Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:23:54 -0600 Subject: [PRR] AC freight symbols From: Frederick Ripley From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] AC freight symbols Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:43:26 -0500 Aaahhhhh, those mystery AC trains!! Fred and the List: "AC" trains were on the Ft. Wayne line in 1965 as well. There were 2; = AC-1 and AC-2. They appear to run almost daily. AC-1 would go past = Warsaw in the evening after 10pm. AC-2 typically arrived in Warsaw in = the mid-afternoon. It is interesting to not that both of these trains = did not appear in the ETT of 1965 while they ran almost every day. The = typical motive power on these trains were 2nd generation diesels like = GP-30's GP-35's and U-25-B's. The Pennsy had a fragmented and inconsistent system of naming freights. = This is one area where the Standard Railroad of the World, wasn't. From = what I can tell, the Pennsy had 4 basic categories where freight symbols = could fall under: The first train symbols are Commodity-based. Trains like "TT-1" (an = intermodal Truc-Train), "LCL-1" (Less than CarLoad), "FW-8" (Feed Water = livestock), "NF-6" (Non - Feed water livestock) were all named based on = the commodites that they hauled. However, one cannot tell what the = origin and destination of these trains are just by looking at the = symbols The second train symbols were Origin-Destination based. Trains like CB-1 = / CB-2 were Chicago to Boston and CG-2 was Chicago to Greenville. Note = with these train symbols, one can determine the origin and destination = but cannot determine what the train is hauling. Would "AC" trains fall = in this category? If the "C" stood for Chicago, what did the "A" stand = for? Another train that may fall in this category is CS-8. The third category are "semi-destination" train symbols. Westbound = trains like WC-5 stood for "West Coast" trains. Likewise "SWC-1" trains = on the Panhandle were heading for the "South West Coast". These trains = did not go all of the way to the coast but rather interchanged with = railroads in Chicago and St. Louis that did. Also, one cannot tell from = the symbol on the EXACT origin and destination of the train. The last category were "divisional" trains. These were typically locals = however, the names were not consistent with other divisions. The Ft. = Wayne Division locals were named FW-13, FW 24, etc. Please note that = this is in conflict with the FW-8 live stock train mentioned above. In a = neighboring division, the Logansport Division trains were named with a = "LD-" prefix; I read somewhere that LD stood for "Logansport Dispatch." And were are talking only about the mid-1960's!!! Pick up a number of = ETT's a few years apart and you will see an alphabet soup of train = symbols that come and go as quickly as the sun sets. So, what does AC mean? How about CS-8? or GRE-2? If any of you out there = have information on these trains, please reply back to Fred and me. I = am giving a presentation on Warsaw at this years convention and will be = discussing train symbols briefly. Any information will be greatly = appreciated. Ted Andrews ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Ripley=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 11:23 AM Subject: [PRR] AC freight symbols Hi All, I am hoping someone can supply some information about several freight symbols. In the Western Region ETT of 10/30/66, 2 new freight schedules are = AC-2 and AC-4. Both originate in Chicago, and travel the Ft. Wayne main to the = east end of the Region (Lucas, OH). However, the Central Region ETT of the same date shows neither train! Conversely, this timetable shows a westbound on the Ft. Wayne line, = AC-1, that leaves the Central Region at Lucas, but is not listed on the = Western Region schedules. Does anyone know anything about these trains? Thanks, Fred R. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C40463.505A8700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Aaahhhhh, those mystery AC trains!!
 
Fred and the List:
 
"AC" trains were on the Ft. Wayne line in 1965 as well. There were = 2; AC-1=20 and AC-2. They appear to run almost daily. AC-1 would go past Warsaw in = the=20 evening after 10pm. AC-2 typically arrived in Warsaw in the = mid-afternoon. It is=20 interesting to not that both of these trains did not appear in the ETT = of 1965=20 while they ran almost every day. The typical motive power on these = trains were=20 2nd generation diesels like GP-30's GP-35's and U-25-B's.
 
The Pennsy had a fragmented and inconsistent system of naming = freights.=20 This is one area where the Standard Railroad of the World, wasn't. From = what I=20 can tell, the Pennsy had 4 basic categories where freight symbols could = fall=20 under:
 
The first train symbols are Commodity-based. Trains like "TT-1" (an = intermodal Truc-Train), "LCL-1" (Less than CarLoad), "FW-8" (Feed Water=20 livestock), "NF-6" (Non - Feed water livestock) were all named based on = the=20 commodites that they hauled. However, one cannot tell what the origin = and=20 destination of these trains are just by looking at the symbols
 
The second train symbols were Origin-Destination based. Trains like = CB-1 /=20 CB-2 were Chicago to Boston and CG-2 was Chicago to Greenville. Note = with these=20 train symbols, one can determine the origin and destination but cannot = determine=20 what the train is hauling. Would "AC" trains fall in this category? If = the "C"=20 stood for Chicago, what did the "A" stand for? Another train that may = fall in=20 this category is CS-8.
 
The third category are "semi-destination" train symbols. Westbound = trains=20 like WC-5 stood for "West Coast" trains. Likewise "SWC-1" = trains on=20 the Panhandle were heading for the "South West Coast". These trains = did not=20 go all of the way to the coast but rather interchanged with railroads=20 in Chicago and St. Louis that did. Also, one cannot tell from = the=20 symbol on the EXACT origin and destination of the train.
 
The last category were "divisional" trains. These were = typically=20 locals however, the names were not consistent with other=20 divisions. The Ft. Wayne Division locals were named = FW-13, FW 24,=20 etc. Please note that this is in conflict with the FW-8 live stock = train=20 mentioned above. In a neighboring division, the Logansport Division = trains were=20 named with a "LD-" prefix; I read somewhere that LD stood for=20 "Logansport Dispatch."
 
And were are talking only about the mid-1960's!!! Pick up a number = of=20 ETT's a few years apart and you will see an alphabet soup of train = symbols=20 that come and go as quickly as the sun sets.
 
So, what does AC mean? How about CS-8? or GRE-2? If = any of=20 you out there have information on these trains, please reply = back to=20 Fred and me.  I am giving a presentation on Warsaw at=20 this years convention and will be discussing train = symbols=20 briefly. Any information will be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Ted Andrews
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Frederick Ripley
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com=
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 = 11:23=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] AC freight = symbols

Hi All,

I am hoping someone can supply some = information=20 about several freight
symbols.

In the Western Region ETT of=20 10/30/66, 2 new freight schedules are AC-2 and
AC-4.  Both = originate=20 in Chicago, and travel the Ft. Wayne main to the east
end of the = Region=20 (Lucas, OH).

However, the Central Region ETT of the same date = shows=20 neither train!
Conversely, this timetable shows a westbound on the = Ft.=20 Wayne line, AC-1,
that leaves the Central Region at Lucas, but is = not=20 listed on the Western
Region schedules.

Does anyone know = anything=20 about these trains?

Thanks, Fred=20 = R.



-------------------------------------------------------= ----------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C40463.505A8700-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:36:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] AC freight symbols X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another train symbol which did appear in the ETT is train PY which originally ran from Pitcairn to Youngstown but really ran to Niles, OH. Later it ran from Conway to Niles. The Niles PY crews were regularly on overtime and often "outlawing" on the 16 hour day. The Ashtabula crews which only had seasonal ore and coal work,were hungry for year round work and convinced the Supt. that they could get the train over the road on schedule - which they did. The train then ran from Conway to Ashtabula and was still called PY - It was crewed from the "pool" crew list Dick Wilkison ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] AC freight symbols Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 18:40:11 -0500 Ted, et al., GRE-2 = Chicago (55th St.) - Enola. Daily, the"Midwest Merchant," from 1954 Brief book It's quite possible that the "GR" originally stood for Gary (Indiana), and the service was later moved west to 55th St. On the E&P in the early days Sharon was an origin and destination point, and the letter "S" was used to designate it in some symbol freights. When Wheatland yard was built most of the trains originated and terminated there yet many still carried the "S" symbol rather than "W", which was used also. I did see a local symbol freight in one of my several brief books that used "GR" to mean Gary. But this is just speculation on my part. CS-8 = Chicago (55th St) - Enola. Daily, from 1936, 1954 Brief books. In PC daze it had been extended to Greenville, NJ AC-1 = Akron-Columbus in 1972 PC daze, but of course that doesn't make any sense going by Warsaw. AC-2 = Columbus-Akron in 1972 PC daze, but of course that doesn't make any sense going by Warsaw either. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C40473.9FE56E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Ted, et=20 al.,
 
GRE-2 =3D Chicago = (55th St.) -=20 Enola.  Daily, the"Midwest Merchant," from 1954 Brief book  = It's quite=20 possible that the "GR" originally stood for Gary (Indiana), and the = service was=20 later moved west to 55th St. On the E&P in the early days Sharon was = an=20 origin and destination point, and the letter "S" was used to designate = it in=20 some symbol freights. When Wheatland yard was built most of the trains=20 originated and terminated there yet many still carried the "S" symbol = rather=20 than "W", which was used also. I did see a local symbol freight = in one of=20 my several brief books that used "GR" to mean Gary. But this is just = speculation=20 on my part.
 
CS-8 =3D Chicago = (55th St) -=20 Enola.  Daily, from 1936, 1954 Brief books. In PC daze it had been = extended=20 to Greenville, NJ
 
AC-1 =3D = Akron-Columbus in 1972=20 PC daze, but of course that doesn't make any sense going by=20 Warsaw.
 
AC-2 =3D = Columbus-Akron in 1972=20 PC daze, but of course that doesn't make any sense going by Warsaw=20 either.
 
Al
 
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C40473.9FE56E60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:56:31 -0600 From: Randy Subject: RE: [PRR] AC freight symbols From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:05:53 -0500 After a brief hiatus, I will resume giving you tidbits of actual train = operations at KS tower, on the Fort Wayne Line in Warsaw, Indiana. A Mystery Engine....... ......On May 22 1965, TT-2 went through Warsaw at 3:08 am headed by = engine number 3668. Average speed between Plymouth and Warsaw was just = over 53 miles per hour. What was 3668? No other reporting marks were = given. Still, it was on one of the Pennsy's top trains. That is it for now. Stay tuned for more rail drama from Warsaw on this = list! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C404A1.2C7C35C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
After a brief hiatus, I will resume giving you tidbits of actual = train=20 operations at KS tower, on the Fort Wayne Line in Warsaw, Indiana.
 
A Mystery Engine.......
 
.......On May 22 1965, TT-2 went through=20 Warsaw at 3:08 am headed by engine number 3668. Average = speed between=20 Plymouth and=20 Warsaw was just over 53 = miles per=20 hour. What was 3668? No other reporting marks were given. Still, it was = on one=20 of the Pennsy's top trains.
 
 
That is it for now. Stay tuned for more rail drama = from Warsaw=20 on this list!
 
Ted Andrews
Carmel, Indiana
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C404A1.2C7C35C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:55:14 -0600 Subject: [PRR] AC and other Ft. Wayne schedules From: Frederick Ripley From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:28:01 +0000 >From: ELDEN GATWOOD >Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:23:28 -0800 >From: Ted Andrews [mailto:Ted_Andrews@msn.com] >Subject: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:24:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... From: Frederick Ripley Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:39:14 -0500 Subject: Reminder Re: [PRR] Harrisburg, Pa., Train Show on March 13th From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Reminder for this Saturday -- and here's a MapQuest link: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/ map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&address=200+Gibson+Street &city=Steelton&state=PA&zipcode=&submit=Get+Map On Tuesday, March 2, 2004, at 02:16 PM, Jerry Britton wrote: > I'd like to invite anyone who is in the area to visit the 18th Annual > Harrisburg Railroad Show and Collector's Market, to be held at the I. > W. Abel Union Hall (Steelworkers Union), 200 Gibson St., Steelton, PA > 17113 on Saturday, March 13th. Doors open 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. Sponsored by > the Harrisburg Chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society. > > This show is not large, by any means. I think there are usually about > 80 tables or so. I'll be there (Merchandise Service) with several BLI > locomotives hooked up to a DCC system for your listening pleasure! > > The NRHS Harrisburg Chapter will be running their HO modular layout > and I know my personal friend Bill Lewis will have a decent sized N > scale layout running. > > So if you know not what to do on this day, and you are within a > reasonable driving distance, please stop by! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:14:01 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:00:56 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:17:38 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:33:00 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:46:47 -0800 Subject: [PRR] MP-54 From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <19A81EBF-714A-11D8-A183-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK2 0.31-18 ip=216.93.194.144 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > This has probably been asked but I don't remember it within the last > two years. Since the MP-54 coach and motors had no diaphragms, could a > passenger travel between cars? If so, wasn't it really loud, hot, cold, > wet, annoying? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:05:56 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: LIRR MP54's, the answer was yes. THey had chains between cars, rather than diaphragms. Is the PRR MP%$ at RRMPa gonna be repaired or replaced? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Phila chapter High Line mag... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:10:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, Does anyone have a list of the issues of the High Line that were published? I was trying to figure out which issues I'm missing but since it wasn't published very regularly I can't really tell... Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:33:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ted, UP and CB&Q units did lead PRR trains from Chicago to East Conway from time to time from the mid 1960s to the merger. A very good friend of mine was an engineer on the FT. Wayne and also operated trains over to Altoona and told me that many times he would wait for eastbound TT2 at East Conway with one PRR locomotive because the consist was CB&Q-UP power. At that time, the Ft. Wayne didn't have cab signals. I think there are some published photos of UP-CB&Q lead trains on the Ft. Wayne. Also there is a tape/DVD that shows CB&Q-UP units leading PRR trains on the Ft. Wayne. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:38:31 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Aha! The 1949 chart clearly shows the "lap" configuration. And now that I look more closely at my Interlocking diagram, they do indeed match. I missed the fact that the main ran through the crossover. Alas, I will not have room to model the entire "West" siding -- it will be a dummy track ending behind my backdrop. The "East" siding will be fully operational, however. Thanks, Dennis and Derrick! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" To: "Dennis Rockwell" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 > On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > > On 8 Mar, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 8 Mar 2004, Dennis Rockwell wrote: > > > > > > > Interesting! A December 1965 track chart I downloaded from > > > > Derrick Brashear [ ... ] > > > > > > isn't there a 1940s chart covering that territory on my site now? or do i > > > misremember what day grimes' chart covered? > > > > Umm, not that I can find, but I can't find *any* charts on > > your site. The chart I have doesn't have any name on it > > that I can see. > > http://prr.dementia.org/documents/documents.html > > scroll down. > > > If you have an earlier chart online, I'm *very* interested! > > Eastern Region Wilkes-Barre Division 1949. > > I see South Danville on page 4 of the PDF. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:08:11 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:44:38 -0600 From: Randy Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:35:59 -0500 Randy: Thanks for the info. I had a sneaking suspicion that CB&Q power in the = mid-60's was 3-digit numbered. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randy=20 To: zootowerprr@webtv.net ; Ted Andrews=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... You can rule out CB&Q power. According to their diesel roster from = 1968, they have no locomotive with a 4 digit number. Randy For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C40566.1C574160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Randy:
 
Thanks for the info. I had a sneaking suspicion that CB&Q power = in the=20 mid-60's was 3-digit numbered.
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy
To: zootowerprr@webtv.net ; Ted Andrews
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 = 10:44=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery = engine at=20 Warsaw Tower.......

You can rule out CB&Q power.  According to = their=20 diesel roster from 1968, they have no locomotive with a 4 digit=20 number.

Randy

For = assistance with=20 this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C40566.1C574160-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Lines West Tower Standards Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:22:12 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I've been on a tower kick lately. For the gentelmen that model Pennsy Lines West. Was there a rough standard design for a brick interlocking tower? TAOT Best Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:45:20 -0500 Dave: Thanks for the info. and sources. VERY interesting. In fact, one source = is Pennsy Power II where Al Stauffer rides from Crestline to Conway with = one PRR GP-30 leading 3 CB&Q and 1 UP GP-30's. Really neat!!=20 It sounds like foreign power was able to lead PRR trains west of = Pittsburgh. Engine No. 3668 could then be something from another = railroad......but which one?? At any rate, I will need to get a few P2K CB&Q, UP and CRI&P engines for = my layout now. I wonder if I can sneak a C&NW, Milw, or Santa Fe unit in = as well...... Thanks again! Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: zootowerprr@webtv.net=20 To: Ted Andrews=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:33 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery engine at Warsaw Tower....... Ted, UP and CB&Q units did lead PRR trains from Chicago to East = Conway from time to time from the mid 1960s to the merger.=20 A very good friend of mine was an engineer on the FT. Wayne = and also operated trains over to Altoona and told me that many times he would wait for eastbound TT2 at East Conway with one PRR locomotive because the consist was CB&Q-UP power. At that time, the Ft. Wayne didn't have cab signals.=20 I think there are some published photos of UP-CB&Q lead trains = on the Ft. Wayne. Also there is a tape/DVD that shows CB&Q-UP units = leading PRR trains on the Ft. Wayne.=20 Hope this helps. Dave Hopson =20 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C40567.6AFDBA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave:
 
Thanks for the info. and sources. VERY interesting. In fact, one = source is=20 Pennsy Power II where Al Stauffer rides from Crestline to Conway with = one PRR=20 GP-30 leading 3 CB&Q and 1 UP GP-30's. Really neat!!
 
It sounds like foreign power was able to lead PRR trains west of=20 Pittsburgh. Engine No. 3668 could then be something from another=20 railroad......but which one??
 
At any rate, I will need to get a few P2K CB&Q, UP=20 and CRI&P engines for my layout now. I wonder if I can = sneak a=20 C&NW, Milw, or Santa Fe unit in as well......
 
Thanks again!
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From: zootowerprr@webtv.net
To: Ted Andrews
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 = 7:33=20 PM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Mystery = engine at=20 Warsaw Tower.......

Ted,

       UP and = CB&Q units did lead PRR trains from Chicago to East Conway
from = time to=20 time from the mid 1960s to the merger.=20
        A very good friend of = mine was=20 an engineer on the FT. Wayne and
also operated trains over to = Altoona and=20 told me that many times he
would wait for eastbound TT2 at East = Conway with=20 one PRR locomotive
because the consist was CB&Q-UP power. At = that time,=20 the Ft. Wayne
didn't have cab signals.=20
       I think there are some = published=20 photos of UP-CB&Q lead trains on
the Ft. Wayne. Also there is a = tape/DVD that shows CB&Q-UP units leading
PRR trains on the Ft. = Wayne.=20
Hope this helps.

 Dave=20 = Hopson
 


---------------------------------------------= --------------------------
For=20 assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com.
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C40567.6AFDBA00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Decal HELP!! Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:13:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I was done decaling an HO Jones and Laughlin car. I wipe the decals down to clean off the glue residue around the edges when I had a problem. A section of the decal was removed and is unusable. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/HO_JL.jpg I only had 1 set to do this car. I need the JONE only as in the photo. Please reply even if you have a partial set of Champ HO J&L set HT-185. I have already tried Champ to no avail. This must be an extremely rare decal set to find, as a friend who has been painting HO full time for years does not even have a set. I may have to use a Microscale gothic lettering set, but the selection of sizes is just under or just over the perfect height if the real decal set. My customer went to great lengths to detail this car out. I want to make the car as perfect as possible. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:13:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Decal HELP!! Hi All, I was done decaling an HO Jones and Laughlin car. I wipe the decals down to clean off the glue residue around the edges when I had a problem. A section of the decal was removed and is unusable. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/HO_JL.jpg I only had 1 set to do this car. I need the JONE only as in the photo. Please reply even if you have a partial set of Champ HO J&L set HT-185. I have already tried Champ to no avail. This must be an extremely rare decal set to find, as a friend who has been painting HO full time for years does not even have a set. I may have to use a Microscale gothic lettering set, but the selection of sizes is just under or just over the perfect height if the real decal set. My customer went to great lengths to detail this car out. I want to make the car as perfect as possible. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:13:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Decal HELP!! Hi All, I was done decaling an HO Jones and Laughlin car. I wipe the decals down to clean off the glue residue around the edges when I had a problem. A section of the decal was removed and is unusable. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/HO_JL.jpg I only had 1 set to do this car. I need the JONE only as in the photo. Please reply even if you have a partial set of Champ HO J&L set HT-185. I have already tried Champ to no avail. This must be an extremely rare decal set to find, as a friend who has been painting HO full time for years does not even have a set. I may have to use a Microscale gothic lettering set, but the selection of sizes is just under or just over the perfect height if the real decal set. My customer went to great lengths to detail this car out. I want to make the car as perfect as possible. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:52:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Passenger Trucks From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Reviewing passenger car trucks last night, specifically, for post-war lightweights. One source, penned by Chuck Blardone, indicates most (if not all) of these cars had "PRR 2E-P5" trucks. The Pullman Library, Volume 4, makes some mention in the back about Commonwealth truck "knock offs". I tried comparing photos. I need an informed opinion... Are Commonwealth 4-wheel trucks and PRR 2E-P5 trucks the same, or nearly the same? The application is N scale, so rivet counting is not essential. I am trying to compare the PRR 2E-P5 trucks to the Micro-Trains 4-wheel Commonwealth truck, which can be viewed at http://www.micro-trains.com/Cuts/1017x.jpg Please refrain from jokes about the HUGE coupler! I would not be using these. I would body mount. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:52:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Passenger Trucks From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Reviewing passenger car trucks last night, specifically, for post-war lightweights. One source, penned by Chuck Blardone, indicates most (if not all) of these cars had "PRR 2E-P5" trucks. The Pullman Library, Volume 4, makes some mention in the back about Commonwealth truck "knock offs". I tried comparing photos. I need an informed opinion... Are Commonwealth 4-wheel trucks and PRR 2E-P5 trucks the same, or nearly the same? The application is N scale, so rivet counting is not essential. I am trying to compare the PRR 2E-P5 trucks to the Micro-Trains 4-wheel Commonwealth truck, which can be viewed at http://www.micro-trains.com/Cuts/1017x.jpg Please refrain from jokes about the HUGE coupler! I would not be using these. I would body mount. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:54:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP-54 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:47:27 +0000 From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:20:16 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ndbprr@att.net asked: Did any ever have PRR markings? It is curious that with the volume of cars that wound up on the PRR that they had none. Anyone care to venture a guess as to why? The short answer is that from a car maintenance and utilization standpoint, it was much easier for railroads to band together and form consortiums to manage refrigerator car fleets [Ex: Pacific Fruit Express (UP/SP)]. The Pennsy was a major player in Fruit Growers Express; there were reefers with PRR reporting marks early in the 20th Century, but almost all cars were transferred to FGEX upon its start-up in 1922. A few Class RF reefers in express service stayed in PRR reporting marks until 1928. A few railroad did manage their own fleets of freight reefers (ATSF [SFRD], CN, and CP are the most prominent examples), but the majority of roads followed this business model. For a quick overview, check out this page at Keystone Crossings: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/reefer.ws4d Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:25:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars I'm not an expert, but Westerfield lists models for PRR class RF reefers, circa 1900. I believe the Penn also used an outside-braced design. In later years, Penn was a member of Fruit Growers Express. Most railroads did not own reefers as they were expensive, limited use cars. Railroads have always tried to limit their car fleets to boxcars, flats, gons and hoppers, and let the private owners supply the more expensive cars. Bill --part1_1c9.16412ab3.2d7fac82_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I'm not an expert, but Westerfield=20= lists models for PRR class RF reefers, circa 1900.  I believe the Penn=20= also used an outside-braced design.  In later years, Penn was a member=20= of Fruit Growers Express.  Most railroads did not own reefers as they w= ere expensive, limited use cars.  Railroads have always tried to limit=20= their car fleets to boxcars, flats, gons and hoppers, and let the private ow= ners supply the more expensive cars.  Bill --part1_1c9.16412ab3.2d7fac82_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:41:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <030920042247.14758.52f4@att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Did any ever have PRR markings? The answers for the earlier periods have been covered. In the later years there were cars that were technically reefers, carrying the AAR Mechanical Designation of RBL. They were bunkerless refrigerator cars that I always referred to as insulated boxcars. For example see pg 95 PRR CG1. The cars were listed under the PRR in the ORER, as Refrigerator, All Steel AAR RBL but w/o and PRR class numbers and were in number series 91887-91911 and 92861-92880. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:05:55 -0600 Bill (BillyDee53@aol.com) wrote: I believe the Penn also used an outside-braced design. That design is PRR Class R7, which is essentially the Class X23 boxcar = with ice bunkers and reefer doors: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=3DPRR_104429_R7_3= 4view.jpg&fr=3DclR7 All cars went to FGEX. Some cars were rebuilt with plug doors and ran = into the 1960s under NX reporting marks (subsidiary of FGEX). BTW, "outside braced" is another one of those modeler's terms which = simply wasn't used in industry publications. The "bracing" of an = "outside braced" car do not structurally brace the sides. They actually = serve as a truss which carries the weight of the car and its load. The = proper industry term is "single sheathed," which refers to the fact that = the wooden sheathing of the car serves as both exterior sheathing and = the car lining. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_016C_01C40611.EE556100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill (BillyDee53@aol.com) wrote:
I believe the = Penn also used an=20 outside-braced design.
 
That design is PRR Class R7, which is essentially the Class X23 = boxcar with=20 ice bunkers and reefer doors:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightph= otos.html?photo=3DPRR_104429_R7_34view.jpg&fr=3DclR7
 
All cars went to FGEX.  Some cars were rebuilt with plug doors = and ran=20 into the 1960s under NX reporting marks (subsidiary of FGEX).
 
BTW, "outside braced" is another one of those modeler's terms=20 which simply wasn't used in industry publications.  = The "bracing"=20 of an "outside braced" car do not structurally brace the sides.  = They=20 actually serve as a truss which carries the weight of the car and its=20 load.  The proper industry term is "single sheathed," which refers = to the=20 fact that the wooden sheathing of the car serves as both exterior = sheathing and=20 the car lining.
 
 
Ben Hom  
------=_NextPart_000_016C_01C40611.EE556100-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:23:36 -0500 From: Bill Subject: [PRR] Inquirer article on the P&C Railroad Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In today's Inquirer's Local News (Philadelphia & its Suburbs) section on page 12, there's an article concerning the research being done by William Watson and John Ahtes, professors at Immaculata College, about the mass grave of 57 P&C workers at Duffy's Cut in Malvern, PA. The remains were placed in Malvern after the workers fatally contracted black diphtheria and is marked by a stone memorial. The professors are investigating if the location of the gravesite is correct based on papers inherited by Watson and his twin brother Frank. Their grandfather, Joseph Tripician, was the personal secretary to Martin Clement, President of the PRR. Mr. Tripician removed the papers from Penn Central's vault in 1970. Sounds like a good idea for an "Observation Car" tour. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank & Andrea Amato" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:28:39 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Dennis, Derrick, and list, I took a few minutes to post the Kips Interlocking diagram from my 1965 book: http://home.mchsi.com/~amato/graphics/1965-susq-dist-kips.gif Note that your browser may shrink it to fit on your screen. If you open it with a graphics program, you should be able to see all the detail. BTW, what are the "identifiers" (for lack of better term) along each track. For example "F2", "E2", and "DD2"? Are these block numbers? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Rockwell" To: "Derrick J Brashear" Cc: ; Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Kips Interlocking circa 1960 > On 8 Mar, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > > http://prr.dementia.org/documents/documents.html > > > > Eastern Region Wilkes-Barre Division 1949. > > > > I see South Danville on page 4 of the PDF. > > Yep! Excellent! > > Frank, this shows (I think) that we're both right. It's > shown here as a long (2.5mi) siding with a crossover in the > middle. However, the main line (the darker line) takes the > crossover, which would imply to me that it is in fact > arranged as a lap siding, since I wouldn't expect the > mainline to take a crossover. > > Whether those turnouts are a pair of lefts or rights > wouldn't change how the signalling was designed, would it? > > There is another lap siding at Mifflin/Creasy which the > chart shows as I could expect to lay it out, and a > three-track water stop between Nescopeck and Wapwallopen > which explains the oddball divergence in later charts. > > Very very good info here. Thanks, Derrick! > > Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:34:03 -0500 Ben, In the case of a refrigerator car, the sheathing could not be both = exterior surface and interior lining, as there was some insulation = involved between the sheathing and the lining. So the R7 could not = really be considered "single sheathed". The X23, yes, the R7, no. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Benjamin Frank Hom=20 To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Bill (BillyDee53@aol.com) wrote: I believe the Penn also used an outside-braced design. That design is PRR Class R7, which is essentially the Class X23 boxcar = with ice bunkers and reefer doors: = http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=3DPRR_104429_R7_3= 4view.jpg&fr=3DclR7 All cars went to FGEX. Some cars were rebuilt with plug doors and ran = into the 1960s under NX reporting marks (subsidiary of FGEX). BTW, "outside braced" is another one of those modeler's terms which = simply wasn't used in industry publications. The "bracing" of an = "outside braced" car do not structurally brace the sides. They actually = serve as a truss which carries the weight of the car and its load. The = proper industry term is "single sheathed," which refers to the fact that = the wooden sheathing of the car serves as both exterior sheathing and = the car lining. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_01FA_01C4061E.3E64DE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ben,
 
In the case of a refrigerator car, the sheathing = could not be=20 both exterior surface and interior lining, as there was some insulation = involved=20 between the sheathing and the lining. So the R7 could not really be = considered=20 "single sheathed". The X23, yes, the R7, no.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Benjamin=20 Frank Hom
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 = 9:05=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator = cars

Bill (BillyDee53@aol.com) = wrote:
I believe the = Penn also used=20 an outside-braced design.
 
That design is PRR Class R7, which is essentially the Class X23 = boxcar=20 with ice bunkers and reefer doors:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightph= otos.html?photo=3DPRR_104429_R7_34view.jpg&fr=3DclR7
 
All cars went to FGEX.  Some cars were rebuilt with plug = doors and=20 ran into the 1960s under NX reporting marks (subsidiary of = FGEX).
 
BTW, "outside braced" is another one of those modeler's terms=20 which simply wasn't used in industry publications. =20 The "bracing" of an "outside braced" car do not structurally = brace the=20 sides.  They actually serve as a truss which carries the weight = of the=20 car and its load.  The proper industry term is "single sheathed," = which=20 refers to the fact that the wooden sheathing of the car serves as both = exterior sheathing and the car lining.
 
 
Ben Hom  
------=_NextPart_000_01FA_01C4061E.3E64DE80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Re: [STMFC] Request for Comments: S Scale PRR Covered Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:43:49 -0600 Paul S. asked: Attached is a link to an American Models S scale PRR covered hopper=20 (http://www.americanmodels.com/_photos/3308.jpg).=20 Would be interested in the group's thoughts as to how prototypical it=20 is. First, it's off-topic for this list as it's a post-1960 car. PRR did buy 185 Class H46 PS-2 CD covered hoppers from Pullman-Standard = in 1965; however, the paint and lettering on this model is executed = poorly. The car number is bogus (PRR 260084 is a Class H42 cylindrical = covered hopper), and the paint and lettering are a crappy rendition of a = PRR covered hopper paint scheme. The car should be in the final Plain = Keystone scheme with large gothic reporting marks and numerals. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C4061F.9BAD5F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul S. asked:
Attached is a link to an American Models S scale PRR covered = hopper=20
(http://www.amer= icanmodels.com/_photos/3308.jpg).=20
Would be interested in the group's thoughts as to how prototypical = it=20
is.
First, it's off-topic for this list as it's a post-1960 = car.
 
PRR did buy 185 Class H46 PS-2 CD covered hoppers = from=20 Pullman-Standard in 1965; however, the paint and lettering on this model = is=20 executed poorly.  The car number is bogus (PRR 260084 is a Class = H42=20 cylindrical covered hopper), and the paint and lettering = are a crappy=20 rendition of a PRR covered hopper paint scheme.  The car = should be in=20 the final Plain Keystone scheme with large gothic reporting marks and=20 numerals.
 
 
Ben = Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C4061F.9BAD5F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:46:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars From: smithbf@vetmed.auburn.edu X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Did any ever have PRR markings? It is curious that with the volume of > cars that wound up on the PRR that they had none. Anyone care to venture > a guess as to why? In addition to the responses already given, I will note that the PRR did maintain a fleet of express refrigerators in the form of the R50B and much more rare R60. These were technically considered as part of the passenger car fleet, but at many times the R50Bs operated as freight equipment. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn AL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:25:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Revisited: Federal Glass Company in Columbus, OH on T&OC In a message dated 3/8/04 11:48:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Garrett.Rea@worldnet.att.net writes: > Gents: > > Actually Mark, after sending the "send me her adress e-mail" I am surprised > you are asking this..... > > The N&W (heading N-S)was a few blocks east, not near the plant. The T&OC > came into > Cow-lumbus along Marion Road (E-W), turned north and served a few > industries. > Then the whole line swings north, heading along the river. There are a > ton of industries along this road...or there were 10 years ago. > Garrett Rea > Nashville, TN > Garrett and Mark, Looking at my trusty SPV map of Columbus, I assume the locale is not only on the T&OC Western Branch west of Truro, but a bit west of Bannon where the N&W crossing/interchange is. I don't remember them, but the map shows three lengthy spurs off the north side of the T&OC (the middle one is the longest and is shown as going to Techneglas). Now further questions: along the Scioto the T&OC and C&O are shown swapping sides as they head north to their crossing of the Little Miami at Scioto Tower (required PRR content): 1. where did they cross, South Columbus or Frankfort St.? 2. didn't the T&OC have a yard called Frankfort Street? I assume it lay on the river side of the main. What facilities were there and when did it disappear? (It was still there quite while after Buckeye opened, and visible as you entered Columbus on I-71 from the south). 3. the T&OC had their own station just south of Scioto Tower (and between two crossings of the Scioto River). Was it always called Columbus, or previously West Columbus or Franklintown? 4. even back in Hocking Valley days (pre-C&O), did the passenger trains from the coal fields back up a Pennsy line to reach Columbus Union Depot? BTW, Mike Walker's SPV atlases are usually very good at showing yards and former yards, but the Great Lakes East volume falls apart on the Columbus area map, showing no: T&OC Frankfort St. PRR (Little Miami) Water Street PRR Yard A PRR Yard B PRR Grogan Yard PRR Pennor Yard PRR Spruce St (coachyards west of CUDepot) PRR St. Clair Avenue Shops CCC&StL yard east of Miami Crossing (I don't even remember the name -- this was the first thing to be wiped out by freeway construction I imagine). All these yards are now abandoned, and most sites long since cleared for other purposes. Of course, if all the above were to be shown, it might require a "downtown Columbus" inset map to handle the detail usefully. "America has rolled by like an army of steam rollers. It's been built, destroyed, and then built again" -- James Earl Jones monolog in Field of Dreams Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_24.50d4b154.2d7fe49e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/8/04 11:48:22=20= PM Eastern Standard Time, Garrett.Rea@worldnet.att.net writes:

Gents:

Actually Mark, after sending the "send me her adress e-mail"  I am surp= rised
you are asking this.....

The N&W (heading N-S)was a few blocks east, not near the plant.  Th= e T&OC came into
Cow-lumbus along Marion Road (E-W), turned north and served a few industries= .
Then the whole line swings north, heading along the river.   = There are a
ton of industries along this road...or there were 10 years ago.
=


<snip>

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN


Garrett and Mark,

Looking at my trusty SPV map of Columbus, I assume the locale is not only on= the T&OC Western Branch west of Truro, but a bit west of Bannon where t= he N&W crossing/interchange is.  I don't remember them, but the map= shows three lengthy spurs off the north side of the T&OC (the middle on= e is the longest and is shown as going to Techneglas).

Now further questions: along the Scioto the T&OC and C&O are shown s= wapping sides as they head north to their crossing of the Little Miami at Sc= ioto Tower (required PRR content):
1. where did they cross, South Columbus or Frankfort St.?
2. didn't the T&OC have a yard called Frankfort Street?  I assume i= t lay on the river side of the main.  What facilities were there and wh= en did it disappear?  (It was still there quite while after Buckeye ope= ned, and visible as you entered Columbus on I-71 from the south).
3. the T&OC had their own station just south of Scioto Tower (and betwee= n two crossings of the Scioto River).  Was it always called Columbus, o= r previously West Columbus or Franklintown?
4. even back in Hocking Valley days (pre-C&O), did the passenger trains=20= from the coal fields back up a Pennsy line to reach Columbus Union Depot?
BTW, Mike Walker's SPV atlases are usually very good at showing yards and fo= rmer yards, but the Great Lakes East volume falls apart on the Columbus area= map, showing no:
T&OC Frankfort St.
PRR (Little Miami) Water Street
PRR Yard A
PRR Yard B
PRR Grogan Yard
PRR Pennor Yard
PRR Spruce St (coachyards west of CUDepot)
PRR St. Clair Avenue Shops
CCC&StL yard east of Miami Crossing (I don't even remember the name -- t= his was the first thing to be wiped out by freeway construction I imagine).<= BR>
All these yards are now abandoned, and most sites long since cleared for oth= er purposes.  Of course, if all the above were to be shown, it might re= quire a "downtown Columbus" inset map to handle the detail usefully.

"America has rolled by like an army of steam rollers. It's been built, destr= oyed, and then built again" -- James Earl Jones monolog in Field of Dream= s

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_24.50d4b154.2d7fe49e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:25:07 EST Subject: [PRR] Lines West towers In a message dated 3/9/04 1:14:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Lines West Tower Standards > From: "John Frantz" > Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:22:12 -0500 > > Gents, > > I've been on a tower kick lately. For the gentelmen that > model Pennsy Lines West. Was there a rough standard design > for a brick interlocking tower? > > TAOT > > Best Regards, > John The 1898 Lines West signaling standards shows only a frame tower design which steps up for larger and larger interlocking machines. This frame tower is NOT similar to Lines East designs of the period; instead, it is more like generic interlockings all over Chicago. I'd like correlate this wood-sheathed design to actual LW locations. I suspect, for example, that Mansfield (OH) was one of them before it acquired red insulbrick siding. But this design may also cover Scioto, Custer, Hanna, South Charleston, Greene (Xenia) and a number of others. This of course does nothing to document the 70 years of brick towers on Lines West. The one recognizable grouping, relatively late, was the "brick castle" group with flat roofs, including Alum Creek (Columbus), Piqua, RACE (Logansport), and Smithboro? IL. An earlier brick design (with 4-slope roof) is represented by CLARE in Cincinnati; according to resources uncovered while researching The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, CLARE replaced a wood tower wiped out in a 1921 derailment. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_154.2faa642d.2d7fe493_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/9/04 1:14:43 A= M Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:

Subject: Lines West Tower Stand= ards
From: "John Frantz" <johnf2384@suscom.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 23:22:12 -0500

Gents,

I've been on a tower kick lately. For the gentelmen that
model Pennsy Lines West. Was there a rough standard design
for a brick interlocking tower?

TAOT

Best Regards,
John


The 1898 Lines West signaling standards shows only a frame tower design whic= h steps up for larger and larger interlocking machines.  This frame tow= er is NOT similar to Lines East designs of the period; instead, it is more l= ike generic interlockings all over Chicago.

I'd like correlate this wood-sheathed design to actual LW locations.  I= suspect, for example, that Mansfield (OH) was one of them before it acquire= d red insulbrick siding.  But this design may also cover Scioto, Custer= , Hanna, South Charleston, Greene (Xenia) and a number of others.

This of course does nothing to document the 70 years of brick towers on Line= s West.  The one recognizable grouping, relatively late, was the "brick= castle" group with flat roofs, including Alum Creek (Columbus), Piqua, RACE= (Logansport), and Smithboro? IL.  An earlier brick design (with 4-slop= e roof) is represented by CLARE in Cincinnati; according to resources uncove= red while researching The Pennsylvania Railroad in Cincinnati, CLARE=20= replaced a wood tower wiped out in a 1921 derailment.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_154.2faa642d.2d7fe493_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] F & C address Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:43:39 -0500 Does anyone know of an accurate/up to date mailing address for Funero & = Camerlengo? I sent them a letter at their Honesdale, Pa address and the = letter was returned as no one resided at that address. =20 I looked at several web sites but all listed the address that I used = that resulted in the returned letter. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C40638.BACABAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know of an accurate/up to = date mailing=20 address for Funero & Camerlengo?  I sent them a letter at their = Honesdale, Pa address and the letter was returned as no one resided at = that=20 address. 
 
I looked at several web sites but all = listed the=20 address that I used that resulted in the = returned letter.
 
Any help would be = appreciated.
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C40638.BACABAC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] F & C address Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:43:39 -0500 Does anyone know of an accurate/up to date mailing address for Funero & = Camerlengo? I sent them a letter at their Honesdale, Pa address and the = letter was returned as no one resided at that address. =20 I looked at several web sites but all listed the address that I used = that resulted in the returned letter. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C40638.BACABAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know of an accurate/up to = date mailing=20 address for Funero & Camerlengo?  I sent them a letter at their = Honesdale, Pa address and the letter was returned as no one resided at = that=20 address. 
 
I looked at several web sites but all = listed the=20 address that I used that resulted in the = returned letter.
 
Any help would be = appreciated.
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C40638.BACABAC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:31:13 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Or are RBL's boxcars? In a message dated 3/9/04 10:38:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Refrigerator cars > From: "Al Buchan" > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:41:37 -0500 > > Re: Did any ever have PRR markings? > > The answers for the earlier periods have been covered. In the later > years there were cars that were technically reefers, carrying the AAR > Mechanical Designation of RBL. They were bunkerless refrigerator cars > that I always referred to as insulated boxcars. For example see pg 95 > PRR CG1. The cars were listed under the PRR in the ORER, as > Refrigerator, All Steel AAR RBL but w/o and PRR class numbers and were > in number series 91887-91911 and 92861-92880. > > Al > Unsurprisingly, those RBL's were built by Fruit Growers Express for PRR (and seemingly most other FGE owners). There were both 40 and 50 foot insulated boxcars of FGE design. The AAR Mech Code may be "RBL", but I've always considered the RBL (and similar XLI) cars to be "insulated boxcars" since they are only passively cooled. If RBL's are included as reefers, then we would have to include PRR classes X53, X53A, X54, and X54A. Of course, all of these are built circa 1960 or later. Challenge: I believe virtually all pix of these cars are in PRR's eighth standard paint scheme (SK2a) because of their built date. They must have lived a protected life, as I've never seen one repainted in SK2b or PK. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:31:13 EST Subject: [PRR] Or are RBL's boxcars? In a message dated 3/9/04 10:38:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: RE: [PRR] Refrigerator cars > From: "Al Buchan" > Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:41:37 -0500 > > Re: Did any ever have PRR markings? > > The answers for the earlier periods have been covered. In the later > years there were cars that were technically reefers, carrying the AAR > Mechanical Designation of RBL. They were bunkerless refrigerator cars > that I always referred to as insulated boxcars. For example see pg 95 > PRR CG1. The cars were listed under the PRR in the ORER, as > Refrigerator, All Steel AAR RBL but w/o and PRR class numbers and were > in number series 91887-91911 and 92861-92880. > > Al > Unsurprisingly, those RBL's were built by Fruit Growers Express for PRR (and seemingly most other FGE owners). There were both 40 and 50 foot insulated boxcars of FGE design. The AAR Mech Code may be "RBL", but I've always considered the RBL (and similar XLI) cars to be "insulated boxcars" since they are only passively cooled. If RBL's are included as reefers, then we would have to include PRR classes X53, X53A, X54, and X54A. Of course, all of these are built circa 1960 or later. Challenge: I believe virtually all pix of these cars are in PRR's eighth standard paint scheme (SK2a) because of their built date. They must have lived a protected life, as I've never seen one repainted in SK2b or PK. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_da.551cf7e.2d806491_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 3/9/04 10:38:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=

Subject: RE: [PRR] Refrigerator= cars
From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:41:37 -0500

Re: Did any ever have PRR markings?

The answers for the earlier periods have been covered. In the later
years there were cars that were technically reefers, carrying the AAR
Mechanical Designation of RBL. They were bunkerless refrigerator cars
that I always referred to as insulated boxcars. For example see pg 95
PRR CG1. The cars were listed under the PRR in the ORER, as
Refrigerator, All Steel AAR RBL but w/o and PRR class numbers and were
in number series 91887-91911 and 92861-92880.

Al


Unsurprisingly, those RBL's were built by Fruit Growers Express for PRR (and= seemingly most other FGE owners).  There were both 40 and 50 foot insu= lated boxcars of FGE design.

The AAR Mech Code may be "RBL", but I've always considered the RBL (and simi= lar XLI) cars to be "insulated boxcars" since they are only passively cooled= .  If RBL's are included as reefers, then we would have to include PRR=20= classes X53, X53A, X54, and X54A.  Of course, all of these are built ci= rca 1960 or later.  Challenge: I believe virtually all pix of these car= s are in PRR's eighth standard paint scheme (SK2a) because of their built da= te.  They must have lived a protected life, as I've never seen one repa= inted in SK2b or PK.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_da.551cf7e.2d806491_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:59:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: <012001c40635$79bd50e0$06f70041@dial.home.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I had always heard that one of the main reasons RRs preferred to operate their reefers through private owner subsidiaries had to do with the interchange rules. There were ICC or AAR regulations mandating the = return of empties. These rules did not work well for expensive equipment for narrowly defined cargo, such as reefers. If the cars were private = owner, then the interchange rules were different (or nonexistent. The same = theory hold for tank cars. regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Benjamin Frank Hom Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:20 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars ndbprr@att.net asked: Did any ever have PRR markings? It is curious that with the volume of = cars that wound up on the PRR that they had none. Anyone care to venture a = guess as to why? The short answer is that from a car maintenance and utilization = standpoint, it was much easier for railroads to band together and form consortiums = to manage refrigerator car fleets [Ex: Pacific Fruit Express (UP/SP)]. The Pennsy was a major player in Fruit Growers Express; there were reefers = with PRR reporting marks early in the 20th Century, but almost all cars were transferred to FGEX upon its start-up in 1922. A few Class RF reefers = in express service stayed in PRR reporting marks until 1928. A few railroad did manage their own fleets of freight reefers (ATSF = [SFRD], CN, and CP are the most prominent examples), but the majority of roads followed this business model. For a quick overview, check out this page = at Keystone Crossings: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/reefer.ws4d Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:31:14 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ah Ha! Yes! This is the reason stated by RR employees when I asked this question early in my RR career - 35 years. RR owned equipment could be placed for loading by another RR for any destination, with almost any product for that cartype. Private owner equipment could only be placed for loading on instructions of the owner. This insured that a load of hides was not loaded in a reefer, etc. rendering the car not usable for meat. Also, with RR owned cars the daily car rental (per diem) was a fixed price, until the middle 1960s when a car value rate structure was introduced. Private car ownership allowed the car owner to charge additional car rental (not part of the per diem rates) for their equipment. Garry Spear Andrew S. Miller wrote: > I had always heard that one of the main reasons RRs preferred to operate > their reefers through private owner subsidiaries had to do with the > interchange rules. There were ICC or AAR regulations mandating the return > of empties. These rules did not work well for expensive equipment for > narrowly defined cargo, such as reefers. If the cars were private owner, > then the interchange rules were different (or nonexistent. The same theory > hold for tank cars. > > regards, > Andy Miller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:09:32 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Oxford PA Layout plans From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <511531F7-72AD-11D8-90C3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning Y'all, I introduced the 14 yr old son of a friend to operations on Saturday at a friends layout (B&M, MEC, circa 1960, http://batherson.com/seamrrc/brwm.htm) and I noted how the industrial district in one corner could be a layout by itself. That led me to start pondering a prototype switching layout based on the PRR. Then I thought - Wait a minute - there's one in my current (grandiose) layout plan (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/ Homerr.html)...Oxford PA on the Octoraro Branch! If I did it right, it might even be able to fit into the ultimate layout some day, and if not, the structures would be recycled...and yes, the whole thing would be quite mobile (although no immediate plans to move are in the works). Oh yeah, I plan to write up the planning process for TKM . In the mean time, I could actually have a LAYOUT! Oxford is very, very interesting, in that most trains on the branch did not go through Oxford, but turned and returned to their point of origin at Oxford. Passenger trains consisted of Doodlebugs and the "mushroom train" (which was through), usually with a G5 and 2 PB70s, alternating with a B60b and a PBM70A. Freights were almost exclusively pulled by H class steamers, with an ND cabin until after WWII. A variety of military (troop trains) and other traffic was also seen. My PRRPro R50Bs were almost all destined for this branch anyway. Industries on the 1947 track chart include: at least 3 public delivery tracks Mackey Lumber Co. Oxford Cabinet Co. Sinclair Ref Co. Spencer Oil Abbotts Dairies Oxford Hay and Grain (2 tracks?) Passmore Supply Co. Shocks Oil Packing House In addition there was a water tank and turntable, since most trains turned at Oxford.... So a switching "layout" would consist of "staging" at both ends (possibly a small yard, perhaps a sector plate, or even a single track "cassette") with Oxford in the middle. At least 2 operators could be kept busy, as the "north" and "south" engineers, bringing trains out of staging, into Oxford, performing the work, turning the power, and heading back into staging. Now, I need to do some design work and get more information. I have the High Line on the "Mushroom Train". This has a track schematic and a few photos but what I need are photographs of the buildings along the tracks, and the geographic arrangements of those tracks. I found two more photos of motive power (one on Gary Mittner's site) I think that the Keystone, vol 16, no 2, 1983 "A Half-Century of Train Watching at Oxford, PA" by John F. Harris Sr. has a fair number of photos that might help, but I don't have that issue yet. If anyone has photographs of any of the businesses listed above, or any other information regarding Oxford I would be very interested in seeing them!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:09:32 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Oxford PA Layout plans From: Bruce Smith Message-Id: <511531F7-72AD-11D8-90C3-000A958DAD46@mail.auburn.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Good Morning Y'all, I introduced the 14 yr old son of a friend to operations on Saturday at a friends layout (B&M, MEC, circa 1960, http://batherson.com/seamrrc/brwm.htm) and I noted how the industrial district in one corner could be a layout by itself. That led me to start pondering a prototype switching layout based on the PRR. Then I thought - Wait a minute - there's one in my current (grandiose) layout plan (http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/PRR/ Homerr.html)...Oxford PA on the Octoraro Branch! If I did it right, it might even be able to fit into the ultimate layout some day, and if not, the structures would be recycled...and yes, the whole thing would be quite mobile (although no immediate plans to move are in the works). Oh yeah, I plan to write up the planning process for TKM . In the mean time, I could actually have a LAYOUT! Oxford is very, very interesting, in that most trains on the branch did not go through Oxford, but turned and returned to their point of origin at Oxford. Passenger trains consisted of Doodlebugs and the "mushroom train" (which was through), usually with a G5 and 2 PB70s, alternating with a B60b and a PBM70A. Freights were almost exclusively pulled by H class steamers, with an ND cabin until after WWII. A variety of military (troop trains) and other traffic was also seen. My PRRPro R50Bs were almost all destined for this branch anyway. Industries on the 1947 track chart include: at least 3 public delivery tracks Mackey Lumber Co. Oxford Cabinet Co. Sinclair Ref Co. Spencer Oil Abbotts Dairies Oxford Hay and Grain (2 tracks?) Passmore Supply Co. Shocks Oil Packing House In addition there was a water tank and turntable, since most trains turned at Oxford.... So a switching "layout" would consist of "staging" at both ends (possibly a small yard, perhaps a sector plate, or even a single track "cassette") with Oxford in the middle. At least 2 operators could be kept busy, as the "north" and "south" engineers, bringing trains out of staging, into Oxford, performing the work, turning the power, and heading back into staging. Now, I need to do some design work and get more information. I have the High Line on the "Mushroom Train". This has a track schematic and a few photos but what I need are photographs of the buildings along the tracks, and the geographic arrangements of those tracks. I found two more photos of motive power (one on Gary Mittner's site) I think that the Keystone, vol 16, no 2, 1983 "A Half-Century of Train Watching at Oxford, PA" by John F. Harris Sr. has a fair number of photos that might help, but I don't have that issue yet. If anyone has photographs of any of the businesses listed above, or any other information regarding Oxford I would be very interested in seeing them!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:12:08 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another issue of the Keystone has arrived, with its customary high quality. The only complaint is that there is yet more space wasted with information on the T1 locomotive, that useless footnote and blight on the motive power landscape. The Penn people's futile attempts to turn that beast into a passable locomotive are indeed fodder for the historical mill; but one can't help thinking, would it not have been so much easier for them just to buy copies of the Hudson and Niagara type engines? Peter Weiglin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:12:08 -0800 From: Peter Weiglin Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another issue of the Keystone has arrived, with its customary high quality. The only complaint is that there is yet more space wasted with information on the T1 locomotive, that useless footnote and blight on the motive power landscape. The Penn people's futile attempts to turn that beast into a passable locomotive are indeed fodder for the historical mill; but one can't help thinking, would it not have been so much easier for them just to buy copies of the Hudson and Niagara type engines? Peter Weiglin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] M1b's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 10:44 AM, THOMAS PEARCE wrote: > There were ten different M1b's that had recieved Passenger tender for > use in Passenger service on the Panhandle Divison. I remember hearing > this from somewhere, but I cannot remember where I got the info from. Funny you brought this up. I was going to post this today to PRR-talk, so I will now cross post. According to Stauffer (Pennsy Power I, p. 196) there were 30 M1's initially assigned to passenger service. (20) were plain M1 and (10) were M1a. The M1a's were #'s 6700-6709. I do not have the numbers for the plain M1's. Anyone? Stauffer goes on to state that the "last stand" of the M1's in passenger service was on the Harrisburg-Williamsport-Buffalo route, with 110P75 tenders. Specifically to handle the heavyweights on trains 574/575 (Buffalo Express/Dominion Express) and 580/581 (Northern Express/Southern Express). Does anyone know when these M's were finally replaced by diesels? I figure steam probably lasted until at least the E8's arrived and there was enough steam to go around, then these trains would have likely gotten E7's or PA's. So, who can ante up the latest record of an M1 on a passenger consist (non-excursion) on this line? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] M1b's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 10:44 AM, THOMAS PEARCE wrote: > There were ten different M1b's that had recieved Passenger tender for > use in Passenger service on the Panhandle Divison. I remember hearing > this from somewhere, but I cannot remember where I got the info from. Funny you brought this up. I was going to post this today to PRR-talk, so I will now cross post. According to Stauffer (Pennsy Power I, p. 196) there were 30 M1's initially assigned to passenger service. (20) were plain M1 and (10) were M1a. The M1a's were #'s 6700-6709. I do not have the numbers for the plain M1's. Anyone? Stauffer goes on to state that the "last stand" of the M1's in passenger service was on the Harrisburg-Williamsport-Buffalo route, with 110P75 tenders. Specifically to handle the heavyweights on trains 574/575 (Buffalo Express/Dominion Express) and 580/581 (Northern Express/Southern Express). Does anyone know when these M's were finally replaced by diesels? I figure steam probably lasted until at least the E8's arrived and there was enough steam to go around, then these trains would have likely gotten E7's or PA's. So, who can ante up the latest record of an M1 on a passenger consist (non-excursion) on this line? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:39:26 -0500 From: sjlash [mailto:sjlash@tcis.net] Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's From: Peter Weiglin Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:20:01 PM Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: sjlash PM
To: omnibus@datatamers.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject:
From: Date: Wednesday,
Subject: [PRR] From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:56:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Peter, Since you show on the masthead of "N-Scale", I can't help but wonder if you aren't trying to get all us PRR modelers in that scale to cancel our subscriptions????? ; To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's > Another issue of the Keystone has arrived, with its customary high quality. The > only complaint is that there is yet more space wasted with information on the T1 > locomotive, that useless footnote and blight on the motive power landscape. The > Penn people's futile attempts to turn that beast into a passable locomotive are > indeed fodder for the historical mill; but one can't help thinking, would it not > have been so much easier for them just to buy copies of the Hudson and Niagara > type engines? > > Peter Weiglin > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:22:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Susquehanna Division Freight Traffic Mid-1950's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: We're all familiar with the ore traffic through the Susquehanna Division up to Mt. Carmel... and I've got the "Arranged Freight Schedules" of symbol freights off the Susquehanna Division over the Rockville Bridge into Enola... But did any mineral traffic (coal) come down the Susquehanna Division into Enola or Harrisburg? Or did it all go north? Trying to establish if there was any traffic on this route other than the scheduled freight and passenger trains. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:27:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <98B02C68-72C0-11D8-AF93-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Deja vu, for some... Have the 1954 "Arranged Freight Schedules". Nearly all symbol freights moving through central Pennsylvania went through Enola.... very few went via the Harrisburg side of the river. Yet Harrisburg had a very sizable yard.... much more than was needed than for just sorting freight cars for local delivery. So what DID go through Harrisburg? Did eastbound coal cross the Rockville Bridge -- bypassing Enola -- then travel through Harrisburg to Columbia? This would make Harrisburg more of a layover yard. Westbound ore? By the way, Stauffer's one book reports that the Philadelphia ore pier opened in 1954 and trains passed over the Middle Division with two M1's at head and an I1 on the rear... for the entire trip... nice! We did have recollections (years ago) of TT traffic using the passenger main through Elizabethtown and Mt. Joy, which would put them through Harrisburg, but nothing as early as 1954's LCL traffic. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:38:22 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] M1a, not M1b Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Sorry, my mistake, the 6700-6709 were M1a's. Dan Cupper Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:39:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <7A98AC657D327C4180A836ED9FA027A734D0E8@fbpa1mx1.fbcs-inc.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Forget it, this guy is trying to cause controversy, and he apparently does not know the plans for Viagra's and Hudson's were found in a PRR design shop dumpster. Thanks Kenny -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Peter Weiglin Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:12 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Another issue of the Keystone has arrived, with its customary high quality. The only complaint is that there is yet more space wasted with information on the T1 locomotive, that useless footnote and blight on the motive power landscape. The Penn people's futile attempts to turn that beast into a passable locomotive are indeed fodder for the historical mill; but one can't help thinking, would it not have been so much easier for them just to buy copies of the Hudson and Niagara type engines? Peter Weiglin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:46:51 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I recall seeing pictures in books, (unciteable because i'm at school) that had Reading T1's sitting on the outbound tracks in Harrisburg yard destined for a transfer to Rutherford. Also would there have been enough reefer traffic for the Swift plant and other car traffic for Harrisburg Steel? IMHO I would guess that if Enola was the main through-point yard that they would transfer LCL blocks and cars destined for Harrisburg industries to Harrisburg Yard to sort for locals. Theres also the point of freight southbound on the Royalton Branch. What i'm saying is Harrisburg Yard would be used as a main departing point for locals east of Harrisburg on the Mainline. I'm only tossing out some specualtion of possiblities. Best Regards, John Jerry Britton wrote: Deja vu, for some... Have the 1954 "Arranged Freight Schedules". Nearly all symbol freights moving through central Pennsylvania went through Enola.... very few went via the Harrisburg side of the river. Yet Harrisburg had a very sizable yard.... much more than was needed than for just sorting freight cars for local delivery. So what DID go through Harrisburg? Did eastbound coal cross the Rockville Bridge -- bypassing Enola -- then travel through Harrisburg to Columbia? This would make Harrisburg more of a layover yard. Westbound ore? By the way, Stauffer's one book reports that the Philadelphia ore pier opened in 1954 and trains passed over the Middle Division with two M1's at head and an I1 on the rear... for the entire trip... nice! We did have recollections (years ago) of TT traffic using the passenger main through Elizabethtown and Mt. Joy, which would put them through Harrisburg, but nothing as early as 1954's LCL traffic. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:56:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 02:46 PM, John Frantz wrote: > I recall seeing pictures in books, (unciteable because i'm at school) > that had Reading T1's sitting on the outbound tracks in Harrisburg > yard destined for a transfer to Rutherford. Also would there have been > enough reefer traffic for the Swift plant and other car traffic for > Harrisburg Steel? You are totally missing the point, John. We are looking for traffic other than local classification. There were four trips (or more) between Enola and Rutherford daily, via Harrisburg. There are photos of Pennsy L1's, Reading Trainmasters, Pennsy GP9's, and Reading T1's in this service. As for local traffic, there were dozens of industries in Harrisburg. The Swift plant, Harrisburg Steel, and the steel plant in Steelton would have generated a lot of traffic. But that still would not be enough to require the sizes of yards that Harrisburg had. > IMHO I would guess that if Enola was the main through-point yard that > they would transfer LCL blocks and cars destined for Harrisburg > industries to Harrisburg Yard to sort for locals. Theres also the > point of freight southbound on the Royalton Branch. What i'm saying is > Harrisburg Yard would be used as a main departing point for locals > east of Harrisburg on the Mainline. I'm only tossing out some > specualtion of possiblities. > >> Jerry Britton wrote: >> Deja vu, for some... >> >> Have the 1954 "Arranged Freight Schedules". Nearly all symbol >> freights moving through central Pennsylvania went through Enola.... >> very few went via the Harrisburg side of the river. Yet Harrisburg >> had a very sizable yard.... much more than was needed than for just >> sorting freight cars for local delivery. So what DID go through >> Harrisburg? >> >> Did eastbound coal cross the Rockville Bridge -- bypassing Enola -- >> then travel through Harrisburg to Columbia? This would make >> Harrisburg more of a layover yard. >> >> Westbound ore? By the way, Stauffer's one book reports that the >> Philadelphia ore pier opened in 1954 and trains passed over the >> Middle Division with two M1's at head and an I1 on the rear... for >> the entire trip... nice! >> >> We did have recollections (years ago) of TT traffic using the >> passenger main through Elizabethtown and Mt. Joy, which would put >> them through Harrisburg, but nothing as early as 1954's LCL traffic. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:00:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out008.verizon.net from [151.199.98.179] at Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:00:32 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > Forget it, this guy is trying to cause controversy, and he apparently > does not know > the plans for Viagra's and Hudson's were found in a PRR design shop > dumpster. that must be the locomotive with the extra strong side rods? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:05:40 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vondruska Subject: [PRR] a C&O fan's interest in the PRR From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:12:43 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:34:14 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Perhaps running him oput of town on a rail (a cherry red hot one right from the rolling mill) would be more appropriate. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:40:25 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 3/10/2004 1:27:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > sizable yard.... much more than was needed than for just sorting > freight cars for local delivery. So what DID go through > Harrisburg? Jerry, I always thought that was primarily for serving Steelton's mills and the meat packing plants. That would mean all incoming raw products -- coal, coke, scrap iron/steel, limestone, magnesium, zinc, molybdium (sp?), and all the other additives used in steel making. Outgoing would be steel products and by-products. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] M1b's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:44:17 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry wrote --in part-- > > Stauffer goes on to state that the "last stand" of the M1's in > passenger service was on the Harrisburg-Williamsport-Buffalo route, > with 110P75 tenders. Specifically to handle the heavyweights on trains > 574/575 (Buffalo Express/Dominion Express) and 580/581 (Northern > Express/Southern Express). Does anyone know when these M's were finally > replaced by diesels? I figure steam probably lasted until at least the > E8's arrived and there was enough steam to go around, then these trains > would have likely gotten E7's or PA's. So, who can ante up the latest > record of an M1 on a passenger consist (non-excursion) on this line? > Great question which I have often wondered about. Related to this question is how long did these M1's keep a 110P75 or 130P75 tender. A couple of candidates from available photos: 6810: --Keystone Sep 79, p. 15. The caption says it is a troop train in 1946, but I have always been suspicious of its accuracy. 1946 is pretty early for those "bullseye" markers. --Keystone Spring 88, p. 29. With 130P75 in Sep. 56 so it was available for pax service this late. 6845: --Keystone June 79, p. 4. On train 570 near Sunbury, summer 1954. Another suspicious caption date: there are milk tank cars in the train--in 1954?? 6861: --Keystone Spring 87, p. 32. On train 570 in Sunbury April 1951. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:59:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] M1b's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 03:44 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > 6810: > --Keystone Spring 88, p. 29. With 130P75 in Sep. 56 so it was > available for > pax service this late. Wow, that could be a holy grail! > > 6845: > --Keystone June 79, p. 4. On train 570 near Sunbury, summer 1954. > Another > suspicious caption date: there are milk tank cars in the train--in > 1954?? Possibly. I know of milk cars being picked up at Huntingdon in 1952 and heading east to Harrisburg. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] M1b's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:56:16 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've heard stories from a first hand source that grew up in Huntington about an L1 putting a local Milk reefer on the end of The Juniata and the train would take it to Philadelphia and the reffer would return the nex t day or two on the same train westbound. He actually built an N scale module depicting the scene. -John Jerry Britton wrote: On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 03:44 PM, STEPHEN HOXIE wrote: > 6810: > --Keystone Spring 88, p. 29. With 130P75 in Sep. 56 so it >was > available for > pax service this late. Wow, that could be a holy grail! > > 6845: > --Keystone June 79, p. 4. On train 570 near Sunbury, >summer 1954. > Another > suspicious caption date: there are milk tank cars in the >train--in > 1954?? Possibly. I know of milk cars being picked up at Huntingdon in 1952 and heading east to Harrisburg. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:04:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gang, I wonder how many spamblockers trashed the two replies where 4-8-4's were confuised with little blue pills? I wondered at first why two messages with the subject " (PRR)Keystone and T1's" were in my trash can! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and T1's > Perhaps running him oput of town on a rail (a cherry red hot one right from the rolling mill) would be more appropriate. > > Rich Orr > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: frbob@clearnet.net (Bob McKay) Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:30:22 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry and list, Is it possible we look in the wrong direction for traffic through Harrisburg. Without certainty to time periods, large amounts of MTs were routed away from the heavy classification of Enola, mostly just rounding out westbound tonnage as required, with per diem the only consideration other than general destination. Worth looking into. These were on the opposite end of symbol freights! Bob McKay Along the Susquehanna in N scale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Freight Traffic Mid-1950's > Deja vu, for some... > > Have the 1954 "Arranged Freight Schedules". Nearly all symbol freights > moving through central Pennsylvania went through Enola.... very few > went via the Harrisburg side of the river. Yet Harrisburg had a very > sizable yard.... much more than was needed than for just sorting > freight cars for local delivery. So what DID go through Harrisburg? > > Did eastbound coal cross the Rockville Bridge -- bypassing Enola -- > then travel through Harrisburg to Columbia? This would make Harrisburg > more of a layover yard. > > Westbound ore? By the way, Stauffer's one book reports that the > Philadelphia ore pier opened in 1954 and trains passed over the Middle > Division with two M1's at head and an I1 on the rear... for the entire > trip... nice! > > We did have recollections (years ago) of TT traffic using the passenger > main through Elizabethtown and Mt. Joy, which would put them through > Harrisburg, but nothing as early as 1954's LCL traffic. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:10:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Oxford PA Layout plans From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:45:38 -0500 Re: Trashing a T1 and praising a Hudson and Niagara in the same post! Forget tar and feathering: Banishment!!! Or perhaps castration. Al ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C406E9.0744EA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Re: = Trashing a T1 and praising a Hudson and = Niagara in the=20 same post!  Forget tar and feathering:=20 Banishment!!!
 
Or perhaps castration.=20 <G>
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C406E9.0744EA00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:59:23 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Oxford PA Layout plans Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:46:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Milk cars on PRR in the 1950's Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:31:40 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Refrigerator cars Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben Hom writes: > BTW, "outside braced" is another one of those modeler's terms which simply wasn't used in industry publications. The "bracing" of an "outside braced" car do not structurally brace the sides. They actually serve as a truss which carries the weight of the car and its load. The proper industry term is "single sheathed," which refers to the fact that the wooden sheathing of the car serves as both exterior sheathing and the car lining. > Ben Hom Another interesting term used by modelers/historians is the term "HAT BRACE". The steel industry actually calls these critters... Round Edged Flanged Channels... or "REFC". When buying such critters you'll probably find the steel distributor hang the phone up laughing at you if you ask for "HAT BRACING"... ... under the column of soooz ya noe... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:45:41 GMT Subject: [PRR] Milk Run From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:42:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Harrisburg yard From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <3195026BBF3C1140B196176D0EFBF97302A0E068@e2k1.Fullerton.EDU> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Protecting the privacy of those who commented off-list... I have received numerous responses about traffic through Harrisburg, in addition to the obvious local classifications and traffic: > As far as I can tell, in '56 the yard was used for mineral > traffic. Eastbound > coal and westbound ore did use Harrisburg yard, with P5a's and FA/FB > units running east of Harrisburg. Motive power crossed the CV bridge > with their cabin car. I think one of the Carleton books had > some black and white photos of six hopper trains sitting side by side > with an M1a and an RS-11 running next to them. Also in '56, the TT's > ran > thru Harrisburg. I haven't scoured the '56 ETT to determine what > other freight trains came thru the 'burg but my plan is to focus on the > ore/coal movements. It varied with the season but in March of '56 > they had from 1 to 4 daily westbound ore movements. I've gotten other reports that both eastbound main line coal AND eastbound coal off the Buffalo line went through Harrisburg, to keep the trains not requiring classification out of Enola. At Harrisburg there were indeed long relay tracks, and loco swaps could take place. Note that steam did, however, run on some trains even under wire. The above notes Alco's and P5a's east of Harrisburg. Stauffer notes westbound ore with two M1's at head and an I1 at rear on ore trains for the whole trip over the Middle Division in 1954. Would they put the cabin behind the I1? In later years GP9's are seen on this service...sometimes with five units at head. As for the TT's... In '54 the TOFC traffic was carried on LCL trains. Arranged Freight Schedules show times for these trains at both DAY and BANKS, so the LCL's went through Enola. At some point a TOFC terminal was added at Harrisburg. Also, the TT trains started in March 1955. Perhaps at this time they began using the Harrisburg routing. This has all been very helpful for my modeling and I thank all who responded. I am modeling 1954 and have parts of the Pittsburgh and Middle divisions modeled, which will depict eastbound coal. However, I am not modeling Enola (just hidden staging) but I am modeling Harrisburg. This new info about mineral routing will enable me to extend the visible run of coal trains. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:42:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Harrisburg yard From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <3195026BBF3C1140B196176D0EFBF97302A0E068@e2k1.Fullerton.EDU> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Protecting the privacy of those who commented off-list... I have received numerous responses about traffic through Harrisburg, in addition to the obvious local classifications and traffic: > As far as I can tell, in '56 the yard was used for mineral > traffic. Eastbound > coal and westbound ore did use Harrisburg yard, with P5a's and FA/FB > units running east of Harrisburg. Motive power crossed the CV bridge > with their cabin car. I think one of the Carleton books had > some black and white photos of six hopper trains sitting side by side > with an M1a and an RS-11 running next to them. Also in '56, the TT's > ran > thru Harrisburg. I haven't scoured the '56 ETT to determine what > other freight trains came thru the 'burg but my plan is to focus on the > ore/coal movements. It varied with the season but in March of '56 > they had from 1 to 4 daily westbound ore movements. I've gotten other reports that both eastbound main line coal AND eastbound coal off the Buffalo line went through Harrisburg, to keep the trains not requiring classification out of Enola. At Harrisburg there were indeed long relay tracks, and loco swaps could take place. Note that steam did, however, run on some trains even under wire. The above notes Alco's and P5a's east of Harrisburg. Stauffer notes westbound ore with two M1's at head and an I1 at rear on ore trains for the whole trip over the Middle Division in 1954. Would they put the cabin behind the I1? In later years GP9's are seen on this service...sometimes with five units at head. As for the TT's... In '54 the TOFC traffic was carried on LCL trains. Arranged Freight Schedules show times for these trains at both DAY and BANKS, so the LCL's went through Enola. At some point a TOFC terminal was added at Harrisburg. Also, the TT trains started in March 1955. Perhaps at this time they began using the Harrisburg routing. This has all been very helpful for my modeling and I thank all who responded. I am modeling 1954 and have parts of the Pittsburgh and Middle divisions modeled, which will depict eastbound coal. However, I am not modeling Enola (just hidden staging) but I am modeling Harrisburg. This new info about mineral routing will enable me to extend the visible run of coal trains. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] RE: coal traffic via Ft. Wayne? Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:56:20 +0000 >From: Frederick Ripley >Subject: coal traffic via Ft. Wayne? >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:46:08 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:40:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Susquehanna Division Freight Traffic Mid-1950's From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, March 11, 2004, at 09:09 AM, Bill Volkmer wrote: > During the mid-1960s there was a mostly=A0coal train called AN-16 that=20= > ran (daily) Altoona to Northumberland. The coal was relayed from=20 > Northumberland to Wilkes Barre on S-97 and the rest of the freight=20 > was=A0 put out on locals on the various branch lines to Selinsgrove,=20= > Berwick, Lykens Vy etc.=A0 Don't know if this run existed in=A0 1954.=A0= I=20 > wasn't around at that time. > Bill, wouldn't that have gone across the Bald Eagle Branch? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Re: Milk Cars on the Buffalo Line Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:43:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Indeed Sheffield Farms had dairy farms in North Central PA. In particular they had farms on the Bald Eagle Branch which generated milk traffic. Milk cars for the New York City area came off the branch at Lock Haven, went west to Renovo for icing, then headed east for the NYC area on RJ-4, a train of milk reefers pulled by either a G-5 or a K-4. When behind a K-4 it often made better time than the Broadway once it hit the mainline as it didn't have to make the station stops. The G-5's didn't have the speed, however. The first of the two articles in the Keystone on Renovo (early 80's?) shows a picture of a train departing Renovo with a milk tank on the rear. There is an earlier Keystone with a picture of RJ-4 on the cover as I remember. Clarence Weaver's (Penn Valley) "Susquehanna Division" video shows a few of these milk trains off the branches heading for Harrisburg. They may have some color shots of some of these milk reefers, although as I remember they were quite dirty. My books on milk reefers are black and white, unfortunately. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! 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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Milk Cars on the Buffalo Line From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Milk Cans Hello List, Can anyone venture an educated guess as to what was the last year that milk cans were transported on the PRR? Would someone define "milk cars" for me please? Were they reefers, insulated boxes, or plain boxes that carried milk in containers such as milk cans; were they tank cars specifically used for hauling milk? Did PRR have cars specifically designated for transporting milk or were they generic reefers, insulated boxes, plain boxes? Yes, Jerry, you're right, I'm trying to determine how to supply the creamery and what detail stuff I'll need. Thanks. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line 45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA 17402 cprrboss@aol.com 717-848-3640 --part1_165.2c2ca42e.2d820553_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hello List,

Can anyone venture an educated guess as to what was the last year that m= ilk cans were transported on the PRR?  Would someo= ne define "milk cars" for me please?  Were they reefers, insulated boxe= s, or plain boxes that carried milk in containers such as milk cans; were th= ey tank cars specifically used for hauling milk?  Did PRR have cars spe= cifically designated for transporting milk or were they generic reefers, ins= ulated boxes, plain boxes?

Yes, Jerry, you're right, I'm trying to determine how to supply the crea= mery and what detail stuff I'll need.

Thanks.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line
45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA  17402
cprrboss@aol.com     717-848-3640
--part1_165.2c2ca42e.2d820553_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:09:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Milk Cans Hello List, Can anyone venture an educated guess as to what was the last year that milk cans were transported on the PRR? Would someone define "milk cars" for me please? Were they reefers, insulated boxes, or plain boxes that carried milk in containers such as milk cans; were they tank cars specifically used for hauling milk? Did PRR have cars specifically designated for transporting milk or were they generic reefers, insulated boxes, plain boxes? Yes, Jerry, you're right, I'm trying to determine how to supply the creamery and what detail stuff I'll need. Thanks. BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale) A Penn Family Line 45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA 17402 cprrboss@aol.com 717-848-3640 --part1_165.2c2ca42e.2d820553_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hello List,

Can anyone venture an educated guess as to what was the last year that m= ilk cans were transported on the PRR?  Would someo= ne define "milk cars" for me please?  Were they reefers, insulated boxe= s, or plain boxes that carried milk in containers such as milk cans; were th= ey tank cars specifically used for hauling milk?  Did PRR have cars spe= cifically designated for transporting milk or were they generic reefers, ins= ulated boxes, plain boxes?

Yes, Jerry, you're right, I'm trying to determine how to supply the crea= mery and what detail stuff I'll need.

Thanks.

BOB MARTIN, President & Superintendent
Central Pennsylvania Railroad (CPRR) (HO Scale<= /FONT>= )
A Penn Family Line
45 W. Locust Lane, York, PA  17402
cprrboss@aol.com     717-848-3640
--part1_165.2c2ca42e.2d820553_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Altoona Festivities Announcement... From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I teased you a few weeks ago... Here goes... March 11, 2004 150th Anniversary Of "Horseshoe Curve" Features Major Fourth Of July Tribute Norfolk Southern and OSRAM SYLVANIA Engineer Lighting Extravaganza; This Year's Event Will Trump the 1954 "SYLVANIA Big Shot" ALTOONA, PA - With the commemoration of Horseshoe Curve's 150th anniversary this year, the Railroaders Heritage Corporation today announced that it will "pull out all the stops" with a major evening spectacular on July 4th. This extraordinary event will be reminiscent of the famous 1954 "SYLVANIA Big Shot," which featured the simultaneous deployment of more than 6,500 SYLVANIA Blue Dot flashbulbs to light Horseshoe Curve. This time, OSRAM SYLVANIA and Norfolk Southern will provide technology, equipment and sizzle for the celebration of this major transportation and engineering milestone in American history. "We are excited to once again help bring notice to such an important moment in American history," said Scott Cessna, executive director of the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona. "In 1854, an enterprising young civil engineer named J. Edgar Thomson opened the first railway to scale the mighty Allegheny Mountains in Central Pennsylvania. To avoid a sharp incline, which would be impossible for heavy steam trains to manage, Thomson routed the right-of-way in a horseshoe shape, so the rise would be gradual. The feat was considered a major engineering masterpiece at the time and was pivotal to opening commerce across the continental U.S." The American Society of Civil Engineers recently recognized Horseshoe Curve as a National Historic Civil Engineering Landmark during a ceremony in Altoona. "Horseshoe Curve is a vital component of Norfolk Southern's 22-state freight rail network," said David R. Goode, Norfolk Southern's chairman, president and chief executive officer. "The 150th year of operation of this American industrial and engineering landmark, its role in the westward expansion of the U.S. and its continuing importance to the national economy are certainly deserving of celebration." Today, an average of 60 Norfolk Southern freight trains and four Amtrak passenger trains operate over Horseshoe Curve daily. This volume translates into more than 100 million gross tons of freight annually. Commodities coming through Horseshoe Curve include mail, consumer goods, coal, finished automobiles, construction material and agricultural products. SYLVANIA technology continues to focus public awareness on the remarkable feat of engineering that Horseshoe Curve represents. In 1954, SYLVANIA and the Pennsylvania Railroad captured the imagination of children and adults alike with the illumination of Horseshoe Curve, which was the sixth in a series of 18 photographic achievements known as Big Shots. All 18 Big Shots were illuminated using SYLVANIA flashbulb technology. Photographs of the 1954 event can be found at www.railroadcity.com/hsc1954. "We recognize the historical significance of the anniversary of the construction of Horseshoe Curve and are pleased to support the recreation of the spectacle of the first lighting. As we did in the past, we will be using the most innovative products available on the market today," said Charlie Jerabek, president and CEO of OSRAM SYLVANIA. "Many of the lighting products available through OSRAM SYLVANIA today were developed within the last five years." In order to provide the safest and most comfortable atmosphere for the celebration, the event will be ticketed. Entertainment will be provided the entire day both at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona and Horseshoe Curve, culminating with the lighting of Horseshoe Curve and a display from Zambelli Fireworks Internationale - the "First Family of Fireworks." Ticket information is available by contacting the Railroaders Memorial Museum at 1-888-4ALTOONA. About Railroaders Heritage Corporation Railroaders Heritage Corporation is a not-for-profit organization established in 1972 with offices in Altoona, PA. The Corporation owns and operates two significant historic sites in the Altoona area - the Horseshoe Curve National Historic Landmark and the Railroaders Memorial Museum. It is the mission of the Railroaders Heritage Corporation to reveal, interpret, commemorate and celebrate the significant contributions of railroaders and their families to American life, past and present. Please visit us at www.railroadcity.com. About Norfolk Southern Corporation Norfolk Southern Corporation is one of the nation's premier transportation companies. Its Norfolk Southern Railway subsidiary operates 21,500 route miles in 22 states, the District of Columbia and Ontario, serving every major container port in the eastern United States and providing superior connections to western rail carriers. NS operates the most extensive intermodal network in the East and is the nation's largest rail carrier of automotive parts and finished vehicles. For further information, please visit our Web site at www.nscorp.com. About OSRAM SYLVANIA Headquartered in Danvers, Mass., OSRAM SYLVANIA is the North American lighting operation of OSRAM GmbH. Together we are the second-largest lighting and materials enterprise in the world, serving customers in more than 140 countries. We manufacture and market a wide range of lighting products, including automotive, electronic and magnetic ballasts, and precision materials and components for industrial and commercial users, original equipment manufacturers and consumers, sold primarily under the SYLVANIA brand name, but also under the OSRAM brand. OSRAM SYLVANIA also offers lighting systems installation and maintenance services. For further information, please refer to our Web site at www.sylvania.com. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:02:31 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Milk Cars From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Two examples of the H&BTM shuffling Suplee milk cars (reefer type, not tanks) near Bedford in 1951... http://www.trainweb.org/everett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford- 19510000001.jpg http://www.trainweb.org/everett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford- 19510000002.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cans From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:20:25 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars In a message dated 3/11/2004 2:14:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > http://www.trainweb.org/everett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford- > 19510000001.jpg > > http://www.trainweb.org/everett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford- > 19510000002.jpg > A space appears to have slide into each of the URLs, between the "bedford-" and the number "1951...". Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_1c1.16323408.2d8215f9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message=20= dated 3/11/2004 2:14:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


http://www.trainweb.org/eve= rett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford-=20
19510000001.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/everett/library/hbtm/photos/hbtm37-bedford-=20
19510000002.jpg


A space appears to have slide into each of the URLs,
between the "bedford-" and the number "1951...".

Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA --part1_1c1.16323408.2d8215f9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:52:18 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cans Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 3/11/2004 2:13:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > In the early 1930's in PA, milk production > and marketing became subject to something called the Milk Control > Committee, which a couple years later became the Milk Marketing > Control Board. > > It's advent also seems to have affected, perhaps > eliminated, the > operation of out-of-state dairy companies in PA. Until 1972 when the state Department of Agriculture took over the milk inspection program, Allegheny County Health Department staff were traveling to dairy farms as far away as Wisconsin to inspect the raw milk handling, sanitation conditions and the health of the herd. This milk was being brought into the County by truck and train. The primary delivery points being the Borden and Sealtest ice cream plants (both now long gone). Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:06:45 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cans From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Milk cars on PRR in the 1950's Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:01:54 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm surprised you Easterners are leaving out the North American Car Company flat cars with removable Supplee or Borden's tanks. BTW, documentation says they are black (the flats, not the tanks). My planned milk train will include an R50b, B60, Borden's General American Pfaudler 50+foot steel round bottom car which included two internal tanks (brass car---the F&C resin car is seemingly made of Kevlar which resists all drills), a Borden's butterdish milk tanker, the North American car, and a PB70. The GPEX cars, at least for Hood's and Borden's (and I think Bowman's out of Chicago) were Pullman green with gold leaf lettering. The Borden's butterdish cars were in several schemes, white with black lettering, silver with black lettering, red with ? lettering (too lazy to look it up). Dunno about Supplee or Sheffield Farms cars, being a flatlander from the midwest. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:25:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR symbol AC-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents..... I found some info about PRR freight AC-1. The train operated between Harsimus Cove and Chicago from the mid 60s to the merger. I have a wheel report for the train and it is a "CB&Q Classification" Most of the cars in this train are bound for the west coast. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:25:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR symbol AC-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents..... I found some info about PRR freight AC-1. The train operated between Harsimus Cove and Chicago from the mid 60s to the merger. I have a wheel report for the train and it is a "CB&Q Classification" Most of the cars in this train are bound for the west coast. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] M1b & N8 question Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:45:24 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I will ask my N8 question first. Did the N8 get the yellow side handrails and step edges? I went to the PRR Museum in Strasburg last week for the first time in about 4-5 years. It was the first time I have been there since getting my digital camera. In short the digital camera made my detail-hunting day great. I answered my first "where does that pipe go" question. But it made me wonder about a few more. Does anyone have a good pipe route photo of this area on the M1 before it was dismantled? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/M1_pipe.jpg I need to know how and where the pipe goes after it leaves the front air tank. I imagine it finds its way back to the compressors. I shot 325 photos, mostly detail shots of the X29, Gs gon, L1, M1b loco and tender, K4, X54, Rail Whale, and N5c. I got some "purty" shots of the GP30, GP9 and E7 as well. It is 827 MB of photos. I will give a copy of these photos which obviously is more then one CD to the first person who can help me route that air tank pipe. BTW, you will be able to make a razor sharp 8 x 10 of every photo I took. If you like draft gear photos you will not be disappointed here! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:06:21 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: omnibus@datatamers.com writes: > The Penn people's futile attempts to turn that beast into a passable locomotive are indeed fodder for the historical mill; but one can't help thinking, would it not have been so much easier for them just to buy copies of the Hudson and Niagara type engines? > > Peter Weiglin Peter, Peter, Peter.... Didn't you mother teach you better...? Never mention those two competitors in mixed company.... You must not grasp what we all seem to see in this "beast"... Untamed power and misunderstood technology in an era that technology was an infant... As you put it... "The Penn people" were only overshadowed and over burdened by the Volkswagens of the industry... the EMD's "BUG" the F7 and the "Beetle" the E7... Slipping at speed, a feat that the EMD "Beetle" could never have achieved... AAAHHHH! Those must have been the days! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:12:46 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Osgood-Bradley American Flyer Coach formerly in Sunnyside From: "Jerry M. LaBoda" Subject: [N-scaleVarnish] Re: Osgood-Bradley American Flyer Coaches From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:26:54 EST Subject: [PRR] re: Milk cars I'm surprised you Easterners are leaving out the North American Car Company flat cars with removable Supplee or Borden's tanks. BTW, documentation says they are black (the flats, not the tanks). My planned milk train will include an R50b, B60, Borden's General American Pfaudler 50+foot steel round bottom car which included two internal tanks (brass car---the F&C resin car is seemingly made of Kevlar which resists all drills), a Borden's butterdish milk tanker, the North American car, and a PB70. The GPEX cars, at least for Hood's and Borden's (and I think Bowman's out of Chicago) were Pullman green with gold leaf lettering. The Borden's butterdish cars were in several schemes, white with black lettering, silver with black lettering, red with ? lettering (too lazy to look it up). Dunno about Supplee or Sheffield Farms cars, being a flatlander from the midwest. Bob Zoeller Bob, Have you found any photos of milk cars in PRR trains? I know it probably happened but I don't recall ever seeing any in yard shots or freight trains. Todd Horton --part1_142.241e855e.2d8287fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I'm sur= prised you Easterners are leaving out the North American Car Company
flat cars with removable Supplee or Borden's tanks.  BTW, documentation= says
they are black (the flats, not the tanks).  My planned milk train will<= BR> include an R50b, B60, Borden's General American Pfaudler 50+foot steel round=
bottom car which included two internal tanks (brass car---the F&C resin=20= car
is seemingly made of Kevlar which resists all drills), a Borden's butterdish=
milk tanker, the North American car, and a PB70.

The GPEX cars, at least for Hood's and Borden's (and I think Bowman's out of=
Chicago) were Pullman green  with gold leaf lettering. The Borden's
butterdish cars were in several schemes, white with black lettering, silver<= BR> with black lettering, red with ? lettering (too lazy to look it up). Dunno about Supplee or Sheffield Farms cars, being a flatlander from the midwest.<= BR>
Bob Zoeller


Bob, Have you found any photos of milk cars in PRR trains? I know it probabl= y happened but I don't recall ever seeing any in yard shots or freight train= s. Todd Horton --part1_142.241e855e.2d8287fe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:26:54 EST Subject: [PRR] re: Milk cars I'm surprised you Easterners are leaving out the North American Car Company flat cars with removable Supplee or Borden's tanks. BTW, documentation says they are black (the flats, not the tanks). My planned milk train will include an R50b, B60, Borden's General American Pfaudler 50+foot steel round bottom car which included two internal tanks (brass car---the F&C resin car is seemingly made of Kevlar which resists all drills), a Borden's butterdish milk tanker, the North American car, and a PB70. The GPEX cars, at least for Hood's and Borden's (and I think Bowman's out of Chicago) were Pullman green with gold leaf lettering. The Borden's butterdish cars were in several schemes, white with black lettering, silver with black lettering, red with ? lettering (too lazy to look it up). Dunno about Supplee or Sheffield Farms cars, being a flatlander from the midwest. Bob Zoeller Bob, Have you found any photos of milk cars in PRR trains? I know it probably happened but I don't recall ever seeing any in yard shots or freight trains. Todd Horton --part1_142.241e855e.2d8287fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" I'm sur= prised you Easterners are leaving out the North American Car Company
flat cars with removable Supplee or Borden's tanks.  BTW, documentation= says
they are black (the flats, not the tanks).  My planned milk train will<= BR> include an R50b, B60, Borden's General American Pfaudler 50+foot steel round=
bottom car which included two internal tanks (brass car---the F&C resin=20= car
is seemingly made of Kevlar which resists all drills), a Borden's butterdish=
milk tanker, the North American car, and a PB70.

The GPEX cars, at least for Hood's and Borden's (and I think Bowman's out of=
Chicago) were Pullman green  with gold leaf lettering. The Borden's
butterdish cars were in several schemes, white with black lettering, silver<= BR> with black lettering, red with ? lettering (too lazy to look it up). Dunno about Supplee or Sheffield Farms cars, being a flatlander from the midwest.<= BR>
Bob Zoeller


Bob, Have you found any photos of milk cars in PRR trains? I know it probabl= y happened but I don't recall ever seeing any in yard shots or freight train= s. Todd Horton --part1_142.241e855e.2d8287fe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:45:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] M1b & N8 question Hi All, I will ask my N8 question first. Did the N8 get the yellow side handrails and step edges? I went to the PRR Museum in Strasburg last week for the first time in about 4-5 years. It was the first time I have been there since getting my digital camera. In short the digital camera made my detail-hunting day great. I answered my first "where does that pipe go" question. But it made me wonder about a few more. Does anyone have a good pipe route photo of this area on the M1 before it was dismantled? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/M1_pipe.jpg I need to know how and where the pipe goes after it leaves the front air tank. I imagine it finds its way back to the compressors. I shot 325 photos, mostly detail shots of the X29, Gs gon, L1, M1b loco and tender, K4, X54, Rail Whale, and N5c. I got some "purty" shots of the GP30, GP9 and E7 as well. It is 827 MB of photos. I will give a copy of these photos which obviously is more then one CD to the first person who can help me route that air tank pipe. BTW, you will be able to make a razor sharp 8 x 10 of every photo I took. If you like draft gear photos you will not be disappointed here! Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] Kadee H34a Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:33:55 -0600 New from Kadee. http://www.kadee.com/ca/ps2/8311l.htm Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_04C9_01C407B8.EFE3D800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
New from Kadee.
 
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_04C9_01C407B8.EFE3D800-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: [PRR] Kadee H34a Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:33:55 -0600 New from Kadee. http://www.kadee.com/ca/ps2/8311l.htm Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_04C9_01C407B8.EFE3D800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
New from Kadee.
 
http://www.kadee.com/ca/ps= 2/8311l.htm
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_04C9_01C407B8.EFE3D800-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: STEVEGG1@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:55:35 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR steam number plates Greetings to everyone, Can someone tell me why some PRR steam will have a round number plate on smokebox and others will have a keystone? Thank you!!!! Steve Panopoulos --part1_79.242da754.2d82aad7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Greetings to everyone,
Can someone tell me why some PRR steam will have a round number plate on smo= kebox and others will have a keystone?
Thank you!!!!
Steve Panopoulos --part1_79.242da754.2d82aad7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:29:55 GMT Subject: [PRR] Milk Cars From: Dominic Mazoch From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:31:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR symbol AC-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Fred R.,Ted and Lists I think the "CB&Q Classification" means that the entire train will be handed over to the Burlington in Chicago. According to the wheel report, only two cars of the consist is destine for Chicago. The rest are headed for points on the CB&Q. (Seattle,Spokane,Tacoma) But this is before the train reaches Enola. This wheel report is for Harsimus Cove and Waverly Yards. There is a block of cars for the UP(North Platte). Looks like AC-1 only makes pick ups at Enola and Conway. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:42:56 GMT Subject: [PRR] Milk Tanks on Flatcar From: Dominic Mazoch From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:14:27 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Tanks on Flatcar Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:17:59 +0000 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:40:35 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR symbol AC-1 From: Frederick Ripley Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:15:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Passenger Station Storage Tracks From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Interesting tidbit on page 65 of the Philadelphia Division ETT from 9/26/54... 1156-A2. Harrisburg Passenger Station -- Tracks 3, 6, 7, 24, 1-E, all tracks in Mulberry Street, State Street and Cumberland Valley Yards and all single end tracks are storage tracks. What caught my eye is tracks "3, 6, and 7", which are through tracks through the station that are dedicated for storage. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR steam number plates Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:10:04 -0500 Steve, Originally, all PRR locomotive had round number plates. Starting in = 1926, the PRR put keystone number plates on passenger locomotives only. = It is not clear to me whether all the M1's, including a and b types got = keystone number plates because they were considered dual service power = or if PRR had decided that all power was to get keystone number plates, = but by the time new power came along in WW II, the J's and the Q's got = keystones, although they were strictly freight, as did the N&W Y3's = bought used. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: STEVEGG1@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:55 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR steam number plates Greetings to everyone, Can someone tell me why some PRR steam will have a round number plate = on smokebox and others will have a keystone?=20 Thank you!!!! Steve Panopoulos ------=_NextPart_000_03FB_01C4081A.30695D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve,
 
Originally, all PRR locomotive had round number = plates.=20 Starting in 1926, the PRR put keystone number plates on passenger = locomotives=20 only. It is not clear to me whether all the M1's, including a and b = types got=20 keystone number plates because they were considered dual service = power or=20 if PRR had decided that all power was to get keystone number plates, but = by the=20 time new power came along in WW II, the J's and the Q's got keystones, = although=20 they were strictly freight, as did the N&W Y3's bought = used.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 STEVEGG1@aol.com=20
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 = 12:55=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PRR steam number = plates

Greetings to everyone,
Can = someone tell me=20 why some PRR steam will have a round number plate on smokebox and = others will=20 have a keystone?
Thank you!!!!
Steve Panopoulos=20 ------=_NextPart_000_03FB_01C4081A.30695D80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:17:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Use of Bell From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <59103CA2-7438-11D8-8293-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In the Atlas Forum, someone asked about the use of the bell, generically speaking (not PRR specific). I think we normally think of the bell for passenger trains arriving and departing, locos backup up, etc. But I thought I'd check the rules. However, I cannot find the rules! I checked the Book of Rules as well as the Philadelphia Division ETT (9/54) and could not find rules about the use of the bell! Where would one fine the official "use of bell" rules? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:33:30 -0600 Subject: Re: { SPAM 1 }::Re: [PRR] PRR steam number plates From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 09:10 AM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Steve, > =A0 > Originally, all PRR locomotive had round number plates. Starting in=20 > 1926, the PRR put keystone number plates on passenger locomotives=20 > only. It is not clear to me whether all the M1's, including a and b=20 > types got keystone number plates because they were=A0considered dual=20= > service power Greg beat me to the original reply so I'll add this to his...The=20 M1s originally got round plates except those assigned to passenger=20 service. When the M1As were built with keystones, the M1s were=20 upgraded to keystones...the M1/M1A may have been a "dual service"=20 locomotive, but most were assigned to freight duties, and only 10 M1As=20= carried passenger equipped tenders so the intent was to use most of=20 them on freight only. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4--133320839 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 09:10 AM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote: Steve, =A0 Originally, all PRR locomotive had round number plates. Starting in 1926, the PRR put keystone number plates on passenger locomotives only. It is not clear to me whether all the M1's, including a and b types got keystone number plates because they were=A0considered dual service power=20 Greg beat me to the original reply < so I'll add this to his...The M1s originally got round plates except those assigned to passenger service. When the M1As were built with keystones, the M1s were upgraded to keystones...the M1/M1A may have been a "dual service" locomotive, but most were assigned to freight duties, and only 10 M1As carried passenger equipped tenders so the intent was to use most of them on freight only. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4--133320839-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: FW: [PRR] Use of Bell Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:12:35 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re I checked the Book of Rules as well as the Philadelphia Division ETT (9/54) and could not find rules about the use of the bell! It's Rule 30 - "The engine bell or warning signal must be sounded when an engine is about to move, when running through tunnels, while approaching and passing public crossings at grade and when passing a train standing on an adjacent track." Revised effective 10-27-57. The language added in 1957 from earlier editions was "or warning signal." Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: FW: [PRR] Use of Bell Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:13:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re I checked the Book of Rules as well as the Philadelphia Division ETT (9/54) and could not find rules about the use of the bell! It's Rule 30 - "The engine bell or warning signal must be sounded when an engine is about to move, when running through tunnels, while approaching and passing public crossings at grade and when passing a train standing on an adjacent track." Revised effective 10-27-57. The language added in 1957 from earlier editions was "or warning signal." Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:16:48 -0500 Resent-Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:23:35 -0500 Resent-Message-Id: Resent-To: PRR-Talk LIST Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of Bell From: Jerry Britton To: "Al Buchan" Message-Id: <9CAF7D3A-7441-11D8-8293-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Resent-From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Al Buchan wrote: >> Re I checked the Book of Rules as well as the Philadelphia Division >> ETT >> (9/54) and could not find rules about the use of the bell! > > You didn't look very hard it's Rule 30 - "The engine bell or warning > signal must be sounded when an engine is about to move, when running > through tunnels, while approaching and passing public crossings at > grade > and when passing a train standing on an adjacent track." Revised > effective 10-27-57. The language added in 1957 from earlier editions > was "or warning signal." Thanks! I notice no mention of passenger train approaching a station or when a loco is reversing. Are those "fictitious" situations often practiced on model railroads? "30. The engine bell must be rung when an engine is about to move, when running through tunnels, while approaching and passing public crossings at grade and when passing a train standing on an adjacent track." (1951 BoR, p. 23, certified through 1954) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:49:22 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of Bell Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys: Rule 30 says: >> "The engine bell or warning signal must be sounded when an engine is >> about to move..." > Jerry asks: > > I notice no mention of ... when a loco is reversing. Are those > "fictitious" situations often practiced on model railroads? Doesn't "about to move" include reversing???? Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Milk Cars Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:10:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I'm getting more and more interested in the milk car discussion. Unfortunately I can't answer the original question of whether PRR hauled milk cars in 1954, even though I'm reasonably sure they did. It seems to me that they (and most northeastern railroads) hauled milk cars at least through the end of steam and more or less through the end of passenger service, as it was the passenger trains that hauled the milk cars. NY and PA are still chock full of dairy farms, ranging in size from quite small to quite large. Today the milk is hauled by trucks. A visit to any grocery store from the biggest to the smallest reveals a milk section full of milk with daily deliveries to the largest stores, and at least every other day delivery to the smaller ones. Considering the huge number of grocery stores in even medium sized cities, milk and milk products are clearly a big business. Therefore, so are dairies, and here in west central NY there are a number of large dairies and bottling plants around. I imagine most farms now truck their own milk to dairies, and I imagine the smaller ones still use milk cans. Has anyone tried to research this topic by looking into the milk and dairy industry instead of railroads? I certainly remember lots and lots of refrigerator cars and livestock cars on the Nickel Plate, the railroad I lived near, in the '50's. Here in dairy farm country there had to be as many. The NYO&W Historical Society has an excellent book on milk cars and milk trains available through their society, and probably available through the larger railroad bookstores (and no doubt Amazon.com). The O&W lasted until 1957. Unfortunately I can't put my finger on my copy or my other milk car and express reefer books at the moment, but let's keep this thread going - it's an interesting question! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:19:03 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:30:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 12:10 PM, William Bigler wrote: > > I'm getting more and more interested in the milk car discussion. > Unfortunately I can't answer the original question of whether PRR > hauled > milk cars in 1954 Geez, this is sounding more and more like how I got involved in reefers -- which culminated in the reefer page on KC! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] R50b weathering Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:32:30 +0000 From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:45:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: So Jerry, clearly sounds like time for a milk car/milk industry page(s)! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "William Bigler" Cc: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars > On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 12:10 PM, William Bigler wrote: > > > > > I'm getting more and more interested in the milk car discussion. > > Unfortunately I can't answer the original question of whether PRR > > hauled > > milk cars in 1954 > > Geez, this is sounding more and more like how I got involved in reefers > -- which culminated in the reefer page on KC! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:29:15 EST Subject: [PRR] Milk Cars List, Thanks a bunch to all who replied, on line and off, to my inquiry regarding milk cars. I received a wealth of information both direct and indirect. Bob Martin CPRR --part1_10e.2d547900.2d835b7b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

Thanks a bunch to all who replied, on line and off, to my inquiry regard= ing milk cars.  I received a wealth of information both direct and indi= rect.

Bob Martin
CPRR --part1_10e.2d547900.2d835b7b_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: frbob@clearnet.net (Bob McKay) Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Passenger Station Storage Tracks Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:59:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Were station tracks 3 and 6 used as holding tracks for equipment coming off or on through trains using the main platform and tracks 4 and 5? Was track 7 for mail storage? And when did the bridge to the post office originate and disappear? Bob McKay Susquehanna Division 1965 in N scale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:15 AM Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Passenger Station Storage Tracks > Interesting tidbit on page 65 of the Philadelphia Division ETT from > 9/26/54... > > 1156-A2. Harrisburg Passenger Station -- Tracks 3, 6, 7, 24, 1-E, all > tracks in Mulberry Street, State Street and Cumberland Valley Yards and > all single end tracks are storage tracks. > > What caught my eye is tracks "3, 6, and 7", which are through tracks > through the station that are dedicated for storage. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:02:01 -0500 From: CENTGA@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 3/12/2004 12:19:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > They appear to concentrate on New England and eastern New > York, I know the New England area produced a lot of milk and milk products. What I would like to see some photos of milk cars say traveling over Horseshoe. Again, I know it probably happened but I've never seen any proof of it. I model 1957 and would like to justify some milk cars for my trains. Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:12:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Passenger Station Storage Tracks From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 01:59 PM, Bob McKay wrote: > Were station tracks 3 and 6 used as holding tracks for equipment > coming off > or on through trains using the main platform and tracks 4 and 5? Was > track > 7 for mail storage? And when did the bridge to the post office > originate > and disappear? Answer to last question first. The post office wasn't even there until the 1960's...the Reading's station was. Tracks 1 & 2 were used mainly by the trains that then took the CV bridge to reach the Northern Central line to York, Baltimore and Washington. These trains carried a lot of cars that moved to other east-west trains at Harrisburg. So using track 3 for storage makes sense. It was a logical place to stash these cars for a few minutes while they waited for their connection. Track 4 is noted on valuation maps as being the "Eastbound Main". The "Westbound Main" is noted on track 7, which is in conflict. Track 6 as storage makes some sense as it is between the east and west mains. > Bob McKay > Susquehanna Division 1965 in N scale > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:15 AM > Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Passenger Station Storage Tracks > > >> Interesting tidbit on page 65 of the Philadelphia Division ETT from >> 9/26/54... >> >> 1156-A2. Harrisburg Passenger Station -- Tracks 3, 6, 7, 24, 1-E, all >> tracks in Mulberry Street, State Street and Cumberland Valley Yards >> and >> all single end tracks are storage tracks. >> >> What caught my eye is tracks "3, 6, and 7", which are through tracks >> through the station that are dedicated for storage. >> ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Milk Cans Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:16:26 -0500 Subject: PRR milk service into New York City RE: [PRR] Milk Cans

Listers,

This is from the Milk trains list.

Chris Chany

Subject: PRR milk service into New York City

Stumbled onto this website while looking for things = unrelated to milk:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/

Some PDF files with consist books are listed near the = top of the
page. Just a brief perusal turned up some very = interesting stuff
that, not being a PRR fan, I had no prior knowledge = about. It appears
the PRR did some serious hauling of milk into the = New York City area,
Long Island in particular, using both their own = Class R50b express
reefers (the ones Walthers is bringing out) as well = as milk tank cars
(I assume GPEX). Here are just two examples I found = after the
briefest of perusals:

* In 1943, there were a whole bunch of tank cars plus = an express
reefer as a can car moving from Long Island (mostly = Jamaica, from the
LIRR?) on Train #RJ-11 to various destinations in PA = (I think if I'm
guessing correctly on the abbreviations). Go = here:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/MakeUpOfTrains_NYDivi= sionNo6_Nov14,19
43_300mono.pdf

and scroll down to the fourth page.

* In 1957, express reefers apparently used as can = cars from Salamanca
(NY) to Penn Station (NY) via Harrisburg (PA). Go = here:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/Consists_InterRegion_= Passenger_April2
8_1957_150dpi_bw.pdf

and scroll down to Train #2. One would think any milk = out of
Salamanca would have been carried by the Erie to = Jersey City but I
guess for a dairy in New York City or out on L.I. = the PRR was the
smarter move.

I'm sure there's a lot more info to be mined from = these pages. But it
opens up an aspect of New York City milk operations = that I've never
seen written about in the usual magazines (perhaps = the PRR society
covered it). The use of PRR express reefers as can = cars is also
interesting.


------_=_NextPart_001_01C40866.83917190-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Milk cars Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:25:27 +0000 From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cans Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:01 -0800 RE: [PRR] Milk CansFrom very clear recollection, the Erie milk cars = were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in Jersey = City east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the = terminal throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this = was insight of the PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chany, Christopher=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Milk Cans Listers,=20 This is from the Milk trains list.=20 Chris Chany=20 Subject: PRR milk service into New York City=20 Stumbled onto this website while looking for things unrelated to milk: = http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/=20 Some PDF files with consist books are listed near the top of the=20 page. Just a brief perusal turned up some very interesting stuff=20 that, not being a PRR fan, I had no prior knowledge about. It appears=20 the PRR did some serious hauling of milk into the New York City area,=20 Long Island in particular, using both their own Class R50b express=20 reefers (the ones Walthers is bringing out) as well as milk tank cars=20 (I assume GPEX). Here are just two examples I found after the=20 briefest of perusals:=20 * In 1943, there were a whole bunch of tank cars plus an express=20 reefer as a can car moving from Long Island (mostly Jamaica, from the=20 LIRR?) on Train #RJ-11 to various destinations in PA (I think if I'm=20 guessing correctly on the abbreviations). Go here:=20 http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/MakeUpOfTrains_NYDivisionNo6_Nov14,19 = 43_300mono.pdf=20 and scroll down to the fourth page.=20 * In 1957, express reefers apparently used as can cars from Salamanca=20 (NY) to Penn Station (NY) via Harrisburg (PA). Go here:=20 http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/Consists_InterRegion_Passenger_April2 = 8_1957_150dpi_bw.pdf=20 and scroll down to Train #2. One would think any milk out of=20 Salamanca would have been carried by the Erie to Jersey City but I=20 guess for a dairy in New York City or out on L.I. the PRR was the=20 smarter move.=20 I'm sure there's a lot more info to be mined from these pages. But it=20 opens up an aspect of New York City milk operations that I've never=20 seen written about in the usual magazines (perhaps the PRR society=20 covered it). The use of PRR express reefers as can cars is also=20 interesting.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C40826.31E335D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] Milk Cans
From very clear recollection, the = Erie  milk=20 cars were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in = Jersey City=20 east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the = terminal=20 throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this was insight = of the=20 PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chany,=20 Christopher
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 = 11:16=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Milk = Cans

Listers,

This is from the Milk trains list.

Chris Chany

Subject: PRR milk service into New York City =

Stumbled onto this website while looking for things = unrelated=20 to milk:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/

Some PDF files with consist books are listed near = the top of=20 the
page. Just a brief perusal turned up = some very=20 interesting stuff
that, not being a PRR fan, = I had no=20 prior knowledge about. It appears
the PRR = did some=20 serious hauling of milk into the New York City area,
Long Island in particular, using both their own Class R50b = express=20
reefers (the ones Walthers is bringing out) = as well as=20 milk tank cars
(I assume GPEX). Here are = just two=20 examples I found after the
briefest of=20 perusals:

* In 1943, there were a whole bunch of tank cars = plus an=20 express
reefer as a can car moving from Long = Island=20 (mostly Jamaica, from the
LIRR?) on Train = #RJ-11 to=20 various destinations in PA (I think if I'm
guessing=20 correctly on the abbreviations). Go here:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/MakeUpOfTrains_NYDivisio= nNo6_Nov14,19=20
43_300mono.pdf

and scroll down to the fourth page.

* In 1957, express reefers apparently used as can = cars from=20 Salamanca
(NY) to Penn Station (NY) via = Harrisburg=20 (PA). Go here:

http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/Consists_InterRegion_Pas= senger_April2=20
8_1957_150dpi_bw.pdf

and scroll down to Train #2. One would think any = milk out of=20
Salamanca would have been carried by the = Erie to=20 Jersey City but I
guess for a dairy in New = York City=20 or out on L.I. the PRR was the
smarter = move.=20

I'm sure there's a lot more info to be mined from = these pages.=20 But it
opens up an aspect of New York City = milk=20 operations that I've never
seen written = about in the=20 usual magazines (perhaps the PRR society
covered it).=20 The use of PRR express reefers as can cars is also
interesting.


------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C40826.31E335D0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:59:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Okay, now you dun it!!! Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... Train 13 out of New York R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. Train 72 from Pittsburgh R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other railroads. Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's what's there... J. H. Capwell Willard G. Metzler Freight Station Passing Siding Freight Station Public Track Neff Milling Comp Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Traffic Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:14:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The Chautauqua branch ended at Brocton, NY & the PRR had trackage rights on the Nickel Plate up to Buffalo. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic > Okay, now you dun it!!! > > Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... > > Train 13 out of New York > R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg > > Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York > R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. > > Train 72 from Pittsburgh > R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. > > 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. > > 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). > > So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? > > MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... > > But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the > Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not > directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other > railroads. > > Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil > City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & > Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's > what's there... > > J. H. Capwell > Willard G. Metzler > Freight Station > Passing Siding > Freight Station > Public Track > Neff Milling Comp > > Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Day" Subject: [PRR] Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:48:46 -0500 List, I'm just finishing up a Walthers SW1 and need to place the horn on it. = Was wondering where it and the bell went if the PRR changed positions on = the bell. Doug (OH) ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40849.80EC9680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
 
I'm just finishing up a Walthers SW1 = and need to=20 place the horn on it.  Was wondering where it and the bell went if = the PRR=20 changed positions on the bell.
 
Doug (OH)
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40849.80EC9680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Salamanca Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:06:21 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Salamanca is just above the PA border toward the western region of NY. As you say, it was on the mainline of the Erie. A B&O line went N/S through there to Buffalo & Rochester - now the Buffalo & Pittsburgh. There was a PRR line near there running more or less N/S. I'd guess it was part of the Chatauqua branch. I suspect Jerry Shickler's website on the P&E, E&P, & Chatauqua Branches can shed light on it. I agree with whoever wondered why milk cars went to the New York City area via PRR instead of the Erie. PRR would have had to go a little ways south, then down the Buffalo Line to Harrisburg, Mainline to Philly, and back up to NYC. But remembering the Erie, the PRR may well have been quicker. If you drive across route 17/I-86, just after you cross route 220 (N/S), you'll see the B&P and the old PRR right-of-way crossing the B&P at an angle below the Interstate. As an aside, there is an Indian Reservation in Salamanca and every few years they go on the warpath (seriously!) when the governor tries to tax them in clear violation of the treaty making their reservations sovereign lands. They drop burning tires from overpasses on cars on the Interstate. Since Interstates are government property, that brings the Bureau of Indian Affairs into the act. They have much experience in these matters and usually get things calmed down and settled quickly, explaining to the governor once again that he can't do that. And now you know the rest of the story. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic > Okay, now you dun it!!! > > Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... > > Train 13 out of New York > R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg > > Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York > R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. > > Train 72 from Pittsburgh > R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. > > 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. > > 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). > > So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? > > MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... > > But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the > Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not > directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other > railroads. > > Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil > City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & > Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's > what's there... > > J. H. Capwell > Willard G. Metzler > Freight Station > Passing Siding > Freight Station > Public Track > Neff Milling Comp > > Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Traffic Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:03:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MDRemoteIP: 192.0.1.150 X-Return-Path: geshick@velocity.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: prr-talk@dsop.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Shickler" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Traffic > The Chautauqua branch ended at Brocton, NY & the PRR had trackage rights on > the Nickel Plate up to Buffalo. > --- > Oops. Just checked mapquest. Salamanca wasn't where I thought. Nevermind ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Traffic Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:11:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry Britton said: But Jerry, you just answered a question the list has been struggling with for days! The rest of us should have thought to check the 1954 Makeup of Trains, of course. And naturally, right after I sent my previous message, Jerry Shickler's reply showed up. Nice to know he's watching, though. But that info. from the '54 Makeup of Trains does confirm that my memory is (sorta) working and there really were trains hauling milk in '54. Thanks! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic > Okay, now you dun it!!! > > Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... > > Train 13 out of New York > R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg > > Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York > R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. > > Train 72 from Pittsburgh > R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. > > 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. > > 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). > > So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? > > MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... > > But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the > Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not > directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other > railroads. > > Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil > City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & > Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's > what's there... > > J. H. Capwell > Willard G. Metzler > Freight Station > Passing Siding > Freight Station > Public Track > Neff Milling Comp > > Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Salamanca Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:15:48 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000b01c40875$e2146600$164d1818@stny.rr.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Perhaps the milk cars were destined for creameries in Long Island City and a trip via Sunnyside was faster than a car float across the Hudson from the Erie docks. Regards Andy Miller -----Original Message----- (in part) From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of William Bigler Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:06 PM To: Jerry Britton; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Salamanca . . . I agree with whoever wondered why milk cars went to the New York City area via PRR instead of the Erie. PRR would have had to go a little ways south, then down the Buffalo Line to Harrisburg, Mainline to Philly, and back up to NYC. But remembering the Erie, the PRR may well have been quicker. . . . Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic > Okay, now you dun it!!! > > Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... > > Train 13 out of New York > R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg > > Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York > R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. > > Train 72 from Pittsburgh > R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. > > 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. > > 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). > > So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? > > MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... > > But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the > Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not > directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other > railroads. > > Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil > City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & > Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's > what's there... > > J. H. Capwell > Willard G. Metzler > Freight Station > Passing Siding > Freight Station > Public Track > Neff Milling Comp > > Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone > Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:52:04 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Cars In a message dated 3/12/2004 2:10:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, CENTGA@aol.com writes: know the New England area produced a lot of milk and milk products. What I would like to see some photos of milk cars say traveling over Horseshoe. Again, I know it probably happened but I've never seen any proof of it. I model 1957 and would like to justify some milk cars for my trains According to Stegmaier's consist book, the Pennsylvania Limited carried 2 milk cars one Chicago to Philadelphia and one Chicago to New York, the Admiral carried on milk and perishables car Chicago to Philadelphia; the Spirit of St. Louis carried 2 milk cars off the Buffalo line Harrisburg to New York; train 13 carried milk tank cars from Philadelphia to Bedford and Huntington. I realize this is 1952 data but the point is milk was being hauled in passenger consists and except for the west bound tank cars from Philadelphia it was hauled in R50b's. So seeing milk cars on the Curve was possible if you have photos of the above trains. Rich Orr -------------------------------1079128324 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 3/12/2004 2:10:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, CENTGA@a= ol.com writes:
know the New England area produced a lot of mi= lk and milk products. What I would like to see some photos of milk cars say=20= traveling over Horseshoe. Again, I know it probably happened but I've never=20= seen any proof of it. I model 1957 and would like to justify some milk cars=20= for my trains
According to Stegmaier's consist book, the Pennsylvania Limited carried= 2 milk cars one Chicago to Philadelphia and one Chicago to New York, the Ad= miral carried on milk and perishables car Chicago to Philadelphia; the Spiri= t of St. Louis carried 2 milk cars off the Buffalo line Harrisburg to New Yo= rk; train 13 carried milk tank cars from Philadelphia to Bedford and Hunting= ton.
 
I realize this is 1952 data but the point is milk was being hauled in p= assenger consists and except for the west bound tank cars from Philadelphia=20= it was hauled in R50b's. 
 
So seeing milk cars on the Curve was possible if you have photos of the= above trains.
 
Rich Orr
-------------------------------1079128324-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:38:51 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Salamanca and PRR From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Salamanca Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:04:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002d01c40877$30850190$07fe6ec0@MM119805PC> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: Perhaps the milk cars were destined for creameries in Long Island City and a trip via Sunnyside was faster than a car float across the Hudson from the Erie docks. There were RB50s unloaded in Long Island City at the east end of the PRR part of Sunnyside Yard for Silvercup Bread. I remember this operation in the late 40's early 50's. It took place adjacent to the big Army APO facility on Northern Blvd. See it's good to have the geezers around. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Salamanca Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:06:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: There were RB50s unloaded in Long Island City at the east end of the PRR part of Sunnyside Yard for Silvercup Bread. That should have read R50b's. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Use of Bell Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:01:10 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2004 02:04:10.0419 (UTC) FILETIME=[797BB830:01C4089F] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I must add: Rule 32: The unnecessary use of either the whistle or the bell is prohibited. (This is right out of PRR Rule Book for 1925). This is for modelers. LOL How many times when we are "playing", do we use the bell or whistle just for the fun of it. This behavior is prohibited. LOL Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, Proud SPF PRRTHS #1204 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 03/05/2004 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Specific gravity of milk and related topics Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Specific gravity of milk and related topics From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: [PRR] additional milk car resources Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:19:33 -0500 List, Bill B. has given the main listing for milk cars, so I will toss in = these: http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/index.htm ; Rutland RR http://sussexbranchmemorial.com/ ; DL&W http://vuhs.org/arrhs/ ; Addison RR http://www.apocalypse.org/~jbvb/rr/bmrr/b_and_m.html; B&M This list is from a group called : The Pfaudlers, they concentrate on = the NE milk trains, however, many of these cars were used into NY & Pa. Anyone have a line on cars of this type used on Lines West, in = particular from Columbus to Pitts.??? Thanks Fred in Vt. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C40890.DC4E2C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
     Bill B. has = given the main=20 listing for milk cars, so I will toss in these:
http://users.rcn.com/jimdu= 4/index.htm=20 ; Rutland RR
http://sussexbranchmemorial.com= /=20 ;      DL&W
http://vuhs.org/arrhs/=20 ;            =             &= nbsp;=20 Addison RR
http://www.= apocalypse.org/~jbvb/rr/bmrr/b_and_m.html; =20 B&M
 
This list is from a group called : The = Pfaudlers,=20 they concentrate on the NE milk trains, however, many of these cars were = used=20 into NY & Pa.
 
Anyone have a line on cars of this type = used on=20 Lines West, in particular from Columbus to Pitts.???
         =20 Thanks       Fred in=20 Vt.
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C40890.DC4E2C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Tanks on Flatcar Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:30:36 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben, I wonder if Dominic has that unique brass model (I forget the prototype) of two tank trailers on a flat. I guess in that case it might be considered an early example of TOFC, and I don't know if it predates the North Shore service. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: > Dominic Mazoch asked: > I have a model of 2 tanks on a flatcar. Is this an early example of TOFC? > > No, as TOFC = Trailer On Flat Car. > > The tanks were carried on the flats without their chassis. If anything, this is an early example of COFC. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] Milk cars Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 01:57:51 -0600 While at Chicagoland Hobbies today, I noticed a seemingly brand new book = by Liljestrand et al on Milk cars, Vol. 1. Browsing, it did answer a few = questions on colors, among other things, but still left a lot up in the = air. However, it is $15 soft cover and does shed some light on the = quite a few of the cars and users. Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01C4089E.97981D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
While at Chicagoland Hobbies today, I = noticed a=20 seemingly brand new book by Liljestrand et al on Milk cars, Vol. 1. = Browsing, it=20 did answer a few questions on colors, among other things, but still left = a lot=20 up in the air.  However, it is $15 soft cover and does shed some = light on=20 the quite a few of the cars and users.
 
Bob Zoeller
------=_NextPart_000_00CA_01C4089E.97981D00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Milk cars Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:38:27 -0500 Re: I noticed a seemingly brand new book by Liljestrand et al on Milk cars, Vol. 1. I believe he also has volumes 2 and 3 out. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C408CE.2CA39620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Re: I noticed a=20 seemingly brand new book by Liljestrand et al on Milk cars, Vol.=20 1.
 
I = believe he also=20 has volumes 2 and 3 out.
 
Al
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C408CE.2CA39620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:25:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Prototype Modelers Meet-Valley Forge. MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello list members.. What exactly goes on at these Prototype Modelers meets? I've never been to one before. The Valley Forge (Phila.) meet will be my first one. Just curious. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Milk & Cow Technology Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:54:26 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I spent the first 10 years of my misguided youth (1940's) in Franklin PA on the Oil City Branch. I grew up on raw milk, straight from cow to you. I'm told if I drank raw milk now I'd come down with unmentionable if not uncurable diseases. And, of course, selling raw milk is now presumably illegal. Back then, I guess we developed the necessary antibodies. Guess we had the required resistance to all that coal smoke, too. Or maybe that explains some of our idiosynchrasies! Just reflecting in Big Flats. Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Martin Latowsky" Subject: [PRR] Trainphone Equipped N5c Assignment Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:55:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello List, Is there any evidence that any trainphone-equipped N5c's were assigned to the New York division in the late 1940's? The cabin car database on the Keystone Crossings site lists only a handful of N5's with trainphone in the division, but is based on 1957 data. Regards, Martin Latowsky ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:39:38 -0600 Subject: [PRR] L1's as Snappers From: John Sheets Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:39:38 -0600 Subject: [PRR] L1's as Snappers From: John Sheets Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:39:09 -0500 From: jlmcdaniel Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk & Mad Cow Technology--- way off topic Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Whether or not you got sick depended upon the cow...the most worrisome diseases are tuberculosis and brucelosis. Healthy cows give healthy milk at the source, so to speak. The dairy farmers could add much more to the milk --staph, strep, fecal coliforms, etc. --if conditions were not sanitary. Since milk is a wonderful culture medium for bacteria, it has to be kept cold to keep this stuff from growing...think un-refrigerated railcar in late summer!) Pasteurization at the dairy kills the bugs that would otherwise take over. the table is from one of 15,000 Google hits for unpasteurized milk and disease... Jim McDaniel, TB control doc for Delmarva. Disease Organism Symptoms and Complications 1.Campylobacteriosis Campylobacter sp. bloody diarrhea 2. Salmonellosis Salmonella sp. bloody diarrhea 3. Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome E. coli O157:H7 diarrhea, kidney failure, death 4. Yersiniosis Yersinsia enterocolitica diarrhea 5. Listeriosis Listeria monocytogenes meningitis, blood infections 6. Tuberculosis Mycobacterium tuberculosis tuberculosis; pneumonia 7. Brucellosis Brucella sp. blood infections, heart infections 8. Cryptosporidiosis Cryptosporidium parvum diarrhea 9. Staphylococcal enterotoxin poisoning Staphylococcus aureus vomiting 10. Q fever Coxiella burnetti high fever, severe headache, muscle aches (can infect the liver and/or heart) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:05:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] L1's as Snappers MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, L1's were used in helper assignments between Altoona and Cresson. I have numerous photos of them in this service in the late 1940s. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mouldymay@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:35:00 EST Subject: [PRR] L1's as snappers There were also used out of Phila. pushing up the Bryn Mawr Hill until the late 1950's -------------------------------1079220899 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" There were also used out of Phila. pushing up the Bryn Mawr Hill until th= e late 1950's -------------------------------1079220899-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] None Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:32:58 -0500 Steve Sejda; haven't forgotten you on the pictures. Lee ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40929.9C1D6DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve Sejda; haven't forgotten you on the pictures.
 
Lee
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40929.9C1D6DE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk & Mad Cow Technology--- way off topic Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:52:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jim, You sure make me glad I've switched to soy milk. And don't tell me about diseases of soybeans! Bill Bigler ----- Original Message ----- From: "jlmcdaniel" To: "William Bigler" Cc: "robert netzlof" ; Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk & Mad Cow Technology--- way off topic > Whether or not you got sick depended upon the cow...the most worrisome > diseases are tuberculosis and brucelosis. Healthy cows give healthy > milk at the source, so to speak. The dairy farmers could add much more > to the milk --staph, strep, fecal coliforms, etc. --if conditions were > not sanitary. Since milk is a wonderful culture medium for bacteria, it > has to be kept cold to keep this stuff from growing...think > un-refrigerated railcar in late summer!) Pasteurization at the dairy > kills the bugs that would otherwise take over. > > the table is from one of 15,000 Google hits for unpasteurized milk and > disease... > > Jim McDaniel, TB control doc for Delmarva. > Disease > > Organism > > Symptoms and Complications > > 1.Campylobacteriosis Campylobacter sp. bloody diarrhea > 2. Salmonellosis Salmonella sp. bloody diarrhea > 3. Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome E. coli O157:H7 diarrhea, kidney failure, > death > 4. Yersiniosis Yersinsia enterocolitica diarrhea > 5. Listeriosis Listeria monocytogenes meningitis, blood infections > 6. Tuberculosis Mycobacterium tuberculosis tuberculosis; pneumonia > 7. Brucellosis Brucella sp. blood infections, heart infections > 8. Cryptosporidiosis Cryptosporidium parvum diarrhea > 9. Staphylococcal enterotoxin poisoning Staphylococcus aureus vomiting > 10. Q fever Coxiella burnetti high fever, severe headache, muscle aches > (can infect the liver and/or heart) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] L1's as Snappers Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Not sure about the curve, but out of Emporium up Keating Hill (somewhere above 2.5%) in the steam days, passenger trains warranted L-1 helpers. They used 3 I-1's on freight. Why weren't video cameras invented half a century earlier? Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sheets" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:39 PM Subject: [PRR] L1's as Snappers > Just reading the new Winter Keystone and the accounts of the test runs of > the first T-1's 6110, 6111. Fascinating to say the least! > > A number of these seemed to be on Mail and Express trains which routinely > needed helpers over the curve. > > Was somewhat surprised to see so many L-1's as helpers. Was that the > routine steam snapper in those days? what about later before the diesels > came? > > John > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Branchline PRR 12-1 sleepers Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:00:05 -0500 The new 12-1 sleepers by Branchline list the PRR cars as painted in the = Pullman Green Scheme Pennsylvania (Post War). What exactly does this = mean? I always thought that the post war paint scheme was red with gold = stripes and lettering. Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C40946.8AC2A7F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The new 12-1 sleepers by Branchline = list the PRR=20 cars as painted in the Pullman = Green Scheme=20 Pennsylvania (Post War).  What exactly does this mean?  I = always=20 thought that the post war paint scheme was red with gold stripes and=20 lettering.
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C40946.8AC2A7F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Branchline PRR 12-1 sleepers Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:00:05 -0500 The new 12-1 sleepers by Branchline list the PRR cars as painted in the = Pullman Green Scheme Pennsylvania (Post War). What exactly does this = mean? I always thought that the post war paint scheme was red with gold = stripes and lettering. Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C40946.8AC2A7F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The new 12-1 sleepers by Branchline = list the PRR=20 cars as painted in the Pullman = Green Scheme=20 Pennsylvania (Post War).  What exactly does this mean?  I = always=20 thought that the post war paint scheme was red with gold stripes and=20 lettering.
 
Jeff
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C40946.8AC2A7F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:26:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR In a message dated 3/12/04 5:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > Starting at the wye bridge in Oil City Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the remains of an old tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad on the road leading to Titusville. It looked to be too narrow for highway traffic but I could be wrong. Know anything about it? Todd Horton --part1_1cc.1be8ebb3.2d852af4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a me= ssage dated 3/12/04 5:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com=20= writes:


Starting at the wye bridge in O= il City


Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the remains of an o= ld tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad on the road leading to Ti= tusville. It looked to be too narrow for highway traffic but I could be wron= g. Know anything about it? Todd Horton --part1_1cc.1be8ebb3.2d852af4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:26:44 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR In a message dated 3/12/04 5:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > Starting at the wye bridge in Oil City Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the remains of an old tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad on the road leading to Titusville. It looked to be too narrow for highway traffic but I could be wrong. Know anything about it? Todd Horton --part1_1cc.1be8ebb3.2d852af4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a me= ssage dated 3/12/04 5:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com=20= writes:


Starting at the wye bridge in O= il City


Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the remains of an o= ld tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad on the road leading to Ti= tusville. It looked to be too narrow for highway traffic but I could be wron= g. Know anything about it? Todd Horton --part1_1cc.1be8ebb3.2d852af4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:47:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The tunnel was on the Lake Shore and Michigan Central (NYC) line on the North side of the Allegheny River, west of Oil Creek. The old Erie line was also locate on this side of the river. The Pennsy was located on the South side of the river at this location. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: CENTGA@aol.com To: wb3iqe@rocketmail.com ; PRR-TALK@dsop.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR In a message dated 3/12/04 5:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: Starting at the wye bridge in Oil City Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the remains of an old tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad on the road leading to Titusville. It looked to be too narrow for highway traffic but I could be wrong. Know anything about it? Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:05:44 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:25:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype Modelers Meet-Valley Forge. Dave writes: > Hello list members... >=20 > What exactly goes on at these Prototype Modelers meets? I'= ve=20 > never been to one before. The Valley Forge (Phila.) meet will be my first=20 > one. Just curious. >=20 > Dave Dave and all... Generally, there are seminars set up for the guest to attend, you get the=20 schedule and pattern you day after that. I seldom make all the seminars and=20= am=20 late for my own, from time to time ... just kidding. I appreciate it when t= he=20 host gives those in attendance =BD hour in between seminars as it seem like=20 anything else makes the crowd seem rushed.=20 Usually you bump into someone you would have never figure was going to be=20 there... There is always a model display room, open to all scales and all er= as.=20 Sometimes, but not always, like modelers gravitate together, I guess as they= =20 say there is strength in numbers... 3^) Then usually at lunch, about 11 Pe= nnsy=20 guys pile into a Volkswagen to grab a bite... 3^) After lunch you stroll the= =20 grounds and check out all the recent works form the local area models and a=20 good meet has more than just HO Scale freight cars and locomotive but also=20 includes both online and off line structures... Usually more fun than you w= ould=20 have expected for the money. And don't forget to BRING MODELS. All good meet= s=20 ask you to check your ego at the door and once in they strip search you just= in=20 case to make sure you didn't try to sneak your ego in ... not really but the= =20 idea here is not matter what level your modeling is currently when you walk=20 away you will be one more peg higher... Then when you show up on the list=20 afterwards we will know exactly what you saw and liked as you will be howlin= g to make=20 it the next PRR-PRO list project... JUST KIDDING ... Go for the fun of it an= d=20 share with the rest of us what you found...=20 Hey, Ben you going? Can you get us some digital shots of PRR items?=20 Greg Martin=20 --part1_7e.495b5017.2d85d34f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dave writes:


Hello list members...

            &nbs= p;   What exactly goes on at these Prototype Modelers meets? I've=20= never been to one before. The Valley Forge (Phila.) meet will be my first on= e. Just curious.

Dave


Dave and all...

Generally, there are seminars set up for the guest to attend, you get the sc= hedule and pattern you day after that. I seldom make all the seminars and am= late for my own, from time to time ... just kidding.  I appreciate it=20= when the host gives those in attendance =BD hour in between seminars as it s= eem like anything else makes the crowd seem rushed.

Usually you bump into someone you would have never figure was going to be th= ere... There is always a model display room, open to all scales and all eras= . Sometimes, but not always, like modelers gravitate together, I guess as th= ey say there is strength in numbers...  3^)  Then usually at lunch= , about 11 Pennsy guys pile into a Volkswagen to grab a bite... 3^) After lu= nch you stroll the grounds and check out all the recent works form the local= area models and a good meet has more than just HO Scale freight cars and lo= comotive but also includes both online and off line structures...  Usua= lly more fun than you would have expected for the money. And don't forget to= BRING MODELS. All good meets ask you to check your ego at the door and once= in they strip search you just in case to make sure you didn't try to sneak=20= your ego in ... not really but the idea here is not matter what level your m= odeling is currently when you walk away you will be one more peg higher... T= hen when you show up on the list afterwards we will know exactly what you sa= w and liked as you will be howling to make it the next PRR-PRO list project.= .. JUST KIDDING ... Go for the fun of it and share with the rest of us what=20= you found...

Hey, Ben you going? Can you get us some digital shots of PRR items?

Greg Martin

--part1_7e.495b5017.2d85d34f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RYagodich@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:42:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Lines East Towers To List, Some time back their was some discussion on PRR Towers. Don't remember if these things were covered. I have three questions: What are the interior wall colors inside the towers? What color were the exterior doors and windows painted on the brick towers? (The doors are obviously wood. The windows, on the tower that I'm modeling, look like the thin, lattice, metal framed windows.) During the 1940 thru 1955 time period, what color was the wooden bay painted? Was it one color or two tone? Thanks in advance for any help provided. Bob -------------------------------1079278962 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
To List,
Some time back their was some discussion on PRR Towers. Don't reme= mber if these things were covered. I have three questions:
What are the interior wall colors inside the towers? What color were th= e exterior doors and windows painted on the brick towers? (The doors are obv= iously wood. The windows, on the tower that I'm modeling, look like the thin= , lattice, metal framed windows.)
During the 1940 thru 1955 time period, what color was the wooden bay pa= inted?  Was it one color or two tone? Thanks in advance for any help pr= ovided.
 
Bob
-------------------------------1079278962-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Branchline Pullman Cars Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:16:27 -0500 From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] Branchline Pullman Cars Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:16:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:08:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: mtevans@jps.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West towers X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe:
John Frantz" said,

I've been on a tower kick late= ly. For the gentelmen that
model Pennsy Lines West. Was there a rough s= tandard design
for a brick interlocking tower?

TAOT

Best= Regards,
John
 
Gentlemen:
 
As Rick Tipton noted, th= ere was a very common PRR brick tower design found in numerous lo= cations on Lines West.

A drawing of this type of PRR tower can be fo= und in the article entitled "Piqua Crossing" in the March 1979 issue of Rai= lroad Model Craftsman. The tower in the drawing was located at Piqua, OH.
Similar towers were located at various locations throughout the Midwe= st. Examples include [you may have to cut and paste url's into your browser= ]:

Alum Creek, OH

http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/prr-t= owers/AlumCreek-Oh= 1.htm

Dunkirk, OH

http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/PRR-Towers= /Dunkirk1.htm

Race Tower, Logansport, IN

http://groups.yahoo.com/= group/PennsyWest/files/Photographs/Interlocking%20Towers/Race.JPG

Smithboro, IL
<= FONT face=3Dgeneva,arial,sans-serif size=3D2>http://internetcashpla= net.com/railroadtowers/PRR-Towers/Smithboro1.htm

Vandalia, IL

http= ://groups.yahoo.com/group/InterlockingTowers/files/IllinoisTowers/ic-van-twr-v.jpg
There are likely others that I haven't found yet. Anyone know of more?
=
There are additonal photos of some of the towers mentioned above, inclu= ding interior shots, at this site:

http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/PRR-T= owers/default.htm

These towers seem to be pretty much identical, with some minor= detail differences. Piqua tower, for instance, had a sheet metal covering = at the top of the front tower wall. Also, door, window, and chimmney locati= ons vary a little. I think Race tower is a good compromise for a model, as = it appears to have typical features.

I'd love to see a high-quality = kit of one of these brick towers.

Yours truly,

Mark T. Evans<= BR>Anaheim, CA
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:28:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West towers In a message dated 3/14/2004 1:12:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, mtevans@jps.net writes: > There are additonal photos of some of the towers mentioned above, including > interior shots, at this site: > > http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/PRR-Towers/default.htm > > Loved this posting! It included a photo of Wandle Tower, where the PFtW&C crossed the Wheeling & Lake Erie (WandLE). My dad used to take me train-watching there when I was about 2 to 4. I distinctly remember trying to understand when he told me there was no more W&LE because it had been leased to the NKP for what seemed to a little guy like an impossibly long time (99 or 999 years, I forget.) Now there is once again a W&LE -- one of the few signs of hope in today's world. Perhaps it is an omen that some day again there will be a PRR. Thanks for the memory. Lee Rainey --part1_38.437032fa.2d8652c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/14/2004 1:12:1= 8 PM Eastern Standard Time, mtevans@jps.net writes:


There are additonal photos of s= ome of the towers mentioned above, including interior shots, at this site:
http://internetcashplanet.com/railroadtowers/PRR-Towers/default.htm<= /FONT>=



Loved this posting! It included a photo of Wandle Tower, where the PFtW&= C crossed the Wheeling & Lake Erie (WandLE). My dad used to take me trai= n-watching there when I was about 2 to 4. I distinctly remember trying to un= derstand when he told me there was no more W&LE because it had been leas= ed to the NKP for what seemed to a little guy like an impossibly long time (= 99 or 999 years, I forget.) Now there is once again a W&LE -- one of the= few signs of hope in today's world. Perhaps it is an omen that some day aga= in there will be a PRR.

Thanks for the memory.

Lee Rainey --part1_38.437032fa.2d8652c4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <8AE6877C-7618-11D8-A239-000A9581CCA6@pennsyrr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Speaking of MS-60's... (again) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:34:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: What? Did you think I was going to bring up milk cars again? ;-) We last visited the "What is a MS60 debate?" about two months ago, when Stegmaier's book on 1952 passenger consists came out. I had called Harry and he indicated that, yes, an X29 could qualify as an MS60 in a passenger consist. But, again, we had no hard PRR reference. He thought it had to do with cubic footage of storage (since other cars had equivalent square footage but did not qualify). I have found a semi-Holy Grail: An official PRR document on making up passenger consists that reads "For MS60, Express, or Paper use R50 or X29 unless otherwise specified." Finally, something spelling out the use for an X29 in REA service!!! In the 1954 "Makeup of Trains" book that I have, there are only a couple of "X29" references; there are a few "MS60, R50, or X29" references; but there are dozens of spots that are to be filled by "MS60". Finally I can correctly put X29's into those spots! BTW, I will have this document posted on Keystone Crossings in about a week. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ron & Marilyn Mele" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:57:18 -0600 >Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came across the >remains = of an old tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad >on the road = leading to Titusville. It looked to be too narrow for >highway traffic = but I could be wrong. Know anything about it?=20 The Central had a small yard located just beyond the north portal of = the tunnel and an interchange with the PRR's Chautauqua Branch. This = trackage was probably abandoned early in the Penn Central era though I = don't have an exact date.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C409FE.8E4D72C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
 


>Bob, during a recent trip through Oil City I came = across the=20 >remains of an old tunnel. It's across the river from the railroad = >on=20 the road leading to Titusville. It looked to be too narrow for = >highway=20 traffic but I could be wrong. Know anything about it?
 
The Central had a small yard located just beyond the north portal = of the=20 tunnel and an interchange with the PRR's Chautauqua Branch. This = trackage=20 was probably abandoned early in the Penn Central era though I don't = have an=20 exact date.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C409FE.8E4D72C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Class I1 tender population Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:12:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 02:12:52.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[053C3C20:01C40A33] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To the list at large, Anyone happen to know what the most common tender class assigned to class I1 locomotives would have been between 1947 - 1957? I am looking at this from a total fleet standpoint rather than most prevalent in a single area of assignment. Another thought is what would be the all-time winner for most numerous tender class used looking over the lifespan of I1 class engines. This one for me is tough to surmise due to the many flavors the class was assigned over their life. Another question, was the 82" deck height changed or altered over the years for class I locomotives? Thanks in Advance, Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Class I1 tender population Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:12:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 02:12:52.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[053C3C20:01C40A33] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: To the list at large, Anyone happen to know what the most common tender class assigned to class I1 locomotives would have been between 1947 - 1957? I am looking at this from a total fleet standpoint rather than most prevalent in a single area of assignment. Another thought is what would be the all-time winner for most numerous tender class used looking over the lifespan of I1 class engines. This one for me is tough to surmise due to the many flavors the class was assigned over their life. Another question, was the 82" deck height changed or altered over the years for class I locomotives? Thanks in Advance, Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: RE: [PRR] Milk Traffic Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:23:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: <009f01c4086e$970db820$960100c0@ges> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out009.verizon.net from [4.7.165.29] at Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:23:40 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, The PRR between Brocton and Buffalo had it's own track on the south side of the Plate. The Plate and PRR operated this section as double track. It was not trackage rights. Don Murphy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Shickler Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 3:14 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Milk Traffic The Chautauqua branch ended at Brocton, NY & the PRR had trackage rights on the Nickel Plate up to Buffalo. --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR E&P, P&E, & Chautauqua branch web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: [PRR] Milk Traffic > Okay, now you dun it!!! > > Out of the 1954 "Makeup of Trains"... > > Train 13 out of New York > R50 Milk cans for Salamanca, to 527 at Harrisburg > > Train 30 "Spirit of St. Louis" arriving New York > R50 milk cans from Salamanca, from 574 at Harrisburg. > > Train 72 from Pittsburgh > R50 Milk from Hudson cut off, to DL&W at Kearney Jct. > > 527 was a Philadelphia to Williamsport (and points north) train. > > 574 was the "Southern Express" from Williamsport (and points north). > > So where the heck is Salamanca, and what was there? > > MapQuest shows Salamanca west of Olean, NY. So, off the the CT1000... > > But first, what division? In 1941, it was the Buffalo Division of the > Central Region. The division map shows the town of Salamanca was not > directly on the PRR, but was on the Erie and one or more other > railroads. > > Looks like you gotta leave the main, then the Allegheny Branch at Oil > City, putting you on the Salamanca Branch/Western New York & > Pennsylvania Ry. Head out about 90 miles and you hit Salamanca. Here's > what's there... > > J. H. Capwell > Willard G. Metzler > Freight Station > Passing Siding > Freight Station > Public Track > Neff Milling Comp > > Okay, I just spent 15 minutes on this. And for what? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone > Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Class I1 tender population Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:33:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Harry and List: Class 90F82 was always the most common tender on I1s and I1sa locomotives. All 598 were built with 90F82 tenders. In later years larger tenders were built and assigned to I1 locomotives. In the following are quantities of freight tenders with 82" decks for a few representative years: 1930: 90F82 - 495 130F82 - 1 130F82a - 100 180F82 - 1 210F82 - 1 1-1-1948 (104 I1s + 494 I1sa): 90F82 - 567 130F82 - 1 180F82 - 1 210F82 - 1 210F82a - 28 1-1-1952 (488 I1sa): 90F82 - 440 130F82 - 1 180F82 - 1 180F82a - 5 210F82 - 3 210F82a - 36 210F82b - 3 250F82 - 1 250F82a - 3 1-1-1956 (194 I1sa): 90F82 - 148 130F82 - 1 130F82a - 4 180F82a - 3 210F82 - 4 210F82a - 35 210F82b - 3 250F82 - 1 250F82a - 4 Note that there were excess tenders at some times. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Fitch" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:12 PM Subject: [PRR] Class I1 tender population | | To the list at large, | | Anyone happen to know what the most common tender class assigned to class I1 | locomotives would have been between 1947 - 1957? | I am looking at this from a total fleet standpoint rather than most | prevalent in a single area of assignment. Another thought is what would be | the all-time winner for most numerous tender class used looking over the | lifespan of I1 class engines. This one for me is tough to surmise due to the | many flavors the class was assigned over their life. Another question, was | the 82" deck height changed or altered over the years for class I | locomotives? | | Thanks in Advance, | | Harry Fitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:31:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Harsimus Cove? In a message dated 3/12/04 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > RE: [PRR] Milk CansFrom very clear recollection, the Erie milk cars = > were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in Jersey = > City east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the = > terminal throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this = > was insight of the PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.=20 > I have to ask the stupid question "what did JH tower look like?" I was once taken to Harsimus Cove and saw a tower with what looked like copper roofing on it. Was I at JH? I know from looking at more recent maps that the site of all this has suffered massive redevelopment. I assume the only thing recognizable from the whole area is the Colgate-Palmolive clock, which was reset on the waterfront and is again lit. PS - the clock that one replaced was moved to Colgate's Jeffersonville IN works, and remains atop the factory just east of the PRR's mile-long Ohio River Bridge. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_194.25fcac79.2d8699c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 3/12/04 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=

RE: [PRR] Milk CansFrom very cl= ear recollection, the Erie  milk cars =3D
were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in Jersey =3D City east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the =3D
terminal throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this =3D was insight of the PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.=3D20


I have to ask the stupid question "what did JH tower look like?"  I was= once taken to Harsimus Cove and saw a tower with what looked like copper ro= ofing on it.  Was I at JH?

I know from looking at more recent maps that the site of all this has suffer= ed massive redevelopment.  I assume the only thing recognizable from th= e whole area is the Colgate-Palmolive clock, which was reset on the waterfro= nt and is again lit.

PS - the clock that one replaced was moved to Colgate's Jeffersonville IN wo= rks, and remains atop the factory just east of the PRR's mile-long Ohio Rive= r Bridge.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_194.25fcac79.2d8699c2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:31:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Harsimus Cove? In a message dated 3/12/04 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > RE: [PRR] Milk CansFrom very clear recollection, the Erie milk cars = > were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in Jersey = > City east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the = > terminal throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this = > was insight of the PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.=20 > I have to ask the stupid question "what did JH tower look like?" I was once taken to Harsimus Cove and saw a tower with what looked like copper roofing on it. Was I at JH? I know from looking at more recent maps that the site of all this has suffered massive redevelopment. I assume the only thing recognizable from the whole area is the Colgate-Palmolive clock, which was reset on the waterfront and is again lit. PS - the clock that one replaced was moved to Colgate's Jeffersonville IN works, and remains atop the factory just east of the PRR's mile-long Ohio River Bridge. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_194.25fcac79.2d8699c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a messa= ge dated 3/12/04 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:=

RE: [PRR] Milk CansFrom very cl= ear recollection, the Erie  milk cars =3D
were stored on a siding on the South side of Pavonia Avenue in Jersey =3D City east of the grade crossing and opposite the enginehouse and the =3D
terminal throat which were on the north side of Pavonia Ave. All this =3D was insight of the PRR's JH tower at Harsimus Cove.=3D20


I have to ask the stupid question "what did JH tower look like?"  I was= once taken to Harsimus Cove and saw a tower with what looked like copper ro= ofing on it.  Was I at JH?

I know from looking at more recent maps that the site of all this has suffer= ed massive redevelopment.  I assume the only thing recognizable from th= e whole area is the Colgate-Palmolive clock, which was reset on the waterfro= nt and is again lit.

PS - the clock that one replaced was moved to Colgate's Jeffersonville IN wo= rks, and remains atop the factory just east of the PRR's mile-long Ohio Rive= r Bridge.

Rick Tipton - Louisville KY
Member, Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_194.25fcac79.2d8699c2_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Another tender question Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 06:32:43 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 11:32:50.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F460970:01C40A81] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another tender question? (no pun intended) Thanks for all who input information on the class I1 tender question. Another thought on this subject of tenders. Has anyone a listing of tender deck heights for all classes including both stoker and non stoker equipped dimensions? Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Another tender question Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:28:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SLUIDL: 883A1CE2-E5604036-984679BA-6B313CF1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: http://www.wsbcos.com/tenders.htm Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Harry Fitch Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:33 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Another tender question Another tender question? (no pun intended) Thanks for all who input information on the class I1 tender question. Another thought on this subject of tenders. Has anyone a listing of tender deck heights for all classes including both stoker and non stoker equipped dimensions? Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 05:54:46 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: RE: [PRR] Another tender question > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:14:06 -0800 From: Ed Workman Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/04 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic (was PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/04) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:39:16 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic (was PRR-Talk Digest - 03/13/04) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:39:16 +0000 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:05:16 -0500 From: Tom Hayden Subject: [PRR] Keystone and T1's and SPAM From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:10:49 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2004 16:07:19.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[97CE4370:01C40AA7] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I was in Strasburg on Saturday to check out 89 in it's new CN look (looks great!). I was really disturbed to see the PRR steamers accross the street though. 460, the L1, and the K4 are now all sitting outside, without jacketing. The M1 is also without jacketing. I know funds are tight in PA right now, but they really look awful. I like the M1's new position (although in a perfect world it would be inside as well, but that tender is just monstorous!), but I sure hope they don't intend on keeping the K4 out there permently. You can already see new rust on the engine. I have always been concerned with some of their choices of what goes inside there (far to many pieces of rolling stock, and other lack luster pieces that should be moved to make room for more of the priceless engines, i.e. 4800. I don't care about yet another shay, or heilser, or fireless cooker when the very first GG1 is rusting away outside, much less the K4, L1, etc. as a RR preservation advocate I hate to see any locomotive or car lost to the weather, but sometimes choices have to be made, and I don't agree with some of the one's they have made. ). 460 has been outside now since last summer. I am very concerned about this, does anyone know what is going on? Why are 3 of the most valuable pieces in the collection sitting outside in the weather again after we tax payers paid for the building expasion to protect them? I can understand a few months while they were removing the lagging for EPA reasons, but this is getting to be a long time now, and after this past winter the locos are starting to show it. If anyone from the RR Museum of PA is reading this please get them back inside! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ed Mentz" Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:45:55 -0500 From: Ed Workman Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:19:19 -0800 From: "Ed Mentz" Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:45:55 -0500 From: Ed Workman Subject: Re: [PRR] NYC Milk Traffic Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:19:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] That tunnel at Oil City, a reference Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:07:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10,14-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: aurora7@juno.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have to agree with you, Tom. When a Museum swears to never operate their collection again as a matter of preservation, isn't it somewhat of a digression to leave those same priceless pieces out in the weather? Asbestos abatement is a serious issue, and I can understand the Museum wanting the work done outdoors. The 4800 should have been indoors from the start, imho. Other items from the collection should be moved under cover or replaced entirely (the MP54 comes to mind). Still, each of these pieces remains in the custody of persons who have their best interest at heart. The most fragile of the rolling stock must be kept dry. The locos needing the greatest attention on sheet metal should be indoors next. On the other hand, if RRMPa would like to shuffle each engine across the street for a complete operations rebuild, well, that's okay with me too! I hate to have to resolve myself to the 460 never having hot grates again. Dick Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "There are no stupid questions, but there are many inquisitive idiots." ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: [PRR] Milk cans, cars, trains & traffic Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:33:51 +0000 From: Rowilki@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:09:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Oil City and PRR X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 139 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Regarding the tunnel at Oil City - It most likely was the tunnel on the NYC line from Stoneboro, PA to Oil City. The tunnel was abandoned in about 1964 due to unsafe conditions. There was not enough traffic to or from Oil City to justify the cost to rebuild it. I was in the NYC industrial development office in Pittsburgh at that time and I remember assuring the few on line customers between Franklin and Oil City that service would be continued. As I recall the line was abandoned near the town of Reno which was the location of a Wolfs Head Oil Co. refinery - the major shipper on the line. Up until some time in the "depression" the PRO had truckage rights over this line from Stoneboro to Oil City and ran trains from New Castle to Oil City. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:56:32 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: That tunnel at Oil City So Oil City had service from the Erie, NYC, and of course the PRR. During my trip there I didn't see much in the way of shippers. I'm sure it was larger in it's day. My question is didn't pipelines carry much of the oil from an early time? What and how much business would the railroads have had there in say the 50's? Todd Horton --part1_1ef.1b93cb6e.2d87c6e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" So Oil=20= City had service from the Erie, NYC, and of course the PRR. During my trip t= here I didn't see much in the way of shippers. I'm sure it was larger in it'= s day. My question is didn't pipelines carry much of the oil from an early t= ime? What and how much business would the railroads have had there in say th= e 50's? Todd Horton --part1_1ef.1b93cb6e.2d87c6e0_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:31:12 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-SLUIDL: 9A520A86-14334202-BACE2567-F47BAF68 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Can't speak to all the rusting hulks, but my limited understanding of the situation around the 4800 is - It is not owned by the RRMPA so it does not get the premium space inside. I think if you check back through the PRR-Talk archives that this has been a matter of discussion several times. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:12:44 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] GG1 4800 at RRMPA Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Greetings to Wayne and the List: In a nutshell: This was true at one time; the 4800 was rescued by, owned by, and preserved by Lancaster Chapter NRHS. For a number of years, the chapter was justly proud of its accomplishment and wished to hold on to ownership. In the interim, a private individual bought the 4935 and paid for its restoration, and then donated it to the museum. RMPa then faced a difficult decision, and it chose to place the GG1 it owned under protective roof. At some point years later, the Chapter changed its decision and donated the 4800 to the museum, which now owns both. Dan Cupper ... at the western frontier of still-energized PRR catenary, in Harrisburg, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------- Wayne S. Betty wrote: >Can't speak to all the rusting hulks, but my limited understanding of the >situation around the 4800 is - >It is not owned by the RRMPA so it does not get the premium space inside. >I think if you check back through the PRR-Talk archives that this has been a >matter of discussion several times. > >Cos >Wayne S. Betty >Cos Communications, Inc. >Small business IT services. > >Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road >NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 >NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 >http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm >at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:14:54 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Tom and Gentelmen, This evening I asked a member of the restoration team about the issues raised earlier today. As it stands right now it is unknown when the jackets will be placed back on the boilers of the 460, L1 and 3750. Also, every inch of availble railspace is taken inside the museum. The team at the RRMPA has done its best with the space provided to portray its name the Railroad Museum of PENNSYLVANIA. NOT the Railroad Museum of the Pennsylvania Railroad. For some to see another shay or heisler is desired, but all of the pieces inside and outside the museum tell a story of the past and present of the rail industry in PA. I can tell you from personal experience that the curator has his best interest in preserving history. I've seen examples at otehr mueums where a car at one point was pristine, but since a window gasket wasn't "prototypical" the car was left outside in the weather until the point now, two curators later and the car is literally falling aaprt with mold and mildew. If a person feels something should be done, contribute. Wheteher through volunteer hours or charitable giving. As my friend said rather bluntly. "If you want it inside, show me the money for an expansion." Personally IMHO he's right. Granted, you can argue that residents such as myself contribute through taxes, but the amount a single person contributes is pennies compared to what is actually needed to restore, renovate, and maintain its collection. Join the FRM, let your opinion be heard. The worst that can happen is someone says, "No, it can't happen right now." My 10 cents, John "Tom von Trott" wrote: I was in Strasburg on Saturday to check out 89 in it's new CN look (looks great!). I was really disturbed to see the PRR steamers accross the street though. 460, the L1, and the K4 are now all sitting outside, without jacketing. The M1 is also without jacketing. I know funds are tight in PA right now, but they really look awful. I like the M1's new position (although in a perfect world it would be inside as well, but that tender is just monstorous!), but I sure hope they don't intend on keeping the K4 out there permently. You can already see new rust on the engine. I have always been concerned with some of their choices of what goes inside there (far to many pieces of rolling stock, and other lack luster pieces that should be moved to make room for more of the priceless engines, i.e. 4800. I don't care about yet another shay, or heilser, or fireless cooker when the very first GG1 is rusting away outside, much less the K4, L1, etc. as a RR preservation advocate I hate to see any locomotive or car lost to the weather, but sometimes choices have to be made, and I don't agree with some of the one's they have made. ). 460 has been outside now since last summer. I am very concerned about this, does anyone know what is going on? Why are 3 of the most valuable pieces in the collection sitting outside in the weather again after we tax payers paid for the building expasion to protect them? I can understand a few months while they were removing the lagging for EPA reasons, but this is getting to be a long time now, and after this past winter the locos are starting to show it. If anyone from the RR Museum of PA is reading this please get them back inside! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Circus Train at Warsaw, Indiana!! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:23:17 -0500 PRR-Listers: CIRCUS TRAIN!! Circus Extra, headed by RS-27 2414, headed east though = Warsaw at 4:31 pm on June 22, 1965. The average travel speed between = Plymouth and Warsaw was just over 29 mph. Ted ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C40AEC.E11C3BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
PRR-Listers:
 

CIRCUS = TRAIN!!=20 Circus Extra, headed by RS-27 2414, headed east though=20 Warsaw at 4:31 pm on June=20 22, 1965. The average travel speed between=20 Plymouth and=20 Warsaw was just over 29=20 mph.

 

Ted

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C40AEC.E11C3BA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Another B&O train through Warsaw Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:53:47 -0500 "B+O Extra," an eastbound, went through Warsaw at 7:02am on June 20, = 1965. It was lead by B&O 4544, an F-7A. This is the third B&O train to = use the PRR Ft. Wayne Line in 1965. Ted=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C40B2B.D0775FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

=93B+O = Extra,=94 an=20 eastbound, went through  Warsaw=20 at 7:02am on June 20, 1965. It was lead by B&O = 4544, an=20 F-7A. This is the third B&O train to use the PRR Ft. Wayne Line in=20 1965.

 

Ted 

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C40B2B.D0775FC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:40:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Reading Harrisburg Yard Map From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7A133901-774F-11D8-8019-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've posted to Keystone Crossings (Maps section) a Reading Company map of their Harrisburg yard. I've included it on my Pennsy site as it rather clearly shows much of the PRR plant and how the two lines integrated. Dated 1934 and corrected to 1972. Scale is 1" = 400'. Here is a direct link... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/images/rdg_hbg_map.jpg Provided by Dan Cupper. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Atlas Engine/Decoder Question Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:35:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:08:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Reefer Page From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've reorganized the reefer page. Comments welcome... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/reefer.ws4d Before I described the companies, then the paint schemes, then the available N scale models (HO coming). I have changed it to now show under the header for each company its paint schemes and available models. I've also added more info about the founding of FGE and the participating railroads. I just learned -- maybe you already knew -- that FGE founded National Car Company as a subsidiary to handle meat reefers (Kahns, Oscar Meyer, Roth, Pepper, etc.). I didn't know they were related. Much more will be coming on the PFE. I just got in the "Pacific Fruit Express" book (second edition) from Signature Press. This thing is a text book!!! It's about an inch and a half thick. It has histories of the company, of each and every car type, of all of the facilities. It goes into thorough detail of the movement of each and every type of produce. Talks about various cooling methods. Has a section which "follows a car" for several eras. There is a 1953 example of a car coming east and being interchanged with the PRR to Philadelphia. For anyone interested in reefer ops, this book is a gem. Suggested retail is $75. Expensive, but I'm telling ya... Just wish there was a book like this for Our Companies (FGE / WFE / BREX). ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:44:47 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 11:32 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > Found this web site that the guy tells how he weathered this car. To > my eyes it looks pretty good and a new technique for me any way. > > http://www.weatheringdoctor.com/PennsyExpressReefer.html I debated replying to this under the "if you can say something nice..." rule and because I think that the modeler has done a really intricate and nice job of weathering the car...I just question if it the correct type of weathering for this type of car. One of the things I noticed in studying the weathering patterns of R50Bs and X29s in express service is that they get all-over grungy rather than showing a vertical streaky paint job. Boxcars are more likely to show that vertical pattern...or perhaps an R50B that's been sitting in storage for a while I would be interested in seeing a prototype R50B (in service) with that type of weathering pattern. Since the express cars are moving, and usually at some speed, the dirt/moisture get distributed horizontally, not vertically. The technique shown by Mr. Simpkins, which is very similar to Jim Six's "Q-tip" weathering is a great approach for weathering house cars... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ken Nesbitt" Subject: [PRR] Bill Volkmer Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:12:25 -0500 I was on this site for the museum of PA, does this reference the same = Mr. Volkmer that shares his knowledge and experience on the list ? =20 =20 While awaiting an uncertain future in Northumberland, the once-famous "Lindbergh Engine" found a friend, a former PRR management trainee named William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the facility as a general = foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an instant liking to the = venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine received periodic = lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads permitted.=20 http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm =20 Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C40B60.B5923380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Message
I was = on this site=20 for the museum of PA, does this reference the same Mr. Volkmer that = shares his=20 knowledge and experience on the list ?
 
 

While awaiting an uncertain future in Northumberland, = the=20 once-famous “Lindbergh Engine” found a friend, a former PRR = management trainee=20 named William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the = facility as=20 a general foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an instant = liking to=20 the venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine received = periodic=20 lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads permitted.=20

http://www.rrmuseu= mpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm
 
Kenny
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C40B60.B5923380-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:20:04 -0500 From: Zak Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering From: "Bruce Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:42:13 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Guys, I recall seeing R50b's from LIRR trains from and to Penn Station many times, often on the adjacent track, and they were almost uniformly filthy - not as filthy as a New York City subway car of that era, but close............. The grime was the color of a mixture of rail brown and weathered black to use model railroad colors. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zak" To: "PRR-Talk" Cc: "Bruce Smith" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering > While I'd never claim to be any kind of an expert on weathering, a year or > so ago I found a site that I believe dealt with the Chicago yards. In it, > there was a page on reefers, and there was a pix of a PRR reefer. > > Although it was a B&W picture, it clearly showed that the next time the car > would see a hose and water would probably be the first! Lettering on the > side of the car was barely visible. > > In the text of that "article", the writer stated that the outside of these > cars were seldom cleaned. > > As I said, I'm no expert. The only reason this stuck in my mind is that > this PRR car had wound up in California -- San Francisco, I believe. > > I hope this may have been of some help. > > Zak > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Smith" > To: > Cc: "PRR-Talk" > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] R50b weathering > > > > > > On Friday, March 12, 2004, at 11:32 AM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > > > > > Found this web site that the guy tells how he weathered this car. To > > > my eyes it looks pretty good and a new technique for me any way. > > > > > > http://www.weatheringdoctor.com/PennsyExpressReefer.html > > > > I debated replying to this under the "if you can say something nice..." > > rule and because I think that the modeler has done a really intricate > > and nice job of weathering the car...I just question if it the correct > > type of weathering for this type of car. One of the things I noticed > > in studying the weathering patterns of R50Bs and X29s in express > > service is that they get all-over grungy rather than showing a vertical > > streaky paint job. Boxcars are more likely to show that vertical > > pattern...or perhaps an R50B that's been sitting in storage for a while > > I would be interested in seeing a prototype R50B (in service) > > with that type of weathering pattern. Since the express cars are > > moving, and usually at some speed, the dirt/moisture get distributed > > horizontally, not vertically. The technique shown by Mr. Simpkins, > > which is very similar to Jim Six's "Q-tip" weathering is a great > > approach for weathering house cars... > > > > Happy Rails > > Bruce > > > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin > > Franklin > > __ > > / \ > > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ > > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > > |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| > > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Bill Volkmer Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:23:02 -0600 From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Yes. Note his very detailed responses. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Nesbitt [mailto:ken.nesbitt@fbcs-inc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:12 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Bill Volkmer I was on this site for the museum of PA, does this reference the same = Mr. Volkmer that shares his knowledge and experience on the list ? =20 =20 While awaiting an uncertain future in Northumberland, the once-famous = "Lindbergh Engine" found a friend, a former PRR management trainee named = William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the facility as a general = foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an instant liking to = the venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine received = periodic lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads = permitted.=20 http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm =20 Kenny ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40BA5.3E8CA385 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
Yes.  Note his very detailed=20 responses.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Nesbitt=20 [mailto:ken.nesbitt@fbcs-inc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, = 2004 1:12=20 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Bill=20 Volkmer

I = was on this site=20 for the museum of PA, does this reference the same Mr. Volkmer that = shares his=20 knowledge and experience on the list ?
 
 

While awaiting an uncertain future in = Northumberland, the=20 once-famous “Lindbergh Engine” found a friend, a former = PRR management trainee=20 named William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the = facility=20 as a general foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an = instant=20 liking to the venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine = received=20 periodic lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads = permitted.=20

http://www.rrmuseu= mpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm
 
Kenny
------_=_NextPart_001_01C40BA5.3E8CA385-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "prr643" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:32:52 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2004 04:32:54.0236 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA2521C0:01C40BD8] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wow, I did not think I'd strike quite the nerve I did, I was just wondering if anyone knew what the deal was LOL, but I should have know that those 4 locos, plus all the others, would be close to many members railroad hearts. Just a few thoughts on John Frantz's response... > As it stands right now it is unknown when the jackets will > be placed back on the boilers of the 460, L1 and 3750. ouch, kinda scary, but as a particapant in various RR restoration projects I know the feeling. It is as was said by another, money, money, money. > Also, every inch of availble railspace is taken inside the > museum. by what? Three of the bigger steam pieces that were inside are now out (the L1, the K4, E6). A few years ago after the new expansion was finished I was very pleased to see the long neglected PRR locos inside (not to say the Freinds did not make a valient effort to keep them in as best shape as possible, they sure did, but the weather was winning the battle long term, as it always will), and looking great in new paint jobs. What did they do with the space? Is it diesel land inside? If so I won't need to pay to go in, what I want to see can be seen from the street. > > The team at the RRMPA has done its best with the space > provided to portray its name the Railroad Museum of > PENNSYLVANIA. NOT the Railroad Museum of the Pennsylvania > Railroad. The two are one in the same. It is true of course there was a lot of other RR history in this state, but the largest influence on all of it was the PRR. There was Baldwin in Philly, of course it's largest orders, came from the PRR. And of course Reading, B&O, shortlines, NKP, NYC, and on and on. But without the PRR, none of it really mattered. It was the backbone. For some to see another shay or heisler is > desired, but all of the pieces inside and outside the > museum tell a story of the past and present of the rail > industry in PA. I can tell you from personal experience > that the curator has his best interest in preserving > history. I've seen examples at otehr mueums where a car at > one point was pristine, but since a window gasket wasn't > "prototypical" the car was left outside in the weather > until the point now, two curators later and the car is > literally falling aaprt with mold and mildew. > Unfortunantly many museums of all types have this problem. To much for the space they have. They just got another loco, frankly, as much as I do like the idea of preserving an E60, they don't have the space, the man-power, or the money. Stop aquiring new stuff until you can keep the stuff you have in good shape! I very well may take your advice John and join the member rolls of the friends, been meaning to for years, just never quite got around to it. Now may be a good time. But the responses I received basically make me feel worse, not better, about the fate of the PRR's most historic pieces. I have to ask why they are using precious space inside for more fake buildings. We are not talking about minor pieces here! Sending the K4 or E6 out for asbestos removal and not keeping room inside for them is like if the Louver sent the Mona Lisa to be cleaned and decided to not put it back when finished! This to me shows a major shift in priorities of the organization. Only time will tell I guess, I hope I'm wrong. Tom von Trott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David Honner" Subject: [PRR] Panhandle Help Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:19:34 +1100 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Due to a burglary, a vast amount of data (unbacked up, of course!) went missing when my laptop was stolen from me. I am fortunate that some on this list have helped me in the past, and I am hopeful that you will be able to send to me again. I would very much like: (1) Track charts of the Panhandle from Carnegie to Trinway, then down to Zanesville. Some kind stranger sent them to me a few months ago so if it is not too much trouble I would appreciate it being sent again. (2) Photographs of the Stuebenville bridge carrying the Panhandle main across the Ohio. I had several of these sent to me some time ago but I am sorry I cannot remember your name - please send again! If anybody else can help with these two requests I would appreciate it. A terrible thing to happen but it could be worse - they could have trashed or stolen my engines for a start. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bill Volkmer Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:17:58 -0500 See Trains Mag January 2004 issue for the "rest of the story". -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ken Nesbitt Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:12 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Bill Volkmer I was on this site for the museum of PA, does this reference the same Mr. Volkmer that shares his knowledge and experience on the list ? While awaiting an uncertain future in Northumberland, the once-famous "Lindbergh Engine" found a friend, a former PRR management trainee named William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the facility as a general foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an instant liking to the venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine received periodic lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads permitted. http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm Kenny ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C40C00.C3463CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
See=20 Trains Mag January 2004 issue for the "rest of the = story".
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ken=20 Nesbitt
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:12 PM
To:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] Bill = Volkmer

I = was on this site=20 for the museum of PA, does this reference the same Mr. Volkmer that = shares his=20 knowledge and experience on the list ?
 
 

While awaiting an uncertain future in = Northumberland, the=20 once-famous “Lindbergh Engine” found a friend, a former = PRR management trainee=20 named William Volkmer, who had been assigned to the = facility=20 as a general foreman. A devoted steam enthusiast, Volkmer took an = instant=20 liking to the venerable old speedster, and saw to it that the engine = received=20 periodic lubrication and paint touchup whenever shop workloads = permitted.=20

http://www.rrmuseu= mpa.org/about/roster/e6.htm
 
Kenny
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01C40C00.C3463CB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:24:15 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:24:15 +0000 From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] PRR Tuckahoe Branch Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:46:07 -0500 I have come across an old map dated 1904 of the Northumberland yard area (the yard as yet was unbuilt at that time). The map shows a branch line operating a short distance to the northeast labelled the Tuckahoe Branch. It is my understanding that there was a mineral water bottling operation up in the hills near that area. Question 1: Was the line ever constructed? Question 2: Do any photos exist of the branch? Question 3: If yes to one or two, when was the line abandoned? It is hoped that Mr. Cupper might have some insight on this as I have a friend doing serious research on the railroads of the region. Thanks in advance for any help you all may want to share. Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C40C04.AC641860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I have = come across=20 an old map dated 1904 of the Northumberland yard area (the yard as yet = was=20 unbuilt at that time).  The map shows a branch line operating a = short=20 distance to the northeast labelled the Tuckahoe Branch.  It is my=20 understanding that there was a mineral water bottling operation up in = the hills=20 near that area.
 
 
Question 1: =20 Was the line ever constructed?
 
Question 2:  Do=20 any photos exist of the branch?
 
Question 3:  If=20 yes to one or two, when was the line abandoned?
 
It is = hoped that Mr.=20 Cupper might have some insight on this as I have a friend doing serious = research=20 on the railroads of the region.
 
Thanks = in advance=20 for any help you all may want to share.
 
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C40C04.AC641860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: WAMMP236@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:59 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) Big Day for the Pennsylvanian!!! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Sunday March 14th was a big day for AMTRAK's westbound=20 Pennsylvanian. Returning college students from spring break swelled the cons= ist of #45 to 9=20 cars with over 500 passengers ON BOARD through most of the NYP PGH journey.=20 AMTRAK actually added a coach at Harrisburg westbound,( the train had 8 cars= =20 NYP to HAR) due to standee conditions. Unfortunately the train was well over= 2=20 hours late arriving Pittsburgh. But this is just another example of how good= =20 trains at convienient times can be very successful. --part1_11f.2c1d63c0.2d8a0263_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Big Day for the Pennsylvanian!!! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Sunday March 14th was a big day for AMTRAK's westbound Pe= nnsylvanian. Returning college students from spring break swelled the consis= t of #45 to 9 cars with over 500 passengers ON BOARD through most of the NYP= PGH journey. AMTRAK actually added a coach at Harrisburg westbound,( the tr= ain had 8 cars NYP to HAR) due to standee conditions. Unfortunately the trai= n was well over 2 hours late arriving Pittsburgh. But this is just another e= xample of how good trains at convienient times can be very successful.
 --part1_11f.2c1d63c0.2d8a0263_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:20:16 -0600 Subject: TAN Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 17, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Mark Taylor wrote: > List; I am building 2 BCW M70b's and I am wanting to double check the > instruction measurements against car builder plan dimensions ( I want > to get the right dimension for truck centers as well as the overall > length over the couplers). Can anyone give my the conversion for HO > scale against an inch /foot ruler. I need the decimal equivilent of an > HO scale foot / inch, as an example say 0.250 is equal to 1.75 ft. in > HO scale. I hope I am explaning this right. Mark Um, Mark... that would be 1:87.1 So one HO scale foot is 1 real foot divided by 87.1 which is 0.0115 real feet, or rephrased 1 HO scale foot = 0.0115 feet 1 HO scale foot = 0.0115*12 = 0.138 inches 1 HO scale inch = 0.138/12 = 0.0115 inches Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:20:16 -0600 Subject: TAN Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. From: Bruce Smith X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Wednesday, March 17, 2004, at 03:06 PM, Mark Taylor wrote: > List; I am building 2 BCW M70b's and I am wanting to double check the > instruction measurements against car builder plan dimensions ( I want > to get the right dimension for truck centers as well as the overall > length over the couplers). Can anyone give my the conversion for HO > scale against an inch /foot ruler. I need the decimal equivilent of an > HO scale foot / inch, as an example say 0.250 is equal to 1.75 ft. in > HO scale. I hope I am explaning this right. Mark Um, Mark... that would be 1:87.1 So one HO scale foot is 1 real foot divided by 87.1 which is 0.0115 real feet, or rephrased 1 HO scale foot = 0.0115 feet 1 HO scale foot = 0.0115*12 = 0.138 inches 1 HO scale inch = 0.138/12 = 0.0115 inches Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:06:55 -0500 From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:06:55 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:53:00 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Crestline-Bucyrus From: Frederick Ripley From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion Thanks Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:26:37 -0500 From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion Thanks Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:26:37 -0500 From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:37:49 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Mark, In real time to HO scale 1/8" or .0125 equals 1 HO foot. This would be fine except depdning if you print out a car builders dimension plan the plan is not to scale. This can be solved by buyin a scale rule, and equating a ratio to scale the drawing to be HO scale or full size if you so choose. I do this regularly at work as well as drawing up car sides in HO. -John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "Mark Taylor" wrote: List; I am building 2 BCW M70b's and I am wanting to double check the instruction measurements against car builder plan dimensions ( I want to get the right dimension for truck centers as well as the overall length over the couplers). Can anyone give my the conversion for HO scale against an inch /foot ruler. I need the decimal equivilent of an HO scale foot / inch, as an example say 0.250 is equal to 1.75 ft. in HO scale. I hope I am explaning this right. Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar ? FREE! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BillyDee53@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:57:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. If you have a metric ruler available, the scale is 3.5mm= 1 foot. Bill --part1_119.304d0284.2d8a3fe9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" If you have a metric ruler availabl= e, the scale is 3.5mm=3D 1 foot.  Bill --part1_119.304d0284.2d8a3fe9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:16:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John, In most parts of the world HO scale is 1:87.1, while 1/8 inch equals one foot is 1:96 (multiply 8 by 12 and you get 96), so anything constructed to 1/8"=1' is 10.2 percent undersized for HO scale! Hope you're not drawing up HO car and building plans using 1/8" scale. I model in N, so .075" equals one foot. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Frantz" To: Cc: "Mark Taylor" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. > Mark, > > In real time to HO scale 1/8" or .0125 equals 1 HO foot. > This would be fine except depdning if you print out a car > builders dimension plan the plan is not to scale. This can > be solved by buyin a scale rule, and equating a ratio to > scale the drawing to be HO scale or full size if you so > choose. I do this regularly at work as well as drawing up > car sides in HO. > > -John > > Designer, Modeler, Consultant > Mount Vernon Shops > Baltimore, MD > > Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. > > > "Mark Taylor" wrote: > List; I am building 2 BCW M70b's and I am wanting to > double check the instruction measurements against car > builder plan dimensions ( I want to get the right > dimension for truck centers as well as the overall length > over the couplers). Can anyone give my the conversion for > HO scale against an inch /foot ruler. I need the decimal > equivilent of an HO scale foot / inch, as an example say > 0.250 is equal to 1.75 ft. in HO scale. I hope I am > explaning this right. Mark > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar ? > FREE! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: hanel29@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] K4, M1, L1, etc at RRMPA Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:39:47 +0000 From: "bill pokorny" Subject: [PRR] Fw: [eastcoastrailfans] GG1 In Mt. Clare Yard Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:34:12 -0500 Thought this might be of interest to the=20 group. BillP AKA Locobil ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOCTOR REYNOLDS=20 To: = eastcoastrailfans@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:38 PM Subject: [eastcoastrailfans] GG1 In Mt. Clare Yard From: pcc7407@w...=20 Date: Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:58 am Subject: Re: GG1 In Mt. Clare Yard In respone to a mention of a GG1 in "Mt. Winans" yard on BaltimoreRailfans@y...: The GG1 is in Mt. Clare "A" Yard (Mt. Winans is the yard along the main tracks between Hollins Ferry Rd. and Gable Avenue), and is=20 a "crime in progress". This is number 4876 and is the engine that=20 crashed into and thru Union Station in Washington in 1953. It is now=20 derelict, rusting badly, and is used as a drug and vagrant hangout. >From what I understood many years ago, the original plan for this engine was for the B&O Museum to cosmetically restore it to its' 1953 appearance whereupon Amtrak was going to place it on number 16 track (the one it was on when it crashed thru) in Washington's Union=20 Station as a tribute to the Pennsylvania Railroad's GG1 hauled=20 passenger service. Severe Amtrak budget cutbacks brought about by Congress and changes=20 in plans for rebuilding Union Station scuttled this project and the=20 engine began its long downhill decline to the present state it is in. It has been sitting out in the open, unprotected in any way, for at least the last 20 years. For a while it was at least placed under the I-95 bridge, but CSX objected to the location of it, and all the=20 old equipment with it, and pushed it all to the far west end of A=20 Yard. So far as I know, everything on that track is owned by the B&O=20 Museum. It is a crime that this is happening, and would be an even=20 greater crime if it is allowed to either continue or if the engine=20 is finally scrapped. The B&O Museum once had its own GG1, #4890, but in one of the Museum's mood swings it was decided to dispose of anything that was=20 not C&O-B&O-WM related. Pity, because the GG1 one certainly a huge=20 part of Baltimore's railroad history, even if it did run on the=20 competition. The B&O Museum disposed of and scrapped several PRR MP54 MU cars as well, throwing away still more of Baltimore's railroad history. What a shame that people are so provincial that they feel just because it wasn't B&O that it wasn't worth saving. It was, and is Baltimore history, and should be saved at Baltimore's B&O Museum. (This posting is also being posted on the DelMarVaTraction and CSXPhillySub yahoogroups since there may be interested members there=20 who do not subscribe to BaltimoreRailfans.)=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eastcoastrailfans/ =20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = eastcoastrailfans-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C40C67.96D14B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thought this might be of interest to the
group. BillP AKA Locobil
----- Original = Message -----=20
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:38 PM
Subject: [eastcoastrailfans] GG1 In Mt. Clare = Yard

From:  pcc7407@w...
Date:  Wed Mar 10, = 2004 =20 9:58 am
Subject:  Re: GG1 In Mt. Clare Yard

In respone to = a=20 mention of a GG1 in "Mt. Winans" yard on
BaltimoreRailfans@y...:

Th= e GG1 is=20 in Mt. Clare "A" Yard (Mt. Winans is the yard along the
main tracks = between=20 Hollins Ferry Rd. and Gable Avenue), and is
a "crime in progress". = This is=20 number 4876 and is the engine that
crashed into and thru Union = Station in=20 Washington in 1953. It is now
derelict, rusting badly, and is used = as a drug=20 and vagrant hangout.
From what I understood many years ago, the = original plan=20 for this
engine was for the B&O Museum to cosmetically restore it = to its'=20 1953
appearance whereupon Amtrak was going to place it on number 16=20 track
(the one it was on when it crashed thru) in Washington's Union=20
Station as a tribute to the Pennsylvania Railroad's GG1 hauled =
passenger=20 service.

Severe Amtrak budget cutbacks brought about by Congress = and=20 changes
in plans for rebuilding Union Station scuttled this project = and the=20
engine began its long downhill decline to the present state it is = in.
It=20 has been sitting out in the open, unprotected in any way, for
at = least the=20 last 20 years. For a while it was at least placed under
the I-95 = bridge, but=20 CSX objected to the location of it, and all the
old equipment with = it, and=20 pushed it all to the far west end of A
Yard. So far as I know, = everything on=20 that track is owned by the B&O
Museum. It is a crime that this = is=20 happening, and would be an even
greater crime if it is allowed to = either=20 continue or if the engine
is finally scrapped.

The B&O = Museum=20 once had its own GG1, #4890, but in one of the
Museum's mood swings = it was=20 decided to dispose of anything that was
not C&O-B&O-WM = related.=20 Pity, because the GG1 one certainly a huge
part of Baltimore's = railroad=20 history, even if it did run on the
competition.

The B&O = Museum=20 disposed of and scrapped several PRR MP54 MU cars as
well, throwing = away=20 still more of Baltimore's railroad history.
What a shame that people = are so=20 provincial that they feel just
because it wasn't B&O that it = wasn't worth=20 saving. It was, and is
Baltimore history, and should be saved at = Baltimore's=20 B&O Museum.

(This posting is also being posted on the=20 DelMarVaTraction and
CSXPhillySub yahoogroups since there may be = interested=20 members there
who
do not subscribe to BaltimoreRailfans.)=20



Yahoo! Groups Links
  • To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.y= ahoo.com/group/eastcoastrailfans/
     =20
  • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    eastcoastrailfans-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     =20
  • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C40C67.96D14B40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:09:25 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Prototype Modelers Meet - Valley Forge Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:35:27 -0600 Dave asked: "What exactly goes on at these Prototype Modelers meets? I've never been = to one before. The Valley Forge (Phila.) meet will be my first one." A few other points to add to Greg's comments: Come with an open mind. If you go in with an attitude of "rivet = counters are ruining our hobby" and "I can never do anything like that," = you're completely missing the point and would be better off saving your = money by not coming. These meets are all about sharing information to = help you improve your modeling - don't get scared off by the amount of = information and the quality of the models.=20 A common complaint about these meets is "they didn't have anything on = <>" Clinic programs are directly dependent = on the willingness of volunteers to give them, so you might not find = exactly what you're looking for; however, if you're interested in a = specific era or facet of the hobby, BRING MODELS for the display room. = They'll help you to find others with like interests, which brings me = to... Talk to other people in the display room, even if they don't have the = same interests as you do. Generally, there aren't any contests, so it's = not like you're trying to hide something from the guy next to you to get = an edge in contest judging. As Greg said, "CHECK YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR." = While it's true that some meets are held to satisfy the ego of a = prominent modeler with a three-letter last name (which, by the way, = isn't "Hom"), this fortunately isn't the case for most Prototype = Modelers Meets. Remember, it's all about exchanging information. =20 Greg Martin asked: "Hey, Ben you going? Can you get us some digital shots of PRR items?" Both Al Buchan and I will be there, and we'll put those cameras to work. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C40C46.3C78A4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dave asked:
"What exactly=20 goes on at these Prototype Modelers meets? I've never been to one = before. The=20 Valley Forge (Phila.) meet will be my first one."
 
A few other points to add to = Greg's=20 comments:
Come with an open = mind.  If you=20 go in with an attitude of "rivet counters are ruining our hobby" and "I = can=20 never do anything like that," you're completely missing the point and = would be=20 better off saving your money by not coming.  These meets are all = about=20 sharing information to help you improve your modeling - don't = get=20 scared off by the amount of information and the quality of the models.=20
 
A common complaint about these = meets is=20 "they didn't have anything on <<fill in topic of=20 interest>>"  Clinic programs are directly dependent = on the=20 willingness of volunteers to give them, so you might not find exactly = what=20 you're looking for; however, if you're interested in a specific era = or=20 facet of the hobby, BRING MODELS for the display room.  = They'll help=20 you to find others with like interests, which brings me = to...
 
Talk to other people in the = display room,=20 even if they don't have the same interests as you=20 do.  Generally, there aren't any contests, so it's not like = you're=20 trying to hide something from the guy next to you to get an edge in = contest=20 judging.  As Greg said, "CHECK YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR."  = While it's=20 true that some meets are held to satisfy the ego of a prominent modeler = with a=20 three-letter last name (which, by the way, isn't "Hom"), this = fortunately isn't=20 the case for most Prototype Modelers Meets.   Remember, it's = all about=20 exchanging information.  
 
 
Greg Martin asked:
"Hey, Ben you=20 going? Can you get us some digital shots of PRR = items?"
 
Both Al Buchan=20 and I will be there, and we'll put those cameras to = work.
 
 
Ben=20 Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C40C46.3C78A4C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Rule Conversion. Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:50:23 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gregg, When it comes to doing a car side, I usually plot a side out at full size architectural "D" size sheet 36"x24" then measure the car using a scale rule. Say the dimension is marked 10'-0" but it measures 9'-0". Considering the fact that the dimension measures 9'-0" at 100% I use the ratio 9'-0"/100%=10'-0"/?% Then I scale it using the plot settings and replot it and check it to make sure its right. Usually it is. Ahh, the beauty of having plotters. -John Designer, Modeler, Consultant Mount Vernon Shops Baltimore, MD Specializing in HO & N scale for the Pennsy modeler. "Gregg Mahlkov" wrote: John, Hope you're not drawing up HO car and building plans using 1/8" scale. I model in N, so .075" equals one foot. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] A new GE through Warsaw, Indiana Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:49:23 -0500 On this date, the first recorded arrival of a U-25-C at Warsaw was made. = Engine No. 6501 lead AC-2 eastbound as it crossed the NYC diamonds at = 3:28 pm. Highball!! Ted ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C40C82.DB016500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

On = this date, the=20 first recorded arrival of a U-25-C at=20 Warsaw was made. Engine No. = 6501=20 lead AC-2 eastbound as it crossed the NYC diamonds at 3:28 pm.

 

Highball!!

 

Ted

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C40C82.DB016500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] A new GE through Warsaw, Indiana Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:49:23 -0500 On this date, the first recorded arrival of a U-25-C at Warsaw was made. = Engine No. 6501 lead AC-2 eastbound as it crossed the NYC diamonds at = 3:28 pm. Highball!! Ted ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C40C82.DB016500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

On = this date, the=20 first recorded arrival of a U-25-C at=20 Warsaw was made. Engine No. = 6501=20 lead AC-2 eastbound as it crossed the NYC diamonds at 3:28 pm.

 

Highball!!

 

Ted

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C40C82.DB016500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:19:54 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI Update, Deadlines & Atlas Deadline From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Public Service Announcement... This info came via FAX yesterday and is not yet posted to BLI's web site. It will be soon. BLI has revised their shipping schedule. (Surprise!) Note that "guaranteed reservation date" indicates the deadline for orders that they guarantee will be filled. Ordering after that date doesn't mean your order won't be filled. It just means it is no longer guaranteed. As of the "guaranteed reservation date" they set production quantites on a per road number basis, based on the quantity of dealer reservations plus a buffer. That said... E7's -- Now slated for late April and into May. M1 rerun -- Moved to May. H2a Hoppers -- Moved to May. J1 -- Still June, but guaranteed reservations close on March 24th!!! K7a Stock Cars -- July. Guaranteed reservation date "was" March 5th!!! NW2 and SW7's -- Bumped to July. ------------- On a similar note, the Atlas HO scale F-M H 24-66 TrainMaster with optional sound, with an ETA of September, has a guaranteed reservation date of March 24th. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] NF-6 Train Symbol Question Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:11:23 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] NF-6 From: Frederick Ripley Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR] NF-6 From: Frederick Ripley From: "Les Zody" Subject: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:31:43 -0800 Hi All, I have searched the archives and am not coming up with the thread I'm l= ooking for. Some time back there was a discussion of a type of glue that = was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I think someone from Caboos= e Hobby may have posted it or knew about the product. Any help would be g= reat. Ty for the help Les z ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C40CC3.71363330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
&nb= sp; I have searched the archives and am not coming up with the thread I'm= looking for. Some time back there was a discussion of a type of glue tha= t was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I think someone from Cabo= ose Hobby may have posted it or knew about the product. Any help would be= great.
         =     Ty for the help
    &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ; Les z
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C40CC3.71363330-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Les Zody" Subject: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:31:43 -0800 Hi All, I have searched the archives and am not coming up with the thread I'm l= ooking for. Some time back there was a discussion of a type of glue that = was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I think someone from Caboos= e Hobby may have posted it or knew about the product. Any help would be g= reat. Ty for the help Les z ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C40CC3.71363330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
&nb= sp; I have searched the archives and am not coming up with the thread I'm= looking for. Some time back there was a discussion of a type of glue tha= t was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I think someone from Cabo= ose Hobby may have posted it or knew about the product. Any help would be= great.
         =     Ty for the help
    &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ; Les z
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C40CC3.71363330-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:18:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:24:28 -0500 From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] NF-6 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 3/18/2004 10:35:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, fjr@mchsi.com writes: > > > Ted writes, about NF-6: > > > 1. What was the eastern terminus of this train? > > 2. How was it different from FW-8, a conventional live stock train? > > 3. What did Non-Feed mean? > > From previous posts (Bill Volkmer I think), I had the eastern terminus of > this train as Waverly, NJ. I am assuming that the "Feed-Water" monicker of > FW-8 meant that this train stopped to feed the livestock at some point (not > sure where). "Non-Feed" meant the idea was to get the train over the road > in less than 36 hours, which was the federal time limit for which livestock > could be carried without being fed/watered. > > Interesting it didn't run after April- it stays in ETT's for the following > years, and by 1967 in the Western Region ETT is allowed to operate at 60 > mph, like other hotshots. I wonder if it's operation was somewhat seasonal? > > Fred > > NF-6 picked up cars in Fort Wayne and ran through to Harrisburg where it dropped cars. Additional cars were dropped at Lancaster, Philadelphia, Waverly, Meadows and terminated at Harsimus Cove. Total time alloted was 29 hours with a maximum of 85 cars in the train. See http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/nf6_1960.html FW-8 unloaded livestock at Herr's Island in Pittsburgh for rest, feed and water. It added cars at Ft. Wayne. Dropped cars at Crestline, Massillon, Canton, Conway (non-livestock), Pittsburgh Stock yards, Altoona, Enola, Philadelphia, Waverly and terminated at Meadows. In addition to livestock this train carried perishables and TOFC. See http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Frtsched/fw8_1960.html Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Pete Reinhold" Subject: [PRR] Model Railroad Show--La Crosse WI--This weekend Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:43:26 -0600 Just a reminder to folks in this part of the world. Layouts, vendors and model railroaders, how much better can it get?? 10-6 Saturday and 10-4 Sunday. Downtown at the LaCrosse Center (2nd and Pearl). Pete Reinhold ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C40CFF.C2752F30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Just a reminder to folks in = this part of the world. Layouts, vendors and model railroaders, how much better can it get??  10-6 = Saturday and 10-4 Sunday. Downtown at the = LaCrosse Center<= /st1:PlaceType> (2nd and = Pearl).

 

Pete Reinhold

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C40CFF.C2752F30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:07:03 -0600 From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" I've seen demonstrations of this new glue. The one very real advantage = over conventional ACC is its shear strength. ACC has excellent tensile = strength, but only so-so shear strength. The glue is also impact = resistant. I threw two metal screws which were glued together on a = concrete floor, and I could not break the bond. -----Original Message----- From: STEPHEN HOXIE [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:55 AM To: prrtalk Subject: Re: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Les--I think you want Cyanopoxy. See http://www.mrhobby.com/ for more. Pricey but great stuff! =20 Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Les Zody =20 To: prrtalk =20 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:31 AM Subject: [PRR] cement (resin glue) Hi All, I have searched the archives and am not coming up with the thread I'm = looking for. Some time back there was a discussion of a type of glue = that was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I think someone from = Caboose Hobby may have posted it or knew about the product. Any help = would be great. Ty for the help Les z ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40D35.581ED72B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've seen = demonstrations=20 of this new glue.  The one very real advantage over conventional = ACC is its=20 shear strength.  ACC has excellent tensile strength, but only so-so = shear=20 strength.  The glue is also impact resistant.  I threw two = metal=20 screws which were glued together on a concrete floor, and I could not = break the=20 bond.
-----Original Message-----
From: STEPHEN HOXIE = [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, = 2004=20 10:55 AM
To: prrtalk
Subject: Re: [PRR] cement = (resin=20 glue)

Les--I think you want Cyanopoxy.  = See
http://www.mrhobby.com/  for = more.  Pricey but great = stuff!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Les = Zody=20
To: prrtalk
Sent: Thursday, March 18, = 2004 10:31=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] cement (resin=20 glue)

Hi All,
  I have searched the archives and am not = coming up=20 with the thread I'm looking for. Some time back there was a = discussion of a=20 type of glue that was said to be better than acc on resin kits. I = think=20 someone from Caboose Hobby may have posted it or knew about the = product. Any=20 help would be great.
=
           &n= bsp;=20 Ty for the help
=
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     =20 Les z
------_=_NextPart_001_01C40D35.581ED72B-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: That tunnel at Oil City Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:49:25 -0500 Yes there were lots of pipelines, not sure that they piped the crude = directly to the refinery. I can't say much for sure about the 50's, but = some of the business in the area during the 60's to 80's I can think of = quickly, would be.... Continental Can, J&L Steel, Pennzoil of course = plus other companies between Oil City and Rouseville, just north of Oil = City, one that pressure treated wood products, there was also Oil City = Glass, not sure if they used the PRR. , Manion barrel, scrap dealers, = Oilwell supply , a USS company (I think) in Siverly.. on the Allegheny = just upstream of Oil City, near the wye bridge, north side of the river, = line there used to extend to Warren. Also Worthington near Petroleum = Street Bridge on the banks of the river, also North side. =20 There are other products that came out of the Pennzip facility on rail, = namely wax, lots of National wax tank cars loaded there. =20 Just a note the company I work for has a large plant in Franklin, we = have photos somewhere of our equipment loaded on NYC flatcars, which ran = down Buffalo street. =20 I can remember the other end of the tunnel before the intersection of = Holiday Run Road and Rt 8 was changed. There was a bridge over the NYC = at the tunnel entrance, then the rail line crossed Rt 8 at an angle, my = Dad used to visit a feed store near that intersection. =20 I think the NYC had a turntable in Oil City in the area of the bridge = over Oil Creek, known as White Bridge, I think there may still be rail = near that area, behind the auto parts store. At least I recall it being = there fairly recently. A gentlemen that owned a hobby shop in Oil = City for years was a friend of mine, he tells me there were three = turntables in Oil City at one time, the PRR on the south side near the = Wye bridge, now where the power in town is parked, the Erie somewhere on = the North side near the steel plant, the NYC table I mentioned. =20 best regards, David Campbell Norton, VA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CENTGA@aol.com=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: That tunnel at Oil City So Oil City had service from the Erie, NYC, and of course the PRR. = During my trip there I didn't see much in the way of shippers. I'm sure = it was larger in it's day. My question is didn't pipelines carry much of = the oil from an early time? What and how much business would the = railroads have had there in say the 50's? Todd Horton ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C40D3B.430D4070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes there were lots of = pipelines, not=20 sure that they piped the crude directly to the refinery.  I = can't say=20 much for sure about the 50's, but some of the business in the = area=20 during the 60's to 80's I can think of quickly, would be.... =20 Continental Can, J&L Steel, Pennzoil of course plus other companies = between=20 Oil City and Rouseville, just north of Oil City, one that pressure = treated wood=20 products, there was also Oil City Glass, not sure if = they used the=20 PRR. , Manion barrel, scrap dealers, Oilwell supply , a USS company = (I=20 think) in Siverly..  on the Allegheny just upstream of Oil = City, near=20 the wye bridge, north side of the river, line there used to extend to = Warren.=20  Also Worthington near Petroleum Street Bridge on the banks of the = river,=20 also North side. 
 
There are other products that came = out of the=20 Pennzip facility on rail, namely wax, lots of National wax tank cars = loaded=20 there.   
 
Just a note the company I = work for has a large plant in Franklin, we have photos somewhere of = our=20 equipment loaded on NYC flatcars, which ran down Buffalo street.=20  
 
I can remember the = other end of=20 the tunnel before the intersection of Holiday Run Road and Rt 8 was=20 changed.  There was a bridge over the NYC at the tunnel = entrance,=20 then the rail line crossed Rt 8 at an angle, my Dad used to = visit a=20 feed store near that intersection.  
 
I think the NYC had a = turntable in=20 Oil City in the area of the bridge over Oil Creek, known as White = Bridge, I=20 think there  may still be rail near that area, behind the auto = parts=20 store.  At least I recall it being there fairly=20 recently.    A gentlemen that owned a hobby shop in Oil = City for=20 years was a friend of mine,  he tells me there were three = turntables in Oil=20 City at one time, the PRR on the south side near the Wye bridge, = now where=20 the power in town is parked, the Erie somewhere on the North=20 side near the steel plant, the NYC table I mentioned.  =
 
best = regards,
 
David = Campbell
Norton, = VA
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 CENTGA@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 = 9:56=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Re: That tunnel = at Oil=20 City

So Oil City=20 had service from the Erie, NYC, and of course the PRR. During my trip = there I=20 didn't see much in the way of shippers. I'm sure it was larger in it's = day. My=20 question is didn't pipelines carry much of the oil from an early time? = What=20 and how much business would the railroads have had there in say the = 50's? Todd=20 Horton ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C40D3B.430D4070-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:12:21 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: That tunnel at Oil City In a message dated 3/18/04 11:02:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, southern@bellatlantic.net writes: > There are other products that came out of the Pennzip facility on rail, > namely wax, lots of National wax tank cars loaded there. > I don't think I've ever seen a photo of one of these cars. Know of any on line? Todd --part1_1d2.1c74abb1.2d8bcd25_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a me= ssage dated 3/18/04 11:02:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, southern@bellatlantic= .net writes:


There are other products that c= ame out of the Pennzip facility on rail, namely wax, lots of National wax ta= nk cars loaded there.  


I don't think I've ever seen a photo of one of these cars. Know of any on li= ne? Todd --part1_1d2.1c74abb1.2d8bcd25_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] A somber entry at Warsaw, August 17, 1965 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:07:15 -0500 The following was written at the bottom of the CT 355-A tower sheet for = August 17, 1965: "TT-2 - Hit woman standing on track 1-block west of Union St. at 1:38 = am. Engineer said appeared as though she committed suicide. Coroner = released train 2:30 am. Police wanted Red East and West account parts of = her body scattered on No. 1 & 2. Clear East & West 2:48 am by Chief of = Police. Woman's name (with held) age 46." While we consider trains as a hobby, it is events like this that shake = this hobby into reality. Not only did railroading have a dangerous = working environment but it had more than its share of personal = tragedies. Ted ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40D46.23127320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
The following was written at the bottom of the CT 355-A tower sheet = for=20 August 17, 1965:
 

"TT-2  - Hit woman standing on track = 1-block=20 west of Union St. at = 1:38 am. Engineer said = appeared as=20 though she committed suicide. Coroner released train 2:30 am. Police = wanted Red=20 East and West account parts of her body scattered on No. 1 & 2. = Clear East=20 & West 2:48 am by Chief of Police. Woman=92s name (with held) age = 46."

 

 

While we consider = trains as a=20 hobby, it is events like this that shake this hobby into reality. = Not=20 only did railroading have a dangerous working = environment=20 but it had more than its share of personal tragedies.

 

Ted

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C40D46.23127320-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:11:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman Book From: Jamie Bothwell Message-Id: <826378C4-799E-11D8-B970-000393A994E0@verizon.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [141.158.51.210] at Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:09:53 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, I spotted a copy of "The Pullman Library Vol. 4" on eBay this morning. It was at $65 when I was there. I know this title has come up on this list before. I offer this as a public service announcement. I have no connection to the seller. Jamie Bothwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Wilen Brothers Co. in N. Philadelphia Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:09:53 +0000 From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Wilen Brothers Co. in N. Philadelphia Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:09:53 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilen Brothers Co. in N. Philadelphia Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:52:16 +0000 From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Industries near Oil City Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:54:26 -0500 In the late ''40's early '50's there were still lots of refineries = shipping petroleum products by rail in the area. There were lots of = other industries in the area also. I lived in Franklin until 1950. I = remember Pennzoil and Wolfs Head in Oil City. Was Quaker State also = located there? Franklin, just up the Allegheny River, was served by = Erie and NYC branches. The PRR was across the river, not sure it served = many (any?) industries in Franklin. =20 On the NYC in town was a large freight station and Brown's Boiler Works. = The tracks ran down the middle of Buffalo St. from the small yard below = 11th St. to around First St. to Joy Manufacturing which made coal mining = equipment - large automatic miners, etc. They are still in business, = but not sure whether they still have a factory in Franklin. Near the = freight station was a brick passenger station, converted to a restaurant = last time I was in Franklin (around 15 years ago). =20 Across town the Erie branch served the Chicago Pneumatic Tool Company, a = large factory many blocks long which manufactured air compressors and = other large pneumatic equipment. Alas, railroads are all gone now. As a lad growing up in the '40's, = however, I spend many a summer day "down by the station & tracks." Must = be where I went a-stray! Bill Bigler - 4915 Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo & Williamsport WWII ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C40DA0.8C160BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
In the late ''40's early '50's there were still = lots of=20 refineries shipping petroleum products by rail in the area.  There = were=20 lots of other industries in the area also.  I lived in Franklin = until=20 1950.  I remember Pennzoil and Wolfs Head in Oil City.  Was = Quaker=20 State also located there?  Franklin, just up the Allegheny River, = was=20 served by Erie and NYC branches.  The PRR was across the river, not = sure it=20 served many (any?) industries in Franklin. 
 
On the NYC in town was a large freight station = and Brown's=20 Boiler Works.  The tracks ran down the middle of Buffalo St. from = the small=20 yard below 11th St. to around First St. to Joy Manufacturing which made = coal=20 mining equipment - large automatic miners, etc.  They are still in=20 business, but not sure whether they still have a factory in = Franklin.  Near=20 the freight station was a brick passenger station, converted to a = restaurant=20 last time I was in Franklin (around 15 years ago). 
 
Across town the Erie branch served the Chicago = Pneumatic=20 Tool Company, a large factory many blocks long which manufactured air=20 compressors and other large pneumatic equipment.
 
Alas, railroads are all gone now.  As a lad = growing=20 up in the '40's, however, I spend many a summer day "down by the station = &=20 tracks."  Must be where I went a-stray!
 
Bill Bigler - 4915
Big Flats NY
Modeling = PRR Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport WWII
 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C40DA0.8C160BC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:47 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Kennedy Airport to Penn Station From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:47 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Kennedy Airport to Penn Station Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:04:08 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilen Brothers Co. in N. Philadelphia Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:07:14 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Industries in Oil City area Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:07:14 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Industries in Oil City area Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:02:35 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilen Brothers Co. in N. Philadelphia Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have about 15 Thomas tank cars. All have solid frames. Very rare to see a Thomas tank car with any bad metal. Garry Spear robert netzlof wrote: > --- b.hom@att.net wrote: > >>Gregg Mahlkov wrote: >>Thomas used to sell a six compartment car in HO years ago. I still >>have it but the frame was Zamac and broke. >> >>More recently, AHM offered a six-dome wine tank car in HO. >>Unfortunately, the model is about 2x the capacity of the prototype; >>however, it's readily availble at swap meets if you can live with >>the size problem. You'll probably need to strip and repaint as AHM >>offered many more bogus schemes (including DuPont and Penn Salt!) >>than wine company schemes. > > > As I recall, one wine scheme, silver with red "ROMA WINE" outlined in > black. > > Better yet, the shell can be easily mounted on the underframe and > bottom sheet of an Athearn 40' tank car, giving much better running > gear and draft gear. > > >>The Thomas model is much closer to scale size, though it's long out >>of production and a bit tough to find. > > > They do show up now and again on eBay. I've always been a bit fearful > of them as they date from the era when "zinc disease" was rather > common. They generally don't sell cheap either. > > The AHM cars also appear there from time to time, at a variey of > prices. It seems to me the wine scheme tends to be a bit less costly > than the completely bogus oil, salt, latex, and sulphur schemes. > > Nice to hear that such odd beasts did operate now and again in the East. > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harry Fitch" Subject: [PRR] Wine cars - modern shipments Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 03:09:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Return-Path: prrk4s@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2004 08:09:36.0227 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF2CC330:01C40E52] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wine cars - modern shipments Modern era shipment of wine still happened in the Baltimore area as of a few years ago and may still be happening at the Seagram's facility in Halethorpe. (Formerly Calvert Whiskey) The tank cars are nondescript for a very good reason. No real interesting markings at all. Apparently the threat of unauthorized imbibing is still present with us. Harry Fitch prrk4s@msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:03:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Layouts I will be in Reading and Harrisburg, Pa. this week. Are there any layouts in these areas that are open to visitors during their work or ops sessions? Many thanks, Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1079784189 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I will be in Reading and Harrisburg, Pa. this week.  Are there any= layouts in these areas that are open to visitors during their work or ops s= essions?
 
Many thanks,

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1079784189-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:14:56 EST Subject: [PRR] Wine Cars That isn't imbibing on the job, it is insuring the product does not become tainted in transport. ;^) When I worked on the Reading, it wasn't too uncommon to find cars coming out of the Hershey's plant at Hershey, Pa. had been broken into with a box or two of goodies missing. On one occasion the crew was caught red handed but there was no action taken as the union could not be contacted within the required four hours for a complaint to be filed. It was later learned that the union was tipped off to the misconduct then became scarce so they could not be contacted. The railroad had to pay for the lost candy. Ain't life grand!? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1079784896 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  That isn't imbibing on the job, it is insuring the product does=20= not become tainted in transport.  ;^) 
 
   When I worked on the Reading, it wasn't too uncommon to fi= nd cars coming out of the Hershey's plant at Hershey, Pa. had been broken in= to with a box or two of goodies missing.  On one occasion the crew was=20= caught red handed but there was no action taken as the union could not be co= ntacted within the required four hours for a complaint to be filed= .  It was later learned that the union was tipped off to the misconduct= then became scarce so they could not be contacted.  The railroad had t= o pay for the lost candy.  Ain't life grand!?

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1079784896-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:09:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Bell on B1 electric MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello list members, Is the bell on a B1 electric a "hand pulled" or a mechanical bell? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:38:17 GMT Subject: [PRR] MTH Milk Train From: Dominic Mazoch X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:38:17 GMT Subject: [PRR] MTH Milk Train From: Dominic Mazoch From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:09:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Bell on B1 electric Hello list members, Is the bell on a B1 electric a "hand pulled" or a mechanical bell? Thanks in advance. Dave Hopson "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRR/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:49:15 -0600 Subject: [PRR] RE: Wilen Brothers in N. Philadelphia From: John Sheets From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Late August Round up at Warsaw..... Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:46:33 +0000 From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: [PRR] test Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:21:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out014.verizon.net from [151.199.98.250] at Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:21:32 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: test ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Bowser N8's in HO Scale Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:33:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.612) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Yes, it's early, but Lee English notified me this morning that the HO scale N8's will start shipping to dealers today. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:25:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Form 76, 1884 Edition, Posted From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <01471CC0-7CD6-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks to James Foley, I just posted to the Documents section of Keystone Crossings the 1884 edition of the Form 76, which is the equivalent of the CT1000. The original that was scanned was in remarkably good condition. You can find the file at... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ The file is 7.5 MB in size, so if you early modelers all jump at once your download will crawl! Try again later if you cannot get it now in a reasonable time. I've got a lot of exciting PDF's coming over the next two weeks. A bunch of track charts and a passenger consist book from 1964. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:25:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Form 76, 1884 Edition, Posted From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <01471CC0-7CD6-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Thanks to James Foley, I just posted to the Documents section of Keystone Crossings the 1884 edition of the Form 76, which is the equivalent of the CT1000. The original that was scanned was in remarkably good condition. You can find the file at... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ The file is 7.5 MB in size, so if you early modelers all jump at once your download will crawl! Try again later if you cannot get it now in a reasonable time. I've got a lot of exciting PDF's coming over the next two weeks. A bunch of track charts and a passenger consist book from 1964. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charlie" Subject: [PRR] E-7 Antenna Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:14:22 -0500 To the list, perhaps another rerun of months past, however I would like to know if the PRR E-7's always had train phone antenna on all of the "A" Units? Thanks in advance. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C410BF.9D1F5210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

To the list, perhaps = another rerun of months past, however I would like to know if the PRR E-7’s always = had train phone antenna on all of the “A” Units?  Thanks in = advance.

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C410BF.9D1F5210-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Message-Id: <19674D9A-7CEA-11D8-AC6A-000393C92AF2@arclyte.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: prr-talk@dsop.com From: Alex Charyna Subject: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:49:49 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Listers, I've seen mentions of Men's Waiting Rooms and Women's Waiting Rooms in some stations (Spring City in this case, but I've seen it elsewhere). As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female rooms. Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? -alex ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] ATT: Steve Sejda Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:52:03 -0500 Pictures will be mailed on 3-25-04 Lee ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C410CD.429AD540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Pictures will be mailed on 3-25-04
 
 
Lee
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C410CD.429AD540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:22:36 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Alex, Society had different attitudes then. First, young unmarried men and women were not found in mixed company unless they had been introduced by a family member, so a woman or girl traveling alone would have felt very embarrassed in a gneral waiting room with a bunch of strange men. In addition, many men used chewing tobacco and there were spitoons in the men;'s waiting room. Women found this as ugly a habit back then as they do now. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Charyna" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms > Listers, > I've seen mentions of Men's Waiting Rooms and Women's Waiting Rooms in > some stations (Spring City in this case, but I've seen it elsewhere). > As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not > been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female > rooms. > Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? > -alex > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:29:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Track Chart Additions From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0BBFD900-7CF8-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Eight more track charts have been added to the Maps section of Keystone Crossings. There are from the Northern Division, Pittsburgh Division, Conemaugh Division, and Pittsburgh Region. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/ Thanks to Randy Williamson for the loan of the originals. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:29:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Track Chart Additions From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <0BBFD900-7CF8-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Eight more track charts have been added to the Maps section of Keystone Crossings. There are from the Northern Division, Pittsburgh Division, Conemaugh Division, and Pittsburgh Region. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/ Thanks to Randy Williamson for the loan of the originals. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:48:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Pot Yard ETT From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Another neat one from James Foley... in the Docs section of Keystone Crossings... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ett.html "Eastern Region, Southern Division, Maryland Division, Washington Yard, Timetable #7", June 24, 1945. For the government of employes of the Baltimore and Ohio RR, the Chesapeake and Ohio RR, the Pennsylvania RR, the Richmond Fredericksburg and Potomac RR, and the Southern Railway for Operating Trains Between Anacostia and South End. Also includes "Special Instructions for the Government of Employes of Potomac Yard" for the same railroads. For those of you modeling the south end of the system, this file's for you! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:14:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Caboose to Get New Home From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <4F100C8B-7CFE-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Caboose to get new home E. Pennsboro hopes to use car to honor Enola Yards Tuesday, March 23, 2004 BY PHYLLIS ZIMMERMAN For The Patriot-News West Hanover Twp.'s caboose will soon be honoring the historic Enola Railroad Yards at its new home in East Pennsboro Twp. That represents a detour from a proposal that would have moved the caboose to the Lykens Railroad Station. After months of considerations by officials, the vintage Pennsylvania Railroad car has seen a lot of mileage -- and it hasn't left the yard of the West Hanover Twp. municipal building. West Hanover Twp. supervisors voted unanimously last week to donate the caboose in response to a proposal submitted by East Pennsboro Twp. Manager Robert Gill. East Pennsboro commissioners agreed to make the offer March 3. East Pennsboro officials plan to place the 1942 railroad car in Adams-Ricci Community Park at Margo Road and East Penn Drive. "When you really boil it down, this is the kind of project we were hoping to get. This is the perfect ending for this long saga," said West Hanover Supervisor Robert Ziltz. West Hanover Twp. has owned the caboose for more than a decade, but has sought to move it for months. Although West Hanover officials had hoped to rent out the caboose for festive events such as children's birthday parties, those plans never really took off, officials said. East Pennsboro recently acquired an additional 42 acres for the Adams-Ricci Community Park, expanding it to a spacious 120-plus acres, including baseball and soccer fields, and tennis, volleyball and basketball courts. The Historical Society of East Pennsboro Twp., in conjunction with township officials, is planning a 100th anniversary celebration of the Enola Railroad Yards in 2005. The facility opened in 1905 and utilized up to 67 tracks on 375 acres at its peak, remaining the township's largest employer until the 1950s. "The caboose would be a great attraction to our festivities. We are a very proud community, and the railroad is a symbol of our heritage these last 100 years," said Herb Kruger, president of the historical society. In January, Edward Carney, chairman of the Dauphin County Planning Commission, asked West Hanover supervisors to grant rights to the caboose to Lykens Railroad Station. The historic station is being renovated into a rail museum with a nearby trail, a project overseen by the Dauphin County Parks and Recreation department. Although West Hanover officials said they were enthusiastic about Carney's proposal, it never officially was endorsed by Dauphin County Commissioners -- and therefore lacked county funding -- by the township's March 12 bid deadline. West Hanover Twp. Manager Michael Rimer said he contacted the county several times over the winter regarding the caboose. "The county was not interested in acquiring a caboose," he said. The township also received an offer March 8 from the Lykens Chamber of Commerce to "relocate the caboose in a very timely manner" to the Lykens Train Station. County commissioners notified West Hanover in a March 12 fax that they were endorsing "Lykens in its quest to obtain [the] caboose." West Hanover supervisors said their first choice had been to donate the caboose to a municipality. East Pennsboro plans to move the caboose to its new site by July. West Hanover bought the car in 1993 for $13,910. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:14:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Caboose to Get New Home From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <4F100C8B-7CFE-11D8-B6EA-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Caboose to get new home E. Pennsboro hopes to use car to honor Enola Yards Tuesday, March 23, 2004 BY PHYLLIS ZIMMERMAN For The Patriot-News West Hanover Twp.'s caboose will soon be honoring the historic Enola Railroad Yards at its new home in East Pennsboro Twp. That represents a detour from a proposal that would have moved the caboose to the Lykens Railroad Station. After months of considerations by officials, the vintage Pennsylvania Railroad car has seen a lot of mileage -- and it hasn't left the yard of the West Hanover Twp. municipal building. West Hanover Twp. supervisors voted unanimously last week to donate the caboose in response to a proposal submitted by East Pennsboro Twp. Manager Robert Gill. East Pennsboro commissioners agreed to make the offer March 3. East Pennsboro officials plan to place the 1942 railroad car in Adams-Ricci Community Park at Margo Road and East Penn Drive. "When you really boil it down, this is the kind of project we were hoping to get. This is the perfect ending for this long saga," said West Hanover Supervisor Robert Ziltz. West Hanover Twp. has owned the caboose for more than a decade, but has sought to move it for months. Although West Hanover officials had hoped to rent out the caboose for festive events such as children's birthday parties, those plans never really took off, officials said. East Pennsboro recently acquired an additional 42 acres for the Adams-Ricci Community Park, expanding it to a spacious 120-plus acres, including baseball and soccer fields, and tennis, volleyball and basketball courts. The Historical Society of East Pennsboro Twp., in conjunction with township officials, is planning a 100th anniversary celebration of the Enola Railroad Yards in 2005. The facility opened in 1905 and utilized up to 67 tracks on 375 acres at its peak, remaining the township's largest employer until the 1950s. "The caboose would be a great attraction to our festivities. We are a very proud community, and the railroad is a symbol of our heritage these last 100 years," said Herb Kruger, president of the historical society. In January, Edward Carney, chairman of the Dauphin County Planning Commission, asked West Hanover supervisors to grant rights to the caboose to Lykens Railroad Station. The historic station is being renovated into a rail museum with a nearby trail, a project overseen by the Dauphin County Parks and Recreation department. Although West Hanover officials said they were enthusiastic about Carney's proposal, it never officially was endorsed by Dauphin County Commissioners -- and therefore lacked county funding -- by the township's March 12 bid deadline. West Hanover Twp. Manager Michael Rimer said he contacted the county several times over the winter regarding the caboose. "The county was not interested in acquiring a caboose," he said. The township also received an offer March 8 from the Lykens Chamber of Commerce to "relocate the caboose in a very timely manner" to the Lykens Train Station. County commissioners notified West Hanover in a March 12 fax that they were endorsing "Lykens in its quest to obtain [the] caboose." West Hanover supervisors said their first choice had been to donate the caboose to a municipality. East Pennsboro plans to move the caboose to its new site by July. West Hanover bought the car in 1993 for $13,910. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:02:04 -0500 From: Ike Subject: Re: [PRR] Caboose to Get New Home X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.41 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Crap! I was hoping this would take off in Lykens and give me something local to get involved in... I hope they don't drop the ball on the station museum as well.. As an aside- the station in Elizabethville on the Lykens branch is still in use as well.. Just painted a hideous color. Jerry Britton wrote: > Caboose to get new home > E. Pennsboro hopes to use car to honor Enola Yards > > Tuesday, March 23, 2004 > > BY PHYLLIS ZIMMERMAN > For The Patriot-News > > West Hanover Twp.'s caboose will soon be honoring the historic Enola > Railroad Yards at its new home in East Pennsboro Twp. > -- Yours, Troy Troy M. Snyder 9342 RT 209 Williamstown,PA 17098 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:25:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms From: "Frederic H. Abendschein" > From: "Alex Charyna" > Subject: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:57:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, alex@arclyte.com writes: > As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not > been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female > rooms. > Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? > Same reason that there were "ladies' cars" and "smokers" on trains of that era. Men were uncouth beings who smoked, spat and perhaps indulged in bad language. This practice did not end in the 1880s. In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a Pennsy passenger train home from college on a regular basis. When I boarded, the conductor always directed me to the car on the left (there were only two in the train by that time, excluding baggage, mail and express). It was always unpleasant, hot and reeking with smoke. One day I perversely turned into the car on the right (remember, this was the 60s and youth was rebellious.) It was free of smoke, cool and pleasant. But the conductor obviously assumed no man would want to be in such a car. Lee Rainey --part1_31.459974cd.2d9236e8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:= 31 AM Eastern Standard Time, alex@arclyte.com writes:


As the stations were built in t= he mid to late 1800s, I would have not
been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female
rooms.
Why would there have been separate waiting rooms?


Same reason that there were "ladies' cars" and "smokers" on trains of that e= ra. Men were uncouth beings who smoked, spat and perhaps indulged in bad lan= guage.

This practice did not end in the 1880s.

In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a Pennsy passenger train home from=20= college on a regular basis. When I boarded, the conductor always directed me= to the car on the left (there were only two in the train by that time, excl= uding baggage, mail and express). It was always unpleasant, hot and reeking=20= with smoke. One day I perversely turned into the car on the right (remember,= this was the 60s and youth was rebellious.) It was free of smoke, cool and=20= pleasant. But the conductor obviously assumed no man would want to be in suc= h a car.

Lee Rainey --part1_31.459974cd.2d9236e8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:05:04 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Women were considered delicate creatures and this protected the more sheltered of them from the wide range of male humanity during their travels and, as pointed out, cigars, chewing tobacco, etc. Another example: in the old hotel at Pullman, Illinois, the women had a private parlor which they could access by using the back stairs from their room so they didn't even have to traverse the lobby. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Charyna" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:49 AM Subject: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms > Listers, > I've seen mentions of Men's Waiting Rooms and Women's Waiting Rooms in > some stations (Spring City in this case, but I've seen it elsewhere). > As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not > been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female > rooms. > Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? > -alex > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:48:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N Scale PRR "Texas Eagle" Cars Introduced From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <83450E64-7D91-11D8-9D27-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Marshall Shops, known for their SP "Daylight" and MP "Texas Eagle" passenger car sides, has returned to the market after a year of absence. And with their return they are releasing ACF Plan 9008 10-6 sleepers....those used by the PRR in interchange service on the "Penn Texas". These are laser cut Lexan sides, with paint masks and decals, designed to fit American Limited core kits. As of 1954, the following four "spots" on the Pennsy's "Penn Texas" were filled as follows: New York to El Paso (14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) "Eagle City" (T&P), "Eagle Beach" (T&P), "Eagle Summit" (MP), "Eagle Chain" (MP), or "Eagle Path" (T&P). New York to San Antonio (ACF 10-6, Plan 9008) "Eagle Charm", "Eagle Bluff", "Eagle Chief", or "Eagle Beam". New York to Houston (ACF 10-6, Plan 9008) "Eagle Grand", "Eagle Eye", "Eagle Cove" or "Eagle Head" Washington to St. Louis-Houston "Eagle Oak" (PRR, ACF 10-6, Plan 9008), "Elk River" (MP), "Crystal River" (MP), or "Roaming River" (MP). (The MP cars were Budd built and are not available at this time.) These sides will be available shortly. You can view a photo of the PRR 10-6 at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/ms_ar.html and scroll down to "Due in April". This is a poor quality pic and I hope to have a better one in about three weeks. Samples of these cars (completed) will be on display at the PRRT&HS annual meeting in late April. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] MAJOR Announcement - Pennsy S Models S Scale Brass X29 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:46:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Today is a very special day for me. Both of my websites have been updated. But first, here is the BIG news. I have been waiting for over 7 years to make this announcement. We have received another REA pilot model from my builder on Monday. It is VERY good. I have approved it to finally START PRODUCTION of the Railway Express version. After almost 4 years with my current builder, a few pilot models, and hundreds of hours and emails, we have arrived. I am getting the exact model that I have wanted since its inception, without ONE compromise to details. I have not seen all of them on ANY brass model in any scale before. It features punched rivets, prototypical draft gear, stainless steel wheels and stainless steel pointed axles, and a full functioning coil and leaf spring package. Most of the castings were cast in America from American made master patterns. If you want a REA version, the time to act is NOW. We are locking in the final production quantity in about 2 weeks. Once the REA version is completed and ships to us, the price will increase to at least $300.00. We have held the 3-year-old price to $250.00 in spite of extreme cost overruns. The freight versions that include B & O and NYC will follow later this year. We will have production REA cars at the NASG convention in July. Please see the Pennsy S Models website below for new photos of the car and a link to download the PDF order form. I have also updated my Lanes Trains website with new photos of my models. I have also added an HO section with more HO pieces being completed next week. I am taking in new models for painting as well. Please contact me directly. Thank You, Bill Lane Custom Brass Painting http://www.lanestrains.com Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale http://www.pennsysmodels.com Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:06:31 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/24/04 Re: Mens'/ womens' waiting rooms. In the 1800s it would not have been "proper" for a unattended woman to be alone with one or more men? John Liebeskind -------------------------------1080137191 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Re: Mens'/ womens' waiting rooms.
In the 1800s it would not have been "proper" for a  unattended wom= an to be alone with one or more men?
John Liebeskind
-------------------------------1080137191-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MLiebeskin@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:10:39 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/24/04 Disregard last mesage since I have scrolled down and seen someone has already provided a better answer. J. -------------------------------1080137439 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Disregard last mesage since I have scrolled down and seen someone has alr= eady provided a better answer. J. -------------------------------1080137439-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: RE: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:07:30 -0600 From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Segregation of the sexes in public buildings still exists in certain parts of the world. The Saudi Arabian airports I have flown into and out of always have separate waiting sections for women, who are veiled, and men.=20 -----Original Message----- From: LeeRainey@aol.com [mailto:LeeRainey@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:57 PM To: alex@arclyte.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, alex@arclyte.com writes: As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not=20 been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female=20 rooms. Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? Same reason that there were "ladies' cars" and "smokers" on trains of that era. Men were uncouth beings who smoked, spat and perhaps indulged in bad language. This practice did not end in the 1880s. In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a Pennsy passenger train home from college on a regular basis. When I boarded, the conductor always directed me to the car on the left (there were only two in the train by that time, excluding baggage, mail and express). It was always unpleasant, hot and reeking with smoke. One day I perversely turned into the car on the right (remember, this was the 60s and youth was rebellious.) It was free of smoke, cool and pleasant. But the conductor obviously assumed no man would want to be in such a car. Lee Rainey=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C411B1.BA0232AC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Segregation of the sexes in public buildings = still=20 exists in certain parts of the world.  The Saudi Arabian = airports I=20 have flown into and out of always have separate waiting sections = for women,=20 who are veiled, and men.
-----Original Message-----
From: LeeRainey@aol.com=20 [mailto:LeeRainey@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 = 6:57=20 PM
To: alex@arclyte.com; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re:=20 [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms

In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:31 AM Eastern = Standard Time,=20 alex@arclyte.com writes:


As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I = would=20 have not
been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not = male-female
rooms.
Why would there have been separate waiting = rooms?


Same reason that there were "ladies' = cars" and=20 "smokers" on trains of that era. Men were uncouth beings who smoked, = spat and=20 perhaps indulged in bad language.

This practice did not end in = the=20 1880s.

In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a Pennsy = passenger=20 train home from college on a regular basis. When I boarded, the = conductor=20 always directed me to the car on the left (there were only two in the = train by=20 that time, excluding baggage, mail and express). It was always = unpleasant, hot=20 and reeking with smoke. One day I perversely turned into the car on = the right=20 (remember, this was the 60s and youth was rebellious.) It was free of = smoke,=20 cool and pleasant. But the conductor obviously assumed no man would = want to be=20 in such a car.

Lee Rainey = ------_=_NextPart_001_01C411B1.BA0232AC-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] RE: Stations and waiting rooms Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:24:17 -0500 Greg, you are correct about the social structure back then. The depot at = the R&GVRRM was built in 1907 with separate waiting rooms, on opposite = sides of the ticket office. And, don't forget the other spurious element = in this story line, the traveling salesman or drummer whose sometimes = shady stories and jokes were also unwelcome by the ladies. I am = currently trying to find out when this practice ended at this location. OATKA / Industry depot on the Rochester Br of the Erie, but we have a = PRR connection,we own the Hammerhead 8445 (she still gets exercised) an = N5c and a H21g.=20 Check out the link , go to LV 211, bottom of that page and click on the = links for more pics. Yes, I am aware that it is currently in the wrong = scheme ,but , when it comes time to paint it again who knows. Lynn http://www.rochnrhs.org/rgvrrm.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C4118A.2A93B9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greg, you are correct about the social=20 structure back then. The depot at the R&GVRRM was built in 1907 = with=20 separate waiting rooms, on opposite sides of the ticket office. And, = don't=20 forget the other spurious element in this story line, the traveling = salesman or=20 drummer whose sometimes shady stories and jokes were also unwelcome by = the=20 ladies. I am currently trying to find out when this practice = ended at=20 this location.
OATKA / Industry depot on the = Rochester Br of=20 the Erie, but we have a PRR connection,we own the Hammerhead = 8445 (she=20 still gets exercised) an N5c and a H21g. 
 Check out the link , go to LV = 211, bottom of=20 that page and click on the links for more pics. Yes, I am aware that it = is=20 currently in the wrong scheme ,but , when it comes time to paint it = again=20 who knows.
Lynn
 
http://www.rochnrhs.org/rgvr= rm.html
  
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C4118A.2A93B9E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Miller" Subject: RE: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:39:27 -0500 I don't believe there is a single Saudi airport that the PRR ever = stopped in. =20 regards, Andy Miller -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Cadwell, Marvin L Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:08 AM To: LeeRainey@aol.com; alex@arclyte.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms Segregation of the sexes in public buildings still exists in certain = parts of the world. The Saudi Arabian airports I have flown into and out of always have separate waiting sections for women, who are veiled, and = men.=20 -----Original Message----- From: LeeRainey@aol.com [mailto:LeeRainey@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:57 PM To: alex@arclyte.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, alex@arclyte.com writes: As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I would have not=20 been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but not male-female=20 rooms. Why would there have been separate waiting rooms? Same reason that there were "ladies' cars" and "smokers" on trains of = that era. Men were uncouth beings who smoked, spat and perhaps indulged in = bad language. This practice did not end in the 1880s. In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a Pennsy passenger train home = from college on a regular basis. When I boarded, the conductor always = directed me to the car on the left (there were only two in the train by that time, excluding baggage, mail and express). It was always unpleasant, hot and reeking with smoke. One day I perversely turned into the car on the = right (remember, this was the 60s and youth was rebellious.) It was free of = smoke, cool and pleasant. But the conductor obviously assumed no man would want = to be in such a car. Lee Rainey=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C4118C.48220820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
I=20 don't believe there is a single Saudi airport that the PRR ever stopped=20 in.
 
regards,
Andy=20 Miller
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Cadwell,=20 Marvin L
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:08 = AM
To:=20 LeeRainey@aol.com; alex@arclyte.com; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: RE:=20 [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms

Segregation of the sexes in public = buildings still=20 exists in certain parts of the world.  The Saudi Arabian = airports I=20 have flown into and out of always have separate waiting sections = for=20 women, who are veiled, and men.
-----Original Message-----
From: = LeeRainey@aol.com=20 [mailto:LeeRainey@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 = 6:57=20 PM
To: alex@arclyte.com; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re:=20 [PRR] Stations and Waiting Rooms

In a message dated 3/23/2004 11:58:31 AM = Eastern Standard=20 Time, alex@arclyte.com writes:


As the stations were built in the mid to late 1800s, I = would=20 have not
been as surprised to see race segregated rooms, but = not=20 male-female
rooms.
Why would there have been separate = waiting=20 rooms?


Same reason that there were = "ladies' cars"=20 and "smokers" on trains of that era. Men were uncouth beings who = smoked,=20 spat and perhaps indulged in bad language.

This practice did = not end=20 in the 1880s.

In the 1960s, I rode the sad remnants of a = Pennsy=20 passenger train home from college on a regular basis. When I = boarded, the=20 conductor always directed me to the car on the left (there were only = two in=20 the train by that time, excluding baggage, mail and express). It was = always=20 unpleasant, hot and reeking with smoke. One day I perversely turned = into the=20 car on the right (remember, this was the 60s and youth was = rebellious.) It=20 was free of smoke, cool and pleasant. But the conductor obviously = assumed no=20 man would want to be in such a car.

Lee Rainey=20
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C4118C.48220820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:31:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1964 Consist Book / 1925 Washington Yard From: Jerry Britton