Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 00:14:09 -0500 From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? --On 10/31/2000 02:39:27 PM -0800 "Matthew J. Brown" wrote: > What would members of the list consider the essential books the serious > PRR fan should own? I'm fairly new at all this, and there are a LOT of > books out there. I'm interested in the period 1940-1960 in particular, > and from both a general historical standpoint and a modelling one. > > What books should I definitely own? What books should I avoid, also? There's a discussion of this in the list archive if you want to see what answers were given probably a year or two ago. Also, Rob's site (prr.railfan.net) should have a nice bibliography if you want to check that out. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 01:35:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Genesis F units Ted, I supplied the color chips to Athearn for the Dark Green Locomotive paint PRR Shade, (damn can't I just say Brunswick Green?) and the Buff for the lettering. I think they were shocked with how dark the Brunswick Green really was. They have done their homework. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 05:35:15 -0500 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? I would have to agree that Don Ball's book is the number one must-have volume. To the list I would add Pennsy Power I and II by Al Stauffer, with text by Bert Pennypacker. These two books are just plain superb. While others may disagree, I'm not sure that Pennsy Power III would make it to a must-have PRR book list. It is not as polished as Pennsy Power I and II; Pennsy Power III is more of a miscellaneous picture book, with ho-hum supporting text. JONS6755@aol.com wrote: > Matt > I would have to say of all the PRR books out there (and there are many !!) > If I > had to pick one it would be The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940s-1950s by the late > Don Ball Jr. published by Elm Tree Books. A must have ! ! ! > Jon S. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 06:12:30 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? Matt, The essential questions seems to be how big are your bookshelves and how deep are your pockets. :) When I get questions at the PRRT&HS website, these are among the first books I turn to: 1. The 3 Pennsy Power books by Alvin Staufer - THE guides to motive power 2. The Don Ball Jr. book The Pennsylvania Railroad-1940's and 1950's - the best (IMHO) single overall color pictorial PRR book 3. Morning Sun books PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment (Vols. 1 & 2) - for your modeling 4. As many PRRT&HS National publication "Keystones" (quarterly) and PRRT&HS Phila. Chapter Highlines (annual) as needed Then we get into the pure enjoyment books, mainly pictorial, which gives flavor to the PRR. You have to pick and choose as to your needs: 1. Crossroads of Commerce by Dan Cupper; the definitive book on the Grif Teller and the PRR calendars. On second thought, this should be considered an essential book! 2. The various Morning Sun books from Bob Yanosey, David Sweetland, William Volkmer, Jeremy Plant and Ian Fischer (along with others) 3. The new Four Ways West PRR books by David Sweetland 4. Eric Hirsimaki's book Black Gold-Black Diamonds; Vols 1 & 2 There are many others including Welsh's Pennsy Streamliner's: Blue Ribbon Fleet (PRR passenger trains), Schaefer and Solomon's's Pennsylvania RR and Withers & Zak's Pennsy Electric Pictorial. Best, Bill Morlitz, PRRT&HS Website Superintendent ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:17:09 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? Hi all, encouraged by supporting motions from this list, I purchased Don Balls book here in Germany albeit the price was substantial (ca. 110,- DM). Wow, I did not regret the expense! The photos are superb in quality and they convey a feeling I never was able or will be able to experience in real life, as I was just a child in that days in Germany... Thanks again to all those who praised the book to convince me to buy it! Burkhard Sanner Germany P.S.: Another book I like (for the b+w photos) is Kalmbachs PRR.book in the Golden Years of Railroading series. DDembinski schrieb: > I would have to agree that Don Ball's book is the number one must-have volume. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] G26 and G26a information Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 06:13:52 -0500 Gentleman, I sent this message on Monday, but the server returned it to me because of a wording problem. So I am sending it again. I apologize if some of you received previously. I am in need of any information that you may have on G26 and G26a gondolas for an upcoming brass model project. I have a few Builders photos and 1 General Arrangement drawing. However, I need more, especially end details. Was the Ratcheting brake mechanism and the Ajax built concurrently? Does anyone know if there is still a G26 surviving? Do you have a photo of a G26 in Shadow Keystone? Any information that you have would be most appreciated. You will be compensated for your efforts. Thank You Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Don LaPlante Subject: [PRR] BACK ISSUES OF KEYSTONE MAG. Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:14:21 -0500 I HAVE BACK ISSUES OF KEYSTONE MAGAZINES VOL. 1 NO. 1 THRU VOL 19 NO.4. I AM MISSING VOL.'S 5 & 7. I WOULD LIKE TO SELL THESE OR TRADE FOR TWO LIFELIKE PENNSY E8'S IN TUSCAN. THESE ARE ONE OWNER, READ ONCE AND STORED IN A MILDEW FREE AREA. IF INTERESTED CONTACT ME AT DLAPLANTE@SIGTECH.COM ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:39:16 EST From: Prr1187@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? I am fond of the older era, and one of my essential books: On The Main Line by Alexander. Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS 1974 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" Subject: [PRR] LL undecorated warning Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:09:59 -0600 Hello all, Sorry about the multiple posts but I am not sure how many people knew this. While working on a Life Like Proto 2000 undecorated SD60 I had fully detailed the unit. Painted it up for the first coat. On the second coat the color came out totally wrong so I stripped it in isopropyl alcohol. When stripping the unit (undecorated mind you) the black paint on the engine was not the only thing to come off, there is also a gray base coat applied by LL. Because the engine was totally detailed and glued together I was unable to salvage the shell and such. I had to spend $37 to get back all the details lost on the previous engine. So consider this a word of warning, when working with LL undecorated units they are not totally undecorated, learn from my expensive mistake. By the way when on the phone with Life Like to order the replacement stuff I let them know that they should put a label on the undecorated units or something about this so as not to expensively surprise anyone. I do have 2 other undecorated models in my possession, fortunately I have not started to detail these as of yet, one is in the alcohol right now stripping. Thanks for you ears, or should I say eyes. Jeremy Helms Bellevue, Nebraska ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:25:07 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? Matt, I always enjoy seeing what Bill offers up on questions like this as I always agree with him... So let me add to his list of "must haves" by adding the entire selection printed todate from Withers Publications on the PRR Locomotive vol.1 through 5. And I see that Dan is quiet, all that I would expect from such a modest man. These book are informative and capture the Pennsy some of the best Pennsy photography of the times, John D. Hahn needs special recognition by all Pennsy Fans. I only wish Paul could contact J.J.Young,Jr. and do similar a series with his photography, I would feel like I was dying and going to heaven. I can't wait until Paul and Dan put together the F-Unit series. This workhorse was as essential to the times as the Sherman tank was to General Patton... A favorite subject of mine as well an ongoing research project that I hope never ends. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:00:14 -0500 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning Jeremy, Had the same experience with an undec GP7. Painted it screwed it up and used Easy Lift Off only to discover a "primer" coat on the plastic. I was able to salvage to body and attached detail parts, but it did take some care and patience. Tom Mahon Jeremy & Soni Helms wrote: > Hello all, > > Sorry about the multiple posts but I am not sure how many people knew this. > While working on a Life Like Proto 2000 undecorated SD60 I had fully > detailed the unit. Painted it up for the first coat. On the second coat > the color came out totally wrong so I stripped it in isopropyl alcohol. > When stripping the unit (undecorated mind you) the black paint on the engine > was not the only thing to come off, there is also a gray base coat applied > by LL. Because the engine was totally detailed and glued together I was > unable to salvage the shell and such. I had to spend $37 to get back all > the details lost on the previous engine. So consider this a word of > warning, when working with LL undecorated units they are not totally > undecorated, learn from my expensive mistake. By the way when on the phone > with Life Like to order the replacement stuff I let them know that they > should put a label on the undecorated units or something about this so as > not to expensively surprise anyone. I do have 2 other undecorated models in > my possession, fortunately I have not started to detail these as of yet, one > is in the alcohol right now stripping. > > Thanks for you ears, or should I say eyes. > > Jeremy Helms > Bellevue, Nebraska > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:54:34 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS BoD Meeting Thank you for all of the input to my original request for concerns to be aired at the PRRT&HS Nov. BoD meeting. I have printed out 30 sets of comments and comments to comments, some of which were sent to me directly others sent to the various lists from whence I solicited input. I have also answered most all of you directly. The comments centered primarily around three issues - reproducing the "The Keystone" on CDs, "The Keystone" reprints and the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. 1. "The Keystone" on CDs - During the May 2000 BoD meeting a test run of "The Keystone" on CDs was approved in principle. I'm sure this will be discussed again and we will get an update. 2. Reprinting the "The Keystone" - This is another project that was previously approved and in fact has begun. A limited run of the 1973 edition (Vol. 6, Nrs. 1-4) has been reproduced and is for sale from Dick Adams. See the Autumn 2000 edition specifically "The Interchange" inside back cover for details. The success of this project will no doubt be discussed as will any plans for future releases. 3. As most of you probably already know the biggest single item mentioned was the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. This has been an issue almost since day one when the society took ownership of the building with people on both sides of the fence. Although grouped together and interrelated they are two different issues - The Building and The Archives. For example, in a simplistic listing of alternatives if we keep the archives we need a building, if we don't keep the archives we don't really need a building. I have my own opinions which I will offer at the meeting. However, I am not going to offer any comments on this subject here other than what I have already stated. There was a fourth issue expressed by only a few people but an important one, perhaps the most important of all. At the present time I would say the society essentially serves four markets. Former PRR employes, railroad historians, railfans, and railroad modelers. (Obviously some people like myself fall into all categories or at least a multiple). In the future those of us who served with the PRR will be gone, so one market will disappear. I would venture to say that the true rail historian is a relatively small market, which leaves us with the railfan and the railroad modeler. Concern was expressed that with the lack of information available from the society specifically addressing subjects related to or applicable to modeling (i.e., articles on locomotives, rolling stock, structures, signals, right-of-way standards, painting and lettering standards, etc.) that market will fall off to the detriment of the society. Realize, however, that the articles come from the membership not an editorial staff (which in reality is one person). So regardless of the eagerness of the leadership to help fill that perceived void it is the membership itself that brings it to fruition. Thanx. Al -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/17/_/586931/_/973130359/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] PRRT&HS BoD Meeting Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:54:34 -0500 Thank you for all of the input to my original request for concerns to be aired at the PRRT&HS Nov. BoD meeting. I have printed out 30 sets of comments and comments to comments, some of which were sent to me directly others sent to the various lists from whence I solicited input. I have also answered most all of you directly. The comments centered primarily around three issues - reproducing the "The Keystone" on CDs, "The Keystone" reprints and the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. 1. "The Keystone" on CDs - During the May 2000 BoD meeting a test run of "The Keystone" on CDs was approved in principle. I'm sure this will be discussed again and we will get an update. 2. Reprinting the "The Keystone" - This is another project that was previously approved and in fact has begun. A limited run of the 1973 edition (Vol. 6, Nrs. 1-4) has been reproduced and is for sale from Dick Adams. See the Autumn 2000 edition specifically "The Interchange" inside back cover for details. The success of this project will no doubt be discussed as will any plans for future releases. 3. As most of you probably already know the biggest single item mentioned was the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. This has been an issue almost since day one when the society took ownership of the building with people on both sides of the fence. Although grouped together and interrelated they are two different issues - The Building and The Archives. For example, in a simplistic listing of alternatives if we keep the archives we need a building, if we don't keep the archives we don't really need a building. I have my own opinions which I will offer at the meeting. However, I am not going to offer any comments on this subject here other than what I have already stated. There was a fourth issue expressed by only a few people but an important one, perhaps the most important of all. At the present time I would say the society essentially serves four markets. Former PRR employes, railroad historians, railfans, and railroad modelers. (Obviously some people like myself fall into all categories or at least a multiple). In the future those of us who served with the PRR will be gone, so one market will disappear. I would venture to say that the true rail historian is a relatively small market, which leaves us with the railfan and the railroad modeler. Concern was expressed that with the lack of information available from the society specifically addressing subjects related to or applicable to modeling (i.e., articles on locomotives, rolling stock, structures, signals, right-of-way standards, painting and lettering standards, etc.) that market will fall off to the detriment of the society. Realize, however, that the articles come from the membership not an editorial staff (which in reality is one person). So regardless of the eagerness of the leadership to help fill that perceived void it is the membership itself that brings it to fruition. Thanx. Al ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS BoD Meeting Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:54:34 -0500 Thank you for all of the input to my original request for concerns to be aired at the PRRT&HS Nov. BoD meeting. I have printed out 30 sets of comments and comments to comments, some of which were sent to me directly others sent to the various lists from whence I solicited input. I have also answered most all of you directly. The comments centered primarily around three issues - reproducing the "The Keystone" on CDs, "The Keystone" reprints and the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. 1. "The Keystone" on CDs - During the May 2000 BoD meeting a test run of "The Keystone" on CDs was approved in principle. I'm sure this will be discussed again and we will get an update. 2. Reprinting the "The Keystone" - This is another project that was previously approved and in fact has begun. A limited run of the 1973 edition (Vol. 6, Nrs. 1-4) has been reproduced and is for sale from Dick Adams. See the Autumn 2000 edition specifically "The Interchange" inside back cover for details. The success of this project will no doubt be discussed as will any plans for future releases. 3. As most of you probably already know the biggest single item mentioned was the management of the Lewistown Station and archives. This has been an issue almost since day one when the society took ownership of the building with people on both sides of the fence. Although grouped together and interrelated they are two different issues - The Building and The Archives. For example, in a simplistic listing of alternatives if we keep the archives we need a building, if we don't keep the archives we don't really need a building. I have my own opinions which I will offer at the meeting. However, I am not going to offer any comments on this subject here other than what I have already stated. There was a fourth issue expressed by only a few people but an important one, perhaps the most important of all. At the present time I would say the society essentially serves four markets. Former PRR employes, railroad historians, railfans, and railroad modelers. (Obviously some people like myself fall into all categories or at least a multiple). In the future those of us who served with the PRR will be gone, so one market will disappear. I would venture to say that the true rail historian is a relatively small market, which leaves us with the railfan and the railroad modeler. Concern was expressed that with the lack of information available from the society specifically addressing subjects related to or applicable to modeling (i.e., articles on locomotives, rolling stock, structures, signals, right-of-way standards, painting and lettering standards, etc.) that market will fall off to the detriment of the society. Realize, however, that the articles come from the membership not an editorial staff (which in reality is one person). So regardless of the eagerness of the leadership to help fill that perceived void it is the membership itself that brings it to fruition. Thanx. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 20:10:52 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning From: "William J. Ayers" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3055954253_319324_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy, et al, I have LL P2K E-8s in Tuscan and the first run GP7 which appears to be black. I have toyed with the idea of repainting them in DGLE. In light of your expensive surprise, do you have any experience or advice in repainting them? Some time ago, I striped and repainted two Atlas Classic GP7s (originally NKP dress) and was unable to remove all the factory paint. At the time I didn't know who to ask other than Marty McGuirk at MR who said that Chinese factory paint seems to behave differently than what we are used to, and said to remove as much as possible and paint as usual, which I did. So far, the paint (Scalecoat 2) is holding up well with no problems. Bill Ayers Lake City, IA > Hello all, > > Sorry about the multiple posts but I am not sure how many people knew this. > While working on a Life Like Proto 2000 undecorated SD60 I had fully > detailed the unit. Painted it up for the first coat. On the second coat > the color came out totally wrong so I stripped it in isopropyl alcohol. > When stripping the unit (undecorated mind you) the black paint on the engine > was not the only thing to come off, there is also a gray base coat applied > by LL. Because the engine was totally detailed and glued together I was > unable to salvage the shell and such. I had to spend $37 to get back all > the details lost on the previous engine. So consider this a word of > warning, when working with LL undecorated units they are not totally > undecorated, learn from my expensive mistake. By the way when on the phone > with Life Like to order the replacement stuff I let them know that they > should put a label on the undecorated units or something about this so as > not to expensively surprise anyone. I do have 2 other undecorated models in > my possession, fortunately I have not started to detail these as of yet, one > is in the alcohol right now stripping. > > Thanks for you ears, or should I say eyes. > > Jeremy Helms > Bellevue, Nebraska > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > --MS_Mac_OE_3055954253_319324_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning Jeremy, et al,

I have LL P2K E-8s in Tuscan and the first run GP7 which appears to be
black. I have toyed with the idea of repainting them in DGLE. In light of your expensive surprise, do you have any experience or advice in repainting=
them? Some time ago, I striped and repainted two Atlas Classic GP7s
(originally NKP dress) and was unable to remove all the factory paint. At the time I didn't know who to ask other than Marty McGuirk at MR who said that Chinese factory paint seems to behave differently than what we are use= d
to, and said to remove as much as possible and paint as usual, which I did.=
So far, the paint (Scalecoat 2) is holding up well with no problems.

Bill Ayers
Lake City, IA


> Hello all,
>
> Sorry about the multiple posts but I am not sure how many people knew = this.
> While working on a Life Like Proto 2000 undecorated SD60 I had fully > detailed the unit.  Painted it up for the first coat.  On th= e second coat
> the color came out totally wrong so I stripped it in isopropyl alcohol= .
> When stripping the unit (undecorated mind you) the black paint on the = engine
> was not the only thing to come off, there is also a gray base coat app= lied
> by LL.  Because the engine was totally detailed and glued togethe= r I was
> unable to salvage the shell and such.  I had to spend $37 to get = back all
> the details lost on the previous engine.  So consider this a word= of
> warning, when working with LL undecorated units they are not totally > undecorated, learn from my expensive mistake.  By the way when on= the phone
> with Life Like to order the replacement stuff I let them know that the= y
> should put a label on the undecorated units or something about this so= as
> not to expensively surprise anyone.  I do have 2 other undecorate= d models in
> my possession, fortunately I have not started to detail these as of ye= t, one
> is in the alcohol right now stripping.
>
> Thanks for you ears, or should I say eyes.
>
> Jeremy Helms
> Bellevue, Nebraska
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -
> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.htm= l.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -
> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message &q= uot;help" to
> "listserv@dsop.com".
>

 --MS_Mac_OE_3055954253_319324_MIME_Part-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:29:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning Bill, Jeremy, You may find that using a hobby blasting booth may do the trick to remove the paint from Proto shells. I have used one on other plastic items and with good results. (Experiment at low presure is a good idea!!!) It took me 18 years to get myelf to purchase one and am glad I did. (eBay purchase last year). Stripping has become quick and easy. I know everyone will not have access to one but serious hobbiest should look into purchasing a booth. ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Fw: [PM-list] Leslie and Nathan horns Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:45:09 -0500 Several weeks back someone asked about types of air horns used on early diesels. This is an exceptional web site with close up photos, front, side and rear of countless airhorns. Indispensable information to the diesel modeler. Cool audio clips too. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Pavlovic" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [PM-list] Leslie and Nathan horns > Brian, > Try this website, they have picture of just about every horn ever manufactured, along with some of the variations that you may find. > > Ed Pavlovic > > http://ATSF.Railfan.net/airhorns/ > > Brian Banna~ wrote: > > > I was discussing with some fellow modelers the type of horn I need > > to use. The subject of Leslie horns and Nathan horns came up. I > > do not know the visual differences between them and would like to > > be educated. > > > > I started thinking about it and recall some horn clusters have long > > chimes and others have shorter chimes. What I mean is the chimes are > > physically longer than each other. A Leslie long horn is longer than > > a Nathan long horn or is it the other way around? Maybe the differences > > are something else, but I do not know. > > > > Later > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Brian Banna > > bbanna@sedona.ch.intel.com > > Chandler, AZ > > > Community email addresses: > Post message: PROTOTYPEmodeler@egroups.com > Subscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-subscribe@egroups.com > Unsubscribe: PROTOTYPEmodeler-unsubscribe@egroups.com > List owner: PROTOTYPEmodeler-owner@egroups.com > View pictures of list members at: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=6787243 > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/PROTOTYPEmodeler > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 22:32:17 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > Matt, > > I always enjoy seeing what Bill offers up on questions like this as I always > agree with him... > > So let me add to his list of "must haves" by adding the entire selection > printed todate from Withers Publications on the PRR Locomotive vol.1 through > 5. And I see that Dan is quiet, all that I would expect from such a modest > man. These book are informative and capture the Pennsy some of the best > Pennsy photography of the times, John D. Hahn needs special recognition by > all Pennsy Fans. I only wish Paul could contact J.J.Young,Jr. and do similar > a series with his photography, I would feel like I was dying and going to > heaven. I can't wait until Paul and Dan put together the F-Unit series. This > workhorse was as essential to the times as the Sherman tank was to General > Patton... A favorite subject of mine as well an ongoing research project that > I hope never ends. > > Greg Martin Thanks Greg. I completely forgot the Withers books (except for one) and couldn't agree more with including them. Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:15:34 -0500 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? Other helpful books that I haven't seen mentioned are the Carleton Pennsy Steam books and the PRRT&HS Passenger Painting and Lettering book. Bob Reid did some paperback books with rolling stock diagrams and NEC track charts. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:50:15 -0600 Bill, It has been my experience thus far that Isopropyl alcohol is far superior to any CHEMICAL strippers out there. My suggestion is to use 91% or higher. The 91% is available just about anywhere with the "higher" being available mainly at specialist drug stores like Kroger's or Walgreens. I have tried to use Scalecoat, brake fluid, Pine Sol and alcohol. The alcohol does the work. It has worked on newer Atlas, Kato, and Life Like predecorated units. Some have reported some problems with early release Atlas and Kato units. FYI the Kato units have stripped down to bare plastic without paint residue even left. I have been suprised. My suggestions for "stripping" tools if you can call them that would be a adult SOFT bristle toothbrush, toothpicks and straight pins. The straight pins are for very small crannies like door seams or door handles. The toothpick is good for larger door handles and weld seems. With the toothbrush I have had sme problems with anything harder than a soft bristle brush. It seems to scratch the surface some which is visible under very dark paints like DGLE and black. Also my brushes that I use are ones that are broken in (for those of you that do not get this I mean I used it to brush my teeth for 6 months to a year). This way I actually get at least one new tool for myself a year <>. Windows need to be removed prior to stripping. If glued in pull them out and purchase a replacement set OR get a laser cut set from AMB or something. Soak model (LL P2K) for 30 minutes and scrub with toothbrush. Do this 2 times and then clean up with other "tools" around details. If it is not totally gone, reaccomplish this set over. All models I have done in the alcohol have been in overnight before (I am talking LL and Kato) with no ill effects. Jeremy Helms > Jeremy, et al, > > I have LL P2K E-8s in Tuscan and the first run GP7 which appears to be > black. I have toyed with the idea of repainting them in DGLE. In light of > your expensive surprise, do you have any experience or advice in repainting > them? Some time ago, I striped and repainted two Atlas Classic GP7s > (originally NKP dress) and was unable to remove all the factory paint. At > the time I didn't know who to ask other than Marty McGuirk at MR who said > that Chinese factory paint seems to behave differently than what we are used > to, and said to remove as much as possible and paint as usual, which I did. > So far, the paint (Scalecoat 2) is holding up well with no problems. > > Bill Ayers > Lake City, IA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Knorek" Subject: Re: [PRR] Essential books? Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:02:26 -0500 Since I am much more interested in the aesthetics of railroading than locomotive numbers and all that, my vote goes to _Crossroads of Commerce_. JK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 05:22:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Essential Books Some more suggestions: Centennial History (Burgess & Kennedy) -- Pennsy's view of its history Electric Traction on the Pennsylvania Railroad 1895-1968 (Bezilla) -- definitive history of the electrification And some specialized ones (if you're interested in a particular line)... Cumberland Valley Railroad (Westhaeffer) The Story of the Northern Central Railway (Gunnarsson) --Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:30:44 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Our 4th Anniversary! From: Jerry Britton It's November 2000... four years ago this month "Keystone Crossings" and "PRR-Talk" were established!!! Today, "Keystone Crossings" serves well over 6,000 pages per month, has over 40,000 records in its databases, and offers over 500MB of files! "PRR-Talk" has over 450 subscribers and a searchable archive of over 18,000 messages -- and the archive doesn't even include the first year's worth! Thank you all for making both a resounding success! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:33:28 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning From: "William J. Ayers" Jeremy, Gary, Thanks for the striping and repainting ideas. The hobby blasting booth sounds like a good efficient method, but right now, the Isopropyl alcohol is more within my budget. Maybe some day I will get one.... Bill > It has been my experience thus far that Isopropyl alcohol is far superior to > any CHEMICAL strippers out there. My suggestion is to use 91% or higher. > The 91% is available just about anywhere with the "higher" being available > mainly at specialist drug stores like Kroger's or Walgreens. I have tried > to use Scalecoat, brake fluid, Pine Sol and alcohol. The alcohol does the > work. > You may find that using a hobby blasting booth may do the trick to > remove the paint from Proto shells. I have used one on other plastic > items and with good results. (Experiment at low presure is a good > idea!!!) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:21:53 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Our 4th Anniversary! And don't forget to thank the Pennsylvania RR. I doubt that a website and mailing list for the St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR (or the NYC for that matter) could have done this well ;-) And, oh yes, thank you Jerry. I know it has never been easy and it has not always been fun, but you have brought a valuable resource to 450 grateful subscribers and 6000 monthly visitors! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > It's November 2000... four years ago this month "Keystone Crossings" and > "PRR-Talk" were established!!! > > Today, "Keystone Crossings" serves well over 6,000 pages per month, has over > 40,000 records in its databases, and offers over 500MB of files! > > "PRR-Talk" has over 450 subscribers and a searchable archive of over 18,000 > messages -- and the archive doesn't even include the first year's worth! > > Thank you all for making both a resounding success! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:10:38 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] LL undecorated warning --part1_39.c2d5553.2733162e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The hobby blasting booth sounds like a good efficient method, I used to have access to an industrial glass beadin booth and the only caution I would suggest is that with plastic you should take your time. there can be quite a heat build up that can distort some of the smaller parts. --part1_39.c2d5553.2733162e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The hobby blasting booth
sounds like a good efficient method,

I used to have access to an industrial glass beadin booth and the only
caution I would suggest is that with plastic you should take your time.  
there can be quite a heat build up that can distort some of the smaller parts.
 --part1_39.c2d5553.2733162e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:21:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Our 4th Anniversary! From: Jerry Britton On 11/2/00 2:21 PM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > And don't forget to thank the Pennsylvania RR. I doubt that a website > and mailing list for the St. Johnsbury & Lamoille County RR (or the NYC > for that matter) could have done this well ;-) Announcing the "St.Johnsbury&LamoilleCountyRR-Talk" list... just kidding! True, only a grand-daddy of a railroad would warrant this much excitement! > > And, oh yes, thank you Jerry. I know it has never been easy and it has > not always been fun, but you have brought a valuable resource to 450 > grateful subscribers and 6000 monthly visitors! > You're welcome! And "most" users understand when there is down time, and I appreciate that! It's kinda nice when one can combine hobbies, as I have. (Okay, they're not hobbies, they're addictions!) And thank you, Andy, as one of our early subscribers and one of our resident "passenger car experts". It's active subscribers that make this work for all of us, each sharing a specialty. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:13:04 EST Subject: [PRR] N5c Questions Questions from an "off lister" who I talked into an MTH "O" scale N5c caboose, a really nice plastic model, which he is 2 railing: 1) were the platforms wood planked? 2) what color, if any was planking, if present, painted 3) were the "collision posts" a standard structural shape 4) what was the size (we both think the MTH are a tad small) Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:31:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] N5c Questions Dick, I believe, and I am referring to a Conrail N5c fro a local historical Society, that no wood planking was present on the platform. Maybe when built? The Conrail N5c has steel grate tread. Most likely painted Freight Car color as well. The Steel Collision Beams on the MTH N5C should be replaced. Looks nothing like the real thing. The real post were U Channel. Interesting is that on the N5c, the Channel was faced one way and on the N8 the Channel was reversed. Off hand I can't remember which is which. I have to dig up the info if you need it. I also have 2 of the MTH N5C's and a few of the N8's. I changed over to Scale wheelsets but have yet to convert anything else. A big mistake was done on the N8 Antenna system. The possition is reversed on the model. How could they mess something like that up!!! Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Our 4th Anniversary! Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:56:15 -0500 Congratulations Jerry! Many more years to come too, I'm sure. Cos > It's November 2000... four years ago this month "Keystone Crossings" and > "PRR-Talk" were established!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:07:13 EST Subject: [PRR] Items for sale I have been asked to handle the sale of the following scale items for a friend who is involved with tinplate. I have quoted Walthers 1998 prices where available as a guide, I'm not expecting interested parties to match those prices listed, but most successful offers will be within 75-80% of the prices listed. Shipping is the responsibility of the purchaser. Offers will be handled on the basis of email date and time. First come first served. 95% of the items are still shrink wrapped, all are new in the box. Reply off list for any items of interest. Manufacturer Kit No. Guideline Price Magnuson Wischer Washer Co M523 75.00 Allen's Wrench & Mfg Co M528 75.00 Jordan Products Baggage Wagon 360-301 3.95 1926 Essex Coach 360-222 4.95 Stewart Diesel Sand,Fuel&Water Col #703 21.95 Woodland Senics Tommy's Treehouse M107 8.49 Ernie's Fruit Stand M109 7.99 Tombstones D201 4.99 Micro Engineering Groger's Grocery 70-604 11.50 Model Power Farm House #433 16.98 Grandma's House #487 16.98 Patal Church #3060 14.99 Con Cor Ma's Place #9051 11.70 California Model Co Interlocking Tower & Shed #61 12.75 DMK Fuel Oil Distributorship KH102 6.99 Walthers Don's Shoe Store 933-3000 11.98 Farmers Co-op Elevator 933-3036 24.98 Interstate Fuel & Oil 933-3006 25.98 Central Valley Fencing #1601 5.49 Pikestuff Tool & Handcar Shed #0006 2.95 Smalltown USA Madeline's Deli #6004 7.75 Helen's Country Kitchen #6012 7.75 Appliance Mart #6020 10.20 Old Indian Tobacco Shop #6014 7.75 Furniture Showroom #6015 10.70 Sally's Antiques #6010 7.75 Design Preservation Skip's Chicken & Ribs #105 8.98 Carol's Corner Cafe' #113 9.98 Carr's Parts #116 9.98 Seymour Building #121 10.98 Front St Bldg #120 9.98 Roberts Dry Goods #102 8.98 Kelly's Saloon #101 8.98 Other Corner Cafe #115 9.98 Freight Depot #107 9.98 Shultz's Garage #201 8.98 Walker Bldg #204 9.98 Laube's Linen Mill #106 9.98 C Smith Packing #203 9.98 City Cab Co #112 9.98 Cuttings Scissors Co #103 9.98 B Moore Catalog Showroom #104 9.98 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeremy & Soni Helms" Subject: [PRR] Painting Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 00:33:11 -0600 Hello all, I am trying to find painting data. I am attempting a PRR GP30 with trainphone antenna right now. How were these painted? I know the body was DGLE and the trucks and underframe/fuel tank were black. Where I am wondering about is the pilot faces, steps and walkway, were any or all of these black or DGLE? Thanks for any help on this one. Jeremy Helms Bellevue, Nebraska ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] National B Trucks Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 06:33:39 -0500 Hi All, I am in need of drawings and photos of National "B" trucks for a brass project. You will be compensated for your efforts. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 06:33:39 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] National B Trucks Hi All, I am in need of drawings and photos of National "B" trucks for a brass project. You will be compensated for your efforts. Any help would be most appreciated. Thank You Bill -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/17/_/586931/_/973254103/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sam cali" Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:44:58 GMT >From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:22:47 -0500 (EST) > > Hello, Anyone have track chart for the line West of Quarryville. Found >a person with a small reservoir and granite works building on there >property just above the line.It's classic PRR design. I'm thinking it >supplied standpipes. It is located about 4 miles west of Smithville.Also >were helpers needed anywhere along the A&S ? >רררררררררThax-Mark >Lרררררררררררר Mark, Are you referring to a building that would house a pump for a water station? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 06:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A matter of spelling Some while ago, someone commented on seeing, in a PRR document, the word "employe". I don't recall all that followed, but there seemed to be a flavor of "PRR even had it's own standard for spelling". A couple of days ago I was reading an Erie RR rule book from 1908. Surprise! The Erie had employes, and many rules telling each employe what his duties were. Turned to a B&O rule book from 1913. Same story. So, it wasn't just PRR. Went to an online 1913 dictionary. There, found "employe" defined as someone who does the bidding of another, "employee" defined as a variant of employe. The dictionary used an accent on the final "e", and that means the final "e" was to be pronounced. None of the RR books used an accent, but I suspect that that may have been to make life easier for the typesetter, not to indicate that the "e" was silent. Looked in the 1975 dictionary on my desk and found a definition for "employee or employe". (My 4th grade reading teacher told me that in a dictionary, whatever comes first is the preferred form.) So, I'm sure that "employe" was not peculiar to RR's. Apparently our grandparents thought "employe" was the correct spelling, and probably viewed "employee" as another sign that the educational system was going to the dogs. Sure enough, the education system went there, and we grew up writing "employee". That does not rule out the possibility that the older spelling hung on longer at the PRR than in other places, or was used longer by railroads than other enterprises. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 09:27:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A matter of spelling From: Jerry Britton On 11/3/00 9:15 AM, robert netzlof (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: > Some while ago, someone commented on seeing, in a PRR > document, the word "employe". I don't recall all that > followed, but there seemed to be a flavor of "PRR even > had it's own standard for spelling". > My wife worked for GM from 1987 to 1992. We still receive 401K reports. To this day, GM uses "employe". --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 10:38:37 EST From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRRH&TS As I understand it, the fireproof vaults etc. have been installed at Lewistown. It would seem to be that a working arrangement with the PA Historical and Museum Commission via the Strassburg Museum would be best for all. The PRRT&HS can exchange use of the Lewistown Station for professional archivists time. The Lewistown Station would become a satelite site for Strassburg. The agreement could allow com-mingling of the collections and the PRR material at Strassburg moved to Lewistown to consolidate all the PRR material. There is a need to involve politicians -- particular the State Representative and Senator who represent Lewistown in this matter. Further, grants are available for Pennsylvania through the Commission for maintaining such collections. But someone with an indepth knowledge of the collection needs to make the application. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:52:10 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. Mark wrote: > Hello, Anyone have track chart for the line West of Quarryville. Found >a person with a small reservoir and granite works building on there >property just above the line.It's classic PRR design. I'm thinking it >supplied standpipes. It is located about 4 miles west of Smithville.Also >were helpers needed anywhere along the A&S ? Hi Mark, I think I was contacted by the same folks, and it sure sounds like they have an interesting "artifact" on their property. Track charts of the A&S are available on Jerry's site (circa 1945) at: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/maps/downloads/tc_phil_1945.pdf I was unable to find any standpipe section marked in the area around Smithville to Martic Forge, but then maybe I don't know what I'm looking for! Note that if the standpipes were retained after electrification, the catenary was usually raised to reduce the safety hazard, and the section was marked "Standpipe" and "High Wire". Since SMITH represents the only "passing" siding on the A&S between Atglen and Columbia, and it is approximately halfway between these two, it would be a logical place for standpipes to have been placed. It is likely that these were removed during electrification. Helpers were commonly used on the A&S eastbound out of Columbia and both east and westbound out of Thorndale. Prior to electrification, Columbia maintained a reasonable sized locomotive service facility and crews were based there. Following electrification, P-5a motors were usually used as helpers, and one or more could be found in Columbia, waiting to shove trains up out of the Susquehanna River valley. The FF-2 motors (ex GN Y-1) were also used in this service during their brief tenure on the PRR. Photos of this activity abound. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:07:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. Mark, Bruce, Interesting story on this resivour. This has nothing to do with your thread but there is one located in the town of Homewood Jct, Pa. as well. I always seen a large pond there and one day my buddy told me what it was. Seems the resivour (PRR Built) supplied the Loco Stand pipes that were located roughout the Wye. Homewood Jct. was the point where the Ft Wayne Main continued west and the Kopple Secondary to Sharon Pa. branched off. (34 miles west of Pittsburgh). After the water plugs were taken out of service the resivour was used for a popular fishing hole. To this day water is still at a high level. ....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] A matter of spelling Date: Fri, 3 Nov 100 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) robert netzlof scribit: > > Went to an online 1913 dictionary. There, found > "employe" defined as someone who does the bidding of > another, "employee" defined as a variant of employe. Most intriguing. It would be interesting to compare against other dictionaries of the day. Lest we all forget: dictionaries are as much a product of OPINION -- of their editors, that is -- as any other piece of writing. The dictionary editor is stating what he THINKS is the best way for a word to be used and spelled, based on his experience. And remember that the concept of what the standard is for any given language is quite vague and fluid: the standard form of the language is that used by literate people. Arguments cannot be settled by a single look at a single dictionary. Noah Webster tried to simplify the spelling of American English, and his efforts were patially successful. But even " 'muriken " was left with a whole slew of words whose spellings were far from phonetic. I suspect that the preference of most literate users of English for the form "employee" may have been due to the more obvious correlation between the terminal "ee" and the terminal vowel sound of that word. If Bob's finding in the old dictionary is borne out by further research, then this alone may be the explanation for use by the PRR and other RRs of the form "employe". On the other hand, it could simply be an expression on the part of the railroads of some combination of chauvinism and reality, with their preference for the French masculine form employe' over the French feminine form employe'e. Begging that y'all excuse the lack of a true accent aigu on my email word processor, I remain, Sincerely yours, Mark P.S. Anyone who doubts that chauvinism _could_ have been a reason is invited to read the portions of _The Wreck of the Penn Central_ that describe how the PRR's hierarchy systematically excluded people from certain positions based on ethnicity and religion. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:19:32 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A matter of spelling, now going awry I must protest against this Gross Violation of the Tenets of This Group. Our Board of Volunteer Examiners, a group of Respected Dictionary Editors who together have over 9-score years of Editorial Experience find that this topic contains Speculative Material, that is, Non-fackual Opinion and as such is Not Acceptable. Our Volunteer Examiners request and require that this Tripe and Manure be discontinued At Once. A word to the wise, eh? hahahahaa. --- Mark Bej wrote: > robert netzlof scribit: > > > > Went to an online 1913 dictionary. There, found > > "employe" defined as someone who does the bidding > of > > another, "employee" defined as a variant of > employe. > > Most intriguing. > It would be interesting to compare against other > dictionaries of the day. No need, since Our Dictionary has provided The Answer. > > Lest we all forget: dictionaries are as much a > product of > OPINION -- of their editors, that is -- as any other > piece > of writing. The dictionary editor is stating what he > THINKS > is the best way for a word to be used and spelled, Not when you have a Volunteer Group of Respected Dictionary Editors screening out Tripe and Manure. hahahha > based on > his experience. And remember that the concept of > what the > standard is for any given language is quite vague > and fluid: > the standard form of the language is that used by > literate > people. Arguments cannot be settled by a single look > at a > single dictionary. Not when it's Our Dictionary, source of All Truth. Not like those so-called dictionaries you'll find posted on Certain Web Sites. I just shake my head when I see what Some People post on their so-called Web Sites. Just last week I was in Harrisburg with another Respected Dictionary Editor, doing some Serious Research at the State Archive they have there and he said the same thing. "Pete", he said (he's one of only 2 editors allowed to call me Pete), "I just shake my head when I see what Some People post on their so-called Web Sites". We just shook our heads. Oh well. hahhahaha > > Noah Webster tried to simplify the spelling of > American English, Noah was one of the finest editors I ever had the pleasure of working with. No disrespect to today's editors who no doubt do the best they can at a hard and dangerous job that Other People could not possibly do or understand, but they don't make them like Noah any more. He was one of only 3 editors allowed to call me Pete. Too many of the Old Timers have gone on to the Great Editorial Room in the sky, and that's why we all have to support Our Dictionary Society, to keep alive the Great Tradition those Great Dictionary Editors have passed to This Group to preserve and cherish and fondle and caress... ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? >From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:51:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] A matter of spelling, now going awry From: Jerry Britton On 11/3/00 12:19 PM, robert netzlof (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: > I must protest against this Gross Violation of the > Tenets of This Group. > Oh, man, does my stomach hurt from laughing! Hope you have a strong DELETE key reflex, cause you're gonna need it when the competing Group of Volunteer Dictionary Editors responds! While humorous, please refrain from making such posts on-list. It only reopens the can of worms, which we don't need. Thank you all for your support! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Nick Kulp" Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 14:48:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N.J.International PRR signals for Sale Listers, I have 8 N.J.International Brass PRR Position signals for sale. If you are interested, please contact me. caseyj@mail.igateway.com I would be interested in trading for DCC (Digitrax)Decoders. Regards, Nick Kulp http://www.igateway.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:15:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Service From: Jerry Britton Although running trailers on flats started some time before on a much smaller level, PRR began promoting it as a major service in June of 1954 (I have the announcement brochure). In November or December of 1954, the service was officially named "TrucTrain" following a contest. The announcement of the new name came in the employe(e) magazine "The Pennsy" (I have a copy of this, too). I have a few questions about TrucTrain that are prompted by a set of obviously incorrectly labeled Con Cor "1940's PRR TrucTrain 40' Trailers". First, they could not have been named "TrucTrain" in the 1940's since the name wasn't created until 1954. Second, I don't think there were 40' trailers in the 1940's. 1) When did PRR-owned/leased 40' trailers come into use for TrucTrain service? 2) When the 40' trailers came into use, did the livery still use the long diagonal stripe name across the trailer, or was the 6-7' circular disk applied to the side of the trailer? 3) As of 1954, what size PRR-owned/leased trailers were in use? I know there were 26' units initially and 30'/32' units later. When? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:54:41 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Service I believe that an issue of the Keystone covered all of that. What I'm wondering is when Bowser is going to realize that the flat car they produce is exactly the one the PRR used in the first TrucTrain Service. A few extra castings (safety rail, tire tacks, chain tiedowns, etc) and a correct PRR trailer would turn that kit into a big winner! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > Although running trailers on flats started some time before on a much > smaller level, PRR began promoting it as a major service in June of 1954 (I > have the announcement brochure). > > In November or December of 1954, the service was officially named > "TrucTrain" following a contest. The announcement of the new name came in > the employe(e) magazine "The Pennsy" (I have a copy of this, too). > > I have a few questions about TrucTrain that are prompted by a set of > obviously incorrectly labeled Con Cor "1940's PRR TrucTrain 40' Trailers". > First, they could not have been named "TrucTrain" in the 1940's since the > name wasn't created until 1954. Second, I don't think there were 40' > trailers in the 1940's. > > 1) When did PRR-owned/leased 40' trailers come into use for TrucTrain > service? > > 2) When the 40' trailers came into use, did the livery still use the long > diagonal stripe name across the trailer, or was the 6-7' circular disk > applied to the side of the trailer? > > 3) As of 1954, what size PRR-owned/leased trailers were in use? I know there > were 26' units initially and 30'/32' units later. When? > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:46:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Service From: Jerry Britton On 11/3/00 3:54 PM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > I believe that an issue of the Keystone covered all of that. What I'm > wondering is when Bowser is going to realize that the flat car they > produce is exactly the one the PRR used in the first TrucTrain Service. > A few extra castings (safety rail, tire tacks, chain tiedowns, etc) and > a correct PRR trailer would turn that kit into a big winner! > I agree... but I need 'em in N scale now!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Service Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 16:39:31 -0500 Jerry and list: As an employe of the PRR traffic department from May 1962 to the merger and beyond, recall that TrucTrain was begun with 35 foot trailers, but had switched almost entirely to 40 footers by 1965. All these trailers used the circular logo riveted to the trailer as they were all ribbed side trailers. The only trailers with the diagonal "Pennsylvania" on them were used locally for the delivery of LCL traffic and were 24 foot trailers dating from the 1930's and 1940's. After the merger, many a basement "rec" room was decorated with the circular signs in Philadelphia. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 3:15 PM Subject: [PRR] TrucTrain Service > Although running trailers on flats started some time before on a much > smaller level, PRR began promoting it as a major service in June of 1954 (I > have the announcement brochure). > > In November or December of 1954, the service was officially named > "TrucTrain" following a contest. The announcement of the new name came in > the employe(e) magazine "The Pennsy" (I have a copy of this, too). > > I have a few questions about TrucTrain that are prompted by a set of > obviously incorrectly labeled Con Cor "1940's PRR TrucTrain 40' Trailers". > First, they could not have been named "TrucTrain" in the 1940's since the > name wasn't created until 1954. Second, I don't think there were 40' > trailers in the 1940's. > > 1) When did PRR-owned/leased 40' trailers come into use for TrucTrain > service? > > 2) When the 40' trailers came into use, did the livery still use the long > diagonal stripe name across the trailer, or was the 6-7' circular disk > applied to the side of the trailer? > > 3) As of 1954, what size PRR-owned/leased trailers were in use? I know there > were 26' units initially and 30'/32' units later. When? > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:42:48 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] unfinished tunnel in Cincinnati? Does anyone know anything about the Deer Creek tunnel? (over and above this: http://web.utk.edu/~snake1/tunnels/penn.html) As far as PRR involvement nothing interesting on their page other than that they were involved, but even that is news to me. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 17:26:40 -0600 (CST) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS OK Yuns. It is time to pony up. I received my membership renewal from the PRRT&HS today. They have added a new category of membership of $50 and over. There is also a note at the bottom asking for additional funds for support of the station. If we really care about the society and what it is trying to do, we will include more then just the minimum individual membership. 'Nuff said. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 18:42:35 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] TrucTrain Service Andy and List: After Lee English can be convinced to due a TrucTrain flat, someone will have to work on Dick Meyer to re-issue his HC-563 PRR TrucTrain flat car set as a regular production run decal. I had some dialog with him about a year ago on this subject and he is not really inclined to re-run this set; too many colors, too much handling. He has an Alps printer now for custom decal sets but estimates he would have to charge about $11.00 per HO set, maybe less if ordered in quantity ( I read this to be about 50 sets). Frank Brua Andy Miller wrote: > I believe that an issue of the Keystone covered all of that. What I'm > wondering is when Bowser is going to realize that the flat car they > produce is exactly the one the PRR used in the first TrucTrain Service. > A few extra castings (safety rail, tire tacks, chain tiedowns, etc) and > a correct PRR trailer would turn that kit into a big winner! > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > Although running trailers on flats started some time before on a much > > smaller level, PRR began promoting it as a major service in June of 1954 (I > > have the announcement brochure). > > > > In November or December of 1954, the service was officially named > > "TrucTrain" following a contest. The announcement of the new name came in > > the employe(e) magazine "The Pennsy" (I have a copy of this, too). > > > > I have a few questions about TrucTrain that are prompted by a set of > > obviously incorrectly labeled Con Cor "1940's PRR TrucTrain 40' Trailers". > > First, they could not have been named "TrucTrain" in the 1940's since the > > name wasn't created until 1954. Second, I don't think there were 40' > > trailers in the 1940's. > > > > 1) When did PRR-owned/leased 40' trailers come into use for TrucTrain > > service? > > > > 2) When the 40' trailers came into use, did the livery still use the long > > diagonal stripe name across the trailer, or was the 6-7' circular disk > > applied to the side of the trailer? > > > > 3) As of 1954, what size PRR-owned/leased trailers were in use? I know there > > were 26' units initially and 30'/32' units later. When? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 20:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] unfinished tunnel in Cincinnati? --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the Deer Creek > tunnel? (over and above > this: http://web.utk.edu/~snake1/tunnels/penn.html) > From: The Nickel Plate Story John A. Rehor Kalmbach 1965 pp 129, 131-132 The concept of the narrow-gauge trunk system was born during the memorable Narrow Gauge Convention held at Cincinnati's Grand Hotel during July 1878. For several years afterward the Queen City was looked upon as the capital of the narrow-gauge world, and it is not surprising that it boasted no fewer than five 3-foot gauge roads. Not the least of these was the Cincinnati Northern*, successor to the Miami Valley Narrow Gauge Railway. The latter was organized on Nov. 9, 1874 and was projected northeast 55 miles from Cincinnati to Lebanon and Xenia. * Footnote from pg 129: Not to be confused with the standard gauge Cincinnati Northern extending from Cincinnati to Jackson, MI The project lay dormant until Mar. 1880 when the road was sold at sheriff's sale to who organized the Cincinnati Northern Railway on June 8, 1880. Between Norwood and the basin of Cincinnati, there is a rather formidable ridge known as Walnut Hills. Early railroads entering Cincinnati from the north skirted the ridge by way of the valleys of the Little Miami and Mill Creek. Their termini were separated and ill suited to the central part of the city. The Miami Valley, however, had planned to locate its depot in the heart of the city. Its promoters came into possession of a 15-acre site on Court St. east of Broadway, a partly completed tunnel through Walnut Hills, and a right of way connecting them. Walnut Hills or Deer Creek tunnel was originally engineered and partly built by Erasmus Gest as part of a proposed short line between Cincinnati and Dayton. Including walled and covered approaches, the tunnel was to have been 10,011 feet long, by far the longest tunnel project ever undertaken in Ohio. Between 1852 and 1855, 3336 feet of the tunnel was bored at the two portals and from three deep shafts sunk from the top of Walnut Hills. Work on the project was abandoned in 1855 with the failure of Gest's Dayton & Cincinnati Railroad, but in 1871 a group of local promoters revived it as the Cincinnati Railway Tunnel Co. ... Very little work was accomplished before the enterprise collapsed in the 1873 panic. The Cincinati Northern came into possession of the Court Street property and finally fulfilled the long-cherished dream of building a depot there. ...Cincinnnati Northern ignored the abandoned tunnel and settled for a shallow 1500-foot bore through the top of Walnut Hills. In place of Gest's sustained .75% northbound grade, the CN climbed the south face...at a fierce rate of 3.4%. There was also a 2% ascent to the tunnel from the north. Dispite several proposals to complete the old Gest tunnel, no further work was ever done on it. >From pg 144 The Cincinnati Northern was succeeded by the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Railway on Aug. 1, 1885 CL&N eventually passed under control of the Pensylvania Railroad ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] new model pictures Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:10:24 -0500 Y'all, I have begun to locate color slides of models that I have built over the years since 1981 and had published in the several model railroad magazines. A friend is scanning these slides and e-mailing them to me one at a time. I now have 26 pictures of several of my models ready to view at my Photopoint website. Included are diesels representing the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, Chicago River & Indiana, Union Pacific, Colombia Newberry & Laurens, Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Air Line, Southern, and Norfolk & Western. I will be adding about 5 times this many pictures as they are scanned and forwarded to me. I think that you will like these models. I really love the LV GP38-2! 8~) Click on: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=9740832 Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=205020 Over 60,000 visitors and more than 1100 pictures and growing . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:12:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] A matter of spelling So does all this mean that they had lots of employes in Pittsburg? Sorry, couldn't resist that one! Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:16:38 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Archives, Lewistown, and MONEY From: Michael Allen As this topic has come up on both of these lists I am going to only write one set of comments. If you have read this on the other list or are simply tired of the topic I will not be insulted at all if you simply move on. A significant portion of my living is made doing historical research concerning railroads. Some of it is as mundane as determining the historical accident rates on a piece of track and it ranges up to having had to trace some of the corporate real estate holdings of the PC back to the Newcastle and Frenchwomen Turnpike Co. I spent somewhere between a third and a half of my waking hours over a several year period commuting between the Penn-Central deed room at Morgan Lewis and the map files at Day & Zimmerman in Philadelphia working on the still somewhat unanswered "who actually owns what?" questions for the Reorganization Court. [Yes, I do have one of the "King of the Road" paperweights.] Much of our current work is for law firms doing property litigation, some is for the property owners. Very little, at least very little that gets paid for, is done for simply for the enjoyment of the knowledge, which is why I sometimes envy guys likes Bill Withun, Chris Baer at the Hagely, and Dave Pfieffer at the Archives. Believe me, I know the value of records such as those stashed in Lewistown. I am not a member of the PRRH&TS and I admit that I probably should be, along with the similar groups for every carrier in the east and midwest that anybody ever heard of. The problem for me is a simple one of the allocation of resources, both monetary and temporal. How many Professional Associations and Historical Societies I can afford to join and give the appropriate amount of time to. When I, either personally or as the principal of a consulting firm use a resource provided by any society in which I or my researcher do not hold membership, I either purchase it outright or make a donation to defray the cost. Fortunately, because I am not a member, my view here is not skewed by organizational politics. I would like to see both the station and the archives preserved and think that the people responsible for things going this far should be commended for the fact that both still exist, even if there is some dissension with in the organization about the manner in which the archives are currently being managed. I would like to see them properly cataloged and stored, and made accessible. If, as a nonmember, I were to use the resources at Lewistown for some for profit making research I would certainly expect to pay a reasonable access fee. If I were to become a member and use the resources in the same manner I would certainly make an additional contribution to the maintenance of the collection for the simple reason that I was benefiting financially from access to it. Somebody suggested budgeting $20,000.00 for an archivist at Lewistown. If this was intended as a full-time position that $20,000.00 works out to $10.00 per hour, [cash under the table] with no benefits and an unpaid two week vacation. It does not cover any of the costs of having an employee such as employer's share of Social Security, workman's comp et cetera, nor does it cover the material cost [computers, boxes, file folders, shelving, ad nauseam] of cataloging and storing the archives. I bill casual help, meaning college students working part-time at least $25.00 per hour [plus expenses - the Hagely is an hour and a half from here and the National Archives are about three so I'd better be paying time and mileage.]. Of that the person will probably net about $12.00 to $15.00 and I will be lucky if I make any profit out of their time. Since their job is to provide the raw material for my final product the profit is in the billings for my time. An associate, meaning someone with a degree and enough knowledge to make their own decisions about how to do something and who can work on a particular job more or less full time on their own will be billed at least $60.00 an hour. I'm pulling employer costs and some profit out of that so figure that their pretax gross will about half that. My guess is that at a bare minimum Lewistown would need a full time archivist and some part time help. My budget figures, including employer costs, would be about $75,000 for the archivist and another $50,000. for the part time help. Some of the part-time help could certainly be volunteer but they require a certain amount of training, supervision, and insurance so there is a cost here too. This puts the personnel cost of cataloging the collection at around $125,000.00 to $150,000.00 per year. With the 5,000 members cited in one post this would be a surcharge of $30.00 per year. Based on the 3,000 member figure in another post the surcharge would be $50.00 per year. These numbers are on par with membership fees at various museums and libraries and would be downright cheap compared to some. [Firestone Library at Princeton charges the nonaffiliated over $300.00 per year.] This of course assumes that all of the membership will pay the surcharge. There would probably be some additional revenue available from "corporate memberships" from firms such as mine but I doubt that we could sustain such a project independently of the various consulting contracts which require the use of the information. I know I couldn't. I have occasionally made deals such as "If you let us dig through your boxes of records and copy what we need we will put them in some kind of order for you." This is when my client needs the information badly enough to pay for the time involved to do it right. While this may sound good it is really an invitation to disaster since everybody will have a different vision of what should be and the searchers don't necessarily have the motivation to protect the material. It costs me A LOT to do that right so I need a deep pockets client. This hasn't even touched on the infrastructure costs. While I have seen the Lewistown station in passing I am simply not familiar enough with it to even begin to comment on what might be needed. I won't hazard a guess as to what the needs are in storage space construction, climate control, research space, document restoration, etc except that they will be substantial. The bottom line is that this is an expensive project over several years, especially if done by an essentially volunteer organization such as the PRRH&TS. Would I join the society if the archives were usable as a professional resource? Yes. Will I join if the resources become useful for a personal project? Yes, certainly and probably quite quickly soon. Would I make a corporate donation of some type? Probably, The amount would simply depend on how useful they were to me. Is the out-of-the-way location in Lewistown a factor in their utility? Yes, but if I need to go or send somebody to Pittsburgh I can certainly go or send somebody to Lewistown. Do the forgoing comments apply only to the PRRH&TS? No, they apply to every volunteer/fraternal organization which maintains such a collection. Side note specifically for Mr. Buchan - If back issues of THE KEYSTONE were available on CD-ROM that would militate strongly toward your gaining an additional member. I thank you for your indulgence, Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com Managing Partner, W.R. Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net 68 Magnolia Lane Telephone 609-683-0356 Princeton, NJ 08540 Telecopier 609-683-0192 _____________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Management Services ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "gregory" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 07:25:17 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04630.6177F580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In would like to see the Lewistown Station and the archives preserved at = Lewistown. The idea of sending it to strasburg does not sound like a = good idea. The PRR museum has extensive archives already. Has anyone one = been able to access information there? If they recieve more information, will there not be a tendency to get = rid of somethings and save others do to a lack of space? What control = would the society have over the information once it is donated....NONE!=20 Because things are moving slowly on at Lewistown is no reason to loose = heart. Such stirring we hear now can be a rallying point to get things = done rather than to quit. As a member and from afar, I have seen a lot = of progress done on the station. It may be slow by some people standards = but it is still progress. It would be a shame to see all the volunteer = efforts go for nothing. There are things that can be done. There are = many ways to raise moneys. Other societys have many ways of raising = funds. The N&W sells many books, models, slides, etc. through its = commissary. I believe the society can pay for itself and also raise = donations to get things done.=20 I think the K4 restoration project should serve as an example to us. = Just when many were ready to give up on her and the moneys seem like = they would never come, along came funding that will assure her = restoration. Sometimes things come slowly. We have nothing to loose by = keeping the station and the archives. We have both to loose by giving = them away. In this situation once the decision is made to give up you = can't go back! Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04630.6177F580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In would like to see the Lewistown = Station and the=20 archives preserved at Lewistown. The idea of sending it to strasburg = does not=20 sound like a good idea. The PRR museum has extensive archives already. = Has=20 anyone one been able to access information there?
If they recieve more information, will = there not be=20 a tendency to get rid of somethings and save others do to a lack of = space? What=20 control would the society have over the information once it is = donated....NONE!=20
Because things are moving slowly on at = Lewistown is=20 no reason to loose heart. Such stirring we hear now can be a rallying = point to=20 get things done rather than to quit. As a member and from afar, I have = seen a=20 lot of progress done on the station. It may be slow by some people = standards but=20 it is still progress. It would be a shame to see all the volunteer = efforts go=20 for nothing. There are things that can be done. There are many ways to = raise=20 moneys. Other societys have many ways of raising funds. The N&W = sells many=20 books, models, slides, etc. through its commissary. I believe the = society can=20 pay for itself and also raise donations to get things done. =
 I think the K4 restoration = project should=20 serve as an example to us. Just when many were ready to give up on her = and the=20 moneys seem like they would never come, along came funding that will = assure her=20 restoration. Sometimes things come slowly. We have nothing to loose by = keeping=20 the station and the archives. We have both to loose by giving them away. = In this=20 situation once the decision is made to give up you can't go = back!
 
Greg Stone
PRRT&HS member
Special interest Renovo=20 Yards
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C04630.6177F580-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 11:12:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Fw: Archives, Lewistown, and MONEY minor correction From: Michael Allen Proffessor Allen stands duley chastised. With a correction which my spellchecker made REMOVED the fourth line of the the third paragragh should read "...Newcastle and Frenchtowne Turnpike..." and a couple of other such glitches are coorected below. As this topic has come up on both of these lists I am going to only write one set of comments. If you have read this on the other list or are simply tired of the topic I will not be insulted at all if you simply move on. A significant portion of my living is made doing historical research concerning railroads. Some of it is as mundane as determining the historical accident rates on a piece of track and it ranges up to having had to trace some of the corporate real estate holdings of the PC back to the Newcastle and Frenchtowne Turnpike Co. I spent somewhere between a third and a half of my waking hours over a several year period commuting between the Penn-Central deed room at Morgan Lewis and the map files at Day & Zimmerman in Philadelphia working on the still somewhat unanswered "who actually owns what?" questions for the Reorganization Court. [Yes, I do have one of the "King of the Road" paperweights.] Much of our current work is for law firms doing property litigation, some is for the property owners. Very little, at least very little that gets paid for, is done for simply for the enjoyment of the knowledge, which is why I sometimes envy guys likes Bill Withun, Chris Baer at the Hagely, and Dave Pfieffer at the Archives. Believe me, I know the value of records such as those stashed in Lewistown. I am not a member of the PRRH&TS and I admit that I probably should be, along with the similar groups for every carrier in the east and midwest that anybody ever heard of. The problem for me is a simple one of the allocation of resources, both monetary and temporal. How many Professional Associations and Historical Societies I can afford to join and give the appropriate amount of time to. When I, either personally or as the principal of a consulting firm use a resource provided by any society in which I or my researcher do not hold membership, I either purchase it outright or make a donation to defray the cost. Fortunately, because I am not a member, my view here is not skewed by organizational politics. I would like to see both the station and the archives preserved and think that the people responsible for things going this far should be commended for the fact that both still exist, even if there is some dissension with in the organization about the manner in which the archives are currently being managed. I would like to see them properly cataloged and stored, and made accessible. If, as a nonmember, I were to use the resources at Lewistown for some for profit making research I would certainly expect to pay a reasonable access fee. If I were to become a member and use the resources in the same manner I would certainly make an additional contribution to the maintenance of the collection for the simple reason that I was benefiting financially from access to it. Somebody suggested budgeting $20,000.00 for an archivist at Lewistown. If this was intended as a full-time position that $20,000.00 works out to $10.00 per hour, [cash under the table] with no benefits and an unpaid two week vacation. It does not cover any of the costs of having an employee such as employer's share of Social Security, workman's comp et cetera, nor does it cover the material cost [computers, boxes, file folders, shelving, ad nauseam] of cataloging and storing the archives. I bill casual help, meaning college students working part-time at at least $25.00 per hour [plus expenses - the Hagely is an hour and a half from here and the National Archives are about three so I'd better be paying time and mileage.]. Of that the person will probably net about $12.00 to $15.00 and I will be lucky if I make any profit out of their time. Since their job is to provide the raw material for my final product the profit is in the billings for my time. An associate, meaning someone with a degree and enough knowledge to make their own decisions about how to do something and who can work on a particular job more or less full time on their own will be billed at at least $60.00 an hour. I'm pulling employer costs and some profit out of that so figure that their pretax gross will about half that. My guess is that at a bare minimum Lewistown would need a full time archivist and some part time help. My budget figures, including employer costs, would be about $75,000 for the archivist and another $50,000. for the part time help. Some of the part-time help could certainly be volunteer but they require a certain amount of training, supervision, and insurance so there is a cost here too. This puts the personnel cost of cataloging the collection at around $125,000.00 to $150,000.00 per year. With the 5,000 members cited in one post this would be a surcharge of $30.00 per year. Based on the 3,000 member figure in another post the surcharge would be $50.00 per year. These numbers are on par with membership fees at various museums and libraries and would be downright cheap compared to some. [Firestone Library at Princeton charges the nonaffiliated over $300.00 per year.] This of course assumes that all of the membership will pay the surcharge. There would probably be some additional revenue available from "corporate memberships" from firms such as mine but I doubt that we could sustain such a project independently of the various consulting contracts which require the use of the information. I know I couldn't. I have occasionally made deals such as "If you let us dig through your boxes of records and copy what we need we will put them in some kind of order for you." This is when my client needs the information badly enough to pay for the time involved to do it right. While this may sound good it is really an invitation to disaster since everybody will have a different vision of what should be and the searchers don't necessarily have the motivation to protect the material. It costs me A LOT to do that right so I need a deep pockets client. This hasn't even touched on the infrastructure costs. While I have seen the Lewistown station in passing I am simply not familiar enough with it to even begin to comment on what might be needed. I won't hazard a guess as to what the needs are in storage space construction, climate control, research space, document restoration, etc except that they will be substantial. The bottom line is that this is an expensive project over several years, especially if done by an essentially volunteer organization such as the PRRH&TS. Would I join the society if the archives were usable as a professional resource? Yes. Will I join if the resources become useful for a personal project? Yes, certainly and probably quite quickly soon. Would I make a corporate donation of some type? Probably, The amount would simply depend on how useful they were to me. Is the out-of-the-way location in Lewistown a factor in their utility? Yes, but if I need to go or send somebody to Pittsburgh I can certainly go or send somebody to Lewistown. Do the forgoing comments apply only to the PRRH&TS? No, they apply to every volunteer/fraternal organization which maintains such a collection. Side note specifically for Mr. Buchan - If back issues of THE KEYSTONE were available on CD-ROM that would militate strongly toward your gaining an additional member. I thank you for your indulgence, Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com Managing Partner, W.R. Allen Associates wrallenassoc@earthlink.net 68 Magnolia Lane Telephone 609-683-0356 Princeton, NJ 08540 Telecopier 609-683-0192 _____________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Management Services ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 12:12:39 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] unfinished tunnel in Cincinnati? To all, Sadly, the Deer Creek Tunnel is no more. Construction of Interstate 71 just north and east of Cincinnati's central business district obliterated the tunnel and most of the the CL&N south of Norwood as the highway was laidout through a cut in Walnut Hill that included the tunnel site. If you're driving along I-71, the tunnel was located in the vincinity of the Gilbert Avenue interchange, the exit to Mount Adams, the Cincy Museum of Art and Eden Park. Tom V. In a message dated Fri, 3 Nov 2000 11:16:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, robert netzlof writes: << --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the Deer Creek > tunnel? (over and above > this: http://web.utk.edu/~snake1/tunnels/penn.html) > From: The Nickel Plate Story John A. Rehor Kalmbach 1965 pp 129, 131-132 The concept of the narrow-gauge trunk system was born during the memorable Narrow Gauge Convention held at Cincinnati's Grand Hotel during July 1878. For several years afterward the Queen City was looked upon as the capital of the narrow-gauge world, and it is not surprising that it boasted no fewer than five 3-foot gauge roads. Not the least of these was the Cincinnati Northern*, successor to the Miami Valley Narrow Gauge Railway. The latter was organized on Nov. 9, 1874 and was projected northeast 55 miles from Cincinnati to Lebanon and Xenia. * Footnote from pg 129: Not to be confused with the standard gauge Cincinnati Northern extending from Cincinnati to Jackson, MI The project lay dormant until Mar. 1880 when the road was sold at sheriff's sale to who organized the Cincinnati Northern Railway on June 8, 1880. Between Norwood and the basin of Cincinnati, there is a rather formidable ridge known as Walnut Hills. Early railroads entering Cincinnati from the north skirted the ridge by way of the valleys of the Little Miami and Mill Creek. Their termini were separated and ill suited to the central part of the city. The Miami Valley, however, had planned to locate its depot in the heart of the city. Its promoters came into possession of a 15-acre site on Court St. east of Broadway, a partly completed tunnel through Walnut Hills, and a right of way connecting them. Walnut Hills or Deer Creek tunnel was originally engineered and partly built by Erasmus Gest as part of a proposed short line between Cincinnati and Dayton. Including walled and covered approaches, the tunnel was to have been 10,011 feet long, by far the longest tunnel project ever undertaken in Ohio. Between 1852 and 1855, 3336 feet of the tunnel was bored at the two portals and from three deep shafts sunk from the top of Walnut Hills. Work on the project was abandoned in 1855 with the failure of Gest's Dayton & Cincinnati Railroad, but in 1871 a group of local promoters revived it as the Cincinnati Railway Tunnel Co. ... Very little work was accomplished before the enterprise collapsed in the 1873 panic. The Cincinati Northern came into possession of the Court Street property and finally fulfilled the long-cherished dream of building a depot there. ..Cincinnnati Northern ignored the abandoned tunnel and settled for a shallow 1500-foot bore through the top of Walnut Hills. In place of Gest's sustained .75% northbound grade, the CN climbed the south face...at a fierce rate of 3.4%. There was also a 2% ascent to the tunnel from the north. Dispite several proposals to complete the old Gest tunnel, no further work was ever done on it. >From pg 144 The Cincinnati Northern was succeeded by the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern Railway on Aug. 1, 1885 CL&N eventually passed under control of the Pensylvania Railroad ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:56:35 -0500 From: Nick Kulp Subject: [PRR] N.J.International signals sold Listers, Thanks for the overwhelming response. The PRR position lights have been spoken for and are now sold. Regards, Nick Kulp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 14:48:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. Sam,Bruce,list The water station West of Smithville is indeed an interesting site. What I assume is the works building is circular. Approximately 15' in diameter with a conical wooden roof. The structure is about 30' tall. It is constructed of field stone and faced with black speckled granite. There are white granite inlays 2/3 the way up the stone work. The building has a " basement ", For lack of a better word. This basement appears to have housed the plumbing. It is accessed through a 3x2 opening in the floor on the first level. t appears to have the original metal latter and door. I'm curious what the first floor was used for. The structure sits 100 yards back from the roadbed and 40 to 50 yards above. The reservoir is about 40 yards in diameter and line with slate. I was told it was 4 to 5 feet deep. It is located only 20 to 30 yards behind the works building and 20 yards above. Thats why I belive the system would have been all gravity feed. The owner had a Conral map of the area showing his lot. There was a siding located were the water station is. I'm wondering if this was a helper pocket for the West end of " SMITH " . Need to find pre 1937 ? track chart. Jerries track chart pages are not web tv friendly. רררררררררררר..Mark L .רררררררררררררר ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 15:23:58 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] LEWISTOWN MEMORANDUM November 4, 2000 TO: PRRTHS MEMBERS FROM: BENNETT LEVIN RE: LEWISTOWN STATION To those of you who have seen portions of the discussion on the Internet concerning the situation at Lewistown with respect to the Station project and the Contents of the building, I would like to add my two cents. I have tried not to impose my views about the Society's business since I stepped down as its president many years ago. I had concluded that some of the directors who were serving at that time lacked vision and that control of the Society was tightly held by a very small clique that rotated "power" amongst themselves. That tight control stiffled creative thinking and alienated many who had much to contribute but felt abused by the high-handedness and boarderline paranoia of some of those who saw themselves as the annointed heirs to the task of preserving the legend and the reminants of the PRR. I now see that some members of the BOD have expressed some reservations as to the future of the Lewistown Structure as well as the contents of the building (paper and otherwise) together with the microfilm operation. As an early supporter of the Station Project (I donated the funds to reproduce the microfilms in order for the Society to have as complete a set as was known to exist at that time, as well as the heating plant for the building) I consider myself a stakeholder. I do acknowledge that those who provided sweat equity probably have provided the most significant contribution. In this morning's mail I received my dues statement with an appeal for more money for Lewistown and the archives. I fail to understand if the BOD is now struggling with the future of the station and its contents, how they can ask the membership for additional fiancial support. One would think that a candid statement of the problem that the BOD is discussing in camera would be shared with the memberbership, before an appeal is made for more money. If there were a clear statement of purpose and a clear statement of the challenge, then clear thinking members would be able to make a clearly informed decision. The membership has never failed to support the station project, even it was obscured at times by "smoke and mirrors". The membership needs the following at this time, especially if the BOD is struggling with a situation that appears as grave and as radical as what internet postings seem to indicate. 1. A statement of how much money the Society has invested in the building. 2. A statement of the cost of the microfilm machine and the reason it is not housed in Lewistown. 3. A clear statement of the nature of the so-called archives. Do we have films and photos, microfilms, original first level documents, significant artifacts, and other less important minutia? I propose that an independent "Blue Ribbon Panel" be appointed by either the BOD or by each chapter having the right to select one member to review the entire Lewistown situation and report to the membership at the spring meeting. The Panel should be independent of the BOD and should consist of three members (or one per chapter) who would have the respect of the membership. BOD representation should be limited to one BOD member and there should be no surrogates. The panel should be charged to define the problem in clear and consise terms and to outline alternate courses of actions that would allow a frank and open discussion to occur at the Spring Meeting. I would go as far as to suggest that we have the findings of the panel posted on the internet to allow public (Members only) comment. The BOD must allow an open vetting of this issue if Lewistown is not going to fester and ultimately drive a fatal wedge into the Society. Your comments are solicited. BL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] PRR Belt buckles Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 17:56:45 -0500 For years I had a belt buckle that was a small reproduction of a Juniata Shops K4s builders plate, with a matching tie tack. The belt buckle met with an accident and I would like to replace it but the manufacturer's name has long worn off and I can't even remember where I purchased it. Does anyone out there know if these are still available and if so where I might purchase one? Gregg Mahlkov e-mail: mahlkov@gtcom.net http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:59:24 -0500 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] LEWISTOWN A member per chapter doesn't exactly do a liot for us members in other areas. John Ryan Bennett Levin wrote: > MEMORANDUM > > November 4, 2000 > > TO: PRRTHS MEMBERS > > FROM: BENNETT LEVIN > > RE: LEWISTOWN STATION > > To those of you who have seen portions of the discussion on the Internet > concerning the situation at Lewistown with respect to the Station > project and the Contents of the building, I would like to add my two > cents. I have tried not to impose my views about the Society's business > since I stepped down as its president many years ago. I had concluded > that some of the directors who were serving at that time lacked vision > and that control of the Society was tightly held by a very small clique > that rotated "power" amongst themselves. That tight control stiffled > creative thinking and alienated many who had much to contribute but felt > abused by the high-handedness and boarderline paranoia of some of those > who saw themselves as the annointed heirs to the task of preserving the > legend and the reminants of the PRR. > > I now see that some members of the BOD have expressed some reservations > as to the future of the Lewistown Structure as well as the contents of > the building (paper and otherwise) together with the microfilm > operation. As an early supporter of the Station Project (I donated the > funds to reproduce the microfilms in order for the Society to have as > complete a set as was known to exist at that time, as well as the > heating plant for the building) I consider myself a stakeholder. I do > acknowledge that those who provided sweat equity probably have provided > the most significant contribution. In this morning's mail I received my > dues statement with an appeal for more money for Lewistown and the > archives. I fail to understand if the BOD is now struggling with the > future of the station and its contents, how they can ask the membership > for additional fiancial support. One would think that a candid statement > of the problem that the BOD is discussing in camera would be shared with > the memberbership, before an appeal is made for more money. > > If there were a clear statement of purpose and a clear statement of the > challenge, then clear thinking members would be able to make a clearly > informed decision. The membership has never failed to support the > station project, even it was obscured at times by "smoke and mirrors". > > The membership needs the following at this time, especially if the BOD > is struggling with a situation that appears as grave and as radical as > what internet postings seem to indicate. > > 1. A statement of how much money the Society has invested in the > building. > 2. A statement of the cost of the microfilm machine and the reason it is > not housed in Lewistown. > 3. A clear statement of the nature of the so-called archives. Do we have > films and photos, microfilms, original first level documents, > significant artifacts, and other less important minutia? > > I propose that an independent "Blue Ribbon Panel" be appointed by either > the BOD or by each chapter having the right to select one member to > review the entire Lewistown situation and report to the membership at > the spring meeting. The Panel should be independent of the BOD and > should consist of three members (or one per chapter) who would have the > respect of the membership. BOD representation should be limited to one > BOD member and there should be no surrogates. > > The panel should be charged to define the problem in clear and consise > terms and to outline alternate courses of actions that would allow a > frank and open discussion to occur at the Spring Meeting. I would go as > far as to suggest that we have the findings of the panel posted on the > internet to allow public (Members only) comment. > > The BOD must allow an open vetting of this issue if Lewistown is not > going to fester and ultimately drive a fatal wedge into the Society. > > Your comments are solicited. > > BL > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 18:28:50 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. --- Mark Lehman wrote: > Sam,Bruce,list > > The water station West of Smithville is indeed an > interesting site. What > I assume is the works building is circular. > Approximately 15' in > diameter with a conical wooden roof. The structure > is about 30' tall. Your description matches two similar structures (one now gone) here in the wilds of western Pa. > It > is constructed of field stone and faced with black > speckled granite. > There are white granite inlays 2/3 the way up the > stone work. The > building has a " basement ", For lack of a better > word. This basement > appears to have housed the plumbing. It is accessed > through a 3x2 > opening in the floor on the first level. t appears > to have the original > metal latter and door. I'm curious what the first > floor was used for. Looks like the top of a castle tower as pictured in any number of kiddies' story books? I suspect the stem(s) of the valve(s) stuck up through the floor and that in the normal course of affairs the trapdoor and ladder were used only when somebody had to go down there to tighten a packing gland or otherwise service the valve. > The structure sits 100 yards back from the roadbed > and 40 to 50 yards > above. > > The reservoir is about 40 yards in diameter and > line with slate. I was > told it was 4 to 5 feet deep. It is located only 20 > to 30 yards behind > the works building and 20 yards above. Thats why I > belive the system > would have been all gravity feed. There is/was a similar reservoir on top of a knoll perhaps 1/4 mile north of the main line east of Latrobe. Lining wasn't slate, as I recall, but stone-lined nonetheless. I had been told that the reason it was there was to provide a local supply of water for the track pans. In order to provide water for the Pittsburgh Division, PRR had one or two collecting reservoirs on the west side of Laurel Hill, another at Hillside on the Chestnut Ridge, and multiple water mains carrying water, I have been told, "all the way to Pittsburgh". In addition to the saucer-shaped reservoir near Latrobe, there is a small dam and pond between US30 and the RR west of Greensburg. There is one of the round, conical roofed buildings there, near the dam. I believe the purpose of these smaller ponds/dams/reservoirs (and there may well have been more than the two I know of) was to allow water from far away to accumulate locally during low demand times. Have no clue what arrangements PRR may have set up east of the Susquehanna, but if they built one such system, why not another? One issue in western Pa was, of course, that so many of the streams were highly acidic and loaded with iron salts from mine waste water that PRR could not use most freely available water. The mains remained in place long after PRR stopped using steam. Thirty or so years ago some clever fellow bought the whole system and went into business supplying water to municipal systems along the main line. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 21:38:25 -0600 Subject: Re: [PRR] LEWISTOWN From: "William J. Ayers" PRRTHS members, I have contemplated for several years about joining the Society and finally joined about a month ago. Being such a new member, I have some reservations about commenting on the Lewistown situation, but as an avid PRR fan and a preservationist at heart (be it railroad or otherwise), I feel that any and all input on this matter is crutial. So, I will "risk it". I agree completely with Mr. Levin's comments. So far, I have not received any mailings from the Society other then the "Welcome Kit". Nor have I seen any mention on the internet regarding the nature of the need for more money for Lewistown. Without such knowledge, it is easy to conjure up a worst-case scenario. Is the Society in such dire financial straights that liquidating the Lewistown Station and/or its contents is necessary for survival? Does the BOD not want to be burdened with the responsibility of maintaining the Station, or putting the Archives in an accessible condition? Or, to be optimistic, is the BOD ready to set up a fund that will be used to organize and catalog the Archives by asking for additional contributions from it's members? Jerry Britton posted on "PRR-Talk" Oct. 31: "Though the by-laws may allow the directors to make such a decision on their own, I fear that a decision by the directors alone would mark the beginning of the end of our great society." Should the BOD decide on their own to carry this out, it would be a disaster for the PRRTHS. The Station and especially the Archives are of such import and great potential, I firmly believe that all of the Society's members' input is absolutely essential and must be a part of the decision making process. If the members are shut out from this decision, it may not kill the Society, but it could easily diminish the effectivness and clout the Society has, which, it is my guess, was achieved through hard work and dedication. I would urge the BOD to approach this issue cautiously, with open eyes, ears, mind, and heart. Don't do something that would be regrettable and irreversible. William Ayers #6859 Lake City, IA > If there were a clear statement of purpose and a clear statement of the > challenge, then clear thinking members would be able to make a clearly > informed decision. The membership has never failed to support the > station project, even it was obscured at times by "smoke and mirrors". > > The membership needs the following at this time, especially if the BOD > is struggling with a situation that appears as grave and as radical as > what internet postings seem to indicate. > > 1. A statement of how much money the Society has invested in the > building. > 2. A statement of the cost of the microfilm machine and the reason it is > not housed in Lewistown. > 3. A clear statement of the nature of the so-called archives. Do we have > films and photos, microfilms, original first level documents, > significant artifacts, and other less important minutia? > > I propose that an independent "Blue Ribbon Panel" be appointed by either > the BOD or by each chapter having the right to select one member to > review the entire Lewistown situation and report to the membership at > the spring meeting. The Panel should be independent of the BOD and > should consist of three members (or one per chapter) who would have the > respect of the membership. BOD representation should be limited to one > BOD member and there should be no surrogates. > > The panel should be charged to define the problem in clear and consise > terms and to outline alternate courses of actions that would allow a > frank and open discussion to occur at the Spring Meeting. I would go as > far as to suggest that we have the findings of the panel posted on the > internet to allow public (Members only) comment. > > The BOD must allow an open vetting of this issue if Lewistown is not > going to fester and ultimately drive a fatal wedge into the Society. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:06:11 -0500 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] LEWISTOWN John, It was only a suggestion to get a representitive basis other than one appointed directly by the BOD. I sense there is some urgency in this matter and if there were some other method suggested to provide a diverse set of appointees I would be very supportive. My real point was that there is a need not to "stack the deck" and have a report issued (including dessent) that would allow the members to make an informed opinion and have informed discourse.A lack of candor and credibility are the last things we need right now. Bennett "John F. Ryan, Jr." wrote: > > A member per chapter doesn't exactly do a liot for us members in other > areas. > > John Ryan > > Bennett Levin wrote: > > > MEMORANDUM > > > > November 4, 2000 > > > > TO: PRRTHS MEMBERS > > > > FROM: BENNETT LEVIN > > > > RE: LEWISTOWN STATION > > > > To those of you who have seen portions of the discussion on the Internet > > concerning the situation at Lewistown with respect to the Station > > project and the Contents of the building, I would like to add my two > > cents. I have tried not to impose my views about the Society's business > > since I stepped down as its president many years ago. I had concluded > > that some of the directors who were serving at that time lacked vision > > and that control of the Society was tightly held by a very small clique > > that rotated "power" amongst themselves. That tight control stiffled > > creative thinking and alienated many who had much to contribute but felt > > abused by the high-handedness and boarderline paranoia of some of those > > who saw themselves as the annointed heirs to the task of preserving the > > legend and the reminants of the PRR. > > > > I now see that some members of the BOD have expressed some reservations > > as to the future of the Lewistown Structure as well as the contents of > > the building (paper and otherwise) together with the microfilm > > operation. As an early supporter of the Station Project (I donated the > > funds to reproduce the microfilms in order for the Society to have as > > complete a set as was known to exist at that time, as well as the > > heating plant for the building) I consider myself a stakeholder. I do > > acknowledge that those who provided sweat equity probably have provided > > the most significant contribution. In this morning's mail I received my > > dues statement with an appeal for more money for Lewistown and the > > archives. I fail to understand if the BOD is now struggling with the > > future of the station and its contents, how they can ask the membership > > for additional fiancial support. One would think that a candid statement > > of the problem that the BOD is discussing in camera would be shared with > > the memberbership, before an appeal is made for more money. > > > > If there were a clear statement of purpose and a clear statement of the > > challenge, then clear thinking members would be able to make a clearly > > informed decision. The membership has never failed to support the > > station project, even it was obscured at times by "smoke and mirrors". > > > > The membership needs the following at this time, especially if the BOD > > is struggling with a situation that appears as grave and as radical as > > what internet postings seem to indicate. > > > > 1. A statement of how much money the Society has invested in the > > building. > > 2. A statement of the cost of the microfilm machine and the reason it is > > not housed in Lewistown. > > 3. A clear statement of the nature of the so-called archives. Do we have > > films and photos, microfilms, original first level documents, > > significant artifacts, and other less important minutia? > > > > I propose that an independent "Blue Ribbon Panel" be appointed by either > > the BOD or by each chapter having the right to select one member to > > review the entire Lewistown situation and report to the membership at > > the spring meeting. The Panel should be independent of the BOD and > > should consist of three members (or one per chapter) who would have the > > respect of the membership. BOD representation should be limited to one > > BOD member and there should be no surrogates. > > > > The panel should be charged to define the problem in clear and consise > > terms and to outline alternate courses of actions that would allow a > > frank and open discussion to occur at the Spring Meeting. I would go as > > far as to suggest that we have the findings of the panel posted on the > > internet to allow public (Members only) comment. > > > > The BOD must allow an open vetting of this issue if Lewistown is not > > going to fester and ultimately drive a fatal wedge into the Society. > > > > Your comments are solicited. > > > > BL > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "KeithPomroy" Subject: RE: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:03:31 -0500 Hello All, Slight change in emphasis here--I've been hearing (through local Lancaster County press) and through one mention in Railpace a few months back, that Norfolk Southern is now policing the right of way of the Low Grade line. Does anyone know anything about the line's being rebuilt and resuscitated for traffic? (After watching 70 trains a day go up over Gallitzin a few weeks back, the thought of at least a major portion of that traffic crossing streets at grade in Lebanon, PA, on the old Reading line was a bit mindboggling.) Anyway, it would appear that NS could definitely use the Low Grade as an alternate route, at least to Morrisville, if not for New York/Northern New Jersey traffic. Thanks, Keith Pomroy -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of sam cali Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 7:45 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. >From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line water station. >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:22:47 -0500 (EST) > > Hello, Anyone have track chart for the line West of Quarryville. Found >a person with a small reservoir and granite works building on there >property just above the line.It's classic PRR design. I'm thinking it >supplied standpipes. It is located about 4 miles west of Smithville.Also >were helpers needed anywhere along the A&S ? >רררררררררThax-Mark >Lרררררררררררר Mark, Are you referring to a building that would house a pump for a water station? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "gregory" Subject: [PRR] O scale Sunset "3rd rail" T-1 in 2 rail wanted Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 07:36:09 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C046FB.10A5A280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have or know where I can find a 2 rail altoona version of = the T-1 for sale in O-scale. I had one ordered but my dealer dropped the ball on my order again. This = is the second time. There won't be a third! --Greg Stone Member PRRTHS=20 special interest Renovo Yards I know that didn't run through Renovo but I still would like to have = one. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C046FB.10A5A280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have or know where I can = find a 2 rail=20 altoona version of the T-1 for sale in O-scale.
I had one ordered but my dealer dropped = the ball on=20 my order again. This is the second time. There won't be a = third!
 
--Greg Stone
Member PRRTHS
special interest Renovo = Yards
 
I know that didn't run through Renovo = but I still=20 would like to have one.
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C046FB.10A5A280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:19:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] 70 trains through Galitzin ? 70 trains through Galitzin ,WOW ! Is that right? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 11:41:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] A&S Low Grade Line to reopen ? Keith,List Thats the scuttlebutt I hear. From what I understand Conrail was to give or sell the ROW to the state.The line was to be used for the " Rails to Trails " program. When NS took over they withdrew the offer and kept the ROW.As to the policing of the line. Amtrak or NS or both still us the line for electric. I would imagine the line would be policed to some extent.ררררררררר.Mark L .ררררררררררר ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRRT&HS Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:33:34 -0500 To answer Greg Stone's question "The PRR museum has extensive archives already. Has anyone one been able to access information there?" Yes I have made several visits to the museum archives (must make an appointment not just show up) and found Kurt Bell, the FRM Archivist, to be very receptive and accommodating. The information that is there is relatively accessible. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 11:35:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] X-42 Pic List, Last month I posted that I seen a rare X42 that has survived to this day. Located near Cooperstown Jct, NY is the Leatherstocking Railway Historical Society. This X-42 belongs to this group. As you will see in the photo, it is clearly an X-42 Class. Paintouts of the old PRR or PC lettering is shown. (Note the S). Somewhere in time a door has been installed to the side. It retains the high speed trucks. Looks well worth restoring. Hope the group has plans for it. Have a look at: http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4s/x42.jpg Also on the trip we saw the remnants of an ex-PRR EP22 #5762 (E-8). This is located west of Albany on Route 20 outside the town of Duanseburg). You will see in the photo the PRR heritage. Nose Lifting Rings and if you look at the front nose door, the PC Logo. The owner has plans on restoring it to somewhat of its old appearence. He has no insides of the Loco but is a whiz at welding and is making a storeroom out of it, he builds reproduction Baggage Wagons and other items. He has one truck, the fuel tank and other misc items to make it as complete as possible. However, when finished he plans on painting it in NYC Lightning Stipes livery. You can see the work that has been done and needs to be done. He has hopes of completeing it next year. Have a look at: http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4s/ep22a.jpg http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4s/ep22b.jpg ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] new pics - old models Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 10:39:15 -0500 Y'all, Following several requests from people I have just uploaded more pictures of many of my older models that were featured in various magazine articles to the following Photopoint albums. I will be adding more as the week goes by and I get more of them scanned. Please let me know what you think. There are lots of photos here that should generate conversation/questions. I will be glad to respond. NEW PICTURES: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=9740832 NEW, B&O and Chessie model pictures http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=9796373 NEW, Conrail model pictures http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=9796335 Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=205020 Over 60,000 visitors and more than 1100 pictures and growing . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 13:43:41 +0000 From: Roger Hensley Subject: [PRR] Surplus Book Sale Periodically, the National Model Railroad Association's Kalmbach Memorial Library holds a surplus book sale to eliminate duplicate books, periodicals, videos and more in order to make room for additions to their collection. You can access the duplicates web page at http://www.nmra.org/library/ and simply take the _Duplicate Book Sale_ link. You will find both prototype and modeling subjects included. While you are there, take a look at some of the services offered by the library and the collections list. Perhaps this will help answer some of the questions you may have about the library. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 15:19:07 -0600 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] V&O Railroad For Sale Sorry for this being off-topic, but I just received this off the LDSIG list: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:56:02 -0500 From: "J Anthony Koester" Subject: RE: BULLETIN: Want to buy the V&O? Well, not the V&O as a corporate entity, but the layout with the thick roof that keeps the rain out is listed for immediate sale. Allen and Sharon McClelland have decided to move to a one-story home in the same area around Dayton, Ohio, due to some mobility problems Sharon has been experiencing. They are therefore putting the house, including railroad infrastructure, up for sale this week. They have no prospective buyers nor have they located a new house with a large basement for the next edition of the V&O. Allen is going to model a new part of the V&O: that segment just west of the current Afton-to-Kingswood Jct. part. It will start with the west end of that AM-V&O junction and continue west. No large yards are planned, but several large industries along the river will be featured. He has some clever ideas about staging being located inside a central peninsula so that it could be used as a fiddle yard. We hope to have this developed well enough to feature in the 2002 issue of MRP. Allen will not be changing railroads, scales, themes, eras, etc. Only the part of the V&O being modeled will change. It occurs to me that the right buyer might convince him to allow the east-end of the V&O to remain as a part of the V&O system and be operated in conjunction with the new part now being planned. Otherwise, I assume Allen would take all V&O equipment and retain the rights to that road name, and the owner of the layout would need to come up with his and/or her own road name. Allen is as excited about the prospect of building a new railroad as I am, even though he is not changing horses as I did. He hopes tohave a new , um, basement selected before he and Sharon head for Arizona for three months beginning in January so he can do a lot of layout-specific planning while he's there. I'll be offline Tues.-Thurs., and I don't know much more than I've shared here, but if you are SERIOUSLY interested in buying their house and the layout, contact Allen in West Carrollton, Ohio, at 937-859-8532. Do NOT call to chat or to convince him that he should model a specific prototype -- none interest him more than the V&O -- or change scales or whatever. This is for serious buyer calls only, please. He does not have an active email account that I am aware of. Tony ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 15:38:18 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Wilmington DE Station Model Howdy Folks Just a quick note to let those of you as crazy as I am (in particular those who are building the Trainstuff Wilmington Station kit) know that I have placed a number of photos of the Wilminton DE PRR station (now Amtrak) in a photopoint album at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1312242&a=9746291 These photos were all taken just 2 weeks ago when I was in the area. I am working on getting an addition 30 or so kodachromes scanned so that I can put these detail shots up as well. Please feel free to pass the URL on. Well, back to filing out those %$@#^@#%^ windows (Just HOW MANY are there Earl?) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:22:15 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: [PRR] Altoona Pictures Greetings to the group. Took some pictures in Altoona on Saturday and thought I'd share them -- http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net/altoona and for the architecture fans -- http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net/fallingwater -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:12:38 EST Subject: [PRR] Return of the ALCo PA's Folks, As you well know the two ex-D&H (nee-ATSF) are now home here in the PNW, Albany, OR for restoration, by Doyle McCormick and his crew. I have been promising for some time that I would make the short 28 mile trek south from here in West Salem, OR and get some photos of them at rest and yesterday I did. With permission from the guys at the Willamette & Pacific RR I was capable of getting some very close photos of the sleeping Greyhounds. They are on blocks and the trucks are near by, with a primemover somewhat in between for what I believe will be the powered unit (Doyle's unit ... the NKP Bluebird once restored). One unit is to be restored in Santa Fe warbonnet and the other to be restored in NKP Bluebird and to be fully functioning ... perhaps old news. One thing I found most interesting was the massive size of these Greyhounds (PA's), even with the skin removed they are massive. There was evidence of work going on beside the unloading of parts gathered and stored inside for the ride home. One unit was complete with the steam generator equipment still intact. Both lacked all the cab details windshields, and most internal parts are gone. I did notice the air induction system was intact in both units, one had the cooling fans in good order the other (the one that was rolled) looked ajar. The one that had rolled actually doesn't look as bad as the photos show, if you consider that the damaged portion was mostly sheet metal and cosmetic, beside they can fabricate the repair from the other unit. YANKEE ingenuity! I can say this as there were two young fellows working on a WPRR GP9 that had the engineer's side of the cab removed in a switching mishaps and they claimed they were, "Gonna have her goni' in two or three more weekends, tops!" You know I actually believe them. As the project develops, which will likely slow way down with our wet weather setting in, I will make a few more trips down and up date the progress. And as a bonus there was an LIRR F unit parked near the wheel shops for what ever reason, the shop boys said with a big grin, "If ya bring 'er up here we'll have'er runnin' too, it just might take a few more week ends." Excuse me for repeating myself, but you know I do believe them... The WPRR is an interesting outfit and railfan easy on the eyes with the WPRR "Black Widow," GN, NP, SP&S and CB&Q restored wide vision cabooses. I have photos of the "Black Widow" from when Todd (ToddGP30) was out last from Baltimore, MD. Hey, Randy want to do a walk around article on a modern "Black Widow" and perhaps a modeling article? Sound Like FUN? Contact me separately. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 01:59:04 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR AFP-20 Article finally in print Hey Yuze Gize, I just sat down and did the Blueline at breakfast on Friday of last week for part 1 of my PRR AFP-20 (PA/B) article. I must say that I was impressed with Sandy Mewhorter's opening Photo layout, very well done. This article was a year in the making and part 1 will publish in December's issue of Mainline Modeler. The color center-spreads two page focus will be of the David R. Sweetland photo that was the inspiration for the entire project and a special thanks to him for the loan of the original slide for supporting my model, and a special thanks to the one on this list who put me in touch with Mr. Sweetland, you know who you are. Also a special thanks to Bill Volkmer who helped me with some technical info and when he couldn't answer my questions directly he always put me in touch with someone who knew the answer, Thanks Bill. Then thanks to Tom Gardner and Rob Schoenberg for allowing me to publish the construction diagrams from Rob's great website. They were an interesting addition, especially because they were Pennsy specific. A very special thanks to my big brother Ed Martin who challenged me to take this project beyond the norm, over the top, and "recreate the engine in the Sweetland photo." He pushed me to take the project beyond the bright and shinny stage and bring it to the realistic stage. Thanks Ed. Again read the article and realize that it is a tribute to all of you here and to a man that through some of histories most rewarding photography has inspired this single attempt at recreation in miniature, for I realize that we as PRR Historians/Modelers have to preserve our past in miniature as it is the only practical way of retrieving our dreams in more than one dimension. I will have the locomotives with me at the PROTOTYPE MODELERS meet "Prototype and how to Model It," on January 12th & 13th, 2001 in Cocoa Beach, FL. Next Locomotive project, PRR EF-15's (F-3 phase 2's) from a John D, Hahn photo in Enola, PA in 1954. Then some Shark's from a Bill Volkmer photo. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 03:58:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] About that tunnel in Cincinnati... I was looking at Chris Baer's "Chronology of the PRR" last night, in particular the 1900 file. Found the following: Sept 10, 1902 CL&N Rwy acquires property of Cincinnati Railway Tunnel Co., including roadbed from Cincinnati to Sharron and four-mile tunnel north of Cincinnati and right of way between Dodds and Waynesville, Ohio. Hm. "four-mile tunnel"? Rehor says 10,011 feet, not quite two miles. Mandatory group-centric content: PRR eventually acquired the CL&N. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lew Matt" Subject: [PRR] failed e-mail server Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 07:39:57 -0500 My incoming e-mail has been down for over a week. To correct the problem, I had to delete over 200 cumulativce incoming messages. If anyone was trying to reach me, Please e-mail me again. Sorry for this inconvenience, but thanks for your patience. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 04:55:08 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] The Youghiogheny branch again Look at eBay item 490100090. It's a YRR pass from 1893, showing a little map of the railroad. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Eichhorn@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:53:27 EST Subject: [PRR] Check out eBay item 490135220 - PENNSY POWER III --part1_df.c0ad27f.2739a9a7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, IIRC someone on the list was looking for "Pennsy Power III", and I was just wandering about on eBay and happened to see one listed. <Click here: eBay item 490135220 (Ends Nov-12-00 10:49:01 PST) - PENNSY POWER George --part1_df.c0ad27f.2739a9a7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys,

IIRC someone on the list was looking for "Pennsy Power III", and I was just
wandering about on eBay and happened to see one listed.

Click here: eBay item 490135220 (Ends Nov-12-00 10:49:01 PST) - PENNSY POWER
III TRAIN BOOK by ALVIN STAUFER

George --part1_df.c0ad27f.2739a9a7_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:14:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 4th Annual Modeling Needs Survey! -- From: Jerry Britton Time for the 4th Annual "Keystone Crossings/PRR-Talk" Modeling Needs Survey! Please partipate by listing up to three PRR products that you would like to see produced in each of the categories listed. Only the first three in each category will be considered; others will be discarded. If you know the PRR class, please include it. Respond by replying to this message, but change the recipient to me at "jerry@pennsyrr.com" (not to the list) and send by Tuesday, November 14. When submitting, please APPEND the subject line with your scale. I will summarize the results to the list as well as to several dozen model manufacturers. Thank you! YOUR SCALE: STEAM LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK / MOW ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: PASSENGER ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: STRUCTURES DESIRED: OTHER DESIRED: --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 15:20:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's List, Just thought I would throw this out in case someone was looking for the new release Proto 2000 2-8-8-2's for conversion to a Pennsy HH-1. A local hobby dealer just phoned me and was letting me know he has ample supply of UP and Virginian versions and 1 N&W I believe he said. Blow out prices! The UP and Virgnian at $215.00 and a little more for the N&W. Ask him about his prices on the Atlas GP's also. He can be reached at 724-942-2557. Ask for John in the Train Dept. Have fun....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 15:35:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's From: Jerry Britton On 11/7/00 3:20 PM, Gary Mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > Just thought I would throw this out in case someone was looking for > the new release Proto 2000 2-8-8-2's for conversion to a Pennsy HH-1. A > local hobby dealer just phoned me and was letting me know he has ample > supply of UP and Virginian versions and 1 N&W I believe he said. Blow > out prices! The UP and Virgnian at $215.00 and a little more for the > N&W. Ask him about his prices on the Atlas GP's also. He can be reached > at 724-942-2557. Ask for John in the Train Dept. Have fun....Gary > I can concur with Gary's comment... The actual N&W version will be very hard to find in a few more days. Most distributors (that supply retailers) are already out. However, there seem to be ample supplies of the UP and Virginian versions. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:57:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] 1/4 Size PRR Bell List, Does anyone have any additional information other than what I am about to post on the 1/4 size PRR Bells that were produced years ago? I used to have a newspaper clipping and a letter from the daughter whos Father used to produce these Bells. What I remember is in the 1960's or 1970's a retired PRR Employee from Altoona decided to produce these 1/4 size Bells. Himself and 3 or 4 other fellows from the Altoona, Johnstown and Holidaysburg area I belive, that produced the parts and were all shipped back to this fellows place and he would put them all together and sell them. There was a guy that made the wood display base, a Guy that made the Brass Bell, a Guy that made the cast cradle and a guy that made the engraved plaque. This is an excellent replica of a PRR Bell, but only 1/4 the size of a real PRR Bell. What I would like to know is how many were produced. I think the article noted only a handful were produced (at least up to that tme of the article). I recently acquired one while at the Gaithersburg Railroadiana Show. I recall the article stated that the Bells were marked with initials and a number. The Bell I purchased is marked 60. The intials appear to be a T stamped over a N M. By chance, does anyone on this list have one also? Or anyone from the Altoona area recall these Bells. Any additional info is appreciated. Until then I will continue to look for the article and letter which mayl explain more. Thanks Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:07:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's List, Caboose Hobbies, , has one N&W 2-8-8-2 left. UP locos are gone but the Virginian loco is in ample supply. The Proto 2000 Heritage engine's performance is identical to that of the first run -- the high water mark in non-brass, rtr engines. It does not get any better than this!! With all the talk in the Sept./Oct. time frame about a good Pennsy T-1in HO, or any other Pennsy steamer, is anyone interested in getting a campaign going to persuade Life Like to consider it. The T-1 is nice, but would go for an E-6, or a J, S, or Q class engine. Evan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:27:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's Even, Wishful thinking on a Proto T-1. I don't see that ever happening. Just because it is a one road loco. Proto seems to only produce a loco that will cover 5 or 6 roadnames so they recover their tooling costs ie: the usra 2-8-8-2 and the usra 0-8-0. The diesels speek for themselves. Now, save up your money for the next Proto steamer release. It was a rumor even before the 0-8-0 was anounced but it seems to be a go that Proto will produce the famous Lima Superpower 2-8-4's. Once again a multi road loco ie: NKP, Pere Marqutte, Virginan, C&O and possibly Erie? No public announcent from LifeLike yet but an MR employee mentioned it too. My guess for future Proto releases are USRA 0-6-0's, 2-6-6-2's, 4-6-6-4's and possibly some sort of small 2-8-0 with general appeal. As for Lifelike doing a specific road loco, Don't think so. But I sure would get my name on a list for a T-1 or a much needed J1!!!!!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:44:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's In a message dated 11/7/00 5:13:08 PM Central Standard Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << The T-1 is nice, but would go for an E-6, or a J, S, or Q class engine. >> I am continually amazed at what gets produced nowadays, but I suspect the big engines wouldn't make the cut, not because they were "one railroad", but because none of them survived to do the fantrip thing. Thus, the N&W J's and the SP Daylights in various forms make it(I admit it doesn't explain the NYC Niagara). With that logic, I would expect to see a Greenbriar or a Milwaukee 4-8-4 before the Pennsy big engines. However, what happened to the proposed Bowser import J? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:56:46 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] TT trailer update and question Hello folks.... By nature i'm not a Truc-train modeler(since its a bit later than what i model),but others do and might be interested in the info.I also feel that if theres a part of the Pennsy's equipment, documents or part of its operations that can be saved,sharing this info is helpful. I got a chance to go by where the old Truc-train trailers are today(not the one in the junk yard, but two,much older ones.) Anyway there still there. I believe both are former PRR trailers as i found this number on the back doors of the newer one..... PRRZ 250095 Can anyone trace the number and find out what it was? Both are older than the one i found in the junk yard. The ribbing on the sides of the numbered trailer is much closer(perhaps 3-4 inches apart) and may be a 34 footer.Its red paint is still on it, although it had been given another coat of something else(which has faded off mostly). The oldest one has the distinctive band on the side,but i haven't been able to see if it has a side door or not. Its a little shorter that the other one,so it may be a 28 footer.Also its more heavily built that the other one and may have a rounded front. I still haven't located the owner yet. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 19:04:22 EST Bob, Group, I had a e-mail conversation with Lee English, Bowser The Bowser J is on hold for the moment, No reason given. Thanks Sam >From: Bobspf@aol.com >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] Proto 2-8-8-2's >Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:44:55 EST > >In a message dated 11/7/00 5:13:08 PM Central Standard Time, >RDG2124@aol.com >writes: > ><< The T-1 is nice, but would go > for an E-6, or a J, S, or Q class engine. >> > >I am continually amazed at what gets produced nowadays, but I suspect the >big >engines wouldn't make the cut, not because they were "one railroad", but >because none of them survived to do the fantrip thing. Thus, the N&W J's >and >the SP Daylights in various forms make it(I admit it doesn't explain the >NYC >Niagara). With that logic, I would expect to see a Greenbriar or a >Milwaukee 4-8-4 before the Pennsy big engines. However, what happened to >the >proposed Bowser import J? > >Bob Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:10:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] unfinished tunnel in Cincinnati? In a message dated 11/4/2000 12:20:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > < --- Derrick J Brashear wrote: > > Does anyone know anything about the Deer Creek > > tunnel? (over and above > > this: http://web.utk.edu/~snake1/tunnels/penn.html) > > > From: > > The Nickel Plate Story > John A. Rehor > Kalmbach > 1965 > (BIG SNIP of the quotes from Rehor).... Additional information on the Walnut Hill tunnel/rail lines can be found in Carl W. Condit, , Columbus, Ohio State University Press, 1977; the profile illustration from Rehor is copied, and augmented by surface maps. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:53:25 -0500 Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Stuff For Sale On eBay From: Jerry Britton FWIW, I just posted a number of HO scale items (PRR and Reading) on eBay. Take a look if you are interested...or hit delete! http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&us erid=keystonecrossings&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:12:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Wilmington Station List - For those of you who have an interest we have just posted a scan of the front wall for the Clock Tower building on our website www.trainstuffllc.com on the Web Specials page. Scroll down past the scans of the first building. We sincerely hope that our efforts will please historians as well as model makers as Earl Hackett has really tried to capture every detail. Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 17:34:37 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] About that tunnel in Cincinnati... Bob, There were two tunnels through Walnut Hill, the lower longer (10,000-foot) one on which construction began in the 1850s and never used and the higher, shorter (3,500-foot) one completed in the 1870s and used by the CL&N. The Tube's small dimensions and, later, and extremely sharp curve connecting the northern end of this minor Cincinnati-Dayton line (The Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati Railroad & Terminal Co.) restricted the a size of motive power on line line built as a narrow gauge line in the 1870s and 1880s. The largest steam locomotive permitted on the line were the H-10 2-8-0 Consolidations. After dieselization, it was primarily GP7s and GP9s after the Fairbanks-Morse H-10-44s, H-12-44s and H-20-44s assigned to Xenia, Dayton and Cincinnati wore out. Tom V. In a message dated Tue, 7 Nov 2000 7:03:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, robert netzlof writes: << I was looking at Chris Baer's "Chronology of the PRR" last night, in particular the 1900 file. Found the following: Sept 10, 1902 CL&N Rwy acquires property of Cincinnati Railway Tunnel Co., including roadbed from Cincinnati to Sharron and four-mile tunnel north of Cincinnati and right of way between Dodds and Waynesville, Ohio. Hm. "four-mile tunnel"? Rehor says 10,011 feet, not quite two miles. Mandatory group-centric content: PRR eventually acquired the CL&N. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:23:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Test msg. Mail has not been getting out for an error. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 04:18:14 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] The Youghiogheny Branch yet again From: History of the County of Westmoreland George Dallas Albert L. H. Everts & Co. Philadelphia 1882 reprinted by Westmoreland County Historical Society Greensburg 1983? "Penn Gas Coal Company was organized as a corporation in 1857, and its first mine opened at Penn Station... The fourth mine is Shaft #2, one mile south of Irwin, on the Youghiogheny Railroad ... This railroad from Irwin to intersect the Pittsburgh Division of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad at Sewickley was built in 1873 by this company, which still owns and operates it. The fifth mine, Shaft #3, at Marchand's Station, on the Youghiogheny Railroad, is not now in operation. "The sixth mine, Youghiogheny #4, is at the junction of the Youghiogheny and Baltimore and Ohio Railroads, is a drift, and employs 250 men. ... The annual product of this company is over 500,000 tons of coal chiefly shipped to the Eastern markets, and for gas-coal purposes exclusively, save for what is used by its railroad." I think it was customary in those days to measure coal in tons of 2200 pounds ("gross" or "long" ton). Thus the 500,000 tons becomes 550,000 tons in current practice. Given today's technology, the whole output of that company would amount to one 100-car train per week, more or less, depending on just how much was consumed by "its railroad". ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 12:37:03 EST Group, Can anyone tell me boiler length & Diameter for the M1 and the N2's Thanks Sam _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 13:23:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers Sam, I dug this info out of an old Keystone issue. The M1 M1a M1b Boiler front was 88 1/2" round. The N2 and N2sa was 89 1/4" round. Info on the lengths of the boilers will have to be found somewhere else. Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:10:08 EST Gary, Group. Gary is right on the money. I have compared the 2 boilers without measurement, and they look very similar in size but is bowser correct ??? Thanks Sam >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >To: svastano@hotmail.com (Sam Vastano) >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 12:43:20 -0500 (EST) > >Sam > > I can dig up the boiler diameters for the M1 and the N2 Class. Maybe >the M1 length. I am busy decaling right now but within 2 hours I can >probably find something for you. > Looks like you are thinking of using a Bowser M1 Boiler on the 2-10-2 >chassis to make an N2sa eh!...Gary > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> >http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 >and...... >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "taylorsouthwood" Subject: [PRR] Paint Match For PK2 Loco's Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:57:17 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04AE3.76B85F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am wanting to add the antenna system to a set of PA-1 and E-8 = locomotives. Can anyone tell me which brand and color of paint match the = Tuscan red Life Like applies to there models. Thanks in advance to any = replies. Mark ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04AE3.76B85F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am wanting to add the antenna system = to a set of=20 PA-1 and E-8 locomotives. Can anyone tell me which brand and color of = paint=20 match the Tuscan red Life Like applies to there models. Thanks in = advance to any=20 replies.  Mark
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04AE3.76B85F40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:01:14 EST Hank, Gary, Thank you very much! Sam >From: bubbles@visi.net >To: "Sam Vastano" >Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR M1& N2 Boilers >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:05:31 -0500 (EST) > > > Hello Sam.... > > I have a copy of Stauffer's "Pennsylvania Railroad > Steam and Electric Locomotive Diagrams" here. > It is basically a book with reduced size copies > of PRR motive power dept. drawings of varius > locomotive classes. > > For the M-1 it lists the following.... > > 41' 11 11/16" from the bottom and back of the firebox > to the center of the stack. From the stack to the front > of the smokebox is 3' 3 1/2". Steam dome to stack measurement > is 18'9". Third boiler course (at steam dome)diameter is 96". > At boiler front is 88 1/2" in diameter. > For the M-1a it lists... > > 42' 6 11/16" from the bottom and back of the firebox > to the center of the stack. From the stack to the front > of the smokebox is 2' 9 1/2". > Measurement from the center of the steam dome to the > center of the stack is 19'4". Third boiler course diamter > is 96". At boiler front is 88 1/2"in diameter. > > For the N-2sa it lists... > > 42' 4 15/16" from the bottom and back of the firebox > to the center of the stack. From the stack to the front > of the smokebox is 3' 7 1/16". Measurement from the center > of the steam dome to the center of the stack is 22'8". > Third boiler course is 100 1/4" in diameter. At boiler > front is 89 1/4" in diameter. > > BTW....height for the M-1a is 15'6",for the N-2sa is > 15'9". I take all boiler diameters to be inside. > This should help some. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:05:39 -0500 From: demcneil Subject: [PRR] M1 Boiler length Gents, >From copies of 1930 PRR drawings by John Dill I have the following info regarding the M1 class boilers: Class M1 overall length from smoke box face flange to lower rear of the back boiler head 45' 3-3/16" Class M1a M1b " " " " 44' 9-3/16" Class N2sa " " " " 46' 0" Dimensions for Class N2s were not available to me Regards to all, Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:55:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PSA - RF16A Freight Sharks From: Jerry Britton PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: E-R Models has begun shipment on another run of HO scale Baldwin RF16A freight "sharks" in PRR livery. Two more road numbers in DGLE five-stripe (four #'s to date) and two more road numbers in DGLE single-stripe (six #'s to date) are shipping. B units are coming, but not yet. N scale AB sets are due October 2001. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:09:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Paint Match For PK2 Loco's Mark, You didn't state which colors you have. Both Locos were released in DGLE and Tuscan I believe. Anyway, you should probably have 3 colors on hand as well as thinner. Scalecoat Tuscan, Scalecoat "Brunswick" and Scalecoat Black. I assume you will be brushing the paint on? Use small mixing cups to mix your colors. That is what I did when I mounted antenna to prepainted shells. Just a dab of Black mixed with either the Tuscan or Brunswick gave me the color match I was looking for. Straight out of the bottle the colors are close, but you can get closer with experimentation. If you have an air brush you can blend the color in on the factory painted shell too. Just watch the over spray on the windows. Sprying Dullcoat on afterwards tones down the shiney finish of the Scalecoat paint too. Weatherng helps blend everything together as well. Thats what I did....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:02:15 EST Subject: [PRR] Stock Cars, K-9, question... Fellow SPFers, I have a question regarding the K-9 Stock cars. I am beginning to believe that the Pennsylvania R.R. removed the screen on their K-9 cars beginning in the mid 1960s. The cars I refer to are generally K-9 or K-9B and have the "black" tarred roof and simplified modern paint scheme (gothic PRR and the car number only). I do not claim all were done in this way. I am trying to determine if indeed this is the case or am I seeing just what I want to see? I offer the following photos for reference: PRR COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT, VOL. 2 by Ian S. Fischer Page #60, car #131236, March 1971 Page #61, car #131288, November 1965 Page #62, car #130082 & #131248, November 1965 RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN, JANUARY 1993 "THE LAST STAND OF STOCK CARS IN THE EAST" by Richard Burg Page #101, car #130037, 1968 Page #105, car #131075, 1969 Page #105, car #131269, 1965 (had silver roof and older paint scheme) Now I can site more references of cars that do have screening but that's not the question. The question is, was there a change at some point to no screening? Thank you all in advance for you input. Ed Martin ...a graduate of the Joe Jack School of Driving ...member of the gang of two ...banned from NMRA events by Ed Hall Director, Cajon Div., PSR, NMRA ...member of the outlawed Martin Gang ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:37:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PSA: ECW 70' Core Kit From: Jerry Britton PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT... Eastern Car Works has shipped a new 70' Head End Car Core Kit. Now all we need are car sides!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] Paint Match For PK2 Loco's Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 18:17:01 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C04B42.6BDF60A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark--Although Gary's suggestion is the best (remember to let the = Scalecoat dry for a few days), you also can obtain good results with = Modelflex PRR Maroon. Then weather--sparingly--with very thin Floquil = Grime and Grimey Black. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL(not anywhere near Palm Beach) ------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C04B42.6BDF60A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark--Although Gary's suggestion is the = best=20 (remember to let the Scalecoat dry for a few days), you also can obtain = good=20 results with Modelflex PRR Maroon.  Then weather--sparingly--with = very thin=20 Floquil Grime and Grimey Black.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL(not anywhere near Palm=20 Beach)
------=_NextPart_000_00D8_01C04B42.6BDF60A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:20:10 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Paint Match Life Like... "Steve Hoxie" writes: << Mark--Although Gary's suggestion is the best(remember to let the Scalecoat dry for a few days), you also can obtain good results with Modelflex PRR Maroon. Then weather--sparingly--with very thin Floquil Grime and Grimey Black.>> I think Steve must be think of the E units when he say "weather--sparingly--". 3^) If you are doing the ALCo PA/B's I would say weather accordingly... 3^) Those babies began spitting oil like a dragon even after their final shoppings in the mid/late 50's when the turbo-super-chargers were replaced. I have looked at some many photos of those "Graceful Greyhounds" I could tell you what year it was from the amount of dirt and oil spewing out of the generator exhaust vent (which is missing on the Life Like model). If you can appreciate a well used AFP-20 wait till the aricle comes out in December's issue of Mainline Modeler. YUCK! But don't forget to run an PB unit between your E8's, they were in that service. <> Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PSA: ECW 70' Core Kit Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:04:30 -0700 Jerry, What scale is this? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: [PRR] PSA: ECW 70' Core Kit > PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT... > > Eastern Car Works has shipped a new 70' Head End Car Core Kit. Now all we > need are car sides!!!! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:23:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] X-29 List, I am going on a little search Sunday for a reportedly spotting of an x-PRR X-29. It is said to still have steam lines attached. So this one must have seen service as an REA car. I don't know any details yet as to what color the car is (I am assuming MOW Yellow). Nor do I know what type trucks the car has. Will take notes when we find it. The local NRHS may look into obtaining it if possible and if indeed it is an X-29. Does anyone know of any of these cars (REA Versions) that is in a museum restored to Ball Keystone and REA Lettering? More tomorrow....Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] neww caboose pictures Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:02:57 -0500 Y'all, I have uploaded several new model pictures to my Photopoint albums a) NEW PICTURES uploaded 11-11-00 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=9889259 . . . includes PRR, Conrail, and N&W (ex-WAB) cabooses Models: PRR http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=1594599 . . . includes PRR diesels, freight cars, and cabooses Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=205020 Over 65,000 visitors and more than 1200 pictures and growing . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:13:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 Gary, Yes, #9495 at the Valley RR Museum, here is the address: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=http://gelwood.railfan .net/other/prr/prr-xm-9495.jpg&fr= >From the photo you can't tell if the steam lines are still intact. This is certainly not the only car remaining. My good friends Mark Kerlick and Mike Bradley shot a former PC tool car a couple years ago and it was very much complete and still in service with Conrail. I am using their slides to reconfigure my Red Caboose cars. Ed Martin...a graduate of the Joe Jack School of Driving ...member of the gang of two ...banned from NMRA events by Ed Hall, Director, Cajon Div.,PSR, NMRA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:56:12 EST Subject: [PRR] RS-1's --part1_9d.cfbe975.274025ac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know where these were used geographically? Where was the maintenance done? How many around Philadelphia? thanks. --part1_9d.cfbe975.274025ac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know where these were used geographically?  Where was the maintenance
done?  How many around Philadelphia?  thanks. --part1_9d.cfbe975.274025ac_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:18:46 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Bye & new address Hi, I will sign off the PRR List for a while today as I will move from Leadville, Colorado, to Cortez, Colorado, tomorrow or Tuesday. Cabin car discussions can continue at my NEW e-mail address: . Cheers, Roger -- Roger Kirkpatrick, as of 13 Nov. 2000: , Cortez, CO. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Re RS1's Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:32:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C04CDF.4B7746E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to the Withers Book they were allocated to the East end of the = system and were concentrated in the New York & Philaselphia areas. Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C04CDF.4B7746E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to the Withers Book they were = allocated=20 to the East end of the system and were concentrated in the New York = &=20 Philaselphia areas.
 
Patrick Grace
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C04CDF.4B7746E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:14:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 Well, after a little searching and then figureing how to get into the yard, we found the X-29 today. Actually we found 3. One is still wearing PC Yellow colors and the other 2 are in Conrail Gray MOW colors. Of the 3, the yellow one has all parts remaining unaltered. The other 2 has the end ladders cut off half way so employees could not get to the roof. However, rust wise the yellow one is the least desireable one. Along the bottom side is rusted thru in places as is parts of the roof. This one also retains all of the steam line fittings too! The other 2 has had them cut off. All 3 cars have normal bettebdorf trucks I guess. All friction bearing. Did these cars have roller bearings when used in REA service? I took phtos of all three. Off hand I do not remember the PC/CR numbers except one of the Gray cars appear to be PRR 4965. Now to see if NS is willing to donate one to the local chapter. It looks like the 3 cars are used for minor storage of buckets of ??? All for now, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] LA area listers? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 100 19:03:26 -0500 (EST) Anyone on this list in the Los Angeles area? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] LA area listers? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:20:46 -0800 > Anyone on this list in the Los Angeles area? Close -- Anaheim, in north Orange County just south of LA. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Rail marking, USS vs. Carnegie A while ago somebody wondered if rails marked "Carnegie" were made after formation of United States Steel. Go look at: http://www.trainweb.org/oldmainline/oml/078stdra.jpg Picture of a rail marked USS CARNEGIE, dated 1951. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:15:23 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Mittner To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 > All 3 cars have normal bettebdorf trucks I guess. All friction bearing. Gary and all...there ain't no such thing as "friction" bearings. This little bit of friction fiction was invented by the good folks at Timken in order to bad mouth conventional journal bearings. In truth, a "friction bearing" is really an oxymoron. One more item, while there was such a thing as a "Bettendorf" truck, it was (like a Crescent wrench (tm)) a trade name for the Bettendorf company, which was merged into the Barber company in 1942. The correct name for this truck is the AAR double-truss plankless truck (although I am willing to bet that there were some built that still used spring planks). > Did these cars have roller bearings when used in REA service? Don't think so...if the PRR was like other railroads (I know this is true for the SP) all they did was replace the axles and wheelsets with high speed axles and wheels. All the photos I've seen of these cars showed them with the standard PRR freight truck just like the zillions of other X-29's out there in service. I'm not suprised to hear about the rust...given their age and construction it is amazing that anything even remotely resembling a boxcar still exists! Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:57:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RS-1's In a message dated 11/12/00 12:04:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: I have a slide of some used up here in Buffalo in the 60's. I also know that Pennsy Diesel Years vol 1 has a roster in the back by Regions and date. Also the Pennsy diesel books by Withers had Rosters. However those books are at my new house and I am still at the old Brian C > Anybody know where these were used geographically? Where was the maintenance > > done? How many around Philadelphia? thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:15:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] RS-1's I have the Withers RS Series Book handy. Here is a rundown of where the locos were assigned in both 1957 and 1960. RS1 #'s 5619-5624--- NY Region. 5625-5630---Northern Reg. 5631-5636---Lake Region 5637-5638---Northern Reg. 5639-5640--NY Region 5906---------Cheasapeake Reg. 8485-8486--Northern Region 8857-8858--NY Region All made it into PC except for 5628 (retired 1965). All others renumbered in 1966-67......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] Steam Dates Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:58:02 -0800 I found a picture of B6sb #6379 in Atlantic City. Does anyone know how long this was on the roster? Did it stay in the Atlantic City area? Thanks, Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: RE: [PRR] Steam Dates Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 01:13:12 -0500 Gene and All, My 1955 roster shows this Loco to be listed in the Atlantic region. However, it would appear that in 1956 the Atlantic region was merged into the Philadelphia region and 6379 was not on it. Bill -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gene Deimling Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 10:58 PM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Steam Dates I found a picture of B6sb #6379 in Atlantic City. Does anyone know how long this was on the roster? Did it stay in the Atlantic City area? Thanks, Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 06:29:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Society BoD Report From: Jerry Britton At yesterdays meeting of the Northern Central Chapter of the PRRT&HS, a report was given of the previous day's Board of Directors meeting. This is NOT an official report, but the following was reported: 1. In an effort to improve communication, the board, through Al Buchan and Bill Morlitz, will use the Society's web site and publish BoD meetings minutes, as well as report actions taken by the board between meetings. [Excellent move!] 2. Walt Keely has been relieved of responsibility for the archives at Lewistown. He will continue in his role to manage the facility itself. Bob Johnson will be taking over the archives. They hope to enlist Joe Acri, an NCC member, to assist. Joe works at the state archives in Harrisburg and would be a tremendous asset to this project. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Rail marking, USS vs. Carnegie Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:30:00 -0500 List: I believe that the "Carnegie" stamped on the rail side designated the USS mill or plant. I am not certain of the exact location, but "USS Carnegie" was located in Pennsylvania (probably near Pittsburgh). "USS Illinois" was the plant on the Calumet plant on the southeast side of Chicago, adjacent to the Indiana/Illinois state line. Lastly, "USS Lackawanna" was located in New York State somewhere. I am not 100 percent certain about this, fellow Listers. So please jump in to confirm, clarify, or rebutt! Ted Andrews - a "railfan" in more ways than one!! -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 7:52 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Rail marking, USS vs. Carnegie A while ago somebody wondered if rails marked "Carnegie" were made after formation of United States Steel. Go look at: http://www.trainweb.org/oldmainline/oml/078stdra.jpg Picture of a rail marked USS CARNEGIE, dated 1951. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:54:12 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Modeling Survey -- Still Time To Vote! From: Jerry Britton Still time to return your ballot for our 4th Annual Modeling Needs Assessment Survey. Looks like our largest participation to date! If you need a fresh copy of the ballot, let me know, I'll send one direct. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:57:15 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail marking, USS vs. Carnegie Could this mean U-nited S-tates S-teel Carnegie works, assuming there was such a plant? From the USS web site: "Primary steel operations include the Gary (Indiana) Works, the Fairfield (Alabama) Works near Birmingham, and the Mon Valley Works, which includes the Edgar Thomson [ obligatory PRR content!] steelmaking and Irvin finishing operations on the Monongahela River near Pittsburgh. In addition, U. S. Steel operates a sheet and tin finishing plant at the Fairless Works near Philadelphia. U. S. Steel's coke production takes place at the Clairton Works - also on the Monongahela River - and at Gary Works." I could find reference to making RR rail. The Products" part of the site was unavailable JimMcDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:32:18 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 Gary, I have never heard of X-29s with roller bearings, so I am not surprised your find had solid bearings. Are you sure they were AAR std trucks and not PRR 2D-F8s or 2D-F12s? This would be far more likely. The 2D-F8 can be distinguished by the diagonal member from the journal to the bottom of the spring housing not quite going all the way to the bottom of the spring housing. This left the spring housing "protruding" down below the rest of the side frame. The 2D-F12 looks the same but has one coil spring and one leaf spring. This was to avoid harmonic amplification by having two springs with different natural frequencies. In HO gauge Bowser makes both kinds of trucks. The 2D-F12s appear under their X31s and X32s amd the 2D-F8s under their GS gons and F30 flatcars. Kadee also makes a 2D-F8 as does Red Caboose for their X29 kits. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Gary Mittner wrote: > > Well, after a little searching and then figureing how to get into the > yard, we found the X-29 today. Actually we found 3. One is still wearing > PC Yellow colors and the other 2 are in Conrail Gray MOW colors. Of the > 3, the yellow one has all parts remaining unaltered. The other 2 has the > end ladders cut off half way so employees could not get to the roof. > However, rust wise the yellow one is the least desireable one. Along the > bottom side is rusted thru in places as is parts of the roof. This one > also retains all of the steam line fittings too! The other 2 has had > them cut off. All 3 cars have normal bettebdorf trucks I guess. All > friction bearing. Did these cars have roller bearings when used in REA > service? > I took phtos of all three. Off hand I do not remember the PC/CR > numbers except one of the Gray cars appear to be PRR 4965. > Now to see if NS is willing to donate one to the local chapter. It > looks like the 3 cars are used for minor storage of buckets of ??? All > for now, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] LA area listers? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:05:11 -0800 home: Long Beach work: downtown LA Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: Matthew J. Brown [mailto:morven@byz.org] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:21 PM To: Mark Bej; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] LA area listers? > Anyone on this list in the Los Angeles area? Close -- Anaheim, in north Orange County just south of LA. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:08:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 Andy, I can't be sure but I think I would have noticed those springs. That is why I posted them as "bettendorf" becuase they look like trucks found on the average eeryday older Boxcar....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:43:50 -0500 From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] Rail marking, USS vs. Carnegie --On Monday, November 13, 2000 08:30:00 AM -0500 "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > List: > > I believe that the "Carnegie" stamped on the rail side designated the USS > mill or plant. I am not certain of the exact location, but "USS Carnegie" > was located in Pennsylvania (probably near Pittsburgh). "USS Illinois" was > the plant on the Calumet plant on the southeast side of Chicago, adjacent > to the Indiana/Illinois state line. Lastly, "USS Lackawanna" was located > in New York State somewhere. > Some book I have somewhere reported rails reading CI-ET, which they expanded to "Carnegie-Illinois, Edgar Thomson", if that's true presumably pre-USS rails weren't Edgar Thomson. Maybe the next time I'm at my parents I can find the book. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:56:06 -0500 Subject: [PRR] REA B-60 vs. X-29 From: Jerry Britton Approximately when did the PRR start favoring the use of X-29's for mail storage over the B-60's? The 1954 "New York Division Makeup of Trains" specifies mostly B-60's, but also many "MS-60's" and occasionally an "X-29". Am I correct in recalling that an MS-60 could be filled by an X-29 or a B-60, as available? The few photos I have dated from the early-1950's tend to show mostly B-60's. There aren't a ton of videos that specify 1954...just "in the fifty's". Videos from the sixties show many X-29's. Interestingly, there is a video of Harrisburg ("Under the Catenary", I think) that shows a westbound passenger train coming off the CV bridge into the station. It clearly has a "Merchandise Service" car at head-end!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: [PRR] PRR Catenary Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:07:11 -0800 Does anyone know anything about the PRR catenary pictured on the cover of the 2001 Walthers Catalog? (http://www.walthers.com/graphics/frontmidcats.jpg) Are the components available as a product? Or is this the work of an individual just for this picture? It sure is convincing and seems accurate down to the insulators. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:05:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Catenary From: Jerry Britton On 11/13/00 2:07 PM, John Cooper (johncoop@microsoft.com) wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the PRR catenary pictured on the cover of > the 2001 Walthers Catalog? > (http://www.walthers.com/graphics/frontmidcats.jpg) Are the components > available as a product? Or is this the work of an individual just for this > picture? It sure is convincing and seems accurate down to the insulators. > Model Memories makes very accurate PRR catenary in HO scale. Not sure if that's what is shown, but they offer two and four-track versions, as well as all the wire-hanging components. It's not cheap, given the quantities one tends to need. But if you're interested, let me know. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:15:47 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Catenary >Does anyone know anything about the PRR catenary pictured on the cover of >the 2001 Walthers Catalog? >(http://www.walthers.com/graphics/frontmidcats.jpg) Are the components >available as a product? Or is this the work of an individual just for this >picture? It sure is convincing and seems accurate down to the insulators. > >John > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". John, Ken Patterson took the picture (as usual - he does NICE work), and he is somewhere on-line (in one of the many groups I'm in). Knowing Ken, he built, painted etc everything except the Botchman Acela trainset. Also knowing Ken, he did not do it from scratch...to me it looks like the Model Memories stuff... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 15:38:47 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stock Cars, K-9, question... Guys, In researching my brothers question regard the PRR K9/K9B Stock cars I have aslo found evidence that the screening was removed from between the rub-rails and the car sides. I have found evidence of the same thing in a couple photos I have found, one photo shown in PC markings (PC BI-Annual) on the hump at Conway, the other a photo in Pennsy Power II in PRR marking in the late 60's in a train. Can anyone shed some light on when this conversion was made, AL B. can you shed some light on this? It would appear that this may have been an effort to reduce the labor in stam cleaning the cars. It appears as if bedding and feed may have been caught betwen the screening and the rub-rails as is evidence in a photo in PRR F&PE Vol.1. This would certainly hamper the speed of cleaning, but...? Also, has anyone pick up on the fact that the Bowser car seems to be missing a screened opening in the upper right hand corner of the car behind the ladders. I am not saying that the car is wrong but I can't find a photo of a car without this extra opening. Perhaps the builders photo would anwser the question? Any help would be appreciated. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:18:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] New 90F82 Tender Modelers, As many of you may know, Trainstuff LLC, announced earlier this year that a new project would be in the works. This new project, which is the PRR 90F82 Class Tender is nearing completion. Not sure how close it is to being released but today I recieved a few pre-production Tender Shells. Just the tender shells mind you, but from what I am looking at, Very Good!!!!. The scale thickness of the coal bunker side sheets and the scale size rivits are very nice. Rivit pattern is excellent as well. I didn't get my scale rule out yet but compared to the Brass PFM I1s Tender I have here, the dimensions match nearly identical. This is just the Tender Shell I have here, no add on detailing was present, all those items comes with the kit when it is released. It looks like John and Dayna, members of these lists, did their homework and appears this Tender will be a success. Lets hope so and maybe in the future we can get other PRR related items released in a quality Resin Kit. If you didn't order any of these craftsman kits yet, I highly recommend doing so. It will make an excellent Tender for the many Bowser I1's out there. I have plans on doing other projects with it as well. Don't miss out on em......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:34:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Dates Bill, Gene and All, I have #6379 Sold for Scrap April, 1956*. *KEYSTONE STEAM & ELECTRIC, By William D. Edson Ed Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] New 90F82 Tender Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 06:58:58 EST Gary, How do we get in touch with trainstuff? I would like to order a couple. Thanks Sam >From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com, PRR-Modeling@egroups.com >Subject: [PRR] New 90F82 Tender >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:18:12 -0500 (EST) > >Modelers, > > As many of you may know, Trainstuff LLC, announced earlier this year >that a new project would be in the works. This new project, which is the >PRR 90F82 Class Tender is nearing completion. Not sure how close it is >to being released but today I recieved a few pre-production Tender >Shells. Just the tender shells mind you, but from what I am looking at, >Very Good!!!!. The scale thickness of the coal bunker side sheets and >the scale size rivits are very nice. Rivit pattern is excellent as well. >I didn't get my scale rule out yet but compared to the Brass PFM I1s >Tender I have here, the dimensions match nearly identical. This is just >the Tender Shell I have here, no add on detailing was present, all those >items comes with the kit when it is released. It looks like John and >Dayna, members of these lists, did their homework and appears this >Tender will be a success. Lets hope so and maybe in the future we can >get other PRR related items released in a quality Resin Kit. If you >didn't order any of these craftsman kits yet, I highly recommend doing >so. It will make an excellent Tender for the many Bowser I1's out there. >I have plans on doing other projects with it as well. Don't miss out on >em......Gary > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art >Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> >http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 >and...... >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 04:13:04 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A Partial Bibliography of CT1000's et al. (4th revision) Apologies to all, especially Bob Johnson who sent in several tasty morsels several weeks ago, and heard nothing back. I can only plead "the press of other matters". He writes that he has found a photocopy of the 1879 "List of Stations etc." and it clearly says "Form 76 - C. R." He had previously taken the pencilled 79 CR on a copy of the 1882 book to be an error. Not so. He also notes there was a book in 1878, but doesn't know the form number. A semi-anonymous eBidder on eBay bought a 1903 CT1000 and was kind enough to tell me that it's title page says it supercedes the edition of 1902. So, the list now reads: 1945 With an un-dated supplement, possibly in 1946 1923 1918 1915 1913 1911 ? Any others? 1903 added in this revision 1902 added in this revision 1901 1900 Form C. T. 1000 in and after 1900 1899 Form number not known ? Any others? 1895 Form C. R. 76 in and before 1895 ? Any others? 1891 ? Any others? 1888 1887 Form C. R. 76 in and after 1887 ? Any others? 1882 Form 76 - C. R. in and before 1882 changed in this revision ? Any others? 1879 Form 76 - C. R. in and after 1879 changed in this revision 1878 Form number not known added in this revision The 1879 book's title, "Instructions to Conductors Relating to Car Record Reports. Abbreviations to be Used in Reporting Cars, and Names and Numbers of Stations and Sidings" opens a possibility that "C. R." may have stood for "Conductor's Report". Note also that the recent editions are "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions etc.", while the earlier ones are "Instructions [...] with List of Stations and Sidings." A change in emphasis? Or just a change in style? It looks as if there was a new CT1000 (or equivalent) every year at least until 1903. By 1911, it had changed to every other year, then skipped 2 years (1916, 1917), skipped 4 years (1919-1922), then skipped 21 years (1924-1944). Then it died. Let us not forget the Long Island RR version, form C. R. 4, and the Pennsylvania Lines P. L. 506. I wonder, was there a PRSL version? Open questions: 1) There are still those ? indicating gaps where we don't know yet. 2) What "subset" books were published? 3) In what years? 4) How were they organized? (Remember, there's said to be a 1915 CT1000D for the Northern Div.) 5) I recall an eBay listing for a "List of Officers and Station Agents" for 1892. A list of station agents would almost have to be a list of stations. Where, if at all, does it fit into this? If the eBidder who bought the P. L. 506 is lurking on this list, please de-lurk and tell me what it says about what it superceded. My thanks to Bob Johnson, Paul Schopp, Pat McKinney, Dave Wartell, and Charlie the eBay eBidder for information received to date. Stay tuned. It's still "A _Partial_ Bibliography...". ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:23:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] New 90F82 Tender Sam, List Thanks for the note Sam. I should have included the contact info in my rewiew. Trainstuff (Dayna) can be reached at this email, DWa9975062@aol.com They also have a website. There are several early "scans" of the Tender there but they do not do it justice. Dayna is a member of this list so maybe she could post an update as to what all this kit will include and about when it will be ready......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:04:10 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser -- HO GLa or GLca? From: Jerry Britton On 11/14/00 10:02 AM, Lee English (bowser@csrlink.net) wrote: > The GLa or GLca HO which one?? > I can only make one as they are different lengths? > Lee English, of Bowser, has been working on plans to do a GL series car. He has narrowed his plans to do EITHER the GLa or the GLca, but not both. If you have a preference, please contact him direct. Please limit your feedback to the question at hand and do not abuse this opportunity by sound off on everything else you'd like to see! (Bowser will be among the manufacturers receiving a copy of the "4th Annual PRR-Talk Modeling Needs Assessment Survey" currently underway.) You might also include in your e-mail to him an indication of the numbers of cars you might be interested in. Ten people wanting 100 each fares better than 100 people wanting two each! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Re RS1's Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:32:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C04E60.EA884540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Withers book does not show any allocated to Pittsburg, I was doing = it from memory as I was not home at the time I sent my original mail, = however there are photos in the book of RS1's in Piladelphia Engine = Terminal in the mid 60's Patrick Grace www.aspects.net/~pgrace ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C04E60.EA884540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Withers book does not show any = allocated=20 to Pittsburg, I was doing it from memory as I was not home at the time I = sent my=20 original mail, however there are photos in the book of RS1's in = Piladelphia=20 Engine Terminal in the mid 60's
 
Patrick Grace
 
www.aspects.net/~pgrace
 
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C04E60.EA884540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New 90F82 Tender Gary and List - I would like to thank the Philadelphia Chapter of the PRRT&HS (of which I am a member) for picking up an error. And a special thanks to Jim Kelly for the drawings he recently sent and Gary Mittner for verifying it. The problem was not a big one but it will require a new mold. We are still waiting on the special resin that we want to use for this first run. It will be well worth the wait. Now here is where we stand on production scheduling. Our first priority is the packaging and shipping of building one of Wilmington. This thing is a monster and takes quite a bit of time to make sure everything is right and in the packaging. Second is the 90F82 tender which we are now reworking. And third is the MP54 which is coming along quite nicely. A lot of fine rivet detail, windows partially opened and many other things. For those of you who have already sent in your checks we thank you for your patience. If you couple the above schedule to the fact that we also cast for other companies we have a full plate. I will put up a tender scan of the revised tender as soon as it is complete. Those of you who wish to look at the old one and see if you can find the error you may do so on the website on the web specials page. When the kit is released it will be complete. Doghouse, underframe, couplers, trucks etc. Thanks again to those who have assisted in this project. Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:30:33 -0500 Subject: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report From: Jerry Britton I just spoke with Ivan Frantz, who got a call from a rather upset Dick Adams... Seems there was some in inaccuracy in my post yesterday about the Board of Directors meeting on Saturday. Some of it was either misunderstood or misreported at the meeting (Ivan's presentation) and some of it was apparently a matter of semantics (a recurring theme with the Society). I reported that Bob Johnson was taking over the archive project. That was incorrect. It is being proposed that Bob take over, but no formal arrangement has yet been made. The report about hoping to solicit Joe Acri was correct...it is proposed. Walt Keely will continue to have involvement with the new "proposed" archive committee. As reported, Walt will continue to oversee the property. Hope this clears things up a bit! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:39:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Re: 90F82 Tender List, If you visit Trainstuff LLC's webpage, you can find the scans of the tender on the web specials section. Keep in mind these are only scans, not photos. Poor as they are, the samples I have here show the deail much better. For instance the coal door detail is very crisp. Better than my Brass model. Don't pay attention to the dog house either. I believe the single man version will be included in the kit, not the 3 man sample mock up seen in the scan. Tender is nice and square as well. The scan shows it deformed. The marks on the tender top deck is where the details will mount, these are not the details themselves. Please view the scans. As Dayna mentioned there is an error. See who is the first to spot it and please post if you have a guess. Once the right guess is made I will confirm it. Have fun....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: Re: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:09:26 -0500 Doesn't matter who gets voted to the position as they can keep recounting the votes until they get what they want. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk" Cc: "Dick Adams" ; "Ivan Frantz" Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 5:30 PM Subject: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report > I just spoke with Ivan Frantz, who got a call from a rather upset Dick > Adams... > > Seems there was some in inaccuracy in my post yesterday about the Board of > Directors meeting on Saturday. Some of it was either misunderstood or > misreported at the meeting (Ivan's presentation) and some of it was > apparently a matter of semantics (a recurring theme with the Society). > > I reported that Bob Johnson was taking over the archive project. That was > incorrect. It is being proposed that Bob take over, but no formal > arrangement has yet been made. The report about hoping to solicit Joe Acri > was correct...it is proposed. Walt Keely will continue to have involvement > with the new "proposed" archive committee. > > As reported, Walt will continue to oversee the property. > > Hope this clears things up a bit! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:49:16 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report Jim, Be careful, Jim. This is one of the few places I don't worry about the meaning of overvote or chad. But they may not revote if it means they won't be outvoted. Tom V. "It's tough being Green.' ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Mark T. Evans" Subject: Re: [PRR] LA area listers? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:13:48 -0800 Yep. Anaheim Hills, CA (Near Yorba Linda). Mark T. Evans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bej" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:06 PM Subject: [PRR] LA area listers? > > Anyone on this list in the Los Angeles area? > > -- > Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Harold Good" Subject: Re: [PRR] LA area listers? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:23:30 -0800 Yes, Palm Springs. Harold Good ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bej" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 4:08 PM Subject: [PRR] LA area listers? > > Anyone on this list in the Los Angeles area? > > -- > Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:18:26 EST Subject: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOPS --part1_5f.cdca90d.27440342_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today, November 15, 2000, Norfolk Southern Corp. spokesperson Rudy Husband, in an interview on radio station WRTA (Altoona), announced the closing of the Hollidaysburg Car Shops, effective March 1, 2001. The Hollidaysburg Car Shops as you know are the former PRR SAMUEL REA SHOPS. The morning edition of the Altoona Mirror announced a probable major layoff at these shops for some 500 employes, but before the ink was dry, the broadcast media announced the closing. Mr. Husband discussed the issue live on a morning talk show with call-in questions. The bottom line cited was economics and cost effectiveness. Obviously, there is much discussion about lack of commitment to pre-merger agreements. Conversation during the broadcast interview offered "assurances" that Juniata Locomotive Shops will not be affected. The decision will be a major impact on the local employment picture. David Seidel Altoona PA PRRT&HS NRHS --part1_5f.cdca90d.27440342_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today, November 15, 2000, Norfolk Southern Corp. spokesperson Rudy Husband,
in an interview on radio station WRTA (Altoona), announced the closing of the
Hollidaysburg Car Shops, effective March 1, 2001.  The Hollidaysburg Car
Shops as you know are the former PRR SAMUEL REA SHOPS.

The morning edition of the Altoona Mirror announced a probable major layoff
at these shops for some 500 employes, but before the ink was dry, the
broadcast media announced the closing.  Mr. Husband discussed the issue live
on a morning talk show with call-in questions.  The bottom line cited was
economics and cost effectiveness.  Obviously, there is much discussion about
lack of commitment to pre-merger agreements.

Conversation during the broadcast interview offered "assurances" that Juniata
Locomotive Shops will not be affected.

The decision will be a major impact on the local employment picture.

David Seidel
Altoona PA
PRRT&HS
NRHS --part1_5f.cdca90d.27440342_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report Date: Wed, 15 Nov 100 10:55:21 -0500 (EST) I don't get it. Granted, I don't know most of the people involved, and I certainly don't know their personalities. But let's look at this: Jerry Britton scribit: > I reported that Bob Johnson was taking over the archive project. That was > incorrect. It is being proposed that Bob take over, but no formal > arrangement has yet been made. OK. So let's give this a "C" grade, just to assign something. > The report about hoping to solicit Joe Acri > was correct...it is proposed. OK, so an "A" on that point. > Walt Keely will continue to have involvement > with the new "proposed" archive committee. Don't know if this was in the original post, so no grade. > As reported, Walt will continue to oversee the property. And another "A" on this point. So the overall GPA is (4.0+4.0+2.0)/3 = 3.33, a B+, the entire 0.7 point difference hinging on the presence or absence of the word "proposed". > I just spoke with Ivan Frantz, who got a call from a rather upset Dick > Adams... Again I reiterate (so I guess I rereiterate ... :-) ) ... is 0.7 points worth getting "rather upset" about? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:16:02 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: 90F82 Tender Gary wrote: > If you visit Trainstuff LLC's webpage, you can find the scans of the >tender on the web specials section. Keep in mind these are only scans, >not photos. Poor as they are, the samples I have here show the deail >much better. For instance the coal door detail is very crisp. Better >than my Brass model. Don't pay attention to the dog house either. I >believe the single man version will be included in the kit, not the 3 >man sample mock up seen in the scan. Tender is nice and square as well. >The scan shows it deformed. The marks on the tender top deck is where >the details will mount, these are not the details themselves. > Please view the scans. As Dayna mentioned there is an error. See who >is the first to spot it and please post if you have a guess. Once the >right guess is made I will confirm it. Have fun....Gary Geez, 'bout the only thing I can spot is that the slot in the left frame by the front truck is missing on the model. Note that photographic evidence indicates that the slot is not present on the right side in the prototype. Is that it? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 11:48:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: 90F82 Tender Bruce, I did not have the frame parts to look over so that is not the error in question. That slot can easily be placed in by the modeler. This error is an error, not a variation as to, ie: backup light or water hatch positions. I already had a private email with the correct answer. If no one else spots it, I won't tell what it is. Just kidding, I will post the boo boo tonight......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:36:40 EST Subject: [PRR] Centipedes --part1_64.863dc7b.274423a8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What color were the centipedes when built. I assume they were DGLE. Were they ever painted Tuscan? Thanks, Norm Bell --part1_64.863dc7b.274423a8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What color were the centipedes when built.  I assume they were DGLE.  Were
they ever painted Tuscan?  Thanks, Norm Bell --part1_64.863dc7b.274423a8_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Centipedes Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:52:41 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04F02.F0F21620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Norm: By the time PRR started using tuscan on passenger units the Centipedes = were reduced to helper service, so DGLE was the only color ever used. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NDBPRR@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: [PRR] Centipedes What color were the centipedes when built. I assume they were DGLE. = Were=20 they ever painted Tuscan? Thanks, Norm Bell=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04F02.F0F21620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Norm:
 
By the time PRR started using tuscan on passenger = units the=20 Centipedes were reduced to helper service, so DGLE was the only color = ever=20 used.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 NDBPRR@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, = 2000 12:36=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] Centipedes

What color were the centipedes when = built.  I=20 assume they were DGLE.  Were
they ever painted Tuscan? =  Thanks,=20 Norm Bell ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C04F02.F0F21620-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOPS Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:59:31 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C04F03.E5656EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having more or less gotten what it wants legislatively, and the prospect = of Congressional "gridlock" assured, NS no longer has any qualms about = poking "Bud" Schuster in the eye. Especially since the "Surf Board" has = a moratorium on mergers. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DWSNRHS@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Cc: cjb3@psu.edu=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:18 AM Subject: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOPS Today, November 15, 2000, Norfolk Southern Corp. spokesperson Rudy = Husband,=20 in an interview on radio station WRTA (Altoona), announced the closing = of the=20 Hollidaysburg Car Shops, effective March 1, 2001. The Hollidaysburg = Car=20 Shops as you know are the former PRR SAMUEL REA SHOPS.=20 The morning edition of the Altoona Mirror announced a probable major = layoff=20 at these shops for some 500 employes, but before the ink was dry, the=20 broadcast media announced the closing. Mr. Husband discussed the = issue live=20 on a morning talk show with call-in questions. The bottom line cited = was=20 economics and cost effectiveness. Obviously, there is much discussion = about=20 lack of commitment to pre-merger agreements.=20 Conversation during the broadcast interview offered "assurances" that = Juniata=20 Locomotive Shops will not be affected.=20 The decision will be a major impact on the local employment picture.=20 David Seidel=20 Altoona PA=20 PRRT&HS=20 NRHS=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C04F03.E5656EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Having more or less gotten what it wants = legislatively, and=20 the prospect of Congressional "gridlock" assured, NS no longer has any = qualms=20 about poking "Bud" Schuster in the eye.  Especially since the "Surf = Board"=20 has a moratorium on mergers.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DWSNRHS@aol.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, = 2000 10:18=20 AM
Subject: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG = CAR=20 SHOPS

Today, November 15, 2000, Norfolk = Southern Corp.=20 spokesperson Rudy Husband,
in an interview on radio station WRTA=20 (Altoona), announced the closing of the
Hollidaysburg Car Shops, = effective=20 March 1, 2001.  The Hollidaysburg Car
Shops as you know are = the=20 former PRR SAMUEL REA SHOPS.

The morning edition of the = Altoona Mirror=20 announced a probable major layoff
at these shops for some 500 = employes,=20 but before the ink was dry, the
broadcast media announced the = closing.=20  Mr. Husband discussed the issue live
on a morning talk show = with=20 call-in questions.  The bottom line cited was
economics and = cost=20 effectiveness.  Obviously, there is much discussion about =
lack of=20 commitment to pre-merger agreements.

Conversation during the = broadcast=20 interview offered "assurances" that Juniata
Locomotive Shops will = not be=20 affected.

The decision will be a major impact on the local = employment=20 picture.

David Seidel
Altoona PA
PRRT&HS =
NRHS=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C04F03.E5656EA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Lou Koch Subject: [PRR] Alco FA-1s Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:05:47 -0500 Can someone help me with a question I have on the eight Alco FA-1 units the PRR owned. Did they have train phones and if so where can I find a suitable picture so I can install them on a proto 2000 model I have? THANKS LOU ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:31:43 -0500 From: "William Lane Jr" Subject: [PRR] 90F82 Tender commnets Hi All, I read and delete many posts concerning new HO products since I am not an HO modeler. Whan I read the following post, I felt that I had to comment. Please do not take this as an attack on the writer, but the content of the message. Bruce, I did not have the frame parts to look over so that is not the error in question. That slot can easily be placed in by the modeler. This error is an error, not a variation as to, ie: backup light or water hatch positions. I already had a private email with the correct answer. If no one else spots it, I won't tell what it is. Just kidding, I will post the boo boo tonight......Gary When a new product is announced in this type of forum, comments, both positive and negative get spread very quickly. I do not know nor do I care what this possible error is. It may be a very insignificant flaw that you are the only one who would notice it. But announcing it to the world is doing the Manufacturer a huge disservice. IMHO, the prudent thing to do is to contact the manufacturer privately and bring it to their attention so that it may be corrected in a future run. If I read the previous posts correctly, the product in question is not even out officially, but was viewed early by a few people. The power of a premature review is immense. Please do so carefully. Thank You Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean Crookham Subject: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:43:48 -0800 Hi all, I'm looking for a good online or offline resource on the Q-2. Does anyone know where I might find something? Currently I've only found bits and pieces spread all over the net. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Sean Crookham ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:56:45 -0500 Sean: There is the NJ International "Power Series" book on the Q-2. Also, there are references in Pennsy Power I, II, and III. There was also at least on article by Bert Pennybacker in Rails Northeast about the Pennsy duplex engines in general. I hope that this is a start. Ted -----Original Message----- From: Sean Crookham [mailto:SCrookham@citrusmotors.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:44 PM To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource Hi all, I'm looking for a good online or offline resource on the Q-2. Does anyone know where I might find something? Currently I've only found bits and pieces spread all over the net. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Sean Crookham ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Alco FA-1s Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 14:13:26 -0500 Lou Koch inquired... Did they have train phones and if so where can I find a suitable >picture so I can install them on a proto 2000 model I have? > Al Staufer's PENNSY POWER II p. 222 pp. 286-287 p, 288 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:23:32 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Steam loco lettering Howdy all, I just had one of those "moments" when I finally ordered a reprint of the original PRRT&HS special publication on painting and lettering steam locos... The instructions are dated 1929, and specify gold (aka bronze gold) lettering on passenger locos and buff (aka dulux gold) lettering on freight locos. Dang! I thought lettering was gold on all locos up until the early 50's! 1) Was this policy maintained through to 1953 when all gold lettering was dropped? 2) Which locos count as "passenger"? (obviously, classes A, B, C, and I are freight) 3) Did this apply to electric locos? For example, the P5 as built was a passenger loco, but would the units with steam generators removed be classified as freight and lettered with buff? Would the L6 class get buff lettering from the begining? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: DAMAGE CONTROL re: [PRR] Society BoD Report Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:31:07 -0500 Well said, Jim. That IS the way we decide elections now, isn't it? Thanks to ALGore... Doesn't matter who gets voted to the position as they can keep recounting the votes until they get what they want. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] PRRT&HS Monthly Newsletter Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:05:06 -0500 I am pleased to advise you that at the November 11, 2000 PRRT&HS Board of Directors meeting the board approved the issuing of a monthly electronic newsletter (PRRTHS e-NEWS) to disseminate information on current issues and events pertaining to Society operations and administration. It is not intended that this newsletter carry information pertaining to the PRR itself, that is the mission of “The Keystone.” The November issue of e-NEWS will be ready to distribute in a few days. Both it and the December issue will be distributed using the address lists of existing established e-channels. However, it is anticipated that beginning in January 2001 PRRT&HS e-NEWS will be using its own site at e-groups. You may subscribe to the newsletter now by going to - PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@egroups.com Al Buchan - Editor PRRT&HS e-NEWS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Monthly Newsletter Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:05:06 -0500 I am pleased to advise you that at the November 11, 2000 PRRT&HS Board of Directors meeting the board approved the issuing of a monthly electronic newsletter (PRRTHS e-NEWS) to disseminate information on current issues and events pertaining to Society operations and administration. It is not intended that this newsletter carry information pertaining to the PRR itself, that is the mission of “The Keystone.” The November issue of e-NEWS will be ready to distribute in a few days. Both it and the December issue will be distributed using the address lists of existing established e-channels. However, it is anticipated that beginning in January 2001 PRRT&HS e-NEWS will be using its own site at e-groups. You may subscribe to the newsletter now by going to - PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@egroups.com Al Buchan - Editor PRRT&HS e-NEWS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "taylorsouthwood" Subject: [PRR] Keystone article reprints? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:10:50 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04F27.00AC8900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering if back issues or reprints of the Keystone were = available, and if so how would I be able to obtain one. The article I am = looking for is "Painting and Lettering of Pennsylvania Cabin Cars" , = this article was in the Keystone vol.7, no.4 , December 1974. It was = authored by Gary C. Rauch, Robert Johnson,and Frederic V. Schaefer. = Thanks in advance for any information. Mark=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04F27.00AC8900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was wondering if back issues or = reprints of the=20 Keystone were available, and if so how would I be able to obtain one. = The=20 article I am looking for is "Painting and Lettering of Pennsylvania = Cabin Cars"=20 , this article was in the Keystone vol.7, no.4 , December 1974. It was = authored=20 by Gary C. Rauch, Robert Johnson,and Frederic V. Schaefer. Thanks in = advance for=20 any information.  Mark
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04F27.00AC8900-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 20:27:09 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Please end recount tangent In a message dated Wed, 15 Nov 2000 4:44:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, "W. Terry Stuart" writes: << Well said, Jim. That IS the way we decide elections now, isn't it? Thanks to ALGore... Terry, Or follow Dubya's lead and let yore Daddy's friends and little brother Jed delay counting all the real votes so you can win with fewer votes than the real victor. As you see I view the situation in Florida differently while probably would agree with you about PRRT&HS. I feel strongly that this should be one place I can go without hearing about hanging chad or premature declarations of victory. Things are so up in the air right now that we should confine any mention of Florida on this list to discussions of the "The Southwind" or through sleeper service to Tampa or Miami on the SAL or FEC. Tom V. A former Democrat now finding Kermit was right when he sang "It's tough being Green." Doesn't matter who gets voted to the position as they can keep recounting the votes until they get what they want. Jim ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:40:37 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOPS In a message dated 00-11-15 13:04:04 EST, mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: << NS no longer has any qualms about poking "Bud" Schuster in the eye. >> I just heard something interesting on the radio tonight. Apparently, in the big 1994 Republican congressional win, they put a 3-term (6-year) limit on committee chairmanships. They have now decided to stick with that limit, which means, although Bud will still be around, he won't be chairman any more. Same goes for Henry Hyde and several other famous names. Rich Copeland Glenside, PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 21:42:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] RESULTS: 4th Annual "Keystone Crossings/PRR-Talk"Modeling From: Jerry Britton Time for the results of the 4th Annual "Keystone Crossings/PRR-Talk" Modeling Needs Survey! The 451 subscribers of the "PRR-Talk" list were asked to participate by listing up to three PRR products that they would like to see produced in each of the categories listed. There were 46 responses. For the few that indicated more than three in a category, only the first three were tallied. These results will be posted to several dozen model manufacturers. All results are for plastic/resin unless otherwise noted. P.S. There will be no recounts, absentee ballots, new elections, electoral college, etc. This is it!!! ===========================HO Scale================================== STEAM LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (11) J-1 / J-1a [Bowser is working on for 2002.] (9) H-8 / H-9 / H-10 (P2K quality) (8) I-1 / I-1s / I-1sa (P2K quality) (6) B-? / B-6sb / B-6sa (5) M-1 / M-1a (P2K quality) (4) L-1 (P2K/Spectrum quality) (4) C-? / C-1 (3) T-1 (P2K quality) (3) S-1 / S-2 (3) A-? / A-5 / A-5s (3) Q-1 / Q-2 (3) N-2s / N-2sa (2) E-6 (P2K quality) (2) H-6sb (2) N-1 / N-1s (2) K-4s (P2K quality) (1) K-3s (1) B-28 (USRA) (1) B-8 (1) G-54sa (1) D-? ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (9) P-5a (P2K quality) <---consistent popular request!!! (8) E-44 / E-44a (P2K quality) (7) MP-54/P-54 (6) P-5a modified (P2K quality) (4) GG-1 (P2K quality) (3) P-5 (P2K quality) (1) E-2c (1) MP-85 (1) E-2b (1) DD-1 (1) DD-2 (1) B-1 (1) B-6 (1) L-6 (1) O-1 (1) Y-1 (1) R-1 DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (6) BP-60/BH-50 (Baldwin Centipede) <---consistent popular request!!! (5) FS-20m (FM H-20-44) (3) BS-24 (Baldwin RT-624) (P2K quality) (3) AS-6 / AS-10 (Alco S1/S2/S3) [These were done by Atlas!] (3) GF-25a (GE U-25c) (P2K quality) (2) LS-25 (Lima T-2500) (2) BF-16 (Baldwin RF-16) (P2K quality)) (2) AF-24 (Alco RS-27) (1) BP-20 (Baldwin DR6-4-20) (Available in resin!) (1) EF-25a (EMD SD-35) (P2K quality) (1) ES-15ms (EMD GP-7 torp tubes) (1) EF-15 (EMD F-3) (P2K quality) (1) ? (Baldwin DS4) (1) FS-16m (FM H-16-44) (1) AS-16m (Alco RS-3 all phases) (P2K quality) (1) early Baldwins [I make no attempt to interpret!] (1) EFS-15b(?) (EMD cabless GP-7b) (1) AS-10am (Alco RS-1; Washington Terminal version) (1) EF-30a (EMD SD40) (1) ES-12m (EMD SW9) (another P2K run) (1) any transfer unit FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK / MOW ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: (8) N-8 cabin <---consistent popular request!!! (6) GLa hopper (Red Caboose quality) (4) GLc hopper (Red Caboose quality) (4) H-30 hopper (4) K-8 stock (4) K-7 / K-7a stock (3) GLca hopper (3) F-30 flat w/1954-appropriate TrucTrain trailer (3) N-6a / N-6b cabin (3) X-58 box (2) X-23 box [Rumor Westerfield is working on.] (2) G-38/G-39 ore jenny (2) H-35 hopper (2) H-25 hopper (1) H-21 hopper (Red Caboose quality) (1) G-41 coil car (1) G-39 / G-39a gon (1) G-38 gon (1) G-36 gon w/coil hoods (1) G-29 gon (1) X-51 box (1) X-42 box (1) X-38 box (1) X-30 box (1) X-29 box w/rivited sheet ends (1) X-26 box (1) heavy duty flat (wasn't specific) (1) G-38 (1) F-38 depressed center flat, plastic (1) F-31 flat (1) F-22 flat (1) FW1 / FD1 flat (1) Bethlehem Steel 52'6" fishbelly side gon w/optional ends (1) AAR offset side alternate twin hopper (eastern roads) (1) 70-ton AAR flat (1) FM container car (1) tower car (1) ND / N-4 / N-6 cabins, laser cut wood PASSENGER ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: [MP-54's are listed under electric locos.] (11) R-50 / R-50b reefer <------#1 two years running!!! (4) Congo set (inc. P-85h) (2) B-70 (2) X-42 mail storage (1) P-85 coach (1) Silverliner I (1) Pioneer 3 (1) R-60 reefer (1) The South Wind set (1) Senator set (1) Fleet of Modernism set (1) Broadway Limited set (1) square end tail cars [Rivarossi makes now] (1) BM-70ka (1) B-60 [ECW makes now; 3 versions coming from BCW.] (1) BM-85 (1) PB-54 / MPB-54 short baggage version (1) kit to convert Bachmann doodlebug to PRR version (1) Budd fluted 10-6 sleeper (1) Budd diner (1) #4100 series coach (1) P-70gs (1) P-70k (1) BM-70 (1) HARBOR car [sides already available] STRUCTURES DESIRED: (8) variety of towers and stations (4) mid-size station (Lancaster/Johnstown) (4) turntable/roundhouse combo (4) MoW outbuildings (2) small/medium coaling tower (Enola) (1) large coaling trestle (Denholm, thorndale) (1) Cornwall Station In Lebanon at 12th & Walnut. It is part of the Lebanon Branch. George of FSM would do it right. It's perfect for his talent (1) small PRR depot (1) passenger shed (Philadelphia; before fire!) (1) large station (Penn) OTHER DESIRED: (2) Scale plastic/brass PRR position light signals with scale illumination and complete details (2) assortment of accurate tenders (90F75) (2) standard water stand pipes (2) standard water tanks (2) catenary parts [check out Model Memories!] (2) signal bridges (1) Air operated switch machine detail parts; air piping parts for typical PRR pnuematic plant. (1) book on Monongahela Division (1) book on Conemough Division (1) book on Allegheny Division (1) book on variants of P-70's (1) Styrene brick sheets (Similar to Holgate-Reynolds, but in styrene) (1) 32' Highway Trailers (1) Mid-1960's Fruehauf-built exterior post PRR-spec piggyback van with curbside door, tuscan red, with accurate lettering (plastic, Lonestar/MP 501 quality). (Current available resin model is too crude with oversize details and poor quality castings.) [Previous comment is not the editor's.] (1) Plastic or resin 1950's\1960's era gondola containers (i.e., for coke, limestone, etc.) (1) A PRR highway overpass (portland cement with the Keystones cast in the sides of the bridge) (1) #8 turnout from Micro Engineering ===========================N Scale================================== STEAM LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (4) J-1 (4) K-4 (3) M-1 / M-1a (2) E-6 (2) H-10 (2) G-5 (1) Q-1 / Q-2 (1) S-1 / S-2 (1) T-1 [coming in brass from Key] ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (5) P-5 (3) P-5a (3) E-44 (1) B-1 (1) DD-2 (1) MP-54 (1) E-2b DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (3) AF-27 (Alco C628) (2) BP-60/BH-50 (Baldwin Centipede) (2) AF-25 (Alco C425) (2) EFP-15 (EMD FP7) (1) BS-10 (Baldwin VO-1000) (1) BRS-16 (Baldwin AS616) (1) A6 #3906 (1) AF-24 (Alco C424) (1) AF-30a (Alco C630) (1) BP-20 (Baldwin DR6-4-20) (1) BS-12m (Baldwin S-12) (1) FS-16m (FM H-16-44) (1) ES-6 (EMD SW1) FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK / MOW ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: (3) H-21 hopper (2) X-23 box (2) N-8 cabin (2) G-41 coil cars (2) G-38 / G-39 ore jennies (1) F-30 flat w/1954-appropriate TrucTrain trailer (1) ore hoppers (not specific) (1) Dyno car (1) cabins (not specific) (1) stock cars (not specific) (1) N-5c cabin [Bowser may do if N-5 sells well.] (1) H-39 hopper (1) N-6 cabin PASSENGER ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: [MP-54's are listed under electric locos.] (4) B-60 / B-60b baggage [someone is working on these!] (3) P-70 coach (2) R-50b reefer (1) MPB-70 (1) Senator set (1) Z-74? business car (1) BM-70 STRUCTURES DESIRED: (3) PRR towers (inc. ALTO) (3) mid-size station (Lancaster) (2) catenary supports for Sommerfeldt catenary (1) PRR stations (1) PRR MoW buildings (1) PR roundhouse/turntable OTHER DESIRED: (3) Etched brass position light signals, along with various signal bridges, ala Alkem's C&O ones. (1) More accurate PRR freight car decals or dry transfers ===========================O Scale 2 rail============================= DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES DESIRED: (1) PRSL Baldwin BS16ms in plastic (Weaver!!??) FREIGHT ROLLING STOCK / MOW ROLLING STOCK DESIRED: (1) X-29 good plastic w/details for freight or express --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JDPanza@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 22:57:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource Ted is right. The information taken from my copy is: Pennsy Q Class - Classic Power 5 by E. T. Harley, published by N.J. International, Library of Congress No. 82-081755. It includes scale drawings of the 6193 and plenty of great photos. The bibliography lists the Rails Northeast article Ted refers to as being in the January-February 1981 issue. In a message dated 11/15/00 1:10:39 PM Central Standard Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: > Subj: RE: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource > Date: 11/15/00 1:10:39 PM Central Standard Time > From: Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com (Andrews, Ted) > Sender: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > To: SCrookham@citrusmotors.com ('SCrookham@citrusmotors.com'), prr-talk@dsop. > com ('prr-talk@dsop.com') > > Sean: > > There is the NJ International "Power Series" book on the Q-2. Also, there > are references in Pennsy Power I, II, and III. There was also at least on > article by Bert Pennybacker in Rails Northeast about the Pennsy duplex > engines in general. > > I hope that this is a start. > > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Crookham [mailto:SCrookham@citrusmotors.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 1:44 PM > To: 'prr-talk@dsop.com' > Subject: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource > > > Hi all, > I'm looking for a good online or offline resource on the Q-2. Does anyone > know where I might find something? Currently I've only found bits and > pieces spread all over the net. Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > Sean Crookham ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 06:25:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] RESULTS: 4th Annual From: Jerry Britton On 11/15/00 11:16 PM, Andy Cich at (ajc5150@home.com) wrote: > I'll come out and admit that I'm the lone voter for a B-60. ECW does not > make this kit. They make a B-60b. > > Are the coming BCW cars B-60, or B-60b? > Not sure of the exact class. The key variant was the doors...location and size. They will be brass-sided cars, like the horse and scenery cars. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 10:15:18 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOPS --On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 10:18 AM +0000 DWSNRHS@aol.com wrote: > Today, November 15, 2000, Norfolk Southern Corp. spokesperson Rudy Husband, > in an interview on radio station WRTA (Altoona), announced the closing of the > Hollidaysburg Car Shops, effective March 1, 2001. The Hollidaysburg Car > Shops as you know are the former PRR SAMUEL REA SHOPS. ... Mr. Husband > > discussed the issue live on a morning talk show ... Obviously, there is much > discussion about lack of commitment to pre-merger agreements. Really!? Was there ever really any doubt in any thinking person's mind (this excludes, of course, Bud "Highway" Shyster and Arlen Spectator) that NS had no intention of honoring any commitment that was not in their financial interest? Honestly! Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:46:45 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] RESULTS: 4th Andy, That's a good observation. The B60 was different, and not all the differences were subtle. They rode on older trucks, had a monitor roof and three extra panels per side. At first glance they look similar to B60b's; but if you look at pictures of long strings of mail and express trains, there is almost always a B60 or 2, and it's always distinctively different! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 11/15/00 11:16 PM, Andy Cich at (ajc5150@home.com) wrote: > > > I'll come out and admit that I'm the lone voter for a B-60. ECW does not > > make this kit. They make a B-60b. > > > > Are the coming BCW cars B-60, or B-60b? > > > Not sure of the exact class. The key variant was the doors...location and > size. They will be brass-sided cars, like the horse and scenery cars. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] R50's Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:49:09 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, all, One question - in what year was PRR's R50 first built? George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:04:29 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRR Jordan Spreaders Hello y'all, Do any of you (esp Al, our MOW guru ) have a lettering diagram for PRR Jordan Spreaders? I know that there is a color photo of one in one of the color guides, so I'm OK with herald and number placement, but I was very curious about other lettering such as test data... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:30:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] BCW B-60 Series Cars List, I was just reading thru the Dec 2000 MR and there is a note in there stating that Jane Greene, was killed in an automobile accident on Sept 1. Her and her husband John, were Bethlahem Car Works. It dosn't say if this will effect the future of BCW but I would suppose there maybe a delay of some kind? My Regards to Mr. Greene......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:52:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a good Q-2 Resource There is the NJ International "Power Series" book on the Q-2. I just bought one of these at a Branes and Noble for $14.00. Very thorough for a slim paperback book. I certainly know more about Q2's than I ever wanted to know! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:05:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR] SPECIAL OFFER - Four Ways West From: Jerry Britton Special offer for PRR-Talk subscribers from Four Ways West... Four Ways West Publications has just prublished "Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial - Volume Two - St. Louis to New York" by David Sweetland. It is a 128 page all color book which retails for $49.95 + $3.50 s/h. PRR-Talk subscribers can order right away and they will honor the pre-pub price of $40 + 3.50 s/h and ship the book next week. You can e-mail Visa or MC card orders via Jshine4449@aol.com or fax the card order to 714-521-5664. Thanks go out to Joe Shine for making this offer! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 01:43:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] BCW B-60 Series Cars BCW will survive. We just need to give John some time. He has plant of projects planned so BCW will not go away. --------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 06:23:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] SPECIAL OFFER - Four Ways West From: Jerry Britton On 11/16/00 10:05 PM, Jerry Britton at (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > Special offer for PRR-Talk subscribers from Four Ways West... > > Four Ways West Publications has just prublished "Pennsylvania Railroad Color > Pictorial - Volume Two - St. Louis to New York" by David Sweetland. It is a > 128 page all color book which retails for $49.95 + $3.50 s/h. PRR-Talk > subscribers can order right away and they will honor the pre-pub price of > $40 + 3.50 s/h and ship the book next week. You can e-mail Visa or MC card > orders via Jshine4449@aol.com or fax the card order to 714-521-5664. > > Thanks go out to Joe Shine for making this offer! > Bill Morlitz, rightfully so, pointed out that he made this offer over the list a few weeks ago. In fact, I ordered at that time based on his post. The reason for my post is that this is a new offer, or rather an extension of the offer, beyond the pre-pub offer end date (date of release of the book). Thank you for your support, Bill! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:29:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PRRT&HS e-NEWS Number 1 ================================ PRRT&HS e-NEWS Number 1 – November 2000 ===================== A monthly electronic newsletter of the PRRT&HS published for the purpose of disseminating information on current issues and events pertaining to the Society’s operations and administration. ===================== The PRRT&HS Board of Directors met on November 11, 2000 from 9:45 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. at the home of Chuck Blardone in Lancaster. In attendance were Dick Adams, Fred Shaefer, Dave Scott, Chuck Blardone, Bob Brubaker* Ivan Franz and Al Buchan. Also present were Scott Pagliughi, Legal Counsel and Bill Morlitz, Web Site Superintendent. * Bob Brubaker was present via speakerphone. The major issues discussed are summarized below. 1. The board approved the issuing of a monthly electronic newsletter to disseminate information on current issues and events pertaining to Society operations and administration. It is not intended that this newsletter carry information pertaining to the PRR itself, that is the mission of “The Keystone.” Al Buchan will be responsible for editing and distributing the newsletter via e-mail. 2. “The Keystone” on CD. As previously reported, this subject was discussed during the May 2000 board meeting. Outgoing Director Wheeler had agreed to work on this on an experimental basis. During the current meeting it was decided that although the cost to produce a CD is relatively insignificant, the scanning and editing of each issue was too labor intensive to provide a sufficient return on time invested. Therefore, this project was tabled. If a member desires to take on this scanning project as a labor of love please contact the e-NEWS editor directly. 3. “The Keystone” reprints. Fifty copies of Volume 6 (1973) have been reproduced and are for sale. Only 20 copies have sold thus far. However, in light of tabling the CD project, reproduction of Volumes 7, 8 and 9 will be undertaken and should be ready sometime in December. Watch for further announcements of their availability. Volume 6 may currently be ordered by writing to Dick Adams at 221 Market Street South, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6327. The cost is $12.00 (includes postage) and the check should be made out to the PRRT&HS. 4. The winter issue of “The Keystone” is on schedule and should be in the mail during the first week of December 2000. 5. The board made a commitment to try and include one article per issue of “The Keystone” geared to modeling. This will get fully underway when such works are submitted to the editor. Remember the only articles published are those submitted by the members – there is no editorial staff writing articles. An effort will also be made to include more information in the magazine relative to plans, standards, track charts, train consist information, MP229s, etc. Chuck is currently soliciting modeling articles and the Spring "Keystone" will have a call for modeling articles. 6. Other Publications: a. The board is considering publishing a comprehensive major book on the role of marine operations on the PRR. More information will be forthcoming. b. A book on Harrisburg, similar to the Lewistown one is currently being worked on. c. A book on PRR Company Service Work Equipment to be originally published in late 2001 will be delayed until at least 2002 so as not to conflict with a similar book anticipated to be on the market in late 2001 from a different publisher. 7. Annual Meetings a. The 2001 meeting at Camp Hill is being sponsored by the Pittsburgh Chapter. b. The 2002 meeting at Camp Hill will be sponsored by the National Organization. Dick Adams and Joe Acri will handle the local arrangements. Al Buchan is program chairman. c. The board is hoping the 2003 meeting could be held in the Delaware Valley area, and the 2004 meeting held in the old Lines West, Ohio area. Sponsorship of the Lines West meeting is currently being taken under advisement by the Cincinnati Modelers. 8. Color Drift Cards. Due to the unavailability of some colors, orders for complete sets cannot be filled. Therefore, orders should only be for specific colors. For remaining colors and how to order see The Interchange (inside back cover) section of “The Keystone.” 9. Lewistown Station and Archives. Because of the size, complexity and overwhelming nature of the task it was decided that this major area of society operations would be divided into two separate functions. A five person Archive Committee was established with PRR research expert and former “Keystone” editor Robert L. Johnson as Chairperson. Four others were named to the committee but are not yet confirmed. Walt Keely will continue on as Superintendent of the Lewistown Station and Grounds. As more information develops on this issue it will be reported herein. 10. Several other minor operational and administrative issues were covered by the board. However, they are not of consequence to the membership at large and are not reported herein. ================== MEMBERS ARE REMINDED THAT ANNUAL DUES ARE DUE AT THIS TIME. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR CITY OR TOWN ON THE RETURN FORM. UNFORTUNATELY A SPACE FOR THAT INFORMATION WAS NOT PROVIDED. You may subscribe directly to this newsletter by joining e-groups and sending a message to PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@egroups.com Al Buchan, Editor PRRT&HS e-NEWS abbuchan1@home.com -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> The best travel companies bid for your business at Hotwire. http://click.egroups.com/1/9740/3/_/586931/_/974471730/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS e-NEWS Number 1 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:29:59 -0500 ================================ PRRT&HS e-NEWS Number 1 – November 2000 ===================== A monthly electronic newsletter of the PRRT&HS published for the purpose of disseminating information on current issues and events pertaining to the Society’s operations and administration. ===================== The PRRT&HS Board of Directors met on November 11, 2000 from 9:45 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. at the home of Chuck Blardone in Lancaster. In attendance were Dick Adams, Fred Shaefer, Dave Scott, Chuck Blardone, Bob Brubaker* Ivan Franz and Al Buchan. Also present were Scott Pagliughi, Legal Counsel and Bill Morlitz, Web Site Superintendent. * Bob Brubaker was present via speakerphone. The major issues discussed are summarized below. 1. The board approved the issuing of a monthly electronic newsletter to disseminate information on current issues and events pertaining to Society operations and administration. It is not intended that this newsletter carry information pertaining to the PRR itself, that is the mission of “The Keystone.” Al Buchan will be responsible for editing and distributing the newsletter via e-mail. 2. “The Keystone” on CD. As previously reported, this subject was discussed during the May 2000 board meeting. Outgoing Director Wheeler had agreed to work on this on an experimental basis. During the current meeting it was decided that although the cost to produce a CD is relatively insignificant, the scanning and editing of each issue was too labor intensive to provide a sufficient return on time invested. Therefore, this project was tabled. If a member desires to take on this scanning project as a labor of love please contact the e-NEWS editor directly. 3. “The Keystone” reprints. Fifty copies of Volume 6 (1973) have been reproduced and are for sale. Only 20 copies have sold thus far. However, in light of tabling the CD project, reproduction of Volumes 7, 8 and 9 will be undertaken and should be ready sometime in December. Watch for further announcements of their availability. Volume 6 may currently be ordered by writing to Dick Adams at 221 Market Street South, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055-6327. The cost is $12.00 (includes postage) and the check should be made out to the PRRT&HS. 4. The winter issue of “The Keystone” is on schedule and should be in the mail during the first week of December 2000. 5. The board made a commitment to try and include one article per issue of “The Keystone” geared to modeling. This will get fully underway when such works are submitted to the editor. Remember the only articles published are those submitted by the members – there is no editorial staff writing articles. An effort will also be made to include more information in the magazine relative to plans, standards, track charts, train consist information, MP229s, etc. Chuck is currently soliciting modeling articles and the Spring "Keystone" will have a call for modeling articles. 6. Other Publications: a. The board is considering publishing a comprehensive major book on the role of marine operations on the PRR. More information will be forthcoming. b. A book on Harrisburg, similar to the Lewistown one is currently being worked on. c. A book on PRR Company Service Work Equipment to be originally published in late 2001 will be delayed until at least 2002 so as not to conflict with a similar book anticipated to be on the market in late 2001 from a different publisher. 7. Annual Meetings a. The 2001 meeting at Camp Hill is being sponsored by the Pittsburgh Chapter. b. The 2002 meeting at Camp Hill will be sponsored by the National Organization. Dick Adams and Joe Acri will handle the local arrangements. Al Buchan is program chairman. c. The board is hoping the 2003 meeting could be held in the Delaware Valley area, and the 2004 meeting held in the old Lines West, Ohio area. Sponsorship of the Lines West meeting is currently being taken under advisement by the Cincinnati Modelers. 8. Color Drift Cards. Due to the unavailability of some colors, orders for complete sets cannot be filled. Therefore, orders should only be for specific colors. For remaining colors and how to order see The Interchange (inside back cover) section of “The Keystone.” 9. Lewistown Station and Archives. Because of the size, complexity and overwhelming nature of the task it was decided that this major area of society operations would be divided into two separate functions. A five person Archive Committee was established with PRR research expert and former “Keystone” editor Robert L. Johnson as Chairperson. Four others were named to the committee but are not yet confirmed. Walt Keely will continue on as Superintendent of the Lewistown Station and Grounds. As more information develops on this issue it will be reported herein. 10. Several other minor operational and administrative issues were covered by the board. However, they are not of consequence to the membership at large and are not reported herein. ================== MEMBERS ARE REMINDED THAT ANNUAL DUES ARE DUE AT THIS TIME. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR CITY OR TOWN ON THE RETURN FORM. UNFORTUNATELY A SPACE FOR THAT INFORMATION WAS NOT PROVIDED. You may subscribe directly to this newsletter by joining e-groups and sending a message to PRRTHSe-NEWS-subscribe@egroups.com Al Buchan, Editor PRRT&HS e-NEWS abbuchan1@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:40:30 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Geography Trivia From: Jerry Britton The other night I overhead my wife's half of a telephone conversation where she was receiving (and repeating out loud) directions for a business trip she took the following day. To the amazement of both her and her co-worker, I interrupted and said "You're going to _____!" and I was correct! Can you guess? If you do, you get a medium pat on the back! Here is the entirety of what I overheard: "...down a big hill, there will be a Sheetz (convenience store) on the left, you'll go under the railroad tracks, then there will be a McDonald's on the right..." Anyone? P.S./CLUE: This is PRR-related! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Geography Trivia Now come on Jerry, You just described the entire state of Pennsylvania! So that is my guess, Pennsylvania!!! Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:55:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Geography Trivia From: Jerry Britton Bennett Levin is the winner! Yes, Cresson... perhaps my favorite place to watch trains! On 11/17/00 9:53 AM, Bennett Levin (v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Cresson! > > > BL > > Jerry Britton wrote: >> >> The other night I overhead my wife's half of a telephone conversation where >> she was receiving (and repeating out loud) directions for a business trip >> she took the following day. >> >> To the amazement of both her and her co-worker, I interrupted and said >> "You're going to _____!" and I was correct! >> >> Can you guess? If you do, you get a medium pat on the back! >> >> Here is the entirety of what I overheard: >> >> "...down a big hill, there will be a Sheetz (convenience store) on the >> left, you'll go under the railroad tracks, then there will be a >> McDonald's on the right..." >> >> Anyone? >> >> P.S./CLUE: This is PRR-related! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Christopher Brandt" Subject: RE: [PRR] Geography Trivia Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:58:22 -0500 Altoona? > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Britton > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 9:41 AM > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] Geography Trivia > > > The other night I overhead my wife's half of a telephone > conversation where > she was receiving (and repeating out loud) directions for a business trip > she took the following day. > > To the amazement of both her and her co-worker, I interrupted and said > "You're going to _____!" and I was correct! > > Can you guess? If you do, you get a medium pat on the back! > > Here is the entirety of what I overheard: > > "...down a big hill, there will be a Sheetz (convenience store) on the > left, you'll go under the railroad tracks, then there will be a > McDonald's on the right..." > > Anyone? > > P.S./CLUE: This is PRR-related! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 12:16:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Geography Trivia --part1_41.3918817.2746c1ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That would be Cresson, not far from The Station Inn Jon S. --part1_41.3918817.2746c1ec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That would be Cresson, not far from The Station Inn
Jon S. --part1_41.3918817.2746c1ec_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] Reported by Athearn Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:35:20 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C050DE.49B60000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable F7A and F7B Genesis Series Pennsy is scheduled to be here just before Christmas. Prices have been set. F7A $114.98 F7A & F7B Combo $199.98 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C050DE.49B60000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
F7A and F7B Genesis Series
Pennsy is scheduled to be here just before Christmas.

Prices have been set.
F7A $114.98
F7A & F7B Combo $199.98
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C050DE.49B60000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:14:41 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Reported by Athearn All:

Anyone know if these are both powered units?

Thanks,

Jeff Warner

W. Terry Stuart wrote:
F7A and F7B Genesis Series
Pennsy is scheduled to be here just before Christmas.

Prices have been set.
F7A $114.98
F7A & F7B Combo $199.98

----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Reported by Athearn Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 21:57:27 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C050E1.604E9400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff Warner=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Reported by Athearn All: Anyone know if these are both powered units? Thanks, Jeff Warner W. Terry Stuart wrote: F7A and F7B Genesis Series Pennsy is scheduled to be here just before Christmas. Prices have been set. F7A $114.98 F7A & F7B Combo $199.98 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- = Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- = For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to = "listserv@dsop.com". ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C050E1.604E9400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jeff = Warner
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 = 9:14=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] Reported by=20 Athearn

All:

Anyone know if these are both powered=20 units?

Thanks,

Jeff Warner

W. Terry Stuart = wrote:
F7A and F7B Genesis Series
Pennsy is scheduled to be here just before Christmas.

Prices have been set.
F7A $114.98
F7A & F7B Combo=20 = $199.98

-------------------------------------= ----------------------------------=20 Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.=20 = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- = For=20 assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to=20 "listserv@dsop.com". ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C050E1.604E9400-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "gregory" Subject: [PRR] Renovo Yards Update Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 16:44:22 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C0517E.CD844220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you interested in the Renovo Yards, I just managed to pass = through there a few days ago. The walk bridge was torn down as = previously reported, but a section of it remains behind the master = mechanics office. I photographed it for the architectural preservation. = I hope to model renovo some day and want to be as accurate as possible. = The shops were wide open. I managed to get interior shots of buildings I = have never had access to before.Hopefully some better ones of others I = took pictures of before. I had to use disposable cameras as I came = unprepared. But they do an OK job most of the time.=20 They are building a structure just north west of the coaling tower. = I was told they will be assembling computer cables there. All but one = caboose are gone. The remaining one is a New Haven caboose, I am fairly = certain. The NYC heavyweight and the X-29 sit in the eastern part of the = yard. The PRR heavyweight in MOW yellow is at the most western end of = the yard. It may be on its' way out as this is close to where equipment = is usually stored immediately prior to going out. On the other hand it = may be there to put near the coaling tower for display.=20 Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest Renovo Yards always seeking information or photos of the shops ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C0517E.CD844220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those of you interested in the = Renovo Yards, I=20 just managed to pass through there a few days ago. The walk bridge was = torn down=20 as previously reported, but a section of it remains behind the master = mechanics=20 office. I photographed it for the architectural preservation. I hope to = model=20 renovo some day and want to be as accurate as possible. The shops were = wide=20 open. I managed to get interior shots of buildings I have never had = access to=20 before.Hopefully some better ones of others I took pictures of before. I = had to=20 use disposable cameras as I came unprepared. But they do an OK job most = of the=20 time.
    They are building a = structure=20 just north west of the coaling tower. I was told they will be assembling = computer cables there. All but one caboose are gone. The remaining one = is a New=20 Haven caboose, I am fairly certain. The NYC heavyweight and the X-29 sit = in the=20 eastern part of the yard. The PRR heavyweight in MOW yellow is at the = most=20 western end of the yard. It may be on its' way out as this is close to = where=20 equipment is usually stored immediately prior to going out. On the other = hand it=20 may be there to put near the coaling tower for display.
 
Greg Stone
PRRT&HS member
special interest Renovo = Yards
always seeking information or photos of = the=20 shops
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C0517E.CD844220-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] trailer train trailers update Hello All.... I've posted this e-mail to three folks on the list already,but with pics of these trailers. For those interested...here is the e-mail i've sent. Anyone wishing to see the pics can write me and i'll send them along. There are eight of them. These PRR trailers are in Portsmouth,Va. and are both older than the one i found in the junk yard a while back. I knew the longer one in the pics was a PRR trailer, and i am now sure the other older one is too. The older one may be the oldest PRR TT trailer still around. You will see a pic of the letter "N" from the older trailer,which was part of the words "PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD" on the side of the older yellow painted trailer. It looks a lot like the one shown in the PRR color guide book(vol.2) to the right of the 34 footer on the top of page 123 except it has only one axle and no side doors. Given its age,it in better shape than the newer 34' trailer. You can also slightly make out where the Keystones were on the sides. I did'nt have a tape measure with me,but the older one appears to be a 28 footer with a single non-sliding axle. The newer one has a tandem axle. The newer 34' foot trailer shows signs of where the circular logo was. Judging from the serial number i would guess 1957 as the build date for it. The newer trailer also showed what was left of some "Pool" number stencils. The number 164,U.S.Mail and the word "Merchants" were found on the front. The rear had the number 164 up near the PRRZ250095 number. On the front you can also see what is left of the Excelsior Leasing keystone. I did'nt find a builders plate for the older trailer,but here is the info from the builder's plate from the newer trailer. This trailer was built by Fruehauf. They appear to be owned by a electrical contractor who is doing some work in the neighbor hood. Possible current owner... Electrical-Mechanical Specialists Co. Norfolk,Va. (757)855-6068 PRRZ 250095 model No. FDVVP2 35 serial No.AV 319857 weight loaded..48,000 LBS. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Weldon Greiger" Subject: Re: [PRR] Renovo Yards Update Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:05:41 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: gregory To: PRR talk Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 7:44 PM Subject: [PRR] Renovo Yards Update > *** Message from Internet Services of Michigan ** > > This message originally contained a copy of the KakWorm email virus. > The contents of this message have been removed to prevent the spread of > this worm to your computer. > > To reach the author of the original message, simply reply to this message > and let them know that they are spreading the KakWorm virus and need to > remove it from their system for their e-mail to reach you. > > The following web page contains simple instructions for removing the > virus. If you want to let the sender know how to remove the virus, direct > them to this page: > > http://www.ismi.net/kak > > If you have any further questions, please contact the ISMI Support Staff > at support@ismi.net > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 17:14:49 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: [PRR] Dave Sweetland's books Just a reminder as the holiday buying season gets ready to empty our wallets that Dave Sweetland's "Pennsylvania Railroad Color Pictorial" books, vols. 1 & 2 are now each available autographed from Dave for $40.00 plus $3.00 postage (per book). If interested, send your check or money order to: Dave Sweetland 702 McKernan Lane Exton, PA 19341-1928 Have a safe and happy holiday, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:07:49 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR in Indiana --part1_62.92aede5.2749d365_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow "Listers" Could anyone out there till me the author and publisher of the new book Pennsylvania Railroad in Indiana ? Thanks Jon S. --part1_62.92aede5.2749d365_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow "Listers"
Could anyone out there till me the author and publisher of the new
book Pennsylvania Railroad in Indiana ?
Thanks
Jon S. --part1_62.92aede5.2749d365_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR in Indiana Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 08:03:50 -0500 Jon and list, Regarding the book "The Pennsylvania Railroad in Indiana" The author is William J. Watt, published by Indiana University Press. This book is reviewed in the Winter edition of "The Keystone" which is due out the first week of December. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 12:04:22 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR in Indiana --part1_3c.3c562f7.274ab396_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al Thank you for the Info. By the way, the book is out as of last week. I was at the NMRA Trainfest in Milwaukee, WI and held a copy of the book in my hands. Thanks Jon S. --part1_3c.3c562f7.274ab396_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al
Thank you for the Info.  By the way, the book is out as of last week.
I was at the NMRA Trainfest in Milwaukee, WI and held a copy of the
book in my hands.
Thanks
Jon S. --part1_3c.3c562f7.274ab396_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:39:12 -0500 From: bobp@tsc.com (Bob Poortinga) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR in Indiana > Could anyone out there till me the author and publisher of the new > book Pennsylvania Railroad in Indiana ? This book may be ordered online, along with 'A Sampling of Penn Central' and 'Railroads of Indiana', at -- Bob Poortinga (mailto:bobp@tsc.com) Bloomington, Indiana USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:42:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR-FAX] "KEYSTONE" ON CD Thanks to the several people that have expressed an interest in getting involved with the "Keystone" on CD Project as discussed in the November PRRTHSe-NEWS. The society will be reviewing how to proceed with that project. As information becomes available it will be posted. Al Buchan, Editor PRRTHSe-NEWS -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> eGroups eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/3/_/586931/_/974753248/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [CYBER] "KEYSTONE" ON CD Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:42:05 -0500 Thanks to the several people that have expressed an interest in getting involved with the "Keystone" on CD Project as discussed in the November PRRTHSe-NEWS. The society will be reviewing how to proceed with that project. As information becomes available it will be posted. Al Buchan, Editor PRRTHSe-NEWS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To access the "Members Only" section of the web site, click on a link and, when prompted, enter the user name "member" and the password "standardrr". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] "KEYSTONE" ON CD Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:42:05 -0500 Thanks to the several people that have expressed an interest in getting involved with the "Keystone" on CD Project as discussed in the November PRRTHSe-NEWS. The society will be reviewing how to proceed with that project. As information becomes available it will be posted. Al Buchan, Editor PRRTHSe-NEWS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:31:13 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] "KEYSTONE" ON CD Al Buchan wrote: Thanks to the several people that have expressed an interest in getting involved with the "Keystone" on CD Project as discussed in the November PRRTHSe-NEWS. The society will be reviewing how to proceed with that project. As information becomes available it will be posted. Al Buchan, Editor PRRTHSe-NEWS -- One thing I'd like to see on the CD project, as well as with back issue sales, is for a list of corrections to be included with each issue, or on a separate page preceding each volume on the cd. These corrections show up in letters to the editor of future issues, but if you buy a back issue separately, you sometimes end up with incorrect information. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:21:11 -0500 Listers, Just got my latest Walthers sale circular and in the new products section is an announcement for Budd Streamline Passenger Cars. 48 seat coach, 10-6 sleeper, 85' Grill/Diner. All come in PRR Details include; Interior vestibule details, full interiors, diecast metal GSC trucks, working diaphragms, 36" metal wheels with electrical pick-ups, swinging couplers, flush windows, correct end details. $31.98 April delivery OK so which ones are good to run on the PRR. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:05:07 EST Subject: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars In a message dated 11/21/00 7:28:39 AM Central Standard Time, cpc1@westchestergov.com writes: << OK so which ones are good to run on the PRR. >> I'll wait for the experts on the other applications, but the 10-6 sleeper in UP colors looks to be the correct car for through California service 1950-57. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:15:55 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Walthers Passenger Cars Notice that the only photos shown to date are of the prototype. Depending on what they do with the models the 10-6 could be good for UP, CZ, SAL, ACL, or FEC. All of these are thru cars to PRR connections. No coaches ever went thru to the west, and the Florida train coaches were all 52 or 54 seat. I withhold opinion on the suitability of the Grill/Diner for the Congo or Senator until I see the model. The Congo's Budd coaches were much higher capacity than 48 seats. With the exception of the "swing couplers", the implementation sounds wonderful. I may be able to bash an accurate Congo out of them. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Chany, Christopher" wrote: > > Listers, > > Just got my latest Walthers sale circular and in the new products section is > an announcement for Budd Streamline Passenger Cars. 48 seat coach, 10-6 > sleeper, 85' Grill/Diner. All come in PRR Details include; Interior > vestibule details, full interiors, diecast metal GSC trucks, working > diaphragms, 36" metal wheels with electrical pick-ups, swinging couplers, > flush windows, correct end details. $31.98 April delivery > > OK so which ones are good to run on the PRR. > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:45:58 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] More Wilmington De photos Hi all, I've updated and re-arranged my photopoint site of the Wilmington De station. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1312242&a=9746291 New photos include more exterior shots and lots of photos of details such as the platforms, catenary supports etc. I aplogize for the contrast on some photos - but it was a grey January day when I got many of the photos, and I had to take what I could get! Hopefully, this will serve as a resource for all y'all modeling Wilmington! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:08:37 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Special Device 50' box I'm looking for information and photos if possible on the PRR 89052 series boxcars. They were 50' tuscan cars with silver doors and a large SD on the side. They were specialized cars used by the Guide Lamp division of GM in Anderson Indiana for shipments of lamp products. It is possible that they were built in he late 40s or early 50s. The object is to model two of these cars. Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:57:38 -0500 From: Christopher Chany Subject: [PRR] C-Liner Listers, Has anyone released a Trainphone set for the C-liner? Also I believe that the truck sideframes are wrong for the PRR. Has anyone have a way to correct them? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Joel Akers" Subject: [PRR] Trainmasters - which way was front? Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:41:42 -0700 Finally got around to running my PRR Atlas Trainmasters and was wondering which way did PRR run these, short hood or long hood forward? Checked the PRR books I have and there is no pictures in them that I could reference. Another question, what service were the PRR SD35's used in, system wide or where they assigned to a specific freight type? Thanks. Joel Akers / j83@mindspring.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:27:47 -0500 From: Phil Tripician Subject: [PRR] PRR NEa Cabin Car Help! I have a Lambert unpainted Brass Cabin Car and want to paint and decal it properly. Does anyone have any assistance they can offer as to the painting, ie, (I know the body is Tuscan), but what color is the roof, are the roofwalks the same color, what color are the handrails and endrails, and where can I get the proper decals and numbers used in that series? Also any suggestions you could offer on details including the best paint to use and what the "proper" tuscan shade would be for that era would be very much appreciated. Thanks, and keep up the good work. Phil Tripician ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: [PRR] Auction Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 08:18:30 -0500 Jerry, Last year you mentioned that there was an auction the Wed before Thanksgiving at a fire house in New Oxford? Is this an annual event? Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:36:21 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR NEa Cabin Car In a message dated 11/21/00 11:33:54 PM Central Standard Time, ptripician@adelphia.net writes: << Does anyone have any assistance they can offer as to the painting, ie, (I know the body is Tuscan), but what color is the roof, are the roofwalks the same color, what color are the handrails and endrails, and where can I get the proper decals and numbers used in that series? >> The body is NOT Tuscan! Oct 1911 to 1920 Toluidine red 1920 to 1965 Freight car color 1965 Focal orange for steel cabins My freight car color is 50-50 mix of PollyScale Zinc Chromate Primer color and Special Oxide Red. Synthetic paints in later years made for a darker red on the prototype and of course weathering either faded or darkened the finish. Roofs on wood cars to 1920 were metallic brown Roofs on cars 1920 to late 40's were same as body: freight car color Roofs began being painted black in late 40's, early 50's. sometimes entire cupola was painted black,sometimes the sides of the cupola were body color--don't know the criteria for this. In 1961 cabins in through freight pools had cupola sides painted yellow, By January 1962 this was changed to the entire cupola being painted yellow. In 1963 pool cars in electrified teritory began to have cupolas painted gray. Handholds were painted chrome yellow beginning in January 1949. Very early ironwork was painted black,but you should refer to photos for the in-between period where they might have been either black or body color. Roofwalks are not covered in detail: only reference is to focal orange cars where the roofwalks were listed as focal orange. Most of above info is from the December 1974 Keystone article. My own personal preference is to find a color photo of the car or type of car for the era and duplicate it (doesn't work for 1920). I normally paint my roofs freight car color and handholds yellow,but have a few later-era cars I run at the club with black roofs and cupolas. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:53:32 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR NEa Cabin Car --part1_61.909741f.274d37ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nearly all cupolas from what I can gather were the same color as the roof. Some through train cupolas were painted yellow for east west service and gray for north south service. I believe these were exclusively on the Tructrains but someone more knowledgable than I will have to confirm that. I have no idea behind the logic of painting the cupolas that way since they would be the last thing seen on the train. Maybe it was a way of identifying them in a row of cabin cars. They might have been the best of the lot due to the distances they traveled or have had special equipment. --part1_61.909741f.274d37ec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nearly all cupolas from what I can gather were the same color as the roof.  
Some through train cupolas were painted yellow for east west service and gray
for north south service.  I believe these were exclusively on the Tructrains
but someone more knowledgable than I will have to confirm that.  I have no
idea behind the logic of painting the cupolas that way since they would be
the last thing seen on the train.  Maybe it was a way of identifying them in
a row of cabin cars.  They might have been the best of the lot due to the
distances they traveled or have had special equipment. --part1_61.909741f.274d37ec_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Trainmasters - which way was front? Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:49:51 -0500 Joel and the List: To answer your questions. 1. The Pennsy designated the long hood of the Tranmaster as the front. This seemed to be a typical practice for all long hooded engines. 2. Based on my trainsheets from Warsaw tower in 1965 and 1966, the SD-35's were rather common on the Ft. Wayne line. What I mean by common is the these engines appeared to show up the head of a train once every day or so. These engines were delivered in 1965 and were seen typically on general mix trains such as GRE-X, GC-2, etc. I did not see records of the SD-35's pulling anything like Truc Trains, however. In 1965, those intermodal trains were typically hauled by GP-9's, GP-30's, GP-35's, RS-27's, Alco Centurys, and U-25-B's. I hope that this helps. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Joel Akers [mailto:j83@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 11:42 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Trainmasters - which way was front? Finally got around to running my PRR Atlas Trainmasters and was wondering which way did PRR run these, short hood or long hood forward? Checked the PRR books I have and there is no pictures in them that I could reference. Another question, what service were the PRR SD35's used in, system wide or where they assigned to a specific freight type? Thanks. Joel Akers / j83@mindspring.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Special Device 50' box Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:00:10 -0500 My info has them listed as X52's. Part of 100 cars numbered between 89000-89099. They were built some time between 1953 and 1958 but I don't have the specifics... Unfortunately that's all the info I have on them.... There's a class diagram on my web site at: http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X52 Also, I have a reverse lookup that returns the class for a given car number (freight cars only..) It's near the bottom of http://prr.railfan.net/freight Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Roger P. > Hensley > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 5:09 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] Special Device 50' box > > > I'm looking for information and photos if possible on the > PRR 89052 series boxcars. They were 50' tuscan cars with > silver doors and a large SD on the side. They were specialized > cars used by the Guide Lamp division of GM in Anderson Indiana > for shipments of lamp products. It is possible that they were > built in he late 40s or early 50s. > > The object is to model two of these cars. > > Roger > > Roger Hensley > rhensley@anderson.cioe.com > == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == > == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:04:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith B. Thompson - Sun" Subject: [PRR] Ketstone index Hello, Does anyone know of an index for the PRRT&HS Keystone publication? Thanks, kbt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] Re: C-Liner Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:07:55 -0600 Chris--I got this last month. Hope they are still on schedule. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee English" To: "Steve Hoxie" Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:24 AM Subject: Re: CalScale FM C-liner PRR Antenna Supports > The cliner antenna is finishing now. > We are mounting the sample parts on a body today and > hope to get into production very soon > > it will take about 2 months for production to finsih > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:14:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Ketstone index From: Jerry Britton On 11/22/00 11:04 AM, Keith B. Thompson - Sun (thompson@ridgeback.East.Sun.COM) wrote: > Does anyone know of an index for the PRRT&HS > Keystone publication? > Keystone Crossings, in the Library section... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/library/ --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:12:44 +0000 From: Roger Hensley Subject: RE: [PRR] Special Device 50' box > From: "Rob Schoenberg" > To: , > Subject: RE: [PRR] Special Device 50' box > Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:00:10 -0500 > Importance: Normal > My info has them listed as X52's. Part of 100 cars numbered between > 89000-89099. > They were built some time between 1953 and 1958 but I don't have the > specifics... > Unfortunately that's all the info I have on them.... > > There's a class diagram on my web site at: > http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X52 I was referred there already and the diagram will help. It looks to be the car we're looking for. Now for the rest of the details... > Also, I have a reverse lookup that returns the class for a given car number > (freight cars only..) > It's near the bottom of http://prr.railfan.net/freight > > Rob I'll have to try that. Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:48:23 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: Trainmasters - which way was front? Joel > > Finally got around to running my PRR Atlas Trainmasters and was wondering > which way did PRR run these, short hood or long hood forward? Checked the > PRR books I have and there is no pictures in them that I could reference. > Another question, what service were the PRR SD35's used in, system wide or > where they assigned to a specific freight type? Thanks. > > Joel Akers / j83@mindspring.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > PRR ran most every type of road switcher long nose forward, and although the FM's were largely used as yard ajnd pusher units that appears to be true. Ball's book "The Pennsylvaniz Railroad 1940's-1950's shows a pair in pusher service at Gallitzen, Pa cab to cab, i.e. long noses out. When I saw them in yard service as single units, mostly the short nose was out, but they wwere set both ways. Bleive the SD-35's were used also in pusher sevice until near the end of PRR before PC when they got mixed up with all sorts of other power. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:52:12 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] RR Customer in Philadelphia I'm not sure if this one was a PRR or READING customer, but there was a rendering company that produced edible oils (yuk!) that smelled real bad, they operated a fleet of blakc tank cars labeled Jacob Stern & Company. Beleive it moight have been located down by the Penn Packing plant off Delaware Avenue. Don't imagine they are still in business. Anyone known of photos of these tanks? Specs? etc. TIA John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:52:28 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] RR Customer in Philadelphia I'm not sure if this one was a PRR or READING customer, but there was a rendering company that produced edible oils (yuk!) that smelled real bad, they operated a fleet of black tank cars labeled Jacob Stern & Company. Beleive it moight have been located down by the Penn Packing plant off Delaware Avenue. Don't imagine they are still in business. Anyone known of photos of these tanks? Specs? etc. TIA John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR S1 and T1 questions Date: Wed, 22 Nov 100 12:10:34 -0500 (EST) Cl.Bersano scribit: Claude, Sorry that I cannot help. I will forward your question on to others that may be able to get you an answer. ICC, which you give followed by a (?) below, was the Interstate Commerce Commission, a federal body that regulated interstate transportation, including railroad companies. (It no longer exists and was replaced by the Surface Transportation Board.) > Hello Mark. > > We had on the steam_tech discussion group a heated exchange about the = > world speed record by any steam engine. > > In the debate, a german participant mentionned the possibility of the S1 = > to have reached speeds leaving the english "Mallard" dead on her tracks. > > I myself added to the fire quoting a french book by L.M. Vilain, "La = > locomotive a vapeur et les grandes vitesses", in which Vilain quoted a = > german magazine, "Lok Magazine" and specifically issues #42 and #48. > Note: translation from french are mine (as well as typos). > > In Issue #42, about the S1, Vilain quotes: > " the speed limit was 120 mph, but the ICC (?) allowed the PRR to = > exceed that already high speed on > " a perfectly straight track section, where a speed of 226 km/h was = > reached, seemingly a speed > " record. > " Non offically, and during a non-documented attempt, the T1 reached = > 150 mph, but this performance, > " although technically possible seems to the a calculation result = > after time checks". > > In issue #48, about the T1, Vilain quotes: > " During trials, a 16 lightweight carriages (850 to 900 tons = > [metric?]) was pulled by a T1 at 209 km/h, > " probably on a light descent." > > Questions: Do you know anything about the facts above? Both L.M. = > Vilain and "Lok Magazin" were reputable sources... but noone in the USA = > seem to know anything about this fact. > > I find quite surprising that the PRR did not publicise more (the only = > place I saw mention "world fastest passenger steam locomotive" on a pix = > is on another PRR site, posting a PRR booklet) a fact, which, if true, = > was reasonably important. > > Thanks for your time. > Regards, Claude. > > mailto:bersano@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:16:33 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] Belated Sighting Over the Labor Day holiday weekend I was at the Salamanca (NY) Railroad Museum. 2 pieces of equipment there might be of interest to the list... PC 19413 (nee PRR) Cabooose.... blt 10-29 CR 245070 (nee PRR 608338 X51E blt 6-43 Regards Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - The Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network alcoman.Railfan.net - Homepage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:05:42 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New PRR Morning Sun Book Coming From: Jerry Britton There is a new Morning Sun Book announcement coming... "Trackside on the PRR: North of Washington, DC with Wayne Sherwin" by Michael Murray and Robert J. Yanosey First-hand recollections and photography from an on the ground Pennsy employee during the 1950s and 60s. Brakeman Wayne Sherwin took his camera along on his varied assignments between Potomac Yard and the Meadows and Enola. The retail price will be $54.95 and it is expected in January. ------- (sales plug follows) -------- MSB has not yet supplied a part number for this book. Once they do, Merchandise Service will, of course, be accepting Advance Reservations at a discount. Watch the "Merchandise Announce" list or "Merchandise Service Advance Reservations" web page for details! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:27:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Thanksgiving Greetings From: Jerry Britton To all subscribers, my best wishes for a happy and safe Thanksgiving weekend. If you are travelling, watch out for the other guy!!! As for myself, we'll be hosting friends and family tomorrow. On Sunday I am hitting the road with fellow lister Dave Wartell. Some wider-ranging plans fell through, so we'll be following the ex-PRR mainline from Lehman Place to Downingtown. Then it's off to Ken McCorry's for his open house. If you've never seen Ken's layout first-hand, this is a prime time to do it. He's only three minutes from the Downingtown exit of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. His layout has been vastly expanded since it was featured in Model Railroader. At that time, MR proclaimed it "World's Largest Home Layout". Since then, Ken has added a 24' by 32' addition! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 15:02:46 -0600 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] Happy Thanksgiving Happy thanksgiving to everyone on the list. Count among your blessings the ability to partake in a great hobby and live in a great nation where political disputes are not settled with bullets. Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:05:01 -0800 (PST) From: Geoffrey Van Dooren Subject: [PRR] I am planning a layout of Lancaster so I am searching for information about Lancaster around 1954. Anyone who can help me? Thank you, Geoffrey __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] PRR - PC U33C radiator fairing Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:55:31 -0500 Y'all, Does anyone have digital pictures showing the fairings (flares) at the leading edge of the radiator housing on PRR / PC General Electric U33C locomotives? Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: Over 70,000 visitors and more than 1300 pictures and growing . . . CLICK ON: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=205020 alternative route: www.photopoint.com and enter the e-mail address jimsix@ncweb.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ESpot21@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 18:52:46 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Geoffrey, or anyone responding to Geoffrey- I'd be interested in said information as well. I am planning a layout of Lancaster too, only one year later in 1955. Unfortunately I don't have any info either right now. If I come across anything, I'll be glad to pass it along. Happy Thanksgiving! Thanks, Evan Miller geoff_vandooren@yahoo.com wrote: I am planning a layout of Lancaster so I am searching for information about Lancaster around 1954. Anyone who can help me? Thank you, Geoffrey ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 21:47:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Belated Sighting Will, That built date is a bit old for the X-51E "PRR 608338 X51E blt 6-43". Also I ran the number through Rob Schoenberg's list and it came up as an X-31C. Ed Martin...a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving ...member of the gang of two ...banned from NMRA events by Ed Hall Director, Cajon Div., PSR, NMRA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:09:52 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) --part1_bd.91ccb74.274eb770_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow Listers Heres wishing a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving from Milwaukee,WI !! Jon S. --part1_bd.91ccb74.274eb770_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow Listers
Heres wishing a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving from Milwaukee,WI !!
Jon S. --part1_bd.91ccb74.274eb770_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jcfmmf@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:19:29 EST Subject: [PRR] South Penn Open House --part1_82.34692e0.274eb9b1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, please list our open house on your site; we have completed Horseshoe Curve at about 3/4 scale in HO from the base of the hill to the summit. Grand Opening Friday 11/24 2-9:30pm Open Friday 12/1; 12/8; 12/15; 12/22; 12/29; 1/5; 7-9:30pm Saturday 11/25; 12/2; 12/9; 12/16; 12/23; 12/30; 1/6; 1-4pm Sunday 11/26; 12/3; 12/10; 12/17; 1/7; 1-4pm All SPF's welcome [esp. from Hgb.] to see protypical length trains run on the curve; memberships open. TY, Jerry Finefrock, Secy. SPRR --part1_82.34692e0.274eb9b1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, please list our open house on your site; we have completed Horseshoe
Curve at about 3/4  scale in HO from the base of the hill to the summit.

Grand Opening Friday 11/24 2-9:30pm
Open Friday 12/1; 12/8; 12/15; 12/22; 12/29; 1/5; 7-9:30pm
Saturday 11/25; 12/2; 12/9; 12/16; 12/23; 12/30; 1/6; 1-4pm
Sunday 11/26; 12/3; 12/10; 12/17; 1/7; 1-4pm

All SPF's welcome [esp. from Hgb.] to see protypical length trains run on the
curve; memberships open.

TY, Jerry Finefrock, Secy. SPRR --part1_82.34692e0.274eb9b1_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Robert Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Belated Sighting Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:52:24 -0500 Ed, You must have missed a digit. The X31c's are in the 60800-61099 and 62800-63309 series... I tried 608338 and got back that it fits into either X51e or X51k. Number series is: 607950 - 608623. If you check my X51 page (http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X51) The X51's are listed as rebuilds from X32 and X33's with new bodies on reused underframes. The X51e's were rebuilt in 1958. The built date is probably that of the original X32 or X33. I don't have built date info on the X32's & X33's so I can't comment if this sounds correct or not... Anyway, it sure sounds like it's really and X51e to me! Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of ELM2@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 9:47 PM To: alcoman@net.bluemoon.net; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Belated Sighting Will, That built date is a bit old for the X-51E "PRR 608338 X51E blt 6-43". Also I ran the number through Rob Schoenberg's list and it came up as an X-31C. Ed Martin...a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving ...member of the gang of two ...banned from NMRA events by Ed Hall Director, Cajon Div., PSR, NMRA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sam cali" Subject: [PRR] PRR structures Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:59:36 -0000 Hello list, I have noticed some structures along the PRR that follow a similar design. One is the yard office at Frankford Junction. The other ones are not as large. One is along Mantua Ave in Phili. at Zoo int. I think it was some kind of relay building or section house. The third one is almost under the High Line at the Amtrak yard at 30th st. It is near the car washer between the Septa Powelton Ave. yard and the High Line. I have no idea what this one was used for. It has a long loading platform made of stone attached to it. The buildings were obviously not built with the intentions of impressing anyone, they are strictly utilitarian. They are made of concrete blocks and have shingled hip roofs. What gives them a "family" appearance is that concrete blocks were NOT used on the corners of the structures. Instead, red brick was used. It almost gives the appearance of "quoins". My questions are, Does anyone have an idea when they were built? I would guess it was sometime after the 1930s. Were there any other buildings of this design on the Pennsy, or were they just in the Phili aera? After all, Pennsy was the standard railroad of the world. Sam Caliciotti Jr. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 20:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR structures --- sam cali wrote: > What gives them a "family" > appearance is that > concrete blocks were NOT used on the corners of the > structures. Instead, > red brick was used. It almost gives the appearance > of "quoins". > > My questions are, Does anyone have an idea when > they were built? I > would guess it was sometime after the 1930s. Were > there any other buildings > of this design on the Pennsy, or were they just in > the Phili aera? The concrete block walls with brick corners sounds like the "new" freight station in Latrobe, Pa. Don't recall exactly when it was built, but I think mid-1950's. Hm. There is also a little building in Blairsville, Pa., originally a shelter for the crossing gate tender on Main St. (or whatever they call it in Blairsville). It was painted many years ago, but I think it too was concrete block with brick corners, and dates from the same general time frame, perhaps the late '50's. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:36:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Belated Sighting Rob, Very good point, I must have missed a digit. Yikes! I stand corrected. Ed Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:59:06 -0800 From: Charles Friedlein Subject: [PRR] 1982 PRRT&HS Annual Meeting Date Sorry for the cross posts but I need to try to reach as many society members as possible. I'm need to find the dates the 1982 annual meeting was held in Strasburg, PA. I attended the business meeting only a day or two after having visited the Wilmington shops where I took a bunch of photos of GG-1s on the scrap lines, and a couple of other locos, etc., there. I also took some photos during the meeting dates at the RR Museum of PA--I had gotten permission to go out among the equipment in the outside area which was not open to the public at that time. I just came across those photos and am trying to catalog them and would like to get as close to the actual date(s) as possible that I took these photos, but can't remember when the meeting was held. Can anyone help me out? TIA, Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Structures Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 14:04:40 -0500 Sam and list, Structures of this type (concrete block with brick corners) were not restricted to the PHL area. There were several I recall seeing around the system. A specific one that comes to mind is the crew relief and MW gang building vic. 6th Street in Sharpsville, PA on the E&P. I believe it was build ca. early '50s and torn down by CR just a few years ago. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:50:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Sweetland Book From: Jerry Britton Sweetland's new book, "Pennsylvania Railroad Pictorial, Volume Two: St. Louis to New York", by Four Ways West, has shipped. I received my signed copy from the author today. Another excellent work! Anyone know if any others are currently in the works? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 18:39:40 +0100 From: Ken Meyer Subject: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Does anyone know of a web site that lists HO models for PRR motive power? Particularly, the Electrics. I was wondering who made GG1 models in HO scale. What is still available? Has anyone tried to remotor the AHM version of the GG1 for slower starting speeds? And those oversized driver flanges any success with replacing them? Any modeling tips on the GG1 is most appreciated. Thanks, Ken Meyer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:23:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 --part1_2d.3fe4894.27506098_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken The newer model (HO) GG-1 by IHC has smaller flanges and runs much smother. Check for large full page ads in Model Railroader for more details. . . also I believe IHC has a Website. Good Luck. Jon S. PRRT&HS #3079 --part1_2d.3fe4894.27506098_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken
 The newer model (HO) GG-1 by IHC has smaller flanges and runs
much smother. Check for large full page ads in Model Railroader
for more details. . . also I believe IHC has a Website.  Good Luck.
Jon S.
PRRT&HS #3079 --part1_2d.3fe4894.27506098_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:55:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Lane Flyover ?? From: Michael Allen Can anybody tell me off of the top of their head when the Flyover at LANE was constructed?? THNX MEA ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:20:29 -0800 From: Charles Friedlein Subject: [PRR] 1982 PRRT&HS Annual Meeting Dates David & Ken, Thanks to you both for the May 14-15 dates for the meeting. Now I can narrow down the dates of the photos I took back then for cataloging. Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! X-Apparently-From: From: "Lady Of The Woods" Subject: Re: [PRR] (no subject) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:11:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0560F.A2D5E980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello listers Just want to let you all know, that in Sweedland (out side of Bridgeport = Pa.) I always see an old PRR locomotive, I guess its a drop off place = for people that have bought one. (locomotive) on Sat last week as i = drove by, i saw an RS3 (?) sitting on the siding. it was still in dgle and had Pennsylvania road name on it, i = could'nt get the road number, but over the years i have seen many loco.s = at this location ( E7's F units etc). This siding is located behind the old AllenWood steel co. on river road, = the Phila Daily News has a large Building there now. I have never been = able to find a way in to get a close look at the locos. so if anyone has = any idea what this siding is for, i'd like the info. Thanks Bill, Bluebell Pa. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0560F.A2D5E980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello listers
 
Just want to let you all know, that in = Sweedland=20 (out side of Bridgeport Pa.) I always see an old PRR locomotive, I guess = its a=20 drop off place for people that have bought one. (locomotive) on Sat last = week as=20 i drove by, i saw an RS3 (?) sitting on the
 siding. it was still in dgle and = had=20 Pennsylvania road name on it, i could'nt get the road number, but over = the years=20 i have seen many loco.s at this location ( E7's F units = etc).
This siding is located behind the old = AllenWood=20 steel co. on river road, the Phila Daily News has a large Building there = now. I=20 have never been able to find a way in to get a close look at the locos. = so if=20 anyone has any idea what this siding is for, i'd like the = info.
Thanks
Bill, Bluebell = Pa.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0560F.A2D5E980-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:11:00 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-GG1 Models Ken, I have three of the new IHC GG1s and like them a lot. Make sure you buy the "Premier" version with dual motors and flywheels. They are by far the best running GG1s out on the market today-not quite up to the performance of the new diesels, but still quite good. There are many "non-Premier" IHC models out there-beware! These can't compare in performance other than use as static models or dummy engines. A friend of mine did a repowering of his old AHM GG1 fleet several years ago. He replaced the old motor with a can type one and they do run very smoothly. No change was done to the wheels since he uses 100 code rail. If you check the PRR-List archives you will find tips on detailing the plastic GG1s -though a repaint will probably be needed. Charlie C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 20:02:57 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0571A.B4B06840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There has been a lot of announcements, discussion, and rumors over the = past year regarding new HO scale F-7 releases. So where do we stand = now? What is currently available? What is coming? Passenger? Freight? Thoughts on quality? Bill.Laird@usa.net ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0571A.B4B06840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There has been a lot of = announcements,=20 discussion, and rumors over the past year regarding new HO scale F-7=20 releases.  So where do we stand now?
 
What is currently = available?
What is coming?
Passenger?
Freight?
Thoughts on quality?
 
Bill.Laird@usa.net
 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0571A.B4B06840-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:12:30 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) On Sat, 25 Nov 2000, Bill Laird wrote: > There has been a lot of announcements, discussion, and rumors over the past year regarding new HO scale F-7 releases. So where do we stand now? > > What is currently available? -Intermountain (shell only for now, but available decorated PRR) -Several phases of Stewart -Athearn Classic -Model Rectifier Corp > What is coming? -Athearn Genesis -Highliners (undec shell kit, might be available already) > Thoughts on quality? For "currently available" the Intermountain is the best, but the separate grabs it comes with are rather fat. The Genesis/Highliners (it's the same shell) looks like it will be nicer, but not by much. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 21:45:50 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Walthers Budd cars Hello All... Ok its not exactly Pennsy related,except i'd like to see the Congo coaches and parlors modeled,but.... Along with the cars Walthers has announced... Are they planning to release a Budd baggage car with these? The reason i ask is i'd like to find a good version of a Budd baggage car (prefer a Sante Fe Chief baggage car) so i can model Amtrak no.1235. I know theres a brass version,but alas i can't afford that and i've already tried bashing a Athern car. This car was the car that carried my dad's body from Washington D.C.to Albany N.Y. Who knows...perhaps these were carried by PRR east of Chicago. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 22:22:07 -0500 From: Chris Brandt Subject: [PRR] MG Tower This morning I noticed that MG Tower has been boarded up. Does anyone know what's going to happen to it? -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:32:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MG Tower From: Jerry Britton On 11/25/00 10:22 PM, Chris Brandt at (cobrandt@eclipse.net) wrote: > This morning I noticed that MG Tower has been boarded up. > Does anyone know what's going to happen to it? > Boom, boom! MG has been slated for the wrecking ball since well before NS took over. My guess is that since it is a lot more durable than MO, AR, etc., and given its location and accessibility, they just haven't gotten to it yet. The "boarding up" is probably "risk avoidance", that is, lowering of their potential liability if railfans insist on going in. If a railfan breaks in through the boards, NS will likely have less liability if they hadn't boarded it up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:32:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MG Tower From: Jerry Britton On 11/25/00 10:22 PM, Chris Brandt at (cobrandt@eclipse.net) wrote: > This morning I noticed that MG Tower has been boarded up. > Does anyone know what's going to happen to it? > Boom, boom! MG has been slated for the wrecking ball since well before NS took over. My guess is that since it is a lot more durable than MO, AR, etc., and given its location and accessibility, they just haven't gotten to it yet. The "boarding up" is probably "risk avoidance", that is, lowering of their potential liability if railfans insist on going in. If a railfan breaks in through the boards, NS will likely have less liability if they hadn't boarded it up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Lane" Subject: [PRR] GLc & GLca Hoppers in S Scale Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 07:58:46 -0500 Hi All, A project that I have been working on with Southwind Models for about 1 year has been brought to a successful completion. Southwind is an S Scale only importer. I have just seen the production samples of the PRR GLc and GLca hoppers. They are outstanding! The builder went out of his way to make the necessary corrections from the pilot model. They have full interior detail, have couplers installed, and a factory paint job that is second to none. The most noticeable difference between the models is the Brake stand vs. the Ajax brake wheel. There are only 50 pieces of each imported. For the uninitiated, I have included links to photos of the Prototype. Sorry, no model photos (yet) This car will go very nicely with the H31, H21, H22 H25, H31and H32 hoppers that have been imported previously. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/GLc.jpg http://users.snip.net/~billlane/GLca.jpg If you are interested, please contact: Jettie Padgett Southwind Models P.O. Box 3175 Plant City Fl. 33564-3175 Phone 813-752-1636 Fax 813-752-0656 Thank You Bill Lane ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:09:38 EST Subject: [PRR] express/mail storage cars List, In the 50's the Reading sold ten of its BXMu class, express (mail storage), box cars to the Pennsy. These cars were very similar to the Pennsy's X-29 cars; the number of side panels being the most notable difference. I have found numerous photos of the large PRR box cars in express service but the smaller car is being elusive. Can anyone direct me to pictures of these cars on the Pennsy. I am collecting the information for a future HO scale modeling project. Many thanks in advance! Evan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sam cali" Subject: [PRR] MG Tower Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:42:05 -0000 >On 11/25/00 10:22 PM, Chris Brandt at (cobrandt@eclipse.net) wrote: > > > This morning I noticed that MG Tower has been boarded up. > > Does anyone know what's going to happen to it? > > Are you guys talking about MG in Trenton? I thought that was gone already. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "E. Mike" Subject: Re: [PRR] MG Tower Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:00:17 -0000 What MG is in Trenton? All that's there in FAIR and MILLHAM. MG is Mid-Grade tower between SLOPE and BF. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] MG Tower Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:58:21 -0500 Sam Cali inquired... >> > > > Are you guys talking about MG in Trenton? I thought that was gone >already. No... MG ("Mid-Grade") Tower near Horseshoe Curve, up above Sugar Run Road. It is one of the most architecturally-interesting of the many intriguing Pennsy towers, somewhat reminiscient of FEDERAL STREET, the octagonal tower that once merged Conemaugh and Mainline traffic in Pittsburgh. There is some possibility that MofW/track equipment is being stored in the MG building, but I haven't been able to confirm this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "sam cali" Subject: [PRR] MG Tower Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:14:34 -0000 >From: "E. Mike" > >What MG is in Trenton? All that's there in FAIR and MILLHAM. MG is >Mid-Grade tower between SLOPE and BF. > Thanks for the clarification. The other MG was located at MP1.4 on the Belvidere Delaware Branch in Trenton. It controlled movements at MG and the operator was in charge of some of the block stations up the branch. I've never actualy been to that spot yet, but I'm sure that tower is long gone. Sam _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:56:13 EST Subject: [PRR] MP = BF15a's BF16's --part1_97.d99601e.2752c4dd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What were the main difference's between the BF15a and BF16? According to the Withers bookthe overall length of the A-units was the same but I can't tell if the wheelbase was the same. I can tell the the rear screens on the BF15a have horizontal braces and the nose doors are different sizes, and the rear door is inset. Any other carbody differences I have missed. Horsepower was different of course but I am interested in external differences. Thanks Brian J carlson --part1_97.d99601e.2752c4dd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What were the main difference's between the BF15a and BF16? According to the
Withers bookthe overall length of the A-units was the same but I can't tell
if the wheelbase was the same. I can tell the the rear screens on the BF15a
have horizontal braces and the nose doors are different sizes, and the rear
door is inset. Any other carbody differences I have missed. Horsepower was
different of course but I am interested in external differences. Thanks

Brian J carlson --part1_97.d99601e.2752c4dd_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: farbland@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 14:56:13 EST Subject: [PRR-FAX] MP = BF15a's BF16's What were the main difference's between the BF15a and BF16? According to the Withers book the overall length of the A-units was the same but I can't tell if the wheelbase was the same. I can tell the the rear screens on the BF15a have horizontal braces and the nose doors are different sizes, and the rear door is inset. Any other carbody differences I have missed. Horsepower was different of course but I am interested in external differences. Thanks Brian J carlson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> Create your business web site your way now at Bigstep.com. It's the fast, easy way to get online, to promote your business, and to sell your products and services. Try Bigstep.com now. http://click.egroups.com/1/9183/3/_/586931/_/975272407/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] MP = BF15a's BF16's Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:26:20 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C057D6.5F96A560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Battery boxes/fuel tank are reversed on each model (also BF15s may have = a round fuel gauge while the BF16s usually had a vertical sight glass); = BF16 has a ventilation screen just behind the cab access door (this is = for an air compressor); the BF16 also has a ventilation hood up on the = roof while the BF15 does not (also for the air compressor); BF16 has = sand hatches on the pilot (the little boxes) while the BF15 has them up = on the nose of the locomotive; BF15 has fuel filler receptacle inset = into each side of the car body while the BF16 has a small notch in the = very bottom of the car body above the fuel tank; look at the height of = the batten strip that is parallel to the bottom of the car body -- BF15 = is about 4 inches higher than the BF16; BF15 cab access ladder rails = attach at their lowest point to the steps below the car body while the = BF16 attach to the base of the car body -- also the bottom of these = rails on the BF15 curl inward before attaching while the BF16 does not = (look closely, you'll see what I mean); the roof of the BF15 has an = access panel just behind the horn while the BF16 does not; BF15 had a = Wabco single chime horn while the BF16 had a Nathan triple chime horn; = the grab irons on the side opposite the rear access door are different = -- one has vertical grabs while the other has horizontal (can't remember = which is which now); BF15 has louvered ventilation grids while the BF16 = has screens; each model has different style jacking pads too..... also = the BF15 has smaller number boards...... That's about all I can remember off the top of my head. Look at a = specific locomotive because there may be additional minor detail = changes. Kris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: FarbLand@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Cc: PRR@egroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 2:56 PM Subject: [PRR] MP =3D BF15a's BF16's What were the main difference's between the BF15a and BF16? According = to the=20 Withers bookthe overall length of the A-units was the same but I can't = tell=20 if the wheelbase was the same. I can tell the the rear screens on the = BF15a=20 have horizontal braces and the nose doors are different sizes, and the = rear=20 door is inset. Any other carbody differences I have missed. Horsepower = was=20 different of course but I am interested in external differences. = Thanks=20 Brian J carlson=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C057D6.5F96A560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Battery boxes/fuel tank are = reversed on each=20 model (also BF15s may have a round fuel gauge while the BF16s = usually=20 had a vertical sight glass); BF16 has a ventilation screen just = behind the=20 cab access door (this is for an air compressor); the BF16 also has = a=20 ventilation hood up on the roof while the BF15 does not (also for the = air=20 compressor); BF16 has sand hatches on the pilot (the little boxes) while = the=20 BF15 has them up on the nose of the locomotive; BF15 has fuel filler = receptacle=20 inset into each side of the car body while the BF16 has a small = notch in=20 the very bottom of the car body above the fuel tank; look at the height = of the=20 batten strip that is parallel to the bottom of the car body -- BF15 is = about 4=20 inches higher than the BF16; BF15 cab access ladder rails attach at = their lowest=20 point to the steps below the car body while the BF16 attach to the base = of the=20 car body -- also the bottom of these rails on the BF15 curl inward = before=20 attaching while the BF16 does not (look closely, you'll see what I = mean); the=20 roof of the BF15 has an access panel just behind the horn while the BF16 = does=20 not;  BF15 had a Wabco single chime horn while the BF16 had a = Nathan triple=20 chime horn; the grab irons on the side opposite the rear access door are = different -- one has vertical grabs while the other has horizontal = (can't=20 remember which is which now); BF15 has louvered ventilation grids while = the BF16=20 has screens; each model has different style jacking pads too..... also = the BF15=20 has smaller number boards......
 
That's about all I can remember off the = top of my=20 head.  Look at a specific locomotive because there may be = additional minor=20 detail changes.
 
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 FarbLand@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 = 2:56=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] MP =3D BF15a's = BF16's

What were the main difference's between = the BF15a=20 and BF16? According to the
Withers bookthe overall length of the = A-units=20 was the same but I can't tell
if the wheelbase was the same. I can = tell=20 the the rear screens on the BF15a
have horizontal braces and the = nose=20 doors are different sizes, and the rear
door is inset. Any other = carbody=20 differences I have missed. Horsepower was
different of course but = I am=20 interested in external differences. Thanks

Brian J = carlson=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C057D6.5F96A560-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:14:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] MG Tower From: Michael Allen Trenton's MG was a cabin located where the Bel Del crossed MontGomery Street. There was a long discussion about its precise location, the same confusion about to towers having the same telegraph code, and the vagaries of railroad vs cardinal direction on the other PRR list some months ago. You should be able to find it in the archive at e-groups. MEA On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:14:34 -0000 "sam cali" writes: > > > > >From: "E. Mike" > > > > >What MG is in Trenton? All that's there in FAIR and MILLHAM. MG > is Mid-Grade tower between SLOPE and BF. > > > > > Thanks for the clarification. The other MG was located at MP1.4 on the > Belvidere Delaware Branch in Trenton. It controlled movements at MG > and the operator was in charge of some of the block stations up the branch. > I've never actualy been to that spot yet, but I'm sure that tower is long > gone. > > Sam > _________________________________________________________________________ ____________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : > http://explorer.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:53:20 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] express/mail storage cars There is a picture in the PRR Color Guide Vol #2 on page 31 of the ex RDG cars. I believe Bethlehem Car Works did this car and had it available with the appropriate PRR decals. ----------------------- Ken McCorry ---------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:41:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) Guys, Mind if I help? << There has been a lot of announcements, discussion, and rumors over the past year regarding new HO scale F-7 releases. So where do we stand now?>> I would say we are standing in Fat Cotton ... here is why and my Scuttlebutt column in December will address this all but I will share it with all here. <> *There is the Bachmann which I have seen run and runs as well or nearly as well as the KATO and was rated by RMJ to be as close to KATO as you would want, and I might add can be made to run better... The shell is for your recycle bin, it sucks. *Then there is the standard that all are judged by, the Stuart. Great models but lots of work to make them "say" Pennsy. They do need work but are the industry workhorses, worth reworking and available. F-units in all configurations, just for the PRR modeler *Then there is now the Intermountain F-7 A&B with a brand new drive that is extremely quiet, extremely powerful and lots of options with trucks and fuel tanks. Now available! Check their website. *Then there is the Life Like F-3 phase 2 which again runs great, and is affordable, but needs the same amount of work as the Stuart's to make it "say" PRR. I own three and plan to make them PRR. If you want to follow it I will do an article on them. <> What should be on the market in less than 30 days is the Athearn Genesis F 7 phase 1 (very early like April of '49 production run) are you all familiar with that configuration? I did the lettering diagrams and the color chips for them with help from my brother Ed Martin, and close friends Mike Bradley and Mark Kerlick after many hours of research. It will be correct. But the configuration is a bit different from what most guys might remember. The shells are bring painted and the drives are being finished, look for them in December. * Then there is the Highliner shells which I believe Paul is waiting for the correct etched metal grills to come in from Plano. They should be shipping anytime. I hate to say that as he always puts egg on my face. But this unit will allow you to do all the PRR variations of F units except the FP's. I have and A-B-A set here in my den and it is a wonderful kit, but make no mistake it is a modeling project and still needs the basic PRR additions and a powerframe. Passenger? Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and tolerances are. Freight? *I almost forgot the good old Athearn/Globe unit. Dated but with the AMB windows installed they make a very convincing and doable F-unit. Let's face it there are millions of these on the market and no matter how good of modelers we are you cannot ignore them by sure numbers they are in our face. They need work and the drive needs five-wired but hey as you can tell all these units need work nothing is ready to run. Thoughts on quality? Athearn Genesis and Intermountain are on a par, with Stuart right behind and don't forget the Bachmann powerframe and the Life Like P1K and then ROCO and then the work horse is the Athearn/Globe. All fine models in their own way and I hope this puts things in perspective. Bill.Laird@usa.net>> All I hope this helps and I am open for comments... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:00:40 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] K4s engines 3855 and 5452 Hello list, I'm trying to pin down the exact (month and year) dates that K4s engines 3855 and 5452 were retired, dropped, or scrapped. I have Edson's PRR All-time Steam Roster, I've reviewed Keystone Steam and Electric, and I also own Many Faces of the Pennsy K4. None have the information. Based on information gleaned from MP229 forms, 3855 was dropped sometime after the 1954 edition, while 5452 was dropped sometime after the 1955 edition. Can any of you help me find closer dates? Thanks in advance (from Korea) Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:30:20 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Simple Helix CALCULATOR From: Jerry Britton To the modelers, a guy on the N scale DCC list wrote a helix calculator that is accessed via web. The URL is below, and I've added a link to it on the Modeling page on Keystone Crossings as well. > I wrote a supersimple java program to calculate Helix elevations and > other. Just plug your radius, grade, laps and get results. > The program is really simple: a couple of PI multiplication and an arctan. > > http://nietzsche.mit.edu/auro/trains/tech/HELIX/ > --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:46:09 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Ken, I have been able to successfully turn down the flanges on my GG1 drivers with just a file and a NMRA gauge, using the motor to turn the wheels. Don't forget to round the flanges off. Don't leave sharp edges. Be sure to hold the model right side up when turning the wheels. Instinct is to turn the engine over, but then the filings fall into the motor!. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Ken Meyer wrote: > > Does anyone know of a web site that lists HO models for PRR motive > power? Particularly, the Electrics. I was wondering who made GG1 models > in HO scale. What is still available? > > Has anyone tried to remotor the AHM version of the GG1 for slower > starting speeds? And those oversized driver flanges any success with > replacing them? > > Any modeling tips on the GG1 is most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Ken Meyer > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:08:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Ken & Andy, Did the same to my AHM GG-1 using the unit's motor to turn the wheels, a cutoff disk in the Dremel Mototool and the hose from the shop vacuum next to the flange being turned down. The shell was removed and the frame held upside down in the bench vise. Went extremely fast and the vacuum collected all of the machinings. A fine file was used to dress the curve into the new flange then sanding film to polish it. The unit was also repowered with an A-Line remotoring kit, the one with the flywheels already installed, made for the Athearn GP/SD diesel units. Plus made the pantographs functional just in case I ever go crazy and build operable overhead! Evan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:26:09 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > <> > > *There is the Bachmann which I have seen run and runs as well or nearly as > well as the KATO and was rated by RMJ to be as close to KATO as you would > want, and I might add can be made to run better... The shell is for your > recycle bin, it sucks. I got 2 at the same time; One ran fine and another was a growler. With the crappy shell, don't bother. > *Then there is the standard that all are judged by, the Stuart. Great models > but lots of work to make them "say" Pennsy. They do need work but are the > industry workhorses, worth reworking and available. F-units in all > configurations, just for the PRR modeler "Stewart" > *Then there is the Life Like F-3 phase 2 which again runs great, and is > affordable, but needs the same amount of work as the Stuart's to make it > "say" PRR. I own three and plan to make them PRR. If you want to follow it > I will do an article on them. Well, if you want an F7 it needs lots of work;-) I got em for the drives and will be tossing the shells as I need them. > Passenger? > > Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone > else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I > find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again > there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and > tolerances are. If the Highliners shells weren't so expensive a slice-n-dice of one into an FP7 would be desirable. > Thoughts on quality? > > Athearn Genesis and Intermountain are on a par, with Stuart right behind and > don't forget the Bachmann powerframe and the Life Like P1K and then ROCO and > then the work horse is the Athearn/Globe. All fine models in their own way > and I hope this puts things in perspective. I'd rank the P1K power above the Bachmann, for sure as while the Bachmann can run as good or better it seems to be hit or miss. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:31:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) From: Jerry Britton On 11/27/00 10:26 AM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone >> else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I >> find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again >> there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and >> tolerances are. > > If the Highliners shells weren't so expensive a slice-n-dice of one into > an FP7 would be desirable. > ER Models did the FP7 most recently. They are considering a re-run, but they were rerunning the freight sharks first, which just shipped. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 10:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > On 11/27/00 10:26 AM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > > >> Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone > >> else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I > >> find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again > >> there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and > >> tolerances are. > > > > If the Highliners shells weren't so expensive a slice-n-dice of one into > > an FP7 would be desirable. > > > ER Models did the FP7 most recently. They are considering a re-run, but they > were rerunning the freight sharks first, which just shipped. It's still the same Roco shell. It's good enough that I have some, not good enough that it won't eventually be poked and prodded. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:10:12 EST Subject: [PRR] PENNSY POWER For anyone who has been looking for an original Pennsy Power (1962) I just got a list from the Northern Ohio Railway Museum - they have a used copy for sale for $40.00. http://www.trainweb.org/norm They also have a lot of new and used Traction books for sale - as you may recall this group count a PRR X-23 among their restoration projects Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:53:06 EST From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) Derrick, I have heard of the growler units and here is the fix... Remove the universal drive system and remove all the flashing from the parting beads. I have not had to do it but I will do it justrt because. This I have been told is the source of the noise. I have also heard that replacing them with ALINE parts is also a solution, which ahve I not needed to try. Try this and see what you think. I paid all of $10.00 for the group I bought from a popular mail order house. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rla0220" Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:10:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 11/27/00 Sam, Read your post about MG Trenton. I rode past there many times on the BL5, BL6, BL1, BL2a and numerous ore trains enroute to Bethlehem Steel via the LV at Pburg. Good memories of my Penn Central days. There's all kinds of information on PRR FAX. Another list member Al Buchan can also shed some light on MG Trenton. Good hunting. Rich A. Penn Central trainman 1974-1976. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:42:56 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New Keystone Arrived Today From: Jerry Britton Just an FYI, see Subject line! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Knorek" Subject: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:19:24 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0589E.91E11BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings to all- What is/was the name of the PRR/CR line that runs/ran south off of the Pittsburgh Line at South West Jct to Youngwood, New Stanton, Hunter, Scottsdale, Everson, Moyer, and Connellsville? What is/was the name of the connecting track between it at County Jct. and the Pittsburgh Line at CP-Rade? Are both still in use? If so, by whom? Thank you! Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com Conrail Detroit Shared Assets Area website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/SAA/SAA.htm Lost and Found Railroad Photographs website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Found/found.htm Today's Random Railroad Image Find: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Random/Random.htm New Brighton, PA, PRR Flyover website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrighton.htm CSX in Southeast Michigan website: http://members.aol.com/jsundin357/plydiam.html Railroading in Ohio website (still under construction): http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/ohio.htm All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand Enemies And when they catch you, they will kill you But first they have to catch you... From Richard Adams' _Watership Down_ ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0589E.91E11BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings to all-
What is/was the name of the PRR/CR line that runs/ran south off = of
the=20 Pittsburgh Line at South West Jct to Youngwood, New Stanton,
Hunter,=20 Scottsdale, Everson, Moyer, and Connellsville?
 
What is/was the name of the connecting track between it
at County Jct. and the Pittsburgh Line at CP-Rade?
 
Are both still in use?
 
If so, by whom?
 
Thank you!
 
 
Jeff Knorek
 jknorek@msen.com
 
Conrail Detroit Shared Assets Area = website:
http://www.msen.com/~jk= norek/SAA/SAA.htm
 
Lost and Found Railroad Photographs = website:
http://www.msen.com= /~jknorek/Found/found.htm
 
Today's Random Railroad Image = Find:
http://www.msen.c= om/~jknorek/Random/Random.htm
 
New Brighton, PA, PRR Flyover = website:
http://www.msen= .com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrighton.htm
 
CSX in Southeast Michigan = website:
http://members.ao= l.com/jsundin357/plydiam.html
 
Railroading in Ohio website (still = under=20 construction):
http://www.msen.com/~jknor= ek/ohio.htm
 
  All the world will be your = enemy, Prince of=20 a Thousand Enemies
  And when they catch you, they will kill=20 you
  But first they have to catch=20 you...
        From Richard Adams' = _Watership Down_
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0589E.91E11BE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:50:09 EST Subject: [PRR] HOLLIDAYSBURG CAR SHOP --part1_7f.c980fec.27544d31_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aka former PRR's SAM REA SHOP received a reprieve today regarding the previously announced shop closing. A press conference at 2:00 PM today, called by Rep. Bud Shuster (R) 9th District PA, announced that the Hollidaysburg Car Shop would remain open per a letter from NS President David Goode. The news release implied that commitments are forthcoming from NS, CSX and UP to ensure repair work is directed toward Hollidaysburg. However, the bottom line still depends on greater use of the facility from other insourcing contract work. It would appear that more emphasis will be directed toward accomplishing this goal to make Hollidaysburg profitable. The previously announced closing notice of November 20th indicated that Hollidaysburg was under-utilized, working only at 30% capacity with high operating costs/overhead, with indications of a monthly electric bill of $140,000. Payroll at Hollidaysburg generates $19 million annually for the local economy. The announced reprieve cancels hearings on the previously announced closure, which were to begin on Wednesday, Nov 29, 2000, in Altoona. We hope for the best in the greater Hollidaysburg-Altoona area. David Seidel Altoona PRRT&HS NRHS --part1_7f.c980fec.27544d31_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aka former PRR's SAM REA SHOP received a reprieve today regarding the
previously announced shop closing.  A press conference at 2:00 PM today,
called by Rep. Bud Shuster (R) 9th District PA, announced that the
Hollidaysburg Car Shop would remain open per a letter from NS President David
Goode.  

The news release implied that commitments are forthcoming from NS, CSX and UP
to ensure repair work is directed toward Hollidaysburg.  However, the bottom
line still depends on greater use of the facility from other insourcing
contract work. It would appear that more emphasis will be directed toward
accomplishing this goal to make Hollidaysburg profitable.

The previously announced closing notice of November 20th indicated that
Hollidaysburg was under-utilized, working only at 30% capacity with high
operating costs/overhead, with indications of a monthly electric bill of
$140,000. Payroll at Hollidaysburg generates $19 million annually for the
local economy.

The announced reprieve cancels hearings on the previously announced closure,
which were to begin on Wednesday,  Nov 29, 2000, in Altoona.

We hope for the best in the greater Hollidaysburg-Altoona area.

David Seidel
Altoona
PRRT&HS
NRHS --part1_7f.c980fec.27544d31_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:23:26 -0500 Y'all, I am afraid that I do not have the same negative feelings about the Stewart Hobbies F-unit models. I have building what I believe to be accurate prototype models for more than 30 years and believe that the Stewart F7s and F9 are the BEST way to go -- better than either Highliners/Athearn or InterMountain. Permit me to explain. First, the grilles on the Stewart F7s and F9 are far superior in detail and in accuracy to the photo-etched metal grilles of the InterMountain and the Highliners/Athearn model. They will not pop loose or warp into a wave pattern as the temperature changes. Both the IM and Highliners metal grilles warp and wage and there is no way short of total and constant temperature control to avoid this. There is no way to make up for the lack of bolt detail and accurate size and number of louvers in the grilles that the modeled on Stewart F7 and F9s have and the metal grilles of IM and Highliners do not have. Second, the shape of the nose of the Stewart F-units is as good as that of the IM or Highliners models. The Stewart marker lights are more accurate and when drilled and fitted with DA clear marker lenses, are superior. Third, . . . a lot of people knock the windshield openings of the Stewart Fs as not just right. They are not. I agree. HOWEVER, . ..when trimmed in the corners and along the bottom edge, then fitted with AMB laser-cut windshields, the result is superior to that of either the IM or the Highliners. Fourth, the stirrup steps are too hefty on the Stewart Fs. but are easily replaced with intermountain F7 stirrups that are readily available, inexpensive, and easy to install. Sure, the IN and the Highliners Fs are excellent, but all around, the Stewart will cost you less and provide you with a model that is equally realistic and much more rugged. Checkout these pictures as evidence that I offer: CRR F7 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28253252 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28253244 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28466867 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28466874 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28466868 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1579246&p=28466872 ACL F9 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1900348&p=17020427 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1900348&p=17020413 Stewart F-unit cab/nose spliced onto a P2K E7 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1537472&p=15271698 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1537472&p=15271680 My Pennsy F-units are in the works now! Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: Over 70,000 visitors and more than 1300 pictures and growing . . . CLICK ON: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=205020 alternative route: www.photopoint.com and enter the e-mail address jimsix@ncweb.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" Cc: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > > > <> > > > > *There is the Bachmann which I have seen run and runs as well or nearly as > > well as the KATO and was rated by RMJ to be as close to KATO as you would > > want, and I might add can be made to run better... The shell is for your > > recycle bin, it sucks. > > I got 2 at the same time; One ran fine and another was a growler. With the > crappy shell, don't bother. > > > *Then there is the standard that all are judged by, the Stuart. Great models > > but lots of work to make them "say" Pennsy. They do need work but are the > > industry workhorses, worth reworking and available. F-units in all > > configurations, just for the PRR modeler > > "Stewart" > > > *Then there is the Life Like F-3 phase 2 which again runs great, and is > > affordable, but needs the same amount of work as the Stuart's to make it > > "say" PRR. I own three and plan to make them PRR. If you want to follow it > > I will do an article on them. > > Well, if you want an F7 it needs lots of work;-) I got em for the drives > and will be tossing the shells as I need them. > > > Passenger? > > > > Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone > > else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I > > find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again > > there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and > > tolerances are. > > If the Highliners shells weren't so expensive a slice-n-dice of one into > an FP7 would be desirable. > > > Thoughts on quality? > > > > Athearn Genesis and Intermountain are on a par, with Stuart right behind and > > don't forget the Bachmann powerframe and the Life Like P1K and then ROCO and > > then the work horse is the Athearn/Globe. All fine models in their own way > > and I hope this puts things in perspective. > > I'd rank the P1K power above the Bachmann, for sure as while the Bachmann > can run as good or better it seems to be hit or miss. > > -D > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] FP7 model (HO) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:30:00 -0500 Y'all, When compared to the Stewart, InterMountain, and Highliners F-units, there simply is no good FP7 available in HO-scale, not plastic, not brass. So, . .. I kitbashed my own splicing a Stewart F-unit cab/nose onto the Atlas/Roco FP7 body. Ain't perfect, but provides the best results I have seen yet. Click on: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1594609&p=15271939 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1594609&p=15193160 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1594609&p=15193162 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=205020&a=1594609&p=15193164 The drive is the Atlas/Roco drive with the frame machined to accept the Stewart F-unit trucks, motor, drive linkage, and fuel tank. One could conceivably do a PRR FP7 in this same way. However, my next FP7 will be a kitbash using the InterMountain and/or the Highliners F-unit body kits. Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: Over 70,000 visitors and more than 1300 pictures and growing . . . CLICK ON: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=205020 alternative route: www.photopoint.com and enter the e-mail address jimsix@ncweb.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick J Brashear" Cc: Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > > > On 11/27/00 10:26 AM, Derrick J Brashear (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > > > > >> Yes, there is the FP7 from ATLAS/ROCO, ATLAS/KATO, CON COR, now by someone > > >> else... This is a very good unit. Some say the nose is screwed up but I > > >> find it more than acceptable and I will do one up for my loco fleet. Again > > >> there is no perfect F-unit, you just need to know where your standards and > > >> tolerances are. > > > > > > If the Highliners shells weren't so expensive a slice-n-dice of one into > > > an FP7 would be desirable. > > > > > ER Models did the FP7 most recently. They are considering a re-run, but they > > were rerunning the freight sharks first, which just shipped. > > It's still the same Roco shell. It's good enough that I have some, not > good enough that it won't eventually be poked and prodded. > > -D > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Answer and K2 and reefer question Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:07:22 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, all, Awhile back I posted a question about when the R50b began being built - and just yesterday I stumbled across the answer in an old KEYSTONE. The year was 1928. Which helps me because I have just decided to back-date my layout to about 1922, so no R50b's - but the cool billboard reefers which were run then makes it worth it. And here's the K2 question - which of the available trailing truck castings from either Cal Scale or PSC are the best match for the trailing truck of a K2? Finally, does anyone know if some manufacturer makes the necessary materials to do a milk car for Supplee in HO? You see these cars on the Middle Division going back and forth from Huntingdon, where they came off the Huntingdon & Broad Top and there were a number of Supplee dairies along the Middle Division. Thanks! George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F-7 models (HO) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:59:56 -0600 Hi guys--Jerry wrote: > > ER Models did the FP7 most recently. They are considering a re-run, but they > > were rerunning the freight sharks first, which just shipped. > Then Derrick responded: > > It's still the same Roco shell. It's good enough that I have some, not > good enough that it won't eventually be poked and prodded. > Not quite. The original Atlas/Roco shell is the only way to go. In the Atlas/Roco rerun and in the ER Models initial run, Roco "updated" the shell to include a 48" dynamic brake fan replacing the 36" fan of the initial run whaich was correct for PRR. While it is not difficult to file the big fan off and replace it with a smaller one, they also cast a large flat area under the fan which is much more difficult to poke and prod. A good PRR FP7 would be really nice. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 04:20:56 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question --- Jeff Knorek wrote: > Greetings to all- > What is/was the name of the PRR/CR line that > runs/ran south off of > the Pittsburgh Line at South West Jct to Youngwood, > New Stanton, > Hunter, Scottsdale, Everson, Moyer, and > Connellsville? South-west Branch > > What is/was the name of the connecting track between > it > at County Jct. and the Pittsburgh Line at CP-Rade? Radebaugh Branch > Are both still in use? The tracks of the South-west Br. from S-W Jct. to the Westmoreland-Fayette County line and the Radebaugh Branch were bought by Westmoreland county. Fayette county bought the portion from the county line to Connellsville. In addition, the two counties bought former B&O tracks which connected to the South-West Br. at Everson. Freight is moved by an organization calling itself the Southwest Pennsylvania RR. They use the the Radebaugh Br., and the South-West south of County Home. The track is, I believe, still in place from County Home to S-W Jct, but I don't know of any traffic on it for several years. There does not seem to be much activity on the South-West south of Everson, the former B&O line being used to connect to CSX near Connellsville. I'm not at all sure, but my impression is that there is move freight moved through the CSX connection than the NS connection. In addition to the SWP freight operstion, something called the Laurel Highlands RR runs steam excursions here and there, with their main base at Scottdale. There has been and is talk of developing an intermodal facility at the former Chrysler, later VW, now Sony plant south of New Stanton; and in aid of that, a connection to the former Western Maryland line a mile or so south of Everson. It's not clear whether that is actually in process or just somebody's pipe dream. So both are still in use, but not heavy use. Conrail moved many coal trains from a loading facility on the north side of Connellsville, as did the SWP early on, but there has been none of that for a few years now. > If so, by whom? See above ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:05:54 -0500 Subject: [PRR] N Scale Tower Survey From: Jerry Britton I have been asked by an N scale manufacturer to conduct a survey of the "PRR-Talk" list to determine the four most sought after towers for N scale modelers. Since there are some unique members to each list, and since it would not make sense to exclude them, I am also posting this to the "PRR-n_scale" list as well...so we can provide this manufacturer with one set of results. Please respond only once, and direct your response to me directly, off-list(s). Thank you. Please list the four towers you would most like to see produced in N scale, in no particular order. For example, my ballot: ROCKVILLE * BANKS VIEW MG * goes well w/new Model Railroad Stoneworks "Rockville Bridge" in N scale! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:31:09 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Answer and K2 and reefer question In a message dated 11/27/00 9:23:18 PM Central Standard Time, george.pierson@trnty.edu writes: << Finally, does anyone know if some manufacturer makes the necessary materials to do a milk car for Supplee in HO? >> Would any of the Funaro & Camerlengo cars be a starting point? Also, some of the NEB&W people did some articles on milk cars in (I believe) RMC years ago that might be helpful. Check the model railrorad magazine index. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:55:14 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Hi Ken, >Does anyone know of a web site that lists HO models for PRR motive >power? Particularly, the Electrics. I was wondering who made GG1 models >in HO scale. What is still available? Well, others have answered about plastic, and I second the IHC PREMIER reccomendation. Although these need extra detail as well, at least they pull more than 3 cars! As for other electrics, as well as models of the prototype GG-1, you're looking at brass. Here's a partial list of what's out there GG-1 - numerous manufacturers, most recently Precision Scale (mid '90s). This is a very nice model, and runs around $450 B1, O1c, P5, P5a (boxcab, modified), P5b, L6, E44 - Alco models. These are reasonable models of these motors, are usually undecorated, often need remotoring, and run about $300-$350. Alpha models released some in upgrtaded versions (eg B1, L6) and released an R-1, painted, that is SCARCE! Overland also did the P5 series, and these are better quaility than the Alcos, but they are more rare as well. Rail Classics has plans to do a number of PRR motors in HO including the P5 series, the R1 and the DD-2. As always, we look to someone to produce a resin P5! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:55:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question In a message dated 00-11-27 18:30:12 EST, jknorek@mail.msen.com writes: << What is/was the name of the PRR/CR line that runs/ran south off of the Pittsburgh Line at South West Jct to Youngwood, New Stanton, Hunter, Scottsdale, Everson, Moyer, and Connellsville? >> Southwest Secondary. NS still serves this line although now reduced to 1 or 2 trains a day. Mostly night locals switching local industries. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:05:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question In a message dated 00-11-28 07:33:28 EST, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << Freight is moved by an organization calling itself the Southwest Pennsylvania RR. They use the the Radebaugh Br., and the South-West south of County Home. The track is, I believe, still in place from County Home to S-W Jct, but I don't know of any traffic on it for several years. >> This past weekend I was at the museum at the Youngwood Depot, they told me NS is providing service usually 1 train a day sometimes 2. They swith Youngwood about 11:00 PM. I do not know if CR kept or NS acquired trackage rights. A new produce terminal is being built in the industrial park in Youngwood which will have a two track siding and expect daily delivery of several refeers. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:08:59 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question --- SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 00-11-28 07:33:28 EST, > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > >> The track is, I believe, still in place from County >> Home to S-W Jct, but I don't know of any traffic on >> it for several years. To clarify a bit, by "it" I meant "the track from County Home north to SW Jct". > This past weekend I was at the museum at the > Youngwood Depot, they told me NS > is providing service usually 1 train a day sometimes > 2. They swith Youngwood > about 11:00 PM. I do not know if CR kept or NS > acquired trackage rights. A > new produce terminal is being built in the > industrial park in Youngwood which > will have a two track siding and expect daily > delivery of several refeers. Could be that SWP and Westmoreland county had a parting of the ways. Assuming that, the county may have cut a deal with NS for freight service on the part of the line in Westmoreland county. It's been over a year since I have had regular contact with affairs in/around Youngwood. Up until then there had been "wars and rumors of war" involving any 2 or sometimes 3 of: The Laurel Highlands RR, the SWP, the county (each of them), the owner of the steam locomotive, the owner of the passenger cars, the owner of the other passenger cars, the museum, CSX, Conrail/NS, and just about anyone else you can think of. Superimposed on that, there were some folks at the museum who have been known to make rather astonishing statements regarding past, current, and future events. So, almost anything is possible. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John W Rosenbauer" Subject: Re: [PRR] Greenburg-Connelsville track question Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:28:18 -0500 >In a message dated 00-11-27 18:30:12 EST, jknorek@mail.msen.com writes: > ><< What is/was the name of the PRR/CR line that runs/ran south off of > the Pittsburgh Line at South West Jct to Youngwood, New Stanton, > Hunter, Scottsdale, Everson, Moyer, and Connellsville? > >> >Southwest Secondary. NS still serves this line although now reduced to 1 or >2 trains a day. Mostly night locals switching local industries. NS does not operate on this line. It is owned by Westmoreland County and operated by the Southwestern Pennsylvania RR based in Youngwood. NS does interchange with the line at CP-Rade. J.W.Rosenbauer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:49:34 EST Subject: [PRR] E bay bidding --part1_39.d15d4df.2755583e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I should use when searching? --part1_39.d15d4df.2755583e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching
for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania.  Are the any other words I should use when
searching? --part1_39.d15d4df.2755583e_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] E bay bidding Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:09:41 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0596E.C31190DA Content-Type: text/plain These are probably "the key labels" for accessing PRR, however, at times predecessor lines Philadelphia, Baltimore & Washington (PB&W), Northern Central, Lines West... there are hundreds which comprise Pennsy, are used to identify an item. This is especially true if the item is very old. Chas -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:50 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] E bay bidding So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I should use when searching? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0596E.C31190DA Content-Type: text/html
These are probably "the key labels" for accessing PRR, however, at times predecessor lines  Philadelphia, Baltimore & Washington (PB&W), Northern Central, Lines West... there are hundreds which comprise Pennsy, are used to identify an item.  This is especially true if the item is very old.
 
Chas 
-----Original Message-----
From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:50 PM
To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com
Subject: [PRR] E bay bidding

So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching
for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania.  Are the any other words I should use when
searching?
------_=_NextPart_001_01C0596E.C31190DA-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:29:12 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C05947.93BC11A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have seen stuff (models) listed as Penn RR and Penna. RR. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NDBPRR@aol.com=20 To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 1:49 PM Subject: [PRR] E bay bidding So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by = searching=20 for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I should = use when=20 searching?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C05947.93BC11A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have seen stuff (models) listed as Penn RR and = Penna.=20 RR.
 
Gregg Mahlkov
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 NDBPRR@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, = 2000 1:49=20 PM
Subject: [PRR] E bay = bidding

So far I = have figured=20 out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching
for PRR, = pennsy, and=20 Pennsylvania.  Are the any other words I should use when=20
searching? ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C05947.93BC11A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:45:03 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding >So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by >searching for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I >should use when searching? "pennsy" should bring up all listings for "pennsy" and "pennsylvania"...I'd be terribly surprised to see anything "new" with your third search. My searches are "PRR" and "pennsy". If the seller can't be troubled to at least include one of the two, I'm not sure I really want to do business with someone that ignorant (that said, I have, and I have come close to regretting it!) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:27 -0800 > So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by searching > for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I should use when > searching? That's about it. Just 'pennsylvania' gives too many irrelevant hits for me, though, unless you're searching under railroad specific categories. 'Pennsylvania Railroad', 'Pennsylvania RR', 'Pennsylvania Rail' gets most. There are some things listed under variations of 'Penn RR' too. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:07:45 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding Greetings to NDBPRR and the list: Sometimes sellers list an item with the designations P.R.R., Penn Railroad (or RR), or Pa. Railroad, instead of PRR. If you have local interests, you might also try search terms such as Renovo, Meadows, Enola, Pitcairn, etc. This has its limits, though, as searching with a broad term such as "Chicago" or "St. Louis" would get you all kinds of railroad listings that have nothing to do with PRR. Hope this helps. Dan Cupper NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > So far I have figured out that I can access E bay PRR listings by > searching > for PRR, pennsy, and Pennsylvania. Are the any other words I should > use when > searching? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:16:53 -0800 Bruce F. Smith writes: > "pennsy" should bring up all listings for "pennsy" and "pennsylvania"...I'd > be terribly surprised to see anything "new" with your third search. Ebay's searches are word based, so unfortunately that doesn't work. Results for 'pennsy' and 'pennsylvania' are disjoint. > My searches are "PRR" and "pennsy". If the seller can't be troubled to at > least include one of the two, I'm not sure I really want to do business > with someone that ignorant (that said, I have, and I have come close to > regretting it!) On the other hand, that can be where the bargains are. I tend to be looking for books lately, though, rather than models, and it's easier to accurately describe a book without knowing the subject matter than to describe a model without knowing about it! -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCSUS]" Subject: RE: [PRR] E bay bidding Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:31:32 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0597A.31F50FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" But eBay searchs understand the "*" wildcard, so penn* will get you penn, penna, pennsy, pennsylvania, etc. Much more than you'll ever want if you search the whole of eBay. Best to limit this type of search to just the RR sub-tree (or other relevant areas of eBay). -----Original Message----- From: Matthew J. Brown [mailto:morven@byz.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:17 PM To: PRR Talk List Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding Bruce F. Smith writes: > "pennsy" should bring up all listings for "pennsy" and "pennsylvania"...I'd > be terribly surprised to see anything "new" with your third search. Ebay's searches are word based, so unfortunately that doesn't work. Results for 'pennsy' and 'pennsylvania' are disjoint. > My searches are "PRR" and "pennsy". If the seller can't be troubled to at > least include one of the two, I'm not sure I really want to do business > with someone that ignorant (that said, I have, and I have come close to > regretting it!) On the other hand, that can be where the bargains are. I tend to be looking for books lately, though, rather than models, and it's easier to accurately describe a book without knowing the subject matter than to describe a model without knowing about it! -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0597A.31F50FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] E bay bidding

But eBay searchs understand the "*" = wildcard, so penn* will get you penn, penna, pennsy, pennsylvania, = etc.  Much more than you'll ever want if you search the whole of = eBay.  Best to limit this type of search to just the RR sub-tree = (or other relevant areas of eBay).

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew J. Brown [mailto:morven@byz.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 3:17 PM
To: PRR Talk List
Subject: Re: [PRR] E bay bidding


Bruce F. Smith writes:
> "pennsy" should bring up all listings = for "pennsy" and
"pennsylvania"...I'd
> be terribly surprised to see anything = "new" with your third search.

Ebay's searches are word based, so unfortunately that = doesn't work.  Results
for 'pennsy' and 'pennsylvania' are disjoint.

> My searches are "PRR" and = "pennsy".  If the seller can't be troubled to at
> least include one of the two, I'm not sure I = really want to do business
> with someone that ignorant (that said, I have, = and I have come close to
> regretting it!)

On the other hand, that can be where the bargains = are.  I tend to be looking
for books lately, though, rather than models, and = it's easier to accurately
describe a book without knowing the subject matter = than to describe a model
without knowing about it!

-Matt



---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", = send the message "help" to
"listserv@dsop.com".

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0597A.31F50FC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:04:25 -0500 From: Christopher Chany Subject: [PRR] "Pittsburg Model Railroad Club" Listers, Is anyone on this list associated with the Museum that was at one time the Pittsburg club? I have a question about their sub-road bed construction and hope it might get answered faster this way than sending snail mail; The way I usually do. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:41:01 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Ken:

One other point I don't think anybody else has mentioned regarding the IHC Premier GG-1's.  There are at least 2 different versions of these. 

In the beginning, IHC's GG-1s had one motor, no flywheels.  Then the Premier line came out which added 2 flywheels (there may have or may not have been a version with just 1 flywheel, I'm not sure).  Finally, the current version has 2 motors and 2 flywheels.  This is the one you really want.  It weighs around 2 lbs and can pull just about anything and also has improved slow speed response over the single motor versions.  The motors are both can motors and don't have a high current draw.

I'm unaware of a method of telling which version is which by just looking at the box...  Looking at the diagram on the inclosed instruction sheet should tell you though.

Jeff Warner
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:28:21 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: Re: [PRR] "Pittsburg Model Railroad Club" Chris, The URL of their web site is http://www.fyi.net/~wpmrm/ Hope that helps. At 04:04 PM 11/28/2000 -0500, Christopher Chany wrote: >Listers, > >Is anyone on this list associated with the Museum that was at one time >the Pittsburg club? I have a question about their sub-road bed >construction and hope it might get answered faster this way than sending >snail mail; The way I usually do. > >Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jeff Knorek" Subject: [PRR] Bayard Branch Question Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 18:43:06 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C0596B.0BD2A1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anybody know when the Bayard Branch (to Canton OH) was built? What kind of traffic did it see? Thank you! JK Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com Conrail Detroit Shared Assets Area website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/SAA/SAA.htm Lost and Found Railroad Photographs website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Found/found.htm Today's Random Railroad Image Find: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Random/Random.htm New Brighton, PA, PRR Flyover website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrighton.htm CSX in Southeast Michigan website: http://members.aol.com/jsundin357/plydiam.html Railroading in Ohio website (still under construction): http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/ohio.htm All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand Enemies And when they catch you, they will kill you But first they have to catch you... From Richard Adams' _Watership Down_ ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C0596B.0BD2A1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anybody know when the Bayard = Branch (to Canton=20 OH) was built?
What kind of traffic did it = see?
 
Thank you!
 
JK
 
 
Jeff Knorek
 jknorek@msen.com
 
Conrail Detroit Shared Assets Area = website:
http://www.msen.com/~jk= norek/SAA/SAA.htm
 
Lost and Found Railroad Photographs = website:
http://www.msen.com= /~jknorek/Found/found.htm
 
Today's Random Railroad Image = Find:
http://www.msen.c= om/~jknorek/Random/Random.htm
 
New Brighton, PA, PRR Flyover = website:
http://www.msen= .com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrighton.htm
 
CSX in Southeast Michigan = website:
http://members.ao= l.com/jsundin357/plydiam.html
 
Railroading in Ohio website (still = under=20 construction):
http://www.msen.com/~jknor= ek/ohio.htm
 
  All the world will be your = enemy, Prince of=20 a Thousand Enemies
  And when they catch you, they will kill=20 you
  But first they have to catch=20 you...
        From Richard Adams' = _Watership Down_
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C0596B.0BD2A1E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:20:15 -0500 (EST) From: Patrick James Rieger Subject: Re: [PRR] "Pittsburg Model Railroad Club" On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Christopher Chany wrote: > Is anyone on this list associated with the Museum that was at one time > the Pittsburg club? I have a question about their sub-road bed > construction and hope it might get answered faster this way than sending > snail mail; The way I usually do. Just so everyone knows, the name of the organization is now the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum. They switched from being a club to a museum back in 1985 (some members are rather touchy if you call the museum a club, it has to do with legal and tax stuff). I used to be a member until I moved out of the area over a year ago. They are having their holiday show now if you are interested in checking out the place. As for your sub-road bed question, there are people better qualified than myself to provide an answer. Patrick =========================================================================== "...And the sons of Pullman porters, and the sons of engineers, ride their father's magic carpets made of steel." -"The City of New Orleans" by Steve Goodman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick James Rieger, http://www.dementia.org/~patrick Volunteer, The Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati (formerly Railway Exposition Company), Latonia, Kentucky PRRT&HS #6713 ============================================================================ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 19:29:30 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] "Pittsburg Model Railroad Club" --part1_42.d2ed564.2755a7ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: I am a member of the list and a member of the Board of Directors of the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum formerly Pittsburgh Model Railroad Historical Society formerly Pittsburgh Model Railroad Club. Ask away. I will try to answer your questions. Rich Orr --part1_42.d2ed564.2755a7ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi:

I am a member of the list and a member of the Board of Directors of the
Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum formerly Pittsburgh Model Railroad
Historical Society formerly Pittsburgh Model Railroad Club.

Ask away.  I will try to answer your questions.

Rich Orr --part1_42.d2ed564.2755a7ea_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] MP = BF15a's BF16's Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:53:22 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C0598E.0243CDC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I stand corrected. I was so anxious to answer the question that my = fingers engaged in typing before thy brain engaged in thinking. Oh = well, I tried. Next time. Kris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: FarbLand@aol.com=20 To: kkollar@cplx.net=20 Cc: PRR@egroups.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] MP =3D BF15a's BF16's=20 Thanks Kris I should have known you would reply given your expertise = on the=20 loco. I agree with your comments in regards to the BF15 and BF16. = However, I=20 was asking about the BF15a. I am looking at a side by side comparison = of a=20 BF15a and BF16 on pages 240 and 241 of volume 4 of the PRR Diesel = books. I'll=20 address your comments below.=20 Battery boxes and fuel tanks look to be in the same place. Fuel filler = is in=20 the same place. The fuel gauge comment is correct.=20 BF15a and BF 16 both have the ventalation screen on the side behind = the cab.=20 Given the overhead shots I have, roof top vents are the same also.=20 BF15a and BF 16 both have pilot mounted sandboxes=20 Both have fabricated frame, Batten strip are the same. (Nice photo = page 237=20 bottom)=20 Hand rails are the same for the cab doors.=20 BF15a, BF16 neither has roof top access panel.=20 Horns were different when BF15a's were delivered, changed at a later = date to=20 match BF16, (going to need to pick a unit for this detail)=20 Opposite side grabs are both vertical, BF15 had horizontal grabs.=20 BF15a and BF16 had screens over the ventalation grids, BF15a has a = horizontal=20 bar in the last two openings. (Why?)=20 Number boards on the BF15a match BF15. BF16 boards were larger=20 Jacking pads look similiar.=20 In a message dated 11/26/2000 6:14:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 kkollar@cplx.net writes:=20 Battery boxes/fuel tank are reversed on each model (also BF15s may = have a=20 round fuel gauge while the BF16s usually had a vertical sight = glass); BF16=20 has a ventilation screen just behind the cab access door (this is = for an=20 air compressor); the BF16 also has a ventilation hood up on the roof = while=20 the BF15 does not (also for the air compressor); BF16 has sand = hatches on=20 the pilot (the little boxes) while the BF15 has them up on the nose = of the=20 locomotive; BF15 has fuel filler receptacle inset into each side of = the car=20 body while the BF16 has a small notch in the very bottom of the car = body=20 above the fuel tank; look at the height of the batten strip that is=20 parallel to the bottom of the car body -- BF15 is about 4 inches = higher=20 than the BF16; BF15 cab access ladder rails attach at their lowest = point to=20 the steps below! the car body while the BF16 attach to the base of = the car=20 body -- also the bottom of these rails on the BF15 curl inward = before=20 attaching while the BF16 does not (look closely, you'll see what I = mean);=20 the roof of the BF15 has an access panel just behind the horn while = the=20 BF16 does not; BF15 had a Wabco single chime horn while the BF16 = had a=20 Nathan triple chime horn; the grab irons on the side opposite the = rear=20 access door are different -- one has vertical grabs while the other = has=20 horizontal (can't remember which is which now); BF15 has louvered=20 ventilation grids while the BF16 has screens; each model has = different=20 style jacking pads too..... also the BF15 has smaller number = boards......=20 That's about all I can remember off the top of my head. Look at a = specific=20 locomotive because there may be additional minor detail changes.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C0598E.0243CDC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I stand corrected.  I was so = anxious to answer=20 the question that my fingers engaged in typing before thy brain engaged = in=20 thinking.  Oh well, I tried.
 
Next time.
 
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 FarbLand@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 = 7:02=20 PM
Subject: Re: [PRR] MP =3D = BF15a's BF16's=20


Thanks Kris I should have known you = would=20 reply given your expertise on the
loco. I agree with your comments = in=20 regards to the BF15 and BF16. However,  I
was asking about = the BF15a.=20  I am looking at a side by side comparison of a
BF15a and = BF16 on=20 pages 240 and 241 of volume 4 of the PRR Diesel books. I'll =
address your=20 comments below.

Battery boxes and fuel tanks look to be in the = same=20 place. Fuel filler is in
the same place. The fuel gauge comment is = correct.

BF15a and BF 16 both have the ventalation screen on = the side=20 behind the cab.
Given the overhead shots I have, roof top vents = are the=20 same also.

BF15a and BF 16 both have pilot mounted sandboxes=20

Both have fabricated frame, Batten strip are the same. (Nice = photo=20 page 237
bottom)

Hand rails are the same for the cab = doors.=20

BF15a, BF16 neither has roof top access panel.

Horns = were=20 different when BF15a's were delivered, changed at a later date to =
match=20 BF16, (going to need to pick a unit for this detail)

Opposite = side=20 grabs are both vertical, BF15 had horizontal grabs.

BF15a and = BF16 had=20 screens over the ventalation grids, BF15a has a horizontal
bar in = the last=20 two openings. (Why?)

Number boards on the BF15a match BF15. = BF16=20 boards were larger

Jacking pads look similiar.

In a = message=20 dated 11/26/2000 6:14:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
kkollar@cplx.net=20 writes:


Battery boxes/fuel tank are reversed on each model (also = BF15s=20 may have a
round fuel gauge while the BF16s usually had a = vertical sight=20 glass); BF16
has a ventilation screen just behind the cab access = door=20 (this is for an
air compressor); the BF16 also has a ventilation = hood up=20 on the roof while
the BF15 does not (also for the air = compressor); BF16=20 has sand hatches on
the pilot (the little boxes) while the BF15 = has them=20 up on the nose of the
locomotive; BF15 has fuel filler = receptacle inset=20 into each side of the car
body while the BF16 has a small notch = in the=20 very bottom of the car body
above the fuel tank; look at the = height of=20 the batten strip that is
parallel to the bottom of the car body = -- BF15=20 is about 4 inches higher
than the BF16; BF15 cab access ladder = rails=20 attach at their lowest point to
the steps below! the car body = while the=20 BF16 attach to the base of the car
body -- also the bottom of = these=20 rails on the BF15 curl inward before
attaching while the BF16 = does not=20 (look closely, you'll see what I mean);
the roof of the BF15 has = an=20 access panel just behind the horn while the
BF16 does not; =  BF15=20 had a Wabco single chime horn while the BF16 had a
Nathan triple = chime=20 horn; the grab irons on the side opposite the rear
access door = are=20 different -- one has vertical grabs while the other has =
horizontal=20 (can't remember which is which now); BF15 has louvered =
ventilation grids=20 while the BF16 has screens; each model has different
style = jacking pads=20 too..... also the BF15 has smaller number boards...... =

That's about all I=20 can remember off the top of my head.  Look at a specific =
locomotive=20 because there may be additional minor detail changes.=20


------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C0598E.0243CDC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 22:52:36 -0500 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] "Pittsburg Model Railroad Club" Christopher: If you are talking about the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Museum in Gibsonia, you can e-mail them at: wpmrm@fyi.net. Jeff Warner ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:27:39 -0800 From: Charles Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Tower Survey Jerry, While towers differed across the Pennsy system, a good one to consider making that would have some "generic" look common to some brick ones that I've seen would be OVERBROOK Tower, just off City Line Ave in Philadelphia. It's Flemish bond brickwork might present a bit of a problem for tooling (as most manufacturers have a standard overlapping pattern preprogrammed into their machinery), but is certainly a common spotting feature of many PRR towers as I'm told. I have four-sided line drawings of it which I believe are "as originally built" and I also have some photos I took of it in the early 1990s when I lived not far from there. Let me know if this might be a good candidate. Chuck Friedlein PRRT&HS National #1883 Phila. Chapt. PRRT&HS #1203 Cyber Division #34 Jerry Britton wrote: > I have been asked by an N scale manufacturer to conduct a survey of the > "PRR-Talk" list to determine the four most sought after towers for N scale > modelers. Since there are some unique members to each list, and since it > would not make sense to exclude them, I am also posting this to the > "PRR-n_scale" list as well...so we can provide this manufacturer with one > set of results. Please respond only once, and direct your response to me > directly, off-list(s). Thank you. > > Please list the four towers you would most like to see produced in N scale, > in no particular order. > > For example, my ballot: > > ROCKVILLE * > BANKS > VIEW > MG > > * goes well w/new Model Railroad Stoneworks "Rockville Bridge" in N scale! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:04:28 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Bowser N Scale N-5 Cabins From: Jerry Britton Bowser N scale N-5 cabins are selling so well, that for part #'s 37101 (original lettering), 37102 (Shadow Keystone), and 37103 (new lettering), Bowser is already up to a third series of three road numbers!!! Actually, the second series is still shipping as follows: 37101 - 2nd series only has 12 cars left in stock 37102 is in the 2nd series but less than 100 left 37103 is in 2nd series The third series is already run but will not ship until each second series sells out. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:27:58 -0500 PRR Listers: Does anyone on the list know why the PRR never purchased some DL-109's from Baldwin? I understand that the Pennsy did lease the Baldwin Demonstrator for a short time but that did not result in orders. I found it interesting that the railroad did not purchase any DL-109's since the PRR seemed to be very open in buying all kinds of diesel electrics from all builders in the mid to late 1940's. It is weird because I can easily picture a DL-109 in brunswick green with fie golden stripes and a train phone antennea! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:01:52 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 --part1_4a.e277415.27566650_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the Dl109 was made by Alco not Baldwin and the PRR entered the diesel game rather late. They also had no FT's, E6's or other early diesels as they were committed to the success of the T-1's, J's and Q2's --part1_4a.e277415.27566650_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the Dl109 was made by Alco not Baldwin and the PRR entered the
diesel game rather late.  They also had no FT's, E6's or other early diesels
as they were committed to the success of the T-1's, J's and Q2's --part1_4a.e277415.27566650_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:12:43 -0500 Ted:- The DL-109 was an American Locomotive Co. product, not a Baldwin product, and it was only produced prior to World War II, being replaced by the PA-1 after the War. When the DL-109 was being produced, the PRR was interested in developing the T1 for passenger service. PRR was late into buying passenger Diesels, and missed the early models like the E6 from EMD and the DL-109 from Alco. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrews, Ted" To: "'PRR-Talk'" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:27 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 > PRR Listers: > > Does anyone on the list know why the PRR never purchased some DL-109's from > Baldwin? I understand that the Pennsy did lease the Baldwin Demonstrator > for a short time but that did not result in orders. > > I found it interesting that the railroad did not purchase any DL-109's since > the PRR seemed to be very open in buying all kinds of diesel electrics from > all builders in the mid to late 1940's. > > It is weird because I can easily picture a DL-109 in brunswick green with > fie golden stripes and a train phone antennea! > > Ted Andrews > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:10:37 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 In a message dated 11/29/00 7:49:52 AM Central Standard Time, Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com writes: << Does anyone on the list know why the PRR never purchased some DL-109's from Baldwin? I understand that the Pennsy did lease the Baldwin Demonstrator for a short time but that did not result in orders. I found it interesting that the railroad did not purchase any DL-109's since the PRR seemed to be very open in buying all kinds of diesel electrics from all builders in the mid to late 1940's. >> If you are referring to the Alco DL109, by the time Pennsy bought diesels, Alco was offering the PA. PRR first road diesels were EMD E7's in 1946. First Alco PA's in 1947. If you are referring to the babyface Baldwin demo diesels, Pennsy bought the babyface all right, but in the form of Centipedes in 1947. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:45:36 -0500 Jeff, The Bayard Branch was built by the C&P in sections - from Bayard to Hanover completed in 1851 and from Hanover to Wellsville in 1852. The section of the C&P between Bayard and Alliance (later known as the Mahoning Secondary) was completed in 1851 as part of the Cleveland to Hanover construction. The section between Yellow Creek and Bayard was double track until around 1965 when the section between Shale and Bayard was single tracked. I was Ass't Supervisor-Track in that territory at that time and was in charge of the work trains picking up the old Number 1 track. I also ran a couple of ditching trains down the branch. The section between Bayard and Fairhope (Canton) was completed by the PFW&C in 1926 and was only single track. In the 1960s it was a freight only branch, the only time it saw any passenger traffic is when there was a problem between Fairhope and Pittsburgh on the main line (PFW&C) which required detouring. Some of the freight traffic included: coal out of the Ohio Valley (Powhaten, etc.) for Cleveland, Ashtabula and west. ex-lake ore from Cleveland and Ashtabula to Mingo and Wheeling. ex-lake ore from Cleveland to the Mon. Valley. east and west merchandise freight between Canton and Conway (and to and from points beyond). Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:05:03 -0500 From: "John Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 DL109's were Alco. John Ryan "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > PRR Listers: > > Does anyone on the list know why the PRR never purchased some DL-109's from > Baldwin? I understand that the Pennsy did lease the Baldwin Demonstrator > for a short time but that did not result in orders. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 100 11:36:50 -0500 (EST) Al Buchan scribit: > > Some of the freight traffic included: > > ex-lake ore from Cleveland to the Mon. Valley. > east and west merchandise freight between Canton and Conway (and to and from > points beyond). I like your term "ex-lake ore". One can hardly call it lake ore when it's no longer floating on the lake! As to mechandise freight, we yung'uns who never worked on the railroad always have this same question when it comes to the Pennsy's multiplicity of parallel routes: was there a preferential routing for the freight trains? I.e. did freight train "always" operate via the Bayard Branch, whereas freight train "always" operated via the Fort Wayne? And did the third possibility exist as well, i.e., did some trains operate randomly by one route or the other, depending on which one was less congested? -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 11:06:03 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Backdating (was Answer and K2 and reefer question) Hi George, you wrote: >Awhile back I posted a question about when the R50b began being built - and >just yesterday I stumbled across the answer in an old KEYSTONE. The year was >1928. > >Which helps me because I have just decided to back-date my layout to about >1922, so no R50b's - but the cool billboard reefers which were run then makes >it worth it. Wow! What made you decide to do this? I guess this means no more T-1s pulling through Denholm! Obviously, this alters the locomotive mix considerably with a great deal more of the work being done by L1s and H class steamers. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:20:24 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Layout Descriptions Online From: Jerry Britton Notice to recent subscribers and a reminder to existing subscribers... Keystone Crossings encourages you to have it host a web site for your PRR layout...a place where you can share a description of your layout and some photos. Please consider participating if you do not already. See http://kc.pennsyrr.com/layouts/ For those that already participate, please take a look and see if yours needs updating! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:22:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola From: Jerry Britton InterMountain has just released a "USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola" lettered for PRR. They claim (on their web site) that the PRR purchased 750 of them. See http://www.intermountain-railway.com/nnew.htm 1) What PRR class would this have been? 2) What year did the PRR acquire these cars? Thanks in advance. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:04:54 -0500 Mark: As a general rule, PRR freights would operate over a specific route, as crews called for that train would be qualified over that route. In those cases where a train operated over another line due to operational problems, a qualified "pilot" would have to be added to the crew. Of course, if crews were qualified over both routes, this would not be necessary, but imagine the life of a crew caller if a train operated over different routes and he had to keep track of who was qualified over which route. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bej" To: "Al Buchan" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question > Al Buchan scribit: > > > > Some of the freight traffic included: > > > > ex-lake ore from Cleveland to the Mon. Valley. > > east and west merchandise freight between Canton and Conway (and to and from > > points beyond). > > I like your term "ex-lake ore". One can hardly call it lake ore when it's > no longer floating on the lake! > > As to mechandise freight, we yung'uns who never worked on the railroad always > have this same question when it comes to the Pennsy's multiplicity of parallel > routes: was there a preferential routing for the freight trains? I.e. did > freight train "always" operate via the Bayard Branch, whereas freight > train "always" operated via the Fort Wayne? And did the third possibility > exist as well, i.e., did some trains operate randomly by one route or the > other, depending on which one was less congested? > > -- > Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:01:50 -0500 From: "John Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola >From Rob Schoenberg's site, G-24 was a USRA 50 ton composite, but I'm not sure it was a drop bottom, even though the site calls the Intermountain car a G-24. The roster data shows 738 cars in Oct. 1944. John Ryan Jerry Britton wrote: > > InterMountain has just released a "USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola" > lettered for PRR. They claim (on their web site) that the PRR purchased 750 > of them. > > See http://www.intermountain-railway.com/nnew.htm > > 1) What PRR class would this have been? > > 2) What year did the PRR acquire these cars? > > Thanks in advance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:15:37 -0500 It's the same gon they do in HO. It's a G24. http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G24 has a bit of info and diagrams... I added the N scale info to the page... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Jerry > Britton > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 1:22 PM > To: PRR-Talk LIST > Subject: [PRR] USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola > > > InterMountain has just released a "USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola" > lettered for PRR. They claim (on their web site) that the PRR > purchased 750 > of them. > > See http://www.intermountain-railway.com/nnew.htm > > 1) What PRR class would this have been? > > 2) What year did the PRR acquire these cars? > > Thanks in advance. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:15:02 -0500 Thank you to all who replied to my question and reminding me about the origin of the DL-109 (Alco, not Baldwin. I should have looked it up first before I posted the question) It seems that it was more of a timing issue with the DL-109; it was too early in that the PRR was putting more hopes in steam development. When the PRR was interested in diesel in the mid to late 1940's, the DL-109 was no longer available from Alco but the PA-1's were. Once again, thanks for the input. I will be more careful in posting my questions such as when did Studebaker make the GP-30 (just kiddin) :P Ted Andrews standing in the corner in Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted [mailto:Ted.Andrews@woolpert.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 8:28 AM To: 'PRR-Talk' Subject: [PRR] PRR and the DL-109 PRR Listers: Does anyone on the list know why the PRR never purchased some DL-109's from Baldwin? I understand that the Pennsy did lease the Baldwin Demonstrator for a short time but that did not result in orders. I found it interesting that the railroad did not purchase any DL-109's since the PRR seemed to be very open in buying all kinds of diesel electrics from all builders in the mid to late 1940's. It is weird because I can easily picture a DL-109 in brunswick green with fie golden stripes and a train phone antennea! Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:25:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola In a message dated 11/29/00 1:11:23 PM Central Standard Time, RamblingReck@worldnet.att.net writes: << From Rob Schoenberg's site, G-24 was a USRA 50 ton composite, but I'm not sure it was a drop bottom, even though the site calls the Intermountain car a G-24. >> On my way out the door, so can't check references, but over time a lot of gondolas with drop bottoms (or ends) had them replaced with solid or fixed. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:21:32 -0500 Mark, et. al., You said> I like your term "ex-lake ore". One can hardly call it lake ore when it's no longer floating on the lake! --------------------- "ex-lake" is actually the correct (official) designation of that commodity at that time. ===================== As to merchandise freight, we yung'uns who never worked on the railroad always have this same question when it comes to the Pennsy's multiplicity of parallel routes: was there a preferential routing for the freight trains? I.e. did freight train "always" operate via the Bayard Branch, whereas freight train "always" operated via the Fort Wayne? And did the third possibility exist as well, i.e., did some trains operate randomly by one route or the other, depending on which one was less congested? --------------------- Yes there was a preferential routing for freight trains. However, having not been the Trainmaster for that territory I would have to look in the brief book for clues. I would suspect all of your cases to be correct, but rather than use the term "always" I would substitute "scheduled" - of course realizing the schedule would be subject to change depending on conditions. ============= Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:38:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] F3 History Lesson, List, I need a quick (less than 1000 words) history lesson from the diesel experts on the PRR F3 (EF-15/EH-15) Mainly interested in certain small details. I purchased the new G Scale F3's from USA Trains and plan on working them over to more represent a "better" model. This model comes with large number boards. Is this correct for an F3? F3's were built with small, did they recieve large boards later? What other external spotting differences are there between an F3 and F7 besides the extra fan. May change this F3 into an F7 if need be. More question may come later. Thanks, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] K2's and back-dating (longish) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:09:56 -0600 (CST) From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Hi, all, Thanks for some of your responses. While awaiting replies to my K2 question, I visited the magazine index website that is now run by Kalmbach and did a search for articles on K2's. Guess what? At least as far as I could tell, not one article has ever been done on these engines in the general model/prototype press. I was somewhat surprised because not only were these the first numerous class of 4-6-2's on the PRR, but some of them lasted into the early 1950's. Why am I back-dating? That's a little more complex but part of it is looking over two books - Alexander's ON THE MAIN LINE and Westing's STEAM AND SEMAPHORES. I've really fallen for the mix of early steel and wooden cars, the mix of semaphore and early position light signals, and the generally more interesting (to my eye, anyway) varieties of rolling stock. Some of this is also a result of reading the Clover House catalogue - there are some really neat early paint schemes (esp. the billboard reefers) that they offer and I would love to have but they would not have been around into 1950. Another factor for me is the narrow gauge which connects to my PRR Middle Division. As the Tuscarora Valley RR has evolved as a point-to-point n.g. that is operated every other month, some of the things that have made the pike more fun to operate for my crews involves, for example, a Ramsey Transfer, a device which was used to place n.g. trucks under st.g. cars. Now the last of these devices was retired in 1911, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was that they could not handle the greater tare weight of steel cars. Running mine in 1950 was stretching historical credulity to the limit. Moreover, much as I love the first generation diesels of the PRR, I have found that during my operating sessions, I and my crew tend to choose to run steam. I guess we just plain like it better and it gives more of the fantasy that operatiojns is all about. It helps that a number of my regular operators are themselves steam nuts, and one of them has a home layout firmly based in the 1920's. Also, I've been thinking about enhancing my operations of the n.g. by making fictitious but actually proposed connections between the TVRR and the Newport & Shermans Valley and the EBT. Modeling these connections as if they had been built will certainly make operating the n.g. more interesting but some of the rationale for train movements, scheduled conenctions, etc. makes more historical sense in 1920 than in 1950, when the only n.g. left in PA was the EBT. Finally (and this is what pushed me over the edge) I had the chance to buy a deceased modeler's collection of a good variety of 1920's-era equipment. Getting all this in one purchase gave me the impetus to actually back-date. And frankly, it's surprising how much from a 1950's era layout can still work for 1920. I figure that I'll be able to keep a little over 1/3 of my current collection of rolling stock and engines. Many (but not all) of the steam classes in existence in 1950 were there there in 1920. I'll miss my M1a and T1 but working up a K2 will be fun. Almost all my Bowser PRR hoppers are basically OK - all I have to do is loose the circle Keystone and put on vertical brakewheels. Yes, if I really want perfectly accurate cars, other changes will be needed, but one other nice part of my back-dating will be that the number of potential nit-pickers is greatly decreased. How many of us really know what was correct for c.1920? RE rolling stock, a number of flatcars are ok, with brakewheel changes; also the X29's can stay, subject to checking their paint schemes and brake wheels. The wooden towers on the Middle Division are fine and all I have to do is convert one of my two signal bridges from position lights to semaphores. I'm stretching things a bit here because even through the late 20's, I believe most of the Midd. Div. was still semaphore, but position lights are just so Pennsy that I may make an exception to my era. Here's a few other random thoughts on my new era. ALL front number plates are round; some engines still had an oil headlight box, although usually electrified; the L1's and I1's did not have air tanks on their pilot decks yet and they all had relatively small tenders; there were no (or almost no) round-roofed head-end equipment and there was no AC on passenger equipment; and (surprising to me) some engines in pictures from the period have no class or running lights on the front end, and if they do, they are more conventional lights, rather than the distinctive 4-legged lights we tend to associate with the PRR. Oh, and I get to have a few two-axle wooden cabin cars running. When I add it all up, I think it will be a fun change. Already I really get a kick out of watching all those vertical brakewheels rolling along. Now all I have to do is to check when prohibition started to see if some of my beer reefers belong or not. Further comments and questions are welcome. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 100 15:17:12 -0500 (EST) Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > As a general rule, PRR freights would operate over a specific route, as > crews called for that train would be qualified over that route. In those > cases where a train operated over another line due to operational problems, > a qualified "pilot" would have to be added to the crew. Of course, if crews > were qualified over both routes, this would not be necessary, but imagine > the life of a crew caller if a train operated over different routes and he > had to keep track of who was qualified over which route. I'm well aware of the pilot issue. Given the geography (of PRR trackage, not hills) between Fairhope (Canton), O. and Rochester, Pa. -- specifically the fact that the Fort Wayne and Bayard/River Branches parallel each other so closely -- and the "main line" status of the former and "near main line" status of the latter -- I would have thought it likely that more crews than not would have been qualified on both routes. And I guess I should learn not to write single-sentence paragraphs. :-) -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:22:55 -0500 Mark, Gregg, et. al., I'm not positive but it seems to me the guys running between Canton and Pittsburgh would be qualified on both the main line and the Bayard Branch as well as other lines. Brother Jack is an engineman for Amtrak operating out of Rensselaer, NY and is qualified to Montreal, Rutland, Boston, New York City and Buffalo. Can't get much more diversity than that. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] F3 History Lesson, Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:46:36 -0600 Hi Gary--I'm not an expert but these questions aren't too difficult. > > This model comes with large number boards. Is this correct for an F3? > No. > > F3's were built with small, did they recieve large boards later? > No. However, I believe the first order of F7's also had small boards. (Notice my feeble attempt to keep this simple by not mentioning F5.) > > What other external spotting differences are there between an F3 and > F7 besides the extra fan. > If it has chicken wire grills on the sides it is an F3. If it has stainless grills it is either an F3 or F7; you would have to see the dynamic brake fan to be sure. Beyond this it can get real complicated depending on which PRR order and the year being modeled. Some of the F3's changed their appearance over the years. Just like steam, get a photo! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:20:20 -0500 AL:- It's been a long time, but I thought crews on the PFW&C ran Conway-Crestline, Crestline-Fort Wayne, and Fort Wayne-Chicago. I was in Cleveland in 1964 with the traffic dept. and vaguely recall that the TrucTrains and "hot" freights used the main while tonnage trains used the Bayard Cutoff. Back then we still had "hot" trains of perishables, freight forwarder traffic and LCL, and New England traffic on which PRR competed with NYC and Erie. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Buchan" To: "Mark Bej" ; "Gregg Mahlkov" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [PRR] RE: Bayard Branch Question > Mark, Gregg, et. al., > > I'm not positive but it seems to me the guys running between Canton and > Pittsburgh would be qualified on both the main line and the Bayard Branch as > well as other lines. > > Brother Jack is an engineman for Amtrak operating out of Rensselaer, NY and > is qualified to Montreal, Rutland, Boston, New York City and Buffalo. Can't > get much more diversity than that. > > Al > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:40:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] F3 History Lesson, Steve, Thanks for the post. This F Unit is a model that was produced with good intennsions, but like many models before, it has its problems by sharing loco class "phase" detailing.. It appears this is a combination of F3's and F7's. Being this is a Large G Scale Loco, fixing the problems are going to be major jobs since replacement detail parts are not readily available. USA Trains describes these as F3's. It has wire screen similar to early F's, but photos of F3's show a different style and placement of the screening. It has nothing close to resembling F7 grills either. Looks like I may have to keep what is on it. I maybe able to modify a little but may not be worth the trouble. Although common on most roads, the Freight Pilot needs to be changed as well. PRR had Passenger Pilots. I will have to see how difficult it will be to build that. Then we come to the Number Boards. If no F3's had them I either have to remove them and construct small ones or convert this into an F7 with the addition of a Dynamic Fan. This by the way, looks easier then converting the nose to small number boards. Once that work is done, I then have to Pennsyize it with nose rings and antenna Again, both will need scratch built. And then a better paint and decal job to top it off. So it looks like I gots lots of work ahead. Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:55:19 EST Subject: [PRR] Bayard Cut-Off My Grandfather worked the PRR out of Alliance - l never heard of a Bayard "Branch;" lt was always called the Bayard Cut-off. On the Pennsy a "Cut-off" was not a short cut, but a way of getting the drag freight out of the way of the Passenger and Premium freight trains. I'd say that Bayard was basically the "back door" to Pittsburgh. Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:06:14 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Which Region Were These Divisions In? From: Jerry Britton Folks, I am working on a quick little project that will benefit many: a "family tree" graphic which illustrates the divisional/regional structure of the PRR from 1941 through 1968. The first segment, 1941-1951 is clear, as is the fourth, 1956-1964, and the fifth, 1964-1968. I need some help on the second and third, which cover 1951-1955. I have the division lists for these periods. However, each "operating division" (1951-1954) or "operating district" (1955) was a member of a region. There are six divisions that I am unsure of which region they belonged to. If anyone has an ETT for any of the following divisions, dated between 1951 and 1955, please check the cover. The region will be named directly above the division/district name. Here are the divisions in question: * Susquehanna (will be either Eastern or Central) * Northern (will be either Eastern or Central) * Lake (I fully expect this to be Central) * Panhandle (will be either Central or Western) * Cincinatti (I fully expect this to be Western) * Southwestern (I fully expect this to be Western) PLEASE, no conjecture or assumptions. I need a response from someone with the appropriate employee timetable in hand! Many thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Six" Subject: [PRR] PC GP38 model complete Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:12:43 -0500 Y'all, Well, . . . my Atlas PENN CENTRAL GP38 is essentially complete. It can be viewed by clicking on: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=205020&a=10099615 I will eventually get around to removing the cab to get at the crew and do some paint work on them. I may also play with the weathering a bit more after the paint has had week or two to harden completely. But for all intents and purposes, the model is complete and its time to move on to another. Jim Six Madison Village, Ohio Visit my GROWING model railroad website at: Over 70,000 visitors and more than 1300 pictures and growing . . . CLICK ON: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Albumlist?u=205020 alternative route: www.photopoint.com and enter the e-mail address jimsix@ncweb.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 19:53:26 +1100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C05B07.348983E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers, A friend of mine repowered his Rivarossi/AHM/IHC/Pemco GG1's using a = pair of Athearn trucks (less sideframes), from memory SD7, and Bowser GG1 wheels which were cut into = individual wheels so they would fit into the Athearn gear. Apparently the wheel spacing of the trucks is = the same axle spacing as the GG1's (or at least close). The only problem was that the Bowser wheels are insulated on one side = and this means that the truck will only pick up on one side or Alternate axles if note is taken of = which wheel is insulated. Apparently Bowser will supply axles with uninsulated wheels if suficient quantity = is purchased. How the motor was mounted (I think he used a can motor) I have no idea. One day I may get around to converting my fleet of 22 G's "Sigh". Hope this helps. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. PS. I will be moving to Tulsa next year to get married!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C05B07.348983E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Listers,

A friend of mine = repowered his=20 Rivarossi/AHM/IHC/Pemco GG1's using a pair of Athearn trucks=20 (less
sideframes), from memory SD7, and Bowser GG1 wheels which were = cut into=20 individual wheels so they would
fit into the Athearn gear. Apparently = the=20 wheel spacing of the trucks is the same axle spacing as
the GG1's (or = at=20 least close).

The only problem was that the Bowser wheels are = insulated=20 on one side and this means that the truck
will only pick up on one = side or=20 Alternate axles if note is taken of which wheel is insulated.=20 Apparently
Bowser will supply axles with uninsulated wheels if = suficient=20 quantity is purchased.

How the motor was mounted (I think he used = a can=20 motor) I have no idea.

One day I may get around to converting my = fleet=20 of  22 G's "Sigh".

Hope this helps.
Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member #1313
An Aussie "Slobbering = Pennsy=20 Freak"
With a touch of Reading.
 
PS. I will be moving to Tulsa next year to get=20 married!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C05B07.348983E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 04:37:16 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Which Region Were These Divisions In? --- Jerry Britton wrote: > PLEASE, no conjecture or assumptions. I need a > response from someone with > the appropriate employee timetable in hand! Shouldn't that be employe timetable? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:53:53 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Region/Divisional Structure 1941-1968 From: Jerry Britton Due to popular request and perceived need, I have posted to my "Keystone Crossings" site at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/docs/prr_structure_1941-1968.html a description of the PRR's changing region/divisional structure over the period from 1941 through 1968, including new original artwork showing the flow of changes. Your comments, including reports of typos, etc., are welcome. Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:59:27 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Employe, employee Bob said, >Shouldn't that be employe timetable? I think we've been down that road before; but for Pennsy use, I think Bob has a point. (But to go off-topic a bit, I have an Erie- Lackawanna timetable that says "for employees only." So RR usage was not uniform!) PRR, PC, and LIRR examples I have all say "employe." I'll bet today's roads are more likely to use "employee." But it should certainly be "Cincinnati!" John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:07:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05ABD.B1F3AF30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I repowered one of the IHC GG1's before they came out with the premier ones. I used Athearn SD-45 power trucks with the original IHC wheels. I removed the old axles from the wheels and a friend of mine turned down new 1/2 axles to mate the Athearn gears to the IHC wheelsets (they both use different diameter axles). Then I used 2 Proto Power switcher repower kits, one on each end to power the trucks. Weighted down it pulls great! Rob -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Graeme Nitz Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:53 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Listers, A friend of mine repowered his Rivarossi/AHM/IHC/Pemco GG1's using a pair of Athearn trucks (less sideframes), from memory SD7, and Bowser GG1 wheels which were cut into individual wheels so they would fit into the Athearn gear. Apparently the wheel spacing of the trucks is the same axle spacing as the GG1's (or at least close). The only problem was that the Bowser wheels are insulated on one side and this means that the truck will only pick up on one side or Alternate axles if note is taken of which wheel is insulated. Apparently Bowser will supply axles with uninsulated wheels if suficient quantity is purchased. How the motor was mounted (I think he used a can motor) I have no idea. One day I may get around to converting my fleet of 22 G's "Sigh". Hope this helps. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. PS. I will be moving to Tulsa next year to get married!!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05ABD.B1F3AF30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=20 repowered one of the IHC GG1's before they came out with the premier = ones. =20 I used Athearn SD-45
power trucks with the original IHC wheels.  I = removed the=20 old axles from the wheels and a friend of mine
turned=20 down new 1/2 axles to mate the Athearn gears to=20 the IHC wheelsets (they both use different
diameter axles).  Then I used 2 Proto Power switcher = repower kits,=20 one on each end to power the trucks.  =
Weighted down it pulls great! 
 
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: = PRR-Talk@dsop.com=20 [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Graeme = Nitz
Sent:=20 Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:53 AM
To:=20 prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of=20 GG1

Listers,

A friend of mine = repowered his=20 Rivarossi/AHM/IHC/Pemco GG1's using a pair of Athearn trucks=20 (less
sideframes), from memory SD7, and Bowser GG1 wheels which = were cut=20 into individual wheels so they would
fit into the Athearn gear.=20 Apparently the wheel spacing of the trucks is the same axle spacing=20 as
the GG1's (or at least close).

The only problem was = that the=20 Bowser wheels are insulated on one side and this means that the=20 truck
will only pick up on one side or Alternate axles if note is = taken=20 of which wheel is insulated. Apparently
Bowser will supply axles = with=20 uninsulated wheels if suficient quantity is purchased.

How = the motor=20 was mounted (I think he used a can motor) I have no idea.

One = day I=20 may get around to converting my fleet of  22 G's=20 "Sigh".

Hope this helps.
Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member #1313
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.
 
PS. I will be moving to Tulsa next year to get=20 married!!!!
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05ABD.B1F3AF30-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:59:45 EST Subject: [PRR] Attn: PRR N Scalers --part1_db.cf01575.2757e181_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Fellow "Listers", I know the list is not an auction site. . . but I have a few N Scale items I am going to post on e-Bay that I wanted to offer to The List first. 1.) Arnold GG1 tuscan five stripe road #4877 (Big Red) 2.) Roco Aloc FA (AF15) Brunswick Green road # 9632 3.) --- same as above --- 4.) Atlas PRR 50' stock car (Atlas #150-3549) 5.) Roco wood side Cabin Car 6.) Atlas Nickle Plate RSD 12 Limited Edition (Atlas #150-4282) All items new in original plastic cases. Best offer over $150.00 takes all. "Bidding" ends Sunday night Dec. 3rd. Please contact me of list to place offer or for more info. Good Luck ! ! Thanks, Jon S. PRRT&HS #3079 FRRMofPA --part1_db.cf01575.2757e181_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Fellow "Listers",
I know the list is not an auction site. . . but I have a few N Scale
items I am going to post on e-Bay that I wanted to offer to The
List first.
      1.) Arnold GG1 tuscan five stripe road #4877 (Big Red)
      2.) Roco  Aloc FA (AF15) Brunswick Green road # 9632
      3.)                              --- same as above ---
      4.) Atlas PRR 50' stock car (Atlas #150-3549)
      5.) Roco wood side Cabin Car
      6.) Atlas Nickle Plate RSD 12  Limited Edition (Atlas #150-4282)
  
All items new in original plastic cases. Best offer over $150.00 takes
all. "Bidding" ends Sunday night Dec. 3rd.  Please contact me of list
to place offer or for more info.   Good Luck ! !
Thanks,
Jon S.
PRRT&HS #3079
FRRMofPA --part1_db.cf01575.2757e181_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: RE: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:01:06 -0500 Group, With all the discussion of best GG1's How does the bowser kits rate and do they still even make them? I saw a couple on e-bay a couple of weeks ago but I didn't bid not knowing ho they rated? Thanks Sam >From: "Rob Schoenberg" >To: "Graeme Nitz" , >Subject: RE: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 11:07:14 -0500 > >I repowered one of the IHC GG1's before they came out with the premier >ones. >I used Athearn SD-45 >power trucks with the original IHC wheels. I removed the old axles from >the >wheels and a friend of mine >turned down new 1/2 axles to mate the Athearn gears to the IHC wheelsets >(they both use different >diameter axles). Then I used 2 Proto Power switcher repower kits, one on >each end to power the trucks. >Weighted down it pulls great! > >Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Graeme >Nitz > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 3:53 AM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 > > > Listers, > > A friend of mine repowered his Rivarossi/AHM/IHC/Pemco GG1's using a >pair of Athearn trucks (less > sideframes), from memory SD7, and Bowser GG1 wheels which were cut >into >individual wheels so they would > fit into the Athearn gear. Apparently the wheel spacing of the trucks >is >the same axle spacing as > the GG1's (or at least close). > > The only problem was that the Bowser wheels are insulated on one side >and this means that the truck > will only pick up on one side or Alternate axles if note is taken of >which wheel is insulated. Apparently > Bowser will supply axles with uninsulated wheels if suficient quantity >is purchased. > > How the motor was mounted (I think he used a can motor) I have no >idea. > > One day I may get around to converting my fleet of 22 G's "Sigh". > > Hope this helps. > > Graeme Nitz > PRRT&HS Member #1313 > An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" > With a touch of Reading. > > PS. I will be moving to Tulsa next year to get married!!!! _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:13:58 EST Subject: [PRR] Attn: PRR N Scalers Part II --part1_b4.de3c1f6.2757e4d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listers, I forgot to mention, Please contact me "off list" ! JONS6755@aol.com Thanks Jon S. --part1_b4.de3c1f6.2757e4d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Listers,
I forgot to mention, Please contact me "off list" !
JONS6755@aol.com

Thanks
Jon S. --part1_b4.de3c1f6.2757e4d6_boundary-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 12:34:33 -0600 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: [PRR] Ho scale models of GG1 Sam asked: >With all the discussion of best GG1's How does the bowser kits rate and do >they still even make them? I saw a couple on e-bay a couple of weeks ago >but I didn't bid not knowing ho they rated? No, Bowser no longer makes a GG-1. The old Penn Line GG-1 was pretty crude by most standards, and does not compare at all well with the Premier (2 motor) IHC model. I would not waste my money on them, as the Premier locos can be had for $60-$80 routinely (I believe Jerry caries these in his e-store for $69.95). We discussed some simple mods to plastic GG-1s to enhance details (check the archives or contact me off-list), and with the introduction of the 2 motor IHC models, all of the drive related problems have gone away! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:29:58 EST From: LINESWEST@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Which Region Were These Divisions In? Jerry, You've got me a little confused. According to my Columbus and Cincinnati Division timetables the changes occurred on Aug. 23, 1953, this is when Cincinnati-Springfield and Springfield-Chicago passenger service ended. I'm at the library. I'll check my timetables at home but I am absolutely sure that Columbus and Cincinnati were in the Southwestern and the Panhandle in the Central. Don't forget the Newark division on the B&O/PRR Ohio Central RR joint trackage for the 33 miles east of Columbus. Tom V. In a message dated Wed, 29 Nov 2000 10:14:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jerry Britton writes: << Folks, I am working on a quick little project that will benefit many: a "family tree" graphic which illustrates the divisional/regional structure of the PRR from 1941 through 1968. The first segment, 1941-1951 is clear, as is the fourth, 1956-1964, and the fifth, 1964-1968. I need some help on the second and third, which cover 1951-1955. I have the division lists for these periods. However, each "operating division" (1951-1954) or "operating district" (1955) was a member of a region. There are six divisions that I am unsure of which region they belonged to. If anyone has an ETT for any of the following divisions, dated between 1951 and 1955, please check the cover. The region will be named directly above the division/district name. Here are the divisions in question: * Susquehanna (will be either Eastern or Central) * Northern (will be either Eastern or Central) * Lake (I fully expect this to be Central) * Panhandle (will be either Central or Western) * Cincinatti (I fully expect this to be Western) * Southwestern (I fully expect this to be Western) PLEASE, no conjecture or assumptions. I need a response from someone with the appropriate employee timetable in hand! Many thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR K2s class George, list, I haven't been able to respond to your post until now. I'm kind of an internet gypsy (at least until this weekend); I get the net in 30 minute chunks at the base library. Anyway, MR did run an article about the K2s class (sort of) in the August 1977 issue. N&W modeller Tom Dressler had a big article on N&W's E class pacifics, including a bit on the E-3, which we know as the K3s class. It didn't include plans, but he did have a brief one page modelling article which used the long-discontinued Cary conversion boiler. I'm sure you know about the N&W E-3 article series in Model Railroading Magazine; check the Model Train Magazine Index link on Model Railroader's home page (www.modelrailroader.com)for exact dates. I bought the series back issues. Basically it involves taking a Bachmann K4s, shortening the firebox, and changing the cab to a 4 window cab. As far as the trailing truck, the author used an MDC trailer (I don't remember the part number, and my issues are in storage stateside; we can only take 600 pounds to Korea...). To me, it didn't look right. I didn't see any trailers that looked like the K2s trailing truck in PSC's catalog. To me, the closest trailer (and we can argue this a lot) is probably Bowser's K-11 trailing truck. Naturally, I left the part number at home this morning; I'll try and post it when I next get on the net. I plan to eventually model a K2s or K3s; PRR's older power is one reason I'm modelling 1948-52; I want an excuse to run some older pacifics and E3sd/E5s engines. Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Tender painting Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:05:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05B19.9D324000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've converted a Bachman 130P70 tender into a 130P75a. I changed the = rivet patterns, water hatches, tender deck height and added several = other details. One of my favorite accouterments is the train phone = antennae and transmitter dishes. Painting will begin in a day or so and = I have a question. I believe the deck should be painted the red/brown = color (not sure of the exact name). This leads to my question. Would = the antennae stanchions, antennae conduit and transmitter dishes also be = the red/brown color or should they be painted black? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05B19.9D324000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've converted a Bachman 130P70 tender = into a=20 130P75a. I changed the rivet patterns, water hatches, tender deck=20 height and added several other details.  One of my favorite=20 accouterments is the train phone antennae and transmitter dishes.  = Painting=20 will begin in a day or so and I have a question.  I believe the = deck should=20 be painted the red/brown color (not sure of the exact name).  This = leads to=20 my question.  Would the antennae stanchions, antennae conduit and=20 transmitter dishes also be the red/brown color or should they be painted = black?
 
Any insight would be greatly=20 appreciated.
 
thanks,
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C05B19.9D324000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 22:19:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender painting Kris, Again, no color shots to proove the color but the assumption is they are painted Black, not Red/Orange or DGLE. According to 1929 painting instructions all piping and I believe all appliances were painted Black. Antenna sytems probably came in later and most likely fell into the same instructions. On Brass Models imported by Key, which is one of the best finishers on the market, they paint the mast and antenna Black. They, (Key), also paints the interrior of the coal bin red/orange too. I just can't seem to get myself to do that extra detail. So I paint my tender bunkers DGLE. Hope this helps in some way.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work!.......and MY NEW K4s & G5s WEB PAGES>>> http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4 .. http://homepages.go.com/~prrg5 and...... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY... http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!