From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:01:50 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fa1613aa2443fd96d2cb3c4f72e40175 Jerry and List, I'm using: - Atlas Code 100 Flex and #6 switches hidden staging yards - Micro-Engineering Code 100 / Peco Insulfrog Code 100 Switches ("DCC Friendly") on the Mainline - Micro-Engineering Code 83 / Atlas Code 83 #4/#6 and Tilig Code 83 #5 switches (also all "DCC friendly"), in branchlines and yards. I like the look and "feel" of the M-E track - although being stiff it is a little harder to work with than the Atlas "super-flex". So far, I've had a bit of a hard time finding the M-E Code 100 track - though it looks like Standard Hobby Supply just came through. Some of the Peco turnouts appear to be in short supply as well. I have been impressed with the Tillig turnouts, as an alternative to code 83 Atlas or Shinohara - European prototype close-up but weathered rail with continuous (no pivot) point rails. Also, I understand that the Shinohara/Walthers turnouts can take quite a bit of work to make "DCC friendly". Mike Hagan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: OnTrackHby@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:40:39 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f055ed91251751faaa5ab5a97e6cf113 Jerry; Many of your observations about Code 100 versus Code 83 rail are right on target. In many instances, particularly on the PRR, Code 100 rail (155 lb) would be the correct rail size, but for the mainline only. I think that the first problem you may run into though is the appearance differences between the two, particularly if you use different brands. I have found that while the Atlas track is generally less expensive, the ties, ties spacing and spike head size is grossly out of scale. My preference when it comes to track is the Micro-Engineering line of track. While this track is definitely more difficult to lay, once down, the appearance is well worth the effort. If in doubt, my suggestion would be to buy a couple of lengths of the various brands, lay them down on a test board, then weather and ballast the track and see for yourself. I think you will be convinced. The M.E. brand ties, tie spacing and spike heads are much finer and yield a much better appearance overall. As far as turnouts, again, the ME brand do look nicer, but here I have a hard time making a recommendation. My limited experience with this brand of turnout is not favorable due to poor construction. There is a tendency for the point rails to 'fall apart', and the frog is not always well in line with the turnout. I prefer the Shinohara/Walther's line of turnouts. Many larger hobby dealers carry both of these lines, since they compliment one another. Finally, as to rail size, on my layout I use all codes (100 for hidden track, 83 on the main, 70 in the yards, secondary trackage and some industrial track, and even 55 on some other industrial trackage). Yes, the smaller the rail size, the more careful you need to be. After careful trackwork, I have not experienced ANY problems, however, I must emphasize not only careful trackwork, but well tuned loco's and rolling stock as it concerns wheel sets (I recommend Kadee or similar metal type wheelsets) and keeping wheels in gauge. I think appearance sums it all up though - the smaller the rail size, the heavier looking your equipment looks sitting on the rail! I've always considered the trackwork as much a part of the scenery as anything else. The more time and effort spent up front during this part of construction will come back in terms of visual enjoyment over the years time and time again! I have no regrets at all. Best of luck! Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 03:02:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1ec2d88ffc902ab8db2bbfb2d3cbffaa In a message dated 11/30/1999 11:11:04 PM Central Standard Time, Ljgurke@aol.com writes: << Also, I understand that the Shinohara/Walthers turnouts can take quite a bit of work to make "DCC friendly". >> Just a gentle rejoinder that the so-called unfriendly DCC turnout problem is more one of out-of gage and out of spec wheels and wheelsets than it is the turnouts (unless the turnout happens to be out of spec as well). As someone pointed out on the LDSIG list, wheels that are within spec operate well on analog DC and DCC; wheels that are out of spec short analog DC and DCC. You notice the latter more on DCC because you shut down the whole system. The same guys who shut down DCC systems have been shutting down analog DC blocks for years. To personalize the issue, I recently made the comment that I had replaced the wheels in my brass cabin cars with plastic because they seemed to be the main culprits at the club in shorting out. The combination of metal truck frames and "racing slick" wide treads on old brass car wheelsets was the culprit. Subsequently, I replaced the plastic wheels with Reboxx double-insulated closer-to-prototype metal wheels and they work fine now. All my other cars have Intermountain metal wheelsets and run perfectly fine through unmodified Atlas, Shinohara, and MEW turnouts. I have also not had any problem with Atlas, Walthers, or Proto2000 diesels or Bowser M1a or Bachmann K4. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: [PRR] Right of Way flex track Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:49:16 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dc79cd493660fda912c512d60d19a2d4 Gentlemen: Since we are on the subject of flex track, I am wondering if any of you came across the brand name called "Right of Way". It was run by a fellow in Los Angeles in the late 1980's. I saw an ad in Mainline Modeler (I think) for Right of Way code 83 detailed flex track. I recievev a free test section (2") and was astonished at the detail in ties. On a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest, I would rate Micro Engineering (Rail Craft) an 8 and Right of Way an 11. The detail of the ties included the ties plates with two rail sikes and at one anchor spike. Every other tie or so was cribbed with rail anchors. I was hooked! I ordered about 30 3-foot sections and are now being installed on my layout. Soon after my order, I heard that due to declining health, the owner sold off Right of Way to someone else. I have not heard anything since. Do any of you know of this flex track and who owns the molds today? Thanks in advance for any information! Ted Andrews P.S. I do not think that Right of Way was or is related to "Right-of-Way Industries" (O scale) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:47:13 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 26564a9a664e76e11f918a756aea7ff4 Still seeking info on this... > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have been? I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:50:18 -0500 (EST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d3c7d10ab7717fece97fc5ac9dfb76e5 Jerry Britton scribit: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can think of would be in NW Pa. A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 matches: SE of Johnstown E of Pittsburgh betw. Exton and Downingtown and these 3 in NW Pa: near Lanesboro just SW of New Castle NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, or to Jerry Jordak. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:02:54 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4856515dd522b7ae54dc17eba826d2f7 I live in New Castle, The only Oakland I know of is in the city of Pittsburgh? I dont know th NKP well enough to know where it would have crossed. Sorry I can't be any more help. Sam -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Britton To: PRR-Talk LIST Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Still seeking info on this... > >> As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >> the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >> the junction area and details of what apparently was a >> separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >> there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >> haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > >I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > >Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >been? > >I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com >Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. >"Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com >"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:40:58 -0500 From: Bob Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6927722a92bb21d464ad59c42fe45463 All, Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) --Bob Colquitt Mark Bej wrote: > > Jerry Britton scribit: > > Still seeking info on this... > > > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > > Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can > think of would be in NW Pa. > > A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 > matches: > SE of Johnstown > E of Pittsburgh > betw. Exton and Downingtown > and these 3 in NW Pa: > near Lanesboro > just SW of New Castle > NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction > > I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, > or to Jerry Jordak. > > -- > Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:45:37 EST Subject: [PRR] Could it be Oakland IL? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e5754dfc03bb9b4740e1b58a8cec76cb In a message dated 11/30/99 3:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << Many of you know of Tony Koester and his infamous Allegheny Midland layout...which has been featured in MR and video many times. You may not be aware, but Tony has dismantled the AM and is preparing a new layout based on the NKP. He poses this question to the group: > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. Please forward responses to me and I'll forward to him. Thanks. >> Jerry, I wonder if the answers would be somewhat different if the query was for Oakland IL? I ask this because I know 1. Tony's hometown is Cayuga IN, almost on the Illinois line and close to the Wabash River. 2. Tony is designing a model of the Nickel Plate's Clover Leaf Third District, starting at Frankfort IN and going west/southwest toward St Louis. I believe the projected west end of the layout is the division point at Charleston IL, not far southwest of Oakland IL. 3. The Clover Leaf intersects PRR's Peoria Branch at Oakland, IL, 38.5 miles out from Terre Haute IN, and an interlocking plus block-limit station for the Pennsy (ref 1946 St. Louis Division timetable #7). In 1946, the Oakland "Block-Limit Station" is shown as being controlled by "open block station" Vigo (located in Terre Haute) 4. The 1968 PRR Southwest Division track chart shows a connecting (interchange?) track in the northwest quadrant at Oakland, with the main and this interchange track crossed by Teeter Street and by Hazel Street. It locates a telephone booth at the north (NKP) end of this connecting track, but is otherwise uninformative about the location of either the PRR or NKP station. 5. Somewhere, I think I've seen a photo of PRR Oakland station. But I haven't remembered where yet -- other SPF's help me out...... Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:57:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 30193a423dae5ba1f7169e60cbc519cb On 12/1/99 12:40 PM, Bob (wahsatch@vaix.net) wrote: > Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR > & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a > station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. > There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & > Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from > New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) Tony updates his request: > Egads! I typed "Pa." > > My sincere apologies, Jerry. The town is Oakland, ILLINOIS, > where the PRR crossed the NKP's St. Louis line. So, anyone have photos or other info on the PRR at Oakland, IL? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:08:26 -0500 Subject: [PRR] HO Scale Track Brands & The PRR From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dbe3d6ceb103f4b2dadfe24c94526f33 Greetings from the PRR's Eastern Region... Thanks to all on both the PRR-talk and LDSIG lists who responded to my questions about brands of HO scale track. The reason I could not find Shinohara on Walther's site is that they do not list it under "S". It is under "W" and is listed as "Walther's Shinohara" and includes not just Code 83, but Code 70 and Code 100 as well. The vendor ID is "948". Even a keyword search for "Shinohara" turns up empty. Guess they just don't want to sell it! Everyone seems to agree that, for the mainline PRR, Code 100 is the way to go. All also agree that Atlas, while very reliable, is way oversized for ties, spikes, etc. Micro Engineering seems to be the favorite. The prototype mains were 155 lbs., so Code 100 scales the best. As for curved turnouts, there were many suggestions and experiences. Most, but not all, recommended Shinohara. I will proceed with purchasing a few pieces from each vendor and just see how it goes. Thanks for all the input! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:29:26 -0500 From: Bob Rothrock Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cb5e9f74aeeac82533a7e20f6d41d226 FYI: I grew up in northwest PA & haunted the NKP and the PRR between the NY & Ohio state lines, and can assure you that there was/is no "Oakland, Pa." in that area. The Pennsy crossed the NKP at Thornton Junction (Springfield, PA) and had an interchange track (not a crossing) with them on the east side of Erie. Bob Rothrock Leroy, Ohio ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "wbigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:27:45 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fb76691cacc49dba080288a625e74d2e Unless the W&LE counts as NKP. . . . .? -----Original Message----- From: wbigler To: Mark Bej ; prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Based on what I know about the area, the last one has to be it unless there >are 2 Lanesboros! > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Bej >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak >Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:57 AM >Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request > > >>Jerry Britton scribit: >>> Still seeking info on this... >>> >>> > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >>> > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >>> > the junction area and details of what apparently was a >>> > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >>> > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >>> > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. >>> >>> I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! >>> Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >>> been? >>> I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. >> >>Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can >>think of would be in NW Pa. >> >>A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 >>matches: >> SE of Johnstown >> E of Pittsburgh >> betw. Exton and Downingtown >>and these 3 in NW Pa: >> near Lanesboro >> just SW of New Castle >> NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction >> >>I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, >>or to Jerry Jordak. >> >>-- >>Mark >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "wbigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:24:35 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38600cf32da3d59f9f5364463abbe711 Based on what I know about the area, the last one has to be it unless there are 2 Lanesboros! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Bej To: prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan ; JerryJordak Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request >Jerry Britton scribit: >> Still seeking info on this... >> >> > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about >> > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of >> > the junction area and details of what apparently was a >> > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited >> > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I >> > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. >> >> I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! >> Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have >> been? >> I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > >Given the words "PRR" and "NKP" and "Pa.", the only locations I can >think of would be in NW Pa. > >A search of mapquest.com for "Oakland" and "Pa." returns 6 >matches: > SE of Johnstown > E of Pittsburgh > betw. Exton and Downingtown >and these 3 in NW Pa: > near Lanesboro > just SW of New Castle > NW of the I-79 / I-80 junction > >I will defer to Al Buchan, whose territory this is, to respond further, >or to Jerry Jordak. > >-- >Mark > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:29:01 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 27087ed49f2bf6404da04525298c0e70 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about using Peco code 75 which is also available with a good range = of switch configerations and is cheaper than Shinohara or at least in = the UK.. It dosn't look to bad and they make joiners to attach to code 100 if = needed. Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What about using Peco code 75 which = is also=20 available with a good range of switch configerations and is cheaper than = Shinohara or at least in the UK..
 
It dosn't look to bad and they make = joiners to=20 attach to code 100 if needed.
 
Patrick Grace
 
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF3C32.522D6000-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:50:53 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7e4bf3cf5690e123e8425f9fa4d4fc6e Jerry Britton wrote: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. Jerry: The only Oakland, Pa. I have been able to locate is on the E&P branch north of New Castle. Are you sure he doesn't mean Oakland, Illinois? The Peoria branch crossed the NKP's Cloverleaf District at that point and both lines had separate depots (the PRR depot still stands, moved west about .3 mi.). Richard Wallis Wheaton, Il. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:44:54 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 894a6c1a91112a15dec5d210ea6a2d1d Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? Secondarily, Marshall Shops is producing an MP mail-baggage which might also be correct for mail interchange service, but (I would guess) most likely not in Texas Eagle livery. See http://www.marshallshops.com/ for pics and more info. Thanks for any info! Dennis Rockwell SPF(N) dennis@bbn.com Cambridge MA Boxcars, flatcars, going-to-North Platte cars... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: RE: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:50:46 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1656159c923ecc5bcd21b920a29349aa -----Original Message----- From: bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org [mailto:bejm@gateway.eeg.ccf.org]On Behalf Of Mark Bej Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:50 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Cc: Al Buchan; Jerry Jordak Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request Perhaps one reason no one responded is that there is no Oakland PA where the PRR crosses the NKP. There are only two places the PRR could cross the NKP in PA and that is on the P&E east of Erie or the E&P west of Erie. I know it wasn't either as the E&P was Thornton Jct. and the P&E crossing (vic OD Yard)was grade separated, NKP over PRR. However, a review of the 1945 CT 1000 shows two Oklands one in IL on the Old St. Louis Div and the other in OH on the old Cincinnati Div. A lo and behold when you go to page 475 to look at Oakland, IL it says "N.Y.C.&St.L. Connection" BINGO. And when you go to page 443 and look at Oakland, OH it only has a passing siding and two industries. So I guess its Illinois. So you should wake up to Lines West guys from their deep sleep. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:03:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1e35fc140ad1186c9851bd4459f28c20 On 12/1/99 3:44 PM, Dennis Rockwell (dennis@bbn.com) wrote: > Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger > cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 > and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of > the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and > connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP > 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, > were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? >From my "24 Hours At Harrisburg" study on "Keystone Crossings", here's the 1954 consist of the Penn Texas (originating in New York): The Penn Texas Mail Storage.....New York to St. Louis or Beyond (MS60, R50, OR B60) (Letter End East) Baggage Mail.....New York to St. Louis (BM70M) (Letter End East) Coach Baggage.....New York to St. Louis (PB70 Scheme 4) Coaches.....New York to St. Louis (P85BR) (Two cars) Tavern Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (For coach passengers) Dining Car.....New York to St. Louis Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS6L) "Alde Falls", "Aspen Falls" OR "Balsam Falls" Sleeping Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS21) "Van Wert Inn", "Urbana Inn" OR "Ashtabula Inn" Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106 OR 14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) "J . B. Bonham" (Frisco), "D. Crocket" (Frisco), "P. Laclede" (Frisco), "Swatara Rapids" (Mkt.), OR "Tioga Rapids" (Mkt.) (To Frisco-Katy No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to El Paso (14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) "Eagle City" (MP), "Eagle Beach" (MP), "Eagle Summit" (MP), "Eagle Chain" (MP), OR "Eagle Path" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 1). Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to Houston (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Sleeping Car.....New York to Columbus (PS106) Sleeping Car.....Washington to St. Louis-Houston (PS106) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). Harrisburg: Move from 575. Both the 10-6 and the 14-4 are appropriate, though it looks like they were all in MP livery. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "pgrace" Subject: [PRR] code 83 etc Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:45:46 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 29ac06df677ce6ca4665eb2996754841 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes I know but here in the UK the defacto "fine scale" standard seems to = be code 75. Peco do also of course do course 100. I believe that the = following European manufacturers do code 83 track, Tillig, Lima and Roco = but it is relatively expensive. P Grace ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes I know but here in the UK the = defacto=20 "fine scale" standard seems to be code 75. Peco do also of = course do=20 course 100. I believe that the following European manufacturers do code = 83=20 track, Tillig, Lima and Roco but it is relatively = expensive.
 
P Grace
------=_NextPart_000_0295_01BF3C4D.CE5B46E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Southport yard track assignments Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:56:03 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f1df4d362eed1f1c02ffcd1ea7943dd9 Hello to the list, First off, in the Elmira Branch book, it shows a view of southport yard with #'s to ID the tracks, but there is not a listing for the tracks usage. Anyone know which were used for a/d, storage, classification, etc. Second, the book also states that the yard was expanded in the mid 50's. Is the book view the latest arrangement or some earlier arrangement. I model 1950 and would like to know what tracks were in place at that time. thanks in advance Pete R. Reinhold Pete Reinhold Universal Die & Stampings preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:00:06 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Tender doghouses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b8b7993ec156702a153718a2ff9d097 In a message dated 11/28/99 7:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, george.pierson@trnty.edu writes: << Obviously one of the purposes of riding in the doghouse was to watch the train, especially for hotboxes. >> It always seemed to me that the law and/or union contract required a place for the head end brakie to sit. The PRR - who would rather have dispensed with this crew member on through trains decided not to go to much effort to make it comfortable, or to make it as uncomfortable as legally possible Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:56:34 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: be800db8650b7476200c224c607b7d26 Ted and the list, As far as PRR's rail in NJ, all pictures I've seen that include track details show jointed, not welded rail in the late 1940s and early 50s that I model. Doug "Andrews, Ted" wrote: > As far as the 132 pound rail in NJ is concerned, is it welded or jointed? If > it is welded, it could be "fit" or secondhand rail that was formerly jointed > but reclaimed and welded at a rail plant. When I was with Conrail, railgangs > were putting down "fit" welded rail that was 20 - 30 years old. So the rail > in NJ could fall into that category. OR, it might be one those exceptions to > the rule! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:02:29 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] February 2000 Model Railroader Article on I1sa detailing X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02c88ee9b02e1722a0a60e3e39eecd14 Steve and the list, Thanks! It's nice to know one of my inspirations is alive, well, and happy! Please, by all means share his tips with the list. I've regeared three steam engines so far, and they've come out well, but this is one area where you can never have enough information! Doug Stephen Hoxie wrote: > Doug-- > >(and Strachan's September 1978 MR > >article) > Ron is alive and quite well here in the Pensacola area, now in his eighties. > I will pass on to him that you got good use out of his article. He was at > my house two weeks ago with one of the Atlantics from the article. He is a > very interesting guy. An Englishman, he served in the British Army during > WWII and has lots of tank stories from the North African desert. He > immigrated here after the war and fell in love with eastern steam, mostly > PRR. His most notable contribution to my modeling expertise was showing me > how to get HO steam engines, usually brass, to run right with an idler > gearbox and Sagami can motor. Everything he has runs like a fine watch. > > Just thought you might like to know. > > Steve Hoxie > Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:04:00 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] HO rolling stock list X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e73722317f3b2dcd1715abf2c95f6ea5 Hello list, Rob's PRR page (Jerry has links to it from the Keystone Crossings site) has pages for every major PRR freight car class and appropriate HO models for most of them. Happy hunting! Doug NDBPRR@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone compiled a list of cars that are pototypical for the PRR in HO? If > so please E mail or post which web site has it. Thanks. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:18:01 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Correcting Bowser I1sa steam pipes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1564aa9e88310692631c4601f14dd109 Hello list, Don Harper deserves the credit for this idea, he made the observation in a previous post that the Bowser I1sa steam pipes didn't go high enough up the smokebox, In my last Bowser order, I got a pair of the M1 steam pipes, as Don suggested, and I've successfully adapted them to my abuilding 4483. There is some surgery involved, including drilling two holes in the I1sa cylinder block for the M1 steam pipes. The major work involves cutting the running boards on both sides to clear the new, taller, steam pipes. I used a razor saw for the early cuts, and then I used a cutting bit in my Dremel to grind away enough of the remaining running board to clear the new steam pipes. My left hand running board was a little easier than the right because I'd already cut it away to install the new styrene extension I used for my mechanical lubricator equipped prototype (the Bowser engine has a low running board on both the left and right sides). Things went back together pretty easily, and I'm pleased with the new pipes. Again, thanks Don! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:22:39 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Right of Way flex track X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eebaac7611dde6e9222c151227c921aa Hi, Ted, Right O' Way was previously owned, as I remember, by Gene LaVancil. The present owner is Lou Cross, 23682 Road 15 3/4, Chowchilla, Calif. 93610-9316. Telephone 559-665-1001 He will send a list and samples for an SSAE. This past year I had occasion to order 400 ft of O Scale .148 steel rail in 6 foot lengths. Mr. Cross is very pleasant to do business with. Subject: Right of Way flex track From: "Andrews, Ted" Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:49:16 -0500 Gentlemen: Since we are on the subject of flex track, I am wondering if any of you came across the brand name called "Right of Way". ............... Soon after my order, I heard that due to declining health, the owner sold off Right of Way to someone else. I have not heard anything since. Do any of you know of this flex track and who owns the molds today? Thanks in advance for any information! Ted Andrews P.S. I do not think that Right of Way was or is related to "Right-of-Way Industries" (O scale) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ljgurke@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:52:47 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8382c9bfb6578f7d22f6b7c8c0824198 In a message dated 12/1/99 3:09:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobspf@aol.com writes: << Just a gentle rejoinder that the so-called unfriendly DCC turnout problem is more one of out-of gage and out of spec wheels and wheelsets than it is the turnouts (unless the turnout happens to be out of spec as well) >> Thanks Bob! I often suspected that this was the case, but I never heard it explained as definitively and succinctly as you put it! Mike Hagan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Jimy6b@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:15:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] HO Scale Track Brands & The PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 895d4ea6b6be105e74aa4b41255187bd I must take exception with the statement that Atlas track is out of scale. True Atlas code 100 track is not the best looking track but their code 83 track is in scale ties and all. In my opinion it is the best looking track and is very easy to work with. Plus it is very reasonably priced and readily available. James ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:29:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 042f6b29fbffd304fa47b1500d954047 List, This post goes out to the modelers on this list but especially to the brass dealers and collectors that may be lurking here. This past summer while talking to a fellow Pennsy Modeler I recently met, the conversation of PRR J1's came up. He is the biggest fan of this loco I have ever seen. He is also a Brass Locomoive buyer. Again, specificlly a buyer of the J1 Models that were released by Key Imports. I believe he has 5 of them. All from the first run of 1985. They also released a run in 1992. The 1992 release had a few different features than the earlier run. Nothing major except for the Tender which had the high sides, and long sanding lines that a few real J1,s had. Being an expert on the J's that this guy is, he is still trying to figure out something about the Key J1 that was released in 1992. There were evidently 2 Key Import J1 models released that year. We know for a fact that J1 #6464 was released in both painted and unpainted versions. However, we need info on the other J1 that was released in 1992. What number was this J1 given? It was also released as a painted and unpainted version. Is it identical to the #6464 J1 or was there differences in the detailing, ie: Antenna, long or short sanding pipes, notch nose, etc.? Is there anyone with knowledge pertaining to these models. If here is any owner of these 1992 released J'1 2-10-4's here on the list, please by all means get in touch with me and let me know which loco numbers your J's represent. I was lucky enough to find and purchase one of the 1992 J1s, #6464, recently and recieved it today. What a Model!!! These things do not come up for sale very often so I had to act fast. Hope to hear from someone soon....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Berndt" Subject: [PRR] M-497 gas turbine powered RDC Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:44 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 815d5f76898c112c991414a71ddc4dff Below is a recent comment from the pages of Invention & Technology Magazine on the 1966 run of NYC's gas turbine powered M-497. As a witness to the runs I never doubted that it was dangerous as it ran through several towns and cities. PRR-NYC rivalry? __________ A Dangerous Stunt? At the risk of reigniting the "red-green" wars brought on by the merger of the Pennsylvania and New York Central Railroads in 1968, I feel compelled to offer comment on "Postfix: Jet Train," by Ed Pershey, in your Fall 1999 issue. I was at the time the Pennsylvania Railroad's coordinator of the Northeast Corridor Demonstration Project, a government-railroad-supplier partnership that ultimately brought the Metroliner and Turbo-train to service in 1969. In 1966 our project had just gotten under way with road tests of four cars. Our testing eventually achieved the contractually required speed of 155 mph, as we struggled with all manner of difficulties, but the New York Central jet train's achievement of the record speed of 183-plus mph rocked the Pennsylvania Railroad at the highest levels, coming as a complete surprise to a "red team" that had assumed that the merger agreement between the two companies was a fait accompli and that planning was being conducted in an open and straightforward manner. I have been told on good authority that the reaction to the news was electric, as outrage consumed the Pennsylvania's chairman and merger architect Stuart T. Saunders and his staff. There is no doubt that a North American rail-speed record was set, but whatever else was learned from the experience is most obscure. The flight of the M-497 seems to have been no more than a stunt to take the edge off the Pennsylvania's prominent role in the Northeast Corridor project-and probably a dangerous stunt. I was later reliably told by a colleague, who was personally involved with the preparation of the vehicle and also claimed to have been aboard for the run, that the M- 497 was actually airborne at times when passing over grade crossings at high speed. If indeed disaster was so nearly averted, it was a high risk to take for a mere publicity stunt. Whatever the case, the M-497's run served to agitate the New York Central's future merger partner and perhaps presaged an atmosphere that would ultimately help to bring down all the railroads of the Northeast. The jet train was a diversion, and the current state of high-speed rail in the United States, sorry though it may be, owes nothing to its risky one-time flash of speed on level tangent track through Midwestern cornfields one day in 1966. Robert B. Watson, Devon, Pa. __________ Craig Berndt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 08:05:51 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: da876f355f011045c35732f69ebf5aa3 All the cars you marked as (MP) were indeed in MoPac livery; but several (Eagle Cove for one) were PRR cars and said so at the ends of the letterboard. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > On 12/1/99 3:44 PM, Dennis Rockwell (dennis@bbn.com) wrote: > > > Marshall Shops is producing N Scale Texas Eagle passenger > > cars, and I was wondering if anybody can tell me if the 14-4 > > and 10-6 would be appropriate for inclusion in a model of > > the Penn Texas in 1954, which included a few MP sleepers and > > connected to the Texas Eagle (or at least with MP 1 and MP > > 21, if I read the consist sheet correctly). In other words, > > were those sleepers in MP, Texas Eagle, or PRR livery? > > From my "24 Hours At Harrisburg" study on "Keystone Crossings", here's the > 1954 consist of the Penn Texas (originating in New York): > > The Penn Texas > Mail Storage.....New York to St. Louis or Beyond (MS60, R50, OR B60) (Letter > End East) > Baggage Mail.....New York to St. Louis (BM70M) (Letter End East) > Coach Baggage.....New York to St. Louis (PB70 Scheme 4) > Coaches.....New York to St. Louis (P85BR) (Two cars) > Tavern Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (For coach passengers) > Dining Car.....New York to St. Louis > Lounge Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS6L) "Alde Falls", "Aspen Falls" OR > "Balsam Falls" > Sleeping Car.....New York to St. Louis (PS21) "Van Wert Inn", "Urbana Inn" > OR "Ashtabula Inn" > Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106 OR 14 roomettes, 4 double > bedrooms) "J . B. Bonham" (Frisco), "D. Crocket" (Frisco), "P. Laclede" > (Frisco), "Swatara Rapids" (Mkt.), OR "Tioga Rapids" (Mkt.) (To Frisco-Katy > No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to El Paso (14 roomettes, 4 double bedrooms) > "Eagle City" (MP), "Eagle Beach" (MP), "Eagle Summit" (MP), "Eagle Chain" > (MP), OR "Eagle Path" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 1). > Sleeping Car.....New York to San Antonio (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle > Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle > Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP)(To Mo. Pac. No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to Houston (PS106) "Eagle Grande" (MP), "Eagle > Eye" (MP), "Eagle Cove" (MP), "Eagle Charm" (MP), "Eagle Bluff" (MP), "Eagle > Chief" (MP), OR "Eagle Beam" (MP) (To Mo. Pac. No. 21). > Sleeping Car.....New York to Columbus (PS106) > Sleeping Car.....Washington to St. Louis-Houston (PS106) (To Mo. Pac. No. > 21). Harrisburg: Move from 575. > > Both the 10-6 and the 14-4 are appropriate, though it looks like they were > all in MP livery. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] Keystone Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 06:47:31 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6978263924bc73a637525edb09303cd8 Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things slowly out here in the West. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d7493331bddc4cc0e27b52352d4a8c7b On 12/2/99 9:47 AM, endeimling@mindspring.com (endeimling@mindspring.com) wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. About 3-4 weeks, I'd imagine. At the last meeting of the Northern Central Chapter, we discussed that the Spring issue comes out in late March/early April. I suggested that this was "too late" for providing convention materials (convention is early May). That would make the Winter issue late December/early January. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Keystone Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:05:45 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 880454a99cbbb6959195b9df49747d18 I have not seen it yet myself. Also, have any of you guys recieved your PRRT&HS membership renewal notices yet? In the past, they usually were mailed in November. Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: endeimling@mindspring.com [mailto:endeimling@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:48 AM To: PRR Talk Subject: [PRR] Keystone Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things slowly out here in the West. Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 10:19:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 501736780b1327596ef1db874afb90ac On 12/2/99 10:05 AM, Andrews, Ted (Ted.Andrews@Woolpert.com) wrote: > I have not seen it yet myself. > > Also, have any of you guys recieved your PRRT&HS membership renewal notices > yet? In the past, they usually were mailed in November. I'd bet they'll be in the Winter "Keystone", to save mailing costs. I think I read somewhere in the by-laws that members have until March to renew to maintain "membership in good standing". --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 15:05:00 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 231576cf67a71d9492fdd951891e2ffa As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for release next spring. These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in PRR livery. Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying to remove lettering and patch paint to match. The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start from scratch? I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? (This is theoretical, not an order!) Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all available roadnames... http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:17:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 78e04ca4377204f0734ccf511ab31c0b In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought them for about $5 each at a show). 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up those stripes. <> h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:37:33 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8c5280b4ae5a29464129b66d33d546a The Branchine coach will be a single window NYC prototype for which Branchline indicates there were many very similar cars built for other railroads. N&W is one of the road names Branchline lists for this car but someone else will have to determine how accurate a model it will make. Car will have 22 windows per side including the washroom window. Frank Brua Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> > > I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will > be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some > AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though > that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought > them for about $5 each at a show). > > 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since > I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up > those stripes. > > < PRR livery.>> > > h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of > which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:34:40 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dcbe0f998b8efd726b9c72375af25121 In a message dated 12/01/1999 10:49:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > Jerry: Checking the 1953 ORER, there is no junction of the NP and PRR at Oakland, PA. The only junction in PA is Erie and Thornton Jct. However, there is a junction at Oakland ILL. Perhaps this is the reason for no response. If Tony is modeling the same general area as he did with the AM, he may have bad information about the junction. The only Oakland, PA I know about is part of Pittsburgh and there is no crossing or junction of the PRR and NKP at that locality. Rich Orr Rich Orr. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:40:47 -0500 Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e8d99f0ea52ae9db72b5773ab670642a In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info out there! Branchline has announced three car names: Centhill Centfaun Centwood Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. All I needed were additional valid car names. Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: 8600 Bartram Oak 8602 Black Oak 8604 Centhill 8606 Council Oaks 8608 Willow Oak renamed Richard Beatty Mellon renamed George Westinghouse renamed Wadsworth Oak That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else it is a "this is all I could find" deal. I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into 1954. BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:51:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c549c20ce879b8af38dfa309fe5f7da3 Gary: Taxing my memory. As I recall, the difference between the two versions of the 1992 Key J-1 was the frame. Each version represented the two different frames used on the J-1. Some of the J-1 had bar frames while others had cast steel frames. (Note all J-1a had cast frames.) At the time I inquired about the versions but did not purchase either as I had the earlier version in my collection and was more interested in a J-1a. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:58:47 -0500 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 14aa44c1a960f180dbcf304ba08be3c6 It usually arrives in Ohio in mid-December over the past ten years or so. I believe it once came in early January, but that was an exception. endeimling@mindspring.com wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Johnson" Subject: [PRR] CT1000 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:26:58 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ac9ab1b9679948b0b43e4e6bb11b22c2 I have a 1946 PRR CT1000W for the Western Lines that I would like to trade to someone for one covering the Pittsburgh area, specifically the Monongahela secondary. Regards, Greg Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:58:36 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, PA. & PRR -- 2nd request X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6ea7152d2f030f4c579925329cd88049 Are you sure it's not Oakland , Il? It may be a coincidence but a PRR-NKP crossing was also at Oakland ,Illinois. The PRR Peoria branch and the NKP St.Louis Line crossed there. The whole thing can be done on a sheet of plywood, it's that flat. Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > Still seeking info on this... > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > I'm amazed that out of 363 subscribers there have been no responses! > > Can anyone at least clue me in to what division or branch this might have > been? > > I suspect it might be located in northwest Pa. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:08:43 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 63410c277c5f0b754362d96fff1726ee Jerry, I'm probably an anomaly in that I need mostly coaches (thank heavens for Eastern Car Works); for myself, I'd probably take a decorated sleeper or two (I'm always in favor of quality passenger cars, even if they're not 100% appropriate for my NYLB). However, I can see a market for the lettered, but not named or numbered cars. My grandfather would love to have some specifically named Pullmans. I can blend the decals well enough for my purposes; I can live with a small difference in sheen to get a car or two for my grandfather. Doug Jerry Britton wrote: > As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working > on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for > release next spring. > > These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars > that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". > > The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and > 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in > PRR livery. > > Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks > (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility > of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number > or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I > consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying > to remove lettering and patch paint to match. > > The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the > appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with > dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. > > I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with > no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start > from scratch? > > I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? > (This is theoretical, not an order!) > > Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise > Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively > through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least > six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! > (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) > > If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all > available roadnames... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:10:32 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5f736643420bebf915340a86500bca40 Hello list, I'm with Bob on this one. I'd really like the cars to come with stripes already applied. I use Champ's stripes for my cars, and they go on well, but if I could save a step or two, I'd be quite content. I'm sure that Branchline's alignment would be better than mine! Doug Bobspf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/99 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? >> > > I'm interested in both, but not more than three each. And some of mine will > be in Pullman Green (the Southland). I will shortly be trying to rename some > AHM Rapids cars so I'll let you know how the new lettering blends in, though > that will be on ancient, badly lettered cars in the first place (just bought > them for about $5 each at a show). > > 'Nuther question. Stripes or no-stripes? I would vote for the former, since > I could always do an undec to get the no-stripe version, and I hate lining up > those stripes. > > < PRR livery.>> > > h-m-m. I wonder if this will be a single-window coach similar to the N&W of > which Pennsy bought one or more (he mused). > > Bob Zoeller > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:12:10 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7535084758a4d6348cb8ef9ce48958ff Gene, I thought it was just me, but the Keystone has arrived slowly here in West Texas as well. Doug endeimling@mindspring.com wrote: > Does any know when the next Keystone is due out? We tend to get things > slowly out here in the West. > Gene Deimling > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:10:49 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Could it be Oakland IL? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f929b3bfd8fae41f0e3d0472890a0ee4 You guys need an update, the Oakland depot is still around but moved north off the railroad property, it's near a drive-in bank, I think just off from the original location. The Block Limit signal is on display with the depot. The depot sits on the north side of the state highway and about a quarter mile west of the crossing. The railroad that took over the NKP from Metcalfe, Il. to Charleston, Il. is called the Eastern Illinois Railroad , owned by Illinois Cereal Mills. Steve Long RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/99 3:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: > > << Many of you know of Tony Koester and his infamous Allegheny Midland > layout...which has been featured in MR and video many times. You may not be > aware, but Tony has dismantled the AM and is preparing a new layout based on > the NKP. > > He poses this question to the group: > > > As an SPF, do you know of a source for information about > > the NKP-PRR crossing at Oakland, Pa.? I need photos of > > the junction area and details of what apparently was a > > separate (as opposed to joint) PRR depot there. I visited > > there recently and have the NKP track diagram, but I > > haven't a clue as to the depot's appearance and so on. > > Please forward responses to me and I'll forward to him. Thanks. > >> > Jerry, > I wonder if the answers would be somewhat different if the query was for > Oakland IL? I ask this because I know > 1. Tony's hometown is Cayuga IN, almost on the Illinois line and close to the > Wabash River. > 2. Tony is designing a model of the Nickel Plate's Clover Leaf Third > District, starting at Frankfort IN and going west/southwest toward St Louis. > I believe the projected west end of the layout is the division point at > Charleston IL, not far southwest of Oakland IL. > 3. The Clover Leaf intersects PRR's Peoria Branch at Oakland, IL, 38.5 miles > out from Terre Haute IN, and an interlocking plus block-limit station for the > Pennsy (ref 1946 St. Louis Division timetable #7). In 1946, the Oakland > "Block-Limit Station" is shown as being controlled by "open block station" > Vigo (located in Terre Haute) > 4. The 1968 PRR Southwest Division track chart shows a connecting > (interchange?) track in the northwest quadrant at Oakland, with the main and > this interchange track crossed by Teeter Street and by Hazel Street. It > locates a telephone booth at the north (NKP) end of this connecting track, > but is otherwise uninformative about the location of either the PRR or NKP > station. > 5. Somewhere, I think I've seen a photo of PRR Oakland station. But I > haven't remembered where yet -- other SPF's help me out...... > > Til the next train out, > Rick Tipton - Louisville KY > Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) > Operating the Panhandle Route > And Remembering PRR Lines West > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:12:47 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7867e49bdf435590512215895e9e9b08 Let me look, I think I have the signal prints for the NKP at Oakland, Il. Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > On 12/1/99 12:40 PM, Bob (wahsatch@vaix.net) wrote: > > > Checking my 10/38 & 1/46 ORER's, the only interchange between the PRR > > & NKP is in Oakland, ILL, not PA. Also, my 3/69 Official Guide has a > > station for the PC and N&W at Oakland, Coles County, ILL. > > There are 2 junctions between the PRR & NKP in PA & are at Erie & > > Thornton Jct according to the ORER's. Thornton Jct is 78.0 miles from > > New Castle on the Erie & Ashtabula Div, (p352 5/1/45 PRR CT1000C) > > Tony updates his request: > > > Egads! I typed "Pa." > > > > My sincere apologies, Jerry. The town is Oakland, ILLINOIS, > > where the PRR crossed the NKP's St. Louis line. > > So, anyone have photos or other info on the PRR at Oakland, IL? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:40:14 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Cary 13-156 air tanks for Bowser I1sa X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bcef4333cc547abe7d9c57d4679f79c6 Hello list, This is yet another installment in my ongoing I1sa saga. I decided to install Cary's 13-156 lost wax brass air tanks on my Bowser I1sa. They're a bit tricky to install; what follows is how I did this. By all means, if there's a better way, I'm all ears. The basic problem for me was finding a way to attach the pilots, air tanks, and front coupler in a durable manner, without resorting to violence. The frame surface and the pilot surface are at slightly different levels, which made it challenging to mount the air tanks level. I drilled holes in the front of each air tank for the air pipe; I used drill bit size 61. I had sawed off the brass sprue from the rear of each tank and filed it smooth. Next, I figured out that the rear mounting pin of each tank should be at the corner where the frame goes from full length and narrows down for the pilot casting. I drilled a number 50 hole at each corner. Next, I cut off the front mounting pin on each tank and filed things smooth. I plugged the forward screw hole in the frame with a length of Evergreen's styrene tubing. Next, I drilled and tapped for an 0-80 screw so I could secure my front coupler (a Kadee 5). Then, I used goo to secure the pilot to the frame. Now, for the air tanks. I added several strips of .020 styrene to make a level mounting pad for the air tanks. I used goo to secure the tank's remaining rear pins to the forward portion of the main frame, and super glue to secure the front of the tanks to the built up pilot. My final step was to use goo to mount the platform on top of the tanks and super glue to secure the air pipe to the tanks. The new tanks look nice, but they are certainly more challenging to install than the Bowser casting supplied in the kit. I am somewhat glad that I only want one I1sa. At the same time, they are not impossible! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:32:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ec1bddb3f2be8ef2a225ea916badf77b In a message dated 12/02/1999 2:12:05 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start from scratch? >> How about a painted version with decals for 7-10 names, nombers? I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? 2-3 And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? 3-4 (This is theoretical, not an order!) << Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) >> I think painted cars with decals would give you the solution for your needs .I would like to see the decals included even if the car costs a couple of buck more. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:43:58 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 73a7e3dfd479526047e07872d713308a Hello Jerry and List! Check out PENNSY JOURNAL VOL.I No. 2,pg 57. Lists 19 8-1-2 Hwt by name, no numbers.Also lists the rest of the Hwts. along with the Ltwts cars. Does this help? Pat McKinney PRRT&HS 1524 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:44:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bb6afa9b623262980be867d5c784353d In a message dated 12/2/1999 5:37:19 PM Central Standard Time, parkvarieties@provide.net writes: << The Branchine coach will be a single window NYC prototype for which Branchline indicates there were many very similar cars built for other railroads. >> Yeah, the non-SPFs out there deserve something a little closer to their home road favorite than a (n inaccurate) P70 in their colors. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:52:03 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a8ad7679779a5d3459ec51d902922775 All three of those car names (Centfaun, Centhill and Centwood) were cars owned by Pennsy. Other PRR 8-1-2's (Plan 3979A) were Bartram Oak, Council Oak, Fox Oaks, Pelham Oak (Andrew W. Mellon and Arthur Brisbane), Royal Oak, Salem Oak, Wadsworth Oak, Treaty Oak, Bear Oak, Black Oak, Gray Oak, Spanish Oak, Water Oak, White Oak, Willow Oak(Richard Beatty Mellon, George Westinghouse and Wadsworth Oak) and Yellow Oak. By my count that's 19 cars. All but the first three were built by Pullman for Pennsy. The first Wadsworth Oak was withdrawn from lease to Pullman in April 1956. All of the others except Fox Oaks made it into the 1960's. Fox Oaks was withdrawn from lease in November 1959. Jerry Britton wrote: > > In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was > investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info > out there! > > Branchline has announced three car names: > Centhill > Centfaun > Centwood > > Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of > that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified > between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. > > My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately > market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. > All I needed were additional valid car names. > > Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it > is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all > time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a > few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: > 8600 Bartram Oak > 8602 Black Oak > 8604 Centhill > 8606 Council Oaks > 8608 Willow Oak > renamed Richard Beatty Mellon > renamed George Westinghouse > renamed Wadsworth Oak > > That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! > > Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is > doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR > Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! > > I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else > it is a "this is all I could find" deal. > > I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can > help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into > 1954. > > BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment > Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was > sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:52:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b5025d70953b308fe3d83c3750a2f6be In a message dated 12/2/1999 6:50:46 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info out there! >> Good ol' Bob Reid's Pennsy Journal lists: Arthur Brisbane Bartram Oak Bear Oak Black Oak Centfaun Centhill Centwood Council Oak* Fox Oaks Gray Oak* George Westhinghouse (now there's a good one!) Royal Oak (nothing like a British battleship sunk in WWII at Scapa Flow by a U-boat) Salem Oak Spanish Oak Treaty Oak (another famous name) Wadsworth Oak Water Oak* White Oak* Yellow Oak* * cars renovated and received streamlining to exteriors Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:55:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR J1 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0a4e9fb9ddd7d764ed55c1732a8b535c Rich, Thanks for the note. I have been in touch with several other PRR-Talk members and found this additional info. The 2 J's released in 1985 were as follows. J1 #6169 and J1a #6475, the 1992 runs were J1 #6464 and J1a #6489. It seems Key Imports changed a little bit of detailing on the 2 versions in each of the releases. In 1992 the J1#6464 had short sand lines, Notch Nose, No antenna and I believe the cast bar frame. The #6489 had short sand lines, No Notch nose, Tender antenna, and most likely the fabricated Loco frame. Both 1992 run tenders had straight upright coal boards. I am unsure of the details of the 1985 runs but I believe they are similar to the 1992 runs except that they had the long outside sand lines and angled tender coal boards. The painted versions had less oxide red on the tenders also. There could be more differences but I need to have all 4 locos side by side to compare. That is to expsenssive for me to do. I will have to do more research....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: M-497 gas turbine powered RDC Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:03:38 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 89a5af3d80bc9b1eed6253234f0383e9 Subject: M-497 gas turbine powered RDC From: "Craig Berndt" Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:32:44 -0500 Chris and list, I was with the PRR at the time, in charge of the Metroliner Training Program, and know Bob Watson very well. Bob's assessment of the NYC stunt with the M-497 in my opinion is most accurate. The Metroliners went on to perform a useful service to the traveling public. What did the M-497 go on to do, other than puff up Perlman's and NYC corporate ego? Perhaps the jet engine that was used to propel the car ended up as a snow blower. Regarding the Metroliner Training Program - we had 40 instructors from all of the operating crafts except MW. It was our mission to train all operating employees how to operate and maintain this new equipment. I intend to write an article for the Keystone about it, hopefully next year (2000). Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 22:25:29 EST Subject: [PRR] (no subject) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6d54bbbfb647521947e6c87f4ef4eb58 Hey Yuze Gize, A good friend of mine, Mark Kerlick, got this email message today and forwarded it to me. From what I understand Doyle plans to do the work at the Willamette and Pacific shops in Albany, OR, 28 miles south of Salem, OR. The trucks have been stored there for quite some time as is the prime mover. Todd and I have been by there a couple of times when he has made it out this way. Many don't know this but Doyle has an F-7 tucked away in the Brooklyn (ex-SP Portland) round house too as well as an RSD-5 in Nickel Plate paint. This will be a neat project to follow. Not from what I was told by the Road Forman of Engines (shop boss) both units will be re-powered and fully restored... I will get pictures. If someone comes across the car numbers let me know and I will trace them. Greg < Subject: [PRR] PRR Pullman 10-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2743b1b4cc0076502050887ffc59d5e3 Now for the 10-1-2's. Plan 2585 - Lemay, Lenape. Plan 2585A - Wiseburn. Plan 2585D - Marlowe, Robeson, Macatawa, Fort Ward, Cape Sable, Cedar Lane, Cedar Ledge, Cedar Springs, Long Cliff, Mount Union (wrecked before 1948), Newton Falls, North Grove, North Judson and North Vineland. Plan 3585 - Lake Arthur, Lake Charm, Lake Felicity, Lake Merritt, Lake Maitland, Lake Bennett, Lake Auburn, Lake Girard, Lake Mitchell, Lake Stearns and Lake Laura. Plan 3585A - Lake Constance and lake Tapps. I not sure how significant the different plan designations are. Plan 2585 cars were built between 1911 and 1923. Plan 3585 cars were built between 1923 and 1926. John Ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:29:50 -0500 From: "David \\"Fresh\\" Freshwater" Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3936a3ac497d48e0d5b767745567bd2a Pages 92-93 of the PRRT&HS book “Penssylvania Railroad Passenger Car Painting and Lettering” discusses the “Texas Eagle” trains run by PRR, MP and the T&P. According to the book, PRR started its contribution to the train with eleven pre-war 10-5 sleepers in the CASCADE series. The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, and date repainted into PRR tuscan are: Cascade Bower 9/48 5/51 Cascade Cliff 10/48 2/51 Cascade Cove 9/48 9/50 Cascade Crag 8/48 11/50 Cascade Hollow 10/48 3/51 Cascade Mantle 7/48 12/50 Cascade Melody 7/48 5/51 Cascade Peak 8/48 12/50 Cascade Pinnacle 9/48 1/51 Cascade Pool 10/48 10/50 Cascade Slope 8/48 12/50 In 1950, ACF delivered eleven PRR EAGLE-series 10-6 cars. These replaced the CASCADES and covered the service until the end. They were repainted and renamed into the RAPIDS series between 10-62 and 6-65. The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, date repainted into PRR tuscan and new name are: Eagle Beam 8/50 2/65 Ligonier Rapids Eagle Bluff 8/50 10/62 Loyalhanna Rapids Eagle Charm 8/50 2/65 Perkiomen Rapids Eagle Chief 8/50 1/64 Park Rapids Eagle Cove 8/50 4/64 Loyalsock Rapids Eagle Eye 8/50 6/64 Dayton Rapids Eagle Grand 9/50 12/64 Wissahickon Rapids Eagle Head 9/50 3/63 Delaware Rapids Eagle Oak 9/50 4/64 Brandywine Rapids Eagle Park 9/50 7/65 Huntingdon Rapids Eagle Pass 9/50 8/64 Lycoming Rapids According to the description of who contributed what equipment, it appears that all the 14-4 EAGLE cars covering this train were contributed to the pool by MoPac. It doesn’t appear that T&P contributed any cars. Looks to me like the 10-6s are OK for PRR, but you’d have to do more research on whether there were 14-4s of the same plan elsewhere on PRR. Dave Freshwater N Scale SPF PRRT&HS 5630 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:43:45 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cc977627cd276d56e1e56e1545009a49 Jerry's request for Pullman info is timely. In the January 2000 Model Railroader, editor Andy Sperandeo in his At the Throttle column is seeking reader feedback concerning desired passenger car models. He makes the obvious point that there is no one doing for passenger cars what Red Caboose, Intermountain, P2K, and Kadee have done to upgrade the quality of freight car models. He does mention that there are manufacturers (yes, plural) making plans to get in the passenger car business, but progress is slow. Input can be made to passenger@mrmag.com in the following format: 1. Railroad 2. Era: prewar, 40's, 50's, 60's, etc. 3. Lightweight, heavyweight or both 4. Favorite name train Any additional comments can be made at the end. As SPF modelers several have already responded to Jerry's request. We should all respond to Sperandeo--MR has a LOT of impact in the hobby. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:47:10 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ac7050e24ab2746cbe4c90e524bb0679 Jerry--I would use three 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 Pullman sleepers. My first choice would be painted with stripes but no names, second choice undec. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 21:50:59 -0800 From: Chuck Friedlein Subject: Re: [PRR] N Scale Texas Eagle Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f47bda445c84c1251d74b7be6e91e2cd Dave and the list, The car names in the RAPIDS series are the names assigned to the cars when the were repainted back to PRR tuscan. When they were in MP colors, they had names in the EAGLE series. These are listed in the PRR Passenger Car Painting and Lettering book that Dave mentioned--matched to the corresponding RAPIDS name, w/repaint dates, etc. Chuck Friedlein Chuck Friedlein David \"Fresh\" Freshwater wrote: > Pages 92-93 of the PRRT&HS book “Penssylvania Railroad Passenger Car > Painting and Lettering” discusses the “Texas Eagle” trains run by PRR, > MP and the T&P. > > According to the book, PRR started its contribution to the train with > eleven pre-war 10-5 sleepers in the CASCADE series. The pool cars, > dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, and date repainted into PRR > tuscan are: > > Cascade Bower 9/48 5/51 > Cascade Cliff 10/48 2/51 > Cascade Cove 9/48 9/50 > Cascade Crag 8/48 11/50 > Cascade Hollow 10/48 3/51 > Cascade Mantle 7/48 12/50 > Cascade Melody 7/48 5/51 > Cascade Peak 8/48 12/50 > Cascade Pinnacle 9/48 1/51 > Cascade Pool 10/48 10/50 > Cascade Slope 8/48 12/50 > > In 1950, ACF delivered eleven PRR EAGLE-series 10-6 cars. These > replaced the CASCADES and covered the service until the end. They were > repainted and renamed into the RAPIDS series between 10-62 and 6-65. > The pool cars, dates painted into the Texas Eagle scheme, date repainted > into PRR tuscan and new name are: > > Eagle Beam 8/50 2/65 Ligonier Rapids > Eagle Bluff 8/50 10/62 Loyalhanna Rapids > Eagle Charm 8/50 2/65 Perkiomen Rapids > Eagle Chief 8/50 1/64 Park Rapids > Eagle Cove 8/50 4/64 Loyalsock Rapids > Eagle Eye 8/50 6/64 Dayton Rapids > Eagle Grand 9/50 12/64 Wissahickon Rapids > Eagle Head 9/50 3/63 Delaware Rapids > Eagle Oak 9/50 4/64 Brandywine Rapids > Eagle Park 9/50 7/65 Huntingdon Rapids > Eagle Pass 9/50 8/64 Lycoming Rapids > > According to the description of who contributed what equipment, it > appears that all the 14-4 EAGLE cars covering this train were > contributed to the pool by MoPac. It doesn’t appear that T&P > contributed any cars. > > Looks to me like the 10-6s are OK for PRR, but you’d have to do more > research on whether there were 14-4s of the same plan elsewhere on PRR. > > Dave Freshwater > N Scale SPF > PRRT&HS 5630 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:58:25 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3171fb19d792e687f1b98eb81fbbe05f Here, here! 28-1 parlors!! :-)) How about 8-5's? Jerry, I like the idea of the unnamed cars. Perhaps BL could supply the decals or dry transfers with the kit to ease the color matching problem. Eventually I would probably want 2 of each 10 sec and 8 sec. So, is now the time to start unloading my old Walthers' cars on the unsuspecting ebay public? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > As many of you know, and others will now learn, Branchline Trains is working > on a series of highly detailed Pullman heavyweight cars in plastic, for > release next spring. > > These cars will be similar in quality to the phenomenal AAR 50' box cars > that just came out...known as the "Blueprint Series". > > The heavyweight line will initially consist of 8-1-2 sleepers, a coach, and > 10-1-2 sleepers. The coach is not a PRR prototype and thus is not offered in > PRR livery. > > Each of the sleepers will be available in three car names. I am in talks > (err, e-mails) with the product managers at Branchline about the possibility > of adding an additional unit of each: painted, lettered, but no car number > or name. The owner could then apply their own decals to finish the model. I > consider this a much better option than repainting the whole car or trying > to remove lettering and patch paint to match. > > The Branchline folks are worried that it is too difficult to match the > appearance of pad printing with an applied decal. My thought is that, with > dullcoat or weathering, the effect of a decal will be minimal. > > I ask those of you who might want these cars: Would you want an a car with > no number or name, or would you rather take an undecorated car and start > from scratch? > > I also ask, who is interested in the 8-1-2, and how many? > And who is interested in the 10-1-2, and how many? > (This is theoretical, not an order!) > > Another option, if the run is small enough, would be for "Merchandise > Service" to finance the run of additional car names, available exclusively > through MS. I want to avoid this if possible, but I'd like to see at least > six total names available. Heck, I need at least 7 of the 8-2-1's myself! > (Not to mention a bunch of 14 sections, 6-6's, and 28-1 parlors!) > > If anyone is interested, I am accepting Advance Reservations for all > available roadnames... > > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:08:08 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Pullman 8-1-2 Roster X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4204838faa380ba7d6eb74329f7b4434 Jerry, I know I have seen a much larger list in one of the Wayner publications. My Walthers 8-2-1 is named "Royal Oak". If I remember, I will check this weekend. However it will be a busy weekend. The Tech Model RR Club at MIT is having its Christmas Open House on Saturday. Spectacular urban scenery is happening. All are invited. Its free. We don't need money, were just showing off :-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Jerry Britton wrote: > > In following up on my conversations with Branchline Trains, I was > investigating the roster of PRR 8-1-2 Pullmans. Guess what? Not much info > out there! > > Branchline has announced three car names: > Centhill > Centfaun > Centwood > > Now, for my own modeling, I did the study "24 Hours at Harrisburg". As of > that date in 1954, there were no less than 16 of these 8-1-2 cars specified > between the PRR's "Makeup of Trains" document and the Form 1 PT's. > > My next step was to looking into having "Merchandise Service" privately > market an additional few names through Branchline's custom printing service. > All I needed were additional valid car names. > > Some time ago, Gary Spear e-mailed me a roster of PRR Pullmans. I believe it > is web accessible at the PRRT&HS site as well. It obviously is not an "all > time" list, as it fails to mention two of the above cars and only names a > few others. The entire 8-1-2 roster from his list is: > 8600 Bartram Oak > 8602 Black Oak > 8604 Centhill > 8606 Council Oaks > 8608 Willow Oak > renamed Richard Beatty Mellon > renamed George Westinghouse > renamed Wadsworth Oak > > That's only five cars! Surely there were more than this! > > Plus, Gary's roster lists no instances of the 10-1-2 that Branchline is > doing. I found one -- 8699 El Monte (renamed Villa Royal) -- in the "PRR > Color Guide V. II". Surely there was more than this one! > > I suspect that Gary's roster was an "as of this date" type of thing. Or else > it is a "this is all I could find" deal. > > I am specifically looking for more roster info on the 8-1-2, if anyone can > help. Most helpful would be the car names and numbers that made it into > 1954. > > BTW: I recently purchased on eBay an ORIGINAL 1954 PRR Passenger Equipment > Register. The handwritten notes are priceless...showing when equipment was > sold off, converted, etc. Eventually it will get online! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kollar, Kris" Subject: [PRR] K4 pictures needed Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:39:50 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dec1e51b954a9089e1b9d2506c9a187d Greetings everyone, I'm working on modifying the running board of my K4 so I can add the mechanical lubricator details and I need help finding photos which will show off this detail. The several PRR steam books I have don't have real clear pictures of fireman's side. They either show 3/4 views, head-on or shots of the engineer's side. Could anyone refer me to photos on the internet that show closeups of the fireman's side steam chests or an overall broad side shot of the left side of the engine. Any help would be much appreciated. Also for those of you in the know, am I correct in stating that there was not a mech. lubricator attached to the engineer's side steam chest. Photos do not show this. Am I right???? thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Jet powered RDC Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:54:18 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a99a22fa62c830d9d0bca3f9d168b6c3 I see an Athearn RDC, specially retrofitted with twin "C" Estes rocket engines.... Hey! It's a new product idea!! Now I know what our next product will be! Yahoo! Then again, you'd need a big layout.....:-( Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 09:52:32 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 59cdaae55ae48a61716f6326f0f7377f I could use 1 or 2 of the 8-2-1's. If you determine the names/numbers of the cars passing through Harrisburg on the 580/581 from/to Erie, let me know! Also, names & numbers on decals seems best. -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] M-497 RDC Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:00:55 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b786f0f2744da523f859b30b93b4283 Al wrote: >The Metroliners went on to perform a useful >service to the traveling public. What did the M-497 go on to do, other than >puff up Perlman's and NYC corporate ego? I'm with you on this one, Al. Although I always found this incident fascinating, it was definitely on the humorous side; i.e. Big Boys playing with Big Toys. Not a feasible method of public transportation. I can't imagine why the Pennsy people would have been upset about it though. I would have been inclined to just roll my eyes and say "Whatever!". It's not like it represented any actual usable technology or anything. Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:01:46 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] M-497 RDC X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 81a54faf030e0d929dd1f42a6de3a282 On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Miracle Castings Inc. wrote: > Al wrote: > > >The Metroliners went on to perform a useful > >service to the traveling public. What did the M-497 go on to do, other than > >puff up Perlman's and NYC corporate ego? > > I'm with you on this one, Al. Although I always found this incident > fascinating, it was definitely on the humorous side; i.e. Big Boys playing > with Big Toys. Not a feasible method of public transportation. I can't > imagine why the Pennsy people would have been upset about it though. I > would have been inclined to just roll my eyes and say "Whatever!". It's not > like it represented any actual usable technology or anything. Uh, Norfolk Southern could use it. Think about it: it disrupts rail traffic on a line for hours. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Web Ring of interest Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:36:15 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: af040bbc11e125693b117bbf3893049b Hi All! I just found this web ring related to the PRR: http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=prr&list Those of you with Pennsy sites may want to Join it! Miracle Castings Site will be added to it. Regards, Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:41:45 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Web Ring of interest From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 40afe8816b5a59b0d13fd3ef945c94f9 On 12/3/99 10:36 AM, Miracle Castings Inc. (miracle-castings@on.aibn.com) wrote: > Hi All! I just found this web ring related to the PRR: > > http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=prr&list > > Those of you with Pennsy sites may want to Join it! Miracle Castings Site > will be added to it. Yes, someone else tipped me off to it yesterday. Obviously just started. This morning I added Keystone Crossings, PENNSYRR.COM, and Merchandise Service. Once I know they are all working, I'll add the Cyber Division, Northern Central Chapter, and Pittsburgh Chapter of the PRRT&HS. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:50:33 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dc8659cdde90846e2a89afaa41d2e2fe Jerry, I could use three 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 Pullman sleepers. Preference is painted with stripes and names, second choice is painted with stripes but no names. Bill Laird Canyon Lake, Texas In the heart of the Texas hill country - home of the "Hill Country Flyer" (Austin steam tourist railroad) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] X-29 Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:43:53 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 900e8f278dd0683b8a54a6ef07469208 Is there an X-29 expert in the house? I am hoping that someone knows if the Merchandise Service scheme MS-2 ( plain white with car color showing though) was on the standard X-29 with dreadnaught ends. All of the photos that I have seen have the flat end. I am also looking for drawings of the steam, train pipe, and signal lines for the standard X-29 for an S scale brass project. I will buy or trade for the drawings. They are needed a.s.a.p. Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: [PRR] Web ring Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:04:47 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1d02187b0b9959154ed37af25e066876 Hi again! I guess there was a problem with the web page I posted for this web ring. Try this link instead: http://www.cooltrains.com/webring/index.html Regards, Pat ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:18:41 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Assignments of Pullman 8-1-2's on 9/28/54 thru Harrisburg From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 55f17b7238e62ab91720586af824690a Culled from my "24 Hours at Harrisburg" study, the following are assignments of Pullman 8-1-2 heavyweights passing through Harrisburg on Sept. 28, 1954: 1:15am.....35 arr from New York Pittsburgh Night Express / The Statesman Sleeping Car.....Philadelphia to Pittsburgh (8 section, 2 compartment, 1 drawing room) 1:25am.....535 arr from Washington (terminates in Harrisburg) Sleeping Car.....Washington to Chicago (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move to 55. 2:50am.....55 arr from New York Gotham Limited *** Sleeping Car.....Washington to Chicago (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 535. 4:20am.....36 arr from Pittsburgh The Philadelphia Night Express / The Statesman Sleeping Car.....Pittsburgh to Philadelphia (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) 4:30am.....38/38-36 arr from Pittsburgh and points west The Clevelander / The Akronite Sleeping Car.....Cleveland to Washington (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move to 536. 4:40am.....536 dep to Washington (originates in Harrisburg) *** Sleeping Car.....Cleveland to Washington (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 38. 5:55am.....574 arr from Williamsport and points north Dominion Express / Southern Express Sleeping Car.....Buffalo to New York (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move to 20. Sleeping Car.....Erie to New York (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (From No. 580 at Emporium). Harrisburg: Move to 20. 6:08am.....20 arr from Indianapolis Indianapolis Limited *** Sleeping Car.....Erie to New York (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (From No. 580 at Emporium). Harrisburg: Move from 574. *** Sleeping Car.....Buffalo to New York (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 574. 2:09pm.....54 arr from Chicago Gotham Limited Sleeping Car.....Chicago to Washington (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move to 554. 2:19pm.....554 dep to Washington (originates at Harrisburg) *** Sleeping Car.....Chicago to Washington (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 54. 10:05pm.....575 arr from Washington Dominion Express / Northern Express Sleeping Car.....New York to Erie (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 1. Sleeping Car.....Washington to Cleveland (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move to 39. Sleeping Car.....Washington to Hudson (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (En route to Cleveland in No. 39). Harrisburg: Move to 39. Sleeping Car.....Philadelphia to Buffalo (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (From No. 615 at Harrisburg). Harrisburg: Move from 615. 10:12pm.....1 arr from New York Pennsylvania Limited *** Sleeping Car.....New York to Erie (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) "Yellow Oak" OR "Spanish Oak" Harrisburg: Move to 575. 10:25pm.....615 arr from Philadelphia (terminates in Harrisburg) *** Sleeping Car.....Philadelphia to Buffalo (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (From No. 615 at Harrisburg). Harrisburg: Move to 575. 11:23pm.....39/39-339 arr from New York The Clevelander / The Akronite *** Sleeping Car.....Washington to Cleveland (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) Harrisburg: Move from 575. *** Sleeping Car.....Washington to Hudson (8 sections, 2 compartments, drawing room) (En route to Cleveland in No. 39). Harrisburg: Move from 575. *** = Car already mentioned. Being transferred from train previously listed. In summary, over a 24 hour period, 11 Pullman 8-1-2's are assigned to services passing through Harrisburg. Only "Yellow Oak" and "Spanish Oak" are listed by name. A Maryland Division "Makeup of Trains" document would provide the remaining names. There may be some additional cars, as I do not have full consist information for some of the north/south trains. Again, a Maryland Division "Makeup of Trains" document would provide this information. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:20:00 EST Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 574437a331461414a43fd4401e30cc18 For those SPF who don't already know, The "Hill Country Flyer" uses ex PRR coaches with the round port hole windows at the restrooms. They were very friendly and the excursion was very enjoyable. Dennis Sautters ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 12:44:07 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d36e8d8f2e09efa8650590cccec2504b Those would be P70FBRs. The other distinguishing feature would be that they ride on "Commonwealth" trucks rather than the original "Pennsy Roller Bearing" trucks. HO kits are available from ECW Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Prr1187@aol.com wrote: > > For those SPF who don't already know, > The "Hill Country Flyer" uses > ex PRR coaches with the round port hole > windows at the restrooms. > > They were very friendly and the > excursion was very enjoyable. > > Dennis Sautters > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:27:33 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 358b8cddd4f6a647289d1306ac959f12 I haven't seen this in any of the posts yet, so dare I ask "When are these due?" I realize these delivery dates are always subject to change, but what is Branchline saying is the delivery date? I am anxiously awaiting these, and will order at least two of each. Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 13:42:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 089e344beaddfd7500d5996b8326c3a3 On 12/3/99 1:27 PM, Andy Cich (ajc5150@net66.com) wrote: > I haven't seen this in any of the posts yet, so dare I ask "When are these > due?" > > I realize these delivery dates are always subject to change, but what is > Branchline saying is the delivery date? The 501 AAR box was significantly late. Branchline is hoping that this does not happen again. They are indicating a Spring 2000 delivery for the passenger cars. I don't know yet if this means all three varieties, or just the 8-1-2. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 18:13:23 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ef68db85419e8a0b6b34fd4a1e3e9875 I found part of the prints but far from complete, I have more stored somewhere else in the garage, in the group is Metcalfe, Il. also on the NKP , I have so much paper work it's like christmas when I find something I forgot I had. If all this went to a library you could forget ever seeing any of it again. Especially with the policies of Indiana Historical Society. I've misplaced the signal print to North Judson again. It's here, I just can't find it. On the prints what I have located is the distant signal, passing siding, and springfield road crossing all dated in 1951. I did find that this interlocking was automatic even in 1934, and also it looks like this timetable is the first application of "Unattended Block Stations" better known as Block Limit Stations. It goes in detail as how to handle the new form "K" clearance card. St. Louis Division Timetable No 20 In effect 12:01 AM Sunday, Sept. 30, 1934 Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > On 12/2/99 9:12 PM, Steve Long at (cil36@link2000.net) wrote: > > > Let me look, I think I have the signal prints for the NKP at Oakland, Il. > > Please do, let me know. Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 18:13:23 -0500 From: Steve Long Subject: Re: [PRR] Oakland, NKP & PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bc4192262cc3eda0927d8be79f50580b I found part of the prints but far from complete, I have more stored somewhere else in the garage, in the group is Metcalfe, Il. also on the NKP , I have so much paper work it's like christmas when I find something I forgot I had. If all this went to a library you could forget ever seeing any of it again. Especially with the policies of Indiana Historical Society. I've misplaced the signal print to North Judson again. It's here, I just can't find it. On the prints what I have located is the distant signal, passing siding, and springfield road crossing all dated in 1951. I did find that this interlocking was automatic even in 1934, and also it looks like this timetable is the first application of "Unattended Block Stations" better known as Block Limit Stations. It goes in detail as how to handle the new form "K" clearance card. St. Louis Division Timetable No 20 In effect 12:01 AM Sunday, Sept. 30, 1934 Steve Long Jerry Britton wrote: > On 12/2/99 9:12 PM, Steve Long at (cil36@link2000.net) wrote: > > > Let me look, I think I have the signal prints for the NKP at Oakland, Il. > > Please do, let me know. Thanks! > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS > > "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of > Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana > products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", > the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- > Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are > providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit > our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. > ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 20:25:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Steam Loco Drivers, X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2c3b42eabba4767ef75a55402e9dec7d List, I do not remember where I read this so maybe one of you guys can point me in the right direction or better yet answer these questions. On a Pennsy Steam locomotive which drivers, Engineer or Firemans side, are the ones that are quartered ahead of the other? It seems to me what I read is the Pennsy was the oppisite from all other roads. Second part of the question is would it make a difference and the third part of the question why did the Pennsy do it the oppisite way? Once I know these answers I am going to check my models. I bet you the models are wrong. Boy would that be a nit pick at PRR Model contest!!!.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 21:12:54 -0500 From: jpbtrans Subject: Re: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 83d2359a3dac4ac96d13916dd4be4b5d Jerry, I could use at least two of the 8-1-2s and two of the 10-1-2s. Prefer painted with stripes and names. Jon (Jpbtrans@gateway.net) Bill Laird wrote: > > Jerry, > > I could use three 8-1-2 and 10-1-2 Pullman sleepers. > Preference is painted with stripes and names, second choice is painted with > stripes but no names. > > Bill Laird > Canyon Lake, Texas > In the heart of the Texas hill country - home of the "Hill Country Flyer" > (Austin steam tourist railroad) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:09:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: M-497 gas turbine powered RDC X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 67ac5c2c43db3ea7d13464d011576fe0 In a message dated 99-12-02 22:22:45 EST, abbuchan@familyconnect.net writes: << What did the M-497 go on to do, other than puff up Perlman's and NYC corporate ego? >> I'm trying to visualize a fleet of M-497's speeding along between Toledo and Chicago. Forgive me for laughing!! Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bud Kaiser" Subject: RE: Fw: [PRR] Feedback Needed on New Heavyweight Pullman Cars Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:50:30 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 33191ce432b2a56440658ed7a95aca03 I heard at the hobby shop today that Walthers may be gearing up to produce heavyweight cars and that the recently released plastic Piker could be a forerunner to these cars. Anyone else hear anything about this? Bud Kaiser ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Berndt" Subject: [PRR] On site with M-497 RDC Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:17:00 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8e1196d0d8813644a7315015af6a1df3 Rich Copeland wrote: I'm trying to visualize a fleet of M-497's speeding along between Toledo and Chicago. Forgive me for laughing!! ______ Me: I still laugh. It was great. I lived in Butler, IN, at the time, and after taking a few photos east of Butler, IN, a friend and I drove east to Edgerton, OH, and waited for the RDC. There were men standing at the crossings along the way - I seem to recall that they were all connected to the phone lines that ran along the NYC double main. I think that their purpose was to ensure that crossings remained open since the sort-of-an-RDC was a little too fast for the lights if present, and probably a little faster than most people were used to when seeing trains at grade crossings. It blew through Edgerton at something awesome after having run about three miles already, and I remember being sand-blasted as it went by. We were within too few feet of the main line at the time. It then ran east through several other towns, including the city of Bryan, OH, with a population of about 6-8,000. I think it ran about 20-25 miles altogether, making four runs total in two days? Imagine an RDC skipping off the rails at 180 MPH in a city of 6,000. Craig Berndt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:49:56 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 pictures needed X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1b3c4a22610300e87dce954f1f95ccfd --Boundary_(ID_UTqmrPYZaZ+yMVvwFGfFSg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris and the list, I've added mechanical lubricators to several Bachmann and Bowser engines over the last four years or so. I use the plans in Staufer and Pennypacker's Many Faces of the Pennsy K4 for reference. The book can be questioned on its textual accuracy, but not on the superb plans (several centerfolds) drawn by Chesley. Mechanical lubricators on K4s pacifics were ALWAYS installed on the left side (ie fireman's side) near the cylinder. As far as internet photos, try Clint Black's Railroading in the Northeast web site (accessible through the NMRA directory of Worldwide Rail Sites, listed under photo galleries) for good K4s shots on the web. Kris, email me if you have further questions about the plans. Doug "Kollar, Kris" wrote: > Greetings everyone, > > I'm working on modifying the running board of my K4 so I can add the > mechanical lubricator details and I need help finding photos which will show > off this detail. The several PRR steam books I have don't have real clear > pictures of fireman's side. They either show 3/4 views, head-on or shots of > the engineer's side. Could anyone refer me to photos on the internet that > show closeups of the fireman's side steam chests or an overall broad side > shot of the left side of the engine. Any help would be much appreciated. > > Also for those of you in the know, am I correct in stating that there was > not a mech. lubricator attached to the engineer's side steam chest. Photos > do not show this. Am I right???? > > thanks! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". --Boundary_(ID_UTqmrPYZaZ+yMVvwFGfFSg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kris and the list,

I've added mechanical lubricators to several Bachmann and Bowser engines over the last four years or so.  I use the plans in Staufer and Pennypacker's Many Faces of the Pennsy K4 for reference.  The book can be questioned on its textual accuracy, but not on the superb plans (several centerfolds) drawn by Chesley.

Mechanical lubricators on K4s pacifics were ALWAYS installed on the left side (ie fireman's side) near the cylinder.  As far as internet photos, try Clint Black's Railroading in the Northeast web site (accessible through the NMRA directory of Worldwide Rail Sites, listed under photo galleries) for good K4s shots on the web. 

Kris, email me if you have further questions about the plans.

Doug

"Kollar, Kris" wrote:

Greetings everyone,

I'm working on modifying the running board of my K4 so I can add the
mechanical lubricator details and I need help finding photos which will show
off this detail.  The several PRR steam books I have don't have real clear
pictures of fireman's side.  They either show 3/4 views, head-on or shots of
the engineer's side.  Could anyone refer me to photos on the internet that
show closeups of the fireman's side steam chests or an overall broad side
shot of the left side of the engine.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Also for those of you in the know, am I correct in stating that there was
not a mech. lubricator attached to the engineer's side steam chest.  Photos
do not show this.  Am I right????

thanks!

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--Boundary_(ID_UTqmrPYZaZ+yMVvwFGfFSg)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:58:29 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Loco Drivers, X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1299cdeebff6f03ed7707866d0a8c33b Gary, I'll quote from Drury's Guide to North American Steam Locomotives (Kalmbach). "these 4-6-2s....had....the characteristic Pennsy left-hand lead....(303)" Now, how to tell the difference between right hand and left hand lead is another story. I'll leave that to abler minds (Chris Baer and Dan Cupper, please speak up!). Naturally, there was a right way, wrong way, and the PRR way. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I do not remember where I read this so maybe one of you guys can > point me in the right direction or better yet answer these questions. On > a Pennsy Steam locomotive which drivers, Engineer or Firemans side, are > the ones that are quartered ahead of the other? It seems to me what I > read is the Pennsy was the oppisite from all other roads. Second part of > the question is would it make a difference and the third part of the > question why did the Pennsy do it the oppisite way? Once I know these > answers I am going to check my models. I bet you the models are wrong. > Boy would that be a nit pick at PRR Model contest!!!.....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 00:16:25 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Cleaning brass models X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6ca166c38f8ee9cf2da3a855c9772b36 Hello list, I know we've been through this before, but I can't, for the life of me, find the posts in the archives. What do you list members recommend for removing tarnish from older brass models before painting? Unfortunately, I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner. I remember (perhaps wrongly) that Brasso was one possibility. Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:52:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Cleaning brass models X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: caf495bf32a0c10855fdaa50e4dbf98a Doug, For small "spotty" Tarnish on brass all I use is wet/dry sand paper and water. Just be careful of any rivits and other small details. For the overall dark appearence that some PFM locos recieve over the years I really do nothing with them except wash and air dry them. If you are talking about tarnish that you can actually feel you have no other choice to find sameone who has a hobby sand blaster. I don't think brasso and your fingers can get to all the nooks and crannies. I just sand blast only, I don't glass bead, and that paint sticks like it was welded on. I plan on in the future to invest in a sand blasting booth myself. I have been using the local hobby shops to this point. Once I have the pieces painted I bake them in the oven at about 400 degrees for 10-15 minutes or until golden brown. NO, way a minute, that is what I do with french frys. It is 180 degrees for 30-45 minutes or there abouts. Havn't melted one yet. Knock on wood!. Doug, about the suggestion you told someone last night about a source for K4 photos on the net. I liked your answer. Clint Black? The country singer? I do believe you mean Clint Chamberlin ....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:08:18 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: [PRR] NYC RDC (off subject) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f1d2bbc765479224a31554d1a2c4d356 Hi All... All of this talk about the NYC RDC car got me thinking about where it would have been better to run it. Can you imagine the thing running on the Delmarva lines. (Purdue would have a new way to kill chickens) Anyway that thing could have run on the old Sante Fe out west. Hmmm or perhaps a more modern version of the train from "Wild Wild West"... I've seen picture of the car. It looks like something Mel Brooks could have used for one of his movies. This is getting weird. LOL Til Later Hank Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 16:06:56 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: Re: [PRR] M-497 RDC X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fe2b997304e4766ca33fc00fbf44c04c Dear folks, I remember reading about the "jet on rails" somewhen in the late sixties in a German magazine. The unanimous opinion was: "Those crazy Americans..." Nobody believed it would be a feasible way of transport. However, speed records were achieved with a propeller-driven lightwight railcar in the 20´s (the famous "Schienenzeppelin), subsequently rebuilt to normal drive trough wheels, or an experimental rocket-driven car on rails (from Opel) about the same time. More use for aircraft propulsion was in the French Aerotrain around 1970, a hovercraft-system train on its own right-of-way. The propeller was used, because no part of the train touched the ground during operation, and thus no power could be transfered. This train remained experimental, and the problem of traction power for the Maglev-type trains today is solved by the Linear Induction Motor (LIM). However, thinking of a jet-plane-like vehicle racing at ground level through towns - what authority did dare to allow that? Regards, Burkhard ---- Burkhard Sanner Lahnau, Germany Craig Berndt schrieb: > Rich Copeland wrote: I'm trying to visualize a fleet of M-497's speeding along > between Toledo and Chicago. Forgive me for laughing!! > ______ > > Me: I still laugh. It was great. I lived in Butler, IN, at the time, and after > taking a few photos east of Butler, IN, a friend and I drove east to Edgerton, > OH, and waited for the RDC. There were men standing at the crossings along the > way - I seem to recall that they were all connected to the phone lines that ran > along the NYC double main. I think that their purpose was to ensure that > crossings remained open since the sort-of-an-RDC was a little too fast for the > lights if present, and probably a little faster than most people were used to > when seeing trains at grade crossings. > > It blew through Edgerton at something awesome after having run about three miles > already, and I remember being sand-blasted as it went by. We were within too > few feet of the main line at the time. It then ran east through several other > towns, including the city of Bryan, OH, with a population of about 6-8,000. I > think it ran about 20-25 miles altogether, making four runs total in two days? > > Imagine an RDC skipping off the rails at 180 MPH in a city of 6,000. > > Craig Berndt > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] AK tower Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:48:12 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 09dbea294e46ab2cae2c3dc7b57d9b63 I would like some information on AK tower. Where was it located? What did AK stand for? What did it control? When built? When razed? Thanks in advance!!!!! Greg Stone PRRTHS #1703 Special interest in Renovo yards Always looking for photos, postcards, information on Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Brandes" Subject: [PRR] PRR telegraphic code C.T. 900 Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:28:15 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dbf0d07be1ccf0db550440226c5c18a8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BF3E53.09EB81A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I currently have four different editions of the PRR code (C.T. 900) and = know of the existence of two other editions. The editions I do not = possess are in bold:=20 June 15, 1901 November 1, 1912 October 1, 1920 January 1, 1926 (revised November 16, 1925) December 1, 1931 January 1, 1946=20 I am particularly interested in obtaining the 1901 and 1920 editions and = any other editions that may exist.=20 My intent is to produce an essay concerning the reasons that telegraphic = cipher codes developed the way they did and why these codes did not = adopt the modern five letter code introduced (by Bentley) in 1906.=20 The 1912 edition I just obtained is interesting in that all code words = are four letter dictionary words. The 1926, 1931 and 1946 editions are = composed of dictionary words of varying length.=20 Was the 1912 edition a reaction to the recently introduced five letter = format? And if so, what were the reasons for employing a four letter = format and for maintaining the dictionary word format?=20 I would appreciate hearing from anyone who may know of sources for the = other editions of C.T. 900 or any PRR codes as well as sources of = information about the history of railroad telegraphy. Regards, Fred Brandes ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BF3E53.09EB81A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I currently have four different editions of the PRR = code (C.T.=20 900) and know of the existence of two other editions. The editions I do = not=20 possess are in bold:=20

June 15, 1901
November 1, 1912
October 1, = 1920
January=20 1, 1926 (revised November 16, 1925)
December 1, 1931
January 1, = 1946=20

I am particularly interested in obtaining the 1901 and 1920 editions = and any=20 other editions that may exist.=20

My intent is to produce an essay concerning the reasons that = telegraphic=20 cipher codes developed the way they did and why these codes did not = adopt the=20 modern five letter code introduced (by Bentley) in 1906.=20

The 1912 edition I just obtained is interesting in that all code = words are=20 four letter dictionary words. The 1926, 1931 and 1946 editions are = composed of=20 dictionary words of varying length.=20

Was the 1912 edition a reaction to the recently introduced five = letter=20 format? And if so, what were the reasons for employing a four letter = format and=20 for maintaining the dictionary word format?=20

I would appreciate hearing from anyone who may know of sources for = the other=20 editions of C.T. 900 or any PRR codes as well as sources of information = about=20 the history of railroad telegraphy.

Regards,

Fred Brandes

------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BF3E53.09EB81A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 14:52:04 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: [PRR] Horse Car Trucks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7f0a0cdc48785a94e3c3d66eb57ce756 List: Now that Bethlehem Car has brought out PRR horse and scenery cars, can anyone tell me where I might get good trucks for these cars. I have a brass model of each, but the trucks are not very free rolling. In fact, they stink! I'd like to replace them. Thanks, Larry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:04:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Horse Car Trucks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0b2d12efaed5cbaf8d464e51f830f958 LARRY, I have built the bethlahem car works Horse Car and ran into the same problem. I found a pair that are suitable for this car from D&S Hobbies. Made by Precision Scale. The truck class is 3D-5P2. I am satisfied with the rolling capabilities. Check out http://www.onerrave.com Scroll down to the manufactures listing and click on Prescision Scale.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 15:13:42 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Steam Loco Drivers, X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 83a977f6423476d0a9767d284735664a Gary: I have also read where the PRR driver lead is opposite all others. Yes, and probably because they were the PRR and no other reason. Now we'll all have to go and change our models to be "PRR Correct"! We wouldn't want some expert nit picking our efforts. Larry Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I do not remember where I read this so maybe one of you guys can > point me in the right direction or better yet answer these questions. On > a Pennsy Steam locomotive which drivers, Engineer or Firemans side, are > the ones that are quartered ahead of the other? It seems to me what I > read is the Pennsy was the oppisite from all other roads. Second part of > the question is would it make a difference and the third part of the > question why did the Pennsy do it the oppisite way? Once I know these > answers I am going to check my models. I bet you the models are wrong. > Boy would that be a nit pick at PRR Model contest!!!.....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 15:22:06 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] Horse Car Trucks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d9e9f888ce867f010ae04878df04e384 Larry & List: Bethlehem Car Works is now producing a 3D5P2 truck. They have excellent detail white metal castings and JayBee wheel sets. We have sold a number of pair and customers tell us they are very free rolling under the BCW cars or older Alco Models brass cars. These trucks are correct for some of the horse and scenery cars but I understand not all. Some cars apparently were equipped with the conventional drop equalizer trucks ala Central Valley. Frank Brua Larry Reynolds wrote: > List: > > Now that Bethlehem Car has brought out PRR horse and scenery cars, can > anyone tell me where I might get good trucks for these cars. I have a > brass model of each, but the trucks are not very free rolling. In fact, > they stink! I'd like to replace them. > > Thanks, > > Larry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 16:05:28 EST Subject: [PRR] "Keystone" and dues X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 54e68ef30d46f4486aaac0544cfdcd7f Mine came today, most of you should get yours very soon. I saw Dave Scott(?), treasurer of the national PRRT&HS, at the Philly chapter meeting today, and inquired about the dues notices. He gave a long litany of "problems at the printer", but said that the notices should be mailed this coming week. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: [PRR] Fw: [ldsig] Here's a Layout Planning Tool Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 17:18:06 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 14a7673a29480775c682e6d473a62129 These are on my Christmas list! Pricey, as I normally wouldn't buy the entire state. The Topo USA looks especially intesting, to a larger scale. Railroad archeology just made a step change for the better! -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ferris To: ldsig@onelist.com Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 2:05 PM Subject: [ldsig] Here's a Layout Planning Tool >From: Dean Ferris > > >Delorme has come out with CD-Roms that have every USGS >7.5 minute topo map for a state. The really cool >thing about this is it will also give you 3-D views >based on the contour lines - pick an area like >Tehachapi and you can really get a three dimensional >idea of the terrain - from any angle. You can >actually draw lines on a map and it'll give you a >cutaway cross section showing the grade profile for >your line with elevation gain. For those of us who >like to "survey" new rail lines for possible modeling >use you can really get an idea of how that line would >look in real life. It costs $149 per state, but they >have an introductory offer for $109 per state. They >don't have every state available yet but most of the >more populous ones are (some bigger states like Texas >and California are split up into sections). > >They also have a topo USA 2.0 which has 3-D topos for >the entire US - but at apparently a less detailed >level than the state topo 3-D's (Does anybody have >both the state and USA topos - it's hard to tell the >difference from the demo). They have good demos for >both products at http://www.delorme.com. > >dean ferris >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:45:16 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Cleaning brass models X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5bb21440b1f7a69a79c5d0e8537b5439 Gary, Thanks for the advice! I did, in fact mean Clint Chamberlain. Texas has had a deletorious affect on my memory! Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Doug, > > For small "spotty" Tarnish on brass all I use is wet/dry sand paper > and water. Just be careful of any rivits and other small details. For > the overall dark appearence that some PFM locos recieve over the years I > really do nothing with them except wash and air dry them. If you are > talking about tarnish that you can actually feel you have no other > choice to find sameone who has a hobby sand blaster. I don't think > brasso and your fingers can get to all the nooks and crannies. I just > sand blast only, I don't glass bead, and that paint sticks like it was > welded on. I plan on in the future to invest in a sand blasting booth > myself. I have been using the local hobby shops to this point. > Once I have the pieces painted I bake them in the oven at about 400 > degrees for 10-15 minutes or until golden brown. NO, way a minute, that > is what I do with french frys. It is 180 degrees for 30-45 minutes or > there abouts. Havn't melted one yet. Knock on wood!. > Doug, about the suggestion you told someone last night about a > source for K4 photos on the net. I liked your answer. Clint Black? The > country singer? I do believe you mean Clint Chamberlin ....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 00:12:19 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] X31F lettering circa 1948-52 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ea39c3bd165293827a5aaa239e9cd516 Hello list, I'm now decalling my X31F from Sunshine. I'm doing mine in the circle keystone scheme following the bottom photo on their prototype information sheet (X31F 81742). Please forgive me a dumb question when I ask, was it typical for these cars, during the 1948-52 timeframe to have the word AUTOMOBILES as part of their lettering? The photo has the white door stripe, but not the aforementioned word. I want a typical car, and if I can follow Sunshine's prototype photo exactly, I'd be content. However, I'd rather know now before I apply the dullcote. I know about the RailModel Journal article on these cars, and if I had found it in my storage unit, I would probably have the answer to this question. Do any of you have it handy? Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] RE: X31f paint scheme Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:37:14 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d3fcc5b1633d65bee8bedc1af4009a38 According to the Railmodel Journal 5/95 pp20-21 he quotes the Keystone article Vol. 21 no. 2, Summer 1988 >From their first construction until early 1954 cars were painted in what is commonly referred to as "the ball keystone" scheme, which included a 28-inch circle keystone stencil , and "PENNSYLVANIA" in 7-inch charachters. Modelers should note that many decal sets in the past have been incorrectly supplied with a 30- inch keystone. Cars in automobile service also recieved an "AUTOMOBILE" stencil until 1947, after which time the practice was dropped, although many cars continued in service with this scheme throughout the 1950s. He continues with the later schemes. I have the keystone he quotes. If I get the time I will check it also. Greg Stone PRRTHS member #1703 Special interest Renovo Yards Always looking for Photos, postcards, information on the Renovo yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Re: X31f paint scheme Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 06:45:17 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 35774ee8452694cb76b43ef4364e131e I have a photo of an X31- f dated 12-3-54 purchased from Mainline photos. It shows the car in circle keystone scheme with "pennsylvania" to the right of the door and no automobile lettering. The car number is 81271. If you need this photo I can give the address of Mainline photos. Contact me off list at GAS@fastinet.net Greg Stone PRRTHS member #1703 Special interest in Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 14:00:36 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Isolating Alco Products Bowser Repower kits for DCC X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b728c82dc79bd321c324f3d7caf2d913 Hello list, While I don't have a DCC system yet (or anything remotely resembling a layout), I've begun prepping for DCC. I've found that prepping my Bowser steamers with Alco Products repower kits is easier than I'd feared (some people fear valve gear and kits; I fear computers and electronics). I covered the bottom of my replacement motor where it touched the frame (my first guinea pig is my new I1sa) with .005 styrene, which was thin enough not to affect the gear mesh. I drilled a #50 hole in the side of the repower frame and tapped it 2-56 for a screw. Eventually, the wire from the decoder to the motor will attach here. I used metal screws to reattach the repower kit for now, since I'm still using pulse DC. When I get my DCC system, I'll used Kadee's plastic 2-56 screws, cut to length, to secure the repower kit. I like simple modifications, and I'll be doing my other steamers as I rebuild them or break them out of storage. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: endeimling@mindspring.com Subject: [PRR] PRR BUILDING BOOK Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:11:28 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 81eeef39c51100fe44e9c059358f1425 Does anyone know what the email address is for Trains and Stuff in Ocean City, MD? I need to get ahold of him regarding a book order. Thanks, Gene Deimling ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:33:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR BUILDING BOOK X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 77a2f2449bb6926f9754319e95a1bd84 Trains & Stuff 10216 Bent Creek Road Ocean City, Md 21842 (410-213-7122) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 13:59:36 -0800 From: Ron Dugas Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR BUILDING BOOK X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 66bbe0b55fd8f48e9f669246ecdd5dd2 Hi Gene, All, The email address is Later, Ron. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 18:05:16 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] Terre Haute Union Depot dates X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6836df8441eac6c3aaa2e96ae30c6c94 Gentlemen (& Ladies): Since time is growing short before I must finally caption a batch of Terre Haute Union Depot pictures, I am in dire need of some usable information I have been heretofore unable to secure. So... if anyone knows with reasonable certainty when: A. The twin steel and slate trainsheds were dismantled, and B. the lightning strike took off the coned cap which topped the depot tower, please e-mail the info at your earliest convenience. Now, without trying to be difficult, I need to know genuine dates, not guesses. I have plenty of guesses of my own, all of which are both imprecise and undocumentable I have seen photographs of the Depot from the mid-1920s which clearly show both the coned-cap and sheds. I suspect that the lightning strike occurred sopmetime in eather the late twenties or early thirties. And a good guess for the trainsheds would probably be the early 1940s, perhaps when scrap-steel was a dear commodity. I would deeply appreciate any help any of you can provide. Thanks, Richard Wallis Wheaton, Il. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:30:51 EST Subject: [PRR] Philly stops X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5506fb1ec728db2adecd547ac97cc27f Do I assume correctly that all corridor ttraffic stopped at both 30th St. and North Philly as long as the PRR ran the show? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 19:25:09 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 810981c6e739e4c8fd6ed2725ed51d61 The latest Model Railroader article on the Boston subway layout mentions a new can motor from Bowser. Is this going to be included in the PRR locomotive kits? -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, & Chautauqua branch web-site at http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 19:25:10 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PC 15257, Pecan, PA X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5f3cfd012d8473f4641e6f9d6b229b74 Hi, There are 2 Class N5 cabin cars reported at Vision Quest, Rt 8, Pecan, Pennsylvania. One is reported as PRR #? and the other as PC 15257. It seems like 15257 is an invalid PC number. Anyone near Pecan, PA? Perhaps a visit to Vision Quest to check on both cabin cars is in order. I think Vision Quest runs a wagon train for troubled youth, mostl from inner cities. Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 19:29:54 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR 477309, MA & NY X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 003eb138456be6680de4c6a7871b6eb8 Hi, Cabin car PRR 477309 has been reported at Shaughnesy Crane, Cypher St., South Boston, MA, and at Croton East Yard, Croton, NY. I think #477309 *was* at Croton but was sold to Shaughnesy and moved to South Boston. Does anyone know the facts on this one? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:00:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly stops X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5669af711ef620da9353b7af38332216 In a message dated 99-12-05 20:42:28 EST, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << Do I assume correctly that all corridor ttraffic stopped at both 30th St. and North Philly as long as the PRR ran the show? >> Well, almost all. The Florida Special didn't make North Philly (maybe you don't want to call that train "corridor", but it ran there!). Metroliners never were intended to make North Philly, although I believe PC was in control before they actually started revenue service. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 20:13:44 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR Bobber Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7593f702104ae4792e4e9405095b4384 Hi, When I left Ohio a year ago there was a PRR wood, 4 wheel caboose inside the Chelsea Distributing Building at the Trafford Commerce Center, Trafford, PA. It was reportedly to go to "eastern PA", perhaps Strasburg, but was being held ransom due to greed/litigation. Is this car still at Trafford or has it been rescued? If it is gone, where did it go? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 20:21:19 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] New Durham, NH, Caboose/Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: feaccb2f3577a5abff5fa7af2dc3ff6f Hi, There is a caboose being used as an Ice Cream Stand on Rt 11, New Durham, NH. It has been reported as a B&M car and as a PRR car. Anyone near enough to New Durham to check for frame &/or truck markings or has someone already identified which road this one is from? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 20:33:36 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Lincoln, NH, caboose/cabin car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ef8cd8ae9b0da52cce8088e0c2a89023 Hi, There is a caboos ebeing used as the Cafe Lafayette kitchen, Lincoln, NH, that has been reported as a PRR cabin car and as a RDG(D&H?) caboose. Has anyone made a positive identification of this car or who is close enough to check for frame &/or truck markings? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:34:43 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PC 15257, Pecan, PA X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 35bbd29b26ab38d0a0ed4ef96a7fcbec On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Roger Kirkpatrick wrote: > Hi, > > There are 2 Class N5 cabin cars reported at Vision Quest, Rt 8, Pecan, > Pennsylvania. One is reported as PRR #? and the other as PC 15257. It > seems like 15257 is an invalid PC number. > > Anyone near Pecan, PA? Perhaps a visit to Vision Quest to check on both > cabin cars is in order. > > I think Vision Quest runs a wagon train for troubled youth, mostl from > inner cities. That sounds right. If no one does before me I'll go for a ride next weekend -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 22:34:00 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 710f5882e2edf0a661e5de4b5b5e162d On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Jerry Shickler wrote: > The latest Model Railroader article on the Boston subway layout mentions > a new can motor from Bowser. Is this going to be included in the PRR > locomotive kits? The "new motor" project was a trolley thing, and thus far that's all I've heard. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: KEMACPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 00:01:43 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d51b0a3c3cc10c011034f2361d83ad42 Regarding the New Bowser motor , it's a power truck designed for their trolley series. I asked about 8-9 months ago Rich Cox at English's and Mr. Bowser ( the older gentlemen ) about the possibilty of a can motor in their steam engine series. Rich said they were looking into the possibilty but had not found one with the long term reliability that they were happy with. I guess it would be hard to beat the old Pittman open frame motors for long term running. What I would like to see would be a remotor kit something similar to what Mantua did for their steamers a few years ago. This repower kit included the top half of the gearbox which fit down over the already installed axle gear. All that is needed is two mounting holes tapped in the frame for mounting. Also an electrical pickup upgrade. That is picking up power from all drivers on both sides as well as both sides of tender trucks and a series of plastic bodied PRR tenders to go along with the upgraded loco's. Tenders would not need to have any water hatches, steps etc. applied as these are already available from Cal-Scale. This would be sort of a Rail Power idea applied to tenders and the nice thing is all the detail parts are already available. Just my two ( or twenty cents ) thrown in. Ken McCorry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:48:09 -0500 From: st96ap87@drexel.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly stops X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dad3b530261e0d3c5956d708a17298f2 >Do I assume correctly that all corridor ttraffic stopped at both 30th St. and >North Philly as long as the PRR ran the show? > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Some corridor traffic avoided thirtieth street entirely. Trains between Chicago, Harrisburg and New York entered or left the corridor at Zoo interlocking which is almost two miles north of thirtieth street. North Philadelphia was their primary Philadelphia stop. Zoo interlocking is where the Main Line through Pennsylvania connects with the corridor. The Northeast corridor is still to this day according to timetable an east-west railroad between Zoo and New York while it is north-south between Zoo and Washington D.C. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 07:39:47 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 16dd7b412edb9e5872cae1616b530b44 As a side comment, Alco Products, makers of the great Helix Humper retro motor kits is up for sale. If you were contemplating coverting to the Helix Humpers, better acquire your need units soon. Maybe Bowser would be an interested in purchasing the Alco Products line since a large number of the Helix units are for Bowser kits. Frank Brua KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Regarding the New Bowser motor , it's a power truck designed for their > trolley series. I asked about 8-9 months ago Rich Cox at English's and Mr. > Bowser ( the older gentlemen ) about the possibilty of a can motor in their > steam engine series. Rich said they were looking into the possibilty but had > not found one with the long term reliability that they were happy with. I > guess it would be hard to beat the old Pittman open frame motors for long > term running. > What I would like to see would be a remotor kit something similar to what > Mantua did for their steamers a few years ago. This repower kit included the > top half of the gearbox which fit down over the already installed axle gear. > All that is needed is two mounting holes tapped in the frame for mounting. > Also an electrical pickup upgrade. That is picking up power from all drivers > on both sides as well as both sides of tender trucks and a series of plastic > bodied PRR tenders to go along with the upgraded loco's. Tenders would not > need to have any water hatches, steps etc. applied as these are already > available from Cal-Scale. This would be sort of a Rail Power idea applied to > tenders and the nice thing is all the detail parts are already available. > Just my two ( or twenty cents ) thrown in. > Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 08:20:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fad0de2d503a58606e3a73a5edf3654b On 12/6/99 7:39 AM, Park Varieties (parkvarieties@provide.net) wrote: > As a side comment, Alco Products, makers of the great Helix Humper retro > motor kits is up for sale. If you were contemplating coverting to the Helix > Humpers, better acquire your need units soon. Maybe Bowser would be > an interested in purchasing the Alco Products line since a large number of > the Helix units are for Bowser kits. Interesting to hear the "up for sale" rumor. I've had some product on order for some time and have heard nothing. I leave FAXes and phone messages and get no response. Unfortunate...they have a very large product line that extends well beyond Bowser repowering. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: bobsin@nac.net Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 08:16:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly stops X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e8ed5c4c1a41e654cee9879e2ac338ba >From 1964 timetables it appears that all trains running through North Philadelphia, including through trains to the South and West, made that stop. This was five years before the Metroliners, of course. But all we are talking about is 30th St and N. Phila; what happened to BROAD STREET in the discussion? That would make the discussion a bit more interesting! John Bobsin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:15:53 -0500 From: "Tom Mahon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Lincoln, NH, caboose/cabin car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3f8c28e1081b24ad3e77414ff1c781a8 Roger Kirkpatrick wrote: > Hi, > > There is a caboos ebeing used as the Cafe Lafayette kitchen, Lincoln, > NH, that has been reported as a PRR cabin car and as a RDG(D&H?) > caboose. > > Has anyone made a positive identification of this car or who is close > enough to check for frame &/or truck markings? > > Thanks, Roger > -- > S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". Roger, I have pictures of the original cars when they were being stored across from the property. I will try to check them out. My recollection is that the cars were B&M and Conrail and the Conrail units had a definite N-5 look to them. I am very busy right now, so I can't promise immediate results. A gentle prod now and again would be helpful. My recollection of the unit being used for the dinner train is a B&M unit. The cupola is very tall. I might even have a picture of that unit in my archives. Tom Mahon Merrimack, NH ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:03:55 -0500 From: Park Varieties Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 05d74e812557c896ed6245b5fb12fcb7 Not a rumor Jerry - they have an ad in the January Model Railroader classifieds under the heading For Sale - Misc. Frank Brua Jerry Britton wrote: > On 12/6/99 7:39 AM, Park Varieties (parkvarieties@provide.net) wrote: > > > As a side comment, Alco Products, makers of the great Helix Humper retro > > motor kits is up for sale. If you were contemplating coverting to the Helix > > Humpers, better acquire your need units soon. Maybe Bowser would be > > an interested in purchasing the Alco Products line since a large number of > > the Helix units are for Bowser kits. > > Interesting to hear the "up for sale" rumor. I've had some product on order > for some time and have heard nothing. I leave FAXes and phone messages and > get no response. Unfortunate...they have a very large product line that > extends well beyond Bowser repowering. > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 14:25:47 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] PRR 477309 cabin car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 464a7d11551a1c8ef10eb58ea561cbef Hi, It appears that PRR 477309 *is* in South Boston so I'll remove the Croton, NY, entry. Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 17:59:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PC 15257, Pecan, PA X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7c1b52cdc980fbf132f6b6058835a755 In a message dated 12/5/99 9:36:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, caboose@chaffee.net writes: << There are 2 Class N5 cabin cars reported at Vision Quest, Rt 8, Pecan, Pennsylvania. One is reported as PRR #? and the other as PC 15257. It seems like 15257 is an invalid PC number. >> Much more likely PC 19257 on an N5. Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:16:42 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3264e10a2e5d42eb6245b741c323ccb Jerry and the list, The new Bowser motor and gear drive is for their trolleys. The motor itself looks suspiciously like the Alco Products motor. I, for one, would like to see Bowser incorporate the Alco Products repower kits into their products from the start. I have scrapped over a dozen open frame motors from Mantua and Bowser because I want flywheels. For now, I'll keep dreaming and buying my repower kits from Jerry! Doug Jerry Shickler wrote: > The latest Model Railroader article on the Boston subway layout mentions > a new can motor from Bowser. Is this going to be included in the PRR > locomotive kits? > > -- > Jerry Shickler > e-mail: geshick@velocity.net > Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, & Chautauqua branch web-site at > http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:19:55 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] New Bowser motor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 148c5783d128990d30445b14d0f14dd6 Ken, I agree completely with what you're saying! I'm happy with my Alco Products repower kits (though the Mantua gearbox idea works well in their engines!) and find them quite durable. As far as tenders go, the first person to create a 110P75a shell for the Bachmann 110P70 frame will find me at their doorstep at any hour, waving a fist full of cash for a dozen of the 110P75a shells! Doug KEMACPRR@aol.com wrote: > Regarding the New Bowser motor , it's a power truck designed for their > trolley series. I asked about 8-9 months ago Rich Cox at English's and Mr. > Bowser ( the older gentlemen ) about the possibilty of a can motor in their > steam engine series. Rich said they were looking into the possibilty but had > not found one with the long term reliability that they were happy with. I > guess it would be hard to beat the old Pittman open frame motors for long > term running. > What I would like to see would be a remotor kit something similar to what > Mantua did for their steamers a few years ago. This repower kit included the > top half of the gearbox which fit down over the already installed axle gear. > All that is needed is two mounting holes tapped in the frame for mounting. > Also an electrical pickup upgrade. That is picking up power from all drivers > on both sides as well as both sides of tender trucks and a series of plastic > bodied PRR tenders to go along with the upgraded loco's. Tenders would not > need to have any water hatches, steps etc. applied as these are already > available from Cal-Scale. This would be sort of a Rail Power idea applied to > tenders and the nice thing is all the detail parts are already available. > Just my two ( or twenty cents ) thrown in. > Ken McCorry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:35:42 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9bafc51dc29a32ddbafe113f0970a555 Hello list, My long hunt for an H6sb to call my own has ended. I found one at a good price from Lambert on Red Caboose Hobby Shop's web page and my new toy arrived today. My engine has a open frame motor, but it floats on a torque arm attached to a semi-enclosed gearbox. I have a feeling that the engine was test run only; when first run, she drew nearly an amp, and that's dropped by half so far (roughly 15 minutes of run in time). Have any of you owning similar engines from Lambert repowered them with good results? Gary Mittner, this would be the perfect time to speak up! I'm planning on DCC in the future and I'd also like to fit a flywheel if I can stuff one in. My engine is an H6sb, but it lacks the power reverse, pilot air tank, and under cab air tanks of my chosen prototype, the 2846, which resides at the RR Museum of PA. Have any of you converted the Lambert engines (or their later cousins from Sunset) to represent a late H6sb? The power reverse isn't a problem, as Cal Scale makes a great one, and I've got the parts for the pilot air tank lined up already. The one remaining issue is the under cab air tanks. I think the ones from Bowser's A5s will work, but do any of you list members have other suggestions? Is is a great sin to attach parts with goo or CA? This would be my first experience soldering on a brass model, and I've read all about covering nearby details with wet tissues to keep them from coming off. I think low temperature solder would be the way to go, but I'm a bit paranoid! Are there any other pitfalls to soldering on brass that lurk out there in the woodwork? While my search is over, I would still like to see one (and I would buy several) in plastic or metal. Between B&O and PRR there were 2200 H6/H6a/H6b/E24 engines built, and some of the engines served into the 1950s (H6sb on the PRR, E24a and L1 on the B&O). Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:06:18 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] PRR FP7 Antenna set X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ae2a6027d3e7a637cce20fd0bf55da67 Hello list, I have dusted off another of my previoulsy dormant projects and am continuing work on a kitbashed FP7/EFP15 for my grandfather. I must confess that I began this project so long ago that I used a pair of Athearn shells and stretched an Athearn F7 frame go get the basics. Why, do you ask? At the time I started this project, the Atlas FP7s were rare, expensive creatures and out of production. Also, this was going to be a dummy locomotive. Anyway, RMC ran a great article on detailing a PRR FP7 a few years back. Naturally, it's buried in my storage unit. If I'm lucky, I'll find it this weekend. For my unit (I plan on modelling the 9832 as delivered, because she came in the Tuscan red 5 stripe scheme), how far apart are the antenna support spaced on the long axis of the locomotive? I had great prototype shots for my E units when I added their antenna sets (to a Lifelike EP20/E7 and a Model Power/Roco EP22/E8). Shots of the relatively rare FP7 seem to always be at an angle. While it's easy to drill the holes for the rear supports, it's hard to tell where the forwardmost pair of supports were located. I found the FP7 posts in the list archives; there were 31 messages, which revealed some information that I hadn't known, like the FP7s being used on name trains in the midwest. I had only recently found out about their use late in life on the PRSL through John Stroup's PRSL in Color Book from Morning Sun. Thanks in advance! I know that you're all shocked that I'm working on a diesel, but my grandfather loves Es and Fs almost as much as he loves CNJ camelbacks! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:01:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cab04ec999a87c01859d757380cdb302 Doug, So many questions, So any questions. Where should I start to answer. First of all those Lambert H6sb's are great looking and great running models. I personally don't have any but have painted several. They ran great as is. But with the new DCC systems coming I suppose a can motor will greatly enhance the operation. I am not sure what size can motor would fit in there. Maybe a 1630 Sagami or a size smaller. Flywheel is questionable due to the lack of space.. I can't find the photos of the ones I painted but I am surprised the model dosn't have the standard H6sb feature you say it is lacking. I can't remember from memory what the detailing is like. I will look for my photos later. I have a Sunset H6sb that was released in the late 8o's early 90's time frame. This model is filled with nice detail including the power reverse, cab tanks etc. To top it off, it runs very well in all speed ranges. It is powered with a can motor as well. I believe I paid around $260.00ish for it back then. At the time I think those Lamberts H6sb's were selling for $350-$400. A photo of my Sunset H6sb is located at my website. Now for soldering. All I can say is I wish I owned a resistance soldering unit!!! I never invested in one. I still use the old gun for my work. I believe the Lambert Consolidations were coated with a clear laquar. This must be removed if you plan on soldering or you will find yourself getting frustrated fast. Depending on how much clear coat needs to be removed depends on how much soldering you are going to do. You may have to strip the whole loco to do the work you are describing. That wet tissue trick works well. Saved a many small connections that way while soldering bigger details. Good Luck!......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:12:08 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Location of I1sa blowdown muffler X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: efe772e90aaf0f34f5b12b15edb63668 Hello list, With considerable help from Don Harper and Gary Mittner, plus using my magnifying glass on a few hundred I1sa photos in my reference books, I've determined that the I1sa blowdown mufflers were always centered on the boiler centerline. Bowser's part 90507 is designed to be mounted off center, and is inaccurate as a result. You could cut off the pipes, drill for .040 brass wire (I used a #61 bit), and center the thing. I got this mostly right; I made new pipes, but still mounted the muffler off center (it was the best information I had at the time). By the time I had correct information (courtesy of the two gentlemen above), I had begun painting. This was a learning experience, and a fun one. I'm now painting my engine, and I'll be glad to have it finished soon. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:20:42 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Taking the bull by the horns X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ebd164d03448e59bc540d37a4c0912f5 Hello list, I emailed Bowser and suggested that they consider purchasing Alco Products because it would be a natural product tie in. I also suggested that they start selling their kits with the Alco Products can motors as standard equipment. I have never been noted for my subtlety, but if this results in continued production of a needed product, I'm all for it! Perhaps if other list members emailed Bowser (their site can be linked from Jerry's Keystone Crossings, or you can use the URL http://www.bowser-trains.com), we could have a positive snowball effect on Bowser. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FP7 Antenna set Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:38:41 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f031ab8290af36100ed6d1ac545ca6de Doug--Pennsy Power II page 319 has a couple of photos useful for antenna placement on FP7's. The front one should lineup just slightly (1/16th inch) behind the cab door. The photos will allow you to approximate the others; they are not evenly spaced. For the pilot on your model you might consider Intermountain's passenger pilot they are offering with their F7; better than any other pilot offered. Just what the serious SPF needs. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:21:32 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5008022815857bc8f692f72ba214183d Doug, A couple of comments regarding the Lambert H6sb...I once owned one many years ago (and wish I had it now) so these are from what I remember. In case you are wondering why yours dosen't run quite as nicely as Gary describes it, the solution might be that these models are rather picky as to how they are assembled. I found this out when I bought mine from a now defunct hobby shop. In the shop it ran like a dream, but when I had paid it off and took it home it ran like crap. I was rather suprised to say the least...I approached the shop owner and asked him what the problem was. He said that he had given the engine to a local "repairman" who supposedly had "tuned it up" and had apparently never test run it after he had reassembled it. Upon disassembly and reassembly I had apparently gotten all the right screws into their respective holes (or whatever...I never quite figured out what I had done) it ran as before. Incidently, I have never given this "repairman" a penny of my business to this day. As for the prototype, I recall that Lambert's builder actually supplied an etched tender plate with the locomotive's number on it. This can help you get the relevant photos. Good luck, Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] X-29 drawing Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:27:34 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b7eb668278f6ef6cff947e9681b3b3e2 List, Is Ken Briers a member of the list or does a list member know him ? He wrote an air brake article for the summer 1998 Keystone that included an X-29 express air brake general arrangement drawing # C442091 that I need a copy of a.s.a.p. for a brass car project. I would be willing to buy or trade for a good copy. Any help would be appreciated. My address is: Bill Lane P.O. box 5252 Deptford N.J. 08096 Thank You Bill ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR FP7 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:24:47 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bf97ca34138f26bf7303652aa73e7483 I saw a few FP7's in and around Enola, starting in 1953 or 1954, when they were Tuscan with five stripes. Almost ten years later, they were in the freight pool, in DGLE with single stripe. I kitbashed my own FP7's just like you. I found out the hard way (after trashing a couple of Athearn F7 frames, that the GP38-2 frame comes out just about right for the FP7. I think Athearn's F7 shell looks much better than the Roco FP7 (windshields too small--looks like it's squinting). Andrew Harmantas, SPF, from down here near C&O Milepost FM Zero. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:48:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] K4 Drivers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 006997ae20db6d89a38909abb07b2196 List, Again this question goes to the modelers on this list. I am rebuilding an HO Scale PFM K4. This is the model from the early 1960's. It is the post war version. After cleaning it and reassembling it I see the drivers are basically shot on this one. They wobble, they are loose and out of quarter. Instead of trying to repair them does anyone have any spare PFM K4 drivers in their parts bin? I need all 3 but would settle for 2 for replacements. Thanks in advance...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:27:19 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 Drivers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f246c937de7b6e33b493e93c7a7a152f There is a discussion going now on AOL about how to insulate loose tires on brass engines ( I know this isn't our problem). He swears that the best way to put them on is to slip a condom over the driver and press the tire in place. I can see my wifes reaction to purchasing condoms and my reasoning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 Drivers Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:04:53 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c290e77a7bc6433bc46f16b76fc38311 When condom companies begin to advertise in MR for this is when I will have seen everything! Ted Andrews P.S. Always practice "safe" driver insulating..... -----Original Message----- From: NDBPRR@aol.com [mailto:NDBPRR@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:27 AM To: mittner@webtv.net Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] K4 Drivers There is a discussion going now on AOL about how to insulate loose tires on brass engines ( I know this isn't our problem). He swears that the best way to put them on is to slip a condom over the driver and press the tire in place. I can see my wifes reaction to purchasing condoms and my reasoning! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:16:35 -0500 Subject: [PRR] TANGENT: 3rd PlanIt From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ad8862facc3d877f29e22aad2f5d9a22 Anyone on the list using 3rd PlanIt for model railroad CAD? Following the excellent comparative article in MR this month, I've bought it. Haven't installed it yet. But am downloading it now. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:31:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] K4 Drivers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3560e82abe95bef8cf37ae6ac6b6d75 Yeah, but is it one size fits all. Is it good for 52" drivers as well as 80" drivers? http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:51:20 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0bc10d8343338b3178a93560b7e8871e Dear List: Does this mean I shouldn't use up all those 100' rolls of die cut fibre ties I've been working with for many years? Anyone need any fibre tie turnouts in code 100 steel? Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: Ljgurke@aol.com To: jerry@pennsyrr.com Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Code 83 vs Code 100 and the PRR >Jerry and List, > >I'm using: > >- Atlas Code 100 Flex and #6 switches hidden staging yards >- Micro-Engineering Code 100 / Peco Insulfrog Code 100 Switches ("DCC >Friendly") on the Mainline >- Micro-Engineering Code 83 / Atlas Code 83 #4/#6 and Tilig Code 83 #5 >switches (also all "DCC friendly"), in branchlines and yards. > >I like the look and "feel" of the M-E track - although being stiff it is a >little harder to work with than the Atlas "super-flex". So far, I've had a >bit of a hard time finding the M-E Code 100 track - though it looks like >Standard Hobby Supply just came through. Some of the Peco turnouts appear to >be in short supply as well. I have been impressed with the Tillig turnouts, >as an alternative to code 83 Atlas or Shinohara - European prototype close-up >but weathered rail with continuous (no pivot) point rails. Also, I >understand that the Shinohara/Walthers turnouts can take quite a bit of work >to make "DCC friendly". > >Mike Hagan > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "mailto:listmaster@dsop.com. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:24:25 EST Subject: [PRR] K4 drivers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f83b5281b2964d8ca84c45e2e41fb3ef >He swears that the best way to put them on is to slip a condom over the driver and >press the tire in place. Is that a lubricated or non-lubricated one? If we would use the lubricated one, does that mean we don't need to use the mechanical lubricators? Why didn't the Pennsy think of that? Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:57:10 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1feb82dc7584c4f55317e965ca804a46 Gary, Thanks for the advice! My engine is probably laquer coated; there are two different hues of brass; the frame and tender trucks are a bright shiny brass, and the rest of the engine is a duller bronze color. This is my first experience with brass, so I'm not 100% sure of what I'm looking at. Detailwise, hand reversed H6sb engines (one air tank on each running board) lasted until the late 1940s. H6sb 1 was, I believe, retired as a hand reversed engine in 1949. There is a precedent for both the power reverse engines and the hand reversed engines on a 40s layout. However, the few H6sb engines that I've got photos of in the 50s all have power reverse. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Doug, > > So many questions, So any questions. Where should I start to answer. > First of all those Lambert H6sb's are great looking and great running > models. I personally don't have any but have painted several. They ran > great as is. But with the new DCC systems coming I suppose a can motor > will greatly enhance the operation. I am not sure what size can motor > would fit in there. Maybe a 1630 Sagami or a size smaller. Flywheel is > questionable due to the lack of space.. I can't find the photos of the > ones I painted but I am surprised the model dosn't have the standard > H6sb feature you say it is lacking. I can't remember from memory what > the detailing is like. I will look for my photos later. > I have a Sunset H6sb that was released in the late 8o's early 90's > time frame. This model is filled with nice detail including the power > reverse, cab tanks etc. To top it off, it runs very well in all speed > ranges. It is powered with a can motor as well. I believe I paid around > $260.00ish for it back then. At the time I think those Lamberts H6sb's > were selling for $350-$400. A photo of my Sunset H6sb is located at my > website. > Now for soldering. All I can say is I wish I owned a resistance > soldering unit!!! I never invested in one. I still use the old gun for > my work. I believe the Lambert Consolidations were coated with a clear > laquar. This must be removed if you plan on soldering or you will find > yourself getting frustrated fast. Depending on how much clear coat needs > to be removed depends on how much soldering you are going to do. You may > have to strip the whole loco to do the work you are describing. That wet > tissue trick works well. Saved a many small connections that way while > soldering bigger details. Good Luck!......Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:01:13 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e97b5c5028ab749230ea037abb13ece3 Bill, Thanks for the information. I got courageous enough to take off the cover plate, but I put it back on quickly, lest gremlins enter the frame. I'm very comfortable working on my Bowser K4s engines, but this will be the first time I've worked on a sprung chassis. I have yet to lubricate the engine's gearbox, which I suspect would reduce amp draw even further. The tender badge plate is a nice touch, but the 2846 has a tender from an E6s, so I'll be removing that beautiful plate and replacing the tender trucks on my tender at some point. Alas. Doug Bill Daniels wrote: > Doug, > > A couple of comments regarding the Lambert H6sb...I once owned one many > years ago (and wish I had it now) so these are from what I remember. > > In case you are wondering why yours dosen't run quite as nicely as Gary > describes it, the solution might be that these models are rather picky as to > how they are assembled. I found this out when I bought mine from a now > defunct hobby shop. In the shop it ran like a dream, but when I had paid it > off and took it home it ran like crap. I was rather suprised to say the > least...I approached the shop owner and asked him what the problem was. He > said that he had given the engine to a local "repairman" who supposedly had > "tuned it up" and had apparently never test run it after he had reassembled > it. Upon disassembly and reassembly I had apparently gotten all the right > screws into their respective holes (or whatever...I never quite figured out > what I had done) it ran as before. Incidently, I have never given this > "repairman" a penny of my business to this day. > > As for the prototype, I recall that Lambert's builder actually supplied an > etched tender plate with the locomotive's number on it. This can help you > get the relevant photos. > > Good luck, > > Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:22:31 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] FP7 antenna set X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd625b2a57a3ba07bcb8103cbbe2b699 Hello list, Thanks to all of you who replied to my FP7 queries. Once I opened the package for the antenna set, I found that the directions had two nice shots of the antenna set installed on an Atlas FP7. According to page 159 of Pennsy Diesel Years I, the FP7s were numbered 9832A-9871A. There were 14 F7B units geared to work with the FP7 units; they were numbered 9832B-9858B (apparently even numbers only). I believe that only the first four FP7 units (and two of the F7Bs) got the tuscan red and 5 stripe scheme, but I cannot back this up. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:47:54 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Miracle to Release FM H-16-44!!! From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 79455831e9e8eaa098a8709330f1de0d (Cross posted to both "Merchandise Announce" and "PRR-Talk".) Good news from the folks at Miracle Castings: "We're producing an FM H-15-44 / H-16-44 in the Loewy car body. Expected shipping date is late January early February 2000, The first released version will be a Pennsy (naturally), probably followed by a NYC, UP, and Santa Fe version. After that, we expect to release an adaptable kit which can be built for all the other 39000 variations they had. (The number of variations is brutal). Just so you know, this project is well along, and I personally expect that the Pennsy version may wind up being earlier than that date. No pricing news yet, but I expect it to be the same as our other kits. The kit will have a chassis that accepts the standard Athearn road truck, as used on their GE's and GM's. I know this truck is a few inches too short, but it does have the advantage of easy availability, and that both types of sideframes (AAR and C-Liner) used on the FM's being available for it. For those who want a better chassis, it may be possible to adapt an Atlas or Kato RS-3 unit to the shell, as it is exactly the same truck spacing, and the truck wheelbase is very close to the FM AAR style trucks. Those issues still haven't been resolved totally. The shell is substantially complete, but work hasn't started on the chassis / fuel tank yet." Merchandise Service is accepting Advance Reservations for this new unit. Their existing BP20 Passenger Shark A and B units and their FM Erie-built A and B units are in stock. See http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] FP7 antenna set Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:35:17 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 96b44594bb425f0d0c3eb6990596fd28 Doug--I concur about the first four FP7's being painted tuscan with 5 stripes; I know I have read that but I can not recall where at the moment. The F7B's delivered with the FP7's also were equipped with steam heat boilers. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:19:40 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b294ab8724199f6dde0c7413fa87395b Last week we discussed Branchline Trains entry into the heavyweight Pullman market. They will initially have three cars: an 8-1-2, a coach, and a 10-1-2. The first will have three accurate names for PRR. The coach is not PRR appropriate. The third will also have three accurate names for the PRR, but I am having difficulty finding them in use as of 1954. Perhaps they were converted to MoW by then. Anyway, they will be provided in the later, three-stripe Dulux Gold scheme. I asked branchline about future offerings. Here's the good news: > Yes... we have already made decisions on what will eventually be the next > five choices of heavyweights, but that information is not yet ready for > public release. That should give us a total of eight different cars in a high-quality kit! > > We agree that Pennsy fans would enjoy the cars you mentioned. I mentioned the 28-1 Parlor, the 14 section, and the 6-6. Hopefully they'll nail down one or more of these! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:33:41 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cf56d8011433d3703d1ddee5edb692e5 Jerry, I hope you did not forget to suggest the 8-5 "Clover" cars as well. They were as common as the 6-6 "Poplar" cars and like the 6-6's, a single vestibule sleeper. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:46:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 502ce3a9374b8ea23d2c28f5dd0a37f2 On 12/8/99 11:33 AM, Andy Miller (asmiller@mitre.org) wrote: > I hope you did not forget to suggest the 8-5 "Clover" cars as well. > They were as common as the 6-6 "Poplar" cars and like the 6-6's, a > single vestibule sleeper. > No, I did not mention them. Not as an omission, but I only mentioned the next three types that I personally have needs for. I agree that the 8-5's are also needed, as are a 14-4, and a 10-3. Plus, I need a variety of P70 subclasses. I haven't yet determined which of those currently available equate to which subclasses. I need: P70GSR P70 Scheme 6 P70KR PB70 Scheme 4 PB70 Scheme 6 --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 10:40:23 -0600 From: tracker Subject: [PRR] Waynesburg & Washington X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bc89bf41f37b60b3502e43259fcb3e5a Looking for information beyond basic stuff concerning the W&W. Thanks Jud Powell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: Re: [PRR] TANGENT: 3rd PlanIt Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:09:07 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7ed7f16c3b8ff273df1b1d1ac24293a0 Jerry scribed: >Anyone on the list using 3rd PlanIt for model railroad CAD? About a year ago a friend of mine purchased a copy and asked me to help him design final plans for a layout using 3rd PlanIt. I loaded it on a laptop and took it with me on an extended business trip. I worked with it nights and weekends for about 3 weeks. It looked as if it had tremendous potential to do everything from track planning to full 3D rendering of a finished layout. I found some things easy and intuitive, others well documented in the manual, but a lot of frustration in trying to get other things to work. I remember difficulties trying to get various pieces of track connected in the track planning process. Sometimes things worked as you expected, at other time it was impossible to get two separate sections connected properly. Several times I e-mailed files containing my problem to Randy Pfeiffer at 3rd PlanIt and each time he fixed the problem and e-mailed it back along with an explanation of what he did. He was always patient and helpful, but I never really got the hang of it and every time I encountered a problem it was a couple of days to e-mail Randy and get an answer. Many times I encountered the same or similar problems to those I had e-mailed Randy, and even with his explanations, I was unable to get things to work correctly. Maybe I am just a slow learner, however I have been in the software development and implementation business for over thirty years and usually can figure out a new package very quickly. By the time my trip was over and I was back in the states, I had given up and returned the copy of 3rd PlanIt to my friend and we finished drawing his layout by hand in a few hours. Bottom line: It looks fantastic, if you can get through the learning curve, but don't expect that to happen overnight. Bill Laird Canyon Lake, Texas ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:22:03 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: [PRR] REA operations X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 25ed3d09d063209fb65916df69d396d2 Bowser offers cabin cars painted for Railway Express Agency assignment. Can anyone answer some questions on how the REA operated? - Were two cabins assigned to some trains -- one for the train crew and one for REA personel? - Did REA personel regularly ride along? Why would they need to? - Did REA cabins operate system-wide, or just on main routes? - Does anyone have any info specific to REA operations on the Erie branches? Thanks! -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:32:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] REA operations From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 80820418fee14e5806bd1879dc9020a1 On 12/8/99 1:22 PM, Jerry Shickler (geshick@velocity.net) wrote: > Bowser offers cabin cars painted for Railway Express Agency assignment. > Can anyone answer some questions on how the REA operated? > > - Were two cabins assigned to some trains -- one for the train crew and > one for REA personel? That I can't answer, but I have seen photos of mail trains with two cabins. Usually only one, however. I would think the cabin was for the train crew. If there were any REA personnel, they would be inside the cars in the consist (B60's, etc.). > > - Did REA personel regularly ride along? Why would they need to? I think they only rode in cars signified with the "gold star" on the side...the messenger. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:42:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] REA X-29 vs. MS-60 From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2635c389fc633f87ff72c9c0ab59db8a I asked this a year ago, and in checking the archives, confirmed that I never got a definitive answer. Using the Makeup of Trains to check train consists, most trains have their REA cars indicated by B-60, X-29, R-50, etc. However, many indicate MS-60, for "mail storage". If I recall, an "MS-60" was really any B-60, R-? or X-? as available. My question is, does an X-29 qualify as an MS-60 or was it another class of box car? My "Third Trick" modeling project, surprisingly, calls for only one X-29 out of all of the trains that pass through Harrisburg! In addition to 17 B-60's, it calls for another 17 MS-60's. The latter could also be B-60's, but I am looking for variety. I had purchased a dozen of the Red Caboose X-29's in REA scheme, but it appears that I may not need them! Anyone? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:58:07 EST Subject: [PRR] Keystone and Greenwich yard X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6314d9a001f20b6fc3719ae0aa0feb92 Winter Keystone arrived Chicago yesterday but there was no renewal notice in it. I was under the impression that was to occur. Anybody know any details? On a separate note - How was Greenwich yard used in the overall scheme of Philly ops.. Was this the destination point for all out of district freight from where it was sent to the various support yards? Or was it just for the river traffic? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 14:20:33 -0500 From: Christopher Chany Subject: Re: [PRR] Keystone and Greenwich yard X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bfedf68cccc8c9ac300b3f7efa9009d7 Listers, In the Keystone it says starting with the year 2001 renewals the form will be in the Keystone. Also there is a sheet in mine to send for the Convention registration packet. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: VVA249@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:07:08 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 80a9741fff5d3ac0b187a8bc0050c7f4 In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: << The tender badge plate is a nice touch, but the 2846 has a tender from an E6s, The tender still has a badge plate - decal in "2846" on the blank part, lower right hand side, as the current assignment. One other factor which you might want to consider before calling your H-6 "2846" - the Strasburg loco. If you have nit picky friends modeling a saved loco isn't always the best thing, unless you plan to be very accurate. NOTE that the museum loco has an unusual detail: a 4 - 6" steam line running off the fireman's side of the steam dome the length of the boiler, then ducking down under the pilot, about where the boiler meets the smoke box. There is a big "globe" valve and a "reach rod" back into the cab - this steam line branched into two nozzles - and was used for melting ice out of switch points - probably why the loco lasted long enough - and in good enough condition - to be preserved Dick Ross Cleveland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:15:34 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c3e9275431be20dce3f0b7788e6708d4 As of April 29, 1950, the following 10-1-2 assignments were in effect: Westward trains # 37 Iron City Express 1 car to Birmingham AL # 67 Jeffersonian 1 car #103 The Edison 1 car #111 The Legislator 2 cars on Monday 1 car on Wed. & Fri. #125 The Executive aka Birmingham Special 2 cars (1 to Birmingham, AL and on to Knoxville, TN) #129 The Potomac 2 cars (1 to Savannah Ga. 1 to Augusta, GA both via ACL) #139 Peach Queen aka Pelican 4 cars (1 to Shreveport, LA, 2 to Charlotte, NC, ! to Atlanta, GA all via Southern) #141 6 cars (1 to Tampa, FL via ACL; 1 to Fort Meyers, FL via ACL; 1 to Wilmington, NC via ACL; 1 to New Orleans via Sou; 1 to Mobile, AL via Sou; 1 to Charlotte, NC via Sou) #143 1 car (Miami via SAL) #149 The Crescent 2 cars (1 to Asheville, NC and 1 to Augusta, GA both via Sou) #169 The Washingtonian 1 car #185 2 cars from New Haven deadhead back to New Haven pre and post tourist season #185 The Bar Harbor 6 cars tourist season Eastward trains #38 The Cleveland/Akronite 1 car to Roanoke VA #108 The Piedmont Ltd 4 cars (1 from Charlotte, 1 from New Orleans, 1 from Mobile, 1 from Birmingham all via Sou) #110 The Havana Special 2 cars (1 from Fort Meyers, 1 from Wilmington both via ACL) #118 The Crescent 3 cars (1 from Augusta, 1 from Charlotte, 1 from Asheville all via Sou) #122 The Palmetto/Pelican 4 cars (1 from Atlanta via Sou; 1 from Shreveport via Sou; 1 from Savannah via ACL; 1 from Augusta via ACL) #132 The Representative 2 cars (1 from Knoxville; 1 from Birmingham both via Sou) #168 1 car from Wash. to Hyanis. MA #184 Bar Harbor pre and post season 2 cars #184 Bar Harbor during tourist season 6 cars all originating in Phila. Car assignments train #37 Lake Bruin, Lake Constance, Lake Girard, Lake Bernard train #67 Lake Bennett, Lake Felicity, Lake Charm The above is taken from Pennsy Journal Vol 2 No 1 and 2. Several questions arise from this information. Since most of these cars are in pool service with ACL, Sou and SAL, how were they painted -- PRR or the livery of the southern roads with PRR reporting marks? Were the assigned cars the only ones in PRR paint? Were the cars interchanged with the New Haven in PRR or NH livery? Since there is not reverse routing, how do the cars get to Cleveland to originate on the east bound Clevelander? Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:53:50 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c40a6e6c85f42c65e2f0da1869ddb1b4 Rich & folks, Some of this is news to me. I have a very strong hunch that some of that data from Pennsy Journal is in error, at least as regards a Cleveland-Roanoke car. First off the Clevelander and Akronite were still separate trains in 1950 #'s 38 and 10. I wonder if that article didn't confuse the car carried on #638, running up from Roanoke which carried a New York 10 section car, as well as a 10-6? As regards the colors on the 10 section cars handed over to ACL. SR and SAL, it seems any Pennsy cars painted say in green or Two-tone grey would have been mentioned in some of the interline car threads that have run...but then who knows? Just seems highly unlikely such cars would have escaped notice in the Tulp/Blardone book. Pennsy didn't seem shy about running offline colors on the New York-Washington haul...perhaps they suggested far away vacation desinations? (via PRR to start, of course). Just my reaction, can certainly study it closer if it seems important. Barry Peltier ----------------- Rich O had written: The above is taken from Pennsy Journal Vol 2 No 1 and 2. Several questions arise from this information. Since most of these cars are in pool service with ACL, Sou and SAL, how were they painted -- PRR or the livery of the southern roads with PRR reporting marks? Were the assigned cars the only ones in PRR paint? Were the cars interchanged with the New Haven in PRR or NH livery? Since there is not reverse routing, how do the cars get to Cleveland to originate on the east bound Clevelander? Rich Orr ------------------------- bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:09:10 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0ede1df646dd67d8e59049a6f84cee9c Barry: There may be errors in the information but it is purported to be a reprint of "Make-up of Trains, New York Division, No. 19 In effect 2:00 AM Sunday, April 29, 1950" It is in two parts those trains originating in New York and those terminating in New York. The Clevelander/Akronite is shown as a joint train east bound and a separate west bound Clevelander (note the Akronite terminated in Pittsburgh) with the following make-up. West bound #39 MS60 to Harrisburg MS60 to Pittsburgh MS60 to Pittsburgh (Sat only) B60 to Pittsburgh (Sat only) BM70M to Pittsburgh except Sun P70 to Harrisburg (Sun only) PB70 to Cleveland P70-KR-RC to Cleveland SL 12-1 to Cleveland SL 21 roomette to Cleveland SLlg 6DBR bar to Cleveland Dinner lg to Cleveland SL 6sec. 6DBL to Cleveland SL 10-5 to Cleveland (pick up 3 sleepers at Harrisburg Wash. to Cleveland from #539 East bound Clevelander/Akronite PB70 scheme 4 from Cleveland P70 KR from Cleveland SL 12-1 from Cleveland SL 21 Roomette from Cleveland SL Lge 6DBR Bar from Cleveland Diner-lounge from Cleveland PB85-BR from Akron SL 12Dup SR 5 DBR from Akron via train 10 at Pittsburgh DL-Lge 3 DBR 1DR Bar from Akron via train 10 at Pittsburgh SL 10 roomette 5DBR from Akron via train 10 at Pittsburgh SL 12-1 from Akron via train 10 at Pittsburgh Sl 10Sec 3DBR from Williamsport via train 574 at Harrisburg (Exc. Sun.) Sl 10 roomette 6DBR from Roanoke via train 638 at Harrisburg SL 10-1-1 from Roanoake via train 638 at Harrisburg (exc. Sun) Remember these are arriving and departing NY consists. The Clevelander and Akronite were separate trains west of Pittsburgh. The Akronite terminated in Pittsburgh and its cars continuing on to New York were forwarded east of Pittsburgh as part of the Clevelander. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:23:55 -0600 (CST) From: harperd@tamug.tamu.edu (Don Harper) Subject: [PRR] PRR: Keystone and car rescue efforts X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 00e61ace849db695515079b8c803378c I received my Keystone yesterday. There is a short blurb on the first page about the ice breaker car that the Society purchased. They are still some $850 worth of donations away from recovering the full cost of purchase. The blurb further states that no more rescues of this type will be undertaken. This really disturbs me. Jerry, how many members are there on this listserver - 350 +/-? If each of us contributes only $3.00 the car will be paid off and the Society will be in more of a mood to try to rescue other cars. I will be sending a contribution of $25 in tomorrow's mail. We only need about 40 members to pony up that amount to pay off the car. Remember gang. This group has made a lot of noise about how the old guard won't listen to new ideas, and shuts the newbies out, etc., etc. Also remember the old guard is the group that has contributed blood, sweat, tears, and money to make the Society work. If you (the group) wants to be taken seriously, few things talk louder than money or time contributed. 'Nuff said! Don Harper Texas A&M Marine Lab 5007 Avenue U Galveston, TX 77551 409/740-4540 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:24:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7465918b4be5e369870bdbea844d8ec3 Rich, the Clevelander and Akronite could very well be combined east of Pittsburgh, butI I was mainly referring to the sleeping car line. I still think their cleveland-Roanoke car is actually a Roanoke-NY car off 638. I think they have 638 and 38 crossed up, as the Clevelander doesn;t show such a car and the Cumberland Valley route does. What's your Official Guide say? Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 19:17:45 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] FP7 antenna set X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d03bcda822a744a5a321279853170ede Carl and the list, As far as your decal phobia, don't be afraid (admittedly, I love decalling; it's like icing a cake)! I've used Champ's set EH378 (dulux gold) on about half a dozen PRR cab units. It's perfect for the Tuscan red scheme, and Champ decals are quite durable and respond well to Solvaset. The set isn't appropriate for units painted DGLE, but I use it anyway (my Lifelike E7 is painted in the 5901's delivery scheme) because I find that the bronze gold set (EH78P) washes out on the blackish shells. Finish your engine! It will look great once decalled. Doug Newbeach wrote: > I did this project a couple of years ago and, I am sad to say, it > has lain fallow since I finished detailing the shell. I also wanted the > five-stripe tuscan scheme, but have been totally intimidated by the > thought of trying to put a set of five-stripe decals on it. I hope > yours turns out well. Sorry to be so long-winded! > > Regards, > > Carl ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 19:29:23 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d05270e79bdf608d74f5672b6ad07a17 Dick, Thanks for the information! I'll be buying Schuylkill Division's number plate, builders' plates, for H6sb 2846 and the tender badge plates for an E6s (70P66) to get things right. My Lambert model has what looks like that snow melter pipe coming out of the left side of the steam dome (why it is still hand reversed is unclear to me; my single biggest modification will be to add the power reverse and pilot air tank). One of the reasons I like to model the engines at the RR Museum of PA is that I spent many happy childhood days in the indoor museum and the yard; the engines there are like old friends. Also, one of the best defenses against nitpickers is to have them show me their model! One of the other things I like to keep reminding myself is that everyone has a level of detail that they're comfortable with; I work a lot on boiler details, but I don't add brake gear as I find that my clumsy fingers can't keep it from interfering with the running gear. Doug VVA249@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: > > << The tender badge plate is a nice touch, but the 2846 has a tender from an > E6s, > > The tender still has a badge plate - decal in "2846" on the blank part, lower > right hand side, as the current assignment. One other factor which you might > want to consider before calling your H-6 "2846" - the Strasburg loco. If you > have nit picky friends modeling a saved loco isn't always the best thing, > unless you plan to be very accurate. > NOTE that the museum loco has an unusual detail: a 4 - 6" steam line running > off the fireman's side of the steam dome the length of the boiler, then > ducking down under the pilot, about where the boiler meets the smoke box. > There is a big "globe" valve and a "reach rod" back into the cab - this steam > line branched into two nozzles - and was used for melting ice out of switch > points - probably why the loco lasted long enough - and in good enough > condition - to be preserved > Dick Ross > Cleveland > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:03:13 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] I1sa engines in New Jersey X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dbae65f116c86d8b7ed06b23b8b01a2e Hello list, According to Carleton's Pennsy Steam: A to T (page 87), I1sa engines were assigned to the South Amboy ore docks until about 1952. There is a photo of I1sa 4540 dated February 1952 on that page. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Carleton is much more reliable than, say, Staufer and Pennypacker, but I just want to make sure I don't have another era change in the works. I'm currently set in 1948-52, so I should be okay. Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:10:39 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b85919495de096c2a1bf8b93f47eb209 Hello list, Have any of you received any of the Athearn PRR and B&O mikados (I know the B&O is off topic, but not completely so as B&O and PRR were intertwined interchangewise in NJ and elsewhere)? I have seen many announced new products be very late (Bachmann used to be infamous for this; witness their early run K4s engines), but I'm dissappointed that usually reliable Athearn is this late. It also appears that the initial run of the engines will not be rerun; if this is true, Athearn deserves to lose sales. I am considering cancelling my order and substituting a single Bowser USRA light mike (assuming I can still acquire the Alco Products repower kits; ARRGGHHH!!!!). Now, back to my I1sa! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:10:59 -0500 Subject: [CYBER] Re: [PRR] PRR: Keystone and car rescue efforts From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8cf7521400519536d108377b3a138ccc On 12/8/99 7:23 PM, Don Harper at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > I received my Keystone yesterday. There is a short blurb on the first page > about the ice breaker car that the Society purchased. They are still some > $850 worth of donations away from recovering the full cost of purchase. The > blurb further states that no more rescues of this type will be undertaken. > This really disturbs me. Jerry, how many members are there on this listserver > - 350 +/-? If each of us contributes only $3.00 the car will be paid off and > the Society will be in more of a mood to try to rescue other cars. I will be > sending a contribution of $25 in tomorrow's mail. We only need about 40 > members to pony up that amount to pay off the car. > > Remember gang. This group has made a lot of noise about how the old guard > won't listen to new ideas, and shuts the newbies out, etc., etc. Also > remember the old guard is the group that has contributed blood, sweat, tears, > and money to make the Society work. If you (the group) wants to be taken > seriously, few things talk louder than money or time contributed. I saw the blurb also, and it's good to see some response! However, might I ask that you direct your efforts to the Cyber Division. The CD is a chapter-wanna-be of the society, and one of its goals is preservation. The ice breaker car might be a perfect opportunity for the new CD to strut its stuff by stepping up to the plate and coming up with the difference. So, join the CD and send in an extra donation, I'd say! http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:10:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR: Keystone and car rescue efforts From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fd1749adc55fcc67f3dbcd9d935a31f2 On 12/8/99 7:23 PM, Don Harper at (harperd@tamug.tamu.edu) wrote: > I received my Keystone yesterday. There is a short blurb on the first page > about the ice breaker car that the Society purchased. They are still some > $850 worth of donations away from recovering the full cost of purchase. The > blurb further states that no more rescues of this type will be undertaken. > This really disturbs me. Jerry, how many members are there on this listserver > - 350 +/-? If each of us contributes only $3.00 the car will be paid off and > the Society will be in more of a mood to try to rescue other cars. I will be > sending a contribution of $25 in tomorrow's mail. We only need about 40 > members to pony up that amount to pay off the car. > > Remember gang. This group has made a lot of noise about how the old guard > won't listen to new ideas, and shuts the newbies out, etc., etc. Also > remember the old guard is the group that has contributed blood, sweat, tears, > and money to make the Society work. If you (the group) wants to be taken > seriously, few things talk louder than money or time contributed. I saw the blurb also, and it's good to see some response! However, might I ask that you direct your efforts to the Cyber Division. The CD is a chapter-wanna-be of the society, and one of its goals is preservation. The ice breaker car might be a perfect opportunity for the new CD to strut its stuff by stepping up to the plate and coming up with the difference. So, join the CD and send in an extra donation, I'd say! http://prrths-cc.pennsyrr.com Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Steam Engine Smoke Box Markings Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 21:13:34 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 990ed0cb1f289ec5d9ce096ebcee2acd I have seen several pictures of steam engines with the front smoke box covers decorated with a large star. Some have been painted on, some appear to be a more temporary type of decoration. I have one such photo for the E&P book. What does this star signify? Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] RE: car rescue Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:11:10 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8cae635e1f1b14783e9e515508bea8ce You can count me in on contributing Don! I will match your $40.00 as soon as I get my keystone. I believe this list can generate the moneys needed. Perhaps this is a chance to show our worth. I mentioned on this list once before my surprise at the lack of willingness to contribute to preservation of what is left of the pennsy. I got badly flamed for this by a couple members. It still amazes me that so many people will spend hundreds to thousands of dollars for models, but will not spend a few bucks towards preservation. However I think many just let the opportunity slip by or feel their contribution will not be much. As you have shown Don just three dollars per member will get the job done. When I was back home, Pennsylvania, in October, I finally found the X23 that we were trying to get sent to Strasbourg. I was surprised at how good a condition it was in still. It sits right next to the mainline. I also know where an X29 sets. One member on this list said, the K4 was not worth restoring to operational condition. He went on to make suggestion that the M1 would be a better candidate. He also spoke of how in England engines were being built from scratch. Well those aren't realistic options. Lets deal with what we have a real opportunity to preserve. I am not interested in debating this issue. If anyone on this list is interested in real preservation efforts, even if it is just a few dollars here and there, please contact me off list at GAS@fastinet.net. Maybe we can make a difference!!! Greg Stone PRRTHS member #1703 special interest in Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 21:38:09 EST Subject: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fec9225262116def60831bbe3b00b469 Jerry, Earlier you wrote, amoung other things: "asked branchline about future offerings. Here's the good news: > Yes... we have already made decisions on what will eventually be the next > five choices of heavyweights, but that information is not yet ready for > public release. That should give us a total of eight different cars in a high-quality kit! > > We agree that Pennsy fans would enjoy the cars you mentioned. I mentioned the 28-1 Parlor, the 14 section, and the 6-6. Hopefully they'll nail down one or more of these!" ---------- I'll be champing at the bit to learn what these other 5 cars are, but I just can't resist a wish list. Suppose we can expect a 12s-1, but how about the 6-6, 8-5 and 8section-lounge? Any of them would have good general appeal, but the lounge car would really be a boon, as it's much tougher to kitbash with those end windows, and was a car that ran coast to coast on various lines. Pennsy was a big user, probably the biggest. and they ran on the Buffalo trains, the Southland, in Pittsburgh-Springfeild service, the Akronite etc even well into the 1950's. B&O used them into the 1960's! A better passenger pro than me could probably tell us more, but I think the window conguration on the 14 section car was quite similar to the 28-1 parlor, perhaps close enough to serve as a good stand-in. Who knows, if this connects, Branchline may become the defacto standard, much as Walthers was in the 1950's-60's with their car series. Something to hope for. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 21:50:48 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7291e657a72530e5bd5420fd10c65521 Doug, I did pick up one of the B&O versions when they first came out. (Dare I say it...I'm as much a B&O fan as a Pennsy one..gulp). It's a very nice job, if a bit of a pain to plug in, so to speak. The same day I was comparing it to the Spectrum 4-8-2, also USRA, and while also quite nice, the Athearn detail seems sharper and better defined, especially regarding the tender. But the Q-3 (in B&O lingo) is by all means worth obtaining. If you have trouble finding one, my local guy has a couple still in stock, at $110 it seems. Be glad to send his email/phone numbers. I also get rather miffed at the limited availability of some products, and frankly can't understand it. If it really costs all that much for dies and molds wouldn't you want to sell as many as possible? Oh well, that's a whole different ball game. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] PRR BP-20 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 22:08:27 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a600b298641281bb2263c55b726e2b90 Hello list: Has anyone built the Miracle, BP-20 Shark A & B units? I am contemplating purchasing a set and wondered about construction difficulties. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:51:09 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] home for the holidays X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ca14dca65011021b74e143f474862efc Hello all, Had a brainstorm today which I would like to invite all of you to partake in. I was reading some of the recollections of oldtimers on other lists who talked about what passenger service was like during the holidays. This has me thinking about a topic called "Home for the Holidays", which would be a selection of these writings. If there are any old PRR passenger hands out there who would like to share your seasons reminiscences, I hope you will contact me. BTW: Psycho sends Seasons Greetings to all: http://www.thoseclassictrains.com/psycho.html All my best, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com history - technology - modeling - sources Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: [PRR] Pennsy S Models Website update Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:51:07 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e71c959dc13d0b95b74e14d53bc35f46 I am pleased to announce that the Pennsy S Models website has been updated to include a builders photo, pricing structure and a sample of the previously unavailable details that our X29 will have. Please visit www.pennsysmodels.com Thank You Bill Lane Pennsy S Models ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:16:11 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 05f78f70080c75a1fb73643406495305 --On Wed, Dec 8, 1999 8:10 PM -0600 "doug.kisala" wrote: > Have any of you received any of the Athearn PRR and B&O mikados ... ? > ... I'm dissappointed that usually reliable Athearn is this late. > I'm surprized to read this, as the Genesis Mikes have been in dealers' hands for about a month now. I think that made them a few months late, but when one is dealing with an overseas entity beyond the full legal sanctions of the U.S. (please, no WTO jokes), I think that's not a bad lag. I, myself, purchased my B&O unit at the GATS in Greensburg, PA in mid-November and there were at least two other dealers there who had them. Secondly, on the face of it, I can't agree with your judgement that Athearn deserves to lose sales if the rumor you perpetuate (that they do not intend to make a second helping of the current run) is true. Did Bachman or Life-Like re-release a batch of Spectrum or Proto 2000 engines with same road numbers? I don't know the answer to that, but would assume, since they come out with different road names, paint schemes, or numbers, they don't re-release, either. That's the manufacturer's choice, based on marketing, unit-cost projections, and their judgment of the viabiltiy of continuing an international partnership. Perhaps the experience in dealing with Samhongsa, who I'm told did the final assembly of parts and castings mostly, if not completely, manufactured in the U.S. was sufficiently frustrating to give Athearn pause for continued relations between the two. If you are ordering your's thru a dealer, perhaps there are other issues (between dealer, his middleman, and Athearn) that aren't readily apparent. In my own experience, I've noticed that some dealers are consistently able to get mail order stuff in within 7 - 10 days, while others seem always to wait several weeks for the same things from the same supplier. Insiders have told me that timely payment on invoices has something to do with it. 'best, Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:31:32 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR BP-20 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd9eba9e03d3ef36f97c9af9461e699c I built one to mate with my scratch-built BP20. It is such a lovely model that I am now upgrading my scratch-built one so that it doesn't look so bad back to back with the MC model. BTW my scratch built one was good enough to win a prize at an NMRA convention 30 years ago. I found the construction easy with two exceptions. Keeping the stirrups attached is a real challenge. They have a very small attachment area for the ACC to grab and the casting material is brittle in such very small cross section. I have had to brace them and replace them several times. I wish that brass replacements were available. The second problem is more of an improvement. MC provides a see-thru roof walk casting for the top of the fan housing. I replaced mine whit a short length of Plano roofwalk. BTW I am now building an A-B-A set of FM Erie-builts and am just as satisfied. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== lew matt wrote: > > Hello list: > > Has anyone built the Miracle, BP-20 Shark A & B units? I am contemplating > purchasing a set and wondered about construction difficulties. > > Lew Matt > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:42:45 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Future Branchline Trains Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ee58996c36c0edd83ba7e392e6256ecd I believe the 10-2-1 Knoxville sleeper on #125 was the rare version modeled by Bachmann. I researched this a few years ago when B first same out with their cars. I was searching for a prototypical circumstance to operate one of those cars on the corridor. I don't recall where I picked up that tidbit, but it may have been from the appendix in NIGHT TRAINS. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote: > > As of April 29, 1950, the following 10-1-2 assignments were in effect: > > Westward trains > > # 37 Iron City Express 1 car to Birmingham AL > # 67 Jeffersonian 1 car > #103 The Edison 1 car > #111 The Legislator 2 cars on Monday 1 car on Wed. & Fri. > #125 The Executive aka Birmingham Special 2 cars (1 to Birmingham, AL and on > to Knoxville, TN) > #129 The Potomac 2 cars (1 to Savannah Ga. 1 to Augusta, GA both via ACL) > #139 Peach Queen aka Pelican 4 cars (1 to Shreveport, LA, 2 to Charlotte, > NC, ! to Atlanta, GA all via Southern) > #141 6 cars (1 to Tampa, FL via ACL; 1 to Fort Meyers, FL via ACL; 1 to > Wilmington, NC via ACL; 1 to New Orleans via Sou; 1 to Mobile, AL via Sou; 1 > to Charlotte, NC via Sou) > #143 1 car (Miami via SAL) > #149 The Crescent 2 cars (1 to Asheville, NC and 1 to Augusta, GA both via > Sou) > #169 The Washingtonian 1 car > #185 2 cars from New Haven deadhead back to New Haven pre and post tourist > season > #185 The Bar Harbor 6 cars tourist season > > Eastward trains > > #38 The Cleveland/Akronite 1 car to Roanoke VA > #108 The Piedmont Ltd 4 cars (1 from Charlotte, 1 from New Orleans, 1 from > Mobile, 1 from Birmingham all via Sou) > #110 The Havana Special 2 cars (1 from Fort Meyers, 1 from Wilmington both > via ACL) > #118 The Crescent 3 cars (1 from Augusta, 1 from Charlotte, 1 from Asheville > all via Sou) > #122 The Palmetto/Pelican 4 cars (1 from Atlanta via Sou; 1 from Shreveport > via Sou; 1 from Savannah via ACL; 1 from Augusta via ACL) > #132 The Representative 2 cars (1 from Knoxville; 1 from Birmingham both via > Sou) > #168 1 car from Wash. to Hyanis. MA > #184 Bar Harbor pre and post season 2 cars > #184 Bar Harbor during tourist season 6 cars all originating in Phila. > > Car assignments > train #37 Lake Bruin, Lake Constance, Lake Girard, Lake Bernard > train #67 Lake Bennett, Lake Felicity, Lake Charm > > The above is taken from Pennsy Journal Vol 2 No 1 and 2. > > Several questions arise from this information. > > Since most of these cars are in pool service with ACL, Sou and SAL, how were > they painted -- PRR or the livery of the southern roads with PRR reporting > marks? > > Were the assigned cars the only ones in PRR paint? > > Were the cars interchanged with the New Haven in PRR or NH livery? > > Since there is not reverse routing, how do the cars get to Cleveland to > originate on the east bound Clevelander? > > Rich Orr > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:45:36 -0800 Subject: Re: [PRR] REA X-29 vs. MS-60 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0caacbc92e897562b7eb8a5982406198 Hi Jerry & list members, > However, many indicate MS-60, for "mail storage". If I recall, an "MS-60" > was really any B-60, R-? or X-? as available. Where did you get this info from? My understanding has always been that an MS-60 was a B-60 equipped to carry mail. It had no facilities for a massenger (ie no desk, toilet, drinking water, and possibly no lites and possibly few ventilators). Also, important from a modeling perspective, it is my understanding that messenger-equipped B-60 cars never rode on tender trucks, while some MS-60 cars were equipped with Keisel tender trucks. > My question is, does an X-29 qualify as an MS-60 or was it another class of > box car? I think a X-29 is a X-29, it is never an MS-60. Even if the X-29 is used to carry mail. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:00:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bb7df4418e72d032dabdab4bf4dc76cd On 12/9/99 9:16 AM, vck@andrew.cmu.edu (vck@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > If you are ordering your's thru a dealer, perhaps there are other issues > (between dealer, his middleman, and Athearn) that aren't readily apparent. > In my own experience, I've noticed that some dealers are consistently able > to get mail order stuff in within 7 - 10 days, while others seem always to > wait several weeks for the same things from the same supplier. Insiders > have told me that timely payment on invoices has something to do with it. First, let me tell you how dealers order stuff. Most model railroad manufacturers, though they might offer direct sales to dealers, do not. They funnel their product through distributors. The dealer then buys from one or more distributors, each of whom may provide 40-100 brands. Often there is overlap, where multiple distributors handle the same brands. They each have minimum order levels. Though not very high, it may cause a dealer to combine an order of one thing with another and send it to a secondary distributor because one of the brands is exclusive to them. Perhaps this distributor does not have as a high a stock level on the other product as the primary distributor may maintain. This can lead to delays...and it often takes several days for a distributor to get back to the dealer that the product is out of stock. The dealer must then go to another distributor. Another factor is that some distributors handle backorders differently than others. I dropped my first distributor when I learned that their backorder tracking system was an index card file!!! Not to mention names, but I send all of my advance reservations through one distributor, if they handle the brand, because they seem to be on top of the situation via their computer. I always seem to get my Stewart, P2K, and other "big" brands quickly as soon as the product is released. Some manufacturers, like Red Caboose and Digitrax, only deal direct. Digitrax has long lead times on all of their products because they do not have enough manufacturing capacity. Red Caboose announces their runs so far in advance it seems like vaporware. I don't think "timely payment on invoices" has much to do with it. I pay all my invoices within the discount period (10 days) and still have wide variances in acquiring equipment from one distributor to another. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bill Lane Subject: RE: [PRR] REA X-29 vs. MS-60 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:52:05 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3030a3a1a97b9d786175c7242337920 List, You may want to check the book on Railway Express published about 5 years ago by my friend Vic Roseman. Tahnks Bill -----Original Message----- From: Claus Schlund [SMTP:schlund@cwnet.com] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 9:46 AM To: Jerry Britton Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] REA X-29 vs. MS-60 Hi Jerry & list members, > However, many indicate MS-60, for "mail storage". If I recall, an "MS-60" > was really any B-60, R-? or X-? as available. Where did you get this info from? My understanding has always been that an MS-60 was a B-60 equipped to carry mail. It had no facilities for a massenger (ie no desk, toilet, drinking water, and possibly no lites and possibly few ventilators). Also, important from a modeling perspective, it is my understanding that messenger-equipped B-60 cars never rode on tender trucks, while some MS-60 cars were equipped with Keisel tender trucks. > My question is, does an X-29 qualify as an MS-60 or was it another class of > box car? I think a X-29 is a X-29, it is never an MS-60. Even if the X-29 is used to carry mail. - Claus ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Claus Schlund" Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:05:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [CYBER] Re: [PRR] PRR: Keystone and car rescue efforts X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9c0282c4e79f6845429e0e5ab8949c58 Hi Jerry & Cyber list members, I think Jerry's proposal is an excellent one. This would allow the CD to be the major vehicle in expediting this funding effort without entirely wiping out the treasury. Assuming this goes thru, I'm good for $20.00 on this. - Claus > On 12/9/99 7:28 AM, David "Fresh" Freshwater (dfresh20@erols.com) wrote: > > > When I saw the blurb in the Keystone, my first thought was that this would be > > an > > excellent Cyber Division project. It doesn't appear to be that much money. > > If we > > were successful in raising the remaining funds necessary, this would certainly > > raise > > the profile. (And show what good a little advertising does too! Did anyone > > ever > > hear of this project before the Keystone came out?) > > > > If the CD is going to take this on, where do we send the money? > > $800 would kill our initial treasury. Yet, this IS what we are all about. > > Might I suggest: > > 1. An officer contact the PRRT&HS treasurer and verify that the equipment > has already been secured and that they are just "in the hole" for the > balance. Also indicate the intentions of the Cyber Division to make up the > difference as long as credit is given. This should not be a cause for > argument on their part. > > 2. Post on the Cyber-Talk list and the PRR-Talk list that the CD treasury > will match dollar-for-dollar all donations up to $400. That will yeild the > requisite funds yet maintain a balance in our treasury. > > What do you think? > --------------------------------------------------------- > Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com > Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. > "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" > http://kc.pennsyrr.com > "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products > http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This list ("Cyber-Talk") is for discussion of Cyber Chapter (PRRT&HS) > business only. All general modeling and/or Pennsy discussion should > take place on "PRR-Talk". For assistance with this list, send the > message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:18:16 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] REA X-29 vs. MS-60 From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 409e909e28bbf2879c31635d4675a4d4 On 12/9/99 9:52 AM, Bill Lane (BLane@wilmar.com) wrote: > You may want to check the book on Railway Express published about 5 years > ago by my friend Vic Roseman. > If that was the one published by Highlands Station, it is a decent book, but does not get very railroad-specific. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:40:17 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b83dd8e5e8f35591c4e4bcc45888f6d4 --On Thu, Dec 9, 1999 10:00 AM -0500 "Jerry Britton" wrote: > I don't think "timely payment on invoices" has much to do with it. Other dealers do. Fair enough. The point is: Athearn's engines are out there, the delay now seems to depend on where one is standing in the line and in which line one is standing. Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Kollar, Kris" Subject: [PRR] New GG1 Book Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:56:28 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6450666d1b3eb5846a10fbbbee4c05d8 I have it on good authority that a new book on the GG1 is in the works and will most likely be out in the spring. Jeremy Plant, author of, PRR, Standard Railroad of the World, and a slew of other railroad specific books is working on it now. Don't know anything of the format yet. I spoke with his wife in the grocery store last evening and she stated he acquired the collection of an 80 year old PRR veteran and photographer. As I hear more I'll pass it on to those fans of PRR under the wires. kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:12:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] New GG1 Book From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8bcb2b8770ceb5d0eae87b78e876b41d On 12/9/99 10:56 AM, Kollar, Kris (kris.kollar@paharr.ang.af.mil) wrote: > I have it on good authority that a new book on the GG1 is in the works and > will most likely be out in the spring. Jeremy Plant, author of, PRR, > Standard Railroad of the World, and a slew of other railroad specific books > is working on it now. Don't know anything of the format yet. I spoke with > his wife in the grocery store last evening and she stated he acquired the > collection of an 80 year old PRR veteran and photographer. As I hear more > I'll pass it on to those fans of PRR under the wires. Any idea who the publisher will be? Related: In the classifieds of the new issue of the Keystone is a request for photos and such by the author of "Black Coal, Black Diamonds" (or whatever it was) for use in Volume II, which covers the late 1940's to 1953. (Guess I really need Volume III!) --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:16:11 -0500 From: Drew McGhee Subject: [PRR] Railfest 2000 Dates X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bbb269c0984b2ff622870844e731b414 Greetings to the group, According to my membership newsletter, the Railroaders Memorial Museum (Altoona, PA) has scheduled Railfest 2000 for October 7th and 8th, 2000. Thought you might want to know. Remember to mark your calendars or Palm Pilots. Drew R. McGhee Altoona, PA drm6@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/staff/d/r/drm6/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:20:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] New GG1 Book X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fc34e4deb0aafef3aa1563c34d54131a > Related: In the classifieds of the new issue of the Keystone is a request > for photos and such by the author of "Black Coal, Black Diamonds" (or > whatever it was) for use in Volume II, which covers the late 1940's to 1953. > (Guess I really need Volume III!) Black Gold, Black Diamonds. Eric Hirsimaki. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] X42 mail storage cars From: Fred G Rea Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:51:15 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2973ac082944adfbd19e33866e2f1ebd I really like the X42 as pictured in the recent Keystone (Winter 199, Vol 32 No 14, pages 12 &13). A few questions for the list, with my apologies if this info has already been discussed. Where and how long did these cars operate? How long were they (I am guessing 60')? I am thinking of building a couple by kit bashing some 40 ft box cars. Question is, what are those trucks and are they, or any thing close, available in HO? The next questions does not relate to these cars. I seem to remember some headend cars, freight and baggage style, had a buffer equivalent to the "floor" in a diaphragm. Is my vague memory correct? If so, what cars where these on? Thanks Fred Rea ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 13:16:20 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 mail storage cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3f625b7b87f784e02a3e981fdb44a829 I think the Athearn express reefer trucks are close. The buffers were on X29's in REA service. The Red Caboose X29 lettered REA has extra parts for this. CalScale makes an express reefer set of parts which include them. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Fred G Rea wrote: > > I really like the X42 as pictured in the recent Keystone (Winter 199, Vol > 32 No 14, pages 12 &13). > > A few questions for the list, with my apologies if this info has already > been discussed. > > Where and how long did these cars operate? > > How long were they (I am guessing 60')? > > I am thinking of building a couple by kit bashing some 40 ft box cars. > Question is, what are those trucks and are they, or any thing close, > available in HO? > > The next questions does not relate to these cars. I seem to remember > some headend cars, freight and baggage style, had a buffer equivalent to > the "floor" in a diaphragm. Is my vague memory correct? If so, what cars > where these on? > > Thanks > > Fred Rea ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:00:08 EST Subject: [PRR] yard office X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b02bddaefd11e4a027119a2c8094efee Where would a typical yard office be located? I'm not sure if I'm going to build an actual building or use an old box car. But, I have no idea where it should be placed. Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:41:31 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] H6sb engines surviving into the 50s X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8098a189f7d097ca80c4678e53d7f116 Hello list, I've been doing some H6sb research. I was curious how many other H6sb engines survived into the 50s besides the 2846. Sadly, the list is pretty short. I pored through Edson's PRR All-time Steam roster to find it. 2846 Edson merely lists her as preserved; I believe that she last ran in 1955, but I can't back this up 2898 ss 4/50 2941 ss 4/57 3061 (2nd) ss 1/51 9080 (renumbered 3/49 9979) dr 5/52 9091 (renumbered 3/49 9988) dr 1/53 Some of the B&O E24a engines (more or less equivalent to the H6sb, but less attractive due to more piping) were not retired until 1955, and some of the B&O L1 engines (converted from E24a engines in the 20s) were not retired until 1958. So, both Pennsy and B&O got their money's worth from these engines, and then some. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:07:43 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: de0e2b6074213ab50a45deffb1aa7cba "doug.kisala" wrote: > Dick, > > H6sb 2846 definitely has a power reverse on the right hand side. As to when it > was added, that's a good question. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that > it was probably during the early 1940s that some H6sb engines began to get power > reverses. > > Here's my reasoning. There aren't many photos of modernized H6sb engines > around. Some H6sb engines scrapped in the late 40s still had hand reverse (H6sb > 1 is one example). There were many H8s (and subclasses), H9s, and H10s engines > in the 30s running with hand reverse. I'm thinking that if PRR was logical > (perhaps an oxymoron, but more so in the diesel era when they purchased one of > everything), they'd put their scarce capital into the more modern consolidations > because they were more numerous and more powerful. > > As far as the ice melting pipe, I'll also guess that it was added during the late > 40s, when steam engines became progressively less valuable for tractive power > during the transition to diesel power. > > Sorry I can't be of more exact help; good shots of H6sb engines in the 30s seem > to be quite rare (compared with the by-then more numerous H8s/H9s/H10s classes), > and wartime shots seem to be even rarer. > > Doug > > VVA249@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 12/8/99 8:37:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > doug.kisala@mciworld.com writes: > > > > << (why it is still hand reversed is unclear to me; my single biggest > > modification will be to add the power reverse and pilot air tank) >> > > > > Is the museum loco power reverse? I didn't notice - I had just received my > > Sunset "O" scale H-6sb - numbered for the museum loco, and bought the correct > > number builders and tender plates for it - went to the museum and the helpful > > "docent" pointed out the "ice melter" feature, which, of course mine doesn't > > have. Since mine is a factory painted version I guess I have three options: > > 1) add the steam pipe 2) ignore the problem (the museum has very good > > "provenance" with it's equipment wonder if they had a date when this feature > > was added - since I model 1940's I could say "oh that was later") 3) a > > renumbering - to a Lines West (7000 - 8000 - 9000 series) I'm to a > > renumbering - my Westside ones both have documented Lines West numbers - used > > in the Alliance Akron Cleveland area > > Dick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:18:10 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] The Business world, related to the PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1d8b8a19dee6b060e542d4f585274fd9 Hello list, Thanks to all of you with your business perspectives on the slowness of the Athearn mikes to come to market! I was just visiting D&S Hobbies' web page (www.onerrave.com). They have an excellent section on new, upcoming, and future products. The following is a direct quote from that site regarding the Athearn mines. "No additional production of the initial road names is planned at this time." If that just mean that a change of road numbers, I can live with that easily. If it means no more of the initial road names, my frustration stands (though based on some of your experiences, my engines may be nearer than I'd hoped). I was also checking Walthers' web site, hoping to find the Accurate Lighting Bowser repower kits (they look just like, and probably are, identical to the Alco Products repower kits). Some are in stock (for the M1/M1a, Northern), but others are not (for the H9s/E6s). For those of us with Bowser steamers, life may get a little more challenging until somebody (I strongly hope) buys Alco Products. If I did not have enormous graduate school loans, I'd consider it myself! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 mail storage cars Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:37:51 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a6d04233ce69631dcd935397caef5e18 Dear friends of the PRR: Several weeks ago I requested info from anyone on the roof style or construction for the X-42. That is the only detail I am not sure of as I want to make scale drawings suitable for publication so I can build this car. Someone on the list said that RMC just published the drawings for the X-42, but I have been unable to find what issue it is in. I have the original PRR prints for everything except the roof. Can someone direct me to the correct magazine or else direct me to someone with a copy of the PRR print for the roof? (please :-) Thanks in advance. BTW, there is no truck on the market like this X-42 truck. I'm searching for a commercial truck that can be kitbashed to achieve a look like it. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Miller To: Fred G Rea Cc: PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; Garrett.Rea@worldnet.att.net Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] X42 mail storage cars >I think the Athearn express reefer trucks are close. >The buffers were on X29's in REA service. The Red Caboose X29 lettered >REA has extra parts for this. CalScale makes an express reefer set of >parts which include them. > >Regards, > >Andy Miller >asmiller@mitre.org > >=================================================== >Fred G Rea wrote: >> >> I really like the X42 as pictured in the recent Keystone (Winter 199, Vol >> 32 No 14, pages 12 &13). >> >> A few questions for the list, with my apologies if this info has already >> been discussed. >> >> Where and how long did these cars operate? >> >> How long were they (I am guessing 60')? >> >> I am thinking of building a couple by kit bashing some 40 ft box cars. >> Question is, what are those trucks and are they, or any thing close, >> available in HO? >> >> The next questions does not relate to these cars. I seem to remember >> some headend cars, freight and baggage style, had a buffer equivalent to >> the "floor" in a diaphragm. Is my vague memory correct? If so, what cars >> where these on? >> >> Thanks >> >> Fred Rea > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:58:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 487a22922700a6ae311ed99e49c93144 Doug, I just took a quick look at my photo collection and found some info on the H6sb. The earliest photo I have which shows a H6sb with power reverse is 1941 and the loco # is 6540. Interesting is the #6540 shows up again in a 1942 photo without the airtank on the pilot. hmm! I also found #6303 in 1944 with power reverse. I have more that show the power reverse in the late 40's. All the 1930's pics show the hand thrown lever. So I believe the change over to power reverse on the H6sb class occured in the 1940 time period. Just thought you would want to know...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 07:26:38 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger X-29 cannot cover an MS-60 slot? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c21b2c54b2f37250af913121202f7433 In a message dated 12/8/99 1:46:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << My question is, does an X-29 qualify as an MS-60 or was it another class of box car? >> Jerry, I've always interpreted MS-60 to mean a 60' mail storage space. I believe it's well established that the Post Office normally paid the railroads for RPO space in 15, 30, 45, or 60-foot increments. The origin of this practice is hidden in the mists of antiquity (to me, anyway), but the result of this hardnosed policy resulted, for example, in the PRR conversion of rather early 70-foot-interior steel postal cars (M70's of various subclasses) into BM70's with a 60-foot RPO apartment and a 10-foot section that could be used separately for baggage, express, or whatever. On other roads, lots of RPO's were built new in the 60' interior length. Moving away from Railway Post Office cars, if the same "standard purchasing" logic held on non-RPO space purchasing by the Post Office, then there was plenty of incentive for railroads to supply 60-foot full baggage cars for both "storage mail" (through traffic cars) and "working mail" (sealed bags but handled on and off at intermediate stations). I don't think it's just chance that so many "baggage cars" on so many roads were 60' long inside. By this logic, the "passenger" X29 is tall enough inside to be a postal car, but only 40'6" inside. By the same logic, lots of other box cars and refrigerator equipment were also ineligible to cover the MS-60 slots because they weren't long enough. This would include PRR R50B's, REA express reefers, 40- or 50-foot freight reefers a'la PFE or FGE, and all that headend equipment converted from troop sleepers. The MS-60 listing in the "regular" train consists leads me to assume the MS-60's were regularly scheduled contract space, like running every day on that train. I assume some of the MS-60 spaces were contracted to the Post Office, and it's possible others may have been contracted to Railway Express. And although the X-29's couldn't offer the required floor space for an MS-60 slot, a wide variety of PRR and offroad baggage cars would; that would be the reason the symbol "MS-60" is used instead of specifying some particular class of PRR car as is done almost everywhere else in the consist lists. _________________________________________________________ Documentation note: You will notice, that, although I strongly suspect the above to be true, my reasoning is totally induced from observation, not from knowledge of the space rental contracts. I'd appreciate any documentation that might confirm or alter the above collection of assumptions. Thanks guys.... ____________________________________________________________ What the above means to those of us modeling prototype passenger trains on the PRR or its connections is that we need B60's and the 60' baggage cars of other roads in some quantity. The mix of foreign roads' cars is negotiable, but in the east NH seemed to be common; out on Lines West the photo evidence leans toward AT&SF, UP, and MP baggages (yes, even on St. Louis trains). Just one more bit of fun... ___________________________________________________________ And yet, Jerry continues <> My problem with getting closure here is that the logic "writes out" the X-29. However, consist pictures, and consist-lists-by number, tell a different story and say the X-29 was around in abundance. We "know" the express X-29's were converted on the railroad to solve a baggage-car shortage. So one of two things must be true: 1. X-29's represent express traffic, not storage mail. Maybe it's significant that all the pre-1954 lettering featured "Railway Express Agency". In other words, the X-29's may have protected traffic above and beyond the MS-60 schedules. Or else.. 2. Three X-29's can substitute for two MS-60's (same floor area). In the meantime, Jerry, I wouldn't stay up nights worrying about this one. Lots of pictures between 1954 and 1968 show strong concentrations of X-29's on the headends of PRR first class trains. And the solid mail trains have even more X-29's. BTW, I strongly believe the X-29 was a valuable part of Pennsy's express capacity right to the end, or there wouldn't have been so many of them left standing on the property in the 70's (i.e., after Amtrak). These 4-digit cars (still in PRR passenger numbering and paint) were found at every terminal, in good shape and serving as material storage cars. In fact, the thing to worry about is how to generate this traffic on the model railroad. Be glad you picked Harrisburg, a through point. Be glad you don't contemplate the headend switching between trains at Columbus OH (as I do), or (much worse) Pittsburgh. And enjoy building the kits! Til the next train out, Rick Tipton - Louisville KY Pennsylvania RR Columbus Div. 1968 (HO) Operating the Panhandle Route And Remembering PRR Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:26:04 +0100 From: Burkhard Sanner Subject: [PRR] New P2K steamer? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 53619e28fa76b3c61f6801bc4e70a277 Hi list, on a Canadian homepage http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/index.html I did find an announcement for a USRA 0-8-0 model. It seems the Mallet will not be the only steam loco P2K will produce! What was the PRR roster for these "shifters"? Regards Burkhard Sanner Lahnau, Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 08:49:35 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New P2K steamer? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: aee5d1ebd168f47ca475b359632ac4f2 In a message dated 12/10/1999 6:36:51 AM Central Standard Time, Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de writes: << I did find an announcement for a USRA 0-8-0 model. It seems the Mallet will not be the only steam loco P2K will produce! What was the PRR roster for these "shifters"? >> Zero, unfortunately. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] New P2K steamer? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:01:14 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 10e6d7adf7afcd57787fd9f817aa75c8 I have not seen any pictures of this USRA 0-8-0 yet, but would it be similar or identical to the 0-8-0 that Rivarossi came out with? Ted Andrews -----Original Message----- From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:50 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: Re: [PRR] New P2K steamer? In a message dated 12/10/1999 6:36:51 AM Central Standard Time, Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de writes: << I did find an announcement for a USRA 0-8-0 model. It seems the Mallet will not be the only steam loco P2K will produce! What was the PRR roster for these "shifters"? >> Zero, unfortunately. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:50:49 -0500 From: "James L. McDaniel" Subject: [PRR] Rockville Bridge X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2dfa1762826782ff4ce34daec8dcb207 The PRR's Rockville bridge is on the cover of the 2000 NorfolkSouthern calander...with many other PRR locations (often in Conrail colors) inside. These are available from NS for $10 at; NS Calendar Norfolk Southern Corp. 110 Franklin Road, S.E. Roanoke, VA 24024-0043 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:47:01 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] yard office X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 00ad5f4e27195ad4abe8caea390b4f4a Joe, I'm surprised no answers were posted on this one. Seems to me the most common yard office location was near or adjacent to the main lead, as that's where the action was concentrated. Switchlists were fabricated and communications concentrated in the office, but sometimes it would be located near a major industry served by the yard. In hump yards it was/is often near the hump. Generally the "dead" space formed by the lead is a good location for the office and the caboose/cabin track was often nearby as well. Hope this helps, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:06:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger X-29 cannot cover an MS-60 slot? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b815b0972cd421fff97caa72462c2020 Jerry, Rick and folks, Interesting question and answers. I would sure expect an MS-60 designated in the consist book to be a 60 foot car, but I beleive that's Pennsy policy more than a contract requirement. I recall a friend working at St.Paul Union Depot in the late 60's often unloaded cars from the "Min & Chic" route (Chicago-Minnepolis, but mostly handled at St.Paul), and the contracted space was sometimes peculiar. 120 feet could be made up of two 60 footers or a 70 and 50 or 3 40 footers. 70 foot cars were particularly prized for their great capacity, ala the horse car's ready conversion to express service, and roads like the Milwaukee had a majority of 'long' cars. I expect Pennsy was trying to be sensible and keep standardized on sizes. As regards RPO's: I'm well familar with 60, 30 and 15 foot 'apartments'(the official term..the RPO clerks I used to work with always called them sections or 'lengths'), but a 45 foot section? I certainly wouldn't say there is no such critter in one car, but I expect such a contract requirement would be met by a 15 and 30 foot combo. The 15 footers, by the way, were fairly common on roads with branchs and secondary routes; many of them ended up being converted to straight B.E. cars, looking somewhat like the 6 door horse car, especially in 70 foot lengths. Interesting stuff, anything to do with pasenger service. I've seen mailed moved in RPO's, bagg's, box express cars, express reefers, flexivans and, horrible as it may seem, a Rock Island baggage-coach-observation car! With the mail sacks in the coach section no less.(The old Kansas City Rocket would have nearly qualified for Penn Central service..it was that bad toward the end. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:33:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] yard office X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 60b982369de32e7cbfab3ca9b1635989 In a message dated 12/10/99 9:52:41 AM Central Standard Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << Seems to me the most common yard office location was near or adjacent to the main lead, as that's where the action was concentrated. >> True. At Butler (C&NW) in Milwaukee the lead, scale track, rip track setout, caboose track were nearby. Used to be a small piggyback facility nearby as well. Since most freight yards are double-ended, it begs the question as to which end you place the yard office. Again, probably the end where there was the most action. At Butler, that same end has the engine facility and the actual RIP track and shed as well. Getting closer to home (PRR), Colehour at Hammond,Indiana, has the yard office closest to the West end where the engine facility and what was is left of the caboose track are located. Although they occasionally switch from the East end, that lead is primarily used to double a train prior to departure (blocks the crossing to the Amtrak station anyway). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:44:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] New P2K steamer? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3bc27f21ef8222ffe866917e0b19f16a In a message dated 12/10/1999 7:36:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de writes: << on a Canadian homepage http://www.central-hobbies.com/products/index.html I did find an announcement for a USRA 0-8-0 model. It seems the Mallet will not be the only steam loco P2K will produce! What was the PRR roster for these "shifters"? >> The only 0-8-0 rostered by the PRR was the C-1. Much larger than the USRA and home built. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:52:54 EST Subject: [PRR] Passenger X-29 cannot cover an MS-60 slot? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8ae7666de71a3cd7f5fa2e23bbf7b990 First I apologize if anyone on this list has received one or two empty or near-empty messages from me this morning. Either the machine or the operator is malfunctioning. On the subject, you may have seen X29s which have a small stencil upon a white background above the reporting marks which essentially says (I can get exact wording tonight): "dedicated to mail storage, Akron-Columbus" (for example). In fact, Sunshine kit includes the decal for such lettering. I have to check the photo I have (think I got it from Rich Burg) to see if the REA marking is on as well. Other X29s are listed in consist books as carrying magazines. Raises another question: the latest Keystone article on RPO service refers to extra cars for this purpose on certain days. Were items such as Life, Time, Sears catalogs usually shipped Bulk mail or Railway Express in the late 40's, early 50's? Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:57:21 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] yard office X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4cbd1bf8bb0bb870d978b2aad5eb5387 In Erie, there was a yard office near the entrance to the East Lake yard (across from the scales), and behind the roundhouse in "OD" yard. See the yard plans near the bottom of my Erie page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/erie.htm -- Jerry Shickler Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, Chautauqua branches web page at: http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:02:05 EST Subject: [PRR] New P2K steamer? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2a31728775fdef6e76df4f62748b6988 In a message dated 12/10/99 10:54:03 AM Central Standard Time, SUVCWORR@aol.com writes: << The only 0-8-0 rostered by the PRR was the C-1. Much larger than the USRA and home built. >> I believe they did lease or "borrow" an N&W 0-8-0 or two, but I expect that was also probably "homebuilt". Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:18:29 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR 57 MOW Plans book X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6edd6f225e8fb5fe45ad2829dfdfb943 Howdy wizened PRR sages, I'd like to contact the fellows who published this estemed volume, MOW Plans of The PRR, better known as 57 PRR MOW plans back in the 1970s. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:35:51 -0800 (PST) From: robert netzlof Subject: [PRR] Mail car space increments X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9c26bb1e55649d61b35b3ee28decab8d The recent mail about MS60 mail storage cars, what does it mean, the post office did this that way, etc. reminded me of something. The 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia has two pages of plans for mail compartments/apartments. As I recall (the book is in the public library in Brockway and I'm about 100 miles from there) there were 3 sizes; 15, 30, and 60 feet long. That was for actual RPO cars, not storage cars. The plans were presented as US Post Office plans, not RR plans. They had snappy titles like "plan S" and "plan R" which suggests a number of other plans existed (but they might have been plans for curb-side mailboxes for all I know). Looking around in a CT1000, (I can't remember which one), I saw two tables to be used in reporting passenger train consists. There was one table for car types, a second for the car's useage. As I recall, "MS" stood for "mail storage"; but it was a use, not a car type. ===== Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] [AD] Athearn 2-8-2-more in stock Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:48:38 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 447b7c106f16dbef0e743e900574b6b5 If you are looking for the PRR (or other, heaven forbid) versions of the Genesis 2-8-2's, we have received more today and expect more on Sunday and next Tuesday. As we have heard, this will be the last shipment of units decorated in the current road names. We have also heard that the next run will PROBABLY feature undecs with the HIGH headlight and Road Pilot as well as the LOW headlight with Footboard Pilot. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Ogarasteam@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:39:38 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e1b82dfb36eeadcbd363d019af61f372 II Have had my7 Pennsylvania L-2 for about three week, but I haven't had a chance to open the box. Joe OGara ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] home for the holidays Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:54:44 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0b21c3a0169d6c0b183a3e59ff922501 A brief season holiday passenger memory: NYC northeastern Ohio in the steam era. Go to the RR around midnight to see the "Century" (sorry it couldn't have been the Broadway). It would come flying through town displaying markers for another section following. Several extra sections, all crowding the yellow of the section in front of it! Totally awesome! -----Original Message----- From: Robert A. Boyd To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 12:57 AM Subject: [PRR] home for the holidays >Hello all, > >Had a brainstorm today which I would like to invite all of you to partake >in. I was reading some of the recollections of oldtimers on other lists >who talked about what passenger service was like during the holidays. >This has me thinking about a topic called "Home for the Holidays", which >would be a selection of these writings. > >If there are any old PRR passenger hands out there who would like to share >your seasons reminiscences, I hope you will contact me. > >BTW: Psycho sends Seasons Greetings to all: > > http://www.thoseclassictrains.com/psycho.html > >All my best, > >Bob > >Robert A. Boyd > >======== >Those Classic Trains >"Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" > >"The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service >http://www.thoseclassictrains.com > >history - technology - modeling - sources >Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! >======== > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] home for the holidays Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 17:54:44 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3e6a4e80c7e8ec3e0097b1b5d9147e8e A brief season holiday passenger memory: NYC northeastern Ohio in the steam era. Go to the RR around midnight to see the "Century" (sorry it couldn't have been the Broadway). It would come flying through town displaying markers for another section following. Several extra sections, all crowding the yellow of the section in front of it! Totally awesome! -----Original Message----- From: Robert A. Boyd To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 12:57 AM Subject: [PRR] home for the holidays >Hello all, > >Had a brainstorm today which I would like to invite all of you to partake >in. I was reading some of the recollections of oldtimers on other lists >who talked about what passenger service was like during the holidays. >This has me thinking about a topic called "Home for the Holidays", which >would be a selection of these writings. > >If there are any old PRR passenger hands out there who would like to share >your seasons reminiscences, I hope you will contact me. > >BTW: Psycho sends Seasons Greetings to all: > > http://www.thoseclassictrains.com/psycho.html > >All my best, > >Bob > >Robert A. Boyd > >======== >Those Classic Trains >"Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" > >"The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service >http://www.thoseclassictrains.com > >history - technology - modeling - sources >Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! >======== > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:20:09 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of My Lambert PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b4a811f2e6bc604c197b5aa6edd137a0 doug.kisala wrote: > > > > Have any of you owning similar engines from Lambert repowered them with > good results? Doug:I just today got my computer back from a company upgrade, so I'm a bit late in responding to your post. You inspired me to get out my Lambert H6sb that hasn't been run in three years. Reason....three years ago I started on a new layout, and incorporated DCC into the project. Since all of my steam was equipped for conventional sound, (I used PFM and PBL), I have been slowly converting to Soundtraxx DCC. Slowly, due to the high cost of this transition. (It's worth it, by the way) After reading your posting, I took the tender apart, snipped one of the speaker wires, put the thing back together and ran it on analog mode. I forgot what a beauty this loco is! Thanks for the reminder. Anyway, I did re motor the engine, years ago, with the largest Sagami motor that would fit. I had to remove some of the firebox that folds under in order to accommodate the new motor, but it is not noticeable. I also had to bush the worm, since the Sagami, like so many other cans, has a shaft smaller than the open frame job. I think the trouble was worth it. Since Sagami isn't available anymore, I would recommend a Mashima. I would not recommend an Allentown or Alco motor if you are running with DCC. In my experience, these motors just don't generate a good low speed torque with DCC. You'd be better off sticking with the open frame. > Is is a great sin to attach parts with goo or CA? No, no, no! It's not a sin at all. I used to think so until I observed that Challenger is using epoxy on some of their details that need to be mounted after painting. If it's good enough for Sammy, it's good enough for me! Good luck with this wonderful engine, I know you'll enjoy it! Larry > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes (plus P2K Y3) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:22:53 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 185243f8a38a967d11f68fd47a9cd303 Anyone who's desperate to find an Athearn Mike may be interested to know our local dealer, North American Models ( KENatNAM@aol.com ) has a Pennsy version in stock (at least he did have last week). I bought the B & O version a few weeks back, and apart from the lack of adhesion, have been very impressed. There's a useful pic of the actual B & O example #4531 in Alvin Staufer's 'B & O Power'. When I was in the shop I enquired about the P2K Y3 2-8-8-2 to be told that they were all sold out. I didn't know they were even on sale Any news about these coming on to the market again? If they run as good as they look I'll be wanting one for sure, being a Lines West modeller etc.. John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS website at its new URL: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ndmrs.htm -----Original Message----- From: doug.kisala To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: 09 December 1999 02:03 Subject: [PRR] Arrival of Athearn PRR and B&O Mikes >Hello list, > >Have any of you received any of the Athearn PRR and B&O mikados (I know >the B&O is off topic, but not completely so as B&O and PRR were >intertwined interchangewise in NJ and elsewhere)? > >I have seen many announced new products be very late (Bachmann used to >be infamous for this; witness their early run K4s engines), but I'm >dissappointed that usually reliable Athearn is this late. > >It also appears that the initial run of the engines will not be rerun; >if this is true, Athearn deserves to lose sales. I am considering >cancelling my order and substituting a single Bowser USRA light mike >(assuming I can still acquire the Alco Products repower kits; >ARRGGHHH!!!!). > >Now, back to my I1sa! > >Doug > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:25:11 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 50b47077ec348524062efd3a13f3f8d5 On the subject of the H6 class. I've got a Sunset example which, overall I'm quite pleased with, apart from fixable stuff such as a lurid green paint scheme, grossly overscale decals and a headlight jewel that wouldn't look out of place on Liberace! However, there's one feature that concerns me. The sand dome is much smaller than the steam dome (which appears to be the correct size). Anyone who has tinkered around with brass locos knows what a pain these are to remove. But I have not seen any H6 photos that show a small sand dome. Anyone on the list know if this is a genuine variation? John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS website at its new URL: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ndmrs.htm -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: doug.kisala ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: 10 December 1999 01:57 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb Doug, I just took a quick look at my photo collection and found some info on the H6sb. The earliest photo I have which shows a H6sb with power reverse is 1941 and the loco # is 6540. Interesting is the #6540 shows up again in a 1942 photo without the airtank on the pilot. hmm! I also found #6303 in 1944 with power reverse. I have more that show the power reverse in the late 40's. All the 1930's pics show the hand thrown lever. So I believe the change over to power reverse on the H6sb class occured in the 1940 time period. Just thought you would want to know...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:47:12 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a6531e65ece8a94ce938f2730c0414d7 Gary and the list, Thanks for the information! I feel a lot better about my guesses now, but I wonder why the 6540 would have the pilot mounted air tank removed after receiving power reverse? I was under the impression that all power reverse-equipped H6sb engines had the pilot mounted air tank. Can any of the listmembers add any information or correct my assumptions? Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > Doug, > > I just took a quick look at my photo collection and found some info > on the H6sb. The earliest photo I have which shows a H6sb with power > reverse is 1941 and the loco # is 6540. Interesting is the #6540 shows > up again in a 1942 photo without the airtank on the pilot. hmm! I also > found #6303 in 1944 with power reverse. I have more that show the power > reverse in the late 40's. All the 1930's pics show the hand thrown > lever. So I believe the change over to power reverse on the H6sb class > occured in the 1940 time period. Just thought you would want to > know...Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:53:47 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] PRR X42 Plans X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bd377534c2e5f975f2bbf049e15798eb Hello list, The PRR X42 plans were published in the October 1999 Railroad Model Craftsman, starting on page 76. I got this from the online Model Train Magazine Index, which can be accessed via Accurail's web site. Hope this helps! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] New P2K steamer? Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:55:32 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 156c2f5149136b3f9aa5ed654f041237 Pennsy had an 0-8-0 designated class C-1. It was a huge engine. Too big, in typical PRR fashion (if big is good, bigger must be better). It had a habit of pushing light rail in yards over on its side, and really wearing and destroying track and switches, and ran poorly and was a maintenance head ache. Therefore it suiffered an early demise and none were saved. A really neat engine, though, so I have one on my layout. Doesn't run much better than the original, so I'm true to the prototype! Must have been that the Baldwin Centipedes were the diesel replacements, or it certainly seems that way. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: Andrews, Ted To: 'Bobspf@aol.com' ; prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:03 AM Subject: RE: [PRR] New P2K steamer? >I have not seen any pictures of this USRA 0-8-0 yet, but would it be similar >or identical to the 0-8-0 that Rivarossi came out with? > >Ted Andrews > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bobspf@aol.com [mailto:Bobspf@aol.com] >Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:50 AM >To: prr-talk@dsop.com >Subject: Re: [PRR] New P2K steamer? > > >In a message dated 12/10/1999 6:36:51 AM Central Standard Time, >Burkhard.Sanner@geolo.uni-giessen.de writes: > ><< I did find an announcement for a > USRA 0-8-0 model. It seems the > Mallet will not be the only steam > loco P2K will produce! > What was the PRR roster for these > "shifters"? >> > >Zero, unfortunately. > >Bob Zoeller > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:10:08 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] L1s engines in passenger service X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9d7265b345d78f49c91cb6f3773da7e5 Hello list, I was paging through Morning Sun's Pennsy Steam Years II again and found that L1s 559 had both steam and signal lines for passenger service on her 20 October 1957 fan trip (page 52). I've yet to find pictures of other L1s engines with steam and signal lines for passenger train (troop train would probably be more accurate) service. Do any of you on the list know of other L1s engines like the 559? PRR had a considerable number of H class consolidations (H9s and H10s mostly) engines that had steam and signal lines fitted for troop train service. The 7688 preserved at the RR Museum of PA is one example; I'm guessing that the L1s engines in passenger service might have been less common due to lack of photos. Rival B&O equipped the entire Q4b (modified USRA light mike with 64" drivers and 220 lbs steam pressure, along with a weight of about 330000 pounds) with steam and signal lines. Obviously, PRR was not as systematic. Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:22:59 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR/ B&O Operations-Wheeling,WV X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd04f1b81ccd03ff990bcfb4440b071b Folks, Hope this inquiry isn't too far off base, but there may be some useful knowledge some one might spare. My earlier questions on B&O/PRR trackage in the Newark/Zanesville area were well treated, particularly by Mr Rea. I'm wondering now if anyone is familar with the Pennsy situation in Wheeling, as well as B&O? I'm really interested in the passenger depot layouts and the B&O street running. There's no question that the B&O was the dominant carrier, but Pennsy did run a gas-electric local carrying a 10-5 from New York into town. I'm gradually pulling together vignettes (Newark, Zanesville and now Wheeling) as my layout rebuilding continues and any information would be much appreciated. By the way, any other B&O fans recall a fairly recent article on Wheeling? Something is gnawing at my memory banks regarding that street trackage but I just can't put my finger on it. Thanks again. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:15:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fa4639ace5a7843129cf1833716a6f79 John, Good eye!!! I have owned my Sunset H6sb (Unpainted, Thank goodness) (Now painted) for almost 8-9 years and never noticed that small sand dome. Who knows, Sunset may have been supplied with blueprints and photos of that one oddball version the Pennsy owned and that is what Korea built. I checked some of my photos again and they seem to all have domes of the same aprox. size. Again, Thank Goodness I am not a nit picker or I would have to change it.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] L1s engines in passenger service Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:21:18 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3005cea19ee08c8eae2c96d5ef5c4cce Doug--L1s 426 is shown on p. 157 of Carleton's Pennsy Steam from A - T with both air brake and signal lines on the front. I think you will find that the lines on 559 are also air brake and signal. Some L1s engines were fitted with bar type pilots for passenger service during World War II, but I could not come up with a photo in common reference books. There is at least one video which shows one of these engines helping a passenger train over Horseshoe Curve, and I know I have one on a calendar. I suspect that the H class engines with these lines saw more use in commuter service than on troop trains. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 23:03:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 05af1bc41c11b5138a908d7e028053f1 Doug, There is always a chance that the photo caption could be wrong for the H6sb #6540. However this collection I have seems to be pretty acurate. The original owner took great care with the info...Gary Original messages: Gary and the list, Thanks for the information! I feel a lot better about my guesses now, but I wonder why the 6540 would have the pilot mounted air tank removed after receiving power reverse? I was under the impression that all power reverse-equipped H6sb engines had the pilot mounted air tank. Can any of the listmembers add any information or correct my assumptions? Doug Gary Mittner wrote: Doug,         I just took a quick look at my photo collection and found some info on the H6sb. The earliest photo I have which shows a H6sb with power reverse is 1941 and the loco # is 6540. Interesting is the #6540 shows up again in a 1942 photo without the airtank on the pilot. hmm! I also found #6303 in 1944 with power reverse. I have more that show the power reverse in the late 40's. All the 1930's pics show the hand thrown lever. So I believe the change over to power reverse on the H6sb class occured in the 1940 time period. Just thought you would want to know...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:16:04 EST Subject: [PRR] Two Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3aed54d421082940c2ccb5d27eba5a2d To the List: I had the following two questions e-mailed to me by a librarian on Delmarva. I'd appreciate any answers/speculation from the List that I can send back. In 1906 would the attachment of a baggage car to a freight train be something out of the ordinary? Also, what does the following quotation from the Pocomoke City Worcester Democrat, 16 June 1906, mean: The culprit "boarded the south bound express for Cape Charles using the 'blind baggage' as a means of escape"? My own answer/speculation was: Attaching a baggage car to a freight would be unusual, but could physically be done. Blind baggage might be a baggage car that was completely filled and not meant to be worked between the two main terminals, say Philadelphia and Cape Charles. Thanks. --Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:33:06 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a152bf79ce3c4749acf5349b35e61371 Fred: Just a thought, the end of a baggage car with no door is referred to as a "blind" end. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: FredAbend@aol.com To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:20 AM Subject: [PRR] Two Questions >To the List: > >I had the following two questions e-mailed to me by a librarian on Delmarva. >I'd appreciate any answers/speculation from the List that I can send back. > >In 1906 would the attachment of a baggage >car to a freight train be something out of the ordinary? > >Also, what does the following quotation from the Pocomoke City >Worcester Democrat, 16 June 1906, mean: The culprit "boarded the south >bound express for Cape Charles using the 'blind baggage' as a means of >escape"? > >My own answer/speculation was: >Attaching a baggage car to a freight would be unusual, but could physically >be done. >Blind baggage might be a baggage car that was completely filled and not meant >to be worked between the two main terminals, say Philadelphia and Cape >Charles. > >Thanks. > >--Fred Abendschein > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:33:06 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd81cf9eb27dafbe804727f16c108aff Fred: Just a thought, the end of a baggage car with no door is referred to as a "blind" end. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: FredAbend@aol.com To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:20 AM Subject: [PRR] Two Questions >To the List: > >I had the following two questions e-mailed to me by a librarian on Delmarva. >I'd appreciate any answers/speculation from the List that I can send back. > >In 1906 would the attachment of a baggage >car to a freight train be something out of the ordinary? > >Also, what does the following quotation from the Pocomoke City >Worcester Democrat, 16 June 1906, mean: The culprit "boarded the south >bound express for Cape Charles using the 'blind baggage' as a means of >escape"? > >My own answer/speculation was: >Attaching a baggage car to a freight would be unusual, but could physically >be done. >Blind baggage might be a baggage car that was completely filled and not meant >to be worked between the two main terminals, say Philadelphia and Cape >Charles. > >Thanks. > >--Fred Abendschein > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:15:57 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] RPO Sources X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a0178691e6bd4e0e482cb1b9b15fe0c0 If you can find a copy, a very good history of the Railrway Mail Service is _Mail by Rail_, by Bryant A. Long and William J. Dennis, pub by simmons-Boardman in 1951. It contains over 400 pages, plus photographs. The authors are/were RMS clerks, among other talents. Another interesting reference is _Railroad Postal Routes from 1867 to 1961_, compiled by Herbert H. Harrington, Sr. This 122 page tabular listing of RPO routes was published 3 times up to 1967; I do not know if it has been continued. Mr. Harrington's address was given as 404 Asbury Lane, Niles, Ohio 44446. Mr. Harrington was a member of the Mobile Post Office Society, which is still in existence, website at http://swansongrp.com/mpos.html The MPOS would probably be a good source to track down either of the above references. Good luck, Steve Bartlett ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 09:29:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Sources X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b411a466e2618a9a6ddfeec199f54537 List, I havn't been following this thread too much but for info on this subject, lets not forget the excellent article in a past issue of the Keystone. It was 4-5 years ago, don't have quick access to my stash, and the whole issue basically pertained to PRR RPO service. I don't know your original questions on this subjject but that issue may answer questions.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:06:18 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1d902324020b075cdeb3ba3592c2b99d In 1906 would the attachment of a baggage car to a freight train be something out of the ordinary? Would it have been possible that it was attached to either a mail train or an express of some type for prelabeled perishables something like the way UPS delivers grapefruit and oranges today? Either way it could look a nromal freight to the untrained eye. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: [PRR] Decals for HO X-42 Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:07:47 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 576b35c0aef0f6f78d427c28097354e3 Middle Division set HBX-9 includes both the white and bronze gold lettering for the X-42 Boxcar. There are enough decals to do one of each paint scheme. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: EandPng@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:57:32 EST Subject: [PRR] Steam Engine Smoke Box Markings X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b62321a4301ace6ffecb4bdbbc69a8db Allen Buchan, A friend of mine forwarded a message to me that he saw on the "Pennsy-talk" e-mail group in which you made reference to an E and P book. He forwarded it to me because he knows I am also deeply interested in an E&P Railroad, the one in Nevada. I am curious as to the E&P you are putting together a book on as I can't figure how a Nevada narrow gauge short line would be of interest to devotees of the great standard railroad. Best regards, Greg Maxwell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:16:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 21a5a623d0e7a90723fd77fb82e31ac8 Fred That question about the 'blinds' has always puzzled me as well. You used to always read about hobos riding the blinds, etc. i wonder if it isn't part of the car end, above the buffer/end sill? Hope to find out. As regards the baggage car in a freight, I think it was fairly common for freights that worked freight houses along their route to carry a baggage car for LCL and express shipments, even on lines that were freight-only. I recall seeing this on Great Northern freights even into the early 1960's era. The ones I saw were near the caboose, so the crew could handle these chores and keep track of waybills for the goods being handled. Hope this helps, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: L1s engines in passenger service Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:42:00 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6172ed4b085ffcd7dac4a0687f67a0ca Subject: L1s engines in passenger service From: "doug.kisala" Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:10:08 -0600 I have a photo of L1s 1514 (assigned to E&A Division) pulling Train 474 out of Erie ca. 1950 enroute to Pittsburgh via the E&P Branch. My assumption is the normally assigned K class engine had an ATS failure and could not leave the origin terminal with such a defect, so an L1s (w/ATS) probably waiting to take EP-2, BEC-1 or an ore extra east was pressed into service. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:43:27 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Baggage-car Question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e3507e69733bad6e2184938f45978c98 Greetings to Fred and the List: The term "blind baggage" deals with the configuration of the body of a baggage car, although I'm not sure what all the nuances are. Around the turn of the century (the 20th, not the 21st!), train robbery was still not unheard-of; in fact, you may recall that a westbound PRR passenger train was robbed in the Lewistown Narrows one night in 1909. An open platform on a baggage car could invite trouble in a couple of ways. The unscrupulous could stow away there, or board en route (as for example when moving slowly through yards, or stopping for water). They could then use the platform as a staging area from which to conduct a raid on the baggageman, or to climb over the tender to force the engineman and fireman to do his bidding. Hoboes were also very much a part of the scene at that time, one that the railroads found pesky and undesirable. Also, many people who were not hoboes, notably teens and young men who were short on money, also took advantage of the opportunity to hitch a free ride from time to time. Whether the impetus came from the railroads or the carbuilders or both, isn't known to me, but an initiative to fully enclose baggage cars got under way. As an aside, this was also very close to the time when railroads began to change over from wood to steel construction for passenger cars (about 1906-07 on the PRR). So baggage-car design swung to full-length carbodies, whose ends were termed in some way or connection, "blind baggage." Such cars almost always had end doors, so they weren't "blind" in the sense of being sealed that way. A person who, despite the discomfort and danger, rode on such a car anyway, clinging to a grab iron or brakewheel while standing on the end sill the whole way, was said to be riding "blind baggage." Other reasons for changing the design also came into play. Jack White's passenger-car book says that railroads found they could gain space and save weight by converting end-platform cars to enclosed cars, noting that B&O in 1899 was reportedly in the process of converting all of its baggage cars from open style to enclosed. Hope this helps. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, a son is given." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:37:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: L1s engines in passenger service X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fef2e1f2d79dd365ca92d93d4c6e3d95 Al, Doug, List Just for kicks I checked my photo collection out for L1's with passenger equipment. I found #3583 at Ebenezer, NY 1952 with a Passenger Train. Loco is well cared for. Nice shot!. The second L1 I found is #6306 taken in Lancaster in 1948. While glacing at other L1's I found a real oddball. #6272 seen at Hagerstown, Maryland in 1954. The Freight version L1 is equiped with a 130P75 Kiesel Passenger Tender (could be modified to fit this class?) with a modern 3 man doghouse. Neat combination!...Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:54:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Passenger X-29 cannot cover an MS-60 slot? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4a2c3744467bc9acffc2206ccde17968 In a message dated 12/10/1999 11:07:57 AM Central Standard Time, I wrote: << On the subject, you may have seen X29s which have a small stencil upon a white background above the reporting marks which essentially says (I can get exact wording tonight): "dedicated to mail storage, Akron-Columbus" (for example). In fact, Sunshine kit includes the decal for such lettering. I have to check the photo I have (think I got it from Rich Burg) to see if the REA marking is on as well. >> Checked and Photo of 100688 from collection of the late Tom Martorano shows stenciling as follows: "Mail Storage (line 1) Akron-Columbus (line 2". above reporting marks. This car which has Youngstown ends and doors has CK and REA lettering on right side of door. The car also has high-speed express trucks -will have to search to see what is close (don't look to be the same as those on X42). Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:24:31 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: de9b84c6c1da6f7531f784fe6e1f534b Gary, Thanks for the reply. What Sunset were thinking of when they O.K'd that model I hate to think. A shame as it is such a sweet running loco. Looks like I'll have to break out the 100 watt iron and (hopefully not) the blow torch and add it to the growing pile of 'round tuits'. Finishing my P87 layout and doing a major rebuild of our club layout are the big ones for 2000. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS website at its new URL: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ndmrs.htm -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: John H. Wright ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: 11 December 1999 04:14 Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR H6sb John, Good eye!!! I have owned my Sunset H6sb (Unpainted, Thank goodness) (Now painted) for almost 8-9 years and never noticed that small sand dome. Who knows, Sunset may have been supplied with blueprints and photos of that one oddball version the Pennsy owned and that is what Korea built. I checked some of my photos again and they seem to all have domes of the same aprox. size. Again, Thank Goodness I am not a nit picker or I would have to change it.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 18:29:39 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f420a34d9e4124e5288ce02db1248ae8 Barry and all, "Riding the blinds" was a hobo term for riding on the endsill of the tender...an extremely dangerous practice, expecially in winter on the PCo as well as other roads that made use of track pans. The 'bos would hitch a ride back where the crew couldn't see them (hence the term "blinds") and when the crew lowered the scoop and spray engulfed the back of the tender the unsuspecting 'bos got literally frozen to death. Bill Daniels Tucson, AZ -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com To: FredAbend@aol.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions >Fred >That question about the 'blinds' has always puzzled me as well. You used to >always read about hobos riding the blinds, etc. i wonder if it isn't part of >the car end, above the buffer/end sill? Hope to find out. > As regards the baggage car in a freight, I think it was fairly common for >freights that worked freight houses along their route to carry a baggage car >for LCL and express shipments, even on lines that were freight-only. I recall >seeing this on Great Northern freights even into the early 1960's era. The >ones I saw were near the caboose, so the crew could handle these chores and >keep track of waybills for the goods being handled. > Hope this helps, >Barry Peltier > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BudPCCRR@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:05:01 EST Subject: [PRR] towers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b099db529c07c63fb2ad5857dba9f3f0 Two questions. 1. Anyone have any info on DJ (Duff Junction) tower? I have both books on the PRR in Pgh. . They say it was a block tower where the P.C. & Y RR merged into Scully yard. No pictures. Would like to get more info in order to build a model. 2. The cover photo of the Summer 97 Keystone was the Wye tower. Where might I find plans for Wye or a similar tower? Thanks, Bud Brock ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: L1s engines in passenger service Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:13:51 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b031868d0e6826b64d2eb82d357ec51 And #520 at Strasburg has a 110P75 "passenger" tender, but I do not recall which type of doghouse or whether there both air brake and signal lines on the pilot. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:30:06 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] RPO Sources X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2999925de4d5bbddb71068783643d23e Gary and the List, The issue is the Spring 1993 Keystone. I know this largely because this was the first issue I received after joining the Society. I built my BM70nb with information from this issue and an excellent issue of RMC from a few years back. Doug Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I havn't been following this thread too much but for info on this > subject, lets not forget the excellent article in a past issue of the > Keystone. It was 4-5 years ago, don't have quick access to my stash, and > the whole issue basically pertained to PRR RPO service. I don't know > your original questions on this subjject but that issue may answer > questions.....Gary > > http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:40:53 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] HO PRR BM70nb X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3c3df77cda7ae9cd572d92e04572e358 Hello list, This may or may not be of help to those of you following the latest RPO thread, but here goes. The November 1995 Railroad Model Craftsman has an excellent article by Bob Kessler starting on page 86 about modelling a BM70nb. His starting point (and eventually mine, as I built a car following his directions) was the Rivarossi RPO. The short version follows: replace the low arch roof with a high arch roof, replace the trucks, correct the underframe detailing (BM70nb cars had box sills like P70s, not the deep girders of the Rivarossi cars), and add wire grabs. The article was very well done, and I found it easy to follow. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:52:22 -0500 From: Stephen Bartlett Subject: [PRR] Re: Two Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: de8cbf40f0b3f21498ef23be39df59a2 The _Car Builders' Cyclopedia_ for 1940 gives these definitions: "(Passenger Equipment). A term applied to the end construction of baggage, express, postal, and some passenger-carrying cars, which have no external plaatform or vestibule. See Dummy End." [page 16] "Dummy End (Passenger Equipment). A term which was applied during the period of about the year 1912, to designate non-vestibuled cars, but more properly a car without end doors either non-vestibuled (dummy) or with open platforms. Arms Palace Horse Cars followed this type of construction..." [Page 33] Steve Bartlett Subject: Two Questions From: Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 05:16:04 EST To the List: I had the following two questions e-mailed to me by a librarian on Delmarva. I'd appreciate any answers/speculation from the List that I can send back. ......... Also, what does the following quotation from the Pocomoke City Worcester Democrat, 16 June 1906, mean: The culprit "boarded the south bound express for Cape Charles using the 'blind baggage' as a means of escape"? ....... Charles. Thanks. --Fred Abendschein ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:51:25 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR N-Scale GHQ L-1s conversion X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a45f65842626571988a55fb546b2d86a Hello to the list! Looking for some help on my Kato GHQ L-1s conversion. I am all finished with the work and the details and am quit pleased for doing something this small.I am breaking it in on the Christmas platform.Now here's the problem. Pulling about 30 average cars on level track,when starting out it lifts the first and second drivers off the rail enough that I get to much wheel slipping to pull proper.Running in reverse it will pull great with all most no wheel slip. HOW do I keep the front drivers down on the rail to get full traction? I did not put in the driver replacement that Kato had for traction. Need to keep all drivers on the rail first then look into the driver replacement. Any comments or solutions? Thanks for now. Planning a second conversion,already have the kits just got to find the time. Pat McKinney PRRT&HS 1524 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: L1s engines in passenger service Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:23:00 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cd034e11bffee1518a224a888c531167 Hi Guys, I checked some photos on my computer (isn't the internet wonderful?...these came from Bowser's site) and 520 has the old style of doghouse. Now it also only has a single hose on both tender and locomotive, but it appears that there is an blanked off steam hose to the left of the coupler on the tender. Bill Daniels -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Hoxie To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: L1s engines in passenger service >And #520 at Strasburg has a 110P75 "passenger" tender, but I do not recall >which type of doghouse or whether there both air brake and signal lines on >the pilot. > >Steve Hoxie >Pensacola FL > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:32:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ca93aba22b9410c63b477ea0ed799d64 Folks, I've begun to use code 83 Atlas and Peco code 75 trackage on visible sections of my rebuilding layout. Trouble is I'm running out of code 83 rail joiners and can't seem to find a listing for Atlas joiners, even in the Walthers catalog. They list insulated, terminal and transistion joiners, but no regular ones. What gives? What would be a good substitute? Thanks folks, Barry Peltier ps-Atlas code 83 turnouts themsolves seem to be getting scarce at the distributors my local guy uses. What's going on? bp ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:49:34 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: de1ba54e69ea05ca621cc76c994456a5 Atlas has redesigned their 150-170 NS rail joiner to be used for BOTH Code 100 and Code 83 rail. They discontinued the separate Code 83 rail joiner some time ago. Several months ago, Atlas moved all Code 83 production to China. As of a few weeks ago, they have not received a production run. Hope this helps. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: BPX29@aol.com To: ldsig@onelist.com Cc: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 >Folks, >I've begun to use code 83 Atlas and Peco code 75 trackage on visible sections >of my rebuilding layout. Trouble is I'm running out of code 83 rail joiners >and can't seem to find a listing for Atlas joiners, even in the Walthers >catalog. They list insulated, terminal and transistion joiners, but no >regular ones. What gives? What would be a good substitute? Thanks folks, >Barry Peltier >ps-Atlas code 83 turnouts themsolves seem to be getting scarce at the >distributors my local guy uses. What's going on? bp > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:50:53 -0500 From: "David R. Campbell" Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f08cbadc82249b3faff25165ef6d6290 The Atlas info I have indicates that their #170 rail joiners are used on both 100 and 83. If you look at their web site they list #170 for both sizes. www.atlasrr.com David campbell Norton, VA BPX29@aol.com wrote: > > Folks, > I've begun to use code 83 Atlas and Peco code 75 trackage on visible sections > of my rebuilding layout. Trouble is I'm running out of code 83 rail joiners > and can't seem to find a listing for Atlas joiners, even in the Walthers > catalog. They list insulated, terminal and transistion joiners, but no > regular ones. What gives? What would be a good substitute? Thanks folks, > Barry Peltier > ps-Atlas code 83 turnouts themsolves seem to be getting scarce at the > distributors my local guy uses. What's going on? bp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] P70 Coaches Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:36:20 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd41c4d52e7ca8a288471972330961a9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4495.1C8BC0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, I will be building my first Eastern Carworks P 70 and would like = opinions on the coupler mounting. I figure I will have min 28" radius = curves (with easements) and #6 turnouts. Which is recommended, body or = truck mounted couplers. Also to my eye, a/c is not included in the basic = kit. Have to pull out the Walthers and order the necessary accessories. = Next question could someone direct me to a schematic of this = arrangement. I will be modeling 1952, which a/c method was most common? = Educated speculation is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4495.1C8BC0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
    I will be building = my first=20 Eastern Carworks P 70 and would like opinions on the coupler mounting. I = figure=20 I will have min 28" radius curves (with easements) and #6 turnouts. = Which is=20 recommended, body or truck mounted couplers. Also to my eye, a/c is not = included=20 in the basic kit. Have to pull out the Walthers and order the necessary=20 accessories. Next question could someone direct me to a schematic of = this=20 arrangement. I will be modeling 1952, which a/c method was most common? = Educated=20 speculation is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4495.1C8BC0C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] AK Tower Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 09:12:46 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ebf354b123f9dada6a9e97ce40db4eaa With no response to first request I thought I might try again . I believe that AK tower was near Renovo on either the Renovo division or Williamsport division. Can anyone provide information on where this tower was located. I have a photo of it. Any additional information would be appreciated. Thanks, Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] P70 Coaches Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:27:09 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ff5f69d8cbfb22b8b56331e62b709a27 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF449C.35CEDE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, opps, had I read the instructions through, my question on a/c would = have been answered . But location of couples still needs = input. Would appreciate. Sheepishly Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF449C.35CEDE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
    opps, had I read the = instructions through, my question on a/c would have been answered=20 <blushing>. But location of couples still needs input. Would=20 appreciate.
 
Sheepishly
Walt P.
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF449C.35CEDE80-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:37:52 +0000 Subject: [PRR] Rail Height X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 42e37c545d29dc7c37a49e19dc0b5509 If the Pennsy did indeed use 150-155 pound rail, what was the height of the rail? Figures that I have seen have suggested 8.5 to 9 inches in height. We didn't see much of the big stuff here in Central Indiana. Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 Coaches Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:24:16 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ebe32986921519c929c708d8b1047eed This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF44A4.30804060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt--I use KD #5 mounted on the body with 30" min radius and #6 = turnouts (crossovers, too) with no problems. I use American Limited = diaphragms and locate the couplers so that the diaphragms just touch. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF44A4.30804060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Walt--I use KD #5 mounted on the = body with=20 30" min radius and #6 turnouts (crossovers, too) with no = problems.  I=20 use American Limited diaphragms and locate the couplers so that the = diaphragms=20 just touch.
 
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL
 
------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BF44A4.30804060-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:40:25 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1a254836436930928158e28396185977 Barry and the list, Atlas' part number for their rail joiners is 170. Off the top of my head, I don't know what the Walthers' prefix is. Atlas' catalog lists the 170 joiners as Universal Rail Joiners - Fits all Atlas HO Track. My True-Track circle fits together nicely, but the rest of my track is currently in storage (it will be a happy day when tech school and my remote are done!). I remember reading at www.onerrave.com that Atlas had shipped their code 83 tooling to China, but had yet to receive satisfactory samples. Personally, I'm somewhat disappointed by this; one of the reasons I buy Atlas code 83 is that (until now) it was an American product; I don't always have a choice, but where I do, I try to favor products built here. Doug BPX29@aol.com wrote: > Folks, > I've begun to use code 83 Atlas and Peco code 75 trackage on visible sections > of my rebuilding layout. Trouble is I'm running out of code 83 rail joiners > and can't seem to find a listing for Atlas joiners, even in the Walthers > catalog. They list insulated, terminal and transistion joiners, but no > regular ones. What gives? What would be a good substitute? Thanks folks, > Barry Peltier > ps-Atlas code 83 turnouts themsolves seem to be getting scarce at the > distributors my local guy uses. What's going on? bp > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:00:09 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 Coaches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ca15ba970b30fe5b873e74ccd4e8f837 --Boundary_(ID_u6YNh64HqTLnu75l8droLg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt and the list, I've built almost a dozen of the Eastern Car Works P70s (actually, some are so old that they retain their Alco Models boxes). Mechanical A/C is included on the detail parts sprue. All of my P70s are in storage at my grandfather's, and I won't have access to one until Christmas, so I can't point out the exact spot on the detail sprue from memory, but ECW's diagram of the detail parts sprue does list the mechanical a/c. Ice bunkers for ice-activated a/c are sold separately from ECW. Check their web site for the part number; it's listed there (Jerry has a link through Keystone Crossings). As far as coupler mounting goes, I've body mounted all of my couplers. I tested these cars with body mounted couplers on 22" and 24" radius curves. Overhang is prodigious, but operation is great; I have no problems with my cars staying coupled on those curves. I usually end up using a Kadee 37 coupler and box; the mounting pad is a bit low. I also usually end up filing the bottom of the kit diaphragms flat and smaller to be sure to clear the coupler head. As far as what the stuff underneath a passenger car actually does, the best (and it seems, only) source is an April 1995 Railroad Model Craftsman article by modeller Vic Roseman. It starts on page 77 and runs to page 82. It shows all of the ECW undercar detail parts assembled, including the mechanical air conditioner parts. As far as which type of a/c was more common in 1952, it depends. I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it's true. For example, P70s in the 800-1098 series had no air conditioning (much like the Bachmann models). The P70fbr class, prevalent on my New York and Long Branch, numbers 1600 to 1765 all had mechanical air conditioning, like the ECW car supplies. I have a passenger car roster from 1954 that includes the car class, type of a/c, type of seats, and type of trucks. I've used photos and this roster to accurately model the P70s I need. Pick from photos, or your life will be more difficult. I consider Morning Sun's Color Guide to PRR Freight and Passenger Equipment, Volumes I and II to be essential. If you have a specific car number already in mind, email me, and I can probably tell you the information I listed above. The passenger car roster in 1952 can't be too different from the one in 1954 which I have information for. Doug Walt Prusick wrote: > Dear list, I will be building my first Eastern Carworks P 70 and > would like opinions on the coupler mounting. I figure I will have min > 28" radius curves (with easements) and #6 turnouts. Which is > recommended, body or truck mounted couplers. Also to my eye, a/c is > not included in the basic kit. Have to pull out the Walthers and order > the necessary accessories. Next question could someone direct me to a > schematic of this arrangement. I will be modeling 1952, which a/c > method was most common? Educated speculation is greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance. Walt Prusick --Boundary_(ID_u6YNh64HqTLnu75l8droLg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt and the list,

I've built almost a dozen of the Eastern Car Works P70s (actually, some are so old that they retain their Alco Models boxes).  Mechanical A/C is included on the detail parts sprue.  All of my P70s are in storage at my grandfather's, and I won't have access to one until Christmas, so I can't point out the exact spot on the detail sprue from memory, but ECW's diagram of the detail parts sprue does list the mechanical a/c.

Ice bunkers for ice-activated a/c are sold separately from ECW.  Check their web site for the part number; it's listed there (Jerry has a link through Keystone Crossings).

As far as coupler mounting goes, I've body mounted all of my couplers.  I tested these cars with body mounted couplers on 22" and 24" radius curves.  Overhang is prodigious, but operation is great; I have no problems with my cars staying coupled on those curves.  I usually end up using a Kadee 37 coupler and box; the mounting pad is a bit low.  I also usually end up filing the bottom of the kit diaphragms flat and smaller to be sure to clear the coupler head.

As far as what the stuff underneath a passenger car actually does,  the best (and it seems, only) source is an April 1995 Railroad Model Craftsman article by modeller Vic Roseman.  It starts on page 77 and runs to page 82.  It shows all of the ECW undercar detail parts assembled, including the mechanical air conditioner parts.

As far as which type of a/c was more common in 1952, it depends.  I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but it's true.  For example, P70s in the 800-1098 series had no air conditioning (much like the Bachmann models).  The P70fbr class, prevalent on my New York and Long Branch,  numbers 1600 to 1765 all had mechanical air conditioning, like the ECW car supplies.    I have a passenger car roster from 1954 that includes the car class, type of a/c, type of seats, and type of trucks.

I've used photos and this roster to accurately model the P70s I need.  Pick from photos, or your life will be more difficult.  I consider Morning Sun's Color Guide to PRR Freight and Passenger Equipment, Volumes I and II to be essential.

If you have a specific car number already in mind, email me, and I can probably tell you the information I listed above.  The passenger car roster in 1952 can't be too different from the one in 1954 which I have information for.

Doug
 

Walt Prusick wrote:

Dear list,    I will be building my first Eastern Carworks P 70 and would like opinions on the coupler mounting. I figure I will have min 28" radius curves (with easements) and #6 turnouts. Which is recommended, body or truck mounted couplers. Also to my eye, a/c is not included in the basic kit. Have to pull out the Walthers and order the necessary accessories. Next question could someone direct me to a schematic of this arrangement. I will be modeling 1952, which a/c method was most common? Educated speculation is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Walt Prusick
--Boundary_(ID_u6YNh64HqTLnu75l8droLg)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] AK Tower Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:03:38 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c329dee1381e5a1d65905b4fd886106d Just spent the past hour going through the following references, and no mention of AK Tower: Williamsport Div. Emp. Timetable 1940 Williamsport Div. ETT 1950 Williamsport, Buffalo, and Renovo Divs. 1961 (includes Emporium to Erie) Track Charts 1945 Renovo to Emporium; Emporium to Erie & Buffalo All branches in the above territory. If it's there, it's sure well hidden or went by some other name! Sorry! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: Greg Stone To: PRR talk Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 12:17 PM Subject: [PRR] AK Tower >With no response to first request I thought I might try again . I believe >that AK tower was near Renovo on either the Renovo division or Williamsport >division. Can anyone provide information on where this tower was located. I >have a photo of it. Any additional information would be appreciated. > >Thanks, > Greg > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:07:31 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7216d22012c59820df68a1c8e255eabd Hi Doug, Thanks for the reply. I've been steadily buying the code 100 joiners but had no idea they also work on code 83. The reason I was going to use code 83 is that a supplier years ago sent me 75 sections by mistake; I had ordered code 100. I had no way to use it, but now a rebuilding has given me an opportunity. Bad timing I guess, seeing as how it's going to Red China (watch the price drop....yeah, you bet!). I thought I must be some kind of lone nut to keep buying American, which was one reason I was willing to switch to Atlas code 83. Not now, it looks. Apparently what's still available must be the USA made stuff, so I better stock up. Flex track will stay available from Mirco Eng, etc, but turnouts and diamonds could become a problem. Which is where Peco 75 comes in. Hell if Atlas goes to China for code 100 too, I won't buy that either. Well, good thing I've got a two week vacation starting in a couple days...I gota lay track faster than the supply dries up! Best regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] Atlas track Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:23:11 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 10010e124a8c22aed85f6ff10376622f Anybody have the web address for Atlas products? I'm going to tell them I am unhappy with their rail manufacturing move to China. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 14:22:25 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR N-Scale GHQ L-1s conversion X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 92aa4c0e0f8531526c9315147f597fc7 Hello Pat, For some reason, my Kato Mikado conversion did not experience your problem. One thing to look at would be to see if you could get more weight in the front of the boiler. Also, how loose is your coupling between the engine and the tender? Is it free enough? That might be a cause. Cheers, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:31:17 -0500 From: "Robert L. Johnson" Subject: Re: [PRR] towers X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a871ee7a48dbfa96d43a27965dbe3a01 BudPCCRR@aol.com wrote: > 2. The cover photo of the Summer 97 Keystone was the Wye tower. Where > might I find plans for Wye or a similar tower? > Thanks, > Bud Brock Greetings to Bud and the list, My notes show the following for Wye and similar towers. It was a standard PRR design by Chief Engineer William H. Brown, issued in 1884. The standard design had five end windows, a cupola on top, and what I'll call a small front porch on the second floor facing the track (instead of a bay window). The length (along the track) varied according to the size of the interlocking machine. Wye was of the size called "18 to 36 Lever Interlocking Cabin". This size was 14'-4" by 21'-4" and was six windows long. This standard PRR tower is similar in size and layout to the CVRR tower known as J or LEMO, drawings for which appeared in "Model Railroader", July 1995, pp 92-95. Photos were published there; in "The Keystone", Vol. 30, No. 3, pp 7-9; and in "On The Main Line", p 188. The tower itself has been preserved at Strasburg. However, there were significant differences in trim and other details, e.g. roof material, eaves brackets, under-eave trim, panelling vs. fish-scale shingles in cupola and below windows, waist eaves brackets, trim and windows below waist roof, style of doors, and application of trim boards on first story. The standard towers also were changed over time, most eventually losing their cupolas and having the "front porch" either removed or replaced by a bay window, having the exterior stairway replaced by interior stairs, and receiving many simplifications in trim. Published photos of this size of standard PRR tower include: Forge, near Tyrone, Pa., 1964, with bay, no cupola, roofing replaced, "On The Main Line", p 94. Hestonville, Pa., 1880's, "On The Main Line", p 16. MO, Cresson, Pa., early 1960's, no cupola, no fish-scale shingles, two small windows on ends replace by one large, "The Keystone", Vol. 22, No. 4, p 45 - same photo in "On The Main Line", p 126 and in "Triumph I", p 173; 1995 views, "Triumph I", pp 173 and 356. OB, Overbrook, Pa., "On The Main Line", p 17. Royalton, Middletown, Pa., 1937, no porch, "The Keystone", Vol. 24, No. 4, p 25. SG, Johnstown, Pa., 1890's, no porch, two small windows replaced by one large, "On The Main Line", p 134. SQ, 3 mi. West of Sheridan, Pa., ca. 1920, no cupola, "Triumph I", p 253. SY, Mantua Jct., Philadelphia, Pa., 1880's, "On The Main Line", pp 15 and 184; ca. 1891, "The Keystone", Vol. 23, No. 2, p 60. UN, Gallitzin, Pa., 1890's, "On The Main Line", p 125 - same photo in "Triumph I", p 130. Waldo, Jersey City, NJ, late 1940's, roofing replaced, two small windows replaced by one large, "The Keystone", Vol. 17, No. 4, p 58. Wye, Hollidaysburg, Pa., 1962, with bay, fish-scale shingles replaced, no cupola, two small windows replaced by one large, "On The Main Line", p 109 - same photo in "Triumph I", p 51; 1966, "The Keystone", Vol. 30, No. 2, p 1. Bob Johnson ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigHookX45@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:35:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Height X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 87bddd54cd86e34dc3e91e37e7276886 The PRR used two rail sections, 152 PS and 155 PS. Both were 8 inches in height. ThePRR also had 130 PS which was 6 5/8" high, 100 PRR 5 1/2", 100 PS 5 11/16", 85 PS 5 1/8". Rick ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:04:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas track X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c2bb20c63ce2a07d1bc20aabef1d29ef Lew, I'm in agreement with you on that. Their web address is: www.atlasrr.com I'm going to write them too. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 18:11:02 +0000 Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Height X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 77bd35279a838f0c42b53d5d32df330e > From: BigHookX45@aol.com > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:35:12 EST > Subject: Re: [PRR] Rail Height > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > The PRR used two rail sections, 152 PS and 155 PS. Both were 8 inches in > height. ThePRR also had 130 PS which was 6 5/8" high, 100 PRR 5 1/2", 100 PS > 5 11/16", 85 PS 5 1/8". > > Rick Thank you. Just what I was looking for. :-) Roger Roger Hensley - 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com === http://bsuvc.bsu.edu/~00rphensley/cidwelco.html ================ === The Railroads of Madison County, Indiana ======================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Rail Height Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:27:50 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c1401ddde16188400dd8ae45440406fa Subject: Rail Height From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:37:52 +0000 The PRR used both 152 and 155 # rail. Both were 8" high and had a base width of 6 3/4", which meant both rail weights could use the same tie plates. The major difference in these two rails was the depth of head with the 152# being 1 27/32" while the 155# was 2 1/16". There were other differences but too small for an untrained eye to notice As axle loads and speeds increased the early lightweight rail sections proved inadequate, and the need for heavier rail became apparent. Rail weights increased up to 155#, a section developed by the PRR, which was the heaviest section made. In the mid 1950s PRR had three standard sections: 1) 155# was used in heavy tonnage, high speed trackage east of Altoona, between New York and Washington and between Canton and Mansfield, OH; 2) 140# was used on high-speed tracks that carried moderate tonnage; and 3) 133# was reserved for the light tonnage high speed tracks, mostly west of Columbus and Crestline. By the mid 1960s the PRR standard was 140# AREA for main-track mainline and 115# AREA for maintrack branch line. For a table of heights of various code track in N-HO-S-O scale, and a table showing the heights of various prototype rail PRR and AREA sections see page 44, in the July 1995 issue of Model Railroading. There is really not exact rail in HO to achieve 152/155# rail as code 100 = 8.71" and code 83 = 7.23". However, I believe code 100 would achieve the look, if not the exact height. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] Atlas track Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:44:49 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9d0e437140dd9da4d0cdd2a903b376b7 Thank you list, for the overwhelming response to my question. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: FredAbend@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:34:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Thanks X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 029864f1c5685a4c87575210b4b53961 To the List, Passing on the thanks of the librarian from Delmarva: " Thanks for the posts from the PRR list. The were quite helpful." And thanks from me too; I had never heard the term "blind baggage" before. --Fred A. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: [PRR] The Microferroequinologist's Night Before Christmas From: Randy.Williamson@marathon-eap.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:58:21 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 84c5c05f619e81b1bcdac3a3d83a8f4d Hi All, This was sent to me, even though it is not 100% Pennsy thought you would enjoy it. Don't know who the author is; The Microferroequinologist's Night Before Christmas 'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through my pike, Not a steamer was stirring, not even a Mike. My yard tracks invitingly empty and bare, In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there. The diesels were nestled all snug in their sheds, While visions of DCC danced in their heads. While I, in my blue-and-white engineer's cap, Had just settled down for a long winter's nap, When down in the train room, there rose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter. Away to the basement I flew like an ace, Tripped over the cat and fell flat on my face. I stifled a curse meant for Chessie (the cat), And I muttered to no one, "I meant to do that," When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But an HO-scale sleigh and eight Preiser reindeer, With an engineer driving, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick. More rapid than GG-1's, onward they came, And he blew a steam whistle and called them by name: "On Athearn! On Lionel, Kato and Walthers! On Kadee and Micro-Trains, Atlas and others! To the top of the mountains of Hydrocal plaster, Now dash away, dash away, dash away faster!" As dry leaves that behind a new Genesis fly, When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky, So in through the window the coursers they flew With the sleigh full of trains, and St. Nicholas too. And then, on my roundhouse, I saw on the roof The prints in the dust of each HO-scale hoof. As I drew a deep breath, and was turning around, From beneath the benchwork, St. Nick came with a bound. He was dressed like an engineer from head to foot, And his clothes had that fine smell of ashes and soot; A bundle of trains he had flung on his back, And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. His eyes - just like marker lights! Dimples, how merry! His cheeks like a Warbonnet, nose like a cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, And his beard was so white, it would please Phoebe Snow. He puffed on a pipe as he refilled its bowl, And the smoke, it smelled just like bituminous coal. He had a broad face and a belly (I found) That shook like a tank car with wheels out-of-round. He was chubby and plump, and I wanted to shout, "Yes! The man's got a route the UP can't buy out!" A wink of his eye as he passed near the door Soon gave me to know I'd have freight cars galore. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work. He filled all my yard tracks; then turned with a jerk, And leaving an airbrush he'd found on eBay, And giving a nod, he returned to his sleigh. He pumped up the brakes, blew two blasts on his whistle, And away they all flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight, "HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL! KEEP 'EM ROLLING! GOOD-NIGHT!" Author UnKnown? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:29:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Atlas Code 83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 82b95b3d46327eafe02211834affce25 Folks, thanks for all the input on my Atlas questions. Here I've been buying their regular rail joiners steadily without realizing they were usable for code 83. I decided today to stock up on the stuff while the getting is good (and USA made) and was told by the mail order place that it was a good time to do so as Atlas will be raising prices on code 83 in January. I'm busy now reconciling the statements from all these "well meaning" politicians who keep assuring us that we need things made in Red China to keep our costs low. Funny thing though, how come prices don't drop when production is transferred to these off shore nations? Could it have anything to do with the infamous 'corporate greed'? Naw....Walthers and Lifelike and these guys wouldn't do that. But I'm getting confused...that 2-8-8-2 is being made in a prosperous country like Austria, yet the price isn't outrageous. Oh well, I'll be quiet. But consider getting that code 83 soon as possible just to be safe. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:14:27 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: Oakland, PA and PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d7ef2eb574db77b6dac1597629fd34f7 Did anyone ever answer this? The Open and Pre-pay Stations book shows an Oakland, in Armstrong County, Pa, but it is on the Pittsburg and Shawmut, not PRR John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:21:41 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Miracle Castings H15/44 diesels X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 20fd80e41b28621e15c29f6bbf253fbc --Boundary_(ID_quw8f02E3UHJxu7oxVJS4Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, I am very excited about the Miracle Castings H15/44 diesels. I just checked their web side (Jerry's Keystone Crossings has a link), and they have added a short page about the H15/44s. They have made a chassis for it that will accept Athearn components. What I was curious about was whether or not the Miracle Castings shells would/might fit on the Bachmann chassis; I bought two of the late-produced Bachmann H16/44s because I needed FMs (in the east, CNJ had them and PRR didn't seem to use them in New Jersey) for my future layout. Miracle Castings writes on their FM H15/44 page that the Bachmann chassis might fit, but that they needed to do more checking to be sure one way or the other. I might just go with Athearn components anyway, because the early H15/44s all seem to ride on a version of the AAR B road truck (albeit in a slightly longer wheelbase than the Athearn truck, but it's a difference of a couple inches, and I, for one, can live with it easily). Doug --Boundary_(ID_quw8f02E3UHJxu7oxVJS4Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list,

I am very excited about the Miracle Castings H15/44 diesels.  I just checked their web side (Jerry's Keystone Crossings has a link), and they have added a short page about the H15/44s.  They have made a chassis for it that will accept Athearn components.

What I was curious about was whether or not the Miracle Castings shells would/might fit on the Bachmann chassis; I bought two of the late-produced Bachmann H16/44s because I needed FMs (in the east, CNJ had them and PRR didn't seem to use them in New Jersey) for my future layout.  Miracle Castings writes on their FM H15/44 page that the Bachmann chassis might fit, but that they needed to do more checking to be sure one way or the other.

I might just go with Athearn components anyway, because the early H15/44s all seem to ride on a version of the AAR B road truck (albeit in a slightly longer wheelbase than the Athearn truck, but it's a difference of a couple inches, and I, for one, can live with it easily).

Doug --Boundary_(ID_quw8f02E3UHJxu7oxVJS4Q)-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:35:01 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Miracle Castings H15/44 diesels X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 308ee348a576f107d8991bbca2b8e9f8 On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, doug.kisala wrote: > What I was curious about was whether or not the Miracle Castings shells > would/might fit on the Bachmann chassis; I bought two of the > late-produced Bachmann H16/44s because I needed FMs (in the east, CNJ > had them and PRR didn't seem to use them in New Jersey) for my future > layout. Miracle Castings writes on their FM H15/44 page that the > Bachmann chassis might fit, but that they needed to do more checking to > be sure one way or the other. > > I might just go with Athearn components anyway, because the early > H15/44s all seem to ride on a version of the AAR B road truck (albeit in > a slightly longer wheelbase than the Athearn truck, but it's a > difference of a couple inches, and I, for one, can live with it easily). That's the best answer if what you want is AAR trucks; The Bachmann has a version of the C-Liner truck, which IIRC is correct for at least some if not all of the PRR units. http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=fs-16m.gif&sel=die&sz=sm&fr= seems to agree. Though.... I also recall the Bachmann C-Liner truck isn't of quite the right wheelbase. Oh well. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Griffin Subject: [PRR] RE: AK Tower Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:20:08 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a1ed4988304fa88d624520662b3f5e33 Greg, AK Tower was in Dunkirk, NY - Buffalo Division, Chautaugua Branch. I protected the jointly operated NC&StL/PRR line with crossings by the NYC and Erie. The "Joint Line" ran from Brocton NY to FY Tower in Buffalo. AK shows up in the January 1,1945 Track Chart but does not appear in the May 1, 1945 CT1000 C. That's not unusual, since AK was an Interlocker and not a "Car Destination" as such. East of AK the "Joint Line" ran off to Sheridan NY and then came back to Silver Creek (CK Block Station). I have a couple of questions regarding this area; The Track Chart shows a single track running from Dunkirk (AK) to Silver Creek (CK). Was this a solely owned and operated PRR Line? How did the "Joint Line" come into being? Was a Single Track PRR line and Single Track NKP (NC&StL) Main operated a Double Track Main from Brocton to FY Tower for the benefit of both. Just curious. PS - Greg; looks like you've got a "Horse"! :-). - John - John Griffin Senior IT Analyst Computer Support Services CAE Electronics Ltd. pho: 514.341.2000 x3332 fax: 514.340.5583 net: griffin@cae.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:49:02 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] RE: AK Tower (fwd) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9d13fdb952ead47b52b079a4eb9488c9 Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:20:08 -0500 From: John Griffin To: "'PRR-talk@dsop.com'" Subject: [PRR] RE: AK Tower Greg, AK Tower was in Dunkirk, NY - Buffalo Division, Chautaugua Branch. I protected the jointly operated NC&StL/PRR line with crossings by the NYC and Erie. The "Joint Line" ran from Brocton NY to FY Tower in Buffalo. AK shows up in the January 1,1945 Track Chart but does not appear in the May 1, 1945 CT1000 C. That's not unusual, since AK was an Interlocker and not a "Car Destination" as such. East of AK the "Joint Line" ran off to Sheridan NY and then came back to Silver Creek (CK Block Station). I have a couple of questions regarding this area; The Track Chart shows a single track running from Dunkirk (AK) to Silver Creek (CK). Was this a solely owned and operated PRR Line? How did the "Joint Line" come into being? Was a Single Track PRR line and Single Track NKP (NC&StL) Main operated a Double Track Main from Brocton to FY Tower for the benefit of both. Just curious. John....the tracks were used as a double track main from Brocton to FY...however in later years the NKP pulled out of the deal and the tracks went back to being 2 single track mains... PS - Greg; looks like you've got a "Horse"! :-). - John - John Griffin Senior IT Analyst Computer Support Services CAE Electronics Ltd. pho: 514.341.2000 x3332 fax: 514.340.5583 net: griffin@cae.ca ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: AlbertSR@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:58:57 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] P70 Coaches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 50d3917e2326b769fa6d6efe2517666b In a message dated 12/12/1999 10:42:09 AM Central Standard Time, walpru@stargate.net writes: << Also to my eye, a/c is not included in the basic kit. Have to pull out the Walthers and order the necessary accessories. Next question could someone direct me to a schematic of this arrangement. I will be modeling 1952, which a/c method was most common? >> A couple of items come to mind at this point. 1. PRR used Ice air conditioning on most passenger cars. 2. I would relpace the 2 water tanks with the ones from NERS. They look much closer to the ones I can discern in photos of P70 coaches. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:32:43 EST Subject: [PRR] Branchline Heavyweights X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e792edad0872bf47c600162ea77a1fa9 Folks, Looks like great promise on the Branchline website. I hear rumblings that five further car types are planned: has anyone got any clues as to what they may be? I certainly have a wish list, but don't want to start that ball rolling again. Whatever they are I'll be happy....after all these years a quality line of passenger cars is long overdue and I'm hoping for nothing but the best for this company. So far their paint jobs and AAR box cars are simply great,and if, as seems likely, their passenger cars match that quality we may have a new standard being set. (And without Walthers in control!). It's been a long drought. Best regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions From: "Michael E. Allen" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:07:45 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ed3a009c8fd1ae0ae9d7262d70ad7656 Fred, Barry et alia; During the waning days of REA service, the agency at Princeton often received full baggage cars which were spotted on one of the team tracks at the bottom of University Place. These were usually brought in by the local freight which served the Heating plant and the lumberyard. Somewhere in my mother's attic is an old polaroid print showing 9918 with two hoppers, a Northern Pacific baggage car, and a caboose alongside the platform at Princeton MEA On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:16:24 EST BPX29@aol.com writes: >Fred >>snipped<< > As regards the baggage car in a freight, I think it was fairly common for freights that worked freight houses along their route to carry a baggage car for LCL and express shipments, even on lines that were freight-only. I recall seeing this on Great Northern freights even into the early 1960's era. The ones I saw were near the caboose, so the crew could handle these chores and keep track of waybills for the goods being handled. > Hope this helps, >Barry Peltier > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact >"listmaster@dsop.com". ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:22:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Mission control... we have lift off! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 43bcecfbf81e747262cfa56032feeb65 Hey Yuze Gize, With reference to Kris' L-1 article, I just wanted to keep you posted. Kris Kollar writes : ..."Bob [MAINLINE MODELER] sent me the blue line copy on Saturday. He basically printed it verbatim except for a few small changes. I was shocked. Part 1 is six pages long and will be in the January edition"!!!!!! It doesn't surprise me that Kris' article was printed verbatim, it isn't his first effort and I read the sneak preview and it was well written. His photography is excellent, the text is well done and the subject matter is certainly worth while. I am very proud of what has come of our (PRR-Talk) efforts to guide this young man with his project. I think we all need to pat Kris on the back and then ourselves, with all his questions came good answers and no flame wars erupted telling him that the subject matter had been covered before, like you might expect to find on other lists. I have had an advantage the rest of you have not in watching all of this project come together, but like you I have not seen the finished photography and I CAN'T WAIT! Good job Kris, and we all hope to see more! >From LINES way out WEST! Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] PRR cabs for steam locos Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:19:37 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a9494b7193527945809db09518f050a5 Dear List: Years ago, Charles Melliot (?) offered a photo etched brass PRR cab kit. They were sold to another party who produced them for a while but that stopped too. These kits have been out of circulation for some time now and are no longer available. Does anyone know where the etching master(s) is/are? Does anyone have a cab for sale? Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mission control... we have lift off! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:22:42 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dc5ef019a8197f1b587d31cbf3299cde Which issue will this article be in? Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Cc: PIXELS@ameritech.net ; ELM2@aol.com ; Mksme@aol.com ; ALBERTSR@mediaone.net ; JFuhrtrain@aol.com ; Stuthayer@aol.com ; VRYODER@aol.com ; johnhwrignt@nmrabr.freeuk.com ; markkerlick@att.net ; JWelther@aol.com ; STEVEGG1@aol.com ; RGSPEMKT@aol.com ; rljack@pathway.net ; dbourque@juno.com ; LINESWEST@aol.com ; Engrchip@aol.com ; stibb@primenet.com ; bowser@mail.csrlink.net Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 9:27 PM Subject: [PRR] Mission control... we have lift off! >Hey Yuze Gize, > >With reference to Kris' L-1 article, I just wanted to keep you posted. > >Kris Kollar writes : >..."Bob [MAINLINE MODELER] sent me the blue line copy on Saturday. He >basically printed it verbatim except for a few small changes. I was shocked. > Part 1 is six pages long and will be in the January edition"!!!!!! > >It doesn't surprise me that Kris' article was printed verbatim, it isn't his >first effort and I read the sneak preview and it was well written. His >photography is excellent, the text is well done and the subject matter is >certainly worth while. I am very proud of what has come of our (PRR-Talk) >efforts to guide this young man with his project. I think we all need to pat >Kris on the back and then ourselves, with all his questions came good answers >and no flame wars erupted telling him that the subject matter had been >covered before, like you might expect to find on other lists. I have had an >advantage the rest of you have not in watching all of this project come >together, but like you I have not seen the finished photography and I CAN'T >WAIT! Good job Kris, and we all hope to see more! > >>From LINES way out WEST! > >Greg Martin > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:37:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR cabs for steam locos X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 83a368bbcf1cfa3ec2e28e192621361c Lew, Those cabs were nice items. They were made by Mellor. I hope I spelled it right. I had one that I used on a Cary M1a boiler. That fit perfectly. I believe the line was dropped after Mellors' death. I havn't heard anyone picking up his products. He made a small line of frame conversions for Tyco/Mantua stuff too......Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:03:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Pennsy ' USRA " Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c739173d40353996e5e34a91f380bfe2 Folks, Perhaps someone can advise me on this, but somewhere in the back of my mind it seems I saw a photo of a solitary Pennsy cabin that looked much like the typical Northeastern caboose. This would be similar to the type used on Reading, Lehigh Valley, WM, etc. Was there such a critter? Or have I been ingesting too many railroad picture books lately, which is quite possible. Seems the caption stated it was a one of a kind. Thanks, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:13:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy ' USRA " Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c8850a1514d5b75e43ddd0318fd06809 Barry, The only car that I can think of that you may have mistaken for the Northeast style was the lone N5e class. It had paired windows on the sides but a streamlined cupola.....Gary http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Daniels" Subject: Re: [PRR] Mission control... we have lift off! Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 21:49:16 -0700 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f9169c4bfa4cc6109e60a8e093b148c6 Hey Greg and all... Looks like the first part of next year will have several good articles on building PRR locomotives...Kris's work in January's MAINLINE and a I1s article in the February MR. Give my heartfelt congratulations to Kris. Regards, Bill Daniels ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] AK tower Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:08:47 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d3562deec288e77d205a0cbd8999b112 Thanks to all who responded to my questions on AK tower. I am always impressed by the wealth and variety of information available from the members of this list. Thanks, Greg Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Pennsy 'USRA' Cabin Car Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:19:10 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cce70c4fc62214d9802e835b29c6a30f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF46CC.AEC9D9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barry and list, Picture and drawings appear of #477594 in Cabin Cars of the = Pennsylvania and Long Islang RR by N. J. International. Also short bio. = which states it was introduced in 1945, basically an N5 w/o beltrail, an = off-center coupola (N8 design) and paired windows on the sides. Could = very well be a one-of-a-kind as you and Gary Mittner state. Picture = shows a yellow coupla, indicating either east/west or north/south pool = service. (I believe the other color was white?, but I don't recall which = color designated which direction). Appears to be a "do-able" kitbash. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF46CC.AEC9D9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Barry and list,
    Picture and drawings = appear of=20 #477594 in Cabin Cars of the Pennsylvania and Long Islang RR by = N. J.=20 International. Also short bio. which states it was introduced in 1945, = basically=20 an N5 w/o beltrail, an off-center coupola (N8 design) and paired windows = on the=20 sides. Could very well be a one-of-a-kind as you and Gary Mittner state. = Picture=20 shows a yellow coupla, indicating either east/west or north/south pool = service.=20 (I believe the other color was white?, but I don't recall which color = designated=20 which direction). Appears to be a "do-able" kitbash.
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF46CC.AEC9D9C0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:49:15 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy ' USRA " Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9892492e4de42b1e0d0c075136db9f70 In a message dated 12/14/1999 10:10:08 PM Central Standard Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << Perhaps someone can advise me on this, but somewhere in the back of my mind it seems I saw a photo of a solitary Pennsy cabin that looked much like the typical Northeastern caboose. This would be similar to the type used on Reading, Lehigh Valley, WM, etc. Was there such a critter? Or have I been ingesting too many railroad picture books lately, which is quite possible. Seems the caption stated it was a one of a kind. >> PRR477594 was an N5E rebuilt from a wrecked N5. Picture on page 102 of the PRR color guide to Freight & Pass. Equip II. It had the paired windows and an N8 style cupola added. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:59:13 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR cabs for steam locos X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9501dc843011ef02e4643f4b4a64a3c7 Unfortunately, according to the story I've heard, the "Mellor" etched cabs are lost forever. His widow wanted nothing to do with the "toy train" business and trashed them without even trying to find a buyer. I have several friends hear in New England who would gladly pass through Hell for one of the arched window cabs with which to convert the IHC SP mogul to B&M or NH. I did a few such conversions years ago on the Pemco model of the same engine. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== lew matt wrote: > > Dear List: > > Years ago, Charles Melliot (?) offered a photo etched brass PRR cab kit. > They were sold to another party who produced them for a while but that > stopped too. These kits have been out of circulation for some time now and > are no longer available. Does anyone know where the etching master(s) > is/are? Does anyone have a cab for sale? > > Lew Matt > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "andrew harmantas" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR cabs for steam locos Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:15:15 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5a721deffcbd71bac64fab29b7bdac35 > Those cabs were nice items. They were made by Mellor. I hope I >spelled it right. I had one that I used on a Cary M1a boiler. That fit >perfectly. I believe the line was dropped after Mellors' death. I havn't >heard anyone picking up his products. He made a small line of frame >conversions for Tyco/Mantua stuff too __________________________ Absolutely, and very nice stuff, for not just Pennsy, but USRA, and a few others. I wrote to his widow about 20 years ago now, and she told me there were no buyers for the business, so it would just reamain where he left it. Andrew Harmantas, SPF in Tidewater Virginia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:01:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy ' USRA " Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e5d7b0e955d057e85f18af2bd771b122 In a message dated 12/14/1999 23:10:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, BPX29@aol.com writes: << olks, Perhaps someone can advise me on this, but somewhere in the back of my mind it seems I saw a photo of a solitary Pennsy cabin that looked much like the typical Northeastern caboose. This would be similar to the type used on Reading, Lehigh Valley, WM, etc. Was there such a critter? Or have I been ingesting too many railroad picture books lately, which is quite possible. Seems the caption stated it was a one of a kind. >> Barry: Are you thinking of the lone N4? This cabin lasted into the 60's in MOW service. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 12:49:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR cabs for steam locos X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cd251bf72a3aad1f49ba9a4dba506ac2 List, As I stated earlier I used one of the Mellor etched cabs for a Cary M1a Loco years ago. I also placed one on a English A5s 0-4-0. I just rememberd that I also traced the outline of one of those cabs to a piece of Brass sheeting. . I just found that tracing in my parts cabinet. I had already cut it out and it still looks good. I even went as far as cutting the windows and roof vent openings out. I even placed on rivit heads. That looks a little crude but it was just meant to be a guide as to where Mellor placed his rivit pattern. I will xerrox this cab and if anyone wants a copy to use as a template send me a S.A.S.E. and I will get a copy out to you. Not sure if the rivit heads will show up on a xerrox though. This is only the cab overlay. The original Mellor kits came with seperate window etchings, arm rest, toe walks and roof vent. Those parts were to be either glued or soldered to the overlay. The Pennsy version cab overlays that Mellor made were designed for Bowser Models with the short cabs. ie. K4, I1 and L1. This is no good for the H-9s or E-6. I suppose the fairly recent G5 could now be added to the list of do-able. They were able to be applied to the Cary and English models as mentioned above as well. All that needed to be done to apply these was to file off all molded on details that were originaly on the cast boilers shell cabs. The cab roof vent needed to be cut out if you wished to have the new overlay displayed in the open positition too. Then all you needed to do is glue the new overly on the cab. I think I used contact Cement. You could probably use ACC glue but probably only have one shot at lining it up as that kind of glue grabs and dosn't let go. I have sold off my A5 and M1a now as I updated to brass but those locos always stood above the rest of plain Bowser locos.....Gary Gary Mittner P.O. Box 321 Beaver Falls, Pa. 15010 http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:53:53 EST Subject: [PRR] re: your Dayton trip X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d19d33e03bcb4fd903b3fb7c53029405 In a message dated Tue, 14 Dec 1999 7:27:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, RickTipton writes: > > In a message dated 12/7/99 12:16:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST writes: > > I need to start planning Lines West Fans Fest 2000. Am thinking about having a planning meeting at the Panhandle depot in London if it's still a party house. > > When? I'm coming to Dayton the weekend of Jan 16 to give a clinic for the NMRA. But this sounds like it would be another trip. > > Rick Tipton Rick, this is the first response I received to my tickler. I'll plan to be at the Jan. 16 Div. 3 meeting at the Wright Library in Oakwood Ohio at 2 p.m. (I'm assuming this is the time, place and date of your clinic.) It might be nice to plan a little side trip like an inspection of the CL&N/DL&C Pasadena station off of Devon Avenue in central Kettering before or after the meeting. I'm still loking for someone who can give me the grade on the Dayton State Hospital Spur between the loading dock east of Wilmington Avenue and the switch onto the CL&N (Lytle Secondary Track in your post-merger scenario) just south of Irving Avenue. It's not on my Columbus Division track chart. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:06:14 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy 'USRA' Cabin Car X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e0307264fb78ca0fd1dabe4bbb57c6ee <<...Picture shows a yellow coupla, indicating either east/west or north/south pool service. (I believe the other color was white?, but I don't recall which color designated which direction). Appears to be a "do-able" kitbash....>>\ Yellow marked east-west, GRAY was for north south. For information on the kitbash posibilities check the stories in the April 1982 Model Railroader or Ed or Greg Martin's piece in the November 1990 Mainline Modeler One did the words and the other took the pics but I forget who did what. The Its actually a bit easier than the whole TYCO/Mantua trainset streamlined caboose kitbash because there are fewer rivets to detail without the belt rail. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:39:17 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Athearn PRR light Mikes seem to be shipping X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fab0ee2ca9398c5eabdee533eef36a9a Hello list, I received a phone call from Trainworld today; they're shipping my L2s tomorrow! Of course, I won't see it until after Christmas, but better a bit late (okay, a lot late) than never. There appears to be a little light at the end of the tunnel. Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 18:47:23 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] Why did M1a engines have fabricated frames? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eac826ee977737f7301b8d6812c7bc31 Hello list, I was browsing through a few of the RR Museum of PA photos I've dug out (many more sleep in storage) when I recalled that the M1a class had fabricated frames. 6755 still does, and I don't believe that any of the M1/M1a/M1b engines ever had cast engine beds. With experience from the final 5 K4s engines and K5 5698 and all things being equal, I would have thought that PRR might've specified cast engine beds. The only reason I can think of for PRR sticking with the fabricated frames is one of cost in the Depression (severe in 1930, but not as severe as in 1932). Otherwise PRR didn't skimp on these engines (witness the feedwater heaters and dual compressors) except for a lack of mechanical lubricators, which was slowly rectified over the next two decades. Can any of you list members provide more information or correct my assumptions? Thanks in advance! Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:58:39 EST Subject: [PRR] Philly area questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d420381d898089fe5050afc70c53062a 1. What were the towers on the corridor from Zoo north? Was it North Philadelphia, Shore, Holmes in order? Then what? 2. What tower controlled the 30th ST. tracks? 3. Was there any freight business on the Chestnut Hill branch? Thanks for any help. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean121982@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:04:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly area questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 057a2911b66775b5c31c6c796c813d49 In a message dated 12/16/99 12:06:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << Was it North Philadelphia, Shore, Holmes in order? >> Holmes is actually farther south of Zoo interlocking. I'd estimate it's 5 or 6 miles south of Zoo. Sean McD ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:27:34 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRRSignaling] ***Other, C&S, Early CTC, PRR, Limedale X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 21e97b9ca4af09161f575f97bbe5a37f In a message dated 12/14/99 11:13:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, prrsignals@adelphia.net writes: << Lines West Folks ? A name for #6, pls ? Help ! >> In 1929, simply listed as St. Louis-New York Express; carried sleeping cars and dining car, ref Table 31 (Columbus to Pittsburgh) in July 7, 1929 Form 1. A comment -- a group of these long-haul, nameless trains (e.g. #6, #10, #13) had by the 60's become essentially mail-only. For example, when I model the daily trip of #13 across the 1968-era Panhandle toward St. Louis, its only passenger accommodation is a rider coach (P70). The rest of the (heavy) train is headend stuff-- , mail, express, and an RPO. Rick Tipton Of, for, and on Lines West ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Philly area questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:18:46 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a1c63dc2c3b5f442d9bfcc4a509b33e2 Subject: Philly area questions From: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:58:39 EST 1. What were the towers on the corridor from Zoo north? Was it North Philadelphia, Shore, Holmes in order? Then what? ------------------------------------------------------- ZOO, NORTH PHILADELPHIA, SHORE, FORD, HOLMES, GRUNDY, MORRIS, FAIR, MILLHAM, NASSAU, MIDWAY, COUNTY, EDISON (R-LINCOLN), LINCOLN, UNION, ELMORA, LANE, HUNTER, DOCK, HUDSON, PORTAL, A, KN, [Penn Station] C, JO and F [Sunnyside]. PRR ER ETT No. 21 04/24/66 ====================================================== 2. What tower controlled the 30th ST. tracks? ----------------------------------------------------- The lower level the "River Line" was - ZOO [Lower Level], PENN, ARSENAL. The upper level the "Suburban Line" was - ZOO or ARSENAL [Upper Level], BROAD [Suburban Station]. ===================================================== 3. Was there any freight business on the Chestnut Hill branch? ----------------------------------------------------- Yes, there were two branches off the Chestnut Hill Branch - the Fort Washington Branch and the Midvale Branch. There was also a freight yard - Midvale Yard. ======================================================== Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:21:31 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR USRA CABIN CAR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9bbee02e108683cd6c343afc0b50fe9f Folks, Thanks for the responses on my cabin car question. Seems there may have been more than one type of such an oddball, as more than one car was mentioned Are there are photos in the Morning Sun color Guide 1? Perhaps if I had a look at one I could brew up a kitbashing idea. Thanks again, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:25:10 EST Subject: [PRR] Other; Philley Freight House X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 020e33f9392f7cfad155b944dfb32e1d Folks, Is anyone familar with Pennsy's Berks St freight house in Philley's Kensington neighborhood? I'm working on an HO model, but need more than recollections to get a reasonable track layout. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks much. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: John Cooper Subject: RE: [PRR] Philly area questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:54:37 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 135fbfde5a11c8abb9eaf19eaf88d186 The below response is not correct. Holmes is railroad east of Zoo, ie closer to New York. To answer your questions, listed below is from 30th st station to NY. There are diagrams of each interlocking listed on Mark Bej's site. Penn (30th st) Zoo N Phila Shore (Frankfort Jct) Ford Holmes (Holmesburg Jct) Gundy Morris (Trenton cutoff) Fair (Trenton) Millham Nassau (Princeton Jct) Midway County (New Brunswick) Edison/Lincoln (Metuchen) Union (Rahway) Elmora (Elizabeth) Lane Hunter Dock (Newark) Hudson Portal A (Penn station) There must have been freight traffic on the chestnut hill branch. There were plenty of industrial sidings. Again, see chestnut hill map on Mark's site. Penn interlocking controlled the lower level of 30th st. Broad interlocking controlled the upper level. John > ---------- > From: Sean121982@aol.com[SMTP:Sean121982@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 4:04 AM > To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com > Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly area questions > > In a message dated 12/16/99 12:06:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > NDBPRR@aol.com > writes: > > << Was it North > Philadelphia, Shore, Holmes in order? >> > > Holmes is actually farther south of Zoo interlocking. I'd estimate it's 5 > or > 6 miles south of Zoo. > > Sean McD > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly area questions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:59:19 -0500 (EST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c278c33962f530af07b47b4638819bda Sean121982@aol.com scribit: > << Was it North Philadelphia, Shore, Holmes in order? >> > > Holmes is actually farther south of Zoo interlocking. I'd estimate it's 5 or > 6 miles south of Zoo. Actually, no. HOLMES is at Holmesburg Jct., and near Holmesburg prison, in northeast Philly, just off I-95. It is RR-east of SHORE tower. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 16:54:29 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Two Questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 516e429cce0187d0ee1a0b73513e1df8 In a message dated 99-12-14 21:15:45 EST, Michael Allen wrote: << Fred, Barry et alia; During the waning days of REA service, the agency at Princeton often received full baggage cars which were spotted on one of the team tracks at the bottom of University Place. These were usually brought in by the local freight which served the Heating plant and the lumberyard. Somewhere in my mother's attic is an old polaroid print showing 9918 with two hoppers, a Northern Pacific baggage car, and a caboose alongside the platform at Princeton >> Check that Polaroid, Michael: if the baggage car is over 65' long and has end doors, it was likely carrying racing shells built by George Pocock in Seattle. Until the '70's, Pocock was the prime builder of wooden racing eights for the college market in the US; those sold to colleges in the East would be shipped by railcar to Princeton for pickup by the various schools. I was given to understand that Princeton was the location for delivery because it was somewhat central to the primary Eastern Association of Rowing Colleges schools (Georgetown on one limit, Cornell on another, Dartmouth on a third), and that yard in Princeton was somewhat more protected than other locations, so that the car would be left in Princeton until each school had an opportunity to pick up its shell(s) in line with the various moves made during the racing season. This practice was in place through the 1960's. I have been trying to gather more information on the shipping methods used for racing shells before the current road trailer rigs used now. I have assumed that scenery baggage cars were the most usual means, with the exception of the Naval Academy, which used a wooden subchaser rigged with racks from the end of WWI until 1933, when the Delaware and Raritan Canal across New Jersey was closed. The special requirements of shipping a racing shell are extreme length (up to 65') and extreme ease of damage (the wooden shells would weigh about 230 lbs., with a skin of single ply softwood only one-eight inch thick). The current carbon fibre shells are even lighter, but a bit more rugged: those used in international competition must be sectionalized, so that they will fit in a standard 40' container (this is supposed to equalize the "playing field" for countries which can not afford to ship the shells in their full length by air). So, if one finds a picture of a PRR scenery car (to get back to topic, and there was recently a listing of PRR scenery cars on one of lists), set off in a location which was closer to a rowing venue than a vaudeville house, the possibility might be that it was shells that it was carrying. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: [PRR] Atlas response to query about manufacturing out of US Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 17:40:58 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 15e054f63fd0ec530bea7b22036d9ff2 I wrote to Atlas about moving their track manufacturing out of the US and this was their response: Lewis, Our HO code 100 line is made here in the US. Due to production capacity in our factory, we were forced to move production of our code 83 line to China. -Joy So I will continue to buy Atlas code 100 track by the box, business as usual. Lew Matt White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:57:59 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Atlas response to query about manufacturing out of US X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 85a1d32380e4364789a77db2ab172e7a Lew, I'll stick with the code 100 too, and buy remaining stocks of code 83. But makes a guy wonder; if their factory needs expansion, why not expand is the USA just as easy as in China? Makes a guy also wonder what's down the road...expanding industrial capacity in Red China while shrinking it in America. Oh well, good thing I don't need much more trackage anyway. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:59:26 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: [PRR] American-made flextrack and switches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5453289aa1e7cc16dca3e7d729d228fa Hello list, Now that Atlas' code 83 production is in China, I think that the only American manufactured flextrack and turnouts in codes 83 and smaller is Micro Engineering/Railcraft. Are there any other manufacturers lurking out there in the woods? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:15:26 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] American-made flextrack and switches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 54b5d658c23801e9fd9f7990da22e382 Doug & folks, Don't forget BK Interprises, which makes a fine line of turnouts and other track supplies. They offer switchs in numbers ranging from #3 up to about a number 16! I don't know about Tomalco, which may have been bought out. By the way, the Bk stuff can be had in sizes ranging down from code100 to code 55. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:44:44 -0500 From: John Ryan Subject: [PRR] Pennsy in New England? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd187aa4d78e5d512daa26938f7badaa I found this on E-bay. Did Pennsy go somewhere I didn't know about? Beautiful GRIF TELLER 1947 print of two Penn.r/r trains passing through gorgeous rural New England countryside in fall season. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:57:39 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] Re: [PRR-FAX] ***Other, C&S, Early CTC, PRR, Limedale IN, X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 989088feefe03c339df72972ee2e5e61 RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/14/99 11:13:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, > prrsignals@adelphia.net writes: > > << Lines West Folks ? A name for #6, pls ? Help ! >> > In 1929, simply listed as St. Louis-New York Express; carried sleeping cars > and dining car, ref Table 31 (Columbus to Pittsburgh) in July 7, 1929 Form 1. Okay. In the 1936 Guide, No. 6 is listed as the Mercantile Express. Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:08:58 -0500 From: Dan Cupper Subject: Re: [PRR] Pennsy in New England? No, but Pennsy near Newport X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 88f5bb836a9428b0db021978b2b3cef1 John Ryan wrote: > I found this on E-bay. Did Pennsy go somewhere I didn't know about? > > Beautiful GRIF TELLER 1947 print of two Penn.r/r trains passing through > gorgeous rural New England countryside in fall season. Greetings to John and the List: Someone has taken a wild guess at labeling the scene. This would be the 1948 PRR calendar painting Progressive Power, painted and copyrighted in 1947, hence the year-earlier date. The scene is Milepost 123 on the Aqueduct Straight Line, between Duncannon and Newport, Pa., about 20 miles west of Harrisburg on the former Middle Division main line to Altoona. Dan Dan Cupper cupper@mciworld.com Luke 2:8 "And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks by night." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] American-made flextrack and switches Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:48:54 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a20bc57aa066e719a5c086439d9c853f PRR Gize: As far as flex track goes, there are two other manufacturers in the United States. The first is Precision Scale which is now out of Montana. They make a line of Code 70 and Code 83 flex track and "superelevated" track which one side of the ties have molded on shims. It is superelevated for a scale 3-1/2 inches. Even the rail gauge is spread (as per NMRA standards)to accommodate large wheel base engines and cars. I have installed this track on the curves my Ft. Wayne Division to make way for all of those PRR experimental Duplexes.... The overall quality of the PSC flex track is very similar to that of Micro Engineering. The other flex track made in the US is one buy Right-of-Way out of California. This track, IMHO, is the most detailed ties that I have seen for HO scale. Tie plates, rail spikes, anchor spikes(the spikes in the tie plate holes that are near the edges of the plates and not adjacent to the rail) and rail anchors cribbed on both side of every other rail or so. Speaking of turnouts, Micro Engineering will be coming out with #5 turnouts (don't ask me why) and then eventually #8 turnouts (Yeah!!) soon. I spoke with Micro Engineering last year so I do not know what their schedule is now. Diamonds are a problem though. Outside of Atlas, I think that Tru-scale and Bk(?) are the only ones who make diamonds. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: doug.kisala [mailto:doug.kisala@mciworld.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:59 PM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] American-made flextrack and switches Hello list, Now that Atlas' code 83 production is in China, I think that the only American manufactured flextrack and turnouts in codes 83 and smaller is Micro Engineering/Railcraft. Are there any other manufacturers lurking out there in the woods? Doug ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:57:03 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4ecfe3eb041daf88b36af1c680d469e1 Is that why the REA acquired some exPRR Horse express cars? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== BBReynolds@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 99-12-14 21:15:45 EST, Michael Allen wrote: > > << Fred, Barry et alia; > > During the waning days of REA service, the agency at Princeton > often received full baggage cars which were spotted on one of the team > tracks at the bottom of University Place. These were usually brought in > by the local freight which served the Heating plant and the lumberyard. > Somewhere in my mother's attic is an old polaroid print showing 9918 with > two hoppers, a Northern Pacific baggage car, and a caboose alongside the > platform at Princeton >> > > Check that Polaroid, Michael: if the baggage car is over 65' long and has end > doors, it was likely carrying racing shells built by George Pocock in Seattle. > Until the '70's, Pocock was the prime builder of wooden racing eights for the > college > market in the US; those sold to colleges in the East would be shipped by > railcar to Princeton for pickup by the various schools. I was given to > understand that Princeton was the location for delivery because it was > somewhat central to the primary Eastern Association of Rowing Colleges > schools (Georgetown on one limit, Cornell on another, Dartmouth on a third), > and that yard in Princeton was somewhat more protected than other locations, > so that the car would be left in Princeton until each school had an > opportunity to pick up its shell(s) in line with the various moves made > during the racing season. This practice was in place through the 1960's. > > I have been trying to gather more information on the shipping methods used > for racing shells before the current road trailer rigs used now. I have > assumed that scenery baggage cars were the most usual means, with the > exception of the Naval Academy, which used a wooden subchaser rigged with > racks from the end of WWI until 1933, when the Delaware and Raritan Canal > across New Jersey was closed. > > The special requirements of shipping a racing shell are extreme length (up to > 65') and extreme ease of damage (the wooden shells would weigh about 230 > lbs., with a skin of single ply softwood only one-eight inch thick). The > current carbon fibre shells are even lighter, but a bit more rugged: those > used in international competition must be sectionalized, so that they will > fit in a standard 40' container (this is supposed to equalize the "playing > field" for countries which can not afford to ship the shells in their full > length by air). > > So, if one finds a picture of a PRR scenery car (to get back to topic, and > there was recently a listing of PRR scenery cars on one of lists), set off in > a location which was > closer to a rowing venue than a vaudeville house, the possibility might be > that it > was shells that it was carrying. > > Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:09:52 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: flex track X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 73a87418509b50395c2628347d231bed Ted wrote: >As far as flex track goes, there are two other manufacturers in the United States. The first is Precision Scale which is now out of Montana. The other flex track made in the US is one buy Right-of-Way out of California. Ted, How do these compare in price and usage to Micro Engineering? and do you have an address for each? I didn't see either listed in the Walthers catalog? Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rla0220@enter.net Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:00:05 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Can anyone help X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 23aea0c532b276965dd122ab788f9cb0 Dear List, Does anyone know of any repair shops one someone who cleans engines on the side? A coworker of mine is in need of someone. He has a variety of engines in Lionel, HO, and N scales that were submerged in ~6" of water due to basement flooding. Some engines are prewar and worth a considerable amount of $. Does anyone have any suggestions or can do the job for him?? Thank you. Rich A ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andrews, Ted" Subject: RE: [PRR] Re: flex track Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:20:49 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 9ea7c36ca3c028627d85066328d0c227 Joel: Here is the address for Right of Way: The present owner is Lou Cross, 23682 Road 15 3/4, Chowchilla, Calif. 93610-9316. Telephone 559-665-1001 He will send a list and samples for an SSAE. The above information was provided to me by another on the PRR Talk-List. I do not know what the price is for this track at this time but it should be comparable to Micro Engineering. As for Precision Scale, Walthers does carry it because I have just ordered some last week. I do not have a copy of the new catalog so I don't exactly where Walthers placed it within the catalog. They come in bundles of 6 for $23.95 just under $4 apiece. Ted Andrews Carmel, Indiana -----Original Message----- From: JOELPRR@aol.com [mailto:JOELPRR@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:10 AM To: prr-talk@dsop.com Subject: [PRR] Re: flex track Ted wrote: >As far as flex track goes, there are two other manufacturers in the United States. The first is Precision Scale which is now out of Montana. The other flex track made in the US is one buy Right-of-Way out of California. Ted, How do these compare in price and usage to Micro Engineering? and do you have an address for each? I didn't see either listed in the Walthers catalog? Thanks, Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: rla0220@enter.net Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:58:22 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Follow up X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6b8f5f7cd70d81d2c0096903f4c7b66f Guys, Just to add to my request for help: Our geographic location is NE Penna. aprox 80 miles north of Philadelphia & 35min from Allentown. He is willing to ship the engines to someone reputable. Thankyou again Rich A ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:23:38 EST Subject: RE: [PRR] American-made flextrack and switches X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 56d575b6b0154da85929df8786192a6a Folks, Ted Andrews had written, in part : Speaking of turnouts, Micro Engineering will be coming out with #5 turnouts (don't ask me why) and then eventually #8 turnouts (Yeah!!) soon. I spoke with Micro Engineering last year so I do not know what their schedule is now. ------- i think the rationale for the #5 is their usefulness in yards. They can handle switching a lot better than #4's yet save a lot of space over a number 6. I also understand that prototype turnouts are more often found in odd sizes than even ones, though I can't swear to it. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:35:28 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 018631ae8dc3ba0ea06cb272918838c3 Andy and folks, I think the horse cars had been in express service for quite awhile before REA picked them up. Considering the seasonal nature of track meets, even in Pennsy territory, these cars probably saw a lot of general service. The Pennsy 40's-50's book and some photos in the PDY series show these cars in long mail trains, defineitely not hauling horses. Seems baggage type cars of over 60 ft length were always highly-prized for their large capacity (figure a B74 had almost 25% more room than a B60.) I recall an article in Main Line Modeler about B&O horse cars being used to haul strawberries back in the 1930's, so they got around. Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:37:45 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 01c97e682594c502f2f1936d3da36363 I recall the article. I wondered if that explained the strange flavor of some strawberries ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== BPX29@aol.com wrote (in part): > > Andy and folks, > I think the horse cars had been in express service for quite awhile before > REA picked them up. .. . . I > recall an article in Main Line Modeler about B&O horse cars being used to > haul strawberries back in the 1930's, so they got around. > Barry Peltier -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:15:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 16fb2f7a2aadb209bfb466fd4a07f31e Barry, Is there a date given for any photo which you think the Horse Cars are not hualing Horses but regular mail service? I can't see how the interrior setup of those Horse Cars would allow much room for express mail loadings. Perhaps the Horse Cars were gutted of their interriors by the time the cars seen regular mail express service, maybe early 50's? Was Horse Racing in the 30's and 40's seasonal? I don't think so. Horse racing was BIG. I would assume they seen alot of service to Florida and possibly California during winter races. The only quick way to get those horses delivered to the different tracks was by train and again, I assume these cars were too busy to be pulled in favor of mail service. My guess is the photos are of a later period, say mid 50's or later when the car may have been stripped of stalls and entered mail serice. Another interesting topic!!!.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:25:18 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Follow up X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4375c041bdab9dd12f3ac4ed7024d4ce Rich: I would recommend Marlow Mickey in Allentown. (He goes by the name: "Mickey") He is one of the premiere custom painters and restorers in the country. As good as he is, I don't believe he is over priced. He is very familiar with Lionel as well as other trains. He owns The Seventh Street Depot in Allentown, and can be reached at that location. I don't have the phone number of his store, but you can get it from information. The area code in Allentown is 610. Regards, Larry rla0220@enter.net wrote: > Guys, > Just to add to my request for help: > Our geographic location is NE Penna. aprox 80 miles north of > Philadelphia & 35min from Allentown. He is willing to ship the > engines to someone reputable. > Thankyou again > Rich A > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:53:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ee0721f9f91cbc9eeab1a0b90a2373b8 In a message dated 12/17/99 1:26:06 PM Central Standard Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << Is there a date given for any photo which you think the Horse Cars are not hualing Horses but regular mail service? I can't see how the interrior setup of those Horse Cars would allow much room for express mail loadings. Perhaps the Horse Cars were gutted of their interriors by the time the cars seen regular mail express service, maybe early 50's? >> The horse stalls folded up, making a very large capacity car. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:03:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7092ac309706740f8d2ee3c76bbb3757 Gary, This is indeed an interesting topic. Like many facets of the Pennsy world, this one keeps opening new Pandora's boxes. Most of the photos I've seen are from the early 1950's (lashups of PA/PB units in five stripe green and red mixed, etc). Definitely mail/express service. Yet one of the West Jersey Rails books has an article about race track trains showing a PRSL Baldwin putting together such a horse hauling train in 1963. Far as I know, tracks are seasonal and those in Jersey and Maryland have rotated their seasons so as not to compete with each other for many years. I should say seasonal in the sense of horse racing, not weather. For example, the Monmouth track had a 'season' set between Garden State and Atlantic City. The New York tracks often competed against them. Laurel, Bowie and Pimlieco did the same, but harness tracks often ran parrallel times (eg Brandywine and liberty Bell) I find the subject of railroads and horse racing so intertwined that a track is a major industry and passenger revenue source on my own layout. Oops...gotta run, will get back on this later. Regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:10:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] Scenery cars (was: Two Questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 56a9b417dab73adf947aa84845d67f64 Thanks Bob for the additional info. I didn't realize the folding stalls were available. That would explain aditional service for mail trains then...Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:56:39 EST Subject: [PRR] Derby City 1952 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e8fc19253dda00f6a77f84324592d4c4 In a message dated 12/17/99 4:07:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hal6963@aol.com writes: << 12. The Derby - Perishable-Merchandise Chicago to Indianapolis 13. The Colonial - Perishable-Merchandise Chicago to Louisville >> Harold, Thanks for your posting of PRR train names on the LDSIG list. Lots of the names listed in your posting make sense, or are at least plausible. It seems odd that "The Derby" went to Indy; the Kentucky Derby was a major media event associated with Louisville starting well before the beginning of the 20th century. But then, I've just been looking at Jack Fravert's color slides of Louisville Union Terminal on Derby Day in 1952. It looked to me like the PRR power may have been a mix of K4 and BP-20 (e.g, Baldwin passenger unit, 5779, in DGLE and five-stripe). In the same time period, there is a J-1 tied up at the 14th Street roundhouse (just south of Clagg and the drawbridge). No pix of T-1's yet, although a local fan remembers them coming into town on the elevated trackage between Clagg and Louisville Union Station. Much more on this later.. Rick Tipton Currently lost in the 1950's, with Jack's steam slides of the L&N, PRR, K&IT, Southern, C&O, and Big Four. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:56:12 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [PRRSignaling] ***Other, C&S, Early CTC, PRR, X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e01d5dfc1db3b356aed50792b1546930 In a message dated 99-12-16 07:35:54 EST, RickTipton@aol.com writes: << << Lines West Folks ? A name for #6, pls ? Help ! >> >> As of the early 50's, No.6 was called "The Allegheny", had St.Louis-Pittsburgh sleeper and Louisville-Pittsburgh sleeper-lounge. A train-numbering quirk: As of 12/52, there was no #5 or #7 shown in public TT's. They could have been solid mail/express. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:56:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Philly area questions X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 57df58a7b7dab5081febec8095393c20 In a message dated 99-12-16 08:26:19 EST, abbuchan@familyconnect.net writes: << Yes, there were two branches off the Chestnut Hill Branch - the Fort Washington Branch and the Midvale Branch. There was also a freight yard - Midvale Yard. >> Also, an old coal trestle used to be visible east of Upsal. Dunno if its still there, haven't been on the branch in a while. There was also some kind of facility east of Chelten Ave., north side (which was geographically the southwest side!!). I recall seeing freight cars at Chestnut Hill in my youth, have no idea who the shipper was. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:04:54 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Water tower X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5a217e532200da6fe194b54adebe02a Hi guys, I have a Dimi-trains kit in N-scale of a 50k gallon water tank. What colors should it be painted and are there any unique features that I can add to it that are PRR prototype? Thanks, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:54:44 -0500 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] ?C&P question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bc3ea797b6469d1758d5f73799f521a6 Hello- When did the C&P ally itself with PFtW&C? When did PRR lease these two railroads? The info I have on these dates is in conflict. thank you- Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:24:20 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] MTH PRR freight set X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fd80dbde971176312e9fd882c4dd64aa Hello list, It's still me, despite my second email address. I found out that MCI's internet doesn't yet allow me to remotely access my email, so I got this account with Yahoo, so I can check things from my parents' house while I'm there. My other address is still active, but I won't be using it for the holidays. Anyway, my MTH PRR freight set arrived on Thursday. This is only my second O gauge train set, though I've collected a few other pieces (MTH's K4s is what finally broke my resolve to stick solely with HO scale). The N5c that comes with the set is gorgeous, and I hope MTH eventually makes it available separately in the pre-1954 scheme. I managed to break two of the steps, but that will be fixed with a bit of glue. The H10s headlight is cast a bit low (I realize that mold requirments are what drove this), but the engine looks excellent (except for that weird keystone on each side of the cab). One of my engine's crankpin screws came loose as I broke the engine in; needlenose pliers soon had it squared away. This is the first train set I've acquired in 25 years (a Lionel PRR steam freight set from Fundimensions was under my tree on Christmas 1974), and I like it a whole bunch. It would be nice if MTH came out with a Rail King version of the E6s Atlantic (they have E6s 460 in their Premier line for their 1st 2000 catalog). Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 09:41:38 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Lambert PRR H6sb motor removal X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: beca8ea98be1e0fed6070281bcc13437 Hello list, I've successfully removed the boiler from my H6sb and I unsoldered the cab from the boiler. One burning question: how do I remove the motor from the torque arm? I see two small screws below the motor and there's a screw that passes from the top rear of the motor above the magnets through them and down into the torque arm. However, removing these three screws doesn't free the motor. What am I missing here? I'm going to stick with the factory motor for a while longer (ie until I can acquire and cram in a Mashima flat can motor as some of you listmembers suggested), but I'd like for the removal of the old motor to be less of a mystery. Thanks in advance! Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:00:05 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ?C&P question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cc2764eb065777b13c3b9b0d30fe1f59 In a message dated Sat, 18 Dec 1999 8:01:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff Knorek writes: > Hello- > When did the C&P ally itself with PFtW&C? > When did PRR lease these two railroads? > > The info I have on these dates is in conflict. > > thank you- > Jeff Knorek > jknorek@msen.com Jeff, Since I'm writing this at the library its off the top of my head. My memory from the Centennial History by Burgess & Kennedy is that the PFTW&CRYC constructed or financed the Cleveland & Pittsburg line during the late 1850s. As a Fort Wayne System subsidiary it became a member of the PRR family when the PFTW&C leased itself to the PRRCo. for 999 years in 1869. I'm not sure of the date of the C&P construction. I am sure that it was built by the Fort Wayne and was undeerr its control when J.E. Thompson consolidated the core of PRR lines west in 1869 and 1870. PRR Lines West Forever!!!! Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:51:25 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: [PRR] Victorian houses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4a76284c358cd8139e0813870bba398d Hi folks, I have some kits of Victorian style houses with nice gabling and such. Is there much of that kind of housing in PRR land? Thanks, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:08:58 +0000 Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) CRTS Update #12-83 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 79ea6242d70feccd062bb305755ec4ff I thought that maybe some of you would find this interesting Roger ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:46:03 -0800 From: John Krattinger CRTS Update #12-83 Saturday, December 18th, 1999 at 17:45 EST FORMER CONRAIL SD40's GET NEW LEASE ON LIFE: Locomotive Leasing partners recently transfered 10 SD40's to parent EMD to use as "owed power" to various customers, namely Union Pacific. The 10 SD40's were shipped to VMV Enterprises in Paducah, KY and are being rebuilt to Union Pacific's specifications as SD40-2's and are to be numbered as Union Pacific 4766 through 4775. Hard to believe that in 1999 that a former Central Railroad of New Jersey (CNJ) and six former Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) SD40's would be alive and well on Union Pacific! The heritage of the units is as follows: UP 4766 former Southern Pacific 7399 UP 4767 former Southern Pacific 7318 UP 4768 former EMDX 6414, Conrail 6315, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6062 UP 4769 former EMDX 6415, Conrail 6323, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6070 UP 4770 former EMDX 6417, Conrail 6291, Central Railroad of New Jersey 3067 UP 4771 former EMDX 6418, Conrail 6316, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6063 UP 4772 former EMDX 6424, Conrail 6329, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6076 UP 4773 former EMDX 6428, Conrail 6327, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6074 UP 4774 former EMDX 6430, Conrail 6357, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6104 UP 4775 former EMDX 6505, Louisville & Nashville 8345 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: TGREGMRTN@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:47:18 EST Subject: [PRR] Are we watching? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7938ccbd30b43920f38a9bd90ce1ded9 Folks, Are we all watching the latest in Rail News? Another merger has been announced as reported by the Journal of Commerce. Yes, another SUPER MERGER! Check this out at: http://www.joc.com/issues/updatestories99/brief1.htm It is the purposed merger of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway and the Canadian National. It only stands to reason. The financially troubled BNSF is seeking a partner. It is no secrete on Wall Street that the BNSF has been burdened with merger debt and is struggling to stay afloat. However much of the Rail News has focused on UP's shipping problems on the West Coast and their safety issues of their MEGA-Merger. Lucky for the UP the NS/CSX operational problems in the Northeast have kept the heat off of the Western shippers. So let's speculate on who will be next to announce a merger... KCS and who(m)? Check it out... Greg Martin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "walter mcwilliams" Subject: Re: [PRR] Victorian houses Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 08:16:36 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f4b7f7ef313afc33fa85c4ddce0ffa73 In my area of the PRR Franklin, Oil City, and Warren PA are all well known for their Victorian style houses. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Elliott To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 6:55 PM Subject: [PRR] Victorian houses >Hi folks, >I have some kits of Victorian style houses with nice gabling and such. >Is there much of that kind of housing in PRR land? > >Thanks, >Roger Elliott > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) CRTS Update #12-83 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 08:55:12 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7015f9badebac7944c76a41749ce294a Gee! SD 40s are almost as long lived as GG1s! White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: Roger P. Hensley To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:16 PM Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) CRTS Update #12-83 I thought that maybe some of you would find this interesting Roger ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:46:03 -0800 From: John Krattinger CRTS Update #12-83 Saturday, December 18th, 1999 at 17:45 EST FORMER CONRAIL SD40's GET NEW LEASE ON LIFE: Locomotive Leasing partners recently transfered 10 SD40's to parent EMD to use as "owed power" to various customers, namely Union Pacific. The 10 SD40's were shipped to VMV Enterprises in Paducah, KY and are being rebuilt to Union Pacific's specifications as SD40-2's and are to be numbered as Union Pacific 4766 through 4775. Hard to believe that in 1999 that a former Central Railroad of New Jersey (CNJ) and six former Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) SD40's would be alive and well on Union Pacific! The heritage of the units is as follows: UP 4766 former Southern Pacific 7399 UP 4767 former Southern Pacific 7318 UP 4768 former EMDX 6414, Conrail 6315, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6062 UP 4769 former EMDX 6415, Conrail 6323, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6070 UP 4770 former EMDX 6417, Conrail 6291, Central Railroad of New Jersey 3067 UP 4771 former EMDX 6418, Conrail 6316, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6063 UP 4772 former EMDX 6424, Conrail 6329, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6076 UP 4773 former EMDX 6428, Conrail 6327, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6074 UP 4774 former EMDX 6430, Conrail 6357, Penn Central/Pennsylvania Railroad 6104 UP 4775 former EMDX 6505, Louisville & Nashville 8345 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Craig Berndt" Subject: Re: [PRR] ?C&P question Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 09:09:51 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5a94ee196c2768076bd9f6b4f948089 PFtW&C was organized in 1856 as a consolidation of three railroads and included 338 miles of line of which 38 were in Indiana. They incorporated and reorganized under the same name in 1860. They eventually controlled 468 miles from Pittsburgh to Chicago when construction to Chicago was completed in 1860. The three PFtW&C pre-1856 companies included : (1) Ohio and Pennsylvania Railroad Co. (1848 company) with 188 miles from Allegheny to Crestline completed in 1853. (2) Ohio and Indiana Railroad Co. (1850 company) with 132 miles from Crestline to Ft. Wayne completed in 1852-54. (?) (3) Ft. Wayne and Chicago Railroad Co. (1852 company - Indiana; 1853 company - Illinois) with about 19 miles (Ft. Wayne to Columbia City, Indiana) completed 1856, and 45 miles to Plymouth, Indiana partially completed. >From 1862-69 PFtW&C was managed by PFtW&C, C&P, and receivers. From 1869-71 PFtW&C was managed by C&P and PRR under lease to PRR. Thereafter managed by the Pennsylvania Company under assignment of lease from PRR. Sort that out????? Craig Berndt -----Original Message----- Hello- When did the C&P ally itself with PFtW&C? When did PRR lease these two railroads? The info I have on these dates is in conflict. thank you- Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Josh Trower" Subject: [PRR] O catenary Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 12:00:50 EST X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6995282fec7cb73ac7711c1ce31f5035 Does anyone know of any companies that make catenary for "O"? Are there any online? Thanks in advance. -Josh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] O scale Cantenary Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:03:08 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 86e0d4cb7dbce4812436388c4f0b1e0a House of Duddy makes O scale cantenary. He has a diagram/ photo he sends along with it. Greg Stone PRRTHS member special interest Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PRRMAN@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:46:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Victorian houses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ad6cc5fcd0c2eca573d70c6021dd40a6 Cape May, NJ is full of them. But if you are a "date purist", you must consider that Cape May became P-RSL territory in 1933. It's not hard to find Victorian houses along the Philly commuter routes either, particularly the Delaware County area and Chestnut Hill. Rich Copeland ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:00:29 EST Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch - PA - Bergan Tower X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a5456aa5168b162e9e48cd59426f40e3 I've been looking for a photo that shows the exterior of Bergan Tower, located on the Elmira Branch just south of Marsh Hill Junction (with the S&NY RR). Pennsy Power II has a photo taken from inside the tower looking out. Edward Kaseman's book on the S&NY has two photos that show a small part of the exterior (the towerman is hooping up orders to train crews). If anyone knows of any photos, published or not published, that give a good idea of what the exterior of the tower looked like, please let me know. I'm interested in modeling it. Thanks. Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 sny114@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:07:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch track charts - Bill Volkmer X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c41d6c7ef8f011b57bc6556288bd31b1 In a message posted Sept. 8, 1999, Bill Volkmer said that he had tif files of Elmira Branch trackcharts. He also said that if anyone wanted a copy, we should just e-mail him and he would send the files. I can't find Bill's e-mail address, though. If you read this, Bill, I would be very interested in receiving copies of those files. Even just the first 21 miles from Williamsport north, as my modeling interest is in the section Trout Run to Roaring Branch. Many thanks. Happy Holidays to all! Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 sny114@aol.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:18:11 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 46f7b28774bdd4b01dbd851c616ed523 In a message dated 12/19/99 7:13:18 AM Mountain Standard Time, jimsix@ncweb.com writes: << Frankly, I think we would all be better off as a nation of the railroads were "unmerged," that is, if the mega-merger process was reversed. >> That is a very true statement. For one very simple reason. It will restore something that this country was built on, and is starting to disappear. That is competition. Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:55:42 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fd8f24a7e8823582fbfd5d0fa60e3d23 > >That is a very true statement. For one very simple reason. It will restore >something that this country was built on, and is starting to disappear. That >is competition. > >Stuart And that is the ultimate irony in all of this, Stuart. We were sold this unfortunate Bill of Goods with the Conrail take-over in the name of fostering "more competition." How is that, considering we HAD three railroads, and we NOW have two? And that doesn't even BEGIN to address the resulting chaos. Greed. Pure. Simple. Incredible Greed. Greed personified by David LeVan. Terry ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:43:23 -0800 From: Roger Elliott Subject: Re: [PRR] Victorian houses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 01e9c2fda308c3360e0df9718fc9fa47 Hi Guys, Just wanted to thank everyone for giving me some input about Victorian-style house in PA. I've got a few of IHC's kits and I just wanted to be sure they wouldn't be too out of place on my layout. I was afraid they might be a little too "San Francisco" looking. Cheers, Roger Elliott ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BBReynolds@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:29:34 EST Subject: [PRR] C&P dates X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 303b7a6a943bf6e06bddfe6e60310783 In a message dated 99-12-18 17:07:29 EST, you write: << Jeff, Since I'm writing this at the library its off the top of my head. My memory from the Centennial History by Burgess & Kennedy is that the PFTW&CRYC constructed or financed the Cleveland & Pittsburg line during the late 1850s. As a Fort Wayne System subsidiary it became a member of the PRR family when the PFTW&C leased itself to the PRRCo. for 999 years in 1869. I'm not sure of the date of the C&P construction. I am sure that it was built by the Fort Wayne and was undeerr its control when J.E. Thompson consolidated the core of PRR lines west in 1869 and 1870. PRR Lines West Forever!!!! Tom V. >> Tom's memory working well: pp. 182-183 of Burgess and Kennedy has C&P chartered in 1836, built to Wellsville OH by 1852, and to Rochester PA and connection with the Fort Wayne by 1856. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: [PRR] Re: [MIDEASTmodeler] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:25:40 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6dc8bf0a613e6d455371763f050af2de >From: S C Sillato > > >Wait a few years. After all the mega mergers, the big railroads will >start spinning off operations that "can't make money" and we'll have more >regionals than you can count. > Absolutely, Steve! An extension of my "Pendulum Effect" theory. Eventually this merger-mania will get so ridiculous that it will all go back the other way. "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it." -----Original Message----- From: S C Sillato To: Jim Six Cc: ljack70117@earthlink.net ; TGREGMRTN@aol.com ; ELM2@aol.com ; Mksme@aol.com ; AlbertSR@aol.com ; JFuhrtrain@aol.com ; Stuthayer@aol.com ; VRYODER@aol.com ; ShenangoRS@aol.com ; johnhwrignt@nmrabr.freeuk.com ; markkerlick@att.net ; JWelther@aol.com ; STEVEGG1@aol.com ; Ederouin@aol.com ; RGSPEMKT@aol.com ; rljack@pathway.net ; CALLOWAYW@aol.com ; dbourque@juno.com ; LINESWEST@aol.com ; Engrchip@aol.com ; kris.kollar@paharr.ang.af.mil ; stibb@primenet.com ; PIXELS@ameritech.net ; Paul Bizier ; DanMelMayorgas@email.msn.com ; bill@branchline-trains.com ; mrgmag@email.msn.com ; asperandeo@mrmag.com ; hundman@accessone.com ; Jeff Evans ; miracle-castings@on.aibn.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com ; MIDEASTmodeler@onelist.com ; MIDWESTmodeler@onelist.com ; NEModelers@onelist.com ; Conmeyer1@aol.com ; Giddens@cheetah.net ; gary.giddens@aerojet.com ; gphannes@earthlink.net ; PatHeger@juno.com ; "tedjl@home.com.Wmeyer"@fullerton.edu <"tedjl@home.com.Wmeyer"@fullerton.edu>; Stratsrail@aol.com ; Volzwgn@aol.com ; tom.volz@parsons.com ; agsteven@raaf.defence.gov.au ; pcl@railnet.nshore.org ; STACKTALK@aol.com ; dstorzek@elnet.com ; ppw-aline@worldnet.att.net ; bowser@mail.csrlink.net Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [MIDEASTmodeler] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? >From: S C Sillato > > >Wait a few years. After all the mega mergers, the big railroads will >start spinning off operations that "can't make money" and we'll have more >regionals than you can count. > >Steve Sillato NYC, LV, GBW & ALCo fan >"Baseball was made for kids, grown-ups only screw it up" Bob Lemon > > >On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, Jim Six wrote: > >> From: "Jim Six" >> >> Frankly, I think we would all be better off as a nation of the railroads >> were "unmerged," that is, if the mega-merger process was reversed. >> >> Jim Six >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >> Five decades of modeling the ACL, NKP, NYC, and SAL >> I may not make them "perfect," but I make them BELIEVABLE! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >> Post message: MIDEASTmodeler@onelist.com >> Subscribe: MIDEASTmodeler-subscribe@onelist.com >> Unsubscribe: MIDEASTmodeler-unsubscribe@onelist.com >> List owner: MIDEASTmodeler-owner@onelist.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "lawrence jackman" >> To: >> Cc: ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; "Paul Bizier" ; >> ; ; >> ; ; ; >> "Jeff Evans" ; ; >> ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; ; >> ; <"tedjl@home.com.Wmeyer"@fullerton.edu>; >> ; ; ; >> ; ; >> ; ; ; >> >> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 4:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [pcl] Are we watching? >> >> >> > One day it will probably be the US of A railroad. Only one with a lot of >> short >> > lines >> > Larry >> > >> > TGREGMRTN@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > > Folks, >> > > >> > > Are we all watching the latest in Rail News? Another merger has been >> > > announced as reported by the Journal of Commerce. Yes, another SUPER >> MERGER! >> > > Check this out at: http://www.joc.com/issues/updatestories99/brief1.htm >> > > >> > > It is the purposed merger of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway >> and the >> > > Canadian National. It only stands to reason. The financially troubled >> BNSF >> > > is seeking a partner. It is no secrete on Wall Street that the BNSF has >> been >> > > burdened with merger debt and is struggling to stay afloat. However >> much of >> > > the Rail News has focused on UP's shipping problems on the West Coast >> and >> > > their safety issues of their MEGA-Merger. Lucky for the UP the NS/CSX >> > > operational problems in the Northeast have kept the heat off of the >> Western >> > > shippers. So let's speculate on who will be next to announce a >> merger... KCS >> > > and who(m)? >> > > >> > > Check it out... >> > > Greg Martin >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > MIDEASTmodeler is the MID-EAST region of the MRA, Model Railroader's Association. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >MIDEASTmodeler is the MID-EAST region of the MRA, Model Railroader's Association. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] lettering ,G29A or G29B Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:00:00 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7926a3b3a0e581b265ea4b3b13fc93fd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4AC0.36C7C020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list,=20 1.I need guidance regards lettering of G29A/B. What is the arrangement = for the data circa 1952? A pic or diagram would be greatly appreciated. 2.(bear with me as non-Pennsy) Assembled Tichy depressed center flat. My = records indicate PRR didn't own this model. Ok, which railroads seen = around Pittsburgh did? And could someone provide a lettering = arrangement? (pic or diagram). Thanks in advance, Walt Prusick=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4AC0.36C7C020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
1.I need guidance regards lettering of = G29A/B. What=20 is the arrangement for the data circa 1952? A pic or diagram would be = greatly=20 appreciated.
2.(bear with me as non-Pennsy) = Assembled Tichy=20 depressed center flat. My records indicate PRR didn't own = this model.=20 Ok, which railroads seen around Pittsburgh did? And could someone = provide a=20 lettering arrangement? (pic or diagram).
Thanks in advance,
Walt = Prusick 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF4AC0.36C7C020-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Stuthayer@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:09:24 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 93748079354c62f047215712f5794dbe In a message dated 12/19/99 3:59:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, tstuart@forcomm.net writes: << And that is the ultimate irony in all of this, Stuart. We were sold this unfortunate Bill of Goods with the Conrail take-over in the name of fostering "more competition." How is that, considering we HAD three railroads, and we NOW have two? And that doesn't even BEGIN to address the resulting chaos. >> Im just glad I'm not a North Eastern manufacturer that relies on rail transportation. If I was, I would probably be feeling the pinch by now. Stuart ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: JOELPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:35:57 EST Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 90f9fa8dfa6e071d11c1f5f9faa2de0a Is anyone else having trouble returning their dues to the PRRT&HS? The return envelope is the same one that was mailed to me and still has my bar code on the back. I guess the post office "read" that one and returned it to me. Is this just a coinsidence or is this going to be a problem? Joel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 11:33:41 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0f86b9eebd3314e0106b5874e923e29e > >Im just glad I'm not a North Eastern manufacturer that relies on rail >transportation. If I was, I would probably be feeling the pinch by now. > >Stuart Good point, Stuart! We know of at least a couple manufacturers who have been forced out of business by the NS inability to service them. Auto makers are using trucks and CSX whenever possible. One of the "selling points" NS used to put this foolishness over on the STB (wonder if their individual Swiss bank accounts have seen any increased balances in recent months?) is that "20% of the highway trucks in Conrail territory would be taken OFF the highways." The REALITY is there are more trucks than ever before! An unemployed truck driver in this region is unheard of, unless he has a string of points on his license, or has no license. Otherwise, he's working hard... clogging up the highways... trying to deliver the freight that Conrail USED to deliver on time. Yes, God help the shippers. NS certainly won't. CSX is trying. But it's a sad state of affairs... all this "increased competition." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Prr1187@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:34:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Victorian houses X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ba15013ed62644e604174f83b96955b5 What I do to the San Francisco houses to make them look better for PRR territory, is to lower them by cutting away the lower "Garage/basement" portion. I want the basement to be mostly in the ground. I make a brick foundation to set the wood house on. I also shorten it from front to back, by cutting the side right by the chimney, thereby cutting the chimney off. Dennis S. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [MIDEASTmodeler] Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:05:58 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f758ae476197d83a7ca8dedd63dabb4c Get this, Buckeye Steel, the >maker of steel castings for trucks, is shipping trucks to GE(Columbus, OH >to Erie, PA) on flatbed semi's! I saw them headed north on I-71! > > Now that you point it out, Steve... there are more FLATBED trucks on the highways, too. There are just MORE TRUCKS!!! BTW, one fellow reported on another list that NS failed for THREE SOLID WEEKS to service a steel shipper in Cleveland that Conrail serviced EVERY DAY. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:33:59 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Jordon Spreaders From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8008ac82f3f53db83aaed5fbce214e0c When did the PRR acquire its first Jordon Spreaders? --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:38:26 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 864441b7348158c6b49a4b91fd154453 >>Im just glad I'm not a North Eastern manufacturer that relies on rail >>transportation. If I was, I would probably be feeling the pinch by now. I work for a Fortune 200 manufacturer in the northeast and we've had delivery problems of critical raw materials all over out system in the east. The VP of purchasing is a friend of mine and she's been beside herself keeping NS from shutting down one of our plants! Trucks everywhere, and we had to upgrade some receiving docks to be able to handle that much material by truck! Just mention NS to her and she instantly goes ballistic! Just one example. Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Sean121982@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:52:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3eff3ec852360890bdabe1e34610c55 My uncle works for a plant that makes parts for the aerospace indistry in Cleveland. His plant gets about a dozen carloads of steel a day. Before June 1st, CR reliably delivered this steel to his plant. Now, the plant is lucky if NS can deliver 1 or 2 cars a week. He couldn't get any rail service for more than 2 months after the merger. Sean McDonnell ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Cathatjim@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:12:03 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 20bffcae1152aeb97a91b6fe1a51a258 I haven't received my latest keystone, much less a dues renewal form. I'm just getting ready to contact them and find out what happened Jim 6414 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:36:39 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3c1b7a1aff214b7c1a1de4e55c08236 Just received my "Keystone" and dues form....... I guess the mail is running slow this Christmas. For those who just want to mail in the National Dues: Dues are Regular $35.00 Sustaining $45.00 Contributing $50.00 or more (foreign postage add $10.00) Lewistown Archive & Station Project Donations__________ Dues paid after February 15, 2000.......add $3.00 Dues can be mailed to : PRRT&HS P.O. BOX 460 GLENMOORE, PA. 19343-0460 I hope this helps some of you that are having mail problems..... Bill Knepper PRRT&HS # 1818 (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. -----Original Message----- From: Cathatjim@aol.com To: Prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues >I haven't received my latest keystone, much less a dues renewal form. I'm >just getting ready to contact them and find out what happened >Jim 6414 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:41:29 -0500 From: DDembinski Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c733b93693b5a6ebe4868cb390779e0e I got my Keystone about a week or so ago, but not the renewal form. I live in Ohio, which seems to make a difference; the further you are from eastern PA, the longer it takes to get the Keystone. Cathatjim@aol.com wrote: > I haven't received my latest keystone, much less a dues renewal form. I'm > just getting ready to contact them and find out what happened > Jim 6414 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:42:08 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bb547ea956464377f9f0b250c10070c3 On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 Cathatjim@aol.com wrote: > I haven't received my latest keystone, much less a dues renewal form. I'm > just getting ready to contact them and find out what happened > Jim 6414 My dues renewal came in today's mail. Be patient. -D 6116 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:50:46 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b322da178234f79a831fbb9ef4207313 Well, all I can say is my "keystone " must have been shipped by the "Lines west guys" because I live south of Harrisburg....And I just got mine !! and that's after you got yours........ I think it is a post office problem...... -----Original Message----- From: DDembinski To: Cathatjim@aol.com Cc: Prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues >I got my Keystone about a week or so ago, but not the renewal form. I live in Ohio, which >seems to make a difference; the further you are from eastern PA, the longer it takes to >get the Keystone. > > >Cathatjim@aol.com wrote: > >> I haven't received my latest keystone, much less a dues renewal form. I'm >> just getting ready to contact them and find out what happened >> Jim 6414 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >> "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:13:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b93dc5683b52304acc3ce5230ab4c5c9 List, I just recieved an email from someone who visited one of my homepages. The message included a URL with some pretty neat pics. I thought I would share these with the list. Boy would I like to see this thing run!!!.....Gary Check it out: http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~www/shop/edst1.html Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "lew matt" Subject: Re: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:25:51 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0f6ff8d0c1dd5918d0699111ae4f9f49 I crossed my address off with a black marker before I mailed mine, and added the words "to" in big bold letters in front of the PRRT&HS address. Lew White Buck Farm is a certified organic grower that markets a wide selection of jams, jellies, pickles, dried fruits and vegetables and herbs. We are located in Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA WHITE BUCK FARM IS A CERTIFIED ORGANIC GROWER AND FOLLOWS RIGID ORGANIC GROWING TECHNIQUES E-mail your snail-mail address to us for our current price list for our all-natural jams, jellies, preserves, relishes and pickles. -----Original Message----- From: JOELPRR@aol.com To: prr-talk@dsop.com Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:45 AM Subject: [PRR] PRRT&HS Dues >Is anyone else having trouble returning their dues to the PRRT&HS? The >return envelope is the same one that was mailed to me and still has my bar >code on the back. I guess the post office "read" that one and returned it to >me. Is this just a coinsidence or is this going to be a problem? > >Joel > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 20:31:41 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8497fa1942575866c142f01676167ef7 WOOOWWWW. What a machine. Like to see that with a fire in it's belly. Now can find away to multiply that size by 12. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 21:59:46 EST Subject: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a6106bc8ccf41c47dd0eda487fee5779 In a message dated 12/20/1999 7:21:28 PM Central Standard Time, mittner@webtv.net writes: << I just recieved an email from someone who visited one of my homepages. The message included a URL with some pretty neat pics. I thought I would share these with the list. Boy would I like to see this thing run!!!.....Gary >> I'm in love :-) Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Shelb68man@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:27:29 EST Subject: [PRR] Delaware PRR Viaduct listed on Nat'l Reg. of Historic X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ecf9e64d4aceadd15d06a1032a032e95 Hi everyone, I just thought an article (front page no less) I found in Delaware's The News Journal was interesting. This past November 10th the Wilmington Rail Viaduct was added to the National Park Service's list of the nation's most significant historic sites. This 3 mile "S" shaped structure built in 1908 by Pennsy's chief engineer-William H. Brown raised the PRR tracks above city streets in Wilmington, DE. The article goes on in describing this stone, brick and steel viaduct as "quite attractive in terms of workmanship","imposing","a work of art," "really very beautiful" and "an extremely defining feature for the city." I agree with all of these descriptions. It now joins Wilmington's PRR Station which was added to the National Register in 1976. It was hoped that Amtrak might spruce it up (clean up some of the graffiti) but they didn't even know it was on the list and had no comment! Oh well. Still it's nice to know that another part of the Pennsy is nationally recognized and appreciated by some. C. Chandler ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] X 42 decal Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 21:03:59 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bb3627bd6fa6557289771009524314ab Does anyone offer a decal or dry transfer for the X 42 mail boxcar in O scale? I am looking for the ball keystone version as shown in the latest keystone. I think someone mentioned Middle Division offers it in HO. Do they offer it in O scale? --Greg Stone PRRT&HS 1703 Special interest in Renovo Yards ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:03:36 -0500 (EST) From: bubbles@visi.net Subject: Re: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8353b753826c9a0f7e4fa29be3a4ec5d Hi... Hmmmm a T-1 in steam.... Don't forget this one from the same site. http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~www/shop/prrg5.html Til Later H.Mummert ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Vastano,Sam" Subject: Re: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:04:52 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0fcb05e8c24fd1c518dae740f467203a I only wish I had half their talent!!!!!!!!!!!! Sam -----Original Message----- From: bubbles@visi.net To: PRR-TALK@dsop.com Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! > > Hi... > > Hmmmm a T-1 in steam.... > > Don't forget this one from the same site. > > http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~www/shop/prrg5.html > > Til Later > H.Mummert > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Miracle Castings Inc." Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [pcl] Are we watching? Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:24:53 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4450140978fd4d2cd6e5baf89eafa580 Hi! There was an article in yesterday's paper here in Brantford announcing the "merger". Somehow I don't think that this type of merger will cause the type of confusion that was caused by the UP/SP or Conrail/NS/CSX ones. BNSF and CN are totally separate systems that don't really serve the same areas. There's no redundant staff or systems, as was the case with those other mergers. I'm sure there will be problems, but somehow I doubt they will be on the same scale as the other fiascos mentioned. Pat Lawless ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:37:08 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: Are we watching? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8e033adb46a763ae84e1fec50a2bb801 Terry wrote: > > And that is the ultimate irony in all of this, Stuart. We were sold this > unfortunate Bill of Goods with the Conrail take-over in the name of > fostering "more competition." How is that, considering we HAD three > railroads, and we NOW have two? And that doesn't even BEGIN to address the > resulting chaos. > > Greed. Pure. Simple. Incredible Greed. > > Greed personified by David LeVan. HUH? Since when do railroads in this country compete with other railroads, for the most part....not for twenty years, and probably should have NOT even been thinking about other RR competition way before that, it's the truckers, barges, pipleines and slurrys, not each other................and good for the shipper and the public, they (the RR's) are finally beginning to see it that way. FWIW....And just wait until someone gets bright enough to not only cross the Mississippi, but actually run thru that 150 year old barrier. Even the truckers figured that one out from day one ! And finally enuf of the endless blah... blah... blah about poor service, yes it needs to get fixed, and it will (or the free market will do it for them) but how would you like to double in size or more overnight and not have problems. We were nieve to think they (UP, NS, etc) could do it without some problems. Sometimes those of us who recreationally study the RRs think we know it all. You have to have been in the trenches (and not in the steam days) to understand the dynamics of today's free transportation market from both a user and provder perspective. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:22:09 -0500 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] Branch name? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 161f8ed4f82984d70bac614dbc225003 Taking an interest in the line from Newberry to Elmira. Can someone please tell me the official name of this branch so I can start gathering some information about it. Thanks Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:52:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Update at CIRIN From: EJ Caylor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a3b88918c9dfa1af46d0161af442e7f5 More pictures and another sound wave added to the Central Indiana Railroad Information Network. Hope you all get a chance to see it. E.J. Caylor Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:49:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Jordon Spreaders X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7ddecd639c700cf4386c8bcc59253e54 In a message dated 12/20/1999 2:41:44 PM Central Standard Time, jerry@pennsyrr.com writes: << When did the PRR acquire its first Jordon Spreaders? >> Anybody ever answer this? Only reference I see is the unit pictured in PPIII which is quoted as being built in 1951. Since the units were "invented" in 1900 and Jordan's East Chicago, Indiana, plant started in 1910 (early units were built by the railroads to the design) , I would surmise that Pennsy had them prior to that. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] bear with me.. Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:52:41 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2cb0c8d0012b2542992dcdd2e8b6cd57 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF4C59.E78DE660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list,=20 At the risk of being 'booed', I need drawings/plans for a B&O wagon top = caboose. Can someone provide a sit or address in order to obtain said = info. Seems I have a "multi-cultural" family (Dad & daughter-Pennsy, = Mom-B&O, son-undicided,he is only 5, but I am working on him). This = explains one of the reasons my 'dream' layout will be situated around = Braddock, PA. In that area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and the Union = Railroad (serving the steel mills). Well thanks in advance and a=20 Merry Christmas Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF4C59.E78DE660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
At the risk of being 'booed', I need = drawings/plans=20 for a B&O wagon top caboose. Can someone provide a sit or address in = order=20 to obtain said info. Seems I have a "multi-cultural" family (Dad &=20 daughter-Pennsy, Mom-B&O, son-undicided,he is only 5, but I am = working on=20 him). This explains one of the reasons my 'dream' layout will be = situated around=20 Braddock, PA. In that area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and the Union = Railroad=20 (serving the steel mills). Well thanks in advance and a
    Merry=20 Christmas
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF4C59.E78DE660-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Peter Reinhold Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Track Charts Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:48:01 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0d0760f2c262507be6e2d0792459c054 Hi and Seasons Greetings to the List, I'm in the planning stages of a HO layout of the Elmira Branch from Southport yard north to ? (that's why I say planning, don't know how much I can accurately model in my space). I'm looking for track charts so I can do it right or at least try to. I would welcome any ideas from the list on this project (please contact me directly). Thanks in advance Peter R Reinhold Prairie Du Sac, Wi. preinhol@unidie.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Gripp, William [NCSUS]" Subject: [PRR] FS: Brass HO 0-8-0 Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:06:50 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1c3f26ab1f6136b46660973034329094 Gem(?) brass HO PRR 0-8-0. NOB, tarnished. $250 plus shipping. If interested email wgripp@ncsus.jnj.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] bear with me.. Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:33:42 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bd353a07e04dba35b3712772d4434349 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF4BA7.3CA178A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This explains one of the reasons my 'dream' layout will be situated = around Braddock, PA. In that area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and the Union = Railroad (serving the steel mills). That is MOST intriguing... The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP is located along the = Beaver River, in full view of NS (ex-PRR Ft. Wayne and Youngstown lines) = and CSX (ex-P&LE). The closest steel mill operation would have to be = the the remains of the Aliquippa & Southern. A VERY interesting = concept, Walt. =20 -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick To: Pennsy Talk Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 9:25 AM Subject: [PRR] bear with me.. =20 =20 Dear list,=20 At the risk of being 'booed', I need drawings/plans for a B&O wagon = top caboose. Can someone provide a sit or address in order to obtain = said info. Seems I have a "multi-cultural" family (Dad & = daughter-Pennsy, Mom-B&O, son-undicided,he is only 5, but I am working = on him). This explains one of the reasons my 'dream' layout will be = situated around Braddock, PA. In that area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and = the Union Railroad (serving the steel mills). Well thanks in advance and = a=20 Merry Christmas Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF4BA7.3CA178A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This explains one of the reasons my 'dream' layout will be situated = around=20 Braddock, PA. In that area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and the Union = Railroad=20 (serving the steel mills).
 
That is MOST intriguing...  The FALLSTON = FLAGSTOP is=20 located along the Beaver River, in full view of NS (ex-PRR Ft. Wayne and = Youngstown lines) and CSX (ex-P&LE).  The closest steel mill = operation=20 would have to be the the remains of the Aliquippa & Southern.  = A VERY=20 interesting concept, Walt.
 
 
 
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Walt Prusick <walpru@stargate.net>
To:= =20 Pennsy Talk <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Wednesday, December 22, 1999 9:25 AM
Subject: [PRR] = bear with=20 me..

Dear list,
At the risk of being 'booed', I = need=20 drawings/plans for a B&O wagon top caboose. Can someone provide = a sit or=20 address in order to obtain said info. Seems I have a=20 "multi-cultural" family (Dad & daughter-Pennsy, = Mom-B&O,=20 son-undicided,he is only 5, but I am working on him). This explains = one of=20 the reasons my 'dream' layout will be situated around Braddock, PA. = In that=20 area one has the Pennsy, B&O, and the Union Railroad (serving = the steel=20 mills). Well thanks in advance and a
    = Merry=20 Christmas
Walt=20 Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01BF4BA7.3CA178A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] Branch name? Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:48:19 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 49ae63ae46500b00a91ebdc4d008fe09 I believe it's the Elmira Branch. Try Bill Coloroso's book by the same name. It's out of print but you can find copies with a little digging. The Bowser website has photos of the Williamsport end posted. There are some real Elmira Branch fans around. It was a fascinating piece of railroading. . . even though I'm an Elmira area local, I'm modeling another part of the PRR! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: Mike Morrow To: PRR-Talk Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 7:33 PM Subject: [PRR] Branch name? >Taking an interest in the line from Newberry to Elmira. Can someone >please tell me the official name of this branch so I can start gathering >some information about it. Thanks >Mike > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:16:45 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] bear with me.. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1a44149f5c577ca4b0856feac0c069ec --On Mit, 22. Dez 1999 08:52 -0800 "Walt Prusick" wrote: > ... Seems I have a "multi-cultural" family (Dad &daughter-Pennsy, Mom-B&O, > son-undicided,he is only 5, but I am working on him). Actually, this seems like the best of both worlds! BTW, ever wish someone would come out with some "trademark" B&O stuff in Bowser-like kit form (like the caboose you mention or the beautiful, symetrical wooden ones)? Vagel Keller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Jake & Louie (old A&S) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 12:31:31 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4783c7fc41c8db376c742a37258a58c4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF4C78.7A081600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry, Nice to see someone remembers those 'old' mills. Spent some time = down there on coke battery A5 (directly across from McDonalds in Baden). = Shame we weren't allowed to bring cameras into the mill. Yep, I remember = the SW's in their green and yellow livery. Started out as the 'snatch = man' working with the A&S moving/attaching coke cars under the chutes. = But South Aliquippa lacks the flavor of Braddock and Homestead. Those = WERE mill towns.=20 But one point I will definately have will be the interlock (split) = at Rochester. That will be the loop (allowing for hidden staging too) = permitting me to send trains to Youngstown or along the Ohio River. = Forget Conway, no one has the space for that! One big plus for that local is the secondary yard at Legionville = (Economy Yard) which served Wycoff, A.M. Byers, E.G.Smith, before = terminating in Ambridge. Darn, now you got me thinking! Shame on you! Thanks for the jog, Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF4C78.7A081600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Terry,
    Nice to see someone = remembers=20 those 'old' mills. Spent some time down there on coke battery A5 = (directly=20 across from McDonalds in Baden). Shame we weren't allowed to bring = cameras into=20 the mill. Yep, I remember the SW's in their green and yellow livery. = Started out=20 as the 'snatch man' working with the A&S moving/attaching coke cars = under=20 the chutes. But South Aliquippa lacks the flavor of Braddock and = Homestead.=20 Those WERE mill towns.
    But one point I will = definately=20 have will be the interlock (split) at Rochester. That will be the loop = (allowing=20 for hidden staging too) permitting me to send trains to Youngstown or = along the=20 Ohio River. Forget Conway, no one has the space for that!
    One big plus for = that local is=20 the secondary yard at Legionville (Economy Yard) which served Wycoff, = A.M.=20 Byers, E.G.Smith, before terminating in Ambridge. Darn, now you got me = thinking!=20 Shame on you!
 Thanks for the jog,
Walt P.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF4C78.7A081600-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:13:52 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Re: [MerchServ] Bowser News / Post-Christmas Sale From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4846453d62776a365f890a6404b207b2 Passing on some news that I sent to the Merchandise Announce list a few minutes ago... On 12/22/99 3:02 PM, Jerry Britton (jbritton@dsop.com) wrote: > In a "stunning" announcement, Bowser will no longer be offering 12-packs of > its freight cars after their current stock sells out. They will thereafter > only be offering 3-packs. That's important if you want different road > numbers on each of your cars. If you've been putting off a 12-pack purchase, > now's the time to GET YOUR ORDER IN!!! We will fill all 12-pack orders as > availability permits. (For Bowser, there is no separate number for a > 12-pack; order a quantity of 12 and it will be interpreted as a 12-pack.) I'm sure there are subscribers out there who are interested in this tidbit of info! --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 14:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] B&O wagon top cabin car/caboose plans X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 464e97e1c2d3e9019257c31d8bb70518 Hello list, This is for the listmember who was looking for B&O I5 (wagontop) cabin cars (strangely, B&O, CNJ and other railroads refer to these as cabooses....). According to the Model Train Magazine Index (linked through Accurail's web site), Mainline Modeller's February 1986 issue has a plan starting on page 28. RMC has an article about the I5b in the September 1974 issue starting on page 56. I'm an interlibrary loan fan; I'd order the articles through there. Mailine Modeller may have their back issue in stock. Doug PRRT&HS 4932 (reaffirming my PRR roots....) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Laird" Subject: [PRR] More on PRR Scenery Cars Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:24:53 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e6ad09ec931b424d477089ebada2fb69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF4CA1.75A8B6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The current issue of 'Transfer', Number 28, Oct-Dec 1999, pages 8-10, = show detail trackage at Harsimus Cove. An interesting note on the = trackage chart on page 10 is what appears to be a 6 track yard in front = of the Harborside Terminal Co. warehouse and warf clearly labeled = "P.R.R. Scenery Yard". Could the scenery transport business been so = good circa 1965 (date of the chart), that the PRR had a dedicated yard = for the cross Hudson River traffic? In addition to the Harsimus Cove track charts, a poor quality = photocopied black and white picture of the yard appears on page 7 with = the following stated in the caption, in part "...This yard handles = perishable freight for Pennsylvania Railroad Piers 27, 28, and = 29.......This yard serves Harborside Warehouse and export-import freight = interchanged with vessels at Pennsylvania Railroad Piers C, D, and F, = Jersey City." The picture is interesting in that it is an elevated view = of the yard showing complex trackage and a lot of rolling stock in the = yard. =20 For those not familiar with 'Transfer', it is the periodic publication = of the Rail Marine Information Group (RMIG). RMIG is an organization of = enthusiasts interested in vessels, other equipment, operations, and = history of the transportation of railroad equipment over water. Past = issues of 'Transfer' have included a great deal of material on the = equipment, history, and operations of the ports of New York, = Philadelphia, and Baltimore. Many of these articles, with photographs, = line drawings, and various charts have included detailed information on = the PRR. Anyone interested in finding out more about the RMIG should = contact John Teichmoeller, 12107 Mt. Albert Rd., Ellicott City, MD = 21042. Bill Laird Canyon Lake, Texas ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF4CA1.75A8B6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The current issue of 'Transfer', = Number 28,=20 Oct-Dec 1999, pages 8-10, show detail trackage at Harsimus Cove.  = An=20 interesting note on the trackage chart on page 10 is what appears to be = a 6=20 track yard in front of the Harborside Terminal Co. warehouse and warf = clearly=20 labeled "P.R.R. Scenery Yard".  Could the scenery = transport=20 business been so good circa 1965 (date of the chart), that the PRR had a = dedicated yard for the cross Hudson River traffic?
 
In addition to the Harsimus Cove = track charts, a=20 poor quality photocopied black and white picture of the yard appears on = page 7=20 with the following stated in the caption, in part "...This yard = handles=20 perishable freight for Pennsylvania Railroad Piers 27, 28, and = 29.......This=20 yard serves Harborside Warehouse and export-import freight interchanged = with=20 vessels at Pennsylvania Railroad Piers C, D, and F, Jersey = City."  The=20 picture is interesting in that it is an elevated view of the yard = showing=20 complex trackage and a lot of rolling stock in the yard.
 
For those not familiar with = 'Transfer', it is=20 the periodic publication of the Rail Marine Information Group = (RMIG).  RMIG=20 is an organization of enthusiasts interested in vessels, other = equipment,=20 operations, and history of the transportation of railroad equipment over = water.  Past issues of 'Transfer' have included a great deal of = material on=20 the equipment, history, and operations of the ports of New York, = Philadelphia,=20 and Baltimore.  Many of these articles, with photographs, line = drawings,=20 and various charts have included detailed information on the PRR.  = Anyone=20 interested in finding out more about the RMIG should contact John = Teichmoeller,=20 12107 Mt. Albert Rd., Ellicott City, MD 21042.
 
Bill Laird
Canyon Lake, Texas
 
------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BF4CA1.75A8B6E0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "W. Terry Stuart" Subject: Re: [PRR] Jake & Louie (old A&S) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:30:03 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8fb60bda0bbe8db50c1bade64a6b5b29 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4BE9.C7CB0EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're very welcome, Walt. Actually for a time my intended layout was = to be the Beaver County area so that I could have both CSX and Conrail. = Beginning at West Conway, it was to run just past CP Wood, possibly to = Highland Cut, with the Youngstown Line at least to Wampum. That would = have made even the old B&O (B&P) possible high on the hillside. The = FALLSTON FLAGSTOP (my railfan B&B) lies mid-way on that route, with CSX = in the backyard and Conrail... oops, NS, across the Beaver River. But my life-time love of the Pennsy west of Altoona won out. =20 South Fork to Cresson, with the South Fork Secondary... set in the = early 60's... and advancing along a time line into mid-Conrail. And = then an arbitrary halt. I want NOTHING to do with the NS on MY = railroad. Explore your alternatives, Walt. But I like the idea as you stated it. -----Original Message----- From: Walt Prusick To: tstuart@forcomm.net Cc: Pennsy Talk Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 12:57 PM Subject: [PRR] Jake & Louie (old A&S) =20 =20 Terry, Nice to see someone remembers those 'old' mills. Spent some time = down there on coke battery A5 (directly across from McDonalds in Baden). = Shame we weren't allowed to bring cameras into the mill. Yep, I remember = the SW's in their green and yellow livery. Started out as the 'snatch = man' working with the A&S moving/attaching coke cars under the chutes. = But South Aliquippa lacks the flavor of Braddock and Homestead. Those = WERE mill towns.=20 But one point I will definately have will be the interlock = (split) at Rochester. That will be the loop (allowing for hidden staging = too) permitting me to send trains to Youngstown or along the Ohio River. = Forget Conway, no one has the space for that! One big plus for that local is the secondary yard at Legionville = (Economy Yard) which served Wycoff, A.M. Byers, E.G.Smith, before = terminating in Ambridge. Darn, now you got me thinking! Shame on you! Thanks for the jog, Walt P. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4BE9.C7CB0EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're very welcome, Walt.  Actually for = a time my=20 intended layout was to be the Beaver County area so that I could have = both CSX=20 and Conrail.  Beginning at West Conway, it was to run just past CP = Wood,=20 possibly to Highland Cut, with the Youngstown Line at least to = Wampum. =20 That would have made even the old B&O (B&P) possible high on the = hillside.  The FALLSTON FLAGSTOP (my railfan B&B) lies mid-way = on that=20 route, with CSX in the backyard and Conrail...   oops, NS, = across the=20 Beaver River.
 
But my life-time love of the Pennsy west of Altoona won out.  =
 
South Fork to Cresson, with the South Fork Secondary...  set = in the=20 early 60's...  and advancing along a time line into = mid-Conrail.  And=20 then an arbitrary halt.  I want NOTHING to do with the NS on MY=20 railroad.
 
Explore your alternatives, Walt.  But I like the idea as you = stated=20 it.
 
 
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Walt Prusick <walpru@stargate.net>
To:= =20 tstuart@forcomm.net = <tstuart@forcomm.net>
Cc:= =20 Pennsy Talk <prr-talk@dsop.com>
Date:=20 Wednesday, December 22, 1999 12:57 PM
Subject: [PRR] = Jake=20 & Louie (old A&S)

Terry,
    Nice to see = someone=20 remembers those 'old' mills. Spent some time down there on coke = battery A5=20 (directly across from McDonalds in Baden). Shame we weren't allowed = to bring=20 cameras into the mill. Yep, I remember the SW's in their green and = yellow=20 livery. Started out as the 'snatch man' working with the A&S=20 moving/attaching coke cars under the chutes. But South Aliquippa = lacks the=20 flavor of Braddock and Homestead. Those WERE mill towns. =
    But one point I = will=20 definately have will be the interlock (split) at Rochester. That = will be the=20 loop (allowing for hidden staging too) permitting me to send trains = to=20 Youngstown or along the Ohio River. Forget Conway, no one has the = space for=20 that!
    One big plus for = that local=20 is the secondary yard at Legionville (Economy Yard) which served = Wycoff,=20 A.M. Byers, E.G.Smith, before terminating in Ambridge. Darn, now you = got me=20 thinking! Shame on you!
 Thanks for the = jog,
Walt = P.
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF4BE9.C7CB0EE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:36:23 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d78b15d90ac285bb5ffd621a47edbbca To Mike Morrow and Peter Reingold who recently inquired about the branch --- My information says that it was called the Elmira branch. The mainline ran from Newberry Jct. to Stanley NY. There it split into the Sodus Bay Secondary which ran up to Sodus Point NY, and the Canandaigua Lake Branch which ran to Canandiagua NY. Interestingly, a while back I was able to acquire copies of all the track charts from someone - probably from this list. The cover says PRR Central Region, Northern Division, Susquehanna District, Elmira Branch. I posted copies of all of them on http://www.idrive.com Go into my storage area "roybreon" as a visitor and select the Elmira Branch folder. In that are about fifteen tiff files of all the sections of the branch. They can be downloaded. You can contact me directly if you have a problem. Maybe others on this list, more knowledgeable than I, can comment on the "makeup" of the Branch. Roy Breon Pittsford, NY roybreon@netzero.net __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:43:33 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a656ae12108265dd7faa70fc3b8dd87d Hello Roy; Pardon the intrusion, but I read your info on the Elmira Branch posted to the list. Do you have any information relating to a time when this was known as the Elmira Division, probably dating back to turn of the century (the last one); probably in a period when noted PRR Photographer William Rau was recording the PRR geography? David Seidel Altoona, Pa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: PKMac1@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:53:02 EST Subject: [PRR] BN Tech. Site X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b9d7bb42c7fe7e468df9ac6c5f94389d Jerry & List. Looking for a BN or BNSF technical site to contact people for infomation. Want info on the BN 4000 series cabless units at Juniata Loco. Shops. Thanks in advance. Pat McKinney ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roy Breon" Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:56:27 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02cf68bcefc8ec53149d96d16ae1b8f7 Sorry. The photocopy of the track diagrams is dated but the date is hard to read. It says "Current as of January 1, 19??". Can't read the last two digits. Roy Breon Pittsford, NY roybreon@netzero.net -----Original Message----- From: DWSNRHS@aol.com To: roybreon@netzero.net ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch >Hello Roy; Pardon the intrusion, but I read your info on the Elmira Branch >posted to the list. Do you have any information relating to a time when this >was known as the Elmira Division, probably dating back to turn of the century >(the last one); probably in a period when noted PRR Photographer William Rau >was recording the PRR geography? > >David Seidel >Altoona, Pa. > __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:48:40 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: Re: [PRR] More on PRR Scenery Cars X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c01771d359cbf8c20b054fef5326e18f Perhaps the "Scenery Yard" is where the PRR stored its plaster, screening, lichen and ground foam ;-) Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== > Bill Laird wrote: > > The current issue of 'Transfer', Number 28, Oct-Dec 1999, pages 8-10, > show detail trackage at Harsimus Cove. An interesting note on the > trackage chart on page 10 is what appears to be a 6 track yard in > front of the Harborside Terminal Co. warehouse and warf clearly > labeled "P.R.R. Scenery Yard". Could the scenery transport business > been so good circa 1965 (date of the chart), that the PRR had a > dedicated yard for the cross Hudson River traffic? > > In addition to the Harsimus Cove track charts, a poor quality > photocopied black and white picture of the yard appears on page 7 with > the following stated in the caption, in part "...This yard handles > perishable freight for Pennsylvania Railroad Piers 27, 28, and > 29.......This yard serves Harborside Warehouse and export-import > freight interchanged with vessels at Pennsylvania Railroad Piers C, D, > and F, Jersey City." The picture is interesting in that it is an > elevated view of the yard showing complex trackage and a lot of > rolling stock in the yard. > > For those not familiar with 'Transfer', it is the periodic publication > of the Rail Marine Information Group (RMIG). RMIG is an organization > of enthusiasts interested in vessels, other equipment, operations, and > history of the transportation of railroad equipment over water. Past > issues of 'Transfer' have included a great deal of material on the > equipment, history, and operations of the ports of New York, > Philadelphia, and Baltimore. Many of these articles, with > photographs, line drawings, and various charts have included detailed > information on the PRR. Anyone interested in finding out more about > the RMIG should contact John Teichmoeller, 12107 Mt. Albert Rd., > Ellicott City, MD 21042. > > Bill Laird > Canyon Lake, Texas > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 08:54:25 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Check this out. I'm Serious!!!! X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: afa9f84c24c5d53bebc5f2ede99d99a6 On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Gary Mittner wrote: > List, > > I just recieved an email from someone who visited one of my > homepages. The message included a URL with some pretty neat pics. I > thought I would share these with the list. Boy would I like to see this > thing run!!!.....Gary > > Check it out: http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~www/shop/edst1.html This URL has been around for a while now...I'll have to check on the progress. I tried VERY hard to encourage the gentleman building this WOA (work of ART) to bring it to the PRRT&HS meeting...maybe in 2000? There would be nothing I would like to see more than a live steam T-1 except perhaps a 1' to 1' live steam T-1!!!! Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:03:54 -0600 (CST) From: Bruce F Smith Subject: Re: [PRR] Jordon Spreaders X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 01c28c99a9465300ac33dac461259c49 On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Jerry Britton wrote: > When did the PRR acquire its first Jordon Spreaders? Hi Jerry, I had some correspondence with an individual regading this several years ago...He was a bit cagy as he was writing the definitive history of the Jordan Spreader and didn't want to "provide research material for free" that would be in his book. Of course, no sign of the book yet...The info is on my work computer, and being an academic, I am home and won't be able to check it until the 3rd (not to worry though...I'm a macophile, as you know, an laugh in the face of Y2K). Until then, I'm off to Colorado (ah skiing, snow, NARROW GAUGE TRAINS< mountains...) Happy Rails Bruce ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:44:17 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] Westerfield GLa hopper car assembly X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7c14c875d6f4b1bda9a47d77a4c13469 Hello list, I'm assembling my first Westerfield hopper car, a PRR GLa (modernized for 1940s service, kit 5751). The kit moldings are fantastic, but I'm finding assembly challenging; I've built boxcars from Westerfield and Sunshine; the GLa has many more parts. I've managed to glue the hopper bottoms off center; I'll be travelling to the hobby shop after Christmas for some super glue debonder to get things squared away. Have any of you built this particular kit, and if so, do you have suggestions? I'm also building a Westerfield G22 gondola; assembly is much simpler and is proceeding rapidly, with no snags of any kind; I think it's the sheer complexity of a resin hopper car rather than anything to do with Westerfield's kits (which, by the way, come with fantastic prototype data sheets!!! All manufacturers should do something like this!!!). Thanks in advance! Doug _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DWSNRHS@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:07:00 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Elmira Branch-PRR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f998f4d275f1001681e00539d3ef760d Thanks for the information, Bill. The purpose of my inquiry is my role as a docent/volunteer at Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum. The museum is also a partner in the Altoona satellite branch of Southern Alleghenies Museum of Art (opposite the post office, downtown). The SAMA has a permanent collection of museum quality albumin photoghraphic prints of William Rau, official photographer of the Pennsylvania Railroad in the late 1800's, and access to the rest of the collection which is owned by the Penn Central holding company (proper name escapes me at the moment). The Elmira Division is featured. Also seeking info on the Susquehanna Division, for the purpose of exhibit info. This status of "Division" must precede 1900 I suspect. Dave Seidel Altoona ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Roger P. Hensley" Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 14:19:24 +0000 Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: c56bbeccae280caf832356ac2895821a It IS Pennsylvania. :-) Can anyone answer this question. I have no idea where he got my name, but I'll see if I can get him an answer. Roger ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: AB51@aol.com Subject: Revel RR To: 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu I came across the Revel RR --there were passenger cars etc sidetracked in Wilkes-Barre Pa --any info on this line??--Brian ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] Jordan Spreaders Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:00:51 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f038e620e21fcc7b8e518e3b06f3a779 Jordan made three varieties of their popular machine: Spreader Spreader-Ditcher Spreader-Ditcher-Plow The PRR December 31, 1926 list of work equipment shows 21 ditchers, as well as 37 grading and spreader cars. However, it is not possible to tell if any of these were the Jordan machines. I feel confident that some of them were. There are several of us now collaborating on putting out a book, through the PRRT&HS, on PRR MW equipment. We are targeting 2001 for release, how ambitious that is remains to be seen. Hopefully questions such as the one posed on the Jordan spreaders will be answered. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:09:45 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ?C&P question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4c6fd1f721dd236f9f7ba292e2733b55 <> This is a little too far east for me so I'm posting it for an answer. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SUVCWORR@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:29:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] ?C&P question X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd5cd46d4f3f2934fe873319c145d129 In a message dated 12/23/1999 15:20:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: > < << > << Is it a part of the CR Pittsburgh Division circa <<1998? What was it called at that time?>> > > This is a little too far east for me so I'm posting it for an answer. > > Tom V. > What is left of the line (not much) is part of the Carneigie cluster which was sold to the Pittsburgh Industrial Terminal railroad about 3 years ago. Conrail still operated Scully yard but the tracks west of Scully are PITR's. The line to Weirton now only goes slightly beyond the wye at Carneigie. The tracks west of a point about 700 yards east of Gregg Station have been removed. Some tracks remain in place in the Burgettstown area. I believe but not sure they are being reached from the Weirton secondary and are still CR (NS) tracks. The tracks to Cannonsburg and Washington, PA are still active. Rich Orr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: LINESWEST@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:03:45 EST Subject: [PRR] Clement partially gone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4184f3431561ed3bfe738ab524fd5851 Hi All, Another visible part of the Panhandle near Dayton has bit the dust. Was driving into Dayton last week on U.S. 35 and was noticing that the finishing touches had been made on the "Creekside Trial," the 13-mile rail-trail conversion that railbanks Xenia-Dayton Dayton, Xenia & Belpre RR that was the PRR Columbus Division southern or passenger division mainline. At Clement, on the eastern corporate limits of Dayton and less than 100 yards north of U.S. 35 between Woodman Drive and Smithville Road, a short girder span carried the Panhandle over the CH&D/B&O East Dayton Cutoff/Wellston Subdivision. This line provided a connection via trackage rights with one of the northern termini of the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern/Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati. This grade separated crossing is one of my ealiest railroad memories. It seems I first noticed it from a child's car seat in my parent's navy blue 1950 Ford Crown Vic before the US 35 freeway was built in 1959-1960. (I was a precocious tot.) The tiny span is gone as is the eastern embankment so the bike trail can make a sweeping turn north from the Panhandle right-of-way on the the B&0 cutoff for a run north to Dayton's River Corridor Bikeway along the Mad River and the (ex-Big 4/NYC/PC/CR)Norfolk Southern Springfield-Columbus mainline. The western abutment still stands as it seems to be part of a derail at the east end of what was once the Clement yard. The Panhandle main west of Clement and the CL&N south of this crossing are used as a spur serving Delhi ex-GM/Delco) auto parts plants in eastern Kettering, Ohio. It's not really important, but its just another sign that the might Pennsy is fading from real memory. Tom V. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:19:04 -0600 From: rboydrrs@inlink.com (Robert A. Boyd) Subject: [PRR] Re: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/24/99 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b344023e0e70dd066f27ed79e3247469 >Perhaps the "Scenery Yard" is where the PRR stored its plaster, >screening, lichen and ground foam ;-) > >Regards, > >Andy Miller Now, you know someone is going to have to build a model of that, complete with brick bunkers served from a dump car track like a coal yard. I presume the plaster would come in sacks just like the prototype - how many 1/4" long sacks of plaster would it take to do a typical module? Not sure what you would do about the screen wire- I guess cut it up into small squares and stack them up in the yard so they'd look like that rebar mesh used in street paving. As for the foam, that would likely have to go into silos. Ballast and earth cover (LifeLike dyed sawdust) could go in the bunkers. One could use the lychen to set up a Christmas tree lot next door---- Sounds like a winner! :-}> Happy holidays to all, Bob Robert A. Boyd ======== Those Classic Trains "Beginning A Century-long Tradition Of Fine Modelmaking" "The Limited" On Line - The Golden Age Of Railroad Passenger Service http://www.thoseclassictrains.com history - technology - modeling - sources Classified Ads - Bubba's Web Resources - and Psycho too! ======== ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 07:06:39 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0ed3670cc457e8bf30bbf0d1dfdd911e Roger, There used to be a couple of 1890's type cars attached to the station in Wilkes Barre, Pa. They were part of a restaurant and motel setup, called "The Station". There were boxcars and old commuter cars set up on the passenger tracks and used as a motel. I stayed there one night, about 10 years ago. Some where I have some pictures of the insides of a couple of the cars. One 1800's OBS car was setup as a parlor car, another 1800's passenger car was seating for dinner ( may have been a early dinner?), These were attached to the station. I would love to know the location of this equiptment.... Bill Knepper PRRT&HS # 1818 (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa . -----Original Message----- From: Roger P. Hensley To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 2:22 PM Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR > It IS Pennsylvania. :-) > Can anyone answer this question. I have no idea where > he got my name, but I'll see if I can get him an answer. > >Roger > > >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:34:09 -0500 (EST) >From: AB51@aol.com >Subject: Revel RR >To: 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu > >I came across the Revel RR --there were passenger cars etc sidetracked in >Wilkes-Barre Pa --any info on this line??--Brian > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 11:44:03 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5ad5f415f6192f118e5e822788df083f On another list I am on there is a fellow who reports on the status of the "The Station" quite regularly...supposedly the remaining cars (a number of them have been burned by vandals) are being removed from the site and are to be shipped to Las Vegas for some casino project.... his email address is mrushton@epix.net On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, boxcar46 wrote: >Roger, >There used to be a couple of 1890's type cars attached to the station in >Wilkes Barre, Pa. They were part of a restaurant and motel setup, called >"The Station". There were boxcars and old commuter cars set up on the >passenger tracks and used as a motel. I stayed there one night, about 10 >years ago. Some where I have some pictures of the insides of a couple of the >cars. One 1800's OBS car was setup as a parlor car, another 1800's passenger >car was seating for dinner ( may have been a early dinner?), These were >attached to the station. I would love to know the location of this >equiptment.... > > >Bill Knepper >PRRT&HS # 1818 > >(boxcar46@nfdc.net) >End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa >. >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger P. Hensley >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 2:22 PM >Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR > > >> It IS Pennsylvania. :-) >> Can anyone answer this question. I have no idea where >> he got my name, but I'll see if I can get him an answer. >> >>Roger >> >> >>------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >>Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:34:09 -0500 (EST) >>From: AB51@aol.com >>Subject: Revel RR >>To: 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu >> >>I came across the Revel RR --there were passenger cars etc sidetracked in >>Wilkes-Barre Pa --any info on this line??--Brian >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: DPoole17@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 11:58:32 EST Subject: [PRR] TEST MESSAGE X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8510b93d3605ed52e306038c84cd589e Just checking to see if I got the address correct in my address book!! Jus subscribed. I am an AMTRAK engineer and build ONE INCH scale live steam engines and rolling stock. PRR only!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:09:49 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] Re: [CR] TEST MESSAGE X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 416624488d09e19bfd2ab633670dc9e6 Hello there and welcome to the list.... On Fri, 24 Dec 1999 DPoole17@aol.com wrote: >Just checking to see if I got the address correct in my address book!! Jus >subscribed. I am an AMTRAK engineer and build ONE INCH scale live steam >engines and rolling stock. PRR only!! > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "Conrail-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Bill Bigler" Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:29:23 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fdc075884d07d2ef7e42ff4ef5a9dddb A year or so ago it was still all there, but long closed and boarded up. Might be your big chance to invest in a neat business (after understanding clearly why the first owners went bust)! Bill Bigler Big Flats NY Modeling PRR Renovo Div. WWII -----Original Message----- From: boxcar46 To: rhensley@anderson.cioe.com ; PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR >Roger, >There used to be a couple of 1890's type cars attached to the station in >Wilkes Barre, Pa. They were part of a restaurant and motel setup, called >"The Station". There were boxcars and old commuter cars set up on the >passenger tracks and used as a motel. I stayed there one night, about 10 >years ago. Some where I have some pictures of the insides of a couple of the >cars. One 1800's OBS car was setup as a parlor car, another 1800's passenger >car was seating for dinner ( may have been a early dinner?), These were >attached to the station. I would love to know the location of this >equiptment.... > > >Bill Knepper >PRRT&HS # 1818 > >(boxcar46@nfdc.net) >End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa >. >-----Original Message----- >From: Roger P. Hensley >To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com >Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 2:22 PM >Subject: [PRR] (Fwd) Revel RR > > >> It IS Pennsylvania. :-) >> Can anyone answer this question. I have no idea where >> he got my name, but I'll see if I can get him an answer. >> >>Roger >> >> >>------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >>Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:34:09 -0500 (EST) >>From: AB51@aol.com >>Subject: Revel RR >>To: 00rphensley@bsuvc.bsu.edu >> >>I came across the Revel RR --there were passenger cars etc sidetracked in >>Wilkes-Barre Pa --any info on this line??--Brian >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >>"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". >> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 09:39:10 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: Re: [PRR] Westerfield GLa hopper car assembly X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5c85acad47aebd7c83a58917c621b64c Bill and the list, My hopper casting on my GLa is one piece. My mistake was in misaligning it when I used CA (super glue) to glue it in place without double checking to make sure everything was snug and square. Westerfield's directions are dense, but complete. Reading the directions two or three times is essential with his kits, but once you understand all of the possibilities (the directions usually cover several variations of the same kit), things become very clear. I use a highlighting marker to mark the steps I need to follow; I get confused easily when modelling freight cars. The biggest challenge I face when building other companies' resin kits is the lack of pictures showing what the parts look like that they're describing in the instructions. My G22 gondola's body, being only six pieces, has been a piece of cake; I should have warmed up with this first. Doug --- boxcar46 wrote: > Doug, > Is the bottom of the hopper car a single casting? > If not, then it is one of > Al's older kits.....His newer GLa is a single > casting for the hoppers, and > is as easy as the G22 gon. They make supper cars, I > hate to run them...I > also build some of the Sunshine kits, and they don't > provide instructions > worth a darn. Al's instructions and pictures of the > assembly are the best. > > Bill Knepper > PRRT&HS # 1818 > > (boxcar46@nfdc.net) > End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Kisala > To: PRR talk > Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999 1:45 PM > Subject: [PRR] Westerfield GLa hopper car assembly > > > >Hello list, > > > >I'm assembling my first Westerfield hopper car, a > PRR > >GLa (modernized for 1940s service, kit 5751). > > > >The kit moldings are fantastic, but I'm finding > >assembly challenging; I've built boxcars from > >Westerfield and Sunshine; the GLa has many more > parts. > > > >I've managed to glue the hopper bottoms off center; > >I'll be travelling to the hobby shop after > Christmas > >for some super glue debonder to get things squared > >away. > > > >Have any of you built this particular kit, and if > so, > >do you have suggestions? > > > >I'm also building a Westerfield G22 gondola; > assembly > >is much simpler and is proceeding rapidly, with no > >snags of any kind; I think it's the sheer > complexity > >of a resin hopper car rather than anything to do > with > >Westerfield's kits (which, by the way, come with > >fantastic prototype data sheets!!! All > manufacturers > >should do something like this!!!). > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Doug > > > >_________________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Join our SPF database at > http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the > message "help" to > >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact > "listmaster@dsop.com". > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 14:57:03 EST Subject: [PRR] Elmira Branch history X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b9f0df29a3f8e7181251127ab422ea26 I put together a brief history of the Elmira Branch, in response to some of the recent questions. The first part of the EB to be started was from Williamsport to Elmira. The Williampsort and Elmira RR was chartered in 1832. By 1849, the W&E had gotten as far as Ralston. In that year it went bankrupt and was foreclosed. It has the dubious distinction of being the first RR to go bankrupt in Pennsylvania state history. The new owners completed the line to Elmira in 1854, but went bankrupt again and into foreclosure in 1858. The newest buyers renamed the road the Elmira and Williamsport RR. In 1863 the E&W was leased by the Northern Central Railway. Also in 1863, the Northern Central reached a joint trackage agreement with the Erie RR for the Chemung RR (chartered 1850) and the Elmira, Jefferson (now Watkins Glen) & Canandaigua RR. In 1872, the Northern Central purchased the Chemung RR and the EJ&C RR. and arranged trackage rights over Erie tracks between Elmira and Horseheads. In 1884, the Northern Central bought the Sodus Bay & Southern RR, and thereby reached Lake Ontario, and completed what later came to be known as the Elmira Branch. In 1886, the SB&S, Chemung, and EJ&C were consolidated as the Elmira & Lake Ontario RR, controlled by the Northern Central. In 1913 the Northern Central was incorporated into the PRR via a 99 year lease. In 1920, the PRR was first organized as divisions, and the Elmira Branch became the Elmira Division, with headquarters in Elmira. In 1930 the PRR bought the Newark & Marion Railway. In 1932, the Elmira Division was consolidated with the Williamsport Division, with HQ in Williamsport. In response to Dave Seidel's question, it seems that the EB was officially the Elmira Division only between 1920 and 1932. Since the literature indicates that using military-style organization on the railroad, arranging it into divisions, was a novel concept in 1920 when the PRR did it, it seems unlikely that the EB was called the Elmira Division before that time. Officially, at least, that title was only used 1920-1932. Possibly in the days of the Northern Central the segment of the NC from Williamsport to Sodus Bay was called the Elmira Division; but I think this is unlikely, based on everything I've seen up to now. It seems that the various acquired/leased railroads were referred to separately, by their old names, until at least 1920. For example, the ICC valuation records, field notes, and maps in the National Archives, completed between 1910-1925, are divided up by the old RR names. If you want to see the valuation maps and field notes for the section Williamsport to Elmira, you ask for the Elmira & Williamsport RR. References: "Centennial History of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company 1846-1946", Burgess and Kennedy, 1946. "Pennsylvania Railroad's Elmira Branch", Bill Caloroso, 1993. (very good source, excellent summary of history of EB) "Story of the Northern Central Railway", Robert L. Gunnarsson, 1991. "Williamsport & Elmira Railroad - A History 1831-1863", Thomas T. Taber III, 1986. Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:23:16 -0500 (EST) From: Will Subject: [PRR] Happy Holidays X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bf012bf1a2d23cda581628c37e3e70da Greetings to all and Happy Holidays however you wish to observe it... Will Semanchuk-Enser Technical Support & Co-Network Administrator alcoman@bluemoon.net net.bluemoon.net - Blue Moon Online System V.90, X2 & K56flex www.railfan.net - The Railfan Network http://www.bluemoon.net mud.bluemoon.net 4000 - MoonMud bbs.bluemoon.net irc.bluemoon.net-ZUHnet Buffalo, NY IRC Server Home Page:http://alcoman.railfan.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Fred Brandes" Subject: [PRR] Nickel Silver Rail - HO 100 & 70 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:24:23 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f89cae32d313f08ae6ccb39e99814362 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4E2B.56A0C400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Folks, My interest in PRR concerns the telegraphic code books issued by PRR = over the years. I've found several different editions on ebay. Since joining the maillist I've noticed many references to rail and = thought this ebay auction might be of interest to some of you... Auction title: NICKEL-SILVER RAIL--HO SCALE--CODES 100 & 70 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D224842990 Regards and Happy Holidays, Fred Brandes ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4E2B.56A0C400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Folks,
 
My interest in PRR concerns the telegraphic code = books issued=20 by PRR over the years. I've found several different editions on=20 ebay.
 
Since joining the maillist I've noticed many = references to=20 rail and thought this ebay auction might be of interest to some of=20 you...
 
Auction title: NICKEL-SILVER=20 RAIL--HO SCALE--CODES 100 & 70
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D22484= 2990
 
Regards and Happy Holidays,
 
Fred Brandes
------=_NextPart_000_0039_01BF4E2B.56A0C400-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 08:25:16 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5a50f309e8d43d31cd28a479cd80f6f1 Hello list, Amongst other goodies (the spectacular 2000 Ghosts Calendar of classic warbirds among them), the book Pennsy Streamliners and a PRR calendar arrived from Santa. My calendar has a great shot of a T1 and K4s doubleheader waiting for a train in 1948. What did you get for your PRR Christmas? Doug _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 11:31:39 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] Merry Christmas X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 019aa634238370073e2400f2a16b3f78 To one and all: A very Merry and Joyous Christmas. (Here's hoping Santa left lots of railfan goodies :-) Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 13:12:47 -0500 From: David ott Subject: [PRR] Re: What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a61316c305c8552c9eafcfe9be39fef6 Triumph II Hoping your stocking was full of D.G.L.E. or Tuscan goodies. Merry Christmas Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Greg Stone" Subject: [PRR] Re: What did you get for Christmas? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 11:32:08 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7406ec57dfbb1dd2fe2a210778f11006 Merry Christmas to All ! May your season be filled with the smell of butuminous smoked steam, and ,if you must, diesel fumes, the clacking of siderods and wheels on rails, and scenes filled with frieght car and tuscan red with white and gold leaf, and most of all D.L.G.E.. Santa gave me a 1930s mechanical lead pencil from the PRR with a picture of the S1 on the side. I also recieved another Renovo yards photo. God Bless!! Greg Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:49:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 54a689a585c52f528e60175445285042 On 12/25/99 11:25 AM, Doug Kisala at (dougkisala@yahoo.com) wrote: > What did you get for your PRR Christmas? > One of those "extra hands" gizmos...the three hand version. Also, those things you place on a yard stick for drawing accurate radius curves. One slip on is a pin, the other a pencil. And also a gift certificate at Lowes (for lumber). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 14:53:21 -0500 Subject: [PRR] 1st Annual "So Santa Didn't Bring It To You" Sale From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ccbb4d3bbc5bf997ceb282159040f105 Merchandise Service is pleased to present its 1st Annual "So Santa Didn't Bring It To You" Sale! Super savings -- at least 20% off -- on these lines: * Atlas track. * Bowser locomotives and freight cars. * Red Caboose freight cars. * Eastern Car Works passenger cars and core kits. * Bethlehem Car Works passenger cars. * Westerfield freight cars. * Union Station Products passenger car sides. Out of stock items are also eligible for the discount, but are subject to availability! Act Now -- sales prices expire at 8 a.m. on Monday, December 27th! Bonus: Free U.S.P.S. Priority Mail shipping!!! ONLINE STORE We are in the midst of our annual holiday gift-giving sale. See our web site for substantial savings! Our eStore is at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com We accept VISA and MasterCard. Remember, your purchases support the lists and web sites of DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM. Thank you for your support! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 15:08:55 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 98a64073ade382c564df148f460f83e6 Both Volumes of "From Coal To Glory" the history of the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company. "Atlantic Coast Line Passenger Service, The Post War Years" "Through the Heart of the South, The Seaboard Air Line Railroad Story" All of the above have a strong relationship to the Pennsylvania Railroad. Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "P Grace" Subject: [PRR] Re: What did you get for Christmas Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 20:13:28 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 805adbc873269d52abafeaea6a39f3ed This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF4F14.81D31DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable An Accruail Doggie Dinner reefer and a selection of Swedish Railbusses = along with a steam inspection car. I'm waiting for the January Sales at Mac's in Glasgow to buy a few bits = if he has them... Happy Christmas Patrick Grace ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF4F14.81D31DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An Accruail Doggie Dinner reefer and a = selection=20 of  Swedish Railbusses along with a steam inspection = car.
 
I'm waiting for the January Sales at = Mac's in=20 Glasgow to buy a few bits if he has them...
 
Happy Christmas
 
Patrick Grace
 
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF4F14.81D31DA0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 16:26:33 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Kisala Subject: [PRR] K brake assembly on Westerfield G22a/b gondola X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: eeb6502a55be04cf553ae81037ab336b Hello list, I tried a different method of assembling the Tichy K brake set on this gondola, and it worked. On my previous resin kits, I'd assembled each component to the car body, and I had many difficulties with fit and alignment. Ordinarily, assembling components to the car (like the brake gear on a Red Caboose X29) is stronger and less prone to difficulties. This time, I assembled the brake beams and wire to the brake cylinder, let the assembly dry, and glued the completed assembly in place. This worked out very well; viewed from the side, the brake beams and cylider are aligned nicely and don't droop at all. One minor aside; I know that the K brake gear was outlawed for interchange service by my 1948-52 timeframe. I can live with this particular discrepancy. Doug _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "boxcar46" Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:14:43 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b6b4b80771315cf05985af64ede4327b I was surprised to find a Atheran 2-8-2 in PRR, and a Cedco calendar (PRR) from the better half..... Then I had bought for me 2 more passenger cars for the G scale PRR train. This year was a good year.....and no bills ! Merry Christmas to you all. Bill Knepper PRRT&HS # 1818 (boxcar46@nfdc.net) End of the NCR tracks, New Freedom, Pa. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Kisala To: PRR talk Date: Saturday, December 25, 1999 11:33 AM Subject: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? >Hello list, > >Amongst other goodies (the spectacular 2000 Ghosts >Calendar of classic warbirds among them), the book >Pennsy Streamliners and a PRR calendar arrived from >Santa. My calendar has a great shot of a T1 and K4s >doubleheader waiting for a train in 1948. > >What did you get for your PRR Christmas? > >Doug > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 17:02:27 +1100 From: "Mick Molloy" Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: cd311dbbb2a75c64403fe5d48c69dd25 --=====_94618814741=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The majority stockholders of our family (Wife & Kids) got together and completed my Morning Sun PRR collection. I have several weeks of reading and photographs to get through! Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2000 to All Mick Molloy Melbourne, Australia --=====_94618814741=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
The majority stockholders of our family (Wife & Kids) got together
and completed my Morning Sun PRR collection.
 
I have several weeks of reading and photographs to get through!
 
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2000 to All
 
Mick Molloy
Melbourne,
Australia
--=====_94618814741=_-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "John H. Wright" Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 08:16:20 -0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d9563c6acd882e4f4020b423d1e7d486 Season's greetings to everyone, All Santa brings me these days is socks, slippers, aftershave and more socks. But if you stretch the point you could say a Sunset A5 and a Lambert NYC B10. They were ordered in October and arrived Christmas Eve! They're slated to be re-wheeled and given new gearboxes and motors for 'Federal St.' the P87 layout I'm now building. Regards, John H. Wright Visit the Newcastle & District MRS website at its new URL: http://home.freeuk.net/nmrabr/ndmrs.htm -----Original Message----- From: Doug Kisala To: PRR talk Date: 25 December 1999 16:28 Subject: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? >Hello list, > >Amongst other goodies (the spectacular 2000 Ghosts >Calendar of classic warbirds among them), the book >Pennsy Streamliners and a PRR calendar arrived from >Santa. My calendar has a great shot of a T1 and K4s >doubleheader waiting for a train in 1948. > >What did you get for your PRR Christmas? > >Doug > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 07:27:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Clement partially gone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5cad64ff71b2d0a0ccbb6f825b879604 In a message dated 12/23/99 8:13:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, LINESWEST@aol.com writes: << Hi All, Another visible part of the Panhandle near Dayton has bit the dust. Was driving into Dayton last week on U.S. 35 and was noticing that the finishing touches had been made on the "Creekside Trial," the 13-mile rail-trail conversion that railbanks Xenia-Dayton Dayton, Xenia & Belpre RR that was the PRR Columbus Division southern or passenger division mainline. At Clement, on the eastern corporate limits of Dayton and less than 100 yards north of U.S. 35 between Woodman Drive and Smithville Road, a short girder span carried the Panhandle over the CH&D/B&O East Dayton Cutoff/Wellston Subdivision. This line provided a connection via trackage rights with one of the northern termini of the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern/Dayton, Lebanon & Cincinnati. This grade separated crossing is one of my ealiest railroad memories. It seems I first noticed it from a child's car seat in my parent's navy blue 1950 Ford Crown Vic before the US 35 freeway was built in 1959-1960. (I was a precocious tot.) The tiny span is gone as is the eastern embankment so the bike trail can make a sweeping turn north >> Does that mean the small freestone culvert in that embankment is also gone? I'll be showing slides of this area in my clinic in Dayton January 16, although I never got pix of the B&O high cube full of unfilled plastic bottles that was reportedly scalped at that underpass. BTW, there are historical timetables and maps that place "Highland" and "Highland Junction" in at least 4 different places 1. at this overpass 2. just east of this overpass on the DX&B 3. just south of this overpass by perhaps a mile. This is the location north of Patterson Road where the B&O went east and the Hempstead Industrial went south; the same place was called Lebanon Junction back in the days when both those lines were 3' gauge and the line from Cincinnati and Lebanon used the B&O predecessor to access downtown Dayton. 4. A completely different Highland well south of all of this on the line toward Lebanon. Confused? Remember that the 3' gauge operator, the Cincinnati, Lebanon & Northern, was nicknamed "The Highland Line", being the only route into Cincinnati that was floodproof. Rick Tipton ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:25:48 -0500 Subject: [PRR] New life for the Zanesville branch From: Fred G Rea X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 675ad9fdc69ed6945249a39ed1b189b7 Today's Columbus Dispatch has an article about the opening of a new coal mine in Glouster Ohio. While that is great news for people in that depressed area, it is also great news for PRR fans. The second half of the article explains that the opening of the mine is made possible by the Ohio Central Railroad. The coal will be shipped by rail (about 40 cars/day) over the NS(NYC-TOC) to New Lexington, then over the OC to Conesville. The full text can be read at: http://www.dispatch.com/news/newsfea99/dec99/railxnws.html In summary, about $8 million is being spent to upgrade the Ohio Central's line, called the Ohio Southern) from New Lexington to Zanesville. This line has been in very bad condition. It is part of the old PRR Zanesville branch covered extensively in the Keystone several years ago. My assumption is that the OC's old W&LE line will be used from Zanesville to Trinway and the Panhandle on to Conesville. I think the OC no longer uses the Trinway-Coshocton part of the W&LE. Check the Dispatch Web site, it is a well written RR story. I think I heard rumors of this on the List some time ago. Then I think it was thought to be a NS operation. Three cheers for the folks at the OC! It is not Stampede Pass but still a definite step in the Trails to Rails movement! Fred Rea ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 11:04:41 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Re: [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 76c6906662dc2c93390d9ff0d264e5d1 Andy made an interesting "obiter dictum" on Mike Brock's foto. To wit: "The Erie carried the lion's share of Santa Fe perishable traffic moving east of Chicago." It made me wonder (as PRR fan) what eastern RR's carried the various traffic of which western RR's; and in which era. Was there anyone west of the Mississippi with whom the PRR had a dominant relationship, and whose cars would therefore be more prominent than those of competitors? Which western roads should I, as a PRR fan, concentrate on? Am I making a mistake having so many ATSF reefers (about 25%) in my reefer fleet? Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Andy Sperandeo wrote: > > Mike Brock commented on seeing the following on a photo of the ATSF in > Southern California: > > "3 C&O box cars, an Erie box car and a C&O > gon with some debris inside. Next to the Erie box car is an NYC flat car > loaded with processed lumber." > > Not really unusual at all, Mike. A big part of the Santa Fe's traffic was > connecting the industrialized, populous Northeast with booming Southern > California. The Erie and the NYC were both direct connections, as was the > C&O through its Pere Marquette subsidiary. The Erie carried the lion's > share of Santa Fe perishable traffic moving east of Chicago. > > By the way, what book was that? I'd like to take a look at the photo. > > Happy new year, > > Andy > > Andy Sperandeo > Editor > MODEL RAILROADER Magazine > P.O. Box 1612 > Waukesha, WI 53187 > > Phone: 262-796-8776, ext. 461 > Fax: 262-796-1142 > e-mail: asperandeo@mrmag.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:31:16 -0500 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] Coal Mines X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d26e740e8654b9b4931ae944c4cbd2fa Is there a website or book where I can locate photos of coal mines or tipples (not anthracite) preferably in Pennsylvania? Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: ThreeButchers@cs.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:40:23 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Locomotive #5540 - Help Needed... X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e4c9a008ffc49f37fa779483ffa31fee My life-long Membership Number in the PRRT&HS is 5540. I am almost certain this number was assigned to a PRR T1 4-4-4-4 class steam locomotive. As a matter of pride and (accurate) preservation, I would like to model this specific locomotive by the upcoming PRRT&HS 2000 convention. Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful in locating photographs or assignments of this specific locomotive. Any help regarding pictorial or service history of this locomotive would greatly be appreciated. Regards, B Butcher - Midlothian, VA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:40:22 EST Subject: [PRR] Gundy tower X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d75121f1d23a6667adb6373059fee404 are there any pictures posted anywhere of Gundy tower? Thanks ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:39:16 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR Electrics X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a77754b1eb93f39a6d2bb07c7e637f84 Received a copy of Zak & Withers book about PRR motors and have some questions: 1. Zak say's all motors were black up until the GGI. Is this true? 2. Why do some P5A's have sloping equalization links and other are horizontal? 3. I trace the shape and lines of the G back through the P5A to the L5 engines. Granted that they were boxy affairs but laid the groundwork for the streamlined P5A's and the G's. Lowey changed the skin from rivets to welded, changed the marker lights and engine number boxes, put an arc over the end door over the headlight and added a curve from the body into the narrowed hood portion over the air filters instead of a square joint. For that he gets all the credit for the "artistry" of the G and the PRR gets nothing. He changed maybe 3% of the overall design and gets all the credit. What am I missing here? Are we victims of Loweys PR? They are nearly always refered to as Lowey styled engines which gives him far more credit then he deserves IMHO at this point. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:53:02 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal Mines X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d7e841278dc83b4f5374e165600602a7 I am not sure about that, but I have a PRR publication (cir 1950) naming all of the mines they served in PA and there are some pics. If there is something specific you need I could scan and E-mail Harold Modeling the Middle Division in 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:57:00 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: [PRR] Kittanning Point X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ac2ff5d8491a4036f2313b7c960be356 Hi Gang: I received Triumph I and Triumph II for Christmas.....nice books. Here's my question: They make mention that Kittanning Point is actually the point just east of the Curve's apex, and not the point at the apex itself. I used to think this the case until, on one of my visits to The Curve, I noticed that their information listed the apex as being Kittanning Point. Which is correct? And, if the book is correct, what is the proper name of the point that is situated at the apex? Thanks Larry Reynolds ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "velure" Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal Mines Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 14:53:22 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: dd2b9610e09406ce876bcd80046100b9 > Is there a website or book where I can locate photos of coal mines or > tipples (not anthracite) preferably in Pennsylvania? > > Mike http://theoldminer.virtualave.net/county.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:57:02 EST Subject: [PRR] [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1420b13bd05fb949651637798468cd0c In a message dated 12/27/99 10:20:19 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Which western roads should I, as a PRR fan, concentrate on? Am I making a mistake having so many ATSF reefers (about 25%) in my reefer fleet? >> I'll have to consult my library at home to see if I have more scientific info. However, I have always collected Fruit Growers Express as the most dominant reefer in a Pennsy train, a conclusion I reached because Pennsy was an owner. Second is PFE, by sheer volume of cars nationwide. There always seemed to be a small number of C&NW reefers or stockcars in Pennsy trains as well. A good observation source was the picture of the Pittsburgh produce terminal which has been shown several times and in one of the model magazines they identified most of the reefers in the scene by road name and type. Now if I could only find the issue. Sante Fe was certainly present. Another factor needs to be considered is which gateway. There is probably a different mix out of Chicago than St. Louis. Not a scientific answer, but maybe the book on the Great Yellow Fleet has some clues. The ORER info on transfer points doesn't give any obvious clues as to numbers of cars. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:10:36 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] PRR Electrics X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 02debd2f5423383478425febd8d1664b In a message dated 12/27/99 2:04:39 PM Central Standard Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << Lowey changed the skin from rivets to welded, changed the marker lights and engine number boxes, put an arc over the end door over the headlight and added a curve from the body into the narrowed hood portion over the air filters instead of a square joint. For that he gets all the credit for the "artistry" of the G and the PRR gets nothing. He changed maybe 3% of the overall design and gets all the credit. What am I missing here? Are we victims of Loweys PR? They are nearly always refered to as Lowey styled engines which gives him far more credit then he deserves IMHO at this point. >> That is analagous to saying that Shakespeare gets credit for writing all those plays, but the words were always in the dictionary. Nobody said Loewy was the engineer who designed the locomotive electrically and mechanically. However, sometimes the synergistic effect of small changes you mention, plus the striping scheme, makes all the difference in the world between an aesthetic, timeless masterpiece and a chunk of metal. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:39:18 -0500 From: Andy Miller Subject: [PRR] Re: [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e0ce4ad5654ac39781e20284b057add0 Tim, Thanx for your reply. It has useful info. However, I was not just concerned with perishables, but with all interchange. Did RR's develop special arrangements with connecting partners which would bias the off road cars seen on a RR? Did the PRR have a preference for the MKT over the T&P, the NP over the GN, the ATSF over the UP, The CB&Q over the RI etc? Of course there were the interlocking ownership issues which flavored a lot of this. At one time or another the PRR controlled the N&W, the Wabash, FGE, and many others. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@mitre.org =================================================== Tim O'Connor wrote: > > Andy, > > It depends to some extent on the time of year. Potatoes were harvested in different > parts of the country at different times. BAR reefers were loaded in Maine throughout > the winter, and were leased to PFE during the summer fruit rush. Potatoes came out > of the Red River valley during the summer and then those WFEX reefers spent their > winters moving citrus out of Florida. PRR would have handled large numbers of > meat reefers, including NWX and URTX leased cars. Beverages were carried in > reefers too. ART loaded lots of peaches in Colorado in the summer, and produce > from south Texas in the spring and summer. > > I guess what I'm saying is that it's meaningless to say "25% of the reefers on PRR > should be SFRD". On the other hand, I have no doubt that at certain times of year > on certain parts of the PRR, SFRD reefers represented 25% of the total! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andy Miller > To: The Freightcars List > Cc: ; PRR > Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC] > > > Andy made an interesting "obiter dictum" on Mike Brock's foto. To wit: > > > > "The Erie carried the lion's share of Santa Fe perishable traffic > > moving east of Chicago." > > > > It made me wonder (as PRR fan) what eastern RR's carried the various > > traffic of which western RR's; and in which era. Was there anyone > > west of the Mississippi with whom the PRR had a dominant relationship, > > and whose cars would therefore be more prominent than those of > > competitors? > > > > Which western roads should I, as a PRR fan, concentrate on? Am I making > > a mistake having so many ATSF reefers (about 25%) in my reefer fleet? -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 16:48:23 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ed472e909386f045f216631dda7671e0 In a message dated 12/27/99 10:20:19 AM Central Standard Time, asmiller@mitre.org writes: << Which western roads should I, as a PRR fan, concentrate on? Am I making a mistake having so many ATSF reefers (about 25%) in my reefer fleet? ----------- Well, yes, you are. In recalling that produce terminal article Bob Zoeller mentioned ( I also have it laying around here somewhere), there's an explanation of Pennsy reefer ownership, however indirect. Seems Pennsy had part ownership/control of all those WFE and BREX reefers running west of Chicago, and they were assigned on a seasonal basis. Their existance gauranteed Pennsy a reefer supply, as their peak needs didn't conflict much with the western roads. It's an aspect of the industry not much covered, but a guy has to wonder about some of the "politics" of reefer traffic (and other traffic as well). With Pennsy's stake in FGE, and all that citrus hauled by friendly southern connections like ACL and SAL, how did PRR feel about receiving California oranges from, say, John Santa Fe? The traffic off GN-Q was generally different (never heard of Georgia apples, for example) and fit in nicely. But there were a lot of Santa Fe reefers, 14,309 in 1950, and certainly Pennsy got some, especially on Lines West, I would think. Good question. Regards, Barry Peltier St. Paul, MN (home of GN, NP, Soo, CGW, M&StL and assorted other reefer haulers) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:31:18 -0500 From: Jerry Shickler Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3f1e0e68167e973b08272b8a6daa2835 Doug Kisala wrote: > > Hello list, > > ... > What did you get for your PRR Christmas? > > Doug > Alexander's "On the Main Line" ("Make sure you tell them it's out of print", says the wife proudly); Bowser N5 & N5C (w/ antenna mounts), & H21; & a 20 oz. Flock & Turf. -- Jerry Shickler e-mail: geshick@velocity.net Visit the PRR P&E, E&P, & Chautauqua branch web-site at http://www.velocity.net/~geshick/prr/prrmain.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 17:16:16 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: Re: [PRR] Coal Mines X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 6b403bbdb23855e9bc1a9e4ac2acd645 > Is there a website or book where I can locate photos of coal mines or > tipples (not anthracite) preferably in Pennsylvania? Strictly speaking aren't they "breakers" when it's anthracite, anyhow? -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BPX29@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 18:44:11 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Re: [FC] Eastern cars in California [OFC]// Interchange X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 87b19b3d2234fa0e802bb76800a23e31 Andy, After seeing your reply to a T. O'Connor I went back and reread your posting. This is a whole differentcan of worms. Big as the Pennsy was in it's home state, in Chicago and st. Louis it was only one of many players, obviously. In Peoria, where the M&St.L-NYC (P&E) were major connectors, the PRR hardly figured at all by the 1950's. The 'invisible wall' separating western from eastern railroads led to many political situations and railroads were careful to play off connecting lines as much as possible, making frequent 'suggestions' if not acted on could lead to major diversions of traffic. Pennsy at one time threatened to offer NO interchange to railroads that failed to provide clearence for the 10'-6" inside height box cars PRR was building. Perhaps a good object of study would be the ownership of bypass lines like the TP&W and Kankakee Belt for some major clues. Trains mag has run articles on the Chicago Terminal roads; I suspect a listing of railroads sharing a joint yard would help. In addition, many railroads ran transfers in the major rail centers, and the new Morning Sun book about Chicago is a big help there. Funny, I'm fairly conversant in the passenger aspect but much less so on the freight operations. Seems like a fascinating area of study. regards, Barry Peltier ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:46:56 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR T1 #5540 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1a59d5ac38cc84cefa0ae3d7de96ff38 In answer to B. Butcher's inquiry: "Keystone Steam and Electric" by William D. Edson says that 5540 was indeed a T1. Outshopped by Baldwin in June 1946 (C/N 72779), it was dropped from the roster in December of 1953. I have nothing that gives assignments; so I can't help there. I also don't have any digitized images of T1's. I'll look through some of my books and see if there are any of 5540, and then let you know where they are. Jim Anderson PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling the Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 21:48:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [PRR] The Broadway X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: bc5962a9ec01c2b212c7b293711f9c0e List, This question pertains to the Broadway Limited. There is actually several questions wrapped up into this thread. Hopefully I can recieve some answers that will help me out with a project that I am doing for someone. First part of the question is for the modelers on the list. I have been contacted by someone who collects Brass Models of Streamlined Steam Locomotives. He is collecting not just Pennsy Streamliners but any road he get manage to get a hold of. Recently I finished painting K4s #3768. This was the 1936 Streamlined version that Alco Models released in the 1970's. He picked his engine up today and now he wants me to keep a look out for the tail car that went with the Broadway Train set of the 1930's. Did Oriental Limited (Brass Importer) release the 1938 Broadway Limited some time ago? If so I need the tail car rom this set. Does anyone have the stock number and or/ box description to what car this represents? Anyone have an extra car for sale? There is no real big hurry for this car yet. For now I am busy with a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha Class F-7 Hudson and Tail Car. But any info will be helpful for the future. Now my other question(s). Now that I am on the look out for the tailcar of the 1938 Broadway Limited, it seems I come up with another question I would like to know the answer to. The Streamlined K4 #3768 came to be in 1936. The first fully PRR Streamlined Trainset came to be in 1938. Why didn't the Pennsy build this set in the same time period as the conversion of the #3768 K4s to streamlining 2 years earlier? When the work on the Streamlined K4 was completed in 1936 was it assigned to a heavywieght train and or put into regular service? I do recall reading that the 3768 did go on system wide tours to show off the shrouding. Did it do this for 2 years until the Fleet of Modernism cars were ready in 1938? Plenty of questions I know!!! But if someone can shed some light on more info and or more correct info than what I have, would be greatly appreciated......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] The Broadway Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 22:40:02 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 44e1d661d3d6b962571b0946e869a40c I'll take a stab at the 1936 Loco/1938 Pass. Car question. As a side note, I always wondered about the Broadway and 20th Century Limited debuting with the streamlined cars on the same day(6/15/38). How could two rivals competing for business coordinate such a thing? I read Kalmbach's Pennsy Streamliners book a few months ago, and it shed some light on the situation. The 30's was the decade of streamline development. mostly articulated units. The NYC took a different direction with the Mercury. It was a test of non-articulated streamliners, and it's success convinced the concept would work for the Century. The Pennsy got wind of the NYC streamlining the Century, and would have to streamline the Broadway to keep up. The politics of Pullman delivering cars to the railroads (whose orders would get filled first, design issues, etc), led to the joint debut. Pullman was building so many cars in this time period it could not deliver the cars any sooner, so the trains could not debut sooner than '38. I don't know anything about the loco, but if they had it in '36, why not put it to use while waiting for the cars. Andy -----Original Message----- List, ... Why didn't the Pennsy build this set in the same time period as the conversion of the #3768 K4s to streamlining 2 years earlier? ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:08:08 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] The Broadway X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f15065bc9beecc106c37898681755603 In a message dated 12/27/1999 10:46:31 PM Central Standard Time, ajc5150@net66.com writes: << The politics of Pullman delivering cars to the railroads (whose orders would get filled first, design issues, etc), led to the joint debut. Pullman was building so many cars in this time period it could not deliver the cars any sooner, so the trains could not debut sooner than '38. >> I wish I had instant recall. I just read about this in the last 10 days, but I will once again have to search for the source later. What I read was that the economies of scale manufacturing-wise were such that, near the end of the depression, NYC and PRR buried the competitive hatchet to introduce the trains at the same time and get the savings by grouping like car orders with Pullman. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 00:12:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: [PRR] The Broadway X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e02f1b4a80482311f961f6dda99438db Andy, Excellent reply and reasoning. I suppose there maybe more info in that new Streamliners book. Unfortunately I do not have it. The reason I ask about the service of #3768 between the years of 1936 and 1938 is there dosn't seem to be photo evidence of the loco in regular scheduled service. Most photos show her on public display. For the Pennsy to keep her from regular service during those 2 years dosn't seem out of the question. It was during the depression and having 1 K4s loco pulled from service wouldn't really hurt the overall picture. I suppose it was much more important in the long run to show the public the new luxury in train travel the future would hold. Thats my opinion only, No proof what so ever.....Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 23:08:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] Gundy tower From: michael Allen X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 537fef214683891f5dac6db6669c1254 Perhaps you mean "Grundy" at Bristol, PA MEA ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: RE: [PRR] PRR Locomotive #5540 - Help Needed... Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:01:49 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 5c78b97e23dc0d29246acebd99bdfdf6 I just picked up Wayner's Keystone Steam & Electric, by William D. Edson . It is an excellent source for locomotive numbers. It lists all steam and electric locos built since 1906 sorted by number, and then by class. It shows build dates, builder, construction number, and dates dropped from roster, sold to another RR, or sold for scrap. I found a few occurences where the same number was re-used four times. T1 5540 was built by Baldwin in 6/46. It's construction number was 72779, and was dropped from the roster in 12/53. Hopefully that will give a time frame to search for service history. Only seven years, such a shame. I do not have any photos of 5540, but I do have a photo of 5541 and one of 5542. If it would help with your model I will e-mail them to you(140k for both). The 5541 photo is a good shot of the fireman's side, but the 5542 is a little dark. I'm not sure where I downloaded them from, so I can't properly credit the source. Andy -----Original Message----- My life-long Membership Number in the PRRT&HS is 5540. I am almost certain this number was assigned to a PRR T1 4-4-4-4 class steam locomotive. As a matter of pride and (accurate) preservation, I would like to model this specific locomotive by the upcoming PRRT&HS 2000 convention. Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful in locating photographs or assignments of this specific locomotive. Any help regarding pictorial or service history of this locomotive would greatly be appreciated. Regards, B Butcher - Midlothian, VA. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Andy Cich" Subject: Re: [PRR] What did you get for Christmas? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:08:55 -0600 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ef2232542a6263fb1413f77ed295e021 My stocking was full of videos. I got several, and only watched one so far, a color video filmed in 1938. An item of interest was a freshly repainted H-21 with clamshell doors. It had freight car color trucks, and compared to the other cars in the train, it was an obvious fresh repaint. I was surprised to see a clamshell car that late. Andy ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 06:20:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [PRR] The Broadway From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 573585722c8d730126418331e802e269 On 12/28/99 12:12 AM, Gary Mittner at (mittner@webtv.net) wrote: > Excellent reply and reasoning. I suppose there maybe more info in > that new Streamliners book. Unfortunately I do not have it. It is an excellent book, and I have it in stock if you are interested. Price is $44.96 plus shipping. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: SNY114@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:56:46 EST Subject: [PRR] PRR T1 #5540 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a6b2fa1f51bed59969923d503d305187 Hi. I checked most of the same books, plus the two books from D. Carleton Railbooks, "Pennsy Steam: A to T" and "Pennsy Steam: A Second Look". There is one picture of 5540 in "Pennsy Steam: A to T", a shot of the engineer's side, pretty good one considering the 5540 is moving and at some speed. It's printed in the book at a size of about 7" x 7.5", so you can see a fair amount of detail. It's pulling the "St. Louisian", near Lewistown PA. That seems to indicate that it was assigned to the Middle Division, at least for a while. Jim A. sny114@aol.com PRRT&HS 3995 Modeling Elmira Branch circa 1925 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 09:41:27 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: Eastern Cars in California X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d0418576eb686136693804951021acc0 Regarding the ATSF "Preference" for an ERIE connection in Chicago, that is probably true, although most Western, and conversely Eastern RR's wouldn't admit it. There is a good, similar reference in the current issue of TRAINS regarding the transcontinental passenger train The ERIE and later EL was one of the only Eastern RR that ran a DIRECT train "off the road" into the ATSF Corwith yard in Chicago, most RR's connect in Chicago via transfers or in the case of TOFC via highway. It ran up until Conrail times, and often had passenger power (E-8's) By the end right before Conrail it was TOFC only. Seem to remember the trains were EL (ERIE) 98,99 (?), these even handled UPS traffic, which was about as HOT as you could get, save for the US Mail. As I recall my days as an Asst. Supt. for Santa Fe, most of the reefers were SRFD (Santa Fe) with a sprinkling of others, mostly PFE. It seems that PRR, in Chicago at least, liked the CB&Q. PRR handled several run thru trains to SP via CBQ/UP, at the end these included TOFC (TT's) with pooled power from SP, UP and the "Q". Pretty progressive for the late 60's !!!! Even more important traffic like US MAIL was "rubber interchanged" over the highway from the NYC/PC mail terminal at 14th & Lumber Sts. This traffic was handled with Flexi-Vans up until Conrail time. Most other TOFC came from the regular PRR terminal at 47th St or the NYC at 63rd St (also Englewood). After PC all terminals remained in operation, eventually the "Mail Hole" at Lumber St. was closed, the other two (47th and 63Rd) remain open to this day, as far as I know. Likely will even with NS, since their TOFC terminal would be way too small/remote to handle the ex-PRR TT's. John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 12:09:53 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Clement partially gone X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2267608d86dc35d7924cffd566f638d3 In a message dated 12/26/99 3:41:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, LeeRainey writes: << Well, I lived almost within sight of Lebanon Junction for many years and never heard it called anything else by the railroad old-timers in the Dayton area. Hmmm. Lee Rainey >> Lee, No argument there. We're talking about name creep from 1880 to 1920. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:28:09 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Update at CIRIN From: EJ Caylor X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1d6919bc081c78185432703914c60ff9 Pages added today: Peoria & Eastern, April 1968 Gadsden Secondary Track, May 1979 E.J. Caylor Central Indiana Railroad Information Network http://members.tripod.com/Caylorman/rail.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: MSand17545@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:52:36 EST Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh(Penn station) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 795bd9840f179b213e0c77d91c42af1c I was wondering does amtrak still own and operate the penn station in Pittsburgh? Or did they replace it? thanks for the help! Do you know of any web sites that have a picture of it? if so email me the url. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 22:33:32 -0500 From: vck@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh(Penn station) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 4000eadf307bc26d453fdbc9b52e80ab --On Die, 28. Dez 1999 21:52 +0000 MSand17545@aol.com wrote: > I was wondering does amtrak still own and operate the penn station in > Pittsburgh? Or did they replace it? thanks for the help! > Do you know of any web sites that have a picture of it? if so email me the > url. Although AMTRAK still operates its passenger operations from a nicely done street-level lobby in the original station, the main building is owned by a private concern which converted it to luxury apartments (called, likely enough, "The Pennsylvanian") several years ago. Unfortunately, the entire building, except for the AMTRAK area, is off limits to the public, doors locked, security guard, etc. You can, however, still walk under the wonderful portico on your way from the MLK, JR. Busway stop (former Panhandle tracks) down to Grant Street. Although I haven't seen a recent picture of the beautifully cleaned present-day Penn Station, there is a ca. 1910 view at the Library of Congresses American Memory web site, or you can go to my own website, Vagel Keller's Industrial Heritage Homepage, http://www.usaor.net/users/vagelk and scroll down to "A Pittsburgh Retrospective" which has a copy of that image. 'best, Vagel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 02:39:41 -0500 (EST) From: Derrick J Brashear Subject: [PRR] USGS DRG (1:24000 quad) coverage of PRR territory X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7a1f18398c8ba75ee722dd06fa535518 Hi, For some time I've been collecting up resources as far as available USGS 1:24000 quadrangle maps in digital form (customarily "DRG" files) covering ex-PRR territory. At this point most of the territory is covered by maps available via ftp or http; In fact at this point only the northwestern portion of Indiana, and most of the state of Michigan are not covered as far as ex-PRR territory. (of that I have local copies of all but the state of Illinois and the relevant portion of Missouri, where local is defined as a large hard drive downstairs) These are typically newer maps than would necessarily show all abandoned trackage, but they are useful just the same. You can find maps and pointers (for maps available elsewhere, typically state-run sites) at the DRG Exchange: http://rc1s2p9.dashmail.net/~mgreger/GIS/ I'd encourage anyone from Indiana or Michigan who might be near a government document depository library which might have the USGS map cds to see if they lend and if you have the facilities copy the maps and upload or mail a CD to Michael Greger; The data is freely redistributable so doing so (with original USGS data of course) is perfectly legal. If you don't have the ability to copy the data but know it would be available I may be able to go somewhere (in driving distance of Pittsburgh) with a laptop and copy the data, and mail it out on CDs myself. In the future I hope to set up a free web service which will render maps of ex-PRR territory with overlays on the fly, hopefully allowing links to pictures online using "imagemaps". If I can figure out a reasonable way to do so I'd also like to offer an "annotation" feature where people knowledgeable about an area can contribute relevant information for later users to view, like spotters guides to abandoned trackage. However, even though I own the hardware it's not really possible now because no one offers high speed data service here at anything remotely resembling reasonable prices (though if I wanted to blow $500/mo or so I could probably use the dark fiber in my basement). As this is an area of interest for me I'll be happy to try to answer any questions. -D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "walter mcwilliams" Subject: [PRR] prr salamanca branch Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:38:09 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 826b9e66dafa6af90aa5756cac036c4d Happy holidays to all Im looking for track charts and time tables for the Salamanca branch, Oil City and Orleans yard. Any help would be appreciated Walt ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:22:06 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: [PRR] "Keystone" emblem X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ecfe88b7e1ca6b6cbe3def8f9c27ed82 Hello lists: This is probably not a good week to be starting a new thread--by the way: Happy New Year to all--however, I could use some info PDQ. We're all acquainted with the traditional "P" with two "R's" hanging from it within a keystone emblem. My interest is in what I assume to be an earlier, if not the very first version of this "keystone" logo which you can see on the main page of our PRRT&HS website. Does anyone know whether this is the original, or roughly from when this "old" version dates? (The Lines West version--the words "Pennsylvania Lines," often with "of Pittsburgh" included, on a very modern-like keystone shield--was in use in the early 1890s.) What say you all? Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Mark Bej Subject: Re: [PRR] "Keystone" emblem Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 10:33:35 -0500 (EST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 46ebea47d39521356cb975c6869aef07 Richard Wallis scribit: > My interest is in what I assume to be > an earlier, if not the very first version of this "keystone" logo which > you can see on the main page of our PRRT&HS website. Does anyone know > whether this is the original, or roughly from when this "old" version > dates? This logo was first used (in the 1990s, that is!) by PRRT&HS for the Sesquicentennial stuff a few years back, and in some of the accompanying materials, as I recall, there was an explanation of the history of this logo. I would check with Phil Ritter and/or other Philly chapter members on it. -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:05:07 -0500 From: Jeff Knorek Subject: [PRR] Pittsburgh Maps X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e3e1db8ded6b5980fb0d503dbb17767d Howdy Gang- On the way to looking for something else, I came across a great site for early Pittsburgh maps. Go to: http://digital.library.pitt.edu/maps/index.html Enjoy- Jeff Knorek jknorek@msen.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 15:27:19 -0500 From: Terry Brentzel Subject: [PRR] Kittanning Point location? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d4f48f298afa1bf4e31859f8de5fb1c9 Several days ago, someone wrote inquiring about the exact location of Kittanning Point at Horseshoe Curve based on information contained in "Triumph I". I accidentally deleted the message, therefore, my apologies for not identifying the writer by name. I have not confirmed the writers comment that "Triumph I" puts the location of Kittanning Point SE of the actual apex of the Curve, but I remember essentially the same from "Triumph I". In the 1987 edition of "Pennsy Power" by Alvin Staufer (Bert Pennypacker is credited with text writing in this publication), reference is made to the northern calk as Kittanning Point. Quoting from page eleven, "From the Northern calk (Kittanning Point), tracks rise 122 feet as they traverse the entire curve and reach the extreme southern calk". This seems to imply that Kittanning Point is located at or very near the apex of the Curve immediately behind the present day park / visitor's area. Conversely, Don Ball Jr.'s 1986 "The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940's - 1950's" refers to the area several hundred feet SE (easterly timetable-wise) as Kittanning Point. This, of course, is where variously a tower, signal bridge, interlocking, coaling and water facilities and even a passenger station were located in the latter part of the 19th century and the earlier part of this century. Mr. Ball writes on page 152 of his book, "The big engine is steady, into a 2 degree 45 second curve to the right and then around the wall of Kittanning Point. The railroad can be seen high up on the mountain to the left. Horseshoe's great 9 degree 30 second curve comes into view. In a minute, they are at the apex of Horseshoe." Additionally, photos on pages 147 & 148 with a train under the aforementioned signal bridge refer to the train location as Kittanning Point. The author of "Triumph I" has come under criticism for inaccuracies in his publication and I am not familiar with reputations of either Staufer, Pennypacker or Ball as historians. But, it seems that based on these three publications, we have 2 to 1 situation stating Kittanning Point to be just SE of Horseshoe and NOT at the apex of the Curve. As this was 15 min. armchair research with available books at home and by no means exhaustive, any other knowledgeable input form other sources could shed more light. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:03:17 -0600 From: Larry Reynolds Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Point location? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: e78aca4a133a009e6fc3fd9cf0ec589e Hi Terry: I'm the guy that wrote the question concerning the location of Kittanning Point. Thank you for your interest and answer. I don't know too much about errors in Triumph I, but I believe the Pennsy Power books had their share also. That doesn't mean there bad books, as I've always, and to this day, enjoyed them. I would imagine, that when you take on such a large task there's going to be some room for error. If they were fictional...who cares, but being history books, we do care. Anyway, I do appreciate your getting back to me. Maybe someone out there knows the name for the point at the apex. Maybe it doesn't even have a name. Regards, Larry Terry Brentzel wrote: > Several days ago, someone wrote inquiring about the exact location of > Kittanning Point at Horseshoe Curve based on information contained in > "Triumph I". I accidentally deleted the message, therefore, my apologies > for not identifying the writer by name. I have not confirmed the writers > comment that "Triumph I" puts the location of Kittanning Point SE of > the actual apex of the Curve, but I remember essentially the same from > "Triumph I". > > In the 1987 edition of "Pennsy Power" by Alvin Staufer (Bert Pennypacker > is credited with text writing in this publication), reference is made to > the northern calk as Kittanning Point. Quoting from page eleven, "From > the Northern calk (Kittanning Point), tracks rise 122 feet as they > traverse the entire curve and reach the extreme southern calk". This > seems to imply that Kittanning Point is located at or very near the apex > of the Curve immediately behind the present day park / visitor's area. > > Conversely, Don Ball Jr.'s 1986 "The Pennsylvania Railroad 1940's - > 1950's" refers to the area several hundred feet SE (easterly > timetable-wise) as Kittanning Point. This, of course, is where variously > a tower, signal bridge, interlocking, coaling and water facilities and > even a passenger station were located in the latter part of the 19th > century and the earlier part of this century. Mr. Ball writes on page > 152 of his book, "The big engine is steady, into a 2 degree 45 second > curve to the right and then around the wall of Kittanning Point. The > railroad can be seen high up on the mountain to the left. Horseshoe's > great 9 degree 30 second curve comes into view. In a minute, they are > at the apex of Horseshoe." Additionally, photos on pages 147 & 148 with > a train under the aforementioned signal bridge refer to the train > location as Kittanning Point. > > The author of "Triumph I" has come under criticism for inaccuracies in > his publication and I am not familiar with reputations of either > Staufer, Pennypacker or Ball as historians. But, it seems that based on > these three publications, we have 2 to 1 situation stating Kittanning > Point to be just SE of Horseshoe and NOT at the apex of the Curve. > > As this was 15 min. armchair research with available books at home and > by no means exhaustive, any other knowledgeable input form other sources > could shed more light. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to > "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:05:07 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Point location? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 059931c6cfe8d71485b36d22bd9e1204 Maybe it isn't as exact as we would hope but a general area. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:23:47 -0500 (EST) From: Patrick James Rieger Subject: Re: [PRR] Pittsburgh(Penn station) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 8b6cb4f4304c4a2f8b518e08fec97cc1 On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 vck@andrew.cmu.edu wrote: > Although AMTRAK still operates its passenger operations from a nicely done > street-level lobby in the original station, the main building is owned by a > private concern which converted it to luxury apartments (called, likely > enough, "The Pennsylvanian") several years ago. Unfortunately, the entire A friend's mom lived there for 6 months, and they are essentially very expensive efficiencies (~$700.00/month). Patrick ============================================================================ "...if anyone has bolted together a mechanism with just fifty percent of the steam locomotive's solid spiritual satisfaction, he hasn't filed for a patent yet." -David P. Morgan Leave it to the computer people to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick James Rieger, http://www.dementia.org/~patrick Volunteer, Railway Exposition Company, Covington, Kentucky ============================================================================ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 17:59:17 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Kittanning Point location? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b8d2cb73402753cc71493d1c342d8684 In a message dated 12/29/99 4:12:21 PM Central Standard Time, NDBPRR@aol.com writes: << Maybe it isn't as exact as we would hope but a general area. >> Could be. USGS doesn't list Kittanning Point as one of its 2,000,000 features in its online database. Burgoon Run and Kittanning Run, yes, but not the point. Bob (midwest flatlander in over his head) Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "David Luciano" Subject: [PRR] PRR Track Centers Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:11:34 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0a919072dad57ea16fcf4f0ce879579a Happy Holidays Everyone, Does any one know what the distance is between track to track on the North East Corridor? Is it the same for the Harrisburg line also ? Did the PRR follow a standard for track centers no doubt ? I guess I should know this but I am still learning the PRR. Thanks Dave Luciano Strasburg Model Railroad ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:29:21 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Delaware cabeese X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 00dbc20aa83a2e63288f5af912bb1f31 Hi, Some Delaware caboose questions: Felton - a PRR N-8 cabin car is reported at the Paskey Farm, Main St. Anyone know the number? - a CSS&SB bay window caboose is reported on Main St., for sale. Is the South Shore caboose still in Felton? Any number? The for sale notice listed 302-698-1904 for info. Harrington - At one time there was PC/CR 18517 used as a Yard Shed along Fairgrounds St. Is this still here or scrapped? Lewes - Is PRR #?/Delaware Coast Line #1000 still at the Maryland & Delaware RR? Roxana - Anyone know the address or numbers of the 2 Conrail cabooses reportedly owned by a former Conrail employee? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:36:57 -0500 From: Terry Brentzel Subject: [PRR] Re: Kittanning Point location? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: d128ffd6c772fd36a4cfa6672c7ad824 Peter, Concise and very easily understood. Thanks. I hope your new position is going well. Terry Brentzel ********************************************************************* > Let's see if I can relate this in a way easily understood. The mountain > behind the Curve is Kittanning Point. It is from this mountain that the 450 > Irish track workers chipped away the rock to form the berm that supports the > Curve. While not at the apex, it is the peak most often associated with > Horseshoe Curve. True, the station and interlocking known as Kittanning > Point were located just east of Kittanning Run, but that does not refer to > the peak East of the Curve. On the West end of the Curve, the mountain is > referred to on maps as simply "Allegheny Mountain." > > I hope this is helpful. > > > Peter Barton > former Director, Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum/ > Horseshoe Curve NHL > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:39:03 -0700 From: Roger Kirkpatrick Subject: [PRR] Wyoming, DE X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 98f3cc8a957fe4ad5a2684d3a1ecfc4a Hi, One more Delaware caboose question: A PRR N-8 cabin car was moved from Barclay, MD, to Wyoming, DE, a few years ago. Does anyone have the number or address for this car? Thanks, Roger -- S. Roger Kirkpatrick, 113 West 17th Street, Leadville, CO 80461 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Diesel Colors-1952 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:39:34 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 38e394284944f03b0ee25ecf18e19dea This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF5299.04193CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, I followed the earlier conversation regarding AP20 (E7) being delivered = in five-stripe 'gold' and brunswick green with Pennsy Power II giving = the delivery dates from 1945-49. Prior to this I worked under the = assumption that if the unit is assigned to freight, brunswick green with = 'dulux gold' striping, passangers received tuscan red with 'dulux gold'. = As I intend to model circa 1952, what is the 'correct' colors for other = passanger units such as AP20 (PA/Alco), BP20 (DR6-4-20/Baldwin) or = FP20/FP20a (Fairbanks-Morse)? At what point did the Pennsy change over = from brunswick green to tuscan?=20 Further, as three A-B-A sets were delivered as FP20a in 1947 (intended = for freight), were they brunswick green and the single set FP20 = (intended for passanger) painted tuscan red?=20 And to think I was out of the woods when I figured out the five vs one = stripe conflict. . Thanks in advance. Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF5299.04193CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
I followed the earlier conversation = regarding AP20=20 (E7) being delivered in five-stripe 'gold' and brunswick green with = Pennsy=20 Power II giving the delivery dates from 1945-49. Prior to this I = worked=20 under the assumption that if the unit is assigned to freight, brunswick = green=20 with 'dulux gold' striping, passangers received tuscan red with 'dulux = gold'. As=20 I intend to model circa 1952, what is the 'correct' colors for other = passanger=20 units such as AP20 (PA/Alco), BP20 (DR6-4-20/Baldwin) or FP20/FP20a=20 (Fairbanks-Morse)? At what point did the Pennsy change over from = brunswick green=20 to tuscan?
 
Further, as three A-B-A sets were = delivered as=20 FP20a in 1947 (intended for freight), were they brunswick green and the = single=20 set FP20 (intended for passanger) painted tuscan red?
 
And to think I was out of the woods = when I figured=20 out the five vs one stripe conflict. <sigh>. Thanks in=20 advance.
 
Walt Prusick
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF5299.04193CE0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Alan Buchan" Subject: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/30/99 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:25:28 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: ecedb0471f7726be8c19ec156fa6c226 Subject: "Keystone" emblem From: "Richard Wallis" Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:22:06 -0600 Dan Cupper's "The Pennsylvania Railroad - Its Place in History 1846-1996" credits it to a May 26, 1901 Form 51 public timetable. I'm sure there is more to the story than this. However, it gives us a period of time. Happy 2000. Al ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:38:40 -0600 From: Richard Wallis Subject: Re: [PRR] RE: PRR-Talk Digest - 12/30/99 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: a25713d7fd37db175299b9deda6424c4 Alan Buchan wrote: > Dan Cupper's "The Pennsylvania Railroad - Its Place in History 1846-1996" > credits it to a May 26, 1901 Form 51 public timetable. Al: I've always wondered whether or not the use of a keystone shield originated with Lines West. I know PALW used their Kesystone emblem in the 1890s. Do you suppose? Richard Wallis ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:01:24 EST Subject: [PRR] P5A's X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 1e86ad0b3b8d17683d97c45facd534aa Anybody know why the top P5A equalization links slope at about a 30 degree angle on some units and is parallel to the rail on other units? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:22:51 -0400 Subject: [PRR] Catenary From: "Richards" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b773bc72b327e67f693759ead5b9f0c5 Hello all. I've been trying to track down information on Pennsy catenary bridges. I have the two Keystone articles, but I'm looking for precise drawings so that I can model H-beam catenary bridges as carefully as possible in brass. One of the Keystone articles says that the H-beams were 14" square, but photos in various books seem to show variation in width of poles. Height seemed to vary too. Were there standard heights and widths? Were they used in consistent configurations? Are there any good sources of information on catenary? I've recently switched from HO to O scale, in part so I can model catenary more accurately. I'm particularly interested in the K-bridges, but I'd be grateful for any help with dimensions and other data. Does anyone know of a source for original Pennsy catenary drawings? Thanks for your help. Best, Thomas Richards Modeling the Pennsy under Wire, New York Division, 1956 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:13:43 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Chat Room Proposal From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 998f4157aa169b0ba6a073ce5418db0c Hello, all! Another year is about upon us and it seems time to expand the services offered by DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM. There have been a number of requests over the past year for Chat Room capability, where users can "login" and discuss matters interactively in real time. To "do it right", I want to use commercially available, high quality software. I have selected a product in use by many ISP's and corporations, such as eTrade. I have had the requisite hardware on hand for some time. Now it is down to the software. The cost is $600. Desktop Solutions/Merchandise Service is hereby offering to pay up to half ($300) of this cost if subscribers of our many lists (PRR-Talk, Conrail-Talk, Reading-Talk, and Cyber-Talk) are willing to donate the balance. I am hereby soliciting your donations for this project. Checks should be made payable to "Desktop Solutions" and mailed to same at PMB 191; 185 Newberry Commons; Etters PA 17319. Mark the memo field for "Chat Software". I am setting a deadline of January 31 to raise these funds. If the donations do not reach the $300 mark, all checks will be returned. Updates will be provided as checks are received. If implemented, the "plan" would be to have several chat rooms available all the time, for public access (e.g. PRR, Reading, Conrail). There would also be at least one private chat room (Cyber Division PRRT&HS). We would also be able to pre-schedule chats which will feature specific subject matter. The software also allows for "auditoriums" where everyone can see messages but only selected "panelists" may post. Chat activity may be automatically logged for latter reference. Here's to hoping 2000 is a very chatty year! Thank you in advance for your support. --------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@pennsyrr.com Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in HO Scale. "Keystone Crossings" - Home of "PRR-Talk" http://kc.pennsyrr.com "Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: mittner@webtv.net (Gary Mittner) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:12:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-8-8-2 or What did you get for Christmas? X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 646630ec6a0eeda1bc2a7876b0c0301c List, This is my reply to the What did you get for Christmas question. A little late but well worth it. I just got a visit from the UPS truck. My Chrismas gift to myself was just delivered. The brand spanking new LifeLike Heritage 2-8-8-2. The Dealer Special with the display case. No I am not a dealer. I have one of these locos on reserve with my local hobby shop. Several weeks ago a dealer listed one of these on eBay. His reserve was not met and the bid was only $277.00 for a $375.00+ loo. After the auction ended I recieved an email from another dealer saying he has one and he checked in on ebay to see what they were selling for. He seen I was a bidder on the one on ebay so he offered his dealer issue to me for, get this, $275.00! He said he wanted to move it fast. After a few minutes of wondering if he is going pull the wool over my eyes I emailed him back and told him I would accept his offer. Thank goodness I did. The loco just showed up like I said earlier. I believe all the words used to describe this loco has been said before. This is the first I personally seen one and I have to agree 100%. WOW!!!!!!! I placed it on a short section of my layout and test ran it and believe me, it runs as smooth as my Samhongsa Built Brass locos. I also believe the slow speed ranges this loco performs are a little better than the best brass locos on the market, at least the locos in my roster anyway. This 2-8-8-2 came lettered for the N&W as number 2011. I will have to wait a while to see if my other reserved 2-8-8-2 comes in from my Hobby Shop. These are suppose to be avaiable sometime in January. IF I do happen to purchase that one, I will then decide on which one is going to be converted into the Pennsy HH1 #374. If LifeLike continues to release locos of this caliber, us steam modelers are in for a real treat. There is a rumor however, (Is it true?) that the production runs of this loco are going to be built in China. My dealer issued loco was built by Roco in Austria. Are they going to be of the same high quality? You would hope so. Time will tell. The bottom line is, if you like bigger steam power and can afford this, I recommended searching for one.......Gary Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Dennis @ D & S Hobbies" Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-8-8-2 or What did you get for Christmas? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:41:17 -0500 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: fc61042fce25a565fab91b71c500263a We can still confirm ALL of the first release 2-8-8-2 locos. $375 each. Dennis mailto:dennis@onerrave.com D & S HOBBIES http://www.onerrave.com 34 Main Street South Bound Brook, NJ 08880 -----Original Message----- From: Gary Mittner To: PRR-Talk@dsop.com Date: December 30, 1999 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [PRR] 2-8-8-2 or What did you get for Christmas? >List, > > This is my reply to the What did you get for Christmas question. A >little late but well worth it. I just got a visit from the UPS truck. My >Chrismas gift to myself was just delivered. The brand spanking new >LifeLike Heritage 2-8-8-2. The Dealer Special with the display case. No >I am not a dealer. I have one of these locos on reserve with my local >hobby shop. Several weeks ago a dealer listed one of these on eBay. His >reserve was not met and the bid was only $277.00 for a $375.00+ loo. >After the auction ended I recieved an email from another dealer saying >he has one and he checked in on ebay to see what they were selling for. >He seen I was a bidder on the one on ebay so he offered his dealer issue >to me for, get this, $275.00! He said he wanted to move it fast. After >a few minutes of wondering if he is going pull the wool over my eyes I >emailed him back and told him I would accept his offer. Thank goodness I >did. The loco just showed up like I said earlier. I believe all the >words used to describe this loco has been said before. This is the first >I personally seen one and I have to agree 100%. WOW!!!!!!! I placed it >on a short section of my layout and test ran it and believe me, it runs >as smooth as my Samhongsa Built Brass locos. I also believe the slow >speed ranges this loco performs are a little better than the best brass >locos on the market, at least the locos in my roster anyway. This >2-8-8-2 came lettered for the N&W as number 2011. I will have to wait a >while to see if my other reserved 2-8-8-2 comes in from my Hobby Shop. >These are suppose to be avaiable sometime in January. IF I do happen to >purchase that one, I will then decide on which one is going to be >converted into the Pennsy HH1 #374. > If LifeLike continues to release locos of this caliber, us steam >modelers are in for a real treat. >There is a rumor however, (Is it true?) that the production runs of this >loco are going to be built in China. My dealer issued loco was built by >Roco in Austria. Are they going to be of the same high quality? You >would hope so. Time will tell. The bottom line is, if you like bigger >steam power and can afford this, I recommended searching for >one.......Gary > > > > >Come visit my PRR Pages.... Photos, Models, Historical Items, Art Work! >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/THEHOMEOFGARY and >http://community.webtv.net/mittner/PENNSYLVANIA > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to >"listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Hal6963@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:39:12 EST Subject: [PRR] Middle Division Station Photos X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2ba8dbdf8be8ff6eb0e429cd8eb0d7de In a message dated 12/30/99 3:50:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, MIKADO1361 writes: << Regarding your Middle Division modeling, do you happen to have any photos of stations along the Division? I am particularly interested in photos of Tyrone and Huntingdon. > I have a number of photos of the Depot at Huntingdon starting in the 1800s through 1998. The same depot has been in use there for over 100 years and was restored earlier in this decade. This depot was also used by the Huntingdon and Broad Top Mountain Railroad and Coal Company. In the earliest photos the PRR tracks are on the east side of the station and the H&BTM on the west side along with the canal. The H&BTM Station is also still there but Norfolk Southern is talking about tearing it down. I also have photos of Stations at Marysville, Duncannon, Mifflin, Lewistown, Mt Union, Tyrone, Altoona, and Hollidaysburg. Some are post cards, some from books, and some I took myself. I will scan these and make them available to those that are interested. Harold R. McGee PRRT&HS 5224 Modeling the Middle Division Circa 1916 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 20:13:46 -0500 From: Mike Morrow Subject: [PRR] DGLE X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 696be9ba624cb5f3b3bcef2d363ee3b7 I know this is a novice question but I gotta start somewhere. I researched all of my old MR's from 1974-1989 and can't find the answer. Is there a good match for DGLE in Floquil and or Polly S paints right out of the bottle? If not how about a good mix? Thanks Mike ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: NDBPRR@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 23:13:27 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] DGLE X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 3b7f203b5c539490b4e30f71c6d89baa Floquil and most manufacturers refer to DGLE as Brunswick Green. No one that I have ever known can explain the origins of this terminology. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: steveh@dotstar.net (Stephen Hoxie) Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Colors-1952 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 22:14:11 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 95c87593516cd4eaaa28d028278ffa43 Hi Walt: You have happened onto another "non-standard" for the "Standard of the World." This may help on all but the FP20/FP20a/FF20; for these there was some discussion a few months ago, suggest you check the archives. EP20 (E7)--all delivered in DGLE with 5 bronze gold stripes. Later repaint put them in Tuscan with 5 dulux gold stripes. EP22 (E8)--early deliveries were in DGLE with 5 bronze gold stripes. Later deliveries in Tuscan with 5 bronze (pretty sure, but could be corrected, might have been dulux) gold stripes. Later repaint put all (?) in Tuscan with 5 dulux gold stripes. AP20 (PA1)--all delivered in DGLE with 5 bronze gold stripes. At least some, maybe all, were repainted to Tuscan with 5 dulux gold stripes. A few were painted DGLE with single dulux gold stripe for freight service; I do not know if these saw any service in Tuscan first or went to freight service. BP20 (Passenger Sharks)--all delivered in DGLE with unique 5 stripe bronze gold scheme. Later repaint put them in Tuscan with 5 dulux gold stripes. For your chosen year of 1952, when lots of things were in transition, I think you could use any/all of the schemes mentioned. Isn't this fun? Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: Bobspf@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:36:54 EST Subject: Re: [PRR] Diesel Colors-1952 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: f957d88353ae9bf9e5621b6abe00a553 In a message dated 12/30/1999 10:25:01 PM Central Standard Time, steveh@dotstar.net writes: << For your chosen year of 1952, when lots of things were in transition, I think you could use any/all of the schemes mentioned. >> Yeah, you picked the year of the changeover, so you do have a lot of choices. To save you looking at the archives, the FP20/FF20 only had one scheme in their lives: DGLE with single freight stripe, in freight or passenger service, from delivery to scrapping. Bob Zoeller ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: RickTipton@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:27:23 EST Subject: [PRR] Eastbound Refrigerator traffic on PRR Lines West X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 59a39105ee7213f48d03beee7276fc2d In a message dated 12/28/99 10:48:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, johnit@interaccess.com writes: << As I recall my days as an Asst. Supt. for Santa Fe, most of the reefers were SRFD (Santa Fe) with a sprinkling of others, mostly PFE. >> Might that be SFRD, originally for Santa Fe Refrigerator Department? Most of the Santa Fe ice reefer pics I notice are SFRD, or SFRC (sorry, can't help you there). Anybody here on the Pennsy list have info supporting the following yarn?: Supposedly, in the old days, the Fort Wayne ran ice reefers out of Chicago, and the Panhandle independently ran ice reefers out of both Chicago and St. Louis. Notice the TP&W connection via Logansport isn't mentioned, but it will fit right into this tale, which continues: Again, supposedly, at some point in time the business outgrew the two little ice plants in Fort Wayne and (maybe) Bradford. Trains were moving a bit faster by that time, so it was decided to build a volume icing plant in Columbus, that could service an entire reefer train in one gulp. This plant was put up a little east of the St. Clair Avenue Carshops, on the south edge of the yards, and built of brick (or maybe concrete/steel with brick curtainwall). Now all eastbound ice traffic was routed through Columbus and then eastward across the Panhandle Division to Pittsburgh. Feed routes included: 1. All Chicago traffic, including that taken away from the Fort Wayne. 2. All TP&W traffic, Effner-Logansport-Bradford-Columbus. 3. All St. Louis traffic. Most probably went St. Louis-Richmond-Bradford-Columbus, but with enough power or with helpers, could run via Dayton and Xenia. 4. Finally, all Cincinnati traffic via Xenia. Most would be off L&N or off Southern (both Fruit Growers Express members, by the way). By the time I got interested in investigating this yarn, the ice reefer business was long gone, and the plant wasn't even a coherent foundation. I suspect this site subsequently disappeared under an interstate connector. And by 1981, Conrail's premier reefer trains (all mechanized) were making a temperature monitoring stop in Fort Wayne... but that's another story. Anyone have info? Rick Tipton Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad Columbus Division, 1968 in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:01:58 -0500 Subject: [PRR] First PRR Web Site in 21st Century From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b56dbe092b497b75393270ce0be27738 I could be mistaken, but as far as I know, Mike Molloy's is the first PRR web site to enter the new millennium... http://keystone.alphalink.com.au/pennsy.htm Throughput is great...congratulations! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:12:03 -0500 Subject: [PRR] Millennium Sale on Books and Videos From: Jerry Britton X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: b07c24b4fd215d9977d5fbdaf5e4461c All products HO scale unless otherwise noted. MILLENNIUM SALE Prices in effect now through 6 a.m. Monday, January 3, 2000: Kalmbach books -- 20% off. Highlands Station books -- most 20% off. Morning Sun Books books -- most 20% off. Withers Publishing books -- 20% off. Digital Image Works videos -- 20% off. Penn Valley Pictures videos -- 20% off. Sale prices not applicable towards prior orders or sales. Have a Happy Y2K! Ynot2K? ONLINE STORE We are in the midst of our annual holiday gift-giving sale. See our web site for substantial savings! Our eStore is at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com We accept VISA and MasterCard. Remember, your purchases support the lists and web sites of DSOP.COM and PENNSYRR.COM. Thank you for your support! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jerry Britton, SPF jerry@pennsyrr.com Member, PRRT&HS "Merchandise Service", a division of Desktop Solutions of Pennsylvania, Inc., is a reseller of model railroad and railroadiana products. "MS" is also host to the web site "Keystone Crossings", the domain PENNSYRR.COM, and the mailing lists "PRR-Talk", "Conrail- Talk", and "Reading-Talk". When you purchase through "MS", you are providing financial support to these Internet endeavors. Please visit our eCommerce web site at http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com. ------------------------------Thank you!----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:28:30 -0600 From: John Sheets Subject: [PRR] Re: Eastbound Refrigerator traffic on PRR Lines West X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 0866e84f899ba02fe66c1ad7fdee2038 Yes those ATSF reefers were Santa Fe Reefer Dept....both SFRC and SFRD John RickTipton@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/28/99 10:48:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > johnit@interaccess.com writes: > > << As I recall my days as an Asst. Supt. for Santa Fe, most of the reefers > were > SRFD (Santa Fe) with a sprinkling of others, mostly PFE. >> > > Might that be SFRD, originally for Santa Fe Refrigerator Department? Most of > the Santa Fe ice reefer pics I notice are SFRD, or SFRC (sorry, can't help > you there). > > Anybody here on the Pennsy list have info supporting the following yarn?: > > Supposedly, in the old days, the Fort Wayne ran ice reefers out of Chicago, > and the Panhandle independently ran ice reefers out of both Chicago and St. > Louis. Notice the TP&W connection via Logansport isn't mentioned, but it > will fit right into this tale, which continues: > > Again, supposedly, at some point in time the business outgrew the two little > ice plants in Fort Wayne and (maybe) Bradford. Trains were moving a bit > faster by that time, so it was decided to build a volume icing plant in > Columbus, that could service an entire reefer train in one gulp. This plant > was put up a little east of the St. Clair Avenue Carshops, on the south edge > of the yards, and built of brick (or maybe concrete/steel with brick > curtainwall). > > Now all eastbound ice traffic was routed through Columbus and then eastward > across the Panhandle Division to Pittsburgh. Feed routes included: > 1. All Chicago traffic, including that taken away from the Fort Wayne. > 2. All TP&W traffic, Effner-Logansport-Bradford-Columbus. > 3. All St. Louis traffic. Most probably went St. > Louis-Richmond-Bradford-Columbus, but with enough power or with helpers, > could run via Dayton and Xenia. > 4. Finally, all Cincinnati traffic via Xenia. Most would be off L&N or off > Southern (both Fruit Growers Express members, by the way). > > By the time I got interested in investigating this yarn, the ice reefer > business was long gone, and the plant wasn't even a coherent foundation. I > suspect this site subsequently disappeared under an interstate connector. > And by 1981, Conrail's premier reefer trains (all mechanized) were making a > temperature monitoring stop in Fort Wayne... but that's another story. > > Anyone have info? > > Rick Tipton > Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad > Columbus Division, 1968 > in HO ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: BigBeerBob@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:55:25 EST Subject: [PRR] Re: Catenary poles X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 7b08541d8c420e85a7568acb47798e67 Between Overbrook and Paoli some of the cat poles are "telescoping" pipes, with cables suspended across the tracks to hold the wires. Is this from the original 1915 (or thereabouts) construction, design superseded by the familiar "H" beam structures? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! From: "Walt Prusick" Subject: [PRR] Thanks (and more questions) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 10:18:47 -0800 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 57cf1209c9fc034ea90b87712872dba9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5378.6C8E28A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, Recently asked for info on G29 gondola, the intent being to kitbash two = IHC 50' composite gons into reasonable representation of above. Well = Santa brought me PRR Color Guide for Freight and Passanger Equipment = (Morning Sun Books) and guess what? TWO pics! One taken in 1951 showing = ball and keystone (which is what I need) and one showing later Pennsy = spelled out. The downside is I have a lot of filing/sanding/grinding = ahead as panel/rib count is different and bottom horizontal stiffener = runs full length on G29 (IHC has up turn at the truck). Oh well, in for = a penny, in for a pound. My thanks for the input on Pennsy diesel colors 1952. Guess I will go = with EP20(E7A) in Brunswick (DGLE) and gold 5 stripe and AP20(PA) in = Tuscan Red and dulux 5 stripe. Please if I am in error, tell me before I = fire up the compressor! How does the 'modernizied' Bachman K4s perform? Heard that the 'early' = version can bearly pull itself and two cars along straight and level = track. I know from observation that it looks good, but does it suffer = from the same lack of power/traction? Hope Y2K doesn't bother any of us, and have a Happy New Year Walt Prusick ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5378.6C8E28A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear list,
Recently asked for info on G29 gondola, = the intent=20 being to kitbash two IHC 50' composite gons into reasonable = representation of=20 above. Well Santa brought me PRR Color Guide for Freight and = Passanger=20 Equipment (Morning Sun Books) and guess what? TWO pics! One taken = in 1951=20 showing ball and keystone (which is what I need) and one showing later = Pennsy=20 spelled out. The downside is I have a lot of filing/sanding/grinding = ahead as=20 panel/rib count is different and bottom horizontal stiffener runs full = length on=20 G29 (IHC has up turn at the truck). Oh well, in for a penny, in for a=20 pound.
 
My thanks for the input on Pennsy = diesel colors=20 1952. Guess I will go with EP20(E7A) in Brunswick (DGLE) and gold 5 = stripe and=20 AP20(PA) in Tuscan Red and dulux 5 stripe. Please if I am in error, tell = me=20 before I fire up the compressor!
 
How does the 'modernizied' Bachman K4s = perform?=20 Heard that the 'early' version can bearly pull itself and two cars along = straight and level track. I know from observation that it looks good, = but does=20 it suffer from the same lack of power/traction?
 
Hope Y2K doesn't bother any of us, and = have a Happy New Year
Walt Prusick
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5378.6C8E28A0-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Join our SPF database at http://kc.pennsyrr.com/forms/spf/index.html. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For assistance with the list "PRR-Talk", send the message "help" to "listserv@dsop.com". If problems persist, contact "listmaster@dsop.com". !!NEXT MESSAGE!! Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 13:40:21 -0600 From: "doug.kisala" Subject: Re: [PRR] Thanks (and more questions) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 2aea40b3a4b0d21523644c8af1d8d81c --Boundary_(ID_v+5eCTWEGVcaXXnpOQTl8Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt and the list, I will leave it to abler hands (namely, yours) to tackle the G29 conversion; it sounds like you're going to have a unique model when you're done. As far as the Spectrum K4s engines, here goes. The early releases (from 1989) were dismal. My engine ran well for about a year and then fell apart. Since this was my first K4s from any manufacturer, I didn't know any better at the time. Shortly thereafter, I began having success assembling Bowser kits, and discovered that the Bowser steamers ran far better. Oddly, I have another early run Spectrum K4s (the 5404) that continues to run well for me. Go figure. My first now has a Bowser chassis and Alco Products motor. I have both of the latest Spectrum K4s engines. They run much better, with sprung main drivers and a much heftier chassis. They do not pull as well as the Bowser engines (very little does). As a rough idea of performance, my Bowser K4s engines have hauled a dozen of the Eastern Car Works and Bachmann P70 coaches on 24" curves, while the Bachmann engines lug six cars. Having said that, both engines will pull the size of train I'm comfortable with; six cars. The current Spectrum engines are, like the first release, somewhat innacurate in terms of minor details. While the engine has a stoker screw in the cab, it lacks the stoker underneath the left side of the cab, and the tender is a hand fired 110P70 (ie inaccurate for the post war front end). The engine has the modern front end with the old style marker lights on the smokebox; it's a combination that never existed. Finally, the engine lacks a mechanical lubricator on the fireman's side, just behind the cylinders (So do the Bowser models). None of these flaws are the end of the world and can be corrected easily with a few dollars worth of brass detail parts and some sheet styrene. The Bachmann drivers are a skosh undersize, but they are the postwar web spoke type (each spoke has a tiny cast fillet). The Bowser engine has the correct 80" drivers (vs the Bachmann 76"), but has a long wheelbase. Bachmann's is the correct 14 feet. One other factor; the Bachmann models are DCC ready. Doug Walt Prusick wrote: > Dear list,Recently asked for info on G29 gondola, the intent being to > kitbash two IHC 50' composite gons into reasonable representation of > above. Well Santa brought me PRR Color Guide for Freight and Passanger > Equipment (Morning Sun Books) and guess what? TWO pics! One taken in > 1951 showing ball and keystone (which is what I need) and one showing > later Pennsy spelled out. The downside is I have a lot of > filing/sanding/grinding ahead as panel/rib count is different and > bottom horizontal stiffener runs full length on G29 (IHC has up turn > at the truck). Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound. My thanks for > the input on Pennsy diesel colors 1952. Guess I will go with EP20(E7A) > in Brunswick (DGLE) and gold 5 stripe and AP20(PA) in Tuscan Red and > dulux 5 stripe. Please if I am in error, tell me before I fire up the > compressor! How does the 'modernizied' Bachman K4s perform? Heard that > the 'early' version can bearly pull itself and two cars along straight > and level track. I know from observation that it looks good, but does > it suffer from the same lack of power/traction? Hope Y2K doesn't > bother any of us, and have a Happy New YearWalt Prusick --Boundary_(ID_v+5eCTWEGVcaXXnpOQTl8Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walt and the list,

I will leave it to abler hands (namely, yours) to tackle the G29 conversion; it sounds like you're going to have a unique model when you're done.

As far as the Spectrum K4s engines, here goes.  The early releases (from 1989) were dismal.  My engine ran well for about a year and then fell apart.  Since this was my first K4s from any manufacturer, I didn't know any better at the time.  Shortly thereafter, I began having success assembling Bowser kits, and discovered that the Bowser steamers ran far better.

Oddly, I have another early run Spectrum K4s (the 5404) that continues to run well for me.  Go figure.  My first now has a Bowser chassis and Alco Products motor.

I have both of the latest Spectrum K4s engines.  They run much better, with sprung main drivers and a much heftier chassis.  They do not pull as well as the Bowser engines (very little does).  As a rough idea of performance, my Bowser K4s engines have hauled a dozen of the Eastern Car Works and Bachmann P70 coaches on 24" curves, while the Bachmann engines lug six cars.

Having said that, both engines will pull the size of train I'm comfortable with; six cars.

The current Spectrum engines are, like the first release, somewhat innacurate in terms of minor details.  While the engine has a stoker screw in the cab, it lacks the stoker underneath the left side of the cab, and the tender is a hand fired 110P70 (ie inaccurate for the post war front end).  The engine has the modern front end with the old style marker lights on the smokebox; it's a combination that never existed.
Finally, the engine lacks a mechanical lubricator on the fireman's side, just behind the cylinders (So do the Bowser models).

None of these flaws are the end of the world and can be corrected easily with a few dollars worth of brass detail parts and some sheet styrene.

The Bachmann drivers are a skosh undersize, but they are the postwar web spoke type (each spoke has a tiny cast fillet).  The Bowser engine has the correct 80" drivers (vs the Bachmann 76"), but has a long wheelbase.  Bachmann's is the correct 14 feet.

One other factor; the Bachmann models are DCC ready.

Doug

Walt Prusick wrote:

Dear list,Recently asked for info on G29 gondola, the intent being to kitbash two IHC 50' composite gons into reasonable representation of above. Well Santa brought me PRR Color Guide for Freight and Passanger Equipment (Morning Sun Books) and guess what? TWO pics! One taken in 1951 showing ball and keystone (which is what I need) and one showing later Pennsy spelled out. The downside is I have a lot of filing/sanding/grinding ahead as panel/rib count is different and bottom horizontal stiffener runs full length on G29 (IHC has up turn at the truck). Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound. My thanks for the input on Pennsy diesel colors 1952. Guess I will go with EP20(E7A) in Brunswick (DGLE) and gold 5 stripe and AP20(PA) in Tuscan Red and dulux 5 stripe. Please if I am in error, tell me before I fire up the compressor! How does the 'modernizied' Bachman K4s perform? Heard that the 'early' version can bearly pull itself and two cars along straight and level track. I know from observation that it looks good, but does it suffer from the same lack of power/traction? Hope Y2K doesn't bother any of us, and have a Happy New YearWalt Prusick    
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