From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:09:48 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Excellent Shark article!!! Kris, list, Fantastic job on the BF15! The engine looks gorgeous, and your detailing was (to an admitted steam modeller) exhaustive. By any chance, do you (or any listmembers) know if any Baldwin Sharks ever graced the Camden and Amboy or New York and Long Branch? I remember seeing shots of the engines in New Jersey, but always under catenary; so far I've only seen shots of the BP20 engines on the C&A and NYLB. The freight sharks were probably best off where there were hills and tonnage, which probably explains why I haven't seen shots of them in East Jersey. Thanks again for a motivating article! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:27:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. From: Fred G Rea Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. In "the good old days" I used to buy them and pop out the coils on Central Valley trucks on my cabins. What does one do now ? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:30:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the = BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the = older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same = but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had = poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom = corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate = fuel tank. =20 The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article is the rear diaphram. = Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used = the diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for = EMD F7s, etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the = convention look for them because I expect to display them side by side. = You'll see the tremendous difference. =20 Please offer constructive criticism. I know of two other items which I = missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above = the front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the = cab doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew = all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! Fire away. Regards, Kris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rholden=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks = to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to = build my=20 models of the BF-15 and BF-16.  The subject in the article used = what I=20 think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions = are the=20 same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different.  The older = version had=20 poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom=20 corners.  When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more = accurate fuel=20 tank. 
 
The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article = is the=20 rear diaphram.  Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they = might look=20 like and used the diaphragm kit from American Limited.  Its = supposed to be=20 used for EMD F7s, etc.  This is not prototypical.  If any of = you get=20 to go to the convention look for them because I expect to display them = side by=20 side.  You'll see the tremendous difference. 
 
Please offer constructive criticism.  I = know of two=20 other items which I missed.  There should be another sand hatch = half way up=20 the nose above the front truck and the side rear door should be = recessed, much=20 like the cab doors.  I could kick myself for not including this = because I=20 knew all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just=20 forgot!
 
Fire away.
 
Regards,
 
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rholden=20
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 = PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Sharks!

Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the=20 E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so = much=20 better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I = guess you=20 could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am = upgrading=20 my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version.=20 Thanks for you comments! Bob = Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:41:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Kris' PRR Sharks! Hey Yuze Gize, I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent work! Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, yes, it always has for me. Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. <> So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... <> Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other are on us. As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... <> Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:49:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:35:04 -0700 Martin Lofton of Sunshine Models sold a nice leaf spring to be used on the F30a flat car trucks that was made in resin and could be used on just about anything. Might be too narrow for your use, as it was meant to fit in between the widely-spaced coil spring packages on the sideframe. Nice kit, by the way! -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:49 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 15:28:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Update From: Jerry Britton I got an update from Ivan Frantz over the weekend and from that information updated the convention agenda residing on the Cyber Division's web site: http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com There are five layout tours available. Three are in homes; two are clubs. PLAN WELL as not all are open at all times! Maps will be available at the convention. Friday night there are two home layouts open from 7-9. Their proximity barely allows visiting both. One is in Shermans Dale and one in Mechanicsburg. On Sunday, the Shermans Dale home layout will be open from noon until 3. Take note that Ivan did not know this and it may not be shown as open on the information haded out at the convention! This layout will indeed be open again! The club layout in Mechanicsburg will also be open. Heading down I-83 towards York, there will be a home layout open in Emigsville and a club in York. ALSO, as reported months ago on the Cyber Division site but only now realized by The Society, the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS will have HARRIS Tower open on Sunday from noon until 3 p.m. If you've never been there, I highly recommend it. Though they probably won't kick you out, I can tell you that the big arrival will be the eastbound Three Rivers. I don't know when it is "due" in, but this past Sunday it arrived at around 3:15. It had 26 cars, of which only 5 were passenger!!! They cut off 5 roadrailers after about a 20 minute layover. Then the switcher went to work. Most action is Harrisburg/east, so there's not a lot passing in front of the tower, but my son and I did see 7 trains in about an hour! Not sure what the traffic is like earlier in the afternoon. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 16:43:42 -0400 I have just talked to Dave at Miracle Castings. They are reorganizing but they expect to be in business for a while! Rumors of their demise appear to be premature. They are shipping additional BP20 A units to us today. He also says that the Baby Trainmaster should be finished in a few weeks. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Modelers, I am in the midst of modeling another K4. This time it is a PFM modernized K4. I am modeling it to represent how it would have appeared in the mid 1950's. This one will retain its chicken coop pilot but have the modernized headlight/generator positions. I noticed on certain photos that the Pennsy started using a small auxilary light mounted above the Keystone Number Plate. (purpose?) I want to add this feature to this K4 also. I want to use an MV lens to represent the light but what would be the best part to represent the light housing itself. Anyone have experience on this part?...TIA, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] We're not dead yet! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:27:21 -0400 Hi Everyone! Sorry I haven't responded to the posts on the list sooner, but I've been one busy camper. Just so everyone has the story straight, here's what's been happening at Miracle Castings Inc., and what will happen: 1) Miracle Castings has undergone an internal reorganization, which has seen the following changes take place: Mike White has stepped down as CEO, and is being replaced by me (Pat Lawless). Scott Heiden remains as President. Mike has taken over the Vice President's position, but won't be involved on a day-to-day basis with the operation of the company, due to other committments. While the negotiations around these business changes were taking place, not much activity was going on within the company, due to the uncertainty of the outcome. However, as of last Wednesday, the necessary papers were signed, and everyone here is happy with the outcome. 2) The web site problems actually were due to the service provider temporarily shutting down. They shed their dial-up service, reorganized, and re-opened offering only web hosting services. Our site is now back up and running, but there are still a few glitches. Let me know if you find any. Needless to say we weren't happy with the complete lack of notice, and coming when it did, this certainly was enough to generate a few rumours. 3) The company is definitely going ahead with the H-15-44, as well as with lots of future projects. As owners, Scott and I will be handling the day-to-day operations of the company, and we are committed to seeing this through. Miracle Castings is here for the long haul. The response to the products we have already offered has proven to us that there is a market for what we have to offer, and we aren't going to let the opportunity go by. 4) To help grow the company faster, and improve communications and service with our customers, I have added a Sales Manager to our organization. His name is Dave Henwood, and he can be reached at sales@mc.cyklone.com , or on his cell phone at (519) 754-6945. Dave is an accomplished modeler with an excellent background in sales, plus a thorough knowledge of the model railroading industry. We're glad to have him associated with our company, and you will find him to be very helpful if you have questions. 5) I'm swamped! There's a lot of catch-up work to do, but I'm making progress, and getting lots of help from the other people who are associated with Miracle Castings. Just for the record, here's some of the people who have been involved with Miracle Castings in the past, and who are looking forward to being involved in the future: Al and Debbie Stefanovic: Casting contractors John Lucek: Kit assembly and physical plant Barry McClelland: Model maker, mold maker, and caster. Judy Heiden: Administration All of these folks have advised me that they are behind us 100%, and that they are looking forward to being very busy in the future. In short, it's going to take a very large stick to kill this company, so don't worry about us. Now that things are cooking again, we're going to be pushing hard to complete existing projects (such as the H-15-44 and the Gas Launch), and planning for future products as well. So stand by, and we'll have some new stuff for you to buy shortly! I'll keep Jerry notified of availability just as soon as I have some firm numbers. Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:47:33 -0700 Dennis, Jerry and just about everybody else, The following was sent to me by one of the members of my Model RR club. For those of you who are not familiar with The Original Whistle Stop Hobbies, it is probably the largest and best hobby shop in the Los Angeles area. I am passing it on because I believe that these guys are on the right track. Bill Daniels > >From: The Original Whistle Stop > >Reply-To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >Subject: Much Ado Over Kalmbach and eHobbies > >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:37:33 > > > >Here's some news about something that's happening in our industry. We think > >you should know about it. > > > >One of the first things Whistle Stop customers see when they walk in our > >door is a wall of model and prototype railroad magazines. Prominent among > >that selection are titles from Kalmbach Publishing Co. You know most of > >them: "Model Railroader", "Trains", "Garden Railways", "Classic Toy > >Trains", "Finescale Modeler." > > > >These magazines are not on our shelves any more. > > > >Well, since you asked...We've suspended all Kalmbach products in response > >to the April 4th announcement that Kalmbach and eHobbies, a newly > >established Web-only retailer of hobby supplies, have joined forces. The > >announced purpose of their joint effort is to ..."enable eHobbies to > >provide the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" > > > >That sounds pretty good, at least on the surface. We're hobbyists, too. We > >like what the Internet has done and could do to enhance our hobby > >experience. (We, as retailers, like the opportunity the Internet gives us > >to reach you). We like Kalmbach magazines and How-To books. Sounds like a > >Win-Win deal for everyone. > > > >However, as a competing advertiser in Kalmbach publications we feel this > >announced partnership equates to Kalmbach's endorsement of eHobbies over > >all of its other retail advertisers, including Whistle Stop. > > > >We, and a bunch of other hobby retailers, don't feel we should help > >Kalmbach single out and build up one of our competitors, no matter how > >benevolent that competitor may seem. > > > >By paying for advertising in Kalmbach magazines, by selling their books, > >magazines and videos, we help Kalmbach make this competitor stronger. We > >have elected not to. We have pulled our ads from their magazines, and we've > >pulled their products off our shelves. > > > >In fact at the National Hobby Retailers Association annual conference last > >week in Las Vegas, roughly 75 other dealers from across the country handed > >Kalmbach a signed notice that they were taking the same action. > > > >We could leave it at that. Some of you probably wish we would! You might be > >saying. "I don't care about the politics of the business. I don't care if > >Whistle Stop and Kalmbach are having a tiff. I just want my magazines!" > > > >And that's fair. We apologise that this issue may result in some customers > >not having easy access to their favorite magazines. In the long run, we > >think you'll benefit. > > > >Who is eHobbies? You've seen their multi-page full-color "Chief in the > >desert" advertisements in every hobby magazine there is. Some of you have > >probably logged on to check it out. If you're an experienced model > >railroader you probably didn't stay long, because there isn't much there > >for you. > > > >If some company wants to spend maga-bucks to advertise their Web site that > >doesn't have anything on it, why should Whistle Stop care? > > > >Look more closely. Why would anyone with the kind of money that's being > >spent on these ads want to spend it for that Web site? And why should you > >care! If you're a serious hobbyist...trains, plains or submarines, you > >should care a lot. > > > >The one conclusion that most hobby retailers (That's us) have reached is > >that eHobbies exists to establish the basis of an IPO. An Eye-Pee-What? An > >Initial Public Offering. A sale of stock in their company to the public. > > > >It doesn't matter how much they spend on promotion, and they've spent a > >ton. It doesn't matter how little they sell (How much have you bought from > >them?) It doesn't matter that eHobbies might never make any money. We (Not > >just Whistle Stop, but a lot of other hobby shops) believe the fundamental > >purpose for eHobbies is to convince speculators that there is so much > >untapped business in the hobby industry (not just model trains) that what > >this company is spending now doesn't matter. > > > >If you've gotten this far, you might write this entire issue off as a bunch > >of established retailers like Whistle Stop trying to maintain the status > >quo; trying to hold on to their piece of the pie. It may sound like a bunch > >of little guys sounding the alarm as the BIG GUYS are invading their > >territory. Kalmbach and eHobbies are definitely the BIG GUYS. > > > >To this we admit partial guilt. This is our business after all. Of course > >we're looking out for our best interests. We feel it is also in your best > >interest as a hobbyist to have a local hobby shop for supplies and > >information now and in the future. > > > >We realize the nature of selling anything -- hobbies included -- has > >changed with the existence of the Internet. Your ability to read this is > >evidence enough. > > > >eHobbies has the resources to potentially attract new customers into hobby > >fields. We don't know how many new hobby customers are out there. But we're > >concerned that, contrary to eHobbies boast, those customers will not > >recieve "the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" until they do go > >to their local hobby store. > > > >The partnership between eHobbies and Kalmbach does not promote local hobby > >shops, so we cannot support it. > > > >So, do we think eHobbies is some evil force that will engulf and devour the > >hobby retailing industry and then go public and move on? No....and yes. > > > >No, their ultimate impact may only be on Wall Street when potential > >investors realize the hobby industry pie is only so big and the wildly > >speculative window of opportunity for Dot.Com-only companies that don't > >actually make a profit has already closed. > > > >In that case, the vast sums spent by eHobbies will somehow have to be > >justified by profits from the products they actually sell. That's going to > >be quite a trick based on our 50 years observing what it costs to sell > >hobbies; especially at a time when margins -- our profit on every item we > >sell -- have been shrinking every year. > > > >On the other hand, we (hobby retailers) do feel eHobbies is acting like one > >of the bad guys. The immediate impact from a company like eHobbies, is they > >will cut into our ability to even carry the products that attract new > >customers. Without new customers we can't grow. If we don't grow, we die. > > > >If items like starter sets and new engines won't sell here, we'll have to > >quit buying them. eHobbies may have beaucoup bucks to spend on promotion > >and no incentive to be conventionally profitable. Whistle Stop has to make > >a profit to keep the doors open. > > > >Don't worry. Whistle Stop plans to be around for quite a while. Though > >eHobbies may take a bite out of our sales, their impact on Whistle Stop > >will hopefully be no greater than any number of other new kids on the block > >over the years. This new Giant-RetailerDot.Com shouldn't affect us any more > >than Giant-Mail-Order Inc. has in the past. > > > >Our level of service and depth of inventory will hopefully prevail over the > >discounts and flash of these other faceless companies. > > > >Think it over. Take some action.Write or E-Mail us. Write to Kalmbach. Let > >us know if you feel our reaction to Kalmbach's partnership with eHobbies is > >appropriate. > > > >Thanks for getting all the way to the end of this! We'll try to keep our > >industry politics to a minimum. > > > >We look forward to serving you. > > > > > >Brian, Fred and the gang. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Re: Kris' PRR Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:49:26 -0400 Greg MArtin wrote, "So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... " I scratch built the disphragm on the second Shark. There is an excellent book from Withers Publishing entitled, "Baldwin Cab and Transfer Units" It has a wealth of information. For example some Sharks have a fuel tank with a center dial gauge (which was plagued by leaks) while others have a sight tube on the lower front corner. Lots of trivia. It contains several good shots of the rear door. Without photos its hard to explain. Here's a tip. The rear door had a safety chain that you snapped across the diaphragm to prevent falls. Make the loops to fasten the chain from scale chain. I used 40 links per inch scale chain. Cut the end off of one link then drill number 80 holes and attach with super glue. Thanks. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:41 AM Subject: Kris' PRR Sharks! > Hey Yuze Gize, > > I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told > me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told > you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say > that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We > chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few > comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent > work! > > Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent > entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our > favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are > not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make > this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps > collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, > yes, it always has for me. > > Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? > If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire > too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... > > << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 > and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version > of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel > tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded > details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I > built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> > > I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would > not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting > kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the > original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. > > < Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used the > diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for EMD F7s, > etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the convention > look for them because I expect to display them side by side. You'll see the > tremendous difference.>> > > So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I > could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two > separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... > > < missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above the > front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the cab > doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew all along I > had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! > > Fire away.>> > > Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We > are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other > are on us. > > As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. > Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You > have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... > > < > Kris >> > > Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:00:06 -0400 Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot long, for their steam engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they use; e.g. number of axles? Thanks. Jim ----------------------------------------------- Elizabeth & Austin Divisions of the PRR (N-Scale) http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen Jim's Railroad Pictures http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:59:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) Folks, This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's about as strong of a position as you can take. I know some guys who buy only from hobby shops, full list prices notwithstanding. Me, heck, I try never to pay full price for anything, least as far as hobby goods and cars and train tickets go. If I can get an Atheran USRA mike for $110, I ain't paying $140. I know the dealer has his costs to cover, but I've got mine , too. I've got young kids and every extra buck I spend is one less for their needs. Life is tough, to be sure. I finally got lucky and a shop opened near me where the prices are discounted and the dealer is actually a very nice person. I can't help it, but most of the full price guys around here act like it bothers them when someone comes in to shop..and I ain't giving these stiffs list price for that kind of service. Oh well, the debate will rage. I took a curious look at eHobbies and felt no urge to break out the credit card. On the other hand, I placed an order with Jerry's Merchandise service once and had it in about four days: most excellant service. A tough trade and I've really come to think service with a smile, at a good price, is the key to survival. Regards, Barry Peltier St.Paul, MN ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Jim, The only evidence I see of the Pennsy using oil tenders were the handful of L1 2-8-2's and of course the leased 2-10-4 from the Santa Fe. I believe these tenders had 8 wheel Buckeye type trucks. Ofcourse this wasn't a Pennsy design....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:36:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) From: Jerry Britton On 5/2/00 10:59 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, > in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no > electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby > shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was > always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in > their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the > issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other > of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's > about as strong of a position as you can take. I haven't verified anything direct myself, but I was notified that there is an ORGANIZED boycott of advertising starting against the Kalmbach publications. I am not an advertiser, so I am not involved. However, it will inevitably weaken magazines such as MR. Heck, I make one pass just reading the ads! Lost ads mean lost income means fewer pages or less quality. In the shadows of the impending Microsoft split -- with apologies to John Cooper! -- it is wrong for a trade magazine to ally itself with the distribution channel. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 04:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? --- Jim Cullen wrote: > > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot > long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they > use; e.g. number of > axles? At the level of detail you're asking about, this won't be much help, but... I was a little kid during WW2 (the big one) and I vaguely recall having seen and having been told about some PRR engines which burned oil. As I recall, they just had an oil tank built into what had been the coal bunker space. This was told to me as an example of how the war was altering "the way things are done". I've puzzled over that from time to time in the decades since. During the war there was a continual fuss about petroleum products, gasoline rationing, admonitions to conserve gasoline, news items on the importance of producing aviation fuel and fuel for tanks rather than civilian motor fuel, and on and on. How then would burning oil in steam locomotives be advantageous? My guess is that in that era, the refiners weren't as clever at cracking heavy petroleum fractions to produce gasoline. Hence, producing bezillions of gallons of avgas left behind large quantities of heavy, tarry stuff good only for burning to raise steam. Altering locomotives to burn that would free up coal which might then be used to make coke to make steel, another hot item at the time. Don't know how well it worked out, don't know if the locomotive(s) I saw were a small sample out of many or all that there were. As I recall, the chief or only distinguishing characteristic was no pile of coal visible in the tender. That's not to say that Phase 2 of the project didn't involve speciallly designed tenders. Wish I had taken notes at the time, but had I had the maturity to do so then, good chance this letter would have to be posthumous. Doubt that there's much chance of finding photos, as photographing railroads was unlawful "for the duration of the war effort". ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:21:15 -0400 From: Robert Wickus Subject: [PRR] Form CT 220 Does anyone on the list know where I can buy, beg, borrow or copy a blank Form CT 220? If anyone can help, please contact me off list Many thanks, Bob Wickus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 05:59:21 -0700 Well, I guess it's time I jumped into this controversy. As I understand it, locomotives assigned to the Baltimore area were set up to burn oil...this includes the previously mentioned L1s class locomotives as well as some B class switchers. I don't know if any other locomotives were also set up to burn oil. Oil had some advantages over coal, in that it had a higher BTU content (you burned less to produce more heat), no cinder cutting of flues and superheater elements, and no ash formation, which meant that there was no ash disposal problem. Steam locomotives that were set up to burn oil had a seperate tank installed in the tender, whether it was originally set up to burn coal or not. This had two advantages. One that if the tank developed a leak, it could be easily removed for repair, and Two, locomotives could be readily converted from coal to oil (or back again if necessary). I read somewhere that the PRR gave early consideration (around the turn of the last century) to converting all locomotive fuel to oil. It was cheaper than coal, and the other money saving considerations were also factors. But further analysis showed that at the time the PRR would use so much oil they would push the price up so that the price advantage would disappear. You don't see that kind of thinking much these days! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:00:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? << --- Jim Cullen wrote: > > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot > long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they > use; e.g. number of > axles? >> Cover of Spring 1995 Keystone shows E6s #13 at Baltimore with 70P66 tender converted to oil in 1946 (photos is from 1951. Quoting loosely from inside cover paragraph, it mentions B6sb #5267 (60S66 tender) and H9s $3690 (70F70a tender) converted in 1936 and dropped by January 1947. Both were used in the Baltimore area as well. It also mentions 10 L1s with 90F80 tenders converted in 1946 for New York, Panhandle, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Susquehanna divisions. In 1952 another L1s with 110P75 tender was converted for Susquehanna Divison. All the L1s were retired by 1953. Five of the L1s supplied heat to Sunnyside in stationary service from 1954 to 1958. Roger Keyser wrote the information. In the short paragraph he did not mention the reason(s) for the conversion. Seems to me there was additional info in the Keystone on the Baltimore engines--was it smoke abatement? Perhaps the 1946 conversions were an experiment to evaluate alternatives to John L. Lewis's miners' union activity at that time, which activity was raising the price of fuel rather sharply, at least according to management in the country at the time. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: [PRR] Coal Docks Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:43:09 -0500 To List: I am interested in modeling one of Pennsy's coal docks. Can anyone help direct me to where I can find drawings, plans, photos, etc. Are there any still standing that I can go and visit? Thanks Jerry Colman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Oil-burners on PRR Bob Zoeller referred to information in the Keystone regarding oil-burning PRR locomotives in the Baltimore area circa 1936-47, and oil-burning L1's on several divisions 1946-1953. He further pointed to troubles in the coal industry in 1946 as a possible motivation for the latter. Bill Daniels defended oil as having several inherent advantages over coal as a locomotive fuel. Bob Netzlof now says: Could be that I got a recollection of events in 1946 folded into events in the closing year of WW2. Certainly there was a major crisis in the coal industry just after the war. As I recall, Truman prevented (or ended) a national miner's strike by nationalizing all coal mines, under authority of some act passed during the war. But, since I had remembered the few instances of oil-burners on the Pittsburgh Division as a WW2 thing, I was commenting on "the advantage" in the context of "since every time you turn around something is being shut down to conserve oil", how is it an advantage to come up with a new consumer of oil? On balance, I suspect my claim of "oil-burners on the PRR during WW2" should be amended to "..just after WW2.." I certainly didn't mean to imply that I think coal is superior to oil as a locomotive fuel, although it too is less than perfect. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:16:11 -0500 From: "J. R. N. Witmer" Subject: [PRR] oil tenders Pennsy Power (1) has a photograph of a tender, arranged for oil firing, as installed behind a B6sb. It was, as mentioned on the list, assigned yo yhr Baltimore area in 1939. Can't tell much about the trucks. I seem to recall that another switcher, assigned to Washington Union Station shifting, burned oil at about the same time. Captain Jack ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] oil tenders Captain Jack, I don't recall you ever posting here on PRR-Talk. Many of us have seen your information exchange articles in the Keystone. If this is your first post, let me be the first to welcome you in. Your knowledge will be much welcomed here.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 19:59:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Gary, I will also be modelling a K4s with an auxiliary light. I have read about them being called "yard lights." I know nothing about their use, only their presence or absence on some K4s engines. I found that Bowser part number 90432 looks like it will do the job for me. It's intended for the old T1 boiler, and it's on page 140 under H. The photo shows it head on; the casting has a long rear section; you'll need to drill a big hole (larger than #50) to mount it. Hope this helps! Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Modelers, > > I am in the midst of modeling another K4. This time it is a PFM > modernized K4. I am modeling it to represent how it would have appeared > in the mid 1950's. This one will retain its chicken coop pilot but have > the modernized headlight/generator positions. I noticed on certain > photos that the Pennsy started using a small auxilary light mounted > above the Keystone Number Plate. (purpose?) I want to add this feature > to this K4 also. I want to use an MV lens to represent the light but > what would be the best part to represent the light housing itself. > Anyone have experience on this part?...TIA, Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:04:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Jim, list, Aside from the B6sb and L1s engines that other members have posted about, there was at least one E6s that was oil fired. The engine was on the cover of the Keystone a few years back. I can't be exact about the date, as my collection is in storage, but perhaps another member can tell us what issue it was. The E6s tender was one of the 70P70 subclasses, and it had dolphin trucks, if I remember correctly. Doug Jim Cullen wrote: > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they use; e.g. number of > axles? > Thanks. Jim > ----------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth & Austin Divisions of the PRR (N-Scale) > http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen > > Jim's Railroad Pictures > http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Doug, Ted, list, Now I know what the aux. light was (for yard use), was this only used on a few locos operating on the South Amboy, Long Branch area in the mid-late 50's? For those who have the book called "I Remember Pennsy" by Don Wood, there is a closeup of K4 3880 on page 9 that shows this light fairly plainly.. It looks like it might be easy enough to model if the Bowser part Doug mentioned dosn't work....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "RANDY WILLIAMSON" Subject: Re: [PRR] Form CT 220 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:41:49 -0500 Forget my naivetivety but what is a Form CT 220? Randy Williamson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wickus" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 7:21 AM Subject: [PRR] Form CT 220 > Does anyone on the list know where I can buy, beg, borrow or copy a > blank Form CT 220? > > If anyone can help, please contact me off list > > Many thanks, > > Bob Wickus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal Docks Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:30:36 -0700 Jerry, I have some pictures of the PRR docks in Erie on my page: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/erie.htm The Winter '87 Keystone has a Lake Dock Pictorial. ---- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Colman Gerald To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 6:43 AM Subject: [PRR] Coal Docks > To List: > > I am interested in modeling one of Pennsy's coal docks. Can anyone help > direct me to where I can find drawings, plans, photos, etc. > Are there any still standing that I can go and visit? > > Thanks > Jerry Colman > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:31:20 -0400 Subject: [PRR] I've Got That Convention Itch!!! From: Jerry Britton Yes, folks, it's just 4.5 hours till the 2000 Annual Convention of the PRRT&HS kicks off its first seminar...Al Buchan speaking on MoW. I don't know about you, but I look forward to the convention as kids do Christmas! This year's program looks to be excellent. Probably the best slate of seminars in a few years, plus five different layout tours, plus HARRIS Tower is open! How can you go wrong? I'll make reports each evening when I return home. I live just a few miles off-site (lucky me for the next three years!), but they'll be late in the evening, so look for them in your morning mail. The vendor's room won't be open today due to a conflicting event with the space, so look for the first product reports tomorrow (Friday). For those attending, please stop by the www.pennsyrr.com tables. The Cyber Division folks will be hanging out -- with their cool new shirts -- and I'll have new product info, such as the N scale Baldwin Sharks that are coming out. If you can't make the show, check out the Merchandise Service page for details on these and other very recent announcements. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:30:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention Jerry & List - I regret not being able to get a finished building to Jerry in time for the convention but accidents in shipping will happen. Good news, I will have with me on Saturday cast walls so that you can at least see the size and detail for yourself. And I will be there to answer any questions you might have. We know how hard Jerry has worked to promote this kit and certainly appreciate it. Dayna Trainstuff LLC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:30:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention Jerry & List - I regret not being able to get a finished building to Jerry in time for the convention but accidents in shipping will happen. Good news, I will have with me on Saturday cast walls so that you can at least see the size and detail for yourself. And I will be there to answer any questions you might have. We know how hard Jerry has worked to promote this kit and certainly appreciate it. Dayna Trainstuff LLC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Bryn Mawr tower Anyone know what the call letters were for the tower in Bryn Mawr,Pa? Thax Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 06:14:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention -- Day One From: Jerry Britton EXCELLENT session on MoW by Al Buchan. Slides and discussion of some very remote equipment. A handout listed the specific consists of several work trains with references to accurate models. Excellent, Al. I see if we can post this online. Vendors Room was open on an informal basis. Only about 1/3 were actually set up. There is a huge selection of ETT's at one table. Bob Strong showed up with 37 of his superb towers to display. All but three were presold! Numerous ZOOS, a HARRIS for me and one for Ken McCorry, BANKS, VIEW, HUNT, CORK, etc. He also did the Juniata Scales! Met up with numerous PRR-Talk'ers -- some that I've already known and some new acquaintances. Kris Kollar was there and will have his Sharks in the Model Room -- alongside his article from the current issue of Model Railroader. All for now. Look for my next report late today or first thing Saturday. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:55:47 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale on my PRR layout Hi Gang, Well, yesterday I wore my Cyber Division shirt, since I couldn't exactly BE at the PRRT&HS meeting physically! I did put part of yesterday to good use, designing the first staging yard for my layout based on a contraction of PARK, CALN and THORN. 4 mainline tracks go off into oblivion with 2 of them flying over the A&S. The yard is 10 tracks, with the Thorndale coaling wharf in the middle, plus a track for the cinder hopper. I'm still trying to decide if the furthest back track or two shouldn't dive down to the staging yard below (ENOLA) to allow continuous running... The other thing that hasn't been drawn yet is the neat "helper pocket" at Thorndale. There were two coaling towers, of very light construction, placed between two tracks, without catenary, that allowed steam help to be coaled after the coal wharf was taken out of service. These occaisionally have been mistaken for sanding towers, which were also present between these two tracks, but the coaling towers have classic coal chutes. Might anyone have drawings or detailed photos of these unique coaling towers? In the Thorndale yard, the longest siding is 17+ feet, the shortest is 14'. I'm figuring on 20 car trains (2 P-5a, 18x40 footers and 2x50 footers, plus a cabin to be about 14 feet). Anything over 20 cars will require helpers uphill (note that uphill in this case is West from Thorndale and East from COLA as the summit is in the middle of that stretch!! Next to draw is Columbia, and "ENOLA" staging, which will finish the upper deck/A&S component, after which I will post the drawing for comment! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 5 May 00 14:51:52 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation As most of you have heard, the Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society acquired the old PRR freight Station which was at the end of the abandoned Newtown Square Branch. This station dates to 1896 and is reported to be the oldest PRR freight in existence. The station was moved for a new road way. The society had a few hours notice to move the station from it's old foundation to a temporary location out of the right of way for the new road. The Society has received permission to place the station on Township property, a new foundation is in place and the station will be moved on Monday of next week. Being both a member of the PRRT&HS and the Newtown Historical Society, I have been asked to give them a height for the platform of the station to the ground. Since they will no doubt put a section of track in place at a later date, my recomended height should allow for this contingency. This section would probably be non ballasted and use 90 lb rail, as the origional was at the end of the Newtown Line. Would height would you give them for the platform from the ground, with and without the section of track? Thanks for your help. Pete ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 Infobeat Junk Mail Inbox Trash -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright © 1998-2000 American Express Company All Rights Reserved. Users of this site agree to be bound by the American Express Company Web Site Rules and Regulations and the AmExMail Subscriber Agreement of AmExMail and associated services. View Privacy Statement of American Express. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:14:30 -0400 I hadn't heard about this and I can't believe that station is still there! I lived in Newtown Square until I was 10 ('63) and remember the freight station sign on the side facing Newtown Street Rd. You just brought back a memory of our car encountering a Baldwin switcher at the Malin Rd. crossing coming out of the weeds all those years ago. And of our Scout troop hiking across the high trestle over Marple Road where I-476 goes through today (and me telling some scared scouts it was unlikely we would encounter a train as they only went as far as Lobb's Lumberyard on Eagle Rd. in Oakmont by then). Thanks for the memories.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jimy6b@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 17:38:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Day One Does one have to be a member of the PRRT&H to participate in any of the convention activities? James ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 18:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Offical? List, Does the name Frank Conti ring a bell to anyone familiar with ex-PRR Officals? He was supposely a Pittsburgh Region Offical, years 1950's thru 1972. In 1972 went on to Amtrak. The reason I ask is I was at a very large Community sale in my area today and met his son, accidently. I have no reason not to believe what "stories" he related to me but it sounds like his Dad was very important. Worth millions I am told. Anyway his son, who looks like a junk man, nothing wrong with that, was selling a Pennsy Loco Bell along with tons of other non-railroad flea market junk. After looking over the Bell I found that it was stamped with the numbers JN (Juniata Shops) 5412. Wow, another K4 Bell. I might be nterested in purchasing this one too to go along with my other K4 5389 Bell. The Bell has a problem though. The handle where the rope was once tied to is broke off. 95% of the Bell is all there. Just missing the air inlet pipe and the air lines to the clapper. Overall condition is quite nice and untouched as to restoration. He told me the price was $1,000.00. Not bad, cheaper than mine. If I do not go after it would anyone here on the list be interesed in it? I have a feeling the price was raised though after our conversation. He didn't see those numbers and he didn't know it was from a K4 at one time. He does now, (thanks to my big mouth) and hence the raise in price. Who knows, it may have been sold after I left the sale. If I remember correctly as to what he said, this was once his Dads. Oh yes, he also had for sale today another Pennsy Bell. Just the Bell, Price $600.00. Too steep! Thats how I spent my Friday afternoon while the Pennsy Convention rolls on.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Klambach etc Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 01:39:59 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From my perspective in the UK the only good thing about Model Railroader = etc is I can get it in my local newsagent. The magazine seems to use the = same few authors all the time, which doesn't impress.=20 As for the mail order people I have just lost my nearest American dealer = in London, ( 75 miles) and now have to go even further to visit a shop. There is a = good and reasonably priced mail order dealer in south and I tend to use = him. I am somewhat wary of the "dot com" trade as they mey vanish fast = and, how long will they keep their prices down??.=20 If only I could get RMC in WH Smith! Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From my perspective in the UK the only = good thing=20 about Model Railroader etc is I can get it in my local newsagent. The = magazine=20 seems to use the same few authors all the time, which doesn't impress.=20
 
As for the mail order people I have = just lost my=20 nearest American dealer in London,
( 75 miles) and now=20 have to go even further to visit a shop. There is a good and reasonably = priced=20 mail order dealer in south and I tend to use him. I am somewhat wary of = the "dot=20 com" trade as they mey vanish fast and, how long will they keep their = prices=20 down??.
 
If only I could get RMC in WH = Smith!
 
Patrick = Grace
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 06:38:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Day One From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/00 5:38 PM, Jimy6b@aol.com at (Jimy6b@aol.com) wrote: > Does one have to be a member of the PRRT&H to participate in any of the > convention activities? > You have to be registered for the convention. Registration is one price for members, another for non-members. However, the latter is high enough that it includes membership. So, in a round about way, the answer is yes. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 06:53:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Two From: Jerry Britton Another excellent day in convention land. Ivan Frantz did a superb job of organizing. Kris Kollar's sharks were on display in the model room, as were another set of sharks! Sunshine has out a new X-41 box. They had it on display in the silver Merchandise Service scheme. Tons of Employee Timetables to be had....more than I have ever seen. Also, unusual quantities of early Keystones. Lister Dave Wartell came in needing 6 to complete his collection and now needs only 2. He found Volume 1, Number 1! I did not attend the session on Erie, but did attend the session on Geeps. Good, with another informative handout. I previously wasn't aware that the PRR had any of the "torpedo tube" GP7's! We had about two dozen Listers for the dinner at the Ground Round. Went well and good stories were shared. In the evening, the Penn Valley Pictures folks showed some Clarence Weaver films that have yet to be published on video. A lot of passenger operation on the Harrisburg-Williamsport line was included. All for now...off to round three! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:28:36 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] H6s Can anyone out there refer me to a source for diagrams and/or drawings for an H6sb suitable for use in scratchbuilding? Thanks Elliot Fishbein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] "standard" railings What I mean by standard are the 2- and 3-pipe railings the PRR used in many places, like on bridges. The brass railings previously sold by Pikestuff are apparently out of production, but 2 different people had plastic stanchions at the convention. The folks at the Model Railroad StoneWorks booth had 2 sets, which may have been different only in the number of stanchions provided. (I didn't remember to look at the number of pipes). Also, Paul Backinstose had sets which he's done or had done for him, which I believe were 2-pipe versions. MRSW's address is out there and I think I have Paul's downstairs if anyone cares. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:58:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman named cars According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 22:33:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR S-2 Turbine Skipping the PRR T&HS I met Mike Wolf, Owner of MTH Trains, who was appearing at a Train store in Canton, Ohio He had with him two versions of the PRR S-2 Turbine in "O" scale 3 rail. The "current" Rail King version is 25" long and quite nicely scaled down Approximately $425 with sound $325, without - a very nice looking piece. The "Baby" Turbine - the size of the 1952 Lionel - (22") is due later this year at $229 Today, it looks very "toy train" hard to believe how much I drooled over it, at the neighborhood hardware store, 50 years ago In "O" scale the full size Turbine is about 30" long MW did it in die cast, for Lionel more than 10 years ago - Sunset did it brass, 2 and 3 rail versions, more recently, I'll spare you the prices.... Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:10:38 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". How about J. Findlay Wilson. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 00:44:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings The railings you refer to, that is the plastic ones, while very nicely done are also very fragile. Someone also made these in brass a while back. At the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, use those. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 00:51:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings On Sun, 7 May 2000 MarkCFry@aol.com wrote: > The railings you refer to, that is the plastic ones, while very nicely done > are also very fragile. Someone also made these in brass a while back. At The Pikestuff ones were brass; These may or may not (I don't know) have been the P Company ones; Either way, the brass ones are as near as I can tell all out of production > the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My > recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a > project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. > One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, > use those. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bruce Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 06:09:22 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [PRR] Pullman named cars > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? This would be the observation car "Colonel Lindbergh", which ran from 1930 to 1942 under that name. There is a photo on page 387 of Pennsy Power III by Alvin f. Staufer. Bruce Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 08:22:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/00 12:51 AM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > The Pikestuff ones were brass; These may or may not (I don't know) have > been the P Company ones; Either way, the brass ones are as near as I can > tell all out of production > >> the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My >> recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a >> project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. >> One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, >> use those. The P Company created the brass railings. At one point, the entire stock was sold to, and marketed by, Pikestuff. The P Company later reacquired all of the unsold stock. It is still available. It comes in two or three rail versions. The three rail version was used in areas where the public would be. Of those two versions, you can purchase either 45' or 85' lengths. Each package has four pieces of the given type and length. I have limited amounts in stock. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 08:32:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Three From: Jerry Britton Rave reviews from both layout tours from Friday night: Nick Culp's and Jack Kennedy's. No shots fired at the business meeting. Pretty good. No real action in the Vendor's Room. It opened at 10:30, but by noon most vendors were packing up. Many were headed to another show in Timonium. Dana Warner drove in from Connecticut and had the Wilmington Station on display for a few hours. While it drew much interest from those in attendance, unfortunately most had already left. I'm told that lister Rick Tipton did an excellent job on his Covered Hoppers session, so Kudos to another lister! I have heard the following rumors -- which I cannot confirm: H30 from Eastern Car Works GG-1 from Life Like Proto 2000 At the dinner the awards were given out. Another of our own, Kris Kollar, took home two awards -- which he may not know about yet 'cause he wasn't there! One for his Baldwin freight sharks which appear in the current issue of Model Railroader. Also for his L1 (do have the class right?). Good evening session on PRR advertising, and artist Gil Reed was present for an ovation. Oh, yeah, the original Grif Teller painting "On Time" was on display throughout the day, on loan from the family that owns it. Off to layout tours today. The 2001 convention will be hosted by the Pittsburgh Chapter. The 2002 convention has a host but announcement will not be made yet, until a few minor details are worked out. Both will be held at the Radison Penn Harris in Camp Hill which proved to be an excellent venue. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:10:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H6s There is a good HO scale drawing of the H6sb in the January 1974 issue of "Model Railroader" magazine. If you can't scrounge up a copy, I think MR offers a photocopy service for back issues. I also checked Model Railroader's Cyclopedia Volume I, Steam Locomotives, but there is nothing on the H6 class in there (it has H1, and H8-H9-H10). Jim Anderson Thorndale, PA sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 06:31:17 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:35 AM Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Three ... Also for his L1 (do have the class right?). Close. It is class L1s. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:58:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three On Sun, 7 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > I have heard the following rumors -- which I cannot confirm: > > H30 from Eastern Car Works > GG-1 from Life Like Proto 2000 I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's Train House. I wish! -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:50:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Kris, Jerry and All, I must say congratulations to Kris Kolar for his awards at the PRRT&HS annual convention! I knew he could do it and let this be a challenge to all PRR modelers! The Baldwin sharks (subject of the June issue of Model Railroader) and the L-1 (subject of a two part article in Jan and Feb Mainline Modeler) and his L-1 is still listed on the RPM Webpage at www.rpmrail.org and scroll to the bottom of the page. In his words his work is not perfect, but I guess it must be a lot closer to it than he realized. Remember, these are just starting efforts for Kris and I think you will see a lot more of his work in magazines in the future. Again, great effort Kris. I support you and encourage others to follow! Greg Martin PS ... can anyone tell us exactly what the awards were that Kris won? Jerry Britton writes... << At the dinner the awards were given out. Another of our own, Kris Kollar, took home two awards -- which he may not know about yet 'cause he wasn't there! One for his Baldwin freight sharks which appear in the current issue of Model Railroader. Also for his L 1 (do have the class right?). >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Two In a message dated 5/6/00 5:58:27 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Sunshine has out a new X-41 box. They had it on display in the silver Merchandise Service scheme. >> With that scheme, I assume it was the X41B single-door 50-footer, which is great news. Is he also offering the X41 double-door or X41A doubledoor with end doors? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:09:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars BIngo! There were also two others according to Beebe. The Amon G. Carter named for a Fort Worth newspaper man and the Adolphus Busch both of which were ridden by their namesake. Anybody know if that is true for the Colonel Lindbergh which was assigned to the St. Louis train? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Sunshine PRR X-41 kits Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:15:51 -0400 >With that scheme, I assume it was the X41B single-door 50-footer, which is >great news. Is he also offering the X41 double-door or X41A doubledoor with >end doors? > >Bob Zoeller Bob and all, Sunshine offers the following PRR X-41 kits: kit #51.1 X-41or X-41C double door, Youngstown, etched steel roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit #51.2 X-41A double door, Youngstown and end door, etched steel roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit #51.3 X41B single 7' door, post war lightweight Youngstown, metal roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit#51.4 X41B as above with Merchandise Service decals $34. Great looking cars, as usual from Sunshine! Jerry Breon > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:11:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three In a message dated 5/7/00 10:06:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: << I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's Train House. I wish! -D I met Mike Wolf at Trains N Things - North Canton, Ohio - Friday He denied this rumour, and that he was going into HO - BUT Mike is one cagey little guy AND he does have all the drawings and die making instructions for a Centipede, in his computers, so if you close your eyes - and wish REAL HARD - it just might come true By the way - his "O" scale model (and it is scale) is a thing of beauty four motors and four diesel smoke units - it'll pull your house down, but not to worry - the smoke units will drive you out of the basement - first. Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: [PRR] New Product Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:41:24 -0700 >From the InterMountain Dealer List of May 3, 2000. New Freight Car Kits Pennsylvania Railroad USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola Painted Box Car Red with White Lettering. These famous Pennsy cars carry the Keystone Herald. These kits are a very accurate representation of the real composite cars. They come equipped with real laser cut wood sides and Floors. These kits come in tweleve car numbers. Suggested Retail Price $17.95. Another new product by InterMountain/Reboxx is car weights for the ACF Type 27 Riveted 8,000 & 10,000 Gallon Tank Cars and the Composite Drop Bottom Gondola. Thought you would like to know. Randy Williamson R&S Rail Stuff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Fw: X41's Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:02:02 -0400 Walt wrote: "I bought one of the 51.3 cars and I believe the 51.4 was a little morein cost. I can't remember just how much, but I did talk with Mr. Sunshine about it. It was a dollar or two more, but the plane on was the one I wanted." Walt Stafa Walt is absolutely correct. My mistake. Sunshine kit #51.4 Merchandise Service scheme is $35.00 while the other three versions are $34.00. My apologies to everyone and thank you Walt for pointing this out. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 19:30:33 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] H6sb Drawings Hello list, In addition to the H6sb drawings in the January 1974 MR, they also appeared in the February 1961 MR on pages 52 and 53 (you could get the drawings through interlibrary loan or Kalmbach's article reprint service). The drawings are identical, but there are a few more prototype shots in the 1961 article. Pennsy Power I and III (and probably II as well, but I don't own a copy), Pennsy Steam: A to T and Pennsy Steam: A Second Look all have good photos. Hope this gets you started; what scale will your H6sb be? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 20:44:01 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR]HO Centipedes Rumor From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/00 9:58 AM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's > Train House. > Actually, I heard Centipedes from Miracle Castings. Of course, this is a real stretch given their reorg and late H15-44. However, the source tells me he recently supplied them with a whole bunch of materials. I cited the long standing issue of power trucks. He cited an existing unit from Alco. Don't suppose Pat wants to chime in on this one, huh? Can you at least deny it if it isn't true? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:17:34 -0400 An O-scale Centipede? All I can say is WOW! I bet you need to restrict a few bridges with that baby... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:08:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three In a message dated 5/7/00 10:18:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rickstug@mindspring.com writes: << An O-scale Centipede? All I can say is WOW! I bet you need to restrict a few bridges with that baby... >> Hasten to add that I don't own one - but I know two guys here in Cleveland who have a pair each Guess that the secret is if you already have clearances for the J-1, S-2 T-1 or "Malleys" as these two do - you don't have to worry about the Baldwins On my "O" scale version of the PRR the H-6sb predominates and the "Big Engine" is an H-10 Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 09:02:44 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars Charles Lindbergh - The 3-2 observation on the Spirit of StLouis. One of the other cars named for living personalities was "Adolphus Busch". I don't recall the third. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 11:57:53 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp From: Jerry Britton The following is from Nick Kulp, who hosted one of the layout tours on the convention circuit: I just wanted to thank the folks in charge of the convention layout tours for making my first open house experience a pleasurable one. When I was asked to host one of the layout tours I had some issues to deal with. 1. My layout is nowhere near "complete" and not truly prototypically correct. 2. I live so far in the "boonies" that I must have sunshine pumped in. 3. I had no facilities for parking and people had to walk about a block, on a dark country road, to get to my house. 4. My railroad is in a small house, not one of the caliber shown in the magazines. 5. People would walk in, see the truly amature effort and leave disappointed. 6. (the worst) Gremlins would cause some major catastrophy and shut the railroad down. 7. No one would show up and my crew would kill me after I'd brow-beaten them into helping without a break for 3 months. As it turned out: 1. People showed up, about 65 on Friday and only 8 on Sunday according to my registry. 2. The railroad, crew, electronics, trackwork, motive power, and rolling stock. performed flawlessly. 3. The visitors showed more finesse and class even though the humidity and cramped quarters were brutal. 4. Everyone had a blast, guests and crew.5. I even had a particular visitor (you know who you are) arrive around 8:45PM Friday (with my blessing) and stay far beyond the "official" tour ending time. I enjoyed the opportunity to provide one-on-one conversation after hours. I met people from all over the country. All blessed with the same love for model railroading as my crew and me. I got lots of great ideas from suggestions. And I have made a promise to myself that if the PRRT&HS wants to use my layout for another tour, I will gladly accept the request. The tour gave me the incentive to take my layout to another level. Now the faulty switch going into the mine was no longer a "do it later" project. A more concentrated effort to add some cosmetic surgery to the layout aand make it's appearance better for viewing purposes. And other areas that needed work finally got attention. I want to salute the members that visited my home and thank them for the courteous manner they treated me and my home. I extended this invitation to everyone I could, when a visitor left the layout, and I extend it to members that I didn't have the pleasure of meeting or talking to on Friday night. If you are in my area, and want to visit my layout, you don't have to wait for a convention. Pick up the phone, or email me. I operate / work every Saturday night at 7:00PM until I throw the crew out. Thanks for making my first layout hosting a real success. Drop by and say hello. I'd love to have you visit. Regards, Nick Kulp President and hired lackey grade 3 of the Cornwall Railroad --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:17:02 -0500 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR "Standard" Railings I have a copy of a 1918 PRR Enginering print showing the Standard Pipe Railing, if you would like I could scan and Esend or send to someone who could post on a server Can reduce it to about 5 x 8inches. Contact me off list. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:45:06 +0100 I enjoyed reading these uplifting comments. Thank you. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: 08 May 2000 16:57 Subject: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp > The following is from Nick Kulp, who hosted one of the layout tours on the > convention circuit: > > > > I just wanted to thank the folks in charge of the convention layout tours > for making my first open house experience a pleasurable one. When I was > asked to host one of the layout tours I had some issues to deal with. > > 1. My layout is nowhere near "complete" and not truly prototypically > correct. > 2. I live so far in the "boonies" that I must have sunshine pumped in. > 3. I had no facilities for parking and people had to walk about a block, on > a dark country road, to get to my house. > 4. My railroad is in a small house, not one of the caliber shown in the > magazines. > 5. People would walk in, see the truly amature effort and leave > disappointed. > 6. (the worst) Gremlins would cause some major catastrophy and shut the > railroad down. > 7. No one would show up and my crew would kill me after I'd brow-beaten > them into helping without a break for 3 months. > > As it turned out: > > 1. People showed up, about 65 on Friday and only 8 on Sunday according to > my registry. > 2. The railroad, crew, electronics, trackwork, motive power, and rolling > stock. performed flawlessly. > 3. The visitors showed more finesse and class even though the humidity and > cramped quarters were brutal. > 4. Everyone had a blast, guests and crew.5. I even had a particular visitor > (you know who you are) arrive around 8:45PM Friday (with my blessing) and > stay far beyond the "official" tour ending time. I enjoyed the opportunity > to provide one-on-one conversation after hours. > > I met people from all over the country. All blessed with the same love for > model railroading as my crew and me. I got lots of great ideas from > suggestions. And I have made a promise to myself that if the PRRT&HS wants > to use my layout for another tour, I will gladly accept the request. The > tour gave me the incentive to take my layout to another level. Now the > faulty switch going into the mine was no longer a "do it later" project. A > more concentrated effort to add some cosmetic surgery to the layout aand > make it's appearance better for viewing purposes. And other areas that > needed work finally got attention. > > I want to salute the members that visited my home and thank them for the > courteous manner they treated me and my home. I extended this invitation to > everyone I could, when a visitor left the layout, and I extend it to > members that I didn't have the pleasure of meeting or talking to on Friday > night. If you are in my area, and want to visit my layout, you don't have > to wait for a convention. Pick up the phone, or email me. I operate / work > every Saturday night at 7:00PM until I throw the crew out. > > Thanks for making my first layout hosting a real success. Drop by and say > hello. I'd love to have you visit. > > Regards, > Nick Kulp > President and hired lackey grade 3 of the Cornwall Railroad > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:01:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention/P85 Folks, Sorry I couldn't get out to Harrisburg...sounds like a pretty good event this year. How was the attendance compared to other years? The agenda and layout tours seemed like they'd have been a pretty good draw. I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:09:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 From: Jerry Britton On 5/8/00 9:01 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > Sorry I couldn't get out to Harrisburg...sounds like a pretty good event this > year. How was the attendance compared to other years? The agenda and layout > tours seemed like they'd have been a pretty good draw. > I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle > Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but > where it stands I don't know. > regards, There were 350 some registrants. On par with last year. No mention of the ex-Middle Division P85 that I know of. Although Nick Seman was there and actually had good stock. I bought several sets of his new passenger car name sets. No more splicing! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:18:30 -0400 From: ERIC LAUTERBACH Subject: [PRR] Preserved Electrics Just got back from a very long car ride and saw some promising things with Pennsy Electrics. The GG1 at Green Bay looks like it is being primed to be painted. The GG1 at IRM has a very nice fresh paint job. An interesting note on this engine is that on the back cover of IRM's brochere there is a picture of the GG1 on their track that they run things on. Even the light is on and I think the pantagraph is up also. I didn't pick up the brochure until after we had left the museum, so I couldn't ask anyone at the museum. The only bad thing that I saw was the P5 at MOT. It is still rusting away at the back corner of a barn. The up side is that they are painting their engines and really making the place look a lot better. So hopefully in the near future the P5 will be painted. This is in sharp contrast to what the museum was like 8 or 9 years ago when many of the engines were not doing so well. Progress may be slower then we like, but at there is a lot of progress at the museum. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:16:36 -0700 After seeing a note about many keystone magazines available for sale at the convention, I wonder if anyone may have gotten an address or phone number of individuals selling them? I am looking for Keystone Volume 11 No. 4 December 1978 and am willing to pay any even remotely reasonable price. To be honest, I would be willing to pay even the slightly absurd amount! Thanks, Greg Stone PRRTHS member Special interest in the Renovo Yards Always looking for photos or info on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Greg, I don't know about this year (didn't go) but the one convention that I did attend (PGH 1996), Many back issues of the Keystone was available from the Society themselves. Now days I do not think their stock goes back as far as your request.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] thanks for kind comments Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:02:39 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just wanted to say thank you for the many kind comments I received on my = modeling projects, both electronically through the list and in person = while at the convention. Its encouraging to meet folks for the first = time and have favorable words said about one's efforts. Thanks again. However one of the biggest thrills of the weekend was that I got to = cruise around the streets near the convention in Ken Briers' perfectly = restored 1950 Ford F-1 pickup decked out as a PRR maintenance truck in = Tuscan Red and immaculately lettered with Pennsylvania Railroad. =20 Kris ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just wanted to say thank you for the many kind = comments I=20 received on my modeling projects, both electronically through the list = and in=20 person while at the convention. Its encouraging to meet folks for the = first=20 time and have favorable words said about one's efforts.  Thanks=20 again.
 
However one of the biggest thrills of the = weekend was=20 that I got to cruise around the streets near the convention in Ken = Briers'=20 perfectly restored 1950 Ford F-1 pickup decked out as a PRR maintenance = truck in=20 Tuscan Red and immaculately lettered with Pennsylvania Railroad. =20
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:42:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier >> I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt P" Subject: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:03:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking at the potential of modeling (to a degree) the portion of = the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a return loop east of AU = tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) and running = upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other than = commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone = published an article a few years back (got it) dealing with this = section. If they didn't, might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and = connect with another line to 'provide' north-south thru pullman service = into the steel city. Also, about six months ago I had posted a request for info on detailing = Walthers Blast Furnaces. Unfortunatly my computer had a cornfield meet = with my five year old and all files were lost. If those who responded = would re-contact me off line at walpru@stargate.net I would appreciate = it. Tkanks, Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking at the potential of = modeling (to a=20 degree) the portion of the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a = return=20 loop east of AU tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) = and=20 running upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other = than=20 commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone = published an=20 article a few years back (got it) dealing with this section. If they = didn't,=20 might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and connect with another line = to=20 'provide' north-south thru pullman service into the steel = city.
 
Also, about six months ago I had posted = a request=20 for info on detailing Walthers Blast Furnaces. Unfortunatly my computer = had a=20 cornfield meet with my five year old and all files were lost. If those = who=20 responded would re-contact me off line at walpru@stargate.net I would = appreciate=20 it.
 
Tkanks,
Walt P.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention/P85 Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:10:43 -0400 On D&S Hobbies' Railroad Telegraph in the Rumors section, it was mentioned that someone other than the Middle Division was resurrecting this model. No word on when and for how much. Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: KEMACPRR@aol.com [mailto:KEMACPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:42 PM To: BPX29@aol.com Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier >> I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:21:13 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 Union Station Products has had P85b car sides in their catalog for quite some time now. Jerry is a dealer (and asleep at the switch ;-) ). Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > On D&S Hobbies' Railroad Telegraph in the Rumors section, it was mentioned > that someone other than the Middle Division was resurrecting this model. No > word on when and for how much. > > Ted Andrews > > -----Original Message----- > From: KEMACPRR@aol.com [mailto:KEMACPRR@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:42 PM > To: BPX29@aol.com > Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 > > In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: > > << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that > Middle > Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, > but > where it stands I don't know. > regards, > Barry Peltier > >> > I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned > > some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he > said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the > car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal > problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. > > Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:49:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/00 9:21 AM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Union Station Products has had P85b car sides in their catalog for quite > some time now. Jerry is a dealer (and asleep at the switch ;-) ). > Nah, not asleep. I try not to monopolize the list with sales opportunities. That's why I have the "Merchandise Announce" list...which I just shamelessly plugged! Yes, Andy, Union Station Products has had the P85b for several years now. Slap it on an Eastern Car Works core kit and away you go. Still, I think it would be nice to have a complete P85b kit from one source. If I had to guess, I'd bet it is ECW that Middle Division sold the molds to. Given the quantities many modelers need, their price would right, whereas a Bethlehem Car Works kit, with brass sides, would prove too pricey. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. (Don't be scared of carriage returns;-) On Tue, 9 May 2000, Walt P wrote: > I am looking at the potential of modeling (to a degree) the portion of > the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a return loop east of AU > tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) and running > upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other than > commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone > published an article a few years back (got it) dealing with this > section. If they didn't, might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and > connect with another line to 'provide' north-south thru pullman service > into the steel city. Not exactly what you're after, but in 1956 there was one commuter train per day in each direction. I may have another ETT in a few days from an earlier year and will look then. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:16:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] P85/ Combines Guys, Thanks for the replies on my P85 inquiry. I haven't tried the Union Station sides yet, but have one such down in my bottomless projects pile.(Not for the P85, however). Or did I sell the darn thing? Guess I'd lean toward the Brass Car Sides version, having a good supply of AHM lightweights available, but then again it's pretty makeshift as regards roof, ends and underbody. Like Jerry said, it'd be nice to have it all in one P85-specific kit. Still, a make shift car is surely better than none. Well, I'll stay tuned. Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:27:38 EDT Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Co. I have a Pittsburgh terminal area RR map - 1952. It shows the Unity Railways Co. interchanging with the PRR Plum Creek branch and B & LE at Unity Junction. Anybody have any additional information? Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 11:33:17 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P85/ Combines Years ago (1987?) I bought several bags of P70 kit parts from the dealer who bought out the inventory of Alco when E&B Valley bought the dies which are now used by ECW. This gave me lots of P70s and kitbash material since the parts bags were cheap. I built several P70fr's with single vestibules and an arch roof. I used the NE Scale Models wood roof. Is it still available? I also kitbashed a Cafe-coach Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Guys, > Thanks for the replies on my P85 inquiry. I haven't tried the Union Station sides yet, but have one such down in my bottomless projects pile.(Not for the P85, however). Or did I sell the darn thing? > Guess I'd lean toward the Brass Car Sides version, having a good supply of AHM lightweights available, but then again it's pretty makeshift as regards roof, ends and underbody. Like Jerry said, it'd be nice to have it all in one P85-specific kit. Still, a make shift car is surely better than none. Well, I'll stay tuned. > > Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:30:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P85/ Combines In a message dated 5/9/00 9:22:01 AM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. >> I'm also wondering about a streamlined roof modernization of a Bachmann D78 diner as well, but I have had a P85 brass car side on the bottom of the pile for about 15 years at least, so I have a long way to go to get to it.:-). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:34:33 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! list members...welcome back to those who were fortunate enough to = attend the convention...I'll get there next year! For those of us who = might not have seen it...there are a couple of PRR related stories in = the Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside = cover of Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P = dock yard in Cleveland. Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR (and = other roads) on Lake Erie. Great article on page 41 on K4sa 612. = Probably everyone has seen these articles already...but check them out = if you haven't. Regards, Robert Holden PRRT&HS 5044 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello! list members...welcome back to those who were = fortunate=20 enough to attend the convention...I'll get there next year! For those of = us who=20 might not have seen it...there are a couple of PRR related stories in = the=20 Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside cover = of=20 Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P dock = yard in=20 Cleveland. Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR (and other roads) = on Lake=20 Erie. Great article on page 41 on K4sa 612. Probably everyone has seen = these=20 articles already...but check them out if you haven't. = Regards,
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      Robert=20 Holden
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      PRRT&HS=20 5044
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:25:58 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Walt P wrote: > > did any varnish, other than > commuter, run along this route in 1952? Greetings to Walt and the List: I don't think you'll find any long-haul intercity service at any point in history on this line. Reason? Pittsburgh to Brownsville is/was only 54.5 miles and most passenger trains covered the distance in an hour and a half (the all-stops local took about 2:15). Going back in timetables through the 1930s, all of the service that I can find was daylight service. There was a name train, "The West Virginian," that ran through to Fairmont, W.Va., via the Monongahela Ry. south of Brownsville, but it, too, was a daylight train. Somewhere I think I read that it had a broiler-buffet car and maybe, maybe, early in its existence, a parlor. But no Pullmans of the type you're mentioning for 1952. Even that run, which had a total length of 122.3 miles, took just a little over four hours. PRR's Monongahela line wasn't an outlet to any other route or connecting railroad that could have been used by a longer-haul train serving a bigger market. By contrast, the Pittsburgh-Oil City-Buffalo overnight sleeper (269 miles) traveled over the branches (various names at various times in history) along the Allegheny River northeast of Pittsburgh. Hope this helps. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com Phil. 4:6-7 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Dan, Could it be also that the P&LE service from Pittsburgh and points west to Brownsville dictated the non-importance of more PRR Varnish down that line? 1 train per day may have been all that was required to fulfill the need of Passenger Service (be it a local or commuter) on the Mon. Div.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:29:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles In a message dated 5/9/00 1:36:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << there are a couple of PRR related stories in the Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside cover of Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P dock yard in Cleveland. >> Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using but I like it tends to make the photos look even older and more nostalgic Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:13:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Greg - You could try Charlie Horan. He's gone to the Timonia show and he has a lot of old magazines. His email is - charliehoran@aol.com Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: [PRR] steel in the Pittsburgh area Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:36:34 -0700 Hi gang, For all those that have been following this thread, I found out some more interesting info this week. Thanks to those that contributed at the PRRT&HS convention Fri and Sat! There were a string of iron and steel-related industries on the Monongahela River on the South Side of Pittsburgh (opposite downtown), between Liberty Bridge on the west and Jones & Laughlin Open Hearth #4 on the east. Of course, J&L is best known. Just east of the Pittsburgh Terminal Warehouse and Transfer (between 3rd & 4th), was Republic Steel's Dilworth-Porter Division (between 4th and 6th). They were solely a manufacturer of railroad spikes and tie plates. Needless to say, as the railroads declined in the 50's, and lines were ripped up (providing a lot of good used spikes and tie plates), this facility probably didn't have a lot of work! This was a medium sized operation, with forges, plate mills, etc. I don't know when they ceased operations. Anyone? Between 6th and 8th was the A.M. Byers Co. They manufactured wrought iron pipe. This place had welding mills, galvanizing shops, pattern cutting shops, etc. I also don't know when they ceased operations. Anyone? Between 9th and 10th (10th St Bridge) was Mackintosh-Hemphill Co. Garrison Plant. I don't know what they made, but they had a foundry, machine shops, pattern storage, etc. on-site. Also a good sized facility. Anyone got any ideas? Between 10th and 15th was Oliver Iron & Steel. They made nuts, bolts, hardware & wire. They had heat treating, nuts & rivet making, tapping, forges, galvanizing & pickling, etc. on-site. They supposedly went out of business in 1959. They were also supposedly the owners of the Allegheny & South Side Railroad until they went out of business. I don't know if anyone bought/continued this operation afterward, but it was not abandoned. The RR was certainly not abandoned until later, but is now only weeds between the P&LE/CSX tracks anfd the property lines of others. Some of the buildings still exist doing other business. Does anyone known any more? Between 19th and 21st was Levison Steel Co.'s Structural Iron Works. They had structural shopsd at this site. I don't know exactly what was made at this facility, but finished products were shipped from here. Anyone know more? The freight generated in this area was interchanged with both PRR via the Whitehall Branch and 30th St yard, and P&LE via their interchanges with A&SS. This fascinating area is largely redeveloped for other uses, including condos, but some of the original buildings remain. You can still get a feel for it by the size of some of the structures. It would be fascinating to know more! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] convention info O scale Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:11:24 -0700 Did anyone see anything new offered in O scale? Did Steve Grybowski have his crown trucks available yet? - Greg Stone member PRRTHS Special interest Renovo Yards always seeking photos etc. of the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:05:01 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] H6s Just want to say thanks to all the folks who sent me sources, both on and off list. The model will be in HO and bear LIRR markings. Elliot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 9 May 00 23:02:24 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Newtown Square PRR Freight Station The Old 1896 PRR Freight station was moved west about 2 miles to a site west of PA 252, which was the Drexel University's Lodge, now township property. The station will be restored by the Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society. This building we are told is the oldest PRR fright station still standing. It is shame that the station had to be moved from it's original location. Phil Klaus, PRRTH&S member, was present this morning when the move started. Phil is the author of the High Line Published story on the Newtown Square Branch. As the station pulled away Phil remarked, as he looked over the old site which was the end of the branch line, where once upon a time there was the passenger station, the freight station, a turntable and lumber supply yard, "just like it was never here". Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society PRR Technical and Historic Society ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigHookX45@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:00:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preserved Electrics In a message dated 00-05-08 22:21:01 EDT, you write: > The only bad thing that I saw was the P5 at MOT. It is still rusting > away at the back corner of a barn. The up side is that they are painting > their engines and really making the place look a lot better. So > hopefully in the near future the P5 will be painted. This is in sharp > contrast to what the museum was like 8 or 9 years ago when many of the > engines were not doing so well. Progress may be slower then we like, but > at there is a lot of progress at the museum. If you want to see the P5 painted real quick, just start getting some people interested in wanting to see it returned to Strasburg because its not being cared for at MOT, and hocus pocus, the P5 will be repainted in a flash! Rick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt P" Subject: [PRR] A M Byers Co. Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:35:48 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eldon & List, A M Byers had a plant with a bessemer converter just outside of = Ambridge, PA , right next to the Economy Yard. This facility closed as = memory serves around 1964. The converter ended up at Station Square. = Loved going past at night as the converter was 'aimed' at Duss Ave = (approx 300' away) and scared the living out of me and my kid brother. = Shame I was to young to take pictures. Walt ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eldon & List,
A M Byers had a plant with a bessemer = converter=20 just outside of Ambridge, PA , right next to the Economy Yard. This = facility=20 closed as memory serves around 1964. The converter ended up at Station = Square.=20 Loved going past at night as the converter was 'aimed' at Duss Ave = (approx 300'=20 away) and scared the living out of me and my kid brother. Shame I was to = young=20 to take pictures.
 
Walt
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:46:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Stanley E Yoder Subject: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles Excerpts from mail: 10-May-100 PRR-Talk Digest - 05/10/00 by "PRR-Talk"@dsop.com > Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? > Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using = > In a printed magazine, the reproduced color is purely a matter of the ink(s) used in the press. And in the strictly photographic domain, sepia (or other) toning is part of the process of making a print, and is not due to the negative (silver grains in suspension, deposited on a substrate.) Hope this helps, Stan Yoder Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:00:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles From: Jerry Britton On 5/10/00 8:46 AM, Stanley E Yoder (syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > Excerpts from mail: 10-May-100 PRR-Talk Digest - 05/10/00 by > "PRR-Talk"@dsop.com >> Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? >> Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using = >> > In a printed magazine, the reproduced color is purely a matter of the > ink(s) used in the press. And in the strictly photographic domain, sepia > (or other) toning is part of the process of making a print, and is not > due to the negative (silver grains in suspension, deposited on a > substrate.) > In terms of "traditional" printing, the above is true. But in the modern world of computerized publishing, the sepia effect can, and often is, added electronically. Sometimes it is done via an effect with the standard CMYK color seperations, but more commonly it is done with an additional layer, as is often the case with metalic colors for effect. Sorry, guess I just furthered a slightly off-topic thread. Oops! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] B-70 Question Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:43:10 -0400 PRR-Talk: Did the B-70 have brakewheels on both ends of the car or just on one end? Thank you in advance for any direction that you can provide. Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paul Stumpff Subject: RE: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:38:39 -0400 Peter: I do not know if anyone responded to your inquiry about platform height and distance, but here goes from "..M of W Plans of Pennsylvania RR". Vertical distance is from top of rail to top of platform; horizonal distance is from inside of rail to edge of platform. Two plans are listed,one from June,1902, other is Dec. 1905. Freight platforms [1902 only lists one horizontal distance]: for freight & transfer platforms on sidings: vertical= 3'-5"; horizonal = 3'-9"; 1905 added for Main Running tracks: vertical = 3'-5"; horizontal = 6'-0" High Passenger Platforms [1905 only]: vertical = 3"-10"; horizontal = 3'- 2-3/4" Low Passenger Platforms: vertical = 6"; horizontal = 2'-6" Low Passenger Platforms [third rail electrification,1905 only]: vertical = 7-7/8"; horizontal to platform = 2'-10"; horizontal to third rail cover = 2'-1-1/4" All horizontal distances for tangent track; increase by 1 inch for each degree of curvature; high passenger platorms were not to be built for any curve exceeding 1deg 40 min. All platforms have a slope towards track at 1/4" per foot. Any incline built at end of platform was at a 4 to 1 slope. Paul Stumpff; Geneva, Ohio [formerly Greenville, PA & Niles, Ohio] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:45:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Hello all, My search for GG-1 sounds for a Soundtraxx DCC Decoder has progressed, (thanks Jerry!!), and it looks like we only need the sound of the traction motor blowers... Dumb question...where could one obtain these sounds TODAY? Would a "Swedish Meatball" (Amtrak AEM-7) be an acceptable "stand-in"? Is there a preserved, running, electric somewhere that might be a better source? Does anyone have a good analog recording of these sounds from a GG-1 that they are willing to share? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:22:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] HO Modular - Wiring Proposal From: Jerry Britton In reviewing our Standards (on the web site), I see that we actually did (as PRRMO) finalize what standard connectors we use for the power bus (Radio Shack part numbers provided), their orientation, male/female, wire gauge, etc. We also did define that each main line track be independent of the others, so 3/4 keep running in the event of the short. The Digitrax PM4 I will be providing will eliminate the need for separate boosters for each bus. No further discussion should be needed to "get power to the track". We also defined that each module have it's own power strip, with a cord extending at least three feet beyond the end of the module. Fine. Last, but not least, we need a control bus. I propose that each module have a Digitrax UP3 (Universal Panel) on the fascia at the midpoint of the module. Individual builders shall have the option of locating one on both sides of the module. In addition, each module shall include an 8' length of control bus wire. This will enable them to connect their UP3 to the next module...and on down the line. Did I miss anything? Also, since PRRMO merged into the Cyber Division, we didn't automatically carry over the names of the participants. Everyone on the Cyber-Talk list is welcome to have input, but let Bruce or I know if you actually plan to participate. We only want to list MEMBERS WITH MODULES on the web site. With that in mind, Carl, are you still doing two corner modules and, if so, what will they represent? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:09:03 -0400 Subject: SORRY! Re: [PRR] HO Modular - Wiring Proposal From: Jerry Britton Sorry about this...Bruce Smith pointed out that I sent it to the wrong list. Should have gone to the Cyber Division list. -- An embarrassed listmaster On 5/10/00 1:22 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing our Standards (on the web site), I see that we actually did (as > PRRMO) finalize what standard connectors we use for the power bus (Radio > Shack part numbers provided), their orientation, male/female, wire gauge, --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Bruce and list. There was a tape made of the last RPO run in the cab of 4935 I think. Would this be of any help? Will try to locate mine and listen. Let me know. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:30:29 -0400 From: Christopher Chany Subject: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Listers, Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if they are still in business. Thanks in advance. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:52:33 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany Chris, I have been using Poly Scale PRR Tuscan.Looks like a clean but aged car to me.For a freasher look just add some of there gloss. Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:38:05 -0400 From: Reed Kosmal Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Bud, The Unity Railways was a 4 1/2 mile long railroad between Consolaated Coal Co's Renton Mine. Reed Kosmal I have a Pittsburgh terminal area RR map - 1952. It shows the Unity Railways Co. interchanging with the PRR Plum Creek branch and B & LE at Unity Junction. Anybody have any additional information? Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:03:42 -0400 From: Reed Kosmal Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Once again please! Bud, The Unity Railways was a 4-½ long railroad that ran between Consolidated Company’s Renton Mine and Unity Junction. The Unity Railway had had two different 2-8-0 locomotives and later a diesel before going out of business when the mine closed for while. When the mine reopened the tracks were leased to the B&LE. It closed again about ten or so years ago and the tracks were removed a few years later. Reed Kosmal ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:19:18 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Chris, I've built two. They are the only modernized P70 available in HO. How I wish some plastic pusher would do a P70GS for daytime service or a P70K fro overnite. The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor casting. Of course you should ignore their underbody suggestions. The P70FAR's had the trademark ice activated PRR underbody with large ice bunkers and a half round water tank. Get some fotos to work from. Some of the ECW parts are useful, certainly some NE Rail parts are useful, but its not hard to scratch build much of the pieces you need. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update and questions?????? Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:41:07 -0400 Dear List: The kitbash project for the B60/B70 baggage car is well underway. Two cars are finished and two more are still under construction. All need to be painted and lettered. The scale drawing is 75% complete. I want to build a diorama, complete with overhead wire, for the model photography. Many thanks to Kieth Retterer, 1442 East Bank Dr., Marietta, GA 30068 for his beautiful photos of the B60, as built, inside and out! Kieth has gone out of his way to help me on this project. I am preparing a short written history to accompany the scale drawing. The only detailed information I have found so far, is a copy of a catalog from the Pressed Steel Car Co. (aparently the manufacturer) describing this car when new. (this catalog is from Kieth's collection, too) Unfortunately, the information is all in French. I did ask a French speaking friend to translate. I don't speak or read more than a handful of words of French but I think the information contained in the catalog are all technical specifications. I need to know how many cars were made, when they were made, who made them and what their number range is. Does someone have a registry that differentiates between B60 and B60b numbers? Does anyone know of resources concerning the early history of this car? Was it developed in juxtaposition with the P70 steel passenger cars project for use in the New York area, under the rivers, to meet the fire code? Do the two histories (P70 - B60) dovetail? (R60? too?) The RR museum of PA has the first PRR steel coach (P58), 1651, restored and on display. From the gangway on the second floor, I noticed a pipe/wire/conduit? running down the middle of the clerestory roof, on the very top. The builder's photo of the B60 vaugely hints at a similar arraingement on the roof betweeen the vents. Does anyone know what this wire/pipe/conduit is for? I have several photos (on JPG) of the 4 wheel, rivited frame trucks under the original 1651, the same trucks as shown on the B60's builder's photo. In Pensy Power III, there are several pix of this truck: P 369 top B60 5518; P 371 bottom R60, and P376 top P58 1651. Does anyone know the what the specific class of truck this is? I'll be glad to forward a JPG pix of it for your identification if the photos in PP3 aren't clear enough. The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. Thanks for your help. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update and questions?????? Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:42:59 -0400 Dear List: The kitbash project for the B60/B70 baggage car is well underway. Two cars are finished and two more are still under construction. All need to be painted and lettered. The scale drawing is 75% complete. I want to build a diorama, complete with overhead wire, for the model photography. Many thanks to Kieth Retterer, 1442 East Bank Dr., Marietta, GA 30068 for his beautiful photos of the B60, as built, inside and out! Kieth has gone out of his way to help me on this project. I am preparing a short written history to accompany the scale drawing. The only detailed information I have found so far, is a copy of a catalog from the Pressed Steel Car Co. (aparently the manufacturer) describing this car when new. (this catalog is from Kieth's collection, too) Unfortunately, the information is all in French. I did ask a French speaking friend to translate. I don't speak or read more than a handful of words of French but I think the information contained in the catalog are all technical specifications. I need to know how many cars were made, when they were made, who made them and what their number range is. Does someone have a registry that differentiates between B60 and B60b numbers? Does anyone know of resources concerning the early history of this car? Was it developed in juxtaposition with the P70 steel passenger cars project for use in the New York area, under the rivers, to meet the fire code? Do the two histories (P70 - B60) dovetail? (R60? too?) The RR museum of PA has the first PRR steel coach (P58), 1651, restored and on display. From the gangway on the second floor, I noticed a pipe/wire/conduit? running down the middle of the clerestory roof, on the very top. The builder's photo of the B60 vaugely hints at a similar arraingement on the roof betweeen the vents. Does anyone know what this wire/pipe/conduit is for? I have several photos (on JPG) of the 4 wheel, rivited frame trucks under the original 1651, the same trucks as shown on the B60's builder's photo. In Pensy Power III, there are several pix of this truck: P 369 top B60 5518; P 371 bottom R60, and P376 top P58 1651. Does anyone know the what the specific class of truck this is? I'll be glad to forward a JPG pix of it for your identification if the photos in PP3 aren't clear enough. The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. Thanks for your help. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:42:21 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles [PRR] "rholden" wrote on 5/9/00 5:34 pm: > [ ... ] Great picture on the inside cover of >Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of >the C&P dock yard in Cleveland. I have some doubts that it's "pulling"; it's at a lube rack, there's somebody who might be lubing the loco, and I don't think that the headlight is on. Nice shot, though! >Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR >(and other roads) on Lake Erie. Lots of great shots of foreign hoppers on PRR tracks, and (on pg 28) a pic of a solitary PRR hopper in the NYC yard! Things were never as simple as modellers make them! l especially like the story behind the pic on pg 29 (PRR power pulling C&O hoppers on NYC tracks). Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:01:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach In a message dated 5/11/00 7:43:20 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor casting. >> I have long used brass square channel for straightening these resin or other plastic flat kit floors. Precludes a totally realistic interior, but has the double benefit of adding a little weight low. I use the Plastruct variety for squaring up corners and straightening sides, but prefer the greater rigidity of the brass for a straight floor which is critical to operation. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:19:25 -0400 Richard,Chris, and the List: How about Scalecoat II? I have never painted a Pennsy passenger car but I am going to paint some old Bachmann P-70's that I have. I think that the Scalecoat is close but then most Pennsy paints are in the ballpark. Also, I will be decaling those P-70's with some Champ decals. My 2 cents worth Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Richard Campbell [mailto:pennsyneil@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:53 PM To: no-soup-4-you@worldnet.att.net Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany Chris, I have been using Poly Scale PRR Tuscan.Looks like a clean but aged car to me.For a freasher look just add some of there gloss. Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:27:52 EDT Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles In a message dated 5/11/00 8:02:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Things were never as simple as modellers make them! l especially like the story behind the pic on pg 29 (PRR power pulling C&O hoppers on NYC tracks). >> I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a shark AA set hauling a train. I realize this isn't the motive power list, but I seem to recall ( to make a modeler's simplification) that a diesel could start a train it couldn't run beyond a very low speed and a steamer could run at speed a train it couldn't start without help. Apparently speed wasn't critical to the ore trains. Anyway, it gives us modelers some flexibility and variety as to motive power assignment. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:21:07 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Recently I've taken to using solid brass floors on all my "flat kit" models. I've done this on both some ECW P70s and on a series of B60s I am currently building. I use 1/32 bras cut to 1.25 inches wide. I use 1/8 inch plastic channel back-to-back for the center sill. It gives the cars a flat floor, a nice weight, and a low center of gravity. Super glue does a fine job of adhesion. I started with brass floors years ago when building Walthers old heavyweights. I would solder the brass floor, the tinplated sides, and the cast soft metal ends together. Those cars are still running with no warp and no falling apart over the years, as contrasted to the ones built with the wooden floors, held together with "Goo". Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/11/00 7:43:20 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The > slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will > produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never > track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor > casting. >> > > I have long used brass square channel for straightening these resin or other > plastic flat kit floors. Precludes a totally realistic interior, but has the > double benefit of adding a little weight low. I use the Plastruct variety > for squaring up corners and straightening sides, but prefer the greater > rigidity of the brass for a straight floor which is critical to operation. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:08:46 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. OK, so anyone out there with a GG-1 manual know what sort of current/voltage these babies draw (the traction motor blower, NOT the GG-1)? Bzzzt Bzzzzt! Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:37:14 -0400 Gary Mittner wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Who Built Which GG1s? From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Rick, List, I just recieved this incoming email from a "reader" of PRR-Talk. This is a viewpoint on your question. (No snips or editing) Gary: "For reasons far too complex to explain, I can read the PRR postings but can't reply so I will write to you and you can forward to the list if you choose. The various GG-1 groups were built by GE, Baldwin, Altoona, Westinghouse etc. as listed in the various books on the subject. Other than the very first group assembled in Erie, I believe final assembly to just about all the rest was done in Altoona with carbodies and or running gear coming from Baldwin. But the real info I wish to impart is that which I learned while working at Erie GE. The Gs were built in the days prior to the big anti-trust suit against GE and Westinghouse over price fixing. Hence, if GE and Westinghouse each had say 50% of this or that relay, the two companies would trade off the orders and GE would build 100% of a certain relay but put Westinghouse badge plates on 50% of the product. Westinghouse would reciprocate by putting GE badge plates on the stuff they built." (end email) This was from an unknown author!..........Gary Hi Gary: The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and perhaps even today. Sometimes customers complain when they learn about it. For example, Chevrolet engines in Buick automobiles caused a big fuss. In the appliance industry a few years ago, nobody made a complete line. Westinghouse used Tecumseh and Whirlpool compressors in certain size refrigerators, freezers, and room air conditioners. They also made compressors for competitors When the side by side refrigerator /freezers first came out, I believe Amana was the only one making them and applied their competitors nameplates to them, etc, etc, and etc. And that was after the price fixing scandal. Apparently it was legal, because the companies were very sensitive o any impropriety. P.S. I'm a little behind in PRR-Talk Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/27/00 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:00:59 -0400 Steve wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: PRR car plates From: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:59:47 EDT Greetings all, At an antique store, I saw an oval cast plate (approx 6" long) with "Pennsylvania" on top half and a number stamped in lower half. Were these used to ID rolling stock?? Around what time frame where these used?? Any info would be appreciated. The people at this store had no info on it. Thanks in advance Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Steve: You probably saw a PRR tool tag which was used on pieces of machinery to show ownership. I have three of them for sale: Two 4 inch oval PRR tags and one 3 inch PCC&StL. The latter is a rare one. Anyone intereted contact me privately. Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:31:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Bruce & Jerry.Recording was by " Custom Steam Productions, Ltd." 30 Jolen Drive, Hillsdale, NJ 07642 back on 5-15-1977. The 4935 recordings were done by Marc S. Balkin. Bill Ritter recorded the speeches. I listened to the tape but can not pick out the traction blower noise from the rest of the cab noise. Karl Zimmerman made a speech at this dedication, maybe he can shed some light on your project. Sorry I can not be of more help. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:08:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 In a message dated 5/11/00 3:44:14 PM Central Daylight Time, CPIZZO@worldnet.att.net writes: << The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and perhaps even today. >> A little offtopic,but private labeling has been and is widespread. I have been on purchasing and selling end for years in the electrical and electronics industries. Nothing wrong with it. An amusing example I recall was a friend in the 70s who was a rabid Ford fan and agonized before buying a Pontiac wagon. Bought it with standard transmission and then found it had a Ford transmission (Ford had long since quit making standard transmissions for that size engine). For a while, the North Coast and Wangrow people cross-labeled, though that is decreasing (to get this back closer to topic :-). Perfectly legitimate, ethical, and legal. Nothing to do with the pricefixing in the electical industry, where my alma mater Allis-Chalmers (before my time) was also a participant. (AC supplied some of the B1 electrics, just to satisfy the listmeister for PRR content :-)) Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:10:50 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 Carl and all, Some years ago I learned why this was so. At one time there was two suppliers of air brake equipment to the railroads, Wabco (Westinghouse) and New York Brake. These two manufacturers differed ONLY in their different logos, but each produced their own components. Since one company might only deal with, say New York, they would stock their parts. But often they had to repair cars with components from Wabco. These parts HAD to be totally interchangeable, and they therefore were. I suspect that this was also true of equipment suppliers, what one would produce, another had to be compatable with. Bill Daniels Carl Izzo wrote: > > Hi Gary: > > The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and > perhaps even today. Sometimes customers complain when they learn about it. > For example, Chevrolet engines in Buick automobiles caused a big fuss. In > the appliance industry a few years ago, nobody made a complete line. > Westinghouse used Tecumseh and Whirlpool compressors in certain size > refrigerators, freezers, and room air conditioners. They also made > compressors for competitors > > When the side by side refrigerator /freezers first came out, I believe Amana > was the only one making them and applied their competitors nameplates to > them, etc, etc, and etc. And that was after the price fixing scandal. > Apparently it was legal, because the companies were very sensitive o any > impropriety. > > P.S. I'm a little behind in PRR-Talk > > Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:12:40 -0500 Checking the January 1930 Official Guide, the closest to Pullman service on the Mon branch was a train that included a parlor car and a cafe coach. It ran all the way through to Fairmont on the Monongahela RR. Regards, Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Cupper To: Walt P Cc: PRR Talk Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. > Walt P wrote: > > > > did any varnish, other than > > commuter, run along this route in 1952? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:41:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Model Manufacturer Request For Help From: Jerry Britton A model manufacturer has contacted me for assistance. If you can help, please contact me off-list. Folks, please help if you can...this is the only way we can make things happen. Items requested would be for short-term loan. This manufacturer needs: 1. PRR lettering diagrams for the alphabet they used on the letterboard and for car names/numbers would be helpful. 2. Good photos of 12-1's, 3416 parlor cars, 10 section obs, or University Series (12-2 I think) cars would be helpful. My own question: Is the 3416 parlor the 28-1? 3. Also, if you can find a lettering diagram for REA 6100 series reefers.... Please don't ask me who the manufacturer is. I am under non-disclosure. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:27:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] F7's on Panhandle Line Running today on Lines West's Panhandle Line from the Dennison, Ohio Depot are a pair of F7's painted in PRR "red". One has the big lifting lugs on the nose and could possibly be of PRR heritage. The other does not. Unfortunately it is not lettered PRR. It is lettered "Ohio Central". Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS #1974 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigHookX45@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:08:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] F7's on Panhandle Line Former Gettsysburg RR units. The one with the lugs is an ex Milwaukee Road unit. Rick Rowlands ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:10:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic From: Jerry Britton Reiterating the sentiments expressed in the "1999 Annual PRR-Talk Needs Assessment Survey", attendees at the PRRT&HS convention also expressed the desire for a quality plastic R-50b. Rail Classics had a huge success with their brass model from last year. Now Bethlehem Car Works is considering one with brass sides. However, that'll likely put the price in the $50-60 range per car, unpainted/unlettered. What I'd like to see is Red Caboose come out with a kit comparable to their excellent X-29's. These kits, pre-painted, pre-lettered, and with all their separate grabs and details, look like brass when complete. And, at $14-16 per car, one can afford a fleet! I spoke at some length about this with my Red Caboose rep. He will pass my interest along to Bill, the owner. I encourage any of you who may be interested to cite your interest by e-mailing them at "stacktalk@aol.com" (the address from their web site). If not Red Caboose, I'd like to see Bowser do it. Bowser makes cars acceptable for fleets, but so many choose to file off all the grabs and redo them anyway. Why not get Red Caboose to do it right first? P.S. I suppose InterMountain would also be a possibility. Whoever does it first will certainly be rewarded! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 08:41:24 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Hi List, While going thur my projects to finish box I came across a N-8 kitbash from the old Tyco caboose. After rereading the Information in the 2 Model Railroader's I see a giant lack of prototype information about this class. What I am looking for are some underbody drawings and maybe the location of some of these cabins. Thanks Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] [AD] BP-20 / Miracle Castings Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:27:22 -0400 We have received a shipment of BP20 A units from Miracle Castings. They are alive and doing well. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:14:24 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic Jerry, list, Add me to the list of those needing a fleet of R50s. I would probably buy only one if the price is in the $50-60 range (by my calculus, this is 2.5 P70FBRs). I remember in recent list traffic that Sunshine was considering a resin R50; have you or anyone heard anything about this. I would dearly love to see this car in plastic, but I'm not sure the market would bear it. It's true that the R50s roamed the country, but many non-PRR modellers may not realize this. While we PRR modellers are a large market relative to the hobby, we may not be large enough to make this car practical in plastic. I wish it were so, though. Then again, Bowser's N5/N5c cabin cars did well, and they're a primarily PRR cabin car (let us not mention the dreaded PC or Conrail). Here's hoping we get affordable R50s one way or another! Doug Jerry Britton wrote: > Reiterating the sentiments expressed in the "1999 Annual PRR-Talk Needs > Assessment Survey", attendees at the PRRT&HS convention also expressed the > desire for a quality plastic R-50b. > > Rail Classics had a huge success with their brass model from last year. Now > Bethlehem Car Works is considering one with brass sides. However, that'll > likely put the price in the $50-60 range per car, unpainted/unlettered. > > What I'd like to see is Red Caboose come out with a kit comparable to their > excellent X-29's. These kits, pre-painted, pre-lettered, and with all their > separate grabs and details, look like brass when complete. And, at $14-16 > per car, one can afford a fleet! > > I spoke at some length about this with my Red Caboose rep. He will pass my > interest along to Bill, the owner. > > I encourage any of you who may be interested to cite your interest by > e-mailing them at "stacktalk@aol.com" (the address from their web site). > > If not Red Caboose, I'd like to see Bowser do it. Bowser makes cars > acceptable for fleets, but so many choose to file off all the grabs and redo > them anyway. Why not get Red Caboose to do it right first? > > P.S. I suppose InterMountain would also be a possibility. Whoever does it > first will certainly be rewarded! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:20:17 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Richard, list, I've kitbashed 2 N8s per the April 82 MR and the correction in the November 82 MR. I've never seen underbody drawings. However, some really good photos are in Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads, published by NJ International. You can probably get this book through Interlibrary loan. As far as surviving N8 cabin cars go, George Pitz, a PRRT&HS member has an N8. A few years back he wrote regularly to the Keystone about the trials and tribulations he encountered while restoring it, including some photos of brake gear. My issues are in storage, but someone else may know the exact issues. Good luck with your cabin cars! I did one in the 1954 shadow keystone scheme, and later, I did another in the 1950 scheme (as delivered). Both came out pretty well. I had to scratchbuild the crash beams on my first cabin; for my second, I used the Bowser crash beams from their N5/N5c (my first kitbash predated the Bowser N5c release). I also used the Bowser Antenna set (you'll need 2 for your N8). Doug Richard Campbell wrote: > Hi List, > While going thur my projects to finish box I came across a N-8 kitbash > > from the old Tyco caboose. After rereading the Information in the 2 > > Model Railroader's I see a giant lack of prototype information about > > this class. > > What I am looking for are some underbody drawings and maybe the > > location of some of these cabins. > > Thanks > > Neil Campbell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:12:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, List & Everyone. Can someone fill me in on some further knowledge about the picture = on the inside cover of the Summer issue of Classic Trains. One member = indicated that this train was on the 'lube' track. Anyone want to = explain what that was...and why this train would have had to be there?=20 Regards, All...Bob Holden PRR&&HS # 5044 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry, List & Everyone.
    Can someone fill me in on some further knowledge = about=20 the picture on the inside cover of the Summer issue of Classic Trains. = One=20 member indicated that this train was on the 'lube' track. Anyone want to = explain=20 what that was...and why this train would have had to be there?
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 Regards, All...Bob Holden
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 PRR&&HS # 5044
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] PRR N8 info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:49:04 -0700 One possible way to get photos or info on underbody details is to contact brass importers and ask where they got their information. Existing N8 cabooses: the individual who sells Penn Valley Pictures has an N8 caboose which he recently restored. He sent me a calender with a photo of it. He is also connected (?owner/ part owner?) with several of the short lines in central Pa. One is the North Shore railroad that passes by the Lewistown Station. Another is travels between Northumberland and Danville, Pa. A recent Railpace covered these lines. He would probably be able to help you out. There is an internet site that covers several cabooses being rebuilt by and individual for display. One of these is an N8. You might try a search engine for it. I will try later if I come across it I will post the address. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards Always seeking info on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] N8 caboose info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:10:23 -0700 Check out this site: http://crcaboose.railfan.net. It has alot on cabooses of conrail including a drawing of the interior, a side view, and end view. Also on the site, photos of N8 s and others as well as references of articles on the N8 s, addresses of people who own cabooses. I think this would be a good place to start. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest in Renovo Yards Always looking for info on the Renovo Yards P.S. I have some photos of a conrail N8 that was at Renovo if you are in need. I will have to look but I don't believe it shows underbody well. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] PRR-Baltimore Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 22:47:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Ken, Ditto on Baltimore. Grew up there. Remember the PRR very well. = Our house faced the Northern Central. We lived so close to the = Pennsy...I thought the B & O was a foreign road...they were two blocks = down the street! Got to Enola twice, maybe three times a year as a kid = in the early fifties, visiting family. The B & O actually went under our = elementary school connecting to Mt.Royal station...I can still feel our = playground shaking! I'd be very interested in your progress in modeling = the PRR in Baltimore. I'm just sorry I didn't take pictures...there was = so much to see in Baltimore! Regards, Bob Holden, PRRT&HS 5044. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! Ken, Ditto on Baltimore. Grew up there. Remember = the PRR=20 very well. Our house faced the Northern Central. We lived so close to = the=20 Pennsy...I thought the B & O was a foreign road...they were two = blocks down=20 the street! Got to Enola twice, maybe three times a year as a kid in the = early=20 fifties, visiting family. The B & O actually went under our = elementary=20 school connecting to Mt.Royal station...I can still feel our playground = shaking!=20 I'd be very interested in your progress in modeling the PRR in = Baltimore. I'm=20 just sorry I didn't take pictures...there was so much to see in = Baltimore!=20 Regards, Bob Holden, PRRT&HS 5044.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] N8 caboose info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:47:18 -0700 One more web to check out. http://caboosenut.com.I'd bet this guy has a photo of the underbody of an N8. He states he has home movies of every caboose move including them suspended up in the air by cranes. Greg Stone Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:47:26 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] H6sb check valves Hello list, I have finally made more progress on my Lambert H6sb. The base has a sandblasting booth, which I used to strip the lacquer finish (it also loosened a couple of solder joints, but let's not go there now). I'm redetailing my engine to match the preserved 2846, and I have more questions. At what point did the H6sb class lose external check valves. Several photos in Pennsy Steam: A to T show the H6sb class with and without the check valves below the sand dome (perhaps these are just water delivery pipes, but it's very unusual for a PRR engine to have external water delivery pipes or check valves). One photo on page 52 of H6sb 1145 shows the engine with the external check valve/water delivery pipe, and this is in 1945; this engine was modernized with a power reverse, as was H6sb 1749, shown on the previous page. However, H6sb 1749 lacks the external delivery pipe. H6sb 2846 lacks the external water pipe/check valve, at least in her current configuration. Most PRR steam had the check valves in the cab, and then long delivery pipes under the boiler jacketing to the front of the boiler. Since I'm now in Texas, and I don't have good photos of the 2846's cab, can someone enlighten me as to where her injectors are? Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:02:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Strasburg H6sb - special features In a message dated 5/14/00 11:45:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << I'm redetailing my engine to match the preserved 2846, >> Be aware that the preserved loco at Strasburg has some "special" details, which may have contributed to its' survival, but, nonetheless make it a very special project. The H6sb at Strasburg has about a 4" steam line with a big globe valve running out of the fireman's side of the steam dome, forward along the boiler to the steam chest and then down to two nozzles, under the pilot. The loco was used, in yard service, for clearing switchpoints, during winter weather. (Don't recall where it was stationed - anyone know?) The "Docent" who explained the details to me said that the controls for the switch clearing feature had to be operated by an MOW employee, under union rules......... You may elect to model the unit BEFORE this special feature - but, if you include it, it would explain the H6sb's presence on an otherwise all diesel roster Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:03:39 -0400 Richard, list, Another source is Greg Martin's excellent article on page 68 in the November 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler. He has some great diagrams on how to section the bodies, correct the underframe at the platforms, and trainphone antenna mast and receiver placement. No underframe drawings, but the other information, including a blow-by-blow account of the conversion, is most valuable. A note on the collision posts - if you use the Bowser parts, the vertical posts will have to be bulked up - as molded, the members are too thin and have the wrong cross section. LMK off-list if you want a copy of this article. Best of luck on the cabins - I have a pile in my to-do box as well... Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:34:42 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers da, tovarisch... looks like 480VAC, 150A fuse, induction motor. I can't think this detail affects the sound output, much.... best dwp "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to > >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize > >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. > > OK, so anyone out there with a GG-1 manual know what sort of > current/voltage these babies draw (the traction motor blower, NOT the GG-1)? > > Bzzzt Bzzzzt! > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:48:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Lantern Question From: Jerry Britton Back in the mid-1970's, my parents purchased Harrisburg Hardware on Second Street in Harrisburg. They sold the business circa 1979. Among the existing inventory at the time were cases of new Dietz lanterns, looking like traditional railroad lanterns, but not bearing any railroad names. I suspect they were just consumer version "look-a-likes". Most were sold. I still have two of them. They are in mint condition, never burned. The metal is a metallic blue color and the globes are red. There are even Dietz stickers still affixed to the glass! Other than the Dietz name, the only other embossing on them indicates they are Model 100. Given the age and condition of these, are they likely worth anything more than a new "look-a-like" lantern? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:05:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Form C.T. 290 R2 available as PDF I scanned and PDFed my "Electrical Operating Instructions", instructions for PRR electrified territory; You can find it currently at ftp://ftp.dementia.org/pub/prr/ct290.pdf; It's about 8mb. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brady Burdge" Subject: [PRR] S2 Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:13:43 +0200 I posted a few photos of the new MTH S2 on my web site under reviews. Does anyone know if the prototype S2 was equipped with a water scoop? Brady http://ogauge.homestead.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS site change question No desire here to revive an old dispute, but does anyone know why various features of the PRRT&HS web site have been "...removed at the request of the National Directors."? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:57:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS site change question From: Jerry Britton On 5/15/00 5:04 PM, robert netzlof at (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: > No desire here to revive an old dispute, but does > anyone know why various features of the PRRT&HS web > site have been "...removed at the request of the > National Directors."? > > I visited the site earlier this week and noticed some things were removed, wondered why, but had no idea it was "at the request of the National Directors". Hmmmm. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:01:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] S2 From: "William J. Ayers" Brady, > Does anyone know if the prototype S2 was equipped with a water scoop? According to Pennsy Power 1 the S2 tender made the rounds, starting on an I1s in the '30's as class 180-F-82, then on to streamlined K4 #3768 as a 180-P-75, then on the S2 it was classed 180-P-85, obviously being rebuilt each time. There is a fireman's side photo in PP III, p. 194, and in the shadows it appears that there is a scoop nestled between the trucks. I would find it hard to believe that it did not have one. Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] S2 tender Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:27:10 -0700 I live in southern California now.I am a native of Pennsylvania,born in Harrisburg.I was at a model railroad show here a few years ago and came across a "blueprint"of the S2 tender. How it got out here I'll never know. It is about 14 foot long and is rolled. It also came with a "blueprint" of some air reservoirs that were on the tender. It primarily shows all the welds and rivets sites for all the baffles in the tank as well as the slope sheet at the back of the tender, etc. It does not show the underframe. However it shows what appears to be the pathway by which the scooped water would enter the tank of the tender. The tender class was180F84 Capacity 18,000 gals, 75,000lbs. of coal. Now I am no expert, but I am fairly certain that this is the tender that was on the S2 and am fairly certain it had a water scoop. These prints will eventually be donated to an appropriate museum or the historical society. I am waiting to find a place that will make it accessible to the public but take good care of it. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards Always looking for information or photos on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Near Las Vegas Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:17:06 EDT Hi group, I know this is a long shot, But is there any Prr related sites near Las Vegas? I am going there in a month for a week and wanted to do a train related side trip?? And ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Sam Vastano svastano@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:27:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR-published items in Jack Fravert collection For those of you not on distribution for the Jack Fravert auction, just wanted to mention that List 8, closing next week, includes 5 PRR public timetables and a 1925 copy of the Book of Rules. A list and instructions on how to bid will answer your emailed request. Don't look on EBay or for a website, as we're not there. Auction conducted via my email address. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:27:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Grades into and out of Cleveland In a message dated 5/11/2000 9:45:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a shark AA set hauling a train. >> I know that I recently received a lecture on how close to the Lake is the divide between Lake Erie drainage and Ohio River drainage. The Indians' portage points, the canal grades, and later, the tops of the rail grades are suprisingly close to the lakeshore. Being from the wrong end of the Buckeye state, I had to have this pointed out (probably by Mark Bej). So it stands to reason that the helper grades south from the lake might not be too long. If you've ever railfanned the Cleveland & Pittsburgh at Ravenna OH, you'd swear the grade there must go south all the way down to the Ohio River. OTOH, this stiff ruling grade must have been a really interesting helper district northbound at various times. Anyway, knowing the C&P via Alliance and Yellow Creek to Pittsburgh was a "low grade line", maybe it's credible that only minimal tractive effort was necessary to run downhill as far as the Ohio River. Can anyone flesh this out a little more for me? -- I'm headed for the Akron area (NMRA convention at Medina) on Thursday, but have no track charts for the C&P. Thanks, Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 100 09:50:34 -0400 (EDT) davep scribit: > > "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > > > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to > > >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize > > >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends yesterday, I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model railroads is the very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an electropneumatic plant. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:00:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) From: Jerry Britton On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends > yesterday, > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model railroads is > the > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an electropneumatic > plant. > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound decoder!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:25:08 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) >On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > >> Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends >> yesterday, >> I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model >>railroads is >> the >> very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an >>electropneumatic >> plant. Jerry replied: >Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound >decoder!!! Well, Since Columbia (COLA) was almost exclusively run be electromagnetic machines, I'm going to have to scratchbuild a lot of "switch motors" for my layout ! It's either that, or go with Atlas snap switches... I can't wait for the first well intentioned modeler to explain to me how nice my layout is, "except that they do make under the table mounted switch machines" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:35:52 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Streamlined 18,000 gal tenders (was Re: [PRR] S2) Bill Ayers said: >According to Pennsy Power 1 the S2 tender made the rounds, starting on an >I1s in the '30's as class 180-F-82, then on to streamlined K4 #3768 as a >180-P-75, then on the S2 it was classed 180-P-85, obviously being rebuilt >each time. I'm afraid the story in PPI doesn't fit the facts very well. When the 180P75 was removed from K4 #3768, it was converted back to a 180F82, and used behind several I-1 lcoomotives until scrapped. Photographic evidence is reproduced in the Keystone (I forget the issue, but I think its vol 18, on 13,000 gal tenders adn Keisel tenders). The "180P85" on the S-2 was most likely built from scratch following the plans of the 180P76 on the T-1 prototypes. I will check my form 109s tonight to double check on this information Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cathatjim@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:38:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] Taken off of PRRT&HS website Hi, Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It seems like the best parts were taken away from members. What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, Something Different, Mystery Photo Thanks Jim PRRT&HS 6414 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:38:05 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] S2 tender Greg Stone wrote: >I live in southern California now.I am a native of Pennsylvania,born in >Harrisburg.I was at a model railroad show here a few years ago and came >across a "blueprint"of the S2 tender. How it got out here I'll never know. >However it shows what appears to be the pathway by which the scooped water >would enter the tank of the tender. The tender class was180F84 Capacity >18,000 gals, 75,000lbs. of coal. > Now I am no expert, but I am fairly certain that this is the tender >that was on the S2 and am fairly certain it had a water scoop. Greg, what you have is a blueprint of a Q-2 tender, not an S-2 tender (not that that is such a bad deal!) >These prints will eventually be donated to an appropriate museum or the >historical society. I am waiting to find a place that will make it >accessible to the public but take good care of it. You are a good man! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) > wrote: > > > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union > Station with 2 friends > > yesterday, > > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not > heard on model railroads is > > the > > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being > thrown in an electropneumatic > > plant. > > > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should > actually use a Soundtraxx sound > decoder!!! > Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Grades into and out of Cleveland Date: Tue, 16 May 100 10:43:28 -0400 (EDT) > In a message dated 5/11/2000 9:45:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com > writes: > > I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by > the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The > caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore > train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and > the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a > shark AA set hauling a train. RickTipton@aol.com scribit: > I know that I recently received a lecture on how close to the Lake is the > divide between Lake Erie drainage and Ohio River drainage. The Indians' > portage points, the canal grades, and later, the tops of the rail grades are > suprisingly close to the lakeshore. Being from the wrong end of the Buckeye > state, I had to have this pointed out (probably by Mark Bej). So it stands > to reason that the helper grades south from the lake might not be too long. I will limit my comments to geography, as I cannot comment at all on issues of tractive effort, braking effort, etc. The Big Four line (NYC) from Cleveland to Crestline to Columbus is a good reference point, as is the original original B&O main to Chicago. Both are on railroad atlases that all of you have, and both of these fairly closely define the western edge of the Allegheny Plateau. The plateau is deeply cut by river valleys and thus, one is less free in siting one's railroad, should you be in the business of building one. Another example to bring this point home is to compare the number of crossing diamonds in the Plateau area and east versus west of that dividing line. Anyone reviewing a map of western Ohio, Indiana (northern 3/4 or so) and Illinois (northern 2/3 or so) will immediately notice that the lines that previously had been parallel or nearly parallel suddenly take off on straight azimuths, necessitating crossing everything else in their path at grade. The Plateau comes up nearly to Lake Erie itself and is the reason why the lake shore changes from nearly east-west from Toledo through Sandusky to Cleveland, to NE-SW from there to Erie and Buffalo. West of the Plateau, say in Lorain, Huron, Vermilion, or Sandusky, O., there is very little elevation change from lake to land. East of there, however, the lake shore has extremely narrow beaches before one reaches a clay and shale bluff of 60-100 feet. As one progresses away from the lake, every so often (a mile or 2, I'll estimate), there is yet another quick rise. These are old old lake shores, and the ridges not only are named, but often had a road placed upon their crest. Examples are US 20 and OH 84 (Johnnycake Ridge) on the east of the Cuyahoga; US 20 and OH 10 on the west. The mean elevation of the lake is something like 587 feet. The Plateau area south and east of Cleveland rises to about 1300 feet. (This is the snow belt, where, within only 10 miles of downtown Cleveland's 40" average annual snowfall, the annual average snowfall reaches > 100".) The Pennsy's southeastwardly trajectory out of Cleveland necessitates traversing exactly this grade and explains why the helper power can be cut off fairly early. There are upgrades south of there (to just south of HUDSON, if memory serves) which that train may have been able to handle on its own (Bobspf did not mention the length of the train ...). > If you've ever railfanned the Cleveland & Pittsburgh at Ravenna OH, you'd > swear the grade there must go south all the way down to the Ohio River. > OTOH, this stiff ruling grade must have been a really interesting helper > district northbound at various times. You mean the one at Atwater? It basically is downhill for the stretch you mention; I can't think of a significant uphill eastbound east of HUDSON. > Anyway, knowing the C&P via Alliance and Yellow Creek to Pittsburgh was a > "low grade line", maybe it's credible that only minimal tractive effort was > necessary to run downhill as far as the Ohio River. Can anyone flesh this > out a little more for me? Hmm. Low grade is, of course, relative to the original line's grade, in this case, the Fort Wayne's. Have you ever been along the Salineville grade? It's not one to sniff at. Though the C&P does not leave one with the same "washboard" impression that the Fort Wayne does. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:00:57 -0400 Listers, These switch machines are still available. Hudson Shores Model Train Depot has a demo unit on display. There in the Hobby shop section in the back of MR I believe. Chris Chany Bob wrote: Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:00:45 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Taken off of PRRT&HS website The Following is shear SPECULATION: Has all the markings of limiting access to info to members only and/or an additional fee for access to certain types of info. Cathatjim@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > Something Different, Mystery Photo > Thanks > Jim > PRRT&HS 6414 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:09:39 -0400 I know that this might be slightly off the topic of the PRR, but the Purdue University Model Railroad Club had pneumatic switches up until the early 1990's. I don't know the name of the manufacturer, but I believe that the club had pneumatic-operated turnouts since the 1940's. The all switch machines were eventually replace with Tortise (sic) switch machines because of the age and poor reliability of the air powered switch machines. On several occasions, operating sessions had to be cut short do to a severed air line or cracked junction box. They did make a "pffft-hhssss" noise when activated. I do not know if the Purdue Club has any remnants of this pneumatic swith machines. The club does have a web page (check Jerry's web page under links for other clubs, I think that the PRRC is listed) Perhaps they would be willing to give away them away if they haven't already. Tell'em I sent you. I was a member there from '83-'86 and '91-'93. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:40 AM To: Jerry Britton; Mark Bej; davep Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) > wrote: > > > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union > Station with 2 friends > > yesterday, > > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not > heard on model railroads is > > the > > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being > thrown in an electropneumatic > > plant. > > > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should > actually use a Soundtraxx sound > decoder!!! > Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Bill: There has been some discussion in recent days as to why certain portions of the PRRT&HS web site have been removed... > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > Something Different, Mystery Photo The above is only one of many such queries, comments. Rather than allow the rumors/speculation to propagate, can you, as Webmaster of the site, provide some insight/explanation as to these removals? Your response will be distributed to the PRR-Talk list (if you are not a member and cannot respond directly). Thank you in advance for your prompt response! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:50:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) In a message dated 5/16/00 9:11:05 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound decoder!!! >> Or you could go to the pneumatic switch machines peddled by an individual at several train shows, including the GATS in DuPage County, Illinois. I seem to remember this discussion long ago on another list, but in the archives of Model Railroader is a series on the Tuxedo Junction Railroad which at least started down the path of pneumatic machines. The idea breaks down with me when you have to have an air compressor and reservoir, though some modelers have air piped in from their garage anyway for various reasons. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:04:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) In a message dated 5/16/00 9:49:00 AM Central Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. >> In the Tuxedo Junction series in MR, I believe the headline was something like "Switch machines that slam with a kerchoo" or something like that. One of their purported reasons for using was the sound (in those days there might have been some economies as well--the layout had a lot of switches). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:06:17 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Steam Database Project Update From: Jerry Britton Just wanted to update everyone on the Steam Database Roster... It's coming along real well. Phase I is just the entry of all of the road numbers and their classes. I am 23.7% done with this phase and expect to complete it by the end of June...well ahead of schedule. Phase III will be to add all of the electronic, freely publishable photos that I have collected over the years. That will take me through the end of the summer. Did I miss a phase? You bet! Phase II requires audience participation. That's you! I still need folks to index photos in books for cross-reference. You'll need one or more of the books and Microsoft Excel (spreadsheet) software. If you can spare some time, please see http://kc.pennsyrr.com/steamdataentry.html and read a description of the assignment. If you can help, contact me. This is gonna be real cool! ...then comes a similar upgrade to the existing diesel roster and then the passenger car roster! (Not necessarily in that order!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:57:54 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] N-8 Cabin article List, Although the article is a bit dated is still will produce an excellent N-8. There are several advantages today that were not at my disposal in 199o. In reality the article was orginally written and going to be submitted to Prototype Modeler before they "hit the skids." It was rewritten and submitted to Mainline Modeler and picked up for publication. I do plan to revisit the kit in a bit more depth and include present day technology and parts. Should be a lot easier now and if you have any specific questions email me off list. The underframe diagrams for Pennsy cabin cars are very tough to find, and if anyone would take the time to shoot photographs of the underframes of remaining PENNSY cabin cars perhaps we could either have Jerry post them to his site or perhaps Rob's site, then we could at least have a good starting point for good underframes. I do plan to write a "lap/tabletop" type of book(s) on MODELING the PENNSYLVANIA RR in the not to distant future and revist several of the PRR projects I have done and include a few new ones. I would also hope to bring in projects from other authors (and some not yet known to us) to round out the book. I can see the project being put together through Hundman Publishing as I think Bob Hundman over the years has accumulated a good set of archives. I would like to mix in prototype articles like those done by Burt Pennypacker and drawiings like the M1 and J1 that have appeared in the past in Mainline Modeler as well as EMD and ALCo diesel drawings. Bob and I have talked about it before it is just a matter of getting it done and beleive me it could fill several volumes. Just need the time. It would be nice to light a fire under the project but it would help to have some PRR-Talk feed back to present to Bob Hundman. So FIRE AWAY! Greg Martin PS Frank Thank You for the kind comments... "Benjamin Frank Hom" writes: << Richard, list, Another source is Greg Martin's excellent article on page 68 in the November 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler. He has some great diagrams on how to section the bodies, correct the underframe at the platforms, and trainphoneantenna mast and receiver placement. No underframe drawings, but the other information, including a blow-by-blow account of the conversion, is most valuable. A note on the collision posts - if you use the Bowser parts, the vertical posts will have to be bulked up - as molded, the members are too thin and have the wrong cross section. LMK off-list if you want a copy of this article. Best of luck on the cabins - I have a pile in my to-do box as well... Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:08:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N-8 Cabin article From: Jerry Britton On 5/16/00 2:57 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > I do plan to write a "lap/tabletop" type of book(s) on MODELING the > PENNSYLVANIA RR in the not to distant future and revist several of the PRR > projects I have done and include a few new ones. I would also hope to bring > in projects from other authors (and some not yet known to us) to round out the > book. I can see the project being put together through Hundman Publishing as I > think Bob Hundman over the years has accumulated a good set of archives. I > would like to mix in prototype articles like those done by Burt Pennypacker > and drawiings like the M1 and J1 that have appeared in the past in Mainline > Modeler as well as EMD and ALCo diesel drawings. Bob and I have talked about > it before it is just a matter of getting it done and beleive me it could fill > several volumes. Just need the time. > Because of the immense amount of material that could be housed in such a book, might I suggest setting up separate volumes for freight, MoW, passenger, diesel, steam, etc.? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:17:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Streamlined 18,000 gal tenders (was Re: [PRR] S2) I said: >I'm afraid the story in PPI doesn't fit the facts very well. When the >180P75 was >removed from K4 #3768, it was converted back to a 180F82, and >used behind several >I-1 lcoomotives until scrapped. Photographic >evidence is reproduced in the >Keystone (I forget the issue, but I think >its vol 18, on 13,000 gal tenders adn >Keisel tenders). The "180P85" on >the S-2 was most likely built from scratch >following the plans of the >180P76 on the T-1 prototypes. >I will check my form 109s tonight to double check on this information I just had a chance to check Form 109-J (May 15, 1948) and it reported the following classes: 180 F 75, No. 6130 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 76, Nos. 6110, 6111 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 F 79, Formerly N&W (Nos. 373-378 inc) 180 F 82, No. 6000 (Converted from 180 P 75) 180 F 82a, Converted from 180 F79 for I1s, I1sa (Berkley Stoker) Nos. 373, 374, 375, 377 180 F 84 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 84 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 85 No. 6200 (Stoker engine on tender) The data listed for the 180 F 82 (No. 6000) is exactly the same as for the 180 F 82 listed in Form 109-I, December 1933, confirming that this is the tender that was converted for use with the I-1 and then reconverted (as noted in by the PRR "Converted from 180 P 75" above). The 180 P 85 specs are almost identical to those of the 180 P 84 indicating a similarity of design there as well. Where Staufer got the story about the 6200's tender isn't clear, but it seems pretty clearly incorrect. BTW, anyone have anything to add about the 180 F 75 # 6130? Is this the Q-1? The 180 F 84 are the Q-2s and the 180 P 84 are the production T-1s. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:38:49 -0700 > ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.[SMTP:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:25 AM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) > > >On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > > > >> Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends > >> yesterday, > >> I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model > >>railroads is > >> the > >> very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an > >>electropneumatic > >> plant. > > Jerry replied: > >Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx > sound > >decoder!!! > > Putting one speaker in an interlocking is really not that far-fetched. But it begs the question: Has anyone actually recorded the distinctive electropneumatic switch sound? I would think this would be good sound to record for posterity. I can see someone asking about this a few decades from now, just like people have recently been asking about GG-1 blower sounds. I'd encourage railfans with tape recorders to try to capture this one. I'd do it myself next time I'm railfanning, but I don't know of any EP machines here in the Pacific Northwest. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:57:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic From: Jerry Britton I'm considering taking the kids out to Horseshoe Curve on Saturday. What time of day -- on a Saturday -- tends to see the most traffic, including passenger traffic? I realize it can be hard to predict, especially with NS, but I was once there with my daughter for an hour and didn't see a single train! (Fortunately she was excited to count the number of steps up the hill!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:35:45 -0400 The pneumatic switch machines are still made. The company's name is Del-Aire I think. I have a friend who swears by them. He started using them on an outdoor G scale layout and now uses them on his HO scale layout also. They just let out a short hiss when the switch is thrown, not quite as impressive as as real pneumatic switch, but I guess it's closer than a Tortise... Rob -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof To: Jerry Britton ; Mark Bej ; davep Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) >--- Jerry Britton wrote: >> On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) >> wrote: >> >> > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union >> Station with 2 friends >> > yesterday, >> > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not >> heard on model railroads is >> > the >> > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being >> thrown in an electropneumatic >> > plant. >> > >> Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should >> actually use a Soundtraxx sound >> decoder!!! >> > >Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, >someone was making and selling pneumatic switch >machines and the associated panel "switches" for model >RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely >pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves >could be slipped in between the electrical control and >the actual actuator. > >Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That >may have been why they never caught on. > > -- > > >===== >Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 100 16:43:17 -0400 (EDT) John Cooper scribit: > Putting one speaker in an interlocking is really not that far-fetched. But > it begs the question: Has anyone actually recorded the distinctive > electropneumatic switch sound? > > I would think this would be good sound to record for posterity. I can see > someone asking about this a few decades from now, just like people have > recently been asking about GG-1 blower sounds. I had my laptop (with sound card) with me in the Windy City, but alas, it was in the car, and not by my side when the thought came to mind. Besides which, 'twould have been mighty difficult carrying it AND my camera bag AND the other junk I was carrying under my arm at the time. OTOH, what my laptop has in portability it does not quite have in sound quality. At least on the output side. Perhaps the input side is not quite so handicapped. But I'm "east" often enough and will make a recording sometime soon, for which I shan't charge a dime. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:58:41 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RESPONSE FROM SOCIETY: PRRT&HS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Received the following e-mail from Bill Morlitz, who maintains the PRRT&HS web site... ---------- From: prrbill Organization: Haphazzard at best Reply-To: prrbill@Op.Net Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:27:32 -0400 To: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: PRRT&HS Web Site Jerry Britton wrote: > Bill: > > There has been some discussion in recent days as to why certain portions of > the PRRT&HS web site have been removed... > > > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > > Something Different, Mystery Photo > > The above is only one of many such queries, comments. > > Rather than allow the rumors/speculation to propagate, can you, as Webmaster > of the site, provide some insight/explanation as to these removals? > Jerry, I'm sure the talk on your List is stimulating concerning these changes. As stated on the website, "at the request of the National Board of Directors the PRRT&HS, the following portions of the National's website have been eliminated: " What's New PRR Psgr Cars Broad Street Station The Darkroom Keystone Articles The Information Exchange PRR Modeling Photo of the Week Something Different Mystery Photo The above portions will be moved to the Philadelphia Chapter site as needed and as time permits. It was the decision of the National Board of Directors at the May 5th meeting that the National's portion of the website become more informational (meetings, events, publications) than interactive (the Information Exchange Forum, Mystery Photo of the Week, etc.). As Superintendent (Steve is the webmaster), we serve at the pleasure of the National and Philadelphia Chapter's Boards and must adhere to their directives & guidelines. The Philly Chapter was more than glad to take over the portions that the National would pass on. As soon as Steve can affect the changes, those missing parts will be up. Best, Bill Morlitz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Charlesworth" Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:25:12 -0400 The westbound Pennsylvanian and the eastbound Three Rivers go through between 11 AM and 12 PM, if they are on time. The afternoon has normally been the heavy traffic period with the fleet of piggybacks both directions. Lately though, there are trains all day long without much dead time... We saw about 15 trains in 4 hours last Saturday afternoon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic > I'm considering taking the kids out to Horseshoe Curve on Saturday. > > What time of day -- on a Saturday -- tends to see the most traffic, > including passenger traffic? > > I realize it can be hard to predict, especially with NS, but I was once > there with my daughter for an hour and didn't see a single train! > (Fortunately she was excited to count the number of steps up the hill!) > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:42:11 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] N Scale Atlas H-24-66 Hello list, Atlas will be releasing an N scale Trainmaster. Retail (decorated) between $125-135. They'll have PRR numbers 8703, 8705, and an unnumbered unit. Now, if we could figure out a simple way to add an antenna set to these units before they arrive (Atlas is predicting August), that would be really neat.... You N scalers have had a good year so far; Bowser will be doing N5c cabin cars. If I could get an inexpensive, durable K4s, I would be tempted to model more in N. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: [PRR] New NS work rules Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:20:35 -0700 Guyz, Since the NS recently took over the operations of the former PRR these new work rules are being put into effect. Thought you might be intrested in the "gentrification" of the railroad workplace :-) Bill Daniels Norfolk Southern's Top Ten work rule changes for Conrail This special Top Ten List comes straight from NS corporate headquarters, located behind Sam Drucker's General Store, Hooterville, North Carolina. The Top Ten changes in work rules expected to most adversely affect former CONRAIL employees: 10. All locomotives must now have gun racks. 9. Instead of meal tickets, train crews will be issued an RC and a Moon Pie. 8. Train crew headgear must display the "Redman" chewing tobacco logo. 7. All train crews are now required to have a coon dog asleep on the front platform of the loco. 6. Each crewmember must put sticker for favorite NASCAR driver in cab windows. 5. Robert E. Lee's birthday now a paid holiday; 4th of July (fall of Vicksburg) a day of mourning. 4. All yards required having at least two inoperable locos on blocks in front of the yard office. 3. Grade crossing horn signal is now the first 12 notes of "Dixie." 2. All radio transmissions now required to end with "Y'all." And the Number One change to CONRAIL work rules after the NS takeover: 1. Road Foreman job title changed to Overseer! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:40:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Atlas Trainmasters From: "Doug and Marianne" > Now, if we could figure out a simple way to add an antenna set to these > units before they arrive (Atlas is predicting August), that would be > really neat.... Gold Medal Models makes an N Scale etched brass set of various PRR antenna brackets for locomotives and cabin cars. They are quite simple to install and the results are excellent. All you need is a pin vice with #78 or #80 drill bits, CA cement and brass wire. Anyone interested in modeling the PRR in N Scale should check out this site: http://www.egroups.com/group/PRR-n_scale Doug N. babal@slip.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:51:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: X41's In a message dated 05/07/2000 7:05:58 PM Central Daylight Time, jbreon@email.msn.com writes: << Walt wrote: "I bought one of the 51.3 cars and I believe the 51.4 was a little morein cost. I can't remember just how much, but I did talk with Mr. Sunshine about it. It was a dollar or two more, but the plane on was the one I wanted." Walt Stafa >> Walt Stafa Please contact me off list, RE: old aquaitnances. AlbertSr@aol.com Al Stump ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:00:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New NS work rules I think No.5 is a great idea!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:27:05 -0400 From: David Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic I talked with Martin Loftin about the R50 for the third convention in a row. He indicated that it is still in the works. The person doing the masters is the same person that did the X41 introduced at the convention. This person has recently moved to a different home and is still getting moved in and set up. There was no estimate regarding completion. Dave Pfeiffer >I remember in recent list traffic that Sunshine was considering a resin R50; >have you or anyone heard anything about this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Re: Pneumatic switches, was:Various subjects --- Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/16/00 9:49:00 AM Central > Daylight Time, > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > << Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. > That > may have been why they never caught on. >> I guess the fact that my tongue was well into my cheek didn't show. > > In the Tuxedo Junction series in MR, > (in those days there might > have been some economies as well--the layout had a > lot of switches). The Tuxedo Junction was built in a time when reliable, cheap, high current, low voltage rectifiers just didn't exist. Numerous folk ran model RR's from car batteries because the best rectifiers ordinary folk could buy couldn't keep up with the 1 amp/HO motor which was par in those days. Selenium rectifiers became available for model railroad use in the early '50s, silicon a bit later. So, I suspect that much of the appeal of the pneumatic switch machines was that you didn't have to steal a copper oxide rectifier bank from the phone company in order to run them. Of course, you needed an air compressor, but in those days every discarded refrigerator housed a neat little compressor that could be adapted to air. Come to think of it, wasn't the PRR's use of electro-pneumatic machines a reflection of the unavailability of electricity in industrial quantities? That is, use a little bit of electricity to signal a valve to let in air to do the heavy lifting and heaving, because a little bit of electricity was all you could afford in 1910 or thereabout. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:13:19 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pat, it's good to hear MC is still kicking! Hi Pat, Glad to hear that you've survived the trials and tribulations of the first couple of years of a growing business. I've finally recieved my disability pension. A lump sum settlement is allowing me to buy an A-B-A Erie Built lashup and an A-B BP20 lashup painted DGLE from Dave Higgenbotham's DLH locomotive works in Springfield Ohio. Now to add to my kitbash procrastination list. I've not seen any H-15-44s or H-16-44s on the Pennsy Cincinnati or Columbus Divisions. There were a bunch of H-20-44s assigned to switching duties in and around Cincinnati. It may be too simple to say that the only difference between these marques, from a modeling standpoint is the H-20-44's cab sits further back, eliminating the short hood to accomodate the larger prime mover. The H-20-44 was marketed as a road switcher but usually used as a super switcher for yard or transfer duties. The long hoods are generally the same. Might it be possible to market an alternative cab conversion kit so I can model this engine? And don't forget the center cab transfer motors. Modeling the Baldwin will give you a model used by the PRR and ATSF that I can bash into mt beloved butt-ugly LH 2400 Centercab transfer locomotive. In a message dated Tue, 2 May 2000 10:18:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Miracle Castings Inc." writes: << Hi Everyone! Sorry I haven't responded to the posts on the list sooner, but I've been one busy camper. Just so everyone has the story straight, here's what's been happening at Miracle Castings Inc., and what will happen: 1) Miracle Castings has undergone an internal reorganization, which has seen the following changes take place: Mike White has stepped down as CEO, and is being replaced by me (Pat Lawless). Scott Heiden remains as President. Mike has taken over the Vice President's position, but won't be involved on a day-to-day basis with the operation of the company, due to other committments. While the negotiations around these business changes were taking place, not much activity was going on within the company, due to the uncertainty of the outcome. However, as of last Wednesday, the necessary papers were signed, and everyone here is happy with the outcome. 2) The web site problems actually were due to the service provider temporarily shutting down. They shed their dial-up service, reorganized, and re-opened offering only web hosting services. Our site is now back up and running, but there are still a few glitches. Let me know if you find any. Needless to say we weren't happy with the complete lack of notice, and coming when it did, this certainly was enough to generate a few rumours. 3) The company is definitely going ahead with the H-15-44, as well as with lots of future projects. As owners, Scott and I will be handling the day-to-day operations of the company, and we are committed to seeing this through. Miracle Castings is here for the long haul. The response to the products we have already offered has proven to us that there is a market for what we have to offer, and we aren't going to let the opportunity go by. 4) To help grow the company faster, and improve communications and service with our customers, I have added a Sales Manager to our organization. His name is Dave Henwood, and he can be reached at sales@mc.cyklone.com , or on his cell phone at (519) 754-6945. Dave is an accomplished modeler with an excellent background in sales, plus a thorough knowledge of the model railroading industry. We're glad to have him associated with our company, and you will find him to be very helpful if you have questions. 5) I'm swamped! There's a lot of catch-up work to do, but I'm making progress, and getting lots of help from the other people who are associated with Miracle Castings. Just for the record, here's some of the people who have been involved with Miracle Castings in the past, and who are looking forward to being involved in the future: Al and Debbie Stefanovic: Casting contractors John Lucek: Kit assembly and physical plant Barry McClelland: Model maker, mold maker, and caster. Judy Heiden: Administration All of these folks have advised me that they are behind us 100%, and that they are looking forward to being very busy in the future. In short, it's going to take a very large stick to kill this company, so don't worry about us. Now that things are cooking again, we're going to be pushing hard to complete existing projects (such as the H-15-44 and the Gas Launch), and planning for future products as well. So stand by, and we'll have some new stuff for you to buy shortly! I'll keep Jerry notified of availability just as soon as I have some firm numbers. Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:48:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] LWFF2 in 2001 - Let's do it right!! Rick, I'm responding on list to get the word out that the second LWFF will be held in 2001. I will go online this weekend with an announcement stating I'm looking for dates in the late summer or early fall of 2001 for the second LWFF. I agree that these is not enough time to properly pull off a show in 2000. I thought my last missive to you in early April after the Springfield, Ohio, train show stated this. A 15-month-lead time not only fulfill's my need for greater procrastination opportunities but will allow us to coordinate dates with major vendors. I do not want this to devolve into a flea market. However, I would like to explore coorindating the LWFF date with another major club or NMRA meet or major flea market (Ala the semiannual Springfield, Ohio train show or the Buckeye Railroadiana and Model trains flea market at the Ohio State Fairgrounds in Columbus to make attending our show attractive to the vendors. The long lead time also allows us more time to program the workshops. I'd like to see some thought about commissioning multiple presentations on subjects so that attendees would have a choice of following the theme path or follow more generalized presenations or presentations designed for an entry level of interest. As I am in the process of getting my first chair (a sleek black electric, six-wheeled SUV of a powered wheelchair with off-sidewalk capabilities; delivery by the end of the month), the Xenia Armory is out as a location because it is handicapped inaccessible. Fifteen months will give us enough time to find the RIGHT space in which to meet. Columbus would be a good location. Unforseen problems with the voice data entry program upgrade and some more heatlh problems (My wife still hasn't healed from a Jan. 1999 abdomional surgery and my empysema ain't too bad but just enough of a glitch to magnify my allegies) have kept me off line. I still haven't figureed what the message "An AOL problem has occurred" but it is keeping me off line. I'll be meeting with a service person shortly to trouble shoot the system (or are we going to shoot the troubling system?) TTFN Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:30:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] R-50b From: Jerry Britton A very well known HO manufacturer is asking me about the R-50b. They are looking into making this their next project in plastic...all plastic!!! A few questions I am trying to answer for them. 1. What other roads, if any, used the R-50b? Please provide ORER/ORPTE references if possible. 2. Any references to published lettering diagrams? 3. When was the car first built? 4. How late did they last in service? 5. How many did the PRR have? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] CT1000 quandry, maybe some light Back in March of this year, Jerry Britton posted a question regarding some data from the 1945 CT1000 which puzzled him. The particular question revolved around the Marysville/Rockville area. Last night I fell into a similar puzzle in the same area, but in the 1923 CT1000. I was following, or trying to follow, the Main Line into Harrisburg, from the east (Philadelphia Div. in 1923). At the end of the list, there was a short section which, in the margin, was marked "Middle Division Tracks operated by Philadelphia Div." Leafing around through the book, I found another list, this one headed "Baltimore Div. (operated by Phila. Div.)" which described the same track noted above. That in the pages devoted to the Baltimore Division. Elsewhere, yet another list, in the Phila. Div. pages, which nearly duplicated the description in the Balto Div. pages. So, three different descriptions of the same few miles of track, and they don't match. (It was late, and I didn't think to check the Middle Div. pages to see if they too had something conflicting to say about the Enola/Rockville/Marysville area.) My point is that here and there, and Harrisburg is one of those places, the CT1000 has multiple descriptions of the Stations and Sidings, and those descriptions are not necessarily identical. Finding one description, which doesn't match very well with what one knows from other sources, causes confusion. Look further elsewhere in the book, and there may be a different description which fits better. I can speculate for a long time about why there would be multiple descriptions and why they would not be identical, but I don't _know_ why. Although I think he stated it poorly, Bill Strassner was right when he pointed out that the CT1000 was intended for a particular purpose, and recording the connectivity of the track layout was not that purpose. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:42:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Jerry, I get a little irked at these companies and their little production secrets, but maybe you should direct these folks to the Railway Express Agency book by Vic Roseman(?spelling) and one of Al Westerfield's ORER diskettes. I understand that's where express reefers are listed. It seems the REA book has photos of these cars as well as rosters. These resources should answer the questions these people have posed, aside from 'did anyone else use them?'. (I don't think anyone did, but I'm sure someone more aquainted with them should be able to offer a definitive answer). Once again, I'll believe them when I see them, but certainly something to hope for. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b In a message dated 5/18/00 7:39:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << 1. What other roads, if any, used the R-50b? Please provide ORER/ORPTE references if possible.> News to me that anyone else had them,but I am sure someone has that answer. 2. Any references to published lettering diagrams? No, but the photo in the Train Shed Cyclopedia NO. 3, page 189, gives a good picture. I couldn't find it in the small print in some long-ago Keystone, but I seem to recall that the R50b was one of the first conversions from gold leaf to buff lettering, by World War II if I recall correctly. <<4. How late did they last in service? 5. How many did the PRR have? >> Dont know the number built , but October 31, 1952, there were 536. (Jan53 ORER) Roseman says 271, but doesn't give the date, except to note that by 1967, only 67 remained. They were around as storage sheds for a while (there is a photo of one at Altoona in 1960). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR H-21 on N&SS The Cleveland State University library has scanned a book of photos taken from a never-published book on the Newburgh & South Shore RR, circa 1920. The URL: web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/nssbk/captions.html Picture #71 is of a 140,000 lb capacity hopper car, which looks to me to be an H-21A (clam-shell hoppers, heavy end sills, Crown trucks) Some time ago, when Bowser announced the clam-shell H-21's in a variety of paint schemes, there was some talk here about "did X really exist, did X really have H-21's?" I don't recall seeing the N&SS mentioned. I wonder, did we ever reach any conclusion about how PRR cars came to be owned by other railroads? Did PRR have some investment in N&SS? The 1920's seems rather early for PRR to be disposing of H-21's as surplus. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:37:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Barry, Jerry and all, There are two trains of thought in the hobby industry today regarding "these companies and their little production secretes." After taking on the Scuttlebutt column for Mainline Modeler you get a better view of the producers and their concerns as to how information is offered to the market place. There are those who believe that if you "tell all" then the big guys will stay away and if they have not started the project then they will back off or at least let them the small guys know that the big guys is working in that direction, thus keeping the little guy from spending his hard owned dollars on a marginal project. Good idea right, good communication should help the industry, right? The problem is it never seems to work. The second train of thought is if they (big or small) keep the secrete then the other guy will not offer the same project using the marketing research done by the original. Believe it or not it does happen. Case in point the Atlas RS-3, the Stewart RS-3,and the MDC RS-3 when the Hobbytown was already on the market. Then there are the problems that arise even if the public knows that a project is underway. The producer puts a target release date out there and if missed the producer is flooded with "what happened?" inquiries. And with the advent of the Internet, well the actions are three fold. In the past it was more effort to write a letter and mail it via Snail Mail and await a reply, and easy to dodge as a producer. A current case in point is the Miracle Casting's new FM H-15-44. Since I annouced it (with the blessings of Pat Lawless) I have been flooded with Email and phone calls from people wanting to know "when" and how come the server for Miracle Castings is down? It is now very clear to me that Pat has picked a "Home Run" and it will be a big seller and he will become very well known for it. I think, hell I know, Pat has been flooded with calls at home because I think I was either the first call people made or if Pat did not call them back PRONTO then they called me and hell,! I am three time zones away. So you tell me what the anse is... I try to not speculate in my column or online on what a producer is going to do and when, even though I might know more than I tell , and I do... it is a matter of trust. I can tell you this much that the hobby industry is healthy and we shall reap the benifits! I have an complete packet ready to mail to what I believe is a very serious producer, who is willing to "look at the project." I have some off line conversations going regarding the project. I did this with a friend on the PCL list and i can tell you that we all shoould see some high quality Budd Passenger cars circa 1948 and later that many PRR modelers will benifit from perhaps by Christmas. GREG Martin Barry Writes: << Jerry, I get a little irked at these companies and their little production secrets, but maybe you should direct these folks to the Railway Express Agency book by Vic Roseman(?spelling) and one of Al Westerfield's ORER diskettes. I understand that's where express reefers are listed. It seems the REA book has photos of these cars as well as rosters. These resources should answer the questions these people have posed, aside from 'did anyone else use them?'. (I don't think anyone did, but I'm sure someone more aquainted with them should be able to offer a definitive answer). Once again, I'll believe them when I see them, but certainly something to hope for. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:41 -0400 Bob Zoeller speaking of PRR R-50bs wrote: >They were around as storage sheds for a while (there is a >photo of one at Altoona in 1960). Last time I was there (8/99) I saw an R-50b without trucks being used as a shed behind the Lewistown station. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:52:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] R-50b response Guys, Just for ducks I sent a message off to the Santa Fe List to see what kind of response there was on their list regarding the R-50b. The SFHMA did an article in the Warbonnet on head end equipment and they did mention the R-50b and how often it showd up in Santa Fe consists and the response has been equal to our own PRR-Talk list. It is important that a project like this can be a as well recieved by modelers other than just SPF's. I think it has gone well to this point. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: [PRR] CT1000 updates Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:07:40 -0700 Hi folks, Speaking of CT1000 issues, does anyone out there know if any updates to the 1945 version were ever issued? I realize it was a tremendous effort to generate a CT1000, but they seem vitally important. Can anyone speculate as to why PC issued something called a D.I.C.C.S. in 1970 that looks like a REALLY nice track chart/industry diagram? Has anyone seen one of these? The only one I have is for a small portion of the Monongahela Branch (Shire Oaks), but in the margins it refers to others (i.e., 30th St.). Why did PRR not do these? How would shippers, trainmen, etc. been able to tell if businesses were still connected to the PRR or no longer shipping by rail? Without a detailed track diagram (and you have to admit, the track charts are not detailed), how would PRR employees know the capacity of a siding, whether it was a facing or trailing switch, whether there were unloading facilities and on what side of the track versus end loading, etc.? On a big Division/Region/Branch, memorizing this or passing it on by word of mouth must have been formidable! What about freight car usage? Besides the notes in the ORERs (and often on the sides of the freight cats themseleves), are there any PRR documents that spelled out which freight cars were used for what kinds of freight? If a PRR employee was faced with a shipper that wanted to ship product that might not have fit into a standard boxcar or gondola, like an oversize load that would have required an F25c or G36h, or a special high capacity flat car, how would these people known what to ask for unless they intimately knew all the cars themselves? Any ideas? Thanks for your thoughts! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:16:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] something interesting about track charts Photocopy of a 1951 PRR Pittsburgh Division track chart arrived for me today. It includes the Altoona-Pittsburgh main, the line down the Mon to West Brownsville, and the various branches including Southwest, things in the area of Cresson, and the like. I noticed a bunch of places where trackage had been removed or even complete branches abandoned, and this was indicated by crossing out the trackage on the chart, and noting when. This makes the chart much more interesting than it might otherwise be. The only real problem is the original had been taped back together in a few places causing some distortion and missing info. I bought it from someone who sells copies of various track charts; I probably have the info if anyone cares. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:02:42 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] need help with a ticket Hi all... I'll make this short...Since you all are some of the few who might know or have one. Does anyone out there have a old Penn Central passenger ticket or a picture of one? Trains magazine is going to publish a short article i wrote and they would like to have picture of a PC ticket for the staff artist to go by. The closest i have is a early Amtrak ticket during the last years of PC. Perhaps someone has a old commuter ticket. Any help will greatly appreciated. Til Later Hank Mummert Jr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: Re: [PRR] something interesting about track charts Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 Derrick, I sent Jerry Britton some track charts to post on his site. One of them was the one you had mentioned. I am not sure if he has that one posted to his site yet or not. Randy Williamson ----- Original Message ----- From: Derrick J Brashear To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: [PRR] something interesting about track charts > Photocopy of a 1951 PRR Pittsburgh Division track chart arrived for me > today. It includes the Altoona-Pittsburgh main, the line down the Mon to > West Brownsville, and the various branches including Southwest, things in > the area of Cresson, and the like. > > I noticed a bunch of places where trackage had been removed or even > complete branches abandoned, and this was indicated by crossing out the > trackage on the chart, and noting when. This makes the chart much more > interesting than it might otherwise be. > > The only real problem is the original had been taped back together in a > few places causing some distortion and missing info. > > I bought it from someone who sells copies of various track charts; I > probably have the info if anyone cares. > > -D > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars List, I seem to be short of info on the B60A Class headend cars. This car is similar to the B60 Baggage Car but had end doors applied on one end at some point in time. The info I need to know is Car Numbers in the series and how many were in use. And as an added luxury, when did they disappear from service? TIA!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Hmmm i found something(tickets) Hello again all... A little while ago i asked if anyone had a Penn Central ticket or where i might find one. While looking i happened upon this site and thought i'd share it with you all. It has PRR,NYC,PC and others tickets....cut off the /pcrr.htm part of it and it shows others. http://www.quuxuum.org/~joekor/ticketbooks/pcrr.htm Ya never know what you can find on the internet these days. Amazing... Til Later Hank Mummert Jr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:30:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE:PRR R50b Lettering diagram The March-April Issue of the 1975 PC Railroader Volume 3- No.2 on page 40 has the official PRR Passenger Cars Arrangement of Lettering for Class R50B. Dated 7/3/1928 and revised specifications for interior and exterior painting 4/20/31. This data appears to be comprehensive and accurate from original PRR documents. Cheers Brad C. Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE:PRR R50B data The PC Railroader magazine Volume 3-No. 5 September- October 1975 page 31 lists the following data about the PRR class R-50b express cars. The class R50b was the standard express reefer of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The class R-50 and the R-50A were experimental cars and only one of each was built. 550 R-50bs were built, number series 2551-31000 inclusive. All were ordered in 1928 and delivered by 1929 by 4 separate builders: 200-ACF, 200-Pressed Steel Car Co., 100-Pullman Car and Mfr. Co., 50-General American. Class R-50B was designed by the PRR and all were identical, regardless of which company built them. Cheers Brad C. Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: [PRR] Conrail Grade Crossing incident Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:16:34 -0400 http://thortrains.hypermart.net/conrail1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:23:16 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would have = had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to the = rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches that = were parallel to each side of the tender? Also would this tender have = had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe. I've = seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all. The = book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. = I'm not sure but it may have a drawing of the top of this tender. If = someone who has the book could look for me I'd be much appreciative. This info is for my current K4 project.=20 Thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used = behind the=20 K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located = parallell to=20 the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches = that=20 were parallel to each side of the tender?  Also would this tender = have had=20 a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe.  I've = seen=20 this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all.  The = book, "The=20 Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a.  I'm not = sure but=20 it may have a drawing of the top of this tender.  If someone who = has the=20 book could look for me I'd be much appreciative.
 
This info is for my current K4 project. =
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:02:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE:PRR R50B data In a message dated 5/18/00 10:11:01 PM Central Daylight Time, BowerPRR@aol.com writes: << Class R-50B was designed by the PRR and all were identical, regardless of which company built them >> There was a later modification to ladders and roofhatches (removal in some cases?). Anyone know the dates, details, and numbers of cars so modified? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Erie builts in Zanesville and Cambridge Ohio From: Fred G Rea Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:07:26 EDT My son, Garrett, and I share a fairly extensive collection or old Rails Northeast magazines. In one of them there are photographs of some 6 axle Erie buils in S.E. Ohio. More specifically the captions read: 9478 sits in Zanesville Ohio in the late 50's where it saw service in local and mine runs........ and A pair of Erie builts in Cambridge Ohio in this 3/30/52 shot ...... Does anyone have more specific info on these units, and more specifically where they were used? I have not seen the photos as Garrett has them in Nashville, but I am interested in the operations on both the Zanesville Branch and the Cleveland and Marietta. Fred Rea Columbus OH ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:10:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender In a message dated 5/18/00 10:26:12 PM Central Daylight Time, kkollar@cplx.net writes: << The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. >> Unfortunately, the only top drawing is of a 130P75. FWIW, on that tender one long rectangular hatch is parallel to the back of the tender. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:23:00 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kris, I've just checked my copy of THE MANY FACES..., and unfortunatley it = dosen't have a drawing of a 110P75a. It does, however have a drawing of = a 130P75 tender that shows a single cross-wise hatch and no cover over = the scoop pipe. There are no shots looking down on one of these tenders = in the book as well. I would venture a guess that the 110P75a looked a = lot like the 130P75 tender, but I can't say for sure. I think that the = larger tenders had the two hatches (in order to facilitate lining up the = water crane) while the smaller tanks had a single hatch. Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Kris Kollar To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: [PRR] 110P75a Tender =20 =20 Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would = have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to = the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches = that were parallel to each side of the tender? Also would this tender = have had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe. = I've seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all. = The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. = I'm not sure but it may have a drawing of the top of this tender. If = someone who has the book could look for me I'd be much appreciative. =20 This info is for my current K4 project.=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Kris ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris,
 
I've just checked my copy of THE MANY FACES..., and=20 unfortunatley it dosen't have a drawing of a 110P75a. It does, however = have a=20 drawing of a 130P75 tender that shows a single cross-wise hatch and no = cover=20 over the scoop pipe. There are no shots looking down on one of these = tenders in=20 the book as well. I would venture a guess that the 110P75a looked a lot = like the=20 130P75 tender, but I can't say for sure. I think that the larger tenders = had the=20 two hatches (in order to facilitate lining up the water crane) while the = smaller=20 tanks had a single hatch.
 
Bill Daniels
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Kris Kollar <kkollar@cplx.net>
To: = prr-talk@dsop.com <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:24 PM
Subject: [PRR] 110P75a=20 Tender

Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender = used behind=20 the K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch = located=20 parallell to the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large = rectangular=20 hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender?  Also = would this=20 tender have had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water = scoop=20 pipe.  I've seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops = but not=20 all.  The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale = drawings of the 110P75a.  I'm not sure but it may have a = drawing of the=20 top of this tender.  If someone who has the book could look for = me I'd=20 be much appreciative.
 
This info is for my current K4 project. =
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:48:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kris--I am also unable to come up with a photo or drawing of the top of = a 110P75a. However, from what I have observed from other tender = classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a single hatch = parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else in the = middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna. For your K4 = project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if you are including a trainphone antenna; stick with the single = hatch if not. I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe = on any 110 series or larger tender. By the way, where did you get the 110P75a? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris--I am also unable to come up with = a photo or=20 drawing of the top of a 110P75a.  However, from what I have = observed from=20 other tender classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a = single=20 hatch parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else = in the=20 middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna.  For = your K4=20 project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if=20 you are including a trainphone antenna;  stick with the single = hatch if=20 not.  I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe on = any 110=20 series or larger tender.
 
By the way, where did you get the=20 110P75a?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:45:55 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: [PRR] 1361 Info List: Does anyone have an idea of when K-4s #1361 got the front end "beauty treatment?" Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:51:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:08:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally In a message dated 5/19/00 7:57:26 AM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. >> And the original drive was the best on the market. Mine still is one of the best running locos I have seen. But, hey, Barry, how can any Pennsy guy say anything is RTR? :-). Mounting antennas on any RS is a bear. I admit I haven't undertaken replacing the headlightss yet although I did replace the airhorn. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:32:34 -0700 Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:51 AM To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:46:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally On Fri, 19 May 2000 egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil wrote: > Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another > reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately > scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of > the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the > Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic > body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came > out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all > grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't > even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have > this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate > the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. > Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Other people kind of clued me in, but the MDC has the most accurate shell, if what you want is that phase. If you want e.g. phase 3, it's Stewart or nothing. I own some of each (Atlas, MDC, and phase 3 Stewart), and I expect eventually to rework and be running all of them. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:52:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Modeling MoW From: Jerry Britton Those of you who were on hand Thursday night at the recent convention know that Al Buchan gave a top-notch slide presentation on MoW. As part of his presentation, he provided a handout which listed the consists of several wreck trains. It went on to indicate which models best depict the prototypes. This was a "must have" handout!!! Al has given me permission to post it to "Keystone Crossings". It's a PDF file, and you'll find it in the Modeling section. UNRELATED: The steam database data entry (road numbers and classes only) is over 51% done!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:05:52 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally Elden and all, The Atals is in my opinion a good running locomotive, but the body shell is TRASH. The cab is too short, the window on the firemans side is WRONG, the hood is too short, the louvers are too short, the truck details are toy train like, the handrails are so 70's-ish, should I continue.... IMHO it is a good running toy. The Stewart is missing the slots on the top of the hood are missing (okay for L&N but, hey... come on),teh firemans side window is WRONG, the truck wheel base is too short, the detail on the trucks is 70's-ish, the power train is okay, but it mneds a 5-wire trick done to improve it, need I say more. THe MDC excells in all catagories except the original power frame which needs work, but if you read my article I would defy you to tell the difference between the Atlas once "rebiuilt", the new underframe is like the Life Like. The details are correct, the dimensions are correct, the handrails lend themselves to the PRR battery box modifactions, this is what the others should be like. THe Hobbytown is good, but we all know the problems, do I need to list them... I will if requested. Greg Martin << Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:51 AM To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:01:01 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally/RS3 Elden, Greg & guys, Now I'm really glad this RS3 subject came up. When I read Elden's comments this morning, they struck a familar chord. I 'knew' there was something I didn't like about the Atlas model...it didn't 'look' right. Folks thought I was nuts when I sold my two used ones at a flea market and spent the proceeds on three new MDC versions, a pretty decent 1956 Official Guide, five pair of CV Bettendorfs still in the plastic boxes and a couple of coal loads, all for the same money. Sometimes ya get lucky. (I've since seen the buyer of the two Atlas engines trying to resell them...maybe he compared them to some prototype photos?) Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:19:47 -0400 Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers From: Jerry Britton Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in the order of your preference: Any GL GL GLa GLc GLca other* (specify) * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available to cover all bases!!! Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:04:55 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your trainphone theory sounds plausible. Onthe cover of the PRRT&HS = published book, Pennsy in the Steel City, there is a shot looking down = over the tops of some G5 locos & their tenders. Off to one corner is a = K4 which is reported to have a 110P75a behind it. It does have the dual = hatches with a train phone running smack down the middle. I'm just not = sure if this is an anomoly or standard practice. I think I'll = "interpret" it as standard practice and build mine with the two large = hatches. Couple those with the train phone and it should result in one = awesome looking tender. For the tender I started with the one offered by Bachman several years = back. I've already corrected the steps by carefully removing them with = an X-acto blade, and lowering them, repositioned the tender deck, then = scratch built the missing fourth step. I shaved off the slope sheet = rivets and am now painstakingly replacing them as close to prototypical = as I can get. It sounds harder than it actually is. Its just time = consuming. I'll have to remove the cast on water hatch but that won't = be a problem. Its moving along much slower than I'd like since I'm = wasting too much time playing an awesome WWII fighter game on the PC = every night. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Kris--I am also unable to come up with a photo or drawing of the top = of a 110P75a. However, from what I have observed from other tender = classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a single hatch = parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else in the = middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna. For your K4 = project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if you are including a trainphone antenna; stick with the single = hatch if not. I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe = on any 110 series or larger tender. By the way, where did you get the 110P75a? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your trainphone theory sounds plausible.  = Onthe cover=20 of the PRRT&HS published book, Pennsy in the Steel City, there is a = shot=20 looking down over the tops of some G5 locos & their tenders.  = Off to=20 one corner is a K4 which is reported to have a 110P75a behind it.  = It does=20 have the dual hatches with a train phone running smack down the = middle. =20 I'm just not sure if this is an anomoly or standard practice.  I = think I'll=20 "interpret" it as standard practice and build mine with the two large=20 hatches.  Couple those with the train phone and it should result in = one=20 awesome looking tender.
 
For the tender I started with the one offered by = Bachman=20 several years back.  I've already corrected the steps by carefully = removing=20 them with an X-acto blade, and lowering them, repositioned the tender = deck, then=20 scratch built the missing fourth step.  I shaved off the slope = sheet=20 rivets and am now painstakingly replacing them as close to prototypical = as I can=20 get.  It sounds harder than it actually is.  Its just time=20 consuming.  I'll have to remove the cast on water hatch but that = won't be a=20 problem.  Its moving along much slower than I'd like since I'm = wasting too=20 much time playing an awesome WWII fighter game on the PC every=20 night.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve = Hoxie=20
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 = 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a = Tender

Kris--I am also unable to come up = with a photo or=20 drawing of the top of a 110P75a.  However, from what I have = observed from=20 other tender classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a = single=20 hatch parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something = else in the=20 middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna.  For = your K4=20 project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if=20 you are including a trainphone antenna;  stick with the single = hatch if=20 not.  I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe on = any 110=20 series or larger tender.
 
By the way, where did you get the=20 110P75a?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola=20 FL
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:15:31 -0500 Jerry Britton wrote: > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! This is great news! Everyone modeling 40's to 50's (and later!) can use these, but especially PRR folks. This would be much easier with Teichmoeller's book....where is that thing? For those that haven't looked it up yet: GL--Original version later modified to GLc, then GLca. In 1955 there were about 2600 GLca left. Identified by fishbelly sides. GLa--Completely different design than GL; no fishbelly sides. Similar in appearance to USRA two bay hopper (PRR class GLd), but dimensions are significantly different, has characteristic PRR protruding end sills. Over 30,000 built for PRR, another 4,000 for coal companies such as Berwind and Westmoreland. In 1955 over 25,000 (!) remained in service. Westerfield makes all of these; very nice but expensive. For my purposes a couple of his GLca will suffice, but I need at least a dozen of the GLa. Go Bowser! Jerry, mark me down for the GLa. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: FW: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 04:05:50 -0400 I agree with Steve - the GLa fills a noticeable hole not only for a Pennsy layout, but for just about anyone who models the Northeast rail scene c. 1940s-1950s. I'd build a bunch in conjunction with H21's in order to drown the Athearn ribbed side H31 twins in a sea of the right cars (as they should be). As a bonus, they could also be marketed in Berwind and other coal company schemes as well. Two recommendations: 1. Don't confuse Class GLa with the Class GL/GLc/GLca family cars. I wouldn't mind seeing the GL/GLc/GLca cars in plastic as well, because even though they aren't around in as great numbers as Class GLa, they stick out like a sore thumb in a train because of their pressed steel fishbelly sidesill, and were fairly common in pictures of the transition era. As for the numbers, 1955 is a fairly late date during the steam-to-diesel transition - if you model c.1950, you will need more of both classes (1949 - GLca 8192 cars; GLa 26198 cars). Going off subject a bit, 1950 is a watershed date for freight cars - at this point, many older cars that survived the war are still around (36 ft DS boxcars are an excellent example), but would soon be replaced the great wave of post-war cars being built by Pullman-Standard, AC&F, et. al. 2. Since the life of the car was so long, the cars that survived into the fifties were significantly different from the cars as originally built (the original design had odd angled grabs on the ends), so basing the details on the cars as the appeared in the fifties would appeal to the widest audience. Jerry, cast my vote for the GLa, but if I can have two, sign me up for the GLca also! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:18:52 +0100 Jerry, Here's my choice. 1) Definitely number one is the GLca (1940s....on) 2) GLc (1923 .....on 'til modified to GLca) 3) GLa (but looks a lot like other hoppers whereas the GLca is just that bit different and would be a visual plus factor in a train of hoppers) First choice has got to be the fish-belly hopper and the GLca is the version running in the 'period' when a lot of us model. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Sent: 20 May 2000 01:19 Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:21:13 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers In order of preference GLa GLca GLc GL Westerfield now has the GLa with a one piece body. John Ryan Jerry Britton wrote: > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Jerry, Lee I think he GLca is the car most needed at this point. Not many Fish Belly side models out there at all. Ulrich (generic) and Westerfield (Pennsy styles) are the only ones I can think of. Lots of straight side sills available, ie: Athearn, Atlas, TM, and numerous others. Although not any are of PRR prototypes, another straight sill (even if PRR) will only blend in with the glutten of 2 bays. I think the Fish Belly GLca's will be quite eye catchers!......Gary PS: Still wouldn't mind seeing that all impotant N8 Cabin from Bowser first or even someday too!!! Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:37:54 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Jerry, list, I'd cast my vote for the GLa hopper. Doug J ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brooks" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:31:36 -0400 This is great news. Thanks, Lee. I need a fleet of GLa hoppers. GLca would be a distant second choice. Visually, the GLc and GLca may be more distinctive, but the H21 and GLa defined the Pennsy hopper fleet into the transition era. I own Westerfield GLa and GLca kits, but don't have the time or money to spend on building the quantity my coal branch needs. Any chance John Teichmoller may be consulted on this project? Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:45:06 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars Gary, list, My PRR passenger equipment roster from 1 October 1954 lists the following B60a baggage express cars: 5669-71, 5972-79, 6151, 6157-8, 6261-3, 7312, 7315, 7318-9, 7322, 7329, 7332, 7339, 7376, 7393, 7422-4, 7723, 7726-7, 7729, 7731, 7733-5. Good hunting on the rest of the information; I hope the above at least gets you started. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I seem to be short of info on the B60A Class headend cars. This car > is similar to the B60 Baggage Car but had end doors applied on one end > at some point in time. The info I need to know is Car Numbers in the > series and how many were in use. And as an added luxury, when did they > disappear from service? TIA!....Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:51:06 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1361 Info Frank, list, My best guess is circa 1948. I believe she went through a major shopping that year (ironically, a year when over 100 K4s engines left the roster). Photos of her in the early 40s show her running with a 110P75a (I have a picture of her in 1941, newly stoker fired with a 110P75a); after she received the modernized front end, it seems that she ran with a 130P75 (though not necessarily the same one she has today). Some K4s engines didn't receive the drop coupler pilots until 1950; the revised headlight and generator locations apparently started in 1945 when K4s 3847 received poppet valves and the revised front end. The 1361 did receive a major shopping sometime between 1945 and 1950; 1948 is, once again, my best guess. I will cheerfully accept corrections to my assumptions above! Doug Park Varieties wrote: > List: > > Does anyone have an idea of when K-4s #1361 got the front end > "beauty treatment?" Thanks. > > Frank Brua > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:01:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender --------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris, list, The last time I visited the RR Museum of PA, K4s 3750 had been moved inside. I went up on the walkway and looked down. Her 110P75a (bear with me, as I'm relying on memory and am now 1500 miles away) has a single crosswise water hatch. The cover/hatch for the water scoop pipe would not be appropriate for any 110P70/75/75a tender (it is perfect for the 70P70 on E6s 460 and probably most of the 70P70 subclasses as well). I don't recall any overhead pictures or plans of a 110P75a, but I will look in my collection tonight or tomorrow and see what I can find. Kris Kollar wrote: > Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would > have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to > the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular > hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender? --------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris, list,

The last time I visited the RR Museum of PA, K4s 3750 had been moved inside.  I went up on the walkway and looked down.  Her 110P75a (bear with me, as I'm relying on memory and am now 1500 miles away) has a single crosswise water hatch.  The cover/hatch for the water scoop pipe would not be appropriate for any 110P70/75/75a tender (it is perfect for the 70P70 on E6s 460 and probably most of the 70P70 subclasses as well).

I don't recall any overhead pictures or plans of a 110P75a, but I will look in my collection tonight or tomorrow and see what I can find.
 

Kris Kollar wrote:

Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender?
--------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:03:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cast my vote for: 1. GLa 2. GLca And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be nice! Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins = lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? Take care, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cast my vote for:
1. GLa
2. GLca
 
And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be=20 nice!
 
Only question I have is what do we do with all of = those=20 Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad?
 
Take care,
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:08:44 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Lambert HO H6sb valve gear repair Hello list, While running in my H6sb (this has been an ongoing project, done a few minutes at a time), the eccentric rod on the left side separated from the reverse link. It appears to me that the rivet (?) joining the two gave up the ghost. Do any of you know if this is really a rivet? Have any of you had this happen and fixed it. While pondering possible solutions, I have so far concluded that regular Bowser rivets are too short, and that long MDC rivets are too large in diameter. I am now contemplating an 00-90 optical screw, but I will gladly take suggestions! Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:25:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey In a message dated 5/20/00 5:07:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: > Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins > lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? > The athearn twin is a good approximation of the H31, it even has the trust plate molded on the corner. But your right to be statistically correct most layouts would only need 1 or 2 H31's. Brian Carlson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:27:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Likewise, for me: GLa GLca Bob Holden ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Likewise, for me:
 
GLa
GLca
 
Bob Holden
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:53:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey In a message dated 5/20/00 5:07:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: << Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? >> Spray em black and letter them for the Erie, or VGN - or another railroad that fewer people care so passionately about Here's one tip - Don't use ALL the numbers in the Champ set for the Erie A guy in our group - who worked for the Erie is fond of walking into train rooms and saying "that's wrong" from across the room The Champ set shows a car with a 6 digit number The Erie's entire roster never required more than a 5 digit number Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:02:14 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding the PRR hoppers, same list for me...(GLa, GLca) On the N8 front, a couple of years ago I called Bowser (pricey call, = from deepest, darkest Southern Arizona to Pennsylvania, but that's = another story) I asked the nice lady on the phone if Bowser would = consider doing the N8. Her reply was that Bowser lost money on the N5\a = caboose (hey guys...Pennsy had LOTS more N5/a/b cabins than they had = N5c's. Go out and make your roster more prototypical!) and they at that = time were NOT considering producing a N8. Maybe times have changed, or = maybe the good folks at Des Plains/Centrailia Car Shops might do one. (I = got their mailing today, with the announcement of a Santa Fe Ce-1 Waycar = as well as their latest reincaration of the Storzek Soo Line Caboose...) = I would rather see Bowser do the N8, but unless things change we might = as well lobby Des Plains. Check out Des Plains on the web at = http://www.desplainshobbies.com Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey =20 =20 Cast my vote for: 1. GLa 2. GLca =20 And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be nice! =20 Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn = twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? =20 Take care, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Regarding the PRR hoppers, same list = for=20 me...(GLa, GLca)
 
On the N8 front, a couple of years ago I called = Bowser (pricey=20 call, from deepest, darkest Southern Arizona to Pennsylvania, but that's = another=20 story) I asked the nice lady on the phone if Bowser would consider doing = the N8.=20 Her reply was that Bowser lost money on the N5\a caboose (hey = guys...Pennsy had=20 LOTS more N5/a/b cabins than they had N5c's. Go out and make your roster = more=20 prototypical!) and they at that time were NOT considering producing a = N8. Maybe=20 times have changed, or maybe the good folks at Des Plains/Centrailia Car = Shops=20 might do one. (I got their mailing today, with the announcement of a = Santa Fe=20 Ce-1 Waycar as well as their latest reincaration of the Storzek Soo Line = Caboose...) I would rather see Bowser do the N8, but unless things = change we=20 might as well lobby Des Plains. Check out Des Plains on the web at http://www.desplainshobbies.com<= /A>
 
Bill Daniels
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Walt Prusick <walpru@stargate.net>
To:= =20 prr-talk@dsop.com = <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:04 PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Hopper=20 Survey

Cast my vote for:
1. GLa
2. GLca
 
And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would = be=20 nice!
 
Only question I have is what do we do with all = of those=20 Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad?
 
Take care,
Walt = Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:09:07 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops...seems that with the URL printed right in front of me I can't seem = to type correctly. Must be getting old. The correct URL for Des Plaines Hobbies is = http://www.desplaineshobbies.com Sorry... Bill Daniels ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops...seems that with the URL = printed right in=20 front of me I can't seem to type correctly. Must be getting = old.
 
The correct URL for Des Plaines Hobbies is http://www.desplaineshobbies.co= m
 
Sorry...
 
Bill Daniels
 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:21:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt Prusick wrote: Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? Walt, here's some options: 1) VGN 23000-23999; 25000-25999; 28000-28999; 29000-29999, total 3298 cars, photo in January 1986 issue of Model Railroading. 2) Pittsburgh & Shawmut 8256-8577; 9000-9248, total 393 cars, photo in January 1986 issue of Model Railroading. 3) WAB 37000-37399, 376 cars built new in 1948, Pikestuff panels. These cars are the best match for this conversion - other panel side twins were rebuilt from USRA cars and are better represented by the Tichy kit. I'd save your best PRR one, use a few more to model the above cars, and sell the rest! The other options, bashing them into USRA cars or GLa's, don't really match up dimensionally and will be OBE anyway if we can get the GLa manufactured. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt = Prusick=20 wrote:
 
Only question I have is what do we do = with all=20 of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania = Railroad?
 
 
Walt, here's = some=20 options:
 
1) VGN=20 23000-23999; 25000-25999; = 28000-28999;=20 29000-29999, total 3298 cars, = photo in=20 January 1986 issue of Model Railroading.
 
2) Pittsburgh & Shawmut = 8256-8577;=20 9000-9248, total 393 cars, photo = in=20 January 1986 issue of Model Railroading.
 
3) WAB 37000-37399, 376 cars = built new in=20 1948, Pikestuff panels.  These cars are the best match for this conversion = - other panel side twins were rebuilt from USRA = cars and=20 are better represented by the Tichy kit.
 
I'd save your best PRR = one, use=20 a few more to = model the above cars, and sell the = rest!  The=20 other options, bashing them=20 into USRA cars or = GLa's, don't really match up dimensionally and will be OBE anyway if we can get the GLa manufactured.
 
Ben Hom
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] 90F82 Tenders Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:13:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steam Modelers: An HO 90F82 tender made of resin is currently in the = works and is, in fact, well along. I have seen a photo of the first = article out of the mold. Very nice! More detail work is to be done, = but the producers are actively and enthusiasticly working. Although I = am not free to divulge who has taken on the project, many of you have = seen their quality work. This is the tender the I1 was built with and fills a gaping hole in our = ability to accurately represent our railroad. The tender could also be = used behind the K4 (appropriate if modeling in the 30's), a few H9's (in = the 50's), and many H10's (50's also). I don't know if I can stand it: GLa (or GLca) hoppers coming, serious = R50b rumors, and now these tenders! And I still have X29's to build! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steam Modelers:  An HO 90F82 = tender made of=20 resin is currently in the works and is, in fact, well along.  I = have seen a=20 photo of the first article out of the mold.  Very nice!  More = detail=20 work is to be done, but the producers are actively and enthusiasticly=20 working.  Although I am not free to divulge who has taken on the = project,=20 many of you have seen their quality work.
 
This is the tender the I1 was built = with and fills=20 a gaping hole in our ability to accurately represent our railroad.  = The=20 tender could also be used behind the K4 (appropriate if modeling in the = 30's), a=20 few H9's (in the 50's), and many H10's (50's also).
 
I don't know if I can stand it:  = GLa (or GLca)=20 hoppers coming, serious R50b rumors, and now these tenders!  And I = still=20 have X29's to build!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MIKADO1361@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:43:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 30TH Street Station The North Philly stop was the stop in Philadelphia for the westbound Broadway Limited of Amtrak in 1979. I rode to Chicago many times during 1979-1980 on business trips in roomette accomodations. When the train would pull in ti N Philly, you were asked to wait a a loading location that corresponded to the sleeping car you were to ride in. Getting to N Philly required using the local commuter trin. If you showed your Amtrak ticket, you rode free from 30th Street to N Philly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Athearn twins (Pennsy Hopper Survey) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:51:51 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Your second option as to what to do with the 'excess' hoppers, that is = repaint and decal for the Pittsburgh & Shawmut, may be just the ticket = for those of us modeling western Pennsylvania. I recall that the P & S = interchanged with the Pennsy at Freeport, PA. (20 or so miles north of = the steel city, along the Allegheny River) then ran northward to = Brockway. Probably what I will do as I phase in the GLa/GLac, if and = when they come in. Gee, the hoppers are only a rumor and already I am = making plans. Could we be a bit anxious? Naw. Take care, Walt Prusick =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ben,
Your second option as to what to do with the = 'excess' hoppers,=20 that is repaint and decal for the Pittsburgh & Shawmut, may be just = the=20 ticket for those of us modeling western Pennsylvania. I recall = that the P=20 & S interchanged with the Pennsy at Freeport, PA. (20 or so miles = north of=20 the steel city, along the Allegheny River) then ran northward to = Brockway.=20 Probably what I will do as I phase in the GLa/GLac, if and when they = come in.=20 Gee, the hoppers are only a rumor and already I am making plans. Could = we be a=20 bit anxious? Naw.
 
Take care,
Walt Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:59:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] 90F82 tender Good morning Guys - How many times have you read one of the expert modelers on this list say I have just seen the first shot of something. Well, this morning you are all going to have that opportunity. We will be manufacturing the 90F82 tender. It will be a one piece seamless shell. It will be available with one and three man doghouses. One of the questions we have answered was can the straight up and down coalboard be cast as thin as brass and still be practical. The answer is yes. In fact ours is thinner. Now I'd like to stand here and take all the bows for what I believe is going to be a really great model however in all honesty I can't. The praise for this model has to go to the really fine people on this list. Those of you who have sent drawings, pictures, part numbers and have gone all out in helping with research and encouragement and genuine good wishes. So stand up guys and take a bow. And then go out to our website (web specials page) and take a look at the first shot, bearing in mind that it has not been cleaned up. It still contains some flashing and that there is still a lot of work to do. You will see the thinness of the coal bunker sidewalls at the top. You will see the detail on the coal bunker doors and the diamond plate in front of them. If you look carefully you will see the rivet detail. Sorry the pictures are so dark but they are just scanner images and we used a black resin in order to get a true picture of how it would really look. As usual corrective criticism or suggestions are appreciated. Dayna www.trainstuffllc.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Dayna, Glad to see your project moving right along. It appears from the scans that this tender will meet or fill a lot of needs. Have you made progress on the dog houses and if so can you clue us in on the quality of these too? I forget what you mentioned about the underframe and trucks. Can you share your ideas here with the list? Was it to share Bowser parts? One suggestion also. When you do make the production tenders, please use the black resin as well. That way if any chipping of paint occurs, the black resin color will help hide the nicks and chips if any do happen. Again, nice work! When can we see a 1940's Streamlined K4 Loco Boiler Shell and Tender Shell??? Hmmmmm???..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:33:48 -0700 Gary and all Chipping paint is usually not a problem with non-metalic models...and working with black plastic parts is a pain, especially for those of us with older eyeballs. And while the 1940 era streamlined K4s shell would be nice, I doubt that enough would be sold to justify the cost of production. (I would love to be proved wrong) Me, I would love to see a next-generation H9s and/or E6s (maybe both, since there are a lot of common parts) would be the ticket. Hmmm...I wonder what would it take.... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: DWa9975062@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, May 21, 2000 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Dayna, Glad to see your project moving right along. It appears from the scans that this tender will meet or fill a lot of needs. Have you made progress on the dog houses and if so can you clue us in on the quality of these too? I forget what you mentioned about the underframe and trucks. Can you share your ideas here with the list? Was it to share Bowser parts? One suggestion also. When you do make the production tenders, please use the black resin as well. That way if any chipping of paint occurs, the black resin color will help hide the nicks and chips if any do happen. Again, nice work! When can we see a 1940's Streamlined K4 Loco Boiler Shell and Tender Shell??? Hmmmmm???..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:18:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 Tenders In a message dated 5/21/00 12:24:12 AM Central Daylight Time, steveh@dotstar.net writes: << An HO 90F82 tender made of resin is currently in the works and is, in fact, well along. I >> Now that is good news. I finally picked up a United I1 with that tender at a bargain, but now I can finish detailing my Cary-boilered, helix-humper-powered Bowser version. I always feel more comfortable bashing around Bowser's to get DCC decoders in, etc. Only problem is I am trying how to minimize the damage to the Cary shell to clear the helix humper--it was designed for the Bowser shell and I hate to destroy the backhead to get it in. Bob zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] HO scale Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:39:27 -0700 Gee with all this Pennsy stuff available in HO scale it almost makes one consider changing scales. Consider what has come out in the last 3-5 years. Plastic H21 hoppers H21 with clam shells X31 boxcars in multiple versions G24 gons N5 N5c to name just a few Also you have so many resin kits to choose from and volumes of brass to fill in the gaps. I watch brass HO pennsy stuff sell for a fraction of what it goes for in O-scale. Consider what a fleet of H21a hoppers cost you at $300.00 each in O scale. Kohs GG-I sold for $3,000.00. The only other option is a MTH diecast at $500.00 and I am not sure it was done in two rail, a House of Duddy at about $1200.00. or the like. Resin kits in O-scale like the X29 or G24 done by Des Plaines hobbies went for $60.00 ++ dollars. And still their are major gaps in what is available to O scalers.It makes one laugh when you guys here about something else comming out and ask for something more! If you are like me you have more projects sitting on the shelf waiting to be built or painted that if you worked at them constantly, you won't get them done before what you buy next will fill the shelf. Not to mention the layout we all intend to get finished some day. Now that I think about it. I'll stay in O scale the production rate of new stuff is closer to the production rate at my backshop! --Greg Stone Renovo Yard PRR amatuer historian and O scale nut. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Hoppers Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:19:40 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC31E.D6739F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List members, The thought just occurred to me, I have a dozen or so sets of Cambria & = Indiana hopper decals sitting in my "decal bin". Project I started a = few years back and never finished (sound familiar?) Anyway, does anyone = have 'good' pics of C & I twin hoppers circa 1950-54 which I could use = to redetail/reletter a portion of my Athearn hopper fleet? Thanks in advance, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC31E.D6739F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List members,
The thought just occurred to me, I have a dozen or = so sets of=20 Cambria & Indiana hopper decals sitting in my "decal bin".  = Project I=20 started a few years back and never finished (sound familiar?) Anyway, = does=20 anyone have 'good' pics of C & I twin hoppers circa 1950-54 which I = could=20 use to redetail/reletter a portion of my Athearn hopper = fleet?
Thanks in advance,
Walt Prusick
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