From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 01:04:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Guys, Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake until the issue is on the shelves. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 06:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 1:04 AM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com at (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > Please let's not spread any rumors. They are alive and doing well, they did > just adjust the upper management's pecking order but it should be a seamless > transition. I will have a full report direct from Pat Lawless in my > Scuttlebutt Column in the May issue of Mainline Modeler. Pat and the company > are on the right track ... don't fear the FM's are coming, but to get to the > heart of the line up and what the future holds read my column. Pat I know > you are out there, I will hold off any further announcements for his sake > until the issue is on the shelves. > Wasn't my intention to spread any rumors. Anything I reported was first hand information I had previously received from Pat himself. I expressed my doubts about their eventually pulling through their problems, but there were no rumors. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:28:03 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings Does that mean my A-B-A Erie Builts are "collectors items"? :-( Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 4/30/00 3:00 PM, CENTGA@aol.com at (CENTGA@aol.com) wrote: > > > What has happened to MC's web site? They haven't gone to Penn Central land > > have they? Todd Horton > > > I reported on my "Merchandise Service" "Merchandise Announce" list about 6-8 > weeks ago of their status... > > They aren't out of business, per one of their principals, but they are > undergoing a "reorganization". I don't want to speculate too much, but they > pretty much were only two people. I'm guessing one wanted out. Perhaps the > other doesn't have the resources. I don't know. > > Their web site going down was supposedly just a "coincidence", that the > company hosting it was no longer going to do so. I offered a deal for > hosting via my server, but never received a response. > > My guess is that they are done for. I hope not, but I fear that will be the > case. > > Fortunately, I filled all my backorders for BP20 Sharks and the Erie-builts > and kept enough for myself. Other than that, I am sold out. I doubt we'll > ever see the FM H16-44. I have several on Advance Reservation for customers. > > Look at the bright side, at least we got two real good products from them > that we did not otherwise have!!! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Anderson Charles L CRPH Subject: RE: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 10:07:16 -0400 SOMEHOW THE TUCKERTON RR IS LINKED TO THE ASSETS OF THE P&R AND READING COMPANY, WHICH WERE 'BLENDED' INTO PRSL... CHAS -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:47 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad Company". The two times this name appears: page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton Railroad". page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by Tuckerton RR". The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR (or at least, do not mention it in the index). Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic in 1915. The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] controls, through ownership of a majority or all of the capital stock, the following named companies, whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, as follows:..." I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the CT1000. Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, which seems to have been out on the end of the Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the PRR, listed? Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the Tuckerton RR, not listed? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:23:37 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] A PRR puzzle (from 1923) Don't know any of the answers to your questions. However, I do have some Tuckerton stuff at home and will check to see what it says. Tom Mahon robert netzlof wrote: > The 1923 CT1000 mentions "The Tuckerton Railroad > Company". The two times this name appears: > > page 69: At Whitings, NJ (location WI) 41.9 miles from > Camden Passenger Station lists "junction Tuckerton > Railroad". > > page 70: At Manahawken, NJ (location 1570) lists 12.1 > miles of track extending to Beach Haven, NJ. It lists > this as "Philadelphia and Beach Haven RR, operated by > Tuckerton RR". > > The CT1000 says nothing else about the Tuckerton RR, > nor anything else connecting Whitings to Manahawken. > > Burgess and Kennedy say nothing about the Tuckerton RR > (or at least, do not mention it in the index). > Concerning the Phila. and Beach Haven, they note that > it was consolidated into the Philadelphia and Atlantic > in 1915. > > The ICC Valuation Report lists the Philadelphia and > Beach Haven (and the Barnegat RR) as " operated by The > Tuckerton RR, as agent". It says this in Appendix 2, > pp 278-279, in a report which says; "It [PRR] > controls, through ownership of a majority or all of > the capital stock, the following named companies, > whose properties were operated on December 21, 1917, > as follows:..." > > I take it from this that the Tuckerton RR was > controlled by PRR in 1923. I'm puzzled as to why it's > line from Whitings to Manahawken is not listed in the > CT1000. > > Further, why is the Philadelphia and Beach Haven, > which seems to have been out on the end of the > Tuckerton RR, otherwise isolated from the rest of the > PRR, listed? > Why is the Barnegat RR, the other RR operated by the > Tuckerton RR, not listed? > > ===== > Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:24:10 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine = article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy = BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also = featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, = everyone! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, it just couldn't be better...the = convention...and another=20 fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy=20 BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 = in the=20 May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured = along=20 with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob=20 Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB381.4CA99B00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:39:11 -0700 Agreed! Also, if the esteemed members of PRR-talk have any nice modeling projects they've been holding out on, let's see them! We've still not seen any articles on PRR Baldwin switchers, RT-624's, Lima Transfers, FM H-16-44s, H-20-44s, or Trainmasters, or lots of other subjects! I would love to see this stuff finally covered. Elden -----Original Message----- From: rholden [mailto:rholden@superpa.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 12:24 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, rholden wrote: > Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine > article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy > BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco version, right? It's the same model. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 3:50 PM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: >> Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine >> article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy >> BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 > > You realize the Model Power and E-R version are both really the Roco > version, right? It's the same model. > Yes, No, Maybe. Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks On Mon, 1 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > Actually, it was created from the same mold used for the Model Power Shark > of many years ago. However, they did make a few subtle improvements where > the mold had worn (I have both on hand to compare). Only if what you have is "late" Model Power; I have an old Model Power unit around somewhere, and I can find no real changes in the tooling, only that they did clean it up concurrent with E-R taking it over. > However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. E-R did a > fantastic job on the paint...no comparison to the original! I'm with you there. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:37:54 EDT Subject: [PRR] BARGAIN PRR BOOKS Folks, A hobby shop here in the Twin Cities has lost it's lease due to airport expansion and is offering close-out prices. As of today everything is 40% off list price and I noticed a number of Pennsy items still on the shelf an hour ago. included were: -History of the Northern Central -Triumph II -Pennsy Electric Pictorial (or something like that...that recent book anyway) -Trackside Maryland There were some other titles as well, but I can't recall their titles. If you have any interest, their phone number is 612-869-4179. Regards, Barry Peltier ps-they also have a number of Hobbytown drives laying around,bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. I temporarily replaced the motor, which was imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better than MP? Has anyone done a good "B" unit? What chassis options do I have for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! Elden -----Original Message----- From: mittner@webtv.net [mailto:mittner@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 2:23 PM To: shadow@dementia.org; jerry@pennsyrr.com; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Jerry, Derrick, But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as well......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:51:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks From: Jerry Britton On 5/1/00 6:04 PM, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil at (egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil) wrote: > Hi folks, Maybe someone can enlighten me/us on the subject of the MP/ER > Sharks. I have one completed Shark that was probably one of the really OLD > Roco-powered (?) non-RP25-wheeled babiies, and I can safely say that the > drive is HORRRRRIBIBBLE. Agreed. The new E-R units have totally new drives. Hence the $99.95 SRP! > I temporarily replaced the motor, which was > imbalanced, with the idea that it might improve. Guess again. I then > worked over the trucks/drive shaft assemblies, with the conclusion that they > also were bad. They wouldn't cross a Code 83 switch on top of other > problems (the flanges were tooo deep). I have shelved this guy until I get > some other projects done, with the idea that, as much as I desire having > them on the layout, I would wait, and completely replace the drive someday. > Are the newer MP ones better? How do you tell them apart? Apparently I was > wrong about them if some are having luck with them. Are the ER ones better > than MP? Absolutely. New drives, better paint, etc. > Has anyone done a good "B" unit? As announced on the Merchandise Service "Merchandise Announce" list several weeks ago -- perhaps you should join -- E-R Models will be doing B units. However, they are at least a year off. The good news is that they will have N scale A Sharks out next August (2001). > What chassis options do I have > for #9707? Wheelbase OK? Did you add the ventilation panels? Is anyone > bothered by the narrowness of the nose? What kind of details, aside from > access ladder/horn/Trainphone does everyone add? HELP! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:59:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 4:13:54 PM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << However, the HUGE difference is the quality of the paint job. >> Although the original motors might have been a tad better, the new E- R imports are DCC-ready, which is a help. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:14:48 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Gary: I agree with your thoughts on the running quality of the Roco sharks. I have a pair, (the old ones) that run smoother, (and quieter I may add) then my "big bucks" Overlands. The Overlands do look better, but looks aren't everything. At least that's what I always used to tell the girls! Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > Jerry, Derrick, > > But how do they run? Is there any improvement over the Model Power > Sharks.? I have an A-B-A Model Power lash up with the usual added PRR > details. One thing that I am impressed with the Model Power Sharks is > the operation of them. These can be run at a very very slow coal drag > speed. Runs just about if not the same as some Katos I own. It is also > hard to stall those huge can motors that came with them. Very Quiet as > well......Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 19:30:35 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks Bob & guys, Indeed a great shark article. Perhaps I shouldn't say it out loud, but I really like my old Roco sharks. i've got a powered AB set that shame most brass...smooth and quiet as you could ask. I even repowered an old Hallmark set of (dare I say it?) Jersey Central babyface Baldwins with the Roco drives and have never regretted it. I'm always looking for those units are good prices. If the new ones are improved, they must be very good indeed. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:45:12 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to = our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the E-R=20 Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much = better on=20 the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose=20 the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R = versions,=20 but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for = you=20 comments! Bob Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB3AE.25D41280-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks In a message dated 5/1/00 1:27:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << Boy, it just couldn't be better...the convention...and another fine article in the June MR. Page 84...lists the reworking of a Pennsy BF15...from a Model Power Shark (I like the E-R version). Boy. The E-7 in the May issue and now this! It's great to see Pennsy Diesels also featured along with the H-9's and I-1s and the M-1a's too! Regards, everyone! Bob Holden. >> Bob, Stay tuned, I have two PRR diesel articles in the works as we speak. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:21 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group: One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint. I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint. One thing bothered me. The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes. God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker. Larry rholden wrote: > Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R > Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much > better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I > guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive > anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what > Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi group:

One more comment on the ER sharks regarding the paint.  I saw these at Christmas City Hobbies in Bethlehem and was very impressed with the five stripe paint.  One thing bothered me.  The circle keystone was centered on the five stripes and should be slightly off center towards the top of the stripes.  God,..... I cant believe I'm becoming such a nit picker.  <G>

Larry

rholden wrote:

  Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden.
  --------------CD47B229DD59C659214AB129-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:09:48 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Excellent Shark article!!! Kris, list, Fantastic job on the BF15! The engine looks gorgeous, and your detailing was (to an admitted steam modeller) exhaustive. By any chance, do you (or any listmembers) know if any Baldwin Sharks ever graced the Camden and Amboy or New York and Long Branch? I remember seeing shots of the engines in New Jersey, but always under catenary; so far I've only seen shots of the BP20 engines on the C&A and NYLB. The freight sharks were probably best off where there were hills and tonnage, which probably explains why I haven't seen shots of them in East Jersey. Thanks again for a motivating article! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:27:15 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. From: Fred G Rea Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. In "the good old days" I used to buy them and pop out the coils on Central Valley trucks on my cabins. What does one do now ? Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:30:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the = BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the = older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same = but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had = poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom = corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate = fuel tank. =20 The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article is the rear diaphram. = Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used = the diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for = EMD F7s, etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the = convention look for them because I expect to display them side by side. = You'll see the tremendous difference. =20 Please offer constructive criticism. I know of two other items which I = missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above = the front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the = cab doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew = all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! Fire away. Regards, Kris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: rholden=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Sharks! Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco and the E-R Sharks = to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so much better on = the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I guess you could = choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am upgrading = my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version. Thanks for you comments! Bob Holden. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to = build my=20 models of the BF-15 and BF-16.  The subject in the article used = what I=20 think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions = are the=20 same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different.  The older = version had=20 poorly molded details (ie doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom=20 corners.  When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more = accurate fuel=20 tank. 
 
The major inaccuracy of the Shark in the article = is the=20 rear diaphram.  Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they = might look=20 like and used the diaphragm kit from American Limited.  Its = supposed to be=20 used for EMD F7s, etc.  This is not prototypical.  If any of = you get=20 to go to the convention look for them because I expect to display them = side by=20 side.  You'll see the tremendous difference. 
 
Please offer constructive criticism.  I = know of two=20 other items which I missed.  There should be another sand hatch = half way up=20 the nose above the front truck and the side rear door should be = recessed, much=20 like the cab doors.  I could kick myself for not including this = because I=20 knew all along I had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just=20 forgot!
 
Fire away.
 
Regards,
 
Kris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 rholden=20
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 8:45 = PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Sharks!

Yea, Jerry Britton bought both samples of the Roco = and the=20 E-R Sharks to our Northern Central meeting, and the paint job was so = much=20 better on the E-R version! But if you are scratchbuilding one...I = guess you=20 could choose the Roco model...isn't it less expensive anyway? I am = upgrading=20 my E-R versions, but I can't argue with what Kris Kollar did with his = version.=20 Thanks for you comments! Bob = Holden.
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BFB3CD.A7B09B60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 02:41:49 EDT Subject: [PRR] Kris' PRR Sharks! Hey Yuze Gize, I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent work! Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, yes, it always has for me. Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. <> So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... <> Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other are on us. As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... <> Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 08:49:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 07:35:04 -0700 Martin Lofton of Sunshine Models sold a nice leaf spring to be used on the F30a flat car trucks that was made in resin and could be used on just about anything. Might be too narrow for your use, as it was meant to fit in between the widely-spaced coil spring packages on the sideframe. Nice kit, by the way! -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 5:49 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Leaf springs for trucks. In a message dated 5/1/00 11:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time, fredrea@juno.com writes: << Does any one know a source for leaf springs for HO trucks. >> Unfortunately, the package of a few I have doesn't have the maker listed, and I hafve had them for years anyway. However, Bowser may still sell a leaf spring assembly (combination leaf and coil) for the Kiesel tender truck--don't know if that is usable for your purposes. It is part #320. Phone is 800-327-5126. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 15:28:54 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Update From: Jerry Britton I got an update from Ivan Frantz over the weekend and from that information updated the convention agenda residing on the Cyber Division's web site: http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com There are five layout tours available. Three are in homes; two are clubs. PLAN WELL as not all are open at all times! Maps will be available at the convention. Friday night there are two home layouts open from 7-9. Their proximity barely allows visiting both. One is in Shermans Dale and one in Mechanicsburg. On Sunday, the Shermans Dale home layout will be open from noon until 3. Take note that Ivan did not know this and it may not be shown as open on the information haded out at the convention! This layout will indeed be open again! The club layout in Mechanicsburg will also be open. Heading down I-83 towards York, there will be a home layout open in Emigsville and a club in York. ALSO, as reported months ago on the Cyber Division site but only now realized by The Society, the Harrisburg Chapter of the NRHS will have HARRIS Tower open on Sunday from noon until 3 p.m. If you've never been there, I highly recommend it. Though they probably won't kick you out, I can tell you that the big arrival will be the eastbound Three Rivers. I don't know when it is "due" in, but this past Sunday it arrived at around 3:15. It had 26 cars, of which only 5 were passenger!!! They cut off 5 roadrailers after about a 20 minute layover. Then the switcher went to work. Most action is Harrisburg/east, so there's not a lot passing in front of the tower, but my son and I did see 7 trains in about an hour! Not sure what the traffic is like earlier in the afternoon. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For Brass Enthusiasts (under development) http://www.brasstrains.net For Dealers and Manufacturers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 16:43:42 -0400 I have just talked to Dave at Miracle Castings. They are reorganizing but they expect to be in business for a while! Rumors of their demise appear to be premature. They are shipping additional BP20 A units to us today. He also says that the Baby Trainmaster should be finished in a few weeks. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Modelers, I am in the midst of modeling another K4. This time it is a PFM modernized K4. I am modeling it to represent how it would have appeared in the mid 1950's. This one will retain its chicken coop pilot but have the modernized headlight/generator positions. I noticed on certain photos that the Pennsy started using a small auxilary light mounted above the Keystone Number Plate. (purpose?) I want to add this feature to this K4 also. I want to use an MV lens to represent the light but what would be the best part to represent the light housing itself. Anyone have experience on this part?...TIA, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] We're not dead yet! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:27:21 -0400 Hi Everyone! Sorry I haven't responded to the posts on the list sooner, but I've been one busy camper. Just so everyone has the story straight, here's what's been happening at Miracle Castings Inc., and what will happen: 1) Miracle Castings has undergone an internal reorganization, which has seen the following changes take place: Mike White has stepped down as CEO, and is being replaced by me (Pat Lawless). Scott Heiden remains as President. Mike has taken over the Vice President's position, but won't be involved on a day-to-day basis with the operation of the company, due to other committments. While the negotiations around these business changes were taking place, not much activity was going on within the company, due to the uncertainty of the outcome. However, as of last Wednesday, the necessary papers were signed, and everyone here is happy with the outcome. 2) The web site problems actually were due to the service provider temporarily shutting down. They shed their dial-up service, reorganized, and re-opened offering only web hosting services. Our site is now back up and running, but there are still a few glitches. Let me know if you find any. Needless to say we weren't happy with the complete lack of notice, and coming when it did, this certainly was enough to generate a few rumours. 3) The company is definitely going ahead with the H-15-44, as well as with lots of future projects. As owners, Scott and I will be handling the day-to-day operations of the company, and we are committed to seeing this through. Miracle Castings is here for the long haul. The response to the products we have already offered has proven to us that there is a market for what we have to offer, and we aren't going to let the opportunity go by. 4) To help grow the company faster, and improve communications and service with our customers, I have added a Sales Manager to our organization. His name is Dave Henwood, and he can be reached at sales@mc.cyklone.com , or on his cell phone at (519) 754-6945. Dave is an accomplished modeler with an excellent background in sales, plus a thorough knowledge of the model railroading industry. We're glad to have him associated with our company, and you will find him to be very helpful if you have questions. 5) I'm swamped! There's a lot of catch-up work to do, but I'm making progress, and getting lots of help from the other people who are associated with Miracle Castings. Just for the record, here's some of the people who have been involved with Miracle Castings in the past, and who are looking forward to being involved in the future: Al and Debbie Stefanovic: Casting contractors John Lucek: Kit assembly and physical plant Barry McClelland: Model maker, mold maker, and caster. Judy Heiden: Administration All of these folks have advised me that they are behind us 100%, and that they are looking forward to being very busy in the future. In short, it's going to take a very large stick to kill this company, so don't worry about us. Now that things are cooking again, we're going to be pushing hard to complete existing projects (such as the H-15-44 and the Gas Launch), and planning for future products as well. So stand by, and we'll have some new stuff for you to buy shortly! I'll keep Jerry notified of availability just as soon as I have some firm numbers. Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings BP20, Baby TM Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:47:33 -0700 Dennis, Jerry and just about everybody else, The following was sent to me by one of the members of my Model RR club. For those of you who are not familiar with The Original Whistle Stop Hobbies, it is probably the largest and best hobby shop in the Los Angeles area. I am passing it on because I believe that these guys are on the right track. Bill Daniels > >From: The Original Whistle Stop > >Reply-To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >To: "HotSheet - The Original Whistle Stop Announcements" > > > >Subject: Much Ado Over Kalmbach and eHobbies > >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:37:33 > > > >Here's some news about something that's happening in our industry. We think > >you should know about it. > > > >One of the first things Whistle Stop customers see when they walk in our > >door is a wall of model and prototype railroad magazines. Prominent among > >that selection are titles from Kalmbach Publishing Co. You know most of > >them: "Model Railroader", "Trains", "Garden Railways", "Classic Toy > >Trains", "Finescale Modeler." > > > >These magazines are not on our shelves any more. > > > >Well, since you asked...We've suspended all Kalmbach products in response > >to the April 4th announcement that Kalmbach and eHobbies, a newly > >established Web-only retailer of hobby supplies, have joined forces. The > >announced purpose of their joint effort is to ..."enable eHobbies to > >provide the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" > > > >That sounds pretty good, at least on the surface. We're hobbyists, too. We > >like what the Internet has done and could do to enhance our hobby > >experience. (We, as retailers, like the opportunity the Internet gives us > >to reach you). We like Kalmbach magazines and How-To books. Sounds like a > >Win-Win deal for everyone. > > > >However, as a competing advertiser in Kalmbach publications we feel this > >announced partnership equates to Kalmbach's endorsement of eHobbies over > >all of its other retail advertisers, including Whistle Stop. > > > >We, and a bunch of other hobby retailers, don't feel we should help > >Kalmbach single out and build up one of our competitors, no matter how > >benevolent that competitor may seem. > > > >By paying for advertising in Kalmbach magazines, by selling their books, > >magazines and videos, we help Kalmbach make this competitor stronger. We > >have elected not to. We have pulled our ads from their magazines, and we've > >pulled their products off our shelves. > > > >In fact at the National Hobby Retailers Association annual conference last > >week in Las Vegas, roughly 75 other dealers from across the country handed > >Kalmbach a signed notice that they were taking the same action. > > > >We could leave it at that. Some of you probably wish we would! You might be > >saying. "I don't care about the politics of the business. I don't care if > >Whistle Stop and Kalmbach are having a tiff. I just want my magazines!" > > > >And that's fair. We apologise that this issue may result in some customers > >not having easy access to their favorite magazines. In the long run, we > >think you'll benefit. > > > >Who is eHobbies? You've seen their multi-page full-color "Chief in the > >desert" advertisements in every hobby magazine there is. Some of you have > >probably logged on to check it out. If you're an experienced model > >railroader you probably didn't stay long, because there isn't much there > >for you. > > > >If some company wants to spend maga-bucks to advertise their Web site that > >doesn't have anything on it, why should Whistle Stop care? > > > >Look more closely. Why would anyone with the kind of money that's being > >spent on these ads want to spend it for that Web site? And why should you > >care! If you're a serious hobbyist...trains, plains or submarines, you > >should care a lot. > > > >The one conclusion that most hobby retailers (That's us) have reached is > >that eHobbies exists to establish the basis of an IPO. An Eye-Pee-What? An > >Initial Public Offering. A sale of stock in their company to the public. > > > >It doesn't matter how much they spend on promotion, and they've spent a > >ton. It doesn't matter how little they sell (How much have you bought from > >them?) It doesn't matter that eHobbies might never make any money. We (Not > >just Whistle Stop, but a lot of other hobby shops) believe the fundamental > >purpose for eHobbies is to convince speculators that there is so much > >untapped business in the hobby industry (not just model trains) that what > >this company is spending now doesn't matter. > > > >If you've gotten this far, you might write this entire issue off as a bunch > >of established retailers like Whistle Stop trying to maintain the status > >quo; trying to hold on to their piece of the pie. It may sound like a bunch > >of little guys sounding the alarm as the BIG GUYS are invading their > >territory. Kalmbach and eHobbies are definitely the BIG GUYS. > > > >To this we admit partial guilt. This is our business after all. Of course > >we're looking out for our best interests. We feel it is also in your best > >interest as a hobbyist to have a local hobby shop for supplies and > >information now and in the future. > > > >We realize the nature of selling anything -- hobbies included -- has > >changed with the existence of the Internet. Your ability to read this is > >evidence enough. > > > >eHobbies has the resources to potentially attract new customers into hobby > >fields. We don't know how many new hobby customers are out there. But we're > >concerned that, contrary to eHobbies boast, those customers will not > >recieve "the most comprehensive hobby experience anywhere" until they do go > >to their local hobby store. > > > >The partnership between eHobbies and Kalmbach does not promote local hobby > >shops, so we cannot support it. > > > >So, do we think eHobbies is some evil force that will engulf and devour the > >hobby retailing industry and then go public and move on? No....and yes. > > > >No, their ultimate impact may only be on Wall Street when potential > >investors realize the hobby industry pie is only so big and the wildly > >speculative window of opportunity for Dot.Com-only companies that don't > >actually make a profit has already closed. > > > >In that case, the vast sums spent by eHobbies will somehow have to be > >justified by profits from the products they actually sell. That's going to > >be quite a trick based on our 50 years observing what it costs to sell > >hobbies; especially at a time when margins -- our profit on every item we > >sell -- have been shrinking every year. > > > >On the other hand, we (hobby retailers) do feel eHobbies is acting like one > >of the bad guys. The immediate impact from a company like eHobbies, is they > >will cut into our ability to even carry the products that attract new > >customers. Without new customers we can't grow. If we don't grow, we die. > > > >If items like starter sets and new engines won't sell here, we'll have to > >quit buying them. eHobbies may have beaucoup bucks to spend on promotion > >and no incentive to be conventionally profitable. Whistle Stop has to make > >a profit to keep the doors open. > > > >Don't worry. Whistle Stop plans to be around for quite a while. Though > >eHobbies may take a bite out of our sales, their impact on Whistle Stop > >will hopefully be no greater than any number of other new kids on the block > >over the years. This new Giant-RetailerDot.Com shouldn't affect us any more > >than Giant-Mail-Order Inc. has in the past. > > > >Our level of service and depth of inventory will hopefully prevail over the > >discounts and flash of these other faceless companies. > > > >Think it over. Take some action.Write or E-Mail us. Write to Kalmbach. Let > >us know if you feel our reaction to Kalmbach's partnership with eHobbies is > >appropriate. > > > >Thanks for getting all the way to the end of this! We'll try to keep our > >industry politics to a minimum. > > > >We look forward to serving you. > > > > > >Brian, Fred and the gang. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] Re: Kris' PRR Sharks! Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:49:26 -0400 Greg MArtin wrote, "So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... " I scratch built the disphragm on the second Shark. There is an excellent book from Withers Publishing entitled, "Baldwin Cab and Transfer Units" It has a wealth of information. For example some Sharks have a fuel tank with a center dial gauge (which was plagued by leaks) while others have a sight tube on the lower front corner. Lots of trivia. It contains several good shots of the rear door. Without photos its hard to explain. Here's a tip. The rear door had a safety chain that you snapped across the diaphragm to prevent falls. Make the loops to fasten the chain from scale chain. I used 40 links per inch scale chain. Cut the end off of one link then drill number 80 holes and attach with super glue. Thanks. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 2:41 AM Subject: Kris' PRR Sharks! > Hey Yuze Gize, > > I have to admit that I knew of this project before it printed. Kris had told > me it was in the MR archives for nearly two years now. What he has not told > you is that this model is a first effort, and a first article. I would say > that he has done a tremendous job and his work never ceases to amaze me. We > chatted a bit tonight on the phone and I told him I planned to make a few > comments but not until I read the entire article, and I have. Excellent > work! > > Combining research with good modeling discipline makes for excellent > entertainment for all of us here that share the same feeling about our > favorite railroad. I am sure we could all find a few little things that are > not as correct as they should be, but it is the complete effort that make > this such a beautiful model. Could each of us do better, perhaps > collectively yes? Does writing such an article put you in the firing line, > yes, it always has for me. > > Kris and all, if we criticize the whole of the project, what have we gained? > If we simple enjoy what you have put before us we have something to aspire > too, and challenge ourselves to do at least as well as... > > << I used both of the old Model Power Sharks to build my models of the BF-15 > and BF-16. The subject in the article used what I think is the older version > of the MP Shark. The shells in both versions are the same but the fuel > tanks/battery boxes are different. The older version had poorly molded > details (i.e., doors, hinges) and is tapered on the bottom corners. When I > built my BF-16 this MP shark had a much more accurate fuel tank.>> > > I only have the first run of the MP Sharks and Like Gary and Berry I would > not part with mine. One thing I am going to do is put a constant lighting > kit in them. I have 4 powered A's and 2 unpowered B's, one still in the > original Santa Fe Warbonnet... My fuel tanks are well detailed. > > < Since I lacked good photos I guessed what they might look like and used the > diaphragm kit from American Limited. Its supposed to be used for EMD F7s, > etc. This is not prototypical. If any of you get to go to the convention > look for them because I expect to display them side by side. You'll see the > tremendous difference.>> > > So tell us Kris, what can we do for a better diaphragm? I only wished I > could see them together. I have one set complete in Five stripes and the two > separate lettering placements, this make for some interesting comments... > > < missed. There should be another sand hatch half way up the nose above the > front truck and the side rear door should be recessed, much like the cab > doors. I could kick myself for not including this because I knew all along I > had to fix it but if you can believe it, I just forgot! > > Fire away.>> > > Well, at least you know what needs to be done on your next set, correct? We > are our own worst critics, we are by nature harder on ourselves than other > are on us. > > As I say, a beautiful effort, I am looking forward to more articles from you. > Hopefully your work has as a profound effect on others as it has on me. You > have motivated me enough to get my PA/B article finished... > > < > Kris >> > > Greg Martin Admirer not critical... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jim Cullen" Subject: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:00:06 -0400 Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot long, for their steam engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they use; e.g. number of axles? Thanks. Jim ----------------------------------------------- Elizabeth & Austin Divisions of the PRR (N-Scale) http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen Jim's Railroad Pictures http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 22:59:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) Folks, This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's about as strong of a position as you can take. I know some guys who buy only from hobby shops, full list prices notwithstanding. Me, heck, I try never to pay full price for anything, least as far as hobby goods and cars and train tickets go. If I can get an Atheran USRA mike for $110, I ain't paying $140. I know the dealer has his costs to cover, but I've got mine , too. I've got young kids and every extra buck I spend is one less for their needs. Life is tough, to be sure. I finally got lucky and a shop opened near me where the prices are discounted and the dealer is actually a very nice person. I can't help it, but most of the full price guys around here act like it bothers them when someone comes in to shop..and I ain't giving these stiffs list price for that kind of service. Oh well, the debate will rage. I took a curious look at eHobbies and felt no urge to break out the credit card. On the other hand, I placed an order with Jerry's Merchandise service once and had it in about four days: most excellant service. A tough trade and I've really come to think service with a smile, at a good price, is the key to survival. Regards, Barry Peltier St.Paul, MN ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Jim, The only evidence I see of the Pennsy using oil tenders were the handful of L1 2-8-2's and of course the leased 2-10-4 from the Santa Fe. I believe these tenders had 8 wheel Buckeye type trucks. Ofcourse this wasn't a Pennsy design....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:36:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "E Hobbies"/ Kalmbach (Was Miricle Castings,etc) From: Jerry Britton On 5/2/00 10:59 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > This is a reminder of a debate dating back to my earliest days in the hobby, > in the 1950's, and probably long before. Then of course, there were no > electronic contenders, and the debate raged over mail order VS retail hobby > shops. In the forefront of the "support your local hobby shop" ranks was > always Kalmbach, in spite of the many mail order dealers advertisning in > their mags. They've since, far as I notice, fallen rather silent on the > issue, and now have joinded the "mail order" forces, it appears. Some other > of the mags won't even carry ads for discounters, to this day. Guess that's > about as strong of a position as you can take. I haven't verified anything direct myself, but I was notified that there is an ORGANIZED boycott of advertising starting against the Kalmbach publications. I am not an advertiser, so I am not involved. However, it will inevitably weaken magazines such as MR. Heck, I make one pass just reading the ads! Lost ads mean lost income means fewer pages or less quality. In the shadows of the impending Microsoft split -- with apologies to John Cooper! -- it is wrong for a trade magazine to ally itself with the distribution channel. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 04:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? --- Jim Cullen wrote: > > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot > long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they > use; e.g. number of > axles? At the level of detail you're asking about, this won't be much help, but... I was a little kid during WW2 (the big one) and I vaguely recall having seen and having been told about some PRR engines which burned oil. As I recall, they just had an oil tank built into what had been the coal bunker space. This was told to me as an example of how the war was altering "the way things are done". I've puzzled over that from time to time in the decades since. During the war there was a continual fuss about petroleum products, gasoline rationing, admonitions to conserve gasoline, news items on the importance of producing aviation fuel and fuel for tanks rather than civilian motor fuel, and on and on. How then would burning oil in steam locomotives be advantageous? My guess is that in that era, the refiners weren't as clever at cracking heavy petroleum fractions to produce gasoline. Hence, producing bezillions of gallons of avgas left behind large quantities of heavy, tarry stuff good only for burning to raise steam. Altering locomotives to burn that would free up coal which might then be used to make coke to make steel, another hot item at the time. Don't know how well it worked out, don't know if the locomotive(s) I saw were a small sample out of many or all that there were. As I recall, the chief or only distinguishing characteristic was no pile of coal visible in the tender. That's not to say that Phase 2 of the project didn't involve speciallly designed tenders. Wish I had taken notes at the time, but had I had the maturity to do so then, good chance this letter would have to be posthumous. Doubt that there's much chance of finding photos, as photographing railroads was unlawful "for the duration of the war effort". ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:21:15 -0400 From: Robert Wickus Subject: [PRR] Form CT 220 Does anyone on the list know where I can buy, beg, borrow or copy a blank Form CT 220? If anyone can help, please contact me off list Many thanks, Bob Wickus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 05:59:21 -0700 Well, I guess it's time I jumped into this controversy. As I understand it, locomotives assigned to the Baltimore area were set up to burn oil...this includes the previously mentioned L1s class locomotives as well as some B class switchers. I don't know if any other locomotives were also set up to burn oil. Oil had some advantages over coal, in that it had a higher BTU content (you burned less to produce more heat), no cinder cutting of flues and superheater elements, and no ash formation, which meant that there was no ash disposal problem. Steam locomotives that were set up to burn oil had a seperate tank installed in the tender, whether it was originally set up to burn coal or not. This had two advantages. One that if the tank developed a leak, it could be easily removed for repair, and Two, locomotives could be readily converted from coal to oil (or back again if necessary). I read somewhere that the PRR gave early consideration (around the turn of the last century) to converting all locomotive fuel to oil. It was cheaper than coal, and the other money saving considerations were also factors. But further analysis showed that at the time the PRR would use so much oil they would push the price up so that the price advantage would disappear. You don't see that kind of thinking much these days! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:00:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? << --- Jim Cullen wrote: > > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot > long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they > use; e.g. number of > axles? >> Cover of Spring 1995 Keystone shows E6s #13 at Baltimore with 70P66 tender converted to oil in 1946 (photos is from 1951. Quoting loosely from inside cover paragraph, it mentions B6sb #5267 (60S66 tender) and H9s $3690 (70F70a tender) converted in 1936 and dropped by January 1947. Both were used in the Baltimore area as well. It also mentions 10 L1s with 90F80 tenders converted in 1946 for New York, Panhandle, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Susquehanna divisions. In 1952 another L1s with 110P75 tender was converted for Susquehanna Divison. All the L1s were retired by 1953. Five of the L1s supplied heat to Sunnyside in stationary service from 1954 to 1958. Roger Keyser wrote the information. In the short paragraph he did not mention the reason(s) for the conversion. Seems to me there was additional info in the Keystone on the Baltimore engines--was it smoke abatement? Perhaps the 1946 conversions were an experiment to evaluate alternatives to John L. Lewis's miners' union activity at that time, which activity was raising the price of fuel rather sharply, at least according to management in the country at the time. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Colman Gerald Subject: [PRR] Coal Docks Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:43:09 -0500 To List: I am interested in modeling one of Pennsy's coal docks. Can anyone help direct me to where I can find drawings, plans, photos, etc. Are there any still standing that I can go and visit? Thanks Jerry Colman ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Oil-burners on PRR Bob Zoeller referred to information in the Keystone regarding oil-burning PRR locomotives in the Baltimore area circa 1936-47, and oil-burning L1's on several divisions 1946-1953. He further pointed to troubles in the coal industry in 1946 as a possible motivation for the latter. Bill Daniels defended oil as having several inherent advantages over coal as a locomotive fuel. Bob Netzlof now says: Could be that I got a recollection of events in 1946 folded into events in the closing year of WW2. Certainly there was a major crisis in the coal industry just after the war. As I recall, Truman prevented (or ended) a national miner's strike by nationalizing all coal mines, under authority of some act passed during the war. But, since I had remembered the few instances of oil-burners on the Pittsburgh Division as a WW2 thing, I was commenting on "the advantage" in the context of "since every time you turn around something is being shut down to conserve oil", how is it an advantage to come up with a new consumer of oil? On balance, I suspect my claim of "oil-burners on the PRR during WW2" should be amended to "..just after WW2.." I certainly didn't mean to imply that I think coal is superior to oil as a locomotive fuel, although it too is less than perfect. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:16:11 -0500 From: "J. R. N. Witmer" Subject: [PRR] oil tenders Pennsy Power (1) has a photograph of a tender, arranged for oil firing, as installed behind a B6sb. It was, as mentioned on the list, assigned yo yhr Baltimore area in 1939. Can't tell much about the trucks. I seem to recall that another switcher, assigned to Washington Union Station shifting, burned oil at about the same time. Captain Jack ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] oil tenders Captain Jack, I don't recall you ever posting here on PRR-Talk. Many of us have seen your information exchange articles in the Keystone. If this is your first post, let me be the first to welcome you in. Your knowledge will be much welcomed here.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 19:59:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Gary, I will also be modelling a K4s with an auxiliary light. I have read about them being called "yard lights." I know nothing about their use, only their presence or absence on some K4s engines. I found that Bowser part number 90432 looks like it will do the job for me. It's intended for the old T1 boiler, and it's on page 140 under H. The photo shows it head on; the casting has a long rear section; you'll need to drill a big hole (larger than #50) to mount it. Hope this helps! Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Modelers, > > I am in the midst of modeling another K4. This time it is a PFM > modernized K4. I am modeling it to represent how it would have appeared > in the mid 1950's. This one will retain its chicken coop pilot but have > the modernized headlight/generator positions. I noticed on certain > photos that the Pennsy started using a small auxilary light mounted > above the Keystone Number Plate. (purpose?) I want to add this feature > to this K4 also. I want to use an MV lens to represent the light but > what would be the best part to represent the light housing itself. > Anyone have experience on this part?...TIA, Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 20:04:56 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Oil Tenders? Jim, list, Aside from the B6sb and L1s engines that other members have posted about, there was at least one E6s that was oil fired. The engine was on the cover of the Keystone a few years back. I can't be exact about the date, as my collection is in storage, but perhaps another member can tell us what issue it was. The E6s tender was one of the 70P70 subclasses, and it had dolphin trucks, if I remember correctly. Doug Jim Cullen wrote: > Did the PRR ever use oil tenders, around 50-60 foot long, for their steam > engines? If they did, what kind of trucks did they use; e.g. number of > axles? > Thanks. Jim > ----------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth & Austin Divisions of the PRR (N-Scale) > http://members.tripod.com/jimcullen > > Jim's Railroad Pictures > http://www.geocities.com/jimcullen > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 aux. light. Doug, Ted, list, Now I know what the aux. light was (for yard use), was this only used on a few locos operating on the South Amboy, Long Branch area in the mid-late 50's? For those who have the book called "I Remember Pennsy" by Don Wood, there is a closeup of K4 3880 on page 9 that shows this light fairly plainly.. It looks like it might be easy enough to model if the Bowser part Doug mentioned dosn't work....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "RANDY WILLIAMSON" Subject: Re: [PRR] Form CT 220 Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:41:49 -0500 Forget my naivetivety but what is a Form CT 220? Randy Williamson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wickus" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 7:21 AM Subject: [PRR] Form CT 220 > Does anyone on the list know where I can buy, beg, borrow or copy a > blank Form CT 220? > > If anyone can help, please contact me off list > > Many thanks, > > Bob Wickus > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry Shickler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal Docks Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:30:36 -0700 Jerry, I have some pictures of the PRR docks in Erie on my page: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/erie.htm The Winter '87 Keystone has a Lake Dock Pictorial. ---- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Colman Gerald To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 6:43 AM Subject: [PRR] Coal Docks > To List: > > I am interested in modeling one of Pennsy's coal docks. Can anyone help > direct me to where I can find drawings, plans, photos, etc. > Are there any still standing that I can go and visit? > > Thanks > Jerry Colman > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:31:20 -0400 Subject: [PRR] I've Got That Convention Itch!!! From: Jerry Britton Yes, folks, it's just 4.5 hours till the 2000 Annual Convention of the PRRT&HS kicks off its first seminar...Al Buchan speaking on MoW. I don't know about you, but I look forward to the convention as kids do Christmas! This year's program looks to be excellent. Probably the best slate of seminars in a few years, plus five different layout tours, plus HARRIS Tower is open! How can you go wrong? I'll make reports each evening when I return home. I live just a few miles off-site (lucky me for the next three years!), but they'll be late in the evening, so look for them in your morning mail. The vendor's room won't be open today due to a conflicting event with the space, so look for the first product reports tomorrow (Friday). For those attending, please stop by the www.pennsyrr.com tables. The Cyber Division folks will be hanging out -- with their cool new shirts -- and I'll have new product info, such as the N scale Baldwin Sharks that are coming out. If you can't make the show, check out the Merchandise Service page for details on these and other very recent announcements. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:30:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention Jerry & List - I regret not being able to get a finished building to Jerry in time for the convention but accidents in shipping will happen. Good news, I will have with me on Saturday cast walls so that you can at least see the size and detail for yourself. And I will be there to answer any questions you might have. We know how hard Jerry has worked to promote this kit and certainly appreciate it. Dayna Trainstuff LLC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:30:02 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention Jerry & List - I regret not being able to get a finished building to Jerry in time for the convention but accidents in shipping will happen. Good news, I will have with me on Saturday cast walls so that you can at least see the size and detail for yourself. And I will be there to answer any questions you might have. We know how hard Jerry has worked to promote this kit and certainly appreciate it. Dayna Trainstuff LLC ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: K-4sDRIVER@webtv.net (Mark Lehman) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Bryn Mawr tower Anyone know what the call letters were for the tower in Bryn Mawr,Pa? Thax Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 06:14:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention -- Day One From: Jerry Britton EXCELLENT session on MoW by Al Buchan. Slides and discussion of some very remote equipment. A handout listed the specific consists of several work trains with references to accurate models. Excellent, Al. I see if we can post this online. Vendors Room was open on an informal basis. Only about 1/3 were actually set up. There is a huge selection of ETT's at one table. Bob Strong showed up with 37 of his superb towers to display. All but three were presold! Numerous ZOOS, a HARRIS for me and one for Ken McCorry, BANKS, VIEW, HUNT, CORK, etc. He also did the Juniata Scales! Met up with numerous PRR-Talk'ers -- some that I've already known and some new acquaintances. Kris Kollar was there and will have his Sharks in the Model Room -- alongside his article from the current issue of Model Railroader. All for now. Look for my next report late today or first thing Saturday. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 08:55:47 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Thorndale on my PRR layout Hi Gang, Well, yesterday I wore my Cyber Division shirt, since I couldn't exactly BE at the PRRT&HS meeting physically! I did put part of yesterday to good use, designing the first staging yard for my layout based on a contraction of PARK, CALN and THORN. 4 mainline tracks go off into oblivion with 2 of them flying over the A&S. The yard is 10 tracks, with the Thorndale coaling wharf in the middle, plus a track for the cinder hopper. I'm still trying to decide if the furthest back track or two shouldn't dive down to the staging yard below (ENOLA) to allow continuous running... The other thing that hasn't been drawn yet is the neat "helper pocket" at Thorndale. There were two coaling towers, of very light construction, placed between two tracks, without catenary, that allowed steam help to be coaled after the coal wharf was taken out of service. These occaisionally have been mistaken for sanding towers, which were also present between these two tracks, but the coaling towers have classic coal chutes. Might anyone have drawings or detailed photos of these unique coaling towers? In the Thorndale yard, the longest siding is 17+ feet, the shortest is 14'. I'm figuring on 20 car trains (2 P-5a, 18x40 footers and 2x50 footers, plus a cabin to be about 14 feet). Anything over 20 cars will require helpers uphill (note that uphill in this case is West from Thorndale and East from COLA as the summit is in the middle of that stretch!! Next to draw is Columbia, and "ENOLA" staging, which will finish the upper deck/A&S component, after which I will post the drawing for comment! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 5 May 00 14:51:52 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation As most of you have heard, the Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society acquired the old PRR freight Station which was at the end of the abandoned Newtown Square Branch. This station dates to 1896 and is reported to be the oldest PRR freight in existence. The station was moved for a new road way. The society had a few hours notice to move the station from it's old foundation to a temporary location out of the right of way for the new road. The Society has received permission to place the station on Township property, a new foundation is in place and the station will be moved on Monday of next week. Being both a member of the PRRT&HS and the Newtown Historical Society, I have been asked to give them a height for the platform of the station to the ground. Since they will no doubt put a section of track in place at a later date, my recomended height should allow for this contingency. This section would probably be non ballasted and use 90 lb rail, as the origional was at the end of the Newtown Line. Would height would you give them for the platform from the ground, with and without the section of track? Thanks for your help. Pete ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 Infobeat Junk Mail Inbox Trash -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright © 1998-2000 American Express Company All Rights Reserved. Users of this site agree to be bound by the American Express Company Web Site Rules and Regulations and the AmExMail Subscriber Agreement of AmExMail and associated services. View Privacy Statement of American Express. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:14:30 -0400 I hadn't heard about this and I can't believe that station is still there! I lived in Newtown Square until I was 10 ('63) and remember the freight station sign on the side facing Newtown Street Rd. You just brought back a memory of our car encountering a Baldwin switcher at the Malin Rd. crossing coming out of the weeds all those years ago. And of our Scout troop hiking across the high trestle over Marple Road where I-476 goes through today (and me telling some scared scouts it was unlikely we would encounter a train as they only went as far as Lobb's Lumberyard on Eagle Rd. in Oakmont by then). Thanks for the memories.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jimy6b@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 17:38:14 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Day One Does one have to be a member of the PRRT&H to participate in any of the convention activities? James ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 18:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] PRR Offical? List, Does the name Frank Conti ring a bell to anyone familiar with ex-PRR Officals? He was supposely a Pittsburgh Region Offical, years 1950's thru 1972. In 1972 went on to Amtrak. The reason I ask is I was at a very large Community sale in my area today and met his son, accidently. I have no reason not to believe what "stories" he related to me but it sounds like his Dad was very important. Worth millions I am told. Anyway his son, who looks like a junk man, nothing wrong with that, was selling a Pennsy Loco Bell along with tons of other non-railroad flea market junk. After looking over the Bell I found that it was stamped with the numbers JN (Juniata Shops) 5412. Wow, another K4 Bell. I might be nterested in purchasing this one too to go along with my other K4 5389 Bell. The Bell has a problem though. The handle where the rope was once tied to is broke off. 95% of the Bell is all there. Just missing the air inlet pipe and the air lines to the clapper. Overall condition is quite nice and untouched as to restoration. He told me the price was $1,000.00. Not bad, cheaper than mine. If I do not go after it would anyone here on the list be interesed in it? I have a feeling the price was raised though after our conversation. He didn't see those numbers and he didn't know it was from a K4 at one time. He does now, (thanks to my big mouth) and hence the raise in price. Who knows, it may have been sold after I left the sale. If I remember correctly as to what he said, this was once his Dads. Oh yes, he also had for sale today another Pennsy Bell. Just the Bell, Price $600.00. Too steep! Thats how I spent my Friday afternoon while the Pennsy Convention rolls on.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Klambach etc Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 01:39:59 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From my perspective in the UK the only good thing about Model Railroader = etc is I can get it in my local newsagent. The magazine seems to use the = same few authors all the time, which doesn't impress.=20 As for the mail order people I have just lost my nearest American dealer = in London, ( 75 miles) and now have to go even further to visit a shop. There is a = good and reasonably priced mail order dealer in south and I tend to use = him. I am somewhat wary of the "dot com" trade as they mey vanish fast = and, how long will they keep their prices down??.=20 If only I could get RMC in WH Smith! Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From my perspective in the UK the only = good thing=20 about Model Railroader etc is I can get it in my local newsagent. The = magazine=20 seems to use the same few authors all the time, which doesn't impress.=20
 
As for the mail order people I have = just lost my=20 nearest American dealer in London,
( 75 miles) and now=20 have to go even further to visit a shop. There is a good and reasonably = priced=20 mail order dealer in south and I tend to use him. I am somewhat wary of = the "dot=20 com" trade as they mey vanish fast and, how long will they keep their = prices=20 down??.
 
If only I could get RMC in WH = Smith!
 
Patrick = Grace
------=_NextPart_000_008C_01BFB6FB.FD7DF480-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 06:38:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention -- Day One From: Jerry Britton On 5/5/00 5:38 PM, Jimy6b@aol.com at (Jimy6b@aol.com) wrote: > Does one have to be a member of the PRRT&H to participate in any of the > convention activities? > You have to be registered for the convention. Registration is one price for members, another for non-members. However, the latter is high enough that it includes membership. So, in a round about way, the answer is yes. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 06:53:05 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Two From: Jerry Britton Another excellent day in convention land. Ivan Frantz did a superb job of organizing. Kris Kollar's sharks were on display in the model room, as were another set of sharks! Sunshine has out a new X-41 box. They had it on display in the silver Merchandise Service scheme. Tons of Employee Timetables to be had....more than I have ever seen. Also, unusual quantities of early Keystones. Lister Dave Wartell came in needing 6 to complete his collection and now needs only 2. He found Volume 1, Number 1! I did not attend the session on Erie, but did attend the session on Geeps. Good, with another informative handout. I previously wasn't aware that the PRR had any of the "torpedo tube" GP7's! We had about two dozen Listers for the dinner at the Ground Round. Went well and good stories were shared. In the evening, the Penn Valley Pictures folks showed some Clarence Weaver films that have yet to be published on video. A lot of passenger operation on the Harrisburg-Williamsport line was included. All for now...off to round three! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:28:36 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] H6s Can anyone out there refer me to a source for diagrams and/or drawings for an H6sb suitable for use in scratchbuilding? Thanks Elliot Fishbein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] "standard" railings What I mean by standard are the 2- and 3-pipe railings the PRR used in many places, like on bridges. The brass railings previously sold by Pikestuff are apparently out of production, but 2 different people had plastic stanchions at the convention. The folks at the Model Railroad StoneWorks booth had 2 sets, which may have been different only in the number of stanchions provided. (I didn't remember to look at the number of pipes). Also, Paul Backinstose had sets which he's done or had done for him, which I believe were 2-pipe versions. MRSW's address is out there and I think I have Paul's downstairs if anyone cares. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 21:58:47 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pullman named cars According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 22:33:40 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR S-2 Turbine Skipping the PRR T&HS I met Mike Wolf, Owner of MTH Trains, who was appearing at a Train store in Canton, Ohio He had with him two versions of the PRR S-2 Turbine in "O" scale 3 rail. The "current" Rail King version is 25" long and quite nicely scaled down Approximately $425 with sound $325, without - a very nice looking piece. The "Baby" Turbine - the size of the 1952 Lionel - (22") is due later this year at $229 Today, it looks very "toy train" hard to believe how much I drooled over it, at the neighborhood hardware store, 50 years ago In "O" scale the full size Turbine is about 30" long MW did it in die cast, for Lionel more than 10 years ago - Sunset did it brass, 2 and 3 rail versions, more recently, I'll spare you the prices.... Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:10:38 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". How about J. Findlay Wilson. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 00:44:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings The railings you refer to, that is the plastic ones, while very nicely done are also very fragile. Someone also made these in brass a while back. At the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, use those. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 00:51:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings On Sun, 7 May 2000 MarkCFry@aol.com wrote: > The railings you refer to, that is the plastic ones, while very nicely done > are also very fragile. Someone also made these in brass a while back. At The Pikestuff ones were brass; These may or may not (I don't know) have been the P Company ones; Either way, the brass ones are as near as I can tell all out of production > the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My > recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a > project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. > One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, > use those. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bruce Andrews" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 06:09:22 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [PRR] Pullman named cars > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? This would be the observation car "Colonel Lindbergh", which ran from 1930 to 1942 under that name. There is a photo on page 387 of Pennsy Power III by Alvin f. Staufer. Bruce Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 08:22:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] "standard" railings From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/00 12:51 AM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > The Pikestuff ones were brass; These may or may not (I don't know) have > been the P Company ones; Either way, the brass ones are as near as I can > tell all out of production > >> the moment, the name of the company escapes me (maybe Jerry knows). My >> recommendation is to use the brass ones. I used the plastic ones on a >> project for our club, and while they looked fantastic, they don't last long. >> One simple little bump and it's a disaster. If you can find the brass ones, >> use those. The P Company created the brass railings. At one point, the entire stock was sold to, and marketed by, Pikestuff. The P Company later reacquired all of the unsold stock. It is still available. It comes in two or three rail versions. The three rail version was used in areas where the public would be. Of those two versions, you can purchase either 45' or 85' lengths. Each package has four pieces of the given type and length. I have limited amounts in stock. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 08:32:55 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Three From: Jerry Britton Rave reviews from both layout tours from Friday night: Nick Culp's and Jack Kennedy's. No shots fired at the business meeting. Pretty good. No real action in the Vendor's Room. It opened at 10:30, but by noon most vendors were packing up. Many were headed to another show in Timonium. Dana Warner drove in from Connecticut and had the Wilmington Station on display for a few hours. While it drew much interest from those in attendance, unfortunately most had already left. I'm told that lister Rick Tipton did an excellent job on his Covered Hoppers session, so Kudos to another lister! I have heard the following rumors -- which I cannot confirm: H30 from Eastern Car Works GG-1 from Life Like Proto 2000 At the dinner the awards were given out. Another of our own, Kris Kollar, took home two awards -- which he may not know about yet 'cause he wasn't there! One for his Baldwin freight sharks which appear in the current issue of Model Railroader. Also for his L1 (do have the class right?). Good evening session on PRR advertising, and artist Gil Reed was present for an ovation. Oh, yeah, the original Grif Teller painting "On Time" was on display throughout the day, on loan from the family that owns it. Off to layout tours today. The 2001 convention will be hosted by the Pittsburgh Chapter. The 2002 convention has a host but announcement will not be made yet, until a few minor details are worked out. Both will be held at the Radison Penn Harris in Camp Hill which proved to be an excellent venue. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:10:17 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] H6s There is a good HO scale drawing of the H6sb in the January 1974 issue of "Model Railroader" magazine. If you can't scrounge up a copy, I think MR offers a photocopy service for back issues. I also checked Model Railroader's Cyclopedia Volume I, Steam Locomotives, but there is nothing on the H6 class in there (it has H1, and H8-H9-H10). Jim Anderson Thorndale, PA sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 06:31:17 -0700 -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 5:35 AM Subject: [PRR] Convention Day Three ... Also for his L1 (do have the class right?). Close. It is class L1s. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:58:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three On Sun, 7 May 2000, Jerry Britton wrote: > I have heard the following rumors -- which I cannot confirm: > > H30 from Eastern Car Works > GG-1 from Life Like Proto 2000 I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's Train House. I wish! -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:50:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Kris, Jerry and All, I must say congratulations to Kris Kolar for his awards at the PRRT&HS annual convention! I knew he could do it and let this be a challenge to all PRR modelers! The Baldwin sharks (subject of the June issue of Model Railroader) and the L-1 (subject of a two part article in Jan and Feb Mainline Modeler) and his L-1 is still listed on the RPM Webpage at www.rpmrail.org and scroll to the bottom of the page. In his words his work is not perfect, but I guess it must be a lot closer to it than he realized. Remember, these are just starting efforts for Kris and I think you will see a lot more of his work in magazines in the future. Again, great effort Kris. I support you and encourage others to follow! Greg Martin PS ... can anyone tell us exactly what the awards were that Kris won? Jerry Britton writes... << At the dinner the awards were given out. Another of our own, Kris Kollar, took home two awards -- which he may not know about yet 'cause he wasn't there! One for his Baldwin freight sharks which appear in the current issue of Model Railroader. Also for his L 1 (do have the class right?). >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:20 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Two In a message dated 5/6/00 5:58:27 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Sunshine has out a new X-41 box. They had it on display in the silver Merchandise Service scheme. >> With that scheme, I assume it was the X41B single-door 50-footer, which is great news. Is he also offering the X41 double-door or X41A doubledoor with end doors? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:09:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars BIngo! There were also two others according to Beebe. The Amon G. Carter named for a Fort Worth newspaper man and the Adolphus Busch both of which were ridden by their namesake. Anybody know if that is true for the Colonel Lindbergh which was assigned to the St. Louis train? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Sunshine PRR X-41 kits Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:15:51 -0400 >With that scheme, I assume it was the X41B single-door 50-footer, which is >great news. Is he also offering the X41 double-door or X41A doubledoor with >end doors? > >Bob Zoeller Bob and all, Sunshine offers the following PRR X-41 kits: kit #51.1 X-41or X-41C double door, Youngstown, etched steel roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit #51.2 X-41A double door, Youngstown and end door, etched steel roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit #51.3 X41B single 7' door, post war lightweight Youngstown, metal roofwalk, white freight decals, circle keystone, $34 kit#51.4 X41B as above with Merchandise Service decals $34. Great looking cars, as usual from Sunshine! Jerry Breon > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:11:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three In a message dated 5/7/00 10:06:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, shadow@dementia.org writes: << I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's Train House. I wish! -D I met Mike Wolf at Trains N Things - North Canton, Ohio - Friday He denied this rumour, and that he was going into HO - BUT Mike is one cagey little guy AND he does have all the drawings and die making instructions for a Centipede, in his computers, so if you close your eyes - and wish REAL HARD - it just might come true By the way - his "O" scale model (and it is scale) is a thing of beauty four motors and four diesel smoke units - it'll pull your house down, but not to worry - the smoke units will drive you out of the basement - first. Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: [PRR] New Product Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 17:41:24 -0700 >From the InterMountain Dealer List of May 3, 2000. New Freight Car Kits Pennsylvania Railroad USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gondola Painted Box Car Red with White Lettering. These famous Pennsy cars carry the Keystone Herald. These kits are a very accurate representation of the real composite cars. They come equipped with real laser cut wood sides and Floors. These kits come in tweleve car numbers. Suggested Retail Price $17.95. Another new product by InterMountain/Reboxx is car weights for the ACF Type 27 Riveted 8,000 & 10,000 Gallon Tank Cars and the Composite Drop Bottom Gondola. Thought you would like to know. Randy Williamson R&S Rail Stuff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: [PRR] Fw: X41's Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:02:02 -0400 Walt wrote: "I bought one of the 51.3 cars and I believe the 51.4 was a little morein cost. I can't remember just how much, but I did talk with Mr. Sunshine about it. It was a dollar or two more, but the plane on was the one I wanted." Walt Stafa Walt is absolutely correct. My mistake. Sunshine kit #51.4 Merchandise Service scheme is $35.00 while the other three versions are $34.00. My apologies to everyone and thank you Walt for pointing this out. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 19:30:33 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] H6sb Drawings Hello list, In addition to the H6sb drawings in the January 1974 MR, they also appeared in the February 1961 MR on pages 52 and 53 (you could get the drawings through interlibrary loan or Kalmbach's article reprint service). The drawings are identical, but there are a few more prototype shots in the 1961 article. Pennsy Power I and III (and probably II as well, but I don't own a copy), Pennsy Steam: A to T and Pennsy Steam: A Second Look all have good photos. Hope this gets you started; what scale will your H6sb be? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 20:44:01 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR]HO Centipedes Rumor From: Jerry Britton On 5/7/00 9:58 AM, Derrick J Brashear at (shadow@dementia.org) wrote: > I heard neither of these, but one I heard was HO Centipede from Mike's > Train House. > Actually, I heard Centipedes from Miracle Castings. Of course, this is a real stretch given their reorg and late H15-44. However, the source tells me he recently supplied them with a whole bunch of materials. I cited the long standing issue of power trucks. He cited an existing unit from Alco. Don't suppose Pat wants to chime in on this one, huh? Can you at least deny it if it isn't true? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rick Schoch" Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:17:34 -0400 An O-scale Centipede? All I can say is WOW! I bet you need to restrict a few bridges with that baby... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:08:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention Day Three In a message dated 5/7/00 10:18:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rickstug@mindspring.com writes: << An O-scale Centipede? All I can say is WOW! I bet you need to restrict a few bridges with that baby... >> Hasten to add that I don't own one - but I know two guys here in Cleveland who have a pair each Guess that the secret is if you already have clearances for the J-1, S-2 T-1 or "Malleys" as these two do - you don't have to worry about the Baldwins On my "O" scale version of the PRR the H-6sb predominates and the "Big Engine" is an H-10 Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 09:02:44 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Pullman named cars Charles Lindbergh - The 3-2 observation on the Spirit of StLouis. One of the other cars named for living personalities was "Adolphus Busch". I don't recall the third. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > > According to Beebe there were only three Pullman cars named for living > people. One ran on the PRR. Can anybody guess the name? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 11:57:53 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp From: Jerry Britton The following is from Nick Kulp, who hosted one of the layout tours on the convention circuit: I just wanted to thank the folks in charge of the convention layout tours for making my first open house experience a pleasurable one. When I was asked to host one of the layout tours I had some issues to deal with. 1. My layout is nowhere near "complete" and not truly prototypically correct. 2. I live so far in the "boonies" that I must have sunshine pumped in. 3. I had no facilities for parking and people had to walk about a block, on a dark country road, to get to my house. 4. My railroad is in a small house, not one of the caliber shown in the magazines. 5. People would walk in, see the truly amature effort and leave disappointed. 6. (the worst) Gremlins would cause some major catastrophy and shut the railroad down. 7. No one would show up and my crew would kill me after I'd brow-beaten them into helping without a break for 3 months. As it turned out: 1. People showed up, about 65 on Friday and only 8 on Sunday according to my registry. 2. The railroad, crew, electronics, trackwork, motive power, and rolling stock. performed flawlessly. 3. The visitors showed more finesse and class even though the humidity and cramped quarters were brutal. 4. Everyone had a blast, guests and crew.5. I even had a particular visitor (you know who you are) arrive around 8:45PM Friday (with my blessing) and stay far beyond the "official" tour ending time. I enjoyed the opportunity to provide one-on-one conversation after hours. I met people from all over the country. All blessed with the same love for model railroading as my crew and me. I got lots of great ideas from suggestions. And I have made a promise to myself that if the PRRT&HS wants to use my layout for another tour, I will gladly accept the request. The tour gave me the incentive to take my layout to another level. Now the faulty switch going into the mine was no longer a "do it later" project. A more concentrated effort to add some cosmetic surgery to the layout aand make it's appearance better for viewing purposes. And other areas that needed work finally got attention. I want to salute the members that visited my home and thank them for the courteous manner they treated me and my home. I extended this invitation to everyone I could, when a visitor left the layout, and I extend it to members that I didn't have the pleasure of meeting or talking to on Friday night. If you are in my area, and want to visit my layout, you don't have to wait for a convention. Pick up the phone, or email me. I operate / work every Saturday night at 7:00PM until I throw the crew out. Thanks for making my first layout hosting a real success. Drop by and say hello. I'd love to have you visit. Regards, Nick Kulp President and hired lackey grade 3 of the Cornwall Railroad --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:17:02 -0500 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR "Standard" Railings I have a copy of a 1918 PRR Enginering print showing the Standard Pipe Railing, if you would like I could scan and Esend or send to someone who could post on a server Can reduce it to about 5 x 8inches. Contact me off list. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:45:06 +0100 I enjoyed reading these uplifting comments. Thank you. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: 08 May 2000 16:57 Subject: [PRR] Thank You From Nick Kulp > The following is from Nick Kulp, who hosted one of the layout tours on the > convention circuit: > > > > I just wanted to thank the folks in charge of the convention layout tours > for making my first open house experience a pleasurable one. When I was > asked to host one of the layout tours I had some issues to deal with. > > 1. My layout is nowhere near "complete" and not truly prototypically > correct. > 2. I live so far in the "boonies" that I must have sunshine pumped in. > 3. I had no facilities for parking and people had to walk about a block, on > a dark country road, to get to my house. > 4. My railroad is in a small house, not one of the caliber shown in the > magazines. > 5. People would walk in, see the truly amature effort and leave > disappointed. > 6. (the worst) Gremlins would cause some major catastrophy and shut the > railroad down. > 7. No one would show up and my crew would kill me after I'd brow-beaten > them into helping without a break for 3 months. > > As it turned out: > > 1. People showed up, about 65 on Friday and only 8 on Sunday according to > my registry. > 2. The railroad, crew, electronics, trackwork, motive power, and rolling > stock. performed flawlessly. > 3. The visitors showed more finesse and class even though the humidity and > cramped quarters were brutal. > 4. Everyone had a blast, guests and crew.5. I even had a particular visitor > (you know who you are) arrive around 8:45PM Friday (with my blessing) and > stay far beyond the "official" tour ending time. I enjoyed the opportunity > to provide one-on-one conversation after hours. > > I met people from all over the country. All blessed with the same love for > model railroading as my crew and me. I got lots of great ideas from > suggestions. And I have made a promise to myself that if the PRRT&HS wants > to use my layout for another tour, I will gladly accept the request. The > tour gave me the incentive to take my layout to another level. Now the > faulty switch going into the mine was no longer a "do it later" project. A > more concentrated effort to add some cosmetic surgery to the layout aand > make it's appearance better for viewing purposes. And other areas that > needed work finally got attention. > > I want to salute the members that visited my home and thank them for the > courteous manner they treated me and my home. I extended this invitation to > everyone I could, when a visitor left the layout, and I extend it to > members that I didn't have the pleasure of meeting or talking to on Friday > night. If you are in my area, and want to visit my layout, you don't have > to wait for a convention. Pick up the phone, or email me. I operate / work > every Saturday night at 7:00PM until I throw the crew out. > > Thanks for making my first layout hosting a real success. Drop by and say > hello. I'd love to have you visit. > > Regards, > Nick Kulp > President and hired lackey grade 3 of the Cornwall Railroad > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:01:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Convention/P85 Folks, Sorry I couldn't get out to Harrisburg...sounds like a pretty good event this year. How was the attendance compared to other years? The agenda and layout tours seemed like they'd have been a pretty good draw. I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:09:55 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 From: Jerry Britton On 5/8/00 9:01 PM, BPX29@aol.com at (BPX29@aol.com) wrote: > Sorry I couldn't get out to Harrisburg...sounds like a pretty good event this > year. How was the attendance compared to other years? The agenda and layout > tours seemed like they'd have been a pretty good draw. > I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle > Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but > where it stands I don't know. > regards, There were 350 some registrants. On par with last year. No mention of the ex-Middle Division P85 that I know of. Although Nick Seman was there and actually had good stock. I bought several sets of his new passenger car name sets. No more splicing! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:18:30 -0400 From: ERIC LAUTERBACH Subject: [PRR] Preserved Electrics Just got back from a very long car ride and saw some promising things with Pennsy Electrics. The GG1 at Green Bay looks like it is being primed to be painted. The GG1 at IRM has a very nice fresh paint job. An interesting note on this engine is that on the back cover of IRM's brochere there is a picture of the GG1 on their track that they run things on. Even the light is on and I think the pantagraph is up also. I didn't pick up the brochure until after we had left the museum, so I couldn't ask anyone at the museum. The only bad thing that I saw was the P5 at MOT. It is still rusting away at the back corner of a barn. The up side is that they are painting their engines and really making the place look a lot better. So hopefully in the near future the P5 will be painted. This is in sharp contrast to what the museum was like 8 or 9 years ago when many of the engines were not doing so well. Progress may be slower then we like, but at there is a lot of progress at the museum. Eric Lauterbach ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:16:36 -0700 After seeing a note about many keystone magazines available for sale at the convention, I wonder if anyone may have gotten an address or phone number of individuals selling them? I am looking for Keystone Volume 11 No. 4 December 1978 and am willing to pay any even remotely reasonable price. To be honest, I would be willing to pay even the slightly absurd amount! Thanks, Greg Stone PRRTHS member Special interest in the Renovo Yards Always looking for photos or info on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Greg, I don't know about this year (didn't go) but the one convention that I did attend (PGH 1996), Many back issues of the Keystone was available from the Society themselves. Now days I do not think their stock goes back as far as your request.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] thanks for kind comments Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:02:39 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just wanted to say thank you for the many kind comments I received on my = modeling projects, both electronically through the list and in person = while at the convention. Its encouraging to meet folks for the first = time and have favorable words said about one's efforts. Thanks again. However one of the biggest thrills of the weekend was that I got to = cruise around the streets near the convention in Ken Briers' perfectly = restored 1950 Ford F-1 pickup decked out as a PRR maintenance truck in = Tuscan Red and immaculately lettered with Pennsylvania Railroad. =20 Kris ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just wanted to say thank you for the many kind = comments I=20 received on my modeling projects, both electronically through the list = and in=20 person while at the convention. Its encouraging to meet folks for the = first=20 time and have favorable words said about one's efforts.  Thanks=20 again.
 
However one of the biggest thrills of the = weekend was=20 that I got to cruise around the streets near the convention in Ken = Briers'=20 perfectly restored 1950 Ford F-1 pickup decked out as a PRR maintenance = truck in=20 Tuscan Red and immaculately lettered with Pennsylvania Railroad. =20
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BFB949.E41CB120-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 00:42:16 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier >> I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt P" Subject: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:03:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking at the potential of modeling (to a degree) the portion of = the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a return loop east of AU = tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) and running = upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other than = commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone = published an article a few years back (got it) dealing with this = section. If they didn't, might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and = connect with another line to 'provide' north-south thru pullman service = into the steel city. Also, about six months ago I had posted a request for info on detailing = Walthers Blast Furnaces. Unfortunatly my computer had a cornfield meet = with my five year old and all files were lost. If those who responded = would re-contact me off line at walpru@stargate.net I would appreciate = it. Tkanks, Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking at the potential of = modeling (to a=20 degree) the portion of the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a = return=20 loop east of AU tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) = and=20 running upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other = than=20 commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone = published an=20 article a few years back (got it) dealing with this section. If they = didn't,=20 might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and connect with another line = to=20 'provide' north-south thru pullman service into the steel = city.
 
Also, about six months ago I had posted = a request=20 for info on detailing Walthers Blast Furnaces. Unfortunatly my computer = had a=20 cornfield meet with my five year old and all files were lost. If those = who=20 responded would re-contact me off line at walpru@stargate.net I would = appreciate=20 it.
 
Tkanks,
Walt P.
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB995.7AF97E20-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Convention/P85 Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:10:43 -0400 On D&S Hobbies' Railroad Telegraph in the Rumors section, it was mentioned that someone other than the Middle Division was resurrecting this model. No word on when and for how much. Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: KEMACPRR@aol.com [mailto:KEMACPRR@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:42 PM To: BPX29@aol.com Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that Middle Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, but where it stands I don't know. regards, Barry Peltier >> I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:21:13 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 Union Station Products has had P85b car sides in their catalog for quite some time now. Jerry is a dealer (and asleep at the switch ;-) ). Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > > On D&S Hobbies' Railroad Telegraph in the Rumors section, it was mentioned > that someone other than the Middle Division was resurrecting this model. No > word on when and for how much. > > Ted Andrews > > -----Original Message----- > From: KEMACPRR@aol.com [mailto:KEMACPRR@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:42 PM > To: BPX29@aol.com > Cc: PRR-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 > > In a message dated 00-05-08 21:06:06 EDT, you write: > > << I was wondering if there was any mention of the earstwhile P85 that > Middle > Division was once working on? i gather someone has picked up the project, > but > where it stands I don't know. > regards, > Barry Peltier > >> > I got a chance to talk with Nick about any new decal projects. He mentioned > > some new diesel amd steam sets in the works. I asked about the P-85 and he > said the molds have been sold to another party who intend to produce the > car. No idea on when or whom. At least the molds are now free of legal > problems and hopefully will be used in the near future. > > Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:49:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Convention/P85 From: Jerry Britton On 5/9/00 9:21 AM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > Union Station Products has had P85b car sides in their catalog for quite > some time now. Jerry is a dealer (and asleep at the switch ;-) ). > Nah, not asleep. I try not to monopolize the list with sales opportunities. That's why I have the "Merchandise Announce" list...which I just shamelessly plugged! Yes, Andy, Union Station Products has had the P85b for several years now. Slap it on an Eastern Car Works core kit and away you go. Still, I think it would be nice to have a complete P85b kit from one source. If I had to guess, I'd bet it is ECW that Middle Division sold the molds to. Given the quantities many modelers need, their price would right, whereas a Bethlehem Car Works kit, with brass sides, would prove too pricey. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. (Don't be scared of carriage returns;-) On Tue, 9 May 2000, Walt P wrote: > I am looking at the potential of modeling (to a degree) the portion of > the Monongahela Division, probably allowing for a return loop east of AU > tower (picking up compressed Kenny and Thompson yards) and running > upstream to ? Ok, fine. My question is, did any varnish, other than > commuter, run along this route in 1952? I am aware the Keystone > published an article a few years back (got it) dealing with this > section. If they didn't, might have to 'force' my line to upgrade and > connect with another line to 'provide' north-south thru pullman service > into the steel city. Not exactly what you're after, but in 1956 there was one commuter train per day in each direction. I may have another ETT in a few days from an earlier year and will look then. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:16:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] P85/ Combines Guys, Thanks for the replies on my P85 inquiry. I haven't tried the Union Station sides yet, but have one such down in my bottomless projects pile.(Not for the P85, however). Or did I sell the darn thing? Guess I'd lean toward the Brass Car Sides version, having a good supply of AHM lightweights available, but then again it's pretty makeshift as regards roof, ends and underbody. Like Jerry said, it'd be nice to have it all in one P85-specific kit. Still, a make shift car is surely better than none. Well, I'll stay tuned. Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:27:38 EDT Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Co. I have a Pittsburgh terminal area RR map - 1952. It shows the Unity Railways Co. interchanging with the PRR Plum Creek branch and B & LE at Unity Junction. Anybody have any additional information? Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 11:33:17 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P85/ Combines Years ago (1987?) I bought several bags of P70 kit parts from the dealer who bought out the inventory of Alco when E&B Valley bought the dies which are now used by ECW. This gave me lots of P70s and kitbash material since the parts bags were cheap. I built several P70fr's with single vestibules and an arch roof. I used the NE Scale Models wood roof. Is it still available? I also kitbashed a Cafe-coach Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Guys, > Thanks for the replies on my P85 inquiry. I haven't tried the Union Station sides yet, but have one such down in my bottomless projects pile.(Not for the P85, however). Or did I sell the darn thing? > Guess I'd lean toward the Brass Car Sides version, having a good supply of AHM lightweights available, but then again it's pretty makeshift as regards roof, ends and underbody. Like Jerry said, it'd be nice to have it all in one P85-specific kit. Still, a make shift car is surely better than none. Well, I'll stay tuned. > > Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. > Regards, > Barry Peltier > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:30:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P85/ Combines In a message dated 5/9/00 9:22:01 AM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << Oh, by the way, has anyone bashed around any arch roofs on the ECW PB70 combine? I'm wondering how such a roof, or a BCW version 'balloon', would work out, especially if using the wide-window panel from ECW's FAR P70 kit? That almost sounds like a good magazine article, come to think of it. >> I'm also wondering about a streamlined roof modernization of a Bachmann D78 diner as well, but I have had a P85 brass car side on the bottom of the pile for about 15 years at least, so I have a long way to go to get to it.:-). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:34:33 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! list members...welcome back to those who were fortunate enough to = attend the convention...I'll get there next year! For those of us who = might not have seen it...there are a couple of PRR related stories in = the Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside = cover of Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P = dock yard in Cleveland. Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR (and = other roads) on Lake Erie. Great article on page 41 on K4sa 612. = Probably everyone has seen these articles already...but check them out = if you haven't. Regards, Robert Holden PRRT&HS 5044 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello! list members...welcome back to those who were = fortunate=20 enough to attend the convention...I'll get there next year! For those of = us who=20 might not have seen it...there are a couple of PRR related stories in = the=20 Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside cover = of=20 Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P dock = yard in=20 Cleveland. Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR (and other roads) = on Lake=20 Erie. Great article on page 41 on K4sa 612. Probably everyone has seen = these=20 articles already...but check them out if you haven't. = Regards,
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      Robert=20 Holden
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;      PRRT&HS=20 5044
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFB9BB.4FAB1BE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 14:25:58 -0400 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Walt P wrote: > > did any varnish, other than > commuter, run along this route in 1952? Greetings to Walt and the List: I don't think you'll find any long-haul intercity service at any point in history on this line. Reason? Pittsburgh to Brownsville is/was only 54.5 miles and most passenger trains covered the distance in an hour and a half (the all-stops local took about 2:15). Going back in timetables through the 1930s, all of the service that I can find was daylight service. There was a name train, "The West Virginian," that ran through to Fairmont, W.Va., via the Monongahela Ry. south of Brownsville, but it, too, was a daylight train. Somewhere I think I read that it had a broiler-buffet car and maybe, maybe, early in its existence, a parlor. But no Pullmans of the type you're mentioning for 1952. Even that run, which had a total length of 122.3 miles, took just a little over four hours. PRR's Monongahela line wasn't an outlet to any other route or connecting railroad that could have been used by a longer-haul train serving a bigger market. By contrast, the Pittsburgh-Oil City-Buffalo overnight sleeper (269 miles) traveled over the branches (various names at various times in history) along the Allegheny River northeast of Pittsburgh. Hope this helps. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com Phil. 4:6-7 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Dan, Could it be also that the P&LE service from Pittsburgh and points west to Brownsville dictated the non-importance of more PRR Varnish down that line? 1 train per day may have been all that was required to fulfill the need of Passenger Service (be it a local or commuter) on the Mon. Div.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:29:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles In a message dated 5/9/00 1:36:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rholden@superpa.net writes: << there are a couple of PRR related stories in the Summer, 2000 issue of Classic Trains. Great picture on the inside cover of Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of the C&P dock yard in Cleveland. >> Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using but I like it tends to make the photos look even older and more nostalgic Dick Ross ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:13:48 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone Magazine WANTED! Greg - You could try Charlie Horan. He's gone to the Timonia show and he has a lot of old magazines. His email is - charliehoran@aol.com Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: [PRR] steel in the Pittsburgh area Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:36:34 -0700 Hi gang, For all those that have been following this thread, I found out some more interesting info this week. Thanks to those that contributed at the PRRT&HS convention Fri and Sat! There were a string of iron and steel-related industries on the Monongahela River on the South Side of Pittsburgh (opposite downtown), between Liberty Bridge on the west and Jones & Laughlin Open Hearth #4 on the east. Of course, J&L is best known. Just east of the Pittsburgh Terminal Warehouse and Transfer (between 3rd & 4th), was Republic Steel's Dilworth-Porter Division (between 4th and 6th). They were solely a manufacturer of railroad spikes and tie plates. Needless to say, as the railroads declined in the 50's, and lines were ripped up (providing a lot of good used spikes and tie plates), this facility probably didn't have a lot of work! This was a medium sized operation, with forges, plate mills, etc. I don't know when they ceased operations. Anyone? Between 6th and 8th was the A.M. Byers Co. They manufactured wrought iron pipe. This place had welding mills, galvanizing shops, pattern cutting shops, etc. I also don't know when they ceased operations. Anyone? Between 9th and 10th (10th St Bridge) was Mackintosh-Hemphill Co. Garrison Plant. I don't know what they made, but they had a foundry, machine shops, pattern storage, etc. on-site. Also a good sized facility. Anyone got any ideas? Between 10th and 15th was Oliver Iron & Steel. They made nuts, bolts, hardware & wire. They had heat treating, nuts & rivet making, tapping, forges, galvanizing & pickling, etc. on-site. They supposedly went out of business in 1959. They were also supposedly the owners of the Allegheny & South Side Railroad until they went out of business. I don't know if anyone bought/continued this operation afterward, but it was not abandoned. The RR was certainly not abandoned until later, but is now only weeds between the P&LE/CSX tracks anfd the property lines of others. Some of the buildings still exist doing other business. Does anyone known any more? Between 19th and 21st was Levison Steel Co.'s Structural Iron Works. They had structural shopsd at this site. I don't know exactly what was made at this facility, but finished products were shipped from here. Anyone know more? The freight generated in this area was interchanged with both PRR via the Whitehall Branch and 30th St yard, and P&LE via their interchanges with A&SS. This fascinating area is largely redeveloped for other uses, including condos, but some of the original buildings remain. You can still get a feel for it by the size of some of the structures. It would be fascinating to know more! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] convention info O scale Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:11:24 -0700 Did anyone see anything new offered in O scale? Did Steve Grybowski have his crown trucks available yet? - Greg Stone member PRRTHS Special interest Renovo Yards always seeking photos etc. of the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:05:01 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] H6s Just want to say thanks to all the folks who sent me sources, both on and off list. The model will be in HO and bear LIRR markings. Elliot ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: 9 May 00 23:02:24 EDT From: "PETER TYRRELL JR." Subject: [PRR] Newtown Square PRR Freight Station The Old 1896 PRR Freight station was moved west about 2 miles to a site west of PA 252, which was the Drexel University's Lodge, now township property. The station will be restored by the Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society. This building we are told is the oldest PRR fright station still standing. It is shame that the station had to be moved from it's original location. Phil Klaus, PRRTH&S member, was present this morning when the move started. Phil is the author of the High Line Published story on the Newtown Square Branch. As the station pulled away Phil remarked, as he looked over the old site which was the end of the branch line, where once upon a time there was the passenger station, the freight station, a turntable and lumber supply yard, "just like it was never here". Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. Newtown Square Historical Preservation Society PRR Technical and Historic Society ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigHookX45@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:00:25 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Preserved Electrics In a message dated 00-05-08 22:21:01 EDT, you write: > The only bad thing that I saw was the P5 at MOT. It is still rusting > away at the back corner of a barn. The up side is that they are painting > their engines and really making the place look a lot better. So > hopefully in the near future the P5 will be painted. This is in sharp > contrast to what the museum was like 8 or 9 years ago when many of the > engines were not doing so well. Progress may be slower then we like, but > at there is a lot of progress at the museum. If you want to see the P5 painted real quick, just start getting some people interested in wanting to see it returned to Strasburg because its not being cared for at MOT, and hocus pocus, the P5 will be repainted in a flash! Rick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt P" Subject: [PRR] A M Byers Co. Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:35:48 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eldon & List, A M Byers had a plant with a bessemer converter just outside of = Ambridge, PA , right next to the Economy Yard. This facility closed as = memory serves around 1964. The converter ended up at Station Square. = Loved going past at night as the converter was 'aimed' at Duss Ave = (approx 300' away) and scared the living out of me and my kid brother. = Shame I was to young to take pictures. Walt ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eldon & List,
A M Byers had a plant with a bessemer = converter=20 just outside of Ambridge, PA , right next to the Economy Yard. This = facility=20 closed as memory serves around 1964. The converter ended up at Station = Square.=20 Loved going past at night as the converter was 'aimed' at Duss Ave = (approx 300'=20 away) and scared the living out of me and my kid brother. Shame I was to = young=20 to take pictures.
 
Walt
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFBA49.FA6894C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:46:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Stanley E Yoder Subject: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles Excerpts from mail: 10-May-100 PRR-Talk Digest - 05/10/00 by "PRR-Talk"@dsop.com > Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? > Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using = > In a printed magazine, the reproduced color is purely a matter of the ink(s) used in the press. And in the strictly photographic domain, sepia (or other) toning is part of the process of making a print, and is not due to the negative (silver grains in suspension, deposited on a substrate.) Hope this helps, Stan Yoder Pittsburgh ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:00:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles From: Jerry Britton On 5/10/00 8:46 AM, Stanley E Yoder (syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > Excerpts from mail: 10-May-100 PRR-Talk Digest - 05/10/00 by > "PRR-Talk"@dsop.com >> Have you noticed the sepia tones they are using to print B&W photos? >> Don't know if it's from the negatives - or the process that they are using = >> > In a printed magazine, the reproduced color is purely a matter of the > ink(s) used in the press. And in the strictly photographic domain, sepia > (or other) toning is part of the process of making a print, and is not > due to the negative (silver grains in suspension, deposited on a > substrate.) > In terms of "traditional" printing, the above is true. But in the modern world of computerized publishing, the sepia effect can, and often is, added electronically. Sometimes it is done via an effect with the standard CMYK color seperations, but more commonly it is done with an additional layer, as is often the case with metalic colors for effect. Sorry, guess I just furthered a slightly off-topic thread. Oops! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] B-70 Question Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:43:10 -0400 PRR-Talk: Did the B-70 have brakewheels on both ends of the car or just on one end? Thank you in advance for any direction that you can provide. Ted Andrews ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Paul Stumpff Subject: RE: [PRR] Station Height Recomendation Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:38:39 -0400 Peter: I do not know if anyone responded to your inquiry about platform height and distance, but here goes from "..M of W Plans of Pennsylvania RR". Vertical distance is from top of rail to top of platform; horizonal distance is from inside of rail to edge of platform. Two plans are listed,one from June,1902, other is Dec. 1905. Freight platforms [1902 only lists one horizontal distance]: for freight & transfer platforms on sidings: vertical= 3'-5"; horizonal = 3'-9"; 1905 added for Main Running tracks: vertical = 3'-5"; horizontal = 6'-0" High Passenger Platforms [1905 only]: vertical = 3"-10"; horizontal = 3'- 2-3/4" Low Passenger Platforms: vertical = 6"; horizontal = 2'-6" Low Passenger Platforms [third rail electrification,1905 only]: vertical = 7-7/8"; horizontal to platform = 2'-10"; horizontal to third rail cover = 2'-1-1/4" All horizontal distances for tangent track; increase by 1 inch for each degree of curvature; high passenger platorms were not to be built for any curve exceeding 1deg 40 min. All platforms have a slope towards track at 1/4" per foot. Any incline built at end of platform was at a 4 to 1 slope. Paul Stumpff; Geneva, Ohio [formerly Greenville, PA & Niles, Ohio] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:45:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Hello all, My search for GG-1 sounds for a Soundtraxx DCC Decoder has progressed, (thanks Jerry!!), and it looks like we only need the sound of the traction motor blowers... Dumb question...where could one obtain these sounds TODAY? Would a "Swedish Meatball" (Amtrak AEM-7) be an acceptable "stand-in"? Is there a preserved, running, electric somewhere that might be a better source? Does anyone have a good analog recording of these sounds from a GG-1 that they are willing to share? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:22:22 -0400 Subject: [PRR] HO Modular - Wiring Proposal From: Jerry Britton In reviewing our Standards (on the web site), I see that we actually did (as PRRMO) finalize what standard connectors we use for the power bus (Radio Shack part numbers provided), their orientation, male/female, wire gauge, etc. We also did define that each main line track be independent of the others, so 3/4 keep running in the event of the short. The Digitrax PM4 I will be providing will eliminate the need for separate boosters for each bus. No further discussion should be needed to "get power to the track". We also defined that each module have it's own power strip, with a cord extending at least three feet beyond the end of the module. Fine. Last, but not least, we need a control bus. I propose that each module have a Digitrax UP3 (Universal Panel) on the fascia at the midpoint of the module. Individual builders shall have the option of locating one on both sides of the module. In addition, each module shall include an 8' length of control bus wire. This will enable them to connect their UP3 to the next module...and on down the line. Did I miss anything? Also, since PRRMO merged into the Cyber Division, we didn't automatically carry over the names of the participants. Everyone on the Cyber-Talk list is welcome to have input, but let Bruce or I know if you actually plan to participate. We only want to list MEMBERS WITH MODULES on the web site. With that in mind, Carl, are you still doing two corner modules and, if so, what will they represent? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:09:03 -0400 Subject: SORRY! Re: [PRR] HO Modular - Wiring Proposal From: Jerry Britton Sorry about this...Bruce Smith pointed out that I sent it to the wrong list. Should have gone to the Cyber Division list. -- An embarrassed listmaster On 5/10/00 1:22 PM, Jerry Britton (jerry@pennsyrr.com) wrote: > In reviewing our Standards (on the web site), I see that we actually did (as > PRRMO) finalize what standard connectors we use for the power bus (Radio > Shack part numbers provided), their orientation, male/female, wire gauge, --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Bruce and list. There was a tape made of the last RPO run in the cab of 4935 I think. Would this be of any help? Will try to locate mine and listen. Let me know. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:30:29 -0400 From: Christopher Chany Subject: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Listers, Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if they are still in business. Thanks in advance. Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:52:33 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany Chris, I have been using Poly Scale PRR Tuscan.Looks like a clean but aged car to me.For a freasher look just add some of there gloss. Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:38:05 -0400 From: Reed Kosmal Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Bud, The Unity Railways was a 4 1/2 mile long railroad between Consolaated Coal Co's Renton Mine. Reed Kosmal I have a Pittsburgh terminal area RR map - 1952. It shows the Unity Railways Co. interchanging with the PRR Plum Creek branch and B & LE at Unity Junction. Anybody have any additional information? Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:03:42 -0400 From: Reed Kosmal Subject: [PRR] Unity Railways Once again please! Bud, The Unity Railways was a 4-½ long railroad that ran between Consolidated Company’s Renton Mine and Unity Junction. The Unity Railway had had two different 2-8-0 locomotives and later a diesel before going out of business when the mine closed for while. When the mine reopened the tracks were leased to the B&LE. It closed again about ten or so years ago and the tracks were removed a few years later. Reed Kosmal ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:19:18 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Chris, I've built two. They are the only modernized P70 available in HO. How I wish some plastic pusher would do a P70GS for daytime service or a P70K fro overnite. The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor casting. Of course you should ignore their underbody suggestions. The P70FAR's had the trademark ice activated PRR underbody with large ice bunkers and a half round water tank. Get some fotos to work from. Some of the ECW parts are useful, certainly some NE Rail parts are useful, but its not hard to scratch build much of the pieces you need. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org ================================================== Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update and questions?????? Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:41:07 -0400 Dear List: The kitbash project for the B60/B70 baggage car is well underway. Two cars are finished and two more are still under construction. All need to be painted and lettered. The scale drawing is 75% complete. I want to build a diorama, complete with overhead wire, for the model photography. Many thanks to Kieth Retterer, 1442 East Bank Dr., Marietta, GA 30068 for his beautiful photos of the B60, as built, inside and out! Kieth has gone out of his way to help me on this project. I am preparing a short written history to accompany the scale drawing. The only detailed information I have found so far, is a copy of a catalog from the Pressed Steel Car Co. (aparently the manufacturer) describing this car when new. (this catalog is from Kieth's collection, too) Unfortunately, the information is all in French. I did ask a French speaking friend to translate. I don't speak or read more than a handful of words of French but I think the information contained in the catalog are all technical specifications. I need to know how many cars were made, when they were made, who made them and what their number range is. Does someone have a registry that differentiates between B60 and B60b numbers? Does anyone know of resources concerning the early history of this car? Was it developed in juxtaposition with the P70 steel passenger cars project for use in the New York area, under the rivers, to meet the fire code? Do the two histories (P70 - B60) dovetail? (R60? too?) The RR museum of PA has the first PRR steel coach (P58), 1651, restored and on display. From the gangway on the second floor, I noticed a pipe/wire/conduit? running down the middle of the clerestory roof, on the very top. The builder's photo of the B60 vaugely hints at a similar arraingement on the roof betweeen the vents. Does anyone know what this wire/pipe/conduit is for? I have several photos (on JPG) of the 4 wheel, rivited frame trucks under the original 1651, the same trucks as shown on the B60's builder's photo. In Pensy Power III, there are several pix of this truck: P 369 top B60 5518; P 371 bottom R60, and P376 top P58 1651. Does anyone know the what the specific class of truck this is? I'll be glad to forward a JPG pix of it for your identification if the photos in PP3 aren't clear enough. The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. Thanks for your help. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update and questions?????? Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:42:59 -0400 Dear List: The kitbash project for the B60/B70 baggage car is well underway. Two cars are finished and two more are still under construction. All need to be painted and lettered. The scale drawing is 75% complete. I want to build a diorama, complete with overhead wire, for the model photography. Many thanks to Kieth Retterer, 1442 East Bank Dr., Marietta, GA 30068 for his beautiful photos of the B60, as built, inside and out! Kieth has gone out of his way to help me on this project. I am preparing a short written history to accompany the scale drawing. The only detailed information I have found so far, is a copy of a catalog from the Pressed Steel Car Co. (aparently the manufacturer) describing this car when new. (this catalog is from Kieth's collection, too) Unfortunately, the information is all in French. I did ask a French speaking friend to translate. I don't speak or read more than a handful of words of French but I think the information contained in the catalog are all technical specifications. I need to know how many cars were made, when they were made, who made them and what their number range is. Does someone have a registry that differentiates between B60 and B60b numbers? Does anyone know of resources concerning the early history of this car? Was it developed in juxtaposition with the P70 steel passenger cars project for use in the New York area, under the rivers, to meet the fire code? Do the two histories (P70 - B60) dovetail? (R60? too?) The RR museum of PA has the first PRR steel coach (P58), 1651, restored and on display. From the gangway on the second floor, I noticed a pipe/wire/conduit? running down the middle of the clerestory roof, on the very top. The builder's photo of the B60 vaugely hints at a similar arraingement on the roof betweeen the vents. Does anyone know what this wire/pipe/conduit is for? I have several photos (on JPG) of the 4 wheel, rivited frame trucks under the original 1651, the same trucks as shown on the B60's builder's photo. In Pensy Power III, there are several pix of this truck: P 369 top B60 5518; P 371 bottom R60, and P376 top P58 1651. Does anyone know the what the specific class of truck this is? I'll be glad to forward a JPG pix of it for your identification if the photos in PP3 aren't clear enough. The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. Thanks for your help. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:42:21 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Classic Trains Articles [PRR] "rholden" wrote on 5/9/00 5:34 pm: > [ ... ] Great picture on the inside cover of >Pennsy Sharknose diesels pulling an ore train out of >the C&P dock yard in Cleveland. I have some doubts that it's "pulling"; it's at a lube rack, there's somebody who might be lubing the loco, and I don't think that the headlight is on. Nice shot, though! >Also, article on page 22, featuring the PRR >(and other roads) on Lake Erie. Lots of great shots of foreign hoppers on PRR tracks, and (on pg 28) a pic of a solitary PRR hopper in the NYC yard! Things were never as simple as modellers make them! l especially like the story behind the pic on pg 29 (PRR power pulling C&O hoppers on NYC tracks). Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:01:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach In a message dated 5/11/00 7:43:20 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor casting. >> I have long used brass square channel for straightening these resin or other plastic flat kit floors. Precludes a totally realistic interior, but has the double benefit of adding a little weight low. I use the Plastruct variety for squaring up corners and straightening sides, but prefer the greater rigidity of the brass for a straight floor which is critical to operation. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:19:25 -0400 Richard,Chris, and the List: How about Scalecoat II? I have never painted a Pennsy passenger car but I am going to paint some old Bachmann P-70's that I have. I think that the Scalecoat is close but then most Pennsy paints are in the ballpark. Also, I will be decaling those P-70's with some Champ decals. My 2 cents worth Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: Richard Campbell [mailto:pennsyneil@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 6:53 PM To: no-soup-4-you@worldnet.att.net Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Christopher Chany wrote: > > Listers, > > Bought an Eastern Car Works P-70FAR Coach kit from Jerry's table(if this > were the old Steve Allen Show (sound of cash register) for the shameless > plug) at the PRRT&HS meeting last weekend. I am looking for any > pitfalls to construction and suggestions for the best paint to use for > the body. I've use Accupaint PRR Passenger Maroon but am not sure if > they are still in business. > > Thanks in advance. > > Chris Chany Chris, I have been using Poly Scale PRR Tuscan.Looks like a clean but aged car to me.For a freasher look just add some of there gloss. Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:27:52 EDT Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Articles In a message dated 5/11/00 8:02:19 AM Central Daylight Time, dennis@bbn.com writes: << Things were never as simple as modellers make them! l especially like the story behind the pic on pg 29 (PRR power pulling C&O hoppers on NYC tracks). >> I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a shark AA set hauling a train. I realize this isn't the motive power list, but I seem to recall ( to make a modeler's simplification) that a diesel could start a train it couldn't run beyond a very low speed and a steamer could run at speed a train it couldn't start without help. Apparently speed wasn't critical to the ore trains. Anyway, it gives us modelers some flexibility and variety as to motive power assignment. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:21:07 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FAR Coach Recently I've taken to using solid brass floors on all my "flat kit" models. I've done this on both some ECW P70s and on a series of B60s I am currently building. I use 1/32 bras cut to 1.25 inches wide. I use 1/8 inch plastic channel back-to-back for the center sill. It gives the cars a flat floor, a nice weight, and a low center of gravity. Super glue does a fine job of adhesion. I started with brass floors years ago when building Walthers old heavyweights. I would solder the brass floor, the tinplated sides, and the cast soft metal ends together. Those cars are still running with no warp and no falling apart over the years, as contrasted to the ones built with the wooden floors, held together with "Goo". Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 5/11/00 7:43:20 AM Central Daylight Time, > asmiller@mitre.org writes: > > << The only thing to be wary of is getting the body straight. The > slightest inconsistency in gluing the sides and ends to the floor will > produce a twisted body which, however subtle in appearance, will never > track right. This can often be caused by any inherent warp in the floor > casting. >> > > I have long used brass square channel for straightening these resin or other > plastic flat kit floors. Precludes a totally realistic interior, but has the > double benefit of adding a little weight low. I use the Plastruct variety > for squaring up corners and straightening sides, but prefer the greater > rigidity of the brass for a straight floor which is critical to operation. > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:08:46 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. OK, so anyone out there with a GG-1 manual know what sort of current/voltage these babies draw (the traction motor blower, NOT the GG-1)? Bzzzt Bzzzzt! Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:37:14 -0400 Gary Mittner wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: [PRR] Who Built Which GG1s? From: "Gary Mittner" Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Rick, List, I just recieved this incoming email from a "reader" of PRR-Talk. This is a viewpoint on your question. (No snips or editing) Gary: "For reasons far too complex to explain, I can read the PRR postings but can't reply so I will write to you and you can forward to the list if you choose. The various GG-1 groups were built by GE, Baldwin, Altoona, Westinghouse etc. as listed in the various books on the subject. Other than the very first group assembled in Erie, I believe final assembly to just about all the rest was done in Altoona with carbodies and or running gear coming from Baldwin. But the real info I wish to impart is that which I learned while working at Erie GE. The Gs were built in the days prior to the big anti-trust suit against GE and Westinghouse over price fixing. Hence, if GE and Westinghouse each had say 50% of this or that relay, the two companies would trade off the orders and GE would build 100% of a certain relay but put Westinghouse badge plates on 50% of the product. Westinghouse would reciprocate by putting GE badge plates on the stuff they built." (end email) This was from an unknown author!..........Gary Hi Gary: The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and perhaps even today. Sometimes customers complain when they learn about it. For example, Chevrolet engines in Buick automobiles caused a big fuss. In the appliance industry a few years ago, nobody made a complete line. Westinghouse used Tecumseh and Whirlpool compressors in certain size refrigerators, freezers, and room air conditioners. They also made compressors for competitors When the side by side refrigerator /freezers first came out, I believe Amana was the only one making them and applied their competitors nameplates to them, etc, etc, and etc. And that was after the price fixing scandal. Apparently it was legal, because the companies were very sensitive o any impropriety. P.S. I'm a little behind in PRR-Talk Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Carl Izzo" Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/27/00 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:00:59 -0400 Steve wrote: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: PRR car plates From: Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 01:59:47 EDT Greetings all, At an antique store, I saw an oval cast plate (approx 6" long) with "Pennsylvania" on top half and a number stamped in lower half. Were these used to ID rolling stock?? Around what time frame where these used?? Any info would be appreciated. The people at this store had no info on it. Thanks in advance Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Steve: You probably saw a PRR tool tag which was used on pieces of machinery to show ownership. I have three of them for sale: Two 4 inch oval PRR tags and one 3 inch PCC&StL. The latter is a rare one. Anyone intereted contact me privately. Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:31:18 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers Bruce & Jerry.Recording was by " Custom Steam Productions, Ltd." 30 Jolen Drive, Hillsdale, NJ 07642 back on 5-15-1977. The 4935 recordings were done by Marc S. Balkin. Bill Ritter recorded the speeches. I listened to the tape but can not pick out the traction blower noise from the rest of the cab noise. Karl Zimmerman made a speech at this dedication, maybe he can shed some light on your project. Sorry I can not be of more help. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:08:43 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 In a message dated 5/11/00 3:44:14 PM Central Daylight Time, CPIZZO@worldnet.att.net writes: << The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and perhaps even today. >> A little offtopic,but private labeling has been and is widespread. I have been on purchasing and selling end for years in the electrical and electronics industries. Nothing wrong with it. An amusing example I recall was a friend in the 70s who was a rabid Ford fan and agonized before buying a Pontiac wagon. Bought it with standard transmission and then found it had a Ford transmission (Ford had long since quit making standard transmissions for that size engine). For a while, the North Coast and Wangrow people cross-labeled, though that is decreasing (to get this back closer to topic :-). Perfectly legitimate, ethical, and legal. Nothing to do with the pricefixing in the electical industry, where my alma mater Allis-Chalmers (before my time) was also a participant. (AC supplied some of the B1 electrics, just to satisfy the listmeister for PRR content :-)) Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:10:50 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 04/20/00 Carl and all, Some years ago I learned why this was so. At one time there was two suppliers of air brake equipment to the railroads, Wabco (Westinghouse) and New York Brake. These two manufacturers differed ONLY in their different logos, but each produced their own components. Since one company might only deal with, say New York, they would stock their parts. But often they had to repair cars with components from Wabco. These parts HAD to be totally interchangeable, and they therefore were. I suspect that this was also true of equipment suppliers, what one would produce, another had to be compatable with. Bill Daniels Carl Izzo wrote: > > Hi Gary: > > The aforementioned practice is not unusual. It was still done recently and > perhaps even today. Sometimes customers complain when they learn about it. > For example, Chevrolet engines in Buick automobiles caused a big fuss. In > the appliance industry a few years ago, nobody made a complete line. > Westinghouse used Tecumseh and Whirlpool compressors in certain size > refrigerators, freezers, and room air conditioners. They also made > compressors for competitors > > When the side by side refrigerator /freezers first came out, I believe Amana > was the only one making them and applied their competitors nameplates to > them, etc, etc, and etc. And that was after the price fixing scandal. > Apparently it was legal, because the companies were very sensitive o any > impropriety. > > P.S. I'm a little behind in PRR-Talk > > Carl P. Izzo ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 20:12:40 -0500 Checking the January 1930 Official Guide, the closest to Pullman service on the Mon branch was a train that included a parlor car and a cafe coach. It ran all the way through to Fairmont on the Monongahela RR. Regards, Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Cupper To: Walt P Cc: PRR Talk Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Traffic along Monongahela Division. > Walt P wrote: > > > > did any varnish, other than > > commuter, run along this route in 1952? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:41:02 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Model Manufacturer Request For Help From: Jerry Britton A model manufacturer has contacted me for assistance. If you can help, please contact me off-list. Folks, please help if you can...this is the only way we can make things happen. Items requested would be for short-term loan. This manufacturer needs: 1. PRR lettering diagrams for the alphabet they used on the letterboard and for car names/numbers would be helpful. 2. Good photos of 12-1's, 3416 parlor cars, 10 section obs, or University Series (12-2 I think) cars would be helpful. My own question: Is the 3416 parlor the 28-1? 3. Also, if you can find a lettering diagram for REA 6100 series reefers.... Please don't ask me who the manufacturer is. I am under non-disclosure. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:27:36 EDT Subject: [PRR] F7's on Panhandle Line Running today on Lines West's Panhandle Line from the Dennison, Ohio Depot are a pair of F7's painted in PRR "red". One has the big lifting lugs on the nose and could possibly be of PRR heritage. The other does not. Unfortunately it is not lettered PRR. It is lettered "Ohio Central". Dennis Sautters, PRRT&HS #1974 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigHookX45@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:08:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] F7's on Panhandle Line Former Gettsysburg RR units. The one with the lugs is an ex Milwaukee Road unit. Rick Rowlands ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:10:34 -0400 Subject: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic From: Jerry Britton Reiterating the sentiments expressed in the "1999 Annual PRR-Talk Needs Assessment Survey", attendees at the PRRT&HS convention also expressed the desire for a quality plastic R-50b. Rail Classics had a huge success with their brass model from last year. Now Bethlehem Car Works is considering one with brass sides. However, that'll likely put the price in the $50-60 range per car, unpainted/unlettered. What I'd like to see is Red Caboose come out with a kit comparable to their excellent X-29's. These kits, pre-painted, pre-lettered, and with all their separate grabs and details, look like brass when complete. And, at $14-16 per car, one can afford a fleet! I spoke at some length about this with my Red Caboose rep. He will pass my interest along to Bill, the owner. I encourage any of you who may be interested to cite your interest by e-mailing them at "stacktalk@aol.com" (the address from their web site). If not Red Caboose, I'd like to see Bowser do it. Bowser makes cars acceptable for fleets, but so many choose to file off all the grabs and redo them anyway. Why not get Red Caboose to do it right first? P.S. I suppose InterMountain would also be a possibility. Whoever does it first will certainly be rewarded! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 08:41:24 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Hi List, While going thur my projects to finish box I came across a N-8 kitbash from the old Tyco caboose. After rereading the Information in the 2 Model Railroader's I see a giant lack of prototype information about this class. What I am looking for are some underbody drawings and maybe the location of some of these cabins. Thanks Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] [AD] BP-20 / Miracle Castings Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:27:22 -0400 We have received a shipment of BP20 A units from Miracle Castings. They are alive and doing well. Dennis mailto: Dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 (732) 271-0800 Voice (732) 271-0805 FAX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:14:24 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic Jerry, list, Add me to the list of those needing a fleet of R50s. I would probably buy only one if the price is in the $50-60 range (by my calculus, this is 2.5 P70FBRs). I remember in recent list traffic that Sunshine was considering a resin R50; have you or anyone heard anything about this. I would dearly love to see this car in plastic, but I'm not sure the market would bear it. It's true that the R50s roamed the country, but many non-PRR modellers may not realize this. While we PRR modellers are a large market relative to the hobby, we may not be large enough to make this car practical in plastic. I wish it were so, though. Then again, Bowser's N5/N5c cabin cars did well, and they're a primarily PRR cabin car (let us not mention the dreaded PC or Conrail). Here's hoping we get affordable R50s one way or another! Doug Jerry Britton wrote: > Reiterating the sentiments expressed in the "1999 Annual PRR-Talk Needs > Assessment Survey", attendees at the PRRT&HS convention also expressed the > desire for a quality plastic R-50b. > > Rail Classics had a huge success with their brass model from last year. Now > Bethlehem Car Works is considering one with brass sides. However, that'll > likely put the price in the $50-60 range per car, unpainted/unlettered. > > What I'd like to see is Red Caboose come out with a kit comparable to their > excellent X-29's. These kits, pre-painted, pre-lettered, and with all their > separate grabs and details, look like brass when complete. And, at $14-16 > per car, one can afford a fleet! > > I spoke at some length about this with my Red Caboose rep. He will pass my > interest along to Bill, the owner. > > I encourage any of you who may be interested to cite your interest by > e-mailing them at "stacktalk@aol.com" (the address from their web site). > > If not Red Caboose, I'd like to see Bowser do it. Bowser makes cars > acceptable for fleets, but so many choose to file off all the grabs and redo > them anyway. Why not get Red Caboose to do it right first? > > P.S. I suppose InterMountain would also be a possibility. Whoever does it > first will certainly be rewarded! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:20:17 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Richard, list, I've kitbashed 2 N8s per the April 82 MR and the correction in the November 82 MR. I've never seen underbody drawings. However, some really good photos are in Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Island Railroads, published by NJ International. You can probably get this book through Interlibrary loan. As far as surviving N8 cabin cars go, George Pitz, a PRRT&HS member has an N8. A few years back he wrote regularly to the Keystone about the trials and tribulations he encountered while restoring it, including some photos of brake gear. My issues are in storage, but someone else may know the exact issues. Good luck with your cabin cars! I did one in the 1954 shadow keystone scheme, and later, I did another in the 1950 scheme (as delivered). Both came out pretty well. I had to scratchbuild the crash beams on my first cabin; for my second, I used the Bowser crash beams from their N5/N5c (my first kitbash predated the Bowser N5c release). I also used the Bowser Antenna set (you'll need 2 for your N8). Doug Richard Campbell wrote: > Hi List, > While going thur my projects to finish box I came across a N-8 kitbash > > from the old Tyco caboose. After rereading the Information in the 2 > > Model Railroader's I see a giant lack of prototype information about > > this class. > > What I am looking for are some underbody drawings and maybe the > > location of some of these cabins. > > Thanks > > Neil Campbell > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Classic Trains Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:12:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, List & Everyone. Can someone fill me in on some further knowledge about the picture = on the inside cover of the Summer issue of Classic Trains. One member = indicated that this train was on the 'lube' track. Anyone want to = explain what that was...and why this train would have had to be there?=20 Regards, All...Bob Holden PRR&&HS # 5044 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry, List & Everyone.
    Can someone fill me in on some further knowledge = about=20 the picture on the inside cover of the Summer issue of Classic Trains. = One=20 member indicated that this train was on the 'lube' track. Anyone want to = explain=20 what that was...and why this train would have had to be there?
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 Regards, All...Bob Holden
           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;   =20 PRR&&HS # 5044
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFBD06.D6F81820-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] PRR N8 info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:49:04 -0700 One possible way to get photos or info on underbody details is to contact brass importers and ask where they got their information. Existing N8 cabooses: the individual who sells Penn Valley Pictures has an N8 caboose which he recently restored. He sent me a calender with a photo of it. He is also connected (?owner/ part owner?) with several of the short lines in central Pa. One is the North Shore railroad that passes by the Lewistown Station. Another is travels between Northumberland and Danville, Pa. A recent Railpace covered these lines. He would probably be able to help you out. There is an internet site that covers several cabooses being rebuilt by and individual for display. One of these is an N8. You might try a search engine for it. I will try later if I come across it I will post the address. --Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards Always seeking info on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] N8 caboose info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:10:23 -0700 Check out this site: http://crcaboose.railfan.net. It has alot on cabooses of conrail including a drawing of the interior, a side view, and end view. Also on the site, photos of N8 s and others as well as references of articles on the N8 s, addresses of people who own cabooses. I think this would be a good place to start. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest in Renovo Yards Always looking for info on the Renovo Yards P.S. I have some photos of a conrail N8 that was at Renovo if you are in need. I will have to look but I don't believe it shows underbody well. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] PRR-Baltimore Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 22:47:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Ken, Ditto on Baltimore. Grew up there. Remember the PRR very well. = Our house faced the Northern Central. We lived so close to the = Pennsy...I thought the B & O was a foreign road...they were two blocks = down the street! Got to Enola twice, maybe three times a year as a kid = in the early fifties, visiting family. The B & O actually went under our = elementary school connecting to Mt.Royal station...I can still feel our = playground shaking! I'd be very interested in your progress in modeling = the PRR in Baltimore. I'm just sorry I didn't take pictures...there was = so much to see in Baltimore! Regards, Bob Holden, PRRT&HS 5044. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! Ken, Ditto on Baltimore. Grew up there. Remember = the PRR=20 very well. Our house faced the Northern Central. We lived so close to = the=20 Pennsy...I thought the B & O was a foreign road...they were two = blocks down=20 the street! Got to Enola twice, maybe three times a year as a kid in the = early=20 fifties, visiting family. The B & O actually went under our = elementary=20 school connecting to Mt.Royal station...I can still feel our playground = shaking!=20 I'd be very interested in your progress in modeling the PRR in = Baltimore. I'm=20 just sorry I didn't take pictures...there was so much to see in = Baltimore!=20 Regards, Bob Holden, PRRT&HS 5044.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BFBD2D.33A088C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] N8 caboose info Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:47:18 -0700 One more web to check out. http://caboosenut.com.I'd bet this guy has a photo of the underbody of an N8. He states he has home movies of every caboose move including them suspended up in the air by cranes. Greg Stone Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:47:26 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] H6sb check valves Hello list, I have finally made more progress on my Lambert H6sb. The base has a sandblasting booth, which I used to strip the lacquer finish (it also loosened a couple of solder joints, but let's not go there now). I'm redetailing my engine to match the preserved 2846, and I have more questions. At what point did the H6sb class lose external check valves. Several photos in Pennsy Steam: A to T show the H6sb class with and without the check valves below the sand dome (perhaps these are just water delivery pipes, but it's very unusual for a PRR engine to have external water delivery pipes or check valves). One photo on page 52 of H6sb 1145 shows the engine with the external check valve/water delivery pipe, and this is in 1945; this engine was modernized with a power reverse, as was H6sb 1749, shown on the previous page. However, H6sb 1749 lacks the external delivery pipe. H6sb 2846 lacks the external water pipe/check valve, at least in her current configuration. Most PRR steam had the check valves in the cab, and then long delivery pipes under the boiler jacketing to the front of the boiler. Since I'm now in Texas, and I don't have good photos of the 2846's cab, can someone enlighten me as to where her injectors are? Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:02:55 EDT Subject: [PRR] Strasburg H6sb - special features In a message dated 5/14/00 11:45:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << I'm redetailing my engine to match the preserved 2846, >> Be aware that the preserved loco at Strasburg has some "special" details, which may have contributed to its' survival, but, nonetheless make it a very special project. The H6sb at Strasburg has about a 4" steam line with a big globe valve running out of the fireman's side of the steam dome, forward along the boiler to the steam chest and then down to two nozzles, under the pilot. The loco was used, in yard service, for clearing switchpoints, during winter weather. (Don't recall where it was stationed - anyone know?) The "Docent" who explained the details to me said that the controls for the switch clearing feature had to be operated by an MOW employee, under union rules......... You may elect to model the unit BEFORE this special feature - but, if you include it, it would explain the H6sb's presence on an otherwise all diesel roster Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] N-8 Cabin info Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:03:39 -0400 Richard, list, Another source is Greg Martin's excellent article on page 68 in the November 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler. He has some great diagrams on how to section the bodies, correct the underframe at the platforms, and trainphone antenna mast and receiver placement. No underframe drawings, but the other information, including a blow-by-blow account of the conversion, is most valuable. A note on the collision posts - if you use the Bowser parts, the vertical posts will have to be bulked up - as molded, the members are too thin and have the wrong cross section. LMK off-list if you want a copy of this article. Best of luck on the cabins - I have a pile in my to-do box as well... Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:34:42 -0400 From: davep Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers da, tovarisch... looks like 480VAC, 150A fuse, induction motor. I can't think this detail affects the sound output, much.... best dwp "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to > >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize > >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. > > OK, so anyone out there with a GG-1 manual know what sort of > current/voltage these babies draw (the traction motor blower, NOT the GG-1)? > > Bzzzt Bzzzzt! > Bruce > > Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. > Scott-Ritchey Research Center > 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) > http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ > > "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin > __ > / \ > __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ > |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | > | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| > |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| > | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:48:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Lantern Question From: Jerry Britton Back in the mid-1970's, my parents purchased Harrisburg Hardware on Second Street in Harrisburg. They sold the business circa 1979. Among the existing inventory at the time were cases of new Dietz lanterns, looking like traditional railroad lanterns, but not bearing any railroad names. I suspect they were just consumer version "look-a-likes". Most were sold. I still have two of them. They are in mint condition, never burned. The metal is a metallic blue color and the globes are red. There are even Dietz stickers still affixed to the glass! Other than the Dietz name, the only other embossing on them indicates they are Model 100. Given the age and condition of these, are they likely worth anything more than a new "look-a-like" lantern? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:05:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] Form C.T. 290 R2 available as PDF I scanned and PDFed my "Electrical Operating Instructions", instructions for PRR electrified territory; You can find it currently at ftp://ftp.dementia.org/pub/prr/ct290.pdf; It's about 8mb. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brady Burdge" Subject: [PRR] S2 Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:13:43 +0200 I posted a few photos of the new MTH S2 on my web site under reviews. Does anyone know if the prototype S2 was equipped with a water scoop? Brady http://ogauge.homestead.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS site change question No desire here to revive an old dispute, but does anyone know why various features of the PRRT&HS web site have been "...removed at the request of the National Directors."? ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:57:44 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS site change question From: Jerry Britton On 5/15/00 5:04 PM, robert netzlof at (wb3iqe@rocketmail.com) wrote: > No desire here to revive an old dispute, but does > anyone know why various features of the PRRT&HS web > site have been "...removed at the request of the > National Directors."? > > I visited the site earlier this week and noticed some things were removed, wondered why, but had no idea it was "at the request of the National Directors". Hmmmm. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:01:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] S2 From: "William J. Ayers" Brady, > Does anyone know if the prototype S2 was equipped with a water scoop? According to Pennsy Power 1 the S2 tender made the rounds, starting on an I1s in the '30's as class 180-F-82, then on to streamlined K4 #3768 as a 180-P-75, then on the S2 it was classed 180-P-85, obviously being rebuilt each time. There is a fireman's side photo in PP III, p. 194, and in the shadows it appears that there is a scoop nestled between the trucks. I would find it hard to believe that it did not have one. Bill Ayers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] S2 tender Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:27:10 -0700 I live in southern California now.I am a native of Pennsylvania,born in Harrisburg.I was at a model railroad show here a few years ago and came across a "blueprint"of the S2 tender. How it got out here I'll never know. It is about 14 foot long and is rolled. It also came with a "blueprint" of some air reservoirs that were on the tender. It primarily shows all the welds and rivets sites for all the baffles in the tank as well as the slope sheet at the back of the tender, etc. It does not show the underframe. However it shows what appears to be the pathway by which the scooped water would enter the tank of the tender. The tender class was180F84 Capacity 18,000 gals, 75,000lbs. of coal. Now I am no expert, but I am fairly certain that this is the tender that was on the S2 and am fairly certain it had a water scoop. These prints will eventually be donated to an appropriate museum or the historical society. I am waiting to find a place that will make it accessible to the public but take good care of it. Greg Stone PRRT&HS member Special interest Renovo Yards Always looking for information or photos on the Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Near Las Vegas Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:17:06 EDT Hi group, I know this is a long shot, But is there any Prr related sites near Las Vegas? I am going there in a month for a week and wanted to do a train related side trip?? And ideas would be appreciated. Thanks Sam Vastano svastano@hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:27:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] PRR-published items in Jack Fravert collection For those of you not on distribution for the Jack Fravert auction, just wanted to mention that List 8, closing next week, includes 5 PRR public timetables and a 1925 copy of the Book of Rules. A list and instructions on how to bid will answer your emailed request. Don't look on EBay or for a website, as we're not there. Auction conducted via my email address. Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:27:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Grades into and out of Cleveland In a message dated 5/11/2000 9:45:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a shark AA set hauling a train. >> I know that I recently received a lecture on how close to the Lake is the divide between Lake Erie drainage and Ohio River drainage. The Indians' portage points, the canal grades, and later, the tops of the rail grades are suprisingly close to the lakeshore. Being from the wrong end of the Buckeye state, I had to have this pointed out (probably by Mark Bej). So it stands to reason that the helper grades south from the lake might not be too long. If you've ever railfanned the Cleveland & Pittsburgh at Ravenna OH, you'd swear the grade there must go south all the way down to the Ohio River. OTOH, this stiff ruling grade must have been a really interesting helper district northbound at various times. Anyway, knowing the C&P via Alliance and Yellow Creek to Pittsburgh was a "low grade line", maybe it's credible that only minimal tractive effort was necessary to run downhill as far as the Ohio River. Can anyone flesh this out a little more for me? -- I'm headed for the Akron area (NMRA convention at Medina) on Thursday, but have no track charts for the C&P. Thanks, Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 100 09:50:34 -0400 (EDT) davep scribit: > > "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." wrote: > > > > > I would think that any of the museums could hook them up long enough to > > >get the real thing on tape. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult an exercize > > >with a big pair of aligator clips or the equivalent. Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends yesterday, I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model railroads is the very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an electropneumatic plant. -- Mark D. Bej bejm@eeg.ccf.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:00:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) From: Jerry Britton On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends > yesterday, > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model railroads is > the > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an electropneumatic > plant. > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound decoder!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:25:08 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) >On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > >> Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends >> yesterday, >> I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model >>railroads is >> the >> very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an >>electropneumatic >> plant. Jerry replied: >Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound >decoder!!! Well, Since Columbia (COLA) was almost exclusively run be electromagnetic machines, I'm going to have to scratchbuild a lot of "switch motors" for my layout ! It's either that, or go with Atlas snap switches... I can't wait for the first well intentioned modeler to explain to me how nice my layout is, "except that they do make under the table mounted switch machines" Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:35:52 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Streamlined 18,000 gal tenders (was Re: [PRR] S2) Bill Ayers said: >According to Pennsy Power 1 the S2 tender made the rounds, starting on an >I1s in the '30's as class 180-F-82, then on to streamlined K4 #3768 as a >180-P-75, then on the S2 it was classed 180-P-85, obviously being rebuilt >each time. I'm afraid the story in PPI doesn't fit the facts very well. When the 180P75 was removed from K4 #3768, it was converted back to a 180F82, and used behind several I-1 lcoomotives until scrapped. Photographic evidence is reproduced in the Keystone (I forget the issue, but I think its vol 18, on 13,000 gal tenders adn Keisel tenders). The "180P85" on the S-2 was most likely built from scratch following the plans of the 180P76 on the T-1 prototypes. I will check my form 109s tonight to double check on this information Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cathatjim@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:38:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] Taken off of PRRT&HS website Hi, Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It seems like the best parts were taken away from members. What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, Something Different, Mystery Photo Thanks Jim PRRT&HS 6414 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:38:05 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] S2 tender Greg Stone wrote: >I live in southern California now.I am a native of Pennsylvania,born in >Harrisburg.I was at a model railroad show here a few years ago and came >across a "blueprint"of the S2 tender. How it got out here I'll never know. >However it shows what appears to be the pathway by which the scooped water >would enter the tank of the tender. The tender class was180F84 Capacity >18,000 gals, 75,000lbs. of coal. > Now I am no expert, but I am fairly certain that this is the tender >that was on the S2 and am fairly certain it had a water scoop. Greg, what you have is a blueprint of a Q-2 tender, not an S-2 tender (not that that is such a bad deal!) >These prints will eventually be donated to an appropriate museum or the >historical society. I am waiting to find a place that will make it >accessible to the public but take good care of it. You are a good man! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) > wrote: > > > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union > Station with 2 friends > > yesterday, > > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not > heard on model railroads is > > the > > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being > thrown in an electropneumatic > > plant. > > > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should > actually use a Soundtraxx sound > decoder!!! > Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Grades into and out of Cleveland Date: Tue, 16 May 100 10:43:28 -0400 (EDT) > In a message dated 5/11/2000 9:45:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobspf@aol.com > writes: > > I previously noted the same, but in rereading the article, I was struck by > the relative (to today's custom) low power assignments to these trains. The > caption on the Cleveland dock shot of 3 F7s and an Erie-built pulling an ore > train out of the Lake Erie basin says the F7 helpers will be taken off and > the single Erie-built will take the train from there. Another shot has a > shark AA set hauling a train. RickTipton@aol.com scribit: > I know that I recently received a lecture on how close to the Lake is the > divide between Lake Erie drainage and Ohio River drainage. The Indians' > portage points, the canal grades, and later, the tops of the rail grades are > suprisingly close to the lakeshore. Being from the wrong end of the Buckeye > state, I had to have this pointed out (probably by Mark Bej). So it stands > to reason that the helper grades south from the lake might not be too long. I will limit my comments to geography, as I cannot comment at all on issues of tractive effort, braking effort, etc. The Big Four line (NYC) from Cleveland to Crestline to Columbus is a good reference point, as is the original original B&O main to Chicago. Both are on railroad atlases that all of you have, and both of these fairly closely define the western edge of the Allegheny Plateau. The plateau is deeply cut by river valleys and thus, one is less free in siting one's railroad, should you be in the business of building one. Another example to bring this point home is to compare the number of crossing diamonds in the Plateau area and east versus west of that dividing line. Anyone reviewing a map of western Ohio, Indiana (northern 3/4 or so) and Illinois (northern 2/3 or so) will immediately notice that the lines that previously had been parallel or nearly parallel suddenly take off on straight azimuths, necessitating crossing everything else in their path at grade. The Plateau comes up nearly to Lake Erie itself and is the reason why the lake shore changes from nearly east-west from Toledo through Sandusky to Cleveland, to NE-SW from there to Erie and Buffalo. West of the Plateau, say in Lorain, Huron, Vermilion, or Sandusky, O., there is very little elevation change from lake to land. East of there, however, the lake shore has extremely narrow beaches before one reaches a clay and shale bluff of 60-100 feet. As one progresses away from the lake, every so often (a mile or 2, I'll estimate), there is yet another quick rise. These are old old lake shores, and the ridges not only are named, but often had a road placed upon their crest. Examples are US 20 and OH 84 (Johnnycake Ridge) on the east of the Cuyahoga; US 20 and OH 10 on the west. The mean elevation of the lake is something like 587 feet. The Plateau area south and east of Cleveland rises to about 1300 feet. (This is the snow belt, where, within only 10 miles of downtown Cleveland's 40" average annual snowfall, the annual average snowfall reaches > 100".) The Pennsy's southeastwardly trajectory out of Cleveland necessitates traversing exactly this grade and explains why the helper power can be cut off fairly early. There are upgrades south of there (to just south of HUDSON, if memory serves) which that train may have been able to handle on its own (Bobspf did not mention the length of the train ...). > If you've ever railfanned the Cleveland & Pittsburgh at Ravenna OH, you'd > swear the grade there must go south all the way down to the Ohio River. > OTOH, this stiff ruling grade must have been a really interesting helper > district northbound at various times. You mean the one at Atwater? It basically is downhill for the stretch you mention; I can't think of a significant uphill eastbound east of HUDSON. > Anyway, knowing the C&P via Alliance and Yellow Creek to Pittsburgh was a > "low grade line", maybe it's credible that only minimal tractive effort was > necessary to run downhill as far as the Ohio River. Can anyone flesh this > out a little more for me? Hmm. Low grade is, of course, relative to the original line's grade, in this case, the Fort Wayne's. Have you ever been along the Salineville grade? It's not one to sniff at. Though the C&P does not leave one with the same "washboard" impression that the Fort Wayne does. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Chany, Christopher" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:00:57 -0400 Listers, These switch machines are still available. Hudson Shores Model Train Depot has a demo unit on display. There in the Hobby shop section in the back of MR I believe. Chris Chany Bob wrote: Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:00:45 -0400 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Taken off of PRRT&HS website The Following is shear SPECULATION: Has all the markings of limiting access to info to members only and/or an additional fee for access to certain types of info. Cathatjim@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > Something Different, Mystery Photo > Thanks > Jim > PRRT&HS 6414 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:09:39 -0400 I know that this might be slightly off the topic of the PRR, but the Purdue University Model Railroad Club had pneumatic switches up until the early 1990's. I don't know the name of the manufacturer, but I believe that the club had pneumatic-operated turnouts since the 1940's. The all switch machines were eventually replace with Tortise (sic) switch machines because of the age and poor reliability of the air powered switch machines. On several occasions, operating sessions had to be cut short do to a severed air line or cracked junction box. They did make a "pffft-hhssss" noise when activated. I do not know if the Purdue Club has any remnants of this pneumatic swith machines. The club does have a web page (check Jerry's web page under links for other clubs, I think that the PRRC is listed) Perhaps they would be willing to give away them away if they haven't already. Tell'em I sent you. I was a member there from '83-'86 and '91-'93. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof [mailto:wb3iqe@rocketmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:40 AM To: Jerry Britton; Mark Bej; davep Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) --- Jerry Britton wrote: > On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) > wrote: > > > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union > Station with 2 friends > > yesterday, > > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not > heard on model railroads is > > the > > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being > thrown in an electropneumatic > > plant. > > > Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should > actually use a Soundtraxx sound > decoder!!! > Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, someone was making and selling pneumatic switch machines and the associated panel "switches" for model RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves could be slipped in between the electrical control and the actual actuator. Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. -- ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:19:16 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Bill: There has been some discussion in recent days as to why certain portions of the PRRT&HS web site have been removed... > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > Something Different, Mystery Photo The above is only one of many such queries, comments. Rather than allow the rumors/speculation to propagate, can you, as Webmaster of the site, provide some insight/explanation as to these removals? Your response will be distributed to the PRR-Talk list (if you are not a member and cannot respond directly). Thank you in advance for your prompt response! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:50:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) In a message dated 5/16/00 9:11:05 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx sound decoder!!! >> Or you could go to the pneumatic switch machines peddled by an individual at several train shows, including the GATS in DuPage County, Illinois. I seem to remember this discussion long ago on another list, but in the archives of Model Railroader is a series on the Tuxedo Junction Railroad which at least started down the path of pneumatic machines. The idea breaks down with me when you have to have an air compressor and reservoir, though some modelers have air piped in from their garage anyway for various reasons. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:04:07 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) In a message dated 5/16/00 9:49:00 AM Central Daylight Time, wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: << Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That may have been why they never caught on. >> In the Tuxedo Junction series in MR, I believe the headline was something like "Switch machines that slam with a kerchoo" or something like that. One of their purported reasons for using was the sound (in those days there might have been some economies as well--the layout had a lot of switches). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:06:17 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Steam Database Project Update From: Jerry Britton Just wanted to update everyone on the Steam Database Roster... It's coming along real well. Phase I is just the entry of all of the road numbers and their classes. I am 23.7% done with this phase and expect to complete it by the end of June...well ahead of schedule. Phase III will be to add all of the electronic, freely publishable photos that I have collected over the years. That will take me through the end of the summer. Did I miss a phase? You bet! Phase II requires audience participation. That's you! I still need folks to index photos in books for cross-reference. You'll need one or more of the books and Microsoft Excel (spreadsheet) software. If you can spare some time, please see http://kc.pennsyrr.com/steamdataentry.html and read a description of the assignment. If you can help, contact me. This is gonna be real cool! ...then comes a similar upgrade to the existing diesel roster and then the passenger car roster! (Not necessarily in that order!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:57:54 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] N-8 Cabin article List, Although the article is a bit dated is still will produce an excellent N-8. There are several advantages today that were not at my disposal in 199o. In reality the article was orginally written and going to be submitted to Prototype Modeler before they "hit the skids." It was rewritten and submitted to Mainline Modeler and picked up for publication. I do plan to revisit the kit in a bit more depth and include present day technology and parts. Should be a lot easier now and if you have any specific questions email me off list. The underframe diagrams for Pennsy cabin cars are very tough to find, and if anyone would take the time to shoot photographs of the underframes of remaining PENNSY cabin cars perhaps we could either have Jerry post them to his site or perhaps Rob's site, then we could at least have a good starting point for good underframes. I do plan to write a "lap/tabletop" type of book(s) on MODELING the PENNSYLVANIA RR in the not to distant future and revist several of the PRR projects I have done and include a few new ones. I would also hope to bring in projects from other authors (and some not yet known to us) to round out the book. I can see the project being put together through Hundman Publishing as I think Bob Hundman over the years has accumulated a good set of archives. I would like to mix in prototype articles like those done by Burt Pennypacker and drawiings like the M1 and J1 that have appeared in the past in Mainline Modeler as well as EMD and ALCo diesel drawings. Bob and I have talked about it before it is just a matter of getting it done and beleive me it could fill several volumes. Just need the time. It would be nice to light a fire under the project but it would help to have some PRR-Talk feed back to present to Bob Hundman. So FIRE AWAY! Greg Martin PS Frank Thank You for the kind comments... "Benjamin Frank Hom" writes: << Richard, list, Another source is Greg Martin's excellent article on page 68 in the November 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler. He has some great diagrams on how to section the bodies, correct the underframe at the platforms, and trainphoneantenna mast and receiver placement. No underframe drawings, but the other information, including a blow-by-blow account of the conversion, is most valuable. A note on the collision posts - if you use the Bowser parts, the vertical posts will have to be bulked up - as molded, the members are too thin and have the wrong cross section. LMK off-list if you want a copy of this article. Best of luck on the cabins - I have a pile in my to-do box as well... Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:08:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] N-8 Cabin article From: Jerry Britton On 5/16/00 2:57 PM, TGREGMRTN@aol.com (TGREGMRTN@aol.com) wrote: > I do plan to write a "lap/tabletop" type of book(s) on MODELING the > PENNSYLVANIA RR in the not to distant future and revist several of the PRR > projects I have done and include a few new ones. I would also hope to bring > in projects from other authors (and some not yet known to us) to round out the > book. I can see the project being put together through Hundman Publishing as I > think Bob Hundman over the years has accumulated a good set of archives. I > would like to mix in prototype articles like those done by Burt Pennypacker > and drawiings like the M1 and J1 that have appeared in the past in Mainline > Modeler as well as EMD and ALCo diesel drawings. Bob and I have talked about > it before it is just a matter of getting it done and beleive me it could fill > several volumes. Just need the time. > Because of the immense amount of material that could be housed in such a book, might I suggest setting up separate volumes for freight, MoW, passenger, diesel, steam, etc.? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:17:56 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: Streamlined 18,000 gal tenders (was Re: [PRR] S2) I said: >I'm afraid the story in PPI doesn't fit the facts very well. When the >180P75 was >removed from K4 #3768, it was converted back to a 180F82, and >used behind several >I-1 lcoomotives until scrapped. Photographic >evidence is reproduced in the >Keystone (I forget the issue, but I think >its vol 18, on 13,000 gal tenders adn >Keisel tenders). The "180P85" on >the S-2 was most likely built from scratch >following the plans of the >180P76 on the T-1 prototypes. >I will check my form 109s tonight to double check on this information I just had a chance to check Form 109-J (May 15, 1948) and it reported the following classes: 180 F 75, No. 6130 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 76, Nos. 6110, 6111 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 F 79, Formerly N&W (Nos. 373-378 inc) 180 F 82, No. 6000 (Converted from 180 P 75) 180 F 82a, Converted from 180 F79 for I1s, I1sa (Berkley Stoker) Nos. 373, 374, 375, 377 180 F 84 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 84 (Stoker engine on tender) 180 P 85 No. 6200 (Stoker engine on tender) The data listed for the 180 F 82 (No. 6000) is exactly the same as for the 180 F 82 listed in Form 109-I, December 1933, confirming that this is the tender that was converted for use with the I-1 and then reconverted (as noted in by the PRR "Converted from 180 P 75" above). The 180 P 85 specs are almost identical to those of the 180 P 84 indicating a similarity of design there as well. Where Staufer got the story about the 6200's tender isn't clear, but it seems pretty clearly incorrect. BTW, anyone have anything to add about the 180 F 75 # 6130? Is this the Q-1? The 180 F 84 are the Q-2s and the 180 P 84 are the production T-1s. Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:38:49 -0700 > ---------- > From: Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.[SMTP:smithbf@mail.auburn.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 7:25 AM > To: prr-talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) > > >On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) wrote: > > > >> Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union Station with 2 friends > >> yesterday, > >> I was reminded of the fact that another sound not heard on model > >>railroads is > >> the > >> very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being thrown in an > >>electropneumatic > >> plant. > > Jerry replied: > >Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should actually use a Soundtraxx > sound > >decoder!!! > > Putting one speaker in an interlocking is really not that far-fetched. But it begs the question: Has anyone actually recorded the distinctive electropneumatic switch sound? I would think this would be good sound to record for posterity. I can see someone asking about this a few decades from now, just like people have recently been asking about GG-1 blower sounds. I'd encourage railfans with tape recorders to try to capture this one. I'd do it myself next time I'm railfanning, but I don't know of any EP machines here in the Pacific Northwest. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:57:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic From: Jerry Britton I'm considering taking the kids out to Horseshoe Curve on Saturday. What time of day -- on a Saturday -- tends to see the most traffic, including passenger traffic? I realize it can be hard to predict, especially with NS, but I was once there with my daughter for an hour and didn't see a single train! (Fortunately she was excited to count the number of steps up the hill!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:35:45 -0400 The pneumatic switch machines are still made. The company's name is Del-Aire I think. I have a friend who swears by them. He started using them on an outdoor G scale layout and now uses them on his HO scale layout also. They just let out a short hiss when the switch is thrown, not quite as impressive as as real pneumatic switch, but I guess it's closer than a Tortise... Rob -----Original Message----- From: robert netzlof To: Jerry Britton ; Mark Bej ; davep Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) >--- Jerry Britton wrote: >> On 7/5/39 9:50 AM, Mark Bej (bejm@eeg.ccf.org) >> wrote: >> >> > Digging around in the bowels of Chicago Union >> Station with 2 friends >> > yesterday, >> > I was reminded of the fact that another sound not >> heard on model railroads is >> > the >> > very distinctive plunk-ssssss of a switch being >> thrown in an electropneumatic >> > plant. >> > >> Ah, yes, every DCC-controlled turnout should >> actually use a Soundtraxx sound >> decoder!!! >> > >Hmmm... Somewhere back around the Dawn of Time, >someone was making and selling pneumatic switch >machines and the associated panel "switches" for model >RR use. Not quite true-to-PRR as they were purely >pneumatic, but I daresay an array of solenoid valves >could be slipped in between the electrical control and >the actual actuator. > >Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. That >may have been why they never caught on. > > -- > > >===== >Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Sounds (was: Sounds of Traction Motor Blowers) Date: Tue, 16 May 100 16:43:17 -0400 (EDT) John Cooper scribit: > Putting one speaker in an interlocking is really not that far-fetched. But > it begs the question: Has anyone actually recorded the distinctive > electropneumatic switch sound? > > I would think this would be good sound to record for posterity. I can see > someone asking about this a few decades from now, just like people have > recently been asking about GG-1 blower sounds. I had my laptop (with sound card) with me in the Windy City, but alas, it was in the car, and not by my side when the thought came to mind. Besides which, 'twould have been mighty difficult carrying it AND my camera bag AND the other junk I was carrying under my arm at the time. OTOH, what my laptop has in portability it does not quite have in sound quality. At least on the output side. Perhaps the input side is not quite so handicapped. But I'm "east" often enough and will make a recording sometime soon, for which I shan't charge a dime. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:58:41 -0400 Subject: [PRR] RESPONSE FROM SOCIETY: PRRT&HS Web Site From: Jerry Britton Received the following e-mail from Bill Morlitz, who maintains the PRRT&HS web site... ---------- From: prrbill Organization: Haphazzard at best Reply-To: prrbill@Op.Net Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:27:32 -0400 To: Jerry Britton Subject: Re: PRRT&HS Web Site Jerry Britton wrote: > Bill: > > There has been some discussion in recent days as to why certain portions of > the PRRT&HS web site have been removed... > > > Does anyone know why these items were pulled from the PRRT&HS website? It > > seems like the best parts were taken away from members. > > > > What's New, PRR Psgr Cars, Broad Street Station, The Darkroom, Keystone > > Articles, The Information Exchange, PRR Modeling, Photo of the Week, > > Something Different, Mystery Photo > > The above is only one of many such queries, comments. > > Rather than allow the rumors/speculation to propagate, can you, as Webmaster > of the site, provide some insight/explanation as to these removals? > Jerry, I'm sure the talk on your List is stimulating concerning these changes. As stated on the website, "at the request of the National Board of Directors the PRRT&HS, the following portions of the National's website have been eliminated: " What's New PRR Psgr Cars Broad Street Station The Darkroom Keystone Articles The Information Exchange PRR Modeling Photo of the Week Something Different Mystery Photo The above portions will be moved to the Philadelphia Chapter site as needed and as time permits. It was the decision of the National Board of Directors at the May 5th meeting that the National's portion of the website become more informational (meetings, events, publications) than interactive (the Information Exchange Forum, Mystery Photo of the Week, etc.). As Superintendent (Steve is the webmaster), we serve at the pleasure of the National and Philadelphia Chapter's Boards and must adhere to their directives & guidelines. The Philly Chapter was more than glad to take over the portions that the National would pass on. As soon as Steve can affect the changes, those missing parts will be up. Best, Bill Morlitz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Scott Charlesworth" Subject: Re: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:25:12 -0400 The westbound Pennsylvanian and the eastbound Three Rivers go through between 11 AM and 12 PM, if they are on time. The afternoon has normally been the heavy traffic period with the fleet of piggybacks both directions. Lately though, there are trains all day long without much dead time... We saw about 15 trains in 4 hours last Saturday afternoon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Horseshoe Curve Traffic > I'm considering taking the kids out to Horseshoe Curve on Saturday. > > What time of day -- on a Saturday -- tends to see the most traffic, > including passenger traffic? > > I realize it can be hard to predict, especially with NS, but I was once > there with my daughter for an hour and didn't see a single train! > (Fortunately she was excited to count the number of steps up the hill!) > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:42:11 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] N Scale Atlas H-24-66 Hello list, Atlas will be releasing an N scale Trainmaster. Retail (decorated) between $125-135. They'll have PRR numbers 8703, 8705, and an unnumbered unit. Now, if we could figure out a simple way to add an antenna set to these units before they arrive (Atlas is predicting August), that would be really neat.... You N scalers have had a good year so far; Bowser will be doing N5c cabin cars. If I could get an inexpensive, durable K4s, I would be tempted to model more in N. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: [PRR] New NS work rules Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:20:35 -0700 Guyz, Since the NS recently took over the operations of the former PRR these new work rules are being put into effect. Thought you might be intrested in the "gentrification" of the railroad workplace :-) Bill Daniels Norfolk Southern's Top Ten work rule changes for Conrail This special Top Ten List comes straight from NS corporate headquarters, located behind Sam Drucker's General Store, Hooterville, North Carolina. The Top Ten changes in work rules expected to most adversely affect former CONRAIL employees: 10. All locomotives must now have gun racks. 9. Instead of meal tickets, train crews will be issued an RC and a Moon Pie. 8. Train crew headgear must display the "Redman" chewing tobacco logo. 7. All train crews are now required to have a coon dog asleep on the front platform of the loco. 6. Each crewmember must put sticker for favorite NASCAR driver in cab windows. 5. Robert E. Lee's birthday now a paid holiday; 4th of July (fall of Vicksburg) a day of mourning. 4. All yards required having at least two inoperable locos on blocks in front of the yard office. 3. Grade crossing horn signal is now the first 12 notes of "Dixie." 2. All radio transmissions now required to end with "Y'all." And the Number One change to CONRAIL work rules after the NS takeover: 1. Road Foreman job title changed to Overseer! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:40:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Atlas Trainmasters From: "Doug and Marianne" > Now, if we could figure out a simple way to add an antenna set to these > units before they arrive (Atlas is predicting August), that would be > really neat.... Gold Medal Models makes an N Scale etched brass set of various PRR antenna brackets for locomotives and cabin cars. They are quite simple to install and the results are excellent. All you need is a pin vice with #78 or #80 drill bits, CA cement and brass wire. Anyone interested in modeling the PRR in N Scale should check out this site: http://www.egroups.com/group/PRR-n_scale Doug N. babal@slip.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:51:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Fw: X41's In a message dated 05/07/2000 7:05:58 PM Central Daylight Time, jbreon@email.msn.com writes: << Walt wrote: "I bought one of the 51.3 cars and I believe the 51.4 was a little morein cost. I can't remember just how much, but I did talk with Mr. Sunshine about it. It was a dollar or two more, but the plane on was the one I wanted." Walt Stafa >> Walt Stafa Please contact me off list, RE: old aquaitnances. AlbertSr@aol.com Al Stump ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:00:36 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] New NS work rules I think No.5 is a great idea!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:27:05 -0400 From: David Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b in Plastic I talked with Martin Loftin about the R50 for the third convention in a row. He indicated that it is still in the works. The person doing the masters is the same person that did the X41 introduced at the convention. This person has recently moved to a different home and is still getting moved in and set up. There was no estimate regarding completion. Dave Pfeiffer >I remember in recent list traffic that Sunshine was considering a resin R50; >have you or anyone heard anything about this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Re: Pneumatic switches, was:Various subjects --- Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/16/00 9:49:00 AM Central > Daylight Time, > wb3iqe@rocketmail.com writes: > > << Don't know how well the sounds scaled, though. > That > may have been why they never caught on. >> I guess the fact that my tongue was well into my cheek didn't show. > > In the Tuxedo Junction series in MR, > (in those days there might > have been some economies as well--the layout had a > lot of switches). The Tuxedo Junction was built in a time when reliable, cheap, high current, low voltage rectifiers just didn't exist. Numerous folk ran model RR's from car batteries because the best rectifiers ordinary folk could buy couldn't keep up with the 1 amp/HO motor which was par in those days. Selenium rectifiers became available for model railroad use in the early '50s, silicon a bit later. So, I suspect that much of the appeal of the pneumatic switch machines was that you didn't have to steal a copper oxide rectifier bank from the phone company in order to run them. Of course, you needed an air compressor, but in those days every discarded refrigerator housed a neat little compressor that could be adapted to air. Come to think of it, wasn't the PRR's use of electro-pneumatic machines a reflection of the unavailability of electricity in industrial quantities? That is, use a little bit of electricity to signal a valve to let in air to do the heavy lifting and heaving, because a little bit of electricity was all you could afford in 1910 or thereabout. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:13:19 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pat, it's good to hear MC is still kicking! Hi Pat, Glad to hear that you've survived the trials and tribulations of the first couple of years of a growing business. I've finally recieved my disability pension. A lump sum settlement is allowing me to buy an A-B-A Erie Built lashup and an A-B BP20 lashup painted DGLE from Dave Higgenbotham's DLH locomotive works in Springfield Ohio. Now to add to my kitbash procrastination list. I've not seen any H-15-44s or H-16-44s on the Pennsy Cincinnati or Columbus Divisions. There were a bunch of H-20-44s assigned to switching duties in and around Cincinnati. It may be too simple to say that the only difference between these marques, from a modeling standpoint is the H-20-44's cab sits further back, eliminating the short hood to accomodate the larger prime mover. The H-20-44 was marketed as a road switcher but usually used as a super switcher for yard or transfer duties. The long hoods are generally the same. Might it be possible to market an alternative cab conversion kit so I can model this engine? And don't forget the center cab transfer motors. Modeling the Baldwin will give you a model used by the PRR and ATSF that I can bash into mt beloved butt-ugly LH 2400 Centercab transfer locomotive. In a message dated Tue, 2 May 2000 10:18:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Miracle Castings Inc." writes: << Hi Everyone! Sorry I haven't responded to the posts on the list sooner, but I've been one busy camper. Just so everyone has the story straight, here's what's been happening at Miracle Castings Inc., and what will happen: 1) Miracle Castings has undergone an internal reorganization, which has seen the following changes take place: Mike White has stepped down as CEO, and is being replaced by me (Pat Lawless). Scott Heiden remains as President. Mike has taken over the Vice President's position, but won't be involved on a day-to-day basis with the operation of the company, due to other committments. While the negotiations around these business changes were taking place, not much activity was going on within the company, due to the uncertainty of the outcome. However, as of last Wednesday, the necessary papers were signed, and everyone here is happy with the outcome. 2) The web site problems actually were due to the service provider temporarily shutting down. They shed their dial-up service, reorganized, and re-opened offering only web hosting services. Our site is now back up and running, but there are still a few glitches. Let me know if you find any. Needless to say we weren't happy with the complete lack of notice, and coming when it did, this certainly was enough to generate a few rumours. 3) The company is definitely going ahead with the H-15-44, as well as with lots of future projects. As owners, Scott and I will be handling the day-to-day operations of the company, and we are committed to seeing this through. Miracle Castings is here for the long haul. The response to the products we have already offered has proven to us that there is a market for what we have to offer, and we aren't going to let the opportunity go by. 4) To help grow the company faster, and improve communications and service with our customers, I have added a Sales Manager to our organization. His name is Dave Henwood, and he can be reached at sales@mc.cyklone.com , or on his cell phone at (519) 754-6945. Dave is an accomplished modeler with an excellent background in sales, plus a thorough knowledge of the model railroading industry. We're glad to have him associated with our company, and you will find him to be very helpful if you have questions. 5) I'm swamped! There's a lot of catch-up work to do, but I'm making progress, and getting lots of help from the other people who are associated with Miracle Castings. Just for the record, here's some of the people who have been involved with Miracle Castings in the past, and who are looking forward to being involved in the future: Al and Debbie Stefanovic: Casting contractors John Lucek: Kit assembly and physical plant Barry McClelland: Model maker, mold maker, and caster. Judy Heiden: Administration All of these folks have advised me that they are behind us 100%, and that they are looking forward to being very busy in the future. In short, it's going to take a very large stick to kill this company, so don't worry about us. Now that things are cooking again, we're going to be pushing hard to complete existing projects (such as the H-15-44 and the Gas Launch), and planning for future products as well. So stand by, and we'll have some new stuff for you to buy shortly! I'll keep Jerry notified of availability just as soon as I have some firm numbers. Regards, Pat Lawless CEO Miracle Castings Inc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:48:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] LWFF2 in 2001 - Let's do it right!! Rick, I'm responding on list to get the word out that the second LWFF will be held in 2001. I will go online this weekend with an announcement stating I'm looking for dates in the late summer or early fall of 2001 for the second LWFF. I agree that these is not enough time to properly pull off a show in 2000. I thought my last missive to you in early April after the Springfield, Ohio, train show stated this. A 15-month-lead time not only fulfill's my need for greater procrastination opportunities but will allow us to coordinate dates with major vendors. I do not want this to devolve into a flea market. However, I would like to explore coorindating the LWFF date with another major club or NMRA meet or major flea market (Ala the semiannual Springfield, Ohio train show or the Buckeye Railroadiana and Model trains flea market at the Ohio State Fairgrounds in Columbus to make attending our show attractive to the vendors. The long lead time also allows us more time to program the workshops. I'd like to see some thought about commissioning multiple presentations on subjects so that attendees would have a choice of following the theme path or follow more generalized presenations or presentations designed for an entry level of interest. As I am in the process of getting my first chair (a sleek black electric, six-wheeled SUV of a powered wheelchair with off-sidewalk capabilities; delivery by the end of the month), the Xenia Armory is out as a location because it is handicapped inaccessible. Fifteen months will give us enough time to find the RIGHT space in which to meet. Columbus would be a good location. Unforseen problems with the voice data entry program upgrade and some more heatlh problems (My wife still hasn't healed from a Jan. 1999 abdomional surgery and my empysema ain't too bad but just enough of a glitch to magnify my allegies) have kept me off line. I still haven't figureed what the message "An AOL problem has occurred" but it is keeping me off line. I'll be meeting with a service person shortly to trouble shoot the system (or are we going to shoot the troubling system?) TTFN Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:30:33 -0400 Subject: [PRR] R-50b From: Jerry Britton A very well known HO manufacturer is asking me about the R-50b. They are looking into making this their next project in plastic...all plastic!!! A few questions I am trying to answer for them. 1. What other roads, if any, used the R-50b? Please provide ORER/ORPTE references if possible. 2. Any references to published lettering diagrams? 3. When was the car first built? 4. How late did they last in service? 5. How many did the PRR have? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] CT1000 quandry, maybe some light Back in March of this year, Jerry Britton posted a question regarding some data from the 1945 CT1000 which puzzled him. The particular question revolved around the Marysville/Rockville area. Last night I fell into a similar puzzle in the same area, but in the 1923 CT1000. I was following, or trying to follow, the Main Line into Harrisburg, from the east (Philadelphia Div. in 1923). At the end of the list, there was a short section which, in the margin, was marked "Middle Division Tracks operated by Philadelphia Div." Leafing around through the book, I found another list, this one headed "Baltimore Div. (operated by Phila. Div.)" which described the same track noted above. That in the pages devoted to the Baltimore Division. Elsewhere, yet another list, in the Phila. Div. pages, which nearly duplicated the description in the Balto Div. pages. So, three different descriptions of the same few miles of track, and they don't match. (It was late, and I didn't think to check the Middle Div. pages to see if they too had something conflicting to say about the Enola/Rockville/Marysville area.) My point is that here and there, and Harrisburg is one of those places, the CT1000 has multiple descriptions of the Stations and Sidings, and those descriptions are not necessarily identical. Finding one description, which doesn't match very well with what one knows from other sources, causes confusion. Look further elsewhere in the book, and there may be a different description which fits better. I can speculate for a long time about why there would be multiple descriptions and why they would not be identical, but I don't _know_ why. Although I think he stated it poorly, Bill Strassner was right when he pointed out that the CT1000 was intended for a particular purpose, and recording the connectivity of the track layout was not that purpose. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:42:08 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Jerry, I get a little irked at these companies and their little production secrets, but maybe you should direct these folks to the Railway Express Agency book by Vic Roseman(?spelling) and one of Al Westerfield's ORER diskettes. I understand that's where express reefers are listed. It seems the REA book has photos of these cars as well as rosters. These resources should answer the questions these people have posed, aside from 'did anyone else use them?'. (I don't think anyone did, but I'm sure someone more aquainted with them should be able to offer a definitive answer). Once again, I'll believe them when I see them, but certainly something to hope for. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b In a message dated 5/18/00 7:39:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << 1. What other roads, if any, used the R-50b? Please provide ORER/ORPTE references if possible.> News to me that anyone else had them,but I am sure someone has that answer. 2. Any references to published lettering diagrams? No, but the photo in the Train Shed Cyclopedia NO. 3, page 189, gives a good picture. I couldn't find it in the small print in some long-ago Keystone, but I seem to recall that the R50b was one of the first conversions from gold leaf to buff lettering, by World War II if I recall correctly. <<4. How late did they last in service? 5. How many did the PRR have? >> Dont know the number built , but October 31, 1952, there were 536. (Jan53 ORER) Roseman says 271, but doesn't give the date, except to note that by 1967, only 67 remained. They were around as storage sheds for a while (there is a photo of one at Altoona in 1960). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] PRR H-21 on N&SS The Cleveland State University library has scanned a book of photos taken from a never-published book on the Newburgh & South Shore RR, circa 1920. The URL: web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/nssbk/captions.html Picture #71 is of a 140,000 lb capacity hopper car, which looks to me to be an H-21A (clam-shell hoppers, heavy end sills, Crown trucks) Some time ago, when Bowser announced the clam-shell H-21's in a variety of paint schemes, there was some talk here about "did X really exist, did X really have H-21's?" I don't recall seeing the N&SS mentioned. I wonder, did we ever reach any conclusion about how PRR cars came to be owned by other railroads? Did PRR have some investment in N&SS? The 1920's seems rather early for PRR to be disposing of H-21's as surplus. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:37:23 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Barry, Jerry and all, There are two trains of thought in the hobby industry today regarding "these companies and their little production secretes." After taking on the Scuttlebutt column for Mainline Modeler you get a better view of the producers and their concerns as to how information is offered to the market place. There are those who believe that if you "tell all" then the big guys will stay away and if they have not started the project then they will back off or at least let them the small guys know that the big guys is working in that direction, thus keeping the little guy from spending his hard owned dollars on a marginal project. Good idea right, good communication should help the industry, right? The problem is it never seems to work. The second train of thought is if they (big or small) keep the secrete then the other guy will not offer the same project using the marketing research done by the original. Believe it or not it does happen. Case in point the Atlas RS-3, the Stewart RS-3,and the MDC RS-3 when the Hobbytown was already on the market. Then there are the problems that arise even if the public knows that a project is underway. The producer puts a target release date out there and if missed the producer is flooded with "what happened?" inquiries. And with the advent of the Internet, well the actions are three fold. In the past it was more effort to write a letter and mail it via Snail Mail and await a reply, and easy to dodge as a producer. A current case in point is the Miracle Casting's new FM H-15-44. Since I annouced it (with the blessings of Pat Lawless) I have been flooded with Email and phone calls from people wanting to know "when" and how come the server for Miracle Castings is down? It is now very clear to me that Pat has picked a "Home Run" and it will be a big seller and he will become very well known for it. I think, hell I know, Pat has been flooded with calls at home because I think I was either the first call people made or if Pat did not call them back PRONTO then they called me and hell,! I am three time zones away. So you tell me what the anse is... I try to not speculate in my column or online on what a producer is going to do and when, even though I might know more than I tell , and I do... it is a matter of trust. I can tell you this much that the hobby industry is healthy and we shall reap the benifits! I have an complete packet ready to mail to what I believe is a very serious producer, who is willing to "look at the project." I have some off line conversations going regarding the project. I did this with a friend on the PCL list and i can tell you that we all shoould see some high quality Budd Passenger cars circa 1948 and later that many PRR modelers will benifit from perhaps by Christmas. GREG Martin Barry Writes: << Jerry, I get a little irked at these companies and their little production secrets, but maybe you should direct these folks to the Railway Express Agency book by Vic Roseman(?spelling) and one of Al Westerfield's ORER diskettes. I understand that's where express reefers are listed. It seems the REA book has photos of these cars as well as rosters. These resources should answer the questions these people have posed, aside from 'did anyone else use them?'. (I don't think anyone did, but I'm sure someone more aquainted with them should be able to offer a definitive answer). Once again, I'll believe them when I see them, but certainly something to hope for. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:41 -0400 Bob Zoeller speaking of PRR R-50bs wrote: >They were around as storage sheds for a while (there is a >photo of one at Altoona in 1960). Last time I was there (8/99) I saw an R-50b without trucks being used as a shed behind the Lewistown station. Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:52:03 EDT Subject: [PRR] R-50b response Guys, Just for ducks I sent a message off to the Santa Fe List to see what kind of response there was on their list regarding the R-50b. The SFHMA did an article in the Warbonnet on head end equipment and they did mention the R-50b and how often it showd up in Santa Fe consists and the response has been equal to our own PRR-Talk list. It is important that a project like this can be a as well recieved by modelers other than just SPF's. I think it has gone well to this point. Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: [PRR] CT1000 updates Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:07:40 -0700 Hi folks, Speaking of CT1000 issues, does anyone out there know if any updates to the 1945 version were ever issued? I realize it was a tremendous effort to generate a CT1000, but they seem vitally important. Can anyone speculate as to why PC issued something called a D.I.C.C.S. in 1970 that looks like a REALLY nice track chart/industry diagram? Has anyone seen one of these? The only one I have is for a small portion of the Monongahela Branch (Shire Oaks), but in the margins it refers to others (i.e., 30th St.). Why did PRR not do these? How would shippers, trainmen, etc. been able to tell if businesses were still connected to the PRR or no longer shipping by rail? Without a detailed track diagram (and you have to admit, the track charts are not detailed), how would PRR employees know the capacity of a siding, whether it was a facing or trailing switch, whether there were unloading facilities and on what side of the track versus end loading, etc.? On a big Division/Region/Branch, memorizing this or passing it on by word of mouth must have been formidable! What about freight car usage? Besides the notes in the ORERs (and often on the sides of the freight cats themseleves), are there any PRR documents that spelled out which freight cars were used for what kinds of freight? If a PRR employee was faced with a shipper that wanted to ship product that might not have fit into a standard boxcar or gondola, like an oversize load that would have required an F25c or G36h, or a special high capacity flat car, how would these people known what to ask for unless they intimately knew all the cars themselves? Any ideas? Thanks for your thoughts! Elden ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:16:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] something interesting about track charts Photocopy of a 1951 PRR Pittsburgh Division track chart arrived for me today. It includes the Altoona-Pittsburgh main, the line down the Mon to West Brownsville, and the various branches including Southwest, things in the area of Cresson, and the like. I noticed a bunch of places where trackage had been removed or even complete branches abandoned, and this was indicated by crossing out the trackage on the chart, and noting when. This makes the chart much more interesting than it might otherwise be. The only real problem is the original had been taped back together in a few places causing some distortion and missing info. I bought it from someone who sells copies of various track charts; I probably have the info if anyone cares. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:02:42 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] need help with a ticket Hi all... I'll make this short...Since you all are some of the few who might know or have one. Does anyone out there have a old Penn Central passenger ticket or a picture of one? Trains magazine is going to publish a short article i wrote and they would like to have picture of a PC ticket for the staff artist to go by. The closest i have is a early Amtrak ticket during the last years of PC. Perhaps someone has a old commuter ticket. Any help will greatly appreciated. Til Later Hank Mummert Jr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Randy Williamson" Subject: Re: [PRR] something interesting about track charts Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 Derrick, I sent Jerry Britton some track charts to post on his site. One of them was the one you had mentioned. I am not sure if he has that one posted to his site yet or not. Randy Williamson ----- Original Message ----- From: Derrick J Brashear To: Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: [PRR] something interesting about track charts > Photocopy of a 1951 PRR Pittsburgh Division track chart arrived for me > today. It includes the Altoona-Pittsburgh main, the line down the Mon to > West Brownsville, and the various branches including Southwest, things in > the area of Cresson, and the like. > > I noticed a bunch of places where trackage had been removed or even > complete branches abandoned, and this was indicated by crossing out the > trackage on the chart, and noting when. This makes the chart much more > interesting than it might otherwise be. > > The only real problem is the original had been taped back together in a > few places causing some distortion and missing info. > > I bought it from someone who sells copies of various track charts; I > probably have the info if anyone cares. > > -D > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars List, I seem to be short of info on the B60A Class headend cars. This car is similar to the B60 Baggage Car but had end doors applied on one end at some point in time. The info I need to know is Car Numbers in the series and how many were in use. And as an added luxury, when did they disappear from service? TIA!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Hmmm i found something(tickets) Hello again all... A little while ago i asked if anyone had a Penn Central ticket or where i might find one. While looking i happened upon this site and thought i'd share it with you all. It has PRR,NYC,PC and others tickets....cut off the /pcrr.htm part of it and it shows others. http://www.quuxuum.org/~joekor/ticketbooks/pcrr.htm Ya never know what you can find on the internet these days. Amazing... Til Later Hank Mummert Jr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:30:51 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE:PRR R50b Lettering diagram The March-April Issue of the 1975 PC Railroader Volume 3- No.2 on page 40 has the official PRR Passenger Cars Arrangement of Lettering for Class R50B. Dated 7/3/1928 and revised specifications for interior and exterior painting 4/20/31. This data appears to be comprehensive and accurate from original PRR documents. Cheers Brad C. Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:57:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE:PRR R50B data The PC Railroader magazine Volume 3-No. 5 September- October 1975 page 31 lists the following data about the PRR class R-50b express cars. The class R50b was the standard express reefer of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The class R-50 and the R-50A were experimental cars and only one of each was built. 550 R-50bs were built, number series 2551-31000 inclusive. All were ordered in 1928 and delivered by 1929 by 4 separate builders: 200-ACF, 200-Pressed Steel Car Co., 100-Pullman Car and Mfr. Co., 50-General American. Class R-50B was designed by the PRR and all were identical, regardless of which company built them. Cheers Brad C. Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: [PRR] Conrail Grade Crossing incident Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:16:34 -0400 http://thortrains.hypermart.net/conrail1.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:23:16 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would have = had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to the = rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches that = were parallel to each side of the tender? Also would this tender have = had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe. I've = seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all. The = book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. = I'm not sure but it may have a drawing of the top of this tender. If = someone who has the book could look for me I'd be much appreciative. This info is for my current K4 project.=20 Thanks, Kris ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used = behind the=20 K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located = parallell to=20 the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches = that=20 were parallel to each side of the tender?  Also would this tender = have had=20 a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe.  I've = seen=20 this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all.  The = book, "The=20 Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a.  I'm not = sure but=20 it may have a drawing of the top of this tender.  If someone who = has the=20 book could look for me I'd be much appreciative.
 
This info is for my current K4 project. =
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BFC120.0B5B24A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:02:03 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] RE:PRR R50B data In a message dated 5/18/00 10:11:01 PM Central Daylight Time, BowerPRR@aol.com writes: << Class R-50B was designed by the PRR and all were identical, regardless of which company built them >> There was a later modification to ladders and roofhatches (removal in some cases?). Anyone know the dates, details, and numbers of cars so modified? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] Erie builts in Zanesville and Cambridge Ohio From: Fred G Rea Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:07:26 EDT My son, Garrett, and I share a fairly extensive collection or old Rails Northeast magazines. In one of them there are photographs of some 6 axle Erie buils in S.E. Ohio. More specifically the captions read: 9478 sits in Zanesville Ohio in the late 50's where it saw service in local and mine runs........ and A pair of Erie builts in Cambridge Ohio in this 3/30/52 shot ...... Does anyone have more specific info on these units, and more specifically where they were used? I have not seen the photos as Garrett has them in Nashville, but I am interested in the operations on both the Zanesville Branch and the Cleveland and Marietta. Fred Rea Columbus OH ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:10:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender In a message dated 5/18/00 10:26:12 PM Central Daylight Time, kkollar@cplx.net writes: << The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. >> Unfortunately, the only top drawing is of a 130P75. FWIW, on that tender one long rectangular hatch is parallel to the back of the tender. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:23:00 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kris, I've just checked my copy of THE MANY FACES..., and unfortunatley it = dosen't have a drawing of a 110P75a. It does, however have a drawing of = a 130P75 tender that shows a single cross-wise hatch and no cover over = the scoop pipe. There are no shots looking down on one of these tenders = in the book as well. I would venture a guess that the 110P75a looked a = lot like the 130P75 tender, but I can't say for sure. I think that the = larger tenders had the two hatches (in order to facilitate lining up the = water crane) while the smaller tanks had a single hatch. Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Kris Kollar To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: [PRR] 110P75a Tender =20 =20 Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would = have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to = the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches = that were parallel to each side of the tender? Also would this tender = have had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe. = I've seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all. = The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. = I'm not sure but it may have a drawing of the top of this tender. If = someone who has the book could look for me I'd be much appreciative. =20 This info is for my current K4 project.=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Kris ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris,
 
I've just checked my copy of THE MANY FACES..., and=20 unfortunatley it dosen't have a drawing of a 110P75a. It does, however = have a=20 drawing of a 130P75 tender that shows a single cross-wise hatch and no = cover=20 over the scoop pipe. There are no shots looking down on one of these = tenders in=20 the book as well. I would venture a guess that the 110P75a looked a lot = like the=20 130P75 tender, but I can't say for sure. I think that the larger tenders = had the=20 two hatches (in order to facilitate lining up the water crane) while the = smaller=20 tanks had a single hatch.
 
Bill Daniels
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Kris Kollar <kkollar@cplx.net>
To: = prr-talk@dsop.com <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Thursday, May 18, 2000 8:24 PM
Subject: [PRR] 110P75a=20 Tender

Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender = used behind=20 the K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch = located=20 parallell to the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large = rectangular=20 hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender?  Also = would this=20 tender have had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water = scoop=20 pipe.  I've seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops = but not=20 all.  The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale = drawings of the 110P75a.  I'm not sure but it may have a = drawing of the=20 top of this tender.  If someone who has the book could look for = me I'd=20 be much appreciative.
 
This info is for my current K4 project. =
 
Thanks,
 
Kris
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BFC10F.3E7B4740-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 23:48:59 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kris--I am also unable to come up with a photo or drawing of the top of = a 110P75a. However, from what I have observed from other tender = classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a single hatch = parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else in the = middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna. For your K4 = project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if you are including a trainphone antenna; stick with the single = hatch if not. I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe = on any 110 series or larger tender. By the way, where did you get the 110P75a? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kris--I am also unable to come up with = a photo or=20 drawing of the top of a 110P75a.  However, from what I have = observed from=20 other tender classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a = single=20 hatch parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else = in the=20 middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna.  For = your K4=20 project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if=20 you are including a trainphone antenna;  stick with the single = hatch if=20 not.  I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe on = any 110=20 series or larger tender.
 
By the way, where did you get the=20 110P75a?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFC123.A3008680-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:45:55 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: [PRR] 1361 Info List: Does anyone have an idea of when K-4s #1361 got the front end "beauty treatment?" Thanks. Frank Brua ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:51:26 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:08:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally In a message dated 5/19/00 7:57:26 AM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. >> And the original drive was the best on the market. Mine still is one of the best running locos I have seen. But, hey, Barry, how can any Pennsy guy say anything is RTR? :-). Mounting antennas on any RS is a bear. I admit I haven't undertaken replacing the headlightss yet although I did replace the airhorn. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:32:34 -0700 Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:51 AM To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:46:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally On Fri, 19 May 2000 egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil wrote: > Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another > reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately > scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of > the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the > Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic > body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came > out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all > grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't > even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have > this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate > the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. > Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Other people kind of clued me in, but the MDC has the most accurate shell, if what you want is that phase. If you want e.g. phase 3, it's Stewart or nothing. I own some of each (Atlas, MDC, and phase 3 Stewart), and I expect eventually to rework and be running all of them. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:52:25 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Modeling MoW From: Jerry Britton Those of you who were on hand Thursday night at the recent convention know that Al Buchan gave a top-notch slide presentation on MoW. As part of his presentation, he provided a handout which listed the consists of several wreck trains. It went on to indicate which models best depict the prototypes. This was a "must have" handout!!! Al has given me permission to post it to "Keystone Crossings". It's a PDF file, and you'll find it in the Modeling section. UNRELATED: The steam database data entry (road numbers and classes only) is over 51% done!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:05:52 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally Elden and all, The Atals is in my opinion a good running locomotive, but the body shell is TRASH. The cab is too short, the window on the firemans side is WRONG, the hood is too short, the louvers are too short, the truck details are toy train like, the handrails are so 70's-ish, should I continue.... IMHO it is a good running toy. The Stewart is missing the slots on the top of the hood are missing (okay for L&N but, hey... come on),teh firemans side window is WRONG, the truck wheel base is too short, the detail on the trucks is 70's-ish, the power train is okay, but it mneds a 5-wire trick done to improve it, need I say more. THe MDC excells in all catagories except the original power frame which needs work, but if you read my article I would defy you to tell the difference between the Atlas once "rebiuilt", the new underframe is like the Life Like. The details are correct, the dimensions are correct, the handrails lend themselves to the PRR battery box modifactions, this is what the others should be like. THe Hobbytown is good, but we all know the problems, do I need to list them... I will if requested. Greg Martin << Hi guys, I am happy you brought up the RS-3 thread, although for another reason. I wanted to ask you all which, you believe, is the most accurately scaled body shell of those available. I realize there are many adherents of the Hobbytown shell, but these are hard to find nowdays. Specifically the Phase 1 variants. I don't mean handrails or other add-ons, but in the basic body shape, molded-on details, etc. I did 3 RS-3s when the Atlas first came out in PRR details, including the headlights, antennas, replacement of all grabs, and all, but they have always subconsciously bothered me. I can't even put my finger on it, but they seem "short" top to bottom. Do you have this same impression? Is it just the cab? Or is the Atlas body OK? I hate the idea of having to re-do these guys from scratch, but I need your advise. Which one is best for the 8800 series (1b?)? Thanks for your help! Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:51 AM To: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] R-50b finally Greg & folks, Funny you should mention the RS3 eruption, a classic case of a famine to feast product. In that case, however, none of the manurfacturers actually did the market research, Railroad Model Craftsman did. Recall the survey they ran in RMC? The RS3 came out a big favorite for most-wanted product, in spite of the old Hobbytown kit. (I think most moedelers balked at all that work on a metal kit, despite it's excellant running qualities). The only other similar engine was the AHM RS2-type model, so the market was ripe. All three RS3 models hit at almost the same time, flooding the market. All three versions have their adherants: the Stewart for it's excellant detailing, my favorite, the MDC, has good detail and will run with Athearns even though it's gearing is different, and the RTR trainset types liked the Atlas model because it ran well and they didn't have to do anything. But I have to wonder how it would have been if only one had come out? I can't really picture the market sudde! nly being flooded with three different models of the R50, leaving out a resin version as most guys still won't touch those kits. (I was recently at a flea market where a guy had dropped new Westerfield kits to $8 and I was the only one buying any. Geez, instant gratification, anybody?). Well, perhaps, and only "perhaps", we'll see an R50 in a year or two, eh? Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:01:01 EDT Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally/RS3 Elden, Greg & guys, Now I'm really glad this RS3 subject came up. When I read Elden's comments this morning, they struck a familar chord. I 'knew' there was something I didn't like about the Atlas model...it didn't 'look' right. Folks thought I was nuts when I sold my two used ones at a flea market and spent the proceeds on three new MDC versions, a pretty decent 1956 Official Guide, five pair of CV Bettendorfs still in the plastic boxes and a couple of coal loads, all for the same money. Sometimes ya get lucky. (I've since seen the buyer of the two Atlas engines trying to resell them...maybe he compared them to some prototype photos?) Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:19:47 -0400 Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers From: Jerry Britton Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in the order of your preference: Any GL GL GLa GLc GLca other* (specify) * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available to cover all bases!!! Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kris Kollar" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:04:55 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your trainphone theory sounds plausible. Onthe cover of the PRRT&HS = published book, Pennsy in the Steel City, there is a shot looking down = over the tops of some G5 locos & their tenders. Off to one corner is a = K4 which is reported to have a 110P75a behind it. It does have the dual = hatches with a train phone running smack down the middle. I'm just not = sure if this is an anomoly or standard practice. I think I'll = "interpret" it as standard practice and build mine with the two large = hatches. Couple those with the train phone and it should result in one = awesome looking tender. For the tender I started with the one offered by Bachman several years = back. I've already corrected the steps by carefully removing them with = an X-acto blade, and lowering them, repositioned the tender deck, then = scratch built the missing fourth step. I shaved off the slope sheet = rivets and am now painstakingly replacing them as close to prototypical = as I can get. It sounds harder than it actually is. Its just time = consuming. I'll have to remove the cast on water hatch but that won't = be a problem. Its moving along much slower than I'd like since I'm = wasting too much time playing an awesome WWII fighter game on the PC = every night. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Hoxie=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Kris--I am also unable to come up with a photo or drawing of the top = of a 110P75a. However, from what I have observed from other tender = classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a single hatch = parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something else in the = middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna. For your K4 = project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if you are including a trainphone antenna; stick with the single = hatch if not. I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe = on any 110 series or larger tender. By the way, where did you get the 110P75a? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your trainphone theory sounds plausible.  = Onthe cover=20 of the PRRT&HS published book, Pennsy in the Steel City, there is a = shot=20 looking down over the tops of some G5 locos & their tenders.  = Off to=20 one corner is a K4 which is reported to have a 110P75a behind it.  = It does=20 have the dual hatches with a train phone running smack down the = middle. =20 I'm just not sure if this is an anomoly or standard practice.  I = think I'll=20 "interpret" it as standard practice and build mine with the two large=20 hatches.  Couple those with the train phone and it should result in = one=20 awesome looking tender.
 
For the tender I started with the one offered by = Bachman=20 several years back.  I've already corrected the steps by carefully = removing=20 them with an X-acto blade, and lowering them, repositioned the tender = deck, then=20 scratch built the missing fourth step.  I shaved off the slope = sheet=20 rivets and am now painstakingly replacing them as close to prototypical = as I can=20 get.  It sounds harder than it actually is.  Its just time=20 consuming.  I'll have to remove the cast on water hatch but that = won't be a=20 problem.  Its moving along much slower than I'd like since I'm = wasting too=20 much time playing an awesome WWII fighter game on the PC every=20 night.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve = Hoxie=20
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 = 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a = Tender

Kris--I am also unable to come up = with a photo or=20 drawing of the top of a 110P75a.  However, from what I have = observed from=20 other tender classes--and therefore infer as standard practice-- is a = single=20 hatch parallel to the rear of the tender UNLESS there is something = else in the=20 middle of the deck, such as doghouse or trainphone antenna.  For = your K4=20 project you would "probably" be correct with two hatches, one on each = side, if=20 you are including a trainphone antenna;  stick with the single = hatch if=20 not.  I have not seen a cover/hatch over the water scoop pipe on = any 110=20 series or larger tender.
 
By the way, where did you get the=20 110P75a?
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola=20 FL
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BFC1D5.E1F3A860-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 23:15:31 -0500 Jerry Britton wrote: > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! This is great news! Everyone modeling 40's to 50's (and later!) can use these, but especially PRR folks. This would be much easier with Teichmoeller's book....where is that thing? For those that haven't looked it up yet: GL--Original version later modified to GLc, then GLca. In 1955 there were about 2600 GLca left. Identified by fishbelly sides. GLa--Completely different design than GL; no fishbelly sides. Similar in appearance to USRA two bay hopper (PRR class GLd), but dimensions are significantly different, has characteristic PRR protruding end sills. Over 30,000 built for PRR, another 4,000 for coal companies such as Berwind and Westmoreland. In 1955 over 25,000 (!) remained in service. Westerfield makes all of these; very nice but expensive. For my purposes a couple of his GLca will suffice, but I need at least a dozen of the GLa. Go Bowser! Jerry, mark me down for the GLa. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: FW: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 04:05:50 -0400 I agree with Steve - the GLa fills a noticeable hole not only for a Pennsy layout, but for just about anyone who models the Northeast rail scene c. 1940s-1950s. I'd build a bunch in conjunction with H21's in order to drown the Athearn ribbed side H31 twins in a sea of the right cars (as they should be). As a bonus, they could also be marketed in Berwind and other coal company schemes as well. Two recommendations: 1. Don't confuse Class GLa with the Class GL/GLc/GLca family cars. I wouldn't mind seeing the GL/GLc/GLca cars in plastic as well, because even though they aren't around in as great numbers as Class GLa, they stick out like a sore thumb in a train because of their pressed steel fishbelly sidesill, and were fairly common in pictures of the transition era. As for the numbers, 1955 is a fairly late date during the steam-to-diesel transition - if you model c.1950, you will need more of both classes (1949 - GLca 8192 cars; GLa 26198 cars). Going off subject a bit, 1950 is a watershed date for freight cars - at this point, many older cars that survived the war are still around (36 ft DS boxcars are an excellent example), but would soon be replaced the great wave of post-war cars being built by Pullman-Standard, AC&F, et. al. 2. Since the life of the car was so long, the cars that survived into the fifties were significantly different from the cars as originally built (the original design had odd angled grabs on the ends), so basing the details on the cars as the appeared in the fifties would appeal to the widest audience. Jerry, cast my vote for the GLa, but if I can have two, sign me up for the GLca also! Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:18:52 +0100 Jerry, Here's my choice. 1) Definitely number one is the GLca (1940s....on) 2) GLc (1923 .....on 'til modified to GLca) 3) GLa (but looks a lot like other hoppers whereas the GLca is just that bit different and would be a visual plus factor in a train of hoppers) First choice has got to be the fish-belly hopper and the GLca is the version running in the 'period' when a lot of us model. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Sent: 20 May 2000 01:19 Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:21:13 -0400 From: "John F. Ryan, Jr." Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers In order of preference GLa GLca GLc GL Westerfield now has the GLa with a one piece body. John Ryan Jerry Britton wrote: > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Jerry, Lee I think he GLca is the car most needed at this point. Not many Fish Belly side models out there at all. Ulrich (generic) and Westerfield (Pennsy styles) are the only ones I can think of. Lots of straight side sills available, ie: Athearn, Atlas, TM, and numerous others. Although not any are of PRR prototypes, another straight sill (even if PRR) will only blend in with the glutten of 2 bays. I think the Fish Belly GLca's will be quite eye catchers!......Gary PS: Still wouldn't mind seeing that all impotant N8 Cabin from Bowser first or even someday too!!! Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:37:54 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Jerry, list, I'd cast my vote for the GLa hopper. Doug J ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brooks" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:31:36 -0400 This is great news. Thanks, Lee. I need a fleet of GLa hoppers. GLca would be a distant second choice. Visually, the GLc and GLca may be more distinctive, but the H21 and GLa defined the Pennsy hopper fleet into the transition era. I own Westerfield GLa and GLca kits, but don't have the time or money to spend on building the quantity my coal branch needs. Any chance John Teichmoller may be consulted on this project? Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Britton" To: "PRR-Talk" Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:45:06 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars Gary, list, My PRR passenger equipment roster from 1 October 1954 lists the following B60a baggage express cars: 5669-71, 5972-79, 6151, 6157-8, 6261-3, 7312, 7315, 7318-9, 7322, 7329, 7332, 7339, 7376, 7393, 7422-4, 7723, 7726-7, 7729, 7731, 7733-5. Good hunting on the rest of the information; I hope the above at least gets you started. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I seem to be short of info on the B60A Class headend cars. This car > is similar to the B60 Baggage Car but had end doors applied on one end > at some point in time. The info I need to know is Car Numbers in the > series and how many were in use. And as an added luxury, when did they > disappear from service? TIA!....Gary > > Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:51:06 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] 1361 Info Frank, list, My best guess is circa 1948. I believe she went through a major shopping that year (ironically, a year when over 100 K4s engines left the roster). Photos of her in the early 40s show her running with a 110P75a (I have a picture of her in 1941, newly stoker fired with a 110P75a); after she received the modernized front end, it seems that she ran with a 130P75 (though not necessarily the same one she has today). Some K4s engines didn't receive the drop coupler pilots until 1950; the revised headlight and generator locations apparently started in 1945 when K4s 3847 received poppet valves and the revised front end. The 1361 did receive a major shopping sometime between 1945 and 1950; 1948 is, once again, my best guess. I will cheerfully accept corrections to my assumptions above! Doug Park Varieties wrote: > List: > > Does anyone have an idea of when K-4s #1361 got the front end > "beauty treatment?" Thanks. > > Frank Brua > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:01:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender --------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris, list, The last time I visited the RR Museum of PA, K4s 3750 had been moved inside. I went up on the walkway and looked down. Her 110P75a (bear with me, as I'm relying on memory and am now 1500 miles away) has a single crosswise water hatch. The cover/hatch for the water scoop pipe would not be appropriate for any 110P70/75/75a tender (it is perfect for the 70P70 on E6s 460 and probably most of the 70P70 subclasses as well). I don't recall any overhead pictures or plans of a 110P75a, but I will look in my collection tonight or tomorrow and see what I can find. Kris Kollar wrote: > Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would > have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to > the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular > hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender? --------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris, list,

The last time I visited the RR Museum of PA, K4s 3750 had been moved inside.  I went up on the walkway and looked down.  Her 110P75a (bear with me, as I'm relying on memory and am now 1500 miles away) has a single crosswise water hatch.  The cover/hatch for the water scoop pipe would not be appropriate for any 110P70/75/75a tender (it is perfect for the 70P70 on E6s 460 and probably most of the 70P70 subclasses as well).

I don't recall any overhead pictures or plans of a 110P75a, but I will look in my collection tonight or tomorrow and see what I can find.
 

Kris Kollar wrote:

Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender?
--------------520CD2BC2D9E52C63353BCCB-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:03:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cast my vote for: 1. GLa 2. GLca And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be nice! Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins = lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? Take care, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cast my vote for:
1. GLa
2. GLca
 
And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be=20 nice!
 
Only question I have is what do we do with all of = those=20 Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad?
 
Take care,
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFC27D.55FFEF00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:08:44 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Lambert HO H6sb valve gear repair Hello list, While running in my H6sb (this has been an ongoing project, done a few minutes at a time), the eccentric rod on the left side separated from the reverse link. It appears to me that the rivet (?) joining the two gave up the ghost. Do any of you know if this is really a rivet? Have any of you had this happen and fixed it. While pondering possible solutions, I have so far concluded that regular Bowser rivets are too short, and that long MDC rivets are too large in diameter. I am now contemplating an 00-90 optical screw, but I will gladly take suggestions! Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FarbLand@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:25:04 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey In a message dated 5/20/00 5:07:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: > Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins > lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? > The athearn twin is a good approximation of the H31, it even has the trust plate molded on the corner. But your right to be statistically correct most layouts would only need 1 or 2 H31's. Brian Carlson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:27:22 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Likewise, for me: GLa GLca Bob Holden ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Likewise, for me:
 
GLa
GLca
 
Bob Holden
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC289.0A74D440-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:53:10 EDT Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey In a message dated 5/20/00 5:07:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: << Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? >> Spray em black and letter them for the Erie, or VGN - or another railroad that fewer people care so passionately about Here's one tip - Don't use ALL the numbers in the Champ set for the Erie A guy in our group - who worked for the Erie is fond of walking into train rooms and saying "that's wrong" from across the room The Champ set shows a car with a 6 digit number The Erie's entire roster never required more than a 5 digit number Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:02:14 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding the PRR hoppers, same list for me...(GLa, GLca) On the N8 front, a couple of years ago I called Bowser (pricey call, = from deepest, darkest Southern Arizona to Pennsylvania, but that's = another story) I asked the nice lady on the phone if Bowser would = consider doing the N8. Her reply was that Bowser lost money on the N5\a = caboose (hey guys...Pennsy had LOTS more N5/a/b cabins than they had = N5c's. Go out and make your roster more prototypical!) and they at that = time were NOT considering producing a N8. Maybe times have changed, or = maybe the good folks at Des Plains/Centrailia Car Shops might do one. (I = got their mailing today, with the announcement of a Santa Fe Ce-1 Waycar = as well as their latest reincaration of the Storzek Soo Line Caboose...) = I would rather see Bowser do the N8, but unless things change we might = as well lobby Des Plains. Check out Des Plains on the web at = http://www.desplainshobbies.com Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey =20 =20 Cast my vote for: 1. GLa 2. GLca =20 And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would be nice! =20 Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn = twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? =20 Take care, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Regarding the PRR hoppers, same list = for=20 me...(GLa, GLca)
 
On the N8 front, a couple of years ago I called = Bowser (pricey=20 call, from deepest, darkest Southern Arizona to Pennsylvania, but that's = another=20 story) I asked the nice lady on the phone if Bowser would consider doing = the N8.=20 Her reply was that Bowser lost money on the N5\a caboose (hey = guys...Pennsy had=20 LOTS more N5/a/b cabins than they had N5c's. Go out and make your roster = more=20 prototypical!) and they at that time were NOT considering producing a = N8. Maybe=20 times have changed, or maybe the good folks at Des Plains/Centrailia Car = Shops=20 might do one. (I got their mailing today, with the announcement of a = Santa Fe=20 Ce-1 Waycar as well as their latest reincaration of the Storzek Soo Line = Caboose...) I would rather see Bowser do the N8, but unless things = change we=20 might as well lobby Des Plains. Check out Des Plains on the web at http://www.desplainshobbies.com<= /A>
 
Bill Daniels
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Walt Prusick <walpru@stargate.net>
To:= =20 prr-talk@dsop.com = <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Saturday, May 20, 2000 2:04 PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy = Hopper=20 Survey

Cast my vote for:
1. GLa
2. GLca
 
And I gotta agree with Gary Mittner, an N8 would = be=20 nice!
 
Only question I have is what do we do with all = of those=20 Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad?
 
Take care,
Walt = Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFC274.C376C940-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:09:07 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops...seems that with the URL printed right in front of me I can't seem = to type correctly. Must be getting old. The correct URL for Des Plaines Hobbies is = http://www.desplaineshobbies.com Sorry... Bill Daniels ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops...seems that with the URL = printed right in=20 front of me I can't seem to type correctly. Must be getting = old.
 
The correct URL for Des Plaines Hobbies is http://www.desplaineshobbies.co= m
 
Sorry...
 
Bill Daniels
 
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BFC275.B9DA0AE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:21:56 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt Prusick wrote: Only question I have is what do we do with all of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania Railroad? Walt, here's some options: 1) VGN 23000-23999; 25000-25999; 28000-28999; 29000-29999, total 3298 cars, photo in January 1986 issue of Model Railroading. 2) Pittsburgh & Shawmut 8256-8577; 9000-9248, total 393 cars, photo in January 1986 issue of Model Railroading. 3) WAB 37000-37399, 376 cars built new in 1948, Pikestuff panels. These cars are the best match for this conversion - other panel side twins were rebuilt from USRA cars and are better represented by the Tichy kit. I'd save your best PRR one, use a few more to model the above cars, and sell the rest! The other options, bashing them into USRA cars or GLa's, don't really match up dimensionally and will be OBE anyway if we can get the GLa manufactured. Ben Hom ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt = Prusick=20 wrote:
 
Only question I have is what do we do = with all=20 of those Athearn twins lettered for the Pennsylvania = Railroad?
 
 
Walt, here's = some=20 options:
 
1) VGN=20 23000-23999; 25000-25999; = 28000-28999;=20 29000-29999, total 3298 cars, = photo in=20 January 1986 issue of Model Railroading.
 
2) Pittsburgh & Shawmut = 8256-8577;=20 9000-9248, total 393 cars, photo = in=20 January 1986 issue of Model Railroading.
 
3) WAB 37000-37399, 376 cars = built new in=20 1948, Pikestuff panels.  These cars are the best match for this conversion = - other panel side twins were rebuilt from USRA = cars and=20 are better represented by the Tichy kit.
 
I'd save your best PRR = one, use=20 a few more to = model the above cars, and sell the = rest!  The=20 other options, bashing them=20 into USRA cars or = GLa's, don't really match up dimensionally and will be OBE anyway if we can get the GLa manufactured.
 
Ben Hom
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BFC290.A9D12B40-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] 90F82 Tenders Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:13:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steam Modelers: An HO 90F82 tender made of resin is currently in the = works and is, in fact, well along. I have seen a photo of the first = article out of the mold. Very nice! More detail work is to be done, = but the producers are actively and enthusiasticly working. Although I = am not free to divulge who has taken on the project, many of you have = seen their quality work. This is the tender the I1 was built with and fills a gaping hole in our = ability to accurately represent our railroad. The tender could also be = used behind the K4 (appropriate if modeling in the 30's), a few H9's (in = the 50's), and many H10's (50's also). I don't know if I can stand it: GLa (or GLca) hoppers coming, serious = R50b rumors, and now these tenders! And I still have X29's to build! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steam Modelers:  An HO 90F82 = tender made of=20 resin is currently in the works and is, in fact, well along.  I = have seen a=20 photo of the first article out of the mold.  Very nice!  More = detail=20 work is to be done, but the producers are actively and enthusiasticly=20 working.  Although I am not free to divulge who has taken on the = project,=20 many of you have seen their quality work.
 
This is the tender the I1 was built = with and fills=20 a gaping hole in our ability to accurately represent our railroad.  = The=20 tender could also be used behind the K4 (appropriate if modeling in the = 30's), a=20 few H9's (in the 50's), and many H10's (50's also).
 
I don't know if I can stand it:  = GLa (or GLca)=20 hoppers coming, serious R50b rumors, and now these tenders!  And I = still=20 have X29's to build!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BFC2B9.5B5B1F60-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MIKADO1361@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:43:54 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 30TH Street Station The North Philly stop was the stop in Philadelphia for the westbound Broadway Limited of Amtrak in 1979. I rode to Chicago many times during 1979-1980 on business trips in roomette accomodations. When the train would pull in ti N Philly, you were asked to wait a a loading location that corresponded to the sleeping car you were to ride in. Getting to N Philly required using the local commuter trin. If you showed your Amtrak ticket, you rode free from 30th Street to N Philly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Athearn twins (Pennsy Hopper Survey) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 06:51:51 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, Your second option as to what to do with the 'excess' hoppers, that is = repaint and decal for the Pittsburgh & Shawmut, may be just the ticket = for those of us modeling western Pennsylvania. I recall that the P & S = interchanged with the Pennsy at Freeport, PA. (20 or so miles north of = the steel city, along the Allegheny River) then ran northward to = Brockway. Probably what I will do as I phase in the GLa/GLac, if and = when they come in. Gee, the hoppers are only a rumor and already I am = making plans. Could we be a bit anxious? Naw. Take care, Walt Prusick =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ben,
Your second option as to what to do with the = 'excess' hoppers,=20 that is repaint and decal for the Pittsburgh & Shawmut, may be just = the=20 ticket for those of us modeling western Pennsylvania. I recall = that the P=20 & S interchanged with the Pennsy at Freeport, PA. (20 or so miles = north of=20 the steel city, along the Allegheny River) then ran northward to = Brockway.=20 Probably what I will do as I phase in the GLa/GLac, if and when they = come in.=20 Gee, the hoppers are only a rumor and already I am making plans. Could = we be a=20 bit anxious? Naw.
 
Take care,
Walt Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC2F1.0AF37EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:59:17 EDT Subject: [PRR] 90F82 tender Good morning Guys - How many times have you read one of the expert modelers on this list say I have just seen the first shot of something. Well, this morning you are all going to have that opportunity. We will be manufacturing the 90F82 tender. It will be a one piece seamless shell. It will be available with one and three man doghouses. One of the questions we have answered was can the straight up and down coalboard be cast as thin as brass and still be practical. The answer is yes. In fact ours is thinner. Now I'd like to stand here and take all the bows for what I believe is going to be a really great model however in all honesty I can't. The praise for this model has to go to the really fine people on this list. Those of you who have sent drawings, pictures, part numbers and have gone all out in helping with research and encouragement and genuine good wishes. So stand up guys and take a bow. And then go out to our website (web specials page) and take a look at the first shot, bearing in mind that it has not been cleaned up. It still contains some flashing and that there is still a lot of work to do. You will see the thinness of the coal bunker sidewalls at the top. You will see the detail on the coal bunker doors and the diamond plate in front of them. If you look carefully you will see the rivet detail. Sorry the pictures are so dark but they are just scanner images and we used a black resin in order to get a true picture of how it would really look. As usual corrective criticism or suggestions are appreciated. Dayna www.trainstuffllc.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Dayna, Glad to see your project moving right along. It appears from the scans that this tender will meet or fill a lot of needs. Have you made progress on the dog houses and if so can you clue us in on the quality of these too? I forget what you mentioned about the underframe and trucks. Can you share your ideas here with the list? Was it to share Bowser parts? One suggestion also. When you do make the production tenders, please use the black resin as well. That way if any chipping of paint occurs, the black resin color will help hide the nicks and chips if any do happen. Again, nice work! When can we see a 1940's Streamlined K4 Loco Boiler Shell and Tender Shell??? Hmmmmm???..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:33:48 -0700 Gary and all Chipping paint is usually not a problem with non-metalic models...and working with black plastic parts is a pain, especially for those of us with older eyeballs. And while the 1940 era streamlined K4s shell would be nice, I doubt that enough would be sold to justify the cost of production. (I would love to be proved wrong) Me, I would love to see a next-generation H9s and/or E6s (maybe both, since there are a lot of common parts) would be the ticket. Hmmm...I wonder what would it take.... Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: DWa9975062@aol.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, May 21, 2000 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Dayna, Glad to see your project moving right along. It appears from the scans that this tender will meet or fill a lot of needs. Have you made progress on the dog houses and if so can you clue us in on the quality of these too? I forget what you mentioned about the underframe and trucks. Can you share your ideas here with the list? Was it to share Bowser parts? One suggestion also. When you do make the production tenders, please use the black resin as well. That way if any chipping of paint occurs, the black resin color will help hide the nicks and chips if any do happen. Again, nice work! When can we see a 1940's Streamlined K4 Loco Boiler Shell and Tender Shell??? Hmmmmm???..Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:18:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 Tenders In a message dated 5/21/00 12:24:12 AM Central Daylight Time, steveh@dotstar.net writes: << An HO 90F82 tender made of resin is currently in the works and is, in fact, well along. I >> Now that is good news. I finally picked up a United I1 with that tender at a bargain, but now I can finish detailing my Cary-boilered, helix-humper-powered Bowser version. I always feel more comfortable bashing around Bowser's to get DCC decoders in, etc. Only problem is I am trying how to minimize the damage to the Cary shell to clear the helix humper--it was designed for the Bowser shell and I hate to destroy the backhead to get it in. Bob zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] HO scale Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:39:27 -0700 Gee with all this Pennsy stuff available in HO scale it almost makes one consider changing scales. Consider what has come out in the last 3-5 years. Plastic H21 hoppers H21 with clam shells X31 boxcars in multiple versions G24 gons N5 N5c to name just a few Also you have so many resin kits to choose from and volumes of brass to fill in the gaps. I watch brass HO pennsy stuff sell for a fraction of what it goes for in O-scale. Consider what a fleet of H21a hoppers cost you at $300.00 each in O scale. Kohs GG-I sold for $3,000.00. The only other option is a MTH diecast at $500.00 and I am not sure it was done in two rail, a House of Duddy at about $1200.00. or the like. Resin kits in O-scale like the X29 or G24 done by Des Plaines hobbies went for $60.00 ++ dollars. And still their are major gaps in what is available to O scalers.It makes one laugh when you guys here about something else comming out and ask for something more! If you are like me you have more projects sitting on the shelf waiting to be built or painted that if you worked at them constantly, you won't get them done before what you buy next will fill the shelf. Not to mention the layout we all intend to get finished some day. Now that I think about it. I'll stay in O scale the production rate of new stuff is closer to the production rate at my backshop! --Greg Stone Renovo Yard PRR amatuer historian and O scale nut. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Hoppers Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:19:40 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC31E.D6739F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List members, The thought just occurred to me, I have a dozen or so sets of Cambria & = Indiana hopper decals sitting in my "decal bin". Project I started a = few years back and never finished (sound familiar?) Anyway, does anyone = have 'good' pics of C & I twin hoppers circa 1950-54 which I could use = to redetail/reletter a portion of my Athearn hopper fleet? Thanks in advance, Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC31E.D6739F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List members,
The thought just occurred to me, I have a dozen or = so sets of=20 Cambria & Indiana hopper decals sitting in my "decal bin".  = Project I=20 started a few years back and never finished (sound familiar?) Anyway, = does=20 anyone have 'good' pics of C & I twin hoppers circa 1950-54 which I = could=20 use to redetail/reletter a portion of my Athearn hopper = fleet?
Thanks in advance,
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BFC31E.D6739F00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:01:08 -0400 From: David Pfeiffer Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers With the recent Westerfield one piece GLa making these a bit quicker to assemble (yes they are more expensive but they are much more accurate and much more detailed than Bowser will ever be), I vote for the GLca. I thought they would some day follow the H21 with an H25. Dave Pfeiffer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:37:10 -0400 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Hi Dayna, A 90F82 tender is great news indeed. One thing in your message caught my eye and I couldn't tell from the web site photo just how the model will handle it. You wrote: > > Good morning Guys - How many times have you read one of the expert modelers > on this list say I have just seen the first shot of something. Well, this > morning you are all going to have that opportunity. We will be manufacturing > the 90F82 tender. It will be a one piece seamless shell. It will be available > with one and three man doghouses. One of the questions we have answered was > can the straight up and down coalboard be cast as thin as brass and still be > practical. The answer is yes. I'm concerned about the "straight up and down coalboard". By this do you mean the raised sides on each side of the coal space? If so, these are not exactly vertical. Most brass imports have failed to get this detail correct. PRR Tracing Nos. D440469A - Tenders, General Arrangement and C57059G - Tenders, Tank, General Arrangement for 90F82 show a slight slope from the vertical. The horizontal offset is 1 1/2" over a 2'-2" height - not much, but enough to be noticeable. It won't show up in side view photos, but can be seen in steep angled views. Best wishes for a much needed model. Bob Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:55:01 EDT Subject: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters Folks, I for one am really glad to hear about a GL hopper variant from Bowser. To be truthful, I hope it's a version on which the fishbelly is quite evident, in order to make it 'different' enough to attract even non-Pennsy types. The more successful Bowser is with PRR models, the better their future potential is for even further models. (And, on the side, I just picked up an X31 turtle roof box, and that roofwalk is gorgeous. I'd like a slug of them for improving others of my car fleet) But anyway, mention has been made of the Athearn ribbed twin, a what, H31? I understand Athearn made the inside length 33 feet in order to use the molds from the offset version, whereas the prototype Pennsy car had an inside length of 31-6. Not bad for a compromise, and this car, along with the offset car, are two of my favorite models. Athearn doesn't always get the respect some of it's models warrant, as some of them are very well done and all of them operate very well. I'd already done a couple ribsides in C&I, using Champ decals, and this car is something of a standard on my freelance S&LE. I wouldn't be too quick to scrap them out of Pennsy service, even if the prototypes numbered only, what was it, 710 or 730? You hear much about their numbers being too small to be noticable on the Pennsy, but consider the rest of Pennsy's fleet. In 1950, out of over 200,000 cars, PRR rostered only 3381 flat cars, less than 2%. If we're going to keep 'proportional fleets', than you have to have less than one flat car out of fifty cars. Stock cars numbered 2273, about 1% . So if you've got 200 cars, don't get more than 2 of the new Bowser cattle cars. Or, be like some of the rest of us don't worry about it. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:20:00 EDT Subject: [PRR] 90F82 tender Listers - Thank you for the many kind words. As soon as the tenders are finished I'm sure Jerry will let you all know. Remember if you buy them from him you keep the list going. And isn't that what we're all about? One more thing. How about some trucks? Remember...they have to carry electricity AND be correct. So if you have any information e-mail me off list. And thank you all again. You're a great bunch of guys. Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:19:05 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters In a message dated 5/21/00 6:58:51 PM Central Daylight Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << So if you've got 200 cars, don't get more than 2 of the new Bowser cattle cars. Or, be like some of the rest of us don't worry about it. >> I agree, Barry. On one of the other lists, someone commented on modelers modeling the exceptions or rarities too much. I agree that a Pennsy modeler should certainly have a few X29, X31, and H21s around, but I pointed out that, regardless of the era, if you lived in a certain place at a certain time , a one-of -a-kind showed up regularly. The example I gave was an ICG 86 foot HI-Cube which I saw regularly in Conrail freights passing Colehour (Hammond, IN) . I shoud also point out that , in my diversion into modern modeling, I had someone do an SD60M shell for Conrail which I mounted on a chassis. Guess what I saw regularly, including back-and-forth publicity ride trips for Operation Lifesaver: Conrail SD60M #6500, the one I modeled! Similarly, I note at least a couple videos of Pennsy freights with pickle tank cars and helium tank cars. What do you think the odds of that happening would be except that probably in that spot in that era, they were regular traffic. Thus, I pointed out that at a certain point in time if you were modeling the Fort Wayne Division, the one-of-a-kind S1 duplex would be a daily occurence. After all I grew up on the Rock Island commuter line with BL2's, baby Trainmasters, every day. And if you modeled stockcars in proportion, as you pointed out, you could never do the daily FW8 Man-of-War. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MarkCFry@aol.com Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:08:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] HO scale N-8's I always loved the Bowser N-5's and N-5c's and hoped that Bowser would eventually come out with the N-8. Since I model in the mid-sixties, this would be a well needed addition to my fleet. However, I recently heard that Bowser has no plans to produce an N-8 as they were unhappy with the sales of the other PRR cabins. Has anyone else heard or confirm this? I wonder if anyone else would consider running this piece. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:15:02 -0400 Mark and the PRR-List: I can confirm that Bowser will NOT come out with the N-8 Cabin car. I wrote a email to Bowser about 1/2 a year ago regarding the N-8. Lee English replied to me and basically related the same that you heard. That the N-5 cabin car sales were such that it was a deterant to making molds for a N-8. So, it will have to be someone else...... Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: MarkCFry@aol.com [mailto:MarkCFry@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 10:09 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] HO scale N-8's I always loved the Bowser N-5's and N-5c's and hoped that Bowser would eventually come out with the N-8. Since I model in the mid-sixties, this would be a well needed addition to my fleet. However, I recently heard that Bowser has no plans to produce an N-8 as they were unhappy with the sales of the other PRR cabins. Has anyone else heard or confirm this? I wonder if anyone else would consider running this piece. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:19:24 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters Bob, Your comment on Helium tank cars rings true for most of us...but down here in deepest, darkest Southern Arizona these cars were a regualr sight on the Espee's EPTUD/TUEPD El Paso to Tucson local. I saw them all the time (until some years ago when they finally disappeared) and they were an sign that the train I was chasing was indeed the local. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:59:53 -0400 Good arguments brought up by all - when I brought up the statistical data on the Pennsy hopper fleet, I meant to limit application of that data to hopper cars alone and certainly didn't mean to open this can of worms across the board for all freight cars! Now that the cat's out of the bag, though, some more thoughts on the statistical approach to building your model freight car roster: Working percentages for a given freight car fleet based on what you find in the ORER is very much a blunt instrument in the hands of the railroad researcher. It gives you a very good idea of what the freight car fleet looks like overall, but it fails to take into account the fact that whatever freight cars prevailed in any given location depended on the nature of the traffic at that point on the railroad - both local and through traffic. For instance, that AHM/Ambroid USN Helium Tank Car is statistically insignificant compared to the rest of the freight car population, but as Bill Daniels remarked, these cars were a regular sight on the Espee's EPTUD/TUEPD El Paso to Tucson local (down in prime Helium country, BTW), and, I suspect, a regular sight in New Jersey on the way to Naval Air Station Lakehurst for Atlantic convoy patrol blimps during WWII. However, the same car might be rare at other points on the system. <> <> Stock cars and flat cars are great examples of how traffic drives how often you see a certain car type. Both car types are for specialized lading - livestock for stock cars, and just about anything that won't fit in a boxcar (this being the steam-era, of course) on a flatcar. So, for example, if you have a marble quarry on-line, then you'd see a greater proportion of flats and gons than you'd see normally. For stockcars, FW-8 (and NF-6 for the new Bowser K9's - there's a great use of a 12-pack of cars!) represent specialized traffic driving the need for large numbers of cars. (By the way, I've always been curious about how many foreign road stockcars showed up on FW-8. Anyone have any ideas?) <> So, back to the Athearn ribbed twin. I feel that in this case, a small class of hopper cars would still be drowned in a sea of the larger classes. You'd still see them, but you'd still see more H21's and GLa's in proportion. Now before you type out that flame, keep in mind that we all have large quantities of these models, and it was not my intention to bust on Irv Athearn's models. In fact, if you take a look at his original metal boxcar models, the paint schemes are nicely done (contemporary at the time that the kits were introduced), and the level of detail is remarkable given the age of the kits. I think the lack of respect is due to the fact that familiarity breeds contempt - the models have become so familiar for so long (and have been knocked off, often badly, so many times) that their faults are magnified out of proportion. The offset twin is still a nice model of that prototype, even after models based on newer tooling have been produced. That being said, there are other prototypes that fit this kit as I previously posted. Still, if I had to quickly rebuild my hopper fleet from scratch, I'd use the Accurail USRA twin to represent the bulk of the 7 panel ribbed twin hopper fleet - it just sizes out better than the Athearn twin. Until this new GLa (or GLca) model comes out, it'll definitely do to represent PRR twin hoppers on our layouts. So, I think the most reasonable and productive approach is to pick out a location or area of greatest interest, and then work from available sources to get a feel for the traffic around and through this location. Is it worth the trouble? I think it is - I enjoy making new discoveries as the pieces fall into the big picture, and there is something to be said about building a layout that "looks right" for the time and place modeled. There is definitely a place for unusual freight cars (I certainly have my share), but modeling all of the exceptions does not an exceptional layout make. Ben Hom ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:16:55 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] NO HO scale N-8's Mark and all, As I reported in my Scuttlebutt Column in MM in the April issue, per Lee English. NO N-8 Cabin Car. As I said I wanted to and still would like to dispel the rumors... Greg Martin MarkCFry@aol.com writes: << Has anyone else heard or confirm this? >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:17:15 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters In a message dated 5/22/00 12:05:57 AM Central Daylight Time, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes: << (By the way, I've always been curious about how many foreign road stockcars showed up on FW-8. Anyone have any ideas?) >> No statistics, but videos seem to always show a few C&NW cars (usually in the green and yellow, so we are talking about mid-50's if I have my C&NW dates right). Also an occasional UP yellow or an ATSF. Leads me to suspect that Western RR cars might be seen more frequently than, say, B&O. At least that is the approach I am taking. I am waiting for a K7 or K8 to really build a train, but C&NW, UP, and a stray D&RGW black which is a leftover from AHM days, are my foreign road cars. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:18:36 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FW: Heads Up on P1K C-Liners From: Jerry Britton Now that the subscribers of the "Merchandise Announce" list have had first dibs on this, I'll pass it on to the masses... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------- From: Jerry Britton Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:59:25 -0400 To: "Merchandise Announce" Subject: [MerchServ] Heads Up on P1K C-Liners Make "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions, your source for model railroad products. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life Like Proto 1000 C-Liners are due next month, with three road numbers for PRR. All indications are that the PRR units will be totally sold out prior to delivery!!! Life Like sells to a dozen or so distributors which, in turn, sell to hobby shops like "Merchandise Service". I deal with four distributors that all handle Life Like. All but one has their allotment of PRR units totally pre-sold. The fourth has fewer than a dozen of each road number remaining unreserved! I just placed what will undoubtedly be my final order if these units. I have several of each road number still unreserved and available for my customers. This is an advisory, if you want these units, order now!!! http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, president jbritton@dsop.com Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. http://www.dsop.com "Merchandise Service" model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com For brass enthusiasts http://www.brasstrains.net For manufacturers and dealers http://www.modelrailroadnews.net ------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send the message "unsubscribe MerchandiseAnnounce" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:08:01 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Twin Hoppers/Freight Rosters In a message dated 5/21/00 11:05:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, b.hom@worldnet.att.net writes: << So, I think the most reasonable and productive approach is to pick out a location or area of greatest interest, and then work from available sources to get a feel for the traffic around and through this location. Is it worth the trouble? I think it is - I enjoy making new discoveries as the pieces fall into the big picture, and there is something to be said about building a layout that "looks right" for the time and place modeled. There is definitely a place for unusual freight cars (I certainly have my share), but modeling all of the exceptions does not an exceptional layout make. >> Ben, This is exactly what I was going to say. Excellent points. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 05:34:45 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Mark and all I am the one that put this comment up, and I got it directly from Bowser in a phone call a year or so ago. I hope to hell it is wrong, but I haven't heard anything otherwise. You might try lobbying the folks at Centrailia Car Shops/Des Plaines Hobbies, since they are doing several cabooses sucessfully. Bill Daniels MarkCFry@aol.com wrote: > ... However, I recently heard that > Bowser has no plans to produce an N-8 as they were unhappy with the sales of > the other PRR cabins. Has anyone else heard or confirm this? I wonder if > anyone else would consider running this piece. > > Mark > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:15:21 -0400 Bill and PRR-List: Would the N-8 be a good candidate for a resin model? I think that there are a number of good resing model firms that could undertake this project. Ted Andrews Carmel, IN -----Original Message----- From: Bill Daniels [mailto:billd@gci-net.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 7:35 AM To: MarkCFry@aol.com Cc: PRR talk Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Mark and all I am the one that put this comment up, and I got it directly from Bowser in a phone call a year or so ago. I hope to hell it is wrong, but I haven't heard anything otherwise. You might try lobbying the folks at Centrailia Car Shops/Des Plaines Hobbies, since they are doing several cabooses sucessfully. Bill Daniels MarkCFry@aol.com wrote: > ... However, I recently heard that > Bowser has no plans to produce an N-8 as they were unhappy with the sales of > the other PRR cabins. Has anyone else heard or confirm this? I wonder if > anyone else would consider running this piece. > > Mark > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:48:48 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Former PRR York Haven Line Activity From: Jerry Britton Yesterday I happened by the former PRR RoW on the York Haven line at York Haven, Pa. The York Haven line was the stretch from the south end of Enola to Wago Junction. It included the twin tracks of the Northern Central Branch and the twin tracks of the Atglen & Susquehanna Branch. It has long had the NCR's two tracks torn up, leaving only two tracks. I was surprised yesterday to find piles of new ties and rail, plus some prefabricated track sections -- prototype SnapTrack -- piled along the existing two trucks. Further investigation DOES NOT suggest that this is replacement of existing ties and rail. There are stakes, orange spray paint markings -- both along the RoW and at crossings -- that suggest they are adding a third track!!! I did not have time to investigate further south, but the same evidence is present proceeding north (railroad west) through Cly and into Goldsboro. Now the questions are: 1) Is this a new third track? If it is, then what is its purpose? Stacking trains for entry into Enola, perhaps? But as the line passes north/west of New Cumberland, the old NC Branch elevated as the A&S remained low. There are numerous places on the lower line that are not wide enough for a third track. Does this mean the third track would be relaid on the old NC RoW? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:03:41 EDT Subject: [PRR] Athearn Hoppers/Rosters/Helium Cars Ben & folks, Good postings on this subject! I'm well aware of the 'local mix' factor in determining freight car fleets, I just wanted to point out the inherent weakness of using a 'proportional mix' to build a fleet. In other words, we can't always say in one breath 'we can't use the Athearn because it's too scarce' and in the next breath say 'but we can use XYZ even though it's too scarce'. I just couldn't think of a good example where an Athearn twin would be more likely than a GL car. You'd have to figure that coal yards or other one-car industries might prefer a 50-ton load to a 70 ton, so a twin hopper would be more likely than a tripple, on account of clearance or weight restrictions. Still, a GL or H31 is a twin, so the more numerous class would be the most likely to be used. Regardless, I'd prefer the Athearn to an Accurail USRA, as the Pennsy at least had H31's. The lowly gondola was the general purpose car of the steam era, being 17% of all freight cars against the flat's 2.5%, and this would bear out with most loadings. Even the granite-hauling Rutland made gons out of many of their flats because of that type's greater utility and much of what could go on a flat could also go on a gon, but not vice-versa. Course, truck trailers would look like heck in a gon, and I've never heard of a depressed-center gon, so we're indeed back to exaimining the local traffic base to really determine what we need on our layouts. Which brings to mind the helium car observations in this thread. Strange as it may seem, there's an industry near the local horse racing track that is home to a couple such cars. Yesterday I saw two helium cars in the industry yard, usually there's only one. But for the last 15 years, with only a couple exceptions, I've been able to count on seeing at least one such car. On the other hand, I've never seen one in a train, anywhere, at least in person. Wish I could find an Ambroid kit at a decent price with all the parts! Oh well, good discussion, guys. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Rob Schoenberg" Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Heads Up on P1K C-Liners Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:24:46 -0400 Next month? I got my 3 units from my local dealer last Thursday! They look great! It looks like LL finally darkened their DGLE color. I did notice a few small details that are different from photos of PRR units but for now at least they're close enough for me! Now to just figure out how to add the trainphone antennas! Rob http://prr.railfan.net -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 6:26 AM Subject: [PRR] FW: Heads Up on P1K C-Liners >Now that the subscribers of the "Merchandise Announce" list have had first >dibs on this, I'll pass it on to the masses... >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > >"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of >Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana >products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", >the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- >Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are >providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit >our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > >---------- >From: Jerry Britton >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:59:25 -0400 >To: "Merchandise Announce" >Subject: [MerchServ] Heads Up on P1K C-Liners > >Make "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions, your source >for model railroad products. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Life Like Proto 1000 C-Liners are due next month, with three road numbers >for PRR. > >All indications are that the PRR units will be totally sold out prior to >delivery!!! > >Life Like sells to a dozen or so distributors which, in turn, sell to hobby >shops like "Merchandise Service". I deal with four distributors that all >handle Life Like. All but one has their allotment of PRR units totally >pre-sold. The fourth has fewer than a dozen of each road number remaining >unreserved! > >I just placed what will undoubtedly be my final order if these units. I have >several of each road number still unreserved and available for my customers. > >This is an advisory, if you want these units, order now!!! > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >----------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, president jbritton@dsop.com > Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc. > http://www.dsop.com >"Merchandise Service" model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >For brass enthusiasts > http://www.brasstrains.net >For manufacturers and dealers > http://www.modelrailroadnews.net > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from this list, send the message "unsubscribe >MerchandiseAnnounce" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Jerry & Peg" Subject: [PRR] The Ol' Hook & Eye: History of the KVRR on the Web Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:31:04 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFC3E1.36B2AB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to all: Some of you may remember a book I published some time ago titled The Ol' = Hook & Eye: A History of the Kishacoquillas Valley Railroad. Although = the book is out of print you can check out the KV on my website at: http://kvrr.rrdepot.com/ For those of you who don't know, the KVRR was a 9-mile shortline which = ran between Belleville and Reedsville, where it connected with the = Mifflin and Centre County Railroad (Milroy Branch of the PRR). In 1928, = the KV extended it's passenger service an additional 7 miles from = Reedsville to the PRR main line at Lewistown via trackage rights on the = PRR. Not only did the KV meet PRR main line trains, but it also used = hand-me-down PRR locomotives and cars. Hope you find it interesting. - Jerry Hartzler: KVRR Webmaster ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFC3E1.36B2AB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello to all:
 
Some of you may remember a book I = published some=20 time ago titled The Ol' Hook & Eye: A History of the Kishacoquillas = Valley=20 Railroad.  Although the book is out of print you can check out the = KV on my=20 website at:
 
http://kvrr.rrdepot.com/
 
For those of you who don't know, the = KVRR was a=20 9-mile shortline which ran between Belleville and Reedsville, where it = connected=20 with the Mifflin and Centre County Railroad (Milroy Branch of the = PRR).  In=20 1928, the KV extended it's passenger service an additional 7 miles from=20 Reedsville to the PRR main line at Lewistown via trackage rights on the=20 PRR.  Not only did the KV meet PRR main line trains, but it also = used=20 hand-me-down PRR locomotives and cars.
 
Hope you find it = interesting.
 
- Jerry Hartzler: KVRR = Webmaster
 
------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BFC3E1.36B2AB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally/RS3 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:39:49 -0700 Thanks all for the help. Of course, now that I know what the probblem is, I have to kick myself around the block for all the time I spent on them. Particularly those impossible nose grabs.....Arghhhhhhhhh. Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 1:01 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: RE: [PRR] R-50b finally/RS3 Elden, Greg & guys, Now I'm really glad this RS3 subject came up. When I read Elden's comments this morning, they struck a familar chord. I 'knew' there was something I didn't like about the Atlas model...it didn't 'look' right. Folks thought I was nuts when I sold my two used ones at a flea market and spent the proceeds on three new MDC versions, a pretty decent 1956 Official Guide, five pair of CV Bettendorfs still in the plastic boxes and a couple of coal loads, all for the same money. Sometimes ya get lucky. (I've since seen the buyer of the two Atlas engines trying to resell them...maybe he compared them to some prototype photos?) Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:43:41 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Heads Up on P1K C-Liners From: Jerry Britton On 5/22/00 11:24 AM, Rob Schoenberg (robs@actel.com) wrote: > Next month? I got my 3 units from my local dealer last Thursday! They look > great! > It looks like LL finally darkened their DGLE color. I did notice a few > small details that are > different from photos of PRR units but for now at least they're close enough > for me! > Now to just figure out how to add the trainphone antennas! > If you got your last Thursday, you certainly lucked out and were among the first. Since my post this morning I have learned that mine are all en route. They are indeed out earlier than Life Like had promised. In fact, I saw one on eBay this morning! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:56:46 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Jerry, The GLA was certainly the most numerous, almost as numerous as the H21. However, it is the easiest to kitbash. Take the ends off a Bowser H21 and put them on an Accurail USRA 55t. (Then take the endless H21 and put Bethlehem's H25 ends on it! You have to do a little carving on the ribs to get an H25). Westerfield also did a GLA and a GL (or GLCA, I forget which). The GL/GLCA is the most distinctive car with its stamped steel, fish-belly, side sill and also is similar to cars which appeared on other roads at the turn of the (20th) century. A long time ago MR ran a "Dollar Car" article on scratch building that car or one like it. I believer the GLC is a rare animal (by Pennsy standards). My vote therefor goes to the GL or GLCA whichever Westerfield has not yet done. They too were quite numerous on the PRR up to the early 50's. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > Lee English of Bowser has a request... he has pretty much decided to do a GL > hopper. He has all the research info on the complete family, but he has > decided that if the project becomes a "go", he is only going to do one > variant. Apparently they were all slightly different lengths, so it is not > conducive to doing all variants from one basic mold. > > If you are interested in HO scale GL hoppers, please respond to me so I can > compile the responses and forward them to Lee. Please put the following in > the order of your preference: > > Any GL > GL > GLa > GLc > GLca > other* (specify) > > * I don't even know offhand if there were others, but "other" is available > to cover all bases!!! > > Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brooks" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:11:10 -0400 I, too, would like to see an H25. It probably will never happen with Bowser because the differences between the H21 and H25 aren't that noticable to most modelers - excepting all of us on this list (of course). I'm just amazed they haven't taken their H21 and lettered it as an H25. Brian Brooks > I thought they would some day follow the H21 with an H25. > > Dave Pfeiffer > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] C415 / BS24 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:17:13 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC411.92338000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have a couple of questions and I hope someone knows the answers! The first thing is I am thinking of maning an Mon Con C415 and caboose, = I have found a 3/4 view of the C415 in colour on the web but nothing = else about the Mon Con RR either on the web or any any of my books, is = there anything else. The second thing is I was reading an old RMC about modifing the Stewart = AS616 into a RT 624 (BS24) transfer unit and as Stewart is due to = reissue the model I was looking for a drawing of some sort. The only one = I can loacte is for the Lima version, which I assume was somewhat = different! Many thanks=20 Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC411.92338000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
 
I have a couple of questions and I hope = someone=20 knows the answers!
 
The first thing is I am thinking of = maning an Mon=20 Con C415 and caboose, I have found a 3/4 view of the C415 in colour on = the web=20 but nothing else about the Mon Con RR either on the web or any any of my = books,=20 is there anything else.
 
The second thing is I was reading an = old RMC about=20 modifing the Stewart AS616 into a RT 624 (BS24) transfer unit and as = Stewart is=20 due to reissue the model I was looking for a drawing of some sort. The = only one=20 I can loacte is for the Lima version, which I assume was somewhat=20 different!
 
Many thanks
 
Patrick = Grace
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFC411.92338000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Brian Brooks" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:28:05 -0400 > The GLA was certainly the most numerous, almost as numerous as the H21. > However, it is the easiest to kitbash. Take the ends off a Bowser H21 > and put them on an Accurail USRA 55t. (Then take the endless H21 and put > Bethlehem's H25 ends on it! You have to do a little carving on the ribs > to get an H25). Great idea using the H25 ends, Andy. However, the side stakes on the H25 were deeper than those on the H21. Do you just flatten the stakes and live with the difference? > Westerfield also did a GLA and a GL (or GLCA, I forget which). > My vote therefor goes to the GL or GLCA whichever Westerfield has not > yet done. They too were quite numerous on the PRR up to the early 50's. > Regards, > > Andy Miller Al has done the GL, GLa, GLb, GLc and GLca. Brian Brooks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:45:14 +0100 Kris & the list. I've put a picture on the website which confirms the advice given re the water hatch...... i.e. single & parallel to tender rear. http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/prr_pics/contents.htm then click on the 'STEAM' button. Some more pictures of various PRR locos have been up-loaded as well. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Kris Kollar To: Sent: 19 May 2000 04:23 Subject: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Can any one tell me if the 110P75a tender used behind the K4 would have had a single large, rectangular water hatch located parallell to the rear of the tender or..... if it had dual large rectangular hatches that were parallel to each side of the tender? Also would this tender have had a cover/hatch that would sit on top of the water scoop pipe. I've seen this feature on some tenders with water scoops but not all. The book, "The Many Faces of the K4", has scale drawings of the 110P75a. I'm not sure but it may have a drawing of the top of this tender. If someone who has the book could look for me I'd be much appreciative. This info is for my current K4 project. Thanks, Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:11:50 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers In a message dated 5/22/00 11:09:16 AM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << (Then take the endless H21 and put Bethlehem's H25 ends on it! You have to do a little carving on the ribs to get an H25). >> As usual, Andy, you caught a subtle point. For a long time (until I studied the Keystone article a long time) , I thought the only difference was the ends. I am now thinking I could salvage the sides of my old unbuilt Roller Bearing Models H25 kits, add them to the BCW ends and a Bowser chassis, and go! Problem would be those RBM sides, which were the only good detail feature of the kit, are so brittle one slip and you have a pile of resin dust. Or I could get around to painting the couple Sunset brass ones I purchased. Except I have studied them casually and am afraid to study more closely because I think they missed the side rib difference! I don't want to make a firm statement until I have mic'd them. Hope I don't have to put the RBM sides on the Sunset model to correct it :-). All projects ranked about 187 on my list of things to do. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:02:10 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's To all N8 fans, There is an HO scale N8 kit, the nearly 30 year old Quaility Craft wood and brass kit. It shows up fairly regularly on E-Bay usually going for $30-$35 dollars. I find ttem at train shows for much less. I bought mine about four years ago for $8 and it was in perfect condition. It looks so purty in the box that Ihaven't yet ahd the heart to build it. Any body who has, please educate me as to the best adhesieve to use binding the brass parts to the wood parts. The other choice is the TYCO/Mantua kitbash last described in print in what I believe was the Martin Borthers debut article in the Nov. 1990 issue of Mainline Modeler. Ed Martin built the car and did the story while Greg shot the pictures. Ed's been considering updating the article for a couple of years now using some of the Bower parts and a .05" overlay on the side an ends that would be embossed with rivets. While Ed's 1990 story is the best, it was not the first. The earliest I've seen in print is a RMC quick & dirty bash that appeared in a June 1969 isssue (I think. I've misplaced my copy.) A better version appeared in the April 1982 MR. If you're modeling true to proptype 1962 and earler, The N8 show be your rarest cabin car,showing up only through hotshot freights. Before 1962, N6b, N5 would be most common. Tom V ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:22:14 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Hopper Survey --On Sam, 20. Mai 2000 17:25 +0000 Brian Carlson wrote: > The athearn twin is a good approximation of the H31, it even has the trust > plate molded on the corner. But your right to be statistically correct most > layouts would only need 1 or 2 H31's. Since my layout is set in the late 1930s, my statistically correct roster contains NO H-31's. So, there is at least ONE advantage to life on the lunatic fringe. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:29:28 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's From: Jerry Britton In reviewing the Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment volume for 1954, there are about a dozen 8-1-2's on the roster. Branchline Trains has opted to do Centfaun, Centhill, and Centwood. All but Centwood have ice a/c. Branchline's web site notes that they accurately model the correct a/c for each road name, so the three cars should be accurate. Anyway, my question is this: Of the remaining 8-1-2's, were they all the same floor plan, or were there variances within the 8-1-2 capacity? I tried to check this on Garry Spear's listing on the PRRT&HS site, but it was among the pages removed. I had saved an old copy to disk, but it shows only one 8-1-2 other than the aforementioned three. Not sure of the era of Gary's listing, but it obviously is not an "all-time" list. Of the four he does list, they are all the same plan. I ask this as my modeling needs will require more than three 8-1-2's. If they are all the same plan, I might as well buy some extra Branchline Cars and just reletter (or repaint) them as needed. You want some good news? Branchline has released suggested retail pricing for these new cars... $39.95. I don't know about you, but I'm ecstatic!!! P.S. Doesn't look like the 10-1-2's survived into 1954. I can't find them in the ORPTE. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:37:51 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers GLa gets my vote. Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:51:50 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] SURVEY - HO Scale GL Hoppers As a novice, I have no strong opinion but....after looking at the nice photos of all the choices (which are listed on the Westerfield site, as he makes models of all of them), I would vote for a GL/GLc/GLca since it is visually most striking and stands out in a line of straight sill hoppers. (The GL's also appear in many of the old Delmarva photos so are appealing to me.) Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:50:04 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR]Helium Cars Barry and ALL, Let us not forget that the Helium cars that have been offered in either brass (Pecos River) or the old AHM car had a loaded weight higher than cars at that period. So it is likely that they were on restricted routings at the time. Thus, they might have been seen (and seen today)on certain trains and mainlines. Just a thought. I have been hanging on to my AHM car for years, and have never done the "rebuild" work on it to bring it up to my standards. I always felt that it would look good in my consist headed to Akron, OH via the Bayard branch. This line could justify the extra weight as the traffic on this branch was designed for slow heavy frieght service. I suppose someday... Greg Martin Barry wrote: >Which brings to mind the helium car observations in this thread. Strange as it may seem, there's an industry near the local horse racing track that is home to a couple such cars. Yesterday I saw two helium cars in the industry yard, usually there's only one. But for the past 15 years, with only a couple exceptions, I've been able to count on seeing at least one such car. On the other hand, I've never seen one in a train, anywhere, at least in person. Wish I could find an Ambroid kit at a decent price with all the parts! Oh well, good discussion, guys. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's On Mon, 22 May 2000 LINESWEST@aol.com wrote: > The other choice is the TYCO/Mantua kitbash last described in print > in what I believe was the Martin Borthers debut article in the Nov. 1990 > issue of Mainline Modeler. Ed Martin built the car and did the story > while Greg shot the pictures. Ed's been considering updating the article > for a couple of years now using some of the Bower parts and a .05" Other way around, Greg's article and Ed's pictures. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] C415 / BS24 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:25:05 -0700 Hi Patrick, I only know a little about this one, but here goes; There IS very little on the Mon Con, but there is a photo of their "one-of-a-kind" C-415 in, I believe, "Rails Northeast", which gives you an idea what the low cab looks like, the "late" paint job, c.1970's?? (I honestly don't know what it looked like "as delivered"), and the weird "Hi-Ad" trucks. Somebody made resin Hi-Ad sideframes once upon a time. Goood luck with this one. I've done a few hard kitbashes, and this will be in there with them. It's on my "to do, but only when I get brave" list. I'm doing other MonCons in the meantime! You can use the old AHM (?) shell, which isn't as bad as some, but you will have to do your best for a drive unit. Arghhhh. Smokey Valley stanchions. The roof shouldn't be too hard, but the paint, whoooooo knows..... Plan on your own decals. The AS-616 shell kitbash is one some of us have done, at least partway, but mine was not good enough, it's not even straight, so it stays in a box. The problem is that you really have to saw the hood sides up into seperate sections to get the proper radiator section orientation with the remainder of the hood sides, you have to shorten the hood portion PLUS the radiator section, and OUCH if you decide you have to have one of the dynamic brake models. The underframe/side of frame section is mostly scratch. The cab needs to be redone. The ends have to be scratched or heavily bashed, as it has a distinct taper to a point, and relocated headlights. I spliit mine carefully down the center and reolcated the headlight using the old ring. You'll have to scratch the end handrail/mu assemblies. You can use the old Utah Pacific antenna things for the Trainphone, and GP7/9 yard receiver for the one on the "Front" of the engine. Remember the striped end is the front! The roof needs to have the hatches relocated and the top radiator segment set in flush. There is a good photo to follow in Pennsy Power 2. The only commonality with the Lima Transfer is the Commonwealth trucks. You will get the PRR builder's award if you do this one. Where are you modeling that you need one of these babies? 30th Street? Pitcairn? If you are as brave as you seem, drop me a line and we can talk more, Elden -----Original Message----- From: pgrace [mailto:pgrace@aspects.net] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:17 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] C415 / BS24 Hello, I have a couple of questions and I hope someone knows the answers! The first thing is I am thinking of maning an Mon Con C415 and caboose, I have found a 3/4 view of the C415 in colour on the web but nothing else about the Mon Con RR either on the web or any any of my books, is there anything else. The second thing is I was reading an old RMC about modifing the Stewart AS616 into a RT 624 (BS24) transfer unit and as Stewart is due to reissue the model I was looking for a drawing of some sort. The only one I can loacte is for the Lima version, which I assume was somewhat different! Many thanks Patrick Grace ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:11:59 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's 1. What happened to all the "Oak" series 8-1-2s on the PRR? 2. I thought that 10-1-2s were the common protection cars for service to Florida and other point South late into the 50s. 3. Will BL do a painted, lettered, but UNNAMED version of the cars? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > In reviewing the Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment volume for > 1954, there are about a dozen 8-1-2's on the roster. > > Branchline Trains has opted to do Centfaun, Centhill, and Centwood. All but > Centwood have ice a/c. Branchline's web site notes that they accurately > model the correct a/c for each road name, so the three cars should be > accurate. > > Anyway, my question is this: Of the remaining 8-1-2's, were they all the > same floor plan, or were there variances within the 8-1-2 capacity? > > I tried to check this on Garry Spear's listing on the PRRT&HS site, but it > was among the pages removed. I had saved an old copy to disk, but it shows > only one 8-1-2 other than the aforementioned three. Not sure of the era of > Gary's listing, but it obviously is not an "all-time" list. Of the four he > does list, they are all the same plan. > > I ask this as my modeling needs will require more than three 8-1-2's. If > they are all the same plan, I might as well buy some extra Branchline Cars > and just reletter (or repaint) them as needed. > > You want some good news? Branchline has released suggested retail pricing > for these new cars... $39.95. I don't know about you, but I'm ecstatic!!! > > P.S. Doesn't look like the 10-1-2's survived into 1954. I can't find them in > the ORPTE. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] Athearn Hoppers/Rosters/Helium Cars Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:27:30 -0700 Hi all, I know this one generates some feelings, particularly if you already have an idea about what you want, or if you commited major $ to a fleet already. Like me. (Sound of me crying) Some time ago, I was troubled about what my ORER's were telling me, versus what I saw in photos of my chosen modeling locations. The most troubling was the assumption I was making that there should be percentages you can apply based on statistics derived from the ORER, particularly for a location like the Monongahela Branch. They usually tell you that PRR had x% boxcars, followed by x% hoppers, etc. Trouble is, you guys are right. It is location specific. It is far better to examine your traffic base, photos of yards (filled, of course), and of trains behind the motive power. I originally had lots of 40' boxcars, based on the ORER numbers. Based on my recollections, this was off, though, as although many of the shippers on the Mon used them, these were the little guys (like, one boxcar a week), and they were low in numbers compared to those numbers generated by the big shippers like USSteel and the mines. The best thing for me was to find out who and how many might have been generated. Knowing that 90+% of the traffic leaving Shire Oaks was filled hoppers still didn't fix things, though, as SO was a coal classifier, and much of the other traffic was classified elsewhere! I eventually reduced the shippers list via the CT1000, and then tried to figure out how many car loads per day each was receiving, then match that to the number of trains, knowing how many cars they averaged during that time period. It was (and is!) actually very fun. It also points out my error. If I was modeling St Louis, then you would not see the "representative" number of hoppers you might think from the ORER. And you probably WOULD see a preponderance of boxes. I would not, on the Mon, south of Thomson Yard, see ANY big boxcars, as there was no autoparts traffic south of Thomson. In Thomson itself, you would see LOTS of double-door 50' boxes due to its being a classification yard for traffic out of GM's Irvin Fisher Body plant. You would also not see a lot of twins in my timeframe, as the coal producers primarily shipped in triples and quads, because of the bituminous trades use of these for big users (powerplants, coke plants, etc). It's a very interesting subject, which hasn't gotten a lot of airplay in the mags. And then, of course, it all depends on whether or not you are interested in this sort of esoterica...... I'd sure like to talk to those that are! Elden -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com [mailto:BPX29@aol.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 7:04 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Athearn Hoppers/Rosters/Helium Cars Ben & folks, Good postings on this subject! I'm well aware of the 'local mix' factor in determining freight car fleets, I just wanted to point out the inherent weakness of using a 'proportional mix' to build a fleet. In other words, we can't always say in one breath 'we can't use the Athearn because it's too scarce' and in the next breath say 'but we can use XYZ even though it's too scarce'. I just couldn't think of a good example where an Athearn twin would be more likely than a GL car. You'd have to figure that coal yards or other one-car industries might prefer a 50-ton load to a 70 ton, so a twin hopper would be more likely than a tripple, on account of clearance or weight restrictions. Still, a GL or H31 is a twin, so the more numerous class would be the most likely to be used. Regardless, I'd prefer the Athearn to an Accurail USRA, as the Pennsy at least had H31's. The lowly gondola was the general purpose car of the steam era, being 17% of all freight cars against the flat's 2.5%, and this would bear out with most loadings. Even the granite-hauling Rutland made gons out of many of their flats because of that type's greater utility and much of what could go on a flat could also go on a gon, but not vice-versa. Course, truck trailers would look like heck in a gon, and I've never heard of a depressed-center gon, so we're indeed back to exaimining the local traffic base to really determine what we need on our layouts. Which brings to mind the helium car observations in this thread. Strange as it may seem, there's an industry near the local horse racing track that is home to a couple such cars. Yesterday I saw two helium cars in the industry yard, usually there's only one. But for the last 15 years, with only a couple exceptions, I've been able to count on seeing at least one such car. On the other hand, I've never seen one in a train, anywhere, at least in person. Wish I could find an Ambroid kit at a decent price with all the parts! Oh well, good discussion, guys. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:28:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's Jerry, et al, Your question prompted me to take a look at Wayner's 1961 Pullman list, which is of course much shortened from his earlier ones. There are, however, some Pennsy cars of the 8-1-2 configuration listed as held in government storage as of 1961. Ones that pop out include Council Oak (3979A plan),Arthur Brisbane (same plan), Bartram Oak, Bear Oak, Black Oak, Royal Oak,Salem Oak, Spanish Oak,Treaty Oak,Wadsworth Oak, all same plan. Another active PRR car was White Oak, also 3979A. Guess it would be safe to use any of those nanes in 1954. I'm really looking forward to the release of these cars, and am quite curious regarding future types. I keep hoping for an 8S-Lounge and a 6s-6db, but beggers can't be choosers, as they say. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:40:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Athearn Hoppers/Rosters/Helium Cars Elden, I don't know if you're familar with the LDSIG/OPSIG email list (on egroups/onelist), but Bill Jewitt of the operations group has recently posted the site for an industry data base. Carelessly, I deleted the site address but could get it back for the asking. Apparently the data base gives specific locations with loads in and out per year, and, I think, the types. Perhaps someone on Prr-talk has tried that site? Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:53:15 EDT Subject: [PRR] "O" scale N-8's Here's ONE thing that "O" scale has that you guys don't! MTH Trains gave us BOTH an N-5c and an N-8, in plastic, complete with interiors, lights and a little guy drinking a cup of coffee in the cupola. The N-8's came with antennas and markers and now the N5c is available that way too - MTH also makes a "decent" X-29, a bit heavy on the rivets, unless you buy the diecast metal version. We still don't have anything close to an acceptable PRR Hopper car, of any type, at much less than $150 per copy - and brass H-21's are ranging up over $300, less paint trucks and couplers. Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:54:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] 1922 Loco Cyclopedia In a message dated 5/18/2000 11:37:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, driskel@humanitas.ucsb.edu writes: << Hi Rick, Found this item listed within a rather long Email: RELoc 31 1922 Locomotive Cyclopedia 1922 - 1155pp (complete, no writing), gold-stamped spine. Pages excellent, endpapers yellowing, binding trying to separate from inside back cover. Cover's outside corners and back show some wear. What's the scoop? - Dana Driskel SLR >> 1. Hopefully, it's correct that you should be on our distribution list for books and/or paper railroadiana, but not our list for hardware nor the one for photographs. 2. As you'd assume from the date, this is a USRA-era Locomotive Cyclopedia, a large hardcovered book/publication from Simmons-Boardman crammed with a) AAR mechanical standards, b) photos of recent production, and c) ads by loco builders and parts vendors. The Loco Cyc came out every few years, and is a key source to show what's new and modern (and faddish) in a given period. 3. This copy is in very good condition for its age, but was used in the L&N mechanical department at South Louisville Shops, so it's not mint. On the other hand, the pages are fairly clean, and the book is complete with no pages or pictures snipped out. 4. As you know, this auction closes in two days. Get your initial bid to me before Tuesday night so you can revisit it and rebid Wednesday during the day. 5. Would anyone onlist like to add comments about the usefulness of these old Loco Cyclopedias? I've really only been exposed to them because Jack Fravert left behind several..... Thanks, Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:25:58 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's > >> Snip > > Anyway, my question is this: Of the remaining 8-1-2's, were they all the > same floor plan, or were there variances within the 8-1-2 capacity? > > I tried to check this on Garry Spear's listing on the PRRT&HS site, but it > was among the pages removed. I had saved an old copy to disk, but it shows > only one 8-1-2 other than the aforementioned three. Not sure of the era of > Gary's listing, but it obviously is not an "all-time" list. Of the four he > does list, they are all the same plan. > >> Snip > The floor plan for all the PRR 8-1-2's is the same. But the windows and not the same. The PRR had 19 8-1-2 cars. The three PRR cars that Branchline is doing are from builders lot #6205 in 1928. The other 16 PRR cars are from builder's lots 6353 and 6359 in 1929, and lot 6377 in 1930. The lot #6205 (Branchline Version) should have three full height windows in the woman's lounge. The other three PRR lots have a short window in the center of the three woman's lounge windows. I had many emails with Branchline and others about this subject and why not other PRR names. Branchline is only painting and nameing correct cars. That is why the PRR only gets 3 names. My 8-1-2 is from an AHM car with a NERS conversion kit. Sort of a fun project. Maybe if we are lucky the NERS parts will match and fit the Branchline body. This would be a one window replacement. My list. Well I don't know what to say. The web pages are TRASH. I have been complaining from the day they were first installed. My work contains a title page and seven sections. The put up the title page and the parlor and sleeper sections. The two sections are missing about 70% of the data, worthless and misleading. I even taught myself HTML and rebuilt the parlor and sleeper sections. Then I did the other 5 sections and added a new section. I contacted the web guys in April and offered them the updated and new pages. To date they have not contacted me. The PRR had 126 standard weight (PRR for heavyweight) parlor cars and 465 standard weight sleeper cars. All cars are accounted for in my list. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:18:23 -0400 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] N8 and N5C Howdy gang- How different is the N8 cabin car from the N5C? They look identical to me. How many of each are still in use on CR, NS, or CSX? NS has an N5C in CR paint and reporting marks at Monroe, MI. It is used on the YDMR-30 local. Thank you- Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:43:49 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] 90F82 tender Dayna, list, I just completed a layout-quality model of I1sa 4483. I used Bowser's 2989 Andrews trucks, and they look right to me. They are insulated on one side only. Don Harper is working on a pair of I1sa engines; he may have an even better suggestion. Rest assured, I will buy at least a pair of 90F82s; one for my I1sa, and another for my H10s (my model of the 7688 has a Lines West tender, which is inappropriate for stoker fired H10s engines). This is a much-needed model, and I eagerly await it's eventual release! Doug DWa9975062@aol.com wrote: > Listers - Thank you for the many kind words. As soon as the tenders are > finished I'm sure Jerry will let you all know. Remember if you buy them from > him you keep the list going. And isn't that what we're all about? One more > thing. How about some trucks? Remember...they have to carry electricity AND > be correct. So if you have any information e-mail me off list. And thank you > all again. You're a great bunch of guys. > Dayna > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:27:20 -0400 Gary: I have a builder's photo of the B60A car with a "Turtle" roof and end doors like the later horse cars and theater scenery haulers. I am going to do a drawing of this car as soon as I finish the B60 project. Any info you get, please forward to me for use with the drawing. Thanks a lot, Lew Matt -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, May 18, 2000 10:09 PM Subject: [PRR] B60A Headend Cars List, I seem to be short of info on the B60A Class headend cars. This car is similar to the B60 Baggage Car but had end doors applied on one end at some point in time. The info I need to know is Car Numbers in the series and how many were in use. And as an added luxury, when did they disappear from service? TIA!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Former PRR York Haven Line Activity Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:52:03 -0400 I believe the old Northern Central ran around the Enola Yard on the East Side and went on to Marysville. One run around track is still in place. After the PRR acquired NCR did they make a connection to Enola? Did the NCR create the original Marysville yard? I believe the NCR also crossed over the Susquehanna just north of Marysville. Piers still in place. Roy Breon Pittsford, NY roybreon@netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 9:53 AM Subject: [PRR] Former PRR York Haven Line Activity >Yesterday I happened by the former PRR RoW on the York Haven line at York >Haven, Pa. > >The York Haven line was the stretch from the south end of Enola to Wago >Junction. It included the twin tracks of the Northern Central Branch and the >twin tracks of the Atglen & Susquehanna Branch. It has long had the NCR's >two tracks torn up, leaving only two tracks. > >I was surprised yesterday to find piles of new ties and rail, plus some >prefabricated track sections -- prototype SnapTrack -- piled along the >existing two trucks. > >Further investigation DOES NOT suggest that this is replacement of existing >ties and rail. There are stakes, orange spray paint markings -- both along >the RoW and at crossings -- that suggest they are adding a third track!!! > >I did not have time to investigate further south, but the same evidence is >present proceeding north (railroad west) through Cly and into Goldsboro. > >Now the questions are: 1) Is this a new third track? > >If it is, then what is its purpose? Stacking trains for entry into Enola, >perhaps? > >But as the line passes north/west of New Cumberland, the old NC Branch >elevated as the A&S remained low. There are numerous places on the lower >line that are not wide enough for a third track. Does this mean the third >track would be relaid on the old NC RoW? >--------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com >Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". > _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:15:50 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] FW: Heads Up on P1K C-Liners This is quite interseting...I was at the local GATS show over the weekend, and saw a guy with some on his table (he had a bunch of PRR diesels...somewhat of a suprise down here in DDArizona!). Nice looking model. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ Jerry Britton wrote: > On 5/22/00 11:24 AM, Rob Schoenberg (robs@actel.com) wrote: > > > Next month? I got my 3 units from my local dealer last Thursday! They look > > great! > > It looks like LL finally darkened their DGLE color. I did notice a few > > small details that are > > different from photos of PRR units but for now at least they're close enough > > for me! > > Now to just figure out how to add the trainphone antennas! > > > If you got your last Thursday, you certainly lucked out and were among the > first. Since my post this morning I have learned that mine are all en route. > They are indeed out earlier than Life Like had promised. In fact, I saw one > on eBay this morning! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:21:17 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's I would think that Pliobond would be the best for adhering brass to wood. Interesting comment about how common these seem to be somewhere...I saw it briefly when they came out and never since. I guess living in Espeeland (whoops...make that exEspeeland) has it's drawbacks! Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:23:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 and N5C In a message dated 5/22/00 7:29:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jknorek@mail.msen.com writes: << NS has an N5C in CR paint and reporting marks at Monroe, MI. It is used on the YDMR-30 local. >> CSX, Cleveland, operates an N-5c Roof and undercarriage are Black Caboose body is Gray and marked "NYC" I saw it earlier today: crews must trust it, the train was running at 30 - 35 MPH with the Caboose leading - and the locomotive trailing Interesting that some N-5's still survive - but no reports of sightings the newer N-8's ? Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:25:28 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRR]Helium Cars TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: > Barry and ALL, > > Let us not forget that the Helium cars that have been offered in either brass (Pecos River) or the old AHM car had a loaded weight higher than cars at that period. So it is likely that they were on restricted routings at the time. Thus, they might have been seen (and seen today)on certain trains and mainlines. Just a thought. Probably explains why they were equipped with clasp brakes! And if that isn't enough, when they were common down here in exEsPeeLand (beats LarryLand) I always saw them in pairs...not suprising since the couplers between them were locked to keep them in pairs. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 and N5C Dick, About 2 years ago down in Wellsburg or is it Wellsville, WV, me and my buddy spotted an N8 (CR # 23399 ex PRR #?) sitting idle with a pair of Conrail Locos (#8254 and ?). Several minutes later a crew showed up, backed up of the siding and on to the live tracks. I yelled over to the conductor standing on the N8 platform asking if it was still in active service and he yelled over yes. The cabin had one crushed (not bad) platform. Still in Conrail colors. That was little while ago so maybe she is retired now. Hope not....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:44:05 EDT Subject: [PRR] GP30 expert Guys - I need some assistance from anyone who knows a lot about the Pennsy GP30 during 1964-66. Anyone who may be able to help can contact me offline. Thanks Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:54:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] C415 / BS24 Patrick, If by Mon Con you mean Mononogahela Connecting Railroad I have a diesel rooster that's from the mid-sixties. If you'd like a scan, e-mail me off line. They liked ALCos. This roster shows S-2, S-4, T-6, RS-11 and a single DL-415 #701. Ed Martin " a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:03:34 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Tom and All, Gee Tom thanks, but that's Greg's article. I just helped with the photos. Greg has been kicking around the idea of updating that article. Come on Tom, you're going to get me into trouble! Yikes! Ed Martin "a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:28:58 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] N8 and N5C Jeff, You said, "They look identical to me." We need to work with you for a bit. Yikes! ;^) First notice the windows in the sides. The N-5c's are round, the N-8's are recetangular. The end platforms on the N-8 are purposefully large and note the short wall or fence next to the steps. The cupolas though stlyed the same are different in overall length. Did I mention the windows? The N-8 is equipped with a cushioned underframe, the N-5c is not. For the most part the N-8 is of welded construction, the N-5c is revited. My friend if you have a real live N-5c near you be happy! They are truely rare. Photogragh the heck out of it. The N-5c is one of Pennsy's "war babies" and they out style anything built before or since. Ed Martin "a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RTSILLER@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:38:46 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] 110P75a Tender Kris and the list, I was moving some books around when I happened upon "Pennsy K-4's Remembered" by Frederick Kramer. Took a moment to glance through it and noticed on the inside back cover a great photo from the back of the tender of K4 #3760 taking on water. The hatch is open and it is the type that is parallel to the rear of the tender. Not being as proficient at tender spotting as some, it would appear to be a 110P75a tender. Regards, Rick Siller <> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:42:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's In a message dated 5/22/00 5:28:16 PM Central Daylight Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << 2. I thought that 10-1-2s were the common protection cars for service to Florida and other point South late into the 50s.>> Perhaps Pullman pool cars, rather than PRR-decorated, cars were used? <<3. Will BL do a painted, lettered, but UNNAMED version of the cars? >> Raises a point ahout the painting in general. With or without postwar striping? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Re: N8 Memories!! (was: re: N8 and N5C) List, Since the N8 talk continues I thought I would throw this url at you. It is of a Pennsy N8 retored to all its glory. It belongs to a member of the Beaver Valley Chapter of the NHRS. Location is New Castle, Pa. He even had the radio discs cast from orignals. Pretty Nice!!! http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4s/new25.jpg Oh yeah, beside it is a recently acquired N5c.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:13:45 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: N8 Memories!! (was: re: N8 and N5C) In a message dated 5/22/00 8:55:12 PM Central Daylight Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << Since the N8 talk continues I thought I would throw this url at you. It is of a Pennsy N8 retored to all its glory. It belongs to a member of the Beaver Valley Chapter of the NHRS. Location is New Castle, Pa. He even had the radio discs cast from orignals. Pretty Nice!!! http://homepages.go.com/~prrk4s/new25.jpg Oh yeah, beside it is a recently acquired N5c.....Gary >> I am not sure I posted it to the list in general, but I am almost sure the caboose at Shipshawana, (northern) Indiana, in Amish country, is an N8 in fairly good condition. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] B60 baggage Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:47:11 -0400 Dear List: Anyone know what the undercarraige of the B60 looks like? Anyone want to take a guess? Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:26:01 -0400 From: Garry Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's To all: For PRR car names the Branchline carbody is only correct for the car names Branchline is producing. The other PRR cars have a very slightly different window (shorter) in the center of the woman's lounge. Garry Spear ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:04:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update and Hi Lew & list members, Sorry to be so long responding to this. > Does anyone know of resources concerning the early history of this car? Was > it developed in juxtaposition with the P70 steel passenger cars project for > use in the New York area, under the rivers, to meet the fire code? Do the > two histories (P70 - B60) dovetail? (R60? too?) Short answer is "yes". Steel baggage cars were developed for the same reasons as steel coaches - so they could run in the NY river tunnels without being a fire hazard. M70 rpo is also in this same category, as is BP70 combine - there cars were all developed early on, at roughly the same time, for this reason. > The RR museum of PA has the first PRR steel coach (P58), 1651, restored and > on display. From the gangway on the second floor, I noticed a > pipe/wire/conduit? running down the middle of the clerestory roof, on the > very top. The builder's photo of the B60 vaugely hints at a similar > arraingement on the roof betweeen the vents. Does anyone know what this > wire/pipe/conduit is for? In 1906 (I believe that is when 1651 was built) electric lighting was still in it's infancy. So maybe the electric wiring was run outside in conduit as standard practice at the time. I recently built a similar-era steel SP baggage car, and it also had conduit on the roof. I found out after I had built the car that the prototype car carried a steam-powered dynamo to generate the electricity for the train lighting. Thus the car clearly needed to provide wires to transmit the power. Maybe this was how it was done back then. > I have several photos (on JPG) of the 4 wheel, rivited frame trucks under > the original 1651, the same trucks as shown on the B60's builder's photo. > In Pensy Power III, there are several pix of this truck: P 369 top B60 5518; > P 371 bottom R60, and P376 top P58 1651. Does anyone know the what the > specific class of truck this is? I'll be glad to forward a JPG pix of it > for your identification if the photos in PP3 aren't clear enough. Possibly 2D-P1 or 2C-P1, but I'm not positive. I've seen this style of truck on 1651, and on the very earliest P70 cars, also on early B60 cars. This truck can be kitbashed in N scale from the Lima/ModelPower six-wheel passenger truck. > The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do > not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone > know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very > knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. This is a problem, sorry, I'm of no help here. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:10:20 -0400 Subject: [PRR] FW: IEF name change From: Jerry Britton The message below is from the PRRT&HS web site... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------- From: prrbill Reply-To: prrbill@Op.Net Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 04:40:21 -0400 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: IEF name change After a discussion with Chuck Blardone, Steve (with my concurrence) has changed the name of the PRRT&HS' "Information Exchange Forum" to the "PRRT&HS Discussion Web" to avoid any confusion with the Keystone pages of the same name. The efforts that Captain Jack Witmer, Bill Strassner and Chuck make to answer the technically explicit questions that are published in the Keystone should not be compared (except for Chris Baer's answers) to the responses posted at the IEF. The website's IEF/DW purpose is to allow quick and (hopefully) accurate answers in a relatively short timeframe. The posting explaining the change is below. Bill Morlitz This is an on-line forum called the PRRT&HS Discussion Web. The answers posted here, unless otherwise noted, are solely those of the respondents and are not presented as answers from the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society. The Discussion Web is not associated with the Information Exchange section of the PRRT&HS Keystone publication. The PRRT&HS has provided the Discussion Web as a method for our viewers to share their individually researched answers and PRR experiences. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:18:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Former PRR York Haven Line Activity From: Jerry Britton On 5/22/00 7:52 PM, Roy Breon at (roybreon@netzero.net) wrote: > I believe the old Northern Central ran around the Enola Yard on the East > Side and went on to Marysville. One run around track is still in place. > After the PRR acquired NCR did they make a connection to Enola? Did the NCR > create the original Marysville yard? I believe the NCR also crossed over > the Susquehanna just north of Marysville. Piers still in place. > The Enola Yard was built on land owned by the NCR. The NCR's yard was at Marysville. The PRR and NCR had a crossing at grade just north/west of the Marysville Yard. The Enola Yard and the Rockville Bridge were joint ventures of the PRR and NCR. The Marysville Yard stayed in place but had a lesser role once the above were in place. It still did some work, but that was further reduced once the lead from the bridge south/east into the yard was added in 1938-39. Track in the Marysville Yard lasted at least until the 1950s. Then there was a rail mill/reclaimation facility there prior to construction of the one at Lucknow. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:24:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR 8-1-2's From: Jerry Britton On 5/22/00 6:11 PM, Andy Miller at (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > 1. What happened to all the "Oak" series 8-1-2s on the PRR? Many were renamed in later years. > 2. I thought that 10-1-2s were the common protection cars for service to > Florida and other point South late into the 50s. Can't respond to that. > 3. Will BL do a painted, lettered, but UNNAMED version of the cars? > No. I asked. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:15:28 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: [PRR] Re: [ldsig] Big Boys on a New York Central layout A few days ago, the LDSIG list was having a conversation about visitors runing their cars on your layout...I thought y'all might find this interesting, and I could use any information you might have... >Then, while going through my grandparents old photo albums, I came >across a photo of a Big Boy. It was down the street from their home in >Frankfort, NY, on the New York Central, enroute from Schenectady (where >the Alco plant was) to the Union Pacific. Being such an unusually large >piece of equipment, it warranted two photos by my non-railfan >grandparents. Given how many locomotives Alco was turning out during >its peak, it would seem that someone modeling a nearby road would _have_ >to model the shipments of new locomotives. The Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone PA (just south of Philly), routinely shipped its products via the PRR. These locomotives would "lay over" on Manor Siding in the town of Columbia to cool and check the bearings. There are photos of interesting power including SP cab forwards (1912?), Baldwin's "Prosperity Special" and a large Frisco loco (1941?). Of particular note is that most of these were shipped with the side rods off, and a sign attached to the loco, advertising the builder. They would generally be part of the consist of a freight, consigned to the head end, although often separated from the road power by an idler car or two. So, now all I need to know is to whom, and what classes of loco was Baldwin shipping in June, 1944? Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:22:51 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update Lew, Claus, I am currently working on 5 ECW (nee Bethlehem) B60s and face the same problem. From the collection of fotos in books I own, all I can discern is the battery box on one side, the triple valve and an air tank opposite the battery box, and the belt drive generator on the axle. I cannot see a brake cylinder! I also wonder if the "Messenger" cars had any additional equipment. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Claus Schlund wrote: (in part) > > Hi Lew & list members, > > Sorry to be so long responding to this. > > . . . > > > The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do > > not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone > > know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very > > knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. > > This is a problem, sorry, I'm of no help here. > > - Claus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:33:56 EDT Subject: [PRR] "The Pennsylvania Limited", circa 1898, issued by Lines West Greetings PRR fans, After I wrote the following -- which is about an auction item currently being bid -- I realized I've never described this piece to the "electronic brethren". Since I think this is one of the neatest paper pieces in Jack Fravert's whole estate, I offer the description below for your entertainment. I'll be sorry to see this little folder leave; it represents the best and most elaborate of promotional efforts of Lines West, from an era when it made sense to spend real money to attract the high-end passenger traffic. In any case, how could a PRR fan ignore a 4-4-0 pulling "The Pennsylvania Limited"? BTW, I'd appreciate any help in accurately dating this piece. My best guess is just prior to 1900. __________________________________________________________ The description carried by the system is: PTT-PL "The Pennsylvania Limited" Pullman Vestibule Train 12 panel pamphlet, shows 6 floor plans of narrow vestibuled cars. Engraved by American Bank Note in metallic inks. The description stops there, probably because Access (my database program) will only allow 255 characters max in a field. I'm concerned that you get the rest of the story: 1. Printed on a card 19 3/4 long by 6 3/8" tall, this folder is printed - or should I say engraved - in peach, brown, and copper-highlighted-foil inks. 2. This item is undated, but unmistakably from the very first days of the Pennsylvania Limited, before this train became the Broadway and the name Pennsylvania Limited was handed down to a lesser train. This folder was issued by the passenger department, Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh, and the first official listed is E.A. Ford, who was General Passenger Agent of Lines West into the early 1900's. But I'm almost positive that this item was issued just before 1900. 3. The litho'ed pictures, plus the cars' floor diagrams, show narrow vestibules, which were top-drawer for only a fleeting period before wide vestibules came in. Obviously, a train with vestibules was new and exciting when this folder was issued -- the front cover reads "Pullman Vestibule Train" below a splashy script "The Pennsylvania Limited". Also, the litho'ed side drawing of the train (pulled by a 4-4-0 and spanning the top of 4 panels), is labeled "Pullman Vestibule Train". 4. Being issued by Lines West, the folder has some characteristic quirks -- the keystone on the cover reads "Pennsylvania Lines" between two pairs of diagonal lines. The cartooned map on the back reads "Outline Map of the Pennsylvania Short Lines". Plus, the extra-fare table shows Chicago as the origin point (maximum surcharge $5.00 east of Harrisburg). The text assures Cincinnati and Columbus passengers that their through Pullman will be added to the train at Pittsburgh. Cleveland passengers, or Indianapolis passengers via the PCC&StL, "will make direct connections with the Pennsylvania Limited at Pittsburgh". Note: the PCC&StL Ry is referred to as "Pan Handle Route", in three words. 5. The "For Reservations" section names individuals in various on-and-offline PRR passenger offices: a. J.H. Luce, PRR Chicago b. H.R., Dering, PRR Cincinnati c. William Be Dell, PRR San Francisco d. J.G. Ruple, DPA PRR ? OH e. R.H. Lacey, PRR ? TN f. George R. Thompson, PRR Lexington KY g. Geo. T. Hull, PRR Denver CO h. J.M. Greaves, PRR St. Paul, MN i. George Jenkins, PRR Dubuque IA j. Thos. H. Thorp, PRR Davenport IA k. G.B. Teedrick, PRR Milwaukee WI 6. The whole six panels of the back is devoted to litho'ed scenes inside the cars, with a floor diagram across the bottom of each. The train included: a. baggage/smoker (with library and bathtub). b. dining car seating 40. c. sleeper, with two drawing rooms and twelve sections. The train carried two of these sleepers. d. sleeper, with drawing room shown "en suite". e. sleeper/observation, with six sections, a sitting room with armchairs, and of course an open platform for the daring. The man and boy on the platform are hanging onto their hats, ensuring we understand the great speed involved here (Chicago to New York in 26 hours). 7. With all this mouthwatering detail and artwork, from so long ago, it would be wonderful if this piece was at least in good condition. Alas, it has seen a lot of wear. Of the five folds between six physical panels, four of those folds have been mended with tape (at least it's good clear tape). There's more tape around about a third of the top and bottom; for one thing, it mends the chewed place at the bottom of the fifth panel. Adding insult to injury, every one of the six panels on one side (covers and four more) were stuck to a lined sheet of paper at some point. I suppose this was done to display the interior lithos on the other side. In any case, fragments of this sheet and the glue remain, defacing each of these six panels. Luckily, the "inside", with car interiors, is only old and worn, but otherwise intact, displaying the considerable artistic effort that went into this piece. 8. All in all, this item is as much of a tradeoff as anything we have offered from the Jack Fravert collection. It's historically significant, in sad shape, and yet still a thing of beauty. I thought you should understand what you're bidding on. As always, if you should win this but decide not to keep it, you can return it for a full refund. Thanks, Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:33:56 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] Other = "The Pennsylvania Limited", circa 1898, issued by Lines West Greetings PRR fans, After I wrote the following -- which is about an auction item currently being bid -- I realized I've never described this piece to the "electronic brethren". Since I think this is one of the neatest paper pieces in Jack Fravert's whole estate, I offer the description below for your entertainment. I'll be sorry to see this little folder leave; it represents the best and most elaborate of promotional efforts of Lines West, from an era when it made sense to spend real money to attract the high-end passenger traffic. In any case, how could a PRR fan ignore a 4-4-0 pulling "The Pennsylvania Limited"? BTW, I'd appreciate any help in accurately dating this piece. My best guess is just prior to 1900. __________________________________________________________ The description carried by the system is: PTT-PL "The Pennsylvania Limited" Pullman Vestibule Train 12 panel pamphlet, shows 6 floor plans of narrow vestibuled cars. Engraved by American Bank Note in metallic inks. The description stops there, probably because Access (my database program) will only allow 255 characters max in a field. I'm concerned that you get the rest of the story: 1. Printed on a card 19 3/4 long by 6 3/8" tall, this folder is printed - or should I say engraved - in peach, brown, and copper-highlighted-foil inks. 2. This item is undated, but unmistakably from the very first days of the Pennsylvania Limited, before this train became the Broadway and the name Pennsylvania Limited was handed down to a lesser train. This folder was issued by the passenger department, Pennsylvania Lines West of Pittsburgh, and the first official listed is E.A. Ford, who was General Passenger Agent of Lines West into the early 1900's. But I'm almost positive that this item was issued just before 1900. 3. The litho'ed pictures, plus the cars' floor diagrams, show narrow vestibules, which were top-drawer for only a fleeting period before wide vestibules came in. Obviously, a train with vestibules was new and exciting when this folder was issued -- the front cover reads "Pullman Vestibule Train" below a splashy script "The Pennsylvania Limited". Also, the litho'ed side drawing of the train (pulled by a 4-4-0 and spanning the top of 4 panels), is labeled "Pullman Vestibule Train". 4. Being issued by Lines West, the folder has some characteristic quirks -- the keystone on the cover reads "Pennsylvania Lines" between two pairs of diagonal lines. The cartooned map on the back reads "Outline Map of the Pennsylvania Short Lines". Plus, the extra-fare table shows Chicago as the origin point (maximum surcharge $5.00 east of Harrisburg). The text assures Cincinnati and Columbus passengers that their through Pullman will be added to the train at Pittsburgh. Cleveland passengers, or Indianapolis passengers via the PCC&StL, "will make direct connections with the Pennsylvania Limited at Pittsburgh". Note: the PCC&StL Ry is referred to as "Pan Handle Route", in three words. 5. The "For Reservations" section names individuals in various on-and-offline PRR passenger offices: a. J.H. Luce, PRR Chicago b. H.R., Dering, PRR Cincinnati c. William Be Dell, PRR San Francisco d. J.G. Ruple, DPA PRR ? OH e. R.H. Lacey, PRR ? TN f. George R. Thompson, PRR Lexington KY g. Geo. T. Hull, PRR Denver CO h. J.M. Greaves, PRR St. Paul, MN i. George Jenkins, PRR Dubuque IA j. Thos. H. Thorp, PRR Davenport IA k. G.B. Teedrick, PRR Milwaukee WI 6. The whole six panels of the back is devoted to litho'ed scenes inside the cars, with a floor diagram across the bottom of each. The train included: a. baggage/smoker (with library and bathtub). b. dining car seating 40. c. sleeper, with two drawing rooms and twelve sections. The train carried two of these sleepers. d. sleeper, with drawing room shown "en suite". e. sleeper/observation, with six sections, a sitting room with armchairs, and of course an open platform for the daring. The man and boy on the platform are hanging onto their hats, ensuring we understand the great speed involved here (Chicago to New York in 26 hours). 7. With all this mouthwatering detail and artwork, from so long ago, it would be wonderful if this piece was at least in good condition. Alas, it has seen a lot of wear. Of the five folds between six physical panels, four of those folds have been mended with tape (at least it's good clear tape). There's more tape around about a third of the top and bottom; for one thing, it mends the chewed place at the bottom of the fifth panel. Adding insult to injury, every one of the six panels on one side (covers and four more) were stuck to a lined sheet of paper at some point. I suppose this was done to display the interior lithos on the other side. In any case, fragments of this sheet and the glue remain, defacing each of these six panels. Luckily, the "inside", with car interiors, is only old and worn, but otherwise intact, displaying the considerable artistic effort that went into this piece. 8. All in all, this item is as much of a tradeoff as anything we have offered from the Jack Fravert collection. It's historically significant, in sad shape, and yet still a thing of beauty. I thought you should understand what you're bidding on. As always, if you should win this but decide not to keep it, you can return it for a full refund. Thanks, Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ $60 in FREE Long Distance! Click Here to join beMANY! today. http://click.egroups.com/1/4126/7/_/586931/_/959101322/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:13:53 -0400 Dear Andy et al: My guesss would be that the messenger cars would have a water tank. Sewage tanks didn't come until later. The messengers' toilet would be one of those "Don't flush while the train is in the station" types. Lew Matt -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller To: Claus Schlund Cc: lew matt ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] B60 baggage car kitbash project update andquestions?????? >Lew, Claus, > >I am currently working on 5 ECW (nee Bethlehem) B60s and face the same >problem. From the collection of fotos in books I own, all I can discern >is the battery box on one side, the triple valve and an air tank >opposite the battery box, and the belt drive generator on the axle. I >cannot see a brake cylinder! > >I also wonder if the "Messenger" cars had any additional equipment. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >=================================================== > >Claus Schlund wrote: (in part) >> >> Hi Lew & list members, >> >> Sorry to be so long responding to this. >> >> . . . >> >> > The photos I have and the few pictures I have seen published of the B60 do >> > not show underbody detail very well because of the shadows. Does anyone >> > know what the arraingement is? How about a good guess? since I am not very >> > knowledgable about undercarriage appliances. >> >> This is a problem, sorry, I'm of no help here. >> >> - Claus >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". > >-- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BowerPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:21:24 EDT Subject: [PRR] RE:PRR HO hopper car survey Dear Jerry, While you have Mr. English's ear. You may toss out the idea that the PRR Class G38, G39, G39a ore jennys would a nice addition to Bowser's line. This mention of ore jenny's surfaced awhile back and died off when Walthers issued their non-PRR type ore jennys. But this class of PRR equipment has never been done in plastic (discount MDC's jenny) and would fit the PC and Conrail eras as well. If a good example to model these cars with accurate PRR data is needed. Refer to the January-Feburary 1976 Rails NorthEast article on page 37 by Craig T. Bossler. The manufactures, such as Bowser, should survey the PRR-Talk modelers more often to take the pulse of what class of PRR equipment is most sought after. We have a great opportunity here to influence their future product releases. Sincerely, Brad C. Bower ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: [PRR] Railroads Invest Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:54:12 -0400 Picked this up from one of my mailing lists. Maybe the investment will help the "situation"! \**********************************************************/ Railroads invest $10M in Net-based services site Canadian Pacific Railway, CSX, Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific have formed an alliance and invested $10 million in Arzoon, a California company that will help develop an Internet-based transportation services site. Their goal is to improve service to customers. http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/CWFlash/000523E27A ____________________________________________________________ Roy Breon Pittsford, NY roybreon@netzero.net _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Wayne S. Betty" Subject: RE: [PRR] Baldwin Built? Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:02:27 -0400 Well no small order Dr. Bruce. Unfortunately, John Brown's book stops at 1915, most of the Baldwin internal press works stopped in the mid to late 20's and The Dolzall's wonderful job with the diesel side of things doesn't help either. Maybe a trip to the Hagley Museum would provide the Baldwin shipping records for Steam? According to the Dozall book, American RR purchased 1152 steam engines from all builders during the years 1942 to 1944 and from all that the PRR took (in 1944 ) 20 steam locomotives - 18 of them, home built J1 types (1 Q2 [Juniata] and the S2 [Baldwin] round out the 20) but that's not what you want to know! Sorry can't help much except for the V0-1000 going west - not very much new stuff. Alco was building some Big Boys and NP Challenger types but that doesn't help either. Sorry Cos So, now all I need to know is to whom, and what classes of loco was Baldwin shipping in June, 1944? Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:27:43 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: [PRR] looking for info Listers, Some of you made it to my layout during the convention early this month. I hope that you enjoyed yourselves, I had a ball and will do it again, if asked. Your visits have provided me with the incentive to improve my layout. I have it partially based on the Lebanon Valley Branch and would welcome any info, photos, or resources to improve the credibility of my layout. I was born and raised in Lebanon and lived there for 28 years but I only ever saw one PRR loco in town, and that was derailed at the Bethlehem Steel Plant at Front Street. That was in 1970. I would really like to try to reproduce a small part of Lebanon and there are few, if any, references available. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Nick Kulp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:52:51 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [ldsig] Big Boys on a New York Central layout Bruce and List: Here's some ideas for June 1944 Baldwins through Columbia: From "The Locomotives That Baldwin Built:" 1944: ATSF 2-10-4 1944-45: B&O 2-8-8-4 EM-1 (30 total) However, as B&O's Royal Blue Line came through Philly that railroad may have received them there. From "Diesels from Eddystone: The Story of Baldwin Diesel Locomotives:" 6/44: ATSF 2235-2241 VO-1000 6/44: B&O 423 VO-1000 (see comment above) 6/44: NP 123 VO-1000 6/44: SLSF 218-219 VO-1000 6/44: SP 1374: VO-1000 --Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:38:43 -0400 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days Anyone from the list going to Pennsy Days next week at the RR Museum of Pennsylvania in Lancaster? Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 The Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Ralph J. Marshall" Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:54:46 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [PRR] Seeking modelling help for a PRR B4 shifter I am in the process of converting an HO scale MDC 0-6-0 model to a more accurate version of the B4. I am not looking to do an exact conversion, but do have enough photographs to make a creditable job of it. I have perused the Walthers catalog details section and found most of the parts I need. However, I do not see anything that resembles the large air(?) tanks that are mounted vertically beneath the cab on both sides. I could fake it with some tubing and rivet details, but would rather get something off the shelf. Since I've seen tanks like this on a number of different classes of PRR stuff I'm hoping that somebody has taken the time to make a part for it. So, if you have any suggestions, or want to tell me why this is a terrible idea, or have done something similar, or whatever, please let me know. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Marshall WorldStreet Corp. Technical Lead 465 Medford St. Boston, MA 02129 Email: rmarshall@worldstreet.com Voice: 617/918-2513 http://www.worldstreet.com Fax: 617/918-2501 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:56:07 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFC590.309B2660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm going Mike! I missed the convention...I'm not gonna miss Pennsy = Days. Hey, anybody elso going?=20 Bob Holden PRRT&HS # 5044. Northern Central Chapter. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFC590.309B2660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm going Mike! I missed the convention...I'm not = gonna miss=20 Pennsy Days. Hey, anybody elso going?
Bob Holden
PRRT&HS # 5044. Northern Central Chapter.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BFC590.309B2660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] P-70FBR Parts Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:39:18 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFC5D0.E562F380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List members, Need an email address for the folks over at Eastern Car Works. Would = like to correct a mistake I made and am in need of four sets of body = bolsters for the above kits. So much for mass producing. Would have = better off to "learn" on the first, then build the next three. Thanks in = advance. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFC5D0.E562F380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
List members,
Need an email address for the folks over at Eastern = Car Works.=20 Would like to correct a mistake I made and am in need of four sets of = body=20 bolsters for the above kits. So much for mass producing. Would have = better off=20 to "learn" on the first, then build the next three. Thanks in=20 advance.
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_005B_01BFC5D0.E562F380-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David Luciano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:31:17 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC61B.37106060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, We'll be there displaying our 100 ft operating HO scale model railroad of Strasburg Railroad & Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania at Pennsy Days 2000 June 3-4 Railroad Museum of PA, Strasburg Stop by & say hello Dave Luciano Strasburg Model Railroad Club davsesrr@snip.net www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/6741/ Club Website -----Original Message----- From: rholden To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:56 PM Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days =20 =20 I'm going Mike! I missed the convention...I'm not gonna miss Pennsy = Days. Hey, anybody elso going?=20 Bob Holden PRRT&HS # 5044. Northern Central Chapter. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC61B.37106060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,
We'll be there = displaying=20 our 100 ft operating HO scale model railroad
of Strasburg Railroad & Railroad Museum of=20 Pennsylvania
at Pennsy Days 2000 June 3-4  Railroad Museum = of PA,=20 Strasburg
Stop by & say hello
Dave Luciano
Strasburg Model Railroad Club
davsesrr@snip.net
www.geocities.com= /Heartland/Acres/6741/ =20 Club Website
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 rholden <rholden@superpa.net>
To:= =20 prr-talk@dsop.com = <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:56 PM
Subject: [PRR] Pennsy=20 Days

I'm going Mike! I missed the convention...I'm = not gonna=20 miss Pennsy Days. Hey, anybody elso going?
Bob Holden
PRRT&HS # 5044. Northern Central=20 Chapter.
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BFC61B.37106060-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:19:24 EDT >Anyone from the list going to Pennsy Days next week at the RR Museum of >Pennsylvania in Lancaster? ____________________________________ I'll be there. Andrew Harmantas, SPF from down near C&O Milepost FM Zero. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:16:12 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PM-list] Naperville Meet in Oct.--dates set?? Hey Yuze Gize: I will be there again this year. It will make my 3rd trip for the event. I usually attend the National Hobby show and then some friends and I organize a dinner and invite some manufacturers and an Editor to attend. I know that Stuart Thayer is planning on being there, and Stu bring more models this year! There are several really good modelers that reside in the Chicago area nd generally just lurk on these list. This year I plan to take the entire week off and see all the sights that Chicagoland hass to offer. I will take in some operating sessions with a couple close friends. If you have never been you should make an effort to attend and we can get together and share and refreshment or two. This event is really growing and I believe it will grow again this year. See you there. Greg Martin Jim Six writes: << However, this year I plan to make my first visit to the Naperville gathering. >> ======================================================== Bob writes: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:54:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Ed, Mea culpa, Mea culpa. I just I'll just have to stop referring to this magicicent article on the N8 kitbash that first inspired me to bash kits and build scratches if I can't get it right. To all, please ignore anything Greg may write about the purity of the Mantua kitbash with its substantial metal under frame vs. my preferred method of addind sheet lead to the plastic Tyco underfframe. Greg suffers from a nostalgic attachment the project that launched his writing. While the metal underframe may eliminate one step ion building, altering the platforms is a lot easier wiht the plastic underframe. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:47:23 -0400 PRR-List: Is this article available on-line? Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: LINESWEST@aol.com [mailto:LINESWEST@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 2:54 PM To: ELM2@aol.com; billd@gci-net.com; MarkCFry@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Ed, Mea culpa, Mea culpa. I just I'll just have to stop referring to this magicicent article on the N8 kitbash that first inspired me to bash kits and build scratches if I can't get it right. To all, please ignore anything Greg may write about the purity of the Mantua kitbash with its substantial metal under frame vs. my preferred method of addind sheet lead to the plastic Tyco underfframe. Greg suffers from a nostalgic attachment the project that launched his writing. While the metal underframe may eliminate one step ion building, altering the platforms is a lot easier wiht the plastic underframe. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:27:46 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Good C-Liner News! From: Jerry Britton I previously reported the severe shortage of the new Life Like P1K C-Liners in PRR livery. All four of my main distributors are now sold out. However, I did score some extra stock at the last moment. A few folks from the list inquired yesterday about them and I said they were unavailable. If you are still interested, please visit our eStore (http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com) and place your order at this time. I have: (1) #LIFE-23988 Road #9448A (8) #LIFE-23989 Road #9493A (10) #LIFE-23990 Road #9452A The last of our Advance Reservations will be in the mail tomorrow. Thanks, all!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "monchie of nyc" Subject: RE: [PRR] Pennsy Days Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:51:54 -0400 Is there a detailed list of activities for Pennsy Days? I saw a brief announcement with a sketchy list on the PRRT&HS website, but I'd like to know more before I make any plans. -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morrow Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:39 PM To: PRR-Talk Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days Anyone from the list going to Pennsy Days next week at the RR Museum of Pennsylvania in Lancaster? Mike Morrow PRRT&HS #6703 The Elmira Branch 1956-57 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:10:14 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Seeking modelling help for a PRR B4 shifter Ralph, list, I looked at pictures of the B4a class in Pennsy Power III. To my eyes, the Bowser 90460 air tank looks like it will do the job. Bowser's part is intended for their A5s, but it looks similar to the tank under the cab of B4/B4a engines. It looks like the B4/B4a tank might be a skosh smaller in diameter, but I've not seen enough photos of these engines to have a firm opinion. As far as the 90460 Bowser tank goes, I'm using them under the cab of my H6sb; it looks to me like they'd also be appropriate under a B6sb. If I may ask, how are you adding the belpaire firebox (B4a 643 was reboilered in 1945 and exists to this day with a radial stay boiler)? Doug "Ralph J. Marshall" wrote: > I am in the process of converting an HO scale MDC 0-6-0 model to a > more accurate version of the B4. I am not looking to do an exact > conversion, but do have enough photographs to make a creditable job of > it. > > I have perused the Walthers catalog details section and found most of > the parts I need. However, I do not see anything that resembles the > large air(?) tanks that are mounted vertically beneath the cab on both > sides. I could fake it with some tubing and rivet details, but would > rather get something off the shelf. Since I've seen tanks like this > on a number of different classes of PRR stuff I'm hoping that somebody > has taken the time to make a part for it. > > So, if you have any suggestions, or want to tell me why this is a > terrible idea, or have done something similar, or whatever, please let > me know. Thanks! > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Marshall WorldStreet Corp. > Technical Lead 465 Medford St. > Boston, MA 02129 > > Email: rmarshall@worldstreet.com Voice: 617/918-2513 > http://www.worldstreet.com Fax: 617/918-2501 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:19:26 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PM-list] Naperville Meet in Oct.--dates set?? In a message dated 5/25/00 12:18:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, TGREGMRTN@AOL.COM writes: << I will be there again this year. It will make my 3rd trip for the event. I usually attend the National Hobby show and then some friends and I organize a dinner and invite some manufacturers and an Editor to attend. I know that Stuart Thayer is planning on being there, and Stu bring more models this year! There are several really good modelers that reside in the Chicago area nd generally just lurk on these list. This year I plan to take the entire week off and see all the sights that Chicagoland hass to offer. I will take in some operating sessions with a couple close friends. If you have never been you should make an effort to attend and we can get together and share and refreshment or two. This event is really growing and I believe it will grow again this year. See you there. >> Gize, I have to second Greg's comments about taking advantage of attending this event. Last year was my first time, and I loved it. Great models, clinics, and discussions. You will not be dissappointed. Mortin Lofton, puts on one heck of a show! Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:02:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Chicago-Valparaiso commuter trains From: John Clark I am looking for anything related to the Chicago - Valparaiso (IN) commuter trains operated by the Pennsy, PC, Conrail and finally Amtrak. Looking for photos/slides, timetables (Form 6) tickets or anything else related to the operations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. John Clark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ELM2@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:05:40 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Tom and all, When you can make a statement like that you know your skills have grown. Welcome to the next level! Ed Martin "a graduate of the Joe Jack school of driving" ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: CENTGA@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:41:58 EDT Subject: [PRR] P1K C-Liners The new LL C-Liners are a welcome addition to my locomotive fleet. My only gripes are that they are still too green, read- (BGLE- Bright Green Loco Enamel) and they seem to have toy train gear ratio's. Much too fast for my taste. The plus side is that LL painted the windshield rims silver and they are very smooth and quite. We are indeed living in the modelers golden years!!!!! Todd Horton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] Chicago-Valparaiso commuter trains Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:17:31 -0500 I have a Form 6 timetable effective 11/2/52. I scanned it in and provided it to Jerry, and it is available on his website. Here is the link to his index of Public TTs. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/index.html My primary PRR interest is Chicago area operations. I've only been at it a few years, so I'm still very much a beginner, but I have collected plenty of documentation. I have some ETTs, track charts, CUS rulebook, an interlocking diagram for the south side of CUS, etc. What is your level of knowledge and interest in the Chicago area? I would enjoy discussing more. Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 00:04:07 EDT Subject: [PRR] Re: [PM-list] RC dreadnaught X29 In a message dated 5/25/00 11:01:14 PM Central Daylight Time, jaydeet@inna.net writes: << Pennsy's later X29s had the inverse Dreadnaught ends >> Must confess you guys caught me napping on this one--didn't realize they were "inverse". Never let a day go by you don't learn something. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 01:09:01 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days monchie of nyc wrote: > Is there a detailed list of activities for Pennsy Days? I saw a brief > announcement with a sketchy list on the PRRT&HS website, but I'd like to > know more before I make any plans. > > -----Original Message----- > From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morrow > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:39 PM > To: PRR-Talk > Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days > > Anyone from the list going to Pennsy Days next week at the RR Museum of > Pennsylvania in Lancaster? > > Mike Morrow > PRRT&HS #6703 > The Elmira Branch 1956-57 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". Sorry about the 'sketchy' information on the site but at the time of the posting, that's all the info we had at that time. I just received the Pennsy Day flyer in the latest PHL Chapter newsletter so here goes (and get there early Saturday as the first presentation is the featured show and is going to be excellent): Saturday: 10:00 - Presentation by Dr. Charles Boas on "Iron Horses in Penn's Woods: Our Railroad Heritage" 11:30 Slide Show - "Penn Station in Theory & Practice" - Chris Baer 1:00 -A joint Philadelphia and Northern Central Chapters meeting 1:45 - Forum - PRR Veterans (memories of working for the PRR) 2:30 - Presentation - "Conservation of PRR Heritage" by John Hartman 3:30 - Slide Show - "PRR in Philadelphia" by James Kelly (this might be changed as I understand from Phil Ritter, PHL Chapter VP that Jim might have to cancel) Sunday: 1:00 Slide Show - "PRR Steam in the 50's" by Dave Kreines 2:00 Demonstration - Operation Lifesaver 3:00 Interviews - "PRR Memories and Oral Histories" by Phil Ritter and Bill Folger Of course, there are the additional displays, art work, Chapter tables, PRR memorabilia displays and, of course, the always breathtaking Grif Teller PRR Calendar art to take up the rest of the time. The Museum is open from 9 to 5 on Saturday and from 12 to 5 on Sunday. Cost is $6.00 for adults; $5.50 adults 60+ and $4.00 for children 6-12. Best, Bill Morlitz, Superintendent, PRRT&HS website ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Viv & Sylvie Brice" Subject: [PRR] How Black is Black? Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:35:14 +1000 Listers, G'day - I'm a newby into Pennsy modelling, and I have a question that has certainly been answered many times before (but not to me!). What color is Pennsy's Brunswick Green? I have yet to find a photo (or video) of any locomotive supposedly painted Brunswick Green that looked any other color than black. I know that Floquil have a color called PRR Brunswick Green, but is it right or is it necessary? I spent many years in the navies of Britain and Australia wearing a 'Navy Blue' uniform that was in fact black by another name, and maybe Brunswick Green is also another term for black. I am currently starting out on my model pike and am converting a couple of Athearn F units from their original color to represent PRR units in the early fifties. So, my question is: Is black OK or should I use the real thing such as the Floquil Brunswick Green ? Viv Brice, Pennsy modeller from Down Under. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:00:37 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? In a message dated 5/26/00 4:44:46 AM Mountain Daylight Time, vivbrice@ozemail.com.au writes: << G'day - I'm a newby into Pennsy modelling, and I have a question that has certainly been answered many times before (but not to me!). What color is Pennsy's Brunswick Green? I have yet to find a photo (or video) of any locomotive supposedly painted Brunswick Green that looked any other color than black. >> Agreed. It looks black on it's own, ntil you put it next to something actually painted black. For instance, look at a PRR engine sitting next to an NYC engine, or take a look at a clean PRR engine. You will notice a distinct difference in color between the body, and the underframe, trucks, and fuel tank. Step in here anytime Greg with your explanation of DGLE. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] [RE] How black is black Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:22:17 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC6EB.810584E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Viv,=20 I'll give it a try. First Brunswick green is not black. Rather it is a = very dark green almost black. Kinda like civilian 'navy blue' is almost = black. I would recommend buying a 'brunswick green' from a few = manufacturers, blowing said finish onto a couple of pieces of scrap = plastic and looking at it under the lighting at your train area. Then = make your decision. Personally, the only time I use pure black is to paint the inside of = tunnels. A "weathered" black will show details much better under = interior light. Don't spend hours detailing the trucks of those F units, = then paint them 'pure' black and loose the visual impact of your work. BTW, I like my steam darker in color than my diesels. Same base color = (brunswick green) but when I weather, the steam gets more "weathered" = black in the mix. This tends to tone down the smokeboxes and red of the = tender deck and cab. Good luck! Walt Prusick=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC6EB.810584E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Viv,
I'll give it a try. First Brunswick green is not = black.=20 Rather it is a very dark green almost black. Kinda like = civilian 'navy=20 blue' is almost black. I would recommend buying a 'brunswick green' from = a few=20 manufacturers, blowing said finish onto a couple of pieces of scrap = plastic and=20 looking at it under the lighting at your train area. Then make your=20 decision.
 
Personally, the only time I use pure black is to = paint the=20 inside of tunnels. A "weathered" black will show details much better = under=20 interior light. Don't spend hours detailing the trucks of those F units, = then=20 paint them 'pure' black and loose the visual impact of your = work.
 
BTW, I like my steam darker in color than my = diesels. Same=20 base color (brunswick green) but when I weather, the steam gets more = "weathered"=20 black in the mix. This tends to tone down the smokeboxes and red of the = tender=20 deck and cab. Good luck!
 
Walt Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BFC6EB.810584E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "jbreon" Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:17:24 -0400 Viv Brice, admitting to being a newby asks: >So, my question is: Is black OK or should I use the real thing such as the >Floquil Brunswick Green ? Viv, The discussion about PRR Brunswick Green (we call it Dark Green Locomotive Enamel) and Freight Car Color comes up so often on this list that most ignore the question when posed. I'll take my turn, as a list veteran, to give you an answer. Yes, the PRR color is nearly black, but not quite. For a new appearing model I would mix Floquil Brunswick with Engine Black about 50/50. The more aged that you want the model to be, start reducing the amount of black as faded locomotives appear greener (to me) than fresh ones. Of course, weathering also alters the apparent color of a model as does room lighting, but the simple guidelines above for the base color will give you a good start. I tend to "gray shade" my Brunswick for weathered steam locomotives by adding Weathered Black rather than Engine Black. I also feel that ModelFlex Brunswick is a lot darker that Floquil and am told that Scalecoat Brunswick is right on by many modelers. Now, did anyone want to discuss PRR Freight Car Color? Hmm? Jerry Breon ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? Walt, I tend to think Scalecoat Brunswick Green is still too Green. Their old Brunswick Green formula I liked a lot better. Now I have to add more black to the "new" formula. The finished model still comes out the same way though. My opinion only. Gotta Run!....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:00:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? So, my question is: Is black OK or should I use the real thing such as the Floquil Brunswick Green ? The PRRT&HS has stated in the past that there has never been any PRR document or print that called for Brunswick green. They always refers to it as Dark Green Locomotive Enamel and as many others will probably report it is alomst black. Some engines faded to a lighter green with oxidation but the old joke is that the PRR used a gallon of black paint to which one or wo drops of green were added. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:11:11 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] P1K C-Liners Todd and List: I agree with everything you've said. My plan is to coat them with a very diluted mix af DGLE and then weather. This will come after the antennas are in. BTW, does anyone have a good idea of which antenna is best to use? My thoughts are to use the Shark version. The pictures I have appear to show the stanchions going directly into the roof without mounting feet. Also, someone told me that he believes the feet were reversed from the normal "pointing out" position. As far as the speed goes, I agree, the gear ratio appears to be too low. In trying to slow them down, while descending the hill, I actually stopped them, by accident, thinking that I was at a higher throttle position. I've since changed the start voltage to a value of "one" and this has fixed the problem. Outside of that, they're great locomotives! Larry CENTGA@aol.com wrote: > The new LL C-Liners are a welcome addition to my locomotive fleet. My only > gripes are that they are still too green, read- (BGLE- Bright Green Loco > Enamel) and they seem to have toy train gear ratio's. Much too fast for my > taste. The plus side is that LL painted the windshield rims silver and they > are very smooth and quite. We are indeed living in the modelers golden > years!!!!! Todd Horton > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:53:44 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? Viv, Greetings to Down Under. Must be getting ready for the winter season, eh? But your question regarding Brunswick Green is indeed a well-weathered one that never gets fully answered. Personally, I like the Accuflex/Modelflex Brunswick green, which indeed has a green undertone under the right light. Almost depends upon whether your layout is in the basement or a spare room that gets some sunlight as to how much green can be seen. In the prototype world, it seemed that not all Brunswick green was equal. I recall seeing Baldwin switchers batting around that looked like a worn black for all purposes, but then I'd see a train pulling in behind a GG1 that had a definite green color. All EMD's, including F units always looked to me truly black. I suspect memory, mine and anyone else's, can play some real tricks with such things. But when looking at color photos in Pennsy books or calenders, different units seem different colors. Baldwin Sharks often had strong green tints, for example, as did GG1's. But F units, even freshly painted, didn't. Eye of the beholder? By the way, a recent posting on a Pennsy email list,(was it the FAX list?) from an actual PRR veteran employee, stated that some paint cans were indeed labled "Brunswick Green". The immutable law about the invariable usage of the term "DGLE" has some holes in it after all. Regards, and good luck. (I know what you mean about "Navy Blue". Sometimes I get to work before I realize I'd put on the 'wrong' color slacks) Barry Peltier ------- DGLE? Never touch the stuff, Doctor. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy Days Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:21:32 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC70C.ED6F69E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry, Everyone... Good Morning! I sent an e-mail over to the folks at the Railroad Museum of = Pennsylvania...to see if they had any info on 'Pennsy Days'. They did = tell me that if you are a PRRT&HS member...you get in for $3.30. They = gave me the hours of the event...but little other info is known... Jerry...any idea who is hosting the event (Northern Central Chapter?) = Any special presentations? I'll be there but I wish I knew more about = the event. Regards,=20 Bob Holden. PRRT&HS # 5044 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC70C.ED6F69E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry, Everyone... Good Morning!
     I sent an e-mail over to the folks at the = Railroad=20 Museum of Pennsylvania...to see if they had any info on 'Pennsy Days'. = They did=20 tell me that if you are a PRRT&HS member...you get in for $3.30. = They gave=20 me the hours of the event...but little other info is known...
Jerry...any idea who is hosting the event (Northern Central = Chapter?) Any=20 special presentations? I'll be there but I wish I knew more about the=20 event.
Regards,
Bob Holden. PRRT&HS # 5044
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFC70C.ED6F69E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:18:22 -0400 From: Dennis Rockwell Subject: [PRR] Re: Hoppers [PRR] "Walt Prusick" wrote on 5/21/00 7:19 pm: > I have a dozen or so sets of Cambria >& Indiana hopper decals sitting in my "decal bin". Who made these? >[ ... ] does anyone have 'good' pics of C & I twin >hoppers circa 1950-54 which I could use to >redetail/reletter a portion of my Athearn hopper fleet? Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, vol 4, pg 92-3, has four excellent photos of C&I two-bay offsets. Dennis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:41:31 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? In a message dated Fri, 26 May 2000 8:34:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "jbreon" writes: What are you doing, Jerry?? Trying to start the holiday weekend with a good old rousing all-out bar fight?? ;-) Jim A. Thorndale, PA PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:16:58 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Tie plates From: Eugene Nowlan The Layout Design Sig recently discussed modeling tie plates, one suggestion was with a slip of paper, which prompted me to retrieve a tie plate that I'd recovered from along Catherine Ck, on the Elmira Br after the trackage had been removed, to determine the prototype thickness and scale thickness. I was surprised to find that it was 0.74 inch under one edge of the rail and 0.95 inch at the other (about 8 & 11 thousandths respectively). This section had passenger service until '52, I believe. The curves in this section are gentle. So are rails normally canted inward? Is there another explanation? Eugene Nowlan 385 Watauga Ave Corning, NY USA 607-936-3988 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Tie plates Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:33:17 -0400 Eugene: The rail is canted inward to assist in the putting the resultant loading through the rail web and reduce the torsional loading on the rails and the tie plates. If you look at the cross section of a rail, the point where the wheel and the rail are in contact is on one side of the rail head. This assymetric loading causes a "moment" or a torsional loading of the rail. The rails would tend to turn inside, in gauge-towards each other, causing damage to the tie plates and ties. The canting, usuaully at 1 to 40, is used to solve that problem. I hope that this helps Ted Andrews (a "railfan" in more ways than one!!) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Nowlan [mailto:ENowlan@stny.rr.com] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 3:17 PM To: Prr-Talk Subject: [PRR] Tie plates The Layout Design Sig recently discussed modeling tie plates, one suggestion was with a slip of paper, which prompted me to retrieve a tie plate that I'd recovered from along Catherine Ck, on the Elmira Br after the trackage had been removed, to determine the prototype thickness and scale thickness. I was surprised to find that it was 0.74 inch under one edge of the rail and 0.95 inch at the other (about 8 & 11 thousandths respectively). This section had passenger service until '52, I believe. The curves in this section are gentle. So are rails normally canted inward? Is there another explanation? Eugene Nowlan 385 Watauga Ave Corning, NY USA 607-936-3988 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Benjamin Frank Hom" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR shop Codes Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:43:00 -0400 Bill, list, Finally got a chance to dig up some info on this one - here's a partial list of scale codes gleaned from a North American railroad list put together by Richard Hendrickson, Frank Peacock, and Jerry Stewart a few years back. These are based from a 1923 complete list of scale codes and are limited to some of the most common. LMK off-list if anyone wants a copy of this data - it's 12 pages long and will cost me about $1.50 to reproduce and mail. Ben Hom Pennsylvania Eastern Region (P1-P199) P2 = Greenville Piers NJ P18 = Camden NJ P50 = Enola Yard PA + P54 = Martinsburg WV P57 = Altoona PA + P62 = Holidaysburg PA + P64 = Tyrone PA P81 = Thurlow MD P82 = Lenni Yard PA P90 = Cape Charles VA + P129 = Northumberland PA P131 = Williamsport PA P133 = Renovo PA + P134 = Southport NY Central Region (P200-P399) P205 = Pitcairn PA + P222 = Peterson PA P243 = Shire Oaks PA P273 = Mingo Jct. OH P301 = Glean NY P304 = Venango PA P314 = Erie PA P330 = New Castle PA + P341 = Conway PA P364 = Cleveland OH + Northwestern Region (P400-P599) P441 = Ft. Wayne Car Shop + P545 = Ecorse Yard (Detroit) MI Southwestern Region (P600-P799) P630 = Columbus OH P632 = Columbus, OH Car Shop + P658 = Cincinnati OH P708 = Terre Haute IN + P712 = Terre Haute. IN Car Shop + P732 = Jeffersonville IN P752 = Indianapolis IN + -----Original Message----- From: PRR-Talk@dsop.com [mailto:PRR-Talk@dsop.com]On Behalf Of Bill Lane Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:03 PM To: 'PRR-Talk@dsop.com' Subject: [PRR] PRR shop Codes Hi List, I am sure that this has been published in the Keystone at one time. My collection goes back to about 1990. What are the painted and reweigh date shop codes? For example, I am pretty sure that P57 is Altoona. Could someone please reference the Keystone article (if I have it) or list the shop codes? My home email address is billlane@snip.net Thank you very much in advance! Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:02:57 EDT While the metal underframe may eliminate one step ion building, altering the platforms is a lot easier with the plastic underframe. ______________________________________ Yes, BUT,....While the metal underframe (from Mantua) is made of the hardest metal on earth (it seems) and will quickly dull or break every tool you apply to it, the Mantua plastic shell is superior to Tyco's. Mantua's rivet detail is better, and the surfaces line up finer than Tyco's. Mantua N-8's are getting hard to find, while Tyco's are nearly everywhere. Or so it seems to me. Andrew Harmantas, SPF from down near C&O Milepost FM Zero. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:18:22 -0400 From: prrbill Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black (and how it was made that color)?? Hi Viv, As you get advice as to how the different model paints actually match PRR "Brunswick Green" or 'DGLE', it's interesting to know one version of what we Americans call the 'urban legend' as to how the color was chosen. The story I've heard throughout the years in the Philadelphia Chapter PRRT&HS (Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society) meetings and at modeling discussions was that a PRR paintshop foreman (in Altoona?) was fed up with the 'regular' black color that was being used. In order to have the engine show a more distinctive color, he threw a quart (half gallon?) can of green paint into a 50 gallon drum of the traditional PRR engine black, mixed it, and told his men to use that color! No one has ever concretely disproved this story and no one has ever told me what shade of green paint it was. So is it true? Who knows? But it's a fun story. Best, Bill Morlitz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWa9975062@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:21:41 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy Days Bob - Schedule of events Sat 10:00 Iron Horses in Penn's woods: Our railroad Heritage - Dr. Charles Boas 11:30 slide show Penn Station in theory & practice - Christopher Baer 1:00 meeting PRRT&HS, Philadelphia chapter & Northern Central Chapter 1:45 forum PRR Veteran's forum (memories of working for the PRR) 2:30 Conservation of Pennsy RR Heritage - John Hartman 3:30 slide show The PRR in Philadelphia - Jim Kelly rail photographer Sunday 1:00 slide show Pennsylvania RR Steam in the 50's - David Kreines 2:00 Operation Lifesaver demonstration 3:00 PRR memories and oral histories William Folger & Phil Ritter There will be a demonstration of full scale sounds of railroad bells & whistles, signals & interlocking machines and visits to the restoration facility, rail yard, railway education center, library and archives AND much more Dayna ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:24:28 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: RE: [PRR] Tie plates Hi Ted and all, Almost right...but (if I recall correctly) this asymmetric loading is referred to as "eccentric" loading. But, in actuality, the difference between torsion, and eccentric as well as moments and torque is subtle and of interest only to Engineers (who would be the only ones who would actually care!) regards, Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ At 05:33 PM 5/26/00 -0400, Andrews, Ted wrote: >Eugene: > >The rail is canted inward to assist in the putting the resultant loading >through the rail web and reduce the torsional loading on the rails and the >tie plates. > >If you look at the cross section of a rail, the point where the wheel and >the rail are in contact is on one side of the rail head. This assymetric >loading causes a "moment" or a torsional loading of the rail. The rails >would tend to turn inside, in gauge-towards each other, causing damage to >the tie plates and ties. The canting, usuaully at 1 to 40, is used to solve >that problem. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] {RE} PRR hoppers to C&I Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:20:42 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC758.3F406EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis, That dozen of hoppers will be lettered using Champ Decals HD-4 Twin = Hopper Data, 50 & 55 ton open hoppers (white) and HN-124 Cambria and = Indiana (white lettering). Can't varify if the HN-124 set is still = available, as mine has got to be about ten years old. Thanks for the = info on the pics. =20 My most humble apologies to the 'pure' at heart, but this thread did = originally start out as PRR. Everyone have a safe holiday! Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC758.3F406EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dennis,
That dozen of hoppers will be lettered using Champ = Decals HD-4=20 Twin Hopper Data, 50 & 55 ton open hoppers (white) and HN-124 = Cambria and=20 Indiana (white lettering). Can't varify if the HN-124 set is still = available, as=20 mine has got to be about ten years old. Thanks for the info on the=20 pics.   
 
My most humble apologies to the 'pure' at heart, but = this=20 thread did originally start out as PRR. Everyone have a safe=20 holiday!
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BFC758.3F406EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:54:19 EDT Subject: [PRR] Tie plates Funny you should mention this - May 2000 Issue of Mainline Modeler has a two page article + a one page diagram on tie plates There is and angle on the plate - the high side goes to the "field" side the low side goes to the "gauge" side The angle on the plate matches the taper on the car wheels to minimize rail head wear, provide better tracking and to help transmit the car weight to the ties in a vertical, rather than an oblique, angle. What I found interesting in the article was that there ARE tecnical terms for the inside (guage) and outside (field) of each rail Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:53:57 -0400 From: Elliot Fishbein and/or Eileen Kolbasuk Subject: [PRR] P54 underbody details Hello, Can anyone out there direct me to a source for information on the underbody details for PRR and LIRR P54 cars? Thanks in advance. Elliot Fishbein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:34:30 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Andy-- I remove the rivet detail on the Tyco bodies so I can concentrate on replicating the rivet patterns on a .005" overlay to be applied over both sides and ends before fabricating the end platform posts and ladders. Tom V. In a message dated Fri, 26 May 2000 6:03:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "andrew harmantas" writes: <> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 20:48:31 +0100 Viv, Can't argue with any of the expert posts on this recurring subject from a prototypical viewpoint but I don't necessarily agree with them when it comes to painting a model. Of course, living in the UK leaves me open to criticism re lack of first hand experience but since we share similar circumstances perhaps you might like to share a few of my thoughts. Over the last few years I've been fortunate to collect a number of books with coloured pics of Pennsy locos and a collection of coloured slides. Concentrating on steam locos (since modelling period is c. 1947-52) I find only a small number of shots showing obvious DGLE and Freight Car Red roofs and tender decks. Most locos are heavily weathered ( by this I don't necessarily mean covered in dirt) and so I choose to model what can be seen in these pictures. In the bigger picture of trying to create a realistic layout and all that this requires it's the only course of action that can produce any form of satisfaction IMHO. Slavish following of ex-shops paint schemes on each loco would result in a bizarre parody of what really went on and would be more akin to a toyshop window. My advice would be to experiment with various paint mixes under the light in which your models are normally seen, until your work matches what you see in pictures. I know that's the only way that suits me. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Viv & Sylvie Brice To: PRR-Talk LIST Sent: 26 May 2000 11:35 Subject: [PRR] How Black is Black? > Listers, > > G'day - I'm a newby into Pennsy modelling, and I have a question that has > certainly been answered many times before (but not to me!). What color is > Pennsy's Brunswick Green? I have yet to find a photo (or video) of any > locomotive supposedly painted Brunswick Green that looked any other color > than black. I know that Floquil have a color called PRR Brunswick Green, but > is it right or is it necessary? > I spent many years in the navies of Britain and Australia wearing a 'Navy > Blue' uniform that was in fact black by another name, and maybe Brunswick > Green is also another term for black. > I am currently starting out on my model pike and am converting a couple of > Athearn F units from their original color to represent PRR units in the > early fifties. > So, my question is: Is black OK or should I use the real thing such as the > Floquil Brunswick Green ? > > Viv Brice, Pennsy modeller from Down Under. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 16:01:12 EDT >I remove the rivet detail on the Tyco bodies so I can concentrate on >replicating the rivet patterns on a .005" overlay to be applied over both >sides and ends before fabricating the end platform posts and ladders.> >Tom V. ___________________________________________________- To quote Clint Eastwood in "Magnum Force", "a man's gotta know his limitations", spoken as he watched his corrupt police captain (played by Hal Holbrooke) get blown up real good. Thin overlays and I just aren't meant for each other. Mine get all curly and wobbly. And unless you use a Northwest Shortline Sensipress with rivet attachment, you run the risk of your rivets looking like the ones I try to emboss--not very convincing. But I am certain not all SPF modlers are as ham-handed as I. Andrew Harmantas, SPF down here near C&O Milepost FM Zero. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 16:42:48 EDT Subject: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Since it looks like Bowser will not do an N-8 at least in the foreseeable future and the fact that there are millions of Tyco/ Mantua almost N-8's out there what does the group think of a brass sided overlay for the Tyco car ?? This way the only major modification to the Tyco piece would be the cupola being centered. The brass side could also provide the platform handrails needed. I could ask John Greene at Beth car works about the possibility. Let me know what you think. ------------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:53:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] P54 underbody details Hi Elliot and list members, The authoritative article on LIRR MP54 cars was published in "Electric Lines" magazine Mar-Apr 1991 pg14-23. Both motorized and trailer cars on the LIRR are covered in depth. Lots of photos showing views of the underbody parts. As you asked about P54 (not MP54) cars, I'm going to guess you are looking for info on the locomotive-hauled variety, and not the self-propelled cars? If so, the article might not help you all that much, but for the third-rail variety, this article is a must-have. - Claus > Hello, > Can anyone out there direct me to a source for information on the > underbody details for PRR and LIRR P54 cars? Thanks in advance. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:05:22 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] (no subject) Warning: not much real PRR content but of interest to electric loco folks- and hence semi-on-target. While web surfing, I found a site about the NYC subways that explains (to my simple mind) why most electric railway equipment used 25hz AC current, rather than the more widely available 60 hz: It was easier to convert 25hz AC to DC than 60 hz to DC. The rotary convertors were smaller, less complicated and lasted longer. Once mercury arc convertors became available, it was a moot point but too late to change the generating equipment. the site is http://www.nycsubway.org/tech/power/rotary.html Jim McDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:44:53 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Sounds like an idea...I did a conversion on a Mantua cabin car (gotta watch this...if I am speaking Santa Fe it's Waycar) some 30+ years ago. (It recently fell apart.) I didn't really feel like doing another one but with some brass sides...as a matter of fact, could the brass sides be the complete sides, and eliminating the plastic sides? Bill Daniels At 04:42 PM 5/27/00 -0400, KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: >Since it looks like Bowser will not do an N-8 at least in the foreseeable >future and the fact that there are millions of Tyco/ Mantua almost N-8's out >there what does the group think of a brass sided overlay for the Tyco car ?? >This way the only major modification to the Tyco piece would be the cupola >being centered. The brass side could also provide the platform handrails >needed. I could ask John Greene at Beth car works about the possibility. Let >me know what you think. > ------------------------ Ken >McCorry > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:47:11 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's At 04:01 PM 5/27/00 -0400, andrew harmantas wrote: But I am certain not all SPF modlers are as ham-handed as I. But I'd be willing to bet that the average SPF modeler can't paint as well as you do! Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:13:32 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] 12-1 pullmans Hello All... Does anyone here have a car name list for the 12-1 Pullmans that PRR had. I'm looking for names of cars such as the one shown in the second "PRR color guide to freight and passenger equipment" which is the "John Greenleaf Whittier" on page 25. Any help will be appreciated. Til Later H. Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Regarding N-8's One would think the hobby industry has come far enough over the years to offer a PRR N8 as a plastic or similar kit. Still having to rely on kitbashing it using Mantua/Tyco is getting old. I have probably converted 50 or so of these to different extents over the last 20 years. Having to think this is the only possible way of gettting a lhalf decent low cost N8 makes me cringe. As for brass side etchings to help fill the void, no thanks! I would much rather see a complete brass and plastic kit similar to the Bethlahem Pass. Car Kits. Or even a Plastic kit simialr to Bowser or possibly a resin kit. Hint Hint Dayna!. Until then I will continue to enjoy my 1 and only N8 which happens to be from Precision Scale Models. Boy if someone could only dupe that in plastic OR resin.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:41:31 -0400 Ken and the List: This sounds like a VERY GOOD idea as far as using a brass car side. After all, it basically arleady exists!! Yes, in the Quality Craft etched brass "kit" that came out in the 1970's. Perhaps a company such as Brass Car sides or Bethlehem Car Works can use one of these kits as a base for the new car sides. The roof could be either resin or plastic. The Quality Craft model had some pretty good white metal castings of the cupula (sic). Is Quality Craft / Gloor Craft still around? Does anyone know who currently owns the old N-8 kit? Maybe the current owner can resurrect the kit and modify for with resin and or plastic parts....... Sorry for rambling but that is my twp cents worth. I hope that alll of you have a happy and SAFE Memorial Day weekend! Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana (7 miles north of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway....I'll be there, probably soaking wet!!!) -----Original Message----- From: KEMACPRR@aol.com [mailto:KEMACPRR@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 3:43 PM To: PRR-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Since it looks like Bowser will not do an N-8 at least in the foreseeable future and the fact that there are millions of Tyco/ Mantua almost N-8's out there what does the group think of a brass sided overlay for the Tyco car ?? This way the only major modification to the Tyco piece would be the cupola being centered. The brass side could also provide the platform handrails needed. I could ask John Greene at Beth car works about the possibility. Let me know what you think. ------------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDGbuff@webtv.net (FrancisinSunbury) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Regarding N-8's I agree. The Mantua/Tyco conversion is a pain, but only thing available reasonbly. I personally would like to see a X-58 boxcar. Also, am not sure of class as I don't have Photo Guides handy, a model of their unique deep side sill coil cars and the class of gondolas that had vertical side "square corrugations?' . Anybody have scale plans of the X-58? Nowhere in my area to measure one. Francis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:05:42 DST Subject: Re: [PRR] P54 underbody details From: aurora7@juno.com Is there a source of authentic, or easily modified 54 foot passenger cars, similar to the LIRR design? Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] P-70FBR Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 01:29:45 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFC844.34786520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, Just some passing thoughts in my ongoing saga with those cars. It was = pointed out that the trucks supplied were incorrect, should be = Commonwealth four wheel truck. Ok, bought the Roundhouse replacements, = went to install them and the body bolsters prevent the truck from = swinging. Problem is that the bolsters per instructions are to go below = 2nd narrow window seperation, while pics & diagrams in N.J.International = (Pennsy Heavyweight Pass. Equip Plan & Photo Book) show bolster directly = below 1st narrow window seperation. I followed the pics & diagram. In = both cases problems arise. Following the kits instructions, the underbody details are much to = "jammed". But following N.J.International, the trucks can't swing = (diagram gives 41' as center-to-center for the body bolsters). Granted, I have perform a truck swap, and thus can't expect things to = work out exactly as the designers intended, so I am curious as to how = those of you who have done this surmounted the problem. For my part, I would be satisfied with mounting the body bolsters = in-board of the 1st narrow window seperation, allowing clearance for = truck swing and room in the middle for the underbody details. Feedback = is appreciated. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFC844.34786520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear List,
Just some passing thoughts in my ongoing saga with = those cars.=20 It was pointed out that the trucks supplied were incorrect, should be=20 Commonwealth four wheel truck. Ok, bought the Roundhouse replacements, = went to=20 install them and the body bolsters prevent the truck from swinging. = Problem is=20 that the bolsters per instructions are to go below 2nd narrow window = seperation,=20 while pics & diagrams in N.J.International (Pennsy = Heavyweight=20 Pass. Equip Plan & Photo Book) show bolster directly below 1st = narrow window=20 seperation. I followed the pics & diagram. In both cases = problems=20 arise.
 
Following the kits instructions, the underbody = details are=20 much to "jammed". But following N.J.International, the trucks can't = swing=20 (diagram gives 41' as center-to-center for the body = bolsters).
 
Granted, I have perform a truck swap, and thus can't = expect=20 things to work out exactly as the designers intended, so I am curious as = to how=20 those of you who have done this surmounted the problem.
 
For my part, I would be satisfied with mounting the = body=20 bolsters in-board of the 1st narrow window seperation, allowing = clearance for=20 truck swing and room in the middle for the underbody details. Feedback = is=20 appreciated.
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BFC844.34786520-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:26:34 EDT Subject: [PRR] Newport & Cincinnati Bridge Company and the Pennsylvania Some of you know that for a while I've been collecting info on the Panhandle's three Ohio River bridges - Steubenville, Cincinnati, and Louisville. Just found a stock certificate from the N&C Bridge in Cincinnati. This certificate is of importance to both Pennsy and L&N history fans. This bridge company was organized in Kentucky (chartered February 5, 1868)and in Ohio (organized April 3rd, 1868) to connect the Little Miami Railroad at Cincinnati with the Louisville Cincinnati & Lexington "Short Line" coming up the river from Louisville (technically, starting from an LC&L line that already ran through Lagrange KY in Oldham County). This was the first of 3 railroad bridges across the Ohio at Cincinnati, and it was almost finished when the Army Corps of Engineers (and the steamboat interests) made them start over, raising the bridge several more feet. The span opened in 1972, and the Short Line (later L&N) used the Little Miami's Cincinnati terminal from that time until the opening of Cincinnati Union Station (1934). The certificate has a number of historically significant features: 1. an engraved view of the original bridge from upstream. The Little Miami's grain elevator is prominent in the view, and the Roebling bridge is visible in the background. 2. This one thousand shares was issued to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in January 1874. While the bridge was being built, the Little Miami was leased to PRR interests and became part of the PC&StL (Pan Handle Route). An endorsement on the certificate shows ownership was transferred to "The Pennsylvania Company" December 14, 1880. 3. This is stock certificate No. 3. We're led to assume that the Little Miami and the LC&L were issued certificates 1 and 2. The original N&C Bridge was a "larger copy" of the PRR's first Steubenville OH bridge, so clearly the Pennsy interests were assisting when the N&C Bridge was designed. It had to be replaced before 1900, happily because traffic had grown so much. And about 1906, it was bought outright by the L&N, so railfans of my day knew it as "the L&N bridge". Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:24:09 -0400 From: Richard Campbell Subject: Re: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Ken, If John will do them I for one will buy them.See if this could incould end beam and platforms. Neil Campbell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:26:34 EDT Subject: [PRR-FAX] PP = Newport & Cincinnati Bridge Company and the Pennsylvania Railroad/Lines West Some of you know that for a while I've been collecting info on the Panhandle's three Ohio River bridges - Steubenville, Cincinnati, and Louisville. Just found a stock certificate from the N&C Bridge in Cincinnati. This certificate is of importance to both Pennsy and L&N history fans. This bridge company was organized in Kentucky (chartered February 5, 1868)and in Ohio (organized April 3rd, 1868) to connect the Little Miami Railroad at Cincinnati with the Louisville Cincinnati & Lexington "Short Line" coming up the river from Louisville (technically, starting from an LC&L line that already ran through Lagrange KY in Oldham County). This was the first of 3 railroad bridges across the Ohio at Cincinnati, and it was almost finished when the Army Corps of Engineers (and the steamboat interests) made them start over, raising the bridge several more feet. The span opened in 1972, and the Short Line (later L&N) used the Little Miami's Cincinnati terminal from that time until the opening of Cincinnati Union Station (1934). The certificate has a number of historically significant features: 1. an engraved view of the original bridge from upstream. The Little Miami's grain elevator is prominent in the view, and the Roebling bridge is visible in the background. 2. This one thousand shares was issued to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in January 1874. While the bridge was being built, the Little Miami was leased to PRR interests and became part of the PC&StL (Pan Handle Route). An endorsement on the certificate shows ownership was transferred to "The Pennsylvania Company" December 14, 1880. 3. This is stock certificate No. 3. We're led to assume that the Little Miami and the LC&L were issued certificates 1 and 2. The original N&C Bridge was a "larger copy" of the PRR's first Steubenville OH bridge, so clearly the Pennsy interests were assisting when the N&C Bridge was designed. It had to be replaced before 1900, happily because traffic had grown so much. And about 1906, it was bought outright by the L&N, so railfans of my day knew it as "the L&N bridge". Rick Tipton Business manager for the Jack Fravert collection, an estate including builder plates, number plates, railroad hardware, books, paper collectibles, and other railroadiana. Email RickTipton@aol.com Phone 502-426-0089 (8am to 8pm please) Fax same number 3800 Little Bend Road Louisville, KY 40241-1625 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find long lost high school friends: http://click.egroups.com/1/4056/7/_/586931/_/959524965/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] Keystones available Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:41:55 -0500 Before I advertise them on eBay, I thought I would offer my duplicate Keystones to someone on the PRR Talk list. I have 44 duplicates from about 1987 through 1998. I also have 13 issues of Rails Northeast available. The Keystones are in very good to excellent condition. The RN's have a price sticker on the cover and are slightly worn. I want to sell them all as one lot. However, I will separate the RN's. I also have a large lot of RailPace magazines from the 90's as well as a huge lot of Trains magazines from the 70's, 80's & 90's. Regards, Greg Johnson, Friendswood, TX ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: [PRR] More pictures on website Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:54:35 +0100 Some more pictures have been scanned and uploaded to the website.... http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/prr_pics/contents.htm this time a selection of steam locos and HO models. As usual I'd appeciate any comments about locations. Can anyone confirm that the B6sb is at Atlantic City and the T1 at Chicago, please? Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS Website at: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:22:32 -0400 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: Re: [PRR] Newport & Cincinnati Bridge Company and the I assume that you know there is a series of articles in "The Arrow", the N&WHS publication, about Cincinnati and building CUT. JimMcDaniel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "James L. McDaniel" Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:22:32 -0400 Subject: [PRR-FAX] PP = Newport & Cincinnati Bridge Company and the PennsylvaniaRailroad/Lines West I assume that you know there is a series of articles in "The Arrow", the N&WHS publication, about Cincinnati and building CUT. JimMcDaniel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations. Remember the good 'ol days http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/7/_/586931/_/959608488/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "PENNSY Spoken Here" As We Enjoy Sharing Factual Information While Remembering Our PRR Heritage. !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:57:06 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] More pictures on website In a message dated 5/29/00 5:11:35 AM Central Daylight Time, johnhwright@xclent.clara.co.uk writes: << Can anyone confirm that the...the T1 (is) at Chicago, please? >> Yes, the train is Eastbound and has just crossed the Calumet River from East Chicago into Hammond-Whiting, Indiana on one of the drawbridges in the background. The two left drawbridges are Pennsy and the two to the right are NYC. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:00:54 -0400 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] 12-1 pullmans I notice that noone has picked up on your request for information. Could be due to the holidqy weekend or the fact that Pennsy had over 200 12-1 Pullmans at one time. I have scanned in and uploaed the information from a footnote in my 1953 Passenger Equipment Register. As of January, 1953 Pennsy had 207 12-1's on the roster. I believe there are some variations in the floor plans between these cars but I do not have that information. If I did everything correctly, you should be able to view the list at: http//:www.provide.net/~parkvarieties/names.jpg Hope this helps out out. Frank Brua bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hello All... > > Does anyone here have a car name list for the 12-1 Pullmans > that PRR had. I'm looking for names of cars such > as the one shown in the second "PRR color guide to freight and > passenger equipment" which is the "John Greenleaf Whittier" > on page 25. > > Any help will be appreciated. > > Til Later > H. Mummert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:53:42 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] P-70FBR --------------BDC85C35538460B47AA296FA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, list, ECW does sell a version of the P70FBR with their own Commonwealth truck; it's ECW 1124 with the clerestory roof and ECW 1125 with the arch roof. However, I've found this truck difficult to assemble into a free-rolling truck. Most of my P70 fleet now rides on the Roundhouse commonwealth trucks. I'm building 3 P70FBRs (that latest sale of Jerry's came in handy for me) right now. I don't add body bolsters until after I've added trucks and checked coupler height (I learned this the same way you did; don't feel too bad!). I mount my bolsters about a foot closer to the center of the car than the first narrow window separation, and this has worked well for me on four (so far) P70FBRs. My moving of the body bolsters leaves just enough space for all of the underbody detail to be mounted according to the NJ International PRR passenger car book. I have come up with some additional wrinkes on this latest batch of P70s (at last count, I now have over 30 between ECW, Bachmann, and the ancient JC Models kits). I painted the underbody details and underbody of the car before adding the details. This seemed to work out better than painting the details after adding them to the car. I also used fishing sinkers instead of the A-line weights (my cars weigh 5.5 ounces and seem to work well at this weight); pass on this. The A-line weights are self sticking and fit neatly into the windowless areas of the car near the ends. Doug Walt Prusick wrote: > Dear List,Just some passing thoughts in my ongoing saga with those > cars. It was pointed out that the trucks supplied were incorrect, > should be Commonwealth four wheel truck. Ok, bought the Roundhouse > replacements, went to install them and the body bolsters prevent the > truck from swinging. Problem is that the bolsters per instructions are > to go below 2nd narrow window seperation, while pics & diagrams in > N.J.International (Pennsy Heavyweight Pass. Equip Plan & Photo Book) > show bolster directly below 1st narrow window seperation. I followed > the pics & diagram. In both cases problems arise. Following the kits > instructions, the underbody details are much to "jammed". But > following N.J.International, the trucks can't swing (diagram gives 41' > as center-to-center for the body bolsters). Granted, I have perform a > truck swap, and thus can't expect things to work out exactly as the > designers intended, so I am curious as to how those of you who have > done this surmounted the problem. For my part, I would be satisfied > with mounting the body bolsters in-board of the 1st narrow window > seperation, allowing clearance for truck swing and room in the middle > for the underbody details. Feedback is appreciated. Walt Prusick --------------BDC85C35538460B47AA296FA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, list,

ECW does sell a version of the P70FBR with their own Commonwealth truck; it's ECW 1124 with the clerestory roof and ECW 1125 with the arch roof.  However, I've found this truck difficult to assemble into a free-rolling truck.  Most of my P70 fleet now rides on the Roundhouse commonwealth trucks.

I'm building 3 P70FBRs (that latest sale of Jerry's came in handy for me) right now.  I don't add body bolsters until after I've added trucks and checked coupler height (I learned this the same way you did; don't feel too bad!).  I mount my bolsters about a foot closer to the center of the car than the first narrow window separation, and this has worked well for me on four (so far) P70FBRs.

My moving of the body bolsters leaves just enough space for all of the underbody detail to be mounted according to the NJ International PRR passenger car book.

I have come up with some additional wrinkes on this latest batch of P70s (at last count, I now have over 30 between ECW, Bachmann, and the ancient JC Models kits).  I painted the underbody details and underbody of the car before adding the details.  This seemed to work out better than painting the details after adding them to the car.  I also used fishing sinkers instead of the A-line weights (my cars weigh 5.5 ounces and seem to work well at this weight); pass on this.  The A-line weights are self sticking and fit neatly into the windowless areas of the car near the ends.

Doug

Walt Prusick wrote:

Dear List,Just some passing thoughts in my ongoing saga with those cars. It was pointed out that the trucks supplied were incorrect, should be Commonwealth four wheel truck. Ok, bought the Roundhouse replacements, went to install them and the body bolsters prevent the truck from swinging. Problem is that the bolsters per instructions are to go below 2nd narrow window seperation, while pics & diagrams in N.J.International (Pennsy Heavyweight Pass. Equip Plan & Photo Book) show bolster directly below 1st narrow window seperation. I followed the pics & diagram. In both cases problems arise. Following the kits instructions, the underbody details are much to "jammed". But following N.J.International, the trucks can't swing (diagram gives 41' as center-to-center for the body bolsters). Granted, I have perform a truck swap, and thus can't expect things to work out exactly as the designers intended, so I am curious as to how those of you who have done this surmounted the problem. For my part, I would be satisfied with mounting the body bolsters in-board of the 1st narrow window seperation, allowing clearance for truck swing and room in the middle for the underbody details. Feedback is appreciated. Walt Prusick
--------------BDC85C35538460B47AA296FA-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:58:13 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] {RE} PRR hoppers to C&I --------------162D6A1531FC235A4E2F1F8E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, list, Champ's latest catalog (98-99) lists HN-124 as available in HO scale, but not O. Hope this helps get those hoppers on the road. Doug Walt Prusick wrote: > Dennis,That dozen of hoppers will be lettered using Champ Decals HD-4 > Twin Hopper Data, 50 & 55 ton open hoppers (white) and HN-124 Cambria > and Indiana (white lettering). Can't varify if the HN-124 set is still > available, as mine has got to be about ten years old. Thanks for the > info on the pics. My most humble apologies to the 'pure' at heart, but > this thread did originally start out as PRR. Everyone have a safe > holiday! Walt Prusick --------------162D6A1531FC235A4E2F1F8E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt, list,

Champ's latest catalog (98-99) lists HN-124 as available in HO scale, but not O.  Hope this helps get those hoppers on the road.

Doug

Walt Prusick wrote:

Dennis,That dozen of hoppers will be lettered using Champ Decals HD-4 Twin Hopper Data, 50 & 55 ton open hoppers (white) and HN-124 Cambria and Indiana (white lettering). Can't varify if the HN-124 set is still available, as mine has got to be about ten years old. Thanks for the info on the pics. My most humble apologies to the 'pure' at heart, but this thread did originally start out as PRR. Everyone have a safe holiday! Walt Prusick
--------------162D6A1531FC235A4E2F1F8E-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] Keystones Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:21:27 -0500 As for the 44 back issue Keystones I have for sale: Is $200 plus shipping a fair price? Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Along the main Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:45:50 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCA0B.13774DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, For those of you who haven't guessed it yet, I am much like Rip Van = Winkel. Been out of the model railroading loop for a number of years and = am trying to get back on track. (ouch, pun).Topics like DCC and CTS give = me the willies. Oh for the days of DPDT and knobs! I am now at the design stage of my 22x20 HO layout and I ran into a big = problem, which really shouldn't be a problem. Modeling Location! I want = steel mills and blue ribbon varnish while staying within western PA. Now = running out of Pittsburgh Station in 1952 is a possibility, but much to = daunting (due to scope) of a project. I was thinking,maybe Johnstown. but I don't really know the lay of the = railroad in that town. Anyone familiar with that local, I would like to = discuss the modeling possibilities before I make a trip with camera and = tape in hand. Thanks in advance, Walt Prusick=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCA0B.13774DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
For those of you who haven't guessed it yet, I am = much like=20 Rip Van Winkel. Been out of the model railroading loop for a number of = years and=20 am trying to get back on track. (ouch, pun).Topics like DCC and CTS give = me the=20 willies. Oh for the days of DPDT and knobs!
 
I am now at the design stage of my 22x20 HO layout = and I ran=20 into a big problem, which really shouldn't be a problem. Modeling = Location! I=20 want steel mills and blue ribbon varnish while staying within = western=20 PA. Now running out of Pittsburgh Station in 1952 is a possibility, but = much to=20 daunting (due to scope) of a project.
 
I was thinking,maybe Johnstown. but I don't really = know the=20 lay of the railroad in that town. Anyone familiar with that local, I = would like=20 to discuss the modeling possibilities before I make a trip with camera = and tape=20 in hand.
 
Thanks in advance,
Walt Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BFCA0B.13774DA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:48:42 -0400 Subject: [PRR] E-Mail Address for Sweetland? From: Jerry Britton Anyone have an e-mail address for David Sweetland? I'd like to converse with him about his latest book. Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:44:33 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] HO scale N-8's Andy-- I'm reading with interest the article in the May 2000 (or is it April) Mainline Modeler describing how to emboss a brass rivet detail die. As my Parkinson's doesn't allow for lenghty physical activity of any sort (standing exhausts me fairly quickly), anything to save any form of energy is worth exploring. I may also buy a sensipress with the riveting attachments as I'm on the verge of a major steam power construction program -- 2 H-9 Consolidations, two E-4 Atlantics, and an I-1 Decapod (with the correct boiler and cylinders) I will have other uses for this equipment. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Along the main Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:57:55 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFCA1D.86DC2560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt, Here are some pros and cons I see for modeling the Johnstown area. = Actually there are few few cons! Pros: 1) Heavy steel industry- could be modeled as flats along the wall 2) Interesting interchange with B&O in Johnstown 3) Beautiful valley scenery 4) LOTS of PRR mainline action Cons: 1) The signature 4 track main is a bit trickier to duplicate in 22' x = 20', especially if staging tracks are utilized 2) You will need LOTS of equipment to keep the 4 track main busy I think your Johnstown idea is a good one. A big decision will be how = much steel do you want to model vs. how much PRR authenticity do you = want. The 20' width of your room lends itself to around the walls plus a = central pennensula, even if 42", 44", 46" & 48" radius curves are used = for the PRR mains. (The wide 42"+ mains really make full length = passenger cars look good.) If you reduce those radii to say 32"-38", you = will probably will not be able to add another penninsula down the center = of the room. If you need any design help, I will be glad to offer what I can. Regards, Greg Johnson =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Walt Prusick=20 To: prr-talk@dsop.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:45 AM Subject: [PRR] Along the main Dear list, I am now at the design stage of my 22x20 HO layout and I ran into a = big problem, which really shouldn't be a problem. Modeling Location! I = want steel mills and blue ribbon varnish while staying within western = PA. Now running out of Pittsburgh Station in 1952 is a possibility, but = much to daunting (due to scope) of a project. I was thinking,maybe Johnstown. but I don't really know the lay of the = railroad in that town. Anyone familiar with that local, I would like to = discuss the modeling possibilities before I make a trip with camera and = tape in hand. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFCA1D.86DC2560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt,
 
Here are some pros and cons I see for modeling the = Johnstown=20 area. Actually there are few few cons!
 
Pros:
 
1) Heavy steel industry- could be modeled as flats = along the=20 wall
2) Interesting interchange with B&O in=20 Johnstown
3) Beautiful valley scenery
4) LOTS of PRR mainline action
 
Cons:
1) The signature 4 track main is a bit trickier to = duplicate=20 in 22' x 20', especially if staging tracks are utilized
2) You will need LOTS of equipment to keep the = 4 track=20 main busy
 
I think your Johnstown idea is a good one. A = big decision=20 will be how much steel do you want to model vs. how much PRR = authenticity do you=20 want. The 20' width of your room lends itself to around the walls plus a = central=20 pennensula, even if 42", 44", 46" & 48" radius curves are used for = the PRR=20 mains. (The wide 42"+ mains really make full length passenger cars = look=20 good.) If you reduce those radii to say 32"-38", you will probably = will not=20 be able to add another penninsula down the center of the = room.
 
If you need any design help, I will be glad to offer = what I=20 can.
 
Regards,
 
Greg Johnson  
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Walt=20 Prusick
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 = 9:45 AM
Subject: [PRR] Along the = main

Dear list,
 
I am now at the design stage of my 22x20 HO layout = and I ran=20 into a big problem, which really shouldn't be a problem. Modeling = Location! I=20 want steel mills and blue ribbon varnish while staying within = western=20 PA. Now running out of Pittsburgh Station in 1952 is a possibility, = but much=20 to daunting (due to scope) of a project.
 
I was thinking,maybe Johnstown. but I don't really = know the=20 lay of the railroad in that town. Anyone familiar with that local, I = would=20 like to discuss the modeling possibilities before I make a trip with = camera=20 and tape in hand.
 
------=_NextPart_000_013D_01BFCA1D.86DC2560-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:06:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Regarding N-8's Ken, It's a solution but I don't think one that's commercially viable. Greg's 1990 story and the April 1982 MR story described resectioning two Tyco/Mantuaq cabeese bodies into one N8 with nearly accuratelt placed windows and cupolas. Remember that if you are modeling the 1950s, the N8, as the newest and thus scarcest cabins, running mainly on hot shots and other scheduled freightest. Only 200 were built in 1951. In 1957 there were 684 N-6 and 613 N-5 cabins in service system wide. Tom V. In a message dated Sat, 27 May 2000 4:48:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KEMACPRR@aol.com writes: << Since it looks like Bowser will not do an N-8 at least in the foreseeable future and the fact that there are millions of Tyco/ Mantua almost N-8's out there what does the group think of a brass sided overlay for the Tyco car ?? This way the only major modification to the Tyco piece would be the cupola being centered. The brass side could also provide the platform handrails needed. I could ask John Greene at Beth car works about the possibility. Let me know what you think. ------------------------ Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] RE: (PRR) Along the Main    Walt,         Instead of going east from 28th Street Yards in Pittsburgh to Johnstown, have you thought of going westward. Plenty of items to model in this direction. Rivers, Island Ave Yds, Industries all along the river, the Huge Conway yds, Bayard Banch cutoff, Beaver Falls - New Brighton split of the Ft. Wayne Line and the E&A Line. On a layout these two lines can join up in another part of the room for continuous running.           All kind of freight traffic (Steel mill, scrap, tankers etc.) to be found and Varnish, Talk about Varnish! Add in the daily commuter G5's to Beaver Falls and you can have Tuscan Red from wall to wall. Did I mention Rivers. On the other side of the rivers is the P&LE, Throw in the B&O, CSX, Chessie and Erie depending on your time period.           Boy it makes me want to get to the basement and continue my layout now. This is what I plan to model. More or Less. The Beaver Falls-New Brighton Flyover will be my most distinctive feature. Good Luck with your descissions...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:40:20 -0400 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] New Brighton Flyover (was RE: (PRR) Along the Main) Hello- Is there an online location that has track plans and photographs of the New Brighton Flyover? I have taken a few image myself (last Autumn) and plan to put them on a website someday. Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com Gary Mittner wrote: > The Beaver Falls-New Brighton Flyover will be my most > distinctive feature. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:39:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick James Rieger Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: (PRR) Along the Main On Tue, 30 May 2000, Gary Mittner wrote: Don't forget Union Station, the Fort Wayne Station, the round house, icing facilities, and other things at Manchester/Island Ave yard, plus the Ogio Connecting Bridge. Patrick ============================================================================ "...if anyone has bolted together a mechanism with just fifty percent of the steam locomotive's solid spiritual satisfaction, he hasn't filed for a patent yet." -David P. Morgan, late editor of TRAINS magazine ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick James Rieger, http://www.dementia.org/~patrick Volunteer, The Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati, Latonia, Kentucky formerly Railway Exposition Company PRRT&HS #6713 ============================================================================ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] New Brighton Flyover (was RE: (PRR) Along the Main) Jeff, I know of no site that has the Flyover posted. For those of you not familiar with this feature, picture this if you can. In New Brighton, PA., the mainline is still 4 tracks wide. On the westside of town, the 2 center tracks, 1 westbound and 1 eastbound drop down lower than the outside tracks. Then they drop underneath the outside tracks and this is where the old E&A basically starts. These lower tracks continue up the Beaver River to the north north west. Meanwhile the 2 outside tracks flyover those 2 lower tracks. These are the Ft. Wyane Line Mains. This flyover is constructed of Concrete Arches and such. Would make an excellent modeling project. I believe this was built in 1928? give or take a year. Before this time period the tracks (2 Ft Wayne mains) were located in the center of town. There are some excellent photos of this location in the second PRRT&HS book by Ken Kobus. Gotta Run! Don't have time to continue..... Hope this helps a little on this particular feature....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDGbuff@webtv.net (FrancisinSunbury) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] New Brighton Flyover Yard Reverse Loops While not a flyover, many modelers try to hide reverse loops. At the PRR's yard in Nortumberland, Pa. there was a "reverse loop" turnaround track right in the yard. The topography was up/down and some yard tracks were built on culverts over small run-off streams. This track went through one of them. It would be an interesting design. They also had a walkway from nearby highway to middle of yard that went under/through some of these culverts. Was this common on the PRR? I believe I read about something similiar at the unside Yards. Francis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RDGbuff@webtv.net (FrancisinSunbury) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] New Brighton Flyover Sunnyside Yards Francis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:05:52 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] How Black is Black? Viv and All, I have been away for the weekend, made a detour to the Puget Sound for some R&R. I am trying to play catch up, with that said: Stu writes: Guys let's not forget that DGLE or, Brunswick Green as it is called, is actually a black paint with copper salts added to give the black a green hue. When the paint is applied it appears black except when compared to the black applied to the underframes and appliances. At that point you could see the green hue. The paint was given two coats of varnish, which was supposed to protect the shine and finish. As the varnish would age or break down the shine would fade and the process of oxidation would take it's toll on the finish. Remember, copper + oxygen = oxidation and what color results with oxidized copper... green. Thus as the varnish and the shine faded the color would appear more green than normal. With the advent of synthetic varnishes the paint would degrade slower and the color would hold it's true appearance longer. Makes sense and it should. Remember, Pennsy men would refer to a freshly out shopped unites as being "a fresh coat of varnish" which tells you that a! repainted unit was not likely repainted but more often re-varnished. Once the varnish was re-applied to a cleaned locomotive that had been wiped with "hot water,oil soap and kerosene" the orginal color could be established with a coat of varnish. Hope this helps... Greg Martin Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 15:42:00 -0400 Subject: [PRR] PRR F5's??? From: Jerry Britton Anyone who attended the GP session at the PRRT&HS Convention was witness to what almost became a fight! An attendee was claiming that the PRR had F5's. The speaker claimed otherwise, that the PRR had only F-3's and F-7's. The attendee claimed that the engineers at EMD referred internally to the Phase III F-3's as F-5's. Who knows who is right, but I found it interesting that in Sweetland's new book one of the captions makes the same claim almost verbatim!!! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com Free serving of railroad web sites http://www.railfancentral.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:45:21 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Jerry and all, Not a bit surprised. I've heard of F5's (F3 innards inside of an F7 carbody) in that supposedly the first two sets of freight locomotives delivered to the Santa Fe were (according to Worley) F5's. Nobody else seems to think so. I'm not sure, but I think the give-away is the delivery date and (for dynamic brake equipped units) the presence of a fan instead of the F3's characteristic grids. Overhead photos (if any exist) should show the fans or grids. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:54:49 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] Along the main In a message dated 5/30/2000 7:51:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: > Anyone familiar with that local, I would like to discuss the modeling > possibilities before I make a trip with camera and tape in hand. Get thee to the top of the incline, and you can preview the modeling possibilities very easily; the passenger station is a good prototype for those who have Pennsylvania Station New York asperations, but not the space; the relationship of steel mill to passenger station is almost like a model layout; now, about how to model the Flood.... Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:17:12 -0500 From: "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Jerry wrote: >An attendee was claiming that the PRR had F5's. The speaker claimed >otherwise, that the PRR had only F-3's and F-7's. The attendee claimed that >the engineers at EMD referred internally to the Phase III F-3's as F-5's. > >Who knows who is right, but I found it interesting that in Sweetland's new >book one of the captions makes the same claim almost verbatim!!! Um, time to go sit in your webmaster's corner for awhile...didn't we just have this discussion a few months ago? A quick check of the archives shows that on Jan 8, 15 and 16, several informative posts, from a variety of prr-talkers, indicated that the "F-5" was a late phase F-3 with some distinctive F-7 features and gave some PRR units (numbers)...another example of PRR-talk setting the trend with the PRRT&HS tagging along !!! Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:44:41 -0500 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Jerry: I know, I read the same thing. Almost makes you want to go out and buy more power! Larry Jerry Britton wrote: > Anyone who attended the GP session at the PRRT&HS Convention was witness to > what almost became a fight! > > An attendee was claiming that the PRR had F5's. The speaker claimed > otherwise, that the PRR had only F-3's and F-7's. The attendee claimed that > the engineers at EMD referred internally to the Phase III F-3's as F-5's. > > Who knows who is right, but I found it interesting that in Sweetland's new > book one of the captions makes the same claim almost verbatim!!! > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > Free serving of railroad web sites > http://www.railfancentral.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:03:22 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? In a message dated Tue, 30 May 2000 3:47:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Jerry Britton writes: << An attendee was claiming that the PRR had F5's. The speaker claimed otherwise, that the PRR had only F-3's and F-7's. The attendee claimed that the engineers at EMD referred internally to the Phase III F-3's as F-5's. >> It was actually the phase 4 F3's that were referred to as F5's by EMD. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 18:06:57 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? In a message dated Tue, 30 May 2000 4:52:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bill Daniels writes: << Jerry and all, Not a bit surprised. I've heard of F5's (F3 innards inside of an F7 carbody) in that supposedly the first two sets of freight locomotives delivered to the Santa Fe were (according to Worley) F5's. Nobody else seems to think so. I'm not sure, but I think the give-away is the delivery date and (for dynamic brake equipped units) the presence of a fan instead of the F3's characteristic grids. Overhead photos (if any exist) should show the fans or grids. Bill Daniels >> The F5 was actually an F3 with F7 electrical equipment if I remember right. Externally they would look like an F7 except for the Dynamic Brake equipment that was the same as that used on earlier F3's. There were quite a few roads that had the F5. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Johnstown vs New Brighton Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:34:46 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFCA6E.1CABD5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the responses guys, To be honest, I initially looked at the possibility of modeling from = Conway Yards westward. I know the area well as I was born and raised in = that neck of the woods(attended Railroad Days as a kid at the shopping = center above those yards). But I found Conway Yards just to huge (even = with selective compression) to even contemplate. Even at the height of = steel in the Pittsburgh area, with the exception of one Bessemer = converter , at the AM Byers plant in Ambridge, there was no other steel = producer along the PRR main (westward from Pgh) until you got to = Youngstown/Sharon or Steubenville along the river. The area was over run = with fabricators, but very few steel producers. And I already bought my = blastfurnaces (sniff). Johnstown on the otherhand would allow me to model a four track main, an = interchange with the B&O (as pointed out by a list member) and run all = the varnish I could possibly want. The possibility of "curtailing" the = "Blue Ribbon Fleet" is a distinct possibility, as who has enough motive = power? I will be in touch with those members who have contacted me with = comments as time and energy permit. Thanks again for your understanding. Walt Prusick=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFCA6E.1CABD5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the responses guys,
 
To be honest, I initially looked at the possibility = of=20 modeling from Conway Yards westward. I know the area well as I was born = and=20 raised in that neck of the woods(attended Railroad Days as a kid at the = shopping=20 center above those yards). But I found Conway Yards just to huge (even = with=20 selective compression) to even contemplate. Even at the height of steel = in the=20 Pittsburgh area, with the exception of one Bessemer converter , at the = AM Byers=20 plant in Ambridge, there was no other steel producer along = the PRR=20 main (westward from Pgh) until you got to Youngstown/Sharon or = Steubenville=20 along the river. The area was over run with fabricators, but very few = steel=20 producers. And I already bought my blastfurnaces (sniff).
 
Johnstown on the otherhand would allow me to model a = four=20 track main, an interchange with the B&O (as pointed out by a list = member)=20 and run all the varnish I could possibly want. The possibility of=20 "curtailing" the "Blue Ribbon Fleet" is a distinct possibility, as = who has=20 enough motive power? I will be in touch with those members who have = contacted me with comments as time and energy permit.
 
Thanks again for your understanding.
 
Walt Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BFCA6E.1CABD5E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 19:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Johnstown vs New Brighton Walt, Speaking of Rail-days, I remember those too! Well, I don't remember them too well as I was only 5 or 6 at the time but I still have the slides my dad took of the Cabin Cars the PRR/PC would bring up and put on display in the parking lot. Off hand I think I have sldes of the Transfer Caboose of the PC and a PRR or PC N8. We always toy shopped at Grants, Kresgees? and Pennys. Ahhhh! Days long ago! Yeah, lots of Steel fabricators along the line west of Pittsburgh. Still plenty of modeling ideas though. You can still have coal drags, gondola loads of steel and scrap to represent the steel industry. You can always sale off that Walthers Steel Mill and buy a few more PA's and E's for your Passenger operations! .......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "rholden" Subject: [PRR] F-5's Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:58:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCA79.D1B7CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry...Everybody... I won't take up time with this question, apparently there have been = previous dicussions on it...but can we assume that what EMD called a = F-5...would have been a phase 1V F-3, with a V-16 567-B Engine...with a = conventional Roots Blower? Probably would have had the stainless steel = grills as opposed to the 'chicken wire'? Jerry, did Dave Sweetland call = these F-3's in his latest book F-5's? Would these F-5's have been turbocharged? Regards all, Bob Holden PRRT&HS # 5044 Northern Central Chapter Bob Holden, PRRT&HS #5044 Nothern Central Chapter ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCA79.D1B7CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jerry...Everybody...
 
I won't take up time with this question, apparently there have been = previous dicussions on it...but can we assume that what EMD called a = F-5...would=20 have been a phase 1V F-3, with a V-16 567-B Engine...with a conventional = Roots=20 Blower? Probably would have had the stainless steel grills as opposed to = the=20 'chicken wire'?  Jerry, did Dave Sweetland call these F-3's in his = latest=20 book F-5's?
Would these F-5's have been = turbocharged?
 
Regards all,
 
Bob Holden
PRRT&HS # 5044
Northern Central Chapter
 
 
Bob Holden, PRRT&HS #5044
Nothern Central Chapter
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BFCA79.D1B7CB00-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:50:16 EDT Subject: [PRR] Paint Color Suggestions Gize, Here is a chance for you to be heard by one of the paint manufacturers. Mike Lindsay sent this message to me, and I thought I would pass it along. Stuart Thayer Original Message: Testor's is expanding their Floquil line of paint and needs color suggestions. Here's your chance to let them know what you really want. Forward this note to other modelers. Send your suggestions to lnace@testors.com< /A>. Please tell them that Model Railroad News sent you. Thanks! Mike Lindsay Model Railroad News ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:06:30 -0500 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Bowser G5s discontinued at this time --------------5C0410370928F6EC71BB683A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, I just looked at Bowser's web page, and the G5s is discontinued at this time. The other Bowser engine that appears to be discontinued is the Big Boy (which, parochial as I am, did not concern me as much). I hope this discontinuance is not permanent (the previous version of the T1 was discontinued before the upgraded version came out). I happen to really like building my steam fleet from kits, and I buy engines whenever I can afford them. I'm lucky that I built my model of the 5741 in 1994, but I'm hoping Bowser will bring back the G5s soon, so I can build at least one more. Doug --------------5C0410370928F6EC71BB683A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list,

I just looked at Bowser's web page, and the G5s is discontinued at this time.  The other Bowser engine that appears to be discontinued is the Big Boy (which, parochial as I am, did not concern me as much).  I hope this discontinuance is not permanent  (the previous version of the T1 was discontinued before the upgraded version came out).

I happen to really like building my steam fleet from kits, and I buy engines whenever I can afford them.  I'm lucky that I built my model of the 5741 in 1994, but I'm hoping Bowser will bring back the G5s soon, so I can build at least one more.

Doug --------------5C0410370928F6EC71BB683A-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] Keystones Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:01:50 -0500 Thanks to everyone who expressed an interest in the duplicate back issue Keystones I have. I found a buyer. Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:15:36 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Stuart and all, I don't know for certain that the Santa Fe's F5's (if that's what they were) were delivered with the F3 style dynamic grids, but I do know that they were eventually equipped with F7 style fans. I dunno if they were delivered with the fans or not...apparently no pictures that I am aware of exist. As for the PRR's units, anybody out there know for sure? Bill Daniels At 06:06 PM 5/30/00 -0400, Stuthayer@aol.com wrote: >The F5 was actually an F3 with F7 electrical equipment if I remember >right. Externally they would look like an F7 except for the Dynamic Brake >equipment that was the same as that used on earlier F3's. There were >quite a few roads that had the F5. > >Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:26:23 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G5s discontinued at this time Doug, I haven't had the opportunity to put one of these together...still am thinking about my L1s. I have a friend (who apparently is new to the list...see Jerry, I am putting the word out!) who is from Pittsburgh and would maybe would also like to assemble one. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:45:10 -0400 (EDT) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Hi all... If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while though. Although not as nice you can even still find the Liliput version of this engine from time to time. My biggest complaint on this engine is the valve gear,cast on detail and the gears that tend to strip out. One plus is the tender they came with. More of the type you would normally find with the G-5 Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Steve Hoxie" Subject: [PRR] Proto 1000 C-liner Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:40:13 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFCA90.66C8CBC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am detailing two Proto 1000 C-liners. In the photos that I have = showing the roofs of these units, there are two what I assume to be lift = rings at the rear, prominently protruding above the roof line. Does = anyone have a photo of the rear of an FF16 that shows these lift rings? Thanks! Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFCA90.66C8CBC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am detailing two Proto 1000 = C-liners.  In=20 the photos that I have showing the roofs of these units, there are two = what I=20 assume to be lift rings at the rear, prominently protruding above the = roof=20 line.  Does anyone have a photo of the rear of an FF16 that shows = these=20 lift rings?
 
Thanks!
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BFCA90.66C8CBC0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:14:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 From: Jerry Britton On 5/31/00 12:45 AM, bubbles@visi.net at (bubbles@visi.net) wrote: > If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. > Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in > well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on > E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the > other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its > not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while > though. > Not so. Bowser is already out. I noted the G5 dropping off the dealer price list and asked Lee English about it. It is indeed "unavailable at this time", as Lee put it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:55:11 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? In a message dated 5/30/00 10:15:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: << I don't know for certain that the Santa Fe's F5's (if that's what they were) were delivered with the F3 style dynamic grids, but I do know that they were eventually equipped with F7 style fans. I dunno if they were delivered with the fans or not...apparently no pictures that I am aware of exist. As for the PRR's units, anybody out there know for sure? >> Bill, I can pretty much guarantee that the ATSF units as well as the PRR units would have been delivered with the F3-style dynamic grids. In the case of the ATSF, they were most likely replaced by the ATSF with fans at some point. There were a lot of instances of tis type of thing happening on the ATSF and other roads. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 05:15:55 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Thanks, Stuart. I wasn't sure whether they were delivered with the slit grids or fans. Although the Santa Fe did not replace the grids on their fleet of F3's (the famous Warbonnet locomotives...although all versions of their F locomotives (FT's through F9's) wore the warbonnet at one time or another, the F3 was the stereotypical locomotive) I wonder if they did on the first two sets of the 200 class locomotives. I am pretty sure the PRR didn't go for rebuilding as much as the ATSF did. Bill At 07:55 AM 5/31/00 -0400, Stuthayer@aol.com wrote: >Bill, > >I can pretty much guarantee that the ATSF units as well as the PRR units >would have been delivered with the F3-style dynamic grids. In the case of >the ATSF, they were most likely replaced by the ATSF with fans at some point. > There were a lot of instances of tis type of thing happening on the ATSF > and >other roads. > >Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 05:20:45 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 List, Another option would be to pick up a brass (!) model of these...both Gem and Westside brought in G5's, and even by today's standards they shouldn't be too expensive. The Westside one was built by KTM and is an excellent model...the Gem one was done by Olympia and is a little more suspect. Some Gem's are gems (pardon the pun) and some are rocks. From personal experience both the H10s's and E6s's from Gem are good runners (although the details need some work...even by the standards of the mid 1960's they were pretty plain), and while I had a G5 once upon a time I can't remember how well it ran...not a good sign. Bill Daniels At 12:45 AM 5/31/00 -0400, bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hi all... > > If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. > Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in > well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on > E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the > other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its > not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while > though. > > Although not as nice you can even still find the Liliput > version of this engine from time to time. My biggest > complaint on this engine is the valve gear,cast on detail > and the gears that tend to strip out. One plus is the > tender they came with. More of the type you would normally > find with the G-5 > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:50:51 -0400 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Max Gray also imported an HO G5 in the 60's. I own one. It had a minimal mechanism (no gear box - ala Bowser) and mine has been on the workbench for a long time awaiting a new motor. The old one burned out a segment. But it looked good and had the "Pittsburgh Tender". I forget (or never knew) the particulars, but the tender has high, straight, coal bin sides with rounded ends, and a low water deck. Looks to be only 6-7000 gals. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Bill Daniels wrote: > > List, > > Another option would be to pick up a brass (!) model of these...both Gem > and Westside brought in G5's, and even by today's standards they shouldn't > be too expensive. The Westside one was built by KTM and is an excellent > model...the Gem one was done by Olympia and is a little more suspect. Some > Gem's are gems (pardon the pun) and some are rocks. From personal > experience both the H10s's and E6s's from Gem are good runners (although > the details need some work...even by the standards of the mid 1960's they > were pretty plain), and while I had a G5 once upon a time I can't remember > how well it ran...not a good sign. > > Bill Daniels > > At 12:45 AM 5/31/00 -0400, bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > > Hi all... > > > > If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. > > Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in > > well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on > > E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the > > other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its > > not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while > > though. > > > > Although not as nice you can even still find the Liliput > > version of this engine from time to time. My biggest > > complaint on this engine is the valve gear,cast on detail > > and the gears that tend to strip out. One plus is the > > tender they came with. More of the type you would normally > > find with the G-5 > > > > Til Later > > Hank Mummert > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:06:15 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Forgot about that one...but it was (basically) the same as the Westside one, also built by KTM. If I recall correctly, it had a weird motor arrangement...it probably would be better to scrap the drive and replace it with a new one. Bill At 08:50 AM 5/31/00 -0400, Andy Miller wrote: >Max Gray also imported an HO G5 in the 60's. I own one. It had a >minimal mechanism (no gear box - ala Bowser) and mine has been on the >workbench for a long time awaiting a new motor. The old one burned out >a segment. But it looked good and had the "Pittsburgh Tender". I >forget (or never knew) the particulars, but the tender has high, >straight, coal bin sides with rounded ends, and a low water deck. Looks >to be only 6-7000 gals. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >=================================================== >Bill Daniels wrote: > > > > List, > > > > Another option would be to pick up a brass (!) model of these...both Gem > > and Westside brought in G5's, and even by today's standards they shouldn't > > be too expensive. The Westside one was built by KTM and is an excellent > > model...the Gem one was done by Olympia and is a little more suspect. Some > > Gem's are gems (pardon the pun) and some are rocks. From personal > > experience both the H10s's and E6s's from Gem are good runners (although > > the details need some work...even by the standards of the mid 1960's they > > were pretty plain), and while I had a G5 once upon a time I can't remember > > how well it ran...not a good sign. > > > > Bill Daniels > > > > At 12:45 AM 5/31/00 -0400, bubbles@visi.net wrote: > > > > > Hi all... > > > > > > If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. > > > Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in > > > well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on > > > E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the > > > other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its > > > not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while > > > though. > > > > > > Although not as nice you can even still find the Liliput > > > version of this engine from time to time. My biggest > > > complaint on this engine is the valve gear,cast on detail > > > and the gears that tend to strip out. One plus is the > > > tender they came with. More of the type you would normally > > > find with the G-5 > > > > > > Til Later > > > Hank Mummert > > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > >"listserv@dsop.com". > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > > "listserv@dsop.com". > >-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:23:47 -0400 Bill and the List: I can confirm this. I picked up a Westside G-5 at a hobby shop in suburban Chicago a few years ago. The engine was new in box and was priced at $170!! I couild not believe it. But it does go to show that the early Japanese brass imports from the '60's and '70s are available and can be priced in the same range as Bowser. Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Bill Daniels [mailto:billd@gci-net.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 7:21 AM To: bubbles@visi.net; PRR-TALK@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 List, Another option would be to pick up a brass (!) model of these...both Gem and Westside brought in G5's, and even by today's standards they shouldn't be too expensive. The Westside one was built by KTM and is an excellent model...the Gem one was done by Olympia and is a little more suspect. Some Gem's are gems (pardon the pun) and some are rocks. From personal experience both the H10s's and E6s's from Gem are good runners (although the details need some work...even by the standards of the mid 1960's they were pretty plain), and while I had a G5 once upon a time I can't remember how well it ran...not a good sign. Bill Daniels At 12:45 AM 5/31/00 -0400, bubbles@visi.net wrote: > Hi all... > > If this is true,now would be the time to go out and get one. > Even if it is...you should still be able to find them in > well stocked hobby shops for a while and maybe even on > E-bay and such from time to time like you do some of the > other engines from the Bowser line. I sincerly hope its > not true. Bowser should have a good stock of them for a while > though. > > Although not as nice you can even still find the Liliput > version of this engine from time to time. My biggest > complaint on this engine is the valve gear,cast on detail > and the gears that tend to strip out. One plus is the > tender they came with. More of the type you would normally > find with the G-5 > > Til Later > Hank Mummert > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Andy, Bill The Max Gray G5 and the Westside are one in the same. KTM built for both importers. First when Max Gray was importing and then when Westside took over. This was similar practice with the AHM J and the Westside J (So I am told). Both also built by KTM. I had 1 of each of the G5's here about a year ago painting for customers and they were identical in every way. Except for the Max Gray Loco frame and I think the Tender base and trucks, they had a Gun Metal finish to them. I own a Westside G5 and placed a new can motor in it and it is one of the finest runners I have. Some thoughts on the Bowser G5. Although discontinued now, I look for it to be resurected as an upgraded model. Perhaps as a delux kit OR if their J1 is a success with the help of the Chineese, you may find a "Proto 2000 Quality" plastic ready to run G5 down the road. Pure wishing and Speculation only. Probably wrong, But one can wish. I could use 4 or 5 G's for my commuters out of Pgh..... Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:42:55 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Gary and all, KTM also built for Balboa. As you mentioned, the locos built by KTM are pretty much the same over the years regardless of who imported them. If you can find one at a good price their solid construction and good detail make these a "best buy". I would love to see a P2k/Athearn quality PRR steam loco on the market...my choice would be for someone to do a H9s/E6s/G5 series. The number of PRR consols alone would guarantee good sales. These would use the same boiler (the G5 would have the modern steel cab, but if designed with seperate cabs (as Roundhouse does with their steam locos) this would not be a problem.) The H9s/E6s could share a common low tender, with a "Pittsburgh" tender as an alternative (I think that both the consols and atlantics also used these tanks). Anyone out there got any questions? Bill Daniels At 09:25 AM 5/31/00 -0400, Gary Mittner wrote: >Andy, Bill > > The Max Gray G5 and the Westside are one in the same. KTM built for >both importers. First when Max Gray was importing and then when Westside >took over. This was similar practice with the AHM J and the Westside J >(So I am told). Both also built by KTM. I had 1 of each of the G5's >here about a year ago painting for customers and they were identical in >every way. Except for the Max Gray Loco frame and I think the Tender >base and trucks, they had a Gun Metal finish to them. I own a Westside >G5 and placed a new can motor in it and it is one of the finest runners >I have. > Some thoughts on the Bowser G5. Although discontinued now, I look >for it to be resurected as an upgraded model. Perhaps as a delux kit OR >if their J1 is a success with the help of the Chineese, you may find a >"Proto 2000 Quality" plastic ready to run G5 down the road. Pure wishing >and Speculation only. Probably wrong, But one can wish. I could use 4 or >5 G's for my commuters out of Pgh..... Gary > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR F5's??? Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:18:18 -0700 Guys, I don't believe that PRR ever replaced the dynamic brake grids with fans, as no photos I've seen indicate this. However, nothing, even (or especially) on PRR, is impossible. A person also has to be exceedingly careful assigning PRR F units to groups, as the numbers are not in order. I think there is general agreement that the PRR had no F-5s, although some might argue otherwise. And little things you would think indicated something, like the little numberboards on an early group of F-7's, or the two PRR F's with indented (a.k.a. "freight") pilots (9518A, 9519A? of the first EH15 helper set), or the larger tanks on the last series of F-7s, were just typical PRR ordering anomalies. The completion dates are all mixed up within each series, so some later units in the number series were finished earlier than some earlier numbered units. Go figure! I think someone you know is working on a treatment of the PRR F's for the Keystone that will indicate all the features on these units. And don't even get started on a discussion about the "overhang" on the ends of the units....it's not an either "had them" or "not" situation! Base yours on photos! It would be really interesting to see some more of the anomalies brought to light! Elden -----Original Message----- From: Stuthayer@aol.com [mailto:Stuthayer@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 4:55 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? In a message dated 5/30/00 10:15:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time, billd@gci-net.com writes: << I don't know for certain that the Santa Fe's F5's (if that's what they were) were delivered with the F3 style dynamic grids, but I do know that they were eventually equipped with F7 style fans. I dunno if they were delivered with the fans or not...apparently no pictures that I am aware of exist. As for the PRR's units, anybody out there know for sure? >> Bill, I can pretty much guarantee that the ATSF units as well as the PRR units would have been delivered with the F3-style dynamic grids. In the case of the ATSF, they were most likely replaced by the ATSF with fans at some point. There were a lot of instances of tis type of thing happening on the ATSF and other roads. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PRR] Diesel Qustion Modelers, I am more of a Steam Modeler but from time to time I have the opportunity to mess with Diesels. Not having very many photos of GP-30's, I put this question out to those who do. The subject is Radio Anttennas. I have just completed a GP-30 Body Shell. Plenty of details have been added and the unit is now painted. Now, I have the Radio Equipped Decal. Were these in fact applied to the cabs while the loco was still wearing the anttennas? Or was the decal applied after the new generation radios were installed and the anttenna removed?. Any help or photo proof with both the Anttenna and Decal at the same time would be appreciated...TIA, Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:17:57 -0400 From: Nick Kulp Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Gary, Due to all of the different opinions about the J1 from Bowser I don't know who to believe. I have heard the rumors about a plastic J1 and I have also heard from a couple of dealers that Lee is NOT doing a J1 in plastic, he is doing a cast boiler and keeping the "made in the USA" logo on his products. Can anybody actually comfirm it will be a Plastic (Chinese brass) loco ? Nick Kulp >Andy, Bill > > Some thoughts on the Bowser G5. Although discontinued now, I look >for it to be resurected as an upgraded model. Perhaps as a delux kit OR >if their J1 is a success with the help of the Chineese, you may find a >"Proto 2000 Quality" plastic ready to run G5 down the road. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] LAST CHANCE for PRR B60 Baggage Car Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:27:09 -0400 Dear PRR list: I finished the scale drawing of the PRR B60 baggage car "as built" with the rivited side truck frames and four windows per side. As far as I know, this is the only drawing that exists of the B60 baggage car, and will become the "official" source for dimensions, layout etc. by default. I have not drawn the underbody details on the side elevation because I have no information about the underbody layout and I am not that well versed in the history of PRR undercarraige appliances. (Any help will be appreciated) The history I have accumulated of this car is also very scant. I don't have very much to say in the history article that will accompany the drawing. The only number for this car that I am sure of is the one on the builder's photo! Let's say that this is the last chance for you to add your 2 cents to the pot of information BEFORE this is published and the scant info becomes gospel :-). Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Stephen A. D'Addio" Subject: Re: [PRR] LAST CHANCE for PRR B60 Baggage Car Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:31:17 -0400 Lew, B60B Express Messenger cars had numbers 9200-9399 (200 cars). This is according to, "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger and Freight Car Diagrams" by Wayner Publications, 1981, p7. Standard B60 & B60A are also diagramed, but car numbers and quantities are not mentioned, p10. B60 #5753 and B60B #'s 9171, 9325 & 9321 are pictured in, "Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering," published by the PRRT&HS, on pages 15-16. "PRR Color Guide to Freight And Passenger Equipment," vol 2, p31, lists B60B car numbers 9200-9399. This agrees with Wayner's publication. More complete information can be found in, "Pennsylvania Railroad Heavyweight Passenger Equipment Plan and Photo Book," published by N.J. International, pages 8-13. It also lists ALL car numbers and TRUCK types. There is no distinction between subclasses. Hope this info is usefull! Good luck, Steve D'Addio ----- Original Message ----- From: lew matt To: PRR talk Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 6:27 PM Subject: [PRR] LAST CHANCE for PRR B60 Baggage Car > Dear PRR list: > > I finished the scale drawing of the PRR B60 baggage car "as built" with the > rivited side truck frames and four windows per side. As far as I know, this > is the only drawing that exists of the B60 baggage car, and will become the > "official" source for dimensions, layout etc. by default. I have not drawn > the underbody details on the > side elevation because I have no information about the underbody layout and > I am not that well versed in the history of PRR undercarraige appliances. > (Any help will be appreciated) The history I have accumulated of this car > is also very scant. I don't have very much to say in the history article > that will accompany the drawing. The only number for this car that I am > sure of is the one on the builder's photo! Let's say that this is the last > chance for you to add your 2 cents to the pot of information BEFORE this is > published and the scant info becomes gospel :-). > > Lew Matt > > White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower. > We market a wide selection of all natural jams, jellies, pickles, dried > fruits and vegetables and herbs. E-mail your USPS address to us for our > current price list. White Buck Farm is located in Greene County, > Pennsylvania, USA > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:05:36 DST Subject: [PRR] PRR fleet steam locos(was G-5 Bowser) From: aurora7@juno.com Being a LIRR fan, my love of the G-5 is unparalelled. I purchased a GEM G-5 in brass several years back, and have it painted up as LIRR #24. The tender of this engine is wrong, but I'm not going to quibble. My hope would be that a low priced (say $35.00 - $50.00) group of PRR locos in the E-6, H-10, G-5, and C-1 wheel arrangements would be produced. In essence, these are all the same boiler. Detailing with keystones or rounded plated would be easy for the builder, and the frame and wheel arrangements would make it fairly simple to produce these engines in mass. Richard Glueck Peace of the Planet Farm Winterport, Maine ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:33:09 -0400 Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 From: Jerry Britton On 5/31/00 6:17 PM, Nick Kulp at (caseyj@mail.igateway.com) wrote: > Due to all of the different opinions about the J1 from Bowser I don't know > who to believe. I have heard the rumors about a plastic J1 and I have also > heard from a couple of dealers that Lee is NOT doing a J1 in plastic, he is > doing a cast boiler and keeping the "made in the USA" logo on his products. > Can anybody actually comfirm it will be a Plastic (Chinese brass) loco ? > I have the e-mails from Lee himself indicating a hybrid product. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:48:20 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Qustion Gary, and everyone else, In a word, NO. The decal was to designate units that were equipped with the then-new high-frequency radio, and not the inductive train phone system. Of course, once I state this, somebody will come up with a photo of a unit with antennas with the decals :-) (probably a unit with the inductive equipment removed, but still with antennas) but I wouldn't hold my breath. Incidentally, I believe that the GP30's were the last delivered units with the antennas...the U25B's delivered next had no antennas. Bill Daniels At 12:07 PM 5/31/00 -0400, Gary Mittner wrote: >Modelers, > > I am more of a Steam Modeler but from time to time I have the >opportunity to mess with Diesels. Not having very many photos of >GP-30's, I put this question out to those who do. The subject is Radio >Anttennas. I have just completed a GP-30 Body Shell. Plenty of details >have been added and the unit is now painted. Now, I have the Radio >Equipped Decal. Were these in fact applied to the cabs while the loco >was still wearing the anttennas? Or was the decal applied after the new >generation radios were installed and the anttenna removed?. Any help or >photo proof with both the Anttenna and Decal at the same time would be >appreciated...TIA, Gary > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:53:30 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR fleet steam locos(was G-5 Bowser) Richard, Remember, it's only wrong for the LIRR G5's. They were built with the KW tender most commonly associated with the later stoker fired K4s. But this shows that with some careful thought most variations can be accommodated. Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:12:29 EDT Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR F5's??? In a message dated 5/31/00 9:18:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, egatwood@spl.usace.army.mil writes: << Guys, I don't believe that PRR ever replaced the dynamic brake grids with fans, as no photos I've seen indicate this. >> I would agree with this. << I think there is general agreement that the PRR had no F-5s, although some might argue otherwise. >> I am one of them, based on what EMD called an F5, and that the PRR had some of said units. However, I am not going to argue the point with anyone. Stuart Thayer ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:06:38 -0400 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] Re: New Brighton Flyover Gary Mittner wrote: > Jeff, I know of no site that has the Flyover posted. Here we go: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrightonFlyover.htm Now then, this is a work in progress so if ya'll have something to add or any critiques, corrections, suggestions, or complaints, then this is the best time to speak up. Yes, I know it is a long download. Once I get more material I'll create seperate pages for the Park, the trains, ETT pages, maps and whatnot. I am especially looking for old images. Construction phase pictures would be sweet. I might have to go to the New Brighton Public library for those. Enjoy- -- Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com Conrail Detroit Shared Assests Area website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/SAA/SAA.htm Lost and Found Railroad Railroad Photographs website: http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Found/found.htm CSX in Southeast Michigan website: http://members.aol.com/jsundin357/plydiam.html Railroading in Ohio website (still under construction): http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/ohio.htm New Brighton, PA Flyover Page (still under construction): http://www.msen.com/~jknorek/Pgh/NewBrightonFlyover.htm "Everything in moderation, including moderation" - Walter Allison Brown ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:14:43 EDT But will it be a Kit???? I would rather have a kit. Sam Vastano >From: Jerry Britton >To: Nick Kulp , Gary Mittner >CC: >Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 >Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:33:09 -0400 > >On 5/31/00 6:17 PM, Nick Kulp at (caseyj@mail.igateway.com) wrote: > > > Due to all of the different opinions about the J1 from Bowser I don't >know > > who to believe. I have heard the rumors about a plastic J1 and I have >also > > heard from a couple of dealers that Lee is NOT doing a J1 in plastic, he >is > > doing a cast boiler and keeping the "made in the USA" logo on his >products. > > Can anybody actually comfirm it will be a Plastic (Chinese brass) loco ? > > >I have the e-mails from Lee himself indicating a hybrid product. >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > >"Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of >Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana >products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", >the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- >Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are >providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit >our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. >------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Sam Vastano" Subject: [PRR] Window trim color on a T1? Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:18:45 EDT For all the PRR gurus, Since I am just a kid when it comes to my knowledge of the PRR What color was the trim around the windows of a T1 and a J1? since I am asking. Thanks Sam ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PRR] Window trim color on a T1? Sam, Best guess would be Dulux (same as the lettering) for the J1 Freight Loco and Brass Color to match the Gold Leaf lettering of a T1. This color probably changed if and when the T1 lettering changed to Dulux....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:29:35 -0700 From: Bill Daniels Subject: Re: [PRR] Window trim color on a T1? Sam, I think that the trim on the J1's was aluminium. Don't know about the T'1's however, color photos are scarce. Bill Daniels At 10:18 PM 5/31/00 -0400, Sam Vastano wrote: >For all the PRR gurus, Since I am just a kid when it comes to my knowledge >of the PRR What color was the trim around the windows of a T1 and a J1? >since I am asking. > >Thanks > >Sam > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:35:35 EDT Subject: [PRR] Steel Mill Questions Did the PRR or the Reading service Midvale Heppenstal Steel Co. in Philadelphia? Did the PRR or the Reading service Allan Wood Steel in Conshohocken PA? What was the name of Phoenix Steel in Claymont Delaware in the late 50's and who serviced it? What was the name of the Armco Steel Co. works near Sparrows Point Maryland and who serviced it? Thanks for any information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:42:06 -0400 From: ERIC LAUTERBACH Subject: Re: [PRR] Bowser G-5 After seeing how incredible the new plastic steam engines are, its hard to argue for anything but a plastic locomotive. Take a look at the photos of the new Life Like 0-8-0 on their web page. It looks great. I just can't imagine a hybrid or a metal kit living up to the standard that these new plastic engines set. Nothing agianst the old Bowser kits, but next to these new engines they seem to lack something. When one takes into account the time spent putting together the kits and painting them and getting them to run just right, the kits probably cost a little more too. I would also like to see the H, G, and E in plastic. Even at around the 100 price range, they would be a deal if they were like the newer plastic. Eric Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 5/31/00 6:17 PM, Nick Kulp at (caseyj@mail.igateway.com) wrote: > > > Due to all of the different opinions about the J1 from Bowser I don't know > > who to believe. I have heard the rumors about a plastic J1 and I have also > > heard from a couple of dealers that Lee is NOT doing a J1 in plastic, he is > > doing a cast boiler and keeping the "made in the USA" logo on his products. > > Can anybody actually comfirm it will be a Plastic (Chinese brass) loco ? > > > I have the e-mails from Lee himself indicating a hybrid product. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:29:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [PRR] LAST CHANCE for PRR B60 Baggage Car Hi Lew, There is an online photo of a B60 at http://gowest.coalliance.org/cgi-bin/imager?00014482 Also, "Railway and Locomotive Engineering Sep 1909 pg 394 has a photo of B60 number 5623. Looks like a builders photo, maybe the one you have already. Does that help any? - Claus > I finished the scale drawing of the PRR B60 baggage car "as built" with the > rivited side truck frames and four windows per side. As far as I know, this > is the only drawing that exists of the B60 baggage car, and will become the > "official" source for dimensions, layout etc. by default. I have not drawn > the underbody details on the > side elevation because I have no information about the underbody layout and > I am not that well versed in the history of PRR undercarraige appliances. > (Any help will be appreciated) The history I have accumulated of this car > is also very scant. I don't have very much to say in the history article > that will accompany the drawing. The only number for this car that I am > sure of is the one on the builder's photo! Let's say that this is the last > chance for you to add your 2 cents to the pot of information BEFORE this is > published and the scant info becomes gospel :-). > > Lew Matt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steel Mill Questions Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:18:45 -0500 The only answer I can help with is: Armco Steel Co. - Rustless Iron & Steel Division, Baltimore, MD Regards, Greg Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 9:35 PM Subject: [PRR] Steel Mill Questions > Did the PRR or the Reading service Midvale Heppenstal Steel Co. in > Philadelphia? > Did the PRR or the Reading service Allan Wood Steel in Conshohocken PA? > What was the name of Phoenix Steel in Claymont Delaware in the late 50's and > who serviced it? > What was the name of the Armco Steel Co. works near Sparrows Point Maryland > and who serviced it? > Thanks for any information. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!!