Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin car colors Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:23:17 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 31 May, ODyard@aol.com wrote: > I am repainting an offset cupola and a center cupola N6b converted from the > Model Power cheapie. I model 1946. One will be painted with for the Renovo > Division and one for the E&A Division. > What is the correct paint to simulate freight car color of the period? I use > Pollyscale and Modelflex. My guess is to use either Modelflex light Tuscan > ore Pollyscale oxide red but I am not sure. A good mix that I'm using is the ModelFlex light tuscan with a drop or three of orange. I used their GN orange only because I had it. This matches quite closely the color on the Red Caboose X29, which is pretty close to correct as far as I've been able to tell. Did I hedge that enough? :-) Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: New Alco Locomotives Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:47:02 -0400 THIS IS NOT NEW NEWS. ---------- > From: Alan Buchan > To: PRR Talk > Subject: [PRR] FW: New Alco Locomotives > Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 7:31 PM > > > > Okay all you ALCo fans....read on > > New Alcos to be manufactured by....FM! > > Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 10:01 AM > Subject: New Alco Locomotives > > > >Those that thought there should have been more development of the > >ALCO/MLW locomotives take heart. Hume Kading of Railway > >Preservation News Reports: > > > >What caught my attention was that FM has acquired the rights to the ALCo > >251 diesel engine, and now offers new 251s as well as OEM parts and > >service. But, what really got me going was a link on the ALCo engine page > to the ALCo Locomotive Company page! Following that link takes you to a > page that is under construction, but that very much implies there will be > new ALCo diesel locomotives being built. > > > I sent an e-mail to the site specifically asking that question and > >this is the response I got: > > > > FM obtained the manufacturing license to manufacture the ALCO > >engine from General Electric Transportation System, GETS in 1994 and > >moved the Montreal (MLW) facility assets to our factory in Beloit, > >Wisconsin. FM has recently purchased the entire locomotive product line. > >NREC, National Railway Equipment Corporation of southern Illinois > >will manufacture the chassis and main equipment. Globe > >Turbocharger of Nevada will manufacture the ALCO turbochargers. FM will > >manufacture new or remanufacture veteran ALCO diesel engines to new > >FM/ALCO engine specifications. The FM website has a link to our > >FM/ALCO website where you will find more information about that product > line. > > > > Again, the ALCo Locomotive Company page is still under > >construction. But, there it is, there will soon be new ALCos. > > >The web link is: http://www.alcoengine.com > > > >Gary > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: [PRR] Trip Report - NYC to Princeton Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:54 -0700 On my trip back east this weekend, I was able to ride Ex-PRR from NYC to Princeton Jct, and I thought a trip report might be of interrest to some. Forgive me if some of this is old news, as I have not been over this section in about 8 or 10 years. ABS is indeed gone between A tower and Bergen. Rusty brown relay huts appear about every 0.1 mile or so between Bergen and the West River tunnels. A new station is being built between Bergen and Portal. Just west of Bergen, they are installing a new interlocking called Alliance where they will go to 4 tracks. Currently the new track is just unaligned rail on concrete ties with no ballast. Looks like they are building a parking lot on top of the railroad, so it really feels like a snow shed. Go back to 2 tracks to cross the river at Portal. Didn't catch the name but I think it started with an "L". Crossovers at Portal are gone, replaced by high speed crossovers just a little to the west at Swift. (This is old news I'm sure) A few three-light position light signals still survive in this area. Hudson tower still standing Dock tower still standing. Very little has changed here. All signals in Newark station appear to still be 3 light position Hunter tower has been razed and the connection with the old LVRR been reworked. I think most of the switches on the main line have been removed. I think an east bound train can go 1-2 and a west bound can go 3-4, and thats all. A new interlocking has been installed just east of hunter. New crossovers have been added just to the east of Hunter to allow eastbound trains from the LVRR to get from 4 over to 2. They are installing a new airport station between Hunter and Lane. Tracks 5 and 0 west of Hunter have been upgraded to concrete ties as far as this new station. Unclear whether 5 and 0 would connect back with the main to the west. Footings for the eastbound platform is in place. Westbound platform is already in place. Looks like they will connect to airport with a monorail that is already in place between terminals A,B,C and parking lots. New signal bridge is replacing automatics between Hunter and Lane. Signals with bags over them are already in place. Looks like they are installing 261 on all four tracks. Any fans of the Chicago and Eastern Illinois Railroad should check out the pseudo-junkyard immediately west of the Newark Airport Days' Inn Hotel on Rt1. A tractor trailer is sitting there clearly labelled as such. Lane tower has been razed. Looks like tracks 2,3,4 are getting new EB home signals. Signal LB1 at WA is still in place. Hard to tell whether still operational. Elmora has been razed. I think this was done quite some time ago. A small concrete hut, white with grey trim stands in its place. A very distinctive PRR keystone appears above the door. 6 EB home signals. Quite a bit of Conrail activity in the yards west of Linden station. Saw blue unit labelled PRR 6021 in black letterrs on white background just under the cab window. Union tower still standing. Signals right in front of the tower still 3-light position. West end of union is CPL. Lincoln tower still standing. Quite a bit of conrail activity in the yard at Edison. Entrances to mainline still protected by pedistal signals, but intermediate pedistal signals gone. Crossover on main at west end of yard is still there. County tower still standing. Midway tower still standing. Nassau tower still standing. It appears that Amtrak has removed the marker lights on its automatic signals atleast between New Brunswick and Princeton Jct, so that they don't display stop and proceed. Welded rail has been installed from Princeton Jct to Princeton. What a radical improvement. Movements of note: I saw two AEM7 pulling coaches and several baggage cars EB on 3 through P'tonJct. One minute later, Metroliner EB on 2. Our NJT local caught both of them stopped at Midway. Interesting choice of dispatching I must say. The metroliner finally caught up with us again on 2 near County as another metroliner screamed west on 3 and NJT went west on 4. Almost a four-way meet. Three for sure. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] OS Report: CIR201 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:51:07 -0400 News from The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP... CIR201, the Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey CIRCUS TRAIN, has just passed The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP (across the Beaver River from New Brighton, PA), headed WB on Conrail/NS. The remainder of the train's original published schedule is as follows: >LV Conway CIR201 1745 ET Tue 01-Jun >AR Crestline-NS CIR201 0001 ET Wed 02-Jun >LV Crestline-CSX CIR201 0015 ET Wed 02-Jun >AR Buckeye CIR201 0345 ET Wed 02-Jun >LV Buckeye CIR201 0400 ET Wed 02-Jun >AR Cincinnati-CSX CIR201 1000 ET Wed 02-Jun You will probably have to make the necessary adjustments to the above times. The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP is a railfan B&B, similar to The Station Inn/Cresson, PA, located 15 minutes west of Conway Yard in Fallston, PA. Please e-mail me off-list for printed materials and information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:47:57 -0400 From: Don Macaluso Subject: [PRR] PRR TrucTrain Sign Hello All: I've been referred to your list by a fellow member of the "rrdiana" list. I own an original PRR "TrucTrain" sign. It's in relatively good condition, but needs some restoration to the porcelain. Herein lies my problem; I can't seem to find anyone who does this kind of work. I'm hoping that someone here would be able to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, Don Macaluso ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Trip Report - NYC to Princeton From: Michael E Allen Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:29:27 EDT Were you by chance here for our annual bacchanal where the campus is walled off and beer is brought in by the trailer load? I was in a very detailed discussion with a returning alum about where the 0/3 milepost is and why. Obligatory PRR content: At one time Princeton University's reunions were Anheuser Busch's largest single sale annually with the occasional exception of the Indianapolis 500. For the uninitiated this event is a week-long series of beer parties, colloquia, beer parties, athletic contests, beer parties, theater performances, beer parties, et cetera [you get the idea] culminating in the Tuesday Morning [today] commencement. In the days before Penn Central, much of the beer consumed was brought right to the campus in insulated box cars and there were frequently private cars in the station. I do not remember beer cars after the mid-sixties and the last PV I'm certain of was 1992. Since NJT "rationalized" the branch and the station trackage there is no room in town for PVs. [The Busch monopoly on providing the beer seems to have ended with the inability to park their PV.] The mile post metioned above was the nominal end of the branch when the station was in its second location below Blair Tower. The University left it in place and now it serves to ocassionally anchor one of the fences used to keep the revelers in check. MEA ________________________________________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Telephone 609-683-0356 Management Services Telecopier 609-683-0192 Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com W.R Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net On Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:54 -0700 John Cooper writes: >On my trip back east this weekend, I was able to ride Ex-PRR from NYC >to >Princeton Jct, and I thought a trip report might be of interrest to >some. Snipped// //Snipped >John > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:29:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Hi, If you search the PRR_talk archives, you will find a complete description of where the loco is and how to find it. In addition, Rick Stiller posted some photos on a web page a couple years ago...they are at: http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Rick's accompanying text says: "One of the more exciting remnants of the PRR in Western New York is steam locomotive I1sa #4483. According to the builder's plate, #4483 was built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works as #56534 in May of 1923. #4483 currently sits on an old Erie Railroad siding in Hamburg, New York and is the maintained by the Western New York Railway Historical Society. These photos were taken in October '97, so you can see there is a significant amount of work to do if this engine were ever to run again. The boiler jacketing has been removed, presumably to get rid of the asbestos. The main drive rods from the cylinders are missing and the weather has taken its toll. The tender appears in better shape, but notice the ever present I1 tender doghouse is missing. That's because the tender is just a shell. The complete interior has been gutted, no water tank or coal bunker. Hopefully the doghouse is in storage somewhere for future restoration." Happy Rails Bruce >Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go >to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. >Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact >that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that >it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this >monster? > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:24:07 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Kudos - Denholm Howdy y'all! Kudos to our colleague George Pierson! His feature on the Denholm coal warf appears in the latest Railroad Model Craftsman ("A Day at Denholm", RMC, July 1999, pp53-58). To subscribers of prr-talk, these models are familiar, but its great to see them going to a wider audience. Keep up the great work George, and thanks for setting the modeling bar so high for the rest of us !!!!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WSpald3557@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:06:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this monster? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod Hello Basically it is a combination of both the conditions you noted in your mail.....it has been primered in some spots...expecially the tender and the engine itself has not had much work done to it. The drivers are dismantled and it belongs to the Western New York Railway Historical Society. It definitely has NOT been reconditioned in any way. If I get a chance I will get out that way and update the list when I have some time on my hands. Whenever you ask a member of the Society about the locomotive you get the same "when we get the time and the money" answer. Haven't seen it since the fall of 98 so the status has only gone one of 2 ways..it is being worked on or it is just sitting there like it has been for quite awhile. On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 WSpald3557@aol.com wrote: >Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go >to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. >Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact >that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that >it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this >monster? > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > W.J. Semanchuk-Enser Co-Network Admin - Technical Support alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:47:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod In a message dated 6/2/99 8:15:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, WSpald3557@aol.com writes: << Originally there was an I-1 Decapod in Wilmerding, Pa. It was scheduled to go to Strasburg, but that fell through. It was finally towed to New York State. Various stories about its present condition range every where from the fact that it has been painted and reconditioned, to the more dubious report that it is rusting away with drivers dismantled. Does anyone know more about this monster? >> It is under tarps the last I knew. The Pennsylvania Railroad Museum is interested in acquiring this locomotive. They had offered to trade an Erie locomotive for the I but the asking price include more than an even trade even though the Erie would be far more appropriate for the current setting of the I in MHO. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:36:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod 4483 is in Hamburg, NY, behind a hobby shop in an old station. I visited her last summer to get photos and trace some of the piping that could not be seen from photos. It is in relatively good shape, considering it is out in the elements. It had a "recent" coat of paint and the cab had been repaired. The boiler jacket is gone. The drivers are only partly disassembled and those removed parts are in the tender. The smokebox numbers were bright gold, as were the numbers on the cab. The "PENNSYLVANIA" letters on the right side of the tender, which faces the street, were painted over, but not on the left side. The right side builders plate is gone. Rick Stiller has photos of 4483 on his web page at http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551-5926 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:43:02 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Okay gang, I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola shops with a red roof? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 08:40:10 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] E6 tenders Hi All, Seeing as I am now the proud owner of a Bowser E6 Atlantic kit, I had a question about the tender that Bowser sells with the kit. I have often heard comments like "it's the wrong tender", or "it was rarely used with the E6" or "the MDC tender is more accurate" etc. From my research (basically Pennsy Power 1 & 2, and the Rail Classics web site), I find the following basic observations (I hope) 1) The E6 was never stoker equipped, leading to a deck height of 66" throughout its carreer 2) The E6 had several tenders, predominantly classes: 70P66 - no raised coal boards 70P66f - slightly raised coal boards - look like about 9-12" 90P66 - larger tank, noticable higher coal boards - look like around 18-24" So my questions are: Based on photos etc, it appears that the Bowser low side tender is a 70P66 (it should be noted that as sold in the kit, the tender has Kiesel trucks, and should be trucked with Dolphins)...is this correct? What version of the tender is the MDC model? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:10:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 I have just acquired a photograph of this locomotive. Does anyone know where it was stationed? There were 25 built in 1945 and retired between 1953 and 1956. Also a K-4? number 5399 with the top of the smokebox flat on top, very curious. It also has a side plate about 18 inches high with the bottom in line with the bottom of the cab that runs the entire length of the locomotive and turns down approximatelty 30 degrees to meet the pilot in front of the piston housing. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:34:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1 Decapod I had dinner recently at a nice place across from the hobby shop where I-1 4483 resides and had a chance to check up on the old gal to see how winter treated her. Nothing has changed from the original pictures on my web page other than the height of the weeds. Don Harper's report below sums up the engine's current state: << It is in relatively good shape, considering it is out in the elements. It had a "recent" coat of paint and the cab had been repaired. The boiler jacket is gone. The drivers are only partly disassembled and those removed parts are in the tender. The smokebox numbers were bright gold, as were the numbers on the cab. The "PENNSYLVANIA" letters on the right side of the tender, which faces the street, were painted over, but not on the left side. The right side builders plate is gone. >> The right side number plate is, I'm assuming, in the hands of someone from the historical society. They were selling plaster copies of the builder's plate at a recent train show (that's where the image of the builder's plate on my web page came from) that were made from a mold of the original. No updates on any trade rumors or any actual work being done on the engine. I'll try to get an update sometime soon. My web page is in about the same state as the engine, no recent updates. I have some additional pictures of the inside of the cab and some engine detail, so please send me an email if you are looking for any specific part of the engine. Again, in case you missed the address in any of the other messages, it's: http://members.aol.com/rtsiller/PRRinWNY.html Rick Siller (not Stiller) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] P2K GP7's Date: Wed, 2 Jun 99 20:30:35 -0400 From: Jerry I am finally taking my first GP7 out of the box -- #8508 with dynamic brakes. The unit comes with several user-applied parts. I was wondering if all should be applied for the prototypical PRR unit. They are: Extended windows around cab What appear to be "marker stands" for front and rear A grill cover for the rear fan area Sun shades for the side windows Should all of these be applied? How should they be painted? What third party details should be added? (Please supply manufacturer and part number, if possible, as your response will be in the "PRR-Talk" list archive.) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: D&S Hobbies Date: Wed, 2 Jun 99 22:24:50 -0400 From: Jerry Anyone know what happened to Dennis and D&S Hobbies? Dennis was a frequent contributor to this list, but his e-mail is now bouncing back as "unknown user". I just desubscribed him from the list. The shop was at http://www.onerrave.com, which is now dead. Anyone know what fate befell them? While we're on a tangent subject, "Team PRR" is busy looking for aliens via the SETI@home project (http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/). So far our team has 10 members and has put 309 hr 03 min 56.3 sec into the search for life elsewhere... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] P2K GP7's Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:50:18 -0500 Jerry--There apparently is a lack of good photos of PRR GP7's, especially when they first went into service. The best I could come up with were in the Pennsy Diesel Years series. Let me give what I believe to be accurate answers to your questions, but please anyone else jump in. > Extended windows around cab > What appear to be "marker stands" for front and rear > A grill cover for the rear fan area > Sun shades for the side windows > >Should all of these be applied? No. Neither the extended windows nor the "grill cover" (winterization hatch) were not generally used (but remember this is the PRR!) Probably what you are calling "marker stands" are "MU stands" for the multiple unit connections. Of the three types provided, PRR used the one with the single MU connector mounted on the thin support which is probably intended to be a conduit. The type with the larger support for two connectors were used on PRR GP9's. I have not seen the third type, the short MU connector, used. If you look carefully on the bottom side of the end platforms, there are locators for drilling hole to attach the stands. Sun shades of the style included by P2K were used on at least some GP7's. >How should they be painted? DGLE >What third party details should be added? (Please supply manufacturer and >part number, if possible, as your response will be in the "PRR-Talk" list >archive.) Eyebolts: Until the GP7, I have not liked the eyebolts that P2K has used, and I have routinely replaced them with Details Associates 101101. However, these seem to have been improved and are less bulky on the GP7's. Footboards: P2K chose to use the footboard style from EMD's earliest production, with the sloping support to the board itself, without the receptacle to retain the ends of the MU hoses. Unfortunately, I have not seen this style in any PRR photos. These should be replaced to look like the P2K GP9 style. Trim off the existing structure and replace with P2K parts, if you can find them, or Detail Associates 2208. Horn: The horn is mounted in the wrong place and is the wrong type. Remember for PRR the long hood is the front. From the scant photos, I believe on the dynamic brake version the horn could either be just in front of or just behind the dynamic brake fan. For the nondynamic models, just ahead of the rear pair of cooling fans. I have been unable to find a good three-trumpet-all-forward horn in brass for GP's or other PRR applications. I have been using CalScale 316 and grinding off the top two small trumpets. I prefer brass just for the strength of the item. Can anyone on the List offer a better idea? Antennas: Some did, some didn't. CalScale 408. If installing antennas, also use Calscale 457 "Receiver" on top of the short end. MU hoses: The included MU hoses are really puny looking. Detail Associates 1508 look good when installed and placed in the footboard receptacles. Grab Irons: Replace with Detail Associates 2202 drop type or equivalent. Cab Seats: Remove and reinstall facing forward. DCC: Lenz LE103XF decoder is one type which fits after removing the P2K circuit board and is an economical choice. Either retain the P2K 3v. bulbs and use 150 ohm resisters, or use 12v, 30ma bulbs without resisters. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola, FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] **Camden & Amboy South end Canal, Tower and Trestle From: Michael E Allen Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:49:55 EDT Is this still on? MEA On Mon, 3 May 1999 23:28:26 -0400 "Bill Strassner" writes: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >***Since our last Lines East outing ( MG / Trenton and environs south >to = >BOrdentown ) was so informative and entertaining, we cannot wait to = >'mount up' for another tour !!! BO to CB on the C&A ( Heart of the PRR >) = >is being planned for a June departure, between the 11th and 25th. > >This was Real, Factual, Proven and Touchable History of the PRR !!! >Any = >other interested parties are welcome to join us. Thanks to our >resident = >signal experts and historians, maps, diagrams, photos, interlocking = >charts of 'then and now', etc., will be available for this tour >packet, = >also. The 1929 diagram of BO interlocking was fully confirmed by = >physical evidence, which exactly matched the photos from back then >!=20 > >On our last tour ( despite what TVPedro said about 'sliver' not being >a = >railroad term ), we actually found a few ! Our group's MofW expert is >= >anal-yzing them now. We even experienced a 'close encounter' of the = >Conrail kind, luckily NOT on the BO to BD trestle. > >So bring the DEET and the leg-straps and come on out for a PRR day >along = >the Delaware ! Bill > >P.S.: Jerry, might you select a different verb for expressing your = >displeasure with eBay ??? That was not very civil of you....***=20 > >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > >
***Since our last Lines East outing ( MG / Trenton and environs = >south to=20 >BOrdentown ) was so informative and entertaining, we cannot wait to = >'mount up'=20 >for another tour !!! BO to CB on the C&A ( Heart of the PRR ) is = >being=20 >planned for a June departure, between the 11th and 25th.
>
 
>
This was Real, Factual, Proven and Touchable History of the = >PRR !!!=20 >Any other interested parties are welcome to join us. Thanks to our = >resident=20 >signal experts and historians, maps, diagrams, photos, interlocking = >charts of=20 >'then and now', etc., will be available for this tour packet, also. >The = >1929=20 >diagram of BO interlocking was fully confirmed by physical evidence, = >which=20 >exactly matched the photos from back then !
>
 
>
On our last tour ( despite what TVPedro said about 'sliver' not = >being a=20 >railroad term ), we actually found a few !  Our group's MofW >expert = >is=20 >anal-yzing them now. We even experienced a 'close encounter' of >the = >Conrail=20 >kind, luckily NOT on the BO to BD trestle.
>
 
>
So bring the DEET and the leg-straps and come on out for a PRR >day = >along=20 >the Delaware !  Bill
>
 
>
P.S.: Jerry, might you select a different verb for expressing >your=20 >displeasure with eBay ??? That was not very civil of=20 >you....*** 
> >------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE95BC.A501C720-- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >THIS MONTH'S SPONSOR: "Merchandise Service" has IHC GG-1's at 25% off >this month! See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] E6 tenders Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:54:45 -0500 Bruce--I admit that I am picky about tenders, but to my eye, the MDC model looks much more accurate than the Bowser "low side", which to me seems much too tall. 70P66 Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Thu, 03 Jun 99 09:39:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 Harold: I can provide some info on the Q-2 engine. I am not certain about 6199 specifically, but the Q-2 class engines were typically assigned out of Crestline, Ohio and Chicago (59th Street Yard). These long engines were assigned to the Fort Wayne line between Chicago and Conway Yard near Pittsburgh. (Q-2's may have been assigned out of Conway but I am not certian about that). Due to their gigantic dimensions, Q-2's rarely were seen east of Conway primarily due to clearance issues (i.e.: the bridges in downtown Pittsburgh, Horseshoe Curve, etc.) It has been documented that Q-2's did see service on the Panhandle (Chicago - Logansport, IN - Bradford, OH - Columbus) I am not certain on whether Q-2's went to Pittsburh via the Panhandle (via Columbus) or if they went out to Indianapolis and St. Louis. I believe that the Panhandle assignments were not common and the Ft. Wayne Line assignments were more the norm Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Q-2 Number 6199 Author: Hal6963@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/2/99 8:37 PM I have just acquired a photograph of this locomotive. Does anyone know where it was stationed? There were 25 built in 1945 and retired between 1953 and 1956. Also a K-4? number 5399 with the top of the smokebox flat on top, very curious. It also has a side plate about 18 inches high with the bottom in line with the bottom of the cab that runs the entire length of the locomotive and turns down approximatelty 30 degrees to meet the pilot in front of the piston housing. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:12:24 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and X41c boxcars? From Rob Schoenberg's scanned in diagrams, (http://PRR.Railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X41) the dimensions are identical except that the X41c is 1700 lbs. heavier and has another quarter-inch of door opening (but the same distance between doorposts). I might guess that this means loading racks of some sort inside, and that combined with the comment on the diagram that calls the X41 and automobile car, and the X41c just a box car, I might guess that the X41c had parts racks inside. Anybody know? Also, does the lack of panel lines in these diagrams imply welded sides? Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:34:19 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] [Tan]Kit Plans I acquired a Tichy PFE Wood Reefer kit, Class R-40-4, kit #4024 at a club auction. There were no plans. If you have them would appreciate a copy. Contact off list for address/fax number. If you can scan attach and e-mail me I should be able to capture the image (I hope). Thanks. Tom Mahon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:02:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? In a message dated 6/3/99 5:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and X41c boxcars? >> Quoting the Sept 1983 Keystone: "Where the stingers on X41 were 2-9/16x2x1/8 pressed Z sections for the enitre length of the floor,on the X41C the stringers are pressed sections only between the crossbearers, while 3" 6.7 lbs. rolled Z-sections were used betweenthe crossbearers and the end sills. Door openings were slightly different: 14'6-1/4"x 9' 7-1/8" on X41C versus 14'6"x9' 8-1/4" on theX41." So there! Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:54:30 -0400 From: Danny Seymour Subject: [PRR] Re: D&S Dennis is having tech difficulties with his server. Page said he would be back tonight (6-3-99). Dan Seymour ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:45:25 -0400 Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? Later this month I may be railfanning along these lines and would like to get some historical footage. -Josh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] X41 vs X41c? Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 23:27:26 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 3 Jun, Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/3/99 5:12:32 PM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com > writes: > > << Can anybody tell me what the difference was between X41 and > X41c boxcars? >> > > Quoting the Sept 1983 Keystone: > > "Where the stingers on X41 were 2-9/16x2x1/8 pressed Z sections for the > enitre length of the floor,on the X41C the stringers are pressed sections > only between the crossbearers, while 3" 6.7 lbs. rolled Z-sections were used > betweenthe crossbearers and the end sills. Door openings were slightly > different: 14'6-1/4"x 9' 7-1/8" on X41C versus 14'6"x9' 8-1/4" on theX41." Interesting: the diagrams show the same width difference, but the height is given as 9'8-1/4" (X41, same as given) and 9'8-3/8" (X41c, 1-1/4" taller). > So there! Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:20:33 -0400 The FF-2s were painted at Altoona, not Enola and they had brunswick roofs. The red cab roofs were a creature of the steam locomotive era, and to my knowledge not followed after the 1957 demise of the steamers. ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:43 AM > > Okay gang, > > I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently > acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the > only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. > Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola > shops with a red roof? > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: [PRR] Some B&O info Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:00:53 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, Sorry for a question that may be a bit off topic, but can anyone tell me = the Valuation section number (used in the ICC Valuation reports) for the = B&O's line from Butler, PA to Mt. Jewett, PA? Commonly known as the = Northern Sub, it was originally the Pittsburgh & Western. I hope to = access the Valuation maps of this line but will need the section = reference when I visit the National Archives. And there doens't appear = to be a B&O website to help me. Thanks!! George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
 
Sorry for a question that may be a bit off topic, = but can=20 anyone tell me the Valuation section number (used in the ICC Valuation = reports)=20 for the B&O's line from Butler, PA to Mt. Jewett, PA?  Commonly = known=20 as the Northern Sub, it was originally the Pittsburgh & = Western.  I=20 hope to access the Valuation maps of this line but will need the section = reference when I visit the National Archives.  And there doens't = appear to=20 be a B&O website to help me.  Thanks!!
 
George N. Pierson
e-mail:  = george.pierson@trnty.edu
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BEAE60.5E19DFC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:53:14 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Painting FW flat cars Hi all, Just took a quick look at ebay and there is an Alco Models HO FW-1 & FW-2 flat car for sale. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=113033259 The photo of the model shows a VERY odd paint scheme of black or DGLE truck platforms/bolsters, and MOW yellow bodies, with minimal lettering. Is this a real PRR paint scheme for these cars? Or were they, as I always thought, FCC? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:06:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] MOW color What swould be a good paint color for a MOW car back in the 40's and 50's when they were the grey color? I'd like to stick with PollyScale. Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:16:16 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale Coal Warf Hi All, As George points out in his RMC article on Denholm, a nearly identical warf was used at Thorndale. However, this warf was torn down around the time of WWII. Does anyone have a date as to when the warf was removed? Did it coincide with electrification (1938)? After the warf was removed, steamers were still coaled at Thorndale (esp helpers) but using small towers that look an awful lot like sand towers. Any help (especially photos of either the warf or the later coaling towers) would be greatly appreciated! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:00:02 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW color >What swould be a good paint color for a MOW car back in the 40's and 50's >when they were the grey color? I'd like to stick with PollyScale. Joel, I've been very pleased with Polyscale D&H grey. Use it straight for relatively newly painted equipment, and add some reefer white for a more faded look. I use steam power black, also lightened with a drop of reefer white for the black areas. "I don't need no stinkin yellow" Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:37:12 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Bruce, I have encountered a great lack of photographic support for the notion that the FF2's were red-roofed. Photographic evidence suggests they were DGLE overall. I am sure you have looked in all the usual places. The red-roof electric paint job seems to be limited to the time when the FF2's were being replaced by E44's, or am I wrong on this? If so, they may not have bothered to repaint them that way. Or, maybe just one or two got the red roofs. What is the number on the model? Maybe it's a copy of some obscure photo....by the way, since there were only seven, have you seen a photo of the elusive No. 1? I think I've got the other six covered. -- Robert Livingston Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > > Okay gang, > > I apologize, but...this is a NEW red roof question! I have recently > acquired a Custom NJ Brass FF-2 model (#1) which has a red roof. Now, the > only electrics I have seen with red roofs were the DD-1 and B-1 locos. > Does anyone have any evidence that the FF-2 actually emerged from the Enola > shops with a red roof? > > Happy Rails > Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] question On 5-29-99 Don Macaluso wrote...... Hello All: I've been referred to your list by a fellow member of the "rrdiana" list. I own an original PRR "TrucTrain" sign. It's in relatively good condition, but needs some restoration to the porcelain. Herein lies my problem; I can't seem to find anyone who does this kind of work. I'm hoping that someone here would be able to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance, Don Macaluso Hmmmm i have a similar question.....anyone know of anyone or a company that restores passenger conductor hat badges. I have a old Pennsy badge that could use cleaning and some work on the black lettering and red keystone. It looks like some kind of epoxy or special plastic was used. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 18:51:45 -0700 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone saw any books or other info on Spruce Creek area. I know Harold has said he would e-mail me some pics he was going to scan and that will help a lot, but if anyone has any other info, I would certainly appreciate it. What were the tunnel portals like? Also I'm trying to find the new phone number for Fine-N-Scale. I want to check iwth Dick Billings on the N5c caboose he was trying to make. Thanks, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:13:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) In a message dated 99-05-22 02:33:16 EDT, John Cooper wrote: << Subj: RE: [PRR] Dumb Question of the Day Obviously dynamic brakes were introduced with the diesel era. But in theory, the same principle should have been possible in the steam era. Instead of using the expansion of steam in the cylinders to power the drivers, the train's momentum via the drivers could have been used to compress air in the cylinders. Does anyone know if there were any attempts at this type of thing? Maybe the valve work would be too complicated, I don't know. Maybe cooling the cylinders would be a problem. >> Sorry for the slow response, but I've had some semi-elective surgery done, and am just now catching up on the listservers: your question gets one paragraph in Alfred W. Bruce's , New York, W. W. Norton, 1952 (there is a Bonanza Books reprint also out there), p. 268: "Cylinder Compression Brakes" "Cylinder compression brakes were much used prior to prehaps 1900. Atmospheric air as a compression medium was at first often used, but owing to it heating tendency and the sucking in of cinders and hot gases from the smokebox, it was soon discarded in favor of steam vapor. The Le Châtelier water brake was perhaps the best known of these brakes and was applied to many engines operating on heavy grades. This brake consisted of a globe regulating value in a pipe line that admitted hot water from the boiler to the exhaust passages of the cylinders. There it immediately formed a heavy vapor which was drawn into the cylinders by the the suction of the pistons. The reverse lever, which had been set in mid-position, was now gradually moved into back gear until the desired braking power was obtained. "The device was simple and effective but was naturally subject to abuse in operation, and cylinder-head relief valves were fitted whenever it was applied. Its purpose was the same as that of the independent air brake, which is to facilitate train speed control and to assist in relieving the train brake shoes from heat on long grades." Trains Magazine had a technical article some number of years ago on the use of the water brake on D&RGW articulateds: assume that it was written by Robert A. LeMassena, who would be one to know the subject. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 4 Jun 99 22:44:33 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale Coal Warf To the best of my recollection it was still in operation in 1948. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:01:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Spruce Creek has 2 seperate stone portals on the east side. One on the west side with 2 seperate bores spread about 75 feet and joined by a stone portal. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:12:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB In a message dated 99-06-03 19:57:42 EDT, Thomas Trower wrote: << Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? >> Query: what railroad company is "PA&W"??? Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 09:08:46 EDT Subject: [PRR] bp20 sharks Has anyone seen the new models put out by Trainstuff of their BP20 A & B units? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Paul W. Schopp" Subject: Re: [PRR] buildings along the NY&LB Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:32:29 -0400 Bruce: The PA&W would be the Perth Amboy & Woodbridge, a railroad dating to 1855. During the 1860s, this line operated Grice & Long steam cars--a distant ancestor of the Budd RDC! Best, Paul Schopp spanky@voicenet.com ================================================================== Bruce Reynolds wrote: >In a message dated 99-06-03 19:57:42 EDT, Thomas Trower wrote: > ><< Are their any accsessible original PRR and CNJ buildings, stations, >towers and the like along the NY&LB and the PA&W lines in NJ? >> > >Query: what railroad company is "PA&W"??? > >Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Denholm Wharf From: Michael E Allen Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:59:42 EDT Prof. Pierson et alia; Magnificent model and very well done presentation, right down to the subtle inclusion of a triple gauge operations, on the PRR!. Unfortunately, the proofreader/paper grader in me has one nit to pick and it is a nit which, were it to be picked off of a paper turned in by one of my students would result in it being handed back ungraded with the suggestion that he check his side notes. as published: p 58, 2nd column, third para, third line. I can't find it. I have checked every page in the July RMC. If somebody out there will show me where in RMC the track plan is I will write " I will not grade papers without my glasses." one hundred times on my office blackboard. Good job, George mea ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:20:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It is doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been painted following a well weathered model with the GN orange being uncovered or "bleeding" through the DGLE. Just a guess. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] bp20 sharks Date: Sat, 5 Jun 99 20:57:51 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/5/99 9:08 AM, DWa9975062@aol.com (DWa9975062@aol.com) wrote: >Has anyone seen the new models put out by Trainstuff of their BP20 A & B >units? To be fair to members of the list, the poster of the above message "is" Trainstuff! The post certainly follows the parameters of the list, but it would seem deceitful to ask the above question without indicating the "close involvement" with the product. Also, do not confuse the Trainstuff BP20's with the Miracle Castings BP20's which many of us already have. There are entirely different caliber of products, as was discussed several months ago on the list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] FW: Pennsylvania Railroad - Edgemoor Yards Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:13:30 -0400 Hi all, Can anyone help Barbara out? Make sure you send or cc any replies to Barbara at Jhuskey4@aol.com as I don't think she's on the list. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Jhuskey4@aol.com [mailto:Jhuskey4@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:16 AM To: robs@railfan.net Subject: Pennsylvania Railroad Hello, My name is Barbara Huskey and I am asking you for help in locating information in regards to the Pennsylvania Railroad and the Edgemoor Yards. My greatgrandfather, John Cavanaugh was an employee there for almost 45 years. He began working there in 1891 as a switchman, was promoted to car inspector in 1917 and was struck by a train there in 1932...he died several days later. I cannot seem to find anything that deals specifically with the Edgemoor Yards during this time frame. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks, Barbara Huskey jhuskey4@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] Trains and Planes Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:57:48 -0700 I just picked up a copy of a magazine called "Airways". The July issue has an article on the coast to coast train/airplane service created in 1929 by the Pennsylvania Railroad and Transcontinential Air Transport (TAT). It is worth a read if you like airplanes and trains. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Spruce Creek and Fine-N-Scale Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 00:22:35 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 4 Jun, Roger Elliott wrote: > Also I'm trying to find the new phone number for Fine-N-Scale. I want > to check iwth Dick Billings on the N5c caboose he was trying to make. The new FNS contact info is: Fine N-Scale Products 4202 Blue Heron Circle Anacortes, WA 98221-3672 (360)299-4527 ph (360)588-0247 fax Please pass along any info you can. Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 09:16:37 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR First Aid Kit I am looking for a PRR first aid kit, the metal type painted silver with PRR in the keystone. I would like to trade a new CONRAIL first aid kit of the same type, new still in carton with complete contents. PRR should in very good cond. with contents, not alot of scratchs or paint coming off. E-mail off line please so as not to put alot on the PRR-TALK line. Thank you. PKMac1@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 08:28:09 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Hi, Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? Thanks! Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Frank Bagrash wrote: > Hi, > > Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart > PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? My unit has molded plastic (unpainted) sideframes; Does yours not? They're black unpainted molded plastic. The keystones have the wrong shade of red (it's closer to Tuscan than Toluidine). No numbering anywhere on the unit, the only "decoration" is the keystones. Seemed odd to me. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Bill Laird wrote: > Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some > years back? Yeah, but in that case, the box said "no number" or a number (I have an F unit numbered 9501, if i recall, so they did do numbered units as well) This box just claims it's a PRR unit, says nothing about numbered or not. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 18:04:37 -0500 Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some years back? Bill Laird -----Original Message----- From: Derrick J Brashear Cc: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 >On Sun, 6 Jun 1999, Frank Bagrash wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Can anybody comment upon the accuracy of the paint job on the Stewart >> PRR C-628? Are the truck sideframes and underbody painted accurately? > >My unit has molded plastic (unpainted) sideframes; Does yours not? >They're black unpainted molded plastic. The keystones have the wrong shade >of red (it's closer to Tuscan than Toluidine). No numbering anywhere on >the unit, the only "decoration" is the keystones. Seemed odd to me. > >-D > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "bowtrolley" Subject: [PRR] NY & LB Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 00:07:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Long Branch, a good deal of the Jersey Central right of way is still = walkable, if you dont mind alot of weeds and cutting through some = driveways and backyards. Start off near the present NJ transit line, = near "Richards Deli". You will see the Jersey Central grass patch veer = off towards the ocean. You can follow it to Ocean Boulevard, which looks = to me as though most of it was the former RR alignment. At the exact = point where the NY & LB crossed the Jersey Central (nr Richard's Deli), = there is a boarded up, old industrial building. It is not clear if its = rail-related, although it looks like an old powerhouse for something. = Also, there is another long right of way that cuts all the way through = Long Branch, going east- west. This is about 1-1/2 miles "North" of the = NY & LB. I have no idea of what that was, maybe an old interurban line. = It currently has a power line over it, but the rails are clear at the = grade crossings. You can also see another part of the same Jersey Central line in Red = Bank, NJ. On the main drag of the town, there is a large antique center = located in a really old brick industrial building. Along side is the = weed patch right of way, extending quite a distance. Bob D=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In Long Branch, a good deal of the = Jersey=20 Central right of way is still walkable, if you dont mind alot of weeds = and=20 cutting through some driveways and backyards. Start off near the present = NJ=20 transit line, near "Richards Deli". You will see the Jersey = Central=20 grass patch veer off towards the ocean. You can follow it to Ocean = Boulevard,=20 which looks to me as though most of it was the former RR alignment. At = the exact=20 point where the NY & LB crossed the Jersey Central (nr Richard's = Deli),=20 there is a boarded up, old industrial building. It is not clear if its=20 rail-related, although it looks like an old powerhouse for something. = Also,=20 there is another long right of way that cuts all the way through Long = Branch,=20 going east- west. This is about 1-1/2 miles "North" of the NY = &=20 LB. I have no idea of what that was, maybe an old interurban line. It = currently=20 has a power line over it, but the rails are clear at the grade=20 crossings.
 
You can also see another part of the = same Jersey=20 Central line in Red Bank, NJ. On the main drag of the town, there is a = large=20 antique center located in a really old brick industrial building. Along = side is=20 the weed patch right of way, extending quite a distance.
 
Bob = D 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEB079.BE46E080-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart C-628 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 06:20:22 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/6/99 7:03 PM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Did not Stewart do the same no road number trick with their F units some >> years back? > >Yeah, but in that case, the box said "no number" or a number (I have an F >unit numbered 9501, if i recall, so they did do numbered units as well) > >This box just claims it's a PRR unit, says nothing about numbered or not. The C-628's were only offered as "no number", as I found out AFTER I received numerous quantities for my customers. I double checked with my distributor and confirmed this. Sure would be nice if they told you ahead of time! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 03:43:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 ever operated in Ohio" I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 minutes - 75.3 MPH." Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 never operated IN Ohio." Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC fan! Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains and Planes Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:12:58 -0400 I read that article years ago published somewhere else, but I can't remember where. If I find out, I will let y'all know. Bill V. ---------- > From: endeimling@mindspring.com > To: PRR Forum > Subject: [PRR] Trains and Planes > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 10:57 PM > > I just picked up a copy of a magazine called "Airways". The July issue has > an article on the coast to coast train/airplane service created in 1929 by > the Pennsylvania Railroad and Transcontinential Air Transport (TAT). It > is worth a read if you like airplanes and trains. > Gene Deimling > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:08:31 -0400 Either that or he used the blue prints (painting diagrams) for the older electric locos that called for the red roofs. Bill V. ---------- > From: SUVCWORR@aol.com > To: rlivingston01@snet.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Roofs (AGAIN!) > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 5:20 PM > > The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It is > doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been > painted following a well weathered model with the GN orange being uncovered > or "bleeding" through the DGLE. Just a guess. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:14:41 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER I don't know if this will help - but: According to the M.P.229 of 11/1/44, the PRR had a total of 60 active E6s locomotives. (They also had some E3 and E5 types still on the roster along with some K2 and K3's also) Four E6s locomotives where assigned the Fort Wayne Division (1239, 1281, 1649 & 1710). The vast majority where close the Atlantic states (New York, New Jersey, Phia area, and some MD) area, including all the older models. Mr. Stauffer may be correct in stating that no E6s ever operated on a regularly scheduled train in Ohio. The statement might also be made for most of the Lines West States too. I hate to assume anything but it looks like the G, K, M and T's did the all the work west of Harrisburg, except for the Fort Wayne 4. cos wsbcos.com VVA249@aol.com wrote: > On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al > Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 > ever operated in Ohio" > I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following > electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred > Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of > The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at > the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted > heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule > at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 > minutes - 75.3 MPH." > Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing > Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort > Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 > never operated IN Ohio." > Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN > Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate > east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? > Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC > fan! > > Dick Ross > Cleveland > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:06:41 -0400 I am not old enough to remember, but the old timers told me that the early tractor trailer rigs in the days before air brakes used a vacuum braking system on long grades such that if the engine died going down hill it was "over" for the poor trucker! ---------- > From: BBReynolds@aol.com > To: johncoop@microsoft.com; prr-talk@dsop.com > Cc: BBReynolds@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Compression Brakes (was: Dumb Question of the Day) > Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 12:13 AM > > In a message dated 99-05-22 02:33:16 EDT, John Cooper wrote: > > << Subj: RE: [PRR] Dumb Question of the Day > > Obviously dynamic brakes were introduced with the diesel era. But in > theory, the same principle should have been possible in the steam era. > Instead of using the expansion of steam in the cylinders to power the > drivers, the train's momentum via the drivers could have been used to > compress air in the cylinders. Does anyone know if there were any attempts > at this type of thing? Maybe the valve work would be too complicated, I > don't know. Maybe cooling the cylinders would be a problem. > >> > > Sorry for the slow response, but I've had some semi-elective surgery done, > and am just now catching up on the listservers: your question gets one > paragraph in Alfred W. Bruce's Development in the Twentieth > Century>, New York, W. W. Norton, 1952 (there is a Bonanza Books reprint also > out there), p. 268: > > "Cylinder Compression Brakes" > > "Cylinder compression brakes were much used prior to prehaps 1900. Atmospheric > air as a compression medium was at first often used, but owing to it heating > tendency and the sucking in of cinders and hot gases from the smokebox, it > was soon discarded in favor of steam vapor. The Le Châtelier water brake was > perhaps the best known of these brakes and was applied to many engines > operating on heavy grades. This brake consisted of a globe regulating value > in a pipe line that admitted hot water from the boiler to the exhaust > passages of the cylinders. There it immediately formed a heavy vapor which > was drawn into the cylinders by the the suction of the pistons. The reverse > lever, which had been set in mid-position, was > now gradually moved into back gear until the desired braking power was > obtained. > "The device was simple and effective but was naturally subject to abuse in > operation, and cylinder-head relief valves were fitted whenever it was > applied. Its purpose was the same as that of the independent air brake, which > is to facilitate train speed control and to assist in relieving the train > brake shoes from heat on long grades." > > Trains Magazine had a technical article some number of years ago on the use > of the water brake on D&RGW articulateds: assume that it was written by > Robert A. LeMassena, who would be one to know the subject. > > Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:09:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 9:20 AM, ted.andrews@woolpert.com (ted.andrews@woolpert.com) wrote: > It would be nice to prove Al wrong. Although I really like his books and > use them in reference, he has stated some things in them that I think are > broad generalizations that are not accurate. This basically applies to the > PRR Duplexes (T-1, S-1, Q-1, Q-2). Now that Al's credibility has been questioned, I guess we have to resort to Triumph I for accuracy? I, too, enjoy Al's books. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] July TRAINS Magazine Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:02:45 -0400 From: Jerry Not sure how many of you saw it, but the July issue of TRAINS has an article about Pennsy streamliners... I found it particularly informative and was pleased to discover that it the article was actually a prelude to the July release of the book "Pennsy Streamliners: The Blue Ribbon Fleet", by Joe Welsh. Maybe I was sleeping under a rock -- I often do -- but I wasn't aware of this book in the works. Which reminds me, where the heck is "Triumph II"? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Mon, 07 Jun 99 08:20:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Dick: It is true that E-6's did have to pass through Ohio to get to Indiana. But Al might be referring to E-6's assigned to Ohio. Still, I will keep an eye open and inform you if I come across anything. It would be nice to prove Al wrong. Although I really like his books and use them in reference, he has stated some things in them that I think are broad generalizations that are not accurate. This basically applies to the PRR Duplexes (T-1, S-1, Q-1, Q-2). Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Author: VVA249@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/7/99 9:04 AM On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no E-6 ever operated in Ohio" I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run of The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It was, at the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) "supplanted heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam schedule at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles in 98 minutes - 75.3 MPH." Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to Fort Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the E-6 never operated IN Ohio." Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC fan! Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR PHOTO TIME Hello list, Just returned from vacation in Arizona and I am rejoining the list. As many of you know I have been listing PRR Model pics here the last several months. While in AZ. I was able to scan "lots" more from my portfolio. The first of the lot is being posted now. Look for more once a week or so. The first can be seen at: http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/on6b.jpg This is a scan of an O Scale PRR N6B cabin. I like center cupola versions and that is what I built starting with an older Quality Craft Kit. The cupola was built out of Styrene, the rest is mostly stock kit. I am in the process of placing an interrior in it but really haven't had the time and info to do it yet. It is lettered with the shadow keystone and for the Buckeye Region. Although I am mainly an HO scale collector/modeler, the size of O scale can really be impressive. Next week look for a photo that used to pull this and its train. Enjoy the pic! Thanks, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 12:34:47 -0400 From: Jerry Since the PRR only produced two K-5 locomotives, it isn't likely that we're going to see one of these in HO scale in non-brass any time soon. I am evaluating the purchase of a brass unit, and I'd like to request feedback from the group... What all manufacturers made brass K-5s? What were their respective flaws (e.g. incorrect tender) or good points? What eras did they represent? Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:07:26 -0400 From: Jerry Over the weekend I picked up a copy of July's "Railroad Model Craftsman" (which I don't subscribe to). I want to reiterate to everyone what a fantastic job fellow lister George Pierson has done in capturing the essence of the coal wharf at Denholm. Wow! George's layout serves as a reminder to all of us of how great it is to model accurate depictions of the Pennsy. Now, two observations: 1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't Tuscan start in 1952? 2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" cars in the one consist!!! Two minor details in an otherwise wonderful layout... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 14:01:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 1:29 PM, doloris mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: >I can see why you could use one of these. These k5's >worked the Harrisburg-Baltimore run. I have pics of the K5's in >Baltimore and Harrisburg in the 46-50 era, but don't you model the the >52' era in Harrisburg? I'm not sure when they were scrapped, but the K-5 is a "gotta have". I am modeling 1954, but don't we all fudge just a little? ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K5 Options in HO Scale Jerry, Two importers released the K5's. In the mid 70's Westside Models came out with the walschert, (sorry for the spelling) valve gear verson and in the early 90's Key released several versions. Although the Westside was good for its time, you can't beat the workmanship of the Key's. I don't remmember what I was told but there is a flaw on the Key K5's. I think it has something to do with the boiler length or contour. Someone out there may know for sure. The Westside isn't exactly a "blueprint" job either. The price Tag is also another thing to consider. I bought my Westside K5 around 1980. I believe I paid $160.00 for it. Again not bad a price for back then. Today you have to pay $350.00+ to get one. Key's K5 price is somewhere in the neighborhood of $800.00, painted. You have to decide what fits your needs. I couldn't imagine another importer or plastic manufacturer doing another run of these because of the limited interest. If they do I see the $1200.00 price range in the brass market. There is 1400+ Westside K5's out there and who knows how many Key k5's there are. If I were in the market for one today I would go for the Key K5 even though it will cost dearly. I have other Key Locos and they are some of the best "lookers and runners" out there. I can see why you could use one of these. These k5's worked the Harrisburg-Baltimore run. I have pics of the K5's in Baltimore and Harrisburg in the 46-50 era, but don't you model the the 52' era in Harrisburg? These were scrapped in the 52'-53' time period. If I recall correctly, at least one worked the Pittsburgh-Altoona run in the 30's. Didn't they end up out east, (Del., N.J areas) somewhere during there last days? Need more info on that myself!. Thats my 2 cents, I mean 3 cents worth.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:11:19 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] 44-tonners Gentlemen (esp. Bill Volkmer!), I know the GE 44-tonners were used on the docks on the eastern end of the system, but were any used in Erie? -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Jerry wrote: > George's layout serves as a reminder to all of us of how great it is to > model accurate depictions of the Pennsy. > > Now, two observations: [] > 2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" > cars in the one consist!!! Which, if true, would be both 2) and 3), since the gentleman's name was Edgar Allan Poe. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm (long) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 15:47:57 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 3:37 PM, George N Pierson (george.pierson@trnty.edu) wrote: >>1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't >>Tuscan start in 1952? > > >After all the comments about a certain PRR author whose initials are AS, I >hope I've been not been caught out by him, because on p.225 of PENNSY POWER >II he indicates that EP 22's were built between 1950 and 1952. It is my >understanding that they came from the factory in Tuscan 5-stripe but please >correct this if my info is wrong. The EMD E8 may have been built as early as 1950, but the first PRR unit was #5700, built in 1952. Ouch! Caught again! As such, it certainly could have arrived in Tuscan five-stripe. Don't feel bad, George. You can have your 1952-built E8 in 1951, just as I want to have in 1954 a K5 that was scrapped in 1951-53!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm (long) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:37:37 -0500 Hi, all, >Now, two observations: > >1) The layout is 1951 and there were Tuscan five-stripe E7's. Didn't >Tuscan start in 1952? After all the comments about a certain PRR author whose initials are AS, I hope I've been not been caught out by him, because on p.225 of PENNSY POWER II he indicates that EP 22's were built between 1950 and 1952. It is my understanding that they came from the factory in Tuscan 5-stripe but please correct this if my info is wrong. >2) George, George, George!!! There are two back-to-back "Edgar Allen Poe" cars in the one consist!!! Bugger it -- caught red-handed!! Yes, the Pullman conductor on this train will have a jolly time figuring out who gets what space on which car. In reality, I've always had a thing for the heavyweights which were up-graded with AC but I have been too lazy to modify Rivarossi cars so I took the cheap way out. You still saw a lot of modified heavyweights in 1951. BTW I'm anticipating Branchline Trains coming out with their own line of hw Pullmans - if they are half as good as their reefers, we're in for a treat. What I REALLY wanted to show in the consist (although I'd be pushing the envelope for 1951) would be a few dusty FOM cars which had escaped re-painting but we all know why I didn't. > >Two minor details in an otherwise wonderful layout... Thanks to all for the generous comments. RMC did a great job with what I sent them (although they forgot to edit out references to the trackplan which I sent them but they did not use -- see Jerry's website for the whole thing). It's also a good example of how to lie with a camera. I carefully left out all the raw plaster, bare plywood, etc. nearby. And BTW -- PLEASE DO nit-pick what you see. Because alot of what I modeled was based in my interpretation of photos and educated guesswork, I am sure that there are details that I've either over-looked or are wrong. In the interest of accuracy, have at it. Here are the items on which I personally would like further enlightenment: - the overhead crane with the modified Grandt line mine car at the rear of the powerhouse. I've studied many photos of this more-or-less PRR standard crane but am not confident I got it right. What you see is scratch-built. Ditto on the "ash" car. Any help or suggestions for greater accuracy is welcome. - ditto the sand car on the wharf. I know they used something to move the sand around but I've never seen drawings or photos. What you see is a modified Grandt Line push car. More info, anyone? - the later published photos of Denholm show what I've called whitewash on the stone piers of the wharf. My calling them whitewashed is based on a suggestion by a retired railroader I know. It would make sense to make the ends of these piers more visible at night. But does anyone know for sure? Naturally, about 2 months after I finished the model, I was loaned a set of Joe Henry Kline prints of Denholm which showed three areas I'd never seen before and of course the way I modeled it was wrong. The platform with the "ships wheels" etc. and the warming shed is about twice as wide as I modeled it. Second, the sandhouse built on the wharf deck had hinged openings in the wall next to the track. Apparently the sand arrived pretty much as I modeled it and had to be shoveled through these openings into the sandhouse. Not knowing this, the model lacks these openings. BTW I still can't figure out how they loaded raw sand into the sand tower. Anyone know? The last mistake is harder to spot so I'll let Denholm experts see if they can find it. I visited the sight of Denholm in late March and was surprised at how thoroughly the remains have been obliterated. The stone abutements for the wharf (along with the approach fills) remain, but other than that, you'd never know the rest was ever there. The tunnel entrances for the ash conveyor can still be seen but are filled with chunks of concrete rubble to keep fools like me from crawling down. The whole place must have been pretty interesting when steam still ruled the Middle Division. George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:13:25 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs The red roof color scheme is pictured on B1 #4751 in Sunnyside Yard, with the very large helvetica style lettering as found on SD-45's, E44's and other latecomers (san serif, PRR on keystone between center side windows). The roof is definitely painted red and the sides are DGLE. Earlier colors for B1's were the standard gold PENNSYLVANIA with numbered keystone, all DGLE -- nothing mysterious here. Funny thing is, a cursory look at B1 numbers (Staufer) shows none numbered 4751. What gives? The photo is in the NJ International book of electrics locos of several years back. -- Robert Livingston Bill Volkmer wrote: > > Either that or he used the blue prints (painting diagrams) for the older > electric locos that called for the red roofs. > > Bill V. > > ---------- >> The FF2 arrive in '56 and departed in '61 to dead storage at Enola. It > is > > doubtful they were ever painted with red roofs. The model may have been > > painted following a well weathered model with the GN orange being > uncovered > > or "bleeding" through the DGLE. Just a guess. > > > > Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:08:23 -0400 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] Stoker question Gentlemen, The 1945 CT1000C lists a siding in Erie for Standard Stoker Co. Inc. Is this THE Standard Stoker, as in "The H10s was equipped with a Standard stoker"? If so, was this their main facility? How did they operate, & how did they compare with other types? -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 15:39:53 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 2:13 PM, Livingston (rlivingston01@snet.net) wrote: >The red roof color scheme is pictured on B1 #4751 in Sunnyside Yard, >with the very large helvetica style lettering as found on SD-45's, E44's >and other latecomers (san serif, PRR on keystone between center side >windows). The roof is definitely painted red and the sides are DGLE. >Earlier colors for B1's were the standard gold PENNSYLVANIA with >numbered keystone, all DGLE -- nothing mysterious here. Funny thing is, >a cursory look at B1 numbers (Staufer) shows none numbered 4751. What >gives? The photo is in the NJ International book of electrics locos of >several years back. Interesting point about # 4751. I checked the searchable roster on "Keystone Crossings" -- which was compiled by an outside operator -- and the only electric locomotive it has record of with this road number is a P5a modified, built in 1935 and scrapped in 1961. FWIW: The Diesel Roster has no record of any 4751's and the Steam Roster is not yet complete (nor is it publicly available, for that matter). As for the red roofs, I recall seeing numerous red-roofed B-1's...if I recall they were always around Sunnyside Yard. Maybe it was a local thing -- might it have been useful for aerial spotting...perhaps so towers could distinguish a switcher from MP54's and other catenary powered cars? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K5's Jerry, I "fudge" all the time. I don't model any particular era either. I model what I like. From the Yellow Kid to the Aerotrain and from the E-7s to the Q2. I just checked with the book Keystone Steam and Electric by Edson and he states the K5 5698 was dropped from roster in 10-52' and #5699 was dropped oin 9-53. Getting back to certain details on the K5, It looks like the #5698 Tender recieved the common Kiesel trucks/ or Kiesel tender in early 1950. I have a photo dated April 1950 in Baltimore showing this. I believe the 2 HO Scale models I mentioned earlier have that other type, (don't know the term) tender truck. If I remember, Key Models made the as built version of #5698 and the post war version. They also did the #5699 as built version with Caprotti Vave gear. And probably a post war version on that one too with the normal Walchert valve gear....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days at RMOP Date: Mon, 7 Jun 99 14:58:31 -0400 From: Jerry Did anyone attend "Pennsy Days" at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania over this past weekend? If so, anything new to report? I obviously did not make it, despite being invited to the "Meet the Artists" wine & cheese reception following the event on Saturday. Hmmm, real tempting! I understand the indoor Restoration Shop is now in service. That will greatly improve the rate at which restoration work progresses, since they will now be able to work year-round. My next planned visit is late in July -- the wife goes out of town for three days and I get to "brain wash" the offspring!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:48:22 -0400 Don't know of any but there was one at Titusville most of the time. THe 44 tonners became surplus almost the day they were delivered as they were ordered to replace the 0-4-0s one for one. At the end of the first month, they found out that one 44 tonner could replace about 3 0-4-0s but there wasn't much need for the 0-4-0s either, except around the tight curves in Philadelphia and New York where they mounted "bull" couplers on them, (i.e. couplers with no draft gear). They had some of the 44 tonners fitted with mu and at least two had mu on both ends (don't ask me which two, as I don't remember). But they ran three unit sets of the critters between Juniata and South Altoona shops for some time. Bill ---------- > From: Jerry Shickler > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] 44-tonners > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 2:11 PM > > Gentlemen (esp. Bill Volkmer!), > > I know the GE 44-tonners were used on the docks on the eastern end of > the system, but were any used in Erie? > > -- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] PRR 44-tonners at Cleveland Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:49:12 -0400 >Gentlemen (esp. Bill Volkmer!), > >I know the GE 44-tonners were used on the docks on the eastern end of >the system, but were any used in Erie? > >-- >Jerry Shickler >Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: >http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > Don't know about Erie, but I know there was one used for a time in Cleveland. It was really neat to watch it shifting empty quad hoppers just west of the old Cleveland Stadium (east of the Drawbridge and the Whiskey Island Ore Docks). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:19:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER In a message dated 6/7/99 10:23:04 AM EST, wsbcos@cris.com writes: << Four E6s locomotives where assigned the Fort Wayne Division (1239, 1281, 1649 & 1710). The vast majority where close the Atlantic states (New York, New Jersey, Phia area, and some MD) area, including all the older models. Mr. Stauffer may be correct in stating that no E6s ever operated on a regularly scheduled train in Ohio. The statement might also be made for most of the Lines West States too. I hate to assume anything but it looks like the G, K, M and T's did the all the work west of Harrisburg, except for the Fort Wayne 4. cos wsbcos.com >> OK - We've established that four E-6s were assigned to Fort Wayne to "protect" the Westbound "Detroit Arrow" and the eastbound "Chicago Arrow" these trains connected to Detroit via the Wabash - any likelyhood that they ever ran EAST to Crestline ? Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:48:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners Wasn't the real reason for 44 Tonners the fact that some state's "full crew" laws required a fireman on locomotives of 45 tons or more? Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:44:19 -0400 THAT 4751 (the B-1) was a product of the 1965 general renumbering which was done in anticipation of the Penn Central merger. The NYC electrics went into the 4600s, the PRRs in the 4700s and of course the GG-1s remained in the 48 and 4900s. The repainting was done at Sunnyside and they got rid of the Pennsylvania lettering again in anticipation of the merger. Check out Page 15 of Pennsy Electric Years. The 5687 was repainted during the watch of yours truely at Enola before we shipped it to Sunnyside when one of theirs crapped out (for good). The photos at the bottom of pages 13 and 15 show units painted at Sunnyside. The 4700 pictured on pages 19 and 21 were painted again by moi at Enola. The pictures on page 8 of PRR Hudson to Horseshoe show that Sunnyside used whatever paint they had left in the can and whatever size stencils for the numbers that they could find. Oh well, that's what makes model railroading interesting. I have been known to paint a few diesels unconventionally and they are pictured in the various books Pennsy Diesel Years. I always wanted to paint an SW-1 with magnetic stick on lettering for "Renovo Union Station" but the opportunity never presented itself. Bill ---------- > From: Jerry > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 3:39 PM > > On 6/7/99 2:13 PM, Livingston (rlivingston01@snet.net) wrote: > > >The red roof color scheme is pictured on B1 #4751 in Sunnyside Yard, > >with the very large helvetica style lettering as found on SD-45's, E44's > >and other latecomers (san serif, PRR on keystone between center side > >windows). The roof is definitely painted red and the sides are DGLE. > >Earlier colors for B1's were the standard gold PENNSYLVANIA with > >numbered keystone, all DGLE -- nothing mysterious here. Funny thing is, > >a cursory look at B1 numbers (Staufer) shows none numbered 4751. What > >gives? The photo is in the NJ International book of electrics locos of > >several years back. > > Interesting point about # 4751. I checked the searchable roster on > "Keystone Crossings" -- which was compiled by an outside operator -- and > the only electric locomotive it has record of with this road number is a > P5a modified, built in 1935 and scrapped in 1961. > > FWIW: The Diesel Roster has no record of any 4751's and the Steam Roster > is not yet complete (nor is it publicly available, for that matter). > > As for the red roofs, I recall seeing numerous red-roofed B-1's...if I > recall they were always around Sunnyside Yard. Maybe it was a local thing > -- might it have been useful for aerial spotting...perhaps so towers > could distinguish a switcher from MP54's and other catenary powered cars? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:21:57 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs Robert said: >Funny thing is, >a cursory look at B1 numbers (Staufer) shows none numbered 4751. What >gives? The photo is in the NJ International book of electrics locos of >several years back. This is the PC renumbering that occurred prior to the actual merger. Of course, these locos remained in this paint for a while Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:20:54 -0400 (EDT) VVA249@aol.com scribit: > OK - We've established that four E-6s were assigned to Fort Wayne to > "protect" the Westbound "Detroit Arrow" and the eastbound "Chicago Arrow" > these trains connected to Detroit via the Wabash - any likelyhood that they > ever ran EAST to Crestline ? Were they ever borrowed on that same Wabash? They would have operated {IN Ohio} if they ever were, albeit not {IN Ohio ON the Pennsy}. :-) (Just randomly throwing monkey wrenches ...) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:01:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm Jerry Britton writes: << The EMD E8 may have been built as early as 1950, but the first PRR unit was #5700, built in 1952. Ouch! Caught again! As such, it certainly could have arrived in Tuscan five-stripe. >> The original batch of E8s came in DGLE five stripe. There are three photos of the E8s as late as 11/52 (provided the date reference is accurate) in DGLE in the new "Pennsylvania, Standard Railroad of the World" book on pages 124/125. I don't have enough reference material to know when the E8 started arriving in Tuscan. Regarding the RMC article on George Pierson's Denholm, are my eyes getting that bad or is that E8 on page 55 Tuscan single stripe? Rick Siller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:44:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Red [electric] Roofs The "red" roof does indeed appear to be a valid color for electrics assigned to Sunnyside yard. In Pennsy Electric Years by Bill Volkmer, the repainted DD1 (pg 113) Sunnyside assigned, repainted B1 pg 15 (Sunnyside assigned), older paint scheme B1 (pg 71) Sunnyside assigned, B1 (top pg 124) Sunnyside assigned, B1 (bottom pg 124) restored PA Museum Strasburg all have a "red" roof. There is no photographic evidence of electrics assigned anywhere other than Sunnyside yard having red roofs. So the red roof on an FF2 is not correct as far as I can determine. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:20:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] K5's From: Patrick M Egan Key did both K5s in both prewar and postwar versions. I've seen all four at the Rosemont show several years ago, and they may still be available from Key. They certainly are from some dealers. I have the postwar ones. They run nice and look nice. The paint job is nice, too. If somebody out there wants to find a nit to pick, he'll have to work at it. Yeah, I know, the air brakes don't work. The boiler doesn't hold pressure either with that hole in the bottom for the motor. Pat Egan On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:03:11 -0400 (EDT) mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) writes: >Jerry, > > I "fudge" all the time. I don't model any particular era either. I >model what I like. From the Yellow Kid to the Aerotrain and from the >E-7s to the Q2. > I just checked with the book Keystone Steam and Electric by Edson >and he states the K5 5698 was dropped from roster in 10-52' and #5699 >was dropped oin 9-53. > Getting back to certain details on the K5, It looks like the #5698 >Tender recieved the common Kiesel trucks/ or Kiesel tender in early >1950. I have a photo dated April 1950 in Baltimore showing this. I >believe the 2 HO Scale models I mentioned earlier have that other >type, >(don't know the term) tender truck. If I remember, Key Models made the >as built version of #5698 and the post war version. They also did the >#5699 as built version with Caprotti Vave gear. And probably a post >war >version on that one too with the normal Walchert valve gear....Gary > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:05:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners There were also a few used around Pittsburgh. Primarily for street running tracks which were generally switched at night and had tight clearance and curves. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ODyard@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:01:22 EDT Subject: [PRR] Standard Stoker in Erie, Pa Jerry wrote: Subject: Stoker question From: Jerry Shickler Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:08:23 -0400 Gentlemen, The 1945 CT1000C lists a siding in Erie for Standard Stoker Co. Inc. Is this THE Standard Stoker, as in "The H10s was equipped with a Standard stoker"? If so, was this their main facility? How did they operate, & how did they compare with other types? -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm Jerry: My copy of the 1930 Locomotive Cyc has anad for the Standard Stoker Co and I believe it does list Erie as a plant. Don Murphy Recreating Operations on the Renovo Division and E&A Division of the PRR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:37:40 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] K-5 options in HO Hi all and Jerry.... Ok i've never proclaimed to be a K-5 expert...but i have had to do a lot of research on them. Probably more than most PRR modelers as i model the Northern Central in the time frame when they ran and because i built a HO model of one. The time frame given of 1952-53 for the K-5s being scrapped is about right. The 1995 issue of the Keystone with the article on them gives the same dates. This is also about the time the Maryland division was dieselized. So its very likely that the two K-5s stayed in Maryland until they were scrapped. By then they were probably being used on Parkton locals such as K-4 No. 830 was used.(see the book "The story of the Northern Central Rwy") by gunnarson (sp?) I like the older Westside model myself...theres something about it that looks right compared to the Key models. Now as some of you all know. You can build a K-5 from bowser parts if you have the time and patience. I did....one of 5698. Dang Joe Zappa of Liberty was supposed to make and market the thing and to date has'nt. I've even mailed him asking if he'd like to sell it to me if he does'nt put it out. I need one as i model the NC in that time frame. A couple of you guys have even seen the pictures i took of the pilot model i did. If theres anyone who wants the details on how to build one from Bowser parts. Just send me a e-mail and i'll let you know how i did the master for Liberty. You can build 5699 too...but its a bit harder to do. With either engine you have to pay attention to the details as they changed slightly over the years. Particularly 5699. The details give away just about what time frame the engine(s) are running in. The original tender trucks are a four wheel commonweath design. I'll have dig out my sources for anyone who needs to know the PRR truck type. Unless you get some from a Westside or Key model there isn't much out there in the way of correct trucks. There is a HO version of a Allied design that is very close though. The new PRR tender that Bowser has out is the closest i've seen to a later K-5 tender (except for brass). Oh well....i've got a new Bowser I-1s boiler sitting around, an old Penn Line K-4 and some extra M-1a parts....guess i'll build another one some day. You all have fun... Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 20:18:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER In a message dated 6/7/99 6:21:02 PM EST, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Were they ever borrowed on that same Wabash? They would have operated {IN Ohio} if they ever were, albeit not {IN Ohio ON the Pennsy}. :-) >> GOOD THOUGHT Dr Mark - Made me think that I also need to check the fairly recent Keystone - with the article on locos sold to other lines - Were any of the E-6s among the locos sold to the DT&I or other lines that might have operated them in Ohio ? Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:52:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER In a message dated 6/7/99 8:38:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, VVA249@aol.com writes: << Were any of the E-6s among the locos sold to the DT&I or other lines that might have operated them in Ohio ? >> Without looking, I say that the DT&I did buy at least one E-6. After reading the story I remember I was happy that in modeling the short stretch of DT&I between Springfield and South Charleston, in order to have continuous running would also allow me to correctly portray an E-6 and H-9 in Panhandle territory even if it wasn't on the PRR. I think I sold that issue in April at the Lines West Fans Fest. I'll be lettering my PRR E-6 for as an E-7, an updated E-3 used only on Lines Weat and an H-9 as a PRR H-10 since I have yet to see a listing of an H-9 assigned to the Columbus Division. If anyone has knowledge of an H-9 Columbus Division assignment, let me know. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] George Pierson's Denholm Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 06:18:39 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 9:01 PM, RTSILLER@aol.com (RTSILLER@aol.com) wrote: ><< The EMD E8 may have been built as early as 1950, but the first PRR unit > was #5700, built in 1952. Ouch! Caught again! As such, it certainly could > have arrived in Tuscan five-stripe. >> > >The original batch of E8s came in DGLE five stripe. There are three photos >of the E8s as late as 11/52 (provided the date reference is accurate) in >DGLE >in the new "Pennsylvania, Standard Railroad of the World" book on pages >124/125. I don't have enough reference material to know when the E8 started >arriving in Tuscan. > >Regarding the RMC article on George Pierson's Denholm, are my eyes getting >that bad or is that E8 on page 55 Tuscan single stripe? You got me, Rick! I had noted the Tuscan color over the weekend and made my post from memory (bad memory!) while at work. It is, of course, single wide stripe, which would not have appeared until at least 1954. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] July TRAINS Magazine Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 06:20:02 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/7/99 11:59 PM, Bill Laird (blaird@wt.net) wrote: >Will "Merchandise Service" be offering the book? Yes. It's already listed in our eStore and is available for advance reservation. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jerry >To: prr-talk@nm195.netaddress.usa.net >Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 11:20 AM >Subject: [PRR] July TRAINS Magazine > > >>Not sure how many of you saw it, but the July issue of TRAINS has an >>article about Pennsy streamliners... >> >>I found it particularly informative and was pleased to discover that it >>the article was actually a prelude to the July release of the book >>"Pennsy Streamliners: The Blue Ribbon Fleet", by Joe Welsh. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: [PRR] Fw: Denholm and new PRR book Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:35:59 -0500 Hi, all, >The original batch of E8s came in DGLE five stripe. There are three photos of the E8s as late as 11/52 (provided the date reference is accurate) in DGLE in the new "Pennsylvania, Standard Railroad of the World" book on pages 124/125. I don't have enough reference material to know when the E8 started arriving in Tuscan. Thanks - this is helpful. BTW, can anyone give a brief review of the new PRR book? Is it worth the bucks? >Regarding the RMC article on George Pierson's Denholm, are my eyes getting that bad or is that E8 on page 55 Tuscan single stripe? It's a stock five-stripe P2K E-8. All I did was add the trainphone antenna. I'm obviously willing to "flex" my timeframe a bit but not so far as to run single stripes. The printing quality of RMC may be the real culprit. Part of my reason for chosing 1951 is that: a) if I made it any later then I couldn't plausibly run my T1 and I HAVE to be able to run a T1! And even 1951 is a bit late for T1's on the Middle Division; and 2) the narrow gauge part of my layout takes some guidance from the East Broad Top and ET&WNC. The Tweetsie n.g. was done by 1951 and the EBT had only another 5 years to go ( the actual n.g. I'm modeling, the Tuscarora Valley, quit in 1934 but in my ideal basement world, it [like the EBT] survived the Depression), so I can't go much later. George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:22:47 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: [PRR] 44 tonners Good Morning from sweltering NH! Feels like South Jersey in July!! 44 Tonners were also assigned to the PRS-L. Books at home but probably Camden and AC yards as both areas had street track and used 0-4-0's to cover these areas. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:41:30 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER H9s 3493 assigned Southwestern Division-Columbus Division as of 11/1/44 M.P.229. 22 H10s and 6 H6sb. cos wsbcos.com LINESWEST@aol.com wrote: > I'll be lettering my PRR E-6 for as an E-7, an updated E-3 used only > > on Lines Weat and an H-9 as a PRR H-10 since I have yet to see a listing of > an H-9 assigned to the Columbus Division. If anyone has knowledge of an H-9 > Columbus Division assignment, let me know. > > Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] NS Repaints with "PRR" Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 08:22:35 -0400 From: Jerry Today I saw my first Norfolk Southern repaints of Conrail locos with "PRR" placed under the number! My commute takes me alongside the former Northern Central Branch of the PRR, between Mount Wolf and Emigsville, Pa. There are hardly ever trains on the line anymore. When there are, it is usually a short consist with a switcher at each end. Only once did I ever see a "full length" train. Today's consist had two full-sized road diesels (sorry, don't know the modern ones!) at its head, the lead unit featuring the "PRR" marking. She was pulling a dozen or so auto-racks northbound up the grade to Mount Wolf. Sure is good to see those letters on a locomotive! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Tue, 08 Jun 99 08:49:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 44-tonners at Cleveland In Don Ball's book "The Rennsylvania Railroad -- 1940's and 1950's" had a photograph of one on the leads of the Indianapolis Union Station. I do not know why it was there and what it was doing there. It may have been assigned to passenger (switching) duties at the station or freight switching at nearby industries (Indianapolis had stockyards a couple of miles to the west of downtown) So much for my aimless thoughts.... Ted ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] PRR 44-tonners at Cleveland Author: "W. Terry Stuart" at Internet Date: 6/7/99 7:07 PM >Gentlemen (esp. Bill Volkmer!), > >I know the GE 44-tonners were used on the docks on the eastern end of >the system, but were any used in Erie? > >-- >Jerry Shickler >Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: >http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > Don't know about Erie, but I know there was one used for a time in Cleveland. It was really neat to watch it shifting empty quad hoppers just west of the old Cleveland Stadium (east of the Drawbridge and the Whiskey Island Ore Docks). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:37:43 -0400 While we are on the subject of "stokers", anyone care to take a guess on what a "hickory handled stoker was?" (In PRR jargon that is). ---------- > From: ODyard@aol.com > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Standard Stoker in Erie, Pa > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 9:01 PM > > > > Jerry wrote: > > Subject: Stoker question > From: Jerry Shickler > Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:08:23 -0400 > > Gentlemen, > > The 1945 CT1000C lists a siding in Erie for Standard Stoker Co. Inc. > Is this THE Standard Stoker, as in "The H10s was equipped with a > Standard stoker"? If so, was this their main facility? How did they > operate, & how did they compare with other types? > > -- > Jerry Shickler > Visit the PRR P&E and E&P branches web page at: > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > Jerry: > > My copy of the 1930 Locomotive Cyc has anad for the Standard Stoker Co and I > believe it does list Erie as a plant. > > Don Murphy > Recreating Operations on the Renovo Division and E&A Division of the PRR > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:49:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] re: K5 What all manufacturers made brass K-5s? What were their respective flaws (e.g. incorrect tender) or good points? I have one of the Westside K5s. I was not happy with the quality of the brass castings and I replaced a few with CalScale castings. The engine runs nicely, but I had some problems with the rubber coupling between the motor and gear box. Also, the tender pitted on me. I don't know if that was my fault in how I stored it or not, as this is my only brass engine. Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:32:12 -0400 You are correct, but the Pennsy bought diesels to replace steam one for one, hence the "hammerhead" Emporium, the SD-7s at Madison Hill, RS-1 with no mu but steam generator (5906) etc. etc. etc. ---------- > From: VVA249@aol.com > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 5:48 PM > > Wasn't the real reason for 44 Tonners the fact that some state's > "full crew" laws required a fireman on locomotives of 45 tons or more? > Dick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] 3rd Street Bridge/CV Branch/Lemoyne Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 13:22:24 -0400 From: Jerry It was on the news last night that PennDOT (Pennsylvania Department of Transportation) is replacing the Third Street Bridge in Lemoyne. This is the bridge (3rd Street) that crosses the Cumberland Valley Branch line just west of where LEMO tower stood. Just a few feet west of the bridge was a PRR position signal protecting the grade crossing at LEMO. About a year ago it was converted to the NS type signal. All that is left of the CV anymore is one route connecting Mechanicsburg swinging northward to Enola Yard. Gone is the curve heading south on the Nothern Central, the direct line across the Bridge into Harrisburg, and the direct line from Enola south on the NCRy. The bridge is over 50 years old and is very heavily travelled during rush hours...and PennDOT announced that it will be closed through December!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:11:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] NS Repaints with "PRR" Those PRR repaints by NS are scotchlite decals. The numbers, white background and PRR are not painted on. This was done as part of a plan to quickly renumber the locomotives. 50% of the fleet was to be finished by June 1. Doesn't appear they came anywhere near that number. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:13:51 -0500 Hi, all, - >While we are on the subject of "stokers", anyone care to take a guess on >what a "hickory handled stoker was?" (In PRR jargon that is). My guess - a shovel wielded by a fireman! I seem to recall reading somewhere that the PRR management believed that paying a fireman was cheaper than installing mechanical stokers. I guess the fact that the prototype M1 was built w/o a stoker would tend to verify this. George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:48:39 -0400 Mainly reduced shop requirements. This was true for all of the other diesels as well, but because the 44 tonner was so small, there was no place for them to go principally because they had no MU capability. That's why they started installing mu on them for the AltoonaWorks and then (pun intended) they "ran out of steam!" ---------- > From: Dennis Rockwell > To: herzog@icanect.net > Cc: PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners > Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:52 AM > > On 7 Jun, "Bill Volkmer" wrote: > > > they found out that one 44 tonner could replace about 3 0-4-0s > > Was this because of improved traction, reduced shop time, or > both? > > Thanks! > > Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] 44-tonners Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:52:03 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 7 Jun, "Bill Volkmer" wrote: > they found out that one 44 tonner could replace about 3 0-4-0s Was this because of improved traction, reduced shop time, or both? Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:25:58 -0400 Bingo, you got it! ---------- > From: doloris mittner > To: herzog@icanect.net; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers > Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:07 AM > > Would that be the old reliable "Shovel Stoker" for the hand fired PRR > Locomotives? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:26:00 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Greetings to Bill and the group, A shovel and doing it the old fashioned way? Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 10:37 AM 6/8/99 -0400, Bill Volkmer wrote: >While we are on the subject of "stokers", anyone care to take a guess on >what a "hickory handled stoker was?" (In PRR jargon that is). > >---------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] NS Repaints with "PRR" Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 12:21:15 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/8/99 12:11 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >Those PRR repaints by NS are scotchlite decals. The numbers, white >background and PRR are not painted on. This was done as part of a plan to >quickly renumber the locomotives. 50% of the fleet was to be finished by >June 1. Doesn't appear they came anywhere near that number. While what I saw may have been a decal, it was a white "PRR" with a transparent background (showing the CR blue through it) under what appeared to be the existing white number. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:14:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers In a message dated 6/8/99 10:55:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, herzog@icanect.net writes: << While we are on the subject of "stokers", anyone care to take a guess on what a "hickory handled stoker was?" (In PRR jargon that is). >> A shovel. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] 3rd Street Bridge/CV Branch/Lemoyne (Configure your MTA to append @dsop.com when you mail the list locally, or mail as prr-talk@dsop.com instead of prr-talk?) On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Jerry wrote: > It was on the news last night that PennDOT (Pennsylvania Department of > Transportation) is replacing the Third Street Bridge in Lemoyne. Guess I'll have to get some pictures of the bridge on my next trip east. 2 weekends ago I was pleased to see that the old Iron Bridge at the north end of the Enola yard is finally being replaced. Certainly the new one will lack the character of the old, but it'll be nice to have that photo spot back again... to photograph PRR motive power?!? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Fw: Fw: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:53:44 -0400 Here is another "take" on the E-6 in Ohio question. Any models laying around of E-6s with NYC hearlds on them or will the thought of same ban me forever from participating in PRR-talk? ---------- > From: Peter Weiglin > To: herzog@icanect.net > Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 6:41 PM > > Any NYC fan can tell you that the way to Indiana is through Ontario and > Michigan, like the Wolverine. A bit smoky in the Windsor tunnel, but worth it. > The only problem might be the couplers on the NYC and PRR units rejecting each > other at Williamsport. > Peter > > Bill Volkmer wrote: > > > > Al Stauffer- Where is Bill Clinton when you need him? Can you define the > > word "IN?" > > > > Bill V.---------- > > > From: VVA249@aol.com > > > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > > > Subject: [PRR] TAKING ON AL STAUFFER > > > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 3:43 AM > > > > > > On Friday night, in front of witnesses, at our "O" scale club Al > > > Stauffer, author of Pennsy Power 1, 2 and 3 made the statement that "no > > E-6 > > > ever operated in Ohio" > > > I think I can prove him wrong, but not by using HIS books. Following > > > electrification, in the East, E-6s migrated all over the System. Fred > > > Westig's "Apex of the Atlantics" (Kalmbach 1963) Chapter 13 details a run > > of > > > The Detroit Arrow August 12, 1937, between Fort Wayne and Chicago. It > > was, at > > > the time, one of the World's fastest trains. The E-6s (# 1649) > > "supplanted > > > heavier Pacifics" with trains of 5 & 6 cars and was "the first steam > > schedule > > > at better than 75 MPH for over 100 miles: Fort Wayne to Gary, 123 miles > > in 98 > > > minutes - 75.3 MPH." > > > Now Fort Wayne to Chicago is not in Ohio - I knew that, but knowing > > > Pennsy geography I'm pretty sure the Locos passed through Ohio to get to > > Fort > > > Wayne. Al will probably try to "hang his hat" on the word "IN" as in "the > > E-6 > > > never operated IN Ohio." > > > Does anyone on the list have photo or roster info putting an E-6 IN > > > Ohio - If at least one was based in Fort Wayne did it (they) ever operate > > > > > east to Crestline which IS in Ohio? > > > Help me win this one with Al - As everyone knows he's really an NYC > > > fan! > > > > > > Dick Ross > > > Cleveland > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 16:18:58 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers A hickory handle would never be used by the Iron Fireman. That is because the Iron Fireman was the nick name for the mechanical stoker. -- Robert L. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:08:09 EDT Subject: [PRR] Painting a Pennsy N1s Hi Guys, I recently purchased a Gem, N1s. It is unpainted, and I would like to apply a correct paint scheme to it. I am unable to find any (helpful) color photographs of an N1, and was wondering if there would be any variances between it and the normal Pennsy paint job. In particular such things as: the boiler (DGLE?); cab roof and tender deck (oxide red?). Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] 3rd Street Bridge/CV Branch/Lemoyne Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 14:59:53 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/8/99 2:36 PM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >(Configure your MTA to append @dsop.com when you mail the list locally, or >mail as prr-talk@dsop.com instead of prr-talk?) Is the above supposed to mean something to someone? > >On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Jerry wrote: > >> It was on the news last night that PennDOT (Pennsylvania Department of >> Transportation) is replacing the Third Street Bridge in Lemoyne. > >Guess I'll have to get some pictures of the bridge on my next trip east. 2 >weekends ago I was pleased to see that the old Iron Bridge at the north >end of the Enola yard is finally being replaced. Certainly the new one >will lack the character of the old, but it'll be nice to have that photo >spot back again... to photograph PRR motive power?!? Yes, it will be nice to have the bridge back...not only as a photo spot, but to save the long way around -- through the Marysville subway -- to the riverside vantage point below the Rockville Bridge. The Lemoyne Bridge is desperately in need of similar replacement. It'll be interesting to see what they put in, as the north end heads down a quick, steep hill to a traffic light. It's sad to see how little use the CV Branch sees any more. In fact, I haven't actually seen a train on it in years! The rail is shiny, so it must get used fairly often. There's a yard a few miles west of LEMO, at Shiremanstown, that still sees quite a bit of work. There's a lot of industry along that corridor that uses heavy rail service...not to mention that ADM just built a monster of a new facility just of route 581. Between LEMO and Shiremanstown there is nothing. It used to be multi-track with a few storage tracks. Now it's one track and the railroad actually sold off the excess real estate. A skating rink went in at one place, a warehouse at another... Meanwhile the traffic went up on the parallel ex-Reading line. NS is greatly expanding the trailer/roadrailer business via the ex-Reading's Rutherford Yard a few miles east of Harrisburg. Most of that traffic comes in to Harrisburg and heads west on the ex-Conrail line via the interchange by the passenger station. There has been talk of NS taking the south end of Enola -- bare of tracks for over a decade -- and making it a rail-served industrial park. Hmmm. We'll see. Then there's the wide expanse of real estate between the mains at Marysville, where a yard existed until circa 1950s. This is a heavy traffic area with the Rockville Bridge in view. Can anyone say "railfan retirement home"? Put in a big building with 2 floors of assisted living, a giant basement for a dream club layout, and an observation lounge on top. What a concept! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:17:00 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers --On Tue, Jun 8, 1999 11:13 AM -0500 "George N Pierson" wrote: > ... I seem to recall reading > somewhere that the PRR management believed that paying a fireman was > cheaper than installing mechanical stokers. I guess the fact that the > prototype M1 was built w/o a stoker would tend to verify this. > Do I recall correctly from one of Al Stauffer's commentaries on the M1 that _two firemen_ was the "basic issue" expected by the engineering department with a M1? And, of course, even two men couldn't keep the thing fired properly. And, of course, PRR seemed to think that people, in general, were cheaper than technology. Thus the persistence of relatively small motive power, double and triple headed. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 15:30:42 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/8/99 3:17 PM, vck@andrew.cmu.edu (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: >> ... I seem to recall reading >> somewhere that the PRR management believed that paying a fireman was >> cheaper than installing mechanical stokers. I guess the fact that the >> prototype M1 was built w/o a stoker would tend to verify this. >> > >Do I recall correctly from one of Al Stauffer's commentaries on the M1 that >_two firemen_ was the "basic issue" expected by the engineering department >with a M1? And, of course, even two men couldn't keep the thing fired >properly. And, of course, PRR seemed to think that people, in general, were >cheaper than technology. Thus the persistence of relatively small motive >power, double and triple headed. I'm sure hand firing was for safety -- given all those poor fellas falling into the auto-stokers never to be heard from again! ;-) DISCLAIMER: For those who don't know (and for list archive purposes), this is making light of a claim in the book "Triumph I", which members of the list heavily dispute, that numerous firemen lost their lives, having fallen into the auto-stockers on T-1's. We have never found any other source for such a report, and the text in question is full of so many other inaccuracies that we have basically written it off as fiction! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] N1s Painting George, List As Standard practice I use the Painting Guide in a Keystone issue years back. Everything on a Locomotive was painted a certain standard color. The only noticeable differences at all are the different shades of smokebox color, the visible firebox color and the different shades of "Oxide" red on the tender deck and the cab roof. Ofcourse aging paint has a lot to do with that also. An N1 would be no different. I recently sold a Gem N1 that was painted and if you realize how these engines were used, they would show signs of rugged use. The roof color on that N1 was weathered to a dark red/brown affect as was the tender deck. The smoke box and fire box, although graphite in color also was darked by the weathering paint job. You can decide on the weathering, do you want it or not. They recieved periodic shopping just like everything else and would come out nice and shiney. I have tons of photos of N1's and they appear in all kinds of finishes. I have yet to see a color photo of a N1s. There was however a Video showing an N1s runnunig light from Altoona to the west. It had just recieved shopping and it is pretty clean. I think the video was Pennsy Glory Years #3. I am in the same boat as you George, I recently aquired a Westside N1s and that is ready to hit the paint shop one of these days. Ofcourse mine will get the appropriate weathering.......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:27:14 -0400 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] 3rd Street Bridge/CV Branch/Lemoyne --On Tue, Jun 8, 1999 1:22 PM -0400 Jerry wrote: >... All that is left of the CV anymore is one route connecting Mechanicsburg > swinging northward to Enola Yard. Gone is the curve heading south on the > Nothern Central, the direct line across the Bridge into Harrisburg, and > the direct line from Enola south on the NCRy. > Yes, but the northern/eastern end of the CV extends southwest of Mechanicsburg to just south of Carlisle, where an industry (help, Mark) receives covered hoppers. From Pennroad Jct (RDG/PRR connection) in Shippensburg, the CV through Chambersburg to Hagerstown remains as the NS line. South of Hagerstown, CV-controlled Shenandoah Valley RR is still in service under (I think) Winchester & Western to Winchester, VA. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] MOW Colors Bruce, Joel and list Hello, while you are talking about MOW colors and Westerfield Camp cars came into cnversation, I too have built the 8 car set of these. They are EXCELLENT. I have included the addresses where you can view the completed cars. .....Gary http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work3.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work4.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work5.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work6.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work7.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/work8.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:09:28 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MOW color >In a message dated 6/4/1999 1:07:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: > >> I use steam power black, also lightened with a drop of reefer >> white for the black areas. > >Thanks for your input, Bruce, however, what areas are black, the underside of >the equipment? > >Joel Hi Joel, Well, depends on the equipment, but I have been building the westerfield camp cars, and they get a black roof as well as underbody, grabs and elecrtical connectors. Of course, derricks, cranes, pile drivers, and Jordan Spreaders were all black, russel plows are grey with black blades, and roofs (cupola sides were either black or grey depending on the individual car). I'm lead to understand that MOW cabins were painted grey with black underbodies, but I have never seen a photo. Someday when I finish scratchbuilding the N4, it will get that scheme! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:49:08 EDT Subject: [PRR] Hickory Handled Stokers In a message dated 6/8/99 11:34:01 AM EST, george.pierson@trnty.edu writes: << My guess - a shovel wielded by a fireman! I seem to recall reading somewhere that the PRR management believed that paying a fireman was cheaper than installing mechanical stokers. I guess the fact that the prototype M1 was built w/o a stoker would tend to verify this. George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu >> This was true until the Federal Gov't mandated 2 fireman for stokerless locos over a certain size, during the thirties. Because of the Depression, and need for less engines, stokerless locos - mostly L-1s, were the first to go into storage When the war came and locos were reactivated they got stokers very quickly - with so many men going into the services, and the rest into higher paying war production jobs it would have been a manpower issue - as well as economic Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Jerry - List, Just got an update on the renumbering of Conrail/NS Locos. According to an employee at Conway, which is a enginehouse that is doing renumbering, the renumbering of locos has taken a less priority job. At this time he states there must be 150+ relettering tubes setting in the enginehouse yet to be applied to the egines. Things have been going not so smoothly since the June 1st takeover. In fact they shut down for 16 hours last week, What is happenning now to speed things up, NS got permission from either the DOT or the FRA to just add a 4 inch white NS below the current Conrail numbers located on the cab. I heard it takes about an hour to renumber the whole engine using those tube kits. This is to designate NS owned equipment. It looks like NS is also in no hurry to start the repainting of these Locos either. So I imagine we will see Conrail Blue for quite some time. Probably a long time. Jerry, I relayed to this employee what you seen out your way with that transparent thing you saw on a Conrail loco. He has no idea what that is. Maybe another engine house is doing something different? Well thats the latest scoop I hear, can anyone confirm this at other shops?.... Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:51:50 -0500 Historical note: There actually was a company with the name "Iron Fireman" that manufactured stokers. In the late 1950's, while in school, I worked part time as a draftsman drawing boiler installation plans for a large heating and air conditioning firm in Washington, DC. I remember lots of installations for "Iron Fireman" stokers in large commercial boiler applications. Don't know if "Iron Fireman" also produced stokers for steam locomotive applications. Bill Laird -----Original Message----- From: Livingston To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers >A hickory handle would never be used by the Iron Fireman. That is >because the Iron Fireman was the nick name for the mechanical stoker. > -- Robert L. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 20:58:08 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/8/99 8:47 PM, doloris mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > Jerry, I relayed to this employee what you seen out your way with >that transparent thing you saw on a Conrail loco. He has no idea what >that is. Maybe another engine house is doing something different? >Well thats the latest scoop I hear, can anyone confirm this at other >shops?.... Gary I would have assumed it was painted on. It was another lister that said it was a decal with a white background. Since I saw white on blue, my intent was to say that IF it was a decal, it would be a transparent background (or blue background). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] 3rd Street Bridge/CV Branch/Lemoyne Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:21:15 -0400 (EDT) > >... All that is left of the CV anymore is one route connecting > Mechanicsburg > > swinging northward to Enola Yard. Gone is the curve heading south on the > > Nothern Central, the direct line across the Bridge into Harrisburg, and > > the direct line from Enola south on the NCRy. > Yes, but the northern/eastern end of the CV extends southwest of > Mechanicsburg to just south of Carlisle, where an industry (help, Mark) > receives covered hoppers. MP 21, but I don't recall the industry, sorry. >From there, rails are out to about MP 43 ... > From Pennroad Jct (RDG/PRR connection) in > Shippensburg, the CV through Chambersburg to Hagerstown remains as the NS > line. South of Hagerstown, CV-controlled Shenandoah Valley RR is still in > service under (I think) Winchester & Western to Winchester, VA. Um, ahem, SV became the N&W main. CV had its own main to Winchester which is indeed still in service as W&W, only very slightly cut back. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Jerry-List, OK, I miss-read what was put out on the list earlier this morning. I believe these renumbering kits that are in these tubes are some kind of vinyl material with a sticky backing. Before they apply these the workers are supposed to wash the loco so the vinyl sticks to the metal. They maybe doing it this way but it has been witnessed by some people that some of the Locos that were renumbered earlier are running around minus some of the lettering. Looks like they are not sticking like they planned. Maybe, just maybe that is another reason for the new order to apply only the NS lettering. Just a thought out loud.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering On 6-8-99 Mr Mittner wrote.... Things have been going not so smoothly since the June 1st takeover. In fact they shut down for 16 hours last week, Down here in NS land (Norfolk,Va.) the local paper (Va. pilot) has been reporting all along on the merger as the city of Norfolk is greatly affected by anything NS does. It reported that the 16 hour shutdown was planned by NS to help smooth over things for the start-up day. The paper went on to say that in fact NS did run about 60 trains on start-up day. The main reason for the shut down was to help merge some NS-CR computer systems and avoid glitches, which the paper says some minor ones did come up. As i've mentioned, the "PRR" letters on the side of the cab is something that predecessor SOUTHERN used to do to units that were added to the roster thru other mergers and that this is something that has been carried over to this day by NS. Now if only NS would start hauling freights behind electric motive power again....Now that would be news! That and rebuilding the Northern Central to get freights to Harrisburg to avoid part of the northeast corridor. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 9 Jun 99 02:22:24 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Hickory Handled Stokers I don't think they would have rather paid a fireman then pay for a mechanical stocker. They already had to pay him under the union contract and full crew laws. They no doubt want for stokers when it became impossible to fire by hand on larger engins. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 03:57:48 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [prr] Toledo question Last night I was prowling about in the 1923 CT1000. In Toledo, on a branch of the Manufacturers Rwy (Water St. Branch? River Branch? I forget.) I came on a pair of listings for The White Star Line. Wasn't the company which owned RMS Titanic The White Star Line? I'm puzzled. I suppose there could be two companies, one on the Great Lakes, the other ocean-going, using the same name, but it would seem odd, at least to me. Perhaps after the Titanic fiasco The White Star Line went out of business, leaving the name up for grabs. Anyone know what the story is? === Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: Listmaster Change of Policy Date: Wed, 9 Jun 99 06:20:37 -0400 From: Jerry I am changing my policy about desubscribing accounts that bounce messages back to the listserv. Previously, I only desubscribed accounts that were returning "unknown user" or "unknown server". These usually indicated that a subscriber changed ISP's or jobs, or had their own domain and it was shut down. I was not desubscribing folks who were returning "user is over their quota" or "out of disk space". I figured folks were on vacation and their account would start accepting mail again once they return. When this happens, my server tries to send each message once an hour for 24 hours. If it cannot get through, it generates a bounce message to me, the listmaster. Each day I have to sort through 100 or so bounce messages to separate "real" bounces (the first type) from the "over quota" messages. It has gotten quite out of hand... My new policy, to be applied at my discretion, will be to also desubscribe folks who are over their disk quotas. They will be free to resubscribe, but they are subject to getting "axed" any time their account rejects messages for "space" reasons. Who does this affect? Could be anyone, but must corporate users or users with "traditional" ISP's have unlimited or more than enough space. The most frequent offenders are those with "non-traditional" or "free" e-mail accounts: YAHOO.COM, JUNO.COM, and WEBTV.COM. This is my last measure short of forbidding subscribers from these domains. Thank you for your cooperation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:54:57 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Original "Coast to Coast" tenders Hi all, I've been slowly working away at the tender web page, and to add to the information, Gary Mittner provided photo documentation for each of the 10 K4 locomotives originally equipped with these tenders (1930's) . I have listed that info below for your perusal. It was my casual understanding from a passing reference in the Keystone that six of these tenders were 21,000 gallons and four were 25,000 gallons. The photo evidence appears to bear that out. Hopefully, I will be adding links to these photos in the tender pages shortly. Please correct as you see fit. #3772, 250P75, riveted #5341, 210P75, riveted #5365, 210P75, riveted #5385, 210P75, riveted #5422, 210P75, riveted #5432, 210P75, riveted #5442, 210P75, riveted #5453, 250P75, riveted * very first K4 to have one attached #5493, 250P75, welded #5495, 250P75, riveted Happy rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:19:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] DJ Tower Subj: Re:DJ tower Date: 6/2/99 7:30:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: BudPCCRR To: jerry@dsop.com I am looking for additional info on DJ tower (Duff Junction). It was located at one end of the Scully Yards (Panhandle Div.) at the junction with the P.C.&Y. I have PRR's Golden Triangle by Kobus and Consoli and Building of the Panhandle by Howell. So far all I know is that it was a block tower. Any and all additional info would be appreciated. Thanks, Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 08:41:55 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers "Iron Fireman" was also a trade mark/name for a line of household automatic coal stokers that lasted at least into the 1940's. I seem to remember advertisements in Popular Science Magazine. A friend in New York had one in his house until the 1960's. Steve Bartlett Livingston wrote: > > A hickory handle would never be used by the Iron Fireman. That is > because the Iron Fireman was the nick name for the mechanical stoker. > -- Robert L. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR]: GE 44 Tonners Date: Wed, 9 Jun 99 11:24:21 -0400 From: Jerry All this talk of 44 tonners has me thinking... Anyone have evidence that one of these ever worked the Harrisburg area in the 1950's? I know that B-1 "Rats" did most of the passenger switching, but photos confirm that catenary did not extend into the REA and freight house areas. So, the south/east end of the station had to have steam and/or diesel power for switching. I recall that at some point there was a VOxxx assigned...forget which version...perhaps the VO660 (Class BS6). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [prr] Toledo question Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:23:56 -0400 (EDT) > But don't forget about the Mississippi River system. That does open to > the ocean and it does reach into Ohio. The same White Star Line could > have owned ocean-going freighters to New Orleans and a fleet of barges > for the Ole Miss! And the Mississippi, via the Ohio, and the Maumee & Miami canal (if I have the order right), reaches to Toledo. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:44:53 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] The elusive #1 (was Red Roofs) Robert Livingston wrote: >I have encountered a great lack of photographic support for the notion >that the FF2's were red-roofed. Photographic evidence suggests they >were DGLE overall. I am sure you have looked in all the usual places. >The red-roof electric paint job seems to be limited to the time when the >FF2's were being replaced by E44's, or am I wrong on this? If so, they >may not have bothered to repaint them that way. Or, maybe just one or >two got the red roofs. What is the number on the model? Maybe it's a >copy of some obscure photo....by the way, since there were only seven, >have you seen a photo of the elusive No. 1? I think I've got the other >six covered. Ah, the elusive #1...you know, for a loco numbered as the ultimate number, there just aren't that many photos of #1!!! However, I know of at least one, and it is COLOR! the Keystone, Volume 27, number 4, Winter 1994, page 13, in Fred Abendschein's wonderful article on the A&S (upon which 1/2 my layout planning is based!) shows #1 shoving a hopper train in January 1958. The photo credit is James Schuman. The photo has an overall yellow/red tint to it, possible because of a low sun angle, or the age of the photo, however, there are some notable features. The most significant among these are that the loco body is relatively clean, and that the roof is NOT red, but that it is a different color (apparently black) from the body. The difference may also be explained by a diference in texture as the loco body is has some gloss still on it while the roof is clearly a flat finish. The model is of #1, and I will simply paint over the roof with steam power black. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:39:41 -0400 (EDT) bubbles@visi.net scribit: > Now if only NS would start hauling freights behind electric > motive power again....Now that would be news! One h&**&^ of a lot of copper would have to go back up! > That and rebuilding the Northern Central to get freights to > Harrisburg to avoid part of the northeast corridor. Can't be rebuilt. Would have to be _redesigned_. And doubtless money matters would dictate that NEC to Port Road would be used. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [prr] Toledo question Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:34:42 -0400 The St. Lawrence Seaway opened in the late 1950s. ---------- > From: Jerry > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [prr] Toledo question > Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 9:30 AM > > On 6/9/99 6:57 AM, robert netzlof (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: > > >Last night I was prowling about in the 1923 CT1000. > >In Toledo, on a branch of the Manufacturers Rwy > >(Water St. Branch? River Branch? I forget.) I came on > >a pair of listings for The White Star Line. > > > >Wasn't the company which owned RMS Titanic The White > >Star Line? I'm puzzled. I suppose there could be two > >companies, one on the Great Lakes, the other > >ocean-going, using the same name, but it would seem > >odd, at least to me. > > I'm not saying one way or the other, but there's no reason it couldn't be > the same company. > > I'm not sure if the St. Lawrence Seaway was yet open in 1923 or not. If > not, it would be less plausible that it is the same company, though it > could be. > > But don't forget about the Mississippi River system. That does open to > the ocean and it does reach into Ohio. The same White Star Line could > have owned ocean-going freighters to New Orleans and a fleet of barges > for the Ole Miss! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:31:42 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Camp Cars..was MOW Colors >Bruce, Joel and list > > Hello, while you are talking about MOW colors and Westerfield Camp >cars came into cnversation, I too have built the 8 car set of these. >They are EXCELLENT. I have included the addresses where you can view the >completed cars. .....Gary Gary, Very nice, as always...I hate to admit it, but I've only finished one of the cars, the cable car. A pleasant surprise when I read the car descriptions in the kits was that the PRR had specified certain make ups for certain types of work trains and that I could split the cars 4 and 4 for a wreck train (along with a Bowser tender, sunshine FM flat and Tichy Derrick) and a wire train (along with a westerfield gon, and 2 Railworks FM tower cars - reserve now with Merchandise Service!). This way, I'll have 2 MOW trains. I'll probably assign an L1s to the wreck train, and an E6 to the wire train (I need an E3 for the Thorndale wire train, but somethings may get fudged a little ) Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:23:49 -0400 Watch the news section of the Conrail Technical Society web site for the latest info on the renumbering progress. Bill ---------- > From: doloris mittner > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering > Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 8:47 PM > > Jerry - List, > > Just got an update on the renumbering of Conrail/NS Locos. > According to an employee at Conway, which is a enginehouse that is doing > renumbering, the renumbering of locos has taken a less priority job. At > this time he states there must be 150+ relettering tubes setting in the > enginehouse yet to be applied to the egines. Things have been going not > so smoothly since the June 1st takeover. In fact they shut down for 16 > hours last week, What is happenning now to speed things up, NS got > permission from either the DOT or the FRA to just add a 4 inch white NS > below the current Conrail numbers located on the cab. I heard it takes > about an hour to renumber the whole engine using those tube kits. This > is to designate NS owned equipment. It looks like NS is also in no hurry > to start the repainting of these Locos either. So I imagine we will see > Conrail Blue for quite some time. Probably a long time. > Jerry, I relayed to this employee what you seen out your way with > that transparent thing you saw on a Conrail loco. He has no idea what > that is. Maybe another engine house is doing something different? > Well thats the latest scoop I hear, can anyone confirm this at other > shops?.... Gary > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [prr] Toledo question Date: Wed, 9 Jun 99 09:30:28 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/9/99 6:57 AM, robert netzlof (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: >Last night I was prowling about in the 1923 CT1000. >In Toledo, on a branch of the Manufacturers Rwy >(Water St. Branch? River Branch? I forget.) I came on >a pair of listings for The White Star Line. > >Wasn't the company which owned RMS Titanic The White >Star Line? I'm puzzled. I suppose there could be two >companies, one on the Great Lakes, the other >ocean-going, using the same name, but it would seem >odd, at least to me. I'm not saying one way or the other, but there's no reason it couldn't be the same company. I'm not sure if the St. Lawrence Seaway was yet open in 1923 or not. If not, it would be less plausible that it is the same company, though it could be. But don't forget about the Mississippi River system. That does open to the ocean and it does reach into Ohio. The same White Star Line could have owned ocean-going freighters to New Orleans and a fleet of barges for the Ole Miss! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Just as a side bar to this.....in my grandmothers house here in Buffalo, MY she had an Iron Fireman oil fired furnace. I thought the name was funny that is why I remember it. Not attempting to take the thread off topic just passing along some related info. The house was old enough that the furnace may have been converted from coal to oil burning. On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Bill Laird wrote: >Historical note: There actually was a company with the name "Iron Fireman" >that manufactured stokers. In the late 1950's, while in school, I worked >part time as a draftsman drawing boiler installation plans for a large >heating and air conditioning firm in Washington, DC. I remember lots of >installations for "Iron Fireman" stokers in large commercial boiler >applications. Don't know if "Iron Fireman" also produced stokers for steam >locomotive applications. > >Bill Laird > >-----Original Message----- >From: Livingston >To: PRR-talk@dsop.com >Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 3:45 PM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers > > >>A hickory handle would never be used by the Iron Fireman. That is >>because the Iron Fireman was the nick name for the mechanical stoker. >> -- Robert L. >> > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > W.J. Semanchuk-Enser Co-Network Admin - Technical Support alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Conrail/NS Numbering Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:48:26 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 9 Jun, Mark Bej wrote: > bubbles@visi.net scribit: > > Now if only NS would start hauling freights behind electric > > motive power again....Now that would be news! > > One h&**&^ of a lot of copper would have to go back up! Not necessarily! IMHO, the NEC would be perfect for hauling RoadRailers (lightweight, fast) between DC, Hbg, and Boston, all under wire. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:22:20 EDT Subject: [PRR] ebay bidding closing DGLE Proto 2000 PRR E7B - N.I.B. - Bidding's about to close on this DGLE.Proto 2000 PRR E7B - N.I.B. - item #112460402 I'd like to pass on it. If you bid $50.01, it's yours. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trains and Planes Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:16:51 -0400 There's one or two issues of the Pennsy's Information newsletter dealing with the formation of TAT. I have some of them online on my web site. Check out http://prr.railfan.net/documents Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of > endeimling@mindspring.com > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 1999 10:58 PM > To: PRR Forum > Subject: [PRR] Trains and Planes > > > I just picked up a copy of a magazine called "Airways". The > July issue has > an article on the coast to coast train/airplane service created > in 1929 by > the Pennsylvania Railroad and Transcontinential Air Transport (TAT). It > is worth a read if you like airplanes and trains. > Gene Deimling > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: pennsy@keystone.alphalink.com.au (Mick Molloy) Subject: [PRR] (Sort of TAN) Australian Visitor Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:43:15 GMT Hi everyone, A mate of mine will be visiting the USA in a few weeks. He has an advanced case of "SPFitis". However he is only just arranging to get onto the net now. I have previously explained about the PRRTalk group and he has expressed an interest in meeting some of you. His trip is a mixture of business and holiday. I do not yet have his itinery but he will be mostly on the eastern seaboard, with a trip to Florida for business. If anyone could see his or her way clear to meet him please contact me off list and I will arrange a direct contact. Thanks, Mick Molloy (Claims of being the most southernly SPF!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:20:59 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [prr] Toledo question, revised/expanded Regarding 1923 CT1000 mention of The White Star Line in Toledo: I've turned up some things I hadn't known. The White Star Line (the salt-water one) was owned by, or was owned by a company owned by, J. P. Morgan. Hence, it was not the purely British firm I had thought. The White Star Line remained in business under that name until sometime in the 1930's, when it merged into Cunard. I found a reference, in the context of Great Lakes shipping, to a White Star Line which had an office in Detroit. (Operators of a boat/ship Tashimoo or some such, which misbehaved spectacularly sometime in the past). So it seems a little more plausible that there was only one White Star Line which operated both on salt and fresh water, but I still don't have much faith in that idea. My question is, "Was The White Star Line which operated on the Great Lakes in the 1920's connected in any way with The White Star Line which operated RMS Titanic?" Before I forget, the CT1000 is a publication of the Pennsylvania Railroad as you all know, but I had to mention The Name somewhere, didn't I? === Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] The elusive #1 (was Red Roofs) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:59:30 -0400 I would hazard a guess and say that the (advent of the) GG-1 was the downfall of the red roof (idea) on the electric locomotives. ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] The elusive #1 (was Red Roofs) > Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 9:44 AM > > Robert Livingston wrote: > > >I have encountered a great lack of photographic support for the notion > >that the FF2's were red-roofed. Photographic evidence suggests they > >were DGLE overall. I am sure you have looked in all the usual places. > >The red-roof electric paint job seems to be limited to the time when the > >FF2's were being replaced by E44's, or am I wrong on this? If so, they > >may not have bothered to repaint them that way. Or, maybe just one or > >two got the red roofs. What is the number on the model? Maybe it's a > >copy of some obscure photo....by the way, since there were only seven, > >have you seen a photo of the elusive No. 1? I think I've got the other > >six covered. > > Ah, the elusive #1...you know, for a loco numbered as the ultimate number, > there just aren't that many photos of #1!!! However, I know of at least > one, and it is COLOR! the Keystone, Volume 27, number 4, Winter 1994, page > 13, in Fred Abendschein's wonderful article on the A&S (upon which 1/2 my > layout planning is based!) shows #1 shoving a hopper train in January 1958. > The photo credit is James Schuman. The photo has an overall yellow/red > tint to it, possible because of a low sun angle, or the age of the photo, > however, there are some notable features. The most significant among these > are that the loco body is relatively clean, and that the roof is NOT red, > but that it is a different color (apparently black) from the body. The > difference may also be explained by a diference in texture as the loco body > is has some gloss still on it while the roof is clearly a flat finish. > > The model is of #1, and I will simply paint over the roof with steam power > black. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRR]: GE 44 Tonners Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:57:28 -0400 The most famous PRR 44 tonner of them all worked in Harrisburg, the 9331, now the Strasburg 9331. I used to send my one boilermaker down there (from Enola) once a month to "boilerwash" the 9331 and the Ex- Reading camelback they operated at the time plus the 31 0-6-0. There was another one that worked at Harrisburg steel which i shot, but I can't remember the number. Either 9336 or 9356. I will have to get out the slide. I couldn't run it in Pennsy Diesel Years because it was backlit. Bill V. ---------- > From: Jerry > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR]: GE 44 Tonners > Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 11:24 AM > > All this talk of 44 tonners has me thinking... > > Anyone have evidence that one of these ever worked the Harrisburg area in > the 1950's? > > I know that B-1 "Rats" did most of the passenger switching, but photos > confirm that catenary did not extend into the REA and freight house > areas. So, the south/east end of the station had to have steam and/or > diesel power for switching. I recall that at some point there was a VOxxx > assigned...forget which version...perhaps the VO660 (Class BS6). > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:42:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Hickory Handled Stokers Yea, A well polished shovel! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:26:06 -0400 From: John W Rosenbauer Subject: Re: [prr] Toledo question, revised/expanded robert netzlof wrote: > > Regarding 1923 CT1000 mention of The White Star Line > in Toledo: > SNIP > > I found a reference, in the context of Great Lakes > shipping, to a White Star Line which had an office in > Detroit. (Operators of a boat/ship Tashimoo or some > such, which misbehaved spectacularly sometime in the > past). > Actually Tashmoo acquitted herself honorably. On 18-Jun-36 homeward bound in the Sugar Island channel of the Detroit River she hit an obstruction and began taking water rapidly. The Captain gave orders to steam full speed for the nearest dock and the engine room crew stayed at their posts in the race to Amherstburg, 10 minutes away. She went down at the dock in 25 feet of water AFTER all 1,500 passengers were safely on shore. Have fun, J.W.Rosenbauer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Original "Coast to Coast" tenders Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:18:38 -0500 Bruce--The welded tender you listed with 5493 caught my eye. Maybe that is the odd tender which found its way to M1 6940 shown in Sunbury on page 106 of Don Wood's "I Remember Pennsy." Whenever I have seen that photo I wonder about that tender. Once again, so much for the Standard! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL >#3772, 250P75, riveted >#5341, 210P75, riveted >#5365, 210P75, riveted >#5385, 210P75, riveted >#5422, 210P75, riveted >#5432, 210P75, riveted >#5442, 210P75, riveted >#5453, 250P75, riveted * very first K4 to have one attached >#5493, 250P75, welded >#5495, 250P75, riveted > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Need Help With Math! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 99 10:52:07 -0400 From: Jerry Okay folks, I know there are a few academians out there, so here's your chance to shine...for some reason, my mind keeps fogging as I try to do this calculation: I just received a valuation map (* see below) that is drawn to the scale of 1" = 100'. I want to scan this map in and then print out portions of it at full HO scale...12" = 87'. I am having trouble figuring out the formula for what percentage by which to scale the original to. Can anyone help on this? Here's my train of thought: First, enlarge the scan to 114.94% of its original size. I got this figure by taking 100/.87=114.94252873563. This is basically converting the original scale of 1"=100' to 1"=87'. Second, enlarge the scan to 1200% of the result from step one. This would convert 1"=87' to 12"=87' or 1'=87'. Is this thinking sound? My goal is to print out building footprints and other key locations on my A2-size printer (posters) so I can lay them on the floor of my train room and find an arrangement that works. I will have to do some selective compression, but most of what I need to reduce will come out of the steam arrival/departure yards -- these were very long and since steam was all but gone i nlate 1954, I will cut a lot from there. * Craig Bowman, a lister from California, visited me for a few hours last night. He loaned me, for scanning, a PRR valuation map from Harrisburg, from midpoing in the Harrisburg Yard eastbound to about where the coal wharf was. This shows the exact locations and sizes of all of the locomotive facilities that I plan to model! This map goes hand-in-hand with the one I already have of the passenger station itself -- from roughly State Street east to Dock Street. (There is a very short distance missing between the two charts.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:27:15 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [prr] Toledo/White Star Line/Tashmoo (longish) Well, reading the PRR CT1000 certainly can lead one down some odd paths. The "spectacular misbehavior" of the steamer Tashmoo came from a web site I visited in attempting to run down "White Star Line" and "Great Lakes". The URL is http://www.detnews.com/history/tashmoo/tashmoo.htm (I wonder, will this summer's blockbuster be "Tashmoo", starring Leonardo DiCaprio, songs by Celine Dione, with computer generated images of the Belle Isle bridge?) Hank, I saw your e-mail after I had sent "Toledo revised/expanded". Didn't want you to think I had taken your info and put it out as mine. In summary, then: I had thought that since the ocean-going White Star Line was a UK business, there was a chance that The Rinky-Dink Steamship and Navigation Co. of Duluth could tip-toe through some difference between US and UK law, or count on British ignorance of matters in the American hinterland, and use the name. But, with J. P. Morgan sitting at the helm of the real White Star Line, I doubt that that could have happened. I think I now know more about The White Star Line and RMS Titanic than I ever wanted to know. (No, I haven't seen the movie and don't intend to.) It still strikes me as odd to find the name of a big-time oceanic steamship line popping up in Toledo. Well, it wouldn't be odd to have an office or a ticket agent, but the original references were in "List of Stations and Sidings", which suggests something more substantial than a clerk selling tickets in a downtown store front. But perhaps it was the same company. I doubt that there were any White Star sailings "Liverpool to Toledo, via Cherbourg, New Orleans, Cairo, Cincinnati, and Dayton". However there is no need for the affairs of any one company to be one homogeneous whole. Around the time in question, Canadian Pacific owned a substantial slice of the Miteleuropa sleeping car company and operated a passenger train between Trieste and Innsbruck. Both rather far removed from the original "keep British Columbia from becoming a state at any cost" purpose, and rather isolated geographically from all those grain elevators in the prairie provinces. So, given that people navigated the Great Lakes, and given that The White Star Line was in the navigation business, why not get into the Great Lakes? I've not come up with anything in the history of the WSL to suggest that they did, but most of the material I've found gets so hung up on RMS Titanic that lots of lesser issues could get lost. (In passing, someone has a Web site devoted to the thesis that since there was a late 19th century short story in which the steamship Titan perished by striking an iceberg in April while sailing from Liverpool to New York and blah, blah, blah; it follows that the sinking of Titanic was a work of Satan and more blah, blah, blah. Curious world in which we live, what?) === Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] BP 20 Sharks Date: Thu, 10 Jun 99 10:17:09 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/10/99 9:05 AM, walt prusick (walpru@stargate.net) wrote: >A local (Pittsburgh) hobby shop had them about 2-3 months ago. Gave them a >quick once-over. They looked very nice (train phones, opaque finish, ect) >but I didn't have the owner show me their guts. He did say that they have >one whale of a pulling capability. But we have all heard that before. >The price for either an A or B unit was as I recall $100 + -. I do not >know if Bud has any left. I may have missed the beginning of this thread...what brand are we talking about? The timeframe and price suggests that these might be the Miracle Castings units. A.B. Charles in Pittsburgh is/was a dealer for MC, as am I. The retail is $99 per unit, though they can be had for less. They are now readily available. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "walt prusick" Subject: [PRR] BP 20 Sharks Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:05:01 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEB320.54930840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A local (Pittsburgh) hobby shop had them about 2-3 months ago. Gave them = a quick once-over. They looked very nice (train phones, opaque finish, = ect) but I didn't have the owner show me their guts. He did say that = they have one whale of a pulling capability. But we have all heard that = before. The price for either an A or B unit was as I recall $100 + -. = I do not know if Bud has any left. Pru ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEB320.54930840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A local (Pittsburgh) hobby shop had them about 2-3 = months ago.=20 Gave them a quick once-over.  They looked very nice (train = phones,=20 opaque finish, ect) but I didn't have the owner show me their = guts.  He did=20 say that they have one whale of a pulling capability.  But we have = all=20 heard that before.  The price for either an A or B unit was as I = recall=20 $100 + -.  I do not know if Bud has any left.
 
Pru
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BEB320.54930840-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Brass Pilot??? List, This question goes out to the modelers on this list which I believe are many. I started fiddleling with a pair of my Oriental PRR E-8s A-A units. When I get around to painting these I plan on giving them the DGLE in their as delivered livery. When Oriental Models released these locos they made the pilots interchangeableso you could model different versions if you so wished. The pilots that are attached now are the small opening versions. I would like to add the closed door pilot on the lead unit. Oriental Models made these available as extra parts you could purchase. My question is does anyone here have an extra closed door version they would like to sale or trade for my open door version? Email off list if anyone can help. Thanks,....... Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Help With Math! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Jerry scrivit: > > Okay folks, I know there are a few academians out there, so here's your > chance to shine...for some reason, my mind keeps fogging as I try to do > this calculation: > > I just received a valuation map (* see below) that is drawn to the scale > of 1" = 100'. I want to scan this map in and then print out portions of > it at full HO scale...12" = 87'. I am having trouble figuring out the > formula for what percentage by which to scale the original to. Can anyone > help on this? You have 1" = 100' You want 12" = 87', which is equivalent to 1" = (87/12)' = 7.25' The present map is a larger scale by a factor of (100/7.25) or 13.793. So enlarge by 1379.3%. As copiers can't do that, you'll have to do various 200%s and so forth. Unless, of course, you scan, pick it up in PhotoShop or Illustrator, and do a direct enlargement by the specified percentage, which any _good_ graphics package will be able to do. On a copier, it would be 200%, then 200%, then 200% (now 800%), then 172.4% (closest you'll come to is 172%), and that's assuming your copier is accurate. Of course, any error in enlargement will be cumulative. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:45:35 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: [PRR] LINES WEST: Former PRR main line between Hobart and Gary >From Trains Magazine (www.trains.com) Copyright 1999. Posted under fair use provisions of Copyright Act because their web site is having link problems. CSX reopens line between Hobart and Gary, Ind. [snip...] The route is former Pennsylvania Railroad, deemed redundant by Conrail and closed in 1991. Norfolk Southern bought the portion east of Hobart to in effect make a double track with its own, ex-Nickel Plate, line to Fort Wayne, Ind., but under the terms of the Conrail split, CSX gained ownership of the ex-PRR line from NS, which takes over Conrail's main route east from Chicago, the Chicago Line. NS and CSX have trackage rights on each other's routes as part of the Conrail deal. CSX spent $6.5 million to rehabilitate the line between Hobart and Clark Junction. The rehabilitation included reconstruction of a connection at Tolleston, Ind., between the line and an adjacent ex-Conrail line that also becomes part of CSX. After June 1, CSX expected the line between Hobart and Tolleston to be used by five trains per day, predominately unit-train movements of grain and coal. Rehabilitation of the remainder of the line between Tolleston and Clark Junction will continue through July. This new is especially meaningful to me because I was an operator at Clark Junction tower for several years and it looked at one time like Conrail was going to completely abandon and scrap this part of the line. It will be interesting to see how NS uses this part of the line. The old Wabash main line which NS still uses to switch local industries in Gary runs adjacent to the former PRR and a connection could easily be built. This would allow coal trains destined for the EJ&E, which are currently exchanged at Van Loon on the former Nickel Plate, to access the EJ&E from the Wabash. Lots of possibilities here. I am going to Gary this weekend to survey the situation and a report will be forthcoming. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:26:44 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: [PRR] LINES WEST: Indpls Star/News archive photo 1916 I have been curious about the date when the Indianapolis Union Railway was elevated. Imagine my surprise today when I was browsing through the Indpls Star and saw an archive photo from July 26, 1916 regarding this very topic. This photo may be viewed at: Unfortunately, the image on the web page is rather small and shows less detail than the half-tone print image. I have been working in downtown Indpls lately at Eli Lilly, where the contractor parking lot (where I park) is adjacent to the Conrail (former IU) elevated tracks just east of IU tower. There is a new parking lot going being contructed in this area, and it seems that this spot must have had an engine coaling tower on it at one time before the tracks were elevated. I have found a lot of coal dust and clinkers among old ties and bits of concrete foundations. Unfortunately, the whole area will be under a new coat of asphalt within weeks. Other Indy news: With the passing of this part of Conrail to CSXT, there seems to be a lot of track department activity in the area of the junction of the B&O Hamilton branch with the CR main just west if I-65. It *appears* (although it is speculation on my part) that CSX will be abandoning the former Big 4 Shelbyville branch between IU and the Indianapolis Belt. This track was used by Conrail for locals to/from Hawthorne yard on the east side of town. CSX will probably route these trains over the B&O Hamilton branch to State St. yard and around the Belt connection to Hamilton Junction on the Belt. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg NRHS Notes Date: Thu, 10 Jun 99 20:22:58 -0400 From: Jerry While lister Craig Bowman visited me last night from California, Bill Lewis, president of the Northern Central Chapter PRRT&HS stopped by as well. Bill had just attended the Harrisburg Chapter meeting of the NRHS and had these notes to share: 1. As a result of the NS takeover, traffic on the former Northern Central branch from Enola to York is up. A week ago YorkRail received their largest transfer run in recent history...102 cars! 2. Trailer train traffic out of the ex-Reading Rutherford Yard east of Harrisburg, which then interchanges onto the former PRR at Harrisburg to head west, is so busy that NS is going to double-track the interchange! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:23:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Need Help With Math! Jerry: Try this. HO scale 12" = 87' 1" = 7.25' map 1" = 100' 100/7.25 = 13.793 So you need to enlarge the maps 1379.3% or 13.79 times current size. Hope you have a lot of paper. At least that is how I would do it. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Valuation Maps Date: Fri, 11 Jun 99 09:03:59 -0400 From: Jerry Craig Bowman, lister from California, visited me the other night, as I mentioned in another post. I briefly described that he had loaned me a chart for scanning. Here's more info, and some good news for him as well! His chart is a Valuation Map, dated 1918, but revised to 1963. The scale is 1" = 100'. It covers Harrisburg from midway in the Harrisburg Yard (north of Maclay Street) to just north of Reilly Street, inclusive of the entire Harrisburg Locomotive Facility! What is so good about a valuation map is that they include every track and structure in their exact locations...an excellent tool for modeling! Anyway, his map is missing the coal wharf. We had thought it was just off the map to the east. Not so! Using the 1993 satellite photos I can match items still in existence and discovered that the coal wharf had already been removed as of the last revision of the map (again, 1963). The track the hoppers used to fill the wharf had also been removed, and many new turnouts and tracks had actually been "added" at the east end of the steam storage yards! The satellite view shows that the many inspection pits, repair pits, ash pit, and wash pit survived until at least 1993. The roundhouse and turntable survived until approximately 1997. Anyway, some time ago I had posted a similar map for the Harrisburg Station. It was labelled "Retirement of 14,400 Lin. Ft. of Track Including 37 Turnouts and Two Crossing Frog at "Harris" and "State" Interlockings". It was dated 1964 and revvised to 1965. The scale is 1" = 200'. It covers from north of State Street to south of Dock Street. Craig and I both had thought that there were a few blocks missing from in between our maps. To my surprise, I have come to the realization that the next map in the series of Craig's valuation maps was actually the basis for the map I already had. It was relabelled from Valuation Map and the rescaled, but it contains the exact hashmarks reading "align with map x" that corresponds with Craig's. This western edge of my map is very hard to read as it was a blueprint exposed to sunlight for decades. This helped to conceal the connection. But using Adobe PhotoShop's color correction and sharpening filters I was able to create a clearer version of the original! I will permanently clean up the station map and resize it to match Craig's. I am truly excited that we'll now have this much of Harrisburg covered "to scale". Do we stop there? No! Craig is also loaning me 3 valuation maps that cover all of Enola Yard!!! A side note: Craig has blueprints of the Harrisburg Station -- elevations and floor plans. Unfortunately, the blue color has bled through into the white lines and there isn't enough contrast to make a decent scan. I will continue to work to find a way to clean these up as well, but it will be a long time coming, if at all. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gary Farmer" Subject: [PRR] PRR GG1 bell available for trade Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:01:51 -0400 Hello everyone, I am a new member on this list & must admit I feel like a cat in a dog pound. You see, I'm a Penn Central railroadiana collector. Now I realize that according to some, I have just uttered a swear word in mentioning the PC. Nevertheless, it is my favorite RR. I am always looking for unusual PC items to add to my collection. If you have anything to sell or trade, please contact me. I periodically get good PRR trade items. Last year, I picked up a couple of PRR tower signs (steel keystones), which I traded to 2 different PRR collectors in exchange for PC signs. So one hand washes the other! I currently have a PRR bell from a GG1, complete with the number cutouts from 2 numberboards, as well as notarized paperwork validating the engine it came from. It is available for trade. I am most interested in PC china, silver hollowware, signs, and other unusual PC items. Anyway, if you hate the PC, or are indifferent to it, we need to talk! Thanks for your time in reading this. Sincerely, Gary Farmer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:22:37 -0500 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] progress on "The Limited" Hello one and all, Just a quick note to let you know that I have just posted a new Chapter to "The Limited" entitled "Bubba's Web Resources". I have received messages from several people asking for help with their own web sites, so this chapter is being developed as a public service. Included are basics of HTML code, graphics, CGI code and troubleshooting; all based on the materials and experiences I have had in developing "The Limited". This is not a definitive resource on web authoring- but then it's not written in technobabble, either. :-}> Needless to say, all you webslingers out there who would like to make additions or corrections are welcome to contribute for the common good. AND- while I have you cornered- we are coming down to the end of another Opinion Poll on bulk packs and the dreaded Paint Scheme question. Still time to put in your 2 cents worth (and yes, these polls do have an impact here!) http://www.thoseclassictrains.com Be there are be square. My best to all, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] hopper car demographics Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:24:56 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB3FD.089F2DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am sure you guys can help on this one. I am modeling a portion of the = Monongahela Branch in the Pittsburgh area, along with my own terminal = railroad which interchanges with the P&LE, B&O and Montour during 1967. = Here are the questions: 1) What would the hopper car mix be during this period- ie.. 55 ton to = 70 ton to 100 ton, etc? 2) Were the 55 ton cars still used much during this period? 3) Would the hopper consists be mixed with non-PRR roads? Thanks for your help. Greg Johnson, Modeling 1967 Pittsburgh in 1999 Houston, TX ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB3FD.089F2DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am sure you guys can help on this = one. I am=20 modeling a portion of the Monongahela Branch in the Pittsburgh area, = along with=20 my own terminal railroad which interchanges with the P&LE, B&O = and=20 Montour during 1967. Here are the questions:
 
1) What would the hopper car mix be = during this=20 period- ie.. 55 ton to 70 ton to 100 ton, etc?
2) Were the 55 ton cars still used = much during=20 this period?
3) Would the hopper consists be = mixed with=20 non-PRR roads?
 
Thanks for your help.
 
Greg Johnson,
Modeling 1967 Pittsburgh in 1999 = Houston,=20 TX
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BEB3FD.089F2DA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: Harrisburg Coal Wharf Demolition Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:51:43 -0400 For you detail affianados........ I can tell you the EXACT DATE that the Harrisburg coal wharf fell to the dynamiters. It was Halloween night, 1962 (actually I believe it was October 30th, the night before). That was the week that President J.F. Kennedy was playing "I dare you to launch your missles" with Fidel Castro. Everybody was a little on edge wondering if World War III was going to break out any day now. That's about all the news that was on the tube at that time. Well, yours truly and spouse were standing on the curb on Market Street waiting for the Halloween Parade to begin along with hundreds of other Harrisburgers when the dynamite charge went off with a BOOOOOOM. You can use your map and scale to figure out how many feet and inches the coal wharf was from Market Street. NOT VERY FAR. The explosion set off the city's air raid sirens. We all just about had a collective heart attack in honor of the Pennsy's coal wharf demolition! Just thought you'd like to know. Bill Volkmer ---------- > From: Jerry > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Valuation Maps > Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 9:03 AM > > Craig Bowman, lister from California, visited me the other night, as I > mentioned in another post. I briefly described that he had loaned me a > chart for scanning. Here's more info, and some good news for him as well! > > His chart is a Valuation Map, dated 1918, but revised to 1963. The scale > is 1" = 100'. It covers Harrisburg from midway in the Harrisburg Yard > (north of Maclay Street) to just north of Reilly Street, inclusive of the > entire Harrisburg Locomotive Facility! > > What is so good about a valuation map is that they include every track > and structure in their exact locations...an excellent tool for modeling! > > Anyway, his map is missing the coal wharf. We had thought it was just off > the map to the east. Not so! Using the 1993 satellite photos I can match > items still in existence and discovered that the coal wharf had already > been removed as of the last revision of the map (again, 1963). The track > the hoppers used to fill the wharf had also been removed, and many new > turnouts and tracks had actually been "added" at the east end of the > steam storage yards! > > The satellite view shows that the many inspection pits, repair pits, ash > pit, and wash pit survived until at least 1993. The roundhouse and > turntable survived until approximately 1997. > > Anyway, some time ago I had posted a similar map for the Harrisburg > Station. It was labelled "Retirement of 14,400 Lin. Ft. of Track > Including 37 Turnouts and Two Crossing Frog at "Harris" and "State" > Interlockings". It was dated 1964 and revvised to 1965. The scale is 1" = > 200'. It covers from north of State Street to south of Dock Street. > > Craig and I both had thought that there were a few blocks missing from in > between our maps. To my surprise, I have come to the realization that the > next map in the series of Craig's valuation maps was actually the basis > for the map I already had. It was relabelled from Valuation Map and the > rescaled, but it contains the exact hashmarks reading "align with map x" > that corresponds with Craig's. > > This western edge of my map is very hard to read as it was a blueprint > exposed to sunlight for decades. This helped to conceal the connection. > But using Adobe PhotoShop's color correction and sharpening filters I was > able to create a clearer version of the original! > > I will permanently clean up the station map and resize it to match > Craig's. I am truly excited that we'll now have this much of Harrisburg > covered "to scale". > > Do we stop there? No! Craig is also loaning me 3 valuation maps that > cover all of Enola Yard!!! > > A side note: Craig has blueprints of the Harrisburg Station -- elevations > and floor plans. Unfortunately, the blue color has bled through into the > white lines and there isn't enough contrast to make a decent scan. I will > continue to work to find a way to clean these up as well, but it will be > a long time coming, if at all. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:36:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Specific diesel replacements Rick Tipton wrote: << OTOH, I don't expect to ever discover why a fleet of H-10-44's came to stay on the Panhandle. Was it because they looked as weird as the Lines West's tender coalboards? :^) >> Some called them the "ugly Ducklings" with the porch roof being the beak? Now, I can share a little more information regarding my article on the Pennsy's fleet of H-10-44's (FS-10). It will publish in two parts, first being in July's issuse of Mainline Modeler and then the second part in August. After indulging so deeply into the research I now feel a lot different about this beautiful little "hustling" shifter. And who knows why the heck they landed in the Panhandle but I sure am glad they did! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:52:38 -0400 From: "Solida, P P" Subject: [PRR] Artwork Looking for (preferably) artwork showing "The Congressional Limited". Nice ones of engines good but one showing observation car and drumhead would be best. B&W ok but color Preferable. Photo ok if cant find artwork. Old add would be great source. For those not looking to sell I am not necessarily looking to buy artwork...Just a good scan is OK . Let me know if you can help or know of a source. Phil P.S. Also looking for same for "20th Century Limited",(NYC) "Hiawatha", "Daylight", (UP) & "Super Chief"(SF). Artwork of logos for the trains & RR involved would help. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RAILFAN23@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 02:33:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Circus Train Is everyone aware the Circus Train will be going up the Bald Eagle valley line to Milesburg, Pa and then thru Bellefonte to park near the Nittany Mall. The animals will be unloaded to parade from there to the Bryce Jordan Center in State College about noon on Tuesday 6-15 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "George N Pierson" Subject: [PRR] ICC Val sections Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:32:29 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB69C.A3C4F520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all, I can't remember if I've asked before, but does anyone know which = valuation section the Middle Division about 45 miles timetable west of = harrisburg is on? I have an unexpected opportunity to visit the = National Archives in a few weeks and I'd like to pull some of the ICC = Valuation maps and engineering reports for Juniata County, which is = roughly (east to west) Thompsontown and Denholm, especially Port Royal. = I need to know the Val section for the archivist to fiund the materials. = Thanks! George N. Pierson e-mail: george.pierson@trnty.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB69C.A3C4F520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all,
 
I can't remember if I've asked before, but does = anyone know=20 which valuation section the Middle Division about 45 miles timetable = west of=20 harrisburg is on?  I have an unexpected opportunity to visit the = National=20 Archives in a few weeks and I'd like to pull some of the ICC Valuation = maps and=20 engineering reports for Juniata County, which is roughly (east to west)=20 Thompsontown and Denholm, especially Port Royal.  I need to know = the Val=20 section for the archivist to fiund the materials.  = Thanks!
 
George N. Pierson
e-mail:  = george.pierson@trnty.edu
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEB69C.A3C4F520-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:20:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] shadowed keystones I am trying to find who carries a shadowed keystone decal that will fit on the side of my Aero train cars.....HO scale. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Model Photo Hello, Last week I posted a photo of a PRR N6B Cabin Car in O scale. I noted that I would list a another pic this week of a Loco that was seen quite a bit hauling that around on its train on the long Ore runs out Ohio way. Yep, the Mighty J1. This J1 is a Sunset Models. The 2 rail version. Was factory painted when purchased new several years ago. I replaced the builders plates, changed the loco number to 6171 and added a new number plate. Added the trust plate on the cab. To show signs of usage I gave it an in service appearance with just enough weathering effects to suit my tastes. I display this as you see it and I call it "Caboose Hop". You can view the pics here: http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/caboosehop.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/j1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/j1tender.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/j1closeup.jpg ............Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:04:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] stone towers on the PRR >From Triumph 1, 3 stone towers were previously "known". Well, here's a shocker... I picked up "Altoona and the Pennsylvania Railroad: Between a Roar and a Whimper" while at the Railroad Museum of PA this weekend. On page 33 is a picture taken on May 17. 1964, of WJ ("Homer") tower on the westbound hump at Altoona, and guess what? So now we have reason to believe that was a late-surviving stone tower. The picture is color, by the way... -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:05:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] length MP54 How long is a standard MP54? Recently I was told that they were only 54' long but all my reference material says 64' 3/4". Any opinions or added reference material would be appreciated. Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:50:47 +0200 From: Arne Wangen Subject: [PRR] Still Alive? Greetings As I haven't received any messages for 48 hours, I am just wondering whether the list is dead, I have been dropped as subscriber or everybody have gone on vacation. Arne Wangen Bergen Norway ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Lake Erie Port Facilities in Ohio Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:47:33 -0400 PRR fans: If any of you are interested in Great Lakes shipping and dock facilities in Ohio here are a couple of sites you can spend hours in. Great stuff. Al ------------------------------------------------------ > From: Jon Hollahan > To: RAILROAD@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Cleveland's Hulett Ore Unloaders > Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 3:32 PM > > On the off-chance someone else is interested in these technological > dinosaurs, here are two URL's I found on rec.crafts.metalworking. Both are > very good sites. > > If you're not interested, sorry for being off-topic. > > http://junior.apk.net/~cam/huletts/huletts.htm > http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/glihc/hulett/ > > Jon Hollahan in South Florida > hollahan@bellsouth.net > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Listmaster Update Date: Sun, 13 Jun 99 21:27:21 -0400 From: Jerry Update on our "situation": As previously posted, a TelCo "event" fused our routing equipment after support hours on Friday (6/11) preventing us for initiating a service replacement until tomorrow (6/14). At that time we will request cross-ship replacement, but that means that we will continue to operate at 14.4K until at least Tuesday...so please keep traffic at a minimum. Yes, we do keep spare equipment on hand. However, the case here was that excess voltage (not a spike) came through the telco connection and fused the equipment. I plugged in the spare, but the telco was still HOT and it fused the spare as well!!! Needless to say, I will be having words with the TelCo! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsylvania Station Rebirth? Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:53:42 -0400 > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 2:06 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsylvania Station Rebirth? snip > > I wonder if they will try to acquire the original "Night & Day" sculpture > that adorned the original building? The sculpture now rests in a park > somewhere in New Jersey. It would be great if they could retrieve it. > What other PRR Penn Station items are still out there? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS The Whippany RR Museum here in NJ has the top of one of the cast iton track indicator signs from old Penn Station. These were metal colums flanking the stairways down to the tracks and listed the train arrival/departure info. One of these days I'll get a photo of it on my web site... Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: Specific diesel replacements Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:01:54 -0400 Two SD-7s for 3 H-10s means that by 1952, the PRR had finally figured out that a smaller number of diesels would replace a larger number of steamers. That was called PROGRESS in those days! The plethora of Baldwin road switchers, some with steam generators and some without is but another example. The 8110 for instance was a staple on the race trains out of Philadelphia. Which ever track was running, thats where the 8110 ran. First Atlantic City, then Bowie, etc. The center cab Baldwins with the cast trucks I believe were bought specifically for the light loading Schuylkil Valley Branch. Don't get me started. If you look at a diesel assignment sheet for the mid 1950s you can see why the H-10-44s were in Cincinnati etc. They wanted to spread the misery as far as they could so nobody would be left out. They were in Chicago, Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Detroit, you name it. There was enough to go around so long as nobody had more than 4 or 5. I still maintain that the only reason they didn't buy Lionel is because they were the wrong gauge. For more on this subject, please get yourself a copy of Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 6 and read the frontpiece written by Yours truly. Bill Volkmer ---------- > From: RickTipton@aol.com > To: herzog@icanect.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; MEMRA@listserv.dartmouth.edu > Subject: Specific diesel replacements > Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 7:26 AM > > In a message dated 6/8/99 10:54:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > herzog@icanect.net writes: > > << You are correct, but the Pennsy bought diesels to replace steam one for > one, hence the "hammerhead" Emporium, the SD-7s at Madison Hill .>> > > Almost -- in the case of Madison Hill, apparently 3 H6's were replaced by 3 > H10's, which were replaced by 2 (count them, two) SD7's. This is stated in > Dick Jacobs' Keystone article "1.5 Miles at 6%". > > Your basic point, that PRR spec'd replacements for steam in terms of their > specific application, remains intact... wish I could furnish more specific > examples. > > OTOH, I don't expect to ever discover why a fleet of H-10-44's came to stay > on the Panhandle. Was it because they looked as wierd as the Lines West's > tender coalboards? :^) > > Til the next train out, > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) > Operating the Panhandle Route > And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:26:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] Specific diesel replacements In a message dated 6/8/99 10:54:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, herzog@icanect.net writes: << You are correct, but the Pennsy bought diesels to replace steam one for one, hence the "hammerhead" Emporium, the SD-7s at Madison Hill .>> Almost -- in the case of Madison Hill, apparently 3 H6's were replaced by 3 H10's, which were replaced by 2 (count them, two) SD7's. This is stated in Dick Jacobs' Keystone article "1.5 Miles at 6%". Your basic point, that PRR spec'd replacements for steam in terms of their specific application, remains intact... wish I could furnish more specific examples. OTOH, I don't expect to ever discover why a fleet of H-10-44's came to stay on the Panhandle. Was it because they looked as wierd as the Lines West's tender coalboards? :^) Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Listmaster Alert -- Slow Connection Date: Sun, 13 Jun 99 21:20:38 -0400 From: Jerry Alert from the Listmaster: A TelCo "event" this evening seems to have "fused" some of our connection hardware. Why these things happen on Friday nights when we can't immediately start service replacement orders is beyond belief. We will have to wait until Monday morning to start the replacement procedure. Until then, we are running "bandwidth impaired" on a 14.4K modem! Please postpone surfing the "Keystone Crossings" web site if possible, and keep list traffic to a bare minimum if you can. I suspect it will be late Tuesday until we are back online at normal speed. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:19:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [MEMRA] NS 50' Box Cars in Rail Train In a message dated 6/13/99 7:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tstuart@forcomm.net writes: << Jack, Roger on the tie gons. I will watch for them. The ex-PRR panelized track carriers are 65' gons with a deep-well section that allows a piece of track to be carried vertically, at an angle of course. You would know one of those when you saw it as well! Terry >> Terry, I think you will find these are PRR G26L cars, rebuilt by PRR around 1967 from G26C? 65' mill gons, which were rebuilt much earlier (more robust side stakes IIRC) from G26 gons. See for example p110, PRR Color Guide (vol 1). I've not seen an article on kitbashing/scratchbuilding any of these rebuilds, but there ought to be one. I'm most familiar with these cars in their as-built work yellow/PK (plain keystone) scheme or a yellow PC scheme. The ones I saw were deep-well for carrying panelized (pre-assembled) switches. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] new site Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:11:27 -0400 Greetings. My web page has recently been revamped and switched to a new server. Not much to it as of yet. Check it out! "Pennsy Under The Wires" http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/covent/929 -Josh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Car Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:21:10 -0400 Hi everyone, Yesterday I was driving home along 287 in NJ and got off to go looking for food. I went by what I believe is the Morristown and Erie museum. There were some passenger cars on a siding and my daughter shouted that one was a Pennsy. I looked and saw a nice red PRR car. The question is what one is it? Thanks in advance, Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 13 Jun 99 14:36:08 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Where is everyone? Have I been droped from the list is is everyone GONE? ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Listmaster Update Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 06:29:32 -0400 From: Jerry By now many of you have commented on the lists "being back". That was actually a fluke, because I didn't know they were! I have been concentrating on our connection hardware, which was fried, despite being powered through a server-level UPS system. The power stayed on, but it appears the UPS was not protecting the TelCo line as it was supposed to. I am expecting a warranty replacement today via Airborne. We are still operating at 14.4K, so please keep traffic to a minimum. We should be back at 56K by 5 p.m. Our mail server also got "hosed" in the process. I have been trying to reconfigure since Friday night and had finally given up, planning to work on it after the connection hardware was replaced. However, it does indeed appear that my last attempt worked! We'll see how it does after we hit the faster speeds. I am not convinced it is the best setup. But if it works...why break it? One note: it is entirely possible that some mail -- either to the list or to me -- was "lost" in the process. If you are expecting a response from me on an issue and don't get it by Thursday or so, please re-email me. Thanks for your patience. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain Decals, Hello, I don't know who asked the question about Aerotrain Decals but I will explain how I did mine. As of now I only did the Loco because I believe that is how the train looked early on when it was delivered to the PRR. The 10 cars didn't recieve the Keystones until a later date. First you have to find the red and white keystone logo decal. For the life of me I can't remember where I found mine. Maybe Champ, maybe Walthers. These do not have the shadow attached to them. On the Loco I applied the 3 Keystones first and then let them dry. Then I applied black pin-stripe decal material to represent the shadow. I know, alot of extra work but as far as I know there is no otherway to do them. Mine came out Great! Whoops, I just remembered what I may have used for the Loco Keystones. Middle Division decals make a variety of decals for PRR items. I think there is a small sheet of red/white Keystones in the Headend Passnger Car set. D&S Hobbies may confirm this. If it wasn't that set then it was another set. Well thats the way I did mine anyway. There maybe something else on the market now. I did my Aerotrain about 5 years ago. Hope this helps....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:46:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H-10-44s on the Panhandle (was Specific Good Morning, Ya'll In light of news about Jerry's server problems it looks my response to this thread got through on MEMRA but not PRR-Talk. I responded to Rick's response to an Al Herzog query about diesels replacing steam on 'Da Hill' at Madison, Ins. <> To which I responded: Rick, In researching how Yellow Springs how became the focus of congressional investigations of communists and the Mafia during the early 1950s I came across a July 28, 1949, story in the Xenia Daily Gazette that said after listening to complaints of residents of Xenia's railroad neighborhoods, all regularly scheduled PRR trains through Xenia would be pulled by diesels within 30 days. I'm sure they were but I doubt solely because of residents' complaints. This places it smack dab in the middle of receipt of the H-10-44 order. Steam would been able to continue to run on the Columbus- Chicago line and on the Sandusky Branch (where steam ran until 1956) Tom V. This, in turn woke up Roger Hensley who queried: <> To which I replied: Roger, I neglected to sat that in the Penny's 1949 announcement banishing steam from the southern Panhandle lines of the Columbus Division company officials said there would not be a total ban on steam locomotives going through Xenia. They said that for emergencies and other special occasions steam locomotives would be going through Xenia. The key phrase of the announce refers to engines based in Xenia and all regularly scheduled runs through Xenia. Allowing for an occasional appearance by a steam locomotive, it still speaks of a rather large commitment to diesel power on runs to Cincinnati and Dayton. Probably what was most important for residents of Xenia's west end was replacing the steam-powered shifters stationed in Xenia and the H-10 2-8-0s that hauled the local switching turns with H-10-44s. In July 1951 this ban became more absolute when the PRR announced it was razing the 500' curved coal dock just west of Xenia's 100-year-old C&X passenger depot. Age of the structure was not an issue. At the time it was only 12-years-old, having been rebuilt after a fire destroyed an earlier structure in 1939. (Another gem gleaned from my non-railroad research.) Another motivation for dieselization of this line was the size of turntable at Cincinnati's Pemberton engine house -- it was too small to turn the largest locomotives with detaching the tender. Dieselization would have made scheduling power for the lake coal drags with L&N, Virginian, Southern, C&O and other southern lines hoppers headed north to Grogan for pick-up by the J-2s 2-10-4s (did I get the wheel order right this time?) of the Sandusky branch. Tom V ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Enola / Overlook / Renumbering Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 10:52:26 -0400 From: Jerry Didn't get a chance to share this before the temporary "demise" of my TelCo connection: Was up at Enola late last week. Another brianwashing session with son Andrew, now 20 months old. First notation was that at the Enola diesel shop, easily half of the locomotives had already been renumbered with the "PRR" designation. About 20% of the yard was NS power. Went up to the new Overlook bridge. Hadn't ventured there in over two years...due to the construction. The new bridge is almost done. Concrete is down on the deck and they are working on the railings. The old bridge is out. The west end of the new bridge is at roughly the same spot, but the east end shifted north so a gentler curve leads onto the riverfront road. The two tracks out of the westbound departure yard pass under an "over height detector" just yards north of the bridge. Saw an interesting move, and I suspect it was related to out-of-sight RoW work. A westbound came out of the eastbound arrival yard, switched over to the westbound departure tracks at Overlook. It then took the ramp back up to "HIP" to proceed west. Speaking of "HIP", do you know how it got its name? First of all, two tracks come into the eastbound arrival yard. One takes the underpass at Marysville and comes in, closest to route 11/15. The second comes off the Rockville Bridge and curves east into Enola. The "HIP" switch allows trains from one to cross onto the other. Apparently this wasn't always the case, and the yardmaster at the time was named "Hippensteel" and was known as "Hip". He claimed for years that he could double the amount of trains he could get into Enola if they'd add that turnout. They finally did, and named it after him. (According to Bill Lewis per the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS.) Proceeded to Marysville. Sitting at the station, you can't even see the tracks along the river. All you can see is the one track that remains past the station and the lower track that proceeds through the underpass into Enola. I remember when the ex-yard area was flat and open and you could see from BANKS to Rockville Bridge. The trees have taken over and are well over 20' tall. Too bad! (Maybe if a hundred of us hit the area with chain saws during the night we could get in and out in three minutes and get away with it!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Aerotrain Decals, Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:41:13 -0400 The Middle Division HPS-3 set includes six of the red and white keystones (without the shadow). Champ HP-124 also contains 4 of the red and white keystone heralds. For economy, I'd recommend the Micro Scale 87-21 PRR Hood Diesel set. This set includes 30 of the red and white keystone heralds. I am NOT sure that the size of the heralds are correct for the Aerotrain. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ---SNIP--- > Whoops, I just remembered what I may have used for the Loco >Keystones. Middle Division decals make a variety of decals for PRR >items. I think there is a small sheet of red/white Keystones in the >Headend Passnger Car set. D&S Hobbies may confirm this. If it wasn't >that set then it was another set. > Well thats the way I did mine anyway. There maybe something else on >the market now. I did my Aerotrain about 5 years ago. Hope this >helps....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Listmaster Update - 1:15 EST 6/15 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 13:16:51 -0400 From: Jerry At a blistering 14.4K, our mail server seems to be keeping up with things so, have at it -- you may now resume normal list usage. Thank you for your cooperation during the downtime. There will be a some down time (15 minutes or less) late this afternoon as our 56K connection is restored. Until then, I do not recommend accessing our web sites, which use much more bandwidth than do e-mails. I will post another update when the faster connection is restored. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Endangered Sites Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 13:12:49 -0400 From: Jerry Was reading USA Today's site and followed a link to "Endangered sites list for 1999": http://www.usatoday.com/news/ndsmon04.htm Out of "The 11 most endangered sites of 1999," as listed by the National Trust for Historic Preservation, three may be of interest to "us": >Hulett Ore Unloaders, Cleveland. >Pullman Administration Building and Factory Complex, Chicago. >West side of downtown Baltimore. Hulett's are discussed regularly on PRR-Talk. Not sure if the Pullman entry was before or after the fire. The Baltimore entry is probably more relevant to the B&O. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Aerotrain Decals, Dennis, That is correct! The MicroScale decals are what I used and NOT the Middle Division. Microscale Keystones are pretty close to the size. May not be exact but it looks close enough for me. For a whole train (10 cars + Loco) you will need 24 Keystones total. (The loco has 3 Keystones as does the tail-car). The train varied in length, 8 to 10 cars long. I know a retired PRR Mechanic who, after every westbound trip the Aerotrain made, would change the trains brake shoes in Pittsburgh. The train may have been lightweight, but looks like their brake system was also built too light. ......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 13:36:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Question about CT 1000's Dear PRR Gang: I have a question about this interesting PRR manual. I came across a copy of this book in a prototypical Train Show in Kane County (west of Chicago) this past weekend. It was a "CT 1000 E" from May 1945 and covered the PRR approximatley east of Harrisburg or Buffalo. My question is the "E" in the "CT 1000 E" stand for the Eastern Region? Were there other CT 1000's made for other PRR regions? I am looking for a CT 1000's that cover the western end of the railroad in Indiana. Illinois, and Ohio (In particular the Ft. Wayne Line, the Panhandle, and the South Bend Branch) Would anyone have copies for sale? At any rate, the Kane County Show and some interesting PRR items. In addition to timetables, pictures, china and silverware, some vendors were selling builders plates from a variety of steam. Two stood out though. One was a keystone number plate from a K-4 ( I think it was 5478 but I am not sure ). It was selling for $1600. The star of the show, in my biased opinon, is the number plate off of T-1 number 5504. It was creased at it's center to conform to the streamlined nose. Asking price was $10,000. In hindsight, I am glad I did not bring my American Express Card ;) Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana P.S. has anyone every made life-size, cast aluminum/metal reproductions of of keystone number plates that were molded from an original number plate? On EBay, I have seen miniture ones and others that life size but were made of wood. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:26:06 -0400 From: Dave Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] Aerotrain Decals, > Well thats the way I did mine anyway. There maybe something else on >the market now. I did my Aerotrain about 5 years ago. Hope this >helps....Gary Gary, Do you remember what paint you used for the red band? I assume it should match whatever red is in the keystone. The "red" on the decorated Bowser train seemed too orange to me. Thanks. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:09:06 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] T-1 south of the Mason Dixon line Howdy y'all, An aquaintance in the local hobby shop informed me that PRR T-1 duplexes made forays as far south as Mobile, Alabama as pool power on the Southwind. Apparently it made a BIG impression on the tower operator in Montgomery as it passed through . Anyone care to comment on the veracity of this tale? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Listmaster Update - 4:55 EST 6/15 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 16:57:33 -0400 From: Jerry 56K service has been restored. Again, thank you for your patience. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRR hoppers used in Mass Interstate construction Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:13:32 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell I have a reprint of a B&M Bulletin article on the Saugus Branch (Saugus is a northern Boston suburb), and the last photo, dated 8 April 1968, is of a train that had brought gravel fill for an Interstate Highway project from a quarry in New Hampshire; the train itself is a solid string of Pennsy hoppers. Can anybody tell me how a PRR hopper train came to haul gravel from New Hampshire to Saugus? Was this a backhaul opportunity for a coal train for the Bow power plant, perhaps? Thanks! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] Re: T-1 number plates Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:01:17 -0400 Yars and yars ago (like 1958?) when I lived in Altoona, there was an O scale model railroad club on the second floor of an abandoned school and they had a huge collection of keystone number plates laying on the floor propped up against the walls etc. There was at least one of the creased jobs from a T-1 and possibly more, I can't remember. In those days they were selling the flat ones out of the Altoona Stores Dept. for $17.00 each, and I couldn't bring myself to part with $17 bucks for one. But I DO have several builders plates off of the P-5s and one brass GG-1 plate since it was MOI who canned the P-5s and sent them to eternal rest. Bill ---------- > From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Question about CT 1000's > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 2:36 PM > > Dear PRR Gang: > > I have a question about this interesting PRR manual. I came across a copy > of this book in a prototypical Train Show in Kane County (west of Chicago) > this past weekend. It was a "CT 1000 E" from May 1945 and covered the PRR > approximatley east of Harrisburg or Buffalo. > > My question is the "E" in the "CT 1000 E" stand for the Eastern Region? > Were there other CT 1000's made for other PRR regions? I am looking for a > CT 1000's that cover the western end of the railroad in Indiana. Illinois, > and Ohio (In particular the Ft. Wayne Line, the Panhandle, and the South > Bend Branch) > > Would anyone have copies for sale? > > At any rate, the Kane County Show and some interesting PRR items. In > addition to timetables, pictures, china and silverware, some vendors were > selling builders plates from a variety of steam. Two stood out though. One > was a keystone number plate from a K-4 ( I think it was 5478 but I am not > sure ). It was selling for $1600. > > The star of the show, in my biased opinon, is the number plate off of T-1 > number 5504. It was creased at it's center to conform to the streamlined > nose. Asking price was $10,000. > > > In hindsight, I am glad I did not bring my American Express Card ;) > > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > > P.S. has anyone every made life-size, cast aluminum/metal reproductions of > of keystone number plates that were molded from an original number plate? > On EBay, I have seen miniture ones and others that life size but were made > of wood. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Question about CT 1000's Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 16:00:33 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/15/99 2:36 PM, ted.andrews@woolpert.com (ted.andrews@woolpert.com) wrote: > I have a question about this interesting PRR manual. I came across a copy > of this book in a prototypical Train Show in Kane County (west of Chicago) > this past weekend. It was a "CT 1000 E" from May 1945 and covered the PRR > approximatley east of Harrisburg or Buffalo. > > My question is the "E" in the "CT 1000 E" stand for the Eastern Region? > Were there other CT 1000's made for other PRR regions? I am looking for a > CT 1000's that cover the western end of the railroad in Indiana. Illinois, > and Ohio (In particular the Ft. Wayne Line, the Panhandle, and the South > Bend Branch) The CT1000 was published in 1923 and again in 1945. The CT1000 (no suffix) covers the entire system and is about six inches wide and eight inches high. The CT1000E (eastern region), CT1000C (central region), and CT1000W (western region) were subvolumes that were only three inches or so wide that I suspect were often carried in hind pockets! Electronic (Acrobat PDF) versions of these documents are available for download from my web site (or for purchase on CD-ROM). Though they are not the same as having the original, they are plenty useful if an original is not available. > > Would anyone have copies for sale? You can find these on eBay fairly regularly for $10-15. The W version is somewhat scarce. The E version shows up every other week or so. > > At any rate, the Kane County Show and some interesting PRR items. In > addition to timetables, pictures, china and silverware, some vendors were > selling builders plates from a variety of steam. Two stood out though. One > was a keystone number plate from a K-4 ( I think it was 5478 but I am not > sure ). It was selling for $1600. > > The star of the show, in my biased opinon, is the number plate off of T-1 > number 5504. It was creased at it's center to conform to the streamlined > nose. Asking price was $10,000. A T-1 builder's plate went on eBay last week. Last I saw it was approaching $10K. There's a T-1 number plate that opened this morning that's already over $2.5K. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:26:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H-10-44s on the Panhandle (was In a message dated 6/15/99 9:35:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LINESWEST@AOL.COM writes: << Roger, I neglected to sat that in the Penny's 1949 announcement banishing steam from the southern Panhandle lines of the Columbus Division company officials said there would not be a total ban on steam locomotives going through Xenia. They said that for emergencies and other special occasions steam locomotives would be going through Xenia. The key phrase of the announce refers to engines based in Xenia and all regularly scheduled runs through Xenia. Allowing for an occasional appearance by a steam locomotive, it still speaks of a rather large commitment to diesel power on runs to Cincinnati and Dayton. Probably what was most important for residents of Xenia's west end was replacing the steam-powered shifters stationed in Xenia and the H-10 2-8-0s that hauled the local switching turns with H-10-44s. In July 1951 this ban became more absolute when the PRR announced it was razing the 500' curved coal dock just west of Xenia's 100-year-old C&X passenger depot. Age of the structure was not an issue. At the time it was only 12-years-old, having been rebuilt after a fire destroyed an earlier structure in 1939. (Another gem gleaned from my non-railroad research.) Another motivation for dieselization of this line was the size of turntable at Cincinnati's Pemberton engine house -- it was too small to turn the largest locomotives with detaching the tender. Dieselization would have made scheduling power for the lake coal drags with L&N, Virginian, Southern, C&O and other southern lines hoppers headed north to Grogan for pick-up by the J-2s 2-10-4s (did I get the wheel order right this time?) of the Sandusky branch. Tom V >> Tom, All this thread has been stirring. However, I have to wonder what a really modern 2-10-4 classified J-2s might have looked like. Would it have been even longer, more powerful than a J-1? Would it have had Q2 or S2 styling? And (barring diesels), when would it have been needed? Korean War boom era? I guess most Pennsy fans would say that the building of the Q2 was in place of a J-2. Whatever the answer, if it got to Cincinnati it probably would have caused trouble for the enginehouse forces at Pendleton. Apparently the facility had been built/rebuilt (when) for much smaller power. OTOH, imagine it at speed through Cedarville with a train of L&N hoppers. BTW, anyone have pix of Pendleton in days of steam? Or of PRR/L&N steam in Undercliff Yard for that matter? Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:15:11 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] length MP54 >How long is a standard MP54? Recently I was told that they were only 54' long >but all my reference material says 64' 3/4". Any opinions or added reference >material would be appreciated. The MP54 is around 64' over the buffers, just as a P70 is around 80' over the buffers. The 54 mentioned is the length of the passenger compartment. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: T-1 number plates On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Bill Volkmer wrote: > Yars and yars ago (like 1958?) when I lived in Altoona, there was an O > scale model railroad club on the second floor of an abandoned school and > they had a huge collection of keystone number plates laying on the floor > propped up against the walls etc. There was at least one of the creased > jobs from a T-1 and possibly more, I can't remember. They still exist, though almost certainly not in the same building since I don't think that's what the building they're in now was. Maybe I'm wrong. At any rate they had open house during the last Railfest, and my brother and I paid a visit. Still tons of number plates on the walls. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 99 18:05:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] T1-number plate Bruce: This is the same number plate (#5504) that I saw at the Train Show. Based on what the seller told me this weekend, I have a sneaking suspicion that the reserve price is $10,000. This bid should be very interesting indeed! Ted ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] T1-number plate Author: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." at Internet Date: 6/15/99 6:18 PM Jerry said (ebaywatch): >Pennsylvania Brass T-1 Keystone Plate! >Item #117356029 <----from #5504 Ted Andrews said: > The star of the show, in my biased opinon, is the number plate off of T-1 > number 5504. It was creased at it's center to conform to the streamlined > nose. Asking price was $10,000. Hmmmm, the listing on ebay is now >$2500, and the reserve is unmet - I'm betting its set at $10K ;^) Well, in any case, this should be a fun auction to watch! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:55:44 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] T1-number plate Jerry said (ebaywatch): >Pennsylvania Brass T-1 Keystone Plate! >Item #117356029 <----from #5504 Ted Andrews said: > The star of the show, in my biased opinon, is the number plate off of T-1 > number 5504. It was creased at it's center to conform to the streamlined > nose. Asking price was $10,000. Hmmmm, the listing on ebay is now >$2500, and the reserve is unmet - I'm betting its set at $10K ;^) Well, in any case, this should be a fun auction to watch! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:41:55 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: [PRR] GG1 Iron Bells Question for Bill V. (or anybody who cares to answer): The bells on GG1's were allegedly made of iron on the World War Two produced electrics (1941-1945). When the GG1's came to New Haven in the PC days, I noticed their bells made a "thunk thunk" or a "clunk clunk" sound rather than a true, ringing "ding ding". Question is, were these the iron bells? I never did hear one with a good clear ring, as I would expect from a true brass bell (and by the way, the New Haven motors all had brass bells which really rang, and did not thunk). -- Robert Livingston ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:36:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 south of the Mason Dixon line hmmm....this is a joke, right? It was 668 miles from Loovull to Mobile (which ain't on the South Wind route, in any event) via L&N, mostly light rail where 2-8-2's and some 4-8-2's ran. I don't think even the Old Reliable's own 2-8-4's could run on that route, being used mostly over in coal country. I wonder if maybe the hobby shop fella isn't having a bit of fun? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Aerotrain Dave, list Hello, I also think the color on the "Bowser" Aerotrain maybe a tad too orange. I did not use Bowsers. My Aerotrain is all original Varney. All pieces were picked up at local train shows until I had all 10 cars and the Loco.My Loco is powered by a Northwest Short Lie Powe Truck. I also have an original in the box Varney Aerotrain set that I am not touching. Most of the cars I purchased were undecorated kits or I stripped the paint off of others. I then painted the silver. For the red/orange color I mixed my own color until it matched a color photo showing this red/orange color. Don't ask me what brand or the ratios, I don't recall. The red in the decal is more red but isn't that noticeable.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] T! Plate List, This is the second go arund on eBay for this Keystone Plate. The seller had t listed a week and half ago. Top bid that was posted was $6000.99. As you can see it didn't sell. I thought sure a bidder would have purchased it in an after auction deal. My guesstimate would be in the $8,000.00 to $10,000.00 range. These days when a "common" cast iron Keystone is available to purhase, depending on the class it came from, averages about $2,500.00+++. This T1 Keystone is extremely rare! This last spring I heard there was one floating around on the east coast for sale. That asking price was $10,000. IS this the same plate?? hmmmm. I emailed the seller the first time he had it listed asking him if this was but I did not recieve any return email. Did I strike a nerve??? hmmm? If this is then the price is surely more than our thinking. A profit has got to be made. Don't you think. I would surely like to add it to my collection just like everyone else. But I am in the process of purchasing a K4 3 Chime whistle. Can't buy everything. Damn it!!!!!!!....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:29:49 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Endangered sites and loco assignments Hi All... As far as the west side of downtown Baltimore being an endangered site.....Hmmmmm just west of downtown is the shopping district on Howard st. This area has'nt changed much since the turn of the century. Lots of old stores and businesses. Also almost the entire area past this is mostly old row houses. Also you have the Babe Ruth home site and Edgar Allen Poe's house and the church where he's buried. As far as railroads are concerned..... The B&O Camdem station has a assured future...its part of the Camdem yards site. Its a shame they took out most of the old platforms and stuff.Then past Camdem station a little furter west is the B&O museum...which is'nt going anywhere and the old B&O shops which last i heard was either part of the museum or still used by CSX. Now the old PRR main and present Amtrak main is west of this and we all no thats not going anywhere. I'd worry about the East side of downtown.....theres the Canton RR and the old PRR-NC yards. The and all of the old street trackage. Condo's and upscale shops are slowly moving to the east from downtown. I've already heard that the Boston street area (where PRR had some street trackage) has a lot of condo's now. This area used to be old row houses,corner stores and bars and old piers. Now as for the loco assignment stuff.... Last week some of you all were talking about the GE 44 tonner's and the A-5s 0-4-0 engines. For those who don't know. There's a old Trains article that gives the 1939 assignments for the A-5s and the 1963 assignments for the 44 tonners. This is in the May 1975 issue and was written by Bert Pennsypacker. The name of the article is "The Diesel that could not replace a steamer". Theres also a great article on New York's Grand Central station...ok,ok...i know....not PRR. But hey its a good article. If anyone wants....i can send them the assignments if they need them. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:03:34 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR hoppers used in Mass Interstate construction I remember that this train operated, but not much else - I had moved to that area in late 1967. What I DO remember is that the train operated for an extended period of time, to transport all the material required. It was not a one-trip operation. Steve Bartlett Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > I have a reprint of a B&M Bulletin article on the Saugus > Branch (Saugus is a northern Boston suburb), and the last > photo, dated 8 April 1968, is of a train that had brought > gravel fill for an Interstate Highway project from a quarry > in New Hampshire; the train itself is a solid string of > Pennsy hoppers. > > Can anybody tell me how a PRR hopper train came to haul > gravel from New Hampshire to Saugus? Was this a backhaul > opportunity for a coal train for the Bow power plant, > perhaps? > > Thanks! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] K4 restoration Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:18:37 -0700 I live in southern california. This past sunday the Sante Fe northern 3751 hit the rails again at speed as she headed up to northen california for railfest 99. This is the first she has moved any distance, if at all, under her own power, since 1992. Since she is in fine shape the reason for lack of use is because of the railroads not wanting her on the main line. I don't know how the NRHS of San Bernadino got permission this time. I chased the engine for about 60 miles and it was absolutely spectacular. I have never seen a large steam engine at full speed. I can only imagine a greater high.... The PENNSYLVANIA K4 doing the exact same thing. So PLEASE, if you haven't already done so, SEND A LITTLE to the restoration program so we can see PENNSY STEAM rise again!!!! It can happen if we all pitch in just a little. ___Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] RE: T1 number plate Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:09:11 -0700 Bill Volkner mentioned that years ago there was an O scale club in altoona with a large collection of PRR number plates. I went to altoona this last fall to the RR museum. While at a local hobby shop I was told about this club and visited it. It actually is a combined HO and O scale club. They have all the walls covered with number plates and keytones and other memorabilia. They also have hundreds if not thousands of blue prints of PRR equipment stored in map cabinets. The address is available because they are the same club that recently had a bowser round roof boxcar made comemorating altoona or the club. Also offered was a bowser N5 cabin car with the simple pennsy lettering style, the name of which font eludes me right at this moment. If anyone needs the address I believe I have it buried around here somewhere and should be able to dig it up Greg Stone PRRT&HS member interested in any photos or information on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] "Garrett Rea" : Fw: FGE cars From: Fred G Rea Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:56:21 EDT My son, an avid PC fan, has asked me to see if anyone on PRR-Talk can help him with this. Respond directly to him at the address at the end of his letter. Fred Rea >Gents: > >Wanting to break the long stream of red and green boxcars, I decided a while >back to get some Microscale decals for FGE cars, HO set 87-238. I then put >them aside and followed some other persuits, i.e., I had yet to buy an >airbrush. > >Last month, I bought two FGE kits off of eBay from a friend of mine. They >are old Details West kits. These kits included Champ set HR-70. The Champ >set differs in that a, it included the data for the cars (bloody >Microscale!) b, it includes the two black stripes that run the length of >the cars, and c, the quality (Champ's lack-of) of the fonts of the reporting >marks between the two sets. Both sets include the roads other than PC that >were part of the FGE pool. It is my understanding that Walthers made a kit >of the FGE cars a while back and there was a PC version as well. > >Ok, I have the decals and info, however, the only good photos that I have >found are in the PC color guide and these are the later cars that do not >have the side stripes and are new PC construction (built in VA) with >off-center doors. Also, the cut-off date for red to yellow ends and the end >of the side stripes appears to be 1969, is this correct? The kits I have >are center door 50' cars also, so pre 1969? and look >identical to the other prototype photos in the Microscale set. > >I have some other photos of these cars (not good or it is a photo of an SD40 >with one in the background) but I am looking for ANY info on these cars. I >have YET to see one with PRR marks either. I am focusing around 1968-70 >also, so I was going to do one PC and one PRR. > >If anyone can help with this, please let me know. > >Garrett Rea@worldnet.att.net >Mt Juliet, TN --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:29:40 -0700 From: Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Stenciling Question Greetings, I'm working on a project regarding passenger cars and have come across something that seems to be unusual that I can't seem to find any information about. There is a photo on page 24 of Morning Sun's PRR Color Guide Vol. 1 of heavyweight 8-1-2 LAKE MERRITT. There is definitely something stencilled in small characters centered under the car name. A magnifying glass only brings out the printing "dots" so I can't make it out. I thinks it's a car number. Can anyone tell me what this is and what is the lettering size; and if it's a car number, what's the number? Also, on the same photo, there is some lettering on the end of the car centered at the lower part of the panel to the left diaphragm, just above the sill and just under a triangular something-or-other. Again, the magnifying glass doesn't reveal what the lettering is--does any one know, and would this be on both ends? And, what's the triangular item? I haven't noticed any other Pennsy/Pullman car photos with the small lettering under the car name and only a few with the lettering on the end panel. In the same book on page 20, COURAGEOUS appears to have similar lettering on the end panel, but nothing under the car name (then too, the car has both the centered name and the numbers over the trucks). On page 22, POPLAR VIEW appears to have the end panel lettering just above the end sill on the B end. However, McRAVEN on page 23 doesn't appear to have any end lettering in the same area as does LAKE MERRITT. Having said all that, I have read and reread the PRRT&HS Passenger Car Painting and Lettering book and can't find any mention of these two "oddities" of lettering in either the text or the diagrams; however, MATCHLESS on page 40 of this book appears to have the end panel lettering (unreadable again). Could this have been a shop foreman's idea not practiced in whole by the railroad, or something like that? Can anybody help me out on this? Any information will be much appreciated. TIA, Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:26:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] T-1 5504 and T-1 5549 keystones In a message dated 6/15/99 9:33:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << This is the second go arund on eBay for this Keystone Plate. The seller had t listed a week and half ago. Top bid that was posted was $6000.99. As you can see it didn't sell. I thought sure a bidder would have purchased it in an after auction deal. My guesstimate would be in the $8,000.00 to $10,000.00 range. These days when a "common" cast iron Keystone is available to purhase, depending on the class it came from, averages about $2,500.00+++. This T1 Keystone is extremely rare!>> Gary, Not as rare as the seller might wish. Part of his pricing problem may be that a second T-1 plate (#5549) came onto the market at the same time with the death of Jack Fravert last October. As we all know, "competition tends to depress prices". BTW, the story I've been told is that the T-1 keystones were originally cast with a dihedral angle to fit around the lower part of the engine front. When it was decided to move them up onto the sharknose, they were placed in a metal brake and bent to the new, sharper angle. I've also been told that one spotting feature of genuine T-1 plates are the marks from the bending brake, such as the #5549 plate exhibits. Another question -- obviously, #5549 was the highest number in its order. But that doesn't necessarily make it the last T-1 built or installed. Does anyone have access to that info? I'm also curious about when and where it was taken out of service. We lost a lot of info when Jack died. Thanks Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241 Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241 This last spring I heard there was one floating around on the east coast for sale. That asking price was $10,000. IS this the same plate?? hmmmm. I emailed the seller the first time he had it listed asking him if this was but I did not recieve any return email. Did I strike a nerve??? hmmm? If this is then the price is surely more than our thinking. A profit has got to be made. Don't you think. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:51:43 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] T-1 south of the Mason Dixon line I said: >An aquaintance in the local hobby shop informed me that PRR T-1 duplexes >made forays as far south as Mobile, Alabama as pool power on the Southwind. >Anyone care to comment on the veracity of this tale? Barry replied: >hmmm....this is a joke, right? Well....that's one reason I asked It seems far fetched for a lot of reasons, including the lines run on (tight curves as well), and maintainence issues. I may have gotten the train names confused and I will try to get more details, but one thing is clear, years later, PRR E units did run through Montgomery as pool power, since there are photos. Happy rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] H-10-44s on the Panhandle Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:24:14 -0400 I am not sure of this but I think the Pennsy had in mind a 2-10-6 locomotive with a huge firebox. The O scale model railroad in Akron Ohio had two or three models of it running around the layout and I would assume they got the drawings from SOMEWHERE! Bill ---------- > From: RickTipton@aol.com > To: LINESWEST@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com; MEMRA@listserv.dartmouth.edu > Cc: Patrick.Rose@ae.ge.com; Stuthayer@aol.com; ZEEC51A@prodigy.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] H-10-44s on the Panhandle (wasSpecificdiesel replacements) > Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 3:26 PM > > In a message dated 6/15/99 9:35:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > LINESWEST@AOL.COM writes: > > << Roger, > > I neglected to sat that in the Penny's 1949 announcement banishing > steam from the southern Panhandle lines of the Columbus Division company > officials said there would not be a total ban on steam locomotives going > through Xenia. They said that for emergencies and other special occasions > steam locomotives would be going through Xenia. > The key phrase of the announce refers to engines based in Xenia and > all regularly scheduled runs through Xenia. Allowing for an occasional > appearance by a steam locomotive, it still speaks of a rather large > commitment to diesel power on runs to Cincinnati and Dayton. Probably what > was most important for residents of Xenia's west end was replacing the > steam-powered shifters stationed in Xenia and the H-10 2-8-0s that hauled > the > local switching turns with H-10-44s. > In July 1951 this ban became more absolute when the PRR announced it > was razing the 500' curved coal dock just west of Xenia's 100-year-old C&X > passenger depot. Age of the structure was not an issue. At the time it was > only 12-years-old, having been rebuilt after a fire destroyed an earlier > structure in 1939. (Another gem gleaned from my non-railroad research.) > Another motivation for dieselization of this line was the size of > turntable at Cincinnati's Pemberton engine house -- it was too small to turn > the largest locomotives with detaching the tender. Dieselization would have > made scheduling power for the lake coal drags with L&N, Virginian, Southern, > C&O and other southern lines hoppers headed north to Grogan for pick-up by > the J-2s 2-10-4s (did I get the wheel order right this time?) of the > Sandusky > branch. > > Tom V > >> > Tom, > All this thread has been stirring. However, I have to wonder what a really > modern 2-10-4 classified J-2s might have looked like. Would it have been > even longer, more powerful than a J-1? Would it have had Q2 or S2 styling? > And (barring diesels), when would it have been needed? Korean War boom era? > > I guess most Pennsy fans would say that the building of the Q2 was in place > of a J-2. > > Whatever the answer, if it got to Cincinnati it probably would have caused > trouble for the enginehouse forces at Pendleton. Apparently the facility had > been built/rebuilt (when) for much smaller power. OTOH, imagine it at speed > through Cedarville with a train of L&N hoppers. > > BTW, anyone have pix of Pendleton in days of steam? Or of PRR/L&N steam in > Undercliff Yard for that matter? > > Til the next train out, > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) > Operating the Panhandle Route > And Remembering PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: SETI@Home Date: Wed, 16 Jun 99 09:29:11 -0400 From: Jerry Just an update on the "Team PRR" participation in the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) project: There are 12 members in the team. We have contributed over 1,984 hours of otherwise wasted processing time on this project. We have completed 67 work units. Our fastest cpu processes a work unit in 12 hr 24 min 59.4 sec (a Sun Enterprise 250); our slowest in 135 hr 12 min 02.2 sec (a Sun SparcStation 2). Overall, over 10,883.29 years of processing time has been donated to this project, by 620,376 users, making it the largest distributed processing project in history! This project works as a screen saver. So, if you keep your computer on, please join "Team PRR" and contribute. Each user gets to pick a "user name", so sign up as your favorite Pennsy train! http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: andrew harmantas Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: T-1 number plates Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:20:12 EDT Yes, the Pennsy Keystone number plates still exist. They were displayed, including one from a T-1, at Pennsy Days at the museum in Strasbirg two weekends ago. Not sure, but I think the display was set up by the historical guys from Altoona. Andrew Harmantas, SPF ________________________ > > they had a huge collection of keystone number plates laying on the >floor> > propped up against the walls etc. There was at least one of the >creased> > jobs from a T-1 and possibly more, I can't remember.> >They still exist, though almost certainly not in the same building _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR T1 Rick, List, I found the info you asked about Rick on T1 # 5549. According to the book Keystone Steam and Electric by Bill Edson, #5549 was one of the last built. Construction # 72788. It was built along side #5546, 5547 and 5548. August of 1946 was its completion date. It was also one of the last to be dropped from the roster as was 8 others, January of 1956. How long they stayed on the property and where it may have been cut up is anyones guess. Could have been Sharpsburg, Pa were alot of locos met the torch.......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WSpald3557@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:53:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] Amtrak Three Rivers Do any of you schedule gurus know how late the morning train #40 "Three Rivers" is running between Greensburg and Altoona. Schedule shows Greensburgh 9:27 am and Altoona 11.25 am. We are scheduling a trip to altoona to view the various local attractions and sure would like to have a decent day of it. Thanks for any advice Willard Spalding ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:45:07 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR hoppers used in Mass Interstate construction Dennis Rockwell wrote: > I have a reprint of a B&M Bulletin article on the Saugus > Branch (Saugus is a northern Boston suburb), and the last > photo, dated 8 April 1968, is of a train that had brought > gravel fill for an Interstate Highway project from a quarry > in New Hampshire; the train itself is a solid string of > Pennsy hoppers. > > Can anybody tell me how a PRR hopper train came to haul > gravel from New Hampshire to Saugus? Was this a backhaul > opportunity for a coal train for the Bow power plant, > perhaps? > > Thanks! > > Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA > > I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Dennis, I moved to NH in 1975. Doubt this was back-haul from Bow. There is a power plant in Newington, the Schiller generation station that was converted from coal in 1975. I was a security guard there while a grad student at UNH. My understanding is that this material came from the eastern part of the state around Ossipee. At the present time there are, I believe, two gravel operations that ship to Boston. One is in Ossipee up the eastern side of the state general following Rt. 16. This is the line that handled snow trains from Boston to North Conway. At present the line ends in Ossipee. So, maybe it was back haul from this plant. The other is an operation in Milford, NH on a line that used to run from Nashua to Keene in the western part of the state. That line runs only to the area of a match factory about 10 mile west of Milford. Most of the western part of the line is unused. A private short-line runs the line from Wilton (the next town over from Milford) to the interchange with Gilford in Nashua. As you can see from my qualifiers, I'm guessing on some of this. I will check with my sources (one is a dispatcher for Guilford) and see what they know. Regards, Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:36:19 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] Question about CT 1000's Greetings to Ted and the group, Yes the E seems to indicate PRR's Eastern Region. There is a CT 1000 C for the Central Region. They show up at train shows and the antique stores around here quite often. The CT 1000 without any leters at the end is the complete document. It's twice as wide, has the same hard black cover but has a loose leaf binding. This one too show up at the train shows and antique shops too. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 01:36 PM 6/15/99 EST, you wrote: > Dear PRR Gang: > > I have a question about this interesting PRR manual. I came across a copy > of this book in a prototypical Train Show in Kane County (west of Chicago) > this past weekend. It was a "CT 1000 E" from May 1945 and covered the PRR > approximatley east of Harrisburg or Buffalo. > > My question is the "E" in the "CT 1000 E" stand for the Eastern Region? > Were there other CT 1000's made for other PRR regions? I am looking for a > CT 1000's that cover the western end of the railroad in Indiana. Illinois, > and Ohio (In particular the Ft. Wayne Line, the Panhandle, and the South > Bend Branch) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy hopper book Date: Wed, 16 Jun 99 12:30:12 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/16/99 10:59 AM, Jason Jaquith (jaj165@psu.edu) wrote: >A while back, someone mentioned that a book on Pennsy's open hopper fleet >is supposed to be released this fall. This book is supposed to be a >compolation of the articles on the hoppers that appeared in Model >Railroading in 93/94. I have a few of these issues and the articles are >great sources of info for both the historian and modeler. I was wondering >if anybody has more info on when this book will be released and how you can >order it. The book will be published by Highlands Station and is due out September 1/. It is a softcover book of 112 pages. The retail price is $19.95, but my company, "Merchandise Service" (the sponsor of this list), offers it for $17.95 on advance reservation. The publishers description reads: "Finally! The story of Pennsy's huge fleet of hopper cars and how to model them effectively. Noted author, historian and modeler John Teichmoeller takes you through all known classes of hoppers, including the minor ones! This softcover book features hundreds of prototype and model photos and is complete with charts and graphs for the freight-car enthusiast. The "Standard Railroad of the World" owned tens of thousands of these cars, and they could be found on most railroads east of the Mississippi. No matter what railroad you model, you'll want the information and photos contained in this important publication." See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/index.html and search for vendor="Highlands Station" to order. The book you want is item # HISTA-0001. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:59:57 -0400 From: Jason Jaquith Subject: [PRR] Pennsy hopper book A while back, someone mentioned that a book on Pennsy's open hopper fleet is supposed to be released this fall. This book is supposed to be a compolation of the articles on the hoppers that appeared in Model Railroading in 93/94. I have a few of these issues and the articles are great sources of info for both the historian and modeler. I was wondering if anybody has more info on when this book will be released and how you can order it. Jason ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:52:38 EDT Subject: [PRR] Teichmoeller - Pennsy hopper book I highly recommend it sight unseen I have the book should include the whole series - including articles published in "The Keystone" and some previously unpublished material will be great to have it all in one place Will be ordering mine, from Jerry as soon as I have a chance to surf over to "Keystone Crossings" Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:29:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H-10-44s on the Panhandle(wasSpecificdiesel In a message dated 6/16/99 10:02:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, herzog@icanect.net writes: << I am not sure of this but I think the Pennsy had in mind a 2-10-6 locomotive with a huge firebox. The O scale model railroad in Akron Ohio had two or three models of it running around the layout and I would assume they got the drawings from SOMEWHERE! Bill >> Wow -- a cross between a Texas and an Allegheny type. Sounds like something the UP would conceive. Rick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy hopper book Date: Wed, 16 Jun 99 17:12:32 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/16/99 12:30 PM, Jerry (jerry@dsop.com) wrote: >See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/index.html and search >for vendor="Highlands Station" to order. The book you want is item # >HISTA-0001. If you try the above URL and get an error, try http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ The error is a result of a new "feature" with our web server software that seems to be causing some difficulty for some users. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] A-5s and 44 tonner assignments Hi All... Since some of you all need this info i'm passing this along. This is from the May 1975 Trains article. I'll list these by division or region. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A-5s Divisional assignments as of 1939 Philadelphia Terminal Division No's. 1289,1168,1332,891,713,76,477,411,913,1540,1215,94,1690,2762, 172,677,560,606,610,1587,1591,1098,549,156,2041,855,3890, 3892,3893,3894,3895 Philadelphia Division No's 4039,371,330,3891 New York Division No's 511,561,1661,643,136 Maryland Division No's 112,761 Wilkes-Barre No's 1270,1800 Fort Wayne No. 730 Williamsport No. 1203 Sold...No. 281 Sold to Worth Steel Co. of Claymont, Del.... (Later Colorado Fuel and Iron.) Was sold in 1930. Engine No. 94 is at the railroad museum of Penna. Engines built 12/1916,1/1917,11/1917 and 3/1924 (No's 3890 thru 3895.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- GE 44 Tonner Regional assignments as of 1963 Philadelphia Region No's 9323,9325,9333,9337,9340,9341,9342,9343,9345,9346,9347,9348, 9349,9353,9356 Altoona Works No's 9312,9324,9329,9331,9332,9334,9335,9336,9339 New York Region No's 9314,9316,9320,9321,9338,9355 Southwestern Region No's 9315,9330,9351 Northern Region No's 9352,9354,9357 Northwestern Region No. 9326 Buckeye Region No. 9317 PRSL No. 9328 Retired No's 9313,9318,9319,9322,9327,9350 Scrapped No. 9344 (due to fire at Meadows,N.J. roundhouse in 1962.) Engines built 1947,1948 and 1949 Engines No's.9325-9349 380 H.P, 9312-9324 and 9350-9357 400 H.P. Some engines were sold to other smaller railroads over the years. Engine 9331 was sold to the Strasburg RR as their No. 33 The article also gives a listing (as of 1975) of the engines sold to other railroads. Its possible some of them are still around today. Well thats it...have fun. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] FW: Whit Towers Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:56:09 -0400 Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Whit Towers > ><< From: "Don Mitchell" > > Gary Wilson, who was Whit's primary helper on the ALP, sent this note > to me: > > "After several years of declining health, Whit passed away yesterday > (Sat, 6/12) at his home. He was 82 years old. In accordance with his > wishes he will be cremated and his ashes returned to Detroit to be > interred with his family. We have all lost a good friend." > > Sadly, > Don >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Model Questions! PRR MODELERS, These questions go out to the modelers on this list. Quite a few years ago, I am taking a guess at about 20, there was a fellow in the PRRT&HS who lived in Canada. His name was John Stewart. He passed away 6-7 or so years ago. He was an avid PRR Modeler also. He was known for his great looking Brass Engravings of Locomotive Keystones. True to scale! Does anyone have any of these on hand I can purchase or knows any info on where I can locate any. They came on a sheet of brass already engraved. You had to cut them out yourself. I was told they came 20 to a sheet which was roughly 2"x2". They were also available 200 per sheet but havn't been able to confirm that. I am in need of these. I am not interested in the ones put out by Custom Railway Supply! Second question. I am in search of an HO scale PRR J1 that was imported by Key in 1985. Maybe interested in the 1992 run but prefer the '85 run. painted or unpainted. Would settle for a used one that is in excellent++++ condition. Does anyone out there have one for sale or knows a shop that does? If so state asking price and condition and I will get back. Thanks, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "HWHolmes" Subject: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:20:40 -0400 Any one ever hear of dolphin trucks? Rumored to have been under some PRR tenders? Bert Holmes ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:40:51 -0400 From: sam reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Endangered Sites Jerry, Wasn't the fire at the Michigan City plant? The reason I ask this, is that when I attended the Monon Railroad Technical/Historical Society annual meeting a couple of years ago we took a trip to Michigan City. The tour guide talked about the fire at this facility, and how it lead to the new development there. Just thought I'd ask. Sam Reynolds Jerry wrote: > Was reading USA Today's site and followed a link to "Endangered sites > list for 1999": > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/ndsmon04.htm > > Out of "The 11 most endangered sites of 1999," as listed by the National > Trust for Historic Preservation, three may be of interest to "us": > > >Hulett Ore Unloaders, Cleveland. > >Pullman Administration Building and Factory Complex, Chicago. > >West side of downtown Baltimore. > > Hulett's are discussed regularly on PRR-Talk. > Not sure if the Pullman entry was before or after the fire. > The Baltimore entry is probably more relevant to the B&O. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks Bert-List Dolphin trucks was the name given to the trucks used on G-5 tenders. It is too early in the morning for me to remember the classification. Bowser makes these in HO scale if youare a modeler. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:10:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: T-1 number plates The number plates referred to in the several messages on this topic are in the collection of the Altoona Association of Model Railroaders. This group was previously located in the old Webster School Bldg at Lexington Avenue and 10th Street (3rd Floor) with an elaborate train layout running through several of the rooms. With the abandonment and subsequent demolition of this structure by the City of Altoona (Altoona Parks and Recreation Commission) (year ?), the AAMR moved to the 12th Ward Civic Center (Oak Ave & 30th Street) (one block from "three-culverts" where Mill Run Road runs under the ex-PRR (NS) Mainline; the 12th Ward Civic Center, in fact, is adjacent to the main line west of Altoona. AAMR occupies the entire second floor, and the model train layout occupies the entire floor in various guages, and meets regularly on Friday evenings. I anticipate that AAMR will also be open to the public the weekend of the PRT&HS Convention in Altoona. I am not a member of AAMR, but a good contact person would be Fred Shaefer of PRRT&HS in Altoona, a long time member of this group. AAMR undoubtedly, has a most distinctive collection of PRR memorabilia in the area. Dave Seidel Altoona, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Questions! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:32:47 -0400 Second question. I am in search of an HO scale PRR J1 that was imported by Key in 1985. Maybe interested in the 1992 run but prefer the '85 run. painted or unpainted. Gary, I have both of these runs, but they are not for sale right now. The reason for my reply is to let you know of a serious flaw in the '92 model. The upper portion of the tender sides along the coal bunker were left pointing straight up by the model builder (Samhongsa) rather than being angled in as on the '85 run and every other PRR tender that I've seen. I have never been able to find a photograph of a prototype tender which has the sides of the bunker standing straight up. Imagine my surprise the day that model arrived! Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks Date: Thu, 17 Jun 99 05:44:04 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/16/99 10:20 PM, HWHolmes (hwholmes@prodigy.net) wrote: >Any one ever hear of dolphin trucks? Rumored to have been under some PRR >tenders? Yes, and Bowser sells them. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ Do a search on Manufacturer = Bowser Keyword = Dolphin --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:01:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Colors (PRR) Either I am stating the obvious which everyone already assumes, or it is something being overlooked here. While I personally have always thought Scalecoat (unfortunately, not environmentally friendly) had the best "out of the bottle" tuscan red, the base color or coat makes all the difference, no matter what road color you are applying. I have used two approaches. Generally I like a "redder" tuscan (personal preference) rather than purple, so even the Scalecoat over black plastic (for example) doesn't meet my preferences. I either apply a base coat of gray or, as I have done in a few resin or whatever kits (such as BCW B60 baggage kits) where the casting material wasn't opaque, I painted the inside and out with the Scalecoat tuscan. This achieves the nice rich color I am partial to. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:53:51 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks >Bert-List > > Dolphin trucks was the name given to the trucks used on G-5 tenders. >It is too early in the morning for me to remember the classification. >Bowser makes these in HO scale if youare a modeler. Gary I believe that they were class 2D-T4 or 2E-T4 (or both?) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] A-5s and 44 tonner assignments Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:45:02 -0400 One of the great mysteries regarding the 44 tonners is that we can't find anywhere where its recorded as to which of the Altoona Works 44 tonners had mu on one end and which had it on both ends. There were at least two with mu on both ends but I kick myself for never photographing them. Since cameras were verbotten within the confines of Juniata you would have had to catch them going by union station and I was working inside the fence during the day when they made their once a day voyage to South Altoona shop. if anyone has the answer to this riddle it would be greatly appreciated as it is one of the missing links in a definitive book on PRR diesels that is about to go to press. BTW the 9328 worked at Atlantic City and I have a shot of that one in action. Was that the one that wound up on the Union Transportation Co. replacing the last steamer and ultimately became Penn Central 9999? I forget now. Bill ---------- > From: bubbles@visi.net > To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] A-5s and 44 tonner assignments > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:17 PM > > > Hi All... > > Since some of you all need this info i'm passing this along. > This is from the May 1975 Trains article. > I'll list these by division or region. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A-5s Divisional assignments as of 1939 > > Philadelphia Terminal Division > No's. 1289,1168,1332,891,713,76,477,411,913,1540,1215,94,1690,2762, > 172,677,560,606,610,1587,1591,1098,549,156,2041,855,3890, > 3892,3893,3894,3895 > > Philadelphia Division > No's 4039,371,330,3891 > > New York Division > No's 511,561,1661,643,136 > > Maryland Division > No's 112,761 > > Wilkes-Barre > No's 1270,1800 > > Fort Wayne > No. 730 > > Williamsport > No. 1203 > > Sold...No. 281 Sold to Worth Steel Co. of Claymont, Del.... > (Later Colorado Fuel and Iron.) Was sold in > 1930. > Engine No. 94 is at the railroad museum of Penna. > > Engines built 12/1916,1/1917,11/1917 and 3/1924 (No's 3890 thru 3895.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > GE 44 Tonner Regional assignments as of 1963 > > Philadelphia Region > No's 9323,9325,9333,9337,9340,9341,9342,9343,9345,9346,9347,9348, > 9349,9353,9356 > > Altoona Works > No's 9312,9324,9329,9331,9332,9334,9335,9336,9339 > > New York Region > No's 9314,9316,9320,9321,9338,9355 > > Southwestern Region > No's 9315,9330,9351 > > Northern Region > No's 9352,9354,9357 > > Northwestern Region > No. 9326 > > Buckeye Region > No. 9317 > > PRSL > No. 9328 > > Retired > No's 9313,9318,9319,9322,9327,9350 > > Scrapped > No. 9344 (due to fire at Meadows,N.J. roundhouse in 1962.) > > Engines built 1947,1948 and 1949 > Engines No's.9325-9349 380 H.P, 9312-9324 and 9350-9357 400 H.P. > > Some engines were sold to other smaller railroads over the years. > Engine 9331 was sold to the Strasburg RR as their No. 33 > The article also gives a listing (as of 1975) of the engines > sold to other railroads. Its possible some of them are still > around today. > > Well thats it...have fun. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:55:03 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks According to an article in the PRRT&HS _Keystone_ some years back (I do not remember which issue), a "dolphin" was the part of the truck assembly over the journal boxes which gave the truck its distinctive appearance. Steve Bartlett HWHolmes wrote: > > Any one ever hear of dolphin trucks? Rumored to have been under some PRR > tenders? > Bert Holmes > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR HO KEY J1 List, I received an email from Jerry B. on this list. I already replied back to him but forgot to send the letter to this list. Jerry stated he was disappointed in the 1992 run of the HO scale PRR J1 Model imported by Key Imports. He stated the coal bunkers were not angled the correct way. Instead, this run had straight coal boards. It seems not to many people are aware of this feature on a handful of Pennsy J1 tenders. Key DID model it correctly. For photographic proof I will try to post an address of a photo for people to view this feature. I remember when the model was first released, diehard PRR Modelers had that same opinion that Key goofed up. It wasn't till they seen actual photo proof when they were assured the model was correct........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR J1 Steve, Jerry and list, I have found my photo that I had put on the internet a while back. It is of J1 #6496 with the straight coal bunker. Although it is difficult to make out plainly, it does have the straight coal bunker. Interesting note about this picture is this J1 is also carrying a auxailary J1? tender for extra water. This photo was taken in Sandusky Ohio in 1953. Here is the pic address: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr6496.jpg .........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Questions! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:18:47 -0500 Jerry and Gary--I have not seen the Key model you are discussing, but the flaw you describe sounds like J1 6471 as shown on page 105 of Pennsy Steam Years Vol. 2. I have seen this tender mod on other J1's, too, but this one came most easily to hand. Hard to know for sure, but maybe clearances in Ohio were not so crucial and this change allowed a little more coal to be carried. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL > >Gary, > I have both of these runs, but they are not for sale right now. >The reason for my reply is to let you know of a serious flaw in the '92 >model. The upper portion of the tender sides along the coal bunker were left >pointing straight up by the model builder (Samhongsa) rather than being >angled in as on the '85 run and every other PRR tender that I've seen. I >have never been able to find a photograph of a prototype tender which has >the sides of the bunker standing straight up. Imagine my surprise the day >that model arrived! >Jerry Breon > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:52:49 -0500 Bert--They were also used under at least some of the E-6 tenders. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL > Dolphin trucks was the name given to the trucks used on G-5 >tenders. >It is too early in the morning for me to remember the >classification. >Bowser makes these in HO scale if youare a modeler. Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR MODEL PHOTO! List, Hello, I think it is time for another PRR Model Photo. Being that the subject of E6's is going around, I figured I would post an E photo. Although this is not an E6, this is her little sister, the E7s. This is a Key Imports brass model that was released in 1989. This was an unpainted model but I painted and finished it to closely match the Factory painted Key E3sd that I also have. This model represented the loco how it looked in the the 1930's. But I needed something to haul a Passenger Train from the early 1900's so I removed the electric headlight and replaced it with the old style oil burning headlight. It totally changed its' appearance in my opinion. To check out the photo go here: http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/keye7.jpg Thanks..........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:43:28 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1 Iron Bells Gary: Funny, your brass bell equipped #4932 is listed as built 3/43, which was at the height of the WWII "strategic materials" crisis. Copper was, of course, extremely important for the war effort, and a main ingredient of brass. Many recall the steel 1943 pennies. Now, where-oh-where did I read of the iron bells on the wartime GG1's? --Robert Livingston Gary Farmer wrote: > Robert & list: > My GG1 bell is brass. It came from engine #4932. Don't know about any > others. > Gary Farmer > > Robert wrote: > The bells on GG1's were allegedly made of iron on the World War Two > produced electrics (1941-1945). When the GG1's came to New Haven in the > PC days, I noticed their bells made a "thunk thunk" or a "clunk clunk" > sound rather than a true, ringing "ding ding". > > Question is, were these the iron bells? I never did hear one with a good > clear ring, as I would expect from a true brass bell > -- Robert Livingston ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:31:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR HO KEY J1 In a message dated 6/17/99 3:42:12 PM EST, mittner@webtv.net writes: << I remember when the model was first released, diehard PRR Modelers had that same opinion that Key goofed up. It wasn't till they seen actual photo proof when they were assured the model was correct........Gary >> Just goes to prove that the old "Never say Never" continues to be very true when it comes to the PRR - (did you notice that one A-5 assigned to Ft Wayne?) I'm still looking for photographic evidence of E-6s in Indiana or OHIO we know now that 4 Were assigned to Fort Wayne in the late 30's to mid 40's Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew storck" Subject: [PRR] K-4's Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:12:51 -0700 What were the numbers of the K-4's that were painted tuscan red? Thanks, Andrew Storck ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR E-6 PROOF!!! Dick and List, You asked for photographic proof of an E6 in Indiana or Ohio? You got it!!! After checking all my photos of E6's, I have a nice selection, I couldn't find one in there. I started looking through my Book Collection and low and behold, an E6 in someplace else other then the east. If you have the book APEX OF THE ATLANTICS, great book by the way, look on page 148. There you will see a photo of E6 #1649. Now I will admit the photo could be taken anywhere on the Pennsy system. But if you look carefully you will see the assignment stenciling on the pilot beam. You will see the letters, WN. What does this tell you? This tells you #1649 was assigned to the WESTERN REGION- NORTHWESTERN DIVISION. This loco then was either assignned to the Crestline, Fort Wayne , St. Claire Ave- Columbus, Toledo, Logansport or the 59th St. Chicago Enginehouse. Also there is an article in this book that explains the "LOG" of #1649 for August 12, 1937. The Detroit Arrow, which was hualed by #1649, ran between the cities of Ft. Wayne and Englewood. So I guess this qualifies for proof, right?........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:06:31 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dolphin Trucks In a message dated 6/17/99 3:41:36 PM EST, steveh@dotstar.net writes: << Bert--They were also used under at least some of the E-6 tenders. >> And some H-6s (possibly the one at Strasburg) by way of Tender swaps Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Red K4's Andrew, Here are 3 of them #2761 5409 and 5436....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Points to Ponder List, Here is a couple points to ponder. There has been talk about the clanging of iron GG-1 Bells. Did you also know the J1's had Non-Brass bells too? If precious metals were in such high demand during the war years, then why did the Pennsy T1's recieve Brass Number Plates instead of the standard Cast Iron? Just some rambling thoughts!!!........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew storck" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:33:49 -0700 Does anyone know the engine numbers for 4 or 5 K-4's that were painted tuscan red? Andrew Storck Sonoma, CA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E-6 PROOF!!! Dr. Mark, I was replying to a question brought up by Dick Ross. He wanted photo proof of an E-6 in INDIANA or ohio. I gave him proof for INDIANA.........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E-6 PROOF!!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:46:59 -0400 (EDT) > pilot beam. You will see the letters, WN. What does this tell you? This > tells you #1649 was assigned to the WESTERN REGION- NORTHWESTERN > DIVISION. This loco then was either assignned to the Crestline, Fort > Wayne , St. Claire Ave- Columbus, Toledo, Logansport or the 59th St. > Chicago Enginehouse. Also there is an article in this book that > explains the "LOG" of #1649 for August 12, 1937. The Detroit Arrow, > which was hualed by #1649, ran between the cities of Ft. Wayne and > Englewood. So I guess this qualifies for proof, right?........Gary Gary, The discussion on the list included the Ft. Wayne to Chicago segment. The question, as I recall, was whether these specifically ran _in Ohio_. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Red K4s Andrew and List, I am glad you brought that Red K4s question up Andrew. It gave me an excuse to look at my K4s photo collection again. I looked at the three loco photos of which I stated earlier. I have a photo here of 5409. The photo was taken in the Meadows, N.J. in 1932. The photo is black & white so you really can't tell if she is in the Tuscan Red color. However, I noticed something different with this K4 that I never noticed on any other. We all seen the early numbering on the cab with a gold pin-stripped boarder right? Well have you ever seen the word PENNSYLVANIA on the tender with that same gold pin-stripped boarder? I don't mean the fancy gold stripping all over the tender, I am talking about just the word PENNSYLVANIA in the pin-stripped boarder. Could I have just found a photo, be it B/W, of a TUSCAN RED K4??? Take this in consderation also. These Tuscan K4's were painted this way in the early 30's for Premier Trains in the east. My photo is dated 1932 and the location is New Jersey! Is this an important "find"??? Let me know your opinions....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:51:11 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Boiler renewals for PRR steam locomotives --Boundary_(ID_nkcRpSY28DaFQfFPPCeXzw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Jerry and the List, Pennypacker and Staufer assert in The Many faces of the Pennsy K4s that some K4s locomotives had as many as three boilers during their service lifetimes. I'm curious if anyone knows if this is (firstly) true, and if so, how often a boiler renewal would be done and how long it would take. It would go a long way towards explaining the longevity of some of the K4s fleet, but any insights would be appreciated. I'm PRR T&HS member 4932, and my collection of Keystones only goes back to 1993; is the information in an earlier issue that I missed? Thanks, Doug --Boundary_(ID_nkcRpSY28DaFQfFPPCeXzw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Jerry and the List,

Pennypacker and Staufer assert in The Many faces of the Pennsy K4s that some K4s locomotives had as many as three boilers during their service lifetimes.  I'm curious if anyone knows if this is (firstly) true, and if so, how often a boiler renewal would be done and how long it would take.  It would go a long way towards explaining the longevity of some of the K4s fleet, but any insights would be appreciated.  I'm PRR T&HS member 4932, and my collection of Keystones only goes back to 1993; is the information in an earlier issue that I missed?

Thanks,
Doug --Boundary_(ID_nkcRpSY28DaFQfFPPCeXzw)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:45:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Which CD Rom has the MP 109 Form --Boundary_(ID_Ii+9ROhbfR5PCWBhnKrLyA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry and the List, I'd like to purchase the MP 109 Form from 1952, but there are several CD Roms listed; could you tell me which has it? By the way, Frederick Westing's Apex of the Atlantics has a good explanation of how the "dolphin truck" found under so many E-6s, G-5s and (through tender transfers) H6sb tenders got its name. My stuff is still in transit from Maryland, so I can't tell you exactly which page. --Boundary_(ID_Ii+9ROhbfR5PCWBhnKrLyA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry and the List,
I'd like to purchase the MP 109 Form from 1952, but there are several CD Roms listed; could you tell me which has it?  By the way, Frederick Westing's Apex of the Atlantics has a good explanation of how the "dolphin truck" found under so many E-6s, G-5s and (through tender transfers) H6sb tenders got its name.  My stuff is still in transit from Maryland, so I can't tell you exactly which page. --Boundary_(ID_Ii+9ROhbfR5PCWBhnKrLyA)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Which CD Rom has the MP 109 Form Date: Fri, 18 Jun 99 06:18:02 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/17/99 11:45 PM, doug.kisala (doug.kisala@mciworld.com) wrote: >I'd like to purchase the MP 109 Form from 1952, but there are several CD >Roms listed; could you tell me which has it? By the way, Frederick >Westing's Apex of the Atlantics has a good explanation of how the >"dolphin truck" found under so many E-6s, G-5s and (through tender >transfers) H6sb tenders got its name. My stuff is still in transit from >Maryland, so I can't tell you exactly which page. Volume 2 contains Form 109K, which is what I think you are referring to. Go to http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ Search for keyword = "DSOP-KCX2" (that's the part number) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR J1 Jerry B. and List, It looks like that site where I have the photo of the PRR J1 with the tender in question is having troubles at today. Ckeck again a little later......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR J1 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:25:20 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: doloris mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:33 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR J1 Steve, Jerry and list, I have found my photo that I had put on the internet a while back. It is of J1 #6496 with the straight coal bunker. Although it is difficult to make out plainly, it does have the straight coal bunker. Interesting note about this picture is this J1 is also carrying a auxailary J1? tender for extra water. This photo was taken in Sandusky Ohio in 1953. Here is the pic address: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr6496.jpg .........Gary Gary, I tried to access this site for the pic. and was unable to do so. I'll try again later because I really want to see these straight coal boards for myself. Steve Hoxie directed me to a photo in PRR Steam Years Vol. 2 and I'll check it out tonight. Thanks. Jerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:53:59 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR E-6 SEMI PROOF - For Mr Al Stauffer In a message dated 6/17/99 11:46:14 PM EST, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << There is an article in "Apex of the Atlantic's" which > explains the "LOG" of #1649 for August 12, 1937. The Detroit Arrow, > which was hauled by #1649, ran between the cities of Ft. Wayne and > Englewood. So I guess this qualifies for proof, right?........Gary Gary, The discussion of the list included the Ft. Wayne to Chicago segment. The question, as I recall, was whether these specifically ran _in Ohio_. -- Mark >> Mark & Gary - In response to the original thread "Taking on Al Stauffer" who claimed that "no E-6 ever ran in Ohio" the story in Fred Westig's book "Apex of the Atlantic's" was cited as evidence that at least on in E-6 operated Fort Wayne to Chicago. Subsequently, Wayne Betty sent the numbers of 4 E-6s which were assigned to Fort Wayne - and we can put them there from the late thirties to the mid forties. So we know that they, at least passed through Ohio. Yesterday I "renewed" my request for documentation of an E-6 in either Indiana or Ohio and Gary cited the same book - and must have taken a magnifying glass and/or HO scale eyes to read the "pilot" makings - which indicate that the Locomotive was assigned to the Western Region - Northwest. Since the photo caption did not include an exact location Gary did say that the photo could have been taken "anywhere on the system" but was most likely in Ohio or Indiana. I'll take the book, the next time I see Al, but I'm STILL looking for documentation of an E-6, for sure, in OHIO.We know, from assignment charts that 4 were assigned to Fort Wayne (JUST beyond the Ohio line) - I believe that they must, on occassion, have run east, at least to Crestline. Hope that this clarifies the thread - thanks to all Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Edgar Allan Poe by Spectrum Date: Fri, 18 Jun 99 11:48:46 -0400 From: Jerry Coupla questions about the "Edgar Allan Poe" Pullman sleeper offered by Bachmann Spectrum: The prototype "EAP" on the PRR was a 12-1 sleeper. Is the Bachmann indeed a 12-1? (I've only seen photos of outside shots and I'm not a "windows" expert.) Were all 12-1's heavyweights? I've got numerous trains I want to model that had 12-1's in them in 1954. I'm looking to maybe use the Bachmann Spectrum's "as is" since they are fine running models and are nice and heavy. Bachmann does not sell touch up paint (to cover the car names/numbers) nor are they interested in selling un-named cars in the future -- I asked! However, they did tell me how to remove the lettering. I have those directions at home, if anyone needs them let me know. Are there any reasons why I should not use this car? BTW: Has anyone ever opened a Bachmann Spectrum passenger car? If so, how did you go about doing it? Bachmann left out a few details...like people! I gotta add people to the interiors of these otherwise detailed cars that include interior lighting! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 99 08:37:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR E-6 PROOF!!! In addition to this find, there is another photo of the eastbound Detroit Arrow in Englewood, Illinois hauled by an E-6. This photo appeared in the (I believe) the September 1982 issue of the "Keystone". The article that it is in covers the Chicago Terminal Division. I think the number of the E-6 is 1620 but I am not sure. I do not know if this particular engine was one of the four assigned at Ft. Wayne. One of you on the list said earlier the E-6s hauling the Detroit Arrows would stay on the train even on the Wabash RR heading into Michigan and Detroit. Was this common that PRR engines would stay on the point on the Wabash? Was it true the other way as well---I mean Wabash power on a westbound Arrow would stay on the train at Ft. Wayne and make it into Chicago? I have not seen any photos of this but then never say never!! :-) Ted M. Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] PRR E-6 PROOF!!! Author: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) at Internet Date: 6/17/99 8:01 PM Dick and List, You asked for photographic proof of an E6 in Indiana or Ohio? You got it!!! After checking all my photos of E6's, I have a nice selection, I couldn't find one in there. I started looking through my Book Collection and low and behold, an E6 in someplace else other then the east. If you have the book APEX OF THE ATLANTICS, great book by the way, look on page 148. There you will see a photo of E6 #1649. Now I will admit the photo could be taken anywhere on the Pennsy system. But if you look carefully you will see the assignment stenciling on the pilot beam. You will see the letters, WN. What does this tell you? This tells you #1649 was assigned to the WESTERN REGION- NORTHWESTERN DIVISION. This loco then was either assignned to the Crestline, Fort Wayne , St. Claire Ave- Columbus, Toledo, Logansport or the 59th St. Chicago Enginehouse. Also there is an article in this book that explains the "LOG" of #1649 for August 12, 1937. The Detroit Arrow, which was hualed by #1649, ran between the cities of Ft. Wayne and Englewood. So I guess this qualifies for proof, right?........Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:34:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Edgar Allan Poe by Spectrum In a message dated 6/18/99 5:10:41 PM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << ncidently, some of the Bachman cars I had in service had a fierce tendency to derail where nothing else was having a problem, the cars with six wheel trucks. I did some snooping and found a number of the wheels to be badly out of gauge, and with those fixed truck frames there's nothing I could do to fix 'em >> FWIW, replacing the wheelsets with 36" Intermountain metal sets makes one of the smoothest running trucks I have experienced. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:34:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Edgar Allan Poe by Spectrum Jerry, The blochman car is not a 12section car but a ten section-what? 2 cprt-1 DR? It was reveiwed in MR when it came out and is said to represent a car that was quite rare, with only a few prototypes (perhaps a couple dozen or less, if I recall), used mainly in Pullman pool service. I beleive a couple were used by the Erie and some by the Southern, perhaps. may have been only the Erie in regular service by the 50's. I don't beleive any of the factory paint jobs are accurate models, according to the reveiw. Far as I'm aware all 12s-1's were built as heavywights, though some 14s were built in fluted streamlining for the California Zephyr in the late 40's and the RI had some 8s-5's built as full streamliners. But the 12 section cars were getting a bit primitive even by the dawn of the lightweight era, as demand for private rooms was increasing. But the Pennsy did dress up some 12s cars nicely with balloon roofs and skirting, as well as others, I'd guess. Incidently, some of the Bachman cars I had in service had a fierce tendency to derail where nothing else was having a problem, the cars with six wheel trucks. I did some snooping and found a number of the wheels to be badly out of gauge, and with those fixed truck frames there's nothing I could do to fix 'em. I also found, at least on their B&O cars, that the lettering is a form of dry transfer that came off with any amount of handling, so I think the old Q-tip trick would take it off easily. not a problem on B&O cars cause the spacing of the words makes replacement of the lettering highly desirerable anyway. Some of the cars roll nicely, others roll like sleds. The lights are also rather flickery, so I did away with that feature, as I think the level of detail and accuracy of the interior is better left in the dark. Oh well, I sure the next fella will swear by 'em. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:59:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] Edgar Allen Poe Jerry & Folks, Your inquiry got my curiosity up, so I dug out the MR that reveiwed that Pullman. luckily I have a few more memory cells left than I thought, and found the article in April, 1998 MR. Seems there were 27 of these cars, all rebuilds to Pullman plan 4074, diagram 67, with 10 sections, 1 drawing room and 2 double bedrooms. They were used by C&O (retired before 1950, according to a Trains mag article), Lackawanna, Erie, Lehigh Valley, Louisville & Nashville and Southern, as well as one pool service car. It'll be interesting to see what Branchlines eventually brings out along these lines, and I think we can expect pretty good accuracy from those folks, if prior production is any clue. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: Paint for Spectrum Passenger Cars Date: Fri, 18 Jun 99 20:24:23 -0400 From: Jerry I asked Bachmann about touch up paint for their Spectrum passenger cars -- or for unnamed/unnumbered cars. Here's their response: > >We're sorry to say that we do not offer "touch up" paint. The logistics of >maintaining an inventory on all the colors we use is something we're not >equipped to handle, since our products are not manufactured here. > >To remove the numbers without damaging the paint, we suggest using rubber >cement thinner and a Q-tip. Softly dab and flick the number in one >direction >only. >This should lift the printing ink off of the paint. > >Bachmann Industries Based on the numerous replies -- thanks -- I will not be using the Bachmann Pullman "Edgar Allan Poe" for my 12-1's. The other PRR cars, however, seem to be good vs. prototype. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Westerfield class XL MW cars Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:51:43 -0400 There was some discussion last week regarding Al Westerfield's PRR class XL MW cars being used in wire train service. The discussion in the "XL Camp Car Variations" sheet enclosed with the kit is correct but could be misinterpreted. The description of the wreck train cars using the tool car-cable car-riding/locker car and commissary car is correct, as is the description of the "four car unit for living quarters" using the riding car-sleeping cars and kitchen/diner. However the description for the wire train using a riding car w/cupola and pantograph (for grounding) and a tool/material car might be misleading to some. The riding car he is referring to in this instance is typically not the big eight window riding car it is more like the riding/locker car as far as the window arrangement goes. The cupola would be placed on the end w/o windows the pantograph on the end with windows and there was no roof bump up for water tanks it was straight like the tool and cable cars. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] LISTMASTER APOLOGY Date: Sun, 20 Jun 99 10:17:39 -0400 From: Jerry Been wondering why it's been so quiet the past coupla days...now I know...the problem was at my end! My e-mail client was having no problem sending and receiving from my mail server, and all other services worked fine. I just couldn't understand why there was no list traffic. I finally discovered that the machine the mail server resides on -- which I seldom have to check for anything -- had a full hard drive. This was unbelievable as I had run for almost 2 years with 200MB+ available! Turns out that a week or so ago when I installed new router software it enabled "full logging". In two weeks, the log file was over 200MB in size! Anyway, I just reduced the logging to what I previously had collected. The mail can now come through! Sorry! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:39:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Edgar Allan Poe by Spectrum Barry and all: I believe, and I think Andy Harmon shared this, that the Bachmman was a plan that was heavier toward Southeastern roads. C&O was a big buyer, Southern, L&N and a couple other of which Erie could have be one. But the exciting thing is that there was at least one in the Pullman pool. And the chance of that car ending up on my consist is pretty darn good considering that the PRR too a 10-2-1 the day my consist came through just to reverse route this car west or was that east? Have if we can have at least 4 cars painted in Pullman/Glidden "Brunswick Green" then I can have at least one 10-1-2 (or whatever the thing is) running in my consist considering how nicely detailed the car is. And don't start on me about the windows, because I used a mic on them and they fell within my 3 inch rule. Greg Martin BPX29@aol.com writes: << The blochman car is not a 12 section car but a ten section-what? 2 cprt-1 DR? It was reveiwed in MR when it came out and is said to represent a car that was quite rare, with only a few prototypes (perhaps a couple dozen or less, if I recall), used mainly in Pullman pool service. I believe a couple were used by the Erie and some by the Southern, perhaps. may have been only the Erie in regular service by the 50's. I don't believe any of the factory paint jobs are accurate models, according to the review >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:48:55 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: Re: [PRR] Edgar Allan Poe by Spectrum The single Pullman 10-1-2 car in pool service was named "Scenic Glade" and as far as anyone knows was painted Pullman Green. Which is not to say one could name it anything one wanted or paint it in PRR Tuscan or whatever. Mine is Pullman Green and named Trap Rock, which name is fictional, but relates to certain eastern railroads. Modifications to this car have included cutting away the partitions in the ten-section area (paired windows) so one can see daylight shining through the car. There were no partitions here, on the real cars, to divide the sections from the corridor, which is why the sections became obsolete: no privacy. I do not know why Bachman chose to put partitions there. I also removed and discarded the flush-fitting window glass, replacing it with .015 clear styrene, as I feel the optical flatness is preferable to a flush-fitting outside glass surface with a stepped inside glass surface (very strange looking, to me). The final mod is to remove the draft gear and replace with Kadee #5's. That pivoting draft gear with its "steering" linked to the truck is not necessary on my railroad, plus the draft gear boxes sagged on their pivots. Although the car looks to be lower than the Rivarossi Pullman heavyweights, it is actually correct, as the Rivarossi's are too high. Roof height for Pullmans should be 14'-0" above rail head, and body bottom-edge should be at 3'7" or so. -- Robert Livingston ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:24:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR E-6 SEMI PROOF - For Mr Al Stauffer << << There is an article in "Apex of the Atlantic's" which > explains the "LOG" of #1649 for August 12, 1937. The Detroit Arrow, > which was hauled by #1649, ran between the cities of Ft. Wayne and > Englewood. So I guess this qualifies for proof, right?........Gary Gary, The discussion of the list included the Ft. Wayne to Chicago segment. The question, as I recall, was whether these specifically ran _in Ohio_. -- Mark >> Mark & Gary - In response to the original thread "Taking on Al Stauffer" who claimed that "no E-6 ever ran in Ohio" the story in Fred Westig's book "Apex of the Atlantic's" was cited as evidence that at least on in E-6 operated Fort Wayne to Chicago. Subsequently, Wayne Betty sent the numbers of 4 E-6s which were assigned to Fort Wayne - and we can put them there from the late thirties to the mid forties. So we know that they, at least passed through Ohio. Yesterday I "renewed" my request for documentation of an E-6 in either Indiana or Ohio and Gary cited the same book - and must have taken a magnifying glass and/or HO scale eyes to read the "pilot" makings - which indicate that the Locomotive was assigned to the Western Region - Northwest. Since the photo caption did not include an exact location Gary did say that the photo could have been taken "anywhere on the system" but was most likely in Ohio or Indiana. I'll take the book, the next time I see Al, but I'm STILL looking for documentation of an E-6, for sure, in OHIO.We know, from assignment charts that 4 were assigned to Fort Wayne (JUST beyond the Ohio line) - I believe that they must, on occassion, have run east, at least to Crestline. Hope that this clarifies the thread - thanks to all Dick Ross >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:13:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Slate Roof Drew, I have done several articles with structures requiring slate roofs. I always use index card stock cut into strips ¼" wide and then com back through and trim up the strips at 1/8" intervals. This give you a scale lay up of 14 "X 28" slate shingle with a 14" exposure on the roof. I cement them to the roof using contact cement in the tube. Remember there are several different color slate shingles from rose to green. I can give you a run down on where the different colors came from if you are really interested. Interestingly enough my father worked for a hardware store in the Ohio Tri-State area in the 50's and he told me that they used to ship in via boxcar in wooden crates, sounds like an other siding to me. It depends on where they are shipped from and for some buildings the mixture was cheaper, so if it is a warehouse perhaps that would be more realistic. Greg Martin ===================================================================== Drew wrote: Anyone have any suggestions how to go about modeling a slate roof? I'm building a RDG wood interlocking tower with a slate roof out of styrene. My only thought so far has been to make styrene "shingle strips" and affix them to the subroof. Drew ============================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:49:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] THE FINAL INDIGNITY ? Just south of Cleveland today I passed under the old NYC "Shortline" - a bypass route of Downtown Cleveland, now under CSX control. "Overhead" was a short train of Gondolas pulled by two Blue units - trailing a PRR N5c painted Grey, with black roof and trucks but stenciled NYC - Think of the stink if a Model Manufacturer had down that......... Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:32:57 -0400 From: David ott Subject: [PRR] GG-1 Repaint Guys, I am planning to repaint a GG-1 (IHC) DGLE with single stripe and shadow keystone and I have a couple of questions. 1. What brand of DLGE would you choose and would use primer gray first? 2. Do I have any other choice, other then Microscales # 67 - Pennsy Single Diesel, for decals? Thanks in advance, Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:52:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR 0-8-0 Mother Hubbard Does anyone know if the PRR had any of these in the 1890s? Thanks, Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 Repaint Dave, To answer your qestions I wll start with the second question first. I use Micro-Scale Decals all the time and I think this is your best choice for the GG-1. They are thn-filmed decals and they go on fairly easy. Now for your first question. It will get me into trouble with the DGLE subject again. Here goes any way. I use Scalecoat Brunswick Green. But I do no use it as is. I add Loco Black until I get the color I like. It looks black indoors when painting but when I take my models outside to photograph them you can see a hint of geen. I will include a photo below to show you what I mean. Because Scale Coat paint may attack the plastic shell, (depends on how wet you apply it ) I use a primer such as Model Master gray primer. It is a much finer pigment and goes on smooth. Let that dry and then spray your perfered color. Thats the way I been doing it. You will recieve other opinions I am sure so take them all and decide what suits your needs....Gary http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/locolineup.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Mon, 21 Jun 99 21:37:28 -0400 From: Jerry The summer issue of The Keystone arrived today...and with it, the 1999 convention materials. IMHO, it is a very weak convention...so much so that I considered cancelling my hotel reservation in favor of attending the PSU/Arizona Pigskin Classic in State College (for which I have four tickets). However, I have cooled off some and will continue to weigh the situation. Here's the agenda: THURSDAY -- Early registration, 3-8 Vendor room, 4-10 Model room, 4-10 FRIDAY -- Registration, 7-? Trip to Lewistown, 7:30 a.m.- 6 p.m. (Limited to 300 people) Bus ride Rededication of station 4 hr train ride Lewistown to Burnham Return bus ride Vendor room, ? - 10 p.m. Model room, ?- 10 p.m. SATURDAY -- Registration, 7-10 Annual business meeting, 9-as needed Vendor room, after meeting - ? "Lancaster and the PRR", by Kurt Bell, 10:30-11:30 Model room, 10:30-? "Modeling PRR Maintenance of Way", by Paul Backenstose, Ken McCorry, and Joe Gotaskie, 12:30-1:45 "Prototype Signaling and Modeling Applications", by Bill Strassner, 2-4:30 Annual Banquet and Awards, 6-7:30 Close of Convention, 8 p.m. My observations: * The convention was delayed from Spring to August to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the first revenue run into Altoona, but there is not one single mention of it in the agenda! * Gone are the traditional Thursday and Friday late night open slide shows. * There is not a single seminar on Friday! You either go on the trip to Lewistown or there are no events for you! * With a whole day dedicated to Lewistown, why isn't the meeting being held there? * With the only Friday event being 12.5 hours long and two hours away, why would vendors want to display...there is nobody to show to! * There are no Saturday evening sessions after the banquet. Last year there were two and they were very well attended...I know, I sweated through them! What are your thoughts, from those planning to attend? Will you still go? If so, will you go to Lewistown, or will you stay in Altoona on Friday? Maybe we should plan a significant "PRR-Talk" event for Friday? Kudos to listmembers Joe and Ken for being presenters...evidence that the "Internet contingent" has a voice. I am going to officially request a copy of the by-laws...we need someone from our ranks to get on the board...and another the next year...the time has come for the "Online Party" to form! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:18:40 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Champ has decals for GG1 single stripe To Jerry and the List, This is in reference to the GG1 posting; Champion Decal Co.'s set EH253 will letter a PRR GG1 in the dulux gold single stripe variant. It's too modern by six years for my circa 1948 New York and Long Branch, but I hope it helps you get the engine out of the back shop. As far as ease of use, Microscale decals seem to be a little thinner than Champ decals. It's really a double-edged sword; Microscale's film is thinner, while Champ's is more durable (thus writeth the inept PRR modeller). I use Solvaset, and occasionally when I apply too much, the Microscale decals curl; if you use their decals, use their setting solutions. By the way, is your IHC GG1 one of the twin motor versions? If so, how does it run? I'm considering purchasing one. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "wbigler" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:06:14 -0400 I too had the same reaction to the convention notice. Why should I pay lots of money to take a bus to the archives we can't access and visit the station when I can do it on my own at another time for no extra cost? No tours in Altoona, like the shops. etc,etc. Several of us have elected to skip the Lewistown trip and railfan around Altoona and the hill. I'm all for a PRR-Talk group gathering at some point. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 Repaint Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:34:21 -0500 Dave--I like Gary's color mix for DGLE. You could use Scale Coat II since it is plastic compatible; I use it a lot and have had very good results. Just wait a few days after painting to do the decals. FWIW, given a choice I would opt for Champ decals. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean121982@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:23:42 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] overbrook and bryn mawr bryn mawr is a city with many well-to-do residents, therefore its a very safe place to go to. on the other hand, the overbrook neighborhood isnt too savory. its not the nicest place, but you wont get gunned down in a driveby there. i know because my cousin lived across the street from the overbrook station for 5 years while at st josephs university. sean mcdonnell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] overbrook and bryn mawr Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:20:47 -0400 How are the neighborhoods around the SEPTA Overbrook and Bryn Mawr stations? Safe, semi-safe, terrifying? I know there was a fire in the Bryn Mawr tower, is it still standing? How does it look? Thanks in advance. -Josh http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/covent/929 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 06:25:29 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/21/99 9:37 PM, Jerry (jerry@dsop.com) wrote: >IMHO, it is a very weak convention...> >... > "Modeling PRR Maintenance of Way", by Paul Backenstose, > Ken McCorry, and Joe Gotaskie, 12:30-1:45 I realized after the fact that this may not have read well. To Ken and Joe, my apologies, but your program looks like the highlight of the entire convention! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:03:46 -0400 Jerry Britton wrote: >The summer issue of The Keystone arrived today...and with it, the 1999 >convention materials. > >IMHO, it is a very weak convention... Jerry, My reaction was much the same as yours. I was a little disappointed at the lack of presentations and clinics on the schedule and am not sure that I want to spend all day Friday as part of a captive audience in Lewistown. I cannot travel to Altoona until Friday morning and wonder what will be left in the vender's room by then. Right now I'm still undecided about the whole thing, but am leaning towards staying around Altoona on Friday. Please let me know if the our group schedules any activities. Thanks. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR J1 Hello List, Last week there was a short series of comments about the J1 here on this list. I proclaimed that there was photo proof of the J1 with its tender having Straight upright coal boards. Only a few got this treatment mostlikely because of wider clearences out on the Sandusky to Columbus Route. How much extra coal this carried I do not know. So if you have an Brass HO Scale Model of the J1 Key Imports released in 1992, your tender IS correct for this varriation. Look at the pics....Gary http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/j1a.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/j1b.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 12:55:36 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/22/99 12:23 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >At first I was disappointed that I would miss this years convention because >of a family wedding. But after seeing the agenda, I don't think I will be >missing much. Even thoughts of just going on Friday are rapidly evaporating. And to think they had an extra four months to plan it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 09:29:05 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/22/99 9:03 AM, jbreon (jbreon@email.msn.com) wrote: >>IMHO, it is a very weak convention... > >Jerry, > My reaction was much the same as yours. I was a little disappointed at >the lack of presentations and clinics on the schedule and am not sure that I >want to spend all day Friday as part of a captive audience in Lewistown. I >cannot travel to Altoona until Friday morning and wonder what will be left >in the vender's room by then. Right now I'm still undecided about the whole >thing, but am leaning towards staying around Altoona on Friday. Please let >me know if the our group schedules any activities. Thanks. The responses to my post -- both on and off list -- seem to support my reaction. Though the Saturday program is good (except for post-dinner), the Friday program is non-existent. It does appear that there is an opening for an "Online Track". What I don't know is, who is coming and when. Who would be interested in any (or all) of the following: Friday lunch (or dinner) at Hoss's (PRR decor) Friday evening in the hotel lounge/bar for casual discussion, etc. Though I haven't heard anything through the society, I can't imagine that the Altoona model railroad club won't open its doors for an open house. This would also be good for either Friday night or Saturday (after the convention closes at 8 p.m.). I, like many others, have already seen the Horseshoe Curve and the Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum, so that really isn't a draw. Wouldn't it be nice if NS would allow us to hike up to MG to visit her in her last days? She's still due to be razed at any time. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:09:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 0-8-0 Mother Hubbard On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 Hal6963@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know if the PRR had any of these in the 1890s? Harold, Pennsy Power lists the 3 locos of the E1 class as "Juniata. 1899", sold to Long Island 12-1903. As far as I can tell, this was the only "camelback"...so I would be curious to know if there were others Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:25:52 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Jerry wrote: > On 6/22/99 12:23 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: > > >At first I was disappointed that I would miss this years convention because > >of a family wedding. But after seeing the agenda, I don't think I will be > >missing much. Even thoughts of just going on Friday are rapidly evaporating. > > And to think they had an extra four months to plan it! > Dear Listers, I understand you're disappointment with agenda, or lack thereof, I will probably be in Philly that weekend to move my daughter in at La Salle (only 2 more tuition payments!!). I was contemplating taking a run out Saturday (I'm a driving fool.), but will likely not. Re Jerry's comments above, I can also understand the thinness of the the agenda. I am very active in my community and we are suffering the same dilemma, a lack of volunteers. I am chairing a 4th of July program that has 8 committee members and 3 days of activities. I am requiring political candidates to ride because I have no marshals to keep them moving, if they walk. This year is worse because we have all the Presidential Primary candidates begging for votes. Do you want to escort Pat Buchanan off the route if he slows things up to shake hands with the great unwashed?? I'd rather they stay home for the 4th. We're trying to make this a family event. The Chamber of Commerce who ran this thing until 1997, isn't going to enter a float because they can't get people to help. The Parks & Rec Commission is considering disbanding because of lack of members. People are so stretched, that they are guarding any time off they get. Most people would rather write a check than man the dunking booth on the midway. Welcome to the world economy. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Thomas K. Trower" Subject: [PRR] for Richard Ader Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:27:20 -0400 Was Walt Burko able to help you with your question? -Josh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:23:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda At first I was disappointed that I would miss this years convention because of a family wedding. But after seeing the agenda, I don't think I will be missing much. Even thoughts of just going on Friday are rapidly evaporating. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Response re: Convention Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 20:35:05 -0400 From: Jerry I was bold and asked Walt Keely, organizer of the convention, about its shortcomings... About the open slide shows on Thursday and Friday nights: >1. No one requested provisions for a group slide show, but arrangements will >be maden if wanted. Regarding sessions after the dinner on Saturday: >2. There are several items that will occur following the banquet to include >awards and a speaker. Regarding the convention being in Altoona when the activities are in Lewistown -- or vice versa: >3. The annual meeting was postponed to allow the organization and it's >members to celebrate the first train operated by the PRR which was between >Harrisburg and Lewistown, NOT Altoona. I do not know where the error in the >KEYSTONE originated. The Society will celebrate this anniversary by >rededicating the restored Lewistown Station, which should be complete by the >meeting. Train trips through Lewistown are part of this event in which I am >sure a historian such as yourself will want to be a part. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Re[2]: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 20:29:32 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/22/99 3:41 PM, ted.andrews@woolpert.com (ted.andrews@woolpert.com) wrote: > I am just wondering, but do you think that the untimely passing of James > Lynch has anything to do with the status of the convention agenda? Was he > heavily involved in past conventions? I can see where someone heavily > involved in an organization leaves a noticeable void when they are > suddenly gone. I've been told that Walt Keely is "Mr. Convention". He organized last year's and this year's. However, the "rededication" of the Lewistown Station includes the announcement of the James Lynch Memorial Library there...hmmm, a library that only six people have access to... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rla0220@enter.net Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:28:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 06/22/99 Jerry, I do not plan to attend the Lewistown thing. I hope to do some railfanning along the main in inconspicuous places. I hope to be helping Bill Strassner on Saturday. At these conventions I kinda do my own thing anyway. Bill and a few other guys I know from my PC days, and are the only guys I know. You I have met once, and Drew and Carl are the only others I know of the group. If you plan a meeting for Friday I'll stop by and say hello. Rich A ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:37:27 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: THE FINAL INDIGNITY ? > Just south of Cleveland today I passed under the old NYC "Shortline" > - a bypass route of Downtown Cleveland, now under CSX control. "Overhead" was > a short train of Gondolas pulled by two Blue units - trailing a PRR N5c > painted Grey, with black roof and trucks but stenciled NYC - Yep....from what I understand, that's the caboose that CSX assigned to Marcy Yard (for you Clevelanders, yes, I heard that CSX has reactivated Marcy to serve customers along the Short Line). A local job has been working out of there with that caboose. Although I never saw it myself, I heard that N5C was previously painted Tuscan for some reason, and was used by CR transfer runs between Rockport and Collinwood. This is just as bad as when, about a year ago, I saw my first restenciled "NYC" Conrail freight cars, and one of them was a G41 coil gondola..... -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:56:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 Repaint David wrote: >I am planning to repaint a GG-1 (IHC) DGLE with single stripe and shadow >keystone and I have a couple of questions. > >1. What brand of DLGE would you choose and would use primer gray first? I use Poly Scale. Since it is plastic compatible, no primer is needed, but I use either floquil grey or floquil zinc chromate. I like the subtle green shade that only comes out in bright light, and the finish can be used directly for decaling (although I tend to add 8 parts paint, 1 part PolyScale gloss, 1 part Poly S airbrush thinner). I spray at around 30 PSI with a Badger 150...and I clean the %$@@%^ thing about 3 times/paint job! >2. Do I have any other choice, other then Microscales # 67 - Pennsy >Single Diesel, for decals? Seeing as I model 1944 I use the Champ 5 stripe gold decals, but I find that I have a VERY hard time getting the 5 stipe decals to sit down over the grills. It's been so frustrating that I've actually been toying with spraying gold, and then masking with chart tape and spraying DGLE. BTW, the Champ 5 stripe Dulux Gold (Yeller to southerners) are incorrect in that they have "PRR" keystones for the end doors. While "PRR" briefly appeared on the end doors, it was during the bronze gold period. Unfortunately, the set does not provide for keystones with numbers (as Jerry and I found out when looking for decals for his B-1 rat). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Mother Hubbard Locos Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 0-8-0 Mother Hubbard Bruce, Harold.List ,            The question of PRR Mother Hubard style (Camel Backs) locos came up recently here. Bruce is correct in the Pennsy did have 3 E1 class locos. Harold, these however were not 0-8-0's. Bruce forgot to mention I guess that these were 4-4-2 type Atlantic Locomotives. Built by the Altoona shops in 1899 they were later sold to the Long Island RR. Without digging deep into my book collection I believe these are the only camel backs the PRR owned. Right off hand I can't remember any others anyway. I will do some digging for info later or if someone else can confirm this please do so, that way it will save me some time. .......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] GG1 Painting, List, Concerning the Painting and finishing of the GG1 in question. I do beieve I used the Champ Decals for my GG1. It has been awhile and kinda slipped my mind. It was done awhile back when I think Champ first produced the BLUE RIBBON line set of decals. Nice complete set if I remember correctly. The use of Solveset can be tricky. I use the stuff made by Microscale. It is a little weaker then the Walthers stuff so less risk of decal damage. Solveset is good for those "tuff" areas though like the GG1 side air intakes. .......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 99 14:41:56 EST Subject: Re[2]: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda I am just wondering, but do you think that the untimely passing of James Lynch has anything to do with the status of the convention agenda? Was he heavily involved in past conventions? I can see where someone heavily involved in an organization leaves a noticeable void when they are suddenly gone. Ted ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Author: Jerry at Internet Date: 6/22/99 12:55 PM On 6/22/99 12:23 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >At first I was disappointed that I would miss this years convention because >of a family wedding. But after seeing the agenda, I don't think I will be >missing much. Even thoughts of just going on Friday are rapidly evaporating. And to think they had an extra four months to plan it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:24:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE: Convention Agenda I was only going to go out for one day, and since it's a three hour trip I wanted to pick a day full of clinics and vendor time, etc... I really don't see any day that fits my requirements! I probably won't go this year. Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: J-1 (2-10-4) MORE! Ed, You are going to make everyone go crazy over this one. I know several people who over the years have researched this subject. I think they are ready to enter a mental home because of all the varients they keep coming up with. Kidding aside, this is a very difficult task to do. I have some loco info here if someone wants to tackle the job as an online secretary to keep track of all info that comes in. Now lets see where should I start? There were about 12 ? J's that had outside sanders. I have photo's of 6473, 6456, 6453, and 6475. I believe there are some published in Pennsy Power 1, 2 or 3 as well. I will have to ask my buddies what locos they know had these sandlines. Of the 4 engines I mentioned above, none have antenna on the tenders. I was told the J1 tenders "never" left its matching Loco unlike pretty much every other class, so I asume no photo will show up with one of those J's with antenna. Could be and probably wrong on that! J1 pictures that I do have which have the antenna are 6403, 6431,6484,6495,6496 and 6498. I don't have alot but that is what I can come up with. I am sure there are at least a dozen more that are documented. Now how about the tender with straight coal boards? I posted one this morning, (can't remember the nmber), 6496,6498 and I believe about 4 ? others. 6498 even has the antenna system. Very complicated isn't it. That just touches the basic variations. There are others also like the Notch Noses, Frame construction, etc. Someone even told me that J1 # 6475 was built with a Q-2 cab as an experiment prior to building the 25 production run Q2's. Anyone else ever hear of that one? Anyone else care to throw in some info they may have on J's. It can become very involved as you can see.......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:17:09 -0400 From: Livingston Subject: [PRR] 1944 Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > > Seeing as I model 1944 ...... By golly, so do I. My road is named the East New York and draws on PRR and New Haven chiefly, mostly electrified (wires still invisible). A branch extending northward reaches into the area of Chatham, New York, somehow. Heavy milk traffic here. One of the interesting aspects of 1944 railroading is that one can run resurrected, formerly retired wood coaches for bringing those war workers to the rapidly expanding defense plants. One of the questions bugging me is whether I can get away with using arch bar trucks on some 5-10% of my interchange (foreign road) equipment. I do know that they were first outlawed in 1938, with an extension to 1941. Did they really cease to be used in interchange in '41? Did some hang on until '44? Never say never..... --- Robert Livingston ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:41:38 EDT Subject: [PRR] J-1 (2-10-4) MORE! Friends, Now let's discuss J-1s with exposed/covered sand lines and more.Those of you still coveting those AHM machines should have an interest in this one. Somebody want to keep notes? List the locomotive number, type of sand lines (exposed/covered), train phone (yes/no), throw in the coal board style (angled/straight) if you know what it is. Come on guys dig deep! Give us your source so others may share. How about this: #6412 covered, angled, no. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg. 91 #6482 covered, angled, yes. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg.91 #6488 covered, angled, yes. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg.92 Ed Martin "a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:40:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 0-8-0 Mother Hubbard The mystery continues! The copy of the photograph I have is PRR 0-8-0 Camelback No. 872 photographed at the Bear Ridge Collier, Philadelphia and Reading Coal and Iron Company in the 1890s. The fireman's station is covered by a very large canopy that covers the entire coal bunker of the tender. DOes anyone have any additional information on this locomotive? Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:25:43 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Convention Agenda From: "Doug and Marianne" I haven't received my agenda yet, but it sounds light. The last convention in Altoona toured the Juniata loco shops and the Holidaysburg car shops. These were great tours but there is so much to sightseeing to do in the Altoona area, I doubt that I will be bored. I know that this is an all volunteer event, but I would like to see more communication between the host committee and members with requests for programs. We could raise the issue at the business meeting. I would be willing to put together a program if I knew it was needed. (I have a program on PRR advertising if there is interest.) Friday is a good day with lots of traffic on the railroad. Between the Curve, the Brickyard, Tunnel Hill, Galitzin, and Cresson there is a lot to see. There is also some interesting railroad-related hiking in the area such as the short hike to the Staple Bend Tunnel (first railroad tunnel in America) and a trail on the old interurban line between South Fork and Johnstown that parallels the route of the 1889 flood and the Pennsy mainline. You can also hike or bike around the Muleshoe curve. The museums in the area are worth a visit also: the new RR museum building in Altoona, the Portage Railroad visitor center near Cresson, the Flood Memorial in St. Michael and the Flood Museum in Johnstown. Claus and I will be coming from California, we need very little to justify a trip to Altoona. See you there. Let me know if others are interested in some additional activities on Friday or Sunday. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] GG-1 Repaint Dave Ott (daott@erols.com) writes: << Guys, I am planning to repaint a GG-1 (IHC) DGLE with single stripe and shadow keystone and I have a couple of questions. 1. What brand of DLGE would you choose and would use primer gray first?>> My favorite mixture of DGLE is Testors Gloss Black in the ¼ oz. with a few drops of FLOQUIL Brunswick Green. Sparingly on the green please! << 2. Do I have any other choice, other then Microscales # 67 - Pennsy Single Diesel, for decals?>> Well, try #87-39 for the five stripes, but otherwise I think you are stuck. Thanks in advance, Dave>> Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:48:03 EDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda In a message dated 6/22/99 8:46:20 PM Central Daylight Time, ted.andrews@woolpert.com writes: << I am just wondering, but do you think that the untimely passing of James Lynch has anything to do with the status of the convention agenda? Was he heavily involved in past conventions? I can see where someone heavily involved in an organization leaves a noticeable void when they are suddenly gone. >> We and the society will certainly miss Jim Lynch's contributions,but it is probably an overall fact of life: the Pennsy historical society, more than most of the ones I see in the Midwest, is firmly rooted before World War II. Any steam later than 1938, all diesel, and almost all modern freight cars and streamlined passenger equipment are nonexistent in coverage. Eventually, age catches up and if the Society stops at WWII, it will run out of guys to make presentations except by secondary research. Bob Reid was one of the few who covered the diesel era (I am talking about drawings and some narrative, not just pictures (although the Pennsy Diesel years and Pennsy Power books do a good job of the latter). Except for the Pullman Standard book,, very little streamlined passenger coverage exists. And, though I model earlier, any one of the Midwest historical societies would have certainly covered the coil cars. Ever see an article in the Keystone on a diesel or a P-S or Budd passenger car or a modern freight car (exept the ore jennnies) ? Or one that did justice to a duplex? In summary, we have covered every china pattern (no complaints from me, I appreciate Loewy's designs, whatever they may be) but nary a covered wagon article. Any member of the Burlington, North Western, Milwaukee, or other historical societies out here would consider that absurd. Another pet subject of mine besides the era problem is the geographical coverage. Hard to believe that all those WB freights out of Enola and Conway just disapperared into the Bermuda Triangle. Unfortunately, I was too busy with school in the 50's to railran, but someone must have visited 55th St. and 59th St. Yard in Chicago sometime with a camera and someone must have a track chart. Done venting. Feel better now. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR J1's Ed, List, Here is a couple more things to look for that varied on the J class. Look to see what class lights are on the smoke box. Most are oval shaped but a few had the bullseye styles that were in use on the later day front end modified locos, K's, I's, etc. And here is a good one. Look for the J's that had the old type Sunbeam Golden Glow Headlight instead of the smaller "peanut" style headlight. Not many had this large light......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 08:54:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1's Dear PRR List: In regards to the varieties of the J-1, has anyone published a list of J-1 engine numbers that had the "exposed" sand pipes? I have run into a couple of pictures of these engines but have not seen a list of numbers. Ted ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] PRR J1's Author: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) at Internet Date: 6/23/99 12:57 AM Ed, List, Here is a couple more things to look for that varied on the J class. Look to see what class lights are on the smoke box. Most are oval shaped but a few had the bullseye styles that were in use on the later day front end modified locos, K's, I's, etc. And here is a good one. Look for the J's that had the old type Sunbeam Golden Glow Headlight instead of the smaller "peanut" style headlight. Not many had this large light......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:41:51 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: THE FINAL INDIGNITY ? Jerry Jordak wrote: > > Just south of Cleveland today I passed under the old NYC "Shortline" > > - a bypass route of Downtown Cleveland, now under CSX control. "Overhead" was > > a short train of Gondolas pulled by two Blue units - trailing a PRR N5c > > painted Grey, with black roof and trucks but stenciled NYC - > > Yep....from what I understand, that's the caboose that CSX assigned to > Marcy Yard (for you Clevelanders, yes, I heard that CSX has > reactivated Marcy to serve customers along the Short Line). A local job > has been working out of there with that caboose. Although I never saw it > myself, I heard that N5C was previously painted Tuscan for some reason, > and was used by CR transfer runs between Rockport and Collinwood. > > This is just as bad as when, about a year ago, I saw my first restenciled > "NYC" Conrail freight cars, and one of them was a G41 coil gondola..... > > -JWJ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Hah! There is an N5C in Gorham, NH painted for Grand Trunk!! Picture I took is on caboose page. Forget URL. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:18:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Slate Roof (reply) Joel and all, I first stumbled onto the slate roof problem trying simulate a slate roof for a building article in Mainline several years back. It was such a traditional roof type for structures were I grew in Eastern Ohio along the Ohio River that I had to find a solution. So, I had a great old old architect's manual written by Kidder-Parker near the turn of the century (my copy is dated 1914 and is the third revision) that no only focused on building techniques but material alternatives and the history and supply line of products. So I looked up slate roofing and there was about 4 pages on slate (in Bible size print) and why the use, problems to watch for (like water freezing under the tile and raising the tile up), size of slate tiles, and in particular the colors available and where each color could be found. Well, for the New England states upstate New York is a good one and Vermont was specifically mentioned. I am not sure what railroads the slate quarries were on but I do know it moved by rail, and the safe bet is the reverse route empty car method. Home to East Liverpool, Ohio use a Pennsy car. Boston, perhaps a B&M or NH car. Most cars of slate roofing, which did move in box cars, would go directly in to the end user via a stub spur as is the case with Milligan's Hardware in East Liverpool, OH. But there is always the retailer without a spur and that gives you an excuse to build a neat brick warehouse and have the product transloaded, heck have two retailers and build both. If you want to know more about slate I can dig out my manual and be a bit more specific, but we are getting ready to move and that damn book was right here, now... Greg Martin ===================================================================== Joel Norman wrote: << greg: great service and great data on the slate roof and will save it for reff..but have a question?what was the main slate area of the northeast/new england and in whose cars would it be shipped and how far?????modeling 1948 so need a idea of the types of cars other then the PRR x29(Rutland have any cars in that service????)was there a company in OHIO that got the slate and shipped it to local dealers??have a warehouse or a team track in a farm field???? But thanks for the data Joel Norman >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:34:47 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Friday Night PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Greetings to the group, Since work had me tied up druing the day on Firday, the aggenda actually worked out for me; I won't be missing anything! I'll take care of setting up a get together at Hoss's Friday Evening for dinner as I have done in the past. For those who don't know, Hoss's is a family oriented restaurent (no alcohol and now smoke free) that has GREAT food cheap. Their Pleasant Valley location in Altoona has a railroad motif and I think the nicest waitresses. On Fridays and Saturdays they do not take reservations but in the past they have gone out of their way to accomodate the PRR-Talk group get togethers. Do to how busy they get on Friday evenings, I would like to suggest either a late afternoon dinner say right at 5 or early evening say around 7:30 ish. The just before 5 would be my suggestion. Anyhow, let's discuss this. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Night PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:28:01 -0400 Drew McGhee wrote: >Greetings to the group, > >Since work had me tied up druing the day on Firday, the aggenda actually >worked out for me; I won't be missing anything! I'll take care of setting >up a get together at Hoss's Friday Evening for dinner as I have done in the >past. Hi Drew, I was wondering when you would get in on this discussion. I enjoyed the dinner during Railfest '98 and will join the group this year on Friday evening if we decide to do it. Since I'll probably railfan in Altoona on Friday instead of going to Lewistown, the early dinner would be fine with me. Perhaps that would leave time to visit the model railroad club in town (if it is open) afterwards. Since you live in the area, what would you suggest for Friday? Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 0-8-0 Mother Hubbard Harold, You got me looking through my books! The only other "camel" locos that I can come up with were 0-8-0's built in 1953. They however were converted to 2-6-0's prior to the picture you have. This info comes from the book "Locomotives of the Pennsylvania Railroad 1834-1924" I have more books here to go through but I thought sure the info on your 0-8-0 would have been in this book. Do you have the ability to scan a pic of that and place it here so we can see it? I am pretty darn curious now! ......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Night PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 12:11:23 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/23/99 10:34 AM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: >Since work had me tied up druing the day on Firday, the aggenda actually >worked out for me; I won't be missing anything! I'll take care of setting >up a get together at Hoss's Friday Evening for dinner as I have done in the >past. For those who don't know, Hoss's is a family oriented restaurent (no >alcohol and now smoke free) that has GREAT food cheap. Their Pleasant >Valley location in Altoona has a railroad motif and I think the nicest >waitresses. On Fridays and Saturdays they do not take reservations but in >the past they have gone out of their way to accomodate the PRR-Talk group >get togethers. Do to how busy they get on Friday evenings, I would like to >suggest either a late afternoon dinner say right at 5 or early evening say >around 7:30 ish. The just before 5 would be my suggestion. Anyhow, let's >discuss this. Drew: I -- and a few others -- are working on a possible "alternative track" that will add some more events to the agenda. The dinner at Hoss's was part of those plans. Let's go a head and say "be there at 5 p.m.". That also helps out those of us who are vendors, as the Lewistown trip doesn't return until at least 6 and the vendor/model rooms are open until 10. Can folks e-mail you direct with their head counts? If so, count me for one. Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Agenda Update Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 13:02:02 -0400 From: Jerry I am developing an "unofficial" PRRT&HS web site through which I will disperse information that the Internet-unfriendly management of the society would not otherwise disperse! The site will respond tomorrow at http://prrths.pennsyrr.com For now, please see http://199.224.69.130/SITES/PRRTHS/ The first item posted is the Schedule for the 1999 Convention in a useful (I hope) table format. You'll note the addition of a "PRR-Talk" track in addition to the society's single track (plus vendor room and model room). The "PRR-Talk" dinner at Hoss's is listed. There will soon be (hopefully) a few more events for Friday and perhaps something after the banquet on Saturday night. Whenever possible, we will invite non-"PRR-Talk" folks to join us, to foster relationships between the "society at large" and the "cult" that we seem to sometimes be treated as. However, there are a few events in the pipeline that will be "capacity-challenged" and "PRR-Talk" subscribers will have first dibs on space. More as it unfolds...but watch this new web site! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Night PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 12:48:31 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/23/99 11:28 AM, jbreon (jbreon@email.msn.com) wrote: >Perhaps that would leave time to visit the model railroad club in town >(if it is open) afterwards. Since you live in the area, what would you >suggest for Friday? Jerry, etal, several of us are working to develop a sort of "PRR-Talk" track for Friday (and perhaps Saturday night after the banquet). About the model railroad club, does anyone have a contact with this group? It would be desirable for them to have an Open House one of these nights. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Agenda Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 11:39:15 -0400 From: Jerry Anyone have my e-mail of the convention schedule handy? Please e-mail me a copy. It's not in the mailing list archive yet (which has 1-2 day delay) and I am working on some "alternative" sessions to try to make this a "more complete" convention! Please mail direct, rather than repeat to the list. Thank. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 13:43:42 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] J-1 (2-10-4) MORE! Dear J-1 gang: I looked at my photo album during lunch and have a photo of J-1 #6451 with exposed sand pipes, angled coal board, no trainphones, with oval shaped class lights. I hope that this helps! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] J-1 (2-10-4) MORE! Author: ELM2@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/23/99 12:58 AM Friends, Now let's discuss J-1s with exposed/covered sand lines and more.Those of you still coveting those AHM machines should have an interest in this one. Somebody want to keep notes? List the locomotive number, type of sand lines (exposed/covered), train phone (yes/no), throw in the coal board style (angled/straight) if you know what it is. Come on guys dig deep! Give us your source so others may share. How about this: #6412 covered, angled, no. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg. 91 #6482 covered, angled, yes. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg.91 #6488 covered, angled, yes. RAILROADS AN AMERICAN JOURNEY/Don Ball,Jr. pg.92 Ed Martin "a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:14:02 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Repowering Bowser G5s To Jerry and the List, Does anyone have experience repowering the Bowser G5s? I have a model I painted and detailed to represent #5741, and I'd like it to run as smoothly as my Alco Products-repowered K4s. I think the E6s repower kit will work in the G5s, but I'm not sure. My other (less desirable) option would be to add a NWSL gearbox, along with a can motor and flywheel. I did this on my kitbashed MDC/Bowser E6s (because I didn't think the Alco repower kit for the E6s would fit the smaller MDC boiler); it runs well, but the Alco Products kits are pretty simple and foolproof. Thanks in advance! Doug 1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:42:55 -0400 From: 442 Subject: [PRR] To all, I sent the following to Ben Russell, can anyone out there answer the question? > Hi Ben, > > I have riden the NEC south of 30th st. many xs. On one of my trips I > noticed a MONUMENT of some sorts located on the WEST(RR > directions) side of > the ROW and NORTH(RR directions) of an overhead bridge > somewhere between > Greys Ferry ohb and 58th st ohb. Do you have any idea what > this may be? > It is a large monument the base is about 8 feet square and it > is about 6-8 > feet high. It has some white stone (unk. stone) that makes > up most of it. > > If you are going to go and look at it and then get back to > me let me know > so I can be on the lookout for your answer. > > I most recently saw it when I was in phila. for a convention the first > weekend of June. I stayed at the Airport Marriott and took > Septas train > from the airport to center city. > > Thankx > 442 > Sorry mystery person (442?), I cannot answer that. I've been wondering what that monument was since I saw it about two years ago. It appears to be heavily worn marble. If the neighborhood wasn't so bad and the NEC wasn't so inaccessible, I might have gone to look at it. I used to pass it every day when I worked in Center City (downtown Philly). I've been looking for someone to answer that question for me for awhile now. Since you reminded me of it, I'll post another request for an answer on a couple mailing lists. Ben R. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:00:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] B&O, Pennsy in Zanesville and Cambridge Folks, I received so much helpful advise on newark, Ohio that I thought I might ask another question. First, anyone familar with the track layout in Zanesville? I have a general idea of the B&O layout from watching a tape, where it appears there was a yard to the west of the Muskingum River, with the depot to it's east, but it's only a thumbnail glimpse. How much of a yard was it? (I can check my B&O engine assignment sheets from the 1950's to see what lived there as far as assigned power). How much track was adjacent to the depot, and where did the gas electric get serviced? What kind of industries were there? And the Pennsy had a secondary line running off the Panhandle main at Trinway, heading toward Cinncy that cut through town. Anyone know about the pennsy trackage, operations and interchanges? Seems the NYC and NKP went through town as well. And to round it out, the 1954 Official Guide shows TWO B&O stations, located adjacent. Cambridge, OH also had a PRR-B&O diamond, with a neat little depot quite close to the B&O station, where the Pennsy Marietta Branch headed south. Any data to be had? The object of my queries is the possibilty of modeling the 50 mile stretch of B&O's Newark Division from Cambridge to Newark circa 1953-56. Perhaps this is too much and I'll trim back to Newark-Zanesville, about 25 miles, but I'd still like to try some doodlings on the track plans first. Thanks folks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:22:59 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] 3-man doghouse Howdy all, When was the 3-man doghouse introduced on PRR tenders? Seems like a 50's thing to me... Also, how about round vs. square windows on these doghouses? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:45:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Wye vs Runaround I am planning on modeling a PRR branch line of the early 50s. I plan to have a wye at the end of the line to turn the steamers around. There will also be a runaround track just before the wye. My question is would the diesels use the wye to turn around or just run backwards? I believe the Pennsy practice was to run the diesels long hood first, correct? Thus, would this alone cause them to use the wye? Now, another question along that same line, what if there was an interchange track 15 to 20 miles from the end of the line, would steamers and the diesels still travel to the end of the line to turnaround on the wye? Thanks for the input. Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Agenda Update Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 22:24:54 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/23/99 1:02 PM, Jerry (jerry@dsop.com) wrote: >I am developing an "unofficial" PRRT&HS web site through which I will >disperse information that the Internet-unfriendly management of the >society would not otherwise disperse! > >The site will respond tomorrow at http://prrths.pennsyrr.com Now online, but I decided on http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] 3-man doghouse Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:31:53 -0500 Bruce--I am not sure about the first tender with a 3-man doghouse, however,the tenders built with the J1's in the early 40's had them. Interesting article in The Keystone of March 1982 in view of other recent J1 discussions. According to the author, Roger Keyser, he had idetified at least 10 J1 tenders modified with the straight vertical sides. He also stated that seldom would a tender remain with the J it had started out with. In the June 1983 Keystone article about I1's, a sketchy rundown on tenders is given, stating that the welded tenders began in service before June 1942. Off the top of my head, which is a very dangerous thing to say on this List, I can't recall seeing a photo of a welded tender with eight wheel trucks without a three man doghouse. I didn't say never! I just don't recall. My assumption is that while they were building J1 tenders, they built some for other classes, too. Or maybe they built a few, liked them and that is why they put them on the J's. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Repowering Bowser G5s Date: Wed, 23 Jun 99 22:28:43 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/23/99 9:14 PM, doug.kisala (doug.kisala@mciworld.com) wrote: >Does anyone have experience repowering the Bowser G5s? I have a model I >painted and detailed to represent #5741, and I'd like it to run as >smoothly as my Alco Products-repowered K4s. I think the E6s repower kit >will work in the G5s, but I'm not sure. My other (less desirable) >option would be to add a NWSL gearbox, along with a can motor and >flywheel. I did this on my kitbashed MDC/Bowser E6s (because I didn't >think the Alco repower kit for the E6s would fit the smaller MDC >boiler); it runs well, but the Alco Products kits are pretty simple and >foolproof. Thanks in advance! I just checked the current Alco price list and the Bowser quick-kit section does not list the G5s. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:02:05 -0400 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda > >IMHO, it is a very weak convention... I also have to agree with you about the agenda. I have been attending these conventions fairly regularly since about 1979 and this agenda has the fewest sessions of any I can remember. I had planned on going out on Friday and would be interested in using Friday as a chance to get together with other PRR-Talkers. Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR J1's List, I have just finished talking with a self proclaimed PRR J1 guru. I am starting to think he is myself because he has been at this for years. We all now know the J1's had so many variations among the group of 125. For now we are going to concentrate on the J1's with OUTSIDE SAND LINES. This is an easy spotting feature. Just look at a photo of a J1. You will see the huge sand dome mounted on the boiler top. IF you can see sand lines running from the dome to the walkway areas and beyond, these are the OUTSIDE SAND LINES. If you see short pipes that dissappear into the boiler sheet metal then these are internal sand lines. Most J1's had this short pipe line feature. The following is a list of known (photo proof) J class locos with the Outside Sand Pipes that he has come up with. They are 6450, 6451, 6453, 6455, 6456, 6457, 6461, 6462, 6465, 6473 and 6475. Possibly 6472 but can't confirm. He has also come to the assumption that the J's that fall between 6450 thru 6470 had the Outside Sand Lines. But we still need photo proof of the missing loco numbers to confirm this. He also wanted me to state that most, if not all the locos listed above, had their outside sand lines removed and placed inside the boiler jacket in later years. He has photo proof of both before and after to confirm this. So here is a nice start to a list of these J's that had the outside pipes at onetime. Does anyone else have photo proof of this feature. We would like to complete this list as best we can..Thanks.......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] 3-man doghouse Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:02:01 -0400 Bruce Smith asked: >When was the 3-man doghouse introduced on PRR tenders? Seems like a 50's >thing to me... Bruce, I don't have any facts or dates to post right now, but I was browsing through Pennsy Steam Years Vol. 2 last night (still out on the coffee table from looking up straight side J1 tender photos) and there is a photo of a three-man doghouse with a caption that indicates they were introduced in response to an Ohio law forbidding occupancy of a cabin car being operated in front of pusher locomotives. Again, no dates listed, but that law may be a place to start looking. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] FW: PRR Norristown & Perkiomen jct... Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:36:02 -0400 Hi all, I got this on my web site.. can anyone help Eric out? Thanks, Rob (please reply to Eric!) -----Original Message----- From: LEECUSHING@aol.com [mailto:LEECUSHING@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 10:45 PM To: robs@actel.com Subject: PRR Importance: High Hi again, what year did Conrail tear up the tracks between Norristown and Perkiomen junction? They are on the Norristown side of the river. thanks Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SugarJ69@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:08:27 EDT Subject: [PRR] Looking for photos I am modeling a gp7 without dynamic brakes and an sd7 with the brakes and have been trying unsuccessfully to locate some photos of these engines in the Pennsy scheme. If anyone could supply these or point me in the correct direction I would be much appreciative. Thanks. Regards, SugarJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda Date: Thu, 24 Jun 99 09:38:44 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/24/99 7:52 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: >I've been following this thread and have a few comments. First I have never >been priveledged to attend a convention. Due to the death of Jim Lynch my >subscription renewal didn't get entered and I had to have a phone >conversation with his replacement who used to edit the High Line for the >Philadelphia chapter. There is a dearth of information and articles at this >time. Most issues of the Keystone are what they are from a lack of member >input or articles. Apparently almost anything submitted will be published. >There is no backlog of information waiting to be published. If the editors >got more information they would increase the magazine size. Also, I think >it is important to remember one of Pogo's famous lines when we refer to >they, >" we are they" and need to participate if we want the society to continue at >its high level of previous years. There can't be many former employees left >at this point. NOW is the time to get their stories and experiences. I agree with many of your sentiments. However, the info on The Keystone is not all accurate. There IS some backlog of articles. It took a few issues until they ran lister Hank Mummert's article on the Baltimore towers. I am waiting on some photos for another project that is already in the queue for a Keystone article that has been pending for a while. There may not be a large backlog, but there is one. As for making The Keystone larger....it'll never happen. This is a fine magazine and it costs a lot to print. The number of members is undoubtedly dropping, through deaths of many former PRR employees who undoubtedly make up a large portion of the membership. Over the next 20 years, the society will be challenged to keep membership at a point that will even support the magazine at its current size. I feel confident in making these comments as I work in the publishing industry. Depending on the printer that prints the magazine, additional pages are added in lots of 4, 8, 16, or 32 pages. I'd be willing to bet that The Keystone uses 16 page forms. Thats a LOT of extra material to come up with for each issue...not to mention the added postage to mail it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:52:39 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Agenda I've been following this thread and have a few comments. First I have never been priveledged to attend a convention. Due to the death of Jim Lynch my subscription renewal didn't get entered and I had to have a phone conversation with his replacement who used to edit the High Line for the Philadelphia chapter. There is a dearth of information and articles at this time. Most issues of the Keystone are what they are from a lack of member input or articles. Apparently almost anything submitted will be published. There is no backlog of information waiting to be published. If the editors got more information they would increase the magazine size. Also, I think it is important to remember one of Pogo's famous lines when we refer to they, " we are they" and need to participate if we want the society to continue at its high level of previous years. There can't be many former employees left at this point. NOW is the time to get their stories and experiences. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:16:19 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Since Jerry brought up the Keystone... Jerry et. al., Steve said: >Interesting article in The Keystone of March 1982 in view of other recent J1 >discussions. >In the June 1983 Keystone article about I1's, a sketchy rundown on tenders >is given, stating that the welded tenders began in service before June 1942. Of course, neither of these are available as back issues :^( Now (the annual PRRT&HS meeting) would be an excellent time to revisit the issue of a CD of the Keystone back issues!!!!! I would personally pay up to around $100 to get the the complete collection up through say 1994 or 1995 (the last "gap" in the available issues is Summer '94). I think Jerry brought it up last year without success, but we need to keep pushing if we want it to happen!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Altoona Convention - Major Announcement Coming! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 99 12:06:03 -0400 From: Jerry For those that weren't sure about attending the convention, or aren't sure about spending Friday in Altoona...hold the train! There WILL be a "PRR-Talk" Track of additional sessions. By the end of the convention, non-onliners will know who we are! We've got a couple of things working, some with confirmations and some pending. Stay tuned! http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:47:34 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] CD of the Keystone Back Issues Greetings to Bruce and the group, I too would be willing to purchase back Keystone issues on a CD. Have the National Geographic CDs now which only cost around $150 for ALL issues up to the last couple of years. A CD (should fit on one) of all Keystones should not cost anywhere near that much even with a good profit included in the cost. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 11:16 AM 6/24/99 -0500, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >Now (the annual PRRT&HS meeting) would be an excellent time to revisit the >issue of a CD of the Keystone back issues!!!!! I would personally pay up >to around $100 to get the the complete collection up through say 1994 or >1995 (the last "gap" in the available issues is Summer '94). I think Jerry >brought it up last year without success, but we need to keep pushing if we >want it to happen!!! > >Happy Rails >Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:30:04 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] PRR GP7s and SD7s, pictures and numbers Jerry and the List, This post is in reference to the query about photos of PRR GP7s (nondynamic) and SD7s. While most of my reference books are in storage, I found some information in Pennsy Diesel Years Volume I. PRR's two SD7s were 8588 and 8589, built in 1953 with dynamics and ballasted for service on the steep Madison Hill, Indiana grade. On page 138 of Volume I is a picture of SD7 8589 from 1964 (the trainphone antenna is gone). There's an SD9 picture on page 39 as well. While this book is out of print, you can do as I did and borrow it through Interlibrary Loan; it takes a couple of weeks, but it's worth it. The just-released (and very nice) PRR-Standard Railroad of the World, Volume I, also from Morning Sun, has an SD9 picture on page 40. As far as nondynamic GP7s, the two books I've got don't have any pictures, but I can at least give roster information; I know they show up in other PRR Diesel Years volumes. GP7s 8797-8806 (1951) and 8545-8550 (1953) had no dynamics, while GP7s 8551-8553 (1953) and 8583-8587 also lacked dynamics while having steam generators for passenger service. Photos of the similar GP9s are legion. Good luck with your models! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:48:26 -0400 I second that motion. I would love to see tha back issues on CD. Sam Vastano -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:48 PM Subject: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) >Since Jerry brought up the Keystone... > >Jerry et. al., > >Steve said: >>Interesting article in The Keystone of March 1982 in view of other recent J1 >>discussions. >>In the June 1983 Keystone article about I1's, a sketchy rundown on tenders >>is given, stating that the welded tenders began in service before June 1942. > >Of course, neither of these are available as back issues :^( > >Now (the annual PRRT&HS meeting) would be an excellent time to revisit the >issue of a CD of the Keystone back issues!!!!! I would personally pay up >to around $100 to get the the complete collection up through say 1994 or >1995 (the last "gap" in the available issues is Summer '94). I think Jerry >brought it up last year without success, but we need to keep pushing if we >want it to happen!!! > >Happy Rails >Bruce > >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. >Scott-Ritchey Research Center >334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) >http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > >There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > >PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) > Now (the annual PRRT&HS meeting) would be an excellent time to revisit the > issue of a CD of the Keystone back issues!!!!! So when are back issues of High Line coming out on cdrom? Any Philly Chapter members know? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for photos SugarJ, There are plenty of books out there that show the Penny Locos that you have a question about. Pennsy Power 1 is a good one among many others. Although not a GP7 as in your request I am adding a photograph of a GP9 in HO scale at the bottom of my message. These are PRR GP9' brass imports by Overland Imports. The basic color and lettering applies to your GP7. I also included a GP9 "B" unit also. Hope this helps in a pinch. .....Gary http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/overlandgp9.jpg http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/overlandgp9b.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for photos Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:42:20 -0400 You need to get Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 6 by Morning Sun Books. Page 9, 25, 36, and 121 have photos of GP-7s w/o dynamic brake. There are photos of the SD-7s in other volumes. If you can't find a copy, I can sell you one for $40.00 plus postage. Bill Volkmer ---------- > From: SugarJ69@aol.com > To: prr-talk@dsop.com; nscaleproto@onelist.com; n_scale@onelist.com > Subject: [PRR] Looking for photos > Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 10:08 AM > > I am modeling a gp7 without dynamic brakes and an sd7 with the brakes and > have been trying unsuccessfully to locate some photos of these engines in the > Pennsy scheme. If anyone could supply these or point me in the correct > direction I would be much appreciative. Thanks. > Regards, > SugarJ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for photos Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:03:46 -0400 There are photos in Pennsy Diesel Years Vol 6 by Morning sun Books on pages 9, 25, 29, 36, and 121. If you can't get a copy, I can sell you one for $40 plus postage. Bill Volkmer ---------- > From: doloris mittner > To: SugarJ69@aol.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for photos > Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 2:45 PM > > SugarJ, > > There are plenty of books out there that show the Penny Locos that > you have a question about. Pennsy Power 1 is a good one among many > others. Although not a GP7 as in your request I am adding a photograph > of a GP9 in HO scale at the bottom of my message. These are PRR GP9' > brass imports by Overland Imports. The basic color and lettering applies > to your GP7. I also included a GP9 "B" unit also. Hope this helps in a > pinch. .....Gary > > http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/overlandgp9.jpg > http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/boutique/5089/overlandgp9b.jpg > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:19:41 -0400 George wrote: >Hi Guys, > >Is anyone familiar with the model of the LS-25 by Custom Brass? I have one of these models in my collection and it was a real "coffee grinder". I ended up replacing the motor, installing universals and rebuilding the truck gearboxes with NWSL parts. The truck sideframes are lacking detail which I have yet to add, but the rest of the model is quite nicely done. BTW, Railworks has announced that they will be offering five versions of the Baldwin RT-624 (PRR class BS-24 & BS-24m) in the (near) future. They are offered with and without trainphone antennae and either Baldwin type cast or Tri-mount style trucks. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Membership Query Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:39:49 -0400 Mick Molloy wrote: Greetings to the list. I am hoping someone can sort out this apparent discrepancy I had decided to look at the costs and benefits of joining the PRRT&HS. I went to their Web site and saw that it was in two sections.( National Division and Philly Division) Mick, As was stated by someone else, the National PRRT&HS is what I would call the main organization which published The Keystone magazine and holds the annual conventions. There are many local chapters of this organization, but the Philadelphia chapter is by far the largest with over 1,000 members. The local chapters generally hold meetings and events throughout the year in their individual locations. The national organization generally just has the annual convention. If you can only join one, I would recommend the national PRRT&HS, but there's more interactive activities in the local chapters and I don't think they all charge dues. The Philly chapter publishes the High Line magazine and about six newsletters a year which affects the amount they charge for dues. Now, someone else can jump in here and add to this. I have been a National member for twenty some years and joined the Philly chapter just last year after meeting several members at the Lancaster convention. I had done this to participate in the local activities and, wouldn't you know it, have not yet been to one because of my job schedule. I'll get there sooner or later. Jerry (listmaster), do you want to jump in and outline the Cyber Chapter? Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:50:54 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Um Jerry? >I learned from Chuck Blardone about a year ago that The Keystone is not >electronically paginated (PageMaker, QuarkXPress, etc.). The text is >keyed in and then the text and photos are manually "stripped" into place. >In order to post-produce The Keystone to CD-ROM, either electronic >pre-press files would beed to be supplied or the entire issue would have >to be computer re-paginated just to produce the CD. That's too much >effort for too little return. How is that National Geographic, from before the computer was invented, was put on CD? What I think is needed are high quality scans of each page, and then perhaps some indexing? I'd even be willing to bet that there is an overall index of ALL Keystones out there somewhere (of course, it ain't on the PRRT&HS pages, but what do you expect ) Happy Rails Bruce P.S. Did I miss something or did the last Keystone get switched at the printer for the LIRRT&HS magazine? I mean, I know "we" owned "them" but... Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Convention Update - 6/25/99 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 08:55:07 -0400 From: Jerry The "PRR-Talk" Track for the convention is really shaping up. We've got one event confirmed, with its time up in the air pending confirmation of a second event (whose time is certain). The event page has been updated, and a bug was fixed yesterday that had prevented Netscape users from properly viewing the schedule. (Thanks to Mark Bej for pointing out the problem.) http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com Thanks for all the input we have received! Do we want to visit The Curve Sunday morning, after checkout, since there are no planned events? Or another location, perhaps? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Altoona Convention Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:04:48 -0400 Greetings to the group, I plan on going to this convention and I know that I'll have a great time! With so much to see and do in this area how could it not be a good time? Everyone there shares some sort of affection for the PRR regardless of whether it is history, modeling or whatever. Rick Tipton is right when he says throw two SPF's in a room and you have a convention (and probably an argument). As for the "old guard" let's proceed cautiously. I remember sitting in the business meeting last year in Lancaster when several members started discussing the internet, cyber chapter and such and I was thinking to myself "who are these computer geeks, anyway?"(Jerry, was it you?) Now I "are" one too and am glad for it. I think the best approach is to educate rather than bulldoze. It will happen. Jerry Breon counting the minutes 'till the convention ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Membership Query Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 09:51:20 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/25/99 8:39 AM, jbreon (jbreon@email.msn.com) wrote: > Jerry (listmaster), do you want to jump in and outline the Cyber >Chapter? The Cyber Chapter chapter IS NOT an entity of the PRRT&HS at this time. Over the past few years, we have often discussed forming ourselves as a chapter...so as to have a voice in the policies and future of the PRRT&HS. The web site I created (http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com) states this. I have just requested a written copy of the by-laws of the PRRT&HS for two reasons: 1. To find out what needs to be done to form a chapter and to see if there is anything prohibiting a non-geographic chapter from forming; 2. To find out the process of running for a seat on the board of directors -- requirements, etc. For the former, "PRR-Talk" subscribers would not be required to be members. For the latter, there are six board members serving offset three-year terms. I would like to see a cyber member (perhaps myself) run next year, and another in each of the following two years. Last year there were about 300 votes required to place someone on the board. We have over 350 here online...we just need to get everyone to join national so they have a vote! My intent for getting someone on the board should not be conveyed as the beginnings of a "corporate takeover". There are some things that need changed, but I feel a "gentle" approach would be better. The Keystone is a fine publication and I wouldn't touch it. My initial thought is that just having someone on the board that is also active online would improve communication by leaps and bounds. Then we can start to improve things -- most notably, access to the archives! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] UN Tower "Re-Birth" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:07:44 -0400 News from The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP... UN Tower, which formerly guarded the east end of the CSX yard at New Castle, PA, will begin its "re-birth" on Saturday morning in Mahoningtown, PA, a New Castle suburb. The Beaver Valley Junction Chapter of the National Railway Historical Society, which "saved" UN Tower (see Trains, Railpace, and possibly other coverage of UN's "move" on a railroad flat car), has poured a concrete foundation and will lift the lower floor of UN onto that concrete pad. The upper floor will be added at a later date. The "move" is to take place on the morning of Saturday, June 26, 1999, at the westernmost Cherry Street crossing of the ISSR in Mahoningtown, PA. Cherry Street can be accessed from PA Rt. 168, just south of the Rt. 422 overpass. It is a "T" intersection: turn onto Cherry Street, cross over the first ISSR track, then continue over a second grade crossing (stored historical rolling stock on the left), and at the third crossing, you will reach UN's new location. You are probably about "on target" by reaching the site sometime after 9:AM, although there promises to be activity there all morning, and most likely all day. Specific information can be obtained from the BVJC's New Castle Contact Person, John Fishovitz, at (724) 654-7904. John can also be reached during business hours at J.F. Mill: (724) 654-9542. The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP is a railfan B&B, similar to The Station Inn/Cresson, PA, located 15 minutes west of Conway Yard in Fallston, PA. Please e-mail me off-list for printed materials and information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:31:48 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Headlights on Electrics Bill Volkmer, and y'all, I had a quick question about headlight operation, particularly on the B-1 rat. When in operation as a switcher (Harrisburg, Philly, Sunnyside etc.) how were the headlights operated - both on always? or always in the direction of travel? or one on, one off, and just left that way? TIA Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 09:48:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ George: I purchased one about 7 years old. I believe that one 200 were built for Custom Brass and I think it was an early import from Korea. They came out in 1972 and only 200 were made. I think that none were factory painted. Given it is and early 70's brass unit, the details such as the panel lines, louvers, and grills are a little crude. Overall, the model closely follows the PRR prototype although it did not come with trainphones. I believe not all of the PRR LS-25's had trainphones. The unit runs but as Bob Zoeller wrote, with very LOUD grinding sounds. Under the body there is a large open frame motor with no flywheels and very primitive universal joints leading to the power trucks. It would be easy to replace the motor and universal joints and shafts with Athearn parts (that would be a huge improvement!). I will have to look to confirm but I think that the power trucks have all brass gears and at least 2 of the 3 axles are powered per truck. There is one external blunder that really stands out with me. The brake hoses were stamped in the pilot surfaces and are not separate (OUCH!!!). I think that they can be painted and with some weathering, be made to look presentable. Overall, I think that the Custom Brass unit captures the essence of the LS-25 and would be great running engine if the motor and basic drive train is replaced. I believe that Rail Classics or someone else has announced plans on producing another run of these transfer units. They ought to come with different versions such as with and without trainphone antennae and factory painted. They will probably run about $600 - $700 (I am guessing). They might be worth the wait. Only 200 of the Custom Brass were made and they are rare to find in hobby shops (I had to look for this one for a long time). Because of their scarcity, they will probably go for $400-$500 so the new brass run might be worth the extra cost. I will look at my model at lunchtime and post anything the I may have forgotten. Ted Andrews P.S. This has been my first product review ;) ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ Author: Eichhorn@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/24/99 10:05 PM Hi Guys, Is anyone familiar with the model of the LS-25 by Custom Brass? I can't find any reference to it in John Glaab's "Brown Book", or anywhere else. If anyone has such an animal, or has seen one, I'd be most appreciative of any and all comments they have to offer. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 11:03:03 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/25/99 8:50 AM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >>I learned from Chuck Blardone about a year ago that The Keystone is not >>electronically paginated (PageMaker, QuarkXPress, etc.). The text is >>keyed in and then the text and photos are manually "stripped" into place. >>In order to post-produce The Keystone to CD-ROM, either electronic >>pre-press files would beed to be supplied or the entire issue would have >>to be computer re-paginated just to produce the CD. That's too much >>effort for too little return. > >How is that National Geographic, from before the computer was invented, was >put on CD? What I think is needed are high quality scans of each page, and >then perhaps some indexing? I'd even be willing to bet that there is an >overall index of ALL Keystones out there somewhere (of course, it ain't on >the PRRT&HS pages, but what do you expect ) > Okay, you can do it...as full page hi-res scans. Guess I was thinking too much "inside the box" with features like full-text search, etc. > >P.S. Did I miss something or did the last Keystone get switched at the >printer for the LIRRT&HS magazine? I mean, I know "we" owned "them" but... It's a fine magazine, but I do hate when they devote an entire issue to one subject (unless it's one I like!). I found this one to be a disappointment. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:03:51 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) I have done an index using Lotus. I have been a member since the mid 70's and may have done some earlier issues. John Ryan "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > Um Jerry? Snip and > then perhaps some indexing? I'd even be willing to bet that there is an > overall index of ALL Keystones out there somewhere (of course, it ain't on > the PRRT&HS pages, but what do you expect ) > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > P.S. Did I miss something or did the last Keystone get switched at the > printer for the LIRRT&HS magazine? I mean, I know "we" owned "them" but... > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 12:39:39 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/25/99 10:48 AM, ted.andrews@woolpert.com (ted.andrews@woolpert.com) wrote: > I believe that Rail Classics or someone else has announced plans on > producing another run of these transfer units. They ought to come with > different versions such as with and without trainphone antennae and > factory painted. They will probably run about $600 - $700 (I am guessing). > They might be worth the wait. It is RailWorks that is bringing it out...in five different versions. Place an advance reservation with your favorite dealer. ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 99 13:56:43 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/25/99 12:03 PM, John F. Ryan, Jr. (RamblingReck@worldnet.att.net) wrote: >I have done an index using Lotus. I have been a member since the mid >70's and may have done some earlier issues. There is an index on my site, "Keystone Crossings": http://kc.pennsyrr.com/library/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:12:29 -0400 From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: [PRR] Re: [n_scale] Looking for photos According to Pennsy Power II the numbers for these units are; 8502-8512, 8545-8550, 8554-8582, 8797-8806 Pennsy class ES15m 8500-8502, 8551-8553, 8583-8587 Pennsy class ES15ms Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 1 Page 149 (bottom) #8553 non dynamic torpedo version Page 153 (top) #8554 Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 4 Page 30 (bottom) #8553 non dynamic torpedo version Pennsy Diesel Years Volume #6 Page 23 (top) #8563 Page 29 (top) #8586 Page 121 (top) cannot see numbers Pennsy Power II Page 219 center GM Photo new unit in same class #8797 Page 312 #8797 Page 316 (top) helper on Horseshoe in front of K4 Pennsy Power III Page 340 (top) #8547 Page 341 (bottom) #8553 torpedo SD7 Pennsy Power II Numbers 8588 thru 8589 Page 219 Don Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s -1950s Page 175 That's about all I could find. Please let me know if this is what you were looking for. If I can be of further assistance please contact me anytime. David Campbell Norton, VA SugarJ69@aol.com wrote: > From: SugarJ69@aol.com > > I am modeling a gp7 without dynamic brakes and an sd7 with the brakes and > have been trying unsuccessfully to locate some photos of these engines in the > Pennsy scheme. If anyone could supply these or point me in the correct > direction I would be much appreciative. Thanks. > Regards, > SugarJ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Books, music, videos, gifts, e-cards, auctions-find them at AMAZON.COM. > Browse Earth's Biggest Selection! Enjoy everyday savings of up to 50%! > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WSpald3557@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:52:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Schwab's Private Car Does anyone know the status of Schwab's Car in the Railroader's Memorial Museum in Altoona? It was half finished and work was stopped. Was it tampered with and will they ever be able to open it up to the public again? Probably a matter of money. Willard Spalding ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charles E. Whary" Subject: [PRR] Switch Lantern Targets Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:35:16 -0400 People, I would like to ask the question as to the correct color targets that went with the red and green lenses on the switch lanterns used by the PRR.. I have seen two different variations; 1st ) red target - red lense, green target - green lense. 2nd ) yellow target -red lense, white target - green lense. Any help would be appreciated. Thanx. Charles E. Whary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: FW: [PRR] Switch Lantern Targets Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:07:05 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Charles E. Whary Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 11:35 AM To: 'PRR-Talk' Subject: [PRR] Switch Lantern Targets Charles and others: Question was asked, see answers below: I would like to ask the question as to the correct color targets that went with the red and green lenses on the switch lanterns used by the PRR.. I have seen two different variations; They were called switch lamps - not lanterns. 1st ) red target - red lens (reverse), green target - green lens (normal). Was used in main track - when change was made to banners - horizontal red w/ red reflector and diagonal white w/ green reflector 2nd ) yellow target -red (probably amber) lens (reverse), white target - green lens (normal). Was used in yards and lesser tracks. With banners - yellow horizontal w/ yellow reflector and diagonal white w/ green reflector. If my memory serves me correctly what you call targets on the switch lamps were actually called disks. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] Schwab's Private Car Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:05:16 -0400 Don't know if it's been finished....but it will never be open to the public again ( per the museum people) Viewing only from the walkway along the car.... Thanks, Bill (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. ---------- > From: WSpald3557@aol.com > To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Schwab's Private Car > Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 11:52 AM > > Does anyone know the status of Schwab's Car in the Railroader's Memorial > Museum in Altoona? It was half finished and work was stopped. Was it tampered > with and will they ever be able to open it up to the public again? Probably a > matter of money. > > > > Willard Spalding > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Schwab's Private Car Date: Sat, 26 Jun 99 21:57:24 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/26/99 11:52 AM, WSpald3557@aol.com (WSpald3557@aol.com) wrote: >Does anyone know the status of Schwab's Car in the Railroader's Memorial >Museum in Altoona? It was half finished and work was stopped. Was it >tampered >with and will they ever be able to open it up to the public again? >Probably a >matter of money. If I had to guess, I'd say it was sidelined while they restored the Master Mechanics Building as the new museum. Now that it's done, I suppose they are re-evaluating the order in which everything else is restored. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:53:00 -0400 From: David ott Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Jerry, You have my vote if you decide to run for a BOD postion. What is the old saying, "Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it". I think the PRR might have been slow to embrace change, and we all know what the result of that was. A little progressive thinking, maybe is what the PRRT&HS needs. I'd hate to see it go the same way as the prototype. Dave Ott , PRRT&HS #2122 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jcfmmf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:58:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Switch Lamp Targets My memory disagrees with the recent posting. On Lines West the lamps for mainline switches had white targets with green lenses when set for the main and red targets and red lenses when set for the diverging route. Yard lamps were white/green & yellow/amber. This may have been a Lines East--Lines West issue or another example of never say never on the PRR. I think the mainline green/green & red/red were used on the Reading. Jerry Finefrock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:43:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR TALK Is there something wrong with the server? Only 2 messages this weekend. Harold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR TALK Date: Sun, 27 Jun 99 22:01:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/27/99 3:43 PM, Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963@aol.com) wrote: >Is there something wrong with the server? Only 2 messages this weekend. Nothing wrong...it's summer! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Switch Lamp Targets Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 19:49:30 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jcfmmf@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 2:59 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Switch Lamp Targets Jerry and list, Your memory is serving you fine Jerry, its my eyesight that is failing me. Thanx for calling this to my and the list's attention. Just to restate it so everyone gets it correct: From section 1205 of CE 78(J) "The PRR - Specifications For Construction and Maintenance of Track": Switch lamps and targets [banners] are known as Position Indicators for Switch Points. Applies only to non-interlocked switches, [i.e., hand operated switches]. Disc and target is the day signal, lens and reflector is the night signal. 1. In main track and secondary track and 2. At ends of two main tracks: Switch normal - w/lamps - white disc/green lens | w/banners white target/green reflector [diagonal].* Switch reverse - w/lamps - red disc/red lens | w/banners red target/red reflector [horizontal]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ 3. In all other tracks, including siding, switch or crossover: Switch normal - w/lamps - white disc/green lens | w/banners white target/green reflector [diagonal]. Switch reverse - w/lamps - yellow disc/yellow lens | w/banners yellow target/yellow reflector [horizontal]. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ 4. Siding switches at ends of middle sidings: Switches set to derail - w/lamps purple disc/purple lens | w/banners purple target/purple reflector. Switches set for movement w/the current of traffic - yellow disc/yellow lens | w/banners yellow disc/yellow reflector. Switches set for movement against the current of traffic - red disc/red lens ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ * upward point of inclined (diagonal) blade, where targets are used, shall be away from the track. [] lingo in brackets is mine, not from book. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ I have seen green discs in use on switch lamps and to be quite frank I have worked w/ so many railroads I just don't remember where they were, sometimes its hard to keep them all sorted out in my mind. I never really worked with the Reading as Jerry had suggested so I don't know about them. It seems to me I do remember seeing them on the PRR, although I sometimes think I am getting old and senile and remember seeing things that weren't there. Charles if you have a specific PRR location in mind w/green discs lets hear about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ Other comments: The word MAINLINE switches as used in Jerry's message is common but technically incorrect. The correct term is MAIN TRACK switches. A MAINLINE is one or more tracks between two points on a division designated as such in the timetable, all other lines in the division between two points being branches or secondary tracks, also designated in the timetable. Main track as defined in the PRR Book of Rules is - "A designated track upon which trains are operated by time-table, train order or both or the use of which is governed by block signals." Therefore, the mainline had main track and the branches had main track. Part of Rule 104 states"....Non-interlocked switches and derails connected to main or secondary track are in the normal position when lined for movement on the main or secondary track involved, unless otherwise specified in the timetable..." However, there are some rare places where the DIVERGING route is NORMAL and the STRAIGHT route is REVERSE. These locations would be specified in timetable special instructions 1104 A-1 "Normal Position of Switches and Crossovers at Specified Locations." Jerry also talks about Lines East and Lines West practices and I know a lot of people on the list make a big thing out of it. Although some practices and terms did die hard, some probably didn't die at all, after the dissolution of the Lines East/Lines West organization in 1920 for all intents and purposes the standards specified by the system office became the rule and the autonomy of Lines West ended. All standards were systemwide and all purchasing was systemwide. It took a while for some of the practices and standards to disappear but eventually most of them did. I worked both "Lines East" and "Lines West" territories in the 1960s and other than the old timers stories it was pretty much a standard railroad. Eventhough I occasionally refer to it as the Unstandard Standard Railroad of the World. - Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:06:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Membership Query The difference is you would be joining the Philadelphia Chapter for the dues sent to Wayne and the National Organization for the dues sent to Altoona. It is not necessary to belong to the National Organization to join a chapter nor are you required to join a chapter if you belong to the National organization. In addition to the Philadelphia Chapters, the are the Northern Central Chapter, Middle Division Chapter, Pittsburgh Chapter. I may have missed one or two. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: 25 Jun 99 13:22:22 EST Subject: Re[2]: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ George: This is a repost of my morning post. I had a chance in looking at my LS-25 at lunchtime and have the following corrections: 1. The Custom Brass NJI model was made in Japan, not Korea, by KMT. 2. The power trucks have plastic gears not brass. As Jerry Breon wrote in his post, Northwest Shortline re-gearing is necessary. Since the these power truck is made by KMT, I think that parts from NWSL should be available. 3. The brake hose is a separate part from the pilot. But it is the three MU hoses that are stamped on the side of the pilot (OUCH, OUCH, OUCH !!!). 4. The side frames are a little crude too. But I think that a good paint job with light weathering should do the trick. Perhaps sideframes from either Stewart or Precision Scale can be used in their place. Ted ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ Author: ted.andrews@woolpert.com at Internet Date: 6/25/99 9:48 AM George: I purchased one about 7 years old. I believe that one 200 were built for Custom Brass and I think it was an early import from Korea. They came out in 1972 and only 200 were made. I think that none were factory painted. Given it is and early 70's brass unit, the details such as the panel lines, louvers, and grills are a little crude. Overall, the model closely follows the PRR prototype although it did not come with trainphones. I believe not all of the PRR LS-25's had trainphones. The unit runs but as Bob Zoeller wrote, with very LOUD grinding sounds. Under the body there is a large open frame motor with no flywheels and very primitive universal joints leading to the power trucks. It would be easy to replace the motor and universal joints and shafts with Athearn parts (that would be a huge improvement!). I will have to look to confirm but I think that the power trucks have all brass gears and at least 2 of the 3 axles are powered per truck. There is one external blunder that really stands out with me. The brake hoses were stamped in the pilot surfaces and are not separate (OUCH!!!). I think that they can be painted and with some weathering, be made to look presentable. Overall, I think that the Custom Brass unit captures the essence of the LS-25 and would be great running engine if the motor and basic drive train is replaced. I believe that Rail Classics or someone else has announced plans on producing another run of these transfer units. They ought to come with different versions such as with and without trainphone antennae and factory painted. They will probably run about $600 - $700 (I am guessing). They might be worth the wait. Only 200 of the Custom Brass were made and they are rare to find in hobby shops (I had to look for this one for a long time). Because of their scarcity, they will probably go for $400-$500 so the new brass run might be worth the extra cost. I will look at my model at lunchtime and post anything the I may have forgotten. Ted Andrews P.S. This has been my first product review ;) ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] Lima-Hamilton LS-25 by Custom Brass of NJ Author: Eichhorn@aol.com at Internet Date: 6/24/99 10:05 PM Hi Guys, Is anyone familiar with the model of the LS-25 by Custom Brass? I can't find any reference to it in John Glaab's "Brown Book", or anywhere else. If anyone has such an animal, or has seen one, I'd be most appreciative of any and all comments they have to offer. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Deater" Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 at Steamtown Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:34:37 -0400 The K4 is still in pieces at Steamtown. It was neat to see the inside shell with the rivets and the driving wheels. I just there Saturday. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: alcoman Subject: [PRR] Question for the list Anyone have decent pictures of PRR F7's in an A-B-A lashup. My boss is modelling in N-Scale and is looking for some decent shots of F7's. He got some Kato F7's in ATSF paint and is stripping em down for the big repaint. But he still needs some decent pics of prototypes. He found a pic on Clint Chamberlin's www.northeast.railfan.net site and when he found another pic on a different site it was the EXACT same pic. Anyone have anything that may be used. Thanks is advance! W.J. Semanchuk-Enser Co-Network Admin - Technical Support alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System x2 & K56flex/V.90 Access www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo,NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: [PRR] K4 at Steamtown Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:55:43 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEC165.88277EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anybody know the status of the K4 at steamtown, I will be passing = through this week on business and wondered if was worth stopping by? Thank you Sam Vastano ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEC165.88277EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Anybody know the status of the K4 at = steamtown,=20 I will be passing through this week on business and wondered if was = worth=20 stopping by?
 
Thank you
 
Sam Vastano
 
------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEC165.88277EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] RailFest '99 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 99 14:22:30 -0400 From: Jerry RailFest '99 will be held on October 2-3 this year. New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! For more details, see the Timetable at "Keystone Crossings": http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:05:29 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Electric locos (sl. off topic) Okay Juice Jockeys, Here's a quiz to see how serious you really are...Can you identify* (manufacturer, class) the locomotives pictured at: http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer100.jpg http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer200.jpg Boy do they look a lot like a PRR loco!!!!! *the identity is on the home page for the "MER" http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/mer.html Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Convention Update Date: Mon, 28 Jun 99 13:41:22 -0400 From: Jerry Folks, a Friday seminar schedule sponsored by "PRR-Talk" and others "yet-to-be-announced" is really shaping up. For those of you considering not attending the convention, or not attending on Friday, we hope you'll change your mind. We hope to be able to release "specifics" in a few days, but we've got one seminar firmed up and another verbally firm but awaiting written confirmation. A third is waiting for acceptance. Top that off with dinner at Hoss's and we've got a pretty good thing going for Friday. We're not -- yet -- going to book anything for Friday or Saturday evenings, as the society itself may try to add something...even if just an open slide show. As we get closer, we'll see if something is still needed, and add it if so deemed. For up to the minute specifics, keep your eye on http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com/convention99.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:39:40 +0000 From: "Roger P. Hensley" Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN This was posted to another list that I belong to and I thought of this list immediately. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Bob Haserot [mailto:rhaserot@panix.com] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN I recently acquired some railroad slides from the 50's through the early 80's, and some have scanty identification at best. I'd really appreciate any help I could get with respect to two in particular. The first is labeled "No. Judson Ind." and has a processing date stamp of "JUL 63." It depicts a room with a bank of interlocking plant switch levers and a man sitting at a desk by some windows. If you look closely at the windows, there is a faint image of tracks, and they appear to be at least one storey down from the windows. All of this suggests to me that this is a picture of the interlocking plant on the second floor of a tower in North Judson, Indiana, in July of 1963. Looking at my railroad atlas for 1965, I see that the New York Central, C&O, EL and Pennsylvania converged on North Judson, so it makes sense that there would be a tower there. My questions are: Was there indeed a tower in North Judson, IN in 1963, and if so, what was its name and which railroad owned and operated it? Also, is it still in existence? The second presents more of a challenge. It depicts a black box that I would judge is about 1 ½ ft. high, 2 ft. wide and 2 in. deep. On the front of the box is a diagram like a CTC track diagram depicting a north-south line in green and an east-west line in yellow on the west side of the green line and red on the east side of the green line. Stuck to the upper left hand corner of the box is a calender with the name "Kentland Bank" on the top and a July, 1981, calender page under it. I looked up Kentland in Street Atlas USA and found that there is indeed a Kentland, Indiana; furthermore, my 1978 rail atlas indicates that Kentland was the junction of a north-south Conrail line and and east-west TP&W line. My questions on this one are: What is the black box with the rail diagram on it, what facility (tower, dispatcher's office, etc.) would it have be housed in, and what railroad would have been the most likely owner? Again, thanks so much in advance for any information anyone can provide me. Bob Haserot rhaserot@panix.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Electric locos (sl. off topic) Bruce, Me not being a big "Juice" fan my guess is E-33's...Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Update Date: Mon, 28 Jun 99 15:16:20 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/28/99 3:03 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >Is this program in lieu of the trip to Lewistown or will it be scheduled >around the trip? We are planning a series of events that will be concurrent to the Lewistown trip. To date, nobody I have spoken to or e-mailed with has expressed any interest in the Lewistown trip. If it had been a train trip, perhaps, but it's a bus trip! The general consensus is "Why drive to Altoona for a convention then go 4 hours round trip to Lewistown to see a station that will always be there, and to see a new library that only six people (the directors) have access to?" Well put! We are going to provide a series of events concurrent with the Lewistown trip -- which runs 7:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. -- so those who stay in Altoona will have something to do that is "organized". Our current agenda starts at Noon and runs through 6:30 p.m. (includes dinner). If you aren't interested in the Lewistown trip, I think this seminar track will be of great interest to you! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:03:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Update Jerry: Is this program in lieu of the trip to Lewistown or will it be scheduled around the trip? Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Convention Announcement - Part I Date: Mon, 28 Jun 99 17:16:09 -0400 From: Jerry Okay folks, enough confirmation has come in to reveal some details...and I have to give a ton of credit to Brad Bower of Digital Image Works for making the majority of the seminar arranvements. See http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com/convention99.html for constant updates. I have secured the conference room on the third floor of the Master Mechanics Building (Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum) for our use from noon thru 5 p.m. on Friday, August 27. Attendees will have to pay admission, but there is a $2 discount with your convention badge. CURRENT AGENDA: 12 Noon - 1:00 p.m. -- "Modeling a PRR Classic: The X-29 Box Cars" by Joe Gotaskie, "PRR-Talk" and PRRT&HS member. Joe describes current and not so current X-29 models that are available, how to detail them for the X-29 subclasses and put the proper paint and decals to the proper era. This a slide show with real X-29 models for illustration purposes. 10+ page illustrated hand out. 1:00 p.m. - 2:30 p.m. -- "Gray & Yellow Show" by Al Buchan, former PRR employee in the M&W department, "PRR-Talk" and PRRT&HS member. Slides from his tenure as an employee on the M&W department, showing M&W equipment, practices, and wreck train consists. His byline was in Model Railroading magazine three years ago on a series of articles on railroad maintenance of way practices and equipment. This talk is a natural intro for the society's session on Saturday about modeling PRR MoW. 3:00- ? -- To Be Announced. We have verbal confirmation and are waiting on written confirmation. This event is NOT at the museum. 5:00 p.m. - ? -- Dinner at Hoss's on Pleasant Valley Road (previously announced). Reservations required; contact Drew. Once we get the 3:00 event confirmed, I may add another session at the museum. How we doin' so far? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:41:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] I-1s vs N-1s 3rd Rail Division of Sunset has announced a 2-10-2 N-1s in 2 and 3 rail "O" scale. In their ad the say "with their superior pulling power to the I-1s" is this true - I've never really thought about it. The N-1, from photos, seems to have about the same boiler as the I-1, with perhaps, a bigger firebox, but did it really produce more power? Also, in the same short piece of text, the statement is made that they "pulled tremendous consists throughout the PRR lines" My impression, was that they were used primarily in Ohio - and rarely east of Pittsburgh, and this is one reason why none of the Class N were preserved. Should "Mort" Mann have capitalized the "L" in PRR lines ? (as in Lines West) At $1,200 "Early buy, list" I doubt if i'll be buying - just interested in "thoughts" from the list. Dick ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:55:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Electric locos (sl. off topic) > Okay Juice Jockeys, > > Here's a quiz to see how serious you really are...Can you identify* > (manufacturer, class) the locomotives pictured at: > > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer100.jpg > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer200.jpg > > Boy do they look a lot like a PRR loco!!!!! It's a GE E-50C Nominally the same interally as the last few E-44s (the ones with thesilicon rectifier diodes) At least that's what I recall... -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR I1 and N-1    Sent message From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Mon, Jun 28, 1999, 4:20pm To: VVA249@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] I-1s vs N-1s Dick        Glad to see a N1 in O scale again besides the ole' Max Gray's.. That is news to me! Just announced? 1200.00? The price keeps going up everytime he releases one. The I1's were $850.00, The J's $950.00 and now 1200.00 for a comparable sized loco? Glad I got my I and J when I did. He must keep an eye on the second hand market to see what peolpe are willing to pay. The J's are now selling $1500.00 and up and the I's about $1000.00 and up.       Not to get to technical with Mann, the I1s's did have a little more tractive effort than the N-1's. Not by much but somewhere around 90,000+ lbs to the N1's 84,000+ It may have seemed they pulled more cars because of the flat lands on the E&A. But that ore was heavy so I assume trains of great length was not seen often. Thats my 2 cents. Gary Original message, From:    VVA249@aol.com Dick Ross,                3rd Rail Division of Sunset has announced a 2-10-2 N-1s in 2 and 3 rail "O" scale.                In their ad the say "with their superior pulling power to the I-1s" is this true - I've never really thought about it. The N-1, from photos, seems to have about the same boiler as the I-1, with perhaps, a bigger firebox, but did it really produce more power?                Also, in the same short piece of text, the statement is made that they "pulled tremendous consists throughout the PRR lines" My impression, was that they were used primarily in Ohio - and rarely east of Pittsburgh, and this is one reason why none of the Class N were preserved. Should "Mort" Mann have capitalized the "L" in PRR lines ? (as in Lines West)                At $1,200 "Early buy, list" I doubt if i'll be buying - just interested in "thoughts" from the list. Dick ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:38:20 -0400 (EDT) > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Haserot [mailto:rhaserot@panix.com] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:41 PM > Subject: Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN > The first is labeled "No. Judson Ind." and has a processing date stamp of > "JUL 63." It depicts a room with a bank of interlocking plant switch levers > and a man sitting at a desk by some windows. If you look closely at the > windows, there is a faint image of tracks, and they appear to be at least > one storey down from the windows. All of this suggests to me that this is a > picture of the interlocking plant on the second floor of a tower in North > Judson, Indiana, in July of 1963. Looking at my railroad atlas for 1965, I > see that the New York Central, C&O, EL and Pennsylvania converged on North > Judson, so it makes sense that there would be a tower there. My questions > are: Was there indeed a tower in North Judson, IN in 1963, and if so, what > was its name and which railroad owned and operated it? Also, is it still in > existence? Indeed there was a tower there, named after the town. I don't have my resources at hand to get you the 2- (possibly 1-) letter telegraph designation. It was on the Pennsylvania's "Panhandle" main line to Chicago from Columbus, Ohio via Logansport, Indiana. For the Erie, it was on their main line to Chicago. Ditto for the C&O, if memory serves. For the NYC, it was their Kenkakee [Ill.] Branch. There is a museum of sorts there now. I was there last year, and the tower, from as best as I could tell in the fast-receding light, was gone. Not having the interlocking diagram available to me, I cannot tell you who owned it, apart from a general comment that at locations such as this, ownership and operation were split on a percentage basis, with the 1st RR there having seniority of (and thus majority) ownership and control, whereas the other(s) often paid slightly more than their "fair share" for operation, since by the Common Law, they were, after all, "imposing" on the senior railroad. The "modern" (no longer modern, of course) owner of 1963 would have inherited the majority of minority control from whichever predecessor railroad it had bought out. I'm cc:ing to several gents who may be able to help out more. > The second presents more of a challenge. It depicts a black box that I would > judge is about 1 ½ ft. high, 2 ft. wide and 2 in. deep. On the front of the > box is a diagram like a CTC track diagram depicting a north-south line in > green and an east-west line in yellow on the west side of the green line and > red on the east side of the green line. Stuck to the upper left hand corner > of the box is a calender with the name "Kentland Bank" on the top and a > July, 1981, calender page under it. I looked up Kentland in Street Atlas USA > and found that there is indeed a Kentland, Indiana; furthermore, my 1978 > rail atlas indicates that Kentland was the junction of a north-south Conrail > line and and east-west TP&W line. My questions on this one are: What is the > black box with the rail diagram on it, what facility (tower, dispatcher's > office, etc.) would it have be housed in, and what railroad would have been > the most likely owner? This is close to a *wild guess*. Ready? First off, my copy of a PRR map shows no Kentland on the TP&W. Background: PRR ran straight W from Logansport to Effner, on the Ind.-Ill. border, then TP&W took over, through nothing of any importance, to Peoria. Conrail in this area was almost certainly NYC, not PRR, the latter coming into Peoria from the SE. There is (was) a NYC line that hugged the Ind.-Ill. border. This may have been the line in question. On your Street Atlas, is Kentland near Sheldon, Watseka, etc.? Now for one more guess. You write "storey" [British spelling] but refer to the one-floor-up-from-ground- level as the "second floor" [an Americanism]. Might you be from the Great White North? -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:01:13 -0400 From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: Re: [PRR] Electric locos (sl. off topic) Too easy Bruce, even without the helper URL - American Electric Power Company's own little private coal hauling road. The model is the E50 - the last of the line - others included the VGN/NH et all E33's, PRR E44, MER E50s and I can't remember the name of the road but it's down in Texas and they use E25s (they just bought some surplus E60s form Mexico). They incorporated the latest refinements of the upgraded E44s plus a few other upgrades. I don't think this line is automated, as the photographer suggests, remote controlled yes, fully automated like the E60s on the Black Messa and Lake Powell -no. Some notes of interest - Same light layout as the E44 Same MU mounts and pilot configuration as the E44 Same Horn as the E44 Only one pantograph The main equipment blower looks to be on a horizontal axis rather than a vertical one like on the E44 plans. O[erates at 25,000 volts 60hz Single phase instead of 11,000 volts 25hz as the E44s did. cos wsbcos.com "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Okay Juice Jockeys, > > Here's a quiz to see how serious you really are...Can you identify* > (manufacturer, class) the locomotives pictured at: > > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer100.jpg > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/misc/mer200.jpg > > Boy do they look a lot like a PRR loco!!!!! > > *the identity is on the home page for the "MER" > http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/mer.html > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:49:10 -0400 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Keystone (was PRRT&HS Convention Agenda) Sorry for the delay, but I wanted to get my facts right before responding. Last week some mail appeared on my desk from a firm that specializes in document transfer from paper to electronic files. They offer a good example of what is possible and what it costs to have some of this stuff done. Here's one of their "specials" they are currently running: 1,000 8.5" X 11" sheets scanned and PDF files created, delivered on a CD: $250.00 Note that this does not include indexing, nor prepping of the sheets. Nor is an electronic version of the document needed as a starting point. And this *might* be special pricing for where I work because we are "special" and they are hungry for our big-time corporate business. However, my experience has been that these prices are in the ballpark for what this kind of service costs. Plus if they have to do anything at all to the sheets prior to scanning that will undoubtedly add to the cost. There HAS to be multiple firms in the Philadelphia/Harrisburg area that do this kind of service. When you get into this type of situation, having a relatively local firm do the work DOES make a difference regarding shipping costs, handling, logistics, etc. This type of firm is found in the yellow pages under "micrographics/microfilming". And has anyone ever counted how many sheets (one page counts as two sheets; front and back) have ever appeared in all the Keystones ever printed? Dale Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > Um Jerry? > > >I learned from Chuck Blardone about a year ago that The Keystone is not > >electronically paginated (PageMaker, QuarkXPress, etc.). The text is > >keyed in and then the text and photos are manually "stripped" into place. > >In order to post-produce The Keystone to CD-ROM, either electronic > >pre-press files would beed to be supplied or the entire issue would have > >to be computer re-paginated just to produce the CD. That's too much > >effort for too little return. > > How is that National Geographic, from before the computer was invented, was > put on CD? What I think is needed are high quality scans of each page, and > then perhaps some indexing? I'd even be willing to bet that there is an > overall index of ALL Keystones out there somewhere (of course, it ain't on > the PRRT&HS pages, but what do you expect ) > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > P.S. Did I miss something or did the last Keystone get switched at the > printer for the LIRRT&HS magazine? I mean, I know "we" owned "them" but... > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry > > PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com > _ _ > / \ / \ > ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ > |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| > | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | > |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| > | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN (fwd) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Apologies if this does NOT bounce back to WM340@aol.com for being a nonmember. At worst y'all will get 2 copies. > From: WM340@aol.com (Dave Verzi) > From foggy memory, North Judson was a PRR tower, "JUDD". Was demoed in the > mid 80's and housed a large Saxby & Farmer machine. The remote machine > probably controlled a nearby interlocking, though I don't recall which. The > NYC was protected my Style B semaphores, the Erie had style S semaphores. All > railroads are now removed from the area. > > One of he old PRR Historical Mags in the mid 80s had an article on North > Judson. > Kentland was a TP&W/NYC Automatic Interlocking near the state line. > > Dave Verzi -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:30:22 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN WM340@aol.com writes: > From foggy memory, North Judson was a PRR tower, "JUDD". Was demoed in the > mid 80's and housed a large Saxby & Farmer machine. North Judson was indeed manned by a PRR employee. IIRC, the telegraph symbol was JD. An operator friend of mine who worked the extra board out of Logansport worked there a few times in the late '60s / early '70s. I, personally, never got a chance to visit. The C&O ran parallel to the PRR and both were crossed by the Erie and NYC Kankakee branch. > The remote machine probably controlled a nearby interlocking, though I > don't recall which. I'm unsure of this, but I believe it controlled the interlocking at LaCrosse where the Monon Michigan City branch crossed. Prior to about 1940, the Chicago, Attica, and Southern also crossed at LaCrosse. > All railroads are now removed from the area. Not quite true. There is a remnant of the C&O that still runs through North Judson. I think that CSX runs an occasional local to service grain elevators in the area. It starts in Wellsboro, IN and heads south to LaCrosse over the Pere Marquette cutoff where it connects with the old C&O main and goes somewhere east of North Judson. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 29 Jun 99 07:13:31 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Station Fire As of 6:45 AM EDT TV Stations are still the fire in the old PRR Strafford station on the Philadelphia Main Line is still burning. Septa Trains are still running, but not stopping at the station. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest '99 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:00:54 -0400 Jerry wrote: >RailFest '99 will be held on October 2-3 this year. > >New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! > >For more details, see the Timetable at "Keystone Crossings": > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html Once again we modelers have to choose between Railfest and Timmonium (hmm, maybe I can do both this year? Naw, the wife won't go for that!). Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Question on Red Caboose X-29 Construction Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 09:47:59 -0400 From: Jerry I have about three dozen Red Caboose X-29's (various paint schemes) to build up. I wanted to make sure I interpreted the directions correctly... There is a main directions page that shows how to build the complete car. There are also alternate directions for the K brake and for the AB brake. These three sets of directions are generic, to apply to all road names. It is my "interpretation" that to correctly build the PRR X-29 that I need only follow the main directions sheet...which indicates that the PRR used a "quasi" system...that they kept the K brake wheel location when the cars were upgraded to AB brakes. Rather than get into a lengthy discussion of what brakes are needed, please answer this simple quesion: Am I correct in only following the main directions page and ignoring the optional directions? Just an observation: These kits have wonderful detail, but this first one will take me about four hours to complete. I can see where I might get the time down to about three hours per car. Contrast that to the Bowser's, which only take about 20-30 minutes, but have less detail, molded grabs, the wrong color (IMHO). Most Bowser cars retail for $10.95 while most Red Caboose cars retail for $14.95. If you've got the time, spend the extra $4! I will have a variety of assembled Bowser and Red Caboose kits on display at my booth at the convention in August. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Convention '99 - Feedback? Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 10:30:01 -0400 From: Jerry RE: Convention '99 Alternate Agenda http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com/convention99.html Last night I released descriptions for two of the alternate events that Brad Bower and I were able to put together. We need feedback from those of you planning/considering attending, before we add more... If you were already planning to attend on Friday, is the "track" attractive to you (vs. the society's trip to Lewistown)? If you were not planning to attend on Friday, might you reconsider given this new "track"? If you weren't planning to attend at all, might you reconsider given this new "track"? We have room for at least one more session at the museum (Friday at 3 p.m.). I have an idea for it, but I'd like to solicit suggestions. Anyone? Any other comments? Who all is planning to go at this point, and what days? Respond direct, I'll make an online list of "definite", "tentative", etc. Brad and I would like an idea of online participation. We will be heavily "papering" the convention beginning on Thursday when Brad arrives. As we will get closer, we will try to get cooperation out of national to include our events in the final schedule handed out at registration. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigBeerBob@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:36:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] Strafford, PA station fire The all-news radio station is reporting a fire in the Strafford, PA station...the one built for the Centennial Exhibition, the "gingerbread" station...doesn't sound good, the damage may be severe...stay tuned to PRR-Talk for late breaking developments... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:56:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] Car Shop Tours >New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! Why can't this be set up in conjunction with the PRRT&H convention? Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Car Shop Tours Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 12:17:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/29/99 11:56 AM, JOELPRR@aol.com (JOELPRR@aol.com) wrote: >>New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! > >Why can't this be set up in conjunction with the PRRT&H convention? Perhaps it might have, if it had been requested in time... I've been working directly with Peter Barton, director of the museum. Believe it or not, the society NEVER contacted them about the fact that the convention was coming to Altoona. Not a word! Peter tells me they "could" have arranged all sorts of tours...including an all-day event that covers both sides of the slope from Altoona to South Fork! Peter and I worked out details for "PRR-Talk" to have the museum's conference room -- free of charge -- for five hours. Only catch is, attendees must pay admission to the museum. However, there is a $2 discount when you show your conference badge. There is also a discount for the Horseshoe Curve grounds. These discounts will apply to the whole conference, not just "PRR-Talk" attendees. Now why couldn't the society have arranged that? I did it in one afternoon! As for the tours: At RailFest they expect 13,000 people. With that kind of crowd, they know what they need in terms of parking and traffic control, volunteers, etc. They know there will be enough interest in the Car Shops. As for our convention, there are usually only about 600 registrants. How many of those would visit the Car Shops? Even if the society HAD contacted them, there may not have been enough interest to warrant the setups (costs and inconveniences) they would have to go incur to allow a tour. As for the tours, take two: Oops, can't say yet! ;-) The "management" of the society may not like it, but by the end of the convention the membership will all know who/what "PRR-Talk" is!!! We will be making a definite impression -- hopefully all good. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:43:50 EDT Subject: [PRR] North Judson IN Interlocking Hi gize, Katie and I were thrown out of North Judson in the very early 70s --this sticks in my mind for some reason . So it's a place I have no pictures of. But its interlocking diagram was studied last winter by Bill Jewett and John Schulz. Perhaps they have more info for us: In a message dated 6/28/99 8:24:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: << Indeed there was a tower there, named after the town. I don't have my resources at hand to get you the 2- (possibly 1-) letter telegraph designation. It was on the Pennsylvania's "Panhandle" main line to Chicago from Columbus, Ohio via Logansport, Indiana. For the Erie, it was on their main line to Chicago. Ditto for the C&O, if memory serves. For the NYC, it was their Kenkakee [Ill.] Branch. There is a museum of sorts there now. I was there last year, and the tower, from as best as I could tell in the fast-receding light, was gone. Not having the interlocking diagram available to me >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:10:26 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Question on Red Caboose X-29 Construction Jerry, >It is my "interpretation" that to correctly build the PRR X-29 that I >need only follow the main directions sheet...which indicates that the PRR >used a "quasi" system...that they kept the K brake wheel location when >the cars were upgraded to AB brakes. > >Rather than get into a lengthy discussion of what brakes are needed, >please answer this simple quesion: Am I correct in only following the >main directions page and ignoring the optional directions? Not quites, but you also wouldn't be wrong. In the "buy war bonds" X-29 kit, Red Caboose has included parts for both the K brake and a later "speed brake" (Ajax like brake wheel) as well as the vertical brake shaft. This kit include a second sheet with K brake instructions on one side and AB instructions on the other. Given that this car is WWII era, and the "speed brake" came out in that era, you could model either version of the AB car in your era. >Just an observation: These kits have wonderful detail, but this first one >will take me about four hours to complete. I can see where I might get >the time down to about three hours per car. Contrast that to the >Bowser's, which only take about 20-30 minutes, but have less detail, >molded grabs, the wrong color (IMHO). Most Bowser cars retail for $10.95 >while most Red Caboose cars retail for $14.95. If you've got the time, >spend the extra $4! Clearly worth the extra $4, and when you get cranking and learn the excentricities of the kit, you should be able to reduce build time to around 2 hours. After all, there really aren't that many part to attach Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Seminar Ideas Sought Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 15:08:19 -0400 From: Jerry Our one uncommitted sessions for the convention has fallen through. The two mentioned yesterday are definites, but a 30-person limited session for the 3-5 time slot is a "no go". I've got the conference room (50-60 seats) for the noon-5 p.m. time frame, but we've only scheduled it from noon-2:30. That leaves time for one, perhaps two more seminars. Any ideas? I thought of "Modeling the 'Blue Ribbon' Fleet", a session on modeling passenger operations. I'm not an expert, but I'd be willing to "MC" a talk about who makes accurate models (based on list posts) and display some models. I would need a lot of help from those who do a lot of passenger modeling and would need samples as well. Another idea is to invite the Cincinatti Modelers group to do a session. At least year's convention they gave good talks on PRR Gondolas and on PRR TrucTrain Trailers. If one of the list's resident diesel buffs were willing, a session on "PRR Diesel Spotting Features" might be good...what phases of what locos were in use and how to differentiate them from other phases. Models would be integral to such a seminar. What do YOU want to learn about? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ted.andrews@woolpert.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 13:48:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN Roger: I dug up some information on both North Judson and Kentland, Indiana: NORTH JUDSON: The tower's call letters were "AH". It was built in 1907 and remained in service until around 1979 or 1980. Shortly thereafter, the tower was raised. The Pennsy operated and maintained the tower with the other railroads sharing the costs. The tower looked like most PRR wooden frame towers in Lines West areas; it had a rectangular floor plan. It too was painted as per PRR standards. The June 1981 edition of the "Keystone" has a photograph of the tower. A color photo exists in the book, "Erie Lackawanna--the West End" by Larry DeYoung. The North Judson interlocking was one of the most interesting plants in the western end of the PRR system. (In my opinion) Four railroads (PRR, Erie, NYC, and C&O) all crossed each other with a few hundred of one another. The PRR and the Erie were double tracked while the NYC and C&O had single tracks. The tower was basically surrounded by the tracks and diamonds. One interesting feature of the interlocking was that the two Erie tracks had to be spread apart about 20-25 feet to accommodate the NYC / C&O diamond. Space was at a premium at "AH" tower! KENTLAND: There was a tower in Kentland that was operated by the PRR but maintained by the NYC. I do not know of what it looked like or when it was raised. The box that you have may be a control box to control Kentland remotely from another location. The most probable location is Sheff, Indiana, approximately 5-10 miles south of Kentland. This is where the NYC Danville to Indiana Harbor line (north-south) crossed the NYC Indianapolis to Kankakee line. There was small yard and enginehouse there along with the tower. Everything at Sheff is gone with the exception of two single track lines and a diamond; it is now run by the KB&S. I hope that this information helps you. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN Author: rhensley@anderson.cioe.com at Internet Date: 6/28/99 2:34 PM This was posted to another list that I belong to and I thought of this list immediately. Roger -----Original Message----- From: Bob Haserot [mailto:rhaserot@panix.com] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Mystery Slides -- No. Judson & Kentland IN I recently acquired some railroad slides from the 50's through the early 80's, and some have scanty identification at best. I'd really appreciate any help I could get with respect to two in particular. The first is labeled "No. Judson Ind." and has a processing date stamp of "JUL 63." It depicts a room with a bank of interlocking plant switch lever= s and a man sitting at a desk by some windows. If you look closely at the windows, there is a faint image of tracks, and they appear to be at least one storey down from the windows. All of this suggests to me that this is = a picture of the interlocking plant on the second floor of a tower in North Judson, Indiana, in July of 1963. Looking at my railroad atlas for 1965, I see that the New York Central, C&O, EL and Pennsylvania converged on North Judson, so it makes sense that there would be a tower there. My questions are: Was there indeed a tower in North Judson, IN in 1963, and if so, what was its name and which railroad owned and operated it? Also, is it still i= n existence? The second presents more of a challenge. It depicts a black box that I wou= ld judge is about 1 =BD ft. high, 2 ft. wide and 2 in. deep. On the front of = the box is a diagram like a CTC track diagram depicting a north-south line in green and an east-west line in yellow on the west side of the green line a= nd red on the east side of the green line. Stuck to the upper left hand corne= r of the box is a calender with the name "Kentland Bank" on the top and a July, 1981, calender page under it. I looked up Kentland in Street Atlas U= SA and found that there is indeed a Kentland, Indiana; furthermore, my 1978 rail atlas indicates that Kentland was the junction of a north-south Conra= il line and and east-west TP&W line. My questions on this one are: What is th= e black box with the rail diagram on it, what facility (tower, dispatcher's office, etc.) would it have be housed in, and what railroad would have bee= n the most likely owner? Again, thanks so much in advance for any information anyone can provide me= . Bob Haserot rhaserot@panix.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Question on Red Caboose X-29 Construction Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 14:36:48 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/29/99 2:10 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >>Rather than get into a lengthy discussion of what brakes are needed, >>please answer this simple quesion: Am I correct in only following the >>main directions page and ignoring the optional directions? > >Not quites, but you also wouldn't be wrong. In the "buy war bonds" X-29 >kit, Red Caboose has included parts for both the K brake and a later "speed >brake" (Ajax like brake wheel) as well as the vertical brake shaft. This >kit include a second sheet with K brake instructions on one side and AB >instructions on the other. Given that this car is WWII era, and the "speed >brake" came out in that era, you could model either version of the AB car >in your era. Okay, so what's best for 1954? > >>Just an observation: These kits have wonderful detail, but this first one >>will take me about four hours to complete. I can see where I might get >>the time down to about three hours per car. Contrast that to the >>Bowser's, which only take about 20-30 minutes, but have less detail, >>molded grabs, the wrong color (IMHO). Most Bowser cars retail for $10.95 >>while most Red Caboose cars retail for $14.95. If you've got the time, >>spend the extra $4! > >Clearly worth the extra $4, and when you get cranking and learn the >excentricities of the kit, you should be able to reduce build time to >around 2 hours. After all, there really aren't that many part to attach Guess I should have mentioned that a dozen of these are the "REA" cars that require drilling a dozen plus holes with a pin vise! Lotsa extra grabs and stirrups on these guys. And if I wasn't all thumbs... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Red Caboose X-29's Jerry, When I built my fleet of X-29's I found it very effective in cutting the building time by building them in assembly line fashion. Fisrt thing to do is get a dozen or so double edge razor blades, cut them in two longways. You need sharp thin blades to cut those parts from the sprue. An axacto knife will not do!!!. Once you build one car and know what parts are going to be used it goes even quicker. I take 4 kits set them on the table, take one of those kits and cut every part off the sprues I know I am going to use. Place all the parts in the box lid and start on the next kit. Do this until all 4 kits a ready to assemble. This way you will be building 4 cars a once. You will be surprised of the ammount of time saved doing it this way. Of course if you build cars with different brake setups and the REA cars together, it defeats the purpose of an assembly line procedure because of the variations you have to keep an eye out for. So it is best to build cars in same type lots. I took several cars with me to Arizona on my vacation and had them done in 1 hour. Depending on how many you have completed already, the time will vary on your experience. As to the detail you were asking about I think Bruce has it correct. Good Luck!.....Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Convention Attendees List Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 14:14:15 -0400 From: Jerry I have posted the list -- to date -- of those planning to attend the convention in August. http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Caboose X-29's Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 15:45:43 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/29/99 3:25 PM, doloris mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > When I built my fleet of X-29's I found it very effective in >cutting the building time by building them in assembly line fashion. I was considering this, especially since the REA versions need the extra holes drilled. >Fisrt thing to do is get a dozen or so double edge razor blades, cut >them in two longways. You need sharp thin blades to cut those parts from >the sprue. An axacto knife will not do!!!. Agreed. I, however, purchased sprue shears and it was the best thing I ever did! Xuron has a nice three-piece kit that includes their traditional rail cutter, a curved edge sprue cutter, and a pair of pliers (so much better than tweezers at holding and placing parts!). >Once you build one car and >know what parts are going to be used it goes even quicker. I take 4 >kits set them on the table, take one of those kits and cut every part >off the sprues I know I am going to use. Place all the parts in the box >lid and start on the next kit. Do this until all 4 kits a ready to >assemble. This way you will be building 4 cars a once. You will be >surprised of the ammount of time saved doing it this way. Of course if >you build cars with different brake setups and the REA cars together, >it defeats the purpose of an assembly line procedure because of the >variations you have to keep an eye out for. So it is best to build cars >in same type lots. Sounds like a plan...thanks! >I took several cars with me to Arizona on my vacation >and had them done in 1 hour. Depending on how many you have completed >already, the time will vary on your experience. When are you going on vacation again...I'd hate for you to be bored!!! I'm going on vacation next week and my wife actually made this suggestion to me. Wonders never cease! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Red Caboose X-29's Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:14:27 -0400 When assembling the Red Caboose cars, consider investing in the PBL Despruing Nippers. The super fine nippers will enable flush cuts between the sprue and part. They are pricey at $21.95 per pair but they WILL cut down on assembly time over the Xuron Shears/Xacto Blade methods. They are also real handy for Cannon and Hi-Tech detailing parts; especially the brake wheels. PBL has a description and illustration on their web site at http://www.zapcom.net/~pbl/tools.htm . We have them in stock and also have a sale of up to 25% on Red Caboose cars until the end of the week. Check out the Weekly Special listing in our RAILROAD TELEGRAPH. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----snip----- > >>Fisrt thing to do is get a dozen or so double edge razor blades, cut >>them in two longways. You need sharp thin blades to cut those parts from >>the sprue. An axacto knife will not do!!!. > >Agreed. I, however, purchased sprue shears and it was the best thing I >ever did! Xuron has a nice three-piece kit that includes their >traditional rail cutter, a curved edge sprue cutter, and a pair of pliers >(so much better than tweezers at holding and placing parts!). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] GR&I and Lines West From: Michael E Allen Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:15:03 EDT On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 19:13:02 EDT RickTipton@aol.com writes: >Where are our GR&I experts? ... To which Professor Allen replies: I am by no means a GR&I expert but there is a reason that my bright red Hi-rail has a Michigan license plate: M&NE = Manistee &North Eastern became part of the Pere Marquette The Lake City branch was the original Cadillac and Lake City Toledo to Detroit was trackage rights on the PM and the Wabash acquired in the early 20s As far as Mackinac Island goes, the Marketeers were not far off. catch the movie "GRAND HOTEL" some time. MEA ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:59:16 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Timmonium vs Railfest was Re: [PRR] RailFest '99 Greetings to Jerry and the group, May not have to "choose". Saw that the Timmonium show folks are adding a new location. Seems I remember seeing they will have a show in Gettysburg the weekend of August 7th. Check MR and RMC. Maybe that will help, especially if your wife is a civil war buff. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 07:00 AM 6/29/99 -0400, jbreon wrote: >Jerry wrote: > > >>RailFest '99 will be held on October 2-3 this year. >> >>New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! >> >>For more details, see the Timetable at "Keystone Crossings": >> >> http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html > > Once again we modelers have to choose between Railfest and Timmonium >(hmm, maybe I can do both this year? Naw, the wife won't go for that!). >Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:21:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] MY FRIEND THE LATE JOHN KEEL ... I haven't seen it yet but I understand that John's article on kitbashing Weaver "O" scale cars into H-21s is in the current issue of "O" Scale News "1:48" List members will recall that I mentioned this article at the time John died, about the end of May Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLCCR@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:43:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Strafford, PA station fire The fire happened overnight (6/28-6/29). I can report first-hand sighting of station condition as I passed it twice today by rail; although I'm not a fire damage expert, and a moving train doesn't exactly provide the best observation point. Septa/Amtrak crews were on-site when I passed this a.m. and this evening. The roof was damaged (some plastic sheeting was placed over two or three large holes); the fire looks like it gutted most of the inside or at least half of it. At least one wall has extensive damage (with a couple holes). For safefy, the platform area was closed-off this morning and not sure when it will reopen. It appears that they are trying to stabilize so as to allow the platform to be used asap (plastic netting was in-place this evening; but didn't see any passengers on platform (SEPTA was skipping stop on Eastbound runs this a.m.). Does any one know if its damaged beyond repair/restoration? Would really miss this structure if it becomes a Bus-shelter shanty. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:17:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Car Shop Tours From: "Doug and Marianne" >As for the tours: At RailFest they expect 13,000 people. With that kind >of crowd, they know what they need in terms of parking and traffic >control, volunteers, etc. They know there will be enough interest in the >Car Shops. As for our convention, there are usually only about 600 >registrants. How many of those would visit the Car Shops? Even if the >society HAD contacted them, there may not have been enough interest to >warrant the setups (costs and inconveniences) they would have to go incur >to allow a tour. The last convention in Altoona (about 5 or 6 years ago) had bus tours to the Juniata shops and Holidaysburg car shops. They were both fascinating and I was very surprised to hear they are not included this year, or any other interesting tours for that matter. I do hope that there will be an open house at the model railroad club. The model railroad is OK, but the artifacts hanging on the walls are the real attraction. Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:04:08 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Triumph I From: "Doug and Marianne" I am reading the book Triumph I by Charles Roberts prior to coming to Altoona. I've heard a few negative remarks about the book, but I wondering what the specific issues are, other than the pomposity of the author's annoying editorial comments. It seems to have excellent historic photographs and seems generally well researched, although it is interspersed with a fair amount of speculation. Are there other opinions of the book? Thanks. Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:52:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29,s Folks, I've got a few of the Red Caboose kits, but one part has me puzzled. I picked up one of the B&O M26 versions and the darn thing has a roofwalk that resembles a thin piece of lasagna that's been dipped in oxide paint. Is this amount of warpage normal for these kits, and if so, anyone know an easy trick for getting the thing to lay flat? Short of equiping my HO scale brakemen with skateboards, I don't want the car inspectors putting this thing on the RIP track on it's first run.I've built Tichy, Westerfield and Inftermountain cars all having really nice roofwalks, but ain't ever seen anything quite like this noodle. Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest '99 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:12:10 -0400 .---------- > From: jbreon > To: Jerry ; prr-talk@dsop.com; conrail-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest '99 > Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:00 AM > > Jerry wrote: > > > >RailFest '99 will be held on October 2-3 this year. > > > >New this year is the opening of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops for touring! > > > >For more details, see the Timetable at "Keystone Crossings": > > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html > > Once again we modelers have to choose between Railfest and Timmonium > (hmm, maybe I can do both this year? Naw, the wife won't go for that!). > Jerry Breon > > > And of course you tell her everything !!!! Thanks, Bill (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa.> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29,s Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:39:08 -0400 >Folks, >I've got a few of the Red Caboose kits, but one part has me puzzled. I picked >up one of the B&O M26 versions and the darn thing has a roofwalk that >resembles a thin piece of lasagna that's been dipped in oxide paint. Is this >amount of warpage normal for these kits, and if so, anyone know an easy trick >for getting the thing to lay flat? Short of equiping my HO scale brakemen >with skateboards, I don't want the car inspectors putting this thing on the >RIP track on it's first run.I've built Tichy, Westerfield and Inftermountain >cars all having really nice roofwalks, but ain't ever seen anything quite >like this noodle. >Thanks, >Barry Peltier Barry and all, I, for one, am happy that these manufacturers are finally supplying thin, scale thickness roofwalks. The technique that I use for installing them is to position the roofwalk on the car without any glue, holding it in place with rubber bands wrapped around the car in about three or four places. I make sure that the roofwalk is centered and positioned as I want it. Starting at one end, I remove one of the rubber bands and gently lift the roofwalk so that I can apply ACC to two or three of the walk support surfaces and attach the roofwalk to them. I then remove the next rubber band and glue a few more spots. If you work your way down the car from one end to the other in this fashion everything will come out straight and flat. Just keep checking the position to be sure the roofwalk doesn't get moved when each rubber band is removed prior to gluing. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Attaching Roofwalks Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:26:12 -0400 Hi Guys, I guess I should have proof-read my earlier post about my method of aligning and gluing those thin, model roofwalks before hitting the "send" key. The technique is to actually remove ALL the rubber bands after the first end is attached. This allows you to raise the unglued portion of the roofwalk high enough to apply the ACC to the next two or three support surfaces. I can do it.....I just can't say it! Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:19:29 EDT Subject: [PRR] color question Question for the list: What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the interior of a steam engine cab? Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Convention Attendees List Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 10:38:23 -0400 From: Jerry The list of convention attendees is growing: conventiongoing99.html I have decided to add the hometowns to the list, to make things interesting. Would the following individuals please e-mail me their hometowns so I can update their listing (I did not save your prior e-mails): Bill Bigler Al Buchan Joe Gotaskie Todd Horton Doug Nelson Also, who was it that is bringing Claus Schlund? Did I spell his name right? Is he on the list? And where is he from? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:52:34 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] color question >Question for the list: > >What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the >interior of a steam engine cab? BN Green, mixed around 1:1 with reefer white gives a nice "apple green" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." - Dave Barry PRRMO: The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://prrmo.pennsyrr.com _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| |_ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _| | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| | |/_________________________\|_|_|________________________________|_| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | |=| 0==0 0==0 |=| ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] color question Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 12:38:25 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/30/99 11:19 AM, JOELPRR@aol.com (JOELPRR@aol.com) wrote: >What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the >interior of a steam engine cab? Geez....I saw the subject and was sure this was gonna be another Brunswick Green discussion!!! According to the PRR documents regarding the painting of the interior of locomotive cabs -- which the late John Keel provided to me and I have yet to post -- the color was "olive green". Not sure what that translates to in Polyscale, but it might lead you in the right direction. I have the PRRT&HS color drift cards, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't one of them. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Bowser freight cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:38:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] color question In a message dated 6/30/99 12:04:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JOELPRR@aol.com writes: << Question for the list: What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the interior of a steam engine cab? >> The only color specification for interior of locomotive cabs I have seen is green (not DGLE) with Indian Red floors and the backhead black. The various valves were color coded as well. However, within a short time most of the cab was covered with soot and/or coal dust. So whatever you paint it needs a heavy overlay of black or grime. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West at the PRRT&HS Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 14:55:34 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/30/99 12:52 PM, LINESWEST@aol.com (LINESWEST@aol.com) wrote: >I think it >fitting that there be some LinesWest oriented activity even if it is nothing >more than investigating products shipped by the PRR arising from German >tradition and Heritage in agriculture and the process of grain products >(yeah, sampling local Brewski's) Oh, yeah, did I mention the "evening track"? 8-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Athearn locos and cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (doloris mittner) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR CAB COLOR   List,         This may become a subject like DGLE. The color sure was a green but "olive" I doubt that. It was a much different green than that. I have some photos of the Marketing Corp. of America's 1/32 Brass scale M1a. These are museum quality models. And with the Smithsonian Institute involved with the project I am sure the model is correct. The color is almost like the Jade green of the NYC. The PRR named this color CAB GREEN. I would have to look at paint colors from different manufactures to come up with a match. But Jade Green is a good start. Myself I would tone it down just a bit though .......Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:53:51 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29,s --Boundary_(ID_csmcKghjCH/e90qk2VpSqg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Jerry and the List, I've put together about a dozen of the Red Caboose X-29s. While the roofwalk is curvy, the solution is pretty straightforward. I cut the pins off of the roofwalk, and sand the bottom smooth (also removes the paint on the bottom, making for a better bond; for the same reason, I sand the places on the roof where the roofwalk will be glued). I apply liquid plastic cement to four of the ten roofwalk posts (there is probably a better term here, please enlighten me!) on the roof, and hold the roofwalk to the posts. The next day, I tack the 'walk down onto the next four posts, and on the third day, I do the last two. This isn't very speedy, but the roofwalk does go down straight, and I assemble other portions of the car(s) while the glue dries. Now, if someone could just show me how to avoid breaking the roofwalk supports when I remove them from the sprue with my flush cutters, I'd be all set.... Doug BPX29@aol.com wrote: > Folks, > I've got a few of the Red Caboose kits, but one part has me puzzled. I picked > up one of the B&O M26 versions and the darn thing has a roofwalk that > resembles a thin piece of lasagna that's been dipped in oxide paint. Is this > amount of warpage normal for these kits, and if so, anyone know an easy trick > for getting the thing to lay flat? Short of equiping my HO scale brakemen > with skateboards, I don't want the car inspectors putting this thing on the > RIP track on it's first run.I've built Tichy, Westerfield and Inftermountain > cars all having really nice roofwalks, but ain't ever seen anything quite > like this noodle. > Thanks, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --Boundary_(ID_csmcKghjCH/e90qk2VpSqg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Jerry and the List,

I've put together about a dozen of the Red Caboose X-29s.  While the roofwalk is curvy, the solution is pretty straightforward.  I cut the pins off of the roofwalk, and sand the bottom smooth (also removes the paint on the bottom, making for a better bond; for the same reason, I sand the places on the roof where the roofwalk will be glued).  I apply liquid plastic cement to four of the ten roofwalk posts (there is probably a better term here, please enlighten me!) on the roof, and hold the roofwalk to the posts.  The next day, I tack the 'walk down onto the next four posts, and on the third day, I do the last two.  This isn't very speedy, but the roofwalk does go down straight, and I assemble other portions of the car(s) while the glue dries.
Now, if someone could just show me how to avoid breaking the roofwalk supports when I remove them from the sprue with my flush cutters, I'd be all set....

Doug

BPX29@aol.com wrote:

Folks,
I've got a few of the Red Caboose kits, but one part has me puzzled. I picked
up one of the B&O M26 versions and the darn thing has a roofwalk that
resembles a thin piece of lasagna that's been dipped in oxide paint. Is this
amount of warpage normal for these kits, and if so, anyone know an easy trick
for getting the thing to lay flat? Short of equiping my HO scale brakemen
with skateboards, I don't want the car inspectors putting this thing on the
RIP track on it's first run.I've built Tichy, Westerfield and Inftermountain
cars all having really nice roofwalks, but ain't ever seen anything quite
like this noodle.
Thanks,
Barry Peltier

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--Boundary_(ID_csmcKghjCH/e90qk2VpSqg)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:52:43 EDT Subject: [PRR] Lines West at the PRRT&HS To all, By one way or another I'll be in Altoona in August. I think it fitting that there be some LinesWest oriented activity even if it is nothing more than investigating products shipped by the PRR arising from German tradition and Heritage in agriculture and the process of grain products (yeah, sampling local Brewski's) I'm hoping to have then Fans Fest Video edited by then. Ant suggestions are welcome. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] color question Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 14:07:05 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/30/99 12:38 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCWORR@aol.com) wrote: >In a message dated 6/30/99 12:04:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >JOELPRR@aol.com >writes: > ><< Question for the list: > > What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the > interior of a steam engine cab? > >> >The only color specification for interior of locomotive cabs I have seen is >green (not DGLE) with Indian Red floors and the backhead black. The various >valves were color coded as well. However, within a short time most of the >cab was covered with soot and/or coal dust. So whatever you paint it >needs a >heavy overlay of black or grime. I have the "official" PRR guide spec'ing painting of steam locos. I'll try to post it this evening. (Hey, I've only had it for a year!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. This month: Athearn locos and cars on special! ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:00:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] color question In a message dated 6/30/99 13:34:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Question for the list: > >What color (preferably in PolyScale) would you recommend to paint the >interior of a steam engine cab? >> Actually, I think that the modelflex PRR green is the correct color. As far as I know it has no other application within the PRR. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:39:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS, open your arms To all, Things have been pretty tight around SJ (since we've got a replica of the depot here I'm going to start using the telegraph handle for the Yellow Springs Block station). Social Security says I'm not disabled but the state rehab folks talking top the same Doc sez I am. Guess that places m e firmly in limbo. I'm hoping my next batch of stuff on e-Bay raises enough scratch for me to get there as I have to place an order with my hat and shirt man next week. If nobody outside of Pennsylvania knows PRRT&HS exists, then it will die a long linger ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:12:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] Model Questions! In a message dated 6/16/99 11:23:05 PM EST, mittner@webtv.net writes: << He was known for his great looking Brass Engravings of Locomotive Keystones. True to scale! Does anyone have any of these on hand I can purchase or knows any info on where I can locate any. They came on a sheet of brass already engraved. You had to cut them out yourself. I was told they came 20 to a sheet which was roughly 2"x2". >> At the last PRRT&HS Convention I bought some Etched Brass "O" Scale Keystones, Builders Plates and Tender plates like the parts you described from: Doug Jones "Schuykill Division" 9835 Singleton Road Bethesda, Md. 20817-2300 They now come carded, with a wide range of numbers at least one correct for each claass and sub class of Loco In "O" Scale the Builders Plates are readable - can't guarantee other scales ! Aside to Steve -he may also have the trust plates you are looking for Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:54:19 EDT Subject: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29's (again) Guys, Thanks for the tips on Red Caboose roof walks, but I think this one's too far gone for these remedies, which I'm sure work fine on normal cases. The walk I'm looking at has vertical S-curves as well as considerable twisting and even ten attachment points won't do it. I'm going to resort to my old favorite for wood roof walks and use three parallel lengths of 1X 6 scale lumber. When painted the contrast in colors is quite pleasing, as well as more realistic, seeing as how painted wood weathers differently than painted steel. Sure is a nice car, though. If we could just get these folks to da a B&O wagontop box! Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS How Many Members? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 19:04:48 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/30/99 5:13 PM, Charles Blardone, Jr. (xxxxx) wrote: >PRRT&HS membership is about 3,300. Around 300-350 members attend annual >meetings; adding wives "significant others", groupies?? brings the total >attendance to about 450-550. > Just in case any one was interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] 6% Plan To Attend, Thus Far Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 19:10:55 -0400 From: Jerry Thus far 21 subscribers have expressed their intention to attend the PRRT&HS Convention in August. That's just over 6% of our subscriber base. Based on numbers Chuck Blardone supplied (3,300 national members, 350 attending), about 10% of the total membership attends, on average. I'm sure we'll exceed that. More proof that we are a "force to be reckoned with"! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:11:38 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Altoona Railfanning From: "Doug and Marianne" Can someone give some advice for railfanning in the Altoona-Curve-Galitzen area. I've heard that the Conrail police are very active and strict. Is this the same under NS? I would like to visit some of the sites just east of the Galitzen tunnels such as Bennington Curve and MG tower. Can (or should) one drive on the dirt roads to either of these locations. Is it more advisable to hike in? What about the slopes on either side of Horseshoe Curve. Can you walk near the ROW without problem? Are there any good accessible vantage points that are not overgrown? Thanks for any help and suggestions. Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:04:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29's (again) Bill, Thanks for the tip. That sounds right up my alley, and the interior I hadn't even thought about. One of the things I distinctly recall from a childhood spent a bit too dangerously around the yards was the wooden interior of the good old 40 foot box car. (Man, if my kids ever did that.....) Add a few sticks of scrap wood, grain doors or spilled cement and it would really come back. It really is the little things that count. Thanks again for a great tip. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Speaking of Red Caboose X29's (again) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:07:28 -0700 Barry... Red Caboose does a set of laser-cut roofwalks and interiors, cut from real wood, for these cars. A little pricey at about 5 bucks for it all, but it is rather nice. You might try it...a little Floquil Driftwood (a thinned grey) on it and a dry-brushing of body color and it would look just like the real thing! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:48:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] ALTOONA CONVENTION/ KEYSTONE (sorta long) Pennsy folks, I've certainly read with interest some of your thoughts on the PRRT&HS doings of late. This year's convention doesn't seem terribly exciting, considering the potential of the Altoona area, and i'm glad to see the "PRR-Talk Chapter" doing it's best to improve things. It's good to see people actually doing something instead of just complaining, especially as complaints seem wasted on the "management" of the society. I don't know if it's my imagination but the recent conventions just don't seem to be coming off real well, judging from the feedback I've heard, and some of my own experiences. Perhaps there's too big a communication gap between the main men and us peasants down here in the infantry, I don't know. But I do know that the Milwaukee Road Historical Society had last year's convention in Milbank, S.D. (MILBANK, SOUTH DAKOTA!!) and it was pretty good, with fan trips, clinics, slide shows and some really nice model demos and displays, not to mention hotel space that was still available more than three days after the convention site was selected (unlike the PRRT&HS in Pittsburgh). So, a big thanks again for getting something going. This way, if I can somehow make it, I'll get my own flop over at Best Western in Huntingdon and still have stuff to do while those six guys get saluted over at their library on the depot outing. As for the Keystone this time, well, what can a guy say? What, 64 pages, and over 50 of them on a backwater of the Long Island?! And that's part ONE? Hell, those lantern articles had me deep in thought about renewal. That's the bad side. The good side is that the Keystone comes out good and steady four times a year, is of very high physical quality, and generally has articles of interest in every issue. Not to mention the fine artwork. Perhaps because it's the main reason I belong to the society (and probably many others), I feel the Keystone has to be kept to a high standard. And generally it is, and even mundane Pennsy is a whole lot better than no Pennsy. To paraphrase an old saying, the Pennsy is like sex or pizza: when it's good it's really good, and when it's bad it's still pretty good. Best regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Railfanning Date: Wed, 30 Jun 99 21:40:20 -0400 From: Jerry On 6/30/99 9:11 PM, Doug and Marianne (babal@slip.net) wrote: >Can someone give some advice for railfanning in the Altoona-Curve-Galitzen >area. I've heard that the Conrail police are very active and strict. Is >this the same under NS? Worse! > >I would like to visit some of the sites just east of the Galitzen tunnels >such as Bennington Curve and MG tower. Can (or should) one drive on the >dirt roads to either of these locations. Is it more advisable to hike in? None of the above are advisable. All are tresspassing. > >What about the slopes on either side of Horseshoe Curve. Can you walk near >the ROW without problem? Are there any good accessible vantage points that >are not overgrown? I think you can from below, but you've got a VERY long hike to do so from above. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: David William Gnuse Subject: [PRR] railpace maps on Altoona area Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:25:32 -0400 Does anyone know when the last Railpace maps were done for the area between altoona and pittsburgh and or altoona and harrisburg? I have one in the series, but the date that it is to be continued is too dark to read. Any help is appreciated. David --------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Gnuse dgnuse@erols.com kickitup@railfan.net Fractal Page Railfan Page www.erols.com/dgnuse kickitup.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:29:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] railpace maps on Altoona area From: "Doug and Marianne" >Does anyone know when the last Railpace maps were done for the area between >altoona and pittsburgh and or altoona and harrisburg? I have one in the >series, but the date that it is to be continued is too dark to read. Any >help is appreciated. Here's what I have. I hope this helps. Railpace Railfan Guides: Apr. 1990: Conemaugh Division Jan. 1992: Pittsburgh Line - Huntingdon to Spruce Creek Feb. 1992: Pittsburgh Line - Spruce Creek to Altoona May 1992: Horseshoe Curve and Altoona Sept. 1995: West Slope - Conemaugh to South Fork Jan. 1996: West Slope - Summerhill to Cassandra Feb. 1996: West Slope - Lilly to Cresson and Gallitzen Sept. 1996: Upper Monongahela River Valley (Pittsburgh) Nov. 1997: Turtle Creek Valley (Pittsburgh) Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!