From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 05 Jun 97 11:51:20 UT Subject: Re: Rosters, in general Content-Length: 626 > << BTW Why isn't the PRRT&HS picking up on any of these ideas. (Or at least > > linking ti them) All their web page does is sell membership and t-shirts! > >> > Long ago the PRRT&HS decided it was a historical and technical organization > and not a modelers organization. That is why Teichmoller (sp?? sorry John) > series of articles on open hoppers appeared in MRing after the Keystone > declined to print them because they emphasized modeling as opposed to > historical and technical accuracy. I think it's more general than that. Many/most PRRT&HS members are not computer/Web-enabled. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 05 Jun 97 11:54:53 UT Subject: Re: Keystone Crossings Update Content-Length: 682 > >BTW: Anyone think this is a result of my "NYC merger" joke? > > If you factor in the time difference between a model vs the full > size prototype operating in real time, you can convert approximately 4-6 > weeks into two years. The Penn Central was born on February > 1, 1968 and was in bankruptcy by 1970. > > This was merely an imitation of prototype practices. Anybody > know how many HO or O scale lawyers it would take to sort out > a scale bankruptcy? Lawyers don't scale. They go by rules similar to those governing inflation. Thus, an HO bankruptcy now would require about 3x the number of lawyers involved in the PC bankruptcy in 1970. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@juno.com Date: 05 Jun 97 21:33:58 UT Subject: Re: Keystone Crossings Update Content-Length: 868 This could drag on in the courts for years if the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham & Howe were brought in! On 05 Jun 97 11:54:53 UT bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: >> >BTW: Anyone think this is a result of my "NYC merger" joke? >> >> If you factor in the time difference between a model vs the full >> size prototype operating in real time, you can convert approximately >4-6 >> weeks into two years. The Penn Central was born on February >> 1, 1968 and was in bankruptcy by 1970. >> >> This was merely an imitation of prototype practices. Anybody >> know how many HO or O scale lawyers it would take to sort out >> a scale bankruptcy? > >Lawyers don't scale. They go by rules similar to those governing >inflation. >Thus, an HO bankruptcy now would require about 3x the number of >lawyers >involved in the PC bankruptcy in 1970. > >-- >Mark > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 05 Jun 97 22:27:19 UT Subject: NS on Conrail Content-Length: 213 Is it really true? Are we going to see NS on horseshoe? It took me a long time to warm up to Conrail. NS in the former PRR erecting shop where Pennsy steam was built? This cannot be happening!??!!?! HWF !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 05 Jun 97 23:25:50 UT Subject: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] Content-Length: 1174 I have actually seen the 2nd-story window in Cambridge, Mass., with the name of this fictitious law firm painted on in gold letters. I believe it is on the headquarters of the guys who do the car-repair TV show & syndicated newspaper column. > This could drag on in the courts for years if the law firm > of Dewey, Cheatham & Howe were brought in! > > On 05 Jun 97 11:54:53 UT bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: > >> >BTW: Anyone think this is a result of my "NYC merger" joke? > >> > >> If you factor in the time difference between a model vs the full > >> size prototype operating in real time, you can convert > >> approximately > >4-6 > >> weeks into two years. The Penn Central was born on February 1, > >> 1968 and was in bankruptcy by 1970. > >> > >> This was merely an imitation of prototype practices. Anybody > >> know how many HO or O scale lawyers it would take to sort out a > >> scale bankruptcy? > > > >Lawyers don't scale. They go by rules similar to those governing > >inflation. Thus, an HO bankruptcy now would require about 3x the > >number of lawyers involved in the PC bankruptcy in 1970. > > > >-- > >Mark > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 05 Jun 97 23:33:39 UT Subject: Re: NS on Conrail, it's a reality TODAY Content-Length: 1016 > Is it really true? Are we going to see NS on horseshoe? It took me > a long time to warm up to Conrail. NS in the former PRR erecting > shop where Pennsy steam was built? This cannot be happening!??!!?! Harry, Not that I'm wild about this either, but get used to it. NS diesels already have worked over Horseshoe in pooled-power arrangements (as have those of ATSF, BN, BNSF, UP, C&NW, SP, SSW, etc.) And in some places, the fun has already started. NS is *now* running two trains a day up the Buffalo Line, often behind *brand new* white-dash-frame-striped GE Dash 9s. As NS draws the noose tighter around Reading & Northern's neck with its agreement with CP Rail to run from Scranton via ex-D&H Sunbury main, then Buffalo Line to Harrisburg and Harrisburg Line to Reading, black will be the default color of choice in this part of the Northeast. Before long, the area around MG and Bennington will resemble the grade up Christiansburg Mountain. Dan Cupper Romans 10:9 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 05 Jun 97 23:39:27 UT Subject: Re: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] Content-Length: 1878 You could also add the following: Ketcham, Burnhem & Cheatham and the old firm of Shyster & Shyster of Philadelphia. To be fair I do know some honest Attorneys. Even Abraham Lincoln had a railroad as a client in defense of a rail bridge over the Mississippi. I for one am not ready to start an SIG for studying the effects of lawyers on the PRR or any railroad! Anyone else want to pick up that gauntlet? Harry Fitch Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: cupper@ibm.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 7:25 PM > > I have actually seen the 2nd-story window in Cambridge, Mass., with the name of > this fictitious law firm painted on in gold letters. I believe it is > on the headquarters of the guys who do the car-repair TV show & > syndicated newspaper column. > > > > > This could drag on in the courts for years if the law firm > > of Dewey, Cheatham & Howe were brought in! > > > > On 05 Jun 97 11:54:53 UT bejm@eeg.ccf.org writes: > > >> >BTW: Anyone think this is a result of my "NYC merger" joke? > > >> > > >> If you factor in the time difference between a model vs the full > > >> size prototype operating in real time, you can convert > > >> approximately > > >4-6 > > >> weeks into two years. The Penn Central was born on February 1, > > >> 1968 and was in bankruptcy by 1970. > > >> > > >> This was merely an imitation of prototype practices. Anybody > > >> know how many HO or O scale lawyers it would take to sort out a > > >> scale bankruptcy? > > > > > >Lawyers don't scale. They go by rules similar to those governing > > >inflation. Thus, an HO bankruptcy now would require about 3x the > > >number of lawyers involved in the PC bankruptcy in 1970. > > > > > >-- > > >Mark > > > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 05 Jun 97 23:47:07 UT Subject: Re: NS on Conrail, it's a reality TODAY Content-Length: 1490 In the words of the Northern Pacific personnel when they read the news article about the new UP 4-8-8-4 locomotives a-building would become the worlds largest steam locomotives, above their 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone's. TELL ME IT AIN''T SO! ---------- > From: cupper@ibm.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: NS on Conrail, it's a reality TODAY > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 7:33 PM > > > Is it really true? Are we going to see NS on horseshoe? It took me > > a long time to warm up to Conrail. NS in the former PRR erecting > > shop where Pennsy steam was built? This cannot be happening!??!!?! > > > Harry, > > Not that I'm wild about this either, but get used to it. NS diesels > already have worked over Horseshoe in pooled-power arrangements (as > have those of ATSF, BN, BNSF, UP, C&NW, SP, SSW, etc.) > > And in some places, the fun has already started. NS is *now* running > two trains a day up the Buffalo Line, often behind *brand new* > white-dash-frame-striped GE Dash 9s. As NS draws the noose tighter > around Reading & Northern's neck with its agreement with CP Rail to > run from Scranton via ex-D&H Sunbury main, then Buffalo Line to > Harrisburg and Harrisburg Line to Reading, black will be the default > color of choice in this part of the Northeast. > > Before long, the area around MG and Bennington will resemble the > grade up Christiansburg Mountain. > > > > Dan Cupper > > Romans 10:9 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 06 Jun 97 08:01:48 UT Subject: Re: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] Content-Length: 677 No questions Dan, It's one of those.... this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs type of situations. Of all the things I ever lost, it's my mind that I miss the most! HWF ---------- > From: cupper@ibm.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 9:21 PM > > > > I for one am not ready to start an SIG for studying > > the effects of lawyers on the PRR or any railroad! > > Anyone else want to pick up that gauntlet? > > > > Harry, I have two words for you: > > > Stuart Saunders. > > > Any questions? > > > Dan Cupper !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 06 Jun 97 11:55:08 UT Subject: Re: PRR, attorneys & MBAs (long) (was Dewey, Cheatham & Howe. . .etc.) Content-Length: 3656 In a message dated 97-06-06 00:40:26 EDT, you write: << You could also add the following: Ketcham, Burnhem & Cheatham and the old firm of Shyster & Shyster of Philadelphia.>> A son of Shyster branched out into accoiunting and joined the firm of : Swindler, Shyster & Gyp. << To be fair I do know some honest Attorneys. Even Abraham Lincoln had a railroad as a client in defense of a rail bridge over the Mississippi.>> An honest attorney is one who wins while representing you and then bills for less than the total judgment << I for one am not ready to start an SIG for studying the effects of lawyers on the PRR or any railroad! Anyone else want to pick up that gauntlet?>> Back on topic, a good move. It's been said that a failing of the PRR was that it was run by engineers rather than attorneys and speculators. There is some merit in the classic MBA's argument that the failure of the PRR to file bankruptcy during the depression depleted its cash reserves (by self-financing new car construction, notably the X31 family of boxcars and the F30 family of flatcars among other activities) and left it saddled with senior debt. However, I cannot dispte that the PRR management did the right thing morally by supporting its workers. As I've said in this space before, I strongly feel that geography (a relatively landlocked service area with a minimum major non-competitive ports) and changes in technoilogy (collapse of the classic late 19th Century coal market in the late 1940s and early 1950s with railroad dieselization and efforts to control air pollution, exhastion of Minnesota's Taconite iron ore, demise of large-scale steel smelting in the valleys of the Upper Ohio, Mahoning and Cuyahoga rivers) probably did more the end the classic Pennsylvania Railroad. Remember that anti-trust regulations forced the PRR board to spin off a number of profitable enterprises. The Confolk Southe. . . Norfolk Southern before absorbing Conrail had a significant PRR hertitage. Much of its trackage through Ohio, Indiana and Illinois had been part of the Norfolk & Western Ry. (notably the Sandusky branch which the PRR willingly sold to N&W in 1964 along with the automatic coal loaders at Sandusky harbor to facillitate the N&W's purchase of the Wabash) and the Wabash Ry., companies in which the PRR had at minimum a controlling interest. Greyhound Bus Lines was a PRR spin off. TTX Corp. (TrailerTrain Corp.) got its start in 1954 as the Pennsy's TrucTrain service. I'd dearly love to peek into the investment portfolio's of PRR board members who approved the merger. I suspect they may have been bulging with N&W , TrailerTrain and Greyhound stock while the NYC was saddled with thousands of miles of duplicative routes (PennCentral had at least four E-W main lines across running from New York to Chicago, two lines from Chicago to Cincinnati, two lines from from Indianapolis to St. Louis, two north-south lines in Western Michigan. This was probably at least double the capacity that the market of the late 1960s could support. The situation east of Pittsburgh was probably just as bad. By this time everyone that the there would a major fall out of duplicative lines. While the replacement of Tuscan and Brunswich with Jade Green and black in 1968 and 1969 was painful fot SPFs, those who made the decisions on Broad Street probably benefitted, from another shade of green though all the deals. This is true especially if their estates manged to hold onto the decendents of their Pennsy shares long enough to benefit from the sale of NS or CSX to UP or BNSF. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 06 Jun 97 12:19:35 UT Subject: Re: PRR, attorneys & MBAs (long) (was Dewey, Cheatham & Howe. . .etc.) Content-Length: 839 From: TVondruska@aol.com > Remember that anti-trust regulations forced the PRR board to spin off a > number of profitable enterprises. Gunnarson's book on the "History of the Northern Central Railway" expends quite a few pages on the incredible profits the line was bringing in from its coal fields. These were east of the Susquehanna River between Harrisburg and Williamsport, and along the Elmira branch. The railroad owned the land, owned the mining operations, owned the transport mechanism (itself), and owned the coal docks (Sodus Point). The anti-trust legislation forced a sell-off of the coal investements in the early 1900s. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 06 Jun 97 17:19:30 UT Subject: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 960 The Mrs. and I are celebrating our 10th anniversary in a week. She asked my what I would like as a gift -- of course being the bill payer I said "nothing"! Not accepting that response, I need to get back to her. I plan to model a 1943 "Liberty Limited" with K4 power. Is Bowser the way to go? If so, they offer it with an "old style" vs. a "modern" front end. Which would be appropriate for 1943? Is there adequate room inside for a DCC decoder? Is the "super detail kit" difficult to install? (I'm all thumbs!) Are there different unit numbers and are they accurate for the class? Is the tender accurate? Who are good mail order sources...RR Depot? Any other thoughts? BTW: HO scale. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 06 Jun 97 18:01:23 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 2433 Jerry, >I plan to model a 1943 "Liberty Limited" with K4 power. Is Bowser the way to >go? Bowser isn't bad, with two caveats 1) You probably want to repower it with a can motor 2) You absolutely want to superdetail it > >If so, they offer it with an "old style" vs. a "modern" front end. Which >would be appropriate for 1943? Old style - the new style solid pilot is post ww2 > >Is there adequate room inside for a DCC decoder? Yes, in the tender, but you will ABSOLUTELY need to repower >Is the "super detail kit" difficult to install? (I'm all thumbs!) Yes and no - you need to work slowly, and carefully. Don't get frustrated, work with lots of light, and the right tools (a good dremel, a pin vice with straight pin to place small amount s of acc, forcepts, etc) I would glue most of the parts rather than soldering (use ACC). Al Westerfield has a great video on assembling his kits, and he shows how to use ACC. >Are there different unit numbers and are they accurate for the class? Don't know >Is the tender accurate? Hmmmm - lots of comments around that most Bowser tenders are not - Don't know myself >Who are good mail order sources...RR Depot? Standard Hobby Supply of NJ - best prices by far >Any other thoughts? > I haven't built any of their kits start to finish yet, but havbing used many parts to superdetail a Mantua 2-6-6-2, I know they are pretty nice. Assembling valve gear is supposed to be a pain, but I loved it - work carefully, use nail punch on a batr of steel or iron to do the rivets, and the results are great! Good Luck Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 06 Jun 97 18:29:13 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 568 From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu >>I plan to model a 1943 "Liberty Limited" with K4 power. Is Bowser the way to >>go? > > Bowser isn't bad, with two caveats > 1) You probably want to repower it with a can motor > 2) You absolutely want to superdetail it What about IHC, which has a can motor...should I consider it? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 06 Jun 97 18:35:07 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 345 Jerry, Bowser's ad in July MR lists a complete K4 kit including superdetail kit, assembled valve gear, back plate & figure with the boiler and cab pre-drilled for superdetail kit. There's some arguement about the joy of assembling everything yourself but having someone else do all the drilling is worth the extra price to me. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 06 Jun 97 18:51:48 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 2384 >From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu > >>>I plan to model a 1943 "Liberty Limited" with K4 power. Is Bowser the way >to >>>go? >> >> Bowser isn't bad, with two caveats >> 1) You probably want to repower it with a can motor >> 2) You absolutely want to superdetail it > >What about IHC, which has a can motor...should I consider it? >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > Jerry, I have two superdetailed Bowser (actually Penn Line) K4s. I did both of mine in the modern post war configuration with CalScale and Bowser parts rather thasn using the packaged suoperdetail kit. This is mostly because they were done so ling ago the superdetail kit was not offered. I am thrilled with them. When superdetailed they look very good. AND THEY PULL! I don't know what effect on power the can motor would have, butr with the original DC71 I have hauled 20 car trains up 2.5% grades on the club layout without breaking into a sweat (well, maybe a little condensed steam). I don't believe IHC makes a K4. If you mean the Bachmann, I don't any of those but the word that I have heard is they look beautiful but can't pull their own tender! The Bowser tender is primarily an L1 tender. I have seen one rare foto of a K4 with that tender, and it was taken around 1920. Its an old style tender as indicated by the visible side sills. The Kiesel(sp?) tenders built for the K4s did not have that. The Bachmann tender is a PRR 110P84 (I think). This is the most common tender to run behind a K4. Unfortunatly Bachman will not sell parts, including the tender. :-(( For my K4s I kitbashed a nearly correct tender by slicing two segments out of the shell of a Bowswer long distance tender - the one they offer with the I1. This is probably not a good idea for a novice at craftsman kits with you paculiar arrangement of fingers. But don't let that keep you from building a Bowser K4. You will be very happy with the resulting engin and can always go back later and build the correct tender when you confidence, experience asnd thumbs are up to it. BTW do you plan to paint the cars in the Lowey 2-tone scheme? If so you are a brave man. Tell me how you do it. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 06 Jun 97 21:11:20 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 3659 Jerry, I concur with the gentlemen's comments about the Bachmann Model. The K4s that you are referring to in plastic is the Bachmann model not IHC. With the exception of the Pilot height from rail head, wrong classification lights on the post war model and lack of mechanical lubricator under the left running board, they look great. On LEVEL track they are not too bad a runner. Don't even let the poor old girl EVEN THINK there is a GRADE on your railroad or you will need two of them to pull four cars! Yes I own one and have given it the acid test. I wish Bachmann would sell the tenders from their model. I think they would have a market worth the production. (they are already tooled up) PRR fans would snap them up in bunches. Those old Bowser (Penn Line) tenders would look good around the engine house on your layout. If you want to model the late steam era Parkton Local on the NC, the Bachmann is great. You only need two P70's anyway! Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Bowser K4 > Date: Friday, June 06, 1997 2:51 PM > > > > >From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu > > > >>>I plan to model a 1943 "Liberty Limited" with K4 power. Is Bowser the way > >to > >>>go? > >> > >> Bowser isn't bad, with two caveats > >> 1) You probably want to repower it with a can motor > >> 2) You absolutely want to superdetail it > > > >What about IHC, which has a can motor...should I consider it? > >----------------------------------------------- > >Jerry Britton > >"Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html > >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > >----------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry, > > I have two superdetailed Bowser (actually Penn Line) K4s. I did both of mine in the modern post war configuration with CalScale and Bowser parts rather thasn using the packaged suoperdetail kit. This is mostly because they were done so ling ago the superdetail kit was not offered. > I am thrilled with them. When superdetailed they look very good. AND THEY PULL! I don't know what effect on power the can motor would have, butr with the original DC71 I have hauled 20 car trains up 2.5% grades on the club layout without breaking into a sweat (well, maybe a little condensed steam). > > I don't believe IHC makes a K4. If you mean the Bachmann, I don't any of those but the word that I have heard is they look beautiful but can't pull their own tender! > > The Bowser tender is primarily an L1 tender. I have seen one rare foto of a K4 with that tender, and it was taken around 1920. Its an old style tender as indicated by the visible side sills. The Kiesel(sp?) tenders built for the K4s did not have that. The Bachmann tender is a PRR 110P84 (I think). This is the most common tender to run behind a K4. Unfortunatly Bachman will not sell parts, including the tender. :-(( > For my K4s I kitbashed a nearly correct tender by slicing two segments out of the shell of a Bowswer long distance tender - the one they offer with the I1. This is probably not a good idea for a novice at craftsman kits with you paculiar arrangement of fingers. But don't let that keep you from building a Bowser K4. You will be very happy with the resulting engin and can always go back later and build the correct tender when you confidence, experience asnd thumbs are up to it. > > BTW do you plan to paint the cars in the Lowey 2-tone scheme? If so you are a brave man. Tell me how you do it. > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 06 Jun 97 21:16:04 UT Subject: Re: NS on Conrail, it's a reality TODAY Content-Length: 471 > white-dash-frame-striped GE Dash 9s. As NS draws the noose tighter > around Reading & Northern's neck with its agreement with CP Rail to > run from Scranton via ex-D&H Sunbury main, then Buffalo Line to > Harrisburg and Harrisburg Line to Reading, black will be the default > color of choice in this part of the Northeast. Dan et al., don't forget that that "ex-D&H Sunbury Main" would, under D&H, be called the "ex-PRR Wilkes Barre Branch". :-) -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 06 Jun 97 21:29:11 UT Subject: my own "crash" Content-Length: 1139 Y'all may have noticed that _my_ web site "crashed" as well, last night ... I dropped by work around 2300 to find my workstation with 5 working windows, and one not working. The one not working was connected to our administrative computer, which also handles email, Web services, name services, etc etc etc. Actually, most of the computer was working, but one device kept timing out, effectively nixing all other work. After a continuous 2-hour phone conference with 2 other people, we got the thing running most of the way. One disk drive (external) refused to work. Web services were back up 0100, but email was not. It was a power supply in that cabinet. HP came out and fixed it this afternoon, and all is well here, too. Luckily, the Web software is on one computer, my site is on yet another, and both are backed up nightly, and separately. Jerry, at some point I will be getting a larger disk for my workstation. In fact, they may be changing my workstation to a RISC machine. At that time, it may be wise for me to mirror your site on my computer, and for you to mirror mine on yours ... -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 06 Jun 97 23:08:35 UT Subject: Pre 1900 PRR Modeling Content-Length: 727 Are there any members of the group who have experience at modeling the PRR pre-1900 ? If so what are your thoughts on such a project? It would seem that few would be doing this and it would allow operations with sharper curves and other modeling comprimises without looking so unrealistic. To me it seems like a complete do it yourself for everything besides track. Is this the case? Are there other resources that I am missing that would allow some flexibility? I have never tried it. I was intrigued by an 1800's NC display in HO at a recent Greenberg Train Show. What about equipment, operational problems, total scratch build? etc Thanks in advance. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com Date: 06 Jun 97 23:10:45 UT Subject: Re: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] Content-Length: 793 Yes, The window is Tom & Ray's offices. However, DC&H is not a fictional law firm as we have been led to believe but the production company which produces "CAR TALK" for National Public Radio. ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.Com Management Services 1-800-484-7673-8270 Michael E. Allen MEAllen@Juno.Com On 06 Jun 97 01:21:36 UT cupper@ibm.net writes: > >> I for one am not ready to start an SIG for studying >> the effects of lawyers on the PRR or any railroad! >> Anyone else want to pick up that gauntlet? > > > >Harry, I have two words for you: > > >Stuart Saunders. > > >Any questions? > > >Dan Cupper > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 07 Jun 97 16:18:24 UT Subject: Form 109-K now available at "KC" Content-Length: 691 As I am rebuilding "KC", I am pleased to report the availability of a new booklet in PDF format: Form 109-K, Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders, dated June 2, 1952, provides specs on all diesel, steam, and electric classes thru that date. Also, tenders' specs and what units they were used with. Provided by Dave Wartell. This is available via Web and FTP. The CT1000E has been restored to both Web and FTP as well. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 07 Jun 97 16:59:41 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 884 After reviewing the many responses on the Bowser, I don't know what to do. I always thought Bowser was the way to go for Pennsy steam. Sounds like no problem to add the DCC (in the tender). The July MR ad (p. 29) does offer the K4 kit w/ the super detail kit and more...and predrilled for everything. I prefer something that is RTR, though. I was concerned that I got three responses indicating the need for repowering...one specified a can motor. This is beyond my level of (current) expertise. Is repowering really necessary? I plan to pull 8-10 passenger cars, and I will have up to 3% grades (1" rise in roughly 3' of run). ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 07 Jun 97 17:27:41 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 2793 Jerry, Fear not, I am into my 4th decade and assembled my first Bowser kit (L1) at age 13. Valve gear is not as bad as some think. My problem was I could not determine the insulated side of one of the drivers by looking at it. I learned real fast that they all have to go on the same side. You can use the Bowser motor with standard power supply. The standard gearing is a little noisy, but it will pull a brick down your layout. What satisfies you in the hobby makes the difference. If you build to satisfy others I wish you well. (can't be done) I have Bowser N5 and N5C Cabins. They fit my family man's purse and look reasonably like the real thing. If someone else does not like it, there is room for their outlook in the hobby too. Thats the good part, flexibility. Some folks don't even bother with much scenery for instance because they like to build rolling stock and run it rather than do the scenery thing. Remember the great model builder Mel Thornburgh who built models for MR projects in the early fifties and for the B&O museum? He ran his stuff at home on British prototype track because it appealed to him! I still have a box full of Tyco cabooses that I plan to hack up to turn the roof around to center the cupola so that I can make a poor man's N8 cabin. I still feed a family of five on one income. That cut and paste N8 will look good to me. (some just like to use any equipment, as long as it is lettered for their favorite road) I have no desire to make the cover of MR. I just want to have a little fun. It sounds like you have great plans to model some fun yourself. Best Wishes, Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: jerry@dsop.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Bowser K4 > Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 12:59 PM > > > After reviewing the many responses on the Bowser, I don't know what to do. I > always thought Bowser was the way to go for Pennsy steam. > > Sounds like no problem to add the DCC (in the tender). The July MR ad (p. > 29) does offer the K4 kit w/ the super detail kit and more...and predrilled > for everything. I prefer something that is RTR, though. > > I was concerned that I got three responses indicating the need for > repowering...one specified a can motor. This is beyond my level of (current) > expertise. > > Is repowering really necessary? I plan to pull 8-10 passenger cars, and I > will have up to 3% grades (1" rise in roughly 3' of run). > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 08 Jun 97 14:48:22 UT Subject: I can't seem to win... Content-Length: 854 I can't seem to win... Had a break in power this morning. Everything came back up except the modem. I have confirmed that it is not working and will need to get a replacement cross-shipped to me on Monday, June 9. Meanwhile, I am running at 14.4K. I don't recommend accessing this site at that speed, but it is available. Use the temporary URL http://www.dsop. com/britton/railroad/index_temp.html. The only reason I brought the server up at this speed is that mail shoulds still work adequately. (I have kept the FTP site off.) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 08 Jun 97 15:29:11 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 4524 Jerry, >After reviewing the many responses on the Bowser, I don't know what to do. I >always thought Bowser was the way to go for Pennsy steam. Well, actually, there is some really nice brass out there... >Sounds like no problem to add the DCC (in the tender). The July MR ad (p. >29) does offer the K4 kit w/ the super detail kit and more...and predrilled >for everything. I prefer something that is RTR, though. Bad news - sounds like brass is the only way to go. Before you run screaming from the room, check out Mitchell's (www.mitchels.com) and Peach Creek Shops (http://users.aol.com/peachcreek/peachcreek/peachmr.htm). They are by far the best dealers I know of. I picked up (rather, I should say that my wife bought me...) a very nice, can motor powered prewar K4 for $400 there last summer. >I was concerned that I got three responses indicating the need for >repowering...one specified a can motor. This is beyond my level of (current) >expertise. Why do you say this? How will you ever get to that "level of expertise" if you don't do it? I used to say the same thing, but now, I feel a thrill when I open a kit box, and the contents look like a flat car load - just a stack of lumber!!!! How did I learn? I just did it! My other favorite hobby, homebrewing, has a saying "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew". Apply this in liberal doses! Here are some guidelines: 1) Make sure your wife (the gift giver) knows that this will be a learning experience (pressure to not screw up because it was a present will cause more worry than is healthy) I tell everyone who gives me RR stuff, not to expect it to look like the box, because I will modify it. 2) Read all of the instructions FIRST (this really does help). Read some articles and reviews (like the review last year of the Bowser I-1) for helpful hints. Also look at http://www.arc.umn.edu/~wes/model/HO-steam.html http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/faq/page4.html#Kits_Bowser for some advice on buildoing these kits. 3) Gather all of the appropriate parts - order superdetail parts directly from Terminal Hobby, after checking their availability on the Walthers web site (www.walthers.com) 4) Gather all of the appropriate tools. 5) ALWAYS work with some photos of the real thing for inspiration (did that thingamajig really go there?) 6) Work slowly and carefully. Drill and test fit, glue, and let dry. Follow the This Old House motto - "measure twice, cut once". Don't try to do toooooo much at one sitting. Work in good light, with few distractions. Glue on three parts a night, and LET THEM DRY! Look at the loco the next morning and say "Wow, that looks good". Show off your progress to your spouse (mine always says "that looks very nice dear"). 7) ADMIT mistakes. If the part don't look right to YOU - redo it. Holes can be pugged, defects filled, parts reordered. It doesn't have to be PERFECT the first time. DO NOT CONTINUE TO WORK IF YOU ARE FRUSTRATED! Take a break. >Is repowering really necessary? I plan to pull 8-10 passenger cars, and I >will have up to 3% grades (1" rise in roughly 3' of run). Part of the reason that Bowser locos can pull down walls is their weight. This will be unaffected by repowering. If you want to use DCC, you MUST repower. The old motors just don't cut it. They also detract from the appearance of the loco with that big ugly worm gear. Several companies make repowering kits for Bowser locos (I'm not sure if one is available for the K4) and those will walk you through the process. If you can install a DCC receiver, you have more than enough skill to repower a loco. Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 08 Jun 97 19:27:04 UT Subject: Re: NS on Conrail, it's a reality TODAY Content-Length: 1084 In a message dated 97-06-06 00:26:57 EDT, cupper@ibm.net writes: << Not that I'm wild about this either, but get used to it. NS diesels already have worked over Horseshoe in pooled-power arrangements (as have those of ATSF, BN, BNSF, UP, C&NW, SP, SSW, etc.) And in some places, the fun has already started. NS is *now* running two trains a day up the Buffalo Line, often behind *brand new* white-dash-frame-striped GE Dash 9s. As NS draws the noose tighter around Reading & Northern's neck with its agreement with CP Rail to run from Scranton via ex-D&H Sunbury main, then Buffalo Line to Harrisburg and Harrisburg Line to Reading, black will be the default color of choice in this part of the Northeast. Before long, the area around MG and Bennington will resemble the grade up Christiansburg Mountain. >> May already be started. NS has been running several trans a day over the Connemaugh. I haven't determined how they are getting to Conway. I must assume they are traveling the Pittsburgh Division east of Con-Pitt Jct. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 08 Jun 97 20:25:04 UT Subject: 1948 "Detour Map" now at "KC" Content-Length: 1244 You'll want to wait until I get my faster modem back online, but save this e-mail for reference. I just scanned in "Plan 7513, Eastern Region, Eastern Penna. Division, Philadelphia Division Detour Map" (639K), dated Nov 24, 1948. This 22" by 36" map shows the "Detour Routes in Case of Emergency" dispatchers would use. It also indicates engine restrictions on these routes based on curvature, weight, and clearance. Detail of numerous junctions is provided, as are connections with other railroads. The original was provided by Dave Wartel. I had to scan it in 10 pieces and reassemble it in Adobe PhotoShop. Whew! This chart answers a previous discussion on the list: "Did a T1 ever pull the Liberty Ltd south of Harrisburg?" No! This chart shows that the stretch from Wago Junction to York was restricted and did not allow the following: I1, M1, N1, N2, Q1, S1, S2, T1, HH1. If they weren't running K4 all the way west, they probably did so to Harrisburg and then went T1 west. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 09 Jun 97 10:25:29 UT Subject: Re: Bowser K4 Content-Length: 2576 Jerry Britton said: >After reviewing the many responses on the Bowser, I don't know what to do. I >always thought Bowser was the way to go for Pennsy steam. > >Sounds like no problem to add the DCC (in the tender). The July MR ad (p. >29) does offer the K4 kit w/ the super detail kit and more...and predrilled >for everything. I prefer something that is RTR, though. > >I was concerned that I got three responses indicating the need for >repowering...one specified a can motor. This is beyond my level of (current) >expertise. > >Is repowering really necessary? I plan to pull 8-10 passenger cars, and I >will have up to 3% grades (1" rise in roughly 3' of run). >----------------------------------------------- Jerry, For 8-10 cars on 3% you need a Bowser. Consider the Bachmann only for your second K4 to double head the train up the hill for effect. Bowser offers the loco RTR. I don't know if the superdetailed version is also available RTR, but even if it is available, it may be more than your thoughtful spouse is willing to think of. Harry mentioned that the Bowser gearing is loud. Unfortunatly true. I have often kiddingly remarked as mine goes by that "I love the sound of steam"!! Of course its going by with a 20 car Juniata up a 2.5% grade - so I'll live with it. About your 1940 Libery Ltd; I was looking in my Wayner "Car Names and Consists" this weekend (picking a name for a Texas Special car for the Penn Texas) and had you in mind. The Liberty seems to have run with 2 12-5 BROOK series sleepers(available from IHC), a 10-5 CASCADE (car sides available from American Ltd), an 18 Roomette CITY OF...(unavailable ;-( ), a 3-1 COLONIAL Lounge (unavailable), and a VIEW series boat tailed observation, also unavailable. While not regularly assigned, the PRR had numerous IMPERIAL 4-4-2s available and I'm sure they wound up in the Libery from time to time. I mention this because they ARE available in the prewar configuration from Eastern Car Works. The diner was undoubtly a modernized D78. You could probably talk your way into using the original version (the protection car - right?). Its available from Bachmann (painted RTR with good trucks and interiors) or from ECW (unpainted kit only with trucks not worth anything). Harry, I did a Tyco conversion to an N8 many years ago. Its a good kitbash. The results are very close. Two things to remeber: fill the small window, the N8 had only the 2 big windows, change the steps to the cast ladder version so popular on PRR cabin cars. regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 09 Jun 97 10:44:40 UT Subject: Liberty Limited Consist (Was Bowser K4) Content-Length: 1994 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > About your 1940 Libery Ltd; I was looking in my Wayner "Car Names and Consists" this weekend (picking a > name for a Texas Special car for the Penn Texas) and had you in mind. The Liberty seems to have run with 2 12-5 > BROOK series sleepers(available from IHC), a 10-5 CASCADE (car sides available from American Ltd), an 18 > Roomette CITY OF...(unavailable ;-( ), a 3-1 COLONIAL Lounge (unavailable), and a VIEW series boat tailed > observation, also unavailable. > >While not regularly assigned, the PRR had numerous IMPERIAL 4-4-2s available and I'm sure they wound up in > the Libery from time to time. I mention this because they ARE available in the prewar configuration from Eastern > Car I have seen the Wayner book, and it is helpful. However, I had quoted the 1943 Liberty Ltd. One of the files I lost was a PDF I had made of a (Nov. 1979, I think) Rails Northeast article on the Liberty Ltd. I will be reborrowing the original in a week or so. The article provided consist reports from about a dozen versions of this train over the years. What intrigued me about modeling the 1943 version is that it ran in two sections. Based on my model researching before "the crash", there are more models available to model that year than there were per Wayner's 1940 report. (Wayner's report excels in that it reports car numbers/names whereas the Rails Northeast article quotes models only.) I also plan a 1953 Liberty Limited powered by the forthcoming P2K E7 units (due late '97/early '98). Regarding Rails Northeast, I'd like to post relevant articles in PDF format, but the publisher has evaded location for "permissions". That leaves copyright to the original authors, I guess, which would be a formidable task. 8-( --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 09 Jun 97 11:17:07 UT Subject: "KC" modem update Content-Length: 281 New (free replacement) modem is on the way...should arrive Tuesday or, at latest, Wednesday. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Da72jmk@aol.com Date: 09 Jun 97 11:47:45 UT Subject: Re: Pre 1900 PRR Modeling Content-Length: 875 << hfitch@maranatha.net wrote: Are there any members of the group who have experience at modeling the PRR pre-1900 ? If so what are your thoughts on such a project? It would seem that few would be doing this and it would allow operations with sharper curves and other modeling comprimises without looking so unrealistic. >> There was a series of article in Railroad Model Craftsman about this topic recently (maybe about the beginning of the year?) There were quite a few ideas for kitbashing appropriate equipment. Mantua makes an E3 that would be appropriate for the late 1800's. I believe that someone imported the H3 in brass, and maybe some of the earlier class D Americans. Westerfield had a limited run of a wood PRR passenger train. I highly recommend the Alexander book _Along the Mainline_ for detail photos and general inspiration. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 09 Jun 97 16:53:24 UT Subject: Penn Station Content-Length: 448 I just recieved my copy of the recent reprinting of "The Late Great Pennsylvania Station". It has a foto I have looked for for a long time showing how the open area at the west end of the concourse was covered over in later years. The lower (arrival)level was extended. All of the fotos of the station when new show this area open down to the tracks. When was this covered over? Was it when the AC overhead went in? regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 09 Jun 97 17:02:14 UT Subject: Red roofs Content-Length: 589 PRR steamers had their roofs, window frames , and tender decks painted red. At least some of them. Color fotos (being late in the history of photography and the PRR) tend to show the engines as all black. Or was this merely because the red was "weathered"? Did the PRR ever stop using the red paint. Someone (I don't recall who) suggested that the engines in the east were painted all black in later years but that the western PRR continued with the red roofs etc until the end of steam. Should my Eastern Region early 50s engine roofs be red or black? regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 09 Jun 97 17:20:54 UT Subject: Re: Penn Station Content-Length: 834 > I just recieved my copy of the recent reprinting of "The Late Great > Pennsylvania Station". > It has a foto I have looked for for a long time showing how the open area > at the west end of the concourse was covered over in later years. The > lower (arrival)level was extended. All of the fotos of the station when > new show this area open down to the tracks. When was this covered over? > Was it when the AC overhead went in? It was mentioned only briefly in the book. The area was covered to allow for more room on the concourse floor. It had nothing to do with AC, so far as I recall. Of interest: Lorraine Diehl runs a "Late Great Penn. Station" tour, last Monday of every month, at the "modern" Penn Station. Details on her web site (to which you can get from "links.html" on my site ...) -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: relliott@mail.telis.org Date: 09 Jun 97 21:10:19 UT Subject: PRR K4s streamlined loco Content-Length: 362 Hello, I'm looking for information on the 1938 (or is it '36) PRR K4s streamilned pacific that was designed by Ray Loewy. I would really like to get a hold of some plans to get some dimensional data. Also what kind of passenger cars did it run with? Has anyone produced it in either HO or N scale? Thanks, Roger Elliott relliott.telis@mail.telis.org !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 10 Jun 97 07:47:01 UT Subject: NS "Feel Good" ads Content-Length: 471 You know Norfolk Southern's coming to the area when your local evening and morning news (WHTM TV-27, ABC, Harrisburg) airs NS "feel good" ads! The ads are obviously a PR campaign to get locals used to seeing NS since they are so used to Conrail. Actually, a pretty effective ad. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 10 Jun 97 08:54:01 UT Subject: Kato GP35? Content-Length: 253 Hey, An opportunity to pick up an undec. Kato GP35 phase 1b has come up, but since the railroads and the builders don't use "phases" I don't know what phase is appropriate if I want to model the Pennsy's units. Anyone know? Thanks... -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 10 Jun 97 09:32:01 UT Subject: Re: PRR K4s streamlined loco Content-Length: 546 In a message dated 97-06-10 06:33:25 EDT, you write: << streamilned pacific that was designed by Ray Loewy. I would really like to get a hold of some plans to get some dimensional data. Also what kind of passenger cars did it run with? Has anyone produced it in either HO or N scale? Thanks, Roger Elliott relliott.telis@mail.telis.org >> This locomotive was produced by ALCO models in brass about 10 years ago. It is occassionally available from used brass dealers. Check with The Caboose, Mitchell's etc. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 10 Jun 97 11:08:25 UT Subject: N8 modeling in plastic & brass (was Re: Bowser K4) Content-Length: 1461 In a message dated 97-06-09 10:34:31 EDT, you write: << Harry, I did a Tyco conversion to an N8 many years ago. Its a good kitbash. The results are very close. Two things to remeber: fill the small window, the N8 had only the 2 big windows, change the steps to the cast ladder version so popular on PRR cabin cars. regards Andy Miller >> I thoght the same thing about the steps but it just ain't so. The AAR casting was not used on the N8. The steps are fabricated as part of the end platform. An article on the kitbash in the Nov. 1991 Mainline Modeler describes altering the Tyco steps into a rough approimization but it was rather fragile and I wasn't satisfied with the results. When I try again, I'll probably fabricate the entire platform. I replaced the thick cast on "ears" on either of the platform with..010 styrene cut to shape and guled onto a .012 brass wire and got a durable and more realistic appearance of the side railings on the platforms Also the cuts on the Tyco cabeese bodies described in the MM article result in the proper and near exact location of the side windows on the finished cabin body but the cast on rivets are all wrong. It'd be nice if the N8 was welded but it ain't Since we're talking about the N8, last winter I picked the Overland brass and wood N8 kit. I still haven't started it. Guess I'm a bit imtimidated. Has anyone out there built this kit. Any advice, tips? Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: railpix@philly.infi.net Date: 10 Jun 97 11:33:11 UT Subject: Annual Report 1960 Content-Length: 892 Hello all; I now have on my railcard page the cover of the 1960 PRR Annual Report. Its a nice color image with a GG1 on the High Line. Enjoy !! Stan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----RAILPIX PAGE---------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/railpix.html ****************************************************** ---------Voice Mail-- 1-888-947-8542 --------------- ---New Free RAILPIX RAILCARD Page----- ---{Send Free RailCards}--- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html *************************************** Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel, is a train coming the other way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: schlund@hsq.com Date: 10 Jun 97 12:15:00 UT Subject: Streamlined K4 modeling Content-Length: 1111 To Roger Elliott and Members of group Roger wrote: "I'm looking for information on the 1938 (or is it '36) PRR K4s streamilned pacific that was designed by Ray Loewy. I would really like to get a hold of some plans to get some dimensional data. Also what kind of passenger cars did it run with? Has anyone produced it in either HO or N scale? Thanks, Roger Elliott relliott.telis@mail.telis.org" Plans for the streamlined K4 are in the Kalmbach Steam Cyclopedia. I forget the exact title, but it is a compilation of all the Kalmbach steam loco drawings in one book. If you cannot find it, I photocopied the page several years back, and could in turn mail you a photocopy of that. It was also made in N scale a couple of years back, by the same importer who imported "normal" K4's at the same time. Don't remember which one, but if you ask around at stores which specialize in N scale (there are quite a few now) you should be able to get more details. Hope that helps... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 10 Jun 97 12:17:15 UT Subject: RE: PRR K4s streamlined loco Content-Length: 1067 >Hello, >I'm looking for information on the 1938 (or is it '36) PRR K4s >streamilned pacific that was designed by Ray Loewy. I would really like >to get a hold of some plans to get some dimensional data. Also what >kind of passenger cars did it run with? Has anyone produced it in >either HO or N scale? >Thanks, >Roger Elliott >relliott.telis@mail.telis.org > - ---- Roger, I just finished talking with Jerry Britton re building a WWII Liberty Ltd. I suggested this consist in HO: B-60 baggage Bethlehem Car Works BM70? RPO Baggage IHC 12-5 BROOK sleeper IHC (2 cars) 10-5 CASCADE sleeper American Ltd sides, ECW core kit body D78 Diner Bachmann 4-4-2 IMPERIAL sleeperECW Obs nothing avalable (try the ECW NYC car for a boat-tail obs and paint it FOM named FEDERAL VIEW) Of course, for more general service you can include lots of Bachmann P70s, the beautiful Bethlehem Car Works M70b RPO, and the new Red Caboose X29s in passenger service. Regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 10 Jun 97 13:12:48 UT Subject: Do these companies have Web sites? Content-Length: 312 Has anyone found Web sites for any of these companies: IHC Red Caboose Bethlehem Car Works Bachman Life Like Thanks. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 10 Jun 97 13:18:20 UT Subject: Modeling late 1800s Content-Length: 1811 Someone expressed an interest in modeling the PRR in the late 1800s. Westerfield just announced the following new cars: 9100 YELLOW KID 6-CAR SET - COMBINE ERAS: 90s 00s MODELS: Pennsylvania Limited of 1899- 1902 in the only accurate set ever offered. ROADS: PRR 9100 =A0- Price: $350.00 The full vestibule Pullman Palace cars debuted at the Columbian Expositio= n in 1893. Until the advent of all-steel cars the were the epitome of luxurious travel. The Pennsylvania Limited was inaugurated in the 1880's. In 1892 narrow vestibule cars were placed i= n service. In 1895 they were supplanted by full vestibule cars. In 1898 the cream and green color scheme was chosen. In 1899 the cars were refurbished with oval windows and a red letterboard, creating the famous color scheme. The colors were used until late 1902 when the Pennsylvania Special became the top train on the railroad. These kits include complete roof, underbody and interior detail, trucks, couplers, diaphragms, decals, etc. plus a history of the cars. They are the most complete and accurate passenger cars ever offered in any scale. Each car is physically different to match the prototypes. Decals covers every name of the cars used in the four identical trains. The set also includes a 28-page history of the train with photos, general arrangements, broshure reproductions, maps, consists, timetables and contemporary articles. An 12x18" art print of Larry Fisher'= s famous painting of The Yellow Kid, especially revised by Mr. Fisher to match our research, is included. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 10 Jun 97 13:19:30 UT Subject: Re: Do these companies have Web sites? Content-Length: 69 www.bachmann.com is bachmann, but there's nothing there yet -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 10 Jun 97 13:48:03 UT Subject: Re: Do these companies have Web sites? Content-Length: 1044 From: shadow@dementia.org > www.bachmann.com is bachmann, but there's nothing there yet I don't think this is "our" Bachmann. Did a "WhoIs" and got the following information: Whois Query Results ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Bachmann BACHMANN-DOM 704 Forest Trail Cedar Park, TX 48613 Domain Name: BACHMANN.COM Domain Status: On Hold Administrative Contact: Raisch, Robert RR298 raisch@INTERNET.COM (617) 547-4731 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Love, William J. WJL4 love@INTERNET.COM (617) 547-4731 Record last updated on 13-Apr-97. Record created on 17-Aug-93. Database last updated on 10-Jun-97 04:43:46 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.INTERNET.COM 140.186.90.110 NIC.CENT.NET 140.186.1.4 --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 10 Jun 97 14:54:13 UT Subject: Re: Do these companies have Web sites? Content-Length: 284 > > From: shadow@dementia.org > > > www.bachmann.com is bachmann, but there's nothing there yet > > I don't think this is "our" Bachmann. Did a "WhoIs" and got the following > information: See what I get for not checking with whois? bachmanninc.com; Sorry -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 10 Jun 97 19:34:46 UT Subject: Easier access to "KC" Content-Length: 869 My Web site (still running at 14.4 until Wednesday or so) now has an easier URL. The existing URL will remain, as this is the URL all the search engines have had since last September. This URL is http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html . I now have the capability to serve virtual domains. I have created a virtual host which points to the same directory and serves the same files. The new URL is http://prr.dsop.com . This is much easier to remember. You may use either URL. Let me know if you encounter any problems. NOTE: The virtual URL requires that your browser sends the "host" header. Most do. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 10 Jun 97 20:56:08 UT Subject: Re: NS "Feel Good" ads Content-Length: 931 Thanks for the news Jerry, I'll try not to shoot the messenger because of the message. But as for NS taking in a large chunk of ex PRR and planting their little selves right smack dab in Altoona. This to me is like herding swine in the temple in Jerusalem. ---------- > From: britton@pit-magnus.com > To: Members of group > Subject: NS "Feel Good" ads > Date: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 3:47 AM > > > You know Norfolk Southern's coming to the area when your local evening and > morning news (WHTM TV-27, ABC, Harrisburg) airs NS "feel good" ads! > > The ads are obviously a PR campaign to get locals used to seeing NS since > they are so used to Conrail. Actually, a pretty effective ad. > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: 10 Jun 97 21:25:48 UT Subject: Re: Dewey Cheatham & Howe [off topic . . . *way* off topic] Content-Length: 274 In a message dated 97-06-06 08:34:51 EDT, you write: << > I for one am not ready to start an SIG for studying > the effects of lawyers on the PRR or any railroad! > Anyone else want to pick up that gauntlet? >> Oh no, not the gauntlet/gantlet thread again!!!! !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: 11 Jun 97 05:50:01 UT Subject: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 509 Today I saw a list of the car names to be assigned to the new Amtrak Viewliner sleepers. Among the names are: Mountain View Tower View Metropolitan View Skyline View Of course, these were observation cars which usually graced the Broadway Limited. I believe the first two were 1948 cars, the latter two were Fleet of Modernism cars. My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? Rich Copeland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 11 Jun 97 06:20:31 UT Subject: Re: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 938 Rich, It's all a plot. PC, Amtrak, Conrail............ but these folks (NS) we're dealing with now go back and get their golf shoes on before they kick you while your down. ( in a smiling and courteous manner of course) ---------- > From: PRRMAN@aol.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 1:50 AM > > Today I saw a list of the car names to be assigned to the > new Amtrak Viewliner sleepers. Among the names are: > > Mountain View > Tower View > Metropolitan View > Skyline View > > Of course, these were observation cars which usually graced > the Broadway Limited. I believe the first two were 1948 cars, the > latter two were Fleet of Modernism cars. > > My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the > PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? > > Rich Copeland > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 11 Jun 97 06:20:51 UT Subject: Re: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 1287 From: PRRMAN@aol.com > Today I saw a list of the car names to be assigned to the > new Amtrak Viewliner sleepers. Among the names are: > > Mountain View > Tower View > Metropolitan View > Skyline View > > Of course, these were observation cars which usually graced > the Broadway Limited. I believe the first two were 1948 cars, the > latter two were Fleet of Modernism cars. > > My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the > PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? When Amtrak announced the return of the "Broadway Limited" last year, they indicated in their press release that they wanted to return the "flavor" of the "BL" was well. They indicated that the train would receive all new cars, for one thing. I don't know if they continued to use these names until the "B'Way" was cancelled by them originally, and now they are reappearing, or if there was a much longer lapse. I guess I don't mind the concept, but perhaps a "II" suffix would be in order! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 11 Jun 97 07:08:19 UT Subject: Liberty Limited Rides Again Content-Length: 618 This Saturday my wife and I are riding the Liberty Limited dinner train out of Stewartstown, Pa. The four hour event combines dinner with a theater production..."Murder on the Limited". Looking forward to it. The train rides on the old Northern Central line, but I don't know how far (I think around 21 miles) and through what towns. Does anyone know the stretch of track involved and what sites I should look for en-route? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 11 Jun 97 08:36:59 UT Subject: PRR Flat Car FD2 470245 in Altoona Content-Length: 502 Greetings to the group, Conrail 766163, former PRR FD2 class flat car 470245 (the BIG one), is in Altoona. It is on the track leading to the museum across from the station. The 12th Street foot bridge gives an excellent view. Don't know if it now belongs to the museum. I'll find out and let the group know. For those with a latent NYC interest, it is coupled to the NYC's "Elkhart Hook" derrick. The derrick and its idler/boom tender do belong to the museum. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 11 Jun 97 08:38:48 UT Subject: Erie to Emporium Passenger Trains Content-Length: 2443 Greetings to the group, Passenger service survived between Erie and Emporium until March 27, 1967 (See page 54 of Yanosey's _Pennsy Diesel Years 3_). Trains 580 and 581 were the last two passenger trains. Train 581 was known as the Northern express. Train 580 was known as the Southern Express. Trains 580 and 581 ran between Erie and Emporium. At Emporium they combined/split with trains 574 and 575. Trains 574 and 575 were known as the Dominion Express. The Dominion Express ran between Washington and Buffalo with connecting service to Toronto. According to their mid 50s schedule, the Dominion/Northern Express arrived at Renovo at 3:00 AM. It made Emporium by 4:04. About 30 minutes were allocated for switching the train. The Dominion, Train 575, continued on to Buffalo. The Northern Express originating as train 581 at Emporium. Both trains left Emporium at 4:40 AM. The Northern Express reached Erie at 10:20 AM. The Dominion/Southern Express left Erie at 6:15 PM. It made Emporium by 11:30 PM. Again, about 30 minutes were allocated for switching. Now combined with Train 574, it left Emporium at 12:08 AM. It made Renovo by 1:30 AM. The April 1956 _Official Guide..._ lists the typical make up of the trains, north of Williamsport, as follows: 575/581 Dominion/Northern Express Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 NYC - Emporium Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie Coaches Washington - Buffalo to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 574/580 Dominion/Souther Express Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg Coaches Buffalo - Washington Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 from 580 Erie - Harrisburg Hope this helps the folks modeling the P&E between Emporium and Erie. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 11 Jun 97 08:51:08 UT Subject: Re: NS "Feel Good" ads Content-Length: 918 Speaking of this, two nights ago some friends of mine and I headed out to see a Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Bailey Circus train that was coming through. When we got as far east as Greensburg a bunch of people were waiting so we stopped (it was going to be there or Latrobe) and went up on the south platform (which is closed because they're finally renovating the station there, but that's another story). In about 10 minutes, there it came. Later we headed back west, and saw the Conrail Office Car Special heading west past Ardara (just after dusk), and then headed to downtown Pittsburgh to watch both the Capitol and the Three Rivers arrive. The question in all of this that's actually related to the subject is that after the OCS passed I asked my friend if he knew who was getting it, and we discussed such things most of the way to town from there. Anyone know who's getting the OCS? -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 11 Jun 97 09:13:17 UT Subject: RE: Liberty Limited Rides Again Content-Length: 703 >This Saturday my wife and I are riding the Liberty Limited dinner train out >of Stewartstown, Pa. The four hour event combines dinner with a theater >production..."Murder on the Limited". Looking forward to it. > >The train rides on the old Northern Central line, but I don't know how far >(I think around 21 miles) and through what towns. Does anyone know the >stretch of track involved and what sites I should look for en-route? >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton - ----- Must be terribly distracting. Here you ar trying to look out the window at the former PRR and not missm a detail; and someone is commiting muder at your table! regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 11 Jun 97 09:21:53 UT Subject: Re: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 779 > Today I saw a list of the car names to be assigned to the > new Amtrak Viewliner sleepers. Among the names are: > > Mountain View > Tower View > Metropolitan View > Skyline View > > Of course, these were observation cars which usually graced > the Broadway Limited. I believe the first two were 1948 cars, the > latter two were Fleet of Modernism cars. > > My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the > PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? I think it's their tribute to the PRR. Many ex-PRR guys remained and work for Amtrak. SEPTA, from my _in_formal experience, tended to keep more RDG guys. And Conrail is mixed, with perhaps a bit more NYC than PRR. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 11 Jun 97 09:25:49 UT Subject: RE: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 664 I think they "VIEW" it as an honor. I suppose we should be happy that they recocnize their PRR heritage. regards Andy Miller >Today I saw a list of the car names to be assigned to the >new Amtrak Viewliner sleepers. Among the names are: > >Mountain View >Tower View >Metropolitan View >Skyline View > >Of course, these were observation cars which usually graced >the Broadway Limited. I believe the first two were 1948 cars, the >latter two were Fleet of Modernism cars. > >My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the >PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? > >Rich Copeland > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 11 Jun 97 09:28:06 UT Subject: Re: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 337 >I guess I don't mind the concept, but perhaps a "II" suffix would be in >order! >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >----------------------------------------------- > How about a bronze plaque in the vestibule informing the uneducated pubic of the August origin of the name? regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 11 Jun 97 09:44:59 UT Subject: RE: Erie to Emporium Passenger Trains Content-Length: 1642 Interesting. The Cafe car (I presume a PC70 cafe-coach) went from Washiongton to Erie and then from Erie to HARRISBURG. How did it get back to Washington? Or did the PRR scrap the cars in Haarisburg and buy or build new ones in Washington? :-) regards Andy Miller BTW were those really 10s-5db cars in 575/581? Or is that a type for 8S-5db ? - ------------ >typical make up of the trains, >north of Williamsport, as follows: > >575/581 Dominion/Northern Express > >Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet > >Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB > Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB >to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB >to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 >to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 > NYC - Emporium > >Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie > >Coaches Washington - Buffalo >to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 > >574/580 Dominion/Souther Express > >Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet > >Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB > Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB >from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB >from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 >from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 > >Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > >Coaches Buffalo - Washington > Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 >from 580 Erie - Harrisburg > >Hope this helps the folks modeling the P&E between Emporium and Erie. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 11 Jun 97 09:57:18 UT Subject: Re: Sacrilege? Or ignorance? Content-Length: 512 In a message dated 97-06-11 06:27:16 EDT, you write: << My question: are the Amtrak folks purposely dragging the memory of the PRR through the mud? Or are they just picking nice-sounding names? >> Amatrak has never had an original idea. so what do you think? Obviously, they are attempting to imply that they are duplicating the service of the PRR on the Broadway. That level of service and Amtrak are contradictory terms. If these are copyrighted names, how is Amtrak using them? Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 11 Jun 97 21:19:55 UT Subject: Odd Consist at York PA Content-Length: 621 While passing through the York PA area this morning I saw two CR road units moving two EMD switchers (one black) and a reddish colored baggage car through the yards under I-83. The CR units were pulling baggage car with the two switchers behind. Nothing else was coupled to them at the time of the spotting. To have slowed or stopped for a better look would have been courting disaster. (film at eleven about I-83 crash involving rail nut) When passing south in the evening there was no sign of them from what I could see. Anybody know what this was? Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 12 Jun 97 06:49:01 UT Subject: Re: Odd Consist at York PA Content-Length: 1149 From: hfitch@maranatha.net >While passing through the York PA area > this morning I saw two CR road units moving > two EMD switchers (one black) and a reddish colored > baggage car through the yards under I-83. > > The CR units were pulling baggage car with the > two switchers behind. Nothing else was coupled > to them at the time of the spotting. To have slowed > or stopped for a better look would have been courting > disaster. (film at eleven about I-83 crash involving rail nut) > > When passing south in the evening there was no > sign of them from what I could see. > > Anybody know what this was? Were they moving north or south? If north, they could have been going north to a bridge to cross to the RR Museum of Pa in Strasburg. If south, they could be going to the Liberty Limited in Stewartstown. I'm riding the Limited this Saturday; I'll check for new arrivals. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: maxrail@worldnet.att.net Date: 12 Jun 97 09:57:57 UT Subject: Camden & Amboy-Station plan Content-Length: 304 Hi everyone, Many of the stations on the Camden and Amboy/Pemberton & Hightstown/Camden & Burlington County were all of the same general design. Does anyone have a scale drawing of any of these stations? Richard F. Makse maxrail@worldnet.att.net rfmakse@lirr.org Member, HTML Writers Guild !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 12 Jun 97 10:12:55 UT Subject: Red Roofs Content-Length: 589 PRR steamers had their roofs, window frames , and tender decks painted red. At least some of them. Color fotos (being late in the history of photography and the PRR) tend to show the engines as all black. Or was this merely because the red was "weathered"? Did the PRR ever stop using the red paint? Someone (I don't recall who) suggested that the engines in the east were painted all black in later years but that the western PRR continued with the red roofs etc until the end of steam. Should my Eastern Region early 50s engine roofs be red or black? regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 12 Jun 97 11:22:33 UT Subject: RE: Erie to Emporium Passenger Trains Content-Length: 2467 Greetings to Andy and the group, I tried to follow the connections 574 had at Harrisburg. None of the trains listed indicated a cafe car except Train 636 which didn't go to Washington. I suspect that the cafe car was dead headed from Harrisburg to Washington for 575 of the following day. Both the April 1956 _Official Guide..._ and a PRR April 1956 timetable listed the cars as 10 S 5 DB. In the PRR timetable there was no description of a section. Wasn't a section one of those curtained open sleeping things? Weren't sections gone by the 50s? Did they use the term section and roomette interchangably? The timetable listed some of the cars as 10S 5 DB and others 10 R 5 DB. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 09:44 AM 6/11/97 UT, you wrote: >Interesting. The Cafe car (I presume a PC70 cafe-coach) went from Washiongton to Erie and then from Erie to HARRISBURG. How did it get back to Washington? >Or did the PRR scrap the cars in Haarisburg and buy or build new ones in Washington? :-) > >regards >Andy Miller > >BTW were those really 10s-5db cars in 575/581? Or is that a type for 8S-5db ? >- ------------ >>typical make up of the trains, >>north of Williamsport, as follows: >> >>575/581 Dominion/Northern Express >> >>Lounge Car Washington - Buffalo 8 S Buffet >> >>Sleeping Cars Philly - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB >> Washington - Buffalo 10 S 5 DB >>to 581 Washington - Erie 10 S 3 DB >>to 581 NYC - Erie 8S 5 DB from Train #1 >>to 581 NYC - Erie 10 S 3 DB from Train #1 >> NYC - Emporium >> >>Cafe Car to 581 Washington - Erie >> >>Coaches Washington - Buffalo >>to 581 Philly - Erie from Train 615 >> >>574/580 Dominion/Souther Express >> >>Lounge Car Buffalo - Washington 8 S Buffet >> >>Sleeping Cars Buffalo - Philly 10 s 5 DB >> Buffalo - Washington 10 S 5 DB >>from 580 Erie - Washington 10 S 3 DB >>from 580 Erie - NYC 8 S 5 DB via train #20 >>from 580 Erie - NYC 10 S 3 DB via Train #20 >> >>Cafe Car from 580 Erie - Harrisburg >> >>Coaches Buffalo - Washington >> Buffalo - Philly via Train #36 >>from 580 Erie - Harrisburg >> >>Hope this helps the folks modeling the P&E between Emporium and Erie. >> >>Drew R. McGhee >>Altoona, PA >> >> > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 12 Jun 97 11:54:27 UT Subject: RE: Erie to Emporium Passenger Trains Content-Length: 1466 >>Andy Miller (me) asked: >> >>were those really 10s-5db cars in 575/581? Or is that a type for 8S-5db ? >Greetings to Andy and the group, - -------- > >Both the April 1956 _Official Guide..._ and a PRR April 1956 timetable >listed the cars as 10 S 5 DB. In the PRR timetable there was no description >of a section. Wasn't a section one of those curtained open sleeping things? >Weren't sections gone by the 50s? Did they use the term section and >roomette interchangably? The timetable listed some of the cars as 10S 5 DB >and others 10 R 5 DB. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA > - ------ Yes, sections were "those curtained open sleeping things". One section took the same space as one roomette but accomodated two passengers> Sections were still very poular in the eary 50s. They were the cheapest sleeping accomodations and many companies (including UncleSam) would only reimburse a business traveller for the cost of a section lower berth. The D&RGW actuially built brand new, Budd fluted, streamlined 14 section sleepers (ALPINE series)! Both 10rmt 5dbr (CASCADE series -prewar streamlined) and 8sec 5dbr(POPLAR series - HW) were common configurations in the 50s. But since section cars required large rest rooms at the ends of each car since sections had no private toilet facilities, and since a section and a roomette took the same amount of floor space, a 10sec 5dbr car would have to be about 95 feet long!! Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: railpix@philly.infi.net Date: 12 Jun 97 17:07:43 UT Subject: SITE-UPDATE Content-Length: 1075 Hello all stations; I have added the following new pictures to my site; -Amtrak GP38 #722 -Amtrak TLM -- -Amtrak CF7 #586 -D+H SW8 #6702 -Amtrak 944 in Northeast Direct Paint -Last Miss America train on Amtrak -Atlantic City NJ Rail Terminal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----RAILPIX PAGE---------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/railpix.html ****************************************************** ---------Voice Mail-- 1-888-947-8542 --------------- ---New Free RAILPIX RAILCARD Page----- ---{Send Free RailCards}--- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html *************************************** Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel, is a train coming the other way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 13 Jun 97 13:33:30 UT Subject: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 857 In the recent issue of "The Telegraph", published by 1 Railroad Avenue, they state: > Bachmann will also be rerunning their HO Spectrum line of passenger > cars. New numbers and car names will be available. PRR fans will have > both the regular and H.G. (High Gloss) paint schemes - they are doing > both. The price will be higher but no firm word yet on availability. Is the difference between "regular" and "high gloss" a reference to the model's finish only, or is it a reference to a prototype PRR paint job? Which would I want? BTW: The full announcement can be found at http://prr.dsop.com/model/index.html along with other HO modeling news. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 13 Jun 97 14:14:23 UT Subject: RE: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 773 . . . >> Bachmann will also be rerunning their HO Spectrum line of passenger >> cars. New numbers and car names will be available. PRR fans will have >> both the regular and H.G. (High Gloss) paint schemes - they are doing >> both. . . . >Is the difference between "regular" and "high gloss" a reference to the >model's finish only, or is it a reference to a prototype PRR paint job? >Which would I want? > >Jerry Britton, - ------- I believe the "regular" finish is the post war - Tuscan body, deluxe 3-stripe, black trucks; the "high gloss" finish is the 1920 scheme with a Tuscan body, the gold stripes outlined in black and the green trucks. This is from casual observstion and memory. I don't own any of either. regards, Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 13 Jun 97 14:44:40 UT Subject: RE: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 1024 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > >> Bachmann will also be rerunning their HO Spectrum line of passenger > >> cars. New numbers and car names will be available. PRR fans will have > >> both the regular and H.G. (High Gloss) paint schemes - they are doing > >> both. . . . > > > >Is the difference between "regular" and "high gloss" a reference to the > >model's finish only, or is it a reference to a prototype PRR paint job? > >Which would I want? > > I believe the "regular" finish is the post war - Tuscan body, deluxe 3-stripe, black trucks; the "high gloss" finish > is the 1920 scheme with a Tuscan body, the gold stripes outlined in black and the green trucks. Andy, so surprised to hear from you on this subject! ;-) Guess I want the "regular" finish (modeling "Liberty Limited" in 1943 and 1953). --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 13 Jun 97 14:46:03 UT Subject: Re: Call for layout info Content-Length: 446 From: KEMACPRR@aol.com > Central Region Northern Division:...Layout size is 32x80 Is it safe to say this is a club layout? > System one DCC is used for train operations. How do you like System One? This is the DCC system I am leaning towards. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 13 Jun 97 15:17:15 UT Subject: RE: Call for layout info Content-Length: 365 >Central Region Northern Division: Railroad currently in operation. Modeling >the PRR's Harrisburg-Buffalo line circa 1962-1968. Layout size is 32x80 >double deck. . . . A 950' mainline mostly double track > Where is this layout, and do you allow visitors? It sounds phenominal. 950 feet = almost 16 HO miles of main! regards Andy Miller > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jer@smellycat.com Date: 13 Jun 97 17:30:04 UT Subject: PRR truck...almost... Content-Length: 880 On the way home from work tonight, I was stopped at a light, and saw a semi-trailer truck also waiting at the light. The cab of the truck was painted a dark green color, almost like "Brunswick" green, and the truck had 6 (I counted) gold stripes which ran from the back of the cab, across the door, to the front. There was no company name on the truck, but it sure looked good! If the PRR was around today and still had its Pennsylvania Truck Lines subsidiary, that would have been a good choice for a truck paint scheme. Tuscan Red would have been even better, though.... Later, -Jer -- Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 13 Jun 97 17:46:10 UT Subject: Can't contain myself Content-Length: 541 Wanted to share my excitement... My wife DID get me the Bowser K4 deluxe kit for our anniversary (10th)! Thanks to all who provided me with info over the past week. Once I read through the instructions a few times, I will likely ask questions to a few of you or the list. Thanks again. 8-) ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zeolla@erols.com Date: 13 Jun 97 17:48:08 UT Subject: Re: PRR truck...almost... Content-Length: 987 Too bad you couldn't get a picture!!! jer@smellycat.com wrote: > > On the way home from work tonight, I was stopped at a light, and saw > a semi-trailer truck also waiting at the light. The cab of the truck > was painted a dark green color, almost like "Brunswick" green, and > the truck had 6 (I counted) gold stripes which ran from the back of the > cab, across the door, to the front. > > There was no company name on the truck, but it sure looked good! If > the PRR was around today and still had its Pennsylvania Truck Lines > subsidiary, that would have been a good choice for a truck paint > scheme. Tuscan Red would have been even better, though.... > > Later, > -Jer > > -- > Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam > mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday > http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore > Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 13 Jun 97 17:56:06 UT Subject: Re: Can't contain myself Content-Length: 941 Jerry, When you get her together, couple up to an HO model of the Pennsy "Queen Mary" flat and haul a brick around your layout! Congratulations on your 10th! Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: jerry@dsop.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Can't contain myself > Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 1:46 PM > > > Wanted to share my excitement... > > My wife DID get me the Bowser K4 deluxe kit for our anniversary (10th)! > > Thanks to all who provided me with info over the past week. Once I read > through the instructions a few times, I will likely ask questions to a few > of you or the list. Thanks again. 8-) > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 13 Jun 97 17:58:58 UT Subject: Re: PRR truck...almost... Content-Length: 1365 There is a truck lines that uses a keystone on their truck doors. I think Ward Trucking out of Altoona has a Keystone as well but no PRR colors. Harry Fitch ---------- > From: zeolla@erols.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: PRR truck...almost... > Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 1:48 PM > > Too bad you couldn't get a picture!!! > > jer@smellycat.com wrote: > > > > On the way home from work tonight, I was stopped at a light, and saw > > a semi-trailer truck also waiting at the light. The cab of the truck > > was painted a dark green color, almost like "Brunswick" green, and > > the truck had 6 (I counted) gold stripes which ran from the back of the > > cab, across the door, to the front. > > > > There was no company name on the truck, but it sure looked good! If > > the PRR was around today and still had its Pennsylvania Truck Lines > > subsidiary, that would have been a good choice for a truck paint > > scheme. Tuscan Red would have been even better, though.... > > > > Later, > > -Jer > > > > -- > > Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam > > mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday > > http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore > > Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 13 Jun 97 18:03:18 UT Subject: Re: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 1541 Jerry, I've got a set of the first issue Bachmann PRR cars and they look pretty good. Didn't someone from the list members give some notes an equipping these with Kadee couplers? I still have to do all of mine. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Genesis 1:1 ---------- > From: britton@pit-magnus.com > To: Members of group > Subject: RE: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars > Date: Friday, June 13, 1997 10:44 AM > > > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > > > >> Bachmann will also be rerunning their HO Spectrum line of passenger > > >> cars. New numbers and car names will be available. PRR fans will have > > >> both the regular and H.G. (High Gloss) paint schemes - they are doing > > >> both. . . . > > > > > >Is the difference between "regular" and "high gloss" a reference to the > > >model's finish only, or is it a reference to a prototype PRR paint job? > > >Which would I want? > > > > I believe the "regular" finish is the post war - Tuscan body, deluxe > 3-stripe, black trucks; the "high gloss" finish > > is the 1920 scheme with a Tuscan body, the gold stripes outlined in black > and the green trucks. > > Andy, so surprised to hear from you on this subject! ;-) > > Guess I want the "regular" finish (modeling "Liberty Limited" in 1943 and > 1953). > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLMower@aol.com Date: 13 Jun 97 20:24:33 UT Subject: Re: PRR truck...almost... Content-Length: 78 Shumaker Trucking has aa green keystone on the door of their trucks Randy !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 13 Jun 97 21:42:13 UT Subject: Keystones are everywhere. Content-Length: 282 Since this group is gone "Keystone Nuts" anyway.... anyone not using Heinz Ketchup should revamp their condiment purchasing habits. All kitchen tables of SPF's should be decorated with Keystone labels on all the containers. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: djwartel@ix.netcom.com Date: 13 Jun 97 23:08:46 UT Subject: Re: Can't contain myself Content-Length: 499 >Wanted to share my excitement... > >My wife DID get me the Bowser K4 deluxe kit for our anniversary (10th)! > >Thanks to all who provided me with info over the past week. Once I read >through the instructions a few times, I will likely ask questions to a few >of you or the list. Thanks again. 8-) Congratulations Jerry! I hope you enjoy the K4. I have an H9s that I am waiting to get the time to try. I guess we could compare notes. Dave Wartell djwartel@ix.netcom.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: 14 Jun 97 00:17:10 UT Subject: Re: Call for layout info Content-Length: 221 Railroad is located in Downingtown Pa. And yes we do allow visitors. Railroad will be open for the NMRA MER Division convention in November. If you're in the area and would like to visit let me know via 610-458-8698. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 14 Jun 97 11:39:11 UT Subject: "KC" Update Content-Length: 410 "KC" now offers free classified advertising for individuals buying/selling PRR memorabilia or models. I've also added many new vendor links that I never had before. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 14 Jun 97 11:49:24 UT Subject: RE: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 1202 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > >Is the difference between "regular" and "high gloss" a reference to the > >model's finish only, or is it a reference to a prototype PRR paint job? > >Which would I want? > > I believe the "regular" finish is the post war - Tuscan body, deluxe 3-stripe, black trucks; > the "high gloss" finish > is the 1920 scheme with a Tuscan body, the gold stripes outlined in black and the green > trucks. My new K4 8-) was accompanied by Standard Hobby Supply's 4/15/97 catalog. Page 16-17 sheds some light on the Bachman subject. Based on what they still have in stock: High Gloss: Pullman (doesn't specify model...12-1?) Pre War: Combine Coach #1703 Coach #3323 Diner Coach #1704 Observation Post War: Combine Coach #4533 Coach #3748 Diner Coach #3816 Observation Seems there must have been three series of cars from Bachman Spectrum! Andy...anyone...care to take a stab at the classes? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 15 Jun 97 13:07:48 UT Subject: "Liberty Limited" dinner train Content-Length: 2042 Last night the Mrs. and I rode the "Liberty Limited" dinner train out of New Freedom, Pa. I am pleased to "highly" recommend it. There were reservations for about 100. They were expecting 200 for Father's Day. Capacity is around 220. We rode a "Murder on the Limited" excursion...$10 more than dinner only...we paid $49 per person. It WAS worth it. The entertainment, atmosphere, and meal were all great. While we had a "murder" theme, they also do simple dinners, a new cabaret theme, and comedy. Menu featured authentic railroad recipes: "Shrimp Dip", Pennsylvania Railroad; "House Salad", Soo Line Railroad; choice of "Prime Rib", Missouri Pacific, "Chicken Chesapeake", Chicago North West, and "Mahi Mahi Fish", Lahaina, Kaanapali and Pacific; and "Chef's Specialty Dessert", Northern Central Railway. I had the chicken; wife had the prime rib. Both excellent. Dessert was choice of Apple Crumb cake or Black Velvet cake. Latter was excellent. Ride was four hours round trip. Their business car was on the tail end. Train was pushed northward. As most stayed in their seats waiting for dinner, we went to the business car's open platform which, since we were being pushed, offered a locomotive view of the oncoming track. Got a picture of the Holland Tunnel as we approached and entered. The only tunnel on the old NC line. Surprisingly, the entire NC line from New Freedom north to York is open. The "Liberty Limited" goes to within two miles of the York city limit. Thereafter the trackage is owned by the Ma & Pa. The LL wants to buy the last few miles, but the M&P want too much money. Anyway, I highly recommend this "attraction". The Mrs. isn't big on trains and she loved it and wants to return. UNRELATED: Marysville train meet (today) was a bust. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: 15 Jun 97 13:45:50 UT Subject: Re: Keystones are everywhere. Content-Length: 499 At the last PRRT&HS-Philly meeting, the entertainment was a fellow with about 100 slides of the keystone logo in places where it can be found today. Only a few were on old freight cars, etc. And I would say less than half were on railroad property, or abandoned railroad property. The rest were on restaurants, bars, in store windows.....it went on and on. A fine psychological "pick-me-up" for a group which was in a blue funk about all the Conrail/CSX/NS silliness! Rich Copeland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 15 Jun 97 15:04:55 UT Subject: Re: Call for layout info Content-Length: 1779 I've posted this. What is your name (I only have an e-mail address) and what is the name of the club? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: KEMACPRR@aol.com To: Members of group Subject: Call for layout info Date: 13 Jun 97 14:27:31 UT Central Region Northern Division: Railroad currently in operation. Modeling the PRR's Harrisburg-Buffalo line circa 1962-1968. Layout size is 32x80 double deck.Construction started in 1992 currently 95% of track is in service and signalling is the next major project. A 950' mainline mostly double track controlled by two dispatchers "Kase" on the eastern end controls main line trackage from just west of Rockville to "Lyons" located across the river from Williamsport. Also included in "Kases" territory are the Shamokin Br., Selinsgrove Br., Wilkes Barre Br., Williamsport Br. and southern end of the Elmira Br. The "Lyco" dispatcher located in Williamsport controls the main line from "Lyons" to Delevan NY. located 40 miles east of Buffalo. Also in "Lyco's" territory are the west end of the Bald Eagle Br. and the Driftwood Sec. Helpers are used on most trains over the 2.7% Keating Summit grade with the helper operations based in Renovo instead of Emporium as the real PRR did. Operating sessions require 20 people and are held once a month. Portions of the Reading RR , New York Central and EL are also included in the operations as is a large 200 sq.ft. steel mill ficticiously located in Port Alleghany Pa. System one DCC is used for train operations. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ptrmgtsvc@juno.com Date: 15 Jun 97 18:02:57 UT Subject: Bayhead Loop Content-Length: 350 Does anybody out there know what the largest engine to go around the Bayhead Loop was? Thanks MEA ______________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY PTRMgtSvc@Juno.Com Management Services 1-800-484-7673-8270 Michael E Allen MEAllen@Juno.Com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: 15 Jun 97 18:23:28 UT Subject: Re: Call for layout info Content-Length: 1062 No this is not a club layout it's a private one. I'm very happy with the System 1 . I had the Lenz DCC system for about 3 years and outgrew the address capabilities . When Lenz announced their upgrade I waited to see what it included, the main items I were looking for were the ability to mu more than 2 units and the long address ( using the unit # as the address ) . They only went part way with the upgrade so I went looking for other manufacturers. I tested both the Chief from Digitrax and the Sys 1 for about 3 weeks apiece. I liked the Sys 1 handsets better they were easier to use and had a lot shorter learning curve for operators to get used to the equiptment. My recommendation to anyone who is considering DCC is to actually run trains with the system as the feel of the system is sometimes more important than the technical aspects. I use Digitrax, Sys 1 , North Coast, and Lenz decoders. There are about 135 in service at the present time. If you would like to visit sometime give me a call at 610-458-8698 and we can set one up. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 15 Jun 97 21:28:41 UT Subject: "KC" Request for files Content-Length: 849 I have posted information on subscriber's model railroads as submitted to date. There are a few from before that have not yet been resubmitted: Dave Wartel's layout, someone modeling the Philadelphia Terminal Division, etc. If anyone wants to add info about their layout, please do so. Thanks. I am now ready for editors to resubmit branch histories. I will begin reposting these on Wednesday evening...which is set aside for Web editing. Mark Bej and Bruce Smith: I will pick up the Port Road and CV histories from your sites. You needn't resubmit. Thanks, all, reconstruction is going well. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 97 00:29:18 UT Subject: Layout info what is name? Content-Length: 140 Jerry sent my reply before reading your 2nd message. Name is Ken McCorry for the General Manager of the Central Region Northern Division. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 16 Jun 97 01:28:02 UT Subject: Re: "Liberty Limited" dinner train Content-Length: 568 > oncoming track. Got a picture of the Holland Tunnel as we approached > and entered. The only tunnel on the old NC line. > Think you mean the *Howard* Tunnel, Jerry. BTW, how does the train's appearance come off these days? I stopped by there a few months back on my way through from DC to Harrisburg and to be honest, it looked like dog's breakfast then. No two adjacent cars seemed to match (wildly differing paint schemes), and the storm-window conversion on one car gave it a, what's the word? -- unique look. Dan Cupper Romans 10:9 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 16 Jun 97 06:55:30 UT Subject: Re: "Liberty Limited" dinner train Content-Length: 2077 From: cupper@ibm.net > > oncoming track. Got a picture of the Holland Tunnel as we approached > > and entered. The only tunnel on the old NC line. > > > > Think you mean the *Howard* Tunnel, Jerry. Duh! (Typed the message in a hurry when the wife wasn't looking...she accuses me of having an Internet addiction!) > BTW, how does the train's appearance come off these days? I stopped > by there a few months back on my way through from DC to Harrisburg > and to be honest, it looked like dog's breakfast then. No two > adjacent cars seemed to match (wildly differing paint schemes), and > the storm-window conversion on one car gave it a, what's the word? -- > unique look. Still doesn't look that good. The train's been in operation for a year now. They had a lot of debt to pay off on the 20+ miles of RoW, to which they are adding much ballast. Line seems in pretty decent shape, considering Conrail wanted to abandon it. Most cars look pretty decent on the inside, though there was no attempt to provide vintage tables and seating. However, tablecloths and place settings are first rate. The business car was in great shape inside. Outsides of cars vary. Some look pretty bad. Others have decent paint, but boring...though it may have been the original scheme for the car. The only PRR car, Catalpa Falls, has not been redone inside. It is used as a staging area for the actors and actresses. Outside it bears Tuscan paint without frills...no gold stripes, etc. I'd really like to see this car fixed up. Spoke with the owner. He's got 13 cars in service. I noted that there are many more in the yard, so he's got some work ahead of him. There is a "movement" to restore the station. They are having "Northern Central Heritage Days" in August. I will post more info on this shortly. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://www.dsop.com/britton/railroad/index.html Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: robs@protocol.zycad.com Date: 16 Jun 97 11:01:07 UT Subject: Re: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 926 There were three runs so far of Spectrum cars that I know of. There were two runs of the post war cars with Tuscan Red, yellow striping and black underframes. The second run of these is the one that Standard has in stock. Both runs were identical except for the car numbers. I've heard complaints that the color Spectrum used represents a very faded Tuscan red. The High Gloss cars are the same cars with a pre-war "High Gloss" paint job. Tuscan red (not faded), gold striping, and olive green underbody and trucks. Sharp looking if the era's right for you! These cars have metal trucks which run much better than the plastic ones on the post war cars (the other ones have wipers for the wheels which kill the rolling quality of the cars.) As for classes Coach P70 Combine PB70 Diner D78 Observation Z74 (hope I didn't botch these up!) I didn't know that they made a pullman... Rob !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 16 Jun 97 11:02:10 UT Subject: Weekend Walk on the Pennsy Content-Length: 3161 Greetings All, This weekend, I took an 8x10 photo that was loaned to me for use on my 'RRs of Madison County (Indiana)' web site and went in search of the location. The picture was of 'Delco Tower', the control point on the Pennsy for all rail traffic into and out of Delco- Remy division of GM here in Anderson Indiana. I knew roughly where it needed to be because of was because of some of the buildings in the background. If I am going to put it up on my site, I want to know where it was. :-) The first attempt put me onto some streets that I had never been on before. Quite a mix. I found that more of the Pennsy still exists in Anderson than I thought. I stood on the old main line in two different spots, but neither matched up with the photo. Close, but not right. After going home, I decided to make a trip downtown to our library to talk to a couple of the local historians there. On the way, I decided to make one more attempt on my own. Hey, I must have driven by Delco Tower many times when I was a young pup. Back through the back streets and down around the 'Quartz Glass' and back out. The Philadelphia Quartz Glass plant HAD to be in this picture. Back out to the main streets again and then near a spot where the PRR and the NYC had crossed and 5 streets came together in an odd configuration, I pulled into a parking lot and started to walk the abandoned rail bed. I stopped on the 'tracks' and looked back down the line toward town and then turning around, I held up the picture. The ties and the concrete switch stand mounts were still visible at my feet and on the photo was the scene that I was looking at as I stood on the site of the tower and the speeder building next to it. The 67 Caddy had been parked right there about 10 feet from where I was and to my left was the parking lot where I was parked and where the owner of the property was getting out of his car to see what the guy with the picture was doing. To his inquiry, I replied that I was visiting history. He seemed to enjoy looking at the photo and realizing what had been here before. He pointed to a single line pole with heavy cross-arms and a few remaining glass insulators on it and explained how he had sold some of the insulators. "This pole?" I asked as I pointed out the tips of the cross-arms in the photo. No doubt about it. I had found the spot and I had, indeed, passed by it many times when I was younger. I knew that something was missing there, but I never could remember what. Now I know and a small bit of history had fallen into place and into my memory. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 16 Jun 97 11:32:40 UT Subject: Re: Weekend Walk on the Pennsy Content-Length: 587 From: rhensley@ecicnet.org > the > owner of the property was getting out of his car to see what the > guy with the picture was doing. > > To his inquiry, I replied that I was visiting history. He seemed to > enjoy looking at the photo and realizing what had been here before. Ever see "Touched By An Angel"? Perhaps you were visited by "The ghost of PRR Past"! 8-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 16 Jun 97 11:35:37 UT Subject: Re: Weekend Walk on the Pennsy Content-Length: 958 > Caddy had been parked right there about 10 feet from where I was > and to my left was the parking lot where I was parked and where the > owner of the property was getting out of his car to see what the > guy with the picture was doing. > > To his inquiry, I replied that I was visiting history. He seemed to > enjoy looking at the photo and realizing what had been here before. > He pointed to a single line pole with heavy cross-arms and a few > remaining glass insulators on it and explained how he had sold > some of the insulators. "This pole?" I asked as I pointed out the > tips of the cross-arms in the photo. ... A trick I learned from Jon Roma. On railfanning trips, it helps to take relevant "goodies" along, not just a camera. This breaks the ice very nicely, prevents calls to the police, and other such generally favorable acts... -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 16 Jun 97 11:58:38 UT Subject: RE: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 999 > >My new K4 8-) was accompanied by Standard Hobby Supply's 4/15/97 catalog. >Page 16-17 sheds some light on the Bachman subject. Based on what they still >have in stock: > >High Gloss: >Pullman (doesn't specify model...12-1?) > >Pre War: >Combine >Coach #1703 >Coach #3323 >Diner >Coach #1704 >Observation > >Post War: >Combine >Coach #4533 >Coach #3748 >Diner >Coach #3816 >Observation > >Seems there must have been three series of cars from Bachman Spectrum! > >Andy...anyone...care to take a stab at the classes? >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >----------------------------------------------- > I'm lost now also. As I said, I own only one (postwar- I believe) Bachmann P-70. So I don't know now what the THREE Schemes are. Could the Postwar be Dulux Gold and the Pre-war Gold leaf? Bachmann does not make a Pullman! Could this be an IHC car? Or oare they callong something else a Pullman? regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 16 Jun 97 12:12:57 UT Subject: Re: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 497 As I recall, about two years ago Bachmann announced that they were working on a HW Pullman. They showed a foto of a single vestibule Betterment cars - a 6-6 I think. It was not a pilot, rather a brass model which they painted. Could thei "pullman" be it? I doubt very serieously if Bachman would release such a new item with no fanfare. I does seem odd for it to just show up at onl;y one dealer's!! I still vote for a misprint or misnomer on the dealer's part. regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 97 12:42:14 UT Subject: Re: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 541 I believe the Pullman mentioned is the one that Bachman has promised for about 5 years now. It's supposed to be available later this year in a variety of Pullman schemes the green and two tone gray are one's that come to mind. The one shown in the adds had the air conditioning duct work on the roof . It was a 12-1 by the way.I see that Life-Like is offering their trucks and couplers as a seperate items now maybe Bachman will take the hint and offer their pass. trucks as well. The PRR trucks would be a godsend for PRR modelers. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 16 Jun 97 13:53:51 UT Subject: Re: Bachman Spectrum Passenger Cars Content-Length: 278 I see that Life-Like is offering their trucks and >couplers as a seperate items now maybe Bachman will take the hint and offer >their pass. trucks as well. The PRR trucks would be a godsend for PRR >modelers. > - ----- As would the K4 tender! regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 16 Jun 97 20:12:50 UT Subject: Two more PDF docs at "KC" Content-Length: 574 Thanks to Dave Wartel, I have posted two more Acrobat (PDF) documents at "KC". Both are available via the Web or FTP. The new documents are: 1) 1946 Annual Report 2) "Through Freight Train Schedules Between Principal Points", dated February 1, 1952. BTW: Will be back online at higher speed Tuesday evening. Delay due to boneheads at US Robotics. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 16 Jun 97 22:25:43 UT Subject: Passenger Class Cross Reference Content-Length: 672 Folks, especially Andy Miller: I have begun recreation of my Pennsy Passenger Class cross reference table which indicates appropriateness of available models. The URL is http://prr.dsop.com/passops/passclass_xref.html . Note that it is not yet complete. Clicking on a major class (P70) will open up another page with specs, unit rosters, and subclasses (P70, P70BR, P70R), etc. Please check it out, make comments, make corrections, etc. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobp@tsc.com Date: 16 Jun 97 23:35:30 UT Subject: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 318 Is this list active? I tried to subscribe several weeks ago but never got a confirmation. I tried again tonite and got a reply that I was already subscribed. Haven't seen any traffic yet?! -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com, http://www.tsc.com/~bobp) Technology Service Corp. Bloomington, Indiana USA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: geshick@velocity.net Date: 17 Jun 97 00:34:32 UT Subject: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 842 Earlier this year I bought the Spectrum K4 & the heavyweight passenger set. (The local dealer did say that a Pullman set was forthcoming.) Of course the K4 slips badly (even with 3 cars). Has anyone tried to add weight or rubber tires, & if so, how well did it work? Also, I just received my order of blank checks from Checks In The Mail. I ordered the Transportation design, which includes a passenger train. The locomotive appears to have a Belpaire firebox. It's tough to make out details, but it looks like a 4-6-2 (#73116), & has a wide rectangular plate about half way up the front. The tender is about the same height as the cab, and I don't see a cow-catcher. Just curious to know if anyone has seen these checks, & can i.d. the locomotive. with (#73116) -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA e-mail: geshick@velocity.net !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CBlood59@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 08:02:27 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 480 Bob, I just subscribed yesterday. I am an N-scale model railroader who has only recently developed an interest in prototypical operation, particularly PRR, so I'm sure that I won't have much to offer on this list. Indeed, you and I may be the list. I was hoping to learn from the postings of others. Maybe we can talk it up on the model railroad newsgroup, and spark some interest that way. Let me know if you have any other ideas. Curt Blood cblood59@aol.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 17 Jun 97 08:37:24 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 1124 From: CBlood59@aol.com > I just subscribed yesterday. I am an N-scale model railroader who has only > recently developed an interest in prototypical operation, particularly PRR, > so I'm sure that I won't have much to offer on this list. Indeed, you and I > may be the list. I was hoping to learn from the postings of others. Maybe > we can talk it up on the model railroad newsgroup, and spark some interest > that way. Let me know if you have any other ideas. Yes, the list is active and working!!! Many get on this list thinking they won't have much to offer, but everyone does. Learn from the list. In many aspects, I was "green" when I started this list. The time will come when you will feel comfortable "chiming in". As for list traffic, the past 24 hours has been relatively slow. There are usually about two dozen posts a day. As of this morning (I happened to check), there were 76 subscribers. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 17 Jun 97 09:22:15 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 1062 > In many aspects, I was "green" when I started > this list. The time will come when you will feel comfortable "chiming in". So, did anyone else read this and think Jerry was telling us he started this list as a Central fan hoping to be converted? I thought I had a source for 5 stripe P2K HO E8's to share with all of you, but I was wrong. Oh well. Does anyone know if the Trainmaster diesels owned by the Pennsy ever had a Keystone on each side of the short nose like the Athearn does? I can't find any pictures showing it that way so I assume not. Also, aside from moving the fans together and toward the end of the long hood, removing several of the groups of louvers along the top edge of the body sides, what else would need to be done to the Athearn model to get it to be "correct" AFA what the Pennsy owned? I'm tempted to do that and say close enough; I'm splicing in the fans from a Bachmann H-16-44. Cutting through that thick Athearn shell to remove the old fans has given me a pinched nerve in one of my fingertips:-( -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 17 Jun 97 11:10:10 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 1483 > To be correct, Derrick, you'd have join me in modeling the Panhandle in > Central Ohio. All six Pennsy Trainmasters were used primarily for transfer > duties in and around Columbus' Buckeye and Grogan yards. We SPFss hereabouts > take the amount of FM equipment assigned to this area as a sign of how near > (or far) this area was to the hearts of the denizens of Broad Street. All of > the diesel shifters I've seen in Pennsy pictures from SW Ohio are FM H-10-44s > or H-12-44s. I've seen pictures of the Trainmasters and other FM power in the vicinity of Johnstown PA, generally in and around (East) Conemaugh. I can get references if it really matters. > I checked my photos of Pennsy's six Trainmasters and none have Athearn's > short nose Keystone. However, none of the pix are from the final years of the > Pennsy when small keystones were replacing the large Pennsylvania lettering > on long hoods. Of course, these were lettered Pennsylvania on the long hoods so presumably would also be wrong for the later years. Also, a while back I had mentioned that I had a Baldwin freight Shark decorated with the "worm", and wondered if any of the lightning stripe gang had made it to the roster of the colossus, and people seemed to come to a "no" consensus. This doesn't disprove that but the proposed roster in Pennsy Power 2 mentions the Central's sharks being held over in the numbering scheme, so it's possible, I suppose... -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 17 Jun 97 13:41:47 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 913 From: shadow@dementia.org > > In many aspects, I was "green" when I started > > this list. The time will come when you will feel comfortable "chiming in". > > So, did anyone else read this and think Jerry was telling us he started this > list as a Central fan hoping to be converted? Oh, a funny man! I meant I didn't know squat when I started this list. Now I know squat plus a little! The downside is that knowledge is expensive. I have a set of ABA F7s in Tuscan that now I can't use! Same with a six car set of Athearn streamline passenger cars. Instead of buying $5-8 car kits, now I am spending $20+. Maybe I was better off stupid! BTW: Anyone need an Athearn PC wide vision caboose? ! ;-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 17 Jun 97 13:42:34 UT Subject: Assembling a Bowser Content-Length: 1065 I've read the directions for assembly of my K4 kit and am less overwhelmed than I originally was...the good news is that I expected to be overwhelmed. It now looks somewhat "easier" (if that is the right word) than I had expected. I have a few questions, and I know there are some Bowser jockeys out there who can help. I've already read the "tips" page on Wes Barris' site. The kit mentions using a file and steel wool to remove flash. Aren't there different grades of steel wool? What grade should I get? What type of glue/contact cement is recommended? Paint: I don't have an airbrush, though I could probably talk someone into using theirs. Any problem brush painting? What brand and color of paints? I believe a week or so ago we established that most of the red roofs were on "lines west". This K4 will be heading a 1940s "Liberty Limited". Thanks. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 17 Jun 97 14:08:58 UT Subject: RE: Assembling a Bowser Content-Length: 1631 Jerry said: >I've read the directions for assembly of my K4 kit and am less overwhelmed >than I originally was...the good news is that I expected to be overwhelmed. >It now looks somewhat "easier" (if that is the right word) than I had >expected. > >I have a few questions, and I know there are some Bowser jockeys out there >who can help. I've already read the "tips" page on Wes Barris' site. > >The kit mentions using a file and steel wool to remove flash. Aren't there >different grades of steel wool? What grade should I get? > >What type of glue/contact cement is recommended? > >Paint: I don't have an airbrush, though I could probably talk someone into >using theirs. Any problem brush painting? What brand and color of paints? I >believe a week or so ago we established that most of the red roofs were on >"lines west". This K4 will be heading a 1940s "Liberty Limited". > >Thanks. >--------------------------------------------- Jerry, 1. Be VERY careful with steel wool! It will leave small steel shards everywhere and they ar death to the motor whose magnet will attract them! Keep the motor (and for that matter the gears) far from the area where the steel wool polishing is done. 2. I'd recommend a good gap-filling ACC glue. 3. We never did resolve the Red Roof issue. The Lines West suggest was just hearsay on my part and none of our experts either confirmed or denied that rumour. 4. By all means find your friend with the air brush, or take your time with the kit (superdetail it?) and drop a hint to your wife as to what you want for Christmas! regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 17 Jun 97 15:00:21 UT Subject: Athearn Fs (Was:Test... Is this list active?) Content-Length: 1094 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org (Andrew S. Miller) >The PRR did run a few FP7s in Tuscan 5 stripe. Just consider your F7s as shorties ;-) Not! > Or, when your wife gets you that air brush for Christmas, you have your first repainting task. > Before you paint them (Brunswick - sorry Dark Locomotive Green with one Dulux Gold stripe) don't forget the > radio antennae and the lifting pads on the nose. Thats what makes 'em Pennsy! You forgot to mention the windshield replacements that are available! > Unless you feel up to kit bashing by then, I have another piece of disheartening news about the PRR Fs: They all > had the "passenger pilot"; a straight drop designed for coupler doors and lacking the "tuck under". Athearn had offered the same units in freight paint. How accurate (considering) were their bodies? I'm more likely to buy new bodies than to paint them! --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 17 Jun 97 15:24:02 UT Subject: RE: Athearn Fs (Was:Test... Is this list active?) Content-Length: 761 .. . > >Athearn had offered the same units in freight paint. How accurate >(considering) were their bodies? I'm more likely to buy new bodies than to >paint them! >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton - ---- Jerry, As I recall Athearn only offered the 5 stripe green scheme. This was never used on EMD locos. It appeared only on the Baldwin Sharks. The EMD Fs (except for the aforementioned FPs) all had the single stripe scheme. I'm sure some after market body ainter must have them avalable. I repaint all of my own stuff, so I never paid much attention to those folks. regards Andy Miller BTW The FPs ran with standard F7B units, some of which were painted in Tuscan 5 stripe to match. So your B unit's OK. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 15:25:10 UT Subject: Re: Checks & # 73116 Content-Length: 515 NEVER HEARD OF A U.S. LOCOMOTIVE WITH A 5 DIGIT ROAD NUMER - MUST BE EUROPEAN - OR CHINESE (first two digits would be class number followed by sequence number) Ok ONLY the PRR had locomotives with five digit numbers - there were a couple of electrics, or gas electrics, 10001 - 10003 and, I've read, that occasionally a "1" was placed in front of the 4 digit road number of an engine scheduled for scrap - but will stand by statement that original of your locomotive is NOT domestic Dick Ross !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 15:55:12 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 2254 In a message dated 97-06-17 12:14:02 EDT, shadow@dementia.org writes: << > To be correct, Derrick, you'd have join me in modeling the Panhandle in > Central Ohio. All six Pennsy Trainmasters were used primarily for transfer > duties in and around Columbus' Buckeye and Grogan yards. We SPFss hereabouts > take the amount of FM equipment assigned to this area as a sign of how near > (or far) this area was to the hearts of the denizens of Broad Street. All of > the diesel shifters I've seen in Pennsy pictures from SW Ohio are FM H-10-44s > or H-12-44s. In later years this was correct because of the proximity to Lima and the much needed parts. Also, allow all the spare parts for FM's to be centralized for easier maintenance and the fact that to OP engines were so different from other manufactures only a limited number of employees had to maintain expertise in these dinosaurs. > I've seen pictures of the Trainmasters and other FM power in the vicinity of >Johnstown PA, generally in and around (East) Conemaugh. I can get references if >it really matters. True. Originally FM products could be found throught the system. > I checked my photos of Pennsy's six Trainmasters and none have Athearn's > short nose Keystone. However, none of the pix are from the final years of the > Pennsy when small keystones were replacing the large Pennsylvania lettering > on long hoods. AThearn's Trainmaster is the wrong phase for the PRR check photos against the model. Pay particular attention to the various vents and other body openings. > Of course, these were lettered Pennsylvania on the long hoods so presumably > would also be wrong for the later years. >Also, a while back I had mentioned that I had a Baldwin freight Shark decorated >with the "worm", and wondered if any of the lightning stripe gang had made it >to the roster of the colossus, and people seemed to come to a "no" consensus. >This doesn't disprove that but the proposed roster in Pennsy Power 2 mentions >the Central's sharks being held over in the numbering scheme, so it's possible, >I suppose... Won't all the NYC sharks have been in cigar band scheme by 1968? Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: arnew@bgnett.no Date: 17 Jun 97 15:59:34 UT Subject: Re: Checks & # 73116 Content-Length: 864 At 15:25 17.06.97 UT, Dick Ross wrote: > NEVER HEARD OF A U.S. LOCOMOTIVE WITH A 5 DIGIT ROAD NUMER - >MUST BE EUROPEAN - OR CHINESE (first two digits would be class number >followed by sequence number) > Ok ONLY the PRR had locomotives with five digit numbers - there were a >couple of electrics, or gas electrics, 10001 - 10003 and, I've read, that >occasionally a "1" was placed in front of the 4 digit road number of an >engine scheduled for scrap - but will stand by statement that original of >your locomotive is NOT domestic >Dick Ross > According to my knowledge, 10001 - 10003 was Pennsy's first AC prototypes, built in 1907. 10001 and 10002 were Bo'Bo' or B-B and were later renumbered 3950 and 3951 and classed AA1. 3950 was sold to LIRR in 1916. 10003 was a 2B loco tested on the LIRR. Arne Wangen Bergen Norway !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: robs@protocol.zycad.com Date: 17 Jun 97 16:03:09 UT Subject: Re: Athearn Fs (Was:Test... Is this list active?) Content-Length: 338 Jerry said: >Athearn had offered the same units in freight paint. How accurate >(considering) were their bodies? I'm more likely to buy new bodies than to >paint them! Would you believe Athearn did 5 stripes on an Olive green body?! Rob PS: I'll second Andy's comment about asking the wife for an airbrush for Christmas! !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: relliott@mail.telis.org Date: 17 Jun 97 16:51:13 UT Subject: PRR heavyweights Content-Length: 439 I just bought some N-scale Heavyweight cars by Rivarossi and discovered that they are painted brown which looks nothing like the Tuscan red I have been painting my other Pennsy cars. Should they be left "brown" or should I repaint them? Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold stripes under the windows? Thanks, Roger Elliott !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: relliott@mail.telis.org Date: 17 Jun 97 17:00:58 UT Subject: PRR Heavyweights Content-Length: 439 I just bought some N-scale Heavyweight cars by Rivarossi and discovered that they are painted brown which looks nothing like the Tuscan red I have been painting my other Pennsy cars. Should they be left "brown" or should I repaint them? Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold stripes under the windows? Thanks, Roger Elliott !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 17 Jun 97 17:07:05 UT Subject: TANGENT-Humor-Karnac the Magnificent! Content-Length: 2143 I rarely pass these on...but this one's good... ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- Karnac the Magnificent! ******************************************************************* DO NOT SKIP AHEAD. Read this message ONE LINE AT A TIME and just do what it says. You will be glad you did. If not, you'll feel like an idiot and wish you had listened. ******************************************************************* 1) pick a number from 1-9 2) subtract 5 3) multiply by 3 4) square the number (multiply by the same number -- not square root) 5) add the digits until you get only one digit (i.e. 64=6+4=10= 1+0=1) 6) if the number is less than 5, add five. Otherwise subtract 4. 7) multiply by 2 8) subtract 6 9) map the digit to a letter in the alphabet 1=A, 2=B,3=C, etc... 10) pick a name of a country that begins with that letter 11) take the second letter in the country name and think of a mammal that begins with that letter 12) think of the color of that mammal (keep scrolling) ******************************************************************** DO NOT SCROLL DOWN UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE ALL OF THE ABOVE ******************************************************************** Here it comes, NO CHEATING or you'll be sorry. You have a grey elephant from Denmark. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: arnew@bgnett.no Date: 17 Jun 97 17:34:07 UT Subject: Re: TANGENT-Humor-Karnac the Magnificent! Content-Length: 834 At 17:07 17.06.97 UT, you wrote: > >I rarely pass these on...but this one's good... >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton >"Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ >Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! >----------------------------------------------- > >Karnac the Magnificent! > > >******************************************************************* > DO NOT SKIP AHEAD. Read this message ONE LINE AT A TIME > and just do what it says. You will be glad you did. If not, > you'll feel like an idiot and wish you had listened. > >******************************************************************* > snip > You have a grey elephant from Denmark. > Wrong..... I got a brown elk from Denmark :-) Arne Wangen Bergen Norway !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 18:46:40 UT Subject: MDC Pass Cars Content-Length: 800 I am modeling the PRR in 1910 through 1915 and would like to know if the various series of MDC Roundhouse Parrenger cars are reasonably close to the prototype to represent this time period. Specifically: 34 foot Overton Series, Coach, Baggage, Combine, and Observation.. 86 foot Pullman Palace Cars, Dining Car, Sleeping Car, Combine, and Observation. 50 foot Palace Cars, Coach, Baggage, Combine, and Observation. What about there 50 foot Overland Cars, Mail, Baggage, Sleeper, and Business. Can these be modified to Pennsy standards? Also interested in their Harriman Cars. Did the Pennsy use any of this style car? RPO, Baggage, Combine, Diner, Coach, and Observation. According to MDC these were produced starting in 1910. Harold Modeling the Columbia Branch 1910 to 1915 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BOBV@nantucket.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:11:12 UT Subject: Re: Assembling a Bowser Content-Length: 1015 asmiller@mail11.mitre.org wrote: > > Jerry said: > > >I've read the directions for assembly of my K4 kit and am less overwhelmed > > >The kit mentions using a file and steel wool to remove flash. Aren't there > >different grades of steel wool? What grade should I get? > > > > >Thanks. > >--------------------------------------------- > > Jerry, > > 1. Be VERY careful with steel wool! It will leave small steel shards everywhere and they ar death to the motor whose magnet will attract them! > Keep the motor (and for that matter the gears) far from the area where the steel wool polishing is done. > > > regards > Andy Miller There is also bronze wool, obviously not magnetic but shards could cause short circuits. A better choice would be 3M artificial steel wool which is like those green scrubby pads for dishes but in a choice of grades. You ought to see if a green scrubby from the sink will work. If you need a rougher pad then go to the hardware store. -Bob Vogel !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cupper@ibm.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:22:28 UT Subject: Re: K4s Content-Length: 338 I believe a week or so ago we established that > most of the red roofs were on "lines west". Though this was discussed, Jerry, I don't think there was a conclusion and I doubt that it was true. For color pix of freshly shopped steamers at Altoona with red trim, check Don Ball's book, Page 132. Dan Cupper Romans 10:9 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BOBV@nantucket.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:24:15 UT Subject: Re: PRR Heavyweights Content-Length: 386 relliott@mail.telis.org wrote: > Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? > Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold > stripes under the windows? > > Thanks, > Roger Elliott I've never heard of a Pennsy dome car as in the N-scale set. Did it exist or, as I suspect, is it just wishful thinking on the part of Con Cor? -Bob Vogel !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:33:32 UT Subject: Re: Assembling a Bowser Content-Length: 1760 The 3-M "artificial steel wool" that Andy is referring to is called Scotch-Brite. It is used as hand and machine operated pads to remove gasket material from diesel engine parts and to prepare metal surfaces for assembly. Scotch-Brite comes in various textures and sizes. Be careful if you get hold of any pads for power tools as they can round off edges of soft parts. For what they are designed for they are the next best thing to store sliced bread. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: BOBV@nantucket.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Assembling a Bowser > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 4:11 PM > > asmiller@mail11.mitre.org wrote: > > > > Jerry said: > > > > >I've read the directions for assembly of my K4 kit and am less overwhelmed > > > > >The kit mentions using a file and steel wool to remove flash. Aren't there > > >different grades of steel wool? What grade should I get? > > > > > > > > >Thanks. > > >--------------------------------------------- > > > > Jerry, > > > > 1. Be VERY careful with steel wool! It will leave small steel shards everywhere and they ar death to the motor whose magnet will attract them! > > Keep the motor (and for that matter the gears) far from the area where the steel wool polishing is done. > > > > > > regards > > Andy Miller > > There is also bronze wool, obviously not magnetic but shards could cause > short circuits. A better choice would be 3M artificial steel wool which > is like those green scrubby pads for dishes but in a choice of grades. > You ought to see if a green scrubby from the sink will work. If you > need a rougher pad then go to the hardware store. > > -Bob Vogel !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:41:23 UT Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 1493 Dear Jerry, I don't know of a way to add weight in the Bachmann K4s because of the way that they build the mechanism. I tried taking apart the one I own and it did not look very promising. The traction tire idea is one I have not done but have seen others use it with success on brass. It is embarrassing to have an expensive brass steamer that won't pull a cotton ball around a club layout. Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: geshick@velocity.net > To: Members of group > Subject: Spectrum & checks > Date: Monday, June 16, 1997 8:34 PM > > Earlier this year I bought the Spectrum K4 & the heavyweight > passenger set. (The local dealer did say that a Pullman set was > forthcoming.) Of course the K4 slips badly (even with 3 cars). Has > anyone tried to add weight or rubber tires, & if so, how well did it > work? > > Also, I just received my order of blank checks from Checks In The Mail. > I ordered the Transportation design, which includes a passenger train. > The locomotive appears to have a Belpaire firebox. It's tough to make > out details, but it looks like a 4-6-2 (#73116), & has a wide > rectangular plate about half way up the front. The tender is about the > same height as the cab, and I don't see a cow-catcher. Just curious to > know if anyone has seen these checks, & can i.d. the locomotive. > with (#73116) > -- > Jerry Shickler > Erie, PA > e-mail: geshick@velocity.net > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:48:48 UT Subject: Re: Checks & # 73116 Content-Length: 875 Baldwin built demo steam locomotive # 60000 (Located in the Franklin Institute in Philly) comes to mind as a US built five digit exception to the general rule of thumb. ---------- > From: VVA249@aol.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Checks & # 73116 > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 11:25 AM > > NEVER HEARD OF A U.S. LOCOMOTIVE WITH A 5 DIGIT ROAD NUMER - > MUST BE EUROPEAN - OR CHINESE (first two digits would be class number > followed by sequence number) > Ok ONLY the PRR had locomotives with five digit numbers - there were a > couple of electrics, or gas electrics, 10001 - 10003 and, I've read, that > occasionally a "1" was placed in front of the 4 digit road number of an > engine scheduled for scrap - but will stand by statement that original of > your locomotive is NOT domestic > Dick Ross > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 17 Jun 97 20:57:49 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 1228 Look at the bright side Jerry! You never got talked into a PRR Hudson! ---------- > From: britton@pit-magnus.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 9:41 AM > > > From: shadow@dementia.org > > > > In many aspects, I was "green" when I started > > > this list. The time will come when you will feel comfortable "chiming > in". > > > > So, did anyone else read this and think Jerry was telling us he started > this > > list as a Central fan hoping to be converted? > > Oh, a funny man! > > I meant I didn't know squat when I started this list. Now I know squat plus > a little! > > The downside is that knowledge is expensive. I have a set of ABA F7s in > Tuscan that now I can't use! Same with a six car set of Athearn streamline > passenger cars. Instead of buying $5-8 car kits, now I am spending $20+. > Maybe I was better off stupid! > > BTW: Anyone need an Athearn PC wide vision caboose? ! ;-) > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 21:13:47 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 570 In a message dated 97-06-17 15:57:31 EDT, you write: << I do have a "cheap" GG-1. I believe the brand is Pemco or something. Since my new layout will not be electrified, who cares? Actually, my Northern Central layout will have a spot where it comes alongside the Atglen & Susquehanna (Wago Junction). I'll probably park 'er there. She's tuscan, so she wouldn't have been there in the prototype, but I won't take the time to paint 'er. >> Jerry, you can always use it in tow to Altoona for heavy repairs from DC via your Northern Central. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: trains@redrose.net Date: 17 Jun 97 21:19:42 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 351 Jerry, Don't feel bad, I am just as bad, I also have a DD-40, but I checked a picture of an SD-40 and copied both sides on mine. It looks impressive as you said, as for keeping in prototype, my PRR is still alive and well. My paint shop will soon have an AC4400 in Brunswick Green with 5 stripes. We can only dream :) Brian Brandt !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 21:23:08 UT Subject: Re: Athearn Fs (Was:Test... Is this list active?) Content-Length: 505 In a message dated 97-06-17 17:14:52 EDT, you write: << BTW The FPs ran with standard F7B units, some of which were painted in Tuscan 5 stripe to match. So your B unit's OK. >> PRR considered these FP7B's. The only difference was the addition of steam lines for heating the passenger cars and electrical lines for power to the cars. An under body detail that can be left off. Very few will know it is missing. Contest quality model would need this distinguishing feature. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 17 Jun 97 21:34:08 UT Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 406 In a message dated 97-06-17 21:03:11 EDT, hfitch@maranatha.net writes: << I don't know of a way to add weight in the Bachmann K4s because of the way that they build the mechanism. I tried taking apart the one I own and it did not look very promising. >> By using #8 shot and silicon adhesive in every available space, I was able to add about 1 1/2 oz. Not much and not much help. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 17 Jun 97 21:54:46 UT Subject: Two "Liberty Limited" Consists Content-Length: 2065 Over the past week we have discussed passenger consists at length, and Andy Miller and I, especially discussed the "Liberty Limited". I made mention of a Rails Northeast article containing numerous consist reports on the "Liberty Limited". Though I don't have a copy of the article back in my possession (I will, next week), I found some notes I made and two of the consists. The issue was March 1979. Below, in text and parens, is the consist report. In brackets is my stabb at the class. Please provide your thoughts if you have something to add. 1943: No mention of power. Undoubtedly K4, perhaps doubled. Ran in two sections. Section 1: (3) 12 sections, 1 drawing room [_____, ? Pullman Plan 3410G] (1) Diner [D82BR] (1) 4 compartment, 2 drawing room, 4 double bedroom [PS442] (1) 12 duplex, 5 double bedroom [PS125A] (1) 10 roomette, 5 double bedroom [PS105A] (1) 2 master bedroom, 1 double bedroom, buffet-lounge, observation [POS21A] Section 2: (1) B60 baggage [B60, as stated] (3) P70KR coach [P70KR, as stated] (1) diner [D82BR] (1) 3 double bedroom, 1 drawing room, bar-lounge [PS13L] (1) 10 roomette, 5 double bedroom [PS105A] (1) 12 sections, 1 drawing room [_____, ? Pullman Plan 3410G] (1) 14 sections [________] (1) 8 sections,1 drawing room, 2 compartments [_____, ? Pullman Plan 3979A] 1953: EMD E7 ABA power (1) PL85 baggage-lounge-bar [PL85, as stated] (2) P85BR coach [P85BR, as stated] (1) 14 section [______] (1) 6 double bedroom, bar-lounge [PS6LB] (1) full length diner [D85C] (1) full length kitchen-dorm [D85D] (1) 4 compartment, 2 drawing room, 4 double bedroom [PS442] (1) 12 duplex, 4 double bedroom [PS124] (1) 21 roomette [PS21B] (1) 2 drawing room, 1 compartment, 1 double bedroom, bar-lounge, observation [POS211] Obviously, I've got my modelling work cut out for me! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 17 Jun 97 22:53:17 UT Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 1590 I have toyed with this goofy idea of making a "Powered" express car or some other appropriate piece of rolling stock with a hidden mechanism to use as a helper behind the Bachmann K4s. Has anyone tried to do this with any success? (I know of a gag powered box car that someone made to sit in a yard for laughs. When someone would power the block it would move and give folks a good chuckle.) Since I do not have a running Bowser or Penn Line K4s I have not tried double heading with the Bachmann model. Has anyone tried this with any success? Since the Bachmann model looks like such a problem to adapt a coupler to the pilot, it looks like it would have to be the lead locomotive in a double header? I can still resort to plan "A" which was to use the Bachmann K4s model to run my own version of the Parkton local on the Northern Central with only two P70's Plan "B" is using this locomotive in a perpetual boiler wash scene! Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net ---------- > From: SUVCWORR@aol.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 5:34 PM > > In a message dated 97-06-17 21:03:11 EDT, hfitch@maranatha.net writes: > > << I don't know of a way to add weight in the Bachmann > K4s because of the way that they build the mechanism. > I tried taking apart the one I own and it did not look very promising. > >> > By using #8 shot and silicon adhesive in every available space, I was able to > add about 1 1/2 oz. Not much and not much help. > > Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: trains@redrose.net Date: 17 Jun 97 23:31:28 UT Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 264 Harry, I use a Mantua Atlantic double headed with the Spectrum K-4 to pull the Bachmann passenger cars. It looks, and pulls it well. The Atlantic could pull it itself, but it pushes the K-4 over places that it would stall over switches. Brian Brandt !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jer@smellycat.com Date: 17 Jun 97 23:49:31 UT Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks Content-Length: 1128 hfitch@maranatha.net wrote: > I have toyed with this goofy idea of making > a "Powered" express car or some other appropriate > piece of rolling stock with a hidden mechanism to > use as a helper behind the Bachmann K4s. > Has anyone tried to do this with any success? I haven't done it myself, but I know of someone who made a powered Athearn mechanic reefer car. He used a locomotive frame which fit perfectly inside the car. Problem was, the locomotive was an Athearn SD40-2, so it looked *really* weird! Slightly off-topic: While in traffic on the Ohio Turnpike on Sunday, I saw a construction crane which had on the back the lettering: LIMA BLH Did Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton ever build cranes? Did the PRR ever own any? After all, they *did* buy every other diesel Baldwin built..... :-) Later, -Jer -- Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 18 Jun 97 07:07:36 UT Subject: Branch histories Content-Length: 1058 Sorry, folks, I cannot remember who edited all of the branch histories. I have reposted Mark Bej's Cumberland Valley Branch and Bruce Smith's Columbia & Port Deposit Branch. Tonite I will be posting Jerry Jordak's Philadelphia & Erie and Dave Wartel's Newtown Square and Cardington branches. I also know that Tom V. will be supplying/resupplying a lot of "lines west" material. Of course I remember which one's I did, and I will be recreating them. For the following branches that were done previously, however, I forget who did the editing. Please speak up and resupply if possible: -Bald Eagle Branch -Sodus Point & Southern -any others? Mark: Do you still want to do the Atglen & Susquehanna? Earl: Do you still want to do the main from PARK (thereabouts) to BANKS? Anyone else want to volunteer for a branch? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 18 Jun 97 07:55:24 UT Subject: Re: PRR heavyweights Content-Length: 1442 From: relliott@mail.telis.org > Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? > Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold > stripes under the windows? This question comes up a lot, so I will create a FAQ on the subject at "KC". "Fleet of Modernism" was introduced in 1938 and was a "theme" that included a special paint job on new and some retrofitted passenger equipment on Pennsy's premiere passenger trains: Broad Way Limited, Liberty Limited, Spirit of St. Louis, and - I think - The General. They were Tuscan, with a wide, two-tone panel running down their sides through the windows of the car. In other words, the painted panel was the height of the windows. The ends of the painted panel were rounded (half circle). Con Cor offers a set of "FoM" cars in N scale, but at least some of the cars are not PRR prototype. I contacted Con Cor, and they have no plans to make an HO scale offering in the near future. The paint scheme you mention -- Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold stripes under the windows -- was not "FoM". Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think this theme was pre-war (just before "FoM"). I think post-war they went with a simpler single stripe. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 18 Jun 97 08:22:56 UT Subject: RE: PRR Heavyweights Content-Length: 1251 >I just bought some N-scale Heavyweight cars by Rivarossi and discovered >that they are painted brown which looks nothing like the Tuscan red I >have been painting my other Pennsy cars. Should they be left "brown" or >should I repaint them? > >Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? >Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold >stripes under the windows? > >Thanks, >Roger Elliott > - ------ Yes Roger, the PRR HWs from about 1935 on were painted the same way as the streamlined cars; Tuscan Red with three gold stripes. The Pullman Company painted Pulmmans assigned to PRR service in Tuscan Red with no stripes. This was until 1948 when the Justice Departmant broke up the Pullman Company (it was otherwise an unassailable monopoly destined to dominated passenger travel for the next century!). After that the cars were owned by the PRR and had PENNSYLVANIA rather than PULLMAN on the letterboard and the 3 gold stripes like all of the others. Next Answer: Yes the FOM Raymond Lowey scheme was as you described; and both streamlined and modernized HWs intended for service on the "Blue Ribbon" fleet were so painted. This included the Pullmans assigned to those trains. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 18 Jun 97 08:39:37 UT Subject: Re: PRR Heavyweights Content-Length: 809 >relliott@mail.telis.org wrote: >> Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? >> Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold >> stripes under the windows? >> >> Thanks, >> Roger Elliott > >I've never heard of a Pennsy dome car as in the N-scale set. Did it >exist or, as I suspect, is it just wishful thinking on the part of Con >Cor? >-Bob Vogel > It would have been an exciting sight comming into the tunnels in Penn Station (or Baltmore). No, the Pennsy NEVER had any dome cars and never allowed anyone elses on the line. Thats why Autotrain started in Lorton Va instead of the Jersey Meadows! It wasn't wishful thinking, it was NOT thinking! The only prototype for ConCor's N scale PRR dome is Concor's HO PRR dome! regrds Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 18 Jun 97 08:51:58 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 134 >Look at the bright side Jerry! > >You never got talked into a PRR Hudson! > >---------- You mean a Pennsy class P-6 ;-) !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 18 Jun 97 09:09:35 UT Subject: Re: PRR heavyweights Content-Length: 1682 >From: relliott@mail.telis.org > >> Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? >> Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold >> stripes under the windows? > >This question comes up a lot, so I will create a FAQ on the subject at "KC". > >"Fleet of Modernism" was introduced in 1938 and was a "theme" that included >a special paint job on new and some retrofitted passenger equipment on >Pennsy's premiere passenger trains: Broad Way Limited, Liberty Limited, >Spirit of St. Louis, and - I think - The General. > >They were Tuscan, with a wide, two-tone panel running down their sides >through the windows of the car. In other words, the painted panel was the >height of the windows. The ends of the painted panel were rounded (half >circle). > . . . > >The paint scheme you mention -- Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold stripes >under the windows -- was not "FoM". Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I >think this theme was pre-war (just before "FoM"). I think post-war they went >with a simpler single stripe. >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton - ---- Jerry, I believe the scheme he is describing IS FOM. The FOM scheme had, as you described, the 2 tone tuscan withg the round-end window band; but it also had 5 gold pin stripes under the windows. The stripes were genuinly thin; much thinner than those used after the war. Post war the PRR went with the 3 stripe scheme, 2 under the windows, one above. The single stripe scheme was used, I believe, in the last years before the (ugh!) merger. It went with the Scotchlite keystones. regards Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dennis@bbn.com Date: 18 Jun 97 11:03:34 UT Subject: Re: PRR Heavyweights Content-Length: 956 On 17 Jun, BOBV@nantucket.net wrote: > I've never heard of a Pennsy dome car as in the N-scale set. Did it > exist or, as I suspect, is it just wishful thinking on the part of Con > Cor? Unfortunately, Con-Cor has the nasty habit of including a dome car in all of his car sets, and not offering the cars separately. He put out several sets of Rivarossi corrugated cars, but just *had* to add a Con-Cor model of a Budd dome with them. I refused to buy any, on principle. It's really too bad; the N Scale Loewy FoM paint scheme was one of the technically best paint jobs I've ever seen from C-C. But *none* (as in, not even one) of the cars was a PRR prototype. I didn't buy one of those, either. *sigh* Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 18 Jun 97 16:33:06 UT Subject: US Robotics Sucks! Content-Length: 473 Installed my replacement USR X2 modem last night...it fried today! Back on 14.4 and in search of a new modem supplier. Yes, this one will get replaced for free, too, but I can't afford to be up a day and then down two weeks. Sorry for the inconvenience. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: 18 Jun 97 16:39:58 UT Subject: PENNSY Baltic 4-6-4 (aka Hudson on certain smaller roads) Content-Length: 275 We had this discussion before - In classes L & P Pennsy reserved numbers 1-5 for steamers Thus - on the Pennsy the first "Baltic" Class (4-6-4) most likely would have been a P-1s ----- and you can image what crews/fans might have called them! Dick Ross - Cleveland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: schlund@hsq.com Date: 18 Jun 97 16:57:26 UT Subject: PRR passenger car stripes during 1920's Content-Length: 304 With all this discussion of various striping schemes on PRR pasenger cars, nobody ever mentioned the correct scheme for the 1920's. Anyone know? How many stripes (and where) on late 1920's passenger cars is my question... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 18 Jun 97 20:02:56 UT Subject: BLH Cranes Content-Length: 2344 Jerry, The Lima company made cranes for years. When Baldwin and Lima merged and later took in Hamilton, they had several product lines that they were building besides locomotives. The later Lima cranes are/were made by the remnant company of the BLH merger. Lima cranes on crawler tracks worked construction, mining and general use. I do not have any records of the PRR owning any. (which does not mean that they did not) On a model layout there is many ways to make use of cranes. Some cranes with crawler platforms were loaded on flat cars and used in work trains ( mostly with clamshell buckets) on many railroads. They also look great at a location on your scenery depicting a drag-line operation or some other use. I see no reason why "the crane" could not be a BLH crane. In more modern times they also offered a series of cranes built on highway truck chassis. They also bore the BLH marks right on their counterweights. hfitch@maranatha.net ---------- > From: jer@smellycat.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Spectrum & checks > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 7:49 PM > > hfitch@maranatha.net wrote: > > > I have toyed with this goofy idea of making > > a "Powered" express car or some other appropriate > > piece of rolling stock with a hidden mechanism to > > use as a helper behind the Bachmann K4s. > > Has anyone tried to do this with any success? > > I haven't done it myself, but I know of someone who made a powered > Athearn mechanic reefer car. He used a locomotive frame which fit > perfectly inside the car. Problem was, the locomotive was an Athearn > SD40-2, so it looked *really* weird! > > Slightly off-topic: While in traffic on the Ohio Turnpike on Sunday, > I saw a construction crane which had on the back the lettering: > > LIMA > BLH > > Did Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton ever build cranes? Did the PRR ever own any? > After all, they *did* buy every other diesel Baldwin built..... :-) > > Later, > -Jer > > -- > Jerry W. Jordak The boxcars and flatbeds, whistle blowin' steam > mailto:jer@smellycat.com That was yesterday > http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/ Now those big trains don't come anymore > Acts 16:31 <>< -- Restless Heart, "Big Iron Horses" > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 18 Jun 97 20:10:25 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 466 OK, Hey Jerry, look at the bright side you never got talked into a 2-8-8-8-2T lettered for PRR! hfitch@maranatha.net ---------- > From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? > Date: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 4:51 AM > > > > >Look at the bright side Jerry! > > > >You never got talked into a PRR Hudson! > > > >---------- > You mean a Pennsy class P-6 ;-) > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 18 Jun 97 21:30:27 UT Subject: Re: PRR heavyweights Content-Length: 1988 In a message dated 97-06-18 15:46:17 EDT, you write: << Next question: Does anyone know about the "Fleet of Modernism" cars? Are they the ones that were done in Tuscan and Maroon with the 5 gold stripes under the windows? >> Yes, the fleet of modernism designed by Raymond Loewy is painted as follows (from Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering pg 68) Roof -- black body -- Tuscan with marron band around windows sash, sash beading, weatherstripping -- same as surrounding color end sheets -- Tuscan diaphragms - metal parts -- sides Tuscan, top -- black underframe -- black underneath equipment -- tuscan until dec 44 then truck green lettering and stripping -- imitation gole (Jan '38 till mid '39) gold leaf (mid '39 till spring '46 when scheme was scrapped) vestibule -- tuscan red and maroon jan '38 till late '43 then maroon dropped trucks - black till Dec 44 then truck green handrails - black step treads, vestibule floor -- black lettering style -- futura Jan '38 to spring '41, block '41 till spring '43 then modern block Letterboard -- "PENNSYLVANIA" striping 1/4" gold on the lower edge of eave moulding, 1/4" gold at bottom of letterboard, 5/8" gold above, below and circling windows, five 1/4" gold, spaced along girder sheet. The following differences occur on Pullman & Parlor cars Underneath equipment -- black lettering & striping -- imitation gold Jan '38 till Jan '40; gold leaf Jan '40 till Jan '42; gold color Jan '42 till '46 vestibule -- lt wt cars tan and entrance door rust color. Hvy wt. two tone light and dark tuscan After 1943 all lt. tuscan handrails -- stainless steel on lt wt and betterment cars lettering style '38 till mid '41 Kabel then same as PRR Letterboard -- "PULLMAN" striping -- same as PRR until Jan 41 then the 1/4" stripe on the eave moulding was deleted and painted black to match roof edging of lettering -- 1/8" black no edging with block lettering Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 18 Jun 97 23:44:49 UT Subject: Glad to see the mail server back. Content-Length: 1138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------937358E94EE20978A0D12998 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just want to thank Jerry for his efforts. The Pennsy has become a hobby for myself and my wife. We are building a Hi-Rail layout. Hi-Rail means 3 rail track, and sized like Lionel, but with a reasonable effort toward realism and scale. My layout is based on the Pennsylvania Mountain Division, circa 1930's. It takes up ZERO floor space. I have learned a lot from this group. Thanks Jerry! -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS --------------937358E94EE20978A0D12998 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Larry P. Morgan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Larry P. Morgan n: ;Larry P. Morgan email;internet: lpmorgan@iquest.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------937358E94EE20978A0D12998-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: geshick@velocity.net Date: 19 Jun 97 00:07:00 UT Subject: Odd consists Content-Length: 911 A few hundred feet from my desk at work is the old NYC line, now Conrail, through Erie. In the last couple days I've seen a train consisting of 12 locomotives with no other cars, and a single locomotive pulling a dozen or so semi trailers, but without a flat car. The trailers still had their highway wheels, and a single rail truck was connected directly to the ends of each trailer pair, a la TGV coaches. I don't recall seeing either before (though my interest in the hobby began only about 6 months ago, so I just may have never noticed). Also, has anyone 'scaled out' the engineer that Bachmann puts in the Specrum loco's. It seemed too big in the K4, and looking at the one in the GE 44 ton I recently got (looks like the same guy), it appears he wouldn't even fit through the cab door. Did Andre the Giant work the Pennsy ? :-) -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA e-mail: geshick@velocity.net !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 97 00:58:56 UT Subject: Re: US Robotics Sucks! Content-Length: 502 In a message dated 97-06-18 21:51:21 EDT, jerry@dsop.com writes: << nstalled my replacement USR X2 modem last night...it fried today! Back on 14.4 and in search of a new modem supplier. Yes, this one will get replaced for free, too, but I can't afford to be up a day and then down two weeks. >> Jerry: If you want to change brands, try a Cardinal. I have used their modems ever since I gave up on US Robotics. Also, they generally are the top rated by Consumer Products. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 19 Jun 97 07:51:30 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 679 From: hfitch@maranatha.net > >Look at the bright side Jerry! > > > >You never got talked into a PRR Hudson! > >Hey Jerry, look at the bright side you never got talked into >a 2-8-8-8-2T lettered for PRR! Okay, I admitted my faults...I've got non-prototype Athearn passenger cars, a DD40, and an SW1500. I admit it. But do you folks really think I am so gullible that I would have "gotten talked into..."? BTW: Was the Pennsy's "Galloping Goose" brunswick or tuscan? ;-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: tom@cfnh2.mv.com Date: 19 Jun 97 08:12:56 UT Subject: Re: Odd consists Content-Length: 1384 geshick@velocity.net wrote: > > A few hundred feet from my desk at work is the old NYC line, now > Conrail, through Erie. In the last couple days I've seen a train > consisting of 12 locomotives with no other cars, and a single locomotive > pulling a dozen or so semi trailers, but without a flat car. The > trailers still had their highway wheels, and a single rail truck was > connected directly to the ends of each trailer pair, a la TGV coaches. I > don't recall seeing either before (though my interest in the hobby began > only about 6 months ago, so I just may have never noticed). > > Also, has anyone 'scaled out' the engineer that Bachmann puts in the > Specrum loco's. It seemed too big in the K4, and looking at the one in > the GE 44 ton I recently got (looks like the same guy), it appears he > wouldn't even fit through the cab door. Did Andre the Giant work the > Pennsy ? :-) > -- > Jerry Shickler > Erie, PA > e-mail: geshick@velocity.net Jerry, Loco with trailers are Trailer Train units. If you ever get on the Jersey Tpk north of Newark you will see them making up a train of these. Numerous locos usually means transfer of power from one location to another or going to or from the shop or some other reason they need to move a large number of locos at once. Hope this helps. Not to many opps like that here in NH. Tom Mahon !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 19 Jun 97 11:11:04 UT Subject: Passenger Car Kits Content-Length: 461 Please excuse my ignorance...I have never purchased passenger car kits / sides from either Brass Car Sides or Eastern Car Works. When these companies quote "PRR prototype", does that mean that they are PRR prototype but undecorated, or do the actually come prepainted? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 19 Jun 97 12:00:18 UT Subject: What to do in a snow storm... Content-Length: 940 Last night I posted another Acrobat PDF at "Keystone Crossings" in the "Documents" section. The document is titled "Special Instructions for Snow Storms" and dated October 15, 1952. It is specific to the Philadelphia Division and has instructions for all levels of employees and various forms of equipment -- with specifics for electric operations! Don't recall if I sent a post out previously, but there are also PDFs for the complete 1946 Annual Report ("Documents" section) and the complete "Through Freight Train Schedules Between Principal Points" dated February 1, 1952 ("Freight Ops" section). I normally won't announce new postings to the list, except for substantial documents as these that are offered in Acrobat PDF format. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: robs@protocol.zycad.com Date: 19 Jun 97 12:06:59 UT Subject: Re: Passenger Car Kits Content-Length: 570 They're PRR prototype & undecorated. Gotta paint & decal them. Time to get an airbrush! Rob >Please excuse my ignorance...I have never purchased passenger car kits / >sides from either Brass Car Sides or Eastern Car Works. > >When these companies quote "PRR prototype", does that mean that they are PRR >prototype but undecorated, or do the actually come prepainted? >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator >Progressive Information Technologies >britton@pit-magnus.com >http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 19 Jun 97 13:09:57 UT Subject: RE: Passenger Car Kits Content-Length: 338 From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > All of these kits come unpainted. Any recommendation for paint vendor/color and decal vendor (1943 and 1953)? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 19 Jun 97 16:36:10 UT Subject: RE: Passenger Car Kits Content-Length: 441 My preference has always been for Floquil (airbrushed on plastic) and Champ decals. >From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org > >> All of these kits come unpainted. > >Any recommendation for paint vendor/color and decal vendor (1943 and 1953)? >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator >Progressive Information Technologies >britton@pit-magnus.com >http://www.pit-magnus.com > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TONYRSE@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 97 18:52:19 UT Subject: Re: Can't contain myself Content-Length: 39 Can't wait to see it. Happy tenth. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 97 19:45:33 UT Subject: Re: Odd consists Content-Length: 1010 In a message dated 97-06-19 10:54:00 EDT, you write: << ... and a single locomotive pulling a dozen or so semi trailers, but without a flat car. The > trailers still had their highway wheels, and a single rail truck was > connected directly to the ends of each trailer pair, a la TGV coaches. I > don't recall seeing either before (though my interest in the hobby began > only about 6 months ago, so I just may have never noticed). > >> These are Road Railers (reg. tradename) The trailers are mounted on a boggie with rail wheels and are conected with couplers. The system eliminates the need for the flat cars, produces less friction and requires less motiove power to move the same amount of commodity. This is a joint CR-NS venture. Normally the trains travel from Chicago to Pittsburgh to Harrisburg on CR and are hannded off to NS in Harrisburg for the trip to Hagerstown and south. Reverse move is used west. This service has been in place for several years. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zeolla@erols.com Date: 19 Jun 97 22:57:18 UT Subject: The Pennsy in the Steel City Content-Length: 953 I just received my copy of this book and I can't believe it. What a fabulous collection of photos. This book has rekindled my interest in modeling the Conemaugh division in the Allegheny valley, particularly the areas around Tarentum, Brackenridge and Natrona. As a boy I used to visit there often, its probably where my interest in trains and the PRR came from (having grown up in NYC). I now live outside of Philadelphia, so I'm still quite a distance from there, but I hope that won't deter me. I'm planning to spend a few days out there in early August. Guess I'll take plenty of film with me! Besides taking lots of pictures of what's there now (I hope the steel mill is still there), does anyone have any advice for me as to what I should try to accomplish in the short time I'm there? I'll probably want my model to reflect the mid 60's, since that's when I was out there most. Thanks in advance... Bob Zeolla !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: geshick@velocity.net Date: 19 Jun 97 23:41:02 UT Subject: Re: Odd consists Content-Length: 666 SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > These are Road Railers (reg. tradename) The trailers are mounted on a boggie > with rail wheels and are conected with couplers. The system eliminates the > need for the flat cars, produces less friction and requires less motiove > power to move the same amount of commodity... I would think that would put a lot of stress on the trailers, and put it in places they weren't designed to handle. Have any design changes been made to the trailers, or are the transport savings enough to compensate for shorter trailer life, or am I wrong about there being a problem? -- Jerry Shickler Erie, PA e-mail: geshick@velocity.net !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rond@efn.org Date: 19 Jun 97 23:46:26 UT Subject: RE: Passenger Car Kits Content-Length: 766 > Any recommendation for paint vendor/color and decal vendor (1943 and 1953)? > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Hi Jerry and all, The latest Model Railroad News advertises some new Campbell Road Transfers that include some Pennsy lettering. I don't believe they would be correct for the years you are looking for since they are for heavyweights but they may be of interest. They are CR #Gold-2: Gold Heavyweight Passenger car lettering for Pennsy and others and CR #Gold-3: Gold Heavyweight Pullman cars of Pennsy and others. I don't know what is included in the sets nor if they are accurate. Perhaps Richard or Andy has seen them and can comment. Keep on Trackin' Ron Dugas. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 20 Jun 97 09:44:17 UT Subject: Models-paint Content-Length: 1654 Jerry, I've started using Poly Scale paints (NOT PolyS!) recently, and really like them. Their Brunswick Green and PRR Tuscan are VERY good matchs for Dark Locomotive Enamel and Tuscan, and the paints are the new micro particulate, water soluble, water thinable paints. They are pretty durable, and go on really well (thin with 10% water or polyS thinner). The finish is satin, and is good for decals without a gloss coat first. The fish dulls down nicely with only one or two coats of Dullcote. I use a badger 150 double action internal mix airbrush with a compressor (you have to have a compressor!!!!! Thos propellent cans are for the birds!). The airbrush works well, but is a pain to clean, and I think you would get results which were just as nice with a single action external mix brush. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 20 Jun 97 10:42:36 UT Subject: Air Brushes Content-Length: 926 True, this question might be better handled via the MODELRR list, but I know the answers I seek are here... With my new Bowser K4 and plans to model Brass Car Sides/Eastern Car Works/etc passenger cars, it seems inevitable that I will need to get an airbrush. What do I need to look for in features? I don't want to spend a lot of bucks. I see Testors has an "easy clean" multi-head unit. Any good...at least as a starter unit? (The only reason I mention this one is I can get it for free via a Toys R Us credit card rebate.) I gather these can run off of a compressor or a propellant can. Correct? Advise? Related: What brand/product of tape would one use that will mask areas but not pull up paint on those areas? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 20 Jun 97 11:11:16 UT Subject: RE: Air Brushes Content-Length: 1961 Jerry, Air brushes come with "internal" or "external" mix and with single or double action triggers. Thge really fancy (expensive) one and double action triggers with internal mix. That is, the rigger moves up and down for air and forward and back for paint. You don't need this! Is for the Vargas's of the world who create grat works of art with watercolors. In fact an internal mix will be a pain to keep clean with lacquer paints! I have a Paasche model H. It has worked well for 30 years and parts are still available. It is a single action external mix. That is the trigger goes only up and down. It controls the volume of air. I usually treat it as an on/off switch. There's not much I can do with the variation of air pressure with lacquer paint with the trigger. Adjusting the pressure on the regulator does much better. The paint volume is controlled exterally; i.e. by turning the nozzel on the front of the brush. This control is the critical one. regards Andy Miller >True, this question might be better handled via the MODELRR list, but I know >the answers I seek are here... > >With my new Bowser K4 and plans to model Brass Car Sides/Eastern Car >Works/etc passenger cars, it seems inevitable that I will need to get an >airbrush. > >What do I need to look for in features? > >I don't want to spend a lot of bucks. I see Testors has an "easy clean" >multi-head unit. Any good...at least as a starter unit? (The only reason I >mention this one is I can get it for free via a Toys R Us credit card >rebate.) > >I gather these can run off of a compressor or a propellant can. Correct? >Advise? > >Related: What brand/product of tape would one use that will mask areas but >not pull up paint on those areas? >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator >Progressive Information Technologies >britton@pit-magnus.com >http://www.pit-magnus.com > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 13:18:28 UT Subject: Re: Odd consists Content-Length: 920 In a message dated 97-06-20 00:32:02 EDT, you write: << > These are Road Railers (reg. tradename) The trailers are mounted on a boggie > with rail wheels and are conected with couplers. The system eliminates the > need for the flat cars, produces less friction and requires less motiove > power to move the same amount of commodity... I would think that would put a lot of stress on the trailers, and put it in places they weren't designed to handle. Have any design changes been made to the trailers, or are the transport savings enough to compensate for shorter trailer life, or am I wrong about there being a problem? -- >> Jerry: I do not know if any design changes were made in the trailers. Since they were specifically built for this purpose, I would suspect that the load stress passing through the floor of the trailers would have been taken into consideration. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 13:31:56 UT Subject: Re: The Pennsy in the Steel City Content-Length: 1053 Bob: You can follow most of the Connemaugh from Federal St. through Freeport without much difficulty using River Road in Pittsburgh and PA 28. Allegheny Ludlum Steel is still acative in Brackenridge. The Tarentum yard is mostly overgrown but some tracks remain. This can be accessed from the river side of the yard if you snake through the industrail area. Etna yard may have significant amounts of cars. This varries. While you can get to the yard office beneath the 62nd street bridge, watch for the Conrail police. They frequently have a pullman car here as a mobile office. The Brilliant Wye has been cut. But the ramps to the bridge are still there. Pittsburgh water treatment plant may be an interesting modeling project in its 50's format. Most of the buildings remain with some modern additions. The Butler Jct. in Freeport is accessible however, the branck to Butler has been removed. Also the connect with the Shamut in Freeport is accessible as well as the bridge accross the Allegheny to Kiski Jct. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: tom@cfnh2.mv.com Date: 20 Jun 97 13:49:57 UT Subject: Re: Air Brushes Content-Length: 1248 britton@pit-magnus.com wrote: > > True, this question might be better handled via the MODELRR list, but I know > the answers I seek are here... > > With my new Bowser K4 and plans to model Brass Car Sides/Eastern Car > Works/etc passenger cars, it seems inevitable that I will need to get an > airbrush. > > What do I need to look for in features? > > I don't want to spend a lot of bucks. I see Testors has an "easy clean" > multi-head unit. Any good...at least as a starter unit? (The only reason I > mention this one is I can get it for free via a Toys R Us credit card > rebate.) > > I gather these can run off of a compressor or a propellant can. Correct? > Advise? > > Related: What brand/product of tape would one use that will mask areas but > not pull up paint on those areas? > --------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator > Progressive Information Technologies > britton@pit-magnus.com > http://www.pit-magnus.com Jerry, Can't comment on Testors air brush. Use a compressor. Drafting tape is very good, low tack, good seal. Can use maksing tape but put on a glass surface first and then pull off to lower tack of tape. Hope this helps. Tom Mahon !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: schlund@hsq.com Date: 20 Jun 97 14:06:50 UT Subject: Decal references Content-Length: 746 Jerry wrote: "Perhaps it would be of general interest to the list (which I could save for a Web FAQ) for those who have purchased decal sets from Microscale, Champ, etc., to state what comes in the pack. Catalogs and vendor web sites don't seem to provide enough information. If we could creat our own index and include quantities of each decal (or # of cars it can decal), with vendor part numbers, it would probably be of great help." Wouldn't it make sense to simply put a decal sheet onto a scanner and put the image onto a web page someplace? This way, you can simply see it true to life and decide for yourself if it has what you need... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Soolines@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 14:08:43 UT Subject: Mount Union Station Content-Length: 190 Can any provide me pictures or plans of the Mount Union Pa. station that was sold to the East Broad Top when the main track was relocated away from town? Jack Bartman soolines@aol.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 20 Jun 97 14:20:08 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 434 > Wouldn't it make sense to simply put a decal sheet onto a scanner > and put the image onto a web page someplace? Excellent idea!!! Problem may be light decal colors on white paper backs = lack of contrast for scanning. I'll work on it. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: geshick@velocity.net Date: 20 Jun 97 14:36:07 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 518 Clause wrote: > Wouldn't it make sense to simply put a decal sheet onto a scanner > and put the image onto a web page someplace? This way, you can simply see > it true to life and decide for yourself if it has what you need... > > Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) > San Francisco, CA I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't be pleased. I imagine there are decal sheets for laser printers available, & the decal sheets could then be reprinted from the scan. Copywrite infringements, etc... !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 20 Jun 97 14:53:20 UT Subject: Cab Roof Color and Other Information Content-Length: 2416 Greetings to the group, A while back there was some discussion about the color of cab roofs on Pennsy steam locomotives. The following information is from a booklet put out by the Pennsylvania Research & Information Association in 1972. The booklet was called _Special Publication No. 1_. It concerns the painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders as of October 8, 1929. According to the booklet, cab roofs were painted as follows: Type of work Wood Cabs Steel Cabs New 3rd Coat 3rd Coat Stripped bare 2nd Coat 3rd Coat Scale removed 2nd Coat 3rd Coat Repainting Primer 3rd Coat Touch Up Primer 2nd Coat Primer: Freight Car Color 2nd Coat: 3 parts freight car color 1 part black 3rd Coat: Equal parts freight car color and black The booklet went on to indicate: "It is interesting to note that three different colors were used on cab roofs, with none solid black. Wood cabs were treated differently from steel cabs, and the colors varied to some extent with different types of repairs. According to these 1929 instructions, steel cab roofs never used straight freight car red as the finish coat, whereas wood cabs used it when undergoing cleaning and repainting only, or for touch up repairs. The lightest color on steel cab roofs at that time was a mixture of three parts red and one of black, and this accounts for the somewhat dark red so frequently observed on steel cab roofs all over the PRR. Painting the roof was classed as "touch up" work when the entire cab did not require repainting. In all other types of repairs, steel cab roofs were painted with a mixture of equal parts of red and black, and this was so dark that it usually appeared black to an observer on the ground." As was indicated in an earlier post, cab interiors, including doors and seat boxes, were painted "Interior Cab Green". This color was described "...an ordinary medium green." Nowhere in the booklet is the term Brunswick Green used to describe the paint used for steam locomotives. The PRR's term was "Dark Green PRR Shade" and "Dark Green Locomotive Finish" depending on the era. Brunswick Green apparently is a non PRR term. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: tom@cfnh2.mv.com Date: 20 Jun 97 15:09:12 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 1003 geshick@velocity.net wrote: > > Clause wrote: > > > Wouldn't it make sense to simply put a decal sheet onto a scanner > > and put the image onto a web page someplace? This way, you can simply see > > it true to life and decide for yourself if it has what you need... > > > > Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) > > San Francisco, CA > > I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't be pleased. I imagine there are > decal sheets for laser printers available, & the decal sheets could then > be reprinted from the scan. Copywrite infringements, etc... Agree. Plain and white decal paper available from Micro-mark and at least clear available from Walthers and Champ. Plus you have to run on a color printer for Master because toner is water soluable. Then a color laser printer on decal paper at a commercial operation, e.g. Kinko's, because of the heat and pressure, unless you are rich enough or have access to a laser printer elsewhere. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 15:48:31 UT Subject: Triple Crown Trailers Content-Length: 276 sure that trailers were specially built for this service + they are always operated in special trains - or like Amtracks - behind regular equipment. Even with a lenghty train stresses involved would probably be less than High way operation of "triple bottoms" Dick Ross !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 16:44:36 UT Subject: Decal references Content-Length: 676 Posted originally during "problems" with list - Great Source for PRR Freight Car Decals: (SSAE For List) The Middle Division P. O. Box 332, New Cumberland, Pa. 17070 Selection is mainly Modern "Shadow" and "Outline" Keystones - but they are now going back and adding "Ball" era Keystone sets I picked up new set OHP-2 for "0" Scale H-21a & H-25 hoppers at the PRRT&HS Convention. One set contains enough for at least two cars for $ 5.00 - great value in "0" scale. Also included was an 8 1/2" X 11" lettering diagram - from railroad records - which shows proper "dimensional" and "capacity" markings for various classes. Dick Ross Cleveland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dennis@bbn.com Date: 20 Jun 97 17:06:08 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 957 On 20 Jun, VVA249@aol.com wrote: > Great Source for PRR Freight Car Decals: (SSAE For List) > > The Middle Division > P. O. Box 332, > New Cumberland, Pa. 17070 Hoping against hope, does he do N scale as well? I've been picking little bits of car-specific data out of other decal sheets (esp. Fine N Scale round roofs), but there's only so much available, and (for instance) the Microscale Merchandise Service sheet only contains car data for the X29 and X29b, when it could easily have included data for the relevant 50-footers as well. The stripes need a little cutting and pasting, but that's not so hard. Since I'm about to decal a MicroTrains 50' single-door box with these decals, I'm looking for the appropriate car data. That's the only N scale, 50', single-door boxcar with a roofwalk that I could find. Anybody know of any others? (hey! stop looking at the roof! you there! stop counting rivets! ;-) Dennis !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: schlund@hsq.com Date: 20 Jun 97 17:26:52 UT Subject: Scanning decal sheets Content-Length: 1541 With respect to scanning decal sheets and posting them on a web site, geshick@velocity.net wrote: "I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't be pleased. I imagine there are decal sheets for laser printers available, & the decal sheets could then be reprinted from the scan. Copywrite infringements, etc..." Copyright is a non-issue here - are you saying that the decal manufacturer owns the copyright to the PRR keystone design? Of course he/she doesn't. Ever seen a copyright notice on a decal sheet? I cannot say I have specifically looked for them, but I have never seen them either. Being an N scaler, I primarily use lettering from CDS, Clover House, & Northeast. I don't think any of these have copyright notices on them. Even if they did, that doesn't mean the copyright is legal or correct (and therefore enforcible). Any bozo can put a circle-c on a sheet, doesn't necessarily mean he/she owns the work. Why would the manufacturers be displeased? We are doing them a favor by getting the word out about what they make. Yes, you could use a laser printer to print it, but the scanned image would not be anywhere close to the quality of the origional decal, resolution is lost when scanning. besides, many (most) PRR lettering is white, and a laser printer doesn't print in white ink, only in black ink. So there is no realistic way to make a white circle-keystone with a normal laser printer... Claus Schlund (modeling steam-era PRR in N scale) San Francisco, CA !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RLMower@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 97 22:46:00 UT Subject: Re: Odd consists Content-Length: 1298 In a message dated 97-06-20 00:32:12 EDT, you write: << These are Road Railers (reg. tradename) The trailers are mounted on a boggie > with rail wheels and are conected with couplers. The system eliminates the > need for the flat cars, produces less friction and requires less motiove > power to move the same amount of commodity... I would think that would put a lot of stress on the trailers, and put it in places they weren't designed to handle. Have any design changes been made to the trailers, or are the transport savings enough to compensate for shorter trailer life, or am I wrong about there being a problem? >> Roalrailers are specially designed and built for the service they are in. The original version had the rail wheels built in they lowered on airbags. The current version uses the bogies. There are several key advantages to the roadrailer. The first is the low terminal handling costs all you really need is a lot with a rr track thru it and a jockey truck you do not need a packer or crane to load like flat cars. The other advantage is that while roadrailers are nore expensive than conventional trailers there is no need for the capital investment of flatcars which cost big$$ also no car shortages when traffic gets heavy. Randy !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: 21 Jun 97 07:08:07 UT Subject: DCC general query Content-Length: 2037 Ken's (KEMACPRR@aol.com) recent post about his very extensive use of DCC equipment prompts my question (a bit off the PRR thread, but wasn't the Standard RR always in the lead on electrical innovation?): -- Is there an interest or correspondence group somewhere on the Web for DCC users/ prospective users, to share info? I know the manufacturers have their Web sites, but practical and comparative information is hard to come by. -- Ditto for those interested in more technical aspects of DCC. I believe the NMRA has disbanded its own SIG. -- Some sample questions: how well does the sysem actually work, in terms of train control? What about dirty track: I have had lots of trouble in humid dusty basements for years even with conventional DC. What about track detection circuits? There are hints that conventional circuits may not work reliably or at all with the DCC signal. Some exotic devices have started to come on the market (with little transformers you pass the power feed through for each block); so what do I do about the 50 or so conventional detectors I have? (The MR EasyDCC articles never once mentioned detection circuits, which is troubling!) Meanwhile, I am doing some bench testing of DCC theory: I invested in a DigiTrax decoder, and have two of the North Coast kit decoders in hand but not yet assembled, and as a frustrated EE I have built a circuit that (with a computer interface) does most of the functions of a control station (service mode -- CV programming -- about to be tried). The beast does in fact control, on the bench, the decoder (speed, function groups) on the bench, but I have yet to try it out in a loco and on the layout. My fleet of Kato/Atlas diesels (all PRR, of course) waits eagerly, but cobwebs are growing on the layout and wheels have not turned for months! Thanks for your patience with this. John Bobsin New Jersey PS give me a ticket from Newark to Newark via Newark, please. (NJ - to Ohio - via Delaware, of course!) !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 21 Jun 97 07:46:25 UT Subject: Re: DCC general query Content-Length: 742 From: bobsin@nac.net > -- Is there an interest or correspondence group somewhere on the Web > for DCC users/ prospective users, to share info? I know the > manufacturers have their Web sites, but practical and comparative > information is hard to come by. I cannot imagine that there is not already a DCC list on the net. However, since it is also of interest to me, I would be willing to host a new list. Please research for current lists first, however, then get back to me (& this list) with results. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 97 09:59:04 UT Subject: Re: Cab Roof Color and Other Information Content-Length: 2885 In a message dated 97-06-20 21:01:19 EDT, you write: << Greetings to the group, A while back there was some discussion about the color of cab roofs on Pennsy steam locomotives. The following information is from a booklet put out by the Pennsylvania Research & Information Association in 1972. The booklet was called _Special Publication No. 1_. It concerns the painting of PRR Locomotives and Tenders as of October 8, 1929. According to the booklet, cab roofs were painted as follows: Type of work Wood Cabs Steel Cabs New 3rd Coat 3rd Coat Stripped bare 2nd Coat 3rd Coat Scale removed 2nd Coat 3rd Coat Repainting Primer 3rd Coat Touch Up Primer 2nd Coat Primer: Freight Car Color 2nd Coat: 3 parts freight car color 1 part black 3rd Coat: Equal parts freight car color and black The booklet went on to indicate: "It is interesting to note that three different colors were used on cab roofs, with none solid black. Wood cabs were treated differently from steel cabs, and the colors varied to some extent with different types of repairs. According to these 1929 instructions, steel cab roofs never used straight freight car red as the finish coat, whereas wood cabs used it when undergoing cleaning and repainting only, or for touch up repairs. The lightest color on steel cab roofs at that time was a mixture of three parts red and one of black, and this accounts for the somewhat dark red so frequently observed on steel cab roofs all over the PRR. Painting the roof was classed as "touch up" work when the entire cab did not require repainting. In all other types of repairs, steel cab roofs were painted with a mixture of equal parts of red and black, and this was so dark that it usually appeared black to an observer on the ground." As was indicated in an earlier post, cab interiors, including doors and seat boxes, were painted "Interior Cab Green". This color was described "...an ordinary medium green." Nowhere in the booklet is the term Brunswick Green used to describe the paint used for steam locomotives. The PRR's term was "Dark Green PRR Shade" and "Dark Green Locomotive Finish" depending on the era. Brunswick Green apparently is a non PRR term. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA >> The information provided by Drew is correct for 1929. However, in the late 30's early 40's the roof and tender deck of some classes of locomotives were no longer painted with freight car color & black mix but rather black/dk. locomotive enamel. For example, the T1 never had a red roof or tender deck. Likewise, the J1, Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 21 Jun 97 10:51:04 UT Subject: Re: DCC general query Content-Length: 1530 > From: bobsin@nac.net > Date: 21 Jun 97 07:08:07 UT > Reply-to: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > To: Members of group > Subject: DCC general query *** > -- Is there an interest or correspondence group somewhere on the Web > for DCC users/ prospective users, to share info? I know the > manufacturers have their Web sites, but practical and comparative > information is hard to come by. > > -- Ditto for those interested in more technical aspects of DCC. I > believe the NMRA has disbanded its own SIG. > I don't believe that this is correct. The DCC Working Group was primarily for those working on the DCC Standards and RPs and was/is not open to everyone. It hasn't gone away. Some of the members have changed. But to address your question, I saw a list of discussion lists posted to the RAILROAD List awhile back and although I didn't keep a copy of it, I did keep the return address of the person who posted it. (No name, sorry.) southern.rr.club@juno.com It is very likely that he could tell you if a DCC discussion list is already in existence. If not, it would seem to be appropriate to start one. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html ===================== === Homepage of the Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region NMRA == !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rond@efn.org Date: 21 Jun 97 13:14:18 UT Subject: CDS Lettering Set Description: T-1 Content-Length: 773 Hi All, Can you believe that someone atually makes a lettering set for the T-1? It is CDS #N-281 (note it is n-scale). It contains circa 1945 (according to data sheet supplied): In Gold- Keystone border with PRR inside with Pennsylvania below and Stripes (1 thick over 3 thin, uneven spacing) for tender sides. Keystone border for nose. Road numbers 5505, 5508, 5511, 5533 and 5547 (2 each) for cab sides. Smaller road numbers (same #'s) for under nose herald. Cab door step edging to line up with tender striping. In Red- 3 Keystones for applying under Gold borders on tender and nose. In White- 5 pairs of road numbers (same as above) for marker lights? I paid $2.00 for the set at my local shop (special order). Hope this helps, Ron. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GLD828@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 97 14:21:25 UT Subject: Set Digest Content-Length: 12 Set Digest !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 21 Jun 97 17:52:33 UT Subject: TANGENT: US Robotics Bash Page Content-Length: 787 Howdy folks: As you can bet, I am thoroughly pissed off at US Robotics due to the two X2 failures I have had. I have launched a "bash US Robotics" page at http://www.dsop.com if you care to read about all the BS I have had to put up with. My effort with this page is to 1) warn users not to buy the USR X2, and 2) put pressure on USR/3Com to buy back my modem so I can purchase a third party modem which uses X2 technology (which does work). Any comments regarding this should be direct to me, rather than to the list. Thanks for putting up with my soapbox. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: relliott@mail.telis.org Date: 21 Jun 97 19:33:29 UT Subject: Re: CDS Lettering Set Description: T-1 Content-Length: 554 rond@efn.org wrote: > > Hi All, > > Can you believe that someone atually makes a lettering set for the T-1? It > is CDS #N-281 (note it is n-scale). > > It contains circa 1945 (according to data sheet supplied): Decals for an N-SCALE (???!!!) T-1 duplex loco? My first question is where can I get the N-scale T-1? Who makes it and how much? I have a 50 year-old Pennline (Bowser, now) T-1 that I restored and I would love to find the correct decals for it. I would love to have one in N-scale though. Regards, Roger Elliott !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Soolines@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 97 22:18:38 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 67 Do they have any decals in S scale by any chance? Jack Bartman !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 21 Jun 97 23:03:39 UT Subject: Re: Test... Is this list active? Content-Length: 523 On 19 Jun 1997 britton@pit-magnus.com wrote: > > From: hfitch@maranatha.net > > > >Look at the bright side Jerry! > > > > > >You never got talked into a PRR Hudson! > > > >Hey Jerry, look at the bright side you never got talked into > >a 2-8-8-8-2T lettered for PRR! > > Okay, I admitted my faults...I've got non-prototype Athearn passenger cars, > a DD40, and an SW1500. I admit it. So, uh, any N-scalers gonna get the Con-Cor GE U50 decorated PRR when it comes out in a month or two? ;-) -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: trains@redrose.net Date: 21 Jun 97 23:24:36 UT Subject: Re: CDS Lettering Set Description: T-1 Content-Length: 266 Roger, There is a set of decals available for the T-1. Bowser makes them. If you can get hold of a Bowser reference manual, it has the set in it. You can order direct from them. I needed a new set last year, I had to rebuild my T-1. Brian Brandt !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 22 Jun 97 09:27:04 UT Subject: Re: TANGENT: US Robotics Bash Page Content-Length: 1656 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A06E86ACBAF85645D8712FC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, you have certainly EARNED the right to "soapbox". -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS jerry@dsop.com wrote: > > Howdy folks: > > As you can bet, I am thoroughly pissed off at US Robotics due to the > two X2 > failures I have had. I have launched a "bash US Robotics" page at > http://www.dsop.com if you care to read about all the BS I have had to > put > up with. > > My effort with this page is to 1) warn users not to buy the USR X2, > and 2) > put pressure on USR/3Com to buy back my modem so I can purchase a > third > party modem which uses X2 technology (which does work). > > Any comments regarding this should be direct to me, rather than to the > list. > Thanks for putting up with my soapbox. > ----------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton > "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ > Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > ----------------------------------------------- --------------A06E86ACBAF85645D8712FC4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Larry P. Morgan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Larry P. Morgan n: ;Larry P. Morgan email;internet: lpmorgan@iquest.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------A06E86ACBAF85645D8712FC4-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: lpmorgan@iquest.net Date: 22 Jun 97 09:31:50 UT Subject: Digest version of PRR-Talk Content-Length: 1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to receive this discussion group has a digest. I have forgotten how to do this. When I send to the list server with a HELP command, it does not recognize the HELP command. Does anyone have a copy of the list server commands they can send to the group? -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Larry P. Morgan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Larry P. Morgan n: ;Larry P. Morgan email;internet: lpmorgan@iquest.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 22 Jun 97 12:50:40 UT Subject: Re: Digest version of PRR-Talk Content-Length: 1516 All directions are available via Web at "Keystone Crossings". Follow the "PRR-Talk" link. BTW: Send "set prr-talk dig" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: lpmorgan@iquest.net To: Members of group Subject: Digest version of PRR-Talk Date: 22 Jun 97 09:31:50 UT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used to receive this discussion group has a digest. I have forgotten how to do this. When I send to the list server with a HELP command, it does not recognize the HELP command. Does anyone have a copy of the list server commands they can send to the group? -- Larry Morgan lpmorgan@iquest.net Greenfield, IN (near Indianapolis) TCA/TTOS --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Larry P. Morgan Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Larry P. Morgan n: ;Larry P. Morgan email;internet: lpmorgan@iquest.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------401D52CA4C80AA6FCF07726D-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: relliott@mail.telis.org Date: 22 Jun 97 21:04:17 UT Subject: Re: CDS Lettering Set Description: T-1 Content-Length: 532 trains@redrose.net wrote: I had to rebuild > my T-1. > > Brian BrandtHello Brian, thanks for the info on the decals. What did you do to rebuild your T-1? I have the original motors in mine and I know eventually they'll need to be replaced. Did you put in new motors? I replaced the drivers with the proper Boxpoks and put in new valve gear, too, but I've been thinking it would be nice to quiet that beast down with some can motors. Any ideas? Thanks again !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: maddox@dsg-inc.com Date: 23 Jun 97 13:17:56 UT Subject: RE: TANGENT: US Robotics Bash Page Content-Length: 6733 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7FCF.87384160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, I could get all of your story about USR to load, but... You are really down on USR. They are one of my favorite companies. That = is all I would allow into the laptops I supported a few years ago. = When/IF I had a problem, they were replaced, no fuss no muss. I've had = similar experiences with MegaHertz. But... they got bought by USR, then = USR into 3COM.=20 I had compatibility problems with Cardinal modems, but that was back in = '94. Ancient history. Couldn't get them to connect to our dialup network = lines. The worst was Xircom. They blamed the modems on the receiving = end, which were Hayes Accura's. Bought a batch to USR Sportsters and = they worked out of the box. Right now I just got a couple of USR Sportster 33.6 external units and = am trying to get them up and running for dial. The only thing stopping = me is time. One thing I have learned, is keep spares around. When a modem or other = communications device is down, not even Overnight is fast enough. Good luck (even tho you run a Mac shop ;-) ) Doug=20 -----Original Message----- From: jerry@dsop.com [SMTP:jerry@dsop.com] Sent: Saturday, June 21, 1997 1:53 PM To: Members of group Subject: TANGENT: US Robotics Bash Page Howdy folks: As you can bet, I am thoroughly pissed off at US Robotics due to the two = X2 failures I have had. I have launched a "bash US Robotics" page at http://www.dsop.com if you care to read about all the BS I have had to = put up with. My effort with this page is to 1) warn users not to buy the USR X2, and = 2) put pressure on USR/3Com to buy back my modem so I can purchase a third party modem which uses X2 technology (which does work). Any comments regarding this should be direct to me, rather than to the = list. Thanks for putting up with my soapbox. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- Doug Maddox maddox@dsg-inc.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7FCF.87384160 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhAQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAkAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAQQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAFBSUi1UYWxrQGRzb3Au Y29tAFNNVFAAUFJSLVRhbGtAZHNvcC5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAA ABIAAABQUlItVGFsa0Bkc29wLmNvbQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABQAAAAnUFJS LVRhbGtAZHNvcC5jb20nAAIBCzABAAAAFwAAAFNNVFA6UFJSLVRBTEtARFNPUC5DT00AAAMAADkA AAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABIAAABQUlItVGFsa0Bkc29wLmNvbQAAAAIB918BAAAAQQAAAAAA AACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAFBSUi1UYWxrQGRzb3AuY29tAFNNVFAAUFJSLVRhbGtAZHNv cC5jb20AAAAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKJSwEEgAEAIwAAAFJFOiBU QU5HRU5UOiBVUyBSb2JvdGljcyBCYXNoIFBhZ2UApAoBBYADAA4AAADNBwYAFwAMABIADgABAB4B ASCAAwAOAAAAzQcGABcADAASAA4AAQAeAQEJgAEAIQAAAEVFNTNEN0E1NjFFMkQwMTE5MkREMDA0 MDMzNTEyNDEzAOQGAQOQBgDkCQAAIgAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAA AwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAg5V4N8X+8AR4AcAABAAAAIwAAAFJFOiBUQU5HRU5UOiBVUyBS b2JvdGljcyBCYXNoIFBhZ2UAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8f/EM2KXXU+/iYRHQkt0AQDNRJBMAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAATAAAAbWFkZG94QGRzZy1pbmMuY29tAAADAAYQ8nC2 BgMABxA3BgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASkVSUlksSUNPVUxER0VUQUxMT0ZZT1VSU1RPUllBQk9VVFVT UlRPTE9BRCxCVVRZT1VBUkVSRUFMTFlET1dOT05VU1JUSEVZQVJFT05FT0ZNWUZBVk9SSVRFQ09N UEFOSUVTVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAKAGAACcBgAAHwoAAExaRnVrC5nTPwAKAQMB9wKkA+MCAGNowQrA c2V0MCAHEwKDQwBQDuZwcnEyD+kyWw7fD+Z9CoAIyDsJbzLMNTUCgAqBdWMAUAsDBmMAQQtgbmcx MDMSMwumIEoEkHJ5LCcKogqECoBJIAWgdWxoZCBnD7AgB0ADIG+IZiB5CGEgc3QFsBZ5GeAG4HUF QFVTUgogGsAgCQBhZCwg2mIbQC4ccBh6WQhgGeAdCXAgCXAZ8RrwZG93BwOgAiAbYi4gVGhlXxrx HbECIB+RGkBtGvBmZGF2BbBpdB3ABaBt7wqwAwAHkB8CYQVABAAZ4/0ZMHcZYxnxHmAh0AIwG8CW dB8wG9BhBTBvcAQg4Rkwc3VwcAkRCYAZ4DsgQAfReR3wD5AZ4GdvhR8AVx8wbi9JRiJBlw9wJOIR MG8CYGVtHCC7I4Ea8HcEkB3CC1FjCYBlHCBuG8BmdQQRKOFt4ykhHwBJJ3YdwCayAJDGbQMQCsFl eHAGcQnwHyiQBCAD8COABdBlZ2HSSASQdHofAEIcUyeU5yXQBUAbIWdoLaEa8BtxhyeDHrMjJDND T00fAMcYfCayION0aWIDECCg9xrwJxUrpUMLEQuAB0AgEJ8EcTJQHCMjcSGxd2EEIApiANBrIyEg Jzk03R8AQStwK1EFQGgEABrC5x8ACFEZgG4nBUAZsiOB1m0bogWgbh/AYzQBG8B/GnIzAAdAJHAo 0A+wInBy/zTgMaAfwCFjHcA5cRqwNGO4WGlyIOEfBQJgYQeAfxmQI4IzZB6SI4IJcCiQaap2C4Bn KvBuHBF3NgAzD2An5EhhJWAEIEFj0mMIcGEnIWFCLdQlAN00sHQ+kRuxG3JTJJIasP8EkCHxPiAn lTmBJNEbMhoxyyOCBuB4HJtSaS3yKOD7B+AZMGopIDcBLZElABlRjwtQH9NBOy+AMy42KvH7QdEz InUDAEGwQhM8ABugvxhAPdIbsTcnORFCInJIoP8DAD3hAhA4tDoUAiAeISOA/z3SGrEkgD3SB4Ah 0jFgB4D9HJtPH8FMxCaSKhEnUArA/x/AHBEh4ULgKFAaoAqxB5H/CsAIYD4gJfQk8TNjGiAFwL8t kB8wBcAg4SmQAwBjMVH/AiAEIAEAPcAokCHSHlIowvcFQFSQLtFPKhAEoETjIeGfIFA6oQnwLdIc m0dvBHD3G9AWMDTgKFXDI4AbwBphe0sCJPFNANAaoFlwOSA70C0pICkYdEQt0S/r8wr0MaAzNgFA FsABQCcRVyCwODAQdDFH8C1ekk+9BRBnMxMsEAQQJcBlXpMfGHZdpF1xCxNdpmktMYw0NAFAMaAx ODABQKMM0GIzYiBGA2E6DIOKYg/QahgiQGRzJAACLiDhIFtTTVRQ+jpkXF0YdWNgBmACMGPHtQYQ dAhwZD8gHCBKSKAJHcAyMRwgMTk5N4FpEDo1MyBQTWaX/FRvY8csEAbQQeIaMQnAc0ZRZph1YmRQ ODBjx1SAQU5HRU5UOhth1wfxBuAxYGMEIEI0gCvwflBfsWA/YUpc9Au2GIlIzR5gZCAxBvBrc2PA GIm+QQQgWaJUAAOga1B0HCD/GTBJQllwUcEt8B4hTWAEEN9C8gEgGeAbUm5oZApQG6L/I4I5YTsA EiAYgyBQAxAIcN8HkU/FJrEp0U/VYUigD2DdJNMiNLBvIW5JIicAX7E/dxEYdRbCGXAmoAJAcDro Ly93fuAuZLZdQxlw/w/QIdAaQ3TRHbEbsR3hIrF3GyMZ8iOCQgXwehgbonDfG0AYdDkRK8Icm00a 8AERfwkRK7RMwQQgfSNN4hvAMf9a8DRwBKEpIEHiVYIbsRxAv0yiHcAbcnkAHCBCIjJbFd+DcScB X4F5wR6VLy+QZRH/iFU0syAhUqRkwCJBdOKDcP87MA9wD6Ak8UzBCyKKAwrAfzHBUqQ+ZIexOvER YF3BaOso4AkAZxrwKD5kHlArkv05gSkcmzWAGvBTkjXBBCD/CXAsMDLyScGGQlqBGXJrUP84wT1x OEMHgBwgP7BTQzQh3z0RI2U2ERyVIZFuc4BLg/+DcTFgPeGEBSASZMAj0EPY/16Tm2+cf50GGHQY EyywIJErGsADoDxkXD4YdCJL9x9AGrEfwUMDYAQQPdF88et9/REwcn8XL3+mcpZNsYFDZSJQUlIt VAdAvmt9AADAMZE94ZeyIZrP/6fvqP9gGBiSXHYLVRIiF+HrW4NaQGQeUHgKowDArMJpZKFnLQuA Y39jGIN9Aa7gAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMKCxWazsf7wBQAAIMCDlXg3xf7wB CwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQ hQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAv gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAA AAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAA AAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAwDVgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAwAAAAP////8eAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAnsM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC7FCF.87384160-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 23 Jun 97 19:29:32 UT Subject: Re: KC connection problems... Content-Length: 1082 Repeating my earlier post... I am still running at 14.4K. 8-( My "US Robotics X2 Failure" page has gotten national attention. At present, 3800+ people have read the page since 6:30 a.m. this morning...at 14.4K!!! Global Village is sending me a 56K modem, due tomorrow. USR never shipped the modem they promised to ship overnight last Wednesday!!! FTP is off. I'm taking the Web down for a few hours (now) to let some mail flow. Stay tuned. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: Rob Schoenberg To: jerry@dsop.com Subject: KC connection problems... Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 17:30:16 -0400 Jerry, I've had problems connecting to K.C. today. Everytime I try to access it about 1/4 of the main page loads and I get a dialog saying that the connection reset by peer. Other times I just get a host unreachable error. What's up? Rob !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rond@efn.org Date: 24 Jun 97 04:53:13 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 293 On 24 Jun 1997 galka@direct.ca wrote: > Yes, CDS has an extensive S,N,O,and Ho-scale Decal stock. > > Chris Galka Hi All, Does CDS make decals also? The T1 set I bought from them is dry transfers, pertinent information I failed to point out in my posted description. Ron. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hbonham@chinook.clipper.net Date: 24 Jun 97 10:53:52 UT Subject: Re: Decal references Content-Length: 56 To all, CDS only produces dry transfers. Harry !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 24 Jun 97 12:59:23 UT Subject: Modem update Content-Length: 1512 Sorry the list and Web site have been excrutiatingly slow over the past 24 hours. As I stated previously, I posted a web page detailing my poor support experiences with US Robotics (http://www.dsop.com/x2failure.html) and the fact that two of their X2's have failed on me. My page made national (Internet) headlines early yesterday and well over 5,700 people viewed this page!!! Around 12:30 p.m. today, I swapped out the USR 14.4K I had been using temporarily for a Global Village 56K X2. It seems to be working great so far. When I issue commands to the listserv, I am receiving replies in a half-minute or so...more or less what it should be. Web pages still serve somewhat slow, as the USR page is still being called heavily (6+ requests at any given time). Performance should only improve as the timeliness of the headline passes. Thank you for your ongoing patience. 8-) BTW: Commonwealth of Pennsylvania just granted $100,000 to extend the York County Rail Trail from its current end at Hanover Junction north to York...about 10 miles. It follows the Northern Central trackage. Don't know what they'll do at Howard Tunnel, which is still in use. Don't think they want pedestrians and bicyclists in the tunnel when a train passes, since the current track is down the middle of the bore. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: galka@direct.ca Date: 24 Jun 97 21:54:32 UT Subject: Re: Dry Transfers only Content-Length: 641 At 04:53 AM 6/24/97 UT, you wrote: > >On 24 Jun 1997 galka@direct.ca wrote: > >> Yes, CDS has an extensive S,N,O,and Ho-scale Decal stock. >> >> Chris Galka > >Hi All, > >Does CDS make decals also? The T1 set I bought from them is dry transfers, >pertinent information I failed to point out in my posted description. > >Ron. > > Sorry, Major Typo. CDS only does dry transfers, but they do them well. I had a friend who did not like to apply dry transfers to cars. so he scratched them onto a blank decal sheet. It worked well enough for him to get on the cover of Prototype Modeller. Chris Galka galka@direct.ca !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: railpix@philly.infi.net Date: 25 Jun 97 01:11:45 UT Subject: RAILPIX-SITE-UPDATE Content-Length: 1292 Hello all stations; New images on my RailPix Site are-- Amtrak Atlantic City train with Cab Car #9643 Amtrak #938 top view Conrail #1633 GP-15-1 Conrail #7736 GP-38 CSX #6839 Seaboard System #1115 NH+IL #40 Circus Poster from 1938. On the RailCard Page -- An old picture of President Roosevelt inspecting the Mouth of The Panama Canal from the back of a Observation Car. On the Railnews Page. Please enjoy ! Stan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----RAILPIX PAGE---------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/railpix.html ****************************************************** ---------Voice Mail-- 1-888-947-8542 --------------- ---New Free RAILPIX RAILCARD Page----- ---{Send Free RailCards}--- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html *************************************** Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel, is a train coming the other way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu Date: 25 Jun 97 09:00:00 UT Subject: More on Red Roofs Content-Length: 1596 >The information provided by Drew is correct for 1929. However, in the late >30's early 40's the roof and tender deck of some classes of locomotives were >no longer painted with freight car color & black mix but rather black/dk. >locomotive enamel. For example, the T1 never had a red roof or tender deck. > Likewise, the J1, While I agree that these classes did not have oxide red roofs, I am not sure about the tender decks , particularly on the T-1. I have seen very nice photos of the stacks of the T-1 which were clearly painted red inside, and the photos seem to indicate red tender decks as well. Of course, these were impossible to see in anything but overhead views anyway, and were usually sooooo dirty it didn't make a difference! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Pathobiology, Scientist, and Director, Nucleic Acid Services Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ ******************************************************************************** "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!" "Evolution is a fact, get used to it" _ _ / \ / \ ____\_/_____________\_/____ ____________________________________ |- _______/ O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / PENNSYLVANIA \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 25 Jun 97 10:05:26 UT Subject: RE: Downloading from "KC" Content-Length: 1034 I had two people notify me of problems encountered while trying to download "Form 109-K, Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders" from "Keystone Crossings" via Web or FTP. Both complained of being "cutoff" after receiving either 30K or 500K of the file (perhaps indicative of a corrupt file). Since these errors occured during the great modem failure debacle, I postponed troubleshooting until after resolution of the modem crisis. I just downloaded the file via Web...it took about 50 minutes. I works fine. However, I still recommend such downloads during the evening or early morning, as there is less traffic then. (Best would be unattended during the night, if you have the capability.) FYI: The Global Village modem is not only working well, but it is outperforming the US Robotics modem when it did work. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SCame0929@aol.com Date: 25 Jun 97 12:11:30 UT Subject: Modeling the line from Johnstown to Altoona Content-Length: 771 I have been interested in model railroading since I was a little kid. I would like to model a layout of the Johnstown to Altoona line. Since this line runs through my wife and I's home towns of South Fork and Summerhill Pa. If any one has a map or can help me out with some of the detail close to Johnstown and from the Horse Shoe curve to Altoona this would be great. I have riden on this line maney times when I was younger, and have some knowledge of the area. But some help would be greatly appericiated. The room I am planning to build this in is 20' L x 14' W, so I think I can get some of the Johnstown and Altoona yards in place. If anyone can help me out please E-mail me at: SCame0929@aol.com Thanks for listening. Scott Cameron !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 25 Jun 97 13:06:26 UT Subject: Re: Modeling the line from Johnstown to Altoona Content-Length: 1089 From: SCame0929@aol.com > If any one has a map or can help me out with some of the detail close to > Johnstown and from the Horse Shoe curve to Altoona this would be great. Boy, you've picked a really tough area to research / model. So little is written about the Horseshoe Curve! > The room I am planning to build this in is 20' L x 14' W, so I think I can > get some of the Johnstown and Altoona yards in place. What scale? This is a decent sized room. If in HO, you can use the grade of the mountains as a climb separating two levels if you are into a multilevel layout concept. You could even do "The Curve" as I believe it is approximately 11' across in HO scale. I only have a 10' wide room, which is a killer. Your 14' sounds great! 12' seems to be the minimum with anything to offer in HO, though I think I have a workable plan using the adjoining room for a loop. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 25 Jun 97 13:58:39 UT Subject: Was There A Northern Central Railway Logo Content-Length: 783 Anyone know if there was an "official" logo for the Northern Central Railway? The NCR took on the Pennsy name in the early 1900s. I have seen photos of old NCR steamers. "Northern Central Ry", "N.C.R.", or some variation is on the tender in rather unimpressive form. Gunnerson's book on the NCR shows a passenger ticket with a logo of sorts. (Don't remember the page, but it's near the back.) The current day "Liberty Limited" dinner train bears an NCR logo, but it is their own creation. Anyone know if there was a fancy logo and, if so, where I could get a copy for scanning? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 25 Jun 97 14:12:59 UT Subject: Re: Modeling the line from Johnstown to Altoona Content-Length: 1352 In a message dated 97-06-25 13:21:35 EDT, you write: << From: SCame0929@aol.com > If any one has a map or can help me out with some of the detail close to > Johnstown and from the Horse Shoe curve to Altoona this would be great. Boy, you've picked a really tough area to research / model. So little is written about the Horseshoe Curve! > The room I am planning to build this in is 20' L x 14' W, so I think I can > get some of the Johnstown and Altoona yards in place. >> Some considerations: Are you also going to do Muleshoe Curve, Bennington Curve, Cresent, Gallitzin? If so this is a lot of trackage through mountains with little or no sidings. If you go all the way to Johnstown there are a number of branches which can be added to feed the main. Also, you need to consider the C&I trackage at Cresent. Some of the branches would be Ebensburg, Stateline with connection to WM and running rights to Cumberland, South Fork, Jct with Black Lick RR. Also need to consider the alignment of the mainline through Johnstown and the need to model Bethlehem Steel mill. You may want to obtain the issues of Railpace which covered the Conrail main through this area. While all the PRR track is not shown on the maps, it would be a good starting point for selecting the locations to model. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 25 Jun 97 14:35:04 UT Subject: PRRT&HS Web Page Content-Length: 556 Every month or so, I wander back to the PRRT&HS web page and click on the "What's New" link. It still reads "This whole site is new as of September 27". What I want to know is, are they going to append that with ", 1996" in two months? But then, that would constitute a change in and of itself, wouldn't it? What a quandry...or would paradox be the better term? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SCame0929@aol.com Date: 25 Jun 97 15:38:21 UT Subject: Re: Modeling the line from Johnstown to Altoona Content-Length: 615 In a message dated 97-06-25 14:16:18 EDT, you write: << britton@pit-magnus.com >> Thanks for the reply. I am going to model in HO scale. I have a perfect place for the "Curve". I can expand the layout into another room if needed. The basement is quite large 25' W x 35' L. One half of the basemant is finished, so if I have to I will run the line into the finished part. There was an artical in a recent Model Railraod Mag on modeling part of Pa. but it stopped at Johsntown. I think that this run is really impressive due to all the mountains involved. Thanks again for the reply. Scott !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 25 Jun 97 15:54:45 UT Subject: Thoughts on modeling the Middle Division Content-Length: 1797 While a model of the Horseshoe Curve always looks impressive, it, and the areas around it, hold little opportunity for operations. For quite some time I had planned on modeling "The Curve" until I realized it would not hold my interest just watching trains go round and round. However, I offer these thoughts: 1) The line on the mountainslope above and below the curve could be built on a shelf in a family room -- outside a main train room -- providing running room between two levels in the train room. That would make "The Curve" a focal point in the family room...taking two feet of its perimeter on three sides. 2) If the layout is to include "The Curve" and east, Gallitzin provides an ideal location for a return loop since the tracks split and enter tunnels near each other, but far enough apart to allow a hidden loop under Tunnel Hill. 3) Cresson, just west of Gallitzin, has a lot of operational opportunity. Four mainline tracks with a full interchange, two branch lines enter here, helper engine terminal operations, and the action of helpers cutting off from the trains they just helped up the hill. In its early days, Cresson was a getaway for city folks, with a large passenger station and a grand hotel for its time (presently stands as the Railroad Inn, or something like that). 4) East of Altoona is Tyrone, with the junction of the Bald Eagle Branch. 5) On the east edge of the curve, you could model the Kittaning Point passenger station and coal docks. 6) The Curve itself had sidings in both "corners" to coal and coke branches. Just some thoughts. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 25 Jun 97 17:05:53 UT Subject: Hank Mummert's layout Content-Length: 321 A description of Hank Mummert's Northern Central layout has been on my site. I just added a drawing. FYI. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 25 Jun 97 18:04:10 UT Subject: Re: Thoughts on modeling the Middle Division Content-Length: 1981 > 1) The line on the mountainslope above and below the curve could be built on > a shelf in a family room -- outside a main train room -- providing running > room between two levels in the train room. That would make "The Curve" a > focal point in the family room...taking two feet of its perimeter on three > sides. 2 layers, with Horse Shoe Curve in between ... I like that. > 2) If the layout is to include "The Curve" and east, Gallitzin provides an > ideal location for a return loop since the tracks split and enter tunnels > near each other, but far enough apart to allow a hidden loop under Tunnel > Hill. Right. I have a map of the tracks that I will scan soon and put up ... > 3) Cresson, just west of Gallitzin, has a lot of operational opportunity. > Four mainline tracks with a full interchange, two branch lines enter here, Er ... 5 (!) Plus a flyover junction (now gone :-( ) to the branch. > helper engine terminal operations, and the action of helpers cutting off > from the trains they just helped up the hill. In its early days, Cresson was > a getaway for city folks, with a large passenger station and a grand hotel > for its time (presently stands as the Railroad Inn, or something like that). One branch joined in, but it soon split into 2. The branch twists and turns, then splits in Ebensburg in a wye. LOTS of grades on that branch. Great to model. > 4) East of Altoona is Tyrone, with the junction of the Bald Eagle Branch. You could compress the main east of Altoona to model Tyrone, with the Bald Eagle Branch, the siding from the B.E. along the main, the wye, 2 towers, the branch from off the Bald Eagle up the mountain (treacherous!!), etc..., and a little more compression gets you to Spruce Creek Tunnels. > 6) The Curve itself had sidings in both "corners" to coal and coke branches. _Way_ back when. Last one taken out around mid-40s, as I recall. See Dan Cupper's book. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 26 Jun 97 07:00:18 UT Subject: "Low Grade" Route Lives Content-Length: 926 Fellow lister Dave Wartel and I visited Bill Lewis' home last night in York. Bill is president of the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRRT&HS. While we were there, the "choo choo" phone rang about a half dozen times. By the time we left, there were six of us there, slobbering, in Bill's home -- a shrine to the Pennsy! Anyway, one thing that came up was that there have been work crews seen on the former "low grade" route between Columbia and Lancaster. Furthermore, one person reported that the Pa map on Norfolk Southern's web site (http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/html/conrail/pamap.html) shows a new route suspiciously near the ex-low grade route. It looks like the NS will revive this line!!! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 26 Jun 97 07:04:15 UT Subject: Enola Trackage Content-Length: 837 Bill Lewis spent several hours around Enola/Marysville yesterday and is puzzled by the following: There is a high speed single track that passes the Marysville station. This track goes across the Rockville Bridge. Just in from this track, towards the river, was a track - at a lower grade - that went down and under the aforementioned track and became the eastbound arrival track into Enola. Bill says that lower track is not gone and the tunnel is empty! How are eastbounds getting into Enola? Are they removing the e/b arrival yard and bringing e/b's in along the river and into the w/b arrival yard? ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 26 Jun 97 07:07:01 UT Subject: Ken McCorry's Central Region, Northern Division Content-Length: 545 Bill Lewis played several videos last night. Among them were two that featured Ken McCorry's RR that we discussed a few weeks ago. (A brief on it is on "KC".) This was the layout using Wangrow System One DCC and sounds like a club layout but isn't. Wow! We've got to set a date and make a field trip. The layout was awesome! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu Date: 26 Jun 97 09:33:51 UT Subject: PRR CD's Content-Length: 276 The Keystone advertizes CD's containing Pennsy sounds. Anyone have these? And if so, can you voice an opinion on their quality?? Thanks Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 26 Jun 97 10:00:39 UT Subject: Re: Modeling the line from Johnstown to Altoona Content-Length: 3292 Greetings to Scott and the group, Here are some books and magazine articles you may find helpful in your endeavor. First, _Trains_ April 1957 issue had a 15 page cover story article on the "World's Busiest Mountain Railroad". The article was by David P. Morgan. It has quite a bit of detail on both the east and west slopes. In 1985 _Trains_ ran, what could be considered, part two of that article, "Mountain Railroad Revisited" in its January issue. This article, by Fred Frailey, provides an update to the details presented in the 1957 article. Back in 1981, the now defunct _Rails Northeast_ ran a three part series with track charts in its March, April and May issues. The three part article, "Pittsburgh Division Main Line" detailed the line from just east of Pittsburgh to SLOPE interlocking just west of Altoona. This article is packed with lots of operational information from the 40s through 50s. More recently, _Railpace_ did a three part article beginning with its September 1995 issue on, "Conrail's West Slope: Conemaugh to Gallitzin". September's part one covered Conemaugh to South Fork. Part two in Jaunary 1996 covered Summerhill to Cassandra. The February 1996 issue had part three which covered Lilly to Gallitizin. The series included topo maps of the area. As for books, as Mark Bej suggested, I would recommend Dan Cupper's, _Horseshoe Heritage_ printed in 1992 by Withers Publishing. The ISBN for it is 1-881411-00-1. Dan's book deals in detail the Curve itself. Another useful book would be Kalmbach's _More Railroads You Can Model_ from 1978. Its ISBN is 0-89024-534-7. This book, edited by Mike Schafer, is a reprint of articles that previously appeared in _Model Railroader_ magazine. There is a 12 page reprinted layout plan article, "PRR's Horseshoe Curve and Gallitizin Tunnels", included. Now the layout plan does not meet modern layout design criteria nor is it a good operational representation of the east slope. However, the articlet has lots of useful information about and photos of the east slope area. The material above would provide an excellent starting point in researching this portion of the Pennsy. Dan's book is still in print. The rest may be located at larger swap meets or model railroad shops. Some larger research universitys have back issues of _Trains_. Hope the above information was useful in your project. Keep us updated Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 12:11 PM 6/25/97 UT, you wrote: >I have been interested in model railroading since I was a little kid. I >would like to model a layout of the Johnstown to Altoona line. Since this >line runs through my wife and I's home towns of South Fork and Summerhill Pa. > >If any one has a map or can help me out with some of the detail close to >Johnstown and from the Horse Shoe curve to Altoona this would be great. > >I have riden on this line maney times when I was younger, and have some >knowledge of the area. But some help would be greatly appericiated. > >The room I am planning to build this in is 20' L x 14' W, so I think I can >get some of the Johnstown and Altoona yards in place. > >If anyone can help me out please E-mail me at: SCame0929@aol.com > >Thanks for listening. >Scott Cameron > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 26 Jun 97 10:42:36 UT Subject: Route of S1 to World's Fair Content-Length: 1292 A few months ago we discussed how the S1 got to the World's Fair in New York City. Unfortunately, old posts were lost in "the great drive crash" so I wasn't able to reference our previous "final opinion" on the subject. I do recall that we decided the unit was towed to the fair, between flats, rather than being under its own power. I "thought" we decided it went north by some route to a NYC line and then east to NYC. The current issue of "The Keystone" - which I received yesterday - shows a photo of the S1 under tow to the fair...at Denholm!!! If the unit came via Denholm, chances are (IMHO) it stayed on the passenger main (with gentler curves) east to the Trenton Cutoff and onward to NYC. Perhaps, it took the low grade route via Columbia to Parksburg. At Bill Lewis' last night, there was an opinion expressed that the S1 might be too large for the Spruce Creek tunnels and that the unit may have gone via the Bald Eagle and low grade route. However, that would not have placed the unit at Denholm at all, as that route would have remet the passenger main at Rockville. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 26 Jun 97 11:57:08 UT Subject: Perryville Content-Length: 1455 Another tidbit from last nite at Bill Lewis' home... Bill and a gang went down to Perryville two Friday nights ago. Apparently they do this often. Railfans sit inside the wye where the Port Road meets the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak trains speed by at 90 mph on the NEC while freights come off the Port Road at 10 mph. They say there isn't more than 10 minutes between trains! Passenger trains pass so fast at just two tracks away that one cannot focus to see passengers inside the train! The news is the arrival of "the dance floor" as the locals call it. Passenger platforms have been built for access from the station to the first two tracks of the NEC. The platforms are wood, and have not yet been painted. Apparantly, the Maryland authority for commuter rail (I forget the acronym) is extending service to Perryville. They wanted to go all the way to Wilmington, but apparently Amtrak has a voice in it and said "no". With the commuter line coming to Perryville, Amtrak is adding a stop there - reopening the station - and will bridge the commuter gap between Perryville and Wilmington. Freight action at this site should pick up, too. Norfolk Southern plans to increase the number of TV trains passing, as well as step up their speeds. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rond@efn.org Date: 26 Jun 97 12:33:35 UT Subject: Re: Route of S1 to World's Fair Content-Length: 733 Hi Jerry and all, According to Staufer's Pennsy Power: "Getting 6100 from Altoona to Flushing Meadows on Long Island was a problem. Hudson River carfloats and tunnels were far from capable of handling her. She traveled east, dead in a short ten-car freight, pulled by an L1s Mikado. Most overhead bridges were cleared by easing underneath at a slow crawl. From Trenton, the S1 moved cautiously up the Belvidere branch, then via Lehigh & Hudson River to Maybrook, then New Haven and Long Island to her fairgrounds exhibit site." Unfortunately he doesn't detail it's routing from Altoona to Trenton. Knowing it went through Denholm and Trenton, do any of our "Eastern Route" researchers have any ideas? Ron. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 26 Jun 97 12:48:10 UT Subject: Re: "Low Grade" Route Lives Content-Length: 2422 > Anyway, one thing that came up was that there have been work crews seen on > the former "low grade" route between Columbia and Lancaster. Furthermore, > one person reported that the Pa map on Norfolk Southern's web site > (http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/html/conrail/pamap.html) shows a new route > suspiciously near the ex-low grade route. > > It looks like the NS will revive this line!!! Jerry, sorry, but no. The map does not show that. Let's follow the map from Harrisburg. From Hbg, there are 2 routes, with the river in between. The first line diverging diverges to the east of the river and is shown as trackage rights (a lighter green). That's the Amtrak main line. Following downriver, the next diversion is to the south. That's the York Secondary. The 3rd and last diversion from the Susquehanna is to the east (and slightly north). That's the Columbia Secondary. Note that where the Columbia Sec. joins the Amtrak main line, the map shows the ex- Reading branch going NW from Lancaster, then hooking E; the map also shows the ex-PRR New Holland Branch going NE then E from Lancaster. The Low Grade came off the Port Road still farther south, about at the point where the river, after turning somewhat to the E, turns again to the S. It then proceeded east, after a large S curve through Quarryville, to hook into the main line where that little stub is seen near the letters BVRY (if I'm reading it right). _I_ find most interesting the fact that NS will have nearly _ZERO_ coal trackage in Pennsylvania. Apart from the Monongahela, all the coal branches have been sold off. These include the branches north of Reading (ex-RDG and LV, some L&NE), the first set of branches coming off the Buffalo main west of Williamsport at Keating (ex-NYC), the next set coming off at Drift- wood (ex-PRR), and the ALY main, formerly the PRR main to Erie. Further, NS maintains next to zero coal trackage emanating form Cresson. Messrs. Thomson, Scott, Cassatt, Rea, et al. would be horrified. > Anyway, one thing that came up was that there have been work crews seen on > the former "low grade" route between Columbia and Lancaster. Furthermore, One nit: the route from Columbia to Lancaster is _not_ a low grade route. ANyone who's travelled by bicycle from the river to the outskirts of Columbia, or up Mountville grade, will attest to that. :-) -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 26 Jun 97 12:50:55 UT Subject: Re: Enola Trackage Content-Length: 1108 > Bill Lewis spent several hours around Enola/Marysville yesterday and is > puzzled by the following: > There is a high speed single track that passes the Marysville station. This > track goes across the Rockville Bridge. > Just in from this track, towards the river, was a track - at a lower grade - > that went down and under the aforementioned track and became the eastbound > arrival track into Enola. > Bill says that lower track is not gone and the tunnel is empty! > How are eastbounds getting into Enola? > Are they removing the e/b arrival yard and bringing e/b's in along the river > and into the w/b arrival yard? Conrail recently rebuilt that trackage. I have the _text_, but do not have a map of the area. Harrisburg-area PRR fans, here is an assignment. I can't do this on account of distance. Get thee to a Conrail employee and get some recent Phila. Division Bulletin Orders. You have to do this NOW, as they are soon (7/1) to change to a new Timetable number, and all old Bulletin Orders will disappear. The B.O. may contain a map showing the changes. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 26 Jun 97 12:59:26 UT Subject: Re: Route of S1 to World's Fair Content-Length: 645 From: rond@efn.org > Unfortunately he doesn't detail it's routing from Altoona to Trenton. > Knowing it went through Denholm and Trenton, do any of our "Eastern Route" > researchers have any ideas? With a photo of her in Denholm, and Staufer indicating a route via Trenton, support is lent towards my theory that she went main line to Harrisburg, then went either the passenger route or the low grade to Parkesburg, then via the Trenton Cutoff. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 26 Jun 97 13:04:07 UT Subject: Re: "Low Grade" Route Lives Content-Length: 438 From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org > sorry, but no. The map does not show that. > > Let's follow the map from Harrisburg... Give da man a pat on the back! Obviously some wishful thinking as I looked at the map. Your explanation appears right on target. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: trains@redrose.net Date: 26 Jun 97 13:11:25 UT Subject: Re: "Low Grade" Route Lives Content-Length: 144 Jerry, The former low grade route is all but entirely gone. The route that is shown is the line from Lancaster to Columbia. Brian !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: maddox@dsg-inc.com Date: 26 Jun 97 13:12:33 UT Subject: RE: Perryville Content-Length: 5956 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8232.7AB21C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, The acronym you are looking for is MARC. Doug -----Original Message----- From: britton@pit-magnus.com [SMTP:britton@pit-magnus.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 1997 7:57 AM To: Members of group Subject: Perryville Another tidbit from last nite at Bill Lewis' home... Bill and a gang went down to Perryville two Friday nights ago. Apparently they do this often. Railfans sit inside the wye where the Port Road meets the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak trains speed by at 90 mph on the NEC while freights come off the Port Road at 10 mph. They say there isn't more than 10 minutes between trains! Passenger trains pass so fast at just two tracks away that one cannot focus to see passengers inside the train! The news is the arrival of "the dance floor" as the locals call it. Passenger platforms have been built for access from the station to the first two tracks of the NEC. The platforms are wood, and have not yet been painted. Apparantly, the Maryland authority for commuter rail (I forget the acronym) is extending service to Perryville. They wanted to go all the way to Wilmington, but apparently Amtrak has a voice in it and said "no". With the commuter line coming to Perryville, Amtrak is adding a stop there - reopening the station - and will bridge the commuter gap between Perryville and Wilmington. Freight action at this site should pick up, too. Norfolk Southern plans to increase the number of TV trains passing, as well as step up their speeds. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com Doug Maddox maddox@dsg-inc.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8232.7AB21C80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiURAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAkAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAQQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAFBSUi1UYWxrQGRzb3Au Y29tAFNNVFAAUFJSLVRhbGtAZHNvcC5jb20AAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAA ABIAAABQUlItVGFsa0Bkc29wLmNvbQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABQAAAAnUFJS LVRhbGtAZHNvcC5jb20nAAIBCzABAAAAFwAAAFNNVFA6UFJSLVRBTEtARFNPUC5DT00AAAMAADkA AAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABIAAABQUlItVGFsa0Bkc29wLmNvbQAAAAIB918BAAAAQQAAAAAA AACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAFBSUi1UYWxrQGRzb3AuY29tAFNNVFAAUFJSLVRhbGtAZHNv cC5jb20AAAAAAwD9XwEAAAADAP9fAAAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKJSwEEgAEADwAAAFJFOiBQ ZXJyeXZpbGxlAB8FAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcGABoADQALACIABAAyAQEggAMADgAAAM0HBgAaAA0ACwAi AAQAMgEBCYABACEAAAA0Q0E0NTY5NUY4RUREMDExOTJERDAwNDAzMzUxMjQxMwDvBgEDkAYA0AgA ACIAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA 4LjN/1OCvAEeAHAAAQAAAA8AAABSRTogUGVycnl2aWxsZQAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyCU/8clVak Te34EdCS3QBAM1EkEwAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABMAAABtYWRkb3hAZHNn LWluYy5jb20AAAMABhBpc9nSAwAHEGIFAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABKRVJSWSxUSEVBQ1JPTllNWU9V QVJFTE9PS0lOR0ZPUklTTUFSQ0RPVUctLS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPTTpCUklU VE9OQFBJVC1NQUdOVVNDT01TTVRQOkJSAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAnQUAAJkFAADcCAAATFpGdTPaq6o/ AAoBAwH3AqQD4wIAY2jBCsBzZXQwIAcTAoNDAFAO5nBycTIP6TJbDt8P5n0KgAjIOwlvMsw1NQKA CoF1YwBQCwMGYwBBC2BuZzEwMxIzC6YgSgSQcnkshwqiCoQKgFRoZSAA0OUDYG4GwCB5CGAZYAlw kiAJAG9rC4BnIAIQhwXABAAF0EFSQy4YehpECGBnGHoK9GxpM542AUAWwAFAETBvdAWQQnQQdDE2 IC0fck89BRBnC4AHQAXQB5BzYfxnZR9zGHYehB5RCxMehmBpLTE0NAFAHdAxHDgwAUAM0CMTYiBG 1QNhOgyDYg/QYgUQAkApAiBAcCVQLQDAZ24YdXMuBaAZ0FtTTdhUUDolPyZDXRh1JEAfBmACMCSn GTAIcHNkYZMYUBgAdW4ZUDI2KlAAMTk5NyA3OjXJKzBBTSh3VG8kpyBQxwbQBJAEIG9mIAnACGBi cCh4dWJqHrEkp1DlGCJ2AxBsZSEfIiod1HMLthiJQW4ekBlABcB0eGlkYicgGuADYRpgYb5zBUAD AB6gGWAFQEIv8YwgTAfQBAAnIGgDcLxlLjagGHo1owBwZBlgEy2gFxEgdykRIGRv3ncDoCdAL4k0 AHc5QCRgxzQgKjA1EWdodAQgIJA0by4P4HAKsSkRbHnfGHQzwTqgOOA0AGgbMS2AlR6gbjtgUgtw bGYGIn8AkAVAC4AAkAEAPPEZUHdueT8hM9E+5FAJEQfxYf84AAeAD7ASkDw2B7AJERlAPzTiCFAY MDQgBbA7YW10eHJhazQAQyA+kT5AcFsJ4DgAYjqgNXE5D9BtnHBoLXA5EUGCRUM/cfcDEDAlA1Bl OtQmYRlQLYD/LZA/7DVxF0BEsjtgGTE6oJ8ggDqgM8IZUAQAbicFQF8EYD+zA5EXQBh0bQuAdb8e oAQgLTA6EAnhQ1UhL4B/NOAPoBcgM+JDdAqwBBFz7zlAPgA08TVxaiYwBUA6EslDEWNrQQVhd0lz NXG7AiAZUGMAcDOhGuFjJjD/OSIPoBlQThJNQwQgPplDY/YhGH4qkHdTEVHxGUJCcTZ2ICEtgSI/ AiogbmPlGVBmGnFyIhlgVaQJAP1RQGxG0QdAAyAnIBulTQi3C1EAMAWwbQQgD3B2GVDzLTBMUWJ1 AxBRkgXAANC/VzAEETSDPwI08DVwaUUC+zziV0FpD5Ae0Dw0T3ctcv9FNUjzWikaMjogBHAqUDfi /1rTUXI/UAVAWyIYdAqwC4D9HqBkG6s7gwBwO/EqUD8C+k0KwHkXATgBS7A2YCcR9zqgGvImYW1L sQXAQ3EDILwoSRriIKBPQRlIKRh0aRsxZXg9cWQasg+gcv8v4FcxOTtI9VBwY4I5IjtArxlgNcE/ A0lybxh0VwMQ/UuBZydBKlBbcE7BO5dC5uMPcDsRIHZvarILgFjx3zfTIIA0IFagM6AiO2BuQP8z wD7yGHRnBx3QURIDcBqy/zk7KlBC9RsxQJBqIzggNPD8b3BJlSEFCXB24AnwdGO9XOktN9MD8DXB JwFkIKD/PvNnBzhAdvBMBi+eN+JuSP8bqyRgRoMZYV1DNXE9Az5Rc1zxNmB1bDgAJbBP0CC/LeBl MRqAO2BBsQIQbENA/lMIYDPCA6ALUQYxbcYLgD8FAEIBPuQmIC0iLXJUVv9NmhqxYYEEIDiQN7I+ MR6g/3bwLeA+8l4QQ8QmQBh0H3P/iO+J/4pkGHQYEzWQJxQqULVlkGNjcW+AYAYAeYbxeVqhQWRL gQQAQxEnQHKfWTUDYAnBhdFa8UluWnL1XTRUBZBoM6AJAB/wB5D/GHQnDyZDGHUWwoCQNlACQKBw Oi8vd5RgLpI9/x4ygJAyyx1WC1USIhfhHHJzZYF2QG94CqMAwJiSQFmIEGctg6GS2H2asAAAAAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzAgTcXeU4K8AUAACDDguM3/U4K8AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAAB AAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAA AQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMA1YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMAA AAD/////HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAALRP ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8232.7AB21C80-- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rond@efn.org Date: 26 Jun 97 13:18:08 UT Subject: S1 stats. Content-Length: 2893 Hi All, >From the September, 1939 Railroad Magazine: Height....................................15ft 6in Width.....................................10ft 7in Wheel Diameters........................Pilot 36in ...Drivers 84in ...Trailer 42in Journals.......................Engine T. 7in x 9in ...Trailer T. 8in x 12in ...Drivers 12.75in x 13in Wheel Base........................Drivers 26ft 6in ...Engine 64ft 4in ...Total 123ft 9in Overall Length.........................140ft 2.5in Height of Deck Plate..........................85in Height of Bottom of Drawbar Socket..........37.5in Cylinder Spread...............................92in Cylinder Dimensions....................22in x 26in Steam Port Dimensions.......................2.25in Valve Travel (Maximum).......................7.5in Valve Lap...................................1.875in Valve Type....................................12in Valve Gear..............................Walschaert Boiler Pressure............................300 Lbs Boiler...........................Modified Belpaire Boiler Diameter (Inside).................91.0625in Length between Sheets...................262.8125in Flues and Tubes.......................219 @ 2.25in ...69 @ 5.5in ...276 @ 1.5in Flue Area through Tubes..................1033sq.ft Heating Surface..........................5001sq.ft Heating Surface (Superheater)............2085sq.ft Heating Surface (Firebox).................660sq.ft Heating Surface (Total)..................7746sq.ft Grate.................................96in x 198in Grate Area................................132sq.ft Superheater......................."A" Single Flues Throttle.........................American Multiple Nozzles...............................2 @ 32.875in Horsepower.....................................6500 Tractive Effort..........................76,400lbs Weight..................................608,170lbs Weight on Front Truck...................135,100lbs Weight on Drivers.......................281,440lbs Weight on Trailer Truck.................191,630lbs Tender..............................Class 250 P 84 Tender Water Capacity...................24,230gals Tender Coal Capacity.....................52,900lbs Tender Frame..........................58ft 10.25in Tender Wheel Diameter.........................36in Tender Wheel Base.............................14ft Note: Fractional Values converted to Decimal by poster. Hope this isn't "more than you want to know" BTW Jerry, I've saved all the S1 posts from back then. If you would like them let me know. Keep on Trackin' Ron. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 26 Jun 97 13:32:51 UT Subject: Re: Route of S1 to World's Fair Content-Length: 1123 > > Unfortunately he doesn't detail its routing from Altoona to Trenton. > > Knowing it went through Denholm and Trenton, do any of our "Eastern Route" > > researchers have any ideas? > > With a photo of her in Denholm, and Staufer indicating a route via Trenton, > support is lent towards my theory that she went main line to Harrisburg, > then went either the passenger route or the low grade to Parkesburg, then > via the Trenton Cutoff. I heard once, from someone (damn I'm being specific!) that it had to be moved over foreign rails 'cause of curvature problems. Sorry, I don't recall specifics. I would wonder if it could make the curves at Rockville. I can't think of too many other curves that would be a particular problem. If it _couldn't_ make Rockville, it could have been sent up the Bald Eagle valley to Lock Haven, then via the Buffalo main to the back side of Rockville tower, avoiding entirely the Rockville Bridge. But I thought I heard from someone that it had to take some circuitous route through north-central Pa. because of clearance, or curves, or something. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 26 Jun 97 15:20:37 UT Subject: Re: Route of S1 to World's Fair Content-Length: 1790 From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org > I would wonder if it could make the curves at Rockville. I can't think of > too many other curves that would be a particular problem. If it _couldn't_ > make Rockville, it could have been sent up the Bald Eagle valley to Lock > Haven, then via the Buffalo main to the back side of Rockville tower, > avoiding entirely the Rockville Bridge. The curves at Rockville really aren't "that" bad. Trains slow as much as they do because each end of the bridge requires (roughly) a 90 degree turn. If they only made a 10 degree turn with the same degree of curvature, they probably wouldn't slow nearly as much. The longer the curve, the more friction and liklihood of cars falling over sideways, enhanced by the length of the train -- which explains why short passenger trains fly through at 50+ mph! (But I don't need to tell you all of this!) Undoubtedly, the S1 slowed down to cross the bridge, but I do not think the curves were a problem there. As far as the alternate route you specify, the Bald Eagle / Buffalo route would miss Denholm, where the photo in the new "Keystone" is purported to have been taken! Another possible route (coming from Denholm on the main) would be straight through Enola and down the Atglen & Susquehanna to Columbia & Port Deposit to NEC. The curve at the west end of the Shocks Mill bridge is much smoother than that at Rockville. However, I think the curve at the east end is probably very sharp, though I have never been at their. Personally, I'm sticking with the passenger route to Trenton Cutoff theory. 8-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Demaclean@aol.com Date: 26 Jun 97 17:29:23 UT Subject: Re: PRR CD's Content-Length: 452 If the ones you refer to are the 2 CD John Prophet set from Semaphore, I like them very much. I often have them on as background "music to the ears" as I work on my N scale layout of the Torrance and Packsaddle area. The enclosed, large pamphlet is also very interesting. For me, they were well worth the cost. I would like to find other recordings of equally good quality, particularly with a lot of whistles echoing through the mountains. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 26 Jun 97 21:44:57 UT Subject: 1951 Book of Rules Available Content-Length: 405 I have posted the 1951 Book of Rules to both the Web and FTP sites of "Keystone Crossings". The document is in Adobe Acrobat format. The original was provided by Dave Wartel. Thanks, Dave. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: 27 Jun 97 00:06:19 UT Subject: Route of the S-1 and The "Lionel" effect Content-Length: 696 The problem of freight cars "sucking" into the inside of 90 degree curves is not new to anyone who ever operated a Lionel train - you learn very quickly that the heavy operating cars MUST be close to the locomotive.......NOT the Caboose ! Prototype roads were aware of this problem too - when cuts of empties got to the head end of long trains - but it didn't really become a serious problem until the advent of long and low weight "Trailer Train" cars. That's when the prototype roads started talking about the "Lionel" effect and began to promote rules concerning the placement of long - low tare weight cars - especially empties - in train consists. Dick Ross Cleveland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: asmiller@mail11.mitre.org Date: 27 Jun 97 08:59:45 UT Subject: RE: Route of the S-1 and The "Lionel" effect Content-Length: 880 Its something to think about if you plan a multilevel model RR with helices. It supports the arguement to "counter-elevate" the turns! regards Andy Miller > The problem of freight cars "sucking" into the inside of 90 degree >curves is not new to anyone who ever operated a Lionel train - you learn very >quickly that the heavy operating cars MUST be close to the >locomotive.......NOT the Caboose ! > Prototype roads were aware of this problem too - when cuts of empties >got to the head end of long trains - but it didn't really become a serious >problem until the advent of long and low weight "Trailer Train" cars. That's >when the prototype roads started talking about the "Lionel" effect and began >to promote rules concerning the placement of long - low tare weight cars - >especially empties - in train consists. >Dick Ross >Cleveland > > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: drm6@psu.edu Date: 27 Jun 97 09:24:59 UT Subject: "Counter-elevate" the turns was RE: Route of the S-1 and The Content-Length: 666 Grettings to Andy and the group, I would not recommend "counter-elevating" the curves in a helix. Even superelevation is not needed in scale model railroading as it is in the prototype. Superelevation, if modeled, is just for looks. The great layout planner, John Armstrong, even suggests not superelevating any hiden track. To avoid problems, track in a helix should have no superelevation whether canted in or out. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA At 08:59 AM 6/27/97 UT, you wrote: >Its something to think about if you plan a multilevel model RR with helices. It supports the arguement to "counter-elevate" the turns! > >regards >Andy Miller !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: railpix@philly.infi.net Date: 27 Jun 97 14:18:29 UT Subject: PRR-BRISTOL-STATION ?? Content-Length: 1109 Hello all stations; I have posted a picture of what I think was a PRR Station at Bristol Pa. at-- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/BRISTOL.JPG The picture was taken in Sept 1993. This building was directly below the Bristol Septa Station. { Amtrak NEC. } Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Stan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----RAILPIX PAGE---------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/railpix.html ****************************************************** ---------Voice Mail-- 1-888-947-8542 --------------- ---New Free RAILPIX RAILCARD Page----- ---{Send Free RailCards}--- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html *************************************** Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel, is a train coming the other way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 27 Jun 97 15:30:26 UT Subject: Liberty Limited - Expanding? Content-Length: 1591 One more tidbit from my visit with Bill Lewis the other night...I think I forgot to mention it. The crowd present seems adament that Ken Bitten's Liberty Limited operation out of New Freedom WILL extend into downtown York by the end of the summer. They currently go to a point about 2 miles outside the city limits. When I rode the train a few weeks ago, a volunteer on-board said it wasn't likely to happen because the remainder of the trackage was owned by the Ma & Pa and they wanted an exorbitant (sp.) amount of money for it. Bill's group - with perhaps some inside info - is that the Ma & Pa competes with York Rail (which I didn't even know existed). Apparently the Ma & Pa is union; York Rail is not. Seems everyone is choosing York Rail, given a choice. York Rail, they say, is running four locos; Ma & Pa one, and it isn't busy. They expect Ma & Pa to fold in the area, opening up the former Northern Central line from York down to meet that of the Liberty Limited. RELATED: Long term plans of MARC are to extend commuter rail in Maryland north to the New Freedom proximity. Though a low priority route-wise, Harrisburg's commuter rail plans include a route to York. Ken Bitten's Liberty Limited might be sitting pretty for some "off the highway" opportunities. Hmmm. Could there be rail service from downtown Harrisburg to Camden Yards...with dinner en route? --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: railpix@philly.infi.net Date: 27 Jun 97 19:40:16 UT Subject: Railroad Safety Directive Ordered Content-Length: 2222 This came out of Washington today. Reprinted without permission WASHINGTON (AP) - Prompted by two recent fatal accidents, the government is ordering changes in the ways railroads dispatch trains and conducts operational tests and inspections. ``We are concerned about any gaps that may exist in accident prevention systems stemming from inadequate testing or deficient dispatching procedures that can lead to train collisions,'' Jolene Molitoris, administrator of the Federal Railroad Administration, said in a statement Thursday. On June 7, a freight train carrying a load of chemicals rear-ended a coal train at St. Albans, W.Va., causing an explosion and vapor cloud that forced hundreds of evacuations. One crew member was killed. Both trains were operated by CSX Transportation. On June 22, two Union Pacific freight trains collided head-on in the middle of the night in Devine, Texas, and exploded in a huge fireball on a stretch of track controlled by dispatchers 850 miles away. Four people were killed. As a result of FRA inspections, the agency is ordering railroads to: Review safety programs of operational tests and inspections, inform the FRA as to what a railroad has done, and what it intends to do to comply with the program's objectives. That review is to be done by July 3. Ensure railroad operating supervisors personally contact each train dispatcher responsible for controlling train movements in non-signaled areas. This must be done by July 5. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----RAILPIX PAGE---------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/railpix.html ****************************************************** ---------Voice Mail-- 1-888-947-8542 --------------- ---New Free RAILPIX RAILCARD Page----- ---{Send Free RailCards}--- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/1030/cards.html *************************************** Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel, is a train coming the other way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 28 Jun 97 10:53:10 UT Subject: TANGENT-Looking to Change Jobs Content-Length: 596 I only mention this on the list, cause I know many of you are in Central Pennsylvania and in the IS /IT field. I am considering employment options. My resume and qualifications are available via my personal web page (http://www.dsop.com/britton). I wish to stay in the Harrisburg-York corridor, or telecommute. Please pass this info along to any appropriate company. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 28 Jun 97 11:22:19 UT Subject: (Fwd) Mother of All RR Lists Content-Length: 4139 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: Railroad@Cunyvm.cuny.edu Cc: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:20:25 -0500 Subject: Mother of All RR Lists From: southern.rr.club@juno.com (Southern RR Club) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE MOTHER OF ALL RAILROAD RELATED LISTS Post Date: Saturday, June 28, 1997 Part 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SAN FRANCISCO BAY FOAMERS Devoted to: San Francisco Bay Railfaning To subscribe send a message to foamers-request@smrn.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. SANTA FE Devoted to: Santa Fe To subscribe send a message to LISTSERV@UNL.EDU and in the body of the message type "SUBSCRIBE SANTAFE YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. SCRM Devoted to: South Carolina Railroad Museum To subscribe send a message to jmconrad@InfoAve.Net (Matt Conrad) Be sure to include your name, city, and that you want to join the list. SOUTHERN PACIFIC Devoted to: Southern Pacific or "espee". To subscribe send a message to sp-list-request@gospel.iinet.net.au and in the subject field write "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. S-SCALE Devoted to: S-scale model railroading To subscribe send an e-mail to s-trains@pop3.newriver.net. and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE S-TRAINS" WITHOUT the quotation marks. THB Devoted to: Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo Railway To subscribe send a message to majordomo@samurai.com and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE THBLIST YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. TRANSIT Devoted to: all forms of transit from buses to railroads To subscribe send a message to listserv@cc.UManitoba.CA and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE TRANSIT-L YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. TROLLEY Devoted to: Trolleys To subscribe send a message to trolley@cole-121.umd.edu and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE TROLLEY YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. YOSEMITE VALLEY RAILROAD Devoted to: Yosemite Valley Railroad To subscribe write to jburgess@infolane.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. *************************************************************************** I need subscription information for the following lists: Who should I contact for info about the list in question? Also, If you know of a railroad related list that has not been mentioned, please tell me! Thanks. >C&NW LIST >CONRAIL HISTORICAL & TECHNICAL SOCIETY LIST >RAILROAD RESEARCH LIST >INTERNATIONAL STEAM LIST >HO-SCALE STANDARD GAUGE LIST >CENTRAL PACIFIC C2JC, Nicholas K. / Editor Memphis, TN Southern.RR.Club@Juno.Com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THANK YOU! If you have contributed to this list, the editor sends you a heart-felt Thank you for the wonderful, informitive info you have provided! Your names could not be included do to the large number of sources for this list. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DISCLAIMER: *Not all info as been checked for complete accuracy. *It is possible that some lists could have expired, etc. *Also, some list's are not automated. *Some list's have membership fees, most offer free one month trials. *The author recieves no personal gain from advertising these lists. *List Info is subject to change at any time. *If you have problems subscribing to a list, write the post editor. *There is no guarantee to the author's ability to help with problems. =============================================== Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html ===================== === Homepage of the Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region NMRA == !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 28 Jun 97 11:22:59 UT Subject: (Fwd) Mother of all RR lists Content-Length: 8318 The question was asked about a general public DCC list, so I asked for a copy of the Internet lists and I am forwarding it to the PRR list for your informaiton. As I said earlier, the DCC Working Group still exists, but it is not open to the public as such. Roger ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: Railroad@Cunyvm.cuny.edu Cc: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:16:54 -0500 Subject: Mother of all RR lists From: southern.rr.club@juno.com (Southern RR Club) This is in two parts do to size limits imposed by some services. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE MOTHER OF ALL RAILROAD RELATED LISTS Post Date: Saturday, June 28, 1997 Part 1 of 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This can also be found at: The Cyberspace World Railroad http://www.mcs.net/~dsdawdy/cyberoad.html Daniel S. Dawdy / Webmaster ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BIG-TRAINS Devoted to: Large scales model railroading To subscribe send a message to majordomo@cirr.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE BIG-TRAINS" WITHOUT the quotation marks. B&O Devoted to: Baltimore & Ohio To subscribe send a message to capitolist-request@nshore.org and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE B&O YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. CHIGAGO SIGHTINGS NEWS DAILY Devoted to: Railroad Related World News Reports To subscribe send a message to cnw4400@ix.netcom.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE CSND YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. CNET Devoted to: Canadian National Railroad To subscribe send a message to listserv@crcvms.unl.edu and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE CNET YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. CPRSOO Devoted to: Canadian Pacific / Soo Railroads To subscribe send a message to listserv@crcvms.unl.edu and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE CPRSOO YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. CRITTERS Devoted to: Small Narrow-gauge and Standard-guage Industrial locos To subscribe send a message to LISTSERV@listserv.aol.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE CRITTERS YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. FEDNEWS Devoted to: Railroad Related Issues in the Goverment To subscribe send a message to cnw4400@ix.netcom.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE FEDNEWS YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. FREIGHT CAR NUTS Devoted to: Discussion on topics concerning modeling freight cars. To subscribe send a message to freightcars-request@fred.photo.tntech.edu and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. HO-N3 Devoted to: HO-scale Narrow Gauge Model Railroading To subscribe send a message to HOn3-request@gnu.ai.mit.edu and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. LAYOUT DESIGN SIG Devoted to: Model Railroad Layout Design. To subscribe send a message to ldsig-request@cs.utk.edu and in the body of the message type "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. LGBCHAT Devoted to: LGB To subscribe send a message to listkeeper@caboosenet.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE LGBCHAT" WITHOUT the quotation marks. MNRAIL Devoted to: Minnesota Railroading To subscribe send a message to Majordomo@lists.visi.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE MNRAIL YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. MODEL RAILROAD Devoted to: Model Railroads of all scales To subscribe send a message to listproc@cadserv.cadlab.vt.edu and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE MODELRR YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. 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N-SCALE Devoted to: N-Scale model railroading To subscribe send a message to majordomo@lists.stanford.edu and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE N-SCALE YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. NSLIST Devoted to: Norfolk Southern Railroad To subscribe send a message to nslist@reg.net and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE NSLIST YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. NS-NEWS Devoted to: Press Releases, etc. Direct from NS. To subscribe send a message to majordomo@nscorp.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE NSINFO" WITHOUT the quotation marks. NORTHERN PACIFIC LIST Devoted to: Northern Pacific Railroad To subscribe send a message to mailto:Whstlpnk@ix.netcom.com and as the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE, YOUR NAME, E-MAIL ADDRESS, YOUR CITY, STATE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. NYS&W LIST Devoted to: New York, Susquehanna & Western Railroad. To subscribe to this list, send an email to majordomo@broadcast.net and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. OS Devoted to: On-Sheet Reports & Rail Related News Reports To subscribe send a message to dannyb@access.digex.net and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE, YOUR NAME, YOUR CITY, YOUR STATE" WITHOUT the quotation marks. O-SCALE Devoted to: O-Scale Model Railroads To subscribe send a message to majordomo@cirr.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE OSCALETRAINS YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS" WITHOUT the quotation marks. PENN CENTRAL Devoted to: Penn Central Railroad To subscribe, send a message to majordomo@smellycat.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE PENN-CENTRAL" WITHOUT the quotation marks. PRR Devoted to: The Pennsylvania Railroad To subscribe send a message to listserv@dsop.com and in the body of the message write "SUBSCRIBE PRR YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. 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RRDIANA Devoted to: All Railroadiana To subscribe send a message to rad@railnet.nshore.org and in the body of the message put "SUBSCRIBE RRDIANA YOUR NAME" WITHOUT the quotation marks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Look for "Mother of All RR Lists ", for additional list's info. Please place Part 1 & 2, in a safe location (you may not want it now, but I gaurantee you will later) Thanks. C2JC, Nick K. / Editor Memphis, TN Southern.RR.Club@Juno.Com ================================================ Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://ecicnet.org/~rhensley/cidwelco.html ===================== === Homepage of the Central Indiana Division, Midwest Region NMRA == !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cmptrttr@bestweb.net Date: 28 Jun 97 11:28:06 UT Subject: Re: Perryville Content-Length: 1190 ok 1st of all MARC (http://www.libertynet.org:80/~dvarp/MARC/), aka: Maryland Rail Commuter, has had service to Perryville for atleast five years now. They run three AM (to Washington) and four PM (away from Washington) trains north or of Baltimore. All of them stopping at: o Perryville | O Aberdeen (Amtrak) | | o Edgewood | | o Martin Airport | | O Baltimore Penn Station (Amtrak, Baltimore MTA) and frequent service from here south For scheduels please visit (http://www.libertynet.org:80/~dvarp/MARC/penn_n-s.html or http://www.libertynet.org:80/~dvarp/MARC/penn_s-n.html). I have yet to hear about Amtrak adding a stop in Perryville, MD just six miles away from their already under-used station in Aberdeen, MD. Perryville also used to be an Amtrak stop as is shown by the stations address: *Perryville* Amtrak Station Perryville, Maryland 21903 M-F 4:45A-8:15A, and 5:00P-8:30P. Located at Broad St. & Hartfors Av. (410) 642-6429 This station is staffed by a ticket agent during the hours mentioned. If anyone has info on this becoming an Amtrak station again, please let me know, as I am in NY but I got to MD six to ten times a year. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bearpair@erols.com Date: 29 Jun 97 09:21:36 UT Subject: Orangeville (Baltimore) Content-Length: 224 Can anyone direct me to pics, maps and/or information about the Orangeviulle facilities from any period? I have some pics I took in 1984 but this was well after the facility ceased operation. Mike Calo Annapolis MD !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rncamp@harford.campus.mci.net Date: 29 Jun 97 14:01:47 UT Subject: PRR passenger car drawings Content-Length: 265 I,am looking for side elevation drawings of any car or class of car in use during the steam to diesel transion. My intrest is in scale molding .So info for scatch building or kit bashing would be greatly apprecated. Thanks ncampbell@iname !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 29 Jun 97 14:14:30 UT Subject: PRRT&HS is Lines West Friendly after all! Content-Length: 420 Okay folks, after seeing the Summer 1997 issue of the Keystone, I'm willing to admit that despite all this meaningless coversation about something called catenary, The Keystone does a very good job covering the western Half of the system. VLoved the story about the S.S. Ashtabula. Hope it inspires some modeling. Guess I'll have to download what I've got on the lines making up the E&A Division next. Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 29 Jun 97 14:15:03 UT Subject: Pittsburgh-St.L. corridor break points Content-Length: 413 Jerry, I suggest the following break points for the Pittsburgh-St. Louis passenger corridor: Pittsburgh-Steubenville-Trinway-Columbus Columbus-Dayton-Richmond-Indianapolis Indianapolis-Terre Haute-St. Louis I nominate another passenger corridor that we seem to have forgotten about but its train take up a lot of space on the form 1: Chicago-Logansport-Anderson-Richmond-Cincinnati Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: cmptrttr@bestweb.net Date: 29 Jun 97 16:40:10 UT Subject: Re: (Fwd) Mother of all RR lists Content-Length: 128 do you know the exact name of the NYS&W list for Majordomo@broadcast.net???? If so, I need it. Thanks in advance, Josh !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 29 Jun 97 17:02:49 UT Subject: Re: PRR CD's Content-Length: 77 Yes. Excellent. Re-mastered from the original recordings. Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bearpair@erols.com Date: 29 Jun 97 17:34:06 UT Subject: Reading messages Content-Length: 98 Is there a central repository of previously-posted messages? If so, how can I read it? Mike !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: 29 Jun 97 17:37:16 UT Subject: Re: PRR passenger car drawings Content-Length: 201 There is a wide selection of drawings of PRR passenger cars in "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering" by Charles Blardone and Peter Tilp. Published by the PRRT&HS Rich Orr !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 29 Jun 97 17:49:56 UT Subject: Re: Reading messages Content-Length: 576 There was, on an independant site. It is now inactive. Old messages will eventually be availble on Keystone Crossings. ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- ---------- From: bearpair@erols.com To: Members of group Subject: Reading messages Date: 29 Jun 97 17:34:06 UT Is there a central repository of previously-posted messages? If so, how can I read it? Mike !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: 29 Jun 97 20:28:08 UT Subject: Re: PRR memorabilia Content-Length: 90 Someone would probably pay lotsa money for this award. But not me. Rich Copeland !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hfitch@maranatha.net Date: 29 Jun 97 21:45:52 UT Subject: Re: PRR CD's Content-Length: 537 Rich, I am sending this out on the list because it sounds like others may what to have the same info that my questions are about. Where can you get these CD's and what do they cost? Are they completely PRR steam? Thanks in advance, Harry Fitch hfitch@maranatha.net Acts 4:12 ---------- > From: SUVCWORR@aol.com > To: Members of group > Subject: Re: PRR CD's > Date: Sunday, June 29, 1997 1:02 PM > > Yes. Excellent. > > Re-mastered from the original recordings. > > Rich Orr > !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu Date: 30 Jun 97 09:25:29 UT Subject: Re: PRR CD's Content-Length: 172 Thanks. That cinches it. I'm buying. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 30 Jun 97 09:33:43 UT Subject: Re: a PRR logo?? Content-Length: 497 > Recently I found a cloth patch in the shape of the PRR Keystone with the > letters > (in yellow) S and W intertwined. I'm not very well informed about the PRR, > and I can't identify the logo. Can you? Thanks in advance if you can. > G. LaPointe > SGLAP3@aol.com Greetings. I can't think of which RR this may be, if, in fact, it was a PRR subsidiary. I'm referring you to the other experts congregated on PRR-Talk@dsop.com in the hope they'll have more luck than I. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org Date: 30 Jun 97 09:44:08 UT Subject: Re: PRRT&HS is Lines West Friendly after all! Content-Length: 1297 > Okay folks, after seeing the Summer 1997 issue of the Keystone, I'm willing > to admit that despite all this meaningless coversation about something called > catenary, The Keystone does a very good job covering the western Half of the > system. VLoved the story about the S.S. Ashtabula. Hope it inspires some > modeling. Guess I'll have to download what I've got on the lines making up > the E&A Division next. > > Tom V. For my part, I just spent a weekend showing a friend around the likes of something called PFtW&C, something else called CA&C, plus C&P, E&P, and something else whose name I can't remember (C&S?), another one I'm not sure of (_&A?). Oh, then we threw in some B&O, W&LE, NKP, etc., and I'm not even counting present-day operators, only "traditional" ones. Those of you who have any fondness at all for towers and signals, get your pictures NOW. The N&W signals on the ex-PRR Sandusky line are up for immediate replacement, and about 1/2 are already gone. B&O signals have been replaced in various and sundry locations, and the double-tracking that is going on in Indiana will doubtless replace them all. When Conrail and Amtrak are done, we will have zero original-style position light signals, and no B&O signals as a fallback. -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 30 Jun 97 09:56:34 UT Subject: Re: a PRR logo?? Content-Length: 780 From: bejm@eeg.ccf.org > > Recently I found a cloth patch in the shape of the PRR Keystone with the > > letters > > (in yellow) S and W intertwined. I'm not very well informed about the PRR, > > and I can't identify the logo. Can you? Thanks in advance if you can. > > G. LaPointe > > SGLAP3@aol.com > I can't think of which RR this may be, if, in fact, it was a PRR subsidiary. > I'm referring you to the other experts congregated on PRR-Talk@dsop.com in > the hope they'll have more luck than I. Hmmmm. To honor Tom V., let's dub this unknown line "Somewhere West"! ;-) --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: geshick@velocity.net Date: 30 Jun 97 11:57:50 UT Subject: Couplers Content-Length: 451 Being new to the hobby, all my loco's & rolling stock have hook-horn couplers. I am considering replacing them with magnetic couplers such as McHenry or Accumate, being less expensive & mechanically simpler than Kadee. The McHenry ads say that new Bachmann equipment will use their couplers. Any recommendations? Also, has anyone tried replacing the Spectrum heavyweight passenger couplers? Jerry Shickler Erie, PA geshick@velocity.net !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: tom@cfnh2.mv.com Date: 30 Jun 97 12:21:57 UT Subject: Re: Couplers Content-Length: 584 geshick@velocity.net wrote: > > Being new to the hobby, all my loco's & rolling stock have hook-horn > couplers. I am considering replacing them with magnetic couplers such > as McHenry or Accumate, being less expensive & mechanically simpler than > Kadee. The McHenry ads say that new Bachmann equipment will use their > couplers. Any recommendations? Also, has anyone tried replacing the > Spectrum heavyweight passenger couplers? > > Jerry Shickler > Erie, PA > geshick@velocity.net Jerry, Have used them in my Bachmann 44-tonner with no problems. Tom Mahon !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 30 Jun 97 12:50:12 UT Subject: Re: Pittsburgh-St.L. corridor break points Content-Length: 1081 >From: TVondruska@aol.com >Date: 29 Jun 97 14:15:03 UT >Reply-To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >To: Members of group >Subject: Pittsburgh-St.L. corridor break points > >Jerry, >I nominate another passenger corridor that we seem to have forgotten about >but its train take up a lot of space on the form 1: > >Chicago-Logansport-Anderson-Richmond-Cincinnati > >Tom V. Rode it several times to and from Chicago in 1959 & 60 as well as from Cincy to Anderson for the last time in Dec. 1962. My how it had changed. :-( The southbound midnight train out of Chicago Union Station on Friday nights was very popular for Washington, DC and Florida connections. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 30 Jun 97 13:33:33 UT Subject: Re: (Fwd) Mother of All RR Lists Content-Length: 832 From: rhensley@ecicnet.org >I need subscription information for the following lists: > > >CONRAIL HISTORICAL & TECHNICAL SOCIETY LIST > >HO-SCALE STANDARD GAUGE LIST First of all, I do not believe the Conrail organization has yet added the "Historical & " to its name, though this is inevitable. Second, are these two lists even known to exist? I never heard of them. There is a Conrail Press Releases list, by Conrail, that I am on. But it is not a discussion list. I'd be happy to host a Conrail list, if there isn't one, and if there is interest. Feedback? RELATED: One of our list members hosts a Penn Central list. --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rhensley@ecicnet.org Date: 30 Jun 97 13:49:39 UT Subject: Re: (Fwd) Mother of All RR Lists Content-Length: 2012 >From: britton@pit-magnus.com >Date: 30 Jun 97 13:33:33 UT >Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >To: Members of group >Subject: Re: (Fwd) Mother of All RR Lists >> >CONRAIL HISTORICAL & TECHNICAL SOCIETY LIST >> >HO-SCALE STANDARD GAUGE LIST > >First of all, I do not believe the Conrail organization has yet added the >"Historical & " to its name, though this is inevitable. > The Conrail organization is NOT the same as the Historical Society. More information about it can be found at www.rrhistorical.com. I am a member of the Conrail Historical and Technical Society and it does exist. As for the discussion list, I know that they have been having trouble keeping it up and running. I am not subscribed to it. >Second, are these two lists even known to exist? I never heard of them. >There is a Conrail Press Releases list, by Conrail, that I am on. But it > is not a discussion list. > Not the same thing. :-) >I'd be happy to host a Conrail list, if there isn't one, and if there is >interest. Feedback? > As I said, there may not be one by this time. I believe that a college student was hosting the list and it may be closed for the summer. I posted the 'Mother of All...' for information only, not because I attested to its complete accuracy. Even the compiler of the list does not do that. :-) >RELATED: One of our list members hosts a Penn Central list. >--------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator That sounds interesting, too. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@ecicnet.org Information Systems Specialist - Ball State University - Muncie, IN === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: shadow@dementia.org Date: 30 Jun 97 14:16:30 UT Subject: Re: Reading messages Content-Length: 563 > > There was, on an independant site. It is now inactive. Old messages will > eventually be availble on Keystone Crossings. So, I've mentioned this several times before, and I'm not sure if it's useful or anyone cares, but I have everything starting 23 Dec 96 archived in an IMAP folder which you can read using anonymous IMAP. Pine for instance is an IMAP client; Just run it and then: g (for go) {cyrus.dementia.org}lists.prr-talk when it asks you to log in, use "anonymous" as a login name, and any non-empty string as a password. -D !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: britton@pit-magnus.com Date: 30 Jun 97 14:57:34 UT Subject: PRRT&HS Web Site: Nobody's Home! Content-Length: 785 Last week I made a comment about the lack of any update to the PRRT&HS web site. My point was that it hadn't been updated since last fall and that soon they would have to add a year reference to the "Last Update..." reference. But, then again, that would constitute a change. The page has an e-mail link for queries (burbageg@aol.com) but I tried sending to it, to ask that a tag be added to "PRR-Talk", and the mail came back: > The mail you sent could not be delivered to: > 550 burbageg@aol.com is not a known user Guess the PRRT&HS site really has slipped off into CyberSpace!!! --------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, Macintosh Systems Administrator Progressive Information Technologies britton@pit-magnus.com http://www.pit-magnus.com !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu Date: 30 Jun 97 15:31:43 UT Subject: Re: PRRT&HS Web Site: Nobody's Home! Content-Length: 417 > > The page has an e-mail link for queries (burbageg@aol.com) but I tried > sending to it, to ask that a tag be added to "PRR-Talk", and the mail came > back: I also sent them a query - a couple of months ago. The message did not bounce, but no one answered me either. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540; fax 409/740-5002 harperd@tamug.tamu.edu !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: dennis@bbn.com Date: 30 Jun 97 15:50:43 UT Subject: Re: Red Caboose X29 Content-Length: 1155 On 20 Jun, John Sanders wrote: > > On 19 Jun, John Sanders wrote: > > > > > [ ... ] The team of gurus were asked for > > > their advice and it has aparently been taken. The goal was to find a > > > commercially available color that was also a good match for PRR freight > > > car color. [ ... ] > > I called Bob Johnson last night and he said they had recommended "Poly > Scale" Zinc Chromate Primer as being the closest available color. > [ ... ] Really? I picked up a bottle of this paint over the weekend, and it's *seriously* orange, close to an exact match for Accu-Flex "light tuscan oxide red" (? I think) that was recommended for B&O wagontops by the kit manufacturer (Fine N Scale). Does this sound right to you folks? Were those colors that close to each other? It looks wrong to me, but the Pennsy last used this color about the time I was born, so I have no direct experience with it. Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ _______ ####(|oo=oo||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______||_______)##### I love the smell of brakeshoes in the morning! !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TVondruska@aol.com Date: 30 Jun 97 15:57:46 UT Subject: Re: a PRR logo?? Content-Length: 825 In a message dated 97-06-30 09:45:26 EDT, you write: << Recently I found a cloth patch in the shape of the PRR Keystone with the > letters > (in yellow) S and W intertwined. I'm not very well informed about the PRR, > and I can't identify the logo. Can you? Thanks in advance if you can. > G. LaPointe > SGLAP3@aol.com >> To all: Jerry's quip "Somewhere West" may not be appropos. I just ran through my complete (until I learn of still another pioneer line) Lines West Geneology (now on HTML) and found no listing for any road with initials consisting only of S and W, at least none that I've found yet. A Lines West page is not dead. AOL now offers 10 megs of space. That's enough for my purposes. The Lines West geneology is now 33 pages long. How can I make it searchable? Tom V. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jerry@dsop.com Date: 30 Jun 97 16:59:12 UT Subject: "SW" hat Content-Length: 412 Got to thinking...could that hat with the "SW" logo on it have been related to the "South Wind" passenger train? Don't know what colors the train used, but I think it may have included yellow! ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton "Keystone Crossings" http://prr.dsop.com/ Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! ----------------------------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zeolla@erols.com Date: 30 Jun 97 17:02:00 UT Subject: Re: PRRT&HS Web Site: Nobody's Home! Content-Length: 359 harperd@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu wrote: > > > > > The page has an e-mail link for queries (burbageg@aol.com) but I tried > > sending to it, to ask that a tag be added to "PRR-Talk", and the mail came > > back: > > I also sent them a query - a couple of months ago. The message did not bounce, > but no one answered me either. > Same with me. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!