Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 01:33:09 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Placing purchased pics on a web site. Content-Length: 857 A co-worker's husband is a big SPF and has lots of pictures, many of which he purchased from someone who sells reprints (of his own photographs, I assume) at train shows. I asked if I could scan some, & put them on a website for all to see. Would there be any copywrite problems in doing so? Does the seller retain all rights to the pictures? I'd think it would be ok, but what do I know? -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: narm@scsn.net (Nolan Armstrong -- Donnelly) Subject: SALE - Back issues of The Keystone Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 12:36:52 GMT Content-Length: 781 Please excuse this "sale" notice but this was the best forum for me to place this in. That said, I have for sale back issues of the following: Vol. 9, No.1 - 4 and Vol. 10, No.1 - 4 of the PRT&HS Keystone. The price is $35.00 per volume plus shipping. All magazines are in "as new" condition. Please respond via e-mail to: narm@scsn.net Regards, Nolan Armstrong ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:54:33 EST Subject: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Content-Length: 604 According to the new book "Railroads of Indiana" the PRR operated a Chicago- Miami Vista Dome Sleeper in the 1950s. Does anyone have any information on the car? Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:35:07 -0600 (CST) From: dsdawdy@mcs.com (Daniel S. Dawdy) Subject: Re: Placing purchased pics on a web site. Content-Length: 1726 >A co-worker's husband is a big SPF and has lots of pictures, many of >which he purchased from someone who sells reprints (of his own >photographs, I assume) at train shows. I asked if I could scan some, & >put them on a website for all to see. Would there be any copywrite >problems in doing so? Does the seller retain all rights to the >pictures? I'd think it would be ok, but what do I know? Hi: In most cases, yes, the seller retains the copyrights to the work as they hold the original negative/slide. If you were to buy a collection of originals, you may then have the rights but most always give credit to the original photographer. In your case, I would ask the original photographer. My guess would be no, because he make his living selling these images. You placing them on the web for free may, in his eyes, cut down on sales. I had some images which I posted to the Internet, show up on a shareware CD ROM. This was before the Web. I found out and did sue the company. I learned a lot about copyright laws with that one :-) If there is an interest, I'll post more. Dan - Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing 319 N. Naperville Road, Suite 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60490 Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 630.960.3046 - dsdawdy@mcs.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: PRRTHS Cyber Chapter: Status Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:38:55 -0500 Content-Length: 4169 Your Loss, But you probably like the B&O too ! :-( ---------- > From: Michael DiMaio > To: bejm@eeg.ccf.org; Carl K Vogel > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: PRRTHS Cyber Chapter: Status > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 5:45 PM > > My vote is to keep PRR talk apart from Penn Tech!! I never did like > the keystone. BTW, I am wearing as asbestos suit so flame away at > me!! :-) > > > > To: bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:10:03 -0500 > > Subject: Re: PRRTHS Cyber Chapter: Status > > From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) > > > Mark: > > > > I am not a member of any PRRTHS chapter. In fact, until I joined PRR-Talk > > and this thread came up, I did not know they existed!! > > > > I have never seen the "Keystone". > > > > Oh....get those flame guns out!! > > > > It might be an interesting combination...PRR talk and PRRTHS. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carl K.Vogel > > Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer > > Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > > > > On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 0:54:35 EST Mark D Bej writes: > > > > > >Guys: > > >Here's what I have so far. > > > > > >20 PRRTHS Members in support of Cyber Chapter > > > Bartlett, Bej, Britton, Brooks, Copeland, Friendlein, Freshwater, > > >Helms, > > > Keel, Knepper, Laird, Leary, McGee, Minton, Morgan, Mummert, > > > Ross, Schlund, Siller, VogelR, Vondruska > > > > > >7 PRRTHS Nonmembers in support of Cyber Chapter > > > Dugas, Futch, Poortinga, Rosenbauer, Smith, Wangen, Whitehouse > > > > > >4 Unknown status in support of Cyber Chapter > > > McCall, Schoenberb, Shickler, VogelC > > > > > >Total potential members: 31 > > > > > >------ > > >INCOMPLETE INFO ON: > > >Knepper (address) > > >McCall, Schoenberg, Shickler (address, PRRTHS membership status) > > >VogelC (PRRTHS membership status) > > >------ > > > > > >This may be my impression only, but there seems to be a large number > > >of > > >Cyber Chapter supporters who are "far" from the "traditional" > > >strongholds > > >of the PRRTHS. E.g., only 4 from Pa., 4 from Ohio. > > > > > >I sure think we have enough people for a chapter. We may even beat > > >out > > >some of the older ones. > > > > > >-- > > >Mark D. Bej > > >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Desparately seeking sponsorship! Please contact jerry@dsop.com to help > > > > > >save this list and "Keystone Crossings". Thanks. > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > > >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Desparately seeking sponsorship! Please contact jerry@dsop.com to help > > save this list and "Keystone Crossings". Thanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 09:36:23 -0800 From: Claus Schlund Subject: Re: PRRTHS Cyber Chapter: Status Content-Length: 4476 Michael: You never did like the "Keystone"? Wow, I've never met anyone interested in PRR before who looked at an issue and did *not* like it! What exactly did you not like about it? By the way, magazine titles are usually capitalized, and what exactly is "Penn Tech" ? Are you refering to the PRRT&HS??? I think the *cyber chapter* would be missing a major boat by *not* associating itself with the PRRT&HS. As to *PRR-Talk*, I don't think keeping it "apart from Penn Tech" is really what is at issue here... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA Michael DiMaio wrote: > > My vote is to keep PRR talk apart from Penn Tech!! I never did like > the keystone. BTW, I am wearing as asbestos suit so flame away at > me!! :-) > > > To: bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:10:03 -0500 > > Subject: Re: PRRTHS Cyber Chapter: Status > > From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) > > > Mark: > > > > I am not a member of any PRRTHS chapter. In fact, until I joined PRR-Talk > > and this thread came up, I did not know they existed!! > > > > I have never seen the "Keystone". > > > > Oh....get those flame guns out!! > > > > It might be an interesting combination...PRR talk and PRRTHS. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carl K.Vogel > > Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer > > Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > > > > On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 0:54:35 EST Mark D Bej writes: > > > > > >Guys: > > >Here's what I have so far. > > > > > >20 PRRTHS Members in support of Cyber Chapter > > > Bartlett, Bej, Britton, Brooks, Copeland, Friendlein, Freshwater, > > >Helms, > > > Keel, Knepper, Laird, Leary, McGee, Minton, Morgan, Mummert, > > > Ross, Schlund, Siller, VogelR, Vondruska > > > > > >7 PRRTHS Nonmembers in support of Cyber Chapter > > > Dugas, Futch, Poortinga, Rosenbauer, Smith, Wangen, Whitehouse > > > > > >4 Unknown status in support of Cyber Chapter > > > McCall, Schoenberb, Shickler, VogelC > > > > > >Total potential members: 31 > > > > > >------ > > >INCOMPLETE INFO ON: > > >Knepper (address) > > >McCall, Schoenberg, Shickler (address, PRRTHS membership status) > > >VogelC (PRRTHS membership status) > > >------ > > > > > >This may be my impression only, but there seems to be a large number > > >of > > >Cyber Chapter supporters who are "far" from the "traditional" > > >strongholds > > >of the PRRTHS. E.g., only 4 from Pa., 4 from Ohio. > > > > > >I sure think we have enough people for a chapter. We may even beat > > >out > > >some of the older ones. > > > > > >-- > > >Mark D. Bej > > >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Desparately seeking sponsorship! Please contact jerry@dsop.com to help > > > > > >save this list and "Keystone Crossings". Thanks. > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > > >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Desparately seeking sponsorship! Please contact jerry@dsop.com to help > > save this list and "Keystone Crossings". Thanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: N-Scale Cabin Cars Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:00:27 -0000 Content-Length: 1669 I'd like to hear from anyone on the list who has modeled PRR cabin cars in N-scale... Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? (Gosh, being in the minority modeling scale makes me feel almost like a Lines West advocate on PRR-Talk, geesh! J/K!) Seriously though, I know Fine N Scale is supposed to come out with a model sometime, but until that happens, what are my options... Being a poor grad student, brass models are not going to happen. In case you're interested, I model a near-decrepit subsidiary of the PRR in the mid-fifties (the B&E) with a bit of a twist. The B&E ran from the Chesapeake Bay (where it had steamer connections with Baltimore) to Ocean City, Maryland, via Easton, Salisbury, and Berlin. Always a marginal operation, the B&E was kept alive by agricultural traffic and passenger revenue to the beach. Unfortunately, the real B&E had its bridge to Ocean City destroyed by a hurricane in 1933, and it was never rebuilt. Hence without the passenger traffic generated by the resort, the line was abandoned piecemeal over the next few decades. I model it as if that bridge had been rebuilt, and the line was still struggling along in the Fifties. Thanks for any input! Jim Hudson wjhudson@erols.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:22:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Bowser T-1? Content-Length: 791 On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Jerry_Britton wrote: > Did the new Bowser T-1 ever get released? I haven't seen info anywhere. > Last I heard, it was supposed to be shipping by last fall. Saw a "proof" > of the boiler last winter. I saw an old one built on a shelf in a hobby shop 2 days ago, next to the other Bowser steamers. It claimed the T-1 would be out this spring. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:25:21 EST Subject: Re: Some more questions Content-Length: 2916 In a message dated 97-12-31 13:31:20 EST, you write: << Are the rails still in place at Madison? Isn't Indiana a good place to check out railroads >> Erie, Well, you ould call the rails still in place but they're in very poor condition. The last time the track was used south of the three way switch the also serves the state hospital and plastic factory was in 1993 when the Kentuckiana power plant at the bottom needed a shipment of new generator rotors. The five of us started at the bridgge taking West Main Street (US 421) over the incline, walked to the City of Madison Port Authority office in a restored caboose next to the tracks just north of the three-way switch and back. The five of use, Larry & Phyllis Morgan, Todd and Lisa Horton and myself proved ourselves to be true SPFs, we walked through freshly fallen snow. We found numerous washouts and rockfalls, including the remants of a dhunck of rock the size of a small auto that had landed atop the tracks (we saw a picture of this rock at the CMPA office. A very courteous Port Authorityemployee answered our questions and let use look at the CMPA photo album. They have three locomotives including a very noticable green and organge "Paducha" Geep 10. She said the city of Madison is serious about keeping the line open from the CSX at North Vernon to Madison, adding the availability of rail transportation was the deciding factor in a company's recent decision to move its operations to Madison. There has been fairly recent feasibility study on tourist operations on the Hill. Cost of maintenance is prhibitive because of constant wshouts and rock falls. And there's a lack of secenic Scenery. Once you're on top, you're on a relatively level plateau. The Jeffersonville, Madison & Indy Louisville main, now the Louisville & ndiana with its Keystone herald with an interwined L&I about forty mile west has better scenery. I really didn't know what to expect.Unless you're looking for it, it's hard to tell the line is there.It's magnificent, walking up a 200-foot fill to a 150-foot cut, all dug with hand drills, sledge hammers, black powder and moved by teams and agons that hauled 500,000 tons of rock. Modeling the Madison Hill would be an interesting project for PRRM?O. It'd be about 80 feet long and five feet high in HO, 20' long and 2.5' high in N.. And it'd be a raare chance to use the P2K Pennsy SD9s in the only prototypical application. I was impressed. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: Layout design software: new Q Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:08:11 -0500 Content-Length: 2393 Hi Derrick, Haven't used it, but there is another program out there......(3rd Planlt) by El Dorado Software......(http:\\www.eldoradosoft.com) they have a down loadable program that mybe of some intrest to you...... Good Luck Bill Knepper ---------- > From: Derrick J Brashear > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: Layout design software: new Q > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 5:39 PM > > On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Mark D Bej wrote: > > > > > OK, guys. 4-5 responders love CADrail. Yes, I'd previously seen the Atlas > > program in hobby stores, but I know Atlas, Atlas is a good friend of mine, > > and I expected Atlas to allow you to do things only with Atlas > > SnapPiecesParts, nothing more. No surprise. Typical Atlas. The Micro$oft > > of the model train world. > > I haven't yet needed to upgrade my Atlas RS's to new, more expensive > versions with newer, most annoying bugs. Not really a true/fair/accurate > comparison. You malign Atlas and/or make Bill come out smelling much nicer > than he really does. > > Of course, Right Track Software was initially designed to do just what you > say it does, so I'm not surprised. > > ObPRR: finally figured out last night where the street leading down to the > passenger station (which was) at Bellevue, just west of Pittsburgh on the > north side of the Ohio River came out. Of course, it turns out it's > blocked with a pile of dirt, and I wasn't walking down in the snow, in the > dark. Some other day..... > > -D > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRSL/NYLB From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 17:12:54 EST Content-Length: 1334 The NYLB is now NJT's North Jersey Coast Line ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 >> >> >>I'm also curious about what operations, if any, are left over the old >New York & Long Branch, but that's the other end of the state. I've >been reading some books and seeing all the neat operations in NJ back >in the 60's and 70's, and part of the reason for this trip is to try >to find out what, if any, of all of that is left. (If that makes any >sense! :) >> >>Thanx, >>-Jer >> >>-- >>Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle >>blowin' steam >>mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday >>http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come >anymore >>Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron >Horses" >> ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 16:44:20 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Content-Length: 944 At 09:54 AM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote: >According to the new book "Railroads of Indiana" the PRR operated a Chicago- >Miami Vista Dome Sleeper in the 1950s. Does anyone have any information on the >car? > >Harold McGee >Gainesville, FL > The car was a NP sleeper - during the winter months, NP leased their dome sleepers tp PRR and IC for Florida Trains. They were Budd, vista domes, with the flat sides, rather thanm fluted. They retained their NP paint in SouthWind service. If you want more info, let me know... Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:58:35 -0500 From: "Larry P. Morgan" Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Content-Length: 1965 W. Jim Hudson wrote: > > I'd like to hear from anyone on the list who has modeled PRR cabin > cars in > N-scale... Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? (Gosh, > being in > the minority modeling scale makes me feel almost like a Lines West > advocate > on PRR-Talk, geesh! J/K!) > > Seriously though, I know Fine N Scale is supposed to come out with a > model > sometime, but until that happens, what are my options... Being a poor > grad > student, brass models are not going to happen. > > In case you're interested, I model a near-decrepit subsidiary of the > PRR in > the mid-fifties (the B&E) with a bit of a twist. The B&E ran from the > Chesapeake Bay (where it had steamer connections with Baltimore) to > Ocean > City, Maryland, via Easton, Salisbury, and Berlin. Always a marginal > operation, the B&E was kept alive by agricultural traffic and > passenger > revenue to the beach. Unfortunately, the real B&E had its bridge to > Ocean > City destroyed by a hurricane in 1933, and it was never rebuilt. > Hence > without the passenger traffic generated by the resort, the line was > abandoned piecemeal over the next few decades. I model it as if that > bridge > had been rebuilt, and the line was still struggling along in the > Fifties. > > Thanks for any input! > Jim Hudson > wjhudson@erols.com My wife Phyllis is a serious Pennsy fan and N scaler. She is sticking to MicroTrains for now. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:02:02 -0500 From: Brian Brooks Subject: Re: Accurail (was Re: Accurail is a Sponsor / Funding Update) Content-Length: 1600 At 04:23 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >You will see a banner ad for Accurail on "Keystone Crossings". They are >underwriting 1/3 of our excess operating costs for three months ($20 per >month). >- ---------- >In response to Accurail's sponsorship, I will offer some kind comments on their >product line. They make a 40' box car with 4-3-1 ends and a diagonal panel >roof. If you kitbash the body to add 7 or 8 foot doors (it comes with 6' >doors), you have a very reasonable PRR X43. The PRR had 6000 x43's. > >regards >Andy Miller Andy is right on here! I've done an X43b starting with an undecorated Accurail kit (3200) and doors leftover from a C&BT kit. I see that Accurail now has 7' Superior panel doors available (part 0114) that would be correct for this subclass. Watch the kit painted and lettered for the PRR (3204). This is lettered as an X43a (complete with ACF builder's insignia), but has a 6' Youngstown door (should be 7') and 10 panel riveted sides (instead of the prototype's 12 panel welded). However, it may be close enough for some as it does make a good impression. Thanks to Accurail for helping keep things on line. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:28:55 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Webpage & request Content-Length: 805 I have started a webpage with railroad links at: http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/railroad.html And I have an observation and request. The observation is that I have found quite a few pages for historical societies that should be able to be used as an example of what can be done for the PRRT&HS. My request is to forward me your comments, additions and corrections. Thanks, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "N Campbell" Subject: Re: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:57:14 -0500 Content-Length: 1413 Harold That car was a Northen Pacific car which ran on the Southwind during the winter mouths.I got this info from the book To Flordia by Streamliner by Joe Welsh. Travel by Rail Neil Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Hal6963 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 5:45 PM Subject: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper >According to the new book "Railroads of Indiana" the PRR operated a Chicago- >Miami Vista Dome Sleeper in the 1950s. Does anyone have any information on the >car? > >Harold McGee >Gainesville, FL > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:21:29 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: X-26 Content-Length: 726 Hello all... Don't forget Accurail makes a kit for the USRA derived X-26 boxcar... I have one of them and it is nice...you would have to weather it a lot for fifties use as they were getting old by then but the PRR still had a lot of them then.... H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:26:45 -0600 (CST) From: dsdawdy@mcs.com (Daniel S. Dawdy) Subject: Re: Webpage & request Content-Length: 1406 >I have started a webpage with railroad links at: >http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/railroad.html > >And I have an observation and request. The observation is that I have >found quite a few pages for historical societies that should be able to be >used as an example of what can be done for the PRRT&HS. My request is to >forward me your comments, additions and corrections. It looks good, although your image does not work. I guess my first question is why another list of links? The NMRA / CWRR lists over 2400 sites and checks them monthly. There is also a master historical society list at: http://www.rrhistorical.com/rrpro/database.html It just seems that a lot of people are trying to re invent the wheel, nothing wrong with that, if they all have the time. Dan - Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing 319 N. Naperville Road, Suite 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60490 Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 630.960.3046 - dsdawdy@mcs.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:39:21 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Content-Length: 3299 Jim, Gee, talk about a project that I am just finishing up. (This of course means the Fine N Scale cabin cars will be out in a matter of days.) I started with the LifeLike NE caboose to replicate the N5B. I used the end pieces from Gold Medal Models set 160-18 (Model Power Bay Window Cabosse) and the freight and Industrial Ladder sets to replace all that molded on plastic stuff on the car ends. Gold Medal also makes a set of antenna parts for the TrainPhone (don't remember the number and one is not sitting up here at the computer.) I still have to run the 0.008 wire through the mounts. I opened up the twin windows on each end to make one large window and filled in about a scale foot and a half at the car center end of the resulting gap to get a window closer to scale. I scrounged decals for the cars out of the MicroScale 60-9xx set (PRR Merchandise Service Box cars). They aren't perfect; the cupola is not offset 12 1/2 inches like the N5. They aren't contest quality; but I think they are going to survive scrutiny according to the N-Scale 3 foot rule. When the Fine N Scale car finally comes out, they will get relegated to a cabin car track in the background. But, they will look closer to a PRR cabin car than those old Atlas Santa Fe prototype caboose or the Model Power bay window caboose, both painted PRR, that I picked up before I knew any better. I'll have at least one running this weekend at Chantilly, VA on the NVNTRAK set-up at the Greenburg show. Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD W. Jim Hudson wrote: > > I'd like to hear from anyone on the list who has modeled PRR cabin cars in > N-scale... Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? (Gosh, being in > the minority modeling scale makes me feel almost like a Lines West advocate > on PRR-Talk, geesh! J/K!) > > Seriously though, I know Fine N Scale is supposed to come out with a model > sometime, but until that happens, what are my options... Being a poor grad > student, brass models are not going to happen. > > In case you're interested, I model a near-decrepit subsidiary of the PRR in > the mid-fifties (the B&E) with a bit of a twist. The B&E ran from the > Chesapeake Bay (where it had steamer connections with Baltimore) to Ocean > City, Maryland, via Easton, Salisbury, and Berlin. Always a marginal > operation, the B&E was kept alive by agricultural traffic and passenger > revenue to the beach. Unfortunately, the real B&E had its bridge to Ocean > City destroyed by a hurricane in 1933, and it was never rebuilt. Hence > without the passenger traffic generated by the resort, the line was > abandoned piecemeal over the next few decades. I model it as if that bridge > had been rebuilt, and the line was still struggling along in the Fifties. > > Thanks for any input! > Jim Hudson > wjhudson@erols.com > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:23:50 EST Subject: Signaling help Content-Length: 957 Hi y'all, I am looking for help designing a signal system on my home layout. I am well underway building the "Middle & Pittsburgh Division" by John Armstrong (20 Cuntom Designed Track Plans-page 51) in HO. I do not understand signaling and would like to install a reasonable system. I would like recommendations on 1. Locations, 2. Types, 3. Manufacturers, and 4. wireing. If there is any interest out there, please inform me of availability and $ required. PRR FOREVER, Jerry ARRJERRY@AOL.COM ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:22:11 -0800 From: Sarah Edwards Subject: Re: Webpage & request Content-Length: 1345 Bob, Looks good, quite a bit of stuff I hadn't seen. Doug Edwards Bob Webber wrote: > > I have started a webpage with railroad links at: > http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/railroad.html > > And I have an observation and request. The observation is that I have > found quite a few pages for historical societies that should be able to be > used as an example of what can be done for the PRRT&HS. My request is to > forward me your comments, additions and corrections. > > Thanks, Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:22:13 EST Subject: PRR Calenders Content-Length: 757 Hi Y'all, I'm looking for PRR Calenders by Weekend Chief and Cedco. I'm looking for: Cedco Publishing - Any prior to 1996 Weekend Chief Publisging - !995, 1996, Any prior to 1990 If anyone has these for sale, please E-mail $ and condition. PRR forever - Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 7:20:15 EST From: Subject: Re: Bowser T-1? Content-Length: 6682 Dito. I just spoke with the folks at Bowser 2 days ago and they claimed the same. It is still being "worked" and sould be out in the Spring. They gave no price range either. Kris Kollar ------------- Original Text From: Derrick J Brashear , on 1/1/98 1:22 PM: On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Jerry_Britton wrote: > Did the new Bowser T-1 ever get released? I haven't seen info anywhere. > Last I heard, it was supposed to be shipping by last fall. Saw a "proof" > of the boiler last winter. I saw an old one built on a shelf in a hobby shop 2 days ago, next to the other Bowser steamers. It claimed the T-1 would be out this spring. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Subject: RE: Thanks -- Modeling Update -Reply From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 09:54:29 -0500 Content-Length: 1610 Bob, I did an evaluation some time ago on this list. A summary of it is avaialable on Mark Bej's PRR web page at: http://ccfadm.eeg.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Model/pass_cars.htm l In essense, the body is correct, but you have to change either the trucks or the roof (or both) to obtain a correct car. BTW I've kit bashed that car into the most common BM70m by using Grant Line Station windows! regards, Andy Miller Sunshine Models has the wood and 1947 steel REA reefers which would be appropriate as well. Craft kits, but very nice when built. Be sure you order their truck kit for the steel reefer as it is correct. I have never seen any evaluations of the differences between the Rivarossi mail-baggage and the Pennsy versions. Superficially they are similar. Bob Zoeller - ------------------------------------------------------------ Desparately seeking sponsorship! Please contact jerry@dsop.com to help save this list and "Keystone Crossings". Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 10:14:30 -0500 Content-Length: 6936 A few comments on Drew's excellent rundown on PRR Northern doings. - - Bethlehem Car Works has a kit for B'nai B'rith/Defender. A lenghthy article on these cars (B'NAI B'RITH, DEFENDER, MATCHLESS, GUARDIAN, ENTERPRISE, and COURAGOUS) appeared in the Keystone some years ago. GUARDIAN still exists on a tourist railroad on Cape Cod. COURAGOUS was the odd car in the group, having end windows AT THE VESTIBULE END, for use as an observation car! - - The new Bachmann Pullman is a 10 sec, 1 dr, 2 br car. Those of us with loose morals might consider it a stand in for the 10 sec 3 dbr cars listed. - - Did the Dominion/Souther/Northern Express really run 10 sec 5 dbr cars? I've never heard of this configuration, although the Pullman Co built lots of small batches of strange confirurations (witness the new Bachmann car!!). Perhaps they were actually one of the following: 10 ROOMETTE, 5 dbr (very common prewar steamlined sleeper. PRR had many and assigned them to lesser runs such as these after the war. Sides are available from USP and others) 10 section, 3 dbr - listed elsewhere 8 section, 5 dbr - a CLOVER series rebuild, very common - no kit available :-( regards Andy Miller - --------- Greetings to Jerry and the group, The Dominion Express 574/575 provided service between Buffalo/Toronto and Washington via Harrisburg, York and Baltimore. Sleeper service was also provided to/from Philly via a Harrisburg connection to/from trains 615/36. Both the northbound and southbound were called the Dominion Express The Northern/Southern Express 581/580 provided service between Erie and Washington via Harrisburg, York and Baltimore. Sleeper service to/from NYC was provided by Harrisburg connections to trains 30 and 1. Both of these trains were overnight pullman/coach trains. They ran about 1/2 hour apart both northbound and southbound. 581 left Harrisburg at 11 PM. 575 left at 11:20 PM. 580 arrived at Harrisburg at 4:40 AM. 574 got there at 4:55 AM. These times are from PRR 1951 Susquehanna Division timetable. By General Order 311 Effective April 25, 1954, trains 580/581 were combined between Emporium and Washington with trains 574/575. At Emporium they split/combined. The Dominion Express (575/574) ran to/from Buffalo. The Northern/Southern Express 581/580) ran to/from Erie. Passenger service survived between Erie and Emporium (trains 580/581) until March 27, 1965 (See page 54 of Yanosey's _Pennsy Diesel Years 3_). Trains 574/575 were discontinued sometime between 1960 and 1965. According to April 1956 _Official guide_, the Dominion/Northern Express (575) left Washington at 7:05 PM. It hit York at 9:22 PM and Harrisburg at 10:50 PM By 3:00 AM it arrived at Renovo. It made Emporium by 4:04. About 30 minutes were allocated for switching the train. The Dominion, Train 575, continued on to Buffalo. The Northern Express originating as train 581 at Emporium. The Northern Express reached Erie at 10:20 AM. The Southern Express (580) left Erie at 6:15 PM. It made Emporium by 11:30 PM. The Dominion Express (574)left Buffalo at 4:35 PM and made Emporium at 11:38 AM. Again about 30 minutes are allowed for switching. Train 574, including the former train 580, leaves Emporium at 12:08 AM. It makes Renovo by 1:30 AM, Harrisburg at 5:13 AM and leaves at 5:25 AM for york. It hits York at 6:15 AM and Washington at 8:35 AM. The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the following as the typical make up of the trains. 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 NYC - Emporium Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie Coaches Washington - Buffalo to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 574/580 Dominion/Southern Express Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg Coaches Buffalo - Washington Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 from 580 Erie - Harrisburg According to a _Keystone_ article (sorry date unknown) Bankers Club and Traffic Club were assigned to 574/575 for a time in 1954. There were also daylight coach trains between Buffalo and Washington. Train 571 was known as the Buffalo Day Express and train 570 the Washington Express. According to the April 1956 _Official Guide_ 571 leaves Washington at 8:10 AM. It hit York at 10:37 AM and arrived at Harrisburg at 11:20 AM. It left Harrisburg at 11:42 AM and finally reached Buffalo at 8:00 PM. Its counterpart, train 570 left Buffalo at 8:30 AM, hitting Harrisburg at 4:55 PM. It left Harrisburg at 5:10 PM arriving at York at 5:49 PM and Washington at 8:15 PM. Both trains had connecting service to/from Philly and NYC at Harrisburg. The _Official Guide_ lists their consists as followes: 571 Buffalo Day Express Parlor Cafe Car Washington - Buffalo Coaches Washington - Buffalo (Reclining Seats) NYC - Buffalo (reclining Seats) 570 Washington Express Parlor Cafe Car Buffalo - Washington Coaches Buffalo - Washington (Reclining Seats) Buffalo - Philly (Reclining Seats) According to a _Keystone_ article (sorry date unknown) B'nai B'rith was assigned to 570/571 during 1948. Defender was assigned to 570/571 in the late 50s. Acording to the Summer 94 issue of the _Keystone_, 570/571 was discontinued in 1969. I hope my rather lenthy reply was of some help. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA - ------------------------------------------------------------ Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:56:28 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1793 On 1 Jan, "Larry P. Morgan" wrote: > W. Jim Hudson wrote: > > Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? There aren't many of us, but count me in! > > Seriously though, I know Fine N Scale is supposed to come out with a model > > sometime, but until that happens, what are my options... Being a poor grad > > student, brass models are not going to happen. In the interim, keep rewarding Dick Billings by buying his X31 and X32 boxcars. To relieve the painting tedium, N&W and NP both ran some of these cars (large N&W photos of these cars at http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/, search for B1, B-1, B3, and B-3). > My wife Phyllis is a serious Pennsy fan and N scaler. She is sticking > to MicroTrains for now. Yeah, I've got one of those, but that MT caboose is nowhere hear any PRR prototype, even though it's lettered as an N6B. Wrong windows, wrong placement of the wrong cupola. The paint job is adequate, but it got warped to fit the model's window arrangement. I know of no accurate plastic N Scale PRR cabin car models, until Fine N Scale's N5C come out. Dennis Rockwell SPF dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:17:39 EST Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Content-Length: 963 In a message dated 98-01-01 18:49:15 EST, you write: << I'd like to hear from anyone on the list who has modeled PRR cabin cars in N-scale... Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? (Gosh, being in the minority modeling scale makes me feel almost like a Lines West advocate on PRR-Talk, geesh! J/K!) >> There are some N guagers on PRR-Talk but I forget who they are. Personnally my modeling tastes are quite mainstream in HO but I do know that Gloor Craft makes N6b kits in N scale. Check Gloor Craft on www/walthers.com. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 14:19:54 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1425 On 2 Jan, LINESWEST wrote: > There are some N guagers on PRR-Talk but I forget who they are. Personnally my > modeling tastes are quite mainstream in HO but I do know that Gloor Craft > makes N6b kits in N scale. Check Gloor Craft on www/walthers.com. Dontcha just love this list? Upon reading Tom's note above, I called up my local dealer to order one, and he informed me that they are now back in production after a hiatus, and that two had just arrived. One of them now has my name on it. I'll publish a construction report here when I get a couple more round tuits. Since it's Gloor-Craft, I expect it to have dozens of tiny pieces, all just waiting for cement fingerprints, maybe even scale lumber for the siding! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Looking for 1954 Public Timetable Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:22:30 -0600 Content-Length: 1285 Jerry Britton wrote: "Does anyone have a public timetable of east-west passenger trains from 1954? Prefer April timeframe. I'd appreciate a photocopy in its entirety, or the chance to borrow it to copy or scan myself. Need it for modeling purposes. Thanks." Chuck Blardone offers photocopies of various consist books and letters. A large SASE gets you a list and prices. Address is: Mr. Chuck Blardone 2886 Wimbledon Lane Lancaster, PA 17601-1454 Run $10-20 depending on size -- not too unreasonable considering value and costs of reproducing, etc. Bought a 1945 or 1946 and a 1951. The 1945/6 was interesting because it contains both an unmarked and a marked-up revision --the marked up revision had the cancellations of short-run Pullmans and other reassignments due to the War Order to get the troops home and demobilized. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Placing purchased pics on a web site. (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:39:26 EST Content-Length: 2120 > >A co-worker's husband is a big SPF and has lots of pictures, many of > >which he purchased from someone who sells reprints (of his own > >photographs, I assume) at train shows. I asked if I could scan some, & > >put them on a website for all to see. Would there be any copywrite > >problems in doing so? Does the seller retain all rights to the > >pictures? I'd think it would be ok, but what do I know? > I had some images which I posted to the Internet, show up on a shareware CD > ROM. This was before the Web. I found out and did sue the company. I learned > a lot about copyright laws with that one :-) Dan et al., I think the reason you got away with your suit is that you _asserted_ your implied copyright. My understanding (I'm not a lawyer, but I'm married to one) is that the copyright exists by the Common Law, but that it can be _lost_ if you don't demonstrate that you are _maintaining_ that copyright. Copies are tricky. If you sell a copy of a picture without restrictions stated in advance (like a (C)1997 on the slide or print, e.g.), then you would I think have only Common Law recourse as described above - i.e., you have to maintain vigilence and _you_ have to sue. If you _state_ your copyright explicitly, life is much simpler. As an example, people have been sued for using the text of a letter they received. It's been consistently held that receipt of a letter means that that letter is your property, to do with as you see fit. I would think that purchased property is similar. Now, the decent, moral, honest thing to do is _always_ to credit properly. -- Mark D. "I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on prr-talk" Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Modeling ideas (was: Madison Hill) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:42:55 EST Content-Length: 856 > Modeling the Madison Hill > would be an interesting project for PRRM?O. It'd be about 80 feet long and > five feet high in HO, 20' long and 2.5' high in N.. And it'd be a raare chance > to use the P2K Pennsy SD9s in the only prototypical application. > Tom V. Here's my modular pike dream idea: ZOO interlocking. To exact scale. Probably best done in N-scale. Main lines simply loop around to another incoming track. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: [rrdiana] Railroad Books for sale - Revised (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:56:05 EST Content-Length: 937 I don't know this guy, > From: "_RRANA_Lee Jenkins" > Lee S. Jenkins > 4365 Eastwicke Blvd. > Stow, Ohio 44224 > (330) 677-5405 and I'm not endorsing anything. But. I note the following: > ON THE MAIN LINE - ALEXANDERC CMLXXI, 310 PAGES, 367 photos and = > illustrations. Covers the PRR 19th Century. Many of Right-of-way, = > equipment, depots, trains, structures, etc $55 This is a MUST HAVE for all SPFs. I've got my copy already -- youz guyz snap up yours! -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Signaling help (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:04:40 EST Content-Length: 2104 > I do not understand signaling and would like to install a reasonable system. > > I would like recommendations on > 1. Locations, 2. Types, 3. Manufacturers, and 4. wireing. > > If there is any interest out there, please inform me of availability and $ > required. > > PRR FOREVER, Jerry > ARRJERRY@AOL.COM Jerry, I can help you with signaling concepts, signal placement (design), etc. This is one of my own particular interests. As credentials, I have passed a NORAC rules exam given by a Conrail rules examiner and have the stamp to prove it. I can help some with models of signals available on the market. I cannot help at all with circuits available on the market, as I've not evaluated these. I'd love for anyone with the knowledge/experience to write some stuff up, and I'll gladly host it as a web page. The big question is "what is reasonable". When I start building my layout in earnest, it will have a fully functional signal system, all signal aspects in their correct locations. But this may be overkill for you (probably is for most modelers). Do you want just the signal hardware, no operational signals? (cheap and simple) Do you want lit signals whose aspects don't change? (minimally more and easy) Do you want only the simplest changing aspects (Clear |, Approach /, and Stop -)? (now requires track detection circuits and signal control circuits, but signal control circuits would be cheap) Do you want the whole shebang? (expensive) For designing stuff, please respond to me by private email, send me a diagram of your layout, and I'll come up with a suggested signal layout. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:14:56 -0600 (CST) From: dsdawdy@mcs.com (Daniel S. Dawdy) Subject: Re: Placing purchased pics on a web site. (fwd) Content-Length: 1334 >My understanding (I'm not a lawyer, but I'm married to one) is that the >copyright exists by the Common Law, but that it can be _lost_ if you don't >demonstrate that you are _maintaining_ that copyright. The Copyright Act was amended by The Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, Pub. L. 100-568, effective March 1, 1989. For works published after that date, section 401 no longer requires that a work bear a notice of copyright. Similarly, section 405 was amended and does not apply to works published after March 1, 1989. Now, the copyright holder may have to show damages because of the infringement as I had to do. I guess my bottom line is, if I don't hold the original, I won't post it. Dan - Ribbon Rail Productions - World Wide Web Publishing 319 N. Naperville Road, Suite 348 Bolingbrook, IL 60490 Voice 630.969.7837 - Data 630.960.3046 - dsdawdy@mcs.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: PrrCyberChap Update III, Info Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:19:19 EST Content-Length: 1539 OK, guys, we're up to 35 PRRTHS-or-local members and 16 nonmembers for the for formation of a cyber chapter. Total 51 if I can still add after all that champagne. Now for the info. First off, fret ye not. The page of peoples' addresses is temporary, until we present this to PRRTHS national. Once the chapter is created, the page of addresses disappears. You'll note that, pursuant to a suggestion received, I've mangled the email addresses to prevent SPAMming. I think we should pursue chaptership first. Then we'll have to vote for officers. Then we can debate and decide on things like: 1) newsletter or no newsletter? 2) newsletter electronic or hardcopy? 3) PRRTHS-cyber web site or not? If so, where, how much, how to pay? 4) PRRTHS-cyber discussion list or not? Separate from PRR-Talk, or endorse PRR-Talk, or how? Payment in support of or not? Think about these issues. Each could/should be a committee that would go around, check out pricing, space, etc., and inform the membership at large with info and its recommendation. members would then vote. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Placing purchased pics on a web site. (fwd) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:24:38 EST Content-Length: 1564 > >My understanding (I'm not a lawyer, but I'm married to one) is that the > >copyright exists by the Common Law, but that it can be _lost_ if you don't > >demonstrate that you are _maintaining_ that copyright. > > The Copyright Act was amended by The Berne Convention > Implementation Act of 1988, Pub. L. 100-568, effective March 1, > 1989. For works published after that date, section 401 no longer > requires that a work bear a notice of copyright. Similarly, > section 405 was amended and does not apply to works published after > March 1, 1989. Yes, thanks, I had forgotten about this. But I am also reminded of my previous reason for being wary even of this law -- you have to prove 'publishing' date. Granted, you could demonstrate, e.g., that Conrail only purchased units in the 6200 series _after_ a given date which is later than 1989-3-1, etc. etc etc. Still better, IMHO, to stamp a (C) and a year on the thing. > Now, the copyright holder may have to show damages because of the > infringement as I had to do. To recover money, certainly. Just to stop the practice, I'm not certain. But regardless. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Modeled NCR Operations Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 18:22:08 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1101 If anyone is interested, I've got a working draft outlining the passenger and freight traffic I plan to model on my Northern Central Railway, representing the Baltimore to Harrisburg segment. Passenger traffic includes six named trains in each direction, plus numerous "Parkton Locals". Of the named trains, most actually bear multiple names. Thanks to those who provided timely feedback to make this all possible. Drew's extensive post was especially helpful. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Judge David Carey Subject: K-4s No. 5412 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:56:43 -0700 Content-Length: 684 I would appreciate receiving information, anecdotal or otherwise, about the history, assignments, modifications, ultimate disposition, and other interesting stuff about of K-4s No. 5412, last seen on the N.Y. & L.B. in the late 50's. Hope this isn't too arcane a request. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:03:11 -0500 From: "R. Vogel" Subject: Dispatching office walls Content-Length: 698 I'm at that stage in the construction of my model railroad room and a half to put up the walls. I was wondering whether there were any standard wall colors used in the dispatchers offices. Also, would beadboard be appropriate or smooth walls or some combination (wainscotting)? ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:27:01 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: N-Scale Cabin Cars Content-Length: 2583 Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > On 1 Jan, "Larry P. Morgan" wrote: > > > W. Jim Hudson wrote: > > > > Are there any other N-scaler, SPFs out there? > > There aren't many of us, but count me in! > > > > Seriously though, I know Fine N Scale is supposed to come out with a model > > > sometime, but until that happens, what are my options... Being a poor grad > > > student, brass models are not going to happen. > > In the interim, keep rewarding Dick Billings by buying his > X31 and X32 boxcars. To relieve the painting tedium, N&W > and NP both ran some of these cars (large N&W photos of > these cars at http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/, search > for B1, B-1, B3, and B-3). > > > My wife Phyllis is a serious Pennsy fan and N scaler. She is sticking > > to MicroTrains for now. > > Yeah, I've got one of those, but that MT caboose is nowhere > hear any PRR prototype, even though it's lettered as an N6B. > Wrong windows, wrong placement of the wrong cupola. The > paint job is adequate, but it got warped to fit the model's > window arrangement. > > I know of no accurate plastic N Scale PRR cabin car models, > until Fine N Scale's N5C come out. > > Dennis Rockwell SPF dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA > _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ > ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### > > I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Dennis (and list members): One of the ways to get manufacturers to maybe make what we want, regardless of scale, is to write and ask them. Send copies of drawings, photos,etc., to make their job easier, too. If MT doesn't make it, then ask them to. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:16:23 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Multiple Post Content-Length: 619 To the list: Seems my reply about writing to manufacturers about making N scale cabin cars got on the list more than once. Honest, I only sent one message. Please re-holster the flame guns. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:23:37 -0800 From: Claus Schlund Subject: PRR cabin cars in N scale Content-Length: 2761 Hi Jim & list members, The list members seem to have steered you in the right direction - the N scale Gloor Craft N6b was unavailable for a couple of years. It is now back in stock at Walthers, so your timing is excellent. The Gloor kit builds up into a center-cupola N6b. Most N6b cars were not of this design, instead they had the cupola off to one side. According to an article in an ancient edition of the Keystone, the cupola on the offset N6b cars was something like 6inches longer or shorter (I don't remember exactly which way it went.) In N scale, that is a tiny amount, so if you were to move the as-is cupola off center your model would still be pretty close and it would represent the more common prototype. Also, there were variations in window location which with some craftiness could be modeled as well. The PRR also had N6a cars, which were identical but had a different (wider) cupola design. The N6a appears to have been more common on lines west routes. Drawings appear in the Wayner Pennsy Car Plans book. One could probably replace the cupola with a scratchbuilt one for an N6a car. The PRR built N6a cars by lengthening four-wheeled bobber NB, NC, NE and NEa cabin cars. So naturally I'm planning to take one of the Gloor kits I have and travel backward in time - shorten it to represent one of these shorter cabins. Underframe will come from a Bachmann old-timer caboose. I believe there was an article on doing this kitbash in some MR back issue (don't remember which one right off, and I don't own the back issue, still trying to locate it). It was for HO, but since all the same "raw materials" are available in N it should work just as well in 1/160. You can equip your N6b with either cast-side-frame or archbar trucks from Micro Trains - the prototype had both. There was an article a few years back in N scale mag (I think it was written by a fellow named Buckley) who scratchbuilt a class ND cabin, so if you are inclined that would be yet another possibility. As a final note, not all brass cars are unaffordable. I bought a brass N5 for $80.00. Of course it depends a bit on the state of your wallet. The Fine N Scale car is supposed to be an N5C (when it finally comes out). Till later... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:39:09 EST Subject: Re: PRR cabin cars in N scale Content-Length: 1277 In a message dated 98-01-02 21:42:48 EST, cschlund@sfsu.edu writes: << The PRR built N6a cars by lengthening four-wheeled bobber NB, NC, NE and NEa cabin cars. So naturally I'm planning to take one of the Gloor kits I have and travel backward in time - shorten it to represent one of these shorter cabins....I believe there was an article on doing this kitbash in some MR back issue (don't remember which one right off, and I don't own the back issue, still trying to locate it). >> I don't remember the kitbash article, but drawings of the ND and NDa (with a pair of four-wheel trucks) were published in MR July 1952. NC drawings were in MR September 1960. NA drawings were in RMC October 1996. Hope this helps! By the way, I've built Gloorcraft's ND in O scale, NDa and N6b in HO, none in N. It's a fun kit, especially in O. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:19:21 -0800 From: Stan Feldman Subject: RAILPIX-RAILCARDS--SAFETY-POSTER-UPDATE . Content-Length: 1367 Hello all stations; A happy New Year to All ! New on the RailPix RailCards Page, at-- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html -A Conrail color me Rail Safety Poster to download or print. -A new AAR Ad, -A new Super Chief Ad -A 1962 Magna Carta For Transportation Ad from 1962 -A 1944 Rail Crossing Safety Poster -A New York and Boston Ad fron the late 1800,s. -See what Ronald Reagan had to say about Rail Travel in 1959. Please visit and Enjoy ! Stan -- *********************************************************** STAN'S RAILPIX-- Railroad Photo Gallery ! http://www.trainweb.com/railpix ****************************************************** Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it !! *********************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:26:02 EST Subject: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 577 I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes? Thanks Todd Horton ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Model Power Sharks Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 08:03:48 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1195 On 1/3/98 2:26 AM, CENTGA (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: >I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate >are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes? If I recall, from earlier discussions, they are not bad for RF-15/16. However, that means freight service, so they need repainted in DGLE. The passenger sharks were RF-20, and were longer to accomodate the generator. Passenger sharks, I think, are yet to be produced in non-brass. I've got two powered and two unpowered sharks awaiting the DGLE repaint. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: FS: Model Power Sharks Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:10:58 -0500 Content-Length: 578 Speaking of MP/Roco sharks, if anyone is looking for any A units, I have access to an AA Powered/Dummy set. Contact wgripp@prius.jnj.com via email if interested. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:51:35 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/03/98 Content-Length: 724 Although I enjoy browsing this info, I am not into modelling. It is frustrating that much of the info in these postings pertains only to model railroading, and would like to know if it is possible to receive only historical/prototype messages ? - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 10:40 03-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:59:32 EST Subject: Re: X-26 Content-Length: 1010 In a message dated 98-01-01 21:26:25 EST, bubbles@visi.net writes: << Don't forget Accurail makes a kit for the USRA derived X-26 boxcar... I have one of them and it is nice...you would have to weather it a lot for fifties use as they were getting old by then but the PRR still had a lot of them then.... >> Sorry. The Accurail car is a Canadian clone of the USRA and is very different from the PRR X26 USRA car or any other US roads USRA car. Just because they letter it for PRR doesn't make it so. For PRR X26 cars Tichy USRA kit is the closest kit available. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:39:16 -0500 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: Re: Modeling ideas Content-Length: 826 Mark said he was interested in a track plan based on Zoo Interocking. This goes way back, but Model Railroader once published a track plan based on Zoo Interlocking. This might be around 1960 plus or minus five years. As I recall it had a staging loop running around the room with tracks feeding into Zoo from all appropriate directions. If you haven't seen this, sounds like you need to! John Bobsin ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 13:59:18 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1179 On 12/31/97 7:02 PM, Drew R. McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: >According to April 1956 _Official guide_, ... Okay, what is the "Official Guide"? Is it the "Official Guide to the Railways" that I often see for sale on eBay? If so, I gather it is a compendium of all railroads equipment, routes, or some sort of thing. Was it passenger only? How often was it published? How does this compare to an "ORER" that I often see references to? What is that? I'll add these definitions to the Glossary FAQ on "KC" when I get them back. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Alco PA's on the NCR? Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 14:21:21 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1178 Does anyone know if Alco passenger PA units ever ran on the Northern Central Branch between Harrisburg and Baltimore? Gunnarson's book on the NCR doesn't show any. E's and Centipedes were plentiful (in addition to many K4's and the only two K5's). Coloroso's book on the Elmira Branch (which was synonymous with the northern part of the NCR) shows PA's in service there. Since I only model the "southern end" of the line, I don't know if I should be picking up a set of P2K PA's when they inevitably come out in PRR paint. Many thanks! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 11:08:51 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 2028 Jerry wrote: > > On 1/3/98 2:26 AM, CENTGA (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > >I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate > >are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes? > > If I recall, from earlier discussions, they are not bad for RF-15/16. > However, that means freight service, so they need repainted in DGLE. > > The passenger sharks were RF-20, and were longer to accomodate the > generator. > > Passenger sharks, I think, are yet to be produced in non-brass. > > I've got two powered and two unpowered sharks awaiting the DGLE repaint. > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Jerry, A friendly correction; the longer PRR passenger sharks were PRR class BP-20, not RF-20. Also, I recall about four or five years ago seeing a few ads in MR for plastic BP-20 A-units at about $275.00 each. Had I not just blown all my available loot on brass ones by Oriental about five months before, I would have ordered a couple. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:31:10 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Content-Length: 1761 > Okay, what is the "Official Guide"? > > Is it the "Official Guide to the Railways" that I often see for sale on eBay? Correct -- it is the Official Guide of the Railways, or, its full name is "The Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the United States, Puerto Rico, Canada, Mexico and Cuba" In its classic form, it's a list of all common-carrier railroads, along with their addresses, officers, interchange points, and passenger (and sometimes freight) schedules. It was issued monthly, and every small-town station had one on hand for reference in travel planning, and billing freight waybill, car-repair, and per-diem charges. Later it was split into freight and passenger versions. With the rapid proliferation of short line spin-offs, mergers, etc., it is often not completely up to date. ORER is the Official Railway Equipment Register, which is a listing of all freight cars, by railroad, with the capacities, weights, reporting marks and numbers, and any special modifications or equipment -- int he case of PRR, it also listed PRR freight-car classes. Beginning in 1943, a similar publication existed for passenger equipment, called the Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment. It did not list PRR classifications. Dan Cupper Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net Psalm 84:5 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 15:09:44 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Content-Length: 2214 Jerry wrote: > > Okay, what is the "Official Guide"? > > Is it the "Official Guide to the Railways" that I often see for sale on > eBay? Yes, the same. > > If so, I gather it is a compendium of all railroads equipment, routes, or > some sort of thing. Was it passenger only? How often was it published? > It was a collection of all the schedules as given in the railroads' public timetables, plus the timetable route maps, lists of the officers and management of the companies. The train makeup as far as passenger accomodations was also listed. If the railroad published any freight schedules in the public TT then these would generally be there also. The index of stations in the back of the book lists, by towns, all the railroads in that town, what stations used, if more than one, their distances from each other, and indicates freight-only towns. It is an extremely valuable reference itself. It was published monthly, used by ticket agents, travel agents, various and railroad offices. The railroads subscribed to large numbers of them and usually had official distribution lists whereby the old copies would be forwarded to locations/employees with lesser need for the latest issue. Needless to say, it became much thinner as passenger service declined. I doubt if it has been published since Amtrak began operation, but it may have lingered. I don't know. At times ocean line companies and airlines were included. > How does this compare to an "ORER" that I often see references to? What > is that? ORER is _The Official Railway Equipment Register_, giving physical specifications for freight cars and some passenger oriented cars. _The Official Register Of Passenger Train Equipment_ does the same for passenger cars. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 15:14:29 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Modeling ideas Content-Length: 1169 bobsin@nac.net wrote: > > Mark said he was interested in a track plan based > on Zoo Interocking. > > This goes way back, but Model Railroader once published > a track plan based on Zoo Interlocking. This might be around > 1960 plus or minus five years. As I recall it had a staging > loop running around the room with tracks feeding into Zoo from > all appropriate directions. If you haven't seen this, sounds > like you need to! > It was in the December, 1958, Model Railroader. It was an interesting plan for train running, but would be a huge project to put into modular form except as a dedicated, sectional design. (It would be a stretch to build it as a typical modular display with domino sections end-to-end). Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Castings Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:11:54 -0500 Content-Length: 1095 I wanted to let you all know, that on Page 7 in the FEB. issue of "Model Railroader", there is a spot in "New Products" for 'Imperial Hobby Productions'. In this is a photo, albeit small, of a couple of the castings we do for this company. The floor on the rear most pc. is actually seperate as well, but the photo doesn't show this. Just wanted to you to know, as I many of you have been probably wondering about the level of casting quality we may have. Would also like to say THANK YOU !! To Jerry and all the rest of you guys who have taken the time to drop me a line with suggestions, comments and general support ! Thanks, Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:00:11 EST Subject: Re: Alco PA's on the NCR? Content-Length: 898 In a message dated 98-01-03 14:35:02 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: << Does anyone know if Alco passenger PA units ever ran on the Northern Central Branch between Harrisburg and Baltimore? ... Caloroso's book on the Elmira Branch (which was synonymous with the northern part of the NCR) shows PA's in service there. >> Note that the PA units in Caloroso's book are shown in pusher service, after they were regeared. Passenger power on the Branch was primarily GP7. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:07:38 EST Subject: Re: Official Guide - Was: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Content-Length: 1339 I have an Official Railway Guide from November 1974 that lists Amtrak, Southern, Rio Grande, and Autotrain; as well as a number of Canadian and Mexican lines. Remember that those railroads initially declined the invitation to join Amtrak. I don't know how long after this date the Official Guide was published. John Keel In a message dated 98-01-03 15:14:53 EST, sbartlet@capecod.net writes: << "Official Guide to the Railways" ... was published monthly, used by ticket agents, travel agents, various and railroad offices. The railroads subscribed to large numbers of them and usually had official distribution lists whereby the old copies would be forwarded to locations/employees with lesser need for the latest issue. Needless to say, it became much thinner as passenger service declined. I doubt if it has been published since Amtrak began operation, but it may have lingered. I don't know. >> ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:24:32 EST Subject: Re: NG 150 years CDs was Re: What did Santa bring you? Content-Length: 1504 In a message dated 97-12-28 13:32:46 EST, Drew wrote: << Subj: NG 150 years CDs was Re: What did Santa bring you? Date: 97-12-28 13:32:46 EST Speaking of things that Santa may have brought you, did anyone get the National Geographic 150 years CDrom set? No I haven't gotten it, yet. The bursar here says we have to wait until we both get our next paychecks (This week!). Now from what I understand, the NG Society is selling the set for $180.00. They have it here at Sam's for $150.00. With my luck they'll be out of them by the the time I get over there to buy them. Thought the group might like to know about them and that Sam's has'em. Should I get them this week, will provide a report to the group, if no one else does first. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA >> CompUSA has them at 149.99; not going to buy until they include the "supplemental maps"; say hello to the bursar for me, you introduced at one of the PSU RR history conferences maybe six/seven years ago. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:22:15 -0600 From: Sample Subject: Moly-XL Powder Content-Length: 1003 Hi Gang Has anyone ever used Moly-XL moly powder for modeling purposes? I used it to change the color of the grils on my F7 looks pretty good. It also helps with sticky couples. If used on trucks it falls off trucks and leaves a dusting of the tracks that is much like real tracks. Finality found a number 76 drill bit at Train Source in Houston. I added to hand rails to my F7 on the noise of the cab that Walters didn't show. Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? Eric Sample janeric@InfoCom.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:32:12 -0600 From: Sample Subject: Moly-XL powder Content-Length: 1014 Hi Gang Has anyone ever used Moly-XL moly powder for modeling purposes? I used it to change the color of the grils on my F7 looks pretty good. It also helps with sticky couples. If used on trucks it falls off trucks and leaves a dusting of the tracks that is much like real tracks. Finally found a number 76 drill bit at Train Source in Houston. I added two hand rails to my F7 on the nose of the cab that Walters didn't show. Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door in the nose so that it will look like a PRR F7? Eric Sample janeric@InfoCom.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:54:41 -0600 From: Sample Subject: Bell on F7 Content-Length: 1384 Hi Gang Does anyone know where the bell was located on the F7? Also interested in the horn mounting. Athearn F7 engine has two horns. While Pennsy II doesn't show this clearly would one be faceing to the rear? Or did the F7 operate in ABA and AA lash ups so that horns faced rear on one engine and forward on the other? Extra, just found a North American Dispatch, Pluto Water wood side refrigerator car #5210 from Athearn. Of all places in Houston Texas. Have any of the Lines West guys ever checked out French Lick Springs Hotel in French Lick, Indiana? Home of Larry Bird. While the mainline at French Lick was the Monon they would have handed off cars at Gosport or Lafayette to the PRR. There was also an other line out the Southwest end of the city with a tunnel about 1/2 mile long. It was still in use in 1990. My car may have a spelling error. It reads, (North American Despatch) should this be Dispatch? Eric Sample janeric@InfoCom.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:43:09 EST Subject: French Lick was Bell on F7 Content-Length: 595 According to "Railroads of Indiana" French Lick was served by the Monon via a branch from Orleans and the Southern RR by its tourist affiliate the French Lick, West Baden and Southern. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Alco PA's on the NCR? Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 09:17:10 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1331 On 1/4/98 9:35 AM, N Campbell (rncamp@harford.campus.mci.net) wrote: >I"ve seen a photo of PAs on the NC in York Pa. The picture shows A ABA set >pulling a train of mostly head end equipment. One A unit is painted DGLE >with single freight stripe the B unit was Tuscan with single broad stripe >and the second Aunit was Tuscan with 5 stripe. The photo was taken by the >father of the President of the PRRT&HS NC Chapter, and it hangs in his >basement. The PA's on the NCR in NY tended to be in helper service. Were any used on passenger trains on the Baltimore-Harrisburg trick was the original question. Interestingly, Coloroso's book shows an F7B in Tuscan five-stripe in freight service! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "N Campbell" Subject: Re: Alco PA's on the NCR? Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:35:21 -0500 Content-Length: 2203 Jerry, I"ve seen a photo of PAs on the NC in York Pa. The picture shows A ABA set pulling a train of mostly head end equipment. One A unit is painted DGLE with single freight stripe the B unit was Tuscan with single broad stripe and the second Aunit was Tuscan with 5 stripe. The photo was taken by the father of the President of the PRRT&HS NC Chapter, and it hangs in his basement. Travel by Rail Neil Campbell -----Original Message----- From: Jerry To: PRR-Talk Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 2:39 PM Subject: Alco PA's on the NCR? >Does anyone know if Alco passenger PA units ever ran on the Northern >Central Branch between Harrisburg and Baltimore? > >Gunnarson's book on the NCR doesn't show any. E's and Centipedes were >plentiful (in addition to many K4's and the only two K5's). > >Coloroso's book on the Elmira Branch (which was synonymous with the >northern part of the NCR) shows PA's in service there. > >Since I only model the "southern end" of the line, I don't know if I >should be picking up a set of P2K PA's when they inevitably come out in >PRR paint. Many thanks! > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:24:32 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Moly-XL Powder Content-Length: 1801 Sample wrote: > > Has anyone ever used Moly-XL moly powder for modeling purposes? I used > it to change the color of the grils on my F7 looks pretty good. It also > helps with sticky couples. If used on trucks it falls off trucks and > leaves a dusting of the tracks that is much like real tracks. Eric, I haven't used it, but molybdenum disulphide makes a VERY slippery lube powder, probably more so than the graphite powder sold by Kadee. Kadee's, BTW, is a bit coarser than the same material from a hardware store. Graphite is a conductor (carbon) and can cause shorting, or at least, current leakage, across wheel insulators. I am not sure about Moly compounds. You may lube your track as well, so watch out for loss of traction. > Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? > Readily available in hobby shops is "Squadron Green Putty," also made in red, and a similar Testor's product. It is a body filler with a lacquer solvent type base that hardens by evaporation, and is the de facto standard for filling holes in plastic and other model materials. Dries hard, not sticky when dry, sands smooth, holds paint, etc. Put a patch behind the hole and fill with a couple of applications to get a flush surface. It may shrink slightly whon drying. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: fillers Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:44:26 -0500 Content-Length: 2628 Just a note on fillers... In recent post, Stephen Bartlett mentions Green Stuff putty, and accordingly about shrinkage.... Green Stuff is very annoying to me, so I would suggest using acc (super glue) and plastic or better yet, balsa wood dust. Sand balsa wood into a pile ( I have a jar full ) and use your x-acto knife blade to pick some up, and place it in the hole. You can do this fairly neatly as the dust will compact. Then carefully drip a drop of super glue on to it from directly above. this will cure very fast and be very hard. Repeat as neccessary to fill slightly above level desired. When you sand down, use a ridgid foam core sanding board or files, as the filler will be harder than the surrounding material. You can get a high polish finish with this if desired, and if patient, can fill some very large areas. BTW- the sanding boards can be had fairly cheaply in the beauty supply sections at most stores, and in varying grades of coarseness. Try it, you might like it !! Joe Zappa >>> SNIP <<< ---------- > From: Stephen Bartlett > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >>> SNIP <<< > > Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? > > > Readily available in hobby shops is "Squadron Green Putty," also made > in red, and a similar Testor's product. It is a body filler with a > lacquer solvent type base that hardens by evaporation, and is the de > facto standard for filling holes in plastic and other model materials. > Dries hard, not sticky when dry, sands smooth, holds paint, etc. Put a > patch behind the hole and fill with a couple of applications to get a > flush surface. It may shrink slightly whon drying. > > Steve Bartlett > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:38:43 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Official Guide vs ORER was Re: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Content-Length: 2852 Greetings to Jerry and the group, The _Official Guide of the Railways and Steam Navigation Lines of the US, Porto (that's the way it's spelled on the cover) Rico, Cananda, Mexico and Cuba_ is its complete name. Most people just call it the Official Guide. It is probably what you see for sale at eBay. It was published monthly according to the cover of the November 1955 and April 1956 copy I have. It included air line and shipping schedules and station locations of freight only lines. My April 1956 copy has the Andrea Doria and Stolkholm listed. The ORER and the Official Guide differ greatly. The Official Guide is geared toward schedules of passenger carrying ships, planes and trains. It also identifies station so you can determine if you can ship something from point A to point B. The ORER is more geared to what you would ship that something in. It lists railway equipment available for interchange service on member railroads, the dimensions, car numbers and any special equipment the a car may have. The ORER also shows freight interchange points and has the interchange rules in effect when published. This is great for operations oriented modelers. According to the NMRA reprint of the January 1953 ORER I have, it was printed quarterly. Passenger equipment was included in the ORERs until 1943. After that a separate _Register of Passenger Train Equipment_ was printed. I have never seen one of these for sale. Maybe the NMRA could do a reprint of one of these too. I can't remember what the ORER reprint cost. It should still be available from the NMRA. For 1950s vintage Official Guides, you should be able to pick one up for less than $20.00 at train shows. As for passenger equipment that it lists, it just lists the type of car service typically assigned to that train not the specific class or number. The Official Guide schedule and train equipment pages pages look exactly like the public timetables, at least as far as the PRR is concerned. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 01:59 PM 1/3/98 -0400, Jerry wrote: >Okay, what is the "Official Guide"? > >Is it the "Official Guide to the Railways" that I often see for sale on >eBay? > >If so, I gather it is a compendium of all railroads equipment, routes, or >some sort of thing. Was it passenger only? How often was it published? > >How does this compare to an "ORER" that I often see references to? What >is that? ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:38:58 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Have NG 108 Years CD Rom Set! Content-Length: 2436 Greetings to the group, Went out and got the National Gepgraphic CD Rom set on Friday. Is it worth $150.00? YES! Can't wait for Smithsonion to come out with a set of CDs Here the details. The box says it needs at least a 486 DX 33 MHz to run. It runs fine and is stable on my 486SX 25 MHz. There are some Quick Time movies when you start and stop the program. These are just ads. They run a bit choppy at times. This is probably why they recommended the 33 MHz DX. The whole thing seems to be written in HTML. Each individual page is a JPEG image. Monitor resolution is good when zoomed in. (Have VGA monitor which is what is recommended.) Wouldn't want to spend hours reading off the screen though. Yes, you can import images into a photo manipulation program. Since the entire page is a JPEG, you should be able to convert it to a TIFF file, import into Acrobat and make a PDF file out of it (better printer output this way). Haven't tried that yet but I did take an ad and print out, in color, an HO sized billboard copy of it! The problem is finding the right page. You sort of have to guess a few time to get the right one when looking at the CD files from, say, Photoshop. But it works! The search engine works extremely well. Keyword searches can be done on ads, captions and articles. You can put a word in and, if you desire, it will list every page that the word appears. It takes a min of 10 Megs for the simple set up. If you go this route your searchs will be limited by having to swap CDs. If you have 100 megs to spare, the search goes extremily fast. The only down side for me is the speed. On my machine waiting for the pages to come up is reeeeeaaaaal slow! For you Mac types it wants sytem 7.5 or better and a 68030 33 MHz processor. Again having 100 megs available will greatly help searches. Will try it on my Power Mac at work next week. If I have any problems on the Mac side, I'll let you know. Should be a whole lot faster at work. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 17:08:23 +0000 From: Doug Drew Subject: PRR diesel assignments (was: Alco PA's on the NCR?) Content-Length: 1473 Further to this subject about what diesels ran on which lines, there is a print of a painting advertised in the January TRAINS (p.92) showing a centipede set at Renovo. I never knew they were allowed to roam that far off the Philadelphia-Chicago main, when they were downgraded from 6000 to 5000 hp, once they were pulled from passenger service. I have only seen photos of them in helper service, either pushing on the Pittsburgh division or pushing import ore trains up Devon hill. Is this painting accurate, in terms of centipedes being assigned to pull freight trains on the Northern region? Was this an interim measure, done after they were taken off passenger trains, but before they were downrated and regeared for helper service? Were they assigned to other regions or divisions as well, such as pulling ore trains from Cleveland to Pittsburgh, or coal from Columbus to Sandusky? I don't own any of the Pennsy Diesel Years books, which may have answered this question. Thanks in advance for any help on this. -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:29:37 EST Subject: "0" Gauge FOM Content-Length: 637 Was at a primarily Lionel / 3 rail train show this AM saw an 8 car set of PRR "fleet of modernism" on shorty passenger cars by K-Line "list was $ 60 per car - actuall selling price at show was about $ 45 each Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:35:32 EST Subject: Re: Official Guide - Was: Northern Central P-Trains in 1954? Content-Length: 2445 In a message dated 98-01-03 20:26:41 EST, Da72jmk@aol.com writes: >I doubt if it has been published since Amtrak began operation, but it > may have lingered. I don't know. >> After Amtrak's inception, the Guide was divided into passenger and freight books. The passenger version continued to be issued monthly, with an occasional 2-month issue, until early in 1983. At that time, an agreement was made between Amtrak and the publisher, and the Official Guide also became Amtrak's printed tariff. (Keep in mind that, by 1983, almost every Amtrak facility had all necessary tariff information in the computer. But there were a few small stations, and lots of travel agents, who didn't. And the book came in very handy when the computers went down, or to look up "old" fares and rules.) The Official Guide, suddenly much thicker--but not nearly as thick as the pre-1965 books--would be re-issued whenever Amtrak had a general tariff change. Two or three books would be issued in a typical year. They continued to carry schedules for all North American passenger railroads (although the commuter schedules only provided station names and the approximate frequency of service to each). They experimented with condensed European/Asian schedules for a while. Some time in late 1985 or early 1986, National Railway Publications Corp., the long-time publisher of the Guide, was replaced by an outfit called International Thomson Transport Press. I don't know whether this was a merger, purchase, or what. There has not been a printed Amtrak system tariff since about 1993. (Sorry I can't be exact, but the last 7 or 8 books are at work, and I'm at home). Those were good years for me. My job required that I have the current published tariff available, and also that I dispose of old tariffs when no longer needed. So guess what I have in my attic? But I would gladly trade most of those dozens of modern Official Guides for a few good, solid ones from the 1920's through 50's. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:40:47 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/04/98 Content-Length: 826 Reply to John Keel's message Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:00:11 EST Re: Alco PA's on the NCR? >>Passenger power on the (Northern Central) Branch was primarily GP7.<< I was employed by Penn Central just after the merger. Prior to its demise, the Washington/Baltimore connection to the Broadway consisted of one ragged-looking E8 and a single coach ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 12:57 04-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:23:48 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: Official Guide vs ORER was Re: Northern Central P-Trains in Content-Length: 1182 A Passenger equipment was included in the ORERs until 1943. >After that a separate _Register of Passenger Train Equipment_ was printed. >I have never seen one of these for sale. Maybe the NMRA could do a reprint >of one of these too. I can't remember what the ORER reprint cost. It should >still be available from the NMRA. I have a '43, '53, '68 and '71 passenger registers. I have never seen one for sale, I got mine from my father (who at one time worked in the traffic department of the PRR - among other entities). If there is interest, I can scan a PRR page from one of them and post it on my web site if the scan looks any good. Bob Webber PS If anyone is interested in the PRR pages, I could copy a few and fax them - let me know if interested ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:28:52 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: Have NG 108 Years CD Rom Set! Content-Length: 1430 At 11:38 AM 1/4/98 -0500, Drew R. McGhee wrote: >Greetings to the group, > >Went out and got the National Gepgraphic CD Rom set on Friday. Is it worth >$150.00? YES! Can't wait for Smithsonion to come out with a set of CDs I got mine at Sam's. The nice thing about the search is that in addition to the topic of an ad, it will show the company. For instance, a railroad ad with Colorado on it could be from any number of companies (D&RGW, CB&Q, MP, RI, UP,etc.). When you look on the search screen, you see that that specific ad was for the CRIP. Some for the PRR as well. I was somewhat disappointed at the dearth of railroad articles, but you really have to spend a little time in getting your search right. I have a P166 with well over a couple of gig of disk free (scsi) and 96 mb of RAM - and the search is very fast, and the articles come up very quickly. I wish there was a way to escape out of the stupid ads in front (for Kodak), there may be, but I haven't found it yet. Bob Webber ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:38:13 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: GATS Content-Length: 1694 Every month, we have a Great American Train Show here in Chicagoland. It is usually quite large (700 + Tables) and the stuff on sale ranges from Lionel & American Flyer, to scale brass, to beanie babies, to books, to videos, to photos, to... >From "listening" in on the modeling conversations, it seems like some people may have trouble finding certain items at good prices. I know that there is one vendor who always has the P2K stuff at very reaonable prices. I am planning on going next week - planning because weather, family or work could conspire against it. If there is a specific book, or model out there that you want me to look for, I am willing to try to be a scout for you. Please indicate model, price, condition that you are willing to pay. Obviously, I can not pay up front for hundreds of models or books, etc. I will limit the offer to the first few who send me a message. I will purchase the item, and ship it - the only "up" charge would be the actual shipping charge. The only guarantee I can give is that I will look for what ever, and try to get it from a reputable dealer, etc. I have no idea what kind of response I'll get, or if I'll try it again, but it might be worth a shot for those of you who aren't near a shop. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:28:30 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: Final J1 pic followup Content-Length: 658 Ok, I got the server problem straightened out, so if anyone still wants the pic and did not get it off of alt.binaries.pictures.rail (it should still be there) then e-mail me and I'll send it. Man, servers can be picky! Tom von Trott ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 18:33:46 -0800 From: Claus Schlund Subject: Re: Requesting recommendation on video Content-Length: 1854 Hi Don & List Members, I have "Ore Train" and "Middle Div". Ore Train is excellent, a total classic. Lots of I1 shots, good photography, good naration (a bit corny at times, but still quite ok). Middle Div has less inspired naration, has more diesels than steam, and has lots of shots featuring the motive power but a lot less of the trains themselves. I like it less than Ore Train. But then again, YMMV. Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA Donald E. Harper, Jr. wrote: > > I received a flyer for Penn Valley Pictures advertising 6 videos of PRR action - > The Ore Train (4 I-1's pulling a 100 car train); The S&L Story; Railfan > Excursion to NOrthumberland, PA; The Middle Division; The Susquehanna Division > of the PRR; Under the Catenary. Can anyone provide information about the > quality of these videos. > > Don Harper > Texas A&M Marine Lab > 5007 Avenue U > Galveston, TX 77551 > 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 > harperd@tamug.tamu.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:15:28 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: FOM Photos Content-Length: 2430 Doug Drew wrote: > > Dick Ross wrote: > > New PRR "Steam Year > >Vol 2" has a pre WW II shot of St Louis Terminal on Page 100 - showing > FOM > >scheme on many cars - including a combine > > Thanks, Dick! > Yes, I HAD seen the FOM scheme as applied to a combine -- I believe > there's a shot of a 'betterment' combine in the FOM scheme in Wayner's PRR > Passenger and Freight Photo and Diagram book, out of print. > I was looking more specifically for straight baggage and/or postal cars > in FOM. > It may be that the original FOM trains didn't carry a lot of head end > cars, besides combines. Or PRR simply didn't repaint them in FOM -- seems > these types of cars got shuffled around much more than 'assigned' consists of > trains. > So much to learn about the PRR, so little time! > -- Doug Drew > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Doug, It was PPR practice not to paint head end equipment in the two-tone Tuscan FoM paint; just retain the same gold (not buff) lettering. There supposedly was one car, an RPO I think, that was paintd in two-tone FoM, but so far no photos or written proof of it's existence or which car it was (rd. number) have shown up. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:54:50 EST Subject: Signaling Help Content-Length: 1044 Hi Y'all John Cooper wrote: Since your first request for signalling help, I've been thinking about what would be a simple way to implement signal logic (wiring). Can you send me your track plan and your plan for signal placement? I want to work through some of my ideas with your specifics in mind. John, I really could use any help you might share. I'm afraid however that I am not far enough along to look at wireing. You may have noted that Mark Bej has agreed to look at my track plan for signal placement. Perhaps later we can get back in touch. Thanks again-PRR FOREVER Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Use of two "Rapids" cars? Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:01:09 -0600 Content-Length: 2152 Jerry_Britton wrote: > > Two IHC cars that are out of production but still available in the dealer > channel are "Buffalo Rapids" and "Blue Rapids". IHC indicates them as > being in "inter-railroad" service. I can't find any reference to where > they were used. Anyone know? Or are these fictional names created by IHC? Page 84 of the "Bible", the PRRT&HS Passenger Car Painting and Lettering Guide, gives a considerable amount of information on these two cars. I will try and summarize some of that info and 1950 and 1954 car assignment books: 1950 Two-tone gray 10-6 Buffalo Rapids and Blue Rapids delivered from ACF for use on the Overland Route. Blue Rapids used in the General, Train 49. Not clear whether it was used as part of through connection to Coast, as there were 8 other cars so assigned for connection to C&NW No. 1, the City of Los Angeles Buffalo Rapids was used Westbound on No. 1, Pennsylvania Limited, connecting to C&NW Train No. 27 to San Francisco. Buffalo Rapids returned eastbound on C&NW train 28 connecting to Train 70, the Admiral. 1954. Blue Rapids was moved from General to extra service. Buffalo Rapids was still listed as being used as it was in 1950. 1955 Buffalo Rapids was painted UP yellow, I believe coinciding with Milwaukee Road taking over from C&NW as UP connection, but don't flame me if I am wrong on that:-). 1956 Blue Rapids painted Tuscan, renamed Fairless Hills. 1956-57. San Francisco car moved to Broadway during last year of operation. 1958. Buffalo Rapids painted Tuscan. Best I can do. I will look at my Blue Rapids more closely to see how accurate it is to the prototype and let you know by next week, following a business trip. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 06 Jan 98 11:42:41 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: PRRT&HS Convention Locale for 2002 Content-Length: 2052 Yes, think of the possibilities -- 1361 pounds over Rockville bridge on the aught track, the side of the bridge collapses in another spot, and the whole shootin' match goes into the drink... Shades of the N&W 610 excursion that derailed at high speed. Given that NS will probably be in possession of the bridge (and the track on it) by that time, Rockville's apparent frailty, and NS's attitude toward steam excursions these days, it's unlikely there will be ANY kind of steam operating over the bridge in 2002... -- Doug Drew Jerry_Britton wrote: >The 1999 PRRT&HS Convention is being held in Altoona to celebrate 150 >years since the first revenue stop there. That got me thinking... > >Perhaps the convention should return to the Harrisburg area in 2002 to >celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Rockville Bridge!!! > >Would be an ideal time for an excursion train over the bridge, don't you >think? Will K4 #1361 be ready? Could the "cyber chapter" be the host? > >Think of the possibilities!!! 8-) > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:08:01 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Requesting recommendation on video Content-Length: 2113 >I received a flyer for Penn Valley Pictures advertising 6 videos of PRR >action - >The Ore Train (4 I-1's pulling a 100 car train); The S&L Story; Railfan >Excursion to NOrthumberland, PA; The Middle Division; The Susquehanna >Division >of the PRR; Under the Catenary. Can anyone provide information about the >quality of these videos. Don, Under the Catenary is a must have resource for juice jocks. Most (if not all?) of the film was shot in color, and although the preponderance of shots are of GG1s, there are a number of E44s, P5s and others. The locations vary from the NEC to Harrisburg, Perryville and Columbia. The last few minutes are of diesels leaving Harrisburg. The era ranges from late PRR through PC, and some Amtrak. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they are okay, then it's you." - Rita Mae Brown _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:53:05 EST Subject: Re: Moly-XL Powder Content-Length: 858 In a message dated 98-01-04 10:20:53 EST, sbartlet@capecod.net writes: << Sample wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? > Readily available in hobby shops is "Squadron Green Putty," also made in red, and a similar Testor's product. >> Another idea is to cut a new door from thin (.005) styrene sheet and cover the original door. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:30:54 EST Subject: Re: PRR diesel assignments (was: Alco PA's on the NCR?) Content-Length: 1126 Several Northern Region employee timetables (1957 & 1963) show restrictions for class BH50. Of course, that doesn't prove that the centipedes ever got there. After all, the 1963 timetable still shows the restrictions for steam engines! Pennsy Power 2 has a picture of a pair of BH50's pulling a freight on the Middle Division. Pennsy Power 3 has several more pictures of them on the Middle Division. Pennsy Diesel Years 4 (the only one I have) has a centipede somewhere under catenary. John Keel In a message dated 98-01-04 17:02:17 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << Is this painting accurate, in terms of centipedes being assigned to pull freight trains on the Northern region? >> ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR diesel assignments (was: Alco PA's on the NCR?) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 19:44:08 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1023 On 1/4/98 1:08 PM, Doug Drew (ddrew@channing-bete.com) wrote: >January TRAINS (p.92) showing a centipede set at Renovo. I >never knew they were allowed to roam that far off the >Philadelphia-Chicago main, when they were downgraded from Gunnarson's book on the Northern Central Railway shows MANY photos of Centipedes at the head of passenger trains between Baltimore and Harrisburg. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Modeled NCR Operations Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 19:45:32 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1108 On 1/4/98 2:10 PM, Doug Drew (ddrew@channing-bete.com) wrote: >Why don't you post the track plan, operating scheme, >proposed freight and passenger schedules, etc. on your site, >as a "case study" on how one PRR model railroad is being >thought-out and constructed. Maybe have an e-mail feedback >link on the page as well. Everyone seems to be missing the site I keep referring to... http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html Includes track plans and operational data. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Diesel Class Roster pages Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 19:50:10 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1227 Though my work on my diesel roster class pages have taken a back seat to my passenger equipment pages (which are stagnant with an infant in the house), I did add one column to the overview page...the "Intro Year". The overview page now shows: -PRR Class -Builder Model -Available HO Models -Year of Introduction This was prompted by my need to purchase diesels for my 1953-54 Northern Central. This reference tips you off so you don't by models that weren't in existence for your modeling period. Take a look at http://prr.dsop.com/motiveops/index.html. Second link under diesels. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:02:40 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Re: Middle Division Coke Ovens Content-Length: 1568 Greeting to Harold and the group, By the way, Harold, nice name but you spell it funny!:-) Anyway, there were coke ovens just west of the end of the Middle Division between Altoona and Cresson. The ones around Horseshoe Curve are still there. The ones just east of the tunnels at Tunnel Hill are now gone. The clearance project did the remains in. There are still some more between the tunnels and Cresson. As for the Middle Division proper, can't be of much help. Can look up photo sources of these if you need them. There would have been a near by source of coal and a near by use for the coke. I can't think where there were coal and ore available along the Middle Division. If there were any ovens, my guess they would be around the Mount Union area. Here in the Altoona area there was coal near the ovens and ore available for a rather decent iron making industry until Cambria City (Johnstown) got going. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 03:35 PM 12/31/97 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >Does anyone know if there were any coke ovens located in the Middle Division? >and if so a source of photographs? > >Harold McGee >Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:02:53 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Re: Signaling help Content-Length: 3961 Greetings to Jerry and the group, To build something as elaborate as John Armstrong's "PRR-Middle and Pittsburg Divisions" track plan and not to do the PRR signaling right would be a sin. (And probably a crime in some southern states.) It would be a bit difficult to try to explain railroad signaling practices in general and PRR's practices specifically via e-mail. What I would suggest is collecting a few books about the subject to bring yourself up to speed. Then you can ask specific questions that could be answered by those on the list. If you want the 'whole shebang' as Mark Bej called it, I would suggest the following books by Bruce Chubb. First off is Dr. Chubb's _How to Operate Your Model Railroad_. It covers a variety of subjects that may be of interests to those who enjoy prototype practices including signaling. It was first printed in 1977 by Kalmbach and is, I believe, out of print now. It should be easy to pick up at a train show or through a used book vender. Check out the used book section of your favorite model railroad shop. Dr. Chubb also wrote _Build Your Own universal Computer Interface_. The first edition was published by TAB in 1989. It is now in its second edition, though I'm not sure who is publishing the 2nd edition. His computer interface system was mentioned again in the September 1997 issue of _Model Railroader_. The last page of the article provides ordering information for the book supplies and suppliments. Chubb provides more detail in his book and suppliments about his model railroad/computer interface than was originally printed in _Model Railroader_ series of articles in the February 1985 through August 1986 issues. If you want true prototype fidelity, this is the way to go. He provides the information, circuits and software to do it. Next up is any thing written by John Armstrong! Of the many things he has written, those that will be of immediate help would be his book-of-books _The Railroad What It Is, What It Does_. This book has been around since the 70s and is at least in its 3rd edition. It is published by Simmons-Boardman. It should be easy to have your local B. Dalton, Waldens or Barnes & Noble order it for you. The Great Train Store chain has it too. It is used as a text book to teach railroad practices and has a good chapter on signaling. A book, booklet really, long out of print but shows up at train shows is Armstrong's _All About Signals_. A lot of the material in ths booklet is in _The Railroad What It Is..._. It is a reprint of articles he wrote for the June and July 1957 issues of _Trains_ magazines. The original _Trains_ issues may be easier to find. Another Armstrong book that has no signlaing stuff but is good for prototype practices is his _Track Planning for Realistic Operation_. The latest edition is available from Kalmbach. Good luck and keep us informaed. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 10:23 PM 1/1/98 EST, ARR JERRY wrote: >Hi y'all, >I am looking for help designing a signal system on my home layout. >I am well underway building the "Middle & Pittsburgh Division" by John >Armstrong (20 Cuntom Designed Track Plans-page 51) in HO. >I do not understand signaling and would like to install a reasonable system. >I would like recommendations on > 1. Locations, 2. Types, 3. Manufacturers, and 4. wireing. >If there is any interest out there, please inform me of availability and $ >required. > > PRR FOREVER, Jerry > ARRJERRY@AOL.COM ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:09:32 -0500 From: "Larry P. Morgan" Subject: Re: "0" Gauge FOM Content-Length: 1846 VVA249 wrote: > > Was at a primarily Lionel / 3 rail train show this AM saw an 8 > car set of > PRR "fleet of modernism" on shorty passenger cars by K-Line "list was > $ 60 > per car - actuall selling price at show was about $ 45 each > Dick Ross > Last year the K-Line Collectors Club was selling that excellent set for $220 for the 8 cars. It was only available through the Collectors Club. I have a set. For anyone willing to use shorter-than-scale they are great. If you join the K-Line Collectors Club ($50) you may want to ask if they have any more of the FOM cars at the club price. Phone number is 1-800-866-9986. Take the choice for customer service. The premium this year is Work Caboose with spot light (Kennicut Copper) and a passenger car for the Golden State, which was run by PRR, Rock Island, and Southern Pacific. These are sent with no additional charge. Not a bad deal. The FOM cars were always an additional item A K4 from the collectors club will be out in 2000. The K-Line collectors club has had a lot of good items lately, and some of it is good PRR. If you are willing to use O gauge and less than scale, they offer very good toy trains. Typically, any K-Line labeled CLASSIC is higher end toy train, and all of the K-Line Collectors Club items I have seen fit the bill. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AJSNGS Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:34:36 EST Subject: Washington Broadway Ltd. Content-Length: 584 Does anyone know what years the Washington Broadway Limited ran ? I know this train became the Liberty Limited. What year was the name changed ? Thanks, Andrew Sentipal ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AJSNGS Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:36:15 EST Subject: K4s # 3749 Content-Length: 512 I am looking for a photo and roster assignment information for K4s #3749. Thanks Andrew Sentipal ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:57:59 +0000 Subject: SOHO's PRR Congressional Cars available Content-Length: 1090 Please allow me to post the following: I have a 12 car PRR Congressional consists that is for sale (this set is six cars short of a full consists -- see Wayner's Car Names, Numbers and Consists book, page 15 -- theses six cars are all of the type "60-seat Chair Car with 14-seat Lounge"). These HO Congressional cars were imported by SOHO. I am only willing to sell these 12 cars as a set. If interested in purchasing, please email me as: greglear@bellsouth.net I wanted to give PRR-Talk participants the first opportunity to purchase this set before placing them on the eBay auction listing. Thank you. Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:53:19 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Was- Moly-XL Powder Content-Length: 1587 At 04:53 PM 1/4/98 EST, Da72jmk wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-04 10:20:53 EST, sbartlet@capecod.net writes: > ><< Sample wrote: > > > Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access >door so that it will look like a PRR F7? > > In addition to the other ideas, you may want to try glazing compound (not body filler) used for body and fender repair. I know Dupont, 3M and some other brands are available. It dries quick, can be sanded and is available in a reusable tube. It also takes paint well. (That's what it was designed for) One of my co-workers uses it to fill the joints around the wings on expensive aircraft kits that he enjoys. He also uses Future Brand floor treatment to cover the decal film and get a semi-gloss finish and sealer on the surface. This may be advantageous on certain railroad projects. Have you ever noticed that most folks (me included) paint everything in the M-RR world dead flat! Even when the real item being modeled was not flat or dull? The exception is to make human figures shiny of course. (all of my clothes shine?) Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:25:55 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Bell on F7 Content-Length: 1470 Sample wrote: > > Hi Gang > Does anyone know where the bell was located on the F7? Generally, the "stock" location was behind the pilot. Some railroads moved them to external locations, either for better sound dispersal or to keep the horn away from snow thrown up from the track. > Also interested > in the horn mounting. Athearn F7 engine has two horns. While Pennsy II > doesn't show this clearly would one be faceing to the rear? Or did the > F7 operate in ABA and AA lash ups so that horns faced rear on one e ngine > and forward on the other? Looking at a few pictures, the F7 (PRR Class EF-17) seems to have generally had a single horn mount located to the right of center, with a single or multiple horn. There was no left-side mounting. (Never say "never"). Changing horns is relatively simple. They just bolt onto a mounting adapter fitting. Your best bet for a specific model is to work from photos. The _Pennsy Diesel Years_ books have good views, with engine types identified. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:17:17 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: passenger train Content-Length: 1559 Hi all... This is in responce to.... Does anyone know what years the Washington Broadway Limited ran ? I know this train became the Liberty Limited. What year was the name changed ? Thanks, Andrew Sentipal Andrew....According to "The Keystone" in Vol.28 No.1 as part of the article about Baltimores Penn station...on page 49 it says... " May 6th,1923 Washington Broadway Limited...an extention of the Washington sleeping car service(carried to the "Broadway Limited" at Harrisburg) established between Washington and Chicago." Then it also says on page 48..... at center bottom..... "Baltimore was intoduced to their own version of luxury at Union station on May 6th,1923.On that date PRR inaugurated the "Washington Broadway Limited" on a fast,19 hour schedule,serving Washington,Baltimore and Chicago.Trains 58 and 59 became second only to the premier "Broadway Limited" in the hierarchy of the road's limiteds. (In 1925 these trains were renamed the "Liberty Limited".)" hope this gives you the information you need.... H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:46:00 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: MP-54 Content-Length: 2164 Hello again everyone.... A while back someone was asking for information on all/other railroads that might have owned or used MP-54 or P-54 type PRR passenger cars. I found a some more you all might not have known about. In the June 1972 issue of TRAINS magazine there is a article about a small shortline railroad called the Midland Continental. This railroad ran between Edgeley and Wimbleton,North Dakota. This railroad was abandoned in 1971,but BNSF(BN at the time) and Soo line took over parts of the trackage as branch extentions of their connections to it. In the article it shows one picture of a car and lists the railroads roster over the years. It lists these three cars as follows.... No.101...combine.....bought from Louisiana & Arkansas RR in 1949 originally PRR, retired 1960...used as warehouse until 1964...placed alongside tracks minus trucks....abandoned. No.401...coach...bought 1913,probably PRR, retired 1950. No.402...coach...bought 1923..also former PRR ,retired 1951 It does not give dispostitions for the last two cars or former PRR numbers for any of them. The picture it shows of a car is their No.101...but it is not a combine...it looks more like a baggage-mail car...you do not see any large number of passenger windows at the other end and there is a sliding door at that end also. But it is clearly a former PRR MP or P-54 car. So this goes to show that there were two other railroads with PRR MP or P-54 type cars. The Midland Continental and the Louisiana&Arkansas RR's. H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 02:12:09 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Ball Scan, J1 pic scanned, if you want it. Content-Length: 1033 Hi all: I recently purchased a flatbed scanner, and I finally got around to scanning my favorite shot out of Don Ball's PRR book. It is of J1 6488 in a snowy sunset. This pic is on page 165. The scan I made makes a great background on a monitor running 640*480, 16 bit color or better. If anyone needs a larger version for 800*600 or greater I'll send you a larger version you can custom fit it to your needs. I really can't post it to the binaries pic group since it is a copyrighted image, so if anyone is interested E-mail me and I'll send you the pic. It is only 74k, so it won't take long to download. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Proto 2000 GP9's Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 09:07:45 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 810 Of the three P2K GP9 road numbers (#7206, #7160, #7221), anyone know which was the third number...the one that was announced later than the other two? I just ordered P2K GP9 #7206, SD7 #8588, and SD9 #7603. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Use of two "Rapids" cars? Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 10:29:58 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 889 Two IHC cars that are out of production but still available in the dealer channel are "Buffalo Rapids" and "Blue Rapids". IHC indicates them as being in "inter-railroad" service. I can't find any reference to where they were used. Anyone know? Or are these fictional names created by IHC? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:51:18 EST Subject: Re: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 938 In a message dated 98-01-03 14:29:30 EST, ironhorse@sprintmail.com writes: << Also, I recall about four or five years ago seeing a few ads in MR for plastic BP-20 A-units at about $275.00 each. Had I not just blown all my available loot on brass ones by Oriental about five months before, I would have ordered a couple. >> And you still would not have them today. They are supposedly still under development. This is a Fred Becker (yes the same Fred Becker from Front Range, Sky Lim etc.) project. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 8:53:20 -0600 Subject: Signaling help -Reply Content-Length: 1939 Jerry, Love that track plan. Hope to do it myself one day. Are you going to go DCC? If so, there are major DCC based signalling products on the horizon. Expect announcements soon. By the way, I have a question on the track plan. In the lower left hand corner by Alto Tower there are two dashed lines with arrowheads. They intersect the visible track at a junction marked "Y". What are these dashed lines? If they are hidden tracks, where do they go? Bill Laird Houston, Texas >>> "ARRJERRY@aol.com" 01/02/98 08:26am wrote>>> >Hi y'all, >I am looking for help designing a signal system on my home layout. >I am well underway building the "Middle & Pittsburgh Division" by John >Armstrong (20 Cuntom Designed Track Plans-page 51) in HO. >I do not understand signaling and would like to install a reasonable >system. >I would like recommendations on > 1. Locations, 2. Types, 3. Manufacturers, and 4. wireing. >If there is any interest out there, please inform me of availability and $ >required. > PRR FOREVER, Jerry > ARRJERRYÉAOL.COM ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerryÉdsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listservÉdsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmasterÉdsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: 1909 Chickie's Rock post card Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 11:19:29 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 843 For those into the Atglen & Susquehanna or the Columbia Branch, there's a 1909 postcard of the "new" low-grade rounding Chickie's Rock on sale at eBay. Bid is at $1. The URL is: http://iguana.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3868957 --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:13:35 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: J1 pic followup Content-Length: 669 I sent the pic out to 2 people who requested it and i wonder if anyone got it? I recived at least one of them back in a bounced message. If you asked for it and did not get it please send me another message and I'll send it again. Thanks, Tom von Trott ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Modeling ideas (was: Madison Hill) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:34:50 -0600 Content-Length: 674 Mark Bej wrote: "Here's my modular pike dream idea: ZOO interlocking. To exact scale. Probably best done in N-scale. Main lines simply loop around to another incoming track." Would you use John Armstrong's plan from MR from the 50's? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: cabin cars Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:44:09 -0600 Content-Length: 552 Regarding Gloorcraft kits, I just saw a new rerun of ND, NDA HO kits on a Madison, Wisconsin, dealer's shelf this past weekend. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Model Power Sharks Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:48:37 -0600 Content-Length: 903 Todd Horton wrote: "I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes?" Watch out which bodies you get. I have a set of Model Power units I repainted and relettered. I picked up an extra undec plastic shell. Dug it out the other day and noticed it is considerably different and cruder than the originals. Anyone know the origin and chronology of this shell? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Moly-XL Powder Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:55:56 -0600 Content-Length: 1143 > Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? As I previously posted, Athearn made a run of F7 bodies without light lens a few years ago-- you might find one on a dusty shelf somewhere, or check Walther's catalog for parts. There is a also a vendor who makes a metal casting F7 door without light which you could plug in. You guys are going to force me to get on line at home so I can reference these parts, etc. I agree with Stephen Bartlett that filling in the opening with Squadron green is an annoying job because of the shrinkage --I tried the same on the Rivarossi E8. Don't know if the fine white Squadron putty is as bad. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: Model Power Sharks Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:15:22 -0500 Content-Length: 980 > "I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How > accurate > are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes?" > > Watch out which bodies you get. I have a set of Model Power units I > repainted and relettered. I picked up an extra undec plastic shell. > Dug it out the other day and noticed it is considerably different and > cruder than the originals. > Anyone know the origin and chronology of this shell? > Tyco also offered a shark for a while. Wonder if that shell is actually the Tyco shark? ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:21:15 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Signaling help -Reply Content-Length: 1244 bill.laird@coastalcorp.com wrote: >.............. > By the way, I have a question on the track plan. In the lower left hand > corner by Alto Tower there are two dashed lines with arrowheads. > They intersect the visible track at a junction marked "Y". What are these > dashed lines? If they are hidden tracks, where do they go? > Bill, For my .02 worth, I just took a look at the plan. I think John was just suggesting additional possible stub tracks. He does not mention them in the text, and they do not show on the schematic. BTW, the tracks in the Alto area on the plan and the schematic do not seem to match. Both the crossovers shown at Alto are left hand on the track plan. The "y" reference just indicates an equilateral switch, not a match point - see the key for the plan. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 05 Jan 98 14:22:22 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 4384 --====56525549505349495157===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Probably an old Mantua (or Tyco) shell, originally cast Zamac or some other white metal, but later versions were done in plastic. Yes, much cruder -- early 50's tooling. By the way, the windshield access ladders on the Model Power version are incorrect for PRR (but correct for NYC), but I'm sure you already knew that and removed them... by the way, what year did the ICC or FRA decree that all locomotives must have means of access to the windshields that were integral to the body of the unit? Bob Zoeller wrote: > >Todd Horton wrote: > >"I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate >are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes?" > >Watch out which bodies you get. I have a set of Model Power units I >repainted and relettered. I picked up an extra undec plastic shell. >Dug it out the other day and noticed it is considerably different and >cruder than the originals. >Anyone know the origin and chronology of this shell? > >Bob Zoeller > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====56525549505349495157===1 Date: 05 Jan 98 14:24:09 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Moly-XL Powder Content-Length: 4201 --====55534948515554515551===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Athearn is still producing the single-lens F7 shell, at least for its "Special Edition" limited-run paint jobs, so I assume they would have it in stock as a part. Bob Zoeller wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have suggestions on how to fill in the light lens on the >access door so that it will look like a PRR F7? > >As I previously posted, Athearn made a run of F7 bodies without light lens >a few years ago-- you might find one on a dusty shelf somewhere, or check >Walther's catalog for parts. >There is a also a vendor who makes a metal casting F7 door without light >which you could plug in. You guys are going to force me to get on line at home so >I can reference these parts, etc. > >I agree with Stephen Bartlett that filling in the opening with Squadron >green is an annoying job because of the shrinkage --I tried the same on the >Rivarossi E8. Don't know if the fine white Squadron putty is as bad. > >Bob Zoeller > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====55534948515554515551===1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 13:26:33 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: RE: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 1173 At 12:48 PM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Todd Horton wrote: > >"I came across a set of repowered, undec sharks at a train show. How accurate >are the bodies of the Model Power sharks for PRR modeling purposes?" > >Watch out which bodies you get. I have a set of Model Power units I repainted and relettered. I picked up an extra undec plastic shell. >Dug it out the other day and noticed it is considerably different and cruder than the originals. >Anyone know the origin and chronology of this shell? > >Bob Zoeller > > > > The cruder Shark is probably a Tyco/Mantua version. The F7 manufacturer is Cary. To fill the headlight, use solid tubing with filler just around the tube. Stewart also made single headlight F7s. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:14:01 EST Subject: The last Lines West loco! wasRe: Proto 2000 GP9's Content-Length: 1579 In a message dated 98-01-05 09:05:40 EST, you write: << I just ordered P2K GP9 #7206, *SD7 #8588*, and SD9 #7603. >> Jerry, I see you're finally taking an interest in Lines West with your SD7 purchase. The PRR bought only two, 8588 & 8589, ballasted them to 360,000 lbs and supposedly outfitted them with "Rail washers" for dedicated pusher service on the Hill at Madison, Ind., With all the prototype research you're doing on the North Central, I'm surprised you're buying a locomotive thatt never operated east of Cincinnati. Switching to a GP9 for conversion to a "B" unit or another SD9 might be a better buy if you're working on historical accurate traffic. BTW, could you PLEASE use NCRR or NCRY when writing about the North Central. My cervical cartilige is deteriorating from the double takes I do anytime I see a post about "NCR." For a brief second I think I'm about to read something pertaing to the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Ry., part of the PRR's disjointed Pennsylvania, Ohio & Detroit RR which served a much better known NCR, the National Cash Register Co. works and world headquarters in Dayton, Ohio. ;-) Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:33:22 EST Subject: Re: Operating Semaphore Signals -- 1998 (fwd) Content-Length: 1065 In a message dated 98-01-05 09:51:20 EST, you write: << Also most > of the CSX's Indianapolis Sub between Hamilton,Ohio and Indianpolis > still had these signals. A nice double masted set is in downtown > Connersville,Indiana. >> Of course, Mark you know that the NS stills uses a rail line the PRR built in the 1880s between Hamilton and Richmond (under a named that is inaccessible because of that damn busted tape drive). Like the Little Miami RR heading east from the Queen City, this line is generally another example of a single- tracked PRR mainline. I'm not sure who's using the Panhandle main between Richmond & Indy. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: FS: HO PRR E8A Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:40:37 -0500 Content-Length: 607 AHM/Rivarossi HO PRR E8A in tuscan 5 stripe. Powered but untested. $20 plus postage. Email wgripp@prius.jnj.com if interested. Bill Gripp wgripp@prius.jnj.com (908) 429-6118 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:54:02 EST Subject: FOM Photos Content-Length: 616 Previous posts inquired about FOM paint on Head end cars New PRR "Steam Year Vol 2" has a pre WW II shot of St Louis Terminal on Page 100 - showing FOM scheme on many cars - including a combine Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:51:10 EST Subject: Signaling Help Content-Length: 757 Hi Y'all, Many thanks to Drew R McGhee for his many references on signaling a PRR home layout. I will partake of what I am able to find for the actual operation (wireing) of the signals on my layout. This, along with Mark Bej's help alloes me to visualize success. Thanks-PRR FOREVER Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:56:46 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: 57 Plans MOW for the PRR Content-Length: 522 I have listed this book on the EBAY auction: http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3894494 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:11:06 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Rails Northeast Issues Content-Length: 798 Yes - I finaly found some! I had to take a 2200 mile trip, but there they were! Due to the infamous disk crash, failing memory, etc. I have no record of who might have been interested. I have put them out on the E Bay auction to see what happens. If they work well, I'll send for some more (earlier) issues. http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3895394 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:14:15 EST Subject: Signaling Help Content-Length: 1164 Hi Y'all Bill Laird asks: By the way, I have a question on the track plan. In the lower left hand corner by Alto Tower there are two dashed lines with arrowheads. They intersect the visible track at a junction marked "Y". What are these dashed lines? If they are hidden tracks, where do they go? Steve Bartlett responded: I think John was just suggesting additional possible stub tracks. I agree with Steve. I fell in love with the track plan and converted it to HO and my room. I did however want more operating points and Diesel facilities which I added. The corner in question provides some wall "flats" and also Y's to some short stub tracks. Thanks-PRR FOREVER Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:16:02 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Model Power Sharks Content-Length: 1145 SUVCW ORR wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-03 14:29:30 EST, ironhorse@sprintmail.com writes: > > << Also, I recall about four or five years ago seeing a few ads in MR for > plastic BP-20 A-units at about $275.00 each. Had I not just blown all > my available loot on brass ones by Oriental about five months before, I > would have ordered a couple. > >> > And you still would not have them today. They are supposedly still under > development. This is a Fred Becker (yes the same Fred Becker from Front > Range, Sky Lim etc.) project. > > Rich Orr Rich, As soon as I saw the "LBF" I knew it was Fred B. I only met him a little while back, and can now rattle his chain about this project. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:25:43 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Use of two "Rapids" cars? Content-Length: 1528 Jerry_Britton wrote: > > Two IHC cars that are out of production but still available in the dealer > channel are "Buffalo Rapids" and "Blue Rapids". IHC indicates them as > being in "inter-railroad" service. I can't find any reference to where > they were used. Anyone know? Or are these fictional names created by IHC? > Jerry, The cars are described in the Blardone & Tilp book _Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering_, pages 84 & 85. According to this book they were 10 Section, Drawing Room, 2 Compartment, Pullman Plan 9008. Built by ACF in 1950, they were delivered in two-tone gray, and operated New York to San Francisco and Washington to S.F., on the PRR "Admiral" and the C&NW-UP-SP "San Francisco Overland Limited." Paint schemes and routings changed over the years. Buffalo Rapids was painted in UP colors from May, 1955, to June, 1958, then PRR colors. Blue Rapids was painted in PRR colors and renamed "Fairless Hills" in April, 1956. There is a bit more detail on the paint schemes in the book, if you want to be more precise. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:30:07 -0800 From: Claus Schlund Subject: Re: MP-54 Content-Length: 3970 Hi! Wow! It seems like P54 are coming out of the woodwork! There is a PRR-related question on Mark Bej web pages that mentions that three P54's were sold to the US government, and then further sold to the SP&S! Excerpts from http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Questions/new.html appear below: I [...] came across a Pennsy reference while researching a book on the maintenance-of-way equipment of the SP&S [Spokane, Portland & Seattle]. It seems that the SP&S purchased 3 cars of the Pennsy MP54 or MP54-subclass which had been in service for the federal government. They were purchased from the government in 1951/1952. Their former reporting marks are shown to be US 755, 756, and 758. The SP&S MoW diagram sheet for the cars is virtually identical to the MP54A1 diagrams in Wayner's "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger and Freight Car Diagrams". Unfortunately, the Pennsy numbers are not present on the diagram. So, to the question(s) I have: What were the reporting marks for the Pennsy MP54A1 class? What cars of this class, or similar classes, were sold to the government? When did this occur and why? Is there a detailed record of the renumberings into government ownership? What other information is available on these cars? bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hello again everyone.... > > A while back someone was asking for information on all/other railroads > that might have owned or used MP-54 or P-54 type PRR passenger cars. > I found a some more you all might not have known about. > > In the June 1972 issue of TRAINS magazine there is a article about > a small shortline railroad called the Midland Continental. > This railroad ran between Edgeley and Wimbleton,North Dakota. > This railroad was abandoned in 1971,but BNSF(BN at the time) > and Soo line took over parts of the trackage as branch extentions > of their connections to it. > > In the article it shows one picture of a car and lists the railroads > roster over the years. > It lists these three cars as follows.... > > No.101...combine.....bought from Louisiana & Arkansas RR in 1949 > originally PRR, retired 1960...used as warehouse until > 1964...placed alongside tracks minus trucks....abandoned. > > No.401...coach...bought 1913,probably PRR, retired 1950. > > No.402...coach...bought 1923..also former PRR ,retired 1951 > > It does not give dispostitions for the last two cars or former PRR > numbers for any of them. > > The picture it shows of a car is their No.101...but it is not a > combine...it looks more like a baggage-mail car...you > do not see any large number of passenger windows at the > other end and there is a sliding door at that end also. > But it is clearly a former PRR MP or P-54 car. > > So this goes to show that there were two other railroads with PRR > MP or P-54 type cars. > The Midland Continental and the Louisiana&Arkansas RR's. > > H.Mummert > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:36:25 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Use of two "Rapids" cars? Content-Length: 2453 Jerry_Britton wrote: > > Two IHC cars that are out of production but still available in the dealer > channel are "Buffalo Rapids" and "Blue Rapids". IHC indicates them as > being in "inter-railroad" service. I can't find any reference to where > they were used. Anyone know? Or are these fictional names created by IHC? > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Jerry, These two cars (Blue Rapids & Buffalo Rapids) were ACF cars specifically bought by PRR for "Overland Route" Service. They had other cars painted in name train colors also. In general this practice was referred to by the PRR as "Through Service". Anyhow, Blue Rapids & Buffalo Rapids were delivered in the standard two-tone "O-L" colors. In May of 1955, Buffalo Rapids was repainted into UP colors to match their "City" trains. The IHC cars were done in this color split. "Blue Rapids" was repainted Tuscan in 1956 and renamed "Fairless Hills". "Buffalo Rapids" was repainted Tuscan in 1958, retaining it's name. As far as I know, IHC did three other "Rapids" cars (all Tuscan with the three buff stripes, one over and two under the windows): "Catawissa Rapids", Huron Rapids", and "French Rapids". I have these three in my collection. They were also supposed to do "Juniata Rapids" and "Mackinaw Rapids" in FoM colors, but I don't know if they were done before the supply dried up. I'd appreciate any information anyone may have on these last two. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:39:45 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Rails Northeast Issues (Correction) Content-Length: 854 Yes - I finaly found some! I had to take a 2200 mile trip, but there they were! Due to the infamous disk crash, failing memory, etc. I have no record of who might have been interested. I have put them out on the E Bay auction to see what happens. If they work well, I'll send for some more (earlier) issues. I made a mistake on the item - the correct auction is: http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3897678 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:07:29 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: PB-70 FOM Content-Length: 905 Hi folks... Please note that in the book "The story of the Northern Central railway" by Gunnarsson (Greenburg) on page 6 there is a picture of a PB-70 combine in the FOM paint scheme. Also the "Keystone" Vol.28 No.1 shows the diner No.4501 (painted stainless diner)in Baltimore as part of the Liberty Limited in the FOM scheme on pages 46&47. I have a question for the group...What were trains 50 & 51? Thanks all.... H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: MP-54 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:21:16 -0500 Content-Length: 2183 Hi, all! I'll add my two cents with the names of two members of the relatively exclusive P-54 Club (other than those mentioned during the current and the previous thread). The Tuckerton, a relatively obscure South Jersey shortline that operated the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, purchased a NEW MP-54 in 1915, numbered it #7, with its letterboard lettered TUCKERTON R.R. in gold. This car ran on through Pennsy trains Camden to Beach Haven. John Brinckmann's "THE TUCKERTON RAILROAD A chronicle of Transport to the NEW JERSEY SEASHORE" privately printed in 1973 tells the story. The intrigues of foreign equipment running on Pennsy streamliners pales by comparison to this humble through equipment. Another South Jersey shortline, the Union Transportation Company, purchased a 1910 vintage MPB54 in 1917 (it was #4619 and renumbered UT Co. 106). Brinckmann again tells the full story of this shortline, which was also the last stand of Pennsy steam when 5244 (leased by the UT) made its last run on July 14, 1959. This book is entitled "PEMBERTON and HIGHTSTOWN A chronicle of Railroading through the FARM BELT of NEW JERSEY", printed privately in 1987. > A while back someone was asking for information on all/other railroads > that might have owned or used MP-54 or P-54 type PRR passenger cars. > I found a some more you all might not have known about. > > In the June 1972 issue of TRAINS magazine there is a article about > a small shortline railroad called the Midland Continental. > This railroad ran between Edgeley and Wimbleton,North Dakota. > This railroad was abandoned in 1971,but BNSF(BN at the time) > and Soo line took over parts of the trackage as branch extentions > of their connections to it. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:54:19 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: PB-70 FOM Content-Length: 1808 Effective April 29, 1956, 50 and 51 were The Admiral, New York-Chicago trains. Prior to that time, The Admiral carried train nos. 70-71. On the westbound leg, 51 ran combined with the Clevelander, No. 39, between New York and Pittsburgh. Effective Oct. 26, 1958, 51 was discontinued (though 39 continued to run NY-Cleveland for a few more years) but the eastbound 50 continued to operate, with its Admiral name intact, through Penn Central and right up to Amtrak day, May 1, 1971. I saw it many times as it stopped in Lewistown (while I was a Penn State student) a little after 9 a.m. It carried a sleeper and diner through 1966 but in early 1967 the diner was replaced with PRR's inevitable "snack bar coach." By April 30, it had lost its sleeper as well. In its last PRR days and its PC days, it consisted of a pair of bedraggled E units, a couple of baggage cars, and of course, the "reclining seat coaches" and "snack bar coach," which must have been a joy to ride, and feast on, all the way overnight from Chicago. Wait! Come to think of it, you can sample that nostalgic ambience again! Amtrak brings you the Three Rivers, with overnight coach and snack-car service from Chicago to Pittsburgh, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Trenton, Newark, and New York! Ahhh, the good old days! Ain't it nice to have them back? Dan Cupper cupper@ibm.net John 1:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: IHC Passenger Cars Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 08:33:46 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1381 Following Harold McGhee's (sp.?) report of out-of-production IHC cars, I raced around looking for sources in the channel. I may have found some. I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I had e-mailed my passenger info standby, Andy Miller, with some questions but haven't heard back. Maybe the list can help. How good is the paint job and car accuracy on the following IHC models: 6613 SS PRR "Blue Rapids" two-tone gray for "Overland Route" service 6619 SS PRR "Buffalo Rapids" two-tone gray for "Overland Route" service How good is the paint job and car accuracy on the following IHC models, and are the cars prototypical? What are the prototypical classes?: 6860 CS Grill "FoM" 2-tone tuscan 6861 CS Coach "FoM" 2-tone tuscan 6863 CS Observation "FoM" 2-tone tuscan --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:17:15 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: PB-70 FOM Content-Length: 1018 Dan Cupper wrote: >Effective Oct. 26, 1958, 51 was discontinued (though 39 continued to run >NY-Cleveland for a few more years) but the eastbound 50 continued to >operate, with its Admiral name intact, through Penn Central and right up >to Amtrak day, May 1, 1971. I saw it many times as it stopped in >Lewistown (while I was a Penn State student) a little after 9 a.m. Dan, I remember this train quite well, too. I would usually see it further west, near Tyrone. I often wondered why it ran only as an eastbound, that is, why PRR or PC didn't discontinue it altogether. Any thoughts? Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 06 Jan 98 09:04:39 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: FOM Photos Content-Length: 1594 Dick Ross wrote: > New PRR "Steam Year >Vol 2" has a pre WW II shot of St Louis Terminal on Page 100 - showing FOM >scheme on many cars - including a combine Thanks, Dick! Yes, I HAD seen the FOM scheme as applied to a combine -- I believe there's a shot of a 'betterment' combine in the FOM scheme in Wayner's PRR Passenger and Freight Photo and Diagram book, out of print. I was looking more specifically for straight baggage and/or postal cars in FOM. It may be that the original FOM trains didn't carry a lot of head end cars, besides combines. Or PRR simply didn't repaint them in FOM -- seems these types of cars got shuffled around much more than 'assigned' consists of trains. So much to learn about the PRR, so little time! -- Doug Drew >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: PRRT&HS Convention Locale for 2002 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 11:00:38 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1053 The 1999 PRRT&HS Convention is being held in Altoona to celebrate 150 years since the first revenue stop there. That got me thinking... Perhaps the convention should return to the Harrisburg area in 2002 to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Rockville Bridge!!! Would be an ideal time for an excursion train over the bridge, don't you think? Will K4 #1361 be ready? Could the "cyber chapter" be the host? Think of the possibilities!!! 8-) --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:29:30 -0600 (CST) From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr." Subject: Requesting recommendation on video Content-Length: 882 I received a flyer for Penn Valley Pictures advertising 6 videos of PRR action - The Ore Train (4 I-1's pulling a 100 car train); The S&L Story; Railfan Excursion to NOrthumberland, PA; The Middle Division; The Susquehanna Division of the PRR; Under the Catenary. Can anyone provide information about the quality of these videos. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: K4 License Plates Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 10:18:44 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1061 Got the new issue of "The Milepost", the newsletter of the Friends of the Railroad Museum (Strasburg) yesterday. In it they announce plans to release a Pennsylvania License Plate which supports the museum. The art was just approved by the museum and is now off to the state for final approval. The art is Grif Teller's "Broadway Meets The Dawn" painting, showing a K-4 pulling the "Broadway Limited". So, how many license plates can I put on my car? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ARR JERRY Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:51:11 EST Subject: PRR SIGNALS Content-Length: 775 Hi Y'all, A company called Amos..... or simular has been recommended to me as a very good supplier of PRR signals. Located in St. Louis, they build to specs, ect. I have had little help from the phone co. or Web. Does anyone have the snail address or phone # for this company. Thanks-PRR FOREVER Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: PRR Position Lights in HO.... Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 13:20:32 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 5070 >Hi Y'all, >A company called Amos..... or simular has been recommended to me as a very >good supplier of PRR signals. Located in St. Louis, they build to specs, ect. >I have had little help from the phone co. or Web. >Does anyone have the snail address or phone # for this company. > Thanks-PRR FOREVER > Jerry I found this in my old mail.... (Amos is the name of the person running the company!) Rob ------- forwarded message.... Hi, A few people on the list asked for more info or for a copy of the flier for the PRR position lights. Well here it is... Sorry for the crude ascii art for the backgrounds. Backgrounds 1,7,9,10,11,13, and 18 are round backgrounds. Backgrounds 2,3,4,5,6,8,14, and 15 have the sides chopped off. Backgrounds 12,16 and 17 have a small oval background just around the three lights. Hopefully this is relatively clear to everyone! I don't think there are any typos... (The two signal styles with the same part # are copied from the flier.. Guess you have to write a note with the order. (By the way I don't have any connection w/ the Signal Depot. Just like their products!) Rob - ----------------------------------------------------------- Pennsylvania Railroad Position Lights from the Signal Depot Signal Styles Available (not including background): 4061 Short Ground Signal with standard ARA style base: ............$22.00 4062 Short Ground Signal with single relay case: ..................$30.00 4062 Short Ground Signal with duplex relay case: ..................$30.00 4001 Tall Ground Signal with standard ARA style base: .............$25.00 4002 Bridge Deck Signal: ..........................................$12.00 4003 Bridge Truss Signal: ......................................... $7.00 Background Styles Available: ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ / X \ / X \ / X \ / X \ / \ / \ / X \ / \ / \ / \ | | |X | | X| |X X| |X | / X\ | X| /X X\ none ( X X X ) | X | | X | | X | | X | | X | ( X ) | X | ( X ) \ / | | | X| |X | |X X| | X| \X / |X | \X X/ \_X_/ \_X_/ \_X_/ \_X_/ \_ _/ \___/ \_X_/ \___/ \___/ 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 ___ ___ _ ___ ___ ___ ___ / \ / X \ /X\ / X \ / X \ / X \ -- -- / X \ / \ /X X\ | | / X\ |X X| |X | /X/ \X\ / X\ ( X X X ) ( X X X ) |X| ( X X X )| X | |X X X| /X/ \X\ ( X ) X \ / \X X/ | | \X / |X X| | X| /X/ \X\ \X / \___/ \_X_/ \X/ \_X_/ \_X_/ \_X_/ -- -- \_X_/ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Background Prices - Number of Lamps in Background 0 1 2 3 5 7 9 N/C $3.00 $4.00 $6.00 $10.00 $14.00 $18.00 Explanation of signal part numbering system: PPPP-UU-LL*-T-F PPPP - four digit number for pole style UU - Background for "A' arm; LL - Background for "B" arm; * - insert R for red lamps of "A" arm horiz. T - finial type; G=Ogive, C=Plain F - paint finish; B= Black, S= Silver/Black Example - 40611314RGS ... Short ground signal with 4013 background on "A" arm (red lamps on horizontal), 4014 background on "B" arm, ogive finial, signal "Grimy Black" and "Antique Silver". total price: $50.00 + shipping. Shipping charges Under $100 - $4.00 over $100 - N/C - ------ Signal Bridges... Available June 1997 Number of Tracks 2 3 4 5 6 Standard Signal Bridge $80 $105 $130 $155 $180 Lines West, Style 1 $110 $140 $170 N/A N/A Lines West, Style 2 $100 $130 $160 N/A N/A Lines West, Style 3 $105 $135 $165 N/A N/A Shipping charges: <$150 - $5.00 (Amount over actual UPS charge refunded) >$150 - N/C - ------ PRR dwarf signals coming soon. B&O & N&W position light signals also available... - ------ The Signal Depot 23 N. Hillview Drive St. Peters, MO 63376 They also make electronic items to drive the signals but I don't have the sheet on those here. ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Requesting recommendation on video Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:24:52 -0600 Content-Length: 1050 Donald E. Harper, Jr. wrote: "I received a flyer for Penn Valley Pictures advertising 6 videos of PRR action - The Ore Train (4 I-1's pulling a 100 car train); The S&L Story; Railfan Excursion to NOrthumberland, PA; The Middle Division; The Susquehanna Division of the PRR; Under the Catenary. Can anyone provide information about the quality of these videos." Don, I found the S&L Story of an H9 run on this branchline fascinating, even charming as this is a phase of PRR not always covered. The Middle Division and Susquehanna Division are excellent. I think all three are indispensable to a Pennsy fan. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVPedro Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:38:07 EST Subject: Re- Ore Train Content-Length: 458 I agree with Claus Schlund's remarks on Ore Train ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: TANGENT-MS Explorer 4.0/Mac Warning Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 15:39:18 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 992 This is definitely NOT pertinent to the PRR, but I know a lot of the subscribers are Mac users. I just downloaded the final version of Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 for the Mac and had considerable trouble getting it to work. Now it works, but it is excrutiatingly slow. My advice as a systems administrator: Don't upgrade to 4.0. Stick with 3.x or another browser. Enough said. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: PRR signs Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:23:36 -0600 Content-Length: 1106 There have been several mentions of PRR sign sources. For those who are unaware of them, Signs Galore in Palm Beach, Florida, has many printed sign sheets which are easily mounted to .005 styrene. There are three PRR sheets available. No keystone type station signs, but plain and other signs are available. I mounted some and cut out crossbucks and placed on my module at a crossing. Look great compared to the usual overscale types available. And besides, with my buildings and watertower in Pennsy colors and those Pennsy crossbucks and Eastern hills scenery, my module was an oasis for SPFs in Wisconsin. Signs galore is at http://www.tttrains.com/signsgalore/#index/ Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: Locos Content-Length: 862 Hello folks.... Just got my locos from Mr.Helms today....both very nice... (Kato-NW-2 No.3909 and LL P2000 E-7b no. 5852) still in the boxes and with the waranty cards...I recommend Mr. Helms stuff if anyone is interested...I still have his E-mail and snail mail address's if needed..(deleted the list he gave out though.) PRR and PRR modelers on the net....whatta country!...LOL H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 19:58:13 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1633 As has been discussed over the past few days, it's getting very hard to find IHC passenger cars as they are all out of production. More may be made eventually, but there is an international legal battle over it and it will be awhile. IHC still has a few available direct. I have found a source for a few others, but unfortunately the price is $23 each. The following are available: PRR THROUGH SERVICE & SPECIALTY CARS: 6613 Roomette "Blue Rapids" (Class PS106) 6619 Roomette "Buffalo Rapids" (Class PS106) PRR "CONGRESSIONAL/SENATOR": 6733 Observation, "George Washington" PRR "FLEET OF MODERNISM" (2-TONE TUSCAN): 6860 Grill, #4501 (Class D82R) 6861 Coach, #4010 (Class P82R) 6863 Observation, #1126 (Class POC85R) These are the same cars as Rivarossi's, but with different road numbers. All orders must be prepaid. Shipping is $5 total per order, continental USA only. Make checks payable to "Desktop Solutions" and send to same at P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:17:31 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Passenger Register page Content-Length: 1227 I was able to put 1 column of 1 page of the March 1943 Official Register of Passenger Equipment for the PRR on a web page. I really don't have decent OCR software, and it is currently there as a JPEG - a 744 KB jpeg. I'm not sure how long it will be there, but if y'all (habit from living in Texas, and somewhat usefull) could take a look and give me comments, I'd appreciate it. See if y'all think this is a useful endeavour, or maybe one of you has a better method/idea for putting this stuff up. There are about 5 pages total for the PRR in 1943. For 1953, there are more like 10. Be patient, as it will take some time to arrive - if any one has better ideas, I'm very open to them. The web site is: http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/col1.html (it is case specific) Thanks, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: Fw: Saved PRR class B-6sa Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:19:28 -0500 Content-Length: 2975 I wrote the following about PRR class B-6sa # 60, to Rich Orr on 3 Jan 98. I Since it may be of interest to others, I thought it should be forwarded to PRR-Talk. Carl P. Izzo ---------- > From: Carl Izzo > To: SUVCWORR@aol.com > Subject: Saved PRR class B-6sa > Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 8:51 PM > > Rich: > > Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but house guests, the Holidays and time for > archival retrieval prevented it. By now most people know where the 0-6-0 > is; I can tell you where it was. The following is a history lesson > involving the PRRT&HS: > > In early 1980, someone in the Pittsburgh Chapter PRRT&HS mentioned in a > meeting that there was a PRR engine in Cheswick, PA. After investigating, > we found it to be true. The Cemline Corporation, a manufacutere of hot > water tanks bought PRR class B-6sa #60 for use as a steam supply boiler. > Their plant stands along old route 28, practically beneath the B&LERR > Allegheny River bridge, which is beside the Pennsylvania Turnpike bridge. > > The engine and tender were delivered to their plant siding whose switch was > north of the plant, practically in line with the river dam. The engine was > moved through the plant to outside the south side of the building. When we > first saw it, there was corrosion of the sheet metal, but it was deemed > worth salvaging. > > In a proposal to Cemline, we offered them $4000.00, its scrap value, for > the engine and tender to be removed within a certain time. Since the > Pgh.Chapt. did not have the funds, we petitioned the national organization. > Jim Lynch, whom as you already know is an attorney, drew up a contract and > sent it with a $1000.00 deposit to Cemline. Pgh. Chapter members spent > hours clearing not only brush, but trees some of which grew up through the > tender. All for naught, because concurrent planing for removal failed > within the time constraints. > > Since the switch for the Cemline siding had been removed, the engine and > tender had to be moved using bulldozers and cranes, which would have been > available to us. On the other hand, Conrail would not cooperate because > they were reluctant to put a "twist" in their signal lines, unless they > were reimbursed. Since the total costs would have been in the tens of > thousands and we got no financial help from other organizations, the > PRRT&HS abandonded the project, lost the $1000.00 deposit, and the > equipment went to Delaware. > > Carl P. Izzo > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:34:14 -0500 From: "David J. Wartell" Subject: Re: K4 License Plates Content-Length: 730 >Got the new issue of "The Milepost", the newsletter of the Friends of the >Railroad Museum (Strasburg) yesterday. > Ah, the US Postal Service. We live about 15-20 miles apart and you always receive your magazines about one week ahead of me. How much do you bribe them? Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: SALE- Rivarossi Passenger Cars Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:37:21 -0500 Content-Length: 785 For anyone interested, I have ONE extra PRR smooth side sleeper - Huron Rapids. No box, extra weight added, KD couples on truck mounted KD bolsters. $15 plus postage. Also for those willing to roll their own, ONE extra UP coach and ONE extra UP sleeper. Both smooth side in box. NMRA couplers. $15 each plus postage. Email wgripp@prius@jnj.com if interested. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:58:28 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: New Accumate couplers coming soon. Content-Length: 1466 I e-mailed Accurail thanking them for sponsoring KC. It's been less than a year since I've become interested in the hobby, so my opinion isn't as educated as most of yours, but I think their cars look really nice, especially considering how inexpensive they are. As to how prototypical they are, well, that's for you rivet counters to decide. Anyway, since I'm new and don't have a million cars with Kaydees, and since I like the idea of someone new challenging an entrenched standard, I tried Accumates on my cars. They're a simple design that seems to work just fine. In my e-mail, I requested that they produce different shank styles, and was told that a "medium shank" will be released this winter, and a "long shank" in the summer. I would assume that means that the existing couplers are the shortest. I was thinking more along the lines of offset couplers & shorter couplers for A&B units and passenger cars, but I'm sure there are many applications for the longer ones as well. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:39:41 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Nelson Subject: Radio call (W8PRR) Content-Length: 886 I wonder if any other list readers are ham radio operators? If so, you might be interested in my new call sign, W8PRR. It was issued yesterday under the vanity call program. Old call for 17yrs was KA8OFZ. For those who are not hams, the vanity program give hams the chance to request calls they wish as long as they meet rule requirments. The "W" shows that the call is in the United States, the "8" shoes the eight call area, and the rest you should understand! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 08 Jan 98 09:11:39 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Content-Length: 8766 --====55564954525253495649===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" For those within driving distance of West Springfield, Massachusetts, I remind everyone that the Amherst Railway Society Big Railroad Hobby Show is Jan. 31-Feb. 1, at the Eastern States Exposition grounds in the above town. This is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, train shows in the country (and, I might add, TRAINS ONLY -- no dollhouses, Beanie Babies, etc.), and if you're looking for Rivarossi/IHC PRR passenger cars not on Jerry's list, and virtually anything else that is or was made as a railroad model, this is probably the place to find them. Get there early on Saturday, be prepared to stand in line outdoors for a considerable time to get in, and bring lots of cash. Many dealers don't accept personal checks or credit cards at the show, and there are many non-dealer types renting tables to sell off their excess equipment -- buyer beware, I have been scammed with less-than-fully operable equipment sold by non-dealers at near full-retail. There were portable ATMs on the grounds last year, for those who have blown their wad yet HAVE to make that one last purchase... ARS has a web site, www.amherstrail.org, where details about the show, directions, ticket prices, the gigantic modular layout they have there every year, local attractions for the distaff side of your relationship, etc. The show is easy to get to, via the Mass. Turnpike (I-90) or I-91. And yes, I am a member of the Amherst Railway Society, and will be working at the show as an unpaid volunteer. Please forgive this spam, but the West Springfield show will probably be your best opportunity to find those obscure models or railroadiana you're looking for, all at one site. -- Doug Drew Jerry wrote: >As has been discussed over the past few days, it's getting very hard to >find IHC passenger cars as they are all out of production. More may be >made eventually, but there is an international legal battle over it and >it will be awhile. > >IHC still has a few available direct. I have found a source for a few >others, but unfortunately the price is $23 each. > >The following are available: > >PRR THROUGH SERVICE & SPECIALTY CARS: >6613 Roomette "Blue Rapids" (Class PS106) >6619 Roomette "Buffalo Rapids" (Class PS106) > >PRR "CONGRESSIONAL/SENATOR": >6733 Observation, "George Washington" > >PRR "FLEET OF MODERNISM" (2-TONE TUSCAN): >6860 Grill, #4501 (Class D82R) >6861 Coach, #4010 (Class P82R) >6863 Observation, #1126 (Class POC85R) > >These are the same cars as Rivarossi's, but with different road numbers. >All orders must be prepaid. Shipping is $5 total per order, continental >USA only. Make checks payable to "Desktop Solutions" and send to same at >P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319. > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====55564954525253495649===1 Subject: P2K PA's in PRR Livery Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 10:37:50 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1116 A source has told me that the second run of Proto 2000 PA's will include PRR units! No time frame as yet. Probably late spring. PRR E7's in Dark Green Locomotive Enamel are still on track for late February/early March. Two A units and two B units. As for recent models, distribution (wholesale) channels are largely out of Tuscan E7's as well as all three GP9's. They are still available through many mail order houses and hobby shops, but these outlets will NOT be able to reorder. Get 'em while you can! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 8:48:21 -0600 Subject: Radio call (W8PRR) -Reply Content-Length: 453 Love your call sign. 73's from KB5RPN ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: "Overland Route" Service Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 11:15:50 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1182 In conjunction with the C&NW, UP, and SP, the PRR provided cars for use in the "Overland Route" for many years. Several cars were painted two-tone grey for use in this service. We recently discussed "Blue Rapids" and "Buffalo Rapids" as examples. The New York to the west participation lasted for many years. However, the Washington, D.C. to the west participation lasted only two years or so. The New York cars were carried on the PRR's "The Admiral" train. Does anyone know which train carried the Washington cars? I believe Washington service was circa 1950-1953. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: "Eagle" Service to Washington DC Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 11:21:11 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 728 Anyone know which PRR train to Baltimore/Washington carried the sleepers used for through service with the MoPac's "Eagle" service? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: Overland Route Service Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 11:51:33 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1725 On 1/8/98 12:29 PM, Doug Drew (ddrew@channing-bete.com) wrote: >I'll guess the Liberty Limited. We're there other "limiteds" that took >the roundabout route from D.C. to Chicago, via Harrisburg? Definitely "Liberty Limited" and "Red Arrow" to Chicago. Not sure off hand of the destination of the "Pennsylvania Limited" or the "Gotham Limited"; were they Chicago or St. Louis? Suppose the cars could have been on any Harrisburg to Baltimore/Washington consist and transfered to/from "The Admiral" at Harrisburg. > >Any idea why 'The Admiral' got to carry the through cars, vs. any of the >other multitude of NY-Chicago limiteds? Scheduling, I assume. How was this >transfer of cars conducted, if PRR used Union Station and C&NW used North >Western depot? I'm not familiar with Chicago geography -- were these two >stations close to one another, so it was a simple switching move to >transfer the cars? I agree that scheduling was probably the reason. A little bit of info is available in Blardone and Tilp's "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Equipment Painting & Lettering" available from the PRRT&HS. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 08 Jan 98 11:29:20 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Overland Route Service Content-Length: 5274 --====53565653485349525556===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" I'll guess the Liberty Limited. We're there other "limiteds" that took the roundabout route from D.C. to Chicago, via Harrisburg? Any idea why 'The Admiral' got to carry the through cars, vs. any of the other multitude of NY-Chicago limiteds? Scheduling, I assume. How was this transfer of cars conducted, if PRR used Union Station and C&NW used North Western depot? I'm not familiar with Chicago geography -- were these two stations close to one another, so it was a simple switching move to transfer the cars? Jerry_Britton wrote: >In conjunction with the C&NW, UP, and SP, the PRR provided cars for use >in the "Overland Route" for many years. Several cars were painted >two-tone grey for use in this service. We recently discussed "Blue >Rapids" and "Buffalo Rapids" as examples. > >The New York to the west participation lasted for many years. However, >the Washington, D.C. to the west participation lasted only two years or >so. > >The New York cars were carried on the PRR's "The Admiral" train. Does >anyone know which train carried the Washington cars? > >I believe Washington service was circa 1950-1953. > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====53565653485349525556===1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:22:36 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: IHC Passenger Cars Content-Length: 611 Just cruising through ebay and found a listing for 5 IHC corrugated PRR passenger cars (Item #3946633): Miles Standish, Grill, Roomette and 2 coaches. Current bid $41.00. Good hunting. Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 15:24:35 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: Radio call (W8PRR) Content-Length: 1009 Greetings to Rick and the group (or W8PRR de KA3EJV), I'm still amazed at how many hams are railfans and visa versa. Upgraded to Extra in the Fall of 1996. Kept my original Novice call though from 19 years ago. If you get to the Altoona area, give a call on the NR3T/R (146.61- MHz). 73 de KA3EJV Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 07:39 AM 1/8/98 -0500, Rick Nelson wrote: >I wonder if any other list readers are ham radio operators? If so, you >might be interested in my new call sign, W8PRR. It was issued yesterday >under the vanity call program. Old call for 17yrs was KA8OFZ. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:28:00 -0500 From: "Bunger, James" Subject: RE: Passenger Register page Content-Length: 2278 Bob and crew, I checked out this document and found it interesting. Doing a little surfing, looked around at Bob's site. I found it very interesting. Thank you for sharing it. The find for me was an index of model rail publications going way back. Of course, I searched for PRR and found 16 pages of PRR reference material from MR and RMC magazines! I seem to recall someone asking about indexes a while ago. The address is: http://www.planetarium.com\tm\ Hope this helps! James Bunger ---------- From: Bob Webber To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Passenger Register page Date: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 8:17PM I was able to put 1 column of 1 page of the March 1943 Official Register of Passenger Equipment for the PRR on a web page. I really don't have decent OCR software, and it is currently there as a JPEG - a 744 KB jpeg. I'm not sure how long it will be there, but if y'all (habit from living in Texas, and somewhat usefull) could take a look and give me comments, I'd appreciate it. See if y'all think this is a useful endeavour, or maybe one of you has a better method/idea for putting this stuff up. There are about 5 pages total for the PRR in 1943. For 1953, there are more like 10. Be patient, as it will take some time to arrive - if any one has better ideas, I'm very open to them. The web site is: http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/col1.html (it is case specific) Thanks, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:52:50 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Lines West - Richmond, IN Content-Length: 1234 Tom V. writes: >Of course, Mark you know that the NS stills uses a rail line the PRR built in >the 1880s between Hamilton and Richmond (under a named that is inaccessible >because of that damn busted tape drive). Like the Little Miami RR heading east >from the Queen City, this line is generally another example of a single- >tracked PRR mainline. NS bought this line from Cincinnati to New Castle, Indiana. I believe it was once part of the P.C.C. & St.L. (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago, and St. Louis). BTW, I noticed on a recent trip to Richmond that traces of the G.R.&I. are still visible from I-70. > I'm not sure who's using the Panhandle main between Richmond & Indy. This line was pulled up by Conrail in the late '70s. -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Update Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 19:39:24 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1041 I have gotten numerous requests for a complete list of IHC PRR cars...available or not. Using photocopies of a catalog provided by Harold McGee (thank you), I have posted the complete list at http://www.dsop.com/merchandise/ihc.html. Other than cars that I have sources for, all others are marked "SOLD OUT". If you have sources for any of the other cars, I'd appreciate hearing from you offlist. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:33:14 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Passenger register Content-Length: 2039 As some of you have seen, my first attempt wasn't completely successful. I have sent the first page on to another member to try his luck with his software, and another may also be trying soon. My scanner can handle 9600 dpi, and millions of colors, I have two desktops that have 90 mb of memory (each), and loads of disk space - and all are on scsi2 bus. This scanner can also handle transparencies (slides), so that just adds some more to the thought process. The reason I mention that, is I think my system can handle it, but I really have to aquire and play with some decent software. If anyone has a good candidate, please don't hesitate to contact me - I will have to look at it for work (wink wink). Actually, as I am the network administrator, and I am in charge of all the neat toys at work (including multiple scanners), it really would be something I should get for work. We do get data in paper form from time to time and a good OCR package would make sense. On top of that, I do have other material that some might like to look at, and this is a decent medium for that. In addition, I have a CD burner, and, if we get the scanning part out of the way, I can create CDs with the information on it - that way you could see all the pages, quickly, and I can load more material on it (they hold over 600 mbs). So, timetables, maps, PRR magazines, and things that are in public domain can be assembled. So something to think about... I would like to make sure that there is enough interest in this information before I get too involved, I have heard from 5-6 people so far. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:35:18 EST Subject: Re: PrrCyberChap Content-Length: 478 Anything new on the Chapter or PRRMOdular? Harold Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:45:28 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Content-Length: 2062 At 07:17 PM 1/8/98 EST, you wrote: >On page 14 of the Feb 98 MR Challenger Imports shows an NP Dome Sleeper, is >this the car that you were reffering to for the PRR Southwind? > >Harold McGee >Gainesville, FL > Yep - it sure looks like it - I'm going to respond to the list as well, in case others are interested in the info.... In 1940, the PRR, L&N, ACL &FEC teamed up to start an all coach streamliner between Chicago & Miami (and I must say, after shoveling a 100 foot driveway of 8 inches of wet white stuff today, I might even think about leaving for Fla). This first train was an all coach streamliner. It was originally going to be a winter only operation - but demand was so great that it was placed in operation all year. At first it was an every third day train, in '54 it became a every other day train. It ceased operation in the '69-70 season. Pullmans were added to the train in 1949. In 1959, domes were added. These domes were NPs 4-4-4 (four double bedrooms, four single rooms & four roomettes. The stayed in NP colors and operated in the winter only. There was a dome for each train (total of two domes). They were taken off in April of '68. So, if you are modeling the PRR between Chicago & Louisville, you're in luck. In HO, I believe there is a Brass Car Sides of this car, and as Harold mentioned, Challenger is due out with the cars sometime this year. I'm not sure who else brought the car out. The Brass Car Sides, apply to the Con-Cor dome coach. One other thing, the PC also had a domeline to Miami (using B&O domes), as did the IC (using NP & MP domes). Bob Webber ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:41:26 EST Subject: Re: Lines West - Richmond, IN Content-Length: 1217 In a message dated 98-01-08 19:26:01 EST, Bob Poortinga writes: << NS bought this line from Cincinnati to New Castle, Indiana. I believe it was once part of the P.C.C. & St.L. (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago, and St. Louis). BTW, I noticed on a recent trip to Richmond that traces of the G.R.&I. are still visible from I-70. >> The Panhndle (PCC&StL) line to New Castle was part of the Cin-CHi route that ran through Anderson and Kokomo. The Indy-Terre Haute-St. Louis line went WSW from Richmond paralleling U.S. 40 through Cambridge City, Knightstown and Greenfield. The GR&I wwent north from Richmond, and the Little Miami RR and CC&IC line split at New Paris just across the Ohio Stae line, for a total of six PRR lines converging at Richmond, five which carried varnish. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: "Merchandise Service" car in passenger consist Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 21:54:32 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1235 On 12/7/97 2:33 PM, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL (kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL) wrote: >For your information the local newspaper in Sunbury, PA put out a special >edition to their newspaper on 25 November. Its a 32 page supplement >entitled, "History in the making - -Trains". 75-80% of it deals with the I received this today. Cost me $3. Not bad. I bring it up 'cause there's a photo of something that we previously discussed and said that it never happened: There's a "Merchandise Service" car with the other head end cars of a passenger train!!! Power is a T-1. I'll scan and post shortly. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:47:32 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Through Train service - West of the Miss. Content-Length: 1241 Some information that I think has passed through, but not sure: May 6, 1923, Washington Broadway Limited started Sept. 27 1925 renamed Liberty Limited March 31, 1946 NYC-LA - PRR;C&NW;UP March 31, 1946 NYC-LA - PRR AT&SF March 31, 1946 NYC-SF - PRR;C&NW;UP March 31, 1946 WA - SF - PRR;C&NW;UP April 1 1946 NYC-SF - PRR;CB&Q;D&RGW;WP June 2 1946 NYC-LA - PRR;CRI&P;SP June 2, 1946 WA-LA - PRR;C&NW;UP July 7, 1946 Sunshine Special - NYC-TX - PRR;MP July 7, 1946 Sunshine Special - WA-TX - PRR;MP July 7, 1946 NYC-OK-TX - PRR;Frisco;MKT Don't know if that helps at all. I also have dates for Florida, Boston, Detroit, & Montreal service as well if anyone is interested. Somewhere around here, I have a list of the cars in "pool" service (like Buffalo, Blue & Silver Rapids) with their paint schemes. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Overland Route Service From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:59:16 EST Content-Length: 6596 I'm not sure about the switching arrangements, however the Milwaukee Road trackage coming out of CUS passes under the throat of Northwestern. If you are on foot the quickest way from CUS ro Northwestern is to walk straight out one of the Milwaukee suburban platforms to the far concourse, surface, cross the street, and enter Northwestern. The eastern most track at CUS runs through and I would imagine that there is some kind of track connection between the Milwaukee and Northwestern. ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On 08 Jan 98 11:29:20 -0500 Doug Drew writes: >--====53565653485349525556===1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" > >I'll guess the Liberty Limited. We're there other "limiteds" that took >the roundabout route from D.C. to Chicago, via Harrisburg? > >Any idea why 'The Admiral' got to carry the through cars, vs. any of >the >other multitude of NY-Chicago limiteds? Scheduling, I assume. How was >this >transfer of cars conducted, if PRR used Union Station and C&NW used >North >Western depot? I'm not familiar with Chicago geography -- were these >two >stations close to one another, so it was a simple switching move to >transfer the cars? > >Jerry_Britton wrote: >>In conjunction with the C&NW, UP, and SP, the PRR provided cars for >use >>in the "Overland Route" for many years. Several cars were painted >>two-tone grey for use in this service. We recently discussed "Blue >>Rapids" and "Buffalo Rapids" as examples. >> >>The New York to the west participation lasted for many years. >However, >>the Washington, D.C. to the west participation lasted only two years >or >>so. >> >>The New York cars were carried on the PRR's "The Admiral" train. Does > >>anyone know which train carried the Washington cars? >> >>I believe Washington service was circa 1950-1953. >> >>--------------------------------------------------- >>Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >>Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >>Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". >--====53565653485349525556===1 Subject: Re: Overland Route Service From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:59:16 EST Content-Length: 2819 Based on my August 59 Official Guide the RED ARROW ran New York => Toledo with a Washington Section. It was combined with THE GENERAL east of Crestline. Most of the east west name trains had Washington sections which split at Harrisburg. >From an operations standpoint the driving force for what train a through car would be handled on would be the connection schedule. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Thu, 8 Jan 98 11:51:33 -0400 Jerry_Britton writes: >On 1/8/98 12:29 PM, Doug Drew (ddrew@channing-bete.com) wrote: > >>I'll guess the Liberty Limited. We're there other "limiteds" that >took >>the roundabout route from D.C. to Chicago, via Harrisburg? > >Definitely "Liberty Limited" and "Red Arrow" to Chicago. Not sure off >hand of the destination of the "Pennsylvania Limited" or the "Gotham >Limited"; were they Chicago or St. Louis? Suppose the cars could have >been on any Harrisburg to Baltimore/Washington consist and transfered >to/from "The Admiral" at Harrisburg. >> >>Any idea why 'The Admiral' got to carry the through cars, vs. any of >the >>other multitude of NY-Chicago limiteds? Scheduling, I assume. How was >this >>transfer of cars conducted, if PRR used Union Station and C&NW used >North >>Western depot? I'm not familiar with Chicago geography -- were these >two >>stations close to one another, so it was a simple switching move to >>transfer the cars? > >I agree that scheduling was probably the reason. A little bit of info >is >available in Blardone and Tilp's "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger >Equipment Painting & Lettering" available from the PRRT&HS. > > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 01:27:53 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Headlamp Placement Content-Length: 1110 Greetings to the group, Perhaps this is a silly question, but does anyone know the reason for the alternate placement of headlamps? It seems that here in the East the lamps were placed above the smoke box, while in the West they were placed in the center of the smoke box. What was the significance of this? an example picture of a "Pennsylvania Lines" H-10 is on my website and also posted on alt.binaries.pictures.rail --Chris _______ ____________\ /____________ __________\ P /__________ ___________\ R R /___________ ____________\ /____________ _____________\___/_____________ Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://www.eclipse.net/~cobrandt/ ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:10:46 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Headlamp Placement Content-Length: 2554 Chris Brandt wrote >Greetings to the group, >Perhaps this is a silly question, but does anyone know the reason for >the alternate placement of headlamps? It seems that here in the East the >lamps were placed above the smoke box, while in the West they were >placed in the center of the smoke box. >What was the significance of this? Well, I WAS going to go off on a tangent about "old" vs "new" front ends, but after looking at your picture, that isn't what you meant is it? I hadn't noticed the centered smokebox front lamps - how long did those last (1920's?). For those of you wondering about "old" vs "new" fronts, the style of the front end of many PRR steam locomotives changed in the late 1940's. Originally, electric headlights were on a bracket above and in front of the smokebox, with the dynamo mounted just behind. The "new" front end swapped these locations with the dynamo lowered on the smokebox front so as not to interfere with the lamp, and a platform added to the lower smokebox front for service personell to use to reach the dynamo. Often, a cast pilot was added at the same time. Examples at the RR Mus of PA of the "old" arrangement are the H10s and E6 and examples of the "new" arrangement are the L1, M1, and K4. (photos at Wes Barris' site: www.arc.umn.edu/%7Ewes/pennsy/rmop/rmop.html) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:02:28 -0600 Content-Length: 849 A reminder to midwesterners that the Great MIdwest Train Show at DuPage Fairgrounds, Wheaton, Illinois, held on second Sunday of each month, has some of these cars around. Also, I see them on return shelves at Walthers Terminal Hobby Shop during my visits --will post any I see on the list. In fact I seem to recall seeing some a few weeks ago in Tuscan, but they might have been the vistadome set. Bob Zoeller Fox Point, Wisconsin ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:14:27 EST Subject: Re: Overland Route Service Content-Length: 491 The Pennsylvania Limited and Gotham Limited were both NY - Chi trains. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: "Merchandise Service" car in passenger consist Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:18:06 -0600 Content-Length: 827 Jerry wrote: "I bring it up 'cause there's a photo of something that we previously discussed and said that it never happened: There's a "Merchandise Service" car with the other head end cars of a passenger train!!! Power is a T-1. I'll scan and post shortly." Yup, I've seen a photo and possibly a scene in a video, too, and really wondered about how steamlines were handled. Anyone know? Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:28:08 -0600 Content-Length: 1097 Bob Webber wrote: "In HO, I believe there is a Brass Car Sides of this car, and as Harold mentioned, Challenger is due out with the cars sometime this year. I'm not sure who else brought the car out. The Brass Car Sides, apply to the Con-Cor dome coach. " There was a previous brass import --had a guy offer to sell me one a few years ago, but his price required a second mortgage. At the time, I was in my Conrail Today modeling mode and wanted it for the Amtrak Capitol Limited. I wasn't into the details enough at the time, so I am not sure if the Amtrak car was the same one or was a coach or lounge version--not an area of expertise for me by a long shot. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:40:39 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Headlamp Placement Content-Length: 898 Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > >...Often, a cast pilot was added at the same time... > Actually, the solid pilots were fabricated (welded), not cast. One reason for this choice in industry (cast vs. welded) was explained to me by a manufacturing engineer at GE, discussing steam turbine housings: Different metals can be used for different parts of the welded assembly, allowing stronger metals in some locations and less expensive metals in others. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Blue Rapids Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:43 -0600 Content-Length: 884 In checking my Rivarossi car, the two-tone gray paint scheme looks accurate compared to page 85 of the Painting Guide. There is a puzzle to me on the accuracy of this car for a 10-6. One side appears OK compared to the Pullman-Standard Volume 4. On the other side the Rivarossi car appears to be missing one small (restroom?) window. This may be accurate for other 10-6's delivered to other railroads, or for 10-6s delivered to the PRR in another batch. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Blue Rapids Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 14:10:10 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1607 On 1/9/98 1:57 PM, Bob Zoeller (bob@amsignal.com) wrote: >In checking my Rivarossi car, the two-tone gray paint scheme looks >accurate compared to page 85 of the Painting Guide. >There is a puzzle to me on the accuracy of this car for a 10-6. One side >appears OK compared to the Pullman-Standard Volume 4. On the other side >the Rivarossi car appears to be missing one small (restroom?) window. >This may be accurate for other 10-6's delivered to other railroads, or for >10-6s delivered to the PRR in another batch. I don't know the answer here exactly. What I do know is this: There was one group of 10-6's all of which were for "through service" with other roads. All but three were painted two-tone blue for MoPac service on the "Eagle". "Buffalo Rapids" and "Blue Rapids" were two-tone grey for "Overland Route" service. "Huron Rapids" was destined for "Eagle" service but was quickly repainted Tuscan, renamed, and diverted to general service. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:14:00 -0500 From: "Bunger, James" Subject: FW: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Content-Length: 4679 Doug and crew, I agree with your assesment! This show is HUGH. Last year I attended Sunday afternoon and thankfully did not meet with any lines. I must have spent 5 hours there and got to see about 60-70% of the offerings and maybe 25% in any level of detail. Amtrak, Conrail (sorry!), some of the locals and tourist railroads were represented. Question: Across the street is part of the West Springfield rail yard. The times I have been there I have only observed rolling stock and never any movements. Do you (or anyone else) have any information as to the lcoation of the engine terminal/main line/vantage points/schedules, just in case the line is too long! Many thanks, James Bunger ---------- From: Doug Drew To: Merchandise Announce; Jerry; PRR-Talk Subject: RE: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 9:11AM For those within driving distance of West Springfield, Massachusetts, I remind everyone that the Amherst Railway Society Big Railroad Hobby Show is Jan. 31-Feb. 1, at the Eastern States Exposition grounds in the above town. This is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, train shows in the country (and, I might add, TRAINS ONLY -- no dollhouses, Beanie Babies, etc.), and if you're looking for Rivarossi/IHC PRR passenger cars not on Jerry's list, and virtually anything else that is or was made as a railroad model, this is probably the place to find them. Get there early on Saturday, be prepared to stand in line outdoors for a considerable time to get in, and bring lots of cash. Many dealers don't accept personal checks or credit cards at the show, and there are many non-dealer types renting tables to sell off their excess equipment -- buyer beware, I have been scammed with less-than-fully operable equipment sold by non-dealers at near full-retail. There were portable ATMs on the grounds last year, for those who have blown their wad yet HAVE to make that one last purchase... ARS has a web site, www.amherstrail.org, where details about the show, directions, ticket prices, the gigantic modular layout they have there every year, local attractions for the distaff side of your relationship, etc. The show is easy to get to, via the Mass. Turnpike (I-90) or I-91. And yes, I am a member of the Amherst Railway Society, and will be working at the show as an unpaid volunteer. Please forgive this spam, but the West Springfield show will probably be your best opportunity to find those obscure models or railroadiana you're looking for, all at one site. -- Doug Drew Jerry wrote: >As has been discussed over the past few days, it's getting very hard to >find IHC passenger cars as they are all out of production. More may be >made eventually, but there is an international legal battle over it and >it will be awhile. > >IHC still has a few available direct. I have found a source for a few >others, but unfortunately the price is $23 each. > >The following are available: > >PRR THROUGH SERVICE & SPECIALTY CARS: >6613 Roomette "Blue Rapids" (Class PS106) >6619 Roomette "Buffalo Rapids" (Class PS106) > >PRR "CONGRESSIONAL/SENATOR": >6733 Observation, "George Washington" > >PRR "FLEET OF MODERNISM" (2-TONE TUSCAN): >6860 Grill, #4501 (Class D82R) >6861 Coach, #4010 (Class P82R) >6863 Observation, #1126 (Class POC85R) > >These are the same cars as Rivarossi's, but with different road numbers. >All orders must be prepaid. Shipping is $5 total per order, continental >USA only. Make checks payable to "Desktop Solutions" and send to same at >P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319. > >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 09 Jan 98 13:23:07 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Headlamp Placement Content-Length: 2049 I think it's safe to say that a welded pilot would have been less expensive overall to fabricate, regardless of the type of steel used. Castings required patternmaking, milling and other work requiring a foundry, machine tools and more expensive labor to bring them to final form. They were usually also heavier than a fabricated item. Castings were used mainly where the added strength inherent in a solid piece of metal (such as a locomotive frame) was required. A welded pilot required basic blacksmithing skills to build -- heating and hammering the sheets to a form, and then welding the thing together. This could be performed in the "low rent district" of the locomotive shop. Stephen Bartlett wrote: >Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: >> >>...Often, a cast pilot was added at the same time... >> > >Actually, the solid pilots were fabricated (welded), not cast. One >reason for this choice in industry (cast vs. welded) was explained to me >by a manufacturing engineer at GE, discussing steam turbine housings: >Different metals can be used for different parts of the welded assembly, >allowing stronger metals in some locations and less expensive metals in >others. > >Steve Bartlett > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:35:31 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: RE: PRR Vista Dome Sleeper Content-Length: 1546 At 11:28 AM 1/9/98 -0600, Bob Zoeller wrote: >There was a previous brass import --had a guy offer to sell me one a few years ago, but his price required a second mortgage. At the time, I was in my Conrail Today modeling mode and wanted it for the Amtrak Capitol Limited. I wasn't into the details enough at the time, so I am not sure if the Amtrak car was the same one or was a coach or lounge version--not an area of expertise for me by a long shot. > >Bob Zoeller I'm getting to the point where I owuld prefer to go back to "the good old days" where there wasn't as much detail (esp. on underbodies) and the prices were more realistic. I just can't see paying over $350 for a car. Not saying it's not worth it or that the detail isn't right, I just don't need it. Same can be said for a lot of locomotives. They seem to be made more for the collector than for the operator. So much "crap" around the running gear you need prototypicaly correct trackwork to get the thing to move - and who has room for 25 foot curves? I always did like the old Lambert & (early) Soho cars - now I'm beginning to realize why... ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 14:04:11 EST From: Subject: PRR number plates Content-Length: 692 Question? Why is it that some PRR steam locomotives have a round number plate on the smoke box (Mikados for instance) and most others have the keystone? different builders, PRR policy, different classes? I've been meaning to ask this question for some time now. Regards ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 09 Jan 98 14:04:58 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: FW: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars Content-Length: 17053 --====49565448515548515254===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" James, I agree, Sunday is usually the better of the day to go, if you hate crowds and lines. Unfortunately, most of the choice stuff is usually gone by then, too. I usually go on Sundays to limit my options, and therefore limit how much I end up spending. I usually am able to spend it all, regardless. Actually, one of the best train watching spots is on the platforms of the Springfield train station, on the opposite side of the river from West Springfield. This way you get to witness all the Amtrak moves from the south, east and west as well as the Conrail (ex-Boston & Albany) trains through town, plus CR's interchange moves with Guilford's line going north. To get there, go east on the main road that goes past the Eastern States (Memorial Avenue). Go around the rotary and over the bridge over the river. You'll come to lights. Go straight through, go under the interstate highway. There may be another set of lights at an intersection, I don't remember. This is East Columbus Avenue. Go straight through to the next set of lights. This is Main Street. Take a left and go straight, staying on Main. You'll see an arched railroad overpass looming ahead. Just before you go under the arch, take your last right. This is Lyman Street. Up the street on your left will be the entrance to the Amtrak station. This used to be the access tunnel to the REAL Springfield Union Station, now closed and decrepit. Inside, there will be a set of doors ahead on your left. Go through them and up the stairs to the Amtrak depot and waiting room at track level. Of course, Amtrak's arrivals and departures are posted on a board on the wall. The platforms are at ground-level, so it's easy to move around the station area. I've never been hassled by anyone while trainwatching there, even though I moved around the platforms and crossed over to the railroad employee parking lot (former baggage/express tracks) on the north side of the tracks. If you need a map of the area and have a web browser, go to http://city.net/countries/united_states/massachusetts/springfield/maps/ for a map than can be zoomed in on for street detail. Have fun! Bunger, James wrote: >Doug and crew, > > I agree with your assesment! This show is HUGH. Last year I attended >Sunday afternoon and thankfully did not meet with any lines. I must >have spent 5 hours there and got to see about 60-70% of the offerings >and maybe 25% in any level of detail. Amtrak, Conrail (sorry!), some of >the locals and tourist railroads were represented. > > Question: Across the street is part of the West Springfield rail >yard. The times I have been there I have only observed rolling stock >and never any movements. Do you (or anyone else) have any information >as to the lcoation of the engine terminal/main line/vantage >points/schedules, just in case the line is too long! > > Many thanks, > >James Bunger > ---------- >From: Doug Drew >To: Merchandise Announce; Jerry; PRR-Talk >Subject: RE: SALE-IHC Passenger Cars >Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 9:11AM > >For those within driving distance of West Springfield, Massachusetts, I >remind everyone that the Amherst Railway Society Big Railroad Hobby Show >is Jan. 31-Feb. 1, at the Eastern States Exposition grounds in the above >town. This is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, train shows in the >country (and, I might add, TRAINS ONLY -- no dollhouses, Beanie Babies, >etc.), and if you're looking for Rivarossi/IHC PRR passenger cars not on >Jerry's list, and virtually anything else that is or was made as a >railroad model, this is probably the place to find them. > >Get there early on Saturday, be prepared to stand in line outdoors for a >considerable time to get in, and bring lots of cash. Many dealers don't >accept personal checks or credit cards at the show, and there are many >non-dealer types renting tables to sell off their excess equipment -- >buyer beware, I have been scammed with less-than-fully operable >equipment sold by non-dealers at near full-retail. There were portable >ATMs on the grounds last year, for those who have blown their wad yet >HAVE to make that one last purchase... > >ARS has a web site, www.amherstrail.org, where details about the show, >directions, ticket prices, the gigantic modular layout they have there >every year, local attractions for the distaff side of your relationship, >etc. The show is easy to get to, via the Mass. Turnpike (I-90) or I-91. > >And yes, I am a member of the Amherst Railway Society, and will be >working at the show as an unpaid volunteer. Please forgive this spam, >but the West Springfield show will probably be your best opportunity to >find those obscure models or railroadiana you're looking for, all at one >site. > > -- Doug Drew > >Jerry wrote: >>As has been discussed over the past few days, it's getting very hard to >>find IHC passenger cars as they are all out of production. More may be >>made eventually, but there is an international legal battle over it and >>it will be awhile. >> >>IHC still has a few available direct. I have found a source for a few >>others, but unfortunately the price is $23 each. >> >>The following are available: >> >>PRR THROUGH SERVICE & SPECIALTY CARS: >>6613 Roomette "Blue Rapids" (Class PS106) >>6619 Roomette "Buffalo Rapids" (Class PS106) >> >>PRR "CONGRESSIONAL/SENATOR": >>6733 Observation, "George Washington" >> >>PRR "FLEET OF MODERNISM" (2-TONE TUSCAN): >>6860 Grill, #4501 (Class D82R) >>6861 Coach, #4010 (Class P82R) >>6863 Observation, #1126 (Class POC85R) >> >>These are the same cars as Rivarossi's, but with different road >numbers. >>All orders must be prepaid. Shipping is $5 total per order, continental >>USA only. Make checks payable to "Desktop Solutions" and send to same >at >>P.O. Box 189, #191; Etters PA 17319. >> >>----------------------------------------------- >>Jerry Britton >>"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >>----------------------------------------------- >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >>Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====49565448515548515254===1 >From: Doug Drew
>Subject: >Date: From: VVA249 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:04:33 EST Subject: Re: STEAMLINES "Merchandise Service" car in passenger consist Content-Length: 733 Unless this was a "SUMMER" photo the car, most likely, was an X-29 or rebuild that was steamline equipped - see "PRR Color Guide to Passenger and freight cars" vol 2 my NMRA reprint 1953 ORER has listings which notes large numbers of cars so equipped - if you like I will post the "ranges" of the car numbers Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:44:32 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: PRR number plates Content-Length: 2026 >Question? > >Why is it that some PRR steam locomotives have a round number plate on the >smoke box (Mikados for instance) and most others have the keystone? >different builders, PRR policy, different classes? I've been meaning to >ask this question for some time now. Answer: PRR policy. Passenger locomotives (ie classes E, G, K, T, S) generally got the Keystone number boards, while freight locos (or mixed use locos) got round boards (ie classes H, I, L, M). Exceptions exist, such as the HH-1 (ex N&W Y3 mallet) which can only be described as a freight loco, but which got Keystones! I think the J-1 which had no other redemingly PRR features also got keystones (Hey - is there a pattern to the exceptions here? non-standard PRR locos got keystones to indicate that they were really PRR?) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:55:37 EST Subject: Re: PRR number plates Content-Length: 1361 Early on all Lines east Locos had round number plates (lines West wuth centered headlights had rectangular) Starteing with - I believe E-6 (built with round plates) - Someone decided that PASSENGER Power should get the KEYSTONE plates - while FREIGHT power kept the circular plates - list is off the top of my head - Classes with Circular plates: Black or DGLE backgrounds - Brass or Yellow numbers depending on era A B C D E-2 F G1 through G4 H I L N and some Articulateds Classes with Keystone Plates RED background Brass Gold or Yellow numbers - depending on era E-6 & E-7 G-5 J-1 (dual service) K-4 K-5 M-1 (dual service) Electrics: B-1 O-1 P-5 GG-1 and some articulateds Note that there were local exceptions to this when crews designated their engines as honorary passenger locos BUT that the RED background on D-16sb at Strasburg was WRONG as far as actual service years were concerned Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 19:38:20 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Through train info Content-Length: 732 This is the first of several pages related to through train service on the PRR. Jerry may be moving this info to his site (as well as the rest of the pages). In the meantime, take a look at the following and let me know if there is interest in the rest.... Bob http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/Through1.html ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:03:05 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/09/98 Content-Length: 1302 What is this garbage anyaway ???? >> Britton <jerry@dsop.com>
>"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/
>Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings".
<< >> contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. << - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 20:15 09-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 21:39:11 -0800 From: Mark Timmerman Subject: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 573 Can anyone send me a list or even reviews of the available (new/old) HO Pennsy K4 Pacifics that have been made? Thanks mltimmerman@pol.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:59:46 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: PRR number plates Content-Length: 1121 VVA249 wrote: > > Early on all Lines east Locos had round number plates (lines West wuth > centered headlights had rectangular) > Starting with - I believe E-6 (built with round plates) - Someone decided > that PASSENGER Power should get the KEYSTONE plates - while FREIGHT power kept > the circular plates ... If I remember correctly, the box from the Spectrum K4 says that the early K4's had round number plates, while the later ones had keystones. However, it then goes on to say the prototype for the model was a 1927 Baldwin-built, and it has a round keystone (which disappointed me). Of course Bachmann is always faithful to prototypes ;-) -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:03:51 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/09/98 Content-Length: 3470 >> >FACE="Geneva" SIZE=3 COLOR="#000000">I'll guess the Liberty >Limited. We're there other "limiteds" >that took the roundabout route from D.C. >to Chicago, via Harrisburg?
>
>Any idea >why 'The Admiral' got to carry the through >cars, vs. any of the other multitude of >NY-Chicago limiteds? Scheduling, I assume. >How was this transfer of cars conducted, >if PRR used Union Station and C&NW used >North Western depot? I'm not familiar with >Chicago geography -- were these two stations >close to one another, so it was a simple >switching move to transfer the cars?
>
>Jerry_Britton >wrote:
>>In >conjunction with the C&NW, UP, and SP, >the PRR provided cars for use
>>in >the "Overland Route" for many years. >Several cars were painted
>>two-tone >grey for use in this service. We recently >discussed "Blue
>>Rapids" >and "Buffalo Rapids" as examples.
>>
>>The >New York to the west participation lasted >for many years. However,
>>the Washington, >D.C. to the west participation lasted only >two years or
>>so.
>>
>>The >New York cars were carried on the PRR's >"The Admiral" train. Does
>>anyone >know which train carried the Washington >cars?
>>
>>I believe Washington service >was circa 1950-1953.
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------
>>Jerry >Britton, SPF COLOR="#0000FF">jerry@dsop.comFACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 COLOR="#000000">
>>Visit "Keystone >Crossings" at COLOR="#0000FF">http://prr.dsop.comFACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 COLOR="#000000">
>>Home of the "PRR-Talk" >mailing list!
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>Your >company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" >and "Keystone Crossings".
>>Please >contact COLOR="#0000FF">jerry@dsop.comFACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 COLOR="#000000"> for more information. >Thank you.
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>For >assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", >send the message "help" to
>>"FACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 >COLOR="#0000FF">listserv@dsop.comFACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 COLOR="#000000">". If problems persist, >contact "COLOR="#0000FF">listmaster@dsop.comFACE="Geneva" SIZE=1 COLOR="#000000">". >--====53565653485349525556===1-- << TRYING TO READ STUFF LIKE THIS IS GIVING ME A BIG HEADACHE ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 08:57 10-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:11:31 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 1575 Mark Timmerman wrote: > > Can anyone send me a list or even reviews of the available (new/old) > HO Pennsy K4 Pacifics that have been made? > Thanks mltimmerman@pol.net > I've got the Spectrum K4, and it is nice looking but slippery. I haven't run it much (I don't have a permanent layout), but initially it would only pull 3 or 4 of the Spectrum heavyweights without slipping. Part of the problem is that the trucks on the passenger cars aren't very free-rolling -- (on mine, anyway) the sideframes appear to be slightly too far apart, so that the pointed ends of the axles aren't fully seated in the truck "dimples". For the K4, it looked to me that the drivers were too close together, so that only the edges were contacting the track. I pried them slightly farther apart (I don't have a gauge), and this (along with a bit of work on the passenger trucks) made a noticeable difference. The next thing I'll look at is the spring pressure on the front & trailing trucks. If I can reduce that without creating tracking problems it will put more weight on the drivers. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:14:25 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: PRR number plates Content-Length: 686 Jerry Shickler wrote: ... > However, it then goes on to say the prototype for the model was a 1927 > Baldwin-built, and it has a round keystone (which disappointed me). Round keystone, huh? I meant round number plates. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:14:10 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Modified, PRR number plates Content-Length: 2157 At 08:59 AM 1/10/98 -0500, Jerry Shickler wrote: >VVA249 wrote: >> >> Early on all Lines east Locos had round number plates (lines West wuth >> centered headlights had rectangular) >> Starting with - I believe E-6 (built with round plates) - Someone decided >> that PASSENGER Power should get the KEYSTONE plates - while FREIGHT power kept >> the circular plates ... > >If I remember correctly, the box from the Spectrum K4 says that the >early K4's had round number plates, while the later ones had keystones. >However, it then goes on to say the prototype for the model was a 1927 >Baldwin-built, and it has a round number plate (keystone?) (which disappointed me). What number did the Bachmann K4 carry? It should have been in the 5400 -5474 range to be a Baldwin built K4s (numbered as built). Baldwin is the only outside builder to have ever built a K4s and their 75 were numbered in this range. No matter how the K4s class started with as-built equipment, they all ended up with a Keystone number plate. Some even carried a single digit on their Keystone! You have to be modeling an early period in their service life (comparatively) to be placing round number plates on a K4s. While we are at it for early vintage, remember the balanced piston rods and cylinder extensions to go with them, large box style head lamp, various older style pilots used, no mechanical lubricator under the left running board, screw or lever reverse mechanisms (no power)and definitely different tenders. (or you could build a transition engine with an electric head lamp mounted on the original box lamp bracket, this was the original "Modernized Front End". Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:59:06 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 3679 I also have the spectrem k4, I have 5475. The problem with all bachmans is that they run like crap. That is the fact. But they look soooooo nice! I have the K4, which not longer runs because the valve gear keeped bunching up and getting messed up. (I even ordered and installed a new set, same problem) but it makes a fantastic display. I also have the N&W J and the SP daylight models. The daylight ran great once I added weight to both the engine and the tender. The J and k4 do not have room for enough weight in the body (and the k4 also had other flaws, the wheels like you said, and the valve motion problems I had), so I found the trick (which works for all bachman steamers) is to put a good running powered F or E unit behind the loco and run it with as many cars as you want. What I did is I bought a undecorated B shell for my SP A-A F unit lash up. I painted the B tuscan red and used it to power the train, with the K4 in front. Purists might not like it, but it worked great. I could use the K4 to pull 10 and 12 car trains no problem. All the K did was pull itself. I did have to add weight to the tender to keep the B unit from pushing it off the track. I now use the same setup for the J since the K no longer runs. If I wanted to run a train with the F units I'd just remove the B shell and put the A unit shell back on. If anybody asked, I said the B was being used for train power :) Most people did not even notice. I have also had many problems with the spectrum passanger cars, but that is a WHOLE other story! Tom von Trott *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/10/98, at 9:11 AM, Jerry Shickler wrote: >Mark Timmerman wrote: >> >> Can anyone send me a list or even reviews of the available (new/old) >> HO Pennsy K4 Pacifics that have been made? >> Thanks mltimmerman@pol.net >> >I've got the Spectrum K4, and it is nice looking but slippery. I haven't >run it much (I don't have a permanent layout), but initially it would >only pull 3 or 4 of the Spectrum heavyweights without slipping. Part of >the problem is that the trucks on the passenger cars aren't very >free-rolling -- (on mine, anyway) the sideframes appear to be slightly >too far apart, so that the pointed ends of the axles aren't fully seated >in the truck "dimples". For the K4, it looked to me that the drivers >were too close together, so that only the edges were contacting the >track. I pried them slightly farther apart (I don't have a gauge), and >this (along with a bit of work on the passenger trucks) made a >noticeable difference. The next thing I'll look at is the spring >pressure on the front & trailing trucks. If I can reduce that without >creating tracking problems it will put more weight on the drivers. >-- >Jerry Shickler >e-mail: geshick@velocity.net > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:06:37 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Wanted: Bachman K4 Content-Length: 1012 Wanted: A bachman spectrum k4s 1361 (or other modernized K4, number not really important) . This is really only for display purposes, since the bachmans run so badly, so I'd prefer a dead engine as to keep the cost down (I'm a college student, nuff said!) Will pay someplace in the neighborhood of $20-30+shipping for a dead locomotive. This is to match spectrum K4 5475 which I already have on display. This price might be to low, but who knows, maybe one of you guys has one they would be willing to part with for that, which unfortuantly, is all I have to spend right now. Tom von Trott ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:09:46 EST Subject: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 804 Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? What foreign road cars would be appropriate for 1900 through 1919?, 1920 through 1939? 1940 through 1949? Where did the cars enter the Pennsy system? Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. Thanks Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:26:59 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Bachmann K4 Content-Length: 1176 If I am following the E-mail on these Bachmann K4s models, then the later offering by Bachmann was touted as being a Baldwin built locomotive with the number 5475? 5475 would not have been a Baldwin built locomotive. The BLW built K4s class engines originally carried road numbers 5400 - 5474. This also accounts for the 75 engines built in this series from a PRR order to Baldwin. Common practice with some modern short lines and tourist railroads is to pass off an old engine as some other roads. Like the WM Scenic that had an Alco cab unit numbered one unit above that last of the real ones owned. Perhaps Bachmann is carrying on a newly established tradition with a BLW built 5475. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:08:44 EST Subject: Re: PRR number plates Content-Length: 531 All freight locomotives had the round number plate. Passenger and dual service locomotives had the Keystone/ Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:33:48 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Through Car & Passenger Train Info Content-Length: 1296 I have made some changes to the document - I have included years from 1923 - 1947 (as far as I go - I do have earlier). Please take a look and see if it's worthwhile. Jerry, when you have a chance, go ahead and grab it and put it on your page(s) - let me know and I'll wipe it from mine and start a new section. http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/Through1.html Thanks, Bob Webber PS I have found (with the help of a few of you) that the railroad links page does not look great under MS IE - it was built under Netscape, and I'm sure MS would have anything built that way look bad. I am looking into it, and will make it more readable under both. I'm still very much "playing" with this medium (along with the scanner - thanks for the tip to the scanning tips: http://www.cyberramp.net/~fulton/scans.html ) http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/railroad.html ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:28:20 EST Subject: Re: Modified, PRR number plates Content-Length: 848 << VVA249 wrote: >> >> Early on all Lines east Locos had round number plates (lines West wuth >> centered headlights had rectangular) >> Starting with - I believe E-6 (built with round plates) - Someone decided >> that PASSENGER Power should get the KEYSTONE plates - while FREIGHT power kept >> the circular plates ... >> However, MODERN steam engines got keystones. M, J, and _Q_ classes all had keystones. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: Request for Pennsy pics -- Help! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:21:01 -0000 Content-Length: 1819 Hello all. I'm in the processes of creating a new series of web pages dedicated to railroading on the Delmarva Peninsula. Given the interest on the PRR-Talk list and the Railroad list, on aspects of Delmarva railroading such as the car float operation, 4-4-0s operating until the late forties, speculation on the future of the Delmarva lines in a NS-CSX world, etc, I hope it is something that people will enjoy. My pages would focus on both current and past operations. This, however, brings me to a slight problem. I have tons of info, time tables, and current pics, but no pics of the Pennsy era (I wasn't even born when the merger happened, and only 4 when Conrail took over!). I have a need for two types of pictures. I am hoping some of you guys out there can help. You would receive credit for each pic in the form of a by-line attached to each picture. First, if anyone has any picture of Delmarva operations, obviously I'd love to talk to you. Second, if anyone has stock pictures of the following locomotives (at any location, not just Delmarva), I'd appreciate your help as well. The following locomotives were the most representative of the Shore: Steam: D16sb, H9s, K4s, L1s Diesel: RS-3, F-7, GP-9, RS-10, RS-12, RF-16 (sharknose), Baldwin switchers, GP30 Thanks! You can contact me off-list at the following address: Jim Hudson wjhudson@erols.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 7:56:35 EST From: Subject: Booster engines Content-Length: 711 Greetings everyone, Could someone please explain exactly what a booster engine is and how did they work? I've read many articles which refer to increased tractive effort as a result of a trailing truck booster engine. Was this feature common to PRR steam engines? Regards, Kris Kollar ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Trenton Cutoff? Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 14:11:52 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1163 I travelled to eastern PA this weekend to visit friends. On the turnpike, between the King of Prussia and Norristown exits, there is a rail line that parallels the highway, just to the south. They are closest together at the crossing of the Skylkill River (sp.). Is this the Trenton Cutoff? Below the bridges over the river there are two "main line" tracks on either bank. I am guessing those on the south/west side are the PRR line to Reading and those on the north/east are the Reading RR line to Reading. Is this correct? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:13:11 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Just GAT home... Content-Length: 785 Went to the GAT show here, and as usual, found some great deals, but not for me. Lombard Hobbies has the GP9 phase III in PRR in two numbers for $50 each. They also had E7s. They had the new PAs (and to add insult to injury all they had were the NYC an UP ones). A lot of places had the Rivarossi 4 pack passenger cars, didn't really look too hard at any of them. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:01:06 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: Bachmann K4 Content-Length: 1906 Interesting, I did not know they said it was baldwin. I have it, and all I really know about the 5475 is that is was sent fresh from altoona to the fair of the iron horse in 1927. Tom von Trott *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/10/98, at 5:26 PM, Harry W. Fitch IV wrote: >If I am following the E-mail on these Bachmann K4s models, then the later >offering by Bachmann was touted as being a Baldwin built locomotive with >the number 5475? > >5475 would not have been a Baldwin built locomotive. The BLW built K4s >class engines originally carried road numbers 5400 - 5474. This also >accounts for the 75 engines built in this series from a PRR order to >Baldwin. Common practice with some modern short lines and tourist >railroads is to pass off an old engine as some other roads. Like the WM >Scenic that had an Alco cab unit numbered one unit above that last of the >real ones owned. > >Perhaps Bachmann is carrying on a newly established tradition with a BLW >built 5475. > > > Harry W. Fitch IV >hfitch@maranatha.net > Acts 4:12 > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:17:59 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: Booster engines Content-Length: 1409 At 07:56 AM 1/11/98 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL wrote: >Greetings everyone, > >Could someone please explain exactly what a booster engine is and how did >they work? I've read many articles which refer to increased tractive >effort as a result of a trailing truck booster engine. Was this feature >common to PRR steam engines? A booster engine is a small steam engine built into the trailing truck that can be used to add tractive effort for starting heavy loads. It was usually set up to power the trailing truck axle(s) and to be cut-out at a specified speed. Their were examples of tender truck boosters as well. For years the PRR spurned such devices and then dabbled with them. One K4 had a Delta trailing truck (vs KW) so equipped that pulled the Broadway for some years. Since I am pressed for time right now, others may chime in with examples of specific applications of boosters to PRR motive power. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:17:44 EST Content-Length: 3087 Another of Professor Allen's Geography Lessons See Below [Did you happen to notice the third-rail of the Philadelphia & Western or the Chester Valley (Emmons) engine in the transfer station?] MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Sun, 11 Jan 98 14:11:52 -0400 Jerry writes: >I travelled to eastern PA this weekend to visit friends. On the turnpike, >between the King of Prussia and Norristown exits, there is a rail line >that parallels the highway, just to the south. They are closest together >at the crossing of the Skylkill River (sp.). Is this the Trenton Cutoff? Yes. PRR Trenton Branch. Now Conrail's Morrisville Line. > >Below the bridges over the river there are two "main line" tracks on >either bank. I am guessing those on the south/west side are the PRR >line to Reading and those on the north/east are the Reading RR line to >Reading. Is this correct? No, they are both Reading. The electrified track on the North /East is now Septa's Norristown Line. The other, the Reading's original Main Line, is now Conrail's Harrisburg Line. The connection to the Reading Line is about twenty miles further west. There is a connection between the two lines crossing the river west of the Norristown Transportation Center allowing the local freight from Abrams Yard to access the Stoney Creek Branch and Landsdale. This connection originally allowed passenger trains from Reading Terminal to use the Norristown Branch [and make a station stop in Norristown] then move to the Main Line rather than the rather convoluted move through the "subway" in Philadelphia and miss the Station stop. The PRR's Schulkill Branch to Reading was on the inland side of the RDG line and was essentially abandoned by the mid sixties. The remaining segments are the Blue Mountain & Reading line at the south end and Septa's Ivy Ridge Line. >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:33:55 EST Subject: Re: Booster engines Content-Length: 2492 In a message dated 98-01-11 15:06:04 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: << Could someone please explain exactly what a booster engine is and how did they work? >> According to the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia, a booster is "an auxiliary engine for driving the locomotive trailing truck wheels or tender truck wheels, thus adding to the tractive force of the locomotive. It may be engaged or disengaged as desired." Boosters were primarily used when starting a train. An ad in the Cyc for Franklin Railway Supply Company adds, "The Locomotive Booster is designed to put idle trailing or tender wheels to work by capitalizing idle weight and spare steam. The Locomotive Booster is a two- cylinder, 90 degree engine, the dimensions being controlled by the weight on the axle which it drives. Attached to the frame of the truck through a three point suspension, the Booster transmits its power to the driven axle through an idler gear which can be engaged or disengaged at the will of the operator, within the speed range of the Booster. Its speed is controlled by mechanism attached to the reverse gear quadrant so that when the cut-off of the main engine is shortened after pre-determined speed has been reached the Booster cuts out automatically. The Booster is furnished for all types of service. To meet the demand for hight pressure in advanced designs of locomotives, a new Type is provided to operate up to 350 lb. pressure and at speeds up to 35 m.p.h. It may be cut in a speeds as high as 21 m.p.h." Boosters were tried on various PRR designs, but the Pennsy prefered its engines to be able to start their trains without the extra mechanism of the booster engine. For example, a booster was fitted to L1 2-8-2 #1556, which was used on the Elmira branch. According to Caloroso, "the locomotive was not popular with the crews because they felt the booster used too much of the available steam." The J1, being a C&O design, included a booster on the trailing truck. This was the only widespread use of boosters on the PRR. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:22:37 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: K4s 5475, was Bachmann Content-Length: 1520 At 07:42 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >The information I have on it shows a pic, it is out of a reprinted PRR k4 book I bought at the RRMOPA a few years back. I have attached a scan of the page it is on. If you have ever seen the bachman model this pic or one like it was obviously used for the model, because the bachman 5475 is shiny like the new k4 in the picture. > >Tom von Trott > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** This proves the B&O catalog in error in it's record of the K4s displayed at the Centenary Exhibition in 1927. The photo that you have indeed is from the "Fair of the Iron Horse" pageant at Halethorpe Maryland in 1927. A D&H engine, John B. Jervis can be seen right behind K4s 5475. 5475 is definitely a Juniata out-shopped locomotive. Thanks for the picture! Now I wonder how many have caught the error in the B&O publication? The 3877 is no where to be seen in any of the photos that I have looked at since this E-mail. Could this have been a little poke at the Pennsy by the B&O? Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:36:55 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1206 In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:47 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: << Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? >> I can answer this one, perhaps others can tackle the other questions you raised. The PRR had G38 and G39 ore "Jennies"--short bathtub gondolas for ore service. The first of these cars was built in 1960. I remember standing on the passenger bridge at the Harrisburg station and watching a train of them move through crossovers on the freight tracks. That was probably about 1966. Before that, the PRR used hopper cars to carry ore. Ore is much heavier than coal, so the cars couldn't be filled. I understand that a small scoop of ore would be dumped over each pocket and that the car would appear empty from the side. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:38:26 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 649 In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:47 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: << Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? >> Philadelphia import pier. Also Hulett unloaders in Cleveland and Ashtabula (maybe others) were on-line to the PRR. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:41:06 -0500 From: Zeolla Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? Content-Length: 1695 Michael E. Allen wrote: > There is a connection between the two > lines crossing the river west of the Norristown Transportation Center > allowing the local freight from Abrams Yard to access the Stoney Creek > Branch and Landsdale. Not just for Stoney Creek access! This connection is used by Conrail to get its trains onto/off of the Harrisburg line coming from/to Morrisville. The double-stacks coming from NJ can't fit through the tunnel (I think Lehigh?) on the run from Kearny to Allentown, so they are routed through Trenton, over the Trenton Cutoff, through Norristown, then onto Abrams and Reading. The section of the Trenton cutoff Norristown to Paoli, while still there, is used very little. I think there's a local from Abrams to Coatsville (Lucken Steel) once a day, and thats about it. I've spent many summer evenings with my son watching the freights pass through Abrams yard. On a good night we see as many as 10 trains in the span of two or three hours. Even caught a Pennsy gondola parked there in July of last year, the best I could make out the number was 442465. It was a real treat to see it! I've also cought the Conrail executive train pass throught there, pulled by their E8's. Who did they originally belong to? Were they PRR? ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:03:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 2520 I am enjoying this thread. Could someone please tell me where Abrams Yard is. I just drove by the same lines today as I crossed the Schuylkill River. Would love to visit the Abrams Yard. Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:41:06 -0500 Zeolla writes: >Michael E. Allen wrote: >> There is a connection between the two >> lines crossing the river west of the Norristown Transportation >Center >> allowing the local freight from Abrams Yard to access the Stoney >Creek >> Branch and Landsdale. > >Not just for Stoney Creek access! This connection is used by Conrail >to >get its trains onto/off of the Harrisburg line coming from/to >Morrisville. The double-stacks coming from NJ can't fit through the >tunnel (I think Lehigh?) on the run from Kearny to Allentown, so they >are routed through Trenton, over the Trenton Cutoff, through >Norristown, >then onto Abrams and Reading. The section of the Trenton cutoff >Norristown to Paoli, while still there, is used very little. I think >there's a local from Abrams to Coatsville (Lucken Steel) once a day, >and >thats about it. > >I've spent many summer evenings with my son watching the freights pass >through Abrams yard. On a good night we see as many as 10 trains in >the >span of two or three hours. Even caught a Pennsy gondola parked there >in July of last year, the best I could make out the number was 442465. > >It was a real treat to see it! > >I've also cought the Conrail executive train pass throught there, >pulled >by their E8's. Who did they originally belong to? Were they PRR? > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:15:11 -0500 From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: K4s 5475, was Bachmann Content-Length: 2284 When did the fair start and how long did it last? According to the book I have 5475 was outshopped in September of 1927? Could the 3877 been at the fair earlier, and been replaced in September by 5475? Tom von Trott *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/11/98, at 9:22 PM, Harry W. Fitch IV wrote: >At 07:42 PM 1/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>The information I have on it shows a pic, it is out of a reprinted PRR k4 >book I bought at the RRMOPA a few years back. I have attached a scan of >the page it is on. If you have ever seen the bachman model this pic or one >like it was obviously used for the model, because the bachman 5475 is shiny >like the new k4 in the picture. >> >>Tom von Trott >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >This proves the B&O catalog in error in it's record of the K4s displayed at >the Centenary Exhibition in 1927. The photo that you have indeed is from >the "Fair of the Iron Horse" pageant at Halethorpe Maryland in 1927. A D&H >engine, John B. Jervis can be seen right behind K4s 5475. 5475 is >definitely a Juniata out-shopped locomotive. Thanks for the picture! Now >I wonder how many have caught the error in the B&O publication? > >The 3877 is no where to be seen in any of the photos that I have looked at >since this E-mail. Could this have been a little poke at the Pennsy by the >B&O? > > > > > > > Harry W. Fitch IV >hfitch@maranatha.net > Acts 4:12 > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:49:42 EST Subject: Baldwin Shark(BP20) for sale Content-Length: 1498 Hi Gang, I was wandering, and found the following: >>Subject: Brass HO 4 sail >>Date: Sun, Jan 11, 1998 14:21 EST >>From: RailroadHO >>Message-id: <19980111192100.OAA24792@ladder02.news.aol.com> >>PRR BP20 imported by Alco, A powered, B dummy $249.00<< I've bought from this gent before, and have been very satisfied. The BP20 by Alco is not state of the art by today's standards in brass production but, it's not bad either and it's the only game in town as far as the BP20's go. I bought the same two units at Timonium this fall and paid $299. The ad doesn't say but, I would assume that the units are unpainted for that price. Mine came finished in just a glaze. These babies are big and would require a pretty fair radius. I believe that ALCO was what is now Railworks. My units are still awaiting the paint shop and some repairs/replacement of a couple of gears on the axles. Should anyone be interested, the address is: RailroadHO@ aol.com. Tel: 423-995-2657. (I have no affiliation of any kind) Regards, George ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/09/98 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 9:06:44 EST Content-Length: 849 > What is this garbage anyaway ???? > > >> Britton < COLOR=3D"#0000FF">jerry@dsop.com FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D1 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
[abridged] I've noticed this, too. Seems like some list.members have their Netscape or Internet Explorer set to copy the message in HTML (HTML is the World Wide Web computer language). -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:25:14 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1312 No "on line" sources for ore - that I'm aware of - Iron ore entered system Through the docks at Cleveland Ashtabula Erie and 1 or 2 other places and headed SOUTH for any place that had a steel mill Also some "through" traffic as the Mt Carmel Ore Train in the famous Clarence Weaver Movies - Video was a transfer from Lake Ontario to Reading - for export (St Lawrence Seaway killed this business - went by boat the whole way) As indicated by John Keel - the weight of the ore was such that the trains looked empty from the sides - only from overhead could you see small piles of ore over the hopper pockets. Until the 1960's Ore Cars were primarily a Lake Superior region phenomena - carriers on the Lower Lakes used standard Hopper cars to carry the Ore (and Limestone) South and usually had a "back haul" of northbound coal - going to the Great Lake docks Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Trenton Cutoff? (fwd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 9:31:11 EST Content-Length: 2901 > I travelled to eastern PA this weekend to visit friends. On the turnpike, > between the King of Prussia and Norristown exits, there is a rail line > that parallels the highway, just to the south. They are closest together > at the crossing of the Skylkill River (sp.). Is this the Trenton Cutoff? Indeed. The catenary style clearly gives it away as PRR. >From the west, up to the Schuylkill and just a little beyond is now :-( unsignalled single track. From there east, a new connection was made ("NEST") from the Reading main, and the remainder is single track with passing sidings, and signalled, to Morrisville Yard. I heard rumors 3-4 years ago that Morrisville was to be closed as an intermodal yard (or closed altogether). What's happened, anyone know? > Below the bridges over the river there are two "main line" tracks on > either bank. I am guessing those on the south/west side are the PRR line > to Reading and those on the north/east are the Reading RR line to > Reading. Is this correct? No. From west to east, the order is as follows: 1) Reading freight line from Philly to Reading (passing through Bridgeport). 2) River 3) Reading passenger line (current SEPTA "R6" Norristown Line). This line remains on the left (east) bank to its namesake town, then loses its catenary and crosses the river to connect with the freight line. Back when SEPTA ran to Pottsville, Reading, and Pottstown, this is the way those trains ran. Now then end with the wire (ditto on the other Reading lines: no more passenger trains beyond end of wire on the old Bethlehem Branch or Newtown Branch). 4) Abandoned PRR Schuykill Branch. I don't recall how visible this branch is right at the Turnpike bridge. Railroad "east" of there, there are stretches where the parallel RDG and PRR branches can be seen from the Surekill :-) Expressway. Funny thing about it is that, since the Paoli line was built with its own catenary power supply (having been installed a decade or more before the other stuff), they decided to make the Schuylkill Branch the carrier of much of the high-tension supply to the Philly Division. Now the track is taken up along most of that RoW but the catenary has to remain. The Trenton Cutoff no longer needs power, or course, but Thorndale to Paoli does, and I'm fairly certain it's supplied via the Schuylkill Branch lines. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 12 Jan 98 09:51:13 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 14262 --====51535454495153545255===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Has anyone tried putting the Bachmann boiler on the Bowser K4 frame? It would still have the lack of weight problem, but at least the valve gear might work correctly. The amount of cutting and fitting required might not be worth the effort, especially if Penn Line/Bowser took some liberties with the dimensions of the boiler, in order to fit the motor or drive. Too bad, I was thinking of picking up some Bachmann K4's at the West Springfield show. Alternative to an E or FP unit behind a K4 (prototypical, but obviously not for the pre-diesel era), anyone considered powering a baggage or mail car with a good running diesel drive, to alleviate the traction problem? I don't know how well the wheel bases of a PRR two-axle passenger truck would go with the wheelbase of an F-unit truck, but it is worth considering. Hmmm, buy the Bachmann K4 and not be able to pull more than three cars without doubleheading, or spend almost three times as much for a Bowser with the superdetail kit, plus the Allentown Locomotive conversion kit to get flywheels on the motor, plus have to take the time to build it... That puts the price up to almost $200 an engine, full retail, not counting my 'labor' -- ouch! Well, so much for the dream of a typical Pennsy main line engine yard scene, with a veritable sea of steam locomotives... I have a hard time shelling out $50 or so for a non-functional 'display' K4 -- a pal of mine who models UP at least can fill up his Green River, Wyoming ready tracks with those non-operating Monogram Big Boy models for less than $20 a pop. I don't yet own any of the Spectrum cars -- I assume the poor rolling qualities are because of the lighting contacts dragging on the axles? I have Rivarossi lighted cars with interiors that have the same problem, and I finally had to take the contacts off in order to be able to pull a decent-sized train. Tom von Trott, if you'd like to share your experiences with these cars, please do. Tom von Trott wrote: >I also have the spectrem k4, I have 5475. The problem with all bachmans is >that they run like crap. That is the fact. But they look soooooo nice! I have >the K4, which not longer runs because the valve gear keeped bunching up and >getting messed up. (I even ordered and installed a new set, same problem) but it >makes a fantastic display. I also have the N&W J and the SP daylight models. The >daylight ran great once I added weight to both the engine and the tender. The J >and k4 do not have room for enough weight in the body (and the k4 also had other >flaws, the wheels like you said, and the valve motion problems I had), so I found >the trick (which works for all bachman steamers) is to put a good running powered >F or E unit behind the loco and run it with as many cars as you want. What I >did is I bought a undecorated B shell for my SP A-A F unit lash up. I painted the >B tuscan red and used it to power the train, with the K4 in front. Purists might >not like it, but it worked great. I could use the K4 to pull 10 and 12 car >trains no problem. All the K did was pull itself. I did have to add weight to the >tender to keep the B unit from pushing it off the track. I now use the same setup >for the J since the K no longer runs. >If I wanted to run a train with the F units I'd just remove the B shell and >put the A unit shell back on. If anybody asked, I said the B was being used for >train power :) Most people did not even notice. >I have also had many problems with the spectrum passanger cars, but that is >a WHOLE other story! > >Tom von Trott >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 1/10/98, at 9:11 AM, Jerry Shickler wrote: > >>Mark Timmerman wrote: >>> >>> Can anyone send me a list or even reviews of the available (new/old) >ve been made? >> Thanks >.net >> >I've got the Spectrum K4, and it is nice l >>> >>I've got the Spectrum K4, and it is nice looking but slippery. I haven't >>run it much (I don't have a permanent layout), but initially it would >>only pull 3 or 4 of the Spectrum heavyweights without slipping. Part of >>the problem is that the trucks on the passenger cars aren't very >>free-rolling -- (on mine, anyway) the sideframes appear to be slightly >>too far apart, so that the pointed ends of the axles aren't fully seated >>in the truck "dimples". For the K4, it looked to me that the drivers >>were too close together, so that only the edges were contacting the >>track. I pried them slightly farther apart (I don't have a gauge), and >>this (along with a bit of work on the passenger trucks) made a >>noticeable difference. The next thing I'll look at is the spring >>pressure on the front & trailing trucks. If I can reduce that without >>creating tracking problems it will put more weight on the drivers. >>-- >>Jerry Shickler >>e-mail: geshick@velocity.net >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >>Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====51535454495153545255===1 Date: 12 Jan 98 10:03:23 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Booster engines Content-Length: 8518 --====54554852535052525752===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Boosters worked best on locomotives where their extra steam consumption was factored in when the boiler was designed. "Super-power" locomotives such as the Lima-designed J1 were successful booster users, due to the extra steam-generating capacity of its boiler. The booster was included in its original design, not so with PRR's 'standard' engines, where the "afterthought" booster apparently was not highly successful, given the lower-than-typical boiler pressures standard on PRR engines. Discussion about number plates puts forth the assertion the J1 was a dual-service engine. I have never seen a picture of one pulling a passenger train, except as a helper on mail and express trains on the Pittsburgh division. Were J1's ever used in passenger service? Da72jmk wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-11 15:06:04 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: ><< Could someone please explain exactly what a booster engine is and how did > they work? >> > >According to the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia, a booster is "an auxiliary engine >for driving the locomotive trailing truck wheels or tender truck wheels, thus >adding to the tractive force of the locomotive. It may be engaged or >disengaged as desired." > >Boosters were primarily used when starting a train. > >An ad in the Cyc for Franklin Railway Supply Company adds, "The Locomotive >Booster is designed to put idle trailing or tender wheels to work by >capitalizing idle weight and spare steam. The Locomotive Booster is a two- >cylinder, 90 degree engine, the dimensions being controlled by the weight on >the axle which it drives. Attached to the frame of the truck through a three >point suspension, the Booster transmits its power to the driven axle through >an idler gear which can be engaged or disengaged at the will of the operator, >within the speed range of the Booster. Its speed is controlled by mechanism >attached to the reverse gear quadrant so that when the cut-off of the main >engine is shortened after pre-determined speed has been reached the Booster >cuts out automatically. > The Booster is furnished for all types of service. To meet the demand >for hight pressure in advanced designs of locomotives, a new Type is provided >to operate up to 350 lb. pressure and at speeds up to 35 m.p.h. It may be cut >in a speeds as high as 21 m.p.h." > >Boosters were tried on various PRR designs, but the Pennsy prefered its >engines to be able to start their trains without the extra mechanism of the >booster engine. For example, a booster was fitted to L1 2-8-2 #1556, which >was used on the Elmira branch. According to Caloroso, "the locomotive was not >popular with the crews because they felt the booster used too much of the >available steam." > >The J1, being a C&O design, included a booster on the trailing truck. This >was the only widespread use of boosters on the PRR. > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====54554852535052525752===1 Date: 12 Jan 98 10:16:03 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 6222 --====49545456565751525153===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" At one time in the late 50's, PRR must have "borrowed" B&LE Great Lakes-style bottom-dumping ore cars. I have seen pictures of them being pushed westbound through Devon on The Main Line, I assume originating from the Greenwich Point ore pier. Does anyone know the circumstances of why these cars were being used, rather than the standard hopper cars usually employed in such service? Seems if one were modeling a portion of the Philly-Pittsburgh main during the late 50's, this would be a good opportunity to work these unusual cars into the traffic. Were they being tested by PRR, in anticipation of purchasing its own, but Pennsy went with their own ore jenny design instead? Also, how far off from the PRR ore jenny design are the Roundhouse ore gondola cars (NOT the Great Lakes cars)? I'm thinking of buying some at West Springfield, assuming I can find any. They appear to be one or two panels too long, vs. the PRR design. Or are they really far off from the PRR design? Inquiring minds want to know... -- Doug Drew Da72jmk wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:47 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: > ><< Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? >> > >I can answer this one, perhaps others can tackle the other questions you >raised. > >The PRR had G38 and G39 ore "Jennies"--short bathtub gondolas for ore service. >The first of these cars was built in 1960. I remember standing on the >passenger bridge at the Harrisburg station and watching a train of them move >through crossovers on the freight tracks. That was probably about 1966. > >Before that, the PRR used hopper cars to carry ore. Ore is much heavier than >coal, so the cars couldn't be filled. I understand that a small scoop of ore >would be dumped over each pocket and that the car would appear empty from the >side. > >John Keel > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====49545456565751525153===1 Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:41:02 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1555 On 11 Jan, Zeolla wrote: > Even caught a Pennsy gondola parked there > in July of last year, the best I could make out the number was 442465. > It was a real treat to see it! A PRR gon (maybe the same one) went through Cambridge early last year -- a real shock! > I've also cought the Conrail executive train pass throught there, pulled > by their E8's. Who did they originally belong to? Were they PRR? The two with HEP are ex-PRR by way of Amtrak, the third is from somebody else, but I can't remember who. Lehigh? Amtrak HEPed five ex-PRR E8s, sealing the portholes and renumbering them 495-499, so you can model an E8 with nose rings pulling Amtubes, all in cigar-band livery! Should be a great trap for catching nitpickers. Another work in progress for me. The roof detail is unique: a box with four mufflers, where the steam generator stacks usually are. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:03:26 -0500 From: Bob Zeolla Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? Content-Length: 1743 Carl K Vogel wrote: > > I am enjoying this thread. > > Could someone please tell me where Abrams Yard is. I just drove by the > same lines today as I crossed the Schuylkill River. Would love to visit > the Abrams Yard. > Carl, I'm glad you're enjoying this thread, and I'm also glad I've finally got some thing to add to the group. I've been just "listening" for a long time. Abrams yard is along the old Reading mainline up river a bit from Norristown but before Valley Forge on the south(west?) side of the Schulkill. The easiest way to find is is to get to Henderson Rd and Rte 202 in King of Prussia, and go north on Henderson. It will take you right to it. From the other direction, exit Rte 422 at Rte 23. Take 23 east. Just after you cross over a single track spur, make a left onto Biedler(sp?) Ave. This will also take you to Abrams. A word of warning...most action at this location is after 8 at night, althought there are some locals that work during the day. Anyone else traveling in Eastern PA should try to include Rte 30 between Downingtown and Exton in their route. The new Hiway bypass parallels the "Broad Way" at Whitford and you get a fabulous view of the Whitford bridge. Its no longer in use, but still standing (and who knows for how much longer!). Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 12 Jan 98 11:15:59 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Baldwin Shark(BP20) for sale Content-Length: 5669 --====55555149565357555157===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" As a warning to the uninitiated, Alco Models mechanisms were notorious for their poor running qualities and tendency to chew their own drive trains into little pieces. This model should be considered a late 60's -early 70's state of the art brass diesel, with none of the running qualities of recent models with can motors and the like. But as the man says, if BP20's are your 'thing', it's about the only game in town... Eichhorn wrote: >Hi Gang, > >I was wandering, and found the following: > >>>Subject: Brass HO 4 sail >>>Date: Sun, Jan 11, 1998 14:21 EST >>>From: RailroadHO >>>Message-id: <19980111192100.OAA24792@ladder02.news.aol.com> > >>>PRR BP20 imported by Alco, A powered, B dummy $249.00<< > >I've bought from this gent before, and have been very >satisfied. The BP20 by Alco is not state of the art by >today's standards in brass production but, it's not bad >either and it's the only game in town as far as the BP20's >go. I bought the same two units at Timonium this fall and >paid $299. The ad doesn't say but, I would assume that >the units are unpainted for that price. Mine came finished in >just a glaze. These babies are big and would require a >pretty fair radius. I believe that ALCO was what is now >Railworks. My units are still awaiting the paint shop and >some repairs/replacement of a couple of gears on the axles. >Should anyone be interested, the address is: RailroadHO@ >aol.com. Tel: 423-995-2657. (I have no affiliation of any kind) > >Regards, > >George > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====55555149565357555157===1 >>>Subject: >>>Date: Sun, >>>From: Subject: Re: Baldwin Shark(BP20) for sale Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 11:16:06 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 2687 George, I have a A-B set of the sharks. The axle gears were all cracked (supposedly a very common problem with the units.) I replaced them with the NWSL repower kit for the engines and was underwhelmed to say the least. (I kept the original motor) The regrear kit slowed then engines down alot. Now they run more like switchers. Also, the drive is still pretty noisy (this is from the idler gears that the repower kit doesn't replace. Especially since the motor runs near full speed to get the engine running at passenger speeds...) I'm planning on chalking up the project as a loss and ordering a Proto 2000 PA for the gear towers and motor. The PA trucks have the same wheelbase and sideframes and look much better than the Alco ones too. Just have to find a way to mount the trucks and stretch the universals.... Don't expect these units to be good runners straight from the box! Overall the units look pretty good though. Mine came with a real crappy paintjob. (That and the drive problems made them real cheap!) After I finish the drive project I'll have to strip them. Too bad they don't come with antennas! Rob >Hi Gang,> > >I was wandering, and found the following: > >>>Subject: Brass HO 4 sail >>>Date: Sun, Jan 11, 1998 14:21 EST >>>From: RailroadHO >>>Message-id: <19980111192100.OAA24792@ladder02.news.aol.com> > >>>PRR BP20 imported by Alco, A powered, B dummy $249.00<< > >I've bought from this gent before, and have been very >satisfied. The BP20 by Alco is not state of the art by >today's standards in brass production but, it's not bad >either and it's the only game in town as far as the BP20's >go. I bought the same two units at Timonium this fall and >paid $299. The ad doesn't say but, I would assume that >the units are unpainted for that price. Mine came finished in >just a glaze. These babies are big and would require a >pretty fair radius. I believe that ALCO was what is now >Railworks. My units are still awaiting the paint shop and >some repairs/replacement of a couple of gears on the axles. >Should anyone be interested, the address is: RailroadHO@ >aol.com. Tel: 423-995-2657. (I have no affiliation of any kind) > >Regards, > >George ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:27:26 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1169 In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:50 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: << Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? PRR used H21 and H22 family of cars and other hoppers for ore until the adoption of the G38, G38a. G38b, G39 and G39a ore cars in the 50's. Where did the cars enter the Pennsy system? PRR operated ore docks at Sandusky Ohio, Astubula Ohio, Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo (?) Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? No What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. Columbus, Youngstown, Alliquipa, Ambridge, Midland, Homestead, Duquesne, Monongahela, Donora, Johnstown, Gary IN, Phladelphia, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, McKeesport, Beaver, Beaver Falls, >> ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 12 Jan 98 11:46:46 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: ?s Ore trains on the PRR (long) Content-Length: 11627 --====55495153545455545053===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Harold, my first instinct would be to defer to list member and PRR freight car expert Rich Orr for answers about specific car questions posed here, but since I've never been afraid to shoot my mouth off, I'll try to give a general answer about the rest of your questions: >Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? As someone on this list already posted, PRR prefered to get more utility out of its considerable hopper fleet by using them to haul both coal and ore -- often this would mean loaded cars moving in both directions -- to a port with coal, and back with ore. Dedicated ore cars were a relatively late phenomenon in PRR's mineral movement. >What foreign road cars would be appropriate for 1900 through 1919?, 1920 >through 1939? 1940 through 1949? Come in, Rich Orr? I suppose foreign-road cars may have been used in ore service, too, but I can't remember seeing any in PRR ore trains in photos within the time periods mentioned. Of course, due to the density of iron ore and the small amount required to fill a car to capacity, it is difficult to tell if a hopper is loaded with ore or is empty, unless shot from above. If foreign cars were used, they probably would have been hopper cars as well -- dedicated ore cars seemed to be used mainly in the Minnesota arrowhead country, northern Wisconsin and the Michigan upper peninsula. As mentioned in another post, I have only seen shots of "Great Lakes" type ore cars in use on PRR main lines in the late 50's. If the above types of ore cars were used during other periods, it would have probably been around the Pittsburgh or Butler areas, and would have come off the Bessemer and Lake Erie/Union railroads. B&LE did employ dedicated ore cars (though this may not have been until the 50's, either), and Union was the terminating end of the B&LE in the Pittsburgh region. It's conceivable that B&LE ore cars would have interchanged onto PRR lines from the Union, in the Pittsburgh area, or off B&LE directly in the Butler area. >Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? >What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. As for sources of ore, most steel centers in Pennsylvania, the West Virginia panhandle and eastern Ohio became what they were due to their proximity to iron ore deposits, and metallurgical coal and dolomite limestone to smelt that ore. This would be the case with Pittsburgh and environs, Johnstown, Weirton/Stuebenville and Youngstown (among others), for locations on PRR routes. Once the ore deposits were played out in those areas, it was easier to move the ore to the blast furnaces, than to dismantle the blast furnaces and other mills and move them to the ore. Alternatively, steel works were sited near bodies of water or rivers where ore and/or coal and dolomite could cheaply be transported to the furnaces via water craft -- ships or barges. This would be the case with areas such as Cleveland and Gary, Indiana, though the Pittsburgh area and Weirton/Stuebenville steel mills benefited from river traffic as well. Ore, being the low-value commodity that it is, was moved by the least-expensive means possible at the time, which in most cases was via water as far as possible, and then via rail the rest of the way to the furnaces. I've left many steel mill sites on PRR lines out. There was one around Lewistown (Milroy?) that has been mentioned on this list a few times, Steelton near Harrisburg, Sparrows Point near Baltimore, Fairless near Morrisville. I recommend the Walthers book by Gil Freytag about the steel industry, as a good source of information and photos. Also, if there are old industrial atlases in your local library, they can be fruitful resources as to locations of ore mines and steel mills. Modern ones would be less helpful, due to the general collapse of the steel industry on PRR/Conrail lines. Hope this helps -- Doug Drew Hal6963 wrote: >Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? > >What foreign road cars would be appropriate for 1900 through 1919?, 1920 >through 1939? 1940 through 1949? > >Where did the cars enter the Pennsy system? > >Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? > >What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. > > >Thanks > >Harold R. McGee >Gainesville, FL. > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====55495153545455545053===1 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 805 Hi All, I've wondered for a long time just how much ore to put in a hopper for correct loading. Just recently I came across a pic in another RR's book that showed a hopper ore train from above and it looked like the ore barely covered the bottom of the cars. Heavy stuff. Anybody have any idea what a cubic yard of ore weighs compared to a cubic yard of coal? Hope this helps, Ron. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:42:42 -0500 (EST) From: bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1517 At 03:09 PM 1/10/98 EST, Hal6963 wrote: > >Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? > >Thanks > >Harold R. McGee >Gainesville, FL. > Harold: The Pennsy had coal and ore docks on the bayfront in Erie, Pa. until about 1959, when that business was consolidated with and moved to the PRR's Ashtabula, Ohio docks. Ore left town in regular hoppers, albeit much less fully loaded due to the ore's density as compared to coal. It was a great time to see/hear/smell Baldwin Sharks in action on the head end pulling a drag off the lake, often with (in summer months) a visiting Bangor & Aroostook GP-7 or two shoving from behind. bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 12 Jan 98 13:50:49 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 5382 --====49505150504857545555===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" I believe the ore in the Mt. Carmel ore moves came from Erie, PA, on Lake Erie, not Sodus Point, NY on Lake Ontario. I think there was only a coal dump at Sodus, no ore unloader. It is my understanding the Mt. Carmel job ore was destined to the furnaces at Bethlehem, on the Lehigh Valley, not Reading. Mt. Carmel was a PRR/LV interchange. Were there blast furnaces in Reading? Certainly, not an ocean port. If PRR was doing a "land bridge" move for export ore, it could have taken the ore all the way to tidewater at Philadelphia, Baltimore or South Amboy. -- Doug Drew VVA249 wrote: > No "on line" sources for ore - that I'm aware of - Iron ore entered system >Through the docks at Cleveland Ashtabula Erie and 1 or 2 other places and >headed SOUTH for any place that had a steel mill > Also some "through" traffic as the Mt Carmel Ore Train in the famous >Clarence Weaver Movies - Video was a transfer from Lake Ontario to Reading - >for export (St Lawrence Seaway killed this business - went by boat the whole >way) > As indicated by John Keel - the weight of the ore was such that the >trains looked empty from the sides - only from overhead could you see small >piles of ore over the hopper pockets. > Until the 1960's Ore Cars were primarily a Lake Superior region phenomena >- carriers on the Lower Lakes used standard Hopper cars to carry the Ore (and >Limestone) South and usually had a "back haul" of northbound coal - going to >the Great Lake docks >Dick Ross > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====49505150504857545555===1 Date: 12 Jan 98 13:57:49 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/09/98 Content-Length: 4424 --====57525450565254545650===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Unfortunately, some of us are using this list on an office e-mail system which must support PC's in various iterations of Windows (3.1, 95), plus a lot of Macs as well. The system is configured so that, if users can't use the company standard e-mail software, they can access e-mail via a web browser. Sorry, but I've been told not to fool around with the settings and preferences on this e-mail program, so there you are. Mark D Bej wrote: >> What is this garbage anyaway ???? >> >> >> Britton <> COLOR=3D"#0000FF">jerry@dsop.com> FACE=3D"Geneva" SIZE=3D1 COLOR=3D"#000000">>
>[abridged] > > >I've noticed this, too. > >Seems like some list.members have their Netscape or Internet Explorer set >to copy the message in HTML (HTML is the World Wide Web computer language). > > >-- >Mark D. Bej >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====57525450565254545650===1 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:26:44 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 2366 > No "on line" sources for ore - that I'm aware of - Iron ore entered system >Through the docks at Cleveland Ashtabula Erie and 1 or 2 other places and >headed SOUTH for any place that had a steel mill > Also some "through" traffic as the Mt Carmel Ore Train in the famous >Clarence Weaver Movies - Video was a transfer from Lake Ontario to Reading - >for export (St Lawrence Seaway killed this business - went by boat the whole >way) > As indicated by John Keel - the weight of the ore was such that the >trains looked empty from the sides - only from overhead could you see small >piles of ore over the hopper pockets. > Until the 1960's Ore Cars were primarily a Lake Superior region phenomena >- carriers on the Lower Lakes used standard Hopper cars to carry the Ore (and >Limestone) South and usually had a "back haul" of northbound coal - going to >the Great Lake docks Don't forget that the South Philadelphia Docks were also a source of LOADS. Iron ore was shipped to Philadelphia by boat, primarily I believe from South America, loaded into hoppers and sent WEST. I believe that this traffic continues today. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? (fwd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:41:38 EST Content-Length: 945 > Could someone please tell me where Abrams Yard is. I just drove by the > same lines today as I crossed the Schuylkill River. Would love to visit > the Abrams Yard. Carl, Abrams Yard is easily enough accessed. Get off the Surekill Expwy to US 202 North, proceed to Henderson Road, turn left. Cross Pa. 23, then proceed down the hill, down down down until the road makes a very sharp left turn. You are at Abrams. I never made it to the tower there. ANyone know how it was accessed? -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:34:29 -0500 From: Bob Zeolla Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? (fwd) Content-Length: 1341 Mark D Bej wrote: > > I heard rumors 3-4 years ago that Morrisville was to be closed as an > intermodal yard (or closed altogether). What's happened, anyone know? Its still alive and kicking. I drive past there on Rte 1 sometimes, and there's still signs of life. As a matter of fact, isn't Norfolk Southern getting that piece in the breakup? I think I read where they plan to expand the intermodal facility at Morrisville. > 4) Abandoned PRR Schuykill Branch. I don't recall how visible this branch > is right at the Turnpike bridge. The old PRR ROW is now a bike path.:-( It goes from Valley Forge at least into Manyunk, maybe further. > or course, but Thorndale to Paoli does, and I'm fairly certain it's > supplied via the Schuylkill Branch lines. The only tracks remaining between Thorndale and Paoli are on the mainline (Amtrak). Are those the ones you're refering to? Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:34:18 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1181 On 11 Jan, Da72jmk wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:47 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: > > << Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? >> > > Philadelphia import pier. Also Hulett unloaders in Cleveland and Ashtabula > (maybe others) were on-line to the PRR. This is something I've been curious about for a while now: since they're gons and not hoppers, how are the ore jennies unloaded? Rotary dumper? Manual labor (shovels)? Front (un)loader? Giant Electrolux? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:38:48 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1253 On 12 Jan, Doug Drew wrote: Hey, Doug, turn off the HTML option in your mailer, willya? Your messages take up twice as much space as they ought to. > At one time in the late 50's, PRR must have "borrowed" B&LE Great > Lakes-style bottom-dumping ore cars. I have seen pictures of them being pushed > westbound through Devon on The Main Line, I assume originating from the > Greenwich Point ore pier. Were they still in B&LE paint? Is this the "standard" ore car (single-bay hopper) readily available in N from Atlas? Alternatively, does anybody make PRR ore jennies in N? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 16:05:33 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1283 Bowser makes a repower kit specifically for the Spectrum K4. I haven't tried it myself so I can't tell you any more about it. As for the Spectrum passenger cars, the trucks under the first few batches were pretty poor. They had plastic sideframes and wipers for the wheels. The wipers add alot of drag to a train! Some of the cars also had the sideframes too far apart. This makes the car ride poorly also (some had the sideframes ride slightly below the railhead!) The prewar scheme cars that I got have better trucks. These have die-cast sideframes. No pesky wipers to worry about and the sideframes seem to be set the right distance apart. These roll as well as most freight cars do. My Spectrum K4 could actually pull the set of 6 on level track! I haven't checked to see which trucks the latest releases have. Hopefully the metal ones! Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 16:32:41 -0500 Content-Length: 768 I'll admit to not having tried this (since I don't even own a Bachmann K4), but this list has been buzzing alot about getting Bachmann K4's to pull, sooo: Has anyone tried to boost the power of a B K4 with a tender drive?? Something like a Spud truck, or an Athearn Hustler drive or a Bachmann GE 44 tonner with 36 in wheels. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:10:46 -0500 From: Bob Zeolla Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 926 Interesting that this topic comes up today. I was at a model RR club open house yesterday, and they were running a B&LE consist pulling partially full hoppers. When I asked about them, I was told that the modeler had gotten his hands on some real iron ore and thats what was in the hoppers. The fact that it is so heavy is why there were only two piles at either end of each hopper. The train needed three P2K SD7's to pull it and it only had about ten cars. Modeling DOES mimic real life!!! Bob Zeolla ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:30 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1066 The B&LE jennies you saw were going to the Saxonburg sintering plant of U S Steel. All the import ore coming into Phila at that time was raw ore right out of the ground. US Steel found out if the ore was sintered ( impurities removed I believe) that the quality of the iron from blast furnaces was much improved or easier to control. They built a new plant in Saxonburg Pa. on the B & LE to process their ore before sending it to some of their mills. This plant was built in 1959 I believe so thats why the B & LE jennies were used. this might of been the reason for the PRR building their G-38 and G-39 jennies starting in 1960. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 12 Jan 98 17:23:09 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 3318 --====54515055515055485648===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Carbon's atomic weight is about 12. Iron's atomic weight is about 56, or 4.67 times carbon's weight. Figure it out. Ron Dugas wrote: >Hi All, > >I've wondered for a long time just how much ore to put in a hopper for >correct loading. Just recently I came across a pic in another RR's book >that showed a hopper ore train from above and it looked like the ore >barely covered the bottom of the cars. Heavy stuff. Anybody have any idea >what a cubic yard of ore weighs compared to a cubic yard of coal? > >Hope this helps, > >Ron. > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====54515055515055485648===1 From: KEMACPRR Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:41:41 EST Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? Content-Length: 850 Re: the Conrail E units: The 4020 is ex Amtrak 498 ex PC 4309 ex PRR 5809 The 4021 is ex Amtrak 499 ex PC 4311 ex PRR 5711 The 4022 is ex Erie Lackawanna ( Erie ) 833 For further info the two E-8's on the Blue mountain And Reading are ex PRR 5708 and 5898. Of the 5 ex PRR E's that were HEP''ed by PC for Amtrak only the 496 was scrapped. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:52:48 EST Subject: Huntingdon Module (Long) Content-Length: 2169 I am planning a module of Huntingdon in the Middle Division. The time period I am modeling is 1916, however I intend to have some interchangeable buildings to allow switching to the 1940s and back. I stopped there on the way to Railfest last fall and took some photographs of Hunt Tower, the recently restored depot, and the lone passenger shelter. I am looking for some additional photos and information on the general area from about 100 feet north of the tower to a couple of hundred feet south of the east-west street that borders the south end of the Depot. The land rises rather steeply from the street on the east side of the depot on toward the downtown area. The east side of that street will probable have a continuous row of modified DPM buildings with trees behind on the up-slope forming the backdrop. There is a large amount of open space between the depot and the tower which probably had additional railroad related buildings. I am wondering if there were not larger passenger shelters on both sides of the double track main at one time. Was this ever 4 tracks at this location. Looking for suggestions about other items to include on the module. The Module will be 72-inches long, 30-inches wide, with a top of rail elevation of 52-inches. I have designed a folding leg system for ease of transporting. I have a 12-inch wide fascia board in Tuscan with 5 gold stripes which I finished last weekend and it looks real good. I have ordered a Keystone decal which will be centered in middle of the fascia board and centered in the stripes. The module will be part of my permanent layout when not being used at shows and club meetings. Any thoughts on the module will be appreciated Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:55:04 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 687 Doug Drew asked: <> Drawings of class G38 appeared in Mainline Modeler 3/92 and of class G39a in Railroad Model Craftsman 12/67. Hope this helps. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:59:53 EST Subject: Pennsylvania Railroad Maps Project Content-Length: 1315 I have recently acquired a USGS topo map of Pennsylvania at a scale of 1:500.00 and have heaved in the railroad system in black ink. I am in the process of reconstructing the rail system as it existed in 1916 using old maps and other sources. So far I have generally plotted the PRR, B&O, NYC, WM, EL&W, LV, D&H, East Broad Top, and the Reading. The map sure gives a good picture of railroading in Pennsylvania. My next project will be to do the same with the 7.5 minute series maps which will give a lot more detail plus the contour lines of abandonded trackage usually still shows on these maps which provides an additional way to reconstruct the railroad lines. I have order the 28 maps that it takes to do the Middle Division from Harrisburg to Cresson and hope to have the project done in time for the PRRT&HS meeting in Harrisburg at the end of April. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:02:50 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1012 In a message dated 98-01-12 18:23:01 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << I believe the ore in the Mt. Carmel ore moves came from Erie, PA, on Lake Erie, not Sodus Point, NY on Lake Ontario. I think there was only a coal dump at Sodus, no ore unloader. >> That's correct for for the Weaver video (which was the topic of the discussion), but there once was an "ore pier" at Sodus Point. Sometime before 1927, when the "new" coal pier was built, there were both "coal" and "ore" piers. I have seen this on an old map of Sodus Point. I think it dated from the early 1900's. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:52:26 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: Bachmann K4 Content-Length: 696 Harry W. Fitch IV wrote: > > If I am following the E-mail on these Bachmann K4s models, then the later > offering by Bachmann was touted as being a Baldwin built locomotive with > the number 5475? > ... My Spectrum K4 is #5425. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:02:13 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 1189 Rob Schoenberg wrote: >... > The prewar scheme cars that I got have better trucks. > These have die-cast sideframes. No pesky wipers to worry about and the sideframes seem to be set the > right distance apart. These roll as well as most freight cars do. My Spectrum K4 could actually pull > the set of 6 on level track! > ... My pre-war set (not the latest release) has the metal side frames. Some axles roll smoothly while others don't. The trouble seems to be that the bad ones are too far apart. Some trucks will have two good axles and one bad. I've also found glue slopped into the "dimples" of the side frame. Cleaning that up and lubricating (I just rubbed a pencil in the dimples) helped noticibly. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:19:51 EST Content-Length: 2633 1. The BAR Geeps were not just visiting. Since ore service on the Great Lakes[warm weather] and the potato traffic from Maine [Cold weather] are seasonal and complimentary, PRR financed BAR's lease of the engines in consideration for using them during the summer. 2. PRR reached Bethlehem by routing North on the Bel-Del to Philipsburg and then west on the Lehigh Valley. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:42:42 -0500 (EST) bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) writes: >At 03:09 PM 1/10/98 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >> >>Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? >> >>Thanks >> >>Harold R. McGee >>Gainesville, FL. >> > >Harold: > > The Pennsy had coal and ore docks on the bayfront in Erie, Pa. until >about >1959, when that business was consolidated with and moved to the PRR's >Ashtabula, Ohio docks. > > Ore left town in regular hoppers, albeit much less fully loaded due >to >the ore's density as compared to coal. It was a great time to >see/hear/smell >Baldwin Sharks in action on the head end pulling a drag off the lake, >often >with (in summer months) a visiting Bangor & Aroostook GP-7 or two >shoving >from behind. > >bobr@tridelta.com (Bob Rothrock) > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? (fwd) From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:19:52 EST Content-Length: 4695 According to my most recent [Jan 1 1996] CR ETT the connection between the Cut-Off [CR Morrisville Line] and the Reading Main [CR Harrisburg Line is by way of a connection at CP-KING to the Morrisville Connecting Track to CP-KING on the Septa Norristown Line then to CP-KALB to CP-NORRIS on the Harrisburg Line Morrisville is the home for local freights: 1. on the NEC [Trenton, NJ => Bristol, PA]; 2. Bordentown Secondary; 3. the Fairless Branch; and 4. the Robbinsville Industrial Track. The hump is long gone. The last time I drove by demolition had begun on the engine house. The intermodal yard is along the Cut-Off at Oxford Valley. It is visible from Route 1. The RDG Fairless branch from Woodbourne has been connected to the Cut-Off at Oxford Valley in order to allow Trenton line trains direct access. Several years ago NJT wanted to turn the hump bowl area into an MU storage yard for the NEC. There was sufficient legitimate opposition to this plan that they are not proceeding with it. MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 9:31:11 EST Mark D Bej writes: >> I travelled to eastern PA this weekend to visit friends. On the >turnpike, >> between the King of Prussia and Norristown exits, there is a rail >line >> that parallels the highway, just to the south. They are closest >together >> at the crossing of the Skylkill River (sp.). Is this the Trenton >Cutoff? > >Indeed. >The catenary style clearly gives it away as PRR. > >>From the west, up to the Schuylkill and just a little beyond is now >:-( >unsignalled single track. From there east, a new connection was made >("NEST") from the Reading main, and the remainder is single track with >passing sidings, and signalled, to Morrisville Yard. > >I heard rumors 3-4 years ago that Morrisville was to be closed as an >intermodal yard (or closed altogether). What's happened, anyone know? > > >> Below the bridges over the river there are two "main line" tracks on > >> either bank. I am guessing those on the south/west side are the PRR >line >> to Reading and those on the north/east are the Reading RR line to >> Reading. Is this correct? > >No. From west to east, the order is as follows: > >1) Reading freight line from Philly to Reading (passing through >Bridgeport). >2) River >3) Reading passenger line (current SEPTA "R6" Norristown Line). This >line > remains on the left (east) bank to its namesake town, then loses >its > catenary and crosses the river to connect with the freight line. >Back > when SEPTA ran to Pottsville, Reading, and Pottstown, this is the >way > those trains ran. Now then end with the wire (ditto on the other > Reading lines: no more passenger trains beyond end of wire on the > old Bethlehem Branch or Newtown Branch). >4) Abandoned PRR Schuykill Branch. I don't recall how visible this >branch > is right at the Turnpike bridge. Railroad "east" of there, there >are > stretches where the parallel RDG and PRR branches can be seen from >the > Surekill :-) Expressway. Funny thing about it is that, since the >Paoli > line was built with its own catenary power supply (having been >installed > a decade or more before the other stuff), they decided to make the > Schuylkill Branch the carrier of much of the high-tension supply to >the > Philly Division. Now the track is taken up along most of that RoW >but > the catenary has to remain. The Trenton Cutoff no longer needs >power, > or course, but Thorndale to Paoli does, and I'm fairly certain it's > supplied via the Schuylkill Branch lines. > >-- >Mark D. Bej >bejm@eeg.ccf.org > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:45:43 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: PRR PAs Content-Length: 1391 Hi folks... This is for the question Jerry B posted a little while back about PAs running on the Northern Central... Jerry i went to Greenburgs Va. Beach train show on the 10th and while there i was looking at the books....There is a recent book out, about railroads in Maryland ("Trackside Maryland" i think......not sure)of the title of it...but really recent. Anyway...i was thumbing through it and while heavy on B&O and the Ma & Pa, it does show some Pennsy stuff...I continued to look through it and low and behold there was a picture of a A-B-A set of PAs on the PRR-NCRy in Maryland. Also it had a picture of a E unit powered passenger train passing Riderwood,Md. (while the station was still in RR use)...This is not the same as the one in "The story of the Northern Central" book, but shot from about the same angle....I'll put more info on about this as i get back to it. H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 7:23:04 EST From: Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 2168 In a message dated 12 Jan 98 SUVCWORRAaol.com wrote: << What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. Columbus, Youngstown, Alliquipa, Ambridge, Midland, Homestead, Duquesne, Monongahela, Donora, Johnstown, Gary IN, Phladelphia, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, McKeesport, Beaver, Beaver Falls, >> Don't know a thing about steel production in PA so excuse the question if its a dumb one, but didn't the mills in Bethlehem or Steelton, PA produce steel from raw ore? ------------- Original Text From: SUVCW ORR , on 1/12/98 11:27 AM: In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:50 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: << Did the PRR have ore cars or did they receive all of they cars offline? PRR used H21 and H22 family of cars and other hoppers for ore until the adoption of the G38, G38a. G38b, G39 and G39a ore cars in the 50's. Where did the cars enter the Pennsy system? PRR operated ore docks at Sandusky Ohio, Astubula Ohio, Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo (?) Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? No What were the destinations for ore in PA other than Pittsburg. Columbus, Youngstown, Alliquipa, Ambridge, Midland, Homestead, Duquesne, Monongahela, Donora, Johnstown, Gary IN, Phladelphia, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, McKeesport, Beaver, Beaver Falls, >> ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:01:11 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: PRR Modular Modeling Society Content-Length: 8441 I am posting this announcement to the PRR-Talk list where the idea originated (for more info see: http://prr.dsop.com/) , and to the LDSIG list. Announcing PRRMO, The PRR Modular Modeling Society Goals: 1) To develop standards which will allow modelers to better represent the Pennsylvania Railroad in modular and sectional form. 2) To provide a mechanism whereby the history of the Pennsylvania Railroad may be disseminated at shows and model railroad meets. In particular, the national meeting of the PRRT&HS and the NMRA will be considered. 3) To provide a common ground where modelers and historians of the Pennsylvania Railroad may meet and share their appreciation of "The Standard Railroad of the World". 4) To provide the potential for realistic operations when assembled rather than merely race-track running Due to initial interest, we are concentrating on organizing a group to model in HO scale. N scale afficianados may wish to follow suit! Proposed Standards - HO Scale 1) 2" seperation between tangent tracks, 2 3/8" + on curves 2) code 100 rail 3) 36" min radius curves 4) # 6 turnout minimum 5) both rails wired - both DC and DCC control possible, standard (to be determined) connectors for wiring. Operation would be from the PUBLIC side with walk around controllers (preferably radio/infrared). This would also facilitate interaction with the public and education about the PRR! 6) employ FREMO like standards with standard modules of 2 foot by 4 foot, BUT allow other sizes, and have a standard end profile, so that any module will fit with any other. (see http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/shipmill/inhalt.htm for more on FREMO) Any modules having unusual contours or deviations from the end profile would be expected to provide "linker" modules to return to the standard profile. 7) 2 track and 4 track main modules - tracks centered (2 track at 11" and 13", 4 track at 9",11",13" and 15" from the face board) 8) switching opportunities - sidings, yards 9) support for catenary on some modules 10) Provisions for GRADES (and helper districts) - Horseshoe curve modules!!!!! 11) Modules set in 1952 (steam-diesel-electrics) however, earlier and more modern PRR power + rolling stock allowed. 12) 2 and 4 track 90 degree curved modules - to be owned by the group 13) 2 and 4 track junction modules - to be owned by the group 14) Scenes to be from the PRR, or derived from the PRR (some freelancing allowed, but no fantasy dragons and dinosaurs!). Every attempt will be made to arrange modules in correct geographic order at shows IF POSSIBLE. 15) Prototypical signals - hopefully functional at some point! 16) Standard appearance of all fascia - size, material and color (Tuscan), with a group logo - gold 4" PRR keystone on the module front, and module name, and PRR location information attached if appropriate. Additional historical attachments where appropriate describing locomotives, PRR practices etc. Organization: Organizer Yours Truely, aka Bruce "too stupid to duck" Smith (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) Charter members (so far): 1) Robert Johnston 2) Tom Vondruska 3) Harold 4) Joe Gotaskie 5) Jerry Britton 6) Bob Zoeller Joining: If you are interested, PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY by email. Do NOT respond to this list!!!! If interest is high enough, we will create a list specific to this group. Future correspondence on this subject will include a list of email addresses. Please notify me CLEARLY if you do not want your email address distributed (although how you're going to participate then is beyond me!). Please indicate: 1) The type of module you might be interested in building (2 track, 4 track, industries?) 2) its geographic location 3) your geographic location. I hope to create a web page with this information to enable regional groups of PRRMO to get together, in addition to the national group. Membership in PRRT&HS is not required (although I can't reccommend it enough). Several potential module arrangements are shown below: ____<________________ ________<________ | __>________________\ /________>_______ | || central work \\ _______________<_______________ // || || & storage space /\_______________<_______________/\ || ||__<________________/ \_______________>_______________/ \________<_______|| |___>__________________________________>__________________________>________| 2 track modules |flyover| 4 track modules |flyover|2 track modules In this arrangement, the 4 track segment might be open to the public on both sides (ie no back boards) whereas the 2 track segments would be open on one side. For this, the group would need 2 flyovers, and 4 90 degree 2 track curves. Please note that multiple other curves could be acommodated, such as a bend in the 4 track region and other curves in the 2 track region. ________________________ ________________________ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 4 track loop |______________________________| 2 track loop | | |______________________________| | | | connecting yard | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |_______________________| |_______________________| In this arrangement, two loops, one of 4 tracks, and one of two tracks would be joined by a yard area. Trains on one loop could transition to the other by pasing through the yard, The yard would also act as staging. This arrangement would require 4 four track corners, 4 two track corners, the yard and two "junction" modules. ________________________ _________________________ | || | | || | | || | | || | | 4 track loop || 2 track loop | | || | | || | | ||<-connecting yard | | || | | || | |_______________________||________________________| In this arrangement, a 4 track loop and a 2 track loop meet in a central yard. Trains on the the 4 track loop could either enter the yard or the 2 track loop. Trains could be dispatched from the yard to either loop. This arrangement would require two four track corners, two 2 track corners, two junctions and the yard modules. Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 13 Jan 98 09:06:34 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Pennsylvania Railroad Maps Project Content-Length: 5042 --====49495455535153485455===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Harold, et al: There's a dilly of an 1895 Pennsylvania railroad map at: http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/states/1895/pa_1895.jpg However, if you have a slow modem, you may not want to go there -- the file is almost 1900K! They had to scan the thing at a very large size in order to get all the little roadname abbreviations, etc. on the various routes. It's a very well-done scan, easy to read on-screen. -- Doug Drew Hal6963 wrote: >I have recently acquired a USGS topo map of Pennsylvania at a scale of >1:500.00 and have heaved in the railroad system in black ink. I am in the >process of reconstructing the rail system as it existed in 1916 using old maps >and other sources. So far I have generally plotted the PRR, B&O, NYC, WM, >EL&W, LV, D&H, East Broad Top, and the Reading. The map sure gives a good >picture of railroading in Pennsylvania. My next project will be to do the same >with the 7.5 minute series maps which will give a lot more detail plus the >contour lines of abandonded trackage usually still shows on these maps which >provides an additional way to reconstruct the railroad lines. I have order the >28 maps that it takes to do the Middle Division from Harrisburg to Cresson and >hope to have the project done in time for the PRRT&HS meeting in Harrisburg at >the end of April. > > >Harold R. McGee >Gainesville, FL > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====49495455535153485455===1 Date: 13 Jan 98 09:14:51 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 3653 --====49515048505049565748===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" John -- thanks! Interesting! Was this pier to off-load ore from ships, or to dump it into them? Hard to believe there was enough ore left to "export", coming out of PA by even the turn of the century... could it have been some other type of ore? Does anyone know if iron ore was being imported from Canada way back then? It doesn't seem practical that ore boats from the Mesabi region would go through the Welland canal (and when was THAT opened?) in order to off-load at Sodus, when they could have put up at Erie and accomplished the same goal without spending another week or so, en route. -- Doug Drew Da72jmk wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-12 18:23:01 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: > ><< I believe the ore in the Mt. Carmel ore moves came from Erie, PA, on Lake > Erie, not Sodus Point, NY on Lake Ontario. I think there was only a coal > dump at Sodus, no ore unloader. > >> >That's correct for for the Weaver video (which was the topic of the >discussion), but there once was an "ore pier" at Sodus Point. Sometime before >1927, when the "new" coal pier was built, there were both "coal" and "ore" >piers. I have seen this on an old map of Sodus Point. I think it dated from >the early 1900's. > >John Keel --====49515048505049565748===1 From: SUVCW ORR Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:21:20 EST Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 1038 In a message dated 98-01-12 16:07:17 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << Has anyone tried putting the Bachmann boiler on the Bowser K4 frame? It would still have the lack of weight problem, but at least the valve gear might work correctly. The amount of cutting and fitting required might not be worth the effort, especially if Penn Line/Bowser took some liberties with the dimensions of the boiler, in order to fit the motor or drive. Too bad, I was thinking of picking up some Bachmann K4's at the West Springfield show. >> Bowser makes a re-power unit for the Bachman K-4. Just slip it in. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:47:35 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR (long) Content-Length: 1275 In a message dated 98-01-12 17:34:28 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << >What foreign road cars would be appropriate for 1900 through 1919?, 1920 >through 1939? 1940 through 1949? >> I have no evidence of any foreign cars used in ore service in any of these time periods. When discussing ore traffic on the PRR, one must remember that the ore moved from the mines to loading facilities on the Great Lakes and from unloading facilities to railcars at other GReat lakes ports. (see previous post on subject.) This movement makes it unlikely that the interchange of loaded cars would occur. The only foreign cars which could be used in ore service were foreign hoppers which happened to be available at the docks. In the absence of any photographic evidence any guess at the foreign roads would be conjecture based on probability. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 13 Jan 98 10:15:56 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 3037 --====48575457515250495754===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" ptrmgtsvc wrote: >2. PRR reached Bethlehem by routing North on the Bel-Del to Philipsburg >and then west on the Lehigh Valley. > >MEA True, but not for the famous "Shamokin Branch Ore trains". I guess it was felt there would be better utilization of the cars, or that it was a good idea to shift traffic to less-busy routes, or whatever by putting pairs of decapods fore and aft, and wrestling the ore trains up the Shamokin branch to Mt. Carmel to turn over to the Lehigh Valley to move to Beth Steel. Routing trains from Erie to Bethlehem via Harrisburg, Trenton and Phillipsburg would have meant a detour of over two hundred miles each way. Remember, the Lehigh Valley was controlled by PRR then, so they were keeping it all in the family, anyway. This operation was described in one of the "Steam in Indian Summer" articles by Morgan and Hastings, in TRAINS magazine in the late 50's. This series of articles were republished by Kalmbach as "The Mohawk That Refused to Abdicate, and Other Stories", now out of print. -- Doug Drew --====48575457515250495754===1 From: Hal6963 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:50:05 EST Subject: Topographic Map Index Content-Length: 659 An Index is available by state free of charge from the USGS at: USGS Information Service Box 25286 Denver, CO 80225 Or call: 1-800-USA-Maps The index also lists all map dealers in the State in the index. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:41:19 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Book: Electric Traction On The PRR 1895-1968 Content-Length: 478 Does anyone have a review of the above book? (Personal or commercial) ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 13:40:13 CST Subject: PRR ore trains Content-Length: 1099 Hi, all, There was one significant source of ore until quite recently just east-ne of Harrisburg, near Lebanon. The Cornwall & Lebanon and the Cornwall RR were shortlines built to access this ore, which I believe was owned by Bethlehem Steel. I believe this ore was mined into the 1960s and was headed for various Bethlehem plants (maybe Baltimore?). Did the PRR get any part of this, especially if it was headed for Sparrows Point? If I remember right, the RDG was the main connection for these shortlines. Anyone got the answer here? PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: K4 Pacific HO Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:40:34 -0600 Content-Length: 1293 Regarding various comments on performance of Bachmann, Bowser sells a specific conversion kit for this loco and tender. Don't know how easy a conversion, but I have been considering it --Bowser prices are relatively high, but they do run well. My Bowser K4 would probably outpull my three Bachmann's combined. I can't get my Bachmann's to run without a lope. I wonder if Bowser would supply without motor and deduct some --at least that would ease some of the $$burden of adding a Helix humper can motor. Regarding the passenger cars, I just replaced the wheels in my Rivarossi trucks that came with the Bethlehem Car Works "Matchless" kit with Jay-Bee all-metal blackened. Run like glass, among the best I have ever experienced, but I don't know about a lighted car. The last lighted Rivarossi Pullman I bought ran as-is considerably easier than previous. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 13:49:36 CST Subject: Huntingdon Content-Length: 2028 Hi, all, I'm sure there are folks out there with more knowledge on this but Huntingdon is interesting because the large empty area between the station and the tracks is (I think) where the original route of the rr ran. The r.o.w. today was originally the Main Line of Public Work AKA the Pennsylvania Canal. The station at Huntingdon was built while the canal still existed. When it was abandoned in the late 19th century, the PRR took over the canal bed. Just west of this area in Huntiongdon one can see the current CR (PRR) bridge, then next to it the remains of the canal aqueduct, then the well-preserved (and now abandoned) original PRR bridge. There were never any rr buildings here to my knowledge but the way to check would be to get a copy of the Sanborn Insurance Co. map of Huntingdon - it would surely show any buildings. And yes, there was four tracks through Huntingdon from sometime early in this century until sometime in the last twenty years. Also when discussing Huntingdon, don't forget the connection with the Huntingdon & Broad Top RR which came up from the south. The bridge across the Juniata that is still used to connect to an industrial park was originally built for the H&BT. There was an across-the-platform transfer for passengers. The H&BT ran south to Saxton and Bedford and served mines going after the same coal the East Broad Top was built to reach. Hope someone else can make this more accurate. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:58:11 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: B K4 with a tender drive Content-Length: 1708 At 04:32 PM 1/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I'll admit to not having tried this (since I don't even own a Bachmann K4), but>this list has been buzzing alot about getting Bachmann K4's to pull, sooo: Has>anyone tried to boost the power of a B K4 with a tender drive?? Something like>a Spud truck, or an Athearn Hustler drive or a Bachmann GE 44 tonner with 36 in>wheels. > >regards >Andy Miller The best combination seems to be a Bowser K4s with the Bachmann Tender. Then make the Bachmann K4 a static model. The Bowser model will cure the Bachmanns pulling power, the Bachmann will correct the Bowser tender type, with the pilot lowered closer to the track and the model sat in an engine house stall you get a minimization of losses over having invested in a Bachmann like so many have. (me too) The other alternative is to model the Parkton Local on the Northern Central. With this in mind you would only need two P70's (which is about all the Bachmann will realistically pull on a layout of any size) Presto! - prototype modeling for the wanting Bachmann product! ps If you lower the spring pressure on the lead truck to attempt to increase weight on drivers, they (Bachmann) track bad from my experience. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:00:17 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: Bachmann K4 Content-Length: 1104 At 11:52 PM 1/12/98 -0500, Jerry Shickler wrote: >Harry W. Fitch IV wrote: >> >> If I am following the E-mail on these Bachmann K4s models, then the later >> offering by Bachmann was touted as being a Baldwin built locomotive with >> the number 5475? >> ... > >My Spectrum K4 is #5425. >-- >Jerry Shickler >e-mail: geshick@velocity.net K4s #5425 would have been a Baldwin built engine. They were just a little shorter in the front end I believe than the Juniata built locomotives. How many road numbers did Bachmann produce? I stopped at 1361 when I found out she was a glamor girl with no practical performance. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:19:34 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1544 I wrote to PRR-Talk: >There once was an "ore pier" at Sodus Point. Sometime before >1927, when the "new" coal pier was built, there were both "coal" and "ore" >piers. I have seen this on an old map of Sodus Point. I think it dated from >the early 1900's. and ddrew@channing-bete.com wrote: << Was this pier to off-load ore from ships, or to dump it into them? Hard to believe there was enough ore left to "export", coming out of PA by even the turn of the century... could it have been some other type of ore? Does anyone know if iron ore was being imported from Canada way back then? It doesn't seem practical that ore boats from the Mesabi region would go through the Welland canal (and when was THAT opened?) in order to off-load at Sodus, when they could have put up at Erie and accomplished the same goal without spending another week or so, en route. -- Doug Drew >> Unfortunately, I don't have any further information. I can't even refer to the map, it's still packed from my recent move. I suspect that the ore pier and the original coal pier were small-time operations. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:36:00 -0500 From: "Bunger, James" Subject: K4 Pacific HO Content-Length: 1912 This is a great idea. Actually I remember hearing that some steamers ARE dummies and the tender does all the work. Also, I happened to look at MR last night and there was an ad for a Spectrum K4 (number 5425, not the one mentioned earlier). Is it possible that there was a non Spectrum and a Spectrum version of the K4. The Spectrum products I have seen (diesel) all seem to operate nicely and have no problems pulling. I thought that the S series was the good stuff with the Plus line marginal and plain Bachman equipment was destin for the toy market. Regards, James Bunger ---------- From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 4:32PM I'll admit to not having tried this (since I don't even own a Bachmann K4), but this list has been buzzing alot about getting Bachmann K4's to pull, sooo: Has anyone tried to boost the power of a B K4 with a tender drive?? Something like a Spud truck, or an Athearn Hustler drive or a Bachmann GE 44 tonner with 36 in wheels. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:06:41 -0500 Content-Length: 2962 Hi Andy, Bachmann don't pull real well but they also don't break the bank paying for them ! I had mine pull a fair size train for a local. (5 cars) But first I cut the dum wipers off the cars. (to much like Lionel) Then I made sure the axle fit and the wheel sets were true, before oiling the journals. Then the "K".....first I filed the drivers smooth......(this takes time) while they were running (engine upside down, watch the rods and value gear) I checked the front and rear trucks for the something as the cars. Then I took the body off of the frame........I put a strip of electrical tape on the top of the drive. ( to make sure I didn't later short something out) Then I took some moldable weight material and filled every place that I could, while fitting the boiler on the frame every once and a wile, to make sue it fit. I put weight in the stack, under the cab roof, in the domes, any place it would fit. Next, put the boiler on the frame and see how it sits......It should balance on the center to last driver, for the best pulling power. o O ,O O oo Good luck.... But the very best way to get a Bachmann to run is to put a "Bowser drive under it and put a ALCO Products " Helix - Humper" motor with a flywheel in it.......I just finished a remoter job on a Penn Line L1 that is super detailed.. It has never run this good !!!!! Then of course there is Brass ! Some of it runs nice, but most don't until you rebuild them. Goo Luck Bill Knepper SPF...(End of the Northern Central...New Freedom, Pa.) :>) ---------- > From: Andrew S. Miller > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 4:32 PM > > > I'll admit to not having tried this (since I don't even own a Bachmann K4), but > this list has been buzzing alot about getting Bachmann K4's to pull, sooo: Has > anyone tried to boost the power of a B K4 with a tender drive?? Something like > a Spud truck, or an Athearn Hustler drive or a Bachmann GE 44 tonner with 36 in > wheels. > > regards > Andy Miller > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:19:00 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 578 Plans and photos of the G38 & G39 Ore Cars were in the Rails Northeast July/August 1975 issue pages 35-40. Hoppers were in RNE 5/78 (H21A, H25), and 6/78 (H31, H35). ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:46:44 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Cabin Cars - Jerry, want to post? Content-Length: 4343 I found this list in my papers, don't know if anyone is interested. Jerry, If you want to feel free to post on web site. PRR CABIN CAR CONDENSED ROSTER, MAY 15, 1957 CLASS NUMBER SERIES CARS CLASS NUMBER SERIES CARS ND 476039, 476087, N6b 478315,478326 2 476419, 476460 4 980000 - 980020 15 15 980033, 980040 2 NDa 479815 1 980100 - 980l89 64 980225 - 980243 8 N5 476993 - 477619 571 980261 - 980263 3 478501 - 478519 17 980300 - 980318 18 478876 - 478888 13 980335 - 980358 21 479702 - 479717 15 980406 - 980414 5 total 616 980427 1 980502, 980503 2 N5a 477110, 477267, 980526 - 980565 29 477292, 477587 4 980650, 980651 2 980670 1 N5b 477620 - 477819 200 980700 - 980955 192 981000 - 981008 7 N5c 477820 - 478019 199 981101 - 981140 27 981201 - 981220 13 N5d 477184 1 981301 - 981331 19 981379, 981380 2 N5e 477594 1 981500 - 981540 31 981575 - 981593 13 N5f 477150, 477217, 981650 - 981854 154 477227, 477335, 982001 - 982243 177 477439, 477457, 982400 - 982419 15 478503, 479701 8 982460 - 982476 12 982497 1 N6a 980229 1 9828oo - 982804 5 982825, 982826 2 N8 478020 - 478219 199 982850 1 983001, 983002 2 NX23 478520 - 478575 12 983024 1 983045 - 983071 20 total: 867 PRR CABIN CAR REGIONAL ASSIGNMENT SUMMARY, MAY 15, 1957 -REGION ND NDa N5 N5a N5b N5c N5d N5e N5f N6a N6b N8 NX23 TOTAL Buckeye 36 29 20 122 44 251 Chesapeake 1 1 42 9 9 1 8 93 15 1 180 Lake 124 28 19 120 28 319 New York 1 33 1 1 14 23 9 2 84 Northern 94 1 17 35 57 1 205 northwestern 4 1 16 9 1 173 11 215 Philadelphia 82 1 6 11 74 26 200 Pittsburgh 2 196 89 78 1 114 57 8 545 Southwestern 5 5 4 114 Total 4 1 616 4 200 199 1 1 8 1 867 199 12 2113 1 - The above lists do not include seven class N5 passenger cabin cars numbered: 5001, 5010- 5013, 5015 and 5018. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:38:20 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller" Subject: Re: Huntingdon Module Content-Length: 2504 At 08:52 PM 1/12/98 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >I am planning a module of Huntingdon in the Middle Division. The time period I >am modeling is 1916, however I intend to have some interchangeable buildings >to allow switching to the 1940s and back. I stopped there on the way to >Railfest last fall and took some photographs of Hunt Tower, the recently >restored depot, and the lone passenger shelter. I'm letting myself in for "polite corrections" here, but I'm pretty sure that the "lone passenger shelter" is actually the Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain's passenger station ... as I recall my info, it was at the end of a small stub-end interchange yard (H&MTM handed over coal there to the PRR). If you're modeling ca. 1916, you'll certainly need to address that line's presence ... HUNT tower controlled the jct. of the line w/ the PRR as well as at least one other jct. farther west toward Spruce Creek tunnel. >I am looking for some >additional photos and information ... a large amount of open space between >the depot and the tower which >probably had additional railroad related buildings. I am wondering if there >were not larger passenger shelters on both sides of the double track main at >one time. FOUR TRACK main, and it the tracks passed closer to the front of the depot, making that S-curve east of the depot more pronounced. It was eased at a date which escapes me. Good luck, Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA vagelk@usaor.net THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk _||_||_ || || || || || ||\ || || || || ||_||\\ /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ o x o x o x o . . . \/ \ \\ o _____ | | / \ >][_n_n_|HH] /====___ ________ ________ (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/| _/o OOOO o` oo oo 'oo oo' 'oo oo' ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:03:55 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: Bachmann K-4s and Bowser kits Content-Length: 1582 Hello folks.... Here is some info on the kits Bowser makes for the Bachmann K-4s. In case some of you did'nt get this info...I have two Bachmann K-4s s and a Bowser (a old Penn Line) K-4s. Both mechs on my Bachmanns just did'nt hold up or did'nt perform well. So far i have retro fitted one of them with the Bowser mech kit they make just for a Bachmann K-4s..The design of this kit is very close to the regular mech for their K-4s.Some of the parts between the two are interchangeable. After some break-in time it runs well and can pull more cars than the old Bachmann mech did...also the engine ends up a wee bit more heavier too. You can use either type (Bowser)pilot with this mech also. Here is the kit number if anyone wants it. The kit number is #3-200 Their 15 th reference manual lists it for 71.95 ,but you can get it cheaper from hobby shops...I ordered mine from Train world in New York and i think if i remember right it was at least 15.00 cheaper than what Bowser listed. hopes this helps those in need... Til Later Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:33:36 -0500 Content-Length: 2201 Greetings All, We here at Liberty Model Productions have asked for your input as to what types of models and in what scale(s) you want them. The response has been excellent ! Thank you. Now I am going to ask a couple of add'l questions regarding a product we have decided to produce and have begun working on. In response to numerous requests, we have decided to produce the BP 20 Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & B units). This choice should please many of you ! These are going to be done in HO scale. Now, we have the following ideas at hand and would like to have your comments and suggestions on the following; We are looking at the idea of using Atlas 5 pole, skew wound motors, with large flywheels in both the A and the B units. Directional lighting, lighted number boards, and either Digitrax decoder equipped or ready (you tell us what you would like), cab interior, complete photo-etched details( side grilles etc) seperate M.U. hoses, real (soft) rubber diaphragms and whatever else YOU the consumer deem appropriate. No final decision has been made on 90% of what has been mention here for equipment, as we want to hear from YOU ! We will most likely offer built and painted sets to you on a "Reserve Order" basis, and when those are completed, any add'l orders would be for 'kits' only. We will put together a list of features in approx. 3 weeks. In this time, we will decide based on YOUR input. We will also be able to then put an approx. cost of these sets out. Since only brass models exist, and one must pay around $ 400 - $ 600 for a painted pair, I can tell you that our goal is to be in the neighborhood of half of that ! I'm looking forward to hearing from all of you !!! Joe Zappa, Liberty Model productions ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com (Michael E. Allen) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:27:11 EST Content-Length: 1985 I would imagine that it really depends on where the ore is coming from. I can recall seeing movements north through Washington's Crossing in the mid-sixties so I suspect this may have been ore from Philadelphia MEA. ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com Management Services Telephone 609-683-0356 On 13 Jan 98 10:15:56 -0500 Doug Drew writes: >ptrmgtsvc wrote: > >>2. PRR reached Bethlehem by routing North on the Bel-Del to >Philipsburg >>and then west on the Lehigh Valley. >> >>MEA > >True, but not for the famous "Shamokin Branch Ore trains". I guess it >was >felt there would be better utilization of the cars, or that it was a >good >idea to shift traffic to less-busy routes, or whatever by putting >pairs >of decapods fore and aft, and wrestling the ore trains up the Shamokin >branch to Mt. Carmel to turn over to the Lehigh Valley to move to Beth >Steel. >Routing trains from Erie to Bethlehem via Harrisburg, Trenton and >Phillipsburg would have meant a detour of over two hundred miles each >way. >Remember, the Lehigh Valley was controlled by PRR then, so they were >keeping it >all in the family, anyway. This operation was described in one of the >"Steam in Indian Summer" articles by Morgan and Hastings, in TRAINS >magazine in >the late 50's. This series of articles were republished by Kalmbach as >"The Mohawk That Refused to Abdicate, and Other Stories", now out of >print. >-- Doug Drew > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael DiMaio" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:41:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Bachmann K-4s and Bowser kits Content-Length: 2853 I had the dubious distinction of building a bowser retrofit kit for this loco before Bowser had issued it. One way to increase the weight of the plastic shell is to fill the shell with white glue and pour in buckshot. It will end up weighing more than a version taht uses the weights Bowser supplies. Better yet, buy a Bowser K-4 or, even better, find a Penn line K-4. One has enough problems gettinga Bowser to run w/o adding the addditional problems put forward by a retrofiting a Bachmann. We all know how much fin it is getting binds out of a bowser mechanism! Good luck with your project. > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:03:55 -0500 (EST) > To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com > From: bubbles@visi.net > Subject: Bachmann K-4s and Bowser kits > Hello folks.... > > Here is some info on the kits Bowser makes for the Bachmann K-4s. > In case some of you did'nt get this info...I have two Bachmann K-4s s > and a Bowser (a old Penn Line) K-4s. Both mechs on my Bachmanns just > did'nt hold up or did'nt perform well. > So far i have retro fitted one of them with the Bowser mech kit > they make just for a Bachmann K-4s..The design of this kit is very close > to the regular mech for their K-4s.Some of the parts between the two > are interchangeable. After some break-in time it runs well and can > pull more cars than the old Bachmann mech did...also the engine ends > up a wee bit more heavier too. You can use either type (Bowser)pilot with > this mech also. > Here is the kit number if anyone wants it. The kit number is #3-200 > Their 15 th reference manual lists it for 71.95 ,but you can get it > cheaper from hobby shops...I ordered mine from Train world in New York > and i think if i remember right it was at least 15.00 cheaper than > what Bowser listed. hopes this helps those in need... > > Til Later > > Hank Mummert > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 07:25:38 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1071 On 1/13/98 10:33 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: >In response to numerous requests, we have decided to produce the BP 20 >Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & B units). This choice should please >many of you ! 8-( I wanted BP-60s...the passenger sharks...which are longer. One can still find the Model Power sharks and repaint them for freight service. But, other than brass, passenger sharks are nowhere to be found! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:40:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 520 Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the BP20's were the longer Sharks not like the freight sharks. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 08:44:36 -0500 Content-Length: 1993 Joe, Good choice (but you knew that). Here are my comments. 1. Since this engine only ran on the PRR, don't forget the trainphone antennae. 2. Make the headlight and number board lights constant voltage and directional. Also consider constant voltage with a hidden switch to turn the lights on or off or under directional control. That way a back-to-back pair of A units won't have the lead unit's lights go out just to back up to the train! 3. At least four paint schemes exist that I know of: a. DGLE 5 stripe - no nose stipes b. Tuscan - 5 stripe c. DGLE freight scheme (BF20z) d. "dieing days" broad stripe The last two schemes should be put on locos with the ugly nose ladder. That ladder LOOKS like a ferderal regulation! I scratch built a BP20 years ago and put it on a stretched Hobbytown PA drive. It has waited 20 years for a mate (A or B or both). Being a Hobbytown, it pulls very well, but looks silly with one unit pulling 15 cars! Therefore: 4. Dummies would be appreciated. 5. Make the loco DCC ready, but don't provide the receiver. Not all of us use the stuff (yet) and I would not want to pay an extra $50-100 for a peice of electronics that I would have to cut out! 6. I hate to waste PRR band width by mentioning this (and I won't buy one), but once you have the mechanism available in you production line, the "baby face" Baldwins will fit perfectly. The prototypes were the same Baldwin loco with a different body shell. That would make CNJ and SAL (and others?) fans happy. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 08:47:48 -0500 Content-Length: 1003 On 1/13/98 10:33 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: >In response to numerous requests, we have decided to produce the BP 20 >Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & B units). This choice should please >many of you ! 8-( I wanted BP-60s...the passenger sharks...which are longer. One can still find the Model Power sharks and repaint them for freight service. But, other than brass, passenger sharks are nowhere to be found! - --------- The BP-20 IS the passenger Shark. The BP-60 is the Centipede The freight sharks are BF15 or BF16. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 8:49:53 EST From: Subject: fwd: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 1650 ------------- Original Text From: K KOLLAR@DS@193SOW, on 1/14/98 8:39 AM: To: SMTP@193SOG@PAMDT[] I didn't want to be the first to say anything because I'm not the comsumate Baldwin expert but I thought they were too. As the locomotives came from Baldwin they were designated DR-6-4-2000. And isn't it coorect that the PRR class designation would convert that to BP20. B for Baldwin, P for passenger & 20 for the unit's 2000 horsepower rating. When they were downgraded to freight service beginning in 1952 they should then be called BP16 (correct?), since the motors were derated to 1600hp. --------- From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com, on 1/14/98 7:40 AM: Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the BP20's were the longer Sharks not like the freight sharks. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:59:39 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: Huntingdon Module Content-Length: 2123 >I'm letting myself in for "polite corrections" here, but I'm pretty sure >that the "lone passenger shelter" is actually the Huntingdon & Broad Top >Mountain's passenger station True. It had a roof over the platform at both east and west ends, if I recall correctly from early photos. >If you're modeling ca. 1916, you'll certainly need to address that line's >presence ... HUNT tower controlled the jct. of the line w/ the PRR as well >as at least one other jct. farther west toward Spruce Creek tunnel. Not sure if this was true in 1916. There's a crossover at DEER at the west end of Huntingdon yard that was remote I think from Hunt in 1916 but the next full interlocking/junction was at PETE still further west at Petersburg. That's where the H&P branched off to Hollidaysburg. It was controlled by PETE tower in 1916. >>I am looking for some >>additional photos and information Contact the Huntingdon County Transportation Society--they are in charge of the restored HUNT tower, or the Huntingdon Co. Historical Society. They're both probably available thru directory assistance. > I am wondering if there >>were not larger passenger shelters on both sides of the double track main at >>one time. Yes. Lots of good photos in the HUNT tower display reveal this and other neat little details. >FOUR TRACK main, and it the tracks passed closer to the front of the depot, >making that S-curve east of the depot more pronounced. It was eased at a >date which escapes me. At one time, the mainline (2 tracks) ran on the opposite side of the station and just about right over the site of HUNT tower. This was before the turn of the century line relocation. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:03:40 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: Book: Electric Traction On The PRR 1895-1968 Content-Length: 528 >Does anyone have a review of the above book? (Personal or commercial) I wrote it. It's a great book. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 8:07:00 -0600 Subject: Feedback on HO project...... -Reply Content-Length: 2089 >>> "liberty@infonline.net" 01/14/98 07:40am wrote in part>>> >We here at Liberty Model Productions have asked for your >input as to what types of models and in what scale(s) you >want them. The response has been excellent ! Thank you. >In response to numerous requests, we have decided to >produce the BP 20 Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & >B units). This choice should please many of you ! Great News! THANK YOU.... >We are looking at the idea of using Atlas 5 pole, skew >wound motors, with large flywheels in both the A and >the B units. Directional lighting, lighted number boards, >and either Digitrax decoder equipped or ready (you >tell us what you would like), cab interior, complete >photo-etched details(side grilles etc) seperate M.U. >hoses, real (soft) rubber diaphragms and whatever >else YOU the consumer deem appropriate. Good choices, especially the large flywheels and powering both A and B units. I would like to see you make them DCC ready with DCC socket so that we could either run them on conventional DC or add the DCC decoder of our own choice. >We will most likely offer built and painted sets to you on >a "Reserve Order" basis, and when those are completed, >any add'l orders would be for 'kits' only. Being able to "Reserve Order" either the built/painted units or kits would be a nice option. >Since only brass models exist, and one must pay around >$ 400 - $ 600 for a painted pair, I can tell you that our goal >is to be in the neighborhood of half of that ! When can I place my "Reserve Order" for two sets? Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 10:10:26 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 950 On 1/14/98 9:47 AM, Andrew S. Miller (asmiller@mail11.mitre.org) wrote: >The BP-20 IS the passenger Shark. >The BP-60 is the Centipede >The freight sharks are BF15 or BF16. Yeah, as I just e-mailed "Liberty", I must've had my head in the sand when I sent that. Duh! I AM pleased they will be doing the BP20s. However, I also want BP60s!!!! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:12:10 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1902 SUVCWORR@AOL.Com writes: In a message dated 98-01-12 17:34:28 EST, ddrew@channing-bete.com writes: << What foreign road cars would be appropriate for 1900 through 1919?, 1920 through 1939? 1940 through 1949? >> And Rich Orr answered In a message dated 98-01-13 18:36:55 EST: << I have no evidence of any foreign cars used in ore service in any of these time periods. ... In the absence of any photographic evidence any guess at the foreign roads would be conjecture based on probability. Rich Orr >> In the Winter 1987 Keystone, there are several pictures of ore docks in Ashtabula, Cleveland, and Erie. In pictures taken in PRR times (identified by the absence of ore jennies or cars lettered PC or Conrail), I see the following cars: LOTS of PRR four-bay hoppers a few PRR two-bay hoppers a string of L & N gondolas one Erie offset side (two-bay?) hopper at least two or three hoppers from roads other than PRR which cannot be identified. (They are too small to read the lettering, but either the car type or lettering arrangement does not match PRR practice.) There's also a picture taken circa 1900-1910 and another taken in 1910, but I can't read the lettering on any of the cars. This issue is still available from the PRRT&HS. It also has an article about Baltimore and Eastern operations on the Delmarva Peninsula and (my favorite) an article about the PRR/NYC pool trains on the Elmira branch. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Pennsylvania Railroad Maps Project (fwd) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 9:13:56 EST Content-Length: 1547 > I have recently acquired a USGS topo map of Pennsylvania at a scale of > 1:500.00 and have heaved in the railroad system in black ink. I am in the > process of reconstructing the rail system as it existed in 1916 using old maps > and other sources. So far I have generally plotted the PRR, B&O, NYC, WM, > EL&W, LV, D&H, East Broad Top, and the Reading. The map sure gives a good > picture of railroading in Pennsylvania. My next project will be to do the same > with the 7.5 minute series maps which will give a lot more detail plus the > contour lines of abandonded trackage usually still shows on these maps which > provides an additional way to reconstruct the railroad lines. I have order the > 28 maps that it takes to do the Middle Division from Harrisburg to Cresson and > hope to have the project done in time for the PRRT&HS meeting in Harrisburg at > the end of April. > Harold R. McGee Knock yourself out, but may I suggest that 5 cent legal-size copies can still be found, and that 3 legal-size copies is more than enough to get you across _any_ 7.5-minute series map. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:45:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 617 I guess I came in too late for the survey. I probably would have voted on the Baldwin and/or the Lima Centercab. I am one the oddballs that prefer freight operations to passenger trains. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Trenton Cutoff? (fwd) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 9:54:15 EST Content-Length: 1343 > According to my most recent [Jan 1 1996] CR ETT the connection between > the Cut-Off [CR Morrisville Line] and the Reading Main [CR Harrisburg > Line is by way of a connection at CP-KING to the Morrisville Connecting > Track to CP-KING on the Septa Norristown Line then to CP-KALB to > CP-NORRIS on the Harrisburg Line > MEA > ______________________________ > PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.com > Management Services Telephone > 609-683-0356 > >>From the west, up to the Schuylkill and just a little beyond is now > >:-( > >unsignalled single track. From there east, a new connection was made > >("NEST") from the Reading main, and the remainder is single track with > >passing sidings, and signalled, to Morrisville Yard. "MEA", thanks for throwing in the new Conrail terminology. I was using older PRR terminology. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Cabin Cars - Jerry, want to post? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 09:58:23 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1287 Tom V. scanned in the list and posted it to the list a while ago. It's from Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad, by Robert L. Johnson and Gary C. Rauch, The Keystone, December. 1973, pp. 3-12. I already have it on my web page @ www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/freight/PRRCabins.shtml along with some other cabin car references and info that Tom sent me. Rob ---------------------------------- I found this list in my papers, don't know if anyone is interested. Jerry, If you want to feel free to post on web site. PRR CABIN CAR CONDENSED ROSTER, MAY 15, 1957 CLASS NUMBER SERIES CARS CLASS NUMBER SERIES CARS ND 476039, 476087, N6b 478315,478326 2 476419, 476460 4 980000 - 980020 15 15 ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Huntingdon Module (fwd) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:00:19 EST Content-Length: 1810 > I'm letting myself in for "polite corrections" here, but I'm pretty sure > that the "lone passenger shelter" is actually the Huntingdon & Broad Top > Mountain's passenger station ... as I recall my info, it was at the end of a > small stub-end interchange yard (H&MTM handed over coal there to the PRR). > If you're modeling ca. 1916, you'll certainly need to address that line's > presence ... HUNT tower controlled the jct. of the line w/ the PRR as well > as at least one other jct. farther west toward Spruce Creek tunnel. Vagel, that jct. farther west is/was "PETE" interlocking, near Petersburg, Pa. This is where the Hollidaysburg & Petersburg Branch veers off nearly straight west (after some nasty bends) to follow the Juniata River (and incidentally the original route of the canal) to Hollidaysburg, WYE tower, and up the mountain via the Mule Shoe (New Portage Br.) to SF interlocking just east of the tunnels ... whereas the PRR main veers off WNW, following the Little Juniata R., toward Spruce Creek. It's funny, you know. Looking at the towns along US 22 and the H&P Branch, one can tell that they look "older" than the ones along the PRR. The design of the roads, streets, buildings, etc. give it away as such. Anyone here ever been to Foot of Ten, Pa., the start of the first (or end of the last) inclined plane of the original Portage RR? -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Book: Electric Traction On The PRR 1895-1968 (fwd) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:07:43 EST Content-Length: 1065 > > >Does anyone have a review of the above book? (Personal or commercial) > > I wrote it. > It's a great book. Mike is being modest. It really is a good book. It is an abridgement of Mike's dissertation. True to Grad Student tradition, he now does nothing resembling his graduate work. I.e, Gown does not prepare you for Town. :-) But seriously, get the book. Being it originated as a scholarly work, it is "dry" in comparison to most RR books, which of course are written, grammar errors and all, for a different audience. But it's a "good dry", not a "bad dry" a la some other books I own. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Book: Electric Traction On The PRR 1895-1968 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 10:12:34 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 741 >>Does anyone have a review of the above book? (Personal or commercial) > >I wrote it. > >It's a great book. > >Mike Nothing like a truly unbiased review! :-) I have to agree with Mike though, it's a must have for electrification fans! Rob ------------------------------------- http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 10:28:08 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1640 >On 11 Jan, Da72jmk wrote:> > >>> In a message dated 98-01-11 15:40:47 EST, Hal6963@AOL.COM writes: >> >> << Are there any sourses of ore in Pennsylvania? >> >> >> Philadelphia import pier. Also Hulett unloaders in Cleveland and Ashtabula >> (maybe others) were on-line to the PRR.> > >This is something I've been curious about for a while now: >since they're gons and not hoppers, how are the ore jennies >unloaded? Rotary dumper? Manual labor (shovels)? Front >(un)loader? Giant Electrolux? Speaking of ore jennies, is Conrail still using them? A few years ago Conrail was running dirt trains here in northern New Jersey using two solid strings of them. Many didn't even have roller bearings. (There were empty packages of motor oil all over from refilling the bearings!) At the time I was told that at the end of the project all of the cars without roller bearings were going to be scrapped. A while after this I heard that due to cracks appearing in the frames CR was going to retire all of them. Just wondering if this happened and how many are still on the roster. Just wondering... Rob ------------------------------------- http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:33:12 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 814 > 6. I hate to waste PRR band width by mentioning this (and I won't buy one), but > once you have the mechanism available in you production line, the "baby face" > Baldwins will fit perfectly. The prototypes were the same Baldwin loco with a > different body shell. That would make CNJ and SAL (and others?) fans happy. Not to mention said nose can be reused for the Centipedes;-) -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:35:19 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 787 > I guess I came in too late for the survey. I probably would have > voted on the Baldwin and/or the Lima Centercab. I am one the oddballs that > prefer freight operations to passenger trains. One of these days I'll do that Baldwin centercab kitbash and get some photos for publication. I got the tools I still needed for Christmas; Maybe next month.... -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:26 -0600 Subject: Baldwin Passenger Sharks Content-Length: 647 I had heard of another manufacturer planning on doing the Passenger Sharks. I don't know if that is true or not I would hate to see two models out at the same time. It could be a disaster aka the SD40-2 and the RS-3. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:58:18 -0600 Subject: BP20s' Content-Length: 648 I had heard of another manufacturer planning of doing the passenger sharks. I don't know if that is true or not but I would hate to see two identical models come out at the same time (example the SD40-2 and the RS-3). Randy ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:59:04 -0600 Content-Length: 818 Andrew Miller wrote: "3. At least four paint schemes exist that I know of: a. DGLE 5 stripe - no nose stipes b. Tuscan - 5 stripe c. DGLE freight scheme (BF20z) d. "dieing days" broad stripe" Between a and b should be inserted "DGLE 5 stripe, including nose)" which I thought (perhaps incorrectly) superseded "a" fairly quickly. That wins my vote for my era . Regards, Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:37:23 -0600 Content-Length: 994 Sometime in late 50's (I will get exact issue tonight) Trains magazine ran an extensive article on PRR ore traffic. At the time it was mostly Philly import ore, but other traffic was described. Photos and descriptions were of transition from doubleheaded M1s to diesel. Even if Missabi range was limitless, economics rule, and mills buy lowest delivered price. Places like northern Sweden have extensive deposits. I did not work for that division, but Allis-Chalmers cement and mining division had a large subsidiary in Sweden (still exists as a separate company). Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael B. Dettinger" Subject: Re: K4 Pacific HO Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:50:42 -0500 (EST) Content-Length: 2074 > Regarding various comments on performance of Bachmann, Bowser sells a specific conversion kit for this loco and tender. Don't know how easy a conversion, but I have been considering it --Bowser prices are relatively high, but they do run well. My Bowser K4 would probably outpull my three Bachmann's combined. > I can't get my Bachmann's to run without a lope. > I wonder if Bowser would supply without motor and deduct some --at least that would ease some of the $$burden of adding a Helix humper can motor. > I called up ALCO (the Helix Humper People) and got a product sheet. Appearently they have a motor replacement kit for Bachmann Spectrums. I have not tried this, or even looked into this, but assuming that you can get the Bachmann mechanism running smooth this would be a lower cost alternative. Mike -- ============================================================================= Michael B. Dettinger Voice: (215) 898-9512 Technical Support Analyst Fax : (215) 573-4021 Client Services Group Email: detting@isc.upenn.edu Information System Computing Mail : Suite 202A, 3820 Locust University of Pennsylvania High Rise East HTTP://pobox.upenn.edu/~detting Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 ============================================================================= ISC Client Services Group "How may we help you?" U of P Computer Support help@isc.upenn.edu Fax: (215) 573-4021 Voice: (215) 573-4778 ============================================================================= ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 14:31:47 EST From: Subject: Maint of Way decals Content-Length: 821 Does anyone know if PRR Maintenance of Way decals are made, ie Pennsylvania in black letters? Also when steam wreck cranes were assigned an old tender, was there some kind of permanent 'hook-up' for water to be transferred into the steam derrick? Same question goes for the coal that was used to fire up the crane? or did that require a strong back and big biceps to get the job done? Kris Kollar ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:47:13 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1353 On 14 Jan, Jerry wrote: > On 1/13/98 10:33 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: > > >In response to numerous requests, we have decided to produce the BP 20 > >Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & B units). This choice should please > >many of you ! > > I wanted BP-60s...the passenger sharks...which are longer. > > One can still find the Model Power sharks and repaint them for freight > service. But, other than brass, passenger sharks are nowhere to be found! The same goes for N scale, even though you're not considering them now. deLuxe Innovations has recently produced a nicely detailed freight shark shell to fit an Atlas mechanism. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:49:21 -0600 Subject: PRR FREIGHT TRAIN SYMBOLS Content-Length: 581 Does anybody know how the PRR came up with their symbols for freight trains? I understand some of them but for the most part they leave me in the dark. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:55:07 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 2173 >I would imagine that it really depends on where the ore is coming from. I >can recall seeing movements north through Washington's Crossing in the >mid-sixties so I suspect this may have been ore from Philadelphia In the fifties ore for Beth's steel Bethlehem Plant came from the Missabe range in Minnesota. Unloaded at Erie from lake boats trains ran from there to Bethlehem via the PRR line from Erie to Northumberland, Northumberland to Mt. Carmel to the LV interchange. The LV split up the 9000 ton trains into 2 or 3 trains at Mt. Carmel on account of the steeper grades they had to deal with to get to Hazelton. From Hazelton to M & H junction on the LV main to Allentown from there to Bethlehem. In 1959 Beth steel opened their Grace mine near Johanna Pa. on the Readings Wilmington and Northern Br. The ore from here replaced the Missabe ore from Erie for the Bethlehem plant. There was other ore that was shipped to Bethlehem. Import ore from the Reading RR facility in Phila from Venezuela this ore traveled the Bethlehem Br. Additional import ore also arrived at the PRR's Phila pier 124 at Greenwich Yd. This ore traveled the main from Phila. to Trenton then on the Bel Del line to Phillipsburg where the LV picked it up for delivery to Bethlehem. There's still more ore traffic from Phila. Import raw ore from Venezuela and Labrador from Phila. west on the PRR to Saxonburg on the B & LE for processing . This ore started in 1959 or 1960 and was I believe the reason for the G-38/39 jennies being built. These trains are the ones that traversed Horse Shoe Curve. There was also import ore destined for the Rankin plant of US Steel near Pittsburgh. Hope this helps. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:12:57 EST Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 1223 In a message dated 98-01-14 08:49:58 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: << I didn't want to be the first to say anything because I'm not the comsumate Baldwin expert but I thought they were too. As the locomotives came from Baldwin they were designated DR-6-4-2000. And isn't it coorect that the PRR class designation would convert that to BP20. B for Baldwin, P for passenger & 20 for the unit's 2000 horsepower rating. When they were downgraded to freight service beginning in 1952 they should then be called BP16 (correct?), since the motors were derated to 1600hp. >> Freight shark 1500 hp DR 4-4-1500 BF15 Freight shark 1600 hp RF - 16 BF16 Passenger shark 2000 hp DR 6-4-2000 BP20 Downgraded passenger shark 1600 hp DR 6-4-2000 BF16z Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: PRR Maps: Pgh Div done Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:13:43 EST Content-Length: 674 Greetings! Thanks to John Cooper's work, Pittsburgh Division mainlines are now done, save for one map I have to rescan because of problems. Pitcairn Yard will be next, then Monongahela Division and we'll be done with the Pittsburgh- area stuff. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:03:26 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: Book: Electric Traction On The PRR 1895-1968 (fwd) Content-Length: 843 Thanks to all about the book, appreciate all comments - I found the book on a list for a reasonable price ($10), so I bought it without knowing anything about it (I haven't bought an Eastern RR book in a long time, explaining the lack of knowledge). Thanks also to all concerning the cabin car list - I found it in a bunch of papers with no reference attached - sorry for the duplication (several times over). Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Some additions Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 20:21:09 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 1398 Sorry if your access to the site was slow tonight. I was scanning. Updated the Level One track plan for my layout. Mark Bej: I think you'll like the improvements. Parkton is added. Hanover Junction is removed (out of service anyway). New Freedom is expanded with possible expansion. Allowed for future expansion and operation of Frederick Branch. (See http://prr.dsop.com/layout/index.html) Added nine photos of Hank Mummert's layout. (See http://prr.dsop.com/layouts/index.html) Added two fantastic shots of the Harrisburg Passenger Station, circa 1930-1937. (See http://prr.dsop.com/photos/index.html) RELATED: Added a few photos (more coming) on the site of the Keystone Model Railroad Historical Society. (See http://kmrhs.dsop.com/index.html) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:18:54 EST Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 935 In a message dated 98-01-13 17:36:44 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: << Columbus, Youngstown, Alliquipa, Ambridge, Midland, Homestead, Duquesne, Monongahela, Donora, Johnstown, Gary IN, Phladelphia, Baltimore, Buffalo, Cleveland, McKeesport, Beaver, Beaver Falls, >> Don't know a thing about steel production in PA so excuse the question if its a dumb one, but didn't the mills in Bethlehem or Steelton, PA produce steel from raw ore? >> Yes. The list provided was not all enclusive. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Knepper" Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project......BP- WHAT ? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:32:29 -0500 Content-Length: 2226 Jerry, :-( According to page 223 of the Bible " Pennsy Power II " the Passenger Sharks were BP-20, which were originally class "BP-3".....also check out pages 258 to 261.......You may want to hid on that one ! :>) Freight Sharks were BF15, BF15a, BF16, & ABF18.......also Passenger Sharks that were down rater and regeared were BF16z.... I'd really like to see a picture of the ( " BP_60 " ) ?????? Bill ps: don't model them on the Northern Central please...... ---------- > From: Jerry > To: Liberty ; PRR-Talk > Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 6:25 AM > > On 1/13/98 10:33 PM, Liberty (liberty@infonline.net) wrote: > > >In response to numerous requests, we have decided to produce the BP 20 > >Baldwin "Sharknose" diesel (Both A & B units). This choice should please > >many of you ! > > > 8-( > > I wanted BP-60s...the passenger sharks...which are longer. > > One can still find the Model Power sharks and repaint them for freight > service. But, other than brass, passenger sharks are nowhere to be found! > > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: HO E-R Models sharks: part number Content-Length: 558 The RF16 Sharks being imported by E-R Models later this year finally have a part number: 4101 for the Pennsy sharks. No price yet, though. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:02:20 -0500 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 1751 Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Speaking of ore jennies, is Conrail still using them? A few years ago Conrail > was running dirt trains here in northern New Jersey using two solid strings of them. > Many didn't even have roller bearings. (There were empty packages of motor oil all over > from refilling the bearings!) At the time I was told that at the end of the project > all of the cars without roller bearings were going to be scrapped. > A while after this I heard that due to cracks appearing in the frames CR was going to > retire all of them. Just wondering if this happened and how many are still on the > roster. Conrail isn't using them in ore service. I know they were using them for the dirt trains from a few years back, but I saw strings of them in Youngstown at a scrap yard being cut up. (I can't remember what the name of the scrap dealer is, but it's the one that you can see off of the Route 711/Division Street bridge, near Ohio Junction on the B&O.) I'm pretty sure that most, if not all of them, are now gone. Later, -Jer -- Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: HO Custom Painting Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:23:03 -0500 Content-Length: 723 Hi, all! Any members of the list who do custom commercial HO painting? I have an old ALCO Models DD-1 in brass that I would like to get painted in the whiskers scheme, preferably lettered for LIRR. Contact me off-line. Made Complete Richard F. Makse Twinney Pond Associates maxrail@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Huntingdon Module (fwd) Content-Length: 1237 On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Mark D Bej wrote: > Anyone here ever been to Foot of Ten, Pa., the start of the first (or end > of the last) inclined plane of the original Portage RR? For years I didn't understand that name; Then I learned about the old portage railroad, and started tracing its path, and seeing what I could of the old planes. And then I discovered I could get up to the Muleshoe Curve bridge in the car, crossed it, got to a locked gate, backed back across, and drove down the new portage line to (i think?) pa 764.... Was fun exploring back then. I'd love to find a way to get a better look at the old "new portage" row south and east of new us 22; the obvious choice of roads was severed by the construction and i've had no real luck otherwise. i suppose i could hike it from 22..... -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:53:03 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller" Subject: Re: Huntingdon Module Content-Length: 2008 At 08:59 AM 1/14/98 -0500, I wrote: >>HUNT tower controlled the jct. of the line w/ the PRR as well >>as at least one other jct. farther west toward Spruce Creek tunnel. And Michael Bezilla responded: >Not sure if this was true in 1916. There's a crossover at DEER at the west >end of Huntingdon yard that was remote I think from Hunt in 1916 but the >next full interlocking/junction was at PETE still further west at >Petersburg. That's where the H&P branched off to Hollidaysburg. It was >controlled by PETE tower in 1916. And confirmed by Mark Bej. BTW, the H&P from where it passes under Hwy. 22 and extending some distance toward Hollidaysburg is a bike/hike path now. The grade from PETE and thru Petersburg is quite evident, and in Petersburg there is an interesting railroady-looking-structure-thing at grade. Lots of window panes and it is kept "up" ... anyone know it's history? Regards, Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA vagelk@usaor.net THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk _||_||_ || || || || || ||\ || || || || ||_||\\ /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ o x o x o x o . . . \/ \ \\ o _____ | | / \ >][_n_n_|HH] /====___ ________ ________ (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/| _/o OOOO o` oo oo 'oo oo' 'oo oo' ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:36:27 EST Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 881 In a message dated 98-01-14 18:32:45 EST, shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG writes: << One of these days I'll do that Baldwin centercab kitbash and get some photos for publication. I got the tools I still needed for Christmas; Maybe next month >> Derrick-- I'm waiting on the arrival of a June 1995 RMC back issue with an article on bashing a non-PRR Baldwin centercab out of a Stewart AS 616. While an RT624 is good for you, I'm wanting to do the LS 2500. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:58:17 -0600 Subject: Re: HO E-R Models sharks: part number Content-Length: 587 I knew about the E-R sharks but I was reading in a issue of RMC about a company in Oregon (I think) that was announcing a release of the BP20 Passenger Units. Randy ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:48:19 EST Subject: Re: Maint of Way decals Content-Length: 748 Kris, Champ Decals has recentlly redone it's PRR decals, apparently with the help of Bob Johnson who wrote the Keystone stories on Cabin Cars back in the 1970s. The M-O-W set is one of the redone sets that's on the market. Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings' Merchandise Service has a link to Champ's on-line catalogue. Tom V. ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 15 Jan 98 08:53:03 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 4717 --====48484951484849565053===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" There was also the quality of the ore coming from the Mesabi. The highest-quality ores that were easily attainable via open-pit mining were running out by the 50's. This left the Mesabi ore mines producing lower-quality taconite, an ore that was more difficult to smelt into pig iron with the blast furnaces then in use. Ores imported from South America or Canada were easier to convert into steel's raw material, pig iron. Difficult to believe that ore shipped all the way from Venezuela would be less expensive than an equivalent quality ore coming from Minnesota, but I suppose its possible. Bob Zoeller wrote: > >Sometime in late 50's (I will get exact issue tonight) Trains magazine ran >an extensive article on PRR ore traffic. At the time it was mostly Philly import >ore, but other traffic was described. Photos and descriptions were of transition >from doubleheaded M1s to diesel. >Even if Missabi range was limitless, economics rule, and mills buy lowest >delivered price. >Places like northern Sweden have extensive deposits. I did not work for >that division, but Allis-Chalmers cement and mining division had a large subsidiary >in Sweden (still exists as a separate company). > >Bob Zoeller > >------------------------------------------------------------- >Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". >Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====48484951484849565053===1 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:48:24 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: HO E-R Models sharks: part number Content-Length: 726 On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com wrote: > I knew about the E-R sharks but I was reading in a issue of RMC about > a company in Oregon (I think) that was announcing a release of the BP20 > Passenger Units. Note that I never said you were wrong:-) LBF Shops in Roseburg OR -D ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 9:18:02 -0600 Subject: Maint of Way decals -Reply Content-Length: 1335 >>> "kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL" 01/14/98 09:41pm wrote in part>>> >Does anyone know if PRR Maintenance of Way decals are >made, ie Pennsylvania in black letters? Champ Decals has a good selection of generic MOW decals in black or white. As far as PRR specific, roll your own, it is easy. I frequently make my own black decals. Use a word processing program and create the lettering you want. Print it (black on white) with a laser or inkjet printer on paper. Use a copy machine to copy the printed "artwork" onto decal sheets (available from Champ, Walthers, Clover House and others). I then lightly spray a coat of Dullcoat over the sheet to protect it from casual handling rubbing off the printed surface. Then cut out the decal and apply as usual. Works for me. Bill Laird Houston, Texas (where freedom still rings, no state income tax and carrying is legal) ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Judge David Carey Subject: Passenger Car Lighting Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:48:09 -0700 Content-Length: 658 Three to five years ago Model Railroader had a short feature on a passenger car lighting system that used AAA batteries and magnet-activated switches. Unfortunately I don't have access to an MR index. Does anyone know when the article appeared? ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 13:01:04 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 933 Are the Greenberg shows any good? I see there is one about an hour from me this weekend: Jan. 17-18, 1998: Greenberg Great Train, Doll & Toy Show - Lebanon Valley Expo Center, Lebanon, PA. Show hours: Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Sunday 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $5 Adults; $2 Ages 6 to 12; Children under 6 FREE. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Identify this car... Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 12:01:10 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 649 Hi, Here's a link a photo from the traincam at the Fullertown Santa Fe depot. It's labeled as being taken on 09/13/97 at 08:12AM. It's a PRR passenger car.... which one?! http://www.trainweb.com/video/970913_0730f.jpg Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Stripes on 1953-54 F Unit? Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 13:41:28 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1086 If I recall, it was around 1952 that the PRR went from Bronze Gold to Dulux Gold (Buff). Since I am modeling after that, the Dulux should be my choice. (Correct me if I am wrong.) I am preparing to refinish several F7's. What stripes should be applied? Choices are: 1) Five Stripe 2) Single Narrow Stripe 3) Single Broad Stripe If it makes a difference, the units are to be modeled for 1953-54 on the NCRY ("Y" added for Tom V.'s benefit!) between Baltimore and Harrisburg. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:23:52 EST Subject: East Broadtop Junction with PRR Content-Length: 685 IDoes the EBT junction with the PRR at Mt Union? Does it then run to Orbisonia? Are there other Jcts between PRR and EBT? I noticed that Wagoner Classic Models has a laser-cut model of Orbisonia Depot. See Feb 98 RMC page 16 for picture. Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:51:44 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller" Subject: Re: East Broadtop Junction with PRR Content-Length: 2640 At 06:23 PM 1/15/98 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >Does the EBT junction with the PRR at Mt Union? It _did_ until at least the 1970s. The connection was via the former street-level mainline thru Mt. Union (still a CONRAIL industrial spur). I believe the switch into the EBT's yard has been removed, but you can still see the scars in the std gauge ties from the third rail that lead from the EBT yard approx. 1/10 mile to the EBT's depot (former PRR depot before the high line construction ca. 1910). >Does it then run to Orbisonia? Yes, and continued south to Robertsdale, Woodvale, and Alvan (coal mine locations). Total length was 32-33 miles. Currently, 5 miles from Orbisonia north approx. half distance to Mount Union are in service during the warm months as a tourist line, w/ original EBT locos and passenger equipment in operation. Shops, roundhouse, and many pieces of rolling stock are there for the viewing. >Are there other Jcts between PRR and EBT? No. >I noticed that Wagoner Classic Models has a laser-cut model of Orbisonia >Depot. See Feb 98 RMC page 16 for picture. > That should be _Webster_ Classic Models. Yes, a very nicely done kit ... Les Walker, the owner of WCM coordinated closely w/ Friends of the EBT, among others, to produce an accurate model. The price is high, but the structure is quite large and involves several different door an window patterns, not to mention the details of the platform portico supports, et al. One will someday grace my freelance HOn3 EBT clone, you betcha ... Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA vagelk@usaor.net THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk _||_||_ || || || || || ||\ || || || || ||_||\\ /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ o x o x o x o . . . \/ \ \\ o _____ | | / \ >][_n_n_|HH] /====___ ________ ________ (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/| _/o OOOO o` oo oo 'oo oo' 'oo oo' ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:10:12 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Passenger Car Lighting Content-Length: 725 Judge David Carey wrote: > > Three to five years ago Model Railroader had a short feature on > a passenger car lighting system that used AAA batteries and > magnet-activated switches. Unfortunately I don't have access to an MR > index. Does anyone know when the article appeared? > An article titled "Flicker-free car lighting" in Model Railorader for September, 1995, page 70, is probably the one you are thinking of. The author removed the Ni-Cad cells for recharging. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:30:18 -0500 From: bobsin@nac.net Subject: Re: East Broadtop Junction with PRR Content-Length: 414 I imagine someone would have details about the "Timber Transfer" at Mount Union which I believe was first used for timber and then later used to transfer standard gauge cars onto narrow gauge trucks. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:44:10 EST Subject: Re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 402 I generally avoid them because they go heavy on model stuff, light on books and paper. I'm a "paperist", not a modeler. But I would say it would be worth the trip for you. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 7:37:45 EST From: Subject: fwd: re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 1936 ------------- Original Text From: K KOLLAR@DS@193SOW, on 1/16/98 7:26 AM: To: SMTP@193SOG@PAMDT[] I've been to this particular one before and there is HO train stuff but you'll have to sort through all the toys, doll houses, Winross trucks, Hess trucks and Lionel. I'd suggest to save the hour drive time for the end of January and go to Timonium. if you haven't been there already you'll find almost 97% scale train stuff (a very small amount of other toy stuff sneaks in) and always a good selection of PRR related items. I've found many of the dealers accept cash, check or credit card there too. So becareful cause its easy to spend big bucks. happy spending, Kris Kollar --------- From: Jerry_Britton , on 1/15/98 1:01 PM: Are the Greenberg shows any good? I see there is one about an hour from me this weekend: Jan. 17-18, 1998: Greenberg Great Train, Doll & Toy Show - Lebanon Valley Expo Center, Lebanon, PA. Show hours: Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Sunday 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $5 Adults; $2 Ages 6 to 12; Children under 6 FREE. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: ****** TEST ***** Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 08:59:52 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1038 This is a test of the PRR broadcasting system. Were this a real emergency... I installed a new rev of the listserv software last night. It now runs in the "background", without any user interface. Administration (including startup/shutdown) is via a second application. It promises faster processing in the 20% range. However, my initial reaction is that it is faster than that. We've had a bunch of new subscribers on "Conrail-talk" so turnaround time has been slow over the past day or so. This should help dramatically. Yes, I am aware of the fact that Mark Bej's one message seems to propogate faster than rabbits! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:46:59 -0500 From: "Kaiser, Bud" Subject: RE: Maint of Way decals -Reply Content-Length: 1685 > ---------- > >>> "kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL" 01/14/98 09:41pm wrote in part>>> > > >Does anyone know if PRR Maintenance of Way decals are > >made, ie Pennsylvania in black letters? > > Here are the numbers for the Champ decals: Wrecking crane HC-280 MOW cars: White lettering - HC 128; Black lettering - HC 120N These are all HO and they are not available in other scales Also, don't overlook the use of the PRR Jumbo covered hopper, HC-657 in HO, as a source for MOW decals. This was a gray car and had black lettering and a black Keystone. The 13" black lettering and the Keystone are just what you want for that camp car yellow N6b cabin at the end of your work train. I'm not sure if Westerfield is selling his PRR MOW decals separately yet, but you could try this approach also. I have a set of his cars that I'm just starting to build. He also has a great two hour video on building his cars that takes you from opening the box to final painting and decaling. Bud Kaiser > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". > Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: Stripes on 1953-54 F Unit? Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:12:37 -0500 Content-Length: 1328 Hi Jerry. The Single narrow Dulux Stripe scheme would be the right choice for your F7's. The Champ Decal set uses the wrong font for the number boards but you can steal the correct style numerals from a Microscale set. Hope this helps. Steve Sejda (Hoping to model the Phila. Terminal Division someday.) ---------- > From: Jerry_Britton > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: Stripes on 1953-54 F Unit? > Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 12:41 PM > > If I recall, it was around 1952 that the PRR went from Bronze Gold to > Dulux Gold (Buff). Since I am modeling after that, the Dulux should be my > choice. (Correct me if I am wrong.) > > I am preparing to refinish several F7's. What stripes should be applied? > > Choices are: > 1) Five Stripe > 2) Single Narrow Stripe > 3) Single Broad Stripe > > If it makes a difference, the units are to be modeled for 1953-54 on the > NCRY ("Y" added for Tom V.'s benefit!) between Baltimore and Harrisburg. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: Identify this car... Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:29:35 -0500 Content-Length: 768 Hi Rob. The car appears to be "Colonial Crafts". Steve Sejda (Hoping to model the Phila. Terminal Division someday) ---------- > From: Rob Schoenberg > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Identify this car... > Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 12:01 PM > > Hi, > > Here's a link a photo from the traincam at the Fullertown Santa Fe depot. > It's labeled as being taken on 09/13/97 at 08:12AM. > > It's a PRR passenger car.... which one?! > > http://www.trainweb.com/video/970913_0730f.jpg > > > Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:37:28 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: Maint of Way decals -Reply Content-Length: 2825 I just realized that the detailed response I sent out went to Kris only, but most of the points have been covered since. Here are a couple that remain: Bud wrote: >I'm not sure if Westerfield is selling his >PRR MOW decals separately yet, but you could try this approach also. I >have a set of his cars that I'm just starting to build. He is, and they are very good decals. The camp cars are fantastic! Also look at Sunshine (HO): Black lettering - MOW sets with their FM flatcar company service kits - available seperately I think. Includes "assigned idler for derrick #" and other assignments. This is a very nice set of decals. >He also has a >great two hour video on building his cars that takes you from opening >the box to final painting and decaling. This is a MUST have video! For $7.00 (as I recall) and a $5.00 credit towards a Westerfield kit, you can't go wrong. I learned soooo much, and it really gave me the confidence that I could build these kits. Kris wrote: >Also when steam wreck cranes were assigned an old tender, > was there some kind of permanent 'hook-up' for water to be transferred >into the steam derrick? Same question goes for the coal that was used to >fire up the crane? or did that require a strong back and big biceps to get >the job done? Careful examination of photos in Color Guide to PRR Passenger and Freight vols 1&2 show piping along the inside sill of the idler flat car. This indicates at least some connection for water. Photos of the tenders seem to show pumps on the decks of some. Coal was carried by hand. A month or two ago, we discussed whether the tenders always accompanied the derrick to the job site, and it appears that the answer was no. Thus any connections must have been readily disconnected. Happy Rails, Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 09:05:03 CST Subject: Huntingdon, my failing memory, etc. Content-Length: 2140 Hi, everyone, This is a note to correct myself. In my posting on Huntingdon, I stated (working from memory) that there were interesting bridges WEST of the depot. Here's the accurate story. EAST of the depot is Stoney Creek. South of Penn St., between First and Second Sts. can be found a 4-arch stone bridge which dates from the original construction of the PRR. It was abandoned when the PRR tracks were moved to the canal bed in 1892. It is currently maintained by Huintingdon borough. Adjacent to it is the current Conrail bridge, a three-span stone arch built in 1891. There are no remains of the canal aqueduct. This info comes from "Huntingdon County, PA: An Inventory of Historic Engineering and industrial sites," published by the Natioanl Park Service in 1991 in conjunction with site survey work for the proposed America's Industrial Heritage Corridor. I've lost the ordering information but someone from the Friends of the EBT might still have it. This is one of a series of books covering central PA from Huntingdon Co. west to Johnstown, and including Indiana Co. There is much accurate info on former PRR structures and the books are cheap so worth getting. RE the Huntingdon & Broad Top, a few years ago, a couple of books on the H& BT came out. They may still be available. Contact Jon Baughman & Ron Morgan (the authors), PO Box 188, Saxton, PA 16678. Finally, RE maps of the PRR in PA, I would recommend a b&w copy of the State RR Commision map from about 1915 put out by Railways to Yesterday (RTY), the folks that run the trolleys at Orbisonia. The map is about 3' x 4' but has great detail. It's available from RTY, PO Box 1601, Allentown, PA 18105-1601. Cost is $6.50, which includes postage. Enjoy! PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Feedback on HO project...... Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:45:02 -0600 Content-Length: 699 I wrote: "Between a and b should be inserted "DGLE 5 stripe, including nose)" which I thought (perhaps incorrectly) superseded "a" fairly quickly. That wins my vote for my era ." Researched last night. This scheme was officially recognized in painting diagrams from August 1950 to September 1951. Lettering and striping were in gold leaf (bronze gold) BTW. Photo on page 79, Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 2. Diagram reprinted in Pennsy Journal Vol. 1, No. 1. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:47:21 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 2059 Greetings to Jerry and the group, I have been going to the Greensburg show at the Monroeville Expo Mart (Pittsburgh) rather regularly. They are not all trains. About three quarters trains and a quarter collectable toys, doll houses and stuff like Hallmark orniments and other 'collectable' nik-naks. For me it's a easy 2 hour to drive Monroeville and I would say it's worth it and the admission. The neat thing about Monroeville is my wife does the Monroeville Mall while I'm in the Expo Mart. We agree not to ask what the other bought. It's a good time had by all. You will notice fluctuations in prices if you go to them a lot. Greensburg comes to Moneroeville three times a year; around November, around February and in July. The prices are at their highest at the November show. The crowds are their worst then also. You shouldn't be disapointed in going. The show I really liked was and I may not get it right, the Ellcott City Great Scale Train Show. This show still goes on at Timonium, MD. It used to come to the Expo Mart untill the Greenburg show started coming there. This was all trains of every scale. If it wasn't at the Elcott City show they probably didn't make it. Remember this observation is based on the Elcott City shows I went to at the Expo Mart. Haven't been to Timonium. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 01:01 PM 1/15/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote: >Are the Greenberg shows any good? I see there is one about an hour from >me this weekend: > >Jan. 17-18, 1998: Greenberg Great Train, Doll & Toy Show - Lebanon >Valley Expo Center, Lebanon, PA. Show hours: Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 >p.m.; Sunday 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $5 Adults; $2 Ages 6 to >12; Children under 6 FREE. > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:30:55 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 526 > Greetings to Jerry and the group, > > I have been going to the Greensburg show at the Monroeville Expo Mart ^That's Greenburg (no S), which is important, because if they ever take their show to the GreenSburg Expo Center (in the Greengate Mall) Greenburg in Greensburg will be confusing enough! -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Identify this car... From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 11:49:40 -0500 Content-Length: 944 COLONIAL CRAFTS a post war 3br 1dr lounge regards Andy Miller - ------- Hi, Here's a link a photo from the traincam at the Fullertown Santa Fe depot. It's labeled as being taken on 09/13/97 at 08:12AM. It's a PRR passenger car.... which one?! http://www.trainweb.com/video/970913_0730f.jpg Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------ Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Stripes on 1953-54 F Unit? From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 11:52:52 -0500 Content-Length: 1414 Jerry, F7s were never 5 stiped. Paint the narrow 1 "mustard" stripe. regards Andy Miller - ---------- If I recall, it was around 1952 that the PRR went from Bronze Gold to Dulux Gold (Buff). Since I am modeling after that, the Dulux should be my choice. (Correct me if I am wrong.) I am preparing to refinish several F7's. What stripes should be applied? Choices are: 1) Five Stripe 2) Single Narrow Stripe 3) Single Broad Stripe If it makes a difference, the units are to be modeled for 1953-54 on the NCRY ("Y" added for Tom V.'s benefit!) between Baltimore and Harrisburg. - --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Your company's ad here supports "PRR-Talk" and "Keystone Crossings". Please contact jerry@dsop.com for more information. Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Trainphones on Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 13:04:13 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1125 I've got Bowser N5 and N5C cabin cars that I want to install train phone equipment on. Will use the Cal Scale kits (brass). In photos the "pipe" antennae and the stanchions are black. Floquil "Engine Black" outta do. What about the "dish" components? Were they black as well? Assume so. Don't see them in photos, off hand. The N5 is an "Assigned to Passenger Service/Railway Express Agency" version and is built, with the addition of Run 8 Productions windows and Kadee couplers. The N5C is a "Northern Region" kit, unbuilt, with its cupola painted yellow by the Keystone Model Railroad Historical Society to represent its assignment to "Pool Service". It will also get a window kit and Kadee couplers. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: Maint of Way decals -Reply Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:07:32 -0600 Content-Length: 623 > ---------- > >>> "kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL" 01/14/98 09:41pm wrote in part>>> > > >Does anyone know if PRR Maintenance of Way decals are > >made, ie Pennsylvania in black letters? > > I don't recollect who did them (I'll check tonight if they were Champ or their own), but Sunshine Models offers black lettering MOW decals for their FM flatcar kit. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Bowser K4 Construction Question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 13:54:26 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1768 Question on the Bowser K4 I am building: Shipped inside the boiler is/was a large block of metal, neatly shaped to slip into the "nose" of the boiler as if intended to be there. I assumed it was a weight. During construction, however, there is no reference in the instructions for leaving it there. It also does not appear on the assembly schematics. It does not have a screw hold for attachement and, if left, would just "sit" there, unfastened. I have found that when I do this, it slides back against the motor's gearing during operation. This places to much load on the gearing and stalls it. Is it a weight? Or is it to protect the boiler from being crushed during shipping? Other than that, it's coming along well. Impressed with forward running strength but gearing meshes in reverse. Need to work on that. Painting question: I have seen many Pacific's with the front of the boiler ("smoke house" I think it is called) painted silver. The Pennsy should be DGLE like the rest of the boiler, shouldn't it? Also, the oft-circulated "what to paint what color on steam locos" message on the list leaves several areas unclear: the footholds on the sides of the boiler, the tops of the "walkways" alongside the boiler (one source says walkways are black), and the trailing truck. Are these items to be DGLE or Engine Black? --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Head End Cars on Passenger Trains Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 15:19:25 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1008 I get the impression that at least at some point the PRR did NOT put head-end (e.g. X-29 mail) cars at the head of its luxury passenger trains. This was probably limited to the early years of "Fleet of Modernism" service and possibly only to the "Broadway Limited". Can anyone expand on this? I'm looking to create credible consists for 1953-54 on the Northern Central Railway. List of trains and schedules that ran then is available at: http://prr.dsop.com/layout/operations.html FWIW: Also posted PRR system map with NCRy line highlighted, as well as the portion that I am modeling. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen R. Sejda" Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Construction Question Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:46:11 -0500 Content-Length: 890 > Painting question: I have seen many Pacific's with the front of the > boiler ("smoke house" I think it is called) painted silver. The Pennsy > should be DGLE like the rest of the boiler, shouldn't it? The smokebox was painted in varying shades of graphite paint. The shades varied by time period and geography where the engines were repainted. Some photos show the paint as almost bright silver and others show it very dark like the lead in a #2 pencil. Any of the color photos in "PRR Steam Years" Vols. 1 & 2 should help you nail the color. The rest of the boiler was Brunswick Green (DGLE). Steve Sejda (Hoping to model the Phila. Terminal Division someday.) ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:47:45 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: Trainphones on Cabin Cars Content-Length: 1992 Hi Jerry - I've done a few cabin cars myself. The receiver "dish" components are also black. The main question is whether the particular car you are portraying actually had antennae, as many did not. Most N5c cars did have them, but I believe most N5 cars did not. You'd need a list of cars by number (which I can't supply) that lists which ones had the antennae. Alternatively, if you have a photo of a particular car that had the antennae and was assigned to the region you model, you're in business. I hope this helps. Jim On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Jerry_Britton wrote: > I've got Bowser N5 and N5C cabin cars that I want to install train phone > equipment on. Will use the Cal Scale kits (brass). > > In photos the "pipe" antennae and the stanchions are black. Floquil > "Engine Black" outta do. What about the "dish" components? Were they > black as well? Assume so. Don't see them in photos, off hand. > > The N5 is an "Assigned to Passenger Service/Railway Express Agency" > version and is built, with the addition of Run 8 Productions windows and > Kadee couplers. > > The N5C is a "Northern Region" kit, unbuilt, with its cupola painted > yellow by the Keystone Model Railroad Historical Society to represent its > assignment to "Pool Service". It will also get a window kit and Kadee > couplers. > > --------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com > Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Construction Question From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:29:04 -0500 Content-Length: 2651 Jerry, I am not familiar with the current production of PL/Bowser K4's, mine a re older; but my experience has been that they are light up front. The center of gravity should be on the center driver and its usually aft of that. So, a nose weight would make sense. I have even gone so far as to make a lead weight to put on the frame behind the front driver. It helps toi shift the c-o-g and adds a lot to tractive effort. The smoke "box" was not painted, but rather covered with a mixture of oil and graphite. It was too hot a surface for paint to adhere. The resulting color was a slightly silver black. regards Andy Miller - --------- Question on the Bowser K4 I am building: Shipped inside the boiler is/was a large block of metal, neatly shaped to slip into the "nose" of the boiler as if intended to be there. I assumed it was a weight. During construction, however, there is no reference in the instructions for leaving it there. It also does not appear on the assembly schematics. It does not have a screw hold for attachement and, if left, would just "sit" there, unfastened. I have found that when I do this, it slides back against the motor's gearing during operation. This places to much load on the gearing and stalls it. Is it a weight? Or is it to protect the boiler from being crushed during shipping? Other than that, it's coming along well. Impressed with forward running strength but gearing meshes in reverse. Need to work on that. Painting question: I have seen many Pacific's with the front of the boiler ("smoke house" I think it is called) painted silver. The Pennsy should be DGLE like the rest of the boiler, shouldn't it? Also, the oft-circulated "what to paint what color on steam locos" message on the list leaves several areas unclear: the footholds on the sides of the boiler, the tops of the "walkways" alongside the boiler (one source says walkways are black), and the trailing truck. Are these items to be DGLE or Engine Black? - --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 16 Jan 98 17:26:11 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: Trainphones on Cabin Cars Content-Length: 4970 --====50485357485752575552===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" Jerry, I believe a yellow cupola signified east-west pool service, and a light gray cupola signified north-south pool service. There is a picture of a cabin in the N/S pool scheme in the NJ international "Cabin Car Equipment of the PRR and LIRR". I don't doubt the accuracy of the painting of your cabin car, but what was the distinction to E/W vs. N/S in an area such as the Northern Region, where trains go north from Enola, then west through Renovo, then north to Buffalo. Were the N/S pool cabins used mainly on lines west, or say, between New York and Pot yard? -- Doug Drew Jerry_Britton wrote: >I've got Bowser N5 and N5C cabin cars that I want to install train phone >equipment on. Will use the Cal Scale kits (brass). > >In photos the "pipe" antennae and the stanchions are black. Floquil >"Engine Black" outta do. What about the "dish" components? Were they >black as well? Assume so. Don't see them in photos, off hand. > >The N5 is an "Assigned to Passenger Service/Railway Express Agency" >version and is built, with the addition of Run 8 Productions windows and >Kadee couplers. > >The N5C is a "Northern Region" kit, unbuilt, with its cupola painted >yellow by the Keystone Model Railroad Historical Society to represent its >assignment to "Pool Service". It will also get a window kit and Kadee >couplers. > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====50485357485752575552===1 From: VVA249 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:59:28 EST Subject: Jerry Bowser K4 Construction Question Content-Length: 1311 The reason that the "smoke box" (foward coarse of "boiler") is a different a different color is that it was not part of the boiler and was NOT insulated and required a heat resistant paint (graphite) On a brass (or real) locomotive you'd be able to see rivets on this section (with head about 3/4" to 1" diameter) - but not on the rest The remainder of the locomotive was lagged with asbestos covered with a thin sheet metal jacketing - no rivets in this area - what may or may not have been visible were the heads of 1/4-20 x 3/4" Truss Head Machine Screws used to hold the jacketing sections together Heads of these srews less than 1/2" in diameter ( some "O" scale Manufacturers have accurately modeled the difference) Regarding Paint - don't forget the discussions of cab roof colors - and of course the inside was the ugliest color of lime green you could imagine Final note - jacketing did not go all the way around the boiler but was open on the bottom and the "sides were held together by all thread rods - with turnbuckles in the middle Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:11:57 -0500 From: Zeolla Subject: Attaching track to raoadbed Content-Length: 905 OK, I've finally gotten to the point where I'm almost ready to start laying track. I'm going with Atlas code 100 flex track due to its "cost effectiveness" vs. other brands (i.e. Shinohara at twice the price). I've also found a product called Homo-bed which is very similar in shape and size to two piece cork roadbed, but is made from homosote. Here's my problem: The roadbed, whether cork or homobed, has its seam right down the center, exactly where the Atlas track has its nail holes. Given this, most nails aren't really holding much. I've though about glueing, but I still would need some sort of nail to hold the track in place while the glue sets! Any suggestions??? ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:40:46 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: ?s Ore trains on the PRR Content-Length: 828 I posted this a while back, but since ore docks at Erie are being discussed so much, I'll repost it. The Library of Congress American Memory Collection has pictures of these docks from around 1901. Follow this link & type "Erie Pennsylvania railroad". http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/mdbquery.html The panoramic view of 1912 Erie is also a good picture, showing the original Union Station and a roundhouse which burned 5 yrs later, I believe. These tracks were later NYC mainline, but at the time were Lake Shore & Michigan Southern (or something like that). -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Attaching track to raoadbed Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:17:27 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1155 On 16 Jan, Zeolla wrote: > Here's my problem: The roadbed, whether cork or homobed, has its seam > right down the center, exactly where the Atlas track has its nail > holes. Given this, most nails aren't really holding much. > > I've though about glueing, but I still would need some sort of nail to > hold the track in place while the glue sets! I use Latex Liquid Nails for gluing down N Scale cork roadbed and track. On our NTrak modules, we use Pliobond (a contact cement). Both work great, and both need weights and maybe pins to keep things aligned while the glue dries. In the long run, the ballast cement is what winds up holding everything together anyway. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:55:20 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller" Subject: Re: Trainphones on Cabin Cars Content-Length: 2390 At 01:04 PM 1/16/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote: >I've got Bowser N5 and N5C cabin cars that I want to install train phone >equipment on. Will use the Cal Scale kits (brass). > >In photos the "pipe" antennae and the stanchions are black. Floquil >"Engine Black" outta do. What about the "dish" components? Were they >black as well? Assume so. Don't see them in photos, off hand. Jerry, and others ... in _Caboose Data Book No. 2: Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania And Long Island Railroads_, N.J. International, Inc, 77 West Nicholai St, Hicksville, NY 11801, 1988 there is a color photo of N5b 477714 that shows the disks were the same color as the roof ... black in this case. The cabin car is in the late keystone scheme (no words, plain keystone, san-serif numbers) w/ yellow pool service cupola. From the black and whites of N5C's in the same volume it looks as though the disks were the same color (at least there is no discernable difference in shades) as the roof. B'lieve me ... the CalScale antenna set and the run eight window sets MAKE the Bowser cabin kit REALY respectable. If you get a wild hair, shave off the side and end grabs and cupola top grabs ... you'll have to fabricate new side and cupola grabs (I modified Detail Associates boxcar end walk grabs for the latter w/ little effort) but you can use Roundhouse carbody end grabs. I had several folks accuse me of entering a brass model in our monthly bring and brag on non-rev equipment!!! Good Luck. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA vagelk@usaor.net THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk _||_||_ || || || || || ||\ || || || || ||_||\\ /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ o x o x o x o . . . \/ \ \\ o _____ | | / \ >][_n_n_|HH] /====___ ________ ________ (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/| _/o OOOO o` oo oo 'oo oo' 'oo oo' ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:19:44 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 882 On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, LINESWEST wrote: > In a message dated 98-01-14 18:32:45 EST, shadow@DEMENTIA.ORG writes: > > << One of these days I'll do that Baldwin centercab kitbash and get some > photos > for publication. I got the tools I still needed for Christmas; Maybe next > month >> > > Derrick-- > > I'm waiting on the arrival of a June 1995 RMC back issue with an article > on bashing a non-PRR Baldwin centercab out of a Stewart AS 616. While an RT624 > is good for you, I'm wanting to do the LS 2500. He cheated badly, his unit is long enough that it looks somewhat ridiculous. Let me know what you think when you get the article. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:20:31 EST Subject: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 333 What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? Thanks Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:29:32 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Michael Bezilla) Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 427 >What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? Only the one that went thru the fill of the hump yard at east altoona, between ANTIS and HOMER, now daylighted by Conrail. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:29:58 EST Subject: PRR Camelback Content-Length: 364 According to International Hobby Corp. the PRR had 1 camelback, does anyone have any information on this locomotive? Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:03:56 EST Subject: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 649 The State of Pennsylvania 1:500,000 topo map shows the following Major Railroads, are there others? 1940 and earlier only. The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Deleware & Hudson Erie Lehigh Valley New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) Reading Western Maryland Thanks Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:06:36 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 3605 On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Michael Bezilla wrote: > >What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? > > Only the one that went thru the fill of the hump yard at east altoona, > between ANTIS and HOMER, now daylighted by Conrail. For that matter what tunnels were there systemwide? The ones I know of (aside from the 2 at Gallitzin and the 1 at Tunnelhill): Radebaugh (just west of Greensburg): one on the original mainline which is extant, north of the current mainline cut, and one which was daylighted to make the cut on the current mainline Greensburg: under Main Street ever-so-slightly east of the Greensburg station. I don't know when the tunnel was removed and replaced with just a bridge on Main Street over the mainline, but I suspect it was early. Carney Hill (between Greensburg and Latrobe): the original mainline alignment went through a tunnel under the top of the hill. You can see where the tracks veered south across Donahoe Road and under a new housing development, and the tunnel is still there. Hahntown (south of Irwin): the branch from Irwin to Herminie which then met the line from Greensburg to the B&O tracks north of West Newton had a tunnel under a hill from one creek valley into the next; If you go south along Tinkers Creek valley from Irwin eventually you come to an old Westinghouse plant converted to an industrial park. At the southwesternmost part of that complex is a reshaped earthen wall hiding the north portal of the tunnel. I have not yet checked to see if the south portal is filled, or covered, but the right of way goes north into the hillside along the east side of Clay Pike, the main road to Herminie from just west of Irwin. Between Ardara and Trafford: the original mainline alignment went through the series of cuts now occupied by PA 993, which is why 993 lines up so nicely with the current alignment at Ardara (why it occasionally loks like an SD80MAC is going to hit you if you're not paying close attention!). One of the 2 cuts closest to Ardara was a tunnel which was daylighted. I am not yet sure which, and whether PRR or PA Dept of Highways or their predecessor daylighted it. Port Perry: on the line which cuts off the main line headed west officially at Wilmerding but the tracks don't swing away until Turtle Creek, continues down the east bank of Turtle Creek after the mainline has crossed to the west and swung west along the hillside above Braddock, and crosses the river to meet the line down the Mon toward West Brownsville is a tunnel just north of the Mon River through a small outcropping of the hillside. Just south of Conemaugh Dam: on the former alignment of the Conemaugh Division before the construction of Conemaugh Dam was a tunnel which was plugged because the eastern portal was inside the Dam impoundment area. An earlier alignment of the line also tunneled through the same hill, and that tunnel stands about 100 feet north of the most recent tunnel (and closer to the dam) Panhandle Division, under "Grants Hill" from south of Union Station in Downtown Pittsburgh: the tunnel which led from the Pittsburgh Station toward the bridge over the Mon which connected to the Panhandle division tracks, reclaimed, like the bridge, for the Pittsburgh subway. That's my contribution. Perhaps this also belongs on a web page. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:31:49 EST Subject: Re: Identify this car... Content-Length: 538 In a message dated 98-01-16 12:32:35 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: >COLONIAL CRAFTS a post war 3br 1dr lounge It lasted in revenue service (as a bar-lounge on NY-Washington trains) probably all the way up to Amtrak. I saw it many times in the late 60's. Glad to see it's still around. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:38:44 EST Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 541 In a message dated 98-01-17 10:45:03 EST, mxb13@psu.edu writes: >Only the one that went thru the fill of the hump yard at east altoona, >between ANTIS and HOMER, now daylighted by Conrail. If I remember correctly, only eastward trains used this tunnel. Were there any tunnels on Middle Division branches? Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:38:45 EST Subject: Re: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 635 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:23:47 EST, Hal6963@aol.com writes: > the following Major >Railroads, are there others? 1940 and earlier only. I guess it depends on how you define "major", but I would include Pittsburgh & West Virginia, Pittsburgh & Lake Erie, Monongahela, Central of New Jersey, and Lehigh and New England on this list. All moved a great deal of tonnage in the pre-1940 years. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:46:49 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Painting the K4 was Re: Bowser K4 Construction Question Content-Length: 1592 Greetings to Jerry and the group, According to the Pennsylvania Research and Information Association's 1972 publication _The Painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders_, as of 1929, the smokebox and exposed portions of the firebox, ash pan and stack are all painted with Front End Paint. DGLE is to be used on the boiler jacket and running board facing strips. Black is used on hand rails, running boards and brackets (except facing), pipes and fictures and steps. [Can't help you with facing vs non-facing. DRM] Trailing truck frames could be either black or DGLE. DGLE mixture of green and black that was so dark it usually looked black. Front End Paint Heat resistant black graphic paint with aluminum powder added. Looked "silvery black". Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 01:54 PM 1/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >Painting question: I have seen many Pacific's with the front of the >boiler ("smoke house" I think it is called) painted silver. The Pennsy >should be DGLE like the rest of the boiler, shouldn't it? > >Also, the oft-circulated "what to paint what color on steam locos" >message on the list leaves several areas unclear: the footholds on the >sides of the boiler, the tops of the "walkways" alongside the boiler (one >source says walkways are black), and the trailing truck. Are these items >to be DGLE or Engine Black? > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:47:26 -0500 From: "Drew R. McGhee" Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 1252 Greetings to Harold and the group, There was a two track 'tunnel' of sorts where the main tracks went under the Altoona West hump just west of ANTIS interlocking at MP 232.99. The Conrail Central Region Allegheny Division Track Chart of 1985 called it Antis Tunnel. Clearance for #1 track was 18 feet high by 11 feet wide. Clearance for #2 track was 17 feet 6 inches high by 11 feet wide. This 'tunnel' was daylighted as part of the clearance project in the early 90s. It was just a bit east of the 17th Street Juniata Bridge. (Don't confuse that bridge with the 17th Street Altoona bridge at ALTO tower.) Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 10:20 AM 1/17/98 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? > >Thanks > >Harold R. McGee >Gainesville, FL > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:11:29 -1000 From: "Eric J. Minton" Subject: Re: Identify this car... Content-Length: 1140 Aloha, I think this is a car that is stored on a siding south of Fullerton. I have tried to locate it on both my visits to the area since seeing it when I went to a convention in San Diego. The son of a friend who owns and restores cars knew about the car but was unable to tell me where it was. He had met the owner at some train event. Another gentleman I met on the Coast Star lighter last November was aware of it and thought it would be part of a summer excursion of private cars. Eric > From: Rob Schoenberg > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Identify this car... > Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 12:01 PM > > Hi, > > Here's a link a photo from the traincam at the Fullertown Santa Fe depot. > It's labeled as being taken on 09/13/97 at 08:12AM. > > It's a PRR passenger car.... which one?! > > http://www.trainweb.com/video/970913_0730f.jpg > > > Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:32:54 EST Subject: Re: PRR Camelback Content-Length: 569 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:04:07 EST, Hal6963@aol.com writes: << According to International Hobby Corp. the PRR had 1 camelback, does anyone have any information on this locomotive? >> PRR had three E1 camelbacks, built in 1899 by Juniata. They were sold to the Long Island in 1903. There's a picture on page 128 of Pennsy Power. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:34:52 EST Subject: Re: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 835 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:23:44 EST, Hal6963@aol.com writes: << The State of Pennsylvania 1:500,000 topo map shows the following Major Railroads, are there others? 1940 and earlier only. The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Deleware & Hudson Erie Lehigh Valley New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) Reading Western Maryland >> Not exactly major, but the Strasburg is the second oldest common carrier RR in the US. What about Pittsburgh and Lake Erie? John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: BP 20 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:54:56 -0500 Content-Length: 1123 The feedback has been excellent so far on our upcoming BP 20 project, thank you ! I have a question on lighting: What is the proper lighting for the A & B units, and how should they operate (what's on when running) ? I'm looking for specifics, as we are trying to determine just what to include and how. No decisions have been made yet, but it looks like we'll go with a DCC socket - no pre installed decoder, still looking at Athearn or Atlas drive, Decals most likely for all schemes, will include trainphone antennae, could use some references to the rear of the A unit and both ends of the B unit. We want to do this right ! On another note, we plan to use the Alco Products motor / Bowser frame in our upcoming Streamlined K4 project. Also, would you guys like a conversion kit to do a semi-streamlined K4, based on the Bowser kit ? Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:55:14 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: Tunnels.. Content-Length: 1936 Hi folks.... Here are some more system wide tunnels.... Maryland Div. tunnel under capitol hill in DC near union station-virginia ave.1907-8? the B&P tunnel just south of Penn station in Baltimore.1873 the union tunnels just north of Penn station in Baltimore. old tunnel-1873,new tunnel-1934 Maryland or Harrisburg Div.? Howard tunnel on Northern Central 1838 tunnel across from Peach Bottom on the port road New York Div. the Hudson and East river tubes to Penn station and Sunnnyside yards. 1910? Below is a listing of tunnels shown in the book "On The Main Line" by E.P.Alexander... Middle Div. Spruce Creek,Old Portage tunnel Pittsburg Div. Gallitzin,Carr's tunnel(Donohoe,Greenburg,Radebaugh,Adara old tunnel(P.C.C.&St.L)starting at 7th Ave. and Fountain St. Schuylkill Div. tunnel near Phoenixville This is by no means a complete list and some tunnels listed and shown in the book may be older tunnels that were later daylighted or replaced. Also there are probably other tunnels i might not be aware of. Note:...was'nt there a tunnel near present day 30th st. station at one time?..years ago when i got to go to work with my dad when he worked Philly locals ,leaving 30th st. upper level and going like you would be going to...Media or Wilmington..just after leaving the station on the right looked to be a abandoned tunnel or entrance to one. Anyone know what this area near the station was or what this had been ?...I have no idea what this might have been...A abandoned route from old Broad to the North? H.Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:57:27 +0000 Subject: Re: fwd: re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 1228 Kris Kollar recently wrote in part: > > I've been to this particular one before and there is HO train stuff but > you'll have to sort through all the toys, doll houses, Winross trucks, Hess > trucks and Lionel. I'd suggest to save the hour drive time for the end of > January and go to Timonium. if you haven't been there already you'll find > almost 97% scale train stuff (a very small amount of other toy stuff > sneaks in) and always a good selection of PRR related items. > > happy spending, > > Kris Kollar > --------- > I second what Kris wrote above. I recently attended a Greenberg show in the Atlanta, GA (last weekend) and was basically disappointed since "scale model railroading" was not the theme of this event -- more a theme of doll houses and toy trains (which is fine for those whose interest are in these areas). The Timonium shows are always excellent -- especially for scale model railroaders. Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:57:27 +0000 Subject: Re: Painting the K4 was Re: Bowser K4 Construction Question Content-Length: 1035 > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:46:49 -0500 > To: "PRR-Talk" > From: "Drew R. McGhee" > Subject: Painting the K4 was Re: Bowser K4 Construction Question Drew wrote in part: > Greetings to Jerry and the group, > > According to the Pennsylvania Research and Information Association's 1972 > publication _The Painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders_, as of 1929, the > smokebox and exposed portions of the firebox, ash pan and stack are all > painted with Front End Paint. > > DGLE is to be used on the boiler jacket and running board facing strips. > Question: what does DGLE stand for? Pardon my lack of knowledge. By the way, very nice email -- very educational. Thanks. Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:00:34 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: New Narrow Gauge list? Content-Length: 1330 I am just floating the idea right now. I have had ten positive responses to a segment of a note I sent to one of the lists. I am proposing a list dedicated to Narrow Gauge, any road, any country, any gauge. Dedicated more to the historical than the modeling, but not eliminating modeling. I most especially _do not_ want to syphon any "business" away from the existing lists. The existing lists are naturally limited to their stated purpose, and that purpose is very important. I just have a feeling that there might be interest in narrow gauge in addition to existing lists. The SP narrow gauge and the EBT are mentioned in the main lists, but there doesn't seem to be a forum for historical discussions, questions and stories concerning narrow gauge topics. (Please if there is one, tell me!!) I'm sorry if this is considered off topic. I would appreciate it if people would forward their thoughts directly to me (rswebber@concentric.net) so that I can figure out what kind of "market" there might be. If anyone wants to host such a list, by all means please contact me as well. Thanks, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:29:01 -0000 Content-Length: 1938 The Maryland & Pennsylvania might also be an addition if you're including Strasburg. I'm not sure if the Ma & Pa was ever a Class One railroad, but she sure was an interesting one, taking 77 picturesque miles to got between Baltimore & York (which is about 45 miles today by highway). Jim wjhudson@erols.com -----Original Message----- From: Hal6963 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 2:32 AM Subject: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania >CLASS 1 RAILROADS OF PENNSYLVANIA > >The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) >Baltimore and Ohio >Bessemer and Lake Erie >Central Railroad of New Jersey (PA lines still legally Central of Pennsylvania >at the time?) >Delaware, Lackawanna & Western >Deleware & Hudson >Erie >Lehigh & New England >Lehigh & Hudson River >Lehigh Valley >Monongahela, >New York Central >New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) >New York, Ontario and Western >New York, Susquehanna and Western/Wilkes-Barre and Eastern (was independent of >Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly thereafter) >Pittsburgh & West Virginia >Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) >Reading >(Strasburg the second oldest common carrier RR in the US.) >Western Maryland > > >Thanks to all who helped expand this list. Still looking for any missing from >the list. 1940 and earlier, Class 1 railroads. > >Harold R. McGee >Gainesville, FL > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:53:48 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Nscale decals for hoppers Content-Length: 531 Hello All! I just ordered four N-scale 2-bay composite side Micro-Trains Hoppers from Walthers and I'm trying to locate decals. I tried Microscale but my catalog doesn't show anything. Does anyone know if the new catalog has anything? How about other decal makers? Any help would be appreciated, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:29:07 EST Subject: Re: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 1379 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:23:44 EST, you write: << Subj: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Date: 98-01-17 11:23:44 EST From: Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com The State of Pennsylvania 1:500,000 topo map shows the following Major Railroads, are there others? 1940 and earlier only. The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Deleware & Hudson Erie Lehigh Valley New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) Reading Western Maryland >> Adding following (all Class I in the 1930's): Central of New Jersey (PA lines still legally Central of Pennsylvania at the time?) Lehigh and New England Lehigh and Hudson River New York, Susquehanna and Western/Wilkes-Barre and Eastern (was independent of Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly thereafter) New York, Ontario and Western Pittsburgh and West Virginia Pittsburgh and Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:29:08 EST Subject: Re: PRR Camelback Content-Length: 895 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:04:07 EST, you write: << Subj: PRR Camelback Date: 98-01-17 11:04:07 EST From: Hal6963@aol.com (Hal6963) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com According to International Hobby Corp. the PRR had 1 camelback, does anyone have any information on this locomotive? >> More than one, but can't recall actual number of class E1 Atlantics built for use on Atlantic City runs from Camden; later leased or sold to Long Island RR; guess on year would be 1898 or so. Most like Baldwin Vauclain compounds when built. (Away from the my library again). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:46:46 EST Subject: Re: Stripes on 1953-54 F Unit? Content-Length: 631 In a message dated 98-01-15 20:07:36 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: << Choices are: 1) Five Stripe 2) Single Narrow Stripe 3) Single Broad Stripe >> F7 locomotives only were painted in the freight loco scheme No five stripe No single broad stripe these were passenger loco variations (original shark freight scheme is an exception to the rule). The synthetic buff enamel was in use by Jan. 1954 Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:47:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 523 [Tom Vondruska sent me a personal reply about the low clearances on the Panhandle being behind the N6b cupolas, which led me to....] Oooh, oooh, you reminded me of Benwood and Wheeling tunnels near Wheeling, in a back-to-back configuration as on the PA Turnpike at Kittatinny and Blue Mountain. -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:17:24 EST Subject: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 1168 CLASS 1 RAILROADS OF PENNSYLVANIA The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Central Railroad of New Jersey (PA lines still legally Central of Pennsylvania at the time?) Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Deleware & Hudson Erie Lehigh & New England Lehigh & Hudson River Lehigh Valley Monongahela, New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) New York, Ontario and Western New York, Susquehanna and Western/Wilkes-Barre and Eastern (was independent of Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly thereafter) Pittsburgh & West Virginia Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) Reading (Strasburg the second oldest common carrier RR in the US.) Western Maryland Thanks to all who helped expand this list. Still looking for any missing from the list. 1940 and earlier, Class 1 railroads. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:19:29 EST Subject: Re: Feedback on HO project...... Content-Length: 1271 In a message dated 98-01-16 11:48:04 EST, bob@amsignal.com writes: << wrote: "Between a and b should be inserted "DGLE 5 stripe, including nose)" which I thought (perhaps incorrectly) superseded "a" fairly quickly. That wins my vote for my era ." Researched last night. This scheme was officially recognized in painting diagrams from August 1950 to September 1951. Lettering and striping were in gold leaf (bronze gold) BTW. Photo on page 79, Pennsy Diesel Years Vol. 2. Diagram reprinted in Pennsy Journal Vol. 1, No. 1. >> I not sure what the original post was. However, all should be aware that the five stripe DGLE with or without the nose stripes was used on passenger locomotives and B15, B15a and B16 (sharks) freight locomotives only. No other freight locomotive was painted in this scheme. And before someone yells centipedes. The BP60 were painted with the five stripe scheme when in passenger service as were the AP20 (PA-1 and PB-1). When down rated to freight service all were not repainted. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:20:43 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: camelback Content-Length: 780 Some other photos are in Steel Rails to the Sunrise (pg 116 - in PRR paint - nice 3 axles tender!. There were other camelbacks on the LI as well. The photo (looks like a builder's), shows the 820, a 4-4-2, with a Belpaire-Wooten firebox. They were built for the run to Atlantic City (photo shows at least a 7 car train). PRR kept them 4 years (from 1899). Not great choo choos - not even the LI liked them, they were scrapped in 1911. Incidently, I just put this book on auction at: http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4492727 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:19:21 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: PRR Camelback Content-Length: 286 There were three E1 Atlantics: road numbers 698, 700 and 820. Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:25:08 EST Subject: Re: Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 805 In a message dated 98-01-17 11:23:47 EST, Hal6963@aol.com writes: << The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Deleware & Hudson Erie Lehigh Valley New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) Reading Western Maryland >> Other Class I roads Pittsburgh & West Virginia Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Monongahela Youngstown & Southern Pittsburg & Shawmut Pittsburg, Shawmut & Northern New York, Ontario & Western Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:56:32 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 409 > Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) Sorry to disagree, but NYC owned 93 percent of P&LE. That's not "quasi." Dan Cupper, former P&LE employee cupper@ibm.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:24:15 -0500 From: "Michael L. Wingard" <102361.2253@compuserve.com> Subject: AF16 Antenna Locations Content-Length: 532 I have an undecorated set of AF16's (A-B-A) that I am detailing for the Pennsy. I have purchased the radio antenna set. In all of the photographs that I have, I do not know how the antenna is routed on the rear of the A Units. Can anyone guide me on this? Thanks! Michael Wingard 102361.2253@compuserve.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:50:51 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: fwd: re: Greenberg Shows--Any Good? Content-Length: 1662 >I second what Kris wrote above. I recently attended a Greenberg >show in the Atlanta, GA (last weekend) and was basically disappointed >since "scale model railroading" was not the theme of this event -- more a >theme of doll houses and toy trains (which is fine for those whose >interest are in these areas). The Timonium shows are always >excellent -- especially for scale model railroaders. I also agree. I have been to the Timonian show and it is much better. I went to the Greenburg show in San Mateo this year and it was the worst of the "name" shows I have ever been to - and the most expensive (parking $5). One of the biggest problems (IMHO) is the lumping in of all different things - from dollhouse to diecast to brass to tinplate to .... I would most likely go to one within an hours drive, but, if it didn't impress me, I wouldn't go back. The GATs are almost as bad, there is so much non-scale stuff for sale, it's very trying to find what you're looking for. I wish they would segregate things - tinplate in one room (or side) and scale on the other. I believe the Greenburg shows were bought by Kalmbach last year or so. I hope they make them better than the ones I've attended. Then again, at least it is advertised with dollhouse in the title, so one shouldn't be too surprised, and it might be an attraction for the SRs involved. Above all personal opinion, your mileage may vary. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:37:41 EST Subject: Cleaning of PRR prototype locos Content-Length: 1192 Greetings guys, I was wondering if anyone would happen to know what sort of cleaning schedule was used by the PRR in regard to their steam and diesel engines. It would appear, from photographic evidence, that the cleanliness of the exteriors was not an item of great concern especially with regard to their freight equipment. Some photos show a clean, and well kept front number plate on some steamers which are otherwise grimy and grungy. The lack of any visible, for the most part, traces of the graphite and oil mixture on the smokeboxes led me to ask. . As a part 2: Do we have another acronym to go along with DGLE, in "FEP"? See below: Drew R. McGhee wrote in part: > According to the Pennsylvania Research and Information Association's 1972 > publication _The Painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders_, as of 1929, the > smokebox and exposed portions of the firebox, ash pan and stack are all > painted with Front End Paint. Regards, George ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: EMD645 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:07:49 EST Subject: LetterRip unsubscribe PRR-Talk Joseph Yarbrough Content-Length: 258 LetterRip unsubscribe PRR-Talk Joseph Yarbrough ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:38:46 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: Railroads Content-Length: 968 Hmmm... don't know if these were class ones.... Maryland & Pennsylvania(Ma&Pa)(Baltimore,Md. to York,Pa.) Western Allegheny (was a one time PRR subsidiary) EBT (narrow gauge) Bellefonte Central(PRR friendly) Stewartstown RR (a PRR-Northern Central feeder line at New Freedom,Pa.) Kishacoquillas Valley (mentioned in the "Pennsy Power" book as buying used D class PRR engines during the 1920's) Washington & Waynesburg ?(narrow gauge)PRR related (saved odd F class came from this line) Philadelphia & Western (interurban third rail electric line from Philly later a SEPTA line.) Thats all i can find for now Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:50:18 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: 5475 and number plates Content-Length: 813 Hello all.... I was looking around the other day for a old brochure from a company that made gauge 1(1:32)trains. This company made a version of a Pennsy K-4...nice model...anyway...since we were chatting recently about it i noticed it was numbered No. 5475...the brochure went on to say that it is indeed a Juniata built engine...The brochure further stated that this engine...No. 5475 was the first PRR locomotive to have a Keystone number plate. This was in 1927. Hmmmmm thought you all might like to know.. Hank Mummert ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:26:06 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Tunnels.. Content-Length: 359 > Here are some more system wide tunnels.... Let's not forget the 2 tunnels on the Low Grade line between Driftwood and DuBois, Pa. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:27:23 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: In Defence of Greenberg Shows Content-Length: 1732 Dear List Members, There has been some talk of disappointment with the Greenberg shows. If your disappointment comes from an expectation that was not fulfilled, then I understand your disappointment. If your expectation was different from the description that Greenberg Shows uses to describe their own events I invite you to look at the description again. Greenberg shows do NOT tout themselves as 100 percent scale train shows! They state right up front that you ARE going to see Doll Houses, Lionel, Flyer, Ives, MTH, Marx, LGB and a mixture of everything under the sun when it comes to trains. If you do not want to see these things, or you are wanting to go to a Scale Only meet, then choose another show! Since I know an employee of Greenberg Shows, which has it's roots in the toy train publication business, I do not think that you are going to see Greenberg Shows "fixed" by Kalmbach. They are not broken! They are doing exactly what they have been doing for years. Since I live in Maryland I have attended many Scale Shows at Timonioum MD and many Greenberg shows. I know what will be at each and set my expectations as such. When I want a replacement part for my Lionel collection, I "run right to Greenbergs", it's a one stop shop. If I want to purchase NWSL gear sets, Brass, any one of millions of HO items, I go to the "Scale Show". While I am there I do not bemoan the small amount of toy trains available. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:30:05 -0500 From: mxb13@psu.edu (Mike Bezilla) Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 422 >Were >there any tunnels on Middle Division branches? While the L&T branch, aka Bellefonte branch, was not entirely Middle Division, there were 2 tunnels: one at Coburn and the other at Poe Paddy. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: Re: 2nd Update - Class 1 Railroads of Pennsylvania (long) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:59:37 -0000 Content-Length: 2074 I can tell you which were still Class One in 1956. I think the Ma & Pa might have been Class One earlier in its existence.-- the standard kept getting raised through the years. It depends on which year you're looking at. >The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) yes >Baltimore and Ohio yes >Bessemer and Lake Erie yes >Central Railroad of New Jersey (PA lines still legally Central of Pennsylvania >at the time?) yes >Delaware & Hudson yes >Delaware, Lackawanna & Western yes >Erie yes >Lehigh & Hudson River yes >Lehigh & New England yes >Lehigh Valley yes >?????? Maryland & Pennsylvania Not a Class 1 RR, (not listed in GNASL) no >?????? Monongahela (not listed in GNASL) yes >New York Central yes >New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) yes >New York, Ontario and Western yes >?????? New York, Susquehanna and Western/Wilkes-Barre and Eastern (was >independent of Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly >thereafter) (not listed in GNASL) yes >?????? Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines (not listed in GNASL) yes >Pittsburgh & West Virginia yes >Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) 93% ownership >by NYC yes, still listed sep. from NYC >?????? Pittsburg & Shawmut (not listed in GNASL) no, but it WAS in 1955 >?????? Pittsburg, Shawmut & Northern (not listed in GNASL) no >Reading yes >The Stewartstown was (in it's early days) a connection to Not a Class 1 RR >?????? no > Stewartstown, New Park & Fawn Grove no >?????? (Strasburg the second oldest common carrier RR in the US.)? Not a Class >1 RR no >?????? Youngstown & Southern (not listed in GNASL) no >Western Maryland yes ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:17:53 EST Subject: 2nd Update - Class 1 Railroads of Pennsylvania (long) Content-Length: 2542 Class 1 Railroads in Pennsylvania, are there others? 1940 and earlier only. Please review for Class 1 RR status. Some of the listed RRs should probably be in a Short Line category. I have checked the list against the Guide to North American Steam Locomotives (GNASL) and assume that if not listed they probably should not be classified as Class 1 Railroads unless someone has information to the contrary. Would it be safe in assuming that all railroads making the list have had the same name from 1900 to 1940? The Pennsylvania Rail Road (Standard Railroad of the World) Baltimore and Ohio Bessemer and Lake Erie Central Railroad of New Jersey (PA lines still legally Central of Pennsylvania at the time?) Delaware & Hudson Delaware, Lackawanna & Western Erie Lehigh & Hudson River Lehigh & New England Lehigh Valley ?????? Maryland & Pennsylvania Not a Class 1 RR, (not listed in GNASL) ?????? Monongahela (not listed in GNASL) New York Central New York, Chicago & St Louis (Nickel Plate) New York, Ontario and Western ?????? New York, Susquehanna and Western/Wilkes-Barre and Eastern (was independent of Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly thereafter) (not listed in GNASL) ?????? Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines (not listed in GNASL) Pittsburgh & West Virginia Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) 93% ownership by NYC ?????? Pittsburg & Shawmut (not listed in GNASL) ?????? Pittsburg, Shawmut & Northern (not listed in GNASL) Reading The Stewartstown was (in it's early days) a connection to Not a Class 1 RR ?????? Stewartstown, New Park & Fawn Grove ?????? (Strasburg the second oldest common carrier RR in the US.)? Not a Class 1 RR ?????? Youngstown & Southern (not listed in GNASL) Western Maryland The next phase of this project will be to locate and label all railroads in the final list on the 1:500,000 scale topographic map of Pennsylvania. Of particular interest will be the Junctions and Interchanges with the PRR. For those involved in modeling the Pennsy the list may be useful in filling out their freight car inventory assuming that a large percentage of foreign cars would be from this list. Thanks to all who are helping to expand and contract this list. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:28:57 EST Subject: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 860 In a message dated 98-01-17 23:09:40 EST, Dan wrote back in response to my posting to PRR-Talk: << Subj: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Date: 98-01-17 23:09:40 EST From: cupper@ibm.net (Dan Cupper) To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Pittsburgh & Lake Erie (quasi-independent from New York Central) Sorry to disagree, but NYC owned 93 percent of P&LE. That's not "quasi." Dan Cupper, former P&LE employee cupper@ibm.net >> Let me rephrase that, Dan: how 'bout "operationally quasi-independent"? I miss the PSU Altoona conferences. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:43:23 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Attaching track to raoadbed Content-Length: 1593 >I've though about glueing, but I still would need some sort of nail to >hold the track in place while the glue sets! > >Any suggestions??? 1) longer nails, to hold into the sub-roadbed. However, be extremely careful nailing flex track, as any depression in the tie narrows the guage of the rails! 2) the solution I use? I use push pins - the ones with the plastic tops - to strategically hold down track while I glue it into place. This work pretty well for me, although the pins can get in the way if you are test running locos before gl;uing down the track! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:48:33 EST Subject: "Bald Eagle" Heavyweight PRR Pass Cars Content-Length: 356 I have 2 extra of this car name, what would be appropriate names to change them to? Thanks foer the help. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:51:14 EST Subject: Re: Tunnels.. Content-Length: 1843 In a message dated 98-01-17 15:44:30 EST, bubbles@visi.net writes: > like you would be going to...Media or Wilmington..just after leaving > the station on the right looked to be a abandoned tunnel or entrance to >one. Anyone know what this area near the station Sounds like you're referring to the Gray's Ferry Branch. It came south from Zoo, ran through Powelton Yard (where SEPTA MU's are stored during off-peak hours), and joined the southward portion of the Suburban Line inside the tunnel which takes southbound suburban trains under Market and Chestnut Streets. Passengers seated on the west side of the train can clearly see where the lines split, and the north end of the Grays Ferry Branch tunnel. In the days before 30th Street and Suburban Station, the vast majority of trains ran into Broad Street (and backed out if they were continuing south.) But some of the hottest NY-Washington or Florida jobs would skip Broad Street in order to avoid the time-consuming reverse move. They would stop only at "West Philadelphia", which was located at 32nd and Market Sts. These trains used the Grays Ferry Branch, although it wasn't called a "branch" in those days. As soon as the lower level at 30th Street was opened, the Grays Ferry Branch lost all real reason for its existence. It would be used by an occasional deadhead equipment move between Media or Wilmington and Powelton Yard. The branch remained (technically) in service well up into Amtrak's operation of the Corridor, but was torn up sometime after SEPTA took over operating control of the suburban MU's. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:32:03 EST Subject: Re: Cleaning of PRR prototype locos Content-Length: 1481 Feb 23, 1938 Locomotive Maintenance Instructions No L-54 Daily Cleaning: Driving & running gear, trucks, tender, frames, all parts below running boards and tender cistern shall be washed with a pressure spray nozzle with a mixture of hot water & cleaning oil (min. temp. 125 F max temp 175 F) Cleaning oil should not exceed 4 lbs per average engine nozzle pressure not less than 120 psi Tender cistern bulkheads, cab sides, fronts & backs and windows scrubbed with brushes and oil soap Locomotive jacket must be dry wiped. Bell must be polished boiler backhead and cab interior dry-wiped smoke box fron & barrel and exposed parts of fire box wrapper and throat sheet sprayed when necessary with smoke box paint to which has been added 12 1/2 lbs of aluminium powder per 50 gals of paint monthly cleaning: engine and tender inspection all necessary repairs and repainting to be done scale paint as necessary and repaint as needed dry wipe boiler & cylinder jackets polish bell and whistle repaint cab roof with one coat repaint sash as neede repaint smoke box firebox and throat sheets repaint smoke stack handrails headlight generator, piping throughly clean and wipe boiler backhead and cab interior repaint number plate Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:53:44 EST Subject: Re: Railroads Content-Length: 755 Since this seems to have expanded to all railroads in PA Montour Cambria & Indiana Coudersport & Port Allegheny Lake Erie, Franklin & Clairon Union McKeesport Connecting Mononghela Connecting Winfield Ligonier Valley Carbon County Chestnut Ridge Connemaugh & Black Lick Cornwall Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain Ironton Johnstown & Stony Creek Lackawanna & wyoming VAlley Pittsburgh, Allegheny & McKees Rocks PIttsburgh & Ohio Valley Pittsburgh, CHartiers & Youghiogheny Unity Upper Merion & Plymouth Valley Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:58:40 EST Subject: new member Content-Length: 455 I model the PRR Renovo Division from OD yard in Erie to just past Corry ,Pa and a small segment of the E & P Branch from DJ tower to Linesville.Pa circa 1946. All in HO. Looking forward to being part of this! Don Murphy paintloco @aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:22:46 EST Subject: Re: Secondary and Shortlines of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 596 It seems someone has already done this list. There is a list on the net titled "PRR Freight Connections" which appears to have a system wide list of all the connections with the Pennsy. I don't have the URL here at home, so unless someone else has it and posts it first I will post it tomorrow. I think the title of the page is Rob's PRR pages. Harold R. McGee Gainesville. FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:04:44 EST Subject: PRR interchanges within PA 1952 (long) Content-Length: 3269 Official interchange points on the PRR within PA in 1952 B&O Bessemer, Butler, Curwensville, Everson, Falls Creek, Foxburg, Hyndman, Indiana, Johnsonburg, Johnstown, Josephine, Kane, Millvale, New Castle, Philadelphia (25th & Wolf), Philadelphia (Delaware & Commercial STs.), Philadelphia (Ggray's Ferry), Pittsburgh (Allegheny), Pittsburgh (Herr's Island), Uniontown, Vintondale, Washington via Tylerdale Connecting Belefonte Central -- Belefonte B&LE Butler, Erie, Houston Jct, Linesville, Mercer, Shenango CAmbria & Indiana Nantyglo, Rexis Central RR of PA -- Buttonwood, Nanticoke Cheswick & Harmar -- Cheswick Connemaugh & Black Lick -- Johnstown, Morrellville Cornwall -- Cornwall, Lebanon Cumberland & PA -- State Line D&H -- Buttonwood, Hudson, South Wilkes Barre D&LW -- Martin's Creek, Northumberland, West Nanticoke Donora Southern -- Donora East Broad Top -- Mt Union East Erie -- Erie Erie Brockway, Corry, Johnsonburg, New Castle, Oil City, Sharon, Sharpsville, Transfer Etna & Montrose -- Etna Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain -- Huntingdon, Mt. Dallas Johnstown & Stony Creek -- Johnstown Lake Erie, Franklin & Clarion -- Summerville Lehigh Valley - Gum Run, Hazelton, Laurel Jct., Mt. Carmel, Newton, Schuykill Haven, Shenandoah, Tomhicken, Wilkes-Barre Ligonier Valley -- Latrobe Ma & Pa -- York McKeesport Connecting -- McKeesport Monongahela -- Brownsvillw Jct. Monogahela Connecting -- Pittsburgh (South Side) Montour -- Hills, McDonald New Haven & Dunbar -- Dunbar NYC -- Clearfield, Erie, Farrell, Irvona, Jamestown, Keating Jct., Loch Lommond Jct., Mahaffey, McElhattan, Mill Hall (Eagle Jct), Newberry (Newberry Jct), North Girard, Oil City, Rose, Sharon, Sharpsville, Titusville, Warren Nickel Plate -- Erie, Thornton Jct. P&LE -- Beaver Falls (College), Brownsville Jct., Connellsville (Connellsville Transfer), Elwood Jct., Homestead (Homestead Transfer), Kobuta, New Castle, Sharon, Walford Pittsburgh & Ohio Valley -- Scully Pittsburg & Shawmut -- Brookville, Freeport Pittsburgh & West Virginia -- Bridgeville, Clairton Pittsburgh, Chartiers & Youghiogheny -- Carnegie, Scully (Duffs Jct.) Reading -- Birdsboro, Carlisle (Gettysburg Jct.), Chadd's Ford Jct., Chester, Coatesville, Columbia, Conshocken, Dillerville, Downingtown, Harrisburg, Lancaster, Landisville, Lebanon, Milton, Montgomery, North Philadelphia, Paper Mill, Philadelphia (Belmont, Delaware & Noble Sts, Richmond Jct, Sears Station), Pottsville, Rading, Sagon Jct. , Shamokin, Shippensburg, Sunbury, Williamsport Steelton Highspire -- Highspire, Steelton Stewartstown -- New Freedom Strasburg -- Leamon Place Tylerdale Connecting -- Washington Union -- Bessemer, Clairton, Hays, Kenney Yard, south Duquesne, Thomson Unity -- Renton Upper Merion & Plymouth -- Ivy Rock, Swedeland Valley -- West Line Western Maryland -- Connellsville, Hanover, Waynesboro, West York Winfield -- Winfield Jct. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:14:20 EST Subject: Re: new member Content-Length: 248 Welcome to the group, Don Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Johnston" Subject: AS24m, or DL600b, or RSD15 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:44:01 -0500 Content-Length: 693 All, I recently purchased a brass model of an Alco DL600b (RSD15) PRR designation AS24m. I have completed all of the repairs, repowering and removal of non-PRR appropriate details. I now have a model of a generic AS24m and wish to detail it. I have only located a handful of pictures of it in Pennsy Diesel Years 2 and A Pennsy Diesel Power Review. Does anyone know of other published pictures? How many did PRR have? How many had TrainPhone installed? TIA rwj ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:20:24 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: Nscale decals for hoppers Content-Length: 1710 Roger Elliott wrote: > > Hello All! > I just ordered four N-scale 2-bay composite side Micro-Trains Hoppers > from Walthers and I'm trying to locate decals. I tried Microscale but my > catalog doesn't show anything. Does anyone know if the new catalog has > anything? How about other decal makers? > > Any help would be appreciated, > Roger Elliott > Roger, Northeast Decals, P.O. Box 324, Deerfield, MA 01324; has sets PRR-03, Hoppers and Gons, white markings, circle keystone. PRR-04, Hoppers and Gons, black markings, circle keystone; PRR-07, Box Cars & Hoppers, White PRR and plain keystone; and PRR-08; black markings, PRR logo and plain keystone. Price is $1.50 a set. I've got some on order, haven't used them yet, but other members of my club vouch for them. And, although they are not decals per se, C-D-S makes dry transfer sets at $2 each. I don't have the current catalog but I saw one recently. C-D0-S was making PRR sets for, it seemed, just about all the pre-WWII hopper series. I haven't done a hopper yet, but did 3 X-29s. You have to take your time more. Once you start burnishing the lettering on, you can't make adjustments; you can't float the thing around to get it square. But, you don't have to worry about the transfers bubbling up. So, you don't need a gloss coat prior to applying the transfers. You do need to put on a dull coat afterward to keep the transfers from rubbing off. Dave Freshwater NVNTRAK North Potomac, MD ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:59:36 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: Identify this car... Content-Length: 626 You can find out more information about Colonial Crafts by surfing to: http://www.execpc.com/~aaprco/page10.html That's the page below the home page of the American Association of Private Railroad Car Owners (AAPRCO) where there is a photo of the interior of Colonial Crafts, a brief history, and tells who and how to contact the current owner, if you want to rent it. Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Diesel Paint & Stripes Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 08:11:39 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1797 Please take a moment and, if you can respond, respond in detail and with accuracy. Responses will be compiled and posted to "KC" in the "Modeling" and "Motive Ops" sections. Perhaps more importantly, the info received will be used by Liberty Model Productions in creation of their forthcoming BP20 Passenger Sharks. Diesel Painting: All diesels were painted DGLE until 1952, when Tuscan was first introduced for diesels assigned to passenger service. Is this an accurate statement? Until late 1953, striping and lettering was Bronze Gold. It then switched to Dulux Gold (Buff) circa late 1953-early 1954. Is this an accurate statement? Diesel Striping: Striping for various classes seemed to have changed at different times. For the classes indicated below, I'd like to know the timeframes of changes (including "as delivered") for the many striping schemes a unit would have worn (e.g. five stripe, single narrow stripe, single wide stripe, etc.): AF15 (FA-1) AF16 (FA-2) AP20 (PA-1) BF-15 (DR4-4-15 Freight Shark) BF-20 (DR6-4-20 Freight Shark) BP20 (DR6-4-20 Passenger Shark) (I know for some it was five stripe but not on the nose) BP60 (DR12-8-15/2 Centipede) EF15 (F3) EF15a (F7) EP20 (E7) EP22 (E8) FF20 (ERIE freight) FP20 (ERIE passenger) Thanks for your input. Hope to post summary Wednesday evening (1/21). --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:20:35 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: AS24m, or DL600b, or RSD15 Content-Length: 1697 At 11:44 PM 1/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >All, > >I recently purchased a brass model of an Alco DL600b (RSD15) PRR >designation AS24m. I have completed all of the repairs, repowering and >removal of non-PRR appropriate details. I now have a model of a generic >AS24m and wish to detail it. I have only located a handful of pictures of >it in Pennsy Diesel Years 2 and A Pennsy Diesel Power Review. Does anyone >know of other published pictures? How many did PRR have? How many had >TrainPhone installed? > Greetings, PRR had 6 RSD-15's, numbered 8611-8616. All had trainphones and dynamic brakes.There is an excellent article in Mainline Modeler Feb 88. The paperbound book by John D. Hahn "PRR Diesel Loco Pictorial Vol 1 ALco RS series" has pics of 8611, 8612, 8613, and 8616. These were operated short hood forward. Check the particular unit you are modeling. There is a variety of electrical junction boxes on the short hood. These units were painted DGLE(Brunswick Green), handrails were yellow from steps to first stanchion. The large handholds on both short and long hoods were yellow allothers were DGLE. Running gear was black, but became very dirty or dusty in service. The trainphones were removed beginning in 1966 in preparation for the PC merger. All units were renumbered from 8611-8616 to 6811-6816. They had a horn on the short hood, looks like a Leslie. Hope this helps...... Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: BP 20 -Reply Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 09:48:51 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 879 On 1/19/98 10:14 AM, bill.laird@coastalcorp.com (bill.laird@coastalcorp.com) wrote: >What other projects besides the BP 20 and streamlined K4 are in the >works at Liberty Models and what are the timeframes for availability? February 1 will see the unveiling of Liberty Model Productions new web site, complete with working specifications and schedules. Stay tuned for an announcement. Joe Zappa (Liberty) may or may not want to add to that statement at this point. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:00:37 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: PSU Altoona Conference wasRe: Update - Major Railroads of Content-Length: 1005 Greetings to Bruce and the group, Information here is that the office of D&CE is planning to offer the conference once again this year. Don't have any details as yet but was told that it's a go. If the group dosen't mind some blatent advertising, I'll provide details as soon as I know them. I'll put PSU Altoona Conference as the subject of any informational posts. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 11:28 AM 1/18/98 EST, BBReynolds wrote in part: >> Sorry to disagree, but NYC owned 93 percent of P&LE. That's not "quasi." >> Dan Cupper, former P&LE employee >>cupper@ibm.net >> > >Let me rephrase that, Dan: how 'bout "operationally quasi-independent"? >I miss the PSU Altoona conferences. > >Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 8:14:16 -0600 Subject: BP 20 -Reply Content-Length: 709 What other projects besides the BP 20 and streamlined K4 are in the works at Liberty Models and what are the timeframes for availability? Waiting patiently............ Bill Laird Houston, Texas >>> "liberty@infonline.net" 01/17/98 03:18pm wrote in part>>> >The feedback has been excellent so far on our upcoming >BP 20 project, thank you ! >On another note, we plan to use the Alco Products >motor / Bowser frame in our upcoming Streamlined K4 >project. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Attaching track to raoadbed (fwd) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 9:34:07 EST Content-Length: 1269 > OK, I've finally gotten to the point where I'm almost ready to start > laying track. I'm going with Atlas code 100 flex track due to its "cost > effectiveness" vs. other brands (i.e. Shinohara at twice the price). > I've also found a product called Homo-bed which is very similar in shape > and size to two piece cork roadbed, but is made from homosote. I saw this. Is Homabed a single piece, or two? > Here's my problem: The roadbed, whether cork or homobed, has its seam > right down the center, exactly where the Atlas track has its nail > holes. Given this, most nails aren't really holding much. You mean track is not holding cork/Homabed? Or track's not held down well? Most people using Homasote glue it down. > I've though about glueing, but I still would need some sort of nail to > hold the track in place while the glue sets! > > Any suggestions??? My suggestion: nails down the center look terrible. Drill holes near rail and nail there, if you have to use Atlas track. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Middle Division Tunnels (fwd) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 9:39:43 EST Content-Length: 556 > What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? > > Thanks > > Harold R. McGee Harold, on the Middle Division _per se_, none. The tunnels at the top of the grade, Gallitzin/Tunnelhill, are Pittsburgh Division, technically. So were the tunnels just at the west end of Greensburg (now gone). -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 11:00:27 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 1085 Having only gotten back into model railroading during the past year, I no doubt missed some of the releases of PRR Proto 2000 units. For instance, I only recently learned that they had done E8's (Class BP22). I thought the only option was to buy UNDEC units and paint them. Anyway, Train World still has one of the two road #'s in PRR in stock. Check their ad in the latest MR. I think it's around page 130. I buy from them regularly. The price on the P2K PRR E8 is only $39.99! They are sold out of all three #'s of GP-9's as well as all 4 #'s of Tuscan E7's. They still have SD-7's and SD-9's. Did P2K do any others in PRR? PA-1's and DGLE E7's are coming soon. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Secondary and Shortlines of Pennsylvania Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 10:28:10 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 870 My list is from a 1944 ORER. It lists all of the railroads that the PRR interchanged freight with and the official interchange points. (But isn't a list of all the railroads in Pennsylvania) It's at http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/PRRConnections.shtml Rob It seems someone has already done this list. There is a list on the net titled "PRR Freight Connections" which appears to have a system wide list of all the connections with the Pennsy. I don't have the URL here at home, so unless someone else has it and posts it first I will post it tomorrow. I think the title of the page is Rob's PRR pages. Harold R. McGee Gainesville. FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:49:06 -0500 From: Zeolla Subject: Re: Attaching track to raoadbed (fwd) Content-Length: 1912 Mark D Bej wrote: > I saw this. Is Homabed a single piece, or two? Homabed is two piece, shaped just like the cork roadbed I've seen all over. It comes either slit for curves or solid for straights. It's only 1/4" thick, so this presents a problem in yard areas where one would want to use the regularly available 1/2" thick sheets. You must allow for the extra 1/4". The only hobby shop that I've found it in is in Lansdale, Pa (Henning and Associates - 215-412-7711). It's made by a guy in Kingston NY (B.O Mfg). > > Here's my problem: The roadbed, whether cork or homobed, has its seam > > right down the center, exactly where the Atlas track has its nail > > holes. Given this, most nails aren't really holding much. > > You mean track is not holding cork/Homabed? Or track's not held down > well? Most people using Homasote glue it down. It was suggested that the homabed get a coat of latex paint before laying track in order to seal out moisture. Since I sent the original message, I've painted the entire length, and the paint has allowed the nails to hold alot better. > My suggestion: > nails down the center look terrible. Drill holes near rail and nail > there, if you have to use Atlas track. Based on feedback from the group, and how things have changed (paint) since the original message, I've decided to glue the track down, using the center nail holes to temporarily secure it, then remove the nails after the glue sets. I've also realized that if I coat the entire roadbed with glue, I can add the ballast as I'm glueing the track (I've done a test strip, and it looks great!). Thanks for all the feedback! Bob Zeolla. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Nscale decals for hoppers Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:10:13 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 1463 On 19 Jan, "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" wrote: > Northeast Decals, P.O. Box 324, Deerfield, MA 01324; has sets PRR-03, > Hoppers and Gons, white markings, circle keystone. PRR-04, Hoppers and > Gons, black markings, circle keystone; PRR-07, Box Cars & Hoppers, White > PRR and plain keystone; and PRR-08; black markings, PRR logo and plain > keystone. I picked up the boxcar set, and there aren't any class markings! No X29, X29b, nothing, just lettering that could o on any PRR boxcar. Do the hopper sets have class markings? Or does somebody know who makes lettering sets small enough for (N Scale, remember) PRR class markings? CDS doesn't; their smallest is about right for carside numbers. > And, although they are not decals per se, C-D-S makes dry transfer sets > at $2 each. I don't have the current catalog but I saw one recently. > C-D0-S was making PRR sets for, it seemed, just about all the pre-WWII > hopper series. Do the CDS sets have class markings? Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 11:23:50 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1127 They did FA2's, FB2's and SW9's also. Rob ---------------------- http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR >Having only gotten back into model railroading during the past year, I no >doubt missed some of the releases of PRR Proto 2000 units. > >For instance, I only recently learned that they had done E8's (Class >BP22). I thought the only option was to buy UNDEC units and paint them. > >Anyway, Train World still has one of the two road #'s in PRR in stock. >Check their ad in the latest MR. I think it's around page 130. I buy from >them regularly. The price on the P2K PRR E8 is only $39.99! > >They are sold out of all three #'s of GP-9's as well as all 4 #'s of >Tuscan E7's. They still have SD-7's and SD-9's. > >Did P2K do any others in PRR? > >PA-1's and DGLE E7's are coming soon. > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:25:20 -0500 Content-Length: 1184 > Having only gotten back into model railroading during the past year, I > no > doubt missed some of the releases of PRR Proto 2000 units. > > For instance, I only recently learned that they had done E8's (Class > BP22). I thought the only option was to buy UNDEC units and paint > them. > > Anyway, Train World still has one of the two road #'s in PRR in stock. > > Check their ad in the latest MR. I think it's around page 130. I buy > from > them regularly. The price on the P2K PRR E8 is only $39.99! > This is the single broad stripe isn't it? P2K did two runs of 2 numbers (4 total) of the 5 stripe. Then they released 2 numbers of the single stripe. That's likely what TW still has. AHC still had these as well when I was there a few months ago. > They are sold out of all three #'s of GP-9's as well as all 4 #'s of > Tuscan E7's. They still have SD-7's and SD-9's. > > Did P2K do any others in PRR? > SW9 I believe. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:40:11 -0600 Subject: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR -Reply Content-Length: 858 >>> "jerry@dsop.com" 01/19/98 10:04am wrote in part>>> >For instance, I only recently learned that they had >done E8's (Class BP22). I thought the only option was >to buy UNDEC units and paint them. They did two versions of the E8's, both tuscan, one set (roadnumbers 5887 and 5898) with 5 stripes, and another 2 number set (5713 and 5797) with the single broad stripe. >Did P2K do any others in PRR? FA2 and F2B in DGLE FA2 and F2B in Tuscan (a "fantasy" paint scheme done in conjunction with Con-Cor) >PA-1's and DGLE E7's are coming soon. So are E7 A's and B's in DGLE later this year. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:17:05 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/19/98 Content-Length: 926 >> Subject: 2nd Update - Class 1 Railroads of Pennsylvania (long) From: Hal6963 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:17:53 EST << >> Erie in 1940, abandoned WB&E beyond Gravel Pit shortly thereafter) (not listed in GNASL) << I believe you mean Gravel PLACE (DL&W helper terminal west of Stroudsburg). >> Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines << Don't think they actually owned any trackage in PA. Connecting line Frankford Jct (Phila) to Delaware River, currently used by NJ Transit Atlantic City trains, may have been owned by PRR; it was electrified into Pavonia (Camden, NJ) Yard. PRSL was Owned jointly by PRR and Reading. - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 11:23 19-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR -Reply Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:36:44 -0500 Content-Length: 749 > >For instance, I only recently learned that they had > >done E8's (Class BP22). I thought the only option was > >to buy UNDEC units and paint them. > > They did two versions of the E8's, both tuscan, one set (roadnumbers > 5887 and 5898) with 5 stripes, and another 2 number set (5713 and > 5797) with the single broad stripe. > There were TWO sets with 5 stripes for a total of 4 different numbers. Then they finally did the single broad stripe in two numbers. So there were 6 different roadnumbers of P2K PRR E8s. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:08:01 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: Re: Nscale decals for hoppers Content-Length: 1401 Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > On 19 Jan, "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" wrote: > > > Northeast Decals, P.O. Box 324, Deerfield, MA 01324; has sets PRR-03, > > Hoppers and Gons, white markings, circle keystone. PRR-04, Hoppers and > > Gons, black markings, circle keystone; PRR-07, Box Cars & Hoppers, White > > PRR and plain keystone; and PRR-08; black markings, PRR logo and plain > > keystone. > > I picked up the boxcar set, and there aren't any class > markings! No X29, X29b, nothing, just lettering that could > o on any PRR boxcar. > > Do the hopper sets have class markings? Or does somebody > know who makes lettering sets small enough for (N Scale, > remember) PRR class markings? CDS doesn't; their smallest > is about right for carside numbers. > > > And, although they are not decals per se, C-D-S makes dry transfer sets > > at $2 each. I don't have the current catalog but I saw one recently. > > C-D0-S was making PRR sets for, it seemed, just about all the pre-WWII > > hopper series. > > Do the CDS sets have class markings? > The C-D-S sets that I used, which were for X-29s, had both class markings and end numbers. Dave Freshwater ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 13:36:56 CST Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels Content-Length: 792 On Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:20:31 EST, Hal6963 wrote: >What other tunnels are there in the Middle Division other than Spruce Creek? To my knowledge, this is the only one. There are two bores next to one another - an original and a later one built when the 4-tracking occured, although even at its height, I believe this area was never more than 3 tracks because that all the topography would hold. The next tunnels west are at Gallitzin. PRR Forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: NH&D Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:49:15 -0500 Content-Length: 382 Hi Rich: Since I am the "DUNBAR KID", I was pleased to see you mentioned the NH&D in your list of railroads interchanging with the PRR in Pennsylvania. Carl P. Izzo ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 13:52:16 CST Subject: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 814 Hi, Harold and the gang, One excellent source, indeed THE source on Keystone State railroads, is a book by Thomas T. Taber III called (I think) ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE RAILROADS OF PENNSYLVANIA. I don't know if Taber still has any for sale but he list EVERY railroad, including many smaller lines and industrial pikes and give very complete accounts of trackage, with loco rosters where known. If you want more info, let me know and I'll post Taber's address. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 14:14:34 CST Subject: RR connecting with the PRR Content-Length: 1016 Hi, gang, Although no longer the case by 1940, a number of narrow gauge lines connected to the PRR: Tionesta Valley Rwy at Sheffield, PA (on the former P&E) Tuscarora Valley RR at Port Royal on the Middle Div Newport & Shermans Valley at Newport on the Middle Div Bells Gap at Bellwood on the Middle Div (later became part of the PRR) Altoona Juniata & Northern at Altoona Lancaster Oxford & Southern at Oxford, PA Of course the Ligonier Valley and the Ma & Pa started out as ng There were many other ng connections that were unincorporated industrial lines, esp. logging lines. Best source for info? See my earlier post on Taber's book. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:51:17 -0400 From: Jerry Content-Length: 593 On 1/19/98 5:01 PM, s.a. mccall (hosam@gc.net) wrote: > It is my understanding Liberty is going to offer only unpainted diesel >units. 8-) Need I say more! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: RE: None Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:57:54 -0600 Content-Length: 2269 Jerry Britton wrote: "I get the impression that at least at some point the PRR did NOT put head-end (e.g. X-29 mail) cars at the head of its luxury passenger trains. This was probably limited to the early years of "Fleet of Modernism" service and possibly only to the "Broadway Limited". Can anyone expand on this?" The consist books for passenger trains generally list headend cars by type and source and destination. Some even list the commodity ("Life" magazine", e.g.) Some are marked with a symbol such as "(X)" which is code for "as needed". If not so marked, the car probably ran consistently in that train. For example, until 1943, the General had no headend cars except, briefly, a PB70. A B60 express car was added then. By 1950 there was an added through B60 to Council Bluffs and another B60 as needed ( I am going from memory now,but that is the essence of it). Trains such as the Manhatten Limited had generic references to "perishables (X)" or "milk(X)". In that case number of cars and type was flexible. These were in addition to regularly scheduled headend cars. Some of these cars were routed like Pullmans, i.e. "Chicago to Grand Rapids" (Dropped by a mainline train at Fort Wayne to another designated train). I never saw a picture of the Broadway with anything other than the RPO car on the headend, except the 1938 version which had what I assume was an extra B70 for spillover mail to be sorted enroute. I also am not counting the dormitory car which looked a little like a combine which ran after the war until the twin unit diners arrived. In summary, there were two kinds of headend traffic: regularly scheduled cars which shuttled back and forth on the same trains(or alternating with another train) and "ad hoc" ( literally "for this" , have to show off four years of Latin). If you could get a copy of consists for the Northern Division, you would get a real flavor for the exact traffic. BTW, sometimes the milk cars (R50 or otherwise) made their way home in freights. Regards, Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:01:02 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes Content-Length: 3031 At 08:11 AM 1/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >Please take a moment and, if you can respond, respond in detail and with >accuracy. Responses will be compiled and posted to "KC" in the "Modeling" >and "Motive Ops" sections. Perhaps more importantly, the info received >will be used by Liberty Model Productions in creation of their >forthcoming BP20 Passenger Sharks. It is my understanding Liberty is going to offer only unpainted diesel units. >Diesel Painting: > >All diesels were painted DGLE until 1952, when Tuscan was first >introduced for diesels assigned to passenger service. Is this an accurate >statement? Yes as far as it goes. > >Until late 1953, striping and lettering was Bronze Gold. It then switched >to Dulux Gold (Buff) circa late 1953-early 1954. Is this an accurate >statement? > This change was made in 1952. >Diesel Striping: > >Striping for various classes seemed to have changed at different times. >For the classes indicated below, I'd like to know the timeframes of >changes (including "as delivered") for the many striping schemes a unit >would have worn (e.g. five stripe, single narrow stripe, single wide >stripe, etc.): > Letss eliminate many units right off the bat. The only units which had stripes were the "Cab" units, no hood units had stripes. Basically, passenger units delivered before mid 1952 were delivered in DGLE, 5 stripe, Keystone on nose with unit number in keystone. Starting mid 1952 paint scheme was changed to Tuscan, 5 stripe and Keystone on nose with intertwined PRR in the Keystone. In 1956 Tuscan with 16" letters and large single stripe. In the 60's the stripe was eliminated on repaints, Tuscan only. Freight units followed the same basic pattern except had a narrow single stripe and were always DGLE. There are many exceptions to the above. Someone said there were as many as 18 documented schemes on the passenger units alone. The "Standard" railroad couldn't seem to standardize on their paint schemes. AF=Alco Freight BF=Baldwin freight EF=EMD Freight FF=FM Freight AP=Alco Passenger BP=Baldwin Passenger EP=EMD Passenger FP=FM Passenger This leaves us with the task of trying to obtain a picture which is dated to ascertain exactly the scheme to be modeled. One final comment about PRR painting, until 1997 all models were painted Brunswick Green until someone pointed out the fact that PRR called out Dark Green Locomotive Enamel on their paint diagrams. There is still a lot of bottles of Brunswick Green paint out there. Guess these will have to do until some manufacturer comes out with DGLE!!!!! Just couldn't resist!! Comments anyone?????? Try to be more constructive than I was...... Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:42:12 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 1277 Damn! I didn't even realize it was still around! Yes it had 6 wheel trucks and no frame. The TP1 was PRR #500001 There is a photo of it in the Morning Sun book, PRR Color Guide Vol 1 on page 126 taken in 9/66. Another photo is in Pennsy Power 3 on page 427. It was a huge car! I'm pretty sure you won't find a model of it since it was larger than any other tank cars that I know of. PRR 500000 was very similar but I think it was unpressurized and had a different class. It looks vaguely like a supersize Atlas LPG car! Rob >The Rail Whale is coming to Strasburg and the Railroad Museum of Pa. >This is an 86' experimental tank car, class TP-1 that was built by the >Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1960s. It is curently undergoing repairs at >the Conrail shops. Sight unseen, but apparently it sat on six wheel >trucks and did not have a frame. Can anyone else add to this story? Any >ideas for modeling in HO? The bigest tank kit I could find was about 10' >short and may not have the correct profile. > >Thanks, >Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:25:04 EST Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale Content-Length: 1077 In a message dated 98-01-19 15:25:34 EST, detting@pobox.upenn.edu writes: << The Rail Whale is coming to Strasburg and the Railroad Museum of Pa. This is an 86' experimental tank car, class TP-1 that was built by the Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1960s. It is curently undergoing repairs at the Conrail shops. Sight unseen, but apparently it sat on six wheel trucks and did not have a frame. Can anyone else add to this story? Any ideas for modeling in HO? The bigest tank kit I could find was about 10' short and may not have the correct profile. >> There's a picture in the book _The Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad_, Wayner Publications, page 56. General arrangement drawing in _Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger and Freight Cars, edited by Robert J. Wayner, page 89. Diagram shows a coupled length of 80' 2.5". John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Leary" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:39:49 +0000 Subject: PRR, C&O, and N&W at Columbus, OH Content-Length: 1295 Dear Fellow PRRers, I am a PRR modeler who also has minor interests in the Norfolk and Western, and, in the Chesapeake and Ohio (the H-8 was one of the most beautiful engines ever built, second of course to the PRR's beautiful Q-2). Currently, while I don't have a PRR "layout design," I would like to focus on Columbus, OH, where the C&O and N&W each had "freight connections and junction points" with the Pennsy (see the July 1954 Official Railway Equipment Register). My focus timeframe will be somewhere in the 1940's through 1950's range. Question: does anyone know of any books or materials that addresses Columbus, OH as a railroad "intersection" with a focus on the PRR, C&O and N&W? For example, there is "Sand Patch -- Clash of Titans" Connellsville book regarding PRR and B&O, etc. Columbus, OH may or may not have been an important "junction point" amongst the PRR, C&O and N&W. Any information on this subject will be very helpful and appreciated. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter. Sincerely, Greg Leary (electronically signed) ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:01:15 EST Subject: 2. Secondary and Shortlines of PA Content-Length: 1030 To all respondents Rob's list is from a 1944 ORER. It lists all of the railroads that the PRR interchanged freight with and the official interchange points. (But isn't a list of all the railroads in Pennsylvania) It's at http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/PRRConnections.shtml Those interested please review the list and if there are missing RRs send them them to me and I will add them to the list. The goal here is to have 2 lists for use in the Railroads of Pennsylvania Map Project: Class 1 Railroads of Pennsylvania. Secondary and Short Lines of Pennsylvania Every one can refer to Rob's list for interchange points. I will bring the maps (mounted in foam core board) to the PRRT&HS meeting in April/May, Also to Reilfest if I can make it this year. Harold R. McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:47:46 -0600 From: Bob Webber Subject: Re: Nscale decals for hoppers Content-Length: 586 At 02:08 PM 1/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >The C-D-S sets that I used, which were for X-29s, had both class >markings and end numbers. > >Dave Freshwater An easy way to use transfers, if you are used to decals, is to obtain some blank decal paper, and apply the transfers to them, and then spray (as a sealer), a gloss or satin coat. The apply decals as normal. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:06:32 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: RR connecting with the PRR Content-Length: 641 On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, George Pierson wrote: > Of course the Ligonier Valley and the Ma & Pa started out as ng Was any of the LV other than the PRR to Kingston part ever not narrow gauge? I thought the line ended its days as narrow gauge, the part through Loyalhanna Gap was lifted and the westbound US30 lanes installed, and the part from there west standard gauged and sold to PRR? Or am I off in left field? -D ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:13:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: RR connecting with the PRR Content-Length: 2230 ---Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, George Pierson wrote: > > > Of course the Ligonier Valley and the Ma & Pa started out as ng > > Was any of the LV other than the PRR to Kingston part ever not narrow > gauge? I thought the line ended its days as narrow gauge, the part through > Loyalhanna Gap was lifted and the westbound US30 lanes installed, and the > part from there west standard gauged and sold to PRR? > > Or am I off in left field? > > -D Off in left field, I'm afraid. The Ligonier Valley was originally built as narrow gauge, in 1870-something. However when Thomas Mellon bought into the company, which was failing at the time, he decreed that it should be standard gauged, which it was for it's entire length. That was still the 19th century. (The dates are in a book which, unfortunately is 100 miles from here.) You are partially right about the westbound lanes of US30 being built on the LV grade. That project was delayed about a year while the LV hauled aggregate from the old Booth and Flinn quarry near Long Bridge to the Conemaugh flood control dam near Tunnelton. East of Idelwild Park the eastbound lanes of US30 occupied the old LV grade. But the whole LV was standard gauge, as witness the multiple PRR passenger trains from Pittsburgh and elsewhere in western Pennsylvania that used to pass through Latrobe on their way to Idlewild Park; the 4 and 5 car trains of private cars on their way to the annual steeplechase meet in Ligonier; and the frequent trains of borrowed PRR passenger cars used by the LV in the summer. Bob Netzlof ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:57:17 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: AS24m, or DL600b, or RSD15 Content-Length: 1850 >All, > >I recently purchased a brass model of an Alco DL600b (RSD15) PRR >designation AS24m. I have completed all of the repairs, repowering and >removal of non-PRR appropriate details. I now have a model of a generic >AS24m and wish to detail it. I have only located a handful of pictures of >it in Pennsy Diesel Years 2 and A Pennsy Diesel Power Review. Does anyone >know of other published pictures? How many did PRR have? How many had >TrainPhone installed? >From PENNSY POWER II: (plenty of pictures) Class AS24m (alco switcher, 2400 hp), original road numbers 8611-8616 reclassed ARS24, renumbered 6811-6816 (date?) SHORT hood forward (unlike many GPs) ALL trainphone equipped Long ALCO drop step My understanding was that these locomotives were most often used in snapper service on Horseshoe curve. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "The weather is here, wish you were beautiful" - Jimmy Buffet _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bill.laird@coastalcorp.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 8:12:35 -0600 Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale -Reply Content-Length: 1913 I recently modeled PRR 500000 (the unpressurized one). Although not an exact model, I feel it gives the "look" of the car. I used the picture in the Sunshine PRR Equipment book as a guide. I started with an undec Atlas LPG car. I removed the top centerline walkway and replaced it with a brass one along one side, fabricated a brass hand rail and plastic supports under the walkway. I removed the trucks, fabricated new bolsters and mounted buckeye 6 wheel trucks (Athearn or MDC, I can't remember), fabricated some support members and lift rings that I could see in the photograph. I painted and decaled the car. I made my own decals (black lettering) using a word processing program and laser printer. While a little shorter than the prototype, the model, I feel, gives the look of the car and is certainly distinctive in a consist. Bill Laird Houston, Texas ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The Rail Whale is coming to Strasburg and the Railroad Museum of Pa. >This is an 86' experimental tank car, class TP-1 that was built by the >Pennsylvania Railroad in the 1960s. It is curently undergoing repairs at >the Conrail shops. Sight unseen, but apparently it sat on six wheel >trucks and did not have a frame. Can anyone else add to this story? Any >ideas for modeling in HO? The bigest tank kit I could find was about 10' >short and may not have the correct profile. > >Thanks, >Mike ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listservÉdsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmasterÉdsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 09:08:59 CST Subject: More on the Ligonier Valley Content-Length: 1021 On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, George Pierson wrote: > Of course the Ligonier Valley and the Ma & Pa started out as ng Was any of the LV other than the PRR to Kingston part ever not narrow gauge? I thought the line ended its days as narrow gauge, the part through Loyalhanna Gap was lifted and the westbound US30 lanes installed, and the part from there west standard gauged and sold to PRR? Hi, everyone, Although I don't have my reference material with me, I'm quite sure that the Ligonier Valley ended its days as a st. gauge line. It was converted from 3 ft. in the late 1800's - say around 1885, but I'd have to check. After that the n.g. was completely gone. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:09:24 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Re: 2. Secondary and Shortlines of PA Content-Length: 740 At 06:01 PM 1/19/98 EST, you wrote: >To all respondents > >Rob's list is from a 1944 ORER. It lists all of the railroads that the PRR >interchanged freight >with and the official interchange points. (But isn't a list of all the >railroads in Pennsylvania) >It's at >http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/PRRConnections.shtml Greetings, Try this This will get you to the home page. Go from there for PRR connections. Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:10:30 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: Middle Division Tunnels (fwd) Content-Length: 1267 (Hooray for stupid POS mailing list software which doesn't do subscribe inactive. Anyhow:) On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Mark D Bej wrote: > Harold, > on the Middle Division _per se_, none. The tunnels at the top of the > grade, Gallitzin/Tunnelhill, are Pittsburgh Division, technically. > So were the tunnels just at the west end of Greensburg (now gone). Only one is gone. The northernmost tunnel still exists but has no tracks in it! When you get to Greengate Road (I think is the name of it, it runs north for US 30 just east of Greengate Mall) and the road which runs parallel to the tracks north of the tracks, the right of way heads east just across the intersection from the end of the road from Jeanette, back behind the carpet place. If you continue north on Greengate Road to PA 130, and make a right there, then go east to Mount Thor Road, and turn right (south) you can see the old abutments from the bridge over the road that headed to the old tunnel from the east side, just north of the bridge over the road the current ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 20 Jan 98 13:04:37 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: Tunnels.. Content-Length: 1533 PRRMAN wrote: > >In the days before 30th Street and Suburban Station, the vast majority >of trains ran into Broad Street (and backed out if they were continuing >south.) But some of the hottest NY-Washington or Florida jobs would >skip Broad Street in order to avoid the time-consuming >reverse move. They would stop only at "West Philadelphia", which was >located at 32nd and Market Sts. These trains used the Grays Ferry >Branch, although it wasn't called a "branch" in those days. > Are you referring to the time period after the Broad Street train shed burnt down, when there were just umbrella shelters over the platforms? Did trains really "head in" to the Broad Street train shed, or did arriving trains back in from the junction, to try and keep the smoke and steam away from detraining/entraining passengers, and to keep it from accumulating in the shed? This would also make sense, to reduce the possibility of fire danger to the station itself from hot cinders. I really don't know how it was done, it just seems that the 'smoky' part of the train would be kept out toward the opening of the train shed... that, and I think every shot I have seen of Broad Street station shows that locomotives coupled to trains in the station are facing west. -- Doug Drew ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Timonium Show Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 14:51:55 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 994 >From my post about the Greenberg Show last week it became clear that when people talk about the "Timonium Show" that they are not talking about the "Greenberg Show in Timonium". Who sponsors the Timonium show that is the "biggie" and when is it next scheduled? The "Greenberg/Timonium" show is scheduled as follows: March 21-22, 1998: Greenberg Great Train, Doll & Toy Show - Maryland State Fairgrounds, Exhibition Hall, Timonium, Md. Show hours: Saturday 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Sunday 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $5 Adults; $2 Ages 6 to 12; Children under 6 FREE. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Timonium Show Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 15:52:48 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton Content-Length: 856 On 1/20/98 4:47 PM, carl.haslett@lmco.com (carl.haslett@lmco.com) wrote: >PS: Generally, the show is 3 times a year: end of Jan, mid-to-end of >June, mid-to-end of October (usually Halloween week) George Eichorn has already sent me info. I've got four sets of dates...all added to my "Timetable" page. See http://prr.dsop.com/timetable.html . The next one is only a week away...Jan 31-Feb 1. Hafta try to make it...it's only an hour away! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:40:46 EST Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes Content-Length: 1213 There are always exceptions. The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five stripe scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was not truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle Keystone hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the passenger sharks which did have the same striping appled. Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no stripe. Swithcers and non-cab units had only the name on the side of the long hood. This was followed by the post 1966 variations of large numbers on cab with name, large numbers no name and no keystones, large number with keystones and no name. THere was one VO 660 or VO 1000 (do recall which) assigned to Sunnyside yard in NY which was painted Tuscan. Assigned service was switching the coad yards. Also of note is the unknown total number but at least 3 K4s painted tuscan in the 30's. Experiment which did not last long. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:25:21 -0500 From: "Harry W. Fitch IV" Subject: Re: Timonium Show Content-Length: 1578 At 02:51 PM 1/20/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote: >From my post about the Greenberg Show last week it became clear that when >people talk about the "Timonium Show" that they are not talking about the >"Greenberg Show in Timonium". > >Who sponsors the Timonium show that is the "biggie" and when is it next >scheduled? > Jerry, There are two main events for railroad and model enthusiasts that are held at Timonium Maryland. The Greenberg Show makes it's appearance there during the year and also, there is a Scale Train Show that meets at the Maryland State Fairground at Timonium. The "Scale Show" is the one you want from the sound of your modeling interests and needs. I think one of the fellows behind it (scale show)is Howard Zane if I recall correctly. The Greenberg Show is second only to the York meet for toy train collectors and operators. Greenberg's speciality is toy trains so do not expect a great variety of scale items. They are there but not in great quantities. Watch for layout display information on Greenberg Shows. Since Kalmbach owns Greenberg, they make available their show/project layouts to the Greenberg events. Remember the PRR railroad that Mr. Frary built in an MR project article? It was on display at one of the Greenberg shows I went to. Harry W. Fitch IV hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:55:31 EST Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes Content-Length: 632 In a message dated 98-01-20 16:18:26 EST, SUVCWORR@aol.com writes: << There are always exceptions. The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five stripe scheme. >> There are always exceptions. There were F7B units painted tuscan with five stripes (no nose stripes, obviously). They were purchased with the dual- service FP7s, and spent most of their time pulling freight. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:57:24 EST Subject: X-29's in Passenger Service Content-Length: 638 According to 1953 ORER following ranges of X-29's were equipped for passenger train service: # 49314 to 57641 (6,886 cars) # 97949 to 103323 (4,225 cars) -------------- TOTAL 11,111 cars If - at some time - the full number ranges had been filled the total could have been as high as 13,700 cars - Don't know how many were labeled "Railway Express Service" Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:58:28 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: Timonium Show Content-Length: 1661 Greetings to Jerry and the group, The show I was referring to, that is in Timonium, is "The Great Scale Train Show". Just got a card in the mail for the next one. This show used to come to the Expo Mart in Monroeville until the Greenburg Shows began. The Greenburg Shows also play Timonium. That may be where the confusion comes from. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 02:51 PM 1/20/98 -0400, Jerry_Britton wrote: >>From my post about the Greenberg Show last week it became clear that when >people talk about the "Timonium Show" that they are not talking about the >"Greenberg Show in Timonium". > >Who sponsors the Timonium show that is the "biggie" and when is it next >scheduled? > >The "Greenberg/Timonium" show is scheduled as follows: >March 21-22, 1998: Greenberg Great Train, Doll & Toy Show - Maryland >State Fairgrounds, Exhibition Hall, Timonium, Md. Show hours: Saturday >11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.; Sunday 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $5 >Adults; $2 Ages 6 to 12; Children under 6 FREE. > > > >--------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com >Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Timonium Show Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 17:05:37 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Content-Length: 937 The Scale show at Timonium is definitely one of the better shows I've been to for HO scale trains. Haven't been able to make it there for a while though (It's about a 3 hour drive...) Last time I went I got a Sunset J1 for $160! ('bout two years ago.) About the only show around here that I thought was better was the one in Springfield, Mass. For me it's only a bit farther than Timmonium. Unfortunately they're both on the same weekend (Jan 31/Feb 1) so I guess I'll have to skip Timmonium this time. (unlike Springfield, the Timmonium shows are held a few times a year) I guess for most folks on the list Springfield is a bit too far, but for if it isn't too far it's definitely worth the trip... Rob ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 17:17:38 -0500 Content-Length: 1133 Re: Rich Orr's comment of shark painting: There are always exceptions. The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five stripe scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was not truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle Keystone hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the passenger sharks which did have the same striping appled. Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no stripe. . . . - ------- I had always believed that: 1. only the passenger sharks had the 5 stripe - no nose stripe scheme. 2. freight sharks came in two schemes: A. 5 stripe DGLE with nose stripes and circle KS aft of the cab B. single stripe DGLE a la EMD units 3. sharks were the only freight locos to recieve the 5 stripe scheme IN DGLE, FP7 recieved the 5 stripe scheme in Tuscan. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:49:07 EST Subject: Re: Railroads Content-Length: 1103 In a message dated 98-01-18 17:05:00 EST, you write: << Subj: Re: Railroads Date: 98-01-18 17:05:00 EST From: SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCW ORR) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Since this seems to have expanded to all railroads in PA Montour Cambria & Indiana Coudersport & Port Allegheny Lake Erie, Franklin & Clairon Union McKeesport Connecting Mononghela Connecting Winfield Ligonier Valley Carbon County Chestnut Ridge Connemaugh & Black Lick Cornwall Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain Ironton Johnstown & Stony Creek Lackawanna & wyoming VAlley Pittsburgh, Allegheny & McKees Rocks PIttsburgh & Ohio Valley Pittsburgh, CHartiers & Youghiogheny Unity Upper Merion & Plymouth Valley Rich Orr >> To which add: Northhampton & Bath Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Judge David Carey Subject: Lehigh and Hudson River Locomotive Lettering Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:17 -0700 Content-Length: 568 Since we're on the subject of connecting roads, does anybody know the color used for lettering on Lehigh and Hudson River steam locomotives.? I was under the impression that it was something similar to dulux. I ask because Bachmann Spectrum consolidation locomotives (but not tenders) appear to be reasonably close matches to L & H R consolidations. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:42:05 -0000 Content-Length: 3356 The VOs were Baldwin Diesel switchers, B-B wheel arrangement. Does anyone out there know WHY they happened to be tuscan? Jim -----Original Message----- From: Carl K Vogel To: SUVCWORR@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 4:16 AM Subject: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) >Rich: > >I have been following this conversation quietly. But, one comment you >made really exites me. I model PRR in LGB large scale. My mogul (not >exactly PRR prototypical) was painted tuscan red. now, we all know that >their steam engines were not tuscan red......until I read your statement >about the 3 K4's painted in the 1930's. > >I would love to update the LGB Chat group on this information....that the >PRR had some steam engines in Tuscan red. > >You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also >tuscan red. > >What is their wheel arrangement? They sound like steamers. Were they? > >I will pass this onto the LGB chat group with great pleasure. > >I'm probably the only one running LGB PRR on this chat line. I also have >HO, but it is put away since the 3 year old destroyed the tracks. > >LGB is not protypically accurate in most areas since my set is based on >narrow gauge PRR (existed in Western Penna). But, they never had a >drover's caboose. Horrors!! > >But...its fun anyway! > >Thanks, > >Carl K.Vogel >Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer >Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > >On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:40:46 EST SUVCW ORR writes: >>There are always exceptions. >> >>The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five >>stripe >>scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was >>not >>truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle >>Keystone >>hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the >>passenger sharks >>which did have the same striping appled. >> >>Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no stripe. >> >>Swithcers and non-cab units had only the name on the side of the long >>hood. >>This was followed by the post 1966 variations of large numbers on cab >>with >>name, large numbers no name and no keystones, large number with >>keystones and >>no name. >> >>THere was one VO 660 or VO 1000 (do recall which) assigned to >>Sunnyside yard >>in NY which was painted Tuscan. Assigned service was switching the >>coad >>yards. >> >>Also of note is the unknown total number but at least 3 K4s painted >>tuscan in >>the 30's. Experiment which did not last long. >> >>Rich Orr >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >>"listmaster@dsop.com". >> > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:42:26 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller" Subject: Re: Update - Major Railroads of Pennsylvania Content-Length: 2008 At 01:52 PM 1/19/98 CST, George Pierson wrote: > >One excellent source, indeed THE source on Keystone State railroads, is a >book by Thomas T. Taber III called (I think) ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE RAILROADS >OF PENNSYLVANIA. I don't know if Taber still has any for sale but he list >EVERY railroad, including many smaller lines and industrial pikes and give >very complete accounts of trackage, with loco rosters where known. If you >want more info, let me know and I'll post Taber's address. > _Rairoads of Pennsylvania Encycolpedia and AtlasI got my copy at the Strasburg RR (please don't tell my EBT friends I was there) bookstore in '93 ... $75 a copy, but given the limited run and means of production (professionally bound volume on photocopied hand typed pages w/ color photocopies of track maps for each county in PA AND for each RR in PA) I'd say it's worth it ... he even includes complete information on paper RR's that were never built. And, unlike his series on PA logging (which lacks footnotes on his obviously extensive research), many references are listed in his textual descriptions. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh, PA vagelk@usaor.net THE INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE HOMEPAGE http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk _||_||_ || || || || || ||\ || || || || ||_||\\ /\_||__||__||__||_/\ \\ // \\ o x o x o x o . . . \/ \ \\ o _____ | | / \ >][_n_n_|HH] /====___ ________ ________ (_______|__]_[_______]_|\____/| |\____/| _/o OOOO o` oo oo 'oo oo' 'oo oo' ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:47:24 -0500 Subject: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) Content-Length: 2679 Rich: I have been following this conversation quietly. But, one comment you made really exites me. I model PRR in LGB large scale. My mogul (not exactly PRR prototypical) was painted tuscan red. now, we all know that their steam engines were not tuscan red......until I read your statement about the 3 K4's painted in the 1930's. I would love to update the LGB Chat group on this information....that the PRR had some steam engines in Tuscan red. You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also tuscan red. What is their wheel arrangement? They sound like steamers. Were they? I will pass this onto the LGB chat group with great pleasure. I'm probably the only one running LGB PRR on this chat line. I also have HO, but it is put away since the 3 year old destroyed the tracks. LGB is not protypically accurate in most areas since my set is based on narrow gauge PRR (existed in Western Penna). But, they never had a drover's caboose. Horrors!! But...its fun anyway! Thanks, Carl K.Vogel Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer Taunton & Tuckerton Railway On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:40:46 EST SUVCW ORR writes: >There are always exceptions. > >The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five >stripe >scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was >not >truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle >Keystone >hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the >passenger sharks >which did have the same striping appled. > >Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no stripe. > >Swithcers and non-cab units had only the name on the side of the long >hood. >This was followed by the post 1966 variations of large numbers on cab >with >name, large numbers no name and no keystones, large number with >keystones and >no name. > >THere was one VO 660 or VO 1000 (do recall which) assigned to >Sunnyside yard >in NY which was painted Tuscan. Assigned service was switching the >coad >yards. > >Also of note is the unknown total number but at least 3 K4s painted >tuscan in >the 30's. Experiment which did not last long. > >Rich Orr > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:02:33 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 3291 Hello! Tuscan red steamers?!?!? So how were they painted? I just might get a K4 simply to paint it. Any info would be great! I model in N and it would be a neat and unique addition! Thanks, Roger Elliott Carl K Vogel wrote: > Rich: > > I have been following this conversation quietly. But, one comment you > made really exites me. I model PRR in LGB large scale. My mogul (not > exactly PRR prototypical) was painted tuscan red. now, we all know > that > their steam engines were not tuscan red......until I read your > statement > about the 3 K4's painted in the 1930's. > > I would love to update the LGB Chat group on this information....that > the > PRR had some steam engines in Tuscan red. > > You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were > also > tuscan red. > > What is their wheel arrangement? They sound like steamers. Were they? > > I will pass this onto the LGB chat group with great pleasure. > > I'm probably the only one running LGB PRR on this chat line. I also > have > HO, but it is put away since the 3 year old destroyed the tracks. > > LGB is not protypically accurate in most areas since my set is based > on > narrow gauge PRR (existed in Western Penna). But, they never had a > drover's caboose. Horrors!! > > But...its fun anyway! > > Thanks, > > Carl K.Vogel > Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer > Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > > On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:40:46 EST SUVCW ORR writes: > >There are always exceptions. > > > >The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five > >stripe > >scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was > >not > >truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle > >Keystone > >hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the > >passenger sharks > >which did have the same striping appled. > > > >Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no > stripe. > > > >Swithcers and non-cab units had only the name on the side of the long > > >hood. > >This was followed by the post 1966 variations of large numbers on cab > > >with > >name, large numbers no name and no keystones, large number with > >keystones and > >no name. > > > >THere was one VO 660 or VO 1000 (do recall which) assigned to > >Sunnyside yard > >in NY which was painted Tuscan. Assigned service was switching the > >coad > >yards. > > > >Also of note is the unknown total number but at least 3 K4s painted > >tuscan in > >the 30's. Experiment which did not last long. > > > >Rich Orr > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:18:12 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 491 The only Baldwin that I know of painted red was the 5916 a VO-1000 that was originally assigned to Sunnyside yard switching passenger equiptment. It was later transferred to Camden's Pavonia engine house and used in local freight service still in red for awhile. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 7:26:58 EST From: Subject: fwd: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 1026 ------------- Original Text From: K KOLLAR@DS@193SOW, on 1/21/98 7:24 AM: To: SMTP@193SOG@PAMDT[] If my memory serves me correct there is a picture of this switcher in Don Ball's book, Pennsylvania RR, 40s & 50s. Kris Kollar --------- From: KEMACPRR , on 1/21/98 3:18 AM: The only Baldwin that I know of painted red was the 5916 a VO-1000 that was originally assigned to Sunnyside yard switching passenger equiptment. It was later transferred to Camden's Pavonia engine house and used in local freight service still in red for awhile. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: X-29's in Passenger Service From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:11:02 -0500 Content-Length: 1306 I believe that the range shown in the ORER is not fully populated. I own a 52 ORER and as I recall there is a footnote in which they enumerate each individual number in the range which is actually borne by a car. The total number of cars in passenger service is around 1000. There is also a range of four-digit numbers carried by X29's in passenger service. They are the first PRR entries in my ORER. regards Andy Miller - ----------- According to 1953 ORER following ranges of X-29's were equipped for passenger train service: # 49314 to 57641 (6,886 cars) # 97949 to 103323 (4,225 cars) -------------- TOTAL 11,111 cars If - at some time - the full number ranges had been filled the total could have been as high as 13,700 cars - Don't know how many were labeled "Railway Express Service" Dick Ross - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:43:56 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: PSU Altoona Railroad Conference Dates Content-Length: 733 Greetings to the group, It's official. The railroad conference is back. This year's conference is titled "The Railroad in American Life". The dates are June 18 - 21. The tradition lives on. As it has in the past, the conference ends on Father's Day. For more information, please contact the Office of Distance and Continuing Eduaction at Penn State Altoona College. (Yes we are a College now.) The phone number is 814-949-5048. I'll provide a list of the speakers in a later post. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:17:02 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: Tuscan Baldwins Content-Length: 1774 At 01:42 AM 1/21/98 -0000, you wrote: >The VOs were Baldwin Diesel switchers, B-B wheel arrangement. Does anyone >out there know WHY they happened to be tuscan? > >Jim Greetings, According to John D. Hahn,Jr. in his book PRR Diesel Locomotive Pictorial, Vol 2-Baldwin Switchers from which I quote. "One oddity was 5916, which was painted Tuscan red. The unit was originally assigned to switch passenger cars at Sunnyside Yard in New York, and retained this colorful scheme after being reassigned to the Philadelphia Reigon. This was apparently the only switching unit painted in this manner." This is a VO-1000. I wonder if the Passenger DRS-4-4-1000, RS-12's or the AS-616's were painted Tuscan red. Classes BS-10as, BS-12ams, BS-12as and BS-16ms were steam generator equipped. Anybody out there know???? While we are on the color schemes, were any of the various Alco units painted anything but DGLE? There were 2 RS-1's (AS-10as) delivered with steam generators for Yard duty. There were 2 RS-1's (AS10-ams) delivered with steam generators, assigned to Norfolk Reigon. There were 29 RS-3's (AS-16ms) delivered with steam generators, most assigned to the Pittsburgh Reigon. Were any of these units painted in Tuscan in 1956? The RSD-7's (APS-24ms) were ordered for passenger service, all equipped with steam generators, assigned to the Pittsburgh Reigon. Most if not all of the above lasted in service till 1968 merger. Comments anyone???? Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:35:21 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/21/98 Content-Length: 1302 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Rich: > > I have been following this conversation quietly. But, one comment you > made really exites me. I model PRR in LGB large scale. My mogul (not > exactly PRR prototypical) was painted tuscan red. now, we all know that > their steam engines were not tuscan red......until I read your statement > about the 3 K4's painted in the 1930's. > > I would love to update the LGB Chat group on this information....that the > PRR had some steam engines in Tuscan red. > Karl... Yes, it is true that the PRR had at least 10 K4s locomotives painted in Tucsan Red (2761, 5409, and 5436 are the only known locomotive numbers) in the 1930's. > You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also > tuscan red. > > What is their wheel arrangement? They sound like steamers. Were they? No. These are Baldwin Diesel Swithcers...a photo of it is in Don Ball's THE PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD IN THE 1940'S AND 1950'S after it's reassignment to the wilds of New Jersey. Bill Daniels ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 09:38:54 CST Subject: Taber book Content-Length: 791 Hi, everyone, I wholeheartedly agree with Vagel Keller's posting on Tom Taber's ENCYC OF PA RR. I doubt he has any copies left but you never know. His address is: Thomas T. Taber III, 504 S. Main St., Muncy, PA 17756. Also check places like the Strasburg bookstore. You might also get it through inter-library loan. The book was self-published by Taber in 1987 and the ISBN # is 0- 9603398-5-x. Trust me...it's worth the effort. PRR Forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:15:55 EST Subject: Re: P2K E8's Still Available in PRR Content-Length: 343 In a message dated 98-01-19 11:13:12 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: << Did P2K do any others in PRR? >> FA-2 A and B Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:34:25 -0500 (EST) From: "James R. Hunter" Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 4010 Hello all- I have only seen one picture of a Baldwin VO painted Tuscan, and it was operating in South Jersey. I doubt that all of the units in that class were so painted. Jim Hunter On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, W. Jim Hudson wrote: > The VOs were Baldwin Diesel switchers, B-B wheel arrangement. Does anyone > out there know WHY they happened to be tuscan? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl K Vogel > To: SUVCWORR@aol.com > Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 4:16 AM > Subject: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) > > > >Rich: > > > >I have been following this conversation quietly. But, one comment you > >made really exites me. I model PRR in LGB large scale. My mogul (not > >exactly PRR prototypical) was painted tuscan red. now, we all know that > >their steam engines were not tuscan red......until I read your statement > >about the 3 K4's painted in the 1930's. > > > >I would love to update the LGB Chat group on this information....that the > >PRR had some steam engines in Tuscan red. > > > >You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also > >tuscan red. > > > >What is their wheel arrangement? They sound like steamers. Were they? > > > >I will pass this onto the LGB chat group with great pleasure. > > > >I'm probably the only one running LGB PRR on this chat line. I also have > >HO, but it is put away since the 3 year old destroyed the tracks. > > > >LGB is not protypically accurate in most areas since my set is based on > >narrow gauge PRR (existed in Western Penna). But, they never had a > >drover's caboose. Horrors!! > > > >But...its fun anyway! > > > >Thanks, > > > >Carl K.Vogel > >Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer > >Taunton & Tuckerton Railway > > > >On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:40:46 EST SUVCW ORR writes: > >>There are always exceptions. > >> > >>The sharks were the only freight locomotives to receive the five > >>stripe > >>scheme. They came both with and without the nose stripes. This was > >>not > >>truely the passenger five stripe scheme since it includes the circle > >>Keystone > >>hearld. Although the exception in the other direction is the > >>passenger sharks > >>which did have the same striping appled. > >> > >>Freight cab units only had two designs -- single stripe and no stripe. > >> > >>Swithcers and non-cab units had only the name on the side of the long > >>hood. > >>This was followed by the post 1966 variations of large numbers on cab > >>with > >>name, large numbers no name and no keystones, large number with > >>keystones and > >>no name. > >> > >>THere was one VO 660 or VO 1000 (do recall which) assigned to > >>Sunnyside yard > >>in NY which was painted Tuscan. Assigned service was switching the > >>coad > >>yards. > >> > >>Also of note is the unknown total number but at least 3 K4s painted > >>tuscan in > >>the 30's. Experiment which did not last long. > >> > >>Rich Orr > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------- > >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > >>"listmaster@dsop.com". > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:12:21 EST Subject: Re: X-29's in Passenger Service Content-Length: 1194 In a message dated 98-01-20 17:59:39 EST, VVA249@AOL.COM writes: << According to 1953 ORER following ranges of X-29's were equipped for passenger train service: # 49314 to 57641 (6,886 cars) # 97949 to 103323 (4,225 cars) -------------- TOTAL 11,111 cars If - at some time - the full number ranges had been filled the total could have been as high as 13,700 cars - Don't know how many were labeled "Railway Express Service" >> If you look beside the number range in the second column of the ORER there is an endnote letter. If you turn to the last several pages of the PRR section and look up the end note, it will give the exact cars assigned to passenger service. This holds true for any issue of the ORER and also for the X31/A cars assigned to passenger service in the 40's. These end notes contain a wealth of information that should be used in conjunction with the ORER listing. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 12:16:45 EST From: Subject: Sunbury Branch Content-Length: 1237 Can anyone tell me provide a little more background nformation to me about operations in the Nanticoke, PA area. The PRR had a station there near the Susquehanna then the line proceeded up to Wilkes-Barre where I believe it terminated. At Nanticoke, a line branched away from the main and proceeded to serve the small communities of Honey Pot, Sheatown, Alden (I'm not sure if there were stations here or only freight loading areas) and then on to serve the anthracite coal breaker in Glen Lyon. I believe the branch terminated at this point. What I'm trying to find out is at what point in time the passenger station would have stopped operating in Nanticoke and what time the PRR would have ceased servicing the colliery in Glen Lyon. I'm trying to build a plan for my future layout. I have a copy (supplied by another PRR-Talk er) of a time table from the early 30s but I plan to establish my time period in the early 50s. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Kris Kollar ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:35:10 EST Subject: Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes Content-Length: 1604 In a message dated 98-01-20 18:58:20 EST, asmiller@mail11.mitre.org writes: << I had always believed that: 1. only the passenger sharks had the 5 stripe - no nose stripe scheme. 2. freight sharks came in two schemes: A. 5 stripe DGLE with nose stripes and circle KS aft of the cab B. single stripe DGLE a la EMD units 3. sharks were the only freight locos to recieve the 5 stripe scheme IN DGLE, FP7 recieved the 5 stripe scheme in Tuscan. >> Andy: Your are correct the freight sharks did not come without the nose stripes. However, the only the first two (if I remember correctly) sets (ABA) of FP7 were painted Tuscan with five stripe. However, initially since these were dual service units they treated as passneger uinits. This practice was quickly abandoned as freight miles far exceeded passenger miles and the remainder of the FP7 order were delivered in DGLE freight single stripe. So if the PRR considered the first two sets to be passenger units at the time they were purchased and they were painted so, does this mean the passenger scheme was applied to freight or passenger units. . It is topics such as this that keep discussions going. We can never know which is truely the correct answer and most if not all who did are dead. So we can agree that it is an anomaly. Just as the VO that was painted tuscan. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:49:00 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 775 In a message dated 98-01-20 23:00:31 EST, carl-vic-vogel@juno.com writes: << You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also tuscan red. >> The VO and VO1000 were Baldwin diesel switchers. There is very little known about the K4s which were painted Tuscan. There are photographs of three different ones. I do not have any of these but ahve seen two prints. They may have been some paintshop foreman's idea which was never given Philadelphia's approval. There has been much speculation but few hard facts. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:52:54 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 738 In a message dated 98-01-21 00:26:46 EST, relliott@mail.telis.org writes: << Tuscan red steamers?!?!? So how were they painted? I just might get a K4 simply to paint it. Any info would be great! I model in N and it would be a neat and unique addition! >> This is purely from memory of two photos. Basically everything that is DGLE is Tuscan. Also as I recall the frame, cylinders, pilot, and wheel spokes were tuscan on the locomotive. The smoke box, firebox and ash pan were front end color. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:56:28 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 638 In a message dated 98-01-21 01:41:13 EST, wjhudson@erols.com writes: << The VOs were Baldwin Diesel switchers, B-B wheel arrangement. Does anyone out there know WHY they happened to be tuscan? >> Jim, there was only one unit painted this way. It was assigned to Sunnyside yard in NY and used to switch the coach yard. Pure guess. They didn't want a DGLE engine among all those tuscan passenger cars. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:59:21 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Content-Length: 699 In a message dated 98-01-21 03:23:12 EST, KEMACPRR@aol.com writes: << The only Baldwin that I know of painted red was the 5916 a VO-1000 that was originally assigned to Sunnyside yard switching passenger equiptment. It was later transferred to Camden's Pavonia engine house and used in local freight service still in red for awhile. Ken McCorry >> Thanks, Ken That's the one. As I said in my original post I didn't remember if it was a Vo660 or a VO1000. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:09:18 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Baldwins Content-Length: 1464 In a message dated 98-01-21 09:24:10 EST, hosam@gc.net writes: << While we are on the color schemes, were any of the various Alco units painted anything but DGLE? There were 2 RS-1's (AS-10as) delivered with steam generators for Yard duty. There were 2 RS-1's (AS10-ams) delivered with steam generators, assigned to Norfolk Reigon. There were 29 RS-3's (AS-16ms) delivered with steam generators, most assigned to the Pittsburgh Reigon. Were any of these units painted in Tuscan in 1956? The RSD-7's (APS-24ms) were ordered for passenger service, all equipped with steam generators, assigned to the Pittsburgh Reigon. Most if not all of the above lasted in service till 1968 merger. Comments anyone???? >> None of these units were painted tuscan. The RS-1's were assigned to yard duty and used to heaten cars while switching. The RS-2's, RS-3's and RSD-7's were all used in commuter service in and around Pittsburgh at least for part of their life. They did so in DGLE. Since most commuter runs were in the morning and evening, these units were used in freight service when not need for passenger service. The same is true for the various Baldwins. Only the one VO-1000 was ever painted Tuscan. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: RE: Sunbury Branch Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:13:31 -0500 Content-Length: 1397 > Can anyone tell me provide a little more background nformation to me > about > operations in the Nanticoke, PA area. The PRR had a station there > near the > Susquehanna then the line proceeded up to Wilkes-Barre where I believe > it > terminated. At Nanticoke, a line branched away from the main and > proceeded > to serve the small communities of Honey Pot, Sheatown, Alden (I'm not > sure > if there were stations here or only freight loading areas) and then on > to > serve the anthracite coal breaker in Glen Lyon. I believe the branch > terminated at this point. What I'm trying to find out is at what > point in > time the passenger station would have stopped operating in Nanticoke > and > what time the PRR would have ceased servicing the colliery in Glen > Lyon. > > I'm trying to build a plan for my future layout. I have a copy > (supplied > by another PRR-Talk er) of a time table from the early 30s but I plan > to > establish my time period in the early 50s. Any help would be greatly > appreciated. > > While you're at it, I'm curious as to what typical motive power on > this line was > in steam and diesel eras. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCS]" Subject: PRR Steam Assignment Question Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:14:53 -0500 Content-Length: 358 What were the typical assignments for L1 2-8-2s, I1 2-10-0s, and M1 4-8-2s? Where were these typically used, especially in eastern PA? Bill ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 16:22:04 -0500 Content-Length: 1253 Part of the problem with describing the T/R K4s may be that they were done and gone before color photography was invented! The only fotos will be in B&W. Tough to tell black from gray from DGLE from T/R in a B&W print. regards Andy Miller - ----------- In a message dated 98-01-20 23:00:31 EST, carl-vic-vogel@juno.com writes: << You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also tuscan red. >> The VO and VO1000 were Baldwin diesel switchers. There is very little known about the K4s which were painted Tuscan. There are photographs of three different ones. I do not have any of these but ahve seen two prints. They may have been some paintshop foreman's idea which was never given Philadelphia's approval. There has been much speculation but few hard facts. Rich Orr - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 16:22:04 -0500 Content-Length: 1253 Part of the problem with describing the T/R K4s may be that they were done and gone before color photography was invented! The only fotos will be in B&W. Tough to tell black from gray from DGLE from T/R in a B&W print. regards Andy Miller - ----------- In a message dated 98-01-20 23:00:31 EST, carl-vic-vogel@juno.com writes: << You also mentioned aVO660 or a VO1000 that were switchers that were also tuscan red. >> The VO and VO1000 were Baldwin diesel switchers. There is very little known about the K4s which were painted Tuscan. There are photographs of three different ones. I do not have any of these but ahve seen two prints. They may have been some paintshop foreman's idea which was never given Philadelphia's approval. There has been much speculation but few hard facts. Rich Orr - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Tuscan Baldwins Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:16:48 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Content-Length: 836 On 21 Jan, SUVCW ORR wrote: > [ ... ] The RS-2's, RS-3's and RSD-7's > were all used in commuter service in and around Pittsburgh at least for part > of their life. They did so in DGLE. [ ... ] Also in Chicago; there's a good picture in Solomon and Shafer's new book of an RS(-3, I think) in this service, in DGLE pulling tuscan coaches. Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: REcent Conrail changes Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:46:30 EST Content-Length: 2497 Jerry, please feel free to cross-post to conrail-talk. Highlights: (note this is a summary of the last year's worth of changes) Albany Division: 1) System timetable #6 is out as of 15 Jan 1998. NORAC rules version 6 remain in effect. 2) Bunches of changes at CP-223, near Utica, with this interlocking being removed from service. 3) CP-293, west of Syracuse, also removed. 4) Portions of Lockport Branch downgraded to DCS (train order) operation. 5) Portions of Corning Secondary downgraded to DCS; Geneva passing siding transferred to Finger Lakes Rwy Corp Dearborn Division: 1) QUAKER (Cleveland) and ALEXIS (Toledo) towers closed. 2) Porter Branch mileposts renumbered. 3) Toledo Branch portions transferred to Indianapolis dspr. Indianapolis Division: 1) Nothing terribly interesting, except that Xenia Industrial Track has been designated "Excepted Track". This means no movement of hazardous cargo, no movement of passengers, severe speed restriction. This trackage was once PRR's "Main Line -- Columbus to St. Louis" and carried much varnish. Philadelphia Division: 1) Various and sundry signal changes on Harrisburg Line. 2) CP-VIRGINIA to RO (Washington, D.C. main line to Potomac Yard, Alexandria, Virginia) appears to have been completely resignalled with color light signals. Apparently, position lights remain north of VIRGINIA to the NEC at LANDOVER. 3) 3 [rock]slide detectors put in place in Milepost 72-76 range. 4) Closing of TRENT tower summarized. 5) UPPER BAY tower signalling is markedly simplified and downgraded, pursuant to Greenville Yard's lower status under Conrail, vis-a-vis the ex-Lehigh Valley Oak Island Yard. (Wonder what will happen with the NS/CSX split??) High signals all converted to color light dwarves. _Notably_, UPPER BAY is not listed as closed, but this sure looks like a prelude. Pittsburgh Division: 1) Controlled siding on Conemaugh Line removed. This is quickly turning into single track all the way: from Conpitt it's double track for about 13 miles, then single for 31, double for 2, single now for 8, double for 1.5, single for 14. This was a 2-track main line as late as 1983. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:33:19 EST Subject: Freight operations circa 10/46 on Erie main and E & P Branch Content-Length: 650 Hi group! I need information on freight operations on the Renovo Division to and The E & P Division during 10/46 to and from Erie, Pa. I model these two lines but have only limited freight operations information. I need symbols of trains , types of engines used, type of merchandise hauled, what extra's were usually run, ect. I know a little about EP -1, W -5 , BEC, EK but no where enough. Thanks in advance. Sincerly, Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:30:52 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: PRR Ore Cars Content-Length: 573 There was a thread going a few days ago discussing the use of PRR - owned ore jennies by the PRR. What their history is I don't know, but I made a trip into Manhattan on Monday and saw lots of the classic design ore cars in Sunnyside yard, lettered LIRR (Long Island), in the 4000 series. Looked like they were in MW or track service. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:09:02 -0600 From: Sample Subject: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? Content-Length: 1546 Hi Gang I am working on a project to calculate how many cars any one steam or diesel engin could pull for given conditions. For an example lets talk about a RS-3: Drawbar HP=82% of rated Horse Power Tractive effort = rated HP x308/Speed Starting tractive effort = 25% of engine weight Drawbar foot pounds = drawbar Horse Power x 33,000.... In our example the engine had 1600 horse power and weighed 259,600 lbs. Starting tractive effort would be 64,900 lbs. and continues tractive effort was 52,500 Horse Power. A picture of this engine is shown on page 214 in the Pennsy Power II book. My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division. Anybody, that has input on my calculations would be someone that I would like to hear from. How about a little rag chewing on this one? Eric Sample janeric@InfoCom.net Ps I have a form that is from Excel and list most of the figures for the engines that I have in my collection. If anyone would like to see it E-mail at the above address for a copy. 73's ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:33:19 EST Subject: Freight operations circa 10/46 on Erie main and E & P Branch Content-Length: 650 Hi group! I need information on freight operations on the Renovo Division to and The E & P Division during 10/46 to and from Erie, Pa. I model these two lines but have only limited freight operations information. I need symbols of trains , types of engines used, type of merchandise hauled, what extra's were usually run, ect. I know a little about EP -1, W -5 , BEC, EK but no where enough. Thanks in advance. Sincerly, Don Murphy ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:30:52 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: PRR Ore Cars Content-Length: 573 There was a thread going a few days ago discussing the use of PRR - owned ore jennies by the PRR. What their history is I don't know, but I made a trip into Manhattan on Monday and saw lots of the classic design ore cars in Sunnyside yard, lettered LIRR (Long Island), in the 4000 series. Looked like they were in MW or track service. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:09:02 -0600 From: Sample Subject: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? Content-Length: 1546 Hi Gang I am working on a project to calculate how many cars any one steam or diesel engin could pull for given conditions. For an example lets talk about a RS-3: Drawbar HP=82% of rated Horse Power Tractive effort = rated HP x308/Speed Starting tractive effort = 25% of engine weight Drawbar foot pounds = drawbar Horse Power x 33,000.... In our example the engine had 1600 horse power and weighed 259,600 lbs. Starting tractive effort would be 64,900 lbs. and continues tractive effort was 52,500 Horse Power. A picture of this engine is shown on page 214 in the Pennsy Power II book. My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division. Anybody, that has input on my calculations would be someone that I would like to hear from. How about a little rag chewing on this one? Eric Sample janeric@InfoCom.net Ps I have a form that is from Excel and list most of the figures for the engines that I have in my collection. If anyone would like to see it E-mail at the above address for a copy. 73's ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:09:32 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) In a message dated 98-01-21 18:58:35 EST, you write: << Subj: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Date: 98-01-21 18:58:35 EST From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com To: SUVCWORR@aol.com (SUVCW ORR), carl-vic-vogel@juno.com, prr-talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk@dsop.com) CC: prr-talk@dsop.com Part of the problem with describing the T/R K4s may be that they were done and gone before color photography was invented! The only fotos will be in B&W. Tough to tell black from gray from DGLE from T/R in a B&W print. regards Andy Miller >> Not necessarily that hard to distinguish colors in the olde days of panchromatic B&W film: some reference graytones from various reds can be found---e.g. "The Georgian Locomotive" (bibliographic reference difficult as I'm at the Chicago end of my commute from my library in Philadelphia)---a shot of a Frisco loco in a shade of red; in B&W, loco obviously not black or Great Northern green---a B&W shot of one of the K4s's in T/R would show the obviously difference from DGLE...follow-on thought is that my eyes grew up with shotting and developing Tri-X, and maybe I just "see" the colors in the pictures. Sorry for the ramble folks: B&W is other than stark contrast prints of winter scenes...maybe Railfan should give first place to a B&W image for the cover contest, it might end the Kodak vs. Fuji debates. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL (the trailing edge technology is computer systems, not photography)... ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doc Morrow Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:23:33 EST Subject: Engine numbers Does anyone know where to find a cross-ref. engine numbers to classes of engine. Steam and Diesel ? thanks.docmorrow@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Engine numbers Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 06:34:25 -0400 From: Jerry On 1/22/98 1:23 AM, Doc Morrow (DocMorrow@aol.com) wrote: > Does anyone know where to find a cross-ref. engine numbers to classes of >engine. Steam and Diesel ? thanks.docmorrow@aol.com http://prr.dsop.com/motiveops Has complete diesel roster by number. Look up the number and it will give you class and purchase year info. Am working on pages for each class, that will list numbers. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 08:02:07 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton I got a call last night from one of the organizers of the March 8 Railroadiana Show at the Zembo Mosque in Harrisburg. The show may be cancelled. The jist of it is that the tax laws allow for individuals to have garage sales, yard sales, etc., once or twice a year, without having any sales tax or income tax burden. With train shows, many of the vendors travel from show to show and do 30+ shows a year. Seems the state doesn't have the resources to track people on an "individual" basis. However, they have found a new way to "crack down". They are now requiring show promotors to provide a list of all vendors (individuals and companies) that have rented tables, along with tax IDs for same. For individuals, that would be a social security number. For companies, their EIN. With very "public" venues such as the Zembo Mosque, the tax folks now what show is coming and when, so the promotor is "on the hook". Providing the list and numbers, however, is the extent of the liability of the promotor. Anyway, when the show organizers contacted those who had reserved tables, in order to secure their tax IDs, over half bailed out. They obviously don't want to get into a taxable situation. As it stands, there are only 30-35 tables rented. A decision about cancellation will be made in a few days. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:02:41 EST Subject: Re: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? 1. Railroads typically had tonnage ratings by locomotive for a given division or some other section of a line, based on the ruling grade. Helpers could affect this. Bob Reid published some of these in the old Pennsy Journal for PRR. 2. I recall reading in the publication of the Operations SIG of the NMRA that the early FTs were rated at 100 tons per axle up Cajon Pass (2.7% grade). That means a 4-unit diesel could haul about 32 loaded freight cars up the hill. 3. There have been some interesting articles, I believe in the Pennsy press, but it could have been the OPSIG publication, about the comparison between diesel and steam and electric in calculating these things. I will look it up when I get a chance, but one type can start a train it can't comfortably run and another can run a train it can't start, to oversimplify. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 7:57:52 EST From: Subject: fwd: Re: Sunbury Branch Outstanding information! Thanks John. Unfortunately it leads to another question. Would detailed maps exist that would trace out these routes? Could maps show the sidings and physical track locations? I have USGS maps from 1954 were I can trace the lines as they proceed through Nanticoke and onto Glen Lyon but their detail is limited because of the scale. Since the PRR was listed as having branches to the coal breakers in this area does that neccessarily mean that it was the major mover of coal out of those coal mines. I know that the CNJ was a primary mover of anthracite coal in this region but was hoping that the PRR hauled most of the traffic in and out. I can picture may future layout with long strings of PRR hoppers both filled and empty moving in and out of the colliery. If anyone can shed some light I'd be much appreciative. regards, Kris ------------- Original Text From: Da72jmk , on 1/21/98 8:19 PM: To: , The 1945 CT1000 E, which I have loaned to Jerry to be scanned and included on Keystone Crossings, has the following information: Honey Pot was 55.4 miles from Sunbury (Passenger Station). There were scales, a telephone office, and a siding (not for carload delivery) at Honey Pot. The junction of the Glen Lyon Branch was 56.4 miles from Sunbury. Following along the main, Nanticoke limits began 56.7 miles from Sunbury. The following industry tracks are listed in Nanticoke: Susquehanna Lumber #1 & #2, Susq. Colls. Co. No. 7, Public Delivery, Luzerne County Gas & Electric Corp., [Anthony Makarczyk+American Cement Black Co.+Anthracite Metal Co (all on one siding], Gibbs Milling Co., Znaniecki Bros., Station (also a telephone office), [O. S. Kerstetler+Superior Ice Cream Co.], and Freight Station. Another connection to the Glen Lyon Branch is listed in Nanticoke, 57.3 miles from Sunbury. There is also a town West Nanticoke, which had interchange with the D.L.&W. RR. On the branch are the following entries, with miles from Sunbury in ( ): Junction Glen Lyon Branch (56.4) as noted above. Junction C.R.R. of N.J. (L&S Branch) (57.0) Conn. to West Nanticoke Branch (57.1) Separator Siding No. 1 (57.4) Separator Siding No. 2 (57.6) Glen Lyon, Pa. (Susq. Collieries Co. No. 6) (61.1) Glen Lyon, Pa. (61.2) No Siding >From a public timetable dated 9/30/45, PRR train 510-570 (westbound) stopped at Nanticoke at 5:45 pm and eastbound 511 stopped there at 10:05 am. Passengers could also ride the DL&W using a PRR ticket. The DL&W stopped at West Nanticoke, which according to the footnote, is across the river from Nanticoke. Equipment is described as "coaches." The Glen Lyon and West Nanticoke branches are listed in the 12/31/54 "Record of Transportation Lines." That's all I could find to contribute. Hope it helps. John Keel ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:18:48 -0600 Subject: Re: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? I know what the person is talking about. My wife and I do between 25 and 30 shows a year in the upper midwest and you have to have a tax ID or they come down on ytou big time. Every state is different in how they handle the tax ID numbers and you have to jump through a whole lof of hoops sometimes just to get one. Jerry_Britton on 01/22/98 06:02:07 AM To: "PRR-Talk" cc: (bcc: Randy Williamson/Marathon) Subject: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? I got a call last night from one of the organizers of the March 8 Railroadiana Show at the Zembo Mosque in Harrisburg. The show may be cancelled. The jist of it is that the tax laws allow for individuals to have garage sales, yard sales, etc., once or twice a year, without having any sales tax or income tax burden. With train shows, many of the vendors travel from show to show and do 30+ shows a year. Seems the state doesn't have the resources to track people on an "individual" basis. However, they have found a new way to "crack down". They are now requiring show promotors to provide a list of all vendors (individuals and companies) that have rented tables, along with tax IDs for same. For individuals, that would be a social security number. For companies, their EIN. With very "public" venues such as the Zembo Mosque, the tax folks now what show is coming and when, so the promotor is "on the hook". Providing the list and numbers, however, is the extent of the liability of the promotor. Anyway, when the show organizers contacted those who had reserved tables, in order to secure their tax IDs, over half bailed out. They obviously don't want to get into a taxable situation. As it stands, there are only 30-35 tables rented. A decision about cancellation will be made in a few days. --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:33:58 EST Subject: Re: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? In a message dated 98-01-22 08:01:12 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: << I got a call last night from one of the organizers of the March 8 Railroadiana Show at the Zembo Mosque in Harrisburg. The show may be cancelled. The jist of it is that the tax laws allow for individuals to have garage sales, yard sales, etc., once or twice a year, without having any sales tax or income tax burden. >> It's even worse in Ohio. There, if you sell your stuff anywhere but in your home, you have to pay sales tax. Even if you're not a dealer, just someone wanting to get rid of excess stuff. Even if you only do it once. Even at a non-profit show. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Engine numbers From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 08:45:47 -0500 On 1/22/98 1:23 AM, Doc Morrow (DocMorrow@aol.com) wrote: > Does anyone know where to find a cross-ref. engine numbers to classes of >engine. Steam and Diesel ? thanks.docmorrow@aol.com - ---- Steam engines are a much harder nut to crack. The PRR assigned numbers by region rather than by class and therefore steam engines in any one class appear to be numbered at random! This practice ended toward the end of the steam era and I believe that the J's and Q's had class number series rather than region number series. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:05:10 -0500 From: tmahon@cfnh.com (Tom Mahon) Subject: Re: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? Ah, the tax man. I think that was on the Beatle's White Album. Anyway, they are everywhere, went to a Greenberg show in Marlboro, MA (I live in NH) and ended up in the wake of the state revenue guy who merely handed out the filing forms to the vendors. The vendors then added the Taxachusett charge to the bill, some didn't add to price but were keeping track, I presume to pay to the tax to the state. When I went to another Greenberg Show In Pennsauken, NJ last August (Coincided with my daughters return to college in Philly), many vendors merely included it in their price. I think the vendors ought to get used to it. The tax guys are getting more sophisticated all the time. They're going to have to comply at some point. Tom Mahon ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 8:54:15 EST From: Subject: Re: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? Eric Sampl wrote: Pennsy Journal Vol 1 no 1 has a very detailed article titled, "The Mechanics of Motive power -- Comparison of the T1, GG1 & EMD E7". Its very scientific and I hate to say a bit over my head therefore I can't paraphrase it too well. None-the-less it contains many graphs illustrating the authors ideas. It talks about the forces encountered when starting a train, how they change when a grade is encountered and how they change again on level track. It gives examples of the number of cars each locomotive can pull when these different forces act upon them. There is discussion of horsepower, drawbar pull, friction from curves, etc, etc, etc. ------------- Original Text From: Bobspf , on 1/22/98 8:02 AM: 1. Railroads typically had tonnage ratings by locomotive for a given division or some other section of a line, based on the ruling grade. Helpers could affect this. Bob Reid published some of these in the old Pennsy Journal for PRR. 2. I recall reading in the publication of the Operations SIG of the NMRA that the early FTs were rated at 100 tons per axle up Cajon Pass (2.7% grade). That means a 4-unit diesel could haul about 32 loaded freight cars up the hill. 3. There have been some interesting articles, I believe in the Pennsy press, but it could have been the OPSIG publication, about the comparison between diesel and steam and electric in calculating these things. I will look it up when I get a chance, but one type can start a train it can't comfortably run and another can run a train it can't start, to oversimplify. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:03:37 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/20/98 >> subject: RR connecting with the PRR From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 14:14:34 CST .. Although no longer the case by 1940, a number of narrow gauge lines connected to the PRR: << How could you have omitted East Broad Top, which not only connected, but interchanged standard gauge cars by swapping out the trucks ! - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 08:48 22-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:03:36 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 01/20/98 >> Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale From: Rob Schoenberg Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:42:12 -0500 << I worked in the PRR Freight Sales Dept in the late 60's. When it was introduced, there was a contest in the employee newspaper to name this thing, and "Rail Whale" was the winner. I am amazed to know it still exists, where has it been sitting all these years ? - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 08:43 22-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:04:54 EST Subject: Re: Sunbury Branch OOPS, I see I goofed. The book I loaned to Jerry for scanning is the CT1000 *C*, not the E. Covers the Central Region. Sorry about the confusion. John In a message dated 98-01-22 08:45:40 EST, kkollar@PAMDT.ANG.AF.MIL writes: << From: Da72jmk , on 1/21/98 8:19 PM: To: , The 1945 CT1000 E, which I have loaned to Jerry to be scanned and included on Keystone Crossings, has the following information: >> ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 22 Jan 98 09:24:56 -0500 From: Doug Drew Subject: RE: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? --====57545051515550565048===1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-Ascii" I'm not sure about PRR, as I'm at work here without access to materials, but I know other railroads had charts in the back of employee timetables with tonnage ratings per class of engine (diesel and steam) for various sections of the lines covered by that timetable. Both the ruling grades and curvatures of the lines covered would be taken into account, as well as the drawbar horsepower of each locomotive or diesel unit. Up here in cold weather country, a second set of reduced tonnage ratings were also put forth based on the ambient temperature, to account for the effect of cold on solid-bearing journals. I assume the railroad's engineering departments were responsible for formulating these tables. Of course, they assume each locomotive was functioning perfectly. -- Doug Drew Sample wrote: >Hi Gang > >I am working on a project to calculate how many cars any one steam or >diesel engin could pull for given conditions. > >For an example lets talk about a RS-3: > >Drawbar HP=82% of rated Horse Power > >Tractive effort = rated HP x308/Speed > >Starting tractive effort = 25% of engine weight > >Drawbar foot pounds = drawbar Horse Power x 33,000.... > >In our example the engine had 1600 horse power and weighed 259,600 lbs. >Starting tractive effort would be 64,900 lbs. and continues tractive >effort was 52,500 Horse Power. > >A picture of this engine is shown on page 214 in the Pennsy Power II >book. > >My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how >many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big >part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and >hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure >grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division. > >Anybody, that has input on my calculations would be someone that I would >like to hear from. How about a little rag chewing on this one? > >Eric Sample >janeric@InfoCom.net > >Ps I have a form that is from Excel and list most of the figures for >the engines that I have in my collection. If anyone would like to see >it E-mail at the above address for a copy. > >73's > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====57545051515550565048===1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-Ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure about PRR, as I'm at work here without access to materials, but I know other railroads had charts in the back of employee timetables with tonnage ratings per class of engine (diesel and steam) for various sections of the lines covered by that timetable. Both the ruling grades and curvatures of the lines covered would be taken into account, as well as the drawbar horsepower of each locomotive or diesel unit. Up here in cold weather country, a second set of reduced tonnage ratings were also put forth based on the ambient temperature, to account for the effect of cold on solid-bearing journals.
I assume the railroad's engineering departments were responsible for formulating these tables. Of course, they assume each locomotive was functioning perfectly.
-- Doug Drew

Sample wrote:
>Hi Gang
>
>I am working on a project to calculate how many cars any one steam or
>diesel engin could pull for given conditions.
>
>For an example lets talk about a RS-3:
>
>Drawbar HP=82% of rated Horse Power
>
>Tractive effort = rated HP x308/Speed
>
>Starting tractive effort = 25% of engine weight
>
>Drawbar foot pounds = drawbar Horse Power x 33,000....
>
>In our example the engine had 1600 horse power and weighed 259,600 lbs.
>Starting tractive effort would be 64,900 lbs. and continues tractive
>effort was 52,500 Horse Power.
>
>A picture of this engine is shown on page 214 in the Pennsy Power II
>book.
>
>My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how
>many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big
>part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and
>hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure
>grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division.
>
>Anybody, that has input on my calculations would be someone that I would
>like to hear from. How about a little rag chewing on this one?
>
>Eric Sample
>janeric@InfoCom.net
>
>Ps I have a form that is from Excel and list most of the figures for
>the engines that I have in my collection. If anyone would like to see
>it E-mail at the above address for a copy.
>
>73's
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to
>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --====57545051515550565048===1-- ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Richard F. Makse" Subject: Re: Re: Sunbury Branch Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:52:53 -0500 Kris Kollar wrote: >Since the PRR was listed as having branches to the coal breakers in this >area does that neccessarily mean that it was the major mover of coal out of >those coal mines. I know that the CNJ was a primary mover of anthracite >coal in this region but was hoping that the PRR hauled most of the traffic >in and out. I can picture may future layout with long strings of PRR >hoppers both filled and empty moving in and out of the colliery. The CNJ went into the same vein parallel to the PRR's Glen Lyon Branch. The two major mines served by the PRR were the Glen Lyon Colliery at Glen Lyon and Susquehana #7 at Nanticoke. Both of these mines were operated by M.A. Hanna Company and judging by the fact that M.A. Hanna's corporate offices were in Broad Street Station, one might assume that the Lyon's share of the business went to the 'house' account. I do believe, however, that the CNJ was serving the same mines. Dick Made Complete Richard F. Makse maxrail@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:58:46 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: PRR Steam Assignment Question >What were the typical assignments for L1 2-8-2s Built as the freight version of the K4 Pacific - the same boiler and many of the same parts. Replaced in mainline drag service by the I1. Some through freight Some passenger service Locals Helpers >I1 2-10-0s The ultimate DRAG locomotive!- It has been said of the PRR that they just added I1s to a train until it started to move! Through drag freight Helpers >M1 4-8-2s? Built as a dual service locomotive, designed to get passenger trains through the mountains, and move freight quickly. More of a "high stepper" than the I1. Passenger Through fast freight Helpers On the PRR, interchangability was a key concept. Many exceptions can be found to "standard assignments". Basically, the motive power foreman assigned the best locomotive available at the time. All three classes remained in active service from introduction through the end of steam in more or less the same capacities, with the exception of being downgraded from mainline trains late in the 50s as more diesels came on line. One example of changing assignments is the Elmira Branch. Early in the 30's the L1 ruled the northern half, with I1s limitied to the southern half by bridge weight limits. Later, when the bridges were strengthened, the I1 was the dominant motive power (2 on the front, 2 on the back of 100 cars of coal northbound). Finally, the M1 made an appearance in the 50s when it was displaced from other assigments. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR Ore Cars Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:25:31 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell On 21 Jan, Stephen Bartlett wrote: > [ ... ] lots of the classic design > ore cars in Sunnyside yard, lettered LIRR (Long Island), in the 4000 > series. Looked like they were in MW or track service. Yes, LIRR uses them as ballast cars. Dennis ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:22:49 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: Color in B&W > Not necessarily that hard to distinguish colors in the olde days of > panchromatic B&W film: some reference graytones from various reds can be > found---e.g. > "The Georgian Locomotive" (bibliographic reference difficult as I'm at the > Chicago end > of my commute from my library in Philadelphia)---a shot of a Frisco loco in a > shade of red; in B&W, loco obviously not black or Great Northern green---a B&W > shot of one of the K4s's in T/R would show the obviously difference from > DGLE...follow-on thought is that my eyes grew up with shotting and developing > Tri-X, and maybe I just "see" the colors in the pictures. Bruce, The problem here is that some colors reporduce as the same shade of grey. I would venture a guess that Tucsan Red would come across as the same grey value as a Brunswick Green (a.k.a. DGLE) especially if it was at all weathered. Some colors do give a different value...in the '30's, SP painted many of their passenger assigned locomotives with a light green boiler jacket (including a couple of cab forwards!!!). While restoring the 2472 (a SP P-8 4-6-2) the guys from the Golden Gate Railroad Museum found a patch of the green paint on the boiler jacket behind the air pump. The color is similar to Celeste or "Bianchi Green" (somewhat lighter than teal). The value difference is readilly apparent in a B&W shot. > Sorry for the ramble > folks: B&W is other than stark > contrast prints of winter scenes...maybe Railfan should give first place to a > B&W image for the cover contest, it might end the Kodak vs. Fuji debates. Out here in the wild and wooly west, the Copper Basin Railroad (ex-SP Hayden Branch) once painted their locomotives in a light grey with light green lettering. It didn't have a value difference in B&W...hell, it didn't show a difference in color!!! They have since changed their paint scheme. Bill Daniels ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 11:33:31 CST Subject: This and that... Hi, everyone, I had two questions, having (I admit it) just received two of the PRR Pullmans from Spectrum: 1) in 1950, were there still Pullmans running on the PRR that were lettered "PULLMAN" not just over the doors but on the main letterboard? Were they Pullman Green or the later two-tone gray? 2) what's the latest on Rockville Bridge? Is it fully repaired? Are any other parts in need of work? PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 11:46:39 CST Subject: Maps of trackage Hi, everyone, RE: Would detailed maps exist that would trace out these routes? Could maps show the sidings and physical track locations? I have USGS maps from 1954 were I can trace the lines as they proceed through Nanticoke and onto Glen Lyon but their detail is limited because of the scale. Since the PRR was listed as having branches to the coal breakers in this area does that neccessarily mean that it was the major mover of coal out of those coal mines. I know that the CNJ was a primary mover of anthracite coal in this region but was hoping that the PRR hauled most of the traffic in and out. I can picture may future layout with long strings of PRR hoppers both filled and empty moving in and out of the colliery. My suggestion - either the Sanborn Insurance Co. maps, as mentioned in an earlier posting, or (harder to get) the ICC Valuation maps, which, if you can get them, are incredibly accurate. The Val maps are best accessed at the Nat. ARchives Branch in College Park, MD. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCW ORR Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:12:39 EST Subject: Re: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? In a message dated 98-01-21 22:18:27 EST, janeric@infocom.net writes: << My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division. >> Eric: First I would be interested in a copy of the Excel form. Most railroads calculated the total train tons which a loco could handle rather than be concerned about the number of cars. Thus a train of empty cars only needed to be concerned with the lt wt. of the cars. Loaded cars counted the total weight. By adding the weight of each car you can arrive at the weight of the train. But life is not so simple that we can take the train weight and the sustainable power of the engine and simply divide the train weight by engine capability. There are those nasty forces exerted upon a train by curves and grades. You also need to consider the average speed you want to achieve. Most locomotives have their maximum sustainable pulling power at relatively low speed. This won't due for a train of perishables. Anyway the bottom line is the engineering departments of most railroads calculated the amount of sustainable pulling power needed to achieve a given average speed over a given section of the road and keeping in mind the economics of moving the train. Thus a section or division may have an overall rating for moving a passenger train but have helper districts where the grades are too steep to maintain the rate of pull. Helper districts eliminate the wasting of locomotive power in areas where it is not needed. To model the real world is not feasible. For example your lone RS-3 could pull 30-50 cars. Are you going to run 30-50 model cars behind one RS-3. Years ago during ancient times there was an article in MR or RMC about this topic. The conclusion was evaluate your layout decide what looks good using the SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) method decide how many cars you want to pull for every 250-500 hp (your choice) then assign your locomotives according to the hp demand. Not an accurate method but functional. Rich Orr ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:41:04 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Baldwins Someone once told me that there were a few E7's or E8's painted DGLE. Can anyone confirm or deny? Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:38:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Engine numbers From: locoshop@juno.com (Jeremy C Helms) Hello to all, I have a copy of "Keystone Steam and Electric" by William D. Edson. It is a good book on the numbers for steam engines. It has build dates and renumbered dates for each class of locomotive used after 1906. I picked it up at a local hobby shop in Omaha Nebraska of all places. It has an overview of each number, numerically ordered and what classes held that specific number. That is in section one and there is a listing by locomotive class that contains the above mentioned Build date, renumbering, and disposition dates. These come from PRR files and not all a exact. If he was uncertain on a certain date he put the item in parenthesis with a ? beside it. Jeremy Helms ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WBKosin Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:56:17 EST Subject: Re: Sunbury Branch Greetings, While I have been reading from this group for a few months now,up until this time I have not had any thing to offer. However, let me tell you what little I know about this branch of the PRR. The Glen Lyon branch came off the main at Honey Pot which is about a half mile or so from where the station stood in Nanticoke. It apparently split a little further down the line with a branch going to Sheatown and ended in Alden with a connection with the Jersey Central's branch linto Lee via Wanamie. The other branch continued into Glen Lyon and to the coal breaker there. Since my grandparents lived in Glen Lyon we visited there almost every week.Also since I grew up about a mile from the PRR's Buttonwood Yard I would sneak down there every chance I would get. I would write down the engine numbers and imagine my surprise when I saw the same engines down in Glen Lyon. I then realized how this operation ran. The engines were serviced in Buttonwood and I would assume ran as a local to Glen Lyon.However no hoppers either empty or full made it to Buttonwood. There was a small yard where the branch joined the main at Honey Pot. I don't know how many tracks there were but I can remember as a child travelling down Rt. 11 and seeing rows of both empty and full hoppers. I walked this line a couple of years aand although the track is gone. the area has been untouched and the remains of a few buildings are still there. As for power, the locomotives that I mentioned earlier were GP-9's. This was in the mid to late 60's and there were GP-9'S, 9B's, GP-30's, and GP-35's. There was really no need to run six axle power on this line because it was virtually level from Harrisburgh and Enola into Buttonwood. On a related note, the line is presently being upgraded by bth CPRailway and NS in anticipation of the merger. While there are no trains using it right now the CP will run in the area of four to six trains a day and NS under a haulage agreement will run possibly six or more trains a day between Harrisburgh and Albany N.Y. I can help with anything else let me know. David R. Kosin WBKosin@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:51:48 EST Subject: Re: Engine numbers Steam locomotive numbering originally showed assigments to subsidiary lines - one good "rule of thumb" for locomotives and cars built before 1920 is that locomotives numbered 5,000 and cars 500,000 and above were for "lines west" The practice ended with "consolidation" in the 1920's Actually the final batches of the K-4 and I-1 and all the M-1s were "block numbered" - possibly others - don't have my reference with me The definitive reference is William D Edson's "Pennsy Steam & Electric" by Wayner Publications ( Soft cover - out of print) The book lists all Pennsy Steam and Electric Locos by 1) Road number 2) by class and 3) by builder number - about 140 pages of single spaced typing - would be something great to post but is still copyrighted and would require massive amount of work Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:50:04 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: Engine numbers Doc Morrow wrote: > > Does anyone know where to find a cross-ref. engine numbers to classes of > engine. Steam and Diesel ? thanks.docmorrow@aol.com > Doc, Railroad Magazine ran rosters back in the late 1940's, in numerical order showing classes; and by classes, giving numbers. This covered steam and electric to that date. There was a later roster of electrics in Railroad Magazine of October, 1962. I have copies and could look up anything for you that is in those articles. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Yard Design Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:06:14 EST The Pitcairn Yard maps are up on my site, thanks to John Cooper's editing. These are a nice study in yard design for yard with the mainline off to one side. Point your browser to http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Maps/itlk_alto_pgh_branch.html While I'm at it, the Pittsburgh Division main line maps are done, too, with the final addition of RG tower. After finishing the Monongahela Div./Branch will be the New York Division and PRSL. "EJ", a prr-talk member, will be editing the PRSL maps. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:52:39 EST Subject: Re: Tuscan Red Steamers (was Re: Diesel Paint & Stripes) Have heard the same discussion re a "Bronze" streamlined K-4 - a newspaper account describes the engine as "Bronze Gold" but there is no other mention of the color and B & W photos are inconclusive - could have just been reporter's eloquence Dick Ross ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:31:48 EST Subject: Re: This and that... Geprge Pierson questioned whether any Pullmans ran on Pennsy with Pullman on letterboard. Page 52 of PRRT&HS Passenger Car Painting and Lettering has a photo of Elm Fields in tuscan with Pullman letterboard in January, 1964. A few Pullman -owned cars were kept in tuscan red after 1948, quoting the book. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:28:55 EST Subject: Re: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? Pennsy Journal Vol. 1. No. 3 had Pittsburgh Region (later Central Region) tonnage ratings dated September 1, 1959 from the Office of Electrical Engineer, Phildadelphia. These were separate items not included in employee timetables. The latter had speed restrictions by locomotive class by section of the railroad. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: This and that... From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 17:47:08 -0500 George, 1950 would be just two year after the Pullman Co was broken up by the Justice Dept. (A monopoly like that was destined to dominate travel forever if they did not act!) So iute quite reasonable that many of the sleeping cars acquired by the PRR still bore Pullman paint schemes. These would most likely be solid tuscan with PULLMAN on the letterboards or even perhaps some FOM cars. But, of course, none of them would be 10s-1dr-2br cars. There were only 28 of them ever built, and the PRR never had any. There was a Pullman pool car in that plan however (SCENIC GLADE) and it would propbably be either green or two-tone gray. I have one Spectrum Pullman and have lettered edit SOUTHERN. The Southern had three such cars and one of them ran in through service on the Birmingham Special from Knoxville to NY. regards Andy Miller Of course after all my pontificating, I havn't answered your question ;-) I don't know if SCENIC GLADE was gray or green in 1950! - ------- Hi, everyone, I had two questions, having (I admit it) just received two of the PRR Pullmans from Spectrum: 1) in 1950, were there still Pullmans running on the PRR that were lettered "PULLMAN" not just over the doors but on the main letterboard? Were they Pullman Green or the later two-tone gray? 2) what's the latest on Rockville Bridge? Is it fully repaired? Are any other parts in need of work? PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doc Morrow Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:07:48 EST Subject: Re; thanks. To all who answer my question about numbers. THANKS, docmorrow ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: This and that... Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:07:07 -0800 > 2) what's the latest on Rockville Bridge? Is it fully repaired? Are any > other parts in need of work? > > I was just over the rockville bridge last weekend looking out the back window. It is not fully repaired. Track 1, (southern most track) is not in place. Just west of the collapse, tk1 joins tk2 at what appears to be a temporary switch. The switch is protected in the eastbound direction by what looked to be two temporary color light dwarf signals. I didn't happen to notice what protected westward movement - probably the same. The collapse is about a switchlength west of the aluminum cantilever signal bridge conrail installed on the bridge for eastbound traffic. The signals for track1 and track2 have white bags on them, having been temporarily replaced by the dwarfs. Concerning the collapse itself, it looked like there was a steel plate or beam running parallel to the track at the edge of the brigde. The surface of this steel looked to be about one rock-height down from the orignal height of the rock under the handrailing. About one rock-height was missing at the edge for maybe 30ft, and the roadbed was missing surronding this area. Area affected was maybe a half-track width back from the edge. John ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Liberty" Subject: Re: Sharks Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:51:28 -0500 Hello, The 'Shark' project is progressing nicely ! I should have some details for all of you soon. Also, again I wish to say 'thank you' for supporting this project with info and feedback. I was wondering if anyone could run a copy of the plans / drawings in RMC 07-68 issue. I wish to compare these to what we have, as you can never have too much reference material !!! I will reimburse any shipping and copying expenses. Thanks ! Joe Zappa, Liberty Model Productions BTW- Jerry, do you still have a 'naked' Model Power Shark ? I have an 'A' unit shell if you still need one. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:01:14 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: Freight & Psgr Car Trucks Greetings, Does anyone on the list know if there was ever published a definitive class listing, along with photos, of the various trucks used on PRR freight and passenger rolling stock? I have a copy of the article on PRR freight trucks in the June 1993 Model Railroading mag. by Martin Lofton, but it doesn't cover all of them. Any help would be appreciated. TIA Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:49:25 -0500 From: "Larry P. Morgan" Subject: Re: In Defence of Greenberg Shows Harry W. Fitch IV wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > There has been some talk of disappointment with the Greenberg shows. > If > your disappointment comes from an expectation that was not fulfilled, > then > I understand your disappointment. If your expectation was different > from > the description that Greenberg Shows uses to describe their own events > I > invite you to look at the description again. > > Greenberg shows do NOT tout themselves as 100 percent scale train > shows! > They state right up front that you ARE going to see Doll Houses, > Lionel, > Flyer, Ives, MTH, Marx, LGB and a mixture of everything under the sun > when > it comes to trains. > > If you do not want to see these things, or you are wanting to go to a > Scale > Only meet, then choose another show! Since I know an employee of > Greenberg > Shows, which has it's roots in the toy train publication business, I > do not > think that you are going to see Greenberg Shows "fixed" by Kalmbach. > They > are not broken! They are doing exactly what they have been doing for > years. Since I live in Maryland I have attended many Scale Shows at > Timonioum MD and many Greenberg shows. I know what will be at each > and set > my expectations as such. When I want a replacement part for my Lionel > collection, I "run right to Greenbergs", it's a one stop shop. If I > want > to purchase NWSL gear sets, Brass, any one of millions of HO items, I > go to > the "Scale Show". While I am there I do not bemoan the small amount > of toy > trains available. Right On Harry! I go to a lot of shows that are 95% scale and 5% toy train. Of course, as a Hi-Railer, I rarely go a second time. -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS/PRRT&HS ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:20:23 EST Subject: Re: March 8 Harrisburg Show -- Cancelled? In a message dated 98-01-22 08:01:17 EST, jerry@dsop.com writes: > With very "public" venues such as the Zembo Mosque, >the tax folks now what show is coming and when At the last New Jersey show I attended, the state revenue folks were walking around, dressed in "Revenue Department" T-shirts, checking to see if dealers were collecting the tax. Several packed up and left on the spot. Rich Copeland ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:32:41 -0500 Subject: Fowarded copy: LGB #2219S in Pennsy Tuscan Red: Travesty or From: carl-vic-vogel@juno.com (Carl K Vogel) PRR Fans: Below is what I sent to the LGB Chat and Big Trains Chat groups. Many thanks to Rich ORR, and the many other contributors whose info I used in this posting. I did mention this forum to those readers, in case there are others who like PRR and G-scale. It is already getting some reaction from the G-scale rivet counters. I note that PRR did have some type of 2-6-0 mogul running somewhere. Sure could use some details to forward to the readers. Also, is it possible that some of the moguls were narrow gauge and some at the usual gauge? If so, I would appreciate that info, too. Well, here it is........... Subject: LGB #2219S in Pennsy Tuscan Red: Travesty or Truth? Yes, Readers, I know....a bit melodramatic on the subject title. Anyway, with the help of people on the PRR chat line, I've been able to do find out some information about our g-scale versions of Pennsy equipment. There is a point to this message...if one wants to skip to the end. There's not many of you out there that actually use the LGB 2219S PRR tuscan red mogul on your layouts. I know "Casey" and I have shared good ideas and assistance. He's doing a wonderful layout of the Strasburg, PA railroad. Funny though, when you look at the 1996 winners of the LGB Photography contest, in the "LGB Telegram", this color engine always seems to pop up in the winner's column. This red mogul was rejected by the purists and left to languish on the shelves for several reasons: #1) Pennsy did not have narrow gauge; #2) *Pennsy engines were painted a very dark Brunswick green (in reality, black) plus black regardless of whether they were used on Passenger or freight service (the front of the boiler was painted with a combination of light oil and paint to prevent rusting, since paint alone burned off); #3) *Pennsy did not have moguls; #4) *Pennsy did not have scenic runs through the Rockies or run tourist trains over huge, wooden tressle bridges named after Eastern towns. Recently, Vance Bass was able to help find the truth about #1. Yes, they did have narrow gauge in Pennsylvania...and more than just 1 line! Now....comes the truth about #2)....THEY DID RUN HAVE TUSCAN RED STEAM ENGINES! In spite of all the publicity photos of them in the green-black....THEY DID EXIST! Am I excited? NOT AT ALL! Rich Orr, PRR expert, let it out of the bag the other night, and that chat line lit up like ours does when people discuss "couplers" and "scale". Was it their moguls? No. But, it was 3 of their mighty K4's that were painted red in the 1930's. This was not santioned by the Philadelphia office, and eventually they were repainted. But, the areas that were traditionally green-black (called DGLE) were tuscan along with the frame, cylinders, pilot and wheel spokes. AND NOW....THE SECOND HORROR! They also made a diesel switcher in tuscan red! Baldwin V0-1000, #5916, was painted tuscan red instead of the green-black and was delivered to New York's Sunnyside yards. After moving tuscan red passenger cars around for awhile, it was transferred to the "wilds of New Jersey", working out of Camden's Pavonia yard until its retirement (5 miles from where I sit writing this). Please understand that their passenger diesels, F7's, FA'a, Baldwin Shark noses, etc. were painted tuscan red! (Aristo made FA's in 2 different tuscan red striping schemes). There are several points to this message: #1) To start a "run" on the remaining #2219S engines still for sale? No, but just to give these engines a little more legitimacy in the LGB Pecking Order...namely its aftermarket value. There are still a few for sale. #2) Yes, I am sending a message to David Buffington and LGB....BRING OUT A DIESEL F7 (or other engine) IN TUSCAN RED TO MATCH THE WONDERFUL CARS WE ALREADY HAVE. #3) And also, LGB, BRING OUT A HOPPER CAR IN PENNSY TUSCAN RED. #4) To encourage other manufacturers to continue making items in tuscan red (Aristo, Bachmann, Hartland, etc.)? Sure...why not!! If anyone is interested, I will do the research about what moguls that the PRR owned. If not, I will shut up about Pennsy for awhile. Thanks for listening. Carl K. Vogel Recently Reinstated Chief Engineer Taunton and Tuckerton Railroad ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:55:17 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: Tuscan Baldwins PRRMAN wrote: > > Someone once told me that there were a few E7's or E8's > painted DGLE. Can anyone confirm or deny? > > Rich Copeland > All E7's were delivered in DGLE. Tuscan started in Aug. '52. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:14:29 -0500 From: "Dave 'Fresh' Freshwater" Subject: PRR 7000 Photos Check out the RailPace web site Hot Photos section for pictures of the newly restored GP9 #7000, the first PRR GP9. http://www.railpace.com/hotnews/hotphotos.htm Dave Freshwater North Potomac, MD ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Next NC Chapter Meeting Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 08:32:08 -0400 From: Jerry_Britton I realize this is short notice but... The next meeting of the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS is on Sunday, Feb. 8 at the Yorktown Hotel in York, PA. Free parking. The meeting is free and is open to the public; you do not have to be a member or a member of the PRRT&HS to participate. Come one, come all. If you are at all near York, this is a chance to get involved with other who share the PRR interest. I may not make it, but if I do, hope to see some of you there! BTW: The "Liberty Limited Dinner Trains" out of New Freedom are now going north into York, just a block shy of the station. The city is not yet allowing them to cross George Street, but they are once again doing street running on Persing Avenue!!! --------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@dsop.com Visit "Keystone Crossings" at http://prr.dsop.com Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harmantas, Andrew G." Subject: RE: Tuscan Baldwins Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:49:57 -0500 > Someone once told me that there were a few E7's or E8's > painted DGLE. Can anyone confirm or deny? _______________ Confirm. First order of E-8's, and, if I'm not mistaken, all E-7's were delivered in DGLE. Red began appearing in repaints in 19 something (54?), and all subsequent E-8 orders were painted red at EMD. If you have some of the all color Pennsy books, you will see evidence to confirm the issue. Later, Andrew Harmantas, waiting for the trains at C&O Milepost FM Zero. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:58:03 EST Subject: PRR 10-1-2 (was This and That) I'm puzzled. I haven't studied Spectrum car and I unfortunately have had to store my Pullman plans due to apartment living with new wife. However, statement has been made that Pennsy had no 10-1-2's. Pennsy Journal Vol 1 No. 2 lists PRR Pullmans by type and name. A total of 29, 13 in Lake series, are listed. The list also includes two College cars (10-2-1), one 10-1-1, and the 13 Villa series 10-3's. The Southland (Train 201) ran 10-2's from Chicago to Florida, but I suspect these were Pullman green or in colors of the cooperating railroads. What is the Spectrum car? Regards, Bob Zoeller. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 08:52:36 -0500 Dave, I was unaware that the Bethlehem B60s were no longer available. I will be at the Springfield MA show next weekend. Last year Bethlehem was there and I had a long freindly talk with the owner. If he reappears this year. I will ask him about B60's. I believe the B62 is the Scenery car with the end doors. I know he was working on those and the horse express cars with the same door. I will keep my eyes open for dealers with the B60 and let you know. regards Andy Miller - --------- Dear Mr. Miller: First off, thanks for the wealth of information on Pennsy passenger cars. I've only been in this hobby a few years and good information such as you provided in the "PRR Pages" are really helpful for someone planning a "faithful" Pennsylvania layout. I have one question, if you have time to answer. The B 60 Baggage car by Bethlemhem Car Works seems to be no longer available. I've tried to reach them by phone and all I got out of that was a lady saying she thought they sold it to another manufacturer. I sent a stamped return envelope asking if they could direct me to who would be producing them now or if they had any at all remaining but never heard a response. Do you know of anyplace I could purchase at least one or two, (I can't imagine my layout without at least one of these "signature" cars!), or have you heard if another company is or will be producing this kit. (Is the B62 Brass Kit listed close?) Thank you for your time. Best regards, Dave Schrank airalex@fuse.net ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:08:15 EST Subject: Re: Freight & Psgr Car Trucks In a message dated 98-01-23 07:39:41 EST, Iron Horse writes: << Does anyone on the list know if there was ever published a definitive class listing, along with photos, of the various trucks used on PRR freight and passenger rolling stock? >> Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Euipment Plan and Photo Book (1984), ,N.J. International, Inc; 77 W. Nicholai St., Hicksville, N.Y. 11801, has 11 pages at the back devoted to Passenger truck classification and some photos. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: Freight & Psgr Car Trucks Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 11:46:53 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg I purchased somewhere a PRR passenger equiptment roster book reprint which included info about what trucks were under which PRR passenger cars. Of course I'm at work and it's at home... If you want I can get you the info on it. As for freight cars, I've started to compile some info about freight trucks for my PRR freight cars pages. I'd like to include scans of photos of each class of truck also... So far I have photos of a few types, I'll try to add them soon. Does anyone have good truck shots that they can scan and send me for my pages?! Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the 'ding in question. What exactly does it cover?! Rob -------------------------------------------- http://www.internexus.net/~robs/PRR/freight Greetings, Does anyone on the list know if there was ever published a definitive class listing, along with photos, of the various trucks used on PRR freight and passenger rolling stock? I have a copy of the article on PRR freight trucks in the June 1993 Model Railroading mag. by Martin Lofton, but it doesn't cover all of them. Any help would be appreciated. TIA Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:02:58 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: How Many Cars Could a Engine Pull??? >In a message dated 98-01-21 22:18:27 EST, janeric@infocom.net writes: > ><< My question is, how in the world would an engineer know before hand how > many cars his engine could pull? Wouldn't car weight per car play a big > part in this calculation? Maybe they just didn't worry about it and > hooked on to as many cars as would not stall the engine. I am sure > grade had a lot to do with it also on a certain division. Several excellent responses have covered the pulling side of the equation and I would only offer the additional advice to set model limits for diesels on car axles per drive axle (remembering for instance the the Alco PA had 4, not 6 drive axles) and car axles per locomotive for steamers (an I1 should have a higher loading than an L1 by about 20-30% for example). You should also keep in mind that empties weight less. There are excellent shots in PRR steam and Electric years of WW II era trains of long blocks of empty tank cars headed west, accompanied by several cabins. This was required to balance the shorter trains of loads headed east. However, it is CRITICAL to remember that many restrictions placed on cars/locomotive had to do with braking, not pulling! Many locomotives could/can pull more than they can stop (on a grade). Dynamic braking has only improved the tonnage which can be handled, but it has not eliminated the problem. I attended an outstanding clinic on this subject at the NMRA national in Madison this summer. You've all seen the photos of eastbounds at Horseshoe, with a cloud of brake smoke. Well, those wheels are getting red to white hot, and a 15 minute stop to cool the wheels will be mandated by the rules of operation. This is an aspect of operations seldom modeled, but of critical importance to the real railroads. Happy RAils Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** Announcing PRRMO The PRR Modular Modeling Society! http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRRMO.html _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 11:57:04 -0500 From: Rob Schoenberg Dave and all, I also didn't know that the B60's were gone. (I hope not I could use another one...) If I'm not mistaken, the B62's are Reading cars that the PRR either leased or bought not the end door cars. (I sure wish someone would do the end door cars though!) I checked the JMC web page and they don't have any, neither does Railroad Ave. (Walthers doesn't carry BCW) If I see any I'll also let you know.... Rob Dave, I was unaware that the Bethlehem B60s were no longer available. I will be at the Springfield MA show next weekend. Last year Bethlehem was there and I had a long freindly talk with the owner. If he reappears this year. I will ask him about B60's. I believe the B62 is the Scenery car with the end doors. I know he was working on those and the horse express cars with the same door. I will keep my eyes open for dealers with the B60 and let you know. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: PRR 10-1-2 (was This and That) From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 12:59:18 -0500 Bob, The Bachmann car is a 10sec-1dr-2DOUBLE BEDROOM car. The common LAKE series cars were 10sec-1dr-2comp cars. I posted a note concerning all 28 of these cars. None were PRR. I can send the post to you if you wish but I don't want to flood the bandwidth by sending to everyone again. regards Andy Miller I'm puzzled. I haven't studied Spectrum car and I unfortunately have had to store my Pullman plans due to apartment living with new wife. However, statement has been made that Pennsy had no 10-1-2's. Pennsy Journal Vol 1 No. 2 lists PRR Pullmans by type and name. A total of 29, 13 in Lake series, are listed. The list also includes two College cars (10-2-1), one 10-1-1, and the 13 Villa series 10-3's. The Southland (Train 201) ran 10-2's from Chicago to Florida, but I suspect these were Pullman green or in colors of the cooperating railroads. What is the Spectrum car? Regards, Bob Zoeller. - ------------------------------------------------------------ For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 13:01:40 -0500 Rob, Bethlehem does intend to do the horse express and scenery cars. When I talked with him at last years Springfield show he showed me the end door castings he had produced. It was the rest of the car which was holding up progress. regards Andy Miller - ------- Dave and all, I also didn't know that the B60's were gone. (I hope not I could use another one...) If I'm not mistaken, the B62's are Reading cars that the PRR either leased or bought not the end door cars. (I sure wish someone would do the end door cars though!) I checked the JMC web page and they don't have any, neither does Railroad Ave. (Walthers doesn't carry BCW) If I see any I'll also let you know.... Rob Dave, I was unaware that the Bethlehem B60s were no longer available. I will be at the Springfield MA show next weekend. Last year Bethlehem was there and I had a long freindly talk with the owner. If he reappears this year. I will ask him about B60's. I believe the B62 is the Scenery car with the end doors. I know he was working on those and the horse express cars with the same door. I will keep my eyes open for dealers with the B60 and let you know. regards Andy Miller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:14:42 EST Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars The B-62 cars were ex Reading that the PRR purchased in the sixties. The Bethlehem Car Works B-60 is out of current production . The molds has been offered for sale but as of this time have not been so. The owner is one of my operating crew the next time I see him I'll ask what the status of the car is. Ken McCorry ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:03:24 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: G5s Roster Greetings, Someone asked about steam engine numbers, here is a roster of G5s 4-6-0. That's all for now......... Roster of G5s All built at Altoona, Pa. Shop Engine Number Date Number 3769 Jun-23 987 3786 Jul-23 1648 3787 Jul-23 1689 3788 Aug-23 1592 3789 Aug-23 1594 3790 Aug-23 1811 3791 Aug-23 1844 3792 Aug-23 2316 3793 Aug-23 2442 3794 Aug-23 2754 3795 Aug-23 2811 3796 Aug-23 2830 3797 Aug-23 2904 3798 Aug-23 2920 3799 Sep-23 3064 3800 Sep-23 3108 3801 Sep-23 3109 3802 Sep-23 3117 3803 Sep-23 3571 3804 Sep-23 3576 3805 Sep-23 3802 3806 Sep-23 3832 3807 Sep-23 459 3809 Sep-23 472 3809 Sep-23 508 3810 Sep-23 698 3811 Oct-23 816 3812 Oct-23 833 3813 Oct-23 1073 3814 Oct-23 1080 3815 Oct-23 1112 3816 Oct-23 1567 3817 Oct-23 1589 3818 Oct-23 1960 3820 Oct-23 1961 3821 Oct-23 1962 3822 Oct-23 1963 3823 Oct-23 1964 3824 Oct-23 1965 3825 Oct-23 1966 3851 Jan-24 LI 20 3853 Jan-24 LI 21 3854 Jan-24 LI 22 3855 Feb-24 LI 23 3925 Aug-24 5700 3926 Aug-24 5701 3927 Aug-24 5702 3928 Aug-24 5703 3929 Aug-24 5704 3930 Aug-24 5705 3931 Aug-24 5706 3932 Aug-24 5707 3933 Aug-24 5708 3934 Aug-24 5709 3935 Aug-24 5710 3936 Aug-24 5711 3937 Aug-24 5712 3938 Sep-24 5713 3939 Sep-24 5714 3940 Sep-24 5715 3941 Sep-24 5716 3942 Sep-24 5717 3943 Sep-24 5718 3944 Sep-24 5719 3945 Sep-24 5720 3946 Sep-24 5721 3947 Sep-24 5722 3948 Sep-24 5723 3949 Oct-24 5724 3950 Oct-24 5725 3951 Oct-24 5728 3952 Oct-24 5727 3953 Oct-24 5728 3954 Oct-24 5729 3955 Oct-24 5730 3956 Oct-24 5731 3957 Oct-24 5732 3958 Oct-24 5733 3959 Oct-24 5734 3960 Oct-24 5735 3961 Nov-24 5736 3962 Nov-24 5737 3963 Nov-24 5738 3964 Nov-24 5739 3965 Nov-24 5740 3966 Nov-24 5741 3967 Dec-24 5742 3968 Dec-24 5743 3969 Dec-24 5744 3970 Dec-24 5745 3971 Dec-24 5746 3972 Jan-25 5747 3973 Jan-25 LI 24 3974 Jan-25 LI 25 3975 Jan-25 LI 26 3976 Jan-25 LI 27 3978 Jan-25 LI 28 3979 Jan-25 5748 3980 Feb-28 5749 4195 Sep-28 LI 29 4196 Sep-28 LI 30 4197 Sep-28 LI 31 4198 Sep-28 LI 32 4199 Sep-28 LI 33 4200 Sep-28 LI 34 4201 Sep-28 Li 35 4202 Oct-28 Lt 36 4203 Oct-28 LI 37 4204 Oct-28 LI 38 4207 May-29 LI 39 4208 May-29 LI 40 4209 May-29 LI 41 4210 May-22 LI 42 4211 May-29 LI 43 4212 May-29 LI 44 4213 May-29 Li 45 4214 Sep-29 LI 46 4215 Sep-29 Lr 47 4216 Aug-29 LI 48 4217 Aug-29 LI 49 4218 Nov-29 LI 50 Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:50:14 -0500 From: "s.a. mccall" Subject: lists-NYC Greetings, Is there a list for NYC fans. how to subscribe???? Sincerely, S.A. McCall HOSAM Franklin, Va. ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:33:47 EST Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars Don't know if he has any B60s left, but one dealer who carries Bethlehem Car Works kits is Des Plaines Hobbies in Des Plaines, Il. Maybe one of guys in Chicago can check. I only get there on occasion on my many trips to Chicago. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:39:47 EST Subject: Re: PRR 10-1-2 (was This and That) In a message dated 98-01-23 18:05:29 EST, Andy Miller writes : << The Bachmann car is a 10sec-1dr-2DOUBLE BEDROOM car. >> Thanks for the clarification Andy. Brenau College and Washington College were 10 section, 2 Double Bedroom, 1 Compartment cars. Close, but no cigar for Bachmann. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:45:05 EST Subject: Re: Freight & Psgr Car Trucks I neglected to mention that lightweight passenger car trucks are discussed at back of Official Pullman-Standard Vol. 4, PRR. Additional discussion of lightweight passenger trucks was included in some issues of Mainline Modeler in the mid to late 1980's. Sorry, in storage again, so can't give you the issue,but you could check the model rr mag index on the web, which web address again I don't have since server at work crashed with that "favorite place". Will get later. Bob Zoeller ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:10:00 EST Subject: Re: PRR B60 Bethlehem Car Works: Owner John R. Green 215.721.3006 office. He can answer directly any questions regarding his kits as well as pointing you in the direction of dealers who still may have B60s in stock. Additionally, he can say whether he'll be attending the Springfield, MA show. Following the release of his PRR K11 Livestock car this past fall, John indicated he was redoing the B60 doors in brass and reissuing the car again in the near future. As to the PRR B62B class baggage car. Correct identification shows 14 cars from the Reading Company, class BAu were purchased in 1964 and given PRR class B62B. A picture and number data for this car appear in the PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vol II, page 31 in the PRR Heavyweight Baggage Car section. Bethlehem Car works has this kit. Brad C. Bower Digital Image Works ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:36:03 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Composite side Ore cars Hello! I have some Microtrains composite side ore cars and I would like to verify if PPR ran such cars. If so, what colors were they? What was the lettering color? Any special symbols? Did they haul coal? Ballast? Thanks in advance, Roger Elliott ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:47:42 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: Re: B60 baggage cars Bobspf wrote: > > Don't know if he has any B60s left, but one dealer who carries Bethlehem Car > Works kits is Des Plaines Hobbies in Des Plaines, Il. Ron Sebastian, of Des Plaines Hobbies, is expected to have a table at the West Springfield, Mass., show on Jan 31 and Feb 1. Steve Bartlett ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:17:21 -0800 From: ironhorse@sprintmail.com Subject: PRR Freight & Psgr Car Trucks Thanks to those who replied with information. Seems there isn't yet a "single source" location, but for passenger cars trucks, the NJI Heavyweight Plan book is best. Freight trucks are an altogether different matter. There were quite a few types, but no in-depth coverage. Charlie Fox ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:18:28 -0800 From: Ron Smith Subject: PRR in Terre Haute, Ind. I am very Interested in Building a series of HO switching Modules set in the 1965-66 era. Being a NYC fan also and growing up in Oregon I also have fond Memories of the Milwaukee Road. From looking at Large Scale Maps and the Pennsy Interchange List, I think I may have found what I am looking for in Terre Haute, Indiana. I am starting from scratch on this one, so any help you can Provide on Opperations in the Area, Maps, Loco assignments, Interchange with other Roads, Photos, etc would be most Appereceated. A over view for now is all I need to see if I have found the right locale. Thank You, Ronald Smith "Jamais Arriere" ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paintloco Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:40:37 EST Subject: Erie to Emporium traffic A member of my operating group recently gace me a copy of Erie to Empoium passenger trains from this bulliten board dated 6/20/97. As I run a 1946 version of trains 580/581 as part of my operating session, I found it very enlightening. Is there any more info available for trains on that line including freight? Any thing you may have would be great. sincerly, Don Murphy, SPF ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:05:54 EST Subject: RE:Bethlehem Car Works Update on Bethlehem Car Works:John R. Greene sez his new web page is up:WWW.mria.org/companies/bethlehem.html, EMAIL jGreene@netcarrier.com. He will be attending the Springfield Show. He will release B60 kits by the end of February. Contact him directly. Cheers Brad C. Bower Digital Image Works ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark D Bej Subject: Re: Erie to Emporium traffic Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:20:06 EST > A member of my operating group recently gace me a copy of Erie to Empoium > passenger trains from this bulliten board dated 6/20/97. As I run a 1946 > version of trains 580/581 as part of my operating session, I found it very > enlightening. Is there any more info available for trains on that line > including freight? Any thing you may have would be great. > sincerly, Don Murphy, SPF Don, check out the freight train schedules on my web site by city name. Tell me which ones you want the full version of & I'll type them out. -- Mark ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: George.Pierson@trnty.edu (George Pierson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 18:57:34 CST Subject: New book Hi, gang, I just got a copy of Eric Hirsimaki's BLACK DIAMONDS, BLACK GOLD. Folks, go buy this book!!!! It's about the transition on the PRR from steam to diesel. I've just skimmed it a few times but the book has all the right stuff. The printing is excellent (all b&w, with a color dustjacket), with many PRR steam photos, excellent discussion of steam classes, practices, numbering, loco assignments, etc. In fact, half the book is devoted to steam, so that the reader can better understand the conditions that led up to dieselization. Most of the photos have not been published before. The dustjacket is an eye-popper -- on the front cover, a color painting of a T1 and new E7s at Harrisburg changing power, and on the rear, some color sketches developed by the EMD design team for possible use on PRR E units - some of these are really amazing and will get the juices flowing. After the disappointment with TRUIMPH I, it's also nice to see that the author has done his homework, and consulted with the established authorities on the PRR, and used the various historical collections responsibly. A couple of quick observations. He has a number of pictures of new E7's in DGLE with no Keystones on the sides, or, in the case of an A-B-A set, a Keystone only on the B unit. There is a nice discussion (with good roster photos) of steam on the Lines West. There are also some early shots of 20th century PRR steam with ROUND number plates. I always thought the Keystones were used in this century. I'm looking forward to really reading the book but wanted to pass the good word first. PRR forever! Sincerely, George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:58:49 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: Lehigh-Pennsylvania Express While perusing my "bible", a reprint of the January, 1930 OFFICIAL GUIDE, I discovered the "Lehigh-Pennsylvania Express". This train operated daily between Phillipsburg NJ, and Pittsburgh, via LV main to Penn Haven Jct, Hazelton, Mahonoy City, Shenandoah, to the PRR at Shenandoah Jct, Mt.Carmel, Shamokin, Sunbury, Williamsport, Lock Haven, then down the Bald Eagle Branch to Tyrone (with a pull-in/back-out stop at Bellefonte) and main line to Altoona and Pittsburgh. Schedule was 12:04 westbound and 12:40 eastbound. (Was switching more complex eastbound ? It would seem the heaviest grade would be westbound on the Hazleton Branch.) Consist: Through coaches and Parlor Car (Broiler Buffet), Parlor Car Pittsburgh-Wilkes Barre (to/from Sunbury Division trains), and Cafe-Coach Pittsburgh-Sunbury. (BTW, there was also a through Pittsburg-Wilkes Barre sleeper via Harrisburg) I would be curious to know where the LV/PRR motive power switch took place. The actual junction appears to be Shenandoah Jct, which makes either Sunbury (PRR) or Shenandoah (LV) likely. How much of this route trackage is still in existence ? How long did this train continue to operate ? Anyone have any further comments ? - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 17:53 24-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:58:46 -0500 From: Kent Loudon Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale >> Subject: Re: PRR Rail Whale From: Rob Schoenberg Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:42:12 -0500 << I worked in the PRR Freight Sales Dept in the late 60's. When it was introduced, there was a contest in the employee newspaper to name this thing, and "Rail Whale" was the winner. I am amazed to know it still exists, where has it been sitting all these years ? - Kent Loudon, Somerville, NJ 16:30 24-Jan-98 via OzWin 2.14 ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:35:24 EST Subject: PRR 2-6-2 Prairie? (Mantua) Just got some info on the new Mantua Prairie and from the picture it appears to have been built after 1900. Mantua says that the Prairie Class was designed by the Illinois Central in 1902, however the Guide to North American Steam Locomotives shows no 2-6-2s built in this century by either IC or PRR. The PRR model does not have a Belpaire Firebox, the smokebox appears to be FEP, cab roof and cistern top is PRR red, the remainder may be painted DGLE when compared to NYC Prairie painted black on the same page. Is this a Mantua "Pipe Dream" or could this have any basis in fact? Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:40:36 EST Subject: Bachman and IHC PRR Pass Cars There is quiet a bit of difference in the Tuscan paint from these to sources, which is correct? or are both wrong or right depending on the date of the prototype? Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Jim Hudson" Subject: Round vs Keystone # plates (was Re: New book) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:46:13 -0000 George, most switchers, D16sb, H9s, H10s, L1s, and I1s had circle number plates. In "Pennsy Steam: A to T" there are even a couple of K4s with circular plates.... I'm not sure about this, but I think most E6s, G5s, K4s and everything after the M1s got keystone plates. Can anyone out there clarify this? Was the original idea to put keystones on just the passenger locomotives? Jim wjhudson@erols.com -----Original Message----- From: George Pierson To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 11:49 PM Subject: New book >Hi, gang, > >I just got a copy of Eric Hirsimaki's BLACK DIAMONDS, BLACK GOLD. Folks, >go buy this book!!!! It's about the transition on the PRR from steam >to diesel. I've just skimmed it a few times but the book has all the right >stuff. The printing is excellent (all b&w, with a color dustjacket), with >many PRR steam photos, excellent discussion of steam classes, practices, >numbering, loco assignments, etc. In fact, half the book is devoted to >steam, so that the reader can better understand the conditions that led >up to dieselization. Most of the photos have not been published before. >The dustjacket is an eye-popper -- on the front cover, a color painting of >a T1 and new E7s at Harrisburg changing power, and on the rear, some color >sketches developed by the EMD design team for possible use on PRR E units - >some of these are really amazing and will get the juices flowing. > >After the disappointment with TRUIMPH I, it's also nice to see that the >author has done his homework, and consulted with the established >authorities on the PRR, and used the various historical collections >responsibly. > >A couple of quick observations. He has a number of pictures of new E7's in >DGLE with no Keystones on the sides, or, in the case of an A-B-A set, a >Keystone only on the B unit. There is a nice discussion (with good roster >photos) of steam on the Lines West. There are also some early shots of >20th century PRR steam with ROUND number plates. I always thought the >Keystones were used in this century. > >I'm looking forward to really reading the book but wanted to pass the good >word first. > >PRR forever! > >Sincerely, > >George N. Pierson, Ph.D. george.pierson@trnty.edu >Dept. of Philosophy, Trinity Christian College > >------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:53:25 EST Subject: IHC PRR Pass. Cars IHC imported 62 (plus/minus) different car types or numbers and I have acquired 20 of these and would like to get as many of the others as possible. IHC no longer has these cars available so all that are left are scattered in local hobby shops. Does anyone know of any sources? By the way I have an extra Pullman PRR Heavyweight "Bald Eagle" and a Pullman PRR smooth side "Huron Rapids to trade if anyone is interested. Harold McGee Gainesville, FL ------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!