Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 04:22:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Bowser revises A5s drive Hello list, I was just surfing Bowser's site. Bowser plans to offer the A5s shifter with a can motor from the factory. Bowser is also considering offering the A5s as a deluxe kit with all the superdetails included and the holes drilled for them. Here's the link: http://www.bowser-trains.com/Loco%20Pages/A-5.htm I purchased an A5s in 1992 (college graduation present) and I repowered it around 1996 with the (then) Alco Products repower kit. I built the kit pretty much straight from the box except for adding the power reverse (and changing the running board to accomodate it). I struggled with the superdetail kit because I had not (at that time) figured out how to drill holes in zinc without breaking drill bits (center punch the hole and be generous with oil!). In any case, I'm pleased with my A5s and the revisions should make the kit even easier to build. Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:15:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! From: Jerry Britton I don't know the exact date, but "PRR-Talk" is five years old this month! "Keystone Crossings" first appeared a few months earlier, on my then AOL site. In October 1996, I registered DSOP.COM, set up my own servers, moved "KC" there, and then started "PRR-Talk" -- the first Internet mailing list dedicated to the PRR. Today "PRR-Talk" remains the largest PRR list, with just over 500 subscribers. It also remains the only list that invites both prototype and modeling discussion in one forum... a feature I feel is one of its strengths. The searchable archive only goes back to August 1997, but has over 21,000 messages since that time. (I have most of the earlier messages, but they are not in a format readily importable by the server's database.) There have been a few bumps along the way, namely a hard drive crash early in 1997 and several changes of list server software, but everything has been pretty stable for four years or so... and the list has maintained the same address throughout its tenure! I thank all of you for participating in "PRR-Talk". It has vastly improved my knowledge and awareness of the late, great PRR, and has made a major improvement on my modeling efforts. I hope it has helped all of you as well! Happy Anniversary!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:26:47 -0400 Congrats Jerry! And thanks for the service you provide us SPFs. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 9:16 AM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary, To Us!!! I don't know the exact date, but "PRR-Talk" is five years old this month! "Keystone Crossings" first appeared a few months earlier, on my then AOL site. In October 1996, I registered DSOP.COM, set up my own servers, moved "KC" there, and then started "PRR-Talk" -- the first Internet mailing list dedicated to the PRR. Today "PRR-Talk" remains the largest PRR list, with just over 500 subscribers. It also remains the only list that invites both prototype and modeling discussion in one forum... a feature I feel is one of its strengths. The searchable archive only goes back to August 1997, but has over 21,000 messages since that time. (I have most of the earlier messages, but they are not in a format readily importable by the server's database.) There have been a few bumps along the way, namely a hard drive crash early in 1997 and several changes of list server software, but everything has been pretty stable for four years or so... and the list has maintained the same address throughout its tenure! I thank all of you for participating in "PRR-Talk". It has vastly improved my knowledge and awareness of the late, great PRR, and has made a major improvement on my modeling efforts. I hope it has helped all of you as well! Happy Anniversary!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Washington DC loco wreck Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:46:57 -0400 The derailment involved Train 173 the "Federal" and according to the report occurred on 15 January 1953 (not 1952). To view the ICC Investigation Report go to http://specialcollections.tasc.dot.gov/ Then click on the ICC Railroad Investigation Reports link. Type in file number 3497-A and click on search. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Article Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:06:32 -0400 I believe there was a recent post in response to some TrucTrain questions that referenced an article in The Keystone. I just noticed that this issue is up for sale on eBay along with several others: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1011245520 Jerry Breon Reading, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:56:43 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Update: Railfest Dinner at Hoss's Greetings to the group, To date only one person has confirmed a dinner reservation. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 09:47 AM 09/26/2001 -0400, Drew McGhee wrote: >Greetings to the group, > >Well it's that time of year again. I'll be putting together our annual get >together at the Altoona Hoss's. Let's plan to meet for dinner at 6:30 PM at >the Altoona Hoss's located on Valley View Blvd at 7th Street. As in past >years, please let me know if you are planing to attend the dinner. > >If you can't make the dinner, say hello to Andrew and me at the Juniata >Shops Saturday morning. We will be manning the admissions tent from 8 AM >till 1 PM. > >Drew R. McGhee >Altoona, PA >drm6@psu.edu >http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 08:56:38 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast article My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for others enjoyment? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 09:11:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article From: Jerry Britton On 10/3/01 8:56 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in > the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it > is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the > publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for > others enjoyment? > First, the publisher is not dead. He's alive and well and living in Pennsylvania. Second, when the publisher went out of business, he sold all of the makings of the magazine (but not the business per se) to Charlie Horan. While Mr. Horan would like to think the copyright passed to him, even he admits that this was not specifically stated in the terms of his purchase. It has remained a bit of a gray area. Third, many of the articles in Rails Northeast (and Pennsy Journal) were not copyrighted by the publisher. Some were actually picked up from other sources! Further, there have been recent cases that have held that an author providing an article to a magazine/newspaper is providing that publisher for rights on that specific use, but not the right to republish elsewhere. Translation: Even if the RNE copyright ran out, the original author may have rights. Fourth, typically the copyright term is 16 years with a 16 year renewal available. It is UNLIKELY, but not impossible, that such material is/was renewed. The above are non-binding opinions of myself based on previous discussions and personal research into the matter of Bob Reid's publications. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 09:41:02 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, Here are those who have confirmed their dinner reservations for the 6:30 Saturday evening dinner at the Altoona Hoss's (Valley View Blvd at 7th Street). Still pleanty of time to reserve a seat. Please let me know prior to noon on Friday, October 5th. Hoss's will be putting us in thier banquet room that features railroadianna. It's quite a nice room. Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Sam Vastano indicated that he would probably not be able to make the dinner. Sam - If your schedule permits, please join us at 6:30. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 10:56:27 EDT From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article "Fourth, typically the copyright term is 16 years with a 16 year renewal available. It is UNLIKELY, but not impossible, that such material is/was renewed." Jerry and all: This was the case. Changes in International Copyright agreements now provide for the lifetime of the author plus 70 years. Copyright Law of the United States of America and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code § 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 19784 (a) In General.-Copyright in a work created on or after January 1, 1978, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and 70 years after the author's death. § 303. Duration of copyright: Works created but not published or copyrighted before January 1, 19785 (a) Copyright in a work created before January 1, 1978, but not theretofore in the public domain or copyrighted, subsists from January 1, 1978, and endures for the term provided by section 302. In no case, however, shall the term of copyright in such a work expire before December 31, 2002; and, if the work is published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright shall not expire before December 31, 2047. § 304. Duration of copyright: Subsisting copyrights6 (a) Copyrights in Their First Term on January 1, 1978.- (1)(A) Any copyright, in the first term of which is subsisting on January 1, 1978, shall endure for 28 years from the date it was originally secured. (2)(A) At the expiration of the original term of copyright in a work specified in paragraph (1)(B) of this subsection, the copyright shall endure for a renewed and extended further term of 67 years, which- 3)(A) An application to register a claim to the renewed and extended term of copyright in a work may be made to the Copyright Office- (i) within 1 year before the expiration of the original term of copyright by any person entitled under paragraph (1)(B) or (C) to such further term of 67 years; and (ii) at any time during the renewed and extended term by any person in whom such further term vested, under paragraph (2)(A) or (B), or by any successor or assign of such person, if the application is made in the name of such person. (B) Such an application is not a condition of the renewal and extension of the copyright in a work for a further term of 67 years. Applying this to Rails Northeast, the the copyright is 28 years from publication plus 67 more years. Obviously the effect of all of the above is that the work never comes into the public domain while it is germaine. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Tom von Trott" Subject: Re: [PRR] Rails Northeast article Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:58:10 -0400 Well, since it does not look like we are all going to get to read it I'm still going to torture myself and ask about details of the article. What is it about, time period, etc. Obviously it's about someone on second trick at thorn, other details I mean. If it sounds good I'll have to watch for a copy of the mag. Tom von Trott ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:56 AM Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast article > My absolute all time favorite PRR train article is "Second Trick at Thorn" in the 11/83 Rails Northeast. I must read this at least once a year. Since it is now over 17 years old so the copywrite has probably run out and the publisher is dead would it be possible to post this on Keystone Crossings for others enjoyment? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rorie317@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 21:54:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Rails Northeast Article So, whatever happened to Rick Erben, the author of Second Trick at Thorn? If memory serves he also wrote an article about being a block operator in the Philly Terminal area. It would be great to hear some of his stories! Don Surowitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Happy Anniversary! Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:05:00 -0400 Congratulations and Thanks, Jerry! Words can't describe the service you have done for subscribers and lurkers to the "List" Carl P. Izzo PRRT&HS #832 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 22:24:44 -0400 From: davep Subject: [PRR] PRR film clip, most misplaced I ferget which list had the recent thread on PRR clips, 'guest' film appearances. DSC channel, cable, 'Third Reich and the Occult' (just run), about 6 minutes before the end, with little relation to the narration, has some shoots of rail rushing by, then: an overhead shot, three loks, at speed: One GG1 One Streamlined PRR Steamer (I can't ID) and another which I can't ID either... Clearly a PR shot, from an airplane, mid '30s. NOTHING to do with the program content. best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CRIPNUT@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:32:30 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO Brass I'm fairly new to modeling the Pennsy and am looking to purchase some HO brass steam engines. I know there have been a plethora of units done over the years and was hoping I could get some input on what to get, and what to avoid. I'm not willing to waste the kind of dollars needed to buy recent offerings, so bear in mind that $500.00 is tops for any loco. I'm looking to stable some L-1's and I-1's for a future Elmira Branch layout set in late 1955. I want good, reliable, accurate models, and am willing to improve where needed if it doesn't require a machine shop! I'm looking at PFM and Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under $500.00. What are the pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? What about Bowser? I'd hate to move to 1958 and run just diesels, Pennsy steam is why I'm doing this. Help! Brian Shumaker "In granger territory" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 01:00:13 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass In a message dated 10/3/01 9:40:40 PM Central Daylight Time, CRIPNUT@aol.com writes: << 'm looking at PFM and Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under $500.00. What are the pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? What about Bowser? >> I have a Bowser 2-10-0 with a Cary boiler and a helix humper to go in it (need to mill out the Cary boiler to fit). I put it on the back burner to buy an old United I1 for $200, add a NWSL high torque, low-speed can motor, a decoder, grit blast the tarnish off and paint. For about $270, I have a DCC-equipped good-looking loco which is a hauler and will crawl quietly at a few miles per hour if I desire. Depending on who built the Sunset, the United may be more rugged than the later brass for operations purposes. My old Gem J1 cost me $300 painted. I again added the NWSL motor, MVP lighted lenses and a decoder and weathering. It will pull about 36 NMRA-weighted hoppers up a curving 1.5% grade Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 23:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass Brian, list, I can't comment on the brass (my only brass engines are a Lambert H6sb and an Alco E5s), but I can comment on the Bowser I1sa. I built mine piece by piece using an old Bowser I1sa (small boiler) and the new Bowser boiler and cylinders. I bought the superdetail kit piece by piece (graduate school was a bit on the pricey side). I bought the (then) Alco Products repower kit and added it to the existing chassis. The engine runs superbly with the dual flywheels; I'm glad I didn't have to regear the engine to get flywheels. Don Harper has posted at length (check the archives) about correctly detailing the Bowser I1sa; he's done very exhaustive research on the surviving I1sa 4483 and on other I1sa engines as well. I only wanted one I1sa. I think the current Bowser kit makes a very nice model with the (now) Alliance Locomotive repower kit. I've assembled about 10 Bowser steamers and several MDC steamers over the years; I like building kits and the fine tuning that is part and parcel of the building experience. Most recent (and some older) brass seems to run well right out of the box. Whether you pick brass or Bowser, model from photographs of the real thing; details on both kit steam and brass may need to be changed to reflect your prototype in 1955. One word of warning: the February 2000 MR article on modeling I1sa engines has a number of inaccuracies, particularly in the twin air pump version and in the short tender. Doug --- CRIPNUT@aol.com wrote: > I'm fairly new to modeling the Pennsy and am > looking to purchase some HO > brass steam engines. I know there have been a > plethora of units done over > the years and was hoping I could get some input on > what to get, and what to > avoid. I'm not willing to waste the kind of dollars > needed to buy recent > offerings, so bear in mind that $500.00 is tops for > any loco. I'm looking to > stable some L-1's and I-1's for a future Elmira > Branch layout set in late > 1955. I want good, reliable, accurate models, and > am willing to improve > where needed if it doesn't require a machine shop! > I'm looking at PFM and > Sunset as they are the only thing I can find under > $500.00. What are the > pitfalls and pleasures of each? What am I missing? > What about Bowser? > I'd hate to move to 1958 and run just diesels, > Pennsy steam is why I'm > doing this. Help! > > Brian Shumaker > "In granger territory" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:03:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Experienced N Scale Modeler(s) Needed From: Jerry Britton "Merchandise Service" is in need of N scale models for display at shows. Unfortunately, we never seem to develop the time to assemble, paint, and letter display units. If anyone on the list considers themselves an advanced N scale modeler (for quality, not because of complexity) and has some time on their hands, I would be interested in exchanging product for your work in assembling our samples. Photos of the units would also appear on our web site, with credit to the builder. Kits that we need built include: East Wind: PLC70, P70KR, P70GSR Des Plaines Hobbies: P85BR Brass Car Sides: 10-6, 4-4-2, P85BR, 10-5, 13BR Laser Horizons: Twin Diner, 4-4-2, 10-6, 12-4, 6L, 3-1-L, etc. We would supply all materials. If you have a track record, interest, and time, please contact me off-list. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CRIPNUT@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:23:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO Brass Thank you all for the responses to my query. The concensus seems to be go with PFM for good, solid runners, which is what I suspected. Bowser seems to be the least attractive option. I'll bet the final bill for a remotered, fully detailed L-1 is equal to, if not more, than a PFM. As to Lambert, how is their H-6sb? I'm thinking of modeling the Marion branch as a cheaper and smaller version of Pennsy rather than the entire Elmira Branch. Is a Railworks worth the extra dollars? Gee, did I mention cabins? Which is the best for the dollar. I've had a Sunset N5c which looked nice, but I had to add underbody detail. But they are cheap! Thanks again, Brian Shumaker ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Brass Brian, For years the Lambert H6sb was the only one available. Then came Sunset and then the Railworks version. Here I believe is where the saying "you get what you pay for" does not apply. I have had the Lamberts in my hands at differnt times. This one still stacks up against the high priced Railwork release. Personally I have the Sunset H6sb which I purchased when it was first released for about 220. I like it a lot. Smooth and quiet just like the Lambert but for a 150+ bucks less and close to 300+ bucks less than the Railworks. You should be happy with either of the 3 versions. It is just the idea of what you want to spend. For cabin cars, Precission Scale cabins hard to beat but can be pricey as well.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 10:34:54 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Thursday Update Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, The dinner reservation list now stands as follows: Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Mark Lehman (2) Sam Vastano indicated that he would probably not be able to make the dinner. Sam - If your schedule permits, please join us at 6:30. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:02:32 -0400 Hi Gang, Need some advise. I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) without damaging the plastic. I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this paint isn't the least bit affected. Anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks Buzz PRRT&HS #271 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:44:14 -0400 Buzz:- Two thoughts, but try them on a small piece first. 1. Spray the piece with Easy-Off oven cleaner, place in a sealable plastic bag (i.e. a "baggie") and leave overnight. 2. Get some Floquil ELO (Easy Lift-Off) and follow directions. Both have worked better than brake fluid for me. Also, have heard horror stories about making plastic brittle using brake fluid. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burnley, Charles" To: Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: [PRR] Removing paint > Hi Gang, > > Need some advise. > I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) > in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. > How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) > without damaging the plastic. > I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this > paint isn't the least bit affected. > Anyone have any suggestions?? > Thanks > > Buzz > PRRT&HS #271 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Mahon Subject: RE: [PRR] Removing paint Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 14:59:57 -0400 I have used Easy-Lift-Off with success. You need a well ventilated area and rubber gloved that are rated to protect you from a solvent (Home Depot or Loew's, etc., usually a hideous orange color.) Tom Mahon -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles [mailto:Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:03 PM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] Removing paint Hi Gang, Need some advise. I am in the process of modeling a PRSL Baldwin AS16 (BS16ms) in 'O'Scale, using a Williams AS616 plastic shell. How do I safely remove the existing paint (red & white, lettered Soo) without damaging the plastic. I have always used automotive brake fluid with great success, but this paint isn't the least bit affected. Anyone have any suggestions?? Thanks Buzz PRRT&HS #271 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:40:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest Forecast From: Jerry Britton Unfortunately, looks like the weather will not be cooperating with us for RailFest this year. Weather Channel web site forecasts the following: Saturday - Rain, high of 61 Sunday - Scattered showers, high of 50 Accu-Weather has a slightly better outlook on conditions, but lower estimates for temps. Real shame, given Bennett's restored E-8's are pulling the excursions. Really hoped to get a few good shots of Tuscan Red comin' round the Curve! I plan to go either way (Sunday). I already have tickets, including for the 1:25 excursion. My son (Andrew, all but 4) will be along and will be happy with the ride and the museum. P.S. I'll be photographing the E-8's as they cross the Rockville Bridge around 7:15 a.m. on Saturday morning. They'll be on Amtrak's "Capitol West". Train is scheduled to leave Harrisburg Station at 6:45, with a stop at the fuel pad. It took the recent "Northern Express" about 1/2 hour to reach the site of the former ROCKVILLE tower with its fuel stop. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:46:37 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest Forecast FWIW: The unofficial/unconfirmed departure time is now 7:45 w a stop for fuel. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > Unfortunately, looks like the weather will not be cooperating with us for > RailFest this year. Weather Channel web site forecasts the following: > > Saturday - Rain, high of 61 > Sunday - Scattered showers, high of 50 > > Accu-Weather has a slightly better outlook on conditions, but lower > estimates for temps. > > Real shame, given Bennett's restored E-8's are pulling the excursions. > Really hoped to get a few good shots of Tuscan Red comin' round the Curve! > > I plan to go either way (Sunday). I already have tickets, including for the > 1:25 excursion. My son (Andrew, all but 4) will be along and will be happy > with the ride and the museum. > > P.S. I'll be photographing the E-8's as they cross the Rockville Bridge > around 7:15 a.m. on Saturday morning. They'll be on Amtrak's "Capitol West". > Train is scheduled to leave Harrisburg Station at 6:45, with a stop at the > fuel pad. It took the recent "Northern Express" about 1/2 hour to reach the > site of the former ROCKVILLE tower with its fuel stop. > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:44:56 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest Forecast From: Jerry Britton On 10/4/01 4:46 PM, Bennett Levin at (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > The unofficial/unconfirmed departure time is now 7:45 w a stop for fuel. > Thanks for the update...may be too late with my plans for Saturday. If it does work out, certainly will provide more light. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Well, no matter what the weather, I'm still going to have a good time. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Thursday Update Hoss's Dinner Reservations Hello Mr. McGhee, I will try to make to Hoss's on Saturday night. Myself and some friends from Philly and New York City will going to various rail hangouts but we'll try to make it. Maybe two or three of us. Regards, Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:49:12 -0700 Hi list... The other night I was at the hobby shop and was going through the last Champ catalogue when I noticed that they were offerning a special T-1 decal set. Has anybody seen or Champ wants for it? Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:57:11 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Now that's the spirit!!!!!! Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: > > Well, no matter what the weather, I'm still going to have a good > time. > Dave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? Guys, For those going to Altoona, just hope it dosn't turn into Rainfest.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:25:12 -0400 The T-1 sets will be done on a custom basis only on an ALPS printer; no sets will be made for stock. The later T-1 set is the one mentioned in the catalog for $15.00 in HO. Mr. Meyer also has the artwork for the original lettering scheme used on #6110 and 6111 with the large herald in circle on tender. He wants $22.00 for that set in HO. No need to price shop; there is no dealer discount for these two sets. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: billd@gci-net.com To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: [PRR] Champ T-1 decals >Hi list... >The other night I was at the hobby shop and was going >through the last Champ catalogue when I noticed that they >were offerning a special T-1 decal set. Has anybody seen or >Champ wants for it? > >Bill Daniels >Tucson, AZ > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Rain for Railfest? If it starts to rain at Horseshoe, close your eyes and pretend it's just cinders from two J1s with a mile of forty ft. boxcars headed west with a set of F3s pushing on the cabin car. Or for the pure steam fan, two I1s shoving hard on the cabin car. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:30:41 -0400 From: "Richard Poole" Subject: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:04:39 -0400 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Penn station Baltimore help! Hello all... Recently i received one of CMR's (Custom Model Railroads) large station kits. While this kit is'nt a exact match to Baltimore's Penn station,it is based on the station. (The owner of CMR told me about this last year and for those who have the kit you can tell what its based on.) I've been going thru the kit to see what small changes i'll have to make to have it come out even closer to the real station. Now here is where i need a little help. The east or north end (St. Paul st. side) of the station is fine the way it is. And except for the street level floor windows ,the front and back is fine as it is. (ok...i need to add the clock and columes on the front). Anyway....I have the spring issue, 1995 issue of the Keystone with Frank Wrables article on the station and the PRR in Baltimore. While the article (and some modern day pics and video i also have) is my best source for information on the station and has lots of pictures of it, i need to find out about a minor change to the west or southern end of the station (Charles st. side). One picture in the article shows that side in 1923 with an entrance door (not the concourse doors) near the concourse and to the left. Then later a 1978 picture shows the door moved to center of the wall with double pane windows to the left and right of it as it is today. Its been that way as long as i can remember, and i was born in 1957. During the early 1970's my dad sometimes worked as station master there and it was that way then too. I'm modeling Baltimore between 1946 and 1954. Do any of you guys have a idea when this change was made ? Anyone out there have a picture of this end of the station in the years that i'm modeling ? I have a 1958 floor plan but am not sure how accurate it is. I need to find out before i start putting this end of the station together. As always....i can use all the help i can get. Perhaps when i get it done....or as i go along i'll post pics of it. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:59:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Crestline Roundhouse: Good News From: "William J. Ayers" List, I've made several posts to the List about the Crestline PRR roundhouse, mostly about disappointing results of several efforts to have it listed as an historical place. This time I have some good news to pass along. Ron Widman has been keeping me up to date as to it's fate and this time it is encouraging. The owner and one of his employees are in the process of cleaning it up, removing years of trash, debris, graffiti, and decay. One of the owner's employees has moved onto the property into temporary living quarters to act as a watchman as well as one of the main workers for the clean up. He has plans to turn the former powerhouse into a restaurant and railroad museum and eventually to live there permanently. The owner also has plans to use the former machine shop area as a storage facility for his construction equipment. Both men are keenly aware of the importance of this former PRR facility not only as a piece local history, but also the importance of it on the PRR. They want to keep this alive. As a part of the clean-up efforts, they have moved a small herd of goats onto the property and, according to the owner, if they are not fed, "they will eat nails." They will be steam cleaning, replacing windows, repairing woodwork, grooming and landscaping the grounds, etc. The City of Crestline is excited about the work being done there. Also, Crestline has received a grant to study the feasibility of using the land that the yards once occupied for an industrial park. Anyone who is familiar with Crestline's former political attitude will recognise this as a major step forward. If all of this comes together as it is envisioned, it will breathe new life into the roundhouse, keep it's history alive, and help the economy of Crestline. And if all goes well, perhaps the Crestline Roundhouse could be an exciting side trip to the PRRT&HS annual meeting at Cinncinati! Remember, this is the only extant USRA roundhouse (designed by PRR engineers) in the US, and was the home for the S1, S2, T1s and Q2s. As I receive further updates, I will pass it along. Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:45:41 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Richard Poole wrote: > > A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. Rich, The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to . I always feel obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an accurate history. Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 06:19:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's From: Jerry Britton On 10/5/01 1:45 AM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > Richard Poole wrote: >> >> A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of >> the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that >> address? THANX >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > Rich, > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > . I always feel > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > accurate history. "thousands of hours"? Let's see, just one thousand hours at 40 hours a week (a full-time job), that would take 25 weeks. Wow, that's dedication!!! There are also pics from the Northern Express excursion at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/northernexpress2001/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 06:29:49 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 10/5/01 1:45 AM, prrbill at (prrbill@Op.Net) wrote: > > > Richard Poole wrote: > >> > >> A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of > >> the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that > >> address? THANX > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > Rich, > > > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > > . I always feel > > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > > accurate history. > > "thousands of hours"? Let's see, just one thousand hours at 40 hours a week > (a full-time job), that would take 25 weeks. Wow, that's dedication!!! Jerry, You're correct. Between the time spent at Juniata Terminal (one year), travelling sometimes 7 days a week and the time in front of the computer to make up the layout, upload and then 'tweak' the photos to make the best possible, it was dedication. As a webmaster, I'm sure you spend thousands of hours to make sure your site is as good as it gets. So why the sarcasm? Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:05:54 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Check this out. I also think there are some good photos on Jerry Brittons site and on a NS Buffalo Line Site. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?f=2&i=40417&t=40417 Bennett prrbill wrote: > > Richard Poole wrote: > > > > A couple of weeks ago, one of you PRR guys had a collection of photographs of the 5806 and the 5711 on a website. Could someone please send me that address? THANX > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > Rich, > > The restoration of #5809 and #5711 at the PRRT&HS website. Go to > . I always feel > obliged to state that my buddy Steve Agostini, the PRRT&HS webmaster, > spent literally thousands of hours on this photo essay to ensure an > accurate history. > > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:23:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] USRA structures In a message dated 10/5/01 1:12:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Remember, this is the only extant USRA roundhouse (designed by PRR engineers) in the US, and was the home for the S1, S2, T1s and Q2s. >> Can anyone add info on USRA roundhouses? I've heard before that Crestline was a USRA design - it's mentioned in the Q2 book. But I've no idea how many, where, etc. Were there USRA designs for other structures? Thanks, Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:34:48 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's Hi Bill, All, Bill, you may be hasty in labeling Jerry's comment as sarcasm. I don't know Jerry's intent but reading his post one could take it at face value and conclude that he is indeed impressed at the dedication shown in the prep of the photo-essay. As a webmaster I am fairly sure that Jerry has a very good idea of the commitment involved. I'm not primarily defending Jerry or stating his intent. He is capable of doing that himself. I am just trying to show an alternate way of perceiving his post. Thanks, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:49:40 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations Greetings to the group, The dinner reservation list now stands as follows: Dennis Sautters Mark Lehman Drew McGhee Mark Lehman (2) Sam Vastano (3) Greg Stone (?) Dave Hopson (3?) The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing through the Juniata Shops in the morning. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:59:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations From: Jerry Britton On 10/5/01 12:49 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: > The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests > are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very > enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley > View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing > through the Juniata Shops in the morning. > Thank you, Drew, for hosting this once again. Sorry I can't make it. ALERT to those attending, there are TWO Hoss's in Altoona, which is why Drew is taking the time to indicate "Valley View Blvd.". Please make sure you are headed to the correct one! Enjoy! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Friday Update (Final) Hoss's Dinner Reservations On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, Jerry Britton wrote: > On 10/5/01 12:49 PM, Drew McGhee (drm6@psu.edu) wrote: > > > The question marks (?) indicates that those individuals and their guests > > are going to try to make the dinner. I'm looking forward for a very > > enjoyable evening with you all. I'll meet you at Altoona Hoss's (Valley > > View Blvd. at 7th Street) at 6:30. Remember to say hello when passing > > through the Juniata Shops in the morning. > > > Thank you, Drew, for hosting this once again. Sorry I can't make it. > > ALERT to those attending, there are TWO Hoss's in Altoona, which is why Drew > is taking the time to indicate "Valley View Blvd.". Please make sure you are > headed to the correct one! Well, sorta. There are two in the area. Only one is technically in Altoona, but yes, be careful you're going to the right place. -D -who has a family thing to do instead :-/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:02:20 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP54 Boxes Guys, Back in April I sold some brass MP54's to someone when I was still living in Australia. I have since found the boxes and wish to forward them. Unfortunately I have forgotten who this was. If the missing person is in one of these groups would he please contact me offlist. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:57:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures From: "William J. Ayers" Rick, et al, I have a newspaper article from the Crestline Advocate of Feb. 7, 1990 that states that The Austin Company of Cleveland, OH built nine USRA roundhouses in Ohio during WWI for the Pennsylvania Lines, the only two I know the location of are Crestline and Stark, Ohio (Canton). The one in Canton is said to have been identical to Crestline's. The design that PRR engineers came up with was adopted by the USRA. I don't know what year the USRA adopted the plans, but the Crestline roundhouse was built 1918-20. I don't know if there were other types of structures designated USRA design. The focus of my research is Crestline, so I don't have much info on other locations. I know this isn't much, but I hope it helps. Bill Ayers > Can anyone add info on USRA roundhouses? I've heard before that Crestline > was a USRA design - it's mentioned in the Q2 book. But I've no idea how > many, where, etc. Were there USRA designs for other structures? > > Thanks, > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 21:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Rick, Supposedly the roundhouse at Mingo Jct. was a USRA type. Also wasn't Northumberland too?....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:44:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] BENNETT LEVIN's E-8a's From: Bill on 10/5/01 4:34 PM, Ron Dugas at rond@efn.org wrote: > Hi Bill, All, > > Bill, you may be hasty in labeling Jerry's comment as sarcasm. I don't > know Jerry's intent but reading his post one could take it at face value > and conclude that he is indeed impressed at the dedication shown in the > prep of the photo-essay. As a webmaster I am fairly sure that Jerry has > a very good idea of the commitment involved. I'm not primarily defending > Jerry or stating his intent. He is capable of doing that himself. I am > just trying to show an alternate way of perceiving his post. > > Thanks, > > Ron. Ron, Thanks. I was wondering during the day if I had misinterpreted what Jerry had said. SO: Jerry, if I misunderstood your intent, I apologize. Still much too easy to put my foot in my mouth, especially over the Internet. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:34:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Guys, >From my understanding the Roundhouses at Mingo Junction, Crestline, Canton, and I believe Conway and Wellsville, OH were all USRA designs. My brother has the list somewhere as he ran them down for me not to long ago as an idea for a future article he might work on. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:33:41 -0400 Greg and List, I've been following the discussion about "USRA" roundhouses with considerable interest. Is there any documented evidence that they were actually USRA designs? For example, any documents issued by USRA? Did any other railroad build them? Some years ago, after we rescued the drawings from the Pittsburgh Station, I found the drawings for these roundhouses in that collection. There was no reference on the drawings to USRA. The title block said "PRR Co. Western Lines, Type A Engine House, Office of Chief Engineer - Const., No. 18477". Dates for the various sheets ranged from June 15, 1918 to September 20, 1918. This was during the period of USRA control, and PLW would have had to get USRA approval to build anything. But, that doesn't make them USRA designs. I have assumed they were a Lines West standard design. The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 The design was such that 52 stalls would have made a full circle. There's no guarantee that all of these were actually built. Some notes from another source show that in 1919 work was stopped on Mosier, Mingo Jct., and Jeffersonville. It is also possible that other locations on PLW received this style of roundhouse. It was often the practice to issue separate sets of drawings for different locations, even when using a common design, instead of trying to note every design change and option on the same set of drawings. For example, there was a different set of drawings for Wellsville - a very similar design with 9 stalls, but built much closer to the turntable and with a stall angle that would have resulted in just 32 stalls for a full circle. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures | Guys, | | From my understanding the Roundhouses at Mingo Junction, Crestline, Canton, | and I believe Conway and Wellsville, OH were all USRA designs. My brother | has the list somewhere as he ran them down for me not to long ago as an idea | for a future article he might work on. | | Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR)Correct Font for Number Boards Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:20:37 -0400 Group, What is the correct font for the numbers on Number boards on PRR Steam Locos? I have and idea on how to make them. If it works I will let the group know of my results. Thanks in advance. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:24:05 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Newark Station question There is an abandoned railway overpass just west of the Newark station. What line was this and when was it taken out of service? Did it use Newark station? Thanks, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] USRA structures - Chicago? Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:42:23 -0500 Greg, Bob, and List; Can the Chicago 59th St. Roundhouse be added to this list of standard design? Pictures of this enginehouse have been very difficult to come by (at least for me). If you have the NJ International book Pennsy Q Class, compare the photos in P24 and P36. P24 shows Crestline, and P36 shows the roofline of Chicago. I realize this is not much evidence, but they look very similar. On a related note, does anybody have any basic information on the 59th St. Roundhouse? I'm looking for things like # of stalls, turntable length, etc. If anybody has photos for sale, I'd be interested as well. Thanks, Andy -----Original Message----- Bob listed some enginehouses sharing a standard design: The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Rorie317@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:43:32 EDT Subject: [PRR] newark penn station overpass If memory serves this was the CNJ Newark branch ending at a station west of Broad St and south of Market St. Don Surowitch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 22:51:14 -0400 From: Chris Brandt Subject: Re: [PRR] Newark Station question Isn't that an old CNJ line into Jersey City? Greg Johnson wrote: > > There is an abandoned railway overpass just west of the Newark station. What > line was this and when was it taken out of service? Did it use Newark > station? > -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:44:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Newark Station question The "Aldene Plan" to consolidate CNJ passenger service into Newark Penn Station went into effect on Sunday, April 30, 1967. At this time CNJ trains from the North Jersey Coast began to operate to Newark Penn Station rather than to CNJ's Jersey City terminal; CNJ mainline trains were rerouted east of Cranford onto the Lehigh Valley at Aldene, then into Newark Penn Station through Hunter interlocking. CNJ service to Newark and the one or two rush hour trains that detoured into Kearney over the CNJ's Passaic River bridge were discontinued, and the CNJ Jersey City terminal and ferries to Liberty Street were abandoned too. A shuttle train continued to operate as far as 33 St, Bayonne, from Cranford (and maybe further west at times) for years. Another thing that happened at the same time, I believe, was that the PATH fare was standardized at one rate of 30 cents everywhere on the system; up to that point, the old PRR-established ticket system was in effect, with the fare being everywhere 30 cents except to Harrison and Newark, where you needed a ticket which cost 40 cents. So fares to Newark actually decreased with the new scheme. You can still see where the PATH ticket window was at Newark, under track 1 roughly at the south end of the eastern cross-passage (and nowheres near the regular ticket windows, where the CNJ had then to establish its own ticket windows, at the west end of the window block, I recall). Another anomaly caused by the Aldene Plan was the rerouting of the two Reading Company trains to Philadelphia from Jersey City to Newark Penn Station; you thus had the interesting situation of the Reading's Wall Street or Crusader trains (actually RDCs at that point) leaving across the platform from a PRR Clocker! It was fun to make a circle trip to Philly using RDG and PRR. And to go to the CNJ window at Newark Penn and ask for a ticket to Philadelphia, having to convince the agent that yes, you did want to use the Reading's service! Yes, the overhead bridge at the west end of the Newark Penn Station platforms was part of the CNJ line; I believe the viaduct is still in place as far as the abandoned CNJ station on Broad Street, which was still there too last I looked. It's not easy to spot if you are just driving down Broad Street, because all you see is the front, which looks more like a bank, but the CNJ inscriptions were still in place not long ago. The viaduct ends at Penn Station but once continued through the heart of the bustling Ironbound section of Newark; it's hard to believe it once existed there, but if you walk the streets around the houses and Portuguese restaurants you can guess from the gaps in the buildings where it once stood! On April 29-30, 1967, I rode some of the last trains out of Jersey City and Newark, and early the next morning was on the first train into Penn Station from Cranford; they ran a full weekday schedule on that Sunday to test it. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Day" Subject: [PRR] Round roof-no doors. Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 09:49:33 -0400 List, Talking to a fellow SPF here in the Panhandle Division yesterday and he was telling me that probably in the late 50's that there were round roof boxcars with no doors being sent from Weirton, WV across the bridge to Steubenville, OH. Upon inspection one day he saw that there were 2 steel coils in each end of the car. He thinks that they were travelling incognito from Weirton Steel to then Wheeling Steel to fill orders. He mentioned that there was a very heavy steel bar across the doorway held on by a couple of "S" clips and felt that they were only removeable by a forklift or something. Anybody have any info on this or photos? Guess this is one of the rarities that took place on the Panhandle Division. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:01:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2001 Report From: Jerry Britton I attended RailFest 2001 in Altoona yesterday. BOY WAS IT COLD!!! Started the day at Cresson, 35 degrees, windy, 6:15 a.m. Rail traffic was very light. First train by was a load of auto racks with two units at head and none on the back. Went on over to Gallitzin. The Jackson Street Bridge is undergoing renovation. Looks like perhaps they are adding railfan support. Took a few pics of westbounds from the site of the westbound passenger station. Headed over to a site near the former eastbound passenger station. Extremely low traffic. Most eastbound freights were being routed over the traditionally westbound track two. We waited on caught the first excursion turning the loop and re-entering the main at AR. Headed back to Cresson for a few minutes. They had a street fair going on. Then headed to Horseshoe Curve. Again, still light traffic. Caught an eastbound truc-train. Then photo'd the second excursion going west. Beautiful! Then down to Altoona where we tailgated behind Station Mall. Took many more pics, then rode the 1:25 p.m. excursion. Having ridden it before, I didn't expect it to be a big deal. It was all for my son. However, when we rounded that first curve and I could see those Tuscan Red E-8's up front, I have to see my eyes welled up a bit. Boy!!! Then went to the museum so Andrew could push some of the many buttons that make things work. Of course I had to quiz him later about the position light signals!!! Then headed to the Juniata Shops...which should not have even been on the bill!!! NS basically slammed the door on the railfan community. We were told that due to the immense animosity against NS over the closing of Hollidaysburg that they thought it a security risk. Everyone is 90% sure NS will be closing Juniata within the year... another 1300 jobs. They had two NS and one CSX loco on display, the model room, their propeganda car, and business car #3. That was it!!! Back to Station Mall and watched the mains for another 45 minutes before heading out. I'll have about 40 pics online later today. I've already made the thumbnails and just need to enter them into the web database. Give me a few more hours! To Bennett Levin: Thank you for making the E-8's and #120 possible for RailFest. Not only from me (I told you that personally yesterday), but from the hundreds (thousands?) who don't know how to contact you. Many people asked me for your mailing address, which I couldn't supply, just so they could write and thank you. Some may find your address, but for those who can't, please know that there are MANY, MANY people who wish to extend their sincerest gratitude for bringing the PRR back alive, even if just for a few hours. THANK YOU BENNETT!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:46:57 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2001 Report I really want to thank all of those, who tanked me, for supporting Railfest. There is one thing that I really believe the Railfan Community should know about NS. In spite of the hard feeling in Altoona about the shops and the lack of a full shop tour this year, NS provided a much more significant opportunity for all of us in allowing the E-8s out on their railroad for two whole days. If you noticed they did not run "push-pull" as the MARC sets did in prior years. They ran as intended which required extra dispatching, tying up the main track between WORKS and ALTO whenever the run-around was made. Max Solomon stayed in Pittsburgh to monitor the Dispatchers at Greentree, he sent one of his most experienced people (whose name escapes me for the moment) to monitor operations at ALTO. Stan MacIntyre, the NS RFE at ALTO, went out of his was way to ensure that everything was in order including sending a helper to send the rail at Gallitzen prior to the first trip. NS could have just as easily "SAID NO". This is not a perfect world as we all are now realizing. NS and their people were perfect hospitable hosts for the special train that was really the highlight of the weekend for those who came out of their bunkers to see something that many believed they would have never seen again. We were an anomaly on their railroad and they took the risk and supported the museum and the event. Yes, there was a villain in all of this, but it was NOT NS! One day I'll write a book. I am glad all of you who saw the engines and the train enjoyed yourselves. That is what it is all about. I would also like you to acknowledge the efforts of my son Eric who really did all the hard work, and the Conrail Shared Assets people who got us out of Philadelphia on Friday night. Bennett Jerry Britton wrote: > > I attended RailFest 2001 in Altoona yesterday. BOY WAS IT COLD!!! > > Started the day at Cresson, 35 degrees, windy, 6:15 a.m. Rail traffic was > very light. First train by was a load of auto racks with two units at head > and none on the back. > > Went on over to Gallitzin. The Jackson Street Bridge is undergoing > renovation. Looks like perhaps they are adding railfan support. Took a few > pics of westbounds from the site of the westbound passenger station. > > Headed over to a site near the former eastbound passenger station. Extremely > low traffic. Most eastbound freights were being routed over the > traditionally westbound track two. > > We waited on caught the first excursion turning the loop and re-entering the > main at AR. > > Headed back to Cresson for a few minutes. They had a street fair going on. > Then headed to Horseshoe Curve. Again, still light traffic. Caught an > eastbound truc-train. Then photo'd the second excursion going west. > Beautiful! > > Then down to Altoona where we tailgated behind Station Mall. Took many more > pics, then rode the 1:25 p.m. excursion. Having ridden it before, I didn't > expect it to be a big deal. It was all for my son. However, when we rounded > that first curve and I could see those Tuscan Red E-8's up front, I have to > see my eyes welled up a bit. Boy!!! > > Then went to the museum so Andrew could push some of the many buttons that > make things work. Of course I had to quiz him later about the position light > signals!!! > > Then headed to the Juniata Shops...which should not have even been on the > bill!!! NS basically slammed the door on the railfan community. We were told > that due to the immense animosity against NS over the closing of > Hollidaysburg that they thought it a security risk. Everyone is 90% sure NS > will be closing Juniata within the year... another 1300 jobs. They had two > NS and one CSX loco on display, the model room, their propeganda car, and > business car #3. That was it!!! > > Back to Station Mall and watched the mains for another 45 minutes before > heading out. > > I'll have about 40 pics online later today. I've already made the thumbnails > and just need to enter them into the web database. Give me a few more hours! > > To Bennett Levin: Thank you for making the E-8's and #120 possible for > RailFest. Not only from me (I told you that personally yesterday), but from > the hundreds (thousands?) who don't know how to contact you. Many people > asked me for your mailing address, which I couldn't supply, just so they > could write and thank you. Some may find your address, but for those who > can't, please know that there are MANY, MANY people who wish to extend their > sincerest gratitude for bringing the PRR back alive, even if just for a few > hours. > > THANK YOU BENNETT!!! > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 11:08:17 -0400 With the evidence that Bob Johnson has produced regarding the title block linking the "USRA" design roundhouses directly to the PRR perhaps the connection with the USRA was that they being the managers of the railroad just approved the installation as designed. This is not substantiated, just my speculation. I recall seeing similar government approvals during the WWII era when capital projects involving critical war materials required U.S. Government approval. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 15:58:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest pics From: Jerry Britton I've posted my RailFest photos... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/photos/ Use the keyword "railfest". With my purchase of a digital camera, I decided to develop a database to maintain my new digital library. I just wrote the code today. If you find any problems or interface issues, please contact me off-list and let me know what browser, its version, and what version of operating system you are using. Thank you. Enjoy the pics! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR "O" Scale 2E-F2 Crown freight trucks Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:57:27 -0400 1. Anyone know anything about a PROTOCRAFT Company in San Francisco who was supposed to produce a PRR pre W.W.II 2E-F2 Crown freight truck. An undated notice said, "Coming Soon" . The brass truck was supposed to have been made from master patterns by S. M. Grabowski. They were to be available in both Proto:48 and Scale versions. BTW: I have three PRR tender doghouses done by Mr. Grabowski, but obtained from another source. 2. Can anyone provide a bio on Mr. G.??? All the best to you and yours Weldon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:00:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] USRA? roundhouse for Jeffersonville cancelled In a message dated 10/8/01 1:11:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA structures From: "Bob Johnson" Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:33:41 -0400 Greg and List, I've been following the discussion about "USRA" roundhouses with considerable interest. Is there any documented evidence that they were actually USRA designs? For example, any documents issued by USRA? Did any other railroad build them? Some years ago, after we rescued the drawings from the Pittsburgh Station, I found the drawings for these roundhouses in that collection. There was no reference on the drawings to USRA. The title block said "PRR Co. Western Lines, Type A Engine House, Office of Chief Engineer - Const., No. 18477". Dates for the various sheets ranged from June 15, 1918 to September 20, 1918. This was during the period of USRA control, and PLW would have had to get USRA approval to build anything. But, that doesn't make them USRA designs. I have assumed they were a Lines West standard design. The drawings show the following locations and number of stalls: Stark E.H., Canton - 30 Crestline E.H. - 30 Mosier E.H. - 21 [Where was this?] Mingo Jct. E.H. - 15 Jeffersonville E.H. - 15 Scully E.H. - 34 The design was such that 52 stalls would have made a full circle. There's no guarantee that all of these were actually built. Some notes from another source show that in 1919 work was stopped on Mosier, Mingo Jct., and Jeffersonville. It is also possible that other locations on PLW received this style of roundhouse. It was often the practice to issue separate sets of drawings for different locations, even when using a common design, instead of trying to note every design change and option on the same set of drawings. For example, there was a different set of drawings for Wellsville - a very similar design with 9 stalls, but built much closer to the turntable and with a stall angle that would have resulted in just 32 stalls for a full circle. Bob Johnson >> Bob, I'm very glad to have your input on this subject, as I'm almost completely snowed here. One bit of confirmation -- we've never uncovered anything locally about a new roundhouse at Jeff (Jeffersonville IN). We know that the PRR/PCC&StL/Jeffersonville Madison & Indianapolis had a small roundhouse and turntable in downtown Jeffersonville that survived into the twentieth century -- we can identify its site. We also know that the Louisville 14th Street roundhouse (more on it in the next Keystone) appears on Sanborn maps of the 1905 era and lost the south 4 to 5 of its original 12 stalls by a 1941 Sanborn. A new roundhouse across the river, collocated with the "new" Jeffersonville Yards northwest of downtown Jeff, would have been advantageous. 14th Street was about 1.5 miles south of the freightyards, across the mile-long Ohio River Bridge, and in the middle of a double track rail corridor so congested (200 moves a day) that it was CTC'd in 1941. Also, 14th Street had a turntable too short to turn J1's and T1's, which had to seek a wye back north of the Bridge. Apparently, what happened instead is that 14th Street remained the engine terminal, through the end of steam (locally in 1953), and was still standing in 1961, when it probably had already been replaced by the two-stall metal engine house alongside Jeffersonville Yard. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:24:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] RE: (PRR) Correct Font for Number Boards From: John Sheets Sam I have a copy of PRR plan 60146, PRR Standard Letter and Figures for Signs and Notices, although for building and signs thereof, might be a good start. Let me know snail mail address and I will send copy. John > Subject: (PRR)Correct Font for Number Boards > From: "Sam Vastano" > Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 18:20:37 -0400 > > Group, > > What is the correct font for the numbers on Number boards on PRR Steam > Locos? I have and idea on how to make them. If it works I will let the > group know of my results. > > Thanks in advance. > > > Sam Vastano > So many hobbies so little time! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Great Time at Railfest 2001 Hello List, Well I got back today from the Railfest and I had a real good time. It was nice meeting all of you at Hoss's on saturday nite. We didn't think we whould make it. After chasing the Es all day from Alto to AR,we were beat! I rode the private car on Sunday morning and it was on the tail end of the train. It was a great ride. I shot about five rolls of film from the back of the train. I don't know what to say about those E8s. I just had to stand there for a minute or two and just look at them. Mr. Levin did a great job on them and did an even better job by sharing them with the rest of the world. Bennett, If you are out there, you must someday tell that story you told me at the Station Mall about that "Villan" who almost stopped the Railfest dead in it's tracks. ..........................and the villan is not Norfork Southern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:37:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] H22 photos Hi All, I was about to place an order for some H-22 Builders photos with the Hagley Museum when I was very surprised to see none were listed in the published "Altoona Collection" listing from the Pennsy Journal. I have searched all of the usual PRR books. Even John Teichmoeller's awesome hopper book does not have what I was hoping to find. I have 2 cars painted and waiting for decals. They have the "saw tooth" hoppers and the extended sides have been completely filled in with steel. That point is not as important as the hopper doors. I am looking for as late of a photo as possible and preferably PRR Builders photos. I doubt that any were painted Shadow Keystone, so Circle Keystone will do fine. I have asked the lists before with out any success. So here is my enhanced offer: A 3 for one photo exchange for any CLEAR side, 3/4, or end photo of an H-22 as described above so I can decal my cars. You can pick from my PRR Builders Photo collection here: http://users.snip.net/~billlane/PRRphotos.xls You have to have Excel to open it. I will email you the photos we are trading. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H22 photos Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:37:16 -0400 Hi All, I was about to place an order for some H-22 Builders photos with the Hagley Museum when I was very surprised to see none were listed in the published "Altoona Collection" listing from the Pennsy Journal. I have searched all of the usual PRR books. Even John Teichmoeller's awesome hopper book does not have what I was hoping to find. I have 2 cars painted and waiting for decals. They have the "saw tooth" hoppers and the extended sides have been completely filled in with steel. That point is not as important as the hopper doors. I am looking for as late of a photo as possible and preferably PRR Builders photos. I doubt that any were painted Shadow Keystone, so Circle Keystone will do fine. I have asked the lists before with out any success. So here is my enhanced offer: A 3 for one photo exchange for any CLEAR side, 3/4, or end photo of an H-22 as described above so I can decal my cars. You can pick from my PRR Builders Photo collection here: http://users.snip.net/~billlane/PRRphotos.xls You have to have Excel to open it. I will email you the photos we are trading. Please reply to billlane@snip.net Thanks Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:08:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Thank You Bennett, Thank You Thank You Bennett, While I know is has been said before, thank you for the awesome rolling tribute to the Mighty Pennsy this past weekend. Kodak and Fuji should be thanking you too. We rode on the Saturday afternoon train. It gave me a sense of being on the PRR like I have never had before. How can you not be having the absolute time of your life right now knowing you are the only person in the world who can do this? I often say that "NOBODY plays Pennsy like Bennett can!!!!" I attended last years Railfest. I thought there were a lot more people there this year. Is there anyone in an official capacity on the list to confirm attendance figures? Thanks for telling the NS side of the story to us. I never would have thought of that. Well, there is a 10 thank you limit per email for which I far exceeded. Thank you (again), Bill Lane ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] Thank You Bennett, Thank You Thank You Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:08:25 -0400 Bennett, While I know is has been said before, thank you for the awesome rolling tribute to the Mighty Pennsy this past weekend. Kodak and Fuji should be thanking you too. We rode on the Saturday afternoon train. It gave me a sense of being on the PRR like I have never had before. How can you not be having the absolute time of your life right now knowing you are the only person in the world who can do this? I often say that "NOBODY plays Pennsy like Bennett can!!!!" I attended last years Railfest. I thought there were a lot more people there this year. Is there anyone in an official capacity on the list to confirm attendance figures? Thanks for telling the NS side of the story to us. I never would have thought of that. Well, there is a 10 thank you limit per email for which I far exceeded. Thank you (again), Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:32:02 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Other=Keystone Ring Listers, To show my allegiance to "THE RAILROAD" a bit more I have had a "Keystone" ring made. I am offering copies of these rings to anyone interested. For more information contact me off list. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia From: Jerry Britton Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in mind... Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton N scaler's: Contact your dealer of choice for reservations... ;-) Bowser has released part numbers for their forthcoming H-21a's. They are due in January for a "suggested" retail price of $12.95. They will be ready-to-run with Crown trucks and couplers (non-Micro-Trains). There are 12 numbers of each of the decorated versions. Undec Circle Keystone Circle Keystone "Coal Goes To War" Shadow Keystone "Early Lettering" ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Date: Tue, 9 Oct 101 13:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Jerry Britton scribit: > > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? Hmm ... I thought possibly the A&S (east-west) and the NC, but I see from my PRR ETT (1960s) that the NC was E-W too. Here's one for you, though: The Cumberland Valley, when built as the CVRR, was east-west. The PRR changed it to N-S. The A&S and NC (per my ETT) were east-west. Yet at LEMO, where they cross (CV and NC at grade, CV and A&S not at grade), the north-south CV is oriented east-west, whereas the east-west NC/A&S are oriented north-south. COnfused yet? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Schock Subject: [PRR] New to list! I am happy to have found this list! I had a little trouble getting on board (something about HTML and plain test), so I went back to the old standby (yahoo). Now about me! I have just started model railroading within the last year, and chose the PRR and B&O (I know what a pair)! I really want to model the region where I currently live which would include NYC, N&W among others! I decided modeling several railroads at once would be expensive and tough! So I went with what I had at the time which was a PRR GG1 and some B&O! So here I am! I am coming back from the train show and Protoype modelers meet in Cleveland so I am tired and excited about model railroading! I picked up a set of PRR heavy weights, and discovered that my K4 would do fine for that! I also have a set of 8 smooth side B&O cars coming, but thats another list :) Well I am glad to be here, and I cant wait to start reading soem good info on the PRR :) ===== Mike Schock Sandusky, Ohio Modeling the B&O and PRR during the Transition Period __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 15:56:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia This is in no way an attempt to answer Jerry, but in poring over maps looking for a simple solution, I thought of another puzzlement. On the Long Island Rail Road, when the Rockaway lines were operated as a complete loop (Jamaica Bay trestle, then through Far Rockaway and back via Valley Stream), the timetable direction must have changed at some point. How was this handled? Did an eastward movement suddenly become westward at some point? (Possibly at the wye at the southern (timetable east?) end of the trestle?) Of course this is pre-1950 or so, before the trestle burned and the subway took over. John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:57:24 -0400 From: Kevin Trichtinger Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Jerry Britton wrote: > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? Between BECK and MONON, the Scully Branch and the Monongahela Branch shared the right-of-way on parallel tracks. The Monongahela Branch was north-south, and the Scully Branch was east-west. Peace Kevin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LeeRainey@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:44:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia In a message dated 10/9/2001 5:10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ktrick45@icubed.com writes: << Between BECK and MONON, the Scully Branch and the Monongahela Branch shared the right-of-way on parallel tracks. The Monongahela Branch was north-south, and the Scully Branch was east-west. >> This jogs a memory of a possible answer to Jerry's question which alas I have no way of checking at the moment as I am on the road in business. Between Caldwell and Belle Valley, OH, the Ohio River & Western narrow gauge and the ex-Cleveland & Marietta (both controlled by the Pennsy) paralleled each other and at one point shared the same ties with a third rail for the narrow gauge. The C&M on the map is north-south. The OR&W on the map is east-west. I do not have the reference documents to check this, but, depending on how the Pennsy viewed the timetable direction of these lines, could this be a case of the anomaly Jerry is loooking for? Lee Rainey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:35:43 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] whistle/air horn question Hello all: Does anybody know what the notes (or frequencies) used on the various steam whistles and first generation diesel air horns were? I know there are many different versions of air horns (Nathan/Leslie different number of chimes)... Is this info available anywhere? Thanks, Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:23:46 EDT From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] whistle/air horn question Here's a pretty cool website on airhorns: http://atsf.railfan.net/airhorns/ They even have sound samples. --Joe In a message dated Tue, 9 Oct 2001 7:47:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeff Warner writes: > Hello all: > > Does anybody know what the notes (or frequencies) used on the various > steam whistles and first generation diesel air horns were? I know there > are many different versions of air horns (Nathan/Leslie different number > of chimes)... Is this info available anywhere? > > Thanks, > > Jeff Warner > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "erik seidelmann" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:25:41 +0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Pittsburgh Line(E-W) and Buffalo Line (N-S) between Duncannon and west side of Rockville and South Ferry and east side of Rockville? -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia > Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... > > There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in > mind... > > Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of > those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Have you downloaded the latest calling software from Net2Phone? Click here to get it now! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=NH211JK&url=http://commcenter.net2phone.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "erik seidelmann" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:29:13 +0800 Subject: [PRR] Fw: Fwd: Railfest 2001 -----Original Message----- From: Sd40blue@aol.com Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:56:44 EDT To: eman@hot-shot.com Subject: Fwd: Railfest 2001 -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Have you downloaded the latest calling software from Net2Phone? Click here to get it now! http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=NH211JK&url=http://commcenter.net2phone.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:57:33 -0400 Group, Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units in HO scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I would rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. PS also have a B unit. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger hensley" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:02:25 +0800 Subject: [PRR] test Linda sent pictures with her message. I have uploaded them to the web rather than forward them to everyone. The pictures are great and can be seen at: http://madisonrails.railfan.net/uncle.jpg I'll let her message tell it all without further comment from me. Roger Hensley --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "L. Wendelaar" To: "rhensley_anderson@juno.com" Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:16:20 -0400 Subject: Lost Caboose Dear Mr. Hensley, My name is Linda Wendelaar. I am hoping that you can help me locate a model caboose. Let me start at the beginning. My uncle, Ralph Wendelaar, lived in Spruce Head, Maine, and was a model caboose builder and member of the National Model Railroad Association. His Pennsylvania Lines Cabin Car NEA No. 997482 won the coveted "Brass Lantern" award at the 43rd annual NMRA convention in August, 1978, in Dearborn, Michigan. He also won a second place award for his Erie Caboose No. 04732. As of 1978, he had hand built 123 cabooses. In 1979, he made a dollhouse for me from scratch. It sits on a table behind me as I type this. My Uncle Ralph passed away suddenly in December, 1983. My aunt, needing the money, sold his vast collection of model cabooses to an antique dealer in Rockland, Maine. She never informed my father of her decision, nor offered him any of the models. I don't know whether she was too embarrassed to tell him that she needed the money, or what her motivation was. My father found out months later on his visit to Maine to see her. Years later, in a visit to Maine, my older brother, Bill Jr., located the Erie No. 04732 in an antique shop!! The dealer was asking alot for it, but gave my brother a discount when he found out the history behind the model. It proudly sits in his living room today. The reason I am writing to you is that my father has wondered now for years what happened to the Pennsylvania Cabin Car, my Uncle's pride and joy. I have the newspaper article from "The Courier Gazette" dated Saturday, August 19, 1978, that he sent us showing him and his caboose. I would love to solve the mystery of who owns the caboose today and where it is located so that I could tell my Dad. I would be eternally grateful if you could pass this e-mail on to any members that you know of who may know where it is. I have scanned pictures of the caboose, and of the newspaper article. I know it's a long shot, but in this day and age of e-mails, perhaps it could be located. I would be thrilled to tell my Dad and my brothers that I found it. Thank you so much for any help you can give me. Sincerely, Linda Wendelaar 11 Mott Drive Vernon, New Jersey 07462 dutch1@warwick.net (973) 209-4252 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger hensley" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:13:59 +0800 Subject: [PRR] Wrong subject - test Test should have been Fwd: Lost Caboose Roger -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:11:40 -0500 Sam--You asked-- > > Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units in HO > scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I would > rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. > Champ has what you need but you better get them while you can. You need EH-78P (Pass. Diesel--Bronze Gold 5-Stripes) and HH-1 30" Herald Bronze Gold & Red (In Circle). Have fun! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Nebinger" Subject: [PRR] Advice Needed Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 00:07:32 -0400 Greetings List! I have been one of the silent lurkers on the list for a month now. I am just getting into model railroading(other than assisting my father in law with his Milwaukee Road layout) and would appreciate some advice. I am going to model PRR and Harrisburg/Enola. I grew up in Enola (which is alone spelled backwards :) and my great grandfather worked for PRR. That is why I am choosing this area. After doing some beginning research, I have picked 1954 to model. My reasoning for this pretty much coincides with Mr. Britton's. You have the most flexibility modeling this year. Now for the requests: 1. Scale. HO or N? The only area that I have available to me is a corner in the basement that is approx. 12' square. The walls already exist on 3 sides, and I do not really want a duck-under. A month ago I would have said HO definitely, but now I am beginning to ponder N, as I am having trouble designing a track plan in HO that will have at least 18" radius curves. I have not purchased anything yet, so my idea is to start off with one scale and be satisfied. 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only research I can do is over the internet. Are there any magazines that you would recommend I subscribe to? Though on a trip to Strasburg last month, I did purchase a book on passenger coaches at one of their shops. Definite next time is the museum across the street. 3. Any other advice given would be greatly appreciated. The closest hobby shop is about an hour away, so I can't lurk there. Sorry if I rambled a bit. But after being in the planning stage for over a month, I am anxious to get started working with my hands! Michael Nebinger Winston-Salem, NC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:07:58 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Cincinnati Train Show sponsored by local NMRA division Nov 17-18. PRR models In a message dated 10/9/01 5:59:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:42:16 -0000 From: jkendig@blomand.net Subject: Lines West Fans Fest In October of last year, Rick Tipton mentioned that a Lines West Fans Fest might be scheduled for the NMRA Division Seven Meet at Covington this November. Does anyone know about the Division Seven affair or the Lines West Fans Fest? I am a new subscriber to Pennsy West and do no live in the area encompassed by Division Seven. Any information on this event would be appreciated. >> Hi all, Thought I had already sent an answer to this query, but my outfile says not, so it must have been lost in a recent computer crash -- Division Seven's Train Show (not to be confused with a regular NMRA Division meeting) is a big event that is held every year the weekend before Thanksgiving. Thus, this year's event will be on Saturday November 17 and Sunday November 18. For years, this show was held at Cincinnati Gardens, but more recently has moved to an even larger venue across the river in northern Kentucky, at the Covington Convention Center -- I believe it's the first exit south of the I75 bridge if you're coming from the north, and a few blocks east. This locally-sponsored train show is roughly the size of many Great American Train Shows, but with greater focus on the work of local modelers and local rail interest organizations. I expect it will draw larger attendance than the GATS show scheduled the same weekend but an hour south of it in Lexington KY. Always on hand is a large display of high quality Pennsy models by PRRT&HS' Cincinnati modeling group. Likewise B&O, NS/N&W/SOU and L&N groups are usually well represented. I went online last October (also on the phone) and tried to suggest that the Train Show would be a good weekend to piggyback another Lines West Fans Fest. The first LWFF was two years ago in Xenia in the spring. Unfortunately, nobody in the Cincinnati area took the bait, and I was too far away to organize it. However, the November show is still a good place for Pennsy fans to meet (I'll be up there on Saturday the 17th). The other good news is that it appears that PRRT&HS will be holding their annual meeting in Cincinnati in a couple of years -- a first-ever event out here on Lines West. The PRRT&HS annual is always held the first Saturday in May, which of course means I always miss Derby Weekend in Louisville. I know plans are underway for a number of Lines West programs to be presented at that meeting. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:07:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cincinnati Train Show sponsored by local NMRA division Nov In a message dated 10/9/01 5:59:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PennsyWest@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 7 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:42:16 -0000 From: jkendig@blomand.net Subject: Lines West Fans Fest In October of last year, Rick Tipton mentioned that a Lines West Fans Fest might be scheduled for the NMRA Division Seven Meet at Covington this November. Does anyone know about the Division Seven affair or the Lines West Fans Fest? I am a new subscriber to Pennsy West and do no live in the area encompassed by Division Seven. Any information on this event would be appreciated. >> Hi all, Thought I had already sent an answer to this query, but my outfile says not, so it must have been lost in a recent computer crash -- Division Seven's Train Show (not to be confused with a regular NMRA Division meeting) is a big event that is held every year the weekend before Thanksgiving. Thus, this year's event will be on Saturday November 17 and Sunday November 18. For years, this show was held at Cincinnati Gardens, but more recently has moved to an even larger venue across the river in northern Kentucky, at the Covington Convention Center -- I believe it's the first exit south of the I75 bridge if you're coming from the north, and a few blocks east. This locally-sponsored train show is roughly the size of many Great American Train Shows, but with greater focus on the work of local modelers and local rail interest organizations. I expect it will draw larger attendance than the GATS show scheduled the same weekend but an hour south of it in Lexington KY. Always on hand is a large display of high quality Pennsy models by PRRT&HS' Cincinnati modeling group. Likewise B&O, NS/N&W/SOU and L&N groups are usually well represented. I went online last October (also on the phone) and tried to suggest that the Train Show would be a good weekend to piggyback another Lines West Fans Fest. The first LWFF was two years ago in Xenia in the spring. Unfortunately, nobody in the Cincinnati area took the bait, and I was too far away to organize it. However, the November show is still a good place for Pennsy fans to meet (I'll be up there on Saturday the 17th). The other good news is that it appears that PRRT&HS will be holding their annual meeting in Cincinnati in a couple of years -- a first-ever event out here on Lines West. The PRRT&HS annual is always held the first Saturday in May, which of course means I always miss Derby Weekend in Louisville. I know plans are underway for a number of Lines West programs to be presented at that meeting. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:31:30 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's Hi Jerry & list members, Anyone know yet what exactly "early lettering" is gonna look like? I can take a guess and say it's a no-keystone style, but has anyone actually asked the folks at Bowser or seen a drawing? - Claus (Stuck firmly in the year 1929) Date sent: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:47:52 -0400 Subject: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST > N scaler's: > > Contact your dealer of choice for reservations... ;-) > > Bowser has released part numbers for their forthcoming H-21a's. They are due > in January for a "suggested" retail price of $12.95. They will be > ready-to-run with Crown trucks and couplers (non-Micro-Trains). There are 12 > numbers of each of the decorated versions. > > Undec > Circle Keystone > Circle Keystone "Coal Goes To War" > Shadow Keystone > "Early Lettering" > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Caliciotti Jr." Subject: [PRR] PRR Railings Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:36:22 +0000 This is another great example of the Pennsy standardization. Most railroads used a different type of railing at every bridge or station. I could be way off, but I think the PRR cast stanchions were first made around 1910-1912 when the railroad began system-wide improvements of the right of way. I assume the railroad made its own railing castings, along with the whistle signs and mile markers. Any idea where this might have been done? Sam _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:19:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton On 10/10/01 1:31 AM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) wrote: > Anyone know yet what exactly > "early lettering" is gonna look like? > > I can take a guess and say it's a no-keystone > style, but has anyone actually asked the folks > at Bowser or seen a drawing? > Hate to assume, but if you go to Bowser's site (http://www.bowser-trains.com) and look under HO scale freight cars/H21, there is one that is labeled "early". These would be pre-Circle Keystone. For my 1954 modeling, I figure I'll get 2-3 of these, a half dozen CK "Coal Gows to War", and a dozen each of CK and SK. When additional numbers come out, I will only purchase CK. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:22:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia From: Jerry Britton On 10/9/01 9:25 PM, erik seidelmann at (eman@hot-shot.com) wrote: > Pittsburgh Line(E-W) and Buffalo Line (N-S) between > Duncannon and west side of Rockville and South Ferry and east side of > Rockville? Well there is the matter of the Susquehanna River in between, but that's a viable guess! > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Britton > Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0400 > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia > > >> Okay folks, get out your thinking caps for a bit of trivia... >> >> There may in fact be more than one answer, but I have one location in >> mind... >> >> Where on the PRR system did one branch parallel another branch AND one of >> those branches was timetable east/west and the other was north/south? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] HO or N and helping your PRR research Michael, list, Choosing a scale can provoke a list war. Independent of other considerations (I'll hop on my soapbox in a little bit), you can fit more of Harrisburg and what makes it special into your smaller space with N scale. N scale offers a chance for more scenery and more possibilities for varied operation in your smallish space. Here's where givens and druthers (one of John Armstrong's many excellent contributions to the hobby) come into play. What do you like to do? I like to build my equipment and detail it; I will submit (at the risk of being flamed by skilled N scalers) that HO offers a broader range of kits than N does. I have more time than money, so kits are a good way to stretch the hobby dollars I do spend. You can paint and decal HO or N scale models with equal ease. Do you like steam? It's easier to assemble an affordable collection of steam power in HO; Bowser and Bachmann have covered all of the engines you'll need for 1954. If you prefer brass steam, lots of good models have been imported in HO. In N scale, PSC imported excellent K4s models, while Key and others have brought N scalers beautiful H9s, M1s, etc in N scale. Plastic N scale diesels tend to run better than plastic N scale steam (Kato Mikados and Con Cor Hudsons excepted). GHQ offered a conversion kit (now out of production) to make the Kato Mikado into a PRR L1s; perhaps this could be your lone steamer in a sea of beautiful tuscan and dark green locomotive enamel colored engines (electric and diesel). By 1954, Harrisburg had mostly diesels and a modest fleet of steamers concentrated (but not exclusively) in classes K4s, M1/M1a/M1b, L1s, and H9s/H10s. What did you grow up with? I grew up with Lionels and then switched to HO scale at age 7 (returning to my roots, I do have an MTH K4s and H10s, but that's another story). If you're comfortable with N scale, by all means, go for it. As far as research, consider interlibrary loan. You can go to nearly any library, fill out an interlibrary loan slip for a book you'd like to borrow, and with a bit of patience (sometimes a few days, sometimes a few weeks), you can look at a PRR book before you purchase it to see if it will help your research. Before I could afford to buy Pennsy Power and Pennsy Steam: A to T, I borrowed them via interlibrary loan (I remember college fondly, except for being fiscally challenged). I'm a PRRT&HS member and recommend membership highly. Mainline Modeler has lots of projects for the transition era and they cover PRR on a fairly regular basis (publishing listmembers Kris Kollar and Greg Martin's very nice articles, to name but two). Doug fearful of the flames....grin --- Michael Nebinger wrote, in part: > Now for the requests: > > 1. Scale. HO or N? > > > 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only > research I can do is over the > internet. Are there any magazines that you would > recommend I subscribe to? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:30:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Advice Needed From: Jerry Britton On 10/10/01 12:07 AM, Michael Nebinger at (prrfan@triad.rr.com) wrote: > I have been one of the silent lurkers on the list for a month now. I am > just getting into model railroading(other than assisting my father in law > with his Milwaukee Road layout) and would appreciate some advice. I am > going to model PRR and Harrisburg/Enola. I grew up in Enola (which is alone > spelled backwards :) and my great grandfather worked for PRR. That is why I > am choosing this area. After doing some beginning research, I have picked > 1954 to model. My reasoning for this pretty much coincides with Mr. > Britton's. You have the most flexibility modeling this year. > > Now for the requests: > > 1. Scale. HO or N? The only area that I have available to me is a corner > in the basement that is approx. 12' square. The walls already exist on 3 > sides, and I do not really want a duck-under. A month ago I would have said > HO definitely, but now I am beginning to ponder N, as I am having trouble > designing a track plan in HO that will have at least 18" radius curves. I > have not purchased anything yet, so my idea is to start off with one scale > and be satisfied. You need to ask yourself: Do you want to model prototypically or freelance? There is no way, in HO, to make any sort of Enola Yard in that amount of space. I don't think you could even do it in N. If you want Enola, I'd consider N scale and just model the mouths of one of the yards. You've got two main lines exiting at the east by DAY tower. Or all the lines exiting to the west under the iron bridge. The Rockville Bridge could be a duckunder. I was HO all my life and then sold it all off for N about a year ago. > > 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only research I can do is over the > internet. Are there any magazines that you would recommend I subscribe to? > Though on a trip to Strasburg last month, I did purchase a book on passenger > coaches at one of their shops. Definite next time is the museum across the > street. The Triumph (Barnard Roberts & Co.) books are excellent for photos and plans of various areas, though the text contains some errors. Other book selections are too numerous to get into in a brief response. > > 3. Any other advice given would be greatly appreciated. The closest hobby > shop is about an hour away, so I can't lurk there. Find a dealer online. Two popular ones for N scale are Brooklyn Locomotive Works (http ???) and Rio Grande Hobbies (http://www.4nscale.com). My own "Merchandise Service" (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com) specializes in PRR in HO and N scale. > > Sorry if I rambled a bit. But after being in the planning stage for over a > month, I am anxious to get started working with my hands! > "Planning for over a month..." Heck, I've been planning since 1992!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:12:08 -0400 Thanks very much, Jerry B. do you have what I need??? If so contact me off list. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! >From: "Steve Hoxie" >To: >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks >Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:11:40 -0500 > >Sam--You asked-- > > > > Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units >in >HO > > scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I >would > > rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. > > >Champ has what you need but you better get them while you can. You need >EH-78P (Pass. Diesel--Bronze Gold 5-Stripes) and HH-1 30" Herald Bronze >Gold >& Red (In Circle). > >Have fun! > >Steve Hoxie >Pensacola FL > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:40:30 -0400 Subject: Private: Re: [PRR] PRR Branch Trivia Mea culpa, I don't have a PRR operating timetable showing the Harrisburg-Buffalo line, but my PC #5 from 1970 shows timetable direction (upstream) out of Harrisburg to be east-west. Did this change from PRR days? If not, then the river intervening notwithstanding, this does not appear to be a solution to your puzzle! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:15:24 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Digital Photography & Models From: Jerry Britton Jerry Breon was asking how I was making out with my new digital camera and taking photos of models. I decided to respond to the list, as I suspect there may be interest per our digital camera discussions of early August. I decided to purchase the Olympus C3040 Zoom. It is a 3.3 megapixel camera that comes with a 16MB card (21 "normal" pics). It runs off of four AA batteries, has an LCD display, can record QuickTime movies with sound, allows you to add sound annotations to still shots, has macro focus to 8" away, 10x optical/digital zoom. Through a supplied USB cable I can connect to my computer and the camera mounts as if a hard drive. I transfer files at hard drive speeds...not at the slower speeds folks are used to with serial cable connections. I also purchased a 64MB card which can hold 80 "normal" pics. Price was $699 from Ritz Camera. I am sure I am only scratching the surface of what this camera can do. In fact, everything I have shot thus far has been in totally automatic mode. You can not only set aperture or speed priority, you can also set ASA equivalents, shoot in black and white, or apply a sepia tone to a resulting image. All the RailFest pics I posted were taken in auto mode and only filled 1/2 of the memory card. As for models, the N scale Sharks from ER Models arrived yesterday. I took some pics which you can preview at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ms_shark.html If you click on one of the images, it will load the hi-res version in a new window. These hi-res versions are what I referred to as a "normal" pic. There are details I see in the pics that I hadn't even noticed to the naked eye. Can you believe these are N scale? I am not a camera expert, and I do not know how this camera fares vs. other cameras -- and discussion is not appropriate for this list -- but I am very pleased with my selection of the Olympus. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:29:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser HO scale GLa's Ship Tomorrow From: Jerry Britton Whoever your dealer of choice is, if you haven't reserved your Bowser GLa hoppers yet, you should do so IMMEDIATELY!!! When Bowser announced the cars, they set an advance reservation Suggested Retail Price (SRP) of $12.95 and pre-announced that upon shipping this SRP would increase to $13.95. Dealers may discount from these prices respectively. The GLa's are slated to ship tomorrow and Bowser has said that the price increase will go into effect at 9 a.m. ET tomorrow. If you haven't ordered yet, order somewhere, now!!! My "Merchandise Service" eStore will be cutting off orders at the $12.95 price around 7 p.m. this evening so that we have time to FAX in any adjustment orders that we need. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:49:41 -0700 Jerry and all, The war slogans pretty much disappeared immediately after the war. Probably most if not all were gone by 1946. One might be all you could reasonably expect to see (and that would be stretching it) as late as 1954...which was 9 years after the end of WWII. Bill Daniels On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:19:47 -0400 Jerry Britton wrote: > On 10/10/01 1:31 AM, Claus Schlund at (schlund@cwnet.com) > wrote: > > > Anyone know yet what exactly > > "early lettering" is gonna look like? > > > > I can take a guess and say it's a no-keystone > > style, but has anyone actually asked the folks > > at Bowser or seen a drawing? > > > Hate to assume, but if you go to Bowser's site > (http://www.bowser-trains.com) and look under HO scale > freight cars/H21, > there is one that is labeled "early". These would be > pre-Circle Keystone. > > For my 1954 modeling, I figure I'll get 2-3 of these, a > half dozen CK "Coal > Gows to War", and a dozen each of CK and SK. When > additional numbers come > out, I will only purchase CK. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:54:06 -0700 Sam...are these the freight sharks? If so, you will need the dulux gold ones (yellow) and not the bronze gold ones. Champ makes both the striping as well as the HH-1 in dulux gold as well as bronze gold. If you can find a set, the Champ GG-1 Blue Ribbon set will also work for this... (HO or O) I have a good stock of these on hand for all my future needs. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:12:08 -0400 "Sam Vastano" wrote: > Thanks very much, Jerry B. do you have what I need??? > If so contact me > off list. > > > Sam Vastano > So many hobbies so little time! > > > > >From: "Steve Hoxie" > >To: > >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks > >Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:11:40 -0500 > > > >Sam--You asked-- > > > > > > Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the > Pennsy shark units > >in > >HO > > > scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like > the color and I > >would > > > rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be > appreciated. > > > > >Champ has what you need but you better get them while > you can. You need > >EH-78P (Pass. Diesel--Bronze Gold 5-Stripes) and HH-1 > 30" Herald Bronze > >Gold > >& Red (In Circle). > > > >Have fun! > > > >Steve Hoxie > >Pensacola FL > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:14:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's From: Jerry Britton On 10/10/01 9:49 AM, billd@gci-net.com (billd@gci-net.com) wrote: > The war slogans pretty much disappeared immediately after > the war. Probably most if not all were gone by 1946. One > might be all you could reasonably expect to see (and that > would be stretching it) as late as 1954...which was 9 years > after the end of WWII. > "...all gone by 1946". They certainly weren't painting any more on after war's end, but were they actually taking the time to paint them off? With repainting typically only occurring when a car was shopped, I figure having 6 on my layout in 1954 would be realistic. I'll probably have 200 hoppers of various classes by the time I am done, so this will be, at best, 3% of the fleet. The "early lettering", at 2-3 units, would be up to 2% of the fleet. Probably a reasonable sampling, with heavy weathering applied. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Railings Hello List, Anyone who needs brass PRR railings can contact me on or off list. We have boxes of PRR railings for sale. I'll post prices later today. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:51:53 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Selling more Magazine Back Issues Folks, I'm consolidating my magazine collection down to a more storable level, and still have a good number of back issue mags I'd like to sell. Included are 1980's amd 1990's issues of MR and RMC, as well as 1970's-1990's Passenger Train Journal. I don't have all the issues as some are being kept and others have been sold off, but there is a fair selection still in the basement. I'm asking $1.35 an issue, PostPaid, and will certainly offer discounts on sizable purchases. Please advise offline if you're interested, and thanks for your time. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:15:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks From: Jerry Britton No such luck...sorry. On 10/10/01 8:12 AM, Sam Vastano at (svastano@hotmail.com) wrote: > Thanks very much, Jerry B. do you have what I need??? If so contact me > off list. > > > Sam Vastano > So many hobbies so little time! > > > >> From: "Steve Hoxie" >> To: >> Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks >> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 22:11:40 -0500 >> >> Sam--You asked-- >>> >>> Does anybody know who makes 5 stripe decals for the Pennsy shark units >> in >> HO >>> scale. I have the Roco ones but I don't quite like the color and I >> would >>> rather have 5 stripes. Any help would be appreciated. >>> >> Champ has what you need but you better get them while you can. You need >> EH-78P (Pass. Diesel--Bronze Gold 5-Stripes) and HH-1 30" Herald Bronze >> Gold >> & Red (In Circle). >> >> Have fun! >> >> Steve Hoxie >> Pensacola FL >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:55:44 -0500 Sam, Bill, and Greg--Nothing like stirring up a minor hornet's nest! We have to make a choice between "bronze gold" and "dulux gold" in our quest to find "buff". As Greg points out Microscale missed the mark as too yellow, so, IMHO, Champ is the only game in town for five stripes. Also you want to match the color that comes with the herald-in-a-circle to the color of the stripes. So, Sam--get a couple of photos and take your choice: use the numbers I gave earlier for "bronze gold" or for "dulux gold" use HH-5 for the herald and EH-378 for the stripes. And plan on some moderate to heavy weathering because neither color is right. Above all, have fun. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Nebinger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Advice Needed Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:51:30 -0400 Okay, first I do not want to start a "scale war" hehe. I picked the Harrisburg/Enola area because I grew up there. I picked 1954 so that I would not lock myself into steam or diesel decision. After awhile, I will probably run steam, diesel and electric. I am leaning towards N scale, due to my space limitations. I understand that if I have areas that are not readily accessible, that is where Murphy's law will hit, especially if it is a turnout. One of the things that is keeping my from committing to N scale is the greater amount of kits for HO (probably a wrong notion on my part.) As I am really just a beginner at modelling, I will be using kit structures to start with. Have to work my confidence level up. Painting, weathering, detailing.... This is a life long project that I am starting now with the hope that I can get my son involved as he gets older. He is almost 3 now. Plus it will give him another insight into his family history. Thank you for the advice so far. I really appreciate it. Mike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nebinger" To: "PRR Mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:07 AM Subject: [PRR] Advice Needed > Greetings List! > > I have been one of the silent lurkers on the list for a month now. I am > just getting into model railroading(other than assisting my father in law > with his Milwaukee Road layout) and would appreciate some advice. I am > going to model PRR and Harrisburg/Enola. I grew up in Enola (which is alone > spelled backwards :) and my great grandfather worked for PRR. That is why I > am choosing this area. After doing some beginning research, I have picked > 1954 to model. My reasoning for this pretty much coincides with Mr. > Britton's. You have the most flexibility modeling this year. > > Now for the requests: > > 1. Scale. HO or N? The only area that I have available to me is a corner > in the basement that is approx. 12' square. The walls already exist on 3 > sides, and I do not really want a duck-under. A month ago I would have said > HO definitely, but now I am beginning to ponder N, as I am having trouble > designing a track plan in HO that will have at least 18" radius curves. I > have not purchased anything yet, so my idea is to start off with one scale > and be satisfied. > > 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only research I can do is over the > internet. Are there any magazines that you would recommend I subscribe to? > Though on a trip to Strasburg last month, I did purchase a book on passenger > coaches at one of their shops. Definite next time is the museum across the > street. > > 3. Any other advice given would be greatly appreciated. The closest hobby > shop is about an hour away, so I can't lurk there. > > Sorry if I rambled a bit. But after being in the planning stage for over a > month, I am anxious to get started working with my hands! > > Michael Nebinger > Winston-Salem, NC > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Michael Nebinger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Advice Needed Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:59:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Advice Needed > On 10/10/01 12:07 AM, Michael Nebinger at (prrfan@triad.rr.com) wrote: > > > I have been one of the silent lurkers on the list for a month now. I am > > just getting into model railroading(other than assisting my father in law > > with his Milwaukee Road layout) and would appreciate some advice. I am > > going to model PRR and Harrisburg/Enola. I grew up in Enola (which is alone > > spelled backwards :) and my great grandfather worked for PRR. That is why I > > am choosing this area. After doing some beginning research, I have picked > > 1954 to model. My reasoning for this pretty much coincides with Mr. > > Britton's. You have the most flexibility modeling this year. > > > > Now for the requests: > > > > 1. Scale. HO or N? The only area that I have available to me is a corner > > in the basement that is approx. 12' square. The walls already exist on 3 > > sides, and I do not really want a duck-under. A month ago I would have said > > HO definitely, but now I am beginning to ponder N, as I am having trouble > > designing a track plan in HO that will have at least 18" radius curves. I > > have not purchased anything yet, so my idea is to start off with one scale > > and be satisfied. > > You need to ask yourself: Do you want to model prototypically or freelance? > There is no way, in HO, to make any sort of Enola Yard in that amount of > space. I don't think you could even do it in N. If you want Enola, I'd > consider N scale and just model the mouths of one of the yards. You've got > two main lines exiting at the east by DAY tower. Or all the lines exiting to > the west under the iron bridge. The Rockville Bridge could be a duckunder. > > I was HO all my life and then sold it all off for N about a year ago. I am going to freelance mostly. I do want to try and be historically accurate as much as possible, but I would like the freedom to part from accuracy too. > > > > 2. Research. I live in NC now, so the only research I can do is over the > > internet. Are there any magazines that you would recommend I subscribe to? > > Though on a trip to Strasburg last month, I did purchase a book on passenger > > coaches at one of their shops. Definite next time is the museum across the > > street. > > The Triumph (Barnard Roberts & Co.) books are excellent for photos and plans > of various areas, though the text contains some errors. Other book > selections are too numerous to get into in a brief response. > > > > 3. Any other advice given would be greatly appreciated. The closest hobby > > shop is about an hour away, so I can't lurk there. > > Find a dealer online. Two popular ones for N scale are Brooklyn Locomotive > Works (http ???) and Rio Grande Hobbies (http://www.4nscale.com). My own > "Merchandise Service" (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com) specializes in PRR > in HO and N scale. I will definitely check your Service out. There is a hobby shop here in town, but they refuse to order anything for me due to the amount they would have to order to get me one thing. > > > > Sorry if I rambled a bit. But after being in the planning stage for over a > > month, I am anxious to get started working with my hands! > > > "Planning for over a month..." Heck, I've been planning since 1992!!! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:49:35 -0400 Group, Thanks for all the info. I will have to ponder this one a while before I decide. I will weather them some But I don't like when they are too weathered..... Something to think about. Now if I can find time in the midst of building a house I will be in good shape. But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.. 32' X 36" Train room in the basement!!! Can't wait!! Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! >From: "Steve Hoxie" >To: "PRR-talk" >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) HO Sharks >Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:55:44 -0500 > >Sam, Bill, and Greg--Nothing like stirring up a minor hornet's nest! We >have to make a choice between "bronze gold" and "dulux gold" in our quest >to >find "buff". As Greg points out Microscale missed the mark as too yellow, >so, IMHO, Champ is the only game in town for five stripes. Also you want >to >match the color that comes with the herald-in-a-circle to the color of the >stripes. So, >Sam--get a couple of photos and take your choice: use the numbers I gave >earlier for "bronze gold" or for "dulux gold" use HH-5 for the herald and >EH-378 for the stripes. And plan on some moderate to heavy weathering >because neither color is right. > >Above all, have fun. > >Steve Hoxie >Pensacola FL > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:32:25 EDT Subject: [PRR] Question for HO Scalers I've been in "O" scale and haven't done anything with HO in almost 20 years - Thought I'd sold everything I had at flea markets. Recently, while looking for something else I found two fairly nice pieces: 1.) a Lambert brass X-29, nicely painted with metal wheeled trucks and 2.) a Gem (Olympia) brass G-5 4-6-0, unpainted and never run, in the original "green fuzzy" box. This is Gem # GN-119, made in Japan, and the "Certificate of authenticity" signed, initialed or stamped by many at the factory, indicates it was built in 1969. Also found new, never opened boxes, factory deco "PRR" AHM RS-2 and a "GE 1000 HP Locomotive" ( looks like an S-2) along with an Athearn Baldwin S-12 (has been assembled and run) and a Tuscan PA-1 (A) still "twist tied" in the original box Can anybody give me an idea of what these items might be worth, if anything, what a good return or opening bid on e-bay might be. Also came across many older freight cars Mantua, Varney and Ulrich - do these have value as antiques or should I donate or just pitch them? I have a feeling that they would not bring the cost of a flea market table, if I rented one. Anyone who is interested in any of these, please contact me "off list" Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:12:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Timetable Events -- Call For Entries... From: Jerry Britton It's soon gonna be Open House season. If your club (or large home layout) will be open to the public (or perhaps for list members), please submit schedule information for me to include on the Timetable page of Keystone Crossings. The URL is: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d Please include name of the event, sponsoring entity, URL to web site (if one), one or two sentences about event, date(s), time(s), location, contact info. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:55:39 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Future of the "Triumph" Series From: Jerry Britton Spoke with Dave Messer briefly at RailFest... Several months ago he e-mailed me that Triumph V would be out in Spring, 2002. It won't be. It will follow the practice of earlier volumes and will come out next fall. As previously announced, it is on the New York Division. Dave told me that the subject of Triumph VI will definitely be the Maryland Division. ;-) Dave also indicated that there would be a "surprise" for PRR fans in the spring. Anyone have any idea what's in the works? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:34:53 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Timonium Show- help with manufacturer Being in Houston, Texas, I will not be able to attend the Timonium show. Is there someone who is going to be there who could purchase some very inexpensive items from one of the exhibitors for me? I need 4-12 pcs, #1010, HO "brick panels" made by Korber models. think they are 89 cents apiece. Korber will be displaying at the show and hopefully they will have some there. I have some unfinished structures on my PRR Allegheny Terminal, waiting for these items. I have tried hobby shops all over the US and had no luck so far. Thanks, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:18:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale H21a's In a message dated 10/10/01 10:20:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << all gone by 1946". They certainly weren't painting any more on after war's end, but were they actually taking the time to paint them off? >> Not taking time off to repaint - but deferred maintenance during the war required massive renewal - rebuilding projects in the immediate post war era. Fer instance - take a look at Teichmoeller's time lines on the H-21 and H-31 classes The number of H-21's continued to increase - long after they stopped being built - because H-22's were converted into the class (I don't have the reference here - but there was a major upswing following WWll) - presume that the standard H-21's were also rebuilt at about the same rate. With the H-31's most of the "composites" (which might have had the slogan) were gone very quickly - on these, I've wondered why the wooden sides were not labeled STEEL (like Lucky Strike Green) has gone to war. RR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of the "Triumph" Series Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:25:06 -0500 I'm anxiously awaiting Triumph XXVI, Chicago Terminal Division -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 1:56 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Future of the "Triumph" Series Spoke with Dave Messer briefly at RailFest... Several months ago he e-mailed me that Triumph V would be out in Spring, 2002. It won't be. It will follow the practice of earlier volumes and will come out next fall. As previously announced, it is on the New York Division. Dave told me that the subject of Triumph VI will definitely be the Maryland Division. ;-) Dave also indicated that there would be a "surprise" for PRR fans in the spring. Anyone have any idea what's in the works? ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pennsyk4" Subject: [PRR] Athern Genesis F7 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:12:44 -0400 Hi all! New to the group, this is my first posting so if I error please speak up. On a visit to Keystone Crossings Site for detail parts list of Greg Martin's F7 Unit the last paragraph states that Greg will have an article coming out in MAINLINE MODELER magazine about the detailing job that he accomplished on the model. Does anyone know if this has already come out or when it will be? Was going to go ahead on my own, but if the article will be out soon I would rather wait. Thanks for any help. Pennsyk4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:37:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Future of the "Triumph" Series In a message dated 10/11/01 6:36:22 PM Central Daylight Time, ajc5150@home.com writes: << I'm anxiously awaiting Triumph XXVI, Chicago Terminal Division >> Sorry for the me-too, but me too! Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Railing prices Hello List, ******Pikestuff HO Scale 3-bar (or railing) in four 45ft sections with elbows,caps, and ballast shield..........$10.95 *******Pikestuff HO scale 2 bar (or railing) in four 45ft sections with elbows,caps, and ballast shield.........$9.95 Sorry, no "O" scale and no 85ft lenths Dave Hopson Ken Rideout ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:32:53 EDT Subject: [PRR] H21 lettering schemes - my guess In a message dated 10/10/01 6:57:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << With repainting typically only occurring when a car was shopped, I figure having 6 on my layout in 1954 would be realistic. I'll probably have 200 hoppers of various classes by the time I am done, so this will be, at best, 3% of the fleet. The "early lettering", at 2-3 units, would be up to 2% of the fleet. Probably a reasonable sampling, with heavy weathering applied. >> IIRC, there are only two lettering schemes that could have appeared on the H21 series before CK (the circle keystone). One is the 1926-1930 NK4 (no keystone 4), which is just like CK but omitting the PRR keystone-in-a-circle monogram. The other is NK3 (No Keystone 3, 1906-1926), which I believe is the H21's as-built lettering shceme. NK3 lettering has a single bar below the PENNSYLVANIA and above the car number, and of course no keystone monogram. The change from NK3 to NK4 was made as a result of a 1925 ARA change in required lettering practices for interchange (see a Car Builders Cylopedia, such as the 1953 edition). My guess is that Bowser's "early lettering" will be NK3, because it's more distinctive from CK. Since most coal hoppers' lettering had to be repainted periodically, if for no other reason than to keep the car lettering visible, my guess also is that in 1954, you'd have to search hard to find any NK3-marked hoppers. Naturally, photo evidence would cancel out all guesses, it's your railroad, and your mileage may vary. Enjoy these new releases and remember to celebrate a market where we can quibble over choices like this -- in two scales, yet. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Formerly operating the Panhandle Route in HO (Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968) And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:25:03 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Bowser HO Scale GLa Hoppers Have Shipped From: Jerry Britton For HO scale modelers interested in the Bowser GLa hoppers, all paint schemes were slated to ship from Bowser yesterday. I know of one dealer that actually received them yesterday. ;-) An excellent addition for HO scalers... now when can I get them in N scale? N scale H21a's -- ready to run with an SRP of $12.95 -- are due in January in the following schemes: "Early Lettering" Circle Keystone Circle Keystone "Coal Goes To War" Shadow Keystone Undecorated ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:29:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Two Morning Sun Books Announced From: Jerry Britton MSB just announced two more PRR books... ;-) "Pennsy Electric Years, Volume Two" is due in December. "PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, Volume 3" is due in January. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 20:35:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] Triumph 26 - not! In a message dated 10/12/01 1:11:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: RE: [PRR] Future of the "Triumph" Series From: "Andy Cich" Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:25:06 -0500 I'm anxiously awaiting Triumph XXVI, Chicago Terminal Division >> In 21 years, just in time for the next generation of railfans. Actually, I doubt that Messr's Messer and Roberts have anything to say about the PRR west of Pittsburgh. And they "know" that nobody west of Harrisburg PA or Frederick MD buys books, anyway -- we're all too busy getting in the corn crop and keeping the wood fire going under the 'still so we can buy shoes for the winter. Sorry -- but if we want any Lines West books, we're going to have to write them ourselves. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:58:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] H22a - the third try Hi All, Since there appears to be no H22a photos available with the circle Keystone, I was hoping someone could scan the side of their Bowser H22a http://users.snip.net/~billlane/bowserh22.jpg for me. Of course, the car number is not important. I cannot read the data information from this photo. Please scan it full size as a JPEG at about 300 DPI and send it to billlane@snip.net I never thought I would have to use a Bowser model as a reference, but I have no other choice. ANY help would be MOST appreciated! Thank You Bill ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] H22a - the third try Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:58:34 -0400 Hi All, Since there appears to be no H22a photos available with the circle Keystone, I was hoping someone could scan the side of their Bowser H22a http://users.snip.net/~billlane/bowserh22.jpg for me. Of course, the car number is not important. I cannot read the data information from this photo. Please scan it full size as a JPEG at about 300 DPI and send it to billlane@snip.net I never thought I would have to use a Bowser model as a reference, but I have no other choice. ANY help would be MOST appreciated! Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Re: Triumph XXVII Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:21:35 -0400 It ain't only lines west that doesn't get coverage. I'm a fan of the Buffalo Line, especially Williamsport, Renovo, and Emporium Jcn. I would guess that Triumph LXXVIII or so will address us! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:36:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H21 lettering schemes - my guess In a message dated 10/12/2001 7:46:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << My guess is that Bowser's "early lettering" will be NK3, because it's more distinctive from CK. Since most coal hoppers' lettering had to be repainted periodically, if for no other reason than to keep the car lettering visible, my guess also is that in 1954, you'd have to search hard to find any NK3-marked hoppers. >> Rick and all: I agree it is highly unlikey that any original paint scheme H21 family cars remainded in 1954. Most if not all of the H21 had been rebuilt at least once by that date. The possible schemes would be CK with pre 1952 freight car color paint (orangish), CK with post 1952 Freight car color paint and if after February 1954 newly painted shadow keystone for recently shopped cars. My other comment is, if this is a PRR layout, then about 50% of the PRR hoppers would be H21 family cars not 3%. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Triumph XXVII Date: Sat, 13 Oct 101 20:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Bill Bigler scribit: > > It ain't only lines west that doesn't get coverage. I'm a fan of the > Buffalo Line, especially Williamsport, Renovo, and Emporium Jcn. I would > guess that Triumph LXXVIII or so will address us! Hmm, or the Cumberland Valley or the Low Grade (the "other", NW Pa. Low Grade) or the Rochester Line or the Wilkes-Barre line or the Selinsgrove line or most of the Delmarva or ... Did I miss any Lines East lines with minimal coverage? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: [PRR] Signal bridges Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:55:58 -0400 Gentlemen looking for the dimensions of the signal target on PRR multi-track signal bridges. A friend of mine is finishing a photo etch project in N scale. The 40" size in MOW drawings seems a bit small. Anyone have access to a real one that can be measured? Thanks Mark Franke ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] New Stewart U25B Hi all, I was at the Timonium train show today and saw the new Stewart U25B. They are really nice. PRR and Penn Central paint schemes will be done. Fall Delivery. About $100.00 Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 20:53:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] Signal bridges Hi Mark & Bernard, Yes, 40" seems small. I don't have access to one, however, I do have a book which has the dimensions in it. PRR position-light signal target diameter is indicated as 4'4" (or 52"). This is from "The Model Railroader Cyclopedia 5th Edition Railroad Equipment Prototype Plans" - Claus From: "Mark Franke" To: , Copies to: "Bernard Kempinski" Subject: [PRR] Signal bridges Date sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:55:58 -0400 > Gentlemen > looking for the dimensions of the signal target on PRR multi-track signal > bridges. A friend of mine is finishing a photo etch project in N scale. The > 40" size in MOW drawings seems a bit small. Anyone have access to a real > one that can be measured? > Thanks > Mark Franke > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:06:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shell Hello list, I've finally finished (99%, haven't found a horn I liked yet) my Intermountain PRR F-7 shell. I purchased stock unmber 44006-01, the decorated PRR shell, numbered for PRR 9765. The diework is beautiful, but the paint is far too green (at the risk of starting yet another color debate....grin). I used Polly Scale's CNW green to match (nearly) the factory paint when I added the antenna set and lift rings. I'll live with it on this model, but my future purchases will be undecs for PRR units. I should note that the B&O unit I bought at the same time had beautiful factory paint that was, to my limited diesel knowledge, accurate. The passenger pilot is very nice; I like the option of closed or open doors. I added Cal Scale's 190-402 antenna support set and 190-415 lift rings to the model to bring it into conformance with it's prototype. I'll be adding the shell to one of my grandfather's myriad Athearn F7s to replace an earlier attempt at a PRR F7; I like the shell-only approach. Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 05:19:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shell In a message dated 10/14/01 2:15:08 AM Central Daylight Time, dougkisala@yahoo.com writes: << (at the risk of starting yet another color debate....grin). >> I won't bite on that one, but has anyone any comment yet on the GLA color from Bowser? Are they 40 useless lumps of plastic for pre-1952 modelers to join most of the rest of the decorated Bowser on the shelf or are they passable for freight car color? And what is the availability and price of undecs? Bob (grateful for the tooling, but ready to fire up the airbrush again) Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:31:17 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Triumph XXVII Mark Bej wrote: > > Bill Bigler scribit: > > > > It ain't only lines west that doesn't get coverage. I'm a fan of the > > Buffalo Line, especially Williamsport, Renovo, and Emporium Jcn. I would > > guess that Triumph LXXVIII or so will address us! > > Hmm, > or the Cumberland Valley > or the Low Grade (the "other", NW Pa. Low Grade) > or the Rochester Line > or the Wilkes-Barre line > or the Selinsgrove line > or most of the Delmarva > or ... > > Did I miss any Lines East lines with minimal coverage? > > -- > Mark If the Triumph series numbering increases as it works its way westward/northward, then are the Triumph books on the PRR in New Jersey going to have negative numbers? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "parkvarieties" Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shell Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 08:00:50 -0400 Doug and List Color of the GLa's is essentially the same as current Bowser H21's. In comparing the two models, the lettering on the GLa's is smaller and thinner than what is on the H21's (closer to scale size I believe) and the reweigh date is 6-39. Undec kits are readily available (they are cast in red plastic) at same list price as decorated models. Frank Brua -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, October 14, 2001 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shell >In a message dated 10/14/01 2:15:08 AM Central Daylight Time, >dougkisala@yahoo.com writes: > ><< (at the risk of starting yet another color > debate....grin). >> > >I won't bite on that one, but has anyone any comment yet on the GLA color >from Bowser? Are they 40 useless lumps of plastic for pre-1952 modelers to >join most of the rest of the decorated Bowser on the shelf or are they >passable for freight car color? And what is the availability and price of >undecs? > >Bob (grateful for the tooling, but ready to fire up the airbrush again) >Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Triumph XXVII Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 08:26:20 -0400 So much Pennsy, so few volumes of Triumph . . . . Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bej" To: "Bill Bigler" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Triumph XXVII > Bill Bigler scribit: > > > > It ain't only lines west that doesn't get coverage. I'm a fan of the > > Buffalo Line, especially Williamsport, Renovo, and Emporium Jcn. I would > > guess that Triumph LXXVIII or so will address us! > > Hmm, > or the Cumberland Valley > or the Low Grade (the "other", NW Pa. Low Grade) > or the Rochester Line > or the Wilkes-Barre line > or the Selinsgrove line > or most of the Delmarva > or ... > > Did I miss any Lines East lines with minimal coverage? > > -- > Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:42:30 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Signal bridges Claus Schlund wrote: > Hi Mark & Bernard, > Yes, 40" seems small. I don't have access > to one, however, I do have a book which has the > dimensions in it. > PRR position-light signal target diameter > is indicated as 4'4" (or 52"). > This is from > "The Model Railroader Cyclopedia 5th Edition > Railroad Equipment Prototype Plans" Decemebr 1981 Keystone (PRR T & H S pub) has an article on the history of Position Light Signals, with dimensioned drawings of the various versions. The 52" figure also appears there. > - Claus > From: "Mark Franke" > To: , > Copies to: "Bernard Kempinski" > Subject: [PRR] Signal bridges > Date sent: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:55:58 -0400 > > > Gentlemen > > looking for the dimensions of the signal target on PRR multi-track signal > > bridges. A friend of mine is finishing a photo etch project in N scale. The > > 40" size in MOW drawings seems a bit small. Anyone have access to a real > > one that can be measured? > > Thanks > > Mark Franke best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] G-26 Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:32:58 -0400 Can anyone enlighten me and tell me the difference between a G-26 and a G-26a gondola? Also can any one recommend an accurate set of brass/metal trucks. Thanks. Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: Re: [PRR] G-26 Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 20:53:32 -0400 >From Pennsy Color guide volume 2 the only difference I have found in the text is the G26a had an improved underframe. I haven't investigated the photo's to see if there are any other visual differences. Have you tried Rob's freight car site. Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Kollar" To: Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 8:32 PM Subject: [PRR] G-26 > Can anyone enlighten me and tell me the difference between a G-26 and a > G-26a gondola? Also can any one recommend an accurate set of brass/metal > trucks. Thanks. > > Kris > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:48:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 794 In a message dated 10/14/01 5:00:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 9 Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:37:11 -0400 From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: High Speed Duplexes (was T1 slipperiness) Steve said> "I recall some old Pennsy hands on a late-running Amtrak _Broadway Limited_referring to 130 plus running on the Fort Wayne." =============== If someone was to open up a locomotive for all its worth, the PFW&C (Ft. Wayne Line) would be the place. I have always been told the PRR's longest tangent was between Plymouth and Valpo, IN. I can't pin down the mileposts as I can't find my old track chart. Al - former Supervisor-Track, Plymouth, IN. >> Holy cow, Al, there are some long tangents west of Toledo Jct. (according to my reprint by Bob Reid): Bucyrus MP 201 to Upper Sandusky MP 216 Upper Sandusky MP 217 to E. Delphos MP 273 with one minor curve Van Wert MP 288 to Mike (Fort Wayne) MP 319 Junction MP 321 to W. Vandale MP 342 Warsaw MP 360 to Valparaiso MP 422 with 3 minor curves What a racetrack! What a shame it's not still that way! Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:48:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 794 In a message dated 10/14/01 5:00:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: << Message: 9 Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:37:11 -0400 From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: High Speed Duplexes (was T1 slipperiness) Steve said> "I recall some old Pennsy hands on a late-running Amtrak _Broadway Limited_referring to 130 plus running on the Fort Wayne." =============== If someone was to open up a locomotive for all its worth, the PFW&C (Ft. Wayne Line) would be the place. I have always been told the PRR's longest tangent was between Plymouth and Valpo, IN. I can't pin down the mileposts as I can't find my old track chart. Al - former Supervisor-Track, Plymouth, IN. >> Holy cow, Al, there are some long tangents west of Toledo Jct. (according to my reprint by Bob Reid): Bucyrus MP 201 to Upper Sandusky MP 216 Upper Sandusky MP 217 to E. Delphos MP 273 with one minor curve Van Wert MP 288 to Mike (Fort Wayne) MP 319 Junction MP 321 to W. Vandale MP 342 Warsaw MP 360 to Valparaiso MP 422 with 3 minor curves What a racetrack! What a shame it's not still that way! Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "CSX Enterprise, Chief Engineer" Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:56:11 +0000 Subject: [PRR] The Reverse Snowbird Hello Listers, It seems that for Domestic reasons I will soon find myself relocating from the sunny climes of Tampa Bay to the shores of Mosquito Lake at Cortland Ohio, near Warren. At Least it will be in Pennsy country and the new digs will have suitable RR space in the basement. Could any of you who live in the Warren-Youngstown area provide me with a list of Pennsy attractions in the area. I'm familiar with the Ashtabula division and the area around Niles/Girard. Are there any clubs (HO) in the area and what about hobby shops besides Ayers (?) down in Boardman. A Radius of 30-40 miles from Warren would be enough for now. Somewhere down the road there might be a 3500 sq. ft Florida Pool home with 450 sq.ft. train room, with layout, appear on the market. Not too sure about that yet though. Please reply off list to CSXENTERPRISE_CHE@CSXLINES.RYDEX.COM so we don't clutter up the list. Thanks in advance, Dave McNeil, Chief Engineer CSX Enterprise ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 794 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:35:31 -0400 You said: "What a racetrack! What a shame it's not still that way!" If it were, Amtrak would be limited to 20mph by speed restrictions for bad track! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:48 AM Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] Digest Number 794 > In a message dated 10/14/01 5:00:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > PRR@yahoogroups.com writes: > > << > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:37:11 -0400 > From: "Al Buchan" > Subject: RE: High Speed Duplexes (was T1 slipperiness) > > > Steve said> "I recall some old Pennsy hands on a late-running Amtrak > _Broadway Limited_referring to 130 plus running on the Fort Wayne." > =============== > If someone was to open up a locomotive for all its worth, the PFW&C (Ft. > Wayne Line) would be the place. I have always been told the PRR's longest > tangent was between Plymouth and Valpo, IN. I can't pin down the mileposts > as I can't find my old track chart. > > Al - former Supervisor-Track, Plymouth, IN. > >> > Holy cow, Al, there are some long tangents west of Toledo Jct. (according to > my reprint by Bob Reid): > > Bucyrus MP 201 to Upper Sandusky MP 216 > Upper Sandusky MP 217 to E. Delphos MP 273 with one minor curve > Van Wert MP 288 to Mike (Fort Wayne) MP 319 > Junction MP 321 to W. Vandale MP 342 > Warsaw MP 360 to Valparaiso MP 422 with 3 minor curves > > What a racetrack! What a shame it's not still that way! > > Rick Tipton > Louisville KY > Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:15:53 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] G-26 >Can anyone enlighten me and tell me the difference between a G-26 and a >G-26a gondola? Also can any one recommend an accurate set of brass/metal >trucks. Thanks. > >Kris Kris, A quick and obvious spotting difference is that the G26 had two long side stakes (the rest ended at the bottom of the floor, not the fishbelly) and the G26a had a third long side stake in the middle. This can be added to the ECW model in HO without too much difficulty, and might make for some variety in the fleet . Photos are available at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G26 Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:35:21 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Railroad Museum of Pa. B'day Party From: Jerry Britton This past Saturday my son had his 4th birthday party. It was his first party, and I made special arrangements to hold the festivities at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. Kids like to climb on trains, right? ;-) After spending some time climbing and exploring, they spent 45 minutes in Stewart Junction on some educational interpretation. Excellent job the RMOP did in constructing this new attraction... great programming! Any way, the real treat for me was where they put us for the traditional "cake and drinks" session... in the "auditorium", which is where the children's center used to be. Tables and chairs were provided in the center of the room that was bounded by.... DOZENS of original oil paintings by Grif Teller, Ken Murray, and others. On more than one occasion the proud father had to be reminded that the birthday party was in the center of the room and not on the walls!!! If only the four year olds knew what surrounded them that day. Wow! The RMOP staff was excellent in accommodating us, so Kudos to them! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:56:29 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Addtional Cincinnnati display space... Hey Yuze Gize... Along the lines of what Rick Tipton posted I have a message from a fellow modeler, and friend Andy Harmon he has reserved some table space for modelers wishing to attend the Division 7 NMRA meet in Cincinnati next month. So not wishing to take anything away from the PRR display, but if you cross model say PRR and PC you might want to consider sharing your you models with the RPM guys. Andy is a great host and very experienced at RPM shows. All scales are welcome and regardless of what you have heard we don't count rivets except our own. Read on folks... Greg Martin ======================================================== This will be a first EVER under the RPM banner, at the annual Cincinnati NMRA Division 7 show in November. Dates: Saturday, November 17 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Sunday, November 18 11:00 AM to 5:00 PM Where: Northern Kentucky Convention Center More info: http://www.nkycvb.com/meeting/convention/conv.html About two minutes from downtown Cincinnati, about 15 minutes from the Cincinnati/NKY (CVG) airport. This is an NMRA division show, which features all of the typical stuff you will see - dealers, toy trains, operating layouts everything from live steam to N-trak and everything in between. The division has also been very hospitable to historical societies and prototype modeling groups. In the past, our group has exhibited in one form or another since 1979 as N&W Modelers, NS Modelers, or NSPMG. Also participating is the B&O/C&O modelers, Cincinnati Transit Historical Society, the large groups of PRR modelers and their mostly HO models, L&N modelers, etc. This year the NW/NS modelers are expanding and becoming RPM. I have a total of 8 display tables reserved, and I'd like to fill them up. At this point I only have about half a dozen commitments from people outside our core group to bring models. Any prototype based model that is railroad related is welcome, including rolling stock, vehicles, structures, diorama, etc. If you have a large piece or diorama, drop me an email and I'll see what we can do. But I'm more concerned at this point with filling the tables than running out of space. This is a PUBLIC show, and it's mostly an NMRA division show outside of our little corner. This is an attempt to see what interest there is for RPM in this area, and the possibility of supporting a standalone meet in the future. Admission to the show is reasonable, something like 10 bucks I think. We will be setting up before the show opens on Saturday, but you can bring or pick up models at any time. But it is very important that models be picked up at or before the close of the show 5 pm Sunday. Drop me a line, mailto:aharman@hhcustom.com for specific questions. Please let me know if you can attend, so I can try to get a feel for what we're going to get. Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Railroad Museum of Pa. B'day Party Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:52:51 -0400 Jerry: It's the same room that the Strasburg Rail Road holds their annual stockholders meeting in too. The Lancaster Chapter NHRS used to meet in this room - many long years ago. Cos -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Britton Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:35 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Railroad Museum of Pa. B'day Party Any way, the real treat for me was where they put us for the traditional "cake and drinks" session... in the "auditorium", which is where the children's center used to be. Tables and chairs were provided in the center of the room that was bounded by.... DOZENS of original oil paintings by Grif Teller, Ken Murray, and others. On more than one occasion the proud father had to be reminded that the birthday party was in the center of the room and not on the walls!!! If only the four year olds knew what surrounded them that day. Wow! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: GPandelios@aol.com Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:24:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] ISO William Neale Folks, Sorry to bother the list, but Bill Neale's email is no longer valid. Bill, please contact me via e-mail. Thanks, George ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Book:"Firing on the Pennsy" Hello List, I don't know if this book,"Firing on the Pennsy" has ever been discussed on PRR Talk. If you are a Pennsy fan, I suggest you go out now and buy this book! The author is Paul C. Dietz and he was a fireman on the PRR. He talks about the days of working PRR's T1s,J1s, and Q2s. The stories are great. Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 05:44:42 +0000 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Book:"Firing on the Pennsy" Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: > > Hello List, > > I don't know if this book,"Firing on the Pennsy" has ever been > discussed on PRR Talk. If you are a Pennsy fan, I suggest you go out > now and buy this book! > The author is Paul C. Dietz and he was a fireman on the PRR. He > talks about the days of working PRR's T1s,J1s, and Q2s. The stories are > great. > Dave Dave, Is this a newly released book? Thanks, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:58:18 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Station From: Jerry Britton Heard on the radio this morning that Harrisburg (Pa.) mayor Stephen Reed has asked the state to approve the placement of National Guard troops at the Harrisburg Transportation Center -- which is the modern day name for the train and bus station. The station currently has round-the-clock police presence. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:18:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] CALL FOR ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS HELP - ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS NEEDED Chuck Blardone has decided to expand the coverage of the other electric engine classes in the P5 book which is now carrying the title "Pennsy Juice -Class P5" He can use good photos of the following classes. AA1 D-odd DD-odd DD1 DD2 E2b-E2c-E3b E44-E44a FF1 If you have any good photos of any of these classes and you are willing to loan them to the Society for use in the book please contact Chuck directly off list. Chuck does not read this list so please don't post your answer here contact him off list at blardone@redrose.net Thanx for your assistance. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] CALL FOR ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:44:08 -0400 ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS NEEDED - HELP Chuck Blardone has decided to expand the coverage of the other electric engine classes in the P5 book which is now carrying the title "Pennsy Juice -Class P5" He can use good photos of the following classes. AA1 D-odd DD-odd DD1 DD2 E2b-E2c-E3b E44-E44a FF1 If you have any good photos of any of these classes and you are willing to loan them to the Society for use in the book please contact Chuck directly off list. Chuck does not read this list so please don't post your answer here contact him off list at blardone@redrose.net Thanx for your assistance. Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] CALL FOR ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:44:08 -0400 ELECTRIC ENGINE PHOTOS NEEDED - HELP Chuck Blardone has decided to expand the coverage of the other electric engine classes in the P5 book which is now carrying the title "Pennsy Juice -Class P5" He can use good photos of the following classes. AA1 D-odd DD-odd DD1 DD2 E2b-E2c-E3b E44-E44a FF1 If you have any good photos of any of these classes and you are willing to loan them to the Society for use in the book please contact Chuck directly off list. Chuck does not read this list so please don't post your answer here contact him off list at blardone@redrose.net Thanx for your assistance. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] Remotoring Brass Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:25:06 -0400 Listmembers, I recently purchased an older Gem H-10s with an open frame motor.Now before I begin performing a motor swap, I would like to hear from some of the more experienced as to what I may be getting myself into. Specifically what can motor is best for this application, is regearing recommended and if so what tools will I find helpful. According to the seller, she has worn wheels, is it worth replacing them? I probably won't be starting this project any time soon, but she sure looks pretty with a hopper and an N6b tied to her "lines west" tender. Thanks in advance for the assist, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Remotoring Brass Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:50:48 -0500 Hi Walt--A proven combination: regear with a Precision Scale 585-40181 gearbox and a NWSL 2032 motor. Use the motor with the long shaft and you don't have to fabricate a torque arm. Vertical movement of the motor can be controlled by the flex in the wire from the motor back to the drawbar connection on the engine. You will need a NMSL Puller and Quarterer. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:23:45 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Selling Reading H.S. Bee Line mags Folks, I'm reducing my magazine collection a bit more and would like to sell off a few of the Reading RR Historical Soc mags, Bee Line. I have all four issues of the year 1997 and am asking $13 postpaid for the set. If interested, please advise offline. Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Apparently-From: From: Garry Spear Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Information Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:41:19 -0400 The PRR Heavyweight Pullman Sleeper and Parlor car pages have been updated to include: PRR Streamline Sleeper and Parlor Cars Horse Named Baggage _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Apparently-From: From: Garry Spear Subject: [PRR] PRR Passenger Information Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:52:42 -0400 The PRR Heavyweight Pullman Sleeper and Parlor car pages have been updated to include: PRR Streamline Sleeper and Parlor Cars Horse Named Baggage Scenery Named Baggage Cars Descriptions and Images of Pullman Trucks This information is at: http://PRR.Railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/ I am looking for additional photographs of the listed cars to include (as links). I apologize for the earlier abbreviated message. Garry Spear _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Duane C. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Book:"Firing on the Pennsy" Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:18:40 -0400 This book was published in 2001. I had purchased it on an excursion out of Orrville, Ohio this year. It is 97 pages long. The book is on sale for $12.95 plus $2.00 for shipping. It is available from: Dietz Publishing Company PO Box 1237 Beverly, OH 45715 Duane Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "prrbill" To: "Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Book:"Firing on the Pennsy" > Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art wrote: > > > > Hello List, > > > > I don't know if this book,"Firing on the Pennsy" has ever been > > discussed on PRR Talk. If you are a Pennsy fan, I suggest you go out > > now and buy this book! > > The author is Paul C. Dietz and he was a fireman on the PRR. He > > talks about the days of working PRR's T1s,J1s, and Q2s. The stories are > > great. > > Dave > > > Dave, > > Is this a newly released book? > > Thanks, > Bill Morlitz > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:50:56 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] L-1 ARTICLE Guys, YIKES... I have misplaced the names and addresses of some of the folks requesting a copy of the two issues of Mainline Modeler that covered Kris Kollar's L-1 article. Don't ask how... 3^) So here is a list of those I have and I need you to resend your address to me if you are not on the list and still wish to have the copies... I have decide the best way to get them shipped is to use USPS Priorty mail and the cost will be a whopping $3.95 to get both copies. Please drop me and emai if you are still interested... I have: Carl Pizzo (need your address) Peter Rienhold (got it) Mike Haulk (got it) Mike Morrow (got it) David Morrow (got it) Chuck Simpson (got it) Dave McNeil (got it) Mark Taylor (got it) Watlter Falconer (I will make some arrangements with Hundman to get you your copies "down-under"), but the copies ship from the printer and the back issues are in Washington State and the tween don't meet. But where there is a will there is a way... "Got it" means I have your address ... I will ship on arrival of your $3.95. My list totaled 25 request, 8 without addresses, 17 with. Dang, I am embaressed. Again don't ask how I lost your names and email addresses, just know that I did... 3^) Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Prototype Modelers Seminar, Naperville, Ill Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:02:01 -0500 Hi, I'm looking for someone who has an extra bunk for the Naperville Prototype Modelers Seminar, Oct. 26-28. Looking to cut the costs, errr, come home with more resin castings, books and photos. The seminar includes a clinic on PRR gons (required PRR content) and many other clinics of interest to the steam / early diesel modeler. Anyone on the list going? If so say hi. Peter Reinhold Universal Die & Stampings 735 15th Street Prairie Du Sac, WI. 53578 PH. 608-643-2477 Fax 608-643-2024 preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] remotoring that H-10s Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:44:36 -0400 Thanks for the quick response Steve, My first order of business will be to determine just how "worn" those drivers are. Then based upon those findings it may be drivers, gears and a can motor. And while I am at it, hook up DCC (with forward and reverse lights). Just hope my talents are up to the task. I really appreciate your passing on what motor and gear tower to get. Saves me scratching my wooden head. I haven't taken down my Lionel in the basement, so this perticular project isn't a "hot item". But I would like to get something in HO running. I figure I should start sometime after the snow flies and finish sometime in the summer. I will keep you appraised of reconstruction as it reaches any milestones. Thanks again, Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] remotoring that H-10s Walt, I was thinking about your upcoming regearing project. I ditto Steve's comments. I remember though when I did mine years ago I used a NWSL 1360 motor and ? gearbox. I suppose the larger motor will fit. I also recall the old Gem H10s has direct motor gear to axle gear drive chain, no gear box. For a gear box to be fitted in you may (probably) have to enlarge the slot on the bottom plate that holds the drivers in place. Finding replacement drivers may be difficult. What is worn, the treads? No big deal. Just make sure the bearings are not sloppy and worn........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:25:20 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Hollidaysburg Branch?? From: "Douglas Nelson" Is the proper name for this branch the Hollidaysburg Branch or the Hollidaysburg & Petersburg Branch (as of the mid-1950's)? Was it also known as the "low grade freight line"? Can someone point me to some information on this branch? Thanks in advance for any help. Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Hollidaysburg Branch?? Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:24:16 -0400 Doug Nelson asked... >Is the proper name for this branch the Hollidaysburg Branch or the >Hollidaysburg & Petersburg Branch (as of the mid-1950's)? > It is now being called the "Cove Secondary." Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:19:45 -0400 Subject: [PRR] More Northern Express Photos From: Jerry Britton Jerry Jordak has shared via "Keystone Crossings" his photos of "The Northern Express" excursion from August. His pics are from western Pennsylvania. The URL is http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/northernexpress2001/ Thank you, Jerry! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] More Northern Express Photos List, Anyone know of internet or published pics of the E's and train on the B&LE Bridge crossing the Allegheny River? I envy the lucky and unsuspecting drivers on the PA Turnpike who just happened to be on the adjacent highway river crossing.!!!......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:17:32 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] More Northern Express Photos There was also one railfan photographer on the east side of the Allegheny River Bridge at Mossgrove on the B&P the next day who must have a terrific set of photos. Send out an APB and try to find the photos or the photographer. There is a reward for his/her capture! Bennett Gary Mittner wrote: > > List, > > Anyone know of internet or published pics of the E's and train on > the B&LE Bridge crossing the Allegheny River? I envy the lucky and > unsuspecting drivers on the PA Turnpike who just happened to be on the > adjacent highway river crossing.!!!......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 23:25:20 -0700 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Hollidaysburg Branch?? Is the proper name for this branch the Hollidaysburg Branch or the Hollidaysburg & Petersburg Branch (as of the mid-1950's)? Was it also known as the "low grade freight line"? Can someone point me to some information on this branch? Thanks in advance for any help. Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:56:37 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Bowser GLA review Product review - Bowser GLA hopper (PRR Circle Keystone paint scheme) Hi All (apologies to those of you who get this on multiple lists!), After receiving 24 of these from Jerry Britton this week, I decided to sit down with one and compare it to the photos and text in John Teichmoeller's book "Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars". In some ways, the kit exceeded my expectations, in others I was disappointed, but overall, I think it is what I expected from Bowser (which is that it ain't no Westerfield!). This model is "classic Bowser", 1950's technology in the 21st century modeling world. The kit is a basic "shake the box" type, with minimal additional details. Proportions of the body and rivets appear to be extremely good, with the side stakes showing the correct taper. For the rivet counters amongst us, the rivet pattern on the side stakes, which is identical on all stakes, indicates that original side plates have not been replaced with larger plates (where stakes 2,4 and 6 would have sparser rivets indicating no splice). The corner gussets are present, molded into the top of the top chord. Grab irons are molded on, with some, such as the vertical end grab, represented by Bowser's ultra thin molding while others such as the grab iron ladders represented by thick casting that protrude a considerable distance. This interesting mix of grab casting techniques may have been due to the thickness that Bowser felt was required to for the grabs where they were not backed by side or end sheets. The model has a single long horizontal grab on the non-ladder end, representing a car prior to the late 1940s. The model has a vertical brake staff and wheel which is appropriate for these cars over their entire lives, but which may not be for Berwind-White cars which were modernized in the late '30s with power hand brakes and straight side stakes. An AB brake reservoir, cylinder and triple valve are included, and these are nicely detailed castings on a sprue with some other brake parts that the instructions indicate should not be used. Unfortunately, the clevis on the brake cylinder is cast for a horizontal lever rather than a vertical lever, complicating super detailing. No provision is made for the rather prominent mounting bracket for the cylinder. Likewise there is no retainer valve or piping present. The brake platform is relatively thick and has a pawl and ratchet detail cast into the surface. The car has what appear to be Wine door locks cast into the sides of the hopper, but the detail is poor and there is no evidence of the rest of the door hardware. This is a clear step backward from the H21/22 models. Typically, hopper models are weighted with steel weights under the slope sheets, however, Bowser has chosen to have the modeler place these inside the hopper and has provided interior slope sheet covers with rivet detail, a clear improvement over the H21/22. The trucks provided appear to be correct (2D-F8) for this car. In a first for me, Bowser has included knuckle style couplers, and lest I forget to mention it, before throwing it in the trash, the usual plastic coal load is provided as well (YUCK). As expected, these cars are painted in what Bowser thinks of as Freight Car Color, which is very brown and represents (if anything) a "late" version of FCC. Lettering on the cars is very sharp, although the white seems a little transparent and the font seems to be a little funny (the letters and numbers are too thin). The Circle Keystone is marginally too high on the car side (the top ought to be almost even with the line over the road name). Lest I sound hypercritical, I am very pleased that there is now a mass production version of the PRR GLA hopper available. These cars make a wonderful way of assembling a fleet of PRR steel hoppers. However, these cars will take some work to look at home with detailed IM, Red Caboose, and P2K products. The good news is that a "betterment" program may not require a lot of time and effort. The following is a brief list of ideas for improvement (in no particular order): 1) replace grabs with wire 2) Add brake gear detail (retainer valve, levers, piping etc) 3) Add cut levers and air hoses 4) Add splice plate detail to the inside of the hopper 5) Add cross braces to the inside of "empty" hoppers (loads will hide these) 6) Remove some rivets from side stakes 2,4 & 6 to model rebuilt cars 7) Overspray with Special Oxide a la Jim Six to "redden" the car color 8) Add Wine door locks and details I welcome your additional comments! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:26:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Hollidaysburg Branch?? Doug. Middle District ( former Middle Division ) ETT No. 9 eff 10-30-55,page 6 shows it as: HOLLIDAYSBURG & PETERSBURG BRANCH H & P SECONDARY Track This next part gets a bit confusing but here it goes. The part from Petersburg (PETE)to Duncansville (WYE) was the the known as the H & P Sec. as in the TT but also known as the Petersburg Branch. The part from "WYE" to to "ALTO" was called the H & P Branch. "ALTO" to "WYE" was automatic signal territory and "WYE" to "PETE" was Manual Block territory. This I take is the difference between the Sec. and the Branch. The H & P Br. was later changed to the Holiday Br after to 72 flood washed out a large section east of Williamsburg thus severing the whole line. The grade was minimal from "PETE" to about the "WYE" then the grade got stiffer as you went farther west towards "ELDO" Then relaxed, then went over 1% approaching "ALTO" This from my 1966 track chart. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: L1sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Towers Greetings list. Anyone know when the Pennsy started using the keystone call letter signs on their towers? Anyone know or have a guess what color the inside of a Pennsy tower would be painted? Buff? What is on the 1st floor of a tower? The works of the interlocking machine? Did the 2nd floor in general have windows all the way around. I have yet to find a photo of the back side of a PRR tower such as "AO" or "SO" --------Mark L------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] out-of-the-bottle paints Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:09:13 -0700 Hi folks, After years of mixing (and cursing) lacquer-based paints, and although I love them too, I am ready to make the big step to the amazing new acrylic ("flex") paints. I am asking, no pleading, for your advise. I would like to try them on both brass and plastic, but I need to know what special considerations there are. In particular, I have heard some of you discuss the best "out-of-the-bottle" paint that closely matches PRR freight car color, or those mixes that seem appropriate. Can you tell me what they are? What individual brands do people like best? I have been using 50/50 zinc oxide/bcr Floquil, with roof brown added for the 60's, for reference. Do you have to overspray with gloss for decaling? Can you weather like normal? Can I still use my Floquil for that? Thank you many times over! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac101@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:22:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: Hollidaysburg Branch Doug. Middle District ( former Middle Division ) ETT No. 9 eff 10-30-55,page 6 shows it as: HOLLIDAYSBURG & PETERSBURG BRANCH H & P SECONDARY Track This next part gets a bit confusing but here it goes. The part from Petersburg (PETE)to Duncansville (WYE) was the the known as the H & P Sec. as in the TT but also known as the Petersburg Branch. The part from "WYE" to "ALTO" was called the H & P Branch. "ALTO" to "WYE" was automatic signal territory and "WYE" to "PETE" was Manual Block territory. This I take is the difference between the Sec. and the Branch. The H & P Br. was later changed to the Holiday Br after to 72 flood washed out a large section east of Williamsburg thus severing the whole line. The grade was minimal from "PETE" to about the "WYE" then the grade got stiffer as you went farther west towards "ELDO" Then relaxed, then went over 1% approaching "ALTO" This from my 1966 track chart. Pat McKinney Altoona,Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Train Show Hi Lists, That time of year again. The Beaver County Model Railroad Club is holding its annual fall train sale. (aprox 80 tables worth) Same location as in recent shows. It will be held Sunday Oct 21 10:00-3:00 at CENTER STAGE 1495 Old? Broadhead Rd. near the Beaver Valley Mall in Center Twp. Pa. Visit http://www.bcmrr.com for further info. All scales are available for purchase from local dealers. On a personal note I will have on display my 1:29th scale PRR F3 A-B-A Lashup (soon to be seen in the next issue of Model Railroading) and I plan on bringing my 1:29th scale N5b and N6b Cabins. Suppose to be a nice day so any local list members stop on in and say Hi!.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Towers Hello Mark & list, I 've been inside of MG Tower and the interior is a modern coated tile. On the bottom (first) floor, the room was filled with telephone and signal relays and other equipment. The first floor of MG has that "blocked glass" but if you go around the back you can look right into the first floor and see the relays. (Whats left of them). Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Ore Jennies Has anyone heard about PRR correct ore jennies being released in HO. I hope that it's not a rumor! I thought Bowser would have done them by now. I WANT MY PRR ORE JENNIES!!!!!!! Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nevin Byers" Subject: [PRR] Newcomer Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:48:19 -0400 Hello, I just joined this list in hopes of gaining valuable knowledge and experience in the Pennsy. I've always been fond of the Standard Railroad in the World, perhaps it being the most recognized and most modeled railroad. I've been involved in railroading since I was able to walk. I grew up to one of the most signifigant shortline narrow-gauge railroads in the east, the East Broad Top. The interesting point in all this is that the EBT interconnected with the Pennsy in Mount Union, Pa. I've always been interested in the vast wealth of history there is on railroading in general and more specifically, the EBT. Please view my webpage: http://www.railroad-central.com Nevin Byers http://www.Railroad-Central.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Ore Jennies Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 05:34:30 -0400 Dave Hopson inquired... Has anyone heard about PRR correct ore jennies being released in HO. I hope that it's not a rumor! That story seems to surface at each year's PRRT&HS annual meeting, but I am not familiar with the "latest version" of same. Supposedly someone is working on such a car, however. Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Train Show Hi Lists, That time of year again. The Beaver County Model Railroad Club is holding its annual fall train sale. (aprox 80 tables worth) Same location as in recent shows. It will be held Sunday Oct 21 10:00-3:00 at CENTER STAGE 1495 Old? Broadhead Rd. near the Beaver Valley Mall in Center Twp. Pa. Visit http://www.bcmrr.com for further info. All scales are available for purchase from local dealers. On a personal note I will have on display my 1:29th scale PRR F3 A-B-A Lashup (soon to be seen in the next issue of Model Railroading) and I plan on bringing my 1:29th scale N5b and N6b Cabins. Suppose to be a nice day so any local list members stop on in and say Hi!.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bob Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Towers Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:16:59 -0400 Mark and list: The following PRR keystone sign drawings were all first issued by the Office of the Chief Engineer in December, 1928: 78160-A Standard Passenger Station Sign 78161-A Standard Passenger Station Approach Sign 78163-A Standard Call Signs for Interlocking or Block Stations In general there was no need for windows on the rear side of a tower. Towers I've seen had no such windows. One exception would have been towers located at railroad crossings, where at least some visibility in all four directions was important. Bob Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:05 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Towers | Greetings list. Anyone know when the Pennsy started using the keystone | call letter signs on their towers? | | Anyone know or have a guess what color the inside of a Pennsy tower | would be painted? Buff? | | What is on the 1st floor of a tower? The works of the interlocking | machine? | | Did the 2nd floor in general have windows all the way around. I have | yet to find a photo of the back side of a PRR tower such as "AO" or "SO" | | | --------Mark L------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Born Too Late Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:10:52 -0400 At breakfast this morning I put on the PRR CD's. One track that really got to me was a K-4 making a station stop. He came in fast, shut off, safety valves let go a few secons later, and with a squeal of brakes came to a stop. While stopped you could hear the whine of the generator, the hiss of escaping steam, and the air pumps clunk-clunking. The conductor sounded two tweets on the communitating whistle, there was another hiss of steam, three or four sharp exhaust blasts and the safety valves closed. With a deafening bark he accelerated away, punching holes in low lying clouds. He whstled for a crossing, exhausts got faster and faster with remarkable acceleration as they faded in the distance, and we were back to birds singing. We were born 20-40 years too late. Of course then we'd be 80 to 100 years old and confined to a nursing home by the tracks (with no trains, of course). Oh to have been there with video equipment! The Perfesser ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Born Too Late Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:38:12 -0400 Bill:- Even video equipment could not capture the smell of hot oil nor the heat of the firebox as the engine passed you on the platform! (sigh) Has it really been 45 years??? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bigler" To: "Mike Waidelich" ; "PRR-Talk Posting" ; "Tom Martino" ; "Gary Leanz (home)" ; "Pam Hendrickson" ; "Chris Hendrickson" ; "Nancy Gilman" ; "Gary Leanz (work)" ; "Fred Cupp" ; "Chris Chaney" ; "Jeff Bigler (regular)" ; "Al Werner" ; "Dick Perry" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 6:10 PM Subject: [PRR] Born Too Late > At breakfast this morning I put on the PRR CD's. One track that really got > to me was a K-4 making a station stop. He came in fast, shut off, safety > valves let go a few secons later, and with a squeal of brakes came to a > stop. While stopped you could hear the whine of the generator, the hiss of > escaping steam, and the air pumps clunk-clunking. The conductor sounded two > tweets on the communitating whistle, there was another hiss of steam, three > or four sharp exhaust blasts and the safety valves closed. With a deafening > bark he accelerated away, punching holes in low lying clouds. He whstled > for a crossing, exhausts got faster and faster with remarkable acceleration > as they faded in the distance, and we were back to birds singing. > > We were born 20-40 years too late. Of course then we'd be 80 to 100 years > old and confined to a nursing home by the tracks (with no trains, of > course). > > Oh to have been there with video equipment! > > The Perfesser > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:42:00 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Born Too Late Better late than never, and just to think maybe in the next few years you can hear and SEE the 1361 pulling the same caper. Send a donation to Altoona to further the work and insure completion. Bennett Levin Bill Bigler wrote: > > At breakfast this morning I put on the PRR CD's. One track that really got > to me was a K-4 making a station stop. He came in fast, shut off, safety > valves let go a few secons later, and with a squeal of brakes came to a > stop. While stopped you could hear the whine of the generator, the hiss of > escaping steam, and the air pumps clunk-clunking. The conductor sounded two > tweets on the communitating whistle, there was another hiss of steam, three > or four sharp exhaust blasts and the safety valves closed. With a deafening > bark he accelerated away, punching holes in low lying clouds. He whstled > for a crossing, exhausts got faster and faster with remarkable acceleration > as they faded in the distance, and we were back to birds singing. > > We were born 20-40 years too late. Of course then we'd be 80 to 100 years > old and confined to a nursing home by the tracks (with no trains, of > course). > > Oh to have been there with video equipment! > > The Perfesser > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: alex@arclyte.com (Arclyte - Alex Charyna) Subject: Re: [PRR] Born Too Late Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:50:16 -0800 What about those of us who were born 60+ years too late? Heck, even the Penn Central was before my time. Just seeing Mr Levin's locomotives at Railfest was a real treat. Seeing a GG1 @ Altoona.... Actually seeing anything decorated for the PRR was awesome.. (fiancee didn't understand, but hey).... I couldn't even begin to imagine seeing a K4 in operation. thanks for sharing... BTW, where can I find that CD? -alex ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bigler" To: "Mike Waidelich" ; "PRR-Talk Posting" ; "Tom Martino" ; "Gary Leanz (home)" ; "Pam Hendrickson" ; "Chris Hendrickson" ; "Nancy Gilman" ; "Gary Leanz (work)" ; "Fred Cupp" ; "Chris Chaney" ; "Jeff Bigler (regular)" ; "Al Werner" ; "Dick Perry" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:10 PM Subject: [PRR] Born Too Late > At breakfast this morning I put on the PRR CD's. One track that really got > to me was a K-4 making a station stop. He came in fast, shut off, safety > valves let go a few secons later, and with a squeal of brakes came to a > stop. While stopped you could hear the whine of the generator, the hiss of > escaping steam, and the air pumps clunk-clunking. The conductor sounded two > tweets on the communitating whistle, there was another hiss of steam, three > or four sharp exhaust blasts and the safety valves closed. With a deafening > bark he accelerated away, punching holes in low lying clouds. He whstled > for a crossing, exhausts got faster and faster with remarkable acceleration > as they faded in the distance, and we were back to birds singing. > > We were born 20-40 years too late. Of course then we'd be 80 to 100 years > old and confined to a nursing home by the tracks (with no trains, of > course). > > Oh to have been there with video equipment! > > The Perfesser > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:07:54 -0400 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Born Too Late Hi.... Well its not a K-4s,but there still is that B-4 running up in Williams Grove,Pa. I've never seen it,but i might some day. Eons ago i was able to get to see D-16sb 1223 running on the Strasburg. That was the closest i ever came. I was born the same month the late K-4s pulled a PRR passenger train. (Nov.1957). I'm glad though that i did get to see Pennsy in its last ten years. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:50:39 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Psgr Car Floor Plans Gents, I'm looking for two PRR passenger car floor plans for my E&P book - 1. A class P70FR numbered 3810 or 3887 which were conversions from class P70, ca. 1939-1940. 2. A PRR/Pullman Broiler-Buffet-Parlor car ca. 1930. Please contact me off list. Al ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:47:19 -0400 Gang, My breakfast CD generated more responses than any post I've sent! As for those born 60 years too late, you're now 120+ and can't see so good and you're stone deef. So much for watching from that nursing home. (What's that you say, Charlie? Can't quite make it out.) Someone asked "has it really been 45 years?" I have no idea, but it seems like two eternities to me. Actually I saw precious little of the Pennsy in the steam days, so I'm experiencing new experiences right along with the rest of you. Yeah, Mr. Levin's E-8's were awfully nice too, and I missed them both on the Northern Express and in Altoona. Sure hope someone puts out some videos and they do some more trips. Yes anything in Pennsy livery (aside from steam) is magnificent. I especially like the Tuscan red locomotives like the passenger sharks, the GG-1's from the Senator and Congo, Alco PA's and other diesels. But steam should be BLACK, not Tuscan red. And IC and NS shouldn't be painting diesels black - that's reserved for steamers in my mind. I haven't seen the B-4 in Wms. Grove Pa either. And isn't there an old DS-16 or something that sometimes runs at Strasburg? Heck, I never even saw an I-1 or T-1 or Q or S, etc. live. Yeah, wives, fiancee's, and SO's don't understand. Try comparing with the emotion they feel over shopping or hand painted ceramics or antiques. As for video not capturing the heat and smell, one of my most poignant memories is of the smell inside a roundhouse with live steam (coal smoke, valve oil, steam etc). Or seeing one accelerate away from a station. If we could slam-dunk these terrorists, we could divert some money toward restoring other PRR steamers to operation. Or building a T-1. How's that for haluciinating? By the way, I'm not sure it was one of the society's CD's I was listening to - could even have been an old recording called "On Time" or any number of other old PRR recordings. Someday, someday . . . . . By the way, does anyone know when 1361 will be finished, whether Steamtown plans to test run it, or whethere there are plans to run it anywhere? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Psgr Car Floor Plans Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 20:50:39 -0400 Gents, I'm looking for two PRR passenger car floor plans for my E&P book - 1. A class P70FR numbered 3810 or 3887 which were conversions from class P70, ca. 1939-1940. 2. A PRR/Pullman Broiler-Buffet-Parlor car ca. 1930. Please contact me off list. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:02:38 -0400 Bill:- Steam should not be black, it should be DARK GREEN LOCOMOTIVE ENAMEL! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bigler" To: "PRR-Talk Posting" Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 8:47 PM Subject: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments > Gang, > > My breakfast CD generated more responses than any post I've sent! As for > those born 60 years too late, you're now 120+ and can't see so good and > you're stone deef. So much for watching from that nursing home. (What's > that you say, Charlie? Can't quite make it out.) > > Someone asked "has it really been 45 years?" I have no idea, but it seems > like two eternities to me. Actually I saw precious little of the Pennsy in > the steam days, so I'm experiencing new experiences right along with the > rest of you. > > Yeah, Mr. Levin's E-8's were awfully nice too, and I missed them both on the > Northern Express and in Altoona. Sure hope someone puts out some videos and > they do some more trips. Yes anything in Pennsy livery (aside from steam) > is magnificent. I especially like the Tuscan red locomotives like the > passenger sharks, the GG-1's from the Senator and Congo, Alco PA's and other > diesels. But steam should be BLACK, not Tuscan red. And IC and NS > shouldn't be painting diesels black - that's reserved for steamers in my > mind. I haven't seen the B-4 in Wms. Grove Pa either. And isn't there an > old DS-16 or something that sometimes runs at Strasburg? Heck, I never even > saw an I-1 or T-1 or Q or S, etc. live. > > Yeah, wives, fiancee's, and SO's don't understand. Try comparing with the > emotion they feel over shopping or hand painted ceramics or antiques. > > As for video not capturing the heat and smell, one of my most poignant > memories is of the smell inside a roundhouse with live steam (coal smoke, > valve oil, steam etc). Or seeing one accelerate away from a station. If we > could slam-dunk these terrorists, we could divert some money toward > restoring other PRR steamers to operation. Or building a T-1. How's that > for haluciinating? > > By the way, I'm not sure it was one of the society's CD's I was listening > to - could even have been an old recording called "On Time" or any number of > other old PRR recordings. > > Someday, someday . . . . . > > By the way, does anyone know when 1361 will be finished, whether Steamtown > plans to test run it, or whethere there are plans to run it anywhere? > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] TV Program Lists, DANG!!!! Just tuned into the tail end of a program on Chanel 13 (Pittsburgh Public Station). Was about the Pennsy. Hope it repeats again later tonight. Anyone know what the heck this was?......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] TV Program Lists, DANG!!!! Just tuned into the tail end of a program on Chanel 13 (Pittsburgh Public Station). Was about the Pennsy. Hope it repeats again later tonight. Anyone know what the heck this was?......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program Lists, Boy, there is another TV program on 13 out of Pittsburgh (6:00PM). Again pertains to Altoona and the Railroad. Nice archive film....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-eGroups-From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) From: mittner@webtv.net Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR-FAX] Re: [PRR] TV Program Lists, Boy, there is another TV program on 13 out of Pittsburgh (6:00PM). Again pertains to Altoona and the Railroad. Nice archive film....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:43:35 -0400 Seems there are some great progams out of PA on railroads and industy. Anyone tape them, know how to get them (a list first is poss.). We in rural NY don't get that one despite out 400+ digital cable channels. Pennsy content: I mentioned PA and rr's. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program > Lists, > > Boy, there is another TV program on 13 out of Pittsburgh (6:00PM). > Again pertains to Altoona and the Railroad. Nice archive film....Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Fw: [PRR] TV Program Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:52:14 -0400 Seems there are some great progams out of PA on railroads and industy. > Anyone tape them, know how to get them (a list first is poss.). We in rural > NY don't get that one despite out 400+ digital cable channels. > > Pennsy content: I mentioned PA and rr's. > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Mittner" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] TV Program > > > > Lists, > > > > Boy, there is another TV program on 13 out of Pittsburgh (6:00PM). > > Again pertains to Altoona and the Railroad. Nice archive film....Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > > > PRR Loco Pics: > > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > > > & > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > > and...... > > > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Train consists to the South in 1954 Hi, many foreign trains departed from Sunnyside Yard to the South, North and West like Atlantic Coast Line, Southern, FEC, ... . Where these trains mixed trains with PRR cars(bagage, sleepers, coaches, diners or observations) or where all those cars from those foreign railroads? Can someone give me the 1954 consists of these trains? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 06:16:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Train consists to the South in 1954 From: Jerry Britton On 10/22/01 5:31 AM, Geoffrey Van Dooren at (geoff_vandooren@yahoo.com) wrote: > many foreign trains departed from Sunnyside Yard to > the South, North and West like Atlantic Coast Line, > Southern, FEC, ... . > Where these trains mixed trains with PRR cars(bagage, > sleepers, coaches, diners or observations) or where > all those cars from those foreign railroads? > Can someone give me the 1954 consists of these trains? > Funny you should ask... I am about 3/4 done converting the "New York Division Makeup of Trains" from 1954 into a PDF file!!! It will have everything you need. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 07:35:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated 10/21/01 1:11:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:02:38 -0400 Bill:- Steam should not be black, it should be DARK GREEN LOCOMOTIVE ENAMEL! Gregg Mahlkov >> Proving once again that not only is railfanning usually thinly disguised locomotive worship, but it's passenger locomotive worship. I used to know a guy whose favorite expression was "the only fittin' color for an engine is engine black". Since the PRR had far more freight and switching steam engines than passenger locomotives, I'd have to say my favorite steam would be black! Of course, I have nothing against the odd DGLE showing up either, in either steam or diesel. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:27:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated 10/22/01 7:39:01 AM Central Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << Since the PRR had far more freight and switching steam engines than passenger locomotives, I'd have to say my favorite steam would be black! >> Since they were seldom that shiny, for practical purposes you can easily defend your position (I use 4 parts grimy black to 1 part DGLE for freight locos and that is BEFORE weathering). However, this list tends to have a lot of newbies coming and going and they might erroneously assume from your statement that PRR freight locos were painted black rather than DGLE when new. Putting things in writing is dangerous to that extent. I just noticed in the Keystone T1 article last quarter that one of the paintings shows an offset-side Pennsy hopper and the B&O style single-door baggage cars in tuscan in the consist. Never say never, but I doubt either existed (I always hedge my bets since I was a Pennsy fan for 40 years before I knew they had an E8 with a Mars light) . Yet we have an historical society illustration (granted an artist's impression, not a photo, but even many famous PRR photos we are familiar with were also retouched) that a PRR fan of the year 2020 may cite as "proof" that they did. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:49:07 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] out-of-the-bottle paints Elden asks: > I am asking, no pleading, for your advise. I would like to try them on >both brass and plastic, but I need to know what special considerations there >are. I use, (and really like) Poly Scale. They have a nice selection of PRR colors, and I use "Brunswick Green" and "Tuscan" as is. Their special oxide red is a good FCC the steam era, and D&H grey makes a nice MOW grey to my eyes. "Steam Power Black" is a slightly lighter black that allow detail to show, so that is my standard "black". Some considerations for use: DO NOT over thin! 1 part thinner to 10 parts paint is good (you can use Poly Scale thinner or isopropanol. Water will work, but I think it can lead to problems) Paint at around 25 PSI, although YMMV. I recently discovered this when I upgraded to a better compressor, and require less pressure. Use a medium tip for the most part...fine tips clog faster. The paint is very fine, so I used to not gloss coat, but I think decals go on better over gloss, so now I do. Do not be afraid to brush paint - this stuff is amazing - looks airbrushed! Strip with 91% isopropanol Poly Scale has a rep for not sticking to brass...I recently bought a "grit blaster" and now prep all my unpainted brass this way...and get much better bonds to the metal. BTW, so called "primers" from floquil do not actually have any "priming" ability on brass, so do not both with them. Happy Painting Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 07:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] The PRR program on WQED I lucked out and caught the last 3/4 of it. I think that, were it to be re-run, I would not go out of my way to see it again. (Personal taste speaking, your mileage may vary). One mechanical/technical note: Somewhere in the proceedings a drawing of a K4s was used as a background for something. The headlight was centered (more or less) on the smokebox. Lines West fans should be of good cheer. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 07:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] out-of-the-bottle paints --- "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." > I use, (and really like) Poly Scale. [...] > Some considerations for > use: > > DO NOT over thin! 1 part thinner to 10 parts paint > is good (you can use > Poly Scale thinner or isopropanol. [...] > Strip with 91% isopropanol Is this the same alcohol you use as thinner, or do you use the 70% stuff for that? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:52:53 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] out-of-the-bottle paints I said: >> DO NOT over thin! 1 part thinner to 10 parts paint >> is good (you can use >> Poly Scale thinner or isopropanol. >[...] >> Strip with 91% isopropanol > Sweer ole Bob asked: >Is this the same alcohol you use as thinner, or do you >use the 70% stuff for that? Personally, I just use the poly scale thinner, but in reality it is mostly isopro! I would use the 70% stuff to thin, although the 91% would be diluted significantly by the paint (ie the thinner is not going to strip previous layers). Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:06:06 -0400 From: Matt Raeder Subject: [PRR] drop my name Please drop from this list for a while. I will be out of town for a few weeks. Thanks, Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:39:43 EDT From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated Mon, 22 Oct 2001 8:38:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RickTipton@aol.com writes: > Proving once again that not only is railfanning usually thinly disguised > locomotive worship, but it's passenger locomotive worship. I used to know a > guy whose favorite expression was "the only fittin' color for an engine is > engine black". Since the PRR had far more freight and switching steam > engines than passenger locomotives, I'd have to say my favorite steam would > be black! Of course, I have nothing against the odd DGLE showing up either, > in either steam or diesel. > Rick: The only problem with your statement is that ALL PRR steam locomotives were DGLE not only the passenger steam equipment. The correct painting according to the 1929 locomotive paint instructions are: (this is from memory as the sheet is at home) Locomotive DGLE Frame -- black leading truck when present black training truck when present black smoke box and fire box powdered graphite and oil mixture roof of locomotive freight car color and black mixture Sides of tender DGLE Slope sheets, deck of tender freight car color and black mixture tender frame and trucks black Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Terry Miliczky" Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:54:46 -0500 I have a number of them old PRR audio recordings, but very few(like just two) recordings of a T1. Any body out there know of a (or THE) source for any more? Okay, other than John Prophet's wonderful stuff? Terry Miliczky ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bigler To: PRR-Talk Posting Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments > Gang, > > My breakfast CD generated more responses than any post I've sent! As for > those born 60 years too late, you're now 120+ and can't see so good and > you're stone deef. So much for watching from that nursing home. (What's > that you say, Charlie? Can't quite make it out.) > > Someone asked "has it really been 45 years?" I have no idea, but it seems > like two eternities to me. Actually I saw precious little of the Pennsy in > the steam days, so I'm experiencing new experiences right along with the > rest of you. > > Yeah, Mr. Levin's E-8's were awfully nice too, and I missed them both on the > Northern Express and in Altoona. Sure hope someone puts out some videos and > they do some more trips. Yes anything in Pennsy livery (aside from steam) > is magnificent. I especially like the Tuscan red locomotives like the > passenger sharks, the GG-1's from the Senator and Congo, Alco PA's and other > diesels. But steam should be BLACK, not Tuscan red. And IC and NS > shouldn't be painting diesels black - that's reserved for steamers in my > mind. I haven't seen the B-4 in Wms. Grove Pa either. And isn't there an > old DS-16 or something that sometimes runs at Strasburg? Heck, I never even > saw an I-1 or T-1 or Q or S, etc. live. > > Yeah, wives, fiancee's, and SO's don't understand. Try comparing with the > emotion they feel over shopping or hand painted ceramics or antiques. > > As for video not capturing the heat and smell, one of my most poignant > memories is of the smell inside a roundhouse with live steam (coal smoke, > valve oil, steam etc). Or seeing one accelerate away from a station. If we > could slam-dunk these terrorists, we could divert some money toward > restoring other PRR steamers to operation. Or building a T-1. How's that > for haluciinating? > > By the way, I'm not sure it was one of the society's CD's I was listening > to - could even have been an old recording called "On Time" or any number of > other old PRR recordings. > > Someday, someday . . . . . > > By the way, does anyone know when 1361 will be finished, whether Steamtown > plans to test run it, or whethere there are plans to run it anywhere? > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:41:51 -0400 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] Re: P70R Morgan, Pardon me for cross posting this back to the lists, but some of this info might be of interest to others. A few months ago TRP published a good book on PRR Passenger Cars Vol I. Coaches. For all of $14.95 it should provide all the photos you need. The MR plans of many years ago (1968?) was for the original P70 (no AC). I don't think the Rivarossi interior will fit. They cast the entire interior in one piece. This leads to many compromises and fixes the seat spacing. I doubt that it would match the window spacing on a P70. I had always used Walthers' old metal seat castings but they have not been available for 15 years! My stash has gotten too low to do even one more car. :-( However, several companies have recently introduced plastic interior parts. Precision Scale makes a coach seat set which should work well and is readily available. The P70 seats were individual seats. Bench seats like the Pikestuff parts are therefore wrong. The nice feature of the old Walthers' seats was that they added about 4 oz of weight to a plastic P70. But your RC trucks should do that as well. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== PennsyNut2@aol.com wrote: > > Hi! > > Forgive me for writing off-list, but I need some specific info. > > Can you help with some sources of photos? I will model the ECW P70R > for approx. 1935 thru 1945, and obviously will have to get those "Rail > Classics" 2D-P5 brass trucks for $25.00 or so. You mentioned changing > the underbody. I seem to recall a diagram in MR, but that was many > years ago. I may find it again. But a photo or two of the underbody > would be nice -- if any exist. > > At this point, I am only assembling the data, parts and such before > even starting on the project. > > Do you know if the Rivarossi interiors will fit? > > Thanks in advance! > > Morgan Bilbo > Ferroequinologist -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:22:15 -0400 Dear Rick, Actually on the PRR there was no "odd" DGLE. ALL Pennsy steam locomotives were painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel-PRR Shade, reguardless if they where passenger, freight, or switching locomotives. Some of the less cared-for freight & switch engines might have looked black, but under all that dirt was a true DGLE PRR Shade locomotive. C. Burnley Jr. PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: RickTipton@aol.com [mailto:RickTipton@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:35 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated 10/21/01 1:11:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: Re: [PRR] re: Born Too Late Comments From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 22:02:38 -0400 Bill:- Steam should not be black, it should be DARK GREEN LOCOMOTIVE ENAMEL! Gregg Mahlkov >> Proving once again that not only is railfanning usually thinly disguised locomotive worship, but it's passenger locomotive worship. I used to know a guy whose favorite expression was "the only fittin' color for an engine is engine black". Since the PRR had far more freight and switching steam engines than passenger locomotives, I'd have to say my favorite steam would be black! Of course, I have nothing against the odd DGLE showing up either, in either steam or diesel. Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:40:36 -0500 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? "Burnley, Charles" wrote: > > Dear Rick, > > Actually on the PRR there was no "odd" DGLE. ALL Pennsy steam locomotives > were painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel-PRR Shade, reguardless if they > where > passenger, freight, or switching locomotives. Some of the less cared-for > freight > & switch engines might have looked black, but under all that dirt was a true > DGLE > PRR Shade locomotive. > > C. Burnley Jr. > PRRT&HS #271 Charles, Wasn't there one streamlined K4s that was a Bronze or Tuscan Red color? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:58:14 -0400 Hi Bill, There have been claims of several K4s Engines being "temporarilly" painted Tuscan or Bronze. I have no way of knowing one-way-or-the- other, since no color photos have ever surfaced that I am aware of. Suffice to say once this novelty wore off they were returned to their DGLE livery. C. Burnley Jr. -----Original Message----- From: prrbill [mailto:prrbill@Op.Net] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:41 PM To: Burnley, Charles Cc: 'RickTipton@aol.com'; 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? "Burnley, Charles" wrote: > > Dear Rick, > > Actually on the PRR there was no "odd" DGLE. ALL Pennsy steam locomotives > were painted Dark Green Locomotive Enamel-PRR Shade, reguardless if they > where > passenger, freight, or switching locomotives. Some of the less cared-for > freight > & switch engines might have looked black, but under all that dirt was a true > DGLE > PRR Shade locomotive. > > C. Burnley Jr. > PRRT&HS #271 Charles, Wasn't there one streamlined K4s that was a Bronze or Tuscan Red color? Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bill, 1 K4s, #3768 was finished in a Bronze color when designed by Loewy. It appearnetly stayed that way for several years (?) while in service and making a system wide tour. It later was finished in the standard DGLE (E=Enamel) or DGLP (P=Paint) or DGLF (F=Finish), depending on your preference of terms. . In the very early 1930's, 10 K4s's were selected and were repainted into the Tuscan Red Scheme. #5409 was one of them. According to "Many Faces of the K4" these K4s's were used in the east on premier trains. These also eventually were repainted back to the standard DGL E,P, F colors...........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:44:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated 10/23/01 3:49:06 PM Central Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net writes: << Wasn't there one streamlined K4s that was a Bronze or Tuscan Red color? >> Besides a handful of nonstreamlined K4s which have been described in various sources as being painted tuscan red for a very short time way, way back, 3768 was streamlined to Raymond Loewy's design in 1936 and pulled the 1938 Broadway in the Fleet of Modernism scheme. 3768 has been described as being a bronze color. I don't know if there are any photos, mainly eyewitnesses. It was SPECIFIED gunmetal (per cited sources in the Keystone article on Loewy). I have been told by someone on some list that what the Europeans call gunmetal appears somewhat bronze in shade as opposed to gray. Though he was born in Europe, I don't know which Loewy intended, or what he got. The gunmetal in a gray shade would have seemed to be a more likely choice for the art deco era than the bronze, strictly in my opinion which puts me out on a limb sawing myself off. Some brass models of the 3768 in HO and O as well as the recent S1 have been produced in the gray gunmetal shade. I believe at some time during shopping in WWII, 3768 and the S1 probably got the DGLE treatment. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:01:15 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/23/01 3:49:06 PM Central Daylight Time, prrbill@Op.Net > writes: > << Wasn't there one streamlined K4s that was a Bronze or Tuscan Red color? >> > Besides a handful of nonstreamlined K4s which have been described in various > sources as being painted tuscan red for a very short time way, way back, 3768 > was streamlined to Raymond Loewy's design in 1936 and pulled the 1938 > Broadway in the Fleet of Modernism scheme. 3768 has been described as being > a bronze color. I don't know if there are any photos, mainly eyewitnesses. > It was SPECIFIED gunmetal (per cited sources in the Keystone article on > Loewy). I have been told by someone on some list that what the Europeans > call gunmetal appears somewhat bronze in shade as opposed to gray. Perhaps because gunmetal IS bronze. Used to cast cannons (guns...) best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:27:47 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? In a message dated 10/23/01 6:09:52 PM Central Daylight Time, davep@quik.com writes: << Perhaps because gunmetal IS bronze. Used to cast cannons (guns...) >> Please don't confuse me with any facts. My mind is made up. :-). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:16:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Sullivan Subject: [PRR] WQED programming Hello all, from a relative newbie lurker. I checked WQEDs website, and came up with this : Sunday October 1, 2001 5:30PM Altoona at Work-An Era of Steam (Rpt) 6PM Working on the Railroad URL: http://www.wqed.org/tv/sched/011021_tv.html I queried WQED and got this reply: Dear Benjamin, These programs aired on Sunday the 21st and are not currently scheduled to re-air. Our schedule is currently going into the end of December and we do not have it scheduled till then, what you may want to do is write back towards the end of December and we may have some further information then. Thank you Justin Smith Programming Dept. WQED Pittburgh I myself live in the Wash. DC area so I'll probably *never* see this program. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] WQED programming Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:55:05 -0700 Hmmm...maybe not. Many PBS programs are available on video...check with them to find out if they are. And if you do, let us who live in the great unwashed lands know... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Benjamin Sullivan wrote: > Hello all, from a relative newbie lurker. I checked WQEDs > website, and came up > with this : > > Sunday October 1, 2001 > > 5:30PM > Altoona at Work-An Era of Steam (Rpt) > > 6PM > Working on the Railroad > > URL: http://www.wqed.org/tv/sched/011021_tv.html > > I queried WQED and got this reply: > > Dear Benjamin, > These programs aired on Sunday the 21st and are not > currently scheduled to > re-air. Our schedule is currently going into the end of > December and we do > not have it scheduled till then, what you may want to do > is write back > towards the end of December and we may have some further > information then. > > Thank you > Justin Smith > Programming Dept. > WQED Pittburgh > > I myself live in the Wash. DC area so I'll probably > *never* see this program. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:04:11 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Holiday Open Houses From: Jerry Britton I've published a ton of open house listings for the upcoming holiday season. You can view them at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.ws4d Once again, Ken McCorry has provided me with a listing of layouts that are open in southeastern Pa., southern NJ, and Delaware. There are 81 layouts on the full listing, but Ken was kind enough to indicate which ones were PRR or otherwise a definite "must see". If anyone else is involved in an open house, please contact me off-list to have your event listed. Need name of person or group hosting the event, optional name of layout, optional URL of layout, 1-2 sentences describing layout (should be PRR), date and times of open house, and address. Please assume folks will use MapQuest or MapBlast for directions. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] WQED programming Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:52:48 -0400 Is this program one of the videos available at the museum in Altoona? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Sullivan" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:16 AM Subject: [PRR] WQED programming > Hello all, from a relative newbie lurker. I checked WQEDs website, and came up > with this : > > Sunday October 1, 2001 > > 5:30PM > Altoona at Work-An Era of Steam (Rpt) > > 6PM > Working on the Railroad > > URL: http://www.wqed.org/tv/sched/011021_tv.html > > I queried WQED and got this reply: > > Dear Benjamin, > These programs aired on Sunday the 21st and are not currently scheduled to > re-air. Our schedule is currently going into the end of December and we do > not have it scheduled till then, what you may want to do is write back > towards the end of December and we may have some further information then. > > Thank you > Justin Smith > Programming Dept. > WQED Pittburgh > > I myself live in the Wash. DC area so I'll probably *never* see this program. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:54:36 -0400 Does anyone commercially sell DGLE or other DGL_ colors or anything close enough for some of we "more mature" folks with aging eyesight? Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & downtown Williamsport WWII ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Mittner" To: Cc: "Burnley, Charles" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? > Bill, > > 1 K4s, #3768 was finished in a Bronze color when designed by Loewy. > It appearnetly stayed that way for several years (?) while in service > and making a system wide tour. It later was finished in the standard > DGLE (E=Enamel) or DGLP (P=Paint) or DGLF (F=Finish), depending on your > preference of terms. . > > In the very early 1930's, 10 K4s's were selected and were repainted > into the Tuscan Red Scheme. #5409 was one of them. According to "Many > Faces of the K4" these K4s's were used in the east on premier trains. > These also eventually were repainted back to the standard DGL E,P, F > colors...........Gary > > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art > Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > > PRR Loco Pics: > http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > > & > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html > and...... > > PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > > http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Fw: RR Security Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:57:32 -0400 Not sure whether the list members have seen this: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bigler" To: "Bill Bigler" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: RR Security As security concerns mount, AAR asks for fans’ patience and understanding The Association of American Railroads is asking railfans to understand the need for heightened security after a list of “Indicators of Terrorism†was posted on another industry Web site last week. The list, apparently prepared by the AAR but posted on the American Short Line and Regional Railroad Association site, encourages railroad employees to be on the lookout for seven types of suspicious activities. Train-watchers typically engage in most of the cited activities, such as taking an interest in railroad operations and showing up immediately before a train arrives and leaving right afterward. “While the AAR has not asked its member railroads to ‘profile’ individuals near or around railroad property, railroad fans should be aware that the rail industry – along with the rest of the nation – is operating at a heightened state of alert that recognizes the dramatic change Sept. 11 brought to our nation. That includes more scrutiny of activities and people in and around rail yards and tracks,†the AAR said in a statement released late Friday. It was unclear whether the “Indicators of Terrorism†list was merely a draft or was a final recommendation for the industry. Spokespeople for the AAR today were unable to determine which was the case. But AAR spokeswoman Peggy Wilhide stressed that the industry does not seek to infringe upon civil liberties. The only aim, she said, is to assist in national security efforts. As part of those efforts, police – railroad special agents, and federal, state, and local authorities – reportedly have been questioning some train-watchers, including those on public property. Railroads, meanwhile, have put teeth in their zero-tolerance policies against trespassing, particularly at yards and other sensitive locations. And as a security precaution, for three days the industry suspended shipments of certain hazardous materials after the retaliatory strikes on Afghanistan began. “Everybody is being subjected to increased security, whether boarding an airplane or walking near a railroad or going into the halls of Congress,†Wilhide said. “We appreciate and value railfans' interest and support, and sincerely hope railfans understand that everyone is experiencing inconveniences as a result of the war on terrorism,†the AAR statement said. The last time restrictions – written or unwritten – were put on train watching was during World War II. The “Indicators of Terrorism†list, as posted on the ASLRRA site, reads: The Association of American Railroads (AAR) is putting together a list of "Indicators of Terrorism" to help railroad employees increase awareness of suspicious activities on railroad properties. Employees are encouraged to look for: ï‚· 25-35 year old males extremely interested in specific railroads and resources ï‚· People soliciting detailed railroad information in casual situations ï‚· People showing up immediately prior to a train arriving and departing immediately [after] it leaves ï‚· People who are in the wrong place or dressed inappropriately along the rail line ï‚· Suspicious vehicles, motorcycles or mopeds at crossings and along right-of-way ï‚· Automobiles that move with you along your route ï‚· Unusual occurrences like disconnected brake hoses and abnormal signals ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:27:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: RR Security From: Jerry Britton On 10/24/01 12:57 PM, Bill Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > The ³Indicators of Terrorism² list, as posted on the ASLRRA site, reads: > The Association of American Railroads (AAR) is putting together a list of > "Indicators of Terrorism" to help railroad employees increase awareness of > suspicious activities on railroad properties. Employees are encouraged to > look for: > ... > ? People soliciting detailed railroad information in casual situations Yikes! They're coming after the lists!!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:50:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: RR Security From: Roger P Hensley On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:27:47 -0400 Jerry Britton writes: > On 10/24/01 12:57 PM, Bill Bigler (wbigler@stny.rr.com) wrote: > > ? People soliciting detailed railroad information in casual > situations > > Yikes! They're coming after the lists!!! And maybe with some reason. There was an new individual asking for information on the NYC-Railroad list and I and others answered him. It may be legit, BUT his e-addy was letters and numbers, he never signed his name and his Yahoo ID was a hodge-podge of letters. Why wasn't I smart enough to notice this before I answered? (rhetorical question) Roger Hensley === Railroads of Madison County === === http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ === ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bill, For years I have used a combination mixture of Scalecoat Black and Brunswick Green to get the olor I am after. I still use this on brass etc. Recently I tried the water based Floquil PRR Brunswick Green on some G Scale F's. I like the color a lot. Blackish, not greenish. Try it sometime. Simple to use and obtain.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] RR Security Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:05:00 -0400 FOLLOWING IS A RE-POST OF PART OF TODAY'S WEBSITE 'OS/Sightings Report.' A note about Railfanning during the 'War on Terrorism' appears to be necessary... some of the railfans lists (on the Net) seem to be preoccupied with discussions of whether or not one 'can' take rail photos. Of course you 'can!' We think what they're really talking about is trespassing. Trespassing on railroad (or any other) property wasn't allowed on September 10th, or any time before September 11th. The 'War on Terrorism' has nothing to do with that issue. Trespassing is wrong--period. And trespassing can get you in trouble. But taking photos of trains from public property (i.e., highway overpasses, adjacent streets, private property with permission, etc.) is, was, and as long as we are fighting the 'War on Terrorism' to preserve liberty will always be perfectly legal. That's why newspaper and television people are protected by law when they shoot an accident or fire, for example, that occurs on a public street. Now, let's be careful here. If one stands on a public street with a telephoto lens and shoots into a private house or apartment through a bedroom window, one is probably guilty of 'invasion of privacy.' But that's not what we do when we're shooting photos of trains. Furthermore, President George W. Bush has specifically said--many times over--that Americans must "go on with their daily lives." We're supposed to be getting on airplanes (about the only thing in the President's view that we're not really excited about) and spending money and bringing the economy back into a healthy posture by doing so. Those are the President's specific instructions to all Americans. Well, railfanning fits the President's instructions precisely. And railfanning is what we do best. So get out, buy some film or videotape, take photos and/or videos, stay here at The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP if you're in our area (we're part of 'the economy' too, you know), and DON'T LET THE TERRORISTS HAVE THEIR WAY! We travel to rail facilities as part of our professional responsibilities along with hosting railfans here at The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP. We were in the Horseshoe Curve area over the weekened, for example. Railfans were everywhere--the Curve, Gallitzin, Cresson, Cassandra, etc. They were shooting photos and videos with the beautiful trees as a backdrop and the trains were tooting their whistles and everyone was having a wonderful time. And since our property borders the CSX and looks directly out at the Norfolk Southern, the weekend's experience was simply a repeat of what happens here every day. CSX crews have been immensely kind to our guests over and over again, as they pass through our backyard. Finally, we can send you to all manner of locations where you can shoot trains on public property (and some private with permission, too) with absolutely no fear of difficulty. Remember, you are not disobeying any laws as long as you are on public property and not 'invading privacy' such as in our bizarre example above. After the World Trade Center tragedies, we can readily understand fear of flying. But this near-paranoia about railfanning really has got to stop. Rest assured it is not an epidemic of fear by any means. We've seen active railfans just about everywhere in all three states we travel. So let's get out there and do what our President says to do! Let's get on with living our lives! If we can provide you with information, accommodations, etc., please call on us. And 'stay tuned' to our website. We're slowly posting railfanning locations on some of the other pages. That will be an ongoing project that is 'under construction' at this time. For those of you who may have missed it on October 1, 2001 when it was first published, we're reprinting our 'Let's Get Back on Track' editorial here. The editorial received many favorable responses, and not one single negative reply. We might even suggest printing out today's post and carrying with you to show to anyone (provided you are not trespassing) who might oppose your railfanning activities. We cannot let the terrorists win! Michael R. Young, the General Manager of KDKA Radio in Pittsburgh, editorializes as follows... 'In defining the difference between a coward and a hero, the distinction lies in how they face adversity.' I like that. And I think it has an important application to our favorite hobby. Many railfans are discussing the 'adversity' they feel they are facing in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks on the United States. For example, we can no longer trace rolling stock on the CSX website. And there is a notion that we will somehow face penalties if we appear trackside with our scanners and cameras. Apparently we are 'supposed' to simply retreat to our book and photo collections, or 'railfan from a distance.' I strongly feel this reaction is exactly the OPPOSITE of what President George W. Bush meant in several of his recent speeches, including the one in Chicago where he urged Americans to begin flying once again. More comment will follow shortly on the above, but the desire of the President is that Americans return to their normal activities. The terrorists want us to be too frightened to lead our normal lives. We must, instead, do precisely that--we must lead our normal lives. Some of our 'conveniences,' like the CSX Trace service, may be temporarily suspended. But the trains are running, and as the stock market rebounds railroads will be operating longer trains in greater numbers. The trains are running for us to watch, to log, to photograph, to videotape. There was nothing illegal about the manner in which most of us were doing that before September 11th, and there is nothing illegal about continuing to do that today. We need to 'get back on track.' We need to get out and railfan. And with the Fall Foliage Season quickly approaching, the opportunities for great photography and videography are that much more profound. If you feel you must railfan from a 'safe locaction,' my own railfan B&B (The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP) as well as similar facilities offer secure, private-property locations from which to aim your cameras. And aim them we must. That's what the President is telling us to do. Back to his Chicago speech for a moment, and our second challenge: America is the only nation in the World which forces its citizens to choose between automobiles and aircraft for even short-distance travel in the majority of cases. Throughout the European continent, in Japan, Austrailia, India, Africa... indeed, throughout the World, passengers routinely board railroad trains to travel distances up to, say, 500 miles. Yet now we see the Congress bailing out the airline industry, much of which was already in dire financial straits before the September 11th attacks. We need airlines, to be sure. But we also need a rational passenger transportation system in the United States. And NOW is the perfect time to put it into place. Write your Congressman, your local newspaper editor, and President Bush. Urge Congressional passage of the High Speed Rail Investment Act (HSRIA) this year. S.250/H.R.2329 is a bipartisan bill to provide $12 billion in passenger rail capital bonds over ten years. HSRIA would provide, for the first time, a dedicated, steady, federal share of capital funding for passenger rail projects. A state match of 20% is also required. If passenger rail is ever to be expanded and improved in this country, such a federal partnership will be necessary. These two efforts, one personal and one public, should occupy our time and energy in the immediate future. Let's get out and railfan--just like we were doing before September 11th. And let's point to September 11th and realize that a strong rail passenger network is a strategic need for the 'ordinary traveler.' It's fine that 'Big Business' pays the way for the vast majority of airline travelers. Of course, we all know who REALLY pays. It's also fine that we have airplanes available for long-distance trips across this vast United States. But it makes no sense whatsoever for passengers traveling between New York and Washington, Boston and Washington, Cleveland and Columbus, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Harrisburg, and dozens of other similar combinations of cities to trek to two airports and herd themselves onto aircraft to make those kinds of journeys. And that was true long before airport security began increasing those trips by two to three additional hours. Now comes our chance to save Amtrak and our rail passenger network, and to provide ourselves not only with the pleasures of rail travel but the rewards of increased train traffic for railfanning enjoyment. Let's railfan, and let's write letters. And let's get back to being Active Americans! Terry Stuart The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP Railfan B&B 62 Beaver Street Fallston, PA 15066 www.forcomm.net/flagstop ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:36:45 -0400 List, Gary, Bill, I am in favor of the Floquil also. I use it on all of my models. Works great. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >To: wbigler@stny.rr.com (Bill Bigler) >CC: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? >Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:09:08 -0400 (EDT) > >Bill, > > > For years I have used a combination mixture of Scalecoat Black and >Brunswick Green to get the olor I am after. I still use this on brass >etc. Recently I tried the water based Floquil PRR Brunswick Green on >some G Scale F's. I like the color a lot. Blackish, not greenish. Try it >sometime. Simple to use and obtain.....Gary > > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> > >PRR Loco Pics: >http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com > >& > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html >and...... > >PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: > >http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Subject: Re: [PRR] WQED programming Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:31:51 -0700 I got this reply from Dave Seidel of Altoona to my query, and am posting it to PRR-Talk as he requested. It should answer any questions regarding this program... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ Hi Bill; I will reply to you as I cannot access PRR-TALK with AOL and you can pass the info along. The Film is a 27 minute production of Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum entitled: "Altoona At Work - An Era of Steam". It is available on video-cassette for approximately $14.95 from Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum at (814) 946-0834. Ask for the museum store. Shipping and handling would be added. The museum website is: www.railroadcity.com, but there does not seem to be an on-line order form. There is also a companion supplement to this film relating to PRR-K4s Locomotive # 1361 which is approximately 13 minutes. Both films are of superior quality and would be a significant addition to any PRR archives of the list members. Hope this helps. David Seidel Altoona, PA On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:52:48 -0400 "Bill Bigler" wrote: > Is this program one of the videos available at the museum > in Altoona? > > Bill Bigler > Big Flats NY > Modeling PRR Renovo Div. & > downtown Williamsport WWII > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Benjamin Sullivan" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:16 AM > Subject: [PRR] WQED programming > > > > Hello all, from a relative newbie lurker. I checked > WQEDs website, and > came up > > with this : > > > > Sunday October 1, 2001 > > > > 5:30PM > > Altoona at Work-An Era of Steam (Rpt) > > > > 6PM > > Working on the Railroad > > > > URL: http://www.wqed.org/tv/sched/011021_tv.html > > > > I queried WQED and got this reply: > > > > Dear Benjamin, > > These programs aired on Sunday the 21st and are not > currently scheduled to > > re-air. Our schedule is currently going into the end > of December and we > do > > not have it scheduled till then, what you may want to > do is write back > > towards the end of December and we may have some > further information then. > > > > Thank you > > Justin Smith > > Programming Dept. > > WQED Pittburgh > > > > I myself live in the Wash. DC area so I'll probably > *never* see this > program. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > > http://personals.yahoo.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit > http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:47:37 EDT From: PennsyNut2@aol.com Subject: [PRR] [PRR} Fw: RR Security TO Jerry and Roger and list. It is a simple matter to look for the email address, a signature, etc. Make it a habit to sign what you send. I always do. Morgan Bilbo Ferroequinologist, PRRT&HS # 1204, SPF, And a true Pennsy Nut! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:50:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bill: About two months ago I contacted Dupont with the number for DGLE. I was told the paint color is available as a custom mix in their acrylic line. Also, the advised me that Badger had used DuPont's chips to match the Accuflex color. So I would assume that Accuflex brunswick green is dead on. At least the chemist from Dupont thought it was. This information should be in the archieves of the list. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! Hello List, All this talk about railroad security. Has any one seen Zoo interlocking lately. It now has a 8ft steel wall around it. You can no longer drive up to Zoo Tower. The entire interlocking is "fortified" with walls and police. The driveway up to Zoo Tower has a motorized fence with a keypad to get in. To make a long story short. No more railfanning at Zoo Tower! And Amtrak police are watching the railfans in the parking lot of 30th street Station. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:36:44 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Stuff on eBay for sale. With no apologies to Bill S. I have the following for sale on eBay:- Caboose PRR N5e by ALCo Models - NIB 1652848443 Caboose PRR N6b by ALCo Models - NIB 1652851181 Caboose PRR N6b - NIB 1652854601 Caboose PRR by Hi-Country Brass - NIB 1652857732 Locomotive - PRR O1c # 7856 by ALCo 1652957277 PRR - ALCo DL640 (RS27) by Overland Models 1652962977 Caboose PRR N6b by ALCo Models - NIB 1654621325 PRR Centipede Locomotive by Hallmark 654625492 I hope those that read this appreciate it and I hope those that don't appreciate it don't read it!! Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:09:23 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Crescent Limited on PRR tracks Hi list members, The PRR hosted many foreign-road trains from the south on it's route between Washington and New York. One in particular was Southern's Crescent Limited. In 1929 Southern Railway remodelled the train - it received a distinctive two-tone green color scheme, making it stand out among the other plain mono-colored trains of the era. This paint lasted into the mid-1930's when the train returned to the standard Pullman colors. I'm looking for photos of the two-tone Crescent Limited while operating on PRR tracks - anybody know of any, published or otherwise? Given it's distinct paint scheme, the trains should be easy to identify, even in black-and-white photos... Thanks in advance for any assistance on this. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:50:22 -0400 From: "H.&S." Subject: [PRR] Switchers,bells and a C-1 locobash Hello All..... Something to think about......... I was looking at a small old book tonight about Horseshoe curve and Altoona. Anyway in this book there was a couple of shots of steam locos stored at Altoona during the late steam years. There were a lot of engines with their rods stored on the tenders and a lot of T-1 engines out of service,so i'm guessing this to be the early to mid 1950's.(Engines going to be scrapped?) Anyway i noticed that on some of the smaller engines (mostly H classes) that the bells were missing. I then looked in "Pennsy A to T " and also noticed the bells missing from the shot of the stored H engines at Northumberland. Where i'm going with this is this.....I've also noticed that during this same time there were a lot of Pennsy diesel switchers that all the world look to have the same bells as Pennsy's steamers did (mostly EMD engines) Now i was'nt around then, but this kinda points to perhaps the PRR reusing these Bells on the new diesels. The steamers were being scrapped about the same time as the diesels were built. Also this was post WWII when the PRR was strapped for cash. I've mostly noticed these bells on EMD SW-1 thru SW-9 and NW-2 engines. I don't know,but perhaps the yokes might have been removed and the bells themselves reused on FM,Baldwin and Alco engines. These and perhaps the cab signals and train control boxes being the few things reused from the steam engines. Does anyone know? If this is the case there could be a few former PRR steamer bells out there still in use. Also....since PRR had so many of the EMD switchers (and many lasted to PC days) What in the way of these engines are still out there in use on mid sized railroads, short lines and industrial roads? I remember a old SW-1 that was used at Baltimore's Penn station up to about the early Amtrak years for switching moves at the station. Probably the same engine thats shown in the Keystone Baltimore station article. Now for the C-1 bash....... For years i've had this old AHM IHB 0-8-0 that i've kinda classed as a C-28 after PRR's system. Also in the past couple of years i've gotten a couple of old Liliput G-5's and parts . I can't afford the Brass version of the C-1 (heck i can't even afford a decent used car right now) and since Baltimore which i model had theses engines up til the time the Maryland div. was dieselized used them i got to thinking the other night (which can be outright dangerous) and took the old 0-8-0 apart.....herein hangs a tale....... Anyone remember Bill Schopp's (sp?) locobashing articles from older RMC mags?.....well i have done a couple goofy loco bashes.....anyway....... I found that the G-5 boiler shell will fit on the 0-8-0 frame with a bit of filing on the inside of the old Liliput boiler shell (I had thought of getting a Bowser G-5 shell....but then i thought of all that metal to file and also remembered the filing i had to do to the I-1s boiler for the helix humper during the K-5 mod so i used what i had) and some mods to the 0-8-0 cylinder steam supply pipes. ( I went a little,but not too far and will have to back fill the boiler a little with putty)The frame behind the cab had to be shortened about a 1/4" inch.I removed the third cylinder and modified the cylinders to more closely match PRR ones. I haven't done them yet but here are some other mods for my C-1. I'll need to move the domes a little as on the C-1 the bell was between the stack and the sand dome. The G-5 had the bell between the domes. The IHB pilot will have to be modified or replaced with one from Bowser. I'm reusing the bottom part of the IHB 0-8-0 firebox as this is closer to the type used on the C-1. New running boards will have to be made, but this will be easy as i had to do something like that when i did the K-5 modification mods to Bowser's I-1s boiler a couple of years ago. I'll need to use a Bowser valve gear hanger and do a slight mod to the valve gear. The smoke box front will need a little changing. This mostly will involve removing the cast on keystone and grab irons and replacing them with correct parts. The old 0-8-0 steel weight can be reused if i grind off about 1/8" on either side of it so it will fit in the Liliput boiler. MDC and Mantua have got both types of tenders for these engines (is'nt one a 70P66 ?) so thats covered. Bowser and Cal-Scale make just about all the detail parts i need and that plus some extra boiler work will give me a engine that while not 100 % exact, will be very close. The old 0-8-0 mech on mine runs very well and since i don't plan to run it much anyway (shades of the real thing) i can't see doing a remotoring and modifing job on the mech and frame. When i get it done or close to done i'll let you all know and if anyone wants pics they can e-mail me. Ya'll have fun............. Hmmmmm i wonder what i could do with a F or E unit and a GG-1 underframe...hmmmm A Centipede maybe? Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:31:02 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Switchers,bells and a C-1 locobash Hank not sure about diesels but the E-44 units ended up with steam loco bells. ---------------------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:48:54 +0000 I took a picture of it from a passing Amtrak train last week and i didn't notice anything different. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:56:35 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Sending messages from AOL Since I saw a message about not being able to send messages from AOL it is very easy and I am doing it now. Once you sign on to AOL click the internet button and enter AOL.com. When it comes up and you resign on then you can send messages to PRR-Talk at will. When you close the screen you are back to regular AOL. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:04:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sending messages from AOL From: Jerry Britton On 10/25/01 8:56 AM, NDBPRR@aol.com (NDBPRR@aol.com) wrote: > Since I saw a message about not being able to send messages from AOL it is > very easy and I am doing it now. Once you sign on to AOL click the internet > button and enter AOL.com. When it comes up and you resign on then you can > send messages to PRR-Talk at will. When you close the screen you are back to > regular AOL. Norm Bell > Thank you, Norm. Hopefully your message will instill confidence in those who have shied away from trying this workaround. I'll reiterate that the scenario is not a "problem" or a "bug" with the DSOP.COM list server. It is a "choice". AOL sends mail, by default, in MIME/HTML format which is inferred as an attachment. I've set the listserv to disallow attachments because that is how 90% of the viruses spread. Earlier versions of AOL did not do this, and offered the user a choice as to whether or not to use MIME format. The newer versions force it. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:38:36 -0400 From: Joe Witcofsky Subject: Re: [PRR] "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! E. Mike writes: ".....I took a picture of it from a passing Amtrak train last week and I didn't notice anything different.....". The security fencing / keypad gate etc was installed close to a year ago to keep out "local" intruders, rather than Islamic Terrorists. While not the intent, It does prevent "buffs" from encroaching to take photos, and also makes it more difficult for sinister types to scope out the location. Since most Amtrak trains passing Zoo are routed via 1 or 4 River or 1 or 4 PH, it is difficult to observe this fencing. It is observed from trains using the 2 & 3 Berry which is limited to outbound Septazoid Trentons and Hills. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:58:56 -0500 I don't know why we are so concerned with paint accuracy, unless we all want to model a locomotive fresh out of the shop. Paint slowly oxidizes when exposed to sunlight, which sometimes (but not always) lightens the color of the paint. One need only look and some of the videos or some of the Morning Sun Light Books. Even with freshly painted locomotives, a particular color varied from shop to shop. There are no two diesels, passenger cars, or steam engines that have exactly the same color. Personally, I don't do not worry about shades of DLGE, as long as its not too light. For the record, I have bought various hobby paints, and their colors, out of the bottle, can be different, particularly if the bottles were purchased at different times or at different hobby shops. Even with today's better technologies paint formulations are not uniform. -----Original Message----- From: SUVCWORR@aol.com [mailto:SUVCWORR@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:51 PM To: wbigler@stny.rr.com; mittner@webtv.net; prrbill@op.net Cc: Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com; RickTipton@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bill: About two months ago I contacted Dupont with the number for DGLE. I was told the paint color is available as a custom mix in their acrylic line. Also, the advised me that Badger had used DuPont's chips to match the Accuflex color. So I would assume that Accuflex brunswick green is dead on. At least the chemist from Dupont thought it was. This information should be in the archieves of the list. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:30:58 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] About paint A curious oservation: In the past few years I've noticed a number of black hopper cars which over the years have become greenish, some quite greenish, almost olive drab. That seems very odd to me, as I had thought that the pigment in black paint was carbon black, and that carbon black stayed black no matter what. Yes, there's more to paint than the pigment, so I suppose something originally clear could turn green and reflect the color before the carbon black gets a chance to soak up all the light, but it still seems odd. Anyway, here are black cars turning green. And over there are folks arguing/discussing "how green was DGLE?" I wonder, was the chemistry of DGLE enough like modern paints that it started very black and became very green if you just waited long enough? Inquiring minds want something or other. I fergit what. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE or black? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:54:29 -0400 Marvin, I probably couldn't agree with you more. I've been using Floquil Brunswick Green right out of the bottle for years. I seal this with Floquil Dull-Finish, and then add my weathering on top (just like mother nature). The finished product has that DGLE hint under all the soot, grime, oil, rust, and road dirt. Looks pretty good, and the original color is not as critical as it is being made out to be. By the way... I do not severly weather my models, just enough to make them look like they are actually in service. C.Burnley Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Cadwell, Marvin L [mailto:cadwelml@bp.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 10:59 AM To: 'SUVCWORR@aol.com'; wbigler@stny.rr.com; mittner@webtv.net; prrbill@op.net Cc: Burnley, Charles; RickTipton@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] DGLE or black? I don't know why we are so concerned with paint accuracy, unless we all want to model a locomotive fresh out of the shop. Paint slowly oxidizes when exposed to sunlight, which sometimes (but not always) lightens the color of the paint. One need only look and some of the videos or some of the Morning Sun Light Books. Even with freshly painted locomotives, a particular color varied from shop to shop. There are no two diesels, passenger cars, or steam engines that have exactly the same color. Personally, I don't do not worry about shades of DLGE, as long as its not too light. For the record, I have bought various hobby paints, and their colors, out of the bottle, can be different, particularly if the bottles were purchased at different times or at different hobby shops. Even with today's better technologies paint formulations are not uniform. -----Original Message----- From: SUVCWORR@aol.com [mailto:SUVCWORR@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:51 PM To: wbigler@stny.rr.com; mittner@webtv.net; prrbill@op.net Cc: Charles.Burnley@conectiv.com; RickTipton@aol.com; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? Bill: About two months ago I contacted Dupont with the number for DGLE. I was told the paint color is available as a custom mix in their acrylic line. Also, the advised me that Badger had used DuPont's chips to match the Accuflex color. So I would assume that Accuflex brunswick green is dead on. At least the chemist from Dupont thought it was. This information should be in the archieves of the list. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] About paint Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:17:08 -0400 Bob, I don't know about green hoppers, but the last part of your meaasge I can comment on. In the mid 60's I spent a lot of time trackside in the Trenton area (should have been in class, but that is an entirely differnt topic). Freshly shopped GG1's and E44's were indeed a DARK glossy shade of DGLE (not black...GREEN). As they accumualted road dirt and exposure to the sun they did indeed turn lighter shades of green over time. Even the Passenger G's which were still being washed at Sunnyside lightened somewhat, but not as dramatically as the unwashed freight motors. This phenomonon occured with the diesel units as well, I just did't pay that much attention to them. This color shift was so obvious that I repainted two Penn Line GG1's I had w/ Floquil Pullman Green because Brunswick was too dark. Apparently the reaction of the paint to sun and chemicals did indeed lighten it. All you had to do was wait long enough till the shade you liked came along, model it,and no one could prove you wrong. Hope this helps,...or confuses more??!! C.Burnley Jr. -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:31 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] About paint A curious oservation: In the past few years I've noticed a number of black hopper cars which over the years have become greenish, some quite greenish, almost olive drab. That seems very odd to me, as I had thought that the pigment in black paint was carbon black, and that carbon black stayed black no matter what. Yes, there's more to paint than the pigment, so I suppose something originally clear could turn green and reflect the color before the carbon black gets a chance to soak up all the light, but it still seems odd. Anyway, here are black cars turning green. And over there are folks arguing/discussing "how green was DGLE?" I wonder, was the chemistry of DGLE enough like modern paints that it started very black and became very green if you just waited long enough? Inquiring minds want something or other. I fergit what. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BlockTruck@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:11:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] About paint Black turns green because of road dirt, which is sort of a yellow ochre. Pullman chose Pullman Green because it tended to stay Pullman Green when it got dirty. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELDEN GATWOOD Subject: [PRR] special purpose cars Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:03:54 -0700 Hi all! I have found some interesting info on some more unusual special purpose cars, and was wondering if anyone knows anything more. PRR had 14 X31a cars lined with steel for hauling coal tar pitch. There is a photo of one of these guys in the Morning Sun pass and freight car book vol. 1. Does anyone know who these were assigned to and how they worked? I presume that the roof hatches were for loading, but how were they unloaded? Who wanted entire boxcars (not covered hoppers, mind you) loaded with coal tar pitch? Very intriguing! PRR also had a bunch of G22, G27a and G36e cars equipped with bulk containers, presumably for coke. Does anyone know who these were assigned to? Why three series of cars (when there were plenty of G22s for this)? Does anyone know anything about the five G36b cars (the entire sub-series) "equipped with extended sides and ends, perforated channels on sides with wood lining between channels and also in ends for shipment of electric furnace electrodes? Ultra-cool. But who has seen one of these? Where might they have been assigned? The final one is the entire G22c series was equipped with extended sides and ends for shipment of scrap. There is a photo of a G31d with this same set-up in Morning Sun vol.2, but is not listed in the ORER for that period. I have not seen an equipment diagram on these. Is there one? Where did these guys live? Any photos? There are also 2 GS's assigned to this same service. Ditto? I don't know about you, but I love these oddball cars. Let's talk. Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:23:00 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] special purpose cars Coal tar pitch is solid at room temperature and now comes in little paper drums. This is the stuff you smell boiling behind a roofers truck in the little trailer. The cars were probably used as bulk carriers and contained chunks of the stuff. I have seen tar pellets produced at a coke plant where the tar came through nozzles onto corrugated siding that was laid at an angle and flooded with water. The tar solidified into a rod and was chopped into one inch size pellets before being loaded into a covered hopper for shipment. Before covered hoppers lots of stuff was hauled in box cars that way. Grain comes to mind as one commodity. They may have been assigned to a steel mill coke plant or for refinery usage. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:38:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] All PRR steam was DGLE (correcting my earlier error) + Thanks to Rich Orr and Bob Zoeller for gently reminding me that when it comes to PRR steam, I don't know what I'm talking about. Steam or diesel, it may look black but (Zenlike)... it's actually Dark Green Locomotive Enamel! To repeat part of Rich's message... << Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE or black? From: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:39:43 EDT Rick: The only problem with your statement is that ALL PRR steam locomotives were DGLE not only the passenger steam equipment. The correct painting according to the 1929 locomotive paint instructions are: (this is from memory as the sheet is at home) Locomotive DGLE Frame -- black leading truck when present black trailing truck when present black smoke box and fire box powdered graphite and oil mixture roof of locomotive freight car color and black mixture Sides of tender DGLE Slope sheets, deck of tender freight car color and black mixture tender frame and trucks black Rich Orr >> The moral of this story is: Look it up. Don't make a casual comment and risk confusing an issue, look it up. In this case, the correct authority is a long-ago PRRT&HS reprint of a PRR document on painting of locomotives and tenders. I would cite the exact title in support of Rich's message if I could find it, but it's been astray since our move in August. My apologies for the original idiotic comment -- the brain obviously wasn't turned on that day. BTW, when I first became a Pennsy modeler, I painted many PRR DIESEL models with Floquil engine black -- because I just didn't know any better. Things have improved now -- even most model manufacturers put DGLE on models more or less appropriately. Thus I stand corrected -- the only fittin' color for a (steam) engine is DGLE (with an Engine Black running gear, etc.). Question of the week -- does color change at high speed? Answer -- theoretically, the wavelength of light is shorter (bluer) as an object approaches, then longer (redder) as it recedes. In practice, this Fitzgerald-Lorentz color shift would only be observable at speeds a significant fraction of the speed of light (186,000 miles per second), so is not relevant even to T1 speeds. OTOH, sound frequencies are significantly compressed/expanded by speeds of 100 mph. The experience of a T1 passing must have been accentuated by the apparent shift of its whistle tone, stack talk, and track noise while passing at 100 to 120 mph (per the latest Keystone). Rick Tipton Louisville KY Remembering the Pennsylvania Railroad and especially PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:49:30 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] special purpose cars --- ELDEN GATWOOD wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the five G36b > cars (the entire > sub-series) "equipped with extended sides and ends, > perforated channels on > sides with wood lining between channels and also in > ends for shipment of > electric furnace electrodes? ... > Where might they have been assigned? Seizing on the "might"... They might have been used to ship electrodes from St. Mary's, PA, on the Renovo Division of the PRR. St. Mary's had two big carbon compnaies, Spear Carbon Co. and Stackpole Carbon Co. along with several smaller companies. The smaller ones were into motor and generator brushes, resistors, and other small objects you could pick up with your fingers. Stackpole and Spear concentrated more on heavy-duty things that you would handle with a crane. Electrodes might run 18" dia. by several feet long. (And in use, one section would be screwed to another by a big carbon stud, to make up electrodes of any desired length). Sadly, the two "biggies" no longer exist, although some of their plant facilities are operated at reduced capacity by new owners. Probably the decline in domestic steel did them in. None of the above should be taken to suggest that big electrodes were made only in St. Mary's, regardless of what the St. Mary's Chamber of Commerce might try to tell you. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! List, The fence on 38th Street,(driveway to ZOO Tower), had to be new because I was there early this year taking photos. The area around Zoo interlocking has always been a bad area. Zoo Tower has about 100 bullet holes in it. I WAS supposed to get a tour of ZOO but that got cancelled. Zoo used to be a nice place to watch trains. A lot of operators that worked there were railfans and would tell you what trains were coming. I got my first cab tour of a GG-1 that stopped in front of the tower in the early 1970s. And the original PRR "ZOO" tower sign was still on it!!! Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:06:29 EDT From: PKMac101@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sending messages from AOL TEST Jerry. Testing to see if goes through by reentering on AOL.COM. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] is there an artist in the house? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:18:29 -0400 Hi All, I am hoping that there is an artistically inclined person out there who would design a logo for us. My company, Pennsy S Models is about to deliver our first project, the X-29 in S Scale. You can go to our website www.pennsysmodels.com to get a flavor of who we are. The incorporation of the flavor of the PRR is a must. (Keystone etc.) It would be even better if your design were in an electronic form, i.e. JPEG etc. It is understood that there will be minimal to no compensation for this. You will hold no rights to the design. Your satisfaction would be knowing that your design would be adorning a website and the box ends of fine PRR brass models. I know that I am asking for a lot, but it does not hurt to ask. Thank You, Bill Lane Pennsy S Models ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:42:50 -0400 From: Jerry Jordak Subject: [PRR] Re: "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! Dave Hopson wrote: > To make a long story short. No more railfanning at Zoo Tower! And > Amtrak police are watching the railfans in the parking lot of 30th > street Station. Actually, I found that Amtrak police have been picky about the parking deck at 30th Street for a few years already. I was there in 1999 and I got tossed out of there by an Amtrak policelady. Something about security because the new (at the time) Acela trains were parked near there. She wasn't impressed by the fact that I drove all the way from Cleveland to shoot pictures from that parking deck either... :-( -JWJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:00:12 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: [PRR] HO scale LaserKit New Freedom depot -- HELP! Hello all: I recently picked up one of these models for my layout (since I'm modeling the Northern Central and it went through New Freedom, it seemed like a good idea at the time). Well, I now have it and have looked at it long enough to know that I'm in over my head. Is there anybody out there who would like to assemble and paint this for me? (in case you don't know, it is a laser cut WOOD model). Anybody know anybody that does this sort of work? Of course, I am willing to pay a fee for having this done. Thanks, Jeff Warner PS: Please feel free to contact me off list at jeffrywarner@home.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: "Zoo Interlocking" now has walls!! Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:06:56 +0000 Well last June c. 5:00 PM I hung out there for about 30 minutes and nobody bothered me, although I have heard about people being picked on by that same police lady. Your best bet is to just Park you car in the lot and claim to be waiting for someone inside. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Never say never-----again List, While looking in my collection of photos for some E6's, I came across a photo of a K4 (#5147, Wilmington Del, 10-22-33) It is amazing to me how one can spot something each time you search thru photos. What caught my eye on this particular K4 was it has a Mechancal Lubricator on the engineers side. This is the only one I have ever noticed. The only one like this? I also have a photo of 5147 in 1940 and a lubricator can be seen on the firemans side. (Not sure if the engineers side lubricator is retained). Other notes on this 1933 view of K4 5147 is Hand Reverse and original 90P Class Tender. .....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:09:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Another K4s with mechanical lubricator on right side Gary, list, There was at least one other K4s with the mechanical lubricator on the right (engineer's) side. Also from your neat K4s picture site, K4s 5376 on 19 May 1936 with a 90P70 and a mechanical lubricator on the right side. I have never seen a photo of any PRR K4s (or M1/M1a/M1b or I1sa) with two mechanical lubricators. Just when we think we have PRR steam figured out..... I enjoy pouring through Gary's collection of steam pictures on the web and highly recommend them. Lots of Gary's photos are from the 1930s, and there's a chance for you to see PRR steam in all it's variegated glory. I model the New York and Long Branch, but even I can look at only so many pictures of, say, the 3678 in 1957, before I crave a little variety. Doug --- Gary Mittner wrote, in part: > ....photo of a K4 (#5147, Wilmington Del,10-22-33)....What caught my eye on this particular K4 was it has a Mechancal Lubricator on > the engineers side.I also have a photo of 5147 in 1940 and a lubricator can be seen on the firemans side. (Not sure if the engineers side lubricator > is retained). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:11:57 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Electric exchanges Many pictures exist showing both Manhattan Transfer and Harrisburg for exchanging electrics for steam or diesel. How was this accomplished at Wilmington and Paoli before the Catenary was extended? Where were the respective engine terminals? Idon't think I have ever seen any pictures of these exchanges probably because they were so short lived I would assume. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) M1A VS M1B Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:26:46 -0400 Group, What are the spotting differences between the M1A & M1B. Might sound like a dumb question but a friend asked me and I couldn't give him an answer. Thanks in advance Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "WaltP" Subject: [PRR] (PRR) M1A vs M1B Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:28:35 -0400 Sam and list, I wanted to get this right so I checked Jan & Feb 1987 Mainline Modeler, and per Rich Adams (author) the main difference between the two is that the M1B is a modification of a "standard" M1A where circulators were applied to the firebox, increasing boiler pressure to 270 psi, generating a traction force of 69,700 pounds. A total of 41 M1A received this treatment. Doesn't sound like much a a visual "track-side" difference. Not like the difference between an M1 and an M1A at any rate. Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:09:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) M1A VS M1B Sam, list, There is a minor exterior difference between the M1a and M1b. We'll start on page 198 of Pennsy Power I. This shows M1a engines 6707 and 6775 as built. Concentrate on the firebox area of the engines. Once you have that fixed in your mind, turn to page 213 of Pennsy Power I. The top photo is a shot of M1b 6761. Just forward of the cab are 3 washout plugs (only 2 are visible in the photo) on each side of the firebox, just above the running board. Only M1b engines have the circulator washout plugs; no M1a or M1 engines ever received them. There are 3 on each side of the firebox; the one closest to the cab is the highest, and the one furthest forward is the lowest. If you have Carleton's Pennsy Steam: A to T (1989), see page 170. The lower photo is a nice broadside of M1b 6736 that shows the circulator washout plugs very nicely. The M1b engines had new boilers rated for 270 PSI (vs 250); aside from the circulator washout plugs, I know of no other external features that distinguished them from the M1a engines. Doug --- Sam Vastano wrote: > Group, > > What are the spotting differences between the M1A & > M1B. Might sound like a > dumb question but a friend asked me and I couldn't > give him an answer. > > Thanks in advance > > Sam Vastano > So many hobbies so little time! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 23:30:30 -0500 From: Randy Williamson Subject: [PRR] New Website For anyone interested I have created a new website: http://www.randsrailstuff.net/Pennsylvania%20Railroad%20Freight%20Schedules/HOME.htm 1955 PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD THROUGH FREIGHT SCHEDULES please drop by and take a look. if you have any comments or if you have any information that I would be of use please let me know. Regards, Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) M1A VS M1B Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 08:28:54 -0500 Doug, Walt, Thanks for the info. Sam Vastano So many hobbies so little time! >From: Doug Kisala >To: Sam Vastano , PRR talk >Subject: Re: [PRR] (PRR) M1A VS M1B >Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:09:44 -0700 (PDT) > >Sam, list, > >There is a minor exterior difference between the M1a >and M1b. We'll start on page 198 of Pennsy Power I. >This shows M1a engines 6707 and 6775 as built. >Concentrate on the firebox area of the engines. Once >you have that fixed in your mind, turn to page 213 of >Pennsy Power I. The top photo is a shot of M1b 6761. >Just forward of the cab are 3 washout plugs (only 2 >are visible in the photo) on each side of the firebox, >just above the running board. Only M1b engines have >the circulator washout plugs; no M1a or M1 engines >ever received them. There are 3 on each side of the >firebox; the one closest to the cab is the highest, >and the one furthest forward is the lowest. > >If you have Carleton's Pennsy Steam: A to T (1989), >see page 170. The lower photo is a nice broadside of >M1b 6736 that shows the circulator washout plugs very >nicely. > >The M1b engines had new boilers rated for 270 PSI (vs >250); aside from the circulator washout plugs, I know >of no other external features that distinguished them >from the M1a engines. > >Doug > > > >--- Sam Vastano wrote: > > Group, > > > > What are the spotting differences between the M1A & > > M1B. Might sound like a > > dumb question but a friend asked me and I couldn't > > give him an answer. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Sam Vastano > > So many hobbies so little time! > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with this list, please visit >http://lists.dsop.com. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. >http://personals.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 06:26:11 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Hi, on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar directly behind the GG1. Can someone identify this car? Thanks, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:32:50 -0800 Subject: [PRR] Assistance with PRR Photos From: "Douglas Nelson" From: "Douglas Nelson" To: PRR@yahoogroups.com , PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Help with PRR Photos Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2001, 10:27 AM Greetings: I am still looking for some help identifying some PRR photos which were all taken in September 1956. The can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=13716481&f=0 Photos 1 & 2: These were taken in the Pittsburgh Region (Division?) offices in the tower above the Pittsburgh station. Can anyone identify any of these gentlemen? One of them may be Region (Division?) Superintendent W.G Dorwart. Photo 3: This I believe is the dispatchers room on the 10th floor. Photo 4: Is this PITT Tower? Photo 5: Can anyone identify this crew in the cab of an E7? It looks like engineer and fireman. Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. PRRT&HS #4852 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:27:14 -0800 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Help with PRR Photos Greetings: I am still looking for some help identifying some PRR photos which were all taken in September 1956. The can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=13716481&f=0 Photos 1 & 2: These were taken in the Pittsburgh Region (Division?) offices in the tower above the Pittsburgh station. Can anyone identify any of these gentlemen? One of them may be Region (Division?) Superintendent W.G Dorwart. Photo 3: This I believe is the dispatchers room on the 10th floor. Photo 4: Is this PITT Tower? Photo 5: Can anyone identify this crew in the cab of an E7? It looks like engineer and fireman. Thanks for any help. Doug Nelson. PRRT&HS #4852 "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:50:33 EST Subject: [PRR] 1955 PRR Through Freight Schedules In a message dated 10/28/01 12:12:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, PRR-Talk@dsop.com writes: << Subject: New Website From: "Randy Williamson" Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 23:30:30 -0500 For anyone interested I have created a new website: http://www.randsrailstuff.net/Pennsylvania%20Railroad%20Freight%20Schedules/HO ME.htm 1955 PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD THROUGH FREIGHT SCHEDULES please drop by and take a look. if you have any comments or if you have any information that I would be of use please let me know. Regards, Randy >> Jim, This looks just like what we were wishing for yesterday. Combine this with the caboose assignments database that's on web, and you've got a convincing picture of mid-1950's operation. Of course, the T1's were probably off the Columbus Division by then, but you can't have everything . Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-228-4997 (8am to 8pm please) Fax 502-426-0089 (for now) Wolf Penn Station 5108 Wolf Pen Woods Drive Prospect, KY 40059-9197 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:29:46 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > Hi, > on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger > train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar > directly behind the GG1. > Can someone identify this car? Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. I believe that Model Railroader will have an article on them in the next issue and there is a comprehensive article in Railway Prorotype Cyclopedia volume 5. A number of folks have offered "kits" of these cars and conversions, with Cannonball Car Shop being the latest. The detail is a little crude for the price (they also offer a Troop Kitchen car that is a little nicer, but still alcks all underbody detail) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:25:09 -0600 Ralph Barger is publishing a book on the troop sleepers. I believe that very recently a styrene version of the sleeper has been issued by some manufacturer other than Cannonball for about $30.00. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F Smith [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 9:30 PM To: Geoffrey Van Dooren Cc: PRR talk list Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > Hi, > on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger > train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar > directly behind the GG1. > Can someone identify this car? Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. I believe that Model Railroader will have an article on them in the next issue and there is a comprehensive article in Railway Prorotype Cyclopedia volume 5. A number of folks have offered "kits" of these cars and conversions, with Cannonball Car Shop being the latest. The detail is a little crude for the price (they also offer a Troop Kitchen car that is a little nicer, but still alcks all underbody detail) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:49:35 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial I am not home with my library to look up the photo, but if Bruce is right (and he usually is) and the car is a converted troop sleeper, the odds are its a New Haven car. NH converted lots of these into baggage cars and mail storage cars. And most PRR trains on the corridor in the 50s had at least one coming or going to Boston. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ============================================================ Bruce F Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > > Hi, > > on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger > > train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar > > directly behind the GG1. > > Can someone identify this car? > > Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World > War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but > it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the > need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed > to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the > photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. > Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either > for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. I believe that Model Railroader > will have an article on them in the next issue and there is a > comprehensive article in Railway Prorotype Cyclopedia volume 5. A number > of folks have offered "kits" of these cars and conversions, with > Cannonball Car Shop being the latest. The detail is a little crude for > the price (they also offer a Troop Kitchen car that is a little nicer, but > still alcks all underbody detail) > > Happy Rails > Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:59:22 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Bruce F Smith wrote: > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > > Hi, > > on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger > > train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar > > directly behind the GG1. > > Can someone identify this car? > > Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World > War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but > it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the > need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed > to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the > photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. > Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either > for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. .... they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a passenger train? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:29:54 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial I said: >> Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World >> War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but >> it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the >> need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed >> to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the >> photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. >> Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either >> for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. and Charles asked: >they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a >passenger train? Actually, they make great sense! Built as passenger cars, they had all the needed accessories (like high speed trucks, steam and signal lines). The interiors were gutted, windows were blanked out, and doors modified to baggage car-like doors (in some cases).These cars handled express freight, which in the days before FedEx and UPS was most often carried in baggage cars and converted box cars (e.g. PRR X-29 REA cars) as "head end" freight on passenger trains. Many ran through on trains throughout the country (as did the X-29s, and B-60bs). Andy Miller suggested New Haven as the road for this particular car, and I would concur, although B&M might be another possibility. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:31:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial In a message dated 10/29/2001 10:05:58 AM Central Standard Time, charlesr@infonline.net writes: << they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a passenger train? >> Railway Express. Pennsy trains saw at least New Haven, NYC, REA, and Burlington express and REA express reefer cars converted from either troop sleepers or (don't leave out) troop kitchen cars. The New Haven cars were common on the corridor and East-West. The Burlington in East-West. I have seen the NYC cars in photos of the Buffalo Day Express. And of course REA cars anywhere. Much as I like the cars and I have some brass ones picked up at bargains (I will use one of the kitchen cars as the Burlington express conversion) , I have hesitated at buying the Cannonball cars because to me the rivets look enormous. I have one of the older brittle kits to do a New Haven car (I have a pair of the old metal Cape Line Allied full-cushion trucks---great runners) and, despite its handicaps, I don't think the rivets are as big. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Hom" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:37:57 -0700 Charles Ring asked concerning ex-Troop Sleepers: " they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a passenger train?" Plenty - the railroads garnered substantial revenues from express service, and by the twilight of passenger service in the 1960s, were earning more from express handled on passenger trains than from carrying passengers. The converted troop cars were a quick and cheap way for railroads to pick up equipment for this service - these cars were already equipped with passenger brakes, steam and signal lines, and high-speed trucks. Passenger train operations are far more interesting than you might think - railroad advertising featuring matching streamliners gives you a picture that is far less common than what Rivarossi or Athearn would have you believe. Check out the "24 Hours at Harrisburg" pages on Jerry's website to see just how varied the consists really were. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:59:10 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Bob sez: >Much as I like the cars and I have some brass ones picked up at bargains (I >will use one of the kitchen cars as the Burlington express conversion) , I >have hesitated at buying the Cannonball cars because to me the rivets look >enormous. I have one of the older brittle kits to do a New Haven car (I have >a pair of the old metal Cape Line Allied full-cushion trucks---great runners) >and, despite its handicaps, I don't think the rivets are as big. Can you say hamburgers? The rivets on the MRRW/Cannoball Sleepers are huge, and the comparison is made worse by the kitchen car which has very nice prototype rivets. Detail on these cars is spotty at best - the underbodies, which are quite visible have almost no detail, and the windows don't have sashes! Apparrently these kits were reviewed in Model Railroading News this month...anyone seen it? As I think I mentioned a few months ago, rumor has it Intermountain is releasing troop sleeper and kitchen kits next year...of course, I'll have to finish my cannonball kits before they will release theirs ! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:02:03 -0600 At recent flea markers, I have seen styrene kits of the troop sleepers. They look like rather new releases. Are these Canonball kits or from some other manufacturer? -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 10:31 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial In a message dated 10/29/2001 10:05:58 AM Central Standard Time, charlesr@infonline.net writes: << they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a passenger train? >> Railway Express. Pennsy trains saw at least New Haven, NYC, REA, and Burlington express and REA express reefer cars converted from either troop sleepers or (don't leave out) troop kitchen cars. The New Haven cars were common on the corridor and East-West. The Burlington in East-West. I have seen the NYC cars in photos of the Buffalo Day Express. And of course REA cars anywhere. Much as I like the cars and I have some brass ones picked up at bargains (I will use one of the kitchen cars as the Burlington express conversion) , I have hesitated at buying the Cannonball cars because to me the rivets look enormous. I have one of the older brittle kits to do a New Haven car (I have a pair of the old metal Cape Line Allied full-cushion trucks---great runners) and, despite its handicaps, I don't think the rivets are as big. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:07:05 -0500 Charles, Being at trackside in the mid 60's I saw these cars quite commonly on NY-Washington passenger trains. Mostly lettered New Haven, but once in awhile you'd see NYC also. These cars had their windows plated over with steel patch panels, and most retained their small side entry doors and steam heat lines. Thus, you had a boxcar allready on passenger rated trucks, equiped for passenger service. Instant head-end equipment at a minimal cost. Hope this helps. C.Burnley Jr. PRRT&HS #271 -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ring [mailto:charlesr@infonline.net] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 10:59 AM To: Bruce F Smith Cc: Geoffrey Van Dooren; PRR talk list Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Bruce F Smith wrote: > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001, Geoffrey Van Dooren wrote: > > Hi, > > on page 104 of this book is a picture of a passanger > > train pulled by a GG1. There is a strange boxcar > > directly behind the GG1. > > Can someone identify this car? > > Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World > War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but > it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the > need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed > to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the > photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. > Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either > for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. .... they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a passenger train? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:29:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial >At recent flea markers, I have seen styrene kits of the troop sleepers. >They look like rather new releases. Are these Canonball kits or from some >other manufacturer? Cannonball (sold through Model Railroad Warehouse) is the only company I'm aware of that has sold a styrene kit for the troop sleepers and kitchen cars recently. There have been several resin kits from a number of folks to cover some of the express car modifications, but these have been railroad specific. Cannonball offers a number of kits that can be used to model many of the modified express cars. The web site http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/default.htm has more information. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: jconsoli@paonline.com Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:05:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR-FAX] Help with PRR Photos Doug, Photo #4 doesn't look like PITT tower to me. Check out the interior view of PITT in "Pennsy in the Steel City" on page 22. The machine is significantly larger than the one in photo 4, and the general appearance of the interior is of an older and more cramped facility than PITT. Maybe one of the ex-PRR guys can answer this one. Jack Consoli ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:25:09 -0500 Listers, Read the review in Model Railroading News this month. The reviewer did not mention anything about the rivet size. Otherwise he gave them a good review. The photo of the REA car looks pretty nice. Mentions photos at mrrwarehouse.com Chris Chany Bruce wrote: The rivets on the MRRW/Cannoball Sleepers are huge, and the comparison is made worse by the kitchen car which has very nice prototype rivets. Detail on these cars is spotty at best - the underbodies, which are quite visible have almost no detail, and the windows don't have sashes! Apparrently these kits were reviewed in Model Railroading News this month...anyone seen it? As I think I mentioned a few months ago, rumor has it Intermountain is releasing troop sleeper and kitchen kits next year...of course, I'll have to finish my cannonball kits before they will release theirs ! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:30:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Searchable Periodicals Database From: Jerry Britton Some of the indexes of periodicals in the Library section of Keystone Crossings (http://kc.pennsyrr.com/library/) contain tables so large that some user's browsers have not been able to display them in their entirety. In order to alleviate that long standing problem, plus the searchability of the data, I have created a database which will eventually hold all of the indexes in one easy to use format. The database has been created, though I may tweak the GUI as user's feedback warrants. I have completely converted the full index of "The Keystone", the magazine of the PRRT&HS. I will be converting "Pennsy Journal" shortly. Let me know if you think this is better than the static HTML table listings. (The table listing of "The Keystone" is still present for comparison.) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:39:08 -0600 Do you know if these are Cannonball products? I spoke with Ralph Barger, who is in the process of writing a comprehensive book on these new models, and he intidated that he is not impressed with them. I did not follow-up on his reasoning. -----Original Message----- From: Chany, Christopher [mailto:cpc1@westchestergov.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:25 AM To: 'Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.'; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Listers, Read the review in Model Railroading News this month. The reviewer did not mention anything about the rivet size. Otherwise he gave them a good review. The photo of the REA car looks pretty nice. Mentions photos at mrrwarehouse.com Chris Chany Bruce wrote: The rivets on the MRRW/Cannoball Sleepers are huge, and the comparison is made worse by the kitchen car which has very nice prototype rivets. Detail on these cars is spotty at best - the underbodies, which are quite visible have almost no detail, and the windows don't have sashes! Apparrently these kits were reviewed in Model Railroading News this month...anyone seen it? As I think I mentioned a few months ago, rumor has it Intermountain is releasing troop sleeper and kitchen kits next year...of course, I'll have to finish my cannonball kits before they will release theirs ! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:14:17 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Troop cars was: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Marvin asks >Do you know if these are Cannonball products? I spoke with Ralph Barger, >who is in the process of writing a comprehensive book on these new models, >and he intidated that he is not impressed with them. I did not follow-up on >his reasoning. > >Chris Chany said: >Read the review in Model Railroading News this month. The reviewer did not >mention anything about the rivet size. Otherwise he gave them a good >review. The photo of the REA car looks pretty nice. Mentions photos at >mrrwarehouse.com Yes, these are Cannonball (They are AFAIK, the ONLY styrene kits of these cars). MRNews is pretty well known for its soft reviews. Heck, Model Railroader was too, but Andy S just published a couple of pointed ones...now I hear rumors that he is out and Russ "toy train" Larson is in. Honesty doesn't win you friends! I would politely call the Cannonball cars "dissappointing", since they cost around $25 each, which is the same as a Westerfield or Sunshine kit, and twice what I pay for Red Caboose, IM, or LLP2K. I have four of the sleepers and one kitchen. Like I said, when I get all finished gussying them up to my standards, IM will release a kit! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: Troop sleeper/express service box cars was [PRR] Pennsy Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:18:50 -0500 They are by Cannonball car shops/Model Railroad warehouse. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:32:14 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] About those WW2 troop sleepers... I have this vague memory of reading somewhere that once the railroads started running the sleepers as head-end cars, some fatal flaw in the trucks was exposed, causing all of them to be replaced. Am I imagining that, or did that really happen that way? If so, what was the flaw? Not really a PRR question, as they didn't buy into that deal. (Maybe they knew something about the trucks that all those others didn't?) ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] About those WW2 troop sleepers... Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:53:41 -0500 Bob & List: Micro-Trains has just come out with Allied Full Cushion trucks in N scale, and their description talks about derailment problems resulting in the banning of these trucks by 1955. Funny though, I was a sales rep. for the PRR in Baltimore in 1965-66 and clearly remember an MP car with these trucks in the Calvert St. yard. It was a forty foot boxcar that may have at one time been in mail or express service. It was derailed, but by the spring thaw (a "standing derailment") not the trucks. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert netzlof" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: [PRR] About those WW2 troop sleepers... > I have this vague memory of reading somewhere that > once the railroads started running the sleepers as > head-end cars, some fatal flaw in the trucks was > exposed, causing all of them to be replaced. > > Am I imagining that, or did that really happen that > way? If so, what was the flaw? > > Not really a PRR question, as they didn't buy into > that deal. (Maybe they knew something about the trucks > that all those others didn't?) > > > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:28:17 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] About those WW2 troop sleepers... Sweet Old Bob sez: >I have this vague memory of reading somewhere that >once the railroads started running the sleepers as >head-end cars, some fatal flaw in the trucks was >exposed, causing all of them to be replaced. > >Am I imagining that, or did that really happen that >way? If so, what was the flaw? > >Not really a PRR question, as they didn't buy into >that deal. (Maybe they knew something about the trucks >that all those others didn't?) Actually Bob, it IS a PRR question! As mentioned by Greg, the trucks in question were Allied Full Motion trucks. When the PRR converted boxcars to P-30a Troop Sleepers, they wanted to use Barrett-Whitehead trucks, but the powers that be decreed that for interchange, PRR must use a swing motion truck, and so PRR swapped some Allied Full Cushion trucks that were at that time under gons I believe, put passenger springs in them and used those. The PRR boxcars modified for commuter service (P-78, 78a, 78b, 78t) never went off the PRR and thus had the Barrett-Whitehead trucks. When the P-30s were converted back to boxcars, they were also given "normal" PRR freight trucks. As for the "flaw"...the trucks did not have a "flaw" per se, rather their construction made them very difficult to fully inspect. Thus, these trucks were involved in some derailments due to lax inspection and were subsequently banned from interchange service. A number of troop car conversions ran on these trucks into the 70s in MOW service! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:42:09 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] About those WW2 troop sleepers... --- "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > Sweet Old Bob sez: > >I have this vague memory... > Actually Bob, it IS a PRR question!... > As for the "flaw"...the trucks did not have a "flaw" > per se, rather their > construction made them very difficult to fully > inspect. Well, I suppose one could debate "What constitutes a flaw?" > ...these trucks > were involved in some derailments due to lax > inspection... Which I suppose one might call a design flaw. That is, given that some part needs to be inspected, and the design makes it easy to overlook, well, shame on the designer, or, "a flaw in the design". I think the vague memory suggested something of the sort you explained and called it a flaw. I hadn't intended by that term to imply a crack in each sideframe, or a too thin casting, nor anything else that gross. Nothing above is intended as flamage. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:13:38 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: [PRR] 4999 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > any particular reason why you have the R1 rather than a GG1 in your sig file? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:16:04 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > I said: > >> Hey Geoffrey, ask us a hard one ! The car depicted is a post World > >> War II conversion of a Troop Sleeper. I can't make out the Railroad, but > >> it is NOT PRR. 2000 of these cars were built in 1943-44 to handle the > >> need for extra cars for troop movements in the US. The cars were designed > >> to be converted post war into express box cars, and you can see in the > >> photo that the car is riding on its original Allied Full Motion trucks. > >> Quite a few railroads purchased the used cars and converted them, either > >> for head end use, of as MOW camp cars. > > and Charles asked: > >they make sense as MOW camp cars, but of what use were they behind a GG1 on a > >passenger train? > > Actually, they make great sense! Built as passenger cars, they had all the > needed accessories (like high speed trucks, steam and signal lines). The > interiors were gutted, windows were blanked out, and doors modified to > baggage car-like doors (in some cases).These cars handled express freight, > which in the days before FedEx and UPS was most often carried in baggage > cars and converted box cars (e.g. PRR X-29 REA cars) as "head end" freight > on passenger trains. Many ran through on trains throughout the country (as > did the X-29s, and B-60bs). Andy Miller suggested New Haven as the road > for this particular car, and I would concur, although B&M might be another > possibility. > > Happy Rails > Bruce > thanks. no doubt i have seen them but didn't know their origin. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:37:47 EST From: BCFDevd@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial Sorry for being off topic but this is my only source for help. I was called up to active duty due to the cowardly acts of Sept 11th. At the base I am I only have access to e mail. Does anyone know of any good train shops for HO scale in the Norfolk, Hampton Roads area? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Douglas Nelson" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:40:00 -0800 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRR Dividends? I believe that I have read somewhere that the PRR held the longest record for paying stockholder dividends of any U.S. corporation. Can someone confirm this? What year did the dividend payments stop? Has any corporation surpassed this record? Thanks, Doug Nelson PRRT&HS #4852 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:39:36 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] Need help from Harrisburg Hi List, I am working on the Harrisburg area of my layout and am trying to place my trackside industries & railroad structures in their proper places,circa 1953-54. So far I have located the following buildings, starting from Paxton St north to Maclay St. West side of tracks- Capital tower, Reading RR bridge, Mulberry St. bridge, Reading Station, Hbg.Patriot News, Pa. Light & Power, Hbg. Steel gas cylinder plant, Herr St. underpass, Hbg. Steel Co., Slag dump, Fuel storage tanks, Maclay St. bridge. East side of tracks- Hbg.substation, Hbg.Storage Co., Hbg.Gas Co., CV branch, REA bldg., Station, Harris tower, State St. bridge, Reilly St. yard & maintenence bldgs. Could any of you Harrisburgers fill in the empty spaces in my list, please. Thanks in advance, Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling the C&PD in HO ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Protect your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE guide: "Securing Your Website for business" Get it Now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/M.WTOC/m1FDAA/cosFAA/raYplB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:39:36 -0500 From: "Dr. Edmond L. Freed" Subject: [PRR] Need help from Harrisburg Hi List, I am working on the Harrisburg area of my layout and am trying to place my trackside industries & railroad structures in their proper places,circa 1953-54. So far I have located the following buildings, starting from Paxton St north to Maclay St. West side of tracks- Capital tower, Reading RR bridge, Mulberry St. bridge, Reading Station, Hbg.Patriot News, Pa. Light & Power, Hbg. Steel gas cylinder plant, Herr St. underpass, Hbg. Steel Co., Slag dump, Fuel storage tanks, Maclay St. bridge. East side of tracks- Hbg.substation, Hbg.Storage Co., Hbg.Gas Co., CV branch, REA bldg., Station, Harris tower, State St. bridge, Reilly St. yard & maintenence bldgs. Could any of you Harrisburgers fill in the empty spaces in my list, please. Thanks in advance, Dr. Edmond L. Freed PRRT&HS # 156 Modeling the C&PD in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:16:08 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Need help from Harrisburg Greetings to Edmond & the list: On the west side: Going north from Paxton Street, one would have seen the PRR freight station. Also, remember that at that time the CVRR connection simply led onto the CV bridge from the first several tracks of the passenger station, it was not yet a wye. That didn't happen until Penn Central did some hasty rearranging in the aftermath of the Tropical Storm Agnes flood of June 1972 (when it lost Shocks Mill Bridge and needed another way to move Phila/NY freight to/from Enola--still required a reverse move but it was better than two reverse moves, or running everything via Rockville). North of the passenger station was/is the Market Street underpass, which was known in PRR parlance as a "subway." Although it was in its last days as the redevelopment of the state capitol complex was progressing, a Swift & Co. packing house (slaughterhouse) stood just north of the State Street Bridge and south of the Herr Street "subway." One block up Reily Street from the tracks on the west side was the PRR YMCA, now Bethesda Mission. On the east side--again, starting from Paxton Street and moving north: Reading (PH&P Branch) overhead bridge is first, then RDG Capitol Tower, not the other way around. Capitol sits within the wye created by the intersection of the PH&P, the Lebanon Valley Branch, and "the connection," RDG's access to its former passenger station and interchange with PRR. What I believe you're citing as "Pennsylvania Light & Power" is probably actually the Harrisburg Steam Plant, not owned by Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. The plant still supplies steam heat to downtown customers (at one time, it heated most, if not all, PRR buildings in the area, including the passenger station). Adjacent to the tracks on the east side, north of the Herr Street subway, was the Harrisburg Pipe and Pipe Bending Co. One structure that still stands at the east side of that subway is the aptly named Subway, a local watering hole and Italian restaurant that once was frequented by railroaders and Harrisburg Steel Co. employees. Hope this helps. Dan Cupper ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Edmond L. Freed wrote: > > Hi List, > I am working on the Harrisburg area of my layout and am trying to place > my trackside industries & railroad structures in their proper > places,circa 1953-54. > > So far I have located the following buildings, starting from Paxton St > north to Maclay St. > > West side of tracks- > Capital tower, Reading RR bridge, Mulberry St. bridge, Reading Station, > Hbg.Patriot News, Pa. Light & Power, Hbg. Steel gas cylinder plant, Herr > St. underpass, Hbg. Steel Co., Slag dump, Fuel storage tanks, Maclay St. > bridge. > > East side of tracks- > Hbg.substation, Hbg.Storage Co., Hbg.Gas Co., CV branch, REA bldg., > Station, Harris tower, State St. bridge, Reilly St. yard & maintenence > bldgs. > > Could any of you Harrisburgers fill in the empty spaces in my list, > please. > Thanks in advance, > > Dr. Edmond L. Freed > PRRT&HS # 156 > Modeling the C&PD in HO > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:20:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Need help from Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton On 10/30/01 7:39 PM, Dr. Edmond L. Freed at (docfoot@bellsouth.net) wrote: > I am working on the Harrisburg area of my layout and am trying to place > my trackside industries & railroad structures in their proper > places,circa 1953-54. Download the CT1000E from 1945 from Keystone Crossings. It's in the Documents section and will list every business along the way in 1/10 mile increments. > > So far I have located the following buildings, starting from Paxton St > north to Maclay St. You have your west/east sides reversed... > > West side of tracks- > Capital tower, Reading RR bridge, Mulberry St. bridge, Reading Station, > Hbg.Patriot News, Pa. Light & Power, Hbg. Steel gas cylinder plant, Herr > St. underpass, Hbg. Steel Co., Slag dump, Fuel storage tanks, Maclay St. > bridge. The Patriot News wasn't there then. There were team tracks there. I have a valuation map. > > East side of tracks- > Hbg.substation, Hbg.Storage Co., Hbg.Gas Co., CV branch, REA bldg., > Station, Harris tower, State St. bridge, Reilly St. yard & maintenence > bldgs. > > Could any of you Harrisburgers fill in the empty spaces in my list, > please. Where are you physically located? Anywhere near Harrisburg? Perhaps we should get together. I have accumulated a ton of stuff on Harrisburg as I am modeling it in 1954, one year later than you. I wanted to include PRR trailer-on-flat service (started 6/54) and a few Shadow Keystone logos (spring 1954). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:46:49 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Doug and the group, I was the third floor host a few weeks back at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in Altoona. That's the floor with the test plant, train layout and business displays. I seem to remember reading on one of the displays that the PRR did have the longest dividend history. I think they ended in 1946. The business display goes on to explain how this was at the expence of the employees. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 08:40 PM 10/30/2001 -0800, you wrote: >I believe that I have read somewhere that the PRR held the longest record >for paying stockholder dividends of any U.S. corporation. Can someone >confirm this? > >What year did the dividend payments stop? Has any corporation surpassed >this record? > >Thanks, >Doug Nelson >PRRT&HS #4852 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:55:04 -0500 Of course, in order to keep paying that dividend the PRR deferred maintenance with the inevitable results. Chris Chany -----Original Message----- From: Cadwell, Marvin L [mailto:cadwelml@bp.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:12 AM To: 'Douglas Nelson'; PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Dividends? I think payment of the dividends continued until the year of ther merger with the NYC. At the end, however, they were only 25 cents a share. I think the statement has appeared in Trains magazine more than once. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Nelson [mailto:dougnelson@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:40 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Dividends? I believe that I have read somewhere that the PRR held the longest record for paying stockholder dividends of any U.S. corporation. Can someone confirm this? What year did the dividend payments stop? Has any corporation surpassed this record? Thanks, Doug Nelson PRRT&HS #4852 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:01:43 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Electric Pictorial I am frequently in the Norfolk/ HR area and have not found much in the way good hobby shops. Here's what I do know of: - There is a hobby shop in the Navy Yard. Its across the street from the power plant at the north end of the yard. - There is a hobby shop on Chesapeake Blvd about 4 lights East of I64. It will be on your left as you drive east. Look for the crossbucks. - One is in a shopping center (Hungate?) on Jefferson Blvd at the north end of Newport News. - The best is probably the one in Williamsburg, but thats along haul and he's not THAT great - just the best of a poor bunch. Check out the Model RR Clubs. The HO club is on Dare Rd in York right behind the new drug store on US 17. The N scale club is in the Lee Hall Station at the far north end of Newport News. They are both better than the local hobby shops would suggest. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== BCFDevd@aol.com wrote: > > Sorry for being off topic but this is my only source for help. I was called > up to active duty due to the cowardly acts of Sept 11th. At the base I am I > only have access to e mail. Does anyone know of any good train shops for HO > scale in the Norfolk, Hampton Roads area? Thanks > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:33:01 EST Subject: [PRR] "O" SCALE UPDATE A new Weaver catalog - New items: Plastic composite side two bay hoppers perhaps a "stand in" for an H-31b, but they look to be still to long 36' instead of 32' Weaver is also offering brass versions of the New Haven Pullman Coaches that AC Gilbert modeled - and the real ones became know as the "American Flyer Cars" - I never saw the real ones, the AF cars were red - Weaver offers the cars two or three rail in hunter green or red and black (not red) is this the way they really looked? Both cars are offered painted PRR Tuscan. Takes a lot of "pretending" - but the coaches are scale length aluminum and are listed @ 2 for $229 - a great deal in "O" scale - most visitors wouldn't know that they are not a rare P-70 variant. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:18:22 EST From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Doug: According to the information I have, the PRR paid dividends each quarter through and including Dec. 1967. The next dividend would have been due March 1968 by then the PRR no longer existed. Somewhere I read that GE has now surpassed the PRR for most consecutive quarterly dividend paymentw without missing one. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Keith Pomroy" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:41:16 -0500 I may be wrong on some these details, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that in later years, the PRR was able to make dividend payments only because it was earning dividend income from its N&W stock (58% of which it owned in the late 1950s or so). In other words, the PRR was a conduit for N&W dividends. In the 60s, also, the income from the diversification program apparently was used to fund the dividend payments, until those investments turned sour. And, I remember reading somewhere that the PC continued the dividend policy for several years afterward, perhaps until the Spring of 1970, when things really began to fall apart. On another track--in the letter of the law if not in spirit, the Pennsy continued its corporate existence after the merger. The merger was not really a merger of equals--the PRR was the surviving corporation and changed its name to the Pennsylvania-New York Central Transportation Co., later officially named the Penn Central Transportation Co. Through a number of corporate shufflings, the Penn Central shell continued after Conrail's formation. It was only in 1994 or 1995 that PC changed its name to American Premier Underwriters, to reflect the insurance business that it had long since become. The PRR heritage, however, was still visible in APU's financial documents as late as 1996 or 1997, in the form of environmental lawsuits over PCB and other contamination at various former PRR yards, such as the Paoli terminal. Since then, APU has been merged into the American Financial Group. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Nelson Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:40 PM To: PRR@yahoogroups.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] PRR Dividends? I believe that I have read somewhere that the PRR held the longest record for paying stockholder dividends of any U.S. corporation. Can someone confirm this? What year did the dividend payments stop? Has any corporation surpassed this record? Thanks, Doug Nelson PRRT&HS #4852 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:01:05 -0500 (EST) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Dividends? >I think payment of the dividends continued until the year of ther merger >with the NYC. At the end, however, they were only 25 cents a share. and >The business display goes on to explain how this was at the expence of the >employees. An interesting note on inflation and how long a time the PRR was a viable company: My grandfather's PRR pay stubs during one period of the 1920's show his laborer's wage rate as 25 cents an hour. Carl Haslett PRRT&HS #6348 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:32:11 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Carl and the List: Well, that was a big step up from the laborers who worked on building Enola Yard, Rockville Bridge, and Shocks Mill Bridge, who got $1.25-$1.50 a day. Dan Cupper -------------------------------------- chaslett@cse.l-3com.com wrote: > > > An interesting note on inflation and how long a time the PRR was a viable > company: My grandfather's PRR pay stubs during one period of the 1920's > show his laborer's wage rate as 25 cents an hour. > > Carl Haslett > PRRT&HS #6348 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:18:37 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? chaslett@cse.l-3com.com wrote: > >I think payment of the dividends continued until the year of ther merger > >with the NYC. At the end, however, they were only 25 cents a share. > > and > > >The business display goes on to explain how this was at the expence of the > >employees. > > An interesting note on inflation and how long a time the PRR was a viable > company: My grandfather's PRR pay stubs during one period of the 1920's > show his laborer's wage rate as 25 cents an hour. > > Carl Haslett > PRRT&HS #6348 > one detail i remember from my father (yardmaster mostly at Niles and Goodman 1942-80) was that PRR forbade its employees from holding any second job outside the railroad, this being typical of the corporate paternalism of the era with the thinking that any second job would interfere with one's availability for the railroad, and that one's PRR salary should be enough to live on. How accurate is my recollection? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:26 -0500 Charles' The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. Most railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now referred to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. Gregg Mahlkov PRR employee 1962-1968 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ring" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? > > > chaslett@cse.l-3com.com wrote: > > > >I think payment of the dividends continued until the year of ther merger > > >with the NYC. At the end, however, they were only 25 cents a share. > > > > and > > > > >The business display goes on to explain how this was at the expence of the > > >employees. > > > > An interesting note on inflation and how long a time the PRR was a viable > > company: My grandfather's PRR pay stubs during one period of the 1920's > > show his laborer's wage rate as 25 cents an hour. > > > > Carl Haslett > > PRRT&HS #6348 > > > > one detail i remember from my father (yardmaster mostly at Niles and Goodman > 1942-80) was that PRR forbade its employees from holding any second job outside > the railroad, this being typical of the corporate paternalism of the era with > the thinking that any second job would interfere with one's availability for > the railroad, and that one's PRR salary should be enough to live on. How > accurate is my recollection? > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:52:30 -0500 From: Charles Ring Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Charles' > > The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. Most > railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. > Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. do present day railroads still do this? > > > PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now referred > to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. > i didnt know about that one. was the reason simply "keeping up appearances" or something more? i suspect there was little trouble with that rule since those it applied to could well afford better. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:45:18 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ring" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? > > > Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > Charles' > > > > The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. Most > > railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. > > Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. > > do present day railroads still do this? > > > > > > > PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now referred > > to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. > > > > i didnt know about that one. was the reason simply "keeping up appearances" or > something more? i suspect there was little trouble with that rule since those it > applied to could well afford better. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:44:58 -0500 Charles: I expect this is still true on the Class I's, at least for those in Train & Engine Service and non-agreement transportation department employees. I know trainmasters on CSXT that on occasion haven't seen a bed in 48 hours and their own bed for a week. Hold down a second job???? I will say this about salaries - when the PRR and NYC merged I made a third more than my NYC counterpart, but his expense account was four times mine and he didn't spend it all on customers either. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Ring" To: "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? > > > Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > Charles' > > > > The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. Most > > railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. > > Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. > > do present day railroads still do this? > > > > > > > PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now referred > > to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. > > > > i didnt know about that one. was the reason simply "keeping up appearances" or > something more? i suspect there was little trouble with that rule since those it > applied to could well afford better. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:46:03 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: "Charles Ring" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? > Charles: > > I expect this is still true on the Class I's, at least for those in Train & > Engine Service and non-agreement transportation department employees. I know > trainmasters on CSXT that on occasion haven't seen a bed in 48 hours and > their own bed for a week. Hold down a second job???? > > I will say this about salaries - when the PRR and NYC merged I made a third > more than my NYC counterpart, but his expense account was four times mine > and he didn't spend it all on customers either. > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Ring" > To: "Gregg Mahlkov" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? > > > > > > > > Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > > > > > Charles' > > > > > > The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. > Most > > > railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. > > > Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. > > > > do present day railroads still do this? > > > > > > > > > > > PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now > referred > > > to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. > > > > > > > i didnt know about that one. was the reason simply "keeping up > appearances" or > > something more? i suspect there was little trouble with that rule since > those it > > applied to could well afford better. > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 05:50:04 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Staron Subject: [PRR] flood book I'm in need of some help with the following book. A friend is trying to purchase my extra copy but we are at odds over the fair market price of this book. Since it is a book prepared for the Management of the Pennsylvania lines west I assume it is somewhat rare. Any help on pricing from the list members would help I don't want to take chances at auction. the book is Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh: A History of the Flood of March, 1913. by Garrett, Chas. W. Pittsburgh, PA: Wm. G. Johnston & Co., c1913, p.257, illus., cm. Any help would be apprecated __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:00:51 -0600 As indicated, the prohibition against working a second job is not simply a PRR edict. Some companies employed this policy well into the 70s. I worked for one. -----Original Message----- From: Charles Ring [mailto:charlesr@infonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:53 PM To: Gregg Mahlkov Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Dividends? Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Charles' > > The prohibition against working a second job was not a PRR edict alone. Most > railroads had this, especially for those who were "on call" or salaried. > Salaried employees were considered "on duty" 168 hours per week. do present day railroads still do this? > > > PRR also forbade non-agreement employees from living in what is now referred > to as "manufactured housing" and was then known as house trailers. > i didnt know about that one. was the reason simply "keeping up appearances" or something more? i suspect there was little trouble with that rule since those it applied to could well afford better. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: [PRR] R50B Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:06:15 -0500 Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would be great Thanks Mark Franke ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:23:26 -0500 From: "Andrew S. Miller" Subject: [PRR] New Walthers Passenger Cars Someone on the Passenger car list passed the word that Walthers has just announced four new HO cars. One is an REA Express reefer (stealing the thunder from the long overdue Branchline kit) and another appears to be a Congo Parlor Car! Will Walthers be doing the whole Congo/Senator??? :-)))) http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6241 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6445 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6421 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-6405 -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:24:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] flood book From: Jerry Britton On 11/1/01 8:50 AM, Dan Staron (norats00@yahoo.com) wrote: > I'm in need of some help with the following book. A > friend is trying to purchase my extra copy but we are > at odds over the fair market price of this book. > > Since it is a book prepared for the Management of the > Pennsylvania lines west I assume it is somewhat rare. > > Any help on pricing from the list members would help I > don't want to take chances at auction. > > the book is > > Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh: A History of > the Flood of March, 1913. by Garrett, Chas. W. > Pittsburgh, PA: Wm. G. Johnston & Co., c1913, p.257, > illus., cm. > I can't speak for that book, but all of the PRR Flood books are very rare. I can't remember seeing one go on eBay for less than $100, though I've never seen them over $200 either. I won't say what I paid for a copy of the 1936-1937 Floods book! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:28:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Buildings in Harrisburg - Harrisburg Patriot-News From: Jerry Britton Earlier this week there was an inquiry about what buildings existed along the right-of-way through Harrisburg. I had submitted, due to valuation maps, that the Harrisburg Patriot-News may not have yet existed. The map was still showing team tracks at that location. Esteemed lister Dan Cupper suggested that the Patriot News building was built in the early 1950's. He recounted construction being affected by the Korean Conflict. Well "Kudos to Dan"... I e-mailed the patriot news and received the following reply: > In response to your e-mail to John Kirkpatrick, editor/publisher, > construction started on The Patriot-News plant at 812 Market St. on Jan. 2, > 1952. The first newspaper off the press was The Patriot on July 6, 1953. Thanks, Dan! ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:30:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B From: Jerry Britton On 10/31/01 3:06 PM, Mark Franke (mfranke@cox.rr.com) wrote: > Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would > be great Looking for someone to manufacture them in N and HO scales in plastic or resin. That would be even greater!!! ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:46:23 EST Subject: [PRR] New Walthers Passenger Cars In a message dated 11/1/01 8:32:45 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << One is an REA Express reefer (stealing the thunder from the long overdue Branchline kit) >> The Walthers car is the riveted mid to late 50's car. The Branchline kit test shots I have seen were for the 1947 welded car, useful to modelers of earlier eras. That parlor lounge looks like a Congo car---anyone care to comment? I guess the other two cars are ATSF. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:52:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Walthers Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton On 11/1/01 9:46 AM, Bobspf@aol.com (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: > In a message dated 11/1/01 8:32:45 AM Central Standard Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << One is an REA Express reefer (stealing the > thunder from the long overdue Branchline kit) >> > > The Walthers car is the riveted mid to late 50's car. The Branchline kit > test shots I have seen were for the 1947 welded car, useful to modelers of > earlier eras. That parlor lounge looks like a Congo car---anyone care to > comment? I guess the other two cars are ATSF. > The Branchline car is the earlier car, and is offered in several liveries. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:56:19 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B Mark asked: >Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would >be great Mark, Photos: PRR color guide I Pennsy Power III http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/Foreign/PRR.htm Lettering guide: The PRRT&HS published book on passenger cars (I'm blanking on the title) Note that these cars were Tuscan, with "buff" lettering (never gold). Sunshine Models has announced that they are producing an R50b in HO scale. I'm willing to bet that the release will be timed to coincide with the 2002 PRRT&HS meeting ;^) So, save your pennies, 'cause these will be verrrrrry nice! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:20:04 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] New Walthers Passenger Cars Andy asks: >Someone on the Passenger car list passed the word that Walthers has just >announced four new HO cars. One is an REA Express reefer (stealing the >thunder from the long overdue Branchline kit) and another appears to be >a Congo Parlor Car! Will Walthers be doing the whole Congo/Senator??? We can all wish, but the Walthers philosophy regarding passenger cars seems to indicate that this is not the plan :^( They are focusing on cars that can be used on multiple railraods with a common Amtrak theme rather than filling out particular train consists. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:36:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New Walthers Passenger Cars In a message dated 11/1/01 9:09:27 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes (re the REA car) : << In my 15 minutes of fame, I had my one and only MR article published on that kitbash. >> Which I remember very well as giving the best tip I have had yet on matching REA green (Japan Navy Green). Thank you. As a matter of fact, to these tired eyes, that JNG (starting another esoteric acronym:-)) matches the REA green on the decals from Sunshine. Speaking of the pre-Apple Green color, of course. Question to the list: anyone got photo or consist evidence of those ATSF s.s. baggage cars in Pennsy East-West consists in late 40's,early 50's era, if they were around that early (haven't checked the build date on the Walthers car--a question for the Passenger Car List) Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] R50B Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:25:07 -0600 Did not Kicekl Plate Products and Custom Brass (and maybe Rail Works) produce these cars in brass? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. [mailto:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:56 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B Mark asked: >Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would >be great Mark, Photos: PRR color guide I Pennsy Power III http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/Foreign/PRR.htm Lettering guide: The PRRT&HS published book on passenger cars (I'm blanking on the title) Note that these cars were Tuscan, with "buff" lettering (never gold). Sunshine Models has announced that they are producing an R50b in HO scale. I'm willing to bet that the release will be timed to coincide with the 2002 PRRT&HS meeting ;^) So, save your pennies, 'cause these will be verrrrrry nice! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 11:22:46 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: [PRR] R50B Marvin asks: >Did not Kicekl Plate Products and Custom Brass (and maybe Rail Works) >produce these cars in brass? I think at least 4 brass versions have been sold. I believe that both NPP and CB have sold R50bs. Rail Classics offered a very nice car a few years back, but these are very rare (and expensive) on the market. I personally like the Precision car (Iron Horse) as it is very detailed and usually around $100 on the open market (that said, I haven't seen on of these recently either!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 12:32:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B In a message dated 11/1/01 10:32:52 AM Central Standard Time, cadwelml@bp.com writes: << Did not Nickel Plate Products and Custom Brass (and maybe Rail Works) produce these cars in brass? >> Dont force me to go in that storage locker :-)! I am guessing, but I have two, one I think is Alco or Alpha (?) unpainted and one is PSC painted by the Koreans in a strange shade of purple. The first was a bargain and is on my list of early paint jobs. The second will undergo heavy weathering as long as the color is so bilious anyway. I also (somewhere) have an old Cannonball kit which looks to have nice (though brittle) sides, but the roof was too daunting to attempt. Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:59:48 -0600 Jerry said " Looking for someone to manufacture them in N and HO scales in plastic or resin. That would be even greater!!! ;-)" Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 sounds like its coming soon. That's HO scale, sorry Jerry. Peter Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:19:49 -0500 Listers, Peter wrote: "Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 sounds like its coming soon." Our prayers are answered. I will buy one which will guarantee that it will come out in plastic within 6 months! Which then leads to the predicament of having one very detailed Sunshine car in amongst the plastic ones. Solved by not building the Sunshine car:) Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 19:22:51 +0000 Peter and the List: Is the Sunshine Models R50 going to be plastic, resin, or brass? TIA Ted Andrews Carmel, Ind. >From: Peter Reinhold >Reply-To: "preinhol@unidie.com" >To: "PRR-Talk (E-mail)" >Subject: [PRR] R50 >Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:59:48 -0600 > >Jerry said " >Looking for someone to manufacture them in N and HO scales in plastic or >resin. That would be even greater!!! ;-)" > >Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the >R50 sounds like its coming soon. That's HO scale, sorry Jerry. > > >Peter Reinhold > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 14:23:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] R50 From: Jerry Britton On 11/1/01 9:59 AM, Peter Reinhold (preinhol@unidie.com) wrote: > Looking for someone to manufacture them in N and HO scales in plastic or > resin. That would be even greater!!! ;-)" > > Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 > sounds like its coming soon. That's HO scale, sorry Jerry. > > Sunshine was talking of this model two years ago at the convention. I'm sure it will come, in time. But what about plastic or resin, for the masses? Bethlehem Car Works was also considering an HO R50b at one time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass collectors... http://www.brasstrains.net Free serving of railroad web sites... http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: FW: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:36:45 -0600 > > Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 > sounds like its coming soon. That's HO scale, sorry Jerry. > > Sunshine was talking of this model two years ago at the convention. I'm sure it will come, in time. But what about plastic or resin, for the masses? SunShine Models is resin. Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: RE: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:43:55 -0600 Listers, Peter wrote: "Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 sounds like its coming soon." Our prayers are answered. I will buy one which will guarantee that it will come out in plastic within 6 months! Which then leads to the predicament of having one very detailed Sunshine car in amongst the plastic ones. Solved by not building the Sunshine car:) Chris Chany Chris, I missed the plastic X37's, G27, and G29 some how. VBG. Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:54:03 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] R50 Ted asks: > >Is the Sunshine Models R50 going to be plastic, resin, or brass? Resin for sure. Also, Martin isn't really into the one piece body in the way that Al Westerfield is, so expect it to be a "flat" kit. Chris, I'll be happy to put yours together for you (that's a $75 charge, of course ). Honestly, I LOVE to assemble these kits - I don't find it difficult with the right tools. For all of you with "Westerfear" as Mr. Teichmoeller calls it, you should buy Al's "how to video"...it makes it easy, it only costs about $7 and you can get a rebate when you buy a kit! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] R50 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:22:57 -0500 Pete, Sorry, didn't buy those however I have a nice Sunshine Turtle roof box car kit I'd be willing to sell ya. Chris -----Original Message----- From: Peter Reinhold [mailto:preinhol@unidie.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:44 PM To: PRR-Talk (E-mail) Subject: RE: [PRR] R50 Listers, Peter wrote: "Talking to Martin L. of Sunshine Models at the Naperville PMS meet and the R50 sounds like its coming soon." Our prayers are answered. I will buy one which will guarantee that it will come out in plastic within 6 months! Which then leads to the predicament of having one very detailed Sunshine car in amongst the plastic ones. Solved by not building the Sunshine car:) Chris Chany Chris, I missed the plastic X37's, G27, and G29 some how. VBG. Pete Reinhold ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:39:58 -0500 From: James Stob Subject: Re: [PRR] flood book Hi Dan, The book is indeed rare, and if in excellent condition, can command anywhere from $200 to $500. I have one myself (as well as the '37 flood book published by PRR), and they are both treasured. Go to Alibris, or search our other book appraisers on the internet, and you will find the 1913 flood book to be available from a few retail book dealers for the amounts I mentioned earlier. Best regards, Jim Stob PRRT&HS 6951 Dan Staron wrote: > I'm in need of some help with the following book. A > friend is trying to purchase my extra copy but we are > at odds over the fair market price of this book. > > Since it is a book prepared for the Management of the > Pennsylvania lines west I assume it is somewhat rare. > > Any help on pricing from the list members would help I > don't want to take chances at auction. > > the book is > > Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh: A History of > the Flood of March, 1913. by Garrett, Chas. W. > Pittsburgh, PA: Wm. G. Johnston & Co., c1913, p.257, > illus., cm. > > Any help would be apprecated > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:17:14 -0500 N.J International has made then in brass in Nscale as I have acquired a few recently I suspect the were made in the early 80's. I recently saw one on Ebay. Will try to find the listing Mark Franke ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: Mark Franke ; PRR-Talk LIST ; PRR-n_scale Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B > On 10/31/01 3:06 PM, Mark Franke (mfranke@cox.rr.com) wrote: > > > Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would > > be great > > Looking for someone to manufacture them in N and HO scales in plastic or > resin. That would be even greater!!! ;-) > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list! > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products... > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > For brass collectors... > http://www.brasstrains.net > Free serving of railroad web sites... > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark Franke" Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:29:26 -0500 Does anyone have a copy of the PRRT&HS passenger car book. If so a scan or a zerox of the R50B would be appreciated. The book is out of print and the last one on eBay went for morethan $75.00(ouch) Thanks ahead of time Mark Franke mfranke@cox.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. To: Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] R50B > Mark asked: > >Looking for photos/lettering diagrams for PRR R50 B reefers . Any help would > >be great > > Mark, > > Photos: > PRR color guide I > Pennsy Power III > http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/Foreign/PRR.htm > > Lettering guide: > The PRRT&HS published book on passenger cars (I'm blanking on the title) > > Note that these cars were Tuscan, with "buff" lettering (never gold). > > Sunshine Models has announced that they are producing an R50b in HO scale. > I'm willing to bet that the release will be timed to coincide with the 2002 > PRRT&HS meeting ;^) So, save your pennies, 'cause these will be verrrrrry > nice! > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:56:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Superelevation: Horseshoe Curve. Hello List, Does anyone know what year the PRR lowered the superelevation of the tracks at Horseshoe? Got into a very long discussion about TrucTrains and Horseshoe Curve today. We talked about the problems PRR had with pushing TrucTrains westbound from Altoona and the derailments right on the Curve itself. Somewhere along the way, Pennsy started putting a 40ft boxcar between the cabin car and the last flatcar on piggybacks headed west. Lowering the superelevation is supposed to ease the operation of longer and heavier trains around the Curve. Was it the TrucTrains that forced PRR to lower the banking? I'm also thinking maybe the ore trains from South Philly. This was a new route for ore movements in the mid 1950s. Any help would be appreciated!!! Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ted Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Superelevation: Horseshoe Curve. Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 13:17:44 +0000 Dave and the List: Ore trains would be a reason itself to lower the superelevation. Slow, heavy trains would put more weight on the inside or lower rail. Over time, the rail head would flatten out or "mushroom." When the certain stress thresholds are reached, steel will be plastic and flow albeit slow. Speaking of superelevation, what were the standards on the Pennsy (before and after the 1950's)? When I worked for Conrail in the mid 1980's, the maximum super was 4". I know that the Erie used 6" I think into the EL merger and up to Conrail. To get back to Horseshoe curve, I think that it is plausible that the introduction of new freight car equipment such as 75' flatcars would result in changes in superelevation practices and standards. I think that it was the 89 foot flatcars of the 1960's revealed that derailments of these cars were possible when they crossed over from track to track under certain circumstances. (the turnout "number", the track spacing, the turnout spacing, the speed, etc.) I hope that this helps. It is an interesting topic thread. Ted Andrew Carmel, Indiana -worked for Conrail's M of W - Track Depart.; a "railfan" in more ways than one!! :) >From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Superelevation: Horseshoe Curve. >Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:56:36 -0500 (EST) > > > Hello List, > > Does anyone know what year the PRR lowered the superelevation of >the tracks at Horseshoe? > Got into a very long discussion about TrucTrains and Horseshoe >Curve today. We talked about the problems PRR had with pushing >TrucTrains westbound from Altoona and the derailments right on the Curve >itself. Somewhere along the way, Pennsy started putting a 40ft boxcar >between the cabin car and the last flatcar on piggybacks headed west. > Lowering the superelevation is supposed to >ease the operation of longer and heavier trains around the Curve. Was it >the TrucTrains that forced PRR to lower the banking? > I'm also thinking maybe the ore trains from South Philly. This was >a new route for ore movements in the mid 1950s. > Any help would be appreciated!!! > > Dave Hopson > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: zootowerprr@webtv.net (Dave Hopson PRR/ Penn Central Art) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:44:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Superelevation: Horseshoe Curve. Ted & List, I also belive that the 89ft "lowdeck" flat was a major problem for the PRR at Horseshoe. I don't know what the banking was but 4" sounds right. PRR was also derailing empty auto racks on the tail end of the trains. Penn Central may have lowered the superelevation even more to save maintnance on the rails. I imagine PRR had to make a lot of changes to the trackwork to handle these new freight cars. Maybe the early 1960s, the banking might have been changed at Horseshoe. Someone out there knows. Dave Hopson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 09:56:56 EST From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Superelevation: Horseshoe Curve. My understanding was that the long cars coupled with the short wheelbase of the cabin cars was causing derailments when crossing from one track to the next similar to what us modelers experience when we make an s curve with no straight in between. It was written up in Rails Northeast as a question and answered by several people familiar with the Pittsburgh division as I recall. They started inserting 50' box cars to eliminate the problem. Apparently it was a successful solution. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 12:23:51 EST From: JSZARMACH@aol.com Subject: [PRR] GG1 4909 Update For those of you interested, I just got back from working on the 4909. We spent about 3 days on it and we made some good progress on this trip. We also performed an airbrake test and moved it with a switcher. You can see photos and read about it on the website at: http://www.PJandCompany.com/GG1 Also, I added a couple of additional inside photos (click on "Tour the Inside"). --Joe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] H6 models? Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:17:14 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, everyone, A quick modeling questions - does anyone know if anyone has ever done an H6 in brass in HO? I'm interested in the early version with the square steam chests. TIA George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:07:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] H6 models? George, The earliest H6 available is the H6sa? and H6sb series. Lambert, Railworks and Sunset make these. You may be able to back date one to an H6.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages: Photos, Models, Historical Items and Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s, G5s and T1 WEB PAGES>>> PRR Loco Pics: http://prrsteam.pennsyrr.com & http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/prr_loco_index.html and...... PRR Pics, Memorabilia and Models: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/indexpics.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Cadwell, Marvin L" Subject: RE: [PRR] H6 models? Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 12:42:59 -0600 H6sb has been done in brass by Lambert, Sunset, and Railworks. -----Original Message----- From: george.pierson@trnty.edu [mailto:george.pierson@trnty.edu] Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 11:17 AM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] H6 models? Hi, everyone, A quick modeling questions - does anyone know if anyone has ever done an H6 in brass in HO? I'm interested in the early version with the square steam chests. TIA George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 16:45:14 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Delmarva Lives! I'm sitting here finishing off the afternoon's paperwork and was interrupted by the southbound ESHR freight to Cape Charles. It came through with 2 blue Paducah rebuilt GP-10s, 36 motley 100 ton hoppers including one that used to be Conrail-- freight car red with a logo but the CONRAIL painted out-- and one LP tankcar. The fall grain rush is on with soybeans and corn going to chicken and hog farms in North Carolina I think. Too bad its not an L-1s . . . hope this is PRR enough to please the moderator. Jim McDaniel, wishing for DGLE and Keystones instead of Conrail Blue. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 18:26:58 -0500 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] Open House Anyone heading to Don Richard's Friday nite (7p-11p)? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 04:38:11 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Adoption of electric headlights on PRR Hello list, I was perusing the MR Cyclopedia Vol 1: Steam Locomotives for the upteemth time today. On page 54 there's a nice shot of H9s 3535. According to Edson, she was built in October 1913 by Juniata (making her a late new-built H9s) and scrapped in June 1950. The photo caption in the Cyc says it's a builder's photo. What makes it intriguing is that the engine has a turbogenerator for an electric arc headlight. Most PRR steam didn't get electric lights until after 1920 (K4s engines 3726-3775 being one of the first groups of engines built new with electric headlights). The I1s class built by Baldwin in 1922-23 and the 3800 series K4s engines were among the first built with round cased headlights. When did PRR start experimenting with electric headlights and turbogenerators for them? Is H9s 3535 the first PRR steamer with electric headlights? Thanks in advance! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Adoption of electric headlights on PRR Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:06:57 -0500 Doug:- I don't know the exact dates, but Lines West was using generators and electric headlights at least a decade before the PRR itself. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kisala" To: "PRR talk" Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 7:38 AM Subject: [PRR] Adoption of electric headlights on PRR > Hello list, > > I was perusing the MR Cyclopedia Vol 1: Steam > Locomotives for the upteemth time today. > > On page 54 there's a nice shot of H9s 3535. According > to Edson, she was built in October 1913 by Juniata > (making her a late new-built H9s) and scrapped in June > 1950. The photo caption in the Cyc says it's a > builder's photo. What makes it intriguing is that the > engine has a turbogenerator for an electric arc > headlight. > > Most PRR steam didn't get electric lights until after > 1920 (K4s engines 3726-3775 being one of the first > groups of engines built new with electric headlights). > The I1s class built by Baldwin in 1922-23 and the > 3800 series K4s engines were among the first built > with round cased headlights. > > When did PRR start experimenting with electric > headlights and turbogenerators for them? Is H9s 3535 > the first PRR steamer with electric headlights? > > Thanks in advance! > > Doug > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 06:25:35 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] New York City Hi, I am searching for the number of inhabitans in NYC in 1944 and 2000 for use in my thesis about the PRR and Amtrak. Can someone get these numbers for my since there is no e-mail adress for the City of New York or the NYPD. And calling from Europe to the US would be expensive. Thanks in advance Geoffrey Van Dooren __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian J Carlson" Subject: [PRR] Boswer N5 Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 12:50:01 -0500 Here's a quick question. Somewhere along the way I seem to remember someone saying the PRR N5 cabin car is actually an N5b. Is this correct? Thanks Brian J Carlson Cheektowaga NY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: nuts4prr@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:25:58 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] Stuff for sale. Listers, I have the some PRR items for sale. I would rather send them direct to PRR people rather than through eBay. So if anyone is interested please contact me off line. nuts4prr@aol.com Hi Country Brass N5 Cabin Car x 5 @ $70 ALCo N5b Cabin Car x 2 @ $60 ALCo N5c Cabin Car x 2 @ $60 ALCo N6b Cabin Car x 1 @ $60 ALCo N8 Cabin Car x 3 @ $60 ALCo BP20 a&b $250 Westside Model Co. Q2 $450 Plus Postage at cost. Graeme Nitz An Aussie SPF Now Living in Tulsa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. To unsubscribe, simply send a blank email to = PRR-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRR5499@att.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Boswer N5 Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 21:33:02 +0000 The N-5b had a cushion underframe,which the N-5 did not. N-5s were built starting 1914,the N-5bs in 1941. Also most if not all of the N-5s were built without "crash-beams",which were added later. Windows and hand-rails also differed. Ed Case > Here's a quick question. Somewhere along the way I seem to remember someone > saying the PRR N5 cabin car is actually an N5b. Is this correct? > Thanks > > Brian J Carlson > Cheektowaga NY > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with this list, please visit http://lists.dsop.com. !!NEXT MESSAGE!!