PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ

From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Wayner Books Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:09:59 +1000 Listers, I have 2 of these Wayner books namely:- Passenger Train Consists of the 1940s Car Names Numbers And Consists The first lists individual trains in "Date" order. There are quite a few PRR trains such as the Pennsylvannian, Pittsburgher, etc. A typical listing is as follows:- Liberty Limited Pennsylvania R.R. train 58 eastbound arriving Pittsburgh December 4, 1943 PRR 3878 4-6-2 steam locomotive CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS 12 Sections, 1 Drawing Room CALVIN COOLIDGE 12 Sections, 1 Drawing Room LAWMAKER 12 Sections, 1 Drawing Room PRR 7873 Dining Car IMPERIAL BASS 4 D.B.R., 4 Compts., 2 D.R. (LW) MORNING BROOK 12 Duplex Single Rooms, 5 D.B.R. (LW) MEMORY BROOK 12 Duplex Single Rooms, 5 D.B.R. (LW) WASHINGTON VIEW 2 Master Rooms, 1 Double Bedrooms, Buffet Lounge Observation (LW) The Car Names book is for Lightweight trains only and has 22 pages of PRR information such as:- Broadway Limited cars of 1938 Heavyweight Pullmans which recieved P.R.R. Exterior Streamlining Lightweight Pullmans for P.R.R. General Service, 1938-40 Keystone Tubular train Etc. There are a lot of floor plans of Pass Cars etc. The book covers about 70 RR's with the PRR section being the largest. I hope this helps you. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Wayner Books - More Info Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:12:11 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFFBB1.B8CA1DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers, Another good Watner book I have which I should have mentioned is = "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger And Freight Car Diagrams" The title explains itself. Lots of Line Drawings with floorplans of coaches, diners etc. and = freight cars. If its of any use I can scan pages for people. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFFBB1.B8CA1DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Listers,

Another good Watner book I have which I = should have=20 mentioned is "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger And Freight Car=20 Diagrams"

The title explains itself.

Lots of Line Drawings with floorplans = of coaches,=20 diners etc. and freight cars.

If its of any use I can scan pages for=20 people.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BFFBB1.B8CA1DA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy BM70nb RPO Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:39:07 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFFB83.314ED240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently purchased Dec 95 RMC which has an article by Bob Kessler which = bashs BM70nb from an AHM/IHC 70' RPO. Has anyone done this bash?=20 Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFFB83.314ED240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Recently purchased Dec 95 RMC which has an article = by Bob=20 Kessler which bashs BM70nb from an AHM/IHC 70' RPO. Has anyone done this = bash?=20

Walt Prusick

------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BFFB83.314ED240-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 04:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge --- GPandelios@aol.com wrote: > Fellow List Members, > > I stand corrected!!! There is a PRR H21a in O gauge > and Weaver makes it (I think). > have a BLT date of 42. Seems too recent. > H21a was a 4 bay hopper, with the chutes arranged >(see wonderful ASCII line art below). > > | | | | | | | | | | | > +--------------------------+ > oo \V\V V/ V/ oo H21 hoppers are arranged in pairs, dumping toward the centers of the pairs (see excellent ASCII art below, which indicates the longer wheel base of the Crown trucks and cleverly avoids questions about rib spacing) | | +-----------------------+ O O \V V/ \V V/ O O ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 03:23:09 -1000 George Pandelios wrote: "I stand corrected!!! There is a PRR H21a in O gauge and Weaver makes it (I think). In fact, I have an order for 12 of them (in tuscan; should be red oxide). They bear the logo "Coal Goes to War" and have a BLT date of 42. I was under the impression that the H21a was a 4 bay hopper, with the chutes arranged (looking toward the side) so that they dump towards the center of the car (see wonderful ASCII line art below). | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------------------+ oo \V\V V/ V/ oo I didn't realize that there were 2 rows of bays that dump towards the center. Was there ever a 4-bay PRR hopper (like the one sort of depicted above)?" George, if I read your diagram correctly, what you have is not an H21a. A unique feature of this class is that each pair of hoppers dump towards each other, creating a "sawtooth" effect, almost like you have two twins joined together end-to-end: \V V/ \V V/ What you describe sounds like a class of Lehigh Valley quads, but I'd need to see a picture of the model to be sure. At any rate, a build date of 1942 is bogus (legit would be during the teens!), but the "COAL GOES TO WAR", as well as "BUY WAR BONDS" are slogans that were applied to some class H21 cars. "MTH RailKing makes one that claims to be an H21 (but has offset (smooth) sides and doubles as Union Pacific hopper." This is most definitely not any subclass of H21, but an AAR standard design used in many numbers by B&O (Class W-2) and C&O. A common car, but NOT a Pennsy hopper! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy BM70nb RPO Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:31:52 -0400 Walt and other Listers: I bought all of the parts needed except for the roof. I am planning on finally doing the car this fall, or winter, or spring,...... Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:39 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy BM70nb RPO Recently purchased Dec 95 RMC which has an article by Bob Kessler which bashs BM70nb from an AHM/IHC 70' RPO. Has anyone done this bash? Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:36:47 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge Hi George, Several resources that you will find very valuable for this kind of question are: 1) PRR EQUIPMENT DIAGRAMS at: http://PRR.Railfan.net/diagrams/ 2) Volumes 1&2 of the Color Guides to the PRR (I'm blanking on the actual title right now!) 3) In addition John Teichmoller's definitive book on PRR hoppers should be released sometime this millenium (no, I'm not being cranky, as you will recall, the millenium end Dec 31, 2000) >I stand corrected!!! There is a PRR H21a in O gauge and Weaver makes it (I >think). >I didn't realize that there were 2 rows of bays that dump towards the center. > Was there ever a 4-bay PRR hopper (like the one sortof depicted above)? MTH >RailKing makes one that claims to be an H21 (but has offset (smooth) sides >and doubles as Union Pacific hopper. So is Weaver correct? No, Weaver is not correct. These are not H21s. Your initial statement that the H21 was a 4 bay hopper is correct. For photos of HO models see: http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/3251.htm http://www.bowser-trains.com/HO%20Freight%20Cars/h-21.htm Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:58:08 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy BM70nb RPO No, but I have bashed a BM70M out of one using a high arch roof, Keystone 6-wheel trucks, and Grant Line windows. The BM70M was the most common of all the RPOs. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== > Walt Prusick wrote: > > Recently purchased Dec 95 RMC which has an article by Bob Kessler > which bashs BM70nb from an AHM/IHC 70' RPO. Has anyone done this bash? > > Walt Prusick -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:02:46 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] B60b Brakes I am currently building several Bethlehem B60b's. In all my references the fotos and plans show a triple valve opposite the battery box, but no brake cylinder anywhere! The original B60s show them in fotos, but not the more numerous B60b's. B60b's never had truck mounted cylinders, so where were they?? -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:59:30 -0400 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Lighting of Passenger Cars Jerry, Assuming you don't want to model prototype light fixtures, but just light the car interiors, you could copy the old Scalite scheme: a light bulb enclosed at one end of the car, with a length of Lucite (acrylic plaastic) bar extending the length of the car under the roof. Scalite's light bars were about 1/2 inch square at the lamp end, tapering to about 1/8 to 1/16 inch thick at the far end. The end at the lamp was polished, and the cut surfaces were on the top and bottom of the bar. For 80 foot O scale cars, one lamp in the middle of the car with two light bars worked all the way to the vestibules. For HO you could probably reduce the cross section of the bars, which can be obtained from a piece of scrap plastic by sawing tapered strips from a sheet of the desired thickness. Walthers used to sell "imitation fluorescent" (my words) lamps, the same configuration as size 3AG fuses (1 1/4 inch long by 1/4 in. diam) which clipped into fuseholders. Several could be spaced out along the car roof. They are out of the Walthers and Radio Shack catalogs, but I just bought some from All Electronics for $0.70 each, lots of 10. They are 12 volt only, clear glass. You would probably have to series pairs of the to allow for the DCC track voltage. Of the two schemes, the Scalite bar provides a much more even lighting. Steve Bartlett Subject: Lighting of Passenger Cars From: "Jerry Britton" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:47:12 -0400 I am looking to light a whole fleet of passenger cars (DCC = constant lighting) and would like your input... .................... What about the choice of light fixtures? Who likes what? What doesn't work well? Thanks in advance! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:35:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Lighting of Passenger Cars From: Jerry Britton FYI: A few folks questioned the power requirements of my intent to light my entire passenger fleet. I am on Digitrax Chief. By its nature, DCC allows for constant lighting. As for the number of cars involved, I posed the question to Allan Gartner, who runs the excellent "Wiring For DCC" web site (http://www.wiringfordcc.com). He did the math, and responded in all kinds of electroterms that are beyond me, but said "no problem"! He did recommend additional boosters, and even suggested dedicated boosters in yard areas where large numbers of passenger cars will sit. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:59:01 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Lighting of Passenger Cars jerry, Be careful. Lights in many cars will put an extra current load on the power supply. While the power supply may be able to keep up, the circuit breakers will have to be set high enough to avoid blowing them just from the passing of the Broadway Ltd! If they are set that high, then you have lost the overload protection you want for your locos. A shorted or overloaded loco without any passenger cars will be indistinguishable to the circuit breaker from a long string of lights. Perhaps the solution is to light the cars with LEDs. They have a very low current drain. White LEDs are now avaulable, but still very expensive. But they are electronic devices and therefore the price will come down ;-) Or you can use yellow LEDs. After all we are emulating incandescent lighting at a distance and yellow is not inappropriate. -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > FYI: > > A few folks questioned the power requirements of my intent to light my > entire passenger fleet. > > I am on Digitrax Chief. By its nature, DCC allows for constant lighting. As > for the number of cars involved, I posed the question to Allan Gartner, who > runs the excellent "Wiring For DCC" web site (http://www.wiringfordcc.com). > > He did the math, and responded in all kinds of electroterms that are beyond > me, but said "no problem"! > > He did recommend additional boosters, and even suggested dedicated boosters > in yard areas where large numbers of passenger cars will sit. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:50:45 -0400 Hi all, For some more info on H21's you can check out... http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H21 Unfortunately I don't have a diagram for the H21/H21a online... Only the H21e which shares a diagram with the H25a... I do have a few H21 photos on the page though... If anyone has a copy of the H21 class diagram that they can scan for me for the site, I'd appreciate it! Also, for info on other classes of PRR cars, visit http://prr.railfan.net/freight Rob http://prr.railfan.net > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bruce F. > Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 9:37 AM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: H21a in O gauge > > > Hi George, > > Several resources that you will find very valuable for this kind of > question are: > 1) PRR EQUIPMENT DIAGRAMS at: http://PRR.Railfan.net/diagrams/ > 2) Volumes 1&2 of the Color Guides to the PRR (I'm blanking on the actual > title right now!) > 3) In addition John Teichmoller's definitive book on PRR hoppers > should be > released sometime this millenium (no, I'm not being cranky, as you will > recall, the millenium end Dec 31, 2000) > > >I stand corrected!!! There is a PRR H21a in O gauge and Weaver > makes it (I > >think). > >I didn't realize that there were 2 rows of bays that dump towards > the center. > > Was there ever a 4-bay PRR hopper (like the one sortof depicted > above)? MTH > >RailKing makes one that claims to be an H21 (but has offset > (smooth) sides > >and doubles as Union Pacific hopper. So is Weaver correct? > > No, Weaver is not correct. These are not H21s. Your initial > statement that > the H21 was a 4 bay hopper is correct. For photos of HO models see: > http://users.multipro.com/westerfield/3251.htm > http://www.bowser-trains.com/HO%20Freight%20Cars/h-21.htm > > Happy Rails > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - > Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:51:03 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Tyco GG1's I notice that these things are selling quite regularly on E bay. Since they are obviously incorrect is there another use for them that I haven't figured out or are the buyers just naive regarding purchase? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:42:46 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] Tyco GG1's Buyers are probably naive about them, but the TYCO design, although misnamed, is taken very closely from a proposed loco design by Raymond Lowey. Maybe some want to model "what might have been". NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > I notice that these things are selling quite regularly on E bay. Since they are obviously incorrect is there another use for them that I haven't figured out or are the buyers just naive regarding purchase? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:16:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy BM70nb RPO Walt, list, I did the kitbash; it came out great. I used the Rivarossi car, Eastern Car Works underbody parts, Roundhouse 2935 trucks (2EP5s if memory serves; most of my reference books are now in storage pending a move), a Bethlehem Car Works roof, Champ decals, and some .015 brass wire for the grab irons. I used the first Keystone of 1993 to number the car. It has an exhaustive list of PRR mail/RPO cars; I picked a car that has been preserved. The number escapes me; my BM70nb is in storage at my grandfather's. Some of the work is destructive, like removing the grabs and the fishbelly underframe. Don't lose heart; do this in front of the TV and it will go quickly. Doug Walt Prusick wrote: > Recently purchased Dec 95 RMC which has an article by Bob Kessler > which bashs BM70nb from an AHM/IHC 70' RPO. Has anyone done this > bash? Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:10:24 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFC93.C8EC88C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers, I have been led to believe that the Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher (What a = Model!!!) is hard to get in the US. Shops in Australa still have lots in = stock and I believe at a price cheaper thatn the US!! If anyone is in need of one please contact me. Should be able to land one in the US for about US$180.00 including = Postage and Insurance. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFC93.C8EC88C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Listers,

I have been led to believe that the = Life Like 0-8-0=20 Switcher (What a Model!!!) is hard to get in the US. Shops in Australa = still=20 have lots in stock and I believe at a price cheaper thatn the = US!!

If anyone is in need of one please = contact=20 me.

Should be able to land one in the US = for about=20 US$180.00 including Postage and Insurance.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BFFC93.C8EC88C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 06:26:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Steam Roster Database From: Jerry Britton The searchable steam roster project continues to come along well. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/steam/ However, there are still a lot of books remaining to have their pictures indexed. I know there are folks out there that a) have the books; and b) have Microsoft Excel. If that sounds like you, please visit the above URL and check out the "project" link. We need your assistance! Thanks to all who have volunteered thus far, and those that are still at it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:05:56 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Folks, I've seen this engine at my local shop ($180) and it certainly looks nice. I was wondering if it's made by Roco, like the Y3, or in Red China? Anyone know? Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:49:25 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFFC6F.52F328A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List, Recently I posted a request for info based upon an article in one = of the model railroad publications.I am very pleased by the response = both on and off line. There appears to be quite a number of members = looking at bashing not only RPO's but diners and other passanger cars as = well utilizing techniques similar to the ones described in the above = mentioned article.=20 There will be a stumbling block in procuring the "high arch" roof. I = have sent a letter to the manufacturer used in the article. His response = is decidedly less than enthuastic or helpful. But he did respond. I will = be contacting the "alternative" source mentioned in the article an see = if they are willing to sell either the "high arch" roof seperately, or = as part of a spue. Hey, you got to sell your product to keep the lights = on. Just a thought, as this seems to be such a hot topic, why don't we sound = off as to what we are looking at as projects over the upcoming Christmas = Season. Who knows, maybe someone has a source for that "impossible" = truck you need? Maybe get started on this list, and if Jerry doesn't = mind, continue this thread for a while (otherwise continue on the QT). Walt Prusick=20 ------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFFC6F.52F328A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

List, Recently I posted a request for info based = upon an=20 article in one of the model railroad publications.I am very pleased by = the=20 response both on and off line. There appears to be quite a number of = members=20 looking at bashing not only RPO's but diners and other passanger cars as = well=20 utilizing techniques similar to the ones described in the above = mentioned=20 article.

There will be a stumbling block in procuring the = "high arch"=20 roof. I have sent a letter to the manufacturer used in the article. His = response=20 is decidedly less than enthuastic or helpful. But he did respond. = I=20 will be contacting the "alternative" source mentioned in the = article an=20 see if they are willing to sell either the "high arch" roof seperately, = or as=20 part of a spue. Hey, you got to sell your product to keep the lights=20 on.

Just a thought, as this seems to be such a hot = topic, why=20 don't we sound off as to what we are looking at as projects over the = upcoming=20 Christmas Season. Who knows, maybe someone has a source for=20 that "impossible" truck you need? Maybe get started on this list, = and if=20 Jerry doesn't mind, continue this thread for a while (otherwise continue = on the=20 QT).

Walt Prusick

------=_NextPart_000_007B_01BFFC6F.52F328A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:28:49 -0400 There can be strength in numbers. Perhaps ECW may not be receptive to selling one or two roofs to one modeller. But, if there were dozens of modellers that wnated those roofs and approached someone with clout like Jerry (sorry if I am dragging you in this Jerry!!), perhaps ECW may be willing to produce a special run of individual roofs and sell them in bulk to Jerry who in turn, would sell them to us. If that happens, put me down for a dozen ECW arch roofs! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:49 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) List, Recently I posted a request for info based upon an article in one of the model railroad publications.I am very pleased by the response both on and off line. There appears to be quite a number of members looking at bashing not only RPO's but diners and other passanger cars as well utilizing techniques similar to the ones described in the above mentioned article. There will be a stumbling block in procuring the "high arch" roof. I have sent a letter to the manufacturer used in the article. His response is decidedly less than enthuastic or helpful. But he did respond. I will be contacting the "alternative" source mentioned in the article an see if they are willing to sell either the "high arch" roof seperately, or as part of a spue. Hey, you got to sell your product to keep the lights on. Just a thought, as this seems to be such a hot topic, why don't we sound off as to what we are looking at as projects over the upcoming Christmas Season. Who knows, maybe someone has a source for that "impossible" truck you need? Maybe get started on this list, and if Jerry doesn't mind, continue this thread for a while (otherwise continue on the QT). Walt Prusick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:10:16 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Bethlehem makes a turtle back roof for their M70 and offers is as a separate part! Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > There can be strength in numbers. > > Perhaps ECW may not be receptive to selling one or two roofs to one > modeller. But, if there were dozens of modellers that wnated those roofs and > approached someone with clout like Jerry (sorry if I am dragging you in this > Jerry!!), perhaps ECW may be willing to produce a special run of individual > roofs and sell them in bulk to Jerry who in turn, would sell them to us. > > If that happens, put me down for a dozen ECW arch roofs! > > > Ted Andrews > Carmel, Indiana > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walt Prusick [mailto:walpru@stargate.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 12:49 PM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) > > List, Recently I posted a request for info based upon an article in one of > the model railroad publications.I am very pleased by the response both on > and off line. There appears to be quite a number of members looking at > bashing not only RPO's but diners and other passanger cars as well utilizing > techniques similar to the ones described in the above mentioned article. > > There will be a stumbling block in procuring the "high arch" roof. I have > sent a letter to the manufacturer used in the article. His response is > decidedly less than enthuastic or helpful. But he did respond. I will be > contacting the "alternative" source mentioned in the article an see if they > are willing to sell either the "high arch" roof seperately, or as part of a > spue. Hey, you got to sell your product to keep the lights on. > > Just a thought, as this seems to be such a hot topic, why don't we sound off > as to what we are looking at as projects over the upcoming Christmas Season. > Who knows, maybe someone has a source for that "impossible" truck you need? > Maybe get started on this list, and if Jerry doesn't mind, continue this > thread for a while (otherwise continue on the QT). > > Walt Prusick > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:25:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Shays From: Jerry Britton MDC recently came out with an assembled version of their 2-truck Shay. Bachmann Spectrum is coming out with a 3-truck Shay. Thinking about the branch lines of the PRR north of Harrisburg...near Selinsgrove, the Elmira Branch, etc....there were private mining and logging operations. Did any of these use Shays, and were they approximately of the type offered by MDC or Bachmann? I'm thinking about purchasing one, painting it for the local company, and having it sitting around my Harrisburg operation...perhaps for service, whatever. I just think they're cool to watch! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:27:28 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Shays Why not just put it on a flat car and have it being shipped west from Baldwin! I know, they're not as cool to watch that way, but they move faster ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > MDC recently came out with an assembled version of their 2-truck Shay. > Bachmann Spectrum is coming out with a 3-truck Shay. > > Thinking about the branch lines of the PRR north of Harrisburg...near > Selinsgrove, the Elmira Branch, etc....there were private mining and logging > operations. Did any of these use Shays, and were they approximately of the > type offered by MDC or Bachmann? > > I'm thinking about purchasing one, painting it for the local company, and > having it sitting around my Harrisburg operation...perhaps for service, > whatever. I just think they're cool to watch! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:10:21 EDT Subject: [PRR] GAEX 50-foot box Although they were only 100 cars leased initiatally (1950) and 148-149 when purchased ((1960), I am surprised no one has mentioned Branchline's lettering of their 50 foot AAR box in the 1950 GAEX paint scheme (leased to PRR). I would expect them to do them in the 1961 scheme someday (with Shadow Keystone). I don't know how close to the prototype it is. The sides and ends look to be near-exact for the 1950 car (cars built later in the mid-50's differed) , but I didn't get out the micrometer and rivet-counter. I don't have a photo or diagram of the roof so I can't compare. Does anyone have a suggestion for the high-speed truck (the one in the kit is not correct)? Looks to have a snubber on it. In any case, the sides and ends alone are an improvement on the Athearrn cars (I have the Third Rail Graphics set) which has not a single feature, side, end, roof, etc, which matches the prototype. Pennsy kept the REA green color when they bought them because they didn't want these special load-retaining device cars mixed with the general pool. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:25:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] GAEX 50-foot box From: Jerry Britton On 8/2/00 1:10 PM, Bobspf@aol.com (Bobspf@aol.com) wrote: > Although they were only 100 cars leased initiatally (1950) and 148-149 when > purchased ((1960), I am surprised no one has mentioned Branchline's lettering > of their 50 foot AAR box in the 1950 GAEX paint scheme (leased to PRR). I > would expect them to do them in the 1961 scheme someday (with Shadow > Keystone). These WERE mentioned...not on PRR-Talk, but on "Merchandise Announce", announcing their availability for Advance Reservations. They are doing two PRR paint schemes. Each is available as a single car or a three pack. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:58:58 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] Shays] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Shays Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:56:03 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Reply-To: wahsatch@vaix.net To: Andy Miller References: <39884BF0.744769C5@mitre.org> Shays were built by Lima in Ohio, so they'd be coming east from the factory. Most loggers and miners stopped using shays and other logging steam engines by the mid-50's. Last shay built was WM #6 outshopped May 14, 1945. The out-of-print PA logging series by Ben Kline is the best source for logging/mining ops in PA. The RR Museum of PA has reprinted, I think, 4 of the series; check their website for available issues. Besides logging & coal mines, some shays were used around power plants - don't need hi speed, need traction. The next-to-last shay, 2 truck, 80 ton, was built for the Dayton [OH] Power & Light in 1937. --Bob Andy Miller wrote: > > Why not just put it on a flat car and have it being shipped west from > Baldwin! > I know, they're not as cool to watch that way, but they move faster ;-) > > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > MDC recently came out with an assembled version of their 2-truck Shay. > > Bachmann Spectrum is coming out with a 3-truck Shay. > > > > Thinking about the branch lines of the PRR north of Harrisburg...near > > Selinsgrove, the Elmira Branch, etc....there were private mining and logging > > operations. Did any of these use Shays, and were they approximately of the > > type offered by MDC or Bachmann? > > > > I'm thinking about purchasing one, painting it for the local company, and > > having it sitting around my Harrisburg operation...perhaps for service, > > whatever. I just think they're cool to watch! > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:09:36 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Still Looking - Makeup of Trains book From: Jerry Britton I'm still looking for a Maryland Division "Makeup of Trains" book from 1954. Contains instructions to yard crews on assembly of passenger trains at Baltimore and Washington. If not from 1954, does anyone have one from between 1948-1956 or so? Same goes for the Philadelphia Terminal Division. I have the New York Division document, but several trains to Harrisburg originated in Philadelphia and are therefore not included. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [PRR] Shays] On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Bob Colquitt wrote: > The out-of-print PA logging series by Ben Kline is the best source for > logging/mining ops in PA. The RR Museum of PA has reprinted, I think, 4 > of the series; check their website for available issues. State Museum of PA had some in their store, as well, the last time I was there. > Besides logging & coal mines, some shays were used around power plants - > don't need hi speed, need traction. The next-to-last shay, 2 truck, 80 > ton, was built for the Dayton [OH] Power & Light in 1937. > --Bob > > > Andy Miller wrote: > > > > Why not just put it on a flat car and have it being shipped west from > > Baldwin! > > I know, they're not as cool to watch that way, but they move faster ;-) > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Miller > > asmiller@mitre.org > > > > =================================================== > > Jerry Britton wrote: > > > > > > MDC recently came out with an assembled version of their 2-truck Shay. > > > Bachmann Spectrum is coming out with a 3-truck Shay. > > > > > > Thinking about the branch lines of the PRR north of Harrisburg...near > > > Selinsgrove, the Elmira Branch, etc....there were private mining and logging > > > operations. Did any of these use Shays, and were they approximately of the > > > type offered by MDC or Bachmann? > > > > > > I'm thinking about purchasing one, painting it for the local company, and > > > having it sitting around my Harrisburg operation...perhaps for service, > > > whatever. I just think they're cool to watch! > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > > > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > > > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > > > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > Free serving of railroad web sites > > > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > > -- > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Fw: PRR and Shays Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 14:57:26 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:55 PM Subject: PRR and Shays > I believe the area with the most geared engines in PRR's territory was the > "oil patch" in Northwestern Pennsylvania. Several of the short lines in that > area had geared locomotives and one was powered exclusively by geared > locomotives, perhaps the Sheffield & Tionesta? > > Alas, you would have to be modeling the pre World War II era, though, to > have Shays interchanging with the PRR. > > Gregg Mahlkov > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:25:26 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: [PRR] GAEX 50' box car Bob, I don't have one of Branchline's models to check out, but here is a bit of information that may be of help. There were two production runs of these cars; 1950, and 1955. The major spotting difference is the 1955 run has the distinctive horizontal riveted seam in the side sheets half way between the side sill and the roof eave. Also the 1955 production run included some cars equipped with 7'7" plug doors, besides the "standard" 8' sliding door. The PRR received cars from the 1950 production run in series PRR 47100-47209 (ex-GAEX 100000-100109), and cars from the 1955 production run in series PRR 47210-47229 (not sure of the GAEX series #s). Since both runs were essentially the same, they were combined in the ORERs into series PRR 47100-47249; at least they are in the Apr 1969 issue I have, in the PRR reporting marks section of the PC listing, with the 1955 cars identified as having a slightly higher CAPY. Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > Although they were only 100 cars leased initiatally (1950) and 148-149 when > purchased ((1960), I am surprised no one has mentioned Branchline's lettering > of their 50 foot AAR box in the 1950 GAEX paint scheme (leased to PRR). I > would expect them to do them in the 1961 scheme someday (with Shadow > Keystone). I also hope they do the later paint scheme(s) of not only the PRR, but also the other roads that took ownership of their shares of the cars. > I don't know how close to the prototype it is. The sides and ends look to be > near-exact for the 1950 car (cars built later in the mid-50's differed) , but > I didn't get out the micrometer and rivet-counter. I don't have a photo or > diagram of the roof so I can't compare. The roof on both 1950 and 1955 run cars was diagonal panel, and all that I know of had interim improved Dreadnaught ends. > Does anyone have a suggestion for the high-speed truck (the one in the kit is > not correct)? Looks to have a snubber on it. The trucks on these cars were Chrysler FR-5 series, developed jointly between Symington-Gould and Chrysler Corp., which basically looked like a regular AAR standard truck (AKA: "Bettendorf") with a shock absorber (snubber). I don't know of any HO scale trucks made to represent this style, but perhaps it could be sort of kit bashed. > Pennsy kept the REA green color when they bought them because they didn't > want these special load-retaining device cars mixed with the general pool. Many would agree and probably as many would disagree that these were REA green. Dark and medium are the terms most people seem to use. I have samples of the last two actual REA colors, but not of the GAEX cars, so I'm not going to try to say if they match or not. When the cars were turned over to the railroads from GAEX, they were repaired and repainted to the dark green, and the new owner's reporting marks, monogram as applicable, etc., were applied. The reporting marks were in white stenciling, rather than the yellow used by GAEX. To me, in the Pennsy's era of deferring maintenance, and everything else to cut costs, it would seem more logical that this would be the reason they were never painted into PRR freight car red, rather than to maintain a separate identity as having the "DF" loaders. This is pure speculation on my part. Railmodel Journal published some good articles on these cars a few years back. Look in issues dated 3/90, 4/90, 6/90, 9/90, 4/91, and 2/92 for both the articles and miscellaneous photos. There is at least one shot of each production run car in PRR paint among them. Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:04:45 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] GAEX 50-foot box The Branchline model is the 1950 version of the car . You can check out a picture of the model on our current e-bay auction; item #393177407. As mentioned in another posting, the trucks are not correct but I am sure some resourcful individual will come up with an acceptable solution. Frank Brua Park Varieties Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > Although they were only 100 cars leased initiatally (1950) and 148-149 when > purchased ((1960), I am surprised no one has mentioned Branchline's lettering > of their 50 foot AAR box in the 1950 GAEX paint scheme (leased to PRR). I > would expect them to do them in the 1961 scheme someday (with Shadow > Keystone). > > I don't know how close to the prototype it is. The sides and ends look to be > near-exact for the 1950 car (cars built later in the mid-50's differed) , but > I didn't get out the micrometer and rivet-counter. I don't have a photo or > diagram of the roof so I can't compare. > > Does anyone have a suggestion for the high-speed truck (the one in the kit is > not correct)? Looks to have a snubber on it. > > In any case, the sides and ends alone are an improvement on the Athearrn cars > (I have the Third Rail Graphics set) which has not a single feature, side, > end, roof, etc, which matches the prototype. > > Pennsy kept the REA green color when they bought them because they didn't > want these special load-retaining device cars mixed with the general pool. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:55:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR and Shays Jerry and List. The Altoona Northern better know as the Wopsononock RR around Altoona had a Heisler type locomotive. 3 of them around 1918 before the road closed and was sold and scraped in the early 20's Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:05:51 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Hi all... Besides the BM70 stuff...I'd still like to see one of the Box cab electrics come out. Since these engines had some similar dimentions perhaps a way could be found where they could be produced like the building sides are for DPM buildings. The ends of these engines were, if not identical,then very close. (except the B-1 pilots.) There were many windows and vents,but they too were almost identical. All of these parts could be used with a basic shell or modular shell parts to get either a B-1,O-1a,b etc.,L-6,and P-5 classes. You could put the different body panels together to get a given class. You could market just a basic shell or shell modules kit and market the various windows,vents,doors,pilots, etc. such as the way that NERS markets their Pullman parts. The kicker will be the underframe. There are drivers and drives out there that could be adapted. The hardest part will be making the underframe side frames. For this you would have to have four different side frame molds or dies. Perhaps to keep it cheap at first... start with one...say for a P-5 class. Then as they start paying for them selves, make the next side frame mold. I would guess the two that would be most useful would be the P-5a and the L-6. Both lasted into the 1960's when the E-44's were new, and use was'nt limited to just one or two areas on lines east. Just a thought. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Chris Turner Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 09:38:57 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0133_01BFFD2E.A5720820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, I tried replying to your Email address, but it was returned as = undeliverable. Please contact me direct. I will check availability of an Erie unit today. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_0133_01BFFD2E.A5720820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris,

I tried replying to your Email address, = but it was=20 returned as undeliverable.

Please contact me direct.

I will check availability of an Erie = unit=20 today.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.

------=_NextPart_000_0133_01BFFD2E.A5720820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JONS6755@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:47:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tyco GG1's Yes. . . The other use for the Tyco "GG1" is . . . Skeet Shooting ! ! !! Jon S ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 22:58:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Tyco GG1's From: Michael Allen At the risk of offending those whose own modeling has stopped cold as of the PC merger. I have three of them which I repainted into "modern PRR" schemes on the "its plausible, what if..." premise. This arose from some of the "what if" speculation which occurred in various watering holes in Philadelphia while we were trying to determine what assets of the PC belonged to who. The engineer who was the designated expert witness on motive power told me that when they first became involved in the High-Speed Ground Transportation project one of the alternatives considered was locomotive hauled consists using a new design of locomotive. Some of the sketches were for a C-C motor in a carbody remincent of a streamlined P5. He had painted a Tyco engine and some Bachman Amfleetcars as PRR for his grandchildren. On those nights that I feel like messing with the time-space continium, two of the class BB4s, in tuscan single stripe, sub-lettered for the NRPC, are assigned to through high speed mail and passenger service. Another, in DGLE, narrow stripe, [or a reasonable facsimile for my basement lighting] and sub-lettered for my real-world consulting firm, usually handles a string of Bombardier Comet push-pulls on a turn which looks much like a Clocker. I haven't seen them on E-Bay because I rarely look for such things there. If the sellers are not claiming that they are "authentic models of..." I really don't see a problem. I wouldn't mind having a few more and I know what they are. MEA Michael E. Allen meallen@juno.com _____________________________ PRINCETON TERMINAL RAILWAY Management Services On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:51:03 EDT NDBPRR@aol.com writes: > I notice that these things are selling quite regularly on E bay. > Since they are obviously incorrect is there another use for them > that I haven't figured out or are the buyers just naive regarding > purchase? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 14:06:44 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Atlas RS-11 Announced From: Jerry Britton Atlas has announced a run of RS-11's, due 10/31/00. Unfortunately, no PRR livery. This would be PRR class AS18m, first purchased in 1956. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:34:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Hi Hank & List, I could relate to that very well. Especially the P-5 and B-1. It would take a while for the aquisition, but I would definitely get several. Now what about the E-44's. Al In a message dated 08/02/2000 5:15:04 PM Central Daylight Time, bubbles@visi.net writes: << The ends of these engines were, if not identical,then very close. (except the B-1 pilots.) There were many windows and vents,but they too were almost identical. All of these parts could be used with a basic shell or modular shell parts to get either a B-1,O-1a,b etc.,L-6,and P-5 classes. You could put the different body panels together to get a given class. You could market just a basic shell or shell modules kit and market the various windows,vents,doors,pilots, etc. such as the way that NERS markets their Pullman parts. The kicker will be the underframe. There are drivers and drives out there that could be adapted. The hardest part will be making the underframe side frames. For this you would have to have four different side frame molds or dies. Perhaps to keep it cheap at first... start with one...say for a P-5 class. Then as they start paying for them selves, make the next side frame mold. I would guess the two that would be most useful would be the P-5a and the L-6. Both lasted into the 1960's when the E-44's were new, and use was'nt limited to just one or two areas on lines east. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:30:26 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Listers, I just recieved mine. It is gorgeous !!! And it runs great. I tested it on analog and it can do a "tie-a-minute". This is definitely a Keeper. Nick Kulp At 09:05 AM 8/2/00 EDT, you wrote: >Folks, >I've seen this engine at my local shop ($180) and it certainly looks nice. I was wondering if it's made by Roco, like the Y3, or in Red China? Anyone know? >Thanks, >Barry Peltier > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:57:15 -0400 The Heritage/P2K 0-8-0 is made in China. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX > >Folks, > >I've seen this engine at my local shop ($180) and it certainly looks nice. > I was wondering if it's made by Roco, like the Y3, or in Red China? Anyone > know? > >Thanks, > >Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:49:39 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] BM70nb (Pennsy RPO in general) Hank was philosophizing... > > Besides the BM70 stuff...I'd still like to see > one of the Box cab electrics come out. > Since these engines had some similar dimentions > perhaps a way could be found where they could be > produced like the building sides are for > DPM buildings. > The ends of these engines were, > if not identical,then very close. (except the B-1 pilots.) The B-1 is noticably narrower (6" I recall) than the L,O,P series > There were many windows and vents,but they too were almost > identical. All of these parts could be used > with a basic shell or modular shell parts to get > either a B-1,O-1a,b etc.,L-6,and P-5 classes. Sell car ends, pilots (the same except as noted for the B-1), roofs, and sides, and then a detail kit (pantographs, roof details etc) > There are drivers and drives out there that could > be adapted. The hardest part will be making the > underframe side frames. WHERE? I would love to know where I can find 70" spoked drivers without counterweights and with quill drive cups on one side (P5). (note that GG-1 drivers were 60" and could be used for the B-1) >For this you would have > to have four different side frame molds or > dies. But you'll need 4 diferent carbody sides anyway... >Perhaps to keep it cheap at first... > start with one...say for a P-5 class. > Then as they start paying for them selves, > make the next side frame mold. > I would guess the two that would be most useful > would be the P-5a and the L-6. Both lasted > into the 1960's when the E-44's were new, > and use was'nt limited to just one or two > areas on lines east. This was the approach I tried to take with Liberty Models a few years ago...go for the "modular" flat resin kit to build the boxcabs, and find someone who would make a shell casting for the modified P5. I am resigned to trying to scratchbuild some boxcabs to supplement the brass collection, and buying brass for the modifieds (way out of my league for scratchbuilding) Oh Well, Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:46:12 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Yes Nick: I agree, the ones I picked up from our mutual friend for you and Jeff Warner are indeed gorgeous. And, as far as being a keeper, I also agree, I think I'll keep these for the Altoona Area of the PRR! :-) :-) :-) Larry Nick Kulp wrote: > Listers, > > I just recieved mine. It is gorgeous !!! And it runs great. I tested it on > analog and it can do a "tie-a-minute". This is definitely a Keeper. > > Nick Kulp > > At 09:05 AM 8/2/00 EDT, you wrote: > >Folks, > >I've seen this engine at my local shop ($180) and it certainly looks nice. > I was wondering if it's made by Roco, like the Y3, or in Red China? Anyone > know? > >Thanks, > >Barry Peltier > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Hi Guys, Compared to the Roco built 2-8-8-2, does this China built 0-8-0 run just as good? If so I may look into one also and place a PRR/P&LE interchange on the layout for the P&LE service that was located here in the Beaver Falls, Pa. area (P&LE's College Yard via the switching sidings off the PRR's Ft. Wayne Line Main). I believe if I purchase a NYC version all that is needed to convert to P&LE is relettering and renumbering? I have P&LE Loco photos for reference.... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] For Sale HO K4 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:57:22 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BFFD74.4616DB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable F. S. HO Red Ball K4s. Very nice model of 5497 as seen in "Pennsy = Steam: A to T", page 133, with "modernized" front end. (5497 was one of = last K4's built; differs from most of the rest of the fleet by having = smoke box support integral to the frame rather than the more common = struts that went from the pilot deck to the smokebox.) Model has been = upgraded with correct PSC/Cary/CalScale detail parts. Drive train = upgraded with KTM idler gearbox and Sagami 2032 motor. Professionally = painted, dulux gold lettering. Model is owned by local modeler Ron Strachan. Long time readers of MR = have seen an article on building PRR E6's from Bowser and Roundhouse = parts and a Model of the Month (non PRR steam) by Ron. Ron is becoming = quite elderly, and asked if I could sell the engine for him. (I want it = myself, but my CFO says no, not even at this price.)=20 $250 plus shipping. I told Ron this is too low, but he insisted. This = is a very, very nice model. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BFFD74.4616DB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

F. S. HO Red Ball K4s. Very = nice model=20 of 5497 as seen in "Pennsy Steam: A to T", page 133, with = "modernized"=20 front end. (5497 was one of last K4's built; differs from most of = the rest=20 of the fleet by having smoke box support integral to the frame = rather than=20 the more common struts that went from the pilot deck to the = smokebox.)=20 Model has been upgraded with correct PSC/Cary/CalScale detail = parts. Drive=20 train upgraded with KTM idler gearbox and Sagami 2032 motor. = Professionally=20 painted, dulux gold lettering.

Model is owned by local modeler Ron = Strachan. =20 Long time readers of MR have seen an article on building PRR E6's = from=20 Bowser and Roundhouse parts and a Model of the Month (non PRR = steam) by=20 Ron. Ron is becoming quite elderly, and asked if I could sell the = engine=20 for him. (I want it myself, but my CFO says no, not even at this=20 price.)

$250 plus shipping. I told Ron = this is too=20 low, but he insisted. This is a very, very nice model.

Steve Hoxie

Pensacola FL

------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BFFD74.4616DB80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] K-4 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:11:02 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFDA0.17D08740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve...I would be happy to purchase the K-4 tomorrow, if available. I = can send a certified check. Let me know. I can be contacted OL. Bob = Holden, rholden@superpa.net =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFDA0.17D08740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve...I would be happy to purchase = the K-4=20 tomorrow, if available. I can send a certified check. Let me know. I can = be=20 contacted OL. Bob Holden, rholden@superpa.net &n= bsp;=20

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFFDA0.17D08740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 00:06:02 -0400 From: "Michael E. Hauk" Subject: [PRR] Shays >Subject: Shays >From: "Jerry Britton" >Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:25:54 -0400 > >MDC recently came out with an assembled version of their 2-truck Shay. >Bachmann Spectrum is coming out with a 3-truck Shay. > >Thinking about the branch lines of the PRR north of Harrisburg...near >Selinsgrove, the Elmira Branch, etc....there were private mining and logging >operations. Did any of these use Shays, and were they approximately of the >type offered by MDC or Bachmann? > >I'm thinking about purchasing one, painting it for the local company, and >having it sitting around my Harrisburg operation...perhaps for service, >whatever. I just think they're cool to watch! According to Taber's Book No.4, "Sunset Along Susquehanna Waters", the Central Pennsylvania Lumber Co. (CPL) had 10 Shay locomotives at one time or another, and all were sold or scrapped by 1937. The CPL operated several logging railroads north of Williamsport from about 1903-1941. The Susquehanna and New York connected to the Elmira Branch, and owned 2 Shays; both were sold to the CPL in 1913. Both of these engines primarily worked the S&NY's Gray's Run branch, and were sold off when the branch was abandoned after all the timber was cut. There were a relatively large number of smaller lumber outfits that operated up and down the Susquehanna and it's northern and western tributaries, many of which had a Shay or two. According to the Taber books I have, most operated in the 1890-1925 timeframe. Most of these outfits seemed to prefer the Climax engines over the Shays; I seem to recall the Climaxes were less expensive and not as heavy as the Shays, so the logging railroads could then be built to lesser (i.e. cheaper) standards. The engine lists in Taber's books seem to list Climaxes over Shays by a wide numerical margin. 1954 might be a little late to have one around H'burg, but if you like 'em, so what! Mike H. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:03:13 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) Just remembered Harrisburg Steel had a little 0-4-0 fireless cooker that shifted the mill in the mid-50's. After the hurricane came thru in the 70's & flooded out the mill's diesels traction motors, they hooked up the switcher to the boiler & it shifted around. I was getting the solid state rectifier back on line when I heard something that sounded like a steam engine - figured it was a horizontal powering a compressor. The plant electrician said no, it was a steamer. Walked out the door & this little dink was moving a boxcar down the track between the rectifier building & the mill piercer/reheat furnace. The engineer had to really open the throttle up to get the cooker & boxcar up the little grade into the reheat/piercer bldg. Harrisburg Steel took steel billets, reheated them, then pierced with a long bar to make hi-pressure (2000 psi) gas cylinders. After piercing, the cylinders necks were rolled and a hi-pressure valve added. Harrisburg was a small mill by any standard. There was also a mill at Milton that made rebar via 2 small electric arc furnaces. --Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Foreign Road Stockcars on FW-8 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:01:36 -0700 Did some research on an item someone posted a few weeks back concerning using the AHM NYC double deck stockcar for classes of CB&Q cars - picked up a copy of Burlington Bulletin No. 25, which is a double issue focusing on the Q's livestock operations and a great resource if you can get a copy. The AHM NYC stockcar is not a match for any class of Q stockcars. Out of the plastic models available, the Athearn stockcar is fairly close to CB&Q Class SM-19 (most of them had the earlier rectangular pattern roof with the last few cars receiving the diagonal panel roof as represented by the Athearn car - if you ignore the fact that the panels are molded in the mirror image of what they should be), and the Proto 2000 Mather Cars accurately reflect the cars leased by CB&Q in 1963 (making cars in this paint scheme contemporary with the PRR K9 and K11 cars). Now back to piecing together the picture on FW-8... Ben Hom P.S. Greg Martin's PA's are worth the price of admission - the amount of research done is impressive, and his article is well worth the wait if you plan on building a set! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:12:42 EDT Hi group, To all the rivit counters, How does this engine compare to the real Pennsy? Also the B unit? Thanks Sam ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:50:08 EDT While I am asking, What about the Walthers FA units & FA B units? Sam >From: "Sam Vastano" >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Subject: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:12:42 EDT > >Hi group, > > >To all the rivit counters, How does this engine compare to the real Pennsy? >Also the B unit? > > >Thanks > >Sam > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:47:02 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Life Like 0-8-0 Switcher Gary: I've yet to see the 2 8 8 2 so I can't comment on the comparison. All I can say is that the 0 8 0 runs like a Swiss watch. Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Compared to the Roco built 2-8-8-2, does this China built 0-8-0 run > just as good? If so I may look into one also and place a PRR/P&LE > interchange on the layout for the P&LE service that was located here in > the Beaver Falls, Pa. area (P&LE's College Yard via the switching > sidings off the PRR's Ft. Wayne Line Main). I believe if I purchase a > NYC version all that is needed to convert to P&LE is relettering and > renumbering? I have P&LE Loco photos for reference.... Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:21:05 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) >Just remembered Harrisburg Steel had a little 0-4-0 fireless cooker that >shifted the mill in the mid-50's. After the hurricane came thru in the >70's & flooded out the mill's diesels traction motors, they hooked up >the switcher to the boiler & it shifted around. The Electric Generating at Holtwood also had a "fireless cooker" at least through the 50's.... Hmmm, maybe what we need is a model of a fireless cooker!!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:24:18 -0400 RE: Bachmann Plus F-7's. As far as the N scale ones go, I added trainphone antennae, lift rings in front, and changed to a single 3-chime horn on the engineer's side. But, the pilot is wrong, all PRR F's had "passenger" pilots while Bachmann's F's have the more common "freight" pilot. The 48" dynamic brake fan was not even an F7 feature, but used on F9's. This would be the only thing wrong on the "B" units. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's > While I am asking, What about the Walthers FA units & FA B units? > > Sam > > > > >From: "Sam Vastano" > >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > >Subject: [PRR] Prr Bachman Plus F7's > >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:12:42 EDT > > > >Hi group, > > > > > >To all the rivit counters, How does this engine compare to the real Pennsy? > >Also the B unit? > > > > > >Thanks > > > >Sam > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] K-4s Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:45:49 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFFDF8.C55BAEA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve...Address as Follows: 705 West Myrtle Street Littlestown, Pa. 17340 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFFDF8.C55BAEA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve...Address as Follows: 705 West = Myrtle=20 Street

&nbs= p; = ; = =20 Littlestown, Pa. 17340

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BFFDF8.C55BAEA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Fort Wayne Yard Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:11:47 -0400 PRR Listers: I am looking for maps or aerial photos for the PRR yards in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Have any of you seen such information published? I would prefer information on the yard during the PRR days and especially with steam. I do have USGS Quad maps but they have been updated over the years and not really accurate as far as the yard is concerned. Thank you in advance for any information that you can provide me. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:12:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) In a message dated 8/4/00 8:29:32 AM Central Daylight Time, smithbf@mail.auburn.edu writes: << Hmmm, maybe what we need is a model of a fireless cooker!!! >> Someone on this or another list also mentioned a Porter or other industrial diesel. A smooth-running industrial loco, steam or diesel, that was well detailed would IMO bea good choice for a product offering. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Re Unusual Steam... Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:02:09 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFFE3E.1BB90140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe that Liliput (Bachmann) are due to do a German fireless 0-6-0 = locomotive in the near future. A good and smooth running as far as I can = tell industrial could be possibly made from a Piko K=F6 1 ( a small = German 4 wheel switcher), otherwise why not just use a 44 tonner? Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFFE3E.1BB90140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe that Liliput (Bachmann) are = due to do a=20 German fireless 0-6-0 locomotive in the near future. A good and smooth = running=20 as far as I can tell industrial could be possibly made from a Piko K=F6 = 1 ( a=20 small German 4 wheel switcher), otherwise why not just use a 44=20 tonner?

Patrick Grace

------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BFFE3E.1BB90140-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Fishbelly reefers? Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:37:34 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 24 Jul, BPX29@aol.com wrote: > [ ... ] Seems to me most > of them were milk cars rather than pure reefers, and many of them were owned > by dairy operations. (Seems there were some express reefers of this > configuration, though I don't think they were REA owned). These shots are on the Horseshoe curve; were there milk services that traversed that trackage? > One sure giveaway would be the absence of ice hatchs; most milk cars were > actually insulated 'box cars' or disguised tank cars. I took a closer look, and there are several cars of this description that are (apparently) identical except that some have ice hatches, and some don't. > You might take a look > at the F&C resin car kits in the Walthers HO catalog to see if any of their > many cars match up with what you've seen. Might be a starting point for > modeling tips. Thanks! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:54:10 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Fort Wayne Yard --- "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > I am looking for maps or aerial photos for the PRR > yards in Fort Wayne, > Indiana. Have any of you seen such information > published? You are familiar with terraserver.microsoft.com? If not, go there and try it out. Only rather recent stuff, though. > I would prefer information on the yard during the > PRR days and especially > with steam. I do have USGS Quad maps but they have > been updated over the > years and not really accurate as far as the yard is > concerned. > The Department of Agriculture has had a program of aerial photography going since the late mid-30's. It's been years since I looked into getting any photos. At that time, the older materials were housed at the National Archives because they were on nitrate-base film and therefore highly flammable. The Archives had the right storage conditions, Agriculture didn't. Don't know how things are organized now. "PRR days" covers a lot of days. Some of those days, depending on your interest, may go back into the non-safety film coverage. The National Archives has a web site at: http://www.nara.gov/ Haven't poked around there to see what info they may have on aerial photography. At worst, I suppose they would have an e-mail address and you could ask. Bonne chance, mon brave. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RGortowski@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:17:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR] Foreign Road Stockcars on FW-8 Ben Horn wrote: Did some research on an item someone posted a few weeks back concerning using the AHM NYC double deck stockcar for classes of CB&Q cars - picked up a copy of Burlington Bulletin No. 25, which is a double issue focusing on the Q's livestock operations and a great resource if you can get a copy List, This issue, a 136 page Bulletin is available from www.burlingtonroute.com and sells for $15.00 plus postage. It is a comprehensive look at the Q's stock cars and has a nice section on the Mather cars. A great resource. Rich Gortowski ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 20:43:36 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Re: Unusual Steam in H'burg area - Harrisburg Steel Craig, It's been a few years since the hurricane roared up the Susquehanna & flooded over the banks; 1972? After the waters receded, I went to Hershey Chocolate at the old factory & got the boiler room running again, 4160 volt gear. It was the start of many 12 to 16 hour days up & down the river getting companies back on line. I was at H'burg Steel about 12 hours total over 2 days. The fireless cooker was a 0-4-0. Can't remember if the outside shell was rounded on the front or square (flat face). For some odd reason, I think the nose was dished. Seeing & hearing it was a bright light while seeing the devastation all around. The RR Museum of PA has a cooker inside. H'burg Steel made at least 2 types of cylinders; the 5+/- foot & short 2+ footers; can see these on a gas supply truck. In those days cylinders were shipped by rail & truck. The headquarters bldg was on a small hillside. I can remember a yard with a gantry crane - that's where the diesels were stored waiting for their traction motors, possibly Alcos. Believe there was an elevated track so HS may have made their own steel at one time or may have bought them from other mills in PA. The billets were long & square. After reheating in the reheat furnace, the billet was placed in a mold & skewered with a long steel pole. Didn't get to see the neck forming operation. What's nice about HS is it was a small mill, just right for an empty corner. Gons/flats with steel billets, boxcars & small truck trailers with outgoing cylinders. If they produced their own steel, add coal/coke & ore cars. If electric arc furnaces, then gons with scrap and boxcars for the carbon electrodes. If you get a chance to see a steel mill in operation, go for the tour. Since most are electric arc furnaces nowadays, take some heavy duty ear plugs along! I was hustled off to a sewage pumping station up river so the plants in the outlying could call people back to work; because of the hours worked & time since, it's sort of a blur. If there is a historical society in H'burg, that's where I'd start first. Also check local map atlas for general layout. The tax department/assessor should still have the maps & other info on bldgs, etc. for property tax valuation purposes. It wouldn't hurt to put a personal ad in the newspaper for old retirees to respond to. --Bob Craig Bowman wrote: > > Hi Bob! > I saw your post on PRR-Talk about the > fireless cooker used by Harrisburg Steel > in the '50s. Very Interesting! Would you > happen to remember what color it was? > I have an article from Trains(?) that showed > the 0-6-0 used by the PP&L plant at > Shamokin. Neat little beast, yellow in > color. > Like Jerry Brittion, I'm interested in modeling > Harrisburg, but in '56. I knew that H'burg Steel > produced high pressure cylinders, but didn't know > much beyond that. What size cylinders did they make? > The smaller, 5 foot tall kinds or larger, industrial > tanks, or both? And how did they ship the finished > product? Boxcar? Gon? I assume they produced > their own billets, but what did they look like? > Large flat slabs or what? > If you can shed any light on these issues I would > appreciate hearing from you. I still don't know > just how much space I'll have for modeling purposes, > but I have considered including some part of the > local steel mills. My father's side of the family > grew up in Shipoke and quite a few worked in > the mills. > > Thanks for listening! > Craig Bowman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:47:28 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] R-50b on other lines Hello folks... Well we all (well some of us) were wondering if the R-50b was run anywhere else besides the Pennsy and AT&SF...Ok i submit this... In the September 1958 issue of "Trains" magazine on pages 38 and 39 is a picture of Central of Georgia train No. 2 taken at Irondale,Ala. in 1946. Now if that second car behind the engine is'nt a R-50b i'll eat a box car. Do enough digging and you can find them. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 23:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Slightly Off Topic-Builders Plate, Hi Guys, This may be a little off-topic but I wanted to throw this out to someone who may be of some help. Located at http://community.webtv.net/mittner/INTERESTINGITEMS/ is a photo of a Builders Plate? Got any opinions as to what this may have come from. It looks like the construction number is either 4944 or 4344. Date is 1898. I never seen one with the words SCHENECTADY LOCOMOTIVE WORKS. Is this pre Alco Loco Works? Could this be a Pennsy Plate? I have no books with this kind of info. Thanks in advance..... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:22:40 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Bowser N Scale N5 Cabin & other National Train Show news From: "Doug and Marianne" I met Lew and Lee English of BOWSER at the National Train Show in San Jose today. They had samples of their new N scale N5 cabin car and they look great. The detail is excellent with scale rivet detail. The wood roof walk molded separately and is very fine. The end railings, crash posts, and steps look good. The printing is excellent. The correct PRR trucks are being cast. Lee gave me a sample and I have posted photos of it at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=7529380 It will be available in 30 paint schemes including 12 PRR versions, and other versions for Conrail, PC, NH, LIRR, Amtrak, Cambria and Indiana, Detroit & Mackinac, PRSL, and B&M. The retail price will IS $24.95, which is not inexpensive, but this is an excellent model and the only alternative would be brass at well over $100. If this one does well, the N5c will follow. Other National Train Show News: KEY had a sample of their N scale brass PRR T1 4-4-4-4 due in September and it looks spectacular. MODEL RAILROAD STONEWORKS is now producing some of their plaster PRR stone bridges in N Scale including Rockville Bridge (8 arches) and a high stone arch viaduct. DES PLAINES HOBBIES will have something next spring "that will make N scale Pennsy modelers very happy." What that was they did not say, but Des Plaines has been producing passenger car kits with injection molded sides. Des Plaines Hobbies also had their new N scalefull width passenger car diaphrams on display and they seem to work very well. GHQ is very interested in "pushing the envelope" for N scale steam with more kits and detail parts such as their PRR L1 conversion kit for the Kato Mike. Back to the show tomorrow. Doug Nelson. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: [PRR] Harrisburg Steel Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 06:49:21 -0400 Howdy Guys: I don't have a picture of the fireless cooker, but I do have picture of this side rod Whitcomb or is it a Porter, http://www.wsbcos.com/hbgsteel5.jpg Anyway I took the picture in October 1987, it was sitting under the State Street bridge, that's the shadow in the picture. Note the now replace Transportation bldg in the background too! Cos Craig, I was at H'burg Steel about 12 hours total over 2 days. The fireless cooker was a 0-4-0. Can't remember if the outside shell was rounded on the front or square (flat face). For some odd reason, I think the nose was dished. Seeing & hearing it was a bright light while seeing the devastation all around. The RR Museum of PA has a cooker inside. --Bob Craig Bowman wrote: > > Hi Bob! > I saw your post on PRR-Talk about the > fireless cooker used by Harrisburg Steel > in the '50s. Very Interesting! Would you > happen to remember what color it was? > I have an article from Trains(?) that showed > the 0-6-0 used by the PP&L plant at > Shamokin. Neat little beast, yellow in > color. Cos President and CBW Cos Communications, Inc. Home of the Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road Home Page Railroad Pages ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Slightly Off Topic-Builders Plate, Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 07:18:00 -0700 Gary and all, SCHENECTADY LOCOMOTIVE WORKS was one of the companies that was merged to become American Locomotive Works (ALCO). The number is definately 4944 (my monitor might have better resolution than yours). I don't know what locomotive it came from, if indeed it came from a locomotive. As to it's being off a Pennsy locomotive, it is highly unlikely, since by 1898 the PRR was either utilizing it's own Altoona shops or on-line builders such as Baldwin or Lima (for Lines West) for all it's locomotove orders. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:25:45 -0400 I use Microscale, but I'm in N, so Champ decals are not available. I will say that Microscale is not uniform in color used. A 20 year old set has a color closer to the 'buff' used after 1954 than a set bought in the '90's. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Deimling" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 6:13 PM Subject: [PRR] Lettering > Who has the best decal color rendering of the dulux color used on diesels in > the early to middle 1950s? Is Champ better than Microscale? > Thanks, > Gene Deimling > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] Lettering Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:13:29 -0700 Who has the best decal color rendering of the dulux color used on diesels in the early to middle 1950s? Is Champ better than Microscale? Thanks, Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Jerry's longing for a Shay (long) I looked at the low-numbered books of the Logging Ralroad Era of Lumbering in Pennsylvania. Book 1 covers Dauphin, Lancaster, Lebanon, Northumberland, Montour, Union, Snyder, Mifflin, Juniata, Perry, Cumberland, Fulton, and Franklin counties. Adams and York counties are omitted, which I take to mean that Taber, Kline and Casler didn't know of any logging railroads in those counties. If the information in that book is to be used to justify having a Shay hanging aroung Harrisburg in 1954, the news is pretty grim. There weren't very many Shays (Climax seemed to have been the brand of choice), the few Shays there were were 36 or 42 inch gauge, and the latest date mentioned was in the 1920's. Book 2 covers the activities of the Whitmer and Steele companies, geographically, a strip running from eastern Centre county through northern Snyder county and an area in central Clearfield county. Unfortunately for Jerry, they had only one Shay, (in Clearfield county at that), it was 42 inch gauge, they didn't like it, and sold it. Book 3 gives some hope. It covers Bradford, Susquehanna, Wyoming, Luzerne, Columbia, and Sullivan counties, and that part of Lycoming county east of the Elmira Division/Branch. North of Williamsport, the PRR interchanged with the Susquehanna and New York, a standard gauge RR which operated in the interest of a lumber company headquartered at Laquin, now a ghost town. There is also some reference to mining activity in the area, but since TK&C are writing about logging RR's, they say no more about that. The S&NY or the logging company had several Shays. The bad news is that the logging company was out of business by 1932. Further, I don't think of the area northeast of Williamsport as anywhere near Harrisburg. Book 4, Tioga, Clinton, and the rest of Lycoming counties, tells of the rather extensive North Bend & Kettle Creek RR operation which interchanged with the PRR Renovo Division at North Bend, had Shays, was standard gauge. But again, time is the enemy. One picture includes an Empire Line boxcar, a bad sign if you're thinking 1954. The operation appears to have closed down in or before 1910. Besides, North Bend is pretty far out in the boondocks to explain something in Harrisburg. There were also Central Pennsylvania Lumber Co. operations on Pine Creek (unfortunately, NYC country) and a couple small ones along Lycoming Creek north of Williamsport. CPL seemed to prefer standard gauge, and had Shay's. But, operations closed down in or before 1921. One ray of hope. When Whitmer and Steele sold their Shay, it went to "...a coal company in Eastern Pennsylvania". As noted above, the books were written about logging and mention mining only in passing, or in explaining what a prop timber is. They do not pretend to list nor describe RR's operated by mining companies, unless it was the Timber Department of the mining company. So, there may have been one or more Shays operated by mining companies. That hope, however, seems quite dim. But if Jerry will purchase sufficient options for his modeller's license, including but not limited to the 40 Year Time Warp, the Geographic Distortion Option, and perhaps the Gauge Transform Option, a Shay fits right in to Harrisburg, circa 1954. In other words, some really creative lying is going to be needed. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 17:49:50 -0700 Gene, Although Microscale is very good, I would guess that Champ has the color right. Only problem with Champ is the lack of opacity of their colors, but I think that their Delux Yellow is relatively opaque. Bill Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Deimling To: PRR Talk Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 3:13 PM Subject: [PRR] Lettering > Who has the best decal color rendering of the dulux color used on diesels in > the early to middle 1950s? Is Champ better than Microscale? > Thanks, > Gene Deimling > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ESpot21@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:21:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) Forgive my ingorance...... What is a "fireless cooker"? How do they operate, where might I find a pic? Evan Miller Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: The Electric Generating at Holtwood also had a "fireless cooker" at least through the 50's.... Hmmm, maybe what we need is a model of a fireless cooker!!! Happy Rails Bruce __ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Fireless Cooker Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 12:47:57 +1000 Evan, A fireless cooker was a steam loco without a firebox. They are basically a big thermos flask which is pumped up with steam from another source and could get several hours of operation from this charge. They were mostly used in 2 places, those where a fire was dangerous or where a "free" source of Steam was available. Ammunition factories were one of the former and Steel mills in the second. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. > Forgive my ingorance...... What is a "fireless cooker"? > How do they operate, where might I find a pic? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:01:09 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Slightly Off Topic-Builders Plate, In a message dated 8/5/2000 10:26:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: > As to it's > being off a Pennsy locomotive, it is highly unlikely, since by 1898 the PRR > was either utilizing it's own Altoona shops or on-line builders such as > Baldwin or Lima (for Lines West) for all it's locomotove orders. Change the "all" to "most" and statement would be true; a good number of the standard locomotives still came from ALCO sites (e.g., Moguls from Rogers in Paterson), as well as the Cole-designed "experimentals" (J-28, K-28, etc.). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [PRR] Slightly Off Topic-Builders Plate, Hi Guys, Thanks for the contact via private emails and via this list on this subject. After much surfing and asking questions on the net the past day we found the info of this Builders Plate that we were looking for. http://community-2.webtv.net/mittner/INTERESTINGITEMS/ Seems this Plate belonged to a Class KA 0-6-0 Switcher of the Southern Pacific. Built in 1898 and scrapped in 1947. Not sure yet but the owner may list this on eBay in the future. Nice piece!.Thanks again, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] View Tail Car List, I was talking to a friend yesterday who vacationed on the east coast (Conn, Del. and ?) a few weeks ago. He mentioned that he visited a Railroad Museum/Tourist Line. I don't recall the name he spoke of. Anyway it was a rainy day and he couldn't get any closer to take pictures of this ex-PRR Tailcar that was sitting on the museum property in the high grass. He spotted PRR Mountain View. Could this be? Wasn't this car located at the Railroad Museum at Strasburg? It was there in the back sitting beside the DD1's when I was there in the mid 1980's. Did they trade/part with it? Or am I thinking of Metropolitan View that the PRR Museum owns?......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:16:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) In a message dated 8/5/2000 10:31:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ESpot21@aol.com writes: > Forgive my ingorance...... What is a "fireless cooker"? > How do they operate, where might I find a pic? A "fireless cooker" is a mobile thermodynamics laboratory: it works on the principle that liquids are incompressible, and the carrying solution (water) is supersaturated with heat (by steam injection) which will percolate steam out of solution (to be used in a regular steam engine mechanism) as needed; keep the compressed water hot enough, it will express steam as needed, when exhausted, run it over to a stationary steam plant for some more heat (as steam) and you can go for another four/six/eight hours. Used in places where 1) there was a lot of high temperature steam available (power plants), and 2) where a fire under a firebox would be a dangerous thing (chemical plants, e.g. Kodak). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 23:12:45 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Fireless Cookers & creosoting plants The boiler of a "fireless cooker" is built like a regular boiler except no firebox. It is mostly filled with water and steam is pumped into it. The water absorbs the steam and energy. The entire boiler is wrapped heavily in insulation; more than a regular steam engine. If the water cools off, the engine looses it's power. The engineer opens the throttle like a regular steamer & the engine goes forward or reverse. The steam that was absorbed into the water boils off & powers the loco. The "cooker" was used around plants that had a large enough boiler to feed the "cooker" every few hours and around plants that were flammable - lot of wood, coal, etc. The "cooker" was parked near the boiler house when not used so it could get quickly recharged. The engine was used at places where an engine was needed for a few moves (not like in a freight yard), one or 2 cars at a time, and was cheaper to operate than a regular steamer. No firebox, no fireman. Less boiler maintenance because of no firebox. Use of a firebox puts tremendous mechanical stresses on the boiler when it is fired up and the steel is not eaten away inside the boiler. Most of the impurities in the water were left back in the plant boiler. Creosoting plants were big users of the cookers because of the fire danger elimination. Now there's a plant that's tied into the railroad - ties for the RR in gons, telegraph/telephone poles in gons & flat cars with stake sides. My late great uncle was the manager of a creosoting plant in South Norfolk, VA. They are not large. Basically a one or 2 engine long bldg with one or 2 tracks leading to the creosoting pressure tanks. A boiler house (coal cars) and a few tanks for storing creosote. Tank cars filled with creosote are needed. A small yard for interchange with the RR. A small loco crane, 5 to 25 ton used, for loading the creosoted ties & poles. An area for storing plain wood. And a fireless cooker to move the cars & creosoting racks around. Didn't you say there was a lot of logging in PA?? Was there a creosoting plant in H'burg area. --Bob ESpot21@aol.com wrote: > > Forgive my ingorance...... What is a "fireless cooker"? > How do they operate, where might I find a pic? > > Evan Miller > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. wrote: > > The Electric Generating at Holtwood also had a "fireless cooker" at least > through the 50's.... > > Hmmm, maybe what we need is a model of a fireless cooker!!! > > Happy Rails > Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:51:33 -0400 Howdy Evan: Take a look at the Sunbury Fireless Locomotive @ http://www.wsbcos.com/pplfireless.jpg As you will see it looks just like a regular steam locomotive, the only thing missing is the firebox, The engine would be connected to a steam outlet from the plants boiler, if I remember correctly the unit in the picture operated at about 100psi. When fully charged the locomotive would operate like any other locomotive. The advantage for the power company is no messy firebox and nasty flues to clean up, and since they already had a boiler on site that could provide an almost inexhaustetable supply of steam, they where ready to go. If I remember correctly the unit is now at the RR Musuem of PA @ Strasburg. Cos Forgive my ingorance...... What is a "fireless cooker"? How do they operate, where might I find a pic? Evan Miller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 00:44:19 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] prr tailcar Hey all... I thought it was "Tower View" that was at Strasburg. What is this other car and where is "Tower View" ? Speaking prr passenger cars... are any "Twin Unit" diner sets around today ? Til Later H.Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 00:52:10 -0400 From: cobrandt@eclipse.net Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I was talking to a friend yesterday who vacationed on the east coast > (Conn, Del. and ?) a few weeks ago. He mentioned that he visited a > Railroad Museum/Tourist Line. I don't recall the name he spoke of. > Anyway it was a rainy day and he couldn't get any closer to take > pictures of this ex-PRR Tailcar that was sitting on the museum property > in the high grass. He spotted PRR Mountain View. Could this be? Wasn't > this car located at the Railroad Museum at Strasburg? It was there in > the back sitting beside the DD1's when I was there in the mid 1980's. > Did they trade/part with it? Or am I thinking of Metropolitan View that > the PRR Museum owns?......Gary "Mountain View" is at Whippany, NJ . Corner of Rte 10 and Whippany Rd. Last time I looked. -- Chris Brandt cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 01:18:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] prr tailcar In a message dated 8/5/00 11:52:14 PM Central Daylight Time, bubbles@visi.net writes: << I thought it was "Tower View" that was at Strasburg. What is this other car and where is "Tower View" ? >> What dates were these tail cars at Strasburg? I don't recall seeing any in 1993, the only time I was there. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 07:44:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car From: Jerry Britton On 8/5/00 11:15 PM, Gary Mittner at (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > I was talking to a friend yesterday who vacationed on the east coast > (Conn, Del. and ?) a few weeks ago. He mentioned that he visited a > Railroad Museum/Tourist Line. I don't recall the name he spoke of. > Anyway it was a rainy day and he couldn't get any closer to take > pictures of this ex-PRR Tailcar that was sitting on the museum property > in the high grass. He spotted PRR Mountain View. Could this be? Wasn't > this car located at the Railroad Museum at Strasburg? It was there in > the back sitting beside the DD1's when I was there in the mid 1980's. > Did they trade/part with it? Or am I thinking of Metropolitan View that > the PRR Museum owns? Of the two VIEW cars in question -- Mountain View and Tower View -- one is indeed at Strasburg, sitting in the non-publicly accessible area behind the museum. The other is privately owned and, if I searched for a while, I actually have the e-mail address of the owner. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 09:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car Chris, Bob, Jerry, Hank, List Chris, you are correct! THAT is the town, Whippany, where he saw Mountain View. Bob ,Hank, Jerry- Then that must mean it is Tower View at the Straburg museum site. Bob the last time I was there was 1982 or 1985, back then the car was sitting out of public view as Jerry stated it is still. If Jerry says it is still there it seems to have been passed over on any restoration jobs. Hank, I don''t know of any twin diners that still survive as a pair. But it wouldn't be out of the question for a single car of a set to be "rusting" away somewhere. ..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 10:07:15 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: prr tailcar [PRR] bubbles@visi.net wrote on 8/6/00 4:44 am: >I thought it was "Tower View" that was at Strasburg. >What is this other car and where is "Tower View" ? Mountain View is in private hands and can occaisionally be seen tacked onto Amtrak trains. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 12:24:44 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] Harrisburg Steel Craig and Listers, I have photos of the PP&L loco from 1989-1990 when their diesel was down for maintenance. My family and I were on our way to Montoursville when we stopped at the McD's in Shamokin Dam for lunch. While eating our lunch I heard a "chuff-chuff-chuff-WHISTLE" of a steam loco nearby. I saw a plume of moving white "smoke" just beyond a row of homes behind McD's. I grabbed my camera, dropped my lunch, and did one of the best examples of broken-field running my wife has ever seen toward the "smoke". When I was close enought to see what it was, I was watching this bright Yellow 0-6-0 knocking hopper cars around at the PP&L plant. Less than three months later, RMC did an article on the very same loco. I don't remember the issue or date but I still have the pictures. Regards, Nick At 06:49 AM 8/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >Howdy Guys: >I don't have a picture of the fireless cooker, but I do have picture of >this side rod Whitcomb or is it a Porter, >http://www.wsbcos.com/hbgsteel5.jpg >Anyway I took the picture in October 1987, it was sitting under the State >Street bridge, >that's the shadow in the picture. Note the now replace Transportation bldg >in the background too! >Cos > >Craig, >I was at H'burg Steel about 12 hours total over 2 days. The fireless >cooker was a 0-4-0. Can't remember if the outside shell was rounded on >the front or square (flat face). For some odd reason, I think the nose >was dished. Seeing & hearing it was a bright light while seeing the >devastation all around. The RR Museum of PA has a cooker inside. >--Bob >Craig Bowman wrote: >> >> Hi Bob! >> I saw your post on PRR-Talk about the >> fireless cooker used by Harrisburg Steel >> in the '50s. Very Interesting! Would you >> happen to remember what color it was? >> I have an article from Trains(?) that showed >> the 0-6-0 used by the PP&L plant at >> Shamokin. Neat little beast, yellow in >> color. >Cos >President and CBW Cos Communications, Inc. >Home of the Lancaster & Atlantic Rail Road >Home Page >Railroad Pages > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] B-6sb Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 10:56:57 -0700 I am interested in finding out if many of the "late" model B6sb locos ran in the East such as the Camden or Philly area. I am interested in the 1952 to 1954 era. Does anyone know the appropiate numbers? Thanks, Gene ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb Gene, A quick run down of some of my photos show these B6sb's that worked the east. No particular order. # 6389 Camden 1955 # 6391 Camden 1957 # 6378 Soth Philly 1950 # 5252 Wilmington, Del. 1951 # 5244 Camden 1956 # 6096 Camden 1956 # 6368 E Trenton 1949 # 6376 E Trenton 1949 # 6399 Camden 1957 # 5261 W Philly 1958 (dead) ......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:34:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb Gene, Check Pennsy Power 1 & 2, #5244 operated on a lease to Union Transportation at New Egypt, NJ until July 1959, she was scrapped March 1960. Ed Martin...banned by Cajon Div., P.S.R, N.M.R.A. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:54:33 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering Gene, list, I find that Champ's decals are more forgiving of handling, and they react well to Solvaset. Microscale's decals are almost as good, but they do fewer steam era sets (I've used their decals for NYC, Susquehanna, LNE, and MARC locomotives). Champ's decals are very consistent (at least in the decade and a half I've been doing decals), and I like their rendition of the dulux gold color. On the sheet, the decal looks orange, but as Champ points out in their instructions and their catalog, the color becomes dulux gold once applied to the model. I've done an EP-20, two EP-22s, and two EF-15as with Champ's PRR 5 stripe decals, and I've been very pleased with the results. I've also used their freight and switcher diesel sets, as well as about a million PH-4D dulux gold PRR passenger car sets for my Eastern Car Works P70 coaches. Doug Gene Deimling wrote: > Who has the best decal color rendering of the dulux color used on diesels in > the early to middle 1950s? Is Champ better than Microscale? > Thanks, > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:46:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb Gene, Don Wood's book I REMEMBER PENNSY, shows B-6sb #1733 at Camden Terninal. The caption goes on to state, "Pennsy's fleet of sturdy 0-6-0's were popular shifters in and around Camden and Philadelphia". Photo also shows #4182 out of Camden. Sorry Gene, no dates. Since it's Don Wood's stuff it's safe to say 1950's. Ed Martin...member of the gang of two ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:09:15 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb Gene, list, I'm assuming that you're interested in the B6sb engines that had small steel cabs. There's a good shot of B6sb 6399 (next to last B6sb built, Juniata 12/26, Dr 4/58) on page 66 of Pennsy Power III. The photo is dated June 17, 1957. You'll have more choices if you can model a B6sb with the larger, earlier cab. Carleton's Pennsy Steam: A to T has B6sb 5261 at Camden in June 1956 on page 18. On page 19 there are pictures of B6sb 5224, which has the older cab, but has the revised headlight and generator locations. She's at Camden sometime in 1957. The last active PRR steamer, the 5244, also an engine with the original cab, is the subject of two photos on page 20. She worked in the Camden area until July, 1959. Also pictured on page 20 are B6sb engines 4001 and 4165 at Camden on 4 August 1956. Hope this gets you started. If you need the build dates and scrap dates of the engines, let me know. I have Edson's PRR steam roster. Doug Gene Deimling wrote: > I am interested in finding out if many of the "late" model B6sb locos ran in > the East such as the Camden or Philly area. I am interested in the 1952 to > 1954 era. Does anyone know the appropiate numbers? > Thanks, > Gene > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:15:18 -0400 The 5244 was the last active PRR steam locomotive and her number plate was mounted on a wooden plaque and was hung in the Chairman's office. Does anyone know where it eventually ended up? I was not aware PRR changed the cab style on B6bs, except the clones built for Akron & Barberton Belt and Washington Terminal. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] B-6sb > Gene, > > Check Pennsy Power 1 & 2, #5244 operated on a lease to Union Transportation > at New Egypt, NJ until July 1959, she was scrapped March 1960. > > Ed Martin...banned by Cajon Div., P.S.R, N.M.R.A. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] PRR Truc-Train Concrete Ramp Plans Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:48:43 -0400 PRR Talk-listers: I recently went through my PRR stuff and come across a set of blue print plans entitled: "Standard Concrete Ramp Truc-Train Facilites". On the lower right hand corner of the 24" by 36" plan sheet is the standard PRR block title; there is no date but I would imagine that the standard is from the late 1950's - early 1960's. The reference number is 43017. IT was drafted in pencil and not in ink. The length or the run of the ramp is 50 feet. The ramp incline is at 7%. The plan or top view of the ramp shows three truck lanes sharing the same incline with the spacing varying from 13'-6" to 14'-4". Although shown for three truck lanes, it looks like the number of truck lanes could be added to accommodate more. Near the top of the ramp are concrete triangular wedges (9' long and 6' wide that serve to separate the truck lanes and to assist the trailer wheels on to the centerline of the track and flat car. The construction of the ramp is reinforced portland cement concrete. Does anyone else have this PRR standard plan? I grabbed these (three copies) at the old Fort Wayne shop building when I worked with Conrail in 1986. The building and all the misc. papers and stuff strewn about inside were going to be raized soon so I grabbed what I thought was of interest. These plans stood out. It there are any model manufacturers on this list that would be interested in getting a copy of this plan, please contact me off line. I would be more that happy in furnishing you a copy. In my modelling opinion, this standard plan provides enough information so that a model of the ramp can be made out of either resin or injection molded plastic. Although a PRR standard, it could easity be marketed to those modelling other RR's. Before you ask, I do not have the know how or the equipment to make and sell this ramp on my own but I am willing to give the plan to those who do. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:53:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: [PRR] A GOOD day for an SPF Howdy Y'all, I guess I just had a pretty good day fro an SPF...if you're willing to excuse the fact that the camera spent the day at home instead of the car... Had "baby duties" (the 2 1/4 yr old daughter) this morning while Mom went in to work on her linear accelerator, so we set out for the local home center, only to catch an eastbound CSX freight and chase it 10 mile east. In the consist were two likely ex-prr cars (sorry no numbers) a G34 painted (CR) red, stenciled "Coil Steel Only) and with (SIGH) NYC reporting marks, and a G33 painted CR MOW grey. On our way home, we caught an westbound CSX, and low an behold, 5 cars back was... PRR 480369 in PRR PAINT!!!!!! (an F47 flat). The car was serving as an idler for a TTX 80 ish foot car with 85 ish foot steel plates (3 of the loads, with idlers made up the front of this train). The car deck was a shambles and the front truch was hunting so badly I thought that the car was going on the ground in front of my eyes!!! All in all, a pretty darn good day for an SPF, in AUBURN ALABAMA! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Truc-Train Concrete Ramp Plans Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:58:18 -0400 Sounds like Lancaster has two of these standard ramps. Right at the Dillerville Engine yard. I don't think I have any photos of the ramps by themselves. Maybe I'll take a few for future reference. Cos The length or the run of the ramp is 50 feet. The ramp incline is at 7%. The plan or top view of the ramp shows three truck lanes sharing the same incline with the spacing varying from 13'-6" to 14'-4". Although shown for three truck lanes, it looks like the number of truck lanes could be added to accommodate more. Near the top of the ramp are concrete triangular wedges (9' long and 6' wide that serve to separate the truck lanes and to assist the trailer wheels on to the centerline of the track and flat car. The construction of the ramp is reinforced portland cement concrete. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] CHris Thurner. Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:48:11 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C00086.E42017A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHris, I still can't get to you on your email. Do you want the loco or not. I must know by tonight. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C00086.E42017A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

CHris,

I still can't get to you on your=20 email.

Do you want the loco or = not.

I must know by tonight.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C00086.E42017A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 03:40:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering Gene and all, Let's try to remember that the PRR used Buff as their letting color on locomotives until the sixties when the Dulux color changed for the numerals. I have all the MICROSCALE sets here at my desk for review, but if you are in a hurry try Champ, their color is certainly very close. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 04:50:00 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Lines West Keystone >From time to time there has been discussion here about a Lines West Keystone. I just looked at an item on eBay (#399572234) which shows a picture of some Lines West paper. A couple of the forms have a keystone with the initials PL intertwined. Can't make out the dates on the forms. One may be 1919. The whole lot is said to be from 1912-1929. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ralph J. Marshall" Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:28:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [PRR] PRR Haiku hai-ku (n.) A Japanese lyric verse form having three unrhymed lines of five, seven, and five syllables, traditionally invoking an aspect of nature or the seasons. A Hippo drags coal. Tuscan sleepers in the night. Both ride the Broad Way. New York Penn Station. Horseshoe Curve lost in thick fog. On to Chicago! Broadway Limited. K-4 refills from track pans. 16 hours fly by. --------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Marshall WorldStreet Corp. Technical Lead 465 Medford St. Boston, MA 02129 Email: rmarshall@worldstreet.com Voice: 617/918-2513 http://www.worldstreet.com Fax: 617/918-2501 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: [n_scale] Bowser N Scale N5 Cabin & other National Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:15:17 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 4 Aug, "Doug and Marianne" wrote: > DES PLAINES HOBBIES will have something next spring "that will make N scale > Pennsy modelers very happy." What that was they did not say, but Des > Plaines has been producing passenger car kits with injection molded sides. > Des Plaines Hobbies also had their new N scalefull width passenger car > diaphrams on display and they seem to work very well. The current N-Scale mag has their ad showing an SP RPO (part #DPN1510, I think); maybe there's hope for a PRR RPO! For that matter, they already offer 6-6-4 (4099) and 4-4-2 (4069m) Pullmans; has anybody seen these? Jerry's pages show that PRR had 4069B and D; are they close enough for a kitbash? Can't find anything about a 6-6-4, but the table has blanks and you never say never about the Pennsy! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:09:57 DST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Haiku From: aurora7@juno.com At last I am in harmony with the perfect aspects of nature! Thank you! Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 07:27:42 -0700 Gene, Greg and all; One more item...while Microscale does an excellent job with most (not all) of their decals, Champ uses a letterpress printing style that for the Pennsy locomotive decals looks excellent. In HO the crisp edges of the lettering are obivious (imagine what they look like in O scale) and the sets are totally first class. I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending them. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Lettering > Gene and all, > > Let's try to remember that the PRR used Buff as their letting color on > locomotives until the sixties when the Dulux color changed for the numerals. > I have all the MICROSCALE sets here at my desk for review, but if you are in > a hurry try Champ, their color is certainly very close. > > > Greg Martin > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:44:59 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [n_scale] Bowser N Scale N5 Cabin & other National Dennis and folks, While I'm not in N scale, it's good to see Des Plaines putting out some new models. I've never seen any indication that Pennsy actually owned 6-6-4 sleepers, but it seems to me they operated in Washington-Montreal service under CN ownership. Also, didn't New Haven own some cars of this configuration? Being at work, I can't check offhand, but one of the New England lines owned them, and if not NH than B&M would be a natural candidate. seems BAR had them as well. Off-topic, I wonder if Des Plaines Hobby is still right across the street from the C&NW depot? And, if so, is that wonderful Polish Smorgasborg, Sawa's, still next door? Boy oh boy, there was truly a pair to draw to! Regards folks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:31:08 -0400 Hi all, The Mountain View is privately owned and stored on the Morristown & Erie in front of the Whippany Railway Museum in Whippany, NJ. Last time I drove by it was coupled up to the Alder Falls, another PRR car. Last I heard it was up for sale for $250,000 or so. I'm a member of the Whippany Museum and we used to use the Mountain View on our holiday trips as a place for Santa or the Easter Bunny to hang out and also as a HEP source to light the NJ Transit coaches in the train. It was fun to ride in, even if only over a couple of miles of fairly bad track! It hasn't been used for this in a year or two though. We're getting a PRR N5c which is slated to get a generator installed to serve as a HEP generator car for the trips in the next year or two. The current thought is to paint it up in the Shadow Keystone scheme... The Tower View is in Strasburg. Their line from their web page about it follows.... No. 8420 (Tower View) Pennsylvania Railroad, observation-sleeper, Class POS-21, built Pullman Company, 1948, Plan No. 4133. Usually assigned to the "Broadway Limited". Rob http://prr.railfan.net > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary > Mittner > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 11:16 PM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: [PRR] View Tail Car > > > List, > > I was talking to a friend yesterday who vacationed on the east coast > (Conn, Del. and ?) a few weeks ago. He mentioned that he visited a > Railroad Museum/Tourist Line. I don't recall the name he spoke of. > Anyway it was a rainy day and he couldn't get any closer to take > pictures of this ex-PRR Tailcar that was sitting on the museum property > in the high grass. He spotted PRR Mountain View. Could this be? Wasn't > this car located at the Railroad Museum at Strasburg? It was there in > the back sitting beside the DD1's when I was there in the mid 1980's. > Did they trade/part with it? Or am I thinking of Metropolitan View that > the PRR Museum owns?......Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Prr Minitrix K4 N scale Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 12:48:46 EDT Group, I am not really familiar with N scale and have a chance to buy a Minitrix N scale K4, It is used but in good condition, Is it worth purchasing? How good does it come to Prototype? What would be a fair price? Any info would be helpful. Sam Thanks in advance ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:08:19 -0500 When I was at the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum in early July, I saw what appeared to me as a "View" observation from the '38 Fleet of Modernism. It was on the set of tracks along with a GG1, some other passenger cars, etc. There was no lettering on the car. Can anyone fill me in more on it? Thanks in advance, Jerry Colman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Jerry C, The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? Not sure of the car class/name you seen at Altoona. Could very well be a 38' car.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:35:01 -0500 I was curious since that car had the exact shape as my Challenger model of the Skyline View from the '38 set. It was distinctive from the '48 Broadway "Views" in that the end was pointed more sharply on the car I saw. -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:22 PM To: Colman Gerald; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Jerry C, The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? Not sure of the car class/name you seen at Altoona. Could very well be a 38' car.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:45:29 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: [PRR] Tail Cars The cars in Altoona came from the 38 train. There is an obs and a mid train lounge. A gentleman from Phillipsburg, Mr. Sellers, repatriated the cars from Mexico. The interiors of the cars are wonderful. Several years ago the Altoona people acquired the cars from Mr. Sellers and had them moved to Altoona. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:15:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car From: Jerry Britton On 8/7/00 1:22 PM, Gary Mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' > Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a > Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, > maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? In 1948, there was Tower View and Mountain View, both for the Broadway Limited. In 1938, there was Metropolitan View and Skyline View for the Broadway Limited, and Federal View and Washington View for the Liberty Limited. The Liberty Limited and many other named trains, in 1948, received "____ NARROWS" cars. The floor plan differed from the 1948 "_____ VIEW" cars. The corridor side looked the same, but the window pattern on the bedroom side is different. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 14:08:14 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car SKYLINE VIEW and METROPOLITAN VIEW were the 2 observation cars for the 38 BWAY. They too had the master suites. One of them may have been kept in protection service for the 48 BWAY. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Colman Gerald wrote: > > I was curious since that car had the exact shape as my Challenger model of > the Skyline View from the '38 set. It was distinctive from the '48 Broadway > "Views" in that the end was pointed more sharply on the car I saw. > > -----Original Message----- > From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:22 PM > To: Colman Gerald; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car > > Jerry C, > > The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' > Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a > Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, > maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? > Not sure of the car class/name you seen at Altoona. Could very well > be a 38' car.......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:21:01 -0400 According to the PRR diagrams on my site both there were 6 View series cars, 4 from '38 and 2 from '48... The two '48 view cars are PRR class POS21, car #'s 8419, Mountain View and #8420, Tower view. PRR contract #4489-3-G, Pullman lot # 6792, Pullman plan # 4133. Reference: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=pos21_fp.gif&sel=obsl& sz=sm The four '38 cars are class POS21A, purchased by the PRR from Pullman in 1945. Car #8114-Federal View, #8816-Metropolitan View, #7180-Skyline View, and #7181 Washington View. Pullman Lot 6546, floor plan 4080A. (note that the 8's may be 6's and vice versa, the diagram was hard to read...) Reference: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=pos21a_fp.gif&sel=obsl &sz=sm Hope this clears up some of this... Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Gary > Mittner > Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:22 PM > To: Colman Gerald; PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: RE: [PRR] View Tail Car > > > Jerry C, > > The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' > Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a > Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, > maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? > Not sure of the car class/name you seen at Altoona. Could very well > be a 38' car.......Gary > > > > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:21:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car In a message dated 8/7/00 12:28:12 PM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' Broadway >> The Metropolitan View and Skyline View were built for the 1938 Broadway. The Washington View and Federal View were built for the Liberty Limited in the same time frame. The day I photographed the observation car in question at Altoona, it was covered by a tarp from the fourth window from the end back,so I can't verify for sure if it is one of the View cars. What is not under the tarp matches . Don't forget Metropolitan View and Skyline View were assigned to the General in 1949 after Tower View and Mountain View arrived on the Broadway, so could well have been around long enough for one of them to be saved. I love those triple bolster trucks and I got a closeup, though dark, shot during the visit in 1993. Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:23:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tail Cars In a message dated 8/7/00 12:52:28 PM Central Daylight Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: << A gentleman from Phillipsburg, Mr. Sellers, repatriated the cars from Mexico. The interiors of the cars are wonderful. >> Before I sent my previous post, I forgot that they went to Mexico after removal from the General. Are the interiors close to the original at all? I would love to see the real-world version of Loewy's sketches and photographs. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:47:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car In a message dated 8/7/00 1:36:16 PM Central Daylight Time, robs@actel.com writes: << Hope this clears up some of this... >> My curiosity has now been aroused. Does anyone know which of the four cars went to Mexico and when? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:54:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Tail Cars In a message dated 8/7/00 1:42:59 PM Central Daylight Time, v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net writes: << The tail car might be Lewistown Narrows a/k/a Wake Island. >> A Spirit of St. Louis car, though the P-S book says Jacks Narows became Wake Island--don't know if that is true. Unfortunately, my photo is of only a portion of the corridor side, so can't tell if it is a 1938 View or Narrows car. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Train #758 List, Now that the View Tail Car subject has been pretty much answered, I got another one. I have a photo of G5 # 5728 in Freedom, Pa. on 11-18-36. Photo data states this is train #758. I have no timetables of this time period. Does anyone? I presume this is most likely a commuer job (P-54 coach next to tender) making its daily run. Most importantly I would like to know its final destination. Did this train, #758, take the Bayard Bracnh to Stuebenville, Ohio or did it continue on the Ft Wayne Main towards Beaver Falls or points further west, ie: East Palestien, Ohio or north to Sharon, Pa, via the Kopple Secondary. Need the answer for modeling purposes....TIA, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jpk815@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:57:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR ex-NW Mallets I am working on super-detailing a Rivarossi ex-NW 2-8-8-2 Mallet in N-Scale. I have some good photos of the PRR conversion (which was minimal) from Pennsy Power I. My main quesion concerns the cab roof and tender deck. Were they given the same oxide red coloring that many PRR steamers were treated to or were they just left DGLE. From the photos they appear to be a solid color throughout, but it's hard to tell in B&W. Also need info on the smokebox and visible portion of the firebox. Any thoughts appreciated. Jay Keese NVNTRAK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:19:58 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] MP54's Is there any hope that a plastic version will ever be produced in HO? I would like to have upwards of ten cars some day. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:01:43 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Tail Cars I seem to recall a series of cars being painted into NdeM colors at Penn Coach yard in, I hate to admit, the late fifty's or early 60's.The was a long open shed under the High Line and the cars were to the west of the shed. Please don't ask what I had for lunch today. BL robert netzlof wrote: > > --- Bennett Levin > wrote: > > Those are the cars that went to Altoona. > > > > robert netzlof wrote: > > > > > > --- Bennett Levin > > > wrote: > > > > The cars in Altoona came from the 38 train. > > There is > > > > an obs and a mid > > > > train lounge. A gentleman from Phillipsburg, Mr. > > > > Sellers, repatriated > > > > the cars from Mexico. > > > > > > > > > I assume that's Phillipsburg, PA? > > > > > > Are these the cars which sat for several years > > just > > > south of US322 as you came into downtown > > Phillipsburg? > > > > As I recall, when I first saw those cars they were in > what I thought to be Union Pacific colors. Perhaps the > Mexicans had a bunch of ex-UP cars and painted the > ex-PRR stock to match? Do you know the story on that? > Or am I mis-remembering? (Not that I would _ever_ do > that, you understand.) > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:27:52 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car Hi Jerry: I believe the Narrows cars, like Jack's Narrows, were round end obs's from the late thirty's. The Liberty Limited, Cincinnati Limited and the Spirit of St. Louis of the 1949 variety were given the seven blunt end cars that were named after past presidents like Samuel Rea, Thomas Alexander Scott, etc. Regards, Larry Jerry Britton wrote: > On 8/7/00 1:22 PM, Gary Mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > > > The View cars were built for the 1948 Broadway, not the 38' > > Broadway. They were Mountain View and Tower View, There was also a > > Metropolitin View as well. I suppose this was for the Broadway too, > > maybe as a backup? if one of the others were down? > > In 1948, there was Tower View and Mountain View, both for the Broadway > Limited. > > In 1938, there was Metropolitan View and Skyline View for the Broadway > Limited, and Federal View and Washington View for the Liberty Limited. > > The Liberty Limited and many other named trains, in 1948, received "____ > NARROWS" cars. The floor plan differed from the 1948 "_____ VIEW" cars. The > corridor side looked the same, but the window pattern on the bedroom side is > different. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:39:46 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54's NDBPRR@aol.com (Sorry, but you didn't sign your name) said in regard to MP54's: >Is there any hope that a plastic version will ever be produced in HO? I >would like to have upwards of ten cars some day. Well, it depends on how wealthy you feel and what you want . Trainstuff LLC is offering ready to run HO MP54s as follows: #1003A HO MP-54 double door head end mail car/ready to run $125.00 #1003B HO MP-54 passenger-baggage /ready to run $125.00 #1003C HO MP-54 all passenger coach /ready to run $125.00 #1003D HO MP-54 dummy coach $75.00 You can find out more at their web site http://www.trainstuffllc.com/index2.html I keep hoping for MP-54 kits from Eastern Car Works that would allow either the unpowered or powered versions to be built, and of course, offer sides for baggage, combine, RPO, coach etc...guess I'll have to scratchbuild (and the second I finish, you can be ECW will announce the "P-54" line) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:45:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] View Tail Car From: Jerry Britton On 8/7/00 6:27 PM, Larry Reynolds (reynoldl@gte.net) wrote: > I believe the Narrows cars, like Jack's Narrows, were round end obs's from the > late thirty's. The Liberty Limited, Cincinnati Limited and the Spirit of St. > Louis of the 1949 variety were given the seven blunt end cars that were named > after past presidents like Samuel Rea, Thomas Alexander Scott, etc. > Yes, I stand corrected! Geez, I knew that!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:50:42 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Scuttlebut... From: Jerry Britton Folks, an "insider" on our list promises more details to the masses tomorrow, but here's a teaser as a result of last week's San Jose show... Plastic R-50b's...yes, probably by year end. Plastic Dynometer Car (sorry Rail Works!). Plastic Sperry Rail Detector Car (sorry again Rail Works!). Plastic mid fifties REAX riveted side Express reefer. Plastic Budd Streamlined Stainless steel passsenger cars Also, the Stewart Baldwin VO-1000 switcher is now an active project again. Though not yet PUBLICLY announced by Life Like, the rumored P1K C-Liner B units and P1K Erie-built A and B units are a "go" for Christmas! All for now...salivate on that for 24 hours! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Prr Minitrix K4 N scale Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:45:42 -0400 Sam and others in PRR talk: The Minitrix is not an accurate model, the wheelbase is that of a German Class 01 Pacific, as is the valve gear. The cab is too long and other dimensions have been altered to fit the German mechanism. But, it is a fairly good runner, athough fast, and is worth somewhere around $40.00 up from those I have seen sold on eBay. Minitrix bankrupted and was bought by Marklin, who no longer manufactures any Minitrix U.S. models. I added details to mine and repainted it DGLE and I think it looks good. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Vastano" To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: [PRR] Prr Minitrix K4 N scale > Group, > > I am not really familiar with N scale and have a chance to buy a Minitrix N > scale K4, It is used but in good condition, Is it worth purchasing? How > good does it come to Prototype? What would be a fair price? Any info would > be helpful. > > > Sam > > Thanks in advance > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR ex-NW Mallets Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:58:15 -0400 Jay:: There are a great many other changes that need to be made, as Rivarossi's model is of a Y6b and the PRR 2-8-8-2's were Y3's. To start, at as minimum you would need to change to a cab with a vertical rather than backward sloped front wall, remove the feedwater heater from in front of the stack and put a Worthington BL on the fireman's side, change to inboard bearing lead and trailing trucks, and make a tender from Bachmann's N&W water car. You'd probably have to do less work on an Atlas-Samhongsa 2-8-8-2 go get an accurate model. I suspect that since these were WW1 "draftees" they just had a coat of DGLE slapped on them, although Keystone number plates were applied. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 3:57 PM Subject: [PRR] PRR ex-NW Mallets > I am working on super-detailing a Rivarossi ex-NW 2-8-8-2 Mallet in N-Scale. > I have some good photos of the PRR conversion (which was minimal) from Pennsy > Power I. My main quesion concerns the cab roof and tender deck. Were they > given the same oxide red coloring that many PRR steamers were treated to or > were they just left DGLE. From the photos they appear to be a solid color > throughout, but it's hard to tell in B&W. Also need info on the smokebox and > visible portion of the firebox. Any thoughts appreciated. > > Jay Keese > NVNTRAK > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] New Miracle Castings mailing lists created! Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 19:25:38 -0400 Hi All! I just wanted to let people know that I've created two new mailing lists on egroups.com for people interested in Miracle Castings Inc. and its products. The first list is for official announcements only, and will be very low volume. You can see this list at http://www.egroups.com/group/mciannounce The other list is a general discussion list for customers, dealers, and MCI staff, and will be for trading info on building techniques, technical issues, wishes for future products, etc. etc. You can access this list at http://www.egroups.com/group/mcidiscussion Please note that to access these lists, you need to register for egroups.com, which is both easy and free! Just click on "subscribe" from the list's page, and it will run you through the process in about two minutes. Hope to see you on the lists! Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. Miracle Castings Inc. - Manufacturers of fine resin model railroad kits. Web site: http://mc.cyklone.com/ Phone: (519) 754-6945 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bruce Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54's Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 19:54:30 -0400 A possible source for resin kits of MP54's (sorry not plastic) is the following web site http://www7.bcity.com/ewchase Has anyone tried one of these? Bruce Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 20:02:34 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] MP54's As long as you guys brought it up, Funaro and Camerlengo are planning to release a full line of just about all the versions of the MP54's and other LIRR and PRR MU cars in one piece resin models. Also, a variety of PRR baggage cars, B60, BM60, horse cars and scenery cars are in the works. They should start appearing within the year, either under their name or Hobby Images (I think). Also being considered are box cab electrics, but these will depend on the availability of suitable mechanisms. Elliot Fishbein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:46:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Train #758 Hi Gary. I have a (reprint) copy of the January 1930 Official Guide, but I haven't been able to find a train 758 yet. I'll probably make another pass through the PRR pages tonight before I give it up for lost, at least in 1930. It would be easier if the "index of stations" listed ALL the tables that Freedom PA is in, but it doesn't... it just lists the "biggies" for the main east-west trains. Jim Anderson Thorndale, PA sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] C-Liner Trainphone Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:39:24 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01C4_01C0012D.4D005F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry (I Think), A quite good photo overhead (distant) of a C-Liner A & B is on the = second page of NJI's "Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania And Long Island = Railroads" It may be of soem use. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_01C4_01C0012D.4D005F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jerry (I Think),

A quite good photo overhead (distant) = of a C-Liner=20 A & B is on the second page of NJI's "Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania = And=20 Long Island Railroads"

It may be of soem use.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.

------=_NextPart_000_01C4_01C0012D.4D005F40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:51:08 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54's >A possible source for resin kits of MP54's (sorry not plastic) is the >following web site > >http://www7.bcity.com/ewchase > >Has anyone tried one of these? I purchased 2 from Mr. Chase a couple of years ago. These are basically a set of flat resin castings that he made from the old walthers kits, including sides, ends, a wood roof, and cast underbody details. They include the walthers instruction sheets and he sent some additional data sheets. The walthers sides were pressed sheet metal and bear little resemblance to the actual sides of an mp54 (single rows of rivets, no overlapping sheet metal etc). My plan has been to scratchbuild or kitbash (perhaps from an ECW P70, althout the window spacing is wrong) the sides. Now, if Walthers continues to upgrade and re-introduce these old passenger car kits...(like the Oscar and Piker ) Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Train #758 Jim, Thanks for your effort. I did manage to find a 1945 TT but nothing in there either. I should have stated Freedom, Pa. is about 20 or so miles west of Pittsburgh. Every train listed in my TT had no numbers even close to 758. I have a feeling system wide TT's may not include comuter local train numbers in which I think this G5 is pulling. Probably have to get a hold of a localized TT if there is such a thing. I am not much into paper collectables.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 22:07:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Scuttlebut... In a message dated 8/7/00 4:58:15 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Plastic R-50b's...yes, probably by year end. >> Now I have to race to paint my brass one which I picked up at a bargain about 10 years ago. I do have a factory painted one which is a sickly purple color (Korean version of tuscan red?). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 03:15:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] Stewart VO-1000 One thing I forgot to report about the new Baldwin is that the unit comes with exhaust stack options. The shell has blind holes that will need to drilled out for the stacks. Four stacks of two different heights are included with the unit. -------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 00:44:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Scuttlebut... In a message dated 00-08-07 17:58:23 EDT, you write: << Also, the Stewart Baldwin VO-1000 switcher is now an active project again. >> Jerry and the group , not only is the VO-1000 an active project but the fact that Steve Stewart had a complete running sample with all the detail sprues and the unit has a full interior complete with visible brake wheel means that tjis is more than an active project. In a first for US model railroading Stewart is having Ajin in Korea do the unit. This is the first non brass unit they have done for the US market. The unit details rival that of any brass unit out there. While I knew that a VO-1000 would be shown at the convention I was blown away when I saw the unit running back and forth on the display track. According to Steve we should see the first production units by this November. Stewart will offer both the Phase 2 and 3 versions which feature either a cast frame and curved walkway guards and the Fabricated frame and no curved walkway guards. Steve told me the Phase one version which had the oval front radiator grille may be done in the future. Also in talking with Lee English he mentioned that Bowser will be offering the H-21 with the non reinforced top rib and the quad bays. This will give a H-21E I believe. -------------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 07:04:02 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] MP-54's Hi, A company named Trainstuff LLC is doing MP-54's as HO scale resin kits. Can't vouch as to quality, but I think there are some pix on their website: www.trainstuffllc.com/index2.html Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:51:42 DST Subject: Re: [PRR] MP54's From: aurora7@juno.com On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:19:58 EDT NDBPRR@aol.com writes: > Is there any hope that a plastic version will ever be produced in HO? > I would like to have upwards of ten cars some day. > > Low cost, plastic, in both PRR and LIRR configurations. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 12:56:09 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Hbg steel Here's some more stuff on Hbg Steel - Yahoo has gotten a lot better since taking over Google! Harrisburg Steel new name-> http://www.harsco.com/ Univ of Alabama library's collection of Hbg Steel annual reports 1935-55-> http://www.cba.ua.edu/bruno/histars/h.htm from-> http://www.pabiztech.com/issue01/SolarCar.htm "For those who do not know the name "Harsco" they, like Messiah are an organization that does great things with a minimum of fanfare. In fact, Harsco is one of Central Pennsylvania's largest public companies, with worldwide operations in over 30 countries and close to 15,000 employees. Harsco Corporation traces its roots to America's colonial past. The company's Taylor-Wharton unit began as a High Bridge, New Jersey iron forge in 1742, making it one of the oldest continually operating metalworking companies in America. Early products included cannonballs for George Washington's Continental Army. In the 1850's, another Harsco predecessor, the Harrisburg Car Manufacturing Company, built some of the first oil tank cars for the growing American railroad industry. Later known as the Harrisburg Steel Corporation, the company became Harsco Corporation in 1956, reflecting its increasing expansion into new products and markets. The company's diversified industrial services and products serve the steel, industrial gas, railway, construction and other major industries." I think I may have spotted the HS hi-pressure gas cylinder plant; it's the Taylor-Wharton plant @ 1001 Herr St & Rt. 230; Herr is the 4 lane going under tracks & Rt. 230 is the major N/S thruway-> http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.asp?S=10&T=1&X=1701&Y=22298&Z=18&W=2 Someone in the Harrisburg area want to go check/photo the plant? Possible tour for the next convention? Corporate hdqtrs is in Camp Hill. At the Harsco website, apparently a former op was the building of tank cars in the last half of the 1800's - how long did it last? --Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 19:20:12 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Subject: Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 2nd revision Hi Bob and List. I was looking up some things in the 1913 CT1000 then went to look in the 1923 CT 1000 C Central Reg.and they are not there. The Cresson Div does not show up at all in the 23 edt. but is in the 13 edt.The Bellwood Div. is also gone but I did not check to see what other divisions were gone. Do not have the date the Bellwood Div was merged in with the Cresson and later split between the Middle & Cresson Divs. Although the 13 edt seems to cover almost all things east of Pgh the 23 edt 1000 C does not. So does that mean that there was a territory change of divisions sometime after the 1913 edt and did this show up in the 1918 edt 1000 (C)? & PL 506 which the 1923 CT 1000 C superseds or new changes for the 1923 edt? Just some more confusion to unravel for the Standard Railroad of the World. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steven Bundick" Subject: Re: [PRR] Train #758 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:12:11 -0400 Gary- I found train #758 in the Eastern Division ETT #24, 9/27/1936. It looks like a commuter run as you mentioned. It left Beaver Falls at 3:45 PM and arrived Pittsburgh at 4:55 PM. Quite a few stops in between on the main line, and the Freedom stop was at 3:56 PM. The run was daily except Sunday. -Steve List, Now that the View Tail Car subject has been pretty much answered, I got another one. I have a photo of G5 # 5728 in Freedom, Pa. on 11-18-36. Photo data states this is train #758. I have no timetables of this time period. Does anyone? I presume this is most likely a commuer job (P-54 coach next to tender) making its daily run. Most importantly I would like to know its final destination. Did this train, #758, take the Bayard Bracnh to Stuebenville, Ohio or did it continue on the Ft Wayne Main towards Beaver Falls or points further west, ie: East Palestien, Ohio or north to Sharon, Pa, via the Kopple Secondary. Need the answer for modeling purposes....TIA, Gary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Train #758 Steve, Thanks a bunch! Now I finally have proof of a certain numbered G5 (5728) that made the Beaver Falls-Pittsburgh run. When my Dad was a young kid (mid-late 1930's) he used to hang around the G5's that laid over overnight in Beaver Falls for the next mornng run to Pittsburgh. He used to climb into the cabs (talked to the hostler) and run though the coaches. Try to do that these days. I am not sure if he ever got to ride in the cab up to the wye at Homewood Jct.(aprox 1 mile west) after the passengers departed. That is where they turned the train for the morning run. Then they would pull the train back down and set of on the sidings near the Beaver Falls Station. Thanks again Steve....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 03:20:44 EDT Subject: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show (a bit long) Hey Gize, I will now share with you what I shared with Jerry the other evening (his time). Stewart had two copies of the VO-1000 at the show, one of which was operating. Narrow hood, excellent detail and very quiet! Just what you wanted to hear. Due to be release in the fourth quarter of this year. I talked to Steve about more six axled ALCo's and he started to tell me about C-636's and I said, "Nah, I mean RSD-7's, RSD-15's [both high and low noses] and the U-25C. Well, he was rattling of the roads that had each and he said, "See we have done our research!" So will we see them, I can't see why not. He also had F-units with no dynamics, not Pennsy but still there is now another void filled. Life Like showed Ed and I both the new ERIE Built shells, A and B both. Very Nice Proto 1000 series and for about 60 bucks each, sold in sets. Put them on your Christmas list, but they admitted they may be a bit late. RDC-2's were there, one truck powered, full coach interior, but not Pennsy, so for my New Englander friends and WP and B&O friends great! Barry, think B&O in Pittsburgh, I have photo's. Also, they had there sample of the War Emergency composite gondola for the Proto 2000 series, again a beautiful piece. We can all use a couple as per diem cars. SD-60's very impressive but---ho hum to me! Life Like's USRA 0-8-0 makes me want to sell my kids, better yet Jerry's kids and buy a few. They are beautiful and I will do one for my W&LE/PRR interchange at Mingo Jct. Awesome dude! Atlas was there with their SD-35 in O Scale, and Bill I don't care what era you model you won't be able to resist this one. It is authentic! No, Way, No how on the SD-35 in HO Scale, Life Like has the chassis and they will not chance it. Some say different, but have to agree if they did it then what would stop Life Like from ripping the market open? Their DCC system shows real promise. From analog to digital with a flick of a switch ... great idea, now you have me thinking. Also the RS-11 was there, same tooling new frame and fuel tank, the tank did not impress me. Just to let you all know I handed off a set of plans and HO Scale drawings to a manufacturer who is more than willing to examine the R-50B and I think he will do the project, but it won't be done tomorrow, be patient. One thing I could use some help on is the appliance (airbrakes, steam lines) drawings it will speed things along. So if you can pass me a copy that I can hand off to him (he will need to keep them so no originals please) I would appreciate the help, the rest I have given him. Athearn had some modern boxcars of little interest to us PRR guys, but are representing a car that interest me as the company I work for just bought 50 of them recently. They had "production" F-units painted for several roads and they say that they will have them in the 4th quarter and I can justify that as I had a conversation with Paul Lubliner last night and he says his shells will ship for absolutely sure in mid September. He only needs some etched parts and then to hand package them. MID September remember that. Athearn wo uld not announce the USRA Pacific but it will ship in the 4th quarter. Also they are tooling a third steam locomotive. SD -whatevers were there too, big deal. Intermountain, no word yet on the Pullman troop sleeper, and ACF Kitchen car. Other than the PFE reefer nothing new. Red Caboose no new HO Tooling for this years. All their focus is in N Scale. They do have several hundred(s) of GP-9's but no underframes so buy the P&D drive train and add the Red Caboose shell. I am going to do another one in this way. Walthers, will release/announce the Sperry Rail Detector car for 4th quater delivery, as well as a Dynamometer Car (which I saw the test shot of, very nicely done), Budd Streamlined Post War Stainless steel passenger cars in the spring and summer of next year, very RR/Name Train specific, i.e., Chief, Daylight, ect. So the Florida Trains will be done but remember it is a five year project for them. How about #10 code 83 switches, yep their coming. Just a ton of new things from Walthers. I saw their new interlocking tower and shanty and I must saw although it doesn't say PRR on the box it is a reasonable stand in. Nice stuff. And of Course the Riveted version of the REAX reefer too. It's release was forced by the announcement of the Branchline REAX welded version of the express reefer. Which brings use to Branchline's Express reefer which the tooling came way ahead of schedule and they showed the test shot. Bill was on his way to Eugene to take a look at the tooling on the passenger cars after the show. I saw some nice stuff from City Classics, you guys in the East are lucky you get to see that stuff all the time we on the West Coast never seem too. I like the new Mobile home and the Company houses are on my list as are the old favorite like the Gas Station. Well, let me see what did forget? Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] GE Turbine Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:16:18 +1000 Fred Wrote:- > To the List: > On the September 2000 Railroad Model Craftsman's rear cover Overland > Models has an ad for a GE Turbine. The ad states: > "America's first railroad gas turbine-electric locomotive was built as a > joint venture by General Electric and Alco in 1948. This double-ended > locomotive was first released to testing in its green demonstrator colors. > It was in these colors that it was tested at GE's Erie, Pennsylvania plant > and on the (sic) both the Nickel Plate and Pennsylvania railroads. In 1949 > is (sic) was delivered to the Union Pacific...." > I don't remember reading anything about this or seeing any photos of it > on the PRR. > Does anyone know of any books with sections on this, any articles, any > photos, any Pennsy/GE/Alco reports, etc.? Thanks. > > --Fred Abendschein Having an interest in "Demonstrators" I have collected a little information on this Locomotive, as follows:- Builder - ALCo-GE Model - Gas Turbine Type - Locomotive, 4500hp B+B-B+B Gas Turbine Dual Cab. Number - 101 Built - 1948 Subsequent Owner - Leased by Union Pacific #50 Notes - Demonstrated on PRR and NKP before becoming UP #50. Unit was never owned by UP. Returned to GE 1952. Mechanically identical to UP #51-60. Photos - Century of GE Locomotive 1 p111, Illustrated History of GE p66, MR Cyclopedia 2 p157, Trains Jan 49 p4, Trains Nov 50 p36 Some of these photo's may be of the unit on PRR territory I am not sure. The one in the Cyclopedia is on NKP territory judging by the USRA 0-8-0 in the background. Note this was a joint ALCO - GE project not just GE. GE supplied the Electrical gear and Turbine and ALCO the carbody. Black Gold - Black Diamonds Volume II when it arrives will probably talk about this Locomotive. I hope this is of some use to you. Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 07:31:33 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Stewart VO Hi, Does anybody know which phase (2 or 3) had the curved fairings? Also, does naybody know which roads, besides PRR, are going to be available? Thanks. Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:45:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO From: Jerry Britton On 8/9/00 10:31 AM, Frank Bagrash (fbagrash@fullerton.edu) wrote: > Does anybody know which phase (2 or 3) had the curved fairings? Also, > does naybody know which roads, besides PRR, are going to be available? Is PRR livery going to be available? Or just an undecorate shell as is often the case? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:57:01 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show (a bit long) Well, Greg, Thanks for the coverage! My ears always perk up when I hear the word "Baldwin". I knew long ago when I bought a brass VO that they'd someday come out in plastic, and with that Buehler motor to power it I won't complain in the least. I understand the RS12 is hiding somewhere in the bushes nearby as well, and I'm standing by with one hand on my wallet just in case it pops out. And a big hats-off to Stewart for moving his loco production to the USA for all models. Bought three FT sets since that happened. So the word is good about the Athearn USRA pacific? Been hearing rumbles, and it did seem a natural, but now ya got me wondering about the "third" steamer. (USRA 0-6-0?) Things are shaping up, what with Branchline coming up with some extremely promising passenger stuff and lots more good stuff promised from Morning Sun...heck I better set aside some Christmas funds before the hobby shop gets all my cash. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:13:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO Liveries Available From: Jerry Britton On 8/9/00 10:45 AM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > On 8/9/00 10:31 AM, Frank Bagrash (fbagrash@fullerton.edu) wrote: > >> Does anybody know which phase (2 or 3) had the curved fairings? Also, >> does naybody know which roads, besides PRR, are going to be available? > > Is PRR livery going to be available? Or just an undecorate shell as is often > the case? Answering my own question, there will be two PRR road numbers plus a PRR livery with no road number. Excellent news! Though pricing has not yet been set, Merchandise Service is accepting advance reservations now that part numbers are assigned. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 11:21:58 EDT From: BPX29@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO Jerry and folks, The other day I was looking at the Stewart website and they listed Pennsy, B&O, and I think, UP,NP,and a few others. Looks good. No price listed that I can recall. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] PRR VO's Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:36:54 -0400 PRR Talk-listers: It is great that this engine will be coming out soon and that it will be of high quality. Did the PRR primarily assign this engine in the east? Does anyone on the list know of the typical locations where the PRR VO's were assigned? Ted Andrews (crossing my fingers in Lines West) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:38:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > On 8/9/00 10:31 AM, Frank Bagrash (fbagrash@fullerton.edu) wrote: > > > Does anybody know which phase (2 or 3) had the curved fairings? Also, > > does naybody know which roads, besides PRR, are going to be available? > > Is PRR livery going to be available? Or just an undecorate shell as is often > the case? What locomotive has Stewart done that's PRR-appropriate and was not at some point available painted (something resembling) correctly. Their web site claims 2 PRR numbers, and one PRR unnumbered. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:49:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO >From the horses mouth: Stock # 4700 will have the curved fairings on the battery box stock # 4702 will not have the curved fairings on the battery boxes and will also have the extra louvers on the side of body above the ngine access doors. All units will include options for a single exhaust, four short exhaust stacks and four tall exhaust stacks. Road names and numbers: 4700 undec with step guards 4702 undec without step guards 4704 PRR #5913 4705 PRR # 5919 4706 PRR no number 4707 SF #2214 Zebra stripe 4708 SF #2257 Zebra stripe 4709 SF no number 4710 B&O #417 4711 B&O #426 4712 B&O no number 4713 CB&Q #9353 4714 CB&Q #9365 4715 CB&Q no number 4716 NP #402 4717 NP #415 4718 NP no number 4719 UP #1200 4720 UP #1202 4721 UP no number 4722 Seaboard #`1402 4723 Seaboard # 1416 4724 Seaboard no number 4725 Frisco # 213 4726 Frisco #224 4727 Frisco no number Stewart will also be rereleasing their AS-616 with the truck mechanism from their Alco 628/630 with Commonwealth sideframes. The U-25b will also be coming back. ----------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR VO's Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:09:54 -0700 Ted, I distinctly remember seeing one (for a couple of days until it disappeared) in Detroit in the late 1950's-early 1960's. I still remember seeing that BIG fan behind the weird (at least to me at the time) grill! Bill Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrews, Ted To: 'PRR-Talk' Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 8:36 AM Subject: [PRR] PRR VO's > PRR Talk-listers: > > It is great that this engine will be coming out soon and that it will be of > high quality. > > Did the PRR primarily assign this engine in the east? Does anyone on the > list know of the typical locations where the PRR VO's were assigned? > > > Ted Andrews > (crossing my fingers in Lines West) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR VO's Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:51:19 -0700 >From what most of us have been told, the VO 1000's (am I wrong assuming this is what Stewart is giving us?) on PRR were primarily assigned to Phila and Chesapeake Regions (Camden, Wilmington, Philly), although it appears that at least one each were also assigned to Meadows and Northumberland. The books seem to indicate they spent their entire lives in the east. Unfortunate for us that don't model the east, but there are still other opportunities to run a VO. USSteel had some! B&O and others, too (for those with interchange). elden -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted [mailto:Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 8:37 AM To: 'PRR-Talk' Subject: [PRR] PRR VO's PRR Talk-listers: It is great that this engine will be coming out soon and that it will be of high quality. Did the PRR primarily assign this engine in the east? Does anyone on the list know of the typical locations where the PRR VO's were assigned? Ted Andrews (crossing my fingers in Lines West) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:21:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR VO's In a message dated 8/9/00 12:01:01 PM Central Daylight Time, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil writes: << Unfortunate for us that don't model the east, but there are still other opportunities to run a VO. USSteel had some! B&O and others, too (for those with interchange). >> Also, I remember them most in Chicago on CB&Q (how Baldwin ever got in the door at that bastion of EMD, I'll never know). But guess what? Like my ND caboose, I'll run a PRR VO anyway, whether it ever got West of Pittsburgh or not! Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:40:27 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO Jerry and ALL, Here are the roadnames for the first two releases: PRR, ATSF, B&O CB&Q---then NP, UP, SAL, StL&SF Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:45:51 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show (a bit long) Barry and All, I knew I forgot something(s). Yes the RS-12 and the AS-16 were both there with new frames. Then watch for the As616 is coming back with the Commonwealth trucks, so save those pennies... Barry write: <> Also C&BT Shops were there but no X-29 on display. I wonder what happened? Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:52:03 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR VO's Guys, TED writes: Did the PRR primarily assign this engine in the east? Does anyone on the list know of the typical locations where the PRR VO's were assigned? Typically LINES EAST Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 15:50:42 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: RE: [PRR] Unusual Steam in H'burg area (was Shays) >Howdy Evan: >Take a look at the Sunbury Fireless Locomotive @ >http://www.wsbcos.com/pplfireless.jpg >As you will see it looks just like a regular steam locomotive, the only >thing missing is the firebox, Nice picture Cos! And I LOVE the paint scheme! Does anyone have any stats on this beast or relatives? ie driver size, wheelbase etc? I'm starting to think "project time" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 21:08:12 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Subject: Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 2nd revision Hi Pat, Bob and List, The Cresson Division doesn't appear in the 1923 CT1000C because it was in the Eastern Region, not the Central. The Cresson Division appears on pages 198 to 209 of the 1923 CT1000. I assume it is in the 1923 CT1000E, also. The Bellwood Division was abolished in August 1918. The CR76 issues and the CT1000 editions before 1920 contained only Lines East information, and often only a portion of it. For example, the 1888 CR76 and the 1900 CT1000, that I've seen, contain only pages for the Pennsylvania Railroad General Division, i.e. the PRR proper. The 1923 CT1000 covered the entire System. There were many changes in the Division structure over the years, not just in the years new editions of the CT1000 were issued. A major effort is going on right now to put all this information together from PRR Employe Time-Tables. If PRR-Listers would like to participate in this effort, please send me OFF-LIST a listing of your PRR Employe Time-Tables with columns for the following information: Time-table Number, Date, Region, Grand Division, Division. I'll see that your data gets into the hands of the person putting it all together. For those not familiar with the Grand Division terminology, I'll give an example. At the top of the cover and title page of a PRR Employe Time-Table appear, for example: The Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, Eastern Pennsylvania Division, Philadelphia Division. In this example Eastern Pennsylvania is the Grand Division and Philadelphia, the Division. [And, for those who think I can't spell employe, that's how the Pennsy spelled it.] Along with the 1888 CR76 and 1900 CT1000, I have located a copy of the elusive 1918 CT1000, which started this whole string. It took effect October 1st, 1918, superseding issue of June 1st, 1915. So, Bob, you can remove the question mark between 1915 and 1918 in your list. Bob Johnson PKMac1@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Bob and List. I was looking up some things in the 1913 CT1000 then went to > look in the 1923 CT 1000 C Central Reg.and they are not there. The Cresson > Div does not show up at all in the 23 edt. but is in the 13 edt.The Bellwood > Div. is also gone but I did not check to see what other divisions were gone. > Do not have the date the Bellwood Div was merged in with the Cresson and > later split between the Middle & Cresson Divs. Although the 13 edt seems to > cover almost all things east of Pgh the 23 edt 1000 C does not. So does that > mean that there was a territory change of divisions sometime after the 1913 > edt and did this show up in the 1918 edt 1000 (C)? & PL 506 which the 1923 CT > 1000 C superseds or new changes for the 1923 edt? > Just some more confusion to unravel for the Standard Railroad of the World. > > Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:12:24 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR VO's Bob and all, Good call Bob, a great engine like this comes along so seldom you got to get one. The drive as I remimber is by Ajinn, famous for brass. Now you guys who haven't done it yet get yea to Withers Publications and buy their soft cover Pennsy books. The photos are excellent, great text and rosters. Please read "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volumne 2 - Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers" by John D. Hahn, Jr. "The Philadelphia Terminal and New York Divions were the first locations to be assigned VO-1000s". The associated roster shows #9005, #9006, #9019, #9021, #9028, #9031, #9032, #9047, assigned to the Pittsburgh Region, #9007, #9008, #9022-9027, #9044-9046 to the Lake Region, #9009, #9010, #9020, #9029-9030 to the Buckeye Region, #9231 & #9032(8/57) to the Northwest Region, #9032 to the Southwest Region (9/60). Maybe something for everybody. Get the book! Ed Martin..."a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:00:49 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: [PRR] Withers softbound PRR books Greetings to Ed, Bob and the list: Thanks for the nice plug on Withers PRR diesel books. Thought diesel-heads might like to know that the next one in the series will be going to the printer's in a few weeks. Topic: All PRR FMs (H10-44, H12-44, H16-44, H20-44, Erie-builts, C-Liners). Lots of photos from the PRR's FM strongholds, namely the 3-Cs (Columbus, Cincinnati, Cresson). Dan Cupper ELM2@aol.com wrote: > Bob and all, > > Good call Bob, a great engine like this comes along so seldom you got to get > one. The drive as I remimber is by Ajinn, famous for brass. > > Now you guys who haven't done it yet get yea to Withers Publications and buy > their soft cover Pennsy books. The photos are excellent, great text and > rosters. > > Please read "Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volumne 2 - > Baldwin Switchers and Road Switchers" by John D. Hahn, Jr. "The Philadelphia > Terminal and New York Divions were the first locations to be assigned > VO-1000s". The associated roster shows #9005, #9006, #9019, #9021, #9028, > #9031, #9032, #9047, assigned to the Pittsburgh Region, #9007, #9008, > #9022-9027, #9044-9046 to the Lake Region, #9009, #9010, #9020, #9029-9030 to > the Buckeye Region, #9231 & #9032(8/57) to the Northwest Region, #9032 to > the Southwest Region (9/60). Maybe something for everybody. > > Get the book! > > Ed Martin..."a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] N6b Cabin Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:55:56 -0700 I am trying to scratch build a N6b Cabin in O scale and would like some info on the underframe. Can anyone point me to a source of this information. Unfortunately, I live on the left coast and find it hard to get to Pennsy country to examine a preserved article. I have searched for an erection drawing on the underframe to allow me to build the bolster and cross bearers. Even details like the AB brakes are hard to see in the published drawings and photos. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:07:28 -0400 From: jpbtrans Subject: [PRR] Peoria List, I've been told that the PRR ran on NKP tracks into East Peoria and then diverged from their tracks around Washington St. My questions are, if the PRR was already on the NKP, why didn't they use the NKP yard? Did they "need to switch" to the P+PU for terminal switching around town that couldn't be done by the NKP? Did PRR have "any" facilities that were their own in town? engine house? fuel? Thank-you for your help, Jon Anderson jpbtrans@gateway.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:46:18 EDT Subject: [PRR] More on the VO-1000 I was talking with Steve Stewart this evening and he mentioned that stock # 4700 thru 4715 should be shipped out by Nov 10, 2000 and stock # 4716- 4727 should be shipped by Nov 30, 2000 -------------------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 08/10/00 From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:46:02 -0500 Subject: Withers softbound PRR books From: "Dan Cupper" Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:00:49 -0400 Greetings to Ed, Bob and the list: Thanks for the nice plug on Withers PRR diesel books. Thought diesel-heads might like to know that the next one in the series will be going to the printer's in a few weeks. Topic: All PRR FMs (H10-44, H12-44, H16-44, H20-44, Erie-builts, C-Liners). Lots of photos from the PRR's FM strongholds, namely the 3-Cs (Columbus, Cincinnati, Cresson). Dan Cupper Thanks for the information Dan. Such a great book for a reasonable price. Randy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bud Kaiser" Subject: Re: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:58:03 -0400 To All, I had a chance to talk with Dick Schweiger of C&BT Shops at the Train show and asked him about the X29 car. As many of you may know, Dick has some serious health problems that have somewhat limited his time and energy on his projects. Nevertheless, he is pushing to get the car out in time for the Chicago show which is around Halloween. He has decided to not mold the ladders on the car , and instead, use Red Caboose add-ons. He will most likely include a template for drilling the car sides and ends. The body is complete but he is having trouble with the underframe and is having it redone. I believe that he will have two paint schemes for the car, one Merchandise service. I'm not sure if he will have different numbers. Branchline has no real schedule on the resumption of production of the 40' box cars - only sometime after the crush of getting the heavyweights on the market. They will have to evaluate how to re-do the patterns to produce the correct car length. This will cost them a bundle to redo the tooling, and they should be applauded for their decision to stop production and fix the car length problem. For those who don't know, the car is about 8" too long. I don't know about you, but they sure do look great to me as is. Bud Kaiser ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show (a bit long) > Also C&BT Shops were there but no X-29 on display. I wonder what happened? > > Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:40:16 EDT From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] The SAN JOSE MRIA Hobby Show Guys, This is good new I just had an off-line chat with Ben Hom(who I had the opportunity to meet in San Jose, great guy) and we were hoping that the ladders and such were going to be a modeler add on. Bud Writes: <> This doesn't surprise me as the B and the D had different underframes. Yes, it would require seperate tooling. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Partial bibliography of CT1000's, 3rd revision Year issued: 1945 See note 2 1923 1918 See note 1 1915 1913 1911 ? Changed from yearly to every-other-year sometime in here 1901 1900 CT1000 in and after 1900, for sure 1899 CT1000 in 1899, maybe ? 1895 CR76 in and before 1895 ? 1891 ? 1888 1887 ? 1882 ? 1879 The earliest known, form number not known with certainty. 1) Bob Johnson found a 1918 CT1000 and reports that it says it supercedes the 1915 edition. So, there was no CT1000 issued in 1916 nor '17. 2) The 1945 book lives up to its title, "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions for Making Reports to the Superintendent Car Service" and that's it. Earlier editions include other useful data such as Location and Capacity of Track Scales, Location and Capacity of Wagon Scales, Location and Capacity of Cranes. The very early ones contain lists of car types, car numbers assigned to various components of the railroad, lists of reporting marks; and give the names of station agents and weighmasters. Remember that monumental 66-word title Bob Johnson reported? LIRR fans should note that the CR4 books are titled "List of Stations and Sidings with Instructions for Making Reports to the Car Record Office and Other Information". Comments: There is that odd fact (fack?) that someone said he has a "...1915 CT1000D for the Northern Division...". Somehow "D" and "Northern" don't seem to fit well ("d" as in "nordic"?). I wonder; was that Northern Division an ordinary division, or a grand division? Either way, I wonder what other "subsets" there were. CT1000A, B, C, D, E, F, etc? Anybody have insight on that? Request(s): If you have information which would fill in the gaps, please get in touch. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] New PRR Book List, Hello, just got an email from Eric Hirsamaki, the authour of Black Gold/Black Diamonds, The PRR and Dieselization. Vol. 1. It looks like Vol.2 will be out in October. He just recieved his last photo for inclusion in the book. The T1 in Roanoke, during testing on the N&W! Reserve one from Eirc? or your favorite dealer when you can. Eric's books are great. Can't wait to see it. I believe a Vol. 3 is planned as well.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:04:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New PRR Book From: Jerry Britton On 8/11/00 9:48 AM, Gary Mittner (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > Hello, just got an email from Eric Hirsamaki, the authour of Black > Gold/Black Diamonds, The PRR and Dieselization. Vol. 1. It looks like > Vol.2 will be out in October. He just recieved his last photo for > inclusion in the book. The T1 in Roanoke, during testing on the N&W! > Reserve one from Eirc? or your favorite dealer when you can. Eric's > books are great. Can't wait to see it. I believe a Vol. 3 is planned as > well.....Gary > Yes, this was announced about a month ago on "PRR-Talk". Also, there is an ad in the new issue of either Model Railroader or Classic Trains, I forget which, with a pre-publication offer. Slated to ship on Oct. 15. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:30:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2000 From: Jerry Britton Many have wondered if RailFest 2000 was still on...given that the web site for the event is no longer online (www.railroadcity.com) and the events recording at the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum makes no mention of it. Thanks to training by Greg Martin, I used this new device called the telephone to try to delve more into the situation. I spoke with a person, yes, a real, live, breathing person, and here's the scoop: RaiLFest 2000 is indeed still on...first weekend of October. Their web site is having problems, which are being resolved, and explains why there is no information there. Mailers just went out, so those who requested will receive them soon. As soon as I get mine, I'll scan and post it. In addition to the usual excursions and open house at the Altoona Shops, the Hollidaysburg Shops will ONCE AGAIN BE OPEN! I believe last year was the first time this happened and it was thought that perhaps NS would decrease its participation in RailFest. Apparently not so! Stay tuned... --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:40:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Looking for Bill Volkmer List. Can any one give me an e-mail address for Bill Volkmer? Still looking for a picture or if someone can tell me about the tower sign for McKINLEY at Canton Ohio. Need a good description of it for a project that is at the point where I need some specifics. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Wreck Train Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:50:20 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C00392.B526C7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am mentally "building" a short wreck train to go near my future = roundhouse. At this time I have a Tichy 120 ton crane w/ boom car. I = figure that a Roundhouse "Pennsy" style tender (w/ Lines West bunker = modification)and a cabin car would be appropriate, along with the = obligitory flat. As I am modeling the early 50's (probably in Pgh area), would an ND or = NC cabin work in this situation, or should I use an N6b? Should the cars = all be yellow (exception being the crane and tender) or stay with = standard freight car colors? As always, feedback is appreciated. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C00392.B526C7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am mentally "building" a short wreck train to go = near my=20 future roundhouse. At this time I have a Tichy 120 ton crane w/ boom = car. =20 I figure that a Roundhouse "Pennsy" style tender (w/ Lines West bunker=20 modification)and a cabin car would be appropriate, along with the = obligitory=20 flat.

As I am modeling the early 50's (probably in Pgh = area), would=20 an ND or NC cabin work in this situation, or should I use an N6b? Should = the=20 cars all be yellow (exception being the crane and tender) or stay with = standard=20 freight car colors? As always, feedback is appreciated.

Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C00392.B526C7A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:59:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Wreck Train From: Jerry Britton On 8/11/00 3:50 PM, Walt Prusick (walpru@stargate.net) wrote: > I am mentally "building" a short wreck train to go near my future roundhouse. > At this time I have a Tichy 120 ton crane w/ boom car. I figure that a > Roundhouse "Pennsy" style tender (w/ Lines West bunker modification)and a > cabin car would be appropriate, along with the obligitory flat. > > As I am modeling the early 50's (probably in Pgh area), would an ND or NC > cabin work in this situation, or should I use an N6b? Should the cars all be > yellow (exception being the crane and tender) or stay with standard freight > car colors? As always, feedback is appreciated. > It won't answer all questions, but... At the 2000 Annual Convention of the PRRT&HS, Al Buchan gave an excellent talk on MoW equipment and, specifically, wreck trains. He provided a handout with very specific recommendations for modeling and included the exact consist of a couple of wreck trains. This handout was converted to PDF format and is available, with permission of Al, at "Keystone Crossings", under the modeling section, under modeling non-revenue equipment... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/ --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Wreck Train Walt, My current wreck/work train contains the Tichey Wrecker, a Railworks GRa gon for the boom car, the 8 XL Work Cars from Westerfield and an N6b Cabin from Gloor Craft. The work cars are painted Yellow, the Cabin remains in Freight Car Color/old lettering, The Wrecker is Black and the GRa Gondola is still in the early no logo scheme lettering and Freight Car Color. I plan to add a Tender to the train in the future. My choice of tender will probably be the new I1sa 90F82 Tender from Trainstuff. This will remain in standard colors as well. I know the long haul tenders when used in MOW were painted yellow. I don't recall seeing a photo of a short tender in yellow. Did they exsist that way? I still have not decided if I want MOW ex-Passenger Cars on my work train yet. You are modeling the era in whch the color switch from Gray to Yellow happened. You can have both colored cars for your train if you desire. Getting back to the 90F82 tender from Trainstuff. There is also another use for this item. Place the body shell casting on a flat car and model the car used for Fire Fighting service. A Tool Shed is built on the oppisite end. There is a photo of that car in one of Wayners books. I may plan on doing this car too.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:22:45 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Wreck Train Walt, we had a discussion of this a few months back so you might want to double check the archives, but here is my take on the subject: > I am mentally "building" a short wreck train to go near my future >roundhouse. At this time I have a Tichy 120 ton crane w/ boom car. I >figure that a Roundhouse "Pennsy" style tender (w/ Lines West bunker >modification)and a cabin car would be appropriate, along with the >obligitory flat. Ditch the Tichy boom car - it is not a prr prototype. Substitute Sunshine's FM flat in MOW (included decals for "idler car for derrick #..."). The tender should be OK, although the "lines west bunker" probably is not necessary. Other cars to add are Westerfield's XL tool car, XL cable car, XL riding/locker car, XL commissary car. If you only pick one of these, go for the cable or tool car, implying that the "passenger" carrying cars are parked elsewhere. >As I am modeling the early 50's (probably in Pgh area), would an ND or NC >cabin work in this situation, or should I use an N6b? Should the cars all >be yellow (exception being the crane and tender) or stay with standard >freight car colors? As always, feedback is appreciated. My vote would be the N6b, although I'll leave the "official word" to Tom V. As for paint, the cars should be grey, with black roofs adn running gear up until 1953, and were slowly repainted yellow afterwards (so a mix of yellow and grey is appropriate for the mid to late '50s. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:00:40 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Stewart VO's/fireless cookers Hi, All of this talk about the upcoming Stewart VO in HO scale has really gotten me excited. I've been following the progress of the project since its arrival was first surmised about a few years back. Ken McCory was kind enough to post the stock numbers and Greg Martin broke the list down into 1st run/2nd run categories. There will be one undec in each sheetwork style. But, which style did the PRR have? All of my books are still "enbox" and I could use the information to put together a correct order. Thanks! With regard to the "fireless cooker" thread: did anybody answer the question of whether the PRR hisself had any lettered for the PRR? Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:24:27 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO's/fireless cookers PRR had both types. I checked Pennsy Power II the other night and they are both there. Personaly the one with the curved sheet metal looks very dated and is uglier to me but to each their own. They were a very minor class on the PRR. I think there were 12 all together with the major class being the S12 with over 60 as I recall. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:04:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Stewart VO's/fireless cookers NDBPRR & all, The early Pennsy VO-1000s with the curved walkway skirting were #5913-#5918 (six units in all). #5919 & 5920 came without the curved walkway skirting and had the four stack exhaust system that Baldwin began using in mid 1945. So says the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE PICTORIAL VOLUMNE 2 - BALDWIN SWITCHERS AND ROAD SWITCHERS by Jack D. Hahn, Jr. available from Withers Publishing. Ed Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] New pics on Website Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:20:09 +0100 To 'celebrate' the forthcoming Stewart Baldwin switcher some more pics have been uploaded: http://home.freeuk.net/prr_pics/contents.htm Baldwin switchers, EMD switchers and a lone Lima LS25. All the info was from Pennsy Power II, hope it's correct. That renumbering scheme had my brain cells in a twist. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 17:49:35 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Hello list, Page 112 of PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger equipment has a picture of a former 90F82 in MofW yellow. The number of the water car (tender) is 492457. Like Gary, I also recall seeing a shot of a former long distance tender in MofW yellow, but I can't recall where. I model 1948-52. Would a former tender that served as a water car be painted gray in this era? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 19:25:38 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow In a message dated 8/11/00 5:35:35 PM Central Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << Like Gary, I also recall seeing a shot of a former long distance tender in MofW yellow, but I can't recall where. >> Pennsy Diesel Years, Vol. 5, has two at Waverly on page 33 and at least one at Meadows on page 35, all in February, 1962. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] GE Gas Electric Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:45:35 -0700 What happened to the remaining PRR Gas Electric that was preserved in New Jersey? I thought that it was at the Black River & Western. Could not find it on their website. THanks, Gene ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] Testing...testing Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:25:51 -0700 Testing newer spam filter. Pardon my use of the BW Gene ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:40:55 -0400 If you want the 'skinny' on wreck trains follow Jerry's advice and check out his web site to review my dissertation on the subject. All cars were gray until 1953 when they gradually started to be repainted in yellow, derricks were black. Freight car color went out ca. 1940 so in all likelihood would be inappropriate in a 1950s and beyond wreck train. Use of ALL the Westerfield cars in a wreck train is incorrect, only the tool, cable, commissary and riding/locker car is correct. All is not lost however, as the other Westerfield cars would be found on camp trains used by MW gangs not wreck trains. I had always hoped Al would have packaged them in two sets - Camp Train and Wreck Train. Class NC and NE cabins were either converted to N6b or gone by ca. 1927. One or two ND cabins may have remained on, I don't remember but Bob Johnson would. However, I would use a class N6B in freight car color as it was more common. Incidentally although Rail Classics calls their gondola a class GRA it is actually a class GR. The Tichey crane is excellent and should be used with a class FM idler (Sunshine) or a class GR idler (Rail Classics), the Tichey boom car is not correct. Also the large long haul tenders were not used in wreck train service, in the 1950s the tenders (water service) would be gray, later yellow. Check out the photos in Morningsun's PRR Color Guides 1 and 2. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gene Deimling" Subject: [PRR] BEL_DEL Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 18:23:08 -0700 Can anyone give me a quick review of the book called "Down Along the Old Bel-Del"? what is quality of the photos? Maps? accuracy? etc. Thanks. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 08:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Heisler 0-4-0 Fireless Loco Some specs. on the 0-4-0 at Strasburg. Built-1940 Cylinders-19" x 17" Drive wheel dia.- 31" Weight- 70,000 lbs. Capacity, water-420 cubic Ft. ( I assume steam ? ) Pull capacity- 11,000 lbs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:47:10 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Al and List, The number of ND cabins remaining in freight service depends very much on what date is being considered. Following are some dates and ND quantities: 1-1-48 311 1-1-50 225 1-1-52 108 1-1-54 39 1-1-56 10 1-1-58 3 Al, you recommend using an N6B in freight car color on a wreck train. Would this usually have been a "permanent" assignment? That is, would the cabin car have normally been kept in the consist of the wreck train while in the yard or would the wreck train crew just have grabbed the nearest cabin car when called out? The reason I ask is the new book "Lewistown and the Pennsylvania Railroad" has a section on the Lewistown wreck train of 1956-7 - eight cars and no cabin car. Was this unusual? Also, since there were at least a few cabin cars painted gray or yellow and renumbered into the non-revenue series, what were the usual assignments of these cars? Bob Johnson Al Buchan wrote: > Class NC and NE cabins were either converted to N6b or gone by ca. 1927. One > or two ND cabins may have remained on, I don't remember but Bob Johnson > would. However, I would use a class N6B in freight car color as it was more > common. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:38:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains > Al Buchan wrote: > > > Class NC and NE cabins were either converted to N6b or gone by ca. 1927. One > > or two ND cabins may have remained on, I don't remember but Bob Johnson > > would. However, I would use a class N6B in freight car color as it was more > > common. A number of times i have heard of grey mow cabins. how many and what classes received that treatment? would the N4 have been grey? happy rails typing one handed, so no caps - the baby is asleep on the other bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:46:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, doug.kisala wrote: > Page 112 of PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger equipment has a ^^^ p 120 > picture of a former 90F82 in MofW yellow. The number of the water car > (tender) is 492457. Like Gary, I also recall seeing a shot of a former > long distance tender in MofW yellow, but I can't recall where. > > I model 1948-52. Would a former tender that served as a water car be > painted gray in this era? Yes, grey with black underbody, coal space and grabs/handrails. see p122 of prr color guide for a grey 90f75 (ex L1) tender (499682?) happy rails bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:49:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Sorry, forgot to add the following question...when would cabins be usedinmow service? would a cabin (mow or regular service) be required for a wreck train to be a "train"...ie to be out on the main somewhere? happy rails bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 15:11:47 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: [PRR] Vandalia Cabin Cars Hey Guys, Does anybody on the list have drawings or photos of Vandalia Cabin cars? These seem to be near impossible to find. Any help would be appreciated. I would imagine some of the NC cabin cars would end up on the western division(Vandalia). I do know N6A's and B's were all over the place at one time. Steve Long ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:56:48 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Johnson [mailto:rjohnson@capslock.net] Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 2:47 PM To: Al Buchan Cc: PRR-Talk Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Bob and list, All good questions. I am familiar with the Lewistown book wreck train portrayal as I helped Chuck write the text and most of the captions. No it is not unusual for a wreck train to not have an assigned cabin. Some places had assigned cabins for wreck trains to preclude the wreck crew from fishing one out of the yard, others didn't. I wish I could say which did and which didn't, but I can't. These cabins were for the train crew that went with the wreck train not for any of the wreck crew. Some locations where a lot of work trains originated, such as PHL (Mantua Yard), also had dedicated cabins for work trains. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:21:06 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: [PRR] CT1000's, CR76's and 76CR's Bob and List, A photocopy of the 1879 issue has been located. It is not a CR76. Clearly printed at the top of the title page is Form 76.-C.R. In an earlier post I mentioned that someone had written 76CR on a copy of a page of the 1882 issue. I had thought they just got it wrong, but now it seems that was the designation of early issues. The title is also different for the 1879 issue: "Instructions to Conductors Relating to Car Record Reports. Abbreviations to Be Used in Reporting Cars, and Names and Numbers of Stations and Sidings, to Take Effect August 1st, 1879. Also, Numbers and Classification of Cars, as Ordered July 1st, 1879." The title page doesn't mention any earlier issues. However, on page 25, the beginning of the section "Names and Numbers of Stations and Sidings To take effect August 1st, 1879" shows "Superseding List dated April 1st, 1878". So, Bob, the following changes are possible for your bibliography: 1887 - Add note "CR76 in and after 1887" 1882 - Add note "76CR in and before 1882" 1879 - Delete current note and add "76CR in and after 1879" 1878 - Add this year and note "Form number not known" This is getting interesting. I wonder how many more of these forms we can find? Bob Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:27:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Ok, all this talk about wreck trains has my blood flowing again! Some great information passing here, but I have a stumbling block. Perhaps someone can help. I'm monitoring the conversation about tenders and what color they should be, but since I model in the sixties, I tend to be very ignorant about tenders and their associated classes. Is there a plastic tender out there somewhere that will pass for a PRR tender that could be used in a wreck train? If so, who makes it? If there is not and I have to go brass, how does one find just the tender of a brass model tender? Any help is appreciated! This has always been my big stumbling block. Since Big Al is a friend of mine and lives close enough to stop by and ensure accuracy, I've got to get this one right! Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:38:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] No Joke, No Dream From: Jerry Britton Well folks, following my report (on "PRR-ER") of dreaming of switching to N scale, I was approached by two N scalers who said, "Why not?" So, I am actually giving them some say and heading their words. No, I'm not saying I'm switching, I'm saying I'm giving it "sincere consideration". HO scalers might salivate at the possibility, given my locomotive collection. An incredible N scale layout has been devised, with a lower level beginning in Steelton and including the Harrisburg passenger station from Paxton Street through State Street (all of the freight, rea) in EXACT scale with absolutely nothing left out! It then includes the complete loco terminal with only slight modifications. The next level starts with the Rockville Bridge and then cruises through several scenes of the Middle Division...namely BANKS, probably VIEW, then a small station...perhaps MIFFLIN, LEWIS, or HUNT. Finally, South Altoona, where helpers would tag on. A top level would climb past the Brickyard and Kittanning Point, through Horseshoe Curve, up past MG, the Allegripus, and into Tunnel Hill. On the other side, flatten out and pass MO and the Cresson engine facility. A helix then drops all the way back down below the first level to staging. It all fits, and these "four" levels are all possible because of the decreased space N scale requires between levels. I am meeting with an N scaler this Thursday to get "hands on" to see if I can actually work with the track, decals, etc. DCC decoder installation will also be considered, as DCC is a must! Meanwhile, I am doing a study of what is/isn't available in N scale. I know my loco collection will suffer, but more is available than I originally thought. Also, more 1948 passenger cars are available than I had thought, plus Laser Horizons indicates they can make more. Heavyweight and head-end equipment -- especially B60's -- are sorely lacking. X-29's are a plenty, but much other rolling stock needs to be found. Prospects for sound are not good at the moment. I was planning to use Soundtraxx heavily. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Mark, Like I mentioned in my earlier post I will be using an ex-90F82 from an I1. No plastic model of this yet exsist but a new resin one is about to be. Dayna, can you please post an update on your project? Yes, you could go brass and one should be able to be found with time. Low side Tenders may have been used too. Besides the color painting guide books from morning sun, is there other published photos of wreck tenders? I don't have that book....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 08:59:54 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C005CE.03479A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The tender possibility I am working on is a low-side (ala = RoundHouse/Bowser) with a built up coal bunker, Lines West variation. = See Pennsy Power II pages 27 thru 31. As memory serves, a kit was = available for this modification. Anyone seen it lately and if so, who = makes it? BTY probably paint mine black as it was just removed from an = H9. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C005CE.03479A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The tender possibility I am working on is a low-side = (ala=20 RoundHouse/Bowser) with a built up coal bunker, Lines West variation. = See Pennsy=20 Power II pages 27 thru 31. As memory serves, a kit was available = for this=20 modification. Anyone seen it lately and if so, who makes it? BTY = probably paint=20 mine black as it was just removed from an H9.

Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C005CE.03479A80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:08:26 -0400 From: Jason Jaquith Subject: [PRR] The Pennsy & beer A few years back when I started to go to school here in Erie,(PA) I was delighted to discover there was a brew pub in Erie's Union Station. The pub was set up in the main lobby of the station, and they had a some great beers on tap, as well as a special brew that would change from time to time. On certain days, they even had track-side seating up on the platform were you could sit and watch trains on Conrail's ex-NYC main fly by, although I never got a chance to use this. Now, Union Station here in Erie served both the NYC and PRR, with the Nickle Plate having it's own station several blocks away. As the pub was set up in the main lobby, the train board was still in place, and it was still functioning, with back lighting behind the glass. The train board had listings for both the NYC, and two PRR divisions, The Renovo Division, (part of the P&E branch), and the Erie & Pittsburgh. As the board was still serviceable, the pub would sometimes have specials marked up on it in grease pencil, just like it was intended to be used. Unfortunately for a beer drinking SPF, the brewers closed down the brew pub a few years ago to concentrate on brewing alone, an operation that the moved elsewhere in the city. Although I can still get their beer at some of my other watering holes here in the area, I miss walking into the pub and checking out what would be marked up on the PRR's board that day. Jason ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Walt, Bowser makes that Lines West Coal Bunker extension. Part #? ....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Walt, I am trying to find that part number for the coal bunker. I am looking in a Bowser catalog (12th edition) but can't come up with it. I know they make it, I seen it listed somewhere. I have one but I purchased mine when LeeTown sold them. It is a 4 piece kit you glue together and add the railing on top. Hey Doug K, pull out your newest Bowser reference catalog when you get home if this part number hasn't been found......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:18:52 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Every picture I have seen of these engines shows them operating as single units. Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash up? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:31:38 -0400 (EDT) From: chaslett@cse.l-3com.com Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2000 Hello to all, Just confirming Jerry's info on the Railfest, as I just received an announcement about it from the Museum this past weekend. As it was last year, Railfest tours will include the "Samuel Rea" carshops at Hollidaysburg, and I believe I saw 7 total Horseshoe Curve excursion times listed. Note that there is also a Tri-Regional NMRA convention that weekend in Altoona, "the Juniata Junction", so hotel space will be even more difficult than usual to secure, especially at the last minute. The NMRA is using the same hotel that the PRRT&HS used last August and two or three others on down Pleasant Valley Blvd. I will again volunteer to greet and meet PRR-Talk listers at 9AM Saturday next to the Museum, with detailed Altoona street maps that have over 30 PRR-Related Sites or photo locations marked on them. I will also be involved with the NMRA activities all weekend, so contact me OFF-LIST if you'd like info on that convention. -Carl Haslett chaslett@cse.L-3Com.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:26:01 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] No Joke, No Dream Jerry wrote: >So, I am actually giving them some say and heading their words. No, I'm not >saying I'm switching, I'm saying I'm giving it "sincere consideration". HO >scalers might salivate at the possibility, given my locomotive collection. > >An incredible N scale layout has been devised, So, where's the URL? >Meanwhile, I am doing a study of what is/isn't available in N scale. I know >my loco collection will suffer, but more is available than I originally >thought. Also, more 1948 passenger cars are available than I had thought, >plus Laser Horizons indicates they can make more. Electric locos are a bust except for the GG-1. I am not sure if any of the "boxcab" or the P-5a modifieds are available in brass, but I'm pretty sure that they aren't. Steam is a bust, except for the GHQ L-1s conversion of the Kato mike. Forget the minitrix(?) I-1 & K-4...they aren't particularly accurate, and are way out of production as I recall. You will do better in brass here, including your PRRT&HS "numbersake" the T-1 (just released). I had seriously considered the "switch" to N but the lack of available motive power that I am interested in squashed those thoughts PDQ! >Prospects for sound are not good at the moment. I was planning to use >Soundtraxx heavily. Huh? Soundtraxx makes n-scale decoders, and, lets face it, you're going to be forced to be mostly diesel anyway...so MUed diesels with one a hollowed out dummy for sound would work fine...as for steam, the decoders will fit in a 210F75 or a 210F82... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 10:45:01 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Mark wrote: >I'm monitoring the conversation about tenders and what color they should be, >but since I model in the sixties, I tend to be very ignorant about tenders >and their associated classes. Is there a plastic tender out there somewhere >that will pass for a PRR tender that could be used in a wreck train? 90F75 - Bowser - This is the "high side" tender sold with the L-1s. It isn't a great model (but then, what Bowser tender is?). An example is seen on page 122 of the PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, Volume 1, Sweetland & Yanosey. For an article on super-detailing this tender, see Kris K's recent publication in Mainline Modeler (I think...) 90F82 - Trainstuff LLC (http://www.trainstuffllc.com/public_html/webspecial.htm). This tender was originally used on the I-1 and can be recognized by the vertical sides and a vertical slope sheet. The model hasn't been released yet, but it sure looks to be coming soon, based on the web photos . As mentioned earlier, and example of this tender in MOW service is seen on page 120 of the PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment, Volume 1, Sweetland & Yanosey. You will note that some modification of the tender will be in order as the coal bunker appears to be covered over with sheet metal, providing either an oil bunker, extra water capacity or an enclosed tool space... 70F70 - Roundhouse/MDC This tender is the "low sided" tender seen behind the E-6 and is the reccommended substitution for the Bowser tender sold with their E-6. These may be hard to obtain as Jerry has had one on order for me for a year or so...Additionally, photographic evidence for this tender in MOW service is (IMHO) rare. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck (Work) Trains Al, Do you have the PRRT&HS publications authored by Ken Kobus that was put out a few years ago? If so look in volume 2. Page 7 and 8 show a wrecker in Pittsburgh during track relaying. These short work trains do not have a Tender for their coal supply. There is a flatcar next to the wrecker. There is a bin built on the end of the flat. Is this the coal supply or tool shed? Or is the wrecker actually oil burning at this time, early 1950's? ....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:11:42 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's I don't know specifically about the PRR units, but the NH 44 tonners (toners is what you put in your laser printer ;-)) were run in pairs in Boston. So it was done. See the John Pryke cover article in this month's Model RRer. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > Every picture I have seen of these engines shows them operating as single units. Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash up? Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:28:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck (Work) Trains In a message dated 8/14/00 11:07:32 AM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << These short work trains do not have a Tender for their coal supply. There is a flatcar next to the wrecker. There is a bin built on the end of the flat. Is this the coal supply or tool shed? Or is the wrecker actually oil burning at this time, early 1950's? ....Gary >> Pennsy Steam Years, Vol. 1, says that all but one were oil-burning. The 250-ton ones, at least, were always oil-burning, delivered 1940-49. Don't know about the others. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:31:02 -0400 In one of the PRRT&HS books on the Pittsburgh area, there is a photo of two SD-9s working as hump engines at Conway yard. Still, nearly all photos that I have seen of PRR SD-9s were solitary. Ted -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 10:19 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Every picture I have seen of these engines shows them operating as single units. Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash up? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:33:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's In a message dated 8/14/00 10:28:17 AM Central Daylight Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash up? >> Somewhere I have seen a list of PRR diesels with details as to MU capabilities, antennas, etc. Jerry, is that on Keystone Crossings somewhere or does someone else have the reference, hard-copy or URL? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:53:05 -0700 I was also curious about the SD9 question and did some research some time ago. I have never found a photo of an SD 7 or 9 in an active lash-up. There are some photos of them sitting together with other units shut down. The SD7s were used paired or singly on Madison Hill or on locals. The SD9s were used primarily in hump/yard service around Conway. PRR never regarded their first gen six-axle units as anything other than secondary service, so they never went on the mainline in that kind of action. Curiously enough, neither did they view the GP7s, and they were also never seen in mainline lash-ups. It seems that once PC came along, all bets were off, and you could even see RSD-5s in lash-ups. Ouch. That's what comes from selling off all your old power in anticipation of new management. -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 8:19 AM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Every picture I have seen of these engines shows them operating as single units. Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash up? Thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:16:33 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C005F1.DDCF9540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable According to PennsyPowerII, SD9 is class ES17m, with m signifying = multiple-unit control equipment. Now whether they ran in tandem is best = left to abler minds (and resources) than mine. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C005F1.DDCF9540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to PennsyPowerII, SD9 is class ES17m, with = m=20 signifying multiple-unit control equipment. Now whether they ran in = tandem is=20 best left to abler minds (and resources) than mine.

Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C005F1.DDCF9540-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:44:02 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Walt, Gary, list, Bowser's part number for the Lines West Coal bunker is 150622. The low sided tender, 150620, that it goes on top of is discontinued, but the bunker is still available. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Walt, > > I am trying to find that part number for the coal bunker. I am > looking in a Bowser catalog (12th edition) but can't come up with it. I > know they make it, I seen it listed somewhere. I have one but I > purchased mine when LeeTown sold them. It is a 4 piece kit you glue > together and add the railing on top. Hey Doug K, pull out your newest > Bowser reference catalog when you get home if this part number hasn't > been found......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:26:12 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C005F3.36F82DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Going thru Pennsy II (to answer a post), found a pic of an L1s pulling a = "wreck train". Line up is L1s w/ tender, N5 (?) in standard box car red, = four camp cars, gondola and lastly the hook. And the hook is producing = his own stack plume.=20 This pic brings up a couple of questions in my mind. First how "common" = was a tender with a hook and second I recall that the hook was generally = the last car, so where would the tender go if one was present? What a = can of worms this is turning out to be! Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C005F3.36F82DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Going thru Pennsy II (to answer a post), found a pic = of an L1s=20 pulling a "wreck train". Line up is L1s w/ tender, N5 (?) in standard = box car=20 red, four camp cars, gondola and lastly the hook. And the hook is = producing his=20 own stack plume.

This pic brings up a couple of questions in my mind. = First how=20 "common" was a tender with a hook and second I recall that the hook was=20 generally the last car, so where would the tender go if one was present? = What a=20 can of worms this is turning out to be!

Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C005F3.36F82DC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:26:05 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's (&GP7s) egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil wrote: )in part) > > . . . . PRR never regarded > their first gen six-axle units as anything other than secondary service, so > they never went on the mainline in that kind of action. Curiously enough, > neither did they view the GP7s, and they were also never seen in mainline > lash-ups. -- I seem to recall numerous fotos of GP7s in main line service, both singly and in multiples. They were also equipped with trainphone antennae which would be odd if they were restricted to branchline and yard service. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:13:51 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR work train tender in yellow > Going thru Pennsy II (to answer a post), found a pic of an L1s >pulling a "wreck train". Line up is L1s w/ tender, N5 (?) in standard box >car red, four camp cars, gondola and lastly the hook. And the hook is >producing his own stack plume. This pic brings up a couple of questions >in my mind. First how "common" was a tender with a hook and second I >recall that the hook was generally the last car, so where would the >tender go if one was present? What a can of worms this is turning out to >be! Walt Prusick Walt, I meant to mention this in my previous posts... Typical order of cars would have been similar to that photo...Loco, Camp cars, usually with the tool and cable cars closest to the derrick, tender, idler, and finally the derrick. This arrangement would allow the crane to be pushed up to the work site without interference from any other car. In the days of coal, the coal would be brought from the tender to the derrick in buckets. Looking carefully at the idlers, you can often see pipes just under the frame, and these could be used as water and oil supply connections. As for leaving the tender behind...if the job required more fuel than the crane could carry, then the tender came along. One interesting note in an issue of the Keystone written by a PRR fireman was that once the wreck train was called out, and had cleaned up the primary mess, they frequently went on a "grand tour" of the railroad, stopping to fix bad order cars all along the way...so in this case, they would need to take the tender, even if the initial clean up was minor. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:56:21 -0300 From: Gene Beam Subject: Re: [PRR] RailFest 2000 Carl Can you tell me the dates for the RailFest 2000 as I'm moving back to Hummelstown, PA from Puerto Rico TOMORROW and hope to get to the RailFest 2000. Any and all information would be appreciated, thank you. Gene Beam chaslett@cse.l-3com.com wrote: > Hello to all, > > Just confirming Jerry's info on the Railfest, > as I just received an announcement about it > from the Museum this past weekend. > > As it was last year, Railfest tours will include > the "Samuel Rea" carshops at Hollidaysburg, and I believe > I saw 7 total Horseshoe Curve excursion times listed. > > Note that there is also a Tri-Regional NMRA > convention that weekend in Altoona, > "the Juniata Junction", so hotel space will be > even more difficult than usual to secure, > especially at the last minute. The NMRA is using > the same hotel that the PRRT&HS used last August > and two or three others on down Pleasant Valley Blvd. > > I will again volunteer to greet and meet PRR-Talk > listers at 9AM Saturday next to the Museum, > with detailed Altoona street maps that have > over 30 PRR-Related Sites or photo locations > marked on them. I will also be involved with > the NMRA activities all weekend, so contact me > OFF-LIST if you'd like info on that convention. > > -Carl Haslett chaslett@cse.L-3Com.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Wreck (Work) Trains Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:48:39 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 12:01 PM To: Al Buchan; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck (Work) Trains Gary, Mark and list, These pictures are good examples of wreck trains and their derricks being used in work train service. There were occasions when the wreckers would be used to move heavy trackwork, move bridges (typically deck and through girder) in and out and assist in moving heavy loads to and from cars for shippers and consignees. Just because the tender is not visible doesn't mean its not there, in both pictures the entire wreck train is not visible. In some cases the tenders were not close or next to the derrick. Some times when the wreck train was in the yard the derrick was not on the correct end of the wreck train to accomplish the work so the derrick and idler were switched out and placed correctly so when the train arrived at the scene the derrick was headed out correctly. This switching out was either done in the yard before departure or at a siding near the point of use, depending on the situation. Typically when switching out like this only the derrick and idler are relocated, the remainder to the train stays intact. When wrecking on the Bayard Branch ca. 1964 we needed two wreck trains to clean up a derailment of TM-2 (The Mingo Man). The Canton wreck train came in engine first and switched out the derrick and idler at the Bayard siding. The Conway wreck train had to run around its wreck derrick at Yellow Creek and push it all the way to Bayard, a distance of about 30 miles. It is possible that the small sheds on the end of the idler cars were coal bunkers, I don't know. Regarding the large 'coast to coast' tenders (I'm not good on tender classed) that some people are referring to in previous posts they can be found on pages 33 and 35 of PDY 5. They were numbered 999400 and 999401, which has always be a curiosity to me as the 999NNN series numbers were typically used for Lines West company service equipment in the early years. There is also a close up of 999401 on pg. 50 of "Classic Freight Cars - The Series" Vol 10 - North American Work Trains and Equipment by Henry Maywald. Pictures of other wreck trains may be found in other PDYs as follows: No. 2 Pg. 35 w/class P-70s, No. 3 Pg. 37 w/class XL at Cape Charles, No. 5 pg. 21 w/class XL and two derricks, also pg. 70 & 71 w/class P-70 (no cabin), No. 6 Pg. 113, w/class XL (no cabin). I may have missed a few somewhere along the line as I was flipping through the books rather fast. To answer Mark Stack man's question about tenders, this is the biggest stumbling block to the modeler today. In my opinion there are no good stand alone tenders currently on the market for use in PRR wreck trains. I bought a brass Lines West tender years ago (forgot manufacturer) and plan to use it with a class GR gondola and locomotive steam crane for work train service similar to what you see on bottom of pg 122, PRR Color Guide 1. I'm still searching for a good tender for the wreck train. The Lewistown wreck trains tender (see pg. 134 of new Lewistown book) is the quintessential PRR wreck train tender. I guess we will have to see what comes forth from Classic Trains. BTW I am convinced that I made an error with the idler car caption in the upper right hand photo on page 134 of the Lewistown book. The idler car (PRR 491228) is clearly stenciled as class FM. However with fix sides it doesn't represent the class FM. From a smaller photo I convinced Chuck Blardone it was a class GR, he was originally going with class FM. However, now that I study it in more detail in a larger format and with the input from friend Richard Hall I am now convinced it is a class FM flatcar modified into a gondola by using class GR type pressed steel ribs. When the PRR converted class GR and GRA gondolas into flat cars they were reclassified as class FGR and FGRA. Therefore, using that logic this car (491228) should have been reclassified as a GFM. Unfortunately the PRR didn't use that class. It is interesting to note that the same idler is seen again (opposite side) with a different derrick on pg. 136. There is also some question as to the actual number and class of the wreck derrick on page 136. There has been some discussion that the number is actually PRR 490789 (rather than 490769) and is a class W120A (rather than a W150B). There seems to be strong evidence to go along with this new information. The photo came with the caption and has also be previously used in the PRR Color Guide 1 on pg. 119 with essentially the same caption. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:14:19 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] GP9s and Trainphones The recent discussion on 44 tonners, SD9s, GP7s, et al made me wonder. As far as I know, GP7s had trainphones, GP9s did not have trainphones, but GP30s again had them (the last engines so equipped, I believe). Why the trainphone hiatus on GP9s? -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] "COAL" & "KLONDIKE" Tracks Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:57:01 -0500 List, I'm looking at the yard chart for Southport Yard (Elmira, N.Y..) and have two questions. First, tracks 32 & 33 are labeled "coal". My guess on this would be "company coal" as in locomotive coal. The location would support this guess. Second question. Tracks k2 & K3 are labeled "klondike". The only thing I can come up with is this has something to do with the icing operations several track over (klondike-Alaska-ice). Anyone got the straight skinny on these as I would like to include the "klondike tracks IF they add to the operation of the yard in model form. Also tracks 1. 2. & 3 are labeled as "pull in". Thanks Pete Reinhold PRRT&HS #5518 Universal Die & Stampings preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:51:55 -0400 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] RailFest 2000 and NMRA MER Convention Dates Greetings to Carl and the group, Rail Fest is October 7 and 8. Rail Fest details available at http://www.railroadcity.com/ and follow the links. The NMRA MER Convention will be held in Altoona on October 6 - 8. Don't have any additional info on that though. The NMRA regional convention web site is not up to date but it is at http://www.tfs.net/~jashaw/nmra/regional.html#Regional Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ At 02:56 PM 08/14/2000 -0300, Gene Beam wrote: >Carl > >Can you tell me the dates for the RailFest 2000 as I'm moving back to >Hummelstown, PA from Puerto Rico TOMORROW and hope to get to the RailFest >2000. Any and all information would be appreciated, thank you. > >Gene Beam > >chaslett@cse.l-3com.com wrote: > >> Hello to all, >> >> Just confirming Jerry's info on the Railfest, >> as I just received an announcement about it >> from the Museum this past weekend. >> >> As it was last year, Railfest tours will include >> the "Samuel Rea" carshops at Hollidaysburg, and I believe >> I saw 7 total Horseshoe Curve excursion times listed. >> >> Note that there is also a Tri-Regional NMRA >> convention that weekend in Altoona, >> "the Juniata Junction", so hotel space will be >> even more difficult than usual to secure, >> especially at the last minute. The NMRA is using >> the same hotel that the PRRT&HS used last August >> and two or three others on down Pleasant Valley Blvd. >> >> I will again volunteer to greet and meet PRR-Talk >> listers at 9AM Saturday next to the Museum, >> with detailed Altoona street maps that have >> over 30 PRR-Related Sites or photo locations >> marked on them. I will also be involved with >> the NMRA activities all weekend, so contact me >> OFF-LIST if you'd like info on that convention. >> >> -Carl Haslett chaslett@cse.L-3Com.com >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Turntable size Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:11:43 -0500 List, Anyone know the size of the turntable at southport yard? Thanks, Pete Reinhold PRRT&HS #5518 Universal Die & Stampings preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] GP9s and Trainphones Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:29:31 -0700 Only second-hand story, but story has it that the first group of GP-9s was equipped to act as first-line lead unit power on long distance freights. The later orders were not equipped as it was felt that extra cost wasn't warranted and those already equipped would always lead....... -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 12:14 PM To: PRR; PRR@egroups.com Subject: [PRR] GP9s and Trainphones The recent discussion on 44 tonners, SD9s, GP7s, et al made me wonder. As far as I know, GP7s had trainphones, GP9s did not have trainphones, but GP30s again had them (the last engines so equipped, I believe). Why the trainphone hiatus on GP9s? -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Andy Miller Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:14:19 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] GP9s and Trainphones The recent discussion on 44 tonners, SD9s, GP7s, et al made me wonder. As far as I know, GP7s had trainphones, GP9s did not have trainphones, but GP30s again had them (the last engines so equipped, I believe). Why the trainphone hiatus on GP9s? -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: [PRR] Locomotive number Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 17:08:24 -0400 Out of curiosity, what class of steam locomotive was PRR 603? That is my house number and I have a keystone number plate over the garage entrance with my house number, but never did find out what class of locomotive PRR 603 was. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 16:25:36 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive number >Out of curiosity, what class of steam locomotive was PRR 603? That is my >house number and I have a keystone number plate over the garage entrance >with my house number, but never did find out what class of locomotive PRR >603 was. > >Gregg Mahlkov Gregg, Based on a quick search of the database on Jerry's site, 603 was a D4, a D7, a D16a, and an L1 mikado... Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 14 Aug 00 17:53:43 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] You didn't ask, but here it is anyway... Reply to: You didn't ask, but here it is anyway... Hi Jerry, and PRR-talkers: I'm more of a lurker than a contributor, as I don't model the PRR directly, and my knowledge of the line is nowhere near some of the other contributors on this list. However, if you're a standard-gauge U.S. railroad modeler, you're also a Pennsy modeler due to its huge roster of equipment that ventured onto others' rails... and that's why I'm a PRR-talk subscriber (I secretly yearn to model the busy Main Line between Thorndale and Parkesburg in the mid-50's, but I have too much investment in model equipment of my friendly neighborhood class 1 at this point...). Anyway, Jerry, this is in response to your proposed conversion to N-scale: On the plus side, N-scale always seemed a natural to me, for replicating the Pennsy's colossal mainline facilities more closely to scale and 'the way they REALLY were'. It also helps when your space is limited but your desires are for big-time mainline action, PRR-style. The Broad Way works out to about 5 inches wide, vs. 10" to 12" in HO. Curve radii that would really cramp full length passenger equipment in HO are the equivalent of 'super broad' curves in N. You can probably get away with less detail in N scale than in HO, as its just that much smaller and detail is harder to discern, particularly with weathered cars. This is probably good, as N-scale seems to lend itself to larger car fleets, and detailing that many tiny cars... well, I don't like to think about such things. The biggest negative about N-scale, in my opinion -- the running qualities of locomotives -- has been conquered by Atlas, Life-Like and to a lesser extent, Con-Cor. It is truly amazing how smoothly N scale equipment now runs, especially at the low end of the speed ranges. Of course, you pay for this quality... The negatives, however, are many. First and foremost, to my mind, is the cost of quality N-scale is basically equivalent to -- and sometimes higher than -- HO for equipment, track and structures. Yes, you can build Harrisburg yard (the Harrisburg freight yard IS in the plan, isn't it?) to nearly full scale, but its going to cost just as much as if you did it in HO, for everything, the track, the locomotives and the cars to fill the huge yards. N-scale being smaller in all three dimensions, you need far more track and equipment to get the feeling of a "big yard". Don't forget, you're going to have to MAINTAIN all those turnouts, cars and engines, too. Second, as you have already alluded to, is the availability of equipment. This situation is getting better, quickly, but things such as N-scale P-5's may never come about (now, watch some importer bring them out next week!). I'm happy for you that Bowser has decided to do its Pennsy cabin car in N-scale -- but at $25 or so a pop! Ay, carumba -- I'm thinking of shots of the pimple track at Enola, and the number of cabins sitting on it at any given time... Third is just physically working on the stuff. The challenge of building PRR-style N-scale catenary comes to mind. Bad enough to have to build it in HO. Your trying some 'hands-on' in N-scale is a GREAT idea, rather than just jumping into it. I have also tried it, and just couldn't resign myself to the small size of the trains, vs. HO (I prefer the sense of the mass of the trains -- if I had the room, I'd convert to O-scale in a second). I urge you to build a mockup of your proposed four-levels to see exactly how easily it will be to work on and maintain, and to see the trains at different levels. Aisle width may be key, here -- the mockups should include both sides of any given aisles, to give an accurate idea of true sight lines for the aisles you plan. Don't forget to factor-in one's fellow human beings, and it appears a LOT will be required to operate what you are proposing -- Harrisburg, the Middle and part of the Pittsburgh division. Yowsa! That's a lot of train movements. How many shifter assignments will Harrisburg alone account for? Two, three, more? Constantly bumping into your fellow operators while engrossed in operating one's train isn't my idea of fun. Also, to consider scenic possibilities between the levels -- the mountains looming over the Middle division or Horse Shoe Curve (or both) might have to be severely truncated, to fit all you're trying to in the space you have. This, to me, would really be selling oneself short on what N-scale does best -- the nearly-to-scale replication of prototype scenes, including the scenery around them. Go back and look at Bernard Kempinski's N-scale C&O layout in Model Railroad Planning a few years ago, to see what I mean. Then try to imagine three more layers of stuff on top of it... Jerry, I know you didn't ask for my humble opinion, but I'll give it anyway: I would discard the Altoona to Cresson portion of your proposed layout (or, model the Mountain and discard the Harrisburg/Middle division). It's too much track and trains, and probably too much to operate given what I remember of your available space for operators. You've done a fantastic job of researching Harrisburg at a 'moment in time', and I assume that is what you'd prefer to concentrate on. End your westward portion of the PRR at the Spruce Creek tunnels -- a logical place for trains to disappear, unless you're a convert to the Bill Darnaby school of division-point-to-division-point runs. Two huge yards is a lot to tackle -- Altoona's freight yard was at least as large as Harrisburg's. Leave the area above the 'upper level' representing the Middle Division open and unsullied so you can incorporate those wonderfully scenic mountain ridges that the Juniata cuts through (with the Pennsy hard beside it) on its way to the Susquehanna. Let the Middle Division be that beautiful, gracefully-curved racetrack of limiteds, merchandise trains, perishable freights and mineral trains on the four-track high iron through some of the most gorgeous scenery in the northeast. You may now commence flaming... -- Doug Drew PRR-Talk wrote: > > >Subject: No Joke, No Dream >From: "Jerry Britton" >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 06:38:28 -0400 > >Well folks, following my report (on "PRR-ER") of dreaming of switching to N >scale, I was approached by two N scalers who said, "Why not?" > >So, I am actually giving them some say and heading their words. No, I'm not >saying I'm switching, I'm saying I'm giving it "sincere consideration". HO >scalers might salivate at the possibility, given my locomotive collection. > >An incredible N scale layout has been devised, with a lower level beginning >in Steelton and including the Harrisburg passenger station from Paxton >Street through State Street (all of the freight, rea) in EXACT scale with >absolutely nothing left out! It then includes the complete loco terminal >with only slight modifications. > >The next level starts with the Rockville Bridge and then cruises through >several scenes of the Middle Division...namely BANKS, probably VIEW, then a >small station...perhaps MIFFLIN, LEWIS, or HUNT. Finally, South Altoona, >where helpers would tag on. > >A top level would climb past the Brickyard and Kittanning Point, through >Horseshoe Curve, up past MG, the Allegripus, and into Tunnel Hill. On the >other side, flatten out and pass MO and the Cresson engine facility. > >A helix then drops all the way back down below the first level to staging. > >It all fits, and these "four" levels are all possible because of the >decreased space N scale requires between levels. > >I am meeting with an N scaler this Thursday to get "hands on" to see if I >can actually work with the track, decals, etc. DCC decoder installation will >also be considered, as DCC is a must! > >Meanwhile, I am doing a study of what is/isn't available in N scale. I know >my loco collection will suffer, but more is available than I originally >thought. Also, more 1948 passenger cars are available than I had thought, >plus Laser Horizons indicates they can make more. > >Heavyweight and head-end equipment -- especially B60's -- are sorely >lacking. > >X-29's are a plenty, but much other rolling stock needs to be found. > >Prospects for sound are not good at the moment. I was planning to use >Soundtraxx heavily. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:24:27 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Locomotive number Last Pennsy engine to carry the number 603 was a L1s 2-8-2 built in 1/18 and scrapped in 1/49. Frank Brua Gregg Mahlkov wrote: > Out of curiosity, what class of steam locomotive was PRR 603? That is my > house number and I have a keystone number plate over the garage entrance > with my house number, but never did find out what class of locomotive PRR > 603 was. > > Gregg Mahlkov > http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Wreck (Work) Trains Al, Thanks! As always your expertise on this subject has hit its mark. Will use your pointers for my wreck/work train. I do not have the book that you said had a photo of the most normal tender the PRR used on these trains but my guess it is the 90F82 tender from the class I1 locos. There is one pictured in the Ken Kobus publication on Pittsburgh. Vol 2, page 21, bottom photo. center of pic. Is this the tender you speak of? Never mind the nice shot of the double headed Baldwin Transfer Units in the foregoround, although they do steal the show. This should be the same tender that appears on the fire fighting car too. Again, Thanks for sharing your experiences.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:49:05 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Kiesel tenders in M of W service Hello list, While we're on the thread of work trains, did any of the Kiesel tenders (110P75, 110P75a, 130P75, 130F82a, etc) end up in work train service after being shorn of their K4s, I1sa, M1, and L1s engines? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:27:57 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) From: Jerry Britton I've updated the list of "suggested" models in the Passenger Operations section of "Keystone Crossings"... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/sug_models.html I would appreciate it if those "in the know" would review the prototype information. I have added many plan numbers that I was aware of. Of particular need of attention is the description of the HARBOR series cars. Something isn't right! I've also added a column of models in N scale!!! There aren't many, so help me fill in the blanks, please. One lister, whose name I shall protect at the moment, already contacted me about B-60B's. Do you plan to sell them publicly, or just privately? If publicly, I'd like to add "coming soon" in the N scale column for this car. Also, Rivarossi sells their packs of cars in PRR livery. One pack has three "1930's Roomette" cars. Are these accurate sides as their HO scale counterparts are? If so, these would be the PS106 10-6 RAPIDS cars. What about the "1930's Observation"? Is it accurate for the Broadway's VIEW car as the HO version is? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:00:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) In a message dated 8/15/00 9:38:04 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Of particular need of attention is the description of the HARBOR series cars. Something isn't right! >> Harbor Point and Harbor Spring were constructed as 2BR Bar lounge-Secretary-Barbershop cars in 1938. Secretary and Barbershop rooms were converted in 1943,resulting in a 5BR Bar lounge car. This car is distinctive for the minimum number of windows on the side where Raymond Loewy designed the lounge booths. In 1949, Harbor Rest and Harbor Cove were delivered as 3BR Bar lounge-Secretary-Barbershop cars and converted to 5BR Bar lounges in 1955. I don't know what happened to window arrangements during the conversions. My AMB laser kit is at the club for our contest so I don't have it here to compare with drawings. I do know it is of the 1949 car. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:46:09 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Diesel Models Listing (now includes N scale) From: Jerry Britton I am working on updating the Diesel Locomotive Models listing on "Keystone Crossings"... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/motiveops/diesel_xref.html If you can help, please do. I have been remiss in keeping it up to date. I need to add in some recent additions and road numbers. Let me know what I've missed. I've also added a column for N scale models! Currently it is completely empty...so speak up!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: [PRR] 2-Rail,'O'Scale, PRR P-70, PB-70, P-70fbr, etc Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:32:16 -0400 Hi gang, Need some help here. This is to advise everybody about an up-and -coming 2-Rail, 'O'Scale Museum Quality layout that is under construction depicting the PRSL (Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Lines) during the early to mid 50's in Southern New jersey, Camden to Cape May. It is being built at the RR Museum of South Jersey at Tuckahoe, NJ. Well, this thing is definitely a GO. We are looking for additional members to help this project. Anyone interested say AYE!! We are also looking for some reasonably priced, and reasonably accurate PRR (and Reading) passenger equipment. RTR, kits, built-up, brass, fixer-uppers, or whatever. To do this project correctly, we will need to supplement what our existing members already have. PRSL ran a lot of passenger trains. If you have, or know of anybody else who has PRR passenger equipment to sell, or donate (we are a tax deductible museum) please contact me at Charles.Burnley@Conectiv.com. I am also a member of this PRR-talk@dsop.com group. Thanking you in advance. Buzz Burnley PRRT&HS #271 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:32:45 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) Jerry Britton wrote: > I've updated the list of "suggested" models in the Passenger Operations > section of "Keystone Crossings"... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/sug_models.html > > I would appreciate it if those "in the know" would review the prototype > information. I have added many plan numbers that I was aware of. > > I've also added a column of models in N scale!!! There aren't many, so help > me fill in the blanks, please. > Jerry and the list, Just a quick note to help on the list. Not that I'm and N scaler, but Bowser has announced they are doing their N5 cabin in N scale. Check out their web site (sorry, I don't have the URL handy.) One added thing, though it's not germane to the Pennsy, is express reefers that appeared in most every railroad's passenger trains somewhere along the line. Micro-Tains Line just this month released the 7xxx series (last series built) of REA express reefers. It has the correct BX express truck w/snubber on it, too. (If I may ring my own bell here a little, this is one of the cars I worked on for them when I used to work there. Also, included in there were the PRR X32b, X29 [if they ever do the correct vertical staff brake wheel version], and the NW/PRR H11a/H43 hoppers.) In HO, remember the Branchline has announced their REA express reefer (an earlier version than Micro-Trains' N scale car). Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:31:11 -0400 >>when the kit first came out [Tichy crane] there was an article I believe in the prior incarnation of Model Railroading that had several shots of the PRR Crane virtually identical to the kit. ================================ Perhaps the article was the one in MLM May 1983, by John C. LaRue, Jr. pgs 62-69, 16 photos. Includes one PRR (490712 at PHL) and three PC derricks, two of which were former PRR. You can still see one of these (Tichy cranes) at Strasburg, I believe it to be the PRR derrick from the Cape Charles wreck train. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR EP-22 (E-8) List, Remember the sale of ex-Conrail E-8 4020 last month? I just checked in on the PRRT&HS home page and stopped by on the Phila Chapter site. Seems the new owner of the Loco (Juniata Terminal) is wasting no time in getting it restored back to Pennsy EP-22 #5809. Paint has been stripped and sheet metal work is being done now. Now, what paint scheme? I would like to see the mid 1950's single dulux Broad Stripe on Tuscan Red. That would stand out anywhere......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: [PRR] Fire Fighting Trains (was PRR Wreck Trains) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:24:32 -0500 I have found the recent thread on PRR Wreck Trains most interesting. Several posts on the subject have mentioned rolling stock that appeared in consists of Fire Fighting Trains as well as Wreck Trains. That brings up the subject of Fire Fighting Trains, of which I know absolutely nothing. Sounds like another fascinating subject with questions such as: 1. What were the consists in Fire Fighting Trains? 2. Was there special rolling stock unique to Fire Fighting Trains? 3. Are there pictures and/or written material on Fire Fighting Trains? 4. Did the PRR have dedicated Fire Fighting Trains or were they assembled as required? 4. How many Fire Fighting Trains did the PRR have? 5. Where were Fire Fighting Trains located? 6. How were Fire Fighting Trains dispatched and deployed? 7. What were the fire fighting tactics employed when using Fire Fighting Trains? Bill Laird Canyon Lake, Texas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:01:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Newark Station Any word on the progress of the Newark passenger station project from???? Todd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] 44Toner's and SD9's From: Michael Allen There was an article in TRAINS some years back about PRR use of 44t. IIRC it includes a roster which shows which ones were equipped with MU. MEA On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:18:52 EDT NDBPRR@aol.com writes: > Every picture I have seen of these engines shows them operating as > single units. Did either have MU capability and does anyone know if > they were ever run in multiples? Were the SD9's ever used in a lash > up? Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:49:58 -0700 Subject: [PRR] FW: Passenger Models Submission From: "Doug and Marianne" ---------- From: "Doug and Marianne" To: jerry@pennsyrr.com Subject: Passenger Models Submission Date: Tue, Aug 15, 2000, 10:48 PM Jerry: Here are some N scale additions to your models list: 1938 Broadway - Previously produced by Key in brass 1948 Broadway - Rivarossi View series observation cars 1948 Broadway - Rivarossi Rapids series sleeping cars 12-1 Heavyweight sleeper - Rivarossi MP54 sets - NJ International brass N5 Cabin cars - Bowser and Precision Scale brass N5c cabin cars - Key and Precision Scale brass N6b Cabin cars - NJ International brass N6b Cabin cars - Gloor Craft kit N8 Cabin cars - Key and Precision scale brass P70 coach - Lima/Model Power PBM70 (not sure of class designation - P70 combine with baggage and RPO) - Lima/Model Power R50b express reefer - NJ International brass X-29 - Fine N kit (better than Red Caboose) -- Doug Nelson 514 East Blithedale Ave. Mill Valley, CA 94941 babal@slip.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 06:24:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22 (E-8) From: Jerry Britton On 8/15/00 11:07 PM, Gary Mittner at (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > Remember the sale of ex-Conrail E-8 4020 last month? I just checked > in on the PRRT&HS home page and stopped by on the Phila Chapter site. > Seems the new owner of the Loco (Juniata Terminal) is wasting no time in > getting it restored back to Pennsy EP-22 #5809. Paint has been stripped > and sheet metal work is being done now. Now, what paint scheme? I would > like to see the mid 1950's single dulux Broad Stripe on Tuscan Red. > That would stand out anywhere......Gary > > Ahem, you'll be pleased to learn that the new owner is a subscriber to this list!!! Imagine the E-8 properly restored and pulling the PENNSYLVANIA business car. Need I say more? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 06:46:44 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22 (E-8) Say no more!! It will be Single broad strip, complete with antennas, and restored portholes. Keep on watching www.prrths.com BL Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 8/15/00 11:07 PM, Gary Mittner at (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > > > Remember the sale of ex-Conrail E-8 4020 last month? I just checked > > in on the PRRT&HS home page and stopped by on the Phila Chapter site. > > Seems the new owner of the Loco (Juniata Terminal) is wasting no time in > > getting it restored back to Pennsy EP-22 #5809. Paint has been stripped > > and sheet metal work is being done now. Now, what paint scheme? I would > > like to see the mid 1950's single dulux Broad Stripe on Tuscan Red. > > That would stand out anywhere......Gary > > > > > Ahem, you'll be pleased to learn that the new owner is a subscriber to this > list!!! Imagine the E-8 properly restored and pulling the PENNSYLVANIA > business car. Need I say more? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 07:05:02 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22 (E-8) As an afterthought, we are trying to get the work finished ASAP. Please no vistors at the shop! There is a lot of work to be done and we do not have the time to extend hospitality to unannounced, random, visitors. We will have photographs posted on the PRRTHS site as often as possible so you can keep informed as to the progress. Everyone's cooperation in abiding to this request would be appreciated. Bennett Levin Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 8/15/00 11:07 PM, Gary Mittner at (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > > > Remember the sale of ex-Conrail E-8 4020 last month? I just checked > > in on the PRRT&HS home page and stopped by on the Phila Chapter site. > > Seems the new owner of the Loco (Juniata Terminal) is wasting no time in > > getting it restored back to Pennsy EP-22 #5809. Paint has been stripped > > and sheet metal work is being done now. Now, what paint scheme? I would > > like to see the mid 1950's single dulux Broad Stripe on Tuscan Red. > > That would stand out anywhere......Gary > > > > > Ahem, you'll be pleased to learn that the new owner is a subscriber to this > list!!! Imagine the E-8 properly restored and pulling the PENNSYLVANIA > business car. Need I say more? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L Subject: RE: [PRR] Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:38:32 -0500 Here's the link to the Bowser N Scale N-5 Cabin cars http://www.bowser-trains.com/N%20Products.htm -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Friedlein [mailto:diehexe@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 4:33 PM To: Jerry Britton Cc: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) Jerry Britton wrote: > I've updated the list of "suggested" models in the Passenger Operations > section of "Keystone Crossings"... > > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/sug_models.html > > I would appreciate it if those "in the know" would review the prototype > information. I have added many plan numbers that I was aware of. > > I've also added a column of models in N scale!!! There aren't many, so help > me fill in the blanks, please. > Jerry and the list, Just a quick note to help on the list. Not that I'm and N scaler, but Bowser has announced they are doing their N5 cabin in N scale. Check out their web site (sorry, I don't have the URL handy.) One added thing, though it's not germane to the Pennsy, is express reefers that appeared in most every railroad's passenger trains somewhere along the line. Micro-Tains Line just this month released the 7xxx series (last series built) of REA express reefers. It has the correct BX express truck w/snubber on it, too. (If I may ring my own bell here a little, this is one of the cars I worked on for them when I used to work there. Also, included in there were the PRR X32b, X29 [if they ever do the correct vertical staff brake wheel version], and the NW/PRR H11a/H43 hoppers.) In HO, remember the Branchline has announced their REA express reefer (an earlier version than Micro-Trains' N scale car). Chuck Friedlein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" Subject: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:47:10 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C007A1.A282A958 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is this the best place to get info on the PRSL? I am interested in the Penns Grove, Carney's Pt and Deepwater NJ. 1)Where did the Penn's Grove branch end? 2)Was there ever passenger traffic? Thanks, David ------_=_NextPart_001_01C007A1.A282A958 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ
Is this the best place to get info on the PRSL?

I am interested in the Penns Grove, Carney's Pt and Deepwater NJ.

1)Where did the Penn's Grove branch end?

2)Was there ever passenger traffic?

Thanks, David
------_=_NextPart_001_01C007A1.A282A958-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L Subject: [PRR] Howdy ! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:00:13 -0500 Hello everybody. I just recently subscribed to the list and would like to introduce myself. I'm currently in the Marine Corps and living in Fort Worth TX. I grew up in West Chester PA, and was a frequent visitor to the Withford train station which was only a few miles from the house. Whenever I get homesick, I drive to Dallas and visit the GG-1 at the Age of Steam RR Museum. I'm only 26, but I do remember when the main line was four shiny tracks and were ruled by GG-1's, E-44's, and some GP's and SD's painted in PC with a very few still lettered in PRR. My fondest memories were watching the freights on the Trenton cut-off crossing the big trestle and shaking it. It would shake for ten minutes after the train had passed. I do a lot of modeling, mostly HO scale. I've done a few Bowser kits, collected some brass pieces, and detailed plastics. My next big project is to tackle Bowsers T-1. I'm in the process of collecting prototype pictures and plan on detailing it the most I can. I also plan on upgrading the drive mechanism and install directional lights. I'm developing a PRR modeling website and plan on posting the T-1 project as it progresses. Well that's enough rambling for now. Talk to you all later. Joe Hildenbrand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:19:30 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ --------------9DFB8016B048F42C9EA605F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, There was passenger traffic on the Penns Grove Branch. Portions of the branch were electrified in the early part of the century and discontinued in the 20's or 30's. A great resource is a book by Gladulich, "By Rail to the Sea." There are several other smaller volumes put out by the South Jersey chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society (sic), that deal with portions of the PRSL. I have a bunch of public time tables several employee timetables that give an idea of the general activity of the railroad. The Penns Grove branch served a very rich agricultural area as well as the industries that developed along the line. I grew up in Mt. Ephraim, two blocks from the Gren Loch Branch. I now live in New Hampshire. There are at least five other guys on the list who have an interest in the PRSL. There might be others on the Reading listserve. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" wrote: > > > Is this the best place to get info on the PRSL? > > I am interested in the Penns Grove, Carney's Pt and Deepwater NJ. > > 1)Where did the Penn's Grove branch end? > > 2)Was there ever passenger traffic? > > Thanks, David --------------9DFB8016B048F42C9EA605F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David,
There was passenger traffic on the Penns Grove Branch. Portions of the branch were electrified in the early part of the century and discontinued in the 20's or 30's. A great resource is a book by Gladulich, "By Rail to the Sea." There are several other smaller volumes put out by the South Jersey chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society (sic), that deal with portions of the PRSL. I have a bunch of public time tables several employee timetables that give an idea of the general activity of the railroad. The Penns Grove branch served a very rich agricultural area as well as the industries that developed along the line. I grew up in Mt. Ephraim, two blocks from the Gren Loch Branch. I now live in New Hampshire. There are at least five other guys on the list who have an interest in the PRSL. There might be others on the Reading listserve.
Tom Mahon
Merrimack, NH
"Lind, David C. (NASWI)" wrote:

Is this the best place to get info on the PRSL?
I am interested in the Penns Grove, Carney's Pt and Deepwater NJ.
1)Where did the Penn's Grove branch end?
2)Was there ever passenger traffic?
Thanks, David
--------------9DFB8016B048F42C9EA605F2-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:15:21 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] PRR Video Howdy y'all I was looking at the add for Heron Rail Video's "Pennsy's Racetrack! North East Corridor 1940-1980!" and considering adding the video to my collection...any erstwhile reviewers out there? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR EP-22 (E-8) Bennett, Bill, Jerry, List, Just got home and seen the emails concerning the EP-22. Great!, Please keep the restoration photos coming. I was going to mention antenna's last night but thought that was just wishful thinking. Glad to see you are going all out. I like your choice of paint scheme too! I was too young to see these in their prime but looks like we got a second chance. Thanks and Good Luck ....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:30:39 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] EP-22 Hi all... I haven't seen a pic of it for a while,but don't forget the nose rings and pilot mods. I remember seeing pics of the two on the Blue Mountain and Reading that while they looked great,had the snow plow pilots and no antennas. Did anyone buy 4022 ? I'd guess it would look good in its former Erie colors too. Now all we need is someone to build the Baldwin and Alco passenger units (although i guess you could paint the former DH 17 in PRR paint after it gets restored as a NKP unit). And a T-1 or Q-2...Hmmm how about a Centepede.....Bill Gates where are you? (I hear he likes Trains) Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ Dave, Some of the PRSL equipment still survives. Its located in Rio Grand NJ. I saw it today making a service call in the area. A PRR GP9 ( I think ) #7000 caught my eye. There is an excursion Train that runs from Cape May Courthouse south past Wildwood. There operating original PRSL passenger cars. Maybe they would have some info on the PRSL in the Pennsgrove area.--------Mark L-------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] Locomotive Workshop Kits Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:05:36 +0100 A Scottish friend of mine who specialises in collecting megabucks HO brass articulated steam (we all have our cross to bear :-) has sent me a catalogue from Locomotive Workshop of Englishtown, New Jersey. He's interested in the kit they do for the PRR HC1s 2-8-8-0 and has asked me what I know about it. The short answer is nothing. Has anyone on the list had any experience with this kit or any of Locomotive Workshop products? Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Fire Fighting Trains (was PRR Wreck Trains) Bill, I wish I had more than one photo of this Tender on Flatcar Fire Fighting Car. The only photo I have is in the soft book "The Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" from Wayner Publications. (Out of Print) Page 62 top left pic. The photo shows a 90F82 ex-I1 Tender Shell setting on one end of a Flat car. On the other end is a large Tool Shed. I am not sure of the Flat Car Class. But it appears to be rather long. Did the Pennsy have a 60' or 60+' Flat Car? I assume the 90F82 Tender is aprox. 35' Long and the Tool Shed appears to be about 25+'. Plus there is a small 3' (?) gap between the tender and shed. It is possible to make a "close enough" model. I built one years ago using an Athearn Flat Car (too short), a Bowser K4 Tender (wrong class), and a Tool Shed from scale wood siding. Actually I made 2. One got painted Yellow and the other Gray. Sold them both. They looked OK but I think a better model is able to be built these days. The new Trainstuff 90F82 Tender will be available shortly and the wood is still around. The problem is the FlatCar. May have to kit bash 2 Bowser's F-30a 40' Flat cars to get a better length. Or possibly 2 Tichy 53 footers cut down to the correct length. As for a prototype Fire Fighting train? I havn't the foggiest idea what equipment it would have included. Al, any thoughts? This Tender on Flatcar may have been the whole train. Pumps and hoses may have been stored in the tool shed??? Power could have been any available hog setting around. I don't have any of the PRR Color guide books from Morning Sun. Is there more photos in there?.........Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:59:17 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] EP-22 The engine 4020 retained its lifting lugs on the nose. While not a high priority we will eventually try to replace the existing freight pilot with a passenger pilot. Keep watching the www.prrths.com site for progress photos. BL bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hi all... > > I haven't seen a pic of it for a while,but don't > forget the nose rings and pilot mods. > > I remember seeing pics of the two on the Blue Mountain > and Reading that while they looked great,had the snow > plow pilots and no antennas. > > Did anyone buy 4022 ? I'd guess it would look > good in its former Erie colors too. > > Now all we need is someone to build the Baldwin and > Alco passenger units (although i guess you could > paint the former DH 17 in PRR paint after it gets > restored as a NKP unit). And a T-1 or Q-2...Hmmm > how about a Centepede.....Bill Gates where are you? > (I hear he likes Trains) > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Lines West Coal Bunker Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:17:29 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C007B6.9E99DD60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List members, Bought the RoundHouse low side PRR tender, and Doug was able to supply = the Bowser part number for the Lines West Coal Bunker. (Thanks Doug). = Now does Bowser supply a detail sheet, much like the sheet supplied with = the super detailing kit, for this tender. If not, does anyone have plans = or pics they would be willing to share with me? I have Model Railroader = Cyclopedia Vol. 1 (shows E6s with tender) and a brass Lines West from my = trusty N1sa which I can pattern this endeavor after, but prints would be = nice. Thanks in advance. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C007B6.9E99DD60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List members,

Bought the RoundHouse low side PRR tender, and Doug = was able=20 to supply the Bowser part number for the Lines West Coal Bunker. (Thanks = Doug).=20 Now does Bowser supply a detail sheet, much like the sheet supplied with = the=20 super detailing kit, for this tender. If not, does anyone have plans or = pics=20 they would be willing to share with me? I have Model Railroader = Cyclopedia Vol.=20 1 (shows E6s with tender) and a brass Lines West from my trusty N1sa = which I can=20 pattern this endeavor after, but prints would be nice. Thanks in=20 advance.

Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C007B6.9E99DD60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] another R-50b Ok you all... Heres another R-50b off line for you. In the April 1977 issue of "Trains" is a shot of a R-50b cut in just behind the tender of a Southern engine on a passenger train somewhere in Virginia. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:29:49 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00857.99FA65F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well Mark, I live in Washington State right now. Maybe I can check that out next summer if I can get back. Thanks, David -----Original Message----- From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:51 AM To: lindd@naswi.navy.mil; prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ Dave, Some of the PRSL equipment still survives. Its located in Rio Grand NJ. I saw it today making a service call in the area. A PRR GP9 ( I think ) #7000 caught my eye. There is an excursion Train that runs from Cape May Courthouse south past Wildwood. There operating original PRSL passenger cars. Maybe they would have some info on the PRSL in the Pennsgrove area.--------Mark L-------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00857.99FA65F8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ
Well Mark,

I live in Washington State right now. Maybe I = can check that out next summer if I can get back. Thanks,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:51 AM
To: lindd@naswi.navy.mil; prr-talk@dsop.com
Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ

Dave, Some of the PRSL equipment still = survives. Its located in Rio
Grand NJ. I saw it today making a service call in = the area. A PRR GP9 (
I think ) #7000 caught my eye. There is an excursion = Train that runs
from Cape May Courthouse south past Wildwood. There = operating original
PRSL passenger cars. Maybe they would have some info = on the PRSL in the
Pennsgrove area.--------Mark L--------------

---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------= --------
For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", = send the message "help" to
"listserv@dsop.com".
------_=_NextPart_001_01C00857.99FA65F8-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:42:24 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00859.5F267EA6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone know what locomotives the PRSL used to run/ switch freight on the Penn's Grove Branch? David ------_=_NextPart_001_01C00859.5F267EA6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ
Does anyone know what locomotives the PRSL used to run/ switch freight on the Penn's Grove Branch?

David
------_=_NextPart_001_01C00859.5F267EA6-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:52:45 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ The equipment is RDC cars and several p70 coaches. The Cape May Seashore Lines operates from the C.H. to Cape May on trackage leased from the State of NJ. It is a first rate operation. PRR 7000 is leased the United NJ RR Group which is the umbrella group seeking to establish a RR Museum for the State of NJ. The engine is in excellent condition. They also have an ex- PRR, Altoona rebuilt RS-3 which they are looking to restore to PRR paint and Lettering. The operators are serious, hard working, and have the prospects of making this railroad something more than a tourist attraction. It is really the way to get to Capy May and avoid the traffic. Bennett Levin > "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" wrote: > > Well Mark, > > I live in Washington State right now. Maybe I can check that out next summer if I can get back. Thanks, > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:51 AM > To: lindd@naswi.navy.mil; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ > > Dave, Some of the PRSL equipment still survives. Its located in Rio > Grand NJ. I saw it today making a service call in the area. A PRR GP9 ( > I think ) #7000 caught my eye. There is an excursion Train that runs > from Cape May Courthouse south past Wildwood. There operating original > PRSL passenger cars. Maybe they would have some info on the PRSL in the > Pennsgrove area.--------Mark L-------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:54:50 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ The best possible source of the information on Penns Grove is the West Jersey Chapter of the NRHS. > "Lind, David C. (NASWI)" wrote: > > Well Mark, > > I live in Washington State right now. Maybe I can check that out > next summer if I can get back. Thanks, > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net [mailto:K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:51 AM > To: lindd@naswi.navy.mil; prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ > > Dave, Some of the PRSL equipment still survives. Its located in Rio > Grand NJ. I saw it today making a service call in the area. A PRR GP9 > ( > I think ) #7000 caught my eye. There is an excursion Train that runs > from Cape May Courthouse south past Wildwood. There operating original > > PRSL passenger cars. Maybe they would have some info on the PRSL in > the > Pennsgrove area.--------Mark L-------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "taylorsouthwood" Subject: [PRR] [PRR} Cabin Car Information Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:41:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00848.6BEAEE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad's Eastern Region during the = early 1950's. I have undecorated models of Bowser's N5 and N5C cabin = cars modeled with the trainphone antenna system, which I hope would be = correct. I am looking for any information or photo's that would provide = road numbers and build dates to complete these models. Thanks in advance = to any information that is provided. Mark = taylorsouthwood@msn.com=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00848.6BEAEE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am modeling the Pennsylvania = Railroad's Eastern=20 Region during the early 1950's. I have undecorated models of Bowser's N5 = and N5C=20 cabin cars modeled with the trainphone antenna system, which I hope = would be=20 correct. I am looking for any information or photo's that would provide = road=20 numbers and build dates to complete these models. Thanks in advance to = any=20 information that is provided. =20 Mark taylorsouthwood@msn.com=20
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00848.6BEAEE80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 17 Aug 00 14:27:37 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] RE:Psgr,the Red Arrow, wreck Q? The Red Arrow wreck, had a double head of K4s locomotives. Both went down the side of the mountain. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:18:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Transfer runs What distinguishes a transfer run? Why is it any different from any other road freight between two points? Thanks for any input. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Transfer runs Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:22:13 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mahlkov" To: Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Transfer runs > A transfer run is a cut of cars "transferred" from one yard to another of > the same or another railroad within the terminal switching limits of a city. > In other words, waybills may or may not accompany the transfer run (they > were usually sent ahead by messenger, if the cars had waybills). > > Gregg Mahlkov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 5:18 PM > Subject: [PRR] Transfer runs > > > > What distinguishes a transfer run? Why is it any different from any other > > road freight between two points? Thanks for any input. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:29:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Wreck Trains In a message dated 08/15/2000 6:39:12 PM Central Daylight Time, abbuchan@home.com writes: << Perhaps the article was the one in MLM May 1983, by John C. LaRue, Jr. pgs 62-69, 16 photos. Includes one PRR (490712 at PHL) and three PC derricks, two of which were former PRR. You can still see one of these (Tichy cranes) at Strasburg, I believe it to be the PRR derrick from the Cape Charles wreck train. >> Hi Al & List, Could be, but my IIRC says the prior incarnation of Model Railroading, but I'm quickly learning not to have too much faith in my IIRC. Al S ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona built diesels Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:04:55 +1000 Bennett Levin Wrote:- > excellent condition. They also have an ex- PRR, Altoona rebuilt RS-3 > which they are looking to restore to PRR paint and Lettering. Was that correct that PRR built Loco's for Alco? I knew conrail had been building loco's fo GMDD recently but I had never heard of PRR doing it. Except of course for the three "AAx" boxcabs. Thanx Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] FW: PRR Fire Equipment Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:00:47 -0400 Gary and list, I really can't shed too much factual light on the subject as I never saw the car in action or even in the yard. The picture I have is from PHL as the High Line (technically called the West Philadelphia Elevated by the PRR - HL was slang until Conrail sanctified it) is in the background. I forget the name of the yard the car was in but it was just south of the REA facility which was just south of 30th Station, sort of east of the U of P stadium. I would speculate that is was a single piece of equipment operated with a locomotive and cabin, dispatched as required to put out right-of-way and tie fires. It the days of steam engines the possibility of ROW and tie fires were obviously a lot more prevalent. This would be a useful piece of equipment especially for tie fires on long and/or high open deck bridges, such as the movable bridge at Delair, which local fire departments would have a hard time servicing. This was also true of ROW fires in 'wilderness' areas w/o access roads. A tie fire was the ultimate demise of the Hudson River crossing at Poughkeepsie, NY. The ties caught fire on this very high and long structure and were not put out, the heat did significant structural damage and the bridge was not reopened. This was an interesting route as it gave a lower NY State crossing of the Hudson R. for traffic from the south destined for New England, of course other than cross harbor floating from Greenville, NJ to Bayridge, NY. I was always of the opinion that the NYC side of the PC house was not keen on short stopping traffic to Selkirk. If I recall correctly this was an issue during USRA's early Conrail planning period - whether to rehab Poughkeepsie or not. It is also possible that this fire equipment followed the rail grinding train to extinguish fires that may have started. Remember guys this is mostly speculation, I never actually saw it. In the earlier day we did weed burning with a piece of track equipment appropriately called a weed burner. This was always a great fire starter, especially during dry summers. However, this rig was typically followed by a motor car with trackmen equipped with brooms and back pack water pumpers. Some locations had a tank of water on a trailer car which could be dispersed by hose (pressure from it own head) or by bucket. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:40:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] [PRR} Cabin Car Information Mark and all, Start here: http://kc.pennsyrr.com/WS4D_Cookie=8.17.00_20,31,09_3331/forms/cabins/index. html This is Jerry Brittion's Searchable Cabin Car data base. You should be able to find everything you want here. You'll need to convert your request from Eastern Region to one that matches the available Regions. You should be able to locate car number, trainphone equipment and whether or not it is assiged and where. Jump in, it's easy and fun and you get some great information. Ed Martin ...feared by Cajon Division Director Ed Hall, PSR,NMRA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dick Taylor" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRSL & Penn's Grove, NJ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:48:48 -0500 Hi Dave; Welcome to the list. Like Tom, I grew up along the Grenloch branch but also spent a lot of time haunting the tracks in Cape May County so I'm not much of a source of info about the Penn's Grove area. Is this the place for PRSL info? Well, not being an expert but I don't think the PRSL was the Pacific, Reno and Salt Lake. :^) Regards, Dick Taylor Dalbo MN. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Lind, David C. (NASWI) Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:47 AM To: 'PRR-Talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] PRSL & Penns Grove, NJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:31:40 -0400 From: Bennett Levin Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona built diesels Either PC or Conrail re-engined the RS-3 with an EMD prime mover. The Rebuilt carcass was originally a PRR engine. The telltale sign is the double exhaust and the slightly elevated lump on top of the hood.the unit carries the correct PRR number. Graeme Nitz wrote: > > Bennett Levin Wrote:- > > > excellent condition. They also have an ex- PRR, Altoona rebuilt RS-3 > > which they are looking to restore to PRR paint and Lettering. > > Was that correct that PRR built Loco's for Alco? > > I knew conrail had been building loco's fo GMDD recently but I had never > heard of PRR doing it. > > Except of course for the three "AAx" boxcabs. > > Thanx > > Graeme Nitz > PRRT&HS Member #1313 > prr@unite.com.au > An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" > With a touch of Reading. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR-Need Nick Kulp's e-mail address Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:19:06 EDT Does anybody have Nicks address or are you out there Nick? Sam Vastano ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] DeWitt Geeps (originally Altoona Built Diesels) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:46:39 -0700 Bennett Levin wrote: "Either PC or Conrail re-engined the RS-3 with an EMD prime mover. The rebuilt carcass was originally a PRR engine. The telltale sign is the double exhaust and the slightly elevated lump on top of the hood. The unit carries the correct PRR number." What we've got here is a "DeWitt Geep." PC began rebuilding RS3's to alleviate a shortage of light road switchers, and the program was continued into the early years of Conrail. The prime mover was most often an EMD 567 from a scrapped E unit. The infamous PRR 5589 (LV/CR) "Hammerhead" was rebuilt into a DeWitt Geep by Conrail, which probably ensured its survival to the present day. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:36:19 -0700 Subject: [PRR] New Bowser N Scale PRR N5 Cabin Cars From: "Doug and Marianne" I have posted additional photos of the new Bowser N Scale N5 Cabin Car. The new photos show the Gold Medal etched brass antennas installed. Note that the trucks shown are NOT the correct trucks that Bowser will be including with the production models. The N5 will be produced in 30 versions for several correct railroads in addition to the PRR. There will be 12 PRR versions produced. This is a great addition for N Scale PRR modelers. If the N5 does well, an N5c will be next. The photos can be viewed at: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=7529380 My thanks to Lee English of Bowser who gave me this model at the San Jose train show. Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA babal@slip.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-n_scale] New Bowser N Scale PRR N5 Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:43:31 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 17 Aug, "Doug and Marianne" wrote: > I have posted additional photos of the new Bowser N Scale N5 Cabin Car. > [ ... ] > > The photos can be viewed at: > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=7529380 Thanks, Doug! I see that the paint is quite close to the hopper next to it that looks like MT's recent GLa, right? If so, good. We had some worries about the color match. Looks fine to me. Is the lighter color of the end scan or the darker side view closer to the real color? I would assume that the difference is a scanner artifact because of the funny lighting. That is a scan, isn't it, or did I just insult your photography skills... :-) Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:36:46 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: [PRR] Test Test message. I sent one 4 days ago and it never appeared. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] EP-22 (TAN) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:36:24 -0400 List, Just returned from Steamtown where I took the Pacific Parade tour and saw the K4 which "will be ready in Sept." (The park guides words) which was quickly followed by "what year is another matter" I know that Phil chapter was hoping to have it at the Rail Museum for PRR days 2001 but to me that doesn't look like it is going to happen. I think when it is done it will almost be a new K4 because they are replacing almost everything. It seems when they rebuilt her they DID NOT take care of all the problems that came from storage. The B&M "Constitution" Pacific is in better shape even though she's been stored since the late 50's. The K4 is small compared to the B&M Pacific. The B&M loco needs money to be restored so SAVE THE CONSTITUTION! and send your donations. And to take the ball from Hank: "Now all we need is someone to build the Baldwin and Alco passenger units <>...Hmmm how about a Centepede.....Bill Gates where are you? (I hear he likes Trains)" I know its not PRR but if Bill Gates wants to donate 4 mil. they could get the Big Boy running and the track they run on now could handle it. Imagine the sight of that!! On another note on History channels Modern Marvels this week they did a program on lost marvels. Topping the list: Penn Station New York also on the list the Pullman car and for you Roller coaster fans. Coney Island when it had three big amusement parks. There was a lot of good footage of Penn station and for the pullman car they showed almost all Broadway Limited film including a couple of T1 shots Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] HO to N Jerry, I too have made the leap from HO to N. I've been collecting HO stuff since I was in my teens. I still have my first train set. A Tyco " Spirit of 76 " I can understand your reluctance to change. I ran into the same problem your facing, space. A 4 track mainline in HO would almost require a small building and forget a zero track. Yards and sidings would be small and short. The drawback to N I have found is certain kinds of equipment. If your into steam good luck, unless your a scratchbuilder or can afford brass. You may want to try what I did to get a feel for N. Pick up a couple of inexpensive building kits and have at it. I've also repainted and decaled rolling stock with good results. I'm now working on my first scratchbuilt structure,the roundhouse at Conemaugh. If that come out OK I think I'm going to tackle " AO " Tower. May the N-force be with you ! --------------------------------Mark L .----------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K-4s Restoration Chris, You mean the first restoration in 1985 was poor ? Then I'll agree,it was hurried.The current restoration seems top notch ! A new backplate, cut drive wheels, New tin. The only thing in question is the riveting of the steam dome. At any rate this restoration is better than the one in Altoona in 1985. Now who has the original bell ????????? ��When completed 1361 will return to Altoona. Look for it at Railfest 2001 !! Life Time Member #7217 Railroaders Memorial Museum. ----------------�Mark�L.----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:43:21 -0400 Hello All; I ended up making a transitio in the opposite direction while I was a resident studying at a hospital near Philadelphia. The owner of the hobby shop that I would frequent in Norristown convinced me to try some of Bob Weaver's Quality Craft Kits, since I was forever buying Cal-Scale parts to work on Bowser engines. I did, I got hookes, and made the transition to O Scale, from modeling the Pennsy main line, to an fictional brance of the Buffalo Division. BTW--My grandfather was the operator-telegrapher at Tower DF in Driftwood. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 12:43 PM Subject: [PRR] HO to N > Jerry, I too have made the leap from HO to N. I've been collecting HO > stuff since I was in my teens. I still have my first train set. A Tyco " > Spirit of 76 " I can understand your reluctance to change. > > I ran into the same problem your facing, space. A 4 track mainline in > HO would almost require a small building and forget a zero track. Yards > and sidings would be small and short. > > The drawback to N I have found is certain kinds of equipment. If your > into steam good luck, unless your a scratchbuilder or can afford brass. > > You may want to try what I did to get a feel for N. Pick up a couple > of inexpensive building kits and have at it. I've also repainted and > decaled rolling stock with good results. I'm now working on my first > scratchbuilt structure,the roundhouse at Conemaugh. If that come out OK > I think I'm going to tackle " AO " Tower. May the N-force be with you ! > --------------------------------Mark L .----------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:55:00 -0400 Apologies for the spelling, we are having our data line worked on and things are getting here a bit scrambled, and probably leaving the same way Mike Tronetti Lake Shore Railway Historical Society ----- Original Message ----- From: "m mcm" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N > Hello All; > I ended up making a transitio in the opposite direction while I was a > resident studying at a hospital near Philadelphia. The owner of the hobby > shop that I would frequent in Norristown convinced me to try some of Bob > Weaver's Quality Craft Kits, since I was forever buying Cal-Scale parts to > work on Bowser engines. I did, I got hookes, and made the transition to O > Scale, from modeling the Pennsy main line, to an fictional brance of the > Buffalo Division. > BTW--My grandfather was the operator-telegrapher at Tower DF in Driftwood. > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Lehman" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 12:43 PM > Subject: [PRR] HO to N > > > > Jerry, I too have made the leap from HO to N. I've been collecting HO > > stuff since I was in my teens. I still have my first train set. A Tyco " > > Spirit of 76 " I can understand your reluctance to change. > > > > I ran into the same problem your facing, space. A 4 track mainline in > > HO would almost require a small building and forget a zero track. Yards > > and sidings would be small and short. > > > > The drawback to N I have found is certain kinds of equipment. If your > > into steam good luck, unless your a scratchbuilder or can afford brass. > > > > You may want to try what I did to get a feel for N. Pick up a couple > > of inexpensive building kits and have at it. I've also repainted and > > decaled rolling stock with good results. I'm now working on my first > > scratchbuilt structure,the roundhouse at Conemaugh. If that come out OK > > I think I'm going to tackle " AO " Tower. May the N-force be with you ! > > --------------------------------Mark L .----------- > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K-4s Restoration Mark, What was that old rumor of the K4 1361 Bell? I heard years ago it was stolen by a lady? Virtually imnpossible! After I purchased my Bell from K4 #5389, I find that hard to believe it was stolen by 1 individual. This Bell weighs about 275 lbs. I have to take it apart to move it around, and I still struggle wth it. If that Bell was stolen while on the loco at the curve it would have taken a number of people to pull it off. If it was dropped from atop the loco I am sure it has some sign of damage now. Just my 1 cents worth....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:46:44 -0700 Mark Lehman writes: > The drawback to N I have found is certain kinds of equipment. If your > into steam good luck, unless your a scratchbuilder or can afford brass. >From what I've seen every time I ponder N scale, lots of stuff isn't available even in brass. In HO brass, there are damn few prototypes on major RRs that have NEVER been done. In N? Most haven't been done yet, and most of the brass locomotives available are diesels -- because most steam fans wouldn't have gone into N in the first place. It's a vicious circle. If you model SP or UP, you could model the late steam era -- Key seem to have imported brass models of enough SP or UP locomotives to get by -- but more or less any other road will be tough. Scratchbuild? Probably ultimately no harder in N than any other scale, now that there are many useable micromotors, but there seems to be less available in terms of ready-made components to work with than in HO. Wheels and suchlike. I think the only PRR choice would to be to model early diesel era and have the odd 'surviving' steam locomotive. I guess the flip side of this, though, is that there is less of a chance of blowing a fortune on brass steam in N ;) The problem I always have with HO is that it's an awkward compromise -- the trains aren't large enough to really appreciate the true bulk of the real thing, but they are still too big to fit easily in a reasonable space! I want the heft and bulk of O but the space-efficiency of N -- and it keeps nagging at me that maybe I ought to just compromise ONE thing rather than half of both. Does that make sense to anyone? -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] 1361 Bell Gary,list. There are several roomers to what happened to the bell. Everything from a MOW crew to yes, A little old lady. I can't imagen a woman humping up all those stairs hopping the fence,removing the bell then carrying it back down. I've even heard that vandals removed it for scrap ( GASP!!!!) Since the bell was removed with little to no damage and considering the weight there must have been more than one person involved. I'm certain the bell is in somebodies collection. It may turn up in a yard sale someday. One last roomer you all may be interested in. One person did remove the bell and tried to roll it down over the side of the curve only to loose it. It still maybe laying there keep your eyes open next time you visit.--Mark L .------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? I took a trip to Strasburg last week to take photos of the L-1. There was a Demonstration on automatic stokers. I followed the demo up to the point were the coal was dropped on the pan in the back of the fire box. Then he said the coal was blown into the firebox with steam. I thought it was done with compressed air. Anyone know??? Also checked out the M1b , Impressive. Anyone know what the differences are between the M1a and the M1b??????? ----------------Mark L .--------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:23:53 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Starting a K4 All the talk of resurrecting 1361 got me to wondering. How do you fire up an empty, cold, new steam engine. It takes steam to operate the injectors to fill the boiler! You can't light off the fire until there's water over the crown sheet. You can't just flood the injectors and let gravity do the rest because the crown sheet is higher than the top of the tender tank. Do they "borrow" steam from some other source to run the injectors to fill the boiler? Is there a fill hatch on the top of the boiler so they can fill it up from a spout on a water tank? Do they back it up the caboose blister track to get the tender higher than the crown sheet? ;-) -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "m mcm" Subject: [PRR] NS-PRR symbol on engines Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:52:58 -0400 I have seen the interlocked PRR symbol, without the keystone, on NS engines of Conrail ancestry. It is a delight to see it again on a locomotive, In any form. Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR 60+ foot flat car (Was: Fire fighting train) Someone was wondering about the basic flat car. Said it looked to him like it was 60' long or so. See: http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html Select Flat Cars, then select class F31A. 62' 6" flat car (F31 is the same thing with brackets for containers.) ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Steam locomotive start up Andy, Thats a Great question. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] Starting a K4 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:58:31 -0700 > All the talk of resurrecting 1361 got me to wondering. How do you fire > up an empty, cold, new steam engine. It takes steam to operate the > injectors to fill the boiler! You can't light off the fire until > there's water over the crown sheet. You can't just flood the injectors > and let gravity do the rest because the crown sheet is higher than the > top of the tender tank. Do they "borrow" steam from some other source > to run the injectors to fill the boiler? Is there a fill hatch on the > top of the boiler so they can fill it up from a spout on a water tank? > Do they back it up the caboose blister track to get the tender higher > than the crown sheet? ;-) In Phil Jern's rather well known piece 'How to boot a steam locomotive' (http://sdrm.org/faqs/hostling.html) he describes filling the boiler with a fire hose. I'd imagine something similar is standard practice. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:10:56 -0500 From: Greg Johnson Subject: [PRR] HO to N Jerry, I can speak from experience on large N scale and HO scale layouts. I was in N scale for 25 years. My N scale "Arkansas Division" layout was featured in the 1993 edition of Great Model Railroads. My current layout, the HO scale "Allegheny Terminal", can be found in Keystone Crossings. The biggest problem you will have is with steam-era equipment. The brass steam that is out there is beautiful, but I would never subject it to long-term heavy operations. The diesels on the other hand look great and run fantastic, and many of them can be had with DCC decoders already installed. However, many of the older diesels require considerable frame carving to install decoders. Track work goes very fast in N scale and the Peco "code 55" track looks very good when painted and ballasted. I highly recommend the Peco turnouts, they are almost bullet-proof. My N scale layout had minimum radius curves of 24", which I would also recommend. 30" would even be better in visible areas. You have to a lot more careful with sub-roadbed in N scale, because slight dips in roadbed elevation are quite noticeable. As for cars, Micro-Trains has a huge assortment. Even some of the out-of-production cars can be had fairly reasonably. And of course the Micro-Trains cars look great. Structure building is not difficult in N scale, because the smaller size lets your imagination fill in some of the minute details. The obvious advantage of N scale is the higher scenery to trackage ratio that can be obtained in a given space. With what you are planning, I think N scale is an excellent choice. I would recommend that you at least start out by modeling the 60's era to take advantage of the abundance of excellent diesels. Load up on E-8's, geeps and F units and start rolling those 20-40 car freights! Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:20:17 -0700 Mark Lehman writes: \> I took a trip to Strasburg last week to take photos of the L-1. There > was a Demonstration on automatic stokers. I followed the demo up to the > point were the coal was dropped on the pan in the back of the fire box. > Then he said the coal was blown into the firebox with steam. I thought > it was done with compressed air. Anyone know??? I'd always heard it described as steam, which makes sense -- steam is the easiest source of power on a steam locomotive. > Also checked out the M1b , Impressive. Anyone know what the differences > are between the M1a and the M1b??????? The NE Rails PRR Steam Roster (http://www.northeast.railfan.net//prr_steam1.html) says '38 Converted from M1a, 270 lb. Steam Pressure'. The PRR Form 109-K, Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders (available at Keystone Crossings, http://kc.pennsyrr.com/)) agrees with this, the only difference in the specifications being the boiler pressure (270lb versus 250lb) and the comment 'Circulators'. Not having a better reference to hand, this sounds right to me. -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] NS_PRR symbols Mike, Tune your radio 160.800 and you can hear the dispatchers using PRR #s to identify trains---------Mark L .------------- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:31:03 -0400 Hello: I've been modeling the Pennsy in N since 1968. It has advantages and disadvantages. For example, speaking of steam , more models of PRR steam have been made in N scale than those of any other railroad (A3 0-4-0, Bachmann--B6sb 0-6-0, Minitrix--K4s 4-6-2, Minitrix--I1s 2-10-0, Minitrix in metal and plastic "mass produced"). In brass, H8, H9, H10, I1(4 versions), K4 (6 versions), M1 (2 versions), T1 (4 versions), and S1 have all been produced and sold out almost immediately. A beautiful L1s can be made with Kato's 2-8-2 and GHQ's kit. PRR specific boxcars (X29, X31, X31a, X32) are available from Fine N Scale, Micro-Trains (X32) and Red Caboose (X29). In passenger cars, older P70's and PBM70's, as well as the "View" tail car are specific PRR cars available. Trainphone antennae were a surmountable difficulty until Loren Perry of Gold Medal began producing photoetched antenna mounts in N. Unless you are the type that has to have cab and caboose windows that open and tie plates inder your ties, I think one can enjoy modeling "The Standard Railroad of the World" more in N scale. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 12:43 PM Subject: [PRR] HO to N > Jerry, I too have made the leap from HO to N. I've been collecting HO > stuff since I was in my teens. I still have my first train set. A Tyco " > Spirit of 76 " I can understand your reluctance to change. > > I ran into the same problem your facing, space. A 4 track mainline in > HO would almost require a small building and forget a zero track. Yards > and sidings would be small and short. > > The drawback to N I have found is certain kinds of equipment. If your > into steam good luck, unless your a scratchbuilder or can afford brass. > > You may want to try what I did to get a feel for N. Pick up a couple > of inexpensive building kits and have at it. I've also repainted and > decaled rolling stock with good results. I'm now working on my first > scratchbuilt structure,the roundhouse at Conemaugh. If that come out OK > I think I'm going to tackle " AO " Tower. May the N-force be with you ! > --------------------------------Mark L .----------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] N-scale Matt, I agree . Even in brass the choices are limited. Scratchbuilding without a machine shop would be impossible. There are some prospects on the horizon from GHQ. There L-1 conversion kit for the Kato " Mikado" is superb. Other manufactures are taking note of the growing popularity of N-scale. To bad TT gauge never caught on. -------------Mark�L�.------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:00:04 -0400 Mark: If you think about it, the air compressor could not keep up with blowing coal into the firebox and keeping the train line charged. The air compressor on a locomotive is not intended to run continuously. Superheated steam works very well and hopefully there is an adequate supply of that! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:18 PM Subject: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? > I took a trip to Strasburg last week to take photos of the L-1. There > was a Demonstration on automatic stokers. I followed the demo up to the > point were the coal was dropped on the pan in the back of the fire box. > Then he said the coal was blown into the firebox with steam. I thought > it was done with compressed air. Anyone know??? > > Also checked out the M1b , Impressive. Anyone know what the differences > are between the M1a and the M1b??????? > ----------------Mark L .--------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:02:22 -0700 Gregg Mahlkov writes: > For example, speaking of steam , more models of PRR steam have been made in > N scale than those of any other railroad (A3 0-4-0, Bachmann--B6sb 0-6-0, > Minitrix--K4s 4-6-2, Minitrix--I1s 2-10-0, Minitrix in metal and plastic > "mass produced"). In brass, H8, H9, H10, I1(4 versions), K4 (6 versions), M1 > (2 versions), T1 (4 versions), and S1 have all been produced and sold out > almost immediately. That must be the problem, then -- I pretty much never see any for sale, so I didn't think there were any. Everyone that has one must not be parting with it! -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Starting a K4 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:09:04 -0400 Andy: You set me to wondering about this too. But, when a steam locomotive has its fire extinguished, it already has water over the crown sheet, so starting another fire hours, days, or even weeks later would not be a problem. But, a new locomotive, or one that had major boiler work, would not be full of water. On the other hand, a new locomotive or one coming out of major boiler work would be at a highly equipped backshop, so I suspect charging the boiler for the first time with adequate hot water and or steam was not a problem at that location. Does anyone know exactly what procedure was used? Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Miller" To: "PRR" Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:23 PM Subject: [PRR] Starting a K4 > All the talk of resurrecting 1361 got me to wondering. How do you fire > up an empty, cold, new steam engine. It takes steam to operate the > injectors to fill the boiler! You can't light off the fire until > there's water over the crown sheet. You can't just flood the injectors > and let gravity do the rest because the crown sheet is higher than the > top of the tender tank. Do they "borrow" steam from some other source > to run the injectors to fill the boiler? Is there a fill hatch on the > top of the boiler so they can fill it up from a spout on a water tank? > Do they back it up the caboose blister track to get the tender higher > than the crown sheet? ;-) > -- > Regards, > > Andy Miller > asmiller@mitre.org > > =================================================== > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: [PRR] My first brass Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:10:51 -0500 Hello, I recently purchased my first brass piece, a Sunset factory painted B6sb. So far, I've installed Kadee couplers and ran it a bit. I purchased this loco to run, and before I run it too much I'd like to ask a few questions. Should I do any lubrication? Are there any other break in procedures I should do? I've often seen brass locos advertised with "worn wheels" in the description. What is the definition of "worn wheels"? Is this just evidence that the model has been run as opposed to just displayed, or is there actual evidence of wear? How much operation does a loco have to have before it qualifies as having worn wheels? Don't worry, I plan to enjoy my loco and operate it, worn wheels or not. Thanks, Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:10:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N In a message dated 8/18/00 2:00:13 PM Central Daylight Time, morven@byz.org writes: << I want the heft and bulk of O but the space-efficiency of N -- and it keeps nagging at me that maybe I ought to just compromise ONE thing rather than half of both. Does that make sense to anyone? >> Absolutely. When I briefly shifted to modern Conrail, one visit to the Curve convinced me I should do Altoona to Gallitzen in N-scale Conrail--mountain railroading with helpers! OTOH, I have also considered (before apartment living) buying a few S or O scale PRR locos and doing a branch with sound, the works. Currently, I am planning a PRR switching layout in HO, looking to settle on a prototype somewhere in the West. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:22:01 -0400 Matt: If you're interested, Rio Grande Hobbies has photos of an N scale T1 by Key on their website http://www.riograndehobbies.com . There will be multiple versions again. Reservations are also being taken for H8, H9, and H10 2-8-0's. But, prices are astronomical. (and they'll still sell out quick) Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Brown" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N > Gregg Mahlkov writes: > > > For example, speaking of steam , more models of PRR steam have been made > in > > N scale than those of any other railroad (A3 0-4-0, Bachmann--B6sb 0-6-0, > > Minitrix--K4s 4-6-2, Minitrix--I1s 2-10-0, Minitrix in metal and plastic > > "mass produced"). In brass, H8, H9, H10, I1(4 versions), K4 (6 versions), > M1 > > (2 versions), T1 (4 versions), and S1 have all been produced and sold out > > almost immediately. > > That must be the problem, then -- I pretty much never see any for sale, so I > didn't think there were any. Everyone that has one must not be parting with > it! > > -Matt > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] Howdy ! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:20:39 +0100 Joe, Looking forward to seeing the progress of your model. I think a number of us on the list have Bowser T1 projects in one form or another. Mine's a hybrid brass chassis and tender (GEM) with the new Bowser T1 body casting. The difficult part has been milling all the unnecessary casting away to get a scale appearance. Bowser do like their tons of metal. If there's ever a world shortage of casting zinc we know who to blame, don't we? Hope to get back to this model soon and get it finished. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L To: Sent: 16 August 2000 19:00 Subject: [PRR] Howdy ! > Hello everybody. I just recently subscribed to the list and would like > to introduce myself. I'm currently in the Marine Corps and living in Fort > Worth TX. I grew up in West Chester PA, and was a frequent visitor to the > Withford train station which was only a few miles from the house. Whenever > I get homesick, I drive to Dallas and visit the GG-1 at the Age of Steam RR > Museum. I'm only 26, but I do remember when the main line was four shiny > tracks and were ruled by GG-1's, E-44's, and some GP's and SD's painted in > PC with a very few still lettered in PRR. My fondest memories were watching > the freights on the Trenton cut-off crossing the big trestle and shaking it. > It would shake for ten minutes after the train had passed. I do a lot of > modeling, mostly HO scale. I've done a few Bowser kits, collected some > brass pieces, and detailed plastics. My next big project is to tackle > Bowsers T-1. I'm in the process of collecting prototype pictures and plan > on detailing it the most I can. I also plan on upgrading the drive > mechanism and install directional lights. I'm developing a PRR modeling > website and plan on posting the T-1 project as it progresses. Well that's > enough rambling for now. Talk to you all later. > > Joe Hildenbrand > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:26:57 EDT Subject: [PRR] M1a vs. M1b (was Steam or compressed air??) In a message dated 8/18/00 3:33:07 PM Central Daylight Time, morven@byz.org writes: << The NE Rails PRR Steam Roster (http://www.northeast.railfan.net//prr_steam1.html) says '38 Converted from M1a, 270 lb. Steam Pressure'. The PRR Form 109-K, Classification and Description of Locomotives and Tenders (available at Keystone Crossings, http://kc.pennsyrr.com/)) agrees with this, the only difference in the specifications being the boiler pressure (270lb versus 250lb) and the comment 'Circulators'. >> NJ International Classic Power 8 M1 Dual Service Mountains by Bert Pennypacker confirms reboilering and upgrading of 40 M1a from 1945 to 1953. New boilers had increased steam pressure of 270 lbs., fireboxes contained water circulators which increased heating surface by 35 sq. ft. Text says tractive force increased from 64550 to 69,700 pounds, but table (may have a typo) says M1b was the same as M1a. Factor of adhesion dropped from 4.19 to 3.89. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Minitrix K-4 I-1 Matt , You can still get your hands on the Trix K-4 and I-1's. new. My local hobby shop has a K-4 right now for 110 $. ---------------------------Mark L .----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] Minitrix K-4 I-1 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:49:01 -0700 Mark Lehman writes: > Matt , You can still get your hands on the Trix K-4 and I-1's. new. My > local hobby shop has a K-4 right now for 110 $. I'd heard they were rather inaccurate though -- being based on the chassis of european prototype locomotives rather than being wholly new products. Am I wrong? -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:54:24 -0700 Greg Mahlkov writes: > If you're interested, Rio Grande Hobbies has photos of an N scale T1 by Key > on their website http://www.riograndehobbies.com . There will be multiple > versions again. Reservations are also being taken for H8, H9, and H10 > 2-8-0's. But, prices are astronomical. (and they'll still sell out quick) But the fact that they're available is good, even so. Makes me consider going to N a bit more seriously. Those prices are still way under new brass prices for HO (something like a T1 would check in at about $1200 plus). On the other hand, the reduction in price is less than the reduction in size! Also one has to remind oneself that even the cheapest way of getting a T1, the Bowser kit in HO, is over $200 ... then the Alco Helix Humper repowering kit bumps it up to $300 ... and then if you want to do any extra detailing ... parts and tools and paint and decals ... you're probably talking $400. Plus a LOT of work if you are at all perfectionist! I remember once on (somewhere, I forget -- rec.models.railroad?) people were talking about brass prices and I think it was Andy Harman pointed out that if you're doing the whole Prototype Modelling thing, getting all the details right, you're spending nearly as much money as a brass locomotive would cost. It just *feels* cheaper! because you're not writing one check with a big number on it, but a dozen smaller ones. It just isn't cheap whichever way you go, is it? -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:57:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Howdy ! In a message dated 8/18/00 4:45:40 PM Central Daylight Time, johnhwright@xclent.clara.co.uk writes: << The difficult part has been milling all the unnecessary casting away to get a scale appearance. Bowser do like their tons of metal. >> John, where are you making most of the cuts, besides the front cab window area? I put mine away to work on other projects and don't feel like a search in the apartment storage locker. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] My first brass Andy, list, Worn wheels can mean that there are flat spots on the wheels (sometimes brass owners push their models back and forth on a piece of track without power). This is pretty rare, though (and I'm sure that everyone else on the list buys their brass to run, so none of us are guilty of this egregious sin....). Worn wheels can also mean that the nickel silver plating has worn off to reveal the brass beneath, which is more of an appearance and conductivity issue. Nickel silver stays cleaner and conducts better than brass does. Meanwhile, my brass is packed away, pending my move (both engines are in nicely padded boxes to ensure their health). Doug --- Andy Cich wrote: > Hello, > I recently purchased my first brass piece, a > Sunset factory painted > B6sb. So far, I've installed Kadee couplers and ran > it a bit. > > I purchased this loco to run, and before I run it > too much I'd like to ask a > few questions. Should I do any lubrication? Are > there any other break in > procedures I should do? > > I've often seen brass locos advertised with "worn > wheels" in the > description. What is the definition of "worn > wheels"? Is this just > evidence that the model has been run as opposed to > just displayed, or is > there actual evidence of wear? How much operation > does a loco have to have > before it qualifies as having worn wheels? > > Don't worry, I plan to enjoy my loco and operate it, > worn wheels or not. > > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] FW: HO to N Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:59:27 -0400 Jerry and list, Have no trouble w/ N scale, however, based on what you posted a few days ago regarding the size of your undertaking you have got to take into account the models maintainability and the time required to keep it operating - cleaning track, adjusting switches, etc. I have compressed 60 miles of the E&P branch into 2.5 scale miles w/ one 6 track yard, a 4 track yard and several industrial sidings - maintenance is a problem. BTW in one of the posts, same subject, I notice someone referring to a track as a 'zero' track - this is not correct it was called the 'naught' or 'nought' track. It may of have been referred to as the 'zero' track in "Triumph I" - however, this was one of the several errors in that book. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] MiniTrix K-4s Matt, Thats the scuttlebutt I here about the K-4. I have not gotten out my micrometer to measure the K-4 or I-1. I have both.They look good and run reasonably well. If GHQ comes out with a detail kit from there L-1 you could make them look even better !----Mark L .--------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] True or False The PRR was operating over 700 air conditioned passenger cars in 1934? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Parksburg freight I noticed in the Parksburg area a few small industries with sidings still in use. If these cars were to be moved west would they travel on the passenger line toward Lancaster or to the East on to the Trenton cutoff to Norristown then West on the old Reading Line? I never see any freight train running on the Main line. Was The Trenton cutoff electrified ? ------------Mark L .------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 18:17:32 -0700 Mark, Steam did the trick. The problem with using compressed air is that you run the very real risk of depleting the air reservoir and setting the brakes. You don't have this problem with steam. Differences between an M1a and an M1b are totally internal. I can't find my M1 book but if I recall correctly that "b" had larger valves and had circulators installed in the firebox. All of the "b"s were converted from "a"s. Bill Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Lehman To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 12:18 PM Subject: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? > I took a trip to Strasburg last week to take photos of the L-1. There > was a Demonstration on automatic stokers. I followed the demo up to the > point were the coal was dropped on the pan in the back of the fire box. > Then he said the coal was blown into the firebox with steam. I thought > it was done with compressed air. Anyone know??? > > Also checked out the M1b , Impressive. Anyone know what the differences > are between the M1a and the M1b??????? > ----------------Mark L .--------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Parksburg freight Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:37:43 -0400 Mark: I don't know how NS currently operates locals in that area, but the Trenton Cutoff was definitely electrified, with the catenary higher than on lines with suburban MU service. In the early '50's, rode a fan trip out of New York to Enola that used the Trenton Cutoff. With the higher contact wire, the pans on the MP-54's used were at the end of their reach and one snagged the catenary, tearing down several hundred feet and halting electric service on the Cutoff. We sat for 4 hours before a Baldwin yard switcher from Thorndale came for us. We had delayed a stock train heading East and it had priority over an extra passenger move. We didn't get to Enola until sunset! Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lehman" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 8:31 PM Subject: [PRR] Parksburg freight > I noticed in the Parksburg area a few small industries with sidings > still in use. If these cars were to be moved west would they travel on > the passenger line toward Lancaster or to the East on to the Trenton > cutoff to Norristown then West on the old Reading Line? I never see any > freight train running on the Main line. Was The Trenton cutoff > electrified ? > ------------Mark L .------------------------------ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] Black Gold - Blsck Diamonds Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:57:13 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE_01C009D4.9CCA6340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have just been reading Black Gold - Black Daimonds by Eic Hirsaminski, = I found it very interesting especially the comments on locomotives that = the PRR looked at purchasing. Imagine a Belpair boilered Big Boy WOW. = The proposed coal burning Turbines were equally interesting I wonder = were we would be today if they had been built. Would we have lots of = third generation turbines running or would they be relegated to History = like all th other odd ball Loco's the "Standard" built.=20 Comments anyone. Being a confirmed "electric loco" nut I was fascinated by the concerpt = of the "Super GG1" and the "RR2" locomotives. Does anyone have any more = info on these. I have often thought of building a model of "Horseshoe = Curve" after the proposed electrification of this section of the line = was completed. One comment on the production of this book. The proof reading was = atrocious I just hope the Detail of the book was researched better than = the production (I don't want this to seem in any way to be criticism of = the author), I am sure it was well done and a labour of love. I just = hope volume 2 is as interesting as volume 1 but just produced better.=20 Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE_01C009D4.9CCA6340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have just been reading Black Gold - = Black=20 Daimonds by Eic Hirsaminski, I found it very interesting especially the = comments=20 on locomotives that the PRR looked at purchasing. Imagine a Belpair = boilered Big Boy WOW. The proposed coal burning Turbines were equally=20 interesting I wonder were we would be today if they had been built. = Would we=20 have lots of third generation turbines running or would they be = relegated to=20 History like all th other odd ball Loco's the "Standard" built. =

Comments anyone.

Being a confirmed "electric loco" nut I = was=20 fascinated by the concerpt of the "Super GG1" and the "RR2" locomotives. = Does=20 anyone have any more info on these. I have often thought of building a = model of=20 "Horseshoe Curve" after the proposed electrification of this section of = the line=20 was completed.

One comment on the production of this = book. The=20 proof reading was atrocious I just hope the Detail of the book was = researched=20 better than the production (I don't want this to seem in any way to be = criticism=20 of the author), I am sure it was well done and a labour of love. I just = hope=20 volume 2 is as interesting as volume 1 but just produced better.=20

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.
------=_NextPart_000_01BE_01C009D4.9CCA6340-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:41:32 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] True or False Greetings to Mark and the list: True. PRR was operating "approximately 700" air-conditioned Pullmans, diners, and coaches. Source: PRR 1934 Annual Report, p. 7. PRR used three types of a/c: ice-activated, mechanical compression, and steam jet. One may argue whether the ice-activated system was truly air conditioning as we recognize it today (blocks of ice loaded on a car, with air circulated over them and through a duct system into the car) , but PRR considered it to be such and counted it as such in the total. Source: undated 1930s PRR brochure "The Inside Story of Air-Conditioning on the largest fleet of air-conditioned trains in the world." Note that it was important for PRR to boast that it had the largest a/c fleet, since it definitely wasn't the first (B&O was first, installing air-conditioning on a dining car). Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com John 3:16 Mark Lehman wrote: > The PRR was operating over 700 air conditioned passenger cars in 1934? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:44:45 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Passenger Modeling (esp. N scalers!) [PRR] Jerry Britton wrote on 8/15/00 2:50 pm: >I've updated the list of "suggested" models in the >Passenger Operations section of "Keystone >Crossings"... > >http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/sug_models.html > >I've also added a column of models in N scale!!! There >aren't many, so help me fill in the blanks, please. > >One lister, whose name I shall protect at the moment, >already contacted me about B-60B's. Oh, let us at him! >Also, Rivarossi sells their packs of cars in PRR livery. >One pack has three "1930's Roomette" cars. Are these >accurate sides as their HO scale counterparts are? If >so, these would be the PS106 10-6 RAPIDS cars. It's an excellent model of the ACF Rapids cars (Huron, Catawissa, etc). > What about the "1930's Observation"? Is it accurate >for the Broadway's VIEW car as the HO version is? It's a dead-on Tower/Mountain View, bashable into the Atterbury, Rea, etc. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:55:27 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Starting a K4 In a message dated 8/18/00 2:43:44 PM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << All the talk of resurrecting 1361 got me to wondering. How do you fire up an empty, cold, new steam engine. >> I asked Don Dailey, an ex-NKP engineer and hostler, that question. Don has answered several questions about steam locomotive servicing on the LDSIG/OPSIG list and was an advisor to Tony Koester on his new NKP Third sub layout. His response follows: < Subject: Re: [PRR] Howdy ! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 07:09:54 +0100 Bob, I am still pondering about the huge chunks of metal around the cab windows as it appears to almost inaccessible. what I thought I'd do with that is to paint the interior very dark grey and fully glaze the windows. I think the thickness of the casting would then cease to become noticeable at 'normal' viewing distance. I have milled away about half a ton of metal in the fairing underneath and on the front footsteps. And then I've made a cosmetic base to the boiler which is visible below the footplate area. I can do this because the loco is not using the Bowser chassis. I think it will look O.K. when complete. I'll post some photos, like Joe. I can also do some pictures by placing the model on the scanner, if you want me to. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 18 August 2000 22:57 Subject: Re: [PRR] Howdy ! > In a message dated 8/18/00 4:45:40 PM Central Daylight Time, > johnhwright@xclent.clara.co.uk writes: > > << The difficult part has been milling all the unnecessary casting away to > get > a > scale appearance. Bowser do like their tons of metal. >> > > John, where are you making most of the cuts, besides the front cab window > area? > I put mine away to work on other projects and don't feel like a search in the > apartment storage locker. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:10:00 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] True or False (Air Conditioning) From: "Doug and Marianne" An interesting note on the PRR air conditioning discussion is that in 1930 the PRR was advertising that "cool mountain air brings restful sleep" (Saturday Evening Post, June 28, 1930). They were not advertising air conditioning here, but the cool mountain air of "the wooded passes of the Appalachians." This was obviously a poke at the NYC Water Level Route that traversed the warmer lowlands. Since no air conditioning was mentioned in the magazine ad, there were probably few or no air conditioned cars in 1930. The 700 air conditioned cars that were mentioned in the 1934 Annual Report were probably added after 1930. -- Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA babal@slip.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:25:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N From: "Doug and Marianne" Jerry and Crew: Modeling N scale PRR steam era does present somewhat more of a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. Several PRR steam engines have been done in brass and the GHQ conversion kit for the Kato Mikado is about as fine a model (and runner) as any steam model in any scale. There is a whole group of modelers that remotor and kitbash many of the models that are not available or do not run well. If you have seen the Reid brothers' layout you know that you can have a very impressive N scale layout that includes PRR steam. Here is a brief list of PRR steam engines that have been produced. Some of the brass engines can be very hard to find, but they are out there: B-6 0-6-0: Minitrix, a fair runner but can be improved by remotoring and regearing as Claus has done with his. H-9/H-10: Key brass. A USRA 2-8-0 is being done by Bachman and perhaps GHQ will have a PRR conversion kit for it. L-1 2-8-2: Kato Mikado with GHQ PRR conversion kit. I-1 2-10-0: Key Brass/ Minitrix - needs remotoring and regearing (Claus again) G-5 4-6-0: Has been kitbashed with tender drive by the Starman brothers E-6 4-4-2: Produced in Brass by Black River (very hard to find) K-4 4-6-2: Minitrix, can be improved by remotoring. Precision Scale brass in several versions. M-1 4-8-2: Key brass in several versions. S-1 6-4-4-6: Sunset? brass. T-1 4-4-4-4: Previously produced in brass by Key?. Key has new brass T-1's this fall in four versions. Photos of my PRR N scale layout including steam: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=637118&a=4647088 Good luck with your decision Jerry. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] True or False Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 06:56:49 -0700 Dan and all, Down here in the Southwest where the humidity often is measured in one digit, we have many examples of a similar type of air conditioning, evaporative cooling. It works similarly to ice activated in that air is drawn through pads saturated with water. The evaporation of the water cools the air significantly. Only problem is during the rainy season (usually July through August) the humidity is too high for it to work. You have to remember that ice acitvation was the first practical method of cooling, since before it came into widespread use, the norm was open windows in passenger cars. Not everyone appreciated the double-headed K4s's in front, with their attendent cinders and soot. Especially in the summer! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:57:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Black Gold - Blsck Diamonds Hi Graeme. I agree with your comments on Black Gold-Black Diamonds, v.1. The proofreading was atrocious. I just finished "indexing" the book for the PRR on-line steam database project. I proofed it with a magnifying glass handy, as I found that many photo captions were incorrect. Many had the wrong road number (did not match the road numbers on the loco visible in the photo), and in many cases the location on the page cited by the caption was not where the photo was actually located on the page. The index I submitted to Jerry has corrective notes in the comments section, pointing out the typos. Like you, I hope vol. 2 is better proofed... Jim Anderson Thorndale, PA sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 07:59:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Bill, Mark, list, Bill Daniels wrote > > Differences between an M1a and an M1b are totally > internal. This is almost, but not quite correct. I can't take credit for this; Don Harper pointed this out some months back. In the firebox area of the M1b class near the running boards you can see what look like large washout plugs; these mark the locations of the circulators. Now, to scrape together the money for an M1b of my own... Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:02:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N From: Jerry Britton On 8/18/00 5:22 PM, Gregg Mahlkov at (mahlkov@gtcom.net) wrote: > If you're interested, Rio Grande Hobbies has photos of an N scale T1 by Key > on their website http://www.riograndehobbies.com . There will be multiple > versions again. Reservations are also being taken for H8, H9, and H10 > 2-8-0's. But, prices are astronomical. (and they'll still sell out quick) > Info for the masses: I spoke with my rep at Key yesterday, all T1 units are fully reserved at their end, so dealers can no longer submit orders. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:11:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? The most obvious difference between the M-1a and M-1b is the cylinder saddle. There are no exposed steam supply pipes on an M-1b. Check "Classic Power No. 8" for photos. Ray Burghart A SPF for over 50 years ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:29:04 -0400 >The most obvious difference between the M-1a and M-1b is the cylinder saddle. >There are no exposed steam supply pipes on an M-1b. Check "Classic Power No. >8" for photos. > >Ray Burghart >A SPF for over 50 years Ray, I believe both the M1a and M1b have internal steam delivery systems. It is the M1 that has the external, exposed pipes. Jerry Breon PRRT&HS #3230 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:41:39 -0400 I always thought the cylinder saddle was the difference between M1 and M1a. The M1b's had circulators added to the firebox, bringing them up to the equivalent of other roads' most modern 4-8-4's in power and efficiency with the Belpaire firebox. Gregg Mahlkov . ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? > The most obvious difference between the M-1a and M-1b is the cylinder saddle. > There are no exposed steam supply pipes on an M-1b. Check "Classic Power No. > 8" for photos. > > Ray Burghart > A SPF for over 50 years > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. I Live not 25 miles from the mainline in the Norristown area. My R.R. scanner is on all the time. I never here any Freight train radio traffic only the local commuter and Amtrak trains. Not even a hotbox or drag detector. Yet the RDG line from Phila to Reading is Very active with freight, even trains going down the Trenton cutoff ( Now called the Dale Secondary). Ok now for the dumb question. What line is being used to move freight from the Phila. area to Harrisburg? The X RDG line is very active but nowhere near what I see and hear on the Pittsburgh Div ( West Slope )-------------Mark L .-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] RE - messages from me Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:42:08 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00A8A.E8B95AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Posters, This is an apology. I appear to have picked up a virus in "outlook express" If you recieve a = message from me with an attachment or in fact any message from me = "DELETE IT"=20 Again Sorry for this.=20 I believe all Virus writers should be lined up against the wall and = shot!!!!!! Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 prr@unite.com.au An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00A8A.E8B95AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Posters,

This is an apology.

I appear to have picked up a virus in = "outlook=20 express" If you recieve a message from me with an attachment or in fact = any=20 message from me "DELETE IT"

Again Sorry for=20 this.

I believe all Virus writers should be = lined up=20 against the wall and shot!!!!!!

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
prr@unite.com.au
An Aussie = "Slobbering=20 Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of Reading.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C00A8A.E8B95AC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:34:39 EDT Subject: [PRR] Parksburg Flash I have some photo's that a friend of mine shot of the CR/NS freight local tied up at Lancaster station if anyone is interested. Todd ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] EP-22 (TAN) On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Chany, Christopher wrote: > List, > Just returned from Steamtown where I took the Pacific Parade tour and saw > the K4 which "will be ready in Sept." (The park guides words) which was You too huh? (I was there yesterday) > quickly followed by "what year is another matter" I know that Phil chapter > was hoping to have it at the Rail Museum for PRR days 2001 but to me that > doesn't look like it is going to happen. I think when it is done it will > almost be a new K4 because they are replacing almost everything. It seems > when they rebuilt her they DID NOT take care of all the problems that came > from storage. Yes, it didn't look to be terribly far along to me. I have some pictures on my camera which I'll post as soon as I upload them. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:20:06 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Old postcard scenes on PRR There's a guy in FLA who's selling on eBay old PRR postcards [expensive] from the 1900-20 era from the Curve to Chester, PA. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=buds65%40aol.com&include=0&since=-1&sort=8&rows=0 if this doesn't work, then cut & paste: buds65@aol.com into Seller's User ID on: http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/search_seller.html Interesting to see a lot of old pics. --Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:01:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? In a message dated 8/19/00 3:48:23 PM Central Daylight Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: << I always thought the cylinder saddle was the difference between M1 and M1a. The M1b's had circulators added to the firebox, bringing them up to the equivalent of other roads' most modern 4-8-4's in power and efficiency with the Belpaire firebox. >> Gregg, I believe you are correct , except I would substitute "4-8-2's" for "4-8-4's" in the second sentence. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:31:07 -0400 Bob: I intentionally meant 4-8-4's. With a Belpaire firebox, the heating area of an M1b was equivalent to that of other roads' 4-8-4's not other roads' 4-8-2's. This is why the K5 4-6-2 was more powerful than most 4-6-4's Gregg Mahlkov .----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? > In a message dated 8/19/00 3:48:23 PM Central Daylight Time, > mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: > > << I always thought the cylinder saddle was the difference between M1 and M1a. > The M1b's had circulators added to the firebox, bringing them up to the > equivalent of other roads' most modern 4-8-4's in power and efficiency with > the Belpaire firebox. >> > > Gregg, I believe you are correct , except I would substitute "4-8-2's" for > "4-8-4's" in the second sentence. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:20:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] RE - messages from me From: Jerry Britton On 8/19/00 7:42 PM, Graeme Nitz at (prr@unite.com.au) wrote: > I appear to have picked up a virus in "outlook express" If you recieve a > message from me with an attachment or in fact any message from me "DELETE IT" > This should not affect anyone via "PRR-Talk" as this list does not allow attachments. FYI. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:29:31 -0400 Subject: [PRR] "Working On The Railroad" Exhibit From: Jerry Britton I am forwarding copy about an exhibit coming up this Labor Day weekend in Enola, PA. A professor at the local college worked up a book and video about the history of the Enola Yards as part of Cumberland County's 250th Anniversary. His video, which includes aerial video, will be shown and available for purchase. Among the items on display will be a 1"=100' valuation map of the entire length of the Enola Yards, c/o Craig Bowman and myself. Here's the scoop: "Workin' on the Railroad" video and exhibit highlighting the Enola Yard and Central PA railroading at Central Penn College, one-quarter of a mile west of Routes 11/15 and the Enola Rail Yard, on Labor Day, September 4th (the show will remain up on the 5th, but chiefly for returning students). The public is invited for the Labor Day event, 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Welcoming remarks at 10:30; light refreshments. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:04:32 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam or compressed air?? In a message dated 8/20/00 7:41:04 AM Central Daylight Time, mahlkov@gtcom.net writes: << I intentionally meant 4-8-4's. With a Belpaire firebox, the heating area of an M1b was equivalent to that of other roads' 4-8-4's not other roads' 4-8-2's. This is why the K5 4-6-2 was more powerful than most 4-6-4's >> This discussion might be best carried on on the steamloco list, and by someone more versed than myself in 4-8-4 statistics and what consitutes "power" and "efficiency". For example, the NYC L3 Mohawk 4-8-2 had a close heating surface of 4676 sq ft versus 4733 for the M1b, but a tractive effort of only 60,100 versus 69,700. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:42:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Dan Cupper RU out there? Dan, I've lost your address. Please drop me a line Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:59:20 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Virus From: "Doug and Marianne" > This should not affect anyone via "PRR-Talk" as this list does not allow > attachments. FYI. Jerry: I did received this message with its attachment and I think it was through PRR Talk. It looked very suspicious so I deleted it. It had a message that was something like: "I will get back to you soon. In the meantime check out this attachment." This made no sense for a list posting. The attachment was in an .exe file (self extracting file). Everyone should be very careful before opening attachments, especially if you are not expecting one from the sender. Apparently these can be sent unknowingly, so just knowing the sender is not enough to ensure that it is not a virus. Doug N. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:44:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] M1b (was Steam or compressed air??) Sorry for my last incomplete post. I thought I had put it in "Send Later" after I had time to add more information and accidentally hit "Send Now" Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:04:09 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Antique rail observation and questions Yesterday I was poking around the ex-PRR and ex-B&O (exx-BR&P) yards at Falls Creek, PA. In the B&O yard, I saw a track fitted with 6-bolt splice plates ("Aha", I said, "something old.") Looking at the web of the rails, I found several which were marked: LI&S Co. S. W. SCRANTON 9 95 80.5 D. REGd. 1891 PATd. 1890 PAt. 1892 The letters were actually all capitals. The ones I've put in lower case were small capitals, their tops even with the tops of the other letters, with the period underneath. Driving home, I leaped to several conclusios and came up with: [Made by] Lehigh Iron & Steel Company Steel Works Scranton (or maybe Lehigh Iron & Steel Co. South-West Scranton?) [Rolled during] September 1895 80.5 [pounds/yard] Design Registered 1891 Patent [applied for] 1890 Patent [granted] 1892 The question is, basically, does that hang together? Was there a Lehigh Iron and Steel Co. in Scranton? Leibknecht Iron & Steel? Something else? My idea about the three 1890's dates seems hokey, but why would there be three dates? Anybody have insight into the hoops a patentee had to jump through in the late 19th century? I should add that the rail was 2 to 3 inches smaller than the 131 pound rail on near-by tracks. Thus 80.5 lb/yd seems believable. The transition from the ladder track to the siding was a marvel to behold. All reasoned responses will be appreciated. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail � Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:13:49 -0400 Subject: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! From: Jerry Britton Now I've heard it all...my wife, who refers to us SPF's as "you people", said something yesterday that blew me away... A friend of hers, with family, stopped by yesterday to drop some things off. The husband and three year old son started eyeing my trains. He mentioned that he had seen a caboose during his travels the previous week. Being a "kid at heart", he commented that it would be cool to have a caboose for a kid's playhouse. I mentioned that there was a web site (a few years ago and I no longer have the URL) that had 40+ cabeese and was selling them in the $3-4K range. My wife said, "Why don't we get one?" She reiterated the question this morning. I realize that transportation of such a beast would be a killer, but does anyone know of the site of which I speak? Would like to at least consider the matter further (while I can!). --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:25:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FW: Enola Yard Pictures From: Jerry Britton Below is a forward from the Reading-Talk list... --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ---------- > From: "rick bates" > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:22:48 -0400 > To: > Subject: Enola Yard Pictures > > The item on Reading Talk about the Enola Yard exhibit reminded me of some > Enola construction pictures I found in the Pennsylvania State Archives at > Harrisburg. Coverage included the bridges and flyovers up toward Rockville > Bridge, the original coal dock & trestle, plus construction work at other PRR > locations. The pictures weren't the greatest quality, but they're in a rather > non-obvious location in the Archives, not catalogued or otherwise identified > as PRR. If anyone is interested, the location in the Archive is: > > MG 218, General Photo Collection, Shelf Location 5-0108, Box 5, Charles Nash > Collection. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:34:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Now I've heard it all...my wife, who refers to us SPF's as "you people", > said something yesterday that blew me away... > > A friend of hers, with family, stopped by yesterday to drop some things off. > The husband and three year old son started eyeing my trains. He mentioned > that he had seen a caboose during his travels the previous week. Being a > "kid at heart", he commented that it would be cool to have a caboose for a > kid's playhouse. I almost forgot, I was through Renovo Thursday... there's 1 caboose left there, and as I recall not a PRR caboose. However... I saw a string of cabeese alongside and south of US220 when I was driving between Lock Haven and Williamsport later that day. I assume these is those. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:40:09 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! Jerry, Dealers in cabooses and old passenger cars can usually be found advertising in Trains Magazine. Believe it or not there is still life outside the Internet - an older, more primitive life, but life all the same ;-) -- Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:04:16 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N Matt siad: >Those prices are still way under new brass prices for HO (something like a >T1 would check in at about $1200 plus). The list on the latest T-1 released ('bout 4 years ago) by Key was $2100, with sale prices in the range of $1800-$1900. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:11:34 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] HO to N From: Jerry Britton On 8/21/00 12:04 PM, Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. (smithbf@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: >> Those prices are still way under new brass prices for HO (something like a >> T1 would check in at about $1200 plus). > > The list on the latest T-1 released ('bout 4 years ago) by Key was $2100, > with sale prices in the range of $1800-$1900. > The new run of T-1's in N scale by Key, which is already fully reserved, should hit the streets between $850-1,000. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:48:52 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: [PRR] PRR: Detailing an I-1 I spent two delightfully cool weeks visiting family in western Penna. in late July before heading back to the sweltering entrance to Hades, commonly referred to Texas. Whilst I made another trip to Hamburg, NY, and spent three hours climbing all over 4483, making measurements and taking photos. Had the opportunity to meet, have lunch with, and railfan with, Rick Siller. For you I-1sa fans, read on. The rest of you can hit the delete key now if you haven't already. 1. The cab roof. a. The hatch supplied with Bowser's superdetail kit is too short, as are the runners. I realized this when I obtained an overhead photo of an I-1, but could not scale the hatch because of the angle. To make a correct hatch: 1. The runners are 85" long. They are U-channel with the upper leg shorter than the lower leg, which is riveted to the cab roof. The distance between runners is 30" 2. The hatch is 44 inches long x 31" wide. The sides flare down and partly around the runner upper edge so the hatch will stay in place while being slid. The hatch has 3 pieces of angle iron attached to the upper surface. The first is at the front of the hatch. The second is 21.5" from the first. The third is at the back edge. The first two have the free edge facing up. The third has the free edge facing down and acts to block water from coming in the hatch when it is closed. L________L___________ | I made one of these a couple of days ago. Took some time to get everything aligned properly b. There is a 5" wide strip of metal riveted to the roof along the midline. This strip covers the seam where the two roof halves meet. This strip does not show in any photos I have, even the overhead shot, because the hatch is open and covers the strip. By the way, if you are modeling O-scale or bigger, the roof rivet pattern is: 6 rows of rivets on each half. Rows are 24" apart. There are 6 rivets per row, each 5.5" apart. I really don't think I am going to try to duplicate that detail. c. The gutters are parallel with the horizontal. They do not slope downward slightly toward the back of the roof as they appear to do in some photos and as I have seen on some models. 2. Washout plugs a. Firebox plugs I hope you did not follow the Bowser instructions for the firebox washout plugs. I could tell from photos that the plugs were not spaced the same on both sides. I scaled them from photos in the Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia and am happy to say I was dead on for 5 of the 6 and was a millimeter off on the 6th. On the left side, the first plug is 12" from the front of the cab. The other two are 33" and 58" from center to center. On the right side, the first plug is 13" from the front of the cab. The others are 62" and 58" from center to center. b. Boiler washout plugs. There are no boiler plugs in the Bowser diagram. They show perfectly in the overhead shot, but I could not scale them. The distance from the front of the smoke box to the center of the plug is 107" The plugs are 45.5" center to center. They are lined up almost exactly with the back edge of the bell base (see below) 3. The bell Bowser's predrilled hole is almost dead on. The bell was mounted on a base that was 12" square, judging from the threads sticking up from the boiler. The front edge of this base was 96" from the front of the smokebox. 4. The feedwater heater I did not, unfortunately, measure the distance from the front to the FWH, but I know Bowser's predrilled hole is too far forward because the FWH almost touches the reverse gear hanger, whereas in the prototype, there is a sizeable gap between them. I moved the hole back 2 mm. 5. The left runningboard. 4483 has a mechanical lubricator, and the runningboard on the left side was modified to provide room. The measurements on the runningboard, from the front: 31" horizontal followed by a 15" vertical, followed by a 62" horizontal, followed by a 6" vertical, followed by a 78" horizontal to the feedwater heater. On the Bowser model, the last part of the runningboard does not scale to 78" because the FWH is too far forward. If it is moved back about 2mm, that segment of the runningboard is almost exact. But, you have to add the 2 mm section. If there is no mechanical lubricator, I believe the two runningboards were identical, as they are cast on the Bowser model. 6. Ash pans The ash pans supplied with the superdetail kit are incorrect. They flush with the underside edge of the firebox. On 4483 the ash pans project 8" beyond the firebox. I used Cal Scale Commonwealth ash pans, and they still don't project quite far enough. 7. The turret Bowser's turret is worthless! It is not the right size or shape and you really need to make one if the engine is to look right. The turret sits atop the firebox, and against the front wall of the cab. The turret top is curved to match the curve of the cab roof. The top is actually a lid that is hinged in the center so either side can be lifted up. Each half of the lid is 30" x 30". Each half has a 7" flange hanging down on the outside edge. I made turrets of styrene. Trim a piece of styrene to 9 x 17 mm, then sand the top surface so it follows the cab roof outline. The turret slopes upward toward the front. Sand the bottom of the styrene so the back edge is even with the cab and the front edge is higher. Next, cut a piece of 0.005 brass sheet approximately the size of the turret top. Curve it so it fits on the top of the styrene, then cut the piece in half along the short axis. Glue each half to the turret top. There is a valve handle on the front face of the turret. It is 6.5" in diameter, and is 26" in from the left side of the turret. Two 3/4" valve rods emerge from the front of the turret and travel straight to the valves on either side of the steam dome. The 1.5" feedwater heater supply pipe crosses over the firebox in front of the turret. On the left side the 3" starter pipe enters the turret near the front, and on the right side a 1.5" pipe emerges from the turret near the front. This latter pipe disappears into the shroud on all the photos I have, and is not connected to anything on 4483, so I don't know exactly where it goes - have not obtained those blueprints. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR: Detailing an I-1 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:03:11 -0400 Don, When you say the turret is incorrect do you mean on the new I1 boiler or the older one or both! Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:26:44 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Cabin Cars Derrick, Jerry, & Cabin Car Fans, > > I was through Renovo, PA, Thursday & there's 1 caboose left. The last 3 cabooses at Renovo were NH C511, LV 95037 & LV 95097. I heard that the 2 LV hacks had been sold but I'm not certain. > I saw a string of cabeese south of US 220 between Lock Haven > and Williamsport. > I take "string" to mean more than six cars. Were they in a yard, on a siding/spur, or off track? Jerry, where do you live? I'm guessing eastern PA but I will send you some leads if you give me your area. Cheers, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:35:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Cabin Cars On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Roger Kirkpatrick wrote: > Derrick, Jerry, & Cabin Car Fans, > > > > I was through Renovo, PA, Thursday & there's 1 caboose left. > > The last 3 cabooses at Renovo were NH C511, LV 95037 & LV 95097. I > heard that the 2 LV hacks had been sold but I'm not certain. Well, the last one looked like a NH caboose, so I guess that's right > > I saw a string of cabeese south of US 220 between Lock Haven > > and Williamsport. > > > I take "string" to mean more than six cars. Were they in a yard, on a > siding/spur, or off track? sure looked like it. couldn't see the track as it was off in the distance somewhat, sadly. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:01:34 -0400 Jerry- Try http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Outlet/2807/own/caboose.html this will give you the caboose website of Rail Merchants International in Iowa. They have photos of what's available. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk LIST" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:13 AM Subject: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! > Now I've heard it all...my wife, who refers to us SPF's as "you people", > said something yesterday that blew me away... > > A friend of hers, with family, stopped by yesterday to drop some things off. > The husband and three year old son started eyeing my trains. He mentioned > that he had seen a caboose during his travels the previous week. Being a > "kid at heart", he commented that it would be cool to have a caboose for a > kid's playhouse. > > I mentioned that there was a web site (a few years ago and I no longer have > the URL) that had 40+ cabeese and was selling them in the $3-4K range. > > My wife said, "Why don't we get one?" > > She reiterated the question this morning. > > I realize that transportation of such a beast would be a killer, but does > anyone know of the site of which I speak? Would like to at least consider > the matter further (while I can!). > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:39:09 EDT From: NDBPRR@aol.com Subject: [PRR] Cabin car travels Did cabin cars pretty much stay in the region they were assigned to or did they travel throughout the system? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:15:46 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Suspicious attachment Hi, I received an attachment from Graeme Nitx that looks suspicious. Is anyone familiar with this file? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] what is it? Hello all... I just got off the phone with my youngest brother who took a trip up to Penn station in New York this past week. He told me that when leaving the station heading toward the Hudson tunnel on the right was a passenger car that had PRR keystones on it which according to him were crossed out. He was'nt sure as it was getting dark (and as some of us know,there is very little daylight on the tracks at Penn station),he was'nt sure if this car was painted PC green or T-red. He went on to say that the car had windows. He did'nt say if it was a lightweight or heavyweight car. He also mentioned that there is still a lot of old equipment(both freight and passenger) in New Jersey at different places. Including a wooden box car. Anyone have a idea what this car is or what its doing there? I do remember years ago that a group of N.J.-N.Y. commuters had there own club car, but i don't think thats it. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Cabin car travels Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:45:11 -0700 You need to examine the cabin car assignment stuff that's out there. The short of it is that for a long time, each cabin had an assignment. This could have been a really long route, like Ashtabula to Shire Oaks, or a local, like Thomson Yard. So, some of the nice N5c's with Trainphone might be on an assignment for the Eastern Region which might taken them into another region. But generally, because most assignments were within a region, you wouldn't have many others straying outside. Those yellow cupola N5c's got to travel on the east-west pool outside their region a lot, just like the GP-9's. That's why you see them in lots of places. The N5's and N6b's GENERALLY tended to be more local, like a Baldwin switcher. Kinda cool. Hope this helps. If you are interested in a specific unit, drop me a line. elden -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:39 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Cabin car travels Did cabin cars pretty much stay in the region they were assigned to or did they travel throughout the system? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Suspicious attachment Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:20:20 -0400 Roger: DON'T OPEN IT - DELETE IT. That's the virus infectied Graeme's Outlook files! Gregg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kirkpatrick" To: "PRR Talk" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: [PRR] Suspicious attachment > Hi, > > I received an attachment from Graeme Nitx > that looks suspicious. Is anyone > familiar with this file? > > Thanks, Roger > -- > S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Suspicious attachment Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:33:04 -0700 Yup. DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY!!!! Do NOT attempt to open it...it is a virus. Graeme posted a message the other day apologizing about it (he apparently didn't know it was doing what it did) and requesting anyone who received it to delete it. Fortunately (for me) my virus check program caught it. Bill Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kirkpatrick To: PRR Talk Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 4:15 PM Subject: [PRR] Suspicious attachment > Hi, > > I received an attachment from Graeme Nitx > that looks suspicious. Is anyone > familiar with this file? > > Thanks, Roger > -- > S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:59:48 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Multiple suspicious attachments Gregg & Listers, > > DON'T OPEN IT, DELETE IT. That virus infected Graeme's Outlook files! > Don't worry, I deleted it as soon as I got it! I got a second e-mail from him and, as this virus does, it had changed its file name to pix.exe! I think it is a version of the Love Bug virus but I'm not certain. Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:07:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Antique rail observation and questions In a message dated 8/21/2000 8:05:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > Was there a Lehigh Iron and Steel Co. in Scranton? > Leibknecht Iron & Steel? Something else? Lackawanna Iron & Steel a better bet than Lehigh (different valley). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:07:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Antique rail observation and questions In a message dated 8/21/2000 8:05:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > Was there a Lehigh Iron and Steel Co. in Scranton? > Leibknecht Iron & Steel? Something else? Lackawanna Iron & Steel a better bet than Lehigh (different valley). Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:10:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] My Wife Must Be Ill!!! From: Jerry Britton On 8/21/00 5:01 PM, Gregg Mahlkov at (mahlkov@gtcom.net) wrote: > Try http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Outlet/2807/own/caboose.html this > will give you the caboose website of Rail Merchants International in Iowa. > They have photos of what's available. > Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: [PRR] K-4 long haul tenders Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:10:19 -0700 Did any K-4s continue to have long-haul 'coast to coast' tenders postwar, and did any of these locomotives get fitted with the cast drop coupler pilot or any other postwar modifications? I've only been able to find 1930s pictures of these tenders in use. Thanks! -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] K-4 long haul tenders Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:09:44 -0700 I believe that they all were taken off in the mid-to-late 1930's as they cost a Pullman in pulling capacity. Incidently, the first application of the drop pilot on a K4s was in 1940. See PENNSY POWER 3. Gary Mittner would probably know for sure. Bill Daniels ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew J. Brown To: PRR Talk List Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 6:10 PM Subject: [PRR] K-4 long haul tenders > Did any K-4s continue to have long-haul 'coast to coast' tenders postwar, > and did any of these locomotives get fitted with the cast drop coupler pilot > or any other postwar modifications? I've only been able to find 1930s > pictures of these tenders in use. > > Thanks! > > -Matt > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:34:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] L-1 to L&NE PRR List, I am modeling the L&NE in the post WWII era. The L&NE bought several PRR L-1 steamers. Can anyone tell me the PRR engine numbers and if the L&NE used those numbers or renumbered them. Thank you, Evan RCT&HS 346 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:52:55 -0700 Subject: [PRR] Fishbelly reefers on PRR (in N scale) Fishbelly reefers on PRR (in N scale) To: dennis@bbn.com Hi Dennis and list members, >> I know I'm a little late on this, but where are these "shots" to be >> seen? Are they in anythinkg I might already have so I can >> take a peek? > >Another reference that you may have: Ball, Pennsy in the 40s >and 50s, pg 187, bottom pic, first car. Good view of the >fishbelly. This one has ice hatches. I don't have this one, will make a note for myself and try to check it next time I see a copy of this on a store bookself. Being that I model 1929, I'm not too keen on spending big bucks for a book focused on the 1940's and 1950's. >From the utter lack in pics from mid-50s on (but absence of >evidence is not evidence of absence), I suspect that these >were gone, especially with the arrival of the riveted steel >reefers that MT just released. There are several pics on >the PRR Pictorial History book showing heavy head-end trains >inthe late 50s that should've had them if any train did >(Juniata, Manhattan Limited). I agree with your analysis here. >> I'm kind of curious as I've built a fishbelly reefer >> based on a Wells-Fargo car. Drawings appeared in >> MR and photos in MRG IIRC. These W-F cars were later >> turned over to American Railway Express upon USRA >> control, and then later still became part of the initial >> Railway Express Agency fleet in 1929 after the end >> of ARE. > >These would be the 155-188 (or maybe -224) REA series that >Roseman lists, but doesn't show any pics of? Only 24 or 34 >cars? Why do I see them to frequently? Dedicated fleet, >perhaps? I will check my notes tonite, I think Roseman made an error or made it unclear just how many of these cars came from W-F. I have some memory that his roster made one think there were far fewer W-F cars than there actually were. Also, there were errors in the car lengths he listed IIRC. Many of the W-F cars were short, in the 40-foot range. Some were even truss-rod cars - I guess these might not have been around for too long. In any case, I'm glad to see these cars apparently saw service on the PRR. I kitbashed the W-F car not knowing how appropriate (or inappropriate) it would be to run in a PRR train. Looks like I'm OK, so now I won't have to hide from the Prototype Police nor will I be limited to only running the car in trains scheduled to depart after nightfall! >I like it that they share dimensions with the existing >models. If they're the same manufacturer (which is, >unfortunately, not noted), simply adding a fishbelly to a >FNS reefer would make an easy bash, and the right decals >come with them, too. Sanding off the hatches to make milk >cars is also quite attractive. Dimensions shown in MR drawings match the MDC/Roundhouse N scale car very well. I simply added a fishbelly side sill ruthlessy cut from a 50' Bmann flatcar and simply added onto the side of the express car body. As it turned out, the length was a near-perfect fit. I think using the MDC/Roundhouse car for a kitbash of this kind is easier than trying to use the FNS car. Since the MDC car is styrene, all the usual glues/cements will work - if you use the FNS car you need a resin-compatible cement. Besides, the MDC car is much cheaper. As to original car manufacturer, I think I can shed some light, again, after I check my notes. Pretty sure at least some of the W-F cars were ACF and some were Pullman. Also, Erie hosted W-F as their online express company, and fishbelly side cars were build for Erie and then leased directly to W-F for their use. The Erie cars were somewhat unique, in that they had six-wheel trucks under them. I don't know if these cars stayed on the Erie after nationalization or if they became part of the ARE and REA fleets (and thus might have found their way onto PRR and other rails). You mentioned sanding off the ice hatches - I have done this to a pair of MDC/Roundhouse cars to make proper milk cars. I am quite pleased with the results. Microscale makes a milk car lettering set in N, which is what I used on mine. >A reference on the drawings would be *most* welcome. I will look up my references tonite. Will try to post them in a day or three. If I forget remind me. Doug Nelson helped me find some of the W-F references about a year or so back - I would never have stumbled across them if he had not pointed them out to me. Luckily Doug is in a position to have some unique insights to W-F in any case. The W-F car I did is fully constructed and painted, but still unlettered. I was hoping to be able to find some W-F lettering, but no luck in N scale (it is available in HO). I might still letter it for ARE or REA, using the FNS (or some other) decal set, but for the moment I'm in no hurry. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:57:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: [PRR] K-4 long haul tenders Matt, Bill I don't have the info in front of me right now but I believe the photos that I have are dated no later than 1939. I don't think the tenders made it past the war years let alone the early 1940's. Check out the book "Many Faces of the K4", possibly there is a statement mentioned in there when they were removed and attached to other locos ie M1's or I1's... Bill, incedently, I am out your way at this moment in Gilbert (Phoenix).......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:22:18 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Suspicious attachment My company's virus scanner removed it after IDing it as TROJ_PLAGE2000.A. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Roger Kirkpatrick wrote: > > Hi, > > I received an attachment from Graeme Nitx > that looks suspicious. Is anyone > familiar with this file? > > Thanks, Roger > -- > S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] L-1 to L&NE Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:36:10 -0400 Howdy Evan PRR L1s 1318 to LNE 501 Feb 1941 - built 5/15 @ Juniata construction # 2934 PRR L1s 190 to LNE 502 March 1941 - built 7/16 @ Juniata construction # 3108 PRR L1s 1719 to LNE 503 Oct 1941 - built 2/18 @ Juniata construction # 3417 PRR L1s 1986 to LNE 504 Oct 1941 - built 9/18 @ Baldwin construction # 49849 Cos PRR List, I am modeling the L&NE in the post WWII era. The L&NE bought several PRR L-1 steamers. Can anyone tell me the PRR engine numbers and if the L&NE used those numbers or renumbered them. Thank you, Evan RCT&HS 346 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:12:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR to L&NE PRR List, Have found two photos of PRR L-1's sold to L&NE. First is PRR 190 which became 502; second is PRR 1719 which became 503. Am still looking for the total number of engines sold to L&NE and the before/after numbers. Thank you, Evan RCT&HS 346 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:45:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Herald King Decals I am trying to decal some HO 100 ton H43 hoppers and the only decals I know of were the Herald King set #H1800. I'm not happy with the quality of the Bowser version. Does anyone know of any hobby store or supplier, etc., that may still have these laying around? Thanks. Bob O'Leary PRRT&HS #1327 Phila. Chapter #1140 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Re: Fishbelly reefers on PRR (in N scale) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:04:17 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell On 21 Aug, "Claus Schlund" wrote: > >Another reference that you may have: Ball, Pennsy in the 40s > >and 50s, pg 187, bottom pic, first car. Good view of the > >fishbelly. This one has ice hatches. > > I don't have this one, will make a note for myself and try to check > it next time I see a copy of this on a store bookself. Being that I model > 1929, I'm not too keen on spending big bucks for a book focused on the 1940's > and 1950's. Yeah, I thought it might be a bit far out for you. However, it's the clearest photo I've found so far. > In any case, I'm glad to see these cars apparently > saw service on the PRR. I kitbashed the W-F car not knowing > how appropriate (or inappropriate) it would be to run > in a PRR train. Looks like I'm OK, so now I won't have to hide from > the Prototype Police nor will I be limited to only running the car > in trains scheduled to depart after nightfall! Yep! In PRR Glory II and III they appear in multiples in just about every passenger train with more than just baggage at the head end. > Dimensions shown in MR drawings match the MDC/Roundhouse N scale car > very well. I simply added a fishbelly side sill ruthlessy cut from a 50' > Bmann flatcar and simply added onto the side of the express car body. > As it turned out, the length was a near-perfect fit. > I think using the MDC/Roundhouse > car for a kitbash of this kind is easier than trying to use > the FNS car. Since the MDC car is styrene, all the usual glues/cements > will work - if you use the FNS car you need a resin-compatible > cement. Besides, the MDC car is much cheaper. Yeah, but I'd rather donate to FNS than MDC, and CA works great when assembling the FNS cars. > As to original car manufacturer, I think I can shed some light, > again, after I check my notes. Pretty sure at least some of > the W-F cars were ACF and some were Pullman. Roseman's roster would imply that the fishbellies were not Pullman, but other wooden SUF cars (including, I think, the FNS and MDC models) were built by Pullman. I couldn't find any pics of these cars in the ACF book. Some were similar, but none really close, and none were W-F or REA until the 6100-series steel reefers in the 40s. > Also, Erie hosted W-F as their online express company, and fishbelly > side cars were build for Erie and then leased directly to W-F for > their use. The Erie cars were somewhat unique, in that they had > six-wheel trucks under them. I don't know if these cars stayed on the > Erie after nationalization or if they became part of the > ARE and REA fleets (and thus might have found their > way onto PRR and other rails). I'll have to look into these cars! They sound very distinctive. > You mentioned sanding off the ice hatches - I have done this to a pair > of MDC/Roundhouse cars to make proper milk cars. I am quite pleased with > the results. Microscale makes a milk car lettering set in N, which is > what I used on mine. Yes, just what I was thinking of. > The W-F car I did is fully constructed and painted, but still unlettered. I > was hoping to be able to find some W-F lettering, but no luck in N scale > (it is available in HO). I might still letter it for ARE or REA, using the > FNS (or some other) decal set, but for the moment I'm in no hurry. >From the pics I've seen, just paint it road grime color and leave off the lettering altogether! I have yet to find a pic in which you can even tell that they're lettered at all! Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:07:59 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR to L&NE Evan, Where did you find the photos? Are they in a "regular" publication, or what? Chuck Friedlein RDG2124@aol.com wrote: > PRR List, > > Have found two photos of PRR L-1's sold to L&NE. First is PRR 190 which > became 502; second is PRR 1719 which became 503. Am still looking for the > total number of engines sold to L&NE and the before/after numbers. > > Thank you, > > Evan > RCT&HS 346 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:18:51 -0500 <> <> <> Whenever I visit my parents, I make an effort to do as much train riding as possible around the Philly area. About once a year, I'll ride out to Harrisburg just to see what's new (And just for the sake of riding). The past year and a half I observed the following: There are many industrial sidings from Parksburg to Harrisburg. I wish I took notes of the exact locations, but I do remembering seeing a few grain elevators with sidings west of Lancaster, a the Steel plant in Middletown, and many little sidings. For the Freights that head west, they do use the Main Line but run at night because of all the switching; just like the freights that serve industries on the NEC. I never saw movements in Lancaster County during the day, but always see many cars and engines tied up along the way. When train watching in Whithford (Between Downigtown and Paoli on the main) this past May, I spotted an eastbound freight on the main. The motive power was a NS Conrail blue (Numbered PRR) SD-60MI, and a black NS C40-8. It was only pulling about 8 flat cars carrying steel plates and re-bar with a bay window caboose on the tail outfitted with a red flag instead of a FRED. It went by at about 5 mph; the cargo looked like it was very unstable. My guess is that it was transferring steel from the mill in Middletown to the National Rolling Mills in Chester Springs (Wild Guess)?????. Eastbound freights leave the Main Line and take the Trenton Cut-off at Frazer PA. There isn't any industries between Parksburg and Frazer. I'll get back later with more details about the freights lines in Philly. Joe Hildenbrand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Doug Goss" Subject: [PRR] PRR Yards and Depot Richmond, Indiana Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:13:06 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C00C3A.B5A99440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for information and photos of the Yard and Depot in = Richmond, Indiana. Thanks Doug Goss homes@infocom.com ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C00C3A.B5A99440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking for information and photos = of the Yard=20 and Depot in Richmond, Indiana.

Thanks

Doug Goss

homes@infocom.com

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C00C3A.B5A99440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Web page update Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:18:32 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C00C6D.C299C5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have just updated my web page and posted a photo of the Pennsylvania = Railroad Museum's fire less form the Pennsylvania Heat & Light Company. Patrick Grace http://www.aspects.net/~pgrace =20 ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C00C6D.C299C5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have just updated my web page and = posted a photo=20 of the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum's fire less form the Pennsylvania = Heat &=20 Light Company.

Patrick Grace

http://www.aspects.net/~pgrace =20
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C00C6D.C299C5C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:38:04 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Herald King Decals Try Hawkins Rail Services, Lafayette , Indiana 765/742-5577 DATSMan@aol.com wrote: > I am trying to decal some HO 100 ton H43 hoppers and the only decals I know > of were the Herald King set #H1800. I'm not happy with the quality of the > Bowser version. Does anyone know of any hobby store or supplier, etc., that > may still have these laying around? > Thanks. > > Bob O'Leary > PRRT&HS #1327 > Phila. Chapter #1140 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:38:04 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Herald King Decals Try Hawkins Rail Services, Lafayette , Indiana 765/742-5577 DATSMan@aol.com wrote: > I am trying to decal some HO 100 ton H43 hoppers and the only decals I know > of were the Herald King set #H1800. I'm not happy with the quality of the > Bowser version. Does anyone know of any hobby store or supplier, etc., that > may still have these laying around? > Thanks. > > Bob O'Leary > PRRT&HS #1327 > Phila. Chapter #1140 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Main Line dispatcher location Hello, Anyone know were the main line dispatcher is located in the Norristown area? At least the one I here on the radio. I hear Paoli tower but I think there controlling Amtrak only. Also noticed for the first time " Grundy " tower after passing it a million times on the turnpike bridge to NJ. Anyone know if it's still in use?------Mark L .----------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:05:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. In a message dated 00-08-22 13:29:54 EDT, you write: << When train watching in Whithford (Between Downigtown and Paoli on the main) this past May, I spotted an eastbound freight on the main. The motive power was a NS Conrail blue (Numbered PRR) SD-60MI, and a black NS C40-8. It was only pulling about 8 flat cars carrying steel plates and re-bar with a bay window caboose on the tail outfitted with a red flag instead of a FRED. It went by at about 5 mph; the cargo looked like it was very unstable. My guess is that it was transferring steel from the mill in Middletown to the National Rolling Mills in Chester Springs (Wild >> Joe what you saw was the sometimes daily train that runs for Lukens/Bethlehem steel in Coatesville to their other rolling facility in Conshohocken at the old Allen Wood plant. The plant in Conshohocken has the capability to roll wider plate than the mill in Coatesville. The old National Rolling mill facility in Frazer is now callled Worthington Steel and receives only coil steel in coil cars or gons. This facility was on the ex RDG Chester Valley branch which was abandoned about 5 years ago. A connection was made from a short section of the Chester Valley Br. to the Trenton Cutoff and this is how Worthington is now served. The industries between Lancaster and Parkesburg are served by a local out of Lancaster that turns at Thorndale. No freight has run east of the connection of the main line and the cutoff at Glen almost ten years now. I have lived in the area all my life and do miss the freight traffic that once was here. ------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:08:23 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Minitrix K-4 I-1 [PRR] "Matthew J. Brown" wrote on 8/18/00 10:12 pm: >I'd heard they [ Minitrix K-4 ] were rather inaccurate though Less inaccurate than Atlas' M/S PS-1. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:18:07 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Pittsburg Ft. Wayne & Chicago From: John Clark I am looking for a Pittsburg Ft. Wayne & Chicago timetable in the period of 1860 -1870. I would like to obtain photocopies of the schedules for passenger trains operating between Chicago and Ft. Wayne. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] N-5 for sale Jerry... Here is a N-5 for sale. Look here... http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/9043.jpg This is the home page its from.... http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/caboose.html Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] RPO for sale Hello folks... Ok since Jerry is looking for a cabin car.... Heres a old Pennsy RPO for sale for a mere $6,000. The site says its a former R,F and P car,but i say its a former M-70 class Pennsy car. Look here... http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/4018.gif Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: george.pierson@trnty.edu Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:01:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Station construction/colors Hi, all, I'm close to starting construction on an HO model of the PRR Middle Div. station at Port Royal. I have two questions that maybe someone on this list can address. First, though, Port Royal was about 52 miles west of Harrisburg and had a (I think) wood frame station that I know was constructed in 1910. The station came down sometime (I believe) in the 1950's, although one person there told me they thought it made it into the 60's. Anyway, I have a few copies of average to poor b&w photos of the station but they leave me with two unanswered questions. One, like many stations, this one had what looks like two different types of construction on the outside walls. The lower, which comes up to about waist height, was a dark color, and then above that up to the roof was a lighter color, presumably depot buff (sorry - I may not have the correct PRR names for these colors). First question - what color was this lower area? Would it have been the deep brown that was used for door and window frames? BTW I'm modeling 1950. Second, as I have reviewed photos of other PRR stations for inspiration, I have noticed that on some, this lower area is wood siding, often with the joints between pieces running perpendicular to the siding on the upper part of the wall (quite common on many U.S. frame depots). However, other similar PRR depots had this lower part of the wall made of brick or stone, while the upper portion was wood. None of my photos of the Port Royal depot shows which of these types of construction was used. The lower part is just darker. BTW, in reviewing depot photos, I was struck by how many different architectural styles were used by the PRR over the years and in various regions of the system. "Standard RR of the World" doesn't really seem to apply to over-all depot design. Or maybe more accurately, there were a number of different sets of standards that were applied depending on the region and the time of the depot's construction. In the case of Port Royal, this was the second depot built here by the PRR. The first dated from the original construction in the 1840's and was at a different location than the depot I'm interested in. There seem to have been a broad set of standards to govern construction of quite a few depots along the Middle Division that got built/re-placed in conjunction with the gradual 4-tracking and improvement of the line that took place c.1900-1910. That was the case in Port Royal. Anyway, any help you can offer would be appreciated. George Pierson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:11:02 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR N-5 for sale Hi, > > Here is a N-5 for sale. > http://www.trains-trams-trolleys.com/9043.jpg > This is PRR 477424/PC/CR 19052. Does anyone know its present location? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:18:23 -0600 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: Re: [PRR] N-5 for sale Hi, I should have asked "Where in New York is PRR 477424/PC/CR 19052?" There are 2 CR transfer cabooses and some passenger cars, painted as Circus cars, for sale at the same location. Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461-3416 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:39:30 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Construction At Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton Last night I was railfanning at HARRIS tower in Harrisburg. The Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS happened to be on-site for a slide show get-together. One of the attendees, a recent railroad retiree, brought to my attention that construction had begun on double-tracking the connection from the former PRR mainline (at the station) to the former Reading line (at CAPITOL). This was rumored several months ago, but is now actually happening. This will enable much more traffic to flow between the huge new intermodal facility on the site of the former Reading Rutherford yard, which opened last month. Since both PRR and Reading went into Conrail, I can justify this post to all three lists!!! ;-) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] K-4 long haul tenders Matt, list, I'm doing this from memory as all of my PRR books are in transit due to my move. The PRR started using long distance tenders on the K4s class about 1929-31 (hazy on the exact date, probably closer to 1931 as I don't recall seeing any long distance tenders with fancy passenger striping on K4s engines). By 1939-41 the 10 K4s engines that got long distance tenders had surrendered them to M1 engines. The largest tender a K4s would have after 1941 would be a 130P75. K4s 3768 surrendered her 180P75 to an I1sa around 1941 as well. When I unpack my books (unfortunately, early December), I will research this further. Doug --- "Matthew J. Brown" wrote: > Did any K-4s continue to have long-haul 'coast to > coast' tenders postwar, > and did any of these locomotives get fitted with the > cast drop coupler pilot > or any other postwar modifications? I've only been > able to find 1930s > pictures of these tenders in use. > > Thanks! > > -Matt > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L Subject: RE: [PRR] Frieght West from Phila. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:35:21 -0500 <<>> Thanks for clarifying a few things, I received an email my off line with some good info too. Is the junction in Frazer, near the SEPTA maint. facility, called Glen? And is this were the line from West Chester joined the ML way, way back? I've been collecting employee and public timetables the past few years and I'm short on PRR. I have about four, but they are the condensed schedules for East - West service. I have tons of T&P, MKT, and Frisco. I'm also looking at adding PC, Conrail, and current NS & CSX employee TT's, just to learn more of the area. For all the years I lived in PA (Only 18, 15 as a conscious railfan), I never learned the names of all the lines and junctions! Like you, I do miss seeing freights on the ML. It was nice to catch a few E-44's roaring by in Narbeth. Joe Hildenbrand Jr A Tower 55 TS & BS Society Member AKA Double Nickel Club ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:07:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Frieght West from Phila. Joe. Yes,Frazer is where the SEPTA maint. bldg is. And yes GLEN is just past there where the Trenton Cutoff joins the ML. Could not think of GLEN at the time. No the Chester Valley does not join there but out in Dowingtown at DOWNS. I think it remote from THORN. The PRR New Holland br comes off there also. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Frieght West from Phila. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 100 13:40:59 -0400 (EDT) PKMac1@aol.com scribit: > > Joe. Yes,Frazer is where the SEPTA maint. bldg is. And yes GLEN is just past > there where the Trenton Cutoff joins the ML. Could not think of GLEN at the > time. > No the Chester Valley does not join there but out in Dowingtown at DOWNS. I > think it remote from THORN. The PRR New Holland br comes off there also. > > Pat Gents: in re: this area, please see http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Maps/itlk_phl_har_main.html -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hildenbrand Sgt Joseph L Subject: RE: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:03:05 -0500 <> Pat. I think we got confused about the Chester Valley Branch. I was inquiring about the WEST Chester Line that left Philly and went to the borough of West Chester via Elwyn, Media, Wawa, Glen Mills, and Westtown. I saw that a tourist railroad runs excursions on it with former PRR equipment. I remember Septa used to run on the line about ten years ago, but still used some of the line for engineer training (Glen Mills??). Also I remember seeing Conrail use the line, mostly tank cars at the Wyeth Plant (A place that had a smell you could never forget). But years ago, the line continued through WC and met up with the ML somewhere around GLEN. You can see an old station off of King rd across from the chemical company (Is it still Johnston Mathis??). Like mentioned earlier, I'm gathering information on this line. I once heard that a roundhouse used to be in WC. I never seen any pictures though. Next time I'm up, it's time to visit the CC Historical society and visit some archives. Thanks for the information on the Chester Valley line -are they still planning on making some of it a bike/walking trail? And I didn't know the New Holland br terminated in DOWNS. Joe Hildenbrand JR Tower 55 TS & BS Society Member AKA Double Nickel Club ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:03:19 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New Soundtraxx Decoders!!! From: Jerry Britton I'll share some news here that I shared on the "Merchandise Announce" (see URL in signature) list yesterday... Soundtraxx made to important announcements: First, they have a new line of solderless "plug and play" sound decoders for popular Atlas, Kato, Stewart, and Life Like locos. The new Soundtraxx unit simply replaces the existing light board in a matter of minutes, speaker included. No soldering, easy!!! Second, Soundtraxx has out a new "low end" sound decoder with a retail price of under $100...marketing it as a way for sound "newbies" to get their feet wet with little risk. Both diesel and steam versions are available. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Station construction/colors Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:59:49 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: george.pierson@trnty.edu >Hi, all, > >I'm close to starting construction on an HO model of the PRR Middle Div. station >at Port Royal. I have two questions that maybe someone on this list can address. George, The Penn Valley video "Middle Division" has quite a bit of footage filmed by Clarence Weaver at Port Royal in the 1950s. I don't recall (without looking at my tape) if this station shows up or not. The most prominent feature that I do recall is a concrete highway overpass that frames most of the shots of approaching trains. I'll be glad to view it again for you if you don't have access to it. It is a great tape. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Frieght West from Phila. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 100 16:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Mark Bej scribit: > > Gents: > in re: this area, please see > http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Maps/itlk_phl_har_main.html Sorry. This is one of the down sides of typing out URLs manually. Here is the correct one. http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/itlk_phl_har_main.html -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:42:25 -0400 From: Jeff Warner Subject: Re: [PRR] New Soundtraxx Decoders!!! Jerry: Slight correction to the post below... The new Soundtraxx plug and play for the Bachmann 2-8-0 does indeed come with a built in speaker. The Atlas/Kato/LL/Stewart plug and play decoders do NOT come with a built in speaker. You have to purchase a seperate one and install it yourself (including finding room for it ). This most likely requires a small amount of soldering -- at the speaker end, not the decoder end. Soundtraxx's recommendation is a 3/8" to 1" speaker, available from Soundtraxx at additional cost be mounted under the fans, or in the cab. Also, please note the Atlas and Kato only fit in "the most recent designs", the Stewart only in the C628, and the Life Like only in the E, PA, and FA locos... Overall though, this sounds like a great new product. Jeff Warner Jerry Britton wrote: > I'll share some news here that I shared on the "Merchandise Announce" (see > URL in signature) list yesterday... > > Soundtraxx made to important announcements: > > First, they have a new line of solderless "plug and play" sound decoders for > popular Atlas, Kato, Stewart, and Life Like locos. The new Soundtraxx unit > simply replaces the existing light board in a matter of minutes, speaker > included. No soldering, easy!!! > > Second, Soundtraxx has out a new "low end" sound decoder with a retail price > of under $100...marketing it as a way for sound "newbies" to get their feet > wet with little risk. Both diesel and steam versions are available. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:00:19 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Soundtraxx Decoders!!! From: Jerry Britton On 8/23/00 4:42 PM, Jeff Warner at (jwarner@ptd.net) wrote: > Slight correction to the post below... Actually, we were both wrong... > > The new Soundtraxx plug and play for the Bachmann 2-8-0 does indeed come with > a > built in speaker. The Atlas/Kato/LL/Stewart plug and play decoders do NOT > come > with a built in speaker. You have to purchase a seperate one and install it > yourself (including finding room for it ). This most likely requires a > small > amount of soldering -- at the speaker end, not the decoder end. Soundtraxx's > recommendation is a 3/8" to 1" speaker, available from Soundtraxx at > additional > cost be mounted under the fans, or in the cab. > The Life Like, Bachman, and Stewart (C628) units do include the speakers, the Atlas and Kato units do not. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:17:06 EDT Subject: [PRR] Decoders while the subject is current I have been meaning oi ask how anyone has successfully installed a decoder in an A5s switcher in HO. Thanks for any input. Norm Bell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:39:40 -0700 This reminded me of some questions I've been meaning to ask. What determined whether Trenton Cutoff traffic would connect to the main at Glen or use the P&T to Thorn? Likewise, what would determine whether traffic would use the A&S from Park or the Columbia branch from Cork to get to Enola? John > ---------- > From: KEMACPRR@aol.com[SMTP:KEMACPRR@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:05 PM > To: HildenbrandJL@mfr.usmc.mil > Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. > > In a message dated 00-08-22 13:29:54 EDT, you write: > > << When train watching in Whithford (Between Downigtown and Paoli on the > main) this past May, I spotted an eastbound freight on the main. The > motive > power was a NS Conrail blue (Numbered PRR) SD-60MI, and a black NS C40-8. > It was only pulling about 8 flat cars carrying steel plates and re-bar > with > a bay window caboose on the tail outfitted with a red flag instead of a > FRED. It went by at about 5 mph; the cargo looked like it was very > unstable. My guess is that it was transferring steel from the mill in > Middletown to the National Rolling Mills in Chester Springs (Wild >> > > Joe what you saw was the sometimes daily train that runs for > Lukens/Bethlehem steel in Coatesville to their other rolling facility in > Conshohocken at the old Allen Wood plant. The plant in Conshohocken has > the > capability to roll wider plate than the mill in Coatesville. The old > National Rolling mill facility in Frazer is now callled Worthington Steel > and > receives only coil steel in coil cars or gons. This facility was on the ex > > RDG Chester Valley branch which was abandoned about 5 years ago. A > connection > was made from a short section of the Chester Valley Br. to the Trenton > Cutoff > and this is how Worthington is now served. The industries between > Lancaster > and Parkesburg are served by a local out of Lancaster that turns at > Thorndale. No freight has run east of the connection of the main line and > the > cutoff at Glen almost ten years now. I have lived in the area all my > life > and do miss the freight traffic that once was here. > ------------------ > Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Main Line radio frequency Mike , I hear them on 160.800 Ch 1 ------------Mark L .----------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Chester Valley RR / West Chester Line �� Joe and list, The Chester Valley RR (RDG) Ran from Downingtown( New Holland Branch) to Bridgeport Pa (Norristown) were it connected to the RDG main. The connection was controlled from THORN after 1938. ��The West Chester Line originally connected at Malvern. It was relocated to Frazer in the 1880s. It is also were the Phoenixville Branch branches off. ----------------Mark�L�.---------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:11:26 -0400 From: ERIC LAUTERBACH Subject: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I am finally getting around to weathering my rolling stock. I am using a mix of either grimmy black and air brusk thinner or engine black and air brush thinner. The results are not bad, but now I am wondering about the N5 and N5c Bowser cabin cars that I have. Does anyone have any thoughts on weathering cabin cars? I would like some input before I try anything. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Price" Subject: Re: [PRR] Decoders Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:49:38 -0000 Yes, I put a digitrax DZ-121 in a Sunset brass A-5 Ed >while the subject is current I have been meaning oi ask how anyone has >successfully installed a decoder in an A5s switcher in HO. Thanks for any >input. Norm Bell > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:46:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Fishbelly reefers on PRR (in N scale) Hi Dennis and list members, OK, I looked over my notes, and w/ respect to fishbelly express cars, I have the following statements made in the hobby press, some of which are contradictory. (1) Apr 1993 Railmodel Journal has a good article on the Wells-Fargo cars. Includes drawings and good photos of the 50-foot fishbelly-framed car W-F 166, built 1-31-13 by ACF at St. Charles, MO. The car is somewhat unusual, in that while it resembles an ordinary express reefer in most elements, it has a clerestory roof (decorative, according to the article) along with the fishbelly sides. This is the car I modeled, based on these photos and on the drawings in MR (below). I used an N-scale MDC/Roundhouse express reefer as the starting point, fishbelly sides were sawed off a Bmann flat, box markings say 53-1039-02 "N 51' Flat car with logs" (was a perfrct fit), and clerestory roof came from a Bmann 65' pass car (had to be shortened, of course, but width is a perfect fit). Photos are "Courtesy ACF". Drawings are from the 1919 Car Builders Cyclopedia, which is one of the years reprinted in the Train Shed Cyc series. I've not checked my TSCs to see if the drawings are in there. The same article also has a builders photo of W-F 76, a short truss-rod express reefer (obviously w/o fishbelly underframe). No date or manufacturer is indicated for W-F 76. Article lists the following W-F roster for 1913: 155-189 (35 cars) 50-foot outside length. The above-mentioned car W-F 166 is in this series. 40-49 (10 cars) 40'6" The below-mentioned car W-F 47 is in this series. 50-89 (40 cars) 42'6" The above-mentioned car W-F 76 is in this series. 90-154 (65 cars) 45'6" The same issue also has a second article (includes only model photos and drawings by author, no prototype photos) on modeling W-F 47, a 40-foot trussrod express reefer (again, no fishbelly here). Since I am starting to get off topic, I will be brief - this car could be built in N scale on top of the FNS 40-foot truss-rod reefer underframe which is sold as a separate part to go under (and convert) MT 40' reefers. Use an MT reefer body as the starting point, needs a new roof. So the series 155-189 cars definitely "fit the bill" - these are 50-foot cars w/ fishbelly underframes. They were built with unusual clerestory roofs. Maybe these were refitted with conventional roofs in later years??? Sounds quite plausible to me anyway. Apparently these cars were build as true reefers, with ice hatches. Lastly, we DONT know anything about what the series 90-154 cars looked like - no photos that I know of anywhere. There is a singificant number of cars in this series. Overall, this mag issue is the most thorough treatment of the W-F cars to date. (2) Oct 1955 Model Railroader page 40-1 has a Geisel drawing of the W-F 160. This car is in the same series 155-189 as the above photo of W-F 166. Geisel indicates 75 cars were built - but there appears to be no real evidence to support this statement. (3) Roseman in his "Condensed Roster" indicates cars W-F 40-154 were all 48'11" outside length. Sorry, but photo evidence contradicts this, and I believe the photos more than I do the statement in Roseman's roster. Roseman's roster further mentions cars in the following series 190-224 (10 cars) 53'2" outside length ex-W-F cars built by Pullman I think a under-construction photo of one of these cars is in White's "The Great Yellow Fleet", but I may be wrong - this is from memory and I don't own the book. What did these cars look like? Who knows - no photos to date. 275-474 (166 cars) 53'6" no owner or builder information given by Roseman, but might be ex-W-F. Again, who knows what these cars looked like. Hope this helps to stir up the muck, or was it supposed to clarify things? Till later... Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:42:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. In a message dated 00-08-23 14:14:37 EDT, HildenbrandJL@mfr.usmc.mil writes: << But years ago, the line continued through WC and met up with the ML somewhere around GLEN. >> This line met the main at what the PRR called Frazer, a short distance east of the current SEPTA facility. It still appears (as the "Frazer Secondary Track") in a 1954 ETT, but does not appear in the 1956 ETT (although it could have still been in place then.) I have passed Frazer well over 100 times and have never been able to pick out the former right of way from the train. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KLJURY@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:00:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] Cumberland Valley Line This P.M. tied up in Shiremanstown Yard next to Quaker Oats on the former PRR Cumberland Valley line were two Grey & Black GP8's with a fiber optics wire laying train. Does anyone know if they are laying cable along this line or are they working on the former Reading Lurgan line? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:28:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. In a message dated 00-08-23 18:47:17 EDT, you write: << This reminded me of some questions I've been meaning to ask. What determined whether Trenton Cutoff traffic would connect to the main at Glen or use the P&T to Thorn? The hotshot traffic TT trains and such would access the main at Glen as it's a faster move than the P&T to Thorn and more direct. Slower traffic such as the EM-1/2 and the Amboy coal traffic would use the P&T . The grade and curvature on the P&T was less than the mainline so heavier tonnage usuallt stayed on the P&T. Likewise, what would determine whether traffic would use the A&S from Park or the Columbia branch from Cork to get to Enola? >> Again the A&S had less grade than the mainline. So heavier tonnage trains would use the A&S to Columbia and then if they needed to use the Harrisburg side the Royalton Br to the Mainline. This was the route of most of the WB ore traffic from the Phila piers. As the traffic didn't need to access Enola. During the early Conrail era the Mail trains that still used the cutoff always used the Golden Rail as it was called ( The main line ) and because their tonnage was not a problem the main line all the way to Harrisburg. ------------------------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:40:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Freight West from Phila. Rich when you pass the Septa facilities at Frazer the connection to the West Chester Br was directly accross the tracks on the south side. The connection tied into the main on #1 track just east of the PA. RT. 352 bridge. There is still a small feed mill next to the tracks that used to have a siding. A small local oil company was based out of here in the eighties and I hauled some product in for them. While waiting for the trailer to unload I found the remants of the branch leading up thru a cut with a spring switch still in place even though the connection to the main was long gone. If you have Triumph 2 there are some great old pictures of the newer connection at Frazer. ----------------------- Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:52:27 -0400 From: Danny Seymour Subject: [PRR] A5s Decoder I have a digitrax decoder in my Key A5s. Plenty of room in the tender. I don't know about sound though. Operates like a champ. Dan Seymour Visit the "Shark River and Western Railway" at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4374 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDG2124@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:46:23 EDT Subject: [PRR] troop cars List, Did the Pennsy use surplus WWII troop cars for express/mail or any other service? Evan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:31:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] troop cars In a message dated 8/24/00 7:57:02 AM Central Daylight Time, RDG2124@aol.com writes: << Did the Pennsy use surplus WWII troop cars for express/mail or any other service? >> I believe they reconverted their own troop cars back into boxcars. However, converted Army kitchen cars (CB&Q) and Pullman troop sleepers (New Haven, NYC and REA) moved in their passenger and express trains for over 20 years. Too bad they didn't use them for company service. I remember in the late 80's a Southern work train which was a real gem--converted troop cars and converted Pfaudler steel milk cars in the same train. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shells Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:07:45 -0400 PRR Listers: Has anyone seen these decorated shells yet? If so, is the brunswick green the right shade or is it too green? Thanks in advance. Ted ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:04:23 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Timetable of Events From: Jerry Britton It's that time of year... time for clubs & the like to announce and promote their open houses for the upcoming holiday season! I've already entered many new events on the Timetable on Keystone Crossings... http://kc.pennsyrr.com/timetable.html If you have event information, please drop me an e-mail off-list. Thanks! P.S. Don't forget the program in Enola, on Enola, this Labor Day Weekend. My copy 1"=100' valuation map of the entire Enola Yard will be on display (w/thanks to Craig Bowman in California for supplying it originally!). --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:31:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner From: Jerry Britton Folks, I'm considering the purchase of a scanner for railfanning. I don't go out often, and I'd only be doing so in Norfolk Southern (ex-Conrail, ex-PRR) locales. That being said, my needs should be very basic, in terms of the number of needed channels, etc. I'd like to have a cordless unit (batteries vs. car plug), but the car plug option would be nice. Also want decent range. Any recommendations? Though Radio Shack isn't usually the best brand, would they have one that would meet my needs? (I'm going to Altoona this Saturday and there is a local Radio Shack for impulse decisions!) Last, but not least, what are the frequencies used in the Altoona and Harrisburg areas...and would these pick up the talking track detectors as well? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:53:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shells On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Andrews, Ted wrote: > PRR Listers: > > Has anyone seen these decorated shells yet? If so, is the brunswick green > the right shade or is it too green? I have one on my shelf; I'll look at it later -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Eclipse" Subject: RE: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:12:27 -0400 >Last, but not least, what are the frequencies used in the Altoona and >Harrisburg areas...and would these pick up the talking track detectors as >well? A very handy reference book is "The Compendium of Railroad Radio Frequencies" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0890244154/o/qid=967132895/sr=8-1/ref =aps_sr_b_1_3/002-0287693-6376058 Chris Brandt mailto:cobrandt@eclipse.net http://pennsylvaniarailroad.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner Date: Thu, 24 Aug 100 12:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Eclipse scribit: > > >Last, but not least, what are the frequencies used in the Altoona and > >Harrisburg areas...and would these pick up the talking track detectors as > >well? > > A very handy reference book is "The Compendium of Railroad Radio > Frequencies" There is also a handy web version by my friend Jon Roma. http://www.uiuc.edu/~roma/rr-freqs/ -- Mark !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner Date: Thu, 24 Aug 100 12:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Eclipse scribit: > > >Last, but not least, what are the frequencies used in the Altoona and > >Harrisburg areas...and would these pick up the talking track detectors as > >well? > > A very handy reference book is "The Compendium of Railroad Radio > Frequencies" There is also a handy web version by my friend Jon Roma. http://www.uiuc.edu/~roma/rr-freqs/ -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:59:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner In a message dated 8/24/00 10:39:48 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Any recommendations? >> Jerry, I like the Uniden Bearcat 100 channel mobile scanner. I have a BC120XLT which has rechargeable battery (by power supply or car lighter). If you can't get them locally, go to Amatuer Electronic Supply, www.aesham.com. Be forewarned that their website is not the friendliest for information, but the four stores have 800 numbers and you can query by email. If you can find them locally, you may be able to beat their prices, but I just apply the hunting gas mileage I save to the price (Milwaukee is one of their four locations) by going there first. The higher price vs. RadioShack is worth it--I have had both. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:12:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner The Bearcat scanners can be found at Wal-Mart as well for under $100. They are pretty much the standard...I know there are other brands out there but for the beginner the Bearcat line pretty much does what you need it to do. I have had 2 different Bearcats and if the first one hadnt been stolen I would have only ever had one. I would suggest the rechargeable batteries tho...makes life a heck of a lot easier and the initial cost is well worth it. Regards On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 Bobspf@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 8/24/00 10:39:48 AM Central Daylight Time, >jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > ><< Any recommendations? >> > >Jerry, I like the Uniden Bearcat 100 channel mobile scanner. I have a >BC120XLT which has rechargeable battery (by power supply or car lighter). >If you can't get them locally, go to Amatuer Electronic Supply, >www.aesham.com. Be forewarned that their website is not the friendliest for >information, but the four stores have 800 numbers and you can query by email. >If you can find them locally, you may be able to beat their prices, but I >just apply the hunting gas mileage I save to the price (Milwaukee is one of >their four locations) by going there first. The higher price vs. RadioShack >is worth it--I have had both. > >Bob Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net www.bluemoon.net - The Blue Moon Internet Corp. V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network alcoman.Railfan.net - Homepage ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:08:08 -0400 From: Bob Colquitt Subject: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve Does anyone know of where I can get copies of the drawings for the Kittanning Pt. passenger station at the Horseshoe Curve? and photos? Also, does anyone know when it was taken out of service and when it was torn down? In the book "Horseshoe Curve", the photos show the station was in place in 1936 and boarded up, but gone with a pair of Centipedes growling past the area in 1953. There was a coaling station east of the station and in some of the photos, there seems to be a track above leading to the coaler. With the wye further west around the 'curve', where did this track tie in? Though a switchback just west of the freight house? Though the photos are a touch grainy in "Horseshoe Curve", it looks to be a nice station to model with the apparent stone facade and not that large. Thanks for any help, --Bob ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDGbuff@webtv.net (FrancisinSunbury) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Herald King Decals I also am always on the lookout for Herald King decals. I must agree that Bowser's printing on their hopper line leaves a lot to be desired. The small capacity data seems to be standard on a large part of the roadname list. I have only bought the undecorateds so far. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Altoona " ALTO " radio Frequencies You can here NS radio traffic on 160.800 Main line " Alto " 160.860 160.635 even Amtrak uses CH1 160.800 in that area. make sure you have a good antenna---------Mark L .---------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:00:36 -0400 I use a Radio Shack scanner and have used it for about 10 years. It is one of the old 200 channel, PRO-34 UHF/VHF units... I stand with the guys with the Bear Cat, and other brands and I haven't noticed any difference. I have used it all up and down the east coast and in Colorado. The main trick is the antenna ! Bill Knepper PRRT&HS # 1818 (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: Conrail-Talk LIST ; PRR-Talk LIST Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 11:31 AM Subject: [PRR] Looking for a Scanner >Folks, I'm considering the purchase of a scanner for railfanning. I don't go >out often, and I'd only be doing so in Norfolk Southern (ex-Conrail, ex-PRR) >locales. That being said, my needs should be very basic, in terms of the >number of needed channels, etc. > >I'd like to have a cordless unit (batteries vs. car plug), but the car plug >option would be nice. Also want decent range. > >Any recommendations? > >Though Radio Shack isn't usually the best brand, would they have one that >would meet my needs? (I'm going to Altoona this Saturday and there is a >local Radio Shack for impulse decisions!) > >Last, but not least, what are the frequencies used in the Altoona and >Harrisburg areas...and would these pick up the talking track detectors as >well? >--------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:51:44 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] Images Replicas Hi, Does anybody on the list have any experience with the line of resin unibody kits (HO scale) for LIRR ping pong coaches made by Images Replicas? Are they accurate, "assemblable" and worth $ 49.95 with trucks and KD couplers? Thanks. Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:40:51 -0400 >Does anyone know of where I can get copies of the drawings for the >Kittanning Pt. passenger station at the Horseshoe Curve? and photos? Bob, Without looking, I'm pretty sure the PRRT&HS's publication from 1999 "Altoona Between a Roar and a Wimper" has some fine photographs clearly showing the station and the coaling facility. I know they answered several questions for me. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve From: Jerry Britton On 8/25/00 7:40 AM, jbreon (jbreon@email.msn.com) wrote: > Without looking, I'm pretty sure the PRRT&HS's publication from 1999 > "Altoona Between a Roar and a Wimper" has some fine photographs clearly > showing the station and the coaling facility. I know they answered several > questions for me. Yes, it does. Also, "Triumph I" (Roberts) and Dan Cupper's "Horseshoe Heritage" (Withers) have good views over the years. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] [AD] Middle Division O Decals Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:27:07 -0400 We have received a shipment of O Scale Middle Divison PRR decals. These are all of the decals that are currently offered by Middle Division. Please refer to our web site at http://www.onerrave.com and click on MIDDLE DIVISION. The O Scale part numbers start at 100000. We also have a good selection of HO Middle Division decals. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S Hobbies http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 Fax ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:32:37 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars my favorite weathering color for all equipment, cabin cars included, is Rail Brown. Try spraying it lightly on the lower third of the model, like road dust kicked up. Also paint the wheels and couplers this color. By regulation, wheels and couplers on the prototype are NEVER painted. This prevents cracks from being hidden. As a result they are rust, dirt, and oil colored. regards, Andy Miller =========================================== ERIC LAUTERBACH wrote: > > I am finally getting around to weathering my rolling stock. I am using a > mix of either grimmy black and air brusk thinner or engine black and air > brush thinner. The results are not bad, but now I am wondering about the > N5 and N5c Bowser cabin cars that I have. Does anyone have any thoughts > on weathering cabin cars? I would like some input before I try anything. > Thanks, > Eric Lauterbach > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:24:09 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:45 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Eric, I use Floquil engine black (very thin) as the base coat. Spray very lightly from below the car sides & ends. Darkest at the very bottom of the car, lighter as you go toward the belt rail. After this dries, I spray Floquil rail brown (again very thin) the same as I did the black, from the bottom up. Concentrate just a little extra at each end sill directly in line with each wheel. This simulates road dirt that is kicked up by the turbulance of the moving train. Remember "less is more"! Keep it thin and light. Try to get some good color photographs to use as a guide, but don't try to copy them exactly. You only want to suggest the weathering, not obliterate the lettering. There is obviously more to this than I have explained here, but this should get you started in the right direction. Experiment with some other cars first until you are satisfied with your technique and results. Much better to mess up some other road's car rather than a perfectly good Pennsy cabin. Best of luck. C. Burnley -----Original Message----- From: ERIC LAUTERBACH [mailto:lauterbach@peachnet.campuscwix.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:11 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I am finally getting around to weathering my rolling stock. I am using a mix of either grimmy black and air brusk thinner or engine black and air brush thinner. The results are not bad, but now I am wondering about the N5 and N5c Bowser cabin cars that I have. Does anyone have any thoughts on weathering cabin cars? I would like some input before I try anything. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:29:37 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:45 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Eric, I use Floquil engine black (very thin) as the base coat. Spray very lightly from below the car sides & ends. Darkest at the very bottom of the car, lighter as you go toward the belt rail. After this dries, I spray Floquil rail brown (again very thin) the same as I did the black, from the bottom up. Concentrate just a little extra at each end sill directly in line with each wheel. This simulates road dirt that is kicked up by the turbulance of the moving train. Remember "less is more"! Keep it thin and light. Try to get some good color photographs to use as a guide, but don't try to copy them exactly. You only want to suggest the weathering, not obliterate the lettering. There is obviously more to this than I have explained here, but this should get you started in the right direction. Experiment with some other cars first until you are satisfied with your technique and results. Much better to mess up some other road's car rather than a perfectly good Pennsy cabin. Best of luck. C. Burnley -----Original Message----- From: ERIC LAUTERBACH [mailto:lauterbach@peachnet.campuscwix.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:11 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I am finally getting around to weathering my rolling stock. I am using a mix of either grimmy black and air brusk thinner or engine black and air brush thinner. The results are not bad, but now I am wondering about the N5 and N5c Bowser cabin cars that I have. Does anyone have any thoughts on weathering cabin cars? I would like some input before I try anything. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Burnley, Charles" Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:31:14 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Burnley, Charles Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:45 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars Eric, I use Floquil engine black (very thin) as the base coat. Spray very lightly from below the car sides & ends. Darkest at the very bottom of the car, lighter as you go toward the belt rail. After this dries, I spray Floquil rail brown (again very thin) the same as I did the black, from the bottom up. Concentrate just a little extra at each end sill directly in line with each wheel. This simulates road dirt that is kicked up by the turbulance of the moving train. Remember "less is more"! Keep it thin and light. Try to get some good color photographs to use as a guide, but don't try to copy them exactly. You only want to suggest the weathering, not obliterate the lettering. There is obviously more to this than I have explained here, but this should get you started in the right direction. Experiment with some other cars first until you are satisfied with your technique and results. Much better to mess up some other road's car rather than a perfectly good Pennsy cabin. Best of luck. C. Burnley -----Original Message----- From: ERIC LAUTERBACH [mailto:lauterbach@peachnet.campuscwix.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:11 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I am finally getting around to weathering my rolling stock. I am using a mix of either grimmy black and air brusk thinner or engine black and air brush thinner. The results are not bad, but now I am wondering about the N5 and N5c Bowser cabin cars that I have. Does anyone have any thoughts on weathering cabin cars? I would like some input before I try anything. Thanks, Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:34:00 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I usually don't double post, but I am forwarding this response to the PRR-Talk list to the Prototype Modeler list as well, as someone on the PM list may have the answer: In a message dated 8/25/00 11:44:22 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << By regulation, wheels and couplers on the prototype are NEVER painted. This prevents cracks from being hidden. As a result they are rust, dirt, and oil colored. >> I seem to remember reading that this requirement not to paint wheels changed sometime in the modern era, due to materials changes. Or now, not only am I losing my memory, am I creating a new one? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DATSMan@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:58:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars I know at least on Conrail, the wheels were never painted and it was my understanding this was by law. Bob O'Leary ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] X-29 look alikes Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:07:57 -0700 There were a few railroads that had cars that looked like Pennsy X-29s as built. Reading RR had some as did the B&O with its' X26c. I have noticed HO and N guage manufactures producing X-29s in other railroad paint schemes. My question is, were these exactly like the X-29s? Greg Stone Member PRRTHS Special interest Renovo Yards Always looking for info or photos of Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:44:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 look alikes Greg, Some other roads did actually have X29-type cars besides the Pennsy. B&O's M26 cars were the most numerous, with upwards of ten thousand copies. B&M had 20, CNJ over six hundred, CGW nearly a thousand, L&NE had 700-odd, MC had around a thousand (many in that neat green paint) and W&LE had some that ended up in NKP paint. N&W had similar cars that were slightly taller. There were probably others (eg, Hannibal Connecting had some, used I think), but that's a start. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:46:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shells In a message dated 8/24/00 12:06:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: > On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Andrews, Ted wrote: > > > PRR Listers: > > > > Has anyone seen these decorated shells yet? If so, is the brunswick green > > the right shade or is it too green? > > I have one on my shelf; I'll look at it later > > -D > I've seen them also I thought they looked good, but since I never saw the original Pennsy F7's (I'm 27) I'll let an "elder SPF" give a definative answer. Brian J carlson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shells On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 FarbLand@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/24/00 12:06:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > shadow@dementia.org writes: > > > On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Andrews, Ted wrote: > > > > > PRR Listers: > > > > > > Has anyone seen these decorated shells yet? If so, is the brunswick green > > > the right shade or is it too green? > > > > I have one on my shelf; I'll look at it later > > > > -D > > > I've seen them also I thought they looked good, but since I never saw the > original Pennsy F7's (I'm 27) I'll let an "elder SPF" give a definative > answer. That would not be me;-) (I'm also 27...) That said: Oh yes, these are way too green. They're not "Athearn F7 Brunswick Green" but they rank up there with the Kato SD40 for "too green". One of the sprues has ladders and skirts which are molded in the green plastic like the rest, but are (presumably painted) black, those are considerably more reasonable. The red in the keystone doesn't look dark enough, either. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JDPanza@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:20:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Weathering a PRR Cabin Cars AAR Interchange Rules prohibit the painting of wheels, axles and couplers due to the fact that the paint may hide cracks. A light "fog" paint is permitted on truck bolsters and side frames. In a message dated 8/25/00 7:05:12 PM Central Daylight Time, DATSMan@aol.com writes: > I know at least on Conrail, the wheels were never painted and it was my > understanding this was by law. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:54:47 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] P-70far trucks Hello all... As i model in H.O. i was wondering who makes correct trucks (or a facimile there of) of the trucks used under these cars. Is class 2D-P5 ? correct? I'd almost be willing to find a couple of Bachmann cars on E-bay if i have to go that route,just to get the trucks(i can always use the bodies for something else). Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 00:06:24 -0700 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 look alikes Greg, The short answer to your question is, no--not all were exactly alike. When it comes to tooling costs for models, as I'm sure has been said many times in the past, manufacturers will put paint schemes on cars that in the prototype never wore them, but they can't afford to tool all the usually small differences from one railroad's version of a car to another's. The X29 was proposed by the PRR as a USRA standard car design, but the folks at NYC who also voted on design acceptances were bitterly opposed to it. Part of their reasoning was somewhat sound in that there were some design flaws that caused early rusting along the sills etc., but the major reason was that they (the NYC) and the PRR were always at odds with each other. In the interim, while the board was haggling about the design, the Pennsy went ahead and started building them, and a lot of other railroads cloned them. Some had the plate ends of the x29, some had 7/8 Murphy ends, and others had 3/4 (?)dreadnaught ends. Those, besides different doors were the major differences. I've made up a list with many of the differences (no, it's not 100% comprehensive in all the detail differences, and it probably doesn't include every railroad that ever owned any, nor does it incorporate all the rebuilds that were done over the years by the owners, but it's reasonable good for most purposes of identification. Chuck Friedlein Greg Stone wrote: > There were a few railroads that had cars that looked like Pennsy X-29s as > built. Reading RR had some as did the B&O with its' X26c. I have noticed HO > and N guage manufactures producing X-29s in other railroad paint schemes. My > question is, were these exactly like the X-29s? > > Greg Stone > Member PRRTHS > Special interest Renovo Yards > Always looking for info or photos of Renovo Yards > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] X-29 look alikes Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:56:41 -0400 Greg:- They were not exactly the same, but very, very, similar. The X29 was proposed as an ARA (predecessor to AAR) standard but never adopted. Most Eastern roads had these cars. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Stone" To: "PRR talk" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 10:07 PM Subject: [PRR] X-29 look alikes > There were a few railroads that had cars that looked like Pennsy X-29s as > built. Reading RR had some as did the B&O with its' X26c. I have noticed HO > and N guage manufactures producing X-29s in other railroad paint schemes. My > question is, were these exactly like the X-29s? > > Greg Stone > Member PRRTHS > Special interest Renovo Yards > Always looking for info or photos of Renovo Yards > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: [PRR] Painting Trucks Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:25:04 EDT >I know at least on Conrail, the wheels were never painted and it was my >understanding this was by law. ___________________________________________________________________ Before the law against painting rail car truck frames, some RRs did paint their trucks (and, occasionally, some couplers) with the same color as the car. When I visited the =Wetsern Maryland= shops in Hagerstown and Union Bridge, I saw trucks and couplers painted in oxide Red. This, of course, was in the 1960's and early 70's. It is a practice long since abandoned. And don't think you can look at builder's photos for a clue. Often, subjects were given a wash of water soluble gray paint so the details would show up in a black and white picture. Best bet is to check color photos and slides from the era you are modeling. Andrew Harmantas, SPF from down near C&O Milepost FM Zero. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:47:19 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] troop cars Evan, If you are referring to the ex-PS troop cars and the ACF Kitchen cars converted to baggage/express/mail service, Yes but only as interchanged from foreign lines such as New Haven, BM, CB&Q, ect... They did not purchase any after the war from the war surplus board. Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:51:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Intermountain PRR F-7 shells Ted, I saw the Intermountain Shells at San Jose this past month and I would NOT BUY A DECORATED SHELL. I personally thing the color is wrong, but you all be the judge. I don't understand why companies don't just start with black and work backwards... The closer to black the better IMHO... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Graeme Nitz" Subject: [PRR] APOLOGY Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:36:10 +1000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C0105E.0D6580A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Listers This is an apology for all the trouble that my "Virus" attack has = called. The virus in question was W32/Plage.worm.gen or Troj_plage2000.a which = got into my Outlook Express and converted all my incoming Emails into = outgoing to the sender with a copy of itself as an Attachment.I just = hope no-one opened one of these attachments as this means they now have = the virus. I f you have got it I would suggest you delete the files inetd.exe, = user.ns2 & user.ns3 in your windows directory and delete the command Run = inetd.exein your Win.ini=20 I tried 3 different virus programs and none would find this damn virus = even though as it turns out all 3 had it in their library. Thanks to all the people who sent me emails with suggestions. Much = appreciated. Middle fingers are raised at all the idiots who sent me Discusting = and/or threatening emails. Geez guys did you think I did it on purpose. In conclusion I again apologise to anyone I have inadvertantly hurt and = thaks to those who tried to help.=20 Graeme Nitz PRRT&HS Member #1313 An Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak" With a touch of Reading ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C0105E.0D6580A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Listers

This is an apology for all the trouble = that my=20 "Virus" attack has called.

The virus in question was = W32/Plage.worm.gen=20 or Troj_plage2000.a which got into my Outlook Express and = converted all my=20 incoming Emails into outgoing to the sender with a copy of itself as an=20 Attachment.I just hope no-one opened one of these attachments as this = means they=20 now have the virus.

I f you have got it I would suggest you = delete the=20 files inetd.exe, user.ns2 & user.ns3 in your windows directory and = delete=20 the command Run inetd.exein your Win.ini

I tried 3 different virus programs and = none would=20 find this damn virus even though as it turns out all 3 had it in their=20 library.

Thanks to all the people who sent me = emails with=20 suggestions. Much appreciated.

Middle fingers are raised at all the = idiots who=20 sent me Discusting and/or threatening emails. Geez guys did you think I = did it=20 on purpose.

In conclusion I again apologise to = anyone I have=20 inadvertantly hurt and thaks to those who tried to = help.

Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member = #1313
An=20 Aussie "Slobbering Pennsy Freak"
With a touch of=20 Reading
------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C0105E.0D6580A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:36:46 -0700 From: Frank Bagrash Subject: [PRR] lettering color Hi, Does anybody know the exact color of the lettering used by the LIRR on passenger cars during the 1940's? Thank you. Frank -- Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) P.O. Box 6846 California State University Fullerton, California 92834-6846 E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu Boogie gently, babies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:00:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR to L&NE According to "History of Lehigh and New England Railroad Company" (Editor Randolph L. Kulp Lehigh Valley Chapter, NRHS, 1972) four of the PRR L1s class went to LNE to become their Class G1: Data common to all four (according to the book): L1s (2-8-2): 27x30 in. cylinders, 205 p.s.i. boiler pressure, 61,465 lbs. Tractive Effort, 232,500 lbs. weight on drivers, and 324,700 lbs. total wesight. Unique data: LNE 501: PRR 1318 (Juniata Construction Number 2934) built May 1915. LNE bought 1318 on February 13, 1941. Scrapped, Bethlehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa., October 27, 1948. LNE 502: PRR 190 (Juniata Construction Number 3108) built August 1916. LNE bought 190 on March 25, 1941. Scrapped, Bethlehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa., October 27, 1948. LNE 503: PRR 1719 (Juniata Construction Number 3417) built February 1918. LNE bought 1719 on October 3, 1941. Scrapped, Lipsett Steel Products, Coatesville, Pa., May 28, 1950. LNE 504: PRR 1986 (Baldwin Construction Number 49849) built September 1918. LNE bought1986 on October 3, 1941. Scrapped, Bethlehem Steel in Bethlehem, Pa., October 27, 1948. One photo in the book: No. 502 at Penn Argyl engine terminal on June 4, 1948. --Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] lettering color Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:06:40 -0400 Frank: I grew up on Long Island in the 1940's and recall that the LIRR cars were the same colors as the PRR cars, tuscan red with "dulux gold" lettering which was pretty well faded to a buff or straw color. In the early '50's LIRR began repainting all passenger cars a light battleship gray to conceal its PRR affiliation, and when it was sold to the state in 1955, all cars were rebuilt and painted dark gray if not scrapped (and a lot were scrapped). Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Bagrash" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:36 PM Subject: [PRR] lettering color > Hi, > > Does anybody know the exact color of the lettering used by the LIRR on > passenger cars during the 1940's? Thank you. > > Frank > > -- > Frank M. Bagrash, Ph.D. 714-278-2669 > Department of Psychology 714-278-7134 (Fax) > P.O. Box 6846 > California State University > Fullerton, California 92834-6846 > E-mail: fbagrash@fullerton.edu > Boogie gently, babies > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Matthew J. Brown" Subject: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 08:56:56 -0700 What was the base color of streamlined K4s #3768? Model Railroader's 'Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia' says 'dark bronze' -- is this correct? & if so, what do they mean by this? -Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:33:22 -0400 Having never heard of a PRR locomotive painted "dark bronze", which I would interpret to be a dark greenish brown, I wonder if some of the unusual colors model manufacturers apply to PRR models aren't attempts to match the colors on PRR calendar paintings? The artists invariably lightened the colors of dark objects so they would not appear as large black "blobs". Some of the steam locomotives rendered in the 1930's calendars did have a brownish cast (or possibly the calendars I was looking at faded with age). The same would apply to Diesels painted DGLE. Gregg Mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew J. Brown" To: "PRR Talk List" Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 11:56 AM Subject: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 > What was the base color of streamlined K4s #3768? Model Railroader's 'Steam > Locomotive Cyclopedia' says 'dark bronze' -- is this correct? & if so, what > do they mean by this? > > -Matt > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steven Bundick" Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:55:24 -0400 Bob- The book "On the Main Line" by Alexander has some good photos of the station from two different eras. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bob Colquitt To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:24 PM Subject: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve >Does anyone know of where I can get copies of the drawings for the >Kittanning Pt. passenger station at the Horseshoe Curve? and photos? > >Also, does anyone know when it was taken out of service and when it was >torn down? > >In the book "Horseshoe Curve", the photos show the station was in place >in 1936 and boarded up, but gone with a pair of Centipedes growling past >the area in 1953. > >There was a coaling station east of the station and in some of the >photos, there seems to be a track above leading to the coaler. With the >wye further west around the 'curve', where did this track tie in? Though >a switchback just west of the freight house? > >Though the photos are a touch grainy in "Horseshoe Curve", it looks to >be a nice station to model with the apparent stone facade and not that large. > >Thanks for any help, >--Bob > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:03:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 In a message dated 8/27/00 1:21:06 PM Central Daylight Time, morven@byz.org writes: << What was the base color of streamlined K4s #3768? Model Railroader's 'Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia' says 'dark bronze' -- is this correct? & if so, what do they mean by this? >> For all the times this has been asked, one would think someone could come up with a definitive answer. Some possibilities: a. It really was a dark bronze. I'll let someone else tranlate that to Pollyscale colors :-). b. It was specified gunmetal color by Raymond Loewy (I swear I remember reading this somewhere, but can't find it and I have even bought a book by him at a premium) and it was gunmetal color as we know it. c. Raymond Loewy was a European and, while I don't know offhand when he emigrated to this country, someone on another list said that in England (don't know about the continent) gunmetal was what we call bronze and this was what he meant and what they painted it. I wonder if his coworker who was interviewed years ago in the Keystone is still around to ask the question. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Pt. psgr station @ Horseshoe Curve The Kittanning Point station was built in 1892 it remained open till 1935. it was razed in 1941-42. There were three branches from the curve. Two on either side of the Glenn White Run and one up the West side of Kittanning Run. The branch up Kittanning run ( Beside the freight station) ran to the town of Coupon. It was used mostly for coal. There was some passenger service. This branch also connected via switch back to the overhead coaling bridge. The branch was closed in 1917.--Mark L .---- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:53:35 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 > c. Raymond Loewy was a European and, while I don't know offhand when he > emigrated to this country, someone on another list said that in England > (don't know about the continent) gunmetal was what we call bronze and this > was what he meant and what they painted it. Yep. 'gunmetal' is a specific formulation of bronze. (canons (guns) were cast thereform & the name stuck.) 'bronze' like 'steel' comes in a near endless array of formulations, unlike steel, the colour varies. Hopefully some archivist has ''dupont colour coude fooo' figgered out... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:01:13 EDT Subject: [PRR] But evereything was a dingy dull gray 40 years ago In a message dated 8/27/00 1:59:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TGREGMRTN@aol.com writes: << Ted, I saw the Intermountain Shells at San Jose this past month and I would NOT BUY A DECORATED SHELL. I personally thing the color is wrong, but you all be the judge. I don't understand why companies don't just start with black and work backwards... The closer to black the better IMHO... Greg Martin >> Greg, When you lived in East Liverpool, Ohio, and Columbiana County the Clean Air Act had not been passed yet. Everything back east in those days looked black, even in places as far west as Dayton. I can remember my astonishment when in the early 1970s major renovations wee made of the Dayton Main post office and the Dayton Art Institute. I had spent more than 15 years of my life (1955-1970) thinking of both as black stone buildings. Once the soot of coal and coke smoke was removed both stood suddenly stood out light gray or buff colored limestone structures The same would have been true of Dayton's Union Terminal if the PRR/NYC claque preparing for the merger had decided in renovating this unusual Italianate structure with its tall slender clock tower instead of razing it in 1965. While I remember it as having a uniformly dingy soot gray exterior, early photos of the building light colored brick with lighter limestone trim. It is a measure of the effectiveness of environmental laws of the past three decades that the all of Dayton's steam era stone structures mentioned above are still that "new color." Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:27:27 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Correct PRR colors From: Fred G Rea With all the talk about the "correct" colors for DGLE, PRR Tuscan, lettering etc, has anyone worked out the correct color mix for PRR grunge? This is the grey/tan color that Tom V mentions in an earlier post. It is the most important color PRR modelers should have. A not so light coat of it should be sprayed on everything. To see what I mean, there was a color shot of an RPO in the Keystone a few years ago. I was convinced it was a "coach green" car until I saw a tiny bit of Tuscan showing through. I am half kidding, but also very serious. Spraying all my equipment would do more to make it look like the PRR that I remember than anything I can think of. I think a diluted mix of Poly Scale grimy black and depot buff would be a good start. Any better ideas? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] M class in RENOVO? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:57:34 -0700 Does anyone have evidence of any M class steam on the Renovo division? If yes do you know the engine class and number? --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dave Mittner" Subject: [PRR] Train #72 (The Admiral) consist? Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:55:51 -0700 Hi List, I have recently been commissioned to do a new painting of a Pennsy T-1 pulling Train #72, The Admiral, back in 1943 set somewhere in Indiana or Ohio. My question is, what was the basic makeup of this train? i.e., headend equipment, coaches, parlors, observation, diner,etc? Is there any available reference material that can help me to determine its usual consist? Thanks for any help, Dave Dave's Gallery of Fine Railroad Art. http://www.users.uswest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:46:26 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Indiana Depots For those who may beinterested... I have finally sorted out my photos of depots in Madison County Indiana and put them all on one page on my Railroads of Madison County site. 1890, 1910 and 1930 Pennsy station photos taken in Anderson plus Elwood and Frankton. Just take the stations link a http://madisonrails.railfan.net Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:57:20 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70far trucks ECW makes a correct (or nearly so) P70 and P70FAR truck. The problem is getting them to work! MDC used to make a very nice rolling "Pennsy Roller Bearing" truck which worked even better with Reboxx wheels, but they stopped production about 2 years ago :-(( I'm with you Hank. I wish Bachmann offered parts. I'd buy their trucks (and a 110P75 tender). regards, Andy Miller =================================== bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hello all... > > As i model in H.O. i was wondering who makes correct trucks > (or a facimile there of) of the trucks used under > these cars. Is class 2D-P5 ? correct? > I'd almost be willing to find a couple of Bachmann > cars on E-bay if i have to go that route,just to get > the trucks(i can always use the bodies for something > else). > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] This is sad From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:05:01 -0500 This article was in today's Ashtabula Star Beacon. Kinda sad to see an article with such little research put into a news paper. I did not correct any of the spelling errors. Penn Centrol controlled trails property for years By FRANK OBERNYER Staff Writer The Pennsylvania Railroad, which once owned the now abandoned rail line to be used for much of the Great Ohio Lake-to-River Greenway, sold to Penn Central after 120 years of operations. Penn had control of the line for only a couple of years, and then sold it to the state of Ohio for the 'much debated, but never built' bullet train, which would have connected the state capital, and points in between, with the North Coast and the 'much talked about, but never built' steel mill in Conneaut. The original rail line, before it belonged to the Pennsylvania Railroad, was constructed by the Vanderbilt family, and was known as the Ashtabula-to-Youngstown-to-Pittsburgh line. The Vanderbilts shipped upper Great Lakes' iron ore south and West Virginia and southern Ohio coal north. The path selected by the Vanderbilts was the ancient pathway used by local Lake Erie Indian tribes, who traveled south to salt outcroppings in the Warren area. The pathway became to north�south turnpike for early European settlers until the railroad took over, realizing the route was the shortest distance between the lake and points south. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Train #72 (The Admiral) consist? Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:22:47 -0400 Dave: A passenger timetable will be a start. In most timetables, a typical consist would be listed giving you the type of passenger cars (10/5 Pullmans, 12-1's, etc.) But for the exact names of the cars and number and type of head end equipment, a consist book would be needed. In regards to your painting, any particular area that you want the settling to be? If you are interested, I could give you some leads on books that have published pictures of the Fort Wayne Line. Ted Andrews P.S. your brother is painting a Westside K-5 for me. ;) -----Original Message----- From: Dave Mittner [mailto:mittner@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 9:56 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Train #72 (The Admiral) consist? Hi List, I have recently been commissioned to do a new painting of a Pennsy T-1 pulling Train #72, The Admiral, back in 1943 set somewhere in Indiana or Ohio. My question is, what was the basic makeup of this train? i.e., headend equipment, coaches, parlors, observation, diner,etc? Is there any available reference material that can help me to determine its usual consist? Thanks for any help, Dave Dave's Gallery of Fine Railroad Art. http://www.users.uswest.net/~mittner/davesart.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:21:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions From: Jerry Britton I had the challenge of being a single parent over the past three days. Since I've brainwashed both kids into liking trains, I decided a trip to Altoona was in order. Due to the ages of the kids (2 & 7), an extended trip was not possible. We left home at 8 a.m. and were back by 8 p.m. HOWEVER, in six hours we saw 21 trains! Pretty darn good for a Saturday...and since we spent over an hour of those six within the walls of the Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum. So, it was really 21 trains in five hours! The highlight was a rare five-way meet at Cresson! A set of helpers was on track #3 in MO. Another set was on the leads to the engine facility. A westbound merchandise came speeding through on track #3 (#4 through MO) as a coal drag headed west coming off of the Irvonia Secondary. While all this was going on, an eastbound trucktrain thundered through on track #1. Wow! The new scanner was super! I ended up with the Radio Shack Pro 79 (which has a faster scan rate than the lower priced Pro 75). It was on sale from $149 to $99...so you may want to check it out. Many said to avoid Radio Shack...get a Bearcat. However, three people on other lists cited that both the Radio Shack and the Bearcat are both made by Uniden. I did not get an optional antenna, but with the built-in one I could still get the Altoona yard up at the Curve. Couldn't get much from the west, but that's understandable, given the geography. I did buy a $30 magnetic antenna for the car. At Cresson, I was still able to get the Altoona yard. Was excellent being able sit in the A/C while others sweated outside, only to get out of the car moments before trains turned the corners and came into view! More importantly, I now no longer risk leaving a location just before a train arrives! I highly recommend getting a scanner. It really changes the experience! Anyway, got a few questions: 1. PRR typically ran passenger traffic on the inner two rails, interlocking them otherwise for special station situations (Harrisburg, Lewistown, Altoona, etc.). At Altoona, a wb Amtrak train leaves Altoona on track #3 up the hill. In PRR days, was a wb train leaving Altoona routed to track #3 (since #4 still existed)? And were wb freights routed to track #4? If so, I assume this would happen at ALTO. In other words, did the PRR use the "traditional" track assignments on "the hill"? Tending to support the "traditional" assignments are the passenger stations at Gallitzin and Cresson. They are positioned to serve track #2 eastbound and track #3 westbound. 2. The yard at Cresson that existed behind MO tower and below the flyover to the Black Lick Secondary: was this a "coal marshalling" yard for coal coming off of the secondary? Or did it have another use? 3. The engine facility at Cresson: When did it convert from predominantly steam (w/roundhouse) to diesel? If not an exact year, what was it likely in 1954? 4. Helpers/Snappers: When adding helpers at Altoona, I have read references to them adding on at ALTO or WORKS, which would place the head end close to SLOPE or ALTO, respectively. Which location was more common in the 1950's? (The reference in question is the RailPace guide to Altoona.) All for now. I'm sure I'll think of more once I hit the Send key! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Color of streamlined K4s #3768 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:21:50 -0400 Listers, I have in my possesion a Humbrol colour card. (Humbrol makes paints for the British plastic modellers and model railroaders) It has a colour in it called Bronze green (used on British tanks in WWII) It looks an awful lot like DGLE. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Correct PRR colors Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:56:06 -0700 Fred and all, While most of us wholly agree with the importance of putting on that weathering coat (some DON"T like it), you might want to maintain a degree of control on that coat that mixing colors just won't allow. Grimy black is great for roofs and earth colors are great for undercarriages, but there should also be some other colors to give it depth, varied by location (Ohio valley and W Pa was redder) type of eqpt (blacks for E units and pass cars, browns and highly varied mixes for frt cars, grime and rust for diesels). There's also the issue of what looks "right" on the little guys. I have noticed over the years that overall grey doesn't look right on models. You have to warm it up some. This is even more important on models in artificial light. That light forces things into a grey green blue color spectrum that doesn't really resemble the real world. So, if I can give one piece of advise, whatever you overshoot with, follow it up with a seperate (10:1) warming agent like Floquil Rust or Earth or Orange. Monitor it closely and stop before you go too far. Examine it under different light, and if you want more, add another thin coat. elden -----Original Message----- From: Fred G Rea [mailto:fredrea@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:27 PM To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: garrett.rea@worldnet.ATT.net Subject: [PRR] Correct PRR colors With all the talk about the "correct" colors for DGLE, PRR Tuscan, lettering etc, has anyone worked out the correct color mix for PRR grunge? This is the grey/tan color that Tom V mentions in an earlier post. It is the most important color PRR modelers should have. A not so light coat of it should be sprayed on everything. To see what I mean, there was a color shot of an RPO in the Keystone a few years ago. I was convinced it was a "coach green" car until I saw a tiny bit of Tuscan showing through. I am half kidding, but also very serious. Spraying all my equipment would do more to make it look like the PRR that I remember than anything I can think of. I think a diluted mix of Poly Scale grimy black and depot buff would be a good start. Any better ideas? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:46:32 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Is the list dead, or doth he sleep? Yeah, which? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:07:52 EDT Subject: [PRR] Keystones to trade Hi list, I thought I would give the first opportunity to the list before posting this to the Backshop or EBay. I have the following Keystone Magazines (all in excellent condition) to trade: 1999 - Full year 1998 - Full year 1997 - Autumn, Winter 1996 - Full year, Winter 1995 - Winter I am looking for: 1990 - Full year 1989 - Full year 1981 - March, December 1980 or earlier - All issues If interested, contact me off list. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:16:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] TYRONE STATION Greetings to List; Thought you would like to know that the Borough of Tyrone, Pennsylvania on the former PRR MAIN LINE Middle Division (at Jct of ex-PRR Bald Eagle Branch) has a new Railroad (Transportation Center) Station under construction. Although it does not resemble the prior 2 + 1/2 story brick ediface (which should have been preserved and fell to the wrecker's ball immediately after the Penn Central merger), the new passenger station is, nonetheless, being constructed in the best example of PRR architecture. The new station is rectangular, with a striking hip roof design in Vermont Green with verticle seams. The windows have definite PRR architectural details and are painted in three colors: Hunter green , trimmed in tan, and outlined in maroon (we'll say Tuscan Red). The exterior walls appear similar to wainscoating from floor to roof in light cream. The west end of the building has an extended platform canopy with an expansion on the extreme west end. The east end of the building has a circular drive/turn around for vehicles. The entire area is referred to locally at Railroad Park and has two cabooses (actually, a Conrail Caboose and a PRR Cabin) across the street from the station, as is a nicely designed oval gazebo with seasonal flowers planted around the perimeter. Tyrone, although somewhat late, is restoring the former glory of their passenger station area, replacing at long last, the bus stop open air shelter that bears absolutely no resemblance to a railroad passenger facility. While the station boarding area is far from complete, the two single tracks passing the site are a far cry from the 5 that dominated the area pre-1968. It's still a great place to watch trains. Tyrone will, no doubt, continue to be a flag stop, but, at long last, there is a suitable structure to garner community pride and, perhaps, increase boardings at this location. That is, if NS would let Amtrak operate on the ADVERTISED SCHEDULE. Dave Seidel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:42:14 -0400 Subject: [PRR] New N Scale Passenger Car Sides Coming!!! From: Jerry Britton Laser Horizons, makers of passenger car sides for HO scale, has announced N scale versions of the entire line. Where HO sides require an Eastern Car Works core kit, use American Limited's N scale core kit. There are 13 different cars currently available for advance reservations -- including pre-war and post-war Pullmans and a few post-war ACF cars. They are due to ship by October 1st. For more information, see http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com/forms/shopping/ For search criteria, enter: Manufacturer = Laser Horizons Category = N Scale This is indeed great news for N scalers!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Joe Zappa Hello all... I need some help. Does anyone on the list have a current phone number for Joe Zappa ? This would be for the last month or so. I had talked to his (ex ?) wife about three monthes ago concerning what was going on and i would like to contact him (or her) if i can. I have the (724) 962-2823 number,but its not working now. Any help will be appreciated. Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:30:42 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Web Server Down From: Jerry Britton Early this evening one of the servers at Desktop Solutions experienced a failure. We've been working on the situation for several hours and we believe we have identified the fault as a piece of hardware. Unfortunately, we are unable to contact the manufacturer at this hour to ascertain the next step to rectify the situation. We will be on the problem immediately in the morning. In the mean time, the following domains' web sites are down: BRASSTRAINS.NET DSOP.COM PENNSYRR.COM RAILFANCENTRAL.COM WIRINGFORDCC.COM We apologize for this inconvenience and will work to make it as short as possible. Thank you in advance for your patience. The good news is that the listserv is operating at this time. (And all this is to avoid folks thinking we are out of business!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:25:30 -0400 From: "David (Fresh) Freshwater" Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions Jerry Britton wrote: > > > Anyway, got a few questions: > > 1. PRR typically ran passenger traffic on the inner two rails, interlocking > them otherwise for special station situations (Harrisburg, Lewistown, > Altoona, etc.). At Altoona, a wb Amtrak train leaves Altoona on track #3 up > the hill. In PRR days, was a wb train leaving Altoona routed to track #3 > (since #4 still existed)? And were wb freights routed to track #4? If so, I > assume this would happen at ALTO. > > In other words, did the PRR use the "traditional" track assignments on "the > hill"? > > Tending to support the "traditional" assignments are the passenger stations > at Gallitzin and Cresson. They are positioned to serve track #2 eastbound > and track #3 westbound. > Look at pages 70-71 in Triumph I. Diagram on the bottom of 70, from July 1, 1945, shows trains using the crossover at GY to swap passenger trains from outside at Slope to inside at the top of the hill. Diagram at the top of 71, for 1958, is harder to read. GY is gone. But, down on the right side below the track, it says from MO to Slope #1 is East Freight, #2 is East Passenger, #3 is West Freigh and #4 is West Passenger. So it looks like when GY went out of service, they used the Slope interlocking. Dave Freshwater PRRT&HS 5630 Cyber PRR North Potomac, MD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:12:12 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions From: Jerry Britton On 8/29/00 12:25 AM, David (Fresh) Freshwater at (dfresh20@erols.com) wrote: > Look at pages 70-71 in Triumph I. Diagram on the bottom of 70, from July 1, > 1945, shows trains using the crossover at GY to swap passenger trains from > outside at Slope to inside at the top of the hill. Diagram at the top of 71, > for 1958, is harder to read. GY is gone. But, down on the right side below > the > track, it says from MO to Slope #1 is East Freight, #2 is East Passenger, #3 > is > West Freigh and #4 is West Passenger. So it looks like when GY went out of > service, they used the Slope interlocking. > Thanks, but not that this is still not "traditional". Traditional would have #3 be WB passenger, not freight and #4 WB freight, not passenger. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:11:55 EDT From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions All: Passenger trains ran the curve such that the passengers had unobstructed views of the curve i.e. the outside tracks. Also pullman cars and all other cars with passage ways along one side of the car were oriented so that the "rooms" had a view of the curve EB rooms were on the right side of the train and wb they were on the left side of the train. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:22:40 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Fireless Cookers & creosoting plants Bob Colquitt wrote: > The boiler of a "fireless cooker" is built like a regular boiler except > no firebox. It is mostly filled with water and steam is pumped into it. > The water absorbs the steam and energy. The entire boiler is wrapped > heavily in insulation; more than a regular steam engine. If the water > cools off, the engine looses it's power. Just so. The 'filled with steam' is an over simplification. Other applications: hospitals, food processing, paper mills. Anyplace where cleanliness was indicated... best dwp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:19:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions From: "Doug and Marianne" >From a previous post: > Passenger trains ran the curve such that the passengers had unobstructed > views of the curve i.e. the outside tracks. Also pullman cars and all > other cars with passage ways along one side of the car were oriented so > that the "rooms" had a view of the curve EB rooms were on the right side of > the train and wb they were on the left side of the train. I don't mean to start any arguments, but I politely question whether any of this is true. Are there any sources to document this? Even if this was desired in theory, in practice this was not very feasible due to the large amount of traffic over the hill. I have seen photos of passenger trains on all four tracks at Horseshoe Curve. As for Pullman cars, the vast majority of these passed Horseshoe Curve in the dead of night. I have never heard of Pennsy arranging room cars for views at the Curve. This would also be difficult as all trains entering Sunnyside Yard via the loop track, thus turning all cars. Even if they wanted to arrange individual cars to face a certain direction I don't think that the track plans would facilitate another turning. I have heard that New York Central kept all its 20th Century Limited all-room Pullmans facing the Hudson River, but this was feasible because the train was returned to Mott Haven Yard via a backup move with the yard switcher pulling the observation car. The train was then broken up and all cars except the all-room Pullmans were turned on the wye. This practice was also desirable because the 20th Century traveled along most of the Hudson in daylight in both directions (sunrise and sunset). We should all strive to pass factual information over on this list. If information can support these statements, then I will find it very educational. If not, I feel compelled to question the accuracy of these statements. With all due respect: Doug Nelson Mill Valley, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:53:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] corridor-room orientation (was Altoona Area Railfanning In a message dated 8/29/00 10:35:42 PM Central Daylight Time, babal@slip.net writes: << I don't mean to start any arguments, but I politely question whether any of this is true. Are there any sources to document this? >> As Yogi (Berra, not Bear) said, "deja vu all over again". The statement that the rooms faced out on the curve and replies questioning that statement appeared before on the list. I don't remember the outcome. In the middle of the discussion, I asked and never got a satisfactory answer as to what was turned at Chicago (other than the observation) and how. Guess I will try and look at photos and videos and see if any deductions can be made. Bkob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70far trucks Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:54:36 -0500 Andy--Haven't seen any response to your question, so let me tell you what I have done to make the ECW trucks work. First cut off the truck mounted coupler pad. Kadee 36" wheel sets will work, NWSL will not. Trim the bolsters where there is contact with the wheels. Glue the bolster and sideframes together with the wheels in place, then place on a piece of track to keep everything square. Gently hold it in place until the glue starts to stiffen the assembly. After it has dried at least overnight, there may be some places you can reinforce with styrene scraps. If done carefully the reinforcements will not be visible outside the sideframes. I have a half dozen P70's as well as two brass Alco R50b's riding on these trucks with no problems once I worked out the assembly. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:24:08 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: Web/FTP Sites Down From: Jerry Britton UPDATE: The failed component turned out to be a part on the logic board. Complicating matters, replacement logic boards for the unit in question are a 4-6 week wait. Add to that the fact that the investment in a replacement for a 9 year old computer isn't advisable, we've opted to order a replacement system. We will be moving from an 80MHz first generation PowerPC processor to a 400MHz fourth generation PowerPC processor. The increased speed in online database and eStore searches should be unbelievable. We have confirmed our backup tapes as fully viable and implementation of the new machine should proceed very quickly. Thank you again for your patience. On 8/28/00 11:28 PM, Hostmaster at (hostmaster@dsop.com) wrote: > Early this evening one of the servers at Desktop Solutions experienced a > failure. We've been working on the situation for several hours and we > believe we have identified the fault as a piece of hardware. Unfortunately, > we are unable to contact the manufacturer at this hour to ascertain the next > step to rectify the situation. We will be on the problem immediately in the > morning. > > In the mean time, the following domains' web sites are down: > > BRASSTRAINS.NET > DSOP.COM > PENNSYRR.COM > RAILFANCENTRAL.COM > WIRINGFORDCC.COM > > We apologize for this inconvenience and will work to make it as short as > possible. Thank you in advance for your patience. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:30:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Altoona Area Railfanning Brings Questions From: Jerry Britton On 8/29/00 11:19 PM, Doug and Marianne at (babal@slip.net) wrote: > From a previous post: > >> Passenger trains ran the curve such that the passengers had unobstructed >> views of the curve i.e. the outside tracks. Also pullman cars and all >> other cars with passage ways along one side of the car were oriented so >> that the "rooms" had a view of the curve EB rooms were on the right side of >> the train and wb they were on the left side of the train. > I question this as well. I'll have to look at photos of westbounds to confirm. It has been documented elsewhere that corridors were on the left side of each car...so that noise from trains passing in the opposite direction would be minimized. For eastbounds, this would place rooms with a view of the curve. Westbounds, in this manner however, would face away. Obviously, the entire train was turned at New York (Sunnyside). What remains unspoken was whether or not trains were turned (wyed) at western points. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:26:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Track Assignments From: Jerry Britton We really need to locate a 1950's era Mountain Division ETT to find out about track assignments around the Curve. In reviewing a 1955 Middle Division ETT, I'm finding some things I didn't expect. We knew the Philadelphia Div. fed the Middle Div. as follows: 1 2 3 4 EB P WB P EB F EB P We thought VIEW realigned as follows: 1 2 3 4 EB F EB P WB P WB F But the ETT indicates that from VIEW to TUNNEL its: 1 2 3 4 EB P EB F WB F WB P This answers my other unspoken question: Where did passenger trains realign for Lewistown. Later, from ALTO thru SLOPE 1 2 3 4 EB F WB F EB P WB P There is no note from SLOPE to Mountain Division Point, but it appears that passenger trains were on the outer two tracks of the Curve. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Tom Kane Subject: RE: [PRR] Track Assignments Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:38:42 -0700 Just a clarification. The first line has two "EB P" notations tracks 1 and 4. Which one is "WB F"? Thomas M. Kane Consulting Systems Engineer Hitachi Data Systems Phone: 703-481-4273 FAX: 703-471-8348 Pager 800-PAGE-MCI PIN 1680533 Email: Tom.Kane@hds.com -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton [mailto:jerry@pennsyrr.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 3:26 PM To: PRR-Talk LIST Subject: [PRR] Track Assignments We really need to locate a 1950's era Mountain Division ETT to find out about track assignments around the Curve. In reviewing a 1955 Middle Division ETT, I'm finding some things I didn't expect. We knew the Philadelphia Div. fed the Middle Div. as follows: 1 2 3 4 EB P WB P EB F EB P We thought VIEW realigned as follows: 1 2 3 4 EB F EB P WB P WB F But the ETT indicates that from VIEW to TUNNEL its: 1 2 3 4 EB P EB F WB F WB P This answers my other unspoken question: Where did passenger trains realign for Lewistown. Later, from ALTO thru SLOPE 1 2 3 4 EB F WB F EB P WB P There is no note from SLOPE to Mountain Division Point, but it appears that passenger trains were on the outer two tracks of the Curve. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDGbuff@webtv.net (FrancisinSunbury) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Reading "Speed" The October 1999 ORER lists approximately 20 hoppers still lettered Reading in the two 4XXXX series of cars. Can any body spot these and get size of "speed lettering". Most people say it is 21" high on the 90 & 100 ton cars. Herald King decals have 21" size. 24" for the offset hoppers. The RDG Society's older hopper release seemed to have 24' lettering. The RDG Society Of Model Engineers drawings seem to lean toward 24". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:32:05 -0500 (CDT) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: Re: [PRR] Reading "Speed" I have a slide of Reading hopper 483741 taken at Rochester, PA, on the Ft. Wayne line in 1997. If needed, I can probably scale the letters and come up with a size. Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:42:01 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Greetings to Jerry, Tom, Rich et al: >From 4/26/1959 Pittsburgh Div ett No. 7, Rule 1151-B1, Page 97: Keeping in mind that tracks are numbered 1-4 from south to north: Banks (Marysville)-View (Duncannon) 1 ep, 2 wp, 3 ef, 4 wf This was so that passenger trains would be optimally aligned to reach Rockville Bridge en route to/from Harrisburg passenger station, and so that freight trains would be optimally aligned to enter/depart Enola Yard. >From View to Altoona, passenger trains were assigned to the outer tracks -- where there were 4 tracks, they were assigned to 1 and 4; where there were 3 tracks, they were assigned to 1 and 3. Remember that this was during the interim period when PRR was slimming down the former Middle Division from four tracks to three, and to two through the Spruce Creek tunnels. [Note that the main line had never been wider than three tracks between Spruce Creek and Forge account topographic restrictions]. The outer-track assignment enabled passenger trains to perform station work (passengers, baggage) at Lewistown, Mount Union, Huntingdon, Tyrone, and mail work (mostly caught/delivered on the fly at a mail crane) at Newport, Port Royal, Mifflin, Lewistown, Mapleton, Mill Creek, Huntingdon, and Petersburg. View-Port (Newport) 1 ep, 2 ef, 3 wf, 4 wp Port-Mifflin 1 ep, 2 ef, 3 wp [assumption is that wf used 2 or 3] Mifflin-Jacks (Mount Union) 1 ep, 2 ef, 3 wf, 4 wp Jacks-Hunt 1 ep, 2 ef, 3 wp [again, assumption is that wf used 2 or 3] Hunt-Tunnel 1 ep, 2 ef, 3 wf, 4 wp Tunnel-Spruce (Spruce Creek) 1 eastward, 2 westward [through the double tunnels] Spruce-Forge 1 ep, 2 wf, 3 wp [assumption is that ef used 1 or 2] Forge-Wilson (Tyrone) 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wp, 4 wf [presumably to position passenger trains to stop at the center-island platform at Tyrone] Wilson-Gray 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wp, 4 wf, 5 ef&p Gray-Antis (near East Altoona) 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wp, 4 wf Antis-Alto 3 ep, 4 wp [presumably 1 and 2 are omitted from the tt because they enter the yard at this point; 3 and 4 are the passenger tracks that run next to the shops, on the north side of the main line; see next item below.] Alto-Slope "A" track ef, 1 ef, 2 wf, 3 ep, 4 wp [This was so that passenger trains could reach the Altoona station and trainshed, located on the north side of the main line] Slope-MO 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wf, 4 wp [the assignment of #2 track to passenger service probably relates to the interior assignment of passenger tracks between Johnstown and MO (Cresson); see below. It would have been easier to routinely cross eastbound passenger trains from 2 to 3 at Alto -- and thus to reach the passenger station -- than to always be crossing them from 1 to 3.] MO (Cresson)-SG (SG was just west of Johnstown passenger station) 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wp, 4 wf The interior (2&3 track) assignment of passenger trains was so that trains could reach the island platforms at Cresson (only one train still stopped at Cresson in 1959) and Johnstown. There was no mail crane work between Altoona and Johnstown so there was no need for any passenger train to be on an outer track. Presumably with no other passenger stops between Altoona and Johnstown and the presence of numerous coal branches that fed traffic to and took empties from the main line, PRR deemed it expedient to assign passenger trains the inside tracks on this stretch. This assignment lasted well into Penn Central days. SG-JD (JD is now Conpit/Conpitt Junction) 1 ef, 2 ep, 3 wp, [4 track removed], 5 wf, 6 wf. Tracks 5 and 6 were the Sang Hollow Extension, which ran on the north side of the Conemaugh River. Again, if we consider the main line, even separated, as being 1-3, 5-6, the passenger trains are on the inside (2&3) to facilitate servicing the center-island platform at Johnstown. Hope this helps. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com John 3:16 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] corridor-room orientation (was Altoona Area Didn't the Named passenger trains pass around the curve at night? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 30 Aug 00 18:46:58 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: [PRR] Routing of trains over the Pittsburgh division Reply to: Routing of trains over the Pittsburgh division >>On 8/29/00 12:25 AM, David (Fresh) Freshwater at (dfresh20@erols.com) wrote: >> Look at pages 70-71 in Triumph I. Diagram on the bottom of 70, from July 1, >> 1945, shows trains using the crossover at GY to swap passenger trains from >> outside at Slope to inside at the top of the hill. Diagram at the top of 71, >> for 1958, is harder to read. GY is gone. But, down on the right side below >> the track, it says from MO to Slope #1 is East Freight, #2 is East Passenger, #3 >> is West Freigh and #4 is West Passenger. So it looks like when GY went out of >> service, they used the Slope interlocking. >> >Thanks, but not that this is still not "traditional". Traditional would have >#3 be WB passenger, not freight and #4 WB freight, not passenger. Jerry, the more you look into it, I think the more you'll find that the PRR really varied 'traditional' track assignments on the Pittsburgh division, depending on circumstances. One of which is ease of routing trains -- and reducing conflicts -- through congested interlockings, such as ALTO. Makes sense just to run a westbound limited straight through the interlocking on 4, vs. crossing over to 3 and potentially stabbing a freight running for the hill. The view around Horse Shoe wasn't much of an issue, as most of the Blue Ribbon Fleet ran over the curve at night. Most of the steam shots I've seen of the Curve have the double- and triple-headed passenger trains running on 4. Track 3 was also reverse-signalled on this stretch of trackage. I'm not sure why this was, whether to expedite helpers moving back downgrade around slow moving trains braking down the curve, or to keep trains as far away from the 'edge' as possible during periods of light westbound traffic. I don't have Triumph 1, is any reference to this made in that book? In studying aerial shots of the curve, it appears that eastbound trains -- freight and passenger -- were routed on track 2, when possible. It shows much more use (is a lot darker from braking and journal oil) than track 1. This routing most trains on 2 down the mountain eliminated the possibility of a train tumbling down the hillside, in the event of a derailment. I'm not sure if this routing was a consequence of the Red Arrow wreck on Bennington curve, or not. Makes sense, though. The PRR interlocking charts usually had 'assigned routing of traffic' designations, and the 1944 chart of MG has track assignments that are identical to those stated by Dave Freshwater, above. Trains went back to the traditional "passengers on the middle mains" west of MO, and pretty much stayed that way to RG tower at Radebaugh. The exception was the stretch of track between Conpit and SG, where the "main" was reduced to three tracks due to the double track Sang Hollow Extension on the north side of the river. #1 was EB frt; 2 EB pass.; #3 WB pass; and 5 and 6 on the north bank were WB freight, track 4 having been retired as superfluous by the mid 50s. Radebaugh was where things got interesting again due to the tunnels and the reduction of the main to three tracks through them (before the tunnel was daylighted, of course). The southernmost track was for all trains east, the middle track for WB passengers, and the northernmost for WB freight. From RG to CP tower at Larimer, passenger trains were normally assigned the OUTSIDE mains 1 and 4, and the freights the inside ones. Remember, this was getting into Pittsburgh commuter territory, west of Derry. My supposition is this routing was to make things easier for passenger (commuter?) trains to get onto the Southwest secondary via the Radebaugh branch. I can't see any other reason for doing it. However, I don't remember that secondary being a great source of passenger traffic but maybe it was. At CP, the assigned routings were switched once again for the approaches to Pitcairn yard, where #1 was WB pass.; #2 EB pass.; #3 WB freight; and #4 EB freight. This was to route the passenger mains out of the way of freights waiting to enter, or exiting Pitcairn yard. These assignments retained until R tower at East Pittsburgh, where the passenger trains again were routed to the 1 and 4 tracks, and freights to the two inside tracks. I assume this was to position freights to access Wilkensburg yard, and to keep commuter trains on the outside mains for ease of access to the smaller commuter stations along the line. In the case of the stretch from CP to SW tower in Greensburg, the changes of track assignment in a relatively short distance, the reduction of the number of tracks due to the tunnel, plus the presence of the junctions to the Southwest Secondary, things could be made interesting on a model railroad depicting this stretch of four-track main. -- Doug Drew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Routing of trains over the Pittsburgh division On 30 Aug 2000, Doug Drew wrote: > Radebaugh was where things got interesting again due to the tunnels and > the reduction of the main to three tracks through them (before the > tunnel was daylighted, of course). The southernmost track was for all Only the tunnel on the newer, straight alignment was daylighted. The other tunnel, on the original alignment, is presumably still there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:58:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Routing of trains over the Pittsburgh division On 30 Aug 2000, Doug Drew wrote: > In the case of the stretch from CP to SW tower in Greensburg, the > changes of track assignment in a relatively short distance, the > reduction of the number of tracks due to the tunnel, plus the presence > of the junctions to the Southwest Secondary, things could be made > interesting on a model railroad depicting this stretch of four-track > main. Depending on the year you model, you also get the ought track at Irwin on the original alignment, and a junction to the branch whose name now fails me that ran down to (just west of) Herminie, and after 1941 terminated just south of Irwin at Cereal Hill, just before a tunnel. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] 1934 PRR Class X26 (USRA SS) Boxcar Rebuilds Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:04:15 -0700 In 1934, PRR rebuilt many Class X26 USRA SS Boxcars, replacing the original roof and doors with a Murphy roof and Youngstown doors. Does anyone have a lead on roof pictures of the rebuilt cars? Thanks. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: [PRR] 1934 PRR Class X26 Boxcar Rebuilds Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:24:00 -0700 Regarding my previous post, this is not concerning the late 40s rebuilds of Class X26 USRA boxcar into Class X26c all-steel boxcars. This question concerns changes made during the 1934 rebuilding, which were limited to Murphy roofs and Youngstown doors, with some cars receiving AB brakes. However, those of you who sent information on the X26c rebuilds, I do have a Sunshine X26c conversion kit to finish, so the info is still much appreciated. Apologies for the confusion. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:29:04 -0700 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Hi All, >From PRR Track Chart No. 9756 (correct to Dec. 31, 1953) Central Region Pittsburgh Division Main Line Pittsburgh to Altoona Track assignments: Slope to MO- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. MO to SG- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Frt. SG to JD- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. (No Track 4 ?) Track 5 Wwd. Frt. Track 6 Wwd. Frt. JD to RG- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Frt. RG to CP- Track 1 Ewd. Psgr. Track 2 Ewd. Frt. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. CP to SZ- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. SZ to WG- Track 1 Ewd. Siding. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Track. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. WG to R- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. R to DV- Track 1 Ewd. Psgr. Track 2 Ewd. Frt. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. DV to BU- Track 1 Ewd. Track. Track 2 Wwd. Track. Track 3 Ewd. Siding. Track 4 Wwd. Siding. >From PRR ETT No. 12 Central Region Western Pennsylvania Division Pittsburgh Division Effective April 24, 1949 Track Assignments: Slope to MO- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. AR to MO- Track 0 Ewd. Frt. MO to SG- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Frt. SG to JD- Track 5 Wwd. Frt. Track 6 Wwd. Frt. SG to SQ- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. SQ to JD- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. JD to RG- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Ewd. Psgr. Track 3 Wwd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Frt. RG to CP- Track 1 Ewd. Psgr. Track 2 Ewd. Frt. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. CP to SZ- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. SZ to WG- Track 3 Ewd. Track. Track 4 Wwd. Track. Employee written changes to SZ to WG- Date unknown (possibly before 9/1/49 as that is the latest "paste-in" in my copy) Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Track. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. WG to Perry- Track 0 Ewd. Frt. Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. Perry to R- Track 1 Ewd. Frt. Track 2 Wwd. Frt. Track 3 Ewd. Psgr. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. R to DV- Track 1 Ewd. Psgr. Track 2 Ewd. Frt. Track 3 Wwd. Frt. Track 4 Wwd. Psgr. DV to BU- Track 1 Ewd. Track. Track 2 Wwd. Track. Hope this will help some. The Interlocking Diagrams at Mark Bej's site have track assignments on them though I don't recall the dates of his charts. Will try to correlate the info from them and post them soon if they are close to the era under discussion. Later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 31 Aug 00 10:11:37 -0400 From: Doug Drew Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Reply to: Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Dan Cupper wrote: "The interior (2&3 track) assignment of passenger trains was so that trains could reach the island platforms at Cresson (only one train still stopped at Cresson in 1959) and Johnstown. There was no mail crane work between Altoona and Johnstown so there was no need for any passenger train to be on an outer track. Presumably with no other passenger stops between Altoona and Johnstown and the presence of numerous coal branches that fed traffic to and took empties from the main line, PRR deemed it expedient to assign passenger trains the inside tracks on this stretch. This assignment lasted well into Penn Central days." Dan, et al: My recollection of an overhead shot of the Cresson passenger station area (post-removal of the platforms, but before the track was realigned) is that there were two platforms, one between 1 and 2, and one between 3 and 4. If that was the case, a passenger train routed on ANY of the mains could have reached a platform, couldn't it? Johnstown was a different story, with just the single platform between 2 and 3, as I remember it. However, there would have been ample opportunity to reroute passenger trains between MO and the Johnstown station. Seems odd that Cresson would have had a better platform setup than Johnstown, but the physical situation in the Johnstown area may have had something to do with it. The need to work mail cranes is an interest facet of passenger operations affecting track assignments I hadn't considered. Were mail cranes ever used when the assigned routing of trains were on the INSIDE mains, and if they were, how was this accomplished? Did the outside mains "bow out" to clear the cranes? Were they set up to deliver to either main (in the middle, between 2 and 3) or were there two between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 -- or none of the above? Where would one ascertain where mail cranes were located in a given era? Is this information in the PRR ETT? I know now that RPO's had their own "ETT's" for various routes. I've seen them for sale on ebay. -- Doug Drew ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Al Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Red Caboose Work Equipment Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:07:16 -0400 Just a few comments on the latest PRR work equipment offerings from Red Caboose. class X29 - When the color was changed from gray to yellow ca. 1953 the original specs called for the entire car to be yellow including roof. However, the spec was quickly changed and the roof was to be painted black. I don't know how many cars 'snuck' out of the shops w/ yellow roof color, I don't recall ever seeing any, but that really doesn't mean anything. Most cars had the black roof color. Also most all of the later gray cars had a black roof color. The black roof 'paint' was actually an asphaltum compound to aid in waterproofing the car. I would recommend painting both the gray and yellow cars to show a black roof, unless of course you are modeling a specific car and have a photo to go by. Also none of the Red Caboose class X29 cars have the reinforced bottom panels molded on as most all of the later cars of that class had. There has also been previous discussions as to whether the cars dedicated to battery service were white, gray or yellow - unfortunately I don't know the answer, have not seen the specs and never saw the cars in person. From photo of the battery car in Wayne's "The Cars of the Pennsylvania Railroad" (page 64) it would appear that the roof is the same color as the body, and given the 8-60 date on the car one would have to believe the paint color was not gray - this then leaves yellow and white. Note the safety appliances (ladders and grabs) are also the body color, not the contrasting black. Perhaps this shop picture was taken prior to the painting being completed??? I haven't seen a color photo of their version of the 'S' car yet, it was entirely freight car red and the 'S' markings were yellow. Class X29 cars were used in 'S' car service so hopefully they have got it correct. Flat car - The flat car they are offering I guess is supposed to be a class FM, unfortunately it is about 2'-3" +/- too long. This incorrect length also makes the stake pockets spacing, etc. incorrect. The only accurate FM I know of is Sunshine's and perhaps some brass??? Red Caboose also offered the same flat car earlier in freight car red. If you are not a purist I guess it would be acceptable as a stand-in???? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:52:38 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Joe Zappa I would love to know myself. He has never paid me for the Fish Cars I decaled for him almost two years ago, and all email goes unanswered! regards, Andy Miller =============================== bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > Hello all... > > I need some help. Does anyone on the list have a > current phone number for Joe Zappa ? This would > be for the last month or so. I had talked to > his (ex ?) wife about three monthes ago concerning > what was going on and i would like to > contact him (or her) if i can. I have the (724) > 962-2823 number,but its not working now. > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:53:38 EDT Subject: [PRR] Motor assignments Were the motors assigned to specific trains (both passenger and freight) or were they interchanged with a first in first out type choice? Pictures seem to indicate they got around the system fairly regularly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:08:04 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70far trucks Steve, Have you noticed that all the bearing holes are not in the same plane? One sideframe in every set of four has the holes not parallel to the track! I know of no fix fro this, so each set of trucks provides only 1 and a half trucks! regards, Andy Miller ======================================= Steve Hoxie wrote: > > Andy--Haven't seen any response to your question, so let me tell you what I > have done to make the ECW trucks work. First cut off the truck mounted > coupler pad. Kadee 36" wheel sets will work, NWSL will not. Trim the > bolsters where there is contact with the wheels. Glue the bolster and > sideframes together with the wheels in place, then place on a piece of track > to keep everything square. Gently hold it in place until the glue starts > to stiffen the assembly. After it has dried at least overnight, there may > be some places you can reinforce with styrene scraps. If done carefully the > reinforcements will not be visible outside the sideframes. I have a half > dozen P70's as well as two brass Alco R50b's riding on these trucks with no > problems once I worked out the assembly. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:11:32 +0000 From: Roger Hensley Subject: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society For those who may be interested, a Penn Central Railroad Historical Society (PCRRHS) has been established to preserve the history, stories and artifacts of the short lived Penn Central Railroad. The first issue of its publication, the PCRRHS Post has just been mailed out. There is a print, complete and mail membership application at: http://lib2.clark.cc.oh.us/pc/PCRRHSapp.html More information may be had on the Penn Central Mailing List. List information may be found at http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/pc/pc.html Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RBurg74133@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:45:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] Corridor Room Orientation PRR vs NYC Although this may only muddy the waters somewhat. I will quote a brief passage from Pennsy Streamliners The Blue Ribbon Fleet, page 21 left column 3rd paragraph "Bickering developed over which side of the observation car should have the room accommodations. NYC wanted them on the left to face the Hudson River westbound. Pennsy wanted the standard practice, with rooms on the right, to reduce the noise of passing trains. Both railroads got their way." This was only applied to observations but who knows about other all room cars? Ray Burghart a SPF for over 50 years Ex employee Member PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter Camden & Amboy Chapter National NRHS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:17:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Joe Zappa In a message dated 8/31/2000 10:56:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: > I would love to know myself. He has never paid me for the Fish Cars I > decaled for him almost two years ago, How many others read that sentence first time through as "descaled"??? Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:00:43 -0400 Roger: Having worked for the Penn Central for its entire existence, I find it interesting that there would be a Penn Central RAILROAD Historical Society, when there was never a Penn Central Railroad, only a Pennsylvania New York Central Transportation Co., a Penn Central Co., and finally a Penn Central Transportation Co! Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Hensley" To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 6:11 AM Subject: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society > For those who may be interested, a Penn Central Railroad > Historical Society (PCRRHS) has been established to > preserve the history, stories and artifacts of the short > lived Penn Central Railroad. The first issue of its > publication, the PCRRHS Post has just been mailed out. > > There is a print, complete and mail membership application > at: http://lib2.clark.cc.oh.us/pc/PCRRHSapp.html > > More information may be had on the Penn Central Mailing > List. List information may be found at > http://prozac.cwru.edu/jer/pc/pc.html > > Roger > > Roger Hensley > rhensley@anderson.cioe.com > > == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == > == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == > Roger > > Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com > > == NMRA track gauge. "Don't do trains without it." == > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:26:28 +0000 From: Roger Hensley Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > To: , > Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:00:43 -0400 > Roger: > > Having worked for the Penn Central for its entire existence, I find it > interesting that there would be a Penn Central RAILROAD Historical Society, > when there was never a Penn Central Railroad, only a Pennsylvania New York > Central Transportation Co., a Penn Central Co., and finally a Penn Central > Transportation Co! > > Gregg Mahlkov > http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov Good point. But maybe by thinking of PC as a railroad, the society may be able to avoid some of the bitterness and in-fighting that marred the PC existance. Look at the names you listed. None of them could have been mistaken for a railroad company. Around here (central Indiana) the PC was born and went to its death with the NYC and Pennsy people still thinking of themselves as that rather than PC. :-) I joined and am only a member not an officer or trustee. I just feel that anyone interested in the PC may want to know about the society and join. Thus my post here and to an NYC list. Roger Roger Hensley rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:31:38 -0400 Roger: You are certainly right about the rivalry between the "red" and "green" teams! Perhaps part of the problem was that the PC never acknowledged it was a railroad ( see CSXT ). The interesting part was that some of the employees least willing to integrate forces were the youngest and brightest! Gregg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Hensley" To: ; "Gregg Mahlkov" Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society > > From: "Gregg Mahlkov" > > To: , > > Subject: Re: [PRR] Penn Central Historical Society > > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:00:43 -0400 > > > Roger: > > > > Having worked for the Penn Central for its entire existence, I find it > > interesting that there would be a Penn Central RAILROAD Historical Society, > > when there was never a Penn Central Railroad, only a Pennsylvania New York > > Central Transportation Co., a Penn Central Co., and finally a Penn Central > > Transportation Co! > > > > Gregg Mahlkov > > http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov > > Good point. But maybe by thinking of PC as a railroad, the society > may be able to avoid some of the bitterness and in-fighting that > marred the PC existance. Look at the names you listed. None > of them could have been mistaken for a railroad company. Around > here (central Indiana) the PC was born and went to its death with > the NYC and Pennsy people still thinking of themselves as that > rather than PC. :-) > > I joined and am only a member not an officer or trustee. I just feel > that anyone interested in the PC may want to know about the society > and join. Thus my post here and to an NYC list. > > > Roger > > Roger Hensley > rhensley@anderson.cioe.com > > == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ == > == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) == > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70far trucks Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:29:35 -0500 Andy--Sorry, I did not see that discrepancy in any of the trucks I built. Maybe ECW had to redo one of their molds since I bought mine. Steve ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:17:47 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Track Assignments Greetings to Doug and the list: Doug Drew wrote: > My recollection of an overhead shot of the Cresson passenger station area (post-removal of the platforms, but before the track was realigned) is that there were two platforms, one between 1 and 2, and one between 3 and 4. If that was the case, a passenger train routed on ANY of the mains could have reached a platform, couldn't it? True enough, but in the context of no other stations on that stretch of railroad needing passenger-boarding access on 1 and 4, an all-passenger routing on 2 and 3 made sense, particularly since the same held true at Johnstown. > Johnstown was a different story, with just the single platform between 2 and 3, as I remember it. No, the passenger station at Johnstown had two high-level platforms that--similarly to Cresson--were placed between 1 and 2, and between 3 and 4. Again, trains on any track could reach the platform, but with freights arriving/leaving the outer tracks at the Sang Hollow Extension, Conemaugh yard, South Fork, various coal branches, etc., it made for a much cleaner operation to confine the passenger trains to the inside tracks. > Were mail cranes ever used when the assigned routing of trains were on the INSIDE mains, and if they were, how was this accomplished? Did the outside mains "bow out" to clear the cranes? Were they set up to deliver to either main (in the middle, between 2 and 3) or were there two between 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 -- or none of the above? Where would one ascertain where mail cranes were located in a given era? Is this information in the PRR ETT? I know now that RPO's had their own "ETT's" for various routes. I've seen them for sale on ebay. Doug, I can't answer most of these questions but I don't believe the PRR routinely changed its main line r-o-w specifications to accommodate a mail crane between tracks. From a reading of the etts, I suspect that the PRR attacked the problem in a different way from what you're thinking. The mail cranes were normally outside the the outer tracks because of clearance issues and because of the need for a clerk to gain access to them, which--in context of the heavy traffic of those days and especially on the Pittsburgh Division--would have been complicated if a crane were located between mains. The etts show which trains worked which cranes, and even in the 1930s, most towns with cranes did not have more than four trains a day each way catching and delivering mail. My supposition is that those few trains (and remember that in the '30s and '40s we're talking about probably 20 to 30 passenger trains each way) that did the mail-crane work were dispatched on the outside tracks; hence, if scheduled to stop at Cresson and Johnstown, they could do so on those outside platform edges, while still catching and delivering mail at the small-town cranes that were located outside 1 and 4 tracks. I believe that a primary reason the etts showed which trains worked which cranes was so that tower operators had a reference by which to route those certain passenger trains to an outside track. Now, at Cresson it's possible that cranes were located on the center-island platform but I don't know. It's important to remember that these cranes were located at the smaller stations only. At places like Altoona, Huntingdon, Lewistown, and Johnstown, so many trains were scheduled to stop there that any U.S. Mail work needed was accomplished during the station stops. Hope this helps. Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com Acts 4:12 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gregg Mahlkov" Subject: Re: [PRR] Motor assignments Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:20:17 -0400 Locomotives on the PRR were assigned to trains by the Power Director's Office in Philadelphia, with the exception of locals within a region. While certain units (i.e a tuscan GG-1 to the "Broadway" or a silver one to a Florida train) were assigned when possible, trains moved on time with whatever was available. In the case of freight, the number of units assigned to a particular train varied with the tonnage. Those of us in sales felt that too few units were assigned to "hot" freights, resulting in late arrivals. At times, westbound trains were overpowered to balance power, as the predominant tonnage was eastbound from both Chicago and St. Louis. Gregg Mahlkov http://www.gtcom.net/~mahlkov ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:53 AM Subject: [PRR] Motor assignments > Were the motors assigned to specific trains (both passenger and freight) or > were they interchanged with a first in first out type choice? Pictures seem > to indicate they got around the system fairly regularly. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Clay" Subject: [PRR] Locomotive assignments/MP 229 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:35:13 -0400 I have been reviewing a copy of the M.P. 229 Assignment of Locomotives dated 8/1/50 in an effort to determine which locomotives might have run over the Cumberland Valley branch in the late 40's and early 50's. According to the 1949 ETT the Cumberland Valley branch was part of the Philadelphia Division. Is it reasonable to assume that most engines, which ran on the CV branch, would have been listed in the MP 229 under the Philadelphia Division even though many of the trains which ran on the CV Branch originated and terminated in Enola? The MP 229 also lists which locomotive is assigned to a particular road foreman using an ARF number (assignment of Road Foreman). Can this ARF number be used to further pinpoint an engines location i.e. was road foreman 015 located at a particular location such as Harrisburg? Thanks Jim Clay Mechanicsburg, PA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!