From: amato@mchsi.com Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:56:41 +0000 Subject: [PRR] I received my Jan copy of Trains over the weekend, and promptly dug into Bill Volkmer's PRR article. It's a great overview of the Susquehanna District operations in the 60s. One thing I was expecting was a detailed map of the Northumberland facilities. Alas, looks like I will have to wait for Triumph VII. Unless anyone out there has such a map? Thanks for taking the time to write this article, Bill! Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:08:00 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers PRR PS 52 coach This is a model of a C&O coach. It is distinctive with a center lounge. While only the C&O ran them, they did appear on the PRR on the Penn Station connection from the FFV, Sportsman, and GW. They may have later been sold to the Seaboard and have appeared on FL - NY trains. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > Expected to arrive on Christmas Eve is a Pullman Standard 52 coach > painted for PRR and other roads. Is this a correct Pennsy model or > would this be seen on Pennsy rails used by another RR?Thx,Geoffrey-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon G" Subject: [PRR] 1938 PRR Broadway Paint Colors Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:02:40 -0500 Does anyone know or have a source for the appropriate colors for the two-tone red originally used on the '38 Broadway cars? Which available paints would be appropriate to use to paint these cars? All the best to you and yours Weldon All outgoing emails scanned with Norton Anti-virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] NYC loads on PRR flats... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:35:38 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C3B7FF.3DF907E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg; Where are these two pictures "loaded" up to, Rob's site, or??? Earl Myers Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C3B7FF.3DF907E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg;
 Where are these two pictures = "loaded" up to,=20 Rob's site, or???
Earl Myers
Lines West
------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C3B7FF.3DF907E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: [PRR] January article in Trains mag Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:07:17 +0000 (sent this earlier, but forgot a Subject) I received my Jan copy of Trains over the weekend, and promptly dug into Bill Volkmer's PRR article. It's a great overview of the Susquehanna District operations in the 60s. One thing I was expecting was a detailed map of the Northumberland facilities. Alas, looks like I will have to wait for Triumph VII. Unless anyone out there has such a map? Thanks for taking the time to write this article, Bill! Frank ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:43:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser N8 Test Shots From: Jerry Britton Lee English sent me some test shots of the forthcoming HO scale N8 cabin car. I have to tell you, this model is really coming along and I think, by far, most modelers will be very pleased. The report made about two months ago was a bit premature. It was an earlier test shot and I don't know that the person who made the original comments really knew what they were looking at. At that time, the model was only at the point of getting the major parts to fit together. Details were not yet an issue. Even at this point, the roof has no detailing, but it is promised. With regard to the hand rails: They are not molded onto the body. They are separate pieces. They are smaller than was originally reported, and Lee plans to reduce them even further. They are also molded in yellow plastic, so painting will not be an issue. Since they are separate pieces, those who desire true wire rails will be able to lop them off that much easier. Roof walks: Wow! The roof walks are very fine and see-through. They are unlike any roof walks ever done by Bowser before. I've seen better, but only in etched brass. The steps look very good and the body detailing is good. The one-piece "glass" insert fit well. I cannot/will not post photos of the test shots as there is no way to insure that the "pre production" comments stay with them. Bowser does not need further bad PR based on misgivings about what is seen. Lee thinks this will be the finest plastic model Bowser has ever created and I have to agree that it probably will be. Exercise patience, and you HO modelers will have a fine PRR cabin car in a few months. (Now I just need it in N scale!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:56:41 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:08:00 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers PRR PS 52 coach Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mozilla-Status: 0011 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1070292029.40646.mx01.eclipse.net This is a model of a C&O coach. It is distinctive with a center lounge. While only the C&O ran them, they did appear on the PRR on the Penn Station connection from the FFV, Sportsman, and GW. They may have later been sold to the Seaboard and have appeared on FL - NY trains. Regards, Andrew S. Miller ======================================================= Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > Expected to arrive on Christmas Eve is a Pullman Standard 52 coach > painted for PRR and other roads. Is this a correct Pennsy model or > would this be seen on Pennsy rails used by another RR?Thx,Geoffrey-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon G" Subject: [PRR] 1938 PRR Broadway Paint Colors Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:02:40 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Charter-MailScanner-Information: X-Charter-MailScanner: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1070295183.65585.mx01.eclipse.net Does anyone know or have a source for the appropriate colors for the two-tone red originally used on the '38 Broadway cars? Which available paints would be appropriate to use to paint these cars? All the best to you and yours Weldon All outgoing emails scanned with Norton Anti-virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] NYC loads on PRR flats... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:35:38 -0500 Greg; Where are these two pictures "loaded" up to, Rob's site, or??? Earl Myers Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C3B7FF.3DF907E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greg;
 Where are these two pictures = "loaded" up to,=20 Rob's site, or???
Earl Myers
Lines West
------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C3B7FF.3DF907E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: amato@mchsi.com Subject: [PRR] January article in Trains mag Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:07:17 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:43:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser N8 Test Shots From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1070308183.92847.mx01.eclipse.net Lee English sent me some test shots of the forthcoming HO scale N8 cabin car. I have to tell you, this model is really coming along and I think, by far, most modelers will be very pleased. The report made about two months ago was a bit premature. It was an earlier test shot and I don't know that the person who made the original comments really knew what they were looking at. At that time, the model was only at the point of getting the major parts to fit together. Details were not yet an issue. Even at this point, the roof has no detailing, but it is promised. With regard to the hand rails: They are not molded onto the body. They are separate pieces. They are smaller than was originally reported, and Lee plans to reduce them even further. They are also molded in yellow plastic, so painting will not be an issue. Since they are separate pieces, those who desire true wire rails will be able to lop them off that much easier. Roof walks: Wow! The roof walks are very fine and see-through. They are unlike any roof walks ever done by Bowser before. I've seen better, but only in etched brass. The steps look very good and the body detailing is good. The one-piece "glass" insert fit well. I cannot/will not post photos of the test shots as there is no way to insure that the "pre production" comments stay with them. Bowser does not need further bad PR based on misgivings about what is seen. Lee thinks this will be the finest plastic model Bowser has ever created and I have to agree that it probably will be. Exercise patience, and you HO modelers will have a fine PRR cabin car in a few months. (Now I just need it in N scale!) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Resin Trains" Subject: [PRR] FS on Ebay - RARE! Baldwin 6-axle Sharks (HO) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 00:02:18 -0500 Hi Everyone, I've been digging through my boxes of stuff, and I've = managed to scrape together 2 A-B sets of Miracle Castings Baldwin 6-Axle = sharks (HO scale), as used by the Pennsy. These are out-of-production = kits, and are listed on Ebay as follows: Item #3161446967 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3161446967&rd=3D1 Item #3161444537 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3161444537&rd=3D1 NOW'S YOUR CHANCE!! Buy yourself a Christmas present, as these units are = rare, and have been out of production for years. Hope you take a look! = Regards, Pat Lawless Resin Trains - Manufacturers of fine quality resin model kits.=20 See our web site at http://www.resintrains.com New!: Our HO Scale GE Gas Turbine Locomotive in resin. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3B867.8CDAD600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Everyone, I've been digging through = my boxes of=20 stuff, and I've managed to scrape together 2 A-B sets of Miracle = Castings=20 Baldwin 6-Axle sharks (HO scale), as used by the Pennsy.  These are = out-of-production kits, and are listed on Ebay as follows:
 
Item #3161446967
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3= 161446967&rd=3D1
 
Item #3161444537
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3= 161444537&rd=3D1
 
NOW'S YOUR CHANCE!! Buy yourself a = Christmas=20 present, as these units are rare, and have been out of production for = years.=20 Hope you take a look! Regards,
 
Pat Lawless
Resin Trains - Manufacturers of fine = quality resin=20 model kits.
See our web site at http://www.resintrains.com
New= !: Our HO=20 Scale GE Gas Turbine Locomotive in resin.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C3B867.8CDAD600-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:10:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI N Scale Rumor? From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: This is only a rumor and I am not the original source of it... Has anyone else heard that BLI is on the brink of announcing their first N scale locomotive? On the Atlas N Scale Forum there is a report that an announcement is imminent for an N scale articulated. I've heard nothing direct from BLI, though I did fire off an e-mail to them a few minutes ago. Boy I'd love to see BLI GG1's in N scale...with or without sound! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] Lines West Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:26:27 -0500 Gents; Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. = Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in typical = PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our area contained the S & = Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high speed passenger runs, = ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting aspects. Thru this area = (Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline tracks, not just two, = there were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and Crestline, = the enourmous steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton & Crestline, = Canton's huge railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on the = Panhandle, large facilities at Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes = on.........how could all this be so ignored?? Earl Myers Linew West, 1944 ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C3B8BE.BE810790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Gents;
 Being fairly new to railroading = and living at=20 MP94.8 on the Ft. Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than = what is=20 in typical PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our area = contained the=20 S & Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high speed passenger = runs,=20 ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting aspects. Thru this = area=20 (Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline tracks, not just two, = there=20 were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and Crestline, the = enourmous=20 steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton & Crestline, Canton's huge=20 railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on the Panhandle, large = facilities at=20 Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes on.........how could all this be = so=20 ignored??
Earl Myers
Linew West, = 1944
------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C3B8BE.BE810790-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:11:32 -0500 Guys, I finally got the larger photos uploaded. The tender is at: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg and for the loco: http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg Sorry for the delay... I was on the beach in Aruba ignoring my e-mail! Rob -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM [mailto:TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:24 AM To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Let me try this again... Hey Yuze Gize... I just loaded a photo (small JPEG) of a PRR F30a with an interesting load... A streamlined NYC Tender! I believe the photo may have been an original contact print. It is in my collection and I never really paid much attention to it... Any scratch builders out there? Just another idea for a load. It doesn't have to be this exact tender any tender will do ... use your modeling license but watch your clearance diagrams... 3^) Remember I don't grade your work ... just my own... Rob Schoenberg has a much bigger file copy of this and the F 36 (a possible bash form an F 30) load just ahead of this one and it was the Locomotive itself... 3^) When you need to get the job done, call Pennsy... Greg Martin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRRPro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3B8D5.CE8DA500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Guys,
 
I=20 finally got the larger photos uploaded. 
 
The=20 tender is at:  = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg
and=20 for the loco: htt= p://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg
 
Sorry=20 for the delay...  I was on the beach in Aruba ignoring my=20 e-mail!
 
Rob
  -----Original=20 Message-----
From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM=20 [mailto:TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM]
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 = 2:24=20 AM
To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com
Cc: = prr-talk@dsop.com;=20 prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PRRPro] An = interesting F30a=20 load...

Let me try = this=20 again...

Hey Yuze Gize...

I just loaded a photo (small = JPEG) of=20 a PRR F30a with an interesting load... A streamlined NYC Tender! I = believe the=20 photo may have been an original contact print. It is in my collection = and I=20 never really paid much attention to it... Any scratch builders out=20 there?  Just another idea for a load.  It doesn't have to be = this=20 exact tender any
tender will do ... use your modeling license but = watch=20 your clearance diagrams... 3^) Remember I don't grade your work ... = just my=20 own...

Rob Schoenberg has a much bigger file copy of this and = the F 36=20 (a possible bash form an F 30) load just ahead of this one and it was = the=20 Locomotive itself... 3^)  When you need to get the = job=20 done, call Pennsy...

Greg Martin


Yahoo! = Groups=20 Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
3D"click
3D""=20

To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
PRRPro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C3B8D5.CE8DA500-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:44:29 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Guys, > =A0 > I finally got the larger photos uploaded.=A0 > =A0 > The tender is at:=A0 =20 > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg > and for the loco: =20 > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg Greg originally noted these as a streamlined NYC loco and tender. I =20 think rather that they are non-standard gauge locomotives for export, =20= most likely being shipped from and photographed at the Baldwin Loco =20 Works in Eddystone. The F30A has a reweigh date of 1949 and the F39 =20 seems to show 1948, indicating that the photo was shot in or after =20 1949. The spoked wheels on the front truck and the front pilot were =20 key for me...the pilot has a tiny little hole, for a link coupler? and =20= no obvious place for a US style coupler Export locos make GREAT loads! Check out all of the strapping and =20 blocking. Very cool... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ = ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = =20 | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | =20 ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| =20 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-10--258326991 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: = Arial0000,0000,FFFFGuys, =A0 = Arial0000,0000,FFFFI finally got the larger photos uploaded.=A0 =A0 = Arial0000,0000,FFFFThe tender is at:=A0 = 0000,6666,0000= http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg<= /color> = Arial0000,0000,FFFFand for the loco: = 0000,6666,0000= http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg Greg originally noted these as a streamlined NYC loco and tender. I think rather that they are non-standard gauge locomotives for export, most likely being shipped from and photographed at the Baldwin Loco Works in Eddystone. The F30A has a reweigh date of 1949 and the F39 seems to show 1948, indicating that the photo was shot in or after 1949. The spoked wheels on the front truck and the front pilot were key for me...the pilot has a tiny little hole, for a link coupler? and no obvious place for a US style coupler < Export locos make GREAT loads! Check out all of the strapping and blocking. Very cool... Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. = =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ =20 ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __=20 __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-10--258326991-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:06:38 -0500 I believe that this was part of a Baldwin order for India at the end of = production. Bennett ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob Schoenberg=20 To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com=20 Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com ; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:11 PM Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Guys, I finally got the larger photos uploaded. =20 The tender is at: = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpgI believe = this was part of an order and for the loco: = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg Sorry for the delay... I was on the beach in Aruba ignoring my = e-mail! Rob -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM [mailto:TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:24 AM To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Let me try this again... Hey Yuze Gize... I just loaded a photo (small JPEG) of a PRR F30a with an interesting = load... A streamlined NYC Tender! I believe the photo may have been an = original contact print. It is in my collection and I never really paid = much attention to it... Any scratch builders out there? Just another = idea for a load. It doesn't have to be this exact tender any=20 tender will do ... use your modeling license but watch your = clearance diagrams... 3^) Remember I don't grade your work ... just my = own...=20 Rob Schoenberg has a much bigger file copy of this and the F 36 (a = possible bash form an F 30) load just ahead of this one and it was the = Locomotive itself... 3^) When you need to get the job done, call = Pennsy...=20 Greg Martin=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ADVERTISEMENT =20 =20 =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: PRRPro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. = ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3B8DD.80D91760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I believe that this was part of a = Baldwin order for=20 India at the end of production.
 
 
Bennett
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rob=20 Schoenberg
Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com ; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com= =20
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, = 2003 1:11=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRRPro] An=20 interesting F30a load...

Guys,
 
I=20 finally got the larger photos uploaded. 
 
The=20 tender is at:  http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpgI=20 believe this was part of an order
and=20 for the loco: htt= p://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg
 
Sorry for the delay...  I was on the beach in Aruba = ignoring my=20 e-mail!
 
Rob
  -----Original = Message-----
From: TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM=20 [mailto:TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM]
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 = 2:24=20 AM
To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com
C= c:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com; prr-modeling@yahoogroups.com=
Subject:=20 [PRRPro] An interesting F30a = load...

Let me try this again...

Hey Yuze = Gize...

I=20 just loaded a photo (small JPEG) of a PRR F30a with an interesting = load... A=20 streamlined NYC Tender! I believe the photo may have been an = original=20 contact print. It is in my collection and I never really paid much = attention=20 to it... Any scratch builders out there?  Just another idea for = a=20 load.  It doesn't have to be this exact tender any
tender = will do=20 ... use your modeling license but watch your clearance diagrams... = 3^)=20 Remember I don't grade your work ... just my own...

Rob = Schoenberg=20 has a much bigger file copy of this and the F 36 (a possible bash = form an F=20 30) load just ahead of this one and it was the = Locomotive=20 itself... 3^)  When you need to get the job done, call = Pennsy...=20

Greg Martin


Yahoo! = Groups=20 Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
3D"click
3D""=20

To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 = to:
PRRPro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your = use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C3B8DD.80D91760-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cprrboss@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:14:41 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Study (from Bob Martin) List, A few minutes ago, I was given the following book: A Special History Study of Pennsylvania Railroad Shops and Works, Altoona, Pennsylvania. The author is John C. Paige and the date is 1989 (February???). The book is soft cover, 156 pages, and appears to be published by the U.S. Department of the Interior, National Park Service. Can anyone shed any light on this document for me? For example, why was it written and for whom, etc. I haven't read it yet but, since the subject is PRR, I'm looking for to getting into it. Thanks. Bob Martin York, PA --part1_14c.279dd6c2.2cfe3ea1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" List,

A few minutes ago, I was given the following book:  A Special Histo= ry Study of Pennsylvania Railroad Shops and Works, Altoona, Pennsylvania. &n= bsp;The author is John C. Paige and the date is 1989 (February???).  Th= e book is soft cover, 156 pages, and appears to be published by the U.S. Dep= artment of the Interior, National Park Service.

Can anyone shed any light on this document for me?  For example, wh= y was it written and for whom, etc.

I haven't read it yet but, since the subject is PRR, I'm looking for to=20= getting into it.

Thanks.

Bob Martin
York, PA --part1_14c.279dd6c2.2cfe3ea1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:26:39 -0500 List, The photos Rob posted are indeed of an Indian Railways broad gauge (5 = ft. 3 in). Pacific of a group built by Baldwin in the 1949-1953 period. = The "dead giveaway" is the louvered shutter on the front of the tender - = an Indian Railways feature to protect the fireman from monsoon rains. = The cab would have similar shutters, but they are boarded over. The = locomotive and tender were no doubt loaded on flatcars at Eddystone for = movement to the Port of Philadelphia. These were among Baldwin's very last steam locomotives, if not THE very = last. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: PRRPro@yahoogroups.com=20 Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:44 PM Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Rob Schoenberg wrote: Guys, =20 I finally got the larger photos uploaded.=20 =20 The tender is at: = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg and for the loco: = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg Greg originally noted these as a streamlined NYC loco and tender. I = think rather that they are non-standard gauge locomotives for export, = most likely being shipped from and photographed at the Baldwin Loco = Works in Eddystone. The F30A has a reweigh date of 1949 and the F39 = seems to show 1948, indicating that the photo was shot in or after 1949. = The spoked wheels on the front truck and the front pilot were key for = me...the pilot has a tiny little hole, for a link coupler? and no = obvious place for a US style coupler Export locos make GREAT loads! Check out all of the strapping and = blocking. Very cool... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| = |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C3B8E0.4CEEA840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
 
The photos Rob posted are indeed of an Indian = Railways broad=20 gauge (5 ft. 3 in). Pacific of a group built by Baldwin in the 1949-1953 = period.=20 The "dead giveaway" is the louvered shutter on the front of the tender - = an=20 Indian Railways feature to protect the fireman from monsoon rains. The = cab would=20 have similar shutters, but they are boarded over. The locomotive and=20 tender were no doubt loaded on flatcars at Eddystone for movement = to the=20 Port of Philadelphia.
 
These were among Baldwin's very last steam = locomotives, if=20 not THE very last.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, = 2003 1:44=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An=20 interesting F30a load...


On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 12:11 PM, Rob = Schoenberg=20 wrote:

Guys,
 = ;
I=20 finally got the larger photos = uploaded. 
 
The=20 tender is at:  = http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg
and=20 for the loco: htt= p://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg<= ?/color>

Greg=20 originally noted these as a streamlined NYC loco and tender. I think = rather=20 that they are non-standard gauge locomotives for export, most likely = being=20 shipped from and photographed at the Baldwin Loco Works in Eddystone. = The F30A=20 has a reweigh date of 1949 and the F39 seems to show 1948, indicating = that the=20 photo was shot in or after 1949. The spoked wheels on the front truck = and the=20 front pilot were key for me...the pilot has a tiny little hole, for a = link=20 coupler? and no obvious place for a US style coupler = <G>

Export=20 locos make GREAT loads! Check out all of the strapping and blocking. = Very=20 cool...

Happy Rails
Bruce
Bruce F.=20 Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, = 334-844-5850 = (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is=20 proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin
__
/ = \
__<+--+>________________\__/___=20 ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | = __ __ __=20 __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_________________________= ____\|_|____________________________________|
|=20 O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C3B8E0.4CEEA840-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:08:25 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I concur with Bruce's observation of the locomotive. To further support this, although i am no NYC expert While, similar in shroud design to a Hudson, an hudson was a 4-6-4 whilst this is clearly a 4-6-2 Pacific. From some things I know oversees this locomtoive is either bound for Germany, Russia, or possibly England IMHO. One more note, the engine is actually loaded on an F36 flatcar. Very interesting pair of photos and as Bruce said would make a great load. My 10 cents worth. John Bruce wrote: Greg originally noted these as a streamlined NYC loco and tender. I think rather that they are non-standard gauge locomotives for export, most likely being shipped from and photographed at the Baldwin Loco Works in Eddystone. The F30A has a reweigh date of 1949 and the F39 seems to show 1948, indicating that the photo was shot in or after 1949. The spoked wheels on the front truck and the front pilot were key for me...the pilot has a tiny little hole, for a link coupler? and no obvious place for a US style coupler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:37:09 -0500 From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gregg Mahlkov writes: > List, > > The photos Rob posted are indeed of an Indian Railways broad gauge (5 ft. 3 in). Pacific of a group built by Baldwin in the 1949-1953 period. The "dead giveaway" is the louvered shutter on the front of the tender - an Indian Railways feature to protect the fireman from monsoon rains. The cab would have similar shutters, but they are boarded over. The locomotive and tender were no doubt loaded on flatcars at Eddystone for movement to the Port of Philadelphia. > > These were among Baldwin's very last steam locomotives, if not THE very last. > > Gregg Mahlkov Well, I never knew but it looked NYC to me... It's a funky piece... 3^) It was a contact print (like Polaroid, shoot, wait and peel)in a collection I inherited. It is begining to detieroate and I needed to pressure it. I send a copy to Richard Hendrickson to add to his seminar on open top loadings for Cocoa Beach this January. I guess at some point I need to go back through the entire collection and preserve other photos from this collection, such as the massive collection of passenger cars and locomotives. Hope you all enjoy these shots and perhaps we can come up with some interesting open top loadings for our PRR PROJECT list... I think Richard's seminar in Cocoa Beach will give us a kick in the rear! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David McDonald" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Study Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:13:28 -0500 Bob: I don’t know anything about the book, but it is for sale at the following web site: http://www.allegheny.org/store/Publications/SpecialHistoryStudy.htm for $20.00. I’d be interested in your review and if you think it might be worth the money. Thanks. Dave McDonald ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3B8EF.38CE6210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bob:

 

I don’t know anything about the book, but it is for sale at = the following web site:

 

http://www.allegheny.org/store/Publications/SpecialHistoryStudy.htm

 

for $20.00. I’d be interested in your review and if you = think it might be worth the money.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave McDonald

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3B8EF.38CE6210-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:31:48 -0500 From: Garry Spear Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: [PRRPro] An interesting F30a load... Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Rob Schoenberg wrote: > Guys, > > I finally got the larger photos uploaded. > > The tender is at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg > and for the loco: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg > > Sorry for the delay... I was on the beach in Aruba ignoring my e-mail! > > Rob Looks like a locomotive for India, Australia, or New Zealand. These locations have 5' and 3 1/2' gauge railroads. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:49:17 +0900 From: K-Hiyama Subject: [PRR] Re: An interesting F30a load... In-Reply-To: References: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: List. Thankyou for very interesing photos. I like the locomotive. (Of course I like PRR flatcars too.:-) The locomotive is Indian Gavarment Railways class "WP". Overall length 77'5-3/8" Driver dia. 5'7" Baldwin and ALCO Montreal made 236 WPs in 1948-1950. Later, 1955-1967, many foreign builders made many WPs. Regards. Kazz Hiyama Japan c6223@jsdi.or.jp Please visit to my Model page. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Toys/9237/index.html >"Rob Schoenberg" wrote: > Guys, > > I finally got the larger photos uploaded. > > The tender is at: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender002.jpg > and for the loco: > http://prr.railfan.net/photos/PRRPro/prr_f30aflat_tender.jpg > > Sorry for the delay... I was on the beach in Aruba ignoring my e-mail! > > Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:20:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting Folks, As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a contract with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility that we could move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use any of the facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that things seem to be okay. I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned. Thanx for the feedback. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:20:17 -0500 Folks, As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a contract with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility that we could move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use any of the facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that things seem to be okay. I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned. Thanx for the feedback. Al ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3B911.B4A06920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Folks,
 
As one of our members recently = pointed out,=20 the 2005 annual meeting at Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. = Although=20 we have a contract with the Radisson for that weekend there is a = possibility=20 that we could move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use = any of=20 the facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that = things=20 seem to be okay.
 
I need to know quickly if the = consensus is=20 to try and move it to avoid the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as=20 originally planned.
 
Thanx for the = feedback.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C3B911.B4A06920-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:17:50 -0500 Earl, It is west of Philadelphia. Jack Consoli (equally frustrated Pittsburgh native) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Earl Myers=20 To: PRR TALK=20 Cc: Pennsy West=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:26 AM Subject: [PRR] Lines West Gents; Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. = Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in typical = PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our area contained the S & = Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high speed passenger runs, = ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting aspects. Thru this area = (Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline tracks, not just two, = there were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and Crestline, = the enourmous steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton & Crestline, = Canton's huge railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on the = Panhandle, large facilities at Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes = on.........how could all this be so ignored?? Earl Myers Linew West, 1944 ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3B919.BD90A4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Earl,
 
It is west of = Philadelphia.
 
Jack Consoli
(equally frustrated Pittsburgh = native)
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Earl = Myers=20
Cc: Pennsy West
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, = 2003 10:26=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Lines West

Gents;
 Being fairly new to railroading = and living=20 at MP94.8 on the Ft. Wayne.....why has there not been more published = (than=20 what is in typical PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our = area=20 contained the S & Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high = speed=20 passenger runs, ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting = aspects.=20 Thru this area (Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline = tracks, not=20 just two, there were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and = Crestline, the enourmous steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton = &=20 Crestline, Canton's huge railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on = the=20 Panhandle, large facilities at Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes = on.........how could all this be so ignored??
Earl Myers
Linew West,=20 1944
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3B919.BD90A4C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:43:59 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Lines West is a niche market (the nasty secret) In a message dated 12/2/03 2:38:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Lines West > From: "Earl Myers" > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:26:27 -0500 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0077_01C3B8BE.BE810790 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Gents; > Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. = > Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in typical = > PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our area contained the S & = > Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high speed passenger runs, = > ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting aspects. Thru this area = > (Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline tracks, not just two, = > there were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and Crestline, = > the enourmous steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton & Crestline, = > Canton's huge railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on the = > Panhandle, large facilities at Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes = > on.........how could all this be so ignored?? > Earl Myers > Linew West, 1944 > Earl, See the archives of PennsyWest@yahoo for several years of discussion on this subject. You'll also find more of our earlier screaming and whining on PRR-Talk's archives -- go back a couple of years. Many thoughts have been aired, from the (interesting) hypothesis that Lines West people were just too stupid to save anything, to the (perfectly logical) observation that west of the state of Pennsylvania there were a lot of other railroads to be interested in. However, my opinion is, it's mostly demographics -- for whatever reason, only a small percentage of Pennsy fans live/lived west of Harrisburg. OTOH, there is a huge concentration on the East Coast. Also, railfan photographers I know chose to shoot the quaint and unusual -- not standard engines like on the Standard Railroad of the World. Again, the Pennsy dieselized early, discouraging the taking of pictures in that era. And photo collections are the lifeblood of articles and books. Finally, there seem to be fewer Pennsy writers west of the Pittsburgh area (challenge, guys). So the current fan base is tiny. I know of two other Pennsy fans here in Louisville, neither very active. If I want to see active modeling or writing, I have to drive 2 hours to the north side of Cincinnati (and that's why the PRRT& HS is meeting there next May). Then from there, it's another two hours to Columbus. I never knew one real Pennsy fan while I was growing up in Dayton; I've discovered a couple since, but like me they live elsewhere. All in all, there aren't that many of us interested in PRR Lines West, so why publish for a niche market when you can crank out books for bigger audiences (like New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC)? That's simple economics -- and less risky. BTW, you wouldn't believe what we went through to find pictures for the upcoming Keystone article on Cincinnati, and I had friends there to do a lot of the searching. Still, we're lucky to have a Society magazine willing to print Lines West articles -- it wouldn't happen in the popular magazines. Like I said, it's a matter of demographics -- we're not a mass market, and that's not something we can change by wishing. Thank goodness we have the web! Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_1d1.154d183c.2cfeb5ff_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/2/03 2= :38:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Lines West
From: "Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:26:27 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=3D_NextPart_000_0077_01C3B8BE.BE810790
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

Gents;
Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. =3D
Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in typical=20= =3D
PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? Our area contained the S &= =3D
Q locomotives, lots of T-1 action and long, high speed passenger runs, =3D ore drags down the C&P and many more interesting aspects. Thru this area= =3D
(Canton) in the steam years, there were 4 mainline tracks, not just two,=20= =3D
there were (still are) the 2.5 mile long yards at Canton and Crestline, =3D<= BR> the enourmous steel and concrete roundhouses at Canton & Crestline, =3D<= BR> Canton's huge railyard, the large facilities at Dennison on the =3D
Panhandle, large facilities at Columbus & Ft. Wayne, the list goes =3D on.........how could all this be so ignored??
Earl Myers
Linew West, 1944


Earl,

See the archives of PennsyWest@yahoo for several years of discussion on this= subject.  You'll also find more of our earlier screaming and whining o= n PRR-Talk's archives -- go back a couple of years.  Many thoughts have= been aired, from the (interesting) hypothesis that Lines West people were j= ust too stupid to save anything, to the (perfectly logical) observation that= west of the state of Pennsylvania there were a lot of other railroads to be= interested in.

However, my opinion is, it's mostly demographics -- for whatever reason, onl= y a small percentage of Pennsy fans live/lived west of Harrisburg.  OTO= H, there is a huge concentration on the East Coast.  Also, railfan phot= ographers I know chose to shoot the quaint and unusual -- not standard engin= es like on the Standard Railroad of the World.  Again, the Pennsy diese= lized early, discouraging the taking of pictures in that era.  And phot= o collections are the lifeblood of articles and books.

Finally, there seem to be fewer Pennsy writers west of the Pittsburgh area (= challenge, guys).

So the current fan base is tiny.  I know of two other Pennsy fans here=20= in Louisville, neither very active.  If I want to see active modeling o= r writing, I have to drive 2 hours to the north side of Cincinnati (and that= 's why the PRRT&HS is meeting there next May).  Then from there, it= 's another two hours to Columbus.  I never knew one real Pennsy fan whi= le I was growing up in Dayton; I've discovered a couple since, but like me t= hey live elsewhere. 

All in all, there aren't that many of us interested in PRR Lines West, so wh= y publish for a niche market when you can crank out books for bigger audienc= es (like New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC)?  That's simple eco= nomics -- and less risky.

BTW, you wouldn't believe what we went through to find pictures for the upco= ming Keystone article on Cincinnati, and I had friends there to do a lot of=20= the searching.  Still, we're lucky to have a Society magazine willing t= o print Lines West articles -- it wouldn't happen in the popular magazines.<= BR>
Like I said, it's a matter of demographics -- we're not a mass market, and t= hat's not something we can change by wishing.  Thank goodness we have t= he web!

    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_1d1.154d183c.2cfeb5ff_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:34:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BANKS-Enola-Rockville Routing Circa 1954 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gang, this evening the crew of my Eastern Region will be laying out the right-of-way for the flyover at the west end of the Rockville Bridge and the trackage through BANKS interlocking. Have a question on routing... Photographic evidence shows that in 1954 all four tracks were still on the bridge. And "3" track split at the west end, with one leg being dubbed "0" track and staying next to "4" track near the river. The other leg retains "3" and decends into the Marysville Yard. Passenger routing on "1" and "2" track is obvious through the whole area. Freight traffic in and out of Enola is also obvious. Eastbound freight on "3" track moves onto "A" track at BANKS, ducks under "1" and "2" tracks just east of the Marysville Station, rises behind the west end of the bridge, and enters Enola. Westbound freight departs Enola on "D" track and merges with "4" track at BANKS. Alternatively, the "Old Line" could be used between Enola and BANKS, passing through the Marysville Yard. Westbound freight from Harrisburg would be on the bridge on "4" track, would stay close to the river all the way to BANKS. Just prior to the main BANKS plant it would merge with the "Old Line" and "D" tracks. Eastbound freight towards Harrisburg is where my question lies. They would come through BANKS on "3". If they continue on "3", which passes through Marysville Yard, they end up with a fairly steep grade to get back up to the Rockville Bridge. This "appears" to be the main route, however. The alternative is to take "4" within the BANKS interlocking to the "Old Line" (still inside BANKS interlocking), continuing through the Marysville Yard on a bit of a thoroughfare track, then rising to the Rockville Bridge on "0" track. This appears to have a lesser grade than using "3" track out of the yard, but I am not sure. A drawing of the trackage, correct for 1954, may be viewed at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layout/images/triumph2_249.jpg Can any of the former employees out there shed light on eastbound freight movement in this area? Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:05:10 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Mothers Day a minefield In a message dated 12/3/03 4:22:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:20:17 -0500 > From: "Al Buchan" > Subject: PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting > > Folks, > > As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at > Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a contract > with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility that we could > move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use any of the > facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that > things seem to be okay. > > I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid > the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned. > > Thanx for the feedback. > > Al > Al, The annual meeting has always conflicted with the Kentucky Derby (the first Saturday in May for like the past 100 years). That's a medium-size sacrifice for Louisvillians. However, blotting out Mothers Day would be REAL TROUBLE on a national scale. My vvote would be to move the date if possible -- hope this is not an expensive change. Thanks for being sensitive to this problem. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:05:12 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Lines West Blues? In a message dated 12/2/03 10:47:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West > From: "jconsoli" > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:17:50 -0500 > > > Earl, > > It is west of Philadelphia. > > Jack Consoli > (equally frustrated Pittsburgh native) Jack, I had to laugh (heartily), even though I know you're right. I was waiting for someone else to complain "the world ends at the Gallitzin tunnels", but you have trumped me. Of course, you realize in the course of authoring those two books on Pittsburgh, you were adding greatly to Lines West information (including all those juicy pictures of rolling stock with PENNSYLVANIA LINES and VANDALIA on them). We LW people have to be grateful for favors where we find them. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:05:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Lines West Blues? In a message dated 12/2/03 10:47:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West > From: "jconsoli" > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:17:50 -0500 > > > Earl, > > It is west of Philadelphia. > > Jack Consoli > (equally frustrated Pittsburgh native) Jack, I had to laugh (heartily), even though I know you're right. I was waiting for someone else to complain "the world ends at the Gallitzin tunnels", but you have trumped me. Of course, you realize in the course of authoring those two books on Pittsburgh, you were adding greatly to Lines West information (including all those juicy pictures of rolling stock with PENNSYLVANIA LINES and VANDALIA on them). We LW people have to be grateful for favors where we find them. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_12e.36ac3a15.2cff55a8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/2/03 1= 0:47:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Lines West From: "jconsoli" <jconsoli@paonline.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:17:50 -0500


Earl,

It is west of Philadelphia.

Jack Consoli
(equally frustrated Pittsburgh native)


Jack,

I had to laugh (heartily), even though I know you're right.  I was wait= ing for someone else to complain "the world ends at the Gallitzin tunnels",=20= but you have trumped me.

Of course, you realize in the course of authoring those two books on Pittsbu= rgh, you were adding greatly to Lines West information (including all those=20= juicy pictures of rolling stock with PENNSYLVANIA LINES and VANDALIA on them= ).  We LW people have to be grateful for favors where we find them.

    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_12e.36ac3a15.2cff55a8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:05:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Mothers Day a minefield In a message dated 12/3/03 4:22:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:20:17 -0500 > From: "Al Buchan" > Subject: PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting > > Folks, > > As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at > Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a contract > with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility that we could > move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use any of the > facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that > things seem to be okay. > > I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid > the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned. > > Thanx for the feedback. > > Al > Al, The annual meeting has always conflicted with the Kentucky Derby (the first Saturday in May for like the past 100 years). That's a medium-size sacrifice for Louisvillians. However, blotting out Mothers Day would be REAL TROUBLE on a national scale. My vvote would be to move the date if possible -- hope this is not an expensive change. Thanks for being sensitive to this problem. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_129.36850c84.2cff55a6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/3/03 4:22:13 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Modeling@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:20:17 -0500
   From: "Al Buchan" <abbuchan1@comcast.net>
Subject: PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting

Folks,

As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at
Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a contract
with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility that we could
move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not use any of the
facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, other than that
things seem to be okay.

I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid
the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned.

Thanx for the feedback.

Al


Al,

The annual meeting has always conflicted with the Kentucky Derby (the first=20= Saturday in May for like the past 100 years).  That's a medium-size sac= rifice for Louisvillians.  However, blotting out Mothers Day would be R= EAL TROUBLE on a national scale.  My vvote would be to move the date if= possible -- hope this is not an expensive change.

Thanks for being sensitive to this problem.

    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_129.36850c84.2cff55a6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: charliehoran@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:28:39 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRRSignaling] PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting Al: We have always tried religiously to avoid Mother's Day. I think we probably should continue to do that. However, seeing actual response to this situation will be interesting. My guess is that, even apart from those that are addressed on your message, attendance would be reduced if the date is not changed. I don't think the restrictions on facility availability until after 5 PM will generate any major problems. However, I do think it will present some issues. Typically, the Camp Hill site has not included Vendor room access on Thursday Evenings, except for a short Vendor setup period. The 5 PM restriction shouldn't be a real problem with that, assuming the pattern of the past is continued. But, early registrations are likely to be somewhat problematic. That problem might be "worked around" with some assistance from the hotel (temporary set up in the hotel lobby?). We probably do need to change the date! ceh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Charles Blardone, Jr." Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:21:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: PRRT&HS 2005 Annual Meeting Al: It's a guessing game with the members. Personally, either is okay with me, as my mother and mother-in-law have both passed away and Carol will understand me not being around if we opt for Mother's Day weekend. It's hard to forecast what the members will think. Some will appreciate a move due to the conflict and others will grouse about moving the meeting from its customary time. If I have to vote, I vote to move it away from Mother's Day weekend. Chuck Al Buchan wrote: > Folks, > > > > As one of our members recently pointed out, the 2005 annual meeting at > Camp Hill will fall on Mother's Day weekend. Although we have a > contract with the Radisson for that weekend there is a possibility > that we could move it back to the weekend of 5/19-5/22. We could not > use any of the facilities until after 5 p.m. on Thursday the 19th, > other than that things seem to be okay. > > > > I need to know quickly if the consensus is to try and move it to avoid > the Mother's Day weekend or to go ahead as originally planned. > > > > Thanx for the feedback. > > > > Al > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:26:11 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Model Power Sharks From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] MDC ore cars Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:40:52 +0000 From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] MDC ore cars Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:25:11 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <120320032140.11401.4b22@att.net> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: RE: Are the MDC HO ore cars fairly close to the PRR version? No not really close. There was an article years ago about how to make them more respectable PRR models. But as I recall it was a lot of work. And if you calculate time as money, you might be better off with the Stewart cars or maybe even wait until the Eel River Models of the G39/G39a come out. See Greg Martin's notice in September's issue of TKM. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] MDC ore cars Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:17:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <005d01c3b92d$f34a3720$06f70041@dial.home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben, Thanx for the comparison - and yes I agree on the $7.48 extra/car being worth it. Life's too short to convert an inaccurate car into an accurate car when an accurate car exists in a fairly reasonable price range. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] MDC ore cars Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:44:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Norm asked: "Are the MDC HO ore cars fairly close to the PRR version? " Al replied: "No not really close." The two MDC ore gons are great models of SP Class G-100-1 ore cars but not of PRR Class G39/G39A. I've sent Al and Norm a side-by-side which graphically illustrates what Al's talking about. Contact me OFF-LIST if you want a copy. Al recommended: ...And if you calculate time as money, you might be better off with the Stewart cars or maybe even wait until the Eel River Models of the G39/G39a come out. YMMV, but an accurate model is certainly worth an extra $7.48 per car. (MSRP: MDC $8.50, Stewart $15.98). Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Original-From: "Dominic Mazoch" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 02:18:46 GMT Subject: [PRR] From: Dominic Mazoch Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:45:14 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Lines West niche market Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Earl Myers asked: >> Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. = >> Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in typical >> PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? and replied: > ... my opinion is, it's mostly demographics ... Also, railfan > photographers I know chose to shoot the quaint and unusual -- not > standard engines like on the Standard Railroad of the World. And some words about what (and where) photographers shot on the PRR. I now live in Pittsburgh, on the cusp, so to speak, and really have an interest in Lines West, but suffer from its lack of coverage. But, I am also a native of Chambersburg, PA, on the Cumberland Valley line. There is also a sad lack of coverage of this important secondary line in print after 1919, including structures, roster shots, and action shots. And during steam-to-diseasal declention -- er, transition -- it was a really neat mix of L1, Alco covered wagons, other butt-ugly EMD road switchers and d-e shifters, N5 and N6b's. The Hagerstown roundhouse was a joint PRR/NW roster shot cornucopia. Great local runs on the South Penn and Waynesboro branches. Lots of neat small industrial towns, wood-frame feed and grain/building supply/coal/sand/gravel dealerships, great trackside photo-ops with small and medium-size passenger stations as backdrops, LEMO/J tower, street running, etc, etc. Tons of industrial shifting in Chambersburg. And yet largely ignored by the "biggies" in the photography side of the railfan community. It just wasn't sexy enough. In other words, yinz Lines West guys, n'at, ain't alone in the "left out in the cold" crowd. Geez Louise! Well, at least there's a book (out of print) on the CV prior to 1919. That's something, at least. Vagel "born too late" Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Power Sharks Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:52:26 -0000 Geoffrey, Assuming they are the same as the ER Models/Roco model the couplings are = held in by friction pins that just pull out. Patrick=20 www.prr.org.uk www.scanrailsoc.org.uk ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Geoffrey Van Dooren=20 To: PRR talk list=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:26 PM Subject: [PRR] Model Power Sharks Hi list, I am looking at a Model Power Shark (made by Roco), so it crossed the = Atlantic twice and is now back in Europe, but I have no idea how to = remove the couplers. Some tips? Thanks, Geoffrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C3BA3B.8F695E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Geoffrey,
 
Assuming they are the same as the ER = Models/Roco=20 model the couplings are held in by friction
pins that just pull out.
 
Patrick
 
www.prr.org.uk
www.scanrailsoc.org.uk<= /DIV>
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Geoffrey Van Dooren =
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, = 2003 9:26=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Model Power = Sharks

Hi list,
I am looking at a Model Power Shark (made by Roco), so it crossed = the=20 Atlantic twice and is now back in Europe, but I have no idea how to = remove the=20 couplers.
Some tips?
Thanks,
Geoffrey

Do you Yahoo!?
= Free=20 Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C3BA3B.8F695E70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Large K4 mural Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:35:46 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, If you live in the Phila./South Jersey area, you will notice all the new Commerce Banks that have been built recently. They feature an 8' x 8' mural of a historic scene that is local to that bank on a very visible wall. The Commerce Bank that is on Rt. 30 White Horse Pike just south of the Atco movies has a modernized K4 pulling about 4 coaches that look like P70 in front of a station that is probably Berlin. The colors on the K4 look fine, but the coaches are a medium green with Oxide Red roofs. I don't know why. I am thinking it may have been an error on the graphics arts company that made the mural. It is still worth a quick look if you are in the area. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: PRR Lines West niche market Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:30:09 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Re: PRR Lines West niche market Thread-Index: AcO6EpolvgggtZDDSuiWEBrOGfa7IgAYEuPQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." , "PRR-Talk" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2003 14:30:09.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EF11FB0:01C3BA73] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I've seen a fair amount of colored photos in the Morning Sun-like books = of PRR's activities in Hagarstown, including the roundhouse, station, = and the yard. -----Original Message----- From: Vagel C. Keller, Jr. [mailto:vck@andrew.cmu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:45 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Lines West niche market Earl Myers asked: >> Being fairly new to railroading and living at MP94.8 on the Ft. =3D >> Wayne.....why has there not been more published (than what is in = typical >> PRR orientated books) about the PRR out here? and replied: > ... my opinion is, it's mostly demographics ... Also, railfan > photographers I know chose to shoot the quaint and unusual -- not > standard engines like on the Standard Railroad of the World. And some words about what (and where) photographers shot on the PRR. I now live in Pittsburgh, on the cusp, so to speak, and really have an=20 interest in Lines West, but suffer from its lack of coverage. But, I am = also a native of Chambersburg, PA, on the Cumberland Valley line. There = is=20 also a sad lack of coverage of this important secondary line in print = after=20 1919, including structures, roster shots, and action shots. And during=20 steam-to-diseasal declention -- er, transition -- it was a really neat = mix=20 of L1, Alco covered wagons, other butt-ugly EMD road switchers and d-e=20 shifters, N5 and N6b's. The Hagerstown roundhouse was a joint PRR/NW=20 roster shot cornucopia. Great local runs on the South Penn and = Waynesboro=20 branches. Lots of neat small industrial towns, wood-frame feed and=20 grain/building supply/coal/sand/gravel dealerships, great trackside=20 photo-ops with small and medium-size passenger stations as backdrops,=20 LEMO/J tower, street running, etc, etc. Tons of industrial shifting in=20 Chambersburg. And yet largely ignored by the "biggies" in the = photography=20 side of the railfan community. It just wasn't sexy enough. In other words, yinz Lines West guys, n'at, ain't alone in the "left out = in=20 the cold" crowd. Geez Louise! Well, at least there's a book (out of=20 print) on the CV prior to 1919. That's something, at least. Vagel "born too late" Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 07:35:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Large K4 mural Hi All, If you live in the Phila./South Jersey area, you will notice all the new Commerce Banks that have been built recently. They feature an 8' x 8' mural of a historic scene that is local to that bank on a very visible wall. The Commerce Bank that is on Rt. 30 White Horse Pike just south of the Atco movies has a modernized K4 pulling about 4 coaches that look like P70 in front of a station that is probably Berlin. The colors on the K4 look fine, but the coaches are a medium green with Oxide Red roofs. I don't know why. I am thinking it may have been an error on the graphics arts company that made the mural. It is still worth a quick look if you are in the area. Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:31:26 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:14:06 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 09:31 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: > PRR- Listers: > > I was wondering if armstrong levers were sometimes interconnected such > that they would need to be thrown together. For example, two armstrong > levers, adjacent to on the interlocking machine, were mechanically > linked together so that both levers would be thrown simulateaously. > These levers were typically used in towers to turnouts, signals, and > blocking devices. Ted, For an OUTSTANDING primer on mechanical interlocking plants, see Bill Darnaby's article in the most recent MR. While I doubt that the answer to your question was yes very often, I guess it is possible. More often, the levers would require sequential activation to correctly set up a route. After all, they weren't called "armstrong" levers because you could move them with a finger...you were actually throwing the switch (yes, the "switch", the mobile part of a "turnout") when you pulled that lever! An example from Bill's article of sequential levers would be a lever that unlocked the switch and then a second lever to throw the switch. In some cases, One lever might do two things, like throw a switch and open a derail or throw two switches. My interlockings will all be "electropneumatic" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6--94550089 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 09:31 AM, Ted Andrews wrote: PRR- Listers: I was wondering if armstrong levers were sometimes interconnected such that they would need to be thrown together. For example, two armstrong levers, adjacent to on the interlocking machine, were mechanically linked together so that both levers would be thrown simulateaously. These levers were typically used in towers to turnouts, signals, and blocking devices. Ted, For an OUTSTANDING primer on mechanical interlocking plants, see Bill Darnaby's article in the most recent MR. While I doubt that the answer to your question was yes very often, I guess it is possible. More often, the levers would require sequential activation to correctly set up a route. After all, they weren't called "armstrong" levers because you could move them with a finger...you were actually throwing the switch (yes, the "switch", the mobile part of a "turnout") when you pulled that lever! An example from Bill's article of sequential levers would be a lever that unlocked the switch and then a second lever to throw the switch. In some cases, One lever might do two things, like throw a switch and open a derail or throw two switches. My interlockings will all be "electropneumatic" < Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6--94550089-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:41:39 +0000 >From: Bruce Smith >Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question >Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:14:06 -0600 From: "John Peters" Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:09:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Large K4 mural PRSL did use RDG coaches in summer but red roofs?................................boomer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:35 AM Subject: [PRR-FAX] Large K4 mural > Hi All, > > If you live in the Phila./South Jersey area, you will notice all the new > Commerce Banks that have been built recently. They feature an 8' x 8' mural > of a historic scene that is local to that bank on a very visible wall. The > Commerce Bank that is on Rt. 30 White Horse Pike just south of the Atco > movies has a modernized K4 pulling about 4 coaches that look like P70 in > front of a station that is probably Berlin. The colors on the K4 look fine, > but the coaches are a medium green with Oxide Red roofs. I don't know why. I > am thinking it may have been an error on the graphics arts company that made > the mural. > > It is still worth a quick look if you are in the area. > > Thanks > Bill > > > > > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. > > To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = > PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:39:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <2A5F8FEA-2689-11D8-B49F-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: For those salivating for even more of the built-up P85b's from Centralia Car Shops (via Des Plaines Hobbies / InterMountain), the second paint scheme has been announced. Coming soon will be 12 road numbers in the later "PRR Keystone" scheme. Part number has been assigned, so your dealer can take reservations. Don't miss out! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: r.r.farquharson@att.net Subject: [PRR] T1 on the Middle Division Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:08:58 +0000 From: b.hom@att.net Subject: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:19:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:48:17 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO Thread-Index: AcO6o0x+Ub1HH+BKRFSMzeUPc2NfywAA5eRw From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Jerry Britton" , "PRR-Talk LIST" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2003 20:48:20.0263 (UTC) FILETIME=[F36A2370:01C3BAA7] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I noticed one problem associated with the HO version of these cars. It = appears as if the interior is comprised of a single molding similar to = that employed in the Rivarossi and Bachman cars to represent the seats. = Unfortunately, this interior moling on the Intermountain cars is not = always positioned properly. If one looks inside the windows of some of = the cars, it will be seen that seat backs located at the end of the cars = are higher than those in the middle. This would be simple matter to = fix, BUT, (I've been told) the roof has been glued on to the car sides, = and there is no easy way to get into the interior of the car. I saw several of these cars at the last flea market I visited, and = nearly all had this problem. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:39 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO For those salivating for even more of the built-up P85b's from=20 Centralia Car Shops (via Des Plaines Hobbies / InterMountain), the=20 second paint scheme has been announced. Coming soon will be 12 road=20 numbers in the later "PRR Keystone" scheme. Part number has been=20 assigned, so your dealer can take reservations. Don't miss out! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:53:29 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] Classification light question Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hello all: The new HO Atlas H16-44 comes with working class lights (red/green LED -- you can also get a yellowish white by lighting both at the same time) -- which brings me to the following question: When did PRR use what color class lights -- and for what reason(s). Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:08:44 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 02:19 PM, b.hom@att.net wrote: > However, Accurail #4802 (Fruit Growers Express) is an excellent car for > Pennsy reefer blocks of the 1940s-1950s: > http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4800/4802.jpg Actually, I don't think so ! The car itself is an excellent model of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the P&L on the #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the reweigh date is 1962! Pennsy modelers of the 40's and 50's want the 5th Ave Car shops version of that car (under custom decorating on the Accurail site)....believe me...I have 3 of the Accurails ready for repaints, once the microscale decals come back into stock. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-16--76872450 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 02:19 PM, b.hom@att.net wrote: However, Accurail #4802 (Fruit Growers Express) is an excellent car for Pennsy reefer blocks of the 1940s-1950s: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4800/4802.jpg Actually, I don't think so <! The car itself is an excellent model of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the P&L on the #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the reweigh date is 1962! Pennsy modelers of the 40's and 50's want the 5th Ave Car shops version of that car (under custom decorating on the Accurail site)....believe me...I have 3 of the Accurails ready for repaints, once the microscale decals come back into stock. Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-16--76872450-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:20:26 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Ben, I'm at school right now so i don't know the exact class or page number, but the car matches the scheme in one of the books that contains b&w pictures of PRR equipment. When I get home in another hour or so I can cite the book and class but I did some research before purchasing one of these cars. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Classification light question Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:29:39 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff, We had this discussion at railroad club Monday night. Red to the rear is correct, but the class lights should actually be White the the front. This is what my dad said, so maybe it's right. -John Jeff wrote: Hello all: The new HO Atlas H16-44 comes with working class lights (red/green LED -- you can also get a yellowish white by lighting both at the same time) -- which brings me to the following question: When did PRR use what color class lights -- and for what reason(s). Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:40:13 +0000 From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: [PRR] P85's in HO (thoughts and suggestion) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:46:31 +0000 From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:36:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: The other thing that struck me was the thickness of the seat backs. I also am disappointed that window shades were not included 'cause I think getting into the cars will be a big problem. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: Cadwell, Marvin L To: Jerry Britton ; PRR-Talk LIST Date: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:00 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO I noticed one problem associated with the HO version of these cars. It appears as if the interior is comprised of a single molding similar to that employed in the Rivarossi and Bachman cars to represent the seats. Unfortunately, this interior moling on the Intermountain cars is not always positioned properly. If one looks inside the windows of some of the cars, it will be seen that seat backs located at the end of the cars are higher than those in the middle. This would be simple matter to fix, BUT, (I've been told) the roof has been glued on to the car sides, and there is no easy way to get into the interior of the car. I saw several of these cars at the last flea market I visited, and nearly all had this problem. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:39 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Second Run of P85's in HO For those salivating for even more of the built-up P85b's from Centralia Car Shops (via Des Plaines Hobbies / InterMountain), the second paint scheme has been announced. Coming soon will be 12 road numbers in the later "PRR Keystone" scheme. Part number has been assigned, so your dealer can take reservations. Don't miss out! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:22:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just for point of reference, the book is The Cars of The Pennsylvania Railroad. Published by Wayner Publications, New York, NY. The photograph is on the bottom of page 42. The numbering series Accurail used is correct per the car. Though class wise, it looks like it says RE instead of RF. It's a bit hard to tell. My bottom line in this case, is that for the ease of the kit and price (espescially a college student) the Accurail car is a nice car to have in my reefer block. Once my dad and I mix some new colors the car will be recieving some very heavy weathering anyway. One more thing, since the Accuracy of Accurail has risen. About a month ago we were discussing stock cars, are any of thier kits semi-accurate. By Semi-accurate I mean a person not in RCA (Rivet Counters Anonymous). My quarters worth. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Classification light question Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:51:34 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <3FCF9EC9.8010803@pennsyrr.com> Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff, et al., Re: When did PRR use what color class lights -- and for what reason(s). See this and next month's edition of TKM for all you wanted to know about classification lights but were afraid to ask. The story in a nut shell is white was for extras, green denoting sections following. However, the PRR stopped using classification lights before the diesel era. Therefore, Pennsy diesels had NO classification lights only marker lights. Again read it in the December (extras) and January (sections) TKM, then in February we'll wrap up train signals with markers. We covered headlights in the November issue. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:07:14 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Classification light question Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Al: [snip] >Therefore, Pennsy diesels had NO classification lights only marker >lights. > What color would marker lights be? White? Thanks, Jeff > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Classification light question Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:52:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3FCFCC32.5000807@pennsyrr.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: What color would marker lights be? White? No red. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:00:06 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John Frantz wrote: "Just for point of reference, the book is The Cars of The Pennsylvania Railroad. Published by Wayner Publications, New York, NY. The photograph is on the bottom of page 42. The numbering series Accurail used is correct per the car. Though class wise, it looks like it says RE instead of RF. It's a bit hard to tell." The car class reads "RF." which makes it look like RE; however, the car is definitely Class RF - the Class XL underframe is the giveaway. Class RE had a truss-rod underframe. "My bottom line in this case, is that for the ease of the kit and price (especially a college student) the Accurail car is a nice car to have in my reefer block. Once my dad and I mix some new colors the car will be receiving some very heavy weathering anyway." No amount of weathering will hide the fact that the car is the wrong length! Trust me, John, I've been in your situation when I was an undergrad at RPI. Fortunately, the club there was/is a great place to learn, and sharpening your detailing, paint, and lettering skills are definitely within the budget of a college student, and will benefit you in the long run. BTW, the MDC 36 ft reefer is a sleeper, especially since it's been retooled with separate roof and ends. With Bethlehem Car Works' conversion underframe (part no. 5, $6.00) to update the car with a steel underframe, you can use this model as a stand-in for any number of 36 - 38 ft meat reefers. The separate roof and ends greatly simplifies painting. See the RPI website for more ideas on using this kit. http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/ Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] Accurail Stock Car (was PRR Reefer) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:12:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John Frantz asked: "One more thing, since the Accuracy of Accurail has risen. About a month ago we were discussing stock cars, are any of their kits semi-accurate. By Semi-accurate I mean a person not in RCA (Rivet Counters Anonymous)." The Accurail stock car models a GN prototype converted from USRA DS boxcars between 1954-1957. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn55747ajs.jpg Unfortunately, the 9-panel Pratt Truss pattern of the GN cars is rare among stock cars - only the NYC had similar cars (more accurately modeled by, of all things, the AHM/Roco stock car), rebuilt 1947-48. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-sf13.gif http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-sf15.gif All of the other roadnames offered by Accurail are bogus, modeling either Howe Truss cars (diagonals in a reverse pattern to the model) or lower prototypes that simply don't look like this kit. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:59:17 -0500 Bruce Smith wrote: "Actually, I don't think so ! The car itself is an excellent model = of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the P&L on the = #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the reweigh = date is 1962!" Don't you mean the BREX kit? The Accurail model photo of the FGEX car = has a reweigh date of 1954, and the scheme is almost a dead ringer for a = 1945 builder's photo of FGEX 35204. http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Wood/Reefers-wood-FGE= -1945.jpg The #4801 BREX kit has a reweigh date of 1962. http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4800/4801.jpg=20 "Pennsy modelers of the 40's and 50's want the 5th Ave Car shops version = of that car (under custom decorating on the Accurail site)....believe = me...I have 3 of the Accurails ready for repaints, once the microscale = decals come back into stock." 5th Ave Car Shops doesn't list any FGEX kits, but they do have them for = the BREX 1926-1952 paint scheme, as well as for cars leased to National = Car Company in 1950s and 1960s schemes: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/custom/carshops/carshops.pdf=20 Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0199_01C3BAB1.DCBDA660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bruce Smith wrote:
"Actually, I don't think so <VBG>! The car itself is an = excellent=20 model of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the = P&L on the=20 #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the reweigh = date is=20 1962!"
Don't you mean the BREX kit?  The Accurail model photo of = the=20 FGEX car has a reweigh date of 1954, and the scheme is almost = a dead ringer=20 for a 1945 builder's photo of FGEX 35204.
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Wo= od/Reefers-wood-FGE-1945.jpg
 
The #4801 BREX kit has a reweigh date of 1962.
http://www.ac= curail.com/accurail/art/4800/4801.jpg 
 
 
"Pennsy modelers of the 40's and 50's want the 5th Ave Car shops = version of=20 that car (under custom decorating on the Accurail site)....believe = me...I have 3=20 of the Accurails ready for repaints, once the microscale decals come = back into=20 stock."
 
5th Ave Car Shops doesn't list any FGEX kits, but they do have them = for the=20 BREX 1926-1952 paint scheme, as well as for cars leased to National = Car=20 Company in 1950s and 1960s schemes:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/custom/carshops/carshops.pdf&n= bsp;
 
 
Ben Hom
------=_NextPart_000_0199_01C3BAB1.DCBDA660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 on the Middle Division Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:17:08 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob, MP229 10/1/49: T1 #5517, 5528, 5533 - Fort Wayne Div. MP229 11/1/50: T1 #5528 - Columbus Div. T1 #5517, 5533 - Fort Wayne Div. MP229 10/1/51: T1 #5528, 5533 - Columbus Div. T1 #5517 - Fort Wayne Div. MP229 4/1/52: T1 #5528, 5533 - Columbus Div. T1 #5517 - not listed Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: To: PRR List Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:08 PM Subject: [PRR] T1 on the Middle Division > I am looking for information on which of the T1's were assigned to or > operated over the Middle Division in the 1950-52 timeframe. I'd like to use > one of the BLI T1's out-of-the-box; they will be numbered 5517, 5528, 5533. > Any photographic or other evidence that any of these operated over the Middle > Division in my target timeframe? Here's what I've come up with so far. > > 1954 MP229: 5543, 5545, 5547, 5549 > > Pennsy Power I: 5505, 5542 (no dates) > > Pennsy Steam A to T: 5540, 5548 (both 1947) > > Pennsy Steam Years I: 5508, 5530 (no dates) > > Thanks in advance. > > Bob Farquharson > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:11:21 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kids, Don't Try This at Home - Accurail PRR Reefer From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 08:59 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: >> Bruce Smith wrote: >> "Actually, I don't think so ! The car itself is an excellent =20 >> model of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the P&L = =20 >> on the #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the =20= >> reweigh date is 1962!" > Don't you mean the BREX kit?=A0 The Accurail=A0model photo of the FGEX = car =20 > has a reweigh date of 1954, and the scheme is almost a=A0dead ringer = for =20 > a 1945 builder's photo of FGEX 35204. > http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Reefers/Wood/Reefers-wood-=20= > FGE-1945.jpg > =A0 > The #4801 BREX kit has a reweigh date of 1962. > http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4800/4801.jpg=A0 OOOOOPS! Thats what I get for being in a rush!! Ben is right... The Accurail 4802 is a good "stand in" for a minor FGEX class of =20 reefer, post 1954 (needs a different underframe and minor paint fixes =20= for pre 1954) The Accurail 4801 is spot on for a BREX car, post 1962, and if you =20 repaint or get the 5th Ave car is great for earlier cars. The Accurail car noted by John would only serve as a "stand in" for a =20= PRR RF if you were legally blind and your guide dog needed glasses! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin =20= Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ = ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ = =20 | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | =20 ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| =20 |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4--15515089 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 08:59 PM, Benjamin Frank Hom wrote: Bruce Smith wrote: "Actually, I don't think so <! The car itself is an excellent model of the BREX reefer (or FGEX with a new unterframe), but the P&L on the #4802 accurail car is only suitable for post 1950's, and the reweigh date is 1962!" Don't you mean the BREX kit?=A0 The Accurail=A0model photo of the FGEX car has a reweigh date of 1954, and the scheme is almost a=A0dead ringer for a 1945 builder's photo of FGEX 35204. = 1999,1999,FFFFhttp://railroad.union.rpi.e= du/rolling-stock/Reefers/Wood/Reefers-wood-FGE-1945.jpg =A0 The #4801 BREX kit has a reweigh date of 1962. = 1999,1999,FFFFhttp://www.accurail.com/acc= urail/art/4800/4801.jpg=A0 OOOOOPS! Thats what I get for being in a rush!! Ben is right... The Accurail 4802 is a good "stand in" for a minor FGEX class of reefer, post 1954 (needs a different underframe and minor paint fixes for pre 1954) The Accurail 4801 is spot on for a BREX car, post 1962, and if you repaint or get the 5th Ave car is great for earlier cars. The Accurail car noted by John would only serve as a "stand in" for a PRR RF if you were legally blind and your guide dog needed glasses! Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. = =20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ =20 ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __=20 __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0= --Apple-Mail-4--15515089-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:23:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Accurail PRR Reefer From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 05:22 PM, John Frantz wrote: > My bottom line in this case, is that for the ease of the kit and price > (espescially a college student) the Accurail car is a nice car to have > in my reefer block. Once my dad and I mix some new colors the car will > be recieving some very heavy weathering anyway. > One more thing, since the Accuracy of Accurail has risen. About a > month ago we were discussing stock cars, are any of thier kits > semi-accurate. By Semi-accurate I mean a person not in RCA (Rivet > Counters Anonymous). Hi John, Not that I'm piling on, but... have you retreated to an era prior to 1934? I thought you modeled the transition era? The reason I ask is that the RF reefer was gone by 1934 and for that matter ANY reefer lettered for PRR in general service...Even if your not as date fixated as me, you probably want to avoid glaring era inconsistencies like those that appear in the latest MR... ;^) This is a nice project car to get your feet wet with a repaint and decal job...do it as a BREX car...100% accurate, you'll need to spend $2-4 for the paint, and $4 for the decals (but the decals do 2 cars and the paint...you'll need that for your Sunshine reefers too!!!!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6--14785132 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 05:22 PM, John Frantz wrote: My bottom line in this case, is that for the ease of the kit and price (espescially a college student) the Accurail car is a nice car to have in my reefer block. Once my dad and I mix some new colors the car will be recieving some very heavy weathering anyway. One more thing, since the Accuracy of Accurail has risen. About a month ago we were discussing stock cars, are any of thier kits semi-accurate. By Semi-accurate I mean a person not in RCA (Rivet Counters Anonymous). Hi John, Not that I'm piling on, but...< have you retreated to an era prior to 1934? I thought you modeled the transition era? The reason I ask is that the RF reefer was gone by 1934 and for that matter ANY reefer lettered for PRR in general service...Even if your not as date fixated as me, you probably want to avoid glaring era inconsistencies like those that appear in the latest MR... ;^) This is a nice project car to get your feet wet with a repaint and decal job...do it as a BREX car...100% accurate, you'll need to spend $2-4 for the paint, and $4 for the decals (but the decals do 2 cars and the paint...you'll need that for your Sunshine reefers too!!!!) Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6--14785132-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:03:58 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Wasn't Armstrong the name of the fellow who invented these things? Jim McDaniel, wondering in Delmarva ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:20:40 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Classification light question X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.154.83.15] at Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:20:28 -0600 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: First, John and Jeff get an "A" for correct terminology: Class Lights, not "Markers." Class lights will be unlit for a regular (scheduled) train and white for an extra train (not scheduled in the timetable). Green is used by a section of a schedule train that has a section following. The last section does not display green. Diesel and electric class light assemblies often could also display red, for use as markers when the engine was at the rear of a train running backward on a main track. They were not used for casual backup moves. When most steam engines had backup markers, they were mounted on the pilot beam. Steve Bartlett John Frantz wrote: Jeff, We had this discussion at railroad club Monday night. Red to the rear is correct, but the class lights should actually be White the the front. This is what my dad said, so maybe it's right. -John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:39:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 11:03 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: > Wasn't Armstrong the name of the fellow who invented these things? Jim, I'm not sure if your being serious or not so I'll answer...as best I can tell, these were originally called "strong arm" plants and the name got turned around as a sort of "inside" joke. I have found literature form the 1930s that uses "armstrong" in such a way indicating that at least the writer at that time thought of it as the double entendre. Of course, the term got applied to turntables that were human powered too. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-22-585576 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 11:03 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: Wasn't Armstrong the name of the fellow who invented these things? Jim, I'm not sure if your being serious or not < so I'll answer...as best I can tell, these were originally called "strong arm" plants and the name got turned around as a sort of "inside" joke. I have found literature form the 1930s that uses "armstrong" in such a way indicating that at least the writer at that time thought of it as the double entendre. Of course, the term got applied to turntables that were human powered too. Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-22-585576-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:12:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Classification light question From: "Weldon G" Subject: [PRR] Trach Charts - New Jersey Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:25:41 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Charter-MailScanner-Information: X-Charter-MailScanner: Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone out there have a copy, have access to a copy or know where I can get a copy of the track chart for the interlocking at "SC Cabin" in Jersey City???? I hope I'm using the correct description. The other charts I have look like what was on the "board" in the interlocking tower. Either a blue print or black print with the background dark and the details in white. All the best to you and yours Weldon All outgoing emails scanned with Norton Anti-virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: Classification light question Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:10:59 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 In-Reply-To: <1141463836-344850923@dsop.com> Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Re: The rules provide for some interesting variation in markers for trains operating on multiple tracks. On three or more tracks, when the train is running with the current of traffic, display to the rear red if the track on the side of the marker is for the opposite direction, and green/yellow if the track on the side of the marker is for the same direction. In case the train is running against the current of traffic, both markers show green/yellow to the rear, and a red light (lantern) is displayed on the platform of a passenger car or in the cupola of a cabin. In a nutshell, yes the PRR did use those rules. That should be covered in the February '04 edition of TKM. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:36:36 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 11:03 AM, James L. McDaniel wrote: Wasn't Armstrong the name of the fellow who invented these things? Bruce Smith replied: Jim, I'm not sure if your being serious or not so I'll answer...as best I can tell, these were originally called "strong arm" plants and the name got turned around as a sort of "inside" joke. I was only half joking. Further research has turned up little about the inventor who appears to have been English. From the US&S web site at http://www.switch.com/i_history.html ..... The patented invention of the electric closed track circuit by Dr. William Robinson in 1872 gave the railroad industry its first means of automatic vital signaling. The track circuit is used to detect the presence of a train or a broken rail within a block of track. When an electric current traveling through the rails in a block of track is shorted by the presence of a train or interrupted by a break in the rail, a red signal indicates danger to approaching trains. When the track is clear, the closed circuit activates a green signal to indicate that approaching trains can enter the block. In 1878, Dr. William Robinson founded the Union Electric Signal Co. to hold his patents, to produce track circuits, and to install them. This technology continues to be a foundation of rail signaling and communications today. As the rail system grew in the 1800's, tracks began to cross, giving rise to junctions, at which coordination between switches and signals was needed for safe and efficient operation. The first step in this coordination was concentrating the control of switches and signals in one location, first implemented in England. In the late 1850's, the separate switch and signal controls were interlocked so that their movements would succeed each other in a predetermined order. This technology was imported to the United States in the early 1870's, and in the mid-1870's, the first U.S. company was formed to manufacture interlockings. Jim McDaniel, still wondering in Delmarva, who was "Armstrong"? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Day" Subject: [PRR] Steubenville (OH) N6b Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:46:09 -0500 List, I am looking for information on the N6b that was assigned to the = Steubenville yard engine. I need to know about the lettering. White = stripe above "Pennsylvania" and "number"?. I know the road number was = 980777. Was it entered or offset cupola. I want to model this one from = a QC kit that I have here. Maybe I'm hoping against hope here, but a = photo would be super. =20 Doug ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3BBDD.C6ED1AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
List,
 
I am looking for information on the N6b = that was=20 assigned to the Steubenville yard engine.  I need to know about the = lettering.  White stripe above "Pennsylvania" and = "number"?.   I=20 know the road number was 980777.  Was it entered or offset = cupola.  I=20 want to model this one from a QC kit that I have here.  Maybe I'm = hoping=20 against hope here, but a photo would be super. 
 
Doug
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C3BBDD.C6ED1AA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 12:49:28 -0500 From: dave pierson Subject: Re: [PRR] Armstrong Lever Question Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: James L. McDaniel wrote > > Jim McDaniel, still wondering in Delmarva, who was "Armstrong"? (set mode Foghornleghorn) I Say: Its a Joke Suh. A PUN best dave p (Who has professional interlocking text back 1900 on the shelf.... 8)>>) (This is a sore point with some folk on the signal list, for Just This Reason: The Tag 'Armstrong' is a JOKE which sometimes gets missed...) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steubenville (OH) N6b Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 14:17:39 -0500 Doug, There is a John LaRue photo of N6b 980777 taken in 1951, place not = given. It shows that 980777 was a standard offset cupola N6b with the = standard lettering for that time - line above PENNSYLVANIA and line = below 980777. The assignment "Steubenville yard engine" was for May 15, = 1957. The car may still have had the same lettering, but it could have = been repainted and relettered in the shadow keystone style. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Douglas Day=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 9:46 AM Subject: [PRR] Steubenville (OH) N6b List, I am looking for information on the N6b that was assigned to the = Steubenville yard engine. I need to know about the lettering. White = stripe above "Pennsylvania" and "number"?. I know the road number was = 980777. Was it entered or offset cupola. I want to model this one from = a QC kit that I have here. Maybe I'm hoping against hope here, but a = photo would be super. =20 Doug ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C3BC03.B488E4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Doug,
 
There is a John LaRue photo of N6b 980777 taken in = 1951, place=20 not given.  It shows that 980777 was a standard offset cupola N6b = with the=20 standard lettering for that time - line above PENNSYLVANIA and line = below=20 980777.  The assignment "Steubenville yard engine" was for May 15,=20 1957.  The car may still have had the same lettering, but it could = have=20 been repainted and relettered in the shadow keystone style.
 
Bob Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Douglas=20 Day
Sent: Saturday, December 06, = 2003 9:46=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Steubenville = (OH)=20 N6b

List,
 
I am looking for information on the = N6b that was=20 assigned to the Steubenville yard engine.  I need to know about = the=20 lettering.  White stripe above "Pennsylvania" and = "number"?.  =20 I know the road number was 980777.  Was it entered or offset=20 cupola.  I want to model this one from a QC kit that I have = here. =20 Maybe I'm hoping against hope here, but a photo would be = super. =20
 
Doug
------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01C3BC03.B488E4E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] The Keystone Modeler #4 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:42:10 -0500 Jim Williams recently wrote "Excellent job! You may have to consider making this available in print form!" Thanx Jim. Just to reiterate to all, TKM is available on the Society's website in both HTML and PDF formats. The PDF version is printer friendly and makes for a nice hardcopy magazine. It's available to all to print out. In another vein, there has been some discussion regarding eventually making TKM available as a hardcopy, but we don't really know yet if that will ever come to pass. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C3BCFA.349EBCD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Jim Williams recently wrote = "Excellent=20 job!  You may have to consider making this available in print=20 form!"
 
Thanx Jim.
 
Just to reiterate to all, TKM is = available=20 on the Society's website in both HTML and PDF formats. The PDF = version is=20 printer friendly and makes for a nice hardcopy magazine. It's available = to all=20 to print out.
 
In another vein, there has been = some=20 discussion regarding eventually making TKM available as a hardcopy, = but we=20 don't really know yet if that will ever come to pass.
 
Al
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C3BCFA.349EBCD0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:25:21 EST Subject: [PRR] CCS PRR P85br as a kit There seems to be a lot of interest in the this coach as a kit. So, are we really interested in it, and if so, what would it take in prepaid orders to have it produced? Ron S. are you interested in considering this or have the RTR car sales diminished the market beyond consideration? Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1070853921 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  There seems to be a lot of interest in the this coach as a kit.&= nbsp; So, are we really interested in it, and if so, what would it take in p= repaid orders to have it produced?
 
  Ron S. are you interested in considering this or have the R= TR car sales diminished the market beyond consideration? 
 
Evan Leisey
RCT&HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phi= la.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1070853921-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AUGUSTOMINARDI@cs.com Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:37:25 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Tructrain Decals X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 107 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Happy Holidays SPF's; Does anyone know where I can find some sets of Middle Division HO Scale Pennsy Tructrain Decals, set # HFL-1. Middle Division makes a beautiful set specifally made for PRR F-39 Class 75' Flatcars, but I am having difficulty finding any. I've tried Northern Central Supply to no avail. If anyone has any sets of these decals in their inventory and would like to sell them, please let me know. Thanks in advance, Gus Minardi HO Scale PRR Freak ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:14:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harry Stegmaier From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <6F0D62FE-29AA-11D8-B259-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Anyone know of an e-mail address for Harry Stegmaier? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:19:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] The Great MS60 Debate From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <17690EE5-29AB-11D8-B259-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Fifth verse...but with new insight! I don't know Harry Stegmaier's background, as his new book on PRR consists does not include an "About the Author" column, but the many consists depicted in the book (based on 1952) mirror what I have published online for 1954. HOWEVER, he has some additional notations and I am curious about the source. For many of the cars he has both a "Type" and a "Description" listed. For many of the cars whose "Type" is MS-60, he has listed as the "Description" X29!!! Our previous discussions have come to the loose conclusion that an MS60 -- which was once a real car -- called for a car with 60' of mail storage space. Thus, a B60 could fit the bill, but an X29 could not. Stegmaier shows many (dozens) of cases where the MS60 is detailed as an X29! He also notes that during the 1950's the PRR started using horse cars and scenery cars as stand-ins for other head end equipment. Might they also count as MS60's? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:26:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] The Great MS60 Debate From: Jerry Britton In-Reply-To: <17690EE5-29AB-11D8-B259-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> Message-Id: <186A53CF-29AC-11D8-B259-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, December 8, 2003, at 01:19 PM, Jerry Britton wrote: > HOWEVER, he has some additional notations and I am curious about the > source. For many of the cars he has both a "Type" and a "Description" > listed. For many of the cars whose "Type" is MS-60, he has listed as > the "Description" X29!!! I've now come across 1957 documentation that does the same...in some calls for MS60 it specifies X29. Still no place have I found a list of all classes that "could" be considered MS60. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] RE: [PRR-Modeling] Digest Number 906 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:37:58 -0800

Folks;

=

 

=

I think Al is being entirely too = hard on himself as an editor.  I = think issue #5 was dynamite.  Seeing = as how this magazine is largely the success it is based on his leadership and hard = work, and the fact that he is paid nothing for his efforts, I don't think = that he and Jack are recognized enough.  = I know that as Committee Chair, we would not be anywhere near where we = are without them.  All the = efforts we are pursuing in getting the word out would be paltry if not for = TKM.

 

=

The T1 was too cool for = words.  Plus, Al and Lin's info, and = the way it was presented, was a real first.  Congrats, Al, Jack and all the contributors to this month's = issue.

 

=

Elden = Gatwood

Representing a grateful Modeling = Committee

 

=

 


------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BDBA.66C180B0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:31:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] The Great MS60 Debate From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Monday, December 8, 2003, at 03:17 PM, Bob Zoeller wrote: > There are multiple consist listings over the years which refer to X29 > after > "MS60". The term does get confusing as some have pointed out(I think > you > were referring to it as well) that at one time, the MS60 apparently > referred > to a specific type of car, to wit a B60 with mail stanchions. That was one theory pushed last time around. The leading theory dealt with amount of space. This go round, with the references by Stegmaier and the 1957 book from the Philadelphia Division, are the first times I have specifically seen the smaller X29 mentioned. > > I have to dig into some RPO info I picked up in the last year to see > if > there are any clues as the post office rules on mail storage,that > is,does > the MS60 refer to allocated space, not a particular car? It is clear > they > specified the working mail RPO space, dunno about storage space. I > asked > the same question on the Passenger Car list, but the answers weren't > crystal > clear. I was asking in reference to the 50 foot Burlington converted > troop > kitchen cars used for mail storage, as seen on Pennsy trains. A working car (RPO) would be a BM series car. The MS60 was specifically "storage only" which is noted in many places. I have noticed some places that say "BM70m" and others which say "BM70 with 30 foot apartment", which should be the same thing. (I think!) > > BTW, in the archives on the subject, I asked if the 10 X40b mail > storage > cars had the stanchions. From a Keystone paragraph or two on the > subject, it > appears they did. Do you mean the X42's? > > Things get even more fun when you look at references in the Stegmeier > book > to B60s used for mail and express or baggage and mail. The differentiation I saw was "MS" for "Mail Storage" vs. "Express" which could include baggage, express, or mail. The former appears to be "mail only". At times, there are X29's designated in both cases. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:04:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MS60, According to Stegmaier From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <3C05F85A-2A48-11D8-9F18-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: It's amazing, and scary, how easy it is to find info on people on the net. Had I known it would have been this easy, I wouldn't have asked for an e-mail address for Harry Stegmaier yesterday. Turns out, I tracked down his home address and phone number in about three minutes....and this for a person who isn't online and hates computers! I gave him a call and he was more than happy to discuss several issues about his book and the ever-elusive MS60. We were "real close", according to him, on what determined an MS60. It wasn't square footage of storage space, but cubic footage of storage space. He didn't have the number at hand, but he said the X29 qualified as it was slightly higher than other cars of its length. Although I have not looked up specs for the X29, a quick look on my shelf of models (yes, I have some HO models) confirmed that the Red Caboose X29 is a little higher than many of the other cars. Mr. Stegmaier was saying this from memory, and not quoting specific sources, but since it is along the lines of what we'd been discussing on the list, and since the height issue adds credibility, it probably is fact to some degree. So, as of the 1950's -- long after the demise of the "real" MS60 class -- and MS60 requirement in a consist was commonly filled with a B60, an R50b, or an X29. As mentioned in the book, they also used horse cars and scenery cars for this use as well. Any car that was available that had the requisite cubic footage of storage space. A BM class car would not typically have been used, though they would have qualified, as they were in short supply at the time. Next item: The preface of Stegmaier's book mentions a "volume two" to cover north-south trains. I was hoping this was a "Holy Grail" of info on the Washington-Baltimore to Williamsport-Erie-Buffalo trains, but no such luck. Mr. Stegmaier has hit the same brick wall as I have. The data continues to be very elusive. The second book will cover trains on Washington-Philadelphia-New York (aka Northeast Corridor). However, the book is a few years out as B&O and Santa Fe books are ahead of it on the priority list. Mr. Stegmaier apologizes for the tardiness of the release of the first book. He had to deal with two funerals and two estate settlements. Then the book was done last spring and the person(s) doing the electronic prepress work sat on it for six months. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mitoraj Thomas-Q12119 Subject: [PRR] Penn. Commuter Service into Chicago Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:34:44 -0600 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgSFRUUC1FUVVJVj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBDT05U RU5UPSJ0ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXMtYXNjaWkiPg0KPFRJVExFPk1lc3NhZ2U8L1RJVExF Pg0KDQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgNS41MC40OTIyLjkwMCIgbmFtZT1HRU5FUkFUT1I+ PC9IRUFEPg0KPEJPRFk+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIGZhY2U9QXJpYWwgc2l6ZT0yPjxTUEFOIGNsYXNz PTc1ODAwMzExNS0wOTEyMjAwMz5JIGFtIHdyaXRpbmcgDQphJm5ic3A7YXJ0aWNsZSBvbiBSb2Nr IElzbGFuZCZuYnNwO2NvbW11dGVyIHNlcnZpY2UgaW4gQ2hpY2FnbyBhbmQgd2FudGVkIHRvIA0K aW5jbHVkZSBzb21lIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9uIFBlbm4uIHBhc3NlbmdlciBzZXJ2aWNlIGludG8g Q2hpY2FnbywgZ2l2ZW4gdGhhdCB0aGUgDQpsaW5lcyBjcm9zc2VkLiZuYnNwOyBJcyB0aGVyZSBz b21lb25lIG9uIHRoZSBsaXN0IHdobyBpcyBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIHRoaXMgYW5kIA0KY291bGQg c2hhcmUmbmJzcDtzb21lIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHdpdGggbWU/PC9TUEFOPjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj4N CjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1BcmlhbCBzaXplPTI+PFNQQU4gDQpjbGFzcz03NTgwMDMxMTUtMDkx MjIwMDM+PC9TUEFOPjwvRk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1BcmlhbCBz aXplPTI+PFNQQU4gY2xhc3M9NzU4MDAzMTE1LTA5MTIyMDAzPlRvbSANCk1pdG9yYWo8L1NQQU4+ PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJViBhbGlnbj1sZWZ0PjxGT05UIGZhY2U9QXJpYWwgc2l6ZT0yPjwv Rk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVYgYWxpZ249bGVmdD48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPUFyaWFsIHNpemU9 Mj48L0ZPTlQ+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3BE69.72FFD71E-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: [PRR] 3768 color chart Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:18:10 -0600 Things are too quiet, so I thought I would raise the question about the = paint and lettering chart for the streamlined K4 in the Winter Keystone. = I was intrigued by two items: 1. The basic color is specified as "Dark Bronze". Though that is one = common description of the color of this loco, Raymond Loewy has = previously been cited as specifying it as "Gunmetal". Even if the = color was dark bronze, that is the first blueprint I have seen with the = term. OTOH, if now we are finding "Brunswick Green" on color charts, I = guess it is time to find "Dark Bronze". 2. Same chart lists the Keystones as Tuscan Red. That is a surprise to = me as well, as I fully expected the usual "Toluidine Red". So we have three choices, some overlapping: Raymond Loewy's spec, PRR = diagrams, and whatever actually got on the locomotive. This is as elusive as photos and diagrams of P70KR and P70GSR coaches. = Or the Chicago-Florida Southland and South Wind (not listed as possibly = being covered in the next Stegmeier book,BTW). Bob Zoeller ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3BE56.E4B26FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Things are too quiet, so I thought I = would raise=20 the question about the paint and lettering chart for the streamlined K4 = in the=20 Winter Keystone.  I was intrigued by two items:
1. The basic color is specified as = "Dark=20 Bronze".  Though that is one common description of the color of = this loco,=20 Raymond Loewy has previously been  cited as specifying it as=20 "Gunmetal".  Even if the color was dark bronze, that is the first = blueprint=20 I have seen with the term. OTOH, if now we are finding "Brunswick Green" = on=20 color charts, I guess it is time to find "Dark Bronze".
2. Same chart lists the Keystones as = Tuscan=20 Red.  That is a surprise to me as well, as I fully expected the = usual=20 "Toluidine Red".
 
So we have three choices, some = overlapping: Raymond=20 Loewy's spec, PRR diagrams, and whatever actually got on the=20 locomotive.
 
This is as elusive as photos and = diagrams of P70KR=20 and P70GSR coaches. Or the Chicago-Florida Southland and South Wind (not = listed=20 as possibly being covered in the next Stegmeier book,BTW).
 
Bob Zoeller
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3BE56.E4B26FB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] 3768 color chart Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:01:44 -0500 From: Bob Zoeller [mailto:bobspf@wi.rr.com] Subject: [PRR] 3768 color chart size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Zoeller PM
To: PRR-Talk
Subject: [PRR] 3768 color Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:37:50 -0500 From: "Vagel C. Keller, Jr." Subject: [PRR] Re: Harry Stegmaier Content-Disposition: inline Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: --On Tuesday, December 9, 2003 1:10 -0500 Jerry asked: > Anyone know of an e-mail address for Harry Stegmaier? Harry eschews computers. He writes things out on legal pads and pays his former history department secretary to type them up. And he is perfectly happy with the USPS. Harry has asked me to forward any emailed questions or comments about his railroad history books to him and post his responses. I'll be happy to do that off-list. Vagel Keller Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DRUSCHEL@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:12:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR on CMT The 40 Greatest Men of County Music is on CMT tonight (12/9/03) at 8PM Susan Druschel -------------------------------1071018720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
The 40 Greatest Men of County Music is on CMT tonight (12/9/0= 3) at 8PM
 
Susan Druschel
 
 
-------------------------------1071018720-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Williams" Subject: Re: [PRR] The Keystone Modeler #4 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:45:29 -0500 MessageI am amazed at just how great this resource is. Those of you = behind this effort are truely doing a great job. Thank you, Craig ------=_NextPart_000_027E_01C3BE95.62003090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
I am amazed at just how great this resource = is.  Those of=20 you behind this effort are truely doing a great job.
 
Thank you,
 
Craig
------=_NextPart_000_027E_01C3BE95.62003090-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] P85br HO cars Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:32:36 -0500 Has anyone on the list figured out a way to get into the P85br cars to = glue the seats down? I would be interested in a safe way to do this. Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C3BE9B.F6F733F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Has anyone on the list figured out a = way to get=20 into the P85br cars to glue the seats down?  I would be interested = in a=20 safe way to do this.
 
Jeff Smith
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C3BE9B.F6F733F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] P85br HO cars Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:45:52 -0600 Hi Jeff--I do not have a P85br, but there has been a lot of discussion = about them over on the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. Try = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/ Apparently, it is somewhat easy to remove one side.=20 Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL=20 ------=_NextPart_000_03AA_01C3BEAE.94CAA000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Jeff--I do not have a P85br, but = there has been=20 a lot of discussion about them over on the Passenger Car List on = Yahoo. =20 Try  http://groups.ya= hoo.com/group/PassengerCarList/
 
Apparently, it is somewhat easy to = remove one=20 side. 
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_03AA_01C3BEAE.94CAA000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:45:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Harry Stegmaier From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 05:37 PM, Vagel C. Keller, Jr. wrote: > --On Tuesday, December 9, 2003 1:10 -0500 Jerry asked: > >> Anyone know of an e-mail address for Harry Stegmaier? > > Harry eschews computers. He writes things out on legal pads and pays > his former history department secretary to type them up. And he is > perfectly happy with the USPS. > > Harry has asked me to forward any emailed questions or comments about > his railroad history books to him and post his responses. I'll be > happy to do that off-list. Vagel, as I reported yesterday, I did make contact (phone) with him. Thanks. His book is selling pretty well. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] R50b's Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:15:07 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:06:17 -0600 Subject: [PRR] MOW assignment lettering and photo... From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hello, It seems I just recently saw a photo of a PRR crawler crane on a carrier car circa 1939...IIRC the crane appears to be black, the shot was a rear 3/4 and there was a man standing to the right side...and now I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this! I checked TKM, and it wasn't in Elden's gon series...anyone have any ideas?? A second question comes up regarding the lettering of carrier and idler cars. In reading the lettering diagram for crawler cranes (Thanks Jack!) it appears that the assignment lettering ("assigned to carrier car...") was not used prior to circa 1950. Were other assignment lettering used on MOW equipment prior to 1950? I am thinking, of course of lettering on the carrier car and idler denoting their assignment to the crawler crane. I am at the stage of lettering a carrier car and crawler and the lack of these would make life easier Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-12-437780350 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Hello, It seems I just recently saw a photo of a PRR crawler crane on a carrier car circa 1939...IIRC the crane appears to be black, the shot was a rear 3/4 and there was a man standing to the right side...and now I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this! I checked TKM, and it wasn't in Elden's gon series...anyone have any ideas?? A second question comes up regarding the lettering of carrier and idler cars. In reading the lettering diagram for crawler cranes (Thanks Jack!) it appears that the assignment lettering ("assigned to carrier car...") was not used prior to circa 1950. Were other assignment lettering used on MOW equipment prior to 1950? I am thinking, of course of lettering on the carrier car and idler denoting their assignment to the crawler crane. I am at the stage of lettering a carrier car and crawler and the lack of these would make life easier < Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-12-437780350-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] MR comment on the BLI T1 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:17:03 +0000 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:35:09 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Make Up of Trains 1929 From: Greg Ritacco Message-Id: <1C8E9AAC-2B61-11D8-9A08-000A959FDA52@surewest.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-TST: smtp2 SNWK2 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, Just a note to say that Rob Schoenberg recently posted a Make Up of Trains, 1929 pamphlet that I retyped (which I found faster than OCR) and set in its original size. This is one of my favorite documents, from my miniature collection. It looks to me like it's not just which type of car, but even in which order, see train #5. Also, the interchange information is fascinating, at least to me. It's a good glimpse into daily operations. Anyway, since I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you, I thought this is a contribution I can easily make. Enjoy and happy holidays. Greg. http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:39:48 -0500 From: Dave McNeil Subject: [PRR] P85BR trucks X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi all, Recently received 4 of these beautiful cars and came up with a minor problem that all of you who have bought these cars might want to check out. One car wouldn't track well and after a lot of checking I found that one of the roller bearing retainer plates had fallen off allowing the springs to force the bearing housing almost out of the bearing box. The retainer is a strip of flat bar approx. 1/4" x 1/8" x 1/16" with two holes that receive tangs protruding from the bottom of the bearing box. It looks as if the retainer is cemented in place (mine wasn't)! After complete search of the layout I gave up and was putting it back in the box when the retainer slid out from the end of the carton. I installed it, squeezed the tangs slightly and then cemented it in place with a tiny smear of ACC. Problem was solved and the car ran perfectly the rest of the evening. I checked the other three cars and found no problems with the other retainers and would advise you all to do the same. Regards & Happy Holidays Dave McNeil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:18:41 -0500 From: Bill Subject: [PRR] PRR layout in newest MR Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just a heads up that the 70th anniversary issue of Model Railroader (January, 2004) has an eight page layout on the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum's HO layout built by Clarke Dunham. The layout, which is 13 feet by 48 feet, depicts Altoona during the 1940's/1950's so needless to say it's something that all those not fortunate enough to have seen it in real life can at least see it in miniature. Buy the magazine and visit the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jplfans@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:40:50 EST Subject: [PRR] prr in newest mr I am not pleased with the prr layout in the altoona museum.as a professional model company,there should be an accurate description of Altoona,at least a part of the city as it was,not a general model with the name Altoona.Kalmbach and the MR staff seems to write,and endorse those that do this type of proto-phototype modelling,and for what they have in resources,it really is sad,Us scratcbuilders study,study,and study, photos,dims,drawings,plans,etc. to get it right....For love of the hobby,but believe you me,if I was contracted to build a model of an area like Altoona or Chicago,or even Emery Grove,it would be recognizable as such...Now that I have shot my mouth off,I'll go back to figuring out a way to lay out a section of Wrightsville... Jeff Jacobs -------------------------------1071110450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I am not pleased with the prr layout in the altoona museum.as a profession= al model company,there should be an accurate description of Altoona,at least= a part of the city as it was,not a general model with the name Altoona.Kalm= bach and the MR staff seems to write,and endorse those that do this type of=20= proto-phototype modelling,and for what they have in resources,it really is s= ad,Us scratcbuilders study,study,and study, photos,dims,drawings,plans,etc.=20= to get it right....For love of the hobby,but believe you me,if I was contrac= ted to build a model of an area like Altoona or Chicago,or even Emery Grove,= it would be recognizable as such...Now that I have shot my mouth off,I'll go= back to figuring out a way to lay out a section of Wrightsville...
Jeff Jacobs
-------------------------------1071110450-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Baker" Subject: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:55:19 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most accurate? I'd like to acquire a couple dozen of 'em, primarily to flesh out some of my secondary train consists, but will use some in local freight trains too. Thanks for your input. Chris Baker #1918 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:01:06 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. On another note, the limit to what a company does with a layout is in the money spent. I've just recently been employed at a custom layout design company. In addition to layouts we also have the ability to custom design structures with the use of an acrylic laser cutter. I can speculate that if our company would have been given the layout contract we would have done at least one 'Altoona Accurate" building on the layout. In the end it still comes down to how much money do you wish to spend. One of the first few things I asked after being hired was cost of doing a custom building. What it comes down to is size. The cost to do a "big city" station such as Philadelphia's 30th Street station would be estimated at around $3,000 whther its in N scale or Gauge 1 its all reletive to size. Gentelmen, i've only been employed for four weeks. My eyes have been opened to so much already. You can pick up a book, read the cover, and put it back, but until you open it up and read it and look into why an author did it in a certain way it's unfair to judge. Granted, the Altoona layout, just like the museum, has been finished for many years and is availible to the scrutiny of those on the list. Many will come to criticize, srcutinize, suggest, badger, and bug. It is the one who takes a step above the rest and gives the money, the time, the effort that makes the final call. Until that can be recognized and achieved the scrutiny will remain forever silenced. Thats my opinion and let it be said that I gave my $10.00 worth. -John PS- For those wondering, the company i work for makes accurate kits including a bank modeled off of one in Williamsport, PA and the American Brewery in Baltimore. If that isn't enough of a hint, they also make a Bromo-Seltzer tower kit and a City Station that is based on Penn Station in Baltimore. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:07:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Jeff and List, > > In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just > recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. > As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I > have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though > nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire > firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-502679558 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-2-502679558-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:34:42 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Christopher Baker wrote: > I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have > recently > come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a > thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most > accurate? Chris, Where ya been dude? RECENTLY? The X29s on the market have been out for quite a few years now...perhaps you are looking at the latest RTR releases of these models? Walthers - cheap (that's about all I'll say ) Red Caboose - the gold standard in styrene. Lots of variations...plate end, Dreadnought ends, 1924, 1928 bodies, lots of paint schemes. Kits are still available, in limited numbers and from eBay. New releases primarily sold as RTR from RC. Tichy - announced an X29 a decade ago, never released. Sunshine - resin X29s, out of production, some with patch panels, eBay (and expensive) Brass - some brass cars are good, some are rocks, all cost more than RC... Many folks have been waiting for X29 rebuilds in styrene...they are still waiting. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-504285991 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 09:55 PM, Christopher Baker wrote: I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most accurate? Chris, Where ya been dude? RECENTLY? The X29s on the market have been out for quite a few years now...perhaps you are looking at the latest RTR releases of these models? Walthers - cheap (that's about all I'll say <) Red Caboose - the gold standard in styrene. Lots of variations...plate end, Dreadnought ends, 1924, 1928 bodies, lots of paint schemes. Kits are still available, in limited numbers and from eBay. New releases primarily sold as RTR from RC. Tichy - announced an X29 a decade ago, never released. Sunshine - resin X29s, out of production, some with patch panels, eBay (and expensive) Brass - some brass cars are good, some are rocks, all cost more than RC... Many folks have been waiting for X29 rebuilds in styrene...they are still waiting. Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-6-504285991-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:59:25 -0500 From: Bruce Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith Jplfans@aol.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 07:17:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000 et al. 12th revision From: b.hom@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] X29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:46:17 +0000 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March 1954 MP229. Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger trains into Harrisburg from points east. Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. By 1954 there were no BP class units in service. Of the passenger units rostered, the breakdown is as follows: 74 EMD E8A units (Class EP22)...45% 49 EMD E7A units (Class EP20)...30%...39% collectively 14 EMD E7B units (Class EP20)...9% (caution: commonly ran with E8's) 10 Alco PA1 units (Class AP20)...9% collectively 5 Alco PB1 units (Class AP20) 8 EMD FP7A units (Class EFP15) ...7% collectively 4 EMD FP7B units (Class EFP15) The above percentages do NOT take into account any steam still in passenger service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh...only diesel. I figure the two Alco lashups that I have on hand should suffice; add to that an FP lashup if they ever come out. Then the rest should be a reasonable balance between E7's and E8's. Throw in a little steam for good measure. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:46:00 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Thread-Index: AcPAE7osnL/tYtVKTlSYYsxWcBsO2gAAzarg From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Jerry Britton" , "PRR-Talk LIST" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 18:46:00.0941 (UTC) FILETIME=[05BAB9D0:01C3C017] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:08 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the=20 Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm=20 sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March=20 1954 MP229. Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger=20 trains into Harrisburg from points east. Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine=20 house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units=20 allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh=20 Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them=20 all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from=20 Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. By 1954 there were no BP class units in service. Of the passenger units=20 rostered, the breakdown is as follows: 74 EMD E8A units (Class EP22)...45% 49 EMD E7A units (Class EP20)...30%...39% collectively 14 EMD E7B units (Class EP20)...9% (caution: commonly ran with E8's) 10 Alco PA1 units (Class AP20)...9% collectively 5 Alco PB1 units (Class AP20) 8 EMD FP7A units (Class EFP15) ...7% collectively 4 EMD FP7B units (Class EFP15) The above percentages do NOT take into account any steam still in=20 passenger service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh...only diesel. I figure the two Alco lashups that I have on hand should suffice; add=20 to that an FP lashup if they ever come out. Then the rest should be a=20 reasonable balance between E7's and E8's. Throw in a little steam for=20 good measure. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:49:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? As my post said, I was only passing on info that I researched for my own use, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions. I did not look further west. There were 19 divisions in 1954. Feel free to review an MP229 as it pertains to your own needs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] Dunham's Altoona Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:16:32 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Subject: RE: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:10:00 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Thread-Index: AcPAGkBXZdA011qkQ8W1G4A1jGNdewAABZEQ From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "Jerry Britton" Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2003 19:10:04.0779 (UTC) FILETIME=[6252EBB0:01C3C01A] Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Just asked out of curiosity. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:49 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Cadwell, Marvin L wrote: > Where were the diesels assigned that operated west of Pittburgh? As my post said, I was only passing on info that I researched for my=20 own use, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions. I did=20 not look further west. There were 19 divisions in 1954. Feel free to=20 review an MP229 as it pertains to your own needs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:58:28 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry: The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... Jeff > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:17:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Jeff Warner wrote: > The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD > Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... The Centipedes were actually still pretty new then. They arrived in 1947, when the PRR was buying "samples" of practically every locomotive made. It took a few years until they gave in to the fact that they just weren't reliable. They regeared them for helper service, painted them in the freight scheme, and reclassified them as BH50's. The BH50's are listed in the Pittsburgh Division as of 1954. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:47:19 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jeff, Bill Lewis, a friend of mine, has pictures his dad took of a pair sitting at York Station with one the 'Limited' trains. in 1948 or 49. -John Jeff wrote: Jerry: The Northern Central book shows centipedes on passenger trains (MD Div) dated 1949, so it must be very early 1950's they were removed... Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Museum Layouts Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:53:24 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gentelmen, For the record, the company i'm working for is Custom Model Railroads based out of Baltimore. www.cmrtrain.com Currently we are completeing a 1:32 scale model of LaSalle Street Station in Chicago (B&O) and as of Tuesday, benchwork was finished on a new B&O Museum layout. The B&O is slated to be done in August and i'm looking forward to constructive criticism after it is debuted. Primarily a B&O layout it will have some Western Maryland and Pennsylvania RR influence. It will be aproximately 10'x50'. Regards, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Fw: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:04:57 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: > If you want them buy the dozen's I'd suggest the red caboose X29's. You > didn't say what year you model but using my era of 1957 as a reference, I'd > get 18 circle keystone, flat steel ends, 2 circle dreadnaught ends, and 3 > Shadow Keystone cars, and 1 Merchandise service car. Depending on the > passenger train breakdown on your layout you may want some in express > service also. I'm probably off on the ratio and Ben Hom or Bruce Smith will > correct me. Chris you should know there are no dashes in PRR Classes, > except the H-2a hopper but that was really N&W. > > If you enjoy building resin kits Sunshine made very nice X29 models > including ones with patch panels, however I believe they are out of > production. I don't have the newest Sunshine list. > > If you quantity over quality or don't have a lot of money to spend. The > older TM and Walthers X29's that can still be found at swap meets. > > Why your secondary trains and locals? X29 were still everywhere in the late > 40's and into the 50's until the X29b and X29d rebuilds started to impact > the straight X29 classes numbers. > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > PRRT&HS 4919 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Baker" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:55 PM > Subject: [PRR] X-29 boxcars - Who has the best HO-scale model? > > > > I know that at least a couple of manufacturers/distributors have recently > > come outh with or announced X-29 boxcar models. So does anyone have a > > thought they'd be willing to share on which model is the best and most > > accurate? > > > > I'd like to acquire a couple dozen of 'em, primarily to flesh out some of > my > > secondary train consists, but will use some in local freight trains too. > > > > Thanks for your input. > > > > Chris Baker #1918 > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:25:11 -0500 Since no one brought it up yet, look at the end of the GG1 on page 143. = At least "it" belongs in a museum. LOL. Thanks Bruce now the first = thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the catenary. Did the PRR ever = have a building that said X-ray?=20 Someone mentioned that we should donate models to the museum. At least = one person on this list has, and I do not see Greg Martin's F-units = anywhere. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: John Frantz=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Jplfans@aol.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr=20 On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John Frantz wrote: Jeff and List, In some espects I can agree wth you. My father and I were just = recently discussing this after I saw the post and made mention of it. As = a layout I think it's very well done. The problem my father and I have = is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It seems as though nobody = has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a Bellpaire firebox. Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in the back corner? I counted at least = three major errors in the rolling stock area. Add to that the problem of = MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in the issue (for me). I = know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd stick to the "if you = can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is out of the = bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they do = have an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm = willing to bet that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even = models to rectify these issues...so how does one politely let the museum = know what the problems are(?) since the museum is something I think we = would all like to support! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| = |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C3C014.1CFFA220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Since no one brought it up yet, look at = the end of=20 the GG1 on page 143. At least "it" belongs in a museum.  LOL. = Thanks Bruce=20 now the first thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the = catenary. Did=20 the PRR ever have a building that said X-ray?
 
Someone mentioned that we should donate = models to=20 the museum.  At least one person on this list has, and I do not see = Greg=20 Martin's F-units anywhere.
 
Brian J Carlson
Cheektowaga = NY
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Jplfans@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, = 2003 9:07=20 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in = newest mr=20

On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 10:01 PM, John = Frantz=20 wrote:

Jeff and List,

In some espects I can agree wth you. = My=20 father and I were just recently discussing this after I saw the post = and=20 made mention of it. As a layout I think it's very well done. The = problem my=20 father and I have is the accuracy of the rolling stock itself. It = seems as=20 though nobody has taken the time to even build a Bowser kit with a = Bellpaire=20 firebox.


Yeah, like is that an IHB 0-8-0 in = the back=20 corner? I counted at least three major errors in the rolling stock = area. Add=20 to that the problem of MR's dreck for copy, and it was a low point in = the=20 issue (for me). I know I'm a cranky rivet counter, so I figured I'd = stick to=20 the "if you can't say something good..." rule, but since the cat is = out of the=20 bag... I don't want to "bash" the museum, but on the other hand, they = do have=20 an obligation to present historically correct information. I'm willing = to bet=20 that folks on this list would donate time/effort...even models to = rectify=20 these issues...so how does one politely let the museum know what the = problems=20 are(?) since the museum is something I think we would all like to=20 support!

Happy=20 Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith = V.M.D.,=20 Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850=20 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof = that God=20 loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin
__
/ = \
__<+--+>________________\__/___=20 ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | = __ __ __=20 __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_________________________= ____\|_|____________________________________|
|=20 O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C3C014.1CFFA220-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:46:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Hi Brian, Yes, the PRR did have a building marked "X-Ray" in Altoona. It was near 17th street; where the Station Mall is now. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:44:59 -0500 After looking a little more closely at the photos of the museum layout, = it is a truly amazing mish-mash of power that was thrown on the tracks = there!! The loco at the furthest right rear is of all things, an = American Flyer HO scale NYC Hudson, missing quite a few parts! The loco = to its left on the same track is a K4 (Bachmann I assume), but with the = tender for an IHB 0-8-0! Then there are not one but two IHC Moguls = lettered for "Pennsylvania Lines". While Lines West did have Moguls with = center headlights at one time, they didn't resemble an SP 2-6-0 and were = not likely to be found in Altoona. I hadn't seen an American Flyer HO Hudson in years, but the white driver = tires are a dead giveaway. Too bad they didn't get the other AF HO = engine, it was a PRR B6sb! That Hudson's gotta go, IMHO. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Brian J Carlson=20 To: Bruce Smith=20 Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in newest mr=20 Since no one brought it up yet, look at the end of the GG1 on page = 143. At least "it" belongs in a museum. LOL. Thanks Bruce now the first = thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the catenary. Did the PRR ever = have a building that said X-ray?=20 Someone mentioned that we should donate models to the museum. At = least one person on this list has, and I do not see Greg Martin's = F-units anywhere. Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ------=_NextPart_000_024E_01C3C027.A4EDA0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
After looking a little more closely at the photos of = the=20 museum layout, it is a truly amazing mish-mash of power that was thrown = on the=20 tracks there!! The loco at the furthest right rear is of all things, an = American=20 Flyer HO scale NYC Hudson, missing quite a few parts! The loco to its = left on=20 the same track is a K4 (Bachmann I assume), but with the tender for an = IHB=20 0-8-0!  Then there are not one but two IHC Moguls lettered for=20 "Pennsylvania Lines". While Lines West did have Moguls with center = headlights at=20 one time, they didn't resemble an SP 2-6-0 and were not likely to be = found in=20 Altoona.
 
I hadn't seen an American Flyer HO Hudson in years, = but the=20 white driver tires are a dead giveaway. Too bad they didn't get the = other AF HO=20 engine, it was a PRR B6sb! That Hudson's gotta go, IMHO.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Brian J=20 Carlson
Sent: Thursday, December 11, = 2003 6:25=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] prr in = newest mr=20

Since no one brought it up yet, look = at the end=20 of the GG1 on page 143. At least "it" belongs in a museum.  LOL. = Thanks=20 Bruce now the first thing I see it the IHB loco. I also like the=20 catenary. Did the PRR ever have a building that said X-ray? =
 
Someone mentioned that we should = donate models to=20 the museum.  At least one person on this list has, and I do not = see Greg=20 Martin's F-units anywhere.
 
Brian J Carlson
Cheektowaga = NY
 
------=_NextPart_000_024E_01C3C027.A4EDA0C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000 et al. 12th revision From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:29:53 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, This is one of those cases where the MP229 can be misleading. They list the assignment of locomotives for their monthly maintenance, not necessarily operational assignments. The E-unit fleet was maintained in that "significant enginehouse" at Harrisburg, in fact, that was what it was built for. (Actually, the 3/54 MP229 shows 2 EP20 were maintained on the Fort Wayne Division, the rest, 46 EP20 A's, 14 EP20 B's and all 74 EP22 A's were all shown under the Middle Division.) Since enginehouses at Division points could and did maintain locomotives for either division terminating there, the E's at Harrisburg could reasonably have appeared as either Middle or Philadelphia MP229 -assigned units. But since the E's did not typically run east of Harrisburg, the Middle Division was the more logical choice. Probably a bunch of other reasons too - staffing, budgets, etc. The E's powered the passenger trains all the way to the western ends of the system, so even though they only show up on the Middle Division in the MP229, they were used across the system. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 1:07 PM Subject: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 > No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. > > I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the > Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm > sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March > 1954 MP229. > > Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger > trains into Harrisburg from points east. > > Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine > house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units > allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh > Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them > all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from > Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. > > By 1954 there were no BP class units in service. Of the passenger units > rostered, the breakdown is as follows: > > 74 EMD E8A units (Class EP22)...45% > > 49 EMD E7A units (Class EP20)...30%...39% collectively > 14 EMD E7B units (Class EP20)...9% (caution: commonly ran with E8's) > > 10 Alco PA1 units (Class AP20)...9% collectively > 5 Alco PB1 units (Class AP20) > > 8 EMD FP7A units (Class EFP15) ...7% collectively > 4 EMD FP7B units (Class EFP15) > > The above percentages do NOT take into account any steam still in > passenger service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh...only diesel. > > I figure the two Alco lashups that I have on hand should suffice; add > to that an FP lashup if they ever come out. Then the rest should be a > reasonable balance between E7's and E8's. Throw in a little steam for > good measure. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000 et al. 12th revision Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:34:17 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: I have a 1945 CT1000C with the bound black covers. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: robert netzlof To: Jamie Bothwell Cc: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000 et al. 12th revision > --- Jamie Bothwell wrote: > > > > > So, would those who have 1945 CT1000's take look and see. > > Apparently > > > there are two flavors, although I can't imagine why. > > > Bob, > > I have a CT1000E from 1945, and it has standard book-like covers > > in > > black. I had another just like it I gave away. More to the point > > of > > your question, I once inquired about a CT1000 from Charlie Horan > > and > > the one he showed me was much like you describe. I think it had > > black > > covers,... > > I was making a little joke when I said "maybe very very dark green?" > > > ...but I know it had the screw posts. My question about these > > things is was there a CT1000C and a CT1000W? > > Jerry Britton has assured me that he has seen both 1945 CT1000C and > W, > > > I've never seen a > > seperate one besides the "E's". > > I have a 1923 CT1000C myself. The next earlier one, 1918, is > problematic. I have a CT1000A, someone on PRR-Talk said he has a > CT1000D. That suggests there were B and C books. But remember, 1918, > PRR was in thr hands of the dread USRA who undoubtedly knew that they > knew better how things should be done. > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:00:20 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) In a message dated 12/11/03 3:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500 > > No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. > > I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the > Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm > sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March > 1954 MP229. > > Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger > trains into Harrisburg from points east. > > Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine > house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units > allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh > Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them > all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from > Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. > Jerry, There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following with a grain of salt. But, extrapolating from some studies on the Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power was not really assigned to divisions. Anybody know when the "system pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance. Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived. All of these units would have either circulated across the system according to some master plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up. Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 units, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know whether this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they appear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictures. More data and the pix in the Spring Keystone, of course; don't forget to send in your renewal. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:53:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 03:47 PM, John Frantz wrote: > Bill Lewis, a friend of mine, has pictures his dad took of a pair > sitting at York Station with one the 'Limited' trains. in 1948 or 49. The only "Limited" going through York at the time was the "Liberty Limited". There were numerous un-named trains, the Buffalo/Washington Day Express, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:00:20 EST Subject: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) In a message dated 12/11/03 3:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 > From: "Jerry Britton" > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500 > > No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. > > I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the > Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm > sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March > 1954 MP229. > > Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger > trains into Harrisburg from points east. > > Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine > house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units > allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh > Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them > all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from > Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. > Jerry, There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following with a grain of salt. But, extrapolating from some studies on the Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power was not really assigned to divisions. Anybody know when the "system pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance. Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived. All of these units would have either circulated across the system according to some master plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up. Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 units, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know whether this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they appear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictures. More data and the pix in the Spring Keystone, of course; don't forget to send in your renewal. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_1e5.15609a53.2d0b15e4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/11/03 3:54:25 PM Eastern Standar= d Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Diesel Passenger Power= in 1954
From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500

No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings.

I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the
Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm
sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March
1954 MP229.

Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger
trains into Harrisburg from points east.

Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine
house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units
allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh
Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them
  all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from
Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.


Jerry,

There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following with a= grain of salt.  But, extrapolating from some studies on the Cincinnati= Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power was not really=20= assigned to divisions.  Anybody know when the "system pool" went into e= ffect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have "assigned" the pool to the= Harrisburg engine house for maintenance.  Presumably the F-7's (and la= ter GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a similar pool for freight; by the Sixti= es I believe the Enola pool was GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived.&nb= sp; All of these units would have either circulated across the system accord= ing to some master plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up.
Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were assi= gned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954.  This fleet was about 20 uni= ts, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division.  Don't know whether= this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they a= ppear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictur= es.  More data and the pix in the Spring Keystone, of course; don't for= get to send in your renewal.



    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_1e5.15609a53.2d0b15e4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:10:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 08:00 AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following=20= > with a grain of salt.=A0 But, extrapolating from some studies on the=20= > Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power=20= > was not really assigned to divisions.=A0 Anybody know when the "system=20= > pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have=20 > "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance.=A0=20= > Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a=20 > similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was=20= > GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived.=A0 All of these units would=20= > have either circulated across the system according to some master=20 > plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up. Rick: Jack Consoli chimed in on this within the past 24 hours. Maybe=20 you missed the post. He did indicate that the E's were worked out of=20 Harrisburg and listed under the Middle Division. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:27:36 -0500 All: As I recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to specific Road Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc. For the mostpart, the units were in the same region or division as the Road Foreman but not necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as an example roamed systemwide. There was another document which I don't recall having a MP number assigned but which showed on a unit by unit basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit was assiged to. This meant that once a month each assigned unit had to be operated to its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which took the place of the old boilerwash in the steam days. In some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for instance when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit would receive an MI at Chicago while it was being repaired, and released for service again. The purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to track the various units to ensure that each unit within his purview received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, and keep the federal men off the railroad's collective back. I think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at my fingertips at the moment. During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus Diesel Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s and F3s and C Liners etc. Bill Volkmer -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:00 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@egroups.com Subject: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) In a message dated 12/11/03 3:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: Subject: Diesel Passenger Power in 1954 From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30 -0500 No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some findings. I was looking into ratios of passenger power in 1954, for the Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. I'm sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the March 1954 MP229. Going by the general assumption that electrics would bring passenger trains into Harrisburg from points east. Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a significant engine house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO passenger units allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the Pittsburgh Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they listed them all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh. Jerry, There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following with a grain of salt. But, extrapolating from some studies on the Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power was not really assigned to divisions. Anybody know when the "system pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance. Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived. All of these units would have either circulated across the system according to some master plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up. Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 units, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know whether this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they appear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictures. More data and the pix in the Spring Keystone, of course; don't forget to send in your renewal. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3C089.CD8872F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
All:
 
As I=20 recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to = specific Road=20 Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc.  For the = mostpart,=20 the units were in the same region or division as the Road Foreman but = not=20 necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as an example roamed=20 systemwide.  There was another document which I don't recall having = a MP=20 number assigned but which showed on a unit by unit basis which = ENGINEHOUSE the=20 unit was assiged to.  This meant that once a month each assigned = unit had=20 to be operated to its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which = took =20 the place of the old boilerwash in the steam days.
 
In=20 some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for = instance=20 when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit would receive an = MI at=20 Chicago while it was being repaired, and released for service = again.  The=20 purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to track the various units = to ensure=20 that each unit within his purview received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, = and keep=20 the federal men off the railroad's collective back.
 
I=20 think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of the = Pennsy=20 Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at = my=20 fingertips at the moment.
 
During=20 my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus Diesel Shop = but=20 they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s and F3s and C Liners = etc.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com]
Sent: = Friday,=20 December 12, 2003 8:00 AM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com;=20 PRR@yahoogroups.com; PennsyWest@egroups.com
Subject: [PRR]=20 Assignment peccadillos (MP229)

In a=20 message dated 12/11/03 3:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 writes:


Subject: Diesel Passenger Power in 1954
From: "Jerry = Britton"=20 <jerry@pennsyrr.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:30=20 -0500

No question today -- surprise!!! Just sharing some=20 findings.

I was looking into ratios of passenger power in = 1954, for=20 the
Philadelphia, Middle, and Pittsburgh divisions that I model. = I'm=20
sharing this info in case it helps anyone else. Source is the = March=20
1954 MP229.

Going by the general assumption that = electrics would=20 bring passenger
trains into Harrisburg from points=20 east.

Interesting to note that, even though the PRR had a = significant=20 engine
house at Harrisburg for passenger power, there are ZERO = passenger=20 units
allocated to the Philadelphia Division!!! Same for the = Pittsburgh=20
Division...ZERO passenger locos in 1954. It looks like they = listed them=20
  all under the Middle Division since they pretty much ran = from=20
Harrisburg to = Pittsburgh.


Jerry,

There's=20 tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following with a = grain of=20 salt.  But, extrapolating from some studies on the Cincinnati = Division=20 done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power was not really = assigned to=20 divisions.  Anybody know when the "system pool" went into effect = for EMD=20 passenger units? -- that would have "assigned" the pool to the = Harrisburg=20 engine house for maintenance.  Presumably the F-7's (and later = GP-9's)=20 were pooled at Enola in a similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I = believe=20 the Enola pool was GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived.  All = of=20 these units would have either circulated across the system according = to some=20 master plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were = up.

Just to=20 insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were = assigned to=20 Cincinnati, at least through 1954.  This fleet was about 20 = units, versus=20 the 8 you report on the Middle Division.  Don't know whether this = was=20 protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they = appear (on=20 passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our = pictures. =20 More data and the pix in the Spring Keystone, of course; don't forget = to send=20 in your renewal.



         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;      =20 Rick Tipton - Louisville=20 = KY
           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    =20 Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div.=20 = 1966-1968)
          = ;            =       =20 And Remembering PRR Lines West =
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C3C089.CD8872F0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:54:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Though not yet on BLI's web site, the second run of E7's has been announced. Several PRR sets are included, including two in DGLE and two in Tuscan! Sorry, no ETA. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:51:58 -0500 From: CENTGA@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 12/12/2003 8:54:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > Though not yet on BLI's web site, the second run of E7's has been > announced. Several PRR sets are included, including two in > DGLE and two > in Tuscan Jerry, do these units have the PRR modifications, lift rings, extra vents, and antenna? Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:00:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) In a message dated 12/12/03 8:14:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 08:00 AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > > There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following > > with a grain of salt. But, extrapolating from some studies on the > > Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power > > was not really assigned to divisions. Anybody know when the "system > > pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have > > "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance. > > Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a > > similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was > > GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived. All of these units would > > have either circulated across the system according to some master > > plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up. > > Rick: Jack Consoli chimed in on this within the past 24 hours. Maybe > you missed the post. He did indicate that the E's were worked out of > Harrisburg and listed under the Middle Division. > Jerry, Thanks -- I just read Jack's posting, which answers the question nicely. I'm usually a day late because I'm on dialup and work via digest and overnight flash session. Also, see Bill Volkmer's message, just received here. Good info on MP229 versus enginehouse assignments. You do realize that if we start paying attention to engine numbers, we're going to go blind redecaling numbers on all our units, right? Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_15c.29031726.2d0b31f9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/12/03 8:14:25 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


On Friday, December 12, 2003, a= t 08:00  AM, RickTipton@aol.com wrote:

> There's tons I don't know about MP229's, so please take the following <= BR> > with a grain of salt.  But, extrapolating from some studies on the=
> Cincinnati Division done for us, it looked like by 1954 the road power=20=
> was not really assigned to divisions.  Anybody know when the "syst= em
> pool" went into effect for EMD passenger units? -- that would have
> "assigned" the pool to the Harrisburg engine house for maintenance.&nbs= p;
> Presumably the F-7's (and later GP-9's) were pooled at Enola in a
> similar pool for freight; by the Sixties I believe the Enola pool was <= BR> > GP30's and 35's until the SD40's arrived.  All of these units woul= d
> have either circulated across the system according to some master
> plan, or been "called home" when their 30 days were up.

Rick: Jack Consoli chimed in on this within the past 24 hours. Maybe
you missed the post. He did indicate that the E's were worked out of
Harrisburg and listed under the Middle Division.


Jerry,

Thanks -- I just read Jack's posting, which answers the question nicely.&nbs= p; I'm usually a day late because I'm on dialup and work via digest and over= night flash session.

Also, see Bill Volkmer's message, just received here.  Good info on MP2= 29 versus enginehouse assignments.

You do realize that if we start paying attention to engine numbers, we're go= ing to go blind redecaling numbers on all our units, right?

    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_15c.29031726.2d0b31f9_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:00:06 EST Subject: [PRR] Comparing assignments, 1954 and 1960 In a message dated 12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > Subj:RE: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) > Date:12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time > From:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com > To:RickTipton@aol.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Sent from the Internet > > > > All: > > As I recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to > specific Road Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc. For the > mostpart, the units were in the same region or division as the Road Foreman but > not necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as an example roamed > systemwide. There was another document which I don't recall having a MP number > assigned but which showed on a unit by unit basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit > was assiged to. This meant that once a month each assigned unit had to be > operated to its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which took the place of > the old boilerwash in the steam days. > > In some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for > instance when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit would receive an > MI at Chicago while it was being repaired, and released for service again. > The purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to track the various units to > ensure that each unit within his purview received monthly attention > SOMEWHERE, and keep the federal men off the railroad's collective back. > > I think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of the > Pennsy Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at my > fingertips at the moment. > > During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus Diesel > Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s and F3s and C > Liners etc. > > Bill Volkmer > Thanks, Bill, for explaining the meaning of MP229 versus enginehouse assignments. And (duh) yes, the September 1, 1960 Regional Monthly Maintenance Points list starts on page 124 of PDY5. As is logical, those assignments show the progression toward assigning only local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments: * 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. But a different SW-1 than in 1954 * 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power). * 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati. 19 were assigned there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units. * 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit. There were three of these H-20-44 endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952. BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with those of a single maintenance point. But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in 1960 part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid. By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Diesel Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue). Centralizing maintenance of the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't hard to get them back. One other observation -- with all the FF16, FF20, and FS24m assigned to Col umbus, 1960 would have been a wonderful year to be a railfan there. Unfortunately, I missed that scene by 6 years -- which made all the difference in the world. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_14b.280bb495.2d0b31f6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:


Subj:RE: [PRR] Assignment pe= ccadillos (MP229)
Date:12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:bvolkmer@herzogcompanie= s.com
To:RickTipton@aol.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent from the Internet



All:

As I recall, the MP229 was a= document that assigned various diesels to specific Road Foremen of Engines=20= as a means of tracking mileage etc.  For the mostpart, the units were i= n the same region or division as the Road Foreman but not necessarily, since= obviously the passenger units as an example roamed systemwide.  There=20= was another document which I don't recall having a MP number assigned but wh= ich showed on a unit by unit basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit was assiged to= .  This meant that once a month each assigned unit had to be operated t= o its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which took  the place of=20= the old boilerwash in the steam days.

In some cases, a unit was la= id up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for instance when it was due in Enol= a for MI. In this case, the unit would receive an MI at Chicago while it was= being repaired, and released for service again.  The purpose of the MP= 229 was to assign a person to track the various units to ensure that each un= it within his purview received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, and keep the fed= eral men off the railroad's collective back.

I think we reproduced that m= otive power assignment sheets in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years series, prob= ably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at my fingertips at the moment.

During my watch (1958-68) th= e EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus Diesel Shop but they ran all over th= e system mixed in with the F-7s and F3s and C Liners etc.

Bill Volkmer


Thanks, Bill, for explaining the meaning of MP229 versus enginehouse assignm= ents.  And (duh) yes, the September 1, 1960 Regional Monthly Maintenanc= e Points list starts on page 124 of PDY5.

As is logical, those assignments show the progression toward assigning only=20= local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments:

* 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. = But a different SW-1 than in 1954
* 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power= (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power).
* 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati.  19 were assigne= d there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units.
* 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit.  There were three of these H-20-44=20= endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952.

BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with t= hose of a single maintenance point.  But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the=20= only maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in=20= 1960 part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid.

By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Diese= l Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue).  Centralizing maintenan= ce of the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Bucke= ye Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it was= n't hard to get them back.

One other observation -- with all the FF16, FF20, and FS24m assigned to Colu= mbus, 1960 would have been a wonderful year to be a railfan there.  Unf= ortunately, I missed that scene by 6 years -- which made all the difference=20= in the world.


    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_14b.280bb495.2d0b31f6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: [PRR] RE: Comparing assignments, 1954 and 1960 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:29:53 -0500 Right you are. During the period from about 1958 to 1964, you could pretty well go by the Motive Power Assignment sheets for directions on where to get the pictures of your favorite unit. However, beginning in 1964 with the delivery of the second generation road units en-masse (SD-35s, 40s, C630s, U-25cs etc.), the picture became very diluted. All of the MUable motive power was assigned to Columbus, Conway and Enola. This meant that most of the units were still to be found at the outlying enginehouses but once a month we bagged them up and shipped them to one of the big three enginehouses for maintenance. Gradually as all the non-mu locos were retired, the smaller enginehouses dried up and blew away. Then in 1968 the PC merger made what was left evaporate completely. WDV -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:00 AM To: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Comparing assignments, 1954 and 1960 In a message dated 12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: Subj:RE: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) Date:12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time From:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com To:RickTipton@aol.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com Sent from the Internet All: As I recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to specific Road Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc. For the mostpart, the units were in the same region or division as the Road Foreman but not necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as an example roamed systemwide. There was another document which I don't recall having a MP number assigned but which showed on a unit by unit basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit was assiged to. This meant that once a month each assigned unit had to be operated to its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which took the place of the old boilerwash in the steam days. In some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for instance when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit would receive an MI at Chicago while it was being repaired, and released for service again. The purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to track the various units to ensure that each unit within his purview received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, and keep the federal men off the railroad's collective back. I think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at my fingertips at the moment. During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus Diesel Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s and F3s and C Liners etc. Bill Volkmer Thanks, Bill, for explaining the meaning of MP229 versus enginehouse assignments. And (duh) yes, the September 1, 1960 Regional Monthly Maintenance Points list starts on page 124 of PDY5. As is logical, those assignments show the progression toward assigning only local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments: * 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. But a different SW-1 than in 1954 * 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power). * 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati. 19 were assigned there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units. * 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit. There were three of these H-20-44 endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952. BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with those of a single maintenance point. But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in 1960 part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid. By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Diesel Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue). Centralizing maintenance of the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't hard to get them back. One other observation -- with all the FF16, FF20, and FS24m assigned to Columbus, 1960 would have been a wonderful year to be a railfan there. Unfortunately, I missed that scene by 6 years -- which made all the difference in the world. Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3C09A.E2E30050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Message
Right=20 you are.  During the period from about 1958 to 1964, you could = pretty well=20 go by the Motive Power Assignment sheets for directions on where to get = the=20 pictures of your favorite unit.  However, beginning in 1964 with = the=20 delivery of the second generation road units en-masse (SD-35s, 40s, = C630s,=20 U-25cs etc.), the picture became very diluted.  All of the MUable = motive=20 power was assigned to Columbus, Conway and Enola.  This meant that = most of=20 the units were still to be found at the outlying enginehouses but once a = month=20 we bagged them up and shipped them to one of the big three enginehouses = for=20 maintenance.  Gradually as all the non-mu locos were retired, the = smaller=20 enginehouses dried up and blew away.  Then in 1968 the PC merger = made what=20 was left evaporate completely.
 
WDV
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com]
Sent: = Friday,=20 December 12, 2003 10:00 AM
To: bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com; = PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: Comparing assignments, 1954 and=20 1960

In a message dated 12/12/03 8:40:01 AM = Eastern=20 Standard Time, bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:


Subj:RE: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229)=20
Date:12/12/03 8:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
From:bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com=
To:RickTipton@aol.com, PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Sent = from the=20 Internet



All:

As I recall, the MP229 was a document that = assigned=20 various diesels to specific Road Foremen of Engines as a means of = tracking=20 mileage etc.  For the mostpart, the units were in the same = region or=20 division as the Road Foreman but not necessarily, since obviously = the=20 passenger units as an example roamed systemwide.  There was = another=20 document which I don't recall having a MP number assigned but which = showed=20 on a unit by unit basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit was assiged = to. =20 This meant that once a month each assigned unit had to be operated = to its=20 home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which took  the place = of the=20 old boilerwash in the steam days.

In some cases, a unit was laid up for minor = wreck damage=20 in Chicago for instance when it was due in Enola for MI. In this = case, the=20 unit would receive an MI at Chicago while it was being repaired, and = released for service again.  The purpose of the MP229 was to = assign a=20 person to track the various units to ensure that each unit within = his=20 purview received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, and keep the federal = men off=20 the railroad's collective back.

I think we reproduced that motive power = assignment sheets=20 in one of the Pennsy Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I = don't=20 have the books at my fingertips at the moment.

During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all = assigned=20 to Columbus Diesel Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in = with the=20 F-7s and F3s and C Liners etc.

Bill Volkmer


Thanks, Bill, for explaining the meaning of = MP229=20 versus enginehouse assignments.  And (duh) yes, the September 1, = 1960=20 Regional Monthly Maintenance Points list starts on page 124 of = PDY5.

As=20 is logical, those assignments show the progression toward assigning = only local=20 units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments:

* 1 = ES6 -=20 probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue.  But = a=20 different SW-1 than in 1954
* 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR=20 considered GP-7's to be switcher power (as opposed to the GP-9's, road = power).
* 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in = Cincinnati.  19=20 were assigned there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original = units.
* 1=20 FS20 - used as a transfer unit.  There were three of these = H-20-44=20 endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952.

BTW, = it would=20 normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with those of = a single=20 maintenance point.  But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only = maintenance=20 point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in 1960 part = of the=20 Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid.

By 1960, = all the=20 F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Diesel Shop (I'm = assuming this is St. Clair Avenue).  Centralizing maintenance of = the road=20 fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye Region = (and=20 beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't hard = to get=20 them back.

One other observation -- with all the FF16, FF20, = and FS24m=20 assigned to Columbus, 1960 would have been a wonderful year to be a = railfan=20 there.  Unfortunately, I missed that scene by 6 years -- which = made all=20 the difference in the world.


         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;      =20 Rick Tipton - Louisville=20 = KY
           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    =20 Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div.=20 = 1966-1968)
          = ;            =       =20 And Remembering PRR Lines West =
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C3C09A.E2E30050-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:11:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 09:51 AM, CENTGA@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/12/2003 8:54:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > >> Though not yet on BLI's web site, the second run of E7's has been >> announced. Several PRR sets are included, including two in >> DGLE and two >> in Tuscan > > Jerry, do these units have the PRR modifications, lift rings, extra > vents, and antenna? Details are NOT announced yet. I doubt they will include any PRR mods, especially trainphone. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Frank Brua" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:30:54 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Jerry, I thought BLI omitted Pennsy on the first round of names becuase the carbody they were going to use was incorrect for the Pennsy units. Are they going to modify the carbody for the next offerings?? Frank Brua ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:54 AM Subject: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! > Though not yet on BLI's web site, the second run of E7's has been > announced. Several PRR sets are included, including two in DGLE and two > in Tuscan! > > Sorry, no ETA. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:40:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI PRR E7's Announced! From: Jerry Britton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Friday, December 12, 2003, at 12:30 PM, Frank Brua wrote: > I thought BLI omitted Pennsy on the first round of names becuase the > carbody > they were going to use was incorrect for the Pennsy units. Are they > going > to modify the > carbody for the next offerings?? I only have part numbers, road names, and road numbers. No other particulars. Perhaps the second run has common details? I don't know yet. The second run includes: SP, UP, FEC, IC, PRR, Rock Island, B&M, CB&Q, Chicago & Eastern Illinois, GN, Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, L&N, Pere Marquette, Spokane, Portland & Seattle, and Wabash. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:16:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT -- Verizon Subscribers From: Listmaster Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: This message is for the benefit of our list subscribers who may receive e-mail using accounts from Verizon, in the hope that you happen to check the list archives via the web interface... Verizon apparently instituted a new anti-SPAM filter that is blocking most legitimate listserv traffic as well as SPAM. Can you say "Ooops!"? I have sent an e-mail describing the problem to the generic address of "postmaster@verizon.com". Who knows if/when they will get to it. In the mean time, please contact your local Verizon office and alert them to the problem. Thank you. ---------------------------------------- Listmaster listmaster@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:45 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI E7's From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <2CB34BEE-2CDD-11D8-B1E8-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: BLI is starting to update their web site. Single E7's will be available in February. Stay tuned on the AB sets; probably same time frame. It was asked about the car body and details...there are two versions of the number board this time around. Was that the major issue? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:07:46 -0500 Subject: [PRR] More BLI From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: More GG1's -- including Amtrak, Conrail, and another PRR unit -- are being announced. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:19:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] BLI K7a Stock Car MultiPacks w/o Sound From: Jerry Britton Message-Id: <7F19DD19-2CE0-11D8-B1E8-000393835C88@pennsyrr.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Must be BLI day...they've taken feedback and are making multi-packs of the new K7a stock cars w/o sound!!! Due next spring. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:42:04 EST Subject: [PRR] MS-60 I have a copy of a consist book dated 10/25/1964 which states on The front cover that "ALL MS-60 EXPRESS AND PAPER CARS ARE TO BE R-50 OR X-29 TYPE UNLESS OTHERWISE INDICATED.' I hope this clarifies what was used for an MS-60 Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1071265323 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have a copy of a consist book dated 10/25/1964 which states on The fr= ont=20 cover that "ALL MS-60 EXPRESS AND PAPER CARS ARE TO BE R-50 OR X-29 TYPE UNL= ESS=20 OTHERWISE INDICATED.'
I hope this clarifies what was used for an MS-60
 
Ray Burghart SPF
-------------------------------1071265323-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:53:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Information on trains not shown in some consist books I have a copy of a consist book dated 10/25/1964 which does include information on 500 & 600 series trains, 570-576 and 580 &581Plus 600 Series Harrisburg locals. Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1071266002 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have a copy of a consist book dated 10/25/1964 which does include=20 information on 500 & 600 series trains, 570-576 and 580 &581Plus=20  600 Series Harrisburg locals.
 
Ray Burghart SPF
-------------------------------1071266002-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:03:41 EST Subject: [PRR] MP229 PASSENGER POWER Please not that although the PRR had a number of FP7 A units ii had no FP7 B units the dual service B units were regular F7s. No FP7 B units were ever produced. For more information see DIESEL ERA PRR book Vol. 6 page384. Ray Burghart SPF -------------------------------1071266621 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Please not that although the PRR had a number of FP7 A units ii had no=20= FP7=20 B units the dual service B units were regular F7s. No FP7 B units were ever=20 produced. For more information see DIESEL ERA PRR book Vol. 6 page384.
 
Ray Burghart SPF
-------------------------------1071266621-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:36:23 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Bowser B6sb From: Bruce Smith Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Afternoon, Have any of you seen the new Bowser B6sb kit in person yet? I saw one at a hobby shop that's run by a PRRT&HS member, and boy, he wasn't happy!! It appears Bowser didn't bother to do a new tender casting, so the kit has the same old Bowser aka Penn Line hamburger sized rivet "slope-back" tender. I find this sad because what looks to be a really nice loco model with very nice tooling is pretty much ruined. As it stands now, it is glaringly obvious that the tender and body are very different toolings with very different sized rivets (One modern and prototypical and one 1950's vintage). I guess I should have realized it from the photos, but I was hoping that Bowser would do a new tender. I was thinking of proposing it as a PRRPRO project, but now I'm not going to buy the kit...(I may pick up a mechanism to do a fireless cooker, but that's another story...) I guess that there is still plenty of room for a high quality HO scale B6...of course, I want my H9, L1 and I1 a la BLI too!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-45-619586705 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Afternoon, Have any of you seen the new Bowser B6sb kit in person yet? I saw one at a hobby shop that's run by a PRRT&HS member, and boy, he wasn't happy!! It appears Bowser didn't bother to do a new tender casting, so the kit has the same old Bowser aka Penn Line hamburger sized rivet "slope-back" tender. I find this sad because what looks to be a really nice loco model with very nice tooling is pretty much ruined. As it stands now, it is glaringly obvious that the tender and body are very different toolings with very different sized rivets (One modern and prototypical and one 1950's vintage). I guess I should have realized it from the photos, but I was hoping that Bowser would do a new tender. I was thinking of proposing it as a PRRPRO project, but now I'm not going to buy the kit...(I may pick up a mechanism to do a fireless cooker, but that's another story...) I guess that there is still plenty of room for a high quality HO scale B6...of course, I want my H9, L1 and I1 a la BLI too!! Happy Rails Bruce HelveticaBruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 --Apple-Mail-45-619586705-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] BLI E7's Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:52:42 +0000 From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Bowser B6sb Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:01:04 -0500 Bruce and list, Penn Line never had a slope backed tender. But, John A. English did on = its A5s 0-4-0! I recall buying one of these in a non-motorized plastic = version around 1955 or so. So, it goes waaaaaaay back with the English = family. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 5:36 PM Subject: [PRR] Bowser B6sb Afternoon, Have any of you seen the new Bowser B6sb kit in person yet? I saw one = at a hobby shop that's run by a PRRT&HS member, and boy, he wasn't = happy!! It appears Bowser didn't bother to do a new tender casting, so = the kit has the same old Bowser aka Penn Line hamburger sized rivet = "slope-back" tender. I find this sad because what looks to be a really = nice loco model with very nice tooling is pretty much ruined. As it = stands now, it is glaringly obvious that the tender and body are very = different toolings with very different sized rivets (One modern and = prototypical and one 1950's vintage). I guess I should have realized it = from the photos, but I was hoping that Bowser would do a new tender. I = was thinking of proposing it as a PRRPRO project, but now I'm not going = to buy the kit...(I may pick up a mechanism to do a fireless cooker, but = that's another story...) I guess that there is still plenty of room for a high quality HO scale = B6...of course, I want my H9, L1 and I1 a la BLI too!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.=20 Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin = Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| = |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C3C0D9.E8BAD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
 

Bruce and list,
 
Penn Line never had a slope backed tender. But, = John=20 A. English did on its A5s 0-4-0! I recall buying one of these = in a=20 non-motorized plastic version around 1955 or so. So, it goes waaaaaaay = back with=20 the English family.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 = 5:36=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Bowser = B6sb

Afternoon,

Have any of you seen the new Bowser = B6sb kit=20 in person yet? I saw one at a hobby shop that's run by a PRRT&HS = member,=20 and boy, he wasn't happy!! It appears Bowser didn't bother to do a new = tender=20 casting, so the kit has the same old Bowser aka Penn Line hamburger = sized=20 rivet "slope-back" tender. I find this sad because what looks to be a = really=20 nice loco model with very nice tooling is pretty much ruined. As it = stands=20 now, it is glaringly obvious that the tender and body are very = different=20 toolings with very different sized rivets (One modern and prototypical = and one=20 1950's vintage). I guess I should have realized it from the photos, = but I was=20 hoping that Bowser would do a new tender. I was thinking of proposing = it as a=20 PRRPRO project, but now I'm not going to buy the kit...(I may pick up = a=20 mechanism to do a fireless cooker, but that's another = story...)

I guess=20 that there is still plenty of room for a high quality HO scale B6...of = course,=20 I want my H9, L1 and I1 a la BLI too!!

Happy = Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith = V.M.D.,=20 Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850=20 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof = that God=20 loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin=20 Franklin
__
/ = \
__<+--+>________________\__/___=20 ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O \_______ -| | = __ __ __=20 __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ |=20 = ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||

|/_________________________= ____\|_|____________________________________|
|=20 O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ------=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C3C0D9.E8BAD360-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:41:40 -0500 From: bearcreekwest@netscape.net Subject: RE: [PRR] BLI E7's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: As delivered had small numberboards with the standard vent configuration down the sides and on the top. Later configuration had large 45 deg numberboards, the vents on the top (roof) of the carbody replaced with screen, additional screened vent added to the rear of the carbody on the side, front pair of side window reduced to one window with three louvered vents placed forward of remaining window. Also appears the horizontal vent behind the cab entry door was slatted in the original configuration but screened on later units. This can be seen in the Wither's book on E units. The original roof vents were slatted and can be seen protruding above the roof line whereas the screened replacements were flush with the roof line. A pair of pictures shows this on page 491 of Wither's Don Luke Tucson, AZ Jerry Britton wrote: >BLI is starting to update their web site. > >Single E7's will be available in February. Stay tuned on the AB sets; >probably same time frame. > >It was asked about the car body and details...there are two versions of >the number board this time around. Was that the major issue? >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr6100@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:38:58 EST Subject: [PRR] m 1 Has anyone heard or have they gotten the Pennsy M-1's yet, The BLI website says early 2004, but they have moved it several times already. -------------------------------1071275938 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Has anyone heard or=20= have they gotten the Pennsy M-1's yet, The BLI website says early 2004, but=20= they have moved it several times already. -------------------------------1071275938-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:59:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Tilting Targets - redux From: Michael E Allen Reference all of the attempts to describe a "Tilting Target" a few weeks ago... There is a picture posted on the Michigan Shortline Message Board ( http://members.boardhost.com/misl/ ) of a similar signal (green team) at Reese, Michigan Mike Allen ----__JNP_000_2a66.6b34.4aed Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Reference all of the attempts to describe a "Tilting Target" a few = weeks=20 ago...
 
There is a picture posted on the  Michigan=20 Shortline Message Board ( http://members.boardhost.com/= misl/ )=20 of a similar signal (green team) at Reese, Michigan <http://members.= boardhost.com/misl/msg/32950.html>
 
Mike Allen
----__JNP_000_2a66.6b34.4aed-- ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:32:42 -0500 From: bearcreekwest@netscape.net Subject: RE: [PRR] m 1 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Early in 2003 when BLI's offerings consisted of the NYC Hudson & PRR M1, , the N&W Class A, PRR GG1, EMD E7, PRR T1, & USRA Heavy Mikado 2-8-2 weren't even mentioned in the offerings - yet the scheduled delivery date of June 2003 for the M1, then November 2003, then December 2003 have been slipped yet again to January 2004 while the GG1, E7, and N&W class A are in people's hands. For those people who have been pleased by the release of the GG1, E7, Hudson, etc., there are those who wonder if the M1 will ever arrive. I had planned on the M1 as a birthday present for my son in July - didn't happen then as a Christmas present - still won't happen. With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings. Don Luke Tucson, AZ Prr6100@aol.com wrote: >Has anyone heard or have they gotten the Pennsy M-1's yet, The BLI website >says early 2004, but they have moved it several times already. > __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Zoeller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:48:56 -0600 Bruce, I guess I haven't got out my rivet counter, but why oh why is = their such agony (not just by you) over a B6 when nice-running old Red = Ball and other brass ones are available for from $100 to $150 (I paid = $115 for mine a couple years ago). May not be up to the standards of a = Key, but I will stack mine up against anything in cast metal or = Bachmann. Mine is particularly smooth running,but I admit I have to = still see if the open-frame motor will require replacement for DCC. And = by the way, those new standard brass locos have great detail but it all = falls off if you move around or back and forth from a club or modular = layout. And another BTW, though I have paid $30 for a new can motor for brass, I = now have some $4 ones I am giving a try---interesting to see how they = work out. Bob Zoeller ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bruce Smith=20 I guess that there is still plenty of room for a high quality HO scale = B6... ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3C0F1.5C9A1900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bruce, I guess I haven't got out my = rivet counter,=20 but why oh why is their such agony (not just by you) over a B6 when = nice-running old Red Ball and other brass ones are available for from = $100 to=20 $150 (I paid $115 for mine a couple years ago).  May not be up to = the=20 standards of  a Key, but I will stack mine up against anything in = cast=20 metal or Bachmann.  Mine is particularly smooth running,but I admit = I have=20 to still see if the open-frame motor will require replacement for DCC. = And by=20 the way, those new standard brass locos have great detail but it all = falls off=20 if you move around or back and forth from a club or modular = layout.
 
And another BTW, though I have paid $30 = for a new=20 can motor for brass, I now have some $4 ones I am giving a = try---interesting to=20 see how  they work out.
 
Bob Zoeller
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bruce=20 Smith
I guess that there is still plenty of room for a = high=20 quality HO scale B6... ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3C0F1.5C9A1900-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:58:07 -0600 From: Randy Subject: [PRR] Website Update From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:06:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Bob, I am "satisfied" with the Sunset B6sb. I paid $125.00 when it first come out and then $165.00 last year for a second one. The B6sb wasn't super loaded with lots of detail and the Sunset fits the bill. I am on the look out though for a Key B6sb just to upgrade. I do that once in awhile. What did Bowser use for the A5s Tender of 10 years ago? New Casting or the old English Yardbird Tender?...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work! PRR K4s Loco Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/ PRR G5s, T1, J1 J1a, M1, M1a, N1s, etc. etc.: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, P&LE Pics, PRR Memorabilia and Misc. Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:37:38 EST Subject: [PRR] E Unit Number Boards With the announcement of the BLI E-7 units, is there a source of the large number boards in HO or will it be a scratchbuilding exercise if the units come without them? Also, were these add-on number boards strickly a Pennsy item or did other roads use them. I have a vague memory of seeing this or something like it on the SP or one of its subsidiaries. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1071286658 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
  With the announcement of the BLI E-7 units,  is there a sou= rce of the large number boards in HO or will it be a scratchbuilding exercis= e if the units come without them?
 
  Also, were these add-on number boards strickly a Pennsy item or=20= did other roads use them.  I have a vague memory of seeing this or some= thing like it on the SP or one of its subsidiaries.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1071286658-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:18:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MTH? From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] E Unit Number Boards Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:56:49 -0500 Evan Leisey asked: "With the announcement of the BLI E-7 units, is there a source of the = large number boards in HO or will it be a scratchbuilding exercise if = the units come without them?" Cal-Scale #443: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/190-443 =20 "Also, were these add-on number boards strickly [sic] a Pennsy item or = did other roads use them. I have a vague memory of seeing this or = something like it on the SP or one of its subsidiaries." Not SP - their E7s had F7-style number boards. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp6003n.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sp/sp6004.jpg Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C3C10B.9B7D7F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Evan Leisey asked:
"With the announcement of the BLI E-7 = units, =20 is there a source of the large number boards in HO or will it be a=20 scratchbuilding exercise if the units come without them?"
 
Cal-Scale #443:
http://www.walt= hers.com/exec/productinfo/190-443 =20
 
 
"Also, were these add-on number boards = strickly=20 [sic] a Pennsy item or did other roads use them.  I have a vague = memory of=20 seeing this or something like it on the SP or one of its=20 subsidiaries."
 
Not SP - their E7s had F7-style = number=20 boards.
http://www.rr-falle= nflags.org/sp/sp6003n.jpg
http://www.rr-fallen= flags.org/sp/sp6004.jpg
 
 
Ben Hom
 
------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C3C10B.9B7D7F80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "STEPHEN HOXIE" Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI E7's Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:43:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don Luke wrote-- ----- Original Message ----- > As delivered had small numberboards with the standard vent > configuration down the sides and on the top. > Later configuration had large 45 deg numberboards, > the vents on the top (roof) of the carbody replaced with > screen, additional screened vent added to the rear of the > carbody on the side, front pair of side window reduced to > one window with three louvered vents placed forward of > remaining window. Also appears the horizontal vent > behind the cab entry door was slatted in the original > configuration but screened on later units. > Hold on: don't everybody jump on those CalScale large number boards. All that Don says is true, but that would be for 1955 or so and later. Adding the large number boards would be the last mod until MU fittings on the nose were added. There was another configuration that retained the original small numberboards but had all the other carbody mods Don mentioned. This configuration was painted DGLE, then Tuscan. In the 1954 year of interest that several on the list share this small number board configuration in Tuscan was typical. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:21:19 -0500 MessageAll, Bill Volkmer's explanation gets into the aspects, or drawbacks of the = form MP229 that probably make them a lot less useful than we modelers or = researchers wish they would be. As he stated, the MP229 gives a = divisional assignment as well as an ARF code number that identifies the = Road Foreman or Assistant Road Foreman of Engines to which the = responsibility for arranging for the Monthly Inspection for that = locomotive falls. There were sheets published with the MP229 that = decoded the ARF numbers to the foremans' names and their Regional = affiliation. Discussion has risen numerous times on various web group = discussions as to whether the Holy Grail will ever be found that relates = the Foremens' names to the enginehouses where they were employed - thus = providing the missing link in relating locomotives to enginehouses. In = addition to the fact that this may only tell us that a particular = locomotive might only make an appearance at that enginehouse once a = month for its MI and operate elsewhere the rest of the time, it is not = likely that such a list, if it exists, will be as helpful as hoped. Let = me give some examples from the 1954 Western Region assignments that has = been discussed to show how messy this gets. (And keep in mind that the = steam locomotives are not even included in this discussion.)=20 If you compare the MP229 to that "other" document without an MP form = number Bill described (in this case one entitled " Diesel Power - = Monthly Maintenance Point, by Divisions, by Classes, by Unit Numbers = 8-1-54", published by the Office - G.S.M.P., Chicago. Illinois), this is = some of what you find: (note G.S.M.P. =3D General Superintendent of = Motive Power) -The 13 listed Western Region Maintenance points were: Columbus Diesel = Shop, St. Clair Ave. E.H., Cincinnati, Sandusky, Fort Wayne, Crestline, = Grand Rapids, Chicago, Logansport, Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville = and Indianapolis.=20 -The MP229 listed assignments for 5 Divisions on the Western Region: = Columbus, Cincinnati, Southwestern, Chicago and Ft. Wayne. =20 -There were 22 Western Region active ARF codes listed for that month. I did a partial correlation of the assigned ARF codes to the maintenance = points via the 342 specific locomotives listed and found: - 6 of the 13 Maintenance Points show locos assigned to more than one = Division: St. Clair had locos from Cin.& Col. Divisions; Columbus had = them from Col. & FtW.; Fort Wayne from FtW., Cin. & Chi.; Logansport = from Chi., Cin. & Col., as examples. - All Maintenance Points had locos assigned to more than one ARF: = several as few as 2 ARF to as many as 7 ARF. Sandusky had only 5 locos = assigned, all Columbus Division ES-12, but each was assigned to a = different ARF, as an example. =20 - Most ARF codes had locos assigned to two or more Maintenance Points: = L.L. Smith, # 711, had his at Columbus, St. Clair, Sandusky & = Logansport; H.G. Fuller, # 611, had his at Terre Haute, Rose Lake, = Louisville & Indianapolis; R.L. Pruitt, # 823, had his at Columbus, Fort = Wayne, Crestline & Grand Rapids, for examples.=20 Needless to say, this all seems to indicate that neither of these = documents necessarily tell us where exactly we might expect to find a = given locomotive in service, particularly road units, although it may = tell us the general area. It is more likely that the area of usage for = Yard engines may well be derived from these documents as they tended not = to travel as far in service as road units. =20 As further illustration of the confusion, lets look at Rick Tipton's = comments (in green) from what he thought the MP229 was telling him: "As is logical, those 1960 assignments show the progression toward = assigning only local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 = assignments: * 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. = But a different SW-1 than in 1954 * 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher = power (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power). * 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati. 19 were assigned = there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units. * 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit. There were three of these H-20-44 = endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952. BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments = with those of a single maintenance point. But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is = the only maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati = Division (in 1960 part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is = probably valid." The Maintenance Point document tells us that actually in 8-54, what was = assigned to Cincinnati was: *1 ES6 *15 FS10 *2 FS20 *1 LS25 a list not much different than the 1960 list, also showing only Switcher = and Road Switcher class locos, but no road units. The rest of the Cincinnati Division engines were assigned for = maintenance at: *1 switcher each at Logansport, Fort Wayne & St. Clair Ave. *all the 28 road units (4 EF15a + 24 EFP15) at St. Clair Ave.=20 Thus his assumption that all the Cincinnati Division assigned locos were = maintained at Cincinnati is not valid.=20 "By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus = Diesel Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue). Centralizing = maintenance of the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all = over the Buckeye Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" = anyway, so it wasn't hard to get them back." As noted above, F7 and FP7 were already maintained at St. Clair Ave. = Enginehouse in Columbus in 1954 (not the Columbus Diesel shop - which = had only 19 BP20 and 2 EP20 assigned there at that time).=20 "Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were = assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 = units, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know = whether this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- = but they appear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number = of our pictures" =20 So although 24 EFP15 were assigned to a Cincinnati Division ARF, their = assigned Maintenance point was at St. Clair Ave. (at least on 8-54). At = the same time, there were also 23 FtW. Div. EFP15 assigned MI to = Crestline and 4 SouthWest Div. EFP15 assigned MI at Indianapolis. As = some insight to these assignments, the initial 1952 service assignments = for the 45 EFP15 units originally assigned to the Western Region were = listed in other documents as being on a number of trains and services = all over the Western Region. The only specific Cincinnati Division = assignment was on Indpls.-Cinti. trains CI3-4. So unless assignments = changed dramatically by 1954, the 24 Cincinnati Division EFP15 in 1954 = may not have operated as much on that Division as the MP229 listings = would seem to suggest and be less of a "zinger" than they appeared.... = but, without specific service assignment data from 1954, this is only a = guess. Anybody confused yet? The bottom line here is that the MP229 listings = must be taken with a large grain of salt as to inferring service = assignments from them. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Volkmer=20 To: RickTipton@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] Assignment peccadillos (MP229) All: =20 As I recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to = specific Road Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc. = For the mostpart, the units were in the same region or division as the = Road Foreman but not necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as = an example roamed systemwide. There was another document which I don't = recall having a MP number assigned but which showed on a unit by unit = basis which ENGINEHOUSE the unit was assiged to. This meant that once a = month each assigned unit had to be operated to its home base for a = Monthly Inspection (MI) which took the place of the old boilerwash in = the steam days. =20 In some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago = for instance when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit = would receive an MI at Chicago while it was being repaired, and released = for service again. The purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to = track the various units to ensure that each unit within his purview = received monthly attention SOMEWHERE, and keep the federal men off the = railroad's collective back. =20 I think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of = the Pennsy Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the = books at my fingertips at the moment. =20 During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to Columbus = Diesel Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s and = F3s and C Liners etc. =20 Bill Volkmer ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C3C11F.CB4EEC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Message
All,
 
Bill Volkmer's explanation gets into = the aspects,=20 or drawbacks of the form MP229 that probably make them a lot less useful = than we=20 modelers or researchers wish they would be. As he stated, the MP229 = gives a=20 divisional assignment as well as an ARF code number that identifies the = Road=20 Foreman or Assistant Road Foreman of Engines to which the responsibility = for=20 arranging for the  Monthly Inspection for that locomotive falls.=20 There were sheets published with the MP229 that decoded the=20 ARF numbers to the foremans' names and their=20 Regional affiliation. Discussion has risen numerous times on = various web=20 group discussions as to whether the Holy Grail will ever be found that = relates=20 the Foremens' names to the enginehouses where they were employed - thus=20 providing the missing link in relating locomotives to enginehouses. In = addition=20 to the fact that this may only tell us that a particular locomotive = might only=20 make an appearance at that enginehouse once a month for its MI and = operate=20 elsewhere the rest of the time, it is not likely that such a list, if it = exists,=20 will be as helpful as hoped. Let me give some examples from = the 1954=20 Western Region assignments that has been discussed to show how = messy this=20 gets. (And keep in mind that the steam locomotives are not even included = in this=20 discussion.)
 
If you compare the MP229 to that = "other" document=20 without an MP form number Bill described (in this case one = entitled "=20 Diesel Power - Monthly Maintenance Point, by Divisions, by Classes, by = Unit=20 Numbers 8-1-54", published by the Office - G.S.M.P., Chicago. Illinois), = this is=20 some of what you find: (note G.S.M.P. =3D General Superintendent of = Motive=20 Power)
 
-The 13 listed Western Region = Maintenance points=20 were: Columbus Diesel Shop, St. Clair Ave. E.H., Cincinnati, Sandusky, = Fort=20 Wayne, Crestline, Grand Rapids, Chicago, Logansport, Terre Haute, Rose = Lake,=20 Louisville and Indianapolis.
-The=20 MP229 listed assignments for 5 Divisions on the = Western=20 Region: Columbus, Cincinnati, Southwestern, Chicago and Ft. Wayne.  =
-There were 22 Western Region active = ARF codes=20 listed for that month.
 
I did a partial correlation of the = assigned ARF=20 codes to the maintenance points via the 342 specific locomotives listed = and=20 found:
 
- 6 of the 13 Maintenance Points = show locos=20 assigned to more than one Division: St. Clair had locos from Cin.& = Col.=20 Divisions; Columbus had them from Col. & FtW.; Fort Wayne from FtW., = Cin.=20 & Chi.; Logansport from Chi., Cin. & Col., as = examples.
- All Maintenance Points had locos = assigned to more=20 than one ARF: several as few as 2 ARF to as many as 7 ARF. Sandusky = had=20 only 5 locos assigned, all Columbus Division ES-12, but each was = assigned=20 to a different ARF, as an example. 
- Most ARF codes had locos assigned to = two or more=20 Maintenance Points: L.L. Smith, # 711, had his at Columbus, = St. Clair,=20 Sandusky & Logansport; H.G. Fuller, # 611, had his at Terre = Haute, Rose=20 Lake, Louisville & Indianapolis; R.L. Pruitt, # 823, had his at = Columbus,=20 Fort Wayne, Crestline & Grand Rapids, for examples.
 
Needless to say, this all seems to = indicate that=20 neither of these documents necessarily tell us where exactly we might = expect to=20 find a given locomotive in service, particularly road units, although it = may=20 tell us the general area. It is more likely that the area of usage for = Yard=20 engines may well be derived from these documents as they tended not to = travel as=20 far in service as road units.
 
As further illustration of the = confusion, lets look=20 at Rick Tipton's comments (in green) from what he thought the MP229 was = telling=20 him:
 
"As is logical, = those 1960=20 assignments show the progression toward assigning only local units to=20 Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments:

* 1 ES6 - = probably for=20 tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue.  But a different = SW-1 than=20 in 1954
* 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be = switcher power (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power).
* 17 FS10 - = the=20 original switcher power in Cincinnati.  19 were assigned there in = 1950, and=20 14 of these are the original units.
* 1 FS20 - used as a transfer = unit. =20 There were three of these H-20-44 endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit = in 1950=20 and 1952.

BTW,=20 it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with = those of a=20 single maintenance point.  But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only=20 maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in = 1960 part=20 of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably=20 valid."
The Maintenance Point document tells us = that=20 actually in 8-54, what was assigned to Cincinnati was:
*1   ES6
*15 FS10
*2  FS20
*1   LS25
 
a list not much different than the 1960 = list, also=20 showing only Switcher and Road Switcher class locos, but no road=20 units.
The rest of the Cincinnati Division = engines were=20 assigned for maintenance at:
*1 switcher each at Logansport, Fort = Wayne &=20 St. Clair Ave.
*all the 28 road units (4 EF15a + 24 = EFP15) at St.=20 Clair Ave.
 
Thus his assumption that all the = Cincinnati=20 Division assigned locos were maintained at Cincinnati is not valid. =

"By 1960, all = the F-7 and=20 FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Diesel Shop (I'm assuming = this is=20 St. Clair Avenue).  Centralizing maintenance of the road fleet = there made=20 good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye Region (and beyond it), = but "all=20 roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't hard to get them=20 back."
As noted above, F7 and FP7 were = already=20 maintained at St. Clair Ave. Enginehouse in Columbus in 1954 (not the = Columbus=20 Diesel shop - which had only 19 BP20 and 2 EP20 assigned there at that = time).=20

"Just to insert a zinger, for some = reason a=20 fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were assigned to Cincinnati, at least through=20 1954.  This fleet was about 20 units, versus the 8 you report on = the Middle=20 Division.  Don't know whether this was protection power at Cincy, = or what=20 the rationale was -- but they appear (on passenger, on freight, and at=20 Pendleton) in a number of our pictures"
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  =20
So although 24 EFP15 were assigned = to a=20 Cincinnati Division ARF, their assigned Maintenance point was at = St. Clair=20 Ave. (at least on 8-54). At the same time, there were also 23 FtW. = Div.=20 EFP15 assigned MI to Crestline and 4 SouthWest Div. EFP15 assigned MI at = Indianapolis. As some insight to these assignments, the initial = 1952=20 service assignments for the 45 EFP15 units originally assigned to the = Western=20 Region were listed in other documents as being on a number of trains and = services all over the Western Region. The only specific Cincinnati = Division=20 assignment was on Indpls.-Cinti. trains CI3-4. So unless assignments = changed=20 dramatically by 1954, the 24 Cincinnati Division EFP15 in 1954 may not = have=20 operated as much on that Division as the MP229 listings would seem to = suggest=20 and be less of a "zinger" than they appeared.... but, without specific service assignment data from 1954, = this is=20 only a guess.
 
Anybody confused yet? The bottom line = here is that=20 the MP229 listings must be taken with a large grain of salt as to = inferring=20 service assignments from them.
 
Jack Consoli
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill Volkmer
To: RickTipton@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: RE: [PRR] Assignment = peccadillos=20 (MP229)

All:
 
As I=20 recall, the MP229 was a document that assigned various diesels to = specific=20 Road Foremen of Engines as a means of tracking mileage etc.  For = the=20 mostpart, the units were in the same region or division as the Road = Foreman=20 but not necessarily, since obviously the passenger units as an example = roamed=20 systemwide.  There was another document which I don't recall = having a MP=20 number assigned but which showed on a unit by unit basis which = ENGINEHOUSE the=20 unit was assiged to.  This meant that once a month each assigned = unit had=20 to be operated to its home base for a Monthly Inspection (MI) which = took =20 the place of the old boilerwash in the steam days.
 
In=20 some cases, a unit was laid up for minor wreck damage in Chicago for = instance=20 when it was due in Enola for MI. In this case, the unit would receive = an MI at=20 Chicago while it was being repaired, and released for service = again.  The=20 purpose of the MP229 was to assign a person to track the various units = to=20 ensure that each unit within his purview received monthly attention = SOMEWHERE,=20 and keep the federal men off the railroad's collective=20 back.
 
I=20 think we reproduced that motive power assignment sheets in one of the = Pennsy=20 Diesel Years series, probably Volume 5 or 6, I don't have the books at = my=20 fingertips at the moment.
 
During my watch (1958-68) the EFP-15s were all assigned to = Columbus=20 Diesel Shop but they ran all over the system mixed in with the F-7s = and F3s=20 and C Liners etc.
 
Bill=20 Volkmer
------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01C3C11F.CB4EEC80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:36:32 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John: MTH is Mike's Train House, a manufacturer of 027, 0, G scale model trains. They are claiming a patent on a number of things which is being fought by QSI (maker of BLI's sound/decoder circuitry), Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, Soundtraxx, Lionel and possibly others. The ONLY feature in the BLI decoders under "contention" is the cruise control for constant speed up/down grade under DCC. MTH claims to hold the patent on using Back-EMF to accomplish this. This IS being contended. I would suggest if you are interested in more details, join the Soundtraxx or Digitrax yahoogroups (www.yahoogroups.com) and look at the archives. It has been discussed in great length on both lists. MTH is NOT claiming anything PRR specific!!! IMHO, it seems that all they managed to do was to move shipping schedules back a few months while the lawyers made more money. Jeff Warner bobsin@nac.net wrote: >Don writes, > >"With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder >manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound >capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings." > >+++++++++ > >Say again? What is this? Did I miss something? Googling "MTH" >turned up only that somebody called MTH was sued by Greyhound >for making bus models without their permission (to use the >Greyhound logo). What's going on here? Does someone have a >copyright on the sound of an M1 or something? > >John Bobsin > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:41:17 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] m 1 Don: MTH is claiming a patent on a number of things which is being fought by QSI (maker of BLI's sound/decoder circuitry), Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, Soundtraxx, Lionel and possibly others. The ONLY feature in the BLI decoders under "contention" is the cruise control for constant speed up/down grade under DCC. MTH claims to hold the patent on using Back-EMF to accomplish this. This IS being contended. BLI is currently shipping locomotives with ONLY this feature disabled. That is the extent of the "watered-down", and I (THE FOLLOWING IS MY PERSONAL OPINION) feel that it will be re-enabled within the next few months. I would suggest if you are interested in more details, join the Soundtraxx or Digitrax yahoogroups (www.yahoogroups.com) and look at the archives. It has been discussed in great length on both lists. This ONLY affected the most recent December to January movement of the PRR M1 by BLI. All the others were due to "problems" in production. Mostly, they listened to the customers when they were showing the pre-production models at conventions and train shows and IMPROVED the model. Yes, I know this can be frustrating, especially for your son. But, I think we will all be more pleased in the long run that BLI took the time to do this right... BLI is a relatively new company and some of this is to be expected. Jeff Warner bearcreekwest@netscape.net wrote: >Early in 2003 when BLI's offerings consisted of the NYC Hudson & PRR M1, , the N&W Class A, PRR GG1, EMD E7, PRR T1, & USRA Heavy Mikado 2-8-2 weren't even mentioned in the offerings - yet the scheduled delivery date of June 2003 for the M1, then November 2003, then December 2003 have been slipped yet again to January 2004 while the GG1, E7, and N&W class A are in people's hands. For those people who have been pleased by the release of the GG1, E7, Hudson, etc., there are those who wonder if the M1 will ever arrive. I had planned on the M1 as a birthday present for my son in July - didn't happen then as a Christmas present - still won't happen. With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings. > >Don Luke >Tucson, AZ > > > > > >Prr6100@aol.com wrote: > > > >>Has anyone heard or have they gotten the Pennsy M-1's yet, The BLI website >>says early 2004, but they have moved it several times already. >> >> >> > > > >__________________________________________________________________ >McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. >Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! >http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 > >Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! >http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > --------------060404080509020400010002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Don:

MTH is claiming a patent on a number of things which is being fought by QSI (maker of BLI's sound/decoder circuitry), Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, Soundtraxx, Lionel and possibly others.  The ONLY feature in the BLI decoders under "contention" is the cruise control for constant speed up/down grade under DCC.  MTH claims to hold the patent on using Back-EMF to accomplish this.  This IS being contended.  BLI is currently shipping locomotives with ONLY this feature disabled.  That is the extent of the "watered-down", and I (THE FOLLOWING IS MY PERSONAL OPINION) feel that it will be re-enabled within the next few months.

I would suggest if you are interested in more details, join the Soundtraxx or Digitrax yahoogroups (www.yahoogroups.com) and look at the archives.  It has been discussed in great length on both lists.

This ONLY affected the most recent December to January movement of the PRR M1 by BLI.  All the others were due to "problems" in production.  Mostly, they listened to the customers when they were showing the pre-production models at conventions and train shows and IMPROVED the model.  Yes, I know this can be frustrating, especially for your son.  But, I think we will all be more pleased in the long run that BLI took the time to do this right...  BLI is a relatively new company and some of this is to be expected.

Jeff Warner


bearcreekwest@netscape.net wrote:
Early in 2003 when BLI's offerings consisted of the NYC Hudson & PRR M1, , the N&W Class A, PRR GG1, EMD E7, PRR T1, & USRA Heavy Mikado 2-8-2 weren't even mentioned in the offerings - yet the scheduled delivery date of June 2003 for the M1, then November 2003, then December 2003 have been slipped yet again to January 2004 while the GG1, E7, and N&W class A are in people's hands.  For those people who have been pleased by the release of the GG1, E7, Hudson, etc., there are those who wonder if the M1 will ever arrive.  I had planned on the M1 as a birthday present for my son in July - didn't happen then as a Christmas present - still won't happen.  With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings.

Don Luke
Tucson, AZ





Prr6100@aol.com wrote:

  
Has anyone heard or have they gotten the Pennsy M-1's yet, The BLI website 
says early 2004, but they have moved it several times already.

    



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--------------060404080509020400010002-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:21:19 -0500 From: CENTGA@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI E7's Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: In a message dated 12/13/2003 12:43:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, stevehprr@earthlink.net writes: > Hold on: don't everybody jump on those CalScale large number boards. All > that Don says is true, but that would be for 1955 or so and later. Adding > the large number boards would be the last mod until MU fittings on the nose > were added. There was another configuration that retained the original > small numberboards but had all the other carbody mods Don mentioned. This > configuration was painted DGLE, then Tuscan. In the 1954 year of interest > that several on the list share this small number board > configuration in > Tuscan was typical. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL If BLI did the specific PRR mods their model would be worth the asking price. If all your getting is questionable sound and a paint job it's hard for me to get excited about them then. I know the LL model has issues with the nose on the E7's but hopefully they will be corrected on a later release of the model. BLI could corner the E7 market with a PRR version of the E7. Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: Prr-Talk@dsop.com (PRR-Talk) From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI E7's Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:23:45 -0500 To: ndbprr@att.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 12, 2003, at 5:52 PM, ndbprr@att.net wrote: > So they are planning on two different tuscan sets and one DGLE > acording to > their web site. Anybody know if they are planning on one set cat > whiskers > and one single stripe or two different number sets of one or the other? There are two Tuscan sets and two DGLE sets. Can't respond on the whiskers question at this time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:53:06 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Kinzua Bridge From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Cc: PRR-talk From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: [PRR] Re: MS-60 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:53:36 -0500 To: RBurg74133@aol.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 12, 2003, at 4:42 PM, RBurg74133@aol.com wrote: > I have a copy of a consist book dated 10/25/1964 which states on The > front cover that "ALL MS-60 EXPRESS AND PAPER CARS ARE TO BE R-50 OR > X-29 TYPE UNLESS OTHERWISE INDICATED.' > I hope this clarifies what was used for an MS-60 I find this interesting, as in the mid-1950's we know that B60's qualified as MS60's. I wonder if enough B60's had been retired by 1964 that they were reserved for baggage express only and not utilized for mail storage? I have checked and re-checked the 1954 consist book and there is no definition of an MS60 other than to say "Mail Storage". ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred in Vt." Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:15:03 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John and List, Was there recent mention that MTH has purchased the trade mark rights to Pacific Electric, and notice was given that if you use the name>>you pay a trade mark fee. Law suit time??? Glad I never was an SP fan. Some people stay up too late at night just to think up ways to stick it others. Kiss my aunt Fannie, and stay in the box you've created for yourself. Done ranting. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:18 PM Subject: [PRR] MTH? > Don writes, > > "With the recent legal proceedings by MTH against decoder > manufacturers, one might also wonder if the DCC and sound > capability will be watered down in future BLI offerings." > > +++++++++ > > Say again? What is this? Did I miss something? Googling "MTH" > turned up only that somebody called MTH was sued by Greyhound > for making bus models without their permission (to use the > Greyhound logo). What's going on here? Does someone have a > copyright on the sound of an M1 or something? > > John Bobsin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "edmund burbage" Subject: [PRR] QUESTION Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:47:51 -0500 Would anyone out there have a nice B & W photo of a PRR XL car I could = borrow to make a copy of for an article Iam doing for the Delmarva = Chapter of the NRHS? I will be glad to pay for a copy!! Please let me know, I would = appreciate any assistance. Thank You: Lee BURBAGE BMCM USCG-Ret. P.O. Box 143 Ocean View, DE. 19970-0143 leeprrswitchkey@msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_06C3_01C3C188.15DB1C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Would anyone out there have a nice B & W photo of a PRR XL car = I could=20 borrow to make a copy of for an article Iam doing for the Delmarva = Chapter of=20 the NRHS?
 
I will be glad to pay for a copy!! Please let me know, I would = appreciate=20 any assistance.
 
Thank You:
 
 
Lee BURBAGE
BMCM  USCG-Ret.
P.O. Box 143
Ocean View, DE. 19970-0143
 
 
leeprrswitchkey@msn.com
= ------=_NextPart_000_06C3_01C3C188.15DB1C20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bert Decker" Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 15:38:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Fred, et al. I believe it was Model Traction Supply (MTS) who "Trade Marked" Pacific Electric, which is interesting in that PE is one of the predecessor lines of UP conglomerate. Bert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 13:44:34 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser B6sb From: "DON MURPHY" Subject: [PRR] Bowser B6sb Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 18:59:44 -0500 The Bowser A5 tender was a great disappointment to me. When I built mine, I used an old English tender. It was proportioned much better than the Bowser and I lived with the Frisbee sized rivets. The Mantua slope back tender is also better than the Bowser. After adding all the detail to the Bowser A% and remotoring it for better performance, I found I could get a Sunset A5 for about the same money. That ended my career as a Bowser kit builder. I gradually sold the two dozen or so I had and bought Sunset H's, B6s, I1s, and M1s for my Renovo Division. It was the best move I ever made. The Sunsets run great when they are tuned and adequate weight is added to both the engine and tender. Along the way a few PFM engines were acquired. They are even nicer than the Sunsets and when bought at shows cost about what it takes to buy, build, detail and remoter a Bowser kit. Don Murphy Recreating Operations on the Renovo Division of the PRR Circa 1946 -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Doug Kisala Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:45 PM To: Gary Mittner; PRR talk Subject: Re: Gary, list, Bowser's catalog states that the tooling for the A5s was all new and not related at all to the English tooling. When I get home to Florida, I can look at the B6sb I ordered from Jerry. Doug --- Gary Mittner wrote, in part: > > What did Bowser use for the A5s Tender of 10 > years ago? New Casting > or the old English Yardbird Tender?...Gary ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3C1AB.46351C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [PRR] Bowser B6sb

The Bowser A5 tender was a great disappointment to me. When I built mine, I used an old English tender. It = was proportioned much = better than the = Bowser and I lived with = the Frisbee sized rivets. The Mantua slope back tender = is also better than the Bowser. After adding all the detail to the Bowser A% and = remotoring it for better performance, I found I could get a Sunset A5 = for about the same = money. That ended my = career as a Bowser kit = builder. I gradually sold = the two dozen or so I had  and bought Sunset H’s, B6s, I1s, and M1s for my Renovo Division. It was = the best move I ever made. The Sunsets run great when they are tuned and = adequate = weight is added to both the engine and = tender. Along the way a few = PFM engines were acquired. They are even nicer than the Sunsets and when = bought at shows cost about what it = takes to buy, build, detail = and remoter a Bowser kit.

Don Murphy

Recreating Operations on the Renovo Division of the PRR Circa = 1946

-----Original Message-----

From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Doug = Kisala

Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:45 PM

To: Gary Mittner; PRR talk

Subject: Re:


Gary, list,

Bowser's catalog states that the tooling for the = A5s

was all new and not related at all to the English

tooling. 

When I get home to Florida, I can look at the B6sb = I

ordered from Jerry.

Doug


--- Gary Mittner <mittner@webtv.net> wrote, in = part:

> >      What did Bowser use for the = A5s Tender of 10

> years ago? New Casting

> or the old English Yardbird  = Tender?...Gary

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3C1AB.46351C40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:34:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:53:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BLI E7's Steve writes... > There was another configuration that retained the original small > numberboards but had all the other carbody mods Don mentioned. This configuration was > painted DGLE, then Tuscan. In the 1954 year of interest that several on the > list share this small number board configuration in Tuscan was typical. > > Steve Hoxie Steve is correct and Don is right on... But the issue here is that the car bodies after around April of 1951 began to change, just as Don had mentioned. Also the pilots began changing and the journals were getting swapped around ... ect! The issue is you have to do all these modifications to a set of units that are not available as undecorated. The grills for the roof I have already bought ... that was easy. But for me, who doesn't wish to run under DCC and the sound issue would be nice but... So I will move with the same game plan I have always had and modify my Model Power. These units I have never exhibited the running quality issues some had experienced. Greg Martin --part1_ad.374ab058.2d0d1c8e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Steve writes...

There was another configuration= that retained the original small numberboards but had all the other carbody= mods Don mentioned.  This configuration was painted DGLE, then Tuscan.=   In the 1954 year of interest that several on the list share this smal= l number board configuration in Tuscan was typical.

Steve Hoxie


Steve is correct and Don is right on... But the issue here is that the car b= odies after around April of 1951 began to change, just as Don had mentioned.= Also the pilots began changing and the journals were getting swapped around= ... ect! The issue is you have to do all these modifications to a set of un= its that are not available as undecorated. The grills for the roof I have al= ready bought ... that was easy. But for me, who doesn't wish to run under DC= C and the sound issue would be nice but... So I will move with the same game= plan I have always had and modify my Model Power. These units I have never=20= exhibited the running quality issues some had experienced.

Greg Martin --part1_ad.374ab058.2d0d1c8e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 21:29:31 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: MS-60 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:20:14 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: John: No, MTH currently makes no DCC products. Nor do they make anything in N scale or HO scale. Future plans????? The patent specifically mentions the use of all this stuff for model railroads. That's the "new" part about back-emf in the patent. Jeff bobsin@nac.net wrote: >Oh well, it recalls the old adage, "A patent grants you nothing but >the right to sue someone." Does MTH make DCC decoders, then? > Certainly the use of back-EMF to control motor speed is nothing >new! Let's hope that 25% of product price doesn't end up going to >lawyers! -- John Bobsin > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:56:29 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: My first recollection of using back EMF to provide feed back control of speed of a model railroad locomtive was Linn Wescott in his first TAT throtle, back in the mid 1960s. I do not see how a a subsequent patent could hold up in court. Fred Rea ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Warner" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] MTH? > John: > > No, MTH currently makes no DCC products. Nor do they make anything in N > scale or HO scale. > > Future plans????? > > The patent specifically mentions the use of all this stuff for model > railroads. That's the "new" part about back-emf in the patent. > > Jeff > > bobsin@nac.net wrote: > > >Oh well, it recalls the old adage, "A patent grants you nothing but > >the right to sue someone." Does MTH make DCC decoders, then? > > Certainly the use of back-EMF to control motor speed is nothing > >new! Let's hope that 25% of product price doesn't end up going to > >lawyers! -- John Bobsin > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:07:33 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Fun with Cincinnati loco assignments In a message dated 12/13/03 2:23:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, jconsoli@paonline.com writes: > All, > > Bill Volkmer's explanation gets into the aspects, or drawbacks of the form > MP229 that probably make them a lot less useful than we modelers or > researchers wish they would be. As he stated, the MP229 gives a divisional assignment > as well as an ARF code number that identifies the Road Foreman or Assistant > Road Foreman of Engines to which the responsibility for arranging for the > Monthly Inspection for that locomotive falls. There were sheets published with > the MP229 that decoded the ARF numbers to the foremans' names and their > Regional affiliation. Discussion has risen numerous times on various web group > discussions as to whether the Holy Grail will ever be found that relates the > Foremens' names to the enginehouses where they were employed - thus providing the > missing link in relating locomotives to enginehouses. In addition to the fact > that this may only tell us that a particular locomotive might only make an > appearance at that enginehouse once a month for its MI and operate elsewhere > the rest of the time, it is not likely that such a list, if it exists, will be > as helpful as hoped. Let me give some examples from the 1954 Western Region > assignments that has been discussed to show how messy this gets. (And keep in > mind that the steam locomotives are not even included in this discussion.) > > If you compare the MP229 to that "other" document without an MP form number > Bill described (in this case one entitled " Diesel Power - Monthly > Maintenance Point, by Divisions, by Classes, by Unit Numbers 8-1-54", published by the > Office - G.S.M.P., Chicago. Illinois), this is some of what you find: (note > G.S.M.P. = General Superintendent of Motive Power) > > -The 13 listed Western Region Maintenance points were: Columbus Diesel Shop, > St. Clair Ave. E.H., Cincinnati, Sandusky, Fort Wayne, Crestline, Grand > Rapids, Chicago, Logansport, Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville and Indianapolis. > > -The MP229 listed assignments for 5 Divisions on the Western Region: > Columbus, Cincinnati, Southwestern, Chicago and Ft. Wayne. > -There were 22 Western Region active ARF codes listed for that month. > > I did a partial correlation of the assigned ARF codes to the maintenance > points via the 342 specific locomotives listed and found: > > - 6 of the 13 Maintenance Points show locos assigned to more than one > Division: St. Clair had locos from Cin.& Col. Divisions; Columbus had them from > Col. & FtW.; Fort Wayne from FtW., Cin. & Chi.; Logansport from Chi., Cin. & > Col., as examples. > - All Maintenance Points had locos assigned to more than one ARF: several as > few as 2 ARF to as many as 7 ARF. Sandusky had only 5 locos assigned, all > Columbus Division ES-12, but each was assigned to a different ARF, as an > example. > - Most ARF codes had locos assigned to two or more Maintenance Points: L.L. > Smith, # 711, had his at Columbus, St. Clair, Sandusky & Logansport; H.G. > Fuller, # 611, had his at Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville & Indianapolis; > R.L. Pruitt, # 823, had his at Columbus, Fort Wayne, Crestline & Grand Rapids, > for examples. > > Needless to say, this all seems to indicate that neither of these documents > necessarily tell us where exactly we might expect to find a given locomotive > in service, particularly road units, although it may tell us the general > area. It is more likely that the area of usage for Yard engines may well be > derived from these documents as they tended not to travel as far in service as > road units. > > As further illustration of the confusion, lets look at Rick Tipton's > comments (in green) from what he thought the MP229 was telling him: > > "As is logical, those 1960 assignments show the progression toward assigning > only local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments: > > * 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. But > a different SW-1 than in 1954 > * 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power > (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power). > * 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati. 19 were assigned > there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units. > * 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit. There were three of these H-20-44 > endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952. > > BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with > those of a single maintenance point. But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only > maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in 1960 > part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid." > > The Maintenance Point document tells us that actually in 8-54, what was > assigned to Cincinnati was: > *1 ES6 > *15 FS10 > *2 FS20 > *1 LS25 > > a list not much different than the 1960 list, also showing only Switcher and > Road Switcher class locos, but no road units. That August 1954 assignment sounds even more like Cincinnati's November 1954 MP229 of ES6 (1), FS10 (19), FS20 (2), and LS25 (1). > The rest of the Cincinnati Division engines were assigned for maintenance > at: > *1 switcher each at Logansport, Fort Wayne & St. Clair Ave. > *all the 28 road units (4 EF15a + 24 EFP15) at St. Clair Ave. > > Thus his assumption that all the Cincinnati Division assigned locos were > maintained at Cincinnati is not valid. > > "By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus > Diesel Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue). Centralizing maintenance of > the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye > Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't > hard to get them back." > > As noted above, F7 and FP7 were already maintained at St. Clair Ave. > Enginehouse in Columbus in 1954 (not the Columbus Diesel shop - which had only 19 > BP20 and 2 EP20 assigned there at that time). > > "Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were > assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 units, > versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know whether this was > protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they appear (on > passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictures" > > So although 24 EFP15 were assigned to a Cincinnati Division ARF, their > assigned Maintenance point was at St. Clair Ave. (at least on 8-54). At the same > time, there were also 23 FtW. Div. EFP15 assigned MI to Crestline and 4 > SouthWest Div. EFP15 assigned MI at Indianapolis. As some insight to these > assignments, the initial 1952 service assignments for the 45 EFP15 units originally > assigned to the Western Region were listed in other documents as being on a > number of trains and services all over the Western Region. The only specific > Cincinnati Division assignment was on Indpls.-Cinti. trains CI3-4. So unless > assignments changed dramatically by 1954, the 24 Cincinnati Division EFP15 in > 1954 may not have operated as much on that Division as the MP229 listings > would seem to suggest and be less of a "zinger" than they appeared.... but, > without specific service assignment data from 1954, this is only a guess. > > Anybody confused yet? The bottom line here is that the MP229 listings must > be taken with a large grain of salt as to inferring service assignments from > them. > > Jack Consoli > Thanks, Jack. Point taken -- it seems you're always educating me in the inconsistencies of PRR records , and I'm glad you're willing to do that. Your additional data does add to the GENERAL feel of PRR power that was seen in Cincinnati -- it was a mix of locally assigned power (however determined) and road units bringing trains in from other major points (especially Columbus and Chicago). One thing's clear -- Alco lovers would have hated Cincinnati (PRR) as it was heavily EMD and FM, with some Baldwin thrown in. OTOH, those poor souls who loved Alcos could always go over to the Mill Creek Valley and see the B&O switcher fleet, many of them with Blunt trucks. See you all in Zinzinnati in der spring... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:07:33 EST Subject: [PRR] Fun with Cincinnati loco assignments In a message dated 12/13/03 2:23:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, jconsoli@paonline.com writes: > All, > > Bill Volkmer's explanation gets into the aspects, or drawbacks of the form > MP229 that probably make them a lot less useful than we modelers or > researchers wish they would be. As he stated, the MP229 gives a divisional assignment > as well as an ARF code number that identifies the Road Foreman or Assistant > Road Foreman of Engines to which the responsibility for arranging for the > Monthly Inspection for that locomotive falls. There were sheets published with > the MP229 that decoded the ARF numbers to the foremans' names and their > Regional affiliation. Discussion has risen numerous times on various web group > discussions as to whether the Holy Grail will ever be found that relates the > Foremens' names to the enginehouses where they were employed - thus providing the > missing link in relating locomotives to enginehouses. In addition to the fact > that this may only tell us that a particular locomotive might only make an > appearance at that enginehouse once a month for its MI and operate elsewhere > the rest of the time, it is not likely that such a list, if it exists, will be > as helpful as hoped. Let me give some examples from the 1954 Western Region > assignments that has been discussed to show how messy this gets. (And keep in > mind that the steam locomotives are not even included in this discussion.) > > If you compare the MP229 to that "other" document without an MP form number > Bill described (in this case one entitled " Diesel Power - Monthly > Maintenance Point, by Divisions, by Classes, by Unit Numbers 8-1-54", published by the > Office - G.S.M.P., Chicago. Illinois), this is some of what you find: (note > G.S.M.P. = General Superintendent of Motive Power) > > -The 13 listed Western Region Maintenance points were: Columbus Diesel Shop, > St. Clair Ave. E.H., Cincinnati, Sandusky, Fort Wayne, Crestline, Grand > Rapids, Chicago, Logansport, Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville and Indianapolis. > > -The MP229 listed assignments for 5 Divisions on the Western Region: > Columbus, Cincinnati, Southwestern, Chicago and Ft. Wayne. > -There were 22 Western Region active ARF codes listed for that month. > > I did a partial correlation of the assigned ARF codes to the maintenance > points via the 342 specific locomotives listed and found: > > - 6 of the 13 Maintenance Points show locos assigned to more than one > Division: St. Clair had locos from Cin.& Col. Divisions; Columbus had them from > Col. & FtW.; Fort Wayne from FtW., Cin. & Chi.; Logansport from Chi., Cin. & > Col., as examples. > - All Maintenance Points had locos assigned to more than one ARF: several as > few as 2 ARF to as many as 7 ARF. Sandusky had only 5 locos assigned, all > Columbus Division ES-12, but each was assigned to a different ARF, as an > example. > - Most ARF codes had locos assigned to two or more Maintenance Points: L.L. > Smith, # 711, had his at Columbus, St. Clair, Sandusky & Logansport; H.G. > Fuller, # 611, had his at Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville & Indianapolis; > R.L. Pruitt, # 823, had his at Columbus, Fort Wayne, Crestline & Grand Rapids, > for examples. > > Needless to say, this all seems to indicate that neither of these documents > necessarily tell us where exactly we might expect to find a given locomotive > in service, particularly road units, although it may tell us the general > area. It is more likely that the area of usage for Yard engines may well be > derived from these documents as they tended not to travel as far in service as > road units. > > As further illustration of the confusion, lets look at Rick Tipton's > comments (in green) from what he thought the MP229 was telling him: > > "As is logical, those 1960 assignments show the progression toward assigning > only local units to Cincinnati, as compared with the 1954 assignments: > > * 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. But > a different SW-1 than in 1954 > * 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power > (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power). > * 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati. 19 were assigned > there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units. > * 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit. There were three of these H-20-44 > endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952. > > BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with > those of a single maintenance point. But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the only > maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in 1960 > part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid." > > The Maintenance Point document tells us that actually in 8-54, what was > assigned to Cincinnati was: > *1 ES6 > *15 FS10 > *2 FS20 > *1 LS25 > > a list not much different than the 1960 list, also showing only Switcher and > Road Switcher class locos, but no road units. That August 1954 assignment sounds even more like Cincinnati's November 1954 MP229 of ES6 (1), FS10 (19), FS20 (2), and LS25 (1). > The rest of the Cincinnati Division engines were assigned for maintenance > at: > *1 switcher each at Logansport, Fort Wayne & St. Clair Ave. > *all the 28 road units (4 EF15a + 24 EFP15) at St. Clair Ave. > > Thus his assumption that all the Cincinnati Division assigned locos were > maintained at Cincinnati is not valid. > > "By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus > Diesel Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue). Centralizing maintenance of > the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buckeye > Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wasn't > hard to get them back." > > As noted above, F7 and FP7 were already maintained at St. Clair Ave. > Enginehouse in Columbus in 1954 (not the Columbus Diesel shop - which had only 19 > BP20 and 2 EP20 assigned there at that time). > > "Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were > assigned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954. This fleet was about 20 units, > versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division. Don't know whether this was > protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they appear (on > passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictures" > > So although 24 EFP15 were assigned to a Cincinnati Division ARF, their > assigned Maintenance point was at St. Clair Ave. (at least on 8-54). At the same > time, there were also 23 FtW. Div. EFP15 assigned MI to Crestline and 4 > SouthWest Div. EFP15 assigned MI at Indianapolis. As some insight to these > assignments, the initial 1952 service assignments for the 45 EFP15 units originally > assigned to the Western Region were listed in other documents as being on a > number of trains and services all over the Western Region. The only specific > Cincinnati Division assignment was on Indpls.-Cinti. trains CI3-4. So unless > assignments changed dramatically by 1954, the 24 Cincinnati Division EFP15 in > 1954 may not have operated as much on that Division as the MP229 listings > would seem to suggest and be less of a "zinger" than they appeared.... but, > without specific service assignment data from 1954, this is only a guess. > > Anybody confused yet? The bottom line here is that the MP229 listings must > be taken with a large grain of salt as to inferring service assignments from > them. > > Jack Consoli > Thanks, Jack. Point taken -- it seems you're always educating me in the inconsistencies of PRR records , and I'm glad you're willing to do that. Your additional data does add to the GENERAL feel of PRR power that was seen in Cincinnati -- it was a mix of locally assigned power (however determined) and road units bringing trains in from other major points (especially Columbus and Chicago). One thing's clear -- Alco lovers would have hated Cincinnati (PRR) as it was heavily EMD and FM, with some Baldwin thrown in. OTOH, those poor souls who loved Alcos could always go over to the Mill Creek Valley and see the B&O switcher fleet, many of them with Blunt trucks. See you all in Zinzinnati in der spring... Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_140.1ea60064.2d0d6635_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 12/13/03 2:23:30 AM Eastern Standar= d Time, jconsoli@paonline.com writes:


All,

Bill Volkmer's explanation g= ets into the aspects, or drawbacks of the form MP229 that probably make them= a lot less useful than we modelers or researchers wish they would be. As he= stated, the MP229 gives a divisional assignment as well as an ARF code numb= er that identifies the Road Foreman or Assistant Road Foreman of Engines to=20= which the responsibility for arranging for the  Monthly Inspection for=20= that locomotive falls. There were sheets published with the MP229 that decod= ed the ARF numbers to the foremans' names and their Regional affiliation. Di= scussion has risen numerous times on various web group discussions as to whe= ther the Holy Grail will ever be found that relates the Foremens' names to t= he enginehouses where they were employed - thus providing the missing link i= n relating locomotives to enginehouses. In addition to the fact that this ma= y only tell us that a particular locomotive might only make an appearance at= that enginehouse once a month for its MI and operate elsewhere the rest of=20= the time, it is not likely that such a list, if it exists, will be as helpfu= l as hoped. Let me give some examples from the 1954 Western Region assignmen= ts that has been discussed to show how messy this gets. (And keep in mind th= at the steam locomotives are not even included in this discussion.) <= FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY= =3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">

If you compare the MP229 to=20= that "other" document without an MP form number Bill described (in this case= one entitled " Diesel Power - Monthly Maintenance Point, by Divisions, by C= lasses, by Unit Numbers 8-1-54", published by the Office - G.S.M.P., Chicago= . Illinois), this is some of what you find: (note G.S.M.P. =3D General Super= intendent of Motive Power)
-The 13 listed Western Regio= n Maintenance points were: Columbus Diesel Shop, St. Clair Ave. E.H., Cincin= nati, Sandusky, Fort Wayne, Crestline, Grand Rapids, Chicago, Logansport, Te= rre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville and Indianapolis.
-The MP229 listed assignment= s for 5 Divisions on the Western Region: Columbus, Cincinnati, Southwestern,= Chicago and Ft. Wayne. 
-There were 22 Western Regio= n active ARF codes listed for that month.

I did a partial correlation=20= of the assigned ARF codes to the maintenance points via the 342 specific loc= omotives listed and found:
- 6 of the 13 Maintenance Po= ints show locos assigned to more than one Division: St. Clair had locos from= Cin.& Col. Divisions; Columbus had them from Col. & FtW.; Fort Wayn= e from FtW., Cin. & Chi.; Logansport from Chi., Cin. & Col., as exam= ples.
- All Maintenance Points had= locos assigned to more than one ARF: several as few as 2 ARF to as many as=20= 7 ARF. Sandusky had only 5 locos assigned, all Columbus Division ES-12, but=20= each was assigned to a different ARF, as an example. 
- Most ARF codes had locos a= ssigned to two or more Maintenance Points: L.L. Smith, # 711, had his at Col= umbus, St. Clair, Sandusky & Logansport; H.G. Fuller, # 611, had his at=20= Terre Haute, Rose Lake, Louisville & Indianapolis; R.L. Pruitt, # 823, h= ad his at Columbus, Fort Wayne, Crestline & Grand Rapids, for examples.=20=

Needless to say, this all se= ems to indicate that neither of these documents necessarily tell us where ex= actly we might expect to find a given locomotive in service, particularly ro= ad units, although it may tell us the general area. It is more likely that t= he area of usage for Yard engines may well be derived from these documents a= s they tended not to travel as far in service as road units.

As further illustration of t= he confusion, lets look at Rick Tipton's comments (in green) from what he th= ought the MP229 was telling him:

"As is logical, those 1960 a= ssignments show the progression toward assigning only local units to Cincinn= ati, as compared with the 1954 assignments:

* 1 ES6 - probably for tight spots and light rail in Eggleston Avenue. = But a different SW-1 than in 1954
* 4 ES15m - the new guys in town; PRR considered GP-7's to be switcher power= (as opposed to the GP-9's, road power).
* 17 FS10 - the original switcher power in Cincinnati.  19 were assigne= d there in 1950, and 14 of these are the original units.
* 1 FS20 - used as a transfer unit.  There were three of these H-20-44=20= endcabs assigned in 1954, but one unit in 1950 and 1952.

BTW, it would normally be hazardous to compare divisional assignments with t= hose of a single maintenance point.  But Cincinnati (Pendleton) is the=20= only maintenance point shown in what used to be the Cincinnati Division (in=20= 1960 part of the Buckeye Region), so the comparison is probably valid."

The Maintenance Point docume= nt tells us that actually in 8-54, what was assigned to Cincinnati was:
*1   ES6
*15 FS10
*2  FS20
*1   LS25

a list not much different th= an the 1960 list, also showing only Switcher and Road Switcher class locos,=20= but no road units.


That August 1954 assignment=20= sounds even more like Cincinnati's November 1954 MP229 of ES6 (1), FS10 (19)= , FS20 (2), and LS25 (1).
The rest of the Cincinnati Division engines were assigned f= or maintenance at:
*1 switcher each at Loganspo= rt, Fort Wayne & St. Clair Ave.
*all the 28 road units (4 EF= 15a + 24 EFP15) at St. Clair Ave.

Thus his assumption that all= the Cincinnati Division assigned locos were maintained at Cincinnati is not= valid.

"By 1960, all the F-7 and FP-7 units' assignments had moved to Columbus Dies= el Shop (I'm assuming this is St. Clair Avenue).  Centralizing maintena= nce of the road fleet there made good sense; the units ran all over the Buck= eye Region (and beyond it), but "all roads led to Columbus" anyway, so it wa= sn't hard to get them back."

As noted above, F7 and FP7 were already maintained at St. Clair Ave. Engineh= ouse in Columbus in 1954 (not the Columbus Diesel shop - which had only 19 B= P20 and 2 EP20 assigned there at that time).

"Just to insert a zinger, for some reason a fleet of FP-7's (EFP15) were ass= igned to Cincinnati, at least through 1954.  This fleet was about 20 un= its, versus the 8 you report on the Middle Division.  Don't know whethe= r this was protection power at Cincy, or what the rationale was -- but they=20= appear (on passenger, on freight, and at Pendleton) in a number of our pictu= res"
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;
So although 24 EFP15 were assigned to a Cincinnati Division ARF, their assig= ned Maintenance point was at St. Clair Ave. (at least on 8-54). At the same=20= time, there were also 23 FtW. Div. EFP15 assigned MI to Crestline and 4 Sout= hWest Div. EFP15 assigned MI at Indianapolis. As some insight to these assig= nments, the initial 1952 service assignments for the 45 EFP15 units original= ly assigned to the Western Region were listed in other documents as being on= a number of trains and services all over the Western Region. The only speci= fic Cincinnati Division assignment was on Indpls.-Cinti. trains CI3-4. So un= less assignments changed dramatically by 1954, the 24 Cincinnati Division EF= P15 in 1954 may not have operated as much on that Division as the MP229 list= ings would seem to suggest and be less of a "zinger" than they appeared....=20= but, without specific service assignment data from 1954, this is only a gues= s.

Anybody confused yet? The bottom line here is that the MP229 listings must b= e taken with a large grain of salt as to inferring service assignments from=20= them.

Jack Consoli


Thanks, Jack.  Point taken -- it seems you're always educating me in th= e inconsistencies of PRR records <G>, and I'm glad you're willing to d= o that.

Your additional data does add to the GENERAL feel of PRR power that was seen= in Cincinnati -- it was a mix of locally assigned power (however determined= ) and road units bringing trains in from other major points (especially Colu= mbus and Chicago).

One thing's clear -- Alco lovers would have hated Cincinnati (PRR) as it was= heavily EMD and FM, with some Baldwin thrown in.  OTOH, those poor sou= ls who loved Alcos could always go over to the Mill Creek Valley and see the= B&O switcher fleet, many of them with Blunt trucks.

See you all in Zinzinnati in der spring...

    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_140.1ea60064.2d0d6635_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 12:57:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: MS-60 MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: All... By the mid 1960s, there were only about 75 B60b and 127 "Messenger" B60b still on the roster. Out of those cars some may have been white lined. Most of the mail was being carried by X29s and REA cars. Hope this helps. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:12:47 EST Subject: [PRR] Major Classes of Pennsylvania Freight Cars Hi Gize, I've been doing some thinking about the new HO layout - I can't see replacing most of 1000 cars right away, but I am interested in salting the layout with some better models as time goes by. Back in the September 1974 Keystone, Bob Johnson did a table called "Major Classes of Pennsylvania Railroad Freight Cars"; that table goes all the way from 1917 to 1967 and gives a sorted list of most numerous classes, with how many cars in each. Since I'm aiming at 1966-1968, the car mix will be different than on many, earlier layouts. However, bear with me a moment. The top of the 1967 list is: Class 10/31/1967 Model manufacturer H39 9886 Stewart H39A 6060 Stewart? H21A 5321 Bowser G31A 4014 X29D 3631 H43B 2989 Bowser X43B 2862 G36F 2729 X29B 2570 H35 1981 H43 1971 Bowser G35 1892 G31B 1813 G34 1772 G36E 1697 H43A 1496 Bowser X43C 1423 X43A 1406 G31F 1379 F30A 1243 Bowser You'll notice that I've listed model manufacturers where I know them. My conclusion is that (are you there, Elden?) gondolas just must not be commercial. Neither are X29 rebuilds, nor the X43 family. The dearth of gons in HO is amazing -- the G31A is in the top 5 classes since 1955, and the only thing like it is Con Cor's Revell casting, done circa 1956. Similarly, even with the opportunity to plaster "Don't Stand Me Still" all over it, the X29D continues to be represented only by poor standins. Does this stuff bother anybody else? Or do the new BLI locomotives make everything else irrelevant this year? Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West --part1_1f0.157f8e8e.2d0e648f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Gize,

I've been doing some thinking about the new HO layout - I can't see replacin= g most of 1000 cars right away, but I am interested in salting the layout wi= th some better models as time goes by.

Back in the September 1974 Keystone, Bob Johnson did a table called "Major C= lasses of Pennsylvania Railroad Freight Cars"; that table goes all the way f= rom 1917 to 1967 and gives a sorted list of most numerous classes, with how=20= many cars in each.

Since I'm aiming at 1966-1968, the car mix will be different than on many, e= arlier layouts.  However, bear with me a moment.  The top of the 1= 967 list is:

Class 10/31/1967 Model manufacturer
H39 9886 Stewart
H39A 6060 Stewart?
H21A 5321 Bowser
G31A 4014
X29D 3631
H43B 2989 Bowser
X43B 2862
G36F 2729
X29B 2570
H35 1981
H43 1971 Bowser
G35 1892
G31B 1813
G34 1772
G36E 1697
H43A 1496 Bowser
X43C 1423
X43A 1406
G31F 1379
F30A 1243 Bowser

You'll notice that I've listed model manufacturers where I know them. =20= My conclusion is that (are you there, Elden?) gondolas just must not be comm= ercial.  Neither are X29 rebuilds, nor the X43 family.

The dearth of gons in HO is amazing -- the G31A is in the top 5 classes sinc= e 1955, and the only thing like it is Con Cor's Revell casting, done circa 1= 956.

Similarly, even with the opportunity to plaster "Don't Stand Me Still" all o= ver it, the X29D continues to be represented only by poor standins.

Does this stuff bother anybody else?  Or do the new BLI locomotives mak= e everything else irrelevant this year?


    = ;            &nb= sp;            Rick T= ipton - Louisville KY
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   Planning a new Panhandle Route in HO
(Pennsylvania RR Buckeye Div. 1966-1968)
            &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;   And Remembering PRR Lines West
--part1_1f0.157f8e8e.2d0e648f_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:44:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Major Classes of Pennsylvania Freight Cars Rick: The X43b and X43c are available from Branchline in the Blueprint series. The X43 and X43a as well as the X43b and c were available from C&BT Car shops. If you can find the original cars without the molded on details, you can make reasonable looking cars with third party ladders and grabs. Rich Orr --part1_ac.4d30d3cf.2d0e6be8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Rick:

The X43b and X43c are available from Branchline in the Blueprint series.&nbs= p; The X43 and X43a as well as the X43b and c were available from C&BT C= ar shops.  If you can find the original cars without the molded on deta= ils, you can make reasonable looking cars with third party ladders and grabs= .


Rich Orr --part1_ac.4d30d3cf.2d0e6be8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:53:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Major Classes of Pennsylvania Freight Cars From: Jamie Bothwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Similarly, even with the opportunity to plaster "Don't Stand Me Still" > all over it, the X29D continues to be represented only by poor > standins. > > Does this stuff bother anybody else? Rick, It doesn't faze me in the least! I model in S scale! Of the 20 cars on your list, we have available exactly 1. At least we hit the top of the list, and in plastic no less. We are still waiting for a decent X29! (You out there Bill? Will I have mine for Christmas?) My proposed layout has a projected passenger car need of 150 give or take. At this point I'll have to build over 100 of these. Would I change? Not for the world! I got into S to build! Jamie --Apple-Mail-2-804202616 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial Similarly, even with the opportunity to plaster "Don't Stand Me Still" all over it, the X29D continues to be represented only by poor standins. Does this stuff bother anybody else? Rick, It doesn't faze me in the least! I model in S scale! Of the 20 cars on your list, we have available exactly 1. At least we hit the top of the list, and in plastic no less. We are still waiting for a decent X29! (You out there Bill? Will I have mine for Christmas?) My proposed layout has a projected passenger car need of 150 give or take. At this point I'll have to build over 100 of these. Would I change? Not for the world! I got into S to build! Jamie --Apple-Mail-2-804202616-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "J. Smith" Subject: [PRR] P85br models Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 20:59:48 -0500 I am having trouble with my new P85br model shorting out our club's DCC. = With the truck being all metal and having close clearance between the = wheel flange and the brake rigging, you can see sparks and have shorts. = Is anyone else having this problem? Anyone know how to solve it? Jeff Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3C285.3577FA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
I am having trouble with my new P85br = model=20 shorting out our club's DCC.  With the truck being all metal and = having=20 close clearance between the wheel flange and the brake rigging, you can = see=20 sparks and have shorts.  Is anyone else having this problem?  = Anyone=20 know how to solve it?
 
Jeff Smith
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C3C285.3577FA00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Cc: "prr-talk" From: Jerry @ Pennsy Subject: Re: [PRR] P85br models Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:10:51 -0500 To: "J. Smith" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: On Dec 14, 2003, at 8:59 PM, J. Smith wrote: > I am having trouble with my new P85br model shorting out our club's=20 > DCC.=A0 With the truck being all metal and having close clearance=20 > between the wheel flange and the brake rigging, you can see sparks and=20= > have shorts.=A0 Is anyone else having this problem?=A0 Anyone know how = to=20 > solve it? This is the first I have heard of this problem. Is it more than one=20 car, or just one? What brand and size of track? I've run it on Atlas=20 Code 100, but haven't had an opportunity to try Code 83. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] P85br models Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:17:37 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Don't have the cars myself as they didn't run on trains 580, and 581 but on other cars with metal trucks I paint the offending truck parts (usually Black) to insulate them. Brian Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry @ Pennsy" To: "J. Smith" Cc: "prr-talk" Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] P85br models On Dec 14, 2003, at 8:59 PM, J. Smith wrote: > I am having trouble with my new P85br model shorting out our club's > DCC. With the truck being all metal and having close clearance > between the wheel flange and the brake rigging, you can see sparks and > have shorts. Is anyone else having this problem? Anyone know how to > solve it? This is the first I have heard of this problem. Is it more than one car, or just one? What brand and size of track? I've run it on Atlas Code 100, but haven't had an opportunity to try Code 83. > ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:38:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] P85br models Jeff, I have had the same problem with three of the trucks. Two had the side frame ends bent slightly inward causing a short to the wheels on the curves. The other was a brake shoe being bent towards the wheel, which also shorted only on the curves. In both cases the bends were removed with light pressure eliminating the shorting. I also used short sections of swizzle straws to take some of the slop out between the bolster and truck mounting screw. All running nicely now. The shorting came as a surprise as they operated flawlessly on 36" radius curves but intermittently shorted when 32" radius was encountered. Today I examined several before the hobby shop opened finding two trucks amongst ten cars having the side frame ends bent slightly inward and none having the brake shoe out of alignment. One of the cars I received by mail had a pieces of the diaphragm broken of but it was a clean break that glued back into place without out a sign that it was anything but whole. Now to mount a Kadee 58 or 78 coupler. Evan Leisey RCT&HS 346 PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036 CNJ -------------------------------1071459483 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Jeff,
 
   I have had the same problem with three of the tr= ucks.  Two had the side frame ends bent slightly inward causi= ng a short to the wheels on the curves.  The other was a brake sho= e being bent towards the wheel, which also shorted only on the curves. = In both cases the bends were removed with light pressure eliminating the sh= orting.   I also used short sections of swizzle straws to take som= e of the slop out between the bolster and truck mounting screw.  All ru= nning nicely now.  The shorting came as a surprise as they operate= d flawlessly on 36" radius curves but intermittently shorted when 32" radius= was encountered.
 
  Today I examined several before the hobby shop opened finding tw= o trucks amongst ten cars having the side frame ends bent slightly = ;inward and none having the brake shoe out of alignment.
 
  One of the cars I received by mail had a pieces of the diaphragm= broken of but it was a clean break that glued back into place without out a= sign that it was anything but whole.
 
  Now to mount a Kadee 58 or 78 coupler.

Evan Leisey
RCT&= ;HS 346
PRRT&HS (Phila.) 2036
CNJ
-------------------------------1071459483-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Frantz Subject: [PRR] Brick Interlocking Tower Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:45:08 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Gents, I'm starting to gather plans and things to do an interlocking diorama with the main focus being an Pennsy 8 to 20 Lever Machine like the one in the Jeff Scherb PSS book. I'm asking for an opinion on whether I should try to include the correct brick patterns or just use a sheet of bricks? At the same time, what would you prefer if it would be in a kit? Brick sheets or something else? I realise that not all tower had the ornate artistry done but i'd rather see what the Pennsy District of the RCA (Rivet Counters Anonymous) has to say. Also, because I am planning on having this for an upcoming convention. Thanks for any opinions, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Major Classes of Pennsylvania Freight Cars Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:40:13 -0500 Rick Tipton wrote: H39A 6060 Stewart? Quickest way to represent Class H39A from the Stewart H39 is to replace = the trucks with Bowser 2E-F2 Crown trucks. X29D 3631 Kitbash from Branchline #1500 or Front Range (R+3/4 late Improved = Dreadnaught ends) X43B 2862 Branchline #1608 (CK), 1609 (SK1b)=20 X29B 2570=20 Kitbash from Branchline #1600 or C&BT 10 panel 7 ft door kit H35 1981 Kitbash from 2 Stewart 14-panel triple hoppers (Teichmoeller, p 81)=20 X43C 1423 Branchline #1512 (CK), 1521 (SK1b)=20 X43A 1406 C&BT R+3/4 Improved Dreadnaught ends, 12 panel sides, 7 foot door, = Diagonal Panel roof kit, or modify Intermountain GN 12 panel boxcar = (#41098/99) to 7 ft door car. For both kits, modify sides to represent = welded seams by carefully removing rivets with #17 blade. =20 "You'll notice that I've listed model manufacturers where I know them. = My conclusion is that (are you there, Elden?) gondolas just must not be = commercial. Neither are X29 rebuilds, nor the X43 family." X43B and X43C are available now from Branchline, and the X29 rebuilds = are reasonable kitbashes from the Branchline kits. "The dearth of gons in HO is amazing -- the G31A is in the top 5 classes = since 1955, and the only thing like it is Con Cor's Revell casting, done = circa 1956." Gotta agree with you on the gons - even when we get one we need (Class = GS), most of us need to do more work to the car to make it acceptable. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01C3C29B.9ECF21C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Rick Tipton=20 wrote:
H39A 6060=20 Stewart?
Quickest way to=20 represent Class H39A from the Stewart H39 is to replace the trucks with = Bowser=20 2E-F2 Crown trucks.
 
X29D=20 3631
Kitbash from=20 Branchline #1500 or Front Range (R+3/4 late Improved Dreadnaught=20 ends)
 
X43B=20 2862
Branchline #1608=20 (CK), 1609 (SK1b) 
 
X29B 2570=20
Kitbash from Branchline #1600 or C&BT 10 panel 7 ft door=20 kit
 
H35=20 1981
Kitbash from 2=20 Stewart 14-panel triple hoppers (Teichmoeller, p = 81) 
 
X43C=20 1423
Branchline=20 #1512 (CK), 1521 (SK1b) 
 
X43A=20 1406
C&BT R+3/4=20 Improved Dreadnaught ends, 12 panel sides, 7 foot door, Diagonal Panel = roof kit,=20 or modify Intermountain GN 12 panel boxcar (#41098/99) to 7 ft door = car. =20 For both kits, modify sides to represent welded seams by carefully = removing=20 rivets with #17 blade.  
 
 
"You'll notice=20 that I've listed model manufacturers where I know them.  My = conclusion is=20 that (are you there, Elden?) gondolas just must not be commercial.  = Neither=20 are X29 rebuilds, nor the X43 family."
 
X43B and X43C are available now = from=20 Branchline, and the X29 rebuilds are reasonable kitbashes from the = Branchline=20 kits.
 

"The dearth of = gons in HO is=20 amazing -- the G31A is in the top 5 classes since 1955, and the only = thing like=20 it is Con Cor's Revell casting, done circa 1956."
Gotta agree with you on the gons - even when we get one we need = (Class=20 GS), most of us need to do more work to the car to make it=20 acceptable.
 
 
Ben Hom


------=_NextPart_000_009E_01C3C29B.9ECF21C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Viv Brice" Subject: [PRR] Odd E-8 (or EP22) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:46:26 +1100 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: G'day from sunny Down Under, Question 1: The following URL points to a picture of EP22 number 5898 and I'm intrigued as to when the picture was taken. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel31.html. The unit has the five stripe livery which indicates (early) 50's but has no trainphone antenna. Withers vol 7 shows it in 1956 and 1966 both times WITH trainphone. Further, the link shows the unit with a large number of nose grab irons and no side skirts around the fuel tank, both of which are present in the Withers 1966 photo but not the 1956 photo. I am therefore led to believe that the URL points to a restored unit - but its not one of Bennett's beautiful pair. Any information? Question 2: Should there or should there not be a dash (or hyphen) between EP and 22? Recent posts say not, but even the Withers books include a dash. Was there a standard for the 'standard railroad of the world' or is this another case of 'well, maybe ...'? Regards, Viv Brice An SPF from 'Down Under' PRRT&HS member #6781 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jconsoli" Subject: Re: [PRR] Odd E-8 (or EP22) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:01:44 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at paonline.com Sender: Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.7 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: List-Digest: List-Unsubscribe: Viv, Don't know or have the exact details handy, but #5898 was one of the two E8's that were restored and operated on the Blue Mountain and Reading RR in the late 1980's/early 1990's in excursion service. They have since gone elsewhere and I believe are still operating. The photo you referenced is copyrighted 1994 so it may be still on the BM&R or a later home. Thus, all the spotting features are those of late or post-PRR vintage: no trainphone, no skirts, modified mu-connections, new horn and other roof-top equipment. As far as the dashes or lack thereof in the PRR's diesel locomotive classes, in all the official, original PRR documents I have looked through, they seem to appear about half of the time, about half of the time they don't. So none of us should give anybody grief whether they use them or not. Jack Consoli ----- Original Message ----- From: Viv Brice To: PRR-Talk (E-mail) Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:46 PM Subject: [PRR] Odd E-8 (or EP22) > G'day from sunny Down Under, > Question 1: The following URL points to a picture of EP22 number 5898 and > I'm intrigued as to when the picture was taken. > http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel31.html. > The unit has the five stripe livery which indicates (early) 50's but has no > trainphone antenna. Withers vol 7 shows it in 1956 and 1966 both times WITH > trainphone. Further, the link shows the unit with a large number of nose > grab irons and no side skirts around the fuel tank, both of which are > present in the Withers 1966 photo but not the 1956 photo. > I am therefore led to believe that the URL points to a restored unit - but > its not one of Bennett's beautiful pair. Any information? > > Question 2: Should there or should there not be a dash (or hyphen) between > EP and 22? Recent posts say not, but even the Withers books include a dash. > Was there a standard for the 'standard railroad of the world' or is this > another case of 'well, maybe ...'? > > Regards, Viv Brice > An SPF from 'Down Under' > PRRT&HS member #6781 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:39:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Major Classes of Pennsylvania Freight Cars RickTipton@aol.com writes: > Since I'm aiming at 1966-1968, the car mix will be different from on many, > earlier layouts. However, bear with me a moment. The top of the 1967 list > is: > Okay can we reorganize this a bit to understand better which actual cars need to be produced... Hope you don't mind Rick just trying to see what we actually have here to present to a manufacturer... > Class 10/31/1967 Model manufacturer > H39 9886 Stewart _ _ _ _ _ H39A 6060 Stewart? Basically the same car and pretty well covered. H21A 5321 Bowser We've got that one covered G31A 4014 _ _ _ _ _ G31B 1813 _ _ _ _ _ G31F 1379 Actually there was a company that was going to bring out the welded version of the G31 but I am not sure what happened. I saw samples in Naperville two years ago and then nothing. It was going to be released by Dam Holbrock but I will have to contact him to see what went wrong. > X29D 3631 _ _ _ _ _ X29B 2570 Not quite the same car in all regards but close enough along the side sills to at least relate together. The underframe for both cars are different, the roof is different for each, the door is different. But a common underframe side sills and detail parts to match each prototype would actually do the trick. I think a resin casting might do the trick, not to find time to make a master for Dayna. > H43B 2989 Bowser _ _ _ _ _ _ H43A 1496 Bowser _ _ _ _ _ _ H43 > 1971 Bowser Fairly well covered... > X43B 2862 _ _ _ _ _ X43C 1423 _ _ _ _ _ X43A 1406 The X 43 and all sub classes are well covered with the Branchline Blueprint series cars. Excellent kits by the way. > G36F 2729 _ _ _ _ _ G36E 1697 Again this was another model that dan Holbrock wanted diagrams on so he could do them. There are significant numbers of car produced to earn a few buck for and manufacturer. > H35 1981 I would have to look closer at this car but I think it would be > a resin producer to convince. > > G35 1892 The G34 and the g 35 were n Dan's list as these were welded cars and he could reproduce this in laser cut acrylic and styrene as a kit real easy. I am not sure why the delay. > > G34 1772 > F30A 1243 Bowser Good progress by all in with this car ... I need some free time to complete mine. > You'll notice that I've listed model manufacturers where I know them. My > conclusion is that (are you there, Elden?) gondolas just must not be > commercial. Neither are X29 rebuilds, nor the X43 family. The X43 and subclasses are fairly well covered ... the X29 rebuilds are not but Richard Hendrickson were working on how the concept could work with a broader range of cars as some similarities exist for other roads which means more bang for the buck. Again a resin underframe seems to be the answer for the PRR and other roads. > > The dearth of gons in HO is amazing -- the G31A is in the top 5 classes > since 1955, and the only thing like it is Con Cor's Revell casting, done circa > 1956. The G31 ah the one car that we all need and in numbers... The Revell just doesn't make us happy any more... Damn! And too think the WP guys need them too... > Similarly, even with the opportunity to plaster "Don't Stand Me Still" all > over it, the X29D continues to be represented only by poor stand-ins. > > Does this stuff bother anybody else? Or do the new BLI locomotives make > everything else irrelevant this year? > > Rick Tipton - It does bother me and I am working on trying to cure some of this business and add other cars to the list at the same time like the H30/30a, which Jimmy Booth (ELL RIVER MODELS) will do for us, but he won't do them all. He is even more picky about details than I or most of all of you. Greg Martin --part1_176.23421931.2d0eb12f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" RickTipton@aol.com writes:


Since I'm aiming at 1966-1968,=20= the car mix will be different from on many, earlier layouts.  However,=20= bear with me a moment.  The top of the 1967 list is:


Okay can we re= organize this a bit to understand better which actual cars need to be produc= ed... Hope you don't mind Rick just trying to see what we actually have here= to present to a manufacturer...


Class   10/31/1967&nb= sp; Model manufacturer


H39 9886    Stew= art _ _ _ _ _ H39A    6060    Stewart?  <= /FONT>


Basically the=20= same car and pretty well covered.


H21A    5321&= nbsp;   Bowser

We've got that= one covered

G31A    4014=20= _ _ _ _ _  G31B    1813 _ _ _ _ _ G31F   = 1379    

Actually there= was a company that was going to bring out the welded version of the G31 but= I am not sure what happened.  I saw samples in Naperville two years ag= o and then nothing. It was going to be released by Dam Holbrock but I will h= ave to contact him to see what went wrong. 

X29D    3631 _  _ _ _ _ X29B  = ;  2570

Not quite the=20= same car in all regards but close enough along the side sills to at least re= late together. The underframe for both cars are different, the roof is diffe= rent for each, the door is different.  But a common underframe side sil= ls and detail parts to match each prototype would actually do the trick. I t= hink a resin casting might do the trick, not to find time to make a master f= or Dayna.
  
H43B    2989    Bowser _ _ _=20= _ _ _  H43A    1496    Bowser _ _ _ _ _ _= H43 1971    Bowser


Fairly well co= vered...

X43B    2862 _ _= _ _ _ X43C    1423  _ _ _ _ _ X43A    14= 06


The X 43 and a= ll sub classes are well covered with the Branchline Blueprint series cars. E= xcellent kits by the way.

G36F    2729 _ _ _ _ _  G36E  = ;  1697

Again this was= another model that dan Holbrock wanted diagrams on so he could do them. The= re are significant numbers of car produced to earn a few buck for and manufa= cturer.

H35 1981    I wo= uld have to look closer at this car but I think it would be a resin producer= to convince.

G35 1892


The G34 and th= e g 35 were n Dan's list as these were welded cars and he could reproduce th= is in laser cut acrylic and styrene as a kit real easy.  I am not sure why the delay.=
 
G34 1772


F30A    1243&nbs= p;   Bowser

Good progress=20= by all in with this car ... I need