From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers new gon Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:12:36 -0500 Gentlemen, I bought a pair of those new gons at a recent trainshow. Now granted, not exactly "Pennsy info", but I have discovered a few items which I feel I should bring to the groups attention. 1. The kits came rtr. All included parts were attached, even the weight between the center sill and floor was painted and in place. 2. The spue which has the grab irons was missing on both. (not a big deal, as I intended to replace with A-Line preformed anyway) 3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied McHenry with KD #5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the endsill. Anyone else make these same "discoveries? IMHO, a pretty good car (at least it appears nice), but the problem with mismatched coupler heights will lead to obvious difficulties down the road. Not something I would have expected from a car costing around $35, if you include the containers. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:33:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers new gon Did I miss a CK version? We ordered in the PRR cars,but they came with the modern herald. Nice color,though. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] E Bay listing Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +0000 This listing on E bay is for a PFM K4. It is under Pennsylvania on the HO board. Since it is mislabeled the current price is $24.95! Thought somebody might want to bid on this. PENNSYLVANIA HO BY ATLAS #462 Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:29:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers new gon Walt sez: >3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied McHenry with KD >#5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies >War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler >pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the >endsill. The cars are half a knuckle high 'cause Walthers set the bolsters too high. You need to trim some off the bolsters, but then the wheels foul the floor braces so you'll need to trim them too...nice car, but it could have been better with just a little more QC on Walthers part...for once the paint looks good too. And Bob, no CK version yet of the G25...it would be very appropriate though! One thing to recognize is that this wasn't a major car class...so for my fleet of 250 PRR cars, I need 2 (and for that, I'll stick to the one piece Westerfield). Far more common were GS (Bowser), GR, GRa classes with G22 and G27 also topping G25 numbers (at least in the 40s). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers new gon Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:22:22 -0500 The car comes with formed metal grabs! They should be in the bag with the horn hooks! Also, as far as I know, the G25's weren't used by the PRR in container service... Walthers slapped a modified G22 paint scheme on the G25 (the car number is correct for a G25 but the container load limit lettering should only be on a G22.) as the G22 fits in better with their container marketing plan! The G22 and G25 designs are similar so as long as you're willing to overlook the differences... I really wish Walthers would have put a more correct paint job on the cars and not tried to force the container issue! Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of WaltP > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:13 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers new gon > > > Gentlemen, > I bought a pair of those new gons at a recent trainshow. Now granted, not > exactly "Pennsy info", but I have discovered a few items which I feel I > should bring to the groups attention. > > 1. The kits came rtr. All included parts were attached, even the weight > between the center sill and floor was painted and in place. > 2. The spue which has the grab irons was missing on both. (not a big deal, > as I intended to replace with A-Line preformed anyway) > 3. The cars sit a half knuckle high. I replaced the supplied > McHenry with KD > #5 and discovered this height difference. The cars sit lower than Tichies > War Emergency gon, so I got to believe the problem exists in the coupler > pocket itself. BUT the pocket's location "looks" fine when looking at the > endsill. > > Anyone else make these same "discoveries? IMHO, a pretty good car > (at least > it appears nice), but the problem with mismatched coupler heights > will lead > to obvious difficulties down the road. Not something I would have expected > from a car costing around $35, if you include the containers. > > Walt Prusick > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:28 -0500 Guys, Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to loose them right from the get-go. As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the wheel tread and car floor. BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:32:52 -0600 One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. -----Original Message----- From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Guys, Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to loose them right from the get-go. As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the wheel tread and car floor. BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:11:08 -0000 Don't use 20 or 30 series use 40's as they have a metal shaft and therefore do not bend with time. I am replacing them slowly having already replaced my Bachmann E-Z couplers Patrick Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" To: "'WaltP'" ; Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:17:15 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) I would suggest the 40 series. All the same variations are available with the same numbers as the 30s and 20s. They all have the same shank shape, but the 40s are metal, like the #5. As a result, there is no #48 - it would be they same as a #5. BTW did you ever notice that Kadee used the same numbering convention on the new scale size coupler - its a #58. That seems to imply the coming of a whole 50s series with scale size heads and all the variations of shank height and length :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Cadwell, Marvin L" wrote: > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: [PRR] RE: Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:39:11 -0600 Let's hope your analysis of KD's numbering system is correct! -----Original Message----- From: Andrew S. Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:17 PM To: Cadwell, Marvin L Cc: 'WaltP'; PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Kadee (was: Walthers gon part 2) I would suggest the 40 series. All the same variations are available with the same numbers as the 30s and 20s. They all have the same shank shape, but the 40s are metal, like the #5. As a result, there is no #48 - it would be they same as a #5. BTW did you ever notice that Kadee used the same numbering convention on the new scale size coupler - its a #58. That seems to imply the coming of a whole 50s series with scale size heads and all the variations of shank height and length :-)) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== "Cadwell, Marvin L" wrote: > One of the new KD's (20 or 30) series ought to solve the coupler problem, if > you don't want to modifiy the bolster and wheels. > > -----Original Message----- > From: WaltP [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:07 AM > To: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part 2) > > Guys, > Actually I bought two decorated with the shadow keystone, and soaked them in > brake fluid for a day. That darned paint is tough! Then I shaved off the > plastic stirrup steps and replaced them with A-Line preformed. Afterall, how > long do you think those plastic "scale" steps will survive? Butter (IMHO) to > loose them right from the get-go. > > As to the coupler height, as KD #5 sit about 1/3 of a knuckle high, which KD > coupler made has a shank almost even with the knuckle? I don't want to go > and hack the bolster as I will probably create interference between the > wheel tread and car floor. > > BTW, There were NO grab irons included, either plastic or wire. > > Guess I'll stop my acquisition at two. > > Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Walthers gon (part2A) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:44:04 -0500 Gentelmen, DAAAA, I should have looked in my current catalog. Your responses prompted me to look that product up. Based upon your comments and their listing, a 22, 32 or a 42 will work. This has the same shank length but the coupler head is in plane with the shank (thus lowering the striking/coupler head). And if I read their chart correctly, #22 & 32 are plastic, thus I will go with a #42. Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:06:16 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Mailing List -- Harrisburg (PA) Rail Fanning From: Jerry Britton I've just started a new mailing list for those who live around, or railfan around, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Discussion is welcome on all aspects of railroad operations within a 20 mile (or so) radius of Harrisburg, Pa. Today this is mostly Norfolk Southern and Amtrak, but it was once Penn Central, Reading, and Pennsylvania Railroad territory! To join, please visit http://lists.dsop.com There you will learn about all of our lists and simple instructions on how to participate on them. I hope you will board for the ride on this new one! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:36:22 -0500 Hi all, Can anyone help me out with info on the PRR's Rubber Tired Switchers (the older style. I'm pretty sure they were classed 3/8000. About the only data I have on them is that they were built by Buckwalter circa 1912 and were originally battery powered, later converted to gasoline operation. Some info I'm looking for is: A full roster... I have a partial roster from photos: 1, 443, 444, 445, 446, 14379, 14380 I don't know if any of these were just renumberings... How many were built? When were they built (is 1912 correct?) When were they converted to gas operation? When did they lose the spoked wheels & get those fat tires? When were they scrapped? How many cars could they pull? Any other info would also be appreciated! I'm also looking for diagrams, plans or key dimensions, (length, width, height, wheelbase, etc..) I'd really like to model one, but would like to have some accurate dimensions first... I have a page on my website devoted to them. It summarizes most of what I know about them along with quite a few photos... http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html If you can help out with exact locations or dates for any of the photos, I'd appreciate it! Thanks! Rob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kalmbach Blue Ribbon Fleet book Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:36:41 -0600 Frank--It is an interesting book if you are looking for a narrative of the rise and fall of Pennsy's streamliner passenger service. No complete rosters are given, but that info is available elsewhere. Some train consist info is given for specific trains on a specific day with the latest date being 12/12/67. Some color photos, most in B/W. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:02:02 +0000 I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for the PRR. How does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:07:04 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe that it does not even come close to a PRR prototype. It is simi= lar to the Bachmann model in that it would be very hard to convert to som= ething close to the PRR doodlebugs. It would be nice for a resin producing model company to produce a resin s= hell of the Brill 250 or Brill 350, which the PRR had in numbers, that co= uld be used on the chassis of the Bachmann or Walthers gas electrics. I k= now that the lengths of the chassis may need to be shortened or lengthene= d, but the power train would be the starting point. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: ndbprr@att.net Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:05 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC Railcar =20 I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for the PRR. How does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe that= it does not even come close to a PRR prototype. It is similar to th= e Bachmann model in that it would be very hard to con= vert to something close to the PRR doodlebugs.
 
It would be nice for a resin producing model compa= ny to produce a resin shell of the Brill 250 or Brill 350, which the= PRR had in numbers, that could be used on the chassis of the Bachma= nn or Walthers gas electrics. I know that the lengths of t= he chassis may need to be shortened or lengthened, but the powe= r train would be the starting point.
 
Te= d Andrews
Carmel, Indiana 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: ndbprr@att.net
=
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:= 05 AM
To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com<= /DIV>
Subject: [PRR] Wlathers EMC = Railcar
 
I know the Bachman doodlebug is wrong for = the PRR. How
does the new Walthers EMC car stand up to scrutiny?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1C1E2.C4942F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:48:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Kadee Sure wish that Kadee would do something for us in "O" scale - you have your choice of 1 (one) coupler - plastic or metal. The plastic one come with plastic copler pockets - the metal with metal I've found that they usually work best with the plastic ones in metal boxes and vice versa - so I mix and match - with brass and other metal cars in the mix - it does make sure that there are no car to car shorts There aren't that many of us in "O" scale, but because of the lack of any selection in shank style there are a lot of cast "dummies" - especially on passenger cars and older locos - in "O" scale (Annother good reason to make sure every care converted is coupler insulated) Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:06:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Don Ball has a photo of #446 in Baltimore, and says in "The PRR 40's and 50's" that they were built in Altoona, of course both sources could be correct if the company you mention is in Altoona. Ball's photo is not dated but it is color and, I presume, that it is post war. He mentions that big ship's wheel My question: did those big hard rubber wheels have flanges - or is the appearance of that, in the photos, just an indication of wear? Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:19:08 -0500 From: Mike Calo Subject: [PRR] Pics of Union Jct tower, Baltimore Hi, list - If this is old news, please forgive me...but at the direction of Ken Meyer, who pointed me to Allen Underkofler's "Pennsylvania Pages", which had a link to the Library of Congress (got that?) I found THIS gem: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hhhtml/hhhome.html I entered "Pennsylvania Railroad" on the KEYWORD search page and got all KINDS of great stuff.. I found a listing for the B&P Jct tower but the pics haven't been digitized yet, so I read the data sheets...and found a reference to HAER MD-50. When I entered that into the keyword search box I found some great pics and the history of the Union Junction tower at Penn Station i nBaltimore There are aerial pics of the NEC from April 1977 at this site too - enter AMTRAK in the search box. Have fun! Mike Calo Annapolis MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:05:48 -0500 Dick, At least one of the older tractors was still extant in 1965-66, parked at President St. Station in Baltimore. Supposedly it could have been started and run if both of the new tractors were out of service. That never happened while I was there.. And no, there were no flanges. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Rubber Tired Switchers... > Don Ball has a photo of #446 in Baltimore, and says in "The PRR 40's and > 50's" that they were built in Altoona, of course both sources could be > correct if the company you mention is in Altoona. Ball's photo is not dated > but it is color and, I presume, that it is post war. He mentions that big > ship's wheel > > My question: did those big hard rubber wheels have flanges - or is the > appearance of that, in the photos, just an indication of wear? > Dick Ross, > Cleveland > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:45:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some sense of abandoned railroad grades in the State College area. So I looked into some background as to what all to expect. Obviously there was the Bellefonte Branch to Lemont and the ex-L&T from there east to Montandon. Likewise, the Bellefonte Central from Bellefonte to State College. Going back to a thread in August of 1997(!) there was discussion of the Fairbrook Branch and the remains of the bridge just east of Tyrone. Mike Bezilla had this to say: > OK. First, I'm not sure how old this bridge is -- can't tell if it dates > from the original construction of the Fairbrook br, which was in the > 1880s. Anyway, as Dan said, this PRR branch did connect w/ the > Bellefonte Central, first near the Scotia iron ore pits. It wasn't a > true interchange, however. In the late 1920s, BFC built a new connector > further west of State College, then bought almost the entire Fairbrook, > and got trackage rights the last mile or two including over the bridge > in question, to Tyrone. The PRR continued to serve a quarry a short > distance east of the bridge, so they didn't want to sell this to the > BFC, thus the trackage rights deal. But BFC's running into Tyrone last > only c. 1929-32 or so, because the PRR refused to interchange there, > they preferred Bellefonte. http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/PRR1880.pdf notes of the Fairbrook Branch's Lewisburg and Tyrone lineage: Nov. 10, 1881 Western section of Lewisburg & Tyrone Railroad opens between Pennsylvania Furnaces and Scotia; middle section between Fairbrook and (Rising Springs?) remains partly graded but never finished. http://bellefonte.topcities.com/railroads/page3.html "pinpoints" the connection mentioned by Mike above as "just south of Waddle". http://www.bellefonte.com/BCR/timeline.html throws some extra trackage into the mix, namely an extension to Pine Grove Mills. I then went to topo maps. Terraserver seems to have a hole in coverage in the area, so topozone.com may be preferable. I have local copies of the maps from PASDA which I used. I assume the branch after crossing the bridge near Tyrone closely followed the road through Nealmont and Stover to about Eyer, then followed the marked "Old railroad grade" which goes all the way to Pennsylvania Furnace. There, the questions start. The obvious old grade continued directly north then northeast following the marked grade to Struble, but this wasn't the connection to Waddle. What was it, then? However, another branch splits off closer to direct north off this near "Tadpole Road" and that "Old Railroad Grade" seems to have been replaced by road. I assume the rail line like this road turned northeast to Scotia, where it appears one line then ran west to a grade which appears to end in a Y, the line to Waddle ran almost directly north, and another grade marked going northeast toward a sandpit and the western end of the Mt Nittany Expressway was presumably either a short branch or a mistake? Going back to Pennsylvania Furnace, at least a section of somewhich which looks like grade continuing northeast toward the village of Fairbrook is marked. Since the line to Scotia presumably did not go through Fairbrook, was this unbuilt L&T grade and "Fairbrook" referred to something else, or was this the "Juniata Branch" (or something else, in which case where was the Juniata Branch?) Final question is, where did the line to Pine Grove Mills run? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:48:20 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central Try getting a copy of the Story of Scotia by Harry Williams that was published by the Centre County Historical Assoc in the early 90's. It is an edited reprint of an earlier work. It has soom preety good information on the PRR-BFC connections in the Carnegie mines west of State College! Bennett Levin Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some sense of abandoned > railroad grades in the State College area. > > So I looked into some background as to what all to expect. Obviously there > was the Bellefonte Branch to Lemont and the ex-L&T from there east to > Montandon. Likewise, the Bellefonte Central from Bellefonte to State > College. > > Going back to a thread in August of 1997(!) there was discussion of the > Fairbrook Branch and the remains of the bridge just east of Tyrone. > > Mike Bezilla had this to say: > > OK. First, I'm not sure how old this bridge is -- can't tell if it dates > > from the original construction of the Fairbrook br, which was in the > > 1880s. Anyway, as Dan said, this PRR branch did connect w/ the > > Bellefonte Central, first near the Scotia iron ore pits. It wasn't a > > true interchange, however. In the late 1920s, BFC built a new connector > > further west of State College, then bought almost the entire Fairbrook, > > and got trackage rights the last mile or two including over the bridge > > in question, to Tyrone. The PRR continued to serve a quarry a short > > distance east of the bridge, so they didn't want to sell this to the > > BFC, thus the trackage rights deal. But BFC's running into Tyrone last > > only c. 1929-32 or so, because the PRR refused to interchange there, > > they preferred Bellefonte. > > http://www.prrths.com/Downloads/PRR1880.pdf notes of the Fairbrook > Branch's Lewisburg and Tyrone lineage: > Nov. 10, 1881 > Western section of Lewisburg & Tyrone Railroad opens between > Pennsylvania Furnaces and Scotia; middle section between > Fairbrook and (Rising Springs?) remains partly graded but never > finished. > > http://bellefonte.topcities.com/railroads/page3.html > "pinpoints" the connection mentioned by Mike above as "just south of > Waddle". > > http://www.bellefonte.com/BCR/timeline.html throws some extra trackage > into the mix, namely an extension to Pine Grove Mills. > > I then went to topo maps. Terraserver seems to have a hole in coverage in > the area, so topozone.com may be preferable. I have local copies of the > maps from PASDA which I used. > > I assume the branch after crossing the bridge near Tyrone closely followed > the road through Nealmont and Stover to about Eyer, then followed the > marked "Old railroad grade" which goes all the way to Pennsylvania > Furnace. There, the questions start. The obvious old grade continued > directly north then northeast following the marked grade to Struble, but > this wasn't the connection to Waddle. What was it, then? > > However, another branch splits off closer to direct north off this near > "Tadpole Road" and that "Old Railroad Grade" seems to have been replaced > by road. I assume the rail line like this road turned northeast to Scotia, > where it appears one line then ran west to a grade which appears to end in > a Y, the line to Waddle ran almost directly north, and another grade > marked going northeast toward a sandpit and the western end of the Mt > Nittany Expressway was presumably either a short branch or a mistake? > > Going back to Pennsylvania Furnace, at least a section of somewhich which > looks like grade continuing northeast toward the village of Fairbrook is > marked. Since the line to Scotia presumably did not go through Fairbrook, > was this unbuilt L&T grade and "Fairbrook" referred to something else, or > was this the "Juniata Branch" (or something else, in which case where was > the Juniata Branch?) > > Final question is, where did the line to Pine Grove Mills run? > > -D > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:09:32 -0600 From: Chuck Bowman Subject: [PRR] F7 Genesis Painting I have just completed the addition of antennas, extra grabs, uncoupling levers, lift rings, etc. to my Athearn Genesis F7 model, and plugged the hole from removal of the second horn (plus one mis-drilled antenna mount hole!). I'm looking for any advice on how to paint all of this. I previously painted the grabs by hand, which worked fine. But getting around the base of the 14 antenna posts looks to be a daunting challenge. I wish I'd painted the bases of the antenna posts prior to installation. Has anyone sprayed the roof? Thanks in advance for any advice. chuck #3756 Charles H. Bowman Phone 979-690-7095 Lah Lah Farm Fax 979-690-8069 13350 Hopes Creek Road Cell 979-587-1386 College Station TX 77845-9250 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eric Lauterbach" Subject: [PRR] Life-Like USRA 0-6-0 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:4:49 -0500

Has anyone heard if these engines are going to be out on schedule? Also, I wonder if they will get the DGLE treatment like the 2-8-8-2's and if the generator will be placed in the correct Pennsy spot.
Eric.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some > sense of abandoned > railroad grades in the State College area. I suppose you've looked at: http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) Also, although not real helpful http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/states/1895/pa_1895.jpg More helpful, but not consistent with the foregoing http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/trnsmapSubjects05.html followed by some (obvious) menu navigation to get to an 1895 map issued by the Secretary of Internal Affairs. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:06:58 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, robert netzlof wrote: > --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Just for my own curiousity I was trying to make some > > sense of abandoned > > railroad grades in the State College area. > > I suppose you've looked at: > http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) Most of the interesting bits are either on the 1935 Allensville quad just south and showing the line through Fairbrook already abandoned and nothing to Pine Grove Mills, or on the not-yet-available Tyrone quad. I suppose it does show that "Fairbrook" was not where it's marked now. > More helpful, but not consistent with the foregoing > http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/trnsmapSubjects05.html > followed by some (obvious) menu navigation to get to > an 1895 map issued by the Secretary of Internal > Affairs. This fills in the Juniata Branch, and that right of way is also still visible on the current quads, shown ending at one of the "The Barrens" labels. No help on the Pine Grove Mills part, though. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:17:30 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Fairbrook Branch/Bellefonte Central On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > I suppose you've looked at: > > http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/Bellefonte.htm (1909) > > Most of the interesting bits are either on the 1935 Allensville quad just > south and showing the line through Fairbrook already abandoned and nothing > to Pine Grove Mills, or on the not-yet-available Tyrone quad. Oh, but this does point the way; I'm mistaken. The track running south of Struble goes to Pine Grove Mills (but the connection into it is on the too-new next map) and the connection from Fairbrook didn't exist yet, the one that's already abandoned on the next map south. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:36:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. Any site locations recommended that are right in town? We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: 266.1 CP-SO 268.1 HBD-DED 271.2 CP-AO 273.2 C 274.5 CP-JW 275.1 Johnstown 277.3 SG 283.0 HBD-DED Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:38:54 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Douglas Nelson" Jerry: There's lots to seen in Johnstown, an overlooked area that has lots of vantage points. The main line makes a big bend through Johnstown, and the geography can be confusing, so bring a good map. A good starting point is the view from the top of the inclined plane, from which you can see a large portion of the mainline, the train station, and the Stone Bridge. Visit the station which is a miniature version of New York's Penn Station. There is a view point you can hike to on the hillside across from the Stone Bridge. In Woodvale you can see C Tower and the helper station. East Connemaugh is a good location to park next to the mainline and watch trains without trespassing. You can listen to C Tower on your scanner. You can sometimes see the Connemaugh & Black Lick working around the steel mills, which are unfortunately not very busy these days. CSX also serves Johnstown with one or two trains a week on the former B&O branch along the Stoney Creek. While in town, you should visit the Flood Museum. It has a good film. If you want a cheap lunch and like hot dogs, visit Coney Island, a few blocks from the museum. East of Johnstown, a two mile hike on a recently opened trail brings you to the restored Staple Bend Tunnel (first railroad in America), part of the Allegheny Portage Railway. The trail starts near the main line in Mineral Point. A good spot for a picnic is the mini park at the Cassandra foot bridge. Eastbounds are really working hard as they pass this spot. Johnstown is a great mix of ethnic neighborhoods, steel mills (what's left) and lots of trains, all crammed into several narrow valleys. You should enjoy it. Doug Nelson. ---------- >From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" >To: PRR-talk >Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown >Date: Sun, Mar 3, 2002, 1:36 PM > > I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... > > In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in > Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is > alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. > > Any site locations recommended that are right in town? > > We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: > > 266.1 CP-SO > 268.1 HBD-DED > 271.2 CP-AO > 273.2 C > 274.5 CP-JW > 275.1 Johnstown > 277.3 SG > 283.0 HBD-DED > > Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:15:16 -0500 From: Dale Dembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown The movie in the flood museum was at least partially made on the Strasburg RR. We were there when the filming was taking place. Not to spoil the illusion, but the rain scene with the locomotive (1223) was made with a fire truck. It was very neat to see the movie a couple of years later, and be able to remember seeing the filming. I agree that the flood museum is a "must see". The PRR played a major role during the flood. Douglas Nelson wrote: > Jerry: > > There's lots to seen in Johnstown, an overlooked area that has lots of > vantage points. > > The main line makes a big bend through Johnstown, and the geography can be > confusing, so bring a good map. > > A good starting point is the view from the top of the inclined plane, from > which you can see a large portion of the mainline, the train station, and > the Stone Bridge. Visit the station which is a miniature version of New > York's Penn Station. There is a view point you can hike to on the hillside > across from the Stone Bridge. > > In Woodvale you can see C Tower and the helper station. East Connemaugh is > a good location to park next to the mainline and watch trains without > trespassing. You can listen to C Tower on your scanner. > > You can sometimes see the Connemaugh & Black Lick working around the steel > mills, which are unfortunately not very busy these days. CSX also serves > Johnstown with one or two trains a week on the former B&O branch along the > Stoney Creek. > > While in town, you should visit the Flood Museum. It has a good film. If > you want a cheap lunch and like hot dogs, visit Coney Island, a few blocks > from the museum. > > East of Johnstown, a two mile hike on a recently opened trail brings you to > the restored Staple Bend Tunnel (first railroad in America), part of the > Allegheny Portage Railway. The trail starts near the main line in Mineral > Point. > > A good spot for a picnic is the mini park at the Cassandra foot bridge. > Eastbounds are really working hard as they pass this spot. > > Johnstown is a great mix of ethnic neighborhoods, steel mills (what's left) > and lots of trains, all crammed into several narrow valleys. > > You should enjoy it. > > Doug Nelson. > > ---------- > >From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" > >To: PRR-talk > >Subject: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown > >Date: Sun, Mar 3, 2002, 1:36 PM > > > > > I've never railfanned the former PRR west of Cresson... > > > > In two weeks my family will be going to visit friends that live in > > Johnstown. We plan to visit the flood museum and the incline, but time is > > alloted for my son Andrew and I to escape to the rails for a while. > > > > Any site locations recommended that are right in town? > > > > We'll have a scanner and track map. Map indicates the following: > > > > 266.1 CP-SO > > 268.1 HBD-DED > > 271.2 CP-AO > > 273.2 C > > 274.5 CP-JW > > 275.1 Johnstown > > 277.3 SG > > 283.0 HBD-DED > > > > Which of these might be the best spots? Thanks! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F7 Genesis Painting Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:25:43 -0600 Hi Chuck--I have successfully masked just above the grills and over the windshields and airbrushed the roof and details. The bottle of Scalecoat II Brunswick Green which I have is an exact match formthe Genesis units I painted. Any slight differences can easily be obscured with weathering. I use Floquil Grimey Black, very thin, to put a layer of exhaust soot and railroad grime on the roof. Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:30:03 -0500 From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Who can help with a PR pass. train schedule? List citizens, who has the PRR public TT that could answer this question: ----- Forwarded message from Bob/Mary carlstead ----- I hope you can help me. I was a hostess on the GM&O 1952-53 and am writing a story for its historical society magazine. I need just one piece of information. In 1952-53 did the Pennsylvania RR have a passenger train from St. Louis to Cincinnati that left later in the afternooon around 4:00 p.m.? Could that have been the Spirit of St. Louis? I don't think it was the B & O but after fifty years I can't remember and want to be absolutely accurate on this or someone will 'shoot me down' for certain. Thank you. Mary Carlstead ----- End forwarded message ----- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Kisala Douglas K 1Lt 31 OSS/INW Subject: [PRR] 1361 update on Steam Central Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:39:05 +0100 Hello list, Here's a link to Steam Central's news page. It has a nice shot of the 1361's backhead and a synopsis of upcoming work. http://www.steamcentral.com/news.shtml Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:34:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Train Show From: Jerry Britton I'd like to remind those in the area that this Saturday, March 9th, is the annual train show in Harrisburg (PA) sponsored by the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS. Show time is 9 a.m.-3 p.m. and the show is in a NEW LOCATION THIS YEAR. For more details, please visit... http://nrhs-hbg.pennsyrr.com/Trainshow/trainshow2002.html ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Justin Silverman" Subject: [PRR] Correct Cabin Car Info Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:53:08 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I have finally found the correct information to the cabin car that the Oc= ean Gate Historical Society wants to restore. It was originally built on August 6, 1918 with PRR #487213. It was repai= nted with a new number of #477212. After the merger, the car was repaint= ed with Penn Central #19021. Then it finally ended up with Amtrak bearin= g the number #14006 and serial #14006PC19021. If anyone could send me more history of the car, especially where it was = assigned during it years and what paint color, that would be great. Thank you. Sincerely, Justin Silverman Co-curator at OGHSGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht= tp://explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
I have finally found the correct information = to the cabin car that the Ocean Gate Historical Society wants to restore.=
 
It was originally built on August 6, 1918 w= ith PRR #487213.  It was repainted with a new number of #477212.&nbs= p; After the merger, the car was repainted with Penn Central #19021. = ; Then it finally ended up with Amtrak bearing the number #14006 and seri= al #14006PC19021.
 
If anyone could send me&nb= sp;more history of the car, especially where it was assigned during it ye= ars and what paint color, that would be great.
 
Thank you.
 
Sincerely,
Jus= tin Silverman
Co-curator at OGHS

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1C362.63432280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:12:15 -0500 From: "Michael J. Albanese" Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown Another site worth experiencing is the Heritage Discovery Center in Cambria City (west of the Stone Bridge, right alongside the NS main). It is designed to give you a flavor for what life was like in industrial Johnstown, particularly for immigrants. Upon entry, you choose an encoded identity card containing the photo and personal info of an immigrant of your choice (Polish, Italian, Slovak, Hungarian, etc.), and then while touring the center you insert the card into audio-visual exhibits depicting human encounters and situations that a newly arrived Johnstown immigrant would likely have been faced with. While you assume the role of immigrant, the person in authority behind the screen (immigration officer, shop foreman, etc.) will berate you, degrade you, insult you (and your heritage), discriminate against you, reject you for employment, and so on. In essence, the person will make you (the immigrant) feel like a totally worthless nothing. Against this rather bleak backdrop, other exhibits then show how working-class Johnstowners were able to persevere against these odds, by binding together and using the resources of community, church, ethnic club, union, etc. A highlight of this center, which covers railroad, coal mining, steel, mercantile, and other aspects of Johnstown life, is the huge cacaphony of sounds you continuously hear, either from audio speakers or by picking up phone-type sticks at the exhibits. At the time I last visited, several exhibits also released scents into the room, reminding you of coal dust, sulfur, and other aromas associated with life around town. The self-tour concludes with an excellent (and rather emotional) film presented on large screens in a comfortable viewing room. There is a large photo art gallery on the top floor (including a window looking out on the NS tracks just outside), as well as a well-stocked book and gift shop. Note that there is another excellent film about the flood shown at the NPS South Fork visitors center, different from the one shown at the Flood Museum downtown. Both are very worthwhile seeing, as they convey different aspects and viewpoints of the tragedy. And if you're lucky enough to be there at the right time, you just might catch a little action on the South Fork Secondary, which runs right through the center of the old dam. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:29:37 -0500 Subject: [PRR] NS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Just happened by Norfolk Southern's web site today (http://www.nscorp.com/) and found that they added background photos on their main page. To my delight was a photo of the Sherman's Creek Bridge at CP CANNON (ex-VIEW in PRR days). A revisit revealed that the images rotate, but there are probably a few more gems there! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:10:40 -0500 Listers, Just got my copy of the April MR. There on the cover is the PRR in all its glory. FP7, J1, E-7, and some nice looking cabin cars along with a position light signal bridge! One question though: was PRR ballast that white? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:04:12 EST From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Chris & folks, I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very long! I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately didn't pick up. Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited kitbashing project in this issue? I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges refunded after this?). Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:22:44 -0500 Barry and the List, The layout is Al Notarione's Pennsylvania and Westbrook. Has some Erie and NYC (boo-hiss) trackage. The second part of modeling the National Limited is in there. And I'm sure the techniques used in that article can be used to Scratchbuild/Kitbash a PRR passenger car that you can't get anywhere(Mandatory PRR content for this part of the thread:) ) Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ndbprr@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:29:43 +0000 I got mine in Chicago yesterday. Can't tell you the name of the owner but it was one that was published several years ago and he has backdated the rolling stock to the transition years. I don't know what color PRR balast is for most of the railroad but all I remember in Philadelphia as a kid was dark oxide red. I have always wondered if it was from years of brakeshoe dust or rust. After giving much thought to it I think that since I mostly viewed trains from the stations it was probably non representative and was indeed brake shoe dust coloring the balast from stopping in the stations. > Chris & folks, > I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very > long! > I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last > month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the > March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). > A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by > Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a > fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy > 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately > didn't pick up. > Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited > kitbashing project in this issue? > I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the > Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of > 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle > their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges > refunded after this?). > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:37:22 -0600 By the way, the gentleman that wrote the article on the National Limited is also a member of the PRRT&HS. He has done similar work on some L&N equipment. Maybe he'll publish some kit-bashing of PRR passenger equipment! -----Original Message----- From: ndbprr@att.net [mailto:ndbprr@att.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:30 AM To: Prr-Talk@dsop.com; BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Model Railroader// Questions I got mine in Chicago yesterday. Can't tell you the name of the owner but it was one that was published several years ago and he has backdated the rolling stock to the transition years. I don't know what color PRR balast is for most of the railroad but all I remember in Philadelphia as a kid was dark oxide red. I have always wondered if it was from years of brakeshoe dust or rust. After giving much thought to it I think that since I mostly viewed trains from the stations it was probably non representative and was indeed brake shoe dust coloring the balast from stopping in the stations. > Chris & folks, > I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very > long! > I'm only speculating, as I haven't recieved MR yet, but am recalling last > month's preview cover photo. (I hope MR doesn't run as late this month as the > March issue, which I didn't get until the 12th). > A couple of questions on my part. Is the Pennsy layout on the cover the one by > Gary Salzburg (spelling=?)that was in MR years back? That always struck me as a > fine layout of moderate size that did a very good job of capturing Pennsy > 'flavor'. There was even a video tape available for awhile which I unfortunately > didn't pick up. > Another quick question. Is the second part of the B&O National Limited > kitbashing project in this issue? > I hate to tie up the famous bandwidth on a non-Pennsy question, but all the > Yahoogroups have been out of service for about the last day on account of > 'maintanance' over on Yahoo. (I wonder if some of the advertisers who peddle > their hidden cameras and etc over there are going to want some of their charges > refunded after this?). > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:03 AM To: 'Chany, Christopher' Subject: RE: [PRR] Model Railroader Chris, I haven't seen MR yet, so I don't know how "white" the ballast is. Photographs and movies of various locations on the Pennsy on occasion show very light and very well groomed ballast. This probably varied from location to location depending what was mined, or used locally. Crushed limestone ran the gamut from very dark to very light. It is very doubtful this pristine appearance lasted very long, as rail-rust, road dirt, cinders, grease & oil, etc., would quickly color the ballast. In many photo's taken before WWII when labor was cheap the ballast and roadbed were very well manicured and maintained. After the war this trend slowly disappeared as deferred maintenance became the norm. To answer your question... Yes, it just depends when and where, and for how long. Hope this helps. Buzz -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:11 AM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader Listers, Just got my copy of the April MR. There on the cover is the PRR in all its glory. FP7, J1, E-7, and some nice looking cabin cars along with a position light signal bridge! One question though: was PRR ballast that white? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:47:54 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Question: On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels From: Jerry Britton On 3/5/02 11:47 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left > is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double > tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? > Somewhere along the line I picked up the acronym "GAP"...Gallitzin, Allegheny, Portage. This was the order, north to south. Gallitzin would be the northernmost, no longer in service. Allegheny would be the one that was widened and is now double-tracked. Portage would be the one to the south, used almost exclusively by eastbounds. Someone correct me if I am wrong on my naming! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:29 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels Hi Don, All, According to "Horseshoe Heritage", by Dan Cupper, the bores were: Northernmost bore - Gallitzin Tunnel Central bore - Allegheny Tunnel Southernmost bore - New Portage Tunnel Respectfully, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:05:45 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Gallitzin tunnels Jerry: You're correct. GAP is the easy way to remember it--the northernmost tunnel (single-track width) is the most recent, opened in 1904 and intended for westbound freight traffic. The center one, Allegheny, is the original, built by PRR and opened in 1854 as a double-track tunnel, and much later single-tracked by PRR. The southernmost was built by the state of Pennsylvania's Allegheny Portage Railroad and opened in 1856. PRR bought the Portage and all of the Main Line of Public Works the next year, so it ended up in PRR hands very early. Dan Cupper Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 3/5/02 11:47 AM, Donald E. Harper, Jr at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > > > On the west side of the mountain there are two tunnels. The one to the left > > is small and has been detracked, while the one to the right is double > > tracked. Is one of these two the portage railroad tunnel? > > > Somewhere along the line I picked up the acronym "GAP"...Gallitzin, > Allegheny, Portage. This was the order, north to south. > > Gallitzin would be the northernmost, no longer in service. Allegheny would > be the one that was widened and is now double-tracked. Portage would be the > one to the south, used almost exclusively by eastbounds. > > Someone correct me if I am wrong on my naming! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:18:33 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a passenger train to boot!! The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal violations with passenger trains in both photos!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:24 EST Subject: [PRR] Model Railroader// Ballast In a message dated 3/5/02 9:50:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, cadwelml@bp.com writes: << I don't think anybody's ballast would stay very white, at least not for very long! >> I may have mentioned this before, there's a very interesting shot of Horseshoe curve from above, looking West, all the ballast was probably renewd at the same time, but the two upbound tracks (3 & 4 on the right) are white with traction sand, close to the rails while the two doenbound track (1 & 2 on the left) are black with brakeshoe dust - both lines seemed to have the typical centerline black stripe (even in diesel days) from cinders in trhe old days - leaking hopper doors, more recently. (Bathtub bottom hoppers may have reduced or eliminated this - on the current RR scene) The color of the center line depends on your predominate cargo - The W&LE and western AC&Y always had a white stone stripe - the B&LE's, or the Pennsy line south from Erie, I presume, would have an Iron Oxide center line - no mater how tighly you close those hopper doors there is always dust filtering out. Dick Ross, Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS From: "Jerry @ pennsyrr.com" on 3/5/02 6:18 PM, Richard Poole at Dpoole17@PAnetwork.com wrote: > Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking > cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this > photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together > protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is > on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, > the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with > the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two > trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a > passenger train to boot!! > The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the > interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the > guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of > time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal > violations with passenger trains in both photos!! > >From a technical perspective, the signal bridge in #1 photo is not an interlocking signal (no second target, for starters). It is a normal block signal. The signals facing away from the camera should be dual target to protect the interlocking. The pole signal on the cover is also a block signal and not an interlocking signal. Might also note there doesn't appear to be any grade on this curve, as trains enter and exit to the same right-of-way. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton jerry@pennsyrr.com http://kc.pennsyrr.com Modeling the PRR in 1954 in N scale! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Quotation Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 List:- For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech that it was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several of my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. Can anyone help me with a source? Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were all part of a continental system. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:44:03 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation --- Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > List:- > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - > "My Railroad may not be as > long as yours, but it's just as wide." Theme and variation #1 President of the Panama Railroad: "My railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's wider." > I had a note > in an old speech that it > was attributed to the President of a short line > railroad, who supposedly > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I can't cite a reference, but I've seen claims that someone said that to someone else in the 1860's. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:41:23 -0500 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] LEONARD SHUFFSTALL I was ask to notify the RR people that LEONARD SHUFFSTALL passed away on TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 2002. I do not know any other details. If you knew LEONARD, I'm sure you will hear more soon! -- DICK POOLE -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:55:48 -0500 Bob: Fat fingers, meant 1860's, thanks. I worked for the PRR in the 1960s! Gregg ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" ; Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Quotation > --- Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > List:- > > > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - > > "My Railroad may not be as > > long as yours, but it's just as wide." > > Theme and variation #1 > > President of the Panama Railroad: "My railroad may not > be as long as yours, but it's wider." > > > I had a note > > in an old speech that it > > was attributed to the President of a short line > > railroad, who supposedly > > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. > > I can't cite a reference, but I've seen claims that > someone said that to someone else in the 1860's. > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:28:26 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] Railfanning Around Johnstown From: "Douglas Nelson" Also note that the Heritage Discovery Center is in an old (paper?) factory building right along the PRR, and that the entry ramp to the museum is a section of the old pedestrian footbridge that crossed the PRR in Woodvale. Doug Nelson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:23:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Unfortunately, Model Railroader didn't have space to print the train order issued in connection with these movements: CONDUCTORS AND ENGINEMEN ALL NORTHWARD MOVEMENTS AT NORTHUM-BERLAND: CONDUCTORS AND ENGINEMEN ALL SOUTHWARD MOVEMENTS AT ELGIN: BETWEEN 12:01 PM AND 2:00 PM THIS DATE MOVEMENTS MUST NOT EXCEED RESTRICTED SPEED BETWEEN STATION ELGIN AND STATION NORTHUM-BERLAND ACCOUNT COMPANY PHOTOGRAPHER ON DUTY. MOVEMENTS GOVERNED BY STOP SIGNAL IN THIS TERRITORY DURING THIS TIME MAY PROCEED NOT EXCEEDING FIVE MPH ON INSTRUCTIONS OR HAND SIGNALS FROM COMPANY PHOTOGRAPHER, KEEPING A SHARP LOOKOUT FOR OTHER MOVEMENTS AND ONLY WITH POSITIVE KNOWLEDGE THAT SWITCHES ARE LINED FOR SAFE MOVEMENT. MOVEMENTS MAY REVERSE DIRECTION WITHIN INTERLOCKING LIMITS DURING THIS TIME IF SO INSTRUCTED, PROVIDED ALL SWITCHES AND OTHER APPLIANCES ARE KNOWN TO BE PROPERLY LINED FOR SAFE MOVEMENT. ++++++++ (Just to point out that operating rules can be modified by train order, when the need arises.) Now, back to your regular timetable. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:38:27 -0600 From: Greg Johnson Subject: Re: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS Hey guys don't be to hard on the photographer. I am sure the rolling stock was posed for compositional purposes. I doubt if half the MR readers are even aware of most prototype operational/signaling rules anyway. Regards (approach medium), Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Poole" To: "PRR TALK" Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: [PRR] MODEL RR's BAD PICS > Note APRIL 2002 MODEL RAILROADER's cover photo & #1 photo in story. Taking cover photo first . . . According to the layout drawing on page #62, this photo is taken just outside an interlocking (where tracks come together protected by signals). Accordingly the two switch engines with the caboose is on the MAIN track with the PRR E-8's on a siding or passing track. Either way, the signal protecting the interlocking was passed by one, or both, trains with the first one passing putting the signal to STOP position. One of those two trains is guilty of passing a signal displaying STOP and one of them is a passenger train to boot!! > The #1 photo has the same problem . . . The hopper train is clearly in the interlocking and the K-4's signal should have been STOP too!!. Sure hope the guy running this RR doesn't work for a real RR 'cause he would have plenty of time to build layouts 'cause he would be fired on the spot for STOP signal violations with passenger trains in both photos!! > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:49:54 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR Ballst Color Buzz writes... >In many photo's taken before WWII when labor was cheap the ballast and roadbed were very well manicured and maintained. After the war this trend slowly disappeared as deferred maintenance became the norm. To answer your question... Yes, it just depends when and where, and for how long. Hope this helps. Buzz< Buzz, Chris and all... The first part of this statement is very true... Who could dispute it? In an interview in 1955 Trains Magazine then President Simms(sp?) admitts that as a result of WW II the physical plant was a mess, a cost of the war years he states and rising post war labor rates. If you guys remember the article Jim Six did for Prototype Modeler in the late 80's kitsmashing an Athearn F-7 and a then Atlas FP-7 the prototype photos in the article taken by R D Acton Sr. shows there is evidence of a nearly white ballast in several shots of the F-7's he had taken in April of 1953 (I believe). These shot were taken in Lines West and I always questioned this with my brother Ed and wondered why so white? Well, the answer we came up with was the typical "white Limestone" aquired in the area. So I guess it goes back to the same old answer we often face... Model from photos of era and date... simple solution, I guess. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:14:11 EST Subject: [PRR] F38 flatcar Anybodyknow what the build date was for these two (?) cars? Bob Zoeller Bayside, WI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:01:33 -0800 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Quotation Gregg, In the late 1940's or early 1950's, Railroad Magazine had an article on the Beaufort & Morehead City Railroad, a short line in either North or South Carolina. In that article, the story was attributed to the president of that line. Steve Bartlett Subject: Quotation From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 List:- For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not be as long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech that it was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several of my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. Can anyone help me with a source? Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were all part of a continental system. Gregg Mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Quotation Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:23 -0500 Steve, My date was typed wrong, should have been 1860's. I know the Leary's, who owned and then leased the B&MH (the state of NC now owns it) and while they may have used it, they didn't originate it. Have heard off list that it was possibly the President of the Ligonier Valley discussing the exchange of passes with the President of the PRR. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Bartlett" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:01 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: Quotation > Gregg, > > In the late 1940's or early 1950's, Railroad Magazine had an article on > the Beaufort & Morehead City Railroad, a short line in either North or > South Carolina. In that article, the story was attributed to the > president of that line. > > Steve Bartlett > > Subject: Quotation > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:49:40 -0500 > > List:- > > For years I have used a quote, even in speeches - "My Railroad may not > be as > long as yours, but it's just as wide." I had a note in an old speech > that it > was attributed to the President of a short line railroad, who supposedly > said it to the President of the PRR, in the 1960's. I looked in several > of > my books where I though I might have originally found it, but no luck. > Can > anyone help me with a source? > > Thanks. As I short liner who originally started with the PRR I always > thought it appropriate to use to remind Class I officers that we were > all > part of a continental system. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] F38 flatcar Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:45:07 -0500 Inspection of photos in Rail Classics promo literature shows a build date of 4-54. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:25 PM Subject: [PRR] F38 flatcar >Anybodyknow what the build date was for these two (?) cars? > >Bob Zoeller >Bayside, WI > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:47:47 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: I-1sa fans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" OK gang, I've scanned another one. A great shot in my estimation This is of #4543 in the yard at Altoona on 16 Aug 1955. It is unique (to me at least) in that the photo is taken from overhead looking down on the right side of the engine. You can easily see the position of the muffler and the turret (which are barely visible from ground level shots), the washout plugs just down from the bell (which hardly show from the ground), as well as all the grime and cinders accumulated on the pilot deck above the air tanks, on the running board and on the cab roof. The roof hatch is open. 4543 is a single compressor engine with top mounted headlight and front mounted generator. Sand pipes go to wheels 1 and 5. Besides all the above, you can see sand along the tracks. You can see a set of tell-tales just behind the tender (which has probably just taken on water, as it is stationed by a stand pipe and a crewman is standing on the tender deck about where the water hatches are). On adjacent tracks are BSC hoppers, PRR flat car 469326 with earth moving equipment, empty D&H drop end gon 13737, and the end of another flat car, non-PRR judging from the only letter I can see. Way off in the background is another hopper, maybe a H21a. Someone who knows Altoona could probably tell us exactly where this photo was taken. As before, the jpg can be had for the price of an e-mail. This is a big one - 4115 K. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matt Sichel" Subject: [PRR] Catonsville Secondary Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:03:32 -0500
Hey all,
 
I'm trying to do some research about the Catonsville Secondary in Baltimore for a course I have at school.  I'm looking at the possibility of constructing a light rail line over the old row much like the one constructed over the old NCR and B&A.  If anyone has any info on the line from the B&P tunnel out to Catonsville, I would really appreciate it.
 
-Matt Sichel
PRR fan stuck in the 21st century

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----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:00:39 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] BS Hopper Don Harper just offered up a great photo of a PRR I1sa. As usual, while everyone else stares at the engine, I stare at the rolling stock! In the background is an unusual hopper. It appears to be quad or triple. It has an end reminiscent of a PRR H-21 or GLA with the heavy end sill and back to back angle vertical supports, but it has an offset side! The reporting marks are BSCo. The lowercase "o" and the lack of an "X" should date the picture prior to some date, the one where lowercase letters were barred and the one where private owners had to use the "X" suffix. Is BSCo Bethlehem Steel Co? Any guesses from the clue as to when this photo was taken? For those of you freight car aficionado's not on the PRR list who did not get the original post, he offered the jpeg file off line with an email to him at : "Donald E. Harper, Jr" Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:20:54 -0600 Subject: [PRR] PRR: Message to John Rosenbauer bounced From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" John Rosenbauer The reply I sent to you was returned with the following message: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 unknown user ) Please advise. Sorry for using the bandwidth on PRR-Talk, but I can't respond to him any other way. Don Harper ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:20 -0500 It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by the National Secrets Act or something! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII (if I could only gain access to the Sanborn maps!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:32:51 -0600 From: "Colm Chomicky" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Here some limited help. I think I saw a previous thread where limited maps might be through Penn State Library? My recollection is Sanborn maps are proprietary and generally you have to pay out the wazzo to get a copy of a given area. They are in much demand by various industries and the company owning the Sanborn information rights capitalizes on this with no apologies. I believe there is a website with the information on how to purchase this commodity. I would guess a little tiny shot of a little tiny area could be easily $100. Maybe you could spend $1000's for any major coverage. >>> "William Bigler" 03/07/02 03:43PM >>> It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by the National Secrets Act or something! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII (if I could only gain access to the Sanborn maps!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:44:55 -0500 From: kunchick@comcast.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online http://sanborn.umi.com/ But I haven't check to see how much it cost to enter them Fred Frederick H. Kunchick Jr. GSCS(SW) USN(Retired) Independent AMSOIL Account Direct http://www.lubedealer.com/kunchick/index.htm Member Strasburg Model Railroad Club http://www.trainweb.org/smrc/index.html Host of ALHN/AHGP New Hampshire Civil War History and Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nh/topic/civilwar/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Bigler" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:43 PM Subject: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online > It seems to me that Sanborn Maps must be available on line, but I sure can't > seem to find them even after several searches and calling several 800 > numbers. Can anyone help? I'm starting to think these maps are covered by > the National Secrets Act or something! > > Bill Bigler > Modeling Renovo & > Williamsport WWII (if > I could only gain access to the > Sanborn maps!) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:40:37 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Catonsville Secondary From: "Matt Sichel" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:03:32 -0500 Hey all, I'm trying to do some research about the Catonsville Secondary in Baltimore for a course I have at school. I'm looking at the possibility of constructing a light rail line over the old row much like the one constructed over the old NCR and B&A. If anyone has any info on the line from the B&P tunnel out to Catonsville, I would really appreciate it. -Matt Sichel >>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt; I grew up outside of Catonsville, but have been away for years. I would be very interested in your research....wish I could help more. It seems to me that I can remember seeing photos of PRR X31F "turtleroof" JEEP Boxcars stenciled "When Empty Return to Catonsville" (or something to that effect). These were roundroof cars that were converted during WWII with a raised center roof portion to accomodate a full load of military vehicles. I always wondered what significance of that was, but never had the time to research it. Maybe others can add / help. Good Luck; Brian Butcher PRR 30s-50s PRRT&HS #5540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:25:14 EST From: LKeough107@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Southwest Branch List I am trying to locate as much information as possible on the Southwest Branch of the PRR. It ran from Greensburg Pa to Connelsville Pa through Youngwood Yard. I would like to get a complete map of the route including track diagrams and the Youngwood yard. My primary interest is from Greensburg to the south end of the Youngwood yard. I was told about a year ago that a list exists that not only provides the track layout but also lists the businesses the line serviced. I would also like to get any information about SW tower, ie when it was built, torn down, floor plans or measurements that type of stuff. Somehow in some wild dream I have, I would like to recreate this approximately 6 mile section of the PRR in the mid 1950's. I do have a copy of "The Keystone" that covers the Youngwood yards. Thank you all in advance. Any and all help and/or information will be greatly appreciated. Steve Keough ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:49:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Southwest Branch From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 11:25 AM, LKeough107@aol.com (LKeough107@aol.com) wrote: > I am trying to locate as much information as possible on the Southwest Branch > of the PRR. It ran from Greensburg Pa to Connelsville Pa through Youngwood > Yard. I would like to get a complete map of the route including track > diagrams and the Youngwood yard. My primary interest is from Greensburg to > the south end of the Youngwood yard. I was told about a year ago that a list > exists that not only provides the track layout but also lists the businesses > the line serviced. The CT1000 is a document published at various times that listed all industries along the line, in 1/10 mile increments. The last one published was in 1945. The Greensburg area would have been in the Central Region, so you would need the CT1000C (C denoting Central). You can download a copy in Acrobat PDF format from my Keystone Crossings web site, from the documents section, at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Re: [FC] Reporting mark dates (was: BS Hopper) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:04 -0500 Andy, Finally got to look at the photo in question. If you look carefully, the "BSCo" marks look freshly applied. If PRR sold some old hoppers to Bethlehem Steel, they would have to originate somewhere on the PRR. Since Altoona was the site of PRR's largest shops, that would be a logical location to find such hoppers. The "X" applies if the shipper wishes to place the cars in regular interchange service and get PAID for their use. Certainly in the pre-computer days of 1955, such cars could have been moved as "freight". This may not be the case, but it at least explains everything satisfactorily. Gregg Mahlkov ------------------------------------------------------ Ah, but the car in question was photographed in 1955 in Enola yard. That's interchange service. Regards, Andy Miller ================================================== Eric Neubauer wrote: How about the date when non-RR car owners (e.g. Beth Steel) were required to have a reporting mark ending in "X"? In this case, I assume we're talking about an in-plant car. Cars for use within the Bethlehem plant and on the PB&NE continued to use BSCo initials. The newest ones were built in the 1970s for limestone and/or dirt service. Cars used in interchange service were BSCX, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Earl Myers" Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:49:57 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well = pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there = in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody = know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, = would there=20 have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa = 1944, what=20 style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with = metal=20 legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be = available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th = scale
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1C6A8.2208EC20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Enola Yard Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:05:14 -0500 Listers, >From NS monthly e-newsletter: Enola improvements complete redesigned network Norfolk Southern has completed network improvements for its Thoroughbred Operating Plan (TOP) for merchandise traffic. Enola Yard, near Harrisburg, Pa., is the last piece of the puzzle to complement the company's efforts to reduce transit times and car handling for merchandise trains. Classification operations began Jan. 21. The company has quadrupled the switching capacity at Enola Yard. The project enables NS to streamline routings between certain origins and destinations, while enhancing the quality of service it offers. "This project symbolizes Norfolk Southern's aggressive pursuit of freight business moving between the Northeast and the South and further solidifies Harrisburg's position as a major freight hub for the Mid-Atlantic," said David Brown, general manager Northern Region. "Shippers should realize immediate benefits from the capacity increase at Enola, including improved transit times and equipment utilization." The improvements allow NS to process 600 cars per day, compared to 125 previously. The $9.8 million project involved rehabilitating nearly 13 miles of track, constructing nine miles of new track and replacing 10 miles of railroad ties. Also included in the project was the renovation of an unused office building and the installation of 12 light towers. "With this last piece in place, we can offer our customers more consistent, reliable service," said Dale Schaub, senior director service design and transportation planning. Schaub is part of a team located in Atlanta that monitors daily merchandise traffic performance in a command center. Performance is measured by on-time departures at origins, point-to-point transit and on-time arrivals at destinations. The team can make changes to the plan as conditions change, to ensure consistency. Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, an NS predecessor, and at one point was the largest rail freight classification yard in the U.S. Traffic through the yard reached its peak in the 1940s. Enola's role as a major railroad classification facility ended in 1993, when Conrail ceased hump operations. I wonder how much was replacing stuff that was removed years ago? Well see in under 2 months!! Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:21:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 2:05 PM, Chany, Christopher (cpc1@westchestergov.com) wrote: > The company has quadrupled the switching capacity at Enola Yard... > The improvements allow NS to process 600 cars per day, compared to 125 > previously. Geez, most of us process more cars than that in our basements! > > Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, Wasn't it earlier than that...like 1902...in conjuction with the A&S and the new Rockville Bridge? > > > > I wonder how much was replacing stuff that was removed years ago? > > Well see in under 2 months!! It's not that dramatic. They didn't do anything (to speak of) on the east half of the yard. Though they probably upgraded the running tracks that get from DAY to the west end of the yard. All of the new work was where the former westbound classification hump yard was. From 11/15 you can't actually see how many new tracks there are, nor the turnout configuration, but I'm told the tracks do not diverge as efficiently as the PRR had it, so there's not quite as good use of space. Not sure how much you can see from the Overlook bridge. That would provide a view of the west end, but the I-81 bridge will at least partly block the view. At least there's traffic! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:41:56 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] New additions from Microscale... Listers, With some reseach and prototype help from a good friend Mark Kerlick, Microscale has now added the "Radio Equipped" emblem for mid-sixties models... Here's an out take from Microscale regarding... "Also,we finally got the radio stickers added to set 87-21... The O Scale set, 48-194, is currently on the press with the radio stickers added as well..." I am working on a few other projects with Microscale as time permitts. Thanks Again to Mark Kerlick for his research! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:49:56 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard Jerry and the list: 1905 is correct as the opening date for Enola Yard. The contractor was H.S. Kerbaugh Inc., which also had three other major PRR contracts in the area at the same time--(1) the contract to build the west half of Rockville Bridge, (2) the contract to excavate and regrade the entire area west of Rockville Bridge and Marysville yard, including the new double-track passenger main line that crossed above the Northern Central and came closer to the town center. (This is the line, now single-tracked, that passes the depot, which is the present-day Blue Mtn. Outfitters.) and (3) the northern end of the Low Grade line, from Columbia to Enola. As Kerbaugh was finishing his work on the bridge in late 1901 and early 1902, he transferred many of his workers to the Marysville job. As they were finishing that, he transferred them to Enola and the Low Grade. Kerbaugh was awarded the contract to build Enola on November 20, 1902. By February 1903, 2,000 men were working on the project and it was projected that it would take two years to complete. The forecast was accurate--the yard opened on January 18, 1905. Hope this helps, Dan Cupper Jerry Britton wrote: > > > Enola Yard was built in 1905 by the Pennsylvania Railroad, > > Wasn't it earlier than that...like 1902...in conjuction with the A&S and the > new Rockville Bridge? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:02:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] WW2 era items From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are STILL pipe rigs with walking beams in western Pennsylvania. Still operating as stripper wells. Don't know where you are, but if you drive into RobinsonTownship, Allegheny County, PA, on Route 60 going to the airport from down by the river you pass right by one. There are several others clustered in the nearby valleys. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ---------- From: "Earl Myers" To: "PRR Talk" Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 08 Mar, 2002, 12:49 Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale --MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] WW2 era items There are STILL pipe rigs with walking beams in western Pennsylvania.  = ;Still operating as stripper wells.  Don't know where you are, but if y= ou drive into RobinsonTownship, Allegheny County, PA, on Route 60 going to t= he airport from down by the river you pass right by one.  There are sev= eral others clustered in the nearby valleys.  


Don Harper
Texas A&M Marine Lab
5007 Avenue U
Galveston, TX  77551
409/740-4540


----------
From: "Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com>
To: "PRR Talk" <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items
Date: Fri, 08 Mar, 2002, 12:49


Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well pu= mps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there in u= se? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybo= dy know where pictures would be available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th scale

--MS_Mac_OE_3098440973_605732_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sanborn Maps Online Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:02:37 -0000 They are available online but only to subscribers to sanborn.umi.com A recent spate of emailing over various mailing lists passed around a "borrowed" password to the UMI site. While the ethics of freely using acquired passwords and user names to which you are not entitled seemed to pass many people by, a correspondent mentioned that UMI are, or have been, offering free trials to various institutions and libraries for a short time. I suggest that you badger your local public library to take advantage of the free trial offer if it's still available. Aidrian --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 - Release Date: 06/03/2002 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:04:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard From: Jerry Britton On 3/8/02 2:49 PM, Dan Cupper (cupper@att.net) wrote: > The contractor was H.S. Kerbaugh Inc., which also had three other major > PRR contracts in the area at the same time--(1) the contract to build > the west half of Rockville Bridge, (2) the contract to excavate and > regrade the entire area west of Rockville Bridge and Marysville yard, > including the new double-track passenger main line that crossed above > the Northern Central and came closer to the town center. That reminds me of a point once researched... Bill Lewis commented to me some time ago that only one track of the former Northern Central Branch appeared under the flyover for as long back as he could remember, via photos. The flyover bridge definitely passes over space for two tracks, and one has been an access road for the longest time. At the New Oxford auction a few years ago I picked up Alexander's book "The Pennsylvania Railroad" and it had a photo showing both tracks. As best I can figure, the second track was pulled up concurrent with when the track from Enola curving onto the Rockville Bridge was finally added in the late 1930's. Perhaps it was a clearance issue. Related: Knowing Enola was going to be built at the time the Rockville Bridge was built, I'm surprised the curved track off the bridge south into Enola wasn't part of the original plan. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "William Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] WW2 era items Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:06:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pennsy's Buffalo line through NW PA to Erie would have passed near the = PA oil fields near Meadville, Bradford and Oil City PA. While I can't = identify any specifically, I have to think there would have been oil = wells with walking beam pumps, especially during WWII. I think Jerry = Shickler who has the websites of the P&E, E&P, and Chataqua branches = http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm might be your best = bet. I don't recall anything on his sites, but they shure go through = that part of the country. An e-mail to him might yield some = information. Good luck! Bill Bigler Modeling Renovo & Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Earl Myers=20 To: PRR Talk=20 Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [PRR] WW2 era items Gents; Thruout the Pennsy countryside, would there have been any oil well = pumps, the walking beam style? Also, forklifts and pallets, circa 1944, what style, models were there = in use? The "pallets" were single deck with metal legs?? If, so, anybody = know where pictures would be available? Earl Myers PRR in 1/29th scale ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pennsy's Buffalo line through NW PA to Erie = would have=20 passed near the PA oil fields near Meadville, Bradford and Oil City = PA. =20 While I can't identify any specifically, I have to think there would = have been=20 oil wells with walking beam pumps, especially during WWII.  I think = Jerry=20 Shickler who has the websites of the P&E, E&P, and Chataqua = branches http://www.velo= city.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm   =20 might be your best bet.  I don't recall anything on his sites, but = they=20 shure go through that part of the country.  An e-mail to  him = might=20 yield some information.  Good luck!
 
Bill Bigler
Modeling Renovo=20 &
     Williamsport WWII
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Earl = Myers=20
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 = 1:49=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] WW2 era = items

Gents;
 Thruout the Pennsy countryside, = would there=20 have been any oil well pumps, the walking beam style?
Also, forklifts and pallets, circa = 1944, what=20 style, models were there in use? The "pallets" were single deck with = metal=20 legs?? If, so, anybody know where pictures would be = available?
Earl Myers
PRR in 1/29th=20 scale
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C1C6B2.C9497F40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:36:31 -0600 Subject: [PRR] I-1sa fans From: "Donald E. Harper, Jr" I scanned a photo of the left side of #790 for Gregg Mahlkov. 790 lacks a feedwater heater. It is available to anyone who wants a copy, as usual, for the price of an e-mail. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:54:46 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [HarrisRailFan] Re: [PRR] Enola Yard Jerry Britton wrote: > > Related: Knowing Enola was going to be built at the time the Rockville > Bridge was built, I'm surprised the curved track off the bridge south into > Enola wasn't part of the original plan. Greetings to Jerry and the List: Actually, it was. The proof of this is that the south wall of the bridge extends straight across to the West Shore and does not curve to the north. This was the same idea as the railroad implemented on the East Shore, with the wye track connection leading to the Rockville Branch to Dauphin and the NC (and on to Sunbury, Northumb