RE: [PRR] Layout Room Paint

I did not intend my posting to be read as a slam against t= he train crew doing their job but rather as a personal note of frustration a= t being interrupted at a moment of prime interest. They are performing= their job protecting the passenger in the name of safety, plus protecting A= mtrak. You know drill, if a car runs into the side of train or du= cks through the crossing gates and is struck, it will be rep= orted that the train went several miles out of its way down a dirt road = ;to strike the car. In this case, if I had been hurt or killed, = it would have come out that Amtrak had failed to protect its passenger.

Moving trains have a tendency to kick up ballast and debri= s that have built-in radar for an open window or door, usually those with so= meone standing there. Also, there are clearances which will allow an e= xtended arm, with or without a camera, or a head to come into intimate conta= ct with flanged conveyances on the adjacent track or a relatively=20= rigid line side structure.

Just ruing the fact that I did not have the opportunity to= identify the vintage car(s).

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086902128-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:25:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals On the recent trip from Harrisburg through Pittsburgh, there were a few signals mounted on signal bridges that had the standard Pennsy position lights with a second signal below it. the lower signal was a vertical row of three white lights. In all cases the lower signal was lit with the signal above lit on the diagonal. Is this the same as yellow over clear? Thank you, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1086913509 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

On the recent trip from Harrisburg through Pittsburgh, there were= a few signals mounted on signal bridges that had the standard Pennsy positi= on lights with a second signal below it. the lower signal was a vertic= al row of three white lights. In all cases the lower signal was lit wit= h the signal above lit on the diagonal. Is this the same as yello= w over clear?

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086913509-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:07:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: "Snappers and Communications In both the steam and diesel era, the air gauge was the key to the pusher as to the headend's progress. Also, the crews knew when the train passed the point where the pushers effort were no longer needed. Steam engineers listened to how hard their loco was working to determine how hard to push. In the diesels and electrics, the ampere meter was watched to determine the amount of push. A common practice was for the brakeman to close the rear angle cock on the caboose then let the pusher cutoff. Have seen several photos of both Pennsy and Reading cabooses equipped with rods fitted to the angle cock to control the valve while the brakeman remained standing on the caboose's platform. On a ride on a Conrail pusher out of Altoona, the radio was used to start the train with the headend calling "train XX ready to start" and the pusher acknowledging with "this is train XX pusher coming up". The pusher started immediately upon getting the ready transmission. After that it was all air gauge and ampere meter until a call from the dispatcher to "ride it through". This had the pusher running through to Pittsburgh instead of returning to Altoona after the tunnels. Track capacity did not allow for the pushers to return solo; the pusher crew went dead on hours in Pitt returning the next day as extra engines on a scheduled freight. Never did ask them what rate they were making with the engines being under the control of another crew. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1086916024 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

In both the steam and diesel era, the air gauge was the key to the push= er as to the headend's progress. Also, the crews knew when the train p= assed the point where the pushers effort were no longer needed. Steam=20= engineers listened to how hard their loco was working to determine how hard=20= to push. In the diesels and electrics, the ampere meter was watched to deter= mine the amount of push. A common practice was for the brakeman to clo= se the rear angle cock on the caboose then let the pusher cutoff. Have= seen several photos of both Pennsy and Reading cabooses equipped with rods=20= fitted to the angle cock to control the valve while the brakeman remained st= anding on the caboose's platform.

On a ride on a Conrail pusher out of Altoona, the radio was used= to start the train with the headend calling "train XX ready to start" and t= he pusher acknowledging with "this is train XX pusher coming up". The=20= pusher started immediately upon getting the ready transmission. After=20= that it was all air gauge and ampere meter until a call from the dispatcher=20= to "ride it through". This had the pusher running through to Pittsburg= h instead of returning to Altoona after the tunnels. Track capacity di= d not allow for the pushers to return solo; the pusher crew went dead=20= on hours in Pitt returning the next day as extra engines on a scheduled frei= ght. Never did ask them what rate they were making with the engines bei= ng under the control of another crew.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1086916024-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:21:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: Frederick Ripley Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:36:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:37:24 +0000 From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:40:56 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1: VERY first impressions Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:13:36 -0500 A couple quick comments on the above. I will leave it to the detail = hounds to discuss rivets and piping, et al. 1. Good news. Produced in Korea, not China. I have been quite happy = with my M1b from China, but out of the box the T1 from Korea was = near-perfect and the J1 seems to be a good performer as well, with one = exception noted below. 2. Bad news. BLI is quite careful in the history of the loco to point = out the "clunk" of the steel bell versus the usual "clang" of brass, but = if anything, the bell sound is even higher frequency than the M1b unless = it is my imagination. 3. Jury out. My first impression under natural light was that the DGLE = was exceptionally dark (black) and a great improvement. However, under = strong bench artificial light I am not so sure. I may get a chance to = get to club tomorrow to compare to the M1b. 4. Only glitch: put it on the track. Set address 3 on my NCE. Nada. = On a hunch took tender shell off, loosened and reseated daughter board = on mother board, most of connectors. Voila! That is all she took. = Everything worked like a charm. Tomorrow or Saturday: compare DGLE and give it a load test. I note I have two sets of flanged drivers in the package. As best I can = see, only the middle drivers are unflanged. Am I missing something? = Why two spares? Though I have a brass J1, the mass of this loco still impresses me. I = recall a photo in an old Keystone of a J next to the N&W Y3 Pennsy owned = and remember how the J was so much bigger. Now to double head with the M1b! Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C44F2F.CB54B540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple quick comments on the = above. I=20 will leave it to the detail hounds to discuss rivets and piping, et=20 al.

1. Good news. Produced in Korea, = not=20 China. I have been quite happy with my M1b from China, but out of = the box=20 the T1 from Korea was near-perfect and the J1 seems to be a good = performer as=20 well, with one exception noted below.

2. Bad news. BLI is quite careful = in the=20 history of the loco to point out the "clunk" of the steel bell versus = the usual=20 "clang" of brass, but if anything, the bell sound is even higher = frequency than=20 the M1b unless it is my imagination.

3. Jury out. My first = impression under=20 natural light was that the DGLE was exceptionally dark (black) and a = great=20 improvement. However, under strong bench artificial light I am not = so=20 sure. I may get a chance to get to club tomorrow to compare to the = M1b.

4. Only glitch: put it on the = track. =20 Set address 3 on my NCE. Nada. On a hunch took tender = shell=20 off, loosened and reseated daughter board on mother board, most of=20 connectors. Voila! That is all she took. Everything = worked=20 like a charm.

Tomorrow or Saturday: = compare DGLE and=20 give it a load test.

I note I have two sets of flanged = drivers in the=20 package. As best I can see, only the middle drivers are unflanged. = Am I=20 missing something? Why two spares?

Though I have a brass J1, the mass of = this loco=20 still impresses me. I recall a photo in an old Keystone of a J = next to the=20 N&W Y3 Pennsy owned and remember how the J was so much = bigger.

Now to double head with the = M1b!

Bob Zoeller

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C44F2F.CB54B540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:57:03 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Pure PRR PL signals remain on Amtrak's main between Paoli and Harrisburg. Still all amber and still have the "Stop & Proceed" aspect. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: Frederick Ripley Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:54:16 -0700 (PDT) From: MICHAEL MERCURE Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 From: "E. Mike" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:17:21 +0000 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:51:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Hey Yuze Guys! Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know that there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1-2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Modeler. Here's a link... http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... awesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's photography will speak for itself! Take a look... Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS National Convention in Cincy this past month... Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Yuze Guys!

Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know t= hat there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1= -2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Mode= ler. Here's a link...

http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... a= wesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's pho= tography will speak for itself!

Take a look...

Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS=20= National Convention in Cincy this past month...

Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:51:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Hey Yuze Guys! Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know that there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1-2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Modeler. Here's a link... http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... awesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's photography will speak for itself! Take a look... Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS National Convention in Cincy this past month... Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Yuze Guys!

Now that Al Buchan has published, I suppose it is Okay to let you all know t= hat there are completed and in process photos of the upcoming Branchline 8-1= -2 Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the press, June issue of The Keystone Mode= ler. Here's a link...

http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

It was a tough secret to keep, but we managed. I can just say one word ... a= wesome! There are some fantastic close ups for your review. Bill's pho= tography will speak for itself!

Take a look...

Then You might want to browse the photos of the models from the PRRT&HS=20= National Convention in Cincy this past month...

Greg Martin --part1_ea.50a883bc.2dfaa25c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:17:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:46:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT -- SPAM From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <171D4569-BBB6-11D8-8C75-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dear subscribers: As many of you have noted off-list, this morning the dsop.com lists were hit with their first SPAM. The SPAM got through to the list from the mail server because the spoofed address was a valid address (listmaster@dsop.com -- me!). However, the mail server should not have accepted it in the first place. In looking at the "engineering" of the SPAM, and subsequently searching online, I have discovered that this is a pretty new technique (which I won't elaborate on) and discussion on how to thwart it started only yesterday. So I guess my site is on the "leading edge" of what's new!!! We (myself and other sites) think we know how we can plug this hole, and changes on the server will occur throughout the day. You may or may not notice anything going on. Hopefully everything will be transparent. I will report back to you on any changes that "might" affect your use of the system. I will also delete the SPAM from the searchable archive. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] EMD B units lift rings Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] EMD B units lift rings From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] G32/G32A gons Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:02:15 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > SUBJECT: Photos of in service G32/G32A gondolas > > All: > > Can anyone tell me of where I can find "in service" photos of shadow or > plain keystone G32 or G32A gondolas (not the later B&C rebuilds)? Books or > even the photo sellers (who and car number would be a big help) would be > fine. I already have some builders photos here, but would still like some > later shots. > > E-mail me directly at Garrett.Rea@att.net > > Thanks- > > Garrett Rea > Nashville, TN > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gatwood, Elden -- Tt, Inc." Subject: [PRR] RE: [STMFC] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:32:49 -0700 From: newrail@sover.net [mailto:newrail@sover.net] Subject: Re: [STMFC] Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2

Don;

Greg is not the guilty = one....

Elden

-----Original = Message-----
From: newrail@sover.net [mailto:newrail@sover.net]
Sent: Friday, June 11, = 2004 5:29 AM
To: = tgregmrtn@aol.com
Cc: PassengerCarList@yahoogroups.com; STMFC@yahoogroups.com; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] = Finished photos of Branchline 8-1-2

Quoting = tgregmrtn@aol.com:

> Hey Yuze Guys!
>
> Now that Al Buchan has published, I = suppose it is Okay to let you all
> know
> that there are completed and in = process photos of the upcoming
> Branchline 8-1-2
> Pullman Sleeper in, the hot of the = press, June issue of The Keystone
> Modeler.
> Here's a link...
>
> http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler_N011.htm

My Lord, Greg! How to = ruin a perfectly lovely Alco RS-11. First you
clutter it up with all that unnecessary = crap all over the roof and then
you paint it Pennsy!!!! Shame on = you! <VBG>

Don Valentine

Yahoo! Groups = Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT<= br>

Yahoo! Groups Links

=B7 To visit your = group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/STMFC/

=B7 To unsubscribe = from this group, send an email to:
= STMFC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

=B7 Your use of Yahoo! = Groups is subject to the Yahoo! = Terms of Service.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE2.6B71AB52-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] "Coal Goes To War" Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:08:47 +0000 John Frantz asked: "Does anybody make this decal in HO?" C-D-S No. 240, PRR Class GLCA "Coal Goes to War" c. 1942. Also available in other scales. "On these same lines, what classes were covered besides the H21? I was looking at doing a post-war fleet that where some had this painted out and others didn't." The photo that Bruce cited of GLCA 250391 c. October 1942 is in the Hagley collection and was published in the Winter 1991 Keystone. I suspect that Class H31 also received this slogan (built March-June 1942), but haven't seen any photos to support this. Conventional wisdom is cars shopped during WWII received this slogan (or "BUY WAR BONDS") and that there was no specific plan to systematically add them to entire classes. Other roads did paint this slogan on their hopper cars, but the format varied. Interstate did paint a taller version of the Pennsy "Coal Goes to War" slogan on some of their hoppers - Accurail did a special run of these cars in the early 1990s. The slogan on the Montour cars was very flashy. It took up three panels on the right of the car side and was about half as tall as the car. The format was a bold "COAL" above a underlined script "Goes to War". A picture of M 17394 at the Champion Prep Plant c. 1945 with this slogan is on page 138 of Gene Schaffer's "Montour RR". Ben Hom --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10811_1086980927_0 Content-Type: text/html

John Frantz asked:

"Does anybody make this decal in HO?"

C-D-S No. 240, PRR Class GLCA "Coal Goes to War" c. 1942. Also available in other scales.

"On these same lines, what classes were covered besides the H21? I was looking at doing a post-war fleet that where some had this painted out and others didn't."

The photo that Bruce cited of GLCA 250391 c. October 1942 is in the Hagley collection and was published in the Winter 1991 Keystone. I suspect that Class H31 also received this slogan (built March-June 1942), but haven't seen any photos to support this. Conventional wisdom is cars shopped during WWII received this slogan (or "BUY WAR BONDS") and that there was no specific plan to systematically add them to entire classes.

Other roads did paint this slogan on their hopper cars, but the format varied. Interstate did paint a taller version of the Pennsy "Coal Goes to War" slogan on some of their hoppers - Accurail did a special run of these cars in the early 1990s. The slogan on the Montour cars was very flashy. It took up three panels on the right of the car side and was about half as tall as the car. The format was a bold "COAL" above a underlined script "Goes to War". A picture of M 17394 at the Champion Prep Plant c. 1945 with this slogan is on page 138 of Gene Schaffer's "Montour RR".

Ben Hom

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10811_1086980927_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Philadelphia Hotel Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Philadelphia Hotel

Listers,

Going to Philly for the weekend, Since Drexel = is having its graduation hotels are hard to come by. Got a line = on The Conwell Inn 1331 West Berks Street Philadelphia. According to = the website it says No. Philadelphia. I know that No Philly is = not a great place to be. However is this in THAT part of No. = Philly. It says it's near the Liacouras Center at Temple = University? Is this anywhere near ZOO tower? Otherwise does = anyone know some good B&B's?

Thanks

Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE9.59949320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Philadelphia Hotel Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:21:52 -0400 Philadelphia Hotel

Listers,

Thanks

Chris Chany

------_=_NextPart_001_01C44FE9.59949320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:09:12 -0400 Subject: [PRR] J1 question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Can someone, either a consumer or dealer, confirm this question regarding the BLI J1's. I just need a second source to confirm. BLI lists an "unlettered" J1. What does this mean exactly? When they released the M1a/b's they also listed an "unlettered" version but that only meant no cab number or number in the Keystone Plate on the boiler. The Tender WAS lettered. I inquired about an "unlettered" J1 on an eBay auction and the seller said the J1 lacks lettering completely. Is this true? no PENNSYLVANIA spelled out on the tender? If true, why couldn't they do it the same way as the M1's and include everything but the cab and Keystone numbers. Looks like no "unlettered" J's for me. I will start with a numbered version and renumber the cab, Keystone and Headlight to get what I need.......Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more pleasing....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List, Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more pleasing....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:18:40 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary: As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these engines. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > List, > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <4C4E4085-BBF4-11D8-A1B7-000A95C04372@dsop.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk , Conrail-talk , Reading-talk From: Listmaster Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - Server Changes Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:11:33 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In light of this morning's SPAM, I have effected some new policies on both my firewall and my mail server. Mail and list traffic is currently getting through, but I can't account for all possibilities of flavors of e-mail clients. There could be a small minority who experience side effects. If you do, and you cannot get an e-mail through to this address to report it, you can call Desktop Solutions at 717-938-4270. I will not be returning the calls, but will act upon any information passed. I will try to maintain normal access for all users, but I cannot guarantee it. Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 18:31:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, if I were BLI, I would leave the Pennsy off the painted undec loco. There will be plenty of customers who will buy this cool loco and put another road name on or their own. Ask me how I know. First request I had for the distinctive Sante Fe 4-8-4 was for an undec so a guy could letter for the Soo Line. I had at least one guy considering a T1 with the club logo on it :-). Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Reynolds" To: "Gary Mittner" ; Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > Gary: > > As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the > tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered > un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. > > I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were > thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these > engines. > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mittner" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM > Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > > > > List, > > > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > Work! > > > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > > > and...... > > > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1...some good and bad news.... Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 22:45:29 +0000 From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:18:49 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <001001c44ff9$ab6ee8c0$52e3accf@Office> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:18:52 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got an unlettered M1a and a lettered one. The unlettered was completely painted. After applying Microscale decals I wished both of them had been unlettered. As good as the BLI lettering is, Microscale is noticeably sharper with a better overall look. Don Murphy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Larry Reynolds Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 5:19 PM To: Gary Mittner; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Gary: As I remember, the M1a and M1b "unlettered" came without the rr name on the tender. I ordered my engines "lettered", but Jeff Warner ordered un-numbered and has to put the PENNSYLVANIA on the tenders himself. I thought this to be a big mistake by BLI. Don't know what they were thinking as I don't know of too many other prototype roads that had these engines. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: J1 Question > List, > > Whoops, you can disregard my previous question regarding the J1, I > think. Did I confuse the "un-numbered" T1 with the "unlettered" M1a/b? > My "unlettered" M1b was quickly modifed and I can't remember if it had > the Pennsylvania on the tender or not. Anyone remember? My main point > was/is that BLI should have offered the J1 as an unnumbered loco, not an > unlettered loco, if that is actually the case and it is according to the > eBay seller. It is very difficult to completely hide decal film on a > welded tender. Factory printed lettering would be much more > pleasing....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work! > > PRR K4s Loco Pics: > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ > > PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:34:59 -0400 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Don, What Micro Scale decal set did you use on your M1's? I like Micro Scale stuff as they have a thinner film than most others. But I don't recall a set for PRR Steam Freight. Unless they released something new I am unaware about the only "Steam" set they make is the Gold Leaf for Steam Passenger Locos. On my M1b seen in the TKM article of several issues ago, I used the Champ "Long Distance" Steam set. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:46:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <24524-40CA4FB3-1887@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out003.verizon.net from [4.10.188.41] at Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:46:33 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gary, I used 87-66 which is probably the set you refer to. The long tender roadname is the same length as BLI's. Under workbench lighting the color is a "tad" less yellow that the stock lettering. Under layout lighting I can't see the difference. They are not at all like the Champ gold leaf decal. These observations are after the decals are applied and given a flat ModelMaster overcoat. The size of the lettering is identical to the BLI but sharper and a little less "fat." Tomorrow as time permits I'll shoot a few images and send them along. Don -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 8:35 PM To: DON MURPHY Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: J1 Question Hi Don, What Micro Scale decal set did you use on your M1's? I like Micro Scale stuff as they have a thinner film than most others. But I don't recall a set for PRR Steam Freight. Unless they released something new I am unaware about the only "Steam" set they make is the Gold Leaf for Steam Passenger Locos. On my M1b seen in the TKM article of several issues ago, I used the Champ "Long Distance" Steam set. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:30:38 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Signals

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 21:30:38 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt Observation From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt Observation From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR (?) Hvywt From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 23:20:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] about PRR-Talk Digest In a message dated 6/10/04 3:06:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Digest and format > From: "Harry Fitch" > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:35:14 -0400 > > To the list at large: > > I enjoy getting the digest version of PRR talk. > It's more often than not the best E-mail I get all day. > However it is getting harder to view because of > the numerous amount of text formatting goop that > comes in every message. > > The E-mail program I use does allow me to select plain text as the default > format > for messages I send to PRR-Talk@dsop.com. I can still send HTML format > messages > to other addresses. > > Is it possible that more list members that do have the option to post their > messages in plain text > could exercise that option for this list? I believe it would make reading > the posts more enjoyable. > > Best Regards to All, > > Harry > Harry, It sure would -- I hate that crap with a purple passion. Unfortunately, my ISP is AOL, and every message I send to PRR-Talk is accompanied by a repeat with HTML? garbage. It turns out the workaround is just too much trouble on my computer for everyday conversation. Thus, I am part of the problem, not part of the solution. My apologies... PS - has anybody figured out why some digests arrive with a green background, and some with a blue? Whatever color, I find turning it off improves readability. Still and all, I love the digest mode of delivery -- I may be late to the party because I only download once a day, but I get to read complete discourses, and often the answer arrives at the same time as its question. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_128.43cddfec.2dfbd093_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/10/04 3:06:12=20= PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: Digest and format
From: "Harry Fitch" <prrk4s@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:35:14 -0400

To the list at large:

I enjoy getting the digest version of PRR talk.
It's more often than not the best E-mail I get all day.
However it is getting harder to view because of
the numerous amount of text formatting goop that
comes in every message.

The E-mail program I use does allow me to select plain text as the default format
for messages I send to PRR-Talk@dsop.com. I can still send HTML format=
messages
to other addresses.

Is it possible that more list members that do have the option to post their<= BR> messages in plain text
could exercise that option for this list? I believe it would make reading the posts more enjoyable.

Best Regards to All,

Harry

Harry,

It sure would -- I hate that crap with a purple passion. Unfortunately= , my ISP is AOL, and every message I send to PRR-Talk is accompanied by a re= peat with HTML? garbage. It turns out the workaround is just too much=20= trouble on my computer for everyday conversation. Thus, I am part of t= he problem, not part of the solution. My apologies...

PS - has anybody figured out why some digests arrive with a green background= , and some with a blue? Whatever color, I find turning it off improves= readability.

Still and all, I love the digest mode of delivery -- I may be late to the pa= rty because I only download once a day, but I get to read complete discourse= s, and often the answer arrives at the same time as its question.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_128.43cddfec.2dfbd093_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] PRR Watches Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 06:53:00 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, My friend Kent Singer is mentioned on the inside front cover in the = current issue of the Keystone. The poster reprinted on the back cover referencing the dangers of magnetism of your = pocket watch. When I advised Kent that he was mentioned in the he replied with the following. Thanks for the note about the poster and mention in the PRR T&HS = Keystone, I didn't really know about it, although I was aware that the artist who created the poster for the article was = sending it elsewhere. I co-authored the article (actually a column) with a friend. We've got a regular column = in the watch & clock collector's magazine. In fact, the piece about the magnetism scare of the late 1880's was a = two-parter, split over two issues. As much as I was an expert on what you used to call "stick kits" and S Scale = history, I'm one of the top ten experts in the country on railroad watches. Since you're a flamin' Pennsy freak, I've attached a picture of a watch http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/PRR_Watch.jpg that the = PRR bought in the 1860's for its engineers to use. Before you start thinking of getting one, in 40+ years of studying = railroad watches, this is the only one I've seen. The rules at that time (starting in 1849) on the PRR were: "Each engineer will be furnished with a watch which shall be regulated = by the Station Agent at the commencement of each trip and must be deposited with him when the engine returns. If = not returned in as good order as it was received, the Engineer must pay the expense of repairs." Conductors furnished their own watches. I did not see anything that identified the poster as PRR. Kent is a = great person, an accomplished modeler, but is a NYC fan. HIISSSSssssss................ Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:08:15 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed two differe= nt sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify which would be = used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd= and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim --------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Guys, While looking at the Mi= croscale catalog, it showed two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87 = 1166. Could someone clarify which would be used on freight and pass= enger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd and unnumbr'd loco= s I need to do. Thanks Jim

--------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:08:15 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "sjlash" Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed two differe= nt sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify which would be = used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd= and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim --------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1"

--------------Boundary-00=_R5E7G6G0000000000000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 14:23:45 -0400 Jim, The No.. 66 set (I'm in N scale, so it's 60-66) is for older steam power = as everything is in imitation gold leaf The new set No. 1166 provides = for buff lettering as was used on freight power after 1943 I had used = the PRR Hood Units decals for newer steam myself in N scale. BTW, I know there was another reply, but it is in MIME format, and = mail2web cannot read that, so it was deleted here. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: sjlash=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals microscale Hi Guys, While looking at the Microscale catalog, it showed = two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87 1166. Could someone clarify = which would be used on freight and passenger and the approx dates. I = have three unltr'd and unnumbr'd locos I need to do. Thanks Jim=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_01E2_01C45088.DE8BE160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Jim,

The No.. 66 set (I'm in N scale, so it's 60-66) is = for older=20 steam power as everything is in imitation gold leaf The new set No. 1166 = provides for buff lettering as was used on freight power after 1943 I = had =20 used the PRR Hood Units decals for newer steam myself in N = scale.

BTW, I know there was another reply, but it is in = MIME format,=20 and mail2web cannot read that, so it was deleted here.

Gregg Mahlkov

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 sjlash

To: prr-talk@dsop.com

Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 = 12:08=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] PRR steam decals = microscale

Hi Guys, While looking at the = Microscale=20 catalog, it showed two different sheets. The 87-66 and 87=20 1166. Could someone clarify which would be used on freight = and=20 passenger and the approx dates. I have three unltr'd and = unnumbr'd=20 locos I need to do. Thanks Jim

------=_NextPart_000_01E2_01C45088.DE8BE160-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Freight Train Timetables Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 22:38:25 +0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings All. I am trying to put together a freight schedule for my Altoona model railroad. I have a few questions I'm hoping you experienced folks can help with. Here's the first: I know coal traffic east was huge through Altoona. As best as I understand. Eastbound coal tied up a number of tracks in many 1950s photo's I've seen. Yet in the freight schedules I've seen, there are no coal trains listed inbound to Altoona. In the 1959 schedule, a number of trains head out to Southport and Baltimore, but none inbound except a couple listed as "fill out". Thanks in advance. Ron Weinland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR HO S1 in Brass??? Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:03 -0400 Group, Can anyone tell me who produced these and how many they made? Any = comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would be = appreciated... Sam V ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group,

Can anyone tell me who produced these = and how many=20 they made? Any comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would = be=20 appreciated...

Sam V

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR HO S1 in Brass??? Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:47:03 -0400 Group, Can anyone tell me who produced these and how many they made? Any = comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would be = appreciated... Sam V ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group,

Can anyone tell me who produced these = and how many=20 they made? Any comments on if they were good or bad vs prototype would = be=20 appreciated...

Sam V

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C44FBA.93A0B230-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:06:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Train Phone Hi all Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division? Thanks Gene Proud -------------------------------1087095970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Hi all

Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division?

Thanks

Gene Proud

-------------------------------1087095970-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Web photograph F1 Mogul (Fireman's side) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:02:41 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Lists, Does anyone know where on the web I can find a decent photo the fireman's side of a PRR F1 or F1c Mogul that I can print out. There is a decent one in "Pennsy Power", but I would like one to use on my workbench to modify an MDC Mogul to an approximation of a PRR F1c. I found a good shot of the engineer's side at northeast.railfan.net/PRR_steam but the fireman's side is too small to see when printed! TIA Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:17:50 -0400 Group: I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. Does anyone know of a way to adjust this? I've tried start voltage, = speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes the poor sync. BTW, these babies have a true working coupler on the pilot. Great for = double heading. The double heading of these engines is not only great = from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block out the poor exhaust sync = from your senses. Regards, Larry Reynolds ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C45161.F8F4D910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Group:

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. They=20 run well, sound good and pull like a champ.

The only down side that I've noticed is = the exhaust=20 sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels is such = that the=20 wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much better.

Does anyone know of a way to adjust = this? =20 I've tried start voltage, speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes = the=20 poor sync.

BTW, these babies have a true working = coupler on=20 the pilot. Great for double heading. The double heading of = these=20 engines is not only great from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block = out the=20 poor exhaust sync from your senses.

Regards,

Larry = Reynolds

------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C45161.F8F4D910-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:38:19 -0500 I agree with the positive of a working front coupler. Also note that = they have three holes in the drawbar for tender spacing. It may be a = function of the tender style, but at no position is there any possible = chance of a shorting that I can see---that could be a problem on other = locos. Downside is that for whatever reason, in a tractor pull, mine would lose = out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost no load at all on a 0.5% = grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips through the next = stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a 1.5% = straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. Before adding weight = (which I did to my M1b, but not my T1), I decided to try the traction = tire. Unfortunately, I put it in the rear driver position and got not = much better results. I will see if putting it in the front, sprung = driver position will work but first I have to solve the gear stripping = or valve gear lockup that resulted from my "workmanship" when I did = this. I had to put it aside for other things this weekend and will = spend some bench time on it Monday. I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there is something wrong in the = equalization that can be corrected. Re the synchronization, I doubleheaded mine with my M1b. Shouldn't the = two engines with nearly the same driver diameter have the same chuff = rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing something? I too noticed a = different rate with the J.=20 Following up on a previous post of mine, the DGLE color on the J is = about the same as the M1b. OK with me under clubroom lighting and in = view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered.=20 Only other complaint is there are no directions for changing out the = drivers. I used mine from the M1b. I seem to more predictable results using the doppler effect on the = whistle with the J than with the M1b. Both sound good. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Larry Reynolds=20 I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C4516D.376C8340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree with the positive of a working = front=20 coupler. Also note that they have three holes in the drawbar = for=20 tender spacing. It may be a function of the tender style, but at = no=20 position is there any possible chance of a shorting that I can = see---that could=20 be a problem on other locos.

Downside is that for whatever reason, = in a tractor=20 pull, mine would lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost = no load=20 at all on a 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips = through=20 the next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a = 1.5%=20 straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. Before adding = weight (which=20 I did to my M1b, but not my T1), I decided to try the traction = tire. =20 Unfortunately, I put it in the rear driver position and got = not much=20 better results. I will see if putting it in the front, sprung = driver=20 position will work but first I have to solve the gear stripping or = valve=20 gear lockup that resulted from my "workmanship" when I did this. I = had to=20 put it aside for other things this weekend and will spend some bench = time on it=20 Monday.

I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there = is something=20 wrong in the equalization that can be corrected.

Re the synchronization, I doubleheaded = mine with my=20 M1b. Shouldn't the two engines with nearly the same driver = diameter have=20 the same chuff rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing=20 something? I too noticed a different rate with the = J.

Following up on a previous post of = mine, the DGLE=20 color on the J is about the same as the M1b. OK with me under = clubroom=20 lighting and in view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered. =

Only other complaint is there are no = directions for=20 changing out the drivers. I used mine from the M1b.

I seem to more predictable = results using the=20 doppler effect on the whistle with the J than with the M1b. Both = sound=20 good.

Bob Zoeller

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Larry = Reynolds=20

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've noticed = is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels = is such=20 that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much=20 better.

------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C4516D.376C8340-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:58:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob, Prelimanary reports from a BLI J1 owner I know may be the reason your J1 is acting the way it is as well. John placed his J1 on a glass surface and noticed the 4th and 5th drivers were not touching the the surface. Not sure if this is limited to his J1 or a design flaw. He overcome this by adding shims above the bearings to lower the axle to the railhead. All drivers touch the rails now. He will put it to a layout test sometime in the near future. He will at that time test with the traction tire as well. I am gathering the pluses and minuses on this loco for a review in a future TKM. So far the Pluses are winning (G). But the minuses are showing up as well. I will receive my J this week and I can compare mine with the known problems as of now. But, the overall opinion so far is BLI hit the target. May not be a Bullseye but close enough for most modelers.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Exhaust sync Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:32:52 -0400 I have been double heading my J1 with my M1. I was hoping to get slow = drift into and out of sync with each other. This would be due to the = slight difference in driver diam (70" and 72" I think). But they same = to be about the same. Now this raises a question. Since there is no = cam, the chuff rate must be set by voltage from voltage. Now this could = be track voltage or the motor back EMF voltage. The latter would more = exactly follow the speed of each loco. Back EMF can be deduced by = subtracting an estimate of the armature IR drop from the track voltage. = But, for all this to be able to capture the subtle differences in driver = diameter, some careful adjustment would be required. I suspect, = however, I am getting almost the same cuff per volt on each loco. Any = comments from others re this? Fred Rea PS Please don't banish me to an EE list before I get a reply. Or, does = all this belong in the world of patent litigation? I hope that conflict = is only re using back EMF for speed contol. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Larry Reynolds=20 To: PRR Talk ; Digitrax Group=20 Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 4:17 PM Subject: [PRR] BLI J1 Group: I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, are = very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good and = pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in my = opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. Does anyone know of a way to adjust this? I've tried start voltage, = speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes the poor sync. BTW, these babies have a true working coupler on the pilot. Great for = double heading. The double heading of these engines is not only great = from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to block out the poor exhaust sync = from your senses. Regards, Larry Reynolds ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C4518D.FB622B90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have been double heading my J1 with my M1. I = was=20 hoping to get slow drift into and out of sync with each other. = This would=20 be due to the slight difference in driver diam (70" and 72" I=20 think). But they same to be about the same. Now this raises = a=20 question. Since there is no cam, the chuff rate must be set = by=20 voltage from voltage. Now this could be track voltage or the = motor=20 back EMF voltage. The latter would more exactly follow the speed = of each=20 loco. Back EMF can be deduced by subtracting an estimate of the = armature=20 IR drop from the track voltage. But, for all this to be able to = capture=20 the subtle differences in driver diameter, some careful adjustment would = be=20 required. I suspect, however, I am getting almost the same cuff = per volt=20 on each loco. Any comments from others re this?

Fred Rea

PS Please don't banish me to an EE list before I get = a=20 reply. Or, does all this belong in the world of patent litigation? = I hope=20 that conflict is only re using back EMF for speed contol.

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Larry = Reynolds=20
To: PRR Talk ; Digitrax=20 Group

Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 = 4:17 PM

Subject: [PRR] BLI J1

Group:

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've noticed = is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the wheels = is such=20 that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel = speed. =20 I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and notice=20 that these are much better.

Does anyone know of a way to adjust = this? =20 I've tried start voltage, speed tables, etcetera, but nothing changes = the=20 poor sync.

BTW, these babies have a true working = coupler on=20 the pilot. Great for double heading. The double heading of = these=20 engines is not only great from an esthetic viewpoint, it tends to = block out=20 the poor exhaust sync from your senses.

Regards,

Larry=20 Reynolds

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C4518D.FB622B90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:18:59 -0400 =20 I agree with the positive of a working front coupler. Also note that = they have three holes in the drawbar for tender spacing. It may be a = function of the tender style, but at no position is there any possible = chance of a shorting that I can see---that could be a problem on other = locos. Bob: I really like the three positions of the drawbar holes. I find the = center position to work well. The closest position is too close for = most layouts. Downside is that for whatever reason, in a tractor pull, mine would = lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips with almost no load at all on a = 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated curve, slips through the = next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then slips on a 1.5% = straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. =20 I am wondering (will ask BLI) if there is something wrong in the = equalization that can be corrected. Are we talking the same engine here? I added 28 cars to one engine = and it pulled the train up a 1.5% grade and through two super elevated = curves, (large radius), with no problems. I'll try it again, all the = way up the hill, and report on the test later. Re the synchronization, I double header mine with my M1b. Shouldn't = the two engines with nearly the same driver diameter have the same chuff = rate, albeit out of synch, or am I missing something? I too noticed a = different rate with the J. Yes, the exhaust sync, as I reported, is disappointing. It appears to = be about four chuffs to each 1 1/2 driver revolution. As the speed = increases, the drivers appear to go two revolutions to every four beats = of exhaust. Not Good! I'll probable keep mine double headed. = Possibly put into helper service on the East Slope. Following up on a previous post of mine, the DGLE color on the J is = about the same as the M1b. OK with me under clubroom lighting and in = view of the fact that they will eventually be weathered.=20 The color seems, to me, blacker than the M1s. Regardless, they are = beautiful!=20 The only other bit of disappointment is there seems to no sound = reduction in exhaust when hitting the dynamic brake function, (I believe = function five), which is nice for drifting. Regards, Larry Reynolds =20 I picked up two BLI J-1's today and must report that these, IMHO, = are very well done and beautiful locomotives. They run well, sound good = and pull like a champ. =20 The only down side that I've noticed is the exhaust sync. Bad, in = my opinion. The timing of the wheels is such that the wheels run well = ahead of the exhaust cadence. This is, however, better that the exhaust = running ahead of the wheel speed. I've compared this to the sync of the = BLI M-1's and notice that these are much better. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C451E8.3EB9C100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I agree with the positive of a = working front=20 coupler. Also note that they have three holes in the = drawbar for=20 tender spacing. It may be a function of the tender style, but at = no=20 position is there any possible chance of a shorting that I can = see---that=20 could be a problem on other locos.

Bob:

I really like the three = positions of=20 the drawbar holes. I find the center position to work = well. The=20 closest position is too close for most = layouts.

Downside is that for whatever reason, = in a=20 tractor pull, mine would lose out to a Bachmann K4. It slips = with almost=20 no load at all on a 0.5% grade on a 40 inch radius superelevated = curve, slips=20 through the next stretch of complicated trackwork on a flat and then = slips on=20 a 1.5% straight grade with anything more than 5 cars. =20

I am wondering (will ask BLI) if = there is=20 something wrong in the equalization that can be = corrected.

Are we talking the same = engine=20 here? I added 28 cars to one engine and it pulled the train up a = 1.5%=20 grade and through two super elevated curves, (large radius), with no=20 problems. I'll try it again, all the way up the hill, and report = on the=20 test later.

Re the synchronization, I double = header mine with=20 my M1b. Shouldn't the two engines with nearly the same driver = diameter=20 have the same chuff rate, albeit out of synch, or am = I missing=20 something? I too noticed a different rate with the = J.

Yes, the exhaust sync, as = I reported,=20 is disappointing. It appears to be about four chuffs to each 1 = 1/2=20 driver revolution. As the speed increases, the drivers appear to = go two=20 revolutions to every four beats of exhaust. Not = Good! I'll probable keep mine double = headed. Possibly=20 put into helper service on the East Slope.

Following up on a previous post of = mine, the DGLE=20 color on the J is about the same as the M1b. OK with me under = clubroom=20 lighting and in view of the fact that they will eventually be = weathered.=20

The color seems, to me, = blacker than=20 the M1s. Regardless, they are=20 beautiful!

The only other bit of = disappointment=20 is there seems to no sound reduction in exhaust when hitting the = dynamic brake=20 function, (I believe function five), which is nice for=20 drifting.

Regards,

Larry=20 Reynolds

I picked up two BLI J-1's today and = must report=20 that these, IMHO, are very well done and beautiful = locomotives. =20 They run well, sound good and pull like a champ. =

The only down side that I've = noticed is the=20 exhaust sync. Bad, in my opinion. The timing of the = wheels is=20 such that the wheels run well ahead of the exhaust cadence. = This is,=20 however, better that the exhaust running ahead of the wheel=20 speed. I've compared this to the sync of the BLI M-1's and = notice=20 that these are much=20 better.

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C451E8.3EB9C100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Train Phone Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:47:35 -0400 Absolutely. The BS-12ms were the mainstay operating in pairs up until 1965 when they were transferred out. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:06 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Train Phone Hi all Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division? Thanks Gene Proud ------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C451F4.A8B08FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Absolutely. The BS-12ms were the = mainstay=20 operating in pairs up until 1965 when they were transferred = out.

WDV

-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 AUDIOWIZARD1@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:06 = PM
To: prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Train=20 Phone

Hi all

Did they use Train Phone's on the delmarva division?

Thanks

Gene Proud

------=_NextPart_000_00B4_01C451F4.A8B08FB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:54:27 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <4277-40CCDC12-1889@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Is the traction tire option included with the J1? If so that's good = new for everyone. Some folks hate traction tires, while others (like = myself) feel they are an acceptable way to get around the fact that we don't = have working sand but do have steep grades. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Gary = Mittner Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 6:58 PM To: Bob Zoeller Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J1 Bob, Prelimanary reports from a BLI J1 owner I know may be the reason your = J1 is acting the way it is as well. John placed his J1 on a glass surface = and noticed the 4th and 5th drivers were not touching the the surface. Not = sure if this is limited to his J1 or a design flaw. He overcome this by = adding shims above the bearings to lower the axle to the railhead. All drivers touch the rails now. He will put it to a layout test sometime in the = near future. He will at that time test with the traction tire as well. I am gathering the pluses and minuses on this loco for a review = in a future TKM. So far the Pluses are winning (G). But the minuses are = showing up as well. I will receive my J this week and I can compare mine with = the known problems as of now. But, the overall opinion so far is BLI hit the target. May not be a Bullseye but close enough for most = modelers.....Gary=20 Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art = Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <348EBFFA-BE0D-11D8-8164-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: "'PRR-Talk LIST'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:14:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <348EBFFA-BE0D-11D8-8164-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: "'PRR-Talk LIST'" From: Bruce Smith Subject: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:14:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:27:21 +0000 Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0 Content-Type: text/html Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:27:21 +0000 Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0 Content-Type: text/html Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_9002_1087223241_0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:25:17 -0400 I put plenty of them on the turntable at Enola myself, but I never took a picture of one because the totally round roundhouse wouldn't let me get far enough back. Besides was usually busy with the hostler. The Gs routinely were turned on the table at Ivy City as well. Not often but occasionally. Probably a few were turned at Harrisburg too, if there was a problem on one end or t'other. G's visiting 46th Street in Phila would have been an extremely rare occasion. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_00CF_01C45202.45AE9CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

I put=20 plenty of them on the turntable at Enola myself, but I never took a = picture of=20 one because the totally round roundhouse wouldn't let me get far enough=20 back. Besides was usually busy with the hostler. The Gs = routinely=20 were turned on the table at Ivy City as well. Not often but=20 occasionally. Probably a few were turned at Harrisburg too, if = there was a=20 problem on one end or t'other. G's visiting 46th Street in Phila = would=20 have been an extremely rare occasion.

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 ndbprr@att.net
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27=20 AM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Other = than=20 Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's = were=20 turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? = Thanks,=20 N. Bell

------=_NextPart_000_00CF_01C45202.45AE9CA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:10:35 -0400 This might sound like a dumb question but what would be the reason to = turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated they could be run in = either direction.... SamV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ndbprr@att.net=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places = where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a = turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C45208.993DB2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

This might sound like a dumb question = but what=20 would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated = they=20 could be run in either direction....

SamV

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ndbprr@att.net

To: PRR-Talk

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 = 10:27=20 AM

Subject: [PRR] Turning = GG1's

Other than Sunnyside = with=20 the loops are there any other known places where G's were = turned? =20 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. = Bell ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C45208.993DB2B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 13:14:31 -0400 Even though the Gs were "maintained" at Wilmington Shop where there was no need for a turntable, occasionally one would show up at Enola requiring drop table work (usually drive cups caused by the drivers being out of equalization). To get to the drop table we had to tow the dead motor with a diesel switcher into the house. Also there would be occasions such as an inoperative windshield wiper, cab signal pickup bar etc. requiring the unit to be turned at Harrisburg or Ivy City or Meadows etc. Not often but you asked if they were EVER turned. Answer is "Yes". -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Sam Vastano Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:11 PM To: ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's This might sound like a dumb question but what would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was situated they could be run in either direction.... SamV ----- Original Message ----- From: ndbprr@att.net To: PRR-Talk Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C45211.8BFCD1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Even=20 though the Gs were "maintained" at Wilmington Shop where there was no = need for a=20 turntable, occasionally one would show up at Enola requiring drop table = work=20 (usually drive cups caused by the drivers being out of equalization). To = get to=20 the drop table we had to tow the dead motor with a diesel switcher into = the=20 house. Also there would be occasions such as an inoperative = windshield=20 wiper, cab signal pickup bar etc. requiring the unit to be turned at = Harrisburg=20 or Ivy City or Meadows etc. Not often but you asked if they were = EVER=20 turned. Answer is "Yes".

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Sam=20 Vastano
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 12:11 PM
To:=20 ndbprr@att.net; PRR-Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

This might sound like a dumb question = but what=20 would be the reason to turn them? I thought the way the cab was = situated they=20 could be run in either direction....

SamV

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ndbprr@att.net=20
To: PRR-Talk

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 = 10:27=20 AM

Subject: [PRR] Turning = GG1's

Other than = Sunnyside with=20 the loops are there any other known places where G's were = turned? =20 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. = Bell

------=_NextPart_000_00F5_01C45211.8BFCD1E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:33:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification These cars are simply the original Bethlehem Car Works kits assembled and painted/decaled. BCW purchased the parts from ECW . The trucks are from the current BCW line and are metal sideframes/bolster with Intermountain wheelsets. It is my understanding that a total of 1500 cars will be produced . ----- Ken McCorry --part1_ba.58b44b30.2dff4996_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" These cars ar= e simply the original Bethlehem Car Works kits assembled and painted/decaled= . BCW purchased the parts from ECW . The trucks are from the current BCW lin= e and are metal sideframes/bolster with Intermountain wheelsets. It is my un= derstanding that a total of 1500 cars will be produced . ----- Ken McCorry --part1_ba.58b44b30.2dff4996_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:56:30 -0400 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] St. Louis RPM Meet in TKM Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John.Golden5@scott.af.mil writes: > Greg, Al, > > Thanks a bunch for the ad space in the latest TKM. I owe you one--let me know if there's anything I can do to repay you. > > Unfortunately there's a typo that needs to be corrected at your earliest convenience. There's a reference in the text that the event will be in O'Fallon, MO. The event is in O'Fallon, IL, not in Missouri. This normally wouldn't be a big deal, but there literally is an O'Fallon, MO right across the river in the St. Louis metro area and I wouldn't want anyone to get confused. > > The latest TKM is smashing, BTW. > > John John and all, My Mistake! Let me appologize right up front. The confucion was on my part entirely, let me explain... We at Cascade Warehouse (my Day Job) ship rail cars to O'Fallon all the time with plywood. I had no idea there was an O'Fallon in both states... YIKES! And it was funny because as I was putting my column together I was talking online with my good friend John Welther and ask him how far the event was from his house and he said about 30 mintutes... But I failed to pick up the fact that the event was in O'FALLON, IL NOT in the "Show Me State". MY mistake and I think that Al may be able to go in and correct it in THE KEYSTONE MODELER (shameless plug). But everyone please NOTE TH CORRECTION and forgive me. Let's make sure John venue is well supported and hopefully becomes an annual event. WE do wish you all the success, John, regardless of the error. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:57:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain B60B clarification From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was guilty of indicating that the forthcoming B60b would feature newly tooled sides in brass, with new trucks to boot. Needless to say, I was caught a bit off-guard when InterMountain indicated they were plastic and there was conjecture that they were really the ECW kits. I have been privately notified that my original post was correct -- at the time. That was last fall. Since that time BCW backpedalled, knowing that Walthers was going to come out with a B60b. So they changed plans and did indeed go with ECW B60b car parts, BCW trucks, and IM wheelsets. I apologize for the confusion, but the information was correct at the time. I didn't learn otherwise until this week. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:06:49 -0400 From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: ndbprr@att.net AM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Turning Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:13:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Turning GG1's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yes, the Sunnyside loop was for turning entire trains. On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Chany, Christopher wrote: > Wasn't the loop for turning whole passenger trains? > =A0 > Chris Chany > > -----Original Message----- > From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM > To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's > > Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places=20= > where G's were turned?=A0 Anybody ever see a picture of one on a=20 > turntable?=A0 Thanks, N. Bell > > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:02:02 -0400 That is correct. I believe there is a picture in my Pennsy Electric Years of the pit at Ivy City with the roundhouse (B&O) in the background. Don't have a copy handy to confirm but I recall putting one in the book. At least of the Ivy City facility. By the way, e-mails from me direct to you bounce back undelivered. -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 3:23 PM To: Bill Volkmer Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Do I assume correctly that there never was a turrntable with Catenary? -------------- Original message from "Bill Volkmer" : -------------- ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C45231.50CA8020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

That=20 is correct. I believe there is a picture in my Pennsy = Electric Years=20 of the pit at Ivy City with the roundhouse (B&O) in the = background. =20 Don't have a copy handy to confirm but I recall putting one in the = book. =20 At least of the Ivy City facility.

By the=20 way, e-mails from me direct to you bounce back = undelivered.

-----Original Message-----
From: = ndbprr@att.net=20 [mailto:ndbprr@att.net]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 3:23=20 PM
To: Bill Volkmer
Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Do I = assume=20 correctly that there never was a turrntable with Catenary?
--------------=20 Original message from "Bill Volkmer" : = --------------=20

------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C45231.50CA8020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon" Subject: [PRR] Purchase Pennsy Signals Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:05:12 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: With all the recent posts re : PRR signals, can an individual purchase such signals and where can they be purchased? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:57 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Signals > > Pure PRR PL signals remain on Amtrak's main between Paoli > and Harrisburg. Still all amber and still have the "Stop & Proceed" > aspect. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:25:05 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Get Together at Seattle Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 21:25:05 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Get Together at Seattle From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] circus train..... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:27:32 -0400 Hello List , Anyone west of Pittburgh on the list keep your eyes open for the = Ringling Bros Circus train . It came by on the PRR main ( NS ) throught = the South Side of Pittsburgh at @ 10:15 . Quite a long train ..... Its = headed west to Conway and ....... Mike Hmel=20 =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4525E.C8DDA970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello List ,

Anyone west of Pittburgh on the list = keep your eyes=20 open for the Ringling Bros Circus train . It came by on the PRR = main ( NS )=20 throught the South Side of Pittsburgh at @ 10:15 . Quite a long = train=20 ..... Its headed west to Conway and .......

Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C4525E.C8DDA970-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 23:00:34 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: Turning GG1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm Bell wrote: > Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places > where G's were turned? > Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Yep, there's a picture of 4800 on this page of my Penn Central web site: http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/electric.html It's the fourth picture down the page. -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Turning GG1's Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:43:13 -0400 Norm: I am still unable to reach you off list. If you'd like, call me at 786-367-4887 or remove me from your black list. Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of ndbprr@att.net Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Turning GG1's Other than Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's were turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? Thanks, N. Bell ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C452BD.2D864F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message

Norm:

I am=20 still unable to reach you off list. If you'd like, call me at = 786-367-4887=20 or remove me from your black list.

Bill Volkmer

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of=20 ndbprr@att.net
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:27=20 AM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] Turning=20 GG1's

Other = than=20 Sunnyside with the loops are there any other known places where G's = were=20 turned? Anybody ever see a picture of one on a turntable? = Thanks,=20 N. Bell

------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C452BD.2D864F90-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:31:52 -0400 From: Tom Hayden Subject: [PRR] RE: Circus Train From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:35:20 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:35:20 +0000 From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] TKM No 11 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:01:54 -0400 From: "Larry Reynolds" Subject: [PRR] New Problem With the BLI J-1 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:49:03 -0400 Gents: I discovered a problem in the drive on one of my new J-1s. The drivers = started to bind looking much like a side-rod / main-rod / eccentric-rod = problem. This first occurred after the locomotive came out of a super = elevated curve. Also, it only seemed to jam under load. I noticed that = the #1 driver was lifting and causing the jam. This is not good! I = turned the engine over and put power to the thing and observed that the = #1 driver is VERY close to the steam chest. What is happening here, is = the #1 driver, when being slightly raised, (due to entering super = elevated track or just imperfect track), is jamming against the rear of = the steam chest and causing the wheel to cock and jamb the mechanism. I = also noticed that the driver was wearing a groove, much like a wheel = well, into the steam chest. I gently held down the wheels against the = steam chest and powered the engine in the hope that the "wheel well" = would further increase. This seems to have solved the problem. I hope! = =20 I post this to the Digitrax list due to initial thoughts of a decoder = problem.=20 BTW, I really don't have imperfect track, none of us do.....right! = Larry ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C452F8.AA0A8640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gents:

I discovered a problem in the = drive on one of=20 my new J-1s. The drivers started to bind looking much like a = side-rod /=20 main-rod / eccentric-rod problem. This first occurred after = the=20 locomotive came out of a super elevated curve. Also, it only = seemed to jam=20 under load. I noticed that the #1 driver was lifting and causing = the=20 jam. This is not good! I turned the engine over and put = power to the=20 thing and observed that the #1 driver is VERY close to the steam = chest. =20 What is happening here, is the #1 driver, when being slightly raised, = (due to=20 entering super elevated track or just imperfect track), is jamming = against the=20 rear of the steam chest and causing the wheel to cock and jamb the=20 mechanism. I also noticed that the driver was wearing a groove, = much like=20 a wheel well, into the steam chest. I gently held down the wheels = against=20 the steam chest and powered the engine in the hope that the "wheel = well"=20 would further increase. This seems to have solved the = problem. I=20 hope!

I post this to the Digitrax list due=20 to initial thoughts of a decoder problem.

BTW, I really don't have imperfect = track, none of=20 us do.....right! <VBG>

Larry

------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C452F8.AA0A8640-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:30:17 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith wrote: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. = = = = From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door syndrome" too. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 20:30:17 -0700 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bruce Smith wrote: Morning Folks, In reviewing recent messages regarding the Intermountain/BCW B60B, there appears to be some misunderstanding about the construction of the model. It is not made with brass car sides. The car is described as having an "injection molded body" on the IM web page (http://www.intermountain-railway.com/). It is not clear if these are parts assembled from ECW B60B kits bought back by BCW (which originally tooled the B60B) or new tooling. = = = = From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door syndrome" too. Peter Weiglin San Mateo, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:58:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT - HTML Appearing In Digests From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7D313EA6-BF8C-11D8-8B9F-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have confirmed that for "many e-mail clients" that stray HTML/MIME codes appear in the text, creating a really annoying appearance. I use commercial software, LetterRip, and have been very stable on the 3.x version for several years. Version 4.x has been out for some time, but the main benefit is compatibility with the MacOS X operating system, which I do not run on my server (yet). There are some other benefits of the upgrade, but I have not seen the need for it. I have now confirmed that version 4.x will strip HTML out of the digests. For that reason alone, I will purchase and implement the upgrade. However, as I am going on vacation in a few weeks, I am not going to take the chance of destabilizing the server prior to my departure. Therefore, I will budget for, and install, this upgrade in late July. Thank you for your patience in this regard. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: PRR-Talk From: Bruce Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] InterMountain B60b Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:08:16 -0500 To: Peter Weiglin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 15, 2004, at 10:30 PM, Peter Weiglin wrote: > From the photos, it looks like the baggage doors are not recessed. As > I remember, this was a characteristic of the old kits. Whether it's > new tooling or not, it seems to perpetuate the lack of depth. > > Now where did I put that old J-C kit??...it had "shallow door > syndrome" too. I have plans for my remaining ECW B60B kit... and they include removing the doors! That will give me an opportunity to add the recessed depth as the doors will be behind the sides. Mine will be serving as a kitchen car in a troop train. After getting a good look at the inside arrangements in Juliet, the theatrical scenery car at the Railroad Museum of Greater Cincinnati, I'm ready to put an interior in (not too much to add ) Hopefully, I can get some interior parts from the Walthers Troop Kitchen car, as the US ARMY range will be needed as well. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:26:55 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: <000701c4298f$0b1eda50$6401a8c0@ABBuchan> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I got mine yesterday. Wow! Besides being the beautiful model I = expected, it come with an optional traction tired rear driver. The center of = gravity of the loco is toward the rear (a common situation for steam loco = models). So the rear driver is where the traction tire should do the most good. = As delivered. w/o the traction tire, my J barely managed 17 cars up the = long, curving 2%+ grade at the North Shore Club. With the driver swap-out it easily handled 35. I have not yet found its limit. I just ran out of = time. I had to get home so I could get to work today and earn more money to = spend on trains ;-) There is also plenty of room in the smokebox for = additional weight, but I don't think this loco will need it. If it handles no more than the 35 cars its already done, I'm a happy camper! Now for the down side. Can anyone explain the Byzantine procedure for entering a long address on this beast? I am a computer engineer. I am facile with hex et. Al. It took me four attempts with the aid of a calculator to do the modulo 255 arithmetic. I had to have the tender = shell left off so I could manually reset the decoder (4 times) and start over. = I eventually got through it, but it is enough to convince many others that = DCC is the Devil's invention. Why can't this loco be programmed the same = way others, including other BLI's, are ?? Why won't CV 17 and 18 accept = the long address the way my club's NCE system expects? Nit pick: The model comes with a nice thumbnail history of the PRR J1, including the use of a steel bell. I presume all the country's brass = was then being used for shell casings for functional delivery to Japan and Germany ;-) But the model has a brass bell! It's not like they = didn't know. Regards, Andy Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:37:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Andy They knew all about the Steel Bell this J should have had installed. I can't remember how many times I let them know. All they needed to do was mold it in black plastic or at the least paint the bell black, but that is just as easy for us to do I guess. I also sent them a recording of my J1 Bell. Although their hands were probably tied because it was a QSI sound board. I think I sent it to QSI as well but not sure. I am assuming they just used the Bell sound they aleady had made up from the Lionel J. I havn't had the chance to hear the BLI J Bell yet but read it had a higher "ding" than the Brass M1 and T1 Bells. Should actually be a duller "ding".....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:49:56 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:58:08 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted/Andy/all: The reason BLI suggests the programming method they do is that these locos need more power on the programming track than many systems can provide. Programming in OPS MODE (on mainline) requires much less power. I have always been able to program the addresses on the programming track of my Digitrax Chief. I don't get feedback of a successful operation, but it works. I have programmed 10+ this way now. After programming the 4 digit address and CV 29 to turn it on, I program the rest (adjust volume, etc) on the main using OPS mode. It is a very bad idea to directly change CV 17/18/29 on the mainline using OPS mode. Last time I tried it, I had 4 engines respond to the new address. That's why BLI has the rather complex method of programming. Jeff Warner > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:01:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI J-1 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, June 16, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > I agree completely. Nearly all other decoders such as Digitrax and > Altas, readily and easily accept a 4-digit address. For the life of > me, I cannot understand BLI's logic in making the 4-digit address is > as difficult as they are. For now, I am keeping my BLI in 2-digit > addresses (the last 2-digits of the road number) with all of my other > engines 4-digit address. If there is a conflict, I will just use an > adjacent number. Unless I win the lottery, I don't think that I will > run out of the 2-digit numbers anytime soon. ;-) Not so fast, my friend! Atlas, easy? Okay, maybe in HO, but in N scale the factory-equipped decoders are Lenz and they are very difficult to program (Digitrax) in the default Paged mode. The answer from Atlas is to use the method being described for BLI, but I found that switching to Direct mode did the trick on the first try every time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:53:52 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm not so lucky. I belong to a club with lots of DCC-happy members. = So we all are assigned a unique 2-digit prefix and then use the last 2-digits = as we choose (usually the last 2 digits of the loco). So 4-digit = addressing is a must. But neither my BLI GG1, not my BLI T1, not my BLI M1b had this awful process required to enter a long address. I just put the loco on = the track (main or programming) and entered the long address when asked - = done! -----Original Message----- From: Ted Andrews [mailto:ted_andrews@msn.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:50 AM To: asmiller@mitre.org; PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com; = PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI J-1 Andy wrote: >Now for the down side. Can anyone explain the Byzantine procedure for=20 >entering a long address on this beast? I am a computer engineer. I am >facile with hex et. Al. It took me four attempts with the aid of a >calculator to do the modulo 255 arithmetic. I had to have the tender = shell >left off so I could manually reset the decoder (4 times) and start = over. =20 >I >eventually got through it, but it is enough to convince many others=20 >that >DCC >is the Devil's invention. Why can't this loco be programmed the same = way >others, including other BLI's, are ?? Why won't CV 17 and 18 accept = the >long address the way my club's NCE system expects? I agree completely. Nearly all other decoders such as Digitrax and = Altas,=20 readily and easily accept a 4-digit address. For the life of me, I = cannot=20 understand BLI's logic in making the 4-digit address is as difficult as = they are. For now, I am keeping my BLI in 2-digit addresses (the last = 2-digits of the road number) with all of my other engines 4-digit address. If there = is a conflict, I will just use an adjacent number. Unless I win the lottery, = I=20 don't think that I will run out of the 2-digit numbers anytime soon. ;-) Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "michael hmel" Subject: [PRR] varnish on the move .... Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:19:48 -0400 Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that = several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA = convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is = possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far = away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . = I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at = least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel =20 =20 Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net=20 E-bay : iron*mah =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C45393.D595AAB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello list ,

In responds to the Congo / Stainless = car siting=20 post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR = station for=20 the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville = . It=20 is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far = away as=20 California are using them as transportation to the convention . I = can't=20 confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on = vintage PRR=20 car in the group . I'll keep the list posted .

Mike Hmel

Member : TCA , = PRRT&HS
Lists :=20 PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail=20 Talk
Lionel = Collectors=20 , Toytraintrading
E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net =
E-bay :=20 iron*mah

=20

------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C45393.D595AAB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:40:13 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <9A804316-BFC4-11D8-8B9F-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Haven't heard much on this since the original announcement. And the Altoona Museum's web site isn't really drawing attention to it. Anybody seen any new info? Are there any special events at the museum over that weekend tied in with the lighting event? Anyone going? Should be neat. I had an existing conflict and won't be attending. Hopefully they'll sell photos/video following. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon" Subject: [PRR] Snappers and Communications Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:45:17 -0400 I wanted to thank those who replied. This is a fascinating topic, to me anyway. I have several videos showing operations on the "Curve", but have never = seen midtrain snappers!! Someone out there know of a video title which may show midtrain = snappers? Steam or Diesel!!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Weldon=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PRR@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:38 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: "Snappers and Communications Before radio communication, I assume engine crews communicated by a = series of whistle blasts. As an example, how did the snapper crews know = when to push and how hard? ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C453B8.EC167880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

I wanted to thank those = who=20 replied.

This is a fascinating = topic, to me=20 anyway.

I have several videos = showing=20 operations on the "Curve", but have never seen midtrain = snappers!!

Someone out there know = of a video=20 title which may show midtrain snappers? Steam or = Diesel!!!

All the best to you and = yours Weldon

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Weldon=20
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PRR@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 = 8:38=20 PM

Subject: [PRR] Re: "Snappers = and=20 Communications

Before radio = communication, I=20 assume engine crews communicated by a series of whistle blasts. = As an=20 example, how did the snapper crews know when to push and how=20 hard?

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C453B8.EC167880-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:21:09 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Mike and listers, Without doing some thorough googling I believe that the only PRR car in varnish service based out of CA would be the Colonial Crafts. A 3db, 1dw, lounge car. Off the top of my head surviving varnish cars from PRR service would be : PRR 120 "Pennsylvania"-Z74d Business Car. "Henry Hudson"- 29s, 1 dw, converted to cafeteria car. "Colonial Crafts"- mentioned above. "Dover Harbor"- Oldest heavyweight Pullman in varnish service, served on PRR for a small period of time. Cars i've seen for sale of PRR Heritage are: "Madley" 12-1 heavyweight painted in MOW yellow, interior gutted, i believe asking $12,000. "Mystical? Brook" 12db car from 38 or 39 Broadway, interior is semi-intact painted in NDeM colors, in Mexico. I've seen at least eight B60b's in varying condition usually asking $8,000. I've also seen the ex-PRR "George Washington" AFAIK the interior is intact, though the body is only in stainless steel. It's based out of Arizona and is used for Movie/TV service. Most of this can be found through some searching of AAPRCO site and companies with cars for sale can be found through surfing through AAPRCO's trade members link. I personally find it interesting and think it would be neat to model cars that still exist today. Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "michael hmel" wrote: Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:54:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Frederick Ripley Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" >From: Frederick Ripley >Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish >Date: Wed, Jun 16, 2004, 16:54 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 19:21:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Jamie Bothwell In-Reply-To: <200406162218.i5GMIcaq018335@arctic.tamug.tamu.edu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out010.verizon.net from [151.197.190.2] at Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:19:43 -0500 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, In addition to the cars mentioned previously there are about 35 heavyweight Pullmans of ex-PRR heritage existing at locations around the country. I have a photo of "Alder Falls" taken in 1988, so it should still be around. Both 1948 Broadway observations are still around. One is at Whippany, NJ and the other is at the RR Museum of PA. As recently as three years ago, Altoona had "Jacks Narrows" and "Harbor Springs". Jamie Bothwell PS John, Do you know where "Madley" is? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 18:30:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish From: Frederick Ripley From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:01:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The tickets to the park are sold out for the lighting of Horseshoe. All roads to the Curve will be closed. Still tickets left for the parking lot below Horseshoe. You won't be able to see anything from there because no trees have been cut. You can barely see trains from the park. What a shame. Some folks are camping out on the mountain sides to get a better view. I may be one of them. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:11:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Snappers and Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Weldon...... "Horseshoe Curve Kaleidoscope" and "100 years at Horseshoe" show steam and diesel helpers or snappers. "100 years at Horseshoe" shows midtrain Centipedes on an ore train. These tapes/DVDs are by Revelation Audio-Visuals. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:56:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman Photos Folks, This is from a posting on the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. Some very interesting photos. With PRR horse car and theatrical car in the works (read on the modeling bench) the one of the open car was of interest. Many good photos for you period modelers. Enjoy, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1087433777 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Folks,

This is from a posting on the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. = Some very interesting photos. With PRR horse car and theatrical= car in the works (read on the modeling bench) the one of the open car was o= f interest. Many good photos for you period modelers.

Enjoy,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1087433777-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:08:58 -0400 To: PRR-talk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 16, 2004, at 5:54 PM, Frederick Ripley wrote: > In the late '80's, I remember seeing "Catalpa Falls" > in an excursion consist behind N&W 1218. Don't know > who owned it, or if it is still around. The owner of Catalpa Falls is on this list!!!! (I won't name names, to protect privacy.) The car was in lease service on the Northern Central Railway dinner train until it folded a few years ago. Not sure where the car is now. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk LIST) From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:10:54 -0400 To: zootowerprr@webtv.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.618) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Jun 16, 2004, at 8:01 PM, zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > The tickets to the park are sold out for the lighting of > Horseshoe. All roads to the Curve will be closed. Still tickets left > for > the parking lot below Horseshoe. You won't be able to see anything from > there because no trees have been cut. You can barely see trains from > the > park. What a shame. > Some folks are camping out on the mountain sides to get a better view. > I > may be one of them. The tree issue brings up another point. When the high-angle photo was taken in 1954, the trees weren't grown up yet. You could see the tracks the whole way around and the trains were lighted for the shot. Even if you light the tracks now, won't they be blocked by trees unless you are taking an aerial photo? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:35:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] GG1's Turned? List, I don't keep email so I don't know what the primary question was regarding turning GG1's so please forgive me if I'm redundant. But, earlier this evening I had dinner with my father-in-law who is a retired PRR/CR locomotive engineer and spent many years behind the throttle of GG1's motoring between Washington and New York and occasionally into Harrisburg or Enola. I asked him if he remembered a GG1 being turned for any reason. His reply was no, they didn't need to be turned because the GG1 had dual controls for operation in either direction. He said they ran them in whatever direction they were pointed to get to wherever they were going. BTW, I have written an article about the 1953 wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861 into Washington's Union Station. The article is to be published in a forthcoming issue of The Keystone. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line --part1_11.2c0db713.2e024f79_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

I don't keep email so I don't know what the primary question was regardi= ng turning GG1's so please forgive me if I'm redundant.

But, earlier this evening I had dinner with my father-in-law who is a re= tired PRR/CR locomotive engineer and spent many years behind the throttle of= GG1's motoring between Washington and New York and occasionally into Harris= burg or Enola. I asked him if he remembered a GG1 being turned for any= reason. His reply was no, they didn't need to be turned because the G= G1 had dual controls for operation in either direction. He said they r= an them in whatever direction they were pointed to get to wherever they were= going.

BTW, I have written an article about the 1953 wreck of The Federal Expre= ss and GG1 4861 into Washington's Union Station. The article is to be=20= published in a forthcoming issue of The Keystone.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line

--part1_11.2c0db713.2e024f79_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:50:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry & List... The only good shot that I could possibly shoot of the Curve would be from the mountain top directly across from the park looking down on the Curve. There was a path in from the old Glen White Run. Or rent a helicopter. Horseshoe is a sad site these days. The GP9 in the park looks worse every year. Hopefully something positive will happen to restore the views. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:22:00 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, Since i'm home now. The 12 single and 5 double bedroom car is the "Magic Brook". As far as the desciption says, the car has original fixtures, for $12,000 who wants a sleeping car charter service? http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/equipment/sleep.dine.lounge/5009/ For a picture of the B60b's for sale: http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/equipment/misc/9007/ Jamie asked about the "Madley", which is in sad shape, though it has been converted to roller bearings. http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/new_page_131.htm Another car which i remembered, though not a member of AAPRCO or RPCA is the "Francis Sueter", better known as Ex-PRR Z74? "Harrisburg", which is stored in running condition at the Strasburg Railroad. Last I heard the owner is in jail. If my fathe ror I ever won the lottery we would either like to get this car or the Ex-Norfolk & Western "Blue Ridge". I'm trying to make note of the varnish still in service as opposed to 'museum restored pieces'. As someone on this list has said numerous times, "It's not owning them thats the issue, it's maintenence and upkeep!" Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:38:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve July 4th Celebration List, I would be surprised if there is no security on the surrounding hillside property. Don't forget,it is either railroad property or City of Altoona watershed property. Even where all the four wheeler trails are. Pat --part1_158.37a9dba7.2e025e1b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,
I would be surprised if there is no sec= urity on the surrounding hillside property. Don't forget,it is either railro= ad property or City of Altoona watershed property. Even where all the four w= heeler trails are.

Pat --part1_158.37a9dba7.2e025e1b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Catalpa Falls Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:52:43 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Catalpa Falls is alive and well. One of my customers is one of the owners. It is progressing towards full restoration. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:06:21 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Budd diner 4614 (?) exists on the Seminole Gulf, in Fort Myers Florida. Car is in sad shape, and not operable . --part1_115.340ec1e6.2e02aafd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Budd diner 4614 (?) exists on the S= eminole Gulf, in Fort Myers Florida. Car is in sad shape, and not oper= able . --part1_115.340ec1e6.2e02aafd_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:56:13 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: "Hazelton" a heavyweight Pullman is stored operable(?) at Little Creek Virginia. My understanding is that it's owned by the Tidewater Chapter or the NRHS. Jim McDaniel, Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Don Millbranth" Subject: [PRR] Lost Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:29:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: "TRAINS" magazine (February 1962) carries a rather extensive article on the history of the Broadway Limited. One of the cars mentioned/pictured was called the "Wanatah". It was a 4-compartment library-observation car built by Pullman in 1905. Does anyone have, or know of, any additional information pertaining to this car? Thanks, Don PRRT&HS 7337 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:12:04 -0400 A couple of weeks ago my Computer was hit by Lighting thru the telephone = line. It is fixed now and I am back on line. If you want to contact me please = do I am ready for your mails. Missed you all and your messages. Lee Burbage ------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C4544B.283A3440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

A couple of weeks ago my Computer was hit by Lighting thru the = telephone=20 line.

It is fixed now and I am back on line. If you want to contact me = please do=20 I am ready for your mails.

Missed you all and your messages.

Lee Burbage

------=_NextPart_000_0160_01C4544B.283A3440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:48:42 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have not been back to look in a few years, but a Budd single-unit diner, I think from the Senator, used to be attached to a restaurant in Watertown MA. Unfortunately, it is tucked between 2 buildings and the only visible part of the car is (was?) the end, to which they affixed a dummy open platform :-(( However, you could go aboard and eat in the car. Regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of John Frantz Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:21 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: michael hmel Subject: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Mike and listers, Without doing some thorough googling I believe that the only PRR car in varnish service based out of CA would be the Colonial Crafts. A 3db, 1dw, lounge car. Off the top of my head surviving varnish cars from PRR service would be : PRR 120 "Pennsylvania"-Z74d Business Car. "Henry Hudson"- 29s, 1 dw, converted to cafeteria car. "Colonial Crafts"- mentioned above. "Dover Harbor"- Oldest heavyweight Pullman in varnish service, served on PRR for a small period of time. Cars i've seen for sale of PRR Heritage are: "Madley" 12-1 heavyweight painted in MOW yellow, interior gutted, i believe asking $12,000. "Mystical? Brook" 12db car from 38 or 39 Broadway, interior is semi-intact painted in NDeM colors, in Mexico. I've seen at least eight B60b's in varying condition usually asking $8,000. I've also seen the ex-PRR "George Washington" AFAIK the interior is intact, though the body is only in stainless steel. It's based out of Arizona and is used for Movie/TV service. Most of this can be found through some searching of AAPRCO site and companies with cars for sale can be found through surfing through AAPRCO's trade members link. I personally find it interesting and think it would be neat to model cars that still exist today. Best Regards, John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "michael hmel" wrote: Hello list , In responds to the Congo / Stainless car siting post , I was told that several cars will be in Pittsburgh at the PRR station for the TCA convention slated for the week of June 20 to 26 in Monroeville . It is possible this car is one of them heading east . A few members as far away as California are using them as transportation to the convention . I can't confirm any of this info , but I understand there may be at least on vintage PRR car in the group . I'll keep the list posted . Mike Hmel Member : TCA , PRRT&HS Lists : PRR Talk , PC Modeling , Conrail Talk Lionel Collectors , Toytraintrading E-Mail : michaelhmel@netzero.net E-bay : iron*mah ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:28:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Correction List, In my message, yesterday, regarding turning GG1's, I mentioned that I have written an article about the wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861. My apologies; my fingers got confused; the locomotive was actually 4876. Sorry about that! BTW I also forgot to mention that my father-in-law was the Fireman on 4876 that day. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line --part1_2d.3efbd7e6.2e031290_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

In my message, yesterday, regarding turning GG1's, I mentioned that I ha= ve written an article about the wreck of The Federal Express and GG1 4861. &= nbsp;My apologies; my fingers got confused; the locomotive was actually 4876= . Sorry about that! BTW I also forgot to mention that my father-= in-law was the Fireman on 4876 that day.=20

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line
--part1_2d.3efbd7e6.2e031290_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:07:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Cumberland Valley Station For Sale From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <6C2B6915-C078-11D8-B99D-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wanna own a railroad station? The ex-Cumberland Valley / ex-PRR railroad station in Mechanicsburg, Pa., is for sale. The current owner is the Borough of Mechanicsburg. See http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/ 10874640353981.xml . ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pullman Photos Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 13:27:04 -0400 From: RDG2124@aol.com [mailto:RDG2124@aol.com] Subject: [PRR] Pullman Photos face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----
From: RDG2124@aol.com PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Pullman From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Congo car in Chicago Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:47:15 +0000 From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Keystone Number Plate drawings Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:31:53 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Does anyone have genuine PRR (copies or otherwise) drawings for the Keystone and round number plates, Builder Plates, and tender badges? I would cover all copying and mailing costs. I would want the Keystone plates for the common classes. Please reply to me directly at billlane@comcast.net Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass S Scale PRR X29 http://www.pennsysmodels.com Production models of the REA Version arriving July 1st Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:50:22 -0400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-PMX-Version: 4.6.0.99824, Antispam-Core: 4.6.0.101390, Antispam-Data: 2004.6.17.104186 X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report='__TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __OIMO_MSGID 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __EVITE_CTYPE 0, __CTYPE_CHARSET_QUOTED 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI 0, __OIMO_MUA 0, __HAS_X_MAILER 0, __ANY_OUTLOOK_MUA 0, __HAS_OUTLOOK_IN_MAILER 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __HAS_MIMEOLE 0, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, IN_REP_TO 0' Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The Mountain View is still here in Whippany. It's starting to look real ratty though... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Frederick Ripley Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:31 PM To: Jamie Bothwell; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Both 1948 Broadway observations are still > around. One is at Whippany, NJ and the other is at the RR Museum of > PA. Now that I think about it, I remember seeing "Mountain View" listed for sale a few years ago- $250,000 I think? Is this the car in NJ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 17:22:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servicable. --part1_160.30d7687f.2e036595_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Ra= ilroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona
The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by t= he Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servica= ble. --part1_160.30d7687f.2e036595_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Cessna" Subject: [PRR] July 4th at the Curve Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:05:49 -0400 Even though it has been covered in Trains Magazine, a full-page ad in = Railpace for 2 months, the internet, and the Associated Press wire = service, the AARP radio network and associated other local media = outlets, here is an update on the Curve lighting. This time the event will last for much more than the 1/15th of a second = that the 1954 experience lasted. As a half-mile long train approaches = an otherwise darkened Curve the beams from 45: 7,000 watt searchlights, = some riding in TTX cars and some based on the ground at the visitor = center, will pierce straight up into the nighttime sky. The surrounding = hillside will begin to systematically illuminate as the locomotive = begins to trace the arc of the Curve. Section by section the entire = landscape will be revealed in a kinetic and dynamic show of lighting = power turning the hillsides red, white and blue. The interior of each = railcar will be illuminated by Sylvania HPL Ultra Plus Halogen lamps. = Additionally a string of 100 theatrically programmed strobe lights will = suggest a 2,500 foot long shimmering necklace of light. The synchronization of this event is a giant challenge of perfect timing = and must be delicately choreographed as to appear effortless in its = motion but will actually be the result of a team of well-rehearsed = people working very hard to make every detail perfect.=20 The day's agenda is a full one. Both the Museum and Curve will be open = for business as usual. There is entertainment scheduled for the Museum = yard all day including a visit from the Sylvania sponsored #29 GM = Goodwrench NASCAR entry of Kevin Harvick. Upon the Curve and Museum = closing, bus transportation to the Curve will begin. The Curve will be = filled with food and entertainment all evening as well. After remarks = from dignitaries, it will be time for the show. Our train-mounted = computerized light show will be ushered into the Curve by the live = sounds of Altoona's own Paul Winter and we are thrilled to have Paul = available to be with us for this occasion. Over 33 million lumens of = light will fill the property. With your average hardware store = flashlight pumping out a whopping 30 to 50 lumens, gather 750,000 of = your closest friends and lets see if we can begin to approach the = spectacle that will take place July 4. =20 And that's not all!! Our friends at Sylvania Lighting Services have = been busy retrofitting the landscape and buildings at the Horseshoe = Curve Visitor Center complex. New technology will adorn the facility = there making it more enjoyable not only on July 4th but for years to = come as Sylvania is graciously leaving all of those improvements behind = permanently. =20 Then to cap the evening, a fireworks show from Zambelli Fireworks = Internationale. They have certainly earned their reputation as the = First Family of Fireworks. A proud Pennsylvania company that has lit = the sky over the White House for President Kennedy, illuminated Mount = Rushmore, and have been featured at celebrations for the Statue of = Liberty and Washington Monument, they will fill the sky over Kittanning = point reservoir with the most spectacular show to ever be seen in this = area. =20 Many have said that because of the trees, the people at the Visitor = Center level will not see anything. That could not be farther from the = truth. This is not about being able to see the train. There is not = that much to see. The 7000 watt searchlights are the same type of = lights used at the World Trade Center memorial and will be pointed = straight up. The hillsides surrounding the Curve will be lit and = certainly the fireworks can be seen from anywhere. Also, If you haven't = been to the Curve in a while then you would know that the statement = about trees not being cut is untrue. The bank on the east side has been = clear-cut from the visitor center to the signal bridge and more of the = trees on our property (the big pines) are coming down. I would also remind you that if you are planning to ride or hike in to = avoid buying an admission, please do it without trespassing. Otherwise, = you may be meeting railroad, local, state and FEDERAL law enforcement = agents as an extensive list of VIPs have been invited. All are equipped = with night vision gear. Also, as I walked the access road between track = 1 and 2 today, the rattlers and copperheads in the area are quite heavy = already. Just a reminder/warning. I hope everyone will consider joining us at this once in a lifetime = event. Scott G. Cessna Executive Director Railroaders Memorial Museum Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark ------=_NextPart_000_0279_01C45495.B8950250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Even though it has been covered in = Trains Magazine,=20 a full-page ad in Railpace for 2 months, the internet, and the = Associated Press=20 wire service, the AARP radio network and associated other local media = outlets,=20 here is an update on the Curve lighting.

This time=20 the event will last for much more than the 1/15^th of a second = that=20 the 1954 experience lasted. As a half-mile long train approaches an otherwise darkened = Curve the=20 beams from 45: 7,000 watt searchlights, some riding in TTX cars and some = based=20 on the ground at the visitor center, will pierce straight up into the = nighttime=20 sky. The surrounding hillside will begin to systematically illuminate as = the=20 locomotive begins to trace the arc of the Curve. Section by section the = entire=20 landscape will be revealed in a kinetic and dynamic show of lighting = power=20 turning the hillsides red, white and blue. The interior of each = railcar will=20 be illuminated by Sylvania HPL Ultra Plus Halogen lamps. Additionally a = string=20 of 100 theatrically programmed strobe lights will suggest a 2,500 foot = long=20 shimmering necklace of light.

The synchronization of this event = is a=20 giant challenge of perfect timing and must be delicately choreographed = as to=20 appear effortless in its motion but will actually be the result of a = team of=20 well-rehearsed people working very hard to make every detail perfect. =

The day=92s = agenda is a full=20 one. Both the Museum and = Curve will=20 be open for business as usual. =20 There is entertainment scheduled for the Museum yard all day = including a=20 visit from the Sylvania sponsored #29 GM Goodwrench = NASCAR entry of=20 Kevin Harvick. Upon the = Curve and=20 Museum closing, bus transportation to the Curve will begin. The Curve will be filled with = food and=20 entertainment all evening as well. =20 After remarks from dignitaries, it will be time for the = show. Our train-mounted computerized = light=20 show will be ushered into the Curve by the live sounds of=20 Altoona=92s own Paul Winter and we are = thrilled to=20 have Paul available to be with us for this occasion. Over 33 million lumens of = light will=20 fill the property. With = your=20 average hardware store flashlight pumping out a whopping 30 to 50 = lumens, gather=20 750,000 of your closest friends and lets see if we can begin to approach = the=20 spectacle that will take place July = 4.

And that=92s = not all!! Our friends at Sylvania = Lighting=20 Services have been busy retrofitting the landscape and buildings at the=20 Horseshoe Curve Visitor Center complex. New technology will adorn the = facility=20 there making it more enjoyable not only on July 4^th but for = years to=20 come as Sylvania is graciously leaving all of = those=20 improvements behind permanently.

Then to cap the = evening, a=20 fireworks show from Zambelli Fireworks Internationale. They have certainly earned = their=20 reputation as the First Family of Fireworks. A proud=20 Pennsylvania company that has lit the sky over = the White=20 House for President Kennedy, illuminated Mount = Rushmore, and have been featured at = celebrations for=20 the Statue of Liberty and Washington Monument, they will fill the sky over = Kittanning=20 point reservoir with the most spectacular show to ever be seen in this=20 area.

Many have said=20 that because of the trees, the people at the Visitor Center level will = not see=20 anything. That could not be farther from the truth. This is = not=20 about being able to see the train. There is not that much to = see. =20 The 7000 watt searchlights are the same type of lights used at the World = Trade=20 Center memorial and will be pointed straight up. The hillsides = surrounding=20 the Curve will be lit and certainly the fireworks can be seen from=20 anywhere. Also, If you haven't been to the Curve in a while then = you would=20 know that the statement about trees not being cut is untrue. The = bank on=20 the east side has been clear-cut from the visitor center to the signal = bridge=20 and more of the trees on our property (the big pines) are coming=20 down.

I = would also remind=20 you that if you are planning to ride or hike in to avoid buying an = admission,=20 please do it without trespassing. Otherwise, you may be = meeting=20 railroad, local, state and FEDERAL law enforcement agents as an = extensive list=20 of VIPs have been invited. All are equipped with night vision = gear. Also,=20 as I walked the access road between track 1 and 2 today, the rattlers = and=20 copperheads in the area are quite heavy already. Just a=20 reminder/warning.

I hope = everyone will=20 consider joining us at this once in a lifetime event.

Scott G.=20 Cessna
Executive Director
Railroaders Memorial Museum
Horseshoe = Curve=20 National Historic Landmark

------=_NextPart_000_0279_01C45495.B8950250-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Cessna" Subject: [PRR] PRR Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:39:44 -0400 The Jacks Narrows (Spirit of St Louis) and the Harbor Springs (Broadway) = are both stored here (not serviceable) in Altoona and owned by the = Railroaders Museum.=20 Scott G. Cessna Executive Director Railroaders Memorial Museum Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark ------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C4549A.757D76F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Jacks Narrows (Spirit of St = Louis) and the=20 Harbor Springs (Broadway) are both stored here (not = serviceable) in=20 Altoona and owned by the Railroaders Museum.

Scott G. Cessna
Executive=20 Director
Railroaders Memorial Museum
Horseshoe Curve National = Historic=20 Landmark

------=_NextPart_000_0293_01C4549A.757D76F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: k4sb@niia.net Subject: [PRR] Nice site for Surviving Varnish Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:12:33 -0000 From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:51:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman photos Some list members did not have the site come through. Here it is: http://www.ebluce.com/eblucecollection/ Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS 7487 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ 2003 -------------------------------1087527092 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Some list members did not have the site come through. Here it is:=

http://www.ebluce.c= om/eblucecollection/

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS 7487
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ 2003<= /DIV> -------------------------------1087527092-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Northumberland Roundhouse Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Northumberland Roundhouse Thread-Index: AcRVNy8l1gYVz18CTvaGzHXrue7GPw== From: "Gluckman, Robert" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2004 13:21:37.0967 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F6113F0:01C45537] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone know where I could find good pictures of the Northumberland = roundhouse on the web? I'm trying to bring the AHM/ConCor plastic kit = closer to reality and need a good photo. Bob Gluckman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: RE: [PRR] Surviving Varnish Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:19:03 -0400 There are numerous Pennsylvania Railroad cars in various uses all along the Northeast Corridor. Some are operable and in use as MOW equipment while others are held stationary and used for storage. For example, there are a number of post office-baggage cars with little if any external modifications that are being used in work train service and there are several B60b baggage cars in Washington and Philadelphia that are used for material storage. There are also some PRR box cars just north of Baltimore-Penn Station that are used for material storage. Chris Baker PRRT&HS #1918 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WAMMP236@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:22 PM To: robs@actel.com; fjr@mchsi.com; vze4cs43@verizon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Surviving Varnish The "BIRCH RIVER" resides at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND THE "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter NRHS and are stored in Altoona. Not servicable. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C45560.BC7D82E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

There=20 are numerous Pennsylvania Railroad cars in various uses all along the = Northeast=20 Corridor. Some are operable and in use as MOW equipment while = others are=20 held stationary and used for storage. For example, there are a = number of=20 post office-baggage cars with little if any external modifications that = are=20 being used in work train service and there are several B60b baggage cars = in=20 Washington and Philadelphia that are used for material storage. = There are=20 also some PRR box cars just north of Baltimore-Penn Station that are = used for=20 material storage.

Chris=20 Baker

PRRT&HS #1918

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of = WAMMP236@aol.com
Sent:=20 Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:22 PM
To: robs@actel.com; = fjr@mchsi.com;=20 vze4cs43@verizon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] = Surviving=20 Varnish

The "BIRCH RIVER" resides = at the=20 Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona
The " UNION LEAGUE CLUB" AND = THE=20 "DUQUESNE" both heavyweights are owned by the Horseshoe Curve Chapter = NRHS and=20 are stored in Altoona. Not servicable.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C45560.BC7D82E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John Cooper" Subject: [PRR] Phila Terminal - Operating session Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:42:22 -0700 The Philadelphia Terminal had it's first ever operating session a few = weeks ago. I had some students over from the local technical college = and put them to work as block operators. Each operator had a DCC = throttle and handed trains off to the next operator according to DCC = address almost like the real thing. Two students worked Brill and = Arsenal, two worked Zoo, a few more watched the riverline, highline, and = mainline. We never had any crashes, but the proverbial "Hand of God" = had to lift engines off the rails just a few times. Because the = students had no familiarity with the area, we had metroliners on the = highline and freights in the upper level 30th st. But that's ok, it = just leaves room for improvement next time. As engineering students, = they were really intrigued with the operations of a busy area. If any of you just happen to be wandering around Southern Oregon, stop = in and we'll put you to work. Our listmeister has graciously uploaded some new pictures I took = recently for my webpage on KC. Have a look at = http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/cooper/ John Cooper Klamath Falls, Oregon. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4557D.232E8220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

The Philadelphia Terminal had it's = first ever=20 operating session a few weeks ago. I had some students over from = the local=20 technical college and put them to work as block operators. Each = operator=20 had a DCC throttle and handed trains off to the next operator according = to DCC=20 address almost like the real thing. Two students worked Brill = and=20 Arsenal, two worked Zoo, a few more watched the riverline, highline, and = mainline. We never had any crashes, but the proverbial "Hand of = God" had=20 to lift engines off the rails just a few times. Because the = students had=20 no familiarity with the area, we had metroliners on the highline and = freights in=20 the upper level 30th st. But that's ok, it just leaves room for=20 improvement next time. As engineering students, they were really = intrigued=20 with the operations of a busy area.

If any of you just happen to be = wandering around=20 Southern Oregon, stop in and we'll put you to work.

Our listmeister has graciously uploaded = some new=20 pictures I took recently for my webpage on KC. Have a look at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/la= youts/cooper/

John Cooper

Klamath Falls, = Oregon.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C4557D.232E8220-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Freight Train Question #2 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:30:35 +0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks to everyone who answered my first question. Here's my second question to try to better represent the Pennsy on my Altoona layout: On the timetables I've seen, there don't appear to be any locals to switch the industries on the Hollidaysburg branch. For that matter, I don't see any locals eastbound or westbound either. Can someone please explain how pennsy handled this in Altoona? Thanks again. Ron ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] passenger car designations Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:07:58 -0400 List; The CRPS has just received a huge donation of PRR documents, part of = which are passenger car drawings. The custodian of these documents wants = me to ask this group for an accurate source that can decipher what = "PDB70AR", PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number so they can = start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles Ray in = Connecticut......... Earl Myers PRRT&HS member Board Member, CRPS ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C455F6.0F5C75D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

List;

The CRPS has just received a = huge donation=20 of PRR documents, part of which are passenger car drawings. The = custodian of=20 these documents wants me to ask this group for an accurate source = that can=20 decipher what "PDB70AR", PUW127", "PDB85R", etc., means by letter/number = so they=20 can start to file these drawings. This collection came from a Charles = Ray in=20 Connecticut.........

Earl Myers

PRRT&HS