From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:13:20 -0500 Bruce: Aside from the marketing opportunities, which I believe are adequate, what about erection drawings, painting and lettering schematics etc.? Does our group have sufficient resources to present a package to Bachman that they can use to design a loco? I don't think designing a diesel loco chassis, like the centipede's, to run on 18" R or even 15" R, would present too many mechanical problems. After all, there are existing Bachman 8 and 10 couple steam locos that can run on 15" R. (I'm not saying that they look good doing it, they just can) The question then is: "should we, as an organization, pursue this agenda?" I believe a project like this has more merit for our group than most of the projects that have been proposed. Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce F. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > >I would personally think that since Bachman has released a E44 electric > >model, maybe a centipede would not be out of the question. How many > >roads used the E44 and number of units compared to the centipede ? > > > >Ken Nesbitt > > Ken, > > The Botchman model is an E33, so the roads that had it are VIRGINIAN, > NORFOLK & WESTERN, NEW HAVEN, PENN CENTRAL, CONRAIL. Several of those > schemes are colorful "impulse buy" schemes. The E44 might slide in next, > as it did actually have as many road names (PRR, PC, CR, AMTRACK, NJT) and > some were colorful, but the PRR, PC and most of the CR units were dull, > dull, dull (in terms of color). The E44 could "stand in" for Muskingom > Electric Railway E50, but they had all of 2 units... > > As for the centipede... > On the minus side: > 1) Only 2 US railroads > 2) BIG loco (will it run on 18" min radius in HO?) > 3) Dull, dull, dull PRR paint (face it gang, PRR lcoos sell because lots of > people model the PRR, not because somebody decides that its a "pretty paint > scheme"...the Santa Fe sells because its pretty > > On the plus side: > 1) Unique loco - the "oddball" factor > 2) ACL scheme is pretty > 3) There are a LOT of PRR fans who would buy 2, or 4, or... > 4) You could do it in fantasy schemes (note that many manufacturers are > still happy to do this with cars, but far more reluctant to take the heat > over fake loco schemes....for example IM will introduce a number of bogus > schemes on their N-scale FGE reefer, but will likely stick to proto schemes > for the new diesels.) > > Hey, someday we might get lucky...after all LL did the DL-109...but I > should point out that a 2 unit set of BP60/BH50 locos from a company like > Broadway or LL will likely run close to $500. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:32:39 -0500 Bill: Don't wait too much longer, we all may be dead. :-) Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Volkmer" To: ; "'PRR-Talk'" ; Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > The trains mag article(you speak of)devoted to centipedes was published > in 1983. The Pennsy article was authored by myself, after D.P. Morgan > asked me via an annual postcard to write the article for over 18 years! > I had written the first version in one of the very first issues of X2200 > South, in 1962, and impressed him. He literally BEGGED me to rewrite > the article. > > I wanted to wait until most of the people on the PRR involved with the > Centipedes were dead before I wrote the article, lest I might offend > someone. > > WDV > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of > ndbprr@att.net > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:06 AM > To: PRR-Talk; VVA249@aol.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Centipedes > > > NdeM's were purchased new. Trains did an article on them many years ago > - > maybe 30. The NdeM nicknamed them, "the thousand feets" according to > the > Baldwin guy sent down there to break them in. Norm Bell > > In a message dated 1/29/03 9:00:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > mfreitas@sover.net writes: > > > > << PRR fans will buy in pairs, maybe one of each paint scheme? >> > > > > PRR fans should buy 2 at a time - Pennsy's were drawbar connected > > pairs, > > Seaboard's were single units > > (were they double ended?) and what of the NdeM's - were they bought > new or > > 2nd hand? > > > > Dick Ross > > Cleveland > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:35:14 -0500 I have experience with these locos traversing 16.5" R. Just go slow like the prototype did. Lew Matt. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "PRR-talk" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: [PRR] More on Bowser I1 > Hi, everyone, > > Thanks for your helpful suggestions. The majority view is to buy flanged > drivers from Bowser for #2 and 4. Can anyone tell me what the minimum radius > becomes for an engine modified this way? I have a 4-track main line and I > think there is one place with a minimum of 22" on the inside track. Your > thoughts? > > George Pierson > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] T1 single motor (was CENTIPEDE and More!) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:14:51 -0500 I had a single motor (zinc? lead?) T1 that I used to run on a layout with 1.5% grades and fairly sharp curves. It pulled 10 American Beauty cars with full interiors, very well. It did well with those Athearn metal box cars too. It used The older, smaller Pittman motor, than they use now. I forget the number. I don't remember what the amperage draw was, but it was high. There was a rubber (surgical?) tube, in lieu of a universal joint, to transmit power to the front worm and gear assembly, from the rear worm and motor shaft. Each chassis had a worm on a shaft over idler over wheel gear, the rear assembly was on the motor shaft. It ran very well until the rubber tube needed replacing, the tubes would get hard and break from the lubricating oil (3 in one). When the tube stiffened up, the front drivers wouldn't track through turnouts or sharp curves. Used to replace tubes about twice a year. A friend who was a machinist and made this power train for me. When the kids were small, it mysteriously took a dive out the third floor train room window one day onto the sidewalk and the castings broke. Somehow a 2x4 and Tru-Track sections were laid from a siding off the main, right across the aisle and out the window far enough to clear the rain gutter. Thank God no one was under it when it landed, it weighed a ton! To this day, no one knows anything about it. Nobody was in the house that day either. I traded the parts for some other goodies. Lew Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "PennsyNut" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE and More! > Hi All. IMHO! > > I would only disagree with one point. Life Like Proto 1000 has already done > some locos with what looks like good success. So why limit to LLP 2000? If > the DL109 can sell, so should the Centipede. Another choice would be > Botchman, but I'm not sure they can do it right, so I agree there. I have > no experience with Roco. The only reason I bring this up is cost. LLP1 > would be far cheaper than LLP2, Athearn Genesis, or BLI. > > As for dual engined, why? With all those wheels? And with proper > weighting? In the "real" modeling world, what difference does a 6,000 hp > engine have with the normal 3,500 hp or so? Either one on a model layout > would probably be able to pull more cars than "most" layouts can > accommodate. I saw an Atlas RS2 or 3 pull more cars than we cared to > imagine. Ditto for lots of other current diesel models. And as for steam, > that's why there's Bowser! LOL And although I've not seen one, has anyone > ever built a single motored T1? Does it pull? And if the model requires 2 > motors, is it because there are 2 sets of drivers? Can't one motor be > linked through both sets of drivers? > > A final IMHO - for those who don't like cast on grabs, etc. (as in LLP1), go > ahead and cut them off, etc. That's what "modeling" is all about. And at > $40 or so, what do you expect? I am satisfied with my C-Liner. The only > real complaint I have with any and all manufacturers is the DGLE. Athearn > Genesis is about as close as I think we can expect. (On mass produced, > non-brass). > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Britton" > To: "PGrace" ; "Lewis J. Matt PhD" ; > "Bruce Smith" > Cc: "PRR-Talk LIST" > Sent: Thursday, 30 January, 2003 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] CENTIPEDE > > > > On 1/30/03 12:52 PM, PGrace (pgrace@aspects.net) wrote: > > > > > If Bachmann / Life Like are not interested we could try someone like > > > Roco.... > > > > > I wouldn't waste time with Bachmann or Roco. If you're going to take the > > time to do this model, which would likely only ever be produced once, do > it > > right. > > > > I think it would have to be one of > > > > Athearn Genesis > > Life Like Proto 2000 > > Broadway Limited Imports > > > > I don't think Atlas or Kato would touch it, and am very doubtful about > > Athearn and Life Like. Given the limited appeal, I'd bet the only > practical > > route would be BLI...at about $500 per loco. Done right, it would be worth > > it. > > > > Remember, these were HUGE locos. In model railroad terms, each loco would > > really have two engines. So an A-A set would be like four locomotives. The > > real A-A units were 6000 hp, the same as an ABBA set of E7's. > > > > So you'd have a dual engine locomotive, with sound and DCC, for $500 > retail. > > A pair of "normal" locos with widespread appeal would retail for around > > $300. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:36:56 -0500 Hey! I'd love to eat prime rib at the Willows again, have a rocky road sundae at Joe Myers, go to Oktoberfest at the Guernsey barn and then drive down 30 East and watch the electric trains go by......... Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne S. Betty" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Altoona/Strasburg/Mount Union (long) > Howdy List: > Just my two cents worth - > I don't think the SRR would be too excited about having a K4s running on > it's rail anytime soon. > With a driving axel load close to 34 tons - yea the 7002 was 30 tons, the > current SRR motive power is all under 20 tons on drivers. > Just imagine the additional track maintenance that occurs with that extra 14 > plus tons. > And do you really want to watch it backing up half the time? > > Just for grins - an SD80MAC has an axel load of 35 tons. > > I was growing up in Strasburg in the '60s - I remember the big engines > coming to town. > I remember the increase in traffic at the east end of town and my parents > telling me to be extra careful crossing the busy Main Street to get to the > school bus stop. The other thing I remember is the new macadam pavement - > laid down by McMinns in either '65 or '66. > I'm not sure that the SRR could have grown and prospered the way it has > without the RmofPA coming to town. > Just think, we could still have The Willows and Joe Myers Restaurants, the > Guernsey barn would still be hosting special events and the Congress Inn > would be all by itself on the Lincoln Highway East. > Altoona could have Horseshoe Square and a tourist industry that would be > bringing it millions of dollars each year. > Or maybe the PHMC saw the potential draw of the Amish, the SRR and a museum > so close to Phila, New York and Baltimore. > > While the Centipede would be a lot of fun - how about something more useful > like a nice Alco C636. > > > Cos > Wayne S. Betty > Cos Communications, Inc. > Small business IT services. > > Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road > NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 > NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 > http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm > at the west end of the PRR electrified zone > > > The Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission deliberated and, by a > margin of *one vote*, chose Strasburg as the site for the state museum. > The nature and result of that process was controversial then and has > remained so ever since. In the context of state railroad history, > neither Strasburg nor Lancaster County generally has ever been known as > a railroad center -- one would never think of either in the same > category as, say, Reading, Altoona, Sayre, McKees Rocks, Harrisburg, > Enola, Pitcairn, Conway, DuBois, Greenville, Renovo, Eddystone, or even > Scranton -- i.e., no major yards or shops, no major passenger > facilities, no landmark-status fixtures or facilities, and comparatively > speaking, no major railroad employment base. Think of the final > selection as the equivalent of placing the Pennsylvania Farm Museum in > downtown Erie (except that that was placed in Lancaster County, too, > where it logically fits the heritage, geography, culture, and pattern of > land use). > > PHMC wanted to place the museum *next to* an operating steam railroad > but didn't want to get into the cost and technical involvement of > mounting and running a steam program. From PHMC's standpoint, this was > one of the biggest strikes against Altoona -- no steam and no prospect > of steam. One of the strongest arguments for Strasburg was the > double-pronged existence of the Strasburg Rail Road and the > Penn-Dutch/Amish Country tourism base that was situated within easy > driving distance of Philadelphia and the East Coast. This would, they > reasoned, guarantee a built-in flow of paying customers through any > museum that might be placed there, thus reducing the subsidy that the > state would have to fork out. > > > History happens where it happens, not where we would like it to happen > for external reasons. Would we build a Battle of Gettysburg museum in > York because the latter is on an Interstate and the former is not? With > that said, when I go to the RMPa in Strasburg to do research in the > library or archives, there's absolutely no reason why that experience > would be any more productive or successful if it were in Altoona. At > this remove, there's no point to re-fighting the battle. We can only > imagine what might have happened had PRR offered, and PHMC accepted, the > East Altoona Enginehouse. > > Dan Cupper > Harrisburg, Pa. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:02:03 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Items for Sale --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the=20 above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp. PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85 PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20 PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a front view, a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru 8 tracks= =20 wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11 $25=20 PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to=20 Slope, Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14 $25 =20 PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & inclines= , New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen. $9 PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper $2 PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6 PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400 PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6 PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5 PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,=20 =A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35 PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5 PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5 PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5 PRR Annual Report-1930 $30 PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25 PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12 PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15 PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50 =A0=20 PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s $25 PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20 style= =3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents, =A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk=20 PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5 PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30 PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18 PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12 PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5 PC POST employee magizine,various issues but not all $4 PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16 PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section=20 =A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20=20 PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40 PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40 CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40 CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & logo= =A0=20 $40 CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2 reg style=A0 $15 ea. CR Annual Report-1987=A0 $12 CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo but other wise excellent.=A0 $30 Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heavy=A0 $40= =A0=20 Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0=20 $55pr EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $15 Thank you. Pat McKinney --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List
=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have the following items for sale. Please contact OFF list wi= th the above subject with questions. Prices DO NOT incl shp.


PRR CT 1000C May,1945-Very good cond,slight wear on bottom spine and cover =A0 corners from shelf wear=A0=A0 $ 85
PRR Loco Test Plant Book No.21 for Class E6=A0 $20=
PRR Station Plan Book,Copy of 1907 book,71 stations E. of Pgh, a fron= t view,
  a cross sect. view & shows location, 8 towers, sig bridges-2 thru= 8 tracks
  wide. 90 pgs, 8-1/2 x11  $25
PRR Middle Division Interlocking Plants, Copy of 1914-1917 plans,Banks to Sl= ope,
  Hollidaysburg Br,Morison Cove Br, 50 pgs,8-1/2 x 14   $25 
PRR Map of 1881 MainLine from Alt. to Johnstown,Alleg. Portage RR & incl= ines,
  New Portage Br,Blue print copied from original linen.  $9
PRR Mine Card & Revenue Waybill,has 3 copies with carbon paper  $2
PRR Pocket calenders-1957 & 1960=A0 $ 6
PRR Land Book of 1890 for South West Pennsylvania RailWay=A0 $400
PRR CT1515 Qualification Card-New,never issued=A0 $6<= /B>
PRR MW200 Machinery Qualification Card- New,never issued=A0 $5
PRR MW52(D) Manual of Instructions for MW Equip. NO COVER,
=A0=A0 dated 1-1-60,very good cond.=A0 $35
PRR Demurrage Card-pad, unused=A0 $5
PRR Application for Position-Pad of 100 unused,for bidding on jobs=A0 $5
PRR Deposit Slip book-Pad,unused=A0 $5
PRR Annual Report-1930 $3= 0
PRR Annual Report-1945=A0 $25
PRR Annual Reports-1953,58=A0 $12
PRR Annual Reports-1952,55,59,60,61,62=A0 $15
PRR 1st Annual Report 1848 (1894 reprint)Front cover loose,pages brittle=A0=20= $50=A0
PRR Middle Div ETT No.14, 4-25-49,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s = $25
PRR Middle Div ETT No.17, 4-29-51,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s  $25
PRR Cent. Reg.ETT No.4, 10-27-67,Good used cond,has all G.O.'s=A0 $20
PRR Storage stamps for baggage-full book of 100 - 5 cents, 35 cents,
=A0 75 cents=A0 $10 ea.bk =
PRR Leather Conductors wallet (well used)name still visible $5
PRR 25 year Bronze service pin=A0 $30
PC Leather conductors Wallet-Good cond=A0 $18
PC CT-225-G Haz. Mtl. Reg-plastic cover,good cond=A0 $12
PC 1969 Annual Report-Fair cond-water mark=A0 $5
PC POST employee magizin= e,various issues but not all  $4
PC MW1-New Unused=A0 $ 16=
PC MW4-Used but excellent cond,field notes on some pages,1section
=A0 for inspection,1 section for construction=A0=A0 $20
PC Conductor & Trainman Hat Badges=A0=A0 $40<= BR> PC Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0 $40=
CR Lapel pins for Cond. & Trainman uniform=A0=A0 $40
CR First Aid Kit-New,unused,Large square metal case with red Conrail & l= ogo=A0 $40
CR Hardhat-MW-New,unused,1 safari style=A0 $18, 2= reg style=A0 $15 = ea.
CR Annual Report-1987=A0 = $12
CR MW-4,NEW,never used,has a couple of small rub marks across logo
   but other wise excellent.=A0 $30
Pullman Brass Car Door handles-From Heavyweight PRR Sleepers,old former camp=
   cars,some dinges and dents mostly to door knob,latch moves,heav= y=A0 $40=A0
Great Northern Atlas N scale FA1 (2 units)-older stock,not run,tested only= =A0 $55pr
EL ETT #4=A0 2-24-74=A0 $= 15

Thank you.
Pat McKinney




 --part1_1da.3ff18cb.2b9198cb_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:36:10 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:29:35 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. R50b has no end doors...HELP! Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:09:26 -0500 For anybody that is interested...... Link to the scanned drawings of Hank Mummert's Bowser K5. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/samstrainphotos.msnw?Page=Last The parts list I will be putting into Word If anybody wants a copy of that e-mail me directly and I will send it to you. Sam Vastano >From: "Tammra Link" >To: >Subject: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:06:11 -0800 > >Mr. Vastano, > If Mr. Mummert would allow it, I would appreciate that list, as I >have been doing a Bowser building frenzy, concentrating on "modernizing >L-1s Mikados. I would like to model a K-5 for my Crestline, OH based >forthcoming PRR layout. Thank You, Also, Bowser parts are available >cheaper from listmember Frank Brua of Parkvarieties than direct from >Bowser. I have dealt with him on several occasions with exceptional >results. > >Matt Link >PRR T&HS # 7140 >Vice President, The Crestline Roundhouse Preservation Society >(www.crestlineroundhouse.org) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:05:51 -0500 I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I too would like to know the function of the buffers. As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, fully extended, configuration. If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "James L. McDaniel" To: "Chany, Christopher" Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:29 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > In an earlier discussion, there was mention of "buffers" on these cars. > I assume --always dangerous- that the buffer is the rounded area > projecting out above the coupler...which shows in some photos and plans. > > What is the purpose for this. I know passenger cars with end doors have > them as part of the "floor" in the diaphragm area passages between cars. > > R50b has no end doors...HELP! > > Jim McDaniel, lost in Delmarva where R50bs were used for shipping > seafood and dead ducks to folks in Philly and Neow Yark! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer In a message dated 3/1/03 9:07:28 AM Central Standard Time, frea@insight.rr.com writes: << I too would like to know the function of the buffers. >> How about an early form of car cushioning? Keep the eggs from breaking. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Strasburg stuff: Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:38:07 -0500 Had a chance to get by the SRR today. The ND cabin is now out by J tower in the new coach yard. The Lancaster Chapter is getting ready to paint J tower again - it still looks better then it did in it's last years at Lemoyne. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrnd.jpg http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/prrjtower.jpg The shop forces have applied Number 31's original CN number plate. http://www.wsbcos.com/srr/7312c.jpg More changes coming to SRR soon too! Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:37 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi list members, The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. - Claus > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > fully extended, configuration. > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] QClass Duplex --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Did the Q class duplex ever run over eastern Panhandle rails, i.e., Pittsburgh to Mingo, or only on the Ft. Wayne, Conway and west?  Thanks.  Ron


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-684282833-1046541076=:92499-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] 6 men in Indiana In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:46:09 EST Subject: [PRR] 6 men in Indiana --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST > > In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time, > bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes: > > << Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind the > engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the > days before radios). >> > > Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough > Indiana > spfs to answer it here. What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?) on > both headend and rearend? Locals only? Dates in effect? > > Bob Zoeller > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train? > From: "Randy Williamson" > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600 > > --=====================_164931919==.ALT > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Bob, > > If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars > their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew. > > Randy IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exotica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the engine. I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like this go well into the diesel era. Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC) trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the rear. BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also required an extra man under some conditions. Can anyone elaborate? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 12:05:18 AM Eastern Standard= Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes:


Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on fr= ont or back of train?
From: <Bobspf@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:06:27 EST

In a message dated 2/28/03 10:59:31 AM Central Standard Time,
bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com writes:

<< Locals around Chicago and other places always put the cabin behind=20= the
engine so that the crew could easily converse with one another (in the
days before radios). >>

Was gonna ask this on Pennsy West list, but there are probably enough Indian= a
spfs to answer it here.  What was the Indiana rule for cabins (crews?)=20= on
both headend and rearend?  Locals only?  Dates in effect?

Bob Zoeller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabins on front or back of train?
From: "Randy Williamson" <pennsy@vbe.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:08:55 -0600

--=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_164931919= =3D=3D.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed

Bob,

If my memory serves me correctly the law was if the train was over 69 cars <= BR> their had to be a swing brakeman added to the crew.

Randy


IIRC that was Indiana law, requiring the 6th man -- which generated such exo= tica as Monon's rider cars, which were often photographed right behind the e= ngine.  I don't know what era the law was rescinded, but pictures like=20= this go well into the diesel era.

Unfortunately, I'm still looking for pix that show PRR (or B&O, or NYC)=20= trains in Indiana with a cabin cut in behind the tender or diesel consist. I= have no knowledge of whether they carried 4 men in the engine, or 3 on the=20= rear.

BTW, saw a recent post that indicated New York state law may have also requi= red an extra man under some conditions.  Can anyone elaborate?

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_50.18f4a13c.2b926801_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:45:57 EST Subject: [PRR] 4-digit N5's for M&E trains --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service: Railway > Express Agency". > > Dominic Mazoch One email claimed that the 1945 roster was N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 5032) with 2A-F5 trucks However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034. > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600 > From: Dominic M Mazoch > Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains > > The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins. > > Dominic Mazoch > I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue? BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was cancelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" lettering. I believe I've actually seen some in Futura. What I don't remember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obviously the cars existed well into the PK period. I'm also surprised that Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" letterings. Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's. But they're an interesting handful. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/1/03 4:55:53 AM Eastern Standard=20= Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:15:53 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

Some of the 5xxx cabins also were maked "For Passenger Service:  Railwa= y
Express Agency".

Dominic Mazoch
<= BR>
One email claimed that the 1= 945 roster was

N5 Crew Express Cars 5001, 5010, 5011, 5012, 5013, 5015, 5018 (and up to 503= 2) with 2A-F5 trucks

However, the December 1965 ORPTE (Official Register of Passenger Train Equip= ment) lists car numbers from 5001 to 5034.



________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:40:35 -0600
   From: Dominic M Mazoch <domemt@juno.com>
Subject: Passenger Cabins on Mail & Express trains

The KEYSTONE had an article about these cabins.

Dominic Mazoch

I've missed indexing that article -- anybody know which issue?

BTW, I've seen pix of these N5's in NK4 paint (remember, the CK phase was ca= ncelled for these cars) and with the extra "Railway Express Agency" letterin= g.  I believe I've actually seen some in Futura.  What I don't rem= ember seeing is N5's in SK1b or PK with the extra lettering -- and yet, obvi= ously the cars existed well into the PK period.  I'm also surprised tha= t Bowser hasn't released their N5 kit in one or more of these "passenger" le= tterings.

Of course, we're talking about a handful of cabins in a sea of 600-odd N5's.=   But they're an interesting handful.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_41.2bc8edd4.2b9267f5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:09:22 -0500 Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact with the next car. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claus Schlund" To: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Hi list members, > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > - Claus > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. I > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub on > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their no-load, > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped car? > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's Sodus Point pier. My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! Good to see the coverage. Haven't read the article yet, but will in a moment. BTW, a few years ago I purchased on eBay the valuation maps for the area. Shows not only the pier trackage and the trackage around the malt house, but also the harbor itself, complete with channel markers! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 13:36:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1738328278-1046554607=:30169-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:15:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement From: aurora7@juno.com I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." And now, back to our regular program. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over three times." _Sam Levenson ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:48:58 -0500 GROAN!! I can see cabin fever is setting in. Next thing you know it'll be mud season up here. What will that bring? Wasn't this a thread a few months ago?? Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > I'm sorry to lower the group, but I can't resist... > > The first thing I thought of when I read the subject header was, "Oh > yeah, I've had one of those. Thought I passed a locomotive....." > > And now, back to our regular program. > > Richard Glueck > Peace of the Planet Farm > Winterport, Maine > > "Life begins at 40, but so does arthritus and telling the same story over > three times." _Sam Levenson > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:01:13 -0800 From: Ken Douglas Subject: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Baldwins were delivered directly since the PRR served the plant on-line. They may have been set up by the BLW/BLH service engineer either at Philly or their in service location. I witnessed the EMD service engineer set up three GP30 units at 59th Street in Chicago. They had been shipped dead to Colhour Yard in Indiana for turning over the PRR. This was to avoid Illinois taxes. Alcos were shipped down dead from Schenectady, often by the D&H at Buttonwood yard in Wilkes-Barre. I do not know if they were set up where they were given to the PRR. I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:14:57 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Hi Fred, You asked: > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably has only very light spring action. The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has a strong spring action. The only thing they have in common is they are both on the end of the car. As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent passenger > car? I doubt those were sprung for drawbar forces, just to maintain contact > with the next car. > > Fred > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi list members, > > > > The buffers are intended to keep the coupler slack stretched > > in a passenger train. This prevents a rough ride for the > > passengers in the other cars of the train - you don't have the > > "slam" effect of the slack running in and out. > > > > - Claus > > > > > > > > > I am the guy that raised the issue of the coupler spacing on these cars. > I > > > too would like to know the function of the buffers. > > > > > > As I remember they were two plates, like the floor of a diaphragm. One > > > plate attached to the car, the sprung and other with a face plate to rub > on > > > the opposing car. I think that Walthers has modeled them in their > no-load, > > > fully extended, configuration. > > > > > > If coupled to a similar car, one with a diaphragm, one could walk across > > > them. But, on the R50b you would hit a dead end. > > > > > > Could they have been for safety when coupled to a diaphragm equipped > car? > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GFPat420@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:12:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Buffers and diaphrams I don't want to start a revolution, but my understanding of the buffer is to provide the walkway, as in from one car to the other. The diaphragms provide the sides and top cover of the walk way, in effect. The older style was canvas diaphragms with a metal plate. Some commuter properties use rubber tubes. Amfleet cars had a kind of foam-filled rubber-covered affair, with a composition (Gatke) facing. At any rate, the buffer springs are nothing, compared to the draft gear. Tight lock couplers minimize slack action between cars. George in Baltimore ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:19:56 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer The NY Central Hudson tenders had buffers over their couplers. Steve Bartlett Claus Schlund wrote: ....... As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't have a diaphragm! - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:57:41 -0500 >> >> Snip >> I do not know how the FM or GE units went to the PRR. Of course the units built at Erie could have been shipped to the PRR via the NYC. Ken Douglas The units built at Erie were delivered to the PRR at Erie. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 23:19:29 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: New Locomotives Garry's right about the GE units being delivered to the PRR at Erie. The GE's East Erie Commercial RR had a direct connection to the PRR via the P&E's 10th Street Branch. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Rea" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 01:44:43 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Rea" To: "Claus Schlund" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? > > Fred > > PS They still still seem way too long on the Walthers cars. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Claus Schlund" > To: "Fred Rea" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Ree fer > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > You asked: > > > > > Sounds reasonable. But, do they touch the diaphragm of an adjacent > passenger > > > car? > > > > No, the buffer does not touch the diaphragm of > > the next car. The buffer touches the buffer of the next car. > > > > You are confusing the diaphragm with the buffer. > > > > The diaphragm and the buffer are not the same thing. > > > > The diaphragm is what passengers walk thru. It probably > > has only very light spring action. > > > > The buffer is what keeps the slack stretched. It has > > a strong spring action. > > > > The only thing they have in common is they are > > both on the end of the car. > > > > As the R50b shows, you can have a buffer even if you don't > > have a diaphragm! > > > > - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:00:10 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR R50bExpress Reefer Hi Fred, > Are you saying there are buffers that do keep the slack out on passenger > cars? Correct. > Never realized that. I appreciate the correction. I always assumed > what was under my feet as I passed between cars was just a walk way, and the > tight lock couplers reduced the slack action. > > Did cars like passenger service X29s have them too? No, the X29 fleet did not have them. I will mention that the X29 fleet was not liked by some shippers and railroads (other than the PRR of course) because they had a reputation for being rough-riding. The lack of buffers may have contributed to this. While not universal, milk cars almost always had buffers just like the R50b did. I don't know for sure about REA express reefers. In N scale, "Details by Eric" makes a buffer as a detail part. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:59:13 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABOOSE HANDRAIL PAINTING PRR TALK, Can anyone tell me when the PRR started to paint the hand-rails & grab-irons YELLOW on their N-5b cabins? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 07:42:09 EST Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc.  as the successor to PRR Arrange= d Freight Schedules.  I know that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in the C= onrail era).

However, I lack documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned letters PX?  Context says it's in the= Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH (Coleh= our), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yar= d), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW= Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC= Clearing Yard).

2.  in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because Conrail n= ormally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the Chicago area=20= -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing the Big Split= between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via Pittsburgh and Harrisbu= rg to be made right there.  Thus, trains dispatched from the Chicago ar= ea and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_9c.2e7ec995.2b935621_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:27:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to the right of the express reefer. Anyone have info. on this box car? Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading= . 

Note in the one shot of the "B50B" (actually R50B) the "Altoona" box car to= the right of the express reefer.  Anyone have info. on this box car?
Evan Leisey --part1_ac.3aafeb7b.2b9360bc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 & K5 Differences Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 08:51:46 -0500 Posted the parts list to my website for anyone to down load. Here is the link. http://groups.msn.com/Samstoys/files.msnw Sam Vastano _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 06:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Union Transportation Co., next question --- AHARTPRR137@aol.com wrote: > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > > How long after 1956 did the U. T. Co. continue to > > exist? Does it still exist? > > The last run was made on March 31, 1977 [...] U. T. Co. officially > dissolved on May 23, 1981. Can anyone say why the U. T. Co. was incorporated. The ICC report seems to say that it came into being for the express purpose of leasing and operating the Pemberton Branch of the P&A. That seems to me to be backwards. Big company leases little company's property seems to be the usual course. So, what was the reason for leasing the branch and operating it as a separate entity? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:34:08 -0500 Back in mid-January there was a thread discussing an unidentified head end car shown (near Cove, I believe) in one of the many PRR videos. Seems we collectively decided it was a MoPac car based on the apparent blue/white paint scheme and that it was very similar looking to a B60b. I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. It is clearly (to my eye) a MoPac car. It appears to look very similar to a B60b. It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. I can see that the doors have square windows. Now to research the MoPac to see what kind of car this is. Jerry Breon Birdsboro, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger car photos Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:38:26 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan: I don't think I'm getting all the emails. =20 Where is this "Passenger car heading ??? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: [PRR] Passenger car photos Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car heading. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan:  I don't = think I'm getting=20 all the emails. 
 
Where is this = "Passenger car heading=20 ???
 
All the best to you and yours      =20 Weldon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 8:27=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Passenger car = photos

Check out the goodies under the PASSENGER car=20 heading. 

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C2E0B0.3D6832A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:00:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Breon" I was just watching Herron's Pennsylvania Glory Volume 2 and about > midway through the tape on the last shot in Altoona (just before the > Horseshoe Curve segment) is a fairly clear shot of one of these cars sitting on a siding just behind the L1 being featured in the shot. Sorry, it's an I1sa rather than an L1 being featured. My mistake. Jerry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Panza" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:26:14 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at = that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the = train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the = volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on = what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail = Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or = CG-2? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RickTipton@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Gentlemen, I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR = Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used=20 xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ=20 xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in = the Conrail era). However, I lack documentation that tells me: 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in = the Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH = (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF = Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW = Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF = Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because = Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the = Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains = dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something special... Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I remember the PXEN passing through = Altoona in the=20 late afternoon and at that time there was a mechanic from Merchants = Despatch who=20 monitored the train.  The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable=20 Express.  With the volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it = originated at=20 Proviso Yard on what was then C&NW.  Does anyone have a copy of = the=20 book "Conrail Commodities" that can confirm this?  Was this the = stepchild=20 of CG-8 or CG-2?
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RickTipton@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 6:42=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and = PXPI=20 (Arranged Freight Schedules)

Gentlemen,

I keep seeing references to = PXEN,=20 etc.  as the successor to PRR Arranged Freight Schedules.  I = know=20 that Conrail used
xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard
xxCA = for=20 trains destined to Camden NJ
xxPI for trains destined to = Pittsburgh (but=20 specifically for Conway in the Conrail era).

However, I lack=20 documentation that tells me:
1. what origin point was assigned = letters=20 PX?  Context says it's in the Chicago area, where other origin = yards=20 included FN (59th Street), CH (Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the = Chicago=20 Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF = (55th=20 Street), MI (MILW Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South = Chicago), SF=20 (ATSF Streator Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard).

2.  = in what=20 period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run?

The answers to these questions are particulary = interesting=20 because Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic = from=20 the Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", = allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines = via=20 Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there.  Thus, trains=20 dispatched from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be = something=20 special...



Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the = Pennsylvania=20 Railroad and especially PRR Lines West = ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C2E0B6.EA8D3E70-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron Ronald Di Orio wrote:How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc.  For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron

 

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> wrote:

How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-181512674-1046634982=:91049-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kevin Trichtinger" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:18:02 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. Peace Kevin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:03:07 -0500 I heard that some larger locomotives were routed over the PRR's Philadelphia & Erie branch to avoid tight curves & tunnels on the main line. Does anyone have more info about that? --- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Trichtinger" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 14:56 > Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement > > > > > > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, > but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I > was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. > For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how > did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron > > In Worley & Poellot's book on the Pittsburgh & West Virginia, they note that > the P&WV Baldwin J Class 2-6-6-4s were run under their own power on the PRR > to be delivered to the P&WV. It doesn't say whether they were interchanged > at Clairton or Bridgeville, but I suspect the former. Nor does it say > whether they hauled any Pennsy freight during the delivery runs. > > Peace > Kevin > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:14:30 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron & List, As has been mentioned by others, steam power was occasionally deliverted = under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the History of the = RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P 4-8-4's being = delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from Baldwin at = Eddystone to Potomac Yard. OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of SP Cab Forwards = indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the way to El = Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed up. With Diesels, a great deal depends on the ralationship of the owning = railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of = locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use = three GP15-T's bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling = them dead in tow and charging us, saying they were not suitable power = for Chicago-Florida trains.. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronald Di Orio=20 To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR Talk=20 Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. = What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by = Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or = SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron=20 =20 Ronald Di Orio wrote:=20 How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically = of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco = that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they = were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled = together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single = locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives = moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and = transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling = a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ron & List,
 
As has been mentioned by others, steam power was = occasionally=20 deliverted under power. In addition to the P&WV locos mentioned, the = History=20 of the RF&P, issued by that road, shows photographs of the RF&P = 4-8-4's=20 being delivered by the PRR (and B&O) under their own steam from = Baldwin at=20 Eddystone to Potomac Yard.
 
OTOH, an article in "Trains" described delivery of = SP Cab=20 Forwards indicating they were hauled dead-in-tow from Eddystone all the = way to=20 El Paso, TX, before the main rods were attached and they were steamed=20 up.
 
With Diesels, a great deal depends on the = ralationship of the=20 owning railroad with the railroad serving the manufacturer, the type of=20 locomotive (are crews familiar with it?), and the need for additional = power as=20 opposed to additional revenue. I once tried to get CSXT to use three = GP15-T's=20 bought from EMD in 1983, but they insisted on hauling them dead in tow = and=20 charging us, saying they were not suitable power for Chicago-Florida=20 trains..
 
Gregg Mahlkov
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ronald = Di Orio=20
To: Ronald Di Orio ; PRR = Talk
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 = 2:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] New = Locomotive=20 movement

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but=20 I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  = What I was=20 talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, = etc. =20 For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, = how did=20 it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron=20

=20

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> = wrote:=20 How=20 did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to=20 their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all = the=20 locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would = appear=20 to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were = eventually=20 going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and = hauled=20 off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single = locomotives,=20 or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were = locomotives moved=20 complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at=20 destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and=20 transported under their own power, either as individual units or = pulling a=20 train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron =20


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Yahoo!=20 Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and = more ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C2E0E7.91A0D8E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jedalberg@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:06:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) The PXEN/PXSE originated at Blue Island on the IHB. I was working at Enola in '78, and the PXEN would arrive in the late evening / early am and would have to be humped immediatelly, as there were usually 5-7 reefers to make the ENPG; which if I recall left about 6am. Reefers were for the Phila Produce Market. The cars would naturally be spread throughout the train, so you couldn't just swing a block (also naturally) to the outbound. As time went on the train became less (and less) reliable--hey, if we just hold it for 20min (always takes at least an hour!) at X, we can add these empty hoppers--and it became another junk freight. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:24:12 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I Ron, I plan to model soem of these movements with Dead in tow locos. There are a number of pictures of Baldwin products on Manor Siding in Columbia. They were dropped there as it was an excellent place for a Baldwin rep to have access to check out the bearings to make sure that they weren't overheating (Eddystone-Perryville, onto the C&PD - Columbia - onto the A&S to Enola and points west. My guess is that the majority of deliveries were hauled dead, as running live would have required a Baldwin engineers to run the loco (since the PRR engineer wasn't qualified) and a PRR engineer to be the "guide" since the Balwindman was qualified on that section of the railroad... In the photos I've seen, the rods are off, the stacks covered and the headlights, and sometime windows are covered with wood. Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:25:51 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac head end car In a message dated 3/2/03 9:40:46 AM Central Standard Time, jbreon@email.msn.com writes: << It also has what appear to be narrow vertical black stripes the length of the car, but they could be shadows. >> Are you sure the cars are only 60 feet? They may have used both 60 and 70 footers. In any case there were several types and I too have seen some with the "vertical black stripes". I don't know if those are heavy rivet lines or plated over windows in a coach or other car converted to baggage and express service. There is a picture in Trackside around Chicago which seems to really look like they are plated over windows. One car even looks like it has an old vestibule plated over. I agree we need to get the MOP guys to chime in. And there is the complication of any differences with same paint job Texas and Pacific cars also used. I'll ask on the PCL list. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 23:37:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Cars --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s, and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regular working hours! Cant waste any time stopped! :) I believe this was a personal account. Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was just reading in a Keystone from the late 1980s,=20= and it was stated that this was done when they were switching to a different= cabin for that train then the crew could change over their gear during regu= lar working hours!  Cant waste any time stopped! :)  I believe thi= s was a personal account.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio
 --part1_31.34ed80fd.2b9435fe_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Gil Reid PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 07:56:42 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Gil Reid This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the " e-NEWS. " In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner. Al ====================== On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go open heart surgery . He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed that an 85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting our and his beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send it to Mr. Gil Reid , 18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon (March 2nd) I asked how he felt, his replied - " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! " Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine . --Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message
 
 PRRT&HS PR Manager Frank Kuhn prepared the following for me for the  " e-NEWS. "   In as much as it will not go out until March 21st I'm forwarding it to the PRR lists early so those of you who know Gil get the word sooner.
 
Al 
======================
 
On February 24th Legendary Rail Artist Gil Reid  suffered a heart attack at his home in Brookfield , WI and was taken to Waukesha Memorial Hospital to under go  open  heart  surgery .  He was operated on February 27th and came through with flying colors. Doctors were amazed  that an  85 year old man survived the attack and surgery . Gil is now resting and is in fine fettle. He was moved from ICU on Saturday, March 1st  to a regular room. As most of us know Gil has been painting  our and his  beloved PRR since 1935. Anybody wishing to send a card or best wishes may send  it to Mr. Gil Reid ,  18455 Harvest Lane Brookfield, WI 53045-5446. Gil has recieved many awards but his most cherished is the award we the PRRT&HS gave him in 2001 . . On talking to him Sunday afternoon  (March 2nd)  I asked how he felt, his replied  -  " Like A K4 after a Boiler wash ! "  Only Gil! He should resume his normal routine in a few months . So let's show Gil  we care, as we all know a get well card is great medicine .       
 
 
 
--Boundary_(ID_SEWb7tXVEto+8vdUKjKO1Q)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:09:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have lots of pictures of foreign locomotives DIT to other roads, including SCL, SP, Tenn. Central, NH etc. They were usually in the front one-third of the train, but never immediately behind the hauling locomotive, lest the crew try to claim extra units on their time sheet. One interesting point regarding PRR locomotive deliveries. When I was working at Chicago, 59th Street EH and EMD was delivering the GP-30s, EMD would deliver the units via IHB to just over the Indiana line, where a PRR operative would sign for them. Then a PRR crew would tow them back west to Chicago's south side where we would add fuel, water and sand and release them to service. WHY? You ask, would they do that? Why to avoid paying Illinois State Sales Tax, of course. Pennsy folks were humans too, you see. Bill V. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Ronald Di Orio Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM To: Ronald Di Orio; PRR Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive movement Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the PRR, but I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase. What I was talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, etc. For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, how did it travel over Pennsy rails? Thanks again, Ron Ronald Di Orio wrote: How did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the manufacturer to their eventual destination? I am thinking specifically of all the locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would appear to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were eventually going. Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and hauled off, like the "Prosperity Special"? Or were single locomotives, or two's and three's shipped as finished? Were locomotives moved complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added at destination? Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and transported under their own power, either as individual units or pulling a train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy rails? What about diesels? Thanks. Ron _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I  have lots of pictures of = foreign=20 locomotives DIT to other roads, including=20 SCL, SP, Tenn. Central, NH=20 etc.  They were usually in the front one-third of the train, = but=20 never immediately behind the hauling locomotive, lest the crew try to = claim=20 extra units on their time sheet.
 
One interesting point = regarding PRR=20 locomotive deliveries.  When I was working at Chicago, 59th Street = EH and=20 EMD was delivering the GP-30s, EMD would deliver the units via IHB to = just over=20 the Indiana line, where a PRR operative would sign for them.  Then = a PRR=20 crew would tow them back west to Chicago's south side where we would add = fuel,=20 water and sand and release them to=20 service.
 
WHY?  You ask, would they = do=20 that?  Why to avoid paying Illinois State Sales Tax, of = course. =20 Pennsy folks were humans too, you = see.
 
Bill=20 V.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of = Ronald Di=20 Orio
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:56 PM
To: = Ronald Di=20 Orio; PRR Talk
Subject: Re: [PRR] New Locomotive=20 movement

Guys, thanks for the information on delivery of locomotives to the = PRR, but=20 I guess my original message wasn't clear, so let me rephrase.  = What I was=20 talking about was locomotives built for foreign roads by Baldwin, = etc. =20 For example, if Baldwin built a loco for the Santa Fe or SP or MoPac, = how did=20 it travel over Pennsy rails?  Thanks again, Ron=20

=20

 Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com> wrote: = How=20 did newly constructed locomotives typically move from the = manufacturer to=20 their eventual destination?  I am thinking specifically of all = the=20 locomotives constructed by Baldwin and those made at Alco that would = appear=20 to have to travel over Pennsy rails to get where they were = eventually=20 going.  Was the whole order or part of it coupled together and = hauled=20 off, like the "Prosperity Special"?  Or were single = locomotives,=20 or two's and three's shipped as finished?  Were = locomotives moved=20 complete, or stripped of say, valve gear and side rods to be added = at=20 destination?  Were newly constructed motives ever fired up and=20 transported under their own power, either as individual units or = pulling a=20 train (highly unlikely, I assume, for a number of reasons) on Pennsy = rails?  What about diesels?  Thanks.  Ron =20


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Yahoo!=20 Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and = more ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C2E15C.2E6188E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:47:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed - From: "PRR-Talk" >While going through some "archives" (junk in the closet) I found some old 8mm >movies I had taken of the Strasburg Railroad. There were also some footage of >a pair of GG1s pulling a Trailer Train along the mainline at Paradise, Pa. while >the Strasburg loco ran around the train. Since my 8mm projector no longer works, >I was curious if anyone has had old movies converted to video and the approximate >cost. I have about 20 rolls of film I would like to convert. One of them was >taken by a crew member on a Reading freight pulled by a GP7 in the late 1950s. >I shows what it is like riding in the caboose and some switching. Any help and >info would be appreciated. > >Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:09:35 -0500 From: davep Subject: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed ) I have had it done. There are multiple ways. I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. services will be listed in yellow pages, and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were good. (Your Milage May Vary.) But: Videotape has inherently less resolution than film. Information will be lost. Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all the resolution on the original 8/super8. Costs will be higher. ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will lose 'info' that is on the original film. Consider retaining the original film for possible later, higher res, transfer. ================================================================= Nick Kulp wrote: > From: "PRR-Talk" >>While going through some "archives" (junk in the closet) >>I found some old 8mm movies I had taken of the Strasburg >>Railroad. There were also some footage of a pair of GG1s >>pulling a Trailer Train along the mainline at Paradise, >> Pa. while the Strasburg loco ran around the train. Since >>my 8mm projector no longer works, I was curious if anyone >>has had old movies converted to video and the approximate >>cost. I have about 20 rolls of film I would like to convert. >>One of them was taken by a crew member on a Reading freight >>pulled by a GP7 in the late 1950s. >>I shows what it is like riding in the caboose and some >>switching. Any help and info would be appreciated. >> >>Nick Kulp -- best dwp ...the net of a million lies... Vernor Vinge There are Many Web Sites which Say Many Things. -me ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:26:12 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info >I have had it done. There are multiple ways. >I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. > services will be listed in yellow pages, > and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were > good. (Your Milage May Vary.) > >But: > Videotape has inherently less resolution than > film. Information will be lost. > > Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all > the resolution on the original 8/super8. > Costs will be higher. > > ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will > lose 'info' that is on the original film. And video tape does "decay"...our 18 year old wedding video is almost unviewable at this point...and thats not for overuse Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:48:52 -0500 And then there was the story about the guy who erased his wedding tape by taping the Super Bowl Game over top!!!!!!!!!! WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:26 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: Film to video/dvd/etc (Re: [PRR] semi-off topic Info needed ) >I have had it done. There are multiple ways. >I did film-video, I disrecall the cost. > services will be listed in yellow pages, > and its NOT 'very expensive'. The results were > good. (Your Milage May Vary.) > >But: > Videotape has inherently less resolution than > film. Information will be lost. > > Various digital formats (DVD, etc) can capture all > the resolution on the original 8/super8. > Costs will be higher. > > ANY process that goes 'via' videotape will > lose 'info' that is on the original film. And video tape does "decay"...our 18 year old wedding video is almost unviewable at this point...and thats not for overuse Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:34:21 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Site --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Weldon and List, For those who did not have the site come up this is the link: http://b= ellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm=A0=20 Enjoy! Evan --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Weldon and List,

   For those who did not have the site come up this is the link:
   http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm=A0

Enjoy!

Evan
 --part1_173.16834962.2b94c1ed_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:21:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Builders Plate Lists, I am sure many seen that PRR B6s Builders Plate that was on ebay. Anyone here a bidder and happen to know what the deal is? Auction over. Bid history shows: Seller not replying to bidders questions, bidders backing out, Seller cancelling bdders and ending auction early. Sounds fishy to me. Fake? Stolen? Any honest hardware sellers anymore or is it just coincidence eBay is a dumping ground for these items.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KNesbitt@penncro.com Subject: [PRR] Fiar of the Iron Horse cancelled Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:32:21 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60 Content-Type: text/plain This is a bummer Friday, February 28, 2003 Breaking news from Trains.com and the TRAINS Magazine Newswire http://www.trains.com =|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|= The Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Museum announced today it will cancel this summer's Fair of the Iron Horse 175, Festival of Trains. The decision came after assessing damage to the museum's roundhouse, caused by a severe winter storm two weeks ago. Read the full story on the event and see exclusive photos of the damage to the roundhouse by clicking here: http://list.trains.com/UM/T.ASP?A11.53.160.1.77528 Kenny ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fiar of the Iron Horse cancelled

This is a = bummer

Friday, February 28, = 2003
Breaking news from = Trains.com and the TRAINS Magazine Newswire http://www.trains.com

=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D= |=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D|=3D=

The Baltimore & = Ohio Railroad Museum announced today it will cancel this summer's Fair = of the Iron Horse 175, Festival of Trains. The decision came after = assessing damage to the museum's roundhouse, caused by a severe winter = storm two weeks ago. Read the full story on the event and see exclusive = photos of the damage to the roundhouse by clicking here:

http://list.trains.com/UM/T.ASP?A11.53.160.1.77528=


Kenny

------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E19A.1561CF60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:21:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Builders Plate Lists, I am sure many seen that PRR B6s Builders Plate that was on ebay. Anyone here a bidder and happen to know what the deal is? Auction over. Bid history shows: Seller not replying to bidders questions, bidders backing out, Seller cancelling bdders and ending auction early. Sounds fishy to me. Fake? Stolen? Any honest hardware sellers anymore or is it just coincidence eBay is a dumping ground for these items.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac cars in Pennsy train On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] MoPac cars in Pennsy train --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the picture on the top of the page.  The 8th car back from the locomotives appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car.  Also, check out the third car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may just be the light.  Ron


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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-565537020-1046716972=:36699-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K4s details --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Question concerning two items on K4s. Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371. See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a sort of "box". What is the thing below the running board in the box? Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod? What was the function of both items? There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Question concerning two items on K4s.  Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371.  See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a  sort of "box".  What is the thing below the running board in the box?  Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod?  What was the function of both items?  There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question.  Thanks.  Ron


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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1090085135-1046718874=:90381-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:54:18 +0000 As Jim Panza said in his posting, PXEN originated at IHB's Blue Island Yard off a hot connection from the CNW/UP. (CNW #295 maybe??…the train originated in North Platte) I don't have the information in front of me but believe the "Perishable Xpress" symbol originated in either '78 or '79. PXEN replaced either IHEN-A or IHEN-B. Likewise, there was a PXSE, which replaced the A or B section of IHSE. So in theory, I think its accurate to say PXEN was a stepchild of CG-2 or CG-8. These trains were the hottest freights on the railroad behind the Mail and TV trains after they were established. I remember an operator friend at Lima NS Tower getting some time off because he stabbed PXEN for a B&O. I also remember watching PXEN and Amtrak #40 roll side by side out of Crestline one fall night in 1980. PXEN morphed into PXCA during the 82 recession. I'll guess this corresponds with the general downgrading of Enola during the same time period. I'll have to go home and check my records but as traffic recovered from the recession in '83 or '84, PXCA became PXPI. And again, as Jim Panza wrote, by this time, the train was just another freight. Not sure when PXPI became PRPI out of Proviso. Again will have to check. On a side note, PXSE seemed to remain "hotter" longer than its PRR side counterpart. Could be the Hunts Point perishables were greater in volume and was maybe a more stable and consistent source of traffic. I also think the PXSE symbol lasted longer than the PXPI but would have to check. Steve Hipes Columbus OH > >I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at >that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the >train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the >volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on >what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail >Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or >CG-2? > ----- Original Message ----- > > Gentlemen, > > I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR Arranged >Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used > xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard > xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ > xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in >the Conrail era). > > However, I lack documentation that tells me: > 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the >Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH >(Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF >Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW >Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator >Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). > > 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? > > The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because >Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the >Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", allowing >the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via >Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched >from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... > > > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:14:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Question concerning two items on K4s. Go to Gary Mittner's complete K4 photo roster at http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com and bring up image of locomotive 5371. See where the running boards have been altered just behind the cylinders in order to form a sort of "box". What is the thing below the running board in the box? Also, what is the thing sticking out from the front of the cylinder below the center line of the piston that looks sort of like a piece of channel on the end of a rod? What was the function of both items? There is a clearer picture of a K4 with the same items on the old Bowser K4 instruction sheet, loco number 5418, but the photo Gary has of this loco does not clearly show the items in question. Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:41:27 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >>===== Original Message From Jerry Britton >Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great >Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's >Sodus Point pier. > >My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! > I've had a chance to look over the article and it certainly is good news for Elmira (and Sodus) Branch fans... On the plus side, there are the drawings. The scale is pretty small (1/696, or 1/8 HO scale), but the drawings cover the whole pier. I'm hoping that MR has larger size drawings on the web site soon (The March issue is still listed there, but the article notes that there will be more photos and photos of a model on the web site). In addition, there is the best photo of the loading chutes I've seen (still not perfect but the best yet). I had forgotten that the car shakers were new in 1956, and the description of operations would be essential to anyone modeling the dock. On the minus side, the article was too short! It needed more space to cover the protoype better. For example, completely missing was any mention of the metal sheeting between sections to slow the spread of fire. Also the drawings are very small...very very hard to work with. Finally, one real error crept in, in spite of the contribution of a number of learned spfs...The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the Elmira Branch. Anyhoo, I've long reccomended the Elmira Branch/Sodus Point area as perfect PRR territory to model. With this article, N-scale H21 hoppers, N5 and N5c cabins, sharks, F's, PAs, FAs, you're well on your way. All you need now is an inexpensive, modern, good running I1sa!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:55:37 +0000 The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small and the comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I guess 3% grades even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there were only 4 or 6 bins and chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until fully loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up to 24 hours to load one (if you can trust MR). > >>===== Original Message From Jerry Britton > > >Last month MR previewed this months issue, promising drawings of a "Great > >Lakes Coal Pier". I speculated at the time that it "could" be the PRR's > >Sodus Point pier. > > > >My copy arrived today. It is indeed the PRR's coal pier at Sodus Point! > > > > I've had a chance to look over the article and it certainly is good news > for Elmira (and Sodus) Branch fans... > > On the plus side, there are the drawings. The scale is pretty small > (1/696, or 1/8 HO scale), but the drawings cover the whole pier. I'm > hoping that MR has larger size drawings on the web site soon (The March > issue is still listed there, but the article notes that there will be more > photos and photos of a model on the web site). In addition, there is the > best photo of the loading chutes I've seen (still not perfect but the best > yet). I had forgotten that the car shakers were new in 1956, and the > description of operations would be essential to anyone modeling the dock. > > On the minus side, the article was too short! It needed more space to > cover the protoype better. For example, completely missing was any mention > of the metal sheeting between sections to slow the spread of fire. Also > the drawings are very small...very very hard to work with. Finally, one > real error crept in, in spite of the contribution of a number of learned > spfs...The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it > was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the > Elmira Branch. > > Anyhoo, I've long reccomended the Elmira Branch/Sodus Point area as perfect > PRR territory to model. With this article, N-scale H21 hoppers, N5 and N5c > cabins, sharks, F's, PAs, FAs, you're well on your way. All you need now > is an inexpensive, modern, good running I1sa!! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:55:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton On 3/3/03 3:41 PM, Bruce F. Smith (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: > The article claims that the pier was on the Elmira Branch. IIRC, it > was on the Sodus Branch (or was that the Sodus Point Branch?), not the > Elmira Branch. Some "gray area" terminology here... I am recollecting from Gunnarson's "History of the Northern Central Railway": As the NCR built north from Baltimore, it did so under many subsidiary railroads it created. Once the line got above Harrisburg, there was a stretch where they had trackage rights on the P&E. Then the Elmira section, over the Erie near Elmira, and on to what you are referring to which was called the Sodus Bay and Southern. The late John Keel wrote a history of the line for the Hobo's Guide to the Pennsy on the Keystone Crossings site. You can view it at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/guide/soduspt.html In later years, the naming got kind of sketchy and many considered the Elmira Branch the entire distance from Williamsport to Sodus Point. One thing is for sure, it was all the Northern Central Railway. The NCRy was "controlled" by the PRR early on, but wasn't financially "absorbed" until the 19-teens, if I recall. Following this, the lines north of Harrisburg took on their own names and the "Northern Central Branch" was the line from Wago Junction south to Baltimore only. The stretch from Wago Junction to Harrisburg was called the "York Haven Line" as it also included two tracks of the Atglen & Susquehanna "Low Grade" line. By the way, without the Northern Central Railway, there would have been no PRR connection into Washington DC. It was the NCR's tracks that the PRR used from Baltimore to Washington. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:57:03 -0700 Hey Gary, Wasn't that 5371 with the L1s tank on the pilot beam and not 5471 (which was one of the last K4s locomotives left)? Oops! Otherwise, your warning is right on. 5371 was an oddball... Regards, Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) wrote: > It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have > placed on the > website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. > This was not > common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for > modeling unless you > want an odd ball version. .....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical > Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:00:56 -0700 One more item, I believe tha these mechanical lubricators were applied in the late 1920's ( I seem to remember a A. W. Johnson photo of (guess which engine...yup, 5471 at Engelwood) on The Broadway (I can tell since it's got the Lines West train sign on the smokebox front) showing the lubricator. IIRC, it was from the Aug '62 issue of TRAINS (the one with the Durbin article on The Broadway). Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:38:05 -0500 (EST) mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) wrote: > Ron, > > Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside > the walkway > "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name > refers. It > mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts > by pumping > oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would > think. These were > applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:20:39 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small >and the >comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I guess 3% grades >even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there were only 4 or 6 bins >and >chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until >fully >loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it >around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up >to 24 >hours to load one (if you can trust MR). Oh yeah, another point that Caloroso made in his book that wasn't in the article...most of the coal went about 30 miles down the lake to Oswego, and the coal ships were on that short run with some frequency (like once a day, IIRC). I believe that much of the duty of moving the colliers was handled by a steam tug based in Sodus Point. In fact, the I1s were probably overkill, but were the available power, and were needed to move the much longer cuts in the yards. Again, working from memory, 2-8-0s also held that assignment with no problem. In addition, the turntable at Sodus point had to be elongated to accomodate the I1s, and it was done by overhnaging the rails, as seen in the Elmira Branch book! Happy Rials Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:19:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Hi Bill, Yep, you caught my typo. 5371 it is. I could say "you seen one K4, you seen them all"!!! Not the case however. Its the other way around, try to find 2 K4's alike .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks to Marvin and Gary. Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive. As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s. On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole. Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't. And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also. Still not sure what it is or its function. By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so. I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night. Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator. Ron mittner@webtv.net wrote: Ron, Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you want an odd ball version. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Thanks to Marvin and Gary.  Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive.  As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s.  On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole.

Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't.  And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also.  Still not sure what it is or its function. 

By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so.  I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night.  Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator.  Ron 

 mittner@webtv.net wrote:

Ron,

    Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway
"box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It
mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping
oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were
applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's.
    The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the
remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended
forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder.
One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by
making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of
those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all.
    It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the
website. This
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

"PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage.

To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to =
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-1449590923-1046726802=:67222-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K4-s --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471.  Ron


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more --0-733504891-1046728494=:50399-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:25:54 -0500 From: ALGUCKES@aol.com Subject: [PRR] film and video tape I am planning on transferring film to tape professionally and then digitizing it via my computer and storing it on DVDs. It can also easily be edited after it is digitized. Where I live it is not inexpensive (at least from my perspective) to transfer film to video tape - but it sure will be convenient once it is on DVD. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Car Site Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:29:35 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evan: Thanks !!! What a great site, WOW !!! All the best to you and yours Weldon ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RDG2124@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car Site Ben, Weldon and List, For those who did not have the site come up this is the link: http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm =20 Enjoy! Evan ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Evan:   = Thanks !!! =20 What a great site, WOW !!!
 
All the best to you and yours      =20 Weldon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RDG2124@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 = 9:34=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] Passenger Car = Site

Ben, Weldon and List,

   For = those who did=20 not have the site come up this is the link:

   http://bell= southpwp.net/j/m/jmlaboda/PassIndexes.htm =20 =

Enjoy!

Evan
 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2E1AA.75D1F860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Phil Paskos" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:35:58 -0500 The primary purpose of those mechanical lubricators was to pump steam oil into the cylinders. Sort of like mixing oil into a 2 cycle engine. The only difference is the oil is soluble in steam. (steam oil) Some engines had other lubricators to lubricate the steam pumps too. Phil > Ron, > > Thanks for visiting my K4 website. The "thing" inside the walkway > "box" is the Mechanical Lubricator. It does what the name refers. It > mechanically lubricated the Valve gear and related parts by pumping > oil/grease at a prescribed rate using a Cam I would think. These were > applied (Help guys) circa late 1930's. > The other item on the Cylinder head you refer to could be the > remnants of the extended piston rod housing. These housings extended > forward quite a bit. This was to help guide the Piston in the cylinder. > One would assume it kept the piston sleeves from wearing unevenly by > making sure the Piston went in and out freely? Not sure. They rid of > those after some years of service, so must not been needed after all. > It is funny you pick K4 5471 of all the ones I have placed on the > website. This K4s had a L1 type Air tank on the pilot. This was not > common K4 practice. Don't use this K4 as a guide for modeling unless you > want an odd ball version. .....Gary > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:51:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3129565919_28917299 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" wrote: > Actually, the PRR got into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the righ= ts to > build south from Baltimore. The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th > century, I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from th= e > north. The NC did not extend into DC. >=20 We=B9re both right... The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legislature in 1853. However, they couldn=B9t raise the funding and construction did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a former director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the =B3true=B2 ownership was revealed in that the Norther= n Central and the PRR had both ionvested $400k and construction began. Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into Washington, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the mai= n to go to Pope=B9s Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This opened the door for the design of a =B3branch=B2 line into Washington. There=B9s much more to the story, but that=B9s what books are for! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3129565919_28917299 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" <james= .kelling@nara.gov> wrote:

Actually, the PRR go= t into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the rights to build south f= rom Baltimore.  The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th century, = I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from the north.=  The NC did not extend into DC.


We’re both right...

The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legisla= ture in 1853. However, they couldn’t raise the funding and constructio= n did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through the B&O bu= t were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a f= ormer director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the “true” ownership was= revealed in that the Northern Central and the PRR had both ionvested $400k = and construction began.

Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into Washingto= n, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the main to go to= Pope’s Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This = opened the door for the design of a “branch” line into Washingto= n.

There’s much more to the story, but that’s what books are for!<= BR> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are
providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit
our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------
 --B_3129565919_28917299-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:19:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Hi Bill, Yep, you caught my typo. 5371 it is. I could say "you seen one K4, you seen them all"!!! Not the case however. Its the other way around, try to find 2 K4's alike .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:54:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K4-s Now I'm making the same typo, I meant, 5371, not 5471. Ron --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:26:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] K4s details Thanks to Marvin and Gary. Actually, the only reason I picked 5471 is that I started scanning through the pictures looking for a left side of a K4 that clearly showed both of the features I was concerned with---didn't really even look at the rest of the locomotive. As far as the "things" on the cylinder heads, I have seen these also on photos of I-1s. On some of the photos I have seen that are more clear, there appears to be an actual hole in the cylinder head and this rod with the channel on the end protrudes out from the hole. Most of the K4s photos on your site taken during the 30's show this feature--on the photos taken post war some locos have it, some don't. And your photo of K29 shows both an extended piston rod and seems to show this device also. Still not sure what it is or its function. By the way, one of the reasons I'm interested in this is that I'm working on an old Bowser K-4 that I've had put away for 25 years or so. I wasn't really satisfied with the running boards cast on to the cylinder block so I cut those off last night. Now, since I've already attacked the cylinder block I'm thinking about fabricating these details also, and since I have to build new running boards anyhow, may select one that has the mechanical lubricator. Ron "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:51:32 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus PointJerry and James, Yep, there is more involved. In 1867, the PRR did not go to Baltimore. = The Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore, a PRR subsidiary, operated to = President Street Station in downtown Baltimore and connected via B&O = trackage in Pratt St. to access the capital. The Union Railroad was = built to connect the PW&B with the NC at the site of Calvert St Station = and B&P at the site of Union (Penn) Station but AFAIK it was not = completed until 1871. PRR and WM got into a pi**fight over access to industries served by the = Union Railroad in 1966 and I had to wade through all the 19th century = documentation. All the agreements, charters, etc., were all in beautiful = penmanship as the typewriter had not yet been invented! All this was = stored in the attic of Penn Station, Batlimore. I wonder where it is = now?=20 Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jerry Britton=20 To: PRR-Talk=20 Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" wrote: Actually, the PRR got into Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the = rights to build south from Baltimore. The PRR acquired the B&P in the = late 19th century, I believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC = traffic from the north. The NC did not extend into DC. We're both right... The B&P (Baltimore & Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland = legislature in 1853. However, they couldn't raise the funding and = construction did not start as planned. They tried to get funding through = the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 the B&P was purchased by George W. = Cass, a former director of the PRR. Then in 1867 the "true" ownership = was revealed in that the Northern Central and the PRR had both ionvested = $400k and construction began. Part of the charter required that the main line could not go into = Washington, only branch lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the = main to go to Pope's Creek, which made it pass within 35 miles of = Washington. This opened the door for the design of a "branch" line into = Washington. There's much more to the story, but that's what books are for! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of=20 Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana=20 products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings",=20 the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are=20 providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit=20 our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point
Jerry and James,
 
Yep, there is more involved. In 1867, the PRR did = not go to=20 Baltimore. The Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore, a PRR = subsidiary,=20 operated to President Street Station in downtown Baltimore and connected = via=20 B&O trackage in Pratt St. to access the capital. The Union = Railroad was=20 built to connect the PW&B with the NC at the site of Calvert St = Station and=20 B&P at the site of Union (Penn) Station but AFAIK it was not = completed until=20 1871.
 
PRR and WM got into a pi**fight over access to = industries=20 served by the Union Railroad in 1966 and I had to wade through all the = 19th=20 century documentation. All the agreements, charters, etc., were all in = beautiful=20 penmanship as the typewriter had not yet been invented! All this was = stored in=20 the attic of Penn Station, Batlimore. I wonder where it is=20 now? 
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jerry = Britton=20
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 = 7:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR = Features Sodus=20 Point

On 3/3/03 5:09 PM, "James Kelling" = <james.kelling@nara.gov>=20 wrote:
Actually, the PRR got = into=20 Washington, DC via the B&P, which had the rights to build south = from=20 Baltimore.  The PRR acquired the B&P in the late 19th = century, I=20 believe, and thus competed with the B&O for DC traffic from the = north.=20  The NC did not extend into = DC.


We=92re both right...

The B&P (Baltimore = &=20 Potomac) was chartered by the Maryland legislature in 1853. However, = they=20 couldn=92t raise the funding and construction did not start as = planned. They=20 tried to get funding through the B&O but were turned down. In 1861 = the=20 B&P was purchased by George W. Cass, a former director of the PRR. = Then in=20 1867 the =93true=94 ownership was revealed in that the Northern = Central and the=20 PRR had both ionvested $400k and construction began.

Part of = the=20 charter required that the main line could not go into Washington, only = branch=20 lines of 35 miles or less. So they designed the main to go to Pope=92s = Creek,=20 which made it pass within 35 miles of Washington. This opened the door = for the=20 design of a =93branch=94 line into Washington.

There=92s much = more to the=20 story, but that=92s what books are=20 = for!
-----------------------------------------------------------------= ----
Jerry=20 Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com=20     Member, PRRT&HS

"Merchandise = Service", a=20 division of Desktop Solutions of
Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller = of=20 model railroad and railroadiana
products. "MS" is also host to the = web=20 site "Keystone Crossings",
the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the = mailing lists=20 "PRR-Talk", "Conrail-
Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase = through=20 "MS", you are
providing financial support to these Internet = endeavors.=20 Please visit
our eCommerce web site at=20 = http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.
------------------------------Thank=20 = you!-----------------------------
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2E1C6.AC5DD540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:05:05 -0500 From: jconsoli@paonline.com Subject: Re: [PRR] CABOOSE HANDRAIL PAINTING Dick, In the December 1974 KEYSTONE is the paint diagram D-80499 for classes N5, N5a, N5b & N5d. The revision you are looking for is: "Specification for painting handholds Chrome-Yellow at corners of car has been added. 1-3-1949" Jack Consoli Richard Poole wrote: > PRR TALK, > > Can anyone tell me when the PRR started to paint the hand-rails & grab-irons YELLOW on their N-5b cabins? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:26:19 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point --- Jerry Britton wrote: > The NCRy was "controlled" by the PRR early on, but wasn't > financially > "absorbed" until the 19-teens, if I recall. Valuation date for the NCRy was June 30, 1918, and as of that date it was still a leased line. See: http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Corphist/ncr.html Schotter mentions the lease (1914), but says nothing about NCRy being assimilated ("Resistance is futile...") up to 1926. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. According to the 1945 CT1000 at: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/downloads/ct1000e_1945.pdf the Elmira and Williamsport RR went from Williamsport to Elmira (imagine that). 74.6 miles from Williamsport, it connected to the Erie. 5.2 miles along the Erie, there was a connection to the Elmira and Lake Ontario RR. The E&LO went through Watkins, Penn Yan, and Stanley to Canandaigua, where it ended, 64.3 miles from the connection with the Erie at Chemung Jct. All of the foregoing is on pages 186-189, headed "Williamsport Division Elmira Branch" At Stanley the Sodus Bay Branch connects to the Elmira Branch. That connection is 132.3 miles from Williamsport or 52.5 miles from Chemung Jct. It's 33.8 miles from Stanley to Sodus Point. Pages 190-191 indicate that the Sodus Bay Br. is also part of the Elmira and Lake Ontario RR. So, properly speaking, in 1945 the coal dock was served by the Sodus Bay Branch. Of course, if you were in Williamsport or Altoona, intending to go to the dock, you would have to travel many miles on the Elmira Branch in order to get there. What may have happened after 1945 I know not. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:21:17 -0500 I have a copy of the track chart. The cover states Track Chart, PRR, Central Region, Northern Division, Susquehanna District, Elmira Branch, Sodus Secondary, Marion Track, Office of the District Engineer, Williamsport, PA The Sodus Bay Secondary starts at Stanley, NY and runs to Sodus Point. The date of the chart is unreadable. I also have a nice picture of an engine pushing coal cars up onto the pier. It looks like a 2-10-0 buy I can't tell for sure. It is a jpg file titled Sodus Point by Jim Shaughnessy. I don't remember where I got it. Roy Breon Pittsford NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:27:29 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > According to the 1945 CT1000 at: > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/downloads/ct1000e_1945.pdf > > the Elmira and Williamsport RR went from Williamsport to Elmira > (imagine that). > > 74.6 miles from Williamsport, it connected to the Erie. 74.6 miles, or milepost 74.6? ;-) seriously, the story about 2 mileposts being skipped that was in caloroso's book agrees with track charts. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:00:34 -0500 I personally was there (I believe it was in the fall of 1966) when they loaded the last boat from the pier. I really wondered if the damned thing was going to make it across the pond. It really looked like it was on its last legs. Wasn't a very large scow either as lake boats went. WDV PS We used a couple of RS-11s up there to service the coal pier. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Bruce F. Smith Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:21 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New MR Features Sodus Point >The amazing thing to me was that the coal bins themselves were so small >and the comment that cars were pushed 6 at a time onto the pier. I >guess 3% grades even taxed the I-1's used. Plus the fact that there >were only 4 or 6 bins and >chutes per side meant that the ship had to be constantly relocated until >fully >loaded. Yet I didn't see any evidence of a car (read ship) puller to move it >around. I'll bet ship captains hated the place since it said it took up >to 24 >hours to load one (if you can trust MR). Oh yeah, another point that Caloroso made in his book that wasn't in the article...most of the coal went about 30 miles down the lake to Oswego, and the coal ships were on that short run with some frequency (like once a day, IIRC). I believe that much of the duty of moving the colliers was handled by a steam tug based in Sodus Point. In fact, the I1s were probably overkill, but were the available power, and were needed to move the much longer cuts in the yards. Again, working from memory, 2-8-0s also held that assignment with no problem. In addition, the turntable at Sodus point had to be elongated to accomodate the I1s, and it was done by overhnaging the rails, as seen in the Elmira Branch book! Happy Rials Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:56:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal From: Jerry Britton In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? Always looking for photos of the Cresson steam facility, so if you know of any -- other than those in Triumph I -- please let me know! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:10:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal From: Jerry Britton On 3/4/03 10:56 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, > updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm > interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive > terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? > Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? > Wow, just occurred to me, if it is "ice house", then I'll have to send reefers in to supply ice, huh? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:10:31 +0000 I believe the ice house in question was to cool the drinking water supply for the crews. It was the fireman's duty to make sure the drinking water supply was maintained while servicing the locomotive. > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive terminal, > updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice Ho". I'm > interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam locomotive > terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be worked on quicker? > Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, wouldn't it? > > Always looking for photos of the Cresson steam facility, so if you know of > any -- other than those in Triumph I -- please let me know! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Br., Sodus Bay Br. --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, robert netzlof wrote: > > > According to the 1945 CT1000 > > 74.6 miles, or milepost 74.6? ;-) Generally speaking, the mileages shown in the CT1000's aren't mileposts. For example, the Pittsburgh Div. mileages in the CT1000 are from a zero at the Altoona Passenger Station. Mileposts between Altoona and Pittsburgh are based on a zero somewhere (and don't start that again) in Philadelphia. Don't know what the story is on the Elmira Branch and its branches. Since there were 2 railroads, (E&W, E&LO) I suppose there might be E&W mileposts with a zero at Williamport or Elmira, and E&LO mileposts with a zero at Chemung Jct. The CT1000 mileage zero is at Williamsport. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:30:50 -0500 The ice house supplied ice to the Cabin Car refrigerators and the locomotive crews' ice chests for cold drinking water. We still do that for the crews to this day even though the locos and coaches have mechanical refrigerators on board. WDV P.S. In 1954 there were still lots of ice activated P-70s in circulation on the PRR, but not at Cresson. That was another use for the ice housii. WDV -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:10 AM To: Jerry Britton; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ice House at Steam Loco Terminal On 3/4/03 10:56 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing the valuation maps of the Cresson steam locomotive > terminal, updated to 1954, there are two small buildings labeled "Ice > Ho". I'm interpreting that to be "ice house". Am I wrong here? > > If I am correct, what was the role of an ice house at a steam > locomotive terminal? Was it just to cool hot locos so they could be > worked on quicker? Seems to me that would be harder on the metal, > wouldn't it? > Wow, just occurred to me, if it is "ice house", then I'll have to send reefers in to supply ice, huh? ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. Lists, Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] P&L Dock Co. Lists, Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hipes" Subject: Re: [PRR] PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI (Arranged Freight Schedules) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:02:07 +0000 Here's a folow-up to yesterday's posting on the successors to CG-2 and CG-8, Conrail's PX trains. These trains were Conrail's attempt to regain some of the perishable business lost to trucks in the late 60s and 70s. I don't think the volume of perishable business on a PX train was ever comparable to that on CG-2 or CG-8 (i.e. large blocks of perishable traffic). PXEN was inaugurated in 1978. IHB Blue Island to Enola off a connection from CNW #244 from UP/North Platte. Advertised 6th morning delivery to the east coast from Oakland. As Jim Panza wrote, Philly perishables did quick connect to ENPG for the Philadelphia Fruit Market. PXCA IHB Blue Island to Camden/Pavonia. Replaced PXEN sometime in 1982 after the train was routed off the Fort Wayne Line to the Chicago Line/Cleveland Line routing. The symbol change reflects 1) downgrading of Enola and 2) an attempt (at least on paper) to provide a direct service into Philly for perishables. PXPG IHB Blue Island to Philadelphia-Greenwich. Short-lived replacement of PXCA; operated for a few months in 1984. I recall photographing this train in Altoona during the summer of '84 and remember a couple of days when it carried no perishables. PXPI IHB Blue Island to Conway then CNW Proviso to Conway. East coast perishables connected to PICA or PIOI. PRPI CNW Proviso to Conway. Symbol changed to reflect Proviso relay, fall 1992. PX symbol eliminated on PXSE as well. Steve Hipes Columbus, Ohio > > >As Jim Panza said in his posting, PXEN originated at IHB's Blue Island Yard >off a hot connection from the CNW/UP. (CNW #295 maybe??…the train >originated in North Platte) I don't have the information in front of me >but believe the "Perishable Xpress" symbol originated in either '78 or '79. > PXEN replaced either IHEN-A or IHEN-B. Likewise, there was a PXSE, which >replaced the A or B section of IHSE. So in theory, I think its accurate to >say PXEN was a stepchild of CG-2 or CG-8. > >These trains were the hottest freights on the railroad behind the Mail and >TV trains after they were established. I remember an operator friend at >Lima NS Tower getting some time off because he stabbed PXEN for a B&O. I >also remember watching PXEN and Amtrak #40 roll side by side out of >Crestline one fall night in 1980. > >PXEN morphed into PXCA during the 82 recession. I'll guess this >corresponds with the general downgrading of Enola during the same time >period. I'll have to go home and check my records but as traffic recovered >from the recession in '83 or '84, PXCA became PXPI. And again, as Jim >Panza wrote, by this time, the train was just another freight. Not sure >when PXPI became PRPI out of Proviso. Again will have to check. > >On a side note, PXSE seemed to remain "hotter" longer than its PRR side >counterpart. Could be the Hunts Point perishables were greater in volume >and was maybe a more stable and consistent source of traffic. I also think >the PXSE symbol lasted longer than the PXPI but would have to check. > >Steve Hipes >Columbus OH > > > > > > > > >> >>I remember the PXEN passing through Altoona in the late afternoon and at >>that time there was a mechanic from Merchants Despatch who monitored the >>train. The PX was the abbreviation for Perishable Express. With the >>volume of UPFE reefers, I suspect that it originated at Proviso Yard on >>what was then C&NW. Does anyone have a copy of the book "Conrail >>Commodities" that can confirm this? Was this the stepchild of CG-8 or >>CG-2? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> Gentlemen, >> >> I keep seeing references to PXEN, etc. as the successor to PRR >>Arranged Freight Schedules. I know that Conrail used >> xxEN for trains destined to Enola Yard >> xxCA for trains destined to Camden NJ >> xxPI for trains destined to Pittsburgh (but specifically for Conway in >>the Conrail era). >> >> However, I lack documentation that tells me: >> 1. what origin point was assigned letters PX? Context says it's in the >>Chicago area, where other origin yards included FN (59th Street), CH >>(Colehour), CJ (Ashland Avenue on the Chicago Junction RR), BN (BN/BNSF >>Cicero Yard), CW (Wisconsin Central), FF (55th Street), MI (MILW >>Bensenville), PR (CNW Proviso), RI (CRIP South Chicago), SF (ATSF Streator >>Yard), and SO (SOO BRC Clearing Yard). >> >> 2. in what period did PXEN, PXCA, and PXPI run? >> >> The answers to these questions are particulary interesting because >>Conrail normally used Elkhart as the sorting point for traffic from the >>Chicago area -- trains could be built there for "everywhere east", >>allowing the Big Split between the Water Level Route and the PRR lines via >>Pittsburgh and Harrisburg to be made right there. Thus, trains dispatched >>from the Chicago area and bypassing Elkhart had to be something special... >> >> >> >> Rick Tipton >> Louisville KY >> Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > >_________________________________________________________________ >STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:19:43 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] My PRR web sites... Hello All, Both Jerry B andf Bill V have pointed out errors appearing on my PRR web pages. I appear to have suffered a dissappearing directory problem. All of my PRR pages are affected, with most files and URLs having vanished off of the server. I thought it was a server issue (an exploding hard drive last night), but the files have been gone several days, so it may just have been yours truely, somehow deleting an entire directory??? I can only figure it happened when I was forced to work on a PC for a few days, and the evil Bill Gates exacted his revenge! I have the computer geeks (sorry Jerry, nothing personal) working on restoring the files from backup, and I have most of them backed up on my computer as well. Hopefully, all will return to normal within the next few days. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:43:04 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans More on heavyweight Pullmans... In the latest MR I noted that IHC is selling passenger cars for $7.99 each. This is confirmed at their web site http://www.ihc-hobby.com. In the past we've noted that the IHC/Rivarossi 12-1 is a plan 3410B car that can be converted to the more common plans 3410, 3410 and 2410. 1) Is there any difference between the Rivarossi 12-1, listing at $26.98 at Walthers, and the "2nd tooling" IHC car? 2) What is the plan/protoype of the 8-1-2 Pullman that they (IHC) offer? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:06:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Black Gold, Black Diamonds From: Jerry Britton Anyone in touch with Eric Hirsimaki, author of the "Black Gold, Black Diamonds" series? I'm wondering where volume three is...the one I really need!!! (on the 1950's.) It's been a few years since Volume Two came out, and I figure we're about due for another fix! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:18:05 -0500 Gary, Are you sure you are not referring to the Pittsburgh & Conneaut Dock Company, which was a U S Steel subsidiary that owned the ore and coal docks on Lake Erie? Somehwre deep in the long lost recesses of my mind "P&L Dock Co." has a hazy connection to the ore docks of the PRR at Ashtabula, Ohio. I recall meeting the ore dock agent at a party given by the PRR coal sales department in Cleveland, Ohio, 39 years ago and I think that's who he said operated the docks Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:31 AM Subject: [PRR] P&L Dock Co. > Lists, > > Anyone have info as to where and who was the "P&L Dock Company". > Not sure if it is RR or Trucking or ? related I am assuming Rail > related in the ports of Lake Erie somewhere but can find nothing via the > internet. Any info would be useful....Thanks....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] oil headlights Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:40:26 +0000 Some oil headlights on steam engines had a rectangular column centered above the main body of the headlight. Does anybody know what purpose this served? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] oil headlights Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:17:59 -0500 Norm, ALL oil headlamps had some sort of vent or chimney on top, even trainman's lanterns or marker lights have them Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: [PRR] oil headlights > Some oil headlights on steam engines had a rectangular column centered above > the main body of the headlight. Does anybody know what purpose this served? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:18:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars. The biggest differences I have noted are the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detailing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Also the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic". The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/window band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A. Chris Baker #1918 --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the=20= older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars.  The biggest differences I have noted are= the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detail= ing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Als= o the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic".

The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/w= indow band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. = The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A.

Chris Baker #1918 --part1_12a.248861fe.2b969c4c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:18:53 -0500 From: Phil Balles Subject: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches All Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody details of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one of the ECW kits. Thanks Phil Balles ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Garry Spear Subject: RE: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:56:35 -0500 There are two different window configurations in for the women's lavatory in plan 3979A cars. Most cars had a full height center window in the women's lavatory. The PRR had 3 cars like this: CENTFAUN, CENTHILL, and CENTWOOD. The rest of the PRR cars had a shorter window in the center. The lot is the key to determining the window height. http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_Sleeper_Car.htm and scroll down to 8599 to see the PRR car names. Garry Spear -----Original Message----- From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [SMTP:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:18 PM To: smithbf@mail.auburn.edu; RAILROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Heavyweight Pullmans The IHC 12-1 Pullman appears to be very much like the older AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars. The biggest differences I have noted are the need for the modeler to install the handrails himself, the truck detailing is simplified and the truck profile shallower on the newer IHC cars. Also the overall quality of the newer IHC cars appears to be more "basic". The 8-1-2 car (aside from being deformed proportionally in the letterbaord/window band/side panel areas) possesses the same qualities as the 12-1. The prototype plan for this Pullman is 3979A. Chris Baker #1918 << File: ATT00001.htm >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:15:20 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of the inside of the prototype Bethlehem car works RPO I'm trying to detail the interior and the top down plans from my PRR book aren't that helpful. TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Bethlehem B60 Baggage car Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:12:04 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. I'm building a B60 baggage car. It comes with Middle division decals. One of the options is for a messenger car. The decals show a messenger car with the star only over "PRR" (with 2 Keystones) on the side. Was the star placed over "PENNSYLVANIA" . Are the vents the right size for a messenger car. Where does the toilet drain get placed? TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Roundhouse Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:18:48 -0500 Listers, Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. (last one) What would the interior color of a roundhouse like Northumberland be? Would the pillars be white on the bottom darker above as a safety measure? How about the walls? One color up to 8ft another higher? TIA Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:00:11 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Your best bet is probably the now famous issue of the Keystone dedicated to RPO cars. It had plans and photos of every RPO the PRR ever had! Unfortunately it is not famous enough for me to remember which issue it was off the top of my head ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > Listers, > > Excuse multiple post but I'm keeping topics separate. > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO I'm trying to detail the interior and the > top down plans from my PRR book aren't that helpful. > > TIA > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:12:13 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that may help your cause. I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not to your level of detail). It's been a fun building experience. Doug --- "Chany, Christopher" wrote, in part > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:13:29 -0500 Doug, I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Doug Kisala [mailto:dougkisala@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:12 PM To: Chany, Christopher Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Chris, Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that may help your cause. I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not to your level of detail). It's been a fun building experience. Doug --- "Chany, Christopher" wrote, in part > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works RPO __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:17:10 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches Phil, list, Purchase or borrow through Interlibrary Loan the NJ International book "Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book." It has plans for the P70 subclasses and underbody equipment is part of the plans. The photos are also handy for placing details. While out of print, the book has more than paid for itself by helping me detail (so far) five P70FBRs. Doug --- Phil Balles wrote: > All > > Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody > details > of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one > of the ECW kits. > > Thanks > Phil Balles > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:37:34 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Doug, > >I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. > >Chris Indeed, I've been wondering about what to put in mine! IIRC, and if its any help, the area beneath the windows held the mailbags that were hung open, in racks to recvieve the sorted mail. The pigeon holes and sorting desks were in the windowless area. The area with the bags appears to have "stanchions" or poles from floor to ceiling, which might be the most prominent detail seen through the window. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:36:15 -0600 Hi Phil. Railroad Model Craftsman for April 1995 has an article, some plans, including underbody. But it's generic, not P70 specific. The P70 is mentioned, and the article is helpful - 6 pages long. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Balles" To: "prr talk" Sent: Tuesday, 04 March, 2003 19:18 Subject: [PRR] Underbody details on P70 coaches > Has anybody seen plans or diagrams of the underbody details of a P70 / P70R / P70FBR? I'm trying to detail one of the ECW kits. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:54:30 -0500 Bruce, >From the plans I figured that the circles were poles but did they hang mailbags waiting to be sorted there or were they stacked on the floor around the poles. Or do I just put open mailbags on racks under each window? Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:38 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Doug, > >I figure with those big windows next to each other it needs some interior. > >Chris Indeed, I've been wondering about what to put in mine! IIRC, and if its any help, the area beneath the windows held the mailbags that were hung open, in racks to recvieve the sorted mail. The pigeon holes and sorting desks were in the windowless area. The area with the bags appears to have "stanchions" or poles from floor to ceiling, which might be the most prominent detail seen through the window. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:37:05 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] K-3s Great information on building a K-5s from other kit components. Anyone have any ideas on building a K-3s in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major components would have to be scratched. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:33:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, Cary used to make a Boiler for the K2/K3. But now days finding one of those is like finding hens teeth. But if you could find one and with all the money spent acquiring all the detail parts and the time to assemble everything, it would be easier and possibly cheaper finding a Brass Westside K3. But you loose out on the joy of making something out of nothing...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:43:50 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: RE: [PRR] RPO >Bruce, > >>From the plans I figured that the circles were poles but did they hang >mailbags waiting to be sorted there or were they stacked on the floor around >the poles. Or do I just put open mailbags on racks under each window? > >Chris Chany Chris, FACT: the circle are poles ;^) RAMPANT SPECULATION: IIRC, the mail bags were sometimes stored closed, hanging from hooks on the poles or just stacked in the area of the poles. Other photos I have seen of OTHER RPOs indicate that the bags were hung open, in the space between the poles (possibley by hooks on the poles). In this way, sorted mail could be tossed into the correct bag for its destination. In other RPOs, the poles are sometimes connected with cross members, perhaps to contain the mailbags from swinging out too far? I planned to model the poles, open mail bags, a mail clerk in front of the bags, and something to at least give the impression of of the cubbies and work surfaces in the other areas... BTW, it is my impression that the the M70B was a pretty rare car in the ranks of PRR RPOs...is that true? (and we're all modeling the "oddball"!) Hey, how about modeling it with the door open and crew ready with the hook out? I'm thinking about modeling a couple of B60bs that way for kitchen cars on one of my troop trains. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:54:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR Drift Cards List, While our local Railroad Historical Society (Beaver Valley Jct Chapter) continues work on the restoration of our PRR N5c 477974 Cabin, the day will eventually come when we will actually start applying Paint. The plans are to restore the N5c the best we can to 1942 appearances. This means the interrior will be painted BUFF and the Floor Red. With the help of Bob Johnson, last night he supplied me with the PRR paint number for the Red but not for the Buff. (you have that one too Bob?) To make things easier for us to match these colors, does anyone have any drift Cards for PRR INTERIOR BUFF and the RED FLOOR ENAMEL they could loan for a short period of time. Not sure if those are the correct PRR names but you get the idea. A Local paint supplied should be able to match these for us. Here is the website for the N5c Restoration: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Several more work sessions have been acomplished since the last web update. All porthole windows are now open but yet await final cleanup. The poor looking floor is about to be removed and new Oak Boards laid which will eventually be painted Red. Lots more to do but with summer coming we hope to make real headway. The website should show this progress. Please contact me off list if help with Color Drift Cards can be arranged. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:37:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] K-3s Great information on building a K-5s from other kit components. Anyone have any ideas on building a K-3s in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major components would have to be scratched. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:33:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, Cary used to make a Boiler for the K2/K3. But now days finding one of those is like finding hens teeth. But if you could find one and with all the money spent acquiring all the detail parts and the time to assemble everything, it would be easier and possibly cheaper finding a Brass Westside K3. But you loose out on the joy of making something out of nothing...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 16:54:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Drift Cards List, While our local Railroad Historical Society (Beaver Valley Jct Chapter) continues work on the restoration of our PRR N5c 477974 Cabin, the day will eventually come when we will actually start applying Paint. The plans are to restore the N5c the best we can to 1942 appearances. This means the interrior will be painted BUFF and the Floor Red. With the help of Bob Johnson, last night he supplied me with the PRR paint number for the Red but not for the Buff. (you have that one too Bob?) To make things easier for us to match these colors, does anyone have any drift Cards for PRR INTERIOR BUFF and the RED FLOOR ENAMEL they could loan for a short period of time. Not sure if those are the correct PRR names but you get the idea. A Local paint supplied should be able to match these for us. Here is the website for the N5c Restoration: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/BVJCN5c.html Several more work sessions have been acomplished since the last web update. All porthole windows are now open but yet await final cleanup. The poor looking floor is about to be removed and new Oak Boards laid which will eventually be painted Red. Lots more to do but with summer coming we hope to make real headway. The website should show this progress. Please contact me off list if help with Color Drift Cards can be arranged. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:30:21 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO For those willing to travel, the RR museum in Bellevue Ohio has an absolutely beautiful PRR RPO with complete interior. Don't know who the manufacturer was, though. http://www.onebellevue.com/madriver/ Doug Kisala wrote: > Chris, > > Try the Spring 1993 Keystone. It has an exhaustive > article by Chuck Blardone about PRR steel RPOs. I > didn't see any interior photos of an M70b, but there > are interior diagrams of the M70b. There are also > several excellent interior photos of BM70n cars that > may help your cause. > > I'm also building an M70b from the BCW kit (though not > to your level of detail). It's been a fun building > experience. > > Doug > > --- "Chany, Christopher" > wrote, in part > > > > > Does anyone know where I can find a good photo of > > the inside of the > prototype Bethlehem car works > RPO > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: USMCnewdog25431@cs.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:55:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you know where it is on the lot? I haven't been there in awhile. Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do you know where it is on the lot?  I haven't be= en there in awhile.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio
 --part1_12b.24b00a00.2b98047d_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 22:00:19 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't been to Bellevue in two years myself. Last time we were there the RPO was on the "main" side of the museum - not the "annex" across the street, and located alongside the church next door. It was really neat....it was like it had just been taken out of service. The city names were still on the mail sorting racks/slots or whatever they are called, and there were bags on the holders. It seemed like the only thing missing was a guy to step aboard and start sorting. Absolutely great. USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote: > Do you know where it is on the lot? I haven't been there in awhile. > > Mike Schock > Sandusky, Ohio --------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't been to Bellevue in two years myself.  Last time we were there the RPO was on the "main" side of the museum - not the "annex" across the street, and located alongside the church next door.  It was really neat....it was like it had just been taken out of service.  The city names were still on the mail sorting racks/slots or whatever they are called, and there were bags on the holders.  It seemed like the only thing missing was a guy to step aboard and start sorting.  Absolutely great.
 

USMCnewdog25431@cs.com wrote:

Do you know where it is on the lot?  I haven't been there in awhile.

Mike Schock
Sandusky, Ohio

--------------F83A6571B0EC46A31F1A87D7-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:26:43 EST Subject: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Ronald Di Orio > Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train > > On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the > picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives > appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third > car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it > may just be the light. Ron > Ron, >From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to St. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lightweights like this one). Believe the paint scheme is referred to as Eagle Blue and Gray (see RPC6). Storage mail is as good a guess as any, loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city. Note that I've never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis? And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train? Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard=20= Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes:


Message: 4
   Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST)
   From: Ronald Di Orio <prr2249@yahoo.com>
Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train

On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the pictur= e on the top of the page.  The 8th car back from the locomotives appear= s to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car.  Also, check out the third car=20= back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it may=20= just be the light.  Ron


Ron,

>From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to S= t. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lig= htweights like this one).  Believe the paint scheme is referred to as E= agle Blue and Gray (see RPC6).  Storage mail is as good a guess as any,= loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city.  Note that I've= never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). 

One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-pho= tographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis?  An= d do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas= , or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train?

Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of exp= ress boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railw= ay Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains?<= BR>

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_37.35242dbe.2b982803_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:26:43 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac baggage on #13 In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Ronald Di Orio > Subject: MoPac cars in Pennsy train > > On page 149 of Ball's Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s check out the > picture on the top of the page. The 8th car back from the locomotives > appears to me to be a MoPac baggage/mail car. Also, check out the third > car back from the locos--this also appears to be a foreign road car, but it > may just be the light. Ron > Ron, >From study of many pix and slides, it's pretty normal for #13 (New York to St. Louis) to carry one or two MoPac baggage cars (either heavyweights or lightweights like this one). Believe the paint scheme is referred to as Eagle Blue and Gray (see RPC6). Storage mail is as good a guess as any, loaded for Dallas or (less likely) another Texas city. Note that I've never seen a MoPac RPO (nor would I expect to). One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from New York on the much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing them east from St. Louis? And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas Eagle out of Fort Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri Pacific train? Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific had several groups of express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for passenger service per Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't we seeing them in PRR trains? Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/bbvVKB/oEZFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:39:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Stone Bridge Construction From: Jerry Britton Dan (& list): I'm building a Model Railroad Stoneworks Rockville Bridge kit, modified to be my Sherman's Creek bridge. I have a question of the prototype and you probably have been closest to it (Rockville or Shermans). I'm going to try to get close this Saturday for some pics, but I am always careful to not trespass, especially in this day and age! The "coping stones" along the top outer edges form a "trough" in the top surface of the bridge itself... Do the ties and rails sit in this trough so as to be "between" the coping stones, or is the ballast built up enough so that the ties and rail are actually "higher" than the elevation of the coping stones? I seem to recall the ballast being higher than the coping stones, with ballast spilling over their top surfaces to just near the edge of the bridge itself. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:11:32 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Show in Harrisburg, PA on March 15 From: Jerry Britton On Saturday, March 15, 2003, the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS will host its annual "RAILROAD SHOW & COLLECTORS MARKET" from 9 a.m. - 3 p.m. at the I. W. Abel Union Hall (Steelworkers Union) on 200 Gibson Street in Steelton, Pa., just outside of Harrisburg. More details can be found at http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/Trainshow/trainshow2003.html Is this a "great" show? No. Nothing like Timonium. But it is a "good" show. Stop by if you can. Members of the Northern Central Chapter will be manning a table to sell PRRT&HS wares... I'll be there with "Merchandise Service"... etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] GG1's Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:16:58 +0000 I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 and as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop off the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight accross and repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:36:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] FW: E-Store RFP E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS As was reported in the February 28, 2003, Special Edition of "e-NEWS," the Society has temporarily discontinued operation of its e-store. Although our general experience with the store has been less than completely satisfactory, it is believed to be a viable enterprise for the Society to be engaged in. Therefore, we are currently evaluating options on how to operate the store and soliciting proposals from interested individuals or businesses with experience in this field. Those submitting proposals should have a merchant's account, preferably with Visa and/or Master Card. However, alternate methods of payment may be considered. If you or your business would like to work with the Society in its operation of the e-store, you are invited to submit a proposal to the Society. There are several ways in which the store could operate. If you have alternative methods to offer as possible solutions, please submit each alternative as a separate proposal outlining the advantages and disadvantages of each. Proposals must specify the experience that you or your business has in operating online merchandise services. Proposals should be emailed to abbuchan1@comcast.net or sent by US Mail to Al Buchan, 785 Cornwallis Drive, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209. All serious proposals will be reviewed and given consideration during the next BoD meeting, to be held on May 1, 2003. All proposals should be submitted by April 25, 2003. "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:36:35 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] FW: E-Store RFP E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS As was reported in the February 28, 2003, Special Edition of "e-NEWS," the Society has temporarily discontinued operation of its e-store. Although our general experience with the store has been less than completely satisfactory, it is believed to be a viable enterprise for the Society to be engaged in. Therefore, we are currently evaluating options on how to operate the store and soliciting proposals from interested individuals or businesses with experience in this field. Those submitting proposals should have a merchant's account, preferably with Visa and/or Master Card. However, alternate methods of payment may be considered. If you or your business would like to work with the Society in its operation of the e-store, you are invited to submit a proposal to the Society. There are several ways in which the store could operate. If you have alternative methods to offer as possible solutions, please submit each alternative as a separate proposal outlining the advantages and disadvantages of each. Proposals must specify the experience that you or your business has in operating online merchandise services. Proposals should be emailed to abbuchan1@comcast.net or sent by US Mail to Al Buchan, 785 Cornwallis Drive, Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209. All serious proposals will be reviewed and given consideration during the next BoD meeting, to be held on May 1, 2003. All proposals should be submitted by April 25, 2003. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:09:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: Stone Bridge Construction From: Jerry Britton On 3/6/03 11:03 AM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > There are two courses of stone block that crown the arches and > spandrels, each projecting slightly but progressively further outward > from the bridge centerline. The second-to-top layer of stone is called > the string course, and the top layer is called the coping. The ballast > originally was filled in such that the top of the ties lay about level > with or maybe slightly below the top surface of the coping. > > However, as you know, the railroad over the years has built up the > roadbed with successive rounds of cleaning and raising the ballast. Hence my reason for sending this to Dan first, and secondarily to the list...Dan, I knew you'd come through on this one! Regarding the model: It comes with Homabed of the same height as the string/coping courses. The question was whether or not to place the track directly on the Homabed/coping or to raise it by the amount of N scale cork roadbed (about 1/8"). I model 1954, so having been in service and reballasted for 52 years, that amount of raise may be appropriate. I have the arches all assembled in place and will soon be adding the coping course. Once that is glued in place, I'll mock it up both ways and see how it looks. Putting the cork on top is actually to my advantage, for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:19:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Pipe Fence From: Jerry Britton I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the Rockville Bridge, which did not. If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with piano wire? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:24:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS 2004 Annual Meeting Dates Friends, There was some question a week ago about the dates for the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Cincinnati, OH. I contacted Rick Bailey of the host Cincinnati Modelers and he advised me that it will be held from Thursday, April 29 - Sunday, May 2, 2004. Al "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:24:03 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS 2004 Annual Meeting Dates Friends, There was some question a week ago about the dates for the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in Cincinnati, OH. I contacted Rick Bailey of the host Cincinnati Modelers and he advised me that it will be held from Thursday, April 29 - Sunday, May 2, 2004. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sam Rea Line Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:53:23 -0500 Chris: The idea of building the Sam Rea line goes along with my previous e-mail to the list, of creating your own history. Your spurious history would be very close to reality and very well could have been. Overhead wire would be a given, after all, Big Liz was developed for conquering the Alleghenies with standard AC, not third rail DC. This would also give you the option of creating some might have been locomotives too. Or even PRR purchasing E-33s from GE to make up a motive power shortage in 195X (whatever). Experimental turbines like the UP had?? or whatever you can imagine. It is conceivable that PRR would have survived the 60's if the Sam Rea line were built and electrified. It would have cut hours off the Chicago run and beat the NYC everytime, sucking business away from them each year. Go for it! Lew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chany, Christopher" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: [PRR] Sam Rea Line > Listers, > > After reading about the Sam Rea Line in the Keystone, I was thinking about > modeling it for the following reasons. (the below assumes that it was built > in real life) > > 1) It has a 2 track mainline. (a continuous 4 track main is a little hard > to do in HO) > 2) It has grades, tunnels, cross overs with the mail line, an electrified > tunnel with DD-1's (this could be upgraded to over head) > 3) while I can model specific loco's and cars and locations the actual track > work would be as I see fit. > 4)Industries can be whatever I want to put in the town assuming "If you > build it (railroad) they will come (industry)" > > I will now run and hide from the comments. > > Chris Chany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:44:37 -0500 From: jconsoli@paonline.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Stone Bridge Construction Jerry, I have seen on a number (at least of smaller) stone arch bridges, that layers of ties have been laid on top of the stones against the pipe handrails to contain the rising level of the ballast profile. Jack Jerry Britton wrote: > On 3/6/03 11:03 AM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > > > There are two courses of stone block that crown the arches and > > spandrels, each projecting slightly but progressively further outward > > from the bridge centerline. The second-to-top layer of stone is called > > the string course, and the top layer is called the coping. The ballast > > originally was filled in such that the top of the ties lay about level > > with or maybe slightly below the top surface of the coping. > > > > However, as you know, the railroad over the years has built up the > > roadbed with successive rounds of cleaning and raising the ballast. > > Hence my reason for sending this to Dan first, and secondarily to the > list...Dan, I knew you'd come through on this one! > > Regarding the model: It comes with Homabed of the same height as the > string/coping courses. The question was whether or not to place the track > directly on the Homabed/coping or to raise it by the amount of N scale cork > roadbed (about 1/8"). > > I model 1954, so having been in service and reballasted for 52 years, that > amount of raise may be appropriate. > > I have the arches all assembled in place and will soon be adding the coping > course. Once that is glued in place, I'll mock it up both ways and see how > it looks. Putting the cork on top is actually to my advantage, for a variety > of reasons that I won't go into here. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "marlana freitas" Subject: [PRR] baggage cars>westbound Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:26:30 -0500 Group- could the mystery of west moving off road baggage cars be the St. Louis Mail, Train #11? My note on this is a 1920 timetable. Can anyone offer later service dates?? 1920 train is carded for 9:45pm out of NYC--Ar. Pitts.9:20am--Ar. St. Louis 1:15am. In answer to question on RPOs; horizontal poles formed the "pouch racks" that held the bags for mail sorting. Each section on the rack had 4 hooks per bag; as well as a metal 4 inch plate for the card ID tag to destination. Tag was put into metal locking slide clip at top of bag; then set aside for drop enroute, or placed in storage car. Horizontal poles were for the mail handlers to hang the set up bags for clerks as needed; also were a safety hold. Secondly, having worked South Postal in Boston in the late 60's, I found that the holiday season would bring X29, X42,B60,MS60,and B70 types. Late night arrivals from Wash. D.C. & NYC on the weekends would have one crew in an RPO sorting letter and first class parcels, and a second crew in a BM70 type sorting 2nd.,3rd, class mail and parcel post/regular rate. Of interest were the REA cars that came attached to the same train. These were set out at their facility in the other side of the terminal. Weekdays 5-6 cars, with at least 1-2 R50b's. Weekends there about 12 cars total, of which 3-4 would be R50b's. Remember, this was the Xmas season, and it looked like the RR would use what ever was available. MS60's would arrive with a floor load of sorted mail, and REA would get 2-3 per night; weekends there were at least 3>>Wash. D.C., NYC, Chicago, at the minimum. My body aches every time I recall these holiday employment adventures of 62,63,and 64. Retired RPO clerks are the best source of info for the sorting tables/pigeon holes. Working as a mail handler in the terminal did not allow us the privilege of "bothering" the crews. At age 16, any group of men who worked with side arms were not to be disturbed , period... Hope this helps some fill in some missing details. Fred in Vt. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:44:46 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence From: "Douglas Nelson" Hi Jerry: This would be a great project for someone. I think that the stantions could be nicely done in etched brass and then combined with brass wire. Hell Gate Models is pretty busy with our products, but someone should consider taking this on. All that is needed is black and white art work and someone to do the photo etching. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-n_scale , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence >Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2003, 8:19 AM > > I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... > > Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? > > I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the > Rockville Bridge, which did not. > > If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with > piano wire? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Trains web site Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:10:18 +0000 The pictures are now posted of the model of Sodus Point and the prototype pictures. The model is pretty good but the proto pictures are so small that they are virtually useless for modeling purposes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E bay wheel sets Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:13:08 +0000 There are two sets of drivers offered on E bay today. One is supposed to be for a C1 and had about 12 sets with coined or lost wax brass centers and half with drive gears. There is also a set for a K4 that has solid wheels that the spokes show (like they had sheet metal fillers added). though somebody may be interested. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:25:45 -0600 In HO scale a California firm offered these pipe fences in brass several years ago. I think the guy that owned the firm was Hugh Debberthine (sp?). I know he attended the PRRT&HS convention at least once and is probably a society member. Maybe someone could contact him about doing n-scale. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 11:45 PM To: PRR-n_scale; PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence Hi Jerry: This would be a great project for someone. I think that the stantions could be nicely done in etched brass and then combined with brass wire. Hell Gate Models is pretty busy with our products, but someone should consider taking this on. All that is needed is black and white art work and someone to do the photo etching. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: Jerry Britton >To: PRR-n_scale , PRR-Talk LIST >Subject: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence >Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2003, 8:19 AM > > I think I already know the answer to this ("no")... > > Does anyone make two rail PRR pipe fence in N scale? > > I need some for my Sherman's Creek bridge, which did have it, unlike the > Rockville Bridge, which did not. > > If not, has anyone found stanchions that are suitable, perhaps for use with > piano wire? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 09:37:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] PRR Pipe Fence From: Jerry Britton On 3/7/03 9:25 AM, Cadwell, Marvin L (cadwelml@bp.com) wrote: > In HO scale a California firm offered these pipe fences in brass several > years ago. I think the guy that owned the firm was Hugh Debberthine (sp?). > I know he attended the PRRT&HS convention at least once and is probably a > society member. Maybe someone could contact him about doing n-scale. > It was Hugh, and the company was The P Company. I feel confident that he will NOT do the project in N. He ran it in HO and then sold the whole stock to another firm (Pikestuff ?). Eventually it went back to him. A few years back (four or so) I spoke with him and he claimed he still had a garage full of the stuff. Given that, I doubt he would want to invest in N scale! By the way, he did the entire railings. In N scale I think we are best looking at laser etched stanchions for use with user applied wire. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:51:52 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] Trains web site >The pictures are now posted of the model of Sodus Point and the prototype >pictures. The model is pretty good but the proto pictures are so small that >they are virtually useless for modeling purposes. If you click on the pictures, you get a larger, somewhat more useful image. I was able to copy them to disk and get full sized images. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:12:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Railroad Workers Owed Death Benefit PRRT&HS Webmaster Steve Agostini has advised me that beneficiaries of deceased Pennsylvania Railroad workers could be owed $2,000 in life insurance benefits that have gone unpaid. If you are the spouse, child or grandchild of one of the railroad workers on our list, you could be the beneficiary and owed $2,000 in unpaid death benefits. Anyone wishing to find out if they have a claim should contact Treasury's Bureau of Unclaimed Property at 1-800-237-9757, e-mail RailroadWorkers@patreasury.org, or visit the following website: http://patreasury.com/RR/RRList.html A visit to this site revealed several people known to both Steve and myself, and in some cases former members of the PRRT&HS. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:12:40 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] Railroad Workers Owed Death Benefit PRRT&HS Webmaster Steve Agostini has advised me that beneficiaries of deceased Pennsylvania Railroad workers could be owed $2,000 in life insurance benefits that have gone unpaid. If you are the spouse, child or grandchild of one of the railroad workers on our list, you could be the beneficiary and owed $2,000 in unpaid death benefits. Anyone wishing to find out if they have a claim should contact Treasury's Bureau of Unclaimed Property at 1-800-237-9757, e-mail RailroadWorkers@patreasury.org, or visit the following website: http://patreasury.com/RR/RRList.html A visit to this site revealed several people known to both Steve and myself, and in some cases former members of the PRRT&HS. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:16:58 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Historical Society forming From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" All Somewhat off topic, and perhaps out of the area, but I know there are a few P&LE fans out there who might be interested in this newly forming group. If interested, contact Jack Polaritz, one of the driving forces of the group: 8411 St. Peters Lane New Kent, VA 23124-2719 804-932-3264 h 804-310-2700 cell polaritz@stargate.net You can also visit their website: www.plerrhs.org Don Harper Marine Lab Texas A&M Univ. at Galveston Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:22:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > New York on the > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > them east from St. Louis? > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > Eagle out of Fort > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > Pacific train? > Rick--- Good question. My first guess was that the eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the limited collection of timetables and guides that I have seems to indicate that that particular train did not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can be seen at http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's MP car built specifically for the mail/express transport. I had some communication a month or so ago concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is interested in looking at the thread. Ron > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > had several groups of > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > passenger service per > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > we seeing them in PRR > trains? > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these in trains heading either east or west, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the special cars mentioned above. Ron > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > PRR Lines West > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: Re: [PennsyWest] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There is a typo in this communication, the MP mail/express car is not a "70's car" in the sense of being built in the 1970's, but in fact a 70 foot car. According to my MoPac sources, these were build in the 1960's. Sorry. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 14:50:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar From: Jerry Britton InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 AAR 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as how many road numbers are being offered. Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:17:04 -0800 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early 60's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > New York on the > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > them east from St. Louis? > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > Eagle out of Fort > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > Pacific train? > > > Rick--- > Good question. My first guess was that the > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > be seen at > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > interested in looking at the thread. > Ron > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > had several groups of > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > passenger service per > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > we seeing them in PRR > > trains? > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > in trains heading either east or west, but that > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > Rick Tipton > > Louisville KY > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > PRR Lines West > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bennett Levin" Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:17:04 -0800 I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early 60's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald Di Orio" To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > Standard Time, > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > New York on the > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > them east from St. Louis? > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > Eagle out of Fort > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > Pacific train? > > > Rick--- > Good question. My first guess was that the > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > be seen at > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > interested in looking at the thread. > Ron > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > had several groups of > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > passenger service per > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > we seeing them in PRR > > trains? > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > in trains heading either east or west, but that > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > Rick Tipton > > Louisville KY > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > PRR Lines West > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] pardon the interruption Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:57:58 -0500 Hey Nick: Your caseyj@igateway.com got the big bounce. Next week is great - I'll be out and about tomorrow morning - If you need me for a spell give a call - Otherwise I'll be there with bells on next Saturday. Cos Wayne S. Betty Cos Communications, Inc. Small business IT services. Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road NMRA, MER, Susquehanna Div, 11 NHRS, Lancaster & PRRT&HS #7061 http://www.wsbcos.com/trainsmenu.htm at the west end of the PRR electrified zone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:17:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris. I am looking at the SEPT.1981 issue of RAILS NORTHEAST and it has a good drawing of a class BM70M RPO. A good cross section view of both sides of the interior. The black circles are where there is a floor to ceiling pole or as they call them stanchions. They were fitted into a socket in the ceiling with a spring inside of it and you pushed the stanchion up into the socket and then aligned the bottom of the stanchion to a hole in the floor and when you left go of the stanchion, it was pushed down into the floor and held in place by the pressure of the spring of the ceiling socket. This is where sacks of mail would be piled awaiting sorting at one end and a similar section at the other end where sorted mail was stored. The sacks would be piled up laying down,not up right. The car pictured in the 9-81 issue of RNE is PC 28157,ex PRR 6539,ex PRR 5239. This is the ROBERT E HANNIGAN,the only named RPO on the PRR and from what I have seen and the date of rebuild could very well be (in my opinion anyway) the proto type for the later BM70NB that was used on the BROADWAY LIMITED. The HANNIGAN ran regular BROADWAY service for years. This car survives today,although in rather good shape outside,it was modified inside. Most of the interior was removed when the car went into MW use,most likely under PC. Hope this answers your question,along with some other tid bits. Pat McKinney --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris.
        I am looking at the SEPT.1981 iss= ue of RAILS NORTHEAST and it has a good drawing of a class BM70M RPO. A good= cross section view of both sides of the interior. The black circles are whe= re there is a floor to ceiling pole or as they call them stanchions. They we= re fitted into a socket in the ceiling with a spring inside of it and you pu= shed the stanchion up into the socket and then aligned the bottom of the sta= nchion to a hole in the floor and when you left go of the stanchion, it was=20= pushed down into the floor and held in place by the pressure of the spring o= f the ceiling socket. This is where sacks of mail would be piled awaiting so= rting at one end and a similar section at the other end where sorted mail wa= s stored. The sacks would be piled up laying down,not up right.
  The car pictured in the 9-81 issue of RNE is PC 28157,ex PRR 6539,ex=20= PRR 5239.
This is the ROBERT E HANNIGAN,the only named RPO on the PRR and from what I=20= have seen and the date of rebuild could very well be (in my opinion anyway)=20= the proto type for the later BM70NB that was used on the BROADWAY LIMITED. T= he HANNIGAN ran regular BROADWAY service for years.
   This car survives today,although in rather good shape outside,i= t was modified inside. Most of the interior was removed when the car went in= to MW use,most likely under PC. Hope this answers your question,along with s= ome other tid bits.

Pat McKinney --part1_1d4.4a3820e.2b9abac6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:54:25 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station I have commissioned a painting of the Wilmington, DE PRR station during the time (1969-1970) when I routinely commuted between Wilmington and New York or Philadelphia. I seem to remember 5 stripe GG-1's. Is this a figment of my imagination? If 5 stripe GG-1's were around in 1969, does anyone have any ideas as to what numbers would be appropriate? Would they have had the high intake vents. What are the chances that a train would have had doubleheaded 5 stripe GG-1's? I also seem to remember freights running through the station rather than using the Shellpot cutoff. Would it have been more likely that a freight train was doubleheaded than a passenger train? John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:26:03 -0600 Hi Jerry--You wrote: > > InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 AAR > 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. > > I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as > how many road numbers are being offered. > > Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? > Too bad. Here we go again. PRR had no "1937 AAR 40' Boxcars." The nearest class would be X37, but notice I said "nearest" not "close". There were significant differences in major details like the roof and side panels as well as minor detail differences. See the Keystone Dec 1981 p. 22. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:21:15 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] K-3s Ron, list, Aside from the long-out-of-production Cary boiler, N&W modeler Jim Teese authored a series on N&W's E-3 class Pacifics. Why am I mentioning the N&W? These Pacifics were former PRR K3s class engines sold to the N&W in 1930. Series appeared in Model Railroading Magazine. November and December 1994 have prototype information (covers the PRR slightly; focuses mainly on their time on the N&W). January-March 1995 MRG covers kitbashing the E-3 from a Bachmann/Spectrum K4s by shortening the firebox and changing the cab. N&W used entirely different tenders (as well as myriad other detail changes), but this could get you started on a layout-quality K3s; the boiler will be tapered (as opposed to nearly straight on the real K3s engines) and there will be some discrepancies in the valve gear. Doug --- Ronald Di Orio wrote: > Great information on building a K-5s from other kit > components. Anyone have any ideas on building a > K-3s > in HO? From what I can see, it looks like the major > components would have to be scratched. Ron > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 07:39:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar From: Jerry Britton On 3/7/03 11:26 PM, "Steve Hoxie" wrote: >> InterMountain has announced that later this month they will ship a "1937 > AAR >> 40' Boxcar" in PRR livery -- in both N and HO scales. >> >> I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well > as >> how many road numbers are being offered. >> >> Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? >> > Too bad. Here we go again. PRR had no "1937 AAR 40' Boxcars." The nearest > class would be X37, but notice I said "nearest" not "close". There were > significant differences in major details like the roof and side panels as > well as minor detail differences. See the Keystone Dec 1981 p. 22. > Thanks, Steve! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR K4 to K5 conversion Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:07:43 -0500 Group, I approached Bowser with this conversion... Read on... Sam Vastano Hank, Looks Like we might have a chance.... thanks for the info. I will look into this. Thank You Lee English Web Site http://www.bowser-trains.com Bowser Mfg PO Box 322 1302 Jordan Ave Montoursville PA 17754 570-368-2379 570-368-5046 Fax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: Hank Mummert's K4 to K5 conversion parts list > > >Mr English, > >Thought you might find this interesting. All Bowser or Cary parts. Here is >the link to a website http://www.crispen.org/SV/k4_to_k5.html > >Mabe someday we will see this in a kit form directly from you. > >Thanks > >Sam Vastano > >From: "SM" >Reply-To: "SM" >To: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: PRR K4 to K5 conversion >Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:53:29 -0500 > >Hi.... > > Sure no problem. If they get interested in it, somehow >i hope to find out where Joe Zappa is and perhaps >get the one i built from him. Else wise either they would >have to build one or they could have me build one. > >One thorny possible problem would be if Joe Zappa >gives them a problem over it. But the best i know >it was never copied, marketed or even copy righted. >He had rushed me a little to get it done for the >PRRT&HS national meeting that year so he could >show it there, but from what i've heard he never >did. Also he has the N-8 pilot model i made >(along with one of my own and a pair of trucks >from another car i have).I Never got any of that >stuff back. > >I still have my copies of the parts list and drawings >and the copies of the royalty agreement for >Liberty Models. I also still have the pictures i took >of it.I guess you'll have to let Lee >English know about this and see what he says. >I don't really think that it would be a problem >though as it was THEIR parts that were modified. >Another one might be better anyway. I learned a >lot from that one and would probably do better >with the next one, although that one was near >perfect. I also now have my Westside K-5 to >compare it to. > >Write me back and let me know what developes. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:31:12 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All, I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just knocked me out when I saw it. The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:31:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All, I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just knocked me out when I saw it. The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There was also an Eastbound "Mail" Train # 10, which ran just ahead of or followed #s 54-32 with many foreign bags. I used to ride #54-32 east from Lancaster to N, Phila frequently during 1966 and 1967 and would see the mail train while waiting for # 54-32. Also during this time frame, # 54-32 sleeping cars were frequently leased Southern Pacific sleepers. This was just before the sleeper line from St. Louis was dropped, and the diner-lounge was replaced by the snack bar coach. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early > 60's. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR > Fax" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > > > > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > > New York on the > > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > > them east from St. Louis? > > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > > Eagle out of Fort > > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > > Pacific train? > > > > > Rick--- > > Good question. My first guess was that the > > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > > be seen at > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > > interested in looking at the thread. > > Ron > > > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > > had several groups of > > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > > passenger service per > > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > > we seeing them in PRR > > > trains? > > > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > > in trains heading either east or west, but that > > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > > > Rick Tipton > > > Louisville KY > > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > > PRR Lines West > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Joe Witcofsky Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 There was also an Eastbound "Mail" Train # 10, which ran just ahead of or followed #s 54-32 with many foreign bags. I used to ride #54-32 east from Lancaster to N, Phila frequently during 1966 and 1967 and would see the mail train while waiting for # 54-32. Also during this time frame, # 54-32 sleeping cars were frequently leased Southern Pacific sleepers. This was just before the sleeper line from St. Louis was dropped, and the diner-lounge was replaced by the snack bar coach. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bennett Levin" To: "Ronald Di Orio" ; ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR Fax" ; "PRR Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early > 60's. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ronald Di Orio" > To: ; "Pennsy West" ; "PRR > Fax" ; "PRR Talk" > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #13 > > > > > > --- RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/4/03 7:01:57 AM Eastern > > > Standard Time, > > > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > > > > > > > One puzzle -- if MoPac cars are traveling west from > > > New York on the > > > much-photographed #13, what PRR train is bringing > > > them east from St. Louis? > > > And do they reach there on the MoP on the Texas > > > Eagle out of Fort > > > Worth/Dallas, or on another Texas Pacific/Missouri > > > Pacific train? > > > > > Rick--- > > Good question. My first guess was that the > > eastbound train would be number 14, but a look at the > > limited collection of timetables and guides that I > > have seems to indicate that that particular train did > > not originate in St. Louis. However, I can personally > > attest to seeing MoPac cars in eastbound trains during > > the sixties go through Burgettstown. One type of car > > I remember in particular (because it was unusual) can > > be seen at > > http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-e149.jpg, a 70's > > MP car built specifically for the mail/express > > transport. I had some communication a month or so ago > > concerning these cars on the MoPac list if anyone is > > interested in looking at the thread. > > Ron > > > > > Another puzzle -- if the MoP and the Texas Pacific > > > had several groups of > > > express boxcars (10' IH freight boxes converted for > > > passenger service per > > > Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #6 (RPC6), why aren't > > > we seeing them in PRR > > > trains? > > > > > > Unfortunately, cannot remember seeing any of these > > in trains heading either east or west, but that > > doesn't mean they weren't there. I do remember seeing > > regular MoPac Baggage cars, however, along with the > > special cars mentioned above. Ron > > > > > Rick Tipton > > > Louisville KY > > > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially > > > PRR Lines West > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:56:41 -0500 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmington Station As I recall, the only possible GG-1with 5 stripe paint, 1969-1970 would be the 4801 which was strictly used in freight service at that time. The era you describe was early PC and most GG-1s were single stripe with the Keystone painted out and PC decaled on. As I recall 4801 was extremely weathered, but never repainted for some reason, known only to Joe Kepner (Wilm Loco Shop Supt). Freight trains did operate through Wilmington Stationon a regular basis, with multiple consists of 2 or more GG-1s. Some passenger trains also had more than one, although one was commonplace. JW ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ryan" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station > I have commissioned a painting of the Wilmington, DE PRR station during > the time (1969-1970) when I routinely commuted between Wilmington and > New York or Philadelphia. > > I seem to remember 5 stripe GG-1's. Is this a figment of my > imagination? If 5 stripe GG-1's were around in 1969, does anyone have > any ideas as to what numbers would be appropriate? Would they have had > the high intake vents. What are the chances that a train would have had > doubleheaded 5 stripe GG-1's? > > I also seem to remember freights running through the station rather than > using the Shellpot cutoff. Would it have been more likely that a > freight train was doubleheaded than a passenger train? > > John Ryan > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ed Casey" Subject: [PRR] PRR S12 Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:05:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a newcomer to US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, repainting an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of PRR S12s, but can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they brunswick green , black or a different shade?? Also, can anyone recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off scratchbuilding them?? And last but not least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst regearing kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or similar?? Thanks very much for any help anyone can give Ed Casey ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I am a = newcomer to=20 US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, = repainting an=20 Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of PRR = S12s, but=20 can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they = brunswick green=20 , black or a different shade??
Also, = can anyone=20 recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off = scratchbuilding=20 them??
And = last but not=20 least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst = regearing=20 kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or=20 similar??
 
Thanks = very much for=20 any help anyone can give
 
Ed=20 Casey
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2E584.35F3A940-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:02:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Wilmington Station Joe,John and list, Only two GG1s in the 5 stripe scheme made it to the PC merger. 4801 and 4804. GG1 4801 was the only Penn Central G to have the 5 stripe and PC logos. That lasted to 1971. Hope this helps. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Al Buchan Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:05:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] E-Store RFP Addendum E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ADDENDUM This is an addendum to the E-Store RFP sent out on March 6, 2003. 1. Alternative Methods of Operation All interested parties should address all or any of the following e-store operation alternatives. Alternative 1. Society obtains a merchant's account (Visa-MasterCard, etc.) and operates the e-store (handling both orders and monies), while contractor/vendor maintains the store's presence on the screen, i.e. describing, showing and keeping product info up to date, etc. Alternative 2. Contractor/vendor handles everything, except the actual fulfilling of orders. In this alternative the Society would do order picking and shipping upon notification from contractor/vendor of a successful credit transaction. Alternative 3. Contractor/vendor handles everything. Society periodically ships contractor/vendor a supply of its products as required. The Society will also entertain any other alternatives the contractor/vendor may want to offer. 2. Deadline for Submission Although proposals are not due until April 25, 2003, an earlier submission is encouraged as it would permit a more timely discussion and resolution of questions and/or other issues. Al Buchan 785 Cornwallis Drive Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209 abbuchan1@comcast.net "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:05:44 -0500 From: Al Buchan Subject: [PRR] E-Store RFP Addendum E-STORE REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL ADDENDUM This is an addendum to the E-Store RFP sent out on March 6, 2003. 1. Alternative Methods of Operation All interested parties should address all or any of the following e-store operation alternatives. Alternative 1. Society obtains a merchant's account (Visa-MasterCard, etc.) and operates the e-store (handling both orders and monies), while contractor/vendor maintains the store's presence on the screen, i.e. describing, showing and keeping product info up to date, etc. Alternative 2. Contractor/vendor handles everything, except the actual fulfilling of orders. In this alternative the Society would do order picking and shipping upon notification from contractor/vendor of a successful credit transaction. Alternative 3. Contractor/vendor handles everything. Society periodically ships contractor/vendor a supply of its products as required. The Society will also entertain any other alternatives the contractor/vendor may want to offer. 2. Deadline for Submission Although proposals are not due until April 25, 2003, an earlier submission is encouraged as it would permit a more timely discussion and resolution of questions and/or other issues. Al Buchan 785 Cornwallis Drive Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3209 abbuchan1@comcast.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Subject: Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:28:59 -0600 Hi All. I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > Hi All, > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just > knocked me out when I saw it. > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PennsyNut" Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:28:59 -0600 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Hi All. I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist PRRTHS #1204 and SPF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Lane" To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" ; "PRR Fax" Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > Hi All, > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the evolution > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This just > knocked me out when I saw it. > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have survived > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking about > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to do. > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > Thanks > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 20:46:22 +0000 There are two hole clipboards that have the holes at the top that might work if the hole centers are at the right locations. > Hi All. > > I know it's a major project, but is it possible that this stuff could be > loaded/copied or whatever on Rob's Site? > > IMHO it sounds like the ideal place for that kind of information. But I > also know what a huge project it can be to scan millions of pages of data. > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist > PRRTHS #1204 and SPF > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Lane" > To: "PRR Talk" ; "Steam Era Freight cars" > ; "PRR Fax" > Sent: Saturday, 08 March, 2003 07:31 > Subject: [PRR] New topic - PRR List Of Tracings book > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have just received 2 books that I consider to be a MAJOR addition to my > > collection. The first is a collection of PRR lists of tracings for MANY > > freight cars. It is 1 1/2" thick. Additionally, it is somewhat the > evolution > > of the car, because it lists by year, the later drawings produced. This > just > > knocked me out when I saw it. > > > > The second book is a collection of the lists of tracings for many (maybe > > all) freight car trucks. These are all instrumental in getting copies of > > drawings from the PA State archives that may not be in the database. > > > > Finally, I have a question. Both of these books were assembled by the PRR > > for use in a shop. One has "E W Fox" on the opening page. They have > survived > > very well because of a heavy canvas cover on both, which incidentally are > > pretty crusty. They are also bolted together with 1/4-20 screws. The car > > book has 2 bolts at the top, making it a flip over book. I am thinking > about > > putting them in a loose leaf book to make each page more accessible, but > > that that would compromise that originality of what I think it are major > > surviving PRR artifacts. I am looking for a little consensus on what to > do. > > I would have to punch holes in the side of both books for the loose leaf. > > > > Thanks > > Bill > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals? Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 17:10:15 -0600 I really like my Genesis F7s, and am itching for some F3's with chicken wire. Since it is anybody's guess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer these, I'd like to build some myself. However, does anybody make decals in the proper width and color for the "as delivered" scheme? Thanks, Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:08:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] 1937 AAR 40' Boxcar --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry and all, Who knows but whatever they call it, it will be wrong! Greg Martin > I have a query in to IM as to what class these are lettered for, as well as > how many road numbers are being offered. > > Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be? > --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry and all,

Who knows but whatever they call it, it will be wrong!

Greg Martin


I have a query in to IM as to w= hat class these are lettered for, as well as
how many road numbers are being offered.

Can any of you venture a guess as to what these might be?


 --part1_3c.2cf2e7fd.2b9c344c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:59:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals? --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy and all, You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. To answer your question regarding the correct width 2-inch stripes, the answer is no and the contact I had at Microscale that brought us the new boxcar decals and was going to correct the F unit set is now gotten the corporate BOOT! So we are on our own for a while, or until I can develop a relationship with the new guy. The one instrumental man at ATHEARN who I worked with on the PRR units and was making ready the F3s has also been afforded UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE by the COCA_COLA GANG/JOHN DEERE BOYS/READY-to-ROLL KIDS at Athearn. Greg Martin > I really like my Genesis F7s, and am itching for some F3s with chicken wire. > Since it is anybody's guess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer > these, I'd like to build some myself. However, does anybody make decals in > the proper width and color for the "as delivered" scheme? > > Thanks, > > Andy Cich > --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy and all,

You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to of= fer a "chicken wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and letteri= ng of the units and I have agreed.  I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKE= D this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed through on the Paint an= d Lettering of the Genesis units.

To answer your question regarding the correct width 2-inch stripes, the answ= er is no and the contact I had at Microscale that brought us the new boxcar=20= decals and was going to correct the F unit set is now gotten the corporate B= OOT!  So we are on our own for a while, or until I can develop a relati= onship with the new guy.  The one instrumental man at ATHEARN who I wor= ked with on the PRR units and was making ready the F3s has also been afforde= d UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE by the COCA_COLA GANG/JOHN DEERE BOYS/READY-to-ROLL= KIDS at Athearn.

Greg Martin


I really like my Genesis F7s, a= nd am itching for some F3s with chicken wire.  Since it is anybody's gu= ess as to how long it will take Athearn to offer these, I'd like to build so= me myself.  However, does anybody make decals in the proper width and c= olor for the "as delivered" scheme?

Thanks,

Andy Cich


 --part1_10.2dbd9193.2b9c4051_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "PGrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR S12 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:34:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageEd, Any Walthers dealer would be able to get the re-gearing kit, they should = also be able to get the DGLE you need (Badger 16-16), and the Microscale = transfers. There is a Stewart version of the S12 which is a far better = model but it is about =A385 to buy here in the UK. Try LSWR models, they = advertise in Continental Modeller... Patrick Grace PS are you coming to Alexandra Palace? www.prr.org.uk ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Casey=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 3:05 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR S12 I am a newcomer to US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project = I am detailing, repainting an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good = deal of b/w photos of PRR S12s, but can't work out exactly what colour = they were painted. Were they brunswick green , black or a different = shade??=20 Also, can anyone recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I = better off scratchbuilding them?? And last but not least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can = buy the Ernst regearing kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an = online store or similar?? Thanks very much for any help anyone can give Ed Casey ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Ed,
 
Any Walthers dealer would be able to = get the=20 re-gearing kit, they should also be able to get the DGLE you need = (Badger=20 16-16), and the Microscale transfers. There is a Stewart version of the = S12=20 which is a far better model but it is about =A385 to buy here in the UK. = Try LSWR=20 models, they advertise in Continental Modeller...
 
Patrick Grace
 
PS are you coming to Alexandra = Palace?
 
www.prr.org.uk
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Casey
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 = 3:05=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] PRR S12

I am = a newcomer to=20 US modelling and the PRR, and for my first project I am detailing, = repainting=20 an Athearn S12. I've gathered together a good deal of b/w photos of = PRR S12s,=20 but can't work out exactly what colour they were painted. Were they = brunswick=20 green , black or a different shade??
Also, can anyone=20 recommend any detailing parts for the S12, or am I better off = scratchbuilding=20 them??
And = last but not=20 least, I have so far failed to locate somewhere I can buy the Ernst = regearing=20 kits (being in the UK) - does anyone know of an online store or=20 similar??
 
Thanks very much=20 for any help anyone can give
 
Ed=20 Casey
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C2E616.A7C1CC40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:13 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MoPac baggage on #32 the St. Louisan In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania > Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's > early > 60's. > Thanks, Bennett. Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them. I was either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main when 32 passed through. An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound. I figure the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at St. Louis. So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a third through passenger train. One can only guess that one of the other westbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis. Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units available to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction. For example, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, but only 14 eastbound. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:13 EST Subject: [PRR] MoPac baggage on #32 the St. Louisan --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: > I seem to recall and I believe I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I > think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania > Limited. > It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's > early > 60's. > Thanks, Bennett. Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them. I was either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main when 32 passed through. An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound. I figure the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at St. Louis. So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a third through passenger train. One can only guess that one of the other westbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis. Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units available to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction. For example, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, but only 14 eastbound. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/7/03 6:17:52 PM Eastern Standard=20= Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes:


I seem to recall and I believe=20= I have movies of the MP cars on 32-54 (I
think those are the numbers), the combined St Louisan, Pennsylvania Limited.=
It was an afternoon eastbound depature from Lewistown in the late 50's early=
60's.


Thanks, Bennett.  Number 32 (the St. Louisan) sounds like a logical way= to sneak these eastward through Dayton without me seeing them.  I was=20= either still asleep or in school up the hill out of sight of the Pennsy main= when 32 passed through.

An interesting scheduling quirk -- we had 30/31 the Spirit of St. Louis and=20= 3/4 the Penn Texas running both ways, but only #32 eastbound.  I figure= the driver here was making connections for sleepers and headend traffic at=20= St. Louis.  So eastbound, these must have come together to spell a thir= d through passenger train.  One can only guess that one of the other we= stbounds covered an extra departure at St. Louis.

Lest our readers conclude that there was an endless fount of E units availab= le to the Pennsy in St. Louis, I believe that at least some of the time our=20= mail and express trains were unbalanced in the other direction.  For ex= ample, Western Region ETT No. 1 (Oct 25, 1964) carded 7 and 13 westbound, bu= t only 14 eastbound.

Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_b6.1998061f.2b9c8fb5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:28 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Some verbal history - Cincinnati Gentlemen, I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone article, "The PRR in Cincinnati". I found it in my records of past messages, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originator was (Marty?). If he would identify himself and give me permission to quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it. <> Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 07:38:28 EST Subject: [PRR] Some verbal history - Cincinnati --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone article, "The PRR in Cincinnati". I found it in my records of past messages, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originator was (Marty?). If he would identify himself and give me permission to quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it. <> Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen,

I'd love to use the following as verbal history in the upcoming Keystone art= icle, "The PRR in Cincinnati".  I found it in my records of past messag= es, but it has been commented upon enough times I'm unsure who the originato= r was (Marty?).  If he would identify himself and give me permission to= quote this verbatim, I'd appreciate it.

<<Let me start.

My first real job with the Pennsy was in Cincinnati. I was transferred in from an Apprentice position in Buffalo on 6/1/61 and was promoted out to Indianapolis on 11/1/62 (I am using notes, my memory isn't that good any more).

While the trains and operating types were at the station, the administrative=
offices were downtown in the Swift Building, 230 East 9th Street. I believe=20=
this building is now the hq for the public school system. It is located, IIRC, sort of around the corner from the stadium that was built downtown what, in the late 70s?

There was a freight house near the river and the PRR stored old, old stuff <= BR> there. I've always wondered what happened to the company reords/material tha= t
most have been forgotten in the old storage facilities. The Ohio River
flooded in 1936 and, whenever I needed an old file
(1945 to 1955) and it couldn't be found, the answer always was, "It must hav= e
gone down the river in '36." If it is your first time to Cincinnati, be sure=
to have someone show you the high water mark on the telephone building.

Speaking of records, it was in Cincinnati that I first began to initiate and=
handle correspondence that actually became part of files. I was introduced t= o
a couple of conventions that must confuse some collectors of Pennsy records.=
There was a period, 10 - 20 years, when internal correspondence was addresse= d
to recipients only by their three initials and never by name. Two or three <= BR> page letters/memos were NEVER stapled or paper clipped but the pages held together with a straight pin.

Finally, I recall an interchange with the Leaky and Nasty in their yard
(Decourcy Yard?) on the Kentucky side of the Ohio. I used to take an
afternoon off now and then and go out and "play" trains. I remember riding a=
yard engine pulling a draft to drop off at the L&N and having the engine= er
stop while going across a one track (as I remember it) bridge at a wooden shack, probably a 'phone shack, on the side of the bridge. He stopped at the=
shack and told me it was a toll gate and that I had to pay a nickel toll so=20=
the draft could continue. College boys were fair game. I flipped a nickel in=
the shed and we continued.

Regards, Marty>>


Rick Tipton
Louisville KY
Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West <= /HTML> --part1_de.3561fc18.2b9c8fc4_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:46:13 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABIN HANDRAIL PAINTING QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walter Prusick" Subject: [PRR] EP20 from Con Cor E7 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 14:54:09 -0500 Gentlemen, Recently purchased a few Con Cor E7 shells, which I will use to cover a quite a few Athearn PAs which landed in my lap. My thinking was to marry the drives to the shells and viola! Now I find that the distance between the trucks is quite different between the EMD and AlCo units. My question is, which (if any) of the Athearn frames comes closest to the truck spacing on a EP20. (I guess what started this is the recent discussion concerning the similarities between the trucks.) Any direction will be appreciated. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:38:59 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Nickel silver round stock Hi all, I am in the market for some nickel silver round stock up to 3/16" dia. I only need about 12 to 24 inches of it. Any suggestions for a supplier? Perhaps you have some in your scrap box. Let me know what you have. Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 17:18:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] EP20 from Con Cor E7 --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, You can get a Proto Power West frame for the Con Cor E7. It is the alternative to the Con Cor frame. Greg Martin --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt,

You can get a Proto Power West frame for the Con Cor E7. It is the alternati= ve to the Con Cor frame.

Greg  Martin --part1_93.2b994919.2b9d17cc_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] RPO Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:27:57 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The spring 93 Keystone has just about anything you need to know to = detail an RPO.=20 So,from previous posts you guys are saying that BCW makes a good kit, = ECW does not make an RPO or BM and Rivarrossi/AHM 72ft arch roof is good = for the non-purist. Does BCW have current stock?? Website ?? lah ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The spring 93 Keystone has just about = anything you=20 need to know to detail
an RPO.
So,from previous posts you guys are = saying that BCW=20 makes a good kit, ECW
does not make an RPO or BM  and = Rivarrossi/AHM=20 72ft arch roof is good for
the non-purist.  Does BCW have = current stock??=20  Website ??
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C2E67A.5F2EDAE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "L. Heintz" Subject: [PRR] Re : Sodus Coal Trestle Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:15:52 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My friend Harold Russell did the drawings for that article but did not = do the text. Harold lives about 30 miles from Sodus but I wonder what the = proximity=20 is of the writer to Sodus. Harold said if any members have questions = they=20 can email him at : haroldrussell@juno.com=20 lah ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My friend Harold Russell did the = drawings for that=20 article but did not do the
text. Harold lives about 30 miles from = Sodus but I=20 wonder what the proximity
is of the writer to Sodus.  = Harold said=20 if any members have questions they
can email him at :   =  haroldrussell@juno.com&= nbsp;
lah
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C2E689.726317C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 22:03:13 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Douglas Nelson" The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:20:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 1:03 AM, "Douglas Nelson" wrote: > The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. > I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. > Doug: Though the ad may have just appeared, this was actually announced about two years ago. There will be two road numbers -- #6175 and #6131. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:27:08 -0500 Subject: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: Jerry Britton With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. This document, broken down by division, lists all of the locomotives assigned to it, by road number. This form is very useful to modelers in determining the appropriateness of a newly announced model to the division you are depicting. You can quickly determine if your division had any of the units in question and, if they did, what road numbers they were. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:52:42 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's Norm asks: >I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 >and >as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop >coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and >outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop >off >the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight >accross and >repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell I would have to agree that it doesn't look like that hard a "bash"...one reason I haven't made a bigger fuss about BLI's mix up with numbers . The funny thing is that I've never seen the bash described anywhere. You could certainly do it on the IHC Premier GG1. I'm waiting to see how the BLI GG1 goes together to see if it would be easier to simply make one pilot and cast it to replace the pilots on a "fleet" or if it will be necessary to modify each one. Better still would be if BLI came out with the flat pilot version! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Train Antennae and system Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Train Antennae and system Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Older PRR locomotives Any suggestions on commonly available HO steam locomotives readily convertible to older PRR prototypes? Specifically, older B,D,E,F,G and H classes, especially those that may have run on Panhandle rails between Pittsburgh and Mingo Junction. I have been told that the MDC/Roundhouse E-6 is undersize--is it close to one of the previous E classes? Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:04:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 1:52 PM, Ronald Di Orio (prr2249@yahoo.com) wrote: > Anyone know the date the train telephone system was > installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of > the Panhandle? There must be a date before > installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would > have the antennae, another period where you would see > some with and some without, and a final date where all > locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the > railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron > I don't have a direct answer for you, but clues would be contained in the "MP229 Assignment of Locomotives" documents. The listing of locos for each division indicates which have trainphones or radios. This morning I posted a 1954 edition to Keystone Crossings. Right underneath the link to the file for the 1954 edition are links to 1944 and 1957 editions on other sites. I doubt there was ever a time when all locos in a division were so equipped. Hope this helps! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Di Orio Subject: [PRR] Panhandle locomotives Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ronald Di Orio Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Panhandle locomotives Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:26:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: Jerry Britton A few years back Key Imports announced (but has yet to produce) a rerun of H8 / H9 / H10 locomotives in N scale. I did some brief research at the time, to see which would be appropriate for my "Eastern Region" layout. >From very basic sources, I came to the conclusion that the H8's and H10's were "Lines West" locomotives, so I didn't plan on ordering these locomotives. While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division. Guess I better get my name into the queue in case these are ever made! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:38:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: Jerry Britton On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:44:28 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith" Subject: [PRR] H27 Okay campers, Has anyone here attempted a PRR H27? I had one of those "danger" moments last night while looking for something else in Pennsy Power III, and I came accross the photo of the only (?) offset PRR hopper, the 6 bay H27! A neat car at 90 tons, and 50.5' coupled length. I know that there is a photo in Teichmoeller's book. I wonder how easy the car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:31:11 -0600 After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:21:49 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:34:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Friends:
 
How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!
 
Lew
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve=20 Hoxie
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM
Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)

Greg wrote--
>
>You might want=20 to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a = "chicken=20 >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the=20 units and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real = NIT-PICKED this=20 time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint = and=20 Lettering of the Genesis units.
>
Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell = them, it=20 will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners=20 shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. 
 
What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. 
 
IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in = Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads = besides=20 Pennsy, is wide open.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:37:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going = to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint = and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be a = real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. = If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice = model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I can come up = with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from Stewart. I can = do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our F3 cup already = runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a couple = of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but = that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg wrote--
>
>You might want to=20 hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken = >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the units=20 and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this = time and=20 not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and = Lettering of=20 the Genesis units.
>
Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts = with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, = it will=20 be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I=20 can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from=20 Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our=20 F3 cup already runneth over. 
 
What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. 
 
IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3 would=20 compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy = colors=20 (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads besides = Pennsy,=20 is wide open.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

 ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:51:32 -0600 Steve wrote-- I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Steve, What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] H10s on Lines East Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:20:36 -0500 The Long Island Rail Road's 100-series 2-8-0's were H10's as well. Can't get any further East than that! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "'Jerry Britton'" ; "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM o: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Railway Express X29 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Railway Express X29 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:36:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? Dick, I suggest looking at the many color photos in the fantasic color books that have been published in recent years to have your questions answered.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:39:30 -0600 Subject: [PRR] Brake test air line question From: William Ayers I was just studying a yard map of the Crestline facility and in several locations there are air lines for testing the air brakes on trains prior to leaving the yard. Some of these pipes are in rather remote locations, not near the roundhouse or any other out building of any consequence. In any busy terminal, quite a few number of trains would be leaving at any given time, and it seems that there would be a large demand for compressed air. My question is, what sort of compressor was generally used, and where would it be located, and would it be dedicated to air brake testing, or a general supply of air for other purposes as well? TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:40:10 -0500 From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] nickel silver round stock found Hi All, I found and ordered the nickel silver round stock here. www.houseoftools.com I am making custom tender drawbar pins. My J-1 has a 210F84 tender that is a larger diameter then all previous tenders. SO, I need different pins for the 2 extra tenders I bought to put them in general service. Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:35:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry & List. I can not recall where I read it but I thought that the H8 class was built by Juniata. All the sub-classes were H8 upgrades and conversions. The H9 class were all converted from some H8 & H8 sub-classes. I think some of the H8 class or a sub-class were built by one of the other builders of which I do not recall. The H10 was a Lines west design when built as they had centered headlights and extensions on the tender coal bunker sides. Juniata, Baldwin & Lima built H10's. Some of H9 classes & H8 classes were rebuilt into H10's also. All were scattered over the system due to WWII demands. The front ends of the Lines West style H10's losing that identity to the Std Lines East style during some period but do know when. Pat McKinney --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry & List.
    I can not recall where I read it but I thought that the H= 8 class was built by Juniata. All the sub-classes were H8 upgrades and conve= rsions. The H9 class were all converted from some H8 & H8 sub-classes. I= think some of the H8 class or a sub-class were built by one of the other bu= ilders of which I do not recall.
  The H10 was a Lines west design when built as they had centered headl= ights and extensions on the tender coal bunker sides. Juniata, Baldwin &= Lima built H10's. Some of H9 classes & H8 classes were rebuilt into H10= 's also. All were scattered over the system due to WWII demands. The front e= nds of the Lines West style H10's losing that identity to the Std Lines East= style during some period but do know when.

Pat McKinney --part1_11e.1f329289.2b9e9760_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:37:26 EST Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad. Thanks in advance, Chris Baker #1918 --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What's wrong with the Atlas FP7??  I'm curious as= I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all proble= ms before I put it on my railroad.

Thanks in advance,
Chris Baker #1918 --part1_7d.3635ada8.2b9e97d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:38:49 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2003 7:35:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the > Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form > MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it changes to "done", and the screen stays blank. I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files. Any ideas? --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/10/2003 7:35:03 AM Eastern Standa= rd Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes:


With credit to Doug Kisala (for= providing a photocopy), I have posted to the
Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form
MP229, Assignment of Locomotives.

Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not se= e anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it=20= changes to "done", and the screen stays blank.

I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files.

Any ideas?


 --part1_22.376a22d5.2b9e9829_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:58:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2003 8:38:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, LeeRainey writes: Cancel this inquiry! I licked it. What a fantastic tool! Lee Rainey > > >> With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to >> the >> Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form >> MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. >> > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 3/10/2003 8:38:49 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, LeeRainey writes:

Cancel this inquiry! I licked it. What a fantastic tool!

Lee Rainey


With credit to Doug Kisala (for= providing a photocopy), I have posted to the
Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form
MP229, Assignment of Locomotives.

Is there a trick to opening or downloading this?


 --part1_f.c40a9cd.2b9e9cd5_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] H27 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:12:23 -0500 Bruce F. Smith asked: I wonder how easy the [Class H27] car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? There's a picture of a conversion based on the Athearn offset quad that Dick Flock did some time back on page 150 of Teichmoeller. Looks like the main work for this conversion consists of: - Lengthening the body; - Converting the offset taper from stepped to long; - Modifying the hoppers to match the six bay configuration; - Modeling the prototype's cast bolster assembly (similar to those found on Class H30/H32 covered hoppers) - Modifying the ends with three "H25 type" end verticals The Athearn offset quad provides the base body, and a total of three bodies will provide the three paired hoppers for the six bays. The side rivet patterns don't match exactly, but they do exhibit the double rows and 11 ribs of the prototype. The offset taper will have to be changed - the trick is to change the taper and add 5 feet on each end to get a 47 ft IL car. I'd have to check the Stewart offset triple if it can provide the extra length - it does have the long taper. The prototype does have a riveted steel strip running above the hoppers - matching this should hide the surgery producing the six hopper bays. I'd model a load to avoid having to match the interior. The bolsters look like a reasonable scratchbuilding project - I'm having trouble with stealing them from a resin H30 kit for a single car, and I'm hesitant to attempt ordering individual parts from Funaro. The "H25 type" end verticals should be easy to match. Now you've got ME wanting to try this kitbash! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] Withers Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 8: GP7s & GP9s Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:43:14 -0600 I was over at Withers web site, and in the "What's New" section I noticed they have the book I referred to in the subject line listed. Scheduled delivery is 7/18/03. I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet so I thought I'd bring it up. Andy Cich ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:44:42 -0600 Andy Cich asked-- > > What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 > variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. > I use Champ EH-78F. I know they are slightly too wide, but it was all we had until Microscale came out with their latest, but they aren't perfect either. Maybe the situation will get better, but with Champ's impending demise, probably not. It is a forced compromise. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:58:01 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Baker asked-- > >What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by = happenstance and would like >to correct any and all problems before I = put it on my railroad. > I have one, too. The Atlas/ER FP7 was great in 1980. Now it suffers = from our seeing how good Stewart, Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it. = The cab windshields are the wrong shape, the small details lack the = sharpness of current models, and the design at the rear of the shell = makes it nearly impossible to close couple. Depending on which version = you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be added. The pilot must also be = replaced but that is now relatively simple with the IM part. No doubt = others can add to this list. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris Baker asked--
>
>What's wrong with the Atlas = FP7??  I'm=20 curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like >to correct = any and=20 all problems before I put it on my railroad.
>
I have one, too.  The Atlas/ER FP7 = was great=20 in 1980.  Now it suffers from our seeing how good Stewart,=20 Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it.  The cab windshields are the = wrong=20 shape, the small details lack the sharpness of current models, and the = design at=20 the rear of the shell makes it nearly impossible to close couple. =20 Depending on which version you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be=20 added.  The pilot must also be replaced but that is now relatively = simple=20 with the IM part.  No doubt others can add to this = list.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


 ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01C2E760.E1C05470-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:45:32 EST Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Hoxie write... > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. If > IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice model. > But do we really need another chicken wire F 3? > What I need is a really good FP-7. > IM surely realizes that their doing the F 3 would compete directly with > Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not > yet). The FP-7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide open. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL Steve, I understand, but the F 3 was their idea and not mine. But I will say that on our last survey I handed over to Ed Ryan before he left Athearn it was dead even with F 3 phase 2 early and the F 7 phase 1. I just agreed to help. I want to improve their understanding of the PRR's paint colors and correct the lettering and stripe layout. I hope that if I can get enough information out on DGLE we can standardize the industry a bit and have no more misconceptions of the color. I am sure Marty has heard enough about the need for an FP-7 so he doesn't need to hear it from me. But I will mention it. Greg Martin --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve Hoxie write...

Greg--I for one greatly appreci= ate your efforts with the manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half=20= of what you tell them, it will be a nice model.  But do we really need=20= another chicken wire F 3? <Snip>


What I need is a really good FP= -7.  <Snip>
IM surely realizes that their doing the F 3 would compete directly with Gene= sis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not yet).&nbs= p; The FP-7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide open.
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Steve,
I understand, but the F 3 was their idea and not mine. But I will say that o= n our last survey I handed over to Ed Ryan before he left Athearn it was dea= d even with F 3 phase 2 early and the F 7 phase 1. I just agreed to help. I=20= want to improve their understanding of the PRR's paint colors and correct th= e lettering and stripe layout. I hope that if I can get enough information o= ut on DGLE we can standardize the industry a bit and have no more misconcept= ions of the color.

I am sure Marty has heard enough about the need for an FP-7 so he doesn't ne= ed to hear it from me.  But I will mention it.

Greg Martin --part1_1d8.4db8f60.2b9ee00c_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:19:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: Jerry Britton > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3130208376_9631865 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/10/03 8:38 PM, "LeeRainey@aol.com" wrote: > Is there a trick to opening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see > anything. A message that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it > changes to "done", and the screen stays blank. > > I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files. > > No idea. I downloaded it remotely myself yesterday and it worked fine. Anyone else having a problem? The file size is only 2.2 MB. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- --B_3130208376_9631865 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online</TITL= E> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">On 3/10/03 8:38 PM, "LeeRainey@aol.com" <= LeeRainey@aol.com> wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Is there a trick to op= ening or downloading this? I click on it and do not see anything. A message = that says "downloading" appears for a few seconds, it changes to &= quot;done", and the screen stays blank.<BR> <BR> I do have Acrobat Reader on my system and it is working for other files.<BR= > <BR> </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">No idea. I downloaded it remotely myself= yesterday and it worked fine. Anyone else having a problem? The file size i= s only 2.2 MB.<BR> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> Jerry Britton, SPF      jerry@pennsyrr.com  &= nbsp;  Member, PRRT&HS<BR> <BR> "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of <BR> Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana <BR> products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossi= ngs", <BR> the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "= Conrail-<BR> Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "M= S", you are <BR> providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit <BR> our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com.<BR> ------------------------------Thank you!-----------------------------<BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3130208376_9631865-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:21:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Withers Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 8: GP7s From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:43 AM, "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> wrote: > I was over at Withers web site, and in the "What's New" section I noticed > they have the book I referred to in the subject line listed. Scheduled > delivery is 7/18/03. I haven't seen this mentioned on the list yet so I > thought I'd bring it up. > <grin> but for those on the "Merchandise Announce" list it was announced weeks ago! Volume one has also been reprinted. Volume two is currently out of print. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:38:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lew, I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17.=20 Patrick Grace ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lewis J. Matt PhD=20 To: Steve Hoxie ; PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:34 PM Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly = with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least = not yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or = RSD 17.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Patrick Grace</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlmatt@alltel.net href=3D"mailto:lmatt@alltel.net">Lewis J. = Matt PhD</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net=20 href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve Hoxie</A> ; <A=20 title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com = href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 11:34=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: An FP7 Please! ( = was Re:=20 [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friends:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net = href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve=20 Hoxie</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com=20 href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want to hold back for a few months = as=20 Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have = been ask to=20 assist in the paint and lettering of the units and I have = agreed. =20 >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the = 3=20 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and Lettering of the = Genesis=20 units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = color=3D#000000 size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff"=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with=20 the manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you = tell them,=20 it will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken = wire=20 F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I = can get one=20 by cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a=20 Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but that is expensive and a lot of = work. =20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not = in Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional = roads=20 besides Pennsy, is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> = <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C2E7C2.C3673DB0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:23:23 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner <Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer There has been a new release of FP7s announnced by Roco at Nuremberg in February. I have the original Roco leaflet here, and the photos look much better than the old ones sold through Atlas and E-R. They also come with DCC and optional sound decoder. As Roco definitely is able to make very good models, and as in Europe they are known to make improvements almost all the time also on older lines, there might be a chance for a decent model of FP7. Here a link to a German dealer, who has the units listed and some pics. Burkhard Sanner Steve Hoxie schrieb: > Chris Baker asked-->>What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? > I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would > like >to correct any and all problems before I put it on > my railroad.>I have one, too. The Atlas/ER FP7 was great > in 1980. Now it suffers from our seeing how good Stewart, > Genesis/Highliners, and IM can do it. The cab windshields > are the wrong shape, the small details lack the sharpness > of current models, and the design at the rear of the shell > makes it nearly impossible to close couple. Depending on > which version you have, a 36' dynamic brake fan must be > added. The pilot must also be replaced but that is now > relatively simple with the IM part. No doubt others can > add to this list. Steve HoxiePensacola FL > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@dementia.org> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, pgrace wrote: > > Lew, > > I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17. What's an RSD17? ;-) The almost-twin to the RSD-15 was the RSD-7. Stewart has been rumored several times to be likely to do one, but not recently. I'd like to see either. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:59:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer I've heard that rumor too about the RSD12s in plastic. I need a few for the east slope. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:02:23 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear <shadow@dementia.org> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 zootowerprr@webtv.net wrote: > > I've heard that rumor too about the RSD12s in plastic. I need a few > for the east slope. Well, there's always the not-correct Atlas RSD-12. The RSD-15 hasn't been attempted in HO since A.C. Gilbert. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:04:17 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Cresson Info From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Pat McKinney & List: Is there a library or historical society in Cresson that might have photos of the railroad around Cresson circa 1950's? I am looking for photos of structures, elevation plans, etc., and NOT trains themselves. Specifics: Roundhouse Coal wharf Turntable Mech. Shop Oil House Store House Secondarily would be photos of the same for Gallitzin. Specifics: Tunnel Hill Blower Facility, both steam and diesel eras UN AR Diesel Helper facility on loop tracks If not a local library or historical society, where? P.S. Looking for stuff that is NOT published. I have the many Morning Sun Books, Triumph I, etc. Thanks. P.P.S Willing to pay for reprints of worthwhile content. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:19:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> This is more of a reflective commentary than a request... My layout will include the yard on the Cresson Secondary at Cresson. This is where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal branches that were known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". While all those great photographers where out shooting the main line, its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have similar libraries of the action on the branches...specifically the landscape and structures themselves. There were hundreds of coal tipples in those mountains. Yet we have photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be found, in shoe boxes of people who worked there. Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal mine operations of the Pennsy? If only we could go back 50 years with a digital camera!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com> Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/10/03 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:57:55 -0500 Bill; Do you know what "era" this was taken??....pre 1945.....46 -53??? Earl Myers ----- Original Message ----- From: "PRR-Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> To: "PRR-Talk" <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 7:40 PM Subject: PRR-Talk Digest - 03/10/03 PRR-Talk Digest - Monday, March 10, 2003 Q2 Duplex in N Scale by "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Re: [PRR] GG1's by "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Train Antennae and system by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Older PRR locomotives by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Panhandle locomotives by "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> H10s on Lines East by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East by "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> H27 by "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East by "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? by "Richard Poole" <dpoole17@PAnetwork.com> An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni by "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@earthlink.net> Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F by "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net> RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F by "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> H10s on Lines East by "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net> Railway Express X29 by "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net> Brake test air line question by "William Ayers" <bprrq2@earthlink.net> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 22:03:13 -0800 The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. Doug Nelson. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Q2 Duplex in N Scale From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:20:03 -0500 On 3/10/03 1:03 AM, "Douglas Nelson" <dougnelson@mindspring.com> wrote: > The April RMC has an announcement from Key Imports for an N Scale Q2 Duplex. > I don't remember this being mentioned on the list, but I may have missed it. > Doug: Though the ad may have just appeared, this was actually announced about two years ago. There will be two road numbers -- #6175 and #6131. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: MP229 Assignment of Locomotives from 1954 Now Online From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:27:08 -0500 With credit to Doug Kisala (for providing a photocopy), I have posted to the Motive Ops section of Keystone Crossings a March 1, 1954 edition of Form MP229, Assignment of Locomotives. This document, broken down by division, lists all of the locomotives assigned to it, by road number. This form is very useful to modelers in determining the appropriateness of a newly announced model to the division you are depicting. You can quickly determine if your division had any of the units in question and, if they did, what road numbers they were. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] GG1's From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:52:42 -0600 Norm asks: >I've looked at a lot of pictures of pilots between 4801-4857 and 4858-1936 >and >as near as I can tell the only major difference is the bulge for the drop >coupler on 4858-4936. The steps are the same and the pilot dimensions and >outside shape is the same. It should be a fairly simple conversion to lop >off >the bulge and fill in the area with a styrene plug that is straight >accross and >repaint. Has anybody tried this? Thanks, Norm Bell I would have to agree that it doesn't look like that hard a "bash"...one reason I haven't made a bigger fuss about BLI's mix up with numbers <G>. The funny thing is that I've never seen the bash described anywhere. You could certainly do it on the IHC Premier GG1. I'm waiting to see how the BLI GG1 goes together to see if it would be easier to simply make one pilot and cast it to replace the pilots on a "fleet" or if it will be necessary to modify each one. Better still would be if BLI came out with the flat pilot version! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Train Antennae and system From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:52:50 -0800 (PST) Anyone know the date the train telephone system was installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle? There must be a date before installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would have the antennae, another period where you would see some with and some without, and a final date where all locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Older PRR locomotives From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) Any suggestions on commonly available HO steam locomotives readily convertible to older PRR prototypes? Specifically, older B,D,E,F,G and H classes, especially those that may have run on Panhandle rails between Pittsburgh and Mingo Junction. I have been told that the MDC/Roundhouse E-6 is undersize--is it close to one of the previous E classes? Thanks in advance. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Train Antennae and system From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:04:06 -0500 On 3/10/03 1:52 PM, Ronald Di Orio (prr2249@yahoo.com) wrote: > Anyone know the date the train telephone system was > installed on the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of > the Panhandle? There must be a date before > installation when no locomotives or cabin cars would > have the antennae, another period where you would see > some with and some without, and a final date where all > locomotives/cabin cars assigned to that part of the > railroad would be so equipped. Thanks. Ron > I don't have a direct answer for you, but clues would be contained in the "MP229 Assignment of Locomotives" documents. The listing of locos for each division indicates which have trainphones or radios. This morning I posted a 1954 edition to Keystone Crossings. Right underneath the link to the file for the 1954 edition are links to 1944 and 1957 editions on other sites. I doubt there was ever a time when all locos in a division were so equipped. Hope this helps! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Panhandle locomotives From: "Ronald Di Orio" <prr2249@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:04:52 -0800 (PST) Anyone know of a source/list of locomotives that ran on or were assigned to the Pittsburgh-Mingo Junction section of the Panhandle. I am aware of the 229's published at Keystone Crossings. I have not had much luck in uncovering other 229's or photographs of locomotives lettered for the P C & St.L, the P C C & St. L, or Pennsylvania Lines locomotives that can definitely be proven to have been assigned to this section of the PRR. Any help or directions will be greatly appreciated. Ron __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10s on Lines East From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:26:27 -0500 A few years back Key Imports announced (but has yet to produce) a rerun of H8 / H9 / H10 locomotives in N scale. I did some brief research at the time, to see which would be appropriate for my "Eastern Region" layout. >From very basic sources, I came to the conclusion that the H8's and H10's were "Lines West" locomotives, so I didn't plan on ordering these locomotives. While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division. Guess I better get my name into the queue in case these are ever made! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: "Jerry Britton" <jerry@pennsyrr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:38:21 -0500 On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H27 From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@mail.auburn.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:44:28 -0600 Okay campers, Has anyone here attempted a PRR H27? I had one of those "danger" moments last night while looking for something else in Pennsy Power III, and I came accross the photo of the only (?) offset PRR hopper, the 6 bay H27! A neat car at 90 tons, and 50.5' coupled length. I know that there is a photo in Teichmoeller's book. I wonder how easy the car would be to kitbash in HO from one of the existing (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, Stewart...) or pending (Accurail) offset hoppers? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:31:11 -0600 After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the > list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to > the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia > Division. > I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: CABIN CAR YELLOW HANDRAILS?? From: "Richard Poole" <dpoole17@PAnetwork.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:21:49 -0500 QUESTION: In Jan. of 1949, PRR authorized the painting of the corner handrails on N-5b cabins, CHROME YELLOW. My question is exactly how much of the handrail was painted YELLOW? CORNER, CURVED HANDRAIL: Was the entire handrail painted YELLOW, end-to-end? CORNER STRAIGHT HANDRAIL that bends inward under the end wondow: How much of this one is painted? Just to the bend or all the way to the door?? CORNER HANDRAIL ON CORNER POST: I am assuming that this one was painted in it's entirety?? THANKS!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:37:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going = to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint = and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be a = real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the manufacturers. = If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it will be a nice = model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I can come up = with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from Stewart. I can = do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our F3 cup already = runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a couple = of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis drive--but = that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want to=20 hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a "chicken = >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the units=20 and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real NIT-PICKED this = time and=20 not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint and = Lettering of=20 the Genesis units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts = with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, = it will=20 be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I=20 can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from=20 Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners = shell.  Our=20 F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3 would=20 compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy = colors=20 (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads besides = Pennsy,=20 is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C2E72B.C2DBCD30-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Lewis J. Matt PhD" <lmatt@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:34:44 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends: How about anything.... except another EMD F series !!!!! Lew ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: PRR-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make = proper HO F-unit decals?) Greg wrote-- > >You might want to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is = going to offer a "chicken >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the = paint and lettering of the units and I have agreed. >I am m going to be = a real NIT-PICKED this time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed = >through on the Paint and Lettering of the Genesis units. > Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your efforts with the = manufacturers. If IM only incorporates half of what you tell them, it = will be a nice model. But do we really need another chicken wire F3? I = can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either phase from = Stewart. I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Our = F3 cup already runneth over.=20 What I need is a really good FP7. I can get one by cutting up a = couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a Kato/IM/Genesis = drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work. =20 IM surely realizes that their doing the F3 would compete direcly with = Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in Pennsy colors (at least not = yet). The FP7 market, with additional roads besides Pennsy, is wide = open. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friends:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How about anything.... except = another EMD F=20 series !!!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lew</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dstevehprr@earthlink.net = href=3D"mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net">Steve=20 Hoxie</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3DPRR-talk@dsop.com=20 href=3D"mailto:PRR-talk@dsop.com">PRR-talk@dsop.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 = 6:37=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> An FP7 Please! ( was = Re: [PRR]=20 Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greg wrote--</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">>You might want=20 to hold back for a few months as Intermountain is going to offer a = "chicken=20 >wire" F 3. I have been ask to assist in the paint and lettering of = the=20 units and I have agreed.  >I am m going to be a real = NIT-PICKED this=20 time and not allow the 3 errors that squeezed >through on the Paint = and=20 Lettering of the Genesis units.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20 face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">><FONT lang=3D0=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 = size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Greg--I for one greatly appreciate your = efforts with the=20 manufacturers.  If IM only incorporates half of what you tell = them, it=20 will be a nice model.  But do we really need another chicken wire = F3?  I can come up with a really good chicken wire F3 in either = phase=20 from Stewart.  I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners=20 shell.  Our F3 cup already runneth over. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>What I need is a really good FP7.  I can = get one by=20 cutting up a couple of Highliners A units, and I can stretch a = Kato/IM/Genesis=20 drive--but that is expensive and a lot of work.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>IM surely realizes that their doing = the F3=20 would compete direcly with Genesis and Stewart, although maybe not in = Pennsy=20 colors (at least not yet).  The FP7 market, with additional roads = besides=20 Pennsy, is wide open.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Steve Hoxie</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pensacola FL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0362_01C2E733.B8593E80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) From: "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@insightbb.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:51:32 -0600 Steve wrote-- I can do a really excellent F3 with a Highliners shell. Steve, What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. Andy Cich ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: H10s on Lines East From: "Gregg Mahlkov" <mahlkov@gtcom.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:20:36 -0500 The Long Island Rail Road's 100-series 2-8-0's were H10's as well. Can't get any further East than that! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> To: "'Jerry Britton'" <jerry@pennsyrr.com>; "PRR-Talk LIST" <prr-talk@dsop.com> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] H10s on Lines East After WWII, the H's roamed the whole system. For instance, I believe that Don Ball shows an H8 pasing through N. Philadelphia in his PRR color photo book. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:38 PM o: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] H10s on Lines East On 3/10/03 2:26 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: While looking up info in the 1954 MP229 for a recent question here on the list, I made two discoveries... In 1954, there were three H10's assigned to the Susquehanna Division and five H10's assigned to the Philadelphia Division I'll add that there were 11 H10's assigned to the Pittsburgh Division in 1954. Could certainly justify one for the coal branches radiating out of Cresson. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Railway Express X29 From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:34:43 -0500 Hi All, Does anyone know what the PRR "E" or negative number is for this photo? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/X29_REA.jpg Please reply to billlane@comcast.net Thanks Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Brake test air line question From: "William Ayers" <bprrq2@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:39:30 -0600 I was just studying a yard map of the Crestline facility and in several locations there are air lines for testing the air brakes on trains prior to leaving the yard. Some of these pipes are in rather remote locations, not near the roundhouse or any other out building of any consequence. In any busy terminal, quite a few number of trains would be leaving at any given time, and it seems that there would be a large demand for compressed air. My question is, what sort of compressor was generally used, and where would it be located, and would it be dedicated to air brake testing, or a general supply of air for other purposes as well? TIA -- Bill Ayers Remembering the PRR in Crestline http://crestline.pennsyrr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of PRR-Talk Digest ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" <cadwelml@bp.com> Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:09:01 -0600 I think some of the Champ (Medium Size Tender ?) Steam Decals will work on the diesels. At lteast they apear more accurate than the lettering supplied with the diesel decals. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hoxie [mailto:stevehprr@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 11:45 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) Andy Cich asked-- > > What would you use for decals? I would like to build a few different F3 > variations, but I haven't found suitable decals. > I use Champ EH-78F. I know they are slightly too wide, but it was all we had until Microscale came out with their latest, but they aren't perfect either. Maybe the situation will get better, but with Champ's impending demise, probably not. It is a forced compromise. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" <pgrace@aspects.net> Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:34:27 -0000 I should have said RSD 12 & 15 not 15 & 17! Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" <shadow@dementia.org> To: <PRR-Talk@dsop.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 1:42 PM Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-unit decals?) > On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, pgrace wrote: > > > > > Lew, > > > > I agree what about an Alco RSD 15 or RSD 17. > > What's an RSD17? ;-) > > The almost-twin to the RSD-15 was the RSD-7. Stewart has been rumored > several times to be likely to do one, but not recently. I'd like to see > either. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@ttisg.com> Subject: RE: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:43:29 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Chris; You are faced with: reducing the depth of the rear roof overhang to about 3" removing the 48" dynamic brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing with a 36" fan replacing the rear door and frame with the Details West package, adding the rear light adding rear ladder and platform adding Trainphone antennae with conduit down back of unit alongside door frame adding "eyebrow" grabs adding ladder grabs, and if post-'62, right side nose ladder shaving and adding all side grabs at doors and rear corner adding top right roof corner angle grab shaving and replacing exhaust stacks shaving and adding roof lift rings shaving off and replacing the angled number boards (compare them to a photo some time) fixing the window openings in the front windshield area recontouring the headlight housing area adding front m.u if post-'62 cutting off and replacing the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and m.u. hose housings and hoses replacing the miserable drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the wheelbase is much longer than an F-unit) adding a water tank under the chassis in front of the fuel tank if post-'62 at latest: cutting off most of the skirting, fashioning detail, adding fuel fills, water fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank supports, replacing battery box cover with one with angled top shaving off horn(s) and replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center Leslie(?) on right side In fact, there are so many things to do on a DECENT shell. Even the batten strips on this don't look right. You might save yourself the headaches like I did and do some F-units instead using the beautiful offerings out there now. After all, there are DOZENS of good ones out there that can be "Pennsy-ized" with so much less work. P2K GP-7, GP-9, GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9, SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S-12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35. WOW! Have a great week, Elden -----Original Message----- From: Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM To: lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni... What's wrong with the Atlas FP7?? I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad. Thanks in advance, Chris Baker #1918 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Chris;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You are faced with:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>reducing the depth of the rear roof overhang to about 3"</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>removing the 48" dynamic brake fan, building up a new pad and replacing with a 36" fan</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>replacing the rear door and frame with the Details West package, adding the rear light</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding rear ladder and platform</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding Trainphone antennae with conduit down back of unit alongside door frame</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding "eyebrow" grabs</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding ladder grabs, and if post-'62, right side nose ladder</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and adding all side grabs at doors and rear corner</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding top right roof corner angle grab</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and replacing exhaust stacks</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving and adding roof lift rings</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving off and replacing the angled number boards (compare them to a photo some time)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>fixing the window openings in the front windshield area</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>recontouring the headlight housing area</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding front m.u if post-'62</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>cutting off and replacing the pilot and adding bottom corner steps and m.u. hose housings and hoses</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>replacing the miserable drive unit with a decent one (good luck, the wheelbase is much longer than an F-unit)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>adding a water tank under the chassis in front of the fuel tank</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>if post-'62 at latest: cutting off most of the skirting, fashioning detail, adding fuel fills, water fills, fuel tank sighting gauge, fuel tank supports, replacing battery box cover with one with angled top</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>shaving off horn(s) and replacing with 3-facing-forward-longest-in-center Leslie(?) on right side</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In fact, there are so many things to do on a DECENT shell.  Even the batten strips on this don't look right.  You might save yourself the headaches like I did and do some F-units instead using the beautiful offerings out there now.  After all, there are DOZENS of good ones out there that can be "Pennsy-ized" with so much less work.  P2K GP-7, GP-9, GP-30, C-Liner, Erie-built, SW-9, SW-1200, S-1, SD-7, SD-9 ; Atlas RS-11, S-2, S-4, Stewart F's, DS 4-4-10, S-12, VO, U-25B. Kato GP-35.  WOW!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Have a great week,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=233264516-11032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Elden</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Chrisandbelton2@aol.com [mailto:Chrisandbelton2@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 10, 2003 5:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> lmatt@alltel.net; stevehprr@earthlink.net; PRR-talk@dsop.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: An FP7 Please! ( was Re: [PRR] Does any manufacturer make proper HO F-uni...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">What's wrong with the Atlas FP7??  I'm curious as I acquired one by happenstance and would like to correct any and all problems before I put it on my railroad.<BR><BR>Thanks in advance,<BR>Chris Baker #1918</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2E7ED.580A9870-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Yes, Bill, it's all your fault! You let us down! We were counting on you! (Just kidding, of course!) But by comparison, there is something like a five volume set of books on Pennsylvania logging. I haven't seen it, so don't flame me just yet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 11:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Yes, Bill, it's all your fault! You let us down! We were counting on you! (Just kidding, of course!) But by comparison, there is something like a five volume set of books on Pennsylvania logging. I haven't seen it, so don't flame me just yet! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Volkmer" <bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com> Subject: RE: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:03:52 -0500 Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if not more. WDV (Couldn't see the trucks for the weeds) -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:20 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster This is more of a reflective commentary than a request... My layout will include the yard on the Cresson Secondary at Cresson. This is where all the coal spilled out of all the misc. coal branches that were known as the "C&C" or the "Clearfield Cluster". While all those great photographers where out shooting the main line, its locomotives, etc., it's a shame we don't have similar libraries of the action on the branches...specifically the landscape and structures themselves. There were hundreds of coal tipples in those mountains. Yet we have photos of nearly none. Or they are files away, never to be found, in shoe boxes of people who worked there. Wouldn't you like to see an entire book on the coal mine operations of the Pennsy? If only we could go back 50 years with a digital camera!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:10:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster From: Jerry Britton <jerry@pennsyrr.com> On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a > percentage of the old paycheckeroony in those days as it does today, if > not more. > Adding on to my previous post, I want to reaffirm that my original post was "reflective". I was not trying to "blame" the photographers of the day, yourself included. You were, indeed, trying to collect a paycheck. It's only now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos of the environment that the PRR ran in. Nobody, at least not by intention, could have foreseen this need. I certainly am not a professional photographer (I just play one on the Internet), but when I do go out and shoot, since I am digital, I shoot lots of pics I would not have shot on costly film. When I shoot a passing train, I do shoot the locos. But then I shoot as many of the unusual cars as is realistically possible. I also shoot the physical plant. It takes me only about 30 seconds per photo to catalog it into my electronic database and then it is there for the ages (or at least until an EMP explosion smashes all the bits and bytes into meaningless 0's and 1's)! Who knows, maybe my son will one day get wealthy off me! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Clearfield Cluster Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:19:01 +0000 It's only > now, 50 years later, that those trying to "recreate" the scene need photos > of the environment that the PRR ran in. On the other hand you don't need to worry about some rivet counter saying the paint is wrong or the building is 4" to short! > On 3/11/03 12:03 PM, Bill Volkmer (bvolkmer@herzogcompanies.com) wrote: > > > Did YOU ever try to drive around that area? Other than a crossing at > > Ashville, a weed choked area around Mehaffey etc. the area was virtually > > impossible to access. Why troop through that slime to shoot falling > > down coal tipples etc. when there was a train every five minutes out on > > the main with the same power and same cars etc.? Gas cost just as big a